balance-feedback-discussion

[cobalt dagger]

Yeah I noticed from my 1 v 1's back in the day that their tail tip is frustratingly sensitive.

[flint locust]

i made smth a while back abt dilos hallucinations but idk about it

Dilophosaurus Tweaks

The creature at night that lurks just beyond the corner of your eye needs a few tweaks to make it have more depth

Stats

➤ Stamina lowered to (duration)
➤ Biteforce lowered to 70, slower attack speed

Venom

➤ Venom tiers affect its duration, meaning you have a more limited time to get the targeted to tier 3
➤ When a target is fully envenomated, their stats appear blacked out, including the status indicator and any stat modifiers. The player can still see the blood around their screen
➤ Venom scales with weight. This means heftier creatures will require more effort to envenomate than smaller

Hallucinations

Hallucinations are mostly dilos, but are also able to affect terrain to the targeted dinosaur
➤ Hallucination damage is halved
➤ They despawn after 15s and cannot be spawned if the dilo is too far
➤ Those who are fully envenomated must be aware of their surroundings because dilo chuffs can cause the terrain to get dangerous. Terrain ones use all three chuffs by holding rmb
╰┈➤Types of terrain hallucinations
Water
-Whirlpools that cause targets to struggle and lose stamina
-Waves push out staggering the envenomated
-Dilo hallucinations can swim
Land
-Quicksand appears alongside riverbanks or plains that can slow the victim, engulfing them should they not move
-Dilo hallucinations can climb slowly
Weather
-'Rain' that acts similar to hypsis spit, needing to be wiped off
-For flying creatures like quetz, lightning strikes can make it stumble and have to readjust itself. These dont do much damage.

[cobalt dagger]

I want to mention that I don't think stego should be nerfed though, him biting me like that- well, he's a much bigger animal and I do think Dilo should be a fragile little guy. I think it might not be delicate enough and that's something they could nerf. I just hope they keep it fast.

[flint locust]

this was before bite speeds were readjusted so idk what they are on hordetesting rn

[cobalt dagger]

Is that from the devs or from the balancing feedback area?

[flint locust]

from smth i made a while back because i really didnt want dilo to have deino halucinations come out of the water

i didnt post it bc i dont know if people like the idea lol

[cobalt dagger]

OH NO, no deino hallucinations coming out of the water, NO. Deino is already op, don't spread that to Dilo.

[flint locust]

lulw

but yeah i wanted terrain hallucinations since it could introduce a lot more gameplay while also removing dinosaurs camping unreachable dilo hallucination spots as much

i didnt want to make it impossible for dinosaurs to seek shelter by riverbanks/ air/ rocks tho 😄

[cobalt dagger]

I like the idea of allowing them to take damage even when, say, flying, because it makes sense; flying away shouldn't protect you from the venom of a rattle snake if it has already bitten you.
I do think that, even though it is cheesy, for the same reason distance shouldn't save you either, so the dilo could run away- Or, if you're faster than the dilo because you're a flyer or a carno, you can't simply run away from the venom after it's already in you.

There are times that my only way to survive a carno was to bite him enough for venom and then run off, and use the fog to disappear - and the hallucinations to keep his hp low enough so he wouldn't try it again/he had to find a place to hide.

I think keeping venom weight based is great, and I think venom duration should be short enough that 1 venomation can't kill an animal of 'longer growth time'/higher tier.
Getting the venom on the animal needs to be RISKY. Currently, I find my 'best method' of venom application is facetank them for 2 hits and then skitter away. I'd like to be punished more for that, that's cheesy. Granted, if I had to do it twice for two envenomations, I'd die. Maybe we can make it so that, for example a carno, is able to survive 1 envenomation (by reducing hallucination damage, but keep the fog timer/sniff disabled for 3 minutes: This is to give a defensive dilo time to run away and hide from that carno. If you don't manage to run away or hide in 3 minutes then well, maybe that carno deserves to catch you.) but not 2 envenomations.
But that the dilo itself can only survive one quick facetank, and that it would have to find another, more skillful method to put venom on the carno - or a second dilo - if it wanted to make the kill and not just run away.

[flint locust]

I've been thinking about dilo's venom being bound to its alt bite so face tanking becomes more risky but idk if thats too janky

[cobalt dagger]

I mean, that's how I do it.

Alt bites give head bites. 2 alt bites then run.

*alt bites give head bites if you're facing their head

[flint locust]

Maybe venom has to be gained over time I'm not too sure tbh never really thought about it

[cobalt dagger]

I don't think slowing down their bite speed will help too much since they could just bite a little earlier as they're running up and the animation might complete by the time they get there...

But we could make it so that they have to bite more to cause the venom to begin with.

I love to use the fog as an escape tool, myself.

I guess not everyone, or every dilo, actually tries to run away from every situation.

I've seen people who just FIGHT to the death and never run.

But I really like running away as dilo, particularly using the fog to do so.

[flint locust]

The bite speed thing was because it could facetake some things to the death :C

[cobalt dagger]

Ah gotcha... Yeah that's no good, he needs to be fragile to make up for that venom

I had no idea to be frank, I guess I never tried it without alt bite

But I definitely don't think that should be the case.

I don't think it will hurt to slow down the bite speed

So long as hallucinations still do damage, which I am sure they will.

I learned that, when people figure out how to bite your hallucinations before they can bite, the solution is cheesy too- You stack up your charges and then release 3 hallucinations at once, and it's hard for them to get rid of them all before one bites.

Slowing down bite speed should be fine, some dilos will just need to learn how to do ^ That

[flint locust]

Could reduce the weight of it or maybe make it have to charge up a bite like cera

[flint locust]

yee

[cobalt dagger]

Well, as long as it doesn't get pinned by raptor- Funny enough, raptor calls give me anxiety until about 80%, because that's how long it takes me to be big enough so they can't pin me.

But I like it that way, too. As long as the adult dilo isn't pinnable, but I don't mind it being pinnable for most of it's young life.

We can probably stand to slightly reduce it's weight, but carnos do some really strong damage to it already, so I worry slightly about how much they'd do with a reduced weight.

Charge bites - I'm a bit worried about that making the dilo too predictable, especially if he's supposed to be a sneaky quiet night predator. I guess we can just make it silent or not obvious which dilo is charging a bite and which dilo is just distracting you.
I suppose ceras can already do this, with both charging but one is a distraction and one is going to bite

[flint locust]

especially if he's supposed to be a sneaky quiet night predator

I completely forgot theres supposed to be disorienting sounds in my thing i typed

It would make dilo footsteps, calls, bite sounds
Since it includes bite sounds it could probably also have the charge bitesound in there as well

[cobalt dagger]

I think his bite charge should be silent, if he makes ANY dilo noises then that Galli he was sneaking up on will skitter away! XD

But the fog could have weird sounds in it like that

In fact if the fog had weird sounds like that, it would help a ton. Good players will listen to my footsteps in the fog and chase me that way.

Maybe- when something is venom'd, Dilo opens it's arms while it runs. Maybe it does something with it's arms indicating it's about to land a charged bite?

It looks pretty funny even currently when he runs with his arms open though.

[flint locust]

Sure 👍

[cobalt dagger]

I might need to get going soon, but thank you for talking to me about balance-y-things.

I enjoyed the conversation!

[flint locust]

😄

[cobalt dagger]

I think making venom only applied by charge bites sounds good, it encourages more of a 'hit and run' method which I think is what was INTENDED for dilo. I can't imagine the devs intended it to be face-tank brawler.

[leaden remnant]

@whole idol imma be honest the best counterplay to that is just don't get pinned

im tryna not be biased that's why i didn't react with x

[whole idol]

Funky hitboxes and I highly doubt a raptor will miss all of its pounces

[leaden remnant]

oh yeah hitboxes are ass

but i assume you're talking from a herrera perspective

[whole idol]

Imagine losing 3 hours of growth to one button like…

[frail bobcat]

you cant pin anything that takes 3 hours to grow

[leaden remnant]

anything that can be pinned by a raptor has a way to get out

or well to not get pinned

[whole idol]

I have nothing against it if it’s a fully grown, but getting one tapped as a Galli is insane

[leaden remnant]

a galli has speed, a dryo has agility, a dilo has speed, a herrera has trees

[whole idol]

So we can’t fight them?

[leaden remnant]

uh

[whole idol]

Hyperbolical statement dawg

[leaden remnant]

why on earth would you fight something 2-3 times bigger than you that specializes in killing stuff 4 times its size

[whole idol]

There has to be some sort of counterplay lmao

[leaden remnant]

i mean you can but

[leaden remnant]

uh like what

[whole idol]

How is a raptor 4x a gallis size

[leaden remnant]

a teno is

a stego is like 15 times its size

a carno exactly 4 times its size

so keep in mind you r tryna fight something that literally goes against stuff like that and is equipped to megabonk them

[whole idol]

So a 90% smt pachy can’t fight off a single raptor? Damn lol

[leaden remnant]

yes it can

pretty sure a 60% pachy can already fracture it

[whole idol]

Once it’s pinned it’s over lol

[leaden remnant]

a 90% pachy cant be pinned

[whole idol]

Ye but aiming as a pachy is harder than aiming a pounce lol

[leaden remnant]

you'd be surprised

[whole idol]

Yes they can, they weight like 400 smt

[leaden remnant]

no a fg pachy weighs 500kg

a 75% pachy is already too big to be pinned

[whole idol]

I’ve previously mained pachy and omni, but I think everyone can agree that aiming a pounce is easier (turn radius yk)

[whole idol]

Yes but a 90% would weight around 400

[leaden remnant]

i've played both and i honestly think both are pretty easy

[whole idol]

Lmao

[leaden remnant]

uh no im pretty sure it weighs like 450 or more

[whole idol]

Still, u can get pinned around there

[leaden remnant]

uh no

[whole idol]

How? Pachy can’t turn that well with its ram + it’s pretty inconsistent sometimes when u press rmb u don’t charge (might be a cooldown igggg)

[leaden remnant]

yea it's pretty inconsistent but it doesn't have checks yknow

it's just walk up and hold rmb then release it

also pounce is buggy as heck rn so

main issue with it are how hitboxes work when pouncing that somehow allow under certain circumstances to be hit when already pouncing

[whole idol]

While pouncing a bigger target lol

[leaden remnant]

yis

[whole idol]

Not if they keep moving in circles lol, raptor can land a pounce way easier objectively speaking

[leaden remnant]

it's more so about the aim and timing

even if the person keeps moving in circles, it's not difficult to bonk

[whole idol]

Raptor can do that aswell but with better turn radius so it’s still easier

[leaden remnant]

i gotta ask tho

have u been pinned down recently by a raptor

[whole idol]

Lmao

Yes I have

[leaden remnant]

alr

based on that what kind of counterplay would u like to give it

[whole idol]

Ye so I’m mad atm

[leaden remnant]

no idc about that the question wasnt about that

[whole idol]

Uhh drk

[leaden remnant]

ive been pinned down as well and it was just "guess ill die"

but from my perspective as a raptor, it's kinda needed to have it

it really aids you in actually catching your prey

[whole idol]

In an ambush yes, a target shouldn’t be able to escape but in a fight it’s way too op

[leaden remnant]

keep in mind raptors go around tryna find nimble prey that can just avoid them in an instant

dryos, herreras, etc

well tbf dryos have it more difficult

herreras and dilos have it easier (herreras can just jump up to a tree) and dilos can just run

so all the small prey that raptor hunts for the diet has a way to get out of there asap excepting dryo who is just BOIIIII IM RUNNIN

so it makes sense to allow raptor to just say "hehe boi i got you"

and well troodon has the funniest counterplay there is

troodons literally insta kill anyone who pins it down 💀

[whole idol]

There still should be some sort of counterplay and you can always scavenge if u can’t find prey

[leaden remnant]

you can't scavenge food that no other dino can even catch

and ppl set too many traps to make it even worth it

[whole idol]

Traps? Don’t happen often from what I see

[whole idol]

There is plenty of food at east plains and u can live off ai aswell, I don’t really see a problem tbh

[leaden remnant]

there is no way in hell i will get close to east plains

[frail bobcat]

you should, its the best place to get diets to grow as any carni

[leaden remnant]

it is by far the worst

since leaving it and just doing other tricks, my success rate has gone from like 30% to 100%

[whole idol]

Where do u even live lmao?

[leaden remnant]

swamp and highlands

[frail bobcat]

you die more often, but perfect diet is basically garuanateed

[leaden remnant]

i typically hide in sneaky places

and then when i need food i come out

[whole idol]

Well if you don’t wanna interact with other players that’s fine

[leaden remnant]

same with highlands

[frail bobcat]

highlands is fun

[leaden remnant]

very

[whole idol]

It isn’t very populated lately tho

[frail bobcat]

its enough

you kill a stego to have food and you usually dont get interupted during hunts

[leaden remnant]

no pachies trying to kill me for existing

no carno pack tryna end my misery

only me and my soon will be food

[whole idol]

I just know that your a solo lonely raptor lol

[leaden remnant]

im actually not

i play with like 6 other raptors

very rarely solo

we all do the same thing and our average lifetime is around 10 hours instead of 2

[frail bobcat]

you will usually find a few omnis around highlands

so being lonely is not a thing on highlands

[leaden remnant]

^^

[whole idol]

Damn, I’ve been there before but haven’t met that many players, guess I was at the wrong time

[frail bobcat]

you spawn south plains, get food and diets, grow for a bit and then its off to highlands

[leaden remnant]

probably

if the migration zone ain't there, it's not worth it

but when it is there, it's a populated area with a lot of food around

[whole idol]

I see

[leaden remnant]

there's a lot of great places to be in

the funniest one is raptors being on tree branches like herreras LOL

oh my lord the most hilarious thing ive seen in this game when a stego saw 5 raptors on tree branches and 2 dead fg stegos in the mud

my man just backs off 2 calls and runs away

[whole idol]

Lmao that sounds nice, Highlands is like my fav location but I never go there cuz i’m a herrera lol

[leaden remnant]

oh highlands is amazing sometimes

it's a somewhat open area with water and easy food + great safe places

[whole idol]

U making me wanna go there rn lol

[leaden remnant]

my favorite part of the map by far

[whole idol]

[coarse blaze]

Pachy's alt has a cooldown now right?

[whole idol]

#balance-feedback message, how are so many disagreeing wth

Least biased raptor mains

[frail bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/yapping-yapping-level-today-catastrophic-yapanese-gif-13513208407930173397

[whole idol]

Brainrot

[frail bobcat]

The only things that are around omnis size that it pins that are adults are actually only omnis and gallis

I also disagree because omnis are exposing themselves heavily by pinning something, especially in a group fight

Its the same with you dont pick fight with deinos when you are below the grab threshold and there is good chance that a lunge can hit you

If you are below 450 kg, stay away from raptors

[frail bobcat]

Also, why the insult?

I am very sorry that you believe that my brain is not functioning correctly because my views on game balance dont alligm themselves with your views

[whole idol]

U started tho

[whole idol]

How is it fair for a solo raptor to one tap 90% pachies? No effort when fighting lol there should be counterplay

[whole idol]

Deinos are a completely different playstyle, they are ambushers who hit hard once unlike raptors

[frail bobcat]

You preemptively called everyone downvoting you a raptor main

[frail bobcat]

How does this disprove anything I said? I said you need to treat them like deinos, so that you just wont fight them below a certain weight

[cosmic pelican]

If you manage to ram them before the pounce connects youll be fine

Even if the omni is flying straight at you, you can knock it out of the air before the pounce connects

[whole idol]

Bc it’s too op for his given playstyle? One shotting anything it’s size is broken

[whole idol]

Pouncing is easier tho

[cosmic pelican]

And even if you react late and tap ram, youll break its leg, disabiling the pounce entirely or break its body which means itll run out of stamina even if it pins you

[whole idol]

They usually pounce at a close range

[whole idol]

Why treat them like a whole diffrent creature, not the same boat

[whole idol]

Aight so any carni around it’s size can’t fight it? Perfectly balanced

[cosmic pelican]

Then dont let them get close, you can knock them over

[keen plover]

I do agree with this. It's pretty unfair when you auto die to a pin, when galli for example had a chance in previous updates

[whole idol]

Pretty hard since pachy has a bad turn radius

[cosmic pelican]

Didnt have problems with it myself

[keen plover]

You'd bleed out sure? But sometimes you could escape and live. Now there's 0 chance

Maybe if a raptor pinned you from behind as galli it could maul you, but from the front as well? ehhhh.

[frail bobcat]

I can agree with this

[whole idol]

How will other carnis around their size fight them? It will be way too op of a ability when other dinos are added

[cosmic pelican]

Troodon and herrera do fine against omnis. Same for smaller carnos and dilos. The only playable that struggles vs them at a young age is cera, but it becomes an omni killing machine at adult so I guess thats fair.

In short im sure every playable will have a way to escape them. Either by pure speed, endurance or special abilities like diving.

[whole idol]

So we can only escape while encountering a raptor bc it’s too strong… how is that Balanced also troodon isn’t its size

[cosmic pelican]

You dont have to fight everything you see

Having a bad matchup is fine

[whole idol]

Everything its size is a bad matchup lmao?

[whole idol]

The point is that u should be able to fight them???

[cosmic pelican]

Idk why lag matters in this discussion.
Also, just climb

[whole idol]

How will Austros deal with raptors? Or anything its size lol + the tree was far away What could the herrera have done

[cosmic pelican]

Austro can dive.
And dont go into the plains as a herrera, for the same reason you dont go onto land as deino

[whole idol]

Your basically saying nothing should fight Raptors lmao

[cosmic pelican]

If youre smaller than an omni, why is it bad that you cant 1v1 it? I dont get it

[whole idol]

What about its size or like 10 kg more lmao

[cosmic pelican]

You still have ways to escape

[whole idol]

Ceras can defeat carnos and vice versa lol, its No problem

[whole idol]

Ah yes lets have every omni sized dino escape amd stand No chance

[whole idol]

Why is it so important for u to kill Austros and gallis by one tapping? I get it if your bad at combat like

[cosmic pelican]

If its smaller than an omni then yeah it should be disadvantaged, still cant see why that is a problem.

[whole idol]

What about its direct size or a bit bigger

U want it to one tap lmao

[cosmic pelican]

Thanks for the insult, but please stay away from using them in the future.

Im not here to argue about how the mechanic was designed, but both of those playables you mentioned have very clear, and easy ways to avoid getting pinned.

[cosmic pelican]

Iirc only omni is 450kg on the whole roster (even if its finished)

[whole idol]

I was refering to raptor mains not u

[cosmic pelican]

Mb👍

[keen plover]

Pin is unfair when the raptor has high latency lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNcA811xFyo < me as the raptor with high latency

[whole idol]

A juvi 450 carno?

[cosmic pelican]

It stays at 450 for less than a minute, thats such a niche interaction it doesnt even worth mentioning imo

[whole idol]

Some future playables will be abt the Raptors size, should it really one tap

[cosmic pelican]

If they have ways to effectively counter it, then yeah ig

[whole idol]

They should still remove it being able to one tap using pin no?

[cosmic pelican]

I mean, it puts the omni in a very vulnerable position, so its only effective if your prey is completely alone. If it has friends youll just get mauled.

[keen plover]

It used to not pre gateway

Everything over like 300kg got away with uber bleed

[whole idol]

Raptors usually have friends so not likely

[whole idol]

Should be like that

[cosmic pelican]

Still makes the omni doing the lin vulnerable, and if it does have friends, chances are youll be able to hear/see them

An omni pack is pretty hard to miss

[whole idol]

The friends will be able to protect it tho and still, one tapping a similar sized creature in a fight is crazy do yk how that sounds, everything its size is forced to retreat and can’t fight

[cobalt dagger]

I would disagree, lots of babies can't escape it. Baby ceras in particular come to mind.
Unless, 'growing up' is the 'way to get out,' in which case I agree.

However, because pounce takes some level of aim and skill from the raptor, I am ok with this.

Herra sadly can be pinned by raptor as an adult, however it can also one-shot raptor with a pounce to the head, at least in the non-horde test version

They kinda both one shot each other in the right conditions and both require some aim to do it

Aim or ambush or both

[leaden remnant]

honestly babus don't even count

sure you can pin a fresh spawn stego but...

[cobalt dagger]

Maybe when we add other dinos near it's size we can make some other adjustments balance wise, to speed, turn radius, stamina, ect to help them not die so cheesy-ily to raptors.

[cobalt dagger]

They do count when the statement is 'everything you can pin has some way to escape you,'
But in terms of balance, I do not count babies.

Not always, it depends on the situation.

Baby-ness is temporary. Avoiding raptors at all costs - temporarily - feels ok, but 'forever' gets frustrating.

Unless you have some way to avoid things easily, like ptera/herra, at which point you kinda avoid the whole roster in different circumstances as those two.

I do see people mentioning, 'something bigger should have an advantage.'

I feel like it's more complicated than this but if I forget the complications and look at it from a perspective of pure realism, I agree.

From a gameplay perspective- We can satisfy both gameplay and realism by adjusting things correctly in terms of things like grow time and stamina.

Giving faster stamina regen to... Some random defenseless tiny herbivore, like our current day Dyro before it gets burrowing, would make it more pleasant to play, as well as decreasing grow timer.

Gameplay wise, I prefer that 'who gets advantage to kill who' is determined by 'who NEEDS to kill who to survive' + 'Who has put in more time investment and who will loose the most time investment at death'
I understand others may have other preferences, and that this statement is merely a statement of my own preference.

We can make this 'fit' with the size of an animal properly, by adjusting it's growtime, and ease of life, and adjusting it's time investment, to fit it's size.

However this isn't entirely feasible because some creatures have higher escape/survival priority simply on the premise of their design. Ptera flies. You can catch it when it lands, especially if you're herra, it's not invincible (nor should it be), but the flight is a HIGHLY successful escape method compared to other escape methods of other playables.

And growth and time investment does not impact this, it flies as soon as it's born. I don't feel that Ptera is unbalanced though.

Particularly because ptera isn't very good at killing things. It CAN of course but clearly other playables are better at killing.

Perhaps that should be added into assessment of priority.

[leaden remnant]

well ig yes

[cobalt dagger]

I feel okay with stego - inspite of it's high ability to murder - because of it's lack of ability to chase larger things. If you want to live, stego isn't very oppressive. If you want to kill, then stego is infuriating because you can't kill it.

Of course, no matter what you want to do - kill, pvp, nest, socialize, make a dryo burrow, watch other players - No matter what your heart's desire is, you may find it harder to do if you are DEAD*, and so things that murder you over and over with no control in your own hands, will also be frustrating. That's what would categorize as an 'oppressive' species such as, when Carno had insta-charge.

*Exception being, if you want to die, it won't be harder to do that. But I doubt players come only for that.

I've heard they may someday make Teno more aquatic. At first I did not like the idea because they talked about making it smaller.

I feel like the size now is fine, but if they wanted to trade some of it's combat prowess with a bit of aquatic escape and give it something cool like being able to survive near the ocean or on islands, and then reduced grow time since it would become a 'lower' tier than carno, then it would make sense. Might be nice actually, if it had some way to escape groups. Not full-proof, since bigger things live in the water, but a 'duck' style of escape - Big thing in the water? Go on land. Big thing on land? Go in water. Big thing in both places?... Uh, well, probably die, so it's not fullproof, but nothing should be invincible. Maybe if you're lucky you can get both big things to hit each other and go from one medium to another.

However I will say, I did really enjoy the concept of something that could cancel carno charge, with some level of timing.

Maybe that's because I like to reflect rockets as pyro on TF2.

I wouldn't mind if they kept it but made it harder to pull off somehow.

I have to go do other things now, whoever reads all this, thank you for listening to my rambling.

[cobalt dagger]

Or just gave me some other creature with a similar ability.

[mint star]

this guy is a certified yapscallion

[whole idol]

Aiming dosent take skill, its a pretty big hitbox and easy to land

[whole idol]

He spitting facts lol

[hasty coyote]

@distant prairie something similar to option C already exists. As you stack venom on the target, they will glow green. Then once they are at stage 3 they glow purple. You have to scent to see it though.

[keen plover]

Increased stamina drain is overkill

[grand grail]

I think they meant a batsignal kind of idea where troodons in other areas can detect a hunt happening.

But the player economy is so bad in this game I doubt even that would be useful.

[tight cove]

@round nexus they did already 💀

[woven girder]

I get why people need an "unstuck" button but can we talk about players abusing it with denios grabbing them, So they can get out of it?

[keen plover]

That... works?

[dusky surge]

wait, does it? Now I need to test that

[keen plover]

The deino counter I've always wanted lets goooooo

[dusky surge]

does this also mean pin can be countered?

[keen plover]

yoo?

[dusky surge]

oh my god stegos killing rex because it unstucks itself when it gets crushed lol

[woven girder]

https://tenor.com/view/bernie-mac-smh-gif-27571314

[rare summit]

I can see unstuck not being a thing for very long if this gets abused, or the /unstuck cooldown being made even longer

[dusky surge]

Pounce to pin a stego with your raptor pack? Fool that you are, /unstuck

the possibilities lol

[shadow vortex]

Can’t they just make the /unstuck in the server menu? Nearby a dino panel

[rare summit]

or give it a countdown before it activates or something... like the 60sec countdown for safelogging

[mint star]

or put a system in place that denies unstuck command when within a pinned state

[keen plover]

tested being pinned & grabbed and it didn't work

spammed the command as well

[tight cove]

If this actually works that’s insane, this must be tested immediately lol

[neon willow]

Honestly any system that requires no user input for 60 seconds (or sitting down for 60 seconds) would automatically count for this though because you can't sit while pounced or lunged

[cedar beacon]

this .Unstuck .command only works when you are not near a player, tried the command but didnt let me use it until the Player ran away

[cobalt dagger]

This seems like a good solution.

[round nexus]

Is the unstuck command in evrima??

[daring spindle]

Not on the live branch, but on the hordetesting branch there is

[ruby bronze]

-sigh- wish unstuck was automated

[torn egret]

It will be once horde testing is done.
Lot of conditions need to be met for it to work.

Combat timer, and activation time for unstuck etc

[leaden remnant]

that is quite literally impossible and would be the most horrendous thing in the game

the game doesnt know when you're stuck, and if they did it so if you're surrounded by (insert thing here) you get auto tped somewhere else, people would go insane after being unable to frickin play this game, being tped everywhere and finally being tped off a cliff and dying, respawning and immediately being tped for like 10 mins till u fall off a cliff or drown again

[ruby bronze]

goodpoint- have you seen Subnautica's way around getting stuck? They do it well. They didnt have to really account for fall damage, no

[torn egret]

Automated sounds awful lol. Def a command in the menu would be best imo

[ruby bronze]

literally moves you two feet in another direction

[ruby bronze]

sorry thats what i meant- an actual command list for users who are non administrative

[torn egret]

They have a command that’s in horde test rn

Can’t move during and takes a few moments to activate now

[ruby bronze]

so i hear- i suppose a lot of things will be in test still

[torn egret]

I rarely get stuck anymore, but I also don’t climb every mountain or cliff I see lol. I think it happens more to herbi players since they constantly go off the beaten path to hide after they eat.

[coarse blaze]

@molten belfry Teno bleed is fine, it only needs a stamina nerf and not even a massive one at that.

[molten belfry]

its not fine

3 hit and i dead

[ruby bronze]

yeah haha- where my impatience is stemming from. Got stuck as a sub adult stego in a lip by a dam

[frail bobcat]

with what?

[molten belfry]

game lagged and it hit me 3 time

i died becasue of bleed

not fine

broken

[frail bobcat]

which playable were you playing?

[torn egret]

Teno bleed is a lot tho. 4 alt hits can take a cera to half blood. The stamina isn’t as big of an issue now that the attack has a slight cooldown imo. But the kick and claws is rough imo

[frail bobcat]

and which attacks hit you

[molten belfry]

kick

its broken get over with it

[frail bobcat]

as which playable?

[torn egret]

What were you and how grown?

[molten belfry]

full adult carno

its not balanced

[frail bobcat]

did it hit your face?

[molten belfry]

no

[coarse blaze]

I feel like this is bait

[molten belfry]

its not bait

[frail bobcat]

were you running?

[molten belfry]

if i cant run then how i live

teno its not broken the bleed its brokeni

[coarse blaze]

It does do a lot of bleed but I don't agree that it's over the top at all, my issue with it's stamina is that it can chase something down and still have the stamina to kill it.

[torn egret]

Lmao yup that sounds right. Teno does too much bleed, that’s happened to me too.
But the issue is, if you’re bleeding that bad how do you run? 1 stun and carno toast

[frail bobcat]

there is your answer, running massively multiples the amount of blood you lose

[molten belfry]

ehre is my naswer nurf tenanto bleed

then how i live

by walking

[coarse blaze]

Plenty of carnos deal just fine with tenos

[torn egret]

I think it’s running stam cost should increase, but I think attack stam cost is ok. What about you?

[molten belfry]

and again taking kick

[frail bobcat]

not taking 3 kicks and running around like a headless chicken

[torn egret]

If there’s less than 2 teno and more than 1 carno usually

[molten belfry]

no bleed is massivelt broken

[coarse blaze]

I actually feel the opposite, I think some of the attacks take too little stamina honestly. I'm a big fan of teno but I do feel like it has a lot of stamina.

[molten belfry]

because of carno skin

[frail bobcat]

what?

[molten belfry]

carno taking more bleed then any other big dinos such as cera

[coarse blaze]

You're not wrong, herds are more common for sure but seeing duos or trios of carnos isn't too uncommon either really. I think it depends on experience for sure. A 1v1 it's more in favor for the teno which I really enjoy but it's not an impossible fight for sure.

[frail bobcat]

cera has a bleed resistance

[coarse blaze]

Cera has great bleed res, carno has none

[frail bobcat]

atleast partially

I heard that you can bleed a cera normally once its below a certain amount of health

[molten belfry]

lots of people dont want any tenanto nurf because lots of people like to play tenanto

[coarse blaze]

There are plenty people who think it should get a nerf, just not what you're asking for.

[frail bobcat]

no, because usually you can escape after getting kicked once or twice, which you can survive. you just got screwed over by lag and now you blame it on a issue which is not there

[molten belfry]

stamina and hitbox and mostly the bleed

[torn egret]

The problem you have is its ability to chase, which I think is a valid concern. IMO, a herbi shouldn’t be able to outrun a carnivore in terms of stam, cause what happens is the carni knows it’ll lose, but can’t run away like you said. If Herbivores are going to have a chance to fight off carnis, they can’t also run em down.

[molten belfry]

the problem is bleed

[coarse blaze]

Not to mention it has a great trot, it'll walk down things if it can't outright chase them. As a cera genuinely tenos concern me the most.

[molten belfry]

if you 3 hit from teno kick as carno you basicly dead

[frail bobcat]

as I told you, you can and will survive the bleed of two kicks as a carno even when running, the lag screwed you over

[coarse blaze]

Don't stand behind it and get kicked

[molten belfry]

please stop that i lived that and you dont

i played carno since the relase

[frail bobcat]

what?

you just sound like you are salty because you died and now need to vent

[torn egret]

I actually usually win fights against tenos as cera. Only need 2 good charged attacks and a bite and the vomit does the rest. Not to mention, it’s easy to get a pack confused and cause friendly fire. Cera is a goat in defensive fights imo

[torn egret]

Bro, stats show that a carno will bleed out if kicked 3 times in a row by teno, you got server lagged and want teno nerf, when the issue is mostly server side

[molten belfry]

its still server issue

however its still not balanced to kill because of 3 kick

[torn egret]

I think it’s bs that you died to 3 kicks just to be clear. Herbivore have almost more kill potential than carnivores

[molten belfry]

there is no counterplay of that

[molten belfry]

i died to bleed

if you sit or walk tenanto chase you like carnivore

how to survive

[torn egret]

I mean, don’t get kicked, or change your play style. Carnos struggle in any fight if they get stopped.
Teno needs a stam rework more than bleed rework.

[molten belfry]

dont agree

its need badly bleed nurf

[torn egret]

Well, agree to disagree I guess. But you just stating you disagree doesn’t do much for discussion and feedback

Then teno needs 3 attacks to be dynamic to play, but I think it needs damage or Stam. Not both

[coarse blaze]

Cera does shine with it comes to defense, genuinely a super capable carnivore despite it's size.

I love how you upvoted your own post, I wondered who agreed.

[torn egret]

Lmao I think it’s automatic lmao

Cause it adds emotes for people to say yes, but the X has to be added I think

[torn egret]

The way I like to play cera is to always be moving around your quarry, and play the long game. Vomit sickness is amazing. 2 throwups, and you can just tap here and there for bleed and let them starve or dehydrate. Stegos hate me lmao. Tenos I just charge attacks and bait the tail.
I kinda struggle against Carnos now, since I’ve been tail rammed and it seems to just keep the flat 250 dmg regardless of where I think it hit. Plus, you never find a carno in the woods running lol

[coarse blaze]

The automatic emotes the server adds aren't by the postee I don't think, I can honestly put something in there and see if it does it but I don't think it adds any for the balance feeback

Yeah it didn't add anything

[torn egret]

That answers the question lol

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to upload your own idea. Obviously you’re up. Vote shows that it’s your idea and you like it, doesn’t actually change overall numbers

Glad to see more folks capable of good discussion tho, a few months ago everyone was butting heads like crazy. Taking everything personally.
Even homie upset with the teno killing him wasn’t that bad imo. It’s a topic several folks have talked about, but I think general consensus is that it’s designed to keep people from just spamming attacks on teno.

We all hated spam cera and spam vomit let’s be honest lmao

[stark knoll]

Only #general-feedback has the automatic reactions, since reactions are otherwise disabled there

#balance-feedback and #ai-feedback have normal reaction permissions, so any reactions in there are by normal users

[coarse blaze]

Oh for sure, even if people disagree it's always nice to see people willing to see and or listen to both sides of the coin.

[cobalt dagger]

I WISH, I can never find them.
And I don't blame them, I don't like to play teno either. It's good at a 1 v 1, but being slower than everyone else is painful.

[cobalt dagger]

I agree, though, it being able to trot things down doesn't suit it. It shouldn't be able to do that.

I think if we could increase other playables to have a faster trot speed, maybe that would help. We want them to be able to travel better anyway, right?

So, maybe rather than nerf teno, we can buff the trot speed of the others. Technically, they can't graze on grass between meals, so they might benefit a lot from being able to travel more effectively.

[halcyon elk]

Or perhaps temporary pit stops across the myriad roads?

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message the fact that you can't regen stamina below 25% as a stego without sitting down is actual bonkers

[unborn iris]

Should just let stego and most herbivores use their main attacks, depending on the dino, without stamina. Just give it a longer cool down or reduced damage or something.

[grand grail]

Absolutely not

[unborn iris]

Yes.

[hasty coyote]

most herbies can use their alt attacks still like the carnis, its just that stego doesnt have alt attacks. Hopefully the kit adjustment gives stego a weaker alt it can actually use.

[unborn iris]

True

[misty valve]

Giving any dino unlimited attacks is uhhhhh not a great idea

[hasty coyote]

so should regular bites cost stam?

because personally I think the opposite is true, every animal should always have a way to attack. However, it doesnt always need to be their best attack. Like teno losing tail slam and kick when itts outta stam is fine, but it should be able to alt still.

stego is the only animal who when they run out of stam, literally lose 95% of their combat potential since all they can do is peck, everything else at least has alt attacks they can use to throw out damage.

[misty valve]

Listen I'm not saying that stego should be screwed once stam runs out. But making attacks not cost stam is not the solution. Like someone mentioned above, they are hopefully going to five stego a less damaging attack it can use once stam runs out. It's strange that it's one of the only dinos that is vulnerable in this way right now.

[hasty coyote]

yeah I misunderstood what you were referring to, I don't think anyone wants stego or any dino to have heavy attacks with no stam cost . I think all of us here just want stego to have a weaker attack it can use while defending itself, that isnt as pitiful as peck.

[misty valve]

Yep, I totally agree with that. I'm curious to see what they're going to give stego. It definitely needs something.

[slim dragon]

Bad

The shopping list diets for carnivores are awful, and organs were a step in the roght direction for removing them
And you want to bring them back ?

[coarse blaze]

It becomes an issue too if you just can't for whatever reason find specific playables, let alone if you kill say a cera as carno and can't reap anything from the experience.

[minor zealot]

very bad idea, whenever I play carnivore, I struggle to find my preferred diet as it depends on what people decide to play that day. some days there is absolutely no omnis or tenos, other days its something entirely different, and with how fast diet drain is I would not survive without organs slighty helping them stay up. They honestly need to add more dinos in carnivores preffered diet list

[hidden kettle]

lol lucky you 😄
for some reason they just mock me all day being faster and for whatever reason way way stronger (healthwise) if both are subadults (like 70-80%) .. been cera since a few hundret hours and really like and enjoy it and getting done with carnos really feels nice ( not that easy imo) but these tenos take multiple headbites without even be botherd.. then just 2 tabbing me with a tail and a kick and thats it 😄 i used to win a lot of fights as cera against tenos but since hordetest i just get bullied by them aint even get to 100% because some -run rampage Teno- sees me from miles aways being faster than me .. somehow these tenos just wanna go to war nowadays 😄

and i really dont know why it is like that now ( ._.)

and even pigs can be faster as a fresh spawn what kinda scks 😄 just spawn and die all time cause some piggys camp me XD

[torn egret]

The reason why a lot of people are afraid of Tenos is because of their sheer raw damage and stunning, but because they’re attack range is so limited, i.e., you have to be right behind or beside the legs and tail to get hit, it’s very easy to be attack Jessy the other night, I was a full-grown Sarah chasing down a full-grown tenno, and they were mixed packing with two full grown Sarah’s. Somehow I managed to win the fight against all three lol. The reason why tenos are scary because everyone tries to run and their stam is crazy. Instead of trying to run away from them, make sure you’re always on their side.
The charge bite is your best friend. Vomit sickness fixes their broken stam lol

[unborn iris]

Teno stam costs are way too low. That's the only issue. Teno is a noob killer, and there's currently a massive influx of new players, so it's understandable that the general consensus is that they're strong. Especially when you can afford to just spam kick and tail slam until you actually manage to hit something.

Teno on offense is also not an easy thing. It doesn't take much skill to avoid them if you are on the defensive.

Also.. the kick and alt bite bleed may be a little high. A little.

[frail bobcat]

Sarah lmao

[hidden kettle]

ye i try that actually 😄 never run off no matter what i rather fight and die ( exepction is a grown deino/stego above 80% 😄 ..obv )
may im just unlucky and meet very good tenos atm on hordetest .. but damn i give em charged headbites and they just turn tail knock me outta nowhere since i even get knocked down if the hit the tip of my tail. sure im to slow curveing around then but still a tail to tail whip knocking feels just not fair if the tank facebites by a bonecrusher 😄
btw on hordetest you cant follow peeps tracks by sniff the vomit.. that should be in it imo since we ceras are slow af (but very good stam tho) , so we can follow em like a commododragon 😄

[hidden kettle]

ye if you get once in the tailspam ya pretty flat XD should be a way stronger stam burn OR cooldown for that dmg i guess. may just the cooldown would be plenty since its not stegos oneshot strong `:D
im fine with them being very strong and got big defensive abilitys 🙂
i just dont like em to go rampage across the map hunting the meat boois XD

[torn egret]

Shut up!!!
Lmao I was using voice to text like a stego

[torn egret]

Think of the Cera as a bull mixed with Komodo dragons lol. Always moving at you, mouth wide open, asking, how does 500 damage (if FG) sound?

That charge bite is your best friend. Chunk of damage, and it affects the stomach bile more.

[hidden kettle]

isnt it 300 (doubled) ?
btw just died to a teno that 2 tapped me with 2tail/kick combs again.. noit hitting my head at all getting at least 2 full charged heads and a few body bites.. puked twice in that long strave fight... tell me i was bad af but at some point i question this existing.. how can it be i feel more confident fighting fckin STEGOS 😄 ... but no headbite to getting tailed since i have to stay like 2 secs on spot for biteing with my force .. like wtf is this .. gettin so frustrated atm about this teno madness... is there any bug or is teno dmg outta nowhere insane 2 shot .. this fkka aint even full grown looked like a 80+ that small '**'+*!"! 😄

[leaden remnant]

wait you got 2 shot as a cera by a teno?

were you full hp or very low

[hidden kettle]

well actually "4" shot since tail/kick mostly comes at once 😄
well i was at least green cant tell if on 100% life killed 2-3 raptors before but was still green and blood was barely scratched before in case you wanna say a cera would bleed out that quick 😄

[leaden remnant]

that's strange...

how many times did you get kicked?

[hidden kettle]

ye that whats happening kinda whole day to me on hordetest so thats why im so confused/frusted/angry about it 😄
i was fine on "normal" gateway 😄

[leaden remnant]

ofc, it doesn't even make sense

a teno does nowhere close to the damage required to kill you with what i presume is 2 tail slams and 2 kicks

it's just... impossible

[hidden kettle]

well just like the tail was kinda 2x Tail/kick (spaming them straight to each other) and may i got one or two bites (possible) while we strave around but didnt even alt attacked me to front 😄

[leaden remnant]

that's just so weird

somehow the damage must've been multiplied

[hidden kettle]

thats what gets me upset 😄
first time that happend i was around late 70% growth there i was like ah cravb may just unlucky (still kinda frusting cause oyu cant defend yourself agsainst a amok teno beause its stronger and faster) 😄

[leaden remnant]

well you can get away from it but

dying to 2 tail slams and 2 kicks is just

[hidden kettle]

thats why i ask if theres a bug heard about cera bug giveing way too much dmg ( which i sadly never got but would love to enjoy one 😄 )

[hidden kettle]

well gettin away is not that ez if its faster quicker turning as good and healthier than yaself 😄
and its really wanting to kill me all time 😄

[cosmic pelican]

It basically looked like this, only worked on alt bite though. And it got fixed in hordetesting already.

Highest i could get the dmg was ~700 per bite

[leaden remnant]

oh yeah no it's not easy

but it's also not impossible at all yknow

[torn egret]

No, base dmg starts at 215, max is 500. No multipliers even on head I think

[cosmic pelican]

Sub ceras only saving grace is water vs a teno

[hidden kettle]

im not gonna say its impossible but most likely you die if a teno wants ya butty cheeks 😄

[leaden remnant]

yep you gotta have terrain to your aid

and very good evasion skills

[hidden kettle]

that water bite still lightning fast ?! 😄

[leaden remnant]

stamina and speed will not save you this time

[hidden kettle]

"speed" the slowest vacuumcleaner to ever got build 😄

[leaden remnant]

pretty much

[hidden kettle]

still love and enjoy it but damn that teno thing gets me today <.<

[leaden remnant]

yep

i mean tbf its attacks require the teno to be in front/at your side so it's easy to evade like that

[cosmic pelican]

Cera swims just as fast as teno, and it can also alt attack in it. So basically you try to cross and if the teno follows you you facetank it, make it vomit and pray to whatever god you believe in that it will leave you alone.

[leaden remnant]

when the teno comes at you to kick you, just go to a side

then ofc go to the water, cross it, and wehn you're on the other sdie, spam alt bite the teno

[hidden kettle]

or it just scratches your tailytail with claw for 50km til you die 😄

[leaden remnant]

then he'd run out of stamina and not deal enough damage nor bleed

and it's also easy to avoid being hit with the claws from behind

so yes it is possible to evade just keep running and dodging

[hidden kettle]

well if we could still pukelock ... 😄
i mean fair it got removed but then make it more usable like sniff there tracks a long time after vomit 😄

[leaden remnant]

most people panic and try to fight back which isn't possible unless you have above average skills

[hidden kettle]

ye all you gotta do is run run run to the sun 😄
-gettin tail bites- ... nope just walk it off til it gets bored 😄

[unborn iris]

I feel like the no delay/lunge charged bite will help a lot with the teno cera matchup.

[leaden remnant]

tail bites can't kill you so you're good

[leaden remnant]

already in hordetesting

[unborn iris]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about

[leaden remnant]

well they can but it's just complicated to kill someone like that

if he spams bite you, when you have the chance just drop an alt bite to his head and keep running

[hidden kettle]

ngl would not say im superior good at it like some peeps tell of emself but id say im not dogS*** ;D and i would be mindless to just go for a fun teno 1v1 with a deathwish to "just eat it" but i won way more teno fight before than now which makes me think what changed.. may im just fighting good tenos.

[leaden remnant]

perhaps

[unborn iris]

They just don't have any downsides to spamming until they land something.

And when they do land something eventually it is punishing.. that bleed is rough.

No way you should get 50 kicks in a row.

Little bit of stam management and you should never run out of stam on teno right now.

[hidden kettle]

problem is just amokteno comein for me .. in a world carnivours become a endangered species 😄

fml 😄

[leaden remnant]

i mean let's be real

50 kicks... nah, never go down 60-70% stamina

so sure it's 50 kicks on paper but in reality... around 7-8 combined with other stuff

[unborn iris]

Ok, so just 20 spammable kicks before you have to worry about going below 60%.

[hidden kettle]

its at least a lot what they can do with that mcuh stam and those hard hitting attacks 😄

[unborn iris]

Still no way that makes sense.

[leaden remnant]

pretty much

[leaden remnant]

well, the only way to defend itself is via stamina attacks

sure it has 50 kicks without regen and stuff but everyone else has infinite

a cera left click doesnt require any stamina

a cera charge bite doesnt require any either

[hidden kettle]

will make less dmg with less stam tho

[leaden remnant]

a carno bite doesnt require any stamina either

[unborn iris]

I mean I like playing teno as much as anything else, I'm fine with playing an overpowered teno. But I feel like it's pretty obvious to anyone without bias that teno stam costs are too low.

[leaden remnant]

im not even biased and i find them reasonable

only because it must use stamina to defend itself with proper attacks

but yeah teno is pretty damn strong

[unborn iris]

And it doesn't need anywhere near as much as it has.

If you use 20 kicks on something you should be way lower than 60% stam and still in very good shape.

[leaden remnant]

when you go below 60%, you're in a bad place

[unborn iris]

You have an alt bite which isn't much weaker.

[hidden kettle]

i just feel like theres missing a tiny bit to make all well 😄

well if i had the chance to get a 600dmg bite spamable for 10% stam i would rin facetank stegos... so im fine if cera bites would take stam then 😄

and dont get me to cera bites should have more dmg because that actually makes sense compared to carno &co 😄

[leaden remnant]

body down buff removes the damage you take considerably so...

when you playin as cera, make sure to alwyas have bodies around you when fighting

[leaden remnant]

and when you're eating, cera damage resistance is insane

raptors cant even deal damage to you when you're eating as a cera

[hidden kettle]

ye i know life is way easier then ~~
ye but i cant eat a raptor to avoid gettin my butt kicked by a teno tail spamming on me 😄

i just have to admit teno > cera 😄
img you are a species that supposed to crack bones with ya biteforce but the tiny teno head is made of iron and you get burned to atoms by a prehistoric cow 😄

[torn egret]

I still think 1v1 cera has advantage. More than 1 cera requires 3 teno.
Assuming average players from what I seen

[hidden kettle]

well may i just found some diehard teno player then 😄
as said never had that much of an issue/difficulty to fight them if needed but atm i feel like a punching bag 😄

[torn egret]

There are mostly only good adult tenos lol. bad ones die early

[keen plover]

Not true tbh

It's easy to get to full adult as anything

[hidden kettle]

ye that what i think got plenty to adult even being agressive and i found a lot of "bad" tenos if you want so since stresstest. just never got so destroyed by em like the last 2 days what makes me think somethings on 😄

[rare summit]

"Fixed the abundance of Fish AI spawning in the smaller swamps by River Delta" more like fully removed the fish

[slim dragon]

Maybe read announcements

[rare summit]

Big rip for crocs

[hidden kettle]

ye crocs got a pretty hard time on hordetest now since they have to eat each other to survive and then no one joins as croc til you starve 😄

[vale brook]

@sterile quarry #balance-feedback message elaborate on the carno

[hidden kettle]

why can halfway grown tenos knock a FG cerato down with kick ?! 😄
im fine with gettin punished to hell from a tail.. but standing on its flank and somehow get a kick that knocks and throws me like a dino lenght back is pretty wierd .. dont even engage tenos anymore and get hunted down by them since they dont give a S aabout charged headbites... wtf is happening here with that prehistoric Terminator 😄

anyone got some numbers what weight they can actually kick down ? not tail .. kick! 😄
im sick of getting kicked to death way to fast from a teno thats nearly half my size like what did i missed last month on changes ?! 😄

[leaden remnant]

da hell

[frail bobcat]

What in the Fortnite Battle Pass am I reading?

[leaden remnant]

i mean tbf a fg cera can obliterate a small teno

if he tries to kill you just bonk him

[cosmic pelican]

Not even a fg teno can knock down a fg cera with kick.
You must be under 50% of the tenos weight to be knocked down.

[hidden kettle]

well thats wierd since he kicked me and i got knocked and got thrown like 5ft 😄
and that teno was a subadult maybe .. sure they didnt changed something on hordetest ?

[cosmic pelican]

Nope, 100% sure

[hidden kettle]

just got herrerapunced by sitting in one of the trees that lay around ... hit reg is a wierd thing 😄

was save against the stego at least 😄
btw any numbers on herreras ambush dmg ? killed a lot of dilos and raptors yesterday and feels like pretty decent

dont wanna complain about it that feels pretty well balanced on herrera

[unborn iris]

More damage than a deino bite, and probably more bleed than a full pounce from a raptor.

[cosmic pelican]

Depends a lot on the height, but max dmg is ~700 iirc

You must fall for a pretty long time to reach it though

[hidden kettle]

damn ok i thought that dilos i got may been smaller as i thought but thats actually damn good for its size 😄
thought its kinda its weight-ish 😄
well falling on a eatin dino that doesnt expect you is not that hard. but didnt thought you actually can oneshot fg raptors and dilos 😄

[leaden remnant]

well no you can't 1 shot raptors or dilos

a kick to the head iirc puts you at 1hp as a raptor

[hidden kettle]

bruh i dont get whats on with the tenos even one small enough for the sanctuary destroys me on a 600kg carno atm 😄
i just dont get it used to have a ez pick on them now im their prey somehow xD

[leaden remnant]

however a few months ago i got 1 tapped by a teno so...

[leaden remnant]

wat

okay that's genuinely impossible

[hidden kettle]

well he came out of it and wrecked my B 😄

[leaden remnant]

i don't understand how you get knocked down by something half your weight

[hidden kettle]

also got stunned without getting knocked down so my dino was just standing in place screaming XD

[leaden remnant]

nor how you get obliterated by a small as heck teno

something weird is going on

[hidden kettle]

i dont know but since hordetest i just get abolutely destroyed by tenos if its on a cera or carno just gett B kicked 😄

may hitreg just against me and rubberbands or something idk .. just die to them all the time i met one .. and as cera you cant even run away from that terminator xD

[hidden kettle]

dunno at some point i think that weight needed is just bugged on test or someting 😄
gettin thrown throu the air like a toy by a kick from something nearly half your size xD
i just try to avoid em from now on ..

[leaden remnant]

must be

[hidden kettle]

i mean tenos should be powerful and hard to get but i never had that big problems with em 😄
i feel bullied by herbies atm XD

[leaden remnant]

herbis are definetely bullies but ive never seen anyone having the issues you mention

[hidden kettle]

well i didnt used to ahve these issues like that 2 month ago 😄
i came back after 40-50 days off since last week and for some reason i feel like a lot stuff changed wayyyy harder than i thought 😄

i mean tenos for example always been not ez to kill but now im loseing every 1v1 and get destroyed in ways i cant even imagine .. like that kicks knock me down with me being obviously bigger .. getting really frustrated to be honest.
With a raptor i feel way more confident or on a Dilo.. but as cera as soon as i see a teno i know im dead. no doubt about it .,. just dead 😄

[leaden remnant]

@grand grail you can aim the dismount already

just look towards the direction you want to dismount

and if you look up, you'll jump further

[unborn iris]

@grand grail Aiming the dismount is already a thing, but you can only aim out from the side you're pounced to a certain degree. If you aim too far past the stego it just default launches you straight off the side.

[hidden kettle]

would love to be able to like climb over to the other side of a stego while ripping flesh 😄
your harder to hit for others helping (like get bitten off a carno from another) and you could change side in that cliff case. ( for a big amount of stamina ofc which leads to shorter pounce and lesser bleeding) i think there could be a way to work that out actually.
still the downside for that should be pretty much to avoid abuseive behavior and balance it. like lets say 30% of your stam or even 35% could be good but may still too good in therms that can be life saveing

[coarse blaze]

Until bucking actually works rather than slowly draining their stamina allowing for bleed that'll result in death regardless, I'm all for doing whatever you can to disengage them.

[grand grail]

How limited is it? Doesn't seem to do much for me. There's no way to manually drop down from it instead of jumping?

[spare prairie]

Teno for delete !

[dusky surge]

nah

[slim dragon]

Why

[coarse blaze]

[whole idol]

It can bleed out carnos yes u heared me, somehow it can☠️. It also deals 30000 in damadge without having to worry about stamina

[daring spindle]

Ah yes the perfect reason to delete it

[keen plover]

Only issue is the stamina cost

[whole idol]

Hyperbolic, have u ever heard of that

[daring spindle]

Joke, have you ever heard of it?

[whole idol]

And it’s bleed which is insane. Aren’t herbis supposed to be pve and not actively hunt players. Why would it need to bleed out a target?

[whole idol]

[keen plover]

To stop the target from coming back? Bleed screws with healing lol and tells the Carno to back off without outright killing it. The only time a Teno is hunting you is if you mess up as the carnivore.

[whole idol]

It’s not a defence mechanism if they can follow you and make sure you don’t rest😭

It’s still flawed

Bleed just won’t work for tenos

[keen plover]

Not really.

Depends on whether you think herbis should be able to kill confirm

I think they should be able to

[whole idol]

They should kill when players keep coming but

Not when they are retreating

After they just got hit with a 300000 N attack with insane bleed

[thin mantle]

Why not tho

[whole idol]

Why would you want a herbivore hunting players

[keen plover]

To punish bad carnivore plays

[thin mantle]

Because it enables them some agency over the ecosystem and being able to reduce their threats actively instead of having to wait for those threats to amass in numbers and wipe them out with little effort

[whole idol]

Maybe even the most skilled of players gets hit by a teno atleast once

[keen plover]

A teno isn’t killing you in one stun cycle

[thin mantle]

It’s not even able to stun cycle anymore really

[keen plover]

You’d have to come back for a second

[thin mantle]

Attack cooldowns axed it’s damage potential

[whole idol]

It’s kick stuns you for like 10 mins allowing it to spawn kick or whatever

[keen plover]

It’s at most getting 2 kicks. 1 if it tail slams you

[whole idol]

So by making every carnivore unable to hunt them? Then tenos have no threats other than deinos which can easily be avoided

[thin mantle]

Because of how short stuns are and how long the attack cooldown on teno is atm you can get off an average of 1 extra attack after the first stun is landed, depending on the attack used and whether you land headshots or not that’s not enough to kill an Omni in one stun cycle

[whole idol]

No the kick itself stuns you not the slam

[thin mantle]

Teno is extremely huntable. Every carnivore in the game can hunt teno besides ptera even solo, the one who threatens them the least ironically would be deino atm

Especially right now since bucking is essentially a cosmetic mechanic

[keen plover]

What?

Tail slam stuns Carno

[thin mantle]

Slam and kick have identical stun properties and thresholds

One does more damage and bleed, the other has more range no bleed and less damage

[unborn iris]

Slam has a different threshhold for knockdown, doesn't it?

[keen plover]

Yeah. It was changed with cerato’s release

[thin mantle]

Wait really?

What is it?

[whole idol]

It’s not huntable at all, it got extremely high damadge front and back without having to worry about the stamina. It also got insanely high bleed, scaring off every carnis except for ceras

[keen plover]

Kick used to knock anything that was below 1600kg

Same with slam

[whole idol]

Had to edit that

[unborn iris]

Higher stam usage on kick and tail slam will make all the difference in the world vs tenos.

[thin mantle]

Sounds like a skill issue tbh
They have high stam but especially now teno is very easy to exploit since their damage windows are so short atm

[unborn iris]

Not having to worry about stamina that much on teno makes you much more likely to go for riskier kicks and stuff.

[keen plover]

Yeah I spam it

[unborn iris]

Same

[thin mantle]

Mhm

[keen plover]

No need to worry. One hit is all I need 😔

Also if you stand you regen it quickly lol

[whole idol]

How dare you insult me, it’s not only me with this problem and you ignored my points

[keen plover]

Or trot since same regen rate

[whole idol]

Not short enough anyway and with how horrible the game is with desync and all it makes no difference

[whole idol]

No respone after getting debunked lmao?

Annoying goofball

[thin mantle]

lol I was eating

[thin mantle]

Desync isn’t a balanceable element it effects every creature in the game negatively and creature stats and abilities shouldn’t be adjusted off of it since that is the server having poor functionality, it doesn’t disproportionately advantage any creature because it effects the reliable response of every player to what’s happening.

Teno deals higher damage and bleed than average with some of its attacks because it’s an obligate defensive creature with the vast majority of its damage being attacks that only can be used if something is behind the Tenonto, meaning they can’t be used in a chase unless the creature is already out of stamina and can’t run away, in which case they’ve made a colossal number of mistakes to have reached that state, they’re going down.

Tenos stun duration is only long enough to cast one additional attack on average, it’s not that much.

It actually used to be much longer before it was nerfed a couple updates back, and that was when teno lacked an attack cooldown and even then it was fairly well balanced

And the best part about Tenonto if you consider them too difficult to fight is that you don’t have to, the only carnivore that’s even the same speed as them is Cerato, everything else can walk in the opposite direction or run away easily

[whole idol]

Desync helps out tenos the most and I didn’t say that the whole roster should get changed up because of horrible coding. I never said that it shouldn’t be defensive but it is too strong to even attempt hunting.

[thin mantle]

How does it help them more than other Dino’s

You haven’t proved why it’s too difficult to hunt either, especially since teno is a creature I consider soloable on most of the carni roster atm

[tropic horizon]

Time to drop my two cents in on teno balance discussion since that seems to be what’s taking place here. It needs like, the slightest tiniest nerf and that’s it. Everything else about it is fine to me. It can fight back very well against everything but isn’t completely infallible and all it needs is the slightest tweak to its stam to incentivize it to not just brainlessly spam out attacks.

[keen plover]

Literally that’s it lol

If you want easier prey to hunt, go after small tiers as your Carno

[whole idol]

Having everything run at the sight of teno is… It would remove the fear from the teno player since they know that basically nothing can hurt them. Since they are mid tier herbis they should have to worry about something

[thin mantle]

Yup

[tropic horizon]

Like it can still get dunked on by packs of predators and cerato vs teno is actually very very balanced surprisingly more than most fights in the game.

[keen plover]

Larger carnivores will be added

[whole idol]

Idc about what you consider tho

[whole idol]

Mate, having only T Rex’s hunting them is absurd

[keen plover]

I personally don’t struggle with hunting tenos so idk

[whole idol]

Teno absolutely destroys a pachy not even a debate

[tropic horizon]

Carnivore packs are still something tenos have to fear, and packs really really tear them to shreds more so than most other animals as their attacks leave large vulnerable windows for the other members to attack.

[keen plover]

2 carnos = dead teno pretty much every time

[whole idol]

What do you play as

[whole idol]

With atleast one dead carno

[thin mantle]

Well same, that’s why I’d need some objective data to go off of, I haven’t gotten any just that teno isn’t possible to bunt and does way too much damage, those claims haven’t been substantiated, so I have nothing to work with

[tropic horizon]

Okay? The animal is 3 times its size and pachy can just run away from a teno. Not to mention one good body fracture and you’ve marked the teno for death practically.

[keen plover]

I play everything pretty much, but Carno is probably my favourite

[tropic horizon]

Cerato can also decimate a teno in a 1v1 given careful play. Though it is a very even fight on both sides.

[thin mantle]

It’s also funny that for several updates straight now Pachy no diffed teno so hard it could be considered comedy

[keen plover]

If you get a leg fracture, the pachy can beat the Teno

[whole idol]

Mate teno does a large amount of damadge we can test it out

[thin mantle]

Just recently has that not been the case with Pachys stuns

[whole idol]

Wym by “hasn’t been substantiated”

[thin mantle]

I agree it has good damage, higher than most per attack, why is that a problem

Those attacks have some of the longest list of hit conditions relative to the other attacks in the game so, idk seems to check out

[tropic horizon]

How is teno doing good damage an issue at all. It needs to defend itself like man you can’t just expect it to flop over to any carnivore

[keen plover]

Teno damage value:
125n claw
150n slam
275n kick

Carno:
175n bite
200n alt bite
250n tap ram
300n knockdown ram

Cera:
150n bite
200n alt bite
345n charge bite

[thin mantle]

Oh wow nevermind I take it all back

Tenos damage is borderline average

[whole idol]

When did I say that? It literally can bleed out carnos while stunning opponents allowing them to get multiple free hits

[thin mantle]

Thanks bird I needed it all listed in order to see it

[keen plover]

No problem

[tropic horizon]

*200n+ alt bite with the bug but that’s not really a balanceable factor just kinda wanted to point that out

[keen plover]

True but it was patched on the HT at least

[thin mantle]

Again, the stun timer is objectively not long enough in conjunction with the attack cooldown to land more than a single additional hit after stunning the majority of the time

[thin mantle]

I honestly thought claw did more damage tbh

Everything else was committed to memory already

[keen plover]

The dps is good tbf

[thin mantle]

It is

Well tbf it’s also effected by the attack cooldown

[keen plover]

But it’s the exact same damage as dilos alt bite

[thin mantle]

So I can’t really say that rn

[tropic horizon]

Claw does an insanely good amount of damage and also has a really big hitbox comparative to most other attacks in the game so it usually can hit a headshot pretty easily

[whole idol]

Hyperbolical statement but still 1 extra free hit is a big advantage

[keen plover]

Not enough to kill a Carno

You get stunned once. Just run off. Don’t go back unless you’ve done enough damage to risk the hunt

[thin mantle]

Right that’s the point of the stun, it’s not even enough to kill an Omni unless you’re landing headshots or using kicks in one combo

[whole idol]

…….

[tropic horizon]

Yeah giving up on the fight and escaping with your life is usually the right call in most cases

[whole idol]

Then there is no reason for the insane amount of bleed?

[tropic horizon]

I do have to point out that if you stun an omni with your kick you have effectively one shot them as you’re just gonna follow that up with another kick like 99% of the time

[keen plover]

How’d you get that from what I wrote?

The bleed is the reason you’re meant to move away and avoid additional hits

[whole idol]

Now you’re just speaking for the sake of sounding smart

[thin mantle]

It’s context dependent, sometimes it’s not an option, my point being that it is survivable if you can keep the teno from repositioning

[tropic horizon]

Bleed just serves as another deterrent it can use to fend off carnivores. I don’t see how it’s an issue that it does a lot of bleed.

[whole idol]

Didn’t you say the reason you’d run away is bc of the tenos high damadge

[thin mantle]

I’ve got no idea what you mean

[whole idol]

Because it already got high damadge?

[keen plover]

I don’t recall saying that?

If the bleed was a non issue then I’d pretty much always suicide into a teno as a Carno. That’s the only reason I avoid tanking too many hits.

[whole idol]

My exact thought reading your comment about teno and omni, tenos do kill omnis if they get stunned but u somehow disagree

[keen plover]

The worry that they’ll trot me down if I keep committing

[thin mantle]

No I said it’s survivable based on context, I don’t know how you wouldn’t got that read off of what I said

[keen plover]

Iirc update 4.5 Carno could tank the bleed with the old modifiers and that’s all I did

I kept fighting until death

[tropic horizon]

Yeah bleed is the main deterrent as you’re almost never gonna die to pure damage against a teno unless you let it do that to you. The bleed is what acts as that 2nd wake-up call after the damage that the fight isn’t worth it and always tenos to not get bursted down by a few dumb carnivores who just tank through the damage.

[whole idol]

What context for example

[keen plover]

^ I’d straight up facetank them as a Carno pair Lol

[thin mantle]

If members of a pack can take focus off the Omni that was stunned to prevent the teno from repositioning to its head to hit it with a kick to kill it

[whole idol]

One tail slam, and then the kick stun + additional kick is gonna scare of any carni

[tropic horizon]

Like they get launched farther than you can reach in time to follow up with another attack or other pack members start latching onto you as you run up to deliver the finishing forcing you to buck them off instead of finishing the stunned raptor

[thin mantle]

Alternatively it can be done if you were hit while the teno was already moving since the knockdown timer isn’t very long, like I’ve been hit by tenos enough times to know there’s some times they can’t even reach you before you stand up, again context heavily dependent

[whole idol]

Okay dude, that all takes place in an split second, the raptors aren’t gonna do much other than attacking

[thin mantle]

Yes and oftentimes that’s enough, since letting two omnis pounce you is fatal

[tropic horizon]

Like I’ve done it several times in raptor packs where one guy gets launched a decent distance away and then I just latch on to force him to not go for the knocked over dude, it’s pretty effective

[thin mantle]

I’ve even done it on teno where I’ll be getting engaged by 2 omnis at once and I can’t finish the first Omni if I hit it because I have to hit the second one before getting pounced

[whole idol]

It isn’t fatal, a raptor could empty it’s stam on a teno and it could still survive. One second isn’t going to be an issue, depending on the terrain that both opponents are in, the teno could shake them off pretty fast

[tropic horizon]

Coordinated play can save your teammates as raptor though tbf randoms aren’t super reliable a lot of the time which is why this is context dependent in the first place

[thin mantle]

Well if you’re repositioning to kill an Omni that’s stunned you aren’t bucking, 2 omnis pouncing you for any period of time is cause for a playstyle adjustment their bleed is something to be taken seriously. If you just let a couple pounce unhindered you’re probably not surviving the hunt even if you take that one Omni down with you

[hasty coyote]

It should be scary, but if you have gotten an advantage beforehand, then it may be worth the risk pursuing. Because getting hit by a cera charged bite or a carno charge does practically the same amount of damage and bleed to teno, but the teno has almost no option to run. And if you're omni, you should know the risk of fighting a larger target.

Generally the way I see it, the predators should always have to outplay the prey, because the prey don't have the option to not fight.

[thin mantle]

I just spent to longest time trying to figure out what your pfp is lol

[tropic horizon]

Yeah if the prey of an given predator can’t escape the predator it should be able to fight back pretty effectively

[whole idol]

The repositioning takes 2 seconds usually and don’t forget that raptors also have to be in the right position, they can’t pounce from any angle so when you are repositioning yourself the raptors have to perfectly align with both of your sides and then pounce. Also you could shake them off using a tree, the bleed won’t even go below 85

[hasty coyote]

2 omni pounces on teno does about as much bleed as the 2 kicks from teno onto carno. So either both are a non-issue or both are an issue.

[hasty coyote]

Its the best dino, minmi. But with a tophat and pipe

[hidden kettle]

Well in teno i gotta say as a cerato I AM their Prey on Hordetest atm xD
Cant even Run from These terminators 😄

[thin mantle]

If the repositioning takes 2 seconds then the Omni has already stood back up and started running, stuns are that short. Omnis can also pounce from behind now, which for some creatures I think is unfortunate cuz I enjoyed Omni being kinda difficult to play.

[whole idol]

For how long do they pounce tho

[thin mantle]

I figured it out eventually I just had to look through the clown border lol
A truly distinguished gentlemen

[whole idol]

I was going off the repositioning time by comparing it to the stun time. And I think you’re forgetting that the omni who got stunned is behind the teno while the teno itself is kicking it, so if a raptor where to pounce they would accidentally harm their teammate or get blasted in the face by a kick

[whole idol]

Pouncing from behind isn’t an option

[thin mantle]

Or they could just pounce the side angles of the teno as to not feed themselves to the tenos kicks.

[hasty coyote]

that really depends on the environment. Generally if you're landing a pounce to begin with, you're likely not 2 inches from a tree (and if you're pouncing 2 inches from a tree then thats your mistake). So if the teno is out in the open, its likely tanking a LOT of bleed because of how long it takes to buck them off. If you're lreatively close to a tree, then I'd say like a 3-4 second pounce if the teno is kill-confirming the omni. Which is enough to deal a substantial amount of bleed with 2 omnis.

[whole idol]

Then why did you bring up the whole “pounce from the back” point?

[hasty coyote]

it is now, at least on horde test

[thin mantle]

Because you claimed that isn’t possible, which is simply not true, it’s been added in the hordetest which is the most up to date version of the game

[whole idol]

No since it usually takes a couple of seconds to get into an perfect angle/position

[thin mantle]

Then that’s the fault of the omnis for being out of position

They should have had the position to begin with, just outside of tail slam range strafing around its flanks

[hasty coyote]

then that sounds like you need to have better positioning and accuracy to land your pounces quickly. Which is understandable since its finnicky and hard to learn (without dying 10 times).

[whole idol]

I never claimed backpouncing isn’t possible, I claimed that side pounces takes a bit of effort when getting into it and back pounces is a gamble with you 99% of the time losing

[thin mantle]

I wouldn’t say it’s hard to learn and moreso that the ability is incredibly inconsistent. When it functions as intended it’s one of the games most forgiving abilities to use

[thin mantle]

You literally said back pouncing isn’t an option, it is you just have to not get hit and not hit your packmates, these are all possible to do

[whole idol]

They should have already been in a position against a moving target that’s repositioning itself? Legit what

[hasty coyote]

not hard to learn on paper, but hard to do in the heat of combat while the opponent is constantly moving. I know last time I played troodon I missed like 7 pounces, then landed a face pounce and died lol

[thin mantle]

Yes they’re much faster and more nimble than it, this is easy to do

[hidden kettle]

Well pounce from behind IS actually a good Addition and works pretty well. Overall i think getting down a teno became way easier on hordetest now. If you dont get These Buggy pounces which more or less lead to your dinograve 😄 someday .. pounce wont Bug or get canceld to some wierd stuff 😄

[thin mantle]

Ahh gotcha

[whole idol]

It isn’t very possible tho and you can’t use something that got 1% of chance in succeeding

[thin mantle]

That’s actually my issue, I already considered teno a relatively easy target since attack cooldowns were added, this kinda just makes their fights awkward

[thin mantle]

Why does it only have a 1% chance if success, if anything it has an overwhelmingly favorable chance of success because the teno isn’t focused on the omnis countering the combo from the teno, it’s a borderline free pounce

[hidden kettle]

Well Not gonna lie but i feel so confident to 2v1 a teno as raptor.
As a cera i know im dead as soon as IT Sees me for some reason xD

Well but cera aint a Hunter tho 😄

[thin mantle]

Might be a skill set translation issue
Fighting teno on Cera is WAY different than fighting teno on Omni. It’s doable but it’s definitely different. And definitely harder

[whole idol]

It isn’t, tenos spins around when stunning a target to come close to them that throws off the raptors entire position and they have to start repositioning while it’s kicking the stunned target and starting to move from it

[thin mantle]

Dealing with scenarios like this is essentially omnis skill floor for large game hunting, this isn’t unique to teno, and I don’t find it particularly challenging

[hidden kettle]

It really is 😄
Got my B kicked so many Times If i get to a 1v1 teno ( even smaller than me) and im haveing way more issues on that since Hordetest and i really dont know why 😄

[whole idol]

Because it’s kicking a teammate right infront of their ambush position, which would result in the raptors accidentally pouncing their packmate or two, the raptors getting kicked mid pounce

Anyways gotta go it’s 4am for me

[tropic horizon]

Have a nice rest man

[whole idol]

Thanks even tho I’ll get 2 hours of sleep😭

[thin mantle]

Sleep well!

[hidden kettle]

Dang i can feel ya on my early Shift 😄
Have a good night then! Dont dream of dilos they are nightmares 😄

[thin mantle]

Yeah it can be tricky at times. Definitely worth the practice in an admin server if you wanna get good at it

[tropic horizon]

I think I made my own personal tier list for tenos matchups one time if anyone is interested to check it out I’ll drop it here but this is just my own experience

Basically your easiest matchups are against carno and the lil guys and the more even ones are against packs of raptors and cerato

[hidden kettle]

Ye it really is but i wanna get my experiences on officials and im fine with die a Lot as Juve/sub/adult a Lot by that .. it makes it what it is and you cant really Count on being fg all time for Combat.
Its Not even that i wanna Fight tenos.. why should i my strengt is in eating whats around and steal meals from other carnis. Thats what Sarah more or less is about. Even If i would be THE cerato Player .. able to 1v1 a stego.. it wouldnt be as thrilling and fun as takeing the dead teno from two carnos or (even better) a raptor Pack that finally achived this glorious goal.

[thin mantle]

You're like the perfect cerato main xD

You seem to embody it's core values

[tropic horizon]

That’s sorta my mentality when playing cerato, just be an absolute nuisance to everyone and avoid most conflict unless I know I have an advantage

[thin mantle]

If you've got it on hand I'd be interested in it

[tropic horizon]

I need to remake it the more I look at it, it’s pretty bad

[thin mantle]

oh no xD

[hidden kettle]

A very offensive teno is what i dont wanna Fight tbh 😄
Call it Skill issues If you want but imo thats the Most Dangerous thing to me 😄
A Defensive teno that dont wanna Pick Up a Fight ..ok.. make it puke a Bit and then get whats left stamless defenseless teno... But against very aggressive ones .. im kinda dead before it can puke xD

[hidden kettle]

Welp thanks a Lot to that 😄
And i got called out to be far from that and Insert a Lot of mean words to think its only a Canni due to scavange 😄

[thin mantle]

In it's actual matchups I'd probably order it as (if the server is behaving normally)
1: Omni
2: Cerato
3: Pachy
4: Dilo
5: Troodon
6: Carno

I think that's all it's relevant matchups

[hidden kettle]

Would be very interesting tbh 🙂

[thin mantle]

Dilo is basically just "do I have the right terrain for this" cuz if not its just hallucination spam till you die

[thin mantle]

oh thats bizarre considering cerato is literally a cannibal by design, but people are strange

[thin mantle]

This also changes if we're assuming they come in numbers or not

[hidden kettle]

Its kinda sad other Herbies need to be in this man 😄

[hidden kettle]

On fighting over food okay but Overall i feel cannibalism isnt right at all since you can get all your diets even from non diets via Organs .

[thin mantle]

I'm fine with it, what you eat won't stop you from having to engage any particular thing from time to time, plus ideally herbis would actually compete for food, but food spawns would have to be expectable and consistently in the same places in tighter quantities for that to take place

[thin mantle]

I also have ptsd from when pachy was the single worst thing to fight as a teno for like 5 updates straight

[hidden kettle]

Ohh the dilo 😄
Aint that strong (Called out to be OP a Lot) at all imo. A very good one okay could solo a stego after some hours by wasteing its stam but AS a cerato thats kinda food which doesnt know alt bite movement xD

[tropic horizon]

Alright I don’t have the tier list maker but here are all my relevant matchups ranked:
Easiest matchup is against carno. You just demolish them with better bleed damage and stamina.

Dilo and Omni I feel are fairly similar in danger. They can be easy kills or your worst enemies depending on your skill and environment.

Cerato is probably your most even fight in the game and my favorite fight as well. It’s just a back and forth dance of who can leverage their advantage over the other and thus it’s very skill dependent.

As for the others…. You pretty much annihilate 90% of the roster or can just escape from them if need be. Only exception is groups of pachies as they absolutely blend teno to death with their fractures.

[hidden kettle]

I would be fine with Herbies to grow pretty peacefully with plenty of good n stuff .. Just saying.. Sure thats a Carni opinion who likes its Steaks big n tastey 😄

[thin mantle]

my main issue with it is that venom allows dilo to get a rediculous amount of value off of incredibly minimal effort, it's not broken over powered in the sense that it's consistently successful and nothing can stop it, hallucinations just don't require active engagement to find success in once they're active. It's moreso a design issue on it's part

[thin mantle]

I'd 100% put omni over dilo due to accessibility but otherwise fair enough.

Cerato is a really good fight but my favorite matchup in the entire game is teno v teno

It is....WAY too fun if you've never had a serious teno 1v1

[hidden kettle]

Oh booii the bonkers.. got bullied by 3 of them this Weekend ngl 😄
That head fracture at night ... Was a Wonder i got to bite any of em xD

[tropic horizon]

Teno vs Teno is ironically one of my least favorite fights in the game because of how, inconsistent the stuns and hitboxes are. If the game wasn’t so bug ridden I’d absolutely love it but I’ve had so many times where I got stunned from a tip of the tail shot or ended up killing a guy in like two combos with broken hitboxes of my own.

[thin mantle]

I never find it buggy or inconsistent when I'm on a private server, in officials or higher pop ones sure but I haven't noticed it. Maybe something's changed especially recently to make it more frustrating

[thin mantle]

Update 4-6 pachy was nightmare fuel...not only did they apply fractures and do decent damage but their stuns and the nature of their ram hitbox generation gave them registration priority over basically all other attacks, if you were being rammed by a pachy there wasn't a thing on teno you could do to stop it

[hidden kettle]

Bruh i HATE getting a tail Hit to the Tip of the tail and Just get knocked down xD
Hitreg aint a big friend of mine id say 😄

But hey thats how Client Server works .. it Like Bite a tail and get Body damage so Overall its even i guess <.

[hasty coyote]

(This is why I really think fractures shoudn't disable attacks)

[hidden kettle]

It still is a annoying Thing 😄
Fracture and Take the Option to Walk is one Thing .. to bonk ya into Atoms another 😄

[hidden kettle]

To a certain Point yes.

[thin mantle]

Oh I agree

It's still no fun it's just...less awful

[hidden kettle]

Should be more or less the consequenses Like Not able to Run = No Charge for Carno than the straight disableing

[hidden kettle]

Its Like die to a Deino .. its not that thrilling "oohhhhhj holy S-diet" Moment .. its more a .. meh okay .. Moment you cant do Something about it.. 😄

[hasty coyote]

Personally, they shouldn't flat out disable most attacks, especially alt attacks. I can see jumping attacks and maybe kicks being disabled by leg fracture, but alt attacks and stuff like tail slam should never be disabled by a fracture. Mainly because theres no point in doing that other than allowing pachies to just pummel larger targets without them being able to fight back. And since the larger targets can fight back and the smaller targets are stronger against pachy, you can buff its damage so that it can deal with them easier.

[hidden kettle]

Ye true man.

[thin mantle]

mhm

[hasty coyote]

Like if they nerfed knockdowns because "not being able to move is bad" then why do fractures still disable special attacks since they literally prevent you from attacking?

[hidden kettle]

Well If the pachy would get hurt similar or gets a big downside of useing it aginst way bigger Targets IT would be fine and the Defensive ability to imobilize and RUN. To .. you know .. stay alive against a Huntet Like a Carno being 3x your size 😄
Not bonk IT to the moon 😄

Just sayin.. BUT... Headbutting a target that Size difference .. does Not Look Like a good Idea to me.. 😄

[inner geode]

are elite fish? any knows?

[leaden remnant]

id like to add that a 6 second double pounce is death

there is no getting out of there

you start bleeding 0.5% per second and sometimes even 1%

bleed goes on for 90 seconds iirc, enough to put you either horribly low or kill you

considering that raptors don't just pounce the heck out of someone and do nothing, you're dead

[leaden remnant]

tbf dilo doesnt have a chance against cera

cera is more agile has more health and does way more damage

and let's be real the average dilo player is spam 1 call and be unable to kill an afk carno sitting in the open (horribly big skill issue)

but a very good dilo player kills anything it wants to

it has the speed the stamina the ability to blind you and deal damage to you remotely 🤷‍♂️

also removes your scent which is a great orientation tool so you dont know where you goin

i'd say that what people find ridiculous about it is the, ofc, venom, that takes just no skill, and its speed

buuut yeah cera just invalidates all of them with its charge bite alt bite and regular bite 👍

[hidden kettle]

ye in the right hands dilo is a strong hunter and yes the venom is a bit of a nobrainer especially at night 😄
but still i wouldnt say dilo is over-/underpowerd to me its pretty well balanced haveing lots of stam and speed/moveability with fast bites but less dmg tho.
venom could see a lil touch but overall i feel pretty fine with it as it is.
would be bothered more by herrera jump than dilo venom tbh 😄

[leaden remnant]

thing is, it's fast as heck

so it can just run in without fearing any consequence

has a crap ton of stamina, its attacks dont even use stamina, so it can easily just run away from any and all confrontations

and if something attacks it, spam head bites and run

it's busted in the sense of just not giving a crap about anything

anything other than a carno is just not a concern, literally just... run

and if it's a carno, spam bite and run away while dealing remote damage to scare it off 👍

[hidden kettle]

would just stay pretty much in position and alt bite for it.. speaking as cerato.. works pretty well most times since if it can bite you.. you can bite it too aint growing a long neck or something while passing by 😄
as far as i experienced they are no real thread to a cerato. Raptor can bleed it out pretty quick and since they mostly come in groups its not a good dilo target anyways.
And bitefore of a dilo is far from destructive for most big and midsize dinos imo `:D
so ye im fine with dilo as it is now 😄

[leaden remnant]

#balance-feedback message yes

it is absolutely nonsense how a juvie raptor can bleed a fg stego out and ppl just spam them

[hidden kettle]

ye problem is peeps can just spawn in and try to apply bleed by wasteing all stam in. Not much of a bleed but still keeps bleeding tho. i mean throwing numbers is kinda a raptor thing but may let em learn the pounce after a bit like 25% growth or something could help. like dilo has to wait ages for its ability so why not let the raptor grow its claws 😄

[leaden remnant]

yus

[dusky surge]

i love my man Jurassic Tyrant who I have only seen downvote any and all carnivore nerfs

[tropic horizon]

“Im not carnivore biased”

[daring halo]

I have a problem with my night vision as deino. The night vision is turned on but under the water I can barely see around my crocodile . Does anybody know what's causing that.

[frail bobcat]

@floral aspen why tho?

[floral aspen]

the fact that one hit and your leg is broken is way too OP especially with all the desync the game has

[frail bobcat]

so what do you suggest?

[floral aspen]

decrease the chance of leg breaks

[frail bobcat]

making things RNG is always fun

[unborn iris]

Give all breaks different levels. Current leg break should be as bad as it gets but it shouldn't just start out there. Maybe 10% slower per level or something. 1 break and the fastest dino in the game wouldn't chase you down as easily.

[floral aspen]

Another point is the hitbox for their BONK seems impossible to dodge but maybe thats just a skill issue on my end

[unborn iris]

Not skill issue.. almost everytime I've been hit by a pachy for quite a few builds it's like they just teleport to you on your screen.

So it looks really weird. Just know on their screen they are landing it.

[floral aspen]

yeah kind of like the dilo venom just use that logic with the fractures?

[unborn iris]

In fact, be on any kind of hill and they will struggle hard.. that's kind of your best chance against a pachy. Even a small hill

[dusky surge]

there is no chance

its not a chance system

[unborn iris]

And turn your tail towards the pachy, it bugs the bonk out more often than not.

[leaden remnant]

depends on what dino you are, but usually yes it is too buggy to dodge it

[hidden kettle]

oohh booi the bonkers 😄
i guess most time its just a simple hitreg issue like getting bonky on the body and leave with a headfracture .. but hey thats how client style servers work .. one got the hit. count. sometimes we just get the L 😄

[daring spindle]

@bright oasis one critique, you said that beipi is the only thing that has to swallow meat to eat it, which is false as it ignores galli

[bright oasis]

oh thats true, guess my entire suggestion shall be tossed in the trash due to one mistake. oh well, better luck next time right

[daring spindle]

[bright oasis]

galli should also be able to eat bites from non plant food.

feedback post saved

[daring spindle]

I agree

[past sail]

<.<

[coarse blaze]

A pachy teleporting at you mid ram is the same issue as teno hitting you with it's tail from a mile away or an omni jumping no-where near you and appearing on your flank; it's not the fault of the playable.

[cedar beacon]

Did Deinos stam changed? in HT

[leaden remnant]

yea deino got a big nerf

[dusky surge]

not its stam tho

[leaden remnant]

pretty sure it did

legit playing deino rn and this thing has no stamina

[dusky surge]

basically always how deino has been

[leaden remnant]

way less stamina i mean

i aint even big and i already have fg stamina basically

[coarse blaze]

On land right? Same with the thirst drain?

[cedar beacon]

Can i out stam a adult? as almost adult like 80-90% ?

[dusky surge]

yea

only by a small fraction though

you also can outrun them on land iirc

[leaden remnant]

yes

[cedar beacon]

Ok

[leaden remnant]

like hell i practically cant even sprint rn

and the thirst drain...

[dusky surge]

it is a primarily aquatic creature tbf

[leaden remnant]

yes

[dusky surge]

(frankly, it needs all the downsides it can get, given its upsides)

[coarse blaze]

I feel like a deino 80%-90% it's not worth trying to outrun an adult on land, they'll likely tail bite you to death if you don't have a pretty good head-start.

[leaden remnant]

it's literally just a death sentence

the stamina difference is minimal, practically zero

[coarse blaze]

There's not a lot you can do if you encounter an adult at late-stage sub, you just have to hope you don't or try and swim away, praying they don't have enough stamina to catch you.

Same goes for a late sub-adult cera vs an adult cera, they're about the same speed/stam but you just have to hope they don't try and hunt you really if you're not confident you can escape. Deino is just worse.

Or you could try and fight I guess, you do less DMG but they could always miss somehow and bite bad places.

[cedar beacon]

OK i thought that who killed me had stam hack.

[coarse blaze]

I don't think it's likely, you're about the same as them but it's a lesson. When you're that big going onto land to avoid another big deino ain't it.

[dusky surge]

deino should constantly preserve stam, mainly for cannibals, but also because it is a low-stam, long-regen creature

[coarse blaze]

I admit it's much harder to figure out a way to help mix-packs than I thought, I got tired of seeing the "stress debuff" and attempted to think of something else. Something that can't be griefed more so.

[gray barn]

#balance-feedback message isnt this already in the game ?

[stark knoll]

I'd reread the first sentence

[coarse blaze]

"Rather than using the same icon for large groups/mix-packs possibly re-color or add another icon to indicate mix-packs specifically."

[gray barn]

ah okay, sound cool

[final coral]

Idk if it’s been talked about yet but how about that stego health pool, or the deino vs stego balance. A full grown stego confidence in just sitting in a pond or aggressively going after a deino player is getting borderline toxic. There’s absolutely no effort to balance and I feel like one of the devs really has a love for the stego and hatred for the deino. Is this true devs

[frail bobcat]

stegos can be grabbed while swimming now

[golden coral]

Considering A, deino can now grab a swimming stego and drown it, B, overall deino is still very powerful, and on top of that have been the better option overall for very long and C, stego is rather badly designed and not all that good at being a stego, I would be inclined to say that deino would be the favoured one over stego

[final coral]

We can not grab a full grown stego

[golden coral]

Emphasis on "swimming" stego

[frail bobcat]

hordetest

[final coral]

1v1 stego vs deino a stego will win every time

[golden coral]

At least you're suppoed to be able to, in the hordetest at least

[final coral]

I’m on official, What’s relevant

[frail bobcat]

on land

[golden coral]

Hordetest would be where the latest balance is though, so

[frail bobcat]

the things that are on hordetest because those WILL come to live branch

[final coral]

Even in water

[frail bobcat]

because its not swimming

[golden coral]

Again, on hordetest, you can grab a swimming stego, no matter how grown it is, if you're at least fully grown

[final coral]

Stego hits 3- 4 times crocs dead, how many bites from a croc?

[frail bobcat]

its not 3 times

[golden coral]

So, if it insists on going too far out into the water, all it takes is one good lunge and away goes the stego

[final coral]

Not all ponds are deep enough to drown a stego

[golden coral]

You're comparing vastly different functions, compare it with the lunge if you want to compare killing potential

Why are you, as an adult deino, in a tiny pond

[final coral]

Lots of traffic from everything but other deinos

[golden coral]

At the risk of stegos, apparently

[final coral]

So good spot to potentially nest

[frail bobcat]

if they pond isnt deep enough to drown enough, its too tiny for adult deinos to exist

[golden coral]

Guess that's a tradeoff

[final coral]

Only because of the unbalance, thank you

[golden coral]

No, because it's quite balanced, you just don't seem to understand that there are going to be risks at times

You want to live in a limited area/pond, then you take the risks of bigger things catching you

[final coral]

1 stego solo should not have the COMPLETE upper hand over a croc

[golden coral]

It should if it's on land

[final coral]

There’s no balance, not in game, not in the stats , prove it with video, fight a stego and win on official and I’ll shut my mouth

[golden coral]

Honestly, I'm not even sure if there is any pond that's both large enough for a deino to thrive in, but shallow enough to not drown a stego. Would have to go check on that one to be sure

[final coral]

1 stego can take out 2 crocs

[golden coral]

Yes, there's balance. I understand that I'm not going to fight a stego as deino, that's all

Because there's going to be other big things that will also cause you trouble, imagine if a rex came along, it'd go "oh look, big fish in little pond"

[final coral]

I’ve been living in that pond for weeks, got to 80% twice and died both times to a stego that KNOWS it will win because it KNOWS it’s unbalanced

[golden coral]

You deliberately put yourself in a pond with no way out, knowing there are going to be risks of being caught by something that can fight you

[final coral]

No no no don’t side step, 1v1 stego vs croc, 10 fights, how many times do you think a stego will win

[golden coral]

I don't know what else you want me to say here, you can on hordetest, grab and drown even adult stegos, thats plenty good. And that's just a stego, there'll be worse things

[golden coral]

Most of the time, as it should

You somehow seem to think you're supposed to 1v1 a stego when it's not swimming, which no, no I don't think you should

[final coral]

The ONLY risk is an over powered stego created by the devs. Not even realistic

[golden coral]

Stego is quite underpowered if anything ,but you know, if you think stego is overpowered, what do you think rex or spino will be?

Spino will come along, go into the pond after you, and you'll die, faster than you would vs a stego most likely

[final coral]

No I leave them alone, I don’t even go after them, but they will spend an hour trying to kill Me because they know they can without risk

[golden coral]

And unlike stego, spino can actually go in there after you

[final coral]

Stegos one thing to be afraid of is falling at night,

[golden coral]

Because you put yourself in a pond with no way out, and didn't stop to think about it. But unless you're in such a tiny pond that the stego can reach all across it, you could always get air, then dive and log, unless they changed how long deino oxygen lasts for

[final coral]

I’ve seen stegos go into lakes fighting crocs bro wdym lol do you play anything?

[golden coral]

Most things can hunt stego far better than they can hunt a deino, troodons can, raptors can, tenos can, dilos can, ceras can, even carnos can at times

[leaden remnant]

well you aint supposed to win that fight

[final coral]

Y’all aren’t even bringing any examples to back up what you say, I’ve got hours of experience to back this up

[final coral]

Ever?

[golden coral]

Stego can't actually go into the water anymore, the moment it starts swimming, you can grab it

[leaden remnant]

the game is absolutely not balanced, indeed

[golden coral]

Meanwhile, a spino will... swim after you

[leaden remnant]

that is what makes the isle, well... the isle

[golden coral]

If you think stegos are the biggest, or going to be, the biggest threat, then you're in for a rude surprise

[final coral]

We’re still talking about official servers, what’s actually running

[golden coral]

It is, just not in a 1v1 fight, but 1v1 survive

[leaden remnant]

just wait some days to be able to grab em while swimming

[final coral]

Think? I’m not new to the game

[golden coral]

But this is a matter of putting yourself in a bad spot, and then complaining

[leaden remnant]

talking generally

[leaden remnant]

on officials

[golden coral]

Considering your decision to put yourself in a risky pond, I don't know

[final coral]

It’s a great spot, you should try it before putting in your opinion, the only thing bad is the stego unbalance

[golden coral]

This is like the old "pond" way back

[golden coral]

If you end up dying to stegos, because you have no way out, then its not a good spot

[leaden remnant]

well, the fight is not supposed to be a deino win...

[golden coral]

It still is balanced, more or less. The issue here is basically sitting in a small pond with no way out, and then complaining that they get caught by a stego

[leaden remnant]

stego is not unbalanced, it's just a fight that you were never supposed to win

[final coral]

It’s right next to a sanctuary, always in a migration zone, between a spawn point and a hot spot, and far enough away from deino spawn to not worry about cannibals. So please explain aside from stego being over powered, how exactly is it a bad spot????

[golden coral]

Precisely because it's small, and thus, you have no escape

Which means, the moment something large enough to fight you, stego or otherwise, comes along, you die

[final coral]

Explain why?

[leaden remnant]

i don't need to

[golden coral]

And again, if you think stego is overpowered, what will you do when rex or spino comes along?

[leaden remnant]

it's just not supposed to be a deino win

if that's not enough, nothing will be

[golden coral]

Do you think the rex is going to ignore all the food you provide? And it will be able to stand taller than stego anyway, so if you can't drown a stego, then you probably can not drown a rex, most likely not even grab it if it's shallow enough for it to never start swimming

[final coral]

Don’t need to escape if a stego was balanced and questioned it’s this worth the risk to fight this croc for no reason. Are you just trolling this conversation or are you going to put some valuable input?

[golden coral]

You know the risks, if you think the spot is good, then the risk might be worth it, but there is a risk

[golden coral]

Stego is balanced, its underpowered. You should have to escape, or worry about that, simple as that really

[final coral]

You keep talking about risk but don’t mention a single stego risk?

[golden coral]

You're entirely focused on stego, completely ignoring any other examples

[final coral]

Proof or example?

[leaden remnant]

was it worth the risk fighting the stego tho

[golden coral]

No, because stego, nor spino, nor rex, need to worry about a deino in that position

If a stego is swimming across a river, and a deino comes along, it dies, in hordetest. So might rex, so might most things aside from cheirus and spino

[final coral]

Your providing none just talking crap about a spot that you’ve probably never even seen before or spent any time at

[golden coral]

I actually think I know the spot quite well, there's at least two ponds that I've visited so

[final coral]

I can avoid the stego for hours or fight it,

[leaden remnant]

which pond was it

[golden coral]

But you're entirely ignoring the point of you being in a spot where you can be caught

[final coral]

I’ve been to every single pond on that map as a deino

[golden coral]

And instead of taking that risk into account, you're just asking for stego to be even weaker. And ignoring that stego isn't even the strongest thing you'll face

[final coral]

Any spot you go to a stego will go out of its way to kill a croc

[golden coral]

Sure, let's nerf stego so it cant fight you, and then what, when rex comes in?