dnd-discussion

[limber trail]

Oh wait it is, that's right, my bad

[echo meteor]

a great spell

[crystal latch]

11 minutes per 8-hour duration

[rough basalt]

30 minutes actually right?

[fossil hollow]

iirc, base cast time is 10 minutes

[limber trail]

It's 11 minutes per casting - 1 min casting time

I've pulled the spell up

[fossil hollow]

oh, is only a minute?

[limber trail]

yeah. Still 11 minutes all in all per casting

[echo meteor]

cast it twice and create a sphere xD

[glossy vigil]

How you make money with the alquemy jug?

[fossil hollow]

ask your DM

[crystal latch]

Create a valuable liquid and sell it

Iirc that's the one with basic poison?

[glossy vigil]

How much vials you can make p/use?

[fossil hollow]

the jug says how much

[echo meteor]

just go out in the wilds and kill some wildlife and sell their loot

[crystal latch]

The item's description will have the answer to that

[echo meteor]

or find a local bandit camp to rob

they probably have loot that they stole, that you can steal

[rough basalt]

The real stuff is when I hit the party with a curse that makes them unable to be hydrated or hunger sated cause they walked into the wrong tomb.

[limber trail]

Again, nothing stopping monsters from lying in wait the second that bubble pops. It has an 8 hour duration, so they have eight hours to prepare a trap and they know there's gonna be tasty people in it.

[glossy vigil]

4 ounces of basic poison, how many vials is that?

[echo meteor]

that’s true even without the bubble

[rough basalt]

Man I can't wait to bust out some curses.

[echo meteor]

“remove curse” :3

[limber trail]

The bubble is a giant 10ft radius flare for monsters, which says "Adventurers inside, come and get me!"

[crystal latch]

Notably, you can just make another hut while waiting for the first one to end, so monsters can wait and wait and wait...

[glossy vigil]

I read on Reddit that making acid is more valuable than poison.

[rough basalt]

Nice, you're Cursed again cause you're trespassing on the Lord's Tomb

[crystal latch]

And while the Tiny Hut remains, it's an incredibly good fortification

[limber trail]

True, but then you as the player are waiting and waiting and waiting. You're safe, but you're very trapped.

[echo meteor]

your gonna need a fire to stay warm anyways

[rough basalt]

Sure you could leave, but what about your Fighters wife who was kidnapped by the Mummy Lord?

[crystal latch]

Your allies can all move out of the hut and back while enemies can't enter

Heck, you and your allies can shoot through it

[echo meteor]

you can’t starve and die thanks to the druid xD

[limber trail]

You are, and that's the challenge of the other approach. Both are difficult, I'm just illustrating some challenges of tiny hut.

[echo meteor]

cast a hut while in the hut?

[crystal latch]

There's a reason why Tiny Hut is one of the most broken things you can action cast with chron10

[limber trail]

An ambush predator isn't necessarily going to make it clear that it's waiting for the hut to pop either. Which, deserts typically have a lot of ambush predators.

[glossy vigil]

How many bottles of acid can you make using one of the alchemy jug? its just say 8 ounces?

[crystal latch]

Tbf if you're traveling through a desert you probably don't desperately need to long rest that often, only dungeons truly deplete resources

[burnt valley]

Lul! is this like a matryoshka doll of tiny huts?

[fossil hollow]

creatures live in the desert too

[crystal latch]

Phantom steed is fast enough that you can skip most random encounters and becomes available as a ritual at the same level as Tiny Hut

13 miles/hour travel pace, 200ft move speed in combat

[limber trail]

you need to long rest once each 24 hours to stave off exhaustion

[rough basalt]

You go through a dead magic zone.
Should've slowed down.

[crystal latch]

Exhaustion save DCs start out pretty low

[burnt valley]

you fished a black room response

[crystal latch]

It takes 61 or so hours to cross the Anauroch on a PSteed, notably

[fossil hollow]

ok, one thing i still dont understand. Why are Animal Lords on the Titan Summonin Scroll

[rough basalt]

Cause they are

[fossil hollow]

they arent

[limber trail]

You're also using a lot of solutions that become available at 5th level, for a campaign that's per sora's own words, starting at 1st level and I assume staying low level for a while

[fossil hollow]

theyre Medium Celestials, Neutral

[crystal latch]

I joined the discussion when the topic was Tiny Hut

[rough basalt]

True. I meant the scroll

[rough basalt]

Depends on what happens, but generally yeah

[limber trail]

Ah, well I'll catch you up then. We're discussing a 1st level survival-heavy campaign Sora is gonna be running.

[burnt valley]

ah fair

[rough basalt]

Once they phase out of the low levels and survival takes a backseat, they'll have other things to worry about

[lavish flame]

thats a good question, why isn't it just a d6 table where 1-6 is each Titan (and you cut Animal Lord from the list)

[limber trail]

That's very weird actually. I guess it's easy enough to just reroll if you roll a 1-15, since it's something that's at the DM's discretion

[fossil hollow]

my solution was to just make a titan one

Forgot the name, brb

[limber trail]

that also works

[rough basalt]

There's very dangerous things in this land that the reigning wizards can't deal with for reasons.

And the players will likely draw ther attention

[fossil hollow]

King of Lizards/Reptiles Rex

[rough basalt]

Nah, someone straight out of Elden Ring

The most dangerous boss ever conceived

[limber trail]

Oh my god the party needs to fight king gizzard and the lizard wizard

[rough basalt]

Rick, Soldier of God

[fossil hollow]

Renaming him now

[limber trail]

I can think of one harder than that

[rough basalt]

Impossible

[limber trail]

Consider if you will, a goblin that casts grease at will

[fossil hollow]

Hard to play Consort without both hands

[rough basalt]

Oh god

Maybe I should throw Malenia in my world somewhere

Hit Tokii with Waterfowl Dance

[burnt valley]

Rick has 100 phases

[rough basalt]

Rick's HP bar isn't a health point bar.
It's a patience bar

[limber trail]

Rick doesn’t roll damage. He decides how much damage he deals.

[burnt valley]

Rick whips out the shinobi prosthetics at phase 5

[rough basalt]

True

[echo meteor]

yeah, survival is really only a problem 1-4… level 5 and onwards, there’s spells that help mitigate the problems

[rough basalt]

I take note of every encounter that may have rippling effects for my games.

[echo meteor]

and classes start having more disposable spell slots as they get higher

atleast, the full casters

[limber trail]

I’ve seen players run dry at all levels

[lavish flame]

holy shit I've been summoned

[rough basalt]

Who knows. I might just throw Imhotep from The Mummy at them during that campaign.

[limber trail]

Are you king gizzard and/or the lizard wizard?

[echo meteor]

well, if they don’t pick up the right spells :/

[lavish flame]

I'm a fan of their music

[limber trail]

It’s an honour

[echo meteor]

i mean, any cleric can just summon food/water at level 5

[limber trail]

When I say run dry, I mean, I’ve seen them run out of spell slots

[echo meteor]

not just druid

[echo meteor]

ohh, yeah

[rough basalt]

All that food and water dumped onto the sand?

Guess you're making sandwiches and sandcastles

[limber trail]

To be fair it’s created with containers and plates and the like included

[rough basalt]

Thought you needed containers for them to be put in

[limber trail]

Nah they come with it

[rough basalt]

The humble dust devil

Nah, if they use a 3rd level slot then they good

[pallid oracle]

and then god said "have some food"
proceeds to drop all the food onto muddy grasslands. completely ruining everything. jars of wine shatters across everywhere, leaving broken glass and pieces of chicken everywhere.

[rough basalt]

But there might be prying eyes who'd like to have someone who can conjure food and water at the drop of a hat

[cunning trail]

anyone wanna nerd out about how a fate grand order campaign would work?

[inland steppe]

I haven’t watched that anime in ages but I remember loving it

[echo meteor]

what stops the wizard from plopping a leomund’s tiny hut on the doorway of a dungeon before opening and killing everything in the other side?

just prepare one before doing anything and use it as a safe haven

[lusty tendon]

Guys i finally figured out what race my warlock is going to be,
Warforced warlock (custom lineage, as to not complicate things even more)

[limber trail]

The minute casting time and monsters just leaving

Move 20 feet into a different room

[barren panther]

2warLock

[jolly halo]

Hello

[cunning trail]

imagine playing as arthur pendragon or blackbeard or leonidas in a campaign
would be sick

[lusty tendon]

I was thinking he was dying but as an experiment prototype a necromancer/artificer put his soul in a machine so most of his attacks are going to be like cannon and blaster based but as he grows stronger his soul starts ripping through his cage of his shell to be a “wraith like being” or something

[jolly halo]

wait that sounds cool asf

[lusty tendon]

He is the patron (not sure to either choose fathomless to make it seem his soul is the one reaching out or fiend for more blaster like feel)

[burnt valley]

DM going out of their way to move the goalpost

[jovial shadow]

If that was already part of the session notes, that's fine. If it was done arbitrarily then, that's much different.

[fickle heart]

The size of the dungeon and the fact that many underground dungeons don't have that small of entrances.

[atomic kayak]

Also the idea that the stuff will just. Sit near the hut and let themselves be killed is also funny

Plus the wizard can't leave the hut

[fickle heart]

On a totally different note, if one wants to play in a way where Tiny Hut lets them really approach dungeons as a trudging dive, the game allows one to play in that way, if they so wish. That's more of a feature than a bug if that's one's goal, no?

[fossil hollow]

#optimization

[fickle heart]

Like, it's not particularly hard to make a game that has nothing cheesy. You just...don't let people do certain stuff as a matter of principle.

Now that people can't do said "stuff" via any meaningfully codified things in the game, the problem is solved, though now those functions have to be engaged in fully.

[tame kelp]

How do you call the moment when a player grab ANYTHING to beat the hell out of an enemy?

a player said "nah I hate single weapon"

[hushed mason]

gtab?

[tame kelp]

grab

[hushed mason]

Oh! I thought it was an acronym. I'm still confused though.

[fossil hollow]

what

i am having a stroke reading this honestly

[hushed mason]

I need a translation.

[tame kelp]

Dude I just woke up and I'm having a shower thought

[fossil hollow]

John Wick moment?

[hushed mason]

Re-read what you wrote. I'm not sure the words came out the way you intended them to.

[tame kelp]

a person grab a stick of wood and try to stab someone.

[hushed mason]

Uses an improvised weapon?

[fossil hollow]

Stab someone with a stick

[hushed mason]

Usually you hit someone with a stick. Unless it has a pointy end like a spear.

[tame kelp]

Ah

[hushed mason]

The stick is an improvised weapon. There are probably rules for that in 5th edition.

[tame kelp]

Let me search..

ah 1d4 damage

pfft what a low damage.

[harsh hollow]

If an improvised weapon is close enough in shape to an existing weapon you can use it as if it was one, but that's kind of up to DM caviat.

[tame kelp]

That's a cool optional rule ngl.

[frozen estuary]

It's a stick.

[harsh hollow]

(The example usually given for this is that breaking a chair and using one of it's legs is close enough to a club for it to count as one.)

I've heard farmers using their tools like a spear as an example as well.

[barren panther]

Tavern brawler

[harsh hollow]

The way it shakes out is kind of iffy rules-wise, but the fighter subclass from Humblewood lets you break improvised weapons over people's heads for max damage.

Basically a tavern brawler subclass.

[tame estuary]

is adventurers league less popular?

any particular shift? I got into this hobby very recently so I don't know context

but I'm assuming it used to be a lot more popular

[harsh hollow]

It has a specific ruleset because it's basically the competitive version of the game, so it's not as accessible.

So it's probably pretty natural that it's not as popular as the base game.

[uncut zenith]

It’s not so much a competitive version as far as I know so much as it is streamlined so people can hop from one table to another a bit more easily

[tame estuary]

which sounds really cool?

[harsh hollow]

I figured because it has built-in restrictions that it was at least more structured.

[tame estuary]

and the type of thing the people who would ghost on my games would probably appreciate more?

[uncut zenith]

The restrictions are there for the purpose of making it more structured

More structure means it’s easier to carry your character from one table to another

[harsh hollow]

Never seemed like quite my thing if I'm being honest, but nearly every character I've played was designed with a homebrew setting in mind.

[uncut zenith]

I’ve never played at an AL table myself, but to my understanding, the idea behind it is that those restrictions exist so people are generally on the same page if they’re playing the same character across different tables

[harsh hollow]

Why would you want to pursue people who actively ghost your games after the fact.

[uncut zenith]

It’s also personally not my cup of tea, but I know people who tend to like that playstyle really love it

[harsh hollow]

I guess it just feels like it leans into making things more video game like, while I personally enjoy the fantasy/writing aspect more.

[tame estuary]

it's more like, if AL is a lot more popular, then I wouldn't get those people when I'm looking to run a long term?

like hey, I get the appeal sometimes that I have a character and I kinda wanna play today but not exactly commited

[harsh hollow]

I think AL doesn't quite work like that. I think DMs for those tables are like

A specific job at events.

[tame estuary]

hmm

[silver field]

When is the next d&d direct

[lavish flame]

We're at a record level of radio silence from WOTC rn. We can make educated guesses about what they're doing from Unearthed Arcana's, but we have no idea what they're doing behind the scenes

[echo meteor]

wait a friggin minute, a level 5 wizard can buy a wish scroll, cast wish for 24000gp… use that gold to buy more wish scrolls

[fossil hollow]

needs a DC 19 INT check, and comes with a 33 percent chance to never cast wish again

[silver field]

I hear ya, I wanted to get my hands on some new books, I need to get my head distracted

[echo meteor]

33 percent only happens if you don’t use the effects listed in the spell

[fossil hollow]

no, 33 chance is for anything not replicating a spell

[echo meteor]

oh wait nvm your right

[lavish flame]

Level 5 with the funds for a Wish scroll is crazy, how have they budgeted for that

[echo meteor]

how much does a wish spell cost?

[fossil hollow]

...

[limber trail]

Iirc several hundred thousand GP

[fossil hollow]

its 100 000 GP in a CIty with a caster who knows it to have someone else cast it for you

[limber trail]

200,000gp actually, that’s the cost for a legendary item and the cost of scrolls aren’t halved unlike other consumables

[fossil hollow]

that said, i would assume nobody is going to be selling their wish

[lavish flame]

itd be 9th level Spell Scroll, so 100,000gp

[fossil hollow]

eh? Interesting, im looking at the hireling spellcasting table, it says 100,000

[lavish flame]

Spell Scrolls cost 2× their crafting price to purchase.

[limber trail]

Ah, I was looking at the raw prices for buying a spell scroll of wish from the DMG

[fossil hollow]

yeah, should have looked there lol.

still... who the hell would sell a wish

that isnt a genie

[limber trail]

Either way, atrocious return on investment. You too can reduce your total investment by 87.5%!

[fossil hollow]

yeah, this isnt some infinite money scheme

[hot marlin]

Let's try to imagine why someone would sell a wish spell then!

[fossil hollow]

cant use it themselves

[hot marlin]

Wait are we talking about someone who is selling a wish spell scroll or someone who is a spellcaster able to cast wish and willing to be paid for casting it for someone else?

For the scroll, it's easy. If it's someone who can't use the scroll or someone who lost the ability to cast wish, then selling it is a good idea.

[fossil hollow]

lets explore either route

[hot marlin]

If it's someone who sells a casting of the spell, it's obviously a powerful archmage of some kind. So first off, that person would only accept to cast it to duplicate other spells.

But even then... That just seems like a normal thing for an archmage to do, isn't it? You're not going to need your ninth level slot every day, so why not prepare wish and accept to use it if someone offers you enough money for it?

[echo meteor]

if your a wizard that can cast 9th level spell, if guess youd have much better things to do then to prepare a 9th level wish scroll

[hot marlin]

A scroll, yeah, maybe. Although, again, you could make a fortune selling those so is it really a waste of your time? Especially if the other things you have to do require that fortune

[fossil hollow]

Wish is a neat little thing to have in your back pocket in case of emergencies

[echo meteor]

probably, considering you’re probably rolling in money.

also, crafting a scroll that you know isn’t that much cheaper than buying one for some reason

[fossil hollow]

You dont stay a rich mage by turning down any chance for easy money

[hot marlin]

Yes, you are rolling in money. And one of the ways you earned that money might be selling wish scrolls

More than money there is also the soft power that comes from being known as the person who makes those scrolls

Knowing rich and powerful people is its own kind of superpower

[echo meteor]

well, it’s more expensive to make one than to buy one

[hot marlin]

No it's not. The seller decides the price.

[amber wigeon]

Hmmmm

@daring perch

I’m here to torture you

[daring perch]

no

[arctic bobcat]

lizard folk or giant spiders

[hushed mason]

Lizardfolk!

Why pick just one? How about Lizardfolk riding on giant spiders.

[fossil hollow]

instead of eating spiders, they ride the spiders

[harsh hollow]

We are apparently getting an AMA soon, I can't imagine some of the Anything won't be people at least trying to ask about new releases.

[hot marlin]

Why "instead"? Once your mount dies, you eat it, that's just common sense

[hollow stone]

unless it dies of an infectious disease ofc

or at least not the infected flesh

[hot reef]

Depending on the setting it may not be a good idea to arm a large number of other people with a 9th level spell

[sleek sentinel]

Hi All

[meager fractal]

Hi

[harsh hollow]

"I wish for double the amount of existing Wish scrolls."

[hot marlin]

Your wish fails. Roll that percentage dice

[oak grotto]

Some random wizard gets a lot of spell scrolls. The wizard is a careful and wise person so nothing happens.

[hot marlin]

And since when has a thing "not being a good idea" ever stopped anyone?

[oak grotto]

Better yet... your current amount of spell scrolls of wish doubles. Which is 0.

[harsh hollow]

I said double the number that exist, not double the number I have. :3c

[oak grotto]

Tell that to the gods.

[harsh hollow]

If the god is a DM the battle of semantics will be legendary.

[remote wadi]

Something not being the first time

[oak grotto]

The wish spell is a spell where DMs are encouraged to take liberties after all. If the DM doesn't like your wish it is more than ok for them to twist your words.

[harsh hollow]

I'd hope they'd at least take a funnier route. x3

[oak grotto]

Ehh, not a fan of games where people focus on being funny.

[harsh hollow]

You get Spell Scrolls of Wish (That The Spell Worked).

It doesn't have to be quips nonstop but being funny sometimes isn't a crime.

[oak grotto]

I agree.

[hot marlin]

I prefer serious tones. Characters making jokes is one thing. The world itself accomodating to those jokes is another

[harsh hollow]

If you're not going to grant a wish it just fizzling out without at least some kind of twist is narratively unsatisfying though.

Sometimes life is funny.

[hot marlin]

Sometimes narratively unsatisfying things happen. And I would say it's a good thing.

Not everything must be narratively satisfying. Unsatisfaction is just as important, perhaps even more.

And this may seem strange but I honestly do not believe stories have an obligation to deliver narrative satisfaction on a platter.

In fact I think the best stories force you to create your satisfaction.

[harsh hollow]

I think this equates narrative satisfaction with a story having setbacks, which I don't think are the same thing.

[hot marlin]

No it does not equate them. It equates narrative satisfaction with narrative satisfaction.

[harsh hollow]

Getting Wish is usually a considerable effort, monkey's pawing the result is a lot more fun than just saying "no".

[hot marlin]

Yes, but do we have to be fun? Is it always better to be fun than to be unfun? I'd argue no.

[hot reef]

or just granting the wish if it's plausible

[hot marlin]

I sincerely believe that being unfun is sometimes a lot better than being fun

[harsh hollow]

It's a game. Yes it's supposed to be fun.

[barren panther]

I do try my best to be fun when I’m running D&D, yes

[harsh hollow]

You might find unsatisfying twists and ungratifying results personally fun but if that's all you want to do it feels like you're forgetting the players. Write a book at that point.

[hot marlin]

Yes. But being unfun is sometimes more fun than being fun

[harsh hollow]

To you, but you have to remember the players.

[hot marlin]

Because here there are two definitions of "fun" that are being conflated

[hot marlin]

I am a player though. I remember myself and I remember my fellow player. And when I DM I also remember the players. I still stand by my point

[severe rampart]

Unfun? how unfun?

[harsh hollow]

You risk losing yourself in pretension though, which is the vibe I'm getting from this. Sometimes it's fun to just have an expectation rather than subverting them all the time.

If all you do is twists they stop being twists.

[hot reef]

prioritizing fun over long term satisfaction and enjoyment can be an issue

[hot marlin]

Essentially what is "fun"? In one definition it's "a good game". It's large and nebulous. Of course the game needs to be good. But in another it means "light hearted and positive" or "funny". And conflating those two meanings results in confusion.

[harsh hollow]

If you neglect fun for the sake of subverting expectations you can also create an issue.

[hot marlin]

So being "unfun" in the sense of being non-positive, not lighthearted, in denying stupid things like big wishes and just saying no to them leads to more "fun" in the sense of it being a good game.

[severe rampart]

I take the former

[hot marlin]

Did someone say anything about expectations being subverted?

Did someone even say anything about expectations?

[severe rampart]

Honestly, it's also those unfun moments like technical difficulties or you rolling very badly in combat that you can look back on and enjoy

[harsh hollow]

I'm not saying things only have to be good and fun but if you linger too much in the unfun it starts becoming too much of a slog to want to walk with the DM through the more somber moments.

[hot reef]

"Monkey's Paw" is also commonly misunderstood
It isn't just the wish going wrong. It's the wish succeeding, and the wisher even potentially getting what they want, but in an ironic way that makes them regret it
It's a "what have I done", not a "I think god misheard me"

[oak grotto]

As much as some of the preferences of certain players physically hurt me I can't do anything about it. And I shouldn't try to. Some people like stupid goofy games.

[harsh hollow]

Even that result has a lot more interesting narrative potential than just "No. Anyway, moving on."

[severe rampart]

Too much of anything is a bad thing, you can say that about nearly anything "Too much combat is bad" "too much roleplay is bad"

[hot marlin]

Yes, more interesting narrative potential, absolutely. But regardless "No. Anyway, moving on" can still be the right option regardless of the fact that it's less interesting and has less potential

Potential I don't want is a hindrance, not a benefit.

[rough basalt]

I tend to avoid the dark themes I wanna employ but I'm looking to start changing that.

[severe rampart]

misplaced a comma now I'm a suspect in three homicide cases

[hot marlin]

In the long-term, unexplored potential is akin to a tumor on the body of a story

[hot reef]

most of the time, if a PC casts wish in a way where the DM can fairly completely twist it, it's going to be a one shot and/or a lighthearted game. And in that scenario just saying "No." has humorous potential
(I believe that's what the Lady of Pain can do?)

[severe rampart]

Really? for a session I'm planning on using their dead npc friend buddy as the face of a flesh golem they have to kill

[oak grotto]

Sometimes we have to realize that someone's style of playing or DMing won't work for us.

[rough basalt]

I feel like if I go as dark as I want, it won't be fun.

Even tho it's easy to break up the monotony

[severe rampart]

maybe that's something you could discuss with your players?

[hot marlin]

Do the thing you want to do no matter what. Tell the players what you want to do. If they don't want it, find players who will want it. Don't force yourself to do something you don't want to do

It may sound strange for D&D but it's a matter of artistic integrity. Make the world you want to make, not the world you feel forced to make.

[rough basalt]

Like themes I wanna employ for my upcoming game are stuff like blood magic, desperation, collective guilt.

[oak grotto]

What's stopping you?

[hot marlin]

And yeah. Say no. Knowing how to say no to the players is one of the most important skills a DM needs. The whole "always say yes and" thing is a toxic mentality that ruins games

[hot reef]

As long as you aren't switching a campaign for an existing group, it's fine to run whatever you want

[rough basalt]

Ig nothing at the moment.

Just nerves

Tho it's not like my Monday game is all sunshine and rainbows

[oak grotto]

As Ti-Moth has said before communication is key.

[severe rampart]

To quote a nike commercial "Just Do It!", what could go wrong?

[rough basalt]

It's clear that the party is in a rather broken country where everywhere outside a town isn't safe.

[hot reef]

I know there are plenty of players who really like those types of games

[hot marlin]

Now make the towns unsafe too

And yeah it's a thing that always bothers me about D&D discourse. The whole confusion around the term "fun". Once I was in a conversation and, if I recall correctly, someone was asking for advice about how to treat the situation where the PCs had locked themselves in a room and a group of goblins were outside waiting. I said the right decision is to have the goblins besiege the PCs. Beat on drums to prevent them from sleeping. Get a ballista pointed right at the door to shoot once the PCs open the doors and try to get out. Avoid melee, stay at a distance and prepare to turn the PCs into pincushion. Be as far away as possible while preventing access to other exits so that you can shoot them without them getting into melee. Make covers.

And someone said "it's not fun". And I keep wondering: What does fun even mean?

[rough basalt]

I'll get a discord info channel up for my upcoming game, with some trigger warnings to let people know ahead of time if they want out.
I do have an X-Card module in foundry for safety reasons because I wanna delve into more darker stuff.

[hot marlin]

Thinking in terms of "fun" is a bad idea I think.

[rough basalt]

There's some themes that I just straight up will never use anyways.

[hot marlin]

Even games are not meant to be "fun", they're meant to be the game they are. Whether you find that fun is up to you

[rough basalt]

Yeah like Souls-likes aren't mindless fun.
Tho some certainly can be played as such.
A lot focus on rewarding persistence, overcoming odds which is a different kind of fun.

[hot marlin]

Exactly. Elden Ring is a game that forces you to overcome. Space Marine 2 in comparison is laughingly easy and mindless. Both are good games.

[rough basalt]

Even Elden Ring, with enough research and exploration you can just obliterate most stuff with magic.

If you don't wanna "get good"

[hot marlin]

But some people will find Elden Ring unfun after getting beaten up by Magrit for the twentieth time. Some people will be utterly bored by how easily a single space marine can kill a Carnifex

[rough basalt]

Tho people who learn how to parry Malenia for example experience the fun of rendering an infamously difficult boss helpless.

[hot marlin]

Yeah that's how I ended up beating her. Turns out so many of her attacks are parriable and it turns the fight almost trivial.

[rough basalt]

Way this transfers to dnd is
Someone may find being stuck between a rock and a hard place not fun, but other players might go "hell yeah man. Bring it on"

[hot marlin]

That and throwing ice pots to stop that waterfowl dance before it begins

[harsh hollow]

I don't think it's fun to never have setbacks, I just think to a certain degree that if someone puts a lot of effort into something that turning it into a waste of time might not have the same narrative enjoyment to them that it does to you. For them it truly could just be percived as not getting to play the game.

[rough basalt]

Some people think it's against fun to have setbacks.
Ultimately the point is fun is subjective.

[hot marlin]

Does anyone believe it's against fun to have setbacks?

[harsh hollow]

That'

[rough basalt]

There are people who do believe that

[hot marlin]

I have never met such a person I must say.

[karmic mason]

Not me

unless its already made to be difficult

[hot marlin]

A lot effort? Considering the discussion started about a wish simply not working, I don't see how that's a lot of effort

[rough basalt]

You can see them whenever they say Soulsgames should have a toggleable mode where they don't lose anything on death and enemies/bosses die easily.

[harsh hollow]

Getting to Wish takes a considerable level of time, especially considering there's a chance you could never cast it again.

[rough basalt]

There are people who believe any sort of difficulty is "wrong" they're just mostly quarantined to Twitter, Facebook and Reddit

[hot marlin]

The action is not "getting to wish", the action is "casting a wish" which requires no effort. Certainly no narrative ones.

[harsh hollow]

That's just being obtuse, come on. 9th level spells take quite a while to get to, and it's one you can lose.

[rough basalt]

As a top ranked unemployed I see them every other day.

You can lose if you wish for stuff outside its general scope

Which is fair.

[harsh hollow]

Most people when presented the ability to wish aren't going to use it for a normal spell.

[karmic mason]

there is some narrative Wish that can be done, like using it to get the party out of a situation with the BBEG, or, from a story I remember hearing:

Using revive on armor made of scales harvested from a dead tarasque

[rough basalt]

Then it's on them

[hot marlin]

And yes. The wish fails. And you may lose your ability to cast wish. So what? You knew the risks. If someone gets a high powered magical weapon and then decides to stupidely throw it in a volcano in the hopes that it will gain fire powers and you decide the sword is simply destroyed, who is responsible?

I'd say the person responsible is the person who took the idiotic decision to throw their sword in a volcano, knowing the risks

[rough basalt]

Decisions have results and consequences.

[karmic mason]

The player for throwing the sword into the volcano is 99% responsible, and you're 1% responsible for trusting them with the weapon

you should have thought that they would probably lose it in a stupid way eventually

[harsh hollow]

The DM has a direct hand in these results though, and I personally think twisting the wish in some fashion if it's not something you feel comfortable directly granting is more interesting than just saying no.

[rough basalt]

Wish in 5e is actually pretty considerate compared to the Wish in an OSR based off dnd system I picked up.

You either cast it, or you fail and can potentially cause a rip in reality killing everyone.

[harsh hollow]

It could even still be a setback in and of itself, I just think "No, but" is more interesting than just plain "no".

[rough basalt]

Sometimes "No" is just the right answer.

[harsh hollow]

Sometimes, but not always.

[rough basalt]

"I wish for the world to be bright and peaceful again!"
"Alright party, you watch as your ally turns into a baby."

[hot marlin]

Again: Do you have to be more interesting? I don't think so. I think sometimes being less interesting is better for the game.

[karmic mason]

There is ways I can think of twisting the wish, making it somewhat similar, but not monkeys paw levels of it

Defeat the BBEG: The wish tries to defeat them, but only weakens them severely
Teleportation: The teleport is separated and each player is around 100 feet away from each other
Riches:A chest appears somewhere near them that, while containing riches, is very fragile

[hot marlin]

Yes it is more interesting. But I would even go as far as to say that the fact that it's more interesting to twist it can be an argument against twisting it

[rough basalt]

I straight up personally have changes to the Wish spell in games in my homebrew setting.
It's pretty much strictly to copy spells

[karmic mason]

Are these bad ideas?

[rough basalt]

This is cause a guy used a Wish spell and destroyed most of the world so Goddess of Magic vac banned Wishing outside your scope.

Some other God made the wish happen, she tried to stop it.

[karmic mason]

sora please answer

[rough basalt]

I dunno

[harsh hollow]

I get wanting there to be valleys and slower moments but I don't know if I can get behind the idea of fighting to make things less interesting overall.

[rough basalt]

Sounds decent

Letting things get out of control in the name of interesting can be detrimental.

[karmic mason]

if you work hard for a wish, you don't want it to just null and void the entire climactic fight

but at the same time you don't want it to be useless

[rough basalt]

That's why the basic replication exists.

[karmic mason]

Hence, the BBEG change

[hot marlin]

If you don't want your wish to be useless, don't formulate your wish in a way that might result in it being useless

[harsh hollow]

That's subjective though, since to a degree that's up to the DM.

[hot marlin]

You already have the ability to cast any spell of 8th level of lower by using wish. This should be more than enough for your wish to meaningfully turn the battle in your favour.

[karmic mason]

if you want to use wish for teleportation, then make sure that your dm doesn't teleport you to the entire opposite place you wanted

[hot marlin]

Thankfully, the rules for teleport already handle that.

[rough basalt]

Teleportation would just be a replication.

[harsh hollow]

They can only twist it if you don't use it for a regular spell.

[karmic mason]

Yup

[rough basalt]

Some DMs always twist it but that's cringe and not intended.

[karmic mason]

so like, wishes such as making riches, defeating someone, or just other broad spectrums?

[karmic mason]

...just make it a monkeys paw at that point

[harsh hollow]

Yeah, Wish can either replicate any 8th level or lower spell or try to do Anything but the DM can twist or refuse it and potentially you lose the spell forever.

[fossil hollow]

lizards are bit predator of spiders and insects

[rough basalt]

"I wish the Tarrasque away"
"Alright it's gone."
Tarrasque appears above major city hundreds of miles away

[hot marlin]

You'll that most of those ideas can be handled by duplicating a spell.

[karmic mason]

i could probably do some insane stuff with wish that work once and then the DM stops me from ever using Wish again

[harsh hollow]

See like that's an interesting twist because you technically got what you wanted but have different problems. It moves things forward and has the potential for lasting consquences that change the trajectory of things forever. That's interesting, I personally find that fun.

[rough basalt]

And you have to deal with wish sickness so 1 in 3 chance of losing it

[hot marlin]

Making riches? Cast Creation at eighth level, creating a cube of gold or other precious thing. Defeating someone? Cast Disintegrate.

[karmic mason]

Like using Wish to make armor smaller, basically killing someone with their own gear

[harsh hollow]

Again that's something regular spells can do.

[karmic mason]

god why is 90% of stuff just already covered by spells

[harsh hollow]

Enlarge/Reduce.

Usually the non-spell version of Wish is to do things that are like... campaign warpingly-impossible. Change time and space, that kind of thing.

[karmic mason]

we already have making stuff lighter

is making stuff heavier handled?

[harsh hollow]

Graviturgy spells can do that, I think?

[karmic mason]

damn alright uhhh

[harsh hollow]

At the very least you can lock something in place to an insanely high level of weight.

[karmic mason]

turning someone inside out I don't know

[karmic mason]

Basically just C-Moon but the entire body

[pallid oracle]

give me a spell that will help me find love

[rough basalt]

The spell fails

[pallid oracle]

the sword coast is brutal

[karmic mason]

The monkeys paw curls:You're a narcissist and you only love yourself

[harsh hollow]

Or you find a dangerous monster named Love that kills you.

[hot marlin]

At the end of the day, I rarely twist wishes. I think the superior way is to either allow them to work as is, or straight up saying no. I guess it could be formulated as "If you take a stupid risk when a safe option exists, I will not reward your creativity, I will punish your lack of efficiency."

[rough basalt]

I've never had someone cast wish when I'm in the dm seat

[harsh hollow]

It's a creativity-driven game though.

[karmic mason]

I mean, you did wanna find love

therefore you found love in yourself

[rough basalt]

Sorry but you ain't using Wish to make a nuke.

[hot marlin]

It is. But I think the fact that TTRPGs are creativity-driven is an argument for punishing bad creativity rather than encouraging it.

[karmic mason]

...by making yourself impossible to stand to everyone else

[pallid oracle]

i think the thing about wish is if the player makes a wish that makes their character OP in some way then that character becomes a NPC 🙂

[fickle heart]

Would you consider it twisting a wish for a threat to be teleported far away as opposed to eliminated if the wish was for them to be "sent away"?

[karmic mason]

There's a wish idea I have that I don't think would go well but would be weird

Asking the DM one question

[harsh hollow]

If people don't get to try out ideas without getting punished they're not going to try to be creative, this doesn't seem like a very healthy mindset.

[rough basalt]

If the creativity is healthy for the game, I'll ponder it at least

[karmic mason]

Not as a player, but as the character

[hot marlin]

I said I "rarely" twist wishes. This is a fine one, I would say. Because it's not actually a twist, is it? That's literally the most basic interpretation of the wish.

[hot marlin]

But it is balanced by another rule: Heavily reward good creativity.

[fickle heart]

That was kinda my own thought process. Maybe a better wording would be for them to "disappear".

[hot marlin]

... It would take a lot to resist just giving the target true invisibility I must say.

[karmic mason]

"I want the dragon to be sent to hell!"

and it drops on Hell, the fair village on the coast

[pallid oracle]

it all depends on the wish and the intentions of the wish, if a player is making a wish that actively ruins the game in some way it should be discouraged but if the wish is something thats thoughtful or used in a way thats a benefit then it should be allowed. DnD is a team effort where each individual is participating in a story. Anyone geniunely making a wish that ruins the game for everyone should have their wishes backfire, regardless of creativity.

[harsh hollow]

Creativity is subjective though, so I worry it would end up being less about how creative it actually is at some point and just end up being how much you like what happens.

[hot marlin]

At the end of the day, the world of a TTRPG works by encouraging certain behaviours that fit with the world, and discouraging behaviours that don't. This is how the themes and rules of the game are enforced and learned.

[fickle heart]

Like, my own thoughts are that twisting a wish is specifically taking the wording and creating a result that isn't intuitively resulting from the wording.

[pallid oracle]

hey we said the same thing, twinsies!

sounds like a good take to me

[harsh hollow]

That's what I would say, yeah. The DM also gets to be creative here too in how things are twisted.

[karmic mason]

"I want to become a god!"

"Alright, you've now become a god. Have fun with making sure you never are forgotten or you lose everything."

[fickle heart]

I also do agree there is "bad creativity", which is largely enabled as such so that people can seemingly go against the grain of the game itself.

E.g. "I want to build a nuke" is bad creativity. "I want to open a flower shop" is bad creativity (in the sense that you aren't going to get to play that PC anymore, so if that's fine, it's not bad). I could think of more examples but I think that's enough.

[pallid oracle]

"Oh and watch out for the other Gods that will absorb you!"

[karmic mason]

Is it considered good creativity by substituting my rogue having a low strength by using poison and acid on his arrows and swords?

[hot marlin]

Considering that it took a 12th level spell to turn someone into a god, and that failed, I would have that wish failed without second thoughts. Wish is only a ninth level spell

[fickle heart]

I see that as utilitarianism within the world, personally.

[karmic mason]

wait huh

[pallid oracle]

Yeah hes right. The whole lore of why there are no longer level 10 11 and 12th spells and whatnot

[fickle heart]

It's not creative, just smart.

[harsh hollow]

I guess in my mind the use for the non-replicating form of Wish would be like, backstory-related things. A moment of selfishness where you try to make it so someone never died without thinking of the butterfly effect, that kind of thing.

[pallid oracle]

Actually, if someone made a wish saying "I wish my mother never died" could be an excellent opprotunity to turn the entire world upside down.

[hot marlin]

And that is an earnest wish. I may refuse it, I may accept it if I can think of a story I want to play with that wish. Though I would have to ask: Is there a reason you're not just using resurrection?

[harsh hollow]

Something you'd have to twist because at base you'd have to rewrite the campaign.

[hot marlin]

Uh, look Barry Allen, we all know that did not turn out well

[pallid oracle]

Exactly but Flashpoint had a interesting narrative yk? Depending on the game, you could go the route.

[karmic mason]

Barry Allen, Back To the Future, and Meet the Robinsons

All lessons on:Time travel sucks honestly

[harsh hollow]

I was thinking not in a "bring them back to life" way where you ressurect them now. As in like altering time so it just never happened at all.

[fickle heart]

See, my issue with this is that the player should also recognize when a wish likely needs to be twisted and act accordingly.

[hot marlin]

But what determines whether or not I would have the wish "I wish my mother never died" work or not is mainly whether or not I can fit the consequences of that within the campaign without it becoming some plot tumor.

And by "tumor" I mean a non-functional body part that draws nutriments away from the rest of the body, and prevents it from working correctly.

[harsh hollow]

Exactly, you'd have to twist that. But I think how you twist it could be great backstory and campaign potential as you build around it.

I guess I see Wish less as a utility and more of a plot device.

That isn't something that you can just drop on the DM of course.

But it has potential.

[fickle heart]

I think therein lies the issue.

[hot marlin]

Is it really a twist? If I accept the wish, I am stopping the session now because I need to rewrite a history where the mother never died. Maybe that character never became an adventurer. Maybe every character is in a very different place in their life. Maybe my antagonist will be a time dragon here to set things back on track, or a time dragon here to prevent the timeline from being restored.

But am I "twisting" it? Those are the normal consequences of the wish.

It's all pretty foreseeable

[harsh hollow]

If it doesn't work exactly as asked for it's twisted, at least how I'm seeing it.

And I'd figure you have to change the result because you can't just rewrite the entire campaign.

[hot marlin]

But it does work exactly as asked. The mother never died.

Essentially I can make a few "Flashpoint" sessions that would be a character study of that other timeline. It would inevitably end with the timeline being restored and this being an interlude.

But most of the times? Yeah, no. I won't fit that into the campaign

[fickle heart]

I will say that I would disagree with the earlier-made comments about narrative satisfaction, with the caveat that I think always being satisfied with a narrative is itself something that causes a lot of dissatisfaction long-term.

[harsh hollow]

Honestly it'd be pretty fun as an interesting interlude, but I was more just thinking it would affect the character's backstory moving forward in a different way than usual.

[hot marlin]

Again, I want the story protected from plot tumors. Whether or not that wish creates a plot tumor depends on the situation of the campaign

[fickle heart]

"Wish granted. This iteration of the campaign is over, everyone roll new characters" is narratively satisfying but very dissatisfying play-wise.

[hot marlin]

And I will say that "narrative satisfaction" is a relational property, not an intrinsic one. Something is narratively satisfying for someone, not in a vacuum.

[harsh hollow]

The point I was trying to make overall is that improvising unforeseen consequences has a lot more interesting potential than shutting everything down outright.

[fickle heart]

But is that not an unforeseen consequence?

[rough basalt]

Shutting down outright is sometimes the right answer.

[hot marlin]

And the point I was making is that just because something has interesting potential does not mean you should do it. That sometimes the fact that something has interesting potential is an argument against doing it

[still plover]

Just to throw my two coppers down: if you've got a big wish in mind, please talk with the DM ahead of time about it.

[fickle heart]

Might be a semantics thing, but at this point in time, I largely take "narratively satisfying" to mean it satisfies the narrative, but not necessarily those engaging with the narrative.

[harsh hollow]

Oh yeah no, as I said it's not something you should just drop on the DM. It should probably be in initial backstory planning if it's something you want.

[hot marlin]

That changes things a bit, but not so much. There is still a huge amount of subjectivity involved

But yes, under this definition of narrative satisfaction, that would change my point a bit

[near quiver]

hello

[rough basalt]

It wouldn't be satisfying for other players if the Wizard wishes for 30s in all stats and gets what he wants for example.

[fickle heart]

I feel like I approach stories much more from the perspective of the story itself these days, as opposed to my own viewpoint on the story.

There might be times where I am very bored in a session, but I recognize my boredom is actually necessary for the story to proceed naturally.

The thing about boredom in a session is that said boredom allows you to put excitement into context.

[hot marlin]

That reminds me of that goblin argument I had, where I advised having the goblins use siege tactics. The person who disagreed with me said something like "it's not fun to spend your turn just moving towards the enemy and then it's over".

And... Yeah, maybe? But the fact that it's not fun is good.

[rough basalt]

Makes when you get to them and bash their heads in more satisfying

[hot marlin]

What's more satisfying than learning to dodge Waterfowl Dance after getting annihilated by it twenty times? Stopping it from happening in the first place, maybe.

[harsh hollow]

I was thinking of it in a more broad sense of a situation where the DM and the players are on a different page leading to their efforts being wasted. I understand that stories can have lulls and you don't always get what you want but if that keeps happening it can make the experience stop being fun as a player.

[fickle heart]

There are times I want to be frustrated playing D&D, because if I'm frustrated, it means I'm engaging in the game on a very intimate level.

[harsh hollow]

Why try anything if the answer keeps being no?

[hot marlin]

Did anyone say that the answer should keep being no?

[fickle heart]

I think sometimes that the answer being "no" should make one look to determine if that should have been obvious from the question, and I'd view that much broader than Wish.

[rough basalt]

Like if a player wants to wish that the Evil Empress loves their PC cause "I can fix her" then you're getting a flat no.
To show an example of what would be a reasonable flat no situation.

[harsh hollow]

I think the disagreement isn't about saying no sometimes but more in the when and how. It can be no of course, but I again I personally find thinking on your feet with "no, but" is more interesting.

[harsh hollow]

Yeah, I'm not arguing it shouldn't ever happen. Just the context in which is happens.

[hot marlin]

There are plenty of enchantment spells that can get you an effect similar enough to that. Why not just use wish to mimic those spells?

[rough basalt]

The four weapons in a DMs arsenal.
Yes, Yes and, No, but and No.

[lavish flame]

"can't wish for love" is a classic rule for wishes

[rough basalt]

Cause the player didn't think that out

They were too focused on the black haired red eyed beauty

That sits on a throne of bodies

[harsh hollow]

I just think "No, but" should be used more often than flat no, but of course there are exceptions.

[fickle heart]

The reason I'm not a huge fan of "no, but" when it's used to throw a bone for the players is that it often reduces their own contributions to the game.

[snow heart]

Guys,My friends take d&d a bit too seriously.They play daily for 8 hours!Yes!And I feel excluded.They are at the library or the basement or the forest and talk in mystical languge like-
“The void dragon escaped.Lets retry”
And I have no idea what they are talking about.So,Please I am here to learn about it.Help me

[harsh hollow]

This isn't the Fairly Odd Parents, that's not an actual rule of Wish.

[hot marlin]

Well, in those circumstances, I see three ways I could go with a wish like that:
First is me telling the player "Just use wish to duplicate an enchantment spell"
Second is me having the wish fail
Third is me having the wish change the character into someone the empress would fall in love with. A brutal, bloodthirsty NPC.

[rough basalt]

The third one is pretty funny

[harsh hollow]

That third one has potential, I like it.

[hot marlin]

I would avoid the third but damn would I be tempted.

[fickle heart]

That's not to say that "no, but..." is bad, but that it feels like I'm not succeeding of my own volition and I'm instead getting my hand held towards success.

[lavish flame]

I really feel like "you can't wish for love" is more an Aladdin thing but this works too.

[harsh hollow]

The "but" doesn't have to be in your favor, is the thing.

[rough basalt]

It's often what's argued for with the "no but"

[harsh hollow]

Bad things happening is still narratively interesting.

Oh yeah, I wasn't arguing for there not to be consquences. Just the "but" being an interesting new direction.

[hot marlin]

Disney's Aladdin even. Necessary for the plot. And doesn't make much sense considering all those people the genie made as prince Ali's court clearly love prince Ali

[rough basalt]

"You shouldn't penalize players, a good dm never says no, only No, but!" Is part of the bad advice that led to the new dmg having a player behavior section.

[fickle heart]

I often see people argue that the "no" should come with a caveat that is aimed towards pacifying the request.

[harsh hollow]

Oh no no no, the "but" being bad is honestly even more interesting than failing forward.

[rough basalt]

Like "no you can't wish the Tarrasque away, but it is actually away so good job. clap"

[hot marlin]

Oh another option: The Empress is in love with you. She wants to kill you and get you taxidermied.

[rough basalt]

That's another good one

Or she's head over heels, and now she wants her rivals (the party) dead and expects her lover to join her.

[fickle heart]

Even so, I think "no" should be more frequent than "no, but..." because otherwise the players can learn behavior where interesting things happen when they do something clearly dumb.

[harsh hollow]

I think there's a fine line between interesting and dumb for sure, but that it's still a more interesting direction than being shut down.

[fickle heart]

It's interesting in a bad way, yeah.

[rough basalt]

"I try to jump across the canyon."
"Alright you die."
"You're supposed to yes and! A good DM always fails forward!"
"Alright, yes you jump, and you die"

[hot marlin]

And I maintain that just because something is interesting does not mean it's good. That sometimes interesting is bad and must be avoided.

All plot tumors are interesting. And plot tumors must be avoided at all cost

[limber trail]

I don't have the full context, and of course sometimes there are chances to "no, but" and that works and is awesome - sometimes something just isn't possible. Sometimes you can't "no, but" your way through asking a king for their kingdom

[fickle heart]

It's not interesting in the sense that it brings actual narrative satisfaction. It's interesting in the sense that the player is possibly no longer bored and was able to get their fix.

[rough basalt]

Basically you should "no but" Out of Scope wish spells more

[harsh hollow]

If you try you get arrested, and now the direction is a prison break. Potentially more interesting and difficult than just talking your way into what you needed to know.

[fickle heart]

"What whacky adventures will the group get into next?" <- Not a good thing inherently.

[hot marlin]

To add to Tamms' point: There are three kinds of interesting.

• Interesting because it creates more interest to the existing narrative
• Interesting because it creates a new narrative
• Interesting because it gives a player their fix

[rough basalt]

Personally, I'm just throwing the one PC in jail and the party can decide whether they wanna free them.

[radiant stone]

Hi everyone, I was wondering if i could have some help regarding character sheets from anyone?

[harsh hollow]

Part of the fun of DnD is the possiblity of unintended directions. Even if you have a plot in mind it's not supposed to be strictly on rails.

[hot marlin]

First one must be privileged. Second one is risky. Third one must go right to hell to burn for multiple eternities of suffering, begging for the merciful release of a death that will never come.

[limber trail]

I don't fully disagree. I usually think when someone wishes for something out of scope of a wish spell, I point them towards a RAW usage of wish that works better. One player wished their party all got the benefits of a long rest, in the middle of combat. We talked it down to, everyone regaining their full HP

[harsh hollow]

It's a narrative game.

[rough basalt]

It's also not whatever players wanna do

[harsh hollow]

Narratives that you aren't entirely writing yourself can change.

[fickle heart]

It's not about the plot, it's about the game patterns.

[rough basalt]

It's whatever players wanna do within the confines of what you're running.

[harsh hollow]

If you want it to absolutely never change and never improvise you might be better served writing a book.

[fickle heart]

If I, the player, am affirmed in thinking me being bored is something the DM has to fix, I can lose sight that I am also responsible for making the game fun.

[hot marlin]

"Interesting" is a trap if it stops being "meaningful" I would say.

[rough basalt]

If I'm running a campaign based off Sea of Thieves (fighting Undead pirates, getting treasure) then you're not staying at a pirate port opening a bar permanently and staying in the party. You can either get on the ship or roll a new PC who will sail the seas.

[fickle heart]

This matters because "no, but..." can be a tool that players use as leverage to prevent themselves being bored, regardless of what that actually does to the game.

[hot marlin]

TTRPGs are set in a world. That world has logic, weight, rules and integrity. Player actions must exist within that world. And the world takes precedent over anything else

[rough basalt]

Yeah I've seen a DM who wouldn't say no and it led to a PC having basically an Undead army, an airship and a bunch of stuff for almost no reason.

[crystal nest]

Hence why wishes disrupt that world if not carefully made

[rough basalt]

Kinda why I find Mages magic system funny.
If you try to cast magic that doesn't make sense to the world, you get sent to hell. Or blow yourself up into chunks or other horrifying fates.

[hot marlin]

And yeah. We are, as DMs, training our players. If we reward dumb actions, we train our players to take more dumb and chaotic actions instead of acting within that world and feeling part of that world. It may be "fun", but it is detrimental to the game. And as such it is a kind of fun that must be banned.

[harsh hollow]

I'm not saying they should be able to completely rip up the world but also in a game like this there has to be an expected level of improvisation. They might not go to that cave and you might have to write something else instead.

[rough basalt]

Tornado hits, better take cover.

[fickle heart]

The thing is, I don't think you need to say "no, but..." for improv to happen.

[crystal nest]

Improv doesn't mean reality breaking.

It usually refers to "haha funny acting moment", not "I light Grease on fire in 5e 2014"

[mighty wharf]

You know I am all for giving players consequences for their actions, but if they want to "seduce the baddie" I have no qualms letting them if they genuinely will it to happen and the other players don't have a problem with it. Having player's imagination run wild and letting them do funny and cool stuff is what the game is about. As long as it's not an actively bad thing like murderhoboing or "it's what my character would do", problem players basically. I see no problem. It's a game, you're meant to have fun.

[harsh hollow]

The "but" is the improv though.

[rough basalt]

Fun is subjective.

[fickle heart]

The "but" is the improv assuming the action is worth dignifying with a response.

[harsh hollow]

If it's just "No. Go there, you can't do anything else. Stop trying." I'd feel a bit railroaded and kept from having fun.

[rough basalt]

Personally I don't find the idea of my world being nuked by an artificer cause "nukes are fun, and it's creative" fun so nah, you can either try and create something more reasonable or get out.

[hot marlin]

And that gets me to the question of dopamine. Refusing to say no, creating situations where you accomodate the players in the name of making things interesting creates a dopamine rush that relates well to a society where TikTok and doomscrolling exists. I think we deserve better, as players and as DMs and as audiences. I think pandering to that short-term dopamine rush is disrespectful and harmful.

[rough basalt]

That's when I put you on a train.

[mighty wharf]

Something I'm considering asking my DM is if I could convince a Banshee to possess my arcane focus (a purple sapphire) as a solution to an encounter he wasn't planning on doing. The banshee would absolutely be too much for our party and in world, they can be reasoned with, like shiny things, and live a life trapped.

[rough basalt]

Double down on the rails.

[fickle heart]

The thing is, sometimes this is actually the correct path for a story.

[harsh hollow]

Sometimes is fine, but if it's the only path that's boring.

[rough basalt]

The famous saying "you can't do Curse of Strahd if your PC doesn't wanna go or escape barovia"

[mighty wharf]

Keep in mind it'd either be a party effort to convince the banshee to go with our party, either that or I force it happening rerolling ability checks on my negative charisma.

[fickle heart]

When you say "only", do you mean for the entire duration of the story, or the fact that any individual circumstance has one path?

[harsh hollow]

Again, I'm not saying they should be able to completely break the narrative structure. What they do when they get there should be able to be freeform to some degree though.

[rough basalt]

That's what they get.

As long as they stay within the confines of the campaigns intention, they get the freedom the circumstances allow.

[fickle heart]

I think it might be useful to include some examples here, honestly.

[rough basalt]

For example, my Monday game is a sandbox hexcrawl in a country.
I'd say no to them leaving it, as I haven't properly developed the rest of the world and the game is designed for here. But they can do anything in it.

[harsh hollow]

I'm seeing a lot of "No they can't get rid of the story structure, no they can't nuke the world" but that's not what I'm saying. You know the goblin example from earlier? They could fight the goblins, or if they have a method where they could reasonably sneak they should be able to try.

[rough basalt]

And it's a pretty large country, they haven't even left the south yet.

[harsh hollow]

But a lot of DMs had fighting the goblins in mind only and wouldn't let you do anything else. That's not fun.

[crystal nest]

Mind you, a one-size-fits-all solution doesn't exists

[hot marlin]

Of course. What I advised on the goblin example is how the goblins should respond to the players locking themselves in a room.

How the players respond to that may vary

[rough basalt]

Well in my world if Goblins are sieging your keep then that means they've declared war on you, and you can surrender or fight.

Just how it is sometimes.

[fickle heart]

I think the key word there is "reasonably", yeah.

An example I would use of "no" as opposed to "no, but..." is a situation in which the PCs might be making a terrible mistake that would logically result in a PC being removed from the story by being jailed, as the party has no reasonable way to break them out of jail. It's not necessarily a "no", instead being a "if you accept this consequence, you will need to reroll a new character because you will have to be left behind."

[rough basalt]

Course if you have something incredible to offer their commanding officer, he might have to do a "tactical retreat"

[still plover]

Rerolling Charisma checks until you get the result you want doesn't sound like a thing that would work to me. Your DM may vary.

[crystal nest]

That sounds like "Charisma=mind control" behaviors that are generally a no-go

[rough basalt]

Yeah, to make an example, in my upcoming campaign, there's two fates for those who break city laws and it's permanent Exile from all cities (punishable by death if you return) or you get locked up in a very bad prison that you ain't breaking them out of.

[mighty wharf]

No I mean I have things like the Lucky feat, Silvery Barbs (with roleplay to boot so as to not aggress said banshee) and chronal shift. That kind of rerolling.

[harsh hollow]

And that's fine, I know that "no, but" can't be used in every situation. I just personally find it a more fun angle for it to be tried more often than just plain "no". I think it promotes thinking on your feet and can take things in interesting directions the DM might not have considered if you're given enough room.

[rough basalt]

So you either roll a new PC or that PC never enters a city.

[hot marlin]

There's a point where the person will simply stop listening to you

At the end of the day charisma checks can only happen if your target consents to listening.

[harsh hollow]

Even the latter here could be interesting to play out. Having to use illusion magic or be hidden in containers while you figure out how to fix this.

[mighty wharf]

"Dormamu I've come to bargain"

[rough basalt]

Well it wouldn't be fixable

[fickle heart]

I think the point is that it's not fixable, ye.

[rough basalt]

For petty crimes they just make you work community service.

[hot marlin]

That's the trick with persuasion. It only works if the person consents to be persuaded in the first place

If someone is just a stone wall, you could have 30 charisma, expertise and a dozen buff spells, it still won't amount to anything

[mighty wharf]

The rerolls would be something I do with my character to make sure it happens and add more weight to the scene; I'd ask the DM first to see if he'll make it happen.

[crystal nest]

You must not be fond of people being attached to their characters and/or not Lawful Good characters @rough basalt

[harsh hollow]

Yeah, far too many people think Charisma is charming magic (I think because it's often used by people who could do that).

[rough basalt]

Laws the law.

[fickle heart]

#it'sonlyacrimeifyougetcaught

[rough basalt]

You wanna stab a merchant for not selling you something half off, you're gone.

[mighty wharf]

Well idk if you present a banshee the option to leave her cursed place, maybe to enact revenge on those who wronged her, she might go with you.

[hot marlin]

"Fondness" is not a factor here. This is simply how the world responds to lawbreaking.

And Sora is nicer than I am. Mostly for me it's just hangings or mutilation.

[limber trail]

The world having reasonable consequences is half the fun of playing a character.

[rough basalt]

Like if my Monday group started slaughtering civilians in the city they're based out of, the Dragonknights would just smite the absolute crap out of them.

[hot marlin]

I described a certain part of a city as "constantly bathed in the smell of the hanged corpses of lawbreakers"

[fickle heart]

I should also say that I'm considering the perspective that the PCs should sometimes have to try multiple things to succeed. "No" isn't a shutdown, just a hurdle. It's on the PCs to find what reasonably gets a "yes".

[rough basalt]

And each of them is around cr14 so good luck fighting off dozens of them level 4 party

[harsh hollow]

There are definitely limits to "no, but". I'm not saying people should turn into roving murderers without getting painted into corners.

[hot marlin]

(It's encouraged by the fact that the properties of someone sentenced to death are seized by the state and generally distributed to law enforcement)

[rough basalt]

I mean with cleverness you could probably get to a ship and escape to the sea, but they'd fire cannons at you.
Hope for the best.

Tho that's also assuming the Silver Guardian doesn't snap your ship in half for slaughtering her children.

[harsh hollow]

And honestly that's not wrong either, it just depends on the nature of the "no".

Some DMs truly just have one solution in mind in a situation where several would reasonably be possible and that can be frusturating.

[rough basalt]

It's up to them to think it up

[mighty wharf]

I think this would make for a far more interesting and fun session than say, just brute forcing the banshee and possibly losing a party member because of it. Or not fighting it at all because the DM decides to axe it from the campaign. It's my idea of turning a problematic encounter into a fun one.

[feral fulcrum]

I do sincerely hope this is hyperbole, because that reeks of big Oblivion energy. Picks up a random thing that doesn't belong to them Litteraly every Guard in Existence across the realms "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM!"

[fickle heart]

I think it's also that players sometimes think more solutions are reasonable when they aren't (because they think of the solutions favorably for them), which is equally frustrating.

[mighty wharf]

I don't think every encounter should be a fight. Every BBeG being a boss battle. It's just not narratively interesting.

[rough basalt]

Left out some important context which is that it's for heinous crimes.

Petty crime is community service generally

[harsh hollow]

While I don't disagree, 5e as a whole was designed to be very combat-centric.

[mighty wharf]

Tbf this is a 2014 campaign we are playing, and a banshee is very... uh... restrictive.

[rough basalt]

Then for crimes that sit between petty and heinous, there's usually a town jail, rather than the Sunscorched Keep (name of the hellish prison mentioned)

[crystal nest]

I'm not fond of law enforcement taking every seized property for their personal hoards.

It feels too much like IRL corruption

[rough basalt]

The choice for jail or exile for heinous crimes is more of a pick your Hell kinda situation

[mighty wharf]

Flies 40ft into the air after every attack, has an all or nothing save, you cant move towards it if it hits you with it's horrifying visage. I don't think anyone in my party can run from it either, I think it outspeeds us unless we dash.

It's basically good against every condition but blindness and incapacitation.

[crystal nest]

How does self-defense enter into things?

[mighty wharf]

At best it's an opportunity attack slapfit, at worst it's a TPK.

[rough basalt]

Do you wanna be banished to the scorching/freezing desert full of other Exiles, Monsters and other threats or be stuck in a scorching hot prison with other dangerous criminals where you'll work off your debt.

[mighty wharf]

On our first adventure book, not even a campaign.

[rough basalt]

Zone of Truth, if it was self defense, it's logged as such and you're fine.

[crystal nest]

OK, this is sounding more reasonable

[harsh hollow]

I think that's a case of too strong of an enemy being tossed at you if this if your first time playing. Are you sure you aren't meant to just like... leave where it is? Maybe it's meant to be a deterrent.

[mighty wharf]

I think it's an ambush encounter. The DM said it was random and we got ambushed so far.

[crystal nest]

If this is Phandelver, the party I did the banshee encounter with talked her down & got her to agree to terms for a consensual exorcism

[mighty wharf]

It is too strong of an enemy. We are all new players. Our first enemy was a bone naga that charmed 2 of us before even rolling initiative. I didn't even know to attack would break the charm, which isn't how the charmed condition works by default so it's not really a combat puzzle either.

[harsh hollow]

<Pokemon music starts from the grass.>

[mighty wharf]

Exactly, I think that this encounter wasn't meant to be fought.

[harsh hollow]

I think your DM might just be bad at this, or not like you. Or both.

[still plover]

Sounds rough, all right!

[hoary totem]

When I read this comment I actually started internally playing the Pokemon encounter music

[rough basalt]

Yeah, they don't have any intention on exiling or jailing someone who was only defending themselves.

Least on paper.

[feral fulcrum]

Or they just followed the book, alot of adventure's have some pretty bad encounter design.

[mighty wharf]

Is that the feywilds campaign where you start in the middle of the wilderness with no prep time or time to roleplay really? Without a real plot hook?

[harsh hollow]

I was picturing the nighttime version of the GSC wild Pokemon music specifically.

[crystal nest]

I'd have any property redistributed towards the citizenry, especially the poor & needy, but you do you @rough basalt

[harsh hollow]

Fair, but I feel like to a degree it should be obvious when you're going too hard on new players.

[rough basalt]

I never mentioned property

[crystal nest]

I could have sworn you did. Maybe it was that other person

[rough basalt]

If I had to say what happens to seized property.
It's a split.

[inner silo]

Can a changeling become a kobold?

[crystal nest]

No, it's the OG 5e starter adventure that got made into a full campaign.

The one which had the Redbrands

[rough basalt]

The government keeps any magic items or anything potentially dangerous then the property or properties themselves go to the public.

[harsh hollow]

They can be small now, so I'd say so.

[inner silo]

Okay, thanks!

[solar nebula]

should i multiclass out of rogue? if yes, after 3rd level, 5th level or later?

[crystal nest]

They could form the shape of, but none of the special powers of, one

[knotty pasture]

After 3rd level ideally

[feral fulcrum]

They don't even need to be small, they can just shape shift between small and medium creatures

[glass granite]

What do you want to multiclass for?
And what version

[still plover]

Into what?

[solar nebula]

fighter

[knotty pasture]

What Rogue subclass did you go for

[glass granite]

Interesting, and what are you aiming to get from fighter? Action surge, armor prof, etc.

[feral fulcrum]

Depends on if the DM rules whether or not the tail of a Kobold counts for the "Same arrangement of limbs" Bit in the Changling text.

[mighty wharf]

Be a rogue artificer, stealth tank that makes Solid Snake stealth doodads

[harsh hollow]

Ahh, gotcha. Might still be worth going for the 2024 version though, because they get advantage on all Charisma saves when transformed.

[knotty pasture]

(For the record don't do that)

[solar nebula]

yeah action surge, mainly more damage

[knotty pasture]

Assassin Rogue does this best

[glass granite]

You’d be better off getting more rogue levels in my mind

[inner silo]

Right! Will be a tailless changeling then most likely

[knotty pasture]

Mono Rogue has poor scaling and can benefit from multiclassing out

[glass granite]

True, but for fighter?
I don’t think two levels for action surge is worth it

[feral fulcrum]

GOnna be honest, Action Surge isn't that helpful for damage unless you've got Extra Attack.

[knotty pasture]

I would go 3 Rogue 17 Fighter or something lol

[solar nebula]

ive heard i can also do the ready attack i think thats what its called in fighter so that i can stealth attack twice per round? im probably wrong

[glass granite]

Also are you playing on 2014 or 2024 rules
And yeah you can, once per rest

[solar nebula]

2024

[knotty pasture]

What Rogue subclass did you pick

[solar nebula]

didnt really pick one but probably assassin

[knotty pasture]

Assassin feeds on nuke damage and should be your go to

[feral fulcrum]

Readying an Action means you're not acting on your turn, (Unless you're using a sepreate, second action, and Action Surge is only ONCE per day.)

[glass granite]

Then my personal recommendation is two levels in sorcerer for quickened spell booming blade/true strike (allowing you to do smt similar)
I don’t think it’s optimal tho…

[mighty wharf]

This reminds me of a reddit thread for a broken build where you polymorph into a huge creature and then Manipulate Form the stats onto your character permanently and you just do this infinitely to achieve god status at like level 3 or something. You wouldn't happen to be actually planning on doing this in a real campaign, would you?

[glass granite]

Isn’t Action surge back on a short rest?

[feral fulcrum]

Ah, it is indeed back on a Short rest. I was misremebering.

[glass granite]

Still, I don’t think it’s worth it

[feral fulcrum]

Still, it's only once a fight which is...bad for damage if it's just a singular attack.

[inner silo]

I just want to mask myself as a kobold as i think a bunch of people could notice my character being a changeling if they're a usual race but no-one would think so on the kobold

[harsh hollow]

Sadly new Action Surge can't be used for spells. :<

[glass granite]

I think that’s for the best personally

[harsh hollow]

Maybe go for a goblin?

[feral fulcrum]

Definitely not Sadly. It needed that clarification

[inner silo]

Thankfully rather

[knotty pasture]

Not that Fighter is the best dip for a spellcaster

[feral fulcrum]

FAR too many two level dips for Spell Spam

[harsh hollow]

It probably did but it was pretty satisfying to do a flurry of spells sometimes.

[inner silo]

That's a good option too

[solar nebula]

sooo should i multiclass into fighter?

[glass granite]

I wouldn’t

[knotty pasture]

Do it

Mono Rogue has poor scaling if you ever do feel like you want to push for more damage

[mighty wharf]

They REALLY hated on doing more than one spell a turn

[harsh hollow]

Also in spite of all logic faries are small rather than tiny.

[solar nebula]

mono rogue?

[glass granite]

No multiclassing rogue

[knotty pasture]

As in going 20 levels in Rogue

[solar nebula]

oh nah im definitely not doing that

[inner silo]

I wouldn't be able to fly though as I can't get other races abilities

[knotty pasture]

You can mix and match a lot of stuff as Rogue but for simplicity's sake just do 3 Rogue 17 Fighter

[mighty wharf]

That's not a rogue anymore...

[knotty pasture]

If it sneak attacks its a Rogue

[solar nebula]

idrk if we will get to that level

[knotty pasture]

Or 3 Rogue rest Fighter, depends on how far your campaign goes

[mighty wharf]

LOL

[harsh hollow]

Ahh, that's fair. Three foot tall fairies are still haunting to me though. That's just a hovering halfling.

[solar nebula]

i think ill do 5 in rogue instead, i dont need to be the most powerful in the party

[inner silo]

Rogues get some amazing abilities even on later levels after 3, especially if your campaign isn't combat combat combat

[glass granite]

Personally I really like reliable talent, so I’d go straight to level 7

But if it’s damage you want after 3 or 5 works

[undone rain]

If i was to play a rogue that goes for more range/archery what subclass should i use

[knotty pasture]

Does Rogue get anything meaningful at 5 again

[solar nebula]

i mainly chose rogue for consistent damage and also to be useful to the party, pickpocketing etc

[knotty pasture]

Assassin probably

[undone rain]

Assassin? Alr

[knotty pasture]

Arcane Trickster, Phantom and Assassin are all solid

[glass granite]

In 2024 they get to sacrifice some sneak attack damage for additional effects

[undone rain]

I do like a bit of arcane magic

[glass granite]

And it’s also when their sneak attack hits 3d6 iirc

[knotty pasture]

Turn invis, misty step around, shoot people that way

[mighty wharf]

The optimal choice is artirogue becuase then you can just bag of holding bomb everything until the DM bans you from the game

[glass granite]

And yeah I like arcane trickster

[mighty wharf]

Why did they add bag of holding to the infusion list...

[knotty pasture]

Same reason why godexits exist

[undone rain]

So im assuming its a gish type

[glass granite]

Yup

[mighty wharf]

Do I even want to know what that is?

[glass granite]

Though definitely more on the martial side

[undone rain]

Ahhhh gotcha

[knotty pasture]

You go Genie Warlock and become god at level 1 with funny wording in the rules

[glass granite]

Is it that effective?

[knotty pasture]

For all intents and purposes no DM should humor this idea

[glass granite]

I mean, I don’t think it’s common knowledge either

[mighty wharf]

I saw an artichron build that did this and I was just lost for words.

[undone rain]

Im making a kenku rogue with range being their main thing which is why i ask. Their literal name being Bowstring Flick

[mighty wharf]

One that was actually intended to be played too I think. But they had diagrams of "BoH Bomb Arrows"...

It was so stupid and not in the fun way

[glass granite]

2014 or 2024?

[undone rain]

2024

[glass granite]

Could go true strike if you want

[wild harbor]

hello

[remote wadi]

gish?

[signal finch]

How do you make characters on d&d beyond when your going for a race tgats not available on the app

[undone rain]

Gish, their origin is from the gith knights that held a sword in one hand and a spell in the other. They focus on both martial and spellcasting

Nowadays its used for subclasses who do the same like bladesingers, eldritch knight, sword bard etc etc

[still plover]

Either:

• Buy the book that has the relevant content through DDB
• If you own a physical version, copy the features in using the homebrew tools, or
• Join a campaign where the DM has content sharing enabled

[remote wadi]

Ranger?

[undone rain]

You could say that, its usually for those who use arcane magic so classes like paladin dosent count

[glass granite]

I’ve heard some call rangers and paladins gish

[hushed mason]

I usually hear it in reference to arcane types.

[glass granite]

Could just be me

[toxic cloak]

Hello peoples. I just saw a few clips of "legend of avantris" and i wanna try this dnd stuff can someone explain to me what this actually is and how it works and what those classes are?

[glass granite]

?new

[marble lion]

You failed me

[glass granite]

Ope, Dyno is sleepy

[glass granite]

Read up on the first few chapters of the free basic rules on #learn-to-play , and feel free to ask any questions you might have.

Oh and #dnd-newcomers is a great place to ask

But overall it’s a table top roleplaying game where you can roleplay and there’s a Dungeon master “hosting” a setting. There are also 12 classes in the core free rules

[marble lion]

Its basically makebelief with risk/challenge represented through dice rolls

[still plover]

Succinct.

[toxic cloak]

Thanks

[marble lion]

There are many other systems that kinda do the sameish, i love dnd

[stark arch]

does any one now wat tool skils or other skils are needed to craft percamentas ? i asume ability to skin an animal for its hide would be enough for this?

[toxic cloak]

Are there calls on here where sessions are done etc?

[glass granite]

No

[toxic cloak]

Sad. But are there discords that have that?

[marble lion]

Yeah tons

This place has #find-a-game to help find them

[still plover]

The various Looking channels are where folk organise to play. There's other options like LFG on Reddit, Roll20, StartPlaying and more.

[marble lion]

Its very america focussed though but other regions still have a chance, and other regions have servers too

You gotta realise though that finding a game that clicks with you can take a while

[toxic cloak]

Why would region matter?

[marble lion]

Weekly scheduling, same setting desired (scifi or greek myth or classic dnd), personal compatibility
It can take a bit to find a game

[marble lion]

1. Time zones mostly

[toxic cloak]

Oh fair but some people work for example only night shifts etc

[marble lion]

Eh probably just that to be honest

[marble lion]

You will see honestly

Its possible as i said, just a warning so you dont run into a delay and lose hope

As a european myself, finding a game would be a lot easier in america. Many many games are at times i cant play

If you work nightshifts as a european, that can help but any working day would still mean youre in the middle of your shift during the game primetime

[toxic cloak]

Alr thanks

[toxic cloak]

How do you know im european💔

[marble lion]

Maybe i didnt

[toxic cloak]

Oh i read it wrong

[marble lion]

You will never know for sure

Had a feeling

[signal finch]

Are you a good dm?

[toxic cloak]

No

[signal finch]

Haise

[still plover]

Now there's a loaded question! Yeah Haise, are ya?

[toxic cloak]

How does you only have the pride role

[still plover]

I'm special.

[toxic cloak]

You are my special "backround music playin"

[still plover]

I just prefer the white title. Fits with my avatar. And Pride is Pride.

[signal finch]

It’s not white, it’s rainbow

[still plover]

My name reads as white on my screen with the rainbow colours on the ampserand. I can't say how it appears on yours.

Anyway, The blob, why are you in need of a good DM?

[signal finch]

Just to figure out how to make characters that are not races on d&d beyond, because there’s not many on there

[still plover]

Asked and answered, by me no less: #dnd-discussion message

[signal finch]

I can’t buy anything

[still plover]

And asking for content sharing outside of a campaign group is a no-no.

[signal finch]

How does that work

The dm to create my character?

[still plover]

If you get a group that does have sharing, a character assigned to that campaign will have the options available from the shared content. It's never a guarantee, mind.

Perhaps you can reflavour an existing species, if that's what you're after? Or simply adjust your expectations.

[signal finch]

Can you do it

[marble lion]

Oh im the best

[wild harbor]

When is the next campaign?

[marble lion]

Next friday

Im very excited

I planned out a kazakura revision tale

[wild harbor]

oh wow so what changes are you planning to make in this version?

[marble lion]

The coolest one is the creation myth

Im going way back in time with the campaign

First high level start as well

Its planned to have a big time jump for a followup campaign starting as humble travellers level 1 later which i did tell the party so they dont get upset, even tho id have loved to keep it secret

[wild harbor]

well what kind of world are you building gods and ancient wars type or something more mysterious and cosmic? and how long have you been playing?

[marble lion]

Im a little sad though that i cant play in it myself

Gods and mysterious, less war

[wild harbor]

great

[marble lion]

At least at first

Cant spoil or they might read

[wild harbor]

you gonna make your own game?

[marble lion]

I think i started dnd 5 years ago

No im quite happy with dnd as a game system

[wild harbor]

oh wow a huge time

[marble lion]

Eh sorta new in comparison to people

[wild harbor]

so whats game you playing?

[marble lion]

How long have you been doing dnd?

[wild harbor]

not long time just few month i am new

[junior spade]

What's a good feat for like a hexblade?

[elder elbow]

Eventually you'll start talking about your time playing dnd in how many new people you brought into the game~

[real thunder]

War caster
You probably want to be able to keep consintration well and it means you can hold a spell focus and a wepon if u want

[elder elbow]

So I don't know if it's a difference of editions or what, but I looked up fairy in 5e and I found three almost identical stat blocks, but one has an extra ability.

[junior spade]

Fair

Any other suggestions? I can take one more feat

[real thunder]

Idk
What rule set are you using (2024 or 2014)

[junior spade]

2024

[still plover]

There's always Tough. Or one of the Initiate feats to get a little extra sparkle.

[junior spade]

oh tough my beloved thanks for reminding me that exists

[sharp island]

Heu guys

[wild harbor]

hey how are you doing today?

[sharp island]

Lil tired
And question why it took so long to make my account on dnd beyond

[wild harbor]

This is my new account

[sharp island]

Oh icic

[wild harbor]

due to some technical issue my old Discord is not opening

[sharp island]

Ahhh icic

[echo meteor]

WAIT a minute! you can’t silvery barbs for your own spell anymore

only 1 spell slot per turn 😭

you need to grab it using stuff like fae touched 🙁

[weak badger]

Can you create nuetron stars and magistars with prestigition if you created smaller one

[lyric viper]

Presti is clear it makes illusionary, harmless small trinket. A star, small or not, would not fit in that category.

Minor Creation. You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand. It lasts until the end of your next turn. A trinket can deal no damage and has no monetary worth.

You could perhaps make an illusion of a tiny star.

[vale sage]

Zelda!!

[weak badger]

A nuetron star itself deal now damage and in therory can be incredibly small

[lyric viper]

Then, ask the question- does you character even know what a neutron star looks like to make an illusion of it?

[severe rampart]

or if they even know neutron stars exist

[lyric viper]

Ultimately question like this will encounter the game questions of 'Okay, but why?'
When your DM needs to figure out what your goal is, or if it's purely having theoretical fun with the rules and going 'Ah, but, I could by these rules, technically, sort of, do X'

So the questions is 'What is the goal here?'

[weak badger]

My DM said I can then I created two and launched them close by each other to create a merger to destroy a settlment

[glad arch]

Yeh not how that works im afraid

[lyric viper]

Yeah, that would not be possible RAW

They are illusions

[weak badger]

Creation. You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand. It lasts until the end of your next turn. A trinket can deal no damage and has no monetary worth
This is copied from dnd beyond

[lyric viper]

Yes and I quoted it just above.

An illusionary image, or a harmless trinket (trinket being a game term for the little trinkets you can get in character creation.)

[frail mural]

Guys, arcane trickster or soulknife? (For level 5)

[lyric viper]

You can make an illusionary image of a star. It is still illusionary.

This is a cantrip. You're not making a settlement destroying bomb with such.

If you DM allows you to do so, go ham. but in the general discussion, that is not how that spell would work and you'd not find many other DMs to rule such.

[lyric viper]

Might need more details- #character-discussion could also help out!

[frail mural]

You can, you can even make them emmanate heat for roleplay reasons. They don't do anything though

[frail mural]

Ty

[weak badger]

My DM rules a trinket as something that can fit in your hand

[lyric viper]

Coolio. So the question is still, what is your goal here?

[glass granite]

-# It seems to be destroying settlements with a cantrip?

[lyric viper]

I mean more with asking us

[glad arch]

This is some create water inside their lungs gimmick ramped up to 1000

[lyric viper]

If your DM has already let you do the little gimmic, why ask us?

[frail mural]

-# They really buffed cantrips in 5.5 huh, damnnnn

[glad arch]

Anything to make casters stronger

Those guys really needed their buffs

[hushed mason]

I think @weak badger has left the building.

[lyric viper]

I think the fun thing my players tried with Presti was using it almost like a starwars hologram, showing a little illusionary image of the person or object they were talking about.

[glad arch]

Same, we used it to verify with one of our party members that the person they saw was the bad guy we saw before

Just a little hologram and like 'is this the guy'

[lyric viper]

Presti really is a lot of previous cantrips stuck into one. I would like to have 'Bee' back. Just summon an angry bee.

[glad arch]

A single one?

[lyric viper]

One single angry bee.

[glad arch]

Go bee, distract that guard

[lyric viper]

When this cantrip is used, the caster summons a honey bee from someplace—where is of no im­portance, for the creature appears in seconds. The bee appears in whatever spot the caster is gazing at, up to 10 feet distant. The bee is an­noyed and 90% likely to sting any living creature it finds itself upon. (This certainly causes the creature to react violently if it would to a normal bee sting.)
The verbal component is a low buzzing sound, made while the caster moves a forefinger through flight like passes.
From Dragon #60 (1982), when they began introducing cantrips in. (Along with a lot of what made it into presti like spice, salt, sour, sweet (the flavour option), dry, dampen, dirty, clean, polish, so on)

[glad arch]

Ooowh as someone whos never played older editions i love that they mention what the verbal and somatic components are

Sending a random bee out to sting people is fun too

[lyric viper]

I really like some of the flavour of older spells, even if I understand why they were simplified for game convenience.

I found it very funny that for Spiderclimb the recipient had to eat the live spider as part of the spell. You could force feed someone.
And the idea is that your hands and feet become sticky enough to climb- so if you're wearing gloves or boots, guess they're stuck on now. Touch something lighter than about 10lb, that's stuck to you too now.

[proper forum]

Lore tip/idea: create something (character or setting) that is inspired by the region you grew up in. Not only will it be something deeply personal to you, but it'd probably be easier for you because you're writing based on something you're familiar with.

Also feel free to draw inspiration from the things that were close to you, be it the land, your family, your childhood memories, or anything else.

[severe rampart]

That's actually a pretty nice idea

[feral fulcrum]

We may have lost Bee, but we gained Infestation.

[sharp island]

Hey guys

[opal pecan]

Where should I start learning about D&D?

[still plover]

#dnd-newcomers to get started. You can find the free rules, video guides and ask any questions about the game you may have.

[remote wadi]

Kind of a shame they make tier 3 and 4 upsides great, but then proceed to make most content not feature these things

[sharp island]

Hey Mr.Smith

[still plover]

What's up?

[sharp island]

Nothing much
I am so close to actually making a charcter

(Im finally making progress with learning)

[still plover]

Got your class, background and species down?

[sharp island]

I actually finished the whole sheet on Beyond

I just need to make the name and design and im set

[still plover]

Feel free to share it in #character-discussion if you're after any feedback.

[sharp island]

I certainly will

[velvet harbor]

which channel would i be able to discuss concepts for a world campaign setting on?

[marsh hollow]

https://youtube.com/shorts/gTbPgoSw_0c?si=9AwVvXnLB2eQfmtz

Spell components are puns.

[still plover]

That'd be #dm-world-building.

[sharp island]

Smith, are you a dm by chance?

[still plover]

Flippant answer aside, yes. I do master the dungeons.

[sharp island]

So occasionally I may go to you for some help if that's fine?

[still plover]

I'm certainly here more than I should be, but if you've got questions feel free to throw them out. Someone's usually around.

[sharp island]

Thanks

[proper forum]

Do yall ever subconsciously make your characters look like you? Because I tend to make them look similar to me and give them my actual height.

[velvet harbor]

depends on how insecure one is

[proper forum]

My first character looks like me but older and more muscular

[tame forge]

My characters look like I wish I did.

[proper forum]

Because IRL I don't have 14 strength I have maybe 5

Sorry typo

It was a typo okay??

[tame forge]

I dunno. I play Harpies, Ghouls, ETC.

Which is def how I imagine myself in my ideal, dream life.

[proper forum]

I see. I prefer more humanoid looking races though I have considered playing as an owlin or an Aarakocra before (I like birds)

[tame forge]

I have played a couple humanoids but didn't like any of them.

Pretty set on sticking to monsters from this point on.

[proper forum]

And guys remember to love yourselves regardless of your appearance, you are beautiful just the way you are. ❤️

Just putting that out there

[tame forge]

#dnd-arts-and-crafts message

These are my last 3 characters

@proper forum

[noble pine]

Tolls aren't good from for level 1s

[tame forge]

Nah, I can't be bautiful until my fangs are dripping with the blood of the innocent and the modern man looks at me in awe and terror.

[proper forum]

Those look so cool whaaaat

You're crazy a talented artist btw

[tame forge]

The artist is Jin Canar. Have been working with them for years now.

Have a whole homebrew monster manual with tons of unique creatures they drew for me for a game I run

[proper forum]

I also would consider the last 2 to be fairly humanoid and, yes you heard that right, attractive

[tame forge]

Yeah I am rotating out the cleric of asmodeus (human char) for the ghoul.

[proper forum]

There's nothing wrong with me I swea- gets dragged into a padded room

[tame forge]

Ill be playing the ghoul in a session or two.

Necro bard

[proper forum]

Who is the ghoul

[jovial shadow]

Yeah that's natural especially in superhero RPG's

[lyric viper]

I think I try to make character that really don't resemble myself. I don't want me in these situations >.>

[proper forum]

Okay next question (because apparently it's random D&D question day): Do you ever think about what would be your character's theme song? Like a song you like that really fits your character.

I do that. With every one I make.

[lyric viper]

I make youtube playlists for my PCs at times, so I have music to listen to when drawing/writing them.

[proper forum]

I usually find a song that fits their vibe perfectly and can't find any other one

[potent mountain]

hey whats good dungeoneers

[lavish flame]

My current PC is a Wandslinger in Eberron, so I've got a playlist of cowboy-type music for her. I don't have 1 specific song in mind tho

[proper forum]

But come to think of it I haven't found a song for my latest character, only a song for her patron

[fast latch]

What’s the coolest name you’ve ever came up with?

[cerulean yoke]

Hello! I'm new here, love DnD, but it has been a while!

[potent mountain]

Bill Uminahti

[proper forum]

My first character, Sanguinia (I even made it my discord name)

[lavish flame]

I've got a Warforged Fighter whose name is Axiom. I always thought that was pretty evocative.

[fast latch]

Mine is Wr’equiem Spinebreaker, Orc Bard/Fighter

[lyric viper]

Rodger Dodger the halfling thief.

[fast latch]

HAH

[fast latch]

Like the Pixar villain?

[proper forum]

Hello and welcome, I hope you like it here!

[fast latch]

Pretty cool

[velvet harbor]

you mean the ship?

[velvet harbor]

Ray