dnd-discussion

[marble lion]

Yes but this is not the place for gameplay, just finding groups and discussing dnd

[rough basalt]

Not "here" here, but LFGs are here #find-a-game

Yeah not to be pessimistic but if you set out to change a system you don't know how to run you're gonna have a mess.

[noble pine]

A change I thought about for new players able to win their fights a little easier

[rough basalt]

Don't really need to change any rules for that, just run easy encounters

[marble lion]

Yeah

[rough basalt]

Tho the players might not enjoy being babied

[marble lion]

If you have enemies fight dumber, have less health points etc, it gets easier

Changing rules is rarely needed i think

[noble pine]

What would be easy encounters

[rough basalt]

Encounters that qualify as "easy" on the calculator.
Enemies acting like idiots even if they aren't

[marble lion]

Depends on the specifics of the game. You cant blanket answer that

[rough basalt]

Keep in mind I'd ask the players first

[noble pine]

Can you change the enemies health points for new players

[marble lion]

Yes

You can change what you want if youre the one running the game you are the game

[rough basalt]

If the players come in expecting consequences to matter and for combat to be a threat, then you potentially not so subtly protecting them above table it might lead to some issues.

So talking to players is a pretty core part of the game even before the game starts

[marble lion]

If the players are new, its completely fine to do some tryout fights imo

But you might wanna let them know youll take it easy at first, so they dont get the wrong idea about combat

Or feel coddled too much

[rough basalt]

Yeah.
Babying new players too much can likely lead to issues down the line.

[noble pine]

Are goblins a good enemy for new players

[fossil hollow]

yeah

[rough basalt]

Goblins are probably one of the best people enemies for new players

They're low level enemies, they're recognizable, and you can easily introduce non-lethal consequences for being beaten.

[fair summit]

Also really fun to roleplay as a DM, lil chaotic things 😏

[noble pine]

Oh how many goblins are good to go against new players

[rough basalt]

A couple

The DMG has an encounter calculator.

[fair summit]

Could start with 1 to 1 ratio of players to test out, then add a second wave if necessary

[noble pine]

DMG?

[fair summit]

Heavily depeds on the party level too

[prime pewter]

Question!! Fun animals that are at most one half in CR!! (I'm working on setting up a list for my new Druid)

[rough basalt]

If you're gonna use goblins then probably run Lost Mines of Phandelver

It's a starter adventure which is for new players/dms

[fair summit]

Dungeon Master's Guide

[prime pewter]

I have a Bear, a Giant Frog, and a Giant Spider!!

So far, but since that game hasn't started yet, I may swap them out

[noble pine]

Thanks, I don't have list mines of planhandler probably can't afford it

[harsh hollow]

It was free there for a minute.

[prime pewter]

Wait... Dire wolf...

[harsh hollow]

Before the expansion came out.

[blissful ibex]

My setup at druid 4 is something like; Cat, Octopus, Dolphin, Giant Badger, Deer, Warhorse

[prime pewter]

Cool!

[blissful ibex]

octopus or dolphin could also be lizard for spider climb

giant centipede is also nice

[fair summit]

Bear and Dire Wolf are both CR 1 so if you're looking for 1/2 CR, you've gone a bit over 😛

[prime pewter]

I forgot that I'm a moon druid

[noble pine]

How can I get a free copy of the lost mines

[prime pewter]

I looked at it, and it's hit points seemed lackluster

[blissful ibex]

oh, forgot to ask, 2014 or 2024?

[prime pewter]

2014

[blissful ibex]

yep, disregard everything then

[prime pewter]

Oh sorry

Hm, backwards compatibility tho

The only thing that's not PHB is Hexblood, so I think I could try it

[blissful ibex]

2024 wild shape gives hp based on class level instead of the stablock, and it doesn't drop when you run out of hp

[prime pewter]

Oh thats cool!!

[blissful ibex]

lets you basically just focus on picking good forms for their traits and abilities

[prime pewter]

Scales better methinks, does it also use ur spell dc?

[blissful ibex]

the point of it is it has a climb speed and blindsight in 2024
which together are a rather nice combination for scouting in like caverns and stuff before you can access bat

[prime pewter]

Oh oki

[blissful ibex]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/character-classes#Level2WildShape like here's the info on it in 2024, they also made Wild Companion from tasha's a core feature

[prime pewter]

Oh cool!!

[blissful ibex]

my favorite change was that they basically made it so you prepare forms; makes it so people have incentive to curate a smaller list of stat blocks that they're more familiar with so there's less choice parallasys
4 forms of cr 1/4 or less at level 2
6 forms of cr 1/2 or less at level 4
8 forms of cr 1 or less at level 8, also unlocking flying

also swim speed is no longer level gated, just flying

[silver field]

Wish there was a channel where we can share our mini/character art

[blissful ibex]

#dnd-arts-and-crafts ?

[minor lake]

#dnd-minis

[silver field]

I don't see any

[noble pine]

Any others you recommend

[minor lake]

what do u mean

u might have to take it as a role to see them

[prime pewter]

As a moon druid at level 8, the CR forms would be 2, I think? But yea

[blissful ibex]

that's the progression for standard druid, not moon druid
I play Circle of Preservation c:

[prime pewter]

Ohhh

[silver field]

Ya, no i don't have any of those channels

[blissful ibex]

moon druid is like 1/3 class level

[prime pewter]

Cool!!

[minor lake]

check out id:customize , they're called dnd-arts-n-crafts & dnd-minis

[blissful ibex]

they also get 3x class level temp hp and they can cast their circle subclass spells while in wildshape c:

[prime pewter]

I made the right choice

This is gonna be a very witchy Druid

[blissful ibex]

and they get like one of the better offensive druid cantrips as a class spell as well specifically so they can use it while transformed in 2024 c:

[minor lake]

druids 4 life

LITERALLY LOL haha am i right guys?

[marble lion]

More of a warlock or paladin

[minor lake]

haha...

[blissful ibex]

I main druid/lock c:

[minor lake]

paladins are cool idk anything about warlocks

[blissful ibex]

it's a mess but it's fun

[silver field]

Thanks that helped

[minor lake]

we have a warlock in our party rn actually

[marble lion]

Time for a Cowzlock then

[woven flint]

I love Druids, but I just can't enjoy them in high level games 😔

[marble lion]

Evening ticktock

[blissful ibex]

not too many decent higher level spells sadly >.>

[woven flint]

I feel Druid struggles high levels

[blissful ibex]

good for multiclassing though

[woven flint]

Indeed, especially on Rangers because they have a crap capstone

[umbral girder]

I mean you don’t really get that many high level spells even at high levels

Like slots 6th level and higher are usually only once a day until level 19 and 20

Most of your spells in a game are 5th level and lower

[broken imp]

true, but classes like wizards are way too strong even if they can only cast a few high-level spells

*without dm nerf/ban

[minor lake]

love this idea

[ocean basalt]

Does anyone have an open D&D campaign I can join

I’m new

[umbral girder]

This isn’t a recruiting channel.

#find-a-game is where you go for that.

[ocean basalt]

Ok I couldn’t find that channel

[hushed tiger]

Just click or press the highlighted part in the message.

[feral fulcrum]

If you don't have certain things in id:customize selected, the channels are hidden.

[wanton sorrel]

finally got my dice took about 2 weeks and 2 days to get them

[left mist]

Ive obtained an idea. A warforged stuffed with straw and dressed in lions pelt. An amalgamation of the tin man, the scarecrow and the cowardly lion. But what class??

[fossil hollow]

Beast Master Ranger to add in Dorothy

[left mist]

Genius

[rough basalt]

Eh not really if you aren't ignoring key balance stuff. High level spells are met with serious resistances, high costs, and high saves.

[wanton sorrel]

welp going to make 12 chaotic evil characters

[rough basalt]

And situational uses

[broken imp]

RAI yes, with so many common homebrew nerf on the various spell combos. RAW, no, there's many spell combo that's design to buff characters instead of just trying to hit as hard a possible.

[rough basalt]

Nah. People who nerf spells are often overreacting imo.

Unless we're talking 2014 Forcecage then yeah the '24 change acknowledged it was a mistake and that nerfs were correct

Spell combos and stuff like that can fall apart outside of hypotheticals

[glass granite]

What were the changes?

I’m only familiar with the 2024 version

[fossil hollow]

The ruby material component is consumed after the spell is casted

its also Concentration now iirc

[glass granite]

It wasn’t consumed before?!
And also wasn’t concentration?

[fossil hollow]

no

[broken imp]

not when u have patience, giving everyone in (standard 4p party) the party resistance to every damage type seem to be pretty strong, or trapping enemies forever in a double save combo... etc.

[glass granite]

Well I’ll be damned

[glass granite]

I’d argue that in practice, if the party has enough time to give every member resistance at that level, the threat wasn’t strong enough

Also fairly sure simulacrum wish was patched

[feral fulcrum]

The former is a ninth level spell, and each time you cast it to do that, there's a 33% chance of losing the ability to cast wish.

[rough basalt]

Yeah, once players reach a certain level in my games, their enemies start scrying them if they're known to their enemies.

[broken imp]

not officially

[rough basalt]

2024 Simulacrum's can't cast Simulacrum

[feral fulcrum]

Powerful Wizards yelling at each other to get the heck off their crystal ball network.

[burnt valley]

They really dont unless there's a homebrew ruling barring them from doing what the spell is intended to do

[rough basalt]

Resistances, RNG, LRs, not a white room arena, multiple enemies, monster abiliities

[feral fulcrum]

Whiteroom scenarios tend to fail to hold up when your Concentrating Caster gets punched in the face.

[fossil hollow]

really hard

[rough basalt]

You hold monster the Death Knight? Good job.
The Ghoul just hit you and autoparalyzed you so you drop concentration

And now the Death Knight auto crit smites you into the next life

[fossil hollow]

Cloud Giant hits you with Thunderclap, auto incapacitate

[burnt valley]

You don't engage with Legendary Resistances
RNG fair but you should have high to hit chance atp
Fullcasters will generally have a versatile spell list that isn't confined to just one damage type and most of it will be for control anyway
Monster abilities and white room elaborate?

[feral fulcrum]

That one Sherlock Holmes scene. "Discombobulate."

[rough basalt]

White room is "this will always work" but never considers reality

[burnt valley]

They should be CR20 for this dawg

[rough basalt]

No you cannot fly 120ft in the air shooting the goblin, you're in a dungeon and the ceiling is 10ft up is an example

[fossil hollow]

nah

[rough basalt]

It is a ranged attack so all you gotta do is get in melee and you might be fine

[fossil hollow]

fog cloud to cancel it out

[broken imp]

but u can

[burnt valley]

Its a +12 to hit

[burnt valley]

It doesn't, it only gives it disadvantage

[rough basalt]

And if you cast it again, the old one disappears

[glass granite]

How come?

[fossil hollow]

also gives you advantage because they cant see you

[glass granite]

Fog cloud (assuming neither can see each other) cancels out all disadvantage and advantage

[broken imp]

enough for the old one to use a 9th level slot to cast wish

[rough basalt]

Simulacrums can't cast Simulacrum

[burnt valley]

Move backwards 120ft in the hallway unless that one is somehow blocked too which at that point its just moving the goalpost

[rough basalt]

Wish replicated spells still follow the spell rules. It just removes the casting time and components

[fossil hollow]

bold to assume theres 120 ft of space in most dungeon hallways

[rough basalt]

Ye that

Nah, the hallway is 40ft and you're in the middle so 20ft either way

[burnt valley]

So its a flat roll

[fossil hollow]

Looking at official dungeons literally only giant sized dungeons will have that much space

[glass granite]

Yes

[feral fulcrum]

the 120 ft long cave passage of doooom.

[fossil hollow]

hence cancel out

[broken imp]

no, u make one, it cast wish, u make another, it cast wish, repeat

[rough basalt]

Nope

[burnt valley]

Doesn't change the fact that its a +12 to hit and could do it again

[rough basalt]

A Wish replication is just casting the spell as if you cast the spell but as an action and without components and because your casting Simulacrum, a Simulacrum can't simulacrum.

[fossil hollow]

yeah, double chance to incap you in a turn, or incap two party members. Finally hitting its CR 9

Fee Fie Foe Fuuuu-

[glass granite]

They mean to use the simulacrum to cast wish for, say, resistances

Not for more simulacrums

[broken imp]

no, u cast it, and then it cast wish to grant one party member res in 1 damage type

[burnt valley]

Imo its just a better statblock than most high CR creatures

[glass granite]

It’s to avoid Wish Fatigue

[rough basalt]

They mentioned wish simulacrum chaining before

[glass granite]

Did they?

[fossil hollow]

a lot of 2024 monsters hit that level. Lich and Empyrean can paralyze/stun on a hit respectively, no save too

[glass granite]

#dnd-discussion message
ah this

[burnt valley]

Lich has to do it melee (which they shouldn't be doing) and fair enough for the empyrean since even if they choose to not be stunned they take extra 21 unavoidable damage

[rough basalt]

Liches can teleport, they can afford to melee

Especially for that juicy 16d12 crit damage on the Wizard who thinks he's invincible

[prime pewter]

My Druid has the same Ac as plate armor (only plate armor)

[neat depot]

Okay, I’m looking for elder nerds here. I know I’ve seen player housing before. But I don’t know where I’ve seen it.

Can anyone recall what book or magazine I could find player housing in and what edition?

One of my Sunday groups players wants to a contractor eventually. An we were hoping there way a direction to go in with housing that isn’t bastion rules.

[prime pewter]

Wait nvm

[rough basalt]

There's no official "housing rules" other than Bastions.

[glass granite]

There are very few elder edition players here, so I’d recommend asking in #dnd-elder-editions if you haven’t already

[neat depot]

Not even in previous editions? I could swear I’ve seen something over the years

[rough basalt]

Older editions maybe but not in 5e

Homebrew there's definitely something somewhere

[glass granite]

Which is why they asked for “elder nerds” I believe

And also asked “what edition”

[rough basalt]

Eh

I skimmed it

[neat depot]

I’m new to my hunts of previous editions

[rough basalt]

Google says 1e/2e had some Dragon mags that had such info in them

[prime pewter]

My dm said we'd play the campaign from levels 4 to around 16, and as a druid I'd get one level 9 spell slots at 17. I'm excited to get shapechange eventually

[rough basalt]

Through a small room

[prime pewter]

Shapechange into an adult dragon for true maleficent vibes

[rough basalt]

Enemy stays out of the doorway

[burnt valley]

For no reason whatsoever, ask your DM to have all four elemental genies appear at some point in the campaign (doesnt have to be all of them at once) :)))))

[rough basalt]

Whiterooms are a common issue among "this is broken!" Talks

Cause math can't account for everything in an RNG game ran by a human being.

[unkempt pike]

What do you guys usually do when you can’t think of an idea for a new game?

[rough basalt]

Ponder then give up. Repeat

[knotty pasture]

Define idea, do you mean characters or

Optimization discourse, and anything optimization deems broken (for good reason)

[unkempt pike]

Well my One Piece game is about to end so I’m trying to figure out what I should run next

[knotty pasture]

Naruto game

[rough basalt]

The assumption is that your situation will always be in your full control in these talks and thats what causes the whiteroom argument

[burnt valley]

Star Wars Saga Edition

[rough basalt]

They assume that theyll always be able to sit outside places wish chaining for resistance on all damage

Or that theyll always be able to sit hundreds of feet away with a bow

Nah they mean sitting outside the enemy lair doingit

[knotty pasture]

Its mostly why its a guide rather than something people must follow

Make assumptions based on RAW but be ready to adapt accordingly depending on how much your DM is willing to entertain you

[rough basalt]

Personally id just have the bad guy meteor swarm the PCs hometown while theyre screwing around at home

Good luck getting to him

[limber trail]

Not every adventure is gonna give players the time to cast wish 10+ times. You also have a 33% chance each time to permanently lose access to wish.

[rough basalt]

Maybe every wish cast a city gets meteor swarmed and the bad guy pins it on the party so now theyre pariah's and adventurers are hunting them down to save the land

[burnt valley]

Or shapechange into a genie

[limber trail]

That’s an incredibly solvable issue as a DM

[iron spruce]

Hello Oberoni, long time no see

[stark maple]

i still think its crazy that a dnd character with an 8 in strength can still left 240 pounds without needing to make a strength check

[iron spruce]

I don't understand how this wasn't an issue every day of the adventurers getting all the way to this level

[knotty pasture]

Well its just storytelling in general, very rarely do stories have a true time limit on solving issues

[rough basalt]

He respected them for getting stronger but now that theyre being cowards so hes trying to get them to be respectable again

[burnt valley]

A game with the majority of the rules being "Ask your DM" makes it really easy to move goalposts

[iron spruce]

Sounds like a terrible strategist who'll fold without anyone bothering to plan

[rough basalt]

True but thats the point of it all

[limber trail]

I’m not trying to say there’s not an issue at all with what players can do with downtime, I’m just pointing out that by not giving players that downtime, which is easily done especially at high levels, you can bypass a lot of these theoretical design issues in a practical way

[rough basalt]

DnD isnt being ran by an AI that bends to the players whims, sure you get pushover dms, but not all dms are unwilling to make players have to work for their victory

Putting time limits on stuff isnt homebrew

[knotty pasture]

Even if there is a time limit, can't one just stretch out the time frame

[limber trail]

The bad guy is gonna do X bad thing in three days, we have three days to stop him before that bad thing happens

[rough basalt]

You get 3 ingame days to get through 10 levels of a dungeon full of disintegration traps and amf fields that destroy your simulacrums, good luck cause Orcus will be summoned and he can cast PWK at will, not to mention all the lich's hes gonna have at his side, and his demons

[knotty pasture]

After two short rests its not like the time has to be at sunset for example

So until a literal long rest happens (and even then, considering they're 8 hours), a day hasn't passed

[rough basalt]

bold to assume you're getting a long rest in there

cause it blocks teleportation

[burnt valley]

black room in a nutshell lul

[limber trail]

As the DM you don't need to assume, you can make that a thing

[rough basalt]

nice leomunds, lich sent a cultist to dispel

[knotty pasture]

Eh I'm sure high op guys can figure something out, if they can take down three ||Zariels|| in Descent Into Avernus

[rough basalt]

A demon lord is gonna be summoned, this is a heroic game you signed up for. If you dont wanna participate, the games over

[knotty pasture]

So let it be over

[burnt valley]

I've heard five Zariels is doable too

[knotty pasture]

Probably yes

[rough basalt]

dont see that here

just that 3rd or lower cant go into the hut itself or pass through it

but dispel is just poof

[knotty pasture]

At some point you have to ask, unless this is a challenge run or brainstorming, if you're actively making a campaign to kill off the party

We could simply just not play

[rough basalt]

Leomunds is a magical effect, and thus is susceptible to dispelling

[limber trail]

Leomund's tiny hut is the magical effect that is being targeted

it's just like dispelling a simulacrum or a wall of force

[rough basalt]

this argument was about how DnD won't always be in your favor and so Wizards arent unstoppable cause theres no 300ft in the air to hide, you're in a 40ft room, and the balor can catch you everywhere with its 70ft flight speed, big reach and teleport

[knotty pasture]

I mean sure there's no strictly enforced rules

[limber trail]

the strictly enforced rules are the rules a DM chooses to strictly enforce

[rough basalt]

A DM doesn't have to let you be invincible cause "my math says so"

[knotty pasture]

If a campaign wants us to start at 1 in all stats there's nothing anyone can do about it

[rough basalt]

A DM can and some will put you in tight dungeons where you can't get out of the range of enemies

[lament sapphire]

Huh?

[rough basalt]

they can and will have more than 1 enemy

[knotty pasture]

They don't have to but they could

[opal stone]

Hi I’m new to dnd

[rough basalt]

PCs mess up a lot ime

[fickle heart]

Tbf, your game is pretty easy if you can avoid those types of situations.

[knotty pasture]

The crux of the issue seems to be that optimization assumes RAW when advising people, but most people's tables don't run on RAW 100%

[burnt valley]

#dnd-newcomers and #optimization if you want to adjust something power wise with your character/making it functional if its a martial

[rough basalt]

Its part of being an rng game ran by humans.
Not everyone can or will make the best decisions always

[rough basalt]

"optimization" sometimes assumes bad faith rulings and a large empty plain battlefield which is where a lot of arguments stem from

[opal stone]

I’m looking for items like figures to use in my maches

[knotty pasture]

Which is why even optimization assumes auto bans on certain rulings

[fickle heart]

Not necessarily, no. That just means the DM pulled punches.

[rough basalt]

my last game shouldve erupted into a bloody hellish war but i gave them one additional round to stop a ritual cause I ashamedly pulled a punch

[lament sapphire]

It's almost like the DM is playing the game to have fun with the players too...? It's a conspiracy!!

[fickle heart]

It's exceedingly easy, to the point that it's guaranteed, that the DM can make those types of challenges that the players can't resolve with skill. If anything, it really comes to play culture clash, considering that OSR (Old School Renaissance) resolves this issue by being almost purely skill-based and being exceedingly lethal.

It's all about procedures within dungeons, such as dungeon turns, that makes this even an issue in the first place.

[cerulean monolith]

3-party

[rough basalt]

I think Urizts approach is probably best

Dispel magic the simulacrum then send the caster to the forever box

[woven flint]

You can always just eat your player

[knotty pasture]

We're writing a hate letter to optimizers, duh /s

[fickle heart]

Resolving it with partial luck, obviously. That's why it's a dice game.

[burnt valley]

Villifying optimizers is kinda cringe

[cerulean monolith]

Wait wait wait… you want to resolve outcomes with randomness? In my randomness-based game?

[limber trail]

not pulling punches doesn't mean dropping 300 sul khateshes, it's things like not attacking downed players and spreading damage out arbitrarily to prevent players from going down.

[fickle heart]

There's actually a great recent video on this exact subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyl73XLJWhE

TL;DR: The exact play you're describing comes down to the breakdown in the play pattern that is required for dungeons to work, which also is influenced by the roleplaying aspect of the game.

[rough basalt]

or rolling open so you cant fudge crits

[fickle heart]

It's not that player skill is irrelevant, but that player skill only goes so far.

[rigid oak]

how do i recieve a mods help

[burnt valley]

Unfortunately the DMG encourages it

[cerulean monolith]

I have a write-up on why fudging rolls as a DM is good

[rigid oak]

my friend had a few characters for campaigns and he lost his characters and are not shown in character list

[limber trail]

the DMG encourages DMs to look at both options and choose what's better for them and their group

[lament sapphire]

I can fudge ACs and HPs too

[fickle heart]

In which case, I would implore you to watch the video I linked. This is a symptom of a breakdown in the play patterns of the game.

[prime pewter]

I just had the best idea for a future druid

[fickle heart]

No, it's a play pattern issue.

[prime pewter]

Circus themed

[lament sapphire]

DM has full control to tweak difficulty in a multitude of ways at any time

[prime pewter]

Circle of a Wildfire, kinda themed after the Grimm Troupe?

[cerulean monolith]

1. Does the roll need a certain result to fit the story? If yes, fudge the roll.
2. Would the result of the roll make the game unfun for anyone at the table? If yes, don’t fudge the roll.
3. Are you fudging the roll in the favor of the players? If no, don’t fudge the roll.
4. If you still are unsure, trust your gut.

There are situations where fudging rolls makes the story better

[rough basalt]

I'll never fudge

[lament sapphire]

As a DM, oh no the rolls didn't go my way today... Time to figure out how to roll with it or correct the ship next time.

[rough basalt]

It can ruin a game for me if i find out the dms fudging so i dont wanna do that for others that feel the same way

[fickle heart]

Honestly, what you're describing yourself. "I can bring my full knowledge of all the detailed rules into the game and utilize that, while minimizing the DM's ability to veto things, as my leverage within play." The inverse is that the DM can bring their full knowledge into the game and veto the things you are proposing, because that can be degenerate to play otherwise.

[lament sapphire]

Can someone say that dumber?

[knotty pasture]

If a player can learn all the exploits within dnd's rules, the DM can also do the same to thwart a player's attempts of exploiting the game

[burnt valley]

Then what's the point of investing into player skill?

[rough basalt]

2024 dmg just outright states trying to exploit the system with bad faith rulings is bad player behavior

[feral fulcrum]

All flying hit-squad bowmen for your land bound fighter squad.

[lament sapphire]

A DM can say no we're not enforcing that rule.

[cerulean monolith]

do unto others as you would want them to do unto you

[fickle heart]

Not exactly, no. It's just that you are ascribing issues to the system when issues can exist within the playerbase having differing expectations from the game than the designers.

[limber trail]

When I was a lil baby DM I was not as good at balancing encounters. My own poor encounter design led to encounters which were way too strong, which would have killed the players unfairly. In cases like that, I do not think I was unjustified in pretending some hits were misses. I see them as training wheels for when you as a DM get something really wrong. These days, I'm better at encounter design, and am way more confident running combats, to where I more often roll openly (sometimes even accidentally rolling publicly on my VTT).

[cerulean monolith]

Perhaps we stick to logical arguments rather than ad hominems?

[prime pewter]

Peasant railgun makes no sense

[halcyon forum]

see, the attitude on display here is exactly why discussions about optimisation are always so hostile

[burnt valley]

Another buzzword to dismiss actual mathematical analysis

[rough basalt]

Yes because bad faith rulings is one of the more common issues that can occur at the table

[fickle heart]

Could you elaborate on this from a neutral perspective?

[rough basalt]

More often than not due to poor understanding of the rules or mistakes rather than malice tho

[cerulean monolith]

I think if anyone ever tells their DM that the DM is wrong during a game they’re evil and bad

[fickle heart]

I've seen a lot of discourse (and been a part of it) on both the pros and the cons of the play cultures being put into those buckets, but I will admit that people who only really are familiar with modern play often struggle to understand the attitudes that used to exist as part of TTRPG culture, so have a very limited perspective.

[burnt valley]

*Unintended rules interactions that may cause a kneejerk response from people who aren't into optimisation

[prime pewter]

I want to roleplay in my roleplaying game, I don't want to just optimise

[feral fulcrum]

I think it's perfectly fine to gently correct a mistaken rule or something that was misremebered during a game. If the DM continues to roll with it anyway, that's fine as well.

[burnt valley]

There is no game if the mechanics are optional, you may want a different ttrpg since 5e doesn't support it at all

[knotty pasture]

Or just ttrpg without the tt and g

[prime pewter]

That is not what I said at all

[burnt valley]

Or freeform roleplay lul

[prime pewter]

This is the mindset I like

[fickle heart]

This very clearly misunderstands what cultures of play are actually meant to represent. Said play cultures represent shared attitudes and values that are in the background of how people engage with the game. NT/modern play is often indicated by a heavy reliance on RAW, and that the DM's ability to tweak rules as necessary for the overall play experience is minimized, being seen as a detriment to the experience. At the same time, that same value system is basically the foundation of what TTRPGs were based on, considering that any codifications of rules were based on shared values of what people tweaked and decided was fun.

[prime pewter]

There is also no game without the roleplay. At that point your not playing 5e, you're playing algebra

[knotty pasture]

I mean that's kind of basically games in general

[fickle heart]

I've personally criticized the fact that 5e is significantly worse at actually providing play guidance than it should be, and that's probably the biggest flaw with the system.

[glass granite]

Tbh I never liked people telling others to find a new system just because they prefer roleplay over the mathematics part of the game

[knotty pasture]

What is a game if not a bunch of neatly tidied algebra

[cerulean monolith]

D&D in fact has zero algebra in it

[knotty pasture]

There is, how much emphasis is placed on it is another story

[woven flint]

Its really just basic math :>

I'm still bad at basic math :<

[glass granite]

Dnd is a mix of theatre, math and English.

English is the story writers and character creators who want to create life and express creativity through dnd.

Theatre is the role playing centric players who want to immerse themselves in the world.

Math is those who want to push the mathematics of dnd to the limit, to try to empower their characters by creating intricate designs of efficiency and power.

Anyone who likes any of those things can try out and enjoy dnd, as long as their fantasies can be met by the system.

[cerulean monolith]

relies on the GM to provide a story structure
a car typically relies on its engine to move

[burnt valley]

Exactly

[woven flint]

Chuckled at this, damn you

[glass granite]

Yes, but dnd facilitates roleplay plenty well

[limber trail]

"usually relies on the GM to provide a story structure" It is quite literally the first article in the 2024 DMG that one of the roles of a DM is "Storyteller. The DM crafts adventures, setting situations in front of the characters that entice them to explore and interact with the game world."

[halcyon forum]

this implies there is something wrong with how 5e approaches social encounters/interaction, but its working exactly as most people want it to

[prime pewter]

I can't wait until 8th level where I can wildshape into a giant eagle and use the royalty free hawk sound effect

[glass granite]

Heck yeah

[knotty pasture]

To be devil's advocate we are in the official dnd server, hard pressed to find people actively campaigning against it

[woven flint]

I can't tell you folks how many times I've had to pull out a calculator for simple addition because math was never my strongsuit
It was always reading and writing, though, admittedly I'm rusty on the latter lmao

[knotty pasture]

Back when I whipped out a criticism a pf2e acquaintance of mines pointed out against 5e, and suddenly the server was all "filthy pf2e players, of course they'd think 5e is bad"

[prime pewter]

(... what is neotrad?)

[woven flint]

As someone who plays Pf2e and D&D 5e, I absloutely hate both.
/joking

[prime basin]

pathfinder sounds cool, but im not really sold on it

and it also sounds a lot more complex

[woven flint]

Stupid math games making me do math. mutter mutter

[prime pewter]

Bah humbug

[woven flint]

Awh, Phooey!

[burnt valley]

There's a lot of trap options, Paizo loves restricting players and caster gameplay is being a magic cheerleader

[fickle heart]

Funny thing about this, there's generally no issue taken by many with tweaking rules for the benefit of the players, which is what modern play cares so much about. This is why NT works for these podcast games. In the same vein, NT isn't indicative of optimization, but optimization with how it's being used in this manner is indicative of NT, because it would largely be shot down in older cultures as bad manners.

[prime basin]

Oh I can do math (not that I want to) but I just find pathfinder to be too much

[robust fable]

That does not work in the rules

[prime basin]

also rolling lower on the die is better? what type of weird shenanigans is that

[knotty pasture]

@burnt valley by any chance is it just me or do you feel like 5e's community is eerily similar to tf2 in that regard

[burnt valley]

In what sense?

[knotty pasture]

Casuals wanting to burn down 6s/comp players if they have a chance to

[burnt valley]

Like friendlies vs tryhards?

[glass granite]

DnD ain’t a physics simulator anywho

[knotty pasture]

But replace 6s with optimization and you have dnd

[prime basin]

Creationist bards beg to differ

[woven flint]

Slander!
I simply play a giant barbarian and turn the peasant into the AMMO for the railgun... I'm the railgun, by the way
(Hurls random pedestrains at a Tarrasque)

[prime pewter]

Yea, you don't get more damage for projectiles moving quicker

[burnt valley]

Yes this is a perfect parallel lol, and the root cause are the companies that made them

[fickle heart]

I'm going to paste the entire section on neo-trad in another message because of how long it is. Mods, feel free to delete it if it's too chunky. I just think it's helpful to have in the server as opposed to forcing people to follow a link.

[woven flint]

We need more options for throwing people at other people

[fickle heart]

OC / Neo-trad

This is the only one of the terms that isn't fully an autonym, tho' "OC" can be appended to a "looking for game" post online to recruit people from this culture consistently, so it's closer. I also call it "neo-trad", firstly because the OC RPG culture shares a lot of the same norms as trad, secondly because I think people who belong to this culture believe they are part of trad. You also see this style sometimes called "the modern style" when being contrasted to the OSR. Here's an example of someone who calls it "neo-trad" elaborating a very pure vision of the style (tho' I disagree with the list of games provided as examples of neo-trad at the end of the article). On Reddit, "OC" is often called "modern" as in "the modern way to play" or "modern games".

OC basically agrees with trad that the goal of the game is to tell a story, but it deprioritises the authority of the DM as the creator of that story and elevates the players' roles as contributors and creators. The DM becomes a curator and facilitator who primarily works with material derived from other sources - publishers and players, in practice. OC culture has a different sense of what a "story" is, one that focuses on player aspirations and interests and their realisation as the best way to produce "fun" for the players.

This focus on realising player aspirations is what allows both the Wizard 20 casting Meteor Swarm to annihilate a foe and the people who are using D&D 5e to play out running their own restaurant to be part of a shared culture of play. This culture is sometimes pejoratively called the "Tyranny of Fun" (a term coined in the OSR) because of its focus on relatively rapid gratification compared to other styles.

The term "OC" means "original character" and comes from online freeform fandom roleplaying that was popular on Livejournal and similar platforms back in the early 2000s. "OC" is when you bring an original character into a roleplaying game set in the Harry Potter universe, rather than playing as Harold the Cop himself. Despite being "freeform" (meaning no die rolls and no Dungeon Master) these games often had extensive rulesets around the kinds of statements one could introduce to play, with players appealing to the ruleset itself against one another to settle disputes. For the younger generations of roleplayers, these kinds of games were often their introduction to the hobby. 

I think OC RPG emerges during the 3.x era (2000-2008), probably with the growth of Living Greyhawk Core Adventures and the apparatus of "organised play" and online play with strangers more generally. Organised play ended up diminishing the power of the DM to shift authority onto rules texts, publishers, administrators, and really, to players. Since DMs may change from adventure to adventure but player characters endure, they become more important, with standard rules texts providing compatibility between game. DM discretion and invention become things that interfere with this intercompatibility, and thus depreciated. This is where the emphases on "RAW" and using only official material (but also the idea that if it's published it must be available at the table) come from - it undermines DM power and places that power in the hands of the PCs.

These norms were reinforced and spread by "character optimization" forums that relied solely on text and rhetorically deprecated "DM fiat", and by official character builders in D&D and other games. Modules, which importantly limit the DM's discretion to provide a consistent set of conditions for players, are another important textual support for this style. OC styles are also particularly popular with online streaming games like Critical Role since when done well they produce games that are fairly easy to watch as television shows. The characters in the stream become aspirational figures that a fanbase develops parasocial relationships with and cheers on as they realise their "arcs".

[prime basin]

I think as a barbarian you should be ammo for the railgun as you are probably the most likely to survive it considering your hp

[woven flint]

But I like throwing innocent people at incomprehensible beasts....

[robust fable]

I hate when people bring peasant railgun up when discussing raw. It shows that they have no idea what they are talking about

[timid current]

Well that's why they bring it up here instead of the rules channel I suppose

[prime basin]

way to ruin the fun by telling people that their parasocial relationships with famous dnd characters are weird

[cerulean monolith]

This is a sentence you sent

[prime pewter]

One time a problem player brought it up and for some reason I thought it would be a rustic crossbow. I was disappointed

[fickle heart]

Turns out, in a community of nerds, some people like to be nerds about the community itself

[woven flint]

I'm gonna bring up Peasant Railgun in the rules channel so I can watch them riot, brb /silly

[limber trail]

You can be better

[robust fable]

And there are the people who don't even know what it is. And call 3k commoners vs Tarrasque or Magic Stone "peasant railgun"

[prime basin]

No my intern sent that sentence, sorry i'm now in full control

[woven flint]

YOU of all people have faith in ME?

[limber trail]

No but I feel like I need to say it

[woven flint]

man...
I'm not naming my Pugilists Dog after you anymore

[limber trail]

Ok don’t

[prime basin]

who needs a peasant railgun when you can turn them into ballista ammunition!

[fickle heart]

No, it's not optimization as a whole. It's the specific style of optimization you are referring to.

Turns out, optimization is not a monolith, and has been around for a very very long time.

In the same vein, I know people who also describe themselves as optimizers and largely decry the exact behavior you are espousing.

[prime basin]

Optimization in 1e was taking fireball

[fickle heart]

For sure, in which case we actually have evidence that optimization is not a monolith. Different people engage in it differently.

[cerulean monolith]

Okay

[prime basin]

I usually just call optimization an above average way to build your character

[halcyon forum]

its funny you say stuff like this and have the gall to use "redditor" as an insult.

[feral fulcrum]

If your'e not pre-covering every single tile in a potential encounter with ball bearings or spikes, are you Truly Optimizing?

[fickle heart]

Based on the article, it's referring to a much broader category, specifically based on this:

These norms were reinforced and spread by "character optimization" forums that relied solely on text and rhetorically deprecated "DM fiat", and by official character builders in D&D and other games. Modules, which importantly limit the DM's discretion to provide a consistent set of conditions for players, are another important textual support for this style.

[prime basin]

If you are not standing ontop of one another in a party and making the barbarian drop a stone on the individual below 40 feet in the air you are you truly optimizing?

[fickle heart]

I'm a bit confused what you mean by this. Do you assert that optimization is itself a monolith?

[prime basin]

Anybody willing to share some popcorn for this nerd brawl?

[glass granite]

Naturally. I have this as my quick react

[fickle heart]

I'm assuming that you aren't trying to specifically qualify only certain optimization as "actual" optimization.

[humble cairn]

I don't understand the current argument. Is there a hair that's being split on a subatomic level?

[glass granite]

I stopped understanding a while ago too, which is why I’m just spectating now

[feral fulcrum]

The Optimal Definition of an Optimal Optomizer is being Optimized.

[prime basin]

Were an atom of hydrogen on the surface of the sun right now...and too be honest...I have no idea what they are talking about

[cerulean monolith]

Some optimization is bad. Some is good. Where does that line be drawn, or perhaps does that line even exist? That’s the discussion

[humble cairn]

Well that's obviously subjective, as anything regarding play style is.

[prime basin]

@limber trail please leave the server for the 6-7 stunt you have just pulled

[woven flint]

Knome is our beloved goober

[limber trail]

if he gets to optimeower, I get to do that

[humble cairn]

Why does this remind of of "dweomer" which is a word I learned from D&D?

[knotty pasture]

I'm only spectating because I draw the line between expressing myself and caught up in astroturfing

[prime basin]

"There are two wolves inside of me"

[glass granite]

I thought you were supposed to be the goofy one

[woven flint]

Owoptimizuwur

[feral fulcrum]

Not to be confused with the Dwemer I presume?

[woven flint]

Not the damn dwarves...

[humble cairn]

No, but both are related to dwarves I think?

[cerulean monolith]

Symbul’s Synostodwoemer is my favorite spell name

[burnt valley]

There's nothing inherently wrong with it

[woven flint]

I just had a thought...
something about... digging a hole
and eating rocks

[humble cairn]

Dweomercraft being the kind of enchantment dwarves didn't hate in Faerun lore.

[knotty pasture]

Unless we're using dnd's version of the Rocket Jumper, we're all metagaming

[prime basin]

I mean theoretically you could be putting others at risk for making your con score low

not just yourself

[feral fulcrum]

Apperently it's got ties to Old English and more strongly to Old Norse (Which loosely translates to Dwarf Talk, in, apperently?)

[knotty pasture]

Freedom of expression and personal desire >>> social etiquette

[prime pewter]

True story! A friend once dumped con in a game I was in

[humble cairn]

But it's not for everyone. I've played with enough people who do not care about this and have fun in other ways.

[prime pewter]

She had twenty-something hit points at level 6

[feral fulcrum]

That reminds me, I hate the Jumping rules.

[humble cairn]

Optimizing is one valid play style. But it's not everyone's play style.

[prime basin]

Lowkey cooking

[halcyon forum]

there is a difference between trying to get good at a game and trying to break it

[prime pewter]

To be fair, she was a druid, so it was kinda okay

[halcyon forum]

there is no game if you dont house rule away the "exploits"

[prime pewter]

*Moon druid

[humble cairn]

Or play with people who just don't care to exploit anything.

[burnt valley]

See ya myowwa

[prime basin]

USER ERROR:
ERROR REASON: This individual has just lied

[fickle heart]

The key is that an individual doesn't necessarily get neatly slotted into an individual bucket, and they can actually be part of multiple. (The article touches on this.)

On that note, people can have different tolerances and even definitions of what constitutes DM fiat. Especially when we consider that how people actually run RAW is entirely different from each other. In that vein, I know optimizers who consider trying to engage in the game with the intent to utilize "loopholes" that are used as part of chargen as bad form and not in the beneficial spirit of optimization.

[glass granite]

Cya

[woven flint]

Regardless of how you all play
Make sure to optimize drinking water and eating food everyday 🧐

[cerulean monolith]

So… constructs, amirite?

[prime basin]

So true, optimize hitting the gym at least three times a week as well

[humble cairn]

Ooh we should do a monster creation challenge where people suggest different parts of the monster.

[limber trail]

love constructs. My level 16s are up against a Colossus this week. Hope I kill them.

[glass granite]

I want 5 legendary resistances!

[prime basin]

I don't think this would go very well

[humble cairn]

Like this:
Monster Creation Challenge! A different person suggest one of each of the
following!
Creature Type: Monstrosity
Preferred Combat Tactic: Grab and run using environment
Theme 1: shark with tentacle legs
Theme 2: revenge

[burnt valley]

Monster ability: Whenever they are hit with an attack roll, the attacker takes 20 flat Force damage per hit

[cerulean monolith]

Creature Type: Monstrosity

[prime basin]

Theme: Shark creature with squid tentacles for legs

[woven flint]

Theme: Revenge

[limber trail]

Combat tactic: Grab & run / use environmental effects to do the work for them

[humble cairn]

That's not one of the things I ask?

[glass granite]

Theme: gravitational pull
Or just gravity

[prime basin]

too late, the themes are all filled up

[glass granite]

Shame
I need better initiative

[cerulean monolith]

thank you for your helpful contribution to this discussion

[humble cairn]

Wow that was fast, hol'up gotta cook.

[prime basin]

So a vengeful shark creature with tentacles for legs that abducts its victims before eating them and is a monstrosity

[still plover]

I already have a picture in mind and it's a nightmare.

[prime basin]

Has anyone else seen the sharktopus movies? (obviously they are bad)

[humble cairn]

Wait, revenge got in before gravity

[glass granite]

Yes
I was outsped

[woven flint]

Has anyone ever heard of the Dark Lord (Dread of Domain Lord)
Draga Salt-Biter?
He's pretty cool, he's a Wereshark and worshipper of Umberlee

[limber trail]

It would be cool, given everything, if this monster specifically tries to drag creatures underwater and drown them

[lavish flame]

Is part 2 of this "Everybody pitch this monster"?

I'm calling it the Megalodoctopus

[prime basin]

You get to name the creature as a sign of good will

[humble cairn]

I an going to create my version, but everyone else is free to do one if they want

No I'm gonna name it!

[prime basin]

Wrong

[humble cairn]

But feel free to make your own version

[prime basin]

Whenever you use this creature btw, you must let us know how it went

[woven flint]

Maybe it deals more damage to the creature that damaged it last as part of the revenge theme, idk lmao
I'm too tired to be really creative

[prime basin]

Maybe it gets advantage on the attack?

[woven flint]

Advantage AND more damage >:))

[lavish flame]

I like the idea of biting and dragging as well as tentacle-grabbing for this monster

[prime basin]

Also this creature should solo a astral dreadnought

[knotty pasture]

Normal attacks would require the enemy to make a saving throw, failed saving throws would debuff the enemy with Bane

[prime basin]

if hit by the sharktopus tentacle the creature takes its hit point maximum worth of piercing damage

[humble cairn]

Creature Type: Monstrosity @cerulean monolith
Preferred Combat Tactic: Grab and run using environment @limber trail
Theme 1: shark with tentacle legs @prime basin
Theme 2: revenge @woven flint
"Mr. Nibbles"
When Dr Octavia Moreau of the Simic Combine was killed in a raid by a rival faction, no one expected that her escaped pet would stay to defend her lab, but the monstrous combination of shark and octopus uses its ability to squeeze into the various tubes of the abandoned laboratory to ambush looters, punishing all who would desecrate his beloved master's sanctum.

[lavish flame]

hehe, Octavia Moreau. thats fun

[woven flint]

YEAHHH

[prime basin]

one of the creatures made in the existence of dnd

[humble cairn]

Grabbing at reach and pulling into flooded tunnels is scary.

[prime basin]

Imagine being abducted and drowned by a half-shark half-octopus named Mr. Nibbles

[humble cairn]

Give it blind sight so it can see in dark water.

[prime basin]

Pennywise has killed someone with this exact fear exactly like this at some point

[prime basin]

make sure it gets advantage on perception checks

[maiden basin]

What’s everyone thoughts on Foundry VTT? Is it worth investing in as a DM or should I stick to R20?

[humble cairn]

Yall are free to use my format to play this game

[prime basin]

I prefer foundry more but roll 20 works fine imo

[livid valve]

I crave violence could someone share a war hammer with me and point at something I promise I'll bring it back- just...mostly broken

[prime pewter]

Guys question: how boring is land druid really?

[knotty pasture]

It gets the job done

You're going Land Druid for Web anyways which is like the best level 2 spell

[prime pewter]

Which druid has the best witch flavor? (Besides spores, I tried it and was not a fan)

[knotty pasture]

Wildfire maybe, reflavor the fire spirit as a will o the wisp

[prime pewter]

Cooking!!

I like wildfire, I was thinking up a future character concept inspired by the grimm troupe

[prime basin]

I find it to be boring and meh

I find druid subclasses as a whole to be meh which is why i think i'd only play a homebrew subclass

[prime pewter]

Should I give spore druid another try?

[prime basin]

Spores is one of the best ones from what i've heard so you could. I also have a homebrew subclass I made if you wanna try that out

[burnt valley]

Shepherd is dead with the loss of conjure animals

[prime pewter]

I'll give it another try

[knotty pasture]

Give it a proper burial

[prime basin]

can always summon elementals

[humble cairn]

Witch is very broad, any druid works, can you narrow the flavor down?

[subtle thorn]

i wanna join a party

[prime pewter]

Which is more interesting spore or moon?

I'm leaning towards spore

Also i figured out what I was doing wrong

I wasn't using wildshape
Like at all
I didn't even pick out animals

[prime pewter]

I actually don't really know... I'll work it out as I go

Wait I can use this cool lizardfolk art I have!!

Lizard wizard (druid)

[glass granite]

I like spore more, it’s my fav

[stark maple]

Yo where’s 3rd party talk

[glass granite]

#third-party

[stark maple]

Do monsters get lair actions anymore?

[prime pewter]

Question: what playstyle benefits the druid the most?

Spore

[glass granite]

Well spores likes melee a lil more, but usually hang back and blast, while supporting as needed

[prime pewter]

Thanks!!

Should I take Polearm Master or Healer?

[glass granite]

Between the two, definitely PAM

[knotty pasture]

Did you not use Symbiotic Entity?

[prime pewter]

I didn't get a chance

[hoary totem]

I mean if you were using all your wildshapes on Symbiotic Entity you'd very rarely actually use wildshape for wildshape

[knotty pasture]

?!?! You just use it at the start of a fight

[prime pewter]

Wait no I used it

I thought you meant the zombie one

[knotty pasture]

Symbiotic feels even more versatile than Wild Shaping to an animal to the point where I'd only actually Wild Shape to an animal if I need to fly or scuttle down a narrow space

No I mean the one where you get a ton of temp hp + increased melee damage

[hoary totem]

At this point wildshape might as well be a moon druid subclass feature

[prime pewter]

Yea its cool. I was level 10 so 40 thp

[knotty pasture]

Ngl yes, I think I Wild Shaped into an animal no more than 5 times in a T2 campaign as Spores Druid

[hoary totem]

How to play a shepherd druid without just making the game a massive slog?

Asking for a friend (his boyfriend is also playing as a devotion paladin)

[still plover]

Know your summons, have your statblocks and tokens ready, don't get fancy. Setting up complex nets of potential OAs will get the table rolling their eyes halfway through. Summon, attack. Or summon, bodyguard.

[hoary totem]

what's an OA?

[glass granite]

Opportunity attack

[hoary totem]

Our table coincidentally (we have no real playing experience, we just chose based on flavour) ended up choosing all casters except the rogue who still can't decide between phantom and arcane trickster

[whole lily]

I feel like I’m in another world reading alr from not understanding anything

[hoary totem]

drop by #dnd-newcomers !

[whole lily]

Gotcha

[dire fable]

Bum megumi is truly cursed

Yall yesterday me and my players decided to play, one of my players didn't have a portrait ready so we gave him an image of megumi as a temp as a joke

He didn't get anything ABOVE 5

He somehow made 2 identical pigeon nests, Next to each other!

He wanted to make a tent!

He only started getting good rolls once he stopped using the megumi portrait

[clear trellis]

can i use empowered metamagic after i roll? or does it have to be before i roll

[burnt valley]

That bum is a living curse

[severe rampart]

he truly is... a curse

Anyway, how is everyone doing this fine evening?

[glass granite]

I believe my existence is satisfactory

[humble cairn]

Ooh you're on my side of the globe, then!

[glass granite]

Mine too

[humble cairn]

Wait that makes sense. We're the only ones up to chat.

[swift juniper]

theoretically, what would a 20th level spell look like, since it only goes up to 9th level, and we know that 12th level was enough to fundamentally change the rules of reality

[hot marlin]

It is well beyond theory

[undone rain]

Nuke ig

[limber trail]

Nukes are well below 20th level

Arguably meteor swarm is approaching nuke power levels

[humble cairn]

Honestly it's a bit meaningless.

What would it look like if a god were double omnipotent!?

[swift juniper]

we theorized that a 20th level fireball would be the equivilant of the big bang

[humble cairn]

It doesn't really mean anything, just trying to put numbers beyond where numbers apply.

[atomic torrent]

I think not a modern 1 megaton warhead is far more destructive than any meteor swarm. And such indiscriminate weapons are unlikely to be used by "Heroic" adventurers.

[humble cairn]

At certain levels of power what do you want to do? Rewrite reality to add a fourth spatial dimension?

Reverse the relationship of causality and time?

[noble pine]

How are Dragonborn's?

[still plover]

What's the context?

[swift juniper]

true. at one point, it becomes kind of pointless.

[humble cairn]

Yes, the question doesn't mean anything.

[swift juniper]

there's a reason why it only goes up to 9th level. and even then the 9th level spells are terrifyingly powerful

[undone rain]

Idk when the campaign has to end for shits and giggles

[still plover]

Might as well ask what happens when you reach Warp 10.

[noble pine]

I don't have player handbook in front of me what are Dragonborn's

[swift juniper]

maybe you can cast wish without the chance to lose it

[still plover]

Humanoids with draconic characteristics such as scales, fangs, sometimes horns and tails, and the ability to project a breath weapon style attack depending on their specific heritage.

[humble cairn]

Asking what a 20th level spell would do is the same as asking what a 100th level spell would do.

[undone rain]

I cast wish, i wish for more fireball

[swift juniper]

human but more zuckerberg

[still plover]

Here's some more about them: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/character-origins#Dragonborn

[swift juniper]

you can never have enough fireball.

[glass granite]

I feel like a 20th level spell would be “I cast Disable Collisions”

[swift juniper]

fall through the floor

[glass granite]

Well, a floor would struggle to exist when it’s struggling to collide with itself

[humble cairn]

Oh so everything clips into everything else and you reverse the Big Bang?

[glass granite]

Sounds bout right

[undone rain]

If you make a tortle an artificer with the artillery subclass, you could have potentially made blastoise in pokemon

[still plover]

Subatomic soup.

[humble cairn]

I feel it would be interesting to cast "Reverse Causality" so that effects came before causes in time.

[still plover]

Red Dwarf did it.

[glass granite]

Or “Anti-Entropy”, so all things move towards order rather than disorder?

But alas, the 20th level spell isn’t omnipotent

As the spell “Fix Scheduling” is, unfortunately, far too powerful to exist

[humble cairn]

Easier to make a pocket timeline where time only advances when everyone is in it and ready to game. Only issue is you'll have one person who is suddenly geriatric at the second session and then they're gone.

[still plover]

Ah, play by post?

[glass granite]

-# this has gone over the computing capabilities of Nugget.

[humble cairn]

Sadly, yes.

[glass granite]

Does pbp even have sessions

[humble cairn]

They can, kinda.

It runs by scenes and chapters.

[halcyon forum]

I think some pbp games have sort of session times where everyone is expected to be online and available to participate in a scene?

[vague meadow]

Ok so I’ve learned that wizard, and even more so scribe wizard, is the most expensive class to play in the game 😭

A 4th level spell costs me 300 gold to buy and 200 to copy into my book, and scribe’s need a ton of extra spells for damage types to swap around 💀

[reef tundra]

It’s to make up for not buying equipment, I heard

Like, other classes (are supposed to) spend money on armour, weapons, etc, but wizards don’t need to buy any of that

So the cost for copying spells should make up for it. Although I’ve rarely had a wizard in my party so I’m not certain if it does

[vague meadow]

Well my current shopping list of spells up to 4th level will run me about 2000ish gold to buy and copy into my book, and each level of spell costs a LOT more than the last so idk

Don’t need weapons, but I have a level in cleric for shield + armor profs so I’ll be getting those too, or hopefully just finding some at some point lol

Tho instead of a magical weapon, I need an arcane grimoire for +1,2,3

Anyhow basically yeah wizards guzzle gold 🤣

[reef tundra]

Oh lord I have severely underestimated the cost for higher level spells

[vague meadow]

3rd costs me 300 to buy and copy into my book, 4th coats 500, and im not excited for 5th 😭

[reef tundra]

Dayum

[blissful dragon]

Do you think there is abyssal fried chicken in sigil ?

[tardy bronze]

i just rolled a nat 20 on my first ever combat roll W

And then rolled max damage

And then next turn rolled max damage without crit

[limber trail]

hell yeah, that's awesome

[undone rain]

Why need a gun when eldritch blast exists

[noble pine]

I know in 5 edition there not a actual knight class but in your own campaign can you have one

[idle oar]

I mean a fighter with a noble background kind of hits typical knight vibes

And that's from official D&D materials

[limber trail]

Paladin too, also hits a sorta knightly vibe in a slightly different way

[hollow hedge]

Is that the tin man from the wizard of Oz?

[limber trail]

....I would be lying if I said it wasn't

[reef tundra]

Didn’t tin man have a gun?

[hollow hedge]

Did he?

[limber trail]

did he????

I mean my current PC has a gun so I guess so??

[reef tundra]

I swear I saw a screenshot from the original film that had tin man with a gun

I might be tripping

[noble pine]

What type of daragon would be good ally of the adventurers

[reef tundra]

I say any metallic one

[tropic plank]

Any of the metallic ones

[hollow hedge]

And here's the sugar on the cream I now have a glock 19

[reef tundra]

But out of the metallics, I’d say silver or gold

[idle oar]

Probably depends on the setting, the location where the party meets this ally, and then whatever the story purpose of having this ally is.

[reef tundra]

I heard copper dragons are quite brazen at times

[tropic plank]

Chromatic dragons are the ones who follow Tiamat and therefore all mostly evil

[limber trail]

so he doesn't but funnily enough, scarecrow does

[reef tundra]

Aha, I knew it was at least one of them

[noble pine]

Ok think I'll check my monster guide book

[true raft]

How do I get into d&d!

[cosmic roost]

Welcome to Adventure!

Visit #learn-to-play for everything you need to get started!

• [What is D&D?](#learn-to-play message)
• [How does it work?](#learn-to-play message)
• [Where do I join?](#learn-to-play message)
• [Frequently Asked Questions](#learn-to-play message)

Quick Links

Basic Rules | Introductory videos | Create a character

[livid slate]

Does thirsting blade / another double attack feature stack?

[fiery perch]

How would you imprision a spellcaster without being inhumane using only RAW (0 homebrew)

Without being inhumane means no being gagged 24/7 and no being in manacles 24/7

[severe rampart]

Marry them and force them to live with their mother in law

[idle oar]

Put them in an anti magic zone

[fiery perch]

it's concentration and 1 hour gng

not a permanent prision solution

even with circle magic you gotta chose between keeping concentration on or big area

[kind bramble]

just noticed outlander background isn't available in 2024 rules. but now I have no idea what background to use cuz the character's whole thing is she's an outsider in an unknown world. we're talking from an isolated nation of warrior women (amazonians) where the mainland is in the 1960's in terms of tech while my character's island is basically still in the classic fantasy, and also has no idea how to act around men. ideas on backgrounds that fit an outsider character in 2024? really sucks they removed the outsider background outlander. I know backgrounds don't need to have anything to do with your backstory but I prefer when they fit

[idle oar]

With this additional information which you didn't provide at first, then you can't do it without gags/binding.
Short of being able to put and keep them in an area with a permanant anti magic field, you're left with gags and binding.

And removing focuses and components (but removing those doesn't absolutely prevent casting).

[still plover]

Extra attack features do not stack generally, far as I know.

[livid slate]

Fair.

[hollow hedge]

Bro, they said without being inhumane

[still plover]

Two options:

Pick one that has the features you want. Remember it doesn't matter which bit of your character grants a proficiency, only if you have it or not.

Use the custom background and stitch it together yourself.

[severe rampart]

I am a pleasure to be around, thank you very much

[hollow hedge]

This is already becoming torture-

[kind bramble]

I am considering soldier out from the description of it and a society of warriors train since birth

[severe rampart]

Who wouldn't like a bardic spouse

[fiery perch]

I figured it out

In a bit more modern / sci-fi setting you can just put them in a coma till their sentence is over

[wraith sigil]

Add anti spell/magic weapons to the sessions

Its time of him to face npc that makes him powerless😤

[fiery perch]

I am looking for more permanent solutions

[idle oar]

I thought you said without being inhumane? Being put into a coma could be considered inhumane.
I think being put into an anti-magic zone is more humane then that.

[limber trail]

If you have the resources for it, I could see prisons built in dead magic zones

[still plover]

Athletics, Intimidation, Savage Attacker and bumps for your physical stats. That work for you?

[wraith sigil]

Anti magic prisons

[fiery perch]

Brother

1. I should've mentioned this but the entire world's level cap is 14 (including NPCs and PCs)
2. Even if there was no Cap the state will go broke keeping that maintained for all spellcasters

[fiery perch]

Least inhumane way I can think of

[limber trail]

Dead Magic Zones can exist regardless of level, they’re a world feature

[kind bramble]

she is a glaive focused barbarian so pretty good

[fiery perch]

Where do I find source material on them 🙏

[limber trail]

DMG 24 mentions them as an environmental effect

[fiery perch]

I will read it - thank you

[limber trail]

It’s pretty simple - an area where magic doesn’t function, as if under the effects of the antimagic field spell (although it’s not a spell)

Actually I may worldbuild a magical prison like this

[still plover]

A comet from the Astral, a blasted crater of black glass where nothing grows and the ground itself is a hazard, and huddled in the center a squat and forbidding fortress.

[undone rain]

Named my kenku Bowstring Flick hows that sound

[severe rampart]

Are they a ranger?

[undone rain]

Rogue but they were an archer in a war

And have a shortbow

[limber trail]

awesome

[severe rampart]

I hope the name is a John Wick reference

[undone rain]

It is now

[limber trail]

"That Nobody..... is Bow Flick"

[undone rain]

"I saw him stab a guy, with a stick"

Hes gonna be a morally grey character, he needs money after his home was destroyed from the war but hes not exactly evil

[severe rampart]

I have doomed an entire campaign with a single comment, fear me for I am the bard

[limber trail]

(A note when portraying morally grey: It's generally not an issue to play but remember to stick with the party's alignment broadly.)

Advocate for morally grey actions of course, play to your heart's content, just when push comes to shove, you're part of the group, make a character who can work with them

Which I only say because it's a trapping some morally grey characters can fall into

[undone rain]

Of course, i dont want to ruin anything for the party

[still plover]

The man's after money to rebuild his life. He's not going to steal the charity box, but what's the harm in exaggerating the expense report a little, asking for a little extra?

[undone rain]

He hears they need a guy who can sneak, he joins. He gets allies and money

[wraith sigil]

I saw him stab a guy with a feather

[undone rain]

The party needs money, he needs money

He joins them and he has help to get said money

[undone rain]

Yeahhh like that

[humble cairn]

More of a #rules question, but no. It should say that in the feature itself.

[undone rain]

And kenkus can be great for distraction since they can mimic voices

[hot marlin]

Or have a parrot familiar

Actually, is that even an option?

Because I could imagine a wizard or sorcerer from Calimshan or some other places dressed in extravagant colourful dresses with a parrot familiar.

[tardy bronze]

i just bought ALL the divinity games

[main maple]

How many sets of dice do you have for the game?

[limber trail]

there's not necessarily a stat block for it. I doubt it'd be hard to homebrew mind you, but nothing exists as of now

[hot marlin]

Yeah, I guess mechanically there is no difference between a parrot and a raven

Like, which stat would you even change?

[limber trail]

i fully didn't even remember that a raven stat block exists

but yeah that'd work

[uneven imp]

How do I get stats? I need a character sheet made desperately an idk how to do it

[hot marlin]

You just follow the instructions on character creation in the PHB.

[limber trail]

Generally, your GM should be able to help you make your character sheet, especially if it's your first time making a character

[hot marlin]

You could use D&D Beyond, but I have many ethical reasons to avoid this website personally.

[uneven imp]

I’m using a character sheet app. What dice do I roll for all 6 stats. I’m an eladrin artificer i think

[knotty pasture]

I think you should stick to standard array or point buy unless you're in a rolled stats campaign

[uneven imp]

What does standard array mean (I can just google that)

[knotty pasture]

You build your character's stats based on the following numbers:

15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8

[limber trail]

So for each stat, you wanna roll Four d6s (6 sided dice). Then, you take the three highest rolls, add them up, and that's a stat. You repeat this six times, and those are your stats. You can assign them to abilities in any order

[uneven imp]

Oooh okay

[knotty pasture]

For point buy you'd start with 27 points (which adds up to the same stats as standard array, except you have more freedom in choosing the exact numbers you want)

[hot marlin]

If you're using the standard array for an artificer, your stat priority should be intelligence, constitution, dexterity, wisdom, strength charisma. Maybe.

It's not the only option, just the simplest one.

[urban bolt]

Guys I have literally never struggled this hard for a character backstory / personality!!! What kind of person do you imagine would be a sniper build warlock?

[hot marlin]

Start with something more basic. "sniper build" tells you nothing. It's a warlock, alright. So someone who sought a pact.

Which species? Which background? Which culture?

[uneven imp]

I did my character and I got introduced as a lump that fell out a dead monster and I’m now naked in a coffin 😭

[humble cairn]

Want to go on over to #character-discussion and workshop it?

[urban bolt]

Best introduction ever

[naive cedar]

Iconic

[vale sage]

....before anyone asks idk why my thing says potential spammer, im not and i got reported by discord only a few days go, i'm trying to fix it but idk what to do

[undone rain]

Reminds me of that avantris clip, "hi everybody with dnd beyond you too can stumble around for 5 minutes to make a simple ability check"

[still plover]

Really? I should recalibrate my expectations, huh.

[naive cedar]

Discord moderation has gotten weird tbh. I’ve seen other people complain about being labeled potential spammers as well. Not sure what causes it

[severe rampart]

joined a campaign 15 minutes before it started and made a quick halfling rogue, right now I am using a poor png of Chilchuck as a substitute for a token.

[undone rain]

With dnd beyond youll be just as unprepared for your turn as you are with pencil and paper

[naive cedar]

Whats the best website to use?

[umbral girder]

For?

[naive cedar]

For dnd

[umbral girder]

That doesn’t narrow it down.

[naive cedar]

Alright, what’s the best website to use for playing DND campaigns

If there is one

[livid slate]

Whats a good way of running horror where the players are just like normal scared, not scared for there lives

[livid slate]

(Or maybe a mix?)

[umbral girder]

That’s still very vague. It’s a matter of what entails in that campaign.

[naive cedar]

I’m just wondering because people are saying dndbeyond is bad

[livid slate]

Depends on what you mean, combat , general dnd, or roleplay/maps

[livid slate]

I personally use roll20 if it's battles you mean

[umbral girder]

Yeah dnd really is just a character sheet, talking, and sometimes dice

[severe rampart]

don't even need dice, get yourself a big ol' wheel, and that'll do the trick

[umbral girder]

You could probably just flip a coin too. Just something for a random answer.

I think the 2014 DMG even had rules to remove dice all together

[naive cedar]

I wonder if there are any roleplaying systems that remove dice

that would be interesting

[umbral girder]

Yeah plenty.

[humble cairn]

Remove? There are some that don't use dice at all, if that's what you mean.

[umbral girder]

Hundreds probably

[hot marlin]

Many! Recentlly, I played Good Society which has no dice

[naive cedar]

Yeah that’s what I mean since DND was the first popular one and heavily uses dice

[umbral girder]

Hunt is a pretty good one too

[humble cairn]

Dice aren't intrinsically included in order for something to count as a TTRPG.

[naive cedar]

Does it play better with no dice or is it the same but different?

[humble cairn]

Amber is a diceless system.

[umbral girder]

This is moving more towards #non-dnd-topics

[hot marlin]

It's complicated. I'd advise googling it. It's a game set in phases meant to mimic a Jane Austen novel

[naive cedar]

Oh that’s sounds really cool. Ty

Going back to DND, has anyone tried playing DND without dice?

[umbral girder]

Yeah it’s alright

It’s basically a “check if your passive stat passes to DC” method

[vale sage]

also cause im saying this cause i have no idea who messaged me back about the discord thing, all it says is i broke "Discords rule for spam" which i have 0 idea what that's from or how to get it off my account

[umbral girder]

So you work on ways to boost it.
Advantage and Disadvantage give +5/-5 to the passive check too

When it comes to any dice roll it’s just “use the average”

[idle oar]

Contact Discord and work with them to deal with the situation

[naive cedar]

That makes sense

[umbral girder]

It’s a neat way to play, I’ll give it that.

[naive cedar]

You lose the randomness but it’s probably less work

[umbral girder]

It mainly becomes “how can we get advantage or give disadvantage”

[still plover]

But where are the critical fumbles? /j

[vale sage]

i've sent my request but so far nothing and that was back when this all started, it's still here tho so idk what to do with it now

[naive cedar]

Or the classic “I’m gonna make sure I get the highest roll possible with all kinds of buffs- oh I rolled a nat 20…”

[noble pine]

How can I change character level in creating characters in dnd beyond app

[umbral girder]

#ddb-support

[idle oar]

No one but Discord can help you resolve it so you'll just need to be patient and work with Discord to address it. I'd recommend not direct messaging folks that are not in your friend list as that certainly won't help the situation.

Anyway back to D&D

[still plover]

It's on the class screen, pretty sure.

[undone rain]

Cant wait to use my kenku rogue

[umbral girder]

Thank you John Paladin for your Rogue /jk

[limber trail]

John Paladin, the Soldier Rogue o7

three classes going on there really

[umbral girder]

Don’t worry soldier is just a background

[limber trail]

it's very fighter coded

[noble pine]

What is a good class for a Dragonborn

[hoary totem]

... Whatever you want to play! Once again: RACES ARE JUST MODIFIERS.

[humble cairn]

All classes work with all species, pick the one you think is fun.

[noble pine]

Looking for some suggestions

[humble cairn]

Try a barbarian!

[umbral girder]

Commonly Fighter and Paladin was their association on release.

Of course many like to tie them to anything Draconic.

So a Cleric or Warlock of powerful dragons and dragon gods.
Druids and Rangers to match the natural magics of draconic power.

Monk and Rogue because they are awesome design wise with Dragonborn frequently.

So on and so forth.

The big obvious one being Draconic Sorcerer.

My personal strategy is look at the PHB art and say "Ok I want to build that guy as a PC"

[noble pine]

What is draconic sorcerer part of

[umbral girder]

Part of?

[noble pine]

And what rules are better to use for character creation

[umbral girder]

Sorcerer and the Draconic Sorcerer are both core rules in 2014 and 2024.

Personally I think 2024 is a lot better as a player. But that can depend on your group.

[noble pine]

Ok

[hot marlin]

Don't go on a rant about why you hate sorcerer class design, don't go on a rant, don't go on a rant. Have some willpower Incubus buddy

[severe rampart]

I love Halflings.

I rolled two nat 1s which were then invalidated by the "Luck" feat

then, I rolled two TWENTIES (dirty)

[hoary totem]

RIP Stone Sorcerer
RIP Phoenix Sorcerer
RIP Sea Sorcerer
RIP Strixhaven Sorcerers

[bronze wave]

has anyone here played PBP? How is it

[crimson gulch]

So very slow

[umbral girder]

Very, very slow

[crimson gulch]

In the amount of time it took 3 adventuring days I ran the campaign book twice

[umbral girder]

The immortal snail will catch up with them

[bronze wave]

well looks like im not going to be trying that then

[humble cairn]

I love the concept because I like writing, but the pacing really bothers my brain.

[umbral girder]

Was gonna start my Dalelands game next Saturday but I ended up noticing that’s Valentine’s Day

Reading Adventures of Faerun got me excited for DMing something new.

I love how much guides it gives for different adventure and campaign ideas

[undone rain]

I remember seeing a german cop wearing like chainmail and wielding a staff irl and that makes me want to see modern medieval fantasy game where guards use riot shields and heavy armor combined with mail

[delicate owl]

That would be an interesting discussion for me. As I think the opposite.

[round bay]

Hey guys, do you think the " Staff of Powers " is great for a Sorcerer? My DM is being nice and is blessing us all with a very rare item

[delicate owl]

Id choose a Bloodwell Vial +3 imo, if they have Tashas. But Staff of Power is nice too.

[simple meadow]

My personal strategy is look at the PHB art and say "Ok I want to build that guy as a PC"

[lavish flame]

it is very good

[proper forum]

So here's something I've noticed: D&D bards are nothing like real life bards. Historically bards (and any other name they went by, depending on the region) were travelling musicians who made songs, many of which became famous from their songs. They were celebrated more so as poets than singers or performers. Meanwhile in D&D bards are loud, charismatic and expressive "theater kids" who flirt with everything that moves. I know what this is a stereotype, and it doesn't apply to all bards. And I'm not saying I dislike the stereotype either, I actually quite like it. I just find the difference interesting.

[molten pumice]

I think the stereotype is farther away from the title than the fantasy the game actually presents

[livid slate]

What do y'all think of a section of a campaign being like the sweetheart area in Omori?

[molten pumice]

The assumption is that all the characters will be traveling, and bards are the "performer" class, so outside of the game saying those performances are so good they give you magic, the position is technically the "traveling musician" role. You go from place to place, performing ballads and plays of your team's heroic deeds to make your group famous

[round bay]

I woulddd but my DM don't allow 2014 things

[round bay]

The line " DM, I'd like to persuade the Dragon " is the equivalent of a Warlock's eldritch blast

[molten pumice]

The idea of being a charismatic face and some history I'm probably just not familiar with got bards the "seduce the dragon" stereotype so people focus more on that, but what the game says bards do is as much of a bard thing as a paladin is a knight or a cleric is a clergyman

[delicate owl]

That is a stereotype.. Not everyone plays a bard the same way, and more times than not the stereotype of Bard is horribly wrong.

[molten pumice]

Which was established in the original statement mind you

[delicate owl]

Yeesh. Then you dont have many options at all.. Bloodwell Vials were never reprinted so they should be viable. Or else many classes have no access to any way to buff their spell save dc or spell attack rolls unless its staff of power, archmagi robes and I guess wand of the war mage?

Only warlock got their rod 🙁

[proper forum]

Yeah I now see how dumb my comment was. Although many medieval travelling musicians are still known by their names to this day, we really don't know what their personalities were like for 99% of them. By the way, I can only speak for medieval Europe, since it's the only part of the world I have any experience with.

[molten pumice]

I don't think what you said was dumb necessarily. It could be interesting to think about how the historical thing differs from the big pop culture zeitgeist thing

I just think that the thing that makes it seem like dnd bards differ from historical ones isn't actually the dnd aspect, but the flattened tiktok stereotype of what the dnd characters are

[proper forum]

What we know about the most famous ones I can name off the top of my head are their names, where they were from, the songs they wrote, where they went, sometimes if they were married or had kids. And of course the songs they wrote. And that's it. Most of the times the sources don't mention anything about their personal lives.

[proper forum]

Yeah what I'm saying is we don't really know that much about the historical ones on the first place

That's what in retrospect makes my statement dumb

[molten pumice]

Even then I'd kinda say that applies to most historical things.

We could know what a crusader knight's armor and gear looked like, but we most likely won't know his favorite food or what kind of jokes made him laugh

Just cause that's not really a level that gets written down for the history books

You kinda gotta fill the nuances into the gaps left by the broad strokes

[livid slate]

Do any of yall have like an emotion based gimmick for a boss?

[solemn cliff]

So im in a campaign as a path of wild magic barbarian. And rolled a d100 on a d100. Which my dm had his own table for it. I now have permanent rage until I roll a d100 again. Which may never happen. I was originally going to go wild magic sorc at lvl 7. But now its quite literally useless. What other multiclasses do you all think would greatly benefit from a permanent raging barbarian? I was thinking fighter. Maybe champion

[molten pumice]

But I feel like it's better thst way for a game that tells people they can role play as practically anyone

[livid slate]

That seems like... Broken don't it?

Anyways druid

[clear trellis]

can somebody teach me artificer please

[molten pumice]

Not really. You might find some more useful help building boss fights in #dm-discussion or if you wanna make a monster that's not from a book #homebrew but I'm not sure if emotional gimmicks translate super well into the mechanics. At least, not from anything I've personally encountered

[solemn cliff]

Sort of. Path of wild magic isnt really an optimal barbarian subclass to begin with. And its up to my dm

[proper forum]

We actually do know a lot about many notable crusaders. You need to remember that these are orders, and have hierarchy. And the higher-ups of that hierarchy had quite a lot written about them.

[livid slate]

Fair.

[solemn cliff]

But why specifically druid? All of its spellcssting is well useless. All spellcasting is now useless as I cant do it

[livid slate]

Because you keep rage while transformed ;3

[fossil hollow]

Rage Bear is only super viable lower levels

[livid slate]

Or else literally just like fighter

[proper forum]

We must remember, D&D isn't a videogame where you must constantly optimize your build to deal the most damage. It's about fun and creativity and working together with your party.

[livid slate]

It's the best I can offer in this case

Maybe like fighter for action surge ig?

[delicate owl]

And even then Rage Bear doesnt work in 2024 anymore.

Since bears do not make a strength based attack with a weapon or unarmed strike. Its just a melee attack.

[molten pumice]

Ah, well a bad example from me then I guess. I think overall though the idea of a personal assessment of a historic individual is more of a rarity. I think you'd be more likely to get an idea of the impact they left behind or items they owned rather than the kind of specifics that would really let you build something around replicating who they were as an individual.

[solemn cliff]

I know. Which is why i went wild magic. And why i was going to go wild magic sorc for utility. I was already planning on stopping at 6/7 for barbarian and multiclassing. I just cant multiclass into what I can now. Literally would be useless levels

So ive been debating on other classes. Which im now severely limited too

[fossil hollow]

why not stick to mono barb?

[solemn cliff]

With permanent rage brutal critical would be crazy to pick up now

Dc 10 con check to stay at 1 hp with a +5 to con

[delicate owl]

Hm, brutal strike you mean? Cause brutal critical isnt in 2024.

[fossil hollow]

I dont remember 2014 barbs having the CON save to stay alive yeah

[solemn cliff]

According to dnd beyond 9th level I still get brutal critical

[fossil hollow]

If you have that, youre not using the 2024 barb

which means you dnt get the DC 10 ( +5 for subsequent)

[proper forum]

Historian here (probably should have mentioned that from the beginning) we tend to get information from someone's personal life when they were really important. Usually a leader or a noble who did something important enough for it to be written down. Historical records were very commonly held, and you can conclude a lot about someone's personality based on their actions and words in a specific event. In the case of bards, we don't really know much about them because their actions didn't really have an impact on important historical events.

[solemn cliff]

Ahhh then the link i went too just simply was wrong. I went straight to dnd beyond barbarian

[fossil hollow]

dndbeyond has both 2014 and 2024

[proper forum]

Is your group playing 2014 or 2024?

[solemn cliff]

A mix but mainly 2014

[proper forum]

Always ask the DM if you can implement something

[fossil hollow]

Ok, in that case

[solemn cliff]

Im more or less looking at options now that sorc is no longer available lol

I could stick with barbarian. Survivability during rage is much better it seems. Or I was also thinking fighter. A 3 level dip.

[fossil hollow]

battlemaster fighter is a common build with barb

[misty yacht]

“Dark Sun is coming!” I scream as they lock me in the asylum as another month past with no release schedule

[lavish flame]

Real I am desperate for a 2026 roadmap

I've been asking for one since October

[solemn cliff]

Battlemaster was also one i was highly debating

[karmic pendant]

I want this as well we should've got one by now

[proper forum]

Friendly reminder that you don't need official material to run a campaign, you just need creativity

[solemn cliff]

If I go fighter subclass what split do you all think i should take? Currently level 5. Would instinctively think taking 3 levels in fighter now would be the most beneficial

[proper forum]

You can write stuff yourself and just use the basic rules

And there's also nothing wrong about using outdated rules, many people do that

[misty yacht]

Not a historian here. I do think it’s important to acknowledge that the production of manuscripts or any historical record is not the act of recording someone’s life but a literary genre. The idea that someone did something and because it was important enough to be written it was written elides the fact that these records and manuscripts were produced for a reason. Crusader tales follow hagiographic tropes of the time and often talks about temptation and sacrifice. The stories of lords and kings followed conventions of the genre from faith tales espousing someone’s virtue to courtly love where two men have more romantic tension than the woman they fight over. The idea that you know a person or group by stating they have historical texts about them simply means you knew how the person who made the tale wanted the figure to work. I think you need to establish a stronger historiographic premise in which you acknowledges either the lens you deploy to examine your sources or the work of someone else. Just saying we know a lot about them is misleading. But as Foucault said, “I am not a professional historian; nobody’s is perfect.”

[proper forum]

Okay congratulations on calling me out for being a bad historian. And you were right. I am not a historian. I am an archaeologist. But I did have to study history so I thought I could still call myself that.

You are also absolutely right, the lives of historical leaders do tend to be idealized usually based on religious virtues

[solemn cliff]

Echo knight also sounds fun. And since echos are spellcasting base. Just magic base it would work

[severe rampart]

Echoes are spellcasting base you say?

[solemn cliff]

Aren't* my bad

You magically create an echo but it doesn't count as spellcasting. Which means you can do it while raging

Atleast from my understanding

[clear trellis]

can somebody help me learn artificer

[misty yacht]

Sorry I wasn’t calling you out for saying you’re a historian. Call yourself a historian or an archaeologist or whatever you want. I just find that when people make an appeal to authority they do need to specify positioning because without that it assumes a consensus which subsumes all others.

My take on the original question you responded to as someone who i not a historian or an archaeologist is that trying to play a historically accurate version of a thing is pointless because it assumes a stable definition that does not exist. Defining the bard as a traveling musician ignores the troubadour and trouvere of Occitan and northern France or William Shakespeare who is the bard.

[slate fractal]

Qq, what class would fit artificial intelligence and what would fit authentic stupidity

[severe rampart]

Artificer, and then... uhh... Barbarian?

[solemn cliff]

^sounds about right lol

[slate fractal]

Nah artificer wouldn't be artificial
They smart fr

[wintry spindle]

a lot of classes dumb stat inteligence

[slate fractal]

They don't pretend

[worn lagoon]

intelligence is essentially the wizardry stat

[severe rampart]

artificial intelligence... Sorcerer?

[wintry spindle]

Lore bard seems artifical inteligence

[severe rampart]

Nah I don't think so (0 bias)

[wintry spindle]

Or Knowledge Cleric

Well a lore bard doesnt need high inteligence

but what is artifical inteligence?

like AI like a warforged?

[fossil hollow]

Warforged are a bit beyond AI

[misty yacht]

I also hate the term historically accurate and think that it’s pointless standard

[wintry spindle]

Lore bard could be very chatgpt coded with the way it used persuasion

[clear trellis]

what is Arcane Armor and what is a long range

[fossil hollow]

Arcane Armor is a special feature of the Armorer artificer. Long Range is the range where a weapon attack will have a harder time hitting an opponent without automatically missing

[vale sage]

is the forgotten realms heroes book good for non forgotten realms games? been wondering that since it came out.

since i’m sure some of them aren’t like, super setting specific

[valid geyser]

I mean it has the stuff like the subclasses and feats if you want that

[fossil hollow]

Banneret, Knowledge Domain, Cold Walker, theyre all pretty setting neutral

[vale sage]

yea

[valid geyser]

My opinion is that the subs are on average not very good, and I wouldn’t say it’s worth the price if you’re just trying to get a few subclasses, but whether a book is worth the price is entirely subjective

[vale sage]

thanks for your input!

i’ll have to look into them before i decide.

[oak wasp]

Real I am desperate for a 2026 roadmap

[vale sage]

i doubt we’ll get one tbh

i think with their two lead designers gone they’re kinda in shambles tbh but that’s just my own speculation

for major expansion books i mean.

[worn lagoon]

i've just had the least fun session of my life

[vale sage]

i’d be interested in seeing dark sun

and to see how they tackle it

[uncut zenith]

I could go without Dark Sun personally

[lavish flame]

their two lead designers left in April of last year. There's no way they haven't filled the slot with other people

[vale sage]

that’s totally valid

[vale sage]

i enjoy the setting and how aggressively political it is, but i know it’s not everyone cup of tea and tbh im worried how they’d do it given their rough track record with bringing back old settings for the most part

[uncut zenith]

WOTC’s replaced them with one new lead designer (looks they may have consolidated both roles into one), but I think the transition hasn’t fully settled yet

Hence why we haven’t heard any sort of news as to what they’re planning for this year yet

[naive cedar]

I’d like to see Psion printed but im not sure if I want to see dark sun tbh

[valid geyser]

i think dark sun's probably gonna happen. Hasbro wants setting book money and darksun is the last relevant setting leftmreally

[lavish flame]

I figure Psion+Apocalypse Subclasses basically gurantees Dark Sun

[vale sage]

id be interested to hear why, i think im on the same page but its always interesting to hear other takes

[uncut zenith]

Based off the UA we’ve gotten yeah. Dark Sun is all but confirmed imo

[vale sage]

i love the sorcerer king dragon stuff personally.

[uncut zenith]

I’m just saying I could go without it

[clear trellis]

can you elaborate?

[naive cedar]

I’m not looking forward to the Internet reaction if they do reprint dark Sun

[vale sage]

with the bastion rules being such a big thing now, i think birthright would be an awesome one to bring back in some capacity. recently read it and quite liked it

[valid geyser]

i think that dark sun has a fan perception of it as "the gritty 90s edge slavery setting" which has made wotc hesitant in the past

[lavish flame]

Agreed. I honestly want a Bastion-like system for Nations in a Birthright product

[uncut zenith]

It’s just tough to tell, because when Perkins and Crawford were in charge, they relatively recently said there were 0 plans to bring back Dark Sun. But now that there’s a new sheriff in town, who’s to say?

[vale sage]

it very much is not that, i think it does a decent job at depicting those things as inherently evil but ive only read the core box set

[naive cedar]

Dark sun isn’t really what the Internet thinks it is but that perception, what it actually is, and how WOTC will inevitably change it makes it ehhhh