dnd-discussion

[buoyant oar]

I am typically a laid back DM but when I get a real optimizer. I say. "Alright chief I trust you but after attack roll number 5 imma gonna have you start justifying them."

[stoic obsidian]

If it move 10ft from where you cast the spell the glyph is broken and the spell ended, so the clip isn’t accurate

[rugged hawk]

Stop sucking the magic out of life

[halcyon forum]

sorcadin is fine.

[fiery nimbus]

Said like the true Black Sun enjoyer

[rugged hawk]

Or we can just interpret 'spell ended' as 'KABOOM'

[stoic obsidian]

Then their base should have gone kaboom

[fiery nimbus]

Yes, let me apply that rule to all healing spells and buffs

[rugged hawk]

Yes, that would've been reasonable. Also hilarious. There's also something you're ignoring by enforcing the RAW in this case. Players accidentally nuking a whole town is a GREAT setup for a new campaign and another party to figure out what happened, why, etc.

[blissful ibex]

I mean, just circle cast a Delayed Blast Fireball for the maximum extension of 1 day and do 14422d6 damage c:

[fiery nimbus]

Contingency Storm of Vengeance

[halcyon forum]

the tricky part is to get enemies to be in the right place for this

[keen kestrel]

Tbh, I don’t really like multi classing anyway, only in bg3 because it’s video game mechanics

[blissful ibex]

see, you first cast 1 day duration banishment on them
then next turn 1 day duration DBF on another caster

[halcyon forum]

multiclassing is fun

[fiery nimbus]

Hmm, should I start applying contingency spells to my NPC? Something like an earthquake upon death?

[stoic obsidian]

Even tho exclusive runes are 20ft radius sphere?

[rugged hawk]

Anyway, in this case, I'd totally allow the 'book of warding', because even if we ignore the RAW and let it happen, it builds a great event for both the current and next campaign.

[blissful ibex]

Multiclassing exists so that you have the ability to cover ground the existing classes don't cover mechanically on their own c:

[keen kestrel]

The dual wielder as they make 4 attacks at level 5 and still barely keep up dmg wise with PAM

[stoic obsidian]

Cleric Sorcerer

[fiery nimbus]

No character should be able to cover everything though

[halcyon forum]

tempest cleric is awesome with sorc, yeah

[blissful ibex]

Then why does 2024 bard exist

[keen kestrel]

Eh, i just like playing a class as is. I’ll get around to it eventually but not currently

[fiery nimbus]

They are weak to dying

[rugged hawk]

Also, I'd totally count a whole book full of GoW to be Circle Magic, where each additional cast makes the affected area bigger or the damage higher.

[keen kestrel]

Why does cleric exist

[halcyon forum]

cleric has way more weak spots than bard

[glass granite]

Can Clerics do skill checks very well?

[blissful ibex]

They have every spell list, are a skill class with expertise, have multiple martial subclasses, and can generally do most everything in the game on one character

[stoic obsidian]

The problem I have with it is the video not saying rule of cool

[hidden spindle]

Yes. The Thaumaturge could

[blissful ibex]

generalists are fine

[fiery nimbus]

They are weak to... Eh... I'm sure there is something they can't do

[fiery nimbus]

They get guidance cantrip

[blissful ibex]

and bless

[stoic obsidian]

Because people (particularly newer players) could assume that how the spell, when it not

[blissful ibex]

and the cleric version of Primal Order - Magician which adds their WIS mod to Religion and Arcana checks

[halcyon forum]

cleric spell list is not very impressive past level 4 spells or so, and much less versatile than bards. worse skill checks too

[rugged hawk]

It's not even about rule of cool in this case, but worldbuilding and roleplay. "Oops, the heroes just became accidental BBEG NPCs and are now infamous villains being hunted down by the next party for their accidental massacre."

[blissful ibex]

see, I prefer WIS checks to CHA checks, mostly because I'm not huge into RP

[stoic obsidian]

And I am explaining my problem with the video

[hidden spindle]

Let's hear it

[rugged hawk]

I hear ya

[halcyon forum]

but bards are better at wis checks too

[keen kestrel]

Which can be covered if you actually plan out a party, it’s like Druids, they don’t truly have weaknesses outside of magic immune creatures

[coarse ravine]

Guidance + peace bond. Bless doesn't relate to skill checks

[blissful ibex]

give me survival, medicine, and perception with some arcana, stealth, and nature thrown in and I'm hapy

[halcyon forum]

sure parties cover weaknesses. the point is that a bard can pretty much do it all

[stoic obsidian]

Scroll up

[keen kestrel]

To that extent, a rogue can also just do it all lmao, and better than bards can

[halcyon forum]

rogues are not full casters

[glass granite]

What do you mean by “need you”?

[blissful ibex]

Bard, Rogue, and Ranger are the skills classes
only bard is goes way harder with it than the other two in most cases

[coarse ravine]

The druid is the most versatile class. I do like bards i just dont think they can be called the "do it all class"

[glass granite]

Sure I can help

[rugged hawk]

But yeah, I'm totally fine with making strong items, stacked spells, rule of cool, etc.... because anything too far-out will become a plot device that needs resolution by the current or next party.

[keen kestrel]

They also are basically non reliant on any form of rest and can do entire days without ever worrying about resources

[glass granite]

Idk, spellcasting alone gives you the ability to do so much

[halcyon forum]

I think Druid can do a few things better than bards, but bards are still good at those (or can be). Meanwhile Druids are pretty bad at social interaction stuff

[keen kestrel]

If you have a party of all rogues, you can just skip the problem instead of using magic to solve it

Who needs to fight bosses when you avoid them and loot their lair instead

[glass granite]

Isn’t the same able to be said with bards? Except they also have the option?

[rugged hawk]

That only works til the door only opens once they smash the adamantine golem

[empty thicket]

Yep, do everything a bit better (guidance, bardic inspiration, bless, etc.), do lots of effects//AOE damage

[stoic obsidian]

Yes, but you forget that you have a limited resource of spell slots and time

[coarse ravine]

Our peers are different. Bards go talk to civilization. Druids go talk to the animals around civilization and the flora inside of it.

[halcyon forum]

do you need help or do you want to help with something?

[halcyon forum]

but bards can also go and talk to animals and plants if they want to

[glass granite]

Bards don’t do skill checks that much worse than rogues, and they have the option for spellcasting

[keen kestrel]

I’d say yes, but rogues can theoretically just avoid every fight if they want, and they don’t have to burn resources to do it

[blissful ibex]

Spell slots are only as limited a resource as the DM allows them to be, which in many cases ends up with them basicly being unlimited because you'll have like 1~2 combats before a long rest, and only burn 2~3 slots outside of that if any

[halcyon forum]

If a DM wants you to get into a specific fight, no class can avoid that

[glass granite]

Bards also don’t have to expend very much either. They also get access to expertise

Plus Jack of all trades

[keen kestrel]

Rogues get reliable talent, which means they functionally can’t fail skill checks

[glass granite]

That they’re proficient in

[coarse ravine]

Yes with expertise, cloak and boots of elvenkind.... your rogues will be rolling 33-43 averages of stealth....nothing is finding that unless they set traps

[empty thicket]

can always change the peace of some battles and add new hordes of enemies, more combats or just harder ones until burning every spellslot

[keen kestrel]

You have a party of rogues, you’ll have every skill covered lol

[stoic obsidian]

Tsk tsk tsk you forget not all DMs are alike, and it sound like you are more experienced with those kind of DMs

[blissful ibex]

PWT can maybe get you out of some stuff, but that's about it >.>

[glass granite]

Your bards also do plenty fine with that

[coarse ravine]

A bard ain't outstealthing the rogue

[blissful ibex]

That's gonna be a while if you're trying to exhaust primary concentration casters without that many good instantanious damage options

[glass granite]

Sure, but Expertise in stealth is +12 already. That’s plenty good.

[blissful ibex]

Please point me to the attrititive DMs because that is my prefered style of play

[coarse ravine]

The druid can sneak better then any class but thats a different topic entirely lol.

[halcyon forum]

like, idk about your games, but enemies dont tend to just wait around in random locations that are easily telegraphed and avoided in my games.

either enemies attack the PCs or PCs need to fight enemies to get to the plot item at lot of times

[glass granite]

Bards aren’t specialised in stealth as rogues, but they also can do stealth quite well. Hence, versatile.
-# though yeah wildshape is super good for stealth

[empty thicket]

there are ways obviously, poison and Dots (damage over time) are good
Multiple mini hits taht even if they deal 1 damage x 3 to 6 times, its the concentration breaking the point

[stoic obsidian]

And the number of combat encounter can change, or they include encounters that force you to use more of your spell slots like have to use vortex warp to get people across a big gap

[coarse ravine]

Sleet storm

[empty thicket]

Depend for me what kind of caster too, if its a warlock//celeric//bard i would like them to save those spells
Now if its an arti//wizard or druid i wont mind them using some

[blissful ibex]

sleet storm is so nice
especially paired with plant growth

[coarse ravine]

Had a krampus encounter that had a lair action every round with a d4. It was either sleet storm in the dungeon that round. Or ice storm, or cone of cold blast. Or darkness.

[stoic obsidian]

Nah

How spellcasters get equal treatment in my book

[wheat moon]

Where would I go if I need help with a homebrew feature in dnd beyond?

[keen kestrel]

Imma say something blasphemous (I dislike Druids)

[glass granite]

#ddb-support if you’re having technical difficulties

[stoic obsidian]

Plus it up to them

[blissful ibex]

What part?

[empty thicket]

that is fair,, about what they want to do with theirs spells too

[stoic obsidian]

I just make them face deadly encounters that make them twice about saving their spells

[coarse ravine]

I was a dm running that session. It was a pretty fun krampus encounter

[coarse ravine]

Honestly what's to dislike about them?

[empty thicket]

I have a bard that even using offensive spells, he cant land nothing or the enemies dodge the attacks and get half damage.
One time the enemies didnt dodged it and he got like 2 or 3 dices with 1

[stoic obsidian]

Unlucky

[empty thicket]

So, for consequence of his luck he decided being more healer//supportish giving heals and haste (the dm gave him that spell because it feel fitting for the bard, no isnt in their spell list in RAW)

[coarse ravine]

Is it because you play sorcerer with like no versatility outside your few spells. To the class that can change it up daily with tons of options. Is the reason too much availability?

[empty thicket]

Yes, he is a forced pacifist, he cant kill entities. That is where i enter, with haste and bardic inspiration and do Doom glory kills to the enemies

[coarse ravine]

Dont bards get synaptic static?

[empty thicket]

the rest of the team do the Killing part for him

[keen kestrel]

Yes, I like limiting things inherently typically

I also just don’t like nature that much, much less changing into animals

[stoic obsidian]

The debuff is on attacks rolls and ability checks not saving throws

[empty thicket]

2014 and idk if that is a spell or feature

[keen kestrel]

Most of it tbh, but even flavor wise it’s not really for me

[coarse ravine]

Concentration saves also

[blissful ibex]

see, I like naturey classes, and more martial casters so it's basicly tailored to me

[bronze wave]

I’m not a fan of most nature classes

[empty thicket]

we like the idea of him being a pacifist and the rest of the team having to do the dirty work.
His character roleplay kinda dummy so some stuff we have to explain it, hide it or just "lie" about it to him

[bronze wave]

Tho I am playing a moon Druid for a new campaign I’m in or I will be playing one

[keen kestrel]

Just not a nature person, I hate touching grass

[coarse ravine]

Im a waterfall nerd in real life hahah. So yeah im a huge nature person also

[empty thicket]

Druid and ranger and some subclasses, What about them?

[blissful ibex]

tbf, sorc and paladin are very close to the bottom of my list as well

[keen kestrel]

Also why I’m not a big Ranger fan either

[keen kestrel]

I get it, nobody wants to play a nepo baby or a magic cop

[bronze wave]

Just don’t like any of them. Ranger is just mid

[coarse ravine]

Nah paladin top 5. Aura for the W

[blissful ibex]

meh

[bronze wave]

I love Paladin. Top 1 ngl

[glass granite]

I like monks

[blissful ibex]

Druid, Monk, Bard, Wizard, and Rogue

[coarse ravine]

That aura has saved me so many times. In a perfect party you want that +5 aura.

[keen kestrel]

Aura is like the most optimal reason to play paladin, but it’s not even close to my favorite features of theirs

[halcyon forum]

right? they are just neat

[glass granite]

Ikr

[halcyon forum]

Artificer and Monk are my fav classes

[glass granite]

Monk, bard, cleric, paladin, sorcerer
For my top 5

[blissful ibex]

aura is good, but like, just not the flavor I like in characters
do like auras though

[glass granite]

I like the flavour of paladins personally

[empty thicket]

im giving it a try, Ranger hunter, but the whole favored enemy and natural explorer dont feel... "nice" that is only 1, 2, 3, etc. kinds
Would feel nice its just advantages in some ways for X kind of things.
More general and useful at least

[coarse ravine]

1. Wizard (op)
2. Druid (shapechange
3. Cleric (best healers
4. Paladin (aura
5. Bard (face and access to shapechange.

[glass granite]

Wizards are my personal least fav full caster

[empty thicket]

Hunter get good stuff and features, mostly offensive ones. I enjoy the extra 1d8 damage and further things.
But ngl, will see how i make it work in some things.
The idea is a sniper and the whole ranger stuff make it work

[blissful ibex]

ranger is nice flavor wise, but the away I do druids is basicly ranger but better so
just merge it with druid and give us the cool mobility feats c:
can leave hunter's mark though, spell is bad

[halcyon forum]

I like all classes (though Cleric is my least favorite)

[coarse ravine]

Yeah favored terrain would be a nice druid feature

For flavor

[worldly flare]

I am a avid wizard appreciator.

[empty thicket]

2014, important to remark and i might use or Hunters mark or Zephyr strike, both seems useful for me and more considerating i aim for the important//big enemies

[coarse ravine]

Can't remotely even close heal like we can over here at the wisdom table. But yeah "best class" yall got it. Just not a question

[blissful ibex]

also

• cleric should be a CHA caster
• Sorcerer should be a WIS caster
• and Warlock should be an INT caster
  thank you for coming to my TED talk

[coarse ravine]

Idk I kinda like wisdom for clerics

Their God giving them wisdom

[worldly flare]

WIS for sorcerers? Elaborate

[coarse ravine]

Sorcerers should be using con for casting.

[glass granite]

Warlock is the only one I semi-agree with here

[blissful ibex]

More like, being in touch with yourself rather than force of personality

[worldly flare]

That feels like it would be super MAD though.

[coarse ravine]

Con for casting Just to be broken hahaha.

[blissful ibex]

cleric should be more Proselytizing and like managing communities of followers and those that approach them for aid

[jovial shadow]

Clerics have wisdom as their primary ability because they historically represented the gods.

[blissful ibex]

warlocks are supposed to be forbidden knowledge obsessed, damn the concequences; yet are CHA instead of INT which just kinda feels weird

[coarse ravine]

I just think sorcerer should be "the best" but wizards are. Sorcerers ya could argue wisdom, charisma, or intelligence. Just thought con because they are supposed to be born from magic. So their blood should be more powerful and how they get their magic.

[indigo cedar]

in one of the playtests I think they did try and change warlock to int, people did not like it

[worldly flare]

Fair enough.

[glass granite]

I interpret wisdom in dnd as taking power from a higher source, either natural or divine. Conversely, charisma is a force of self that stems from an internal power (warlock doesn’t make sense too much, maybe they’re using the internal influence of the patron?)

[blissful ibex]

heck, just make it so Sorcerer picks their main stat when you roll the character/take up the class

[coarse ravine]

Yeah now thats a idea

Paladin should be wisdom

[blissful ibex]

Fighter is already the flex stat martial, let there be a flex stat caster

[jovial shadow]

You pick a stat. You pick a stat. Everyone pick their own stats!!

[coarse ravine]

Bloodhunter (not raw) but they get wisdom or intelligence too for martial based stuff.

[hidden fractal]

yo

[coarse ravine]

Sorcerers being Versatile would be cool

[blissful ibex]

warlock would probs be the better flex stat class though, due to their more limited engagement with casting in general and highly customizable setup

[empty thicket]

I would like having const proficiency

[empty thicket]

I see them more like, they adapt the spells

[blissful ibex]

con + dex save proficiency for everyone

[empty thicket]

Na, my dex isnt nice, would like const + str or widsom on me

[coarse ravine]

Dex is prolly most common save in the game. Along with con and wisdom

[blissful ibex]

like sorcerer being CHA or WIS
Warlock being CHA or INT
Cleric could be WIS or CHA as well
Druid WIS or INT
Wizard gets all three because wizard

[empty thicket]

Dex is too op

Give ac, initiative, dodge a lot of spells, etc.

[coarse ravine]

Druid wis or int

I could see wizard being wiz or int or charisma lol

Charisma for telling the stories from the books they read.

[blissful ibex]

i mean, they have to be the best caster class, so why not

[jovial shadow]

Why stop at picking in your own primary stats? Let's go further and let you choose your highest stat to save, regardless of what the description calls for. Need a Charisma save, pffgh. Use your Strength if your a fighter.

[hidden spindle]

That's fair. Tbf, the amount of creativity some Spells do have are based on two metrics: yours & the DM's.

[empty thicket]

Wizard being int is for the idea of learning spells and how they work
Cha for warlock and cleric for being under a deity would work for me

[coarse ravine]

Yes some spells get thrown out the window based on your enemy.

Some things cant be blinded. Some things cant be hurt by damage types.
Some things cant be restrained.
Some things can see right through illusions etc.

[blissful ibex]

wis could be for intuiting spells and cha could be for bumming spells off colleagues or whatever
nepo baby wizard

[crimson gulch]

yeah the super grapple barbarian got sad when he couldent suplex a air elemental once upon a time

[coarse ravine]

Yes the party tried to grab my sand elemental.... had to let them know how sandy his hands were after that

[crimson gulch]

ahhhhhhhh sand is the worst

[blissful ibex]

That's what prestidigitation is for c:

or elementalism to wash em off

[coarse ravine]

Saw that spell. Is that like a dumbed down version of gust, control flames, mold earth, shape water?

[cerulean monolith]

It’s one of the “Look! I’m Magic!” Spells

[coarse ravine]

I think I've used mold earth like every session when I have it lol

[blissful ibex]

the water portion gives you access to fresh, potable water so long as you drink it within a minute or freeze it with shape water or something c:

[coarse ravine]

Mold earth is great. Idk how elementalism works but for mold earth. I took the dirt from underneath a enemy before round 1. Round 2 i buried him alive lol

[blissful ibex]

also lets your fishy friends be damp all the time

• Beckon Air is mini gust
• Beckon Earth lets you leave quick messages in the dirt or make places look dusty
• Beckon Fire lets you light things, make tiny fireworks, and scented smoke
• Beckon Water gives you a cup of clean, drinkable water or lets you make things moist
• Sculpt Element is mini, generic [shape water, control fire, etc)

[cerulean monolith]

It’s hilarious how much WotC hates survival and exploration

[blissful ibex]

ikr

I kinda like them on the survival characters though c:

[scarlet zephyr]

what makes you say that?

[cerulean monolith]

That one spell eliminates the need for water entirely

[crimson gulch]

What?

[coarse ravine]

Cause they applied such simple ways to nullify survival campaigns

[blissful ibex]

elementalism, goodberry, and leomunds tiny hut together fully cover the three main corners of wilderness survival

[coarse ravine]

"Hey guys my cantrip gets fresh water." Used to be a leveled spell for it. Now its just a cantrip

[blissful ibex]

prestidigitation also lets you warm or cool your clothing/food, clean up, and reflavor things

[crimson gulch]

the water from elementalism dissapears after a minut, you drink it and it un drinks from you

[glass granite]

-# There’s also “being a warforged”, which eliminates two

[blissful ibex]

that reading is entirely against the intention of the spell

[blissful ibex]

and anyway, create/destroy water is first level

[crimson gulch]

i disagree that that is the intention of the spell entirely

[cerulean monolith]

That’s not how drinking water works

[crimson gulch]

thats how the spell is worded

[coarse ravine]

Ive had a character with shape water and mold earth to remove all the dirt from dirty water sources. He was walking around making clean drinking water in the rivers essentially.

[blissful ibex]

the water in your stomach can evaporate all it wants, it's still in your stomach

[crimson gulch]

so mist burps, gotcha

[blissful ibex]

it's not just making air, it's diffusing into what is already there

[hidden fractal]

yo

[coarse ravine]

"Beckon Water. You create a spray of cool mist that lightly dampens creatures and objects in a 5-foot Cube. Alternatively, you create 1 cup of clean water either in an open container or on a surface, and the water evaporates in 1 minute."

[keen kestrel]

@blissful ibex so charisma had a little different meaning in its Greek roots, presumably why it’s the main casting focus on sorcerers and such

And clerics originally weren’t big speakers, they were conduits of gods and possessed their wisdom

[blissful ibex]

thing is though, the connotations of the classes evolve over time; and the rules they're bound to should evolve with them

played, like 1~2 if you don't count CRPGs and interacting with non TTRPG media based around it
if you do, more like ~18?

[woven flint]

3 and a half, and I've already been in too many damn games lmao

[vale sage]

i only just created my character today

[worldly flare]

Probably around 7-8 now.

[woven flint]

My most played classes are Monk and Cleric (around 5 each lol)

[keen kestrel]

You’re not wrong, but it does feel easier to just stick with what we have now

[hushed adder]

Hey, I’m getting Eberron forge or the articfer and am wondering if I also need to get Eberon rising from the last war to be able to use all of the included stuff?

[proven mountain]

Playing weekly since 2019

[glass granite]

My most played are monk at 2, then bard and cleric at 2

[blissful ibex]

just the most recent printing, unless you need something explicitly written in the old one that is not included in the new one, or want to use the old version for whatever reason

[keen kestrel]

I’ve played for about 3 years now, and currently I’ve done 6 campaigns

[crimson gulch]

no the book stands alone, but it dosent have nearly so much info about the world

[woven flint]

I've been in a few D&D games and a singular Starfinder 2e game, Monster of the Week, Call of Cthulu and Mutants & Masterminds

[crimson gulch]

i have been a player in 5 different short campaigns and Ran and finished 18 campaigns in the last 4 years, currently running 9 campaigns

[keen kestrel]

Charisma originally meant a gift of grace in Ancient Greek

[worldly flare]

Wow. Impressive.

[woven flint]

Monster of the Week was pretty fun,
I played a swamp Ghost fella named Bog.
He could phase through walls and attacked by draining life essence with roots entangled in his body

[keen kestrel]

So it makes sense that someone born with latent power (a gift) would be a charisma caster for what it’s worth

[blissful ibex]

see, I would have had a campaign like 10+ years ago but the dm flaked >.>
and just otherwise was never around people interested in playing it

[keen kestrel]

But I’ll take it my grave that warlocks should not be cha casters

They should be int casters through and through

[crimson gulch]

i wanted to play dnd years ago, i bought my first players handbook in 2021 but never actualy played for 20 years

played a tonne of the video games and read hundreds of the novels in that time though

[keen kestrel]

And clerics should be given the choice of cha or Wis, much like blood hunters do

[woven flint]

In Call of Cthulu I played an 18 year old British Journalist named Maxwell Pax, he grew up as a street ruffian, but had a passion for storytelling

[storm magnet]

Are there signs a DM would be better as a writer than a DM?

[woven flint]

Oh man, I love my silly boys

[crimson gulch]

yeah, if they spend more time worldbuilding and prepping then running games

[jovial shadow]

Intelligence has already been taken by Wizards, which have been the core spell caster since D&D began as a Magic User. Warlocks and Sorcerers are new and should accept their place. 🙂

[woven flint]

Psion being an up and coming Intelligence caster:

[meager fractal]

Bards:

[keen kestrel]

Like I said, I do think warlocks should be int casters, but it makes sense that bards and sorcerers are cha casters for different reasons

[woven flint]

Artificers, Wizard, Psion
The holy trinity of intellect lmao

[keen kestrel]

Don’t forget blood hunters

[woven flint]

They're not official.

[crimson gulch]

i try very hard too, they are so bad

[woven flint]

Psion technically isn't "Official" right now either, but it's an actual class being worked on by WOTC

[keen kestrel]

I mean, it’s on dnd beyond

[woven flint]

It's still not official.
It's partnered content.

[forest sun]

W

[blissful ibex]

Warlocks, Sorcerers, Bards, and Paladins

[woven flint]

Bloodhunter isn't a part of anything outside of being partnered.

[keen kestrel]

Tbf, int centric characters are slim pickings

[blissful ibex]

4 classes on 1 caster stat is heavily weighted

[woven flint]

Which is why i can't wait for Psion

[jovial shadow]

what do you mean?

[keen kestrel]

I’m not overtly excited for Psion, but hopefully it’s fun for folks

[blissful ibex]

all four classes share CHA as their primary stat
and WIS which has 3
vs int which just has 2, (2 now with artificer)

[woven flint]

Pathfinder has multiple Intelligence classes:
Investigator, Witch, Wizard, Alchemist, Inventor, Psychic (Depending on which you pick) and Commander.
But WOTC has been sleeping on INT >:[

[keen kestrel]

If we include artificer it’s 2

[blissful ibex]

yup, caught it and edited

[keen kestrel]

They regretted making wizards and decided not to make another broken class

We all know int is the best stat in the game after all

It’s definitely NOT the one I dump almost every time

[rugged hawk]

Eh, just change Wizards to 1d2 HD Coin flip per level

[keen kestrel]

We could go back to 1d4 hit dice, problem solved I say

[woven flint]

I know its a joke, but if they regretted making Wizards they wouldn't have given them decent buffs in 2024 rules

[rugged hawk]

And remove Toughness feat and Con HP bonuses from them, too

[keen kestrel]

Oh yeah, I just think WOTC doesn’t wanna make more int classes because they wanna give the himbos things to play

[woven flint]

In terms of interesting things, Wizard overall has been pretty stale as a class

[woven flint]

Doesn't make sense at all, since Himbos are literally "Stupid Handsome Men" but, go off?

[wraith kelp]

guys what lvl is for violet prismatic spray and what class is that from

[hidden fractal]

yo

[keen kestrel]

Sure it does, we have more cha casters than anything, and people like dumping int

[hidden fractal]

whats your class and race

[woven flint]

Not saying Int characters can't be handsome, the whole point of a Himbo is being kinda dumb but in an endearing way

[keen kestrel]

Yeah? I wasn’t insulting himbos

[woven flint]

I know you weren't

[keen kestrel]

Hm, you know more than me then. Sometimes I feel like I don’t know myself

[hidden fractal]

whats your class and race

[keen kestrel]

Uh, aasimar hexblade in one campaign, dusk elf light cleric in another, and a variant human celestial warlock in my last one

[hidden fractal]

nice

[keen kestrel]

The variant human has a bit of oni blood mixed into his family tree

[hidden fractal]

most recently i used a dhampir monk way of shadow

[woven flint]

My current characters are
Harengon Bladesinger Wizard
Centaur Barbarian
Yuan-Ti Alchemist Artificer
Tortle Knowledge Cleric
Dark Elf/Drow Celestial Warlocj

[hidden fractal]

before that i used a simic hybrid fighter echo knight carapace manta glide

[hidden fractal]

nice

[karmic dagger]

hey guys

[hidden fractal]

yo

[karmic dagger]

i’m new here

[hidden fractal]

whats your class and race

[keen kestrel]

5?! I need your luck so I can get into more campaigns

[karmic dagger]

no idea lol. Just trying out something new. idk the first thing about dnd ngl

[scarlet zephyr]

himbos have to be 3 things. Sweet, dumb as a bag of rocks and built like a barn.

[hidden fractal]

alright

want some help if so then dm me

[wintry spindle]

My mercy monk is a himbo

[karmic dagger]

will do rn i’m just looking around

[wintry spindle]

it's fun. But he is also kind and is like paddington the bear

[hidden fractal]

ok

btw in dnd you pre make a character so ill tell you all the official raw character classes and races

[woven flint]

6 if you count my Starfinder campaign
Playing a Ratfolk/Ysoki Mechanic there

[keen kestrel]

Invite me, I need more things

I need something to play a genie paladin in

[woven flint]

All those games are full lmao

[keen kestrel]

Darn

[woven flint]

But yes, I have many creatures

[keen kestrel]

We resume tomorrow, so my itch should go away

I haven’t had dnd in like 3 weeks

[fiery nimbus]

Genie? You mean genasi?

[jovial shadow]

I've noticed they call it Genie on here

[keen kestrel]

Oath of the noble genie

[woven flint]

I had an Earth Genasi Noble Genies Paladin

He perished in Glorious combat.

[fiery nimbus]

Oh homebrew

[woven flint]

That's official lol

[wintry spindle]

No it's new subclass heroes of faerun

[fiery nimbus]

Oh that's why I didn't know

[woven flint]

2024 stuff

[fiery nimbus]

I only have base and asterion from 2024 stuff

[jovial shadow]

Just not core classes, only optional classes

[keen kestrel]

Yeh, it’s new

It’s cool though, I’ve been working on a backstory for him

[blissful ibex]

College of the Moon bard and Spellfire Sorcerer are really nice from that also

though the level 6 ability on college of the moon was a massive wiff mechanically

[wintry spindle]

I actually like the scion of three rogue. But it's a little "teleports behind you nothing personal kiiiid" coded

[blissful ibex]

balances the level 3 one kinda though so fair

[woven flint]

My Genies Paladin was struck down by a Lich, at level 11 lol
2 sessions into the campaign.
It was an encounter to run away from, he took Honor and Death and it took all 4 of the Liches attacks to take him completely out lol
The party escaped with his sacrifice though 🧐

[blissful ibex]

incredibly so, it's very fun

[wintry spindle]

I like playing rogues for short campaigns

I'm glad bladesinger is back and now you can hit with your inteligence

[blissful ibex]

i'm cursed with 'only ever wants to play the one character' q_q

[thorny ocean]

does anyone know of a web site and or app were i can add multiple dice and spells effects to calculate damage?

[wintry spindle]

I will play everything except ranger

[woven flint]

I'm cursed with the 'Too many character ideas, but my characters are still alive.." curse

OH! wait!
I forgot one character
I'm actually in 7 campaigns lol
I forgot my Dragonborn Cavalier Fighter

[keen kestrel]

I just wish they redid divine soul insead

[glass granite]

I’m stuck with the “Too many character ideas, but I’m the DM of my group” curse

[wintry spindle]

I hope we will soon get to know the 2026 book plans

[keen kestrel]

I know this feeling

[woven flint]

I love all of my characters greatly, but they need to die before I lose my patience /j

[fiery nimbus]

Tell your DM, that problem can be solved

[woven flint]

My dms are aware that I'm ready to die /lh

[wintry spindle]

Or they can just retire

[fiery nimbus]

Are you crazy? That's too unrealistic

[woven flint]

Alas, my characters are, for the most part, at points in their career where they've got a bit too much on the line to just retire

[wintry spindle]

They moved to another city to open up a inn

[crimson gulch]

i had a pc early in a recent campaign that got hired on as a full time blacksmith, and im like cool, let me know who your new adventurer is

[wintry spindle]

Retire the pc and make them an npc down the line

[woven flint]

My Celestial Warlock is a Drow from Menzoberrenzen and he seek to foil lolths plans

My Dragonborn Cavalier Fighters teammate got Dojon'd and his horse is Dead.. also his boyfriend is a party member

My Harengon Bladesinger has an Artifact that gave him 30 intelligence and has a dragon daughter

My Yuan-Ti Alchemist just started, but he's got.. plots and ideas.

Ect ect.

[wintry spindle]

Players who activly make their backstories derail the campaign is my pet peeve. Don'twrite your PC has to go do x thing if it's not something they can do during the actual campaigns

[keen kestrel]

My favorite is my dusk half elf light cleric whose dad ran away from Barovia, just for this lackadaisical idiot to walk right back into it lol

[crimson gulch]

oh the trick to that is if one pc goes off on their own is to look at the rest of the party and say "and Sergey was never seen again"

[wintry spindle]

Yeah my DM one time didn't know what to do with that player. But it's because they were not sure if they could say no

[woven flint]

The most easy to retire character pf mine would be Bucket, my Starfinder Gangster/Mobster Rat Mechanic fellow, but he still needs to find out who murdered his dad and also give true sentience to his robot Son, S.A.K.R (Super Ass-Kicking Robot)

[crimson gulch]

they can allways say no

[wintry spindle]

I know. But he just didn't want to

It ended with us having to do a session 0 and start a new campaign

[keen kestrel]

Secretly, my pc wants to kill Strahd though, and knows exactly where he is and what he’s doing

[crimson gulch]

those sort of experiences hopefully shape a DM that knows how to enforce boundaries

[wintry spindle]

Then I had to say during session 0 as a player, "Hey make your adventures want to do the adventure presented. Don't let the DM have to force you to do the adventure"

"Why does my PC care about x thing" Well thats your job you made the pc

[woven flint]

"Why should my PC Care?"
Should be an instant red flag, imo

[crimson gulch]

i had someone show up to a one shot with objectives of their own, i was like no, welcome to the bone orchard roll for initative

[woven flint]

Like, YOU joined the campaign, your PC SHOULD care, dummy!

[wintry spindle]

I think sometimes if the campaign derails you sometimes as a player just have to go along

[woven flint]

Love your terminal montage Entei pfp btw lmao

[wintry spindle]

Like some modules start one place and end up a whole other place in the middle so the best you can do it just say "oh my pc is now invested"

It's a good pfp

[woven flint]

Barp.
Explosions

[blissful ibex]

I like https://dice.clockworkmod.com/ but you need to manually enter your numbers

[blissful ibex]

Mine just wants to maybe eventually get strong enough to do a little aboleth hunting but not really as a super pressing thing

[thorny ocean]

Thank you

[blissful ibex]

as a multiclass player you do aactually have to be cognizant of damage averages for your MC vs a single class character to make sure you stay within bounds and don't get left in the dust

[eager marsh]

Just don’t multiclass. Easy

[crimson gulch]

Yeah most multiclass players fall behind pretty bad

[eager marsh]

Especially after 2024 every class is better to stay single class than ever before and most themes don’t actually require Multiclassing

Many things people multiclass for can in fact be covered by just roleplay or taking a specific thematic feat along the way

[distant hamlet]

feats make so much possible

[eager marsh]

Yea. I wish we got more honestly.

Back in 3.5 feat slots were explicitly separate from ability increase slots

[lapis delta]

Is there a place to talk about a book or ask questions regarding a novel?

[lavish flame]

I think #dnd-media is the place for novel talk tbh

[hot marlin]

#non-dnd-topics

Or indeed #dnd-media. Possibly #dnd-lore depending on the nature of the question

[lavish flame]

Oh yeah I suppose #dnd-media would be for D&D novels, like Drizzt and Dragonlance, if you're just aksing about a novel it might be #non-dnd-topics

[lapis delta]

Okay my question is asking if I can read a certain book without have read any other dnd novels

[crimson gulch]

Which one?

[lapis delta]

Either ravenloft heir of strahd or spelljammer memory’s wake

Just wondering if I can read any of those without having read previous books

[pallid oracle]

any DMs that are knowledgeable about CR ratings around? I wanted to share a map I made with the enemies I have on it and im trying to decide the proper levels reqs for it

[glad arch]

Ever heard of xp budget? Better measure of difficulty then cr

[halcyon forum]

yeah the encounter building rules are more complex than "pick a CR"

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/dms-toolbox#CombatEncounterDifficulty

[pallid oracle]

I haven't. i can check it out, but since I already kinda built the encounter I was hoping for someone's idea of what I should run it for. my first go round was 5 level 5s and it was way too easy for them.

[glad arch]

Youd have to look up the exact numbers but basically it boils down to
-a player character decided the budget based on level, e.g. lvl 1 is 500xp lvl 5 is 3000xp
-multiply that by the amount of players you have for your total budget
-within this budget pick enemies, higher cr enemies have higher xp so youll be able to use less of them
-depending on how much youre over or under the budget makes the difficulty

[hidden fractal]

does anyone have a campaign with an open party spot playing within the next 2 hours

[glad arch]

*actually i believe the budget per character is given in several tiers between easy and deadly already so your encounter xp will fall somewhere there

[lapis delta]

Alright I think spelljammer memory’s wake is not apart of a series so thanks everyone who helped out

[wraith wasp]

What’s the difference between magician and wizard/sorcerer?

[glad arch]

Magician isnt an actual class in the game but a wizard learns their magic, sorcerers are born with it

[wraith wasp]

Sorcerers are too cool for books 😎

[naive cedar]

sorcerers r nepo babies

[glad arch]

Mechanically wizards have access to a lot more spells (then any class not just sorcerers) but sorcerers can modify their magic with metamagic

[wraith wasp]

Gasp, true

[naive cedar]

and wizards are nerds

[glad arch]

Nerd vs jock

Except they both die to a cat

[naive cedar]

nah sorcerers are theatre kids

[wraith wasp]

Nothing solves a problem like good ol fire ball

[wraith wasp]

???

[glad arch]

Low hp and low ac, they die quickly

[wraith wasp]

Druid?

[naive cedar]

they’re both really easy to kill in early levels

[halcyon forum]

thats a meme

[wraith wasp]

What’s ac?

[glad arch]

Armor class

[wraith wasp]

Ah I see, I’m excited to play, got super addicted to baldurs gate 😭

[glad arch]

The 8-9 hp wizard without any armor proficiency

Beauty

[patent plover]

whats up

[naive cedar]

at early levels wizards/sorcerers can have like 5 hp

[glad arch]

Nah you start with 6+con, for both you want atleast +2 in con anyways

[wraith wasp]

Do they at least get good after leveling up?

[naive cedar]

I meant if you dump con for some reason lol

[rugged hawk]

No.

[glad arch]

Survival? No. But yes they are good classes

[naive cedar]

They get more hp but it’s still low compared to the other classes

[wraith wasp]

I guess I just need a big strong paladin to protect me

[rugged hawk]

Nah, just cast Elemental Swarm

[wraith wasp]

What’s that? 😭

[glad arch]

Kill them before they get to you

[rugged hawk]

Elemental Swarm? 9th tier spell, summons a whole lot of elementals over time

[wraith wasp]

I got a lot to learn, exciting

[rugged hawk]

When the spell is complete, 2d4 Large elementals appear. Ten minutes later, 1d4 Huge elementals appear. Ten minutes after that, one greater elemental appears. Each elemental has maximum hit points per HD. Once these creatures appear, they serve you for the duration of the spell.

[glad arch]

At 9th level who needs hitpoints when you got the power of a minor deity

*9th level spells

[patent plover]

whats a good starter class for someone whos only played like three times

[glad arch]

What have you played those 3 sessions?

[wraith wasp]

Is the 2d4 their health? What’s HD?

[rugged hawk]

Hit Dice....? Their LEVEL?

[patent plover]

fighter

[glad arch]

How did you like it?

[patent plover]

i liked it, i kinda want something where i can use magic tho

[wraith wasp]

I’m like super new, I’m sorry

[glad arch]

Wanna go all the way magic or get a mix between martial and casting?

[patent plover]

mix

[patent jackal]

Anybody playing a run on dnd?

[glad arch]

May i introduce you to the humble paladin

?tag new paladin

[cosmic roost]

Paladin

Smite foes and shield allies with divine and martial might
Paladins are united by their oaths to stand against the forces of annihilation and corruption. Whether sworn before a god’s altar, in a sacred glade before nature spirits, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witnesses, a Paladin’s oath is a powerful bond. It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion.

-# Suggested Standard Array assignment
Str. 15 Dex. 10 Con. 13 Int. 8 Wis. 12 Cha. 14

Likes: Defense
Complexity: Average
Starting HP: 10 + Con. modifier

[glad arch]

Has the melee aspects of a fighter but also access to magic and spells

?tag new ranger

[cosmic roost]

Ranger

Weave together martial prowess, nature magic, and survival skills
Far from bustling cities, amid the trees of trackless forests and across wide plains, Rangers keep their unending watch in the wilderness. Rangers learn to track their quarry as a predator does, moving stealthily through the wilds and hiding themselves in brush and rubble.

-# Suggested Standard Array assignment
Str. 12 Dex. 15 Con. 13 Int. 8 Wis. 14 Cha. 10

Likes: Survival
Complexity: Average
Starting HP: 10 + Con. modifier

[glad arch]

^the other half-caster

[patent jackal]

what's a good recommendation for a dnd build similar to Shadow or Springtrap?

[lavish flame]

Shadow from Sonic? Best you're getting is Monk (Warrior of Shadow). Springtrap mostly seems to sneak around and stab people, so most Rogues seem to fit

[patent jackal]

anything else to help build my character

[lavish flame]

I might be a Halfling or maybe a Shifter for Shadow and a Harengon for Springtrap. Thats really it tho. These will not really feel like the character's they're based off of tho

[sleek cloud]

Dragonborn draconic sorcerer that had their hatchling shell mended and enchanted to use as an arcane focus

[quiet mist]

Heya dnd peeps

[glad arch]

Hello

[quiet mist]

I wrote this message many times. Thank god it finally got through

Discord crashed on my PC.

[burnt valley]

Springtrap with at-will Magic Jar

[woven flint]

Huh

[jovial shadow]

Shadow? The undead monster?

[delicate locust]

Does anyone know what a holy symbol would look like? specifically for Tyr, I know he has the warhammer with scales on top but how would that translate to a holy symbol? Also, can you put a holy symbol as a crest on a shield instead (even then I would prefer to use 2 handed weapons so not preferable)

[lavish flame]

Shadow the Hedgehog, the character in their profile picture

[lavish flame]

A Holy Symbol can be an Emblem on a shield or banner, yes. The Holy Symbol would be some depiction of a warhammer with scales on top

[delicate locust]

what part of shadow or springtrap do you actually want to embody as a part of your character? if its a combat thing then its different but if its the personality you like then i dont think there is anything stopping you from just roleplaying whatever build you would like that way

[jovial shadow]

Oh I don't know anything about that cartoon

[delicate locust]

if it is a seperately held object, would the holy symbol just be like a ring or something with a depiction the symbol on it? i just cant visualise how that works. like in my head, if you were a cleric and had the christian god as your deity you could hold a crucifix or something but i cant see the same with like a small warhammer with scales on top

[patent jackal]

Yes

[patent jackal]

The fact that idk how to play

[livid cargo]

guess im playing a jawa in my next campaign

[quiet mist]

OMG

I didnt know it had so many dnd communites.

Where have I been all this time!!!

🤯

[delicate locust]

what im asking is like, what part of them do you like that makes you want a built to be like them. is it about how they fight and you want to fight like those characters do?

[delicate locust]

also this makes no sense as a response to my question

[rugged hawk]

Utini!

[patent jackal]

the embody of the character

[livid cargo]

im playing a rock gnome artificer, when i get top level 3 im gonna choose battle master so i can have a gonk droid

and instead of a rock gnome hes a jawa

his name is Vik Kreez

[delicate locust]

like what? in dungeons and dragons there is basically 3 main things, roleplaying, combat and exploration. you can have the most personalisation when it comes to how they fight and how their personality. when you are asking what build to use, that basically only applies to combat since that will be affected by your class and other choices you make on the character, but roleplay - actually embodying the character's personality - that is just something you can do without any limits, but it will make no mechanical difference.

i just want to know, when you play, are you interested in actually fighting like shadow the hedgehog or springtrap? i dont know much about either but i know shadow the hedgehog is really fast like sonic so maybe choose the monk class as they can go a lot faster than other classes but the other things like super strength and immortality are not possible so just pick the aspect you liek the most or is more defining to their character like super speed so monk would be a good choice for that. I dont know how springtrap fights or really anything about him other than what he looks like

[patent jackal]

How does a reborn race sound for springtrap?

[outer whale]

Hellooo! I hope everyone is having a great time.
I'm looking for someone that's interested in roleplaying with a small group. Just a casual fantasy rpg with 2-3 others; would anyone like to join?1

[patent jackal]

Along with his class being a artificer

[delicate locust]

for who? springtrap? i dont know what he actually does, i know they are like animatronic robots that kill people

[blissful ibex]

you'll wan't to post in #looking-for-players

[delicate locust]

what is it about springtrap that you like and that you want to emulate when you are playing dnd?

[patent jackal]

I have my idea saved into a Google doc, it be better if id showed

[delicate locust]

dm it to me alright

[patent jackal]

Ight

[vague oriole]

can a player attack with other weapond when they attack with a flame blade as it is stated that the flame blade looks like a scimitar

2014btw

[lavish flame]

You would hold the small warhammer-scales statuette and cast spells with it like a priest holds a crucifix. Maybe you grab an amulet, maybe you hold up a symbol, maybe the symbol can be pointed, but you hold a small icon in your hands if its another object.

[delicate locust]

like the spell?

[vague oriole]

yes

[delicate locust]

the statuette is cool and i had it in mind but like, i didnt say it explicitly, but what i meant is that the idea of a warhammer with scales statuette seems flimsy in the way that a crucifix doesnt, what is a holy symbol usually represented as?

[lavish flame]

If you have like a dagger in one hand and the spell Flame Blade occupying the other, you could still attack with the dagger

It would just be a regular Attack action while ur concentrating on the spell

[hidden spindle]

If you mean with Extra Attack with Flame Blade, no. As the attack from the Flame Blade Spell is an Action. But not the Attack action

[lavish flame]

The scales don't have to be functional. There doesn't need to be any slack in them. This could be an entirely metal or wooden holy symbol. Holy Symbols look like whatever the god they're connected to decides

So like... Asmodeus' holy symbol is 3 triangles, and its commonly affixed to a branding iron. If you worship Asmodeus, you likely carry around a cooled branding iron as your Holy Symbol.

[delicate locust]

i jsut mean like, scales on top would just break, like a stone depiction of scales would have to be very intricate and thing and then it could break easily (i know its kind of a stupid thing to worry about its just for my own satisfaction i dont think any dm would ever care)

[woven flint]

No, because Flame blade is a Spell Attack and not a regular attack

[delicate locust]

i mean, i was planning on using a warhammer as my weapon so could i have scales affixed to my warhammer or like embossed onto the metal and have that warhammer also act as my holy symbol or does it need to be a seperate item?

[lavish flame]

For game mechanics, it needs to be either a seperate item or something affixed to a Shield

There's balancing involving being a caster and having weapons. Your hands can only hold so much

[stray atlas]

so here's a question

[blissful ibex]

2014 or 2024?

[icy matrix]

Well it's official yall the party has survived long enough to get some minis!

[stray atlas]

would y'all say that it's reasonable to say someone with a high ac but low dexterity absorbed the blow instead of dodging it?

[blissful ibex]

could have deflected or redirected the blow as well

[quiet mist]

What would happen if a Aasimar had a child with a Sharrd kai?

[stray atlas]

got called an idiot for saying that in another discord and it's bothering me

[modest wave]

Are play by post games common at all I want to find a group but I’m introverted so that’s what I’m looking for

[quiet mist]

when you find one let me know

[blissful ibex]

fairly common, yes; could also see if you could join a normal voice chat game, be in call muted, and write your responseds in the VTT/Discord if the DM is okay with that

[rugged hawk]

Excellent, give them some Falling Rock minis. TPK for everyone! 🎉

[modest wave]

Thanks

[delicate locust]

either, my dm doesnt care which edition. why?

[rugged hawk]

A lion does not concern itself with the opinions of SHEEP.

[stray atlas]

thanks but that is not helpful

[rugged hawk]

That's because you don't have the lion mindset

[blissful ibex]

for 2024; Could take the Eldritch Adept feat, grab the Pact of the Blade invocation, and either summon or bind a magical warhammer which has/gains the property to act as a universal spellcasting focus
it can also be manifested/summoned into your hand as a bonus action

the portion of the feature that replaces attack/damage bonuses with your CHA mod is optional so you can ignore that if you have lower CHA than the addtribute you're currently using, but you still get the benefit of optionally replacing the damage type with Radiant, Necrotic, Or Psychic damage if you'd prefer even if you don't

[snow zephyr]

A lion does not concern itself with the pains in his chest, for it is the heart begging for more energy drinks

[rugged hawk]

Mmmm, holy caffeine

[hidden spindle]

They live happily ever after.
Get a place to settle down in.
Bring their kid to school.

[rugged hawk]

And then all three get chopped up for wizard spell components.
The end

[quiet mist]

nahh

What happened to a happy ending story?

[rugged hawk]

It was a happy ending. For the wizard.

[quiet mist]

Damn I respect it

[snow zephyr]

Volo

[woven flint]

If an Aasimar has a child with a Shadar-Kai the child would probably be a normal Shadar-Kai from my understanding

[rugged hawk]

Ah yes, Volo 'icepick in the eye' Geddarm....

[woven flint]

I'm unsure if plane touched can produce plane touched children.

[quiet mist]

oh

itll overwrite the celestial dna?

[snow zephyr]

Volo's real nome de plume be "trust me bro"

[stark tundra]

I always see it as the same reason Percy Jackson can date annabeth

[snow zephyr]

There just becomes a chance your kid's gonna be a sorcerer now

[quiet mist]

I dropped the show, whats the reason for those that dont know?

[jovial shadow]

Traits and attributes of the children of PC's aren't addressed in 5e.

[snow zephyr]

Your son has wild magic now

[stark tundra]

Oh I meant from the books basically the godly side is icher not real DNA

[quiet mist]

actually makes sense.

[quiet mist]

ohhh

[stoic obsidian]

What if they become a bard instead?

[stark tundra]

That's just my take on it

Everyone is different like Thor in my worlds usually only has magni and modi

[blissful ibex]

IIRC, I liked the bit towards the end of one of the earlier books where they're (minor spoilers for a non plot relevant bit)||flying back from whatever it was they were doing and one of the characters is just casually shooting arrows into the bullseye of the sign of every Target store they fly by||

[quiet mist]

Then they populate the earth with children mixed with both good and misfortune.

[stark tundra]

I think that was luke

[empty thicket]

the son of a wizard and a druid would fit for this honestly

[woven flint]

Being an Aasimar isn't really a genetic thing.

[stoic obsidian]

Or terrible music

[empty thicket]

"yeah, my parents were the biggest adventurers of the century and there i am, dont being able to even control the magic that is inside of me"

[woven flint]

Neither is being a tiefling, truly

[snow zephyr]

Then I will remove them myself, no son of mine is gonna be a bard when there's options like cleric and barbarian

[stoic obsidian]

Cleric Barbarian?

[stark tundra]

I did that it's broken

[quiet mist]

couldnt it be from multiple reasons/sources?

[snow zephyr]

Clerbarian

[woven flint]

Yes, but it's typically not genetic

[stark tundra]

You can rage tank alot of hits then just heal yourself after

[stoic obsidian]

Barbabarian

[quiet mist]

Makes sense

[woven flint]

It's called being Plane Touched for a reason.

[stark tundra]

Bardbarian

[snow zephyr]

There's a lot of utility for clerbarians

[stoic obsidian]

Artbarian

[snow zephyr]

Show me on the interplanar aura where the plane touched you

[woven flint]

Being born doesn't really make you touched by a plane of existence unless you're born there.

You can also become an Aasimar at any point in your life

[stark tundra]

I know the worst combo it's called the coffee lock it's a sorcerer warlock

[snow zephyr]

Slaughter is an art all its own

[quiet mist]

tis isnt ban? I actually dont know

[empty thicket]

my bard is fey touched... the lore is he got lost one time and the feys kicked him out for being annoying and dumb....Its... my bard

[stoic obsidian]

Suddenly a family of barbarians, but each with a multiclass

[stark tundra]

A group of all fighters in a roleplay heavy campaign

[quiet mist]

Nice backstory. Its so good I can immediately read the character and his personality without actually reading them.

[snow zephyr]

Barbarians benefit from spellcasting when melee isn't an option

[stoic obsidian]

How about an all villager party

[snow zephyr]

Or when your cleric is down because shenanigans

[stark tundra]

I mean I have a cleric with 18 ac without armor granted he's like level 12

[jovial shadow]

There's nothing in the Aasimar's description that says they were "touched by a plane". It says they were either descended from an angelic being (born that way) or infused with celestial power (presuming a gift).

[snow zephyr]

Everyone laughs at you for taking levels in cleric until you pull them out of the fire with your big muscles and your healing magic

[stoic obsidian]

Never laugh at a cleric

[snow zephyr]

Imagine opening a tiny gift and you now have wings

[blissful ibex]

see, you just run a small autognome barbarian so the party wizard can cast catapult and yeet you at your foes when you're too far away /j

[stark tundra]

A war domain cleric can break all your fingers while naming the joints

[stark tundra]

The fast ball special

[snow zephyr]

Trickster goddess bestows you with aasimar status when you step out of a sauna

[stark tundra]

Technically you could kill strahd with a humidifier and holy water

Or a sauna and holy water

[snow zephyr]

This reminds me of the dungeon soup video

[stark tundra]

Yeah

Chaotic barbarian

[timid current]

how does holy water kill strahd in a humidifier or sauna?

holy water requires the attack action to damage undead and fiends

[quiet mist]

Through "emotional damage".

[cosmic roost]

No pings, please :pray:

If you see someone with “No Pings” in their name, please don’t @ that user. If you Reply to them, please turn the alert @OFF, and if you forget, a simple apology is appreciated. Thank you!

[empty thicket]

Yeah.... its...at least in combat he kinda locks in and give me haste and heal but you must add too that he is a forced pacifist. (Any attack roll he do will miss or get dodged//half damage)

[quiet mist]

ohhh thats what that meant, I feel dum, sorry!.

[timid current]

no worries!

[quiet mist]

Oh damn, whats his reason for fighting?

[empty thicket]

im asking him now, but i doubt would be something specific, can be easily "i need a work and in this one they didnt kicked me after the first mission"

[real patio]

Hi guys!

[snow zephyr]

"I will not tolerate the forces of evil"

[stark tundra]

Hello gkn

[quiet mist]

Yet he's a "pacifist", I guess hes becoming the very thing he dosent want to tolerate. AOT Eren vibes

[snow zephyr]

I may not be violent, but these guys are, and ye shall get your yer wages in the afterlife

[quiet mist]

Genuine question: I just thought of.
Does enforcing your world views on individual(s) make you, evil, good, or neutral?
Honest question.

[snow zephyr]

It ain't honest, but it's much work

[snow zephyr]

Depends on the views

[timid current]

I would say it depends on what you mean by enforcing your world views

[snow zephyr]

If you live in a world where eating babies is the default, then forcing your views of non-baby eating is good

[quiet mist]

Why would the persons views make any difference? Specifically is the act of enforcing your world views bad, good, or neutral?

[timid current]

say I'm a lawmaker, and I put into effect a law that says "don't kill people"

[snow zephyr]

The act of enforcement depends on the methodology and the idea, making it neutral

[quiet mist]

Interesting question, actually maybe I should as chat pt... 😉 Im curious.

[timid current]

that's forcing my world view onto people. is that good, bad, or neutral?

ew, why would you waste water and power on a bad answer from a garbage tool

[quiet mist]

Idk : (

I got my answer from you all tho, thanks.

[snow zephyr]

Conquering evil is inherently good and requires evil influence to become evil

[quiet mist]

This makes a lot of sense to me. Anyone has a different argument?

[quiet mist]

oof

[tranquil temple]

Has anyone played Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus? If so, how was it? How much roleplay was there compared to combat?

[snow zephyr]

It is certainly a module for 5e

[humble cairn]

Too vague to tell. Honestly Alignment is a terrible system to describe personality or psychology anyway, ignore it and just write a thorough character personality.

[tranquil temple]

Any specific things about it?

[pearl hedge]

i just got a circlet of blasting (scorching ray, +5 to hit!!!) for a new year's gift from my DM

[quiet mist]

hm, never heard this one before. So take Alignments as a grain of salt?

[snow zephyr]

This is more a description of your ontological views than the function of alignment

[humble cairn]

I'm not sure what that means, but if it means ignore it, then yes.

[pearl hedge]

no it's more that alignments dont take into account for moral grey scenarios and can't account for how your character acts the entire campaign

[snow zephyr]

Moral grey is an overused trope

[pearl hedge]

but it's true

[quiet mist]

jist saying apply the phrase ("dont judge a book by its cover") to alignments.

[snow zephyr]

If a lawful good character suddenly turns evil then it's bad writing

[pearl hedge]

actually i think it's kind of fun

[snow zephyr]

And one bad action doesn't immediately indicate an alignment change

[quiet mist]

I meannnnn....eh, if theres little to no reasoning.

[humble cairn]

Ehh .. but all of the Alignmentd are just entirely cover.

[naive cedar]

grey morality isn’t inherently bad but a lot of writers nowadays do it poorly imo

[snow zephyr]

Hence "suddenly"

[humble cairn]

Alignment is so badly explained in 5E that new players have to go online to find out how to actually use the system. Online they find that there is a different opinion for each "veteran" player out there. Leading the new player to have to basically do a mini research paper sifting through the various essays online to hammer out their own
understanding. This time would be better spent playing. Furthermore, Alignment has led to so many game breaking and table ending fights that its value as a system is in the negative in my opinion. I think it's actively harmful to the hobby.

[snow zephyr]

Grey morality is an overused trope, and furthermore it is sufficiently hard to do well to a point that it's best avoided

[timid current]

"do"

[pearl hedge]

that's not what i'm saying i'm just saying that the alignment section of character making is basically pointless because your character should react more ways than just being the savior all the time

[timid current]

it's kind of weird that having complex / multifaceted characters that aren't aligned to a 3x3 grid is an overused trope

[quiet mist]

A sudden horrific event could happen thats so horrific it change ones life forever. I think ik what your trying to say tho

[humble cairn]

Alignment is officially not even meant to guide your characters actions at all. It simply describes your post decisions and actions.

[snow zephyr]

Straw man, but go off

[quiet mist]

I just think sudden wasnt the best word

[naive cedar]

I wouldn’t say it’s overused: it’s only been the norm in writing in the past like thirty years. the problem with it is similar to the problem with plot twists and red herrings in modern media: bad writers see that it’s popular nowadays and just mindlessly copy it

[snow zephyr]

That's contextualized development

[quiet mist]

Really?

[humble cairn]

Yep, lemme find the section of the book...

[snow zephyr]

Sudden could just as well be replaced with random

[quiet mist]

that word to big for me : (
but thanks ill learn a new word today.

[quiet mist]

hmmm

A random horrific world view changing event could happen

[snow zephyr]

If a character is poorly roleplayed by the player sufficient to have random developments without any thought for context, then that's up to the player

[scenic zinc]

100% correct. The book literally says this

[snow zephyr]

Being good aligned doesn't necessarily mean you're a savior to all

[pearl hedge]

look having a lawful good character suddenly turn evil can work as long as they do it right

[scenic zinc]

Do I hear "heel turn"?

[snow zephyr]

That's called a plot twist, and it's usually terrible for party cohesion if it's a PC

[quiet mist]

"contextualized; contextualizing
transitive verb:

Meaning: to place (something, such as a word or activity) in a context."
I feel dum for not knowing this, the word legit told me what it means. 😭

[pearl hedge]

look i just think alignment is pretty much meaningless

[scenic zinc]

Then ignore it.

[humble cairn]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/creating-a-character#TheNineAlignments
"Broadly describes" is what the book says.

[snow zephyr]

I think not using alignment removes a lot of meaning

[quiet mist]

Oh i thought we was talking about writing in general across all media.

[scenic zinc]

That's fine.

[remote wadi]

Come to think of it, I think Fallout was onto something by making your character do a mini personality test when starting out

[quiet mist]

maybe, nothing is stagnate tho, things can change with the passage of time.

[pearl hedge]

we were talking about alignment within 5E raw

[scenic zinc]

If you think it's meaningless, ignore it. But that doesn't mean it is meaningless.

[snow zephyr]

Moral grey, yes. Both in the context of D&D and at large. See: "my edgy rogue"

[humble cairn]

I prefer using PBIF (Personality, Bonds, Ideals, Flaws) instead of alignment.

[quiet mist]

mmmm

[snow zephyr]

Vs RAI

[quiet mist]

lol

[scenic zinc]

It's literally the same in this regard.

How people implement it often is against the intent.

[pearl hedge]

honestly i think that works better

[snow zephyr]

That's... Part of the alignment selection...

[humble cairn]

Write yourself a thorough personality instead.

[quiet mist]

yeah

[timid current]

morally grey doesn't have to be "Edgy" whatever it is you think "Edgy" is

morally grey can simply be "not as committed as someone who is an extremist"

[naive cedar]

honestly I write my character’s personality and values first and base the alignment on that. alignment only factors into their personality if they’re a cleric or something

[pearl hedge]

i think he's saying write PBIF instead of using lawful good or chaotic evil alignment etc

[snow zephyr]

Moral grey is the progenitor of the edgy side of the hobby

[scenic zinc]

Morally grey is best left to late 90s early 2000s media, in my opinion.

[pearl hedge]

i used it as an example

[naive cedar]

I think people are confusing “grey morality” with edgelord media like Spawn or something

[quiet mist]

Hear me out. What if said character views themselves as an alignment that they are not. very interesting idea right.

[naive cedar]

grey morality can be as simple as nobody is pure good or pure evil

[remote wadi]

Just saying, taking 2 minutes to answer a few hypothetical questions could change quite a bit

[quiet mist]

yes hit the nail on the head

[snow zephyr]

When "moral grey" can be described as "tragic backstory" with that being a lesser reduction, there's a problem

[timid current]

yeah, the allergy to pathos is such a wierd antidramatic/ bland narrative mindset

[scenic zinc]

Which is, in my opinion, boring.

[quiet mist]

Maybe, In a world where everyone is honest.

[naive cedar]

the fallout games (well, the west coast ones) do grey morality very well imo

[timid current]

"your character has trauma or pain from their past? pshhh edgy"

[humble cairn]

Self delusion about one's own actions and decisions is an interesting Flaw, yes.

[quiet mist]

Love to hear it

[humble cairn]

Doesn't have to do anything with alignment still.

[snow zephyr]

When the focus of the character on trauma or pain becomes a whitewashing for the rest of their story, that's boring

[quiet mist]

Im aware 😭

[pearl hedge]

exactly being morally grey can also just be not choosing a side when there is good and evil defined

[quiet mist]

You really dislike alignment huh.

[timid current]

I encourage everyone to try making deeper characters than the 3x3 grid. "grey" if you like but "complex" and "driven by motivations rather than a bingo card"

[empty thicket]

depend how you do it and your approach and what ways to see the world
The "only the strong must lead" can be seeing in many ways, a good and a bad one

[naive cedar]

meanwhile something like (at the risk of kicking a dead horse) the recent Star Wars movies try to do “grey morality” but it doesnt really work

[timid current]

I don't dislike alignment. I simply don't care about it. it's an extremely limited tool that we have kind of transcended as a hobby

[snow zephyr]

Grey isn't intrinsically bad, but it is done to death and hard to do well. It is also often held as a stand-in for complexity

[empty thicket]

"only the strong must take the lead" can be taken like, the strong know more because for reaching that point they had to face a lot of problems
Anotehr way can be that the weaks dont must have voice, seeing it like some tyrant

[timid current]

can you define "done to death"

[scenic zinc]

I agree.

But also alignment is an after the fact thing, based on how the character acts in game, in a generalized way.

[humble cairn]

Instead of a vague 9x9 grid, why not try using a self written roleplay guide:
Personality - The default emotional “stance” of your character or their standing animation at the character select screen, if you will. This is how your character generally behaves when nothing else is going on.
Bonds - The people, places, and things that are important to your character, either good or bad. These are the connection points between your character and the game world, very important for integrating the character and the plot.
Ideals - These are your character’s ethics. This is where you state how your character believes people should behave.
Flaws - These are your character’s blind spots or things that plague your character in a way that drives the story forward and makes the plot more interesting, a built-in conflict generator. Usually they will be a kind of weakness in your mindset, but it can be anything else that consistently obstructs your character’s life

[quiet mist]

I was going to say something ][][ but rather hold my tongue, thanks for the insight tho.

[naive cedar]

All popular media nowadays tried to do “grey morality” and even IPs that it doesn’t work with are bent to fit that mould

[quiet mist]

Very deep convo already

[scenic zinc]

It's a simplified descriptor. That's all it is.

[quiet mist]

yeah, dont most do that already?

[snow zephyr]

Pop culture is drowning in "tragic villains" and "morally dubious heroes"

[humble cairn]

Sadly no. They didn't include this system in the 2024 update.

[naive cedar]

Also bad writers have a tendency to not realise that they themselves have moral codes that bleeds into their writing regardless of how “morally grey” they try to be

[timid current]

drowning... any recent examples?

[quiet mist]

💯 agree

[humble cairn]

I do love me a good sympathetic villain.

[quiet mist]

oh

[scenic zinc]

A sympathetic villain is not equivalent to morally grey.

[timid current]

I'll always be more interested in a villain or hero who has motivations

[naive cedar]

Another commonly beaten on example: The gamr of thrones show took the whole “the heroes never win” thing to ridiculous extremes with villains winning ridiculous outnumbered fighs and good characters suddenly turning evil

[timid current]

than a villain or hero who is bad or good because that's what's written down

[quiet mist]

I dont think they were imply that it was.

[empty thicket]

again, can be seeing in many, that is what i would put if it was a talk between idk, the BBEG and some of the party.

The BBEG talking with the fighter of the party, the only one without magical powers, without a religious attachment or some naturalist attachment for their class, etc. etc. Is something i would do in some campaign if i could.

[snow zephyr]

Ahem: invincible, the boys, the non-paroical superhero genre (seemingly as a whole), much of recent star wars (such as it is).

[scenic zinc]

If not, that was an incorrect understanding of mine.

[humble cairn]

Villains who are just cackling cartoons with no logical reason for doing what they're doing is a bit silly for me.

[empty thicket]

Wont deny one thing, sometimes a bad guy that want to just be bad, is easier to take.
If the campaign is more light just having a bad guy because is just bad would be okey

[naive cedar]

The last Jedi is a great example of this yeah

[snow zephyr]

It's not, but it is an example of moral grey executed poorly

[stark tundra]

I once made the bbeg a mirrored version of the party

[naive cedar]

I mean sympathetic villains arent inherently bad

[fast canopy]

YO I JUST REACHED LEVEL 1😎

[stark tundra]

Nice

[humble cairn]

I don't think they're bad at all?

[scenic zinc]

I don't see it as a problem, necessarily, to not understand the reasoning behind what the evil being is doing. Sometimes that's why it's evil - because it defies all reason.

[fast canopy]

Ik

[snow zephyr]

Not inherently bad, but often poorly written

[scenic zinc]

Sympathy isn't empathy. I think that's the misunderstanding here.

[naive cedar]

Another example of bad grey morality is trying to “redeem” a villainous character with a twagic backstory (cough Harry Potter)

[humble cairn]

Yeah sometimes they're not people, they're forces or the elements or something, but if they are people, I prefer a fully developed person.

[scenic zinc]

You don't need to empathize with the villain to sympathize with them.

[empty thicket]

I would if i can, make the BBEG have like his own party. Make a fighter BBEG with a rogue, wizard and someone else and make the protagonist party in some moment have duels with them and find a way to overcome it

[quiet mist]

I had to look up bbeg (Big Bad Evil Guy) to understand this. My apologies. yeah seems like a good approach. Would also prevent any religous character from losing their gods blessings/powers.

[timid current]

I think people are very very uuuh media illiterate - providing a reason for the villain to be compelling doesn't equate to redeeming them

[stark tundra]

Oh I legit meant a big bad evel group

[humble cairn]

The two aren't related. Sympathetic or not, villains can be well or poorly written.

[stark tundra]

Evil

[timid current]

like thanos had a whole reason he wanted to do what he did. it didn't make him right, it didn't even make him clever. it made him fun to listen to as a villain

[snow zephyr]

Yes, but volume has relegated the sympathetic villain to a caustic trope

[quiet mist]

OFC not, but whats a villain without a reason?

[timid current]

Vecna (ST) ||Had a tragic backstory and yet he didn't get "redeemed". you can feel sympathy or even empathy for a villain, but that does not provide a redemption, only interest.||

[quiet mist]

ye

[scenic zinc]

Even if it's a person, their reasons can be incomprehensible.

[humble cairn]

Hmm, maybe I haven't had the kind of exposure you have, because I don't feel this way.

[scenic zinc]

Plenty of real life evil people are that way.

[humble cairn]

Real life Evil is often bad storytelling.

[strange sorrel]

Hay I am sorry to bother you all but I am new here and I have a couple questions where do I go

[quiet mist]

"Perspective" So ye

[empty thicket]

Na, its more like, for me fighter is the most neutral and open class that you can do lots of things for it.
Like i wrote, the only one without magical powers directly, dont have any connection to a deity, good or bad, nature powers, etc. etc.
Its in some way, the most "powerless" and i like that, the BBEG approaching to it and talk with the fighter, someone that is and will be the bad guy of the story having a civilized talk with him, one of the heroes is something i find poetic.

[snow zephyr]

It's possible you haven't been looking for it, but once you see the tropes and writing patterns, they stick out like a sore thumb

[quiet mist]

What????

[blissful ibex]

#dnd-newcomers is a good place

[scenic zinc]

:v fair enough lol

[strange sorrel]

Ok thanks

[timid current]

having "a tragic backstory" isn't bad. and it isn't a button you press to "Redeem" someone. it's simply a way to provide motivation

[humble cairn]

This feels subjective, but I'm glad to have gotten your perspective.

[humble cairn]

Real world evil is often either too banal or way too traumatic for me to be including in D&D.

[snow zephyr]

It is that button when you're bad at writing, that same bad author's desk has a button next to it that says "pity the villain pwease"

[quiet mist]

really? well idk so cant so anything.

[snow zephyr]

It's not inherently bad, but it's been done poorly enough and frequently enough to earn its spot at the caustic trope table

[timid current]

I would disagree. bad writing will be bad writing. that's like saying punctuation is bad writing because bad writers use it

[snow zephyr]

It's the "my parents are dead" of rogues but for villains. It can be done well but usually it's garbage

[naive cedar]

or the “my wife died” of tough guy protagonists

[timid current]

there's nothing wrong with a character's parents being dead. just like nothing wrong with them being alive

[empty thicket]

I always prefer a good simple well made backstory than some complicated one.

[quiet mist]

Right maybe some things are just overused and misused and get a bad rep.

[timid current]

something that someone else overuses has no bearing on a game with my players

[snow zephyr]

You look me in the username and tell me you've not experienced the canon event of DM-ing for the edgy rogue who uses the "I'm an orphan" line at every opportunity

[empty thicket]

Making something like "yeah, i need money for paying a tavern i want to make and the fastest way to get it is doing adventures" is good enough

[quiet mist]

A complicated one can possibly be a good well.

[timid current]

anyone can pick any name they want

[empty thicket]

Yep, wont deny it, but in my preference, simple sometimes is better, Less is more

[snow zephyr]

It wouldn't make any more sense to say "look me in the eye" in this context

[timid current]

I don't care if your games have bad players, my players are great, and if one of them has a tragic backstory, they're going to use it for better play and narrative

[quiet mist]

Absolutely true tho.

[naive cedar]

lol rhats not even dnd exclusive. I used to roleplay for other fandoms a lot and i cannot tell you how many edgy characters with dead parents I’ve seen

[timid current]

get better players

[quiet mist]

What?

lol

[empty thicket]

Wont hold back a player to get a big backstory "yeah i was sold by my parents and with other kids were subjects to experiments and had to yara yara yara" stuff, anything can work if its made properly

[timid current]

not speaking at you right now, just the people who have bad players

[snow zephyr]

My players started out new, and they grew as roleplayers and people over time. I've also seen that trope so many times it causes me to roll my eyes when I hear the line

[timid current]

responding to the "my players are bad with tragic backstories" stuff

[marble tangle]

I’m going to start playing dnd when I get back to school. We play once a week. It’s a dnd club

[snow zephyr]

My players are great, but they started out with kinda trash stories like everyone else

[timid current]

so now that they're great, are they still unable to do pathos?

[empty thicket]

Only if they dont put in their backstory "yeah, i killed tiamat alone" or smt liek that, im good

[snow zephyr]

They can do it quite well without leaning on overdone tropes and moral grey

In fact, most of them can use alignment to generate pathos in a story

[empty thicket]

a friend happened that... literally said to that player that wont work and the player quitted

[snow zephyr]

Some are still learning how to do that

[timid current]

so would you say they are incapable of playing a character who has experienced tragedy?

[quiet mist]

*I think one main factor is that dnd players have to write a half finished story, definitely should get some lee way. Basically, their backstory, personality, etc, is an introduction to their character. They can change and evolve as the campaign or story progresses. *

[timid current]

or just that tragedy ina backstory is something you dislike, and would rather your players don't write with?

[naive cedar]

IMO if you’re going to do a tragic backstory, think of ideas for it that arent being done by everyone else, for creativity if nothing else

[rough basalt]

It's not inherently difficult to play characters with some tragedy, it depends on the character imo

[snow zephyr]

Tragic backstory is okay as long as it doesn't become a narrative black hole

[timid current]

why not think of the backstory that fits the character you're writing and don't worry about what other people have done in nebulous other games that we aren't involved in?

[humble cairn]

I mean you need some sort of narrative conflict to drive an interesting character. It doesn't always need to be tragedy, but it's a fairly easy one to use.

[timid current]

why would your capable players turn it into a narrative black hole - your players are great so that shouldn't be a problem

[remote wadi]

Is it just me, or is it very annoying that out of all the types of polearm weapons that are very similar, not one of them is a finesse weapon?

[quiet mist]

**Nail on the head. **

[snow zephyr]

It is easy, but I do enjoy seeing variety. Narrative conflict is fairly easy to generate even without tragedy

But it's not inherently bad or good, being overdone merely means that it's probably best avoided because the saturation takes the novelty out of it

[remote wadi]

I just feel like having a finesse polearm would be quite likely. Surely there are long reaching weapons that are actually lightweight and not totally dependent on Strength

[quiet mist]

💯

jist very overused

[timid current]

can you please clarify

[naive cedar]

That’s another thing: conflict doesnt always have to be about a tragic backstory. Your backstory can be “I’m interested in learning about x” or “I felt trapped/bored in my childhood and going on this adventure is exciting”

[glass granite]

A sword also isn’t that reliant on strength, but dnd just doesn’t really work like that for some reason

[quiet mist]

Lol maybe it wasnt supposed to be understood.

[timid current]

it doesn't. but it can be

[stark tundra]

How would y'all stat riptide

[snow zephyr]

Conflict as "I'm growing past my difficulties with other people" works as long as the character actually grows past it

[timid current]

I figure if one is trying to add to a conversation they should be clear about what they're saying

[quiet mist]

lol, alr, Back to orginal topic shall we?

[remote wadi]

Well, yeah, but like... that felt like a really missed opportunity

Maybe I could make a minor homebrewed weapon for that

[naive cedar]

Yeah but people should think about story ideas and backstories that haven’t been done 10000000 times. I agree with Master of Dungeons that, for example, jumping to “I’m an orphan” is often something people think up to create tragedy without thinking deeper about the specific aboht how that tragedy shapes a person

[timid current]

I mean at this point I'm very curious, I would really like it if this fella could be clear about what they're trying to say

if it's a sign they agree, that's awesome!

[quiet mist]

Right even a spin on a popular and overused trope is alr.

[timid current]

that's what I've been saying. good players can take any sort of story, tragic or not, and weave a compelling narrative

so can good DMs

[quiet mist]

Absolutely True.

[hot marlin]

The corollary is that bad players will take any story and form a boring or stupid narrative

[timid current]

sure, but we aren't dealing with bad players here

[naive cedar]

exactly

[timid current]

everyone involved has said their players are great, and I believe that

[hot marlin]

Certainly, I just like corollaries.

[blissful ibex]

I'm okay q_q, wouldn't say great

[quiet mist]

what are we talking about here again?

[naive cedar]

That’s what master of dungeons was talking about though: bad players. theyre not always avoidable. when I was joining random roleplays on (I apologise in advance) the warrior cats forums I wasn’t picking who I was playing with

[quiet mist]

lol

[blissful ibex]

don't engage enough with the RP pillar

[empty thicket]

bad players that arent willing to learn from their mistakes or wrong doings and fix them.

[quiet mist]

what, why? 😭

[empty thicket]

damn, idk if it pinged or not, sorry
But that

[snow zephyr]

There's also the issue of familiarity for new players

[hot marlin]

Wait, no, that's not a corollary. That's a contrapositive, isn't it?

[quiet mist]

Omg legit every time I think the same thing.

[timid current]

I mean the DMs involved here have said they have great players. yes bad players exist, bad writers, bad DMs, etc, but they will be bad regardless of tropes or pathos

[snow zephyr]

There's an important difference between bad players and new players

[blissful ibex]

I'm bad at it and get selfconcious >.>
like I do intereact and I'm working on it, but could do more

[naive cedar]

Yes but bad players tend to latch onto certain tropes. that’s the point

[timid current]

and then seals started appearing and the thing went off the narrative deep end, which I suppose is what they were trying to avoid

[snow zephyr]

New players latch on to them but learn to abandon them for new ideas

[naive cedar]

Also this. everyone’s first characters are a bit cringeworthy. bad players stick with them. good players think beyond those tropes

[timid current]

I'm fairly sure we were talking about existing great players though

[blissful ibex]

at least in talking games
am much better via text but that's different

[empty thicket]

saw a new player summoning Vecna and a god being lv 2....bad thing from the player for doing that
Bad thing for the dm giving them a monkey paw and dont giving them limits

[hot marlin]

Wait what? How would you even summon Vecna?

[quiet mist]

eh, I think any trope can be good or done well if written well. In this written well and played out well.

[timid current]

that's my opinion too

[blissful ibex]

And it was aaaall just a baaad dreeaaam

[timid current]

tropes aren't good or bad, they simply are - writing can be good or bad. playing can be good or bad. but a trope is just like a color it is dependent on who is holding the brush

[empty thicket]

monkey paw

[naive cedar]

By “think beyond” I mean not just writing a generic character

[ocean thunder]

Hi :))

[empty thicket]

no, it wasnt. The dm had to modify all his campaign for that, idk what happened after that

[timid current]

hi Eli, welcome!

[quiet mist]

Exactly.

[ocean thunder]

Thanks

I thought you were a bot

[empty thicket]

I would went for the "then everyone, at the singing of a roast, woke up. All dreamed the same thing, must be a signal of dont playing with powers one dont understand"

[timid current]

nope! just an old man with no class levels!

[blissful ibex]

literally just have Vecna refuse to show up

[quiet mist]

Is a generic character bad? Can a generic character be written/played good?

[blissful ibex]

wish wasted, try again later

[glass granite]

Gooood morning afternoon evening!

[naive cedar]

By “generic” I mean a character rhats very basic and has little interesting going on. Like the generic good guy fighter character

[timid current]

I think there were even people saying generic was better and pathos is bad. I think that as long as a player is playing the character that makes them happy, they're in a good spot and we can build a great narrative together with the rest of the table

[weary rock]

What’s the best multi class for fighter

[empty thicket]

again, bad for both side, would asked for a 30 minutes break, added a npc that stopped the wish and gave them a lesson about dont playing with such dangerous things

[blissful ibex]

Guy Dudeson, Human, Level 1 Fighter
Farm kid who got bored of farmin and decided to ply his trade at pest removal instead

[cursive fjord]

So question, im having this talk with my dm and would like some more input, we are currently playing Drakkenheim setting, and im playing a class specific from that setting, we are talking about spells and he says he would rather me discover the spells before being able to use them. Now my subclass and class immediately get access to these spells because im a prepared caster. This is almost like the equivilent of a Cleric having to find a spell before they can cast it. I see both sides of it and just wanna get more opinions.

[quiet mist]

heya, can you transfer some of your shiny username sparkles to me?

[snow zephyr]

No, I was talking about the gestalt concept of players and even DMs. My specific players are fine. My points were more conceptual and less localized

[timid current]

like luke skywalker!

[glass granite]

Go to channels and roles, then select Both for being a DM and player

[empty thicket]

Sincerely, depend of what you want to add.

[snow zephyr]

This is misrepresenting the points

[timid current]

I wasn't talking about you fella

don't you have seals to put on posts?

[weary rock]

Most damage?

[empty thicket]

Magic? Wizard is your best go. Lots of spell slots, int requirement only
More damage in general? Barbarian
Utility and more, cleric or bard

[naive cedar]

I like seals

[timid current]

crab eater seals have wacky teeth, have you seen those things?

[empty thicket]

Barbarian and fighter need the same requirement for multiclassing, strength so you have that for free without having to add points to stats that you wont use directly

[weary rock]

What subclass would work with barbarian

[quiet mist]

I forgot what i was going to say. damn

[glass granite]

If you want that try #optimization

[empty thicket]

wont know too much, i dont play too much barbarians

[timid current]

there's nothing wrong at all with generic "boring" characters. like I mentioned with luke skywalker - he doesn't even farm plants, he farms water. that's only a step above dirt farming! his character growth happened through the story

[quiet mist]

exactly

[blissful ibex]

barbarian is one of the classes that isn't super keen on multiclassing

[quiet mist]

ah (sht mb for the ping bro)

[hidden spindle]

Berserker!

[empty thicket]

I only know some of fighter
The class that dont give you a disengage because you arent disengaging.
You are standing your ground, or you drop dead the enemy or the enemy run away from you.

[snow zephyr]

Don't you have other people to sealion?

[naive cedar]

Tbh I wouldn’t call luke skywalker the pinnacle of masterful character writing

[timid current]

but by the same token you can look at someone like Chewbacca, who had a tragic backstory - enslaved by the empire after fighting a war on kashyyk

[humble cairn]

Every pillar is RP. RP =/= Social.

[timid current]

I wouldn't either. I'm saying that generic can still be compelling.

I merely said "nothing wrong with".

[empty thicket]

star was in general isnt good written for me, but that is off topic thing to talk

[naive cedar]

I think another issue here is that good and bad writing is subjective. I personally think the grand theft auto games are cringeworthy but a lot of people love them, for example

[quiet mist]

Definity

[blissful ibex]

not really? Combat and exploration are kinda RP but way less intense
if it involves charisma rolls, I'm likely not super comfortable being put on the spot with it >.>

[timid current]

kinda going afield from the point here - I'm just saying that "generic" or "tragic" both have value and can both be done in a compelling way

[naive cedar]

I love Star Wars but the character writing in the old movies is very simple. you’re right though

[snow zephyr]

Take the VtM version of RP as compared to D&D

[quiet mist]

brb

[timid current]

it's fine to love , hate, or not think about star wars. the point was more that luke and chewie have two drastically different backstories (simple/generic vs tragic) and they can both be compelling

[humble cairn]

Again "RP" doesn't mean social. It means acting in character, which you can do by describing your fighting style or how you prep for the wilderness.

[quiet mist]

Cant it mean both

[snow zephyr]

Narration=/= RP

[blissful ibex]

but there is social RP and there is that sort of RP, They're both RP but very different sorts of in character play

[humble cairn]

Social is one of the pillars, along with combat and exploration, but ALL of them are Roleplay.

[quiet mist]

ahh ok i see what your gettting at. Basically yea just being in character.

[blissful ibex]

see, that's what I needed to be told; thankyou

[lavish flame]

Roleplaying is not exclusively "the act of speaking to another character in-character" is the main point. You roleplay by expressing your character at all times

Kratos roleplays in combat differently than Master Chief, for example

[blissful ibex]

socal, I have issues with the social pillar

[glass granite]

I have issues with exploration, though primarily designing exploration as a DM

[quiet mist]

people have the same problem in real life. Experience is your best friend.

brb

[empty thicket]

Yeah.... something that happened me already some times... some players dont roleplay too much and are mostly shy.... that its okey, i get it in some ways but that.. doesnt help to make it fun

Less if after more than 5 sessions is still the same level of shyness

[humble cairn]

Yes, it is a skill like any other. You can start out inexperienced and get better with practice.

[snow zephyr]

Exploration is funny in some ways, you can either kill everyone by accident or it's basically irrelevant by class selection

[timid current]

combat is a form of conversation. unless you're albert wesker then it's just a bonkers screaming match with fists

[blissful ibex]

See, I play one of those 'irrelevant by class selection' classes but I still want it to be there because being able to do cool stuff the class was literally designed around is nice\

[hidden spindle]

I've been trying to do something about that. Perhaps have'm roll on the Random Magic item tables.

[glass granite]

Man, I wanna be a player in my main dnd group (we’re friends).
I can’t waitttt

[snow zephyr]

As a DM I want my players to succeed. But I still want them to have to burn a revivify every now and then

[blissful ibex]

but like

• make random encounter tables
• don't bring them to the immediate area of whatever objective and have them need to look around a bit
• chase sequences
• tracking sequences
• obsticles like rivers that have overflowed their banks, weather, hazards, etc
• use the Extreme heat/cold rules
• actually keep track of rations/water/feed and have the druid/ranger burn slots on goodberry and create/destroy water if that's the plan

[glass granite]

Yeah I have had a player bring up that it feels like there isn’t enough in-between for my plot points