dnd-discussion

[fossil hollow]

why am i going in the soup

[lyric viper]

Cus we wants a cup of ti

[jolly crypt]

That could be good too. Circle of Decay Druid.

[wooden geyser]

Pro tip for LFP/LFDM: search your timezone code in the channels to filter out groups that won't match with you

[woven flint]

Ti :3

[lyric viper]

Remember not to limit yourself too much by looking only for your own timezone. Might be there are games that fit your schedule perfectly in another timezone.

[fossil hollow]

but a ti-moth surely doesnt taste too good

[woven flint]

A moth made of Ti

[lyric viper]

My groups timezones are usually GMT/UTC: -8,-7,-5 ,0, +1, +2

One player starts playing at 7 am and we fear for him. But he refuses to let the time be set back.

Just rolls out of bed, grabs breakfast and choses violence every Sunday.

[violet basin]

chad 7am player

i did the same thing for saturdays, for MTG that started at 8am.... for like 3 years

[warped jay]

Just. How? Are they like in a blood trust where the last person to not miss a session receives eternal life?

[clear crown]

Yo wsp guys I wanna play D&D but I know nothing about it. Can anyone help me?

[violet basin]

D&D is a roll playing game

[warped jay]

@clear crown
Probably wanna post in newcomers to get the best answers, but if you want we can voice chat and I can answer some questions

[glass granite]

Read up on the first few chapters of the free basic rules on #learn-to-play , and feel free to ask any questions you might have.

[clear crown]

Oh brilliant where can we do that?

[warped jay]

Help I dont know how to link channels

[loud tendon]

#dnd-newcomers

[lyric viper]

Damn, yous are all going to put me out of a job.
Love you folk.

[clear crown]

This game is way more popular than I realized so I thought I'd look into it

And I did not know it was 40 years old 💀

[shy stirrup]

It's 50

[lyric viper]

Type hash # then start typing a name. Suggestions often pop up!

[clear crown]

WAIT WHAT 💀

[shy stirrup]

ikr the mind boggles

[lyric viper]

1974!

[glass granite]

So 51 this year

[warped jay]

I need to look up the co-author, I promised the guys at the dnd booth at pax I would.

[lyric viper]

Co-author for D&D? We going way back to Gygax and Arneson, or other editions and other contributors?

[shy stirrup]

The co-authors might be...difficult to reach

[wooden geyser]

@clear crown Magic the Gathering was also created inside DnD as a mini game as another bit of surprising lore for you

[violet basin]

it may surprise some people to learn that the oldest RPG is called Earth, and it's about 4.54 billion years old now. long running game, lots of updates too.

[wooden geyser]

No fckn way...

Are you FOR REAL?!

[sleek cloud]

Born too late to experience the Roman Colosseum in its prime, born too early to know what it’s like to teleport from one place to another, born just the right time to experience D&D

[lyric viper]

As in recently added in?

[wooden geyser]

This has me fckn rolling

[warped jay]

Oh thats so sad. The co founder of GG's company died 2 years after its creation...

[wooden geyser]

The original idea of MTG came from the playing cards in dnd

[naive cedar]

Yeah, I tried it. It’s kind of tedious and the bad guys are all cartoonishly evil

[mystic quest]

does anyone know how to find a campaign to play in as player im confused?

[violet basin]

#find-a-game

[lyric viper]

That I did not know.
I know that MtG was doing really well, so TSR tried copying WotC but didn't do so well, and when WotC bought D&D they applied quite a few MtG philosophies to the game design (Including some not so good philosophies like 'timmy cards' and that they intentionally made it so you could build bad PCs to reward players 'mastering the game' (Deck building, but PCs))

[warped jay]

Can I ask about how to intertwine (or not intertwine) player's backstories here or is that a #dnd-newcomers question?

[mystic quest]

idk I just started playing dnd I just finsihed making my character

[clear lark]

Just ask.

[wooden geyser]

You need to find a group of real people

[mystic quest]

oh you cant in beyond?

[lyric viper]

There are still plenty of the older D&D generation around though. Ed Greenwood who created Forgotten Realms. Frank Mentzer, David Cook, Monte Cook, Robert Kuntz, Jeff Grubb- so many more.

[wooden geyser]

#dnd-newcomers

[glass granite]

Read #find-a-game

[clear lark]

Yep Frank has been active on message boards for as long as I can remember

And he actually answers your questions

[lyric viper]

That actually sounds like a great #dm-discussion question!

[shy stirrup]

Ed Greenwood has his own YouTube channel where he talks about FR, for those lore appreciators out there

[warped jay]

Huzzah! I'm currently formatting the question and will drop it here momentarily.

[marble lion]

#dm-discussion

Just in case you misread

[warped jay]

That's good to know. I'd love to have been a part of creating something like this. And I still might!

[lyric viper]

Margaret Weiss, Darlene, Lisa Smedman, Tracy Hickman... Lot's of content creators from the TSR era around. Many still active in one way or another.

[stray atlas]

so random question

do y'all do anything special for people who get 2 nat 20s when they roll with advantage?

[lyric viper]

(Silvery Barbs)

Mostly just a round table of 'OOOOOOOHH'

[jovial badger]

never happened

[lean wigeon]

RAW nothing
i'd personally let them bank it though as an inspiration

[warped jay]

Alright here goes:

Hello all!

I need some advice creating content for my players based on their backstory.
I have 5 players, all new except 1, we've completed 2 sessions by running the "starter" set where we fought bandits in the first session and then went to the keep in the second and we're heading to the Caves of Chaos for the third.

The problem:

We haven't been able to explore any of their backstories because we've been following the module and I would really like to but I don't know how.

I've been chatting 1-on-1 with a few of them and they're starting to notice I haven't started the... breadcrumb trail? that leads them towards their personal adventure. I had said at the beginning of the first (virtual) session that its likely we won't get to their character's stories until after we get through this first module.

My players were more enthusiastic than I planned for! Which is good! Kind of!

I don't know if I should be trying to combine back stories or even if that's possible or is it mandatory given the amount of people.

I started using a whiteboard and mapping out a single person's story was challenging. Started to feel like a crazy conspiracy theorist after an hour.

Any advice or criticisms would be swell.

[lean wigeon]

it's a 1/400 chance so

[glass granite]

I let them describe the hit, then depending on the description I might add an additional effect

[stray atlas]

personally I give them an inspiration point

[shy stirrup]

A question for #dm-discussion I'll copy it over for you

[jovial badger]

when i was new my dm incorperated all of our backstories as breadcrumbs that only we would pick up, and we werent allowed to share backstories. my goal for example was to retrieve a lost relic from my family's house (hat of vermin) and there was clues like dead rats and stuff that only i would pick up on. a goblin monarch was wearing "a black hat with a rat tail sticking out of it" which no one else in my party took note of. when they were dead, i swiped the hat while no one was looking. after the campaign, we all discussed our backstories and we had all done similar things. for example, one of my party members took a piece of paper off a dead body we found. turns out it was his childhood mentor. I think its cool to incorporate everyones backstory but crumbs that only they will pick up on.

sorry for the essay 😄

[warped jay]

Oh nuts I thought I was there thank you!

[shy stirrup]

I figured, no worries

[umbral girder]

Nope it’s just a cool roll

[jolly crypt]

I think small stuff that has them using knowledge that they have because of their backstories is a good start. Also flashbacks.

[umbral girder]

Replacing some NPCs in the module with characters from their backstories too

[lean wigeon]

i feel like players won't be interested in other players' backstories if they don't know about them, so i personally have my players be transparent about their characters' backstories and in which direction they want to take their characters. it ends up being more collaborative that way, people become more easily invested in other PC's backstories, and it writes itself

[violet basin]

Sometimes players like other players backstories

sometimes they don't care at all...

most players really don't care much about learning other player's characters backstories, but they are more than happy to tell their own...

<- typically writes 4-6 pages 12 pnt single paced backstroies and wonders why no one reads them.

[lean wigeon]

i personally can't give a crap about another character if i don't know anything about them OOC. it's pretty hard to get invested in them that way, and if there's like some big grand reveal, revelation, or development for their character story-wise, i can't really react because i haven't been given enough context ahead of time to figure out how i'm supposed to have my character react

[marble lion]

if you have no interest in other characters after weeks or months of playing, that sounds like a failing on the tables side

unless you also have no interest in any other thing in the game

story-wise i mean

[tender pier]

Im actually going insane rn on the ammount of mathematics to make a formula for a homebrew system.... Bruh i despise math so much

[violet basin]

yea

[tender pier]

Im slowly going insane trying not to encounter advanced mathematics

[umbral girder]

This is what happens when you make a homebrew system so good luck

[marble lion]

Formula in ttrpg?

[minor cargo]

So one thing that has slowly gotten more popular, but hasn't really taken off is using another RPG to do character/world backstory. Adventure Zone did it with The Quiet Year, and I know I've used microRPGs (usually lyrical) to do backstories with characters but... we'll see if the community as a whole vibes with it.

[marble lion]

Advanced mathematics?

[minor cargo]

MASKS, a popular PBTA TTPRG, actually has this idea baked into characters. Time will tell, but I think this stuff can really help for D&D.

[marble lion]

Why

[humble cairn]

I've looked at MASKS before, they say to use a different system to make back story?

[minor cargo]

Sorry, not to use a diff RPG, but it's part of character creation.

When you make characters as part of the first session, it asks you questions about how you overcame a great difficulty and how it impacted you as young adults.

"I saved someone; it cost me X."
"I was too afraid of Y and didn't act fast enough."
"I hope nobody saw Z."

That sorta stuff.

[humble cairn]

Ahh yes PBTA directed questions. I love them.

[marble lion]

What kind of benefit is there in using a different system for your prologue though?
Its just a medium

[tender pier]

ITs just hell for me

[timid current]

novel mechanics can bring forth new ideas

[marble lion]

I feel like it may benefit other games who dont get much attention like a band that lets indies preplay

[minor cargo]

D&D is generally a really bad system for "lyrical" games. It tends to steer away from the types of questions that provoke a lot of conversations in order to prioritize resolution. Not sure rif that makes sense.

[marble lion]

Ah so the point is not to use any different system but rather a system better for narrationplay

[humble cairn]

Other systems which have given more methodical thought to the back story process. It can get better quality back stories. And by that I don't mean longer.

[minor cargo]

Yeah, we can get into the semantics if we really have to, but at the end of the day, I have some RPGs in my backpocket that do a great job of "setting up" a party/world - and D&D can handle the more episodic gameplay.

[humble cairn]

Not all ttrpg systems require math at all. Also the folks in #homebrew might be able to help you.

[minor cargo]

@humble cairn Do I have you for a while? I've had a question for a while that I wanted to get your thoughts on. 👀

It's about being queer if that intices you lmao

[tender pier]

Thx for the advnice

[lean wigeon]

token-based/diceless systems really intrigue me

[humble cairn]

Sure! I was just about to go make an Instagram post, but this sounds more interesting.

[minor cargo]

You're in luck. You can do both 😜

So Sandy Peterson, one of the creators of Call of Cthulu, has said multiple times that he has many beloved family members who are openly gay. But in the same breath (tweet) will say that their identity never comes up in games. Therefore, when playing any TTRPG, anyone who focuses on their queer identity is generally being selfish or inconsiderate. Basically, he claims that their identity is used as a way to force an agenda.

Now, me myself, I'm not closeted but a lot of my identities are invisible (I feel like we've talked about this) so my personal experience only informs me so much. I was curious if your experience lines up with any of this idea and if you had any other thoughts?

My goal is not to like... come to any profound understanding or anything like that. Just to just like... listen to you talk on the topic because I kinda love your opinions on this sorta stusff.

[humble cairn]

Ugh, this is more of that "I'm used to being the default so anything besides the default feels like a personal attack."

[atomic kayak]

or the related "if someone publically makes mention of something that isn't like me (the default) then they are obviously pushing an agenda"

[humble cairn]

Like why shouldn't people play characters that resonate with themselves? And why shouldn't their own personal stories be the focus of their character? Maybe there is an agenda, but "I just want to be seen as being a normal part of the world, because I am" is not any sort of insidious or even political agenda. It's just wanting to be seen and represented as the normal people that we are.

It really feels like those people who say that you can be gay, but "don't shove it in my face." They pretend to be comfortable with you, but telling you to hide your identity or your personality is not a sign of comfort, it's trying to make you invisible and ultimately trying to shame you out of existence.

[minor cargo]

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought you'd say. Like, we can extend this conversation to really any marginalized identity.

"Why would you want to be Black? Asian?"
"Why would you want your character to have a disability?" etc.

It's such an... odd thing to take away from your interactions with queer folks.

If I can extend this conversation a bit (feel free to respond as you like), have you ever experienced this at a table? How did that go? 😬

[humble cairn]

I don't think I've ever experienced it, personally. One, I gamed with close friends for a very long time, but after that group I usually vet a group before joining, and I can smell this kind of thing a mile away.

[minor cargo]

I like describing it as a "smell". I immediately know what you mean but can't better describe it.

[humble cairn]

So I would just avoid the group before I had to get slapped in the face with this.

[west vale]

What sort of vetting process do you use?

[lean wigeon]

this feels very "i have black friends"

[brittle beacon]

I experience the opposite of this where my party members were on the fence about playing black characters and I had to explain to the that it was fine to do so because they wanted to but were so on the fence about it.

[humble cairn]

I mean just reading the post about it can tell you a lot. If they mention in the post that they are LGBTQ+ friendly that already says a lot.

And then, how willing they are to even have a Session 0 and talk about comfort levels and safety tools.

[minor cargo]

This is 💯 how I felt about it, but like... sometimes I try to open it up a bit. Sometimes (let's face it, often) my knee-jerk reaction isn't right. So I'm thankful for spaces like this (and others) where I can kind of... gracefully ask for some insight and listen and learn from others.

[humble cairn]

So yeah, those two things: 1) Open statement about being a safe group for minorities and 2) Action taken to actively listen to safety issues.

Then I keep an eye open for fishy statements, I don't know how to describe the kind of fishyness I'm talking about but things like, "You're not like those annoying gays" and then be willing to push the issue, "What do you mean by that?"

[minor cargo]

@clear lark Earlier today, you had mentioned how you thought Session Zeroes are a waste of time. Thought you might get value out of what Ophidimancer is saying here - and the value of just like a... "talk it out" session. No response needed! ✌️

[atomic kayak]

Yea, playing a black character (or any character of an ethnicity you are not) on a surface level is fine. Theres obviously a lot more too it than that, but still.

Reminders me of one of the forewords of the Coyote and Crow game about non-indigenous players playing indigenous characters in that game (since its the point of the system).

Simulateously there is also the difference between playing a black character and playing a Black™ character - I don't personally have the words nor experience for that specifically but its (as something I do have the words and experience for) similar to play a gay character. (If you do want some good words about that though, Lou Wilson and Aabria Iyengar have talked about the concept a good amount in the Fireside chats for the Worlds Beyond Number podcast. Most especially because Lou very intentionally is playing his character as the latter type of character and how it all ties into identity and experience)

[timid current]

I love a session zero

[timid current]

do you have any black players?

[brittle beacon]

2 black/ Caribbean, 2 Asian, one white

I am one of black people

[minor cargo]

amazing reference. For context:

A Message To non-Native America Players
If you do not have heritage Indigenous to the Americas, we ask you not to incorporate any of your knowledge or ideas of real world Native Americans into the game. Not only may this be culturally in-
sensitive, but many of the assumptions you might make would not fit into this timeline. Instead, delve into the details of the world you are given without trying to rewrite history or impose your perspective.
Please avoid the following:
[Lists out some tropes]

[atomic kayak]

(gonna quote the aforemantioned forward + a few extra bit b/c relevance)

If you have Indigenous heritage from the Americas, we invite you to add your personal knowledge and cultural traditions to your Character and to this game in any way you and your fellow Players see fit. Feel free to include an alternate history of your tribe or nation into this world and make it a part of your game in any way that is enjoyable. Or don't. There's nothing that says your Character has to be from your tribe. That's entirely up to you.

If you do not have heritage Indigenous to the Americas, we ask you not to incorporate any of your knowledge or ideas of real world Native Americans into the game. Not only may this be culturally insensitive, but many of the assumptions you might make would not fit into this timeline. Instead, delve into the details of the world you are given without trying to rewrite history or impose your perspective

[umbral girder]

Oh that’s pretty cool! I have avoided that game because I am Native American and was very worried to see what that game will entail.

[atomic kayak]

Steve beat me to it

[cerulean monolith]

too slow swamp

[woven flint]

Hello, friends :>

[atomic kayak]

As far as I am aware nearly the entire team is Indigenous and made for basically the exact reason you seem to be worried about - to have a game where that isn't something that needs to be worried about (its also a really cool setting and fun game system, but that would be more on the #non-dnd-topics side of things )

[glass granite]

Gooood morning afternoon evening, Wahzzup!

[woven flint]

Doing well, kinda achey, hru?

[glass granite]

Same, except it’s my throat

[cerulean monolith]

Anyways I think the difference between "black and black™" as Swamp put it comes down to what you are portraying. Portraying a character with dark skin requires no knowledge, history, or context. Portraying a character intended to mimic any real-world culture should be handled with extreme care, and in many situations and locales it would be socially inappropriate or insensitive to do so.

[minor cargo]

You formatted yours better.

[atomic kayak]

The PDF formatting (and fixing it) strikes again

[tender pier]

Is anyone here a expert in google docs?

[cerulean monolith]

in what way? ask a question and see if someone can answer it

[atomic kayak]

Yea thats also why I mentioned the talks Lou and Aabria have had about it because they word it all very well (I don't want to mention specifics too much b/c its technically spoilers for their campaign) about how the identity of Lou's character (both in and out of game) is very much about being Black. Not just a character who has dark skin.

[turbid vessel]

a lot of it comes down to intent. in the real world, there are experiences and pieces of history that many within a racial or ethnic grouping feel are intrinsic to their identity. Although I am not black myself, I doubt there are a significant number of African Americans who would say that the Trans-Atlantic slave trade (and all its repercussions) have no lingering effects on their communities in the present. So when someone says for example "I want to play a black character," what really are they looking for?
i always encourage people to dig a little further into this line of thought when they encounter it. What traits, either physical or social, are you looking to take inspiration from? And especially, what are the origins of those traits? So often do i see well-meaning people rely on only their outsider-knowledge of an ethnic group to fuel their roleplaying, and it ends up as a very disingenuous display without even realizing it.
Suffice to say, I would never say someone couldn't play a character that is a race other than their own, but i will always be the advocate of thinking critically about what that would entail. who knows, you may discover some implicit biases you didn't even realize you had.

[west vale]

I've seen people ask these types of questions when the combat wheelchair first got some attention.

[atomic kayak]

Oh certainly, thats why I prefaced my statement with "on a surface level" - because theres always more discussion to be had about the deeper parts of it

[tender pier]

For more context, i just need someone to see my WIP homebrew character sheet and see some criticisms about it

Also i need help with google doc's tables, like tips for it

[fickle heart]

Without the context of what they even mean by it, I'm curious to know what SP even means by "focus[ing] on their queer identity." That's not meant to be a defense to the statement, but it seems so at odds with them having very close ties to family members and, assuming they have any self-awareness, gives the impression that they may be assuming or referring to some dramatic depiction that very few queer people are even doing/interested in doing in a TTRPG game.

[humble cairn]

Representation of people of different backgrounds and identities is great, but it should be done sensitively. And I think it definitely should be on the flavor side of things rather than the mechanical side of things.

[rough basalt]

A lot of the tweets I see from them are kinda bleh

[atomic kayak]

In my experience, 9/10 times when somebody complains about "focusing on identity" it is because they don't want to see the identity represented at all

even if they don't expressely say that

[rough dove]

This is… not what I was expecting when I first joined this sever. I don’t hate it, though!

[rough basalt]

I blocked them cause any time DnD does anything they say some dumb stuff

[glass granite]

Welcome to the team

[tender pier]

If anyone can help me just Dm me

[rough dove]

Thanks

[rough basalt]

Usually hateful adjacent as well

Doesn't say stuff outright but implies it

[brittle beacon]

thats something we had to kick someone out for in my old groups

[west vale]

Your best bet is to share it at the channel #homebrew

[humble cairn]

Sandy Peterson? Yeah I'm researching right now and it's not great.

[atomic kayak]

The overlap between "a big enough fan of cthulu-mythos to make a game about it" and "has bad opinions like that" is not as separate a pair of circles on a venn diagram as one might hope

[minor cargo]

I have two members of my immediate family who are gay. They are welcomed to every gathering. I would die for them. I think their lifestyle is bad for them, and grieve about it. But it is also not up to me to direct their life.

One of my gay family members is interested in games. When I played RPGs with them, the topic of their character’s sexual attraction NEVER CAME UP. Instead they explored the dungeon, engaged in court politics, fought the monsters, and went to town to recover.

Who would have thought it was possible to have fun without constantly waving a flag?

I have gay members in my immediate family. You know what I noticed? They don’t base THEIR WHOLE LIVES around being gay. They’re interested in cooking, science, linguistics, monster movies, their naughty pet cats, and so forth.
They aren’t constantly talking about their sexuality. They live with partners and sometimes their hair gets dyed funny colors. I’m sure they v* for pro-gay initiatives.

Being gay doesn’t define them as persons. Why should it? Being straight doesn’t define me as a person. I do know straight people who seem to define themselves by s*, and they’re deathly dull to hang around. The same is true of gays who define themselves by s**. Just be a person. With interests higher than your cro*.

A member of my immediate family is gay. They like games, including roleplaying games. When I play with them, the topic of their character's s*attraction never came up. Not once. They explored dungeons, squabbled over court politics, went on overland adventures, had quests, and visited town to recover.

It's possible to have fun without constantly waving the bl* flag.

as the faithf* father of a gay man, my understanding is that being attracted to the same sex is not a si* - it's probably genetic, on the same order as having vitiligo or cerebral palsy. But acting on those impulses is as wrong as it is for a straight man to cheat on his wife

(Sorry, had to try to work around some of the automod stuff here. I Think it's still okay.)

The above are some of the tweets he has made. I'm hoping it provides more context. ✌️

[atomic kayak]

the fact the immediate framing is "I think its bad for them and grieve about it" doesn't even require the rest for context tbh

[lean wigeon]

"i have black friends"

[rough basalt]

Yeah thats the kind of energy i get from their tweets

[old sluice]

Reading this cost me a decade of my life

[brittle beacon]

same

[rough basalt]

I will say they are right about one thing

[woven flint]

I've aged about 30 years 😔

[rough basalt]

If your only personality trait is your sexuality, you're usually pretty dull.

[fossil hollow]

oh boy what am i walking into

[timid current]

it's true, being gay does not define them. but it certainly is a part of their definition (if they are real)

[brittle beacon]

its been a fun talk tbh

[marble lion]

Wow "their lifestyle"

[cerulean monolith]

“I can barely tell they’re gay! All that happens is that they vote and have silly hair colors!”

[old sluice]

We are all stupider from having read this.

[fossil hollow]

yeah, does seem like it (gimme the deets :3)

[marble lion]

I wonder why your player isnt showing their homosexuality around a guy who thinks they are living a bad lifestyle

[cerulean monolith]

Portraying a feature vs portraying a culture that shares said feature, basically

[hot marlin]

How is that player even friends with this person?

[marble lion]

Family ties

[fossil hollow]

Oh boy

[cerulean monolith]

I.e playing a PC with dark skin vs playing a character intended to mimic African or African-American culture

[marble lion]

That is crazy though. Calling any sexuality a lifestyle is just wrong

[timid current]

the best way to find out what's going on is to read the things that made you say "what am I walking into"

[woven flint]

Some people are far too kind and waste their time on people who think their happiness is a crime.

[timid current]

the exasperation / bewilderment upon walking into a conversation that you can scroll up even a little bit is a form of editorialising

[minor cargo]

Here might be a good milestone to read back from ✌️
#dnd-discussion message

[timid current]

it's transparent and kind of played out lol

[fossil hollow]

what?

[tame estuary]

it's alright

[humble cairn]

Ooooofffff .... 🙁

[cerulean monolith]

It was a long discussion. It’s not wrong to want to be able to jump in and have it summarized instead of having to reread tons of messages for context

[fickle heart]

This doesn't make me feel better about them at all, but it at least helps inform that this is most likely a big strawman (on SP's part), attacking stuff people aren't actually saying.

[fossil hollow]

dont need the sass, i just finished up a session

so forgive me for trying to get a lowdown

[tame estuary]

eat up your springroll

[timid current]

pardon me. I'll word it friendlier. "the context you're looking for is in the text you are bewildered by"

[cerulean monolith]

What if I want a fallroll:(

[fossil hollow]

"Fall" I need a WIS save please

[minor cargo]

For sure. Yeah, and totally keep me accountable for flattening/"strawmanning" arguments. I'm not immune to this. 😔

[old sluice]

It's especially funny considering how many artists have injected queer themes in their contributions to the Cthulhu mythos

[woven flint]

What about winterolls?

[rough basalt]

They make the way for springrolls

[cerulean monolith]

People shouldn’t be expected to read all of a dictionary to get the definition of a single word

[fickle heart]

Apologies. SP's strawman. I edited above.

[minor cargo]

Ah, statement still stands. Don't let me get away with BS either lmao.

[old sluice]

Anyways so playing black characters as a non-black person was how this conversation started?

[cerulean monolith]

Yes

[humble cairn]

Ok that comment about waving the BL flag hit me personally as an avid BL fan.

[marble lion]

No

[cerulean monolith]

Not yes

[marble lion]

It started with steve showing a quote by sp

[humble cairn]

This was the start of the convo: #dnd-discussion message

[marble lion]

The quote was about gay exposure in ttrpgs

[minor cargo]

lmao I am so sorry. This is my bad attempt at trying to censor what might trigger automod. BL in this case stands for "bloody". Not the fun kind of BL.

[lean wigeon]

i do wish there was more representation of MLM stuff in media

[brittle beacon]

its a lot to cover but a few things are. Taking about portraying groups your not a part of. General understanding of how it can be done well and wrong.

[cerulean monolith]

When D&D yaoi 🙁

[humble cairn]

Ah, haha

[fossil hollow]

talk to jarlaxle

[errant robin]

I got in the server

[rough basalt]

There is in Eve of Ruin

[humble cairn]

Have you not seen some of the Dungeon Meshi doujinshi?

[old sluice]

One piece of art. One! And suddenly it became the most noticeable thing about those two characters.

[brittle beacon]

There are a bunch of comics for that

[woven flint]

Give me my gay monster man comics NOW!!!!!

[fossil hollow]

i wouldnt call that DnD yaoi though 😭

[knotty pasture]

Considering that you can admit that you want to bed a cambion in bg3

[humble cairn]

Wait .. what piece of art are we talking about?

[knotty pasture]

There's definitely yaoi

[spring flicker]

when you go round up the kobolds. We also need to find oil.. lots of oil..

[rough basalt]

Look, the history books said they were roommates who often hung out together just the two of them

[fossil hollow]

Vecna and Kas being very fruity

[humble cairn]

Ok I need to see this .. gimme gimme?

[old sluice]

Vecna and Kas making plans in a... Lovely garden admittedly

[woven flint]

I've never found myself attracted to Devils in D&D

The Demon Lords though
Stares at Baphomet and Orcus

[fossil hollow]

That joke is also like, a running gag in this server at this point

Yes, Kas and Vecna were roomates

[humble cairn]

And the epitome of "oh no he's hot" himself, Graz'zt.

[rough basalt]

We need a parody of friends but Fiends, and it's the notable demon lords

[woven flint]

I want Baphomet to be my Patron 😔

[knotty pasture]

Idk I'd be attracted to a succubus myself

[atomic kayak]

something something queer themes about how you can only have a rivalry running for so long before it becomes at least a bit gay

[fossil hollow]

unfortunately cannot, im not sure where it is in the book, and i dont wanna spoil myself for Nealen's game

[old sluice]

To be fair, I kind of understand it. Vecna and Kas are one-dimensional characters. As empty as it gets. So this art actually fleshes out their character more than the last thirty years of D&D

[rough basalt]

Demogorgon, Lolth, Orcus, Baphomet, Grazzt

[knotty pasture]

My characters would(?) at least

[past blaze]

literally the demon lord of "being hot" yeah

[past blaze]

I can imagine the theme including "I won't be there for you"

[knotty pasture]

The Tiefling would definitely go for it, dunno about the Aasimar

[cerulean monolith]

Don’t they magically compel people to be attracted to them?

[spring flicker]

I have no idea what is going on here.. I was skimming past the identity represetnation discussion.. then dnd yaoi.. now "they were just room mates"

[woven flint]

I should play my Minotaur Death Cleric in Avernus 🤔

[rough basalt]

Even says on his statblock
"Demon Lord of Hot"

[fossil hollow]

welcome to teh DnD server

[knotty pasture]

I mean sure that too but what if they didn't throw a spell at said person and said person is attracted to them anyways

[brittle beacon]

"And they were roommate"
"Omg they were roommates"

[humble cairn]

Ok I think I found it. It's pre-lichification for sure and yes, they do seem very cozy.

[rough basalt]

I think some Succubi/Incubi try to do things without magic

[fossil hollow]

"I willingly fail the save"
"They didn't-"
"I FAIL THE SAVE"

[rough basalt]

For the fun of it

[hot marlin]

Magic is for fools and incapables.

[past blaze]

While that wouldn't be strictly true, there does seem to be some kind of narrative version of evolutionary carcinization where the people who haven't managed to kill each other garner at least some kind of respect or other positive feelings for each other despite an ongoing rivalry of some kind

[knotty pasture]

It is an art to make quicksaves in bg3 just to fail those saves on purpose if you get what I mean

[humble cairn]

I like the internet idea that the species is "Concubus" with the subforms just being what they are called in their gendered guises.

[hot marlin]

Subtlety is the name of the game.

[knotty pasture]

You sometimes just want to see what happens like watching fireworks

[fossil hollow]

arent you thinking of a wizard in DiA

[rough basalt]

I like that

Man I wanna play a wizard

[fickle heart]

I just question if SP has actually ever played with someone queer whose character wasn't overdramatized, because it seems like they're either extremely un-self-aware with how bigoted it is or they're fighting against a strawman of what people would generally consider problematic characters anyways, regardless of their sexual orientation. After all, people are very tired of the frisky Bard trope, and I think that tracks regardless of the Bard's orientation.

[woven flint]

Then play one

[fossil hollow]

wait, what is everyone even playing in that campaign. I know theres a monk and artificer

[rough basalt]

Tuesday has 2 or 3 if Rowan dies and Friday has one.

[hot marlin]

Yes but it would be a very foolish character

[fossil hollow]

looking forward to it

[humble cairn]

I don't know him, but I'm gonna bet that's a no.

[umbral girder]

Just do a different subclass

[rough basalt]

I just don't wanna step on toes

[spring flicker]

hmm weird.. i got a minute time out for mentioning a web comic about an angel that was a bit closetted in response to sublime

[tame estuary]

moth why don't we do collab sessions sometimes

[fossil hollow]

collab sessions?

[tame estuary]

you run DiA, I run DiA, in the same hour

[woven flint]

I'm tempted to play a Minotaur, but I dunno if I want to at the same time 😔

The urge to be the parties monster himbo is strong

[rough dove]

my thoughts as well 😂

[fossil hollow]

I feel like that would be very hectic

[spring flicker]

I just used the word that started with H and described the pointy things on a tieflings head.

[rough basalt]

Tho the wizard I wanna play is a Bladesinger so probably less toe stepping

[tame estuary]

sometimes we have a 2DM 10 player session

[atomic kayak]

generally speaking, if someone is complaining about "the flag" they don't care about how bigoted they are being. If they aren't specifically doing it on purpose that is.

[fossil hollow]

dew eat

[woven flint]

Do I succumb to the urges?

[rough basalt]

Reminds me I played a Minotaur in 2 shot once
I kool aid manned through a castle wall

[umbral girder]

So talk with the other player.

[fossil hollow]

fail the saving throw, ive been waitiing

[umbral girder]

Build in a way that doesn’t overlap

[knotty pasture]

Speaking of urges

[woven flint]

What's the save, lemme roll it

[fossil hollow]

Wisdom

[rough basalt]

Talking is beyond my skills.
I'll simply play another one of my character ideas

[umbral girder]

Counterspell

[tame estuary]

I mean you can make the EoR character the minotaur

[woven flint]

Hmmm, I typically pump Wisdom pretty high

[fossil hollow]

DC 25

[opaque gazelle]

👋

[knotty pasture]

Some subclasses do feel harder to flavor than the others, I was just looking up at Conquest Paladin and the whole vibe feels very grimy/evil, not Oathbreaker bad but a bit tough to justify being a good person

[spring flicker]

just have an entire party of wizards.. harry potter that sheet

[rough basalt]

Yeah Conquests base flavor is very evil coded

[timid current]

conquest paladins can be the most humanitarian paladins

[fossil hollow]

They are also called Hellriders

[meager fractal]

What's going on everyone

[rough basalt]

It's about stomping the weak, and crushing the lights of hope in their eyes

[knotty pasture]

Glory also sounds very selfish, not as bad as Conquest

[woven flint]

Natural 1 (I didn't roll)

I'm going be a Minotaur...

Paladin? Barbarian? Do a dumb and play an Artificer? 🤔

[timid current]

victory doesn't mean murder. doing what you can to make your opponent surrender is just as viable to conquer

[fossil hollow]

i think Eggman is already playing arti

[knotty pasture]

That's good thinking

[umbral girder]

Earth Genasi

[spring flicker]

play a bard. All your songs are variations of Moo

[woven flint]

I'm killing him /j

[tame estuary]

earth genasi genie paladin

[rough basalt]

Yep, you kill your enemies loved one then fortnite emote on their body to achieve conquest

[woven flint]

That's too demeaning, I love playing prideful and headstrong Minotaurs lol

[knotty pasture]

They're kind of like Redemption Paladins in their own way then, they also aim to convince people to be good (sometimes by bashing them in the head first)

[rough basalt]

Yeah redemption is a bit of an awkward sub

[fossil hollow]

"I am here to save you from yourselves"

[opaque gazelle]

Hey

[glass granite]

Hey

[fossil hollow]

Hey

• Miles Morales

[woven flint]

"I won't moo, but I'll bury you head in the dirt, jackass!"

[rough basalt]

Cause it can force the party to go non-lethal to keep the redemption pally around

[knotty pasture]

Redemption's a lot easier if your teammates' actions don't cause you to oath break

[fossil hollow]

Ehhh, thats a group thing

[fickle heart]

This is my thought as well. It sounds like they have this weird preconceived notion that any mention of sexual orientation in-game will have this snowball effect to the point it takes over the game. I think most people would also be uncomfortable with that happening, which gives the impression that they're not actually even engaging with the topic that anyone else would be engaging with lol

[knotty pasture]

You could just knock everyone out and have your teammates kill them while turning a blind eye

[opaque gazelle]

Do yall know any way to find real life dnd campaigns

[fossil hollow]

Checking out local game stores

[opaque gazelle]

I’m new to all of this

[spring flicker]

reddit is not too bad.. if youre not banned..

[woven flint]

I should do an Unarmed Fighting minotaur paladin 👁️
Make him a glory paladin

Or I could do a beast barbarian 🤔

[fossil hollow]

love a pally

[umbral girder]

Depends on what they fight

[spring flicker]

you also have the horn rush racial for minotaurs when you dash 20ft

[umbral girder]

Like unintelligent creatures are probably fine to put down

Like zombies or animal like monsters

[rough basalt]

True, unless you get the Redemption pally that is like "look I know Orcus killed thousands of people, but he's just misunderstood"

[woven flint]

Best give me items to do unarmed fighting better with, bucko
stares

[opaque gazelle]

What are the names of those

[rough basalt]

You'd have to google

[fossil hollow]

i dunno where you live. Just search up DnD near me or something in google maps

[rough basalt]

Most LGS's I'm aware of are independently owned so ^

[knotty pasture]

I guess one way to play a Redemption Paladin could be a negotiator or ambassador of sorts but with a big sword, you try to convince someone nicely but if they don't listen you just hack them to pieces

[fossil hollow]

wyrm reaver gauntlets added to wishlist

[opaque gazelle]

How should you approach people if you’re wanting to play with them

[woven flint]

🧐
Mhhh, yes.

[fossil hollow]

you ask

[umbral girder]

Ask them

[rough basalt]

I think Games Workshop has official LGS's but generally it's independently owned shops

[spring flicker]

i dont think the american style game stores are a thing here. The only game stores here that have any sort of TTRPG sessions is for WH40K

[opaque gazelle]

So like people in the store I should just come up to them and ask can I come to your house and play dnd

[rough basalt]

Time to waaaaaagh then

[spring flicker]

thats the one, games workshop

[rough dove]

very smart /silly

[rough basalt]

Get an Ork army.
Join da boyz

[fossil hollow]

if your local game store has dnd, you can ask the employees, If they dont, they will tell you

[opaque gazelle]

I’ll try to get into one

[rough dove]

Ah, LOTR flashbacks.

[rough basalt]

Warhammer Orks are hilarious

[opaque gazelle]

I’ll update yall on my progress

[spring flicker]

just go on reddit r/dndlfg, r/(your city)dnd, r/3d6, etc

[rough basalt]

Literally the funniest and scariest in a scary funny faction I've ever witnessed in anything

[brittle beacon]

I like the mechanicus

[spring flicker]

most will say either online of offline in their LFG or LFP

[rough basalt]

Personally I'm a Sororitas guy

[spring flicker]

ijust stick to VTT DnD.. hard to maintain an in person group when youre away at sea for 6 months

[rough basalt]

Definitely

[violet basin]

this

[rough basalt]

Tho could try and indoctrinate your shipmates to dnd

[spring flicker]

how do you think I got started on dnd?

[rough basalt]

Ah you were the indocrinee

[timid current]

press ganging

[marble lion]

I like virtual dnd more because i completely slip into the game world instead of seeing the real people before me

[spring flicker]

one of the boys goes, we're playing dnd, everyone roll up a toon.. said.. sure.. and 5 years later..

[jovial badger]

real

[woven flint]

My ex-boyfriend got me into D&D, and I curse him for it!!!

Nah, he was a chill guy, but I blame him for my obsession

[trail wigeon]

Greetings,I have arrived once again to this server as I had disband for I had issues with my account. But no fear as I once again am here

[spring flicker]

first game was a goliath drakewarden.. tiefling light cleric.. tortle lawful stupid paladin.. warforged lawful stupid paladin.. halfling life cleric based on friar tuck from robinhood men in tights that enjoyed giving the hostages the snip.. a muder hobo fairy rogue, and an elven druid

[glossy otter]

quick question about lycanthropy, is it that only hummanoids can contract it?

[humble cairn]

You'll always have D&D.

[warped jay]

and you have my sword.

[robust current]

I'm new to dnd where could I try to or play with anyone

[glossy otter]

and you have my axe

[jovial badger]

hm

[spring flicker]

#looking-for-players

[trail wigeon]

And my magic wand

[jovial badger]

and you have my +1 to hit 0 dmg unarmed strike

[spring flicker]

you will have to search through timezones to find one that lines up. Seems to be a lot in the US times, not much in the AU times

[rough dove]

And my glock- /silly

[woven flint]

And you have my.. uh..
Guys, I lost my equipment again!
Can we stop by the shop in town?

[umbral girder]

Seems to be in 5e at least. But I’m sure with how old DnD is there is exceptions

[marble lion]

Your wits

[spring flicker]

would seem weird a quadruped getting lycanthropy and suddenly walking on 2 legs.

[rough dove]

Here’s 100 gold

[spring flicker]

maybe if its like a centaur, the top half becomes a werewolf..

[warped jay]

What happens when a wolf gets lycanthropy

[spring flicker]

becomes steve from HR

[woven flint]

Thanks, brother 🧐 🤝

[marble lion]

It becomes a direwolf

[rough dove]

gotchu

[marble lion]

Anything that is infected to be a werewolf gets bigger and wolfier

[glossy otter]

werewolf manticore

[woven flint]

You know, I'd play a Centaur but I dunno how comfortable I am with people asking to ride me lol

[marble lion]

For a wolf that would mean bigger and more exaggerated wolf features

[warped jay]

Ww mimic, holy sht thats the monster from the movie "It"

[jovial badger]

centaur is motm?

[glossy otter]

i'd tell em buy a horse as i'd ride mine

[marble lion]

Just say no then

[timid current]

only humanoids are subject to a werewolf's curse

[woven flint]

I could play a Centaur paladin and divine smite with my hooves 🤔

DIVINE DROPKICK

[spring flicker]

like that meme where the human has a centaur father and a minotaur mother.. you're human, your sister is a bull centaur

[rough dove]

Is it only humanoids?

[timid current]

I mean I did just type those exact words

[glossy otter]

i love for a while RAW centaurs could ride horses

[warped jay]

I don't know man, rule of cool seems pretty strong here.

[timid current]

the coolest rule is not pinging people who have asked to not be pinged

[marble lion]

The question wasnt about whats cool

[timid current]

and you can literally do whatever you want at your table, I am not denying that

[warped jay]

Oh my bad, didn't see.

[timid current]

for future reference if you take a look at the name you're replying to, people who would rather not be pinged tend to have it right in their server name

[marble lion]

If someone comes here to ask about if something is or isnt the case, hearing do what you want isnt gonna help them much

[timid current]

it also helps to make sure you're replying to the right person

[marble lion]

Even though its true

[warped jay]

....how...?

[timid current]

"hey what's this rule" "this rule is x" "yeah but you can do whatever you want" yes, you are correct. but that doesn't affect the answer to the question

[marble lion]

The thing is that they might want the canon way of doing it so until they find out, they dont know

[timid current]

we already all agree that rule zero exists

[marble lion]

On the other hand they may want to know when they homebrew things just to keep the record straight

[timid current]

the question wasn't "what houserules do you use for lycanthropy and who can be subject to it"

[glossy otter]

most dms wouldn't allow it for the most part but it was because medium creatures can ride larger ones like horses or something like that iirc

[old sluice]

There is zero point in answering "Hey you can rule of cool X" to the question "What's the rule around X?". It is at best unhelpful.

[warped jay]

Ah that makes sense

[deft relic]

Hii

[old sluice]

And yeah. PC centaurs are medium size. Somehow

[runic mulch]

Wait, WHAT?!

[woven flint]

(Looks at Pathfinder Minotaur and Centaur both being large PC species)

Why can't you do THIS, Wotc? >:[

[timid current]

it's a different system

[old sluice]

It gets especially weird if the PC centaur goes to their hometown and every other centaur is large size

[timid current]

please stop pinging me. And pathfinder is not a WOTC product

[umbral girder]

Also there is a lot of effects that change if you play a Large PC in D&D

[timid current]

why would you ping me to lie lmao

[umbral girder]

Different game different rules and all that.

[old sluice]

No. Pathfinder is made by Paizo, D&D by Wizards of the Coast

[umbral girder]

Big No.

[runic mulch]

I did not know that

[timid current]

then why did you say it?

[runic mulch]

Sorry

[old sluice]

Moreover "same company" would have been irrelevant.

[runic mulch]

I thought it was the same company

I take my words back

[woven flint]

It's okay, you didn't do anything bad

[runic mulch]

Also, sorry. I didn't remember that it pings people if you don't turn off the @

[old sluice]

The same company that made the Game of Thrones RPG is also the one that made multiple Warhammer 40k RPGs. Yet comparing the knights of Westeros and the Grey Knights space marines would just be crazy

[timid current]

they aren't the same as a different company's other game for the same reason that the monster manual's Barghest is not a 70 quad mech with 2 ER large lasers and an LB-X 20

(though I vastly prefer D&D Barghests to Battletech Barghests~)

[old sluice]

You could have a fiend Barghest pilot a mech Barghest though!

[timid current]

you could, but they have an intelligence score so they'd probably pick a different mech >.>

[old sluice]

(No, don't do that)

Most likely

[woven flint]

Folks, who is your favorite fictional wizard?

Mine is Big Hat Logan from Dark Souls :>

[old sluice]

Ahzek Ahriman from 40K maybe?

[umbral girder]

Ralsei from Deltarune

[timid current]

Andy Andy from the Guardians of the Flame series

[woven flint]

Respectable choices

[old sluice]

Bellegar from the Divinity series?

I feel that in a couple years a lot of people might answer that question with a Frieren character

[umbral girder]

Admittedly my criteria of Wizard is
-Big Hat
-Nerd
-Magic

[timid current]

I'm sure there are people who prefer it already

[woven flint]

Big Hat Logan:

It's literally in his title :0

[woven flint]

Too bad he eventually
Spoilers ig? For a 13 year old game: ||Goes hollow and attacks you at some point if you buy all his sorceries||

[old sluice]

Well by that standard, Odin counts

[umbral girder]

Good enough for me

I suppose my requirements makes Dr Strange not a wizard. Oh well.

[timid current]

he isn't the wizard supreme

[umbral girder]

Sacrifices are required.

[naive cedar]

sorcerer supreme

[timid current]

you pinged me to make the same point as me

[naive cedar]

oh I read that wrong lol sorry. I thought it was a question

[timid current]

please stop pinging me

[umbral girder]

Bro put an emote on his own message

[timid current]

thank you

[naive cedar]

alright

[timid current]

I'll do it again

[old sluice]

Wizard etymologically means wise person. Wise is the one thing Strange is not.

He's generally borderline moronic.

[umbral girder]

How many wizards are actually wise?

[timid current]

4

[woven flint]

AGAIN 👀
Do it again

[naive cedar]

that reminds me of something I was thinking about the other day: in fantasy lingo is there a difference between a mage and a wizard besides wizard being associated with Merlin types?

[cerulean monolith]

how much wisdom could a wizard wisen if a wizard could wisen wisdom?

[umbral girder]

Wizard is the specific and Mage is the generalization

[timid current]

depends on the fiction / system / setting

[woven flint]

Weezard

[lean wigeon]

strange would be closer to a warlock no? he gets his powers from the vishanti

[umbral girder]

Nope

[cerulean monolith]

Ehh, he's a Warlock/Monk multiclass imo

[umbral girder]

He gets a few spells from other entities but everything else is a lot of hard study

[naive cedar]

in older dnd systems I think mage was used as a catch all term for arcane magic users

[old sluice]

Gandalf, Odin, Bellegar, Starscourge Radahn, Elden Lord Radagon...

[umbral girder]

Bro put Gandalf and Odin under “wise”

[timid current]

he gets power froma variety of sources, including the vishanti, but also his own studies

[naive cedar]

is Gandalf not wise?

[old sluice]

Gandalf might have a drug problem but after his resurrection and promotion he got better at decision-making!

[timid current]

depends on if you read the material or are memeing

[old sluice]

And what about Odin?

[timid current]

odin literally gained capital W wisdom after hanging on the tree

his wisdom is irrefutable inside the mythology.

[lean wigeon]

magic-user

[timid current]

if you're being pedantic about your personal interpretation of things in the mythology or comic books then whatever. but inside the context of mythology he is wise

[old sluice]

Other wise wizards let's see... Merlin? Depending on the book.

[naive cedar]

honestly most of the “wizard” characters I like arent particularly wise

[old sluice]

Darth Plagueis! Wise! And a wizard, kind of

[woven flint]

Ice King is clearly the best wizard in fiction

[old sluice]

Yoda counts too!

[cerulean monolith]

The original classes were Fighting-Men, Magic-Users, and Clerics. In AD&D, these were expanded to Cleric (and its subclass Druid), Fighter (and its subclasses Paladin and Ranger), Magic-User (and its subclass Illusionist), Thief (and its subclass Assassin), and Monk.

[shut path]

i mean if we're talking wizards i feel obligated to bring up constantine

[old sluice]

In 3rd edition, it was mentioned that the term "mage" in-universe referred to any arcane spellcaster

[old sluice]

Not wise. Not wise at all. I read the comic book. The entire story is that he's an addict who destroys the lives of everyone around him through his constant self-destruction.

[shut path]

well yeah, but he's a wizard

[umbral girder]

Fun fact. In the D&D Next (playtest for 5e) there was no Wizard, Sorcerer, or Warlock class. Instead there was a Mage class and those were subclasses.

[timid current]

the wise can be selfish

[cerulean monolith]

Also, people really aren't joking when they bring up Gygax's over-verbosity. Here is a real quote from the first D&D book.

All non-human players are restricted in some aspects and gifted in others. This will be dealt with in the paragraphs pertaining to each non-human type.

[woven flint]

Constantine gives me more Warlock vibes.
His soul literally in a pact with THREE demons (although he doesn't get his magic from them)
He learns magic, though, so I'd say hes MAYBE a wizard warlock multiclass

[cerulean monolith]

A pact alone does not a warlock make

[umbral girder]

Fun fact making a deal with a higher being doesn’t immediately make you a warlock

[shut path]

i mean zatanna is a wizard 100% zatara her dad is like a wizard/warlock when he's doctor fate

[woven flint]

Yoda?! Is that you

[umbral girder]

There are even rules in 5e to make deals with devils for exchange after all

[old sluice]

He got no powers from the pact. The pact was just a scam to avoid dying of lung cancer

[shut path]

if i trade my second born son to a fae for a bunch of gold, im not a warlock im just a bad father

[cerulean monolith]

the __ does not a __ make phrasing predates yoda by years

[woven flint]

The real answer is Constantine is actually a Bard

[cerulean monolith]

A lot more than years, actually. Aristotle, iirc

[shut path]

genius

[old sluice]

Or an awesome one! Some kids would have loved to be raised by fey

[shut path]

just because my kid wants to be raised by mr t doesn't make me any better of a father if i sell him to mr t

[cobalt owl]

Is this what we call joint custody?

[cerulean monolith]

one swallow does not a spring make, nor one fine day; similarly one day or brief time of happiness does not make a person entirely happy
Translated from Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics

[woven flint]

Interesting, thank you for the enlightening, Sam :0

[rough dove]

excuse you, as a warlock i strongly take offence. /silly

[old sluice]

When was that translation made? Because if it was made after Empire Strikes Back, it's a problem

[shut path]

unrelated note i'd totally sell my kid to mr t /j

[rich pier]

Well this sale was kinda trash

[shut path]

i dont want to get on the bad side of the guy from rocky 3

[cerulean monolith]

~1920 was when that word order began to be used (either in an attempt to mimic Lovelace or to pay homage to ancient greek sentence structure)

But everybody knows George Lucas is a time traveller so... can't be too sure

[umbral girder]

Sounds like a time traveller trying to make excuses /jk

[cerulean monolith]

Lol, OD&D lists "Imagination", "1 Patient Referee", and "Players" as "Recommended Equipment".

[minor lake]

facts

bro in middle school we were playing junkyard dnd i dont even know what to call it
one d20, a sheet of paper, a monster. if u roll high enough u hit well. if not, u failed

[cerulean monolith]

Only recommended, though, so it seems Gygax prepared for the possibility of DMless systems

[timid current]

even back then, people knew you needed actual creativity instead of things like AI

[minor lake]

couldn't people play AD&D by themselves?

[cerulean monolith]

AD&D, I don't know. OD&D, I don't think so

[minor lake]

bc the grid was there in the book
i guess you could play 5e by yourself

[timid current]

they could be a patient referee

[buoyant oar]

Early DnD even mentioned fit for 5-50 players

[minor lake]

50 players?!?!

[buoyant oar]

West Marches and Living Campaign style of play have been around since the beginning

[shut path]

now how does that work i wonder

[buoyant oar]

same way Critical Role Campaign 4 works.

[minor cargo]

Your D&D group should only ever be the size of the polycule you can manage. 🙂‍↕️

[crimson gulch]

Lol

[buoyant oar]

Damn I am over extending then. Can handle 1. Have 33 players.

[crimson gulch]

Can't say I'm a fan of that style, having to worry about someone not at the table when running the game is to much

[cerulean monolith]

OD&D prescribed up to 20 per DM, but it didn't preclude the possibility of multiple DMs at one game.

[buoyant oar]

That is how we do it. Our Living Campaign has 4 full time DMs

[timid current]

I think we need to remember that a bunch of early D&D was throwing spaghetti at the wall and trying to spell out poetry with the noodles

[crimson gulch]

I don't think the spagetti stopped

[woeful stirrup]

anyone know where i can find some non phb personality/ideal/flaw's (i like having a sample list to edit to my own needs)

[atomic kayak]

That doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about polycules to dispute it

[timid current]

there wasn't decades of experience, cultural and shared to provide backing for these things

[cerulean monolith]

Oh yes, there was definitely a lot of refining needed, and that refining was done mostly during AD&D. The AD&D PHB is around the same size as all of the core rulebooks for OD&D combined.

[timid current]

like, gygax legitimately thought people would enjoy misogynistic gameplay

[buoyant oar]

Living Campaigns and West Marches, are mentioned in the most recent DMG so its clearly still a popular and active style to play.

[woeful stirrup]

gary gygax has several characters that are just word scrambles of his own name

[timid current]

so I mean let's not treat OD&D as some sacred thing haha

there's a ton of bad in there both mechanically and otherwise

[old sluice]

Depending on the size and location of your D&D polycule, you may need a dermatologist.

[buoyant oar]

Same with any edition including 5th

[cerulean monolith]

The core rulebooks for OD&D are altogether 112 pages, and the AD&D PHB is 130. Yup.

[naive cedar]

dnd has had some…interesting mechanics over the years. remember comeliness lol

[timid current]

mhm

[cerulean monolith]

In OD&D, humans couldn't be fighters.

[old sluice]

To be fair: Less art.

[minor cargo]

This is what they say when they say min max. Minimizing not being in polycule. Maximize being in a polycule. Pretty sure that's like Chapter 1 of DMG 2024.

[timid current]

not much less. just much less paid for good art

there's a ton of (charming) bad art

[old sluice]

I mean in the sense that less space is given for style in those old books

Information is all rather compact.

[buoyant oar]

most of a lot of OD&D art was straight up comic tracings.

[cerulean monolith]

True. There wasn't much art in the OD&D books. I think there was a less-than-clothed stickfigure lady in Men and Magic

[old sluice]

Naked is not a bad word

[cerulean monolith]

I agree, but I couldn't remember if it was considered one by the server's filter so I erred on the side of caution

[naive cedar]

the old monster manual art is something

[buoyant oar]

The Naked Lady has been censored by WOTC in reprints. When they reprinted it for the 40th anniversary and the DMsGUILD release I believe.

[crimson gulch]

I'm gonna run a 1e adnd campaign in the new year, it's gonna be wild

[buoyant oar]

1 and 2e are so much fun

[woeful stirrup]

im scared of THAC0

[timid current]

thac0 isn't too bad

[crimson gulch]

That's fine 1e Dident have thaco yet

[timid current]

but early editions are so low-mechanic that you might as well just make the move fully to a more narrative system anyways

[naive cedar]

also from what I understand the majority of the art in the very old dnd books was basically just drawn by fans and whoever wanted to do it. Idk if any of them were traced but it wouldn’t surprise me

[crimson gulch]

Nah, I don't bother with other systems, I gave daggerheart a good shot and finished a campaign but jt just wanted me to play more dnd

[buoyant oar]

Many OD&D art was traced from comics.

[timid current]

it is definitely good to know what you like

[cerulean monolith]

Isn't THAC0 just subtractive attacking?

[crimson gulch]

Thaco is a single number that tells you what you need to roll to hit ac 0.

1e had attack the attack matrix

[buoyant oar]

Golf Rules on AC. Lower is better

[tame kelp]

Is it okay to build a character with the most simple backstory like...

"I just graduated from blah-blah school, before I meet you all in tavern"

[timid current]

yep

[crimson gulch]

Yes

[timid current]

talk to your table to see what kinds of expectations everyone has and try to work with each other so everyone has a good time

[tame kelp]

and we all know most characters met each other for the first time in TAVERN

ironically tho.

[crimson gulch]

You find who you are on the journy not before

[cerulean monolith]

Yes, BUT some tables have different expectations. And if you write that, don't expect your backstory to be included in the campaign in any way.

[buoyant oar]

In media res openers are my bread and butter. First words of the campaign are Roll Initiative.

[woeful stirrup]

im gonna repeat this but anyone know where i can find some non phb personality/ideal/flaw's im working on npcs and the phb ones are more hero focused rather than civilian focused

[crimson gulch]

I generally don't use player backstoies at all

[tame kelp]

heheh.. I'm not good at making story either.

[cerulean monolith]

write them yourself

It's your character, not the template's

[woeful stirrup]

thats the plan yes. but i like having templates so i can modify them if needed

[timid current]

might be some on gmbinder

[pine silo]

dnd cool :)

[woeful stirrup]

especially when you are making 10 npcs for a mystery quest

[woven flint]

Big agree, D&D be very fun n cool

[marble lion]

Nice

[meager fractal]

The gods judge our action. And our inaction

[marble lion]

Imagine judging a mortal when you have no clue what it's like

Toxic red flag

[scenic zinc]

Just because they are a god doesn't make them not mortal.

Plenty of gods have canonically died in d&d.

[marble lion]

Oh true

[void pasture]

Hi im new

[scenic zinc]

Hi new, I'm azerick.

[lavish flame]

The Dungeon Master's Guide has a whole NPC section, use that

[void pasture]

Lol niceee

[glass granite]

Hey that’s my line

[scenic zinc]

Civilian ideal and flaw idea:

Ideal:

• I think that everyone in town should get along.

Flaw:

• I refuse to vote for town Mayor because I don't think my voice matters

[void pasture]

soooo when Can I play Dnd?

[scenic zinc]

Just think of any ideal or any flaw that any person might have. The things in the books are just a starting place - they're not a list you need to pick from.

[scenic zinc]

You gotta punch vecna in the face to earn the dice

-# /s

[bronze wave]

In theory the next 1 minute

[void pasture]

Nice theoryyy

[lavish flame]

whenever you can find a group. we have a #find-a-game to help out with that

[void pasture]

Oki thanks!

[scenic zinc]

If the multiverse exists, at least one of them probably had this happen in it.

[void pasture]

Im probably good at it in some multiverses but Im here in front of my laptop wanting to play dnd XD

[young blade]

Anyone know an actual play that is doing a faerun setting campaign? Id love to follow a long scale one, want to do one myself but my dnd group is on hiatus until January lmao

[scenic zinc]

Most APs do homebrew settings

[glass granite]

AP?

[scenic zinc]

Actual Plays

Critical Role, Dimension 20, etc.

[young blade]

Ah, I know but I wanted tk see if anyone started one with the new faerun books. Guess not lol

[scenic zinc]

It's highly unlikely that any actual play would have adapted such new content already into a campaign.

Plausibly an obscure one has done a one shot

[void pasture]

Is it like im going into a voice chat and open cam and stuff and playing Dnd?

[scenic zinc]

That's how the lower budget ones do it, yes

[void pasture]

I got lower budget

[scenic zinc]

That isn't to say that it's cheap or easy. Lower is just lower, not low.

[void pasture]

dang I thought its gonna be free

I've been watching LegendsofAvantris it is so intertaining I loved it!

[lavish flame]

online? mostly yeah. I play using Discord to speak and Roll20 (a website) to do a virtual table to play on. We don't use cameras, but we do use voice chats.

[void pasture]

whoaaa Niceee

[marble lion]

Playing dnd is free, owning the books isnt

There are even free official releases that are enough to play

Add some homebrew and you can do anything you want

Not to mention people are allowed to share the game stuff

[limber trail]

I played DnD for years without paying a dime

[toxic carbon]

Hi, is there anyone from tucson, az here?, i need to find a shop that sells dices at a reasonable price, they're not for me tho, they're 4 my dm bc of his bday, is there any shop that sells dice?

[sudden elm]

Is there any dnd groups in here that accept new players I've played once online through a campaign and am in middle of a campaign in person but still have alot to learn

[humble cairn]

PBIF (Personality, Bonds, Ideals, Flaws) is kind of meant to be write-your-own anyway?

[glass granite]

There are many beginner friendly games here, I believe. Check out #find-a-game for some information on how to look for games.

[lyric idol]

So...Mobile Bastions.

[humble cairn]

It's something a lot of gruops have been homebrewing in anyway. Lemme look over the mechanics a moment ..

Ahh yeah that seems reasonable.

[jagged vigil]

My party's Moon Bard just bought a Faerie Dragon and a Flumph at a Grand Menagerie in Calimport! Stoked for these new party critters

[old sluice]

Like a ship?

[timid anvil]

Ships, Airships and in Eberron even Lightning Trains

I am pretty sure you could also turn a Spelljammer into a mobile bastion that way

[stark arch]

can Alter Self be used to change to differend gender ?

wonder if it can be used to seduce some one with it

[still plover]

As always, check the spell description in full first.

In general, yes, if a character takes care to tailor their approach to a target they might well get advantage on a social check.

[knotty pasture]

"You decide what you look like, including your height, weight, facial features, sound of your voice, hair length, coloration, and distinguishing characteristics..."

So if you change yourself to have feminine features, have a feminine voice, long pink hair that screams femininity...

[fiery nimbus]

I mean, so long you are changing your appearance, this spell can do it

[blissful dragon]

not long term with that spell but it has been mentioned in i think at least two wotc associated books that magic to allow one to change one's gender does exist

[limber trail]

At least something like true polymorph can

[blissful dragon]

Minc and boo Journal of villainy mention that someone offers such magic

thinking about it if a dm want maybe alter self could work if cast as a more circle magic spell

[fiery nimbus]

they used too but were considered cursed items
tbh if they just removed the cursed part, they would be perfect

[blissful dragon]

not that i was taking about a npc that stated to have used magic to change their gender and a something a organisation inmincs and boo's journal of villiany is mentioned to be able to do

[fiery nimbus]

well yea but there is no player option to do so

it's not like DM couldn't make a NPC like that happen with or without this book

[blissful dragon]

just remembered their is the cirlet of x perfection that lets you take on the apperance of the your chooseing of that species

including gender , height and such

[cloud grove]

Do dragonborne's naturally know draconic? making my character sheet on dnd beyond it says i still have to select it

[idle oar]

Your background determines your languages

But usually a background origin lets you pick up to two languages

[jaunty agate]

Hi guys

Who heres has dndbeyond and already has access to eberron early acess book?

Can you check one thing for me? Do you have access to the book on the android app. For some reason i cant acess the book on the app just on the website

[cloud grove]

The only one that lets me pick up another language is 2014 noble

[finite whale]

I just started watching campaign 4 of critical role. I did not know Sam can be that scary when he shouts lol

[toxic wigeon]

Apologies for intruding but can somebody help in making a post in #looking-for-players

[limber trail]

Sam is very cool in the new campaign

I’ve been enjoying his character

[reef tundra]

Sam is peak

[finite whale]

Ooo okay

[reef tundra]

#find-a-game gives you instructions on how

[cinder condor]

Guys what should i even do in the server ?

[glass granite]

Chat
Ask for help
Make friends
Find a game
Help others

[reef tundra]

I'm just here for the conversation and cooperation

[noble basin]

The server is primarily for discussing dnd topics or finding games

[cinder condor]

Oh btw i sent a doc of my character could anyone take a look

[toxic wigeon]

Ah no, actually I need someone to make a post for me because I already made a post this week, but that was for a campaign and this is for a one shot

Sorry

[reef tundra]

No problem

[idle oar]

That is not allowed. Use the thread attached to your post to provide updates.

[toxic wigeon]

Um, okay, but this is a different game and that was a different one?

Sure I won't do something like that

[idle oar]

If you have someone else post a game for you you risk that person and yourself loosing access to our LFG channels

[toxic wigeon]

Okay okay, I'll keep that in mind

[idle oar]

Post in your thread that you have another game available

[toxic wigeon]

Wait, you have a looking for DMs channel, I'll look there, see you later

[idle oar]

That’s okay

Yes - you can find players through the #looking-for-dm channel

[reef tundra]

So... banishing smite is pretty weird, eh?

[idle oar]

Could be. Could be.

[glass granite]

It is? It’s a, well, banishing smite

[reef tundra]

I thought it was meant to be a finishing move, since it required the target to be under 50 HP, but turns out it works differently from regular banishment and always returns the target

[marble lion]

Which means the entire party can hold a move upon their reappearance

[stable solar]

Quick question, how do you reasonably get a bunch of enemies to gang up on you?

[reef tundra]

Good point

[reef tundra]

Jump in the middle of them

[stable solar]

What if they run away or are spread out

[marble lion]

Also considering they are paralysed while in their home plane, if alien to prime, they might get killed

[marble lion]

Its pretty hard to taunt enemies that are already fleeing

[stable solar]

There arent any aoe taunt spells are there...

[marble lion]

Taunt doesnt exist in dnd

[stable solar]

I mean compelled duel is the closest to taunt that we can get

[marble lion]

The taunts in dnd work differently

Yeah instead of forcing them to attack, dnd taunts just make them worse at attacking others

That can lead to them focussing you but doesnt have to

Dm discretion is needed there, just like with charisma checks

[stable solar]

Im really struggling with finding opportunities to use aoe melee attacks and I want to

[marble lion]

Unironically tell your dm

[stable solar]

That would trivialize encounters i feel like...

[marble lion]

These kinds of things partially depend on the dms setup, just like sneaking rogues or charm person

I dm and i change how fights flow depending on the party to make it fun

Otherwise some features would never see use tbh

And i dont think most dms can create a game that is fun for all builds classes and people at once

But they can make one thats fun for the ones in their game

If a rogue joins the game, ill put more thought into ambush spots

[limber trail]

This is a case where, sometimes as a player you can roleplay how you get into their middle and do a big cry or insult or something and maybe ask for a performance or intimidation or whatever check to convince the enemies to focus you down. But that's a looser application of the rules subject to your DM.

[marble lion]

I would still recommend sharing your fantasy or vision for this character with the dm

May sound cheesy and artificial but dms are already tailoring the game to be whst they think you enjoy

They just sometimes get it wrong. Help them

[limber trail]

Genuinely, as a DM, if anyone asks me for help accomplishing something it means I can better prepare for that

The party has a problem solving task ahead of them this week. One player talked with me about how they might go about solving that problem. It has helped my prep immensely knowing a likely direction we might follow

[stable solar]

Good to know

[limber trail]

It helps in every sense. You wanna get a gift for a fellow player? Awesome, let's talk about your ideas and I'll work in a moment.

Please talk to your DMs ppl ;-;

[red steppe]

Im scared of it being cursed or monkey paw'd :c

[marble lion]

Bad dm

A good dm doesnt use the players shared vision to mess them up and gotcha them

And if they do, its a temporary gotcha followed by a reward that follows the wishes

[limber trail]

I was writing a much more diplomatic statement but yeah It's a pretty bad DM that sees you get excited for the game and come up with and idea and plans how to disrupt that excitement or to undercut it

[marble lion]

What you tell your dm out of character should never be used to trump you

[limber trail]

I'll say, any idea my players have for me, that idea might have challenges associated. But those challenges will be appropriate, and will be rewarded

For me at least, what my players tell me out of character I'll 100% think about ways to use where it's fitting, but usually more in the service of further enriching the player experience, not undercutting it.

It's not, "My player wants to do this, how can I prevent it", and is instead more, "My player wants to do this, how can I make this challenging and fun to accomplish."

[shell whale]

Been a hot minute since I've been using D&D beyond as I've been on the campaign off season, but is it me or is the website being slower than I remember for anyone else? It feels like sometimes the pages take an age to load or seem to break entirely. I know it's not my own internet as well

[still plover]

"In our game I'm looking forward to..." should usually be taken at face value.

When I ask for feedback, I want to know what was fun, what wasn't and what my players are eager to experience next.

[still plover]

#ddb-support might know if there's something up with it.

[livid parrot]

What’s a good second feat for a str, low int eldritch knight? I took GWM, use a great sword, spells are all utility/defensive. 2024 rules

[thick canopy]

what happens if 2 advanturing parties meet each ohter and DM says they should fight

[idle oar]

I would personally think that is a bit of a red flag and I'd ask if we could pause the game to discuss expectations.

D&D wasn't designed for player character vs player character fighting

[reef tundra]

A low int eldritch knight is not a good idea

Although, I suppose if it's all utility or defence spells it don't be too bad

[shy stirrup]

You and your fellow PC adventurers vs. a party of adventurer NPCs?

[reef tundra]

If you're not optimising with any of the spells, just pick feats you would for a regular fighter, like great weapon master

[thick canopy]

you play with 2 parties ad diffrent times then for 1 game you invite bhote parties for the same time and tell them to fight the ohter party

[oak grotto]

Fun fact, because DnD wasn't made with pvp battles in mind fighting other players can end with anticlimactic and short battles.

[livid parrot]

Yeah I was going to go battlemaster but the DM lets martial classes use 3 maneuvers, so it was EK or champion for me and I thought EK would be fun lol

[limber trail]

PvP in DnD sucks, I've done a few PvP fights and all of them have ended in a stalemate with both sides agreeing to give up.

[reef tundra]

Oh sweet, all Martials get 3 manoeuvres? Cool. Yeah, maybe EK was a good choice

[limber trail]

I would probably take something like fey touched and pick up misty step + something like hunter's mark or hex, while increasing your int.

[fossil summit]

In my book, that's 100% using the influence action.

[still plover]

Or a question of positioning. Find a point you can block with your self and your weapon range, be there. Make yourself an obstacle.

[stoic obsidian]

Hunters mark is better

Tbh I don’t how hex causing disadvantage on saving throws to be useful

Maybe for minor illusion

[crimson gulch]

Giving an enemy disadvantage on saves isngreat

[humble cairn]

Hex does not give Disadv on Saves.

It's only on Ability Checks.

[crimson gulch]

There was an invocation or a subclasses feature that made it effect saves too I thought

[humble cairn]

Ahh yes I believe that's Great Old One.

Level 10 feature, Eldritch Hex.

[crimson gulch]

That's the one, it's come up a bunch

[humble cairn]

GOOlocks are popular in your games?

[crimson gulch]

I have had 6 over the last few years, I get a lot of warlocks

Celestial is a bit more popular with 2024, and genie comes up alot too

Feind and fey have been the least popular

[limber trail]

I'm surprised there's not more Fey players after the 2024 drop, I always thought it looked like the coolest 2024 Warlock subclass.

[humble cairn]

Teleportation does seem very fun. Archfey, Shadow Monk, and Cartographer seem fun for that reason.

[crimson gulch]

Have yet to have a warlock take fey in 2024. Let's see in my active games I have 2 celestial warlocks across My 7 campaigns right now.

Only ever had one in my toa hardcore game

[delicate owl]

Poor Fiendlock

Just.. so basic and now not very consisent, especially with the hurl through hell feature being reliant on making a save.

[eager marsh]

The feature most games don't reach certainly isn't the main reason for the subclass being underused

[edgy kelp]

Hi! Does anyone know what would be the best subclass for a greatsword paladin in dnd 2024 ?

[knotty pasture]

Think it may be a bit too cliche is all

Signing a contract with demonkind for more power is as tropey as it gets

[humble cairn]

Any of them would work.

[eager marsh]

the lv3 and lv6 features are also distinctly less flashy or mechanically satisfying than what all the other subclasses in 2024 offer atm

[edgy kelp]

Yeah, I know but I am really struggling to choose between the oath of vangance and devotion.

[humble cairn]

Are you using 2014 or 2024 rules?

[edgy kelp]

2024

[humble cairn]

And do you care about the theme of the Oaths?

Because those two have very different default themes.

[edgy kelp]

I know and I like both of them equaly. I just want to know which one would work better ?

[humble cairn]

It doesn't make a difference, honestly.

[knotty pasture]

Vengeance is very fun

[humble cairn]

All you want is to be effective with a great sword? They're both effective with a great sword.

[warped cipher]

How could I scam a lot of peasants for their money at once in my game?

[edgy kelp]

My character is in a situation where he can choose either but I have heard that vangance is better overall. Im not sure if its good with a greatsword tho ?

[humble cairn]

I dunno, but why bother?

[edgy kelp]

Aha thanks so it realy doesnt metter right ?

[humble cairn]

Honestly no. What do you even mean by "better" anyway? Are you only concerned with damage?

[knotty pasture]

A mix of sleight of hand, performance, deception, intimidation checks...

Only if the DM allows it of course

[humble cairn]

Vengeance gets access to Hunter's Mark, which can be a decent damage multiplier, but only really shines when you get a lot of attacks, which would kind of push you in the direction of being a dual wielder.

[edgy kelp]

Combat in general I guess. But i do like big number tbh

[warped cipher]

Just to screw with people?

[humble cairn]

Doesn't seem like fun to me, but as long as your group and table don't mind when you ask them if that's okay, more power to you.

[humble cairn]

Devotion gets an accuracy bonus, which does help increase your overall damage, but not as dramatically as it used to in the 2014 environment when Great Weapon Master worked differently.

[edgy kelp]

Does that mean that if i dont plan on duel wielding it would be better to pick devotion ?

[reef tundra]

I do find it amusing when people say “better” about a dnd class or subclass without explaining what it is better at. “Better at combat” can be many things, better at damage, better at area control, better at tanking. All classes are the best and worst at things

[crimson gulch]

Vengeance has more offense, devotion has more defence

[humble cairn]

No, not really. I think both would still basically be about equal just in different ways. Vengeance certainly lends itself to being more aggressive than Devotion.

[shy stirrup]

better = i like it more

[rough basalt]

Devotions also better for consistent decent damage

[humble cairn]

But both Vengeance and Devotion are equally good at combat, imo.

[rough basalt]

Whereas Vengeance lends itself to big booms

[reef tundra]

Exactly. Almost every time someone says “best” or “better” and using similar objective words, they almost always mean it as their subjective opinion

[knotty pasture]

Devotion has more team support and is just adding onto Paladin's base kit

Vengeance double downs on offense at the cost of team utility

[humble cairn]

Vengeance also tends to lock onto one target, while Devotion can choose targets more easily.

[reef tundra]

Devotion is definitely more defensive based, especially when you look at the spells they gain

[knotty pasture]

But what is combat if not destroying the enemy asap

[humble cairn]

Defense is also part of combat.

[reef tundra]

You also have to balance the fact that your enemy is doing the same thing

It’s about balancing the damage you’re doing while still making sure to minimise the damage you’re taking

[knotty pasture]

A race that Venge Paladin has decent odds in winning

[rough basalt]

Enemy ain't always gonna be alone

[humble cairn]

If you want to play the shining knight that protects their allies while smiting enemies, play Devotion. If you want to be the implacable avenger hunting down evil, play Vengeance.

[reef tundra]

As an oath of vengeance main, they are excellent at locking onto one enemy and taking opponents down one by one. You need your allies to help control the space and keep you alive so you can do that

[rough basalt]

'24 did a good job of giving vengeance a tad bit of team help

By giving relentless avenger the sentinel feature

[reef tundra]

I’ve also played my fair share of devotion paladin, and they are excellent at keeping allies alive, especially with the mix of cure wounds as an action and lay on hands as a bonus action

It was the devotion subclass that led to my “paladin super tank” build in one campaign

[rough basalt]

My most fun paladin was devotion

[humble cairn]

I've only played Glory but dang was he fun!

[rough basalt]

Rode a horse using a Lance with a Cloak of Billowing for aura farming.

[woven flint]

Centaur Pally

Divine striking with hooves

Funny

[red steppe]

How vengeful does a Vengeance Paladin need to be

[reef tundra]

I do love glory

[humble cairn]

Customizable

[knotty pasture]

Yknow since Devotion super tank was brought up, why not Crown at that point

[scenic zinc]

Fixing Glory's aura in '24 was great

[knotty pasture]

Devotion's right at the middle which has its appeals though

[rough basalt]

My last vengeance pally was a girl afraid of the dark who double critted and instakilled another PC

[reef tundra]

Presumably a lot since they’re so sworn to it that they literally gained power from it. But yes, it can vary

[reef tundra]

Dayum

[knotty pasture]

Its not really vengeance literally, part of Vengeance Paladin is to sacrifice some personal morals at the cost of defeating an enemy

[woven flint]

I had a Golden Dragonborn Glory Paladin named Xarroth, he had a 1v1 with a fellow Glory Paladin and it was glorious, it was a fight to the death, but there was an air of respect between then

[knotty pasture]

They're the type of person who'd risk their lives to go down with the enemy at any cost

[rough basalt]

A good example of a Vengeance Paladin would probably be Frank Castle

Killing an innocent person is his worst nightmare, but killing bad people is his best dream

[woven flint]

Punisher moment

[scenic zinc]

It is literal if that player wants it to be. It's a combined narrative and mechanic feature of that class.

[knotty pasture]

With how intense Vengeance is though, you can get away with some morally questionable decisions more than other Paladins without oath breaking

[scenic zinc]

Each oath is personalized.

[reef tundra]

My last vengeance paladin was rather vague with her vengeance, the thing she swore vengeance on was society in general

[rough basalt]

Mine was traumatized by a Dragon attack and wanted vengeance against said dragon

[scenic zinc]

The tenets in the book are just examples, they're not prescriptive.

[reef tundra]

For casting her out, allowing her and so many children like her to die, simply over what she is

[edgy kelp]

We live in a society

[rough basalt]

And she had a particular bone to pick against people who terrorized others

[reef tundra]

She has been hit with the joker allegations many times. And I can’t deny them

[knotty pasture]

Mines had a complicated relationship with the Shadowfell, still ironing that out

[woven flint]

My last vengeance Paladin was a Goliath fellow and he was level 20

Had a full on air fight with a dragon and it was glorious

[reef tundra]

Metal af

[rough basalt]

If Rowan dies I might play another Pally

[reef tundra]

Gotta love the Shadowfell influence

[scenic zinc]

Does he use a hammer?

[rough basalt]

Idk what weapon I'll use

[scenic zinc]

-# the only right answer to that is yes

[woven flint]

Imagine a level 20 Centaur Vengeance Paladin if you will..
A Pegasus of Revenge 👀
(Since they can do that flying thing)

[scenic zinc]

I'm making reference to Rowan from the Inheritance Cycle

[reef tundra]

Badass

[rough basalt]

Dunno what that is

Rowan is my Scion Rogue in my Tuesday game.

[scenic zinc]

The Eragon books

[rough basalt]

Ah I only watched the movie once

[scenic zinc]

Oh I thought they were the paladin

[rough basalt]

Nah I was talking about a replacement PC if they die

[knotty pasture]

At this point this character is an honorary Shadowfell influence thanks to a curse from a Wraith, but perhaps they could just swear vengeance on Shadowfell in general, but would it even make sense to use a power you hate...

[scenic zinc]

🤮 don't remind me of that abomination

[rough basalt]

Might play a Pally since we got people hogging all the fun classes /j

[humble cairn]

I want to make a very humble Vengeance Paladin with a brokedown nag of a steed. They take the "aid those harmed by injustice" as the highest priority and generally is just at tireless volunteer worker. Except when they observe tyrants abusing the people, whereupon they Hunter's Mark them and track them to their base to wreak vengeance upon them. They do it in secret, maintaining their menial worker facade, not looking for any reward.

[woven flint]

My Paladin died in the campaign Sora is in with his rogue..
Part of me is tempted to scrap the current idea and go new Artificer, but I must be strong!

[scenic zinc]

The only redeemable character/acting in that movie is Brom played by Jeremy Irons

[woven flint]

I already have the replacement character ready

[umbral girder]

Murder Tokii every session so he tries out new characters /jk

[edgy kelp]

I was going to play devotion since i like defense a bit more but imagining the spectral wings feature made me change my mind. Vengence it is thanks for the help

[knotty pasture]

The wings thing doesn't come until level 20

[scenic zinc]

Even though I'm on my 3rd character now in Ti's dragonlance game I have no intent on thinking of a next character unless #3 dies

[edgy kelp]

I know

[knotty pasture]

Though you can ask a teammate to cast fly on you to try it out

[livid parrot]

I’m sitting at 19 strength and 8 int so I feel like int unfortunately needs to stay ignored and my spells need to stay utility/defense.

I was thinking slasher, charger, etc to get that final +1 to str

[woven flint]

It's a level 20 feature, so, keep that in mind
(Though you could play an Aasimar or a Dragonborn for spectral wings until then)

[rough basalt]

I'm changing my character for Tis Friday game

Gonna play a Flail using War Cleric probably

[red steppe]

So i can be slightly, somewhat Vengeful to be Vengeance Paladin

[reef tundra]

Wait Sora is that Jester in your pfp

[rough basalt]

Yes

[limber trail]

omg its pirate jester

[reef tundra]

I only just noticed. Peak choice

[umbral girder]

It’s actually Tiamat /jk

[scenic zinc]

The vengeance can be toward an ideal or turned inward or flavored however you and your dm decide is appropriate for the table you're playing this character at.

[marble lion]

Have a cupcake

[rough basalt]

Looking forward to the far future when I can play a bladesinger

[reef tundra]

I pray that something like the cupcake scene both happens and never happens at my table

Leaning towards wanting it to happen

[reef tundra]

Blade singer and diviner are my only motivations to play wizard

[rough basalt]

Both my current games got wizards and reason I'm switching my one character is cause I didn't wanna step on toes so I made them kinda inept out of combat so it's not an option for me rn.

[humble cairn]

This is vague. If you want help making a character and their motivations we can workshop it over in #character-discussion

[rough basalt]

The real PvP in dnd is over who gets skill checks

[umbral girder]

Tbh Bladesinger is the one Wizard subclass I dislike.

[red steppe]

Who has initiative first*

[reef tundra]

I remember in a 2014 5e game, a fiend warlock in the party had their kill stolen by the bard, and both were low. So the warlock just non-lethally finished the bard off 😭

I am so happy about the 2024 change

[rough basalt]

Nice.
Stake your claim over Charisma checks warlocks

[reef tundra]

I quite liked the playful rivalry with the bard and warlock in the party

[rough basalt]

That's my one issue with how many Charisma classes there are

It makes Charisma skill checks a minefield of toe stepping

[reef tundra]

Yeah, everyone’s clamouring to be the face

[rough basalt]

Wisdom classes have it the easiest

They get the most important skill check that's often rolled by more than one and there's only one wisdom class a lot of people play

[red steppe]

Wisdom is first then CHA is second?

[rough basalt]

Ye most important checks that are also frequent are Perception and Persuasion usually

[red steppe]

I only wanted those for looting or finding out traps

[rough basalt]

But yeah wisdom classes have it made for skill checks

They generally don't have to worry about toestepping cause Clerics the only wis class that's played regularly and most Wis checks are ones multiple people can do

[humble cairn]

Rangers are a Wisdom class that also get Expertise.

[crimson gulch]

The player doing the thing rolls the check

[cobalt owl]

Ranger is also ranger

[rough basalt]

Yeah but people don't really play Ranger compared to other martials

[humble cairn]

I play a Ranger?

[cobalt owl]

Yippee

[crimson gulch]

Sometimes you get the barbarian pondering the orb and the wizard trying to pry the door open

[humble cairn]

And I do great with my Expertise Skills.

[cobalt owl]

Congratulations

[umbral girder]

I very frequently play rangers as well

[rough basalt]

That's my point

[umbral girder]

It’s about to become my most played class

[reef tundra]

Someone dissing Ranger again?

[rough basalt]

A WIS class doesn't have issues with skill check toestepping

[cobalt owl]

Nah not really

[reef tundra]

In that case it’s all good

[umbral girder]

Yeah Wisdom and Intelligence are tied as stats that have the most skills tied to one stat

[reef tundra]

Everyone can have their own opinions and I don’t mind people disliking Ranger

[rough basalt]

And most Wis skills are ones multiple people can roll as I stated.