optimization

[teal coral]

wow can't believe the damage is that high that even with a 1\2 chance of missing it out dpses the rogue

[limpid fractal]

If you then increase it with something else, like the Archery fighting style (+2 to-hit), that increases our accuracy back up to 50%

[limpid fractal]

Just visualize that a +10 to damage is, most of the time, about doubling your dice damage + stat modifier

[ocean sentinel]

The dpr without sharpshooter is
(3.5+4)x3x.75=16.875

[teal coral]

dayum

[limpid fractal]

That being said, remember that SS is great, but sometimes not that great against minions or at lower levels

[ocean sentinel]

This is why I believe that martials were nerfed

[limpid fractal]

XBE is much better to take there

[teal coral]

because of?

[ocean sentinel]

I assume a subclassless, Vhuman/clineage fighter when doing dpr calcs

[ocean sentinel]

They no longer have sharpshooters -5 +10 “power attack”

[limpid fractal]

Yeah, I'm just giving some context as to why feat selection order is important, not just dpr calculation in a vaccum

Most minions or lower CR creatures might already be dead without the need of the SS +10 to damage, and reducing your accuracy in those cases might actually lower your DPR

On the other hand, a full additional attack with your bonus action from XBE ends up mattering more in those situations (and then props up SS even more when you take it at 4th level)

[ocean sentinel]

Also btw dpr for melee fighter is ((5.5+13)x2+2.5+13)x.4=21

[teal coral]

what changed

oh melee

that was crossbow

[limpid fractal]

Same thing, just with Great Weapon Master and a polearm

[ocean sentinel]

And no archery fighting style

[limpid fractal]

With melee you just substitute Sharpshooter with Great Weapon Master, and Crossbow Expert with Polearm Master

[teal coral]

x.4 what reduced the accuracy so much

[limpid fractal]

You lose Archery (very sad) and get Defense (not bad, but you could be at range instead)

[ocean sentinel]

I mean technically if you want to melee xbe and ss is better lol

[limpid fractal]

You don't have Archery for that +2 to-hit

That is a +10% accuracy

[teal coral]

wait sharpshooter works with melee ?

[limpid fractal]

Crossbow expert does, iirc

No disadvantage at 5ft

[ocean sentinel]

Crossbow expert removes disadvantage

[teal coral]

oh it's still a crossbow build ?

[ocean sentinel]

No this is a glaive build

[teal coral]

could u break it down like this

[ocean sentinel]

Melee (glaive great weapon master + pole arm master)
5.5 from the damage dice +10 from great weapon master +3 strength with 2 attacks with 2.5 the pole arm bonus action attack, +10 great weapon master + 3 str with a 0.4 chance of hitting. 0.65-.25=0.4

[teal coral]

can u think of anything better than assassin or dual wielder

[ocean sentinel]

As I don’t play 24 I don’t know

[teal coral]

does polearm master Activate twice

[teal coral]

what is the best melee build for 14

i think all 3 examples u gave earlier are ranged right

[ocean sentinel]

Nope just once

[ocean sentinel]

11 battlemaster or echo knight/ 2 Barb/2 rogue/3 gloomstalker/1 peace cleric. Or something similar. https://tabletopbuilds.com/dnd-5e-quick-build-series-optimal-melee-and-ranged-martials/

this has a good example too

[ocean sentinel]

They aren’t the best ranged but yeah. All of them appart from booming blade.

[strange hatch]

what is 2 barb for

[ocean sentinel]

Reckless attack

[strange hatch]

and 2 rogue

[ocean sentinel]

Bonus action dash

[strange hatch]

alr

[ocean sentinel]

The absolute best melee build is a bonkers build called moon knight

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ACBpeGKZVTkLanr86EPOMtAKpwFz45KHuNT6hU1swRg/edit?usp=drivesdk

It’s a tech build and as such not all DMs will allow it

But it all works rules as written

[strange hatch]

is the name a reference to marvel moon knight

or is it cuz moon druid + echo knight

[ocean sentinel]

Yeah and also because it’s a moon Druid

It’s also a cat

[ocean sentinel]

Not echo knight that’s a different build

Techo is a silly build

[strange hatch]

seems normal if techless

[ocean sentinel]

What do you mean?

[strange hatch]

i’d honestly rather play a sorc😭 that build seems so annoying to put together

but i’m just not used to high op so that’s just me

[ocean sentinel]

It’s genuinely able to reach 5.5/6 op which is a crazy achievement for a melee martial. But yeah I’d rather just play a caster

Also we have a level 8 build that we are trying to make as strong as possible.

It uses sidekick rules

It’s a 1 fathomless/7 oathbreaker right now. The dpr calc was incredible

Basically the paladin summons a horse via find steed

The horse is a sidekick

The horse deals 45 damage

[strange hatch]

yeah i’ve seen that

multiclassing sidekicks is insane

[ocean sentinel]

It’s just a horse…. A warrior horse

[strange hatch]

yes, my statement about multiclassing sidekicks is unrelated to this build

[ocean sentinel]

The original build

The Demon Horse

Idiot Paladin build I think is really funny and pretty good

Level 1 - Hexblade Warlock

You know how paladins start. Eldritch blast, hexblade's curse, shield. The normal stuff.

Level 4 - Oathbreaker

That's right our subclass for this is the coolest one! Good channel divinities to get us through to our aura of protection.

Level 6 - Still Paladin

We get second level spells! The important one here is find steed. We summon a warhorse that is a fiend. As it is an intelligent creature that travels with the party, it is eligible for sidekick levels. It takes 2 levels in Expert, allowing it to use both its action and bonus action for dashing and disengaging. To really abuse this, make yourself medium so that another player can ride you to benefit from your mount's incredible movement. The other 4 go into warrior, grabbing the Attacker role and Mobile as its feat. These are surprise tools that will help us later.

Level 8 - Fully Online

We get our oathbreaker aura. We can use this in combination with Hex Warrior and Dueling for a total of +12 to our damage rolls on a hit. Notably, this aura also affects fiends, including our horse, who just got extra attack. We now allow our horse to act as an independent mount, readying the attack action for as soon as it moves within range of an enemy. Cunning action and mobile allow it to still function like a normal mount, keeping us safely out of melee the rest of the time. Notably, spells we cast on ourself also affect our warhorse. The big one here is Thunderous Smite. Not only does this mean 4d6 damage for a level 1 spell slot, but the prone effect makes our horse's bonus action attack much easier to trigger. this horse deals hella damage

[ocean sentinel]

Oh yeah

Btw the horse takes the linguist feat so it can speak and now qualifies for mage and or expert levels

Okay so the hardest part to calc is the chance of them falling prone.
Chance of falling prone.
.75x.55=0.413
Chance of not falling prone
.75x.45+.25=0.588
(I know it doesn’t add to 1 but rounding is annoying )
Instance 2
.75x.55x.588+.413=0.656
(.75x.45+.25)x.588=0.345
(It is back)
Instance 3 (Booming blade horse attack)
.75x.55x.345+.656=0.798
(.75x.45+.25)x.345=0.203

Now we have the prone chances we can calc dpr
15x.7+15x.7x.588+15x.938x.413+(15+4.5+4.5+4.5)x.7x.345+(15+4.5+4.5+4.5)x.938x.656+15x.938x.798=58.132

This is resourceless

[lilac musk]

ngl it should probably be undead just cus fod is the tentacle but better but like we're hitting with our whopping 14 dex so i wanted the consistency and also i like fathomless

[ocean sentinel]

I mean you’re a crazy person who’s sole focus is damage so fathomless is better for your personal purpose

[lilac musk]

it's like 3 dpr but tbh thats relevant early when your paladin levels are being useless

[exotic pivot]

Hi! In your opinion, what's the most powerful/versatile Wizard or Sorcerer build in D&D 5e (2024 rules)? Especially if we're looking beyond just the core rulebooks to include official partner content as well?

[ocean sentinel]

1 artificer/x chronurgy

Idk partnered content but I know that’s the strongest build in 24 dnd

[winter willow]

Not sure how powerful it is but Scribe is pretty versatile

[lilac musk]

its pretty mid tier

not awful but nothing special

well as far as wizards go any wizard is good

[winter willow]

I think being able to change fireball/meteor swarms dmg element is pretty handy

[lilac musk]

the issue with that is youre using fireball and meteor swarm

[winter willow]

Those are just 2 high dmg spells i know :p

[lilac musk]

yeah fireball is good as far as damage spells go but damage is almost never worth it over control

[exotic pivot]

Why exactly is this considered the most powerful build?

[ocean sentinel]

Wizard is the best class and arti is the best dip for wizard and Chron is the best subclass, you get con saves, magic stone, and some arti spells

Nacho made a write up for the whole build I’ll see if I can get it?

[ocean sentinel]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/17Jo16Tc9GrsH1p5edVP08sVVM8q7xuiK0ejlAgRXmbo/edit?usp=drivesdk

[exotic pivot]

Are there any cool combo mechanics in the current rules that echo the infamous 2014 Coffeelock?

[ocean sentinel]

5 Druid/x sorc

Basically there is a feature that gives you a permanent +1 first level spell every day

And you go sorc to have as many 5th level spells as you want

[winter willow]

I don't really understand coffee lock but wouldn't a species that doesn't require sleep do the same thing

[ocean sentinel]

Coffee lock is simultaneously a really strong combo and over rated. The best version is 2 warlock/x clockwork soul sorc. This incidentally is one of the best sorc build in 5e. The intent of the build is that you spam short rests so you can convert pact slots into sorcery points and then convert them into spell slots then repeat. An issue is getting around exhaustion. There are a good few ways to get around it though. I cannot remember the exacts on the build though. I personally prefer just taking a few short rests immediately after your long rest.

[sterile bear]

mark of shadow hex 3 / clock X is also very good

instead of making 8 sorcery points of spell slots while everyone is resting, you make 16, and then you can also cast more second level spells because of your short rest slots

[ocean sentinel]

I love 3 lock dips for sorcs. 2 webs per short rest is funny. I’m currently trying to think if 3/17 is better than 2/18 for clock. I know it’s so high level it doesn’t matter but I like optimising even if it isn’t necessary

[sterile bear]

this is what ttb says at level 20 on their hexclock build:

"Many Sorcerer subclasses might take the third level of Warlock here, but Clockwork Soul is an exception in the relative usefulness of their level 18 feature. If you would really prefer the higher level spell Warlock spell slots, you can essentially replicate the Sorcerer 20 capstone via sorcery point conversion."

you can take your third lock level way earlier though if you want

like sorc 1 / lock 2 / sorc 2-5 / lock 3 / sorc 6-17

[sterile bear]

if you want to coffeelock, this is what I'd recommend

anything past second level warlock slots is diminishing returns for the reduced spell progression

[ocean sentinel]

I know I’m just wondering if it’s better and when I’m not looking for a solution at this moment as its something I want to solve for myself,

[alpine isle]

what would a paladin benefit more from? 3 levels of undead warlock, or 3 levels of spirit bard?

[ocean sentinel]

Undead warlock

[willow sandal]

I'm generally going to go with Warlock (subclass depends on your oath but Undead is really good, especially with Conquest Paladin!)

Pact of the Blade means you can invest more into charisma, which you want for your aura at lvl 6 of Paladin.
Eldritch Blast or Cantrip of your choice + Agonizing Blast gives you a decent ranged option when you can't get into melee.
Spell slots that come back on short rest means you can be a bit more liberal with your smites.
You can make the lvl 5 delay for extra attack hurt less too by dipping 1 lvl into Warlock and grabbing green-flame blade or booming blade then going back to paladin until you're happy.
At lvl 3 Warlock you can grab another invocation and I'd personally suggest Lessons of the First Ones to get the Tough, Skilled, or Lucky origin feats. Tough especially will make you a much better front liner.

[winter willow]

Isn't there a spell that removes exhaustion

[ocean sentinel]

Conquest is a bad paladin tbh
Ebarb is better than almost all weapons so there is little reason to go into melee with pact of the blade. Smites are bad damage. Tough is a bad feat, skilled is a bad feat, lucky is good enough

[rugged wadi]

greater restoration removes one level I believe.

[ocean sentinel]

There is

[ocean sentinel]

Also is this 24 or 14?

[alpine isle]

14

[sterile bear]

just forget about melee and fully switch to eldritch blast with agonizing and repelling blast

especially with form of dread

[sterile bear]

assuming your party is optimal and everyone is ranged

also skilled, tough, and lucky are not good uses of invocations

tough is a worse fiendish vigor

skill proficiencies are pretty worthless in this game

and lucky requires you to use it before the roll now

[ocean sentinel]

Then definitely 3 undead

[sterile bear]

better invocation options include alert (if you took MI Wizard + Fiend Pact for example), musician or lord's alliance agent (because this is a better musician), ebarb, lance of lethargy, grasp of hadar, otherworldly leap

[ocean sentinel]

What’s your pally subclass?

[sterile bear]

pact of the chain, investment of the chain master

at warlock 9, gaze of two minds

[alpine isle]

What is ebarb?

[sterile bear]

eldritch blast with agonizing and repelling blast

[alpine isle]

Oooh that makes sense

[winter willow]

Sounds like its an electrified barbarian

[sterile bear]

ah my invocation recommendations were for 5.5

ignore otherworldly leap and lessons of the first ones

[sterile bear]

https://formofdread.wordpress.com/2024/10/22/the-electric-barbarian-an-optimized-barbarian-build-unearthed-arcana/

[ocean sentinel]

There is an electric barbarian build lol

[sterile bear]

I beat you to it :3

[ocean sentinel]

True!!! :3

[winter willow]

Should I get Extended Spell if I plan to use Haste

[subtle bone]

No

[alpine isle]

May I know why?

[subtle bone]

Encounters tend to be 4ish rounds, 1-2 before you can tell the outcome of a difficult fight. Not counting the lethargy chance and lost action round 1

[ocean sentinel]

No because you shouldn’t intend to use haste

[ocean sentinel]

Form of dread is really good

[ocean sentinel]

What’s your pally subclass?

[alpine isle]

A homebrew one themed around ghosts and necromancy (to explain the theme).

[ocean sentinel]

Fun

What’s the aura?

The level 7 feature

[alpine isle]

Resistance to necrotic damage and immunity to curses and stat decreasing

[astral fog]

What's the channel divinity?

[alpine isle]

Give temporary hitpoints and stopping fear, charm, paralysis or possession.

Force enemies to cry which knocks them prone and prevents them from standing up

[astral fog]

OK, solid C-tier paladin subclass then

[alpine isle]

I would go with shadow sorcerer, but honestly I don’t think he would get much useful out of that multiclass

[astral fog]

The best move for a paladin is generally 6-7 in pally, 2-3 in warlock then rest in sorc

Usually taking your first two warlock levels ASAP

[winter willow]

Any good spells that would benefit from extended spells?

[ocean sentinel]

I’ve been toying with the idea of a 6/1/13 pally/dss/undead

[subtle bone]

Death Ward stacking is one

[alpine isle]

To be fair I’m not even sure if multiclassing in this case is necessary

[astral fog]

It's a paladin, I daresay it is

[ocean sentinel]

What’s the spells you get from it?

[alpine isle]

The subclass or the multiclass?

[ocean sentinel]

Subclass

[alpine isle]

3rd level:guiding bolt, protection from evil & good
5th level:healing spirit, calm emotions
9th level:spirit guardian, speak with dead
13th level:banishment, guardian of faith
17th level:dispel evil & good, hallow

[astral fog]

OK so basically this subclass only gets spirit guardians

My advice would be to take paladin to level 6 then multiclass out

And start pal 1 - warlock 2 - pal X

[ocean sentinel]

From there you have to choose if you want to lock it out or sorc it up

[alpine isle]

Would divine soul sorcerer be better?

[astral fog]

Yes

Pal 6 - Warlock 2-3 - Divine Soul X

[ocean sentinel]

I’m still confused about DSS over clock, clock just seems better.

[alpine isle]

I still want the character to make sense thematically

[astral fog]

Both are good, depends on which spells your party lacks more

[warped crescent]

if you're level 20, 5.5e whats the max damage you could do in 1 round

not relying too heavy on magic items

[stable pebble]

with or without minions and spells

[glacial heron]

Are we allowed to discuss building encounters difficult enough for an optimized party here?

[astral fog]

Infinity

[warped crescent]

be specfic ;-;

[astral fog]

Level 20 means you can grow your power outside of the leveling system, typically through mass-production of statblocks of virtually any kind which remain completely under your control, and on top of that you also have ways to time travel so the total setup time is in the negatives

To give just one of many examples of mass-production, you true polymorph your simulacrum into an atropal which produces one permanently controlled wraith minion every 6 rounds on average, and you can true polymorph another minion into a daemogoth titan which lets each of those wraiths cast Horrid Wilting once per day

[warped crescent]

@astral fog ok maybe i should clarify
but its for a gauntlet/one shot type thing level 20, for torontodnd, which is a place where you go irl, and play games, they have strict rules, and spells like simu are banned

and i don't think they're down for any prep stuff like true polymorph pets

you have 1 legendary, 2 very rares, and 3 rares, and so on

[astral fog]

What are the specific rules?

Because I can still see massive damage being entirely possible here

You can always make prep time for yourself at this level with Demiplane etc.

[subtle bone]

If Gauntlet slam it with a Danse Macabre equipped with Wands of Magic Missile

[warped crescent]

2024 books only

[warped crescent]

2024 books only, point buy for stats, the spells and items you think are banned, are banned

[warped crescent]

prob no prep time either or not much atleast

[glacial heron]

what are their rules on prep time?

[subtle bone]

Then tbh for a gauntlet it's still just Web / Sleet Storm / Hypnotic into Ray of Frosts and Repelling Blasts ngl

Maybe save a Delayed Blast Fireball Nystul's Planar Binding orb for a practical RAW oneshot for a final boss or something

[warped crescent]

not sure, but ik were fighting a lot of dragons

[astral fog]

Sleet storm and web sound like they solve

[glacial heron]

dragons? rope trick upscale tbh

[subtle bone]

Yeah yeah if there's no chokepoint make one with Rope Trick

[glacial heron]

hol up, do they atleast have a document as to what the full rules list are?

[warped crescent]

the build i want is high burst/DPR than web/sleet storm

[warped crescent]

just search up Torontodnd

[glacial heron]

ah found it

[warped crescent]

i'm looking for just i want to deal a lot of damage

DPR/Burst/Nova types
than rope trick/web/sleet storm types

[subtle bone]

Are you in a party with 3 other randoms

[warped crescent]

yeah

[glacial heron]

Wish -> Mirage Arcane cube of lava?

[warped crescent]

their dragons

[glacial heron]

I saw True Polymorph and Shapechange is allowed

[subtle bone]

Oh god

[warped crescent]

yeah we played a shapechange character last round

[glacial heron]

Nystul's is allowed too

[warped crescent]

2024 monsters only, so you can't pudding king

I used shapechange last gauntlet, this time i just want to deal a lot of damage, like high burst/DPR

[subtle bone]

Circle Casting allowed or no

[glacial heron]

i am thinking of circle casting delayed blast fireball but since you're playing with randoms i dont think its an option either

[warped crescent]

think so

[subtle bone]

Circle Cast Delayed Blast Fireball and take a bunch of Rod of the Pactkeepers to do it many times through the gauntlet for a burst build, maybe try to convince one of the randoms to do something similar as well so it works guaranteed

[bronze jolt]

Would arti1/bard4 be a good multiclass?

If I went with like utility cantrips and spells?

Ah I'd probably want to go for sanctuary and grease for the arti spells... maybe not.

[ocean sentinel]

Druid 1/bard x is better

[bronze jolt]

Let me look into it

[ocean sentinel]

Medium armour, goodberry, absorb elements, entangle

[bronze jolt]

Maybe Cleric/Bard? Cleric is charisma based right? With command and Sanctuary and healing word?

Having healing is cool. Oh but cleric doesn't have the multiclassing thing that artificer does rounding up does it?

[ocean sentinel]

Cleric is Wis based

Also Druid is better in 5.5

[bronze jolt]

Gah! Ok either Druid or Arti, let me explore them some more.

[timid lintel]

What is it you're looking to get out of the Artificer dip?

[bronze jolt]

Tankiness, preparable spells from a good list, and utility stuff. As well as const. proficient saving throws

[ocean sentinel]

Armour prof, con prof, guidance, Sanc, greace

Oh and absorb elements

[dawn mica]

What’s the current route for a Gloomstalker after the 2024 nerf? GS to 5 and then multiclass to.. fighter? Still assassin? Or even cleric? (War might be cool with a third attack)

[ocean sentinel]

I believe it’s 5 ranger/x cleric

Though I may be wrong

[dawn mica]

Cleric seems cool - but I’m also mc into cleric in nearly all my builds. Jus a fantastically versatile class.

I could see Twilight and War. Maybe Trickery.
Gloomstalker is ranged. Transferred from the 2014 handcrossbow version. Not sure if I keep crossbow master, might go for longbow instead

[bronze jolt]

What's an enchantment/divination I should take from Fey Touched on 2014 Bard?

[ocean sentinel]

Gift of alacrity

[bronze jolt]

I have access to the Artificer spell list as well

GENIUS

Thank you

[ocean sentinel]

If this is a 5e bard then take 2 hexblade

[bronze jolt]

Why?

[ocean sentinel]

Are you playing dnd 14 version?

[bronze jolt]

Yes

[ocean sentinel]

Then 2 hexblade is better as you get ebarb, and shield spell

[bronze jolt]

Ebarb?

[ocean sentinel]

The only reason I recommended anything else was because I thought it was 5.5

[astral fog]

Eldritch Blast with Agonizing and Repelling Blast

[ocean sentinel]

Eldritch blast with agonising and repelling blast

[astral fog]

Also known as electric barbarian

Not to be confused with analog barbarians, aka barlguras

[glacial heron]

2nd best martials in the game behind Moon Knight

[ocean sentinel]

Hey sidekick horse oathbreaker is here

[glacial heron]

Whar

[ocean sentinel]

It’s a tech oathbreaker build that uses find steed warhorse as a sidekick

Nystul the horse into a fiend

Or undead or something

It’s able to deal 60dpr at level 8

And 58 at level 7

[glacial heron]

holy that's even better

[ocean sentinel]

At level 6 idk I think it’s 45

It’s Novembers weird machination

I think sidekick horse is the second best martial in the game

It has 18 ac and 90 hp at level 8

the horse can take the linguist feat to speak a language so they can multi into a mage sidekick

[glacial heron]

Peak

[bronze jolt]

Could I pick up Warlock at levels 6 and 7?

In conjunction with arriicer

I want the medium armor and shield proficiency

As well as con proficiency

Or does lore bard progression matter more? I'm guessing not

[ocean sentinel]

Also any spells that the target is “self” also effects the horse. Booming hoof (which kinda works don’t ask) and the smite that causes prone effect the horse

[ocean sentinel]

You could but it’s worse as a whole.

[bronze jolt]

How so?

[ocean sentinel]

You’re delaying your spell progression

You already get armour via hexblade

[bronze jolt]

From Bard? Oh I guess I would be

[ocean sentinel]

The conc save you can get at level 4 bard

[bronze jolt]

It's light armor though it's kinda worse... I was wanting scale mail

[ocean sentinel]

Res con

[ocean sentinel]

You get medium armour proficiency

[bronze jolt]

I was gonna take fey touched for Gift of Alacrity

[bronze jolt]

From Bard?

[ocean sentinel]

From hexblade

What’s your starting money?

[bronze jolt]

90gp

From Artificer

So what is the progression looking like at level 5? 1 Warlock/4 Bard?

[ocean sentinel]

I personally like 2/3 but 1/4 is doable

It’s six and half a dozen

[bronze jolt]

Would that delay 2nd level spells?

[ocean sentinel]

No it wouldn’t

It would delay your feat though

You would get ebarb

[dense imp]

I have a question the party is going to level 6, im a 5 wildfire druid but for 6th level i was looking into a peace cleric dip since I think that would be very beneficial, im having trouble deciding if I should go 6 wildfire druid or take the cleric dip first

[ocean sentinel]

1/4 next level you take 1/5 then 1/6 then 2/6

[ocean sentinel]

14 or 24?

[dense imp]

14

[ocean sentinel]

Okay

I mean it should have been obvious lol

[ocean sentinel]

1 peace is a great dip. The only thing to consider is if your dm allows lifeberry, in which case 1 life cleric would be better.

[sterile bear]

yeah a life dip would be best assuming you need the healing and someone else can peace dip

[ocean sentinel]

I would also after your cleric dip take a level into sorcerer for divine soul sorc

[sterile bear]

if you do not have the shield spell, getting that is also a priority

[ocean sentinel]

Yah DSS is good in this case

Basically flag Druid but wildfire Instead of Shepard

[dense imp]

Sorry dss?

[ocean sentinel]

Divine soul sorcerer

[dense imp]

Also yeah we are pretty good on healing and druid lvl 8 I was thinking about wiz initiate for sheild primarily

I see

[ocean sentinel]

Wizard initiate is really bad in 14 dss dip is better

What’s your healing?

[sterile bear]

magic initiate is a very funny feat in that it lets you use a spell slot to cast a spell once per LR

and that's it

no free casting, no more casting with slots afterwards

it's really bad

5.5 magic initiate is way better

strixhaven initiate and initiate of high sorcery are better feats that can get you shield

since they give a free casting and let you use slots

[ocean sentinel]

Aberrant dragonmark is 5.5 mi

[sterile bear]

Yeah you take aberrant dragonmark through CL if it's 5.5

but only in Eberron games

[dense imp]

We have a bard thats it for the most part besides me, I would do dss but I gave myself an awful stat spread to start with 8 cha and 16 int as a druid

[ocean sentinel]

Dip wizard then

At level 20 if you still play at this point go 2 war wizard

[bronze jolt]

So I have 2014 Warforged Hexblade1/LoreBard4 with a starting feat Res (con) and Lucky at level 4 Bard. I get a LOT of skill proficiencies and expertise so I'm thinking of taking some int proficiencies and going with 14 int and 16 charisma versus 13 int and 17 Charisma

And either going for Fey Touched (Gift of Alacrity) at level 9 or an ASI increase into Int/Con and Charisma

[ocean sentinel]

Id prefer wisdom over int and 17 int

[bronze jolt]

My base stats are 12, 13, 13, 14, 14, 15, and I want to maximize my spell DC for control spells and constitution for concentration

[ocean sentinel]

12 str 14 dex 14+1+1 con 15+2 cha

[bronze jolt]

Warforged gives +2 con, +1 other ASI and resilient con gives +1 con

[ocean sentinel]

Oh you aren’t doing tashas stat changing rules?

[bronze jolt]

I don't think we are, let me ask

[bronze jolt]

We can

[ocean sentinel]

+2 goes to cha

+1 to con

[bronze jolt]

What weapon?

Since I'm a hexblade warlock may as well have a weapon right?

Oh wait weapon mastery doesn't exist in 2014 does it? So it really doesn't matter

[ocean sentinel]

None

[ocean sentinel]

No you shouldn’t

[ocean sentinel]

Even if it did you shouldn’t

[bronze jolt]

I- what do I hold in my other hand? I thought I needed a weapon as my warlock focus

Because it's hexblade right?

[ocean sentinel]

You don’t need a weapon

You hold a shield in one hand nothing in the other

You have a component pouch on your waist

You have verbal, somatic and material all covered

[ocean sentinel]

Can ≠ must

[bronze jolt]

But couldn't making my weapon my arcane focus also do the same thing?

I guess I have Eldritch Blast

[ocean sentinel]

Spellcasting Focus

You can use a musical instrument (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your bard spells.

[ocean sentinel]

Ebarb deals more damage

[bronze jolt]

Wait but I have a shield

[ocean sentinel]

Yes…

You still have a free hand to do somatic components

[bronze jolt]

So no instrument?

[ocean sentinel]

Nope

You can cast spells without a focus

[bronze jolt]

Wait but why would I ever choose ebarb over other spells that cost an action?

[winter willow]

is there another build similar to rogue nova where it can do stupid damage in one turn?

[ocean sentinel]

Because it’s a cantrip

[bronze jolt]

Valid

[ocean sentinel]

In 5.5? Idk in 5e yes

[winter willow]

5e is fine

[ocean sentinel]

It also has a control effect

Pushing an enemy back 10ft is crazy good

[ocean sentinel]

What level?

[winter willow]

any

[ocean sentinel]

What level was the rogue dpr we are beating?

[winter willow]

13

battle master/assassin

bugbear glaive

[ocean sentinel]

Okay lol

So conjure animals as a level 7 cast already beats this and lasts an hour

[winter willow]

ok so im seeing some potential shepherd memes

[ocean sentinel]

24(3.5+2.5+4)x.576=138.24
24x8x.698=134.016

[ocean sentinel]

IIRC this already beats it out

[winter willow]

what class?

[ocean sentinel]

But we can go higher

[lilac musk]

in terms of pure numbers druid blows everything else out of the water

[ocean sentinel]

This is just a Druid

[winter willow]

oh ok

[ocean sentinel]

No subclass involved

And they take the dodge action

[winter willow]

oh this is really funny

[ocean sentinel]

For nova, Ranger is really good

[lilac musk]

if you want really high dpr you can haste one of the raptors /silly

[winter willow]

a black bear is a rating of 1/2

[ocean sentinel]

Nooooo

[winter willow]

i could spawn 4 of em xD

[ocean sentinel]

No I summon velociraptors or flying snakes

[winter willow]

giant wasp might be better

being able to paralyse

[ocean sentinel]

I can dpr check them?

It’ll be hell horse all over again but worse cause there’s 24 of em

[winter willow]

10(3d6) poison dmg

Sting. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 5 (1d6 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 10 (3d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. If the poison damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, the target is stable but poisoned for 1 hour, even after regaining hit points, and is paralyzed while poisoned in this way.

oh nvm

didnt see velociraptor has pack tactics

[ocean sentinel]

Yeah that’s not good

[winter willow]

and i can spawn 8 of em

[ocean sentinel]

Flying snake has advantage because of blind sight + fog cloud.

[ocean sentinel]

24 actually

7th level slot

[winter willow]

DANG

[ocean sentinel]

We just care about damage

[lilac musk]

i would perish i fear

[ocean sentinel]

The para happens at 0 hp lol

[bold igloo]

Best uses of Arcane Abeyance? Tiny Hut seems pretty good

[ocean sentinel]

Tiny hut, private sanctum, sickening raidience

[bronze jolt]

Wall of Force+Sickening Radiance. It's encounter ending

[winter willow]

oh thats stupid

[bronze jolt]

Sigh I don't have spare the dying or the starting gold to get a medkit

[winter willow]

oh god imagine spawning them around the BBEG and then casting Wall of force around them

[bronze jolt]

I don't even have medicine as a proficiency

Can I choose Medical Supplies as a tool proficiency?

[ocean sentinel]

I believe so

[winter willow]

hmm

[bold igloo]

you can only choose the CR iirc, you can't choose which creatures appear

Although if your DM allows you to choose, then it's amazing

[winter willow]

it doesnt say its random

[bronze jolt]

What's the actual name of it again? I'm not finding it in my compendium

[ocean sentinel]

It says the dm has the statistics not that they choose lol

[bold igloo]

Choose one of the following options for what appears
The DM has the creatures' statistics

it lists CR options

[ocean sentinel]

Doesn’t say the dm chooses lol

[bold igloo]

It'll say if you choose (see Summon Greater Demon)

[ocean sentinel]

It doesn’t say the dm picks

There is more precedent to let the player choose

By this logic the player doesn’t choose for Polymorph or skywrite as they don’t say the player picks the writing or the animal

[ocean sentinel]

That has nothing to do with anything

[winter willow]

what about giant poisonous snakes

[ocean sentinel]

IIRC they do less damage

Lemme double check though

[winter willow]

Bite. Melee Weapon Attack: +6 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 6 (1d4 + 4) piercing damage, and the target must make a DC 11 Constitution saving throw, taking 10 (3d6) poison damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one.

i think thats still less

[ocean sentinel]

I’ve eyeballed it and it’s worse on average

It also has 30 speed unlike the flying snake that has 60

[lilac musk]

dc11 is really low yeah

[winter willow]

if it rolls max dmg it does more but thats unlikely

[ocean sentinel]

We don’t calc assuming all attacks hits all enemies fair their saves and we roll max damage

We calc raw hard averages

[bold igloo]

polymorph specifies chosen beast
skywrite ngl that's a compelling argument

with conjuring spells, they'll call out what you choose

[ocean sentinel]

It said the dm has the statistics.

Having the statistics doesn’t mean choosing

It means I say I want 24 velociraptors and they have the statistics block which is a dumb way of running it

The thing is the way most people think it’s run (which is wrong) makes the spell ultra useless in dnd discussions

It’s dm fiat

Which is bad game design

Having a whole spell that is swayed to be either really good or ultra useless is bad design

If we had a metric for how the dm picks then it would be the obvious design intent

If it said that the dm picks it with no metric it would be bad game design but intended

It just says dm has the statistics

Which means nothing

Sorry for the crash out I just hate people saying that the player doesn’t choose for conjure animals

[winter willow]

lol thats fine

im assuming Druid is higher dps than Ranger

[ocean sentinel]

I think so

9 ranger/4 assassin
(9x6+5)x3x.938=166.026
9 ranger/ 4 fighter
(4.5x6+5)x6x.75=144
5 ranger/4 fighter/4 assassin
(9x6+5)x6x.938=332.052

Level 5 conjure animals
8(3.5+2.5+4)x.576=46.08
Add the ca damage to the level 9 ranger builds

@winter willow

[winter willow]

why did the damage just double

[ocean sentinel]

What do you mean?

[winter willow]

5 ranger/4 fighter/4 assassin
(9x6+5)x6x.938=332.052

[ocean sentinel]

2 attacks + gloom stalker attack x2 from action surge for 6 attacks.
4.5->9 because of critical hits via assassin
And then advantage

[winter willow]

what about dual wielding scimitars

will that add anything

[ocean sentinel]

This is using ranged weapon…

[winter willow]

ah

[bold igloo]

I get it, I think both sides of the argument work and it can go either way

[astral fog]

If the player doesn't choose, that sets a bad precedent for all wordings where it doesn't explicitly state "you choose"

Off the top of my head, you might be unable to decide when you Action Surge or what spell you cast with the Cast a Spell action

[bold igloo]

Cast a Spell doesn't say "the DM has the spell"

[bronze jolt]

Gang, how would a level 1/3/2, artificer lorebard hexblade multiclass be? How delayed would my spell progression be?

Or a level 5 multiclass so 1/3/1

Because I've been granted the option to take a homebrew subclass with a library patron that would work amazingly for my character on a narrative level and gives me access to essentially a demiplane outside of time

I could use it along with my arcana proficiency to scribe spell scrolls with no time cost

[winter willow]

If i wanted to go with a Druid/Sorcerer multiclass what should I do

[lilac musk]

what is arti doing here

[lilac musk]

5e or 5.5?

[winter willow]

Wall of thorns and conjure animals looks nice

5e

[lilac musk]

19 druid 1 dss

[bronze jolt]

Adding tankiness and con save proficiency for maintaining concentration

[lilac musk]

most of the time you take life cleric to boost your goodberry too

[bronze jolt]

And adding more spells because it's two spells for the price of one level

[lilac musk]

not rly worth it over just taking bard levels tbh, you'd rather get more progression/closer to magical secrets

you have to take res either way so it doesnt change a huge amount

[bronze jolt]

Resilient con? proficiency doesn't stack though

[lilac musk]

nah if you have con you take wis and if you have wis you take con

[bronze jolt]

Yeah

[lilac musk]

starting with con saves is marginally better but either way you end up with both so arti isnt that impactful

[bronze jolt]

It's basically an alternative to hexblade subclass in order to get the homebrew demiplane patron they have

The only downside is I lose shield

[winter willow]

Dss?

[lilac musk]

divine soul

[winter willow]

Ah

How do you even get dss at lv 1

[autumn helm]

level 1 druid

level 2 you multi into dss

level 3 and beyond into druid

[winter willow]

But it needs 3 levels doesn't it

[lilac musk]

not in 5e

sorcs get subs at 1st

[winter willow]

Ah

Don't know how to change that setting in character creation

[olive rune]

My friend, playing a swashbuckler rogue, might have access to just about any spell in the game that can legally be put in a ring of spell storing. Said rogue is about to go into a massive battle royale that will turn into a team cage match. What would be the optimal set of spells to put in there?

(We have a bunch of powerful spellcasting NPCs basically as hostesses following us around before the fight and instructed to give us basically whatever we need, which would include filling the ring)

[old spade]

What other things scale off of movement speed besides Spike Growth, Prismatic Wall, and fall damage?

[olive rune]

Haste, technically?

[old spade]

Haste does double speed, yes but I'm wondering if there's anything else that can act as an actual payoff for having a lot of speed (on top of just easy positioning)

[old spade]

As for this question, I think it's important to lay down the details

What're the players' levels?
What kind of enemies will be sent to fight them?
How will the battle royale be treated?
Will there literally be a ton of enemies to fight all at once or will it be a series of more manageable fights?
Is the team cage match immediately after the battle royale?
How long will each take?
Will it be in the same arena as the battle royale?

Outside of any possible cheese combinations, I personally wouldn't mind just having non concentration transmutation spells that last a long time like Longstrider, Barkskin, and Magic Weapon that are just generally good for martials to have in a long drawn out fight

[lilac musk]

ashardalon's stride kinda

[old spade]

Ah yeah. It's similar to one of the Element monk features. It does scale if there's a lot of enemies spread out, yes.

[swift drum]

is Magic Stone really the best ranged option for a WIS-based Ranger?

I feel like Starry Wisp is probably better since it doesn’t use up your Bonus Actions

[sterile bear]

the best option for a wis ranger is to play a druid and call it a ranger

[swift drum]

I meant as a substitute for Shillelagh when you need to swap over

[sterile bear]

why would using your BA be a problem?

[swift drum]

Beast Master or Hollow Warden

not sure if Hollow Warden will still use Hunter’s Mark, but if it does, both the subclasses have a BA conflict

[sterile bear]

you can't use hunter's mark with starry wisp

it's only for weapon attacks iirc

or actually 5.5 might have changed that

it did

[swift drum]

yeah, it’s just attack rolls now

[lilac musk]

that does still imply using hm but in tier 1 its fine yeah

[swift drum]

I mean Hollow Warden gives +WIS AC as of the UA