#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 45 of 1

jagged apex
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dnd is like the dragonball franchise, there is not just 1 continuity, there are MULTIPLE continuities, each just as valid as the others

past orchid
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so comics written by different authors

jagged apex
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technically one's homebrew games in theory exist out there in the wider dnd multiverse, just for a number of reasons, meta or otherwise, they are not accounted for in published materials which is more like the default timeline for the most current edition decided upon by wizards of the coast or who ever else may own the license, the times things arguably get a bit more messy is with self-contained settings like eberron

lusty surge
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Ultimately the most important canon is whatever your DM and group finds most enjoyable in the moment.

jagged apex
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oldest listing in terms of editions where Elistraee is included, is 2e, so seems that prior to 2e, which from what i hear is when they largely started fleshing out dnd with ADND basically being getting the baseline/ground work for the ip/lore established, she did not exist in prior incarnations

agile merlin
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For that matter, were there Drow before AD&D? Like in the white box? Or was it just orcs goblins and ogres back then

jagged apex
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to my knowledge, they much like any enemy in the game were little than just monsters to fight, though i am not really that knowledgeable compared to others who may have actually played or lived through that edition of the game or have the sourcebooks for it available to them, so i could be wrong

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though i think since it was not dnd at the time, pre AD&D, which to my knowledge was known as chainmail, would be more so a question for #dnd-elder-editions

iron saffron
jagged apex
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not sure if there was even lore as we understand it if you were to go that far back, more so roles they were ment to fill

agile merlin
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One example of a change in primary canon could be mind flayers. It looks from their entry in the 2e monster manual that wholly psionic illithids are actually a rare subspecies that hated the big Dracula collars, with the majority being wizards only capable of the Mind Blast
There's also no mention of ceremorphosis, just that the tadpoles eventually mature into full illithids

lusty surge
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Yeah to me it more seemed like 'hey wouldn't it be cool if you could fight this thing from mythology or lord of the rings?' with a few of those 'things' being made up monsters.

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Less 'well this monster was made by this goddess for this reason'

jagged apex
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there is no real primary canon

agile merlin
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Default canon how about?

jagged apex
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there is published continuity, and then everything else that is more or less it's won, even within the same edition

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like currently in 5e we have the published continuity and stuff that has been deemed out dated and thus part of what is referred to as legacy content, basically, is there if you wish to use it, but the published continuity does not have any reason to keep the info from those in mind or intact going forward

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honestly, i feel published content is more appropriate as even the versions that wizards of the coast of established setting are their version and not necessarily the original or default

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cuz the core stuff that makes dnd what it is can be rather subjective, that is why homebrewing is basically baked into dnd's dna and why they never give every single possible detail and will leave some things vague or up to interpritation

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honestly the default of dnd is more so mechanics than lore, cuz just as an example, the one campaign i am in on the weekends has an entirely different cosmology and default of how things are compared to even the most setting agnostic published lore

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granted you can call it what you want as long as people know what you are talking about, i just believe that "published continuity" is the most accurate term for it

iron saffron
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Each edition kind of overwrite the previous editions' take. 4E dramatically did that and 5E reverted most of its changes.

agile merlin
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True

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In 2e, elves literally were biologically immortal; at around 7 centuries of age they just became compelled to journey to a distant land and vanished from the game world (because apparently they hadn't learned their lesson after printing halflings as Hobbits at first)

rough swift
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I have managed to confuse myself on the lore of dragonlance: shadow of the dragon queen

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According to the book, the Knights of Solamnia fall into 3 orders. The knights of the crown, the knights of the rose, and the knights of the sword. Each order is governed by a specific god. Such as Paladine, god of Justice and Mercy and rulers. Kiri-Jolith, god of righteous warfare. And Habbakuk, god of nature, loyalty, and the elements.
My question is why

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Why are the gods not matched up with their obvious symbols

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Paladine is lined up with the knights of the Rose.

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Habbakuk is lined up with the knights of the crown

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And Kiri-Jolith is actually lined up with the knights of the sword.

iron saffron
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Orders aren't the same as the gods.

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The gods were missing from Krynn for hundreds of years since the end of the Second Cataclym.

rough swift
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Sure, but these orders were inspired by gods.

iron saffron
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...and?

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Paladine's symbol is of a silver triangle
The Knights of Solamnia is that of a kingfisher

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They have patron deities but they're not knightly orders of those deities.

rough swift
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And why is the crown, a symbol of Paladine who was part of making it, not his symbol for the order? He’s the god of rulers in Kryn

iron saffron
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The gods didn't reappear until War of the Lances.

rough swift
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Okay

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And?

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Why’s it a rose?

iron saffron
rough swift
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I know

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I have the book in front of me

iron saffron
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Ask Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis

rough swift
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Why is it a rose

iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

modest badger
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There's not much to go on from what I can find.
In the Annotated Legends, Page 958, Hickman leaves this note:

I may have come up with these Orders, although I certainly do not remember doing so. I believe the Rose came from the War of the Roses, as well as being a symbol of passion. Because these are Orders of a knighthood, Sword and Crown seemed logical extensions. — TRH
Kingfisher is also another older knight symbol in the books.

It seems like the symbols are not at all based on the gods, but just names for the orders, and certain gods favour and patron certain orders

agile merlin
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I thought I knew a real life example of an order not necessarily being represented by the common symbol of a patron deity, but the symbol of like every chivalric order was a cross :p

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OK, there's the Order of the Band, obviously represented by a band

bold holly
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Does anyone here know anything about the Moonshae Isles? I just want to know if that location is more for like a sea based campaigns or what. I'm currently looking into it myself, I just figured I might as well ask while I'm researching.

crimson jackal
latent hollow
bold holly
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Don't worry I'm also new lol

crimson jackal
crimson jackal
latent hollow
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get attacked by pirates then get sent out of the sea by a storm that raised us into the air and sent us all (ships too!) on a jungle island that is infested with giant creatures??? crazy! lol

magic jackal
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the sea is based you're absolutely right

crimson jackal
crimson jackal
feral lintel
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Anyone got any info about what different lycanthropes exist?

magic jackal
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I am more of a deep forest or mountains kinda guy, but I love the sea

latent hollow
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makes sense. My dm has done it several times so it's pretty homebrew, ive also played in different games

crimson jackal
magic jackal
feral lintel
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Ah, thanks Tea~!

crimson jackal
crimson jackal
crimson jackal
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Oh btw yall i'm making a dragonborn pirate captain npc thing, what dragonborns are mostly found near sea sorta areas? or what would fit the captain father figure sorta vibe most?

iron saffron
feral lintel
crimson jackal
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ohh kk ty

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srry new here lol

crimson jackal
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also depends on what the story in campagian will be like, the players, etc etc

bold holly
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Yeah as I looked I saw that the islands weren't what I was looking for but however it is perfect for a treasure hunting campaign or an entire sea based one

agile merlin
crimson jackal
bold holly
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I saw that 4e had some books for them that would be a great source of info

grave blade
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Does anyone know if bahamut has his own type of angels the way that Tiamat has the abishai?

agile merlin
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I'd assume he prefers metallic dragon petitioners maybe?

spice hull
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Bahamut and angels? The guy is dragons all the way down

feral lintel
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Yeah, doesnt have those seven gold dragons with him?

agile merlin
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Yeah, polymorphed into swans while he's on the Prime

feral lintel
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I thought it was canaries

crude blaze
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Yeah, pretty sure Bahamut just has a handful of gold dragons disguised as canaries

feral lintel
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Exactly 7, iirc

magic jackal
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Those are the ones who follow him around, he has other servants too I'm sure.

grave blade
static trench
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Question: Humans in Damaran, Calishite, Turami, etc, as listed in dnd beyond, are not considered variant humans, correct? My pc's mother is a human and I want to make sure I have my facts straight

feral lintel
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They arent variants, just humans from other places

static trench
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Got it, that's what I thought

unkempt merlin
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Variant Human is a game mechanic, not a lore one

static trench
jagged apex
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i know human soul and dragon soul are different in nature, would a devil's contract hold sway is the human were to transform into a dragon in both body and soul?

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at least in general published material

iron saffron
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A human polymorphed to a dragon would still have a mortal human soul.

magic jackal
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I don't recall anything that changes the fundamental nature of a soul.

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Reincarnate possibly, but that's not really the soul changing so much as its destination after death.

meager lotus
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How common are silvered weapons in current Forgotten Realms lore? Would they be something that Lathendarian clerics hunting undead would have or are they super rare? Asking so I know whether or not my level 4 cleric of Lathander would have one from his time as part of an undead hunting party. He's being introduced to the campaign at level 4 as a replacement for another character.

magic jackal
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Not super rare. But ask your DM if you can have a silvered weapon.

meager lotus
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That's what I was thinking of doing. I'll do that, thanks for the info

deep shuttle
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I'm playing in my first game where we are actually doing stuff with official d&d cities and setting stuff. My character was enslaved, then forced to become a gladiator where he did astonishingly well.

Where in Faerun is a Colosseum or similar?

sterile breach
still swift
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are there any towns in Avernus? like settlements home to races like humans and what not

iron saffron
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Mortals don't last long in the Lower Planes.

jagged apex
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pretty sure most mortal races, especially humans, are not even native to avernus or the hells in general, the more likely situation i imagine would be the gate town to the hells, known in 5e as Ribcage, i could be wrong though

jagged apex
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which makes sense given the reasons you mentioned earlier, being a hellish war torn wasteland and all

still swift
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would it be lore friendly to create towns and cities that houses humans, dwarves and what not?

daring ibex
cinder folio
still swift
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ah, aight

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I'm not very active in this server so I didn't know about it lol

spiral jackal
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If i want to start learning about the Forgotten Realms lore, where should i start?

feral lintel
modest badger
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Probably best to look into what is relevant to what you need first.

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5e Sword Coast Adventure Guide has 5e lore for you and is a general over view of that area.
If you were looking up lore for an adventure, look up what comes up in that adventure.

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Much of FR lore doesn't deviate too much from Core lore, but big differences might be locations, dieties and such. So you can always find a location that looks interesting.

Highly recommend SCAG first as that tries to ease you in, where as the Wiki is a bit much with no real direction to where to look first.

spiral jackal
meager lotus
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Asking lore-wise, how dangerous are the seas that go up the Sword Coast? Would it be feasible for a level 4 party to sail from Orlumbor to Luskan or would they just be demolished by sea monsters or pirates?

jagged apex
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very dangerous, not just cuz of what lies with in the waters, but the coast themselves, there is a reason it is called the sword coast and not something like the pillow coast

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not to mention if they offend the goddess umberlee, they are likely to get sunk long before they reach shore if she has anything to say about it

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so while it could be done, they very much would have to be careful, go off corse for a moment and you are likely to crash into the sword like rocks that make up much of the cliffs along the sword coast

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honestly, the depending on how close they stick to land, the water is too shallow for major threats of the sea, and the biggest concern would maybe be from pirates, creatures flying over head, and as mentioned before the sharp cliffs

jagged apex
meager lotus
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Awesome, thanks for all that info

pure coral
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Are there any specific gods that sphinxes serve?
Trying to make a sphinx build for a leonin

cinder folio
# pure coral Are there any specific gods that sphinxes serve? Trying to make a sphinx build f...

"Androsphinxes were favored monsters of the elven deities Aerdrie Faenya and Solonor Thelandira, the dwarven god Vergadain, the Mulhorandi god Horus-Re, and the god Nobanion. They would sometimes send them as messengers to their followers."

"Gynosphinxes were favored monsters of the dwarven deities Dugmaren Brightmantle and Vergadain and the Mulhorandi goddess Isis, often acting as their divine servitors and being sent as messengers to their faithful."

pure coral
narrow axle
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what race would live the longest or just have a higher life span

feral lintel
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elves

narrow axle
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thank you

magic jackal
iron saffron
narrow axle
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just like in general, im making my character right now in the D&D beyond and some of the races dont directly show the age range

narrow axle
iron saffron
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Again, as Epic Level Tea asked, which setting? Some settings may not have elves. If it's a homebrew setting then ask your DM.

narrow axle
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oh my bad i was just figuring that info about species would be found easily here

iron saffron
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Each setting has different creatures.

narrow axle
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ohh okay thank you

narrow axle
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is there any lore on big high elf civilizations that i could use to create a backstory

iron saffron
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Which setting?

narrow axle
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how do the setting work

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sorry im a little new to this

iron saffron
narrow axle
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ok

agile merlin
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Yeah, I read that like, in Greyhawk, the shortest lived category of elf still lives for as many as 900 years

grizzled dune
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Can anyone help overview me on what lore we have for Primus, the god who presides over Mechanus? I love to put modrons in my games, and want to know more about their god.

feral lintel
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(Also, nice Speedwagon pfp)

grizzled dune
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thanks and thanks!

agile merlin
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It's basically the embodiment of law, and it hates variation and uncertainty which is why the strongest of its constructs are incapable of missing attacks
But it's not always infallible, as can be seen in its attempt to bring order to Limbo, but instead just created a race of chaotic world hopping conquerers

grizzled dune
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aaaaand thanks!

agile merlin
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:3

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Oh, and I'm pretty sure everything with any care for law or order is willing to lend Primus an ear and trust its judgments, be that heaven or hell

jagged apex
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well primus, normally, is more or less a being of pure law/order personified

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exception being when tenembrous murdered and impersonated him

agile merlin
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Tenembrous was Orcus, right?

jagged apex
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was the name he took during the time of his first death as a demon lord cuz his name had basically been erased and forbidden by his killer

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in short, yes

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primus is basically a sort of avatar or embodiment of the plane of mechanus, he thinks and acts according to pure law, order, and logic, but much like the gods, despite their great power, they are fallible just as much as mortals, in primus' case, this is more likely to probably be the result of a miscalculation or some of the data for lack of a better term he is making use of to inform these choices being inaccurate

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not really the place for that

feral lintel
jagged apex
ionic rivet
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This channel is for discussing official published D&D lore

jagged apex
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also, mechanus is just flat out not a place of perfect balance

grizzled dune
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Had a feeling something like that was going to happen

jagged apex
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to quote the quote on the forgotten realms wiki made by one of the natives of that plane "Mechanus is a place of rules. Law and process. Organization above all. The denizens of this place disagree on how order is to be maintained, but in the end we all serve its structure. Without structure, we are nothing."

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especially when factoring in the role of the Rilmani as of the 5e planescape books, which heavily deals with such details for the 5e continuity specifically

agile merlin
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Yeah, the wiki actually says Primus held emnity for the Baatezu now that I'm looking at it, so having a "lawful" stamp in front of your alignment won't automatically win Mechanus over

grizzled dune
agile merlin
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Planescape is badass

jagged apex
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mechanus is law and order without the bias or influence of morality or intent, hense being a cosmic plane of lawful neutral

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is presumably why life from or associated with that plane has this weird sort of pseudo organic machine appearance, as much like a machine, they think and act purely logically, at least as the norm, individuals can deviate but with extra planar beings is massively harder to cuz that alignment the plane represents is more or less a core part of what they are as an entity

agile merlin
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Yeah, most them aren't technically physical, are they? Like, a demon is just an essence that manifests into a certain shape, which is why you can imprison that essence into an artifact?

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Also why so many of them have such an easy time plane shifting, I imagine

jagged apex
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well, the planes are metaphysical in nature, thus the life there is basically the same

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in short, there is no difference between body and soul for such beings

agile merlin
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Whereas a denizen of the Prime Material can have a traumatic brain injury and have a complete change of personality
An outsider has to be changed inside and out, or else it doesn't change at all

jagged apex
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which is also why, as detailed in 5e planescape, they can more or less respawn on a plane that shares there alignment, granted it takes about 100 years, but in the grand scheme of the planes and the wider cosmos, short of the natural death of the multiverse, that is relatively little time

jagged apex
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which is honestly more of a case of their energies that make up their soul and thus the rest of their being, being slowly replaced with those of that plane

agile merlin
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Do you suppose that effects like Abyssal corruption, when applied to a mortal, are affecting their more metaphysical soul rather than any part of their body?

jagged apex
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eh, bit of both i'd imagine, likely would be a slightly different case to what is established to happen when one is exposed to demon ichor, but likely would influence your soul and morality at least a little, purely speculation on my part though

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cuz historically, the abyss kind of has elements of the far realm to it, which kind of go back to it's creation

agile merlin
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Yeah, it was created from the bones of a dead universe when Tharizrun traveled to the edge of reality or something, right?

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I guess the dual nature of physical creatures with quasi-immortal souls isn't exactly exhaustively detailed in the published lore

jagged apex
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and for lack of a better term, ate those gods and their portfolios, at least to my knowledge

agile merlin
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That's what dybbuk are? That's rad

jagged apex
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yeah, their 5e artwork can be a bit misleading as it shows them possessing a corpse

iron saffron
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Loumara have only appeared in 3E lore.

agile merlin
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The 3e art is nice, gross little jellyfish critters

jagged apex
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historically at least, they are these jellyfish like demons that puppet corpses like meat suits of sorts with most of if not all the power that comes with

jagged apex
agile merlin
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I suppose he means that the word Loumara isn't used in MMotM

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But they don't have a whole lot in common with any sort of Tanar'ri

jagged apex
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yeah, the wider term has not been used yet, which makes sense since they are an obscure class of demon and the only one those far to be documented and thus stated out in 5e has been the Dybbuk

agile merlin
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Even on the wiki and in 3e, there only looks to be four known versions

thorny hound
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are there druid giths?

jagged apex
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it's debatable if you were to ask me, but unless said they are not loumara or saying they are a different class of demon that is otherwise already established, i see no reason to believe them being loumara is outdated, since info from past editions is treated often as valid until contradicted by newer lore

agile merlin
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I doubt if they're common, since most gith live in the cosmos, though there could certainly be star druid gith?

jagged apex
thorny hound
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Circle of The Star Gith Druid

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taht sounds epic

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cheers lads

agile merlin
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I especially like the caligrosto loumara
Hexblade build inspiro >:3

jagged apex
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or at least they have a role similar to druids, known as a "githyanki xenomancer" detailed in "spelljammer: adventures in space" for dnd 5e

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is worth noting they have the druid tag and the druidcraft spell, so while i could be wrong, a githyanki xenomancer to me seems to be an equivilent to a druid for their people

thorny hound
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why Selune is Light and Twilight domain at the same time?

unkempt merlin
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Because they aren't mutually exclusive?

thorny hound
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hm how does that work

unkempt merlin
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What do you mean? They just aren't? No domains are. Not even Life and Death

thorny hound
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as in how does a diety "get a domain"

agile merlin
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It's not even like it's night domain. It's the dusk or even the dawn, a reminder in the midst of darkness that the morning sun vanquishes the horrible night

iron saffron
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They're assigned to it, born into it, or take/steal it.

sharp owl
agile merlin
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Isn't a portfolio more what the deities themselves are concerned with, anyway? Not to get too much into semantics

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Most of them have more than one, at least from time to time

iron saffron
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Domains are more of gameplay mechanic.
Gods have portfolios. Selune is the goddess of the moon, stars, navigation, non-evil lycanthropes, and wanderers.

sharp owl
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For example, Selune is associated with Light as a source of light in the literal and spiritual sense. But given that twilight is the transition from light into dark and vice versa, someone who spends their life working/living in the twilight might also prey to Selune, a deity of light, to guide them safely

iron saffron
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Selune's domains change between editions due to each edition having different domains.

agile merlin
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Also that

sharp owl
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Deities can also acquire domains as their worship changes

agile merlin
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Twilight probably fits her better, but that domain wasn't in the phb

sharp owl
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This is the lore channel, remember

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Let's keep things on lore please

iron saffron
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Selune's spheres/domains throughout the editions:
2E spheres: Animal, Astral, Combat, Divination, Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Summoning, Sun, Weather
3E domains: Chaos, Chastity, Good, Moon, Night, Protection, Travel
4E domains: Arcana, Change, Moon, Selûne
5E domains: Knowledge, Life, Twilight

agile merlin
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But yeah, gods aren't limited to just one portfolio, like Jergal had like ten that he was gonna divvy up to the Dark Three
And worshippers aren't limited to just one domain; a cleric of Vecna could be concerned with punishing the hubris of overconfident wizards like those who turned into Nothics, and be a trickery domain cleric. Or they can be an arcane domain or something, wishing to unravel the secrets that are the Spider King's bread and butter

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A cleric need not have an encyclopedic knowledge of what they revere; most of the priests who worshipped the Elementel Evil Eye had no idea they were serving an insane, omnicidal prisoner at the bottom of creation

thorny hound
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marvelous

iron saffron
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The more powerful the deity the more portfolios they would likely have.

agile merlin
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Mhm

jagged apex
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though some portfolios tend to seemingly offer more than others, usually the more encompassing they are such as more broad concepts such as light and darkness

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or in the case of the forgotten realms, to use mystra as an example, magic

agile merlin
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The wiki also lists magic as one of Corellon's portfolios, though it's more about the art of elven wizardry than managing the Weave itself

jagged apex
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as the gods gain a bit of power in some manner, forget the exact quantity compared to worship, when acts in the world occur that fall under their portfolio, at least that is how i understand it to have been and far as i know still is

agile merlin
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Then there's an elven god of hedonism and revelry, as opposed to Asmodeus being the god of untempered indulgence

soft silo
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What would be the best god for a cleric involved in illegal drug manufacturing and trade to worship

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I was thinking waukeen

iron saffron
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Which setting?

soft silo
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Current forgotten realms

drowsy wraith
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Shar maybe. She is of the night but hatred, lies, betrayal and seduction are also in her portfolio and drugs can twist people into doing all of those things when they normally wouldn't...

agile merlin
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Any power that takes joy in corrupting people, for that matter, makes a good contender

jagged apex
gloomy brook
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How is the Raven Queen viewed by the people of the Sword Coast, as a negative entity, or a positive one? Or perhaps too little is known of her, so she doesn't have any kind of reputation?

sharp owl
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It would vary from person to person, place to place

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She's a deity associated with death and transition and the natural balance of such things. Some might avoid invoking her name out of superstition, while those that tend to the dead would likely worship or at least show respect to her for the same reason. Say you're a grave digger, you'll probably say a little prayer to the Raven Queen at the start of your shift to protect you against your work rising from the grave as a zombie

crude blaze
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iirc she’s not even regarded as a deity in Forgotten Realms. I think their RQ is a near deific figure on par with the Lady of Pain.

sharp owl
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She's at the very least considered as a deity by the shadar kai

grim siren
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In at least Faerun, the Raven Queen would be mostly an obscure deity. One that a very small percentage of the population would even know about. Most people in the Sword Coast would not default to the Raven Queen for that kind of Worship.

More than likely they would go towards Kelemvor, Lord of the Dead. He is tough but fair as a God.

Those looking for the evil side of death to ward away from, well that would be Myrkul, the Lord of Death.

Those might sound the same portfolio but the key difference is Kelemvor holds dominion of the dead and judges them. Myrkul is the reaper. Who is responsible for the dying.

As for protection from the Undead. One would pray to either Kelemvor or Lathander, the Morning Lord

agile merlin
feral lintel
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Eladrin are the fey elves; the elves that stayed in the Feywild

iron saffron
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High elves referred to as "eladrin" was a 4E thing. I would ignore that because 5E did.

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4E changed a lot of things that 5E reverted/ignored.

agile merlin
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👌

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And I suppose celestial eladrin are long a thing of the past?

feral lintel
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Celestial eladrin?

iron saffron
feral lintel
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Oooh, interesting

agile merlin
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Cuz even in 4e, it seems like the titles of Arvandor eladrin were being given to fey eladrin instead

iron saffron
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"Eladrin" applies to a lot of different creatures depending on the edition. Elgate has a list because this is brought up at least once a month here.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eladrin

  • Fey eladrin, elven inhabitants of the Feywild
  • High elves, or "common" eladrin
  • Noble eladrin, powerful elf-like fey
  • Celestial eladrin, a race of elf-like celestials
agile merlin
#

Thanks

patent bolt
#

does anyone have some info on eladrin elfs? would be helpful

modest badger
#

As in the 5e playable eladrin that can change with the seasons?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

technically mainly 4, but the point is there is not one definitive kind

agile merlin
#

Going by "eladrin elf" maybe they mean 4e high elves?

modest badger
#

Closest to the celestial eladrin is a single line in the DMG talking about celestial elves in arborea (which in previous editions were celestial eladrin)

#

For 5e:

  • Humanoid (Elf) Eladrin (The playable Eladrin race)
  • Fey (Elf) Eladrin (MPMM NPC Eladrin)
  • **Celestial (Elf) Elves **(not actually referred to as Eladrin, but matches the description from previous editions of celestial elflike natives born on Arborea) (DMG p.60)

Arborea is home to many elves and elven deities. Elves born on this plane have the celestial type and are wild at heart, ready to battle evil in a heartbeat. Otherwise, they look and behave like normal elves.
-(DMG p.60)

So far 'Eladrin' from AD&D and 3.5 (Bralani, Course, Noviere, Shiere, Firre, Ghale and Tulani ) have yet to appear in 5e under those names.

agile merlin
#

Icic

orchid oxide
#

Do Kuo Toa get along with Sahuagin?

magic jackal
#

Kuo-Toa don't really get along well with anyone, although they may trade with peoples in their vicinity.

jagged apex
#

sahuagin don't really get along with anyone

#

they are shark people who's name literally means more or less "we who eat"

#

to my knowledge they don't really get along with any races, definitely sea elves, then again the kuo-toa are insane so idk

feral lintel
#

If they ever do, it would probably be enslavement

#

Do Kuotoa even live in the sea?

jagged apex
#

yes

#

they live mainly in the underdark

#

sahaguin, not so much, as they can't last beyond a limited time out of water

feral lintel
#

Ah ic ic. I do remember hearing somehwere that sahuagin hunted the sea kuotoa, but i doubt thats true

jagged apex
#

not to mention that sahaguin typically live in some of the deeper parts of the ocean

agile merlin
#

It's a bit strange that the ones with legs are the ones who can't survive on land for more than a few hours, but merrow, the ones who don't even have feet, can stay on land as long as they please

iron saffron
agile merlin
#

Oh yeah

#

Aquatic ogres who were substantially more intelligent, according to the statblocks

#

WotC done took their legs

iron saffron
#

Sea lions, seals, and walruses don't have legs but they can move on land.

feral lintel
#

I like the current Merrow

agile merlin
#

True, but I can't well imagine merrow being all that menacing dragging their bodies across the beach

feral lintel
#

I think theyre intimidating the same way a crawling zombie armed with a harpoon is

jagged apex
#

sahaguin basically are holding their breath for lack of a better term when the come onto land

agile merlin
#

Reverse crabs

#

I guess the limbs give them an edge when scaling ships, or when fighting sea elves that also have legs and hands

jagged apex
jagged apex
eager bay
#

Is Yggdrasil a literal, physical tree, or a cosmic force?

unkempt merlin
#

Both and neither

#

It's as much those things as the great wheel is a literal wheel

eager bay
#

Because if it's a physical object, it's easy to prove that out of the great wheel and the world tree cosmology, the second would be more accurate

#

But if it's a cosmic force, that's not nessicarily the case

feral lintel
#

The Great Wheel isnt 100% accurate either tho. And Yggdrassil can easily be whats in between the realms.

eager bay
#

Like, it would be more like wormholes that may look like a tree then a literal tree

feral lintel
#

It can be both and nothing at all. Both the Great Wheel and Yggrassil arent inherently correct, its just what people think works

eager bay
#

Like, there's a difference between something that works/looks like a tree, and a physically grown tree

feral lintel
#

Lets see if the Wiki has anything on it

eager bay
#

Okay

#

I get it now I think

jagged apex
#

the cosmology models are more so means of mortals trying to comprehend and understand the cosmos, and yggrassil is not the same as the great wheel, one is a cosmology model and the other is an actual tangable thing in the multiverse

feral lintel
#

Oh yay, Scarlets here!

jagged apex
#

besides yggrassil is not mentioned often unless you are dealing with norse and or giants, and some other not exactly common known bits like how it is said on the wiki that that a branch was quote "a preferred trajectory of the Great Modron March as it moved from Ysgard to Limbo."

#

plus depending on who you ask in universe, it is a source of power for the norse gods or in the case of the Ratatosk, is a deity

feral lintel
#

What plane is the Worldroot Circle based in?

jagged apex
#

any

eager bay
jagged apex
#

is detailed in chapter two of bigby's

feral lintel
#

Ah ic ic. Didnt realize they were everywhere

jagged apex
#

basically anywhere that the world tree touches

#

to quote part of bigby's info on it "Giants of the Worldroot Circle tell this story as a way to remember their purpose. They imagine themselves to be Annam’s gardeners, tasked with tending the roots of all the worlds he made. On some worlds, they literally tend a great world tree they believe to be a seedling of the tree on the First World. On other worlds, they believe some other geographical feature is the “root of the world,” such as a towering mountain or mesa, a yawning cavern deep under the mountains, or a meteorite in an enormous crater. Whatever forms these roots take, the giants believe they are nexus points linking the worlds to each other and to the Outer Planes."

feral lintel
#

which means i can add them to my setting too

jagged apex
#

yeah, is partly why they are in a sourcebook which is setting agnostic, and to my knowledge was the first time they were even introduced or established

feral lintel
#

Alrighty, thanks Scarlet! Ive been trying to add more stuff from Bigbys into my campaigns lol

jagged apex
#

honestly, is pretty easy, as again the content is setting agnostic, much like fizban's, it is not specific to any one setting, but rather the norms across the multiverse, with some things giving specific examples of them and how they are in the lore of certain settings

#

basically in a setting agnostic book, unless it specifies a setting, is safe to assume it is the general norm and lore across the multiverse at least as far as published settings, which they may or may not even have things from there in

feral lintel
#

Ah ic ic.

#

Now, is there some kinda big dragon-giant war? I remember the giants kinda being meh about Tiamats return or something

jagged apex
#

yes, most known example is the 1000 year war on toril in the forgotten realms setting, which their beef with each other seems a near universal constant it seems, i said near as i could be wrong and there could be settings where they are not natural enemies more or less

eager bay
#

So, Yggdrasil connects areas affiliated with norse mythology right?

feral lintel
#

Not just Norse Mythos in DnD

#

Since according to the wiki i sent, Hades is in Helheim

jagged apex
#

the whole reason Annem god upset, to say the least, about tiamat's return was that the giants did nothing to stop this ancient enemy of their's from arriving on tori land terrorizing it, and worse left it up to the smaller races and dragons of good to handle

iron saffron
#

Yggrasil exists in the Great Wheel cosmology
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yggdrasil

Yggdrasil was so massive that it could almost be considered a plane in its own right. It even had certain planar characteristics of its own, such as a mild affinity towards chaos and a mild enhancement of plant- and chaotic-related spells.

The tree's roots were in Niflheim (the second layer of Hades), and its crown was in Ysgard (the homonymous first layer of Ysgard) as described by the Great Wheel cosmology model. Other roots and branches penetrated the Prime planes where Norse deities were recognized, allowing travelers to climb the tree until they reached a portal very similar to a color pool and step through to their destination

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Ah ic ic

eager bay
#

So it does connect to only norse related things with one exception

jagged apex
#

and am presuming you ment Niflheim, to my knowledge there is no "helheim"

iron saffron
#

Considering it's based on Norse mythology...

feral lintel
#

Oh yeah

#

Dunno why i put Hel onto Niflheim

eager bay
#

That exception being the beastlands

#

But it's believed the tree grew to there due to it being so heavily affiliated with nature

iron saffron
#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Yggdrasil#Cosmography

The tree touched all layers of the Beastlands and Elysium, except Belierin, since all portals leading in and out that layer had been sealed. The reasons why Yggdrasil connected with the Beastlands were unclear, since no Norse deities claimed realms in that plane. It was speculated that the wilderness and life-giving properties of the plane were sufficient to root the tree there.

A representation of Yggdrasil showing some of its connections and distances.

Other branches of Yggdrasil connected to the vicinity of Glorium and the realm of the Norns in the Outlands and to Winter's Hall in Pandemonium. The tree also extended a branch into Arvandor in the first layer of Arborea, near a village known as the Gnarl. A branch also extended to Limbo, connecting to a relatively stable forested island known as Pinwheel.

jagged apex
#

yggdrasil, to my knowledge, in dnd is heavily assassinated with norse gods and those that relate to it, but is not exclusive, given to my knowledge some of these examples are not places in norse myth or are just locations that are part of other planes, like pandemonium and limbo, i am not a norse expert though, so for all i know winter's hall could be a thing in norse myth, but limbo i am almost certain ain't

eager bay
feral lintel
#

Would the Vonindod be a Runic Colossus, if not a more powerful one?

eager bay
#

So it only connects to places associated with the things it embodies

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

I really love how the giants just made a giant "mecha" to help fight the dragons

jagged apex
#

as to my knowledge Vonindod had no relation or use of runes or rune magic, it was just a massive near indestructible construct weapon of war

feral lintel
#

Yeah, the wiki doesnt say anything about it. But i would assume so, being made by the giants

jagged apex
#

and Vonindod stands over double the hieght of a typical runic colossus

feral lintel
#

Ooh, interesting. If its already bigger than the Gargantuan Runic Colossus, thst must have been one heck of a golem

jagged apex
#

if i had to make an educated guess, runic colossus were likely an attempt to make something similar to Vonindod, but smaller and less durable but with added means of offense, especially given Vonindod had it's own share of limitations, and was seemingly made exclusively for the thousand year war, so if the creation of runic colossus predated it's creation, he likely was a highly specialized version of the same sort of core concept as the runic colossus seems more versitile in what it is ment to fight since rather than specifically dragons, it's default behavior is to basically attack any and all non giants on sight

jagged apex
#

so definitely seems safe to say that Vonindod was likely specifically designed for killing dragons based on what we know

#

though reading his page, sucks for him if that one legend said about him and tiamat is true, poor guy, in regards to Hjurnur

feral lintel
#

... Geez, thats gotta sting.

#

Having to feed your child to Tiamat...

jagged apex
#

yeah, then again, last i checked, frost giant society is more about might, so is not surprising, but yeah, definitely something that probably would keep the war going for a while

jagged apex
#

worse part being having to watch and not being able to do anything about it

feral lintel
#

Its also quite morbidly funny he drowned in dragon blood in a trap he made for the gold drsgon.

feral lintel
#

Speaking of which, how are frost gisnts with their children

jagged apex
#

so could be one of those things left up to interpriation based on what they do tell of their societies

feral lintel
#

Ok, just read over them, and apparently family (insert Dom from Fast and Furious) was one of their most important bonds... Hjurnur definitely took emotional damage if thats the case

jagged apex
#

what we get on the topic in bigby's is more so for a type of encounter and is not specific to any sort of giant

#

quote "Most giants live in family groups, typically four to six adult giants from multiple generations and one or two younger giants. The work of hunting, gathering, or cultivating food, as well as other household tasks, is divided among family members according to their abilities. These groups often include at least one member with exceptional abilities, such as the magic-wielding giants" the rest of it is more so tables and mechanics and such

feral lintel
#

Oh, i read from the wiki this:

In their societies, the most important bond (besides that of the ordning) was that of family.[16] So much so that the recitation of ancestral lineage was an important aspect of the sagas crafted by their skalds, with each new character being introduced with a full recitation accompanied by appropriate music.

#

So, losing a child is gonna do numbers to both your lineage and emotional state

#

Jeez Hjurnurs story is doing numbers on me

mint karma
#

how do "layers" and "depth" work when it comes to the Hells and Abyss? Like, they aren't stacked on top of each other, right? So what makes one "deeper" than another?

sharp owl
#

you must pass through a higher level to reach a lower level

#

In the abyss, the layers are numbered, with higher levels being deeper

#

Deeper doesn't just mean travelling further vertically down, it also means getting further into something

#

For example with the Nine Hells of Baator, Avernus is the level that is closest to all the other planes, mainly because the Styx flows through it

#

As you travel to the other levels, you get further away from that proximity to the other planes and thus deeper into the Nine Hells

mint karma
#

what's defined as going through it? The FR wiki says Avernus is infinite so how does one define going deeper

#

oh, looks like there's a portal to each one in the previous one

and ofc the river styx

dull vessel
#

so how do beholders reproduce?

#

like how are they made?

obsidian gate
#

they dream

modest badger
#

From Volo's Guide to Monsters p.6:

On extremely rare occasions when a beholder dreams of another beholder, the act creates a warp in reality-from which a new, fully formed beholder springs forth unbidden, seemingly having appeared out of thin air in a nearby space.

obsidian gate
#

like literally Beholders dream about having a rival beholder and that creates one

modest badger
#

Which can also create different types of beholders or even non-beholders.

obsidian gate
dull vessel
#

Okay so not just any abberation right? like a mind flayer couldnt dream of a beholder, but rather a beholder has to do it?

obsidian gate
#

yeah this dreaming thing is beholder specific

dull vessel
#

Gotcha gotcha!

#

thank you!

#

playing a beholder so i need to fix up the lore

modest badger
#

Sort of explains why so many beholders are incredibly paranoid, when their paranoias happen to often come true, and their rivals keep sneaking up on them while they sleep

upbeat forum
#

Would a green hag in an arctic forest make any sense?

sharp owl
#

Not really a lore question

eager bay
#

About the question asked in #dnd-discussion : Multiple FR products have had the fey equivalent of the underdark play a big role

still swift
#

In D&D do zombies work like they do in other media?

#

Bite = infected?

sharp owl
#

There's no single zombie type

#

Even within a given setting, they vary

still swift
#

Ah

sharp owl
#

Some zombies are intentionally raised from corpses, some are any corpse in an area affected by a spell or curse

still swift
#

What about a basic human zombie?

sharp owl
#

That's not a type of zombie

still swift
#

Oh

sharp owl
#

There's no such thing as a 'basic human zombie'

#

In the various settings of D&D there are multiple ways to make even the most basic zombie

#

There are at least some instances of 'infectious' zombies

still swift
#

Aight

sharp owl
#

For example, the husk zombie from the Exandria setting has "Curse of the Husk" which causes any humanoid killed by a husk zombie to revive as a zombie themselves

#

There's a domain of dread where the inhabitants fight an endless war against hoards of zombies and those that die rise against next night to join the attackers

still swift
#

Oh wow

crude blaze
#

Ah Falkovnia my beloved

jagged apex
still swift
#

ah

#

what do they crave?

feral lintel
#

Flesh (for ghasts)

jagged apex
#

nothing, if anything like most undead, just to destroy life, but are often controled by a master such as a necromancer

still swift
#

ah

#

well now I know how D&D zombies act lol

#

I'll probably just change them to be TWD-like zombies for my campaign lol

jagged apex
#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Zombie this should prove useful if you have more questions regarding dnd zombies, as in most settings they act similarly and any differences are usually specified in those settings or the variants they have such as the earlier mentioned husk zombie

iron saffron
#

That's flavour that doesn't affect the gameplay mechanics, which is beyond the scope of this channel.

still swift
jagged apex
#

yeah, this channel is for covering the default ie published lore of established dnd settings and the wider published continuity of the editions

still swift
#

how are zombies a thing lore wise?

jagged apex
#

especially with more recent books exploring the multiverse as published rather than being setting specific

#

necromancy

still swift
#

ah

iron saffron
still swift
#

alright

still swift
jagged apex
#

yes, dnd has a canonical multiverse, hense why we have multiple settings

iron saffron
#

D&D has a multiverse since 1E.

#

Each plane of existence is an universe onto itself.

jagged apex
#

not to mention the planes of existance

still swift
#

ah

#

like Avernus?

#

which is all I know, that and Sword Coast

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

avernus is but one layer of the plane of baator aka the 9 hells

modest badger
#

Remember that Zombies in D&D appeared in 1974 Original Box Set.
Zombies eating brains was more Return of the Living Dead (1985). Night of the Living Dead (1968) however did introduce bites spreading the infection.

However in D&D it's more a mix of the older lore (them being raised and controlled by a necromancer) and not the concept of an infectious disease (Romero zombies)

jagged apex
#

the sword coast is a specific part of the continent of faerun on the planet toril in the forgotten realms setting

iron saffron
still swift
jagged apex
modest badger
#

Yep, although adapted a bit to fit D&D.

jagged apex
#

dnd typically pulls from multiple mythologies in our own world and pop culture to make their own, kind of why some historical deities such as just for an example odin, may differ from the faith and or mythology in our world

feral lintel
#

Jiangshi do exist, right?

jagged apex
#

yes

feral lintel
#

Ooh, interesting

modest badger
#

They're in Van Richten's

jagged apex
#

outside of maybe kara-tur, i know they are mentioned in the 5e ravenloft book

feral lintel
#

Ic ic

iron saffron
#

Jiangshi are Chinese "hopping" vampires / zombies.

feral lintel
#

Yeah, just wondered if there was like an actual hopping zombie somewhere

jagged apex
#

in dnd they seem to be more vampiric

#

they are listed in "Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft", on page 236

iron saffron
#

In Chinese myths they're a mix of zombie and vampire. They're not 1:1 with Western vampires. Their bodies are stiff, hence hopping to move around, like a zombie.

jagged apex
#

and seem to be associated with the domain of dread known as "I’Cath"

#

so at the very least we know they exist in that particular domain, within the section of the shadowfell known as the domains of dread in 5e

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

ah, did not wanna assume

unkempt merlin
#

It's considered "not canon"

jagged apex
#

different edition = different continuity, not everything is nessissarily the same as editions past

#

also i never heard or read the 5e firbolg to be considered not canon, let alone on the forgotten realms wiki

echo parcel
#

I’ve got really conflicting info on this

Forgotten realms: does Cthulhu exist?

modest badger
crude blaze
#

In theory, yes. 5E has Cthulhu listed as an example of a Great Old One warlock patron

#

And the current core 3 books are written mostly from a FR perspective

#

Actually, disregard my comments. Just recalled that the warlock patrons list different names from different settings.

echo parcel
#

Ok Ty

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge though especially has not been refferenced in forgotten realms specifically

echo parcel
#

Ty

jagged apex
#

i think it was either 1e or 2e, cuthulu and his associated pantheon were actually stated out back in the old days where the artwork was often black and white

#

so they definitely existed then, but don't recall if it was specific to any single setting

#

well the current edition of the 5e phb which contains the great old one warlock does indeed mention cthulu, but nothing denoting him specifically being in any one setting, if anything likely could be used in any setting as likely resides in the far realm

#

quote "Entities of this type include Ghaunadar, called That Which Lurks; Tharizdun, the Chained God; Dendar, the Night Serpent; Zargon, the Returner; Great Cthulhu; and other unfathomable beings." so is implied he exists, and some of those other examples to my knowledge exist in multiple settings, but again to my knowledge Great Cthulhu, is only really listed there and not in any established setting, let alone forgotten realms that i am aware of

#

honestly, can't think of anything that would prevent him from gaining influence in realmspace, though people would likely reach out to make a pact with him by accident if i had to guess

#

though at times the phb that we currently have does tend to lean towards the forgotten realms, so you could make the arguement but may be a stretch

iron saffron
#

Cthulhu was in the first printing of 1E Deities & Demigods but wasn't in the 2nd printing due to legal issues...

agile merlin
#

There's also Dagon featured as an obyrith demon lord

iron saffron
#

Yes.

jagged apex
#

who far as we know is simply a being that shares a name with the cthulhuian entity, to my knowledge there has never been anything depicting them as one in the same or as aspects of one another, like for example dendar the night serpent and the dragon nidhogg in the forgotten realms setting

#

though naturally as an obyrith he does have a sort of eldritch element to him compared to the demon lords who are of the tanari

agile merlin
#

Also isn't there a frost giant god named Loki?

jagged apex
#

no

#

there is a norse god named loki

#

him being tied to frost giants to my knowledge is more of a marvel thing, not something from dnd

agile merlin
jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Utgard-Loki isn't Loki.

magic jackal
#

In real world Mythology Loki is the son of a Jotunn so he's at least half Giant.

agile merlin
#

I wasn't saying he was Loki

#

I was giving another example of FR figures with the same names as religious figures

magic jackal
#

And pretty much all giants in real world Norse Mythology are "Frost Giants"

jagged apex
agile merlin
#

No, I was thinking of Utgard-Loki. I forgot what the other half of his name was

feral lintel
#

Hes a fickle ally of the giants, but hes not a frost giant himself

magic jackal
#

Utgard Loki is a different figure also from Norse Mythology who simply has the same name (Loki is just a word that can mean something like tangle)

jagged apex
#

but loki to my knowledge in the realms just happens to be a name in the giant's language, much like norse, and does not nessissarily have anything to do with the god loki

magic jackal
#

Utgard Loki is a trickster and the king of the giants in Norse Mythology, so that's probably where the DND character comes from.

feral lintel
#

Is there a difference between the Surturs tho?

agile merlin
#

It does directly say he fooled Loki with his own illusions on the page

jagged apex
#

you may have thought the powerful frost giant king was a god, since thrym is a god and at some point apparently fathered utgard-loki

feral lintel
#

Is he the same Surtr as the Norse mythos one? The wiki doesnt touch in that

agile merlin
#

I think I even read somewhere that Odin has half-Jotun
Of course, Norse Jotun weren't even giant-sized :p

iron saffron
#

Essentially yes.

jagged apex
#

i am fairly sure he is inspired by the norse surtr

iron saffron
#

D&D heavily borrows from real world myths and legends.

jagged apex
#

of all cultures, as i believe was mentioned earlier when someone was asking about the lore of zombies in dnd compared to modern media

agile merlin
#

There used to be "JuJu" zombies that retained a lot more of their intelligence

jagged apex
#

is also why some creatures have different names, as some cultures have the same names for completely different creatures, is why the medusa in dnd is named what it is

#

some creatures even stem from the same or at least similar inspiration

agile merlin
#

And it's kinda neat how that's even caught on with other fantasy
Like how Castlevania considers a "gorgon" to be a lesser catoblepas usually

#

Eh, change of topic

mint karma
#

how lore friendly of an idea is a group of evil sorcerers who, whenever one of them dies, the others go to Baator and fish his soul out so he can rejoin them

jagged apex
#

sounds unlikely, like at all, plus recovering a soul does not automatically mean they are able to come back to life

#

plus, to wind up in baator they would have to have been lawful evil in the eyes of the cosmos when they died or have been indebted or a worshiper of a devil

mint karma
#

my thought is their focus on loyalty to the group would put them in lawful evil territory

jagged apex
#

honestly seems more like a thing for #dm-world-building is probably a more fitting place for asking about that, as there is no real lore to it

agile merlin
#

Does anybody know why the Flannae decorate their faces like they do? Or if it's face paint or straight up tattoos? I read Vecna was thought to have been a Flan human, and it made me wonder why he's never been depicted as having those facial markings

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge he never is depicted in life, we only ever see him post lichdom or post godhood far as i am aware, either way could have not seen any point in such a practice and simply chose not to

#

plus just cus he was thought to be from flan, does not mean he nessissarily was

modest badger
#

Also things like Flan, Suel, Oridian in Greyhawk are more like old bloodline.
Flan heritage can be found in the Wolf Nomads, or the Tenh, or Rovers of the Barren.
So their dress and culture can vary wildly.

And to make it more confused Vecna was supposedly 'Ur-Flan' which.. doesn't seem to be fleshed out besides being mystics and necromancers of the Flan people.

feral lintel
#

Theres a people named after food?

#

Leche-Flan...

jagged apex
#

likely just a coincidence, i doubt they were named after food intentionally

feral lintel
#

... Wait, leche flan->liche flan

modest badger
#

But to answer your question- it's body paint

#

CW/ outdated language used to describe nomadic vs settled peoples

Flannae once wore brightly-hued body paints, with yellow ochre and vermillion being favourites. While the Rovers of the Barrens still use considerable body painting (where their high boots, loincloth and chest and arm leather don't cover them), the more civilised Flan dress in the mode currently fashionable in their portion of the continent.
1e World of Greyhawk Boxset, p 14

feral lintel
#

Hehehe, civilized Flan

agile merlin
#

Did Obi-Wan Kenobi write that?
"More elegant dress for a civillized Flan."

modest badger
#

That'd be the outdated language

agile merlin
#

I guessed

#

Good old 1980s

thorny hound
#

how does someone become a Sorcerer? I was under the impression that you are just born a Sorc and something challanged that recently

jagged apex
#

basically you have a source of magic or natural talent for it in your blood

#

like surviving being caught in a wild magic storm, you may wind up becoming a wild magic sorcerer just as an example

agile merlin
#

I think it depends on the sorcerer
Some are definitely bloodlines, but it's mentioned that it may be a gift as well, sort of a more pro-bono version of pact magic

modest badger
#

PHB: https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/sorcerer#RawMagic

The appearance of sorcerous powers is wildly unpredictable. Some draconic bloodlines produce exactly one sorcerer in every generation, but in other lines of descent every individual is a sorcerer. Most of the time, the talents of sorcery appear as apparent flukes. Some sorcerers can't name the origin of their power, while others trace it to strange events in their own lives. The touch of a demon, the blessing of a dryad at a baby's birth, or a taste of the water from a mysterious spring might spark the gift of sorcery. So too might the gift of a deity of magic, exposure to the elemental forces of the Inner Planes or the maddening chaos of Limbo, or a glimpse into the inner workings of reality.

jagged apex
#

the main factor is a sorcerer's magic or source of magical know how is innate, not learned

#

basically you are either born one or undergo an event or encounter/interaction that imbues you with magic/magical know how depending how you view it

misty mortar
#

Does anyone have info for “Helm” god of protection? My paladin follows his faith, but it doesn’t really say much in the forgotten realms book or wiki other than that he is aggressively lawful neutral

#

Like I’m unsure of what a paladin raised to believe in his faith since childhood would value as a person, if anyone could help, I would appreciate it 😁

agile merlin
#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Church_of_Helm Maybe a good starting point, the rest of his faithful. Helm himself is all about duty and upholding responsibilities. When Ao told him to guard the stairway to heaven, he didn't hesitate to kill anyone who tried to get by his vigil, no matter the god.
But, I found this note on his wiki, too: "Helm was particularly fond of children, and often forgave their minor transgressions." So even he's not above a little bit of forgive and forget or bias

#

But, for a paladin of Helm, probably the most important thing is protecting anything, anyone, and everything they've been entrusted to keep watch over

#

But that's more #character-discussion's domain, now that I think of it. It feels congruent with the man himself, though

misty mortar
silent atlas
#

Among the good gods who is the most prominent in the modules

sharp owl
#

That's not really a lore question, but to answer it anyway, none

#

Actually, that's only true of 5th edition adventures

#

I'm not sure if that information is readily available

jagged apex
#

plus it likely would vary from what setting a module may be in, if not just from the fact that not every god has a presence in every setting

obsidian gate
#

by sheer "screentime", I suspect Tiamat might take it with just the one adventure about her and a few cameos

#

regarding 5e only

sharp owl
#

My gut says overall throughout D&D it'd be either Lolth or Tiamat

muted kettle
#

Hey does anyone know about Dendar the night serpent's lore ? i'd like to know more

obsidian gate
muted kettle
#

Wdym old and new lore

#

And is dendar relevant in all dnd lore

sharp owl
#

D&D is 50 years old

obsidian gate
#

well the lore and what is canon changes over the editions

sharp owl
#

Some lore is older than newer lore

#

Some of it contradicts

eager bay
#

And the Forgotten Realms have had "eras" of writing and different writers have had very different ideas of what the setting should be

muted kettle
eager bay
#

Giant snake god, primal entity of darkness, sun-swallower...

jagged apex
eager bay
#

But she's been sleeping for millenias and, as a result, is not really important.

#

She's important to the Yuan-Ti, though. One of their gods.

#

Otherwise...Depends on the story you want to tell

muted kettle
eager bay
jagged apex
eager bay
#

But yes, she's strong. Stronger than most gods.

muted kettle
eager bay
#

She's not in the Nine Hells, that's Tiamat

muted kettle
muted kettle
eager bay
#

Eh, depends on the source, but a few source have Dendar be asleep deep under the earth.

muted kettle
#

Ohh like nordic mythology type of thing ? With the world serpent

#

And if i want to introduce her, should it be her awakening by herself or awoken by some sort of external force

sharp owl
jagged apex
#

plus in the forgotten realms at least is also the dragon nidhogg, at least this is believed in universe by those known as "the ancient Rus", so there are those bits too

muted kettle
sharp owl
#

Yes, of course

eager bay
#

It's difficult to imagine that there would be info about Dendar that someone here would have but that the FR wiki wouldn't have.

sharp owl
#

But it's often quicker and easier to do some reading first

muted kettle
jagged apex
muted kettle
eager bay
muted kettle
eager bay
#

Hard to say.

#

Their agendas are not aligned. Dendar is a ravenous eater of dreams and nightmares, a primordial evil and sun devourer. Shar is an omnicidal goddess of darkness. They have nothing in common

iron saffron
#

Shar is a greater goddess.

muted kettle
#

And in term of strength ? Im learning everyday man thats incredible

eager bay
#

Impossible to say.

#

In 5e we have stats for Dendar, we don't have stats for Shar.

#

But Shar has a church, servants, alliances. Dendar has none of that.

iron saffron
#

That's slipping to gameplay mechanics.
Shar has stats in 3.5E Faiths & Pantheons.

unkempt merlin
#

(There also aren't any official 5e stats for either)

iron saffron
#

Dendar is a CR 30 creature.

#

Again, this is slipping out of lore territory if you want to compare strength based on gameplay mechanics.

eager bay
#

And "strength" is a nebulous concept. By lore, few people or things want to mess with Dendar.

iron saffron
muted kettle
#

Hahaha im glad you said that, i’ll set up a fight when players hit level 20 and more with artifacts n all. They won’t be alone to do it, ig i’ll have to wait for them to level up ! I’ll look up the forgott realms for now thanks yall

jagged apex
#

and again, from what i am aware, that 5e statblock is for the purposes of them not at full power

eager bay
#

And consider the fact that Dendar feeds primarily on nightmares.

#

If Dendar ends up dead, who knows what kind of stuff would happen

jagged apex
#

anything beyond cr 30 in 5e basically needs no stats as it is not something mortals, even player characters, can defeat in a conventional fight is how i understand it

eager bay
#

Eh, debatable. I don't think there is anything beyond CR 30 in the sense that, no matter how much more powerful you are from the others CR 30, you will still be CR 30

jagged apex
#

the reason there is nothing beyond cr 30 in 5e is cuz of the reason i said previously, least is my understanding, but that is getting a bit away from lore

#

dendar is basically powerful enough to where you gotta hit them hard and fast from the get go, else once they get to full strength, you are basically screwed, especially given they are large enough to swallow the sun of realmspace

eager bay
#

Well it's unknown if Dendar really did swallow the sun. It could be a legend.

jagged apex
#

which is also why i feel the context associated with that 5e statblock in the adventure is important

eager bay
#

Or she could have killed the original god of the sun.

#

Or she could have indeed actually done it.

jagged apex
eager bay
#

But otherwise, yes, Dendar is a world ending threat. If she gets to full power, full freedom and out of slumber, she's the apocalypse.

jagged apex
eager bay
#

In my reading of the Forgotten Realms campaign guide, everything around that time period was presented as legends, not fact

jagged apex
#

also she is described as wanting to bring about the end of all things

agile merlin
#

Didn't the Circle of the Eight need help from Iuz to beat Vecna in 2e?
Gods are pretty usually above the pay grade of anything that gets old and dies

eager bay
#

Vecna wasn't yet a god when that adventure was written, I think.

#

He was just too strong for them

grave blade
#

or just acknowledging that cr 30 is good enough given how high level play doesn't largely exist, or any number of such considerations

agile merlin
#

Still, an archlich who's leagues above the greatest wizards of the age still couldn't take a demigod in a straight fight in thay case

grave blade
jagged apex
#

way i see it, Dendar is a world ending threat bare minimum if going by her canonical lore

grave blade
#

makes me want to steal a joke from 40k where the only reason reality hasn't ended is the apocalypses are fighting eachother

eager bay
#

Most other apocalypses are less total.

jagged apex
#

and potentially the rest of the cosmos, but she seems heavily tied to realmspace or at least is most active in that setting

grave blade
#

eh, the rest of the cosmos gets into noodly questions like 'Dendar vs the lady of pain' and 'what's the deal with the shard of pure evil that is continually forming/expanding the abyss'

iron saffron
#

"What if" scenarios isn't really the perview of this channel.

jagged apex
#

honestly, could in relation to the rest of the cosmos, could arugably come down to if the ancient rus are correct in their belief that Dendar and Nidhogg are one and the same

#

but that connection to my knowledge has not been solidified beyond a believe of a certain people in universe

grave blade
agile merlin
#

Plus, there's probably enough omnipotent, deathless warlords and archfiends around to keep those apocalypses in check, on the grounds that "if the world ends, it's gonna be cuz of me" if nothing else

grave blade
#

Literally 40k lol

unkempt merlin
grave blade
#

not quite sure where to ask this, but did Maruts ever have special powers that made them better against things like undead? Looked at the statblock from the 3.5 srd (or at least something saying it was) and it seems like they were just about teleporting to the problem and punching it to death

agile merlin
#

I mean, they can stun an entire crowd of anything with an explosion of radiant damage
Plus, no undead I can think of has any kind of force resistance either
But yeah, nothing about them seems to scream "undead hunter" at least now. You'd think they'd at least have resistance against life drain, considering, you know, they're robots, not living things

magic jackal
#

They were originally designed to enforce the inevitability of death as a cosmic function.

agile merlin
#

Now it seems like they're more interplanar bailiffs

magic jackal
magic jackal
agile merlin
magic jackal
#

Yes, that's why they're called inevitables.

agile merlin
#

Imagine thinking you're hot shit as a lich, and then some giant robot that looks like Mr. Electric shows up and two-shots you

silent atlas
#

Are there any friendly beholders in lore

unkempt merlin
#

Which setting?

silent atlas
#

Any

sterile breach
#

Large Luigi in Spelljammer is maybe not friendly but certainly not evil.

agile merlin
#

I doubt if any beholders are particularly friendly. Paranoia is as inborn in them as greed is in dragons, no?

jagged apex
#

there is Tobulux

unkempt merlin
#

A friendly and/or good beholder is definitely possible in general

jagged apex
#

he is an outcast literally for his good alignment

#

so at least in the forgotten realms there is one confirmed good beholder, as far as i know he is still alive

#

though technically friendly and good are not meutally exclusive to one another far as i am aware

agile merlin
#

True

#

How uncommon is the knowledge that Iggwilv and Tasha the Dark are the same wizard?

iron saffron
#

To whom? The general public or among archmages?

#

Iggwilv is quite (in)famous since she was the author of the Demonomicon.

sharp owl
agile merlin
#

Either, I suppose. Like, is one more commonly regarded as Baba Yaga's daughter than the other to the less well-versed?

iron saffron
#

I don't know that much about Greyhawk lore so I can't tell you who well known she is among the general populace of Oerth (comapred to the other famous mages of Greyhawk).

agile merlin
#

I know Iggwilv is a more contemporary figure, at least

iron saffron
#

What do you mean?

#

She's been around since 1E.

agile merlin
#

I mean in the actual timeline
Tasha was involved with an adventuring group that predates Mordenkainen, but Iggwilv is some tyrant somewhere

silent atlas
#

I feel like xanathar wouldbe kinda friendly so he could barter magical items and such from the party

magic jackal
#

The current Xanathar is not friendly he's just intelligent insofar as he's able to cooperate with individuals, or at least understands the value of not killing people if they remain useful to him.

iron saffron
#

Xanathar is more of title than a singular beholder.

magic jackal
#

Xanathar is a title for the Beholder who runs the Thieves Guild established by the first Xanathar (who actually held the name) the current Xanathar is Zushaxx, a LE Paranoid, Ambitious Megalomaniac who zealously desires wealth and knowledge and power.

#

He's not "friendly"

obsidian gate
#

hey he is friendly to his goldfish

#

which totally hasnt died multiple times and as been secretly replaced, no sir

modest badger
# agile merlin How uncommon is the knowledge that Iggwilv and Tasha the Dark are the same wizar...

Honestly your best bet for 5e Tasha lore is this:https://dnd.wizards.com/lore/tasha
Plus Wild Beyond the Witch Light.

Tasha as a member of the Company of Seven is apparently common knowledge:
Shenda isn’t sure what the Company of Seven might be, but a successful DC 15 Knowledge (history) check reveals that it was a famous adventuring group that was active hundreds of years ago. Its members included Keoghtom, Murlynd, Tasha, Zagig, Heward, Quaal, and Nolzur—all famous heroes whose names should be known to any adventurer worth his salt.
-Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk Castle
But the connection to Iggwilv is explored in that module. Most go 'Huh.. Tasha kinda sounds a lot like Iggwilv?' So it's obviously not well known that she is Iggwilv at that point.

magic jackal
#

Yeah but remember, it's explicitly called out that that's literally the only creature it cares about, i.e., not friendly to anyone else who is not its fish.

silent atlas
modest badger
#

She goes through a lot of names, but sure.
Although any further details on that may count as #1029833015423143957

silent atlas
#

Better?

reef coral
grave blade
#

unless they un retconned it?

jagged apex
#

to be fair the version we saw in 5e is effectively one that has been repruposed

#

at least that is my understanding

thorny helm
#

Where can i find out more about kiaransalee?

jagged apex
thorny helm
#

Alr checked

#

Anywhere else?

#

What sourcebooms should i look in?

jagged apex
#

assuming you mean sourcebooks, mainly those cited on the wiki

thorny helm
#

Alr ty!

jagged apex
#

she is not a very high profile goddess, most outside of the drow wind up dealing with Lolth or her opposing daughter Eilistraee

grave blade
magic jackal
grave blade
#

nah, because the marut entry straight up says that inevtiables as a whole exist only for the contracts made in that contract place in sigil

#

tho i'

#

ll still probably use the old fluff

#

partly because the runesmith video mentioned a 3.5 spell where they would appear saying 'who denies death?' and that's really cool

jagged apex
#

there is nothing that stops them from being used for their original purpose to my knowledge, plus some ways of cheating death involve such deals sometimes

#

at best it is probably something left up to interpretation

grave blade
#

If it involves a deal in the hall in question, otherwise it doesn't apply

But again, I'm also blatantly going to use the old fluff even tho it's been retconned

jagged apex
#

my guess is that in the 5e continuity, people cheating death is not as common an issue as it was in prior continuities

#

each edition is as much it's own continuity as it is a continuation, if not more so

feral lintel
#

Reviving someone aint cheap either

#

what is the lore reason for the diamonds though?

#

Ive heard it was to show the value of life or something along those lines

iron saffron
#

It's a gameplay mechanic to keep players from spamming the spells.

jagged apex
#

and is up to a god, and the most common way of lichdom to my knowledge is no cakewalk either, promising your soul to several beings at the same time

grave blade
feral lintel
#

Oh, was it purely just for that?

iron saffron
#

If there wasn't a gold value attached to a consumable material componentt then clerics would be going around a cementary, "You get a Raise Dead! And you get a Raise Dead!"

#

Not everything in D&D has a lore reason. It's a game first and foremost.

feral lintel
#

Ah. I thought they would at least give it some lore.... ah well

grave blade
#

Has it been justified in prior editions with fluff?

#

Post hoc ofc, but I'm curious regardless

jagged apex
#

on the lore side of revival, it is up to both the god and the soul wether or not they come back to life

feral lintel
#

same

#

Ah

#

So it is just rather arbitrary...

#

Does this mean it can technically change?

grave blade
#

Well yes? Tho sometimes it gets justified with the laws of reality changing via xyz big event

#

Like, there was this thing where atheists went to a wall of screaming souls when they did, which

Well I'm pretty sure it doesn't happen anymore?

feral lintel
#

They removed it, iirc

grave blade
#

Retconned or did something happen in world?

feral lintel
#

not too sure at that point

iron saffron
#

Raise Dead didn't have material component in 1E or 2E but in 3E costs 5000gp diamond. Remember that in earlier edition there was a chance of failure when being raised based on your Con score.

jagged apex
#

in one of the games apparently two people raised an army to tear down the wall, though does not seem to elaborate if such a thing was successful

agile merlin
#

I wonder if, in the case of the Faithless, resurrection is still possible after their soul is fully assimilated into the wall in Kelemvor's realm?

jagged apex
#

otherwise canonically weather or not the wall still exists is unknown

#

doubt any mortals are in a hurry to find out one way or the other though ^^;

unkempt merlin
#

canonically it doesn't

agile merlin
#

So what happens to faithless then?

unkempt merlin
#

it was explicitly retconned out

agile merlin
#

Straight to ghosthood?

feral lintel
#

To the trashcan

agile merlin
#

And how come everything I like keeps getting retconned out of existence

unkempt merlin
#

it was (mistakenly) mentioned in SCAG, and then the singular mention of it was removed from SCAG with an errata a few years ago

jagged apex
#

does not stop you from using it in your own games, just means the published lore is not a thing and thus not gunna be taken into account likely when writing new lore

#

the thing they have in it's place at least according to the cited novel, seems similiarly interesting to me at least

#

likely any what would have been called faithless would just manifest on the plane corrosponding to their alignment as the natural process of the cosmos, at least based off what was described in 5e planescape

#

just if you are faithful to a god they can pull some strings to get you into their realm where ever that may be specifically

grave blade
jagged apex
#

the wall, seems to be no, it is no longer a thing

meager lotus
#

This might be a silly question and I'm not sure if this is the right channel, but is it even remotely within the realm of possibility for a level 20 party of 4-5 to kill Szass Tam? or is he like near-god level powerful? I wanted to have a long campaign where eventually the party gets his attention and they showdown against him and ideally kill him. Maybe they get a holy relic that lets them do it?

iron saffron
#

#dm-discussion would be a better channel for that question. This channel deals with lore and not gameplay mechanics.

meager lotus
#

It is about lore though, whether it's feasible for people of that power level. I'd like to be able to just ask a question without being told off for once

iron saffron
#

Lore doesn't deal with power levels of PCs

#

Lore doesn't deal with gameplay mechanics (PC classes and levels) nor does it deal with "what if" situations.

#

Lore is "history."

#

I'm not "telling you off" because you had asked if this was the right channel and I politely told you no and why.

magic jackal
#

lore questions of a similar nature might be:
"How powerful is Szass Tam?"
"What resources/organizations does Szass Tam control?"
etc.

meager lotus
#

Characters get stronger and more capable of dealing increasingly monstrous threats. Level is both a way of defining that strength story-wise for the audience in a simple way, as well as an easily understood mechanic for gameplay. Laeral Silverhand, an NPC and political figure, is labeled as a level 19 wizard, so that we know what kind of spells she's capable of casting. That aside, my thing at the moment is that I don't know 100% how strong Szass Tam is within lore, and how strong characters which have been labeled as level 20 in power/strength/etc in lore, (again, some NPCs are given levels so we know how strong they are) and therefore, I don't know if people of that level of strength are able to take down someone like him. I'm also entirely unsure where his phylactery is or if it's even possible to find. He is literally the most powerful and legendary lich known to exist in the realms by late 15th century DR, if I'm not wrong. As a DM, who's writing the narrative of this campaign, I just want to know if he's beyond the abilities of any mortal to kill.

iron saffron
meager lotus
#

Please read my comment before redirecting me

magic jackal
#

PC levels are not the best way to approximate the power of a character in lore. PC levels vary wildly in strength. Tiers might be on the fence.

feral lintel
#

This channel doesnt really deal with mechanics at all

magic jackal
#

A question like "is Szass Tam a threat to the realms at large?" is lore.

#

(and it does give you general power levels because it tells you what tier of PCs would likely handle him)

meager lotus
#

I'm not asking about mechanics, Epic Level Tea basically got across what I was asking

iron saffron
#

You're dealing with gameplay mechanics. Levels change with each edition. NPCs have epic levels back in 3.5E and 4E but are capped in 5E. Power level is subjective to the edition

magic jackal
#

I'm agreeing with oldman and timo

#

I'm giving you ways to ask your questions in lore appropriate ways

#

I'm saying the way you phrased it belongs in DM discussion because this channel doesn't deal with mechanics at all, that includes levels because they aren't the best approximation for a character in lore strictly speaking.

meager lotus
#

Can you guys please at least try to understand me? The questions you suggested are basically what I meant

iron saffron
#

Lore: Szass Tam is a powerful lich.
Gameplay: Szass Tam is a CR 30 monster in 5E. A CR 31 monster in 3.5E with 10 levels of necromancer, 17 levels of red wizard, and 2 levels in achmage.

That's the difference.

magic jackal
#

He controls Thay and all its resources, he controls the Red Wizards who are very powerful and have a very long reach and a great deal of knowledge and information gathering resources, he's a very powerful and intelligent and careful and ambitious Lich, and he's apprenticed under and exchanged with other even more formidable Liches such as Larloch.

#

So I'd say he's a threat to the realm at least and possibly multiple planes.

#

in 5e that's referred to as tiers 3 and 4

#

Does that answer your question?

meager lotus
#

I guess? So basically a group of 4 mortals regardless of ability would get completely wiped unless they were given some insane divine blessing or something?

magic jackal
#

That's not what I said...

iron saffron
#

That's not the purview of this channel to discuss "what if" scenarios.

meager lotus
feral lintel
#

This channel is for discussing pre-established lore from the books

#

What happens at your table isnt canon to the official lore

iron saffron
meager lotus
#

I'm asking based on the history of him and what is known about him

iron saffron
#

That's fine but the part about the PCs is irrelevant.

magic jackal
#

If you want to discuss the narrative of your campaign, DM discussion. If you want to ask "What are the abilities Szass Tam has? What is his relative power (not levels, not "can these hypothetical PCs beat him")? What organizations does he control? What can they do? What resources does he control? What can they do?" then ask those here and get answers.

meager lotus
#

My man, the player's characters are the main characters in a narrative, and as ordinary mortals, they have a limit to their ability. Simple as

iron saffron
magic jackal
#

I'm feeding you the questions to ask, don't get hung up on the whole "Hypothetical PCs" issue

meager lotus
#

Simply put, can 4 mortals kill this man? That's literally all I want to know.

iron saffron
magic jackal
feral lintel
#

He hasnt been killed yet

magic jackal
magic jackal
meager lotus
#

That is all I want to know, not levels, not spell slots, not anything other than the question of whether or not any mortal is capable of doing it, regardless of if they are a PC or not.

magic jackal
#

Anything can happen

#

That's not what this channel is for.

#

And if you're writing a campaign you can write it such that it's plausible.

meager lotus
#

Well then forget it. I don't even want to talk about this anymore. I'll just abandon this entire campaign idea.

magic jackal
#

Nobody was telling you to do that... You're overreacting.

meager lotus
#

sure...

magic jackal
#

People were recommending you to the right channel to get advice on hypothetical questions like that.

#

And I was giving you examples of questions to ask that are related to your topic and are appropriate for this channel.

#

We're helping you within the limits of our ability here.

feral lintel
#

As i said again, what happens at your table isnt canon to offficial lore. Thus that is up to you to decide.

meager lotus
#

I one billion percent guarantee you if I do, I will be redirected here. there's no point. I am well familiar with this kind of thing happening to me.

magic jackal
#

Old Man even linked a bunch of places you can look for information on exactly this topic that this channel is for.

#

Actually the DM discussion answer is probably "Your campaign. You can write it however you want."

#

"Can PCs do this in a fully homebrew campaign I am writing?" The answer is always yes cuz you're writing it.

#

"How do I write it?" That's DM discussion.

#

"What sources can I consult for information on Szass Tam and associated things?" That's here.

meager lotus
#

Just forget it. I'll just not ever try to ask for any help with my campaigns ever again

magic jackal
#

Again, that's not what anybody's saying.

#

We're doing everything we can to help you here.

feral lintel
magic jackal
#

^ I'm sorry that this server isn't a one stop shop for any question and you gotta do some bouncing around, I get it's not the most ideal set-up but it's how they have to manage it with this many people so channels don't get too cluttered with off topic.

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once you get used to it, it's not that bad.

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and it's nice because people can pick and choose what they're comfortable helping with, I'm more active here than I am in dm discussion cuz this is more my wheelhouse.

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The people who are more active there than here are the reverse and give better advice than I can.

fiery iron
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If Devils are the representative creatures for Lawful Evil, what other creatures can be used to rip represent an alignment?

magic jackal
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Demons are typically CE

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Celestials Span Good typically

fiery iron
magic jackal
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Less pronounced than Fiends iirc

fiery iron
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I see

iron saffron
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Yugoloths NE

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Slaads CN

feral lintel
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Modrons are LN

magic jackal
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Generally personifications of alignment is reserved for Outsiders

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They're not just influenced by primordial forces related to an alignment, but composed of them, hence Fiends are Evil.

iron saffron
magic jackal
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Exceptions exist, I don't think Tieflings and Aasimar are considered Outsiders in 5e right?

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for example ^

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and I think the same goes for Genasi

feral lintel
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All of them are planetouched

iron saffron
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They were planetouched Outsiders in 3.5E

magic jackal
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Yeah, but 5e has them a lot more "fluid" as it were

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Hence I think the classification may be inaccurate in this day and age

iron saffron
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Well, there's no "Outsiders" creature type in 5E and that's a bit awkward for outsiders who aren't Celestial or Fiends (see slaadi).

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5E tried to make things simpler but that makes things harder when trying to lock down on specifics...

feral lintel
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Which goes to show simplicity and homogenizing (cant spell it) isnt the best

magic jackal
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*Homogenizing

feral lintel
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Thank you

iron saffron
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3.5E and 4E had too many sub-types. Creatures could be Monstrous, Humanoid, and Undead.

vestal vortex
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I've been getting into a lot of the lore recently, part of the reason is MrRhexx's videos about the lore

flint summit
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Current year is 1492 dr correct?

vestal vortex
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I am also now convinced that most people, while they may have "read" the books about races, classes, and monsters, may not remember or pay attention to certain parts of the lore. To directly quote from a notation that left an editor's remark in Volo's Guide to Monsters (an editor who would exist within the Forgotten Realms setting and not a real-life editor)

"Let me be fair. The lad means well and has done well, better than expected. Some of what's in this book is true, and can even be trusted."

That's right, on Page 5 it directly states that SOME of the book can be true and trusted, but clearly it's not meant to be taken literally for everything.

I still get why people are mad about the lore and it being changed, but I think the lore for the non-playable monster races will (hopefully) stay mostly the same given the success and popularity of Baldur's Gate 3. I think the lore for the player characters is changing which is a good thing since the Yuan-ti lore just didn't include slavery, it had cannibalism being part of their rituals.

sharp owl
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Although that'd be when the adventure starts

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For example, Waterdeep: Dragon Heist is stated to be set during 1492, but if you choose the winter season you could feasibly play out into 1493

flint summit
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I see

sharp owl
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Ah, the furthest year might be 1494

flint summit
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I'm guessing in the upcoming edition its going to be the 1500s

sharp owl
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There's no upcoming edition

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And order adventures are published doesn't follow the chronological order of the year they're set

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For example, Tomb of Annihilation was published after Lost Mine of Phandelver but is set the year before
Phandelver and Below is still set in the same year as Lost Mine of Phadelver, but is the most recent adventure

flint summit
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Confusing stuff

sharp owl
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Only if you make the assumptions that

  1. Dates matter (they don't because adventures aren't canonical with each other)
  2. Publication order matters (it doesn't, they set adventures whenever suits the adventure)
flint summit
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Understandable

vestal vortex
# sharp owl Only if you make the assumptions that 1. Dates matter (they don't because advent...

The 5E D&D team struggles with canon for good reasons. They want the world to feel deep and real, and to have events matter. Simultaneously, they don’t want us to pick up a product and feel like it is out of date, or that we must play it in a certain order. The world should feel accessible and flexible, easily fitting a DM’s needs.

5E products have varying approaches to balancing these conflicting needs. Some products bear no dates at all. Others hide a date in some hard-to-find place, or the date can be inferred. Some products have a clearly stated date. And some products have incorrect date references! In several products, designers can’t help but include fun nods to previous adventures. Those elements enrich the adventures, at the cost of forcing a timeline.

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2020/04/09/the-official-timeline-for-the-forgotten-realms-and-its-adventures/

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I feel this quote sums things up best

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I do feel like BG3 will have an impact on canon given the popularity, and I feel the upcoming Vecna adventure will also impact canon in some way

sharp owl
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Surely it'd make more sense to ping the person asking the questions?

plucky fiber
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I assume they ping you so it's clear that they are adding on top of what you already said. Which makes sense as an idea but the way pings work it would make more sense to ping the other person

flint summit
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Also
Another question
Will the many arrows orc tribe ever launch a grand invasion on faerun

sharp owl
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That's not really within the scope of the channel

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This channel is for discussing lore, ie what has been published as to have happened

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Not really for speculating on what could happen (which is literally anything)

reef coral
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Anybody else remember The Lost Mine of Phandelver? Whatever happened to that?

crude blaze
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It’s still around and fairly popular

spark haven
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You'll have to be a little more specific

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Yeah, it still exists, and it's receiving expansion/updates

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I haven't read the new stuff so I'm not sure where exactly it falls

sharp owl
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It's a #dnd-discussion question if you're curious about Lost Mines and how it relates to Phandelver and Below

grim siren
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furthest year in Faerun 5e is 1496 DR Year of the Duplicitous Courtier

that is for the adventure The Orrery of the Wanderer found in the Acqusitions Incorporated book. The year was provided the writer https://x.com/TychoBrahe/status/1148315665511485440?s=20

The furthest Year in all of Realms Canon is 1600 DR The Year of Unseen Enemies as explored in the excellent novel Dawnbringer by Samantha Henderson

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The dates of adventures sadly in 5e are an afterthought. Timelines of a setting that has always moved forward has been jumping around in the same two decades now with little rhyme and reason. The adventures do reference each other

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characters from one adventure can be featured or talked about in another. And sometimes the dates aren't even internally consistent with themselves. A clear example is Baldur's Gate Descent into Avernus. The Gazetter for Baldur's Gate lists the year as 1492. BG3 which is set after DiA is set in 1492. But the adventure states 50 years after 1444DR

Well..... that would make it 1494 DR. Which is unsupported everywhere else.

grave blade
normal pewter
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Is there an interesting lore reason that a Kender would want to be a cleric pre-cataclysm

iron saffron
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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Kender#Religion

Some kender believed that in the afterlife evil beings were damned to be bored for eternity. Unlike many other intelligent species, kender did not fear death and considered it the start of a new, grand adventure. Generally, they respected and recognized all deities to avoid hurting the gods' feeling, but worshiped Branchala, Chislev, Mishakal, Gilean, and Fizban the Fabulous of Krynnspace

normal pewter
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Perfect, thanks

blazing depot
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What usually happens in a deal between mortal and devil that makes the mortal go to the Nine Hells once its over?

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what happens to a devil when it breaks its own deal?

iron saffron
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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Devil#Gaining_Credits

Faustian Pacts
Faustian pacts were considered the most effective tool in the devils' arsenal to corrupt mortals. While copies for both parties existed, the devil gave the mortal's copy only when pressed on the issue. The mortal's blood was used for signature. There were two kinds of contracts that were made with mortals. The devils called them Pact Certain and Pact Insidious, but only among themselves for they were aware that the names sounded too ominous in mortal ears.

The Pact Certain was a contract that the devils favored, because it was fast. The mortal immediately handed over his or her soul to Baator on death for some services. Barring proving that the pact was signed under some form of duress like threat of torture, these pacts' terms were impossible to adjudicate.

The Pact Insidious was a bit different. Here, a mortal and a devil agreed upon exchanging services. Namely, the devil provided the mortal with something and the mortal had to act in some manner that the devil wanted to. It was possible to make multiple follow-up contracts that gave the receiving mortals more benefits in return of additonal behaviors it had to follow. Failing to act in such manner meant that the mortal lost the contract's benefits. Agreeing to such a Pact Insidious in itself was not an act that shackled one's soul to Baator, but acting in ways that were specified within the contract or contracts meant that one acted in ways that put him or her ever closer to reach Baator on death. Discussing the issue with others was impossible for mortals because a clause that was in every Pact Insidious was that forbade the option of discussing the contract's content with other people.

blazing depot
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this helps a lot. thank you

thorny phoenix
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Do echoes of the same dragon from different worlds tend to have the same name? I know Fizban's is showing many possible similarities and differences of dragon's echoes but afaik no mention of names.

feral lintel
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They dont have to have the same name

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They dont have to have the same personality or appearance either

thorny phoenix
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Alright, I know about the latter but I didn't get any mention of the names in Fizban's and I believe echoes are a new thing introduced by Fizban's.

feral lintel
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Thats because there are so many multiverses that the echo can be in, and thus an almost infinite number of names

magic jackal
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Fizban is an Echo of Bahamut, the names are different.

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There you go

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Also I mean, a name just a name.

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Most of the time names are heavily dependent on context, like language and region of origin etc., for dragons I am sure that's no exception, so I'd imagine the names are likely not the same either.

thorny phoenix
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You've got a point. Makes sense.

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I'm trying to dig deeper into Ashardalon. FR wiki doesn't mention much about him. There is a mention in TftYP (Sunless Citadel) and Fizban's about him in 5e. Is he from Greyhawk? Is there any more information about him than those in FR wiki?

iron saffron
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The FR wiki cites the source materials.

magic jackal
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I believe Ashardalon originates in the Forgotten Realms, it's not on the FR Wiki though.

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In the 4e Draconomicon it cites that he and his mate originally hunted in "The Golden Plain", which is a location in the Forgotten Realms, albeit, not a well-known one.

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Furthermore, "The Golden Plain" is a generic enough name it may not refer to the same location Ashardalon allegedly once hunted.

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The Yawning Portal book references it as relatively setting agnostic, and from what I can tell, so is the 3e printing of the adventure of The Sunless Citadel from what I can tell.

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3e's default setting was Greyhawk so I assume he was originally intended to be from Greyhawk, but sources differ.

thorny phoenix
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On the same note, it is mentioned in the Sunless Citadel that he rampaged a lifeless area called the Ashen Plain. I couldn't find any mention of the Ashen Plain anywhere.

magic jackal
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Likely a rename of the area that was once named "The Golden Plain"

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can't keep calling it "The Golden Plain" after it's been turned to an ashen wasteland.

feral lintel
iron saffron
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"The Golden Plain" is a marketing ploy to attract tourists.

thorny phoenix
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That is very true. I would expect to see the Ashen Plain entry on FR wiki though if The Golden Plain is originally from the Forgotten Realms.

magic jackal
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Eh.

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It's not on Greyhawk Wiki either.

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The Golden Plain is also just an extremely generic name.

feral lintel
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[Non dscript plain]

agile merlin
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The Big Ol Plot of Land, Very Pretty to Look At

jagged apex
magic jackal
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No I know that, the context for his origination or lack thereof in the Forgotten Realms is not present on the Wiki.

jagged apex
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ah

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his main thing in 5e, outside of the tab in fizban's, is the rumors and legends of a fortress of his on a distant world, and that he did not have a presence on toril

magic jackal
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Check Yawning Portal, the reprint of the Sunless Citadel contextualizes a potential origin for him on Toril.

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It's not clear cut.

jagged apex
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my guess is assuming it still exists in the 5e continuity, he likely is still set up in the "bastion of unknown souls", though they have yet to do much if anything with him, his mention in fizban's did basically established he still exists in some capcity in the 5e continuity somewhere out in the multiverse

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else for the time being we have to make do with comparing and contrasting prior lore from editions past and speculation

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if there is an origin to him i presume it would be in 3e where he first was introduced or at least stated out, cited as being in "Bastion of Broken Souls." on page 40 according to the wiki

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unless he had simply been introduced as a threat in the there and now to where people were more concerned in stopping him rather than learning where he is from

magic jackal
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I think you must've missed the prior conversation

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we discussed all of this.

jagged apex
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ah, srry

meager lotus
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I'm wondering about something. Is the existence of Eilistraee common knowledge at all in Faerûn, post Second Sundering? Reading through chunks of her wiki page and that of the church of Eilistraee, she doesn't seem to have many places of worship, most of which are groves, meadows, and abandoned sites, she's typically only worshipped by Seldarine Drow, which is a relatively small demographic of people (I think?), and she only interacts with a few of the other gods.

grim siren
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There was outside of Lore reasons Eilistraee does no have a lot of information. Like a leaked email from Chris Perkins from 4e that wanted her completely removed.

Obviously this has changed but a purposeful near decade halt in her development and the development of "Good Drow" will leave its mark Even though nothing has stopped good drow since 1e can leave its mark.

Link to Tweet. https://x.com/brianrjames/status/1471665847735250944?s=20

That email is over 10 years old and the idea of Good Aligned Drow has shifted tremendously since then.

This was thankfully one of the decisions reversed in the Second Sundering.

Source: Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes

Following her return her followers spread the news with fervor. Her temple in Waterdeep called the Dancing Haven was made because of reports of seeing her dance between Waterdeep and Amphail. This endeavor is supported by the Harpers.

Source: Death Masks by Ed Greenwood.

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More info below

She has also be retroactively added worshippers in the likes of the Aevendrow in Callidae.

Source: Way of the Drow Trilogy by RA Salvatore.

She even has partial control of the Weave as granted to her by Mystra. She is not alone in that and many gods with magical tendices have slices of Weave. Like Azuth. This was done to ensure something like the spell plague never happened again.

Source: Spellstorm by Ed Greenwood

Trelasarra Zuind is currently working to rebuild the Promenade the center of the Dark Maiden's faith.

Source: Adventures in the Forgotten Realms Magic Set

So is she famous? Not as Famous as like Lathander. But her popularity is returning.

jagged apex
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and with it, people somewhat more likely to give a drow the benefit of the doubt, within reason of course

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though even then, is relatively so, cuz toril is still rather well, racist for lack of a better term even now, at least far as i am aware canonically

agile merlin
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What D&D setting that's been around since the Advanced days isn't a little racist by default?

iron saffron
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That's not a lore question.

wicked stone
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Where can find Lore?

iron saffron
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What lore are you curious about?

wicked stone
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Everything.

iron saffron
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Be more specific. Which setting?

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There's 50 years of D&D lore.

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Taps channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

wicked stone
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Lets start with Mind Flayers

iron saffron
agile merlin
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I think they're more or less considered an endangered race, but they used to rule over a massive intergalactic empire

median spade
iron saffron
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D&D novels tend to be set at specific eras (editions).

wicked stone
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I have been reading the Drizzt novels. I think i have learned go good amount about the Drow and Lolth

median spade
shrewd bobcat
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Is there any equivalent of Eros/Cupid in D&D?

iron saffron
median spade
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Why did they add the Olympian pantheon into DnD?

iron saffron
shrewd bobcat
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There isn't a page for Eros

iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

shrewd bobcat
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And yes, D&D is just a Hogepodge of all Mythologies, so they threw everyone in

iron saffron
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Probably because Aphrodite already has the love portfolio.

shrewd bobcat
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Not like several gods don't already share the same portfolios..
Some even within the same pantheons

iron saffron
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Like which one?
Portfolios and domains are two different things.

shrewd bobcat
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Kiputytto and Talona come to mind.

iron saffron
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Kiputytto is dead.

shrewd bobcat
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yeah, now! But at one time, they were both alive and had the same portfolio of Disease
Which was the reason they fought

agile merlin
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Are there any extant magocracies in Flanaess?