#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 11 of 1

white ravine
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Way I see it is this. If you use the spell as a mortal to replace a god, you dont give up much and are given immense power. A god doing that to another god would mean abandoning your previous portfolio and power to take another deity's power. It would be like Tymora (luck goddess) sitting herself in the seat of Gruumsh (war god). Not only would she be a total fish out of water, her old portfolio would deteriorate and her current followers would abandon her due to the radical shift.

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Given how gods live and die based on their worshippers, the end result would be abandoning your old followers and crippling your amount of new ones.

stoic birch
white ravine
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That, and deities are defined by their followers. If you suddenly try absorbing another deity's position youll now have two radically different followers fighting over what you are which could very well tear you to pieces.

white ravine
stoic birch
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Cool, cool, this is all really useful info, thanks so much!

serene crater
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quick question, but would red wizards (even defected ones) work with madmen easily (sadists mainly, though other variants as well) or would they be begrudging or unwilling

white ravine
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Worst case scenario, spells like Geas exist.

stoic birch
white ravine
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But then again, the red wizards likely have much more reliable assets to use first

stoic birch
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^

serene crater
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and I mean people like toga from MHA

stoic birch
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I feel like The Red Wizards wouldn't "Work with them" so much as use them

white ravine
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The red wizards arent exactly new to the business, theyll slap a geas spell on anyone doing sensitive work long before they actually use them.

serene crater
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I mean the type of personality, as I'm looking for lore around them. I've got a few defective ones working alongside a group of Asmodeus fanatics as he's offering spots of power in his new era

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though I'm not sure if it would be a fragile alliance with them since theres someone who's a bit of a nutjob working alongside them

white ravine
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When a Geas spell is on the table, you really dont have to worry

serene crater
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isn't geas though mainly to serve whoever casted it

stoic birch
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I feel like Red Wizards and Asmodeus would be tenuous together, at best, pretty different outlooks and goals from both sides

white ravine
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Its the magical equivalent of a shock collar.

serene crater
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ah

white ravine
serene crater
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I thought that was bane

stoic birch
white ravine
serene crater
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huh

white ravine
serene crater
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though I figured "Hey, if you help me take over the world, I'll help you take all of Thay from Szass Tamm and conquer mortals"

stoic birch
white ravine
serene crater
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then again the ones working alongside Asmodeus defected from Thay

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at least the ones I've got prepped for my campaign

white ravine
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Nothing new, I'd suppose. Thay isnt exactly...stable.

serene crater
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then again mutiny's friday for them so I'm not surprised

white ravine
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Mhm.

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If one wizard makes an act against the group, they all kill that guy. Not because they dont feel the same, but by the fact that showing your hand means that your committing to 'I am the true ruler of Thay' and are now an enemy.

dense moat
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what deity/group does the crescent moon and tree symbol belong to? at the 37 second of the minecraft dnd crossover the symbol im asking about appears

mystic merlin
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I want to say it’s the emblem of the elf place… cormanthor?

scarlet sierra
glass jacinth
dense moat
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south carolina is canon

serene crater
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Quick question, but what kind of personality would sardior have if he's been portrayed in any way?

unkempt merlin
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playful on the surface, with a quick wit.

crude blaze
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My personal interpretation of Sardior would be to be super stoic and unemotional

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Tiamat and Bahamut are out there fighting passion-fueled battles against one another and others, Sardior is more of a logistical thinker and a neutral party who likes liked to stay out of the way.

unkempt merlin
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(he has had depictions in past editions that you can check if you want some old canon stuff, which is where i grabbed my bit from)

crude blaze
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Oh I just realized this is the lore channel and not the general chat channel

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It’s been… a long day 😅

serene crater
cobalt geode
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Are there any book like novels or something about lore for the mythic odyssey of Theros?

white ravine
cobalt geode
white ravine
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iunno lol

cobalt geode
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Alright

fringe dagger
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Are there any creatures in Dragonlance that didn’t appear in regular Dungeons & Dragons?

modest badger
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Draconians for one

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The races were also subtly different to the standard D&D races, like Kender being 'Not Hobbits'.

fringe dagger
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OK. Thanks.

mint ravine
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draconians are pretty cool in the new adventure book

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lots of different types

serene crater
cobalt geode
serene crater
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no, though its an online story on the website. Heliod got corrupted by the phyrexians

magic jackal
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Technically most current lore is that Phyrexian are all in a sort of stasis right now since the death of Elesh Norn and the imprisonment of New Phyrexia in a closed off pocket dimension.

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Which means that the compleated worshipers of Heliod are in stasis, so it's unclear if Heliod even exists and/or is compleated.

bold fern
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What's that one golem that will cause 25d20 of every damage type if it punches the Machine of Lum the Mad?

magic jackal
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If the Mighty Servant of Leuk-O attacks the Infernal Machine of Lum the Mad, it destroys both items in an explosion three times the area and damage of the Mighty Servant's Self-Destruct Ability. (Which does not do 25d20 of every damage type, I recommend reading the item's page for full details)

eager bay
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Do you see dragons as growing their whole lives?

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indefinite; perhaps able to go into Inheritance Cycle/Eragon territory

iron saffron
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Well, in the 5E lore in Fizban's ancient dragons because greatwyrms. I don't know the age cap for dragons in 5E though (there was in earlier editions).

eager bay
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Hold up, lemme get something to compare with Inheritance Cycle's dragons

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phooey, can't post pics here

iron saffron
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I've never read the Eragon books so I have nothing to compare it to.

eager bay
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well in those books dragons grow their whole lives

crude blaze
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In 5E, dragons grow based on age but also on other factors, like the size of their hoard. Once they get to a certain level, they become greatwyrms and ultimately are just basically minor deities.

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In fact, many of the named greatwyrms were considered “dragon gods” in the past.

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So conceivably any dragon can live forever. Very few make it that far before being killed by adventurers or other opposing forces.

iron saffron
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In previous editions, great wrym was the last age category (I think there were 12 in 3.5E). In 5E, great wryms are essentially demi-gods (they simultaneously exist as echoes on other worlds)

crude blaze
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Yeah, they’re often worshipped as gods, but aren’t officially recognized as gods in 5E (though I’m my opinion that’s just needless pedantry, you kinda know a god when you see one and greatwyrms kinda fit the bill).

eager bay
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or whatever

eager bay
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@austere nest can I get your opinion on something?

austere nest
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Sure go ahead

magic jackal
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Which is why not every dragon just turns into a greatwyrm.

That aside, I think dragon lifespans in fr at least are finite.

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Unlike Inheritance cycle dragons whose lifespans are all infinite unless they get actually killed.

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DND dragons need to achieve a multiversal apotheosis to gain immortality, or achieve Dracolichdom etc.

shrewd bobcat
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Strange one but, do Elves canonically never have facial hair?

zenith dust
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Depends on the setting

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For example it's uncommon in tolkien work but that's a choice rather than being unable. Cirdan had a long beard

shrewd bobcat
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Well, I was specifically referring to D&D

zenith dust
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Depends on the setting, I think it varies even based on which culture of elf

iron saffron
granite silo
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could use magic to give yourself a debonair mustache for an Elf pirate.

mellow ferry
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Typically, they can grow long sideburns at most, but not beards nor mustaches. I'm sure exceptions could exist, but they'd be very rare.

zenith dust
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For some people, forgotten realms is the only lore, and I think they don't have facial hair

white ravine
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There's a lot of places to start. Anything in DND that interests you?

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That can be anything from halfling pie recipes to elder evils in the elemental chaos

sharp owl
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@eager bay D&D itself doesn't have lore, as D&D is the game as a whole that contains many settings. It's the settings that have lore

dry pendant
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Here's an example list of some settings: forgotten realms, ravenloft, eberron, theros, spelljammer, Dragonlance, greyhawk

iron saffron
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Work with your DM because it's their campaign setting you'll be playing in.

spark haven
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If you have nowhere else to start, you could start here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

The Forgotten Realms is one of the more common settings you'll encounter. The information here, I've heard, is not as detailed as you would find in the actual published sourcebooks but the wiki does seem to have at least a little bit of information on "most" things

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more than enough to get the first draft of a character backstory put together.

shell gale
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Hey slight spoiler about the movie. Is there any truth that a ||wound caused by red wizards blade cannot be healed or the person resurrected?||

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I was like “||what’s the hassle? Just get them to a church and as long as they died in the last year they’re fine”||

iron saffron
shell gale
grim siren
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well they are all legendary items

iron saffron
shell gale
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Ah fair. So I guess sculpting the lore to fit the script

iron saffron
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Aka corporate synergy.

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They already did that for Rime of the Frostmaiden where they added the ||prison|| in that campaign after finding out the movie had created it.

shell gale
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Tbh I thought RJP had ||a sun blade but apparently just did magic weapon ||

crude blaze
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I think it was ||supposed to be reminiscent of Divine Smite|| but we have #1084851929903026196 for discussing film spoilers

obsidian gate
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soo, what are some named ancient green dragons that are not from the Realms? (I'm looking for possible echoes for Old Gnawbone, I would only make one up if I dont find anything official that interests me)

crude blaze
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Are you looking for like the same sort of personality? Textbook sly and malicious and manipulative?

obsidian gate
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similar personality, yes

iron saffron
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I don't know Greyhawk lore so.... shrug

obsidian gate
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hmm so I have two candidates but both are canonical dead, i think

unkempt merlin
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Worth noting an echo doesnt need to be the same color or even age category

magic jackal
obsidian gate
obsidian gate
unkempt merlin
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(It also doesn't even need to be the same personality, but I think some through-line of personality should be the main identifier)

magic jackal
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Not identical but similar in some ways, echo

obsidian gate
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yeah basically any ancient green will do.

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though, I would consider a different color if the personality or some other aspect fits very well

unkempt merlin
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Also: do you need the echo to actually be alive?

magic jackal
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What do you mean

unkempt merlin
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And well. Even if they are dead at some point in their timeline... nothings to say time flows the same between the realities.

obsidian gate
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but I guess I could rearrange timelines

magic jackal
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Echoes are reflections of the entity not the entity itself (until they become a Greatwyrm)
Ergo if one Echo dies, their reflections in every other world do not die.

unkempt merlin
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It's not like say, 1430 in the FR exactly matches 1430 in another setting. Could be wildly mismatched

crude blaze
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Yeah, there are even stories of echoes that hunt each other down in other worlds to consume one another.

obsidian gate
crude blaze
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It’s pretty much WOTC saying, “You want Old Gnawbone in your campaign setting? Throw her in there.”

magic jackal
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What if I want young Gnawbone

crude blaze
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Now you’re overstepping

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Gonna need you to reel it back in

final mica
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Is this the Homebrew Channel

crude blaze
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No

unkempt merlin
obsidian gate
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soo anyway, lets get back to named green dragons?

crude blaze
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I know there’s Zartarxis in Eberron, but I don’t think he canonically has the same personality as Old Gnawbone (which is common with Eberron, cuz dragons in that world aren’t inherently good or evil based on scale color).

obsidian gate
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I got ||Raishan|| and|| Cyan Bloodbane|| so far, both I beleive are dead if I dont readjust the timeline.

obsidian gate
crude blaze
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He’s the Green Watcher and kind of the protector of Xen’drik who makes sure the giants don’t try their bad workings again.

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He’s also notoriously very lazy.

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Pretty sure the only thing he has in common with her is that they’re both green lol

obsidian gate
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Ystravnil seems a good fit

storm dagger
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Should note Echoes explicitly can be quite similar to each other or have nothing in common

crude blaze
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Careful with directly posting chunks out of the paid books like this

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Oop, there it goes.

storm dagger
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I agreed with you

obsidian gate
dreamy mirage
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Quick lore question:
Do Dragonnels appear in the FR settings or are they a Greyhawk only thing?

obsidian gate
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they are in FR too

crude blaze
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Considering they’re technically in a setting agnostic book as of 5E, you could argue for them appearing in Greyhawk for 5E too.

dreamy mirage
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Thank you both!

iron saffron
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Greyhawk was the "default" setting until 3E so dragonnels would have been in that setting.

magic jackal
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Dragonnels appeared in 3rd Edition, in the Forgotten Realms, I know that much.

iron saffron
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Ah, sorry I was thinking of dragonne, which existed as far back as 1E.

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But yes, the dragonnels first appeared in 3E in the Draconomicon: The Book of Dragons.

minor comet
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This has definitely been asked before but are there any sources that tell people that Elminster had a great, great grandkid? Considering he’s like 1000 years old it sorta doesn’t make all that much sense

unkempt merlin
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The new movie does

iron saffron
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Ed Greenwood?

livid geyser
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new person looking for help here: just want to make sure I'm right in asserting that the regular zombies who do slam damage can have a weapon put in their hand and not need to be a special kind of zombie to swing it.

iron saffron
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This isn't the channel, we talk about official D&D lore from all editions, and not gameplay mechanics.

Perhaps ask in #dnd-discussion or #dm-discussion

livid geyser
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fair enough. was towing the line between lore and mechanics for me

crude blaze
white ravine
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They're not exactly the most...competent.

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
iron saffron
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I wrote "default" in air quotes because most of the published adventures were set in Greyhawk.

mystic merlin
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I don’t believe that to be true but it’s quite an onerous task to check

iron saffron
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Have at it.

unkempt merlin
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Mystara, Greyhawk, FR,and Nentir Vale

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Mystara is

This "Known World" served as the default campaign setting for the non-Advanced editions of D&D throughout the 1980s and 1990s.

iron saffron
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Yeah, that was the BCEMI.

Our group never really bothered with a campaign setting. We just played whatever module we thought was fun, be it BCEMI or 1E AD&D (but used the latter ruleset).

mystic merlin
iron saffron
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No, I understood. That's why I said, "Have at it" because I wasn't going to do it 😉

mystic merlin
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Quick skim shows 80-81 Greyhawk modules across the life of the game before the third edition.

The first two lists of not-Greyhawk tally almost as much; all of em for a total of 221, almost three times as many not-Greyhawk as Greyhawk modules.

There are some duplications on both lists, there are some missing, and there are some that count as both.

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Also Noteworthy that the 2000 third edition player’s handbook notes that the default setting is now Greyhawk and previously had not been, along with the 2e player’s handbook mentioning Wildspace as it’s default unifying force (iirc) and the 1e system not mentioning places or settings except for how to build your own

viscid dock
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So, I'm going to run a game for players in about 1-2 weeks and decided to make it in Faerun, the latest setting. The truth is, I don't really know much about deities, planes and history of Toril to convey them properly, if players would like to ask about these things during the game. Is there a way to learn important stuff without reading through loads of books to the very first edition?

sterile breach
hazy fox
white ravine
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DND lore is hard to make sense of to start but as pieces click itll make much more sense

viscid dock
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The wiki is a great resource, but you need to know the questions to get your answers. And there are so many questions you can ask about dnd, which is overwhelming.

However an adventure guide could be a good start, thanks.

white ravine
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Aye, just ask you need to

mystic merlin
hazy fox
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Yeah.
El Minister is like...someone who would beat meme!Bards in terms of love life.
Aforementioned illegitimate daughter being one of the results.

mystic merlin
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Nah. Elminster has a very normal amount of relationships for someone in his position and lifespan.

The bard tropes used to be sorcerer tropes used to be just adventurer tropes.

zinc latch
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So are the illithid gods in 5e still considered gods or just concepts? This explanation of them from Tome of Foes confuses me

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Two divine entities have long been associated with mind flayers by the scholars of other races. These aren’t deities, but rather manifestations of ideal psionic and philosophical mental states that mind flayers revere. Illithids occasionally meditate on these ideals while performing physical movements meant to help them achieve the proper attitude — actions that have often been misinterpreted by observers as worship.

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I intend on running a Planescape campaign and am considering using Ilsensine's realm, but I'm not sure if he's even still really a proper entity

iron saffron
crude blaze
# iron saffron Ilsensine was a greater god of the mind flayers back in 2E and 3E. No idea of th...

Per VGTM, 5E doesn’t fully treat Ilsensine and Maanzecorian as gods in a classical sense. They’re referred to as “manifestations of ideal psionic and philosophical mental states that mind flayers revere”. Which ultimately comes across to me as “something humanoids can’t fully understand from their own perspective, so we kinda refer to them as ‘gods’ for sake of ease and attempted comprehension”.

zinc latch
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so no more divine realms

toxic garden
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Btw does anyone have a detailed map of tolin?

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With town names

modest badger
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I'm not actually sure what Tolin is.

toxic garden
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I'm getting confused then. @modest badger what is the name of the world. Torin?

modest badger
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Ah, if you mean Forgotten Realms, Toril.

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If you google Toril map, you might find some, but not that usually books focus on Faerun (of which there is an official BIG map with all locations on it), and not the entirety of Toril, which most maps will likely be fan made

iron saffron
crude blaze
iron saffron
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Way back when I bought the 2E Monster Mythology I did find it weird that beholders and mind flayers would have gods.

crude blaze
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Even prior to VGtM, I never considered them to have gods. Maybe creatures that humanoids might consider to be their gods, but the relationship between an aberrant “god” with their “worshipper” would’ve been different.

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But hey. Lore, am I rite?

iron saffron
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Well, that same book had a couple demon lords as lesser gods...

crude blaze
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I personally don’t like to think that anything about an aberration’s way of life would make total sense to humanoids (or even vice versa), so they just try and attach their own perspective on each other, even when they don’t fully match 1:1.

pseudo wind
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I can't remember if it was said their origin was ambiguous or not

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I do like the idea that not all aberrations, or even most of them, don't come from the Far Realm. Bonus points if its something they openly oppose or fight the influence of, though not for good or benevolent reasons

iron saffron
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5E Volo's doesn't mention the Far Realm but in past editions the rule of thumb is that aberrations are from the Far Realm — they represented the Cthulhuian aliens

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The mortals' ideals of good and evil are alien to the creatures of the Far Realm. They're suppose to represent the Cthulhu alien nightmare.

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If you want to have good-aligned aberrations then you can have that at your table.

warm canopy
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In the forgotten realms, are chromatic dragons inherently evil, or are they nurtured to be evil?

pseudo wind
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Well not good aligned aberrations per se

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Simply another evil vs. evil scenario, something PCs can take advantage of

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illithids still strike me as odd because they're explicitly cruel and domineering towards the "lesser" races

iron saffron
# warm canopy In the forgotten realms, are chromatic dragons inherently evil, or are they nurt...

They're bad by nature, however, alignment isn't 100% so there are always exceptions to the rule. As per the Monster Manual on alignment:

The alignment specified in a monster’s stat block is the default. Feel free to depart from it and change a monster’s alignment to suit the needs of your campaign. If you want a good-aligned green dragon or an evil storm giant, there’s nothing stopping you.

iron saffron
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Not every creature has to be given a human analogy. Sometimes they're just alien to us, as we are to them.

pseudo wind
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In that context, then, them knowingly inflicting animal abuse is pretty damn comprehensible to me

iron saffron
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Hence why they're labelled as "evil"

crude blaze
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They’re so disconnected from the mortal way of life. We don’t need to make them playable.

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Not every monster needs to be playable.

pseudo wind
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Yeah

iron saffron
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Sometimes you need just monsters to kill without asking them about their code of ethics and morality first.

crude blaze
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Yup.

iron saffron
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My go to are demons and undead...

crude blaze
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For example, I don’t like having goblinoids and orcs as the “always murder on sight” enemies. But mind flayers?!

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The alien monster that literally treats the party as prey?!

pseudo wind
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Thats me for devils and demons

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"They didn't ask to be born evil" no but they sure as hells enjoy being evil

iron saffron
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Even with orcs I try to give some nuance as to why they're the bad guys. When I DMed Forge of Fury, I made the orcs there a splinter group from the orcs of Many Arrows kingdom (who have peace treaties with the humans and dwarves of the Spine of the World). This splinter group, Broken Arrow, wanted to go back to the old ways of raiding the human and dwarvish settlements.

crude blaze
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My thing with orcs is that like… I don’t mind them being evil. I do mind them being for no reason other than… they’re orcs.

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I don’t feel that way with mind flayers. They’re the predator, and everything on the material plane is the prey.

iron saffron
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It made the conflict between the PCs and the chief (an ogre) and sub-chief (his son, an orog) more interesting. The two would scream at each other during the fight, the son wanted his father's mantle as the chief of the tribe. It gave them a reason for being the antagonists while trying to avoid the moustache-twirling trope of "I'm the bad guy just because!"

Anyway, I digress...

pseudo wind
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The only time I saw a good "mind flayer" PC wasn't even a full fledged illithid. Its body was still that of an aaasimar but the tadpole in the brain couldn't finish eating the brain, and the aasimar's innate celestial blood ended up being constantly injected with foreign concepts like compassion and altruism. The downside was it initially treated those impulses like a drug, and only did good deeds because it felt good, not because it was the right thing to do. It came really close to fabricating problems for heroes to solve just to get its fix

crude blaze
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I mean, it’s easy enough to play a character that’s close to, but not entirely a mind flayer. Not only does Aberrant Mind sorcerer toy with that idea, but I think Dhampir lineage does as well.

pseudo wind
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Yeah it's the only acceptable way for me, a watered down version

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In the same way I'd never let a playable vampire, but dhampir on the other hand...

crude blaze
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Same

mystic merlin
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I don’t have illithids as pure alien because they’re cruel almost as a point of pride. They aren’t doing animal abuse in the “eh, it’s a lesser creature” sense, they’re inflicting suffering on other sophonts on purpose, with the most pragmatic deciding sometimes not to because it’s a hassle.

They’re alien in biology but their drives are very human.

iron saffron
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How do you know their drive is human? Not everything is human in thinking. Not every monster needs to be anthropomorphized.

Octopi and dolphins are very intelligent but they don't have human drives.

pseudo wind
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You're right, but then, I don't think that needs to be mutually exclusive with illithids at least

bitter coral
# mystic merlin I don’t have illithids as pure alien because they’re cruel almost as a point of ...

not sure where your getting your illithid lore from but illithids only interact with other species for two reasons, procreation via implanting illithid tadpoles into the creatures head via the eyes, or for food by feasting on their mental energy (brains). occasionally theyve also been known to enslave some they capture and use them as a labor force or meat shields. illithids look at humanoids the way we look at livestock most of the time.

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also theyre from the far realm, which is lovecraftean in theme. they are undoubtably alien

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honestly, of all the monsters in the D&D verse, they scare me the most, and ima GM lol.

mystic merlin
# bitter coral not sure where your getting your illithid lore from but illithids only interact ...

They also interact with them for slavery, they also will replace the brain of a sentient preacher and reconstructor personality, using grey goo, in order to make the perfect sleeper agent spies, and there is a slim, but still existing chance that the mind flayer empire is what bar, for future humans evolved into and they have come back in time (possibly fleeing an even more insidious threaten them themselves)

Source for the slavery and the killing backwards in time from being future humans is the second edition set of books. Slavery is also perpetrated by them in third fourth and fifth edition.

The sleeper agent spies exist in third and fourth edition. Prior to that they simply used mind control magic.

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The monstrous compendium and illithiad for 2e and monster manual 3(?) for the void mind template.

bitter coral
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what they do seems cruel to us, to them its just natural course

mystic merlin
# bitter coral yeah but their use of slaver is pragmatic, not malicious

If that were true, they could instead use automatons or less, intelligent beast of burden.

They also intentionally reconstruct sinking creatures with free will, but was a mind control back door protocol. They are Lord, also discusses them being evil, willingly and knowingly, as opposed to that being the teleological output of their behavior.

bitter coral
# mystic merlin If that were true, they could instead use automatons or less, intelligent beast ...

theres an explanation for that too, which also tells me you dont know your illithid lore. Illithids are psionic creatures, and dont understand magic. Illithids are known to completely ignore magic items in fact because they view it as something alien to them. on very rare instances a rogue illithid will attempt to learn magic, and other illithid view those that do the same way the living would view undead.

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so no infact they would NOT use constructs or automatons cus those are magical creations.

mystic merlin
bitter coral
mystic merlin
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Psion killer.

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Or the constructs from the level 1 psionic power.

bitter coral
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good talk

mystic merlin
#

There is also the craft so ionic, construct feet, expanded sonic handbook, page 45.

magic jackal
#

Few monsters inspire as much horror or terror as the illithids. They are rightly feared by everyone and everything. Few can match them in undiluted evil, cruelty, or cunning. Their origins are cloaked in mystery, their plans are enigmatic, and their culture and thought processes are utterly alien.
3.5e Lords of Madness: The Book of Aberrations

#

seems the canon suggests they're both cruel and also alien in their thought processes.

#

just to clear that confusion up.

mystic merlin
#

A psion-killer (also called a crystal golem) is 9-1/2 feet tall and weighs around 2,500 pounds. Its body is composed of sharply faceted crystal.
Despite their psion-specific name, these golems are created to be the bane of all psionic creatures and characters. Their crystal bodies are sometimes carved with symbols promising death to psionic beings and often also bear utilitarian psionic tattoos.

#

So it turns out the Sion killer, and the crystal golem are the same thing. That’s good to know for archival purposes.

bitter coral
#

i always thought of constructs as magical animations, could be wrong

#

in 2nd ed i remember every golem had a manual that was the recipe for its construction

mystic merlin
#

This is a 9 1/2 foot tall golem made of red crystal animated with psychic power

bitter coral
#

animations always been a somewhat undefined area of lore in dnd. for example whats the difference between animate dead and animate object? are animated dead powered by necrotic energy, negative energy, are these the same thing? if undead are powered by necrotic energy why are they not immune or even heal it. what energy then animates an object? this is the start of a rabbit hole.

unkempt merlin
#

Do you have a particular setting in mind with those questions? Cause answers vary

bitter coral
mystic merlin
#

Animating, the dead conjures, a negative energy spirit into the body, animating objects, usually present a facsimile of animation versus a will. Zombies are the one big outlier, and even then they used to be primarily shackles into obedience by the spell with the spirit inside being intelligent, but unable to do much.

unkempt merlin
white ravine
solemn nacelle
#

3 weeks ago my baby brain was mind blown the he sword coast was part of a bigger map called faerun. today it just exploded after finding out faerun is just a continent on a planet/globe called Abeir-Toril

distant brook
#

So does each of Tiamat’s heads act independently of each other or do they act as some sort of collective hive mind?

iron saffron
#

Yes.

mystic merlin
white ravine
mystic merlin
#

This isn’t positively confirmed but since everyone else is noted as not doing this and she is referred to singularly

iron saffron
solemn nacelle
#

WTH

#

no

#

lies

#

all lies

mystic merlin
iron saffron
#

Abeir and Toril were once merged but split... then merged again... and then separated again.

mystic merlin
# solemn nacelle WTH

The two separate planets “collided” and became one world “again” as part of the fourth edition Lord change. They are functionally do different planets, but they were supposed to be the same plan it, so it will be, as if half of earth was shunted into a different dimension.

white ravine
#

Thus, Abeir and Toril. Land of Primordials and Land of Gods.

iron saffron
#

Abeir is the home planet of dragonborn. They arrived on Toril during 4E when two planets "merged"

solemn nacelle
#

Dear god, i thought dnd was just funni dice game at first, now i wanna spend the next year of my life devoted to learning every bit of lore out there

iron saffron
solemn nacelle
#

Ima gonna cry like im studying for my doctorate finals lol

#

(I am not becoming a doctor, that was a joke)

white ravine
#

Itll make more sense as it goes on with time

iron saffron
#

Maztica and Halruaa were transported to Abeir but now they're back (the wizards of the kingdom of Halruaa teleported their nation to Abeir during the Spellplague for safety (I believe))

pseudo wind
#

that's what makes the whole "aberrant alien" angle more scary for me actually, not just being incomprehensible in many ways but being terrifyingly comprehensible in how much they hate us

iron saffron
#

Recently my PCs went to one of the Tears of Selune (the asteroids that orbit with the moon) and I had the battlemap show the globe of Toril "below" the asteroid. My players were surprised how far they travelled when I pointed out where Waterdeep was and where they went to (Tashluta and Halruaa).

grim siren
#

That 4e moment where they added a whole continent, Laerakond. And then never talked about it again.

grim siren
iron saffron
iron saffron
grim siren
#

Yeah the placement is not great but it's what I could source from Ed Greenwood when I spoke to him at a con as to its location.

iron saffron
#

My players' PCs will be sailing from Tashluta to around the Chult peninsula, near the Mother-of-Mist, then down towards Nimbral towards the "F" of Faerun where the Isle of Dread will be located (I'm doing a 5E conversion of the 3.5E Dungeon Magazine adventure path, Savage Tide)

#

Currently they're in the western mountain range of Halruaa (aka "Barrier Peaks" as I've set the Lost Laboratory of Kwalish there)

grim siren
#

Nice. When I ran Lost lab I set it in the Yehmals. Running a halruaa game now and those 2e supplements are saving my life.

fast totem
#

Jesus man I didn’t even know dnd had a larger map

#

I need to read some of the books ig

grim siren
#

There is a guy Jorphdan on YouTube. Look him up. Very good lore vids

fast totem
#

I absolutely will, thank you for telling me that.

iron saffron
#

I had planned personal side quest for a bladesinger wizard PC set in Halruaa, taking inspiration from the Valley of the Mage and Return of the Eight (yes I know they're both set in Greyhawk). That PC would have found out that the wizard-king's estranged brother, who got exiled to The Hath, is his long lost father. Regrettably, that player had to leave the game due to personal family matters.

grim siren
#

Eh the eight are soft realms canon imo now with Mordenkainen in the realms as of 5e

iron saffron
iron saffron
fast totem
#

I mostly assumed that it was a game almost entirely outlined by a players perception

#

No official maps or locations

iron saffron
#

The campaign settings of Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms have as old (if not older) than D&D itself.

grim siren
#

The way I integrated warforged into Faerûn was via Imaskari. If anyone would have the tech to make them It's them imho

fast totem
#

It surprised me when I learned that there are people who directly dislike dms making their own items, races, and classes for their campaign

iron saffron
grim siren
#

The realms predates the game by like 10ish years.

iron saffron
grim siren
iron saffron
fast totem
#

Yeah, some people hate homebrew though, I honestly thought that it was an essentially integral part of the experience

grim siren
iron saffron
iron saffron
fast totem
#

I always viewed d&d as an outline for people to use, weapons were just what the game gave you, I thought literally everyone was homebrewing all the time

grim siren
#

99% of us are. 😉

grim siren
iron saffron
#

I just introduced a spelljamming helm at the end of the Lost Laboratory of Kwalish. One of the crew of Anaxi is a zodar nicknamed, "Hogarth" (my players got the reference) and it wants a helm, which some githyanki stole from Kwalish and took it to an outpost on a Tear of Selune.

My players had thought the "helm" was a helmet and kept demanding the githyanki where this helmet was. (I had to suppress my chuckles every time)

#

So even though I have to nix my adventure featuring most of Halruaa I'm going to keep elements of it by introducing the PCs to the Halruaan royal court of the wizard-king. He's hundreds of years old and one of the greatest diviners, so he knows everything that enters his kingdom.

#

I'm currently working on a side quest for a new player's PC based on a Dungeon magazine adventure so I'm setting it on the outskirts of Halruaa in a village near the western mountains.

grim siren
#

takes notes for when my party meets the netenyarch next session

iron saffron
#

I like having the PCs in the southern part of Faerun because I got tired of the European-centric Sword Coast.

grim siren
#

Same my favorite all time regions are Bloodstone and the unapproachable east

iron saffron
#

The 2E and 3E FR modules took place all around Faerun. We got the occasional non-Sword Coast adventure in the 5E anthologies.

grim siren
#

Have you seen the non sword coast source books for 5e on DMsGuild?

iron saffron
#

I was looking forward to have the PCs explore The Hath where there are surface drow (I got inspired to set it there after being reminded of the cover art of The Valley of the Mage). I created a half-drow Magehound, who turns out to be the half-sister of the bladesinger PC...

iron saffron
grim siren
#

For me the best ones are Great Dale, Rashemen, and Thay.

Those had input from Ed. Really good updates and available for Print on demand.

There is also a 300 page Zakhara one.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, I'm tempted to get Ed's Thay book.

#

He would be the one 3rd party I would trust with FR lore on DMs Guild.

grim siren
#

Really good and they got Mike schely to do the maps.

His Zhentarim guide is also very very well done.

meager tiger
#

is this canon dnd lore or homebrew stuff too?

iron saffron
meager tiger
#

the channel itself

iron saffron
#

From the channel description at the top:

For discussion of the lore of the various official D&D settings. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're talking about, eg [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

meager tiger
#

my bad

tardy wasp
#

I’ve been reading about lycanthropes in previous editions, who should be evil if they accepted their particular strain of the curse, that were actually quite heroic creatures. Like, chaotic good werewolves and lawful good wererats in FR.

And I can’t find any lore on how that was supposed to work.

spark haven
#

Turns out the world isn't nearly so black and white

#

There's not really a lore book where the writers say "And then there was born a powerful goddess, whose name was Moral Ambiguity". The writers just decided that it's really boring to say "oh these guys are just always permanently evil no matter what"

#

Sometimes, a bad thing happens to a person that causes them to experience things they maybe can't control, but they can choose to try to make the world a better place anyways.

#

don't get me wrong, there's still evil werewolves who literally just enjoy the whole procedure of being a wanton maelstrom of tooth and claw

#

but essentialism ends up being a real hindrance to flexible storytelling

raven zodiac
#

the spellplague was dated to ~1390 and most campaigns are playing in year 1490~ , so the spellplague, before which lvl 10+ spells were real

#

so every dwarven/elven etc "child" has witnessed that ?

raven needle
raven zodiac
#

but the event itself , they would have witnessed?

#

I.e people from neverwinter

raven needle
#

I mean, it affected the very geography of Toril, so yes

#

of course, there was also the second sundering and the eruption of mt hotenow since then, so it's questionable how much they care about the spellplague in the distant past;)

spark haven
#

It was probably witnessed the way volcanic eruptions are. People close by see fireballs and pillars of ash. people on the other side of the world see unusually long winters, drought, disease

viscid dock
#

Are Ao and Io - different deities? Or are they simply different pronunciations?

arctic shard
#

Different Dieties altogether

viscid dock
#

These names are hella confusing, dang

iron saffron
#

Ao is the overgod of Realmspace
Io is the supreme dragon god (also called Asgorath)

bitter coral
#

i thought io was a titan

stuck breach
#

The name "Ao" is inspired by the line in Revelation 22:14 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," i.e. the beginning and the end (alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega the last).

Ao fills a similar mythological niche to Yahweh, the Biblical creator god in the lore as the creator of the universe.

spark haven
#

I'm partial to Eru Illuvatar as an analogy myself. Way more chill. Into music.

crude blaze
#

Also a great analogy, yeah

#

The far-more-distant “All-god”

spark haven
#

who gods the godmen

mossy dust
#

The god of all godmen must be his noodly goodness, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, right?

sorry, had to throw that out there. 😄

bitter coral
mystic merlin
white ravine
solemn nacelle
#

can lycanthropes master their lycanthropy and fully control it?

shrewd bobcat
#

I don't see any reason they can't.
I mean, there's nothing that says they can't

iron saffron
#

From the MM:

A lycanthrope can either resist its curse or embrace it. By resisting the curse, a lycanthrope retains its normal alignment and personality while in humanoid form. It lives its life as it always has, burying deep the bestial urges raging inside it. However, when the full moon rises, the curse becomes too strong to resist, transforming the individual into its beast form — or into a horrible hybrid form that combines animal and humanoid traits.

magic jackal
#

Lorewise there are some examples of Lycanthropes attempting to control the curse for one reason or another. Were-Ravens I believe for example

mystic merlin
# solemn nacelle can lycanthropes master their lycanthropy and fully control it?

In some versions! 3.5 had a skill you could only learn if you were an afflicted lycanthrope that allowed you to control yourself enough not to lose your selfhood to the curse.

Generally if you’re a lycanthrope on purpose you have some measure of control, as seen in 5e’s blood hunter and the way some folks flavor barbarian

solemn nacelle
#

Thank for this info but i was more thinking can someone master it to the point where they can be fully transformed into their were-self but still maintain there consciousness

mystic merlin
#

In some versions, yes! 3.5 had a skill you could only learn if you were an afflicted lycanthrope a that allowed you to control yourself enough to to lose your selfhood to the curse.

#

Control Shape (Wis)
Any character who has contracted lycanthropy and is aware of his condition can learn Control Shape as a class skill. (An afflicted lycanthrope not yet aware of his condition can attempt Control Shape checks untrained.) This skill determines whether an afflicted lycanthrope can control his shape. A natural lycanthrope does not need this skill, since it has full control over its shape.
[…]

Check (Voluntary Change)
In addition, an afflicted lycanthrope aware of his condition may attempt to use this skill voluntarily in order to change to animal form, assume hybrid form, or return to humanoid form, regardless of the state of the moon or whether he has been injured.

iron saffron
#

I believe naturally born lycanthropes can control their affliction.

mystic merlin
#

Yep, it’s actually right there in the first paragraph

#

A natural born lycanthrope trends toward its “racial alignment” but like any individual can choose to be otherwise.

solemn nacelle
#

Cool, now to make a werebear npc in my campaign whos chill and lives in a shack near the lake and fishes everyday and it can be RAW

white ravine
#

Werebears already are like that

#

Theyre very druid-y in how they operate despite being powerhouses

mystic merlin
#

Chill is not how I would describe them, myself. They’re based off the werebear in the hobbit, who was angry at the orcs for deforestation and who Gandalf was like “yo don’t smack talk this guy or his forest, I can’t save you if you do”

obtuse bloom
#

hello i have a couple questions about liches!

#

What does it take to become a lich ?

#

Do liches use only undead as their minions ?

#

If someone bacame a lich not soo long ago would they still look "undead"

mossy dust
#

if you google lich you can find a pretty good writeup about much of that in the forgotten realms wiki

obtuse bloom
#

or normally untill they "died"? or do you have to die to become a lich ?

mossy dust
#

Liches are not usually accidental creations, they require magic and planning

#

there are exceptions of course, but traditionally they put their life force in a phylactery

#

after completing many spells, rituals, etc.

#

Turning yourself into a Lich wasn't an easy process either, doing it improperly could leave you permanently dead (no raise dead or resurrection for you), or a weakened version of a lich

#

Becoming a Lich was often the life's work (pun intended) of an evil spellcaster (usually wizard, sometimes cleric)

obtuse bloom
#

and does a "fresh" lich have the same abilities as someone who was a lich for centuries ?

mossy dust
#

nope

#

a lich who has been a lich for centuries never stopped researching magic

#

they will have stronger defenses, more minions, etc.

#

If you were making a 'new' lich, I would have them without minions or a much of a lair.

obtuse bloom
#

and how should i change their statblock ?

mossy dust
#

you wouldn't, other than lair

obtuse bloom
#

okay

mossy dust
#

Treat it as a lich out of their lair if they don't have access to all the lair abilities

#

Lich out of lair is CR 21, in lair is CR 22

#

Also, a young lich would probably not have much in the way of minions built up.

#

Some minions of course, after all they have access to level 9 spells. So plenty of animated dead and minions from create undead

#

but the more complicated undead would be, rarer or not present.

obtuse bloom
#

okay

mossy dust
#

Basically, if a spell could create it, they would have access to it. But if there is no spell for that type of undead it would be 'other means of acquisition' which would probably take time to achieve after becoming a lich

white ravine
# obtuse bloom What does it take to become a lich ?

The typical and full process of lichdom requires this:

A phylactery (no less than 2000 gp or made of wood)
A special poison to drink (ill get to that)
Cast Enchant an Item (basic magic item starter kit), Trap the Soul (yourself into the phylactery), and then Magic Jar (to place your body in the phylactery)
Exit the Magic Jar (it nukes a level off of you, and you need 1d6+1 days to rest before you can cast higher level spells)

#

After you die, you'll go into the phylactery and can possess any fresh corpse within 90 feet. Any.

#

However, you need to find your old corpse and bring it back. After that, you eat your own carcass and it reforms you fully.

#

Here's the poison's ingredients:

2 pinches of pure arsenic.
1 pinch of belladonna.
1 measure of fresh phase spider venom (under 30 days old).
1 measure of fresh wyvern venom (under 60 days old).
The blood of a dead humanoid infant killed by a phase spider.
The blood of a dead humanoid infant killed by a mixture of arsenic and belladonna.
The heart of a virgin humanoid killed by wyvern venom.
1 quart of blood from a vampire or a person infected with vampirism.
The ground reproductive glands of 7 giant moths (head for less than 60 days).

#

Then, after all of the work for the poison, you throw a d100.

#

1-10, your hair falls out but your fine. Try again.

#

11-40, you go into a coma for 2-7 days, but it takes.

#

41-70, your feebleminded until its dispelled with a 10% chance to kill you when attempting a dispel, but it takes.

#

71-90, your paralyzed for 4-14 days with a 30% chance to lose 1-6 dexterity permanently, but it takes.

#

91-96, your deaf, mute, and blind. Only wish can fix it, but it takes.

#

97-100, your dead. Get your minion to grab a resurrection scroll and try again.

modest badger
#

which source was that? Dragmag or lords of darkness?

white ravine
#

Dragmag

#

But yeah, congratulations! You are now a freak of nature!

iron saffron
#

And a NPC.

eager bay
#

How common would you say clerics are?

iron saffron
#

As common as there are gods to be worshipped

#

No gods? No clerics (see Dragonlance during pre-War of the Lance)

unkempt merlin
#

It's setting dependent

#

Clerics in the FR are fairly rare

crude blaze
#

Also kinda campaign dependent

unkempt merlin
#

Mhm

crude blaze
#

Like you could play in one iteration of Forgotten Realms where there are a bunch of clerics, followed by an iteration of Forgotten Realms where you’re one of a handful.

warm canopy
#

I believe the phb says that they are pretty rare seeing as they’re the true worshippers of gods

eager bay
unkempt merlin
#

Clerics in for example Eberron are somewhat more common. Especially as Clerics there also include plenty of Clerics who are Clerics by nature of their abilities but are really powerful dragonmark abilities

unkempt merlin
snow laurel
#

Ok weird question. So Faerun, which is Abeir-Toril's rough equivalent to Europe in real world ecology and geography, has two major deserts, the Calim and Anauroch deserts, but neither of these are "natural", yes? Both of these areas were temperate at one point before being deforested?

eager bay
eager bay
unkempt merlin
#

Not even necessarily

warm canopy
unkempt merlin
#

Philosophy Clerics might not be "answering" any sort of calling but their belief grants them the abilities

iron saffron
#

Not all priests of a god are clerics (as in with cleric class levels).

warm canopy
#

The one where netheril once was was during that time at leaslt

iron saffron
eager bay
warm canopy
#

Think that was in the 1490s

unkempt merlin
#

Clerics who espouse an ideal or philosophy are still clerics
An official example

does not worship a deity, but rather an ideal: that truth gives life to artistry and beauty, and that those who embrace deceit should be censured and punished. Light is her domain.

warm canopy
#

Because according to the legend of drizzt books, in 1484 they were still together

unkempt merlin
#

Or an eberron example

You might also consider your dragonmark the source of any or all of your spells or class features. As a cleric with the Mark of Healing, for example, you could say your mark is the sole source of the healing and supportive spells you cast, or your magic might come from a combination of your mark's power and your faith in the gods

iron saffron
#

Even in 3.5E's Deities and Demigods it says that not all clerics are servants of a deity but can be of a force or an ideal. So yes, there can be "atheist" clerics (similar to 5E paladins swear to an oath rather than to a god).

unkempt merlin
#

Note the last sentence: it's just faith that gives the abilities

warm canopy
#

God doesn’t have to be real

unkempt merlin
#

Gods will often coop that faith and "claim" clerics in other settings

#

But they aren't needed

iron saffron
#

As early as 2E Planescape, clerics got their spells from their faith (up to level 2, I believe). This was very convenient when the cleric was on an Outer Plane opposite of their deity's and cut off from their divine source.

unkempt merlin
#

Mhmm

#

Spelljammer and planescape had similar things for getting around the "what happens if you leave the area of influence of your diety" problem of the settings
Essentially summing up to "you don't actually need the diety"

iron saffron
#

Gods need followers to maintain/increase their divine power. Greater gods have more followers than lesser gods/demi-gods.

#

Most clerics didn't get their power (aka spells) directly from their gods, in fact. Usually the higher level spells were granted by a proxy, like an angel for good-aligned clerics.

eager bay
mystic merlin
# white ravine The typical and full process of lichdom requires this: A phylactery (no less th...

This is outdated and combines stuff I think

Liches stopped possessing bodies and started reforming from scratch in 2004, 2005 (3.5 change over), and the requirement to find and consume your own body was specific to dracoliches, I thought (it was one of their limiting factors since dracolith wasn’t an intentional good end state but one of being controlled by a mortal)

Would be interesting to revisit liches throughout the years again. I know initially they didn’t revive at all and had no phylactery, and at one point they could cast spells without expending spellslots? Was wild

#

My favorite lich origin is with a magic user is slowly desiccated from the inside out by enchanted radiation dndLol

raven needle
#

was doing some work on creating a puzzle in abyssal. it was fun, but as I was researching, I saw primordial uses the Barazhad script, but auran, acquan and ignan use the Iokharic script. that seems weird. anybody know if that's right? if so, why? or the forgotten realms wiki got it wrong?

mystic merlin
pale stump
#

they've been separated for like, what, 10-15 years?

#

last time they were merged was 4e

iron saffron
#

Yes, but they're now separate planets again.

#

(I pretty much ignore the 4E FR lore changes... and I think WotC did too as it seemed they retconned a lot of that)

pale stump
#

detriments that I assume will be gone with the 5e reboot

pale stump
#

especially the axis cosmology, i'm really glad they got rid of it

white ravine
solemn nacelle
#

Can a wizard use the clone spell to turn himself into a lich?

iron saffron
#

I don't see how that would lead to lichdom.

solemn nacelle
#

How are liches made then?

iron saffron
#

Scroll up. People were discussing how to achieve lichdom in past editions several hours ago.

unkempt merlin
white ravine
#

At least a cleric in hell can still use a hammer

magic jackal
white ravine
#

Correct.

white ravine
solemn nacelle
#

thanks

eager bay
iron saffron
#

It takes affect.

eager bay
#

aah

sour trout
#

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that there are certain gems associated with each school of magic, but I can't seem to find it now.

#

did I hallucinate that?

#

I want a good gem to associate with a powerful illusion effect

white ravine
#

They're not entirely associated with each magic school, but there are gems with specific 'effects' when applied in gem magic.

#

Jade for example works with illusions and phantasm spells like phantasmal force.

#

Zarbrina (Cerussite) as well was associated with illusionary magic

mystic merlin
#

We have the world, and it’s echoes surrounded by the Astral Sea leading to four distant, outer realms of Gods and Horrors

magic jackal
#

I wish the axis cosmology was an axes cosmology and all about how the worlds are a bunch of spinning axes

#

I will also accept a bunch of axes lined up with a hole through each that you have to shoot an arrow through with an impossible to string or draw bow.

grim siren
#

isn't the great wheel the cosmology in 5e?

iron saffron
#

Yes

#

It replaced the Great Tree cosmology in the Forgotten Realms.

grim siren
last orchid
#

Hey so right now the main NPC of the entire campaign is this cute Dhampir bladesinging wizard who has her bloodlust under wraps because of an ioun stone of sustenance. It got stolen once and the party saw what it turned her into. How would she find a more permanent fix?

iron saffron
#

This seems more like a gameplay mechanic issue than official D&D lore-related one.

mystic merlin
grim siren
#

I mean they are in the current great wheel and they effectively merged with plane of shadow and plane of fairy

rough fractal
#

So I know remarkably little about anything East of the Anaroch Desert in Faerun but the campaign I'm about to start (I think) would be great to send to an exotic location. What are the highlights of East Faerun? What should I be looking at?

grim siren
rough fractal
#

Well this is a game that just took a hiatus, so we're picking up after a time skip. My main vibe is just something that feels foreign or almost alien to anyone who has only played (or run) near the Sword Coast. New antagonists and threats, cultures and people's, groups and nations and organizations, etc

white ravine
#

If your high enough level, throw em into another plane. It's a major wakeup call for any player that says high level games arent difficult

#

Woe, week without rest be upon ye.

grim siren
rough fractal
#

Level 12, but single player and not built for combat

rough fractal
rough fractal
grim siren
#

I love it. I have it Print on Demand. There is also a book about neighboring Narfell, land of the demon hunters

scarlet epoch
#

I'm trying to think of some firearms that would be legal in a society where the power or magazine capacity of firearms are limited
Example(s): 5-shot revolver, 1-shot shotgun

#

I'm running a campaign set in the future

#

Also, which gunslinger trick-shots would work best for an automatic weapon (for a boss character)?

iron saffron
#

I don't know why this question would be in #dnd-lore

queen sand
#

Can goliath males have facial hair or otherwise?

zenith dust
#

who knows, they're changing goliaths completely

queen sand
#

Well, the most recent iteration?

zenith dust
#

they can grow facial hair, most don't

lofty shuttle
#

Anyone here go through the Journeys Through the Radiant Citadel adventures? I'm not sure which of these adventure locations are in the Ethereal plane or the Material plane.

sharp owl
#

Why is it you need to know where they take place?

lofty shuttle
#

ah I dont mean to spoil anything, should I ask elsewhere?

#

Im just trying to understand the setting, the book isn't very clear whether these "civilizations" linked to the Radiant Citadel are in the ethereal plane or the material plane

#

like, is it just this on city (Radiant Citadel) thats in the ethereal plane and everything else is in the material plane?

sharp owl
lofty shuttle
#

hmm yeah I read that, still a bit confused about what - if anything - actually occurs in the ethereal plane. thanks, I see I can ask in The Radiant Citadel subforum in #1029833015423143957 , ill check there

spark haven
#

what - if anything - actually occurs in the ethereal plane
As I understand it, the Ethereal is pretty strictly a sort of "liminal" space. Nothing is native there, nothing wants to reside there. It's a space in-between other spaces, a place you move through to get to other places.

there are people who live there, but they're from somewhere else. there are places and people and combat encounters to be had, but nobody's "home"

green sigil
#

In regard to Tiefling bloodlines are they considered to be directly related to the Fiends ? Like sons and Daughters of the Fiend and a Human. Just like Half Gods in Greek Mythology. Or are the bloodlines Diluted and more complicated ?

crude blaze
#

Of course, that’ll depend on setting. Like iirc tieflings are just descendants of a group of ancient mages that were cursed by Asmodeus or something? So it’s less about being directly descended from a devil and more about being part of a cursed bloodline (which is personally my least favorite interpretation).

mystic merlin
# grim siren I mean they are in the current great wheel and they effectively merged with plan...

My point is that the great queen has an axis through the world and the world axis still has an orbiting periphery, so they’re a lot more alike than you’d think and the current model forsook some of the “defining” traits of the great wheel.

The elemental planes are still distinct instead of Limbo being the whole of it. But cosmologically they’re incredibly similar and the current model in practice is closer to the Axis than not.

steady verge
#

Whats the best source of information on the Feywild and also the deities of the Feywild/Material Plane?

#

Can be 5e, does not have to be, just has to be somewhat easily accessible

white ravine
#

The various Manual of the Planes books across editions are a good place to start

grim siren
grim siren
# mystic merlin My point is that the great queen has an axis through the world and the world axi...

I get what your saying but its still not the world axis model which is presented as a entirely separate model in the DMG.

As the sages took in more of the worlds and more cosmoglical ideas they adopted parts of the world axis model into the Great wheel. As in replacing the plane of fairy and plane of shadow with the new feywild and shadowfel.

The Elemental Chaos was also added as a plane that encompasses only the elemental planes. Its considered the far reaches of the inner planes and nothing more.

The Great Wheel for 5e was updated to include these three planes. The Quasi Elemental planes are absent from the map mostly due to map simplification. In a map of the innner planes the Para-Elemental planes are still present.

Sigil and the Concordant Opposition (Outlands) is also absent from the great wheel map of 5e but they are directly mentioned again in the DMG and in the PHB.

While its not the same Great Wheel as 2e and OG Planescape, its considered an updated version of that Great Wheel.

The Astral plane has been around as this link between the planes since 1e. It was just renamed to Astral Sea in 4e.

mystic merlin
# steady verge Whats the best source of information on the Feywild and also the deities of the ...

[3e] There is a series of articles by Gwendolyn Kestrel archived from the old wizards official site, Fey Feature, which details a very Shakespearean court structure and some terrains. You’ll have to dig for them, the archives are dead.

[4e] the book Heroes of the Feywild(?) is the definitive Feywild book, being the first book written on the feywild and the first book to consider Faerie a core part of the game and not an optional thing you could maybe include possibly if you wanted; prior to this, the court of stars, the celestial abode of the ghael eladrin, was the sole “fey” thing we had going

[5e] wild beyond the witchlight is… okay, although not very useful for not itself. There is a charity item, though, Domains of Delight, which details the entirety of what we have for the feywild now outside of the DMG itself.
Honorable mention to the third party adventure Courts of the Shadow Fey

mystic merlin
# grim siren I get what your saying but its still *not* the world axis model which is present...

There was no plane of faerie in the great wheel. It was an optional demiplane if you chose you have it or change the cosmology, they functioned almost entirely differently. The feywild is now a transitive plane in much the same way the demiplane of shadow used to be (and the shadowfell maybe still is?)

The actual use structure of how the planes interacted is different enough that handwaving away they’re entirely Distinct in function is a disservice to understanding, imo. The existence of a plane via position, coterminous or noncongruous, transitive or nontransitive and the interplay of energies through the structure is a big part of what makes a cosmological model distinct.

That’s sort of the founding stone of this. If we look at it as “they just renamed faerie and the astral” then why are we letting world axis was bad stand? It was fairly similar, more accessible, and the hard mechanics weren’t different enough to make it lesser. If we are instead focusing on the differences and distinctions, then it becomes misleading to consider the updated great wheel closer to the old great wheel than the world axis!

#

A major one now is that the astral sea still follows the world axis model insofar as allowing access to all planes and allowing teleportation on all planes, versus the great wheel’s separation where teleportation and some conjuration effects failed due to the astral not touching this part of the planes you were on

#

the astral plane has been around as this link between the planes since 1e

Outer planes, yee
I actually wonder if it goes back farther? I don’t think it was in the 3BB, I don’t think any planar data was.

I know basic eschewed it entirely and focused hard on the ethereal and elements, eventually evolving to not even have outer planes as we would understand them… 🤔

grim siren
#

So the Astral Plane was the connective tissue of the outer planes in OG Planescape.

Now, primes tend not to notice any of this because the Prime Material Plane's connected to all the other planes, either through the Ethereal or Astral. The same just ain't true for the Inner and Outer Planes. The Inner Planes are cut off from the Astral Plane (and thus the Outer Planes) while the Outer Planes are cut off from the Ethereal (and thus the Inner Planes).

  • Planescape Campaign Guide Boxed Set

In the 5E DMG, Using the Astral Sea Color Pools the biggest change is you can get to the Ethereal Plane from the Astral but the inner planes (even the Feywild and Shadowfel) are absent from the rollable table.

The Far Alien Realm is also not exclusive to the World Axis Model with its mention first cropping up in 3rd edition during the days of the World Tree in the Realms and the final days of the OG Great Wheel.

You misunderstand me I do not think the world axis is a bad cosmology. I think of the three presented in the DMG its the weakest. With the least amount of thought and reason to go into it. But its not bad. And certainly not the worst Lore updates to come out of 4th edition.

Looking at you spellplague.

The 5e Great Wheel is an updated 2e Great wheel with elements borrowed from the World Axis model. That is a fact. But its still the great wheel.

to find an analogy, An Xbox One from Microsoft puts a Sony BluRay player in it, does not make it a Sony product. Its just an updated Microsoft one.

That's effectively what happened. There was an old model, when they reintroduced it they borrowed the best parts of another model.

But saying "Its actually the closer to the world axis model!" is also misleading because those are two fully distinct models as mentioned in the DMG. With the DMG directly stating.

The Great Wheel

The default cosmological arrangement presented in the Player’s Handbook visualizes the planes as a group of concentric wheels, with the Material Plane and its echoes at the center. The Inner Planes form a wheel around the Material Plane, enveloped in the Ethereal Plane. Then the Outer Planes form another wheel around and behind (or above or below) that one, arranged according to alignment, with the Outlands linking them all.

And then in the PHB, there is a map of the Great Wheel.

The 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes reads that the Plane of Shadow was part of the Great Wheel Cosmology existing in the same place as the Material Plane.

The same book also says the Plane of Faerie is part of the great wheel and while would normally be classified as an Outer Plane it has close ties to the Prime Material and presents echo or Faerie Duplicate.

Then come the feywild and shadowfel of 4e. 5e's PHB states that the Feywild and Shadowfel are just renamed Plane of Faerie, and Plane of Shadow.

#

Sorry that was long lol but I do appreciate this debate 🙂 making sense of DnD's vast lore is a fun passtime and I hope I am not coming off a crass or rude.

grim siren
#

Let me just post a minor correction here. I was mistaken, the 3rd Edition Manual of the Planes lists where the Plane of Faerie could be in the great wheel but the start of the chapter does state that any plane in the chapter is not a part of the wheel by default.

This would change in 5e when it is officially incorporated into the Great wheel cosmology.

wind raft
#

who’s the raven queen?

unkempt merlin
#

Depends on the setting. In some she is a god. In others, a powerful entity that is distinctly not a god.

eager bay
#

Why are gnome squidlings so cute

#

they're just little guys

#

I'm dying

#

||I just recently opened up Rime of the Frostmaiden, and I got to the point where the Id ascendant is||

#

and i have been absolutely blindsided

#

i didn't know that gnome squidlings existed

#

im very glad they do bc they're so cool

iron saffron
#

Big head, big eyes, and small stature reminds of babies.

eager bay
#

Yes

iron saffron
#

You should probably add spoilers...

eager bay
#

shoot sorry

iron saffron
eager bay
#

I'm rather sad that there's not a monster discussion tab

iron saffron
#

#dm-discussion maybe the closest if you want to talk about game mechanics but here for their lore

gray sluice
#

is there a god of like, archaeology

#

or exploration or something

iron saffron
#

Which setting?

gray sluice
#

any

#

preferably not an evil one

iron saffron
#

Well, you should ask your DM which gods are available in their setting first.

gray sluice
#

im the dm

iron saffron
#

In the Forgotten Realms, Shaundakul is the god of caravans, exploration, miners, portals, and travel

gray sluice
#

I don't know where my world falls into setting wise, I just started dmming, writing a story up with no particular dnd setting in mind. I don't know any DND lore at all

iron saffron
#

Morthammor Duin is the dwarven god of wanderers, lightning, and roads

gray sluice
#

It's GenericFantasyRPG.jpg

iron saffron
#

Fharlanghn is the Greyhawk god of horizons, distance, travel, and roads

#

The DMG and PHB has a list of "generic" gods (most of them are from the Greyhawk campaign setting).

gray sluice
#

I think Shaundakul would probably be it, I was thinking like one with more skew towards archaeology and or things related to it

#

thanks bruv

solemn nacelle
#

Can i use wish to turn myself into a lich?

magic jackal
#

That would largely depend on the DM. More likely, you could Wish to learn the rituals required to become a Lich.

solemn nacelle
#

Dm wont let me gather materials to turn into one. I asked him if i found another means would he? He said sure so now i wanna know if its raw for wish to work

mystic merlin
# grim siren So the Astral Plane was the connective tissue of the outer planes in OG Planesca...

The astral as transitive predates the planescape stuff by about 14 years, I don’t think PS should be the go to?

Not sure why far realm is mentioned, did my phone correct Faerie to Far Alien?

Fair point! I was conflating your statement with a prior statement but these are separate and that’s on me. I’m sorry for attributing that to you, I thought we were discussing the details in service to the immediate prior conversation 🙂

Personally I would check the black list, not the white list, for how the astral works; if teleportation still functions on the inner planes, they’re connected to the astral lore-wise (until we get teleportation as an astral effect written away, which I feel like was close? But ethereal hasn’t quite usurped it yet)

The 3e manual of the planes has the plane of shadow as an inner transitive, iirc, which may be causing me to approach this in a biased fashion; it was a demiplane once upon a time and even in 3.0, but by the time of late 3.5 had become the de-facto pseudo reality and default component we know it as today. I would hazard that the shadowfell is actually less impactful than the shadow was in 3e and the shadowfell was in 4e. Partly this is the dearth of details in the core though. I haven’t found much in the way of playable hooks in 5e but my memory is about a year out, I haven’t concerned myself with the RAW shadow in a while and have worked on personal worlds more lately

mystic merlin
# gray sluice is there a god of like, archaeology

There’s a category of lesser deity, heroes deities and demigods, as well as the ability of local spirits, fey, fiends, and dragons to be powerful enough to have effective Divine Rank; but the only thing related to archeology I can think of is an outer horror, mentioned mostly in the description of an Incantation in 3e;

#

Maybe I’m thinking one of the gods in book of vile darkness? dndThink

magic jackal
#

Would there not be certain Gods of Knowledge whose domain covered the pursuit of historical study?

mystic merlin
#

If the caster asks the Dweller on the Threshold a question that doesn’t involve doors, the Dweller responds with a cutting insult, often about something the caster thought was secret. Each word of the insult likewise makes a symbol disappear from the perimeter of the doorway.

The exact nature of the Dweller on the Threshold is shrouded in mystery. Some contend that it is somehow connected to the god of secrets, although no one has ever found conclusive evidence that the Dweller on the Threshold is evil.

mystic merlin
magic jackal
#

The study of history and prehistory through the excavation of sites and the analysis of artifacts and other physical remains
I feel Labelas Enoreth maybe works for this?

#

and on a larger whole Oghma's domain no doubt includes the pursuit of Archaeology to some degree

#

Savras maybe

mystic merlin
#

Maybe! I can’t remember the distinction between oghma and Farlaghn

#

Wasn’t ofhma’s symbol the green man?

magic jackal
#

I don't recall, he's the Bard God of Knowledge

#

if that helps.

mystic merlin
#

Aye, he’s named after Ogham

#

Ah! I was thinking of Obad-Hai

magic jackal
#

That's Greyhawk right?

mystic merlin
#

…. … … Vecna is specifically the God of destructive and evil secrets [in 3.5]. Do you think that’s two separate bits? Destructive secrets as well as evil secrets? Or does it have to be both and if so, what qualifies as a destructive and evil secret?

magic jackal
#

I think he's the God of Evil Secrets, and of Destructive Secrets, and the overlap thereof

#

and as for what qualifies, uh, check the in-universe book of vile darkness

mystic merlin
#

I might have to move this to DMing advice, it may be relevant to my game

mystic merlin
#

Oh snap

My apologies Kas, I know there is an overlap, but I could’ve sworn this was the legacy channel not the Lore channel

iron saffron
#

They're pretty intertwined...

mystic merlin
#

They very much are! That said, I was specifically discussing from avoided view, where the historical precedents were as or more important, versus this channels focus on the present state of things.

white ravine
gray sluice
shell gale
#

oh you have your own channel now?

#

nice

#

was used to the thread

#

anyway, how do you pronounce Hadoze? I figure it's "huh-doe-zee".

magic jackal
#

I think it's pronounced gif, but some people in universe say jif- oh wait

wanton light
#

If I want to set a campaign where they players play a vampire house in ravenloft but they are not one of the dread lords, just one of many vampire houses where should I set it? Is Barovia big enough to include all that or is the area spoken for?

white ravine
mystic merlin
# wanton light If I want to set a campaign where they players play a vampire house in ravenloft...

I live in a very large city, blending rule and cosmopolitan elements. I live in Jason to a national park with historic coal mines and a river that was a Main Thorofare for economic function in the state. I have lived in this city for over 20 years and I have personally explored may be half of it; I am a rambling Rover and I’ve gone many places. Perhaps I should knock out.

My city is also almost paradoxically designed as a 6 mile wide hexagon.

You can absolutely include an entire campaign or three worth of political maneuvering, intrigue, and exploration in barovia.

wanton light
#

Ok that's nice to know, from the maps I saw it looked relatively small but I was sure there was a more lore accurate answer

mystic merlin
#

Barovia doesn’t need to be big to have depth, is what I mean

wanton light
#

right

open siren
#

Can someone please break down the patrons and the spell they offer to a warlock

#

Are they ALL the same

#

Or differ slightly

unkempt merlin
#

Patron options or the beings that can be patrons?

obsidian gate
#

patrons are different lore wise obviously. fiends, fey etc. it seems you actually want to know the mechanics of Warlock as a class?

rose dune
# open siren Can someone please break down the patrons and the spell they offer to a warlock

I was working on a warlock myself. From what I’ve come to be able to tell is depending on the type of warlock you’re trying to create, you have a select list of spells that you just know at certain levels. Then you have the rest of the class spells to pick from for what you learn while leveling or change out during rests.
You can always get with your DM to adjust spells on the set list though to fit with an idea you’re trying to create.
Does that help answer?

open siren
#

Okay so Great One can grant burning hands as far as the DM and the game is concerned

#

??

unkempt merlin
#

No

#

Great Old one doesn't grant Burning Hands nor is it on the Warlock spell list

rose dune
#

If you’re trying to be accurate to the lore though (as this is the lore channel), then burning hands likely would not make any sense for great old one

iron saffron
shell cape
#

and i am finding other ones

unkempt merlin
#

Depends on what you want from "lore". 5e's lore is dependent on the setting. Lore can and does change a lot between different settings

#

there isn't really "lore" for the game itself. Those are just called rules.

shell cape
iron saffron
#

Strahd is based in the Ravenloft campaign setting.

#

The Forgotten Realms wiki deals mostly with lore on the Forgotten Realms, although it occasionally touches stuff from other official settings.

shell cape
#

ah i see

iron saffron
#

There's plenty of Ravenloft lore, mostly from the 2E Ravenloft campaign setting books.

#

There's no "one" D&D lore because there are many official campaign settings, some of which haven't been updated to 5E (and WotC's official stance is basically that the lore at your table is what you make of it).

#

That said, there are plenty of us lore nerds who can help you out if you want to learn lore from specific official campaign settings during the various edition eras.

eager bay
#

they added kenny from south park to DnD guys

iron saffron
#

Um... okay?

shell cape
inner ice
#

(Yell at me sarcastically if this isnt the right channel) so im going for a dark elf who was raised in a shrine that follows a necromantic god, and wanting their spells to follow that. Would warlock with wizard be the best? I heard that the raising the dead spells are only with magician

white ravine
#

Cleric and Wizard are both able to raise the dead (reliably), but a wizard with a bit of sorcerer could work.

Or vice versa.

inner ice
white ravine
#

Ahhhh...

#

For what you described, warlock/cleric + wizard would work well

west garden
#

does anybody remember the name of the giant grey guy with two cube horns and no eyes in mythic odysseys of theros?

#

I really can't find a picture of it anywhere

hexed plaza
#

I’ve racked my brain and thumbed through the book and I’m coming up empty.

magic jackal
west garden
#

sure

#

although I do also play magic the gathering so it might just be another ip i'm mixing up

magic jackal
#

I also play MTG, and I'm a big vorthos so I should be able to point you to what it is either way

west garden
#

it looks like the hundred handed one almost except it has almost like a magnet shape coming out of it's face

#

and if I'm remembering it correctly it has a huge floating ball in the middle as well

#

but the horns would be where the eyes are supposed to be

#

i've known I've seen it somewhere, it's driving me crazy

magic jackal
#

My immediate thoughts are Erebos, or one of the Erebosian Nyxborn, or a particularly screwed up Returned, or maybe Chromanticore

#

Elsewise it kinda sounds like the Wandering Archaic from Strixhaven.

#

That's not Theros tho

#

But it matches, gray, giant, no eyes, horn-like growths, and a weird orb/gem thing in the middle.

west garden
#

wow that is really close to what I'm imagining

#

maybe they are connected

#

the horns are a bit more cubed tho

#

but thank you for the lead

magic jackal
#

There's also the Teachings of the Archaics

#

It's a blue card, features an Archaic in its art

west garden
#

YES

#

YES

#

THANK YOU

magic jackal
#

My encyclopedic knowledge of useless stuff comes in handy lmao

#

Happy to help

west garden
#

you don't know how much this had plagued me for the last week

#

thank you so much

magic jackal
#

haha np 😂

west garden
#

you have to admit it does look a bit theros-y right

magic jackal
#

a bit yeah

sacred lily
#

Is there any lore or source material for Trolls. I wanted to incorporated them into a game where the characters have to interact with them. I need to figure out scenarios where the party can approach the Trolls with out either attacking the other on sight.

spark haven
#

Good news. Trolls are sentient creatures. That means they have free will

white ravine
#

Trolls are pretty temperamental and very headstrong, pretty much any act of insult against them can turn them violent...unless the party has fire.

spark haven
#

They're not very smar,t admittedly, but like...trolls have villages. They build houses. They raise their children

#

So there's trolls whose entire existence is not smashing skulls

iron saffron
#

There are several sub-species in the various editions so not all of them have the same acid/fire vulnerability.

spark haven
#

I think there's value in the suggestion that uh...you would want to show up with leverage

white ravine
#

Like fire

spark haven
#

Either a show of strength or a show of value

sacred lily
#

Does anyone know what trolls like? What would be a nice diplomatic gift the party could bring to the parley?

spark haven
#

But my point is that these are sentient creatures just like humans or orcs or whatever. They have needs, desires

iron saffron
#

You can take inspiration of the trolls from The Hobbit and the trolls in the Elf Quest comics to help you flesh them out.

spark haven
#

They need food, shelter, space for housing and crops

#

Lots of room for negotiations

sacred lily
#

Maybe some nice brandy or ale for their settlement

spark haven
#

Valuable trade goods, medical supplies, items of cultural value

sacred lily
#

with some nice smoked meats and cheeses

white ravine
white ravine
sacred lily
#

Trolls will also mark their territory with totems and such so characters could approach to the Territory edge and wait for the Trolls to come to them

spark haven
#

presumably, they enjoy not being hurt

#

or recovering more quickly when it does happen

sacred lily
spark haven
#

i know they have the HP regen, but they're not invincible

#

there aren't an infinite number of trolls around so something's keeping the numbers down

iron saffron
sacred lily
#

Barrels of salve for seriously burned trolls?

white ravine
iron saffron
#

I believe that troll society is matriarchal.

white ravine
#

Fire disables their regeneration, it doesn't remove it

iron saffron
#

The Ecology of the Troll, Dragon Magazine #301

sacred lily
#

Thank you all for your help. This is a good start.

magic jackal
#

The reason their population is kept down is probably the fact that there's a million other just as terrifying organisms out there competing with them.

#

In a vacuum they're dominant but they don't exist in a vacuum.

raven needle
#

also depends on their reproductive rate. maybe they aren't spreading like rabbits because they don't bleep like rabbits 🤷

minor comet
#

til trolls have high standards

white ravine
#

(they really dont)

mossy scroll
#

Hi guys I have a question regarding the Spelljammer setting. I want to play an Astral Elf who has sympathised with the plight against the Empire and has gone turn-coat against them but I'm told by a friend that Xaraxyians are pretty brain washed people and would never betray The Empire but I just don't know if this is true and can't find anything in the Spelljammer book saying this, without going into the actual campaign spoilers. Is it really that unreasonable for an Astral Elf in the Xaraxyian Empire to "switch sides" is what I'm getting at.

unkempt merlin
#

Short and non spoiler answer: yes it's totally possible
It's a pretty classic trope in fiction for a reason

mossy scroll
timid topaz
#

I am running Icewind Dale and my party is looking for more information regarding the Netherese in Faerun. So I know that the floating city of Ythryn crashed down, but are the Netherese still around and just sprawled out across the continent?

iron saffron
#

The Netherese empire was wiped out but some remnants still exist — they had transported their city to the Shadowfell centuries ago and only recently returned. There are also descendants of the Netherese, such as the hermit wizard nation of Halruaa (the Halruaan language is derivative of Netherese).

timid topaz
#

Okay that makes much more sense based on what I've read. Thanks!

iron saffron
magic jackal
eager bay
#

Wow I’m a noob

iron saffron
#

Do you have a lore question?

mystic merlin
# spark haven there aren't an infinite number of trolls around so something's keeping the numb...

Fire and acid, presumably. They can be eaten, if you’re acidic enough in the gastric department.

It’s also possible the old canard about troll reproduction being when a boy troll and a girl troll tolerate each other very much, they just rip each other to bits and the bits make new trolls, being accurate but misleading; perhaps there is a certain amount of pre-feeding and then hormone cycling involved?

#

Troll parts can be safely acquired, which is weird, so it must be that they’re less like flatworms and more like starfish; a removed arm can grow a new troll but a removed organ cannot?

Also

[sic] Trolls and had no natural predators in the wild.

RIP to my theory

magic jackal
#

So I would assume organs can't grow back.

#

Or at least some won't, or there's some other overtaxing factor to their regeneration not explicitly stated.

white ravine
mystic merlin
white ravine
#

Which has to be...horrifying to watch and horrifying to experience

mystic merlin
#

Yep!
The original troll was a boss monster.

unkempt merlin
#

worth noting that "natural" is relative in most dnd settings

#

Dragons are natural in some, and in others, humanoids aren't

#

(dragons are naturally in most frankly but still)

mystic merlin
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Literally, in three hearts and three lions they find it as one of the last obstacles. The troll just walked forward casually, enjoying the fear it’s recovery presented. Eventually Amin character remembered that fire stopped cellular function so he and his comrade doused their swords in oil and chopped and chopped once it was alight, to such a degree they ruined the Temper of the steel and bent the blades on it’s ashen bones, just to be sure.

Even then it persisted, until the last of the oil covered and allowed them to immolate it

magic jackal
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Oh huh, good to know.

nova hill
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HEY

teal spear
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hi

ionic rivet
#

Okay folks please stay on topic! Ask lore questions or share lore thoughts here.

clear creek
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Thought of a pirate ship name:

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The Obsidian Anchor

iron saffron
clear creek
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Oh sorry I didn’t realize that’s what this channel was for

iron saffron
#

For discussion of the lore of the various official D&D settings. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're talking about, eg [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

clear creek
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Yes I see that now

tardy wasp
#

In the Forgotten Realms, how might a male priest of Selune's relationship with his deity differ from a female priest's relationship? I've seen stuff saying that women in the priesthood believe their bodies are affected by the lunar cycle, or that they can achieve unique insights or visions during the full moon.

Do male priests not get as deep of a connection, or is there something else going on?

modest badger
#

That does appear to be the 3.5 lore. Ed greenwood did like to delve into the 'feminine goddess' trope a bit, especially with moon godesses.
If you go with that lore, then yes the same book says "Women heavily outnumber men, and many of the church's rituals honor the woman's role as a teacher and role model in the home and in society at large."

This is less leant upon in 5e:

She is also a goddess of stars and navigation as well as motherhood and reproductive cycles. She is seen as a calm power, frequently venerated by female humans as well as by a mix of other folk: navigators and sailors, those who work honestly at night, those seeking protection in the dark, the lost, and the questing.
Milk, a symbol of motherhood, is used in many rites performed by the worshipers of Selûne, as are trances and meditation. Those who favor her typically set a bowl of milk outside on each night of the full moon.

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As for the question of how a male character can connect to her- either through her other aspects or by saying screw gender roles.
You can lean into a genderqueer and trans perspective if you like- the fact that hormone cycles affect cis men too, that they can produce milk even. He needn't be trans, but he could be- a trans man may find power in his cycle still. Or the idea of connecting to ones anima/animus, so on.

solemn nacelle
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was told to come here for this

ok, now i know there is a ruling process to turn into a lich, but is there one to become a death knight?

iron saffron
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Demogorgon is credited with creating the first death knight by corrupting a paladin.

dense moat
mint ravine
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I'm 99% sure that there is a piece of content in 5e that describes a book containing the process to becoming a death knight. I thought it was the Book of Vile Darkness, but it is not

mystic merlin
raven needle
#

there's rules for PC oathbreakers. that's basically a death knight without the undeath bit. so play a reborn oathbreaker and you have it pretty much covered?

mystic merlin
iron saffron
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Lord Soth is probably the most famous D&D death knight. He was a Knight of the Rose (one of the Knights of Solamnia in the Dragonlance campaign setting). He had an affair and that was beginning of his corruption (basically he became an oathbreaker in 5E terms) and he was cursed by his dying wife, "You shall live the lifetime of every soul that you have caused death today."

dense moat
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yeah its more of a curse for bad boys then a ritual or process

mystic merlin
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Lord Soth was tasked by the gods to make up for his arrogance and hubris, to be the final messenger to stop the king-priest of Ishtar from committing high blasphemy and calling out the gods as less holy than said king-priest

He was convinced his wife was having an affair, both by his own vanity and jealousy, as well as the whispering of evil. He turned back, arrived home in time to find nothing amiss, and then the King-Priest made his proclamation and was struck dead by a meteor (which also leveled the kingdom and set ansalon back centuries).

mint ravine
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and what he got for it was... looking cool as hell

magic jackal
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Anyone can be corrupted or transformed for it, more often it is Paladins or similar holy warriors that fall from grace, but there's not just one way.

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Some are corrupted or created by dark powers, such as the former Storm Giant King Hekaton, who was transformed, others are fallen Paladins, still others cursed for their evil deeds, and others like OldMan said by Demogorgon etc.

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It's a vague concept playing on nonspecific tropes, so you can really make a Death Knight from any number of things, rather than drawing a hard line in the sand about what must and must not be.

mint ravine
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Hekaton as a death knight is pretty hardcore

sterile hearth
#

What’s a way people from eberron can be magically transported to other worlds?

rough fractal
#

Question:
The PC in my one on one game rebuilt Neverwinter Academy and has operated it as headmaster for the last 6 years. We just timeskipped 6 years to 1504 and we're starting on the first graduation. I'm trying to think of individuals who would want to give a large donation to the Academy in exchange for the honor of doing a commencement speech. Ideally someone vain and greedy who isn't Volo or Jarlaxle. I'm considering a Neverember trying to regain public trust after ||the disaster|| in Honor Among Thieves, but I was curious what you guys' ideas were

sour trout
#

Is there any good in-lore reason for a magic item to be immune to a beholder's antimagic cone?

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non-artifact

mystic merlin
mystic merlin
# sour trout Is there any good in-lore reason for a magic item to be immune to a beholder's a...

None I can think of!

There is a token chosen of Mystra can use which allows them to function within an anti magic zone, so it may be possible for a very expensive and bespoke item to work in such a zone

But outside of the Beholder itself literally learning to shape it’s cone around that one object, some form of divine benediction, or perhaps get dangerously cheesy and declare that as a psychic item it does not use magic, there’s nothing that can work without word changing ramifications.

sour trout
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I'm more trying to think of a magic item mcguffin the party can search for in order to take out the beholder

magic jackal
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hear me out

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go all odysseus on the beholder and poke out its anti magic eye

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🧠

sour trout
#

I don't think there are any mechanics for that, are there?

white ravine
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Theyre never evil when they turn into a death knight. It's just a rapid descent out of nobility so drastic that it slingshots them into the worst pit of undeath.

rough fractal
bronze crystal
#

how did gods have powers before they created creatures to worship them...?

spark haven
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who says a god's power is based on their worshippers?

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many cosmologies' gods are simply intrinsically powerful

bronze crystal
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isn't that how rank and stuff work?

spark haven
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They were born with the power, or they acquired it by stealing it or tapping into some natural source

bronze crystal
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idk i'm really new to dnd

spark haven
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In some cosmologies

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There are many many worlds with many different pantheons, often multiple per universe

white ravine
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That, and the deities that werent like that gained their power as worship was spread. Its a feedback loop of a deity gaining worship, leading to the deity to grow in power, which the deity uses to perform miracles. I believe Dendar is a prime example.

iron saffron
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Deities' divine power level is based on the number of worshippers. Greater gods have more worshippers than a demi-god. A god with no worshippers can "die" or get demoted to 0 divine rank. (This is based on the 3.5E Deities & Demigods book)

magic jackal
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5e does I think state that some deities do not require worship at all.

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which does make sense because some Gods it doesn't make a lot of sense that they would receive worship from a great number of people but they are evidently very powerful within the divine hierarchy.

mystic merlin
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Forgotten realms wants to have it both ways. Divine power exists independent of worship (see asmodeus and Vecna, a few others) but also after a certain point, I want to say the time of troubles? So mandated the need for worship because the gods were being petty and not doing their jobs, I guess?

It’s a bit of a mess.

eager bay
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Which setting do you think has the best lore regarding its deities and how they came to be? Settings without gods like Dark Sun don't count ofc

sharp owl
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Best in what regard? Various settings present the deities very differently

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Like, in Eberron deities are an uncertainty while in Theros they walk amongst mortals and pick champions. In Exandria they're known to exist and once waged war but now live in isolation from mortals behind the Divine Gate whereas on Toril they're actively involved in mortal affairs but still fairly distant

grim siren
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I am biased. But just in sheer variety and depth of gods. The Forgotten Realms is pretty unmatched. To where many minor minor gods with only small cults are detailed out.

zenith dust
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note that in eberron the existence of dieties is uncertain, but the lore around them isn't!

mystic merlin
eager bay
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wdym

mystic merlin
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I mean there’s the “lol Mystra dies all the time, gods change hands, Azuth got dunked by the devil” stuff

And there’s the slow cosmological turn, of Shar as darkness primordial in tandem tension with the shining moon, Mystra as magic itself, the human form an avatar of the four dimensional structure of lines of blazing silver blue fire permeating all creation and not the weave itself made by what is essentially a big wizard, etc.

eager bay
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I see

white ravine
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All of Lolth's story too

magic jackal
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Lolth is fun, but I prefer Lmaoth

runic sail
#

Could someone DM me the current Masked Lords of Waterdeep?

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Would ask for it publicly but one of my players is here XD

iron saffron
runic sail
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already looked there my guy, specifically does not name the Hidden Lords

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The identities of the Lords, other than the Open Lord, were not supposed to be known to the public, although they were known to each other.

iron saffron
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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_of_Waterdeep#15th_Century
Known Masked Lords during their tenures included:

Arthagast Ulbrinter, an unfortunate killed by the Cult of the Dragon during the Tyranny of Dragons events.
Berithro Tharlivar, the jovial warehouse owner, shipper, and financial investor.
Corylus Thann, a nobleman that employed the Zhentarim to violently prevent non-humans from achieving positions of power in Waterdeep and was in turn blackmailed by the Black Network.
Dorgar Adarbrent, who had been identified by Manshoon.
Jelenn Urmbrusk, a noblewoman that was similarly blackmailed by the Zhentarim under Manshoon.
Lilianviaten Dlardrageth, a high priest and chosen of Beshaba.
Mirt, the former Lord returned to the council after an almost century-long absence.
Nazra Mrays, an alleged spymaster.
Omin Dran, the entrepreneurial founder of Acquisitions Incorporated.
Santar Belrune, the wealthy Tharsult, an importer and investor.
Thardouk Starbuckler, who had been identified by Manshoo
runic sail
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that includes dead ones, like Arthagast

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ionic rivet
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I don't believe there is a "current" list of the Lords of Waterdeep. Feel free to make up your own for what you need.

minor comet
#

What would the best domain of dread be to live in?

crude blaze
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Borca. All you really have to worry about there is politics.

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Which is torment in and of itself, but at least it’s not werewolves, vampires, vampiric mind flayers, evil wizards, etc.

eager bay
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How many clerics do you reckon a deity having? Doubt they'd need too many to help carry out their will, but depends on how high of fantasy we be looking at

iron saffron
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Which campaign setting? Which god?

eager bay
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Greyhawk, and I guess the more commonly-worshipped deities for simplicity's sake

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I'm not super knowledgeable about Greyhawk lore btw

iron saffron
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Meek would know.

eager bay
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Specifically for Greyhawk?

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@mystic merlin how many clerics do deities in Greyhawk usually have? Prob only a few, right?

mystic merlin
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That’s an interesting inquest. I think the best way to find out would be going through all the modules in the setting and seeing how many are listed. I think you will find that there are a lot more than you would expect. For one thing, in the olden days when Greyhawk mattered, a cleric would get their first few levels of spells strictly from medical training. Mid-level spells came from servants, such as angels, and only the highest order of spells would be granted by the DD directly. This made it was entirely possible for somebody to make up a fake religion, and still be able to provide low-level clerical magic

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Hmm. Don’t think inquest is the right word but it fits enough as a colloquialism

eager bay
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I'm just thinking in light of what a cleric is and all

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like, a normie priest can't just get divine magic from their deity. They are entrusted with such power as an intermediary between their deity's will and the physical world.

crude blaze
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Sorta. There are Acolyte and Priest statblocks out there that give the NPC a modicum of divine magic.

eager bay
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hmm

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Perhaps low-level cleric spells are something that's more like touching the surface of that oneness with their deity or smth

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Spiritual oneness, I mean

crude blaze
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I’ve always thought of it as they all have their callings. It’s just that some callings require a closer connection to the divinity.

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But also keep in mind that even clerics don’t necessarily gain powers directly from gods, they get it from their belief. At least in 5E. Idk about prior editions.

eager bay
crude blaze
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Yep. It’s their faith/belief that powers them, not a deity.

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It’s not like a direct connection between a warlock and their patron.

eager bay
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But the deity would still choose who to bestow their powers to

mystic merlin
# eager bay I'm just thinking in light of what a cleric *is* and all

The original clerics in greyhawk, vacillate heavily between being serious characterizations and being satire. So it’s hard to tell.

I think it’s intentionally vague to allow you to fill your world as necessary. Although we could always go to the old self, like advanced dungeons and dragons DMG to see how many clerics druids, etc. per capita there are.

mystic merlin
eager bay
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Oh, ok

mystic merlin
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This is kind of the problem we wind up facing. We are trying to condense 50 years of squabbling men and women, 50 years of actual power struggle between people who wanted to control what direction the game went across at least a dozen different settings, and something like seven actual addition changes. and we are trying to treat it as if it were a consistent thing and it’s just not.

That’s the benefit of having to specify edition and setting. But it also means we can’t talk about things as if they are always this or were always that without leaving out a lot of detail

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Heck, it was rumored that in Mystara, a cleric was a person who was transmogrified by their deity, using the immortals rules for changing a moral, and this created some fun ecclesiastical friction, because someone ordained as a cleric games, supernatural powers, and then, unless the immortal went down to them and took them away, they stayed regardless of the actual faith of their cleric

eager bay
modest badger
#

Also remember Greyhawk and various other settings has entire organised religions. Greyhawk even has Theocracies, Like Veluna, ruled by priests of Rao with a College of Bishops advising the Canon/Archcleric and Diocese Bishops acting like Barons and Dukes so on.

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Or the literally named 'Theocracy of the Pale', a Pholtan kingdom ruled by the 'Theocrat' who apparently believes themself to be Pholtan's chosen representative, and their nine whicks (Pholtans symbol is a candle/light).

So yeah. Lots of clerics about. You can encounter wandering clerics too in some random encounter tables for Greyhawk.

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The only gods noted to have 'only a few' were demigods like Rudd, or hero-gods like Kelanan.

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Glancing through I can spot at least ten rules in 1e Greyhawk that also have cleric levels

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And in the boxed set, it gave rules for distribution of high level NPCs (mostly for the purpose of hirelings or other such encounters, that went:
Cleric 15%,
fighter 50%
magic-user 10%,
thief 24%,
other 1%
(With cleric, fight, MU and thief including their subtypes if applicable)

So clerics in WoG should be more common than Magic-users even. And WOG had a fair few of them running around.

serene crater
#

Quick question, but would the manshoon be willing (most likely begrudgingly) to help against an invasion of waterdeep or would he probably help invaders. Trying to figure out some stuff for the future of my campaign

iron saffron
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Manshoon is the head of Zhentarim so I don't know why he would aid Waterdeep. As for the invaders, that depends if they are allies of the Zhents.

spark haven
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So I don't have deep knowledge of the Zhentarim, but I'm pretty sure they're not an eschatological cult so they have a vested interest in having somewhere to live and do business

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I did see that Manshoon's an aspiring conqueror of some sort, to which I point again to the lack of eschatological focus. Manshoon wants to rule, you can't rule a place that's been glassed.

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I mean, you could be like "I'm the mad wizard king of toril, i'm an immortal lich and the only sentient being left alive bwahahaha" but I don't think that's Manshoon's goal

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pretty sure he wants subjects

spark haven
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And the help probably wouldn't manifest in the form of battalions of soldiers in gleaming plate mail. The Zhentarim would probably augment logistics, set up supply depots and means of transport for soldiers or civilians

foggy seal
#

What’s the relationship between Bahamut and Tiamat like?

crude blaze
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…not great.

foggy seal
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In terms of stats Bahamut is stronger so if they don’t like each other why doesn’t Bahamut invade the Nine Hells and kill her and every other arch devil?

crude blaze
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Because that wouldn’t make for compelling lore, so much as maybe a cool adventure for a group to play in.

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That’s kinda like saying, “Why doesn’t every god just go and kill an opposing one?” Probably wouldn’t make for a great story in the long run.

foggy seal
#

True, I guess.

Why don’t the celestials step into the Blood War? Aren’t they stronger than fiends in general?

crude blaze
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In fact, there are worlds that directly address what happens when gods actively try to fight each other (see Exandria). It’s generally catastrophic.

crude blaze
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Plus, at least my theory, they want the war to keep going.

foggy seal
#

Aren’t devils lesser in number than demons?

unkempt merlin
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Other way around

foggy seal
#

Say what

crude blaze
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No, I do believe devils are lesser in number (hence their constant need for souls), but more organized.

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Demons are unending waves of chaos, devils are fewer but more organized and strategy-minded, which gives them an upper hand.

foggy seal
#

Do beholders and mindflayers get along well in-lore?

crude blaze
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While one believes they’re being served by the other, sure

foggy seal
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Would mindflayers see aboleths as a buffet because they have so many memories beholderthink

crude blaze
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I think we’re starting into not-lore and more DM-discussion, cuz that’s gonna vary by table

foggy seal
#

My bad

unkempt merlin
#

@runic totem yes artificers are in the FR

runic totem
#

Alright cool

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Thanks

iron saffron
iron saffron
# foggy seal Aren’t devils lesser in number than demons?

Yes, there are fewer devils than demons (devils are typically created from mortal souls while demons are born from the Abyss itself).

Demons can afford to send waves on Avernus while the devils, despite being fewer in number, are more organized and hold off the demons.

foggy seal
iron saffron
foggy seal
#

What a dummy

iron saffron
#

Why?

Why become a servant in Hell when you can be a lord (of three layers) in the Abyss?

obsidian gate
#

Grazzt doesnt seem to be upset about how things turned out

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quite to the contrary

rocky tundra
#

how would I get to Eberron from Waterdeep without casting any magic myself?

iron saffron
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Hire a wizard.

obsidian gate
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yeah this requires someone to perform high level magic at some point

rocky tundra
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I figured out how, don't worry

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however

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one issue. My party is currently in avernus. How would I get out of Avernus?

raven needle
#

a spelljammer helm and a ship might work

rocky tundra
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I need to get from Avernus to Waterdeep

raven needle
#

anyway, more of a DM discussion

rocky tundra
rocky tundra
#

my DM says we will do the adventure we are currently doing

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unless I can find a way out of Avernus

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and it's not like he doesn't want me out of Avernus

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he clearly wants to see me try

rocky tundra
#

so lets say I can't lose my soul

raven needle
#

also means you can't trade it. devils won't like you much

rocky tundra
#

exactly

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actually, my character does have one of those soul coins on him

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or, well actually it's currently inside of a war machine

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but could I use one of those coins to trade to a devil?

raven needle
#

yes

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whether it's enough payment for them to banish/plane shift you out of Avernus is a question for your DM, but soul coins are valuable in Avernus.

rocky tundra
#

maybe I could break open this war machine and grab whatever other soul coins are in here

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cause it was mad maggies

white ravine
rocky tundra
#

if a few level 7 characters walked up to tiamat and asked her to help them return to the surface from avernus, would she just kill them or humor the idea

white ravine
#

If you show up to Tiamat's place without a bribe, she'll likely kill you to take your stuff

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However, with a bribe she might entertain them and send them on some quests (suicidal in nature if theyre not being polite and sucking up to her) in return for banishing them back to a random desert with a headache.

fading zinc
#

I want us to get more lore for DNDs god head

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It feels like we don't get much

white ravine
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Not meant to, he doesn't come down often to interfere

grave dock
#

I mean gods are pretty whack, big fan of the mispunctuation in a legal paper with another god making Amaunator god of time, whats up with that, why do gods have legal papers between each other? 😄

fading zinc
#

Honestly, it would be cool if they made like, a level 25 or 30 game

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Where it's like, god levels cause the god dream is breaking down and that causes things to go wonky / eldritch horrorz

white ravine
fading zinc
#

Mortals can't steal deity weapons?

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I also really wanna see game play for the world's dragon reflection

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The one where the dragons are the gods instead

white ravine
fading zinc
#

Darn, that's disappointing

#

Still, I find it funny that gods in this game are similar to the gods in elderscrolls

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Shading the world like it's a dream, owning concepts and thus having power over them

white ravine
#

I honestly need to do a refresher on deities. The fundamentals of how they work are...vague at best?

fading zinc
#

I can't reach the interface to edit messages sadly, ohones glitched

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I think it's something like they can fight eachother and steal "portfolios" which is like, concepts

white ravine
#

Yeah. Maglubiyet is an example of a deity who did that.

fading zinc
#

Such as if the goddess of magic got beat, the god who beat her up can take magic

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Same with other concepts

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Atleast that's my rough understanding, I remember a vid calling it portfolios and yhings they have in those portfolios

white ravine
#

Good luck beating up Mystra though

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Yup. Gods have portfolios (what they have domain over) and no deity can overlap in the same pantheon with the same portfolio.

fading zinc
#

All you need is to do like, 5 diffrent rituals at once with super rare specisl artifacts

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Its sad yhat they chsnged the rules tho and deleted the bezt kinds magic

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Just deleting powered magic crystals

white ravine
#

Mythals are still able to be done, no problem

fading zinc
#

So that floating cities can never be a thing again

white ravine
#

It's why elves are still considered the #1 in magic superiority

fading zinc
#

Gonna go to sleep, might poke back on this tmmr

alpine magnet
#

What are the names of the Lhazaar Principalities?

unkempt merlin
stuck breach