#dnd-lore

100669 messages · Page 101 of 101 (latest)

jagged apex
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and specifically a mummy lord as they are known these days, as other times mummies are made as undead guardians with no real will of their own

safe plank
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2e had them as quasi-accidental in a lot of cases. And weirdly, positive infused. It was supposedly why they were resistant to turning. They weren't 'undead' strictly speaking, the ancient dead were like a weird not-life

calm crest
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Yeah, the positive energy typo meant for some interesting lore implications, making AD&D mummies essentially 3.5 Undying years earlier.

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Thematically it kinda makes sense that positive energy would rapidly empower the leprosy bacteria for its deadly touch.

safe plank
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The old untyped creature days were kinda fun because you'd have people arguing over whether something was 'undead' or just a monster

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Like Devourers

calm crest
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Or, famously, shadows.

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Or banshees.

jagged apex
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and the obscure Archlich, not to be confused with archliches like vecna XD

safe plank
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Baelnorns too, the elven guardian lich things

jagged apex
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yeah but those are less obscure, hence why instead i mentioned the Archliches

safe plank
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Does make me think of all of the 'not-actually-undead' monsters

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Like the adherers

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Who just LOOK like mummies

calm crest
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Not to mention pseudo-undead, which also look like undead.

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-# I once ran a pyramid dungeon crawl where the upper levels had been taken over by pseudo-mummies who used adherers as guard dogs.

coral grove
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Is there an equivalent of how the feywild has fey to the shadowfell having a native creature type or something? Sorry if the question doesn’t make sense

calm crest
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Not really. There are many Undead associated with it, but also shades (Shadowfell-touched Humanoids) and sorrowsworn (Monstrosities that embody the negative emotions of the realm).

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Sorrowsworn are probably closest as embodiments of the plane, but spells generally most closely associate it with Undead.

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It also has more shadow-touched beings like shadow dragons (which are Dragons) and shadar-kai (which are Humanoids or Fey).

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This is likely due to the fact that 4e essentially combined the Demiplane of Shadow, the Demiplane of Dread, the Demiplane of Moil, and a few other ideas into the Shadowfell rather than it being more or less a continuation of the Plane of Faerie like the Feywild is.

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So it has less of a cohesive identity.

coral grove
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Interesting

unkempt elm
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What contributions have Vampires made to Faerun? I'm thinking a zealous god who came into power erased vampires on a conceptual level (aka vampires never existed)

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But what would be lost if vampires never existed?

jagged apex
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people would definitley be confused and surpised at the disappearance of Shulgi, may even draw the attention of his patron deity, Mask

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he was how ever one of the less evil vampires, relatively speaking at least

unkempt elm
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Sorry I mean like a faerun where vampires had never existed, not that they ceased to exist

jagged apex
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honestly a deity doing such a thing successfully would be unlikely in the realms, but they certainly could make the attempt

unkempt elm
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Like if the concept of dragons never existed, there would be no kobolods, dragonborn or advanced air defense systems

jagged apex
unkempt elm
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Because dragons were the necessity that prompted these inventions

jagged apex
unkempt elm
jagged apex
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the dragonborn, would be more tied to the existance of draconic life, but kobolds and advanced air defenses not so much

unkempt elm
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Like with more depth than just "oh I hate vampires"

jagged apex
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besides even in the attempt they would not retroactively remove vampires from the setting, just cuz gods in dnd exist beyond linear time does not mean they can just change the past how ever they wish

calm crest
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That’s not really a lore topic.

willow fog
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Wait this is dnd lore?

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Oh sorry I had the channels compacted

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My bad man

calm crest
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You’re all good.

willow fog
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Anyway

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Sorry I crashed this convo, what were you taling about? Im sure its interesting

unkempt elm
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Just what a world without vampires would look like if they were retroactively erased

jagged apex
willow fog
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not.. much better.

unkempt elm
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Like if thirst as a concept was erased, drinking culture wouldn't be as significant

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Since alcohol used to be a way to hydrate yourself safely

jagged apex
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concepts in dnd lore don't just "get erased"

willow fog
jagged apex
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and if you are using real world history and that to make some of these assumptions, you shouldn't as that is flawed logic

unkempt elm
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I'm thinking "what if they never existed" not "what if we killed them all" for this person's worldview

jagged apex
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they wouldn't really know

willow fog
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its way easier to kill vampires in 2024

unkempt elm
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True I just wanted to provide a similar analogy for this situation

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True but consider this guy is a hater of the highest degree

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Fair enough if it's difficult to pinpoint I'll probably just have to logic it out

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By assuming all notable vampires don't exist and just subtract a good amount of their contributions to society

willow fog
unkempt elm
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Yes and since as long as a concept exists, it may come back, he wants to purge the idea itself

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Like there'll almost certainly be some guy who's like "I wanna bring back vampires"

jagged apex
# unkempt elm By assuming all notable vampires don't exist and just subtract a good amount of ...

at most they may remember a time before vampires came into existence, but that is different and to my knowledge we don't have any one singular sort of answer to such a hyper specific question, if you want to even hope for such an action, i suggest asking the creator of the forgotten realms setting, which includes the world of toril and it's continent of faerun, Ed greenwood, via twitter/X or something

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though if you ask me there is no real point to trying to figure out such a difficult thing unless you are explicitly trying try to make a version of the forgotten realms where vampires never came into existence

unkempt elm
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Fair I think I can have the entity's thought process be a little more shallow

jagged apex
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shallowness has nothing to do with it

unkempt elm
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I mean shallow as in he doesn't explain his reasoning as deeply

jagged apex
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vampires are undead predators and thus unnatural in nature and hostile to life like most undead, for a god especially one tied to things not rooted in evil, undead, or necromancy that is plenty of reason

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gods and equally powerful entities are not ment to be judged by mortal standards, they function beyond what mortals as people do

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most mortals who have become deities had to abandon their "humanity" for lack of a better term to actually do their duties as a god more effectively and properly, the exception to this mainly being the dead 3 which to my knowledge are the only mortals turned deities in the realms that still think and opperate much like just really powerful mortals

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and gods like kelevor have clear dislike for undead in general, not just vampires

charred topaz
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Do spell level system exist in lore? Or the spells are learnt based on their difficulty?

jagged apex
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not to my knowledge, i could be wrong though, but stuff that was above 9th level in the realms was known in universe as high/epic magic

jagged apex
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and besides to my knowledge there is not even any sort of universal standardized education in dnd, let alone specifically for magic, and such info would at best be dependant on the setting in question

sinful yacht
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Hi so I have a question

willow fog
sinful yacht
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Sooo i am reading about the tiefling I have 5.5 edition so yea im new and I was seeing that they are humanoid creatures of fiendish parts yada yada so im confused were they born into it or they made a deal with a devel type thing to become a tiefling

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Like i am confused

sterile breach
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In 5e/5.5e, it's more or less a matter of ancestry: somewhere along the line, a fiend and some other species produced offspring.

sinful yacht
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Ohh ok

jagged apex
calm crest
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Or you became “irradiated” by the energies of a Lower Plane, so to speak.

jagged apex
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and also neither, as they could be also exposed to extra planar energies, in this case those of the lower planes

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and this is nothing new lore wise, it has been in the lore for a long while now

sinful yacht
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Im still new to dnd I got into it from the hit game bg3 mainly cuz of karlach

jagged apex
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they much like their celestial counter parts, the Aasimar, are what it known as planetouched

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tieflings sadly often get unfairly treated do to assumptions people tend to have on their nature, which are not even correct to be clear, similar to half-orcs, but possibly even worse

sterile breach
jagged apex
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the 5.5e stuff in the core books is basically setting agnostic, the lore that is not bound to any specific setting, as the lore of specific settings can change the context of something drastically

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for example how orcs are seen in the forgotten realms and similar settings compared to the likes of the eberron setting

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for context, bg3 is set in the forgotten realms setting

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and largely sticts to the established lore pretty well with minor deviations

sinful yacht
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Ahhh

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So let's say for forgotten realms the people there are really (im not a Yulazd trying not to get [redacted] or [data expunged] from here use lingo jam dnd abyss translator the upcoming parts) Zi as dtx puy yxuqkz kizd yulx uyx yulazdz dinuywz daxpqasf

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Yeah I use abyss language to try to be pg 13

jagged apex
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well i have no idea what you are saying

calm crest
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I will note that Rule 7 of this server is that you must send all messages in English.

thin zephyr
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If for some reason you want to hide text, just use the spoiler tags

jagged apex
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also, can't really expect a response if nobody knows what you are saying

charred topaz
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They don't have concept of level in spells in lore?

calm crest
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Some cultures, such as the Netherese, certainly seem to be aware of certain levels of spells.

jagged apex
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yeah levels in regards to spells rarely if ever come up in the lore, honestly i was not even aware of the instance thanazrael pointed out

jagged apex
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he also describes the effects of the spells in detail, my favorite such details is regarding magic missile, so much more subtle yet brutal than one typically assumes form the game mechanics

jagged apex
charred topaz
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Ah so basically spell scaling is similar to Skyrim (game) in DnD lore than the game mechanics in DnD itself?

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They can cast it as many time they can as long as they have the mana?

hollow plank
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No mana in DnD RAW, Vancian magic instead

eternal ice
calm crest
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1950, actually.

eternal ice
calm crest
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Eyes of the Overworld was 1966, thus also predating OD&D, but it doesn’t focus as much on fire-and-forget magic as the original collection of short stories.

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And Cugel’s Saga and Rhialto the Marvelous wouldn’t have come out until the 80s, well into the 1e era and used that system even less, with the final book focusing on sandestins as the main form of casting for accomplished magicians (essentially Wish magic using demons/genies).

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Eyes of the Overworld as well as Leiber’s The Unholy Grail are the sources for thiefly types being able to cast from scrolls in D&D.

eternal ice
calm crest
jagged apex
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certain spells are just known to be more powerful or use a lot more magic than others, rarely if ever will you see it reffer to in universe by mechanical terms like classes or spell levels

calm crest
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We also know that on Aelos, an alternate world in the Mystaran multiverse from module CM6, they are aware of spell levels, as the library of all magic there is sorted by spell level.

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(Which seems to imply generally that BECMI characters are supposed to be aware of spell levels.)

jagged apex
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so at least in the realms, you'd hear them as being tied to circles of magic, rather than levels

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higher level equals higher numbered and thus more complex circle of magic, if using that termanology

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and as the note on the wiki points out "The term "circle of magic" serves as an in-universe equivalent to the mechanical term "spell level"."

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so for example a 9th level fireball would likely be called a "fireball of the 9th" or something to that effect

calm crest
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-# So I did remember correctly that Circles are the canonical terms!

jagged apex
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yep, at least we know this to be the case in the realms, other settings is debatable at best far as i know

charred topaz
calm crest
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Although in the time of Netheril, arcane magic was based on the number of Arcs expended rather than the memorization of spells (essentially a mana system) before Karsus ruined the Weave.

jagged apex
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yeah but magic and how it works, especially on toril, has changed since then, so unless you time traveled to before karsus' folly such a system would be obsolute and not helpful at all XD

calm crest
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(I only bring it up as chronomancy has been expressly revived in 2024 via the new FR sourcebook.)

jagged apex
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yeah, long story short, before the event in the realms history known as "karsus' folly" and the outcome of that event, magic on toril and how one used it worked fundamentally differently compared to modern times, is why you had terms like arcanist instead of wizard usually when reffering to casters of the arcane nature

jagged apex
# calm crest (I only bring it up as chronomancy has been expressly revived in 2024 via the ne...

i honestly kind of softly considered it revived once exandria content focused on it, treating the term used in that book as simply the in universe official term of that setting, like it was what was agreed upon by the most respected mages, kind of like when coining the term or name for something new in science in our own world, nice to know a more direct and formal first party source has confirmed the return of such magics

charred topaz
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This is a lot to take in

eternal ice
jagged apex
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and the time period of said setting

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cuz as thanazrael pointed out, during the time of the netherese empire they had a different classification system that was presumably the most popular on toril at the time

charred topaz
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Hmm so circles of magic for forgotten realms in current age?

jagged apex
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yep

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or well, the most recent era, as technically even the latest points we know of in the timeline are past tense, is weird, but for simplicity you could call it the current age, ie the 1500s DR

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i believe the current books take place in 1501 DR to be precise if i am not mistaken

low robin
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Is Vecna still like canonically in the entities realm from the game “Dead by Daylight”?

feral lintel
low robin
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I do know that like in lore he IS supposed to like leave and/or conquer the realm

low robin
feral lintel
low robin
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Oh right

jagged apex
jagged apex
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but meta wise it is more so because it is a seperate continuity and version of him

low robin
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That’s kinda poopoo

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I liked the games being connected

jagged apex
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dnd has always had multiple continuities, not everything is shared between 1 universe to another

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it does not make either of them any worse

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they are connected, just not in the way you thought

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i will admit i know little about the lore of "dead by daylight" but from what little i know, vecna is both too old, powerful, and skilled in magic that that entity could hold him, especially with the situation being very similar to the time to dark powers held him captive in the domains of dread and he escaped that long ago

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plus when you cross universes and continuities often time becomes near meaningless, especially since in dnd gods already exist beyond linear time

unkempt elm
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Unfortunately they don't allow pics in this server but in level 22 Dungeon of the mad mage, there exists these weird orbs in every room

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What the heck are they???

jagged apex
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have you read the book?

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cuz it likely has some description somewhere, so i'd make sure you did not over look it first

calm crest
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Do you mean the 40-foot tall pillars in most rooms?

jagged apex
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well they said "wierd orbs" does not sound like a pillar to me

unkempt elm
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There's 38 different orbs in just T2 of Shadowhusk

jagged apex
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still seems worth reading, especially if wanting to know what they are if the info is potentially right there

unkempt elm
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Like I doubt it's pillars since some of them are just like...in the middle of hallways

calm crest
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If you’re referring to the circles on the map, they are explicitly support pillars for the vaulted ceilings.

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That’s why they’re a bunch of circles colored the same as the walls and often in the middle of hallways or outlining a room.

random sail
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Where do werewolves go when they die

jagged apex
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same place as any other mortal

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the is no "werewolf only" afterlife

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certain gods in some settings may claim their souls though do to being associated with werewolves, for example in the realms we have selune for good lycanthropes and malar for evil lycanthropes

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werewolves are a specific kind of lycanthrope, which in dnd despite what it means in the real world is a general category of werecreatures who's natural forms are some kind of humanoid

tribal quest
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So, may I ask any lore about clerics?

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So....I watched this documentary that exposed the false prophet and cult leaders, which would inspire the new background draft for my PC

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Can Cleric do whatever these faithful healers do for real?

jagged apex
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was it dnd specific?

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if the documentary was not speciifcally clerics in dnd, then it basically holds no value

tribal quest
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Yeah

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I wanna align it with what a cleric can do in D&D

jagged apex
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but yeah, clerics can heal people, healing magic is rather common among clerics

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i suggest you read the class, flavor text, mechanics, the whole nine yards, as these things are more or less answered, especially with the newer setting agnostic books

tribal quest
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I mean, curing cancer, making the blind people see, making the paralyzed people walk and even resurrecting the death. Can they do that?

ionic rivet
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In D&D game mechanics yes. As for documented official D&D lore about clerics... I can't think of anything beyond "it's just been a part of the game ever since there was a "healing" class."

jagged apex
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yes, there are spells that can do that, which clerics get access to typically, but it is not necessarily gunna be like the stuff you are probably thinking, read the class and lore in the books first, get a grasp of the basics, then go from there

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is a lot more productive and time saving in the long run vs just asking every possible little question based off a similar trope or archetype in media

tribal quest
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What other books can I read beside the PHB?

jagged apex
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a lot of other cleric lore is gunna be setting specific and range from mechanics and adventures to novels and other media

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like i said, just worry about the basics first, odds are a lot of your questions will be answered from that

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not every single subject is gunna have books upon books upon books to read, plus depending on the edition some may not even be relevant

ionic rivet
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In the Dragonlance novels there is Goldmoon, a barbarian princess with a mysterious magical staff, seeking clerics to explain the lost gods. The character has a lot of cleric flavor if you're looking for how some D&D media portrays them.

tribal quest
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So, in a basic D&D setting....what makes a cleric a fraud?

jagged apex
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no

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your logic is heavily flawed

tribal quest
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My PC has a past enemy who is a cleric

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Well, I guess I need a lot of brainstorming if I wanna align my PC backstory to any basic D&D setting

jagged apex
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there are clerics of good and evil deities, they are not "frauds" like i said, that documentary has nothing to do with dnd, so has little to no relevants to a cleric in dnd

jagged apex
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dnd has not had a "basic setting" or one singular one for a long time

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and a lot of setting specific lore can change or be the same from a case by case basis, so if wanting to be able to fit into most settings as easily as possible focus on sourcebooks and info that is known to be setting agnostic, like the 2024 core books for example

jagged apex
ionic rivet
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?tag new cleric

vital cloudBOT
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classCleric Cleric

Invoke divine magic to heal, bolster, and smite
Clerics draw power from the realms of the gods and harness it to work miracles. Blessed by a deity, a pantheon, or another immortal entity, a Cleric can reach out to the divine magic of the Outer Planes—where gods dwell—and channel it to bolster people and battle foes.

-# Suggested Standard Array assignment
abilityStrength Str. 14 abilityDexterity Dex. 8 abilityConstitution Con. 13 abilityIntelligence Int. 10 abilityWisdom Wis. 15 abilityCharisma Cha. 12

Likes: Gods
Complexity: Average
Starting HP: 8 + Con. modifier

ionic rivet
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"Clerics draw power from the realms of the gods and harness it to work miracles."

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^ If they are a cleric, they do that.

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If they are fraudulent... then they pretend to do that.

jagged apex
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and in some settings like eberron, it is less the gods, as unlike most settings the gods are not confirmed entities that factually exist, so they work more so in serivce of devotion to philosophies and principles than conventional deities

tribal quest
jagged apex
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which is a valid take on a cleric for your games unless your dm specifically says otherwise but that is beyond the purpose of this channel

tribal quest
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Even one of my friend's PCs come from Middle Ages

ionic rivet
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Great - but here in this channel we discuss official D&D lore from official sources

tribal quest
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Anyway, may I know what is basically Errebor?

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I know it's the birthplace of Warforged

jagged apex
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eberron is a sepcifc setting with a selfcontained cosmology that is hidden a way and cut off from the rest of the multiverse

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it has it's own rules of things like divine magic, it's own planes of existance, where as most other published settings share the same cosmology that makes up the various layers of dnd's multiverse

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if you wanna know specifics, i suggest either exploring and reading the eberron wiki, watching lore videos on the setting and it's lore, or reading the eberron specific sourcebooks for which ever edition you are gunna be playing in

tribal quest
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Speaking of multiverse, how vast is Multiverse in D&D?

feral lintel
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vast

thin zephyr
jagged apex
oblique dirge
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the number of material planes is functionally infinite

jagged apex
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and the likes of the outer planes are infinite if not near infinite in scale, and that is without counting multiple timelines, continuities, ect...

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also the outer planes are basically metaphysical realms tied to combinations of alignments based on mortal believes and philosophies and are basically "the afterlife" collectively in dnd

oblique dirge
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there's different cosmology models across different editions which includes the material plane(s)
the outer planes, which are the realms of gods, devils, demons, and any number of otherworldly beings
the inner planes, which are composed of the elements & energies which make the multiverse (elemental planes, etc)
the far realm & beyond, which exist outside of everything else

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the Planescape setting covers a lot of the non-material planes and is quite fascinating

jagged apex
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again, i suggest just reading the core books espeically the newer setting agnostic ones, as it has a whole chapter decicated to explaining the core basics of the multiverse, ways to travel it, including between different planes of existance and not just different worlds, ect...

jagged apex
oblique dirge
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yeah the older editions have a wealth of books and info on all those extra planes
i like to think they still exist in my own personal headcanon for the cosmology

jagged apex
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but each edition much like it each form of media, is it's own continuity

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is just the editions semi lead into each other, newer editions going further in the timeline generally, but some specific details may differ from continuity to continuity

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they had a whole article a while back that explained the whole continuity thing, but is way harder to find if at all possible these days for what ever reason

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but just try to keep in mind that as far as your table is concerned, that is it's own continuity and regardless if you are using an established setting or not, that is your table's own version and is only as bound to the published lore as the dm and the players at said table force it to be, again this channel is simply what is and what isn't published in the lore they put and sell in things like adventures and sourcebooks

unkempt elm
jagged apex
unkempt elm
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Ah gotcha. Must just be for cover then

jagged apex
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unless said otherwise, they are just pillars so the room in the dungeon does not collapse and cave in

unkempt elm
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Yeah that's what I assumed but wanted to make sure since I don't have experience with that module

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I'm making the entire map in Dungeondraft for reflavouring so it's a fun ride to guess their intent

jagged apex
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well it can be used for cover, but as far as the in universe construction is concerned, it is just to allow the room to exist without the weight of everything above ground crashing through and crushing the entire contents of the room

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they are just pillars, if you wanna sup them up in some way that is up to you

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the owner of the dungeon may be known as "the mad mage" but being insane does not mean every little thing in his dungeon is some rediculous or convoluted trap, contraption, or what have you

feral lintel
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||Its mostly empty rooms... Halaster really needs to populate rooms with more traps||

jagged apex
feral lintel
oblique dirge
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the intern

feral lintel
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too busy ripping themselves apart

jagged apex
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pretty sure he was still operating out of it before he went mad

feral lintel
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... i should have him go to therapy for my Mad Mage game.

jagged apex
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that makes me realize, i have no idea if the realms even has the concept of "therapy" as a normal thing

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i mean given he is insane and lives in a massive underground dungeon, i doubt he'd go to such a thing of his own free will even if they did have such a thing

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plus he is a powerful mage, so there is the risk he'll just fireball or lightning bolt, or what have you his would be therapist if he gets annoyed or feels insulted

tribal quest
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How does one travel from a universe into another?

oblique dirge
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generally by way of spells like Plane Shift or Gate
the former of which requires a specific item that acts as a 'key' to that plane, the latter requires a very expensive component (5000gp diamond)

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there's also pre-existing portals in some planes which go places, those are up to the DM and can be setting-specific

calm crest
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Also kinda depends on what you mean by “universe.”

oblique dirge
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in some settings there's also Spelljammers, which are specialized ships capable of traveling through the Astral Plane, a vast void-like infinite expanse that exists between planes

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some magic items may also be able to provide transport, such as the legendary item 'Cubic Gate'

velvet axle
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If Xanathar can have an accountant, Halaster can have a therapist 😅

twilit creek
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Can mimics change shape over time to fit different needs

jagged apex
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what do you mean? mimics don't do things for any needs besides trying to get their next meal

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and they are natural shapeshifters but in the lore their shapeshifting is a bit more limited than the game mechanics may lead you to believe

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like far as i am aware your question does not make any real sense, so potentially need more context, else you may be misunderstanding some of the published lore, or potentially confusing it with someone's homebrew

silver anchor
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It’s possible they mean the DM’s needs. Mechanically of course the answer is clearly YES considering it says so right in the stat block. But I’ll leave any lore related reasoning to Scarletsteam

jagged apex
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well this is the channel for published lore, if speaking mechanics or a dm sepcific thing i'd ask in either #dnd-rules or #dm-discussion

tame root
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Revivify

-# 3rd Level

You touch a creature-

wait a creature? not a humanoid? why is the restriction on who you can cast spells on so arbitrary? like this third level spell can be cast on any creature at all, but I can't cast hold person on a cat because they are not a person? ridiculous who made up these rules in lore.

"yes you can revive a dragon, but you can not hold the dragon still, even if the dragon IS SHAPED LIKE A PERSON, their still not one."

like is this even a lore thing who made these spells? did they do this one purpose? like do creature types matter for spells like this (hold person)? it just makes no sense to me, of course I know why like duh but also is this justified, I feel like in cases where a dragon changes to look like a human their should be consequences for that action they litirally get to have their cake and eat it to, they are treated like a dragon when they are a human, it just makes no sense really why would a dragon ever stay in their dragon form if they could still kick our butt in human form and keep most of their advantages, while being a smaller target? atleast that's what seth can do I don't know to much about other dragons lol.

jagged apex
#

hold person as the name suggests is specifically designed for holding humanoids

#

and yes there is lore behind the creation of spells, revivify it made no sense lore wise for it to be limited to humanoids

tame root
#

so what is the lore?

pastel fiber
#

Hold Person is 2nd level while Hold Monster is 5th level

versed hare
#

in ADND 1e Raise dead, the lowest level spell for raising a fallen charicter does specify races, and you cant raise an elf with it just human dwarf halfling gnome and half elf

tame root
versed hare
#

nope, hold monster is 5th level

pastel fiber
#

Hold Monster allows you to target every creature type (except Undead in 2014, but that got removed in 2024)

versed hare
#

yeah and there was no lore reason for the change even within 5e

tame root
#

i see.

pastel fiber
runic cave
#

Is the redwood scar mystara? Where does it fit on the DA module timeline?

calm crest
calm crest
runic cave
#

Is there any inherent continuity breaks fitting it in?

calm crest
#

I’ll admit I’m not familiar with it, other than knowing it’s third party, I believe.

jagged apex
#

sounds like the kind of situation where you definitely should embrace the fact that one's own table is considered their own continuity

feral lintel
#

Is there a term (that isnt smallfolk) used to refer to the humanoid species of FR, much like how we have the word humankind?

jagged apex
#

many, usually their species

#

but if you mean version of like "mankind" but applicable to all humanoids, not to my knowledge

feral lintel
#

yeah, something applicable to all humanoids

#

ill just have to use Mortal Races then

jagged apex
#

eh, if being something like a dragon or an extra planar being, mortals works well enough

#

small or little folk is more so only used to my knowledge when giants are reffering to the smaller races

empty forge
#

So ive heard that lathander isnt as good of a god that he seems to be, could someone explain

jagged apex
#

depends what you mean by "good of a god"

#

like being a good aligned deity does not make you infallible in your pursuit of that good, nobody is infallible, even the gods

#

if that is not what you mean, you will have to clerify what exactly you mean as it is otherwise a rather vague statement

crisp parcel
#

Hullo there!

I got 3 topics of questions I’d love any help about. I’m asking about lore from the DM perspective and I’m curious how much I can do while keeping things really engaging and interesting for others.

hollow plank
hollow plank
crisp parcel
#
  1. As of the last two days, I learned that the patron of Warlock are more like a master/teacher to a warlock. For about a year now I was under the impression that Patrons literally give a portion of their powers/bestow it to their warlocks, which I now realise is how Clerics work not warlock. Even got that one interview where the DND writers mention how patron and warlock are like a master apprentice, except for payment they are pretty strict on what they want and they should be powerful enough to bind the warlock into ensuring payment, which is where the fiends find themselves most interested in. But overall this allows for more personal along with lots of other relationships with the patron and warlock.

But my question is, doesn’t that mean any powerful being who can “teach magic” and “enforce the contractual payment” can be a warlock? Including an arch mage, or even a powerful wizard, a lesser deity like Milil, a Fey (not archfey), etc.? And essentially the patron either teaches the Warlock how to do certain things (spells) or how to find the knowledge of how to do things?
So it can be anyone at least thematically and in terms of flavour?

#
  1. Tieflings are said to be from humans. But what happens if a cambion mates with a Drow, Elf, halfling or even dwarf? Perhaps the mating is part of the contract or they get their blood cursed by a contact done before.

Basically I’ve read of Fey’ri but it seems they’re more an older edition thing so what of 5.5e/revised 5e? What happens to non human and fiendish combinations? Are they also tieflings?

#
  1. Lastly, I’m a bit confused on how powerful Fey being can be and if it stops them from wandering the Material Plane. Can Titania, should she want, freely wander the Material Plane without using avatars or such? Or do they have rules similar to Gods?
jagged apex
#

and yes, he did do what he felt was right, as a chaotic good being tends to do, but he was willing to break the status quo with no valid reason but selfish goals and willing to kill his fellow gods to do it, that is pretty horrible if you ask me

hollow plank
jagged apex
crisp parcel
feral lintel
#

alignment is a spectrum

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
# feral lintel alignment is a spectrum

Tbh I understand how alignment can help with foundations but I feel a lot of more established characters shouldn’t have alignments because people change over time

feral lintel
#

... alignment can change tho

jagged apex
#

besides being good aligned does not make him infallible or his actions justified or morally correct

hollow plank
jagged apex
#

3.5e's faith and pantheons page 38

crisp parcel
# feral lintel ... alignment can change tho

Mystra continues to be called neutral but her activities so far often becomes selfish, even has nothing to do with magic. I guess to me it’s just confusing why put labels if the labels are going to change story to story

jagged apex
#

granted it does point to shar corrupting his efforts, but he could not do that had he not had similar plans to begin with, and he is described as having somewhat naivity towards evil deities such as bane and them, they are just as important as he is among the various gods of realm space

feral lintel
#

true neutral is about whats best for the individual...

#

and alignment is descriptive, not prescriptive

hollow plank
# jagged apex 3.5e's faith and pantheons page 38

I cannot find anything on that page that says Lathander killed anyone, just as you said that he indirectly (meaning not him) destroyed Murdane. In fact, Lathander believes Shar was behind it (which seems likely to me, given Shar's nature)

jagged apex
#

the point is, his plan, knowingly or not, corruption or no, was dangerous to the balance of the realms and he was willing to kill and try to destroy fellow gods to attempt to remake the pantheon in his own image, that is pure self righteousness, to quote the cited page "With the return of Bane, many progressive deities believe that direct action must be taken to destroy evil once and for all, and that no unintended consequences of Lathander’s plans could be as threatening to the world as simply standing by and doing nothing." end quote

hollow plank
jagged apex
#

how is destroying evil once and for all, in a cosmos that has it as corner stone of existance and is integral to some beings, gods included's life, not gunna kill someone?

hollow plank
#

"Lathander believes that the Dawn Cataclysm occured because spies of the Lady of Loss secretly corrupted his efforts"

jagged apex
#

and intent is seperate from actions or willingness to do

#

i can not intend to harm anyone to get what i want, that does not mean i am not able or unwilling to do so if i feel i must or am in the heat of the moment

jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

Actually this remind me, gods eventually wants souls who become either part of the god or do their biddings but to what ends? Is it just like irl nukes, to demonstrate who’s more powerful?

Or is there an ongoing war between gods or upcoming war?

hollow plank
jagged apex
#

i was not describing him, but his actions, i think this is you mistaking me for doing the what is am not doing, ie you thought i was describing him and his intent rather than the actions

#

is killing your peers just to remake something in your image not a "horrible" act generally? last i checked it tends to be viewed as such

#

i ceretainly would not call it anything good, moral, justified, ect...

#

especially in a universe where those evil deities are despite their morality and alingments just as important as the good aligned ones

hollow plank
jagged apex
#

that is not what i am saying

hollow plank
#

that is precisely what you are arguing

jagged apex
#

i am calling his actions of being willing to kill and destroy other gods to remake the pantheon in his own image "horrible" not his intent or that killing evil in general is itself evil

#

he was taking the concept to a cosmic extreme where things are objectively not that clean cut as destroying evil is always good and not doing so is always bad

hollow plank
jagged apex
#

else asmodeus would not supposidly be waging the blood war if going by his origin that most of the multiverse tends to agree apon

jagged apex
#

cuz that makes no sense if you ask me

hollow plank
#

murder assumes intent

#

you're ascribing him ill intent, yet again

#

this is pointless

crisp parcel
#

I think it all boils down to whether Lathander killed everyone for his own personal gain and not for the good of others
And if his work was twisted by Shar, that does make him tragic

jagged apex
#

🤦

jagged apex
#

regardless of intent, murder or not, attacking and potentially killing a peer not caring or even considering the consiquences, seems pretty horrible if you ask me, especially on such as cosmic scale where his actions drastically effect far more than just him and the individuals associated with him

#

and technically again, just because his earlier efforts were corrupted by shar as per his belief, does not mean he is correct in his belief

#

plus it seems he tried to remake the pantheon in his image not just once as after the first it notes him plotting a second one, so he is still potentially gunna try to do this despite what happened the first time and the fact that he was not as in the right as he thought given his own lover at the time disagreed with him and refused to be involved in his power grab

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

the vanity in his personality

#

basically in his mind he presumably believed he should be the one in charge and the gold standard for the gods and that everything would be so much better if they followed his lead, and presumably just destroyed the evil deities once and for all, key word here being "believed" as just because he thinks it is true, does not make it objectively true

#

basically if this analogy helps, he was thinking much like the emperor of man kind from 40k, or at least the dogma of the imperium

crisp parcel
jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

Typo*

#

Yeah 😭

jagged apex
#

often when gods are involved in dnd things get a lot more complciated especially on matters of morality

#

and lathander's negative qualities and behavior of attacking first and not worring about consiquences was not making things any easier on anyone

jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

I’m not big on Lathander lore but about gods in general, I do think a good balance can be “if you follow a god, you get boons. Not just clerics, even regular folks can get it, if you please a god”, whereas “if you don’t follow a god, you essentially are on your own unless a god takes interest in you”

This means a follower would have a higher chance of being helped by a god in things allowing gods to still have their stream of prayers (in this case only the most loyal devotees so prayers would be more severe) and non believer can chill as well

#

Idk why writers don’t just do this, this way gods don’t have to disappear

jagged apex
#

thankfully as per Ao's decree in more recent years gods are not suppose to get involved directly in mortal affairs, and those that did not listen, ie the dead three mainly, were drastically reduced in power as punishment for not listening

#

cuz if lathander could just at any time choose to go in an avatar and lead a crusade or something, things would be a lot more messy than they are these days

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

the become party of divinity thing to my knowledge is not confirmed, that is a theory at best

#

and far as i know it is ambiguous and unclear if the wall is still in use these days, besides do to the nature of the realms not believing in any gods at all is extremely rare, plus these days many mortals tend to go to planes that match their alignment in life when they die, unless a god, devil, or similar being has a claim on their soul be it via a deal, contract, or veneration

hollow plank
hollow plank
jagged apex
# crisp parcel That still doesn’t solve the “all souls either goes to the wall or becomes part ...

well traditionally in the natural process of passing a mortal's soul and their memories are separated from one another, leaving only vague emotional echos, so these people would just fundamentally in their soul have genuine believe in the philosophies of these evil deities, and while a god or similar being can restore these memorize, it usually is difficult and takes a great deal of power and effort, so rarely do people get these privilege, and is not like they have those memories to make them realize they are missing that, when you become a petitioner you more or less are somewhat a new being, a metaphysical one like the outer planes and the creatures native to them , but you are still similar enough to your original self that your soul can be restored to your body if you are willing for the purposes of resurrection magic

crisp parcel
#

And on that note, why does gods want souls exactly?

jagged apex
static lily
#

Who is the lady of pain? I’m lowkey confused about it.

jagged apex
crisp parcel
jagged apex
jagged apex
#

also loviatar is the maiden of pain

static lily
#

Ah, makes sense

crisp parcel
#

The sigil one is known to have some connection to raven queen

#

People joke they were roommate xD

jagged apex
oblique dirge
#

The Lady of Pain is a mystery wrapped in an enigma
no one knows who or what she truly is, or if she is even a she

jagged apex
crisp parcel
oblique dirge
#

She is the absolute authority over Sigil, and her power prevents gods from entering or interfering with its affairs
despite her power, she does not accept worshipers, and anyone attempting to do so dies horribly

jagged apex
#

you do not draw the attention or interact with the lady of pain in any way if you are smart, is why devils and demons and the like can all be in sigil and there is no worry about it just becoming another front for the blood war

oblique dirge
#

for reasons unknown, it is said the only one who knows the true identity of the Raven Queen is the Lady of Pain, but beyond that, no one knows the true connection between the two

jagged apex
oblique dirge
#

interestingly enough the Wish spell calls her out directly as an entity that will step in if your wish reshapes reality in a way that threatens Sigil

#

it's theorized she has the power of an Overgod, and may in fact be the Overgod of The Outlands

crisp parcel
#

Are mortals allowed to enter Feywild? I assume it requires a spell or some manner or power level?

jagged apex
#

yes

oblique dirge
#

mortals may enter but may not necessarily be welcome

jagged apex
#

there is not rule about who is an isn't allowed to enter the feywild, most people wind up in the feywild by accident, do to fey crossings

oblique dirge
#

unprepared, it is a dangerous place where one mistake can lead to a tragic demise
at least in some parts

jagged apex
#

but you can get there with plane shift, if looking for a spell

oblique dirge
#

as it is a plane of extremes, it has places of extreme beauty, extreme ugliness, good, evil, etc.
and even the good areas may be dangerous

jagged apex
#

though some mages may go to the feywild to practice magics they normally can't cuz historcially not only is arcane magic super charged in the feywild compared to the prime material plane, but also the ban on toril on epic magic does not extent to other planes of existance such as the feywild, though most people don't have the knowledge of such spells so is not like they can even try normally

oblique dirge
#

The Witchlight campaign is an official module set primarily within the Feywild and is a good crash course on the plane and its mechanics

crisp parcel
#

Will have a look at it

jagged apex
#

yeah the feywilds is a world of alien nature in the ways of folk lore and fairy tales, stories, and bountiful amounts of magic, nature, and life

#

but not all life is good or nice, after all hags, most hags, and other evil fey are of the feywilds natively

oblique dirge
#

I play an Eladrin druid from that plane and thus have spent a lot of time researching it
quite an interesting but often underused space in the D&D multiverse

jagged apex
#

and some of the oldest beigns in the feywild are shaped of the first stories mortals told, of the wild savage terrors of the wilds when we were but mere simple cavemen and the wilderness was viewed like stepping into a realm of nightmares and unknown terrors, but made manifest and turned to the extreme

#

the jabberwock in dnd is arguably a good example of this

oblique dirge
#

the 'first elves' originated from the feywild, with every elf subspecies branching from them after traveling to different planes
with the Eladrin being the descendants of the ones who chose to stay in the feywild, which is why they were shaped by it, specifically

crisp parcel
#

Yeah I’m writing up a fey patron. Tho I’m unsure if I want them to be an Archfey or a fey powerful enough to be a warlock patron yet not an archfey yet and they travel along with the warlock (stored in the ring) purely for flavour and rp, no mechanism boost but I’m having still new to feywild lore

jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

Like can the fey be curious and even critical about pantheon wars and certain mortal affairs? I’m usually fey don’t care and mostly are whimsical and all about court stuff

jagged apex
#

there are many kinds of fey

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

the unseelie ie winter court are known for being ratehr grim and gloomy or at least some among them

oblique dirge
#

fey can be good or evil (sometimes even neutral) but they are almost always chaotic

jagged apex
feral lintel
jagged apex
#

after all if devils can use imps as inbetweens, i see no reason the fey can't do the same with their subjects

#

though in dnd a nymph may present it's own issues lore wise, as memory serves looking at one with your naked eyes can kill you and round about things like seeing them via a reflection can paralyze or blind you https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nymph

crisp parcel
#

So I was planning chaotic good creature who doesn’t like either seelie or unseelie court and is more obsessed with the lack of spotlight on the greater divine affairs that happens outside Feywild. Particularly since the second sundering they started growing suspicious and curious but their peers don’t care about such

They got into a fight, was pretty much cast out of Feywild, found themselves beaten and weakened in Dire Woods and I wanted to play that their depressed emotional state essentially was fatal and nearly killed fhem were it not for a tiefling who nursed them back unaware of the nymph’s true nature till much later. They initially thought the nymph was just a beautiful tiefling

jagged apex
#

saddly those details don't seem to be documented on the wiki, so may have to check direct sources

crisp parcel
jagged apex
# crisp parcel So I was planning chaotic good creature who doesn’t like either seelie or unseel...

you may if using the realms wish to consider https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Verenestra who is a goddess of nymphs and is very nymph like and in a known archfey but has not been used in published materials since 2e it seems, though they are of the seelie court, while there are fey and archfey of neither court, such as hags, most belong to both, so a nymph or nymph like ones might be difficult if wanting to stick to being of neither court

crisp parcel
shut salmon
#

So I'm a little behind on vecna lore, and I have been thrusted into having to quickly deal with vecna. I only have a couple fragmented scraps of lore, and looking it up keeps giving me conflicting answers.
Idk if this is the right space to ask this, but can anyone give me a quick rundown of the lore?

oblique dirge
#

Vecna is a lich who became so powerful he ascended to godhood
he is among the most evil characters in D&D canon

#

he likes killing other gods to increase his own power

shut salmon
#

Lovely.

oblique dirge
#

he generally loves spreading evil and is believed to be the author of the legendary Book of Vile Darkness

#

wizards who come across his artifacts or teachings are often corrupted to evil, especially as he loves leaving traps for curious ones

shut salmon
#

Great, 90% of the party is screwed

oblique dirge
#

summoning Vecna is generally a bad move

shut salmon
crisp parcel
oblique dirge
#

well there is a book that's its opposite, the goodest book in the multiverse
The Book of Exalted Deeds

#

also i realize i confused the name, Vecna's book was the Book of Vile Darkness, not Vile Deeds

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
#

Imagine writing a book and going “yeah, it’s my book of vile darkness”

oblique dirge
#

the book itself is dangerous to any non-evil creature
it physically damages you if you touch it, worse if you try to read it, and even being near it can corrupt your personality to turn towards evil
it emanates an aura that prevents life from growing

#

generally not a pleasant thing

crisp parcel
oblique dirge
#

I don't believe anyone is capable of comprehending what's in the book without attuning to it

crisp parcel
#

Hmmm

oblique dirge
#

the book itself is also an intelligent, sapient item, and capable of understanding if someone is trying to cheat the system

crisp parcel
#

Then

crisp parcel
oblique dirge
#

I wish you the best of luck in attempting this most impossible of tasks

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
unkempt torrent
crisp parcel
#

I only know one thing about Vecna, so I’ll use that xD

That he’s looking for Raven Queen’s name and identity

oblique dirge
#

fun fact, Vecna is the only deity to have ever invaded Sigil, a place that is generally impossible for gods to breach, due to the Lady of Pain
who happens to be the only one who knows that identity

crisp parcel
unkempt torrent
#

he has plenty of enemies 😅
way more than allies for sure 🤣

crisp parcel
#

City of Doors

crisp parcel
oblique dirge
#

he's practically the most evil being in canon so yes most things are by default enemies of him

crisp parcel
#

All it takes is one mf who is just happy to be there

#

Thank you for this , seriously @oblique dirge @unkempt torrent

unkempt torrent
#

idk if it’s “impossible” to, but yeah, surely they leave it alone…nobody wants to FAFO with the Lady of Pain…

oblique dirge
#

impractical or so difficult it is not worth the effort

#

gods just send their liasons to Sigil to do business

crisp parcel
#

I’ll just say I met adventurers who told me Vecna wrote a stupid book title and apparently I can’t read its content. So my whole life’s mission is to make him share it all, what do I got to lose?

#

Vile Darkness… pffft

unkempt torrent
crisp parcel
#

Ik it sounds stupid but somehow bro made it this far

oblique dirge
#

crossing Vecna is not just a path to a horrible death, but an eternity of suffering fates worse than death

crisp parcel
#

Ik a lot of people don’t like butchering serious established characters but I think this just makes it better. Why beat an enemy by force when you can make a fool of them?

crisp parcel
unkempt torrent
# crisp parcel Ik it sounds stupid but somehow bro made it this far

more than anything else, making him “share” the content of his book, would change reality permanently to a VERY EVIL place…
the content of the book is literally every act of evil ever committed 😅
you sure you want THAT to be your chaotic good character life goal?

crisp parcel
#

Okay so, what if… he shares it in Bhaal’s domain? My character can die in the end, Vecna shares it, Bhaal’s domain is destroyed

unkempt torrent
crisp parcel
#

As long as my character can cast vicious mockery before death

unkempt torrent
#

i don’t think you’re comprehending the scale of how “sharing” the book of evil darkness would compromise things 😁 but it’s okey you do you 😁 cast your Vicious Mockery at him

crisp parcel
#

My character can die too

#

It’s just funny af to trick him into a contract that compels him to share his secrets

unkempt torrent
crisp parcel
#

Hmmmm

#

There’s gotta be a way

#

I’ll look into it

jagged apex
jagged apex
# crisp parcel Chaotic Good, they enjoy playing the other side just for the giggles

well if memory serves the book of vile darkness will just teleport to somewhere else randomly in the multiverse if you don't commit an evil act "The Book of Vile Darkness remains with you only as long as you strive to work evil in the world. If you fail to perform at least one evil act within the span of 10 days, or if you willingly perform a good act, the book disappears, your Attunement to it ends immediately, and you lose all benefits granted by it. If you die while attuned to the book, an entity of great evil claims your soul. You can’t be restored to life by any means while your soul remains imprisoned." end quote

#

plus technically in more resent versions it says "Most believe the lich-god Vecna authored the Book of Vile Darkness. He recorded in its pages every horrid idea, every corrupt thought, and every example of foul magic he came across or devised." vecna if not the author is the most infamous contributor to it's sinister contents

crisp parcel
# jagged apex who said he named it?

“This book I leave as a testament to my service to evil”
This just oddly reminds me of every black metal band from Mayhem days. Even if he didn’t name the book, that’s the intro he wrote. He should be laughed at for that line alone even if it ends in the death of the laughing person

#

He can’t write something that dumb and not face causality

jagged apex
#

also if you are a good aligned character, i'd say you are more suited for the book of exaulted deeds, one could think of it as a sort of counter part "The definitive treatise on all that is good in the multiverse, the Book of Exalted Deeds figures prominently in many religions. Rather than being a scripture devoted to a particular faith, the book’s authors filled the pages with their own visions of true virtue, providing guidance for defeating evil.
The Book of Exalted Deeds rarely lingers in one place. As soon as the book is read, it vanishes to some other corner of the multiverse where its moral guidance can bring hope to an endangered world. Although attempts have been made to copy the work, efforts to do so fail to capture its magical nature or translate the benefits it offers to those pure of heart and firm of purpose." end quote from it's latest listing

jagged apex
crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

also he is the god of evil secrets and did many evil and horrible acts in his time even before becoming a god, as the old saying goes "go big or go home" so makes sense he would dedicate himself to evil

#

and given his ambition is that his plan is to rule the multiverse one day and become the god above all other gods, going big seems like the logical choice for him

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

eh, not really, cuz as both an undead and a god and basically having a self-sustaining existence, he basically has until the natural end of the multiverse, plus i am not even aware of any other beings with the same goal, as most other big bads wanna destroy the gods, the multiverse, or both or something more small scaled relatively speaking

thorny hound
#

are there other residents of nine hells that are not considered Fiends?

muted ginkgo
thorny hound
#

Great!

teal badge
#

So question but are worgs, hellhounds and blink dogs, animals or are they fey/fiend?

feral lintel
versed hare
#

Fey feind fey

steep nimbus
#

Is this where we discuss characteristics and personalities of Worlock Patrons?

ionic rivet
#

No this is the channel for discussing official D&D lore (e.g. lore from official D&D sources)

spring pebble
#

When a monster that innate spellcasting which specifies that they don't need material compoment, does that apply to costly material compoments? Like the diamond for revify

feral lintel
spring pebble
#

My dm argues that it only works for material compoments that are not consumed

#

But i can't find any rule saying that

feral lintel
#

if it only worked on non consumed material component, it would say so

spring pebble
#

They cannot be argued with

feral lintel
#

thats on them

spring pebble
#

Wait

#

Omg

#

Wrong channel 😭

#

I missclicked

versed hare
crisp parcel
#

How common/uncommon is it for warlocks to actually sell their souls as part of the contract/patron bargain?

pastel fiber
#

Feels like something only the Fiend Patron would really wanna steal from you

#

Celestials should all be good natured creature, so indentured servitude sounds like the worst case scenario.
Archfey is more of them same but more cruel and probably for an eternity.

jagged apex
jagged apex
pastel fiber
jagged apex
#

though over time those beings typically will eventually become fiends, as they are warped by the energies of the plane

#

similar reasons are how the fey based firbolg came to be, and such lore is nothing new to the way the energies of the planes effect visitors over time

pastel fiber
#

Even if you are mighty creature like a dragon for example?
Is it an irresistible process?

jagged apex
#

it will happen eventually, to my knowledge only possible exception is a god

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

granted i could be wrong, but the vast majority of creatures would be effected by such phenomenon, and honestly it makes extra planar adventuring intereting

thin zephyr
jagged apex
pastel fiber
jagged apex
#

not really

#

is not as messed up as you think unless you were under a false assumtion of something

#

besides alignment is fluid especially for mortal beings, so a sudden shift can very much be undone unless the effect says otherwise

pastel fiber
#

Forced personality change sound pretty crazy to me thb, you can be righteous paladin but some nasty hell fumes makes you an evil person

jagged apex
#

it does not change personality

feral lintel
pastel fiber
thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

alignment is more so your worldview and outlook

pastel fiber
#

like a massive part

feral lintel
thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

like your priorities, like neutral evil, is the sort of mindset of only looking out for yourself, and your own survival, regardless of any harm it causes others, and again alignment is fluid, even more so these days than in prior editions, over time based on your actions, behavior, and such, can change, it is easiest to do as a mortal like the player characters, for metaphyiscal beings of the outer planes it is a lot more difficult to the point of being just shy of impossible because their alignment is so fundimental to what they are

#

like just because you are forced to an evil alignment does not mean you can only do evil acts, thoughts, and deeds

pastel fiber
#

Character who believes in altruism vs "Chaotic evil characters acted according to whatever their greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drove them to do."

pastel fiber
thin zephyr
pastel fiber
#

and?

#

One does it because they hope for a reward and couldn't care less about who is in danger while a good person wants to save people

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

the fact is alignment is not as limiting and constraining these days as people tent to treat it, most people tend to not bother to change alingment when their actions sufficently show a change in morality because of this, and since the dm does not note any alingment change, many people are often not gunna change them cuz there is no approval from the dm else people would be changing it just to suit the specific situation they are in

pastel fiber
# thin zephyr And yet the impoverished orphans are saved nonetheless

Irrelevant. This is about whether saying that a person with the Good aligment is good and a person with the evil aligment is evil.
If your alignment changes to evil it's a personality change as your good nature is replaced by selfishness and empathy and other attributes considered evil.

jagged apex
#

the truth is it is far more nuanced and fluid than people give it credit for

pastel fiber
jagged apex
#

that is your opinion, if you want detailed lot of systems that risk being clunky, i'd suggest playing pathfinder or older editions of dnd, but that is neither here nor there as this is the lore channel

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

or make such things clear when getting together with your dm before you even start playing, that is the ideal time for such things to be brought to attention

pastel fiber
#

Obviously

#

just seems tha conversation when down this way after i asked about the specifics of the Plane tranforming you

feral lintel
#

The planes are embodiments of their respective alignments/concepts

pastel fiber
#

Yeah, evil and good, chaotic are real forces in the DnD universe and so on and so forth

jagged apex
#

they are metaphysical in nature

#

to quote 5e planescape's lore on "planar influences"
"The Outer Planes are home to powerful forces of good and evil, chaos and order. Over time, these forces can alter creatures exposed to them. Due to their proximity to the Outer Planes, the inhabitants of the Outlands’ gate-towns and nearby regions often exhibit traits associated with specific Outer Planes. Creatures might also have such traits if they dwell in other realms steeped in the energy of an Outer Plane—whether such a place be in the Outlands, on the Material Plane, or elsewhere." end quote

#

and these can include creature traits, physical attributes, morality/alignment changes, ect...

#

and to quote what the 2024 dmg has to say on the outer planes
"If the Inner Planes are the raw matter and energy that make up the multiverse, the Outer Planes provide the direction, thought, and purpose for its construction. These are realms of spirituality and thought, the spheres where Celestials, Fiends, and deities dwell. The plane of Elysium, for example, isn’t merely a home for good creatures or where spirits of good creatures go when they die. It is the embodiment of goodness, a spiritual realm where evil can’t abide. It is as much a state of being and of mind as it is a physical location.

When discussing anything to do with deities and their realms, the language used must be highly metaphorical. Their actual homes aren’t literally places at all but exemplify the idea that the Outer Planes are realms of thought and spirit.

The planes with an element of good in their nature are called the Upper Planes, while those with an element of evil are the Lower Planes. A plane’s alignment is its essence, and a creature whose alignment doesn’t match the plane’s alignment experiences a sense of dissonance there. When a good creature visits Elysium, for example, it feels in tune with the plane, but an evil creature feels uncomfortable." end quote

#

besides the hells are lawful first and evil second, and looking at the book, it is very much in line with that and it can be undone rather easily

#

even more so if your party happens to have a cleric or paladin with access to the spell, "dispel evil and good" which makes perfect sense

#

granted rather easily for adventurer, if this was just some random person on toril that would be a separate matter, and the hells are well known and if people are insightful enough they reasonable could figure these things out if they were not already aware of this risk when venturing into another plane

#

honestly the newer dmg has a whole section of chapter 3 dedicated to this sort of thing and would probably be worth a look

#

to quote
"Actions Indicate Alignment
A character might think they’re good and profess to believe that senseless slaughter is wrong, but if that character repeatedly engages in senseless slaughter, the character’s beliefs aren’t what they profess.

Alignment doesn’t limit the actions characters can take; rather, the actions they take indicate what their alignment is. It’s OK to stray from the tenets of one’s alignment now and then, and players can (and should) change their characters’ alignments if these alignments no longer describe their characters." end quote

#

and it has more on the topic including one literally called "Good and Evil Can Cooperate"

sleek rose
#

Hey quick question. Where dors the magic outside Abeir-Toril come from? it is said that the weave is limited to those two world so does the magic outside just exist unsupervised?

thin zephyr
sleek rose
#

ok dac thanks

jagged apex
#

things like the weave and ley lines are more so ways to harness magic and use it safely

#

in most worlds do to this something like the weave will wind up coming into existence as a means of accessing or expressing it

#

makeing places like earth an outlier

sleek rose
#

ok I see that explains a lot

calm crest
#

On Athas, magic is channeled from the elements/landscape or the Sun itself.

#

On Mystara, modern magic is derived from ||the nuclear reactor of a crashed spaceship turned artifact.||

feral lintel
#

im sorry what

calm crest
#

In the setting of Mystara/the Known World, the present era’s magic is ||heavily tied to the Radiance, a special (radioactive) energy derived from the Nucleus of the Spheres, which was originally the power source for the FSS Beagle of the Galactic Federation.||

#

||Which crash landed during the Blackmoor era and eventually lead to the downfall of their civilization.||

unborn light
#

You just casually dropped the biggest spoiler in the entire setting 🙂

#

My mind was blown when I first read about that in one of the Gazeteers

thin zephyr
calm crest
#

Fixed it! dndLol

unborn light
#

And not for nothing is that world's Mageocracy located right on top of said in-universe explanation for magic, and also ||the core is unstable, and may blow at any time...||

thin zephyr
calm crest
#

The genres were just forced onto these settings much later than they were conceived.

#

Pretty much every 1e or prior D&D setting would be considered speculative fiction as its closest genre (or maybe gonzo).

unborn light
#

I consider myself a bit of a genre purist, but that doens't mean to say there can't be some genre-bending elements, variety is the spice of life

jagged apex
#

dnd is objectively science fantasy

#

people assuming it is just medieval fantasy or only fantasy, is a misconception if anything

unborn light
#

And the in-game explanation for magic as above is I think one of the more elegant and plausible, if that's the right word, one's I've seen.

(also acted as an intro to Spelljammer)

thin zephyr
jagged apex
#

not really

#

as worlds can vary but the dnd multiverse as a whole is most accurately science fantasy

calm crest
jagged apex
#

a specific genre can be more so the tone and level of a world, many worlds vary, such as the eberron setting as an example

#

basically stuff like technology as we think of it, firearms, ect... are not as out of place in the dnd multiverse as people tend to assume

calm crest
#

-# The fact that D&D’s magic system is Vancian kinda goes along with the assumption that magic relies on space-warping supermathematics.

unborn light
#

It does at that

unkempt merlin
#

(Admittedly the system hasnt been true vancian for quite a while)

calm crest
#

Indeed. Fire-and-forget hasn’t been a factor since 3e, and technically OD&D surpassed the true Vancian half-dozen spell limit.

sonic glen
#

hello, I'm with really huge doubt about one thing. Is the forgotten realms the wildspace that Toril is located (realmspace)??

oblique dirge
#

Realmspace is the term used for the 'solar system' that Toril is located in. Toril being the planet that contains Faerûn

#

'Wildspace' is the empty void of nothingness that exists between celestial bodies (planets, star, moons, asteroids, etc)

arctic sorrel
#

Does anyone wanna hear my campaign lore?

sonic glen
oblique dirge
#

Basically, yes
there's other continents on Toril too

sonic glen
#

I see, thank you

jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

I’m trying to write a chaotic good/lawful good (chaotic leaning sweetheart types) Fey creature. Is there any character I can read up on to know how they behave and such? Other than the usual “they’re chaotic” of course? I’m not sure how to faithfully write a chaotic fey character without fully making him childlike or something

covert sun
crisp parcel
sonic glen
covert sun
#

Yes it s a book

crisp parcel
jagged apex
jagged apex
worn schooner
#

Does House Alagondar have an heir that survived? I was thinking of making a character who is the "true" last heir of House Alagondar who wants the throne of Neverwinter, but I'm not sure if it'd be lore-accurate.

sonic glen
jagged apex
worn schooner
teal badge
#

question but does the dire worg has more of an canine nose or hyena one?

thin zephyr
teal badge
jagged apex
#

in their latest depiction they are described as "Sometimes mistaken at first for giant wolves, worgs are vicious hunters. These sapient predators can speak and often taunt their prey, enjoying the taste of fear in their meals." and the artwork shows their nose looking a bit like a cross between a canine and a pig

#

descriptions don't clarify anything that hyper specific as a snout

teal badge
#

question but why winter wolves are categorized as monstrocity and yet worgs became fey?

thin zephyr
teal badge
thin zephyr
jagged apex
# teal badge the more i learn, the more i start to bielieve that pf2e has better clasificatio...

the two systems likely judged things differently besides it has varied from edition to edition and pathfinder especially a system has no influence on the lore of dnd, plus monstrosities are "unnatural creatures with strange origins, such as mimics and owlbears." as it in latest version where as fey are "creatures tied to the Feywild or the forces of nature, such as dryads, goblins, and pixies."

#

the worg having natural connections to goblins likely are of the fey, this is supported as they can be encounter in the feywilds

#

plus winter wolves are described as "supernatural predators that prowl frigid wildernesses in deadly packs."

#

and supernatural creatures that don't better fit other categories historically thus fall into the monstrosity category

#

besides the differing in lore between the two IPs make it flawed to try to compare their classification systems as they likely opperate differently and the lore supporting some of these choices also is likely to differ even in subtle yet important ways

jagged apex
#

plus 5.5e is basically in regards to creature types mainly more clearly defining what each creature type embodies and reclassifying creatures to a more fitting creature type if previously they did not line up with these more clear definitions, in universe you could think of this as more experienced and knowledgeable sages correcting and revising those posed earlier by less experienced or knowledgeable ones, such as volo, no doubt many of such statements made by him have had to be reclassified by wiser and most respectable sages to try to avoid such misinformation leading to unnecessary death of adventurers and the like

empty forge
#

Who would yall consider to be the kindest deity

unkempt elm
#

Lathander imo

mystic vortex
empty forge
#

No wonder shes hated by the bg3 fandom

mystic vortex
#

actually it was 3 times

empty forge
mystic vortex
#

but yeah if you are a greater deity, the goddess of magic and you got killed 3 times...maybe people should stop workshipping you

#

maybe cause everytime you die the entire planet becomes a mess and magic either disappears or goes crazy

empty forge
jagged apex
#

and historically in the lore she is one of the kinder deities in the realms, at least later incarnations, at least to my knowledge

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
#

This isn’t a joke

mystic vortex
empty forge
crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

that is a specific incarnation and depiction and is a lot more nuanced than you are giving it credit for

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
empty forge
crisp parcel
#

Yes

jagged apex
#

again, not what that means and that is a specific continuity at most

crisp parcel
empty forge
#

Id say selune is also up there, not trynna be biased cuz shes my fav deity but she is a very forgiving deity

mystic vortex
#

what about Kelemvor?

crisp parcel
mystic vortex
#

he is kind...to dead people but still kind

empty forge
crisp parcel
#

Also just wanna say, Ilmater is perhaps the kindest KINDEST mf to exist but that he’s a fantastic example of how being a useless moron devoids your kind intents

empty forge
#

Kelemvors followers often comfort people before they pass which i think is oddly wholesome

#

Better then myrkul atleast

empty forge
#

I also like garl glittergold hes a silly lil guy

crisp parcel
# empty forge Do elaborate

A lot of Sharrans become Sharran because Shar and Selune has influence and eyes on same thing together. Twin shenanigans. That’s why any time a selunite waver, Shar shows up

You’d expect a similar response from Selune, nope

Also Selune strangely Doesmt even tell people about the Selûne Shar connection

empty forge
crisp parcel
# mystic vortex what about Kelemvor?

Also I have a strong feeling Kelemvor is planning something (if he isn’t then I’ll write something and make it canon before I die)
But he was kinder in the past

#

And idk if you notice, Selune practices are oddly mirrors of sharran ones too

jagged apex
# crisp parcel Explain what you think it mean

bg3 is a specific continuity and not necessarily the standard and is not the latest source for info on them, and a lot of people who are trying to view the gods by mortal standards are flawed in this logic as the gods don't think like mortals more often than not, many gods who were previously mortal had to give up the remainder of their humanity to objectively do their jobs properly

crisp parcel
#

The whole coming of age ritual

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

but i will say illmater is one of the kindest deities do to what he imbodies

crisp parcel
#

If you’re a Mystra fan, just say it
Her whole magic makes people feel love, that’s just love potion at play

#

And btw

#

Mystra has been this way since before BG3

jagged apex
crisp parcel
#

There’s also the very interesting “Kelemvor distanced himself from Mystra after ascension for an unknown reason”

crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

and?

crisp parcel
#

And nothing, we get it, you like hot lady

jagged apex
#

that is not at all what i am saying

#

one of my favorite deities especially as a character in dnd is actually tiamat

crisp parcel
#

Figures

jagged apex
#

?

#

just because i don't demonize or take the most unflattering depiction of a character as the standard or as fact does not mean i like them or am necessarily bias, i was trying to point out that you assumptions were bias and was informed via a specific interpretation and that even then those situations you were referring to were a bit more nuanced, besides mystra and gale's dynamic is more so both their faults, gale is just as guilting as mystra

#

if you want a god that is actually manipulating her followers regardless of continuity, Shar is more fitting

#

plus to quote part of mystra's latest lore "The Lady of Mysteries is a god of tremendous power, even among other deities. Her dominion is the Weave, the sum total of magic, from which spells are drawn. Like magic itself, Mystra has undergone many changes over the millennia, including two known passings of her mantle." end quote, remember the current mystra, which would be what the bg3 version was likely based on, is technically an amalgamation of past incarnations courtesy of the nature of the weave preserving parts of the past ones, and mystra, the older incarnation, did some rather questionable if not by mortal standards awful stuff https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Mystra#History
and as bad as her and gale's relationship was with one another, not nearly as messed up as the last mortal she had in a similar situation, see the creation of the 7 sisters

#

honestly trying to view the morality of the gods from a mortal perspective is often flawed and even when it isn't it gets messy pretty quick, much like that views of extra planar beings they are extreme to the point of being alien

crisp parcel
crisp parcel
#

The amount of defense you’re trying to put for Mystra for what she did to Gale is… honestly yikes

#

Peace off x

jagged apex
#

it is, why else would an angel wiping out a city not necessarily be evil as an example, heck one thing that has been talked about kelemvor and him not keeping the wall of faithless is another good example of how morality from a mortal perspective is not clean or clear cut

jagged apex
crisp parcel
jagged apex
#

sounds more like you are talking more meta than lore, cuz to my knowledge mystra is not that hated in published lore

crisp parcel
#

That’s all the reason people are saying she sucks

jagged apex
#

also mystra had nothing to do with the orb of karsus, be it's creation or it winding up in gale, that was karsus and gale respectively

empty forge
#

Guys guys please lets not argue

crisp parcel
#

Fair

empty forge
#

Its a silly game we shouldnt be arguing over deities

crisp parcel
#

No wonder you like Tiamat lmfaooo

jagged apex
jagged apex
empty forge
#

Enough now, leave it be

#

Youve both made your points and its getting nowhere

jagged apex
#

i said he was not innocent, he did some things that he should not have, both in a relationship, in the name of his god, ect... but i never said it was him being groomed by mystra that was his fault

empty forge
#

Lets move on to better topics

jagged apex
empty forge
#

Ik its just best we leave it be for now

jagged apex
#

onto another topic, i find it interesting that the darkpowers we know now managed to snag cthulhu in any capacity, would not have thought it possible, but i imagine it had a lot of cavoites, like if they tried to do it outside of a specific scenario i doubt they would have been successful, so interested to see what info outside of the article from dnd beyond on a few of the darklords we get regarding how they pulled this off once the new sourcebook releases

sleek rose
#

I have a question. What is Vlaakith's phylactery?

crisp parcel
reef cape
# crisp parcel 8 year old Gale being groomed by Mystra, Totally his fault

Baldur's Gate 3 takes place between 1492 and 1494 DR. Mystra was dead until 1480 DR and had to wait until 1487 to get her powers back. Gale seems to be in his early thirties. Which means he was born before 1464 DR. Since Mystra was dead until 1480, the absolute earliest meeting point between the two is when he was more than sixteen. However, considering she only came into her full powers in 1487, if we consider this the point where they may have met, that means Gale cannot have been younger than twenty-three.

crisp parcel
reef cape
#

Like... Damn, that's a lot of layers of security around the damn thing.

sleek rose
#

damn I was ready for something worse

reef cape
reef cape
crisp parcel
sleek rose
reef cape
crisp parcel
#

Wonder how they were doing magic while she was dead huh

#

But fair

#

Mystra isn’t so shit then

reef cape
crisp parcel
#

Wait so Kelemvor became a god in 1487?

reef cape
#

I do not think Lich Queen's Beloved has ever been republished

crisp parcel
#

He’s young af too

reef cape
crisp parcel
slow cape
#

One of my players wants for a backup character to be a Blood domain cleric and while the Critical Role wiki and sourcebooks do have examples for deities, this campaign is set in Forgotten Realms and I’m unsure what other deities to suggest to them for their domain.

reef cape
jagged apex
#

to my knowledge there is not really any such god, closest i can think of is orcus, but he is not a god, and i only think of him as one of his titles is the "the lord of blood", there is not likely gunna be any match in published lore since it is a 3rd party subclass and to my knowledge was not a domain in even older editions of dnd

#

so odds are there you will have to work with your player to make one for your table and your depiction on the realms

hollow plank
unkempt merlin
#

Loviatar would probably work (can't say I'm familiar with the mechanical abilities, but just by name would be fitting i think)

#

Since iirc their whole thing is connection to the body and soul and thats. Basically what loviatar is about

hollow plank
#

I've never seen that particular Domain in play, either, so not very familiar with exactly what they are about

crisp parcel
#

Kanchensis, specifically has clerics too

charred topaz
#

Where does Laeral Silverhand stand among wizard /sorcerers in terms of legacy and power?

thin zephyr
charred topaz
#

Hmm what items and spells she created?

pastel fiber
charred topaz
#

I haven't heard about her so wondering about her ranking among most famous and powerful wizards like Elminster, Tasha and
Mordenkainen

charred topaz
thin zephyr
charred topaz
#

Ah

#

I see

#

Never mind i found her spells wiki

reef cape
jagged apex
#

she is also one of the seven sisters

reef cape
#

She has been a chosen of Mystra since her birth, has been tutored by her mother, the aforementioned Mystra, and is the either the most accomplished of the seven sisters, or the second most accomplished after her sister Alassra.

jagged apex
reef cape
#

Laeral's speciality appears to be interacting with magic items and artefacts. Compared to Alassra, who specializes more in combat magic, and Alusriel who specializes more in defensive applications. So while she may be the most accomplished among her sisters, she is not necessarily the best fighter

jagged apex
#

especially with that whole situation in her past with the blue flame magical items and the crown of horns

pastel fiber
#

She is also stated to be growing weaker due to being really old, even though she's immortal she has to put more effort into staying that way

jagged apex
#

she is still part mortal and technically did not need to sleep, so odds are there are disadvantages to her being both part mortal and part divine

#

plus growing weaker with age, depending on the working could just be speaking about her physically

#

yeah, seem to be reffering to her physically, as the wiki cites from the novel "death masks"
"As a centuries-old wizard, Laeral was one of the most accomplished spellcasters in Faerûn, though her powers steadily declined as she had to increasingly devote her energies to maintaining her aging body." end quote

slow cape
#

Are there any well known examples of drunken masters in established lore?

empty forge
#

Yk what deity i would consider underrated? Mielikki

fickle lintel
#

Ive been making custom deities this entire time 😭

empty forge
empty forge
fickle lintel
empty forge
#

Selune, shar, tempus, helm, mielikki, silvanus

#

And so many more

real coyote
empty forge
#

Theres even deitys for specific races

#

Not locked to of course but their there

fickle lintel
empty forge
#

I learned about em from baldurs gate

fickle lintel
#

I own strahd and tashas cauldron and im saving up to buy more books

jagged apex
#

the ones you would have heard of via baldur's gate are gods specifically to the forgotten realms setting, but some of those are known to be worshiped in other settings too such as bahamut and tiamat, but the majority of them tend to specific to the setting

jagged apex
# fickle lintel Dnd has deities?...

yes, most settings have an array of deities that are worshiped or have a presence in the setting, exceptions exist though such as darksun, which depending on the edition you are reading either had no gods ever or the gods long since abandoned that world

#

dnd even has it's own versions of gods from real world mythologies and the like, fantastical historical pantheons they are sometimes called, such as the Egyptian, Olympian, Greek, Norse, and other pantheons, granted they are not always 1 to 1 with their source material/inpsiration but often have much in common but just as often also divert