general-feedback-discussion

[icy lion]

Small animals and juvies will see through grass, there's a system in the works that makes foliage translucent

[copper cradle]

^

[zinc knoll]

also seems like troodon will be able to look over grass with the idle anim, though probably won't work as well with juvie troodon

[winter forge]

Isn't that kinda busted against juvies that are trying to hide while running away?

[icy lion]

? Run from what?

[solid belfry]

We had that system before back in 3.5 . Idk why it was removed ?

[winter forge]

From Troodons

[icy lion]

So far it's been planned to be specifically for juvies, not adults

[winter forge]

I see, less bad then

[icy lion]

There's been lots of changes to foliage since then, and I imagine the engine swap might've messed with how it used to work

[full pewter]

Yea but why should we have to bite there just to “check” if someone is there? Yea it’s realistic cause these animals would have a blind spot there. But I still think it’s silly and unneeded

[lilac bolt]

Also I noticed yesterday that uh all the plants are wiggly for some reason?

[copper cradle]

so if something is attacking you there you want to look and check what it is meaning they will probably get a few bites of while you're trying to see what it is biting you?

[gritty helm]

Kinda hate to say it but a defensive creature kinda needs that level of spacial awareness to know when something is in attack range. The problems with stego specifically has nothing to do with the camera and instead with other factors like how finicky pouncing them can be among other things. Changing the camera for all creatures will not fix this

[full pewter]

Stego already had a grundle of problems worse than the camera. Like broken hit boxes

[cyan flame]

Pretty sure that would be one of the things it does not have, last I checked at least

[gritty helm]

The fact that is can also just hop on a rock, which are very common, and become basically invincible is another major issue

[full pewter]

Are they not broken anymore?

[cyan flame]

I don't think they ever were, or hasn't been for a long time at least

[copper cradle]

i wouldn't say that level of awareness to where they can see all around them, it will still be able to just not that extreme

[cyan flame]

Most of the time the "hitbox" is latency or similar issues, and not the actual hitbox at all

[winter forge]

So uh, how are we going to see our skins after hatching if the FOV is that close? Is it going to be possible?

[cyan flame]

As for the camera, well it might end up needing rework if it ends up too bad for stego, it was mentioned as being ... weird due to body shape

[full pewter]

Could also be this other thing. Never remember the word but what’s it called when one person may be in a certain spot from their view, but a person looking at them will be in another spot, like a few steps behind?

[cyan flame]

Yep

[icy lion]

Desync?

[full pewter]

That’s it

Ty

If there’s bad desync then stegos are a nightmare to fight

[zinc knoll]

seems like it'll only be through replays, though I could imagine the camera actually letting you see a bit more when entering sleep animation

sounds counterintuitive but I doubt it'll be locked to the character's head

[winter forge]

Kinda lame ngl, nesting is one of my favourite things and seeing what colours I got always made me happy. I love seeing the different combos.

[copper cradle]

they might make it so when you go into your character menu you get to see your dino, skin/ size ect rather than the basic one we have now. shame about the screenshots tho with the new camara

[ashen wasp]

One thing I AM excited for with the new camera system is what Don talked about, with potentially removing the restrictive camera lock that’s exclusive to eating/drinking, since your camera would be locked all the time

[winter forge]

I hope so, or adding a picture function at least that lets us take pics of our dinos

[finite valley]

Path of acorns

[winter forge]

Ppl make fun of it, but they actually preparing a huuuge revamp update featuring popular suggestions from their website, so kinda based ig

[finite valley]

Just referencing what someone said in feed back. Made me laugh. I haven't liked the look of the game so far but I'll see what they do to it

[winter forge]

Oh yeh ik, it made me laugh too, cuz rn it's pretty true lmao

[hybrid mica]

@steep creek not a complaint but what reason do your have for the ❌?

[thin thorn]

for the record, porcupines dont shoot their quills, but i do like the idea of the quills getting stuck and doing damage overtime

[hybrid mica]

I knew that porcupines don’t shoot their quills but an issue would be tons of things can just one shot taco so a projectile would work better 🙂

[violet vessel]

Dude, I normally would say most playables under 100kg be scrapped/ai only. I will make an exception for the taco for the memes if nothing else. Also with the porcupine idea, you could use the quills really well in burrows. Just wave your cheeks at the intruder and they can't do much. Probably. Or maybe you could shed the quills around your burrow making Vietnam ankle traps.

[hybrid mica]

I mean the devs arnt bound to realism and could make taco slightly smaller than dryo so it isn’t super weak

[sweet mason]

nah didn't feel like using the general feedback one

[icy lion]

That's the channel for suggestions. It's not an option between the two, #phase-three-requests is simply not a channel for game suggestions

[violet vessel]

Yeah they could do that, but I have a feeling taco won't be much bigger than troodon. The fact that it's both smaller and probably slower than dryosaurus just makes me feel like it really needs to depend on it's gimmicks. Dryosaurus can also dig, so what is taco's niche?

[hollow mirage]

Knowing the isles dinosaurs they could probably combine it with other dinosaur dna or uh something idk

[hybrid mica]

Mainly the quills ig but many dinos are planned for burrowing or entering burrows

[hollow mirage]

To make it larger or able to hold its own against other things of a similar size

[hybrid mica]

Also most small dinos rn are super fast making a slow one would keep it near its burrow and keep it in the jungles

[flat anchor]

i was so excited for playable tacos, it's a shame they're still just AI. i hope they reconsider. let them burrow, maybe have quills like the posted idea. give them some fun interactions.
there's a joy in just being a little guy sometimes.

[hybrid mica]

It hasn’t got a concept yet so we don’t know if it’s 100% ai but it seems it most likely will be

[flat anchor]

i hope they're not just that. size does not seem to be the deciding factor for what is or isn't AI, given hypsis. which, i think, are the same size?

[violet vessel]

The Home Alone playstyle is growing on me.

[clear sun]

#general-feedback message @thick panther ty for this!

[thick panther]

🤗

[full pewter]

I think it’s important we have a bigger burrowing AI so Avas and megas and such have burrows to steal and occupy without relying on players. Then again the devs said they’ll give as much love to taco as any Dino, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s togglable as a playable on unofficials

[graceful raven]

mods try not to delete feedbacks challenge go

[merry pulsar]

i'll bet millions that they lose

[stable blaze]

#general-feedback message Plenty of people have made their case about why they think the camera concepts are a terrible idea... however, I do agree with your skin editor update ideas, they would be quite nice, especially if you could, say, toggle the night vision filter and whatnot.

[boreal briar]

I actually enjoy the above he head look of the new cameras, and only being able to see partially behind you.

My only grief is if the camera system is clunky and annoying to look around, but we don't know what it's like until more development is done

[stable blaze]

It feels like an interesting toggle that maybe some servers can have on if they wish, it would be an interesting experiment of sorts, but for similar reasons as others have stated, namely my concern of people with motion sickness and other accessibility issues, I'm quite skeptical of the possible changes

[boreal briar]

I'm not sure what kind of accessibility issues would come with it, can you explain?
But I get the motion sickness, it's something they will need to make changes on for the steg and low faced creatures. Troo is already an issue even with the current camera >.>

[stable blaze]

Mostly the motion sickness, but I could also see people with claustrophobia having issues. My brain's a bit on the fritz, but there were a lot of other good points brought up by other people in the general feedback stew that's cooking currently

[runic moat]

Wouldn’t like every playable be able to see more than what that new camera angle gives?

[summer thistle]

I will give them one chance with the camera system when I play it, if I don't like it than I'm gonna drop the game, if the game remains enjoyable than I will stick with it

but i'm not sure if the latter senario has a high chance of happening

[stable blaze]

#general-feedback message Though honestly... if that image in this post is reflective of the actual changes, then maybe it won't be so bad? They had a really bad first impression when the possible changes were first showed on stream

I'm still skeptical, and I'll remain so until we actually see it in action. There's a lotta ways this can go south, but if done right, it can be tolerable

[runic moat]

I’d rather have that

[boreal briar]

I'm sure they will listen to feedback once the camera system is in the testing servers, and I'm hopeful they will try to keep the motion sickness in mind, they did mention it in the stream at one point after all.

[icy lion]

That's the current progress on the new camera prototype, shared by Dondi in #isle-discussion just now

[brave sonnet]

sorru to bug but can someone posty the images? i cant seem to find them in isle discussion

[runic moat]

Yeah that’s much better but imo I’d still would want to see my whole playable, that new camera wouldn’t make me leave the game tho.

[icy lion]

He deleted the post to make a more accurate set of comparisons, he's working on it rn

[brave sonnet]

no wonder i scrolled for so long lol im excited to see what they look like

[stable blaze]

I can compromise with that as opposed to being fully zoomed at the back of my dino's head the whole time, though I do think a good chunk of consideration should be put into other playable's viewability as well. Stego needs to not be completely messed up by this, because like teno, stego needs to see where it's swinging its tail

[sudden hinge]

It’s totally valid to want the cameras to remain the same to see your skins idk why it wouldn’t why make a great skin system that you can’t see why even have it third person at that point

[full pewter]

Dang wish I caught that. Otherwise I wouldn’t have posted

[boreal briar]

Is the skin just for you? I like it to show off my fancy colours, not just looking at it myself. Sure it's neat seeing myself but I like the look of the new camera system for a survival game

[sudden hinge]

Pretty much yes you pick the colors you like for your character I’d like to see it the whole time not the back of my head when I just made a whole skin

Like I said that alone is enough of a reason not to implement this type of change getting the top of your animals head as the only view point is weird when you put all this time into your character animations skins and etc

Rather keep it as is with the camera locks while drinking and eating it’s not difficult to ambush in this game from my experience and sure a stego being able to see all the way around its body can be annoying but this alternative doesn’t do it imo takes too much away from the player

[stable blaze]

It kinda looks like, according to that one image we got anyway, it won't be that zoomed in the entire time thankfully. I'm still skeptical but I'm waiting until they post that more accurate comparison set. I'd rather they not focus on the camera still, but if it must change, compromise is needed for sure

[boreal briar]

Yeah, I'm interested in seeing it too. I never saw the first one posted.

[sudden hinge]

I just don’t see the point in it the reason they gave isn’t enough of a reason imo but we’ll see

I just hope they listen to the community if we don’t want it

[stable blaze]

For sure. I can understand the reason... sorta... but it feels like it contradicts with the whole thing about dinosaurs needing more awareness than humans with the third person view - but perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself and overthinking it, when I should wait and see or somethin

[sudden hinge]

To me if it’s a big enough problem they’d make us all first person

Which they won’t do

But this wip cam is damn near close lol

[stable blaze]

From the shot I just saw in isle discussion before it was deleted to make way for a more accurate show that's apparently being worked on, it wasn't too terrible looking. For an omniraptor anyway. Care still needs to be put in for herbivores especially, since they need a wider range of view

[solid belfry]

That picture looks like what we have now but just centered on the head instead of the body and scrolled in a bit

[keen garnet]

Imagine this for sparring with dibble... All you can see is each other's heads

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message
This just in: Looking at the camera system rather than screaming to the wind about something we know nothing about provides better feedback

I LOVE the fact that people actually liked the system more when they actually got to see ANYTHING about it

[cyan flame]

Turns out the immersion they're going for might be kind of cool

[limber hull]

Isle community try to not over-exaggerate how bad something that you know nothing about is

It's funny too, because they've already decided they hate it and will literally leave the game over it, I can guarantee you they will be stubborn enough to legit follow through, even if the changes aren't nearly as terrible as they make it out to be

[earnest saffron]

Some people (like myself) just enjoy what we have right now and would rather not see it tampered with. That's my stance at least

[limber hull]

A lot of people enjoy things in their current state and don't want it changed. Resistance to change is very human. Even things that are arguably bad or annoying are still liked because the concept of a change is uncomfortable

[earnest saffron]

I wouldn't call our current cameras bad though, is the thing. So... why change them? Besides the fact that the devs just decided "hm... y'know I don't like the players' cam angles. Let's change those"

[limber hull]

That's true, the current cameras aren't really bad, but the devs have a vision they want to see done, and the current camera angles may not mesh well with that

[earnest saffron]

I just hope they listen to pleads for reversal/compromise if it doesn't work out like they hope

[full pewter]

Did dondi reveal the new photos?

[icy lion]

He found a mismatch between his engine version and what's going on in game so that's postponed

[full pewter]

Nice knowing I didn’t miss it at least

[earnest saffron]

If it was shared we'd probably see several other posts of it, a handful of people snatched the images he sent at first and then deleted

[full pewter]

True

@tulip tide At this point I think we all need to calm down with camera posts and wait for dondi to release more pics. He’s already said today how frustrated he gets when people over exaggerate on unreleased content which I have to agree a lot of us, myself included, have been guilty of with the camera system. Cause after receiving new photos of what it could be I honestly think it’s not “awful”. Might even get used to it. But for now let’s just chill out and create honest feedback without spouting threats of leaving and such.
Sorry for long reply but this is more of a message for all of us

@red glacier 👆

[stable blaze]

It doesn't exactly help when they talk of a new camera system, and the only reference to it we had to go off (up until today that is) was that stream that... really didn't give anyone a good first impression. People can get a lot of opinions off a first impression of an incomplete concept. I don't entirely blame the devs nor the community itself for reacting the way it did, but this all could have likely been more calm if it was talked about at a time when the concept had actual reference images showing off a bit of what we'd be seeing with that system in mind

[red glacier]

@full pewter he doesnt understand the term "listen to the community" he is adding stuff that he thinks is good just leave it the way it it. "If it ain't broke don't fiddle with it". And I'm not tryna be rude but if he wants a dead game so be it

[full pewter]

He’s explicitly said it’s a prototype, and the images shown earlier don’t even seem to match what was shown in the stream

[red glacier]

I like a lot of the stuff they are doing but it's always some stupid stuff to ruin it

[full pewter]

I do agree it didn’t need this much adjustment, but this here is workable imo

Like I’ll settle for it

[red glacier]

Eh that looks alright I guess but this isn't supposed to be a first person game remember thay

That"

[cyan flame]

And it's not first person camera, so no worries there

[full pewter]

Agreed

[red glacier]

@cyan flame I don't mean first person just it's too close to the dinos as it already is u can't even see the full creature now

[cyan flame]

That works, at least from the sideview. Not sure how looking forward would look, but that seems reasonable enough, and it really helps to get across what they're aiming for

[cyan flame]

I get you, just wanted to point out, they dislike people calling it first person when it's not

[full pewter]

Still third person, dondi said the view was adjusted to make the rex look big from the raptors pov, which a zoomed out camera would negate

[full pewter]

Exactly, if the camera was over the hips looking forward that’d be fine

[red glacier]

I get where he is coming from tryna make it more real but as it was in legacy I don't think the camera angle should be fiddled with it at all. All props to him for working hard its just one of my favorite games and I don't want it to get ruined

[stable blaze]

Hopefully, worst case scenario is that we compromise and the devs get a bit of what they want while the players still have a workable camera. The angle in that one shot is at least a little promising that this isn't all as bad as the first impression made it out to be

[full pewter]

I used to be in that ballpark that the game would be “ruined” if the system came in. Don and kissen did also say that they will still read feedback, but over-exaggeration like “it’s gonna ruin the game” or “people will leave” are just gonna make them take us less seriously imo

Just look at it, say what you’d improve, and be respectful about it

[limber hull]

people's inability to reserve judgement until they've seen an example of how it works is concerning

[brittle sail]

Hello, I've heard there are some changes to camera that have people riled up

Havent really been able to get a good look at them, but can see the photo above - are there existing videos anywhere?

[full pewter]

They were shared by dondi before being deleted on #isle-discussion , supposedly he should share more eventually

Like some pics that’ll provide a better perspective

[keen garnet]

you can watch them on various youtubes

[sudden hinge]

Tbf they will show these heavy wip changes not show us much about it for a bit then surprise us with something that is totally different they did the same thing with the first iteration of night vision and we know how that went. Hell weather kinda surprised us with just how dark it is too. I don’t know what the finished product will be but even the concept just doesn’t sound necessary and hinders other systems already in game the recent picture makes it look bearable the first thing he showed us looked down right annoying.

[obsidian walrus]

Are people getting banned for criticism💀

[limber hull]

no lol

unless they're using some choice words in their criticism, no

[cyan flame]

No. Unless as Wave there just said, your choice of words is less than ideal, in which case it's about your word choice, not the criticism.

[obsidian walrus]

Why are there reddit posts stating otherwise?

[limber hull]

because its the reddit and they love leaving out details about why they got banned to help spread the fire

look at general feedback. Criticism isn't banned

[hollow mirage]

I think some people are also straight up getting personal and verbally hating on the devs for doing their job lol

[limber hull]

yea probably

[hollow mirage]

my favorite quote of the day

[limber hull]

hes right though

it's sad

whenever i see civil discource, it's immediately followed with both parties surprised that it didn't devolve to a shouting match. That shouldn't be such a rare situation that you have to acknowledge it as such

[icy lion]

@meager grail Already considered #isle-discussion message

[meager grail]

Ah I see.

[cyan flame]

I would imagine the people posting did criticize, but did so in a manner that wasn't accepted, and then they confuse the reason they get banned.

[limber hull]

guarantee you they used specific words to call the devs that don't fly well with the filter

[brave sonnet]

yeah id say its pretty fair i post alot of feed back and have never been banned and i have gotten into a dissagremnt with a mod and was not banned so its not so much that the critisism that they gave that got them banned but how they worded it

[frigid tide]

As far as I'm aware

You never know though, they might have just cussed out a mod and complained on another isle related thing

[lucid robin]

@limber hull ngl curious what you think of the planned camera changes, just because you're always discussing things here and actually make good points and comebacks in arguments, which does make you annoying yet entertaining to talk to XD

i bet u already talked about it earlier but i dont wanna scroll

[limber hull]

based on what we've seen, the new cam does not in anyway reduce your ability to see your own skin

[lucid robin]

good to hear ^

[limber hull]

have you seen the screenshots?

[lucid robin]

some, but i haven't read the entire devblog yet. i've mostly gotten info from yt videos

ill go look at the camera screenshots rq for more context while u reply-

[limber hull]

here's one

[lucid robin]

huh. well that doesn't look nearly as bad as people seem to be acting

altho im not sure if u will be able to see ur tail easily with long-tailed things like stego or galli?

OOO WAIT THEY ADDING INSECTS AND LIZARDS? HELL YES

[icy lion]

Don mentioned needing to figure out the weirder shaped animals like galli and stego

[limber hull]

yea, because people incorrectly spread rumours to form a hate-train

and now Dondi no longer wants to show any WIP content, or stream at all

lost the motivation because people failed to understand "WIP" or "concept"

[lucid robin]

yeahhh the internet (and especially islecord) is full of toxicity. that's what you get when people have complete anonymity

i do miss #isle-phase-three having stuff in it regularly...

[limber hull]

well we basically ensured we'd be basically not getting that lol

its incredible watching people being unable to wait for a system to be showcased before throwing a hissy fit

[latent olive]

what if the camera was locked to the tail and the camera moved at the same point as the tail

i think that would be very funny

[lucid robin]

XD that sounds so annoying

imagine galli with its tail going all over the place

also stego could use its new tail attack to raise its camera in the air lmao

[latent olive]

tail swing as stego and its like getting shot out of a cannon

[lilac bolt]

Yeah same stuff happened to that wolverine game when early access stuff got leaked

[icy lion]

taps right click and immediately passes out irl

[lucid robin]

LOL imagine the camera actually detached

[latent olive]

we are turning motion sickness into motion disease

[lucid robin]

this sounds like absolute gold material for an april fools update

also i just got an idea: what if instead of changing the entire game temporarily for a day, they add a new server (or a few new servers.. yeah they'd need a few) that have the april fools update on them

so people arent forced to play the update, and they wont lose any dinosaurs to weird april fools stuff

and remove the servers after april fools ends

[brave vale]

okay this is good... it was the head/neck thing i HATED... this is better for me, if it's gonna be like this then im okay with it, havent seen this yet... but im still a bit skeptical about it, but never know... where did he post that btw?

[icy lion]

In #isle-discussion, the original post was deleted as he wanted to find something more accurate, but the engine version he was on meant he couldn't make a good comparison from current

[brave vale]

kk... well he jsut gotta show everyone more of this... cuz the first "prototype" he showed the public was drastic, and i can see why SOOO many people reacted so heavly on it... i guess they will once they have done more as he said its a prototype...

[limber hull]

it was literally cameras around dinos

[icy lion]

@civic hull

[civic hull]

?

[latent olive]

carno sprinting around the map with the GTA cinematic camera mode activated

[limber hull]

you can see your dinos body

[icy lion]

The new camera isn't planned to just be the dino's head

[civic hull]

Really cuz that’s all I saw in the stream lol

[limber hull]

like, he made it clear it was WIP, and that NOTHING was in place

[civic hull]

Either way, it’s an unnecessary change

[icy lion]

The stream showed Don's earliest ideas before he handed it to the devs who actually work on the camera

[brave vale]

yeah i got that... i just thought it would be something close to what he showed us... but nice

[civic hull]

They should focus on developing things that are actually important rather than making shorty decisions to change this that shouldn’t be

The camera system is fine lol

As it is. This new one is just completely dumb and unnecessary

It’s not fun to be so restricted

It will get extremely frustrating to play with

[brave vale]

i still hope they'll do that, work on this in between the most "important" work... but i mean it's their lives so they can do what they want with em xd, mutations once added will be nice, hope it's not a year till

[lilac bolt]

It's really not that restrictive

[civic hull]

Yes it is

[lilac bolt]

And should be different for every dino

[civic hull]

I don’t see how you think that isn’t restrictive

Like wtf

I get limiting camera rotation, I think that would actually be cool, but this system? Nah screw that

I’m uninstalling the game and leaving a bad review if they go through with this

[lofty nymph]

yes it is

[civic hull]

https://tenor.com/view/april-fools-joke-dog-its-fine-this-is-not-gif-16757454

[lilac bolt]

Idk it can for sure be zoomed out a bit but it's not that terrible

[civic hull]

Yes it is that terrible

[limber hull]

i think limited camera rotation is worse

i prefer this

[civic hull]

Nobody else does tho

The current camera system is good

[lilac bolt]

It still very new

[civic hull]

This new one is bad. There is no reason to add it

[lilac bolt]

It can change and be better

[civic hull]

Yea but if you have been around long enough you know dondi will get his way, and his way sucks

This whole thing of changing the system is dumb, and I ain’t budging

[limber hull]

okay so... if you think nothing will change, why even bother arguing

clearly no matter what you do, nothing will change according to this logic

[lilac bolt]

Idk it's your opinion and if I can't change your mind in any way then that's fine

[finite valley]

I'm going to tell them, hey the camera system is looking really cool, but one thing, can you widen the field of view or zoom out to where you can see most of the creature at least, kinda like the perspective in live build now, that would be awesome

[limber hull]

besides all the reasons he gave, there is no reason

[latent olive]

i mean

the camera system could be dynamic in regards to what state the character is in

say youre a maia and youre resting on the ground, then the camera zooms out a bit

or if youre sprinting through the forest, the camera is closer to your head

etc etc

[civic hull]

His reasons are dumb tho. Ambushing is not hard with current camera lol. If it’s actually that hard then its just a skill issue

[latent olive]

its not like its THE ONLY THING WE ARE EVER GONNA GET ITS ONLY THAT NEVER ANYTHING ELSE RAAGH

[limber hull]

you can disagree with the reasons, but he still has reasons

[civic hull]

Like no Dondi, everyone is not bad at the game like you are

[limber hull]

lmao

[lilac bolt]

despite it still being a WIP it immediately got hate by large amount of people

[finite valley]

sounds like a lot of work for like no pay off, actually making the game jarring for no reason

[limber hull]

because no one can reserve judgement

that's not a thing that's done here

[civic hull]

Yah for a reason, restricting the camera in a game makes it painful asf to play

[lilac bolt]

But you said you thought limiting the camera rotation was fine???

[civic hull]

I’m honestly tempted to make my own camera system based off the images we have in UE5 to show how horrible it would be

[civic hull]

Ya a little, but this is waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyu too far

I’d prefer no restriction

[lilac bolt]

We have two images

[civic hull]

And a stream lol

[finite valley]

They keep trying to assuage us that they aren't trying to change it in the exact way we fear they will change it

[civic hull]

They don’t realize that really any change to it will suck

[finite valley]

I want to go play a 3rd person game where I can see my character properly like a 3rd person game is supposed to be

[civic hull]

Idk man if they kill the game then I’m done with it. This feature will kill it

[civic hull]

FR

[lilac bolt]

There's no point in showing any early access stuff if stuff like this happens to things that aren't even close to being done

[finite valley]

true but its what they are going for that is the problem not its progress

[lilac bolt]

It's like judging a cake that's still baking of course it looks like crap it's not close to being done yet

[storm pond]

What's broken at the moment needs fixed, more communication and bring up stuff like this only when it's ready to be tested and go from there with the results.

[finite valley]

But this is the situation where you don't want a cake and they're telling you don't worry the cake will be good

[lilac bolt]

There's a lot broken with the isle it what we get with a game that's still heavily in development not even sure if It's half way done by now

Not even sure if it'll be done in 5 or 6 years but we'll see I guess

[storm pond]

Any idea is worth at least a test but only when the issues at hand have been dealt with and then when a idea is ready for a test let is loose for a test and go with the communities feedback/results if it's not good move on to another.

[lilac bolt]

The more I interact with the community the more I remind myself why I stopped playing for 2 years

[storm pond]

That's why I say only even mention something if it's ready to be tested then not mention it and say stuff like we are gonna do this regardless of what the community thinks especially when it's not even testable.

[finite valley]

I am very tired, I thought I would leave this alone but I can't quit this camera discussion. I do want whats best for this game and am opinionated as anyone. Hope you out there have a good night/morning whatever, genuinely. Peace

[storm pond]

We need people constantly working on broken things and things that are breaking, and others working on new stuff to implement and only bring it to light when it's testable keeps us in the loop and dosnt leave time for ppl to raise pitchforks for months over things that can't be tested.

And if the community likes the tests put it in the game, if they don't forget it and move on to the next thing. What gets us is the months of speculation and all that time to go for each other's throats for stuff we can't even touch to tell of we like it or not. I love this game I still have hope. Together we can do this.

[lucid robin]

DO. NOT. "FIX". SOMETHING. THAT. IS. NOT. BROKEN.
The current camera is not broken. I have seen zero complains, from islecord, my friends, youtubers, not anyone even dislikes the current camera, except when looking straight up in the air. This camera doesn't need "fixing" so leave it alone. That's my three cents on the matter

[icy lion]

"If it ain't broke don't fix it" results in functional but entirely mediocre systems and mechanics that leave much to be desired

[limber hull]

^

this is so goddamn true

[lucid robin]

how about, "if it is a great and functional system already, leave it the hell alone" then?

[icy lion]

Is it great?

[lucid robin]

imo the camera is great, yes.

[icy lion]

It's just a camera to me imo

[lucid robin]

as far as cameras go, i see almost no problems with it

[icy lion]

I don't have any pros or cons with the current system whatsoever

[limber hull]

its just a camera, yea

[icy lion]

Same way ptera's flight is just flight to me

It's eh

[limber hull]

notice how no one has ever praised the camera BEFORE the change was announced. It's servicable, it's not something people think is amazing

[icy lion]

nothing to say, even positively

[lucid robin]

the new system has pros and cons, but rn we have no cons, and no extreme pros (i see some pros in the current camera)

[lucid robin]

how do you make a camera amazing? it's literally a camera, it's supposed to be simple and easy to use

[icy lion]

By making it in a way that lets you feel immersed in the world imo

Half of that is how the animations interact with your movement and directions

[lucid robin]

first person, or even something slightly close to first person, is not more immersive to me. if you want that, it's literally an option to play with your camera right next to your dino's head in the game right now. but don't force me to use that camera if i dislike it and think it ruins my experience

[lucid robin]

which you cannot see as well with the new camera (yes i know it's WIP)...

[visual surge]

.

[lucid robin]

and dear god do i pity people with motion sickness-

[visual surge]

this is just bs

[lucid robin]

is this supposed to be as far as you're allowed to zoom out?

[lucid robin]

even this is prettyyyy bad

uh. there goes that guy's 'yes' ig

[visual surge]

Oh nah. 😭

[lucid robin]

cant even see the whole dinosaur

[visual surge]

someone deleted my other message, wild ngl

[lucid robin]

||i revoke this statement, i have changed my mind||

[icy lion]

Since it wasn't true. I can't blame you for not knowing then, but now you know

[lucid robin]

literally all you said was "yes"

[visual surge]

could just correct me instead of deleting it but ok

[icy lion]

I don't want anyone else to be misled, which is why I deleted it

[lucid robin]

yes, please don't just delete stuff because it's "misinformation" or whatever. correct the misinformation

[icy lion]

I can and did do both

[lucid robin]

if they're scrolling through the chats they'd see your correction

[icy lion]

Trust me, people will miss the corrections and cling to the original statements

I've been doing this a while

[lucid robin]

so..

anyway, the camera-

yeah no if they don't make it less restricting i may never return to the game until mods are added

[limber hull]

such a bizarre reasoning to quit lol

[mystic patrol]

this game already gives me eye strain and hand cramps from holding buttons so long, and if i get motion sick on top when playing this game, yikes. i already get it minorly.

[lucid robin]

nah man i quit a long time ago, but the changes they've added lately are steadily draining my motivation to return to the game

[summer thistle]

it might make me motion sick if it's done wrong

that's a plenty reason to leave

[lone portal]

Definitely not bizarre, I have rarely touched the game since then just waiting to see what Evirma will be like once more things get implemented but as soon as I saw the new camera changes it sure made me feel quite upset.. I mean why “fix” something that has not been an issue at all ever for the game and restrict the sense to view from players? I just don’t understand at all.

[limber hull]

yea, they're aware of that possible problem, and are going to take steps to avoid it. The system is being designed with motion sickness in mind

[lucid robin]

^

[limber hull]

by this very logic, EVRIMA should've never existed

why "fix" a game by making a new version with different locomotion, combat and everything when you have a game that works fine

[lucid robin]

@gleaming carbon not one red X so far :D

[limber hull]

they could've spent more time updating legacy with new dinos, maps and so on, but they spent time making a version that no one wanted at the time

[lucid robin]

the camera was not the problem with legacy, and guess what, the camera didn't become that different in evrima.

[limber hull]

you seem to have entirely misinterpreted my point

[lucid robin]

it's the same as it always has been BECAUSE IT WORKS

[lucid robin]

will you rephrase?

[limber hull]

if you shouldn't fix what "works fine", EVRIMA should've never existed

[lucid robin]

legacy didn't "work fine" though

it had mannnyyy problems

[limber hull]

you can play it, and it works

[gleaming carbon]

Seriously, I just came to check I honestly thought I'd have 20 by now.

[lucid robin]

by that logic, the most downvoted and downrated game on steam "works"

[limber hull]

not really no

[lucid robin]

i feel like you're getting into semantics here

[limber hull]

legacy was a playable experience

[lucid robin]

congrats ig XD

hey @icy lion can u add the lil reaction emojis to Wired Rivel's post? the bot glitched or somethin and didnt add them

[limber hull]

spiro worked fine, we never needed Gateway

same kind of ideal

[icy lion]

I don't have reaction perms in there :(

[lucid robin]

aw, why not :[

[icy lion]

Sometimes the bot acts up but if someone blocked it there's nothing that can be done

[icy lion]

They're not necessary for the most part

[lucid robin]

ohh some people block bots

[icy lion]

And at worst, it'd mess with the bot

[lucid robin]

i guess yea

[lone portal]

Apparently the old code for Legacy was broken or something and could not be fixed so they had to build from the ground up

[lucid robin]

i had more fun on spiro than i have on gateway so far but maybe i just enjoy dinosaur deathmatches more than most people lmao

[lucid robin]

also, one logic point doesn't apply to all cases. you can't just take someone's logic that applies to one situation and stick it on 100 others and go 'see, it doesn't make sense'

things are more complicated than that most of the time

[limber hull]

i'm going off the very simple statement of "not broken, don't fix"

[lucid robin]

it doesn't mean "if something functions whatsoever, don't fix it" it means if a certain part of something functions properly and does not have issues, don't make up reasons that it has to be changed and then "fix" the issues that aren't really there

that's how i use it anyway

especially if the "fix" actually downgrades that thing

[limber hull]

thats opinion lol

[lucid robin]

well, maybe the devs should listen to the community's general opinion more often then

[lucid robin]

omg just finished the devblog and on a lighter note, cerato's corpse vomit thing sounds so cool and definitely fits its character well

[urban flax]

If they listened to the community's opinion more we wouldn't even have evrima

[lucid robin]

well, considering they almost never directly listen to or acknowledge our feedback..

[urban flax]

They do
But they sure as hell don't listen to feedback of people who say "cancel this WIP feature, no one tested it but I know nobody will like it"
And "revert everything to how it was before"
Which is a good thing

90% of the feedback channel... Well 98% now is not worth better than shitpost

[lucid robin]

they never talk in here, they never react to things in #general-feedback, and if they do listen to our feedback, they rarely say it's because of the backlash or feedback they got, and just act like they chose to do it and it was their idea. that's what i've seen.

also there's the problem that they almost never play on the official or unofficial servers. they don't seem to personally know what the experience of their own game is

[urban flax]

Both wrong
They do react to some feedback, and I've had conversations with Punch in here
And I'm not the only one
Yes it's rare, but as I said most of this channel is useless junk

It's just people repeating the same thing over and over, without trying to understand what's going on or actually suggesting things

[lucid robin]

"they do react to some feedback" once in a blue moon maybe.

[urban flax]

What a coincidence
Interesting feedback is posted in this channel once in a blue moon as well

Also we need to consider a good portion of the "good" ideas we have as a community may be things they already considered or are planning to do
I know some pieces of my own feedback have been implemented into the game, but I can't be sure it was because of my feedback or if they already had the idea before

[latent olive]

you know the previous devblog that said using a salt lick can remove a nutrient?

I’m almost certain that’s my idea from long ago, that hypno personally reacted to at the time

[urban flax]

Could be
But several people posted an idea similar to that iirc

[latent olive]

oh yeah???

#general-feedback message

argument: won

[urban flax]

https://tenor.com/view/nerding-speech-bubble-pepe-nerd-gif-26077806

[urban flax]

@unreal flume The new camera won't be first-person

Also uh
Don't ask an AI for opinions duh

[limber hull]

i love how fargone we are that AI opinions apparently are the cruxis of our argument

[faint cipher]

The AI do be spitting fax tho

The AI has more common sense than actual people

[unreal flume]

the fact that a dumbb AI with no real opinion of its own knows this is a bad idea speaks volumes

[limber hull]

an AI with zero context (that you actively misinformed btw) gave a generated answer based on what little you gave it

because as Dondi has said

it ain't first person

its not intended to be first person

if all ideas were based on if ChatGPT liked it or not, a lot more games would be designed horribly

[faint cipher]

Its pretty much first person mate

It ain't even very realistic

[limber hull]

based on the fact that you can see the dino's body pretty clearly, no it aint lol

[unreal flume]

yea, it's pretty much first person. also it was meant as a "funny haha AI" anyway it's mindboggling to me that you can defend this mr.cerato

but everyone has their own opinions and that is okay

[faint cipher]

These animals have eyes on the side of their heads

they have a massive field of view

[unreal flume]

true

[limber hull]

im not a colossal fan of the change but people are just making things up at this point to be mad lol

[faint cipher]

So then why are you defending it like this?

[limber hull]

because i would rather see what they do than get mad at WIP stuff, then decide if I actually hate it

[faint cipher]

That is a fair point

[grizzled matrix]

💀

tweaking

[sterile wharf]

I think a lot depends on how its implementation works. I feel the change is probably good because it enhances stealth gameplay.

It also gives. great way to balance something like stego that can oneshot most of the roster from almost any direction.

[limber hull]

@barren zephyr they dont ban people for feedback LMAO

[barren zephyr]

Meat rider number 3

[limber hull]

read the rest of the channel, it's tons of people not being banned despite saying they don't like the camera

"meat rider"

mate they literally just don't

idk who made that up but its really funny how people actually believe it

[desert arch]

It was the reddit

[limber hull]

oh yea lol

i love how apparently they ban for camera change criticism, yet there's feedback posts that have been up for several days saying they don't like it, and they're not banned

[barren zephyr]

There’s so many post its most likely a pain to continue banning random people

[limber hull]

or the easier option is they don't do it, and they got banned by the automod for saying a specific set of words lol

[barren zephyr]

Then again everyone on Reddit says discord is lying and everyone on discord says Reddit is lying so it’s pretty much impossible to get the truth

[fringe sundial]

I had to cut my response down due to character limit :/

they're both toxic and both can have good points and bad points.

[desert arch]

With as many discord mods there are, it would only take them a few minutes probably

[limber hull]

^

its really not hard to right click and ban

[barren zephyr]

Most neutral user

[limber hull]

reddit just ends up feeling like a circlejerk of "i hate the isle"

plus it's reddit. Both are toxic tho, that is true as hell

[fringe sundial]

eh.. Just been here for 5 years. At this point, i've seen it all.

well.. Thought I had. That new camera system might be the reason I say bye.. and lose 2,465 hours of my life.

[barren zephyr]

I thought the isle was so much more than what it was when I bought it and it really aren’t I personally don’t like it at this moment because of things like stam,food problems, bugs, etc the game just needs some constant dev work and the game could be great but in my opinion we need a better dev team first

@limber hull this was meant to respond to what you said

But dyno said it contained blocked content in it because I say s-t

[barren zephyr]

Fair honestly if it’s going to be as bad as I hear it’s gonna drive me farther from the game mainly because getting food as a carnivore is already impossible I can only imagine what that’s gonna be like now

[fringe sundial]

Im ok with the current stam. I think it should be dropped to 50% for regen while trotting but other then that its fine. It works well for pack hunters that need to wear down something like a stego. But that camera.. Its going to be the death of the game. Especially for animals that use a tail attack. Teno wont be able to see to properly use those tail and kicks. It really doesnt look good for it.

[barren zephyr]

I didn’t even think about the tail attacks

[desert arch]

If youre a carnivore just go east plains, its pretty much impossible to starve there

[fringe sundial]

I've had no issues at all with food for carnivores. Usually if you spawn east or north east you'll find all the bodies you need. Hopefully that helps. Those are the two hot spots. You're likely not finding anyone anywhere else sadly.

[desert arch]

If youre out of hotspots youll mostly see stegos, with the occasional deino and small carnis sprinkled in

[fringe sundial]

yeah landing them is going to be near impossible with the new camera

[fringe sundial]

great for a pack of dilo hunting stegs. Always plenty at swamp. To bad water prevents your clones from getting at them though.

[barren zephyr]

Most can’t go there till there full grown or it’s lay down in a bush and hope that car I don’t see you simulator

[desert arch]

Swamp is a really bad place for dilo, the water under the map blocks the clones for spawning. But ive had lots of success with hubting stegos there as omni ^^

[fringe sundial]

you'll have to play with my gang sometime xD its not hard. The initial getting the diets is the most dangerous part. After that you're good to live off ai until you're big enough to kill things.

[barren zephyr]

Also it would be nice to find a way to spread people across the map so there not all in east plains

Yall type way to fast holy

[fringe sundial]

fair point. Luckily that zone typically moves up to highlands so if you wait till its there, you can catch them on the march to highlands and meet them where there is no water at all.

[barren zephyr]

I play solo half of my friends don’t even have a pc or for that matter anything outside of a Xbox

[fringe sundial]

boop me next time you're on and if im around ill join in.

you sound like you're newer so its good to find a group to help you learn the ropes.

[barren zephyr]

Alright

[desert arch]

Depends on what you play tbh. Something like a carno is viable there after reaching sub, smalls like omni can just jump on the fence for safety. The only thing that has a hard time growing there is cerato

[barren zephyr]

I’m also just trash at PvP

[fringe sundial]

free grow servers to learn that part. Saves you hours of growth time.

[barren zephyr]

Funny enough the cerato was the second Dino I ever made to full grown

[fringe sundial]

Scope did have a server where you could get admin. Might be worth looking into if he still has it up.

[barren zephyr]

First was stego since it’s a tank 😭🙏

[fringe sundial]

oh god.. Poor guy gets bullied by almost everything xD

[barren zephyr]

Even a gang of gallis bruh

[desert arch]

Honestly thats impressive, sub cera is just a joke of an animall X)
Its competing with stego for the worst playable award

[fringe sundial]

frt

[barren zephyr]

Stegos are annoying after awhile because you literally can’t die which I learned quickly

[fringe sundial]

hot take, but I liked the puke train xD I actively grew a stego just to see if Cera could kill me and.. Well.. Nope. I wiped cera pack after cera pack. Never got puke locked.

I loved the challenge.

[desert arch]

Omnis are actually really good against stego. Me and 2 of my friends killed 3 stegos yesterday

[barren zephyr]

I’ve never killed a stego even the baby’s hit hard

[fringe sundial]

Omni is the worst against stego right now. That pounce is a tricky mistress.

[barren zephyr]

Like very hard

[desert arch]

4 pounces with bucking almost completely drain its stam, after that its already over for it

[fringe sundial]

Troo is actually better. Smaller and harder to see.

Unless it sticks its head in a tree or rock wall xD

[desert arch]

Ill have to disagree, speaking from experience

[fringe sundial]

same speaking from experience xD

[limber hull]

absolutely not, omni is the king of stego slaying atm

[desert arch]

Just gotta wait it out, ai spawning comes in clucth

[fringe sundial]

thats why I hardly see them except at ne dam xD Dilo is the true king of stego slaying right now.

[desert arch]

Mostly because bucking takes a lot of stam for stego, and its completely defenseless when out of stamina

[limber hull]

nah, omni is better

[desert arch]

Tbf, most omni players on officials aint the best😅

[fringe sundial]

Im just speaking from my own experience. I have killed stegos with both and I find troo is easier. The lack ov visibility makes pounces easier to land. And I've been at this since pounce was russian rillette and you didnt know if you were on it or floating and about to get sniped.

[fringe sundial]

I work with a cordinated pack in vc xD so both are viable for us. The fact troo is smaller just helps get pounces without dying to a rogue tailswing.

[desert arch]

Respect for playing troodon o7

The lil guy is super underrated tbh

[fringe sundial]

honestly. Though we've been loving on Herr lately.

back before the current growth times, troo was more viable then now. But still pretty good overall.

I will say this. In the 5 years i've been here, I've never seen the community so united xD its kinda cool that we're not all at each other's throats.

[inland solstice]

Bro if they go through with the camera system i will never play this game again

[keen garnet]

You're apparently not alone. In fact, a lot folks won't be able to play if they add head tracking...

[fringe sundial]

Im one of them too. Never thought other dino games looked worth my time. Boycotting and moving to other games is just gonna be how it is. Its sad cause i do love this game. Id not have given it so much time if i didnt. But i have very bad eyesight as it is. Ill not strain even more to deal with foliage always in my face. Its just not fun. The fun aspect is just slowly draining away.

[keen garnet]

@warped bridge private servers already have moderators and if they're not doing a good job curbing toxic chat, you can help point that out to them by taking your play to a different community server. Enough people do that, and they'll be left with too few to justify keeping it going or be left with only toxic players all humping each other and KOSing like crazy, getting the experience and game culture they wanted.

Unless they caved and added it back, officials don't have global and don't need extra moderators for it. Plus, the Isle is one of the least toxic multiplayer games I've ever played. Path and BoB both have toxicity too, but I've literally watched a player describe in detail how they were going to SA another player's kids for beating them in PvP before... the Isle has its toxic players just like every other multiplayer game, but it ain't that toxic.

[mellow juniper]

Lots of people are reviewing on steam since the devs like to ignore the majority

[latent olive]

bruh

[keen garnet]

I saw that.

[candid pelican]

Hello, I have a problem starting the game, where should I write?

[limber hull]

its really funny

they're legit review bombing

over a system that doesn't exist yet

[latent olive]

review bombing a game because a developer showed off an experimental change that might not even make it past prototyping

though I suppose games have been review bombed for less

[mellow juniper]

I haven’t seen the reviews yet, just the posts about them.

[urban bear]

whats your oissue?

[keen garnet]

There are a few. But if folks are doing it, it's because they don't feel heard or...worse... Ignored by the devs. I'm not saying it's right, but since the camera is set enough to make it into a dev blog and the vast majority seem to think it will make the game physically or enjoyably unplayable for them, then they want to get that point across. I've literally never seen this community so united over a change in the near decade of it's early access status.

[urban flax]

True
This community has consistently been getting more stupid with time but this is an all-time high

[limber hull]

it is somewhat unfortunate

[urban flax]

Most of the people who are complaining believe what's in the works is a first-person camera system

[proper otter]

I'm just having a laugh at those people. It's not even in the game yet and we haven't even tried it before voicing opinions.

[urban flax]

If you're not against the camera changes (whatever they end up being) you're a dev bootlicker

[proper otter]

No, I'm a realist and know that A. It's not in game yet, calm yourselves
and B. Try it first, when it's finished. Then you can tell them it doesn't work. You can't say it doesn't work when it's not even finished.

[keen garnet]

I mean it's pretty darn close and is supposed to have head turn tracking, so while it is a very close third person camera, it only needs a tiny zoom to be first person. 🤔 Honestly it needs to be way reworked from what we saw to actually work.

I hope they can make it fun, but I hope they just don't do it more.

[limber hull]

the joke is this is actually how people think

people legit think that not immediately hating the system is indicative of bootlicking

[urban flax]

A camera like in modern ARPGs would actually be so much better than what we have now
Which is potentially what the devs will be going for

[proper otter]

I have no bias towards any devs. If they have an idea then I'm just gonna see it through. I've stopped playing the game before because they did something I didn't like. Come back, and things are fine.

[limber hull]

its almost like waiting for things to be finished is the mature adult way of doing things

[proper otter]

Ikr who knew. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

What I will be mad about though is these gottdamn bird AI shredding my little Ptera to pieces while not being about to out fly them.

[jovial hazel]

So on the opposite end of that, would it be the adult way of viewing it to understand that you are probably getting bothered by the opinions of actual kids with their underdeveloped brains and complete lack of the ability to even grasp the concept behind the camera changes and the extra dynamics they could add to the game. Not to mention the fact they don't even realize they are not the target demographic of the official experience, if they can't understand that.

[keen garnet]

Some ideas don't need to be finished for folks to know they won't like it. This new camera angle is honestly spectacularly bad on paper and from what we've seen already.

There are way better ways of balancing dinos. Feel the stego is too powerful? Slow down the tail. Add more powerful dinos.

I mean, I might be less against it if the dinos actually had realistic fov, but they wont do that because it would give herbis a massive visual advantage.

[limber hull]

i legit cant believe anyone thinks stego is too powerful

slowing down the already pathetically slow tail would be hysterical tho

[keen garnet]

Did we watch the same stream? That new attack used to justify it being op by dondi is lightning fast.

[proper otter]

Dont you need to sit still to use it? or is this a new attack I havent seen yet?

[keen garnet]

The regular swing is slow, yes, but this was the new attack planned being showcased

[jovial hazel]

The "realistic" fov is literally the whole point of the change. It gives devs another tool to balance the dinos instead of just the legacy "stam, health, speed" that makes everything end up feeling the same. They will have different fovs, presumably.

[frigid tide]

That isn't a good thing

[jovial hazel]

It is.

[grizzled matrix]

no, it is not

[jovial hazel]

I guess it's subjective. But I see it as a good thing. I don't really have any interest in arguing that side of it, obviously we are interested in a different kind of game. But in the end there will be modding so hopefully we will also get a more casual The Isle experience.

[frigid tide]

It's quite literally the single most unbalanced thing ever added

[jovial hazel]

This is the hardcore horror survival experience the devs are working on.

Unbalance is the whole point.

[keen garnet]

I hope they do because herbivores with side facing eyes like stego and teno would still have near 360 while omnis would have maybe 200 or so

[frigid tide]

That's just bad game design

[jovial hazel]

If you can't wrap your head around 60 different dinosaur species needing to be different and feel unique and fov/camera changes being needed for that...

[keen garnet]

I mean if realism and lack of balance are the goal here...

Oh no, we grasp that. We just realize there are way better ways to make dinos feel different mechanically and the devs are literally already doing that.

[jovial hazel]

Obviously there is a vast amount of people that want a more casual experience. And I 100% argue for that as well. But we can have both in the end.

[keen garnet]

You're right, we can. If the fov is toggable we can totally have both.

[jovial hazel]

It won't be toggleable on a server designed and balanced around it, which is what the current official Evrima Experience is.

[frigid tide]

They definetely don't want it to be a toggle.

[jovial hazel]

They have said there will be modding on community servers, so hopefully these things will be customizable.

[frigid tide]

How far could the modding go?

[jovial hazel]

That's the question.

And that's what we should be pushing for.

It opens up so much possibility.

[keen garnet]

The current Evrima was made and design for 3rd person dinos and 1st person humans. Unless they overhaul the combat system, the close camera will make combat and hunting a nightmare.

[frigid tide]

I think the main goal is making things more difficult/unplayable

[jovial hazel]

I feel like that concern is valid. But I guess we will just have to see how they do it.

I feel like in the end, the change could be a good one for a hardcore horror survival.

[frigid tide]

Maybe. But it should definetely be a toggle for community servers

[limber hull]

it might be

[frigid tide]

I mean won't global chat also be on community servers?

[limber hull]

yes

[keen garnet]

It better be by the way things are looking in the community right now.

[proper otter]

I've always relied on my hearing a little more than sight honestly.

[keen garnet]

I rely on both

Spotting dinos across the field I can't hear yet as a baby dino or a hunter is very helpful

[frigid tide]

Also, how will deino work?

[jovial hazel]

Yeah, sound and general awareness definitely needs to be worked on as well.

[frigid tide]

It's whole gimmick is seeing things out the water

[jovial hazel]

I feel like it could allow better tracking and scent system too, to supplement the lack of visual awareness.

[proper otter]

I'm just glad people have 0 survival instincts and scream as often as possible.

[keen garnet]

There's also a lot of folks who are hearing impaired or who have eye strain issues who have to rely one way or the other

[jovial hazel]

But I think that's a "we'll see when we get there" situation.

[keen garnet]

Deino is one of the few creatures who'd be less effected. Since they can sense animals drinking and set up an ambush there.

[limber hull]

ideally it won't be able to do it that easily anymore lol

deino has had it way too easy in terms of vision for way too long

[proper otter]

I'm all for everyone getting to enjoy the game, but I dont think people like that should be trying a game like this. @keen garnet

[jovial hazel]

Exactly. And why not give other dinos that should have it tools to help their awareness. It doesn't have to be a drone camera, if anything that has been a bandaid the whole time for lack of other systems.

So hopefully it's not just "zoom camera" and done. It would involve other things that give the devs the ability to differentiate the playables.

[frigid tide]

Did you just say people that play games to enjoy them shouldn't play this as a good thing?

Just checking

[proper otter]

What? No?

Just saying it wouldn't be a good game for them to enjoy.

[frigid tide]

Oh. My bad.

[keen garnet]

Imagine for a second that you've been going to this amazing barbecue place for years. World renowned steak and ribs. So good it started an entire trend of restaurants to try and be like it. Folks come from across the globe to enjoy the ribs. After nearly a decade, they put up a sign that the entire restaurant will now serve sushi. You don't like sushi. No one you know likes sushi. A few people say well let's try it before we knock it (fair). Maybe five people actually want the sushi (also fair).

It's their kitchen. Their restaurant. But most us don't like sushi. We don't enjoy sushi. We like the steak that's been served for years here.

[frigid tide]

What are you going on about

[keen garnet]

It's not a perfect analogy but the gist of it still stands. Saying hey this game thats been mostly enjoyable for years might not be your thing if you don't like a major abrupt change to such an important part of it is a bit tone deaf...

Was replying to this might not be the game to enjoy comment

[jovial hazel]

It is valid. And the same thing happened with the stam changes. This game lost a lot of players, people that I played with. A lot of them.

But like I said. Instead of fighting their vision, we really need to be pushing for modding. We all get what we want.

[urban flax]

The perfect analogy would include mentioning that it had a sign that indicated it was meant to be a sushi restaurant from the start

[keen garnet]

The devs have done such a great job giving an amazing experience with mechanically rich dinos, beautiful animations, complex skin systems

[jovial hazel]

I want the hardcore survival. But I also enjoyed spiro deathmatch. I would enjoy both.

[frigid tide]

Then why sell steak in the first place?

[keen garnet]

Exactly

[urban flax]

That's where the analogy stops being relevant

[keen garnet]

They've sold us steak for so long

[limber hull]

it could be amazing sushi. The fact that the customers spamming 1 star reviews on the restaurant because it because they already decided they hate sushi is more concerning than the fact the restraunt decided to try something

[urban flax]

The Isle only was a good deathmatch because it was incomplete as a horror game

[jovial hazel]

It could still be both.

[limber hull]

the steak is still there. They've just added sushi, so you spam 1 star reviews on google

[jovial hazel]

People still enjoyed the deathmatch. The creation of one doesn't have to be death of another.

[proper otter]

Was that to my comment? I was saying people who are hard of hearing or have sight problems might not enjoy the game as much primarily for the fact that they can't hear well or see. Not that they can't come and enjoy it anyways.

[keen garnet]

The difference is the steak is replaced by the sushi. Or, in a better analogy, every piece of steak is covered in sushi

[limber hull]

im watching the analogy crumble before my eyes

[jovial hazel]

😂

[keen garnet]

No...no

[frigid tide]

Now I'm just hungry for steak

[jovial hazel]

^

[keen garnet]

It's still there xD

Steak is delicious

[proper otter]

I'm making steaks tonight B)
anyways

[jovial hazel]

Steak with sushi sounding kinda good.

[keen garnet]

Let's all go get steak instead xD

[slim lintel]

me on both accounts. i'm considered legally blind and hard of hearing

[proper otter]

I'm Cookin!

[slim lintel]

i get ambushed plenty because i can't hear dinos approaching LOL

[keen garnet]

Ouch. But fair haha.

[proper otter]

Oof bless your heart hun I couldn't imagine.

[slim lintel]

i main small species and make it worse on myself hahah. there was some feedback about noise indicators and those would be WONDERFUL but i doubt those would be implemented since the game wants to increase the "scare/horror" value

[proper otter]

Thats when you grow the biggest dino you can in some corner of the map until adult, then aint no one gonna bug you then

[keen garnet]

Eh folks still would. Rexes go down all the time on legacy. Indicators would be a lovely accessibility feature but I too doubt they'll be added

I bet you get tons of jump scares tho. 😳

[slim lintel]

all the time

i play with a headset and it helps but getting hit with the sudden flat line noise gets me LOL

[compact sequoia]

I am literally stuck and cannot free myself in that place

Help

[hexed holly]

Mention admin in one of of. servers i guess

Also. Carno jump is horrible idea. really

[compact sequoia]

Official server Au 1

[icy lion]

Check the pinned messages in #evrima-au to see how to request assistance

[latent olive]

sadly, the main issue with indicators in game, eg (trex broadcast in this direction) would be one of those must-have things to make the game easier, as a player

I WOULD like closed captions though

[compact sequoia]

Thank you

[idle briar]

yea "unstuck" in ESC is best way

[keen garnet]

From what I've noticed in other games that have indicators is that, while they are abused by some, the vast majority of those that use them actually need them. Plus an indicator that it was specifically a rex coming would be way too strong. A simple jiggle line that gets bigger or thicker or multiple lines for bigger steps in the direction of the sound would give no more information than hearing players get with just their ears. So it would both help those who need it, ratchet up tension if people see those big lines, and not give any extra advantage hearing players don't have.

There'd be no incentive to abuse it because it's not particularly abuse able.

[pseudo pumice]

As god as my witness, if they turn this walking sim into throw hands with camra imma lose it

[vestal rune]

@queen mortar I disagree with your feedback mate

[pseudo pumice]

Like deadass this will doom the game and will pretty much make the game unplayable. At this point I might aswell stay in Path of Titans. Atleast the devs arn't gonna ban someone for speaking the truth

[uncut zephyr]

It will not and that is a gross exaggeration

[vestal rune]

THE CAMERA SYSTEM? LMAO

[pseudo pumice]

Wdym???

[urban flax]

You know the rule
Every little thing they change will doom the game

[limber hull]

I've heard different stories about how the POT moderators react to certain things but you do you

[vestal rune]

guys I can't look at my dino real good the game is unplayable 💀

[vestal rune]

bro I got shadow banned from the PoT discord because I made fun of the game in dondi's discord server 💀 💀 💀

[limber hull]

not even just that, the game will die because of a system that apparently will be added and then never changed

[vestal rune]

I wasn't even mean I was just making fun of some of the animations

[limber hull]

there exists no universe where they change it based on feedback

[uncut zephyr]

"The very early access preview of a camera system rework that we've seen clearly means that they are going to destroy their game, they definitely won't listen to feedback from people actually using it in gameplay to tweak it and make changes if it is deemed bad"

[limber hull]

this has NEVER happened before for ANY controversial system

stamina changes are EXACTLY as they were on Gateway's launch

[vestal rune]

but the isle devs NEVER change things based on feedback, remember how they had that night vision system that everyone hated and just kept it in?

[limber hull]

i still hate the fact that NV causes siezures and the devs never fixed that

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah. Becuase they almost NEVER listen

[vestal rune]

they literally REMADE the game because people didn't like it 💀

absolute insane take

[uncut zephyr]

If it actually makes people stop playing the game why would they NOT change it

[queen mortar]

emojis

[vestal rune]

[latent token]

I mean the last entry in general feedback is just mindblowing tome

[limber hull]

herbivores being playable? community feedback caused that
deinocheirus being on the roster? it was a frequently requested animal from the community
recent stamina changes? based on community backlash
global chat being confirmed for unofficials? simply because the community wanted it

so except for those 4 examples i can get off the top of my head, yes

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah there is pretty much no point at this point.. If they add it imma tweak out

[vestal rune]

good for you buddy

[urban bear]

I'm fine W the camera if the add it and tweak it based on feedback we give in a horde test

[limber hull]

Oh they should absolutely horde test it

Allow people to get a feel for it and make judgement

[urban bear]

but overall I don't like the concept of it as of now but we will see

[vestal rune]

no way they're not gonna horde test a fundamental change in a basic mechanic lol

[thin frost]

I still feel like they should let the players adjust the camera, that way we can have the zoomed out AND the zoomed in camera
It would let people craft their own personal experience and adjust it to be best for combat, immersion, and ambushing

[limber hull]

This is what we call being mature. You can not like something, but still "see how it turns out" and reserve final judgements.

[vestal rune]

devs have done a lot of goofy stuff before but that would take the cake

[urban bear]

its going to impact gameplay in few different ways, I would not mind a horde test tbh

[uncut zephyr]

I don't get why people can't just wait until the devs have finished working on it so they can actually test it and then formulate feedback based on experiences with the system

[zinc knoll]

while I get that having options is nice I don't get why people think having an option between the two cameras is good. it goes against the reason why they're adding the new system in the first place

[limber hull]

all the hate has honestly made me more excited to see it in action tbh

[nocturne grove]

They literally said its getting changed regardless so I guess its better to let them make that choice and learn when 70% of the daily players refuse to look at the back of a raptors head and instead go find something else to play

[limber hull]

(except the cam isn't like that and shows a good portion of the body)

[urban bear]

I mean yeah having it toggleable for servers is fine, it is a sandbox after all.

[nocturne grove]

Are we seeing the same changes?

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah, that's what i'm afraid of

[limber hull]

yes. the most recent screenshots show off basically the omni's whole body

[stable blaze]

Oh, did they finally get more comparison screenshots while I was dead asleep?

[nocturne grove]

Literally just make the new camera and option you can turn on and off with a key and it fixes everything

[mint dawn]

Insisting on a more realistic camera angles and then they proceed to make the FOV closer to human FOV than an actual animal 🤡

[limber hull]

defeats the point of the camera

[zinc knoll]

if they make it an option like that they might as well not add it (though it seems we're getting server options)

[limber hull]

everyone is supposed to see things the same

[latent token]

I personally uninstalled after the stamina nerf, came back to see the state of the game, and saw this whole new ordeal. I'm litterally half sad, half laughing. Realizing I'll never get too see again the game I love 🥲

[hollow mirage]

Yup imo it looks nice
When I was playing teno I noticed most of my tail was in my face anywayd lol

[pseudo pumice]

But I need to geuinly need to know why they would do this?? Ambushing was still viable, you just needed skill to pull it off

[stable blaze]

I'd prefer a server option as opposed to a personal player option

[nocturne grove]

So you want everyone locked in the new one?

[limber hull]

that's how they want it.

[vestal rune]

bro your mind fascinates me

[limber hull]

everyone should have the same way of seeing things

[vestal rune]

the isle community gonna turn me into a psychologist

[limber hull]

honestly, the new camera might make it that i don't need to constantly try and avoid my colossal tail clipping into my cam

[hollow mirage]

Its going to be ok, do you need minmi pictures? I look at minmi pictures when Im stressed out
The camera is adjusted on small dinos so they can see and it still allows you to view your surroundings and your dinosaur

[nocturne grove]

Honestly yeah you’re so right let them add the new camera I personally think the playercount will shoot to 60k

[pseudo pumice]

They could've gaved us new dinos, or better ai, or ANYTHING else.. But nah we need a new cam system even though NOONE asked

[latent token]

The fact update after update this game worsened, is mind boggling.

[verbal vector]

Yeah, cause the new camera is hot garbage and we don't need to test it to be able to see that, they know that of they give us the option no one will use it so they force it on us.

[zinc knoll]

if they have it as an option this will be what it's like

[limber hull]

"no one asked for it" is such a bizarre take

no one asked for a complete recode of the game

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah.. Please.. I do hope they make Minmi and Magi wrrestler type dinos

[vestal rune]

something something WIP gotta figure out what works something something

[latent token]

WIP for how many years friend

[thin frost]

7 years 💀

[pseudo pumice]

Ok?? Still no one wanted or asked for a new camra. The recode was fine, but why the hell did they think "We should remake this camra"

[vestal rune]

idk probably a couple more

[nocturne grove]

Didnt they say legacy was impossible to update and they had no choice? They have a choice to not change the cam literally no one asked for or needs it

[zinc knoll]

yeah because everyone wants advantages and power, it's less about liking and more about just being better

[latent token]

7 years ...

[stable blaze]

I mean... honestly? Assuming the camera isn't just purely zoomed in and not fully set on the head movement-wise, I could see the new camera system being useful for looking up at things without your dinosaur getting in the way too much

[floral spire]

What are all of your opinions of the camera changes? I'm just curious about why you think it'd be a worthy change or, if and why you'd dislike it.

[zinc knoll]

I legit think it'll be fun and I'm excited

[vestal rune]

tbf I'm worried centering the camera on the head would make combat a pain

[pseudo pumice]

How the hell???

[limber hull]

im waiting to actually see more than just in-dev screenshots to make a final judgement.

Controversial, I know

[lilac bolt]

Just because we didn't ask for it doesn't make it a bad thing?

[pseudo pumice]

Broski. If you are a small dino you ain't gonna be able to see above the grass, watch

[floral spire]

I mean, it's completely fair. I'm currently against it, but who knows

[urban flax]

They just have to make the camera the same as in Primal Carnage when aiming with spitters, and boom, it's great

[hollow mirage]

They are working on the other dinosaurs. They dont show us everything anymore because the community freaks out when shown things. The camera system may seem like all the effort is focused on it, but I assure you its not - its only a small fraction of the things dondi showed us

[limber hull]

They added a system to see through tgrass as a small dino with the new cam

[vestal rune]

I remember a while ago in legacy when you'd zoom in it would zoom in on your head (this was fun to do with pue lol) and it wasn't game breaking it was kinda neat

[verbal vector]

taking away 75% of your vision isnt a particularly good thing

[zinc knoll]

we already can't see above the grass as juvies, and they're solving that problem anyways

[thin frost]

Exactly @somber wraith , an adjustable camera would be perfect. Similar to that of legacy in the way it can be altered

[latent token]

Camera was ever an issue. Stamina was never an issue except for bigger animals.

Night vision was never an issue

[urban flax]

How is it taking away 75% of your vision lol

[pseudo pumice]

Weirdly enough. I cannot wait for this lili guy and magi

[lilac bolt]

The camera will be raised for smaller dinos

[limber hull]

CHANGE NOTHING, EVERYTHING MUST REMAIN AS IT WAS, GAME CANNOT BE UPDATED OR IT WILL DIE

[zinc knoll]

removing something = / = negative

[vestal rune]

night vision caused eye strain?

[nocturne grove]

I didn’t say that but what does make it a bad thing is makes the game way less enjoyable and not as worth to play when ur THAT zoomed in but id also like to see the new ss that @limber hull is talking about so I can properly judge if the zoom in is bad

[urban flax]

real

[vestal rune]

idk maybe you're refering to something else

[floral spire]

I personally think it's not a good idea.

[stable blaze]

I don't know how to feel about it. I feel less worried about it than I was when it was first mentioned and showed off on stream because of the horrific first impression we were given, especially after seeing another screenshot at some point, it didn't seem that bad. Honestly? It might be kinda cool? I'm not sure yet, I feel like I don't have enough information now that I've seen a bit more of what they mean. I don't entirely agree with the reasonings behind the camera changes, but I'm not fully against it like I was at first because I was still under the impression that you'd be seeing the back of your dino's head the entire time (you won't be)

[pseudo pumice]

9/10 out of the time, YES

[verbal vector]

Explain to me how this change is good

[vestal rune]

removing global chat was an improvement lol

[pseudo pumice]

WHO TF ASKED FOR THE CAM CHANGE??

[zinc knoll]

immersion and making fights possibly more fair

[vestal rune]

dondi probably

[latent token]

It's true I remember reading that. I understand the need to change but surely it can't stay the way it is

[zinc knoll]

ofc I don't actually know, we only have access to some screen shots

[floral spire]

How'd it be more fair?

[pseudo pumice]

Ok.. How will it improve immersion and making fights better?

[urban flax]

A lot of games today have a over-the-shoulder camera instead of being zoomed out far away
There's not reason for it to go bad

[verbal vector]

We already have a constant blindspot wherever we arent looking and any dino that gets within that distance will already be too close for you to react

[pseudo pumice]

The old cam is fine

[vestal rune]

it can't stay as it currently is? I imagine it will change further the current iteration seems more of like a "make an NV that works"

[urban flax]

And with a different camera that blindspot could be removed
Because your dino won't get in the way anymore

[verbal vector]

They want more blindspots

[cyan flame]

Make you feel more like you are the playable in question, is my take on it. First person, or close to it, does make it more immersive in that sense. As for making fights better, depends, the only thing we've really heard is "stego can see too much", which I am concerned about because it could easily go the other way and make stego even worse off.

[pseudo pumice]

Imma laugh when this new cam system turns out to be garbage

[verbal vector]

not less

[nocturne grove]

He literally proved this on accident while streaming stego there was literally 2 directions he couldn’t see and wouldn’t be able to react to but ig ambushes are impossible on this cam

[latent token]

atm some species have been unplayables for weeks, ptera we lookin at you

[zinc knoll]

it's much more immersive to have a camera closer to your character than something that floats above you and is basically all seeing. you can just flick spin your camera and boom within 1 second you're aware of everything around you.
in fights you'll need to actually pay attention to people's locations and such, there's also the steg example

[stable blaze]

I'd much rather they work on more pressing matters than the camera, but if the end result ends up being an improvement to the current camera, then maybe it was worth it? Again, I really don't know how I feel about it right now. Lots of people are freaking out over it (for valid reasons from the first impressions they would have gotten), while others are looking past that first impression and actually getting a look at what will really be happening.

[verbal vector]

foliage go brrrrr

[zinc knoll]

I'm not talking about ambushes if that's what you mean

[pseudo pumice]

The old cam was still really immersive.

[lilac bolt]

It not like they're not working other things just another thing that they want to work on

[floral spire]

It's still quite difficult to react. You get maybe a half second, IF we're being generous

[verbal vector]

But that's the devs reasoning for this, they are claiming ambushes are impossible because we can see too much apparently

[zinc knoll]

I'm aware, that doesn't mean the devs don't get to experiment ever

[floral spire]

Since when were ambushes "Too hard?"

[zinc knoll]

I'm pretty sure that's not exactly what they said

[verbal vector]

They are very much doable if you know what you're doing

[pseudo pumice]

That statement is was hot garbage. You can still pull off ambushing, it just took more skill

[stable blaze]

True, they do have a dev team after all, so it's not like all their resources are going into this. It's still one or more resources going into it though, when they could focus on issues other people pointed out, like NV still needing tweaks so cera and stegos are at least playable at night, and probably many other things not coming to my mind

[pseudo pumice]

You and some others are like the only voice of reason

[nocturne grove]

Like theres no way they play the game if they think you cant ambush easily

[hollow mirage]

C:
-small dinosaurs have a raised camera
-close grass will be see-through when a small dinosaur like hypsi
-you will be able to see your own dinosaur and skin
-they can add more visual effects this way like the new scent system

[cyan flame]

People using the "can't ambush" as an argument for why current camera is bad are just bad players that lack the understanding of what an ambush is. Same with camera lock. You could ambush perfectly fine in legacy, even in progression with the rex being as slow as it was in that mode.

If you can't ambush, or couldn't ambush in legacy that was because you just didn't understand what an ambush is and means, and how to do one

[latent token]

there is so much to immersion than just the camera positioning. The game WAS immersive and we could ambush

[zinc knoll]

I don't agree with the ambush statement personally, but I'm also a casual so they could be right lol

[verbal vector]

I have been ambushed many times because I was simply not paying as much attention as I should have and the other player was a good hunter, camera had absolutely zero to do with that

[pseudo pumice]

Bootlicker #20343 has joinned

[zinc knoll]

argument won

[thin frost]

Its really about appropriate management and focus.

When the game is in the state it is in right now, put "extra" to the side and focus on fixing the bugs, hacking, and optimization, then move towards cameras and bees and whatnot

[hollow mirage]

You are a silly goober everyone is getting very heated and needs to calm down

[pseudo pumice]

Ambushing needs the attacker to have game sense to pull off

[floral spire]

Or a bush

[nocturne grove]

Honestly just let the camera change happen its inevitable and I doubt anyone is returning when this game is back of my omnis head simulator with a whopping 3 players

[verbal vector]

It shouldn't be easy, the risk of potentially losing everything with every critical choice is what makes this game fun

[zinc knoll]

idk why I'm arguing, it doesn't go anywhere

[pseudo pumice]

Becuase your in the wrong..

[zinc knoll]

or maybe people refuse to listen

it's ok, I guess I'll just go do something better with my time, byee

[stable blaze]

Or you both are set on your own opinions so far that neither of you will convince one another that the other side is right. You both have valid concerns, but neither of you are listening to one another

[verbal vector]

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinions I think some of us just disagree on a fundamental level of what the game should be

[pseudo pumice]

How are we refusing to listen?? I would like to be able to SEE things. No one asked for this god danmed change

[zinc knoll]

it feels as if whenever people talk about this, it's always 'they're doing this bcs of ambushes' which is not the truth

[floral spire]

It's certainly part of the truth

[latent token]

We can also agree to disagree. These subjects of the past weeks have been obviously quite dividing 😕

[nocturne grove]

I get what you mean but despite their reasoning nobody is going to sit on this game with that new camera

[thin frost]

I agree with you about the camera fov sucking, but it isnt a discussion to say "You're in the wrong".

[pseudo pumice]

Mf's wanna play cheese neck simulator now

[pseudo pumice]

They fired off the first shot with that "People refuse to listen"

[zinc knoll]

I can go gather some screenshots of dondi talking about why he's pushing this if you want

[cyan flame]

Doesn't matter if "no one asked", because the devs clearly think things needs to be changed to fit their vision. No one asked for some playables to work the way they do, but we still have that. No one asked for stamina changes, we got them anyway. And so on.

[latent token]

You gotta realize, as someone who pops in here every couple of weeks, what I'm seeing ain't happy lol

[floral spire]

We can see too much? Stego's too OP?

[zinc knoll]

do you want them or not

[floral spire]

I don't see those as reason to change the camera

[pseudo pumice]

I'm fine with new playables. I'm a day 1 Magi defending. I just do not like the new camra..

[verbal vector]

Regardless of why it's happening doesn't change the fact that it will break the game. In my humble opinion

[nocturne grove]

Just gotta let the devs follow their vision even if it puts the game 6ft under

[pseudo pumice]

Just make Magi a hippo like playable. That would be funny to watch it roll over some poor raptor into the ground

[latent token]

There has to be a balance inbetween.

[thin frost]

I NEED MAGY
Im still sad it didnt come out in 5.0 😦

[zinc knoll]

nvm then, have a good day yall

[floral spire]

You too

[pseudo pumice]

Yeah.. Stupid ahh take "Let the devs follow their vison" it doesn't matter how bad their vision is

[verbal vector]

You can send them if you want, at the very least it may provide some context for those who are unaware.

[cyan flame]

Wasn't quite my point, more so that things happen even if no one asks for them, because the devs want it that way. I'll take my own example. No one asked for stego to function like a scorpion, but it's what it does, because for some reason the devs think it should. And as for the camera, I'll wait and see, I don't think it'll be as bad as we imagine, and it might not even change much, since part of it seems to be Dondi using the wrong camera and thus may have misunderstood how it currently looks in game.

[nocturne grove]

Imagine if the devs thought this way

[cyan flame]

I mean, it honestly doesn't. The devs are making the game for themselves, if they want to "ruin" it they can

[uncut zephyr]

Look with the camera changes you are allowed to be concerned, but you should keep an open mind, and at least wait until you’ve tried using the new system before making hateful presumptions and knocking on the dev team by saying they suck and will kill their game. What we’ve seen so far is still very early wip, it’s a fundamental change and I would be shocked if they didn’t horde test it to see how people feel about it too.

[latent token]

@Kure At some point, both developers and comunity needs to understand each other and work along. u can't conquer by dividing.

[cyan flame]

And any change can be "excused" with "you can mod/go on unofficial"

[verbal vector]

You as well

[pseudo pumice]

I sorta like how Stego can defend it's self from almost every angle. But these mf's wanna change the cam for no god danm reason other then "Muh vimson" to hell with teir vision

[floral spire]

That's the issue, they're making it for themselves when they have a fairly large playerbase.

Changes should be made for the good of the game and the community, not just what the Devs want.

[pseudo pumice]

Exactly.. They wanna listen to themselves, not us

[uncut zephyr]

Changes only happen if the devs have a vision they want to follow

[vestal rune]

if they add the camera system in it's finished form, and the community tests it and doesn't like it, they'll probably remove it

[uncut zephyr]

They need to accomodate for players yes, but ultimately they are the deciding factor

[latent token]

It's impossible for a video game to succeed without the approval of it's community. It feels to me as The Isle developpers may well understand that very soon if they don't change they way of thinking very quickly

[vestal rune]

devs would be stupid if they immediatly followed community outrage, especially this community's outrage

[stable blaze]

I'd like to think that worst case scenario, if the camera changes are so horrifically bad, they'll be a server option or scrapped entirely. Though, I do agree that the devs should take a bit more of their playerbase's concerns into consideration to an extent. People do have a good point, why does the camera need to be changed now? This feels like it wouldn't be so horribly taken by the community if A. the first impression from that stream wasn't bad, and B. they already were focusing more on existing issues, not focusing on things that, in my opinion, could wait (the camera 'issue') in line for those more important things to be taken care of

[verbal vector]

Thinking the camera will break the game is not hateful. Calling the devs names or mocking their intelligence or something like that is, but criticism and hate are not interchangeable. I am keeping an open mind but from everything I have seen and heard so far I have no reason to be optimistic about the change, and I should not be called hateful for feeling that way. I know there are some people who genuinely are being hateful and not saying anything constructive in response but not all of us who disagree are like that.

[pseudo pumice]

They ain't.. Who you fooling

[cyan flame]

No, the issue is that "we" don't understand that the game is primarily their passion project and that "we" as a playerbase have little say in it. Changes should be made for the purpose of the game, and the purpose of this game is not to make the playerbase/community happy, but the devs vision. That's the focal point of conflict. And it's not helped by the fact that "we" are in many ways, not the "right" playerbase, but a playerbase that have gathered around what a half finished game offers, and not the full, intended experience.

[pseudo pumice]

THEN WHY THE HELL MAKE THIS GOD DANM GAME???? THEY ARE DEVS, THEY NEED TO LISTEN TO BOTH THEMSELVES AND THE PLAYERBASE

[verbal vector]

I wonder how much passion they will have for their project when the majority of the playerbase leaves.

[thin frost]

Chillout man

[cyan flame]

Maybe it does relate to stegos new attacks, or even the new abilities or trike and rex, and all. Maybe they can do something that with current camera would make it unbalanced, and thus a fix is needed. Or maybe the devs just want a different feel now, now that the game is getting closer to their vision. Or maybe in secret humans are coming and they want to adjust dino cameras to fit. I have no idea, but there could be multiple things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about that could affect why a change is happening.

[verbal vector]

Maybe the camera will be great we'll never know for sure until it's implemented, but I'm a staunch realist and see little reason to be optimistic about this,

[latent token]

There is no way to lock an angle on a camera and make it feel good

So they can't do that

[fallow mesa]

real

[uncut zephyr]

I have seen more examples of people saying that the camera system will doom the game and that the devs are killing it, I understand that there are few reasons for optimism currently but once again, it is VERY early wip, and it seems like dondi may have made an error on his part anyways. People offering constructive criticism is fine, but when they are simply saying “camera bad, do not add” how does that help with anything but fuelling a stigma against the devs

[cyan flame]

They are making the game so they get a game they want. That's the reason. Dondi is making the game he has always wanted. Not the game I or someone else have always wanted. That's why they will also offer mods and unofficial settings, so the rest of us can get an experience we want as well. But the official settings are meant to be what the devs want.

[cyan flame]

The same theyv'e always had. I don't think that changes based on how many else likes your ideas or vision. Also I doubt the majority will leave. Despite what it looks like, the noise in here is far from the majority of the entire playerbase. I've seen upvotes ranging to like 300, we have 3K+ players.

[verbal vector]

True, but I don't have the funding to pursue any of my creative passion because none of my projects are paid for by thousands of people who also love them.

[latent token]

But it should tho, no? We are the game...? No ?

[verbal vector]

They may be the ones developing the game but we're the ones keeping the lights on.

[hollow mirage]

We are the beta testers

[cyan flame]

No, we're just the players. A dead game, if the game ends up dead, still exist. And I doubt it will end up dead. This whole reaction is no different from every other time it's been a reaction to a change.

[lilac bolt]

Definitely does make it harder to want to work on the game when every idea that's shown get immediately shut down

[latent token]

A game is like a ship bruh, the crew matters 🥲

[floral spire]

Imagine making a business that sells books about cats. These books are successful to a community that likes cats. This business then makes books about crocodiles. Less people like this book as it not aimed at its demographic. Then they completely change the format of storytelling. That is what the devs are doing. Alienating their playerbase with a vision for a game for the wrong demographic and playerbase.

[hollow mirage]

Yeah I've never seen people get this angry!

[vestal rune]

They literally did this with night vision please😭

[verbal vector]

If they didn't care about making money or other people playing their game why release it, if they're only making it for themselves.

[hollow mirage]

My favorite quote ever

[cyan flame]

The issue is that the business was never about that in the first place. So the comparison falters quite a bit.

[floral spire]

I suppose, but I think you can understand my point.

[lyric cosmos]

I think if there was some middle ground where the developers could consider the camera changes with the feedback from the player base in mind would be ideal, but this seems pretty one-sided and out of touch

[floral spire]

Demographics are important

[thin frost]

Its hard to treat a 7 year old game like early access lol

[floral spire]

The Isle is multiplayer after all

[cyan flame]

I do, but you can change your target demographic from one to the other. Yes the first group will be upset, but the second one will be happy. If you want to compare like that.

[verbal vector]

I paid money for this product, money that I worked hard for, therefor I have a right to show concern for the quality of the product which I supposedly own.

[solid belfry]

9 years btw

[thin frost]

9 💀

The sad part is the game FEELS like early access with the degree of problems, but 9 years does the idea of early access dirty

[floral spire]

The Isle is already fairly obscure. I doubt it will gain a significant following even after the demographic is changed.

[cyan flame]

@floral spireThink of it this way. You intend to make a game a certain way, you have a vision. You create prototypes, to test mechanics, and so on. You decide to let people play these prototypes because why not, they can have some fun. You now gather a playerbase that like your unfinished prototype, that does not work the way the full, finished game will. So now, when you try to make your game, the intended way, you get a conflict. Do you see the issue?

[thin frost]

Unless they add the bloop

[hollow mirage]

My favorite isle quote! Ever!

[cyan flame]

Consdering I imagine things will change quite a bit when we get humans in the game, I'm not so sure

[lilac bolt]

Yeah with evrima it basically did a reset on all development they had to start from scratch

[floral spire]

Wasn't Legacy the original? If I understand right, humans weren't planned until much later in developement, AFTER it established itself as a dinosaur game.

[cyan flame]

No, not at all.

[verbal vector]

The devs can have whatever vision they want but that doesn't mean I have to accept it. I didn't buy the game to get down on bended knee and submit my will to the dev's wishes. I bought it to enjoy it. If I don't enjoy it I will say so and I will tell others why I do not so they can save their money.

[icy lion]

The very first release of the game only had playable humans

[lyric cosmos]

You are talking about this as if they did not make a decent amount of money off of people buying said game, keep in mind this is a product that was sold to people. Those people are now unhappy with changes to the product that they bought, it's not irrational for them to be frustrated.

[cyan flame]

Humans were always planned, herbis were not planned to be playable, and you were only meant to have three carnis, with strains.

And so on. There's been massive changes

[floral spire]

Fascinating

[icy lion]

The very first intention for this game was to have playable humans and dinos

[floral spire]

Thanks for the correction

[verbal vector]

I'm interested to see how they will be implemented if they ever do get around to it

[cyan flame]

No offense to you, but you do kind of prove the point I'm trying to make here :p

[floral spire]

XD I suppose so

[lilac bolt]

How long has evrima been in development?

[thin frost]

Yup. Legally, its early access, theres no promises. That doesnt speak for the social impact of leaving a game to dry in early access, and doesnt stop the community from being irritated.
I got my 20 bucks worth prior to the game falling off, so im good.

[hollow mirage]

Shhshsh im sleeping zzz no more pinging shshsh zzzz

[icy lion]

I believe it started in mid to late 2019

Not true

[verbal vector]

^^^^^

There's a reason a lot of people stay away when they hear early access

[thin frost]

Sorry I misread, I thought they meant the game itself

[verbal vector]

cause a lot of games are stuck there for eternity

[cyan flame]

Doesn't matter. You bought it in early access, with the understanding that what you currently got was not the finished game, and may not reflect the intended experience. No, it's not irrational for them to be frustrated, not at all. That is not what I am saying either. I am merely pointing out that the game, as described and envisioned, is what you bought into. You didn't buy into the "current prototype". But the problem is that the current prototype we got, was fun in it's own way, and thus in a sense became a game of its own, if you see what I'm trying to say here?

The issue in a sense has become that a lot of people bought the game for what it currently offered, without understanding that the "current offer" didnt reflect the intended game

[lilac bolt]

Hopefully after elders get added we can start getting dinos a little quicker

[hollow mirage]

New favorite quote

[thin frost]

They aught to update the steam page

[cyan flame]

And while it is understandable to be frustrated with losing something you like, you're arguing that the devs should abandon their goal and keep the "prototype" because it works as a game of it's own

[lyric cosmos]

I do, and I agree to a certain degree, but I also strongly disagree on some other aspects of what you're saying

[hollow mirage]

They are advertising legacy not evrima though

[latent token]

You know there's some limitations to your argumentary ! When you buy somethin, early access or not, the end product is supposed to match the description of your purchase don't you think?

[thin frost]

Thats my point, legacy is never going to be updated, evrima is the current game for the last 5 years, the steam page only shows legacy

[cyan flame]

Fair enough. I think I have a less "invested" outlook because when I got it, I knew that Dondis vision was going to be "bad" to me. So I went into this with "If I get x hours of being a dino in the game for my money, I'll consider it fair enough" and "They make grand claims about mods and settings, so even if Dondis vision is bad, I'll wait for an unofficial to suit me".

[floral spire]

That's unfortunate

[hollow mirage]

They are gonna remove legacy later when more of the mechanics are fleshes out iirc
I dont know where its going tho

[cyan flame]

So I always had much more of a "I know this game is going to change from what it is, so if I buy it for what it is, I will end up losing that, until mods"

[jovial hazel]

^

[hollow mirage]

Legacy does but evrima is new

[lyric cosmos]

I think that the game has been out for about 8 years now and we've never had an issue with the camera specifically, so why we're trying to change it now when nobody asked for it, it's never come up as a problem before- outside of not being able to look up, I've always hated not being able to look up, but the orbital camera has been a pretty core piece of how you view the game and how you view the world and how combat works, to change it now after all of this time does not seem to make any sense to me... I really don't feel like the developers are playing their own game, because this just is so strange to me

[cyan flame]

Yes, and it does, and will. The problem is that people think it's a "dino sim" when it's not. The game is intended to match what they wanted, but the current "game" does not match what they want

[hollow mirage]

Ahhh here comes the camera speak again

Goodnight

[cyan flame]

Oh yes, they absolutely should. A long time ago, really.

[thin frost]

Its very strange to me they havent, like it only helps them marketing wise.

[cyan flame]

In part, I think it's Dondi misunderstanding what the current Evrima ingame camera looks like. In part, I think it's because they do want this horror theme, and the "feeling like the playable" sentiment. Why do they want it, or why do they want it now, I have no idea. But there is a reason behind it, and it's probably more than what we know, since we know little of what's really going on.

[floral spire]

I never realized that the Isle was going to add humans, until a few years ago a little after Evrima was first launched. If they want players to see that it's a game about dinosaurs and humans, they should update the Steam page, or advertise it differently.

[cyan flame]

Is the current camera a "problem"? No, not really. But it does not mean it gives the feel the devs want, and therein lies the reason for the change I think.

[icy lion]

The Steam page states that human gameplay is planned

[cyan flame]

Is current stego tail jabs a "problem", no. Do I personally think it's how a stego should work and feel? No, I could write an entire essay of my issues with the devs take on stego as a playable

[lyric cosmos]

I've been playing the Isle long enough now where I've seen a few controversies, some of them got blown out of proportion, some of them were valid... I'm going to wait to see how the finished camera system is before truly making a decision on it, but I do have some concerns about this change- still excited for some of the other changes lol

[cyan flame]

It's not a perfect example, but I think you all get what I'm trying to say

[icy lion]

It'll also be updated once evrima is made the main branch, and so far it seems like that'll happen after mutations and elders are implemented

[verbal vector]

Well I'm off to enjoy the good camera while we still have it. Have a great weekend everyone and watch the treetops

[floral spire]

It still feels a little off. You have to read the "Early Access" tab. I don't know a lot of people who do that. Just look at the pictures, maybe some reviews, then buy it.

[cyan flame]

Same. I do think the screenshots Dondi showed off looked okay from the side, it's the "look in front" that I think might be a problem. Of course, I'm not sure how they intend to make stego and even teno function well, but at the same time I will trust that they won't ruin the playables. I can't seem them go "Ah yes, we have these playables that attack with their tails, well, new camera just doesn't work for them, too bad for the playables". So I will trust that they will figure something out, or scrap the camera concept if they can't.

[floral spire]

Ah, and "About the Game"

Either way, thanks for the debate folks. I'm going to make some lunch. Night.

[icy lion]

oh no I think the reaction bot's acting up again

[empty sonnet]

Too many reactions 💀

[wintry whale]

I can't see the numbers go vroom

[copper cradle]

id give you a solid ✅ on your feedback

[wintry whale]

Thank

[honest ferry]

Thank you Monty it’s annoying to go to a channel made for feedback to complain about people giving feedback 🤣🤣

[compact fossil]

Np

[red glacier]

Don't add the camera changes dondi it's gonna ruin the game I haven't found many people that like the changes. Listen to your community or else you and your game are going under.

[drifting rose]

my check mark and x's aint showing up :/

[icy lion]

Yea the bot's been struggling today :(

Not sure if there's anything we can do to fix it

[drifting rose]

i say we beat him up till we get what we want

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpson-people-power-gif-8939538

[urban bear]

Just made a suggestion and it did the same thing

[drifting rose]

yea super says bots struggling :/ may aswell give up for today

save ur suggestions for tmr ig

[urban flax]

@lyric pollen Haha get Dyno'ed

[lyric pollen]

can u bump me? i didnt get reactions

or actually

just bump rumple

[icy lion]

Let's not, we don't need big chains clogging the channel in the hopes of getting the bot to work

[lyric pollen]

you're no fun 😡

[vast sable]

Little dinos like Troodon are going to struggle even more so with the new camera. I'm trying to at least wait until the new camera feature is out to judge it.

[icy lion]

Already considered #isle-discussion message

[vast sable]

Ah cool. He's already ahead of me.

[warped bridge]

🤓

[lofty nymph]

no way

[verbal leaf]

💀

[mellow vine]

Real

[stone geode]

Why is the camera being changed again?

[proud coral]

It's technically not guaranteed as it's been stated it may or may not work, and should it not, they will scrap it. But it's for several reasons. They want to amp up the horror a bit, and Don demonstrated a bit with an image of the new WIP camera showing a Rex coming at you (the perspective change makes it feel a lot more up close and personal O_o). They also want to make things like ambushing others require a bit more thinking compared to right now.

Though it's important to remember even with what we've seen so far, it's been said there's still problems with it that they're currently working on and seeing what does and doesn't work

[stone geode]

Do you mean make the people BEING ambushed think more or the people AMBUSHING think more

[indigo gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/the-road-to-el-dorado-both-both-is-good-gif-8304204

[proud coral]

I guess technically both, but I'd say more so the one being ambushed. Less "lemme 360 my drone camera to see threats", more "I have to compensate for my animal's blindspots and be more vigilant"

[stone geode]

I find that dumb, with the camera locks while eating and drinking which makes ambushing easy enough. The new camera system is just going to encourage more camp growing. The water lock and eating lock already make ambushing easy enough and make people cautious, the new camera would just make players paranoid from ever leaving a safe area except for eating and drinking (which people are going to only do in need of food or water)

Im not even a PvPer btw

[hollow mirage]

@pearl flare #general-feedback message
I believe droughts are planned 😄

[pearl flare]

oh really? thanks for claring that up 🙂

[hollow mirage]

Yup but floods may bring deinos out to play (iirc) so beware 😉

[pearl flare]

even more fun!

[icy lion]

@graceful raven We have acess to deleted messages, you can ask any mod to copy a deleted message you want to have!

[graceful raven]

oh thats great! thank you :)

[icy lion]

Of course we'll only share your own messages for obvious reasons, but it's always something you can ask

[mint dawn]

Can't wait for the motion sickness and migraines 👍

[summer thistle]

They said they’re trying to avoid it but I don’t think that will really be possible

[mint dawn]

Can we atleast get rear view mirrors?

If you're going to implement a camera that is closer to human FOV than an animal, surely we could have mirrors and parking radars...right?

[summer thistle]

I already get small headaches if I try to grow a deino without any breaks

[latent olive]

bro

thats like 5 hours straight, no wonder your heads gonna hurt lmao

[summer thistle]

Where’d that suggestion go

[limber hull]

Staring at a computer screen for over 5 hours will do that

That ain't an Isle thing, that's a general health and wellbeing thing lol

[ornate nimbus]

First person?!🤔

[limber hull]

No.

[ornate nimbus]

Yippie

[latent olive]

my feedsnack post is up 💪

[radiant nest]

@timber coral there are some parts of the current camera system that definitely need fixing, unrelated to the new design, such as looking up being very difficult without having your body and a bunch of foliage in the way

[hexed anchor]

I'm trying to figure out exactly what the new camera system is. Is it like Truck Simulator where you have to manually switch viewpoints?

[icy lion]

Not at all

[hexed anchor]

What is it exactly? I watched the clip where Dondi explained it and I didn't get it

[icy lion]

So far this is the most recent preview we've seen, it's still completely subject to change in every way

Afaik the overall idea is to bring you a bit more inward on your dino, and to provide some limits to the range of your vision. The exact details are still being hashed out, especially since those would likely be unique to each dino (Don mentioned stego and galli hadn't quite been prototyped yet due to how awkward they are)

[hexed anchor]

Dang.

[icy lion]

@midnight heath There are no plans to make the dino cam first person, see above