♿│accessibility-discussions

[woven knot]

Now personal preference such as chat is too small aren't quality suggestions

How is that not a quality suggestion? It's not a personal preference either. It's a matter of fact. They are marketing this game as an MMO. It's not exactly an MMO when someone can't read the text that allows you to interact with other players. They've set up various aspects of the game to almost -require- being able to group with people and communicate via text with them. When you can't read the in game text, that aspect of the game becomes missing, even worse, EVERY OTHER MMO has this very basic option to pick the chat box text size!

It's literally like 6pt font on my screen, when I need 18 to read. Just because you apparently have exceptional eyesight doesn't mean everyone does. My left eye is only correctable to 20/40 and my right is blind.

The game claims to be an inclusive place for everyone. Disabled people are part of everyone.

[stone orbit]

Listen - I SOOO get the Anxiety thing as I have a "few" of my own and Totally Understand!
If you like - Come to MY Place and we can do this together! - I believe you still get credit -- AND -- No worries about the Social Anxiety as you can leave whenever you want and I won't take it personally.

What do you think? - Do you think this may Help You??

And I am being Totally Legit and Honest here - NO ANXIETIES SHOULD BE BULLIED IN ANY WAY!!

So how about it?
Sorry - I just saw this when I came in and had to reply...it's prolly been a while, but hey - got to try, right?

If you did manage to find a "work around" - No worries - I just like to be Helpful!

You can find me as Yahmay! - lol

HAVE A GREAT PALIA DAY EVERYONE!

FYI
I have Submitted the Following Tickets/Requests for LOOT, MAP & RUINS
I believe that not being able to enter the Ruins Counts? - Or is this just for Game Access?? - Any Info would be Great! - Thx!:
see --> #💻│tech-help message

[hoary heron]

Just a heads up that all those emoji get read out loud by name when using a screen reader, which can be an unpleasant experience. (Not trying to mod here, just sharing a tip about accessibility in Discord posts and other web messaging spaces 💜)

The issues you linked appear to be bugs/technical issues with the game, so submitting the tickets (which we have no access or insight to) is the best route for S6 to see them.

[radiant sun]

Furthermore, other MMOs often have ways to trade items between players so there's always that to fall back on if something is inaccessible. With Palia, there isn't a true trading/auction house feature even though there really needs to be (I know some people say it would be bad for in game economy, but it really wouldn't as long as prices are fixed) so if something like Flow Trees or Magic Sernuk hunting is needed and you can't do it you're basically screwed.

I have a similar problem with fishing. It's inaccessible to me, but required for 99% of the bundles and since there's no trading or auction house I'm locked out of that content.

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[stone orbit]

Oh God I'm So Sorry!!! - They just looked So Pretty laid out as a Rainbow...
I'll be more mindful - Thanks!

[hoary heron]

To be fair, they are very pretty 🙂

[daring current]

To chime in on the "cooking is an accessibility nightmare" discussion, the timed events are really awful for anyone with psychomotor processing issues such as those with ADHD (which I have). People with ADHD can have a significantly slower psychomotor processing speed, meaning it does not matter how much energy we put into focusing, we just cannot chop those veggies in a rhythm. Rolling seems to have a wider margin for error as I am far more successful for that, but I spend so much time chopping one ingredient that the timer on food runs out. Some people with ADHD might have an easier time with quicktime events, but psychomotor control is one of my biggest struggles to the point where I simply avoid games that require specific button combos in addition to QTE - instead of playing games I'd love to experience myself, I have to watch people play them because I will never have the motor control fast enough to get beyond the tutorial. To make any food, I need to be in a cooking party where I can be overprep. I am incredibly fortunate I have found a small Discord community who does cooking parties weekly. Not every user with psychomotor processing issues is going to have a community like that to turn to, especially if they get that double whammy of comorbid social anxiety that often comes with ADHD.

[hoary heron]

I personally also think that the timer continuing to run down while we're stuck waiting for the cutting board to reset and allow us to attempt chopping again adds to the frustration. Like, we already made a mistake and have to try again, but we lose precious time waiting on an animation we can't control? grumbles

[cosmic stone]

If you go to your inventory, the wheel is on the left, and you can drag and drop the icons for tools to where you wish them to be

[static wolf]

Honestly, given the way palia is where there's no real incentive to "win" over others, I wouldn't even mind if the "economy" was messed up with free trade because there's no real economy, and accessibility takes prioority over the economy for me. But yeah, required fishing absolutely sucks (especially when they require some of the hardest fish in the game). And the new quest requiring cooking (including incredibly complex recipes and needing to get star quality) and making furniture with high-level resources (and then taking those away so we don't even get to keep the fruits of our labor) is so inaccessible for this content that's supposed to be new and cool. One of the new recipes even requires 3x meat of the new animal, which isn't sold at zeki's shop like the other meats, which means it's locked behind hunting (another skill that can be inaccessible) as well.

In general, I firmly believe that every quest should have at least two options from different skills because it would be much more accessible. And we absolutely need better trading/gifting/improved requests to let us ask for what we don't have so we can get things we otherwise wouldn't be able to because they're locked behind inaccessible skills

(That is to say I agree with you, I realize my tone there looks more argumentative than I meant it, my apologies )

This is somewhat related to accessibility, but @ Melodic (or another shepp), would it be possible for you to ask whether they want our feedback on controller support in bug reports or the feedback form, and which category it falls under? I've been testing my controller (I'll write up something about it here soon, just want to get a bit more accustomed to it so I'm sure I give y'all accurate information), and I want to send feedback (particularly in regards to making controller support more accessible) in the right place

[hoary heron]

Yup--we're inquiring about that 🙂

[static wolf]

Thank you so much <3

[cursive flame]

After my request, someone explain me the same.

Thanks btw ^^

[indigo remnant]

Is there a glitch happening with the party up feature? My friend and I cant party up or sync to each others servers or whisper to each other

[hoary heron]

I think that was an older bug; you might have better luck in #💻│tech-help

[indigo remnant]

Ok ty

[elder veldt]

Yeah as Melodic said that is an older, persistent issue as far as I can tell! Something that's worked (every now and again) is just having both people restart their game.

Of course, if/when it's a server-side issue (very common for beta testing), there's not much you can do on your end besides waiting it out.

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[static wolf]

so the new questline involves a cutscene and they added subtitles! which I know should be standard, but at least when I joined the intro cutscene and the one for another questline didn't have subtitles, so I'm very glad they responded to feedback and added them

[cursive flame]

Is there any chance to be able to use the hunter horn while the rare muujin are hidden on a tree?

When you are hunting a rare sernuk or chaapa, the hunter mark not desapear but in that case it does. I know the point is "be hidden" but if you can follow and track others animals with this object, would be so bad to keep tracking while hidden?

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[wild cosmos]

we need a hug emote lol we keep walking through each other as a hug but we want a proper emote!!

[static wolf]

This would be a good thing for the feedback form (see the message above you)

This channel is more for discussing accessibility, apologies if I'm missing something but I'm not quite sure how your suggestion relates to accessibility. If it does and you could explain, I'd be more than happy to add it to my list of accessibility topics I regularly submit to the form!

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[jade cairn]

Absolutely this. I play Palia alone 98% of the time, and the majority of “friends” I have that play are other players I’ve met in game (so still strangers). I don’t want random people on my plot just to finish a specific task.

I have cooked all the new dishes alone, but the one that has 20 different steps had my anxiety through the roof.

[jade cairn]

As someone that is hypersensitive to sound, I keep my game volume “in the middle” so that I can hear my surroundings, along with the music (I find it therapeutic).
I wish there was a way to adjust player sounds (the sound of others jumping, running, etc nearby, etc) vs overall game sounds. For instance, I like being able to hear the sound of Proudhorn Sernuk teleporting, so that I know it’s nearby, or the sound of mining palium, so I know it’s palium and not iron, or a regular rock. But my hypersensitivity hears so much at once, and it’s overstimulating (and for me, the sound of people repetitively jumping with the glider makes me want to scream. I hate it).

[static wolf]

Yes I agree so much! (And also I'm so very sorry if I've been one of those players doing glider jumps, I'm trying to stop that). There are so many sounds combined into one slide from the ones that help with skills (like you mentioned) to environmental (like waterfalls and windmills) to your player sounds (the eating one :( ) to other player sounds (like you described). I would love each of those categories to be different at a minimum, though ideally some sounds would have individual sliders (ex. Eating bc it's specifically a common trigger). I also like to have sound up to hear mining, flow trees, forageables, fishing nodes, and bugs, but it makes being near windmills and waterfalls unbearable. I have to choose between having a plot with a piece of decoration I find very nice (the windmill) and actually being able to hear the game

[jade cairn]

If someone does the jump/glider 1-2 times, that’s fine, but when people do it like 6+ times, or are running in a circle around a flow tree doing it…AGSGSHJSHSGSKK. I run out of earshot when that happens.

I actually took the windmill off my main plot because the sound was beyond irksome. I put Zeki’s mini statue of himself in a random area outside, so I didn’t have to hear the noise.

The environmental (waterfall, music, birds) sounds are fine for me because it’s soothing. The mining and foraging sounds are nice so that I know what happening/it’s nearby (especially when sweat leaf or a sun drop lily is hidden in the bushes, but I know it’s there because of its sound). I do hate being right beside someone shooting flares/fireworks because of how loud it is. Conversely, when I’m far away from it, but can still hear, it’s nice to know someone is signalling something (usually a flow tree). The eating sounds are horrible, along with the sound of other people running (it may be a bug) while I’m in a NPC dialogue. That constant foot tapping noise makes me want to rip my hair out. I take my headphones off when that happens.

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[static wolf]

With the response about data-mining today, I wonder if it also implies certain mods that have been developed for accessibility reasons (reshaders being the biggest one I've heard of) are also okay since they work in good faith and uplift the community? Or at least in that ambiguous ground of "not something we can endorse as official, but not something we'll take action against"?

[spare socket]

Hii, so am very brief with wording but yes, you can't endorse these tools as official HOWEVER, if it makes the game easier for you to play, and is not harming any other players (none of us would do that) go right ahead. just know they will not be officially endorsed! So you got that correct.

Per Gdubz announcement (as you quoted directly from) this is the intended understanding.

I feel like it's excellent news to know that they're not being sanctioned against and I am extremely excited to see what accessibility tools people will cook up from this that can benefit our subcommunity

[static wolf]

Okay, I'm glad that understanding applies to accessibility as well! I don't use a reshader because I'm too dumb to mod and the brightness largely doesn't bother me as much, but I've got a friend who couldn't play because of migraines and she was worried that because of the ToS against modding, she might get her account banned or wiped. I'm also really excited to see what people might be able to do now that they've been a bit clearer!

I remember hearing whispers at one point that someone had been developing a mini-map mod, which I know has been a long-requested accessibility feature, so it would be cool if this means that mod could be used by people without fear of getting sanctioned

[spare socket]

I would need to see if I could get more of a response on tools like that, cause I do not know. But I'll try to ask tomorrow

It is possible that there may not be an answer given, or that it can't be given yet though so keep that in mind. But I will ask 😊 I don't mean on my side but just in general for clarification

[static wolf]

Thank you for asking ❤️ . I know they might not be able to give a solid answer because it's tricky, their message today just gave me some hope about accessibility mods that I hadn't had before

[barren atlas]

ngl the idea we'd have to make accessibility tools ourselves in a game that advertises itself as inclusive is more than a little insane

[quartz maple]

yeah. but i feel like palia is going to be really slow adding any meaningful accessability tools and options anytime soon. better to have the tools sooner then later to me

[static wolf]

oh yeah, without a doubt that's extremely messed up, and they absolutely need to be better about adding accessibility features into the game (especially since it's advertised as inclusive and cosy). but at the same time, I guess I'd rather have the tools unofficially through mods than not at all

[wraith zenith]

Najuma

Channel Reminder

Hi!

This channel is for discussing accessibility features for Palia with other players.

While S6 devs are not reading this channel, you can be sure your feedback is seen by Palia's developers in the following ways:

• Leave game feedback here:
  https://palia.info/feedback

• Formally report an issue here:

https://support.palia.com/

• To discuss general issues with other players, go here:
  #🦋│issues-discussions

• 📌Be sure to check pins for important reminders.

See you around!

[radiant sun]

hmm... "Controller Support is just one of many asked for accessibility options for playing Palia, and work will continue to support and expand those options in 2024. We know many people have continued to play Palia with controllers up to this point and we’re excited to bring you these updates early next week!" I'm not sure if it's just me, but this kind of reads like they only accessibility they're currently working on is controller support

[hoary heron]

I suspect that the team is very limited. I'm glad to see more information about that particular feature, but hopefully once it's settled (since it seems to be a fairly complicated system on the back end) they'll be able to move more swiftly on other accessibility tools/options/support things.

Still a long ways to go, but I feel like it's another step in the right direction from where we were before?

[spare socket]

So I unfortunately do not have an answer on that yet. I asked, and I got "needs more clarification with the team" which I expected might be a possibility. But once I know more I will share with you here

[static wolf]

Thank you so much!

[radiant sun]

It's definitely a step in the right direction, but feels like a baby step tbh. Glad they're finally getting to accessibility, but sucks tht it's taken this long to even have it mentioned in a dev blog.

I just hope that accessibility is made a priority before full release, otherwise I personally can't see myself coming back to Palia again :/

[static wolf]

I'm particularly interested to see how the camera assist will work with controller, and to maybe see that expanded to mouse in the future (which I know wasn't mentioned in their dev notes, but potentially having it developed for the controller could accelerate development for mouse)? I feel like camera control has always been a limitation on me playing the game, especially when I switched to controller (which otherwise provided a mostly enhanced experience). I will be interested to see what changes they actually make to control layout though.

Also, they said this was the final time they'd adjust which buttons correspond to which controls, but I didn't see any mention of us being able to rebind those? I appreciate they're putting thought into optimizing the controls, but I'd like the ability to rebind to make them more intuitive, personally

[hoary heron]

Yes, I noticed that as well and I hope we'll be able to configure the bindings.

[static wolf]

Not sure how feasible this is programming-wise, but one thing I think might be good to add is a way to switch to preset tools using left trigger + x/y/a/b. I like that I can quick hit left trigger to put my tool away or equip my last used tool, but I find it nearly impossible to switch to bug bombs during mining/trees since I have to use the tool wheel. Again, not sure how possible it is to have tool equips tied to a combo of two buttons pressed at once, but it's something I think would be a good move to give additional options for people to switch tools

I fully intend to do a full writeup and share my thoughts here soon... I'm working on it... but another thing I noticed was that there was really no way to cancel out of shooting your bow/throwing bug bombs other than going into the inventory menu- I hope that's something they'll be adding in their controller support update

[hoary heron]

Am I recognizing correctly that that sounds similar to the hotbar-swapping method when playing XIV on controller? (I'm not great at using it myself but other folks swear by it, so I definitely can see the value even if it's not of benefit to me personally)

[static wolf]

I admittedly have not played XIV so I couldn't say unfortunately

I guess the easiest way I could explain it is that right now, I select a tool by holding down LT and moving my right stick around the circle to choose an option. What I'd like is that if I'm holding down LT and click the A button, it "jumps" to my bug belt (for example), and then I could move my right stick around to select something else or, if I release LT, I get to have my bug bombs equipped without struggling with the right stick and wheel

[hoary heron]

Oh that's fair--I may have crossed you mentally with another Soup-fren...

Yeah, I think both controller and keyboard could benefit from being able to do multi-key/multi-button combo bindings

[static wolf]

At least with keyboard I have so many keys that I can get away with a single key bound to everything, but with how limited the controller is I do think investing in some multi-button bindings would be interesting

[pastel mica]

Even 2 button bindings would be helpful on the keyboard for me. In most MMO settings I'm accustomed to doing keybind stuff with my left hand and mousing with my right.

Also the controller menu you are describing sounds a lot like radial menus in other games.

[static wolf]

Ah okay, I'll admit the last console I had was a wii, so I'm still getting accustomed to the terms for everything

[static wolf]

Also very interesting to hear your perspective on two button bindings for keyboard as well, thank you very much for sharing and I hope they can add those also because it does sound nice + more accessible to be able to set it up like that

[pastel mica]

It's not something I personally use but I wonder if the current binding system supports MMO mice (the ones with the multiple buttons on the side.)

[static wolf]

I remember someone mentioning those - can't unfortunately remember if they worked and to what degree though

[hoary heron]

It does--I have one! Though I'm not always good at using it.

[noble kelp]

Pretty sure they are only working on controller support so they can spread to more platforms

[proven thicket]

These would technically work - generally the mouse software works by letting you assign keyboard keys or combinations of keys to the different buttons. So you'd assign the F key to one, G to another, etc.

[pastel mica]

That makes sense yeah. So at least there's a way to use it if the game doesn't recognize it offhand

[hoary heron]

I'll try to take some time to go into the game and take fresh screenshots of my keybinds--at the start of beta, I wanted to see how close I could get to playing Palia using only one hand, so I had almost everything bound to buttons on my MMO mouse. I haven't checked how the tool-wheel adjustment had impacted it, as my focus at that time was testing the current state of controller support (which isn't official yet, but there's some functionality already in the game).

[woven knot]

I am about to give up.

I can't read the chat box. The font is too tiny. I've submitted feedback on this over and over and over. What happens? A quest gets put in where you need to be able to see the chat and GROUP in order to get enough flow infused wood to make all that furniture.

I cannot read the chat so I don't know where the flow groves are unless I randomly stumble on a group. And of course nobody's willing to help fulfill the wood. I have spent hours and hours trying to get enough wood. How many do I have for about fifteen hours game time? A grand total of 15.

[static wolf]

I very much feel that, this new questline feels especially inaccessible in terms of requiring specific types of play, and the chat is still just so. Darn. Small. I have also submitted several feedback forms on the topic. And requests are so hard to fulfill now because on top of the bug where what you're allowed to request is reset upon relog, you also can't fulfill requests from your storage with this new update- the items have to be in your inventory again

[radiant sun]

What specific play does the new questline have? I haven't played in a very long time, so not sure

[barren atlas]

I suspect the same...but also, you can rig controller support with a tool like joy2key, so working so hard on controller also seems almost silly.

[static wolf]

Well, like halandor said, it requires a lot of flow wood, which can be challenging if you can't read chat. Can also be challenging with social anxiety or if you use a controller, since you have to switch back to your keyboard to use chat. Then, the next quest requires you to cook some of the most challenging recipes at star quality- recipes that require ingredients you can only get through hunting, and the timing is pretty tight & unforgiving if you want/need to do the recipe alone.

[radiant sun]

Ah, I see! I thought it used cooking, but wasn't 100% sure. Feels disheartening that they'd introduce this quest when, if they've been reading accessibility concerns, they'd see that those systems are heavily inaccessible and the most talked about inaccessible things within the game.

[barren atlas]

we aren't even an afterthought lol

[radiant sun]

literally, with every update it makes it even more clear

[static wolf]

Another cruel thing to me, which is not specifically an accessibility concern per se, but feels especially mean in the context of us having to adapt to inaccessible systems, is that the quests take those items upon completion. So you have these furniture pieces, which can run up to 40 flow planks (which, as Halandor said, can be an extreme time investment when you have to adapt to inaccessible systems), and then it gets taken from you, so if you liked it and want to use it to decorate, you have to do it all over again. That and specifically requiring star quality food, so you might go through everything to cook it with star quality ingredients and still roll that % chance and not get star quality food, which requires you to go through the recipes repeatedly

[woven knot]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jackson-mj-they-dont-really-care-about-us-they-dont-care-dont-care-gif-4996740

[barren atlas]

even the communities they mentioned in the old dev answers don't get any consideration; roleplay's brought up but you'd think there would be some kind of census or info gathering or something from the distinct communities in palia @.@

[analog wadi]

I wouldn't necessarily say it's a accessibility thing but I'd like if there was a solo player feature where it's just you and no one else. Probably most achievable by making an offline mode. I'm not very social and I sometimes dread talking to people and the game is a bit too social for me sometimes

[rain terrace]

I think it's interesting that they found Cake Parties too overpowered, essentially, but were impressed by our ability to network and create entire websites dedicated to every stage of a cake party, from gardening to decorating to signups...To make cake parties happen. Then they nerf cake parties, so while they still happen, they arguably happen on a much smaller scale.

Then they create Flow Groves in an attempt to give us more flow wood for the things we already had to make, but then simultaneously make a technically time-limited questline entirely dependent on flow wood to even START the quest line, and then entirely dependent on hunting parties to get to the next stage, and then mostly dependent on cooking parties to get to the NEXT stage of it...

And it just REALLY seems like they thought "Well, they were so proactive with cake parties and networking, we're sure they'll do the same thing with networking for Subira Parties!"

And like...As devs, don't you want people to be IN your game, using your GAME to PLAY your game? Instead of outside of the game, using multiple other platforms to play the game? One would think it would be the former, not the latter, and if it was the former, then you would ensure that there wasn't an ungodly need for those items in a timelimited situation, AND that the IN GAME way to network and coordinate to DO Subira Parties....WOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL?

One would think....

To quote ChiCha from Emperor's New Groove... ~snorts~ I gotta go wash something.

[woven knot]

I hope with an 8 hour long patch and testing stuff out they're working on implementing some long asked for accessibility issues

[glossy jacinth]

I just solo a lot in game. Sometimes it is while I cannot see chat, sometimes it's just how I play.

[analog wadi]

Same but you still have to interact for call outs and stuff

[somber quail]

The new questline issue with all the flow planks is a big one to me, I was so exited to have more questions to do, and I had a fair bit of flow wood saved up, but I passed over upgrading my tools to get enough for one of the pieces, and to learn that I dont even get a copy or anything sucks. Also with how often you end up on a different sever, I have to be standing in bahari Bay eyes on chat for ages just to know I'd someone's found a flow tree or Grove. I spent that time and have little to show for it, so that's why I'm playing other games rn, that actually reward time put in and care about me

[elder veldt]

Would anyone here be willing to join or observe an experimental, practice muujin cooking party with us today at 8:30 pm EST to provide feedback or suggestions on how we might do what we can on our end to make them more accessible?

We're working out All the details from setup to logistics, procedures and accommodations.

[hoary heron]

Ooh, I have a graphic that may help @elder veldt

This guide is a good foundation and may help with splitting out tasks--crafted by the wonderful Sisqui Nanamook! https://docs.google.com/document/d/12qPAmfZx5RDPfLrTRvLy3K5jVgsWK6CbPRIa0uGzOVI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[elder veldt]

Oooh this is a brilliant visual guide! Thank you. We're planning on using 20 individual stations so this is a huge start in the right direction.

[elder veldt]

Invitation and offer still remains for people who would like to be present there! Again, you don't even have to participate, you can just hang out and watch it all unfold to see how you feel about things and provide suggestions or ideas! #1180859592662597773 message

[woven knot]

Which we can't do when we can't see the chat!

[analog wadi]

But in an offline mode, you wouldn't have to do call outs and just do resources yourself

[lone flare]

I wish I had been in here this morning, I went and made a flowchart because there were so many steps haha.

[hoary heron]

Hey--if you're open to it, share it! Different formats work better for different folks!

[lone flare]

#draft -- made using https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_(graph_description_language)

[cyan flame]

How do you play offline with a game that won't let you in unless you're online?

[analog wadi]

That's why I'm suggesting an offline mode for more introverted players

[cyan flame]

Ahhh, now I see. I thought you were already able to play Palia while offline, that's why I was confused. 😅

[analog wadi]

Totally fine! There's not really a suggestion page other than here. And it's sorta an accessibility thing for me as an autistic introvert

[cyan flame]

There is a feedback form for suggestions, iirc.

[jade cairn]

I like being in quiet servers (specifically Bahari because that’s where all the chatter is), so it makes me very self conscious to repeatedly call things out when I keep stumbling on flow trees, etc.

[sly dew]

I'm just seeing this, and whether or not I ever attend a party with you in that space, I want to express my deepest gratitude for the effort you're putting into making it accessible.

It makes a difference. It moves the needle. Thank you so much.

We have to talk about the server update. This is going to be a HUGE problem. It's bad enough that they flat refuse to hire someone as an accessibility consultant to monitor this channel and collect the information on the disabled players' COLLECTIVE issues with different game components.

Now, we're also not allowed to call someone out for directly causing us harm with their ableism? We have to run to tell the teacher, so to speak? They're now infantilising, silencing, gaslighting, and victim blaming people with disabilities for speaking up for ourselves. They've also heavily implied they will be punishing us for doing so in ways that hurt the poor feelers ... OF THE PEOPLE BEING HARMFUL.

This crosses a very dark line, and we can't stand for it.

Full disclosure: I'm one of the people who was involved in the latest incident that catalyzed this response. I'll be glad to detail every bit of it, here, to be judged at your leisure.

[radiant sun]

That line about no "moral-policing" definitely feels like trying to make community with bigots. We shouldn't strive to make community with bigots, especially when Palia is supposed to pride itself on inclusivity. If someone's a bigot and says bigoted things, they need to be held accountable.

[sly dew]

I have screenshots of the entire thread, except for the bits the CM deleted. Those bits are details I can fill in, if asked to do so. I have the receipts. There were witnesses to every interaction I detailed, and I neither lied nor exaggerated any of it. I was simply truthful.

I will try to give an extremely abridged version of the backstory, but if anyone wants to see the screenshots, I will absolutely post them. Or DM them, if that gets blocked. I haven't yet spoken to the witnesses, and I'm not trying to put them on the spot publicly without their consent, but if they give me that consent, I'll let you know in whatever way they feel most comfortable with. They didn't ask for any of this BS, either.

[hoary heron]

Wait did something else happen? I believe the post in that screenshot was in regards to the Paliapedia-Sheppocalypse thing that exploded over Thanksgiving and then burned for a few more days after that until S6 came back from holiday...

[radiant sun]

There was another thing where a player at a cooking party was being ableist

[sly dew]

I attended a cake party, and as usual, informed the host of my auditory processing disorder. I asked for the attendees to not do noisy things, so that I could hear the UI sounds to cook. Which I need to be able to do, in order to do whatever role I signed up for.

At this party, the host and several of her friends were chaotic and all over the place, jumping around, deploying gliders, throwing smoke bombs, shooting arrows, whacking the ground with their picks and the stations with their axes. Aside from my personal issues, the party was slow AF bc of it.

I kept repeating my request that they cut down on the noisy stuff, and reminded them about my disorder. They still never stopped.

They started typing in chat in Portuguese, but only off and on. Whiletheir running around and not paying attention was the sole factor in the party taking so long, they were discussing with one another the other players they were scapegoating for the snafus. They were mocking them and being quite insulting.

#1176935724600262737 message

Oh nice. It's already started. I've typed at least two messages here that have been deleted

Dear Singularity 6, censoring the marginalized players who are trying to discuss the ways in which other players are causing them harm is NOT "creating a cozy and inclusive space for everyone."

[radiant sun]

I don't see any of your messages that have been deleted, unless they were just sent in the last few seconds (do very much agree thougt)

[sly dew]

They were deleted as soon as I typed them. I know I submitted them, and they showed up on my screen, but they're no longer there

[cyan flame]

If the messages were deleted right after being sent, there's a chance that they accidentally contained a word that the bot in charge may have detected as inappropriate and acted as it was programmed to respond.

[hoary heron]

Wow! Okay, so not a mod, not an S6 employee or anything like that--just a disabled, neurodivergent Shepp here.

That whole experience is so frustrating--I know some folks need to stim and bounce around and such, but others get overwhelmed and overstimulated by such things so it's important that we organize our group events to take that into account. It shouldn't be hard to get folks on board with building an equitable space, but it can be. I'm driving a similar discussion for IRL events within my company's community on how we can make our real-world holiday gatherings more inclusive from a variety of angles: simple room access, lighting, dietary needs, welcoming spaces for those who get overstimulated, etc. And keeping in mind that something that makes things more accessible for one person can make things inaccessible for another person, so you have to find a way to balance the two.

It's something I really appreciate about the work Marcy has been doing in-game, and we've collected some suggestions about those things as well in our accessibility workaround sheet.

I know you may have heard this before, but if someone is bullying you in the game, you can report directly within the game as well. Please also know that by stating that I am not saying that you deserved to be bullied if you didn't report--sometimes you don't know how, sometimes you just want to get out of there, or there's a bug, etc. Only sharing it as an option towards player safety, not a judgement either way if your did or did not report. ❤️

I really hope we get additional volume sliders so we can have more control over what sounds we hear in-game--that would help a good bit with managing auditory stimuli.

Oof--I think the lede got lost in there (I am not word-ing well today)--which is to say, your experience sounds horrible and frustration and I hate that you went through that. I hope you're able to connect with better cooking pals here. I don't know if we'll get further clarification on that announcement from last week, but Gdubs has been out sick.

[sly dew]

I did report, and it hasn't helped.

[cyan flame]

Now that you mentioned additional volume/audio sliders, I've just been reminded of yet another useful audio option that could be added in the game: a slider to tone down or completely silence any noise made by other players.

[hoary heron]

Yes! That's a feature I LOVE and swear by in FFXIV.

[cyan flame]

Once again, I'm taking Warframe into account here, because it's the only game I've played so far with this specific setting.

[sly dew]

Whether it was automod or CM, the fact that a non-profane, bland and factual accounting of the situation IS censored, but the harmful behavior is NOT... 🤷‍♀️

[hoary heron]

Sharky7, I really need to pick up that game again--it's been a few years...I used to run a Frost Prime with a bow. I am...not great...but it was fun.

[sly dew]

I'm going to have dinner, and I'll be back later, but this is a seriously concerning development that is also just a continuation of everything S6's ACTIONS have conveyed from before open beta began.

It's not ok

[hoary heron]

I hope your dinner is delicious, comforting, and gives you a bit of respite from all this.

[cyan flame]

You might or might not be in for some very chaotic return. There have been things added to this game that might blow you away.

(Can also continue this chitchat in DM, if you wish. )

[hoary heron]

Sure--I'd love to hear more!

[quartz maple]

the more time passes the more im conviced that there are no disabled people in the ranks of s6 and the game is being designed with abled people in mind. with how low effort the 2 accessability options are rn, im not having high hopes

[sly dew]

Had dinner. Watched some Narcos. Drooled over Pedro Pascal and Paulina Gaitan. It was a nice respite, @hoary heron

Sat and dreaded coming back to this conversation. But I can't just walk away. I can't just let this continue to happen to anyone who's being victimized by bigotry and then silenced for speaking up about it.

I don't want this. This is not enjoyable for me. This trend from the devs and server team has been sucking all the fun out of playing for a while, and it's just getting worse.

I keep thinking that if I just explain the facts to the right people at the right time in the right tone, someone must be a decent enough person to respond with something tangibly helpful. They keep proving me wrong. At every step, every opportunity they've had to SHOW DISABLED PLAYERS THEY MATTER AT ALL, they've basically done the exact opposite of the right thing.

THEY are responsible for this situation existing at all, bc they ignore accessibility as if it's just some gnat buzzing in their ears they can simply keep brushing away.

If there were even the simplest accessibility feature - like those audio sliders mentioned above - this wouldn't be an issue.

Their refusal to put simple brightness/contrast sliders has literally caused migraines and seizures bc of the way sunlight hits the water at dawn and dusk in most places on both maps, and still they've done nothing. Not even acknowledging that the need exists. This and the audio issues have been mentioned in reports and forum discussions (before they did away with those) since late closed beta, at least. They've never once been mentioned in dev notes, patch notes, or the ever expanding "known issues" list.

If there's another way to interpret that, I'm all ears.

[radiant sun]

I heavily agree with you, Egwene.

I haven't touched the game in about four months, maybe more. Each update extends that. Frankly, it's absurd that it's taken so long to get even one accessibility feature - and one that compared other features (like brightness sliders or seperated audio channels) likely took more time to develop. It is, and continues to be, increasingly clear that the inclusive branding of Palia is simply that - branding.

There have been so many words, but very few actions. There have been more actions decreasing the very limited accessibility of the game than there have been increasing the accessibility - that's a problem.

I know devs don't read this channel, which I think speaks for itself, but S6 really needs to hire disability consultants because they're losing Disabled players faith quickly. Many of us have nothing else to do besides play video games and it's a shame Palia, for many of us, can't be one of them.

[limpid tartan]

Really need to add a new function to gardening.

Holding left click with fertilizer equipped will pouring the fertilizer into the crop until you let go.

That will be really nice, lessen arthritic pain and promote longevity for our computer mice.

[sly dew]

This. Every last word of it.

Just for clarification's sake, I want to be clear. This person waits and watches the parties, and, even when there are multiple parties with open spots, will snatch up the last remaining spot in the one I'm in, whenever they are able. This person seems to have no problem speaking/typing in English whenever they're actually in game, or when they spend paragraphs insisting that this is all my fault, then claims that they never heard me say anything about my disorder in the first place, and/or that I'm a liar. Neither of those things exists in even the same universe as the truth.

I'm being followed specifically to cause me distress and anxiety, because they find it entertaining to do cruel things, then convince others they're the victim bc they "don't speak English very well."

But my posts are somehow the problem. Describing the issue is worse in their eyes than causing it.

[static wolf]

This sounds incredibly awful and I'm so sorry it's happening to you. Have you been able to reach out to modmail at all? This behavior by them seems completely unacceptable and in full violation of the discord rules (though plenty of bigots have slid by those before... I can recall severall -phobes replying directly to staff without getting messages deleted for several days). I truly hope this gets better, and that they can do something about this to help you.

I haven't felt up for hosting cake parties in a while because hosting is a lot for me, but I've got winter break this month, so if I can host any I will absolutely let you know and be sure to keep this person from coming in and causing you any distress

[quartz maple]

honestly i advocate for the disabled community to be really loud on social media and move from palia. that'd probably finally wake them up or it'll show their true colors and will lose them so much more people

[sly dew]

Thank you so much. I've hosted a few parties, myself, but it takes a lot of spoons. Like you, I don't always have them.

Modmail has so far been pretty much what you'd expect from a company who treats disabled players this way. Empty platitudes and encouragement for everyone to get along. Reminders that you can block people. Useless, patronizing nonsense.

But I'm so grateful for you being willing to create an inclusive space like that. 💖

[sly dew]

I'm all in on the being really loud bit. On social media and, if possible, on other forms of media. As many as possible. As loud as we can be.

The other part? I understand it, and I don't want to push for anyone else to stay. I just don't think there are enough of us willing to step away to hurt their bottom line. Since that's their top priority, and since they've clearly shown us they neither want to nor intend to prioritize accessibility and real inclusivity, I don't see that making any difference at all.

I also don't think enough of the player base cares enough about these issues to actually allow it to harsh their "cozy" vibe and do anything. Certainly not leave the game.

For me, staying and never shutting up is the tactic that's more likely to get a response.

While this tweet thread was specifically referencing a certain group of people who shall not be named, the same principle applies to any group of folks who... allow their own privilege to turn them into callous bullies.

If you prioritize the oppressive, discriminatory people, and ignore or silence the oppressed and harmed, eventually all you'll have is the former. It becomes a •••• bar.

[static wolf]

yeah I'd agree that the general playerbase doesn't seem to care too much about accessibility things- heck, just a few weeks ago (if that), someone came into this channel to announce that us asking for things like being able to make chat bigger so we can read it is "personal preferences" because they could read it just fine and we should thank S6 for fixing bugs and adding new content. that asking for accessibility things was like "buying a nissan and having complaints about it". I'm a big fan of being here and talking to people and submitting so many feedback forms and hoping eventually that can enact change, I don't necessarily think a large portion of players would boycott (and, selfishly, I do still enjoy playing a bit when I can avoid the things that make it inaccessible for me).

I am interested to see what changes they make to controller inputs- when they announced they were doing it this patch, I deleted all my notes about the current control scheme, but I'll be sure to write up something on the new control scheme to post here

[sly dew]

Hey, I'm certainly not going to judge you for any of this, and I completely agree with most or even all of it.

I still enjoy playing, too. When the accessibility issues and general casual big otry isn't making it miserable.

I want those of us who have the spoons to do so to become a nuisance, a thorn in their side instead of a gnat in their ears. Always present, always noisy, always standing up for the right thing.

[static wolf]

I remember this is an argument we had to have a while back with moderators about certain people making homophobic/transphobic comments that were "dogwhistles" (which I put in quotes because the dogwhistle was more like a train whistle) that would stay up for a while (like, days, and they'd only get deleted if several people reached out to mods to report it). And similar things have happened in accessibility for a while in terms of people trying to police what is/isn't accessibility, people telling us to just leave and play a different game, and back in the days of the old feedback format, people would sometimes react with a to accessibility requests. They still happen in this channel (though thankfully rarer than I think they were in the past). I don't really blame any individuals (EDIT: individual moderators/CMs, I absolutely blame individuals who are hateful/toxic/harrassing others), but I do think as a system this server sometimes has issues with identifying harmful people and removing them.

sometimes people aren't talking/acting in good faith and they shouldn't be treated as though they are. Like the post you linked says, it has to be nipped in the bud immediately. you have to "get to recognize them", whatever the symbols of oppression are

[sly dew]

YES.

I mean, look. I get it. When your experience of the world is one that does not include facing such hatefulness yourself, it's difficult to learn to widen your perspective. It takes actual effort to unpack your privilege and the things to which it blinds you, and it's not a comfortable process.

But if you're going to make the claim that you're creating a safe space, an inclusive space, you're accepting that sometimes uncomfortable emotional labor. You're volunteering for the job.

And they've done worse than fall down on that job.

If they don't get accessibility consultants for this game and this server, they will never improve. Which means this game will never live up to what they've always claimed it would be.

They've made a lot of mouth noises about all the right things, but they've never once put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Not a single time.

And they won't ever, unless we become too much of a PITA to ignore.

[static wolf]

Yeah I agree, accessibility consultants would be good because it helps the company build a systemic support for accessibility with expertise available instead of relying on people in various parts of the game development process who may or may not be familiar with the wide array of accessibility issues

[sly dew]

They also need diversity and inclusion experts who focus on things like those you mentioned. Homophobia, transphobia, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, etc. also need to be addressed, not ignored.

[static wolf]

yes, for sure, I think those types of experts would be valuable not only for community moderation, but also for examining some of the in-game stories that, in my opinion, occasionally tread on or cross those lines

[sly dew]

"No moral policing" be damned.

[cyan flame]

Never forget 👇

[sly dew]

I say we make them regret sticking us in this corner so they can ignore us.

Please detail how any of this is "goofy."

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-gif-26205842

[static wolf]

I mean, to be (slightly) fair, this corner was an explicit request by us because we used to be housed under feedback, so when they removed that from the discord we were without a dedicated place for a bit- but I definitely agree that us organizing and demanding accessibility things is 10000% what this space is for

[sly dew]

Except we USED TO have a forum they actually read. That's why they got rid of individual issue focused forums. Then we were upset, and got noisy. So they gave us a consolation prize of a place we could talk, but wouldn't be a bother.

Like a kids' table at holiday dinner

[static wolf]

I sometimes doubt they read that forum though- it was so big and chaotic (though I agree there was at least the promise that they would, which was a comfort)

[sly dew]

They read it enough to become uncomfortable when we started getting too noisy.

At a minimum, someone in the chat, presumably the CM, was notifying them when things started to tilt towards places they wouldn't like. Now? We've been placated, but not with anything that addresses any of the issues, except being able to talk to one another.

IDK. I'm tired, and frustrated, and constantly disappointed in 75% of the stuff they do, compared with who they claimed to be.

I wish I could send them a holiday card.

[static wolf]

Some of the controller accessibility things seem like an improvement, though I'll have to test in game of course

• camera lock sounds very nice so long as it works as expected (would be nice for them to add it to keyboard players as well)
• very excited to try out the bit of aim assist as well as to see if it is just hunting or also bug catching- I almost exclusively use my bow for flares, so it's not a problem for me to take my time with those, but I've found it near impossible to catch bugs. If there's some aim assist with that, it would be nice
• I'm curious to see if inventory being moved away from Y will fix the problem I had where when you try to eat food (or open makeshift chests) from your hotbar, you could only do it from Y, but then it would also flash the menu at you. That made me pretty much have to play controller with keyboard close by or I'd be flashed with the menu constantly while eating.
• sprint to Y should also fix the problem of not being able to sprint on your home plot that I'd been experiencing due to downpress on left trigger being the "H" of the controller for home decoration

There are other things that were problematic with the controller that I'll see if they fixed and didn't mention or just haven't fixed

[sly dew]

Idk about a lot of that, but I am now experiencing the inability to sprint. Anywhere.

And I managed to get into my plot once, but now I can't get back.

And there's still not a single mention of sliders for anything.

But that's ok. I'm about to have 8 hours to write an article about all kinds of interesting Palia related things.

[static wolf]

Yes, no brightness sliders still is very very frustrating. And no text size adjustment options (idk if those would be sliders or drop down menus). I really really hope they have those in the works somewhere

[sly dew]

I wouldn't hold my breath, if I were you.

Audio sliders, brightness sliders, text resizing options, contrast controls, menus with the ability to input a number, instead of clicking dozens of times.

All of these are extremely simple solutions to extremely harmful problems. Which at this point means they don't gaf, by default.

I've never played MMOs. My partner has, for years, but this was the first time I felt like one had something to offer that piqued my interest. Unfortunately, the REASONS it piqued my interest were all absolute BS. Marketing. Nothing to do with the actual product. Or the intentions of the dev team.

Actions speak louder than words. It's a cliche, sure, but that doesn't make it any less true.

I would literally rather burn the whole thing down than just watch it be successful in spite of the false advertising, bigotry, and apologism for the bigotry.

[radiant sun]

Whats even sadder is that every MMO I've ever played, even the ones made my greedy corps that don't care about players, still had these features.

[sly dew]

That's definitely the worst part. We all KNOW it's possible, not terribly difficult, and that there are easy to find examples. IF anyone actually cares enough to look, to try.

But no.

[hoary heron]

There's been some great discussion here, and unfortunately I'm super limited on spoons so I can't engage as much as I'd like right now (day job is running me into the ground and stress is so high I'm on a ginger-ale and saltines diet for the nausea).

I like and appreciate that we now have an Accessibility section of the patch notes and dev updates--I hope it stays and I hope it continues to grow.

It's true--the devs aren't able to take the time to commit to reading this forum. And the preferred mode of feedback is through the feedback-form. That being said, Yohannes (another player in here) has a doc tracking the suggestions folks make in here, which can be utilized to make writing feedback less onerous, and I have a document of workaround-solutions we've found and are sharing in hopes that it may help others with similar challenges. Both of these documents have also been shared directly with S6 as well, and I think the steps they're taking in the patch notes/ dev updates is showing that someone is listening there, and trying to make steps in the right direction. (Yes, this should have been in there from the start, but I'd rather it start to happen now than never happen at all)

Now that being said--puts on HR hat it seems like teams may be rather siloed at S6; it feels like everyone's short-staffed, heads-down focused on creating the thing they're working on but not necessarily communicating with each other. In addition to the sliders and other accessibility pieces that should be there, new content should be going through an accessibility review before launch and I suspect that may not be happening, which then creates new problems to be fixed. I feel like there are individuals at S6 who hear us, agree with us, want to help us, but it's hard to make headway with that w/o full org buy-in & commitment, and I'm not confident they have that. Definitely leaves me w/complicated and conflicting feelings about the whole thing. 😖

[hoary heron]

I'm not at the burn-it-down level myself--still clinging to hope that with enough feedback, enough data, enough conversations and discussions that I/We can keep pushing the needle and Palia will become the accessible, inclusive game that we were promised. (And I certainly am not judging anyone for losing heart and feeling angry, frustrated, exhausted, burnt out, disappointed, etc. These words are not to invalidate anyones experiences and feelings.)

But I'm not in the S6-can-do-no-wrong camp either. Pushing for accessibility is one of my primary focuses as a Shepp, and the fatigue at this point is...a lot. This is a battle I'm fighting here and in my day job, and in most places whenever I leave the house. Maybe one day I'll hit a point where I just can't anymore, when I fall out of the "But-Maybe-I-Can-Fix-It" stage and succumb to the salt. There have been a few moments that almost did that.

But I'm still here, and I'm grateful for all the perspectives (except those who come in here trying to invalidate our needs for accessibility), the experiences, and ideas shared in this space--you all help me have better understanding of more struggles, disabilities, and lived experiences including and outside of my own, and that helps me fight better for us inside and outside Palia. ❤️

[sly dew]

I know I haven't expressed it, but I'm grateful that you're here, and that you don't spend as much time as most CMs do blowing smoke up our 🍑🍑

I had a whole other message get eaten by the bot for some unknown reason, but I'm also sorry you're dealing with so much ish, all the way around.

[hoary heron]

❤️ Just to clarify, I'm not a CM, just another player who happens to have a funky icon next to her name. But, I do what I can to help out the kind (but majorly overtaxed, IMO) Palia CMs we have here by elevating key accessibility points and helping make sure these things don't get lost under the avalanche of things on their plate, especially with Amelia being gone. I am the Clippy of Accessibility, but hopefully less obnoxious 🤣

And thank you--I personally believe one can be salty, frustrated, angry, disappointed with a game and still want it to be better and love it for what it could and should be. These things don't have to be mutually exclusive and I think if we weren't able to talk about the things we don't like or that frustrate us, we'd never have the perspective needed to find a better way.

[sly dew]

YES. That's exactly it. I love Palia for what I believed it would be and hope it still can be. I'm just so tired of feeling like that doesn't make any difference at all. I'm tired of devs ignoring simple fixes and of other players causing harm with impunity.

F. I'm just freaking tired. Of basically everything.

I came to this game, in large part, to escape the bigotry and hatefulness in the real world. Now I'm fighting it all over again on this front, as well.

[elder veldt]

Hey Egwene, I've been super busy with finals and only just now got caught up with things here.

First of all, please do add me in-game or on discord anytime and let's see if we can't have you over for a cooking party one day to see if our attempts to be more accessible are any bit successful at all. You can watch, audit, or participate if you'd like! ♡ Whatever works best for you if that's the sort of community-led activity you've wanted to engage in but avoided until now because of accessibility concerns.

That invite is open to everybody of course but, Egwene, you responded to my call-out so I'm responding to you!

Secondly, yes. I empathize sincerely with and personally understand your exhaustion. There's nothing quite like finally coming home from spending your 3650th day (or so) outside in the world dealing with ignorance or even bigotry, only to come home and see more of the same. And Palia is, in many respects—whether for us as players or because of marketing, as you mentioned—home away from home.

So yes, maybe right now the team is in the process of learning how to run and manage a home. And we'll need to give them the patience (yes, I know) to learn how to do so fairly while they engage new challenges they may never have faced in their own homes, or lives. Maybe the devs have their priorities running amok being as short staffed and pressed to the wire with bi-weekly content updates (they're hiring for engineers and an engineering manager IRCC, according to their careers page). It's up to us to have the compassion, as our routinely beaten down community always has, to be forgiving and hopeful that things will change.

And, things might be slow and incremental now but they're happening. And although the devs may not have the time to read this channel, I like to think that this channel has galvanized an incredible community to come together and discuss the real issues of accessibility which then allow us to submit fulsome, valuable suggestions through the official channels (feedback submission forms). That's an important distinction I haven't really seen in many, or I think any open beta I've participated in the past decade.

All that to say, I hope you're able to rest and care for yourself. Know that it's okay to take a break from being in the trenches and fighting this battle 24/7. We're all here right alongside you, and (hopefully, I believe) alongside S6 to work towards changing a paradigm of inaccesible gaming that has existed for several decades.

[late cosmos]

Don't even think it. The Thought Police will use what you say now against you further. They could label you as another provocateur agent, spreading a personal insight of morals is a threat to the program.

[hoary heron]

I mean to ask--how did your university project go? How did your Disability Justice classmates like the Twitch and Palia-Cooking experience? Did it open their eyes to new avenues of community outreach and engagement?

[elder veldt]

It went really well! Classmates, peers, were telling their friends about it and how they're just glad spaces like that can exist, and active efforts are being made to bring these sorts of spaces together: physical, virtual, academic, gaming, streaming, etc.

One of the profs that was present was so excited by the work she's happy to supervise for the major research paper / project since it'll likely focus on this sort of work.

Another prof that was present asked if she could offer this topic as a focus for one of her lectures for her Health & Disability Policy course next year, she'd like to have us host another stream and invite her future class(es) to it like we did with this last one, but this time effectively being a guest-speaker / lecturer. Her courses are co-opted with students though, so the students would need to agree that it's worth their time and interest for it to come to fruition!

We've made lots of new friends both in and out of the program as a result of that stream too, so now it's a matter of figuring out how we can pool our collective minds and energies together to make this something that benefits all participants and our communities moving forward. That's the hard part. It's slow and incremental like all things involving major shifts, but we're determined to make it happen. Preferably with Palia as the gaming medium.

Another note:

We also come from a political science, law & society background before any of our Critical Disability Studies work. To that end, Palia's community when it comes to ad-hoc mobilization and mass organization for cooking parties, flow parties, and other events have been very eye-opening for others when it comes to community engagement in online spaces, and their power — something that we've always known about.

[sly dew]

I'd love to help you work out any kinks in accessibility with your parties, if you like! Thanks for the invitation.

I'm a bit bothered by the suggestion that we need to be the ones to have compassion on this one, though. Yes, that's the way it has always been, but that doesn't mean it is the way it is now, or that it's the way it should be.

The requests that have been made are excessively simple, quick fixes that would make life easier for anyone who is already struggling. They've been made in every available channel, including the official reporting form and even a special spreadsheet developed by players in this forum. The players have tried asking, begging, pleading, demanding, and any other possible tone or method to get their attention.

Actions speak. They do not care about us, or our experience. Patience is not the appropriate response to such callousness, and will only allow them to continue to treat us this way more comfortably.

Their staffing issues are their own fault, as they've laid off and fired a great many good employees, despite the money they're raising from a beta test.

Being kind and patient and understanding, empathetic and helpful, is their job. It's not up to us. They literally billed this as an inclusive space, so it was up to them to consult the experts they should've had on this project from the beginning, to build the space they promised.

They're not changing the paradigm. They're only slapping a coat of pretty paint on it.

[static wolf]

This is so so cool

[sly dew]

If they want our help in that vein, they're probably going to have to start by acknowledging the issues we have already brought to their attention.

[elder veldt]

Add me and/or DM me and let's figure out a date and time!

As for your frustrations, which are many people's frustrations including my own, I'd like to take a moment of your time to share a story.

David Lepofsky - a blind and active advocate for the disabled community in Toronto, Ontario, once honoured one of my poli-sci classes some 5 years ago by coming to us bright and wide-eyed young scholars, future lawyers, future policymakers, and present activists, to talk about disability justice and alliance-building. In short, it was a very pointed and very honest lecture about how much the world sucks when you're a minority within a marginalized community (something I personally live with), especially when you're up against a task as monumental as getting sighted people to understand that the world just does not exist the way they see it existing.

David founded and headed, at the time, AODA Alliance — a disability consumer advocacy group that works to support the full and effective implementation of accessibility standards in Ontario (via compliance to the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act) dating back since 2005.

One of his stories he told us about was related to the very building we were sitting in, high up on the 15th floor of our ivory tower. He and his compatriots had advocated for several years and worked directly in advisory committees, boards, and other such capacities with the university to have the campus comply with the AODA. Progress was being made. True, real progress. Academic accommodations for both sighted and blind students, audio-cued crosswalks and less obstructive, hostile architecture, and just getting disability into the curriculum wherever, whenever possible.

Progress.

Then, one day, a new building being architected by a team outside of these efforts designed awkward, diagonal staircases with random poles in the middle of nowhere, handrails that abruptly changed sides or stopped going along the staircases, and other horrifically dangerous design implementations that were approved purely on the basis of aesthetic design. Several years of hard work, seemingly undermined overnight by yet another ignorant group of people "who just couldn't care less."

David told us that the hardest part of this work isn't just constantly not being heard. It's constantly being disappointed that we're just not there yet. And we aren't. Not just Palia - a single game on the internet - but the whole world just isn't there, yet. There were many nights where he and his colleagues just wanted to throw the university to the curb, rise up and decry their bigotry, ignorance, and accuse them of little more than corporate greed. But he cautioned us as he cautioned his allies:

"Who left will be on our side when we stop believing in the few who are at least trying? The reality, as much as we hate to admit it, is we're easier to ignore and leave to the curb, than to make space for."

The university is a massive organization filled with hundreds of decision-makers and departments who are siloed, and bent under the pressure of an unforgivingly cruel and limiting economic structure of worker exploitation. I think, similarly, S6 are fighting on the exact opposite end of that spectrum. Where they have, effectively, a community ranging in the hundreds of thousands with, currently, 3 CMs and an indie dev team that's trying to keep up with keeping the beta hype train rolling so the game isn't dead-on-arrival.

David, that day, needed someone to guide him to the facilities because, of course, the floor did not make it accessible for anyone. I walked with him that day with our arms linked, and asked him if he wasn't completely outraged by how unfair all this was. That he'd be experiencing this ableism while lecturing us on allyship.

His answer was simple and profound.

"Of course I'm outraged! But outrage wasn't what brought us to the table. We have to be allies, first, then be angry at each other second."

Tl;Dr

Things are far, far from where any of us would like to be. Very true. But it's not over, either! Rather, the work has only just begun. And you're not alone in this.

[sly dew]

I will gladly align with those who would be my allies, but I'm not going to beg for them to treat me like a human being.

Again, I do understand where you're coming from. I do. And I'm glad he accomplished those things. But this isn't the same at all.

They used us, the marginalized, and our needs, to market their product. Then ignored everything we've said in the interim.

And there's a big problem with forcing all the emotional labor onto those already doing more of it, and therefore less capable of adding even more to their plate, instead of just doing what you said you'd do.

I'm not wasting time placating or coddling the already coddled and placated.

[elder veldt]

We'll agree to disagree on method and approach, even though I agree with your sentiment that in an ideal, perfect world, people would just naturally know to not be ableist / disabling!

I have to disengage for today as not to completely take over this channel, but if you'd like to talk over this some more please DM me if you're comfortable, I'll be in and out but around to hash out ideas and grievances with a fellow human ♡

[sly dew]

I would like to say, publicly, that every tool has a purpose. While I disagree with your method for ME, that doesn't mean both aren't needed on some level.

For me personally, I simply find that one far too distasteful.

I'd also like to clarify that I never expected them to "just naturally know." I specifically mentioned hiring consultants who do. And we've all given them a ton of info they're still not even acknowledging.

[placid gale]

disabled fans of a game shouldn't be having to basically do the work of a hired disability consultant for free. it's not just time and spoons used but also emotional labour that can be triggering and plain upsetting to have to repeatedly explain and beg over and over again why they need these things to be able to join in, and not be listened to

[noble kelp]

Disney Dreamlight Valley has done the EXACT same thing to its disabled fanbase as Palia as done here. DDV deleted the old accessibility channels and had to implement a new one that is just for warning other players about new features that can cause seizures, migraines, motion sickness and the like. So basically the new channel is a husk of it's former two channels - one for submitting feedback and the other for chatting back and forth. They also haven't implemented like any accessibility features, have repeatedly silenced us to the point that disabled players rebelled and made their own discord channel, and don't have any accessibility features showing in the Known Issues area that players rely on to see what's being worked on. I've dropped both games completely, but not enough people know about these companies being supremely awful to us. In order to organize for change, we gotta advertise what we're going through. I hate that we have to do all this free labor for anything to be done

[maiden pilot]

In a perfect world the talk that is going on in here would be completely different. We would talk about how great this game is, how amazing it is with helping/enabling people to play it with all it's accessibility features and settings, how friendly and inclusive it's entire community is and we would be running around in real life telling each and everyone of our friends and family to start playing the game because it is one of the best gaming experiences we ever had.
But the world isn't perfect and so aren't we. Every single one of us struggles in this world, some of us even more than others because we live outside the norm. It doesn't matter if the reason for this is based on something physical, mental, skin color, gender or simply because we like to wear clothes considered being strange. Fact is we are still people and we live our lives alongside of all of you, we do share the same likes, dislikes,fears and even the same heartbeat. But usually the people that struggle more than the others are simply not seen, not recognized and often times simply forgotten.

A lot of us have found ways to adapt to a world, to a life, to hobbies that are not meant to work out. Many have achieved things they were told by others they never would, super heroes don't need a cape to fly.
But still, even so many people achieved this with pride and even joy, a little help to make things easier, little adjustments that don't distract or interfer the ones not needing them, a helping hand and a kind soul that works on getting all of us at the same table, even someone just listening and acknoledging the issues some of us have would help a lot. It would be the first step into the right direction, every journey starts with the first step you know. It doesn't matter how long this journey will take all of us, the only thing that matters is that there is someone willing to make the first step.
Yes, this is just a game and yes we are just a minority compared to all the ones having no issues playing this game. But there is a whole community full of hope, full of joy and full of people lurking in the shadows that could make a big impact increasing your playerbase, giving you free advertisements ( we do talk to each other, no matter how but we do) and even generating some extra income for your company that you would not get otherwise. So if someone of the game company is reading this, do give this a thought it might be worth it.
All it needs is one (company) willing to take the first step of the journey and Chapaa knows where this journey could end.

Just so you know, we are still here, we are ready to go on this journey. We just need someone willing to go on this journey together with us and I really hope that someone will be your game and your company.

[late cosmos]

Good luck expressing your own side, it would just be deleted.

[cyan flame]

it's okay. If anything gets deleted and anyone banned from here for speaking up their mind about any issue, there's always a more public "slander service" on other social media platforms. -cough-

[late cosmos]

This might be a dumb question .. Would you be upset if I washed your dishes for you? (it would be a chore you could do, instead I will take that time and task off your hands freely)

Simple yes or no answer.

[cyan flame]

What does this have to do with people talking about issues they have been experiencing in a channel dedicated to that, and being told: "Good luck expressing your own side, it would just be deleted"?

[late cosmos]

I understand if you don't want to answer.

[cyan flame]

Hmh, I understand if you don't want to answer me either.

[late cosmos]

Huh?

[ember girder]

Hello guys! Just a gentle reminder to everyone, let's keep our conversation safe and light here even though this is a discussion channel.

I hope we can respect each concern raised here and create a safe space to discuss it.

Please always keep in mind our community 1️⃣ Respect and kindness above all and 5️⃣ Stay on topic.
Familiarize yourself with the channel description to make sure you stay on topic. if you guys aren't familiar with our rules, please check it here #🔖│rules

Thank you so much everyone for helping one another!

[late cosmos]

Would you be upset if I washed your dishes for you?

[ember girder]

Nope, not at all, more than happy bud! But I hope we can give this space for players to discuss accessibility in Palia.

[late cosmos]

Thanks, I love washing dishes. An I will be sure to test the ph on them as well. They will come out so clean you can even see your reflection!

[winter edge]

Accessibility? wat dis

[elder veldt]

A prompt for peeps here:

What should these patch notes say? If you could make it happen, what would/should be done by now, or by patch 0.175 with urgency, in our opinion?

P.S. any feedback on the existing little bits of accessibility updates?

P.S.S. We'll be writing a template for formal feedback submissions which can be redistributed, edited to individual intention, and sent for review. Just gotta keep that wheel squeaking til it gets done!

[radiant sun]

Not sure I quite understand the question, but in terms of what should be done by now text size options, brightness sliders, and individual audio. These are the most basic accessibility features and it's kinda whack they still aren't in the game.

[elder veldt]

Edited for clarity, hope that makes more sense!

[radiant sun]

💞 Thank you, then my answer is still the same

[cyan flame]

One word: sliders.
Sliders to change the font size (either chat only and/or also on the UI).
(More) sliders to choose which audio should be more prominent over other effects/music.
Sliders to adjust brightness and contrast, and also to tweak the intensity of possible colourblindness filters.

[maiden pilot]

Agree to all that has been said above and I want to add : Possibility to opt out cooking timer if one gets stressed out/scared/preassure is too much. Or at least the option to double the time they give you for what you are cooking, so a fail does not hit so hard/you are under less preassure. I mean something to tick inside the option menu so everyone has a choice to tick it or not to.

[devout echo]

The controller changes aren’t great. It’s impossible to sprint from the controller and there isn’t atleast a controller map somewhere just to look at

[hoary heron]

They moved Sprint to the Y button (Triangle on PS controllers), which I've found to be less painful than the previous "click-down-the-left-thumbstick"

[devout echo]

It’d be great if they listed it on the patch notes and included a map in the controller area. I’m fine not changing the key bindings but I shouldn’t have to play a guessing game so I can use my controller ya know 😦 but I appreciate your response. So I can adjust once the connection issues get fixed hopefully today lol

[hoary heron]

I figured it out from the notes--second solid bullet point where they talk about shifting various default controller settings and mentioned some of those changes. I agree though, a graphic or list of the default bindings in their current state would be nicer 🙂

I did just discover an improvement though! We no longer have to remove the tool from our hands to pick up the thing--e.g. before this patch, if you chopped a tree with your axe, you had to put your axe away before you could pick up the wood. Now we can pick up stuff immediately after chopping/mining/etc. without having that extra step and repetitive motion!

[elder veldt]

I'm at my second ever gender-affirmation appointment today, have finals to complete and other duties ... so I apologize my engagement will be limited to but I promise I'm keeping track of these things and will produce a distributable letter / doc to submit to official feedback channels, once I have a second!

Appreciating everyone's participation in this, especially knowing a lot of you have felt that you've repeated many of these points many times before already. Patience and time cracks all stones!

[radiant sun]

I know it's not accessibility related, but congrats on your appointment!! I just got finished having a top surgery last month and hope everything goes well at your appointment

[hoary heron]

I'm so happy for you!

[static wolf]

Congrats!!! I'm waiting on insurance for approval and then I'm headed the same way :D

[static wolf]

On the topic of accessibility & the recent patch, how do people feel about the auto-move camera option for controllers?

I was really expecting to like it, but honestly it makes me super motion sick. I wish I could choose its speed, as is I'm planning to leave it turned off

I still need more time to evaluate auto-aim, it's hard to test because things move as I'm aiming so I can't easily test how close I have to get for it to activate. As is, I think I feel like my shots are hitting more, but could just be placebo because I didn't get to spend much time in it

[hoary heron]

Sometimes I like it, sometimes it's nauseating. I'm trying to use it more to figure out how I'd want to be able to tune it and what aspects of it provoke the nausea for me. (Edit: the auto-turn)

[static wolf]

I feel like it's somehow too slow to be useful and so fast it makes me nauseous

[sly dew]

I had to submit a ticket, and added a short version of the complaint regarding them still not implementing sliders. Doubt it did any good, though.

[wide pawn]

Hey y'all, what's the new button on the controller for getting to the menu with options and exit game and all that? Start was changed to inventory I think

[hoary heron]

I haven't found it yet, unfortunately. I keep having to just Esc on my keyboard, then waiting for the menu to load due to the current bug.

[static wolf]

I think they removed the ability to do that with this change

[elder veldt]

Thank you for the responses, @radiant sun @cyan flame @maiden pilot @devout echo ! Follow-up for y'all (and @hoary heron @static wolf @sly dew you're all welcome to answer too!)

So, if you've got the time & spoons, explain to me like:

1. I have no idea what it is you're experiencing;
2. Why / how it obstructs or complicates your comfort & experience;
3. And how adding your suggestion would make things better for you.

I have my own reasons for believing all of these are important, necessary suggestions. But because they're all your ideas it'd be best to capture your own experiences and perspectives. If you'd prefer to DM an answer feel free, or just ignore this altogether and I'll continue working with what we've got

[devout echo]

I have MS, my fine motor skills are rough some days. I also have tremors. The controller is easier especially since I do play from my bed.

It helps controles give me more freedom so move if I need to. And worry less about wsad.

Having an illustrated map of the controller binds would help me know what they do without jumping in with no idea. Eventually if we could change the binds like we do keys it’d be helpful to those of us who. Are used to certain buttons. But the map access in game (I’d settle for discord) would help me be sure I’m pressing the right things

Also @elder veldt thank you for doing this

[radiant sun]

Think I have this right, but apologies if I don't the brain has not been braining well in recent months.

Text sliders would be beneficial to the game because right now the text is very hard, and for some impossible, to see at the size it currently is. To see the text in Palia, I have to lean forward until my face is right in front of my monitor (I wear glasses so sight isn't the issue) which, as many know isn't very good for the eyes. It also means that many players are gatekept out of multiplayer experiences in game and, if they are a new player, completely unable to progress, if they can't attend/see flow tree call outs.

Since the first lighting change in Palia, brightness sliders have been asked for. Currently, as it is in game, it's very hard to tell when it's night due to how bright and washed out it is. This can be hard on the eyes, especially for someone like me who gets migraines from bright colors. Not only would having brightness sliders allow people like myself the ability to play, it would also help when doing more bright activities like the obstacle course (which takes place in the sky) and fishing

Audio not having individual sliders provides a negative experience to the game because player sounds, especially fireworks or arrows, are mixed way too loudly above other important sounds like bugs or cooking UI. This can make multiple avenues of the game hard, or borderline impossible depending on your needs, and cause migraines for those of us (again like me) that get ill when there are too many sounds or sounds with very large differences in volumes (for example very quiet, whisper like sounds make me ill and feel pain due to my misophonia) this makes things like cooking parties very difficult since unfortunately many people do very loud things in between tasks.

[barren atlas]

I went from having slight difficulty seeing at night to being totally light blind because of the brightness and contrast changes 😐

Now every time there's a lantern it strains my eyes. I turn them off but people run over and flip them back on. I tell them to please not to and people in cooking parties park next to me just to flick it on.

[fleet sage]

Hi, can you please work soon on a camera rebind? We're 10% of left handed in your game, that is not much, but many of us mirror the wasd/zqsd on the other side of the alphabetical part of the keyboard, which makes the K button important. I'm on a azerty keyboard, so I walk with oklm instead of zqsd. And right now I have to move the camera to move forward or backward, instead of using the left control. And of course, I accidentally press K when I shouldn't. Force of habit. I'd be surprised if it really is complicated to configure for you.

[barren atlas]

Will add that to the list of accessibiltiy requests

[static wolf]

I feel like people have summed up the reason for sliders pretty well, I will just also add- the first lighting change, as many mentioned, made it difficult for a lot of people to play because night was a lot brighter, but for me, personally, it was easier. Which is another argument why we need brightness & contrast sliders specifically, and not just going back to what it was- sliders accommodate people with a wide range of visual abilities. I play minecraft on 100% brightness and my friend who I play with needs it very low, settings like that help a lot.

I think the addition of the fishing rod sliders after they tried to just change the value to make it accessible is another good example of why these settings need to be sliders and not set changes. For some, the slower fishing speed was/is beneficial to aiming, and yet for others it increased hand strain from having to hold down the button longer. Or look at how they've changed the text size on inventory items several times- each time it's better for some, worse for others

[static wolf]

Definitely put this in their feedback form, they don't read this channel (I've also been submitting this, they frequently listed it as a bug so my hope is that they intend to do it? But I think emphasizing it as an accessibility issue can help accelerate their work on it)

[fleet sage]

I'm sure I did a couple months ago, but I can't see it in "my activities" so I don't know how long it's been (or if I actually haven't posted it???)

[static wolf]

You could submit it again! You could also put it in their feedback form (it's in a pinned message, unfortunately they've changed the mobile format and I can't find it or I'd link it)

Edit: found it! https://palia.info/feedback

[fleet sage]

I was already on that page...

[static wolf]

Ah okay, I didn't realize that had "my activity", I'm sorry! I thought you were referring to the reporting a bug page

[fleet sage]

the "reporting a bug" page has this (screenshot), and the feedback one sends to the special form

[static wolf]

Ohhhh okay, I've never tried going to it that way! I think those submissions count toward your activity because it doesn't log your account, so there's no way to know what you've submitted. When I'm in doubt, I usually just submit again

[maiden pilot]

Cooking timers should have a menu Option to tick to make them gone or at least to double the time. A lot of people have issues with being stressed out, scared, feeling too much under preassure while Cooking and that causes anxiety attacks, mental shutdowns, up to full blown meltdowns.
There are a lot people having issues with fine motor skills and or general movement issues like constant tremors.
Current times when failing a cooking action this can either be the end for the recipe because time to restart the action eats up the time of another or putting people under even more stress and fear.
This game calls itself cozy and cooking timers currently are the complete opposite of being cozy. A change is needed for cooking timers.
I tried my best to write this, If something should not make sense, words are missing or wrong words are used please tell me and I try again. I'm German and I have a speach disorder and I often times cannot get the right word (out) for things.

[static wolf]

yes absolutely agree- and I think you and the way you wrote it make perfect sense! I can see why some people like timers (the appeal of games like overcooked), but I definitely think letting us turn them off and would be huge for accessibility

[devout echo]

Atleast extend it. I’ve ruined plenty of food in game because I was coughing or having a hand tremor so the chopping and I were not working well

[manic warren]

Hi. I followed Palia during its development and was super excited to play. I played for the first month of beta but I would get sick after 30 minutes of playing. I tried turning on the motion sickness mode but it was still bad. Has anyone else experienced this and has anyone found a way to get around the motion sickness? I think it has to do with how close the character is but I cant zoom out any further (I think) I play WoW too and in wow I cant ride certain mounts or I get motion sickness. Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?

[static wolf]

Hi! I've definitely seen a lot of people say that- I think one thing discussed earlier that could help was changing FOV, which can change how zoomed in to your character you are? Unfortunately, I also remember that if you increase your FOV to max, it fisheyes, and I don't recall what people's recommended FOV to help with motion sickness was

[manic warren]

Thanks. I will try fiddling with that a bit. I am excited for it to come out on Switch and I will try it there if nothing else but I would love to play on my fancy computer instead haha

[cyan flame]

1. What is "what you're experiencing" referred to? Physical conditions or bugs in game? Just making myself sure before I might accidentally give the wrong answer

2. What do you mean with that whole question? All I can think of is that the "/" is a chat command (also in game) that shows a list of available commands that can be typed.

3. A question I can answer without double-checking, yay me!
   My latest suggestion was about the different type of sliders:

• A slider for the font in either chat and/or the UI in general would be preferable to a few, fixated values, because not everyone sees the same, so not everyone has the same degree of visual issues. Doesn't even need to be about (legal) blindness; for instance, I am severely astigmatic, and have been keeping the chat size in another game (totally not talking about Warframe for the umpeenth time ) at 125%. I do wear glasses for my issue, but a slightly bigger chat size is also a nice help
• More sliders for the audio, so that we can choose (for example) to turn off ambient noises/effects but keep the sound clues from things like forageable, so that specific sounds won't be drowned out for those with auditory processing issues. I'm also mild-to-severely hoh and when I have two noises overlapping like in the example, it definitely gets harder for me to pick up the sound clues over everything else.
• Colourblindness sliders is something that I remembered from Warframe (yes, again. I'm sorry ) and decided to try and suggest for this game too. I'm not colourblind myself, so Idk if, besides the 3 known colourblindness conditions, there are also different "intensities" for each type.

[sly dew]

I'm going to wait to read any other responses until I've written mine, bc if there's duplication, it's definitely something worth a bit of extra emphasis. But I'm about to crash, so it'll be later today (if my memory holds lol) before I can respond with anything like coherence.

But thank you for asking.

[night frost]

Hi can you make it so when you auto run, you continue to auto run when you gather an item? It would be helpful for foraging to not have to push ? And shift every time I pick something up. It’s hard on my carpal tunnel.

[hoary heron]

Hi everyone--I just want to remind folks that S6 themselves aren't collecting feedback on accessibility (or anything else) in this channel. If you want to send it directly to S6 you'll need to use https://palia.info/feedback.

That being said, Marcy is a kind member of the community who is gathering information and suggestions with a particular format: #♿│accessibility-discussions message

Yohannes also has a running bullet-point list of Accessibility Suggestions/Needs here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XbE_6wfJ6od6gQPZb6NQO2jkWsRLol8YpyU-sWo-znM/

And I have a document with Player-Found Adaptations/Workarounds that are helpful to them in playing the game as it is right now, and could be helpful to others: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wWfFBIaYLoGnNL0t3GOqanktEieB6D99swchDsFc6Pw/

[sly dew]

Hi again, Marcy! And again, thanks for devoting your time and energy to this, especially with all you have going on.

Fair warning, IDK how to be brief, so this may get wordy.

I have epilepsy, migraines, vision issues, PTSD from some violent experiences, arthritis, and several resulting symptoms of those conditions or medications I take for those conditions, which affect gameplay. The ones I run into problems with most often in Palia are:

• Photosensitivity, which can trigger seizures, migraines, severe nausea, and vertigo. In game (possibly only when you have a lower end computer, but IDK if my potato laptop is contributing to the issue or not), there's a huge problem with fishing at dawn and dusk. The way the lighting changes combine with the motion of the water ALWAYS creates a flashing effect that can reach to nearly strobe levels. This had already caused a migraine for me, but I'd figured out how long I could stand it without getting an ice pick to the brain. But in order to catch several of the available fish, players don't have a choice to not fish during these times. About two weeks ago, this caused me to have a seizure. I was fishing in the mine, FFS. And it was still so flashy that before I even realized it was dawn, I was coming to in the floor, with my partner kneeling next to me.

While seizures aren't totally uncommon for me, they're still incredibly dangerous. Each and every one carries a literal risk of death. Not to mention the various possible injuries, and even just the days long recovery process, during which I generally feel like I've been in a moderately bad vehicle crash.

So at the moment, I simply cannot fish at dawn or dusk. I generally avoid at least an (IG ) hour or two on either side, as well, bc it seems to vary by location.

I'm not super tech savvy, but my suggestions for this issue are 1) brightness sliders, 2) contrast sliders, and 3)a way to adjust, and/or disable entirely lighting effects on water.

[flint nexus]

Does anyone else hate the idea of having snowballs thrown at your character without consent? I know from similar experiences that it would be extremely unpleasant for me and just the possibility would stress me out. So I came back to this game 2 days ago and now apparently I'll have to stay away again 🤷

[sly dew]

From a business/legal standpoint, they must have a company death wish to have allowed this to go on this long. If I were more of a litigious person, or didn't care about the game, I could probably sue them for much more than any one of their individual salaries. I have no intention of doing so (at least, not at the moment), but I know I'm not the only photosensitive player, and this is the most dangerous aspect of the entire game, bar none. Them ignoring it for ~6 months is inexcusable, and really really foolish.

• Auditory processing disorder, which makes it very difficult for me to be able to do much of anything, once I've become overwhelmed by layered noises and various different unrelated sounds.

The place where I've most often run into this issue is cooking parties. In order to do whatever task I'm supposed to perform, I need to be able to hear the UI sounds clearly, without any other ongoing noises bombarding my ears. Otherwise, I get so overwhelmed with the cacophony that my brain simply shuts down and I freeze. The feeling is similar to a panic attack.

The worst noises are fireworks and bug bombs, but jumping near enough for it to be louder than the cooking UI, whacking anything with picks or axes, deploying gliders, using laughing emotes, and/or shooting the bow with or without ammo can all trigger the overwhelmed response in my brain.

At first, this was no issue. I was attending parties with considerate people who, whether they're aware of such things or not, took my request to heart and at least tried not to do anything that would trigger it.

After several instances of extremely nasty, direct, cruel ableism, I stopped going at all for a bit.

Then I started asking if I could have a station far away from the rest of the party, if it's a larger party. I don't like it as a solution. It's isolating and can sort of defeat the purpose of cooperative gameplay in some circumstances, but it was the only idea I had.

This encompasses two different issues.

1. Again, there's absolutely no reason not to allow players to adjust volume for different sets of audio. Muting music alone isn't enough. We need to be able to mute fireworks, noises generated by other players outside of those made by the UI with which they're interacting, footsteps, and as long as sernuk are getting stuck all over the place, animal noises, too. We need to be able to adjust volume of NPC dialogue, AND we need captions for all dialogue. A simple set of sliders would accomplish all of this, with little to no effect on players who aren't having these issues, and dramatically improve the playing experience for those who are.

2. The general approach of S6, in game and here on discord, to bigotry, bullying, and harassment, however seemingly subtle to those not targeted by it, is APPALLING. They need to hire, not only accessibility experts, but more broadly, diversity and inclusion experts. The fact that they have not done so, while marketing this as an inclusive safe space is, to put it bluntly, sickening.

They don't have to have encyclopedic knowledge of all axes of intersectionality, but they need to have someone on staff who IS trained to create policies that address them, and respond appropriately to violations of those policies when they happen.

So far, every official public response to this sort of thing has been bs placation and silencing of the people who've been harmed by the ignorance and bigotry. "Block them if they bother you," and, "can't we all just get along" type responses are lazy, ignorant, and counterproductive. They cause even more harm to the more vulnerable, while tacitly endorsing the harmful behaviors that caused the problems in the first place.

This can NOT continue.

The literal LEAST they could do is prioritize accessibility solutions, and create a more clear and concrete set of rules around bigotry and consequences for breaking them.

I'll be back in a bit with the rest, stuff to do IRL for a while.

I hope this isn't too much, and helps to give scope and perspective to anyone involved with development who can help to usher in the necessary changes.

[sharp magnet]

adding a +1 to @fleet sage 's suggestion of freeing up K and just allowing everything to be rebindable in general, for those of us who don't use QWERTY and/or don't use WASD hand position (I also use neither). Issues I've run into are:

• K opens Camera even if you have other things bound to K
• sliding puzzles use WASD regardless of your bindings
• as of 0.174.0 (before this, they used "interact"), crafting stations (except Repair Station) use F regardless of your "interact" binding

[radiant sun]

This. Especially in regard to the response to bigotry being horrendous. There have been instances in the past where someone said something bigoted and a mod, two messages below (where they would have easily seen the bigoted message) did one of those off-topic question things to move it along - the bigoted message had stayed up for hours before it was deleted after players complained within the discord feedback channel about it not being deleted despite obviously being seen.

That wasn't something that only happened once either. If you go through the history of the discord feedback channel you'll find many times when this has happened.

[fleet sage]

yes, the puzzles, that's so stupid!

[sharp magnet]

they also had mouse controls at least, so I just used those to get through. I get your frustration, but I do think I'd call it an oversight or something, rather than stupid, just to be kind to the developers

[sly dew]

Currently having lunch, and in most circumstances I don't pay attention to this sort of thing, but I'm really curious as to why you downvoted my last post, @sharp magnet

Not bc I want to cause issues, but if I've misspoken, or there's something you disagree with, I'd like to discuss and address it

[sharp magnet]

I agree with 1) but disagree with 2) and the overall tone of it just felt unnecessarily hostile to me. I read some of your other posts later and I am sorry you're having light/sound issues. I guess I don't really think that strict server or in-game player dialogue moderation/censorship, or all-bases-covered accessibility, are things entitlements that people should feel they can demand from a developer. Most of your suggestions are great and I do think they should implement them or something like them; I just don't like the insulting ("company death wish," "appalling," "BS" etc.) . I think it's all right for you to be angry and frustrated about the issues happening to you in the game, and I don't think I would have a problem with this as a vocal rant in the moment. But some of the hate and jabs should get filtered out before it makes it to the 'written feedback' stage.

I haven't seen them falling short personally but they definitely talked a big game about inclusivity or whatever, so if they're just blowing smoke with that it's fair to cry hypocrite I suppose. My take would be that they should promise less, rather than deliver more, though

[tribal barn]

I do have to agree about the overall tone, I think we need to give little bit of grace personally, but hold them accountable.

[sly dew]

I get that you don't like the tone. That's a personal thing. I haven't finished my answers yet, but there's no hate. Frustration, definitely. Anger, absolutely.

I have submitted several tickets about everything in those posts and the others I'll be making later. The responses have been, at best, placatory. I've been patient, and courteous, kind, respectful, and pleasant in tone. I stayed that way for at least two months, after the second instance. I stayed that way regardless of the helpfulness (or lack of) in the responses.

When the response to someone saying that a lack of very simple sliders is triggering nightmarish symptoms for a player is crickets...

When the response to someone having an extremely dangerous reaction to your product is no response at all...

When the response to someone reporting being stalked and bullied by an ableist player is basically 🤷‍♀️ in the official channels, then silencing when they speak out... how far should it be allowed to go before tone ceases to matter?

I think there are legitimate times and reasons to be upset. 🤷‍♀️

[fleet sage]

😭 I do understand they need a break, they deserve it... but accidentally press K for left AND being stuck on the menu with no immediate way to close it...

[sly dew]

As for specific things, the "company death wish" wasn't intended as an insult. I'm literally baffled by this even having gotten half as far as it has, and it seemed... unlikely that they have consulted people who would keep them from doing things that are so deeply risky, both for their player base and their company's survival, let alone the bottom line. Tone may not translate to text, but I'm simply stunned and confused, on that point.

"Appalling" was very deliberately chosen. Silencing and subtly threatening to take some sort of punitive action against players who've exhausted all other recourse (and as in my case and at least two others, are still being mistreated by bullies. Mine likes to follow me to cake parties.), and tried to stop the behavior of the bullies by simply calling attention to it in a forum, or asking that S6 do something, anything, about it, IS appalling. Other than synonyms, I can't think of a more appropriate word, but I'm open to suggestions.

I'm not sure where the "all bases covered" thing comes from, but these aren't all bases. I did mention forms of bigotry besides ableism bc I care about people who are being harmed by those things in game as well, and we all know it happens.

If they can (absurdly, imo) censor the words, "hate, socialize," and, "avalanche," in game, they can at least address racism, homophobia, transphobia, fatphobia, ableism, antisemitism, and misogyny. That's not unreasonable. Not when they literally marketed their game, from the very beginning, as "safe and inclusive." That goes a bit beyond hypocrisy, and verges on exploitation. They used vulnerable groups' concerns and need for a place where they aren't targeted to pull us all in, then what? Not a thing. The only consistent responses the people being harmed have received are the worst possible one in whichever situation, or nothing at all.

Tbc

I'm not talking about censoring, though. Not really. I'm talking with about being proactive, clear in their expectations and in the consequences for not meeting those expectations. Hate speech, discriminatory speech, bullying... none of those things should have a place in the game they claim they're creating.

If they want, as they say, to provide a safe, inclusive community, they can't sit on the fence about that stuff. When someone in charge does that, it's...

Not choosing between the bigots and their victims is making a choice, and it's unquestionably the wrong one.

When someone, or an organization, in a position of power refuses to take that stand against people harming others in their communities, it sends a message to both groups, as well as anyone who is in neither group, but may be watching, listening, reading, etc.

To the groups vulnerable to such treatment, it sends the message that they don't matter. That they're not the target audience/consumer/member, and that their experiences don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

[barren atlas]

The problem with a lot of it is that reporting is complicated. People making requests during parties and just being griefed

[sly dew]

To the groups who are doing the harmful things, it sends the message that harming others is acceptable behavior. That they don't have to worry about any consequences for doing so, and that their experiences matter more than the experiences of their targets.

[sly dew]

I get that. But building clearer expectations helps to address that possibility.

Look, people are going to have issues with one another in any community, of any size, with any focus. That's a given. Where there are humans, there will be conflict.

I'm not saying they have to eliminate all contentiousness, or referee every disagreement, or silence people who are arguing, even heatedly, just because there's some sort of clash. That is unreasonable, and unrealistic.

Back to the third group, though, bc this is the most important. The group that isn't on either side of the issue will see how the folks in charge respond, and they will behave accordingly. Which means a lot of things will or won't happen.

Those folks, if they are the type who will be harmful, if they think they can get away with it, will start to do so, or their existing bad behavior will worsen.

Those whomight speak up in defense of others who are being harmed, will become less likely to do so.

Those who haven't been harmed yet, but are in the future, will be less likely to report it or try to stop it or get help to stop it.

[true lantern]

Hey everyone! Will we be able to play palia on pc and switch with the same Account?

[barren atlas]

The malice is intentional but making changes to those rules would make them seem super draconic. Imagine if people used the function to report someone for throwing a single snowball at them

[sly dew]

We're all, S6 and the players together, creating a community. We have to come to a consensus about what that community will look like. What's acceptable. What's encouraged. What's celebrated. What's not welcome.

If you look at the three groups above, which do you think is most likely to see the most members just give up and quit playing? Which is most likely to bring in more people like them?

I still must not be explaining properly. Not every report requires action, but that distinction needs to be drawn. As clearly as it can be, given the vast range of possibilities, obviously.

In the situation you mentioned, if someone asked another player to stop, to leave them alone, and they continued, what do you think should happen?

[barren atlas]

S6 has already decided whats acceptable and frankly we arent a part of it. Theres also no way to make concensus on some subjects like how do you decide if its ok to, say, solo farm flow trees and palium without saying anything

[sly dew]

Those aren't discrimination and hate issues, though. That's just people being goofy. And that distinction isn't hard to make.

Nobody's saying that taking a palium node alone, or even a flow tree grove, should ever be grounds for any kind of official intervention. That's silly.

But these are not issues regarding play style or even selfishness.

They're about basic human decency and dignity. Either the community values those things, or they don't. Either S6 values those things, or they don't.

[barren atlas]

Whats the point of changing the rules about griefing if it wont be enforced? The problem is its not very cut and dry at all. Someone IS bothered by the snowballs, thats tangible, you can checl above. By all rights continuing when they say to stop is textbook harassment...

[sly dew]

And if they don't, then they deserve no respect, no courtesy, nothing but disdain, and much worse language than I've ever used on discord or in Palia.

[barren atlas]

However enforcing people to not throw snowballs in an mmo with a holiday snow event is insane lmfao. Same as how lights been turned on and off in my face when I say stop cant be enforced

[sly dew]

Griefing? I'm not familiar with this, I don't think. Or I'm confused by what you mean by it.

As for the snowballs, again you're missing the forest for the trees. Nobody cares about snowballs, out of context. But if someone asks you not to bother them, in whatever way, and you continue to do so, that's either harassment or bullying, and if that's not unacceptable, there is a problem.

[cyan flame]

This is not about people being griefers or going around smashing snowballs into other players' faces. What @sly dew is trying to point out is the seemingly and absolute lack from S6's part to acknowledge serious issues, like players deliberately bringing harm to other players (by stalking and/or harassing them, be it in game and/or over Discord). And also the apparent disregard for making the game as inclusive as they claim by seemingly and utterly ignore the demands of adding at least some actual accessibility tools.

[barren atlas]

They want to enforce these instances of more mundane ingame harassment as well, unless I misunderstood. As for accessibility features, im running a whole doc to get them all together but i dont think they actually care or the basics would be in already

[sly dew]

Again back to my point, then I'll stop for now. I'm feeling like even in this channel, it's not terribly worthwhile for me to even bother mentioning the remaining issues.

If the groups being harmed are ignored and silenced by the people in charge, they will leave. They will tell their similarly vulnerable friends and other communities not to join.

If the people doing the harm are tacitly allowed to continue with impunity, they will tell their friends, and other communities.

Before too long, this cozy, safe, inclusive game will only be safe for, or populated by, bullies, bigots, and those who are okay with their behavior.

It's not rocket science, and they're really dropping the ball.

[cyan flame]

Ahh, I see. Sounds like a misunderstanding, then. Happens.

[barren atlas]

We dont even have colorblind mode lmfao

Also if you reread their latest comment is that...not what they mean.

[sly dew]

Where did you see that? I'd like to read it. If they're conflating just being kind of a 🍆, in gameplay only, with actual harmful behavior, then that's just another part of the problem. It further demonstrates how little they care about our issues, if they can equate them with someone missing out on some palium.

[barren atlas]

What areyou referring to by saying bullies if not people beimg disruptive after being told to stop

[sly dew]

But that's just it. We should have color blind mode. And all the sliders and key binding options, etc that the people in this channel, the ones with real issues that deserve real attention, should have.

And this is exactly why my tone is what it is. This is effed up. Deeply and insultingly dehumanizing to anyone like us.

Bullies are people deliberately causing other people real, not gameplay, HARM.

I've said it over and over again. HARM.

Not whatever it is you're talking about.

[cyan flame]

Bullies = People being actually disruptive when being told to stop several times.
Like the one @sly dew used as example more than once: the guy who keeps on following them to parties just so they can be as disruptive as they can to Egwene alone (in this specific case: by making a lot of noise while being made aware on multiple occasions that Egwene requires almost a complete silence to perform their own cooking task).

That is a behaviour that can be reported, and the S6 support team should do something about upon receiving said report(s).

[flint nexus]

Just to clarify my issue with snowballs: it's not so much about player behaviour, but about how the whole thing is designed. I don't think it should be possible to use them on "an unsuspecting target" (S6's own encouragement!) without consent. And I don't think people coming to a "cozy" game should be expected to get attacked wherever they go, even by snowballs. It's not the same as switching lights on and off, it's about something hitting our character's body, and characters can feel pretty personal.
They could have used the Maji market area for snowball fights or whatever.

[barren atlas]

Ppl switching the lights on do it cuz theyre told the light is off cus it causes eye strain

My char isnt the one being hurt, I am lol

[cyan flame]

That is another example of a behaviour that can be reported and also taken seriously on S6's side.

[sly dew]

1- People who say things which discriminate against others on the basis of any protected class.

2-People who are threatening or harassing people in a way that has an actual real life effect. Not ... "Griefing?" (I'm still not sure what that is. Could someone explain?)

3-People who have been asked to stop doing a thing TO another person, and continued to do that thing. Not taking palium, not accidentally hitting them with snowballs, not being annoying, frustrating, or just kind of jerks. Actual, intentional, direct behavior that isn't about gameplay, and causes harm.

That's pretty much it, I think. Though I'm tired and may have missed something.

Just... don't be a d*ck, please? Like, this is extremely basic stuff.

Make those things clear, as we have here, and then effing DO IT.

[barren atlas]

But in a practical sense its very hard to tackle those behaviors from a mod side because the server logs are probably lacking. So the only evidence is making s compilation of you getting griefed, which can be tampered with. But also what about ppl who hate constant movement and ask ppl to stop. Staying in ine place makes me antsy, im constsntly spamming strafe. Like how do you prove malicious intent if someone doesnt state it in chat

[sly dew]

What is griefing??? PLEASE?

[flint nexus]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griefer
(not too familiar with the term myself)

[barren atlas]

Ppl engaging in behavior that affects other peoples enjoyment of the game

[sly dew]

That... doesn't seem possible in this game, unless you have editor perms on someone's plot. And if you destroy someone's plot, you should probably face consequences

[barren atlas]

The probñem is theres no catch all. I dont remember who im pelting with snowballs, maybe my constant twitching bugs people. Rules have to be super definable and those behaviors are hard to identify malice for

[sly dew]

The wiki definition, anyway, doesn't seem possible. There's no way to steal from someone anything that's theirs. It's not possible. There's not even winning.

[flint nexus]

I guess deliberately running over to an announced flow tree or palium node (though apparently that's less of an issue now) just to mine/chop it in front of everyone could be griefing
(like, not because someone doesn't have chat or doesn't feel social, but doing it on purpose to ruin other people's experience)

[barren atlas]

Thats what i mean by hard to define. Technically the snowballs, the strafing, the lights, sneaking peoples hunt creatures or resources before they can tag credit are all griefing

[sly dew]

Malice doesn't matter. We're all responsible for our own ACTIONS. Period. What you do, and the IMPACT, matters far more than the intent. The only intent that needs to be demonstrated is if you did harm, AFTER being informed it was harm/asked to stop, and only when it's a direct and actual harm to your IRL person, not to your game.

If I'm understanding griefing correctly, I dgaf about it at all. Not one. IDC if someone hits every palium node in the game right before someone else gets there. Not in this context. It's irrelevant. It's annoying and would probably piss me off, but it's not ACTUAL. HARM.

[barren atlas]

Enforcement requires 100% certainty of malice, which, if someone doesnt talk, is impossible for a GM to be sure of. This comes from my own experiences of working as a GM. Its a very annoying thing for staff too because yeah I acknowledge the snowballs and etc bug someone tangibly, but...

Griefing and bullying are the same category 😭 attributing malice to a behavior which if it isnt over text is insanelt hard to do

there's no way for them to feasibly enforce parts of what you are asking for

[sly dew]

No it doesn't. That's an absurd idea, all the way around. IDC if there's malice. Doesn't matter in the slightest.

Is there harm? (Actual, not griefing. I find that whiny and ridiculous.)

Was the person informed it was harmful, and/or asked to stop?

Did they keep doing it?

There's your grounds for enforcement.

[silk mountain]

For further context, griefing and trolling are pretty interchangeable terms afaik. Just for those who may be more familiar with the latter.

The things you've described as causing harm would fall under the term griefing as far as I understand it.

[barren atlas]

ok so you don't actually want what you asked for then. ioyly is irl affected by the snowball ganking, I'm irl affected by the flashbanging

stealing peoples nodes is something you can argue as severely anxiety inducing and thus going against accessibility of the game

[sly dew]

I'm sorry, but I think there's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's reductive and insulting to people actually being harmed to compare them to you losing some flow wood or whatever. This direction of conversation is both unproductive and pointless. It's nonsense.

IF. YOU. ASK. SOMEONE. TO. STOP. AND. THEY. DON'T. IT'S. HARM.

That's not griefing. And it's not ok.

[barren atlas]

i'm literally just telling you that enforcement of these issues is actually impossible because you have to define what harm is and that is a Whole Ordeal

is it physical harm? is it emotional harm? how is S6 sure that I'm actually even being physically harmed by the eye strain thing?

[sly dew]

You're nitpicking, and I feel being intentionally obtuse. Sorry, but unless you have something of substance to add in any other direction than this utter foolishness, I'm not going to engage with you. Apologies if that's a problem for you, but you're just trolling, and I don't have the spoons for trolls.

[barren atlas]

lol ok good luck on your campaign of everything is bannable because that's what it boils down to

[barren atlas]

Hiii this is a channel for players with disabilities to discuss changes we can propose, workarounds etc

[zealous shard]

Thank you so much for letting me know, I’ll move my question over then ❤️

[barren atlas]

No worries, dont forget that the devs no longer read disc for suggestions so be sure to put it in on the website

[sharp magnet]

even if we talk through further uses of the term "harm," you're still stretching it way beyond its limits in an attempt to acquire power over other people and to have an excuse to fly off the handle. If you need that much protection, it's a you problem. Polite social engagement cannot be enforced by a governing authority, it only works as a group effort

[barren atlas]

I understand where theyre coming from but the alternatives are too open to abuse and overmoderation. The only solution for a lot of these problems is opt in for certain things like snowball fights and premade groups with predefined rules so you dont wind up with other players that dont meet your needs or playstyle preferences

[swift oasis]

Simplest solution would be to have an opt in snowball fight area.

But I guess that would require foresight from the devs, something they clearly lack.

[alpine birch]

request error
error decoding response body: unexpected end of file
unexpected end of file

[fair willow]

If you're getting that error when trying to update/run the game, you should try https://discord.com/channels/809856101326913567/1135680775698792488

[alpine birch]

Thank you!

[sage folio]

hey, is translation an accessibility discussion for the game? I have a few question about the translation and how it was done, but don't know how/where to reach people about it

[hoary heron]

While accessibility is traditionally more towards disabilities and such, a lack of translation or poor translation can literally make the game inaccessible for folks so I'm not against considering it under the big umbrella. That being said--we don't have anyone in here who has worked on the translation for Palia; your best bet would probably be submitting a support ticket to hear from S6.

[sage folio]

oh ok, thank you :D

[thorny agate]

The new sprint animation is giving me motion sickness. Is there anyway to revert the sprint style to the old one?

[hoary heron]

Not at present within the game--I'd recommend submitting feedback.

I wonder if it was supposed to help motion sickness by making it less bouncy. Has anyone found it helpful? If so, I wonder if they could do a toggle for movement type instead of just reverting it for everyone?

[noble kelp]

Griefing isn't a catch-all term for bullying, trolling, stalking, etc. Griefing is just stealing or destroying someone's items and base. (I've played lots of games using this term for a couple decades, so I just wanna help make it clear).

I think we all have every right to be angry and use our angry language at a company that is causing its players to go through real physical pain and allowing people to play in situations that can have them potentially die in real life without even a proper warning before those situations. Because it is BS. They have had access to these complaints and accessibility requests for months and I bet many of those complaints and requests were there in Alpha from the very first playtesters. They given us like 3 bandaid fixes, none of which had toggles to opt in or out of for a quick fix that actually helps us instead of blanketing everyone in new problems.

We shouldn't be tone-policing if we want to unite our voices and have our complaints and requests taken seriously. In-fighting muddies up the channel and makes it harder to rally behind our own desires to change things, other people's desire to learn what we struggle with, and everyone's desire to stay here and keep fighting. No one wants to stay in a place that attacks them, and when we're being attacked by the game itself it's already turning disabled players away.

Truce? Let's be fight and be angry together instead of at each other

[chilly arch]

No, but it bothers me as well. I would love to have the old one back 🥹
I recommend submitting feedback as well, I did.
Here is the link if you need it.
https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7527359/Palia-Player-Feedback

[radiant sun]

Honestly the fact that fishing and cooking have been the most talked about inaccessible skills and they've continued to make bundles require them, with no alternative due to their refusal to add player-player trading, speaks for itself. They're actively blocking Disabled players from playing.

A lot of people don't realize it, but Disabled players have been fighting for accessibility at every turn and have very little to show for it. Every concern we've expressed has been present since closed beta, possible even before in the earlier testing of the game. We're angry because we have been ignored since Day 0 and that anger is continuing to grow because we're continuing to be ignored or essentially fed scraps to keep us "in line", so to speak, for the time being.

We like Palia. We wouldn't be here if we didn't, but for some of us that hope of being heard has turned into a crumb.

[spark talon]

my palia isnt working

[noble kelp]

wrong channel, go to #💻│tech-help

[cyan flame]

Let me use your example with the snowball fight to see if it'll make things clear. I'm also typing slowly cuz I'm on mobile ATM, and I'm not used to it.
So, you are in Kilima, minding your business. You're pelted by a random snowball outta nowhere. You turn to the player who did the thing and try to ask them in chat to please stop. You could have some sensory issue or that is just not a good day for you and don't want to be bothered, whatever the reason is, if you ask someone to stop, they should take the hint right away and stop. From here some different scenarios can develop.

[cyan flame]

Scenario 1: The other person, either after apologizing or not, actually stops and doesn't throw any more snowballs in your direction. There's still the possibility that your character may be pelted again at random, if you haven't moved away from the area, but at that point it's more a matter of accident(s). And maybe the other player might also realise that they hit you again when they didn't mean to & apologise again. In this case, all this is only a small accident, no need to be upset or scramble to the report ticket while blocking the single player.

[cyan flame]

Scenario 2: Starts in the same way as #1, but when you ask the other player to stop, they seem to ignore you and keep on hitting you with snowballs. You may still give them the benefit of doubt and assume that maybe they couldn't see your message cuz their chat isn't working, so you try to let your point across differently. You could try to emote (there's one that's literally named "NO") or simply leave the area. The other player still ignores you and also starts to follow you around, everywhere you may go, with the clear intent of keeping of pestering you specifically. This may go on until you're forced to change server.

[cyan flame]

However, changing servers doesn't really help; the player is on your same regional area and the two of you happen to be online roughly at the same time of the day, which means that the 2 of you are bound to be in the same server again soon enough. At that point, the moment the other player sees you in Kilima again, they come to you and start to target you again with snowballs. At that point you probably can't even try to message to ask them to stop because meanwhile you tried to block them, but that feature doesn't really help with avoiding blocked players in common servers like Kilima.

[cyan flame]

This situation may also go on for RL days; in the end you may start to feel your tolerance being drained, while you may also start to experience the first signs of anxiety caused by the possibility of stumbling across that specific person while you're in Kilima. It might get to the point where you check the list of online players as soon as you're in the server, just to see if that person is there too, and then force a server change if they are in the current one too.
Even so, it's impossible to avoid them forever; you may be already in a server, and they may join it some time later. And guess what's the first thing they do? Coming at you with their stack of snowballs.
The whole situation described in this 2nd scenario is when you have all the rights to choose "report a player" in the support webpage.
Not scenario #1, but scenario #2.

[cyan flame]

In conclusion: while you may have been experiencing "Scenario 1" cases (or perceiving them as such), @sly dew has been experiencing "Scenario 2" situations.

[eternal skiff]

Oh wow cool initiative on making this chat! I appreciate it as a disabled player.
Would it be possible to bring back attention onto the issue people have been having with the new running animation? It's a shame it's making people motionsick still, it would be nice if we were free to toggle between the old and new animation according to our preferences, in my opinion.

[eternal skiff]

I find it helpful personally, and I agree with you on the general sentiment, like i said in my previous message in the channel.

[sly dew]

That's absolutely it. Thank you.

[placid gale]

you should definitely be able to toggle an opt out of being hittable with snowballs if it's literally everywhere and not a separate area

[cyan flame]

This may sounds like a stretch, but if S6 wanted the snowball fights to be a village-wide thing (meaning that one could start them wherever they want while in Kilima), they could've made it as a separated server from the regular snowball-less ones, and given the players the choice of which of the two "Kilimas" they wanted to enter.
Or, to make it simpler and as someone else also suggested before me, they could've made the snowball fights enabled in the same area where the Maji Market took place a few months ago.

[placid gale]

I was gonna say that too actually but I worried it might be a stretch, but yeah I think it would be great if there was many people who didn't want to do snowball fights can be put in the same servers until the end of the event and then it can go back to normal again

[sly dew]

GNU Sir Terry. He got it.

[barren atlas]

I understand their logic perfectly, but making it so people have to remember you and your request in a game with a notoriously garbage chatbox otherwise they get punished is not something that ends well

Unless someone acknowledges that they've read the message in chat, there's no way for GMs to be sure they even saw it in the first place. This will probably get worse once the switch release drops. Harassment implies a degree of intentional malice and persistence of the thing over a long period of time, and the people enforcing the rules need to be absolutely certain of what they're doing. And the problem is it's very difficult to be certain of that.

The more common and probable scenario (#3) is that someone is going around the zone hitting everyone with snowballs in the zone, which may result in one person who doesn't want to engage being pelted with snowballs to get agitated. But is that person being intentionally malicious? Stretch that across several days. Like you said; Palia has a regional system, so how do you measure that a player knows + recognizes someone + their preference and keeps it in mind across several days? Is it reasonable to expect that of players in an MMO?

Is scenario 3 easily measurable and distinct from scenario 2? So, like I said, no way to make these things enforceable, otherwise it becomes a nightmare.

Opt-in, or designated snowball fight location are the only possible solution for that scenario. For others, there's no solution at all than to remove yourself from the situation. I get that it's frustrating, and I've suffered in similar scenarios of people flicking lights on in my face after I've said to stop but there's nothing GMs can actually do about it.

One of our most frequently requested accessibility features is the ability to adjust font and scale the interface because people can't read stuff x.x but we're not there yet. So some players like myself don't even have it on most of the time.

Wrongful suspensions would absolutely keep people away from the game.

[cyan flame]

Sounds like you missed the part in the hypothetical scenario where I wrote that the other player keeps doing the thing on purpose even when asked to stop in other ways different from using the chat, such as moving away from said player.
If the player doesn't stop but rather follows you around with the intent of keeping on doing that same action on you, that is harassment and is reportable.
One might not prove it with screenshots of a chat window, but can still be proven by recording a video (there's plenty of free video software and apps out there to do so) and then attach the video to the ticket, so that the support team can review everything and decide on how to proceed from there.
If with those information the person is banned, it's not because the one who reported just wrote "this guy did X and Y, pls ban" without giving a single, material proof.
It's because the one who reported wrote something like "this guy has been following me around for at least X days with this intent, as you may see from the attached X screenshot(s) and Y video(s)", the support reviewed the ticket and decided that yes, that was a case of malicious behaviour.

In case of a wrongful suspension, there's always the option to appeal. Which is in plain sight in the support webpage.

'Sides, "wrongful suspensions" happen in every single game. This one isn't special. 🤷‍♀️

[sly dew]

I provided screenshots of my stalker/bully doing many of the things I mentioned. Many with on screen time stamps and offers of witnesses.

It doesn't matter. They don't do anything.

I'm honestly sick to death of the defenders of the already defended, fighting so freaking hard to prevent HYPOTHETICAL, and minimal, harm to less vulnerable, more problematic people, while ACTUAL harm is happening to ACTUAL people who are already marginalized and suffering.

We need to stop engaging with that BS narrative completely. It's not being done in good faith. They're trying to exhaust us, trying to get us so frustrated that we stop trying to improve things for people who deserve to be given the simple kindness of human freaking decency.

I don't care if Billy Bob Bullybutt gets banned for the wrong thing. People who treat others with such callousness and disregard don't only do those things once, or to one person. They're doing it to many others, others who see things like this and keep silent bc they don't want to deal with even more unwarranted nastiness from people who just don't care about others at all.

If they're getting away with it once, they're doing it a dozen times. To different people who don't deserve it and just want to play in peace.

They can go eat some Colorado oysters raw.

[prime lichen]

Any tips for the temple of gales when you have a medical condition that causes extreme vertigo? I have occipital neuralgia & mixed migraines... and my brain can just not handle the whole flying over things so high up you can't see the ground. Literally started crying just on the 1st island. Don't even get me started on "The Tower" either. Played around with field of view, but that just makes it look distorted and doesn't really help much. This temple are the tower and distinctly uncozy for people like me. Vomiting while attempting to complete content is not fun. I can barely handle jumping off cliffs in Bahari Bay, but seem to cope a lot better with it since my brain can see the ground, for some reason.

[static wolf]

I unfortunately don't have any tips, just wanted to give a 🫂 . There are a lot of cool elements and improvements to the temple over the obstacle course for me, but at the same time certain core accessibility concerns that have been mentioned since day 1 of the obstacle course remain, and it's while it was annoying to have those on the optional obstacle course, it's incredibly disheartening (and honestly a bit insulting) to see its inaccessible elements repeated in a main line key story quest area. I also wanted to say thank you for sharing your perspective and I'll make sure to include the high flying aspect when I'm submitting feedback about the accessibility issues in the new temple

[prime lichen]

Thanks! I'll be making a report myself. I hate not being able to even complete optional things like the tower in game, let alone this. I've only played things like Sims 4, Stardew Valley, and Dinkum in the past so I've never run into being basically locked out of content like this. You're 100% on the money about it being disheartening.... I'm genuinely distressed because I'm a completionist who was already upset about not being able to participate in the tower, as well as by my attempts to actually do anything in this temple. So far I can't even figure out a way to get off the 1st island to another 1 without physical distress.

[cyan flame]

I don't have any condition-related issue with the new temple, but holy fudge it do be stress-inducing.
I'm personally putting this one on hold until I can see a full walkthrough in the wiki, then try again.

About your condition: I can't think of any workaround you could personally exploit in game.
The only suggestion I can think of is to wait for the walkthrough I mentioned and (if it were possible for you) ask someone else to complete that quest for you (could be a relative/partner or RL friend).
I mean them being able to be with you physically. This way you could try to guide them while checking the walkthrough from another PC/laptop or your phone, and they can try to progress through that hellish area.

[prime lichen]

Yea, I may have to watch spoilers so that I can see the easiest route to complete it.

Also sucks because I'm a streamer and this stupid temple is making me cry on stream (moreso part of the physical symptoms rather than an emotional response).

[cyan flame]

Aw!

[prime lichen]

I gave up and went back to my plot. Now trying to figure out the default field of view so it'll look normal again. haha.

[cyan flame]

I was thinking: would this happen also when you're gliding over some kind of flat surface (like the lake/ocean in Bahari), instead of the ground?

[prime lichen]

Yea, it's not great when it's over a flat surface... but at least I can see surface. lol I guess you could consider the clouds as surface when in the temples, but my monkey brain knows they are not surfaces.

[cyan flame]

In the end the new temple is a pain for several reasons, all in all.

The "half baked" factor is definitely there too.
Like this example... ||Which island is the game talking about? All I know for a fact is that it's two different ones, because I activated one and turned out I completed the progression quest with Caleri.||

[prime lichen]

Yea, the half-baked part is fustrating as well... my meds give me cognitive issues, so figure out what to do is also hard.

[cyan flame]

What are your graphics settings? Asking because I had to nerf the "texture" to the ground (read: it's on "low") and so far I blamed that visual glitch to that reason.

Well... Now I know it's not my graphics settings.
My GPU could handle a full "high", but it also runs at a constant 98-99% and I don't like that. So my settings are all a mix of high-medium with a couple "low" to try and be a bit gentler with that poor thing.

Eugh, same. 😩
I spent nearly 10 minutes catching flowbugs, but when I went back to talk to them, turned out they weren't the "evidences" required.
||I think the "evidences" are the lore bits scattered all over the place,, because those triggered a series of Q&A dialogues with both the twins.||

Yes, those!
I know the devs want players to use their heads while exploring a place, but also... Making instructions a wee bit clearer and not that degree of vague wouldn't hurt either. 🥲

i spent 20 minutes fishing with bait on because i thought such an "ancient" fish would need bait 😭
Didn't even know I was actually supposed to fish for the quest, until ||Caleri pointed out seeing things maybe due to hunger, and that line was intended as a clue. ||

[coral trout]

Was reading through several posts from the last couple of days, and I'm not going to try condone anything, but I do think it's important to keep in mind that Very often, people will have a connection issue, and They won't be able to see anything typed in the chat.
Just wanted to remind everyone that at times, this could be what's happening when you're being ignored completely in game

[sand berry]

I have slight arthritis in my hands and am trying my best to do the new Gales Temple. My fingers don't move too fast and for several hours I have been at the part where you have to leap from one floating rock platform to another, if you fall, you start all the way back to the beginning. My hands are in so much pain right now as I just can't time it quick enough to do it. Why would they put an obstacle course in a required main part of the game? This really shuts out players that have difficulties. There should be an alternative work around or at the least, not start us back to the beginning area so I can rest my hands in between attempts.

[prime lichen]

It starts you back at the beginning area?? Oh f.... Sucks that your hands hurt doing it. I have fibro hands and extra sticky fascia (especially in my dominant hand at this point), so I totally understand how you're having difficulties with the area. I couldn't get past the vertigo to even get to a part where my hands have trouble. It should be like the water, if anything, and put you back to the spot you came from right before, but yea, just like the tower in that you loose all progress if you fall.

And I completely agree with the sentiment of "why would the do this as a main part of the game?!". It's supposed to be cozy, not pain-inducing.

Oh, and I changed my feild of view to try to naviagte the temple with less vertigo (didn't really work)... and now that I'm back at my home plot none of the settings for field of view look like it did before I changed it in the temple. It's distorted no matter what now.

[stray linden]

hello, don't know if i'm in the right section: if not please advise - my real issue is that i have arthritis and pinched nerve that has been causing more problems with keyboard so i'm trying to use the controller - I can't figure out how to refill the watering can, and how to disarm a bow/belt once i target something, and use the hoe to remove an item from garden - with keyboard/mouse i use right click - on controller i have no idea - anyone here know? I haven't even tried selecting bait or arrow yet, as i assume it is also something that has to replace the mouse right click

and i agree that the new puzzle area is rough - i tried it yesterday and had so many problems i had to stop cuz the frustration was too much - i also have anxiety and depression and play games to de-stress and distract from my depression - the frustration is not good for me

[barren atlas]

Youre absolutely in the right place. Hopefully someone has an answer soon

[stray linden]

i can handle short bursts of challenge and i did enjoy part of it, but after a few minutes it causes fatigue and frustration

so until there is a guide for it i will just look about a bit but not seriously attempt to finish it

i have never been good at platformers or jumping puzzles tho i have tried a few, and i am a long time ESO player, but have been enjoyng Palia a lot lately cuz i wasn't feeling so defeated like i was in ESO (am able to do less and less of the game that i used to love because of aging and physical limitations over time), so i'm hoping that doesn't happen here for me in Palia

[stray linden]

ok, i figured it out! To replace mouse right click when the tool is active use "x" on the controller....

whew - that took ages, but i did figure it out... - hope that helps someone else

[maiden pilot]

So they made an obstacle jump and run and fly thing to a must do main storyline Part, yes?
Something they said would be and kept as an additional thing only ( game Maschine, tower content) with not meaningful rewards and not required to do because they know a lot of players don't like or don't want to do content like obstacle things..... Okay... Next of what they said to the players turns out as a lie.

I really wanted to give them a chance... I'm sad now.

[radiant sun]

After every complaint about the obstacle course being that it made you start from the beginning instead of offering checkpoints, like it looked like it was supposed to, they put another tedious thing that should have checkpoints but doesn't? And made it mandatory??

Wow...

That makes me wonder even more if feedback is actually being seen. How can you see your players telling you this isn't something they want and continue to do it?

[prime lichen]

I certainlly don't feel seen right now. I submitted feedback when the tower went live about it being impossible for people who have conditions that cause vertigo.

[silk mountain]

Sorry to backread a bit, but I wanted to bring more attention to this. I'm not impaired as much physically as others here who are having issues with various parts of the game, but where I do have a lot of trouble is working things out through the lens of whoever writes some of these quests.

It's something I've harped on S6 about for a long time, but some of the newer quests in beta have been even more egregious. The quest text in the game--both as clues from NPCs and text in the log--need vast improvement. If an NPC tells you a location or gives a hint, their dialogue needs to be in the journal in some form or fashion, and the information they provide needs to be accurate to where the objective actually is.

There have been several instances in the game where what was being asked and the actual objective weren't in alignment, to the point where I'd get so frustrated that I'd rage quit the game. It's one thing to encourage exploration and critical thinking, but that also absolutely ignores people like me with short-term memory issues, not to mention even just issues with the game like clicking too fast through dialogue or dialogue not showing up properly.

Sorry for the rant, it's just something that really grinds my gears and makes gameplay unnecessarily complicated for me.

[radiant sun]

^ This is something that happens sometimes within patch notes as well, albeit not as frequently. There definitely needs to be more QA when it comes to text surrounding the game for sure.

[prime lichen]

The instructions from the NPCs are so bad that I went back out into the main part of Bahari thinking I needed to find more of the nests like the one at Proudhorn Pass out in the world.

[sly dew]

Still can't access my account. Every ticket is answered with lots of words that don't actually convey anything at all. Sound and fury.

The multiple bugs that have hit my account and never been addressed are so bad, now, and the anti response to all the accessibility concerns is so blatant...

IDK. I feel sick about it.

I get that a lot of you are having much better experiences. I do. And I'm not here just bc I want to harsh your mellow. I don't.

I loved the idea for this from the first article I read about it, years ago. I was so excited to play a non competitive cozy game that was actually inclusive and aimed to create a safer community for everyone.

But this isn't that. It has never come close, and seems to keep getting further away. The response to that from both S6 and the player base makes it unlikely it ever will be. And that feels exploitative of all the marginalized people who flocked to this in hope and excitement.

This game will never live up to what it has the potential to be, unless those things change, and soon. Starting with the respect and transparency of responding to real issues with real answers.

The latest email in my long as hell chain that's been going for a month, now, regarding being unable to connect or travel consistently (and this is the 2nd time in this account I've had a bug report chain like this), was totally insulting. Just empty keyboard clatter full of cliche reassurance and no substance whatsoever.

I'm effing tired of them treating us like we weren't the ones they used to market this game, like we're unimportant and barely exist at all. I'm tired of hearing buzzwords when I'm literally begging for just a tiny bit of acknowledgement of how messed up things are.

I spent several paragraphs asking about accessibility and inclusivity. Not one point raised in the entire thing got a single word in the reply.

Nothing.

Why am I even still here? Why bother continuing to try to play a game where they're making it clear I'm not the intended audience, but was deceived into thinking I was?

I don't even want to try to log in to see if it's any better, at the moment. I want to throw things and light things on fire. But that doesn't work, either.

They literally do not give a damn about us. They're not going to change that.

It really sucks that they're the first to claim to try this amazing concept. Because they're killing it. Not just this game, but the chance at having another to become what this was supposed to be.

[static wolf]

So forgive me because I think you've figured it out later in chat, but yeah "x" for all of these tools. X generally replaces right click, except that "Y" used to be right click, and still is for some things (ex. In some menus Y is to move a stack over, and in some it's X because they seem to have forgotten to change it)

[sly dew]

Not to mention the twitch thing. Exclusive stuffies? Forcing people to get a twitch account to get them?

They swore during Maji Market they weren't going to do that sort of thing. Ever.

People can call this anger and dismiss it as irrational all they want, but is there ANY evidence, anywhere, that they're not just blatantly lying to us, pretty much constantly?

Because there's a ton that they are, and that pile just keeps getting bigger.

And I'm too freaking tired to really even BE angry anymore. Why bother?

They are liars. We were conned. Now they're just stringing us along in the hopes that we'll eventually get fed up and leave without causing a fuss and making anyone slightly uncomfortable.

And I'm seriously considering giving them exactly that.

Hell, even here, in the accessibility channel, expressing anger and frustration at the way we've been treated is consistently tone policed.

We're not wanted.

[quartz maple]

yeah. the inclusivity tag is just that. a tag to lure people in and they have yet to deliver anything substancal or even say a word that doesnt sound corporate and non caring. idk why they bother if theyre just gonna treat their disabled community and customers like this. telling people how s6 treats this side of the community will help keep others from joining and being disappointed or getting hurt

[barren atlas]

for folks with a photosensitivity problem like I have: try glasses that reduce blue light glare. i dug up some old gunnars I bought ages ago just to see and thank god for these lol

[quartz maple]

i have yet to see any kind of real proof that the company does care and is working on accessability options. even just a short wall of text or something would be good.

i already wear blue light filtering glasses (built into the lenses) and the light is still way too bright in game for me sometimes. my computers night light filter is a harsh orange so it just makes things worse

[barren atlas]

im playing a game rn which made everything snowy for xmas and im so blind i had to dig up sunglasses...lol

feel like i have an old soviet movie filter on my vision

[quartz maple]

im lucky i found a light filter app that kind of works... i need to find something better or figure out how to mess with my laptops screen brightness

[barren atlas]

what app is it? I wanna give it a try

[quartz maple]

its called colorveil. you can choose what color you want (some arent supported tho) depending on what works for your eyes and its free to download

[barren atlas]

weird, cant download it

[quartz maple]

oh. that is weird

[barren atlas]

https://www.east-tec.com/colorveil/download/windows/ right?

[quartz maple]

yes thats the one! dunno why it wont download for you unless you dont have windows but even then /shrug

[prime lichen]

Sounds like an interesting program. I currently use F.lux with my screens set as dark as they can go.... but I'm curious about choosing your colour.

[barren atlas]

im messing with careueyes now

[quartz maple]

i tried f.lux before some time before but the orange and blue just strained my eyes sadly

[prime lichen]

The orange has definitely helped me, but I am curious to see if anything works better for sure.

[flint nexus]

I feel this. The game they promised to make sounded SO good, I instantly signed up for the rest of alpha testing when I read about it. Finally a major game I could truly enjoy and be social in.
Now I feel tricked into getting invested, with all my (and others' that I know of) feedback ignored, while the game drifts further and further away from what they promised.

I'm hoping I can just be more detached from it and maybe visit my houses and gardens sometimes and stuff like that. I've given up hope that they are going to make the game more inclusive, but at least that means I don't feel bad about not spending any of my money in their cash shop (which I'd still do in an instant if they actually delivered what they promised) 🤷

[prime lichen]

Unfortunately it doesn't look like colorveil will work for me, but appreciate the share.

[dusty trout]

This is like how they said so many times that you don't have to hunt if you don't want to, so I've never hunted, and consequently I've never been able to do any of Hassian's quests and got locked in my progression with both Nai'o and Sifuu because they have friendship quests that require hunting. I wish they would be transparent about where they currently stand on some of this stuff so we can make informed decisions rather than hoping for follow through that isn't going to come

[sly dew]

It was a seriously effed up bait and switch. And it hurt. They took advantage not only of our vulnerability, but our hope for better things, and our faith and trust in them.

And now that they're sitting at the cool kids' table, they're acting like they don't know us or even see us standing right there.

[flint nexus]

Same here, the broken "choose your skills" promise is my single biggest issue

[quartz maple]

well when the switch and steam releases happen and the reviews start pouring in, things are going to be very messy and its going to either make them wake up or destroy this game to where they cant return

[barren atlas]

the game is not coming to steam, not sure how switch reviews are handled tho

[dusty trout]

People have been saying this at every stage so far and it hasn't happened yet, so I don't think it's going to happen now either. There will continue to be people complaining but there will also continue to be loads of people happily playing the game and that will outweigh the complaints

[barren atlas]

this is probably right, myes. we're a minority of the population afterall

[dusty trout]

I've been here since day 1 back in 2021, been playing since Alpha 2 -- everyone always says when xyz release happens, they will be forced to do something big! But that's not what ends up happening. The changes we get are incremental and there are some things that aren't even being discussed anymore

(And to be clear, I contribute to that in a lot of ways since I still happily play the game and recommend it to friends. I love Palia, I just want some follow through on promises made)

[quartz maple]

the disney like adults and optimist are going to somehow keep this game afloat when it gets to an unplayable state most likely.

[sly dew]

Toxic positivity at its finest

[prime lichen]

I found the patch notes where they said this.... can you believe it was just back when 0.170 came out in the September 2023 Dev Update?! Talk about a quick change on that one.

[maiden pilot]

This is how you can "beat them" using their own official wording and showing them the proof of what really got put into the game. Someone without a speach disorder please hold a mirror in font of their face to show them what they said they would do and what they really did do using their own in social media available statements by writing to their Support.
They cannot get away with this one because what they once said is openly visible and free to read for anyone who read and reads their official Company social media posts.
Hope I got that out in a way it makes sense. I typed it dorectly and did not write it down before.

[prime lichen]

Yea, I'm literally quoting it in a follow-up feedback report to them.
Here's the link to the update if anyone wants it for themselves: https://palia.com/news/dev-update-september-2023

[maiden pilot]

Thank you, really. Thank you for doing this.
This is official proof they say one thing but do another.

[silver warren]

I don't think that is. There was no promise made that no obstacle course would be made in the core game. They only talk about how a specific one that is very challenging to no have any special reward locked behind it. While, yes the Gales Temple has an obstacle course, it is in no way the same level of difficulty as the one provided by Zeke. Also the Fire Temple already has a small obstacle course in it.

[prime lichen]

The Temple of Gales is the Tower in different packaging.

It's in a void. It has areas where you are gliding in a void. You are up high and can kind of see there's stuff below you, but there is no gound. It's literally The Tower.

[prime lichen]

Plus the argument is that they said: "Because we don’t want people to feel like this is an experience they have to participate in, we have not put any unique rewards behind completing it that a cozy gamer would feel like they absolutely had to have. E.g. There is no unique plushie locked behind completing this activity. Completing the course is more about earning a sense of accomplishment and being able to show that off than any other reward." but then did exactly that. The temple of gales is a tower-like experience.
The argument was not that there would be no obstacle courses in the game whatsoever.

[maiden pilot]

@prime lichen yes, that's it. Thank you for understanding me, being my voice and saying it in a way I'm not able to. Just know you brought someone you have never met alot happy tears and the amazing feeling of being understand. You don't know how special this is for me, thank you.

[prime lichen]

Oh goodness, you touch my heart! I am glad I was able to be eloquent enough in the moment to help your view on the matter come across!! I know how terrible it can be finding the right words for things. I'm lucky in the fact that I still seem to be able to do a decent job of expressing my thoughts in writing.

Speaking of writing... I wrote a reddit post. Not sure about posting a link here because I don't know the rules about non-official palia links... but if you got to r/palia and look for "The Temple of Gales vs Disabled Palia Players" (turns out that title is kinda click-baity...)... that's me.

[prime lichen]

In my reddit post comments I came up with a possible solution that could be used for people who don't want to hunt! It would make it the hunting-only items accessible to you if done right.

[cyan flame]

Reading this made me realise an unsettling thing: S6 seems to be working towards making the game as least accessible as possible with each update.

Most notably with this latest patch:

• how several people, both with and without all sorts of conditions and issues, are struggling to explore the new temple;
• the new running animation causing players to experience motion sickness of varying intensity. Extra (negative) point if your character is wearing something like a long coat or skirt, since the devs decided it would've been a great(!) idea to tweak the physics of the clothing items, resulting in those items specifically go "weesh-woosh" in a more prominent + unnatural way than ever since the Halloween patch.
  Pair that with the swaying-like motion while running, and you may get one reason more for triggering motion sickness.

Not to mention the issues on the hardware side. The game is supposed to run also on lower-end computers, but the way things are in game, graphics-wise, lower end PCs actually struggle to run Palia.
My PC is more of a "middle-end" range; according to the game system I could run Palia with full "high" settings. I toned some of those down due to my GPU being constantly and almost entirely munched by the game alone, registering a constant usage of 98%-99%. Now the highest usage is somewhere around 80% with an average of 70%, but I can't stay in a server for long, especially Bahari and Temple of Gales, lest the game starts to stutter while RAM usage is the one skyrocketing to 96%-97%.
This wasn't happening before patch 0.175 (and all this should've probably been typed in #💻│tech-help or a similar channel rather than #♿│accessibility-discussions , but it's intended only as a continuation of my message above).

[prime lichen]

I wonder if they've even considered hiring some kind of disability advisor, considering the type of game they have marketed. It would be advantageous of them to aim for inclusivity awards.

[cyan flame]

I'm not gonna lie: today I'm feeling hesitant to even open Palia, given the issues it gave me last day (first time I even had to reboot my PC altogether, second -and last. time the game had a bit more mercy and ultimately crashed by itself. But the rest of my hardware didn't take the same blow as earlier so no need to reboot the PC again).

[cyan flame]

I have this (un)fun feeling they never considered to hire a single expert in this matter.

[prime lichen]

I somewhat expect the optimization to get better, because people with lower spec computers are more populous and they need that money. Disability accommodation tends to cost money.

[cyan flame]

Hope so, on the optimisation side, otherwise even those poor beans on Switch will be in for quite a surprise when they'll try to play the game.

And yeah. On S6's defense, they are taking some steps with the accessibility; like, they added the option for the controllers and the new cutscenes have subtitles (Idk if the subs have been added also retroactively, though).
But also: if on one hand they seem to have been slowly working towards implementing some accessibility tools, on the other hand they also seem to take a couple steps back with unnecessary tweaks + disabled-unfriendly quests.

[prime lichen]

1 step forward, 2 steps back. It's a tale as old as time.

Tragic, when usually all it takes to get 2 steps forward and 1 step back is a little thought and care.

[quartz maple]

why did they add an unessecary artifact effect in the new temple? they could of made the clouds 3d and had something else down there but no, lets add a stupid effect that hurts peoples eyes and heads! thats way better!! /sar

[dusty trout]

Oh cool, where can I find this? It's been a bummer to have gotten stuck with two characters I'd been progressing with just fine, I haven't gotten to do quests for either of them in literally months now.

[prime lichen]

I wasn't going to directly link to the reddit thread, as I wasn't sure about the "rules" for discord... but you know what, here it is anyway! Ctrl+F and searching for hunting will bring it up nice and quickly!
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/18ewr01/the_temple_of_gales_vs_disabled_palia_players/

[quartz maple]

I got frustrated enough to where I made a twitter thread and a accessibility specalist responded to direct me to file a complaint with the fcc with palia.

I suggest that we try and do that. Because they can get away with just doing the bare minimum, but they can't get away from legal consequences

[radiant silo]

What is your Twitter handle? I am curious to read along

[quartz maple]

my Twitter handle is XxRainyautumnxX

You can also find it from searching palia or looking at the hashtag and it will be in the popular category rn

I have a hard time learning new things so navigating on where to report and keep myself anonymous is... Challenging

[hoary heron]

Hey y'all--I'm sorry that I've not been able to engage much this weekend; my day-job put me in the negative on spoons and triggered a pain flare, and it's also my weekend with my kiddos so what energy I can muster is focused on them.

I'm hearing a lot of frustrations with the release of the new patch, as well as lingering frustrations that still have yet to be addressed. A bit of acknowledgement towards the steps they've started to take towards accessibility, but that it's hard to celebrate those when other new content released alongside it adds to the inaccessibility of the game. And the increasing struggle for our PCs to play the game is the icing on a frustrating cake. I've also seen some new suggestions on tools/tips that may help others play the game as it presently is (I'll add those to the Adaptations/Workarounds spreadsheet as soon as I can). I think that largely sums up the general feeling and discussion in here at present, albeit a bit oversimplified.

Just wanted to say that even when I'm quiet or have to step away for a few days, I still hear y'all, I feel your frustrations and empathize, and am doing what I can to advocate for us. i.e. my silence doesn't mean that I've abandoned y'all. ❤️ (Not that anyone said or implied that I had. But I'm reaching a point of neurodivergent over-clarification and if I don't stop writing now, my parentheticals and emdashes are going to get really out of hand 😅 )

[cyan flame]

What is a "FCC"?

[quartz maple]

federal communications commission! they help and provide services for disabled people to report inaccessable features in a few catagories. even games. im assuming tho because i have never heard of them til today

[cyan flame]

Over-explaining/clarifying sounds all too familiar to me.
(In my case is anxiety screaming "THEYLL GET THE WRONG IDEAS AND I DONT WANT THEM TO GET THE WRONG IDEAS AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"

[quartz maple]

game companies reported/complaint filed against could be forced to be up to speed/par with accessability options or face up to possibly a million dollar fine

[cyan flame]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-snap-dave-chappelle-saturday-night-live-oh-no-omg-gif-19226541

[quartz maple]

i would have already filed a complaint but i have no idea how to navigate their site 😔

its most likely a me thing tho. if anyone would like to file a complaint and et s6 to finally actually do something, even if forced beforethey face needing to legally pay up, please do so.

[cyan flame]

I can think of one person who seems perfectly capable of going for that. 😏
Someone who's already left quite a lot of lengthy messages right in this channel in regard of the lack of proper accessibility tools in this game.

[quartz maple]

absolutely! i hope they see these messages and so do others who want to take action instead of just waiting around.

[quartz maple]

i dont think i can make a reddit post cause the mods there will most likely delete it...

[barren atlas]

wish you were working for S6 lol

[cyan flame]

I tried searching for "CVAA breach" (mentioned in that reply to your tweet), and the first result in DuckDuckGo led straight to this page here: https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/request-dispute-assistance-access-communications

[flint nexus]

The FCC thing seems to apply to chat and UI elements only, but it's something for some of us I guess
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/new-games-must-comply-to-accessibility-guidelines-after-fcc-waivers-expire

[quartz maple]

its a small step forward at least

[prime lichen]

This is an accessibility feedback that I'm submitting right now. It's long, so hold on for 1 more msg in slowmode after this one... Used other in the choices for accessibility issue feedback:

*General Accessibility Issues
I couldn't pick just one item off of the list of accessibility because it touches all of them. There's a pretty extensive Reddit thread about the game that you should probably be aware of, and could likely learn a lot from.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/18ewr01/the_temple_of_gales_vs_disabled_palia_players/?sort=top
And what it all boils down to is this: Palia has fundamental accessibility problem. From the lack of colour blindness settings to unique items & main questline being locked behind temples that aren't disability friendly.

The Palia Code of Conduct (https://palia.com/code-of-conduct) has the players promise not to be ableist, but the game itself is not meeting that standard as an example.

"According to the World Health Organization, 15% of the world’s population (an estimated 1.1 billion people) identify as having some form of disability. This represents the world’s largest minority, and the only minority group that any of us can become a member of at any time." - https://easterseals.ca/en/disability-in-canada-facts-figures/

Are you willing to loose 15% of your current players, or 15% less of the people you could have playing this amazing game? Because that's what you may be staring down the barrel of.

Disabled people do buy premium items. When we spend a lot of time at home, we do our best to make the time we spend there as enjoyable as we can. I love Palia and have bought 3 outfits and a glider skin so far, and I wanted to buy more... but right now my progress in the main storyline is halted because of a lack of an accessibility option... so why would I buy more? *

con't in next msg....

*I sincerely beg of you to improve the accessibility options in Palia. Open a better dialogue with disabled players. There are very simple solutions that will make this game an even more beloved experience.

Thank you. *

End of feedback submission.

We should be flooding their feedback forums. Make more noise. We shouldn't have to do this, but if we want to be included in this game we may need to do this. Feel free to copy my feedback if you're not up to writing you own, but you should include your personal experience on one of the specific accessibility issues feedback choices in any capacity you feel you can.

[quartz maple]

s6 is based in california i think, but ill copy paste this and try to add in how ive been struggling a lot visually and memory wise

[prime lichen]

lol yea, I'm in Canada so the quote form the Canadian Easter Seals was way easier for me to find. If you want to find a US based link to substitute that one, go for it. If not, that's cool too. I just wanted to provide something that people can use as jumping point for a feedback submisison, even if that means copying it word for word because that's all they can do.

[unique junco]

Let's keep this channel kind, empathetic, and supportive of each other. No heated arguments or whatsoever please just friendly conversations.

https://tenor.com/view/chill-relax-crypto-self-care-calm-gif-26286424

[quartz maple]

uh ok i guess i missed something

its hard to stay fun in this channel when the game itself is so inaccessable

[sand bough]

So I've been following the discussions here in this channel because I also have issues with multiple aspects of the game. I left the game because the flash on tilling for gardening was migraine inducing and I simply couldn't get past it.. but not a day has gone by that I didn't 'want' to play palia. The sad reality is that not all games are going to be 'accessible'. This holds true across the board. ACNH is accessible (for me) as is SDV (and I'm anxiously awaiting 1.6). However, I can understand wanting the game to be accessible when it's not. I can understand wanting to provide feedback to the devs (in hopes that they will make it more accessible for all). I do think, though, that reporting the communication issue to the FCC is not only a waste of time, but also has the potential of foreseeable repercussions. A complaint to the FCC is likely to force S6 to enlarge the game chat.. and that's it.. but if they ARE forced to do that when they don't want to.. how much more content like the newest temple will they put out? I just think that it's better to choose your battles wisely if in fact change is what you want to see.. maybe even look into change.org and start a petition to get them to change things?

[quartz maple]

i dont think s6 will remotely care about a petition

[green kelp]

Do we need to get rowdy to get attention?

[quartz maple]

at this point, most likely. just sending in feedback and stuff hasnt done a thing so far. either we send in the feedback template above as a whole or a petition

[prime lichen]

lol Being disabled is rarely fun and stress-free.

[sand bough]

Maybe. Maybe not.. from my perspective these are youngsters and they just might relate better to a petition than threats from the FCC (not to say they wouldn't comply, just questioning where it might lead to)

[green kelp]

The founders aren't youngsters and I couldn't care less how they relate to anything.

[hoary heron]

Yeah, I get that the intent was to try and lift things after tidying up, but "fun and stress-free" is a bit hard for us to accomplish in this channel to discuss our struggles with the lack of accessibility in Palia--"kind, empathetic, and supportive of each other" is a bit more manageable. ❤️

[sand bough]

and that anger should be channeled.. into something positive.. you want to be heard and they aren't currently hearing you, yes? Then you necessarily need to try another method of communication in order to be heard

[unique junco]

I edited my post earlier. Thank you!

[sand bough]

simply trying to offer my own pov. I see that won't work so have a nice timezone

[unique junco]

Just a reminder - In discussion of game features, we respect healthy debate, but will not tolerate argumentative discourse in which members attack each other for their opinions or gameplay preferences. Discuss the idea, not each other.

[quartz maple]

hard to healthily debate when you get shut down by ableist or the like. but im off to play a different game now

[old vector]

they've said quite often that they're successful devs from other companies who moved here, i dont think they're youngsters at all

[quartz maple]

at this point it has to be a lie honestly. if your from WoW or riot, those games have some decent accessability options already (at least wow does. i am not sure about riot cause i dont play it)

[sand bough]

perhaps we define 'youngsters' differently then.. pretty much everyone is a 'youngster' when you reach my age.. and it's my understanding that they are 'ex' employees of other games companies.. not 'former' (I personally find a distinction between the two)

[old vector]

i also do want to add, n ive said this a lot, palia has said over and over again they want to be inclusive. inclusivity does not exist without accessibility, it's simply not a thing.

[green kelp]

Hilarious. Getting warned for being told by a player how I should react to S6 dumping on accessibility. This Discord is truly amazing.

[old vector]

it's my understanding that they are former employees, not ex, considering they've touted proudly that they're former employees of these companies

[spiral eagle]

I think what's being missed here is that this topic is a very sensitive one for disabled players (like myself), and we're used to having a certain level of accessibility from games whether they're indie or larger publishers. Basic features like text size changes, colorblind mode, adjustments to controls/sensitivity, etc that Palia just does not have, despite being a game that advertises itself as inclusive and accessible.

People are getting upset because they aren't being taken seriously, then being told by others to basically be quiet or go somewhere else, at which point a mod will step in and admonish... The disabled person, which just feels like a lot of what we experience irl when we bring up accessibility issues, and it's exhausting.

[green kelp]

You get what you pay for. The moderation has always been arbitrary.

[spiral eagle]

S6 doesn't get to claim they don't have the team or resources for accessibility. They absolutely do, and as professionals in the industry, they have even less of an excuse. A lot of us are older, tired, in pain, and we'd just like to play a game that doesn't bait and switch us about caring about accessibility for once.

[quartz maple]

and theyve been around for 5 (going on 6 when december ends) years by now. they have NO excuses or anything espeically with some of them being from freaking WoW and Riot. they have no excuses, no fallbacks, theyre just lying and strining people along

[sand bough]

Ofc they are capable of it.. but clearly they either don't currently see a need for it, or they are hoping we all go away.. but the saddest part of all of this.. in all of this.. is, from my own personal perspective, there's a double standard going on here... people wanting inclusivity, but not wanting to hear another disabled players' perspective on things.. how can one expect S6 is going to listen, when nobody (bar none) is willing to listen?

[prime lichen]

And whether or not they are working on the accessibility issues, they need better transparency of the accessability options they are planning to do or they need to say they will not be implementing them. In the meantime, the game needs a splashscreen warning that gameplay elements may cause vertigo, migraine, and/or seizure.

[sand bough]

you are absolutely right

[prime lichen]

And that's not only for us so we can decide if it's worth the risk to play as-is, but also to protect S6 from liability as well....

[spiral eagle]

I agree. I think they've been having such a hard time keeping the servers up and working, they don't have time for much else... Honestly the switch announcement really threw me! Didn't think it would happen! But having it on console is another can of worms for accessibility too...

[prime lichen]

Yea, I can definitely see that pushing back accessibility options... and I think it's a valid reason to push them back because they can't make money to keep the game going if no one can play at all. But it's not a reason to not address what their accessibility plans are at this point... and if there are none, they need to stop advertising it as an accessible/inclusive game because that's false advertising.

17.4 thousand people at this point have at least looked at my post on Reddit, and there are currently 114 comments... It's not the most upvoted thing ever (I blame the word disabled in the title), but I am glad that that many people have at least taken a glance. And even though not everyone engages, many read and lurk and form opinions regardless. So... that at least feels like I've made a little noise.

[elder veldt]

WELL I finally found some time to do this at ....... 2:00 am on a Monday before work but here we go.

Please let me know your feedback on this letter, either here or in DMs. I'll make live edits for a week or so. Otherwise, go ahead and send it out whenever you'd like - it's not the first and won't be the last of its kind and repetition is good, anyway.

For those who don't know, I wanted to take the existing, pressing accessibility concerns and use my (limited) experience in disability advocacy to write a feedback submission to send to Palia's official channels.

The following document has instructions on how you can do so yourself, and a pre-written letter to submit if you're inclined:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16yAymqMVly2gVJY6QtEi2gYi6JSOD6h5sB6eT39kWLU/edit?usp=sharing

Thank you to @radiant sun @cyan flame @maiden pilot @devout echo @hoary heron @static wolf @sly dew @barren atlas @fleet sage specifically for speaking about their experiences directly. Thank you to this entire channel for maintaining a good spirit despite, like most things in our lives, this being an uphill activity.

[flint nexus]

So did I miss any context here in the last couple of hours with the repeated cutesy admonishments by a mod? Messages that were deleted?

[maiden pilot]

@elder veldt I read all, liked all. The entire letter is good in my opinion.You understand me and the cooking timer issue perfectly. Thank you so much for being my voice. 🙂

[barren atlas]

I think they replied late in here to a report probably or something else and they just don't ever send their messages as replies, so

[hoary heron]

That is beautifully written, and is an excellent companion to the bulleted lists of needs we've shared with them as well.

[barren atlas]

More than anything I think they just, need a list of things we need added. Then they can debate how important or feasible it is to cater to different needs/requests.

[static wolf]

Maybe, Melodic, if you have the chance, would you be able to ask if our feedback is more likely to be seen/heard/implemented in list form vs. Submitting each item on the list as its own form? Because I'm all for continuing to spam (I'm not actually spamming!! Like once per 2 weeks with modifications) my list at them, or I have the time for the next month to send each item as its own form, so I want to do whichever is most effective for them

[barren atlas]

I compiled a list of requests here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XbE_6wfJ6od6gQPZb6NQO2jkWsRLol8YpyU-sWo-znM/edit?usp=sharing

And basically copy pasted it

Usually what happens is whatever software/website/etc they use for aggregating feedback just breaks things down to most commonly mentioned key words and such because it's easier to parse a tldr than to read every single feedback message

Even if a human does read every single piece of feedback, they'd have to summarize things anyway, so the list cuts out the need for it by summarizing in the first place. That way they might be able to just mention it wholesale in a meeting and show it to the devs, go over the dif ones to figure out what's possible and what's in highest demand

Looking at Alchemer's website right now and it seems that it spits out a report summarizing answers: https://help.alchemer.com/help/standard-report

[hoary heron]

I think both approaches have value--Yohannes' list and my current adaptations sheet have both been bubbled up to S6, and I'll do the same with Marcy's write-up as well. You also raise a good point, Admiralsky--I'll check and see if doing individualized in lieu of bulk is more helpful for data tracking from the forms.

I think the most important thing is our continued effort to share feedback with them and continue communicating about our struggles--helps make/keep these issues top-of-mind.

[candid surge]

beautiful letter, completely agree with it all.

[barren atlas]

I don't think it really matters how the feedback is transmitted exactly just that the key words are there. The report for the accessibility suggestion will spit out the most frequent responses so like, 'ui scaling' and 'better keymapping'

[sly dew]

@lo yly5969 you are a ROCK STAR.

[sly dew]

Unless we find some consequences that they CANNOT ignore. For any reason at all, short of behaving equally unethically, ourselves.

This is starting to reach critical mass, I think, and at EXACTLY the perfect time. It's the holidays. They're not going to give us the response we're urging before the new year. They're shorter on staffing than even they normally claim to be. And several of us have started finding various methods to make it very difficult for them to continue to ignore, silence, and placate us with BS.

It's happening on literally every social media platform where I've joined their community.

It's happening with crowd sourced letters.

It's happening with government agencies and legal justification.

It's happening on a larger and still expanding scale.

This is the best chance we've had to have an impact that can only be one of two things, depending on their response: effective at getting them to pull their heads out of their butts and ACKNOWLEDGE us, and start addressing our concerns in a real and meaningful way immediately, or...

Catastrophic public opinion meltdown.

We cannot let up. We need to be tagging in and out as necessary for self care, but also trying to keep this critical mass at the highest possible intensity in every available public space we can find.

This feels like the beginning of something that could be magical. I'm proud of you. Of us. Kick all the awkwardly swaying paliabooty.

You're all freaking badasses.

[north mesa]

"Unless we die suddenly, we are all disabled eventually."
— Susan Wendell. (1989). Toward a Feminist Theory of Disability. Hypatia Vol. 4, No. 2, Feminist Ethics & Medicine.
This is one we need everyone constantly reminded of, the whole tangle of healthy and ability as part of morality makes people think it can never happen to them. Could also use the addendum that we all start off as disabled as well

[prime lichen]

Thanks for making this list. Could you possibly add the ability to skip platforming mini-games (The Temple of Gales is the big example right now) by providing an alternative questline or an option to skip to the next area (ie: the islands in the Temple of Gales)?

[north mesa]

Since s6 made the same old mistake as nearly every dev ever has (seriously people need to make new mistakes) of not having accessibility tooling built in to the design and every bit of code from the outset, adding it is going to be long, slow, expensive, and frustrating - players are only going to get angrier at the game even if s6 is working on accessibility diligently because we won't see the fruits of that labor for quite a while. A dedicated section of their dev update to spotlight accessibility work or a quarterly update on it would have to happen as well to quell things.

Leadership has to care and it has to be part of both their sop for specs and their minimum viable product standards or devs won't have the time or safety to include it. Telling a dev team "hey your new feature doesn't respect this setting so we've had reports of migraines and seizures" when they aren't allowed to fix it is not a fun experience.

[north mesa]

100% this - someone(CS or CM most likely) is distilling it down into categories and specific changes so that the PMs or higher leadership can pick and choose what to focus on, so format and edit appropriately -- Gotta make it so the bleary eyed non dev reading their 100th bit of game feedback that day can pick out the important bits.

[sly dew]

Here is a link to the Twitter thread posted by the incredible @quartz maple , unrolled and available to link and be read by anyone who feels kind of crappy about staying on or posting on Twitter.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1733824812982665579.html

[silk mountain]

Wanted to just add my voice to the mix and maybe vent a little?/share a few thoughts.

It really bothers me being told I'm acting entitled about accessibility when the game is being marketed as this cozy, inclusive space. We're not complaining about a Souls game here; this entire game is built on the expectation--set by S6 themselves--that this game will be more approachable than most.

So for all the people saying "Well, they can't accommodate every disability ever," 1) that's a disingenuous argument; of course we know that's not possible. But 2) the reason this community is so upset is because, largely, this demographic is the one that's been targeted and marketed towards, so when it's baseline inaccessible for a large portion of the people they claimed this game is for, it's already kind of "wtf." But then tack on the fact that we have provided labor over and over again to clearly explain what the issues are and how they could be fixed, only to be sequestered to a corner of the discord (after our space being eliminated entirely), it's, frankly, not a good look.

This isn't about accessibility in gaming as a whole, this isn't about making sure everyone has a perfect player experience every time, this is about basic features that even those more hardcore type games often have that are missing in a game directly marketed at marginalized gamers.

And before anyone talks about how there's only so much they can focus on at a time, yes, that's true. In which case, there needs to be more transparency about all of that, not just whether or not we've been entirely forgotten.

[static wolf]

Yeah, and I got a month free of gamepass, which means I have the opportunity to play a lot more games than I've ever played before, and it's clear to me that almost every single game does it better, even though they're not advertising to accessibility and many have much smaller teams.

One thing that annoys me is when people say that accessibility options are "easy modes" and we should get good, when a) a lot of accessibility features have nothing to do with how easy/hard the game is and b) this is supposed to be a "cosy" and cooperative game, not a competitive one, so even accommodations that seem like "easy mode" for people who don't need them (ex. A setting to turn off cooking timers) shouldn't matter, me being able to win/have fun/access parts of the game doesn't cost others anything. I just got done with Unpacking (very fun), and one of their accessibility settings is that you can turn off "wrong answers". A game that's whole premise is a puzzle of where things are supposed to go, and to make it more accessible, they let you tell them that your answer is correct, even if they didn't program it as such. And I think that's a good philosophy- accessibility should mean you can "play the way you want to play" even if that's not how the devs ideally intend it. Unpacking fulfills that better than Palia and they don't even use it in their advertising

[cyan flame]

Not related to accessibility, I remember S6 already got this close -> 👌 to be in some serious troubles once, all because someone pointed out some sketchy thing with the way items were priced in the premium store?
That's all I remember, the details are lost to me atm.

[quartz maple]

and they were forced to change it but theyre back at it again so they can get into some legal trouble once again, esp with the odd discount that isnt a discount at all

[static wolf]

Wait did they put those slashes back 👀

[quartz maple]

yep with the newest "bundle" its marked as 77.777 or something percent off when i last looked. im pretty sure you cant mark a product like that cause it isnt accurate and misleading, esp since it just cost the same amount as the cheapest outfit bundles

[static wolf]

Wtf yeah they had to change that last time I can't believe (well, can believe) they did it again

[quartz maple]

s6 on its way to get into legal trouble: 🏃

[sly dew]

There's an AMAZING discussion happening on reddit rn around a specific solution, narrative driven, to the Temple of the Gales accessibility issues.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/18ewr01/the_temple_of_gales_vs_disabled_palia_players/kcqxl2r?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2

[static wolf]

Because I remember the first problem back at the start of open beta was that their first outfit costs more, and the next two cost less. I refuse to visit the cash shop until they give at least one free pet, so idk the exact prices and will make them up. The first one would be like 1100 palia coins, then the next two would both be 500 (for a total of 2100). And they had 3300 slashed out on the bundle display with 2100 next to it, even though you could never pay 3300. Which is incredibly illegal, so if they're doing it again then that's wild.

To relate back to accessibility, in that example, making a big legal fuss changed things (at least for a bit), so it would make sense that legal pressure would make them respond to accessibility things

[prime lichen]

That's my post! ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

[cyan flame]

https://tenor.com/view/espresso-classy-pinkies-up-sips-tea-sipping-gif-9736549963337717913

[quartz maple]

s6 keeps making a bigger and bigger hole for themselves and they dont have the popularity of Blizzard and other big companies to back them up, let alone billions of dollars in funds to hand wave the legal stuff away 😂

[radiant sun]

It's even more frustrating knowing that with every update they add to the games inaccessibility, making the future of having an accessible Palia even more bleak and hopeless.

The excuse is that it takes time to make the game accessible, but every update adds to that time because they don't ensure new content has an accessible foundation.

I fully expect that at some point they'll prolong adding accessibility so far that by that point they'll use the excuse of the game having too much content to bother making it accessible and non-Disabled players will believe it, and continue to call us entitled or tell us we're unrealistic.

We've already seen it happening with people coming into this channel to troll or say things.

Also honestly? I think they conflate accessibility with availability; and while the two have similarities, they are not the same

[sly dew]

This was about predatory cash shops.

When they first implemented the cash shop - and given industry practices and already existing controversies around this issue in every game dev network, THEY DID IT INTENTIONALLY AND KNOWINGLY - they gave it a predatory pricing scheme. You had to buy the Palia coins in bundles. While I don't remember the exact numbers, I can give a general example.

The coins were only available in specific quantities. Like 400/800/2500 bundles.

The individual outfits and outfit bundles were all priced in such a way that it was impossible to buy exactly the number of coins needed to buy either an individual outfit OR a bundle, without having a substantial number of leftover coins.

The intent is to make you feel like that leftover currency is wasted money... unless you buy more to make up enough money to get another/several other outfits/bundles.

It's designed to be hard to recognize unless you already understand the scheme, and to prey on the sunk cost feelings people get when they've already invested in the stuff.

[willow glade]

You still have to buy coins like that. - 425, 850, 1700 or 2500 I believe.

[north mesa]

A really big point in the accessibility discussion that I can't believe leadership/investors don't get is that some accessibility features also help with globalization/localization with a bonus of increasing adoption in all markets via curb cut effect - make it easier to translate via captioning & alt text (which also means you can play with it muted like if your kid will only sleep on you or you're in a library), make it smaller/lighter so that people can play regardless of what they pay for internet access or how old their region's infrastructure is, more control over brightness & contrast means playing in more environments

[sly dew]

Yes it absolutely is! And YOU are a freaking rockstar, too! Out here killing it like

[radiant sun]

I agree with everything, however I don't think the internet thing is something they can really do. They can, however, make servers for more regions which would lessen the strain on internet connections - but they can't make someone's internet offer more than what they pay for, if that makes sense?

[sly dew]

Yes, but now those numbers align with the actual prices of the available merch.

[hoary heron]

So that one actually is a true discount. It's a bundle of 5 items (4 of which are normally 850 coins each, and 1 that is normally 425 coins), all for 850 total.

But refocusing back on Accessibility--this is a useful resource that I'm including in my feedback: https://accessible.games/accessible-player-experiences/access-patterns/personal-interface/

[sick island]

It’s truly disappointing when I see a game that I’ve enjoyed so much have such bad accessibility features… I know I could enjoy it so much more if they did have these features, but instead they’re focused on other aspects which keeps adding new layers to the accessibility issues 😔
I personally would love subtitles because it’s very hard for me to hear certain audio cues in Bahari especially, but I don’t know if they’ll ever add those.

[elder veldt]

@maiden pilot @hoary heron @candid surge @sly dew

I'm both honoured and humbled to have the privilege of being given the opportunity to write something that spoke to your (and our) experiences. Anything at all I can do to help.

@north mesa It makes me teary-eyed to see that quote speak so clearly to someone else. Susan Wendell was right almost half a century ago. "Unless we die suddenly, we are all disabled eventually." It really turns the existing discussion of disability upside-down. We're not a minority of human beings. We are the end state of humanity.

We're getting lots of feedback through DMs and other channels on proposed edits, additions, omissions, etc. to the letter! So if you missed out, here's the link https://docs.google.com/document/d/16yAymqMVly2gVJY6QtEi2gYi6JSOD6h5sB6eT39kWLU/edit?usp=sharing

Feel free to share with your friends, family, communities, and so on! The more feedback, the more we capture everyone's voices, the better

[north mesa]

😅 can you tell i spent 3 years yelling about this with disabled coworkers and the community team while having exactly zero influence at a previous job? slow small changes that snowball into big increases in MAU aren't sexy like totally new features though

[spiral eagle]

We're going to have to fight for this the same way we've had to fight for accessibility standards in ALL games (which you'd think would have carried over here, considering how many industry professionals are working on it!): tooth and nail, kicking and screaming, and with our absence of money spent.

With the Switch release, a lot more eyes will be on the game and on the lack of accessibility. A lot of disabled people play via Switch because they find controllers easier to use than mouse and keyboard! This will put even more pressure on S6.

[elder veldt]

Taking a brief detour from Palia-specific accessibility discussion, I (we) wanted to thank everyone here for, everything.

For those who don't know, we're first year Master's students of Critical Disability Studies at York University. I (me specifically) have ADHD and my attention and focus is constantly everywhere and nowhere, so it can be easy to get lost and caught up in things and feel like I have no direction or any purpose in life. This community, and the people I've met through Palia, has changed that. Like. I think I know what my calling in life is now. That level of self-actualization.

I feel so connected, alive, and human with the conversations we have here, out of here, and everywhere. Y'all have opened up your hearts, your lives, your stories to us and made us realize we're not alone. Moreover, we see now that we have an intrinsic relationship with disability and this is more than just our usual advocacy work, this is going to be our life's work. Digital, transformative disability justice.

Was just reflecting on this as we ride our high to complete final papers (these highs are becoming more frequent now thanks to everyone here), and wanted to share! So happy we get to coexist at the same time as you all.

Thank you all for that

[prime lichen]

I just thought of another thing we can be doing to flood them with needing to pay attention to their lack of disability accessibility.... every time they psot something (ie: on YouTube or Facebook) make a comment saying there aren't accessibility options. I just did that on their YT community post regarding the Twitch drops, saying: "That's great... but can we have disability accessibility options for this game that you promote as being inclusive? There's not even a splash screen warning people that gameplay elements may cause vertigo, migraine, and/or seizure. There's no colourblind options, there's not UI scaling options, there's no option to skip the platforming mini-game in the temples (and if you can not complete them you end up locked out of the main storyline!), and the list goes on."

[quartz maple]

Yeah. Flooding those places wouod defo reach ppl who arent in the discord

[prime lichen]

Yep, that's the plan. Harder to ignore when there's lots of noise pointing out the issues. I just copy & pasted that comment to every one of their facebook posts they made in the last 3 days too this month too.

[prime lichen]

Could something be added regarding the platforming mini-games in the Temples that if you can't complete you are locked out of the main storyline? The Temple of Gales is exceptionally egregious when it comes to people reporting that it causes a lot of disability issues (hand pain, vertigo, and even seizure) and if you can't complete them you get locked out of the main plotline. There needs to be an alternative quest line to complete to skip the platform parts so you can move to the puzzles / areas to find items to turn in... or just a skip button that gets you past the platforming.

Also, the game in it's current state requires a spalsh screen warning that some game elements can cause things like vertigo, migraine, and seizure.. it would give players a heads up as well as protect S6.

[warm grove]

They show the splash screen when you first load the game/create an account. But then nothing afterwards. So it's very easy to be forgotten about-- when it's something that should be shown and appear each time. Not just when you make an account.

I'm also glad I have scrolled through here and read on things in regards to the new content they added. I took a huge break, due to having issues in regards to accessibility, along with how the devs have been treating a lot of their playerbase.

It's really unfortunate that still seems to be the case, and that things just doesn't seem to be getting better or improving.

[candid surge]

thank you all for working so hard trying to get this game to be more accessible. i wish i could be more involved but honestly i get so extremely emotional about it, it's difficult to discuss without letting out my strong feels. >.< i will try to do my part to send feedback. i originally didn't realize they were missing so many accessibility features.

i would love text subtitles for spoken words from npcs. i always need to be able to bind my keys, and i was able to do that originally but since the last update, it forces me to use F key to use crafters. which is kinda the worst and really affecting my game, i thought when they did the second winter update they would fix it but it's not fixed? even tho i keep rebinding the interact key to one of my mouse buttons, it works for some stuff but not crafters... driving me crazy

[elder veldt]

Just added this, what do you think?

*Edit: Changed "are content-locked" to "is content-locked". *

Also added mention of the vertigo, migraine, seizure splashscreen warning to the quickfire list!

[north mesa]

the quickest win/good faith action would be the splashscreen warning probably followed by running animation toggle and captions - if we prioritize on hours of work and making s6 look better as quickly as possible rather than prioritizing actual game play impact

[prime lichen]

That's great! Thanks much for including this in the message. 🙂

[north mesa]

i wonder if there's a half measure/middle ground on the platforming (as a step towards making them more accessible/circumventable rather than as an alternative to that) and hunting of having an easier mode where everything has bigger boxes - though they'd need to sort out the elevation and hit box bugs that exist too - it could benefit more skill levels as well as disabilities. Difficulty settings are more and more common on video games (a streamer I watch goes through those settings on every game in the first stream which is neat)

[prime lichen]

lol I don't even remeber seeing that when I first started the game.... definitely needs to be on for every single time you open the game. All the other games I play that have photosensitive elements has it every time.

[north mesa]

especially since features change - we didn't get the message again with the flashing was added to gardening - if it's always there you don't have to remember to enable it when it's relevant to a new feature

[sly dew]

This is the direction I've been going in the last few days, too... after getting to a completely jaded and hopeless place with not just the game, but the lack of value placed on simply being a decent, empathetic, and rational human. As I'm sure you all remember.

You were one of the people who helped to make me feel truly seen and not alone in a really long time about accessibility and inclusion topics. Once I'd slept an inordinately long time, ate and showered and slept again, I awoke calm and focused and ready to go to work.

You all inspire me so much. Not in the toxic inspiration corn kind of way, but just with your dedication and collaboration. Your courage to speak up for all of us, despite the ableism and bullying we all inevitably face for doing so.

You all helped me break through my increasing despair and find some hope, again. Maybe that sounds ridiculous or corny, but it's the truth.

I'm not promising that I won't fall apart again. My spoon supply can fluctuate WILDLY, with no warning, bc of the impacts of my disabilities and the way they interact with one another. And to be completely honest, I know a lot of people interpret my tone, even when I'm not angry, as dismissible emo rage or hate. It isn't, but I get that it's taken that way. Unfortunately, it's just the way I know to use words and be open and honest as possible. So I also won't promise not to get into loud or angry seeming debates.

But I'm done with the tone policing. I'll do my best, but I won't apologize for actually being angry at the things we're all being forced to endure.

Regardless, I am trying to more heavily focus on research and a simple list of facts that may be helpful. I'm going to try to put it into high gear tonight. And if there's ANYTHING within my capability I can do to aid any of you with your attack on the inaccessibility of this game, or any other kind of bigotry, really, all you have to do is ask. I'll give it any spare or flexible spoons I have in my arsenal.

I also want to draw everyone's attention to this absolute mockery of a Palian presence at the upcoming game devs conference scheduled for March. Brace yourselves, bc this one nearly took me out in shock at the exploitation and hypocrisy.

https://schedule.gdconf.com/session/it-takes-a-village-cultivating-social-coziness-in-palia/899488

[north mesa]

this game is nowhere near mature enough for s6 to speak to this topic alone

[sly dew]

Any ideas on how we need to address this?

[static wolf]

Dang if I lived in the area I would go because ???? So many things in palia are competitive???

[north mesa]

it should probably be a panel with any similar games. as far as addressing this - you'd need a very strong argument to bring to the event organizers and some support for your request

[sly dew]

"Some experience/understanding of social dynamics is encouraged."

exCUSE ME???

[north mesa]

the palia community is so far from being established and they didn't follow best practices (the community management, safety, and governance corpus is extensive and robust) in the outside-of-palia communities they own - so the lessons learned would just be what didn't work in 4 months? or by then 8 months

[hoary heron]

Maybe they'll be talking about the mistakes they made? Perhaps it's wishful thinking on my part--but when the ERG (Employee Resource Group) leaders from companies around the world meet at Disability:IN, there's a vocalized expectation that we'll all share our failures as well as our wins, so we can all learn from each other and do better. Admittedly, that's a space where competitor companies all become partners for the sake of building a more Accessible and Inclusive business world.

[flint nexus]

Excuse me for choosing to find this hilarious rather than infuriating, I don't have the energy for that...

[static wolf]

They did say some "surprising lessons"... wonder what those are...

[prime lichen]

I know the conversation has moved on a bit, but i just wanted to pop up that I'm also posting about the lack of accessibility options in social media fan-run Palia groups.

[sly dew]

Oh, I totally understand and agree. I'm honestly wavering between incredulous laughter and horrified destructive impulses lol

[north mesa]

$5 says it's the basics of community management, safety, and governance

[sly dew]

Probably that they can get away with ignoring us and still grow their player base. But I think we can prove them wrong on that one, in the long run.

[static wolf]

"If you market to the cosy community, which is a demographic that's particularly appealing to disabled gamers, they expect things like captions and brightness sliders????? Big lesson"

[sly dew]

Or at all, really. Not in the current circumstances. Not even in March unless they manage to very quickly get very much more clever than they are.

[north mesa]

Just in case someone doesn't want to click through or it changes

It Takes a Village: Cultivating Social Coziness in 'Palia'
Eileen Shiue (Design Director, Singularity6)

Pass Type: All Access Pass, Core Pass - Get your pass now!
Topic: Design
Format: Session
Until recently, games that feel cozy, and games that feel deeply social, have felt mutually exclusive. Competitive games can tell inspiring stories of friendship and triumph, yet are generally guaranteed to have many examples of player frustration escalating into disruptive behavior, while many cozy games have either focused on single player experiences, or limited multiplayer experiences which range between one-off interactions with strangers that don't lead to creating connections and deeper persistent experiences with existing friends.

With Palia, the team aimed to break into the unsolved "Cozy MMO" space, leveraging the Community Sim genre that gives a clear foundation and demographic that already recognizes the value of a cozy space, and building it into a social experience that can scale into the future. In this talk, explore the approach taken, lessons learned along the way, and hopes the team has for the future.

Takeaway
Attendees can expect to learn about opportunities and challenges in designing Cozy Online Games, including some surprising lessons learned through the Open Beta launch of Palia.

Intended Audience
This is for game designers who are interested in learning about building social coziness into a game's foundation. Some experience/understanding of social dynamics is encouraged.

[flint nexus]

The fact that it isn't titled "How NOT to cultivate social coziness" doesn't give me much hope 😆

[sly dew]

Thank you. And we should all probably be keeping digital backups for every important post we make, or promise they break, any proof we have. Bc when they realize what's happening, I'll be very surprised if they don't nuke every forum they have the power to trash.

We may also want to maybe create our own space, so we can still stay organized and motivated, even if they do try to shut us out completely.

[north mesa]

thinking about tech lay offs from the last 2 years - I know (both in my professional contacts and generally looking at which areas got cut) there were world class community managers, community safety engineers, and community governance experts s6 could have hired before closed beta started

[silk mountain]

Absolutely. The conspiracy theorist in me already feels a little that way about how the discord has changed over time. While I understand the necessity of keeping it clean and organized, it still feels sus that all of our feedback and concerns have seemingly gone poof. (At least publicly.)

[sly dew]

Instead, they laid off a bunch of their people, too. For absolutely no logical reason other than outsized greed.

I wonder how many of those people may have been trying to push for them to be better than they were becoming? To live up to what they marketed?

Wishful thinking, ig

[north mesa]

oh if you look on the old channels listing out the team it's carnage, so many CMs gone from the server

[sly dew]

Have you ever looked at their glassdoor reviews?

[north mesa]

I haven't, but I bet there terrible. Gaming is notorious for toxic work places, even the best is really just the least bad - when it's an industry wide problem it takes a lot of work to undo because everyone is conditioned to work that way

[sly dew]

Please feel free to lmk if I'm missing something here, but I'm thinking maybe our biggest advantage on this is the way they perceive disabled people. The way they act, I'd be extremely surprised if they're not almost entirely of the ableist mindset that we're all inherently less intelligent or more gullible than most, specifically because we're disabled. Whether it's internal bias, or open disdain.

And that is a HUGE blind spot that, while harmful, we can easily turn around and weaponize in the other direction.

[silk mountain]

I mean, if their ableism is anything like their misogyny...

[north mesa]

one way to work on that is to really focus on safety, quality, and accessibility though - slow down the dev cycles and let integrating safety tooling, integrating accessibility tooling, doing quality testing, and doing accessibility test be actual steps with time carved out. It would change the tone and urgency quite a lot while also making the game better, more stable, and more widely accessible

hell, even adding weeklong hackathons focused on that twice a year would be huge (the bar is underground for tech and gaming at large)

[sly dew]

Oh, definitely. Iirc, though, at least one or two reviews specifically mentioned something about them talking the talk but not even knowing what walking is.

[north mesa]

not even knowing what walking is.
what a fantastic and succinct way to put that

[sly dew]

That their internal corporate culture is just as full of broken promises and blatant hypocrisy as their ig policies and behaviors

[radiant sun]

Feels funny that they're specifically talking about lessons they learned through Open Beta when they constantly talk about how the game is 'still in beta'. Not sure how they're going to hold a panel on their own when a large majority of players don't consider the game cozy or social in any capacity.

"The top thing we learned is that if our players enjoy something we should nerf it so they have to spend more time grinding and making our game look more enjoyable!"

[north mesa]

funny thing, the server travel/sync issues are preventing cooking parties right now

[sly dew]

"We also learned how to use toxic positivity and the fantasy fetishization of the toxic variety of so called 'Disney adults' to let the more broadly privileged among our player base use directed bigotry to silence complaints and discourage anyone unwilling to simply suck it up and be our hype team to quit the game entirely. Huge time saver!

[elder veldt]

........ Just read the glassdoor reviews and oh my god. ???

[sly dew]

This is one of the things I discovered about a month or so ago, and it was part of both really seeing what was happening, and getting more and more angry at those who were gaslighting me about it in the forums, here and elsewhere.

I got to a really reactive place, and I couldn't seem to step off that rollercoaster.

So thanks again. I mean that. To ALL of you. Even the ones I often think are trolling, disingenuous, or unhelpful. There was a really rough patch in this forum, but the cooperation happening here now lifts my spirits in a much more solid and meaningful way.

And we had to go through there to get to here, if you know what I mean.

[radiant sun]

It's sad when I can look at a game modeled after Disney and say it's more accessible

[north mesa]

there are quite a lot of unrealistic expectations on timing, prioritization, and parallel projects (not to mention all the feedback that basicallly want it to be a different game), but that plus it being in beta are often used against people with concerns or requests

[sly dew]

Stg, if I have to hear, "but it's in betaaaaaaaa!" One more time lol

I WILL TURN THIS CAR AROUND RIGHT NOW, MISTER! DON'T PLAY WITH ME!

[radiant sun]

I feel like they set themselves up for it when they made the bold claim they wouldn't do any resets once the game launched, to be honest. That is a sure way to kill a games development, especially if its a game like Palia, because now they have to continue releasing content and while trying to fix the list of bugs and issues that keeps getting bigger the more they release. It's like standing in the middle of a whirlpool and being surprised you can't get out

[elder veldt]

If you were resting on that with no outlet and no support while also being berated, harrased, stalked, etc. I can see why you were so angry and upset, now. Even if we disagree with approach, I completely believe in the validity of your position at the time, and even now if you continue to take a "torch the walls" approach.

The glassdoor reviews are ... bleak. Even taking into consideration that the recent ones were written by people angry over losing their jobs. It's still,,,,,, really intense.

I think both voices are important right now, yes? One that screams and shouts in justifiable anger and one that attempts to reconcile/mend the harm that's been done.

[radiant sun]

They simply don't have enough content to keep a playerbase while also improving the game, which is another reason of why they keep nerfing things and why patches are always broken when they release

[sly dew]

It definitely doesn't help that they are basically creating that whirlpool inside a giant pressure cooker. One they built themselves and seem really proud of for some unfathomable reason.

[north mesa]

it being in beta does give leeway for quite a lot qualty/polish/balance wise but it should be better. On the other hand(this is where the "in beta" argument is wrong but not by much), given the state of the game and the history to this point, it's going to take months to materially improve

[sly dew]

Who's chopping onions in the chat, huh? Damn.

Seriously, though, you have literally no idea how much that means to me right now.

[maiden pilot]

Out of context, kind of but... Not...
I played Palia today. Was nervous, on edge, the entire time doing the candle xmas quests. Do not do this, do not do that, careful, do not get a Bug, try not to crash the game, do not get into snowball situations, do not see people with a new flying in air skin. All day was a hopefully make it do not day.
I went into the new temple, I wanted to feel it, I wanted to know myself on my own.
I wasn't okay, I fell so many times from the Universe down, I'm not okay now. Still not.
And the only question in my head... Why? Why make something like this part of the main story everybody must do? Why?
Why break the promise not to make things like that required for game progress?
No, I'm not okay with this.

[hoary heron]

It's gotten pretty spicy in here a few times, to put it mildly, but on the whole I am so proud of the community within a community here in this space--more often than not, we're able to have tough conversations, and even some disagreements without needing mod intervention. Driving change and building accessibility is not a 1-person task. The teamwork, discussion, support, call-ins, and willingness to consider alternate experiences outside of our own are all essential for building something that is accessible in an equitable fashion--it doesn't always happen, but by and large, it does and it gives me life to interact with so many people who understand how I feel, who love this game for what it still could be.

[prime lichen]

Another update on how I'm sharing the call to support more accessibility options in the game... I made a pretty extensive Palia spreadsheet, and have been continually updating it, and I share it quite widely. It now has an open letter on the 1st tab that you see.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZFHWhaoGZcZ0MuU9a8yT0br_mNZ7vAIMVFqa5QhbR4Y/edit?usp=sharing

[hoary heron]

I wonder a lot about the level of communication and collaboration between different teams in the org. Like I know what the expected vision was, and the ideal that was presented. But I worry a lot that what we're seeing is a product of burnout, and disjointed internal communication. Hopefully they can get some time to recover over the holidays and come at things refreshed.

[sly dew]

This is such an incredible resource, and as in looking through it, recognizing just how much really intense and likely emotionally expensive work went into it, I'm in absolute awe of you and your devotion to this.

Thank you for doing so much with so little to advocate for all of us. It matters,whether or not they ever listen to us and address our concerns.

[sly dew]

If you look at the glassdoor reviews,I think you'll have at least a pretty substantial portion of those blanks filled in. Seriously. Go read every last one.

As a bonus, guess which ones are most likely written for PR by the current higher ups! Wheeeee!

[prime lichen]

Part of the reason I needed to make it is that I caught the blacked-out-accomplishments bug... but I was using a smaller version of it before that happened. It just grew a lot bigger afterwards.

But yea, when I have the ability & spoons to advocate, you bet I'm gonna do it. I get obsessive like that. haha.

[sly dew]

MOOD

[hoary heron]

I have. It hurts on so many levels and I want to give so many hugs.

[elder veldt]

This is incredible. And my HEART at the fact that Susan's powerful thesis is spreading in this community. Almost like it's becoming a rallying cry adkljxzcasd. So happy to see it resonating with so many people. Spread it everywhere!

"Unless we die suddenly, we are all disabled eventually."
— Susan Wendell. (1989). Toward a Feminist Theory of Disability. Hypatia Vol. 4, No. 2, Feminist Ethics & Medicine.

[prime lichen]

Thanks. I really like the quote beacuse it is just so so so true. Disablity is one bad day away for everyone. I'm so grateful you used that quote in your feedback letter so that I could learn of it!

Also, I will be re-posting the spreadsheet EVERYWHERE on December 14th... for all the new players.

[hoary heron]

Oh--if anyone ever does their villager gifts one skill at a time...I have a Weekly Gifts sheet sorted by what Skill you use to get/make the gift in question. Helps my neurodivergent brain accomplish things in the game so I'm not just running in circles. I try to update it daily until the full week of gifts is present. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1SktgdQahPhn2bKcMjwARkK1M6YRfzBVXoq9mTpHqAyo/

[prime lichen]

I'm going to link to this in the "useful Palia links" portion of my spreadsheet.

[hoary heron]

Then I should also probably share this one too, which also has a link to Yohannes' bulleted list of accessibility suggestions/needs folks have communicated in here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wWfFBIaYLoGnNL0t3GOqanktEieB6D99swchDsFc6Pw/

[prime lichen]

I'm going to link to this one right in the open letter!

[sly dew]

You know, thinking about it, I realize this is just... another Monday for most of us. This is simply what we do. We've all spent significant portions of our lives fighting to be heard, fighting to be seen, fighting to be given the privilege of the basic human dignity and basic human rights that so many take for granted.

We have so much more power, though, when we can come together like this to do it. Even if it's not as successful as we hope it will be, it will shift the Overton window in the correct direction. We will move the needle. Maybe we, personally, won't feel the positive impact of what we do here as much as we deserve to, but it will be felt, by others around us in the present, and by others who come after us and look around to see what still needs to be accomplished. The things we're building here will be lessons to actually right minded and compassionate developers of future games, and maybe even more than that.

It really bites to live in historically interesting times. In fact, I think that was an old curse that superstitious folks would lob at those they felt deserved to suffer for their actions.

May you live in interesting times.

But societal upheaval on this or a similar level has been the last step in every successful major social progression since the documentation of life began.

The harmed get smarter, they get stronger, they fight back. Those most benefiting from and maintaining the oppressive systems get complacent, lazy, and careless.

Things get really bad for a while. Then, just like the forest floor after a wildfire, bright green shoots of brand new flora start to peek through the ashes. And something beautiful grows.

[sly dew]

Is it okay if I do so, as well?

[prime lichen]

Absolutely!! I'm more than happy to have lots and lots of people using the spreadsheet, and by extension seeing the message.

[elder veldt]

@prime lichen Do you think I should make a reddit post at some point about the letter that we wrote with you all? We've never posted there before so don't know how it'd be received, or if it's warranted / necessary.

We'll take any suggestions and advice, as well as support in getting that feedback letter circulated. Because we think this community's concerns has the potential to speak to larger, general concerns overall regarding the direction S6 is headed if there's no course correction.

@hoary heron Would it be possible to come up with a master list of various different projects and links to those initiatives that we can all just easily include in our individual projects?

[sly dew]

There is also a pretty sizeable fb presence. I'll be glad to post and engage with whatever content we can provide to help move this along.

Not as large a group, but much more receptive, on bluesky, and I can share there, as well.

[elder veldt]

Can you link us to the FB O: We can make a post once we believe the time is right, just need to give people time to provide their feedback and critiques, first!

[prime lichen]

I think it's worthwhile. On my Reddit post I haven't gotten much backlash at all about the topic. There was 1 mean comment, but they quickly deleted it when others called them out. My post is now at 20k total views... and if we keep making noise, it will be noticed.

[prime lichen]

In the mean time, you can always link my Reddit post (https://www.reddit.com/r/Palia/comments/18ewr01/the_temple_of_gales_vs_disabled_palia_players/?sort=top) everywhere on FB.

[elder veldt]

Okay! We'll keep that in mind. ♡

[sly dew]

Right now, I'm probably going to zone out for a little while and catch a nap. Maybe some dinner and binge watching letterkenny with my partner for a bit.

Then it's back to work on my own little research project. If we could make it happen, I'd like to coordinate some of this so we have a sort of a blitz prepared that's... hydra-esque. If that makes sense. Multiple heads creating absolute havoc, synchronized and timed to take advantage of their own marketing blitz that's coming up in a few days.

[sly dew]

There is an official group, and idek how many fan created/modded groups, but I'll try to gather links for you ASAP!

... To clarify, when I say I'd like to coordinate, I don't mean me doing the coordinating. Just that if we organize this right, we have a much larger potential impact.

[elder veldt]

👀

[prime lichen]

I just posted this publicly (something I never do) on my personal facebook page, tagging both the offical palia page & the Singularity6 page. Hopefully that will get seen by people as well.

[sly dew]

I tried to post a gif of someone saying you're a badass, but it wouldn't work, so here's a funny for you.

[rustic wren]

unionisation in the accessibility discussion chat tbh good for us

[sly dew]

Unionization anywhere is good, but yes. Collective action is almost always more effective. 💙

[sly dew]

Crap I'm really lying down rightnowdammit, but I had a thought.

Do we have a few disabled players who stream on twitch? Or even abled players who 'get it' and would be willing to enable twitch drops, so they can talk with us about accessibility options and requests DURING this atrocious forced viewing for exclusive content thing?

I bet we could do even more crowd sourcing of ideas and skill shares if we grabbed a lot of that attention!

I'll be back later, if anyone wants to spitball with me about it. Past this old lady's nap time

[north mesa]

even better if they're a partner ttps://www.twitch.tv/team/paliapartners - I only watch 1 streamer so I hadn't decided how I was going to pick who to watch, this would sort that for me

[hoary heron]

May I DM you?

[radiant silo]

I am a twitch streamer! Was also just thinking about recording a video for Youtube and was wondering if there was a bullet pointed list of issues (like vertigo inducing, epilepsy threat, migraine threat, but also the 'we won't make it competitive' lie and similar)

[prime lichen]

I'm a twitch streamer as well! And honestly, I don't have the biggest audience most days, but that actually may be a good thing when it comes to doing a stream talking about accessibility. And funny enough, I'm half working up to making a video for my YT channel about the accessibilty too.. .but I detest editing. lol

[hoary heron]

Editing is the bane of my existence.

[prime lichen]

Hey look, I've gotten my 2nd not-as-kind comment... and I love a good chance to be a little snarky. lol

ANNNNNND The group removed my post.

[quartz maple]

smh

[prime lichen]

No wait, my bad, they removed their comment. lol I just reloaded and the post is still there. Facebook was telling me in a pop up that the post was removed though, not that the comment was removed.

[quartz maple]

weird. but facebook is, well, facebook. also the game should have had accessability options while it was in alpha...

[prime lichen]

I'm disappointed they removed the post reply, because I was writing another reply to the comment they left after the one in my screenshot that was a downright lesson. lol

But they have now turned off the comments because they don't want arguments happening in the comments, and obviously some ableists were trying to start them.

[quartz maple]

hopefully those guys get banned from the page if facebook has that option (idk how facebook works cause i dont use it)

[prime lichen]

I have a FB group that I admin with over 8000 members... there's definitely an option to ban/kick people from groups. 😄

The marvelous thing is that I'm not using an account that is signed up to Palia (well, not one I care about in the least anyway...) to make all the posts.

And I'm not in the USA.... But maybe they could walk her to try and sue me.

[quartz maple]

not like she can have an actual case in the first place haha

[prime lichen]

Well that too! haha but them walking here was funnier. 😛

[cyan flame]

.... They should've scheduled this with ConcernedApe. The guy's a one-man gaming company (almost) and look at Stardew: cosy AND actual co-op game. You can play it with your friends/other players or play it 100% solo; whatever you choose, it won't have a single progression locked out.
SDV in this regard is far superior than Palia.
Not to mention: CA is also very pro-modding the heck outta his own game, which also means that if something doesn't feel quite right on the accessibility side, players may try to turn to custom-made mods to install.

[maiden pilot]

After 17 hours of trying and failing myself my char finished the new temple BUT I DID NOT. It needed the help of 2 ...fully abled.... friends. Each played a part but did not have enough time to finish, so they took turns. Both fell a few times, had to start again. Both said the same: " that's way too hard for a REQUIRED game content in a cozy inclusive game and that they (fully abled) struggled getting through this hell" Yes, they said hell...
My char got pushed through this and I still can't do it myself even with all teleporters active now. I can't, they said try and I tried. I can't. My speach was completely gone, could not get anything out, too nervous from this. It is now 2 hours after and I still have to use my AAC (communication device) to "talk".
I have a friend next to me, looking over what I write. This is how bad this temple affected me.
This is not a cozy content, not even for fully abled people and this hell is REQUIRED to be done.
I will never go back in this temple.

[cyan flame]

From the temple I still have to bring two treasures to Zeki + three and one "evidence" to Elouisa and Caleri respectively.
But the part that unlocks the bundle has been done now.
So they can stick all those missing things where the sun don't shine.
I'm done with that place too.

[radiant silo]

I wish I could do those parts for all of you. But I also wish it wasn't necessary for me to offer

[sly dew]

Absolutely

[sly dew]

I'm working on one, but it's not finished yet.

[radiant silo]

Take your time 😊

[barren atlas]

has anyone with mobility/dexterity issues tried the voice attack program? any success using it with palia? if so, any advice on its use?

[north mesa]

Stardew doesn't have community features though - palia does have chat, friends, and communities even if they haven't finished them or figured out how to handle them

[molten swift]

I stream when I am up to it and I streamed the closed beta and early days of the open beta and I was very blunt with my feelings on where the game is and pointing out lacking areas esp for accessibility. If I'm feeling up to it during drops days I'll stream it the same way, looking at all the current issues and talking about them.

[prime lichen]

Just a thought.... but has anyone considered contacting GDC about Palia not having accessibility features when they say they are an inclusive game that cultivates cozyness? The GDC may decide that this isn't a good look for them.... and on the off chance that GDC drops their session as a result, that'll help S6 take notice.
Would probably take multiple people contacting them though... we may need another copy & paste letter.

[sly dew]

I have been, but I was having a hard time figuring out the best way to be heard by someone with decision making power

[prime lichen]

Yea, the GDC website's "contact us" link leads straight to a 404 page.... lmao

[sly dew]

The basic "Contact us" button isn't likely to get us the result we need, I don't think. Even if it wasn't broken lol

[prime lichen]

I found the page though -- https://gdconf.com/contact-us -- Maybe if we try the GDC Content team... The discord won't let me post the email address, because they use a mailto link that kind of hides the email... so I'll do it in parts gdccontent (at) informa (dot) com

I have stream in an hour (if you want to come say hello, it's Sims2Squared on Twitch - I'll be playing My Time at Sandrock today), and got to have some food and stuff before that... but there is loads of time before the GDC confernece, so I don't think I need to rush out a form letter today. lol I'll try to work on one later this week, if no one else has tackled it by then.

[prime lichen]

Can anyone elaborate on the "shady" things they done with the discord in regards to accessibility chat? Partly just curious, and partly because it may warrant a mention in things like a letter to the GDC or in further social media postings.

[quartz maple]

it took us awhile (weeks maybe?) to get the chat back. when they rearranged the channels, the accessbility discussions was completely gone and they tried shuffling us to general and discussions to talk. (i believe so? i was here for it but i have memory issues) that opened up people to get harrassed and having ableist to go after them. it took some time before this channel was added back. it seems like they would have left it out entirely if people hadnt kept bringing it up and being loud about it

[prime lichen]

Yea, that's not a great look for them... Add that to the pile. Thanks for explaining to the best of your memory (boy, do I feel you there... lol). I'm glad it was added back in the end though!

[quartz maple]

yeah even tho the occasonal ableist decides to try and sneak in here

[prime lichen]

And they probably insist that the ableist things they are saying aren't ableist at all on top of that. 🙄

[quartz maple]

yup. they get shut down pretty quick and chased out tho XD

[sly dew]

They were telling us they were going to remove the accessibility forum, and we were basically begging them not to do it, but they ignored us, as usual

[prime lichen]

I should hope so! Follow up question that popped into my head. I know at least 1 mod team member hops in here... but do any of the Community Team? The ones with [S6] in front of their names?

[sly dew]

Then they left it that way for a bit, until we made so much noise it was better for them to give us a space. But they made it clear from the jump that they weren't going to pay any attention to it.

[prime lichen]

Restored with a fight, and no support from the [S6] team. Gotcha.

I gotta run to go stream, but I'll be back later. 🙂 Thanks guys!

[sly dew]

Lol no. They've basically been saying 🔩 you

[quartz maple]

yeah the community team is either just trying to keep their heads down and just do their jobs or something else. idk what they do when not working on palia related stuff but so far i do not have a good impression of them

[molten swift]

I think the cm team is getting put between a rock and a hard place a lot, they can only say what s6 lets them, and they're stretched pretty thin and it's getting worse as far as I can tell

[static wolf]

To be fair to the CMs, there are like 3 community team members at this point- there used to be a lot more, and they used to be a lot more present in chats, but it seems like more keeps getting put on their shoulders for work + what they're expected to do without hiring more people to accommodate those expectations. And they have their own NDAs and management directives that may keep them from saying more- I do feel for them a lot and the interactions I've had with them (especially in the before beta state of the server) made me like them a lot. I honestly think they're overstretched and, like we've said before, s6 needs to hire an accessibility expert (or two), who could as part of their job also be here with us to help monitor accessibility-specific feedback

[quartz maple]

they just need to hire more people period tbh. they should have the funds too, they just dont want to or cant get new people cause of their glassdoor reviews.

[willow glade]

I do wonder, has anybody thought of applying to be a Shepp next time? Might be a great way of getting your voices heard? 🫶🏾

[quartz maple]

they dont listen to the shepps either or police them all that much lol. one of the shepps helping us has to fight to be heard just like us

[green kelp]

I assume that no one is attacking the CM team. When I talk about the CMs or the devs, it still boils down to S6 pulling the strings. So the CMs not being active in chat or the devs releasing buggy updates, it is because they are working within the constraints placed on them by S6.

[barren atlas]

Sdv has chat. Steam handles the rest. Can have more ppl per server with sdv mods than palia allows

[north mesa]

CM should be doing a little of the spec writing and sign off on things related to chat, friends, and communities in Palia plus managing the Shepp & Partner program and the Palia run spaces outside of the game (discord, twitch, and reddit is all i think), but they may also be tasked with handling all social media, some of the post writing, and help desk/support can fall under community as well - so meetings (internally, w/ shepps & partners, w/ platforms), testing, moderating, researching, writing, and wrangling anything they get from the communities to attempt to pass it on to PMs on the dev side. - they should have at least 30 mins unpaid lunch and 2 paid breaks of 10 minutes or more each day; so with that and the admin any job has they probably have about 6 hrs a day to work on all that

[lost obsidian]

Hi! I'm usually lurking around here, but i do want to add a little insight about this channel specifically

Before the google form, the forums were the primary place to provide feedback. Unfortunately in the long run, it turned out that it was very inefficient for this purpose, along with having many issues that are related to how discord threads work specifically

So they made the form, and asked us to provide feedback through that instead with the intention of eventually closing the forums when they feel like they have captured everything from it

Then the closing happened, which of course meant that the accessibility feedback forum was closed as well. It wasn't targeted specifically, it was just part of "maintenance" if you will

However, the CMs didn't realize that it was a little more important than "just another feedback thread". It was used to share workarounds on specific issues, and just generally as a safer place to talk about accessibility concerns

So naturally, the community, as well as us, shepps, have asked them to provide a place for these kind of conversations to continue. When we made our case, it was never a question of if it will come back, it was more like when and how

It took them a little time, because the discord is not the only thing they are responsible for of course, but they made it happen in a relatively timely manner. So while i can't comment on how the dev/engineering side is responding to feedback, the CMs are very much responsive, and they want to make positive changes whenever they can

It seems like they are also starting to hire, or at least the head of community role is up for grabs on their career site. So i'm sure we'll see some new faces as well early next year, we'll just have to somehow make it that far hehe

[static wolf]

Oh I'm glad they're hiring! Last I checked they weren't and I was very concerned for the current CMs having so much to do- hopefully they hire someone soon! (And hopefully hiring an accessibility consultant will also be on their radar)

[north mesa]

might drop a link to that posting to some former coworkers

[lost obsidian]

The end of Q4 is always tough on companies. That's usually when the investors want to see the big bucks they made during the year, and hiring more people goes directly against that. It's the unfortunate reality of how investments work, plus they probably want to wait out the switch launch to see how much they need to expand an where

This also affects my company personally, as our CEO has just been asked by "The Big Boss™️" to report on why some of the targets were missed. It's serious enough that i haven't seen her or the entire financial department all week outside of the conference room

So yeah. Once this quarter is over, i'm sure there will be more job postings as well. No one has any specific ideas about an accessibility consultant, but i can safely say that the CMs are fully aware of what's happening around here, but it's not in their scope of work to handle (i mean like hiring people for specific positions). I do hope they hire someone for that type of work though, as they really should filter a lot of changes/features through someone experienced in these issues

https://www.singularity6.com/careers

[static wolf]

Yeah of course the CMs can't hire, so hopefully the feedback just makes it to someone who can and who will listen. But that's interesting insight to Q4, and makes sense

[prime lichen]

Financials at the end of Q4 are another reason to be making noise about changes we need now, so that they start (hopefully) looking to include accessibility changes to their Q1/Q2 (hopefully not as far away as Q3) plans.
Disappointing that there aren't CMs engaging here in the accessibility discussion, but your information cleared up on the reason for that. I would definitely like to see a CM in here who can help us get into better communication about what's needed for the game.

And, also, thanks for your information on the changes to the discord that happened.

[north mesa]

next year's plan was likely made in q3 or early q4 though

[prime lichen]

You're probably not wrong about that. But there should be more wiggle room, one would think, to shuffle something people are making a lot of noise (and making them look bad) up the calendar.

[lost obsidian]

No worries, i'm very happy to help when i can

Like i said, you don't see me much around here, but i do read this channel a lot. Mainly because i believe that you guys should be the ones holding the microphone, and not me who isn't really affected by these issues. You are able to convey your concerns much better than i would be able to, which is why i'm mostly just listening. Melodic is also here from our side to help out, which i think is super cool

So yeah. Hopefully next year will bring a lot more good news for you guys

[north mesa]

yeah, each half and each quarter do get replanned half way though the half or quarter preceding it but typically it's an order change or an urgent need(responding to a live event or an incident usually) meant punting on something

then the teams will plan their individual sprints around those quarterly, half, and yearly plans (seems like s6 does 2 week sprints based on the release cycle)

[lost obsidian]

There is some wiggle room. Like 0.175 was supposed to come out much later. Maybe even early next year, but i don't know anything beyond this. However, after seeing how broken 0.174 was, they brought it forward by a lot

So they are able to respond in some ways, but i'm not sure how much time it takes for a piece of feedback to actually make it through design/planning, and eventually make it into the game

[prime lichen]

Palia just posted a new short. Go reply with your thoughts on accessibility. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ewCLFSkavwM

[prime lichen]

I'd be happy for them to say... we're hearing that many players are being locked out of the storyline due to being unable to complete the new temple (or any temples), and we're working on a solution. And a line about them planning further accessibility options would be really nice too. Just want some transparency. So, I'm flooding them (squeeky wheel style) until we get some. Hopefully more people will join me.

[lost obsidian]

Yeah, i understand

We have already got them to make a few changes around their communication, but of course, there are still things to improve

We went from not even having a patch schedule in alpha, to now having a consistent patch day with patch notes the day before, and monthly dev blogs about what's coming up. The october dev blog even has a little timeline for a couple features, as in "within the next month" or "within 3 months". The november blog got a little messed up because of scheduling, but it also mentions early next year for ammo pouches for example

So we are definitely heading forwards, just in baby steps. Now that there is a lot more talk about accessibility in general, i'm sure we'll see some improvements in that area too. Hopefully soon, as i am a little concerned about how much Nintendo will let them get away with to be honest

[prime lichen]

Yea, I am actually looking at what I can do to contact Nintendo to get a statement on why they are supporting this game that has no accessibility features. Don't know if I'll be able to get one... but hey... who knows.

[prime lichen]

I called Nintendo, and they were only able to direct me to this page: https://www.nintendo.com/us/about/prcontact/ so I filled it out as a content creator (which is one of the choices) asking for a statement. Now I wait for the "within 24 hours" and if I don't get what I want maybe I see another phone number on that page I can try.

Also, it says that the page is only for US based media, but there isn't a page for my country... so, I many not get a response just because of that, even though I didn't say outright that I'm in Canada.

[wicked matrix]

That sounds cool , too bad im from another country😅

[radiant sun]

I think its worth noting that the skill guild channels were created as an alternative for the feedback channels when they closed. They never offered an alternative for the accessibility channel, even after that was asked multiple times in the original channel when news of the channel closure was announced. The channels were closed on the 11th/12th and this channel wasn't reopened until the 24th - so it took a pretty decent time for it to come back and that was after Disabled players flooded the server feedback channel.

On the day before the closure and the morning of the closure there was extensive conversation about how Disabled players felt ignored, and it was the first time we actually had a CM/mod (whom I believe has left now) actually listen to us - but that conversation was cut very short with the removal of the channel and no alternative being presented.

I do understand the struggles of game dev, but I do want to reiterate that it did take a pretty sizable time to get this channel back and only after flooding the discord server feedback channel with requests; and the concerns that were mentioned on said day before/the morning of the original channels initial closure still haven't been addressed.

[sly dew]

You're absolutely right on that one

[prime lichen]

Valuable to know. I am very much considering making a video about this... nothing too fancy, as I'm not great with editing... but just a video that's a discussion with a great thumbnail and title that will interest people in clicking.

Like: "The Number 1 Thing Every New (and Old) Palia Player Should Know!!"

[prime lichen]

I have a new custom discord status. You can view it by clicking on my name. Feel free to copy it if you should feel the need to do so.

[cyan flame]

I stumbled across one and personally chose to commit ~ｖｉｏｌｅｎｃｅ~ (I can handle those people, so no worries!)

(Also: I'd like to point out that "violence" is only so to speak. pls, don't take my words literally. )

[prime lichen]

Hey, sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do. Sometimes it does take that to shake someone up. I'd let rather them talk themselves into looking like even more of a dunce, and my point ends up proving itself. lol

I kinda love that the ones in the screenshots didn't even any of the other comments and it's obvious.

[cyan flame]

.... Looks like that one person didn't realise there's a lack of accessibility.

[prime lichen]

To be fair and transparent... I didn't either until it affected me. I was just having a grand ol' time and beliving the marketing that the game was inclusive and accessible. Maybe I'm biting hard into this because of that, but even if I am that's not a bad thing. I feel able to speak up about this, so that's what I'm doing. I might not be able to do it day in and day out, but right now I can.

lol that screenshot is great. I don't think it was that violent... it's confronting them with just a little extra umph behind it.

[cyan flame]

Yeah, everyone experiences things differently.
FOr me, I never realised how some things, mostly on the graphics/visual effects side, could impact other players so much, at times even to the point of being nearly life threatening (literally).
My first thought about accessibility, as a hoh myself, has been "would be nice to have some subs. And also to have a way to better hear the audio clues" (which also led me to leave a couple feedbacks in this sense).

As for the screenshot: thanks. My "#no-filter" brain was about to make me drop also a line about calling them a "Karen". Thankfully I managed to regain control of my rational side and discard that part.

[prime lichen]

Yea, there are definitely voiced lines that do not have subtitles. I took a college course on the Deaf Community and learned a pretty decent amount of ASL about 20 years ago after I had made some Deaf friends (my sign is way a out of practice now as now it's much harder for me to sign because of my hands). Those lines should definitely have subtitles... and having audio controls would make life so much more pleasant for such a wide range of people.

I couldn't sleep, so my #no-filter brain should be kicking in any time now. Plus, my landlord is dropping by tomorrow for maintainence and I gotta cleeeeeean... so that doesn't have me in the greatest mind set right now. I'm proud of you for regaining control of your rational side. I've written so many responses and deleted them today to write something nicer.... lol

[static rain]

I'm happy to have discovered this forum place about accessibility. I did suffer from arthritis in 2021-2022 and though I had been totally cured during 2023. But I had signs in another game (Stray) and then in Temple of Fire, confirmed yesterday harshly in Temple of gales, I could not finish for a sub quest (tablets). Palia did wake my wrist RSI and my fingers joints. Of course millenial game developers don't suffer of any disability and probably are not even aware of issues we may have. Again happy to see there is a community here that cares and is holding the flag for ALL players to make this game better on accessibility. Example: I'm not short sighted but that ridiculous chat window with dwarf fonts hurt my eyes for sure. I'm flabbergasted that 20 years after Second Life a game team cannot come up with a better chat. I was in awe to see the rude replies you got on-line. It says a lot in which society we live now and our children and grandchildren will live in tomorrow.

[radiant sun]

Not the blatant infantilizing in the first one.

Also I would go against saying that because they're likely millennials that none of them are Disabled; no one is too young to be Disabled :o) . It's entirely possible someone on the team is and, like us, they're being pushed to the side.

[silk mountain]

I agree with your sentiment, however it's important not to gatekeep disability by age. I'm a millennial with ADHD that absolutely affects me and my husband, who also has ADHD, is a millennial as well. I also have moderate scoliosis that can cause a lot of pain throughout my body.

Disability isn't bound by age or background. As we love to say around here, "Unless we die suddenly, we are all disabled eventually."

[radiant sun]

100% I have Cerebral Palsy and much of my life people have not believed me because they think I'm too young to be Disabled

[radiant silo]

Same, ADHD and scoliosis which needed partial spinal fusion

[static rain]

ok sorry and apologies for the age thing. I'm a dino. But brains still work 100% and I can see when I'm wrong. Sorry but some millenials and Gen z do get on my nerves sometimes. I'm a boomer 😄

I feel for you with disabilities described as above.

[rain bough]

Honestly, ageism and ableism are sometimes two sides of the same coin and game developers will often think, "Aah, players of our demographic will never have to worry about things like arthritis in their hands! They're not old enough!" because it's often thought of as a condition for old people. But it's really not. Juvenile arthritis can affect children of any age, and other conditions that mimic arthritis, like fibromyalgia, can affect people of any age too. I'm 38, and I was diagnosed with fibro about five years ago, but had it long before then. It's something that I've seen frequently trying to get medical help as well, doctors think, "But you're too young!" edit: hit enter too quickly 🤣

Basically what I'm saying is that it's okay to make the mistake that arthritis and disability are an aging issue IF you haven't been informed. But once people like the devs have been informed, then they need to do better. There are SO many forms of disability, and they affect all ages, and all of those ages are able to enjoy video games when they are made accessible

[static rain]

I learned more here. TY for that input. Not fair at any age indeed.

[prime lichen]

Yea, that's the one who yelled at me for calling them ableist... and absolutely insisted that they are not. They ended up having their comments removed, being responsible for the comments on the post being locked by the group admin, and they ended up being banned from the group.

[elder veldt]

The disability community once again showing it's not that hard to have hard conversations and to learn more and do better 👏

[hasty berry]

Hey

[old vector]

i'm only 20 and i'm disabled !! oftentimes i find that older people tend to be less understanding ab young people having disabilities bc they didnt necessarily experience it when they were our age :// or they just suffered through it and now they expect us to just sit back n suffer through it too

[prime lichen]

YouTubers Perzival & Wolfie (neither has a massive amount of subs, but it's still something) have both responded to comments made by me on their most recent videos saying they are willing to try and make videos covering the issues we're having. Go subscribe to them to show your support!

[static rain]

Why should I be less understanding of young people having severe disabilities? I find it terrible in fact. Being now aggressive toward "older" people like me that may not have been aware how young it can hit people will not serve your cause I fully support. Should I simply shut up instead of posting here ?

[prime lichen]

I think that was more of a generalized comment about their experience with older people reacting to their disability and not necessarily aimed at you in particular.

[old vector]

i didnt say that nor did i mean to say that :/ i was just talking ab my general experiences nd trying to explain to u what it's like to be a young person with a disability. you seem perfectly nice and understanding just like u didnt have all the information so i was sharing my experience with you.

[sand bough]

@static rain You aren't the only boomer reading this channel.. sadly, I have found that there's lots of people in the world who seem to believe that if you're "old" and disabled it's not the same as being "disabled" (and I've been outright attacked for simply sharing my point of view.. maybe we're just 'too old' and aren't welcome in a 'inclusive' channel?

[prime lichen]

I'm a millenial. And yes, there are absolutely people who believe that being disabled when your older is not the same as being disabled, and there are absolutely people who believe you can be too young to be disabled. What's really the problem here is society's view on disability and that sometimes that view creeps into our perception no matter how much we try not to let it.

No one here is perfect with their words. The majority of us are affected by medications that alter our ability to think clearly. I think everyone who frequents this space needs to keep that in mind and understand that the words we write may not always convey our actual intent... and we need to keep in mind that not all of us are reading things clearly for the same reason.

All of us need to just kindly clarify with each other when we think someone is saying something that we feel could be attacking us specifically, because that's not normally the intent behind the words.

[radiant sun]

Please don't think you're not welcome here, no one said anything of the sort :o) We were just gently calling in and speaking about our experiences as younger Disabled folks, because the reality is people often associate disability with age - it is nothing against you or any older folks in the channel.

[sand bough]

@prime lichen it might very well be "society's view" but one would think it shouldn't be happening HERE. When a disabled human is discriminated against.. does the "actual intent" of the person who discriminated REALLY mean anything at all? Does the person on the receiving end hurt any less because the other didn't "intend" to hurt them? NO. The damage is done and anybody's intent is irrelevant, IMO. With regard to me being attacked IN HERE, I'm old enough to recognize an attack on me personally. I had rejoided the server because I saw someone else attack someone in here and I couldn't just ignore it, so I rejoined the server, reported the post and a mod had come in to deal with it when I was attacked.. so they were able to hide the attacking posts right away.. maybe you missed it.. doesn't really matter because it's more than abundantly clear (to me) that y'all are your own group and there's no room for anyone else's point of view or opinion.. y'all don't care, and I'm good with that it's not like it doesn't happen in daily life. Oh and just to toss one final opinion in (before I leave the server again).. when I make a "mistake", I take the time to genuinely apologize to the person I've offended (because I know it wasn't intended to hurt someone but can also recognize if it has and believe apologizing is simply a way of respecting the other person.. I also know not everyone has learned that valuable lesson (my own millenial daughter still hasn't) even in adulthood. Something to think about might be that just because YOU don't view something as an attack or you have personal knowledge that someone didn't intend what was said.. doesn't mean the rest of the world views things the same.

@radiant sun I absolutely believe I'm not welcome here. I've tried on multiple occassions to join the conversation.. agreeing with much of what had been posted... but I've found that, as someone who's not a "regular" this channel is the most unfriendly place I've read.

[radiant sun]

I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, to be quite honest

[old vector]

me neither i'm... quite confused honestly

[quartz maple]

Pity party much?? /hj

[prime lichen]

My sincere apologies that you saw it in that view. I didn't intend any harm... I was just trying to keep things "cozy" as the mods have requested. I didn't sleep last night, I've been answering comments everywhere for 2 days straight now (which is far from my usual activity), and just generally have more on my plate. I think I may have read your response incorrectly. Again, I apologize and do my best to think through exactly what my words may be taken as to the best of my ability in the future.

I'm new to this channel... and I understand what you are saying about feeling pushed out. I've been pushing in and I've probably stepped on some toes myself because I'm really, really angry right now about the lack of accessibility... and I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes to this stuff. I myself am in the process of getting an autism diagnosis, so sometimes I don't check myself quite as well as I should.

And I honestly don't think you should leave! You checked my words and told me what I said wrong. We need people like you to help us all learn to be better.

[radiant sun]

Only thing I've seen is people suggesting to write to the FCC and being told by a user that it was a waste of time and too threatening.

[prime lichen]

I'm not in the states, so I'm not sure what the FCC can accomplish... so I'm just doing what I feel able to do to make people more aware of the situation.

[radiant sun]

Oh, not directed towards you at all ❤️ I'm also not in the states - I was saying I think thats what the previous person was talking about. I remember some tone policing being done and stuff like that, which of course people did not like

[prime lichen]

No worries, I didn't take it as at me. Just wanted to give 2 cents (which is worth exactly nothing money wise these days...lol) on the FCC idea.

[old vector]

i think also, for me, i'm neurodivergent, and i personally dont see anything ive said that was wrong, and honestly i just don't feel a need to apologize or change my tone or anything until that's said directly to me that i personally offended someone. like i'm not good at just guessing in social stuff. and ik several ppl here r in that situation too

[prime lichen]

That's totally fair! Plus, if we're all apologizing to each other all the time nothing is going to get done... but... I also don't want anyone to walk away feeling bad about stuff. It's a fine line sometimes.

[radiant sun]

I think with so many of us here, myself included, being Autistic it would be great if we could make an oath to not assume what someone is saying unless they're clearly and plainly saying it. There have been times, I think now, when someone gets angry because they feel that someone implied something when they never actually said it. While I empathize with them; it can be hard to have conversations sometimes because of it.

I know that when I speak I'm not saying this "between the lines" so to speak so when people assume my words mean something they don't it can be frustrating.

[old vector]

yeah thats what i meant before kinda, and being direct ab saying "hey when u said this it seemed like u meant this, am i wrong?" rather than making big long posts about not feeling welcome here and how others should apologize when no one knows what's wrong (😬😬 sorry!!) can be helpful

[old vector]

oh no, i'm not saying no one should apologize or anything, just that sometimes people dont understand they hurt anyone's feelings, so first we have to... know what we're apologizing for lol

[ionic sleet]

I have the literal worst articulation with words this stuff hits me so hard lol. Being homeschooled, still in teenage years, and unable to physically speak I tend to just make everyone mad at me without really meaning to

I know I mess around in other channels but I just wana make people giggle not have a fit 💀

[green kelp]

Yeah, even the mod messages have rubbed me the wrong way when they come and talk about remembering the rules. If you think I'm breaking a rule, tell me directly, none of this beating around the bush. The other day in here when someone tried to tell me how I should feel about S6's accessibility BS and I pushed back. I got bonked by a mod and the warning told me to be nice. Telling someone I'm not listening to how they think I should react is being nice because the alternative involves cursing and possible graphic descriptions.

[radiant sun]

Yeah, the tone policing def has to go. Everyone can have different methods of how they think we should advocate, but they shouldn't push that onto others

[old vector]

right, and ive asked "hey what rule was specifically broken, i'm confused?? can u dm me?" and no one has dmed me or said stuff or anything

[prime lichen]

That is actually a really good idea, imho. And reminds me of the KPop fandoms always trying to assume things between the lines.... and KPop Idols having to say... "nuh uh" on livestreams. Couple of young girls the the group New Jeans just went through this.

[hoary heron]

Had to actually be in the office today and good lord end of year is a special kind of heckadoodle in the Mergers & Acquisitions segment of Human Resources T_T. But I wanted to pop in for a moment to highlight this and share a communication tool that has been helpful to me (and has SO many uses outside of the couples counseling in which I learned it):

"What I'm hearing is..." combined with Assuming the Positive Perspective. Try to assume the best intent, like you were saying, and state "What I'm hearing is X; if that's not what you're trying to convey, can you please clarify so I can better understand?"

There's also one I've brought up before called "Ouch and Educate" that's crucial to building inclusive spaces, and is a method of calling in. It looks like some of that is being attempted in here, and we all need to do our best to refrain from going on the defensive by reflex, and instead listen with an open mind and open heart.

[north mesa]

lots of ways to miscommunicate - even with a set context and the same language - the suggestions of calling in, double checking meaning, and pointing out words/phrases/arguments with multiple meanings or historical baggage all sound good to me along with the general assume good faith thing. Feelings will absolutely still get hurt for any number of reasons (personal history, rsd, those multiple meaning situations, and more) and that does suck, but we can keep it to a minimum

[prime lichen]

This is one of the best practices I've ever heard of. Thank you for sharing this!

[sly mirage]

Hey guys just hoped on to boost the discussion server after hearing some people's stories on palia chat right now. I am so sorry to hear how frustrating the game can be especially with people advocating for more acccessibility options. Anyway I'll try my best to spread the word about this and hopefully more people join in to boost this discussion

[pastel mica]

I finally went to do the new temple and boy howdy that motion blur when you pan the camera downward. I don't usually get motion sick easy but I was feeling that by the end.

[prime lichen]

Thanks again for showing your support in chat Venice. It was great talking to people on there. Made some new friends. 🙂

[prime lichen]

Yep, I got severe vertigo in there so fast. I could barely even go to the edge of the 1st island for more than a few seconds at a time. Sorry you had a similar experience. Shouldn't be happening.

Not just because there should be accessibility options in place to avoid it, but also (a reminder) that they said 3 months ago in the September 2023 Dev Update that they would not do something similar to the tower that would lock unique items behind it. We must complete the tower to open up the ability to do the vault, and completing the vault gives the unique items.
And do not forget the people who have had trouble with the water & fire temple that opened up previously. This goes further than just the air temple. Never hurts to be reminded of reasons why your speaking up. /tedtalk I'm going to bed. Have an awesome timezone. ❤️

[radiant sun]

Yep - I can't even complete the temples because all of their bundles require fishing for absurd amounts of hours and since fishing is inaccessible to me, and they refuse to add a way for players to trade (requests don't count, they don't work if you haven't had the item) I can't complete them so I just stopped playing

[golden forge]

It's extremely gross how people treat those who need accessibility options.

I don't have physical limitations myself, but I do know I have mental ones. I cannot stand the idea of building things in a game that do not work on some sort of grid. It's why I'm glad Palia has a snap/grid system. Without it, I'd be stressed.
I know it's not entirely the same, but my point is, it's just crappy how some people are more understanding of one issue but others.

[steady yoke]

yeah i can't do the new temple because of the anxiety it gives me with falling and flying. probably not the same as experiencing vertigo but the anxiety isn't fun. 😦

[meager summit]

Is there a way to increase font size on the switch? It is a bit small on TV

[radiant sun]

Assuming Switch is the same build as PC, nope :/

[mortal current]

Trying to play Palia on switch is difficult even with my glasses on, using handheld. It’s incredibly small.

[cyan flame]

Now, imagine if S6 listenened to us and had implemented at least an option to tweak the in game chat's and/or UI font size in general, before releasing the game on Switch.
Imagine... 🥲

[prime lichen]

Is it wrong that I'm low key hoping they get a bunch of bad reviews on their Nintendo Store page for not having font options & more?

[noble kelp]

I can't believe game companies are so stupid as to release their games on multiple platforms before adding any basic accessibility features

[cyan flame]

If they seem to disregard feedback (something "private", because it stays between the single player and the company), then I too hope for bad reviews to be brought in (since they're public and everyone can see them). Maybe that way S6 will finally do something that players have been actually demaning, for a change.

[mortal current]

It’s honestly ridiculous. I’ve been very patient and forgiving about everything so far, but the fact that they released the game on switch like this??? I almost closed the game and deleted it as soon as I started it up lmao. It’s really bad when I can’t even see the game well with my glasses on, holding the game six inches from my face. I’m also kind of hoping that they get bad reviews from this release. They’ve had time to listen.

[radiant sun]

Yeah, we've been asking since before closed beta and got nothing.

[prime lichen]

When you compare accessibility options for Palia against Coral Island & My Time at Sandrock, both of which only just had their full releases recently and had accessibility options in their game during beta, Palia is failing hard.

I'm going live on Twitch in about 10 minutes, with drops on, and I welcome accessibility discussion! Click on my name in Discord for the link! (and I totally understand if the mods feel this is self-promotion and delete this... I just want to talk to people about what's going on. lol)

[mortal current]

There’s absolutely no excuse for how badly they’re doing. They’ve had so much time to do one of the most basic accessibility features, honestly I don’t think I’ve played any recent games that didn’t have font/UI size options and other basic accessibility features?

[prime lichen]

Yea, I'm pretty angry about the lack of accessibility for people, especially when they keep saying the game is "inclusive".

[radiant sun]

There is genuinely no excuse. Font size options and brightness sliders are literally the bare minimum when it comes to accessibility.

[quartz maple]

Yeah. We gotta be loud and spread the word wherever we can to hopefully get s6 to listen, or keep any new players from interacting with the game

[old vector]

especially when people are just labeled grumpy for talking ab accessibility... ://

[warm jungle]

Who approved these font sizes with no scaling holy hell

[old vector]

i couldnt even read the legal stuff on switch if i tried

[warm jungle]

Normally I have no issue reading small text but this actually hurt my eyes lol

[cyan flame]

Those people fails to realise that a lack of accessibility tools can impact everyone, disabled and able-bodied alike. The Switch release is a fine example of that.

[versed sorrel]

This… I’m legally blind and Jesus I can barely read anything in the game 😭

[pastel mica]

Dare I ask how tiny the chat is on Switch?

[quartz maple]

possibly more tiny then on pc, which is small already

[pastel mica]

Oh dear. So handheld mode would be even worse. Definitely not playing on the Switch then.

[warm jungle]

Handheld text size is atrocious. I don't usually have vision problems (close up, at least, far away is where my eyes flip me off lol) and never felt I had an issue with a switch game handheld before but this. this is somethin' else.

[prime lichen]

For you guys that joined my stream earlier today, thanks so much!! I had a great time going to houses and just talking to you in general. I know in my stream I said I would be back on this evening... but I messed up. My sister has to get up for work at 3:30am tomorrow, and so I may need to keep things 100% quiet for her if she has any trouble falling alseep so that I don't contribute to that. So I may not be back on today, and tomorrow I get my every 3 months nerve blocks... so I may not be back on until tomrrow evening!
Didn't want those who joined from here and didn't jump on my discord for live notifications to think I bailded on them. ❤️

[exotic warren]

I already knew I was never going to play on the Switch b/c I only have a Lite and I wouldn't be able to see anything. (Let's add on top of that my ADHD that made me completely forgot that I had the Google Authenticator tied to my Nintendo account and don't have that anymore... I'm still logged in on my Switch, but... 🙃 ) Though I really would like the items for linking accounts.

[cunning cloud]

I know people have already stated that the text is too hard to read on the switch but I also like to ask if we can have a UI slider to increase the size of the UI in cases like opening up your storage

[green kelp]

!feedback

[hardy vigil]

Feedback & Suggestions

Looking for where to share your game feedback & suggestions for Palia?

• To share feedback directly with the team: https://palia.info/feedback
• To discuss feedback with other players: #🦋│issues-discussions
• To read the latest Dev Updates: https://palia.com/news
• For bug reports, contact: https://support.palia.com

[green kelp]

It is a solid idea but the devs don't read this channel. You can send feedback that they will get through the link above.

[quartz maple]

what are they even talking about? im legit so confused...

on another note i may try to make a small video but i dont really have editing smarts (the biggest thing i can handle is windows movie maker...) and i dont do voice overs because anxiety + social anxiety... so im wondering how i can put a video together if at all

[warm jungle]

some people don't like to believe me when I say cozy games often attract the worst people you'll ever meet lmao

[elder veldt]

If people are new or returning to the game for the switch release, and you have accessibility concerns you'd like to deliver to the team, we have a pre-written crowdsourced feedback letter with instructions for submission to official channels here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/16yAymqMVly2gVJY6QtEi2gYi6JSOD6h5sB6eT39kWLU/edit?usp=sharing

[woven knot]

I'm done, new temple too hard to complete and the text still is too small anyway.

[prime lichen]

To make me feel smaller. Not gonna happen.

[warm jungle]

People are wild

[prime lichen]

Came up with a "nicer" version of the comment to leave, in case anyone is looking to catch flies with honey (this one is in response to their YT community post about the Twitch drops): I love these (and the game), and can't wait to get everything.... but we need more transparency about why there aren't accessibility controls in the game, please! There's no UI scaling, no ability tun turn on/off specific VFX, no ability to turn on/off specific sounds, no colourblind modes, no alternative aiming reticules, no ability to skip platforming mini-games in temples (that only unlock a vault to complete bundles), and many more options are missing.
You're marketing the game as inclusive. You should be leading the way, not leaving players who need accessibility options behind.

[mortal kettle]

I'm not sure if this was asked before, but a friend of mine just got into Palia because there is controller support, and the text for them is too small. They'd like a way to increase that

[prime lichen]

There isn't one. The game has almost zero accessibility options, UI scaling being one of them.

But a lot of people are having trouble with seeing the chat on Twitch, so hopefully that will finally drive at least that change.

[barren atlas]

you'll need to submit feedback here https://palia.info/feedback, devs don't read this channel

[eternal skiff]

Do you think we should make a template about the text size? I am not visually impaired enough that it is an issue to me personally, but it is objectively tiny.

Maybe if we uploaded similar feedback en mass about it, it would push the issue as priority, as it should be?

[static wolf]

On the topic of templates, I wish we could know how they process the information from the feedback form. My one fear with templates is that the form is completely anonymous + allows anyone to submit multiple times (which is good!), but I wonder if it has any form of "spam detection" (automated or by a person) that would pick up template submissions as one person spamming/resubmitting instead of all of us unique people submitting a template because it's a useful tool and the explanation articulates the need for features well.

Have they said anything about that anywhere/would any shepps be willing to ask and see if they can publicly clarify (they might not be able to, which is understandable) whether templates would get caught in any filters?

[versed sorrel]

Omg klance profile picture

[timid storm]

Just came to discord as am also struggling with text size on switch! I played in handheld yesterday but the game seems like it would be beautiful on big screen- so, I am playing on my large TV screen now across the room and the text is so tiny I cant actually read any of the menus 😂 I am still playing just guessing what im clicking aha

[radiant sun]

Seems they could have saved themselves a lot of headache if they actually listened to us from the beginning

[lost obsidian]

As far as i know, the submissions are being read by humans (aka, the CMs), then they categorize them for the dev team so they can make decisions on what to prioritize, what they can achieve in what timeframe, what's possible or not for various reasons, etc. I'm not sure if there are automated/manual stopgaps in place for what you are talking about, they haven't mentioned anything specific to us either

But it's been a minute since we had a conversation about feedback in general. I don't think we can get an update on it until after the holidays, but i also feel like we are due for clarifying, and/or making changes to the process. Especially as we'll have new CM(s?) joining at some point as well, which will surely end in some changes in duties

[cunning cloud]

I put in on the feedback as well to have the ability to remap your controller buttons on switch because as someone with hand issues I need to play with a specific controller set up for me to be able to play without pain

[static wolf]

Okay, thank you for the information! And it makes sense, it really is getting further into the holiday season than it feels like it should be. I hope we'll be able to get some clarifications and changes in the new year!

If they're all being read by humans, then maybe just right before the template we could put something like "hey I got the template for this from the accessibility channel and it resonated with me" (or some variation of that) before copying it over so they can clearly see it's not the same person

[prime lichen]

I just found this site, which looks to have won awards for it's work on accessibility in gaming... maybe we could include it in our replies/pleas to S6 somehow, as somewhere semi-official they could look at for guidelines to back up our requests. https://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/

[quartz maple]

that looks like itd help a lot! hopefully anyway

[warm jungle]

My babies forever

[versed sorrel]

Can I dm you to talk fandoms? 🫣 (also an artist so I have some Klance art you might like)

[warm jungle]

Go right ahead!

Man though I'm still baffled on just how tiny the text is on the switch version. How. How do you do that with no scaling option I just cant

[versed sorrel]

I know, I have to sit super close to my like 40 inch tv just to see half the text 😭

[green kelp]

They'll add UI scaling now since it isn't just the disabled community asking for it.

[warm jungle]

I don't even have enough faith in them doing that. but if they finally do cause of that I'm gonna be as mad as I am glad it's been added tbh lol

[green kelp]

"Will you add accessibility options for $1 billion?"
"Can we think about it" - S6 probably

[warm jungle]

lol, sob

[upbeat terrace]

is it just me or is the new temple quests not accessible friendly? like..not everyone can do these fly jump puzzles..

[static wolf]

Yeah 100% agree- I know several people in here have mentioned vertigo issues in particular

[upbeat terrace]

YEP, I got really nauseous trying to do the quest, I haven't been back since day one. I also just dont have the dexterity to be fly jumping around trying to figure it out =/ might try again later or have my partner help me, but he gets vertigo too so idk.

[silk mountain]

Yeah the weird blurring/multiplying thing was brutal. I don't even have any kind of vertigo or anything and it still made me really dizzy

[static wolf]

There's also just no overhead map (even one as vague as the kilima/bahari maps), which for me was very confusing because I get so turned around, particularly when I'd ||go through the portals||

[static wolf]

(Which to clarify is not as bad as vertigo + people being made physically ill, just another example of an accessibility issue)

[primal prairie]

*"We need to keep moving forward, what's next for Palia?" "A lackluster winter update with items you can't obtain all of before the holidays?" "A Switch release?" "We could fix bugs for OG players and add bare bones accessability features?" Is thrown out window

[tacit hull]

I do like the game. But fixing bugs, and providing accessibility would be a higher priority for me, than new features (accessibility features) and new content. I have to say, I'm not really seeing the bugs much myself.

[prime lichen]

I don't know how far you are into the temples... but the newest one I ended up leaving in tears because like The Tower it just gives me instant severe vertigo. I love this game, and am sooooo into the lore... but now I can't progress in the story because I can't finish the temple. And all the temple does is unlock the vault to put items in it! I don't understand at all why they don't have an accessibility-friendly alternative way to do them. 😦

[prime lichen]

Don't worry,, there's no reason why any one type of accessibility need should compete with another. 🙂

[upbeat terrace]

yeah the newest one gave me vertigo too 😦

[static wolf]

the bugs are almost endless and some of them really impact accessibility - can't rebind k (lots of left handed people like ijkl for movement), can't deny or hide friend requests or remove friends (notification reloads on server, big problem for me w/ social anxiety), achievement bug (especially bad when you have memory issues), more that my brain can't come up with rn because I'm in a call right now.

But then yeah, lots of things that aren't strictly bugged but are very inaccessible (no text sliders, no brightness sliders, things like the air temple, lack of more detailed audio sliders [for things like eating sounds and other player sounds], etc)

[upbeat terrace]

you said it well!!

[quartz maple]

im trying to mess with reshade to make the game darker but i dont really know how to fiddle with the settings just right

hopefully we can get them to add and finally look at accessability like they should have been from the get go

[static wolf]

oh yeah for sure, I just wanted to acknowledge that physical pain is definitely something that they should prioritize because it's physically damaging (though I think the teams that would create vertigo-friendly alternatives and map drawers are probably different and they could do both simultaneously?)

[upbeat terrace]

I understand this game is in 'open beta', but its also 2023..theres no excuse to not add these settings to a game.

[prime lichen]

I'll be yelling from the rooftops as long as I can stand to. lol
Which reminds me, I'll be yelling from the rooftops from a new facebook/yt account, Ingress Cloak (which literally means Access Palia when broken into the history of the words... lol), because I picked up a pretty ugly abelist sexist troll on the account I posted my screenshots from (which was my personal account, oops, but no worries I changed my name & profile pic on there too).

[static wolf]

100% and it's hard to say "it's just a beta" when it's been being developed for so long and it's been launched on multiple platforms - and to my knowledge it's not advertised on a beta on switch? plus if we're beta testing we should be able to test their features and help them expand them for "full release", not beg for features and hear nothing

[quartz maple]

wait thats such a cool name tho 👀

[prime lichen]

They aren't even advertising it as a beta anymore! The only reason anyone new knows it beta is probably because another player told them. lol

I'm officially holding out hope for the upcoming cozy MMO Loftia. I do want to message them and see if they are planning on accessibility options early though. And if they are, then I can be like... well, Loftia has them and it's not even in alpha yet, so there!

[quartz maple]

i need to get around to changing my youtube name and pic. and i havent seen lofia yet

[prime lichen]

https://loftia.gg

[quartz maple]

omg that looks so pretty

[prime lichen]

I kickstarter backed it for beta access. Never even thought about accessibility when I did, because it looks very playable!

[quartz maple]

this is gonna steal all of palia's audience maybe when it releases xD it looks so cute and the idea of hanging gardens! AND WIND ENERGY!

[upbeat terrace]

loftia is cute but not sure my kind of art style. but ill still check it out when theres more info 🙂 hope it has accessibility, the trailer shows theres inclusivity, so thats a good sign.

[prime lichen]

I can totally see it as being one of Palia's biggest competitors. And if Loftia says they have accessibility built-in... well, that's another thing to take to the Palia team: you are going to loose customers to this game.

[quartz maple]

we will just have to wait and see. its good theyre taking so long to develope their game

[prime lichen]

If they do it really well, I have no problem with them taking all the time they need. I feel like Palia is really rushing the worldwide release stuff, especially with all the bugs.... but it's likely the switch version was planned a really long time in advance and they had to meet that deadline.

[static wolf]

palia's trailer showed inclusivity though so 🤷 we'll see when it comes out I suppose

agree that palia feels like they committed to a deadline and had to rush it, especially recently. and then they're rushing so many new features out without having an accessible base to pull from, so it feels like the rushing is also accelerating the inaccessibility

[prime lichen]

I can see all these rushed releases from S6 really coming to bite them down the line if they don't get these early bugs & accessibility sorted out before putting out even more content.

Slow and steady wins the race, and all.

[quartz maple]

the romance faq is a little eh... to me but other then that it looks neat

[prime lichen]

Guys, I just got a reply that gives me the tinest glimmer of hope for this game... just give me 1 min to anonymize it!!!! DON'T GO ANYWERE!

I think the transcripts for these images will be too long. If you need a transcipt, just reply to me here asking for one and I'll DM it to you. ❤️

To be clear, I will still not be letting them off the hook for this. lol I will still be commenting all all their FB and YT posts with comments about the need for accessibility

[quartz maple]

fr fr. at least someone seems to be on our side

[prime lichen]

The also left the thread marked as open and not solved. I'm gonna send them that gaming accessibility site.

[quartz maple]

gl gl!

[prime lichen]

This is my reply back to the glimmer of hope. Again, if you need transcripts, DM me and I'll get them to you asap.

AKA: A nice way of saying your house is about to be set on fire, don't just stand there waiting for it to burn.

[deft magnet]

I have a history of games giving me severe vertigo and motion sickness. Should I wait to start the temple quest until something has been done?

[maiden pilot]

You can do everything until you unlock access to the main Island. This part is inside and is a puzzle inside. When you finish that you can go out, see and stand on ground of first island. Look around and If your brain says no leave and wait for a change until continue it.

[deft magnet]

Thank you!

[silk mountain]

I absolutely would. There's a sort of filter underneath everything that leaves a trail of duplicates behind, not to mention ||you're flying over vast, empty space.|| (Spoilers for what the temple looks like). I don't have those problems and it left me dizzy at times.

I feel like you'd have a better time waiting if you're able. But of course you know yourself and your limits best!

[keen tartan]

Is this channel to talk about controller support or a different channel?

[prime lichen]

I have severe vertigo related to primarly to Occipital Neuralgia. I could not get off the 1st island and left rather upset. I'm glad you've been warned so you can mentally prepare for any side effects you might have. ❤️

[prime lichen]

If it's controller support related to accessibility functions, I would say so! Otherwise maybe the #🎲│console-zone channel. Keep in mind that the [S6] crew does not come to this channel. Best way to submit feedback is still via support.palia.com

!feedback

[hardy vigil]

Feedback & Suggestions

Looking for where to share your game feedback & suggestions for Palia?

• To share feedback directly with the team: https://palia.info/feedback
• To discuss feedback with other players: #🦋│issues-discussions
• To read the latest Dev Updates: https://palia.com/news
• For bug reports, contact: https://support.palia.com

[keen tartan]

Thanks for the response, it’s more in regard that my controller doesn’t appear to be working anymore when I load Palia through steam, was wondering if it’s happening to anyone else by chance

[prime lichen]

Ah, sorry, can't help you there. I think I used a controller a few times 30 years ago as a kid. lol I wish you luck getting the answer you need!

[keen tartan]

Thanks haha

[prime lichen]

When peole tell you over and over that the Temples, or anything else is the game, is easy and we don't need accessibility functions in game, remember:

[dense osprey]

heh, the PC game is an accessibility dream compared to the Switch version

except fishing is a lot easier on Switch

[prime lichen]

Fishing would probably be easier for me on the PC if.... I wasn't stubbornly refusing to buy the best hook attachments from Einar's guild store until after I have the aquarium (already bought the plaque, wallpaper, and treasure chest). lol Maybe if I had that attachment, I wouldn't have lost 9 gold ancient fish in the last week. lol
That said... every time I fish with the fishing attachment you can craft (and have the friends + brew boost)... I never see a single ancient fish. hahaha

[dense osprey]

Heh, I've never seen an ancient fish 🙂

[prime lichen]

What's your fishing level? I'm just hit 42 last night. One of my lowest sklls. I'm not the biggest fan of fishing in any game.

[dense osprey]

just hit 92

[prime lichen]

Oh, and were you able to complete the temple of waves? They only become available after that vault bundle is done.
Cause that's crazy that you're at lvl 92 and haven't even seen one!!

[dense osprey]

yep... completed waves a long time ago, still havent' seen one. it's frustrating

[prime lichen]

Daammmmn, that's some bad luck. May the RNG gods smile up on you soon!!

[dense osprey]

thanks! Addicted to the game 🙂

[quartz maple]

i wish there was a way to multi buy items from zeki's store like how we have multi crafting. palia is going to give me carpel tunnel 💀 /gen

[dense osprey]

fishing is my least favorite so I pushed myself hard on it. and agreed on multi buy

[prime lichen]

Agreed that multi buy would be nice!

[quartz maple]

fishing is awful in this game ngl. its good on paper but "faster fish = difficulty" or it being so rng riddled is... not it. we need an option to have the fish be slower or something

[dense osprey]

yeah, I have a gaming mouse but it can't keep up with some of the violent yanks

[prime lichen]

I use a thumb controlled track ball and when I have a high level fish on the hook my catch brackets will get stuck to the side for anoticable half a second if the fish & brackets go to far to the left or right.

[jaunty fox]

I’d like to have a simpler fishing minigame, or no minigame at all. I’m disabled and following the rhythm is very difficult for me. The rest of crafting is easy because no minigames are involved, I’d like the fishing to be more like in Animal Crossing

[prime lichen]

I think a simpler mini game alternative would be more accepted by the public at large... and if they were to do a simpler version, I would love to see something like Sun Haven's mechanics. Long click to cast, 1 click to hook, and 1 click to catch. Now, not all fish are easy to catch even with that, but you do get used to the pattern of each fish and there doesn't seem to be a time limit on the catching click... so you can watch until you are at least somewhat confident in your catch click. This is an example of one of the hard fish to catch -- https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qRHoAovN3tY
Also, I don't think the fish from the gold fishing spot should disappear if you can't click to catch the first time. They should keep coming back to your hook until you hook it like it does with the rest of the fishing.

[jaunty fox]

That would work too

[static wolf]

(If you mean like leaving your rod out there, the starred fish does stay on the line.) I do think the pool should stay there if you accidentally pull back with the fish off the line though, until you actually attempt to catch a fish (or time runs out for the node )

• a second on a simpler minigame alternative

[static wolf]

I also think there are more ways they could allow us to modify the mini mgame as is that would make it much more accessible, some as those rod attachments and some as settings

Ex. Setting to toggle: "Rod doesn't lose health when fish is jumping" (so if the fish is inside your zone, you're holding down, and it jumps, you don't take damage)

Ex. New hook attachment: fish move slower (right now there's one to make your zone move faster, so this would be like the flipside of that, your zone moves at the same speed but the fish doesn't go side to side as fast)

Another possible setting: "Fish never escapes" (when you run out of health, instead of escaping, the fish stays on the line, and you have to get it back to like 15-20% health to catch, but it stays on the line as long as you need - maybe 'x' to make it escape if you get a fish you just can't catch or don't want to)

I also think they should make a bobber that's similar to the guild shop one available from the beginning because that's been a huge accessibility aid for me. And right now we can craft like one minor rod booster, or buy major ones from the guild store? We should have craftable versions of all rod boosters bc those can be helpful aids.

Another setting I just thought of (and sorry for the long message): "rod doesn't damage while idle". Right now I think our rod takes damage even if you're not holding the reel button if the fish is outside a zone? A setting to disable this would be nice for people who might need to take a break and readjust mid-catch (particularly for the trickiest fish)

[quartz maple]

WoW's system could be adopted too and im really, surprised no other game has done so actually lol. its one click to cast and one click to catch. very simple. just need to click the spell or press a key to activate it while near water that can be fished in and is deep enough, then when the bobber move and its splashing, click it to reel in the fish and you auto loot it if you have the option on

[quartz maple]

yeah. its really bad. we've been asking for a UI scale since closed beta (those that have played it) and they still havent added it to this day. hopefully us being loud about it will finally get them to add it

[prime lichen]

DEAR TROLLS SURFING THIS CHANNEL: Stop signing me up for cooking parties. I don't care if you want to annoy me, but stop annoying the hosts and other players.

[static wolf]

Tbh, idk what the wibbly wobbly NDA of alpha is, but I think it would be (legally) safe to say people have likely been advocating for it since alpha testing

[hasty berry]

a way to make the flow tree sound into a caption for HOH/Deaf individuals

[prime lichen]

omg wibbly wobbly NDA is an amazing description! hahahahaha

[prime lichen]

Yea, that is definitely needed... along with captions for the voiced lines of the NPCs when entering and exiting conversation with them.

[hasty berry]

I just did a feedback for it

[quartz maple]

the NDA feels like a weird catch-all at this point. i get not wanting for things to get spoiled but ehhhh

[static wolf]

My understanding was that I'm just not supposed to talk about things that used to be in the game and aren't anymore? So UI scaling, if it had never been in the game, shouldn't be NDA?

[prime lichen]

People trolling me = me finally getting the ancient fish plushie!!!!!!!!! Pls troll me moar. lol

[prime lichen]

ANNNNNND... I just caught my 1st gold star Long Nosed Unicorn Fish!! Wooo!! I love trolls!!!

[cyan flame]

Because this is how it is with Nintendo, iirc: either companies deliver right away, or they may lose the train entirely and have their game not added to their shop.

[jaunty fox]

This channnel should be for accesibility issues only

[quartz maple]

That's, what it is for. Were allowed to go a bit off topic tho cause just talking about accessibility all the time gets draining and exhausting. Sometimes we need a little break to celebrate the silly and nice things.

[radiant sun]

And it's not like they even read this chat...except for when it's time to tone police that is

[subtle shore]

the text and the map icons on the switch really need to be bigger because it’s so small and i have to squint all the time to try and see what it says (and i don’t have vision issue, so i can imagine how much worse it is for people who do have vision issue). it literally gives me headaches if i play too much because of how much squinting i have to do

[prime lichen]

Sometimes we like to bring a little levity to the channel. Laughter is the best medicine and all that.

[devout echo]

It happens at the same time and it does have a cloud over it but I agree there should be more subtitles and captions or signals that’s are clearly visible from a distance

I use a controller to play but since it’s PC sometimes it reverts back to the keyboard and mouse and I am bedridden and I can’t put it on on my lap so it’s next to me on a table. Very inconvenient when I’m doing task especially cooking and it suddenly hates the controller and wants the mouse

[patent iron]

This! I was excited to play Palia but immediately noticed I could barely read the font, icons and symbols. After a bit of research I learned that there is no setting to change this and it is a concern for a lot of the community (and not just the visually impaired). I am feeling discouraged that this game is not accessible to me, but hopeful that changes in the near future would mean that me and many others could enjoy playing Palia.

[static wolf]

The clouds are something I barely notice until I get into the grove (and sometimes not even then), so I think they need a much stronger visual indicator (in addition to captions you can turn on, and honestly it would be nice if there was a setting to have it marked on your map/compass as well)

[fierce remnant]

When in the floating temple area the weird motion blur on the clouds / anything below the temple is extremely disorienting to look at. (It also effects clouds and other moving objects in the distance and it makes my head swim)

[hoary heron]

I discovered that when streaming my playthrough of the temple earlier and oof. My stomach heaves every time.

[fierce remnant]

I am so glad I didn't stream my playthrough of it just purely for that and the fact that it took me an embarrassingly long time to get the image puzzle-

[prime lichen]

Yea, the glaes temple gives me super severe vertigo and I've tried a few times to go in but have had to leave each time after only a few mins. It's rough.

I was streaming when I went to the temple of gales the first time... and ended up crying on camera. That was just so super ✨ cozy✨ !

[warm jungle]

I don't even usually have issues with vertigo and diziness and the wind temple was absolutely messing with me. That whole aftereffect when you're near near the bottom of the skybox or whatnot, why

[quartz maple]

cause s6 hates disabled folks and wants to push them out the game no matter what

[green kelp]

It definitely seems that way.

[prime lichen]

I just got the wildest ableist comment on my screenshot post guys. lol Apparently ppl who are disabled can't use photoshop!

[quartz maple]

YEAH! LITERALLY SO RUDE OMG! i hope they come back and try to make themself seem like they didnt mean it

[prime lichen]

I keep replying and tagging them. lmao