#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 41 of 1

valid salmon
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Well, my issue is that we've heard time and time again that the weave and Mystra are tightly linked, but now we're hearing that the weave exists in all these other places too, but Mystra doesn't necessarily. So we're somehow ending up with a wave without Mystra, it would seem. Which shouldn't make sense, and the weave apparantly needs Mystra to maintain it.

magic jackal
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Magic exists everywhere, it's called the Weave in the Forgotten Realms, Mystra maintains it in the Forgotten Realms because that's how the structure of the Cosmology of the FR works, but not every place has the same structure.

valid salmon
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Raw magic exists everywhere, this was clear before. It's now being said that the weave also exists everywhere.

magic jackal
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"The Weave" is the name the FR has for Magic, other places probably call it different things, but for simplicity's sake we as players just call it "The Weave".

magic jackal
valid salmon
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Yeah.

magic jackal
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And it isn't Mystra in every setting.

valid salmon
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My issue is why does the weave need Mystra to maintain it in FR, but not in other places?

magic jackal
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The spellcasters of the Forgotten Realms call it the Weave and recognize its essence as the goddess Mystra, but casters have varied ways of naming and visualizing this interface.
This, literally just this.

crude blaze
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Yeah, like I believe Exandria uses leylines as the source of magic in their world

valid salmon
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Leylines also exist in FR, I'm quite sure..

magic jackal
grim siren
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Because the setting was created with her in mind.

magic jackal
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At a certain point you're just asking "Why" with no answer other than "It was created that way"

valid salmon
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I suppose I'll take that.

modest badger
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I get what Lord Fire is saying though.
So 'The Fabric of Magic' is Multiversal.
'the weave' is FR's name for it, and in FR, Mystra needs to maintain it.
So it feels odd that there's not that relationship with'The Fabric' in other settings (especially as this concept came from FR first). But in this case, in FR the Weave needs Mystra, but in other settings 'The Fabric' (offbrand weave dndLol ) does not

magic jackal
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I mean, Dark Sun does kinda explore what happens when there isn't someone whose job it is to maintain the weave and corral its misuse.

grim siren
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And its one of the whole themes of the setting

modest badger
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And this concept of 'The Weave' / 'The Fabric' wasn't multiversal in earlier editions (least.. not so much). I know AD&D had a different explanation for magic in the base game. Can't recall how 3.5 treated it as 3.5 began leaning into FR, so might have began implying the weave was more 'core'

iron saffron
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What was Greyhawk's explanation of the source of magic?

valid salmon
modest badger
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If you go with Greyhawk being the main setting of AD&D, so AD&D rules are Greyhawk rules unless stated otherwise, here is how magic was described in general:

All magic and cleric spells are similar in that the word sounds, when combined into whatever patterns are applicable, **are charged with energy from the Positive or Negative Material Plane. When uttered, these sounds cause the release of this energy, which in turn triggers a set reaction. **The release of the energy contained in these words is what causes the spell to be forgotten or the writing to disappear from the surface upon which it is written.
The triggering action draws power from some plane of the multiverse. Whether the spell is an abjuration conjuration, alteration, enchantment, or whatever, there is a flow of energy - first from the spell caster, then from some plane to the area magicked or enspelled by the caster. The energy flow is not from the caster per se, it is from the utterance of the sounds, each of which is charged with energy which is loosed when the proper formula and/or ritual is completed with their utterance. This power then taps the desired plane (whether or not the spell user has any idea of what or where it is) to cause the spell to function. It is much like plugging into a heater; the electrical outlet does not hold all of the electrical energy to cause the heater to function, but the wires leading from it, ultimately to the power station, bring the electricity to the desired location.
-1e DMG p40

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But that is 1e. I feel like 3.5 didn't treat it that way, but.... might go wading into the 3.5 books later. I might drown.

valid salmon
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Don't drown. Stay safe.

valid salmon
modest badger
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Also in Greyhawk, magic was fading. Boccob was the main god of magic, but couldn't control it. I believe the implication was it was fading because not enough people were being creative with it- weren't making new spells and inventions.

valid salmon
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A ridiculous notion of course, all of the new spells were being made in 1e.

modest badger
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That technology killed the radio store magic by drawing too much attention from it.

modest badger
valid salmon
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I was making a little joke. :)
Though, I believe most of the caster named spells are meant to be from around then, yes? Like Melf's acid arrow and minute meteor, yes?

modest badger
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I talked a bit about this up here. COuld repost it if it helps.

modest badger
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Only Tasha's hideous laughter wasn't if I recall, and instead named after the little girl who wrote the letter to gygax inspiring the spell.

valid salmon
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I just wasn't exactly sure on the timeline of it.

valid salmon
severe storm
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How influential to the history of FR are giants? Was there any big wars they had? I know in Eberron they had a big war in the early days, but wanted to know what to look up for giants

unkempt merlin
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The FR also had a war between giants and dragons

robust swallow
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Giants had a huge influence. Badumbum.

tired granite
jagged apex
tired granite
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that's a good name for that war

eager bay
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Hello I'm new here

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In dnd, is there a lore about demon "harvesting" souls to nourish themselves? Like people with healing magic or winedndLol

iron saffron
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Demons don't need to eat nor do they harvest souls.
Evil mortals' souls become larva, which can be turned in manes or lemures.

Fiends will sometimes eat larva not for nurishment but the pleasure of consuming a petitioner (aka soul of deceased mortal).
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Larva

eager bay
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Thanks for the info

tired granite
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In the Forgotten Realms, who would make suitable champions/representatives of Talos, Umberlee, and Auril? Looking to set up one for each as rivals/opponents of a Triton Tempest Cleric who worships Thassa, from the Theros setting

iron saffron
tired granite
iron saffron
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The FR wiki is probably the best D&D wiki, even for stuff not found in the Forgotten Realms / Toril.

spark haven
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Not in recent editions to the best of my knowledge

feral lintel
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Dangit

sharp owl
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Any sort of connection between Earth and the settings of D&D has been eschewed in lore

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The most we get are easter eggs and meta-level nods, such as some of the magical trinkets in Lost Laboratory of Kwalish (which itself is an homage to Journey to the Barrier Peaks, which was saturated with such references)

sharp owl
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The Weave is the name used on Toril for the layer/field/dimension of magic that permeates all D&D settings

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Earth is not a D&D setting

modest badger
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If asking for in universe lore on the state of magic on Earth there is some kinda.
mentioned in Polyhedron #21, 1983, when talking about an alternate world used for another game setting (Heroes Challenges):

"... [the] action takes place on Yarth, a place somewhat similar to Oerth, the setting of Greyhawk, et al. It has fewer magical properties than Oerth but more than Earth. It is not impossible that additional works will be contracted for in months to come, action being set on Yarth or perhaps another alternate world, Aerth. On Earth, magic is virtually non-existent. On Uerth, dweomers are weak, chancy things. Yarth has a sprinkling of things magical, and Oerth is pure magic."
But this is a very old source in a more general magazine.

grim siren
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Yeah earth is referenced alot in Toril Lore.

modest badger
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Note that it's mostly pre-4e lore noted, and past that is Greenwood's own comments (which are kinda like Crawford tweets for rules- not official lore for D&D, but a sort of 'Lore as Intended' and guideline)

iron saffron
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Earth-based gods exist in Toril, notably Tyr.
The Mulan people were brought to Toril from Earth via gates by the Imaskar Empire.

grim siren
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The whole Mulhorandi Pantheon came when Ptah begged Ao to let them in to save their people from the Imaskar.

jagged apex
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and tiamat also came from earth or at least an aspect of hers was implied to have come from there via the astral sea/plane way back in the earlier days of the world's history

iron saffron
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Eh... she's just based on the Babylonian mythological god rather than an actual goddess from Earth. The Babylonian Tiamat is a primordial serpent/dragoc goddess of the sea and not a multi-headed dragon as seen in D&D.

spark haven
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Tiamat does evoke echoes of Leviathan/Behemoth

iron saffron
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Gygax took a lot of liberties from mythologic monsters so I wouldn't say Tiamat or Bahumat are directly from Earth just because there were Earth-based gods of the same name.

spark haven
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yeah which would been derived from Tigris-Euphrates based cultures in the early BC era

jagged apex
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i love that ed is hiding in the suit of armor, just is funny to me, also i just love stuff like that where the line between meta and lore becomes near non existant, just makes it so much cooler in my opinion

iron saffron
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Yes, Elgate had already eluded that already.

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Ed was notorious with a lot of self inserts in his Dragon Magazine articles and meeting up with famous NPCs.

modest badger
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Went into Tiamat before as well- She was a five headed dragon 'Evil Queen of Chaotic Dragons' first, then got named Tiamat for reasons???

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And with FR already brining across the 'Babylonian' gods, she got merged with them in FR lore, but also.. very poorly.

jagged apex
# iron saffron Gygax took a lot of liberties from mythologic monsters so I wouldn't say Tiamat ...

given how gods work in dnd, is not too far a stretch for them to be the same beings as those in dnd, even if retroactively, as aspects of a god have sometimes varied quite a bit from one another despite all being the same deity at the end of the day, plus the leway of dnd's earth technically not being are reality and as an alternative one can have some differences to our real world history and myths, which likely is the logic behind other gods that were are part of the likes of celtic, olympian, and other such pantheons

iron saffron
modest badger
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Yep. In 0e's Greyhawk Supplement

jagged apex
iron saffron
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Today I learned...

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0E was before my time.

jagged apex
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wasn't 0e technically what was known as chainmail or is that something else?

modest badger
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0e Greyhawk Supplement, 1975, page 35-37:

DRAGONS: These additional varities of Dragons conform to the typical characteristics of their species except where noted. There is only one King of Lawful Dragons, just as there is only one Queen of Chaotic Dragons (Women's Lib may make whatever they wish from the foregoing).

The Dragon Queen: The Chromatic Dragon is a huge creature with five heads, one of each color of the five Chaotic Dragons. Her body is striped in these same colors, and her tail is that of a Wyvern. She can employ all heads at once, either to breath or cast spells. Her major abode is in a stupendous cavern far beneath the earth. Her guard consists of five dragons, each of largest size, of the five Chaotic types of dragons. Her major aim is to spread evil.

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0e wasn't chainmail, but did refer to chainmail rules. It was D&D at that point.

jagged apex
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one thing i like about tiamat, at least in more modern editions such as 5e, is how she is one of the few gods i know of that have 2 different alignments, seemingly being both lawful evil and chaotic evil simultaneous, makes her more interesting than if they were to split the diff and just make her neutral evil

modest badger
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Chainmail had a fantasy supplement before 0e, and 0e refers back to those rules at time (sometimes meaning you really needed chainmail to play 0e)

sharp owl
modest badger
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Oh no worries, not actually intending to go into mechanics or the like, jsut clarifying the difference between some of the older editions and sources while diving into Tiamat's origins in D&D.

gray ember
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Is Morninglord meant to refer to Lathander himself or his priests? I see one source says one and a second source says another so idk

modest badger
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It is both.
He is The Morninglord and some specialty priests are also known as morninglords.

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For example, in the same source:

A powerful, exuberant god, Lathander (Lah-THANder) is known as the Commander of Creativity and the Morninglord.

Novices in the Lathanderian faith are called the Awakened, and they gain the title of Dawnbringer upon becoming full priests. In ascending order of rank, the titles in general use by the Dawnbringers are: Dawngreeter, Dawnlord (the church does not use feminine form of titles often), High Dawnlord, Dawnmaster, Morninglord, High Morninglord, Mornmaster, High Mornmaster, and Sunrise Lord.
2e, 1996, Faiths & Avatars, p.90-91

jagged apex
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so depends on the continuity or edition you are reffering to it seems

frank yarrow
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Yo. who whould ya'll say is the richest being in all the planes of existences? I know that is hard to measure for certain gods but still.

jagged apex
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the dao are arguably good candidates as is one of the major points of their culture and behavior given the mount of precious metals, minerals, and such they have access to more or less infinite amounts in the plane of earth

frank yarrow
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Ooh interesting. Yeah it's more like sitting wealth. But the value of the minerals would be enormous.

frank yarrow
jagged apex
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material wealth often means little in most cases in the outerplanes

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basically viewing it like real world or mortal economic standards one could argue is a flawed way to look it such a thing

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like one of the only fiends for example that actually value material wealth are the yugoloths

frank yarrow
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I mean some of the gods are still described as greedy. So you whould think a greedy being whould still want some way to measure if they have more then other beings

jagged apex
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most other fiends and extra planar beings value souls and the like far more

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greedy does not = wealth

frank yarrow
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It can. but you are right that it is depend. Tho if it is souls they'd want I'd question if they gods whould bargain amoung each other. Because they moment they do a vlaue is tied to a soul.

jagged apex
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greed in relation to gods and other such beings in dnd is far as i understand it almost always in relation to power

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not really, if anything it be more so via alliances or favors to one another, again conventional economics and gods don't really go together, a soul is more or less priceless for all intensive purposes and depending how you look at it, the gods themselves are made up of millions upon millions of billions of souls

frank yarrow
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Hm. Idk, I'd still think some beings whould trade? thouse alliances are bought on agreements bound by something right? For the good gods maybe word alone is enough but whould the work for the more decietful?

jagged apex
frank yarrow
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Ah true. but that's mostly just that god's domain being related.

jagged apex
frank yarrow
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Yeah for sure this conversation doesn't really apply to like the top dogs more then likely. Technically you could say that the transactions have a material value but the trades at the highest level are too far abstracted from the connected material values.

"If you promise to give me the color blue, I will go to war."

jagged apex
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and incase you are curious, to my knowledge, no the upper planes do not have any sort of similar system nor partake in the soul trade, granted i could be wrong, but to my knowledge nothing i have learned of dnd lore implies either such things

frank yarrow
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I mean what whould they trade, if anything? or whould they all act towards their own goals? How whould they form alliances and such?

jagged apex
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anyone willing to go to war for such silly reasons likely resides on the plane of Acheron already

frank yarrow
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ah true.

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Still I kinda like the idea of the gods trading concepts lol.

jagged apex
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again their interactions are often more rooted in alliances and their own goals, those that do take coin are likely mainly places that see much travel from other planes, including the prime material, even if those of the prime having to be rather powerful to be able to travel to such things, like sigil

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and that is more so among non gods and just other beings, extra planar and otherwise

frank yarrow
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I guess that assumes that most of the alliances are very old right? Like pre-exsisting

jagged apex
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the dead 3 being mortals who became gods

frank yarrow
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right like with the dead 3.. the alliance pre-existed their ascension?

jagged apex
feral lintel
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The dead three are rivals, iirc

jagged apex
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in certain media and continuities they do work together, even post ascension/apotheosis but that would be something for #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers chat if wanting details unless there are other cases that i am just not thinking of

frank yarrow
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ah

jagged apex
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even some pantheons can be alliances of sorts, as is the case with some of the orc gods, such as shargaas who very much does not like gruumsh, despite working with him sometimes and being part of the same pantheon https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shargaas

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some alliances are ways to protect themselves from other gods that are of equal power or greater power, as a god of equal or greater power can kill a god in a way that sticks and take over their portfolio, at least historically, from what i recall was the reason why the gods of fury formed with Talos as basically the boss

eager bay
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I asked in the wrong channel earlier but I was wondering if anyone here might have knowledge on any Adventurer Guilds in the lore? I just wanted to give something a read that's in-depth that has some ranks or something!

jagged apex
grim siren
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The supplement, Gold and Glory for the forgotten Realms is specifically about various mercenary companies across the world

eager bay
feral lintel
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Oh. No not to that level

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The anime and Eastern image of the Adventurer's Guild isnt present in current DnD lore or most settings

eager bay
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Ohhh okay, thanks for the help!

feral lintel
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Np

jagged apex
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more often than not to my knowledge in dnd adventuring is a rare thing done by individuals and or like minded individuals, is way high risk high reward for it to be a common occupation, there is no like massive central originization that all adventurers are part of, that just ain't really a thing in any dnd worlds i am aware of from published materials

feral lintel
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Yeah, not like in anime or light novels.

jagged apex
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plus any world like goblins slayer, would just be a very specific and hyper focused version of what you would see in dnd, just in general from what i know of it, am not an expert on the series i just know of it via pop culture and the like

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SAO and the way it's virtual world of fantasy is a lot closer to what you'd get in a typical dnd world

feral lintel
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Fairly sure its mostly based on DnD tho, just really dark

iron saffron
jagged apex
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but even then it did not have a guild i believe, much like dnd it more so had factions and independant adventurers/people

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but either way a guild is just a term in dnd to my knowledge not anything major or important, so either adventuring companies, factions, or just originizations in general would be what you would be wanting to look for if wanting anything like what you were probably thinking stumps
granted the link i shared earlier is specifically for forgotten realms setting, so if playing in another published setting you will have to see what if any such organizations or factions or what have you may or may not exist in that setting

feral lintel
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Sorry cloud! 🙇‍♂️

jagged apex
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granted the link i shared earlier is specifically for forgotten realms setting, so if playing in another published setting you will have to see what if any such organizations or factions or what have you may or may not exist in that setting

eager bay
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Do petitioners still count as souls?

feral lintel
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In what context

unkempt merlin
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They are souls

eager bay
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Well, more specifically do they count as innocent souls?

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There's an encounter in planescape where the PCs come across basically a baseball game between a team of fiends and a team of celestials for the fate of a soul

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Trying to figure out what exactly that means

feral lintel
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Not sure if this is really a lore question then

eager bay
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Figured it out

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Petitioners no longer count as souls

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Which tbh makes sense, since spells like revivify become impossible short of a wish spell

iron saffron
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Petitioner is a term for a mortal soul in the Outer Planes. They have yet to make it to their final leg of their journey in the "afterlife" where their god receives them. For example, a LG petitioner will become a lantern archon while a CE soul will become a larva (which in turn may be turned into manes demon).
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Petitioner

Petitioner was the term applied to a dead person's soul that made it in some way or another to a plane of existence other than the Material Plane.

eager bay
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Also, they don't explicitly turn into some other creature

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They do however no longer remain a soul upon reaching their destination

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So for instance a petitioner of the outlands wouldn't really be up for grabs as a soul, because they're now a celestial or fiend

iron saffron
eager bay
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And yes, that is true in a few cases in 5e

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But for the most part the individuals soul becomes a celestial or fiend and takes on an idealized form of themselves

iron saffron
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I have access to it but I can't be bothered.

eager bay
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At least in any good to nuetral aligned plane

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And I know because I have my copy open to the section on petitioners

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Like, tbc I'm saying we're both right.

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In cases like the outlands and ysgard, they become ideal versions of themselves and are basically treated as celestials or fiends

obsidian gate
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the gods ususally live in the outer planes.

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in most settings, there is something preventing gods to interfere too much with mortal affairs, though the how and why differ

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in Forgotten Realms, Ao, the overgod simply forbids the gods to interfere. This rule came after multiple apocalypses caused by gods walking the material plane.

in Exandira, the Divine Gate was created after the gods fought a 100 year long war that killed 2/3 of the population.

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in eberron, the gods are so distant that its not unreasonable to doubt their existence.

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in Theros, Gods walk freely amonst mortals, like the greek gods of myth they were inspired by

iron saffron
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Gods need followers because the more followers they have the more divine power they gain.

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2E introduced avatars and that coincided with FR's Time of Troubles. Basically gods don't need to be in the Material World but send an avatar/aspect to the mortal world. They very rarely do this because it costs them a bit of their divine essence and only do so when something jeopardises their followers (often they would send proxies like angels to do their bid).

obsidian gate
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Clerics in Eberron wield divine magic, but its unclear if it comes from the actual gods they worship

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(though a cleric who beleives in a deity will tell you that it does)

unkempt merlin
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Gods in Eberron aren't even confirmed to actually exist on a meta level either

jagged apex
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that would imply that the two states of being are different for them

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gods in most dnd worlds, are metaphysical and thus extra planar beings of incredible power

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and even when they die, the norm is their corpse drifts as a chunk of rock like substance in the astral or ethereal plane, forget which technically, believe is astral, but it is honestly closer to a divine comma rather than death as it is in the traditional sense for a mortal being of flesh and blood

iron saffron
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In the 3.5E Deities and Demigods book (and the 3.5E FR Faiths and Pantheons book), deities are the Outsider creature type in their statblock.

jagged apex
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which more or less makes their being more metaphysical, much like the outerplanes themselves

gilded lava
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For the spell planar ally, which has a god (or other) send a "a celestial, an elemental, or a fiend" loyal to it you aid you, what kind of creature could be associated with and loyal to Mystra that she would send?

jagged apex
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else all gods technically can send angels as in dnd angels are servants of the gods

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and i see no reason why mystra could not call on those her past incarnations could to aid her followers or others she wishes to have aided on her behalf

gloomy brook
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Do drows usually speak in Undercommon or Elvish?

iron saffron
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Both.

gloomy brook
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Is there a language they speak the most? Like, drows in Menzoberranzan?

unkempt merlin
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They speak a combo of the two

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As in, they will use words from both in one sentence kind of way

iron saffron
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They also have a special sign language when they want to communicate to each other without others overhearing them.

jagged apex
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likely it depends on whom they are speaking to

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as i imagine undercommon is the used in the underdark the same ways common is on the surface world, so if i had to guess, much like any other kind of elf, elvish likely would be their native tongue

crimson nacelle
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I'm sorry for being new, but are Far Realms real in dnd lore or is it homebrew? Asking after Dungeon Dad's vids

sharp owl
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The Far Realms is an official part of D&D lore

crimson nacelle
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Whoah, this is epic! And how do you can be lost in them lore-wise?

crimson nacelle
sharp owl
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And how do you can lost in them lore-wise?
????

crimson nacelle
sharp owl
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The same way you get lost anywhere; end up there without knowing exactly where you are

crimson nacelle
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Okay, thanks for clarifying!

modest badger
# crimson nacelle I mean, how can you get lost in them in lore, sorry for bad english

Reaching thr Far Realm is meant to be difficult:

The Far Realm has no well-known portals, or at least none that are still viable. Ancient elves once opened a vast portal to the Far Realm within a mountain called Firestorm Peak, but their civilization imploded in bloody terror and the portal's location-even its home world-is long forgotten. Lost portals might still exist, marked by an alien magic that mutates the area around them.
DMG p.68

This very closely resembles 3e's Manual of the Planes, p.212:

There are no known portals to the Far Realm, or at least none that are still viable. Ancient elves once pierced the boundary of eons with a vast portal to the Far Realm, but their civilization imploded in bloody terror and the portal's location is long-forgotten. But other portals might exist. Other methods of reaching the Far Realm include traveling to time's beginning or end or finding the true Dreamheart past the Portal of Sleep.

The dreamheart is the core of the Region of Dreams from 3e's Manual of Planes (p.204)- the plane you go to when you sleep.

Gates of Firestorm Peak was a 2e module, where in ancient elves built a gate that could travel between worlds, and then built 'The Vast Gate' which they thought would be able to reach every world available, when powered by a magic surge.
And it did- and in doing so connected to the Far Realm, which turned out to be a very bad thing.

Dragon Magazine #330 has an article called 'Enter the Far Realm' and also introduces 'Cerebortic blots':

Sometimes the Far Realm touches the world and when such contact occurs, reality is stained. When the stain persists, such locations are sometimes referred to as cerebrotic blots

Within a Cerebortic blot, reality becomes warped and at it's core is a portal to the Far Realm.

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So in older lore, possible to reach it through dreams (but with a lot of effort), or perhaps by being impacted by a cerebortic blot, or finding an ancient portal so on. Up to the DM.

crimson nacelle
potent hatch
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are there any gods that are highly against war by either ending them quickly and/or brutally to avoid extended suffering or stopping them from happening in the first place?

iron saffron
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Which setting?

potent hatch
# iron saffron Which setting?

dm's homebrew setting and is allowing us to use gods from any setting as long as we check with them first to make sure it doesn't mess with any lore too much

iron saffron
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Ask your DM then because it's a homebrew setting and this doesn't follow official lore. Lore is what the DMs make at their table.

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Typically gods don't directly meddle with the affairs of mortals. A god of peace will have to contend with the god of war.

solid mica
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what is the difference between a plane and a realm?

grim siren
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A realm can be within a plane

solid mica
sharp owl
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Realm is not a rigidly defined term, it just means a region of some description

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A plane on the other hand is an area of the multiverse with it's own defined rules and properties that are distinct from other planes

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For example, the Plane of Elemental Fire is distinct from all other planes by the nature of how reality works

solid mica
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just for example

sharp owl
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The Nine Hells of Baator is a plane, whereas Avernus could be thought of as a Realm (although it's formally referred to as a layer)

#

And within Avernus, you could totally have realms under the control of different warlords

solid mica
#

so a plane is more of the bigger picture, alright got it. My world isn’t really confined to traditional lore but I just wanted to get a sense on what the difference is. Thanks

sharp owl
#

Plane is more a dimension with it's own set of unique rules

obsidian gate
#

Realm basically means the same as in the real world. Basically a large area that has some things in common

jagged apex
#

plane is always though a plane of existence which in the case of the outer planes and i think maybe the inner planes, are canonically infinite in scale, at least as i understand them to be

calm crest
#

Not to be confused with the Realm, the setting of the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon.

magic jackal
#

Not to be confused with The Forgotten Realms either, which is also a name for a setting.

orchid oxide
#

Speaking of this, is there supposed to be an overall ruler of amt. Celestia?

grim siren
#

That would be the Celestial Hebdomad.

#

They are basically the angel versions of Arch devils

orchid oxide
#

Do lawful good deities take orders from them?

iron saffron
#

No.

orchid oxide
#

Interesting

#

Thank you

iron saffron
#

It's like the mayor of Washington DC can't give orders to the President of the USA.

orchid oxide
#

I’m just trying to figure how to mesh plane lore with my setting deities.

iron saffron
cobalt lark
#

I know it’s meant to be thematic but is there a specific reason why druids cannot use metal armor? Does it directly demagic them? Is it just considered shameful to wear something unnatural?

feral lintel
#

They wish to maintain their connection to nature

tired granite
modest badger
# cobalt lark I know it’s meant to be thematic but is there a specific reason why druids canno...

Oe:

Druids are able to employ the following sorts of weapons: Daggers, sickle or crescent-shaped swords, spears, slings, and oil. They may wear armor of leather, and use wooden shields. They may not use metallic armor.

1e:

The more powerful druidic spells, as well as their wider range of weaponry, make up for the fact that druids are unable to use any armor or shields other than leather armor and wooden shields (metallic armor spoils their magical powers)
(...)
Druids can be visualized as medieval cousins of what the ancient Celtic sect of Druids would have become had it survived the Roman conquest

For me the no metal thing started off as what I percieve to be an 'aesthetic' choice. Druids are based on the druids recorded in roman reports, so they were the mistletoe and sickle waving, animal skin wearing 'barbarians'. Metal armour was too high tech for them.

In 2e they tried to give an actual lore reason:

Armor and Weapons Permitted. Most druids wear natural armor (leather) and use wooden shields. Other armors, especially metallic kinds, are forbidden to all druids. Most of the weapons permitted to druids of a particular branch resemble tools used in herding, hunting, and farming, or hold symbolic meaning to the druid. For instance, the curved scimitar and khopesh represent both the sickle used in the harvest and the crescent moon, which stands for birth, death, and rebirth in the cycle of Nature. The standard druid can use the following weapons: club, sickle, dart, spear, dagger, scimitar, sling, and staff (optional: scythe). Use of metallic weapons and tools usually remains unrestricted, but local availability can prove a problem, especially in areas like the arctic tundra.

  • The complete book of druids, 2e, pages 8-9
#

Nowdays druids get these proficiencies:

Weapons: Clubs, daggers, darts, javelins, maces, quarterstaffs, scimitars, sickles, slings, spears
Note how similar they are to the older edition restrictions? With the only assumed metal ones being scimitars and sickles (curved blades).

#

And this is pointed out in the SAC Porkchop linked above, explaining it's partly design choice, partly storybased and lore, and not really game breaking to ignore:

Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but chooses not to.

compact frost
#

So, why did Kas the Betrayer betray Vecna?

#

Like is there ever a “true” reason?

magic jackal
#

Allegedly his own sword persuaded him to. Other reasons could be that he's simply extremely ambitious.

feral lintel
#

Yeah, there is no defined answer

crude blaze
#

Could always head out to Ravenloft and ask Kas yourself

feral lintel
#

Wait, he's in Ravenloft? I thought he died

rough nova
#

Is Kas the one that had mask in his sword?

iron saffron
rough nova
#

The god of deception Mask my b

thorny rock
#

Is anyone familiar with the wildlife in the frostweald? I'm tryna make my character's backstory accurate to the ingame lore

unkempt merlin
#

not too many things have been specifically defined, but ice elementals, basilisks, and at least some fey are present in the area

#

anything that lives in forests and/or cold regions is likely

thorny rock
#

So beyond that, they just have regular winter forest wildlife, like elk and wolves?

feral lintel
#

Aye

#

Oh oh! Remorahzes

#

Giant ice centipedes

thorny rock
#

Bruh, I accidentally made my character born there

unkempt merlin
thorny rock
#

Would Osyluths be able to travel there, or are they limited to the nine hells?

feral lintel
#

Bone devils arent really stuck in the Nine Hells

#

Well, as much as most devils are, or like Tiamat is

raven cradle
#

Hey dose anyone here like h. P. Love craft and is willing to read some lore i have for a dnd campaign im starting

#

And ofc give me notes to

iron saffron
loud totem
#

Is telling a fey your name any different from giving it?

feral lintel
#

Not really IMO

loud totem
#

You sure? I figure that would make for a fun loophole.

feral lintel
jagged apex
# feral lintel Wait, he's in Ravenloft? I thought he died

more like undied, as to my knowledge the same event that swept him and vecna away, turned kas into some sort of undead being, i think a vampire, some details are a bit fussy but i believe it had something to do with the plane of ash

jagged apex
jagged apex
jagged apex
#

but seems it especially would be unlikely for a bone devil to typically leave the hells given their role in infernal society and how the normal desire of devils is to climb up the ranks to be promoted to more powerful forms

wet flower
#

I have a lore question. Is the existence of AO common knowledge?

tired granite
#

Apparently not

rough nova
#

No he’s not really even worshiped

#

Nor does he want to be

cloud fulcrum
#

What does "prime" material plane mean? Are there several material planes?

iron saffron
cloud fulcrum
#

Is kind of like earth 616 from Marvel? Its the main world of the multiverse?

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Yes, at least in the past editions cosmology

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

2E Spelljammer changed it where worlds are in the same Material Plane

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

I already linked that above

jagged apex
#

ah

#

since the outerplanes are the effectively afterlives for mortals, it is reasonable, easy, and not inaccurate to compare the prime material plane to basically being the mortal world

iron saffron
#

Pre 2E Spelljammer each world has its own Material Plane

jagged apex
#

but that had not been the case for a long time, and remains the case in 5e

iron saffron
cloud marten
#

okay so I happened to remember that one DnD movie titled Book of Vile Darkness so I am wondering what it actually is in DnD lore

#

I seem to remember seeing that it's part of actual DnD lore

feral lintel
#

The book of Vile Darkness is similar to the Darkhold in Doctor Strange, its a book filled with evil rites

cloud marten
#

ah I see

obsidian gate
#

the book of vile darkness is an item too in 5e, and in earlier editions, they even published something under the name

cloud marten
#

how it was made and when?

obsidian gate
#

its basically the "necronomicon" of dnd

cloud marten
#

ah right ofc there is wiki article for that

feral lintel
#

There a wiki article for almost everything lol

cloud marten
#

oh it was created by Vecna

eager bay
#

Do you think the shade enclave was too powerful?

tired granite
iron saffron
#

That's a pre-god Vecna mind you.

cloud marten
#

ah right

#

also seems to me like he created initial version that others have expanded on

thorny hound
#

what's the blade of choice for Drow? as in what's the most common type of melee weapon would you see Drow with

feral lintel
#

Shortswords

cloud marten
#

scimitar maybe

tired granite
feral lintel
#

The Drow statblock uses a shortsword

thorny hound
feral lintel
#

The elites get rapiers, and the driders get longswords

feral lintel
thorny hound
#

so they do

tired granite
#

The Forgotten Realms books, particularly those featuring Drizzt, repeatedly display drow as preferring dual-wielding with long blades

#

scimitars, longswords, rapiers etc

#

several characters make mention of how difficult it is, compared to the usual long blade + short blade (e.g. rapier + dagger)

thorny hound
#

I'd imagine that "dancing" with 2 scimitars would be quite a feat

cloud marten
#

Drizzt does that all the time but then again he is Drizzt

feral lintel
#

He also has a black panther

thorny hound
#

there is a reason why he is most famous Drow

cloud marten
#

he is very much cut above rest and legendary hero

tired granite
feral lintel
#

By definition, yeap

thorny hound
#

what exactly are Nautoloids? like Mindflyier Nautloids, besides being ships

#

are they alive?

#

like a gargantuan sized living being?

feral lintel
#

I dont think they are sentient at least

iron saffron
#

No

tired granite
#

they are spelljammer vessels built into/around the shells of some great beast

iron saffron
#

Never heard they were created from beasts' shells.

tired granite
#

honestly I can't remember where I learned that, so odds are it's wrong - I think it came up during/after a BG3 discussion where someone asked the same thing

iron saffron
tired granite
#

I don't think any of the current mind flayer lore mentions giant snails so yeah I don't know

modest badger
#

https://spelljammer.fandom.com/wiki/Nautiloid
For some wiki information on it. I also can't recall seeing any lore on the ships origins.
BG3 does imply it being a sort of 'living' ship to an extent, with some of it's functions and parts being somewhat bio-organic.

tired granite
#

"Each nautiloid is constructed from the shell of a massive snail harvested from a world as yet unknown"

boreal ivy
#

I'm trying to familiarize myself with the regions and lore... Any reading recommendations?

iron saffron
#

Which setting?

jagged apex
jagged apex
glacial jacinth
#

Question that has me intrigued, where do Solar, Lunar, Time, and Moonstone dragons fall in the chromatic/metallic/gem categories?

feral lintel
#

No, they arent part of the big three

mental cloak
feral lintel
#

They're seperate from the chromatics, metallics, and gems

glacial jacinth
#

Interesting

feral lintel
#

Fairly sure they now also get tags of what category they are in the newer versions

glacial jacinth
feral lintel
#

They usually appear in their statblocks like "[Size] Dragon (Chromatic)"

glacial jacinth
#

Ah

feral lintel
#

Only for the newer dragons though. Solar, Lunar, and Moonstones dont have that tag iirc, which means they arent part of the big three

glacial jacinth
#

As I mainly use dnd beyond, I’ve never seen those tags before

feral lintel
#

Oh those tags are in the newer books. Need to buy em

glacial jacinth
#

Ah

#

I buy them but don’t often look in them 😂

jagged apex
#

moonstones are neutral dragons, solar and lunar are spelljammer dragons if going by the sort of extended system used on the wiki

foggy seal
sharp owl
#

Same, they don't have that tag

#

For chromatic, metallic, and gem dragons, there are 5 variations across five age categories. Nothing else falls under those groups

unkempt merlin
#

All of those dragon types are still classified as true dragons however (alongside a few others)

calm crest
#

Time dragons presumably fall under the planar dragon umbrella in 5e, given the book they were printed in and the lack of epic levels, but were placed in the category of epic dragons along with force and prismatic dragons in their original 3.5 ’zine appearance.

jagged apex
#

granted these are classifications used by the wiki so their officialness is unclear outside of the forgotten realms setting

#

basically those in the epic category are dragons who are comparable in power to the dragon gods despite being mortal, at least historically, even if the average mechanical powers in the editions may not lend them to it, i feel is still valid, as time dragons are to my knowledge both in lore and mechanics are one of the few truely immortal creatures in dnd

jagged apex
#

and it makes sense as to our knowledge we have not gotten anything to suggest or imply the demiplane of time still exists in the current cosmology

#

just cuz a dragon resigns on a plane does not necessarily make them a planar dragon, especially since their nature is rooted more in their abnormal elements as seems to be what makes an epic dragon such a dragon from what i can find "Like other dragons, epic dragons are gigantic, winged, reptilian creatures. The epic dragons fall entirely outside the commonly accepted categories of chromatic and metallic dragons, and may originate on another plane of existence. They are further distinguished from the common dragons described in the Monster Manual by their tremendous size (even at hatching), their longer life span (with corresponding greater increases in power as they age), and their mastery of unusual energy forms."

#

so major factors that make them not planar dragons is their abnormal power and elements, ie the forces imbued in their breath weapon and thus tend to be named after, not to mention much longer lifespans, at least when going by lore, as again epic levels would be a mechanical thing and not really a lore thing

jagged apex
shy nexus
#

"Epic" is a classification based on 3rd edition's post-level 20 "Epic" rules. These dragons start at level 20+, hence they are Epic.

feral lintel
#

5e doesnt have the epic levels anymore though

#

And I dont think they really use the Epic classification anymore

shy nexus
#

The dragons still have 3e stats and the wiki is edition-neutral.

feral lintel
#

Time Dragons got remade in 5e

thorny hound
#

how "good Drow" behave ?

#

or actually how different are they from the "evil ones"

feral lintel
#

Drow are as nuanced as any other race. Their society and culture just usually encourages evil

magic jackal
#

it also doesn't help that drow who abandon lolth are usually hunted down by lolthites and killed for their betrayal

obsidian gate
#

many drow who escape the cult of lolth join with Elistraee, so you could look up what her followers tend to believe in

verbal barn
#

is Ao the most powerful being in the forgotten realms setting?

calm crest
verbal barn
iron saffron
#

Corellon had a divine rank of 19 or 20 (greater god), but not 21+ for overgods.

magic jackal
#

Also it doesn't say they're definitively Overgods, just that some sources think they might be.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, the citations for those overpowers are from 2E sources. It wasn't really until 3.5E Deities & Demigods that the gods had divine ranks with the overgods at rank 21+

calm crest
#

Hence my usage of “possible” and “potentially.” Ao is the obvious choice for most powerful entity in Realmspace, but there might be exceptions depending on which edition or source one is looking at.

thorny hound
#

knowing Drizzt doesn't help at while trying to understand Drow better

magic jackal
#

He very much does, his story is very intertwined with the larger story of the drow.

feral lintel
#

Exactly

jagged apex
# shy nexus "Epic" is a classification based on 3rd edition's post-level 20 "Epic" rules. Th...

again, that is not really the lore reason, the lore reason is more so their great power, longevity, and control over abnormal elements compared to other dragons, the epic levels from back in the day were a mechanical reason, they are not planar dragons as even in their mechanics, their eggs can be on any random plane of existance, so they are not native to any one plane of existence thus are not planar dragons

robust bone
#

I have a question about the Platinum Cadre. I know that it's based in Tymanther and that only Dragonborn are allowed to hold seats of power despite tolerance for other races. But have any non-Dragonborn, specifically Humans, ever been allowed to serve as clerics or paladins in the Cadre?

#

I tried Googling it but couldn't find anything that specifically said non-Dragonborn weren't allowed to join.

iron saffron
robust bone
#

I read that. I know it says it was all dragonborn. I just wanted to know if the Cadre was the type of faction that would be willing to allow non-dragonborn among its ranks.

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

Seems very niche organization specific to Tymanther, which is a place of dragonborn.

feral lintel
#

Wait, Dragonborn dont follow Bahamut?!

robust bone
#

Gotcha. I only ask because I was thinking of making a human paladin that was provisionally accepted into the Platinum Cadre despite the dragonborn-centric views in Tymanther.

sharp owl
feral lintel
#

I knew that much, but the link implied thst theu were against it

robust bone
# feral lintel Wait, Dragonborn dont follow Bahamut?!

Some do. Not all. The dragonborn came from another plane where they were enslaved by dragons. When they arrived in Toril, they assumed the dragons there were all as evil and didn't originally make the distinction between good and evil dragons, nor the dragon gods (Tiamat and Bahamut). But a few religious organizations cropped up when open-minded dragonborn started making the distinction that good dragons existed.

iron saffron
#

In FR lore, dragonborn are from Abeir, the twin planet of Toril.

robust bone
#

Ah. Mistook Abeir for another plane. Not another planet.

feral lintel
#

Ooh... My first dragonborn character would have been an outcast then...

robust bone
#

Well apparently the Platinum Cadre (followers of Bahamut) gained traction in Tymanther due to their efforts.

iron saffron
#

Dragonborn were only introduced as a playable race in 4E hence the retcon they're from Abeir in FR lore.

robust bone
#

So Bahamut worship became moderately acceptable while Tiamat worship was illegal. They

feral lintel
#

Really interesting

flint summit
#

Do human kingdoms go to war much or are they more laid back

sharp owl
#

Depends on

  • setting
  • which kingdoms you're talking about within that setting
  • the current geopolitical climates of those kingdoms
  • what your definition of "much"
#

Not really a question with an answer

flint summit
#

Mainly faerun
The only human kingdom I know is neverwinter on that map

dusk tartan
#

could a charismatic cult leader with enough followers be rased to god hood?

sharp owl
formal sable
#

Can anyone explain in brief the return of Tyr?

sharp owl
#

If you're asking if it's possible for a mortal to become a god, that would depend on setting

dusk tartan
#

forgotten realms

sharp owl
#

It's happened in the following settings

  • Forgotten Realms
  • Theros
  • Exandria
dusk tartan
#

cool.

formal sable
#

I've got a group using Neverwinter as a base location, and I want to give them a bit more than I've been able to find on why and how and in what capacity Tyr has been ressurected

modest badger
#

There really does seem to be only one or two lines on it in SCAG, p.51 and p 132:

Neverember's influence radiates outward from the Protector's Enclave, centered at the Hall of Justice. With Tyr restored to life and his worship returning to prominence, the Lord Protector has moved into a modest, private villa. This sacrifice—and the renewal of Tyr's faith in the previous center of his operations—is only further proof, to some, that Neverember deserves to rule Neverwinter.

When Tyr fell silent and the paladins in his service lost their powers, many turned to other gods such as Torm, but the Kights of Samular stayed true to Tyr. **Their patience was recently rewarded when, upon Tyr's return to the world, many of their dwindling number were invested with the powers of a paladin. **

#

There doesn't seem to be an explanation in 5e. Seems just that they wanted Tyr back so he is.

formal sable
#

Yah, I've found the same...and a lot of blanks left to be filled by DMs....

grim siren
# flint summit Mainly faerun The only human kingdom I know is neverwinter on that map

Wars happen all of the time but less in the west. The Sword Coast is protected by Lord's Alliance, like an EU esque entity.

Head East a bit and things get dicey really fast. The Border Kingdoms is a region not attributted to any singular nation because they are so at war with each other naming on on a map is mostly useless as by the time the map is printed the kingdoms have changed in size.

Further to the East the lands of Rashsmen and Thay are always on the brink of war

The Bloodstone Lands are known for War there are even old modules about it.

The Dales have been at war many times, as have the old Empires of Unther and Mulhorand.

Then there are historic wars like the Tuigan invasion. People from the steppe beyond thay conquering most of East Faerun before being put down by Cormyr (And several thousand Cormyrean allies but who is counting)

Most of Faerun is a relative powder keg. Light the right match and boom.

dusk tartan
#

the fr wiki says that "Tyr managed to return to life during the event known as the Second Sundering, in the 1480s DR."

modest badger
#

Yeah, and the source for that is SCAG pg 51

#

Which is why it's just 'somehow palpatine returned'.
He died, and in SCAG he's alive again, so the wiki has 'Tyr managed to return to life'. And that it had to be during the Second Sundering, because that's the event between 4e and 5e, and described in SCAG p17 summarising events from 1482-1489, which is where SCAG really starts again (1489ish) (5e FR is set 1481+ish)

formal sable
#

So, perhaps my answer to my group is "we don't know, but he's a god...nuff said....the mystery of the gods explains itself."

#

However, you are all a great help and resource, ...thanks!

grim siren
#

The Second Sundering taking place in the inbetween of SCAG and 4e is likely the culprit.

#

There was a period in the Sundering where the gods were mostly silent and many Realms sages point to that moment as when gods were reordered. Basically turning off the computer putting a new CPU in and then turning it back on

modest badger
#

I think the Second Sundering even starts with a dead god coming back and making mayhem:

The first indication of new turmoil came in 1482 DR, when Bhaal, the long-dead god of murder, was reborn in Baldur's Gate amid chaos and bloodshed, leaving two of the city's dukes and many of its citizens dead. The return of Bhaal and his apparent reclamation of the domain of murder from Cyric led some scholars and sages to believe that the rules by which all deities must abide were in flux.

Some of these divine returns will have explanations and plots somewhere, although it does seem like it's more a 'meta' thing where some gods were wanted back so 'ohh strange stuffed happened, back now'. But maybe looking into how the other 'dead' gods came back might reveal something?

#

I like the idea that maybe "the rules by which all deities must abide were in flux." also covered 'you must stay dead'

grim siren
#

Its always Bhaal's or Cyric's fault some how

formal sable
#

I'm currently referencing the Neverwinter Campaign guide, lots of juicy information in there to flesh out the city itself...with updated characters...it's edging into world building, where there's friction between the followers of Tyr and Torm, but that's my story to tell.

grim siren
#

Oof especially with the story those two gods have in particular yeah friction is putting it lightly

formal sable
#

Exactly.

iron saffron
#

4E wanted to trim down the number of gods in the Faerunian pantheon (and others) so a lot of gods died or were absorbed into other gods or were retconned always as aspects of other gods, however, 5E retconned most of 4E's FR lore changes so a lot of gods who died during 4E were alive again!

jagged apex
#

basically even with religion being a private matter in dragonborn culture, to venerate a dragon god, especially openly would have you basically an instant pariah among your own people or worse

#

which kind of have been revised into the 5e continuity with fizbans which also gave us what are collectively called dragonborn champions, but that still has much difference between their 3e incarnation

jagged apex
#

basically the norm, at least i checked for the majority of dragonborn and their society is dragons, all dragons, thus by extension all dragon gods are not good

#

granted they have since 1479 DR begun becoming more open minded to the very concept of "good dragons" seems far from a widely accepted concept among dragonborn of toril, especially those older generations or those who overwise old fashioned are reluctant to change their view on that matter

#

though seems the worship of tiamat is the only one we know of that is officially illegal, in so far as according to their government as far as the laws are concerned and like wise bahamut's faith while not illegal is at least recognized by the law

#

and despite that it still manages to have a strong presence, that seemingly is described as comparable to that of bahamut's faith, which kind of makes some sense as basically for the longest time bahamut and tiamat have been at odds with one another on any world they are worshiped on and by extension their faiths

jagged apex
hidden current
#

i was doing some reading and i was surprised to learn the cult of the dragon was originally meant to serve dracoliches and such, i always thought it was just a tiamat cult to be honest

jagged apex
#

yeah tiamat basically influenced a new sect and caused it to become a fractured religion, some remain with their original believes others, like those in the tyranny of dragons story line are hell bent on summoning tiamat to toril

cloud marten
#

what does Tiamat think about whole thing?

#

like sure her reflection on Krynn is happy to try to take over world but Tiamat seems happy in Avernus

jagged apex
#

well she is the one that bent a sect to her own goals by correcting the translation of the text the founder based the cult on

feral lintel
#

She's rather bored in Avernus as well

#

At least according to Descent into Avernus.

jagged apex
#

nobody is happy in avernus, or the hells for that matter, exept maybe asmodeus

cloud marten
#

maybe she could take some tricks from her reflection's play book

jagged apex
#

and it was mainly rooted in a sort of act of rage

cloud marten
#

that's because Asmodeus is just that awesome

jagged apex
#

basically she was aiming to disprove the perceived notion that she was just some beast of war or glorified attack dog

#

the last paragraph in the linked section is where it talks about that

#

prior, the lord of the hells and queen of evil dragons were on rather good terms all things considered

cloud marten
#

honestly I don't much about Tiamat herself as I am more familair with her version that is Takhisis

#

but I am mainly DL fan so....

jagged apex
#

as technically the two were made one in the same in published lore, to my understanding it was not originally that way

#

but has been so for a long time

cloud marten
#

it wasn't but it was pound to happen eventually

jagged apex
#

though it makes sense with how gods in dnd work as a whole over the years

cloud marten
#

I thought that unifying two pretty much happened with revisit to DL with 5E

jagged apex
jagged apex
cloud marten
#

ah so it was already thing before that then

#

got it

#

when did they change it that way?

jagged apex
#

also i believe he even goes over her creation of abashai which he at least as proposed a connection between them and draconians, not sure if that is confirmed or just him connecting some similarities so take with a grain of salt

jagged apex
cloud marten
#

ah okay

#

my exprience with DnD before 5E was limited to ADnD era novels

jagged apex
#

much to learn then as each media of dnd like each edition is it's own continuity so things from one are not automatically canon to the other and vice versa

#

which is why to confirm something some ideas get resolidified for newer editions, like tiamat still being the same being as takhisis

iron saffron
#

Each subsequent edition tends to retcon over past editions (see 5E retcon most of 4E's FR lore...)

jagged apex
#

where as past editions are used to fill in gaps until more recent materials can confirm or disprove something in the current continuity

cloud marten
#

I did read up that 4E killed some gods while 5E brought them back

iron saffron
#

2E and 3E are probably the glory days of D&D lore since there were a lot of DM-centric supplements, novels, and comics to fill in the lore gaps.

jagged apex
#

i like to think of it as a divergent timeline, moving forward in time but not everything that has happened has necessarily happened nor necessarily in the same way as it previously did

iron saffron
iron saffron
jagged apex
#

basically undead the changes to the cosmos that everyone or at least the majority did not like

iron saffron
#

D&D lore is no where as bad or confusing as DC Comics...

jagged apex
cloud marten
jagged apex
#

yeah to my knowledge that has never been said to not be a thing, there are time based spells and what not all the way back to my knowledge as far back as 2e

iron saffron
#

D&D can easily handwave (aka retcon) by saying scholars were wrong. Pre-5E FR used the World Tree cosmology but in 5E it moved to the Great Wheel... so they just said, "Oh the scholars were wrong all this time!"

jagged apex
#

mutliple timelines is just not really a thing dnd narratives focus on

iron saffron
#

The only time time travel was a thing I know of was Dragonlance's Time of the Twins novel series where the twins went back thousands of years before the Cataclysm.

#

Time travel too much of a headache to deal with...

jagged apex
#

technically everyone's own game is canon in a dnd setting, published or otherwise in the dnd multiverse, even with minor differences, your groups events in any given adventure as just as canon as any other groups, what is addressed in the published canon is effectively what one could call a main timeline

cloud marten
#

only some writers can handle time travel well anyway

jagged apex
#

or at least most people feel it is too complicated, there are ways to do so cleanly and easily, but is something that many are a bit afraid to attempt as often narratively time travel tends to be viewed as a crutch or a plot device if not done just right

iron saffron
#

Yes, it has always been that way but WotC moved away from having "official" cannon in 5E. You think with Hasbro want to monetize D&D they would pump out more novels and comics...

jagged apex
#

thus is seldomly ever implimented

#

eh, they still have it, they are just not focusing on it as much as the wider multiverse

#

phandelver and below being released between the more recent books is a good example of that

feral lintel
#

I seriously should start reading the books. Wonder if my library has em

jagged apex
#

i could say some things on that but would not really be a lore thing would be very much meta

cloud marten
#

maybe it's good thing that they don't flood market with DnD fiction looks at old SW EU

jagged apex
#

well thinking with their wallet did not go so well for them last time they attempted it, i will leave it at that

sharp owl
#

Let's get back on topic please? This channel is for discussing D&D lore, not meta discussions about release schedules or product ranges

shell gale
#

Would hydras be a possible infinite food source if you keep letting the heads regrow?

unkempt merlin
#

Potentially. While not hydra, Eberron has a region that makes food out of troll meat, called grist

#

So it's a similar concept (even if the troll meat isn't edible by itself, it can be made into something that is)

jagged apex
#

plus if the dragon nods off to sleep long enough for it to fully regenerate, would potentially make a useful deterrent/defense against pesky adventurers that may come to try to pilfer their hoard while they are sleeping

jagged apex
unkempt merlin
#

Eating an entire troll and destroying it entirely destroys the purpose of it as an infinite food source. So it's really not within the concept to say that

jagged apex
#

though a dragon could deliberately not gulp down a foot or other limb

feral lintel
#

I mean, just eat multiple heads

jagged apex
#

but yeah, more likely with trolls they would eat the whole thing

#

so makes sense if any they more so use hydras for that purpose, lot more meat to go around so long as you don't destroy the brain or all the heads

feral lintel
#

Wouldnt they just eat the arms or limbs for trolls?

jagged apex
#

trolls are too relentless, not to mention if left able to move at all, they fear such creatures large and powerful enough to consume them in their entirety, plus being so much smaller a limb would barely be a snack depending on the size and age of the dragon

#

so basically would be far more hassle than the food they'd get out of it

feral lintel
#

The arms and legs variant is very funny tho, imagine the chefs have to wrangle the limbs to even cook them

jagged apex
#

the chef would be at high risk of becoming food

hazy fox
#

So any idea if Troll meat will regenerate inside eater’s body and explode?

jagged apex
#

trolls basically consider anything not too big and powerful to consume them whole as food and don't really fear death last i checked

jagged apex
#

if a human tried, the troll likely would, without necessarily fully regenerating, as soon as is sufficiently regenerated would rip you apart from the inside out and eat you

feral lintel
#

Eat or be eaten with trolls

jagged apex
#

not to mention their idea of an afterlife is a bit weird if they do find themselves not regenerating and thus dead for good

#

more or less they view if they regenerate or not in that regard as if their god finds them tasty enough, regenerating being them being sent back into the world to i guess gain more flavor to them or something like that i recall it from one of AJ's lore videos the one on trolls i believe, but seem to be having trouble recalling some details of that part

grave blade
#

Out of curiosity for y'all who read spell jammer more closely

Are the illithids still a notable group of spell jammers now that spell jamming and the astral sea are the same thing?

Given the old fluff reason was that illithids went there because the gith couldn't really go there to kill them, I'm curious what the new fluff is

dusk tartan
#

how are magic items made lore wise in fr

iron saffron
#

Wizards and artificers.

magic jackal
#

And technically, non-casters can make Magic Items in the right circumstances, whether from special materials or in a special forge that imbue the item created with magical properties for example.

iron saffron
#

Yes.

magic jackal
#

Yes, but it's mechanics to reflect the lore of how magic items are made in the Forgotten Realms.

#

I'm specifically referring to places like the Everfire, or materials like Darksteel.

#

Both notably usable by non-casters to make items with magic properties in the Forgotten Realms.

sharp owl
#

Yeah, any suitably powerful spellcaster can craft magic items, including dragons

jagged apex
#

also is less that the gith couldn't go there to kill them, it simply made it much harder for them to find them so they could kill them

#

on toril especially given the unique properties of Faerzress which is within toril's underdark

#

like to my knowledge the only thing keeping the illithid in the underdark safe is how small a number they are relatively to everything else living the underdark which is massive, not being able to go there was never a reason, at least to my knowledge why the illithid chose to flee to the underdark in hopes of safety to repopulate

grave blade
# jagged apex they never really stopped being a notable group to my knowledge, even before the...

To be clear, pre 5e spell jammer wasn't tied to the astral plane so gith didn't show up

At least not in meaningful numbers.

I'm not sure how much it helped the illithids against other entities, but being beyond the reach of the gods was probably hella useful as well.

Meanwhile in 5e, spell jammers kinda are in the astral plane but different layers or smth?

And if that's the case, it kinda leads to my question of why aren't the githyanki constantly trying to hunt down any notable group of illithids at all times, aka why isn't it a hot war

cloud marten
#

it might have to do with Vlaakith and what ever agenda she has

grave blade
#

That's kinda my question though

The main thing stopping the gith from major war was their target was just hard to get to

Without that, what's the reason given now?

iron saffron
grave blade
#

I haven't read 5e spell jammer

#

That's why I'm asking here lol

#

If there's some details that I didn't find out about

#

I mostly know from promotional material/broad strokes stuff

frank yarrow
#

I'm trying to find some factions in dnd that are a fun bit of lore. Ones that move towards thier own interest and are cast in shades of gray (as oppsoed to more binary good v. evil. Or us vs them). Ideas? (I am pretty new to the lore)

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

ever since the gith rebelled they and mindflayers have been opposing forces, on many scales, extraplanar, space, planetary, probably all at once

frank yarrow
jagged apex
#

just cuz you are constantly and actively hunting something, especially an entire species, does not mean you are gunna be successful automatically, especially with how intelligent the illithid are

iron saffron
jagged apex
grave blade
jagged apex
#

basically illithid expand the multiverse, the gith, especially the githyanki do also

#

that includes planes of existence, various settings, planets, ect...

#

the illithid are likely too few in number, especially with the gith actively hunting them to have any sort of solid empire or fleet, they are mainly their various colonies or places they have integrated into society if they are what is known as a renegade illithid

#

plus to my knowledge entire fleets are not really something you see in spelljamming other than referenced or in passing

#

to my knowledge the gods of the various worlds never really had to bother with worrying about the illithid do to the gith constantly keeping them from repopulating anywhere near to their previous numbers from back when they had their empire, not counting other media such as video games and the like

#

just cuz they are not as powerful and numerous as they use to be, the illithid are never really small time players in places where they are involved

jagged apex
rancid saddle
#

is there any good undead god or godess?

magic jackal
#

What do you mean by Undead

slow river
#

Leonin don't exist in feyrun do they?

magic jackal
#

No, Leonin are from Theros.

slow river
#

Thank you

jagged apex
#

assuming by that you ment like a good aligned god or goddess of undeath

magic jackal
#

You could argue that Osiris, who is in the Mulhorandi Pantheon is a literally Undead God and he's Lawful Good.

#

Not a God of Undeath though, just a God who is also Undead.

jagged apex
#

though i believe a while ago, at least from what i heard, he basically gave up his godhood for true immortality as a the one who guards over the vestages of the dead gods in the astral plane, and that is why those who build on the rocks that are these god's bodies, don't dig into it or anything as to do so would be to ensight his wrath

pure knoll
#

Is mind flayer a Common (as in the language) slang word for an illithid?

magic jackal
#

I don't think it's slang so much as it just is the Common name for Illithids.

#

We call Dung Beetles Dung Beetles because they're beetles that roll Dung.
The people of the Forgotten Realms call Illithids Mind Flayers because they Flay Minds.

pale rivet
#

would a changeling be them\they or would they have a true gender in their true form.

sharp owl
#

Being they/them (ie non-binary) is as "true" a gender as any other

#

I don't believe any of the official lore specifies if a changelings true form has a sexual or gender expression, very little information is given

pale rivet
#

ok

gilded laurel
#

Which generally means "the players and DM can decide what makes sense for them".

sharp owl
#

Their true form is something they keep very secret and changelings, at least according to Eberron lore, will actually have a default form that they prefer, almost like a favourite set of clothes

#

However, they view gender as something flexible, like how you change your clothes or hair

pale rivet
#

that is what I thought

#

thank you for your help

slow river
#

Is it ever explained HOW tieflings descended from female demons are born? Like the first tieflings? I doubt Zariel was just pregnant for 9 months

obsidian gate
#

female devils, but generally, the lore is very light on details when it comes to these topics

#

normally, the children of devils are cambions btw, but xanthars says tieflings can also come from that heritage. It doesnt say which devils exactly are responsible for tiefling children, so could be that they only can come from cambions for all I know

sharp owl
#

The first tieflings weren't born of devils, they were a human people who made a pact with Asmodeus and this pact manifested in their fiendish appearance

obsidian gate
#

oh yeah missed that part

#

the vast majority of tieflings are born to humanoid parents

sharp owl
#

Other tieflings are the results of similar pacts with other arch devils

slow river
#

Oooh makes sense. I was only thinking of the 'child of something infernal' and was like wait how did zariel tieflings come to being

#

Makes sense they're from pacts with Zariel and it is genetic

sharp owl
#

It's very broad, it can be anything from "One of my parents made a deal with a representative of Zariel and I was born a tiefling because of it" to "A thousand years ago, one of my ancestors was a tiefling"

obsidian gate
#

Archdevils can make Cambion children, so its possible she has some as well

slow river
#

Oh so zariel has a cambion. Cambion has a zariel tiefling ?

#

That still brings into question how the Cambion came to be

#

But ah well

sharp owl
#

As for tieflings being born of a human father and an infernal mother, given that devils are immortal, sticking around in human appearance for 9 months would be nothing

sharp owl
slow river
#

I meant more of 'why would a devil do that' more than 'can a devil do that'

spark haven
#

if not...does it actually matter precisely what parts go where for how long?

obsidian gate
#

"why would a devil do that?" more bodies for the blood war

sharp owl
#

@spark haven This is the lore channel, these questions can be asked here without any game motivation behind

spark haven
#

fair

obsidian gate
#

and cambions do have advantages over pure devils. No soul needs to be corrupted, and they start more powerful than those souls that are freshly risen from the styx

sharp owl
#

It might also be easier to corrupt a mortal who is born of infernal parentage; "come join the family business" kinda thing

slow river
#

Sorry

spark haven
#

no i was out of line, i'm used to dm chat

hidden current
#

i know a greatwyrm is a dragon with godlike power so how powerful would a greatwyrm dracolich be?

iron saffron
#

This is more of a #dnd-discussion question if you're asking about gameplay mechanics.

hidden current
#

i mean are dracoliches stronger than normal dragons?

unkempt merlin
#

Not inherently

#

Often but not always

hidden current
#

oh ok just wondered cause when looking at greatwyrms saw one black greatwyrm who became a dracolich so I wondered

iron saffron
hidden current
#

thats an adult i was asking greatwyrm but ok i got it

iron saffron
#

Gameplay mechanics "power" isn't really a lore thing. Again, #dnd-discussion would be a better place to ask.

hidden current
#

power is a lore thing, you saying zariel doesnt have power or asymodeas

feral lintel
#

It variess from dragon to dragon

iron saffron
#

You would use the dracolich template. The adult blue dracolich in the MM is just a sample.

iron saffron
#

Think of D&D lore as history.

#

"This is what happened in 1423 DR"... that's lore.

#

"Eldaervae was a gold great wyrm who had a cloud castle over Neverwinter"... that's lore.

hidden current
#

and i was asking how powerful the black greatwyrm calathanorgoth would be how is that not lore

iron saffron
#

Asmodeus is a greater god while Zariel is/was an arch-devil. That's lore.

feral lintel
#

Might have been easier to start by mentioning the name lol

hidden current
feral lintel
#

calathanorgoth

hidden current
#

what about him/her

iron saffron
#

So again, this is gameplay mechanics... an ancient black dragon is CR 21 and the dracolich template doesn't increase its CR.

jagged apex
#

if you play bg3 you can see a perfect example of this in the game which is in line with the published lore of dnd 5e, vauge as it is

#

the lineage more often than not is where the taint of fiendish blood or power comes from, so a curse or pact with zariel would sire zariel tieflings to any tieflings born of that person's lineage, tieflings are plane touched quote "infused with the touch of the fiendish planes", does not mean you have to be born with it via blood @slow river

hidden current
iron saffron
#

I'm looking at the source book Dragons of Faerun and it lists her as wrym.

#

Regardless, the gameplay mechanics part still stands. You add the dracolich template to the base creature.

jagged apex
#

yeah in theory for Calathanorgoth he'd be a mix of the statblock for a black dragon greatwyrm and a dracolich, in terms of mechanics

jagged apex
#

but that is rather minor

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

5e age categories cut out a lot of the in between stages and focus mainly on the most significant ages where they increase in size and power

hidden current
#

so would calathanorgoth be ancient or greatwyrm?

jagged apex
#

greatwyrm

iron saffron
#

In 5E terms she would be ancient.

#

5E introduced "greatwyrm" whose powers didn't exist back in 3.5E.

jagged apex
#

though if ancient, probably would aboved average for an ancient, nudging him a little closer to greatwyrm, else could be something just would be up to the dm's interpretation

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

but if going by the simplified chart as part of what oldman linked earlier he'd be a beefier ancient

iron saffron
#

This is sliding into #dnd-discussion territory if we're talking about CR "power" level.

hidden current
#

the reason i am asking all this is because i am using calathanorgoth in my characters backstory and prefer the use lore accurate information so i wanted to know which age catagorie to use

iron saffron
#

She is listed in Dragons of Faerun as a wyrm (age category 11 in 3.5E which would be ancient in 5E).

jagged apex
#

this detail honestly really only matters for conversion if using them in a way where they need a statblock and were to show up

#

lore wise they likely would still be a wyrm as among their own kind such terms likely are still used

iron saffron
#

Does it really matter for your backstory if the DM doesn't use her as a monster to fight? She's powerful, that's all you or the DM needs to know.

jagged apex
#

cuz either way she would be older than your typical ancient black dragon

hidden current
feral lintel
#

Yes, but that's up to your DM

hidden current
iron saffron
hidden current
#

ok also in dragons of faerun calathanorgoth is "she" but in cult of the dragons it is "he" 1 why did they change it and 2 which is better when trying to stick to the lore?

iron saffron
#

Authors of books aren't always the same ones on other books. Editors should have caught the inconsistency.

jagged apex
#

yeah, like even via a rough estimate we are talking about a dragon who could easily be a bbg for even a seasoned adventurer (being able to be a challenge for tier 4 player characters) to quote that section of the dmg as it mentions dragons in that level of power "The dragons they encounter are wyrms of tremendous power, whose sleep troubles kingdoms and whose waking threatens existence itself." so she would be at a minimum capable of such power and feats, likely more so with the advantages that come with undeath

iron saffron
#

Cult of the Dragon was a 2E book and Dragons of Faerun was a 3.5E book. Lore changes/retcons between editions.

modest badger
#

Or just lean in to it and have a dragon that changes gender / is non-binary.
Or have it that those in 'Dragons of Faerun' assumed she was male.

jagged apex
#

after all, what is gender to the undead, to those who are eternal long after man is but dust in the wind?

hidden current
jagged apex
#

they/them

#

easy enough change if needed

feral lintel
#

Im not sure if this is lore now tho

jagged apex
#

fair, let's get back on track

hidden current
# feral lintel Im not sure if this is lore now tho

well talking about gender difference is the story counts as lore i think right? but yea droping that and moving on what is the "current" year in the DR calendar are we in the 16th century yet or still late 15th?

modest badger
#

It would not be the first time of characters changing pronouns between publications and being a continuity error rather than anything deeper. Up to you have you wish to treat these editting/ continuity errors but anything read into it is your own interpretation rather than official lore.

jagged apex
#

especially since i doubt any sage is foolish enough to risk their life just to double check a dragon's naughty bits

unkempt merlin
#

Those don't have to do with gender anyway

iron saffron
#

Again, cult of the Dragon was a 2E book and Dragons of Faerun was a 3.5E book. Lore changes/retcons between editions and/or editors screwed up.

modest badger
#

(I personally like to make any sufch happeninings into trans or NB rep, although that can get messy. Also on that note, many older editions were.. not great with pronouns even when they were trying to touch on trans / NB identities)

jagged apex
#

basically go with what ever the dragon themself uses, less chance of angering it that way ^^;

hidden current
#

so what is the current DR year in the D&D universe

jagged apex
iron saffron
iron saffron
modest badger
#

Gonna link to LordKas's wonderful Faerun Timeline for that

jagged apex
#

we don't know, but the latest any adventure is set in is 1492 DR

#

or at least the latest year that seems to have events recorded

iron saffron
#

Descent Into Avernus (1494 DR)
Acquisitions Incorporated (1496 DR)

hidden current
#

bg3 and honor amongst thieves are both late 1400's so i just wondered if we hit 1500 yet

modest badger
#

Few years yet 'IG' but soon

jagged apex
#

oh yeah, thought was 1492 dr cuz i saw nothing in 1493 dr

#

at least on the forgotten realms which the current era, goes up to 1600 DR. but to my knowledge we have not gotten anything set in 1500 DR, let alone after

#

technically what we get in the game is never present day, at best recent past of those settings

#

current era is also know as "Present Age", at least according to the forgotten realms wiki

grim siren
#

BG3 which has its own canon of course lists the date as 1492 in multiple places. It reportedly takes places after Descent. The Gazetter in Descent list 1492 as the date as well.

But the hook of the story is the deal was alledgely signed in 1444 with a timeline for 50 years. That would apparement make the adventure take place in 1494.

But the only mention of that contract date is in Descent. So its not even consistent within the same adventure.

#

To me it reads more as ~50 years. But that is almost a demonic level of lack of detail for an archdevil.

grim siren
hybrid lance
#

Apart from Elminster: The Making of a Mage, is there another Elminster novel that does a great job at capturing his personality / thought process / beliefs?

grim siren
#

I really like the Temptation of Elminster and The Herald

hybrid lance
grim siren
#

The Herald is alright to read but it is the sixth book of the sundering series. If you know about the spell plague and the second sundering it should be relatively easy to jump into

hybrid lance
eager bay
#

Question. Can a tempest cleric get their powers from a kraken?

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM.

#

Class and their class powers really isn't a lore thing.

summer latch
#

Magic lore question. From my understanding, the Weave is like a channeling tool to manipulate the ambient energies of the world, and it's commonly used because it's particularly easy to use... kinda like a touch-screen menu at McDonalds or something. Could you still access level 10+ spells through other means to circumvent Mystra's ban, like elven high magic?

iron saffron
#

Mystra is the one who controls access to the Weave in Realmspace. You can't bypass her.

summer latch
#

So elven high magic and other forms of magic still need her permission to work?

iron saffron
#

Inside Realmspace.

shell gale
#

is there a good guide/lore info about planescape? Preferably besides just saying "read the HC" XD Youtube video would be best.

I know nothing about it, just like..other worlds/planes of existence etc

jagged apex
# shell gale is there a good guide/lore info about planescape? Preferably besides just saying...

depends on the edition, else you could always watch lore videos about those planes and such as those by AJ Pickett who covers typically all editions and does his best to consolidate them into a sort of singular continuity, though is worth keeping in mind canonically each edition is it's own continuity but past editions can be used to fill in gaps until we get newer information that contradicts stuff from older editions

jagged apex
# summer latch Magic lore question. From my understanding, the Weave is like a channeling tool ...

even with elven high magic you can't technically, and the long and short of it, if it is possible, mystra has gone out of her way to where no mortal in realmspace would even be capable of knowing, let alone actually still doing it, cuz even if you would succeed, to my understanding mystra not only has a number of safe guards in place that will prevent it from working, but can out right deny the spell, basically level infinite counterspell on what ever epic level spell you may be trying to cast, unless your reasoning and intent for it would fall into a very niech set of parameters

#

the limitations out of all that they effect, are a mainly to prevent human casters from pulling a karsus, as the penalties, at least that i am aware of, they effect humans the most where as it is almost irrelevant for an elf for example, the youtuber Mr.Rhexx covered it in detail in one of his videos, but he is not as reliable a source as the likes of AJ Pickett so would take that with a grain of salt, so either it is out right impossible or if it is possible mystra has made it so no mortal, especially a human would reasonably be able to find out

#

honestly is a lot easier to just travel to the feywild if wanting to cast epic level spells, if you somehow have access to them, as from what i am aware, this limit on magic in realmspace does not extend into the feywilds

jagged apex
#

granted is massively more easy than trying to use raw magic, not to mention a lot safer

summer latch
#

Haha, the McDonald's comparison was probably off in that respect

#

I just meant relatively... like I know high magic rituals were insanely complex, raw magic unpredictable, etc.

jagged apex
#

without the weave, arcane magic out right could not really be used by mortals

#

is why when the weave was briefly destroyed all arcane magic failed across toril and potentially all of realmspace

#

the fact is even though the ways have changed arcane magic in the forgotten realms has always been built with the weave as the foundation of how it works, literally no mortal mages really know how to use arcane magic without useing the weave in some way

#

is like trying to to make water with out using hydrogen or oxygen

#

in the old days it was a lot easier than it is presently i'll give you that, but karsus kind of ruined it for everyone with his huberis and the first and only 12th level spell

#

dude litterally in his huberis picked the one god that would objectively the wrong one to pick

summer latch
#

Haha, ya, I wonder if he just would have picked a different god what would have happened. Then again, he probably wouldn't have been able to defeat the phaerimm with another god's portfolio

jagged apex
#

suposidly, the crisis that bears his name would not have happened had he picked literally any other god, which honestly would have still given him plenty of power for what he wanted to use it for, ie ending the war against the Phaerimm

#

he was right about one of those two things

jagged apex
#

cuz literally the moment he cast it on her, the process caused the weave to become undone

#

hell, any war deity could have easily won him the war and again would not have caused the infamous event

gilded lava
#

which layer of hell do the majority of evil dead people go to, which devil is responsible for it, and which would be the most upset if dead people were blocked off from going to it?

jagged apex
#

that is not really how the 9 hells work in dnd

#

but if there was any such layer, probably avernus given that is where everything funnels through and the river styx runs through, though it runs through other layers too

#

plus only lawful evil people who die or die after making a deal with a devil go to hell, there are other planes that serve as the afterlife for other evil alginment combinations

#

and which devil is responsible for it depends on which layer you are talking about as each is ruled by an archdevil and the 9th, asmodeus is all the lord of all of hell

#

and dead people being prevented from going to there is not really a major concern to my knowledge anyway, as long as hell keeps getting souls to turn into devils and thus soldiers to fight in the bloodwar i doubt any of them really care much about if they are getting souls in their layer

iron saffron
#

Devils wouldn't block petitioners (aka souls) to go to Hell since they need them to convert to new devils to fight the Blood War.

sharp osprey
#

hi, I wanted to know more about Ravenloft but I have kind of a hard time reading extensive lore

#

does anyone know any good guides to help ease through Ravenloft's lore and overall setting?

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

Is it generally common knowledge of how and where souls go? Lets say FR

iron saffron
#

The go to the Fugue before the proxies of the souls' gods picks them up to go to their gods' domains in the Outer Planes. Mortals who were unbelievers their souls stick around — devils would try to have them sign pacts to go to Hell.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Fugue_Plane

feral lintel
#

Ah ic. Is this knowledge generally known in most settings? Or is that more for another channel?

iron saffron
#

That lore is very specific to Realmspace (the Forgotten Realms).

#

But generally mortal souls go to the Outer Planes to their gods' domains on the appropriate plane. A LG soul would go to Celetia while a CE soul would go to the Abyss.

feral lintel
#

Ah roger. Thanks OldMan!

steady verge
#

Can someone give me some lore about drow? I don’t know anything about them, but I need to know at least a bit about them for a session

forest rock
#

Have you looked on the forgotten realms wiki?

steady verge
#

I completely forgot it existed, good point, appreciated

snow laurel
#

Weird question: D&D borrows a lot from real world mythology but have the Greek muses ever appeared as distinct creatures or monsters in D&D?

#

I'm considering homebrewing the muses as chaotic good celestials to replace the 3e era celestial eladrin

grave blade
feral lintel
#

Well, they exist

snow laurel
#

I wouldn't be surprised if they were statted up in like dieties and demigods or something

iron saffron
#

The muses would be considered demi-goddesses in D&D terms. AFAIK they've never shown up in any of the Deities & Demigods / Legend Lore books of any editions.

feral lintel
#

No...? Demigods and gods dont have statblocks usually. Unless its an Avatar

iron saffron
#

1E Deities and Demigods were pre-avatars. 3.5E Deities & Demigods has statblocks for both the deities and their avatars.

snow laurel
#

hell they had cthulhu in early books

iron saffron
#

1E had statblocks for the gods (Lolth only had 66 hp!)
2E only had statblockss for their avatars I believe.
The power levels of gods peaked in 3.5E, with statblocks for the deities and their avatars.
4E didn't bother much with deities (other than Lolth in MM3)

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

i think 3e was the last time players and thus by extention mortals were actually capable of fighting gods in a traditional sense like you would other creatures

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

heck far as i know the muses of greek myth are not even mentioned in dnd, then again the greek pantheon in dnd is most associated with earth, not counting any sort of potential variations from cross over settings like theroes, and only a few greek gods even have a presnece, of any sort, on toril and other published settings

feral lintel
#

Theros doesnt have any of the Greek gods iirc, they just made gods based on certain gods (and the cards they are from)

jagged apex
#

i know, though there are some gods that could be viewed as parallels to greek ones, especially with the whole setting being inspired by ancient greek

modest badger
#

Apparently there are Vampire Muses and Leanan Sidhe are very much an irish version of a Muse. Lhiannan shee were also in 2e Forgotten Realms and are basically the same concept but different spelling of the name- I believe in Dragon 101 (Yep, page 48- I swear they also reappear in a forgotten realm monster compendium)

jagged apex
#

yeah the vampire muse was one of the few i came across

#

the other being the members of the Society of Sensation in 5e planescape

modest badger
#

Ah right- Lhiannan shee also appear in 2e Monster Compendium 11 Forgotten Realms

jagged apex
#

according to the wiki, the leanan sidhe and lhjannan shee are very different creatures, despite the similar name

modest badger
#

Hmm. It's the same concept from irish folklore but comparing the two they do have different stats that aren't just edition changes. Two different people taking different approaches to the same concept.

#

And one is undead (Lhiannan Shee) and one is fey (Leanan Sidhe)

#

A Vampire muse is actually more the spiritual successor to Lhiannan Shee edition wise.

loud totem
#

I know fiends can't permanently die unless killed on their native plane, but what about celestials?

modest badger
#

Celestials don't have any such general lore, and it's really only fiends that have had this lore through editions (and summoned creatures- but only if summoned. Anything other than a fiend that enters another plane through some other means can still die)

There's some specific lore for a few celestials:
Planescape 2e, Monstrous Compendium I:

Planetar:

Planetars regenerate 4 hit points per round.
Unless encountered on the upper Outer Planes, only the material form of a planetar can he harmed. Upon destruction, its life force returns to its home plane to become corporeal again; this process requires four decades

#

Empyreans also have similar lore in 5e, MM p.130:

Immortal Titans. Empyreans don't age but can be slain. Because few empyreans can imagine their own demise, they fight fearlessly when drawn into battle, refusing to believe that the end is upon them even when standing at death's door. When an empyrean dies, its spirit returns to its home plane. There, one of the fallen empyrean's parents resurrects the empyrean unless he or she has a good reason not to.

#

Although for Empyreans it's less a natural process and more their parents stepping in.

jagged apex
modest badger
#

Again, only fiends through out the editions.

#

Please find me the quote saying all extra planar beings.

jagged apex
#

which was reconfirmed at least for celestials and fiends in 5e planescape

modest badger
#

Oh, has 5e planescape changed this? My bad.

jagged apex
#

is a small paragraph so is missable, but from my understanding it was nothing new and was always the case for extra planar beings, they may have largely only addressed it with fiends in the past for one reason or another

modest badger
#

It was not always true for all extra planar beings

jagged apex
#

either way in 5e and i quote " A petitioner or another Celestial or Fiend that is destroyed can reconstitute on a plane that shares its alignment after 100 years, or it might choose to become one with that plane and never return."

#

is mainly in relation to petitioners but nothing in it says that other fiends and celestials would be excluded

feral lintel
#

There is more accessible information about the lower planes than there is the higher planes

#

Bookwise

jagged apex
#

plus it makes sense with the blood war and mortals summoning often either demons or devils, makes some sense why fiends would be the ones we mainly got info on

#

like by that logic fiends are just outside of their home plane more often

feral lintel
#

Yee

#

We do have Out of the Abyss and Descent

jagged apex
#

my understanding of this being fundamental to extra planar life is taken largely at least prior to 5e planescape, is AJ Pickett's videos where this is restated often, granted this could be misinformation but he rarely if ever tends to misinform at least intentionally

modest badger
#

And yep, Morte's Planar Parade, Under 'Death and the Planes' does indeed allow petitioners, celestials or fiends to reconstitute after a 100 years.

Which is different to MM lore.

Demons

Eternal Evil. Outside the Abyss, death is a minor nuisance that no demon fears. Mundane weapons can't stop these fiends, and many demons are resistant to the energy of the most potent spells. When a lucky hero manages to drop a demon in combat, the fiend dissolves into foul ichor. It then instantly reforms in the Abyss, its mind and essence intact even as its hatred is inflamed. The only way to truly destroy a demon is to seek it in the Abyss and kill it there.
MM p.50, 'Demons'

As with other demons, a demon lord that dies on another plane has its essence return to the Abyss, where it reforms into a new body. Likewise, a demon lord that dies in the Abyss is permanently destroyed. Most demon lords keep a portion of their essence safely stored away to prevent such a fate.
MM p.51, 'Demon lords'

Devils

If it dies outside the Nine Hells, a devil disappears in a cloud of sulfurous smoke or dissolves into a pool of ichor, **instantly returning to its home layer, where it reforms at full strength. **Devils that die in the Nine Hells are destroyed forever- a fate that even Asmodeus fears.
MM p.67, Infernal hierarchy

Although I suppose the instantly only applies to the returning, not the reforming for devils?

jagged apex
#

and one could potentially extend this to the aberrations of limbo as aberrations basically defy normal biology typically, though that would be debatable and to my knowledge has not been explored in lore or narrative

modest badger
#

Again. Please find me an actual quote from a book, and not a video.
Because every time this comes up you go 'But AJPickett says' after I have quoted mutliple editions and books and none contain 'all planar beings'

#

It is increasingly frustrating.

#

And if you do find an older edition book that says all planar beings (Not summons, that's different, as was explained) I will be incredibly enthusiatic, because that is something I have been searching for an couldn't find, so would be glad to see.
But in no forums on similar questions, or in older planar books or anywhere else can I find that.

jagged apex
#

i'm not trying to say you are wrong, but i am also not trying to say my understanding is 100% factual necessarily cuz i don't really have access to those older books and am getting it technically from a second hand source, but at least with the more recent blanket rule in morte's planar parade if they already were not, seems the canon is moving towards that direction, the potential outliers being those like the aberrations of limbo

modest badger
#

Morte's Parade does indeed extend the rule to celestials (and petitioners). Not all planar beings though yet.

jagged apex
#

wonder if they will at least keep consistent with that in the reprints, else that bit of lore could get confusing if it just has the same info on the subject the 2014 monster manual had

#

like even if they don't extend it, i hope they at least keep it consistant with what they established in MPP

copper flax
#

So I’m picking a stat block for my BBEG and just wondering if the colors matter that much on there alignment? I’m trying for a more Lawful Evil but I also need a high CR. Does it matter that much or can I just pretend it has a diff alignment

jagged apex
#

not really a lore question

#

alignement reflects their personality, morals, and world view, stuff like that, has no connection to mechanics unless it specifically mentions a certain alignment, which is not often

#

as for colors, no idea what you mean by that

feral lintel
#

They meant dragons

copper flax
#

Oh I’m so sorry I didn’t mention dragon lol

jagged apex
#

still makes no difference really

#

dragons can deviate from their norms, as can any intelligent being

modest badger
#

But as far as I can scrounge up publication history wise:

  • 1e- Demons and Devil of a certain level cannot die outside their planes (MM 1 & MM2)
  • 2e- Same, plus Planescape adds in Planetars essence returns to home plane and after 400 reforms (MC 1), and Modron's can't die in their own plane (Planescape, Planes of Law) and possibly any plane (Still can't find a source for that quote)
  • 3.5 Demons and Devils reform in native plane (Fiendish Codex I & II)
  • 4e (Actually need to check this more, might have missed soemthing here)
  • 5e Blanket rule on demons (MM p.50), devils (p.67), rakshasa (p.257), and Yugoloths have weirder lore (calls out they can't die in the abyys or nine hells, and if they die in Gehenna need a ritual to be brought back) MToF p.8, and now Morte's Planar Parade has all celestials and fiends be able to come back in 100 years on any plane matching alignment.
jagged apex
#

and again alignment and mechanics rarely if ever connect, especially with things like CR

#

so is not really a lore question when it comes down to it, if anything you may have misunderstood the nature of alignment or something

unkempt merlin
copper flax
#

No I think I was misunderstanding I get it now.

unkempt merlin
#

It is a lore thing for dragons in certain settings to tend towards certain alignments

jagged apex
#

heck we have known individuals that despite being a metallic dragon, were rather evil by their kind's own standards, such as the silver dragon turned ghost named Miirym

jagged apex
unkempt merlin
#

Doesn't change what I said

#

Nor the fact that asking here is fine for that purpose

jagged apex
#

is why in more recent years the average example of a dragon or other creature will have "typically (insert alignment here)"

unkempt merlin
#

Still doesn't change what was said though

feral lintel
#

Wait, I thought Miirym was blue

jagged apex
iron saffron
copper flax
jagged apex
iron saffron
jagged apex
copper flax
feral lintel
jagged apex
#

well she nothing on the wiki in terms of artwork of here suggests that unless maybe the 3e depiction, but even then if you pay attention it lacks the whole a blue dragon's skull would have for their distinct nose horn, or the horn would be there if it was not removed

modest badger
#

3.5 Dragons of Faerun had a Neutral aligned Gold Dragon druid called Gildenfire (or Aerosclughpalar), and Miirym (The Sentinel Wyrm) was a neutral silver dragon, and played loosely with the lawful/chaotic nature of most dragons

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Her MtG art mostly

jagged apex
#

cuz again, that very much looks like a ghostly silver dragon to me

feral lintel
#

Yea, i must have been on something.

jagged apex
modest badger
#

Yeah that one was an odd one. I read the comic that appeared in and it didn't seem like actual dairy cheese, but a name (Cheeeese) for a type of drug that only affected halflings, and was brutally used in the comic, and not actually played for laughs.

feral lintel
#

Cheeeese

jagged apex
#

yeah, drug abuse is not funny, but the fact that is comes from a type of cheese is what makes it at least a little funny for me and that apparently it seems to only have that effect on halflings

#

but somethings can be played both ways, either for dark story telling or for light hearted laughs

feral lintel
#

Imagine if halflings were actually lactose intorlerant

gentle spoke
#

ok so this is a srs lore question if a dwarf and a elf had a child would it create a human offspring?

unkempt merlin
#

No

iron saffron
#

That's not a serious question nor is a lore question.

gentle spoke
#

it is though.

#

or would it be a dwelf? or some type of half elf or a gnome?

feral lintel
#

Gnomes are a seperate race

gentle spoke
#

but think about it a gnome is basicly a dwarf and a elf with there features.

#

and i think there was a dwelf (5e) race

#

and it also said on (5e) that they resemble humans

iron saffron
#

This isn't the channel for this.

gentle spoke
#

then what chanel is im trying to figure out.

iron saffron
loud totem
#

Do aarakocra, kenku, or owlin hatch from eggs?

modest badger
#

In general there shouldn't really be a name for dwarf-elf mixed heritage. Naming mixed heritage like that feels... very off. But D&D doesn't have a great history on things like this.
Many sources, like those in Dragon Magazine articles and letters use degrading language and delve into eugenics, blood quantum laws and bioessentialism without hesitation.

The newest approach we have is OneD&D that is being playtested is this:

CHILDREN OF DIFFERENT HUMANOID KINDS
Thanks to the magical workings of the multiverse, Humanoids of different kinds sometimes have children together. For example, folk who have a human parent and an orc or an elf parent are particularly common. Many other combinations are possible. If you’d like to play the child of such a wondrous pairing, choose two Race options that are Humanoid to represent your parents. Then determine which of those Race options provides your game traits: Size, Speed, and special traits. You can then mix and match visual characteristics—color, ear shape, and the like—of the two options. For example, if your character has a halfling and a gnome parent, you might choose Halfling for your game traits and then decide that your character has the pointed ears that are characteristic of a gnome. Finally, determine the average of the two options’ Life Span traits to figure out how long your character might live. For example, a child of a halfling and a gnome has an average life span of 288 years.

Currently you can use custom lineage.
Dwarf and elf mixed heritage is a thing I believe in a few cases, or at least not ruled out: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Half-dwarf

eager bay
#

Lore question, if one god gets particularly really really strong to the point they can start killing and absorbing other gods is there anything the other gods can do to stop the snowball?

#

Like a tool left by Ao or something

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

half dwarves are rare in general in the forgotten realms for a number of reasons, mainly on the dwarf side of things

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

I do not reember anything in MtG about Owlin born from eggs

loud totem
#

What about kobolds, lizardfolk, and tortles?

#

Oh, and dragonborn.

feral lintel
#

Those i remember being eggs

#

Not dragonborn iirc

sharp owl
#

That's not really on topic for this channel

quartz lagoon
#

ah sorry what channel is more appropriate.

sharp owl
quartz lagoon
#

oh ok

sharp owl
#

This channel is for discussing lore, not for discussing your opinions on others opinions on lore

smoky dust
#

Is there significant lore for the Snowflake Mountains? 🤔

#

I just wanna get a rough idea, if there's any.

tired granite
modest badger
# loud totem Oh, and dragonborn.

Dragonborn are, least in 4e and implied in 5e

Like true dragons, however, dragonborn hatch from eggs, usually laid singly or, more rarely, in a pair. Hatchlings are quickly capable of standing and walking, but their teeth take a few months to come in.

  • Ah, forgotten the source for this, I think: Dragon Magazine 365, Ecology of the Dragonborn (4e)

Dragonborn are oviparous (egg-laying), and youngsters are generally referred to as hatchlings for the first few months of life.
-Wizards presents races and classes (4e)

Age. Young dragonborn grow quickly. They walk hours** after hatching,** attain the size and development of a 10-year-old human child by the age of 3, and reach adulthood by 15. They live to be around 80.
-5e PHB

gray ember
#

Is there a reason so many races are refererred to in past tense on the wiki?

#

By "The Wiki" I do mean the Fandom site. Idk if there's another

sharp owl
#

Past tense is the mandatory style requirement

#

Everything is referred to in the past tense because it's the only way to present information in a coherent tense

gray ember
#

Had me thinking there was some mass extinction event lol

sharp owl
#

Specifically because there's no way to present information in the present tense due to there being no present

gray ember
#

Kind of makes sense idk, similar to the deal in All Tomorrows where the information is presented as history I guess medShrug

slow river
#

Is there any official stance on what colours tieflings can be?

unkempt merlin
#

Any

magic jackal
unkempt merlin
#

tieflings have a wide array of skin tones, all of them vibrant and colorful. The most common hue is a deep crimson, but shades of purple, blue, green, and even yellow and pink have been seen throughout the world.

slow river
unkempt merlin
#

Wildemount. Multiple adventures have also had tieflings outside the red tones in them

slow river
#

Oh okay. So a Levistus tiefling who's blue makes sense. thanks

crude blaze
#

I honestly can’t recall any non-Exandria adventures that have tieflings who aren’t red or human tones

unkempt merlin
#

Radiant citadel has plenty

grim siren
#

Avarice in Rime of the Frostmaiden is like snow white

unkempt merlin
#

Golden vault has non red tone ones as well

unkempt merlin
#

Orrery of the Wanderer has a purple toned one as well iirc

grim siren
#

Yup. The Purple one in the PHB though I always have to tell people is a lighting thing. That particular tiefling is not purple. But rather Farideh from the Brimestone Angels series, who has otherwise tan or bronze skin not royal purple.

MTG introduced a bunch of purple tieflings in the Heroes of Baldur's Gate set.

And Planescape has bright blue tieflings.

unkempt merlin
#

If we are going outside the 5e books specifically then you can also just point to bg3 and be done with it

#

(Also admittedly for Farideh. That is not the only art that seems to be her that is purple toned)

grim siren
#

Yeah. The PHB Rule was never really followed in 5e rightfully so imo. For mainly two reasons.

One, the art right next makes "Generic Tiefling" more purple than grimmace not red. So not even following the description.

Two, more importantly, new players are explciticly told to look at the pictures and not the text for inspiration. And in general people are allergic to actually reading by and large.

#

By the time the art community got a hold of tieflings the battle was long lost and it was never going to change lol

unkempt merlin
#

Pretty sure there are other non red tone tieflings in early era 5e books anyway

grim siren
#

Oh that is is my point. that the idea that tieflings are human skin toned and red only died with the PHB

unkempt merlin
#

I'd have to check the books that released pre phb as well

grim siren
#

I just checked my HOTDQ and ROT books the only tieflings I could find were

Maccath the Crimson who is blood red.

and Rain Nightshade who does not have art nor a skin tone descrption

obsidian gate
#

It should be said that rainbow colored tieflings seems to pretty wildemount specific.

For forgotten realms, we do get a bit more than human and red though thanks to scag

unkempt merlin
#

Even outside of scag you have others

#

And I wouldn't call rainbow spectrum exandria specific either

obsidian gate
#

What other colors are confirmed except blue?

unkempt merlin
#

For FR specifically?

obsidian gate
#

Yes

unkempt merlin
#

Purple for one

#

Iirc there is also a yellow tiefling in one book

obsidian gate
#

Well purple is a mix between blue and red, so that barely counts imo. Plus the issue with artists license mentioned above.

#

Where is the yellow one?

unkempt merlin
#

I would have to find it

#

(Assuming you only want stuff from 5e books specifically)

obsidian gate
#

Yeah for this purpose 5e only

mental cloak
#

I mean, tieflings cover the full range of human skin colors and apparently all shades of red, so yellow is indeed a choice, since humans are all just a shade of orange (barring skin conditions).

unkempt merlin
#

That's... a statement

obsidian gate
#

Pretty sure that actually bright yellow doesn’t fall under normal human skin tones lol

mental cloak
#

I mean if you're talking about pastel yellow? Yeah no, unless you have a skin condition. Haven't seen a Yellow Tiefling anywhere yet so im giving up my search lol

shell pawn
#

How old are brain devourers on average?
Have they been with a Mind Flayer for centuries?

magic jackal
rancid saddle
#

Can elfs sleep?

gritty yoke
#

They can but typically don’t

#

mordenkainen's tome of foes had a small section in it about how they could sleep but dreams kinda made them uneasy.

#

Paraphrasing of course. Lore can vary by table though

sharp owl
#

Yeah, the general jist is (at least in FR and FR like settings) dreaming opens them up to their past lives more and can be disconcerting

#

This is why the choose to trance instead of sleep

leaden field
#

Anyone any of the lore about the yak-men and the faceless god?

forest rock
strange sun
#

whats up everyone, I am new to DND and would like to learn more about it. Not much of a player myself, but am more in it for the art and lore. I would like to do some illustrations and designs for my portfolio, but am not sure where to start with DND.

iron saffron
#

You don't need to learn about D&D lore to create fantasy art but if you want to know about the lore then we have to ask, "Which setting?"

jagged apex
crude blaze
#

As previously mentioned, Avarice is kind of an outlier based of the fact that she’s explicitly albino

jagged apex
#

so with the array of different creatures in the lower planes for them to be connected with in some way, there is practically no real limit, just human like and red shades are technically the most common at least according to the current 5e phb

jagged apex
#

though i guess that could also imply to those she may wish to communicate something to that are not elves, but she seems a goddess almost exclusively involved with the elves if not factoring in the period of time she was considered an aspect of selune

jagged apex
grim siren