#career-chat

1 messages Β· Page 92 of 1

turbid berry
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can you explain what is the average salary of unreal starter programmer ( who is still undergraduate, and want to do paid internship or contract? ).

hybrid phoenix
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No, there are too many variables involved. Look at places like Glassdoor for local estimates.

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Contracting and internships are also wildly different beasts from actual salaried positions.

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Internships are likely to be paid very poorly, if at all. Contracting is a matter of finding people that are willing to pay you for your work at a rate you're happy with. It's generally more challenging to find clients than you'd think.

turbid berry
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so what is the solution to get a decent job as a unreal programmer

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for example, the programmer

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is Bs computer science degree important? without 4 years degree, can i get job if i already have skills

nova tartan
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it is quite important for entry level, a lot of people don't get past initial screening without a degree

ashen lynx
flat gazelle
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Spend a few years growing up and figuring out what you enjoy doing. This discord server won't be able to make any of those decisions for you. You clearly are quite young and worried about the future. Let it take time. You don't need to figure it all out now.

turbid berry
steady pewter
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lol

ashen lynx
turbid berry
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i agree, but what is the truth in it, can please explain

hybrid phoenix
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Don't get on the wrong side of people

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That's all there's to it

plucky hatch
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But keep your mouth zipped, and absorb all of the information your fellow programmers can provide

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If you aren't confident in your programming abilities, you need to talk as little as possible while trying to take in every bit of helpful information you can

plucky hatch
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If you plan on doing your own projects, the degree part doesn't matter as much. However in my opinion, the CS Ba provides a very solid base understanding of programming and problem solving

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You won't code day in and day out. You'll learn to problem solve more than anything

hybrid phoenix
plucky hatch
hybrid phoenix
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Yee, figured, just wanted to clarify it

plucky hatch
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And I cannot stress this enough. ASK QUESTIONS

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If you don't know something ask. If you are confused on something, ask

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If you don't know how to do something, odds are one of your colleagues does.

steady pewter
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This server fits well that idea, lol

plucky hatch
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lmao

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You will never truly master any programming language. I've been using C++ for over 15 years and there are STILL things I have to ask questions about. Still things that confuse me

turbid berry
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thanks all of you for the advice

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yes that make sense

plucky hatch
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Just be determined. Determined to do your job the best you possibly can, determined to write beautiful code and determined to create a beautiful project

warped nexus
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@plucky hatch Do you know of any Unreal C++ or blueprint tutorials that you could recommend to a beginner? πŸ™‚

pure kettle
warped nexus
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As in complete beginner with no experience aside from messing about with Unity and making a basic platformer with C# with no animations or anything, just a jumping capsule xD

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@pure kettle Thanks man πŸ˜„

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Also if anyone has any tips or knows of any tools/resources they wish they learned about when they started please ping me with a reply, I'm happy to absorb anything

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Also Youtube channels and links to other Unreal Discords and communities would be super appreciated from anyone πŸ˜„

pure kettle
thin halo
warped nexus
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@thin halo Thanks for the advice πŸ˜„ Yeah I've heard some negative things about some Udemy courses in YT comment sections aswell :L Thankyou πŸ™‚

thin halo
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I have so much to say about that course... but let's not go there. β˜•

pure kettle
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Nay, it's the Sun Temple sample, which also repurposed in Spatial Audio sample.

soft kayak
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when you get no showed at an interview

digital gate
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should have tried to reach out

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if you didn't

soft kayak
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everything's fine now

idle void
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How to know when u are ready for a CPP programmer job?

merry tartan
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@idle void contact your favorite game developer and ask them for a programming test

digital gate
# idle void How to know when u are ready for a CPP programmer job?

Well first of all you should narrow it down. Do you mean Game or Engine? Do you want to focus on a specific area? (UI, Systems, Network layer, Tools)

Then, you can delineate levels of competency. You might be ready for a Jr position (which, good luck I don't think most places are hiring Jrs right now) but not ready for a Sr position.

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For a general midlevel Game code "Gameplay" position

I should be able to give you an idea and you can make it basically unsupervised. If you are working in the context of existing systems (GAS, say, or custom game code) you can leverage those. If not, your implementation of the mechanic does not preclude minor twists or related ideas being implemented quickly off the bones.

In example if I ask you to make physical ammo clips that can be dropped into the world and used on compatible guns that keeps track of the ammo, with the example of a M16, I should be able to follow up and ask you to implement a flamethrower and it take you <1hr (ideally it wouldn't require programming at all).

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That's not even mentioning the ability to work within a team, ofc

idle void
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Well I guess Imma keep making my own games for a while then

digital gate
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I had to wade through CustomThunks and other fun stuff before I got noticed

idle void
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I'm currently reading a networking book with unreal, and I barely understand anything but since its the first time I do something related to networking I have no doubt that I will get grasp of it sooner or later

idle void
digital gate
idle void
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That's nice, you gave me motivation now btw πŸ˜›

wary osprey
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Anything in particular? I've been meaning to learn React.js but im down for whatever is going to be in demand for the next few years.

craggy nacelle
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Node and React are pretty likely to be in demand for a while

ornate gyro
icy hare
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Is QA testing a good way to get a leg into the industry? And is there anything I could to make my resume stand out? Like I just got rejected by Square Enix so I’m kinda stressing out

royal lintel
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Ehhh. There's not much upward mobility in QA, especially since it's primarily contractors. Maybe into QA engineering/management. Moving from QA into dev/design/art isn't unheard of these days but it's certainly uncommon.
If you're good at networking and can handle the (possibly) long hours while trying to build up your skills otherwise... maybe. It's not exactly a great way to start though.

icy hare
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No matter how agonizing it is

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Tbh I’ll probably try to specialize in programming. I’m really into Python and Java and C++

hybrid phoenix
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Just go build a programming portoflio and apply as a programmer

lilac walrus
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plenty of people move from QA into other disciplines - so it's not the worst thing to do. The important thing to remember is that it's not working in QA that will allow you to move into said other discipline, so you still need to focus on developing your skills and portfolio

sinful prairie
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Hello everyone! I have a question, i've been hired to make a 3D animated series that will have copyright. It is legal to do it with the unreal free license? or should i pay? In that case, what kind of license i need?

craggy nacelle
sinful prairie
craggy nacelle
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Based on what it says on that page as long as it's a project you're doing for a client which is not published on some kind of storefront (ie. "off the shelf") then yeah

sinful prairie
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ok, thanks a lot!

digital gate
# lilac walrus plenty of people move from QA into other disciplines - so it's not the worst thi...

@icy hare to add on, you obviously need to build the skills of the role you want to transition to, but if you also build your QA skills it will help you.

I interact with some talented QA, and I can rely on their insight even if I actually wrote the system we're dealing with. Being able to point to your effective QA skills would not be a detriment.

That's a whole lotta hustle, I just went directly at my role until it worked out.

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also if you're reliant on the extra visibility, you want to go QA (any position) -> QA (internal fte)

plucky hatch
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Has anyone here experience with seeking grants (Other than the EPIC Megagrant) for the first stages of development. We have some here in Denmark, but I am also very open to International and European Union grants, as our team is in more than one country. If you know of any website that has updated lists for current openings, I would be very appreciative of your help.

plucky hatch
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Would recreating a scene inspired by The Last of Us 2 look good for my portfolio? What would recruiters think of such a scene?

pure kettle
wicked quail
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Are there any good resources for game-writing ya'll would recommend? i've come to realize i literally can't write a line of code or make an asset without a strong story guiding my decisions, which is a Problem when i need to be prototyping. Mostly advice on sceneario setup and how to block out a story's beats in a way artists/devs can work from.

pastel estuary
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there are a few videos about it on the gdc youtube channel, one of them actually goes over a lot of software and books one could use/read to learn stuff.

vagrant brambleBOT
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:clock2: Festus#6990 was muted for 5 minutes.

pure kettle
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I hope this is not you posting in the wrong server.

plucky hatch
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...

sage vigil
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I am a student do you guys know how to get an internship as a gameplay programmer?

lilac walrus
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Step 1: Find an advertisement for a gameplay programming intern
Step 2: Apply

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that's... about it to be honest

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companies that offer internships will usually advertise them one their websites

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but internships are pretty rare

sage vigil
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Ok

brittle shoal
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though a word of warning, if you walk in with a portfolio with a few puzzle games and a platformer with a quest system, all wrapped and polished as small games with title screens and the other expected bits to release them, you'll end up walking out with a job instead of an internship

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oh, and be ready to talk about code you wrote, not just throwing libraries together

sage vigil
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So will it be ok to put a lot of gameplay mechanics which I built with the source code

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In my portfolio

brittle shoal
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finished projects look a lot better than code snippets. IMO the best way to have code samples as part of your portfolio is to release a couple small projects on github and link to them

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keep in mind entry level gameplay programming is going to start as primarily fixing bugs, and then moving on to implementing the design a designer gives you. Focusing on showing off that you can make stuff work will put you miles ahead of people that are just trying to show game ideas they have. Showing some novel solutions you've come up with never hurts, but if they are interested in having you involved in designing how a mechanic works early on they'll ask you how you'd solve issues during an interview

high leaf
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I have been an engineer writing in JS and C++ for about 10 years. I am looking to move from engineering and eng-management to a more evangelist/devrel type role! I would love to hear about any positions you guys know about πŸ™‚

brittle shoal
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@sage vigil FWIW, just because I suggest focusing on one thing doesn't mean you can't also include other stuff. A resume should be succinct, but a portfolio can be vast as long as it's organized. There are very few "wrong" things to include; as long as you have some "right" ones they'll ignore the stuff they don't care about, and every place is different and some will be more interested than others.

dim sigil
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Hello everyone, just in case if anyone is interested in making anime style game in a startup studio, please DM me. Our team is looking for game dev and artists right now.

pure kettle
dim sigil
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Ah, my bad

topaz cosmos
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so i saw there is the unpaid gigs on the job board how do i sign up for one. i feel like i just need experience in development and dont care about being paid rn becuase I'm not some amazing programmer and I feel like job experience is more important the money

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it kinda annoys me when people complain about small projects not paying when i feel like the value of a completed project is more important

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yeah how do you join or talk to the unpaid gigs posts

flat gazelle
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I think the issue there is that the vast majority of unpaid gigs won't result in a completed project.

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It will likely be run by someone inexperienced and the gain is probably a lot less than you think.

topaz cosmos
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But I definitely don't qualify for any money.

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Being paid towards me

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Either way hoping to find a project to work on.

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I made one really good game for a game jam and it won technically in front of some pretty important devs. Other than that I really don't have a lot under my belt.

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How would I even contact these people

lilac walrus
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the posts in the board should have contact information, but tbh, most of those postings tend to not be things you want to pursue

topaz cosmos
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fair if you think so

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what do you think i should do then

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i mean tbh i know a guy who works for a big studio who told me what i should do

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but im also looking for other things

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and im working on those things he told me to do

azure pine
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looking for a 3d modeler

royal lintel
left ore
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I am looking for someone experienced in Microsoft Azure Kinect DK development that can help us with our Unreal Project

pure kettle
marsh stream
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Hi guys, I have a friend who knows the basics of Maya. But he is considering getting into Blender due to the abundance of resources it has, the growing community and of course how Blender is growing increasingly powerful. He does want to break into the industry and it seems Maya is mainly used (for larger companies). Any thoughts on how one goes about making this decision?
Do companies have a preferred software? Or do they a 'Whatever you use is fine for us, just get the world done' kind of mentality.
Ideally he'd know the basics of whichever software he doesn't select as his main 3d software.

urban stump
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Learn both.

hybrid phoenix
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The industry in many areas in starting to adopt the latter attitude; whatever DCC you use is fine, as long as it can be made to work with the general production pipeline. Blender is gaining ground. Nevertheless, Maya is prevalent and generally more well-integrated, so many place will rather have someone familiar with Maya than someone exclusively Blender-based. The safe route is to do what Zero said. Know Blender so you can use it where allowed, but be familiar with Maya so you can use it where you have to

shut tree
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if you can sculp or model in 1 program you can learn how to do it in another program in no time

hybrid phoenix
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The maya->blender userbase has found that to be a point of contention πŸ˜›

flat gazelle
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We are mainly Blender and Houdini at our studio now. People who join tend to migrate to it just because of the tools built for it inhouse.

urban stump
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We use both. Blender if the artist wants to use it but you still need to use the pipeline tools in Maya, so you can't survive without knowing it if you're an artist that needs to make assets.

marsh stream
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Alright, thanks for all the info! I'll be sure to let me friend know that knowing both is important! πŸ™‚

valid dune
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I just had a job offer for a Unreal Generalist Developer, they asked me what my salary expectations are. I have NO clue what I should be expecting. Looking up a generalist dev, is it the same as a full stack dev in comparison? Please someone let me know! @ me if you must!

royal lintel
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Heavily depends on location, company, area of the industry (AAA? Indie? Middleware provider? Support studio?), etc. Your best bet is to start looking on glassdoor for similar positions at the specific company you're looking at in addition to other similar ones.

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If your question is about game dev vs full stack developer, game dev will generally be a lower salary but even that has to come with a whole lot of asterisks based on circumstances. Do your research on the company and others like it.

digital gate
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@valid dune that title is somewhat vague and seems to not be standard. If it's comparable to "Gameplay Programmer" you could be looking at anything between $40k and $120k+ a year - that depends on your background and capabilities, plus the location and the studio.

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If they mean literally a generalist, eg full stack, your sliding scale starts higher (or, imo it should)

hybrid phoenix
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But in the eyes of others it could start lower^

flint garnet
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I always just say what my last job paid

plucky hatch
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH4KG3KKo5g I'm working on a gameplay mechanic like this game. I intend to put it in my portfolio so it's not for profit. As a programmer, I'm thinking of using one of the Paragon characters and their animations. Does this have a negative impact on recruiters or is it still an impressive project? I will do all the gameplay code, VFX and environment

YouTube
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Returnal is an upcoming third-person shooter roguelike psychological horror video game developed by Housemarque and published by Sony Interactive Entertainment. The game is set to be released for the PlayStation 5 on April 30, 2021

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β–Ά Play video
pastel estuary
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you are just using some content as placeholders, if you are clear on this, and what your goals are it should not obstruct those points.

jaunty patio
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Quick question, is it ok or advisable to showcase a work in progress project in a portfolio?? Or only completed projects?? I'm a level designer currently expanding my portfolio with a goal to get a permanent job in the industry. Thanks

pure kettle
jaunty patio
pure kettle
jaunty patio
hybrid phoenix
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Your portfolio is a sales pitch. You want that sales pitch to be as good as possible, therefore generally speaking it's recommended to only have it contain recent, finished works that represent you doing your work to the best of your current abilities

errant verge
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How viable would it be if I gave my code to multiple different people to allow them to build their own game, and take a comission from their profits? While also ensuring they all keep the code private and dont give it to other people?

ashen lynx
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Pretty viable if you are a multi-national corp with outreach in each corner of the world and millions and millions of them budgets.

errant verge
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lol hmm

hybrid phoenix
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Sounds like a plugin with extra steps Think360

royal lintel
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sounds like literally every bit of middleware out there

craggy nacelle
# errant verge How viable would it be if I gave my code to multiple different people to allow t...

You have a lawyer draft a license agreement that's compatible with UE's licensing options, which allows you to sue the shit out of anyone who breaches the license. Majority of developers who actually pay for something like what you describe will not risk their business/livelihood by sharing something which they have no reason to share with anyone anyway. Epic's marketplace license agreement already says you're not allowed to share things you buy from there except with people working on the same project with you and those you share it with are not allowed to use them except with that specific project

errant verge
craggy nacelle
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Yeah it kinda depends on what you're trying to do. If you just want to sell it on the marketplace, you'd probably be reasonably safe because of Epic's own license agreements forbidding it already

jolly sand
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Hello everyone

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So im 15 and I wanna be a game developer I wanna learn c++ to be able to create games

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by 17 i wanna have a few small games out

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does anyone know how i should get started

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like ik i gotta learn c++ first but idk good resources to learn c++

digital gate
# jolly sand like ik i gotta learn c++ first but idk good resources to learn c++

Go on youtube - Bucky C++ or Cherno C++ (or both, why not); Follow along with these and get your feet wet that way.

learn how to read documentation (https://en.cppreference.com/w/ is common) so that you can go do things without needing a tutorial (tuts are fine, but being overly reliant on them isn't).

Get to where you're comfortable making a console application for just about any basic task and also using C++11 language features, and you'll have a much easier time in UE4.

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There's some excellent books on C++ you could follow as well

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#cpp for your UE C++ questions, #lounge (or another server, say, TPH) for basic/non-UE C++ questions

jolly sand
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yoo thanks alot

steady pewter
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Go with C++14 tho. It is kinda patched ++11 and what is used in UE

jolly sand
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im confused learn c++14 language features?

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instead of c++11?

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but if i learn c++17 shouldnt it have 14 and 11 but more?

steady pewter
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14 is what UE uses, next add, sometimes deprecate features

jolly sand
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ohhhh ight

frosty horizon
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Where do I do the $ job cmd? I’m new sorry

lilac walrus
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private message to the Manny bot

frosty horizon
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Thanks sorry

frozen shell
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Hie,
Hope everyone is doing well,
My name is Ronald gomes
I am looking for sculpting artist opportunity in game or movie industry. Specialised with Zbrush, Nomad, Maya, photoshop, Substance painter and Marmoset. Please let me know if there is any opportunity.

royal lintel
frozen shell
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Sorry πŸ™‚

true shore
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Hey lads,
So, I'm going to be going to Uni in a year, and I have the choice of studying Animation or Game Art (there is also Gamedev/Game design, but I already know that stuff)
I think either one is really going to better my skillset. The university ranks in the top 10 in Europe for animation, at least. And it's very close by.
The good thing about these 2 courses is that they help you build an extensive portfolio, which I've heard is very important if you want to get a job in the industry.

However, I just can't decide on which one I want to choose.
I can do programming, 3D modelling (kinda mediocre, struggle with textures/materials) and I'm getting better at animation slowly but surely.
There isn't really "one thing" I specialise in, I kinda just enjoy everything.

Any advice?

nova tartan
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Develop a specific, but general skillset
Don't do game animation, do animation, don't do game programming, but computer science etc
Don't spread yourself too thin across all the game development fields, music art programming etc, pick your favourite and become great at it

true shore
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yeah, out of the 2 available I was considering animation, as that could be used for careers outside of gamedev

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unfortunately, I don't think I can study computer science for uni

snow pendant
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What is with the unprofessional behavior from some freelancers in the Unreal Engine industry lately?

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This is the 2nd time I've hired a 3d model freelancer and their behavior is just completely unprofessional when it comes to getting details right.

green oyster
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It happens all the time. I worked with 4 or 5 UE$ devs, completely unstatisfied with results every time. It's just very hard to find someone good, because all of them are already working on something

true shore
snow pendant
loud geyser
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I know you can share individual badges but is there a way to share an entire Unreal Online Learning profile with a potential employer?

lilac walrus
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Probably not, but who would ask for that anyway? It's meaningless

steady pewter
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There was such question in the survey. Epic might consider it to be a source for people showing off.

vapid dirge
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Should be a way to make it have meaning.

pure kettle
lilac walrus
pure kettle
vapid dirge
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Lol yeah, but tbh, that also could be enough for a lot of what is needed... I mean, no need to reinvent the wheel, the code is already there a lot of the time.

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And they could of course make it more difficult and thus more relevant.

pure kettle
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To be fair, Unreal Online Learning is still fairly new, and not much recruiters look into online courses histories anyway.

vapid dirge
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And that can be fixed too. It doesn't take a ton of creativity to do either.

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Time limits, test costs, you know, similar to accredited learning. Perhaps multiple layers, I mean, plenty of places we could easily say the same thing about there... just better reputations on it.

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If skills matter, then you test skills.

lilac walrus
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Yeah, accreditations aren't really a positive for us either; most can be trivially obtained, and most don't evaluate your ability to do much more than open a tool and press some buttons or follow along a basic tutorial. If anything, they may actually look bad, though most reviewers would probably try to ignore them.

stuck holly
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Hmm but aren't there some prominent examples in SW dev where it seems to work rather well e.g. Microsoft's Azure Certifications or AWS Cloud certs or Tensorflow machine learning certifications?

steady pewter
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Clearly, there are industries & certificates which hold some value, though sometimes that goes only up to the HR. Just in general, for software/art e.g., most ppl prefer to evaluate themselves how much the candidate actually knows.

snow pendant
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Seriously, 3 people so far and one of them was a scammer.

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Plus, whenever I post a job, only one person responds on the day that I need people, then as soon as I give up, 100 people start applying.

craggy nacelle
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It can be difficult to find folks especially if you're not a well established business (read: cannot afford big salaries)

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Have you tried asking for recommendations from other developers?

snow pendant
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But last time I paid someone a big salary they did horrible work that wasnt even worth 25 of that.

craggy nacelle
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Sounds like it might be worth asking around for recommendations, I'm sure there's experienced artists you could hire that have a proven track record

pure kettle
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Unfortunately, "someone's gotta start somewhere" isn't going to cut it.

green oyster
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@snow pendant Were did you do your recruiting? I recommend the polycount community, good, experienced people there

snow pendant
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I'm about to to start using fiverr

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Against my better judgment

craggy nacelle
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I get the feeling you won't have good luck on Fiverr... Definitely sounds like polycount would be a much better choice

pure kettle
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Fiverr's competition is somewhat lopsided when it comes to this.

green oyster
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you can also look up artstation for some art that you like or want and message the artists

pure kettle
snow pendant
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Whats poly count?

green oyster
shut token
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My personal experience with fiverr for 3D is uhhh - very very bad honestly. Most of 'em just flake out. Pixel art however, I've had okay experience. I was testing the waters to see the kind of quality that would come from it. My best finds have been in the community or on reddit honestly.

hybrid phoenix
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@snow pendant If you're willing to disclose, what's your rough work description and budget for said work?

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Just want to make sure your expectations are in line with the market

snow pendant
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It's simple

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Looking for a blueprint coder that can design a train sim.

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I gave up on a 3d modeler

wary idol
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For a train sim you should really be looking for a C++ developer (just my 2 cents)

hybrid phoenix
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The answer you've given provides zero useful context for me (or anyone) to be able to assess whether your expectations are reasonable, though

wary idol
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^

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this too

hybrid phoenix
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I've seen lots of people over the years who are convinced that $300 (or even less) for a week of work is reasonable. It is not. If that's what you're willing to pay, you can generally expect low quality results.

wary idol
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For a decent developer you will probably be paying $200-300 for a single day of work

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(if not more)

snow pendant
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And train physics, that's basically it.

hybrid phoenix
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And your budget?

snow pendant
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i go by hour

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$20/hr

flat gazelle
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Lol

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Well, we've found the problem at least :D

snow pendant
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So how much do you think I should be charging

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Because I've charged that same rate last year and got good products

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Why is so different this year

flat gazelle
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Im not a programmer, but I am established and reliable. I would not look at a short time project below 85$/h

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If its a few months of fulltime work, I could stretch down to 60 ish

digital gate
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When I was freelancing, I got ~23/hr at my peak - I get over 2x that now that I don't freelance any longer.

If I were to go back to freelancing, I suspect $85/hr is not sufficient

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Gotta factor in taxes, unbillable hours, time without a client, etc

flat gazelle
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Yeah, my numbers are from 2016 so I would add a bit

digital gate
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I honestly haven't considered going back to freelance, so maybe I'm being a bit greedy but it doesn't even approach $20

snow pendant
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$85 seems excessive

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Maybe $30 or $40

flat gazelle
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Its what companies paid

digital gate
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Depends what you're trying to get out of it

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If you're getting good work product out of $20 then that's fine. But know that your talent can likely (eventually) find a better deal for themselves

flat gazelle
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Yeah, you tend to get what you pay for. Unless yoy get superlucky with someone who doesn't yet know their worth.

nova tartan
#

20$ an hour is less than entry level wages for most programmers in my low cost of living location. When I was first starting out 10 years ago, I took a job with higher pay than that full time and considered it low paying compared to my other options(I liked the company)
To keep an non-exact figure, I make the equivalent of 65-85$ an hour in my current software development position, with full benefits and many weeks vacation. This is as someone with 10 years experience.
20$ an hour will get you a hobbyist or student I think.

digital gate
#

I guess

royal lintel
#

As a software engineering intern I earned $36/hr. That was at a decently large company and in a mid-high CoL area to be fair, but it should help put things into perspective. You're very unlikely to get someone who has much experience for that price. Maybe you'll get lucky with a student who needs some cash but don't expect a pro at that price.

digital gate
#

The thing about Games is that there'll always be another body. But is that what you want to base your (highly technical) business on?

#

Maybe worth kicking about

swift moat
#

What would be the fair amount to ask as an environment Artist ?
Job type : Permanent

green oyster
craggy nacelle
# snow pendant Maybe $30 or $40

Fwiw, with 20-30 bucks / hour you're pretty much gonna have to hire folks from eastern europe or asian countries and such with cheaper labor. They can definitely do good work (we had some really good devs in slovenia) but it may make it harder to find skilled people willing to work for that amount.

#

the lowest I was ever paid in my very first programming job was almost 20 bucks an hour

green oyster
#

I'm freelancing in eastern europe and I wouldn't work for 20$ / hour πŸ˜†

green oyster
#

We're in the EU too, costs are similar, and for example, software license prices are not cheaper here, if anything more expensive than in other regions

craggy nacelle
#

Yeah we paid our slovenian guys way more than that :P

#

but point mostly being that you're more likely to find affordable folks from areas where the general cost is less, which makes it harder to find those in general because you're effectively removing half of the candidates from your list

snow pendant
#

Interesting

nova inlet
#

Not sure how often this gets asked but would it be realistic moving out of enterprise SWE without dropping below 6 figs (US)? I studied gamedev in school but I needed money so I took whatever I could get. I want to move back toward what I intended but I don't think I can afford to take a huge pay hit for it.

#

For clarity, I've been riding this train for 4 years

royal lintel
#

Possible, heavily depends on where you end up.

nova tartan
#

I'd assume similar pay would be doing the same thing as enterprise software engineering, just at a large developer/publisher instead of a non-gaming related company

hybrid phoenix
#

Games industry at large tends to pay (quite significantly) worse than it's non-gamedev counterpart

#

People take it because they like working on games more than they like working on software, so employers get away with it

turbid pulsar
#

hey, I've done programming always as a hobby. But never really learned much. Everything I know is self taught. But for making it a job, what are the things I need to learn, bcs I dont know a lot of the fundamental stuff and how to do some complex things(I know that comes later, but same thing. To do complex you gotta know the basics). What steps do I need to take and what to learn in order to know everything I need to know? any information is helpful. consider me a beginner

magic kettle
#

Hey guys, just wanted to ask if there's anyone here who considers themselves a professional game Dev that started learning later in life?

thin halo
hybrid phoenix
frosty geode
#

Hi, I'm a corporate programmer (c#, typescript, angular...) But i've always tinkered with games (simple xna c# game, simple c++ opengl game, Unigine hackaton entry, Unreal simple game, Unreal minecraft-like world...).
I don't scare from pointers or more memory oriented discussions (had no issue with assembler at school), but I don't know how best to transit from retail (c#, architecture heavy) to game (c++, performance heavy) programming.

The problem is that I use C++ and Unreal only as a hobby, in my spare time (which is limited), so while I have like 15 years of experience in programming, I have none pro-experience with C++ or Unreal.

What would be my best chance of transitioning to the gamedev?

thin halo
#

@frosty geode If you think you might have the skills required to be a game dev, you can make all that experience apparent on your resume and apply for a job. You'll probably be invited somewhere and you'll proof your skills with a work test. If you have friends in the industry they might even be able to refer you to be considered for a position. It's basically all there is to it. Try to get invited, and then proof you got what it takes.

pulsar condor
#

Hi im very interested in working in the gaming industry and I have a lot of creativity, imagination(I have created and designed game modes for games that I love in my free time for myself) and im starting to practice drawing. Does anybody here knows in what direction I should go based on that?

spice dagger
#

If your starting out, you have the advantage of being able to try whatever you like without committing.

#

Maybe Level Design or Concept Artist is what you prefer? Building your own small game can help you explore other facets of making games that you might not have previously considered or thought you would enjoy so much.

pulsar condor
#

thank you for the advice, what do you advice for the design/build of a game for a beginner like the engine and such? @spice dagger

spice dagger
#

Well considering your in an Unreal Engine Discord server, maybe try Unreal Engine...???

pulsar condor
#

LOL, good advice I will do that thanks

plucky hatch
#

Is it a thing to commission someone for code ? Like for instance if I wanted someone to build a level for me for 50 dollars would that be consider a contract?

steady pewter
#

Coders don't make levels usually, most of the time it is a work for level designers, environment artists and etc. Also 50$ ain't much. Check out the job channels.

plucky hatch
#

That was a poor example lol

#

I just don’t wanna look like an idiot in the job channel lol

#

So If I needed a specific task of my project done that would fall under a contract job right?

#

Or is that not how it works

steady pewter
flat gazelle
#

Naming and shaming huh?

warm iron
#

probably better than the alternative which is to do nothing lol

#

i'd want to know about some shiz like that before paying someone tbh

hybrid phoenix
#

I suspect <@&213101288538374145> disagree, in accordance with #rules. Rule 4 specifically

warm iron
#

doesn't look like they shared private info just a blocked convo

hybrid phoenix
#

Which is a private conversation that one party did not agree to share

#

I've been on the hook for Rule 4 for a lot less

warm iron
#

lmao

#

y'all ready to die defending shitty business practice huh πŸ˜†

hybrid phoenix
#

Not really, but the server has rules, whether I agree with them or not

flat gazelle
#

I mean, the poster just made himself radioactive as well by posting a private conversation claiming things we are supposed to take only his side for. All while showing how immaturely he talks to people he hired. So I don't see what was gained here.

#

It boils down to "There was a delay in communication" and then the retaliation is to name and shame on a server with 15k people.

#

Absolute career suicide if I ever saw one xD

stone oasis
#

If people are genuinely interested in the details they can DM me for receipts. The fact that you choose to view it as a mere 'lapse in communication' is very telling of your own career prospects 🀷

hybrid phoenix
#

You're saying that to an established senior VFX artist, fwiw

stone oasis
#

I refrained from sharing anything more than I did explicitly due to the rules.

hybrid phoenix
#

Either way, specifics on the situation aside, sharing the private conversation is against the rules

stone oasis
#

If you have bad business practices, I will out you. 🀷 Do better business. If I get muted or banned it's whatever, I made my point.

granite brook
#

Into 3 different channels

#

That alone is against the rules...

warm iron
#

imagine reprimanding someone for bringing attention to something like this

warm iron
hybrid phoenix
#

I'd think by your phrasing that you're being held here by force

granite brook
#

Thanks for reporting it. I cleaned it up now.

warm iron
#

oof dat coverup tho

granite brook
#

It's simple rules. If you can't follow them you have to live with the strikes.
If you want to name and shame users, do it on your own platform.

warm iron
#

extreme coverup vibes but explain yourself into a hole some more ig

granite brook
#

I'm not explaining myself in a hole. It's rules, that's it

#

I don't care for either of the two parties

warm iron
#

saying "i am not doing this thing" doesn't make it true js

granite brook
#

It's their job to secure their business practices

#

Not ours to generate a list of people who might be problematic

warm iron
#

i'm just saying by removing his posts you're covering up someone's shitty practices

#

you can have your reasons, but don't claim you're not lol

granite brook
#

I only applied the rules, that's all

warm iron
#

i agree, you did

granite brook
#

If you have issues with those, feel free to chat with @tawny kayak

#

I didn't make the rules

warm iron
#

just don't act like you're not actively employing a coverup job in the process 🀷

hybrid phoenix
#

It's not Slackers' desire to be a platform for worker reputation

warm iron
#

didn't say it was bro

hybrid phoenix
#

It's impossible to determine the validity of these sorts of claims

#

So it's not at all a cover up

warm iron
#

i'm done with the convo i'm just telling how it looks 🀷

hybrid phoenix
#

So much as just not wanting to bother with the "he said, she said" mess that these sorts of things cause

#

Hence they're not allowed at all

warm iron
#

i'll be straight up, if his screenshots can be believed anyway, it's pretty one sided

#

and it's not like i don't understand the rules, but it is what it is

#

you can't kill someone with a gunshot and then be like "they didn't die because I shot them" 🀷

granite brook
#

tbh, the way the author handled it puts me off to ever work for them too

#

Sooo

#

as much as it shows that the other person did something bad. the way it's handled was bad too

warm iron
#

i mean there's no good way to get ripped off, or respond to being ripped off imo

hybrid phoenix
warm iron
#

imagine telling someone who just got robbed "eh, you could've handled that better"

hybrid phoenix
#

There is definitely better and worse ways to handle such things

warm iron
#

^ agreed

#

i'm js i saw the screens, seems pretty easy to figure out why bonsai is angry

hybrid phoenix
granite brook
#

Sure, but we usually take a very "neutral" stance here. We can't validate anything and we don't want to be a platform where people shame others. And that's why we have those rules and apply them

warm iron
#

here's my qualm tho

#

if bonsai could prove it, would it matter?

hybrid phoenix
warm iron
#

because i'm gonna go ahead and assume nah, y'all still wouldn't do anything lol

#

neutrality is one thing, but you can't claim to want a positive platform, while simultaneously allowing situations like this to transpire (who knows how often if not reported somehow?)

lilac walrus
vagrant brambleBOT
#

:triangular_flag_on_post: Array Custodian#6112 received strike 2. As a result, they were muted for 1 hour.

digital gate
#

I don't think they're gonna abide by the rules

#

when that is banned then another will join

steel creek
#

wack-a-mole

craggy nacelle
#

It's faster to ban than to create an account lol

stuck holly
#

I'm pretty new to unreal engine and GameDev in general, so I'm still learning the very basics. So far I've used UE4 and created a couple basic static scenes with asset packs from the market place and learned about lighting and the basics of UE4.
Now UE5 EA is out, do you think I should continue learning UE4 or switch directly to UE5? Is knowledge of UE4 still applicable e.g. CPU / GPU Lightmass, etc. still useful after UE5 dropped?

shut token
#

Stay on UE4

#

Knowledge will transfer

stuck holly
wary idol
#

UE5 and UE4 are basically the same exact engines

#

plus extra features on top

snow raven
#

Yeah I would imagine UE5 would be like "It's UE4 AND..." not a whole new learning experience

royal lintel
#

You don't have to imagine. That's literally what it is. It's not a new engine, it's just a larger update than usual.

pure kettle
#

Probably like how Frostbite stuck to version 3 for a decade.

stuck holly
#

That's very reassuring for me to hear :). Thank you

waxen basalt
#

Hello! I don't know where to ask this...so please be kind xD ...I am going to make the first job as env artist (not sure is the correct name) , they need me to build environments readymade assets, so no need to model them, just assemble... I have no idea of how much to ask for this kind of job! any idea ?

pure kettle
#

I'm not a Canadian nor North American, your kilometremileage may vary.

waxen basalt
#

Okay the recruiter is located in Usa and Canada!

#

but recruiting for US location

desert mountain
#

Hey, I'm an aspiring hobbyist game dev and I was wonderin what kind of resources you guys recommend for starting out in UE(free or paid, good education costs money)

steady pewter
#

"what kind of resources" - time and money

#

You can checkout the UE's online learning portal

desert mountain
#

Haha cheers, I'll look into it!

full sinew
#

Im houdini side fx artist anyon looking for fx for games artist tell me

flat gazelle
#

Do you have any game fx experience then?

#

Houdini FX work is not close to game fx work.

vagrant brambleBOT
#

:triangular_flag_on_post: fxforgames#1498 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

flat gazelle
#

Welp

pastel estuary
#

reading them rules is hard yo

full sinew
#

I used unreal engine for 1 year then moved to houdini for 1 and a half year

full sinew
flat gazelle
#

Lots of studios are hiring fx artists, but a lot are also burned by film fx people coming over with no clue how games work.

full sinew
#

Im a technicle artist

flat gazelle
#

Right, so far you've listed three different roles xD

#

I'm doubting your skill level at each now.

full sinew
#

lol technicles working are my normal working

#

because only with technicle workflow artist can make something better

flat gazelle
#

... Alright

plucky hatch
#

is unreal good for career?

still shard
#

Would not recommend if you have an interest in becoming a Chef though, not super applicable unfortunately

pure kettle
#

Or a shop clerk

spiral badge
#

so my current job - hate it, mood killer every week. yeah some days go fast but the ones that don’t are just… shit. the only upside it’s a guaranteed income per week for me, but i want to quit. the only thing about working online is that it’s completely reliant on me looking for people and then accepting me, meaning i could go weeks without any income

#

it’s funny @pure kettle says job clerk as that’s currently what i’m doing part time, and it’s not my style lol

#

i have a hunch it’s me overreacting and being physically lazy, but i also have a hunch that it’s time for me to leave and take this opportunity to boost my career

pure kettle
spiral badge
#

yeah, i’m currently doing that now.

#

been doing it for a while, hard to find programmers lol

#

it’s even got a decent bit of attention over on tiktok

pure kettle
#

The thing is, TikTok clout alone wasn't enough, since TikTok are mostly for bite size short videos.

I'd wager that you'll have higher chance getting noticed by the game dev space by posting your work and gameplay recording on YouTube, or at least a playable build on itch.io. You can also ask someone to record the gameplay for you, if your hardware isn't strong enough for the highest quality capture.

spiral badge
#

yeah, was planning too, got around 3500 in a discord server too, shoulda added that.

spiral badge
#

just currently on the search for programmers, some people arent so willing to put their effort into an unpaid/rev share project, and understandably so

pure kettle
#

Can you blame them? Programming work is a lot more involving, and have to get through a lot of things, thus unpaid/rev share for programming isn't really justifiable.
Even free open source software programmers had to rely on donations to keep the project going. Otherwise it'll fail to go any further, just like how MB-lab went abandoned because the dev didn't get enough funding to keep it going.

spiral badge
#

not at all, im the exact same with my freelancing, i dont really go for them

pure kettle
#

Particularly web development

snow pendant
#

Anyone know of another site I can hire a dev on

#

I'm only getting requests for modelers and I need a blueprint coder

pure kettle
snow pendant
#

Thanks

pure kettle
#

Remote Game Jobs

shy depot
# pure kettle Can you blame them? Programming work is a lot more involving, and have to get th...

I do think it could help out for beginning programmers to take such a project though. Ideally you would have another programmer who's a bit more experienced on that team from who you could learn and maybe even vice versa. If the project also actually ships then you can put that on your portfolio. You obviously do have to make sure it's all safe and not a scam etc. Which is probably a lot more difficult then I make it sound πŸ˜…

lilac walrus
#

why would there be 'another programmer who's a bit more experienced'?

#

a programmer who's more experienced isn't going to be working unpaid or on revenue share in the first place

#

because they can do the exact same thing and get paid for their time

shy depot
#

I was referring to someone who maybe is a few weeks / months ahead of you in experience, not someone who is so experienced that they wouldn't be there. And even if that's not the case they may likely have different knowledge then you do. We don't all learn the exact same things at the exact same time.

lilac walrus
#

eh, beginners don't learn well from beginners

#

as the expression goes "blind leading the blind"

shy depot
#

I guess that's a good point yeah.

violet tusk
#

What skills should i try to pickup for game dev when i start college this fall? My dream job is being a technical artist or ML project specialist

hybrid phoenix
#

For starters, don't go to a local college's gamedev courses. You're better off spending the same time and money self-educating with online resources

#

That aside, tech art specifically is very much a role you just kinda roll into... You need both artistic and technical background, which means it's not very easy to build up the relevant experience and expertise without already having been in the field in other positions for a while

humble mortar
#

Hello everyone, I'm stuck at one of those life changing situations where I don't know what to do, and how I can progress myself!! I'm 19 years old graduating in Game development (Last year), and until now I was focused in Increasing my skill levels. I have 3 years of experience in Unity and Unreal and I'm confident enough to say that Unity and Unreal are my specialities ! Talking about portfolio, I have 2-3 game protoype(Which I'll upload the link here), I have linkedin profile, but I don't know where to start applying for jobs or even how to Increase your network in LinkedIn so that I could progress myself! Sometimes in Servers like this I search for jobs which are posted in "offering paid work" channel, but then I overthink too much and I'm at the stage where I think that I'm not capable of the doing that job! I'm very nervous, and Don't want to get stuck! Any advice for this stupid nervous guy? Link for the Portfolio game which I made :- https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IvQ7wpVLJ5C1AVulSJqvajtm_6BOHL3f/view?usp=drivesdk

Google Drive
ZombieTPS - Unreal Editor 2020-10-17 22-38-23.mp4
#

(Models and environment are not by me, just the logic and programming)

digital gate
#

If the engines are your speciality, why do you second guess your abilities to do a given task?

humble mortar
digital gate
#

Well I understand what you're second guessing.

hybrid phoenix
#

Why, not what

humble mortar
signal kindle
#

im bad

#

the best thing ive done is make a building system similiar to rust/fortnite

toxic sable
humble mortar
turbid berry
#

Question : What is the responsibilities of being a Unreal Engine Programmer?
there are many things, for example AI, networking, prototyping, animations etc, but should the programmers needs to be learn everything? or should focus on only one for example AI, or networking, or whatever specific module

#

when we go for interview in company, what is the requirements that programmers needs to meet their criteria

digital gate
#

Only that company can tell you. In general one can guess.

Bigger studios, you want to be specialist in one of the broader categories. It isn't that you can't do the other work, it's that you have an encyclopedic knowledge of how to do work in the domain. This doesn't map to picking any particular module though.

For smaller studios, you should be more generally balanced.

scenic moon
#

I know it's different per company, but an is an animator generally expected to know how to get the animations working in unreal and using the animGraph? Or that's up to the programmer?

pastel estuary
#

@scenic moon an animator should at least know how to import them and get them working, else its going to be really hard to finetune/tweak them if they constantly need to wait for someone else to set it all up.

sleek parrot
royal lintel
#

Err, really depends on the company. A large AAA will likely have tech artists or other people dedicated to implementation. On a small indie team the animator may need to do it.

gentle stone
#

There's tons of stuff that can go wrong in the export import pipeline. I'd expect an animator to know the process well enough to be able to bring the anims in and implement them (maybe the code isn't clean but that's fine).

short wind
#

Not sure if this is career related but is there a place to advertise your own game for people to put forward their own 2pence or even assist. Im not looking to hire a studio or free lancer because we are just a couple of guys trying to make something and put some assets together with some cool ideas?

pure kettle
short wind
#

Sounds reasonable

spiral badge
#

all it takes is a few words and a 20 second clip and your luck will to the magic i guess

scenic moon
#

That was very insightful regarding the animation. Thank you everyone for your answers

pastel estuary
#

To add a little to Jericho's advice, @short wind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGC-Cdwsf30

YouTube
GDC
PR Success.gif: How to Get Your Game Across in 5 Seconds

In this 2019 GDC session, Future Friends Games' Thomas Reisenegger provides tips on how to market your game through animated .gifs, as well as platform-specific gif advice for Steam, Twitter, etc.

Register for the all-digital GDC 2021: https://gdconf.com/passes-prices?_mc=sm_x_3pvr_un_x_gdcsf_x_x-yt-gdc21

Join the GDC mailing list: http://www....

β–Ά Play video
#

now, lets go back to this being a career chat :p

strange shadow
#

quick fast dirty question:
for a mid-poly character (highpoly-sculpt -> retopo -> texturing, without rigging), which will be later used in UE
does 800€ sounds too much??

pastel estuary
#

there's too many unknown factors to really answer that.
for an npc in a breath of the wild knockoff, yea probably. for Nathan Drake, not even close.

strange shadow
#

ah yeah..crucial info sry

#

its a "fortnite"-like character

#

without any additional meshes like weapons etc

pastel estuary
#

I cant really answer that myself (and feels a bit outside of the scope of this channel) but I'd expect to pay at least a few grand for a fortnite character.

strange shadow
#

sry if that is the wrong channel, i just thought..."hourly rate" "career-chat"..its a good fit πŸ˜„
anyway..thanks alot for your input!

pastel estuary
#

tis fine, and dont take just my word for it, I barely have any experience when it comes to hiring artists for such things.

strange shadow
#

NP, i too gather infos around the net πŸ™‚

pastel estuary
#

if you have a character design (with detailed description), you can always put it out there and see if people can give you an estimate.

strange shadow
#

i heard of hourly rates of 30$...that sound so much O.O
πŸ˜„

pastel estuary
#

thats... on the low end actually

strange shadow
#

yeah totaly!

#

i averaged out a number for that character of total hours
ca 60hours multiplied with that rate....it looks so much

pastel estuary
#

it all depends on the quality you require, how experienced the artist is (and how fast he works), and quite a few other variables.

#

I'd probably keep a placeholder until I am so far into production that I am almost 100% positive I'd finish the game.

#

but im saying that as someone who'd have to take great care on what Im doing with a small budget

lone wing
#

hello, im a games design student, and while i was focusing on programming (because i suck at drawing and i dont see myself creating 3d objects and meshes,textures etc), i descovered i absolutely love to do level design and putting assets togheter to create environments. I was wondering what's the job availability for a level designer or environment designer(from my understanding this require to be at at least decent and sketching and creating 3d assets) and if its worth focusing more on this over programming(im ok using blueprints but im trying to learn c++ and i cant seem to be able to focus more then 30minutes and fail to actually fully learn it).

hybrid phoenix
#

Important question before we get into career prospects etc.:
What is Level Design to you? Does it include placing pre-made assets to make a pretty scene? Does it include programming things like doors so they open when you interact with a button? Does it include psychology and game design; thinking about how the player will move through an area and how the level they're in will impact gameplay?

lone wing
#

Yeah so when i think at level design im thinking of creating the path the player takes, things he interacts with, creating the story steps withing the level and the mechanics he may encounter while placing the assets togheter, when im thinking of enviormental design im just thinking of putting the stuff togheter to make a beautiful realistic/or not scene but keeping in mind that the player has to do something specific in there

weak lantern
#

Hey there! I'm wondering about pursuing a career as a Gameplay programmer in the industry. I've been a Software Engineer for quite a while now (almost 6 years), and I've been working on a UE project with friends for the last almost year.

I know the industries are very different - but I'm wondering, how realistic is it to jump from one to another. Any tips from people who done similar things? Any insight on the interview process?

weak lantern
#

@plucky hatch thats a shame, but I guess expected - problem spaces are very different. Did you find the interviews in the two industries to be similar though? In terms of questions. I'm trying to prepare right now - I haven't interviewed for 4 years now haha.

#

That bad huh? that sucks! Hopefully I'll have a different experience with some of the companies here in Stockholm.

flat gazelle
#

There's a Stockholm/Sweden google sheet with salaries that are somewhat accurate. At least on the art side. It's missing a lot of data, but you can get a ballpark figure.

weak lantern
#

ooh, where can i find it @flat gazelle ?

flat gazelle
hybrid phoenix
flat gazelle
#

It's a bit on the lower side as it seems skewed to junior people and smaller studios. But some data is better than no data.

weak lantern
#

thanks @flat gazelle , yeah i'm not assuming i'll keep my salary. the differences are quite crazy though. looking at some of the figures theres also quite a big variance, i guess it's a question of how you negotiate as well.

flat gazelle
#

I mean, according to the doc I'm the best paid VFX artist in the whole country by a big margin πŸ˜›

#

Like I said, it's on the lower side.

#

Some companies still pay crap salaries.

#

Some have woken up.

weak lantern
#

ah nice! My wife is a VFX artist too, at Fatshark.

flat gazelle
#

Nice. She's working with one of my old juniors then.

somber brook
#

I'm a game designer. I love working on AAA console/PC games. I have a full time job already, earning 70k/year, BUT on mobile. I just got offered a contract for 70k/year for 5 months. the contract job is at a company that makes PC/Console games and furthermore exactly the type of stuff that I love. I've finally got a job offer for a console studio but should I consider taking the contract even though I have a full time job?

I had applied to 2 positions, first being full time, 2nd being temp(which i wasn't aware of)
Shortly after another position for the 2nd role I applied for was put up (with the exact same requirements but permanent this time)

I asked them to clarify since I had applied for a full time role, but they said yes while they had this other position in the late stages of the process now and they can only offer this contract. (First reply, I haven't asked them to change it to full time/extend etc yet)

Still, the way this has all played out feels like some sort of sick joke. I was on point and basically applied the day I saw the positions put up since I've been following the company for a while 😦

lilac walrus
#

the roles could be for different teams within the company, that happens sometimes

hybrid phoenix
#

Personally wouldn't be interested in a 5 month contract position if what you're really looking for is regular employment

#

So that's what I'd say, really

pure kettle
#

Also considering that this pandemic doesn't seem to end within months...

pure kettle
austere walrus
#

Oh, my bad I will remove the post and redirect it to the correct channel

austere walrus
#

From a guy who has been looking for a job for a while now and knowing how difficult it can be to find a job as a game designer, I'd say go for the steady contract. It's your preference ofc, but honestly it the jobs pays the same, in 5 month the other offer will be off the table for sure. So it all depends on what you want to go for, if you want to remain flexible and not bind yourself to a job yet, take the 5 month thing, if you really want to work on that game and your contract allows you to switch. What I do know is that some bridges you don't want to burn and if you have a good thing going, it might be a waste to toss that away.

In any case, it's all about building up portfolio and network in this industry so be mindful of that when you make this choice, that's all im going to say.

somber brook
#

Well I recently got my current job and had basically asked for the same amount at both, so this 2nd one is offering the same as my current, and it does offer health benefits/vacation(prorated of course) etc
I'm planning to take the job that I love, as it will help me develop skills in the industry that I need to get and retain more jobs like it by being able to do it 8 hrs a day, every single working day, while immersed in an environment of other people all doing the same thing, while also having a manager/mentor who knows what's up and can evaluate my progress accordingly, VS just staying at my current job, not gaining any new skills or doing anything remotely related to my field and then maybe spending a couple hours a day to learn/make my own personal projects.

The way I see it, the professional experience which can also go on my portfolio as 5 months of experience in the types of roles I'm interested in is the key
Came to this conclusion after asking myself how I can valuate my current job vs this opportunity, even if its only 5 months

proud rune
#

Hey all, I'm a Unity/C# dev looking to transition to Unreal especially in terms of jobs. What's the best resource, and any advice in terms of applying to the right job to make the transition?

scenic moon
proud rune
#

Ok cool

toxic perch
#

if you live in California and youre working as a professional UE4 engineer, could you send me a DM so I can poke your brain about salary expectations and cost of living? (I'm in the process and I desperately need to share notes with other engineers)

river moss
#

i have just installed UE4 and do not know where to begin, can some1 suggest a good tutorial or guide me

crude shard
#

after you learn the basics start a simple learning project

#

and as you encounter problems in that project you have to try to find the solutions and you will become better and better !

river moss
#

is that link working

#

i am getting this page

Screenshot_2021-07-16_104805.png
#

nevermind it is working now

spare fractal
#

What are thoughts on getting employed in the video game industry (whether large or indie) using Unreal Engine as a primary skill without a specific or niche specialization? i.e. Publishing a couple games as an indie, not necessarily getting huge sales, but the games themselves being solid and getting a handful of sales and decent reviews (as a portfolio)? Is that a hopeless path? I personally enjoy the "whole pie" that is gamedev and get bored focusing too long on a singular aspect like modeling, animation etc without it contributing toward a project I really believe in. Thanks to any who are able to provide their thoughts in advance!

lilac walrus
#

there is very little space for people who are both a 'jack of all trades' but also restricted to one specific set of technology

#

most people enjoying steady employment will have a specific set of skills orientated towards a specific discipline, and even if they have strong familiarity with one engine, should be able to transfer them to another without too much difficulty

#

tbh, even devs gone indie tend to be strongly orientated towards one or two core disciplines

#

there's only so much time to learn how to do something well

digital gate
#

yeah that's where the plan falls through. you might be able to do the entire game, but in any particular area you aren't going to be a contender for a dedicated role at a studio that can hire a person per-discipline.

There are a couple of places I might think of that would benefit from an across the board general unrealist. But those roles are going to be better served by multi-specialists and involve hardware.

lilac walrus
#

A) Read the #rules and use the job boards.
B) Sounds like revenue share, except you're taking an extra 20%.

vagrant brambleBOT
#

:triangular_flag_on_post: Niklaus Mikaelson#0186 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

pastel estuary
#

< cleaned up some stuff.

south barn
pastel estuary
wide topaz
pure kettle
wide topaz
#

I'm replying to someone saying I'm stealing, go back to school dude.

hybrid phoenix
#

You're a pleasant bean, aren't you.

vagrant brambleBOT
#

:clock2: Niklaus Mikaelson#0186 was muted for 10 minutes.

tired elbow
#

is there that can help me out with some animation replacment ?

steady pewter
fiery birch
#

Hello can anyone help me please
I have animated camera but I want to change camera location but I can't becouse of camera animation is there any way I can change my Camera location with all the keyframes ???

flat gazelle
#

My gut says that's a bit too narrow of a career.

lilac walrus
#

lol

pure kettle
twilit fern
#

Does anyone have any tips on how to get started as a 3d/ environment artist?I'm a recent graduate and I've been told that my work is not at the level of being able to get hired within the games industry. I would like to work on my craft but as I am in a situation where I need to pay my bills it's hard to find the time. As I need to find overtime for a job that I can get paid at.

green oyster
#

@twilit fern I started by getting in a related industry (archviz) as my main job and working / learning on my portfolio in my free time. Managed to find a enviro artist job after 6 months

twilit fern
#

Archvis is architecture right? I think my main issue is i have no idea what my current skill level is, and my confidence of applying for jobs is just terrible.

lilac walrus
#

just keep applying and improving

#

at some point, someone will think you're good enough

#

in the meantime, you need a job that will sustain you whilst you improve, so just take anything you can do that earns enough and use your spare time for personal growth

green oyster
#

@twilit fern yes, doing 3D models and rendering, I had a ton more opportunities in those fields than game dev jobs (maybe it's different in your area), and it was good experience. Still used some of the common software I would later use

twilit fern
#

I have a job at the moment which gets the bills paid but another big issue is my lack of motivation. So getting a relevent job would allow me to get my motivation back.

#

I mean that sounds like a great opportunity

hybrid phoenix
#

i have no idea what my current skill level is
If you want honest opinions on this, share your portfolio (and potentially CV/resume) here

twilit fern
#

Ill put my artstation in. My biggest critiques was my cave environment is too dark - my lighting in general then some of my models was too basic and blocky. - https://www.artstation.com/h0lyk1ll

ArtStation
max brett

Hello, my name is Max Brett. I am a university student located in England, About to graduate with a BA Hons degree in Independent Game DesignΒ that focuses on 3D. Before this degree I did a level 3 BTEC within Creative Media Production this is where I found my spark and drive to create 3D environments and assets. Within my final year, I completed...

#

I think to get my motivation back i might start making smaller environments or just assets

hybrid phoenix
#

If you're a 3D artist and not good at lighting etc., stick to renders

craggy nacelle
#

I'm pretty sure I've seen games and stuff with this level of graphics

#

:D

hybrid phoenix
#

Also depends what you intend to do, if you want to work on weapons that's generally very different from specializing in something like trees

#

If you're doing weapons, you don't need in-engine renders

twilit fern
#

Cheers man i appreciate it. Nah i specialise in environment design

hybrid phoenix
#

Your lighting and material work makes your assets look immensely mediocre

#

Hard to judge to what extent they really are in the context you show them

#

But yeah, to be blunt, you've got a lot of practicing to do

#

cave environment is too dark
This is beating around the bush kind of criticism

#

Sure, it's too dark to see the assets properly

#

But the sword and lanterns here look like they're out of Oblivion

lilac walrus
#

to be a little blunt, if you're not motivated to do gamedev for your own sake, why do you believe you'd be more motivated to do it for someone else's?

hybrid phoenix
#

Oh, I'd actually missed that part entirely

#

Games are not an industry to work in if you're not very strongly motivated to be doing this specifically

#

And doing it for someone (where you'll generally just be assigned things that need doing) isn't going to make you more enthusiastic about the work than doing it on your own stuff (where you'll generally choose to do the bits you love)

twilit fern
#

Yea i see what your saying. I was immensely motivated to work in the industry and honestly i still am im just in a motivation slump atm.

green oyster
#

I would suggest starting on a few brand new pieces, but a lot simpler (one sword and stone, a single well, etc), and just pick some works from your favourite industry artists, try to do a similar subject and mimic their quality level

hybrid phoenix
#

^agree on that

#

Do a single piece to the very best of your abilities

#

Rather than trying to assemble a full environment

green oyster
#

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/DxxxRn Here's an example for you, hiring peeps would want to see that you can do subd or zbrush high polys, normal baking, optimized low poly, materiality in your textures, and being able to showcase it. So good (simple) lighting!

ArtStation
Viking Sword, Marton Attila

Viking Sword for the upcoming game Valhall, developed by Blackrose Arts.

twilit fern
#

Yea sounds good thanks for the advice

spiral badge
#

you guys know of any people in need of a level designer, kinda itching for some work at the moment,

pure kettle
spiral badge
#

yeah, had a look there, looking for extra sources

cunning needle
#

I want to package to windows and i have VSCode installed, but it says i need Visual Studio. Is there a way to get around this? I kinda need a lot help!

pure kettle
cunning needle
#

oops srry my bad

wide topaz
vagrant brambleBOT
#

:no_entry_sign: Niklaus Mikaelson#0186 was banned.

lilac walrus
#

ah, was gonna ping a moderator since they were sending me abusive messages for some reason, but I see they've already earnt their ban

pure kettle
plucky hatch
#

do unreal engine has more job opportunities then unity?

plucky hatch
#

I searched on LinkedIn and the results of unreal jobs were much greater than the unity

spice dagger
#

Job "opportunities" can be pretty relative.

#

Mostly comes down to experience and networking

royal lintel
#

Also heavily depends on which part of the industry you're looking in... mobile is going to be almost all unity. AAA will be almost all unreal and custom engines.

signal plaza
#

I am a highschooler from India... There aren't a lot opportunities here for game development so naturally I wish to settle in some foreign country(Germany or USA ideally) but have a question for working devs there. As I just told there aren't a lot of opportunities to learn gamedev, let alone get a job here. And from what I've read online in this time, there aren't a lot of people who have a degree in game dev and still have a job and recommend others to do the same. So, is getting a gamedev degree high priority or should I be fine with cs?

signal plaza
lilac walrus
#

you'll need a master's degree just to get the work visa

#

a CS degree for that however would be acceptable

#

the real trick, is that you're going to need to be a better hire than someone local, because it is expensive and risky to hire internationally - so expect to need to get a decent amount of development practice in before being able to get a job somewhere like Germany or the US

craggy nacelle
#

A friend of mine got into the US on an O-1 "alien of extraordinary ability" visa somehow lol

#

as a software developer

shut tree
#

where did he land his UFO?

craggy nacelle
#

Slovenia

signal plaza
#

Thank you for responding πŸ™‚

gentle stone
#

I definitely do not recommend Germany if you want to get into game dev. There are only a hand full of notable studios and pay is really bad typically

#

An interesting tidbit however is that the German state has pretty recently started to embrace its developer-side industry. There used to be no state-wide subsidizing of development efforts. This has changed in 2019 with 50 million € per year, as some sort of pilot project, and should continue giving out money until 2023, as far as I know. It's a start and could potentially lead to establishing new, interesting studios.
From the games that did get funding most of it seem like... Words I should probably not write down

steady pewter
#

"From the games that did get funding most of it seem like... Words I should probably not write down" - that's how many "steal" money. Also sweet EU funds.

green oyster
#

Is that really the case for Germany? Germany is the EU funds πŸ˜Άβ€πŸŒ«οΈ

lilac walrus
#

Germany's games industry is not well established, but you could say the same for most EU countries

hybrid phoenix
#

Yeah, mainland Europe as a whole just isn't great for gamedev...

#

There's a pile of mostly Unity-based mobile/VR places in Spain, and then a few big studios scattered across the continent

#

But pretty much all of Europe's gamedev presence is UK and Sweden

lilac walrus
#

Sweden has a large development scene

barren zenith
#

Australia has little to no scene at all unfortunately for me.

hybrid phoenix
#

It's really only a handful of places that do; primarily US, Canada, UK. Sweden's presence is growing quite rapidly, but nowhere near those three - only notable within scope of Europe

flat gazelle
#

Do you have numbers for that? I can't find any up to date on canada. The latest figure I can find is 470 studios which I feel isn't quite on the scale of "nowhere near" swedens 435.

#

But this number might be too old and Canada has exploded recently.

hybrid phoenix
#

Don't have figures for Canada, just going off gut feeling based on where I've seen companies be based etc.

#

So I might well be off w.r.t. exact scope

#

This would put the counter near 700

flat gazelle
#

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Found that my figure was from 2016

green oyster
flat gazelle
#

They are generally support studios however.

hybrid phoenix
#

And I'm personally not generally thrilled with the premise of moving to a place that pays less than the place I live now for a job

#

Makes it very difficult to move back to where you were if all goes poorly

green oyster
green oyster
flat gazelle
#

EA Romania is/was a QA studio without any projects of their own. At least when I worked with them.

#

I seem to recall the same for ubi.

#

But it's been a while.

green oyster
#

I don't think that's the case now. Sure they do QA too, but I have some artists friends at Ubisoft for example and they contributed to major releases. If support means they take over and help with some parts of production from other Ubi studios, from art direction to programming then ok

lilac walrus
#

'number of studios' tends to be a meaningless statistic, because what it means is 'registered businesses'

#

some businesses might be large companies with an office of 400+ people, another might be Gary working in his shed.

shut token
#

Yeah - but what Gary is working on is friggin' sweet

tall ingot
#

Why do so many listings have this?

#

Unless I am being dense, these things do not go together

flat gazelle
#

Because LinkedIn automatically sets the level without input from the company

#

Dont trust it

tall ingot
#

Ahh, that does make sense.

flat gazelle
#

Look for the same role on the company website

#

It will be an intermediate role

tall ingot
#

Fair fair! I am just looking for entry roles myself. Hence the frustration! Haha

honest cloak
#

Question, been a long time gamer for awhile now, built my own tower, and been playing in tools like WC, Unity, and Unreal for a good year have 5 years of experience being a Product Manager. Possible to switch to a Game Producer?

lilac walrus
#

depends on what "Product Manager" actually entails

#

being a 'gamer', building towers, and playing with tools all have nothing to do with a Producer's role

honest cloak
#

Makes sense, thanks for the insight!

native topaz
gentle stone
#

True, so much tax payer money just poofs away. As far as I know relevant politicians still want to tie the funding to "cultural or historical value". Games "for fun" without relevant narrative would go without money.
We sure do have some important names in Germany but those are few in number, and pay isn't necessarily great or even good. If one is fine with it, sure, why not stay in Germany? But personally I don't see much promise looking at German game dev culture (which is different from the established and internationally acting studios here).

craggy nacelle
#

Lederhosen the Videogame

#

Singstar Schlager

gentle stone
#

I think the inspiration would be too loose for it to be accepted with a map like that. You have to imagine, the bureaucrats involved have no clue about gaming. It's just buzz for them.

#

(I know you were joking, but still)

craggy nacelle
#

I mean you'd probably have to create a several stacks of paper long proposal first

#

so if you can write enough beautiful prose about Lederhosen the Videogame...

#

:D

gentle stone
#

Singstar Schlager would probably work hahah

craggy nacelle
#

lol

lilac walrus
#

pretty sure there are already German market only singing games

gentle stone
lilac walrus
#

lol, grim

gentle stone
#

this I can see

gentle stone
lilac walrus
gentle stone
#

I know. But that's German games startup culture like from what I've experienced

#

a ton of serious games with pretty bad game design and art among other, less great concepts

#

a battle royale type game in which 60 players jump on each other in an arena that gets smaller over time; funding ~100k€. Huh

lilac walrus
#

608,000 euros for a match 3 game, for a license I'm not convinced they even have πŸ˜„

gentle stone
#

that seems shady as hell

#

apparently that company is from Denmark?

lilac walrus
#

yup

gentle stone
#

I'd guess they do have the license if it's a multinational company, even if small, which has existed since 2011. Although I don't know how they got it. The excerpt seems uninteresting to me

lilac walrus
#

it doesn't seem like something Lego would go in for tbh

#

but there's some good stuff on the BMVI list though, e.g. Fermi Paradox

gentle stone
#

I agree. I just don't see how something like this would slip past authorities

lilac walrus
#

same way a lot of the other drek does - those responsible for dealing with applications etc don't know a great deal about what they're dealing with

gentle stone
#

yeah it's not all bad for sure. It just doesn't seem like the industry is making use of the new funding to grow

lilac walrus
#

it mostly looks like small companies exploiting it to shit out Match 3s

gentle stone
#

exactly

gentle stone
lilac walrus
#

haha, right?

#

do you know how many marketplace / template assets I can flip for 100k πŸ˜„ ?

gentle stone
#

as a registered freelancer I don't think I'm allowed to apply πŸ‘€

#

but all my marketplace assets would sure come in handy here

#

a culture test is literally part of the requirements. Whew.

unknown.png
#

everybody knows match 3 really defines German culture :)

#

I think if we teamed up that would be alright. 50/50 splits

lilac walrus
#

I'm as German as that Danish company Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

gentle stone
#

I recall that you are living in Germany; where were you from again?

#

Pretzels and beer for everyone

lilac walrus
#

Haha, I am in Hamburg

#

That very unexciting place with a lot of water

gentle stone
#

Hamburg is a nice place though :) any place with a lot of water has to be nice

shut tree
#

hmm, my german is pretty decent, and im dutch wich often gets mistaken for Deutsch.. (not by German people tho)

#

considerin subsidized covid test streets here had a firebase database with admin rights for every1 everywhere it seems free money is just up for grabs

#

just need some balls to ask for a whole lot of money and u might get it

#

yea that database with lives and countries economy/travel restrictions depending on it was less secure than the average gamjam highscore list

#

50.000+ names with read/write access that would if turned to positive would notify millions of corona app users they came in contact with a positive

#

good game

odd mulch
lilac walrus
#

nah, because it isn't corporate

#

it's just a bullet point list of hoops to jump through in order to qualify for funding because arbitrary government bullshit

#

other countries national programs will be the same

gentle stone
#

I promise other national programs are a hell of a lot more adept at funding worthwhile games and studios rather than whatever this is. Canada for example. And certainly "killer games" without some moral judgement wouldn't get funding here either I'm pretty sure. German politicians have started to realize there is a ton of money in games and they can no longer ignore it, but they haven't understood that it's not serious games and educational games where the money lies.

#

and while it's not corporate speak, it's pretty much the same. Have some game design professors with connections vouch for you and you're in

lilac walrus
#

nah, they're not

gentle stone
#

sure, I didn't mean to imply other similar requirements don't exist; just that the program here is extremely new and the people organizing it have barely started to get into the topic

#

there have been massive delays in actually giving out the funds for example. Indie studios have sometimes been waiting half a year after being assigned a specific budget to actually receive the money, which is a no go if your plans have accounted for receiving it. At some point there was some statistic claiming at the pace the 50 million € are being given out after being promised to studios it would take until 2040 or something along those lines hahah

lilac walrus
#

sounds about right

buoyant girder
#

I'm considering switching from being a full stack web developer into being an unreal engine freelancer. Do you have any idea what kind of hourly price ranges there are in ue5? A senior can make between 60-100€ per hour in web development, but I was looking at the #hire-a-freelancer channel, and saw senior ue5 developers with 5-10 years of experience asking for 30$ per hour. Others were asking for less. Is that really a common price range for ue5 skills?

hybrid phoenix
#

You'll also be able to find senior web-devs underselling themselves for $30/h. The numbers you see in #hire-a-freelancer are not representative of what you can be paid in the industry, you can definitely make more than you do now in web-dev. Only obstacles are building up the network needed to do so, and the skill to back it up

buoyant girder
#

okay, that's a relief

hybrid phoenix
#

Fwiw, as a non-senior technical artist my hourly wage as full-time employee was higher than your quoted $30/h

buoyant girder
#

that's actually pretty good for an employee

#

especially non-senior

hybrid phoenix
#

Was sort of "not technically senior but we basically see you as a senior because you're exactly what we need"

#

So got a bit lucky, being paid more than I should've in that instance, but it provides some perspective

#

Do bear in mind that his varies a lot by position

pure kettle
#

What about animators? I'm still a bit conflicted about average pricing as a UE animator.

hybrid phoenix
#

Tech-art pays well, about in line with (or in some cases more than) engineering, which is generally quite a bunch more than most art disciplines (excepting VFX)

buoyant girder
#

what did you do as a tech artist?

#

i hear that's a path with a ton of variety

hybrid phoenix
#

Varies, but we generally tackle stuff that is too techy for the artists and too artsy for the techies

buoyant girder
#

yup that sounds like something that would suit me, being a programmer and interested in animation

hybrid phoenix
#

It's a bit of a silly title because it can be basically anything from "animation technician" to "UI optimization" to "make the world look pretty" and "import pipelines and cleaning up behind the rest of the team"

#

Hard field to get into without track record by virtue of its broad scope

#

Unifying factor for tech art is that you need both artistic and technical background to do you job, which means you generally need a bunch of experience

#

(Junior tech art is therefore also a very weird position and not commonly found, or it's called junior but isn't entry-level)

buoyant girder
#

Same as "junior full stack" in web dev

hybrid phoenix
#

Yep

#

Can't be new to the scene but do full-stack

#

Just not gonna work

buoyant girder
#

assuming I have a lot of programming background in web, and some time in my hands, do you have any tips for making it into ue5 freelancing?

#

build a portfolio and build networks?

hybrid phoenix
#

Yep, and for the latter, try and find core industry people

#

The Slackers job channels are... Not a great place to be as a serious freelancer

buoyant girder
#

oh

hybrid phoenix
#

Lots of semi-hobbyists and startups without money

buoyant girder
#

hmm.. I have Frozenbyte, like next door, and I think they are starting to dabble with ue5.. πŸ€”

hybrid phoenix
#

Which isn't a very useful network to be based in as senior-tier freelancer

buoyant girder
#

also Remedy next door to the other direction, but they have their custom engine as far as I know.. Also housemarquee is near here and they use ue5, but they only make console games and I'm familiar with pc games mostly.. hm

hybrid phoenix
#

Do you specifically want to freelance?

buoyant girder
#

I think so.. at least in the long run. Maybe I could take a job for some period of time

pure kettle
buoyant girder
pure spindle
#

hey guys ,im gonna buy a learnbook for ue ,do You think it does matter how aged is the book?

#

cuz the book is since 2017

pure kettle
#

2017 was 4.15 I think, and it's already quite a lot different from 4.26

pure spindle
#

but the book is for the beginners basics and for the advanced

pure kettle
hybrid phoenix
#

The short premise to this is;
Don't buy books for basics (how to use engine X), buy books for advanced universal concepts (how does PBR work, how do we go from mesh to pixel output)

#

Use web resources for the former, they'll actually be up-to-date and they'll do fine

plucky hatch
#

so I'm working very low paid manual jobs to fund my UE4 game, most of these environments are highly racist/homophobic/sexist and it feels like it doesn't matter if my UE4 projects are successful if I'm only able to take this job route because of my identity πŸ˜”

pastel estuary
#

wut

fickle hatch
#

You should find better groups of people to hang out with

scenic moon
#

piggybacking a bit off the tech artist chat, remembering the same points, such as, there is no such thing as a junior tech artist, in what scenario/project would you seek out a Technical Generalist, and what would you expect out of that role? (Games, AEC, VP, ect)

fickle hatch
#

If I was doing an indie thing and had no money a generalist might be appealing

hybrid phoenix
#

As somewhat of a Technical Generalist... The only context in which I really see much use for one is as founding members of a small indie team, where you just cannot have enough people to distribute tasks in a sane fashion. That's why I pivoted into tech art

spiral badge
#

@buoyant girder
mind chatting in dms for a bit?

flat gazelle
#

<@&213101288538374145>

#

All channels

vagrant brambleBOT
#

:no_entry_sign: ˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞˞#3852 was banned.

north narwhal
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damn zero width unicode name

granite brook
north narwhal
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too bad i know how to get around that

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better luck next time spammer

pastel estuary
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really wonder when discord auto-picks that shit up and auto-block/ban

lilac walrus
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they don't seem to have any interest in preventing spam / abuse at all tbh

trail finch
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Hello, I just start learning how to be a game developer, can someone share with me some experiences of how you guys become a game developer and how you all get first your game-developers job? Thanks

pastel estuary
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step 1: follow all the guides, tutorials, and documentation you can find.
step 2: find out what interests you the most.
step 3: follow all the guides, tutorials, and documentation you can find of the thing that interests you the most.
step 4: see step 3.
step 5: see step 4.
ad infinitum (as long as you need it to become decently good at it)
step ad infinitum +1: make a portfolio
step ad infinitum +2: ????
step ad infinitum +3: profit

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in other words, practice, practice, practice, and apply what you learned, apply what you learned, apply what you learned.

urban stump
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And then the final step, get lucky

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Always some degree of that in the end

plucky hatch
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can anyone tell me like how to make a game reach to a wider audience I dropped my 3rd game and I am confused should I work to improve it or just make a new one

craggy nacelle
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What have you done to market it?

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Assuming your game is well made (not so buggy people would call it broken, not impossibly hard learn), most games do appeal to at least some amount of people, so it's generally a question of marketing the game so that the people it appeals to will learn about it

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However not all types of games will benefit from same type of marketing (eg. getting pewdiepie to play a niche grand strategy game might not really generate much sales because it doesn't appeal to his audience)

ornate terrace
# plucky hatch can anyone tell me like how to make a game reach to a wider audience I dropped m...

You should apply a development process that involves advertising and marketing.
This means that once you are out of the prototyping phase and you're in the Pre-Alpha and things get clear enough on how the game will start going, it's time to create an announcement trailer and advertise that while your game keeps developing. Then, when in Alpha, maybe a Gameplay Trailer might be a good catch.

You can also make it without trailers but I've always seen them as advertising milestones. A constant presence on social media and the web is necessary, the more you have it the more you're gonna spread the word

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Depending on the game you can have an Open Beta with a demo that contains most game mechanics and a bug report feature. It's a good way to get people playtest your game for free and have downloads/reviews as well

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This^^ obviously once you enter beta

plucky hatch
vagrant brambleBOT
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:triangular_flag_on_post: Here'sCapK#6661 received strike 1. As a result, they were muted for 10 minutes.

lilac walrus
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the only way to get any reach on the PlayStore is to start with a lot of money to burn on advertising or artificially buying your way into the toplists

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getting noticed on the mobile app stores is a game of financial attrition as much as anything else

plucky hatch
snow pendant
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Question, is there a place where we can leave reviews for other devs that have been horrible?

hybrid phoenix
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On this server? No. In general? Probably, though I wouldn't know where

snow pendant
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that sucks

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especially when they scam you and you cant warn other people in this server to stay away from them

craggy nacelle
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Tell the mods if you got scammed by someone on this server

hybrid phoenix
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It's near-impossible for anyone to verify these sorts of events, and they always devolve into a 'he said, she said' type of debate. It's not constructive.

snow pendant
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even if you have proof from DM's?

craggy nacelle
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Yeah if you have some way of showing what you're claiming is true I think it's a good idea to talk to the mods

hybrid phoenix
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I strongly doubt anything will be done. DMs can easily be forged, or simply framed to leave out other relevant information

craggy nacelle
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Regardless I think if people get scammed you should tell the mods, maybe they can't do anything immediately, but I'm sure they can keep a record if enough users complain Β―_(ツ)_/Β―

snow pendant
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@plucky hatch idk why I thought that was real LMAO

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Next Tuesday LOL

hybrid phoenix
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Anyhoo that pretty much illustrates it... As straight-forward as a lot of this stuff may seem, it's honestly impossible to determine which parties are truthful and who are at fault

pastel estuary
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which is why we have the protect yourself clause in the #instructions channel.
it will always end up in a he says she says kinda thing, and we rather keep slackers clean from such things.

flat gazelle
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Wait, Neoplan aren't you the guy who got pretty upset when you found out you can't pay 20$/h and expect quality work? Or do I have you mixed up?

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Did you pay more now and still ran into trouble?

craggy nacelle
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Somehow I doubt it...

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It's tough to find good folks for cheap, but it's also tough to afford to pay more. Gotta make best of what you can I guess

flat gazelle
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In relation to the car purchasing discussion. My first couple of years in the industry were... slim.

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Just out of school, moved to a new country. I had enough to live but no savings at all.

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But then, over years I built, and... I still don't have a car xD But that's because I don't need it

lilac walrus
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yeah, same - my starting salaries were decent enough in my first jobs, but the cost of commute / rent ate so much of it that a car was never an option

flat gazelle
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I would not expect to make big money as you sre starting out.

plucky hatch
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I wanna either work as a game develoepr, work for nasa or become an engineer

flat gazelle
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Lol

plucky hatch
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Lol?

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Why lol

flat gazelle
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Take a few years and figure out what you want to do. There is no rush. There are very few similarities between those roles so you still have a lot of growing and learning about yourself to do.

plucky hatch
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I wanna work for nasa..

flat gazelle
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And I say that as someone who tried to leave games after 8 years to study mechanical engineering. Only to run back to games.

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Do it!

pure kettle
# plucky hatch Lol?

As I said earliier, being 15 years old means that you have a long, long way to go.

plucky hatch
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Ok

wary idol
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😐

plucky hatch
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??

pure kettle
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Kid's got much more to learn, but has the wrong perspective on things.

plucky hatch
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Sorry

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Im just confused with everyrhinf

flat gazelle
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Yep, that's life for you

wary idol
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That's normal

flat gazelle
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Growing up just means you get to be confused And have a mortgage.

nova tartan
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Just go into non-game software dev and make enough to not have a mortgage

fresh kestrel
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you guys think that someone in his 20's is too old for begin in a game software carreer? i mean, a lot of people start when they're very young so, what about the other people that they're just starting on this, from learning about the engine to other things like modeling?

pure kettle
snow pendant
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Like for example, one of the "devs" here decided to talk crazy in my PM because I didn't choose him for my project. Someone that does that shouldn't be in this server.

spice dagger
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We cant help resolve an issue if we arent made aware of it.

snow pendant
sage vigil
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How do you get an internship for gameplay programming

warm glen
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Step 1) Be in college

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Step 2) Do some independent/class projects that you actually try on/work with a research group

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Step 3) Attend any and all company career events that visit your campus

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Step 3a) Apply to studios as a college student looking for an internship.

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Not a college student?

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Good luck

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Apply anyway

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Bow, scrape, lick the floor, prostrate yourself before the lords of the Ivory Tower.

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Pray

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If you ARE a college student

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DO NOT just do your coursework.

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Your GPA doesn't matter unless you make a 3.8 or above and went to a ballin' school.

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A) You don't need to go to college to work in game development. If you are and you're going into debt for it you're making a Life Mistakeβ„’

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B) Your GPA only matters otherwise to go into grad school, which is 10000% pointless if you want to do game development. Only matters for doctors, scientists, engineers, lawyers (gross) and professors (double gross)

hybrid phoenix
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One sidenote on degrees; depending on where you live, you may well need one to be able to get a job in the industry as you won't be able to get through immigration without degree

lilac walrus
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doesn't tend to have to be a relevant one though, a lot of immigration authorities only care that you have the degree, not what the degree is in πŸ˜‚

hybrid phoenix
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Yes.

keen atlas
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Not sure if this is the right channel to ask but here goes did anyone study Computer Animations, Games and Visual Effect at college or university?

elder furnace
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Sure didn't!

hybrid phoenix
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General recommendation in these parts, as far as I'm aware, is to stay far away from any sort of specialized education on these topics, and to pick a broader, more standardized degree (like Computer Science for programmers, or psychology for game/level designers), and to take internships in fields you're interested in and teach yourself what you need to get into those fields

flat gazelle
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sweats with no non gamedev skills

hybrid phoenix
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^same

hybrid phoenix
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Rather than announcing that you have questions, just ask. Those that can answer will answer.

pure kettle
hoary peak
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[Help] Hey can anyone give me some advice as to what sort of work and at what level I should be seeking? I've been devvin in Unreal for 3 years now, 1 in Unity before that.. I recently solo developed a game and released on Steam, its called Heroes of Eldemor.. It's got working multiplayer over a listen server, uses the gameplay ability system. has voice acting and all that good stuff.. it still kinda looks and feels pathetic.. but all the code works.. and I know how to optimize things.. I ran into a lot of problems when trying to build my SUPER MEGA AWESOME PROJECT for the first few years of devving lol... so ya piling feature after feature, untested into a blueprint shit stack... i quit on that project and just decided to work on something fresh and shipped that steam game in like 4 months..

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anyway, im looking for a job.. still trying to level up, working on c++ code and trying to learn to make things look pretty in Unreal, i feel like that's one of the main things people want out of the engine when they're lookin to hire

elder crag
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Can someone recommend some game development books on audible? Thanks!

ashen lynx
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@hoary peak from what you described, it would be gameplay programming intern.

hoary peak
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Thank you

waxen estuary
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@ashen lynx 3 years of experience in unreal and 1 in unity and he'd be an intern?

nova tartan
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depends on the quality of experience
If it was 4 years working with engines in a recognizable studio I would say they are now mid level
but solo projects? That's an internship imo

hybrid phoenix
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If you have no C++ experience and are looking for programming positions in Unreal, you're an intern

waxen estuary
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but all the code works.. and I know how to optimize things...

little terrace
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in the real world, you apply for a job at a company, the company asks you what you can do, you say X, then they test you for X, fail? goodbye. Mostly no-one cares if a piece of paper says you are Y or Z.

flat gazelle
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Being in college is a requirement for internships in several countries.

nova tartan
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There's a lot more to most jobs that require specific degrees than X
That's why it requires 4 years of preliminary training before you even get in the door to begin the on-the-job specific stuff

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I can't test every interviewee on the full breadth of knowledge I'd expect from them in a reasonable time frame

gentle pewter
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we got em

carmine olive
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It's often case by case. Some people get their feet in the video games industry faster than others. It's easier to find jobs if you have a University degree (baccalaureate) and this is valid for many other jobs outside the video games industry as well. It's hard to get in. But once you are in and have several years of experience to your belt, you'll receive offers from multiple studios trying to snatch employees from other studios, not necessarily rivals. For jobs such as artist or designer, the portfolio matters more. But in all cases, you'll be able to get many jobs through only networking, friends of friends. By using social media, Artstation, Youtube, etc. You can increase your visibility, opportunities to connect with more people, even people you admire and can learn from.

lilac walrus
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Baccalaureate != University degree

carmine olive
# 
An Undergraduate Degree is the first degree you can complete at the university level. It is commonly called a baccalaureate or bachelor’s degree, and may be further classified as honours or general (see below).
lilac walrus
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yeah, no, there is a strong distinction between the two in almost every country. Baccalaureate programs are secondary eduction programs, and Bachelor's are tertiary

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the latin root word hasn't referred to a Bachelor's degree in most places for a very, very long time

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it may or may not be written in latin on a degree diploma, however, as per tradition

carmine olive
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I'm not here to play with words. If you do the research, you'll notice that most jobs ask for a College/Professional degree and 3 years of experience OR a Baccalaureate Degree with no prior experience.

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That was my point.

lilac walrus
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the only place you'll ever see a "Baccalaureate Degree" is probably Canada

blazing mantle
flat gazelle
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<@&213101288538374145>

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Jeebus they are active today

vagrant brambleBOT
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:no_entry_sign: trancepx#8382 was banned.

barren shadow
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thanks

carmine olive
# lilac walrus the only place you'll ever see a "Baccalaureate Degree" is probably Canada

Oky. But Canada alone represents what % of the workforce in the world?
In 2019, North America alone represented 60%.
Europe: 20%
Australia & Oceania: 8%
Asia: 8%
Latin America, including Mexico & Puerto Rico: 4%.
Africa: 1%

In recent years, many game companies opened studios in Canada, including Epic Games, Google, Amazon, NetEase, Microsoft, Bethesda, EA Games, People Can Fly, Square Enix, Unity, etc.
It's insane. And it keeps growing.

lilac walrus
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it doesn't change the fact that outside of Quebec a "Baccalaureate" is not a degree

carmine olive
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Again...

It is commonly called a baccalaureate or bachelor’s degree, and may be further classified as honours or general (see below).
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You'll find Bachelor's degree in IT in other provinces.

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The point is, go to University.
Of course, that depends on where you live and what school system you are in.

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Should be self-explanatory.

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Rule of thumb, check job positions in your area.

flat gazelle
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Sounds like you assume there are only programmers in the industry.

carmine olive
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What I wrote earlier is that only programmers strongly benefit from holding a degree from University, since Design and Art are more portfolio-related.

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That's because of computer science.

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In cybersecurity, it's more about getting specific certifications. Such as...

Entry level: CompTIA IT Fundamentals, CompTIA A+ Core 1 & 2
Beginner: CompTIA Security+, CompTIA Network+, CompTIA Cloud+
Intermediate: CompTIA CySA+, Certified Ethical Hacker (CEH)
Advanced: Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP), Certified Information Security Manager (CISM), Offensive Security Certified Professional (OSCP).

And we start seeing more of those jobs in the video games industry now.

fathom cosmos
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Hey everyone. I was wondering what is the avarage hourly rate for unreal programmer contractor / freelancer in USA. More specific in New York area

digital gate
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If you could narrow down the skill level, that'd help people give you an estimate. Pretty sure NYC is a higher COL than where I am, and freelancing has more overhead between dry spells and tax burdens. I'd say $70 and up.

snow pendant
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Here's another funny story about someone I hired from the Unreal fourms

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So basically, I'm a 3d modeler and used to use my models in a steam game that allowed 3rd party content.

I got tired of using that game and I decided to create my own with the models that I created.

I hired someone as a blueprint designer to import and make the model functional in unreal, everything was good.

Until, they decided to randomly start looking at the file directory for the model (for some reason, it kept listing the old game engine as the directory for the models except they came from my desktop).

They start doing all this "research" when I think that they're working and they tell me to show them proof I own the models. I was professional about it, I explained why the directory would look like that but I created the models and the reason why the directory is referenced to the old game is because it was developed as 3rd party content.

Then they became extremely rude and unprofessional, saying this is copyright, the game developers can sue you, you didn't show me any proof these are yours, blah blah blah.

Not sure why people don't listen instead of accusing people for no reason.

digital gate
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It shows the original location where you imported from. Move the assets before importing.

snow pendant
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It was never publicy released

digital gate
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And, actually, if this was revshare I'm with the freelancer on this

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I'm sure they could have spared you a lecture, but if you're not satisfying their reasonable requests when they have a stake ... I'd walk too

digital gate
snow pendant
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Revshare?

snow pendant
digital gate
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There's a minimum bar of proving that you're not in murky water legally, and just from what you've said here you wouldn't meet mine.

If I have a stake (rev share) it absolutely changes things. If I'm just some node pusher, then maybe I don't care about this

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But yes, perhaps I shouldn't be freelancing which is why I'm glad I don't anymore.

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People screw you over all the time, welcome to working for forum jobs

craggy nacelle
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Yep, it's probably inconvenient for you, but for the person who's working for you it's their livelihood at stake

digital gate
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Back when I used to freelance with no stake at all, I wasn't out there grilling everyone for their marketplace receipts.

But when I worked revshare I kept an eye on that.

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Why? Company is in hot water, legal fees eat the revenue. That comes before my cut.

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If I have a public brand, and my brand gets wrapped up in a suit, I will have to deal with that with most clients down the road.

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It's not superficial.

It's just unlikely with your case here. But if you can't show a chain of custody that satisfies me when the game never went public, what else is going to be hard to get clarification on??

snow pendant
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There was no stake involved

digital gate
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Well. There's always going to be some extra detail that'll mean I don't actually have a point.

snow pendant
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No I get it

digital gate
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So, enjoy

snow pendant
digital gate
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Companies will absolutely end careers over IP

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You just never hear about it because the same settlements typically have gag orders

snow pendant
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I see

snow pendant
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How can I avoid this problem in the future?

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Ive already moved the directory so it wont say that anymore, but there are still some references left.

placid frost
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Hey, it probably has been answered, but I didn't find it in the FAQ, so here I go.

I'm french and I've been studying development for 4 years now (3 years on a school that doesn't give a diploma, now 1 on a 2 years formation that does), so I had time to experiment with a lot of different branches of dev, but never really considered game dev because of how poor the opportunities looked like to be in France even though I love making games and that "gaming" has been my world since I was 6.

Long story short I gained on maturity and now I'm considering it anyway. I always developed my games in C and sometimes C++ from scratch (with just the window management of some C libs), mostly 2D games and 1 3D using raycasting only (wanted to rebuild the first Wolfenstein), so now that I'm more serious about it, I'm learning Unreal Engine and it has been a blast but I've one question that I'd like to have some advice on it before I screw it up from inexperience.

Basically next year (after I get that 2 years diploma), I'll be facing the usual choice; I'll be 23, I have professional experience in web dev and embedded dev, and so I'm wondering if getting the 3 more years are worth it or not in this industry, I'm a self taught for both jobs I had and my employers were happy about my work, so if everything were perfect I'd love to just build my portfolio for a year and then apply for a job in game dev directly, but that seem to not always be the best choice.
So I see 2 options for me next year: 1) continue on a masters and build my portfolio meanwhile, meaning I'll only be able to actually start my career at 26. 2) build my portfolio now and try to get a lesser interesting job but game related so I get experience right now instead.

Option 1 sounds super depressing to me but more realistic, option 2 sounds better but no idea if it could work.
In my position, what would you have done ? (thanks for reading if you got all the way here :o)

lilac walrus
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the age at which you try to enter the industry is pretty much irrelevant and at 26 you're still young enough that it isn't even remotely a topic of conversation

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the diplomas you are going to obtain are unlikely to help you in the games industry much, but may help in other industries, so it is up to you whether you want to pursue them or not

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a master's degree may be useful if you want to look for work abroad, but as an EU citizen you're a lot less likely to need that than someone who is not

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(basically only if you want to go to the US / Canada / UK)

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everything else is portfolio - how and when you build it also doesn't matter

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but it's generally accepted that nobody walks out of school into a games job so it makes sense to take other employment whilst you build it up on the side

placid frost
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ok, that's super encouraging to me, but yeah I'm considering quit hard Canada, as a Canadian friend of mine working in 3D told me that Canada was in high demand right now, and obviously, the most well known studios are almost all there

lilac walrus
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there's a few large studios in Canada, but no more than anywhere else with an established games industry

placid frost
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(I've been told that age doesn't realy matter already but that's so hard to get through my head, as all my friends are starting their careers now)

lilac walrus
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eh, you are not your friends, everyone does things at different times and there's no point measuring yourself against anyone in that regard

placid frost
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I know but even if I know it to be true, it's still hard to acknowledge, I'm human after all

lilac walrus
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as an aside though, I believe the French games industry is larger and more established than Canada

placid frost
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Realy ? I have Canadian friend working in 3D right now telling me that Canada is currently in high demand

lilac walrus
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everywhere has demand for capable people

placid frost
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true

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Well I'm going to keep doing embedded soft while building my portfolio, and I'll see for the degree depending of my options next year

lilac walrus
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seems reasonable

hybrid phoenix
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Only hard part is getting in and establishing your competence

carmine olive
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It also starts with competent recruitment.
When I ask around, industry vets inform me that not only you are right... there is a shortage of competent people or talent.
But the source seems to come from the recruitment process.
Also, we can observe that for many new jobs... they are often taken by already established employees moving between studios.
We aren't injecting enough new blood into the industry. For every batch of 30 graduates, maybe 4 are really good.

shut token
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Mixture of, people hear the horror stories and they don't want to stick around/enter the industry, or just the standard story of the company not wanting to train anyone.

placid frost
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And I wonder, what do you consider a "good" game dev ?

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or maybe easier the other way around, what do you consider a bad one

pastel estuary
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both come with a long list/description XD

placid frost
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yeah I bet πŸ˜„

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let's say, what are the main 5 things ?

flat gazelle
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First counter question. What do you consider a game dev?

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I can easily describe a good FX artist, but beyond the basic people and office skills it won't be very relevant to an AI coder for example.

digital gate
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I guess you could genericize it to "Ability to utilize tools effectively and consider how work fits with previous/future work and other disciplines"

You could be a rockstar with visual studio and systems arch, but if you can't work with artists you aren't going to do well on almost any team. Plus it doesn't matter how strong a system you make is, when you've implemented something that doesn't fit anybody's design.

You could write the most cohesive world, but if telling that story is not feasible with the current game it will go to waste. For instance, a world emphasizing dynamic faction interactions when the game code has never considered factions or doesn't have any sort of relationship tracking.

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Anything more specific is going to vary by role

flat gazelle
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And I don't think either of that makes some a "good" developer. Just an existing one.

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It's like saying I'm a good human because I both breathe and eat food.

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I'm a default human πŸ˜„

digital gate
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Default Gamedev

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Could work as a solo brand actually

placid frost
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To reply to everyone,
Yeah what you described is basically getting down your client's expectations and designing your product in consequence, I agree that's a basic thing for any programmer really ^^'
I'm more interested in the details, what makes you find x better than y given that they are both capable devs

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(my initial question was way too large, sorry)

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That being said from your answer I understand that's it's really not that different from my experience as a web dev or embedded dev, besides at all the stories told about game programmers, if I extrapolate from your answer, it seems like it's not so different from other prog branches after all

hybrid phoenix
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You need to be a team player, you need to be eager and willing to learn - both 'standalone' and in the sense of learning from your (inevitable) screw-ups, you need to be competent enough that you won't be a detractor to efficiency beyond your first few weeks

stray vortex
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is it possible to work on remote jobs

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are there many unreal dev jobs out there?

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or is it rather hard to get one

pure kettle
mossy pine
cunning otter
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@placid frost I did the opposite of you. I am a 32 year old American living in France looking to work in video games after telling myself I wasn't dedicated enough to get a job or that the industry wasn't stable enough to support me for 15 years. It will only be right for you if and when you decide it is. There are wonderful and crappy companies and environments in every field. Do your part to make it a good place to work and don't think any further.

-France has an unapparelled support system with its social security system. Don't look down on it and keep that in mind when thinking about moving to another country. Health insurance in the US is no joke and it is very expensive for anything medical, and I am led to believe that France is better then Canada on a whole (unemployment, economical stability, etc) except for the job market.
-Degrees are about 10% as important in North America when compared to France. Completing any diploma is good enough unless you are trying work in the medical or engineering/sciences fields. There is no need to get a masters or doctorate. All it does is says "you had the means and the mental fortitude to tough it out and get this paper." In France, well you know how limited it can be, but I don't know if that transfers over to video game companies as well...so if you plan to stay in France, I would continue with school since your opportunities would only increase.
-If you are thinking about moving to another country to work, do it, its a wonderful experience and it will push you to meet your expectations (in my opinion).

For experience. Keep making stuff, join in game jams, and keep adding to your list of projects and experiences. Join a team developing a mod and release it. These are universal strong points in getting a job in the industry that haven't changed for the 15 years I watched it.

lilac walrus
cunning otter
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Thank you @lilac walrus for the correction...then I misunderstood where expenses must come from living in the UK. I just heard it isn't so easy.

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I could have sworn people complained to me about healthcare and expenses, but I guess I took them as one and the same, no two separate topics.

hybrid phoenix
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Problem with UK is that you're generally paid very poorly relative to cost of living

craggy nacelle
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^I did always wonder about how this works, I once considered moving to London for a dev job and I was looking for apartments and it was super expensive even at the outskirts unless you wanted to live in a broom closet

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A broom closet which looked like it was from the middle ages

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Apparently yeah, not sure why anyone would move there on the kinda salary that was being offered

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The salary wasn't like low or anything, it seemed typical for the area and position, but at least to me it was a pretty bad deal

placid frost
# cunning otter <@!167716256840024064> I did the opposite of you. I am a 32 year old American li...

That first part you mention is exactly what I went through, and "Do your part to make it a good place to work and don't think any further." is exactly my mental state and why I say that what made me consider getting into game dev is basically getting maturity.

I totally agree with France's support being realy good (but it is also true that I lack visibility on how the US / Canada's social security system is), but I also value experience a lot and that's why I considered moving if I have the opportunity to do so.

My current plan is to finish my current degree, afterwards even though I'd love to get a full time job asap, I guess the best compromise for me would be to finish with a master allowing apprenticeship on embedded soft (I may even have an opportunity to do a master in cybersecurtity allowing apprenticeship, I may will go for this since I could actually get to learn something out of my degree then), and build my portfolio and doing game jams in the meantime.

That being said, thanks a lot for the time taken reading and answer me ! As someone living in a place in the countryside with not a lot of ppl to talk to about that kind of stuff, it was super helpfull

placid frost
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That's a good point about embedded πŸ˜„
And yeah cyber is a little special but what's nice about it is that depending on what you do in it (and it's as large as the cs world itself) you can learn stuff about anything. And since it's a blackbox for a lot of ppl currently I might not have as much problems explaining it to recruiters, at least I hope

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(because web dev was fun but for me personally I'd rather reverse C++ code all day than doing that again πŸ˜„ )

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and yeah the salaries are also much better than embedded, at least in france

cunning otter
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Embedded in is a bit of a passion career/field too.