general-feedback-discussion

[thick summit]

Hypsi and dryo are unfinished

They need their core mechanics to stand out

[woeful latch]

make herrera better climber and make it worse on land and it’s going to be amazing

[woven bane]

ye

[thick summit]

Herrera is balanced

But being just a tiny bit slower than omni is a bit odd

[modest dock]

Herrera being already the best arboreal animal (and the only one), with an high survivability rate, it doesn't need to become even better, thats my point (yet) , that will certainly change in the future

[woeful latch]

it is, but i would want it to take less stamina jumping from tree to tree, increase its mobility.

and nerf its speed to 43

[thick summit]

That's the same as saying pteranodon is the best aerial animal

😭

[woven bane]

yea but letting it regain is more of a QOL not a direct buff to its survival capability

[thick summit]

Also the devs said quetz will he a nightmare for herreras

I'm quite curious how they'll implement quetz

[woeful latch]

i wonder how, like it’s genuinely hard to actually do something to herreras even as a ptera and i don’t expect quetz to have better agility

i would probably hit the tree and fall down instead of hitting that herrera lol

[modest dock]

well, isn't it true ? (But i agree pteranodon stam used to suck a lot)

[thick summit]

Pteranodon can fly for 15 minutes 😭

[woeful latch]

ptera stam is amazing if you know how to do stuff right

it’s very bad at flying up tho, but it got fixed with thermals

[thick summit]

It can probably snatch them out of a tree or something

[woven bane]

ptera can actually fly across the whole map

[modest dock]

rly ? I need to try ptera asap, i didn't played him for a year or so

[woeful latch]

now you won’t need to waste 80% of your stamina flying from north access to highlands xd

[woven bane]

if you ascend slowly it dosen’t take much

[thick summit]

You just have to manage your stam

[woeful latch]

i guess it will take 0 stam to get from north access to highlands with the thermals and that will help a lot

[modest dock]

last time i played ptera i just take off the ground and half my stam was gone

[thick summit]

Cheesy

[woeful latch]

me

[desert arch]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[thick summit]

Quetz will most likely get a grab

[woeful latch]

that’s a possibility

[thick summit]

And it will most likely suck against anything larger it can grab

[woeful latch]

good

[thick summit]

Carnotaurus the small game hunter vs quetz the other small game hunter

[woeful latch]

let’s be real, maia is the real small game hunter 🔥🔥🔥

[thick summit]

Quetz should at most weigh 500kg

[desert arch]

More like maia the small game hunted

[modest dock]

then I decided to never play it in a while, and i did it because if i remember diablo wasn't even out yet and now trike is out, or almost

[thick summit]

500kg seems fair

[woeful latch]

LMAOOO

[woeful latch]

well not after the kick buff tbh

[modest dock]

Guys lets be real for a moment, Dryo need to shine

[woeful latch]

dryo is too op

[desert arch]

Like genuinely, every time I see a maia, unless its in a massive mixherd, it just gets melted and dies

[thick summit]

Omnis couldn't pin it and it wouldn't be a flying rex

[desert arch]

@vivid mason u shouldnt let that slide bro

[woeful latch]

maia+teno mixherd is very funny

[desert arch]

Like today I solod a fg maia as a single omni like bro 😭

[modest dock]

No but really Dryo is out since evrima came out and it has never been finished

[vivid mason]

YOURE op

[woeful latch]

AHAHAHAHAAH

[thick summit]

Anyway

Nerf troodon

[woeful latch]

#nerfdryo

[desert arch]

Maia still has points of its body it just simply cannot defend, its shoulders and tail are literally free dmg points

[woeful latch]

i can’t recover after you killing my 300kg teno with your dryo

i’m traumatized

[desert arch]

Im gonna kick a juvi dibble

Really hard

[thick summit]

As a troodon? Good luck

Cause juvi dibbles can maul troodon packs

[desert arch]

80dmg at stage 3 because it got nerfed in HT woo yeahh woo

[woeful latch]

i wouldn’t really say that honestly and maia can run away from anything that is not dilo or carno and even if it can’t outrun it easily outswims both of those

[desert arch]

https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237

[desert arch]

You see, dilo can 1 cycle maia with venom lmao

[vivid mason]

LOL

[woeful latch]

oh. i forgor about that amazing mechanic

can’t wait for fg rex to die to 4 dilos biting it once and sending 50 thousand clones every second

[desert arch]

Also sub omnis exist so...
And 99% of packs have at least 1 sub that can keep up with a maia

[woeful latch]

fair

maia bus

[desert arch]

Like I genuinely have an easier time pushing mid tiers around that bullying what Im supposed to

[thick summit]

Guys

I am so sorry

I...I can't believe I'm saying this but

I've been enjoying solo omni a lot recently...

😔

[atomic juniper]

Anyone know why whenver I log on my graphic settings always change

[thick summit]

Most skilled omni player

[desert arch]

@vivid mason 😭

[woven bane]

ai omni

[desert arch]

Can we make omni ai and velo playable

It would be so much better for the game trust

[vivid mason]

I WAS STILL LEARNING OKAY

[thick summit]

YOU COULD'VE TURNED BEHIND THE CARNO

But you ran into its charge 😭

I've omnis running from my Carno in a straight line

[woeful latch]

told you, it’s amazing

[thick summit]

You didn't tell me

[woeful latch]

oh maybe that was someone else lmao

[thick summit]

I just decided to play solo omni

I've better fights solo than with a pack

[woeful latch]

#general-feedback-discussion message nvm that was you

[vivid mason]

OH TEAH WELL ITS NOT AS BAD AS THIS ATLEAST

[thick summit]

Because my pack mates usually pounce me and get both of us killed

[thick summit]

Oh that

[woeful latch]

“omni sucks solo”😭😭😭😭

say that to everything under 450kg😭😭😭

[vivid mason]

Omni only works solo bc of RMB 😭

[woeful latch]

yes lol

funny button that allo will probably have as well

[thick summit]

WHY DID HE JUMP LIKE THAT

[vivid mason]

LOL

[thick summit]

1k damage pounce

[woeful latch]

panic

[thick summit]

Carno is genuinely peak but I still want update 5 Carno with some tweaks

[thick summit]

But how...if I panic I usually just run away

[woeful latch]

well that omni decided to become a kangaroo

[thick summit]

If I were the Carno I'd have laughed my lungs out

[woeful latch]

lmao same

[heady geode]

@mint sonnet you should add onto that suggestion the removal of tactile endurance, another core strategy gone, because instead of draining stamina baiting shots and using pounces as troo/raptor, herbivores just endlessly have full stam to alt/power attack with, gastro and tactile must die

[mint sonnet]

ohh yeah
Ive had no experience with that one so i couldnt say myself
that does sound unfun tho lol

[past crystal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1348473917039448115
@narrow field this is actually an incredibly good idea and would solve all the food issues

makes absolutely no sense that a stegosaurus, with its tiny little face, can down an entire tree in 1 second or less

and instead of having to constantly rework and balance plant values, they can just set it to one and be done

[narrow field]

Thanks! It makes sense cause if you up plant values for the apex then smaller dinos can live infinitely off of it, which isn't balanced at all, and it def isn't working the way it is now xD

[past crystal]

for sure

i have a 70% trike and every plant it eats is gone in .2 of a second, and also fills as much hunger as an orange does on all the other species. crazy

[narrow field]

Literal insanity, respectfully 😭😭🙏🏻

Honestly the food situation is why I haven't enjoyed herbivore gameplay for the entire time evrima has been a thing
I only recently started playing galli more cause they can get plenty of diet even at fg

[limber hull]

#general-feedback message

i adore how he still threw in a complaint about dilo's speed at the very end man can never let it go

[pliant elm]

dilo with photo/nocturnal being able to outrun a Carno is really stupid

[limber hull]

yea and that's a mutation issue

its not dilo's fault bad mutations exist lol

[white elm]

[thick summit]

Carno is waaaaay faster when charging

[normal shuttle]

#general-feedback message next thing is letting them drink on trees

[white elm]

#general-feedback message you're out of line, but right

bucking desperately needs to be reworked

[ancient kestrel]

By the way I notice that people very rare use tap pounce on the raptor and only stick to the prey as long as possible? Like why bleed pounce is rare performed?

[normal shuttle]

Because bleed is underrated

And also because most stuff is bleed resistant save for carno

Which you can admittedly dunk on so hard with a bleed pounce

[white elm]

carno allegedly has its bleed vulnerability removed on ht

[normal shuttle]

I know and tried it

Luckily they changed that, but yeah it’s also that the community at large just underrates bleed

It’s a huge debuff if you get someone below 40-50% blood

You’ve basically won at that point when you handicap their stamina and health regen

[ancient kestrel]

What exactly this debuff do?

[normal shuttle]

Massively slows down stamina and health regen

To the point where if someone is low blood they barely regen any stamina while sitting

[ancient kestrel]

Btw what creatures do the most bleed currently? I know that raptor does above average

[limber hull]

it scales with how much blood you're missing

on 10% bleed you basically just don't regen stam lol

[urban flax]

Technically it's stego
But in proportion to their raw damage output it's omni and beipi

[limber hull]

herrera lol

[ancient kestrel]

Oh yeah. Iguana monster

[urban flax]

Do we know what's the bleed multiplier on herrera pounce ?

[limber hull]

nope. just it hits like a knife nuke

[urban flax]

I know beipi's claw attack is 3x and omni pounce, if it hasn't been changed since last time it was mentioned, should be 3x as well

[normal shuttle]

Raptor, stego, beipi, herra, teno and dilo all qualify as above imo

[hidden mist]

If only Pachy could go out of its miserable pit like the Carno did on Horde…

[ancient kestrel]

Dilo also have a lot of bleed? I thought it's it doesn't in Evrima

[normal shuttle]

Well no

Not dilo

[normal shuttle]

Nowhere as much, but more than carno, troo, cera and deino pound for pound

[hidden mist]

Iirc Cera’s bleed is above average as well? At least I remember that if I got a lot of bites as a Teno back on Spiro, my bleed would dip so much it was not a joke xd Maybe they changed that long time ago, not sure.

[normal shuttle]

Nah it’s more about raw damage

And also you have to consider that when you’re running or trotting blood depletes significantly faster

[hidden mist]

I see, okie. Maybe it’s the sickness that lowered resistance after all…

[normal shuttle]

Doesn’t do that

But out of all, I’d highlight beipi, teno and herra as the relatively speaking best bleeders in each faction

Beipi is obvious since galli no longer deals bleed but still you can kill stuff like herras and omnis with a couple alt bites

Then teno has the kick with bleed and cc, on top of one of the quickest alt attacks if not the quickest in the entire game that deals plenty of bleed alone

And then herra with a single jump can bleed omnis and gallis even if they sit down and they just ran for a few seconds, in case they don’t die with the impact

[woven bane]

iirc stego does more, its bleed is so lethal it threatens even deinos

[normal shuttle]

But in relative terms, a creature being able to complete bleed out stuff 3 times larger than itself in one blow is wild

[woven bane]

eh pretty easy to counter it, just stand still and it can’t do anything

[normal shuttle]

I mean

The same applies to stego more or less

[woven bane]

stego’s can keep pressure

force you to move around

[normal shuttle]

Good herras can as well

[woven bane]

no, they don’t have any ground capabilities. they get close = they die

[normal shuttle]

not really unless it's dilos, omnis, carnos or gallis

they can be annoying running around biting or jumping you with hills and any elevation or going to any vertical surface

[woven bane]

anything from omni sized and up basically

[woven bane]

alt + LMB:

[covert tiger]

@molten atlas bro aside from troodon, Omni is the weakest, incredibly fragile and the highest risk carnivore in the game, and also the only dino who's unique rmb ability is totally counterable and reversible.
I truly don't know what game youre playing

[thick summit]

I agree

[frank tapir]

@grave marsh #general-feedback message do you mean coordinates in the tab menu?

[thick summit]

You shouldn't have to watch your dinosaur die because you're getting stun locked

[gusty flax]

@grave marsh #general-feedback message u already cant choose where to spawn

[normal shuttle]

With a 1 second stunlock immunity many things are still gonna get stunlocked

Like a stego vs an adult trike. Doesn’t have time to escape especially if caught frontally

[thick summit]

I love how trike's trot is faster than stego's trot

[normal shuttle]

I’d argue that even with 5-6 seconds and complete roster, many things would still get stunlocked if caught by a trike, shant, rex…

[placid anchor]

#general-feedback message
The problem is how players perceive this game. The main thing for them is to grow up, and then just fight with everyone they see. The development of the species on the island, as the main goal, is not for anyone here. Do you often connect to other people's nests? But this gives you excellent opportunities to earn more useful mutations. And when you build a nest, these mutations will be passed on to your offspring. And then you can be born in the future from the nest of these improved animals or their offspring, earning even more useful mutations. No one thinks so globally, everyone thinks only about themselves. There is an incentive measure for nesting, it's just that the players did not understand it and do not want to understand it

[urban flax]

@sage hawk Stego takes no damage when hit on its plates
(Which is not realistic btw, irl stego's plates weren't meant for defense, not that it's an issue)

[sage hawk]

Does it? I wasn't aware. 😮
What about Anky? I don't want them to be walking lunchables. 😭

I need armored blueberries.

I wanna be a walking tank. >:D

With a club for a tail.

[urban flax]

There is a 99% chance that anky will have heavy damage reduction on its armor

[sage hawk]

That's gonna be so cool. 🥳

[woven bane]

heavily reduced but ye

[grave marsh]

Okay, but people spawn, open Vulnona Map, copy paste theyr location and go straight to the hot spot

[grave marsh]

yeah

[faint folio]

This would happen even without coordinates, except it would be 100% more frustrating for new players. The reason people go to the hot spots is 2-fold:

1. if you're a carnivore, the AI can be really inconsistent with spawning, especially if you're in an empty part of the map. Plus, AI doesn't reward much food so you almost NEED a high population density to survive.

2. Theres not enough population density on the map. If you avoid hot spots, chances are quite good you'll never see another player. I think a lot of people get bored and go to hot spots because pvp is more engaging than most of the otherwise empty map

Instead of coordinates and vulnona map, experienced players would recognize where they spawned and still go to the hot spots

[gusty flax]

i dont even use the map i can find where the hotspots are

[normal shuttle]

Yeah you just follow the calls and done

[gusty flax]

or just use your memory

[normal shuttle]

Picking ptera the first time and learning the map in an hour

Problem solved. Hotspots exist again

[thick summit]

The reason hotspots exist is because of patrol zones

There were barely any hotspots when herbis were forced to migrate

[covert tiger]

@tight vapor evrima or horderest?
Because they already acknowledged it doesnt work in evrima long ago and it's been fixed in hordetest and future updates.
It'll be easy to get but you'll be marked by albino skin

[indigo gulch]

Patrol zones were meant to be the small spots you could get diet to get to migration zone. Except now, they ARE the migration zone spot and people don’t have to leave for migration zone ever

[thick summit]

Honestly

If patrol zones get abused like that they shouldn't provide food at all

[indigo gulch]

But then they become irrelevant 😅

[thick summit]

PZs aren't fully implemented yet

[mystic parcel]

i absolutely love patrol zones. i hated migration zones because some migrations gave nothing ex:swamp which just a punishment for some herbivores. but i do agree patrol zones need to be worked on, just staying in the same spot, you can wait for the patrol zone to reappear.

[tight vapor]

The problem is that just over a week ago, I managed to unlock this mutation on Evrima, but after that, no matter how many attempts we made, it hasn’t worked again...

[thick summit]

But everyone just hangs out at South plains because of them

Migration zones worked until patrol zones were added

[indigo gulch]

But that just means the values need to get fixed.

[mystic parcel]

thats why it just needs to be fixed. not removed. not everyone hangs out at south. i see herds in highlands, west access even NE

[thick summit]

I never said PZs should get removed

[mystic parcel]

agreed

[thick summit]

I said they shouldn't provide any food

[mystic parcel]

than its a mechanic of no use if no food is provided

[thick summit]

We dunno what the devs have planned for PZs

[grave marsh]

New players wouldn't feel frustrated. Having 200 people on the server and no coordinates would make people use migrations much more often.

In fact, even if you're experienced, you still try to find your place when you spawn in the first few minutes, instead of spawning, pressing tab and saying: "oh, the water is to the south. I'll go straight there and from there I'll go straight to the south river".

And besides, I strongly believe that all of us who now know how to "walk" around the map use a lot of these resources outside of the game. And this reduces the learning curve.

[indigo gulch]

Imma be honest. When the map first dropped me and my friends used those coordinates to meet up just by trying to get closer to it. You don’t need a map, just some coordination

[lucid mauve]

Why do we need patrol zones or the migration zones ? I dont see the benefit over just let people walk where they want.

[normal shuttle]

Water access my beloved

Best patrol no diff

Also I personally like the layout of the area

Although sp is very nice in terms of structure too

[placid anchor]

#general-feedback message
I fully support this. In general, it would be useful to introduce many other things so that players are distributed evenly across the map. Definitely, coordinates need to be removed and spawning by friend's coordinates should be cancelled. The choice of spawn point should not be returned to the game under any circumstances. Rework migration zones so that all animals have DIFFERENT zones, so that they are not in the same places, of course, each such zone must have access to drinking water. Make a debuff to the diet if the animal is looking for food outside its migration zone.

[urban flax]

Why cancel the option to spawn with friends lol

[lucid mauve]

My question why have it? I agree with spawning in togheter at start. But if i die, i shouldt just be with you again 5 sec later. Sorta takes away the survival aspect.

[placid anchor]

Is it really that obvious?

[grave marsh]

I agree with everything, except removing the spawn with friends.
We spend a lot of time killing each other just to spawn near our friend.
New fresh spawn with friends: (OK)
New fresh spawn with a fully grow friend: (not OK)
New fresh spawn usin NESTS: (OK)

[urban flax]

I'm pretty sure the reason they're taking so long to make the spawn codes is precisely to avoid that

[indigo gulch]

Because people want to play with friends? And otherwise it might take an hour?

[urban flax]

They stated you have the code available only for 5 minutes after spawning

[urban flax]

No, it's not obvious at all
That's why I'm asking

[lucid mauve]

Ahh. then i agree. Starting togheter is fine

[lucid mauve]

Yea? The run over, survive. Its a survival game, or get nested in. Starting fresh spawn togheter is fine, but dying and just be with your friend 5 sec later is just strange.

[faint folio]

Except the maps don't have 200 people per server, unless that has changed within the last week or so... And honestly I'm not convinced they could buff it to 200 and still offer a smooth experience. Plus, one of the MOST common new player feedbacks I see in this discord is that they starved over and over and over, that they couldn't find any AI or players for food even after spending their entire stamina running until they starved to death

[indigo gulch]

Why tho? If you wanna play with your friend and you both spawn on the other side of the map, killing yourself is infinitely faster. I’m sorry, it shouldn’t take an hour to get to play with your friend.

[thick summit]

The game is a survival game and not a pvp game

[indigo gulch]

We were talking about that to begin with. Spawn codes implies spawning together

[thick summit]

Heavily encouraging players to traverse the map and actually play the game is a good thing

[indigo gulch]

No one said anything about spawning next to your fg friend

[lucid mauve]

Ahh ok sorry, i tho you mean that. Spawning in to your fg friend

[indigo gulch]

That would be undoing the whole reason they removed spawn locations

[indigo gulch]

HECK no

[thick summit]

Spawn codes only work on fresh spawns

[indigo gulch]

Can you imagine a raptor juvi constantly spawning next to you to keep you bleeding

[lucid mauve]

🤣

[lucid mauve]

exactly, but these places will turn it into a pvp zone ?

[grave marsh]

yeah!! More people would be the key, but the smooth experience depends of good servers.

[thick summit]

Migration zones aren't active hotspots and there are always multiple of them

[urban flax]

@junior nymph Spawning inside a rock

Spawning on the south-east island

Spawning on top of a mountain

Spawning in the middle of plains as a deino

[dawn hound]

guys what was the new troodon nerf?

[placid anchor]

Okay, let me explain: most players sit in the same place - by the southern river. I even meet players less and less often on the delta, not to mention places like the new lake in the east, where players usually kill themselves when they spawn. We have a huge island, but a large area of ​​this island is just dead. Or do you think only you and your friends want to spawn nearby? No, almost every first player wants this and this really breaks the balance of the map. There are almost no players anywhere, this is a problem.

[wooden agate]

#general-feedback message

unrelated but that's the prettiest misspelling of area i've ever seen

could totally see Erya being a name or something in AGOT

[woeful latch]

damage and juvie sprint speed

[dawn hound]

like if it wasnt too low already-

[grave marsh]

Say no more. So sad. 😦 I'm main troodon.

[urban flax]

Hotspots exist without spawn codes. What makes you think they're even related ?

[placid anchor]

Personal observation

[urban flax]

People congregate to hotspots, that's a fact. However spawn codes aren't there to allow more people to form hotspots.

All it's there to do is allow a group of friends to spawn on a random place of the island together, instead of spawning at different random places and then meeting in a hotspot after 20 minutes of running.

[urban flax]

What even is there to observe ?? We don't have spawncodes in the game yet

[gritty heart]

People (such as myself) already can drive their own Dinos to their deaths in order to get a preferred spawn

[placid anchor]

We have mass suicides, which allow players to spawn faster in the location they want. This is already enough to keep most of the island dead. Spawning next to friends will make it even worse, isn't that obvious?

[placid anchor]

I understand why you defend such mechanics, because it is convenient for you. Then the question is: why don't you ask the developers to make the island 100 by 100 meters, so that you don't have to spend a long time looking for each other?

[thick summit]

While the speed nerf was a bit much I think it's alright in exchange for the new alt attacks

Sub maias just have to stay hidden

[grave marsh]

@brittle kiln Clearly who wants to nerf troodon speed, DOESN'T play with it.

[urban flax]

No that's exactly the other way around
People suicide because they want to spawn in hotspots, or because they want to spawn with their friends
Adding friend codes would remove half the suicides

[urban flax]

Why do you talk about me, as if I was the one who asked for it ?

[wooden agate]

youre physically about the same size as an adult by 60% lol

[thick summit]

I'm aware

[wooden agate]

theres not much hiding you can do with that

theyve genuinely killed the survivablity of younger maias in favor of letting the older ones kick ass without thinking of how the younger ones actually get to be the older ones

atleast thats how it looks

[urban flax]

herd animal

[wooden agate]

because the moment a cerato spots you and youre under 60% youre cooked flat out lol

[wooden agate]

having to herd up to be viable is cringe and we both know this

[urban flax]

Eat grass

[wooden agate]

eat grass and die.... true..... this is the herbivore way

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/855527844670865438/1187576325574238238/text.gif

[thick summit]

I mean hey

At least maia can fight back against carnos, dilos, omnis and ceratos again

[wooden agate]

too bad these carnos/dilos/omnis/ceratos will be feasting on them before they get to a size where they can fight back

20 kph 🔥 i love hearing stories of juvie maias being chased down by stegos

atleast carno got some good buffs that still fit its niche. thats cool, i like HT carno

[urban flax]

AFK growing in a remote corner of the map becomes the meta again

[thick summit]

Hell yeah

[wooden agate]

unfortunately that is probably one of the only ways youll actually be growing a maia anytime soon, similarly to pachy

[thick summit]

Dibble got some buffs too I believe

But Carno is great on the HT

[wooden agate]

maia is suffering from what pachy suffered from when mutations got added

[wooden agate]

oo really? peak, dibble is so fun

[urban flax]

Well no, there is a big difference
Pachy does not become viable once it's full grown

[wooden agate]

TRUE

[thick summit]

Erm dibble is op!!! It can kill my juvi ceratosaurus

[wooden agate]

its just FG pachy and sub maia are facing similar issues right now

[thick summit]

I did grow a dibble on the ht but the server reset my growth back to 18% so I couldn't really do science

But dondi said dibble's gore will do a lot more damage

And the get up time got adjusted so yeah

I'll do some science when the update drops

[wooden agate]

ngl i was kinda sad when maia's get up got adjusted

i figured that would be the main way rex was getting ambushed on maia so i was like oh they removed that,,, ono

then they added the 5 second accel for biped running and it was peak

[thick summit]

Its crushing ability exists

[wooden agate]

its gotta get up on them to crush em first

but i can see how artificially increasing reaction time with long stand up periods is cringe

[indigo gulch]

Yeah, and that is an awful way to do it and not a solution xD

[urban flume]

they nerfed troodon damage aswell?

its like they dont want us to play troodon anymore

[wooden agate]

theyre likely working on things in the background to buff troodon

dondi has been saying for weeks now that hes very aware troodon is in a crap spot

[urban flume]

[woeful latch]

i wish they could give it a nerf when the buff is ready, not before lol

[wooden agate]

even though its not thaaat bad in live

[wooden agate]

true

[coarse spruce]

troodon has always been a bad hunter as a juvenile because its biteforce doesn't scale like any other creature's does

<5 bite force by the time it gets venom, when its max is 15

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message that would make it too easy for herbis to grow. which it already is. It also give carni juvies more time to hunt the juvie herbis, which gives carnis more incentives to go to sanctuaries

[coarse spruce]

Sanctuaries are meant to be the easy place to grow. Carnivores are (I hope) about to get the same treatment with sanctuary AI

[golden horizon]

Where do you know this from ?

[coarse spruce]

That's what sanctuaries were always meant to be. I'm paraphrasing here, but the devs would allude to it being 'a safe space for juveniles to hide and grow from larger animals'

the sanctuary mushrooms give you all three diets to make the juvenile stage go by faster. And I'm REALLY hoping that sanctuary AI also gives all three diets

[wooden agate]

the fact they are called sanctuaries, the fact the mushrooms give all 3 diets, the fact its confirmed carnivores are getting AI in the sancs at some point

also the fact they explicitly kickout larger creatures

[coarse spruce]

Buff bees though. Exponentional damage isn't enough

[urban flax]

Slow effect on bee stings ?

I don't think making bees murder machines is a good idea

[coarse spruce]

Whatever debuff it is, it should be slow to ramp up but takes forever to go away. Also the effect is only active while in range of bees. So it disappears immediately if you're far away from the sanctuary but kicks back in when you're close

To stop sanctuaries from being camped

I'm not sure how bee damage works right now, but I get the idea that any damage ramp up resets when you leave the AoE

[urban flax]

My thinking is that with a speed debuff, large animals won't be as effective in camping sanctuaries

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message Maybe the devs are preparing the players with future changes for troodon. I remember they talked about, that they werent happy where troodon was in the ecosystem and wanted to make it feel better to play

[coarse spruce]

Trot-only debuff and bite debuff. You leave and its gone, but come back and you keep suffering

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message without video its hard to tell, but it's prolly due to desynch

#general-feedback message best option is f2 recording and then report them to admins, your solution could get exploited

[covert tiger]

Yeah it's not gonna work
Wait till hordetest ports over
It's much easier and fixed
But again, you're labeled for all to see so there's no secret canni anymore

[placid anchor]

Perhaps the translator is distorting the idea I'm trying to convey. Trouble.
Okay, look. Here's what I'm talking about: we have a large island. But at the same time, we have 2-3 places on the island where players gather en masse, the most famous being the southern river. The rest of the island is a desert, where there are no players, and sometimes even bots. Suicides are a big problem that makes huge areas unplayable. This problem occurs because it is an easy and unpunished way to appear in the place the player needs. Adding the ability to appear next to friends worsens the problem of an empty island

[woeful latch]

#general-feedback message thenyaw is legit such a bad map, it would need hours of work to just fix all the buggy ugly terrain. not to mention the map itself is bad, its not good

gateway is arguably the best map we’ve ever had, the rest are just ehh mehh bleh 🤢

not to mention i don’t want to download a map that weights gigabytes for 5 people that will play on it

[wooden agate]

v3 should come back ngl in a remade version, even as a mod

v3 in evrima with evrima graphics would be peak.

especially if it was an extensive rework, comparable to the map changes between ASE and ASA lol

[woeful latch]

v3 was at least a good map lol.

but only if they update everything and i still don’t want to download an additional map.. but as a mod map it would be nice

[urban flax]

I doesn't
Allowing players to spawn directly in hotspots every time would do that, but spawn codes do not

It's not "spawn next to another player of your species every time you spawn in"

It was described as a temporary code players get when they spawn in. If another player types the code before spawning in the timeframe during which it's available, they can spawn next to each other and start playing together right away without needing to traverse half the map first, or suiciding 6 times until they spawn next to each other

It really has nothing to do with hotspots

2 players aren't a hotspot

[woven bane]

@river idol they buffed carnotaurus’s stamina on HT

[cerulean igloo]

dude troodon is completely unplayable

[swift raft]

Interesting..is it very noticable? (I'm still salty about troodon nerf but i might force myself to jumpmon and try carno)

[cerulean igloo]

starved out 3 times BECAUSE I WALK AS FAST AS A DIBBLE

[swift raft]

yea its unplayable..im a troodon main..and i just feel like quitting the game lol

[cerulean igloo]

i might uninstall after this tbh

its the only dino i play

[swift raft]

there are 2 -3 posts in general fedback go give them a like and show devs this aint it..

[cerulean igloo]

imagine walking up to an already disabled kid and kicking him in the mouth as hard as you can, thats what they jsut did with troo

[swift raft]

hahah yea..we were already the most helpless juve carnivore and now we are the SLOWEST thing on 2 legs to ever have existed

must be a bug...it has to be

[cerulean igloo]

ill give em till the next update and if they dont do something drastic to troo im parting ways forsure

[swift raft]

Yea understandable..if they gonna ruin a playable like that, one that no onme had any complaints about, ever.. it just ruins the experience for the dedicated troodon mains.. why waste our time with a game if it doesnt value ours..?

[cerulean igloo]

people have been asing for troo buffs for years lol its almost a troll move

[river idol]

THANK GOODNESS

[cerulean igloo]

tested it out after finding a corpse to eat on, we regain our top speed @ 40%....

[covert tiger]

@cosmic swan being handed food when you're starving defeats the entire purpose of hunger and starvation
Why is there an expectation that starvation should never happen?
It's an essential part of survival keeping yourself topped up and there's a huge number of AI on the map right now to sustain everything

If you find yourself starving repeatedly, there's several things you can improve on such as recording where you've encountered ai reliably in the past, or using headphones so you can hear them better

[cerulean igloo]

Also looks like troo's top speed might have been increased

[woven bane]

?

how fast

[cerulean igloo]

I'm @ 38 kph, not even half grown. granted i have a speed mut, it shouldnt be this high

up to 38.5 now

39

[covert tiger]

Tell us the fg speed before making conclusions lol

[cerulean igloo]

fair 😄

troo max speed was 35 before, wasnt it?

or am i off?

[cosmic swan]

Its far too inconstant though. The rivers and lakes are awful on some servers. Then sometimes it just never spawns

[covert tiger]

No it was 45 I believe

[cerulean igloo]

AH myb, disregard me then

[covert tiger]

Rivers and lakes are inconsistent for sure
But that too is fine
There should be no predictable reliable AI spawns that everyone can just go to so that they guarantee never starving - it would encourage camping and abuse

There's also patterns
Fish spawn wayyyy less at night or during rain

[cosmic swan]

I get that completely but when you've traveled from Water access to delta dam with nothing showing up the whole way, id say its a bit of an issue

[cerulean igloo]

baby trikes are so helpless against troos i feel kinda bad

[covert tiger]

Deinos just need slower food drain tbh given their super opportunistic playstyle

[cerulean igloo]

Reabsorbtion doesnt give thirst through rain, v bugged

[covert tiger]

It's working in evrima, broken in hordetest

[cerulean igloo]

tuff

[cerulean igloo]

max speed still 45, bite force still 15 upon FG troodon

juvie life just got a whole hell of alot harder is all

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message 2 people hate omni and still want it to have the buggy pounce 💀

[dawn hound]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1348701602520895589 can i know where you died to starvation? @cosmic swan because i know certain areas that have more than needed amounts of ai: highlands, south plains, mudlfats (only crabs and psitaccos). I would like to know your locations where you starve out the most

[dawn hound]

Quite literally i go to spots where ai is just stuck because of pathfinding or because i know where they spawn. They should NOT work like this at all, and afterall should have better pathfinding.

[swift raft]

our damage took a 17% nerf, hard - thats what others have said

I thought turn rarius was nerfed too

[cerulean igloo]

damage is only nerfed as a juvie. unless our damage stack was changed from our venom

nah turn radius is fine

[swift raft]

radius

[cerulean igloo]

we still breakin legs with our turn radius

[swift raft]

mhh..just looks nerfed cause so slow lol

[cerulean igloo]

yeah once you're fg its fine, its getting to FG thats hard

[languid wagon]

ai

[inland vigil]

LOL

its fine they can mald about omnis all they want 😤 the civilized of us want our dinosaurs to function

[golden horizon]

fr

[shell orchid]

#general-feedback message
Okay but someone explain to me why are ppl voting no on this?? You cannot bring the argument; "Well, because then all people would be at 1 spot" when it's already that case.. we have 3 MAIN areas, which is mostly the South or Northern Lake, where everyone hangs..

No way people don't want spawn points back

or at least a way to respawn faster

[ancient kestrel]

PZs got nerfed on HT already while MZs buffed

[ancient kestrel]

If they are not for food - what they should do then?

[shell orchid]

and that suggestion above is also for fixing the fact that you can slide down HUGE cliffs whilst taking 0 damage

0% realistic

[thick summit]

they're not fully implemented yet

[ancient kestrel]

What they are meant for?

I don't think that they are gonna remove food from PZs at all since instead devs just nerfed their spawn rate and duration on HT

[thick summit]

we dunno yet

[ancient kestrel]

Wild. Coordinates way too useful to get removed. You guys don't even understand that certain things shouldn't be touched

[golden horizon]

#general-feedback message

1. In legacy the problem was that the entire night was dark, but in evrima its only sunset and dawn where it gets really dark, the rest of the night is actually fine depending on how much the moon is exposed. This makes alot of sense considering you took the screenshot at 7 am which is around dawn which will be the darkest moment of the night, and therefore the most vulnerable time where carnivors have the upper hand and an opening to attack

2. You're also playing a big herbivor, which in this case is the biggest herbivor with insane stats, so ofcourse it makes sense that it has bad nightvision just like stego does to make up for the stats that it gets

You're making it sound like its this dark the whole night, which is very disingenuous imo. You only have to scroll a little bit to find a clip at night time on the ht, where you can practically see almost as clear as day #general-feedback message

[ancient kestrel]

MZs usally are around hotspots where the players hanging around

[thick summit]

they're not around hotspots

[ancient kestrel]

Lifehack: start running in quadroped stance and then switch to biped - you will be shocked

[ancient kestrel]

Why map downloading is issue for you- it will be just in game. Also devs are planing add new maps anyways in future

[placid anchor]

You guys don't even understand that some things can't be entered

[ancient kestrel]

Point stays. Player should have ability to meet with his friends. And it's already said that it only available for freshpawns.

Coords just good to get idea where player is since read above about newbies dying of starvation cause they don't have any idea where they supposed to go. Not to speak that removing coordinates won't cure tendency of people to gather on hotspots because it's not reason why they do that. They will do it even if you remove it. people gathering on hotspots precisely because most of the map is jungles where people can't see any action

Also Dondi did say that there will be in-game map later. not sure how it exactly work except it was mentioned it will have fog of war so you would have to travel around to reveal all the spots

[urban flax]

Wait what ? I thought he was precisely the reason there wasn't an in-game map

[harsh sun]

#general-feedback message the new grass looks off because of the terrible render distance. A developer confirmed that it will be fixed.

[ancient kestrel]

I can pull the video where he said that. Wait a minute...

[urban flax]

a minute has passed
It was all a lie

[ancient kestrel]

https://youtu.be/LpSW4_-agDA?t=1972 Should be with built-in time code

So map will be part of scent UI

[urban flax]

That's interesting to hear

[ancient kestrel]

It was a little bit hard to scroll out through video with those stupid streamers yapping and interrupting Dondi

So idea will be that this type of built-in map should encourage exploration while also being tied to the most important thing people use to navigate - scent

[urban flax]

Sounds like a perfect middle ground to giving players a map while also wanting them to explore, but I'd have to see how it's executed

[ancient kestrel]

I guess it will be part of new UI which will come with allo update probably

[thick summit]

I saw

I doubt it'll be a full map though

[balmy gazelle]

@radiant nest why waste time writing that one something thats so clearly going to get changed

[white elm]

#general-feedback message Unlike a dibble of the same size, trike is far slower. I believe the intent is for large baby trikes to be decent food for adult rexes

[radiant nest]

Hordetesting is for feedback, and I gave mine.

[white elm]

I think we should wait for both Rex and trike to be hordetested together before we adjust its growth curve

[radiant nest]

Speed is the only thing Diablo has over trike, but the important bit is that trike has a growth curve that makes the most of the weights where food and combat are easiest instead of hardest

[thick summit]

But right now it's just more powerful than a dibble within a shorter period of time

[white elm]

Difference is, dibble will be able to run from an adult Rex, trike at that stage probably won't

It will be free food

[radiant nest]

When food is most plentiful, you grow far faster allowing you to grow extremely quickly past vulnerability without food being an issue

Then when food becomes an issue, the game slows down your growth so it isn’t much of an issue anymore

[thick summit]

Why would you grow a dibble for 3 hours if you could have a far superior animal that ain't even fully grown yer within a fraction of dibble's growth time

[thick summit]

Possibly but it doesn't really change the fact that trike is just the better pick rn

[woven bane]

this isn’t just about 1 matchup though

[white elm]

Because a dibble will be able to escape from apexes

[radiant nest]

My issue is that trike’s growth curve makes it fundamentally super easy to survive as

[thick summit]

Yeah

Dibble may be able to run

But trike is by far more worth growing if the growth curve doesn't change

[white elm]

Not if it's run down by apexes repeatedly

[thick summit]

I mean

It's very similar to legacy

Sub trikes just stayed hidden

[radiant nest]

This requires there to be a ton of apexes, which we don’t want

[thick summit]

The current curve would cause the apex META to return

[white elm]

Again, we have Rex on the horizon, waiting to see how it pans out with a genuine predator is the best option

[thick summit]

And we don't need an apex dominated game

[thick summit]

This isn't just about rex

[radiant nest]

Rex won’t make trike worse at surviving

[radiant nest]

Unless Rex is easy to grow

[white elm]

??????

[thick summit]

It's about some animals being worthless just because their larger cousin released

Dibble/sty/ava/pachhrhino would be overshadowed by trike

[woven bane]

balancing trike around 1 other animal ah yes

[thick summit]

And trike is an apex

[white elm]

Other apexes exist y'know

[thick summit]

It shouldn't have an easy time

[radiant nest]

Apexes existing isn’t a reason to make apex growth easier

[thick summit]

Apexes are loud

[radiant nest]

The change I suggested would maximize trike survival difficulty

[white elm]

Lets just not be hasty about this

[thick summit]

"Stomps? Let me sit in this bush for a minute and I'll be safe"

[radiant nest]

It’s the one change that trike needs besides sparring

Otherwise I think trike is very well balanced for now

Combat power can be reevaluated once we have Rex to look at

[thick summit]

It's not a huge nerf anyway

[radiant nest]

But survival ease doesn’t require Rex to understand

[thick summit]

It just saves the game from being an apex pvp simulator

[radiant nest]

It’s a nerf to ease of playing, not combat

So shouldn’t affect its matchup with Rex

[thick summit]

And if rex could just feed off sub trikes it'll have an easy time growing AND surviving

Apexes should be a challenge to maintain

[obsidian jetty]

the one question I have reading this discussion is...why should a baby Trike be adequate food for an adult rex? Why would one juvi apex be balanced around another adult apex?

might just be me, but I thought adult rexes were supposed to eat adult trikes

[radiant nest]

I think they’re supposed to eat anything they can get their tiny hands on

But I think what homunculus meant is that like sub trike is supposed to be good food for Rex

Not baby, but a trike that’s actively growing but still at a large size

[obsidian jetty]

well yes, but that a 30% Trike is supposed to be adequate food for an adult Rex...I dunno, that just sounds weird to me

[radiant nest]

I agree, though I’m personally more concerned about trike being way too easy to grow

[worthy plover]

A 30% trike weighs a couple of tons doesn’t it. That would fill up pretty much anything. Also I assume the rex is gonna be a decently slow apex as well and the smaller trikes are able to run circles around their adult counterparts from what i have seen. So i don’t think an adult rex is going to be able to catch the smaller trikes that much to begin with.

[radiant nest]

@rotund ibex hey btw those bees only show up in a few small spots on the map called sanctuaries, which are “safe” zones for most baby and very small dinos. Other areas of land don’t have bees.

[rotund ibex]

Well I was a baby

[gritty heart]

I dunno if deinos are exempt/you passed some size limit, but there is nothing really to reach that direction.

Tbh, deino is a rough playable. In the water it is exorbitantly powerful (which concerns me for the future moderately sized semi aquatics), but in practice it’s overkill, and you mostly just end up cannibalizing.

To compensate you have very restricted territory and burn through food like some sort of mammal

If you just want to play in the water beipi is a more generally enjoyable option for exploring, though Ofc you are no longer an ambush predator.

[summer geode]

@valid brook

You are looking at deinos the wrong way.

They are essentially an environmental hazard, not something like a rex or raptor pack.

They have the exact same impact as a cliff or pit of lava.

Don't go there and you'll be fine. Get greedy or mess around or make a mistake- and you'll pay the price.

Deino can't actively stalk anything, and only ever fights other deinos to prevent starvation/competition.

"Omg I died in one hit with zero counterplay" isn't valid when you could just easily "walk somewhere else to drink"

A deino will literally stare at food for hours that is just barely out of range and starve to death ffs.

To use your "run hide fight" concept, which would you apply to a cliff or a pit of lava?

None of them.

"Avoid" or "don't be stupid" apply nicely however.

[gritty heart]

Generally you don’t drink from lava but that’s a fair point xd

[summer geode]

Same with deinos- they are largely a static threat and can be effortlessly circumvented with some vigilance

And if there is a deino in some random 99.999% safe pond? Guess what- they'll probably starve to death as nothing will come by.

[gritty heart]

They live in water. They also already covered the circumvented.

Personally I just think Deinos are badly designed, BECAUSE they act like hazards. You win by simply not letting them play

Which makes deinos basically starvation/cannibalism simulator.

[summer geode]

I'd argue that their impact is 100% fine, their game play is just in a bad state due to the lack of development on the water ecosystem

A spino could just as easily, if not better, grief a water spot

[gritty heart]

The only place I really find that true is SP because it’s so active that people cross anyways, and in enough numbers that it isn’t “desperate deino attacks literally anything”.

[minor basalt]

Well the game doesn't force you to walk off of a cliff or into lava, you're forced to drink. But yeah I agree that at times deinos barely ever get to actually hunt and are entirely dependent on getting lucky by being at the right place at the right time so it can get boring

[gritty heart]

I’m aware spinos were my sucho/bary bane in legacy xd

[summer geode]

And some dinos effectively being map hazards is 10000000% OK

Thats essentially what stego is right now, what trike will be, and what the titanosaurs will be.

[gritty heart]

I’d be avoiding the 300 trillion carnivore players around a lake and then a spino takes a dip and I have to make Bambi eyes at it

[minor basalt]

I think it's mostly fine, you can drink from basically anywhere in the river delta and the chances that you're going to get grabbed by a deino are pretty low since it's such a big area. Same with highlands lake

[summer geode]

Anyone whose ever actually grew a deino has died 1 of 2 ways.

Killed by a starving deino to avoid future competition....

Or starved to death themselves...

[gritty heart]

Stego isn’t really a map hazard. You don’t go and drink/eat and get attacked by a stego in waiting. Nor does it gameplay revolve around needing to kill others

Herra is an example of an ambusher that doesn’t just act like a map hazard

[gritty heart]

Or dehydrated for daring to step on land

[minor basalt]

Basically yeah. Watching your one chance at a meal just walk away from the water just because you got unlucky while you're starving to death is painful lmao

[summer geode]

But viewing a deino as just another carnivore like rex raptor cera or carno is just wrong.

They are essentially just map hazards.

And through their mere existence they force the entire playerbase to change their playstyle and actual migration paths

[valid brook]

I disagree. When you walk off a cliff, its not a, seemingly, 50/50 if you die (okay. well maybe in the isle, but thats a bug). or if you step on lava, its not a 50/50. and theres no reason to do either of those two things. when it comes to drinking however, yeah you can go all the way across the map to safe drinking spot, yeah you can find those few areas that allow you to do so safely, but that was exactly one of the points i was making. you have to adapt your play style to avoid a playable. not engage with in a favorable away but straight up avoid. thats not a healthy relationship in a game that is all about player interaction.

Deino isnt like a static obstacle in anyway. you dont know where they will be, and you're forced to either entirely avoid or risk interaction with them, and for most dinos, interaction is instant death. What im asking for in the post is increased interaction. something that you as the player can actively do to engage with another player in the game that isnt just "forfeit your life"

[summer geode]

If you drink at an open spot in deino infested water that is tantamount to jumping into lava.

Just don't do it and you'll be fine 100% of the time.

Grow a deino in SP and watch it starve to death, then convince me it needs further nerfs.

I'll wait

[valid brook]

fair, but let me ask you this, besides just knowing the hotspots. how are you to tell that a water has a deino in it? they may just be logged off at the time, or none in that general area.

[summer geode]

Adapting to avoid a playable is 1000000% valid.

Stegos are essentially map hazards right now.

Trikes will be next month.

What do you think titanosaurs will be??

A playable being a map hazard changes player dynamics at a wider scale then anything else in the game currently.

[valid brook]

not saying it needs nerfs. im saying it needs better player interaction. plus i h've been there. done that. but it was back during the days that SP was extremely fruit-full and stego didnt have power swing so. it was incredibly strong. i know deino is a boring dino. there does need to be more for it. but its current interaction is frankly boring for all other players besides the deino involved

[summer geode]

I disagree.

I believe it needs to remain in its current state but that water environments need to be changed instead.

[valid brook]

I would say Herreras are more of a map hazard than those other ones. Stegos you can just walk around with 0 issues. trikes are the same way. just stand outta reach, this is also something quickly touched on. Herreras though. you can see or hear them if you're paying attention, and if you do get ambushed, while punishing, isnt guaranteed death for most things

[gritty heart]

herras also are much more reactable if you see it mid attack.

pretty much anything they could kill can move fast enough to just dodge

[minor basalt]

That's just how ambush creatures are. Rexes are gonna be camping travel routes when they come out, and if you get grabbed there's going to be nothing you can do

[summer geode]

"You can just walk around a stego"

You can also just go to the safe drink spot...

And stegos can bully off of bodies/ponds just as effectively as a deino can.

Be FG stego

Go to the drink Rock at SP

Stand there

Boom. You've now water blocked an entire area with even less effort than a deino

[summer geode]

True- but herras are less lethal than a deino.

Tradeoffs.

[gritty heart]

the trade off is being easier to dodge for being less lethal?

[summer geode]

Herras can be anywhere.

Deinos are in 100% predictable locations.

Trade offs.

You aren't going to magically be killed by a deino at NW ridge or in J sector HL in a bush.

[valid brook]

so, from what im understanding then is, you're happy that the only interaction that deinos have between themselves and other non-deinos is an insta kill? more or less. i frankly think thats just called poor game design.

Imagine playing a racing game but 50% of the time you entered the car you died.
playing a shooting game but every other bullet you fired had a chance to just explode your gun killing you.

Thats kind of the effect that deino has. and going on to your "stego blocking bodies of waters or ponds" theory. the only reason thats possible is because deinos exist. otherwise you can. once again, just avoid the stego because its a visibile threat. Deinos are invisible threats. they're not something you can reactively avoid but have to proactively avoid instead. If we want to use stego as a example here, we'd have to say taht the second the stego shows itself to you its in attack range. as thats what deinos are.

[gritty heart]

so by blocking one drinking spot it blocks better than something which can block all the drinking spots in an area?

[summer geode]

No.

I water the water ecosystem to be expanded.

I want spinl, and Barry and allllll the others.

I want better fish spawns and I want bait fish to feed FG deino again.

But I dont want deino to become less effective at what it does

[valid brook]

Herreras are also in fairly predictable spots aswell. anywhere where theres something above your head, just look up. you can still spot them if you're paying attention. if you come into an area with water wanting a drink, the only reliable way to determine theres no deino is to sit there for 15-20 minutes before drinking, but even then a deino can just log in under the water

[summer geode]

Which is to be a map hazard

[summer geode]

Fairly predictable =/= 100% gurranteed

Big difference

[gritty heart]

you can always see them if you look hard enough.

[valid brook]

true, but thats the same with deino. its fairly predictable that deinos will be in most water bodies

[gritty heart]

they are clinging to the side of a tree, just stop looking for pennies and you will spot them.

[summer geode]

Yes except you can effortlessly avoid a deino

[valid brook]

i agree, and this will likely come in time, but in the meantime i think its better if you expand player interaction, and give players the ability to fight back in some regard rather than resigning their life the second they need water. having put multiple thousands of hours into this game, the only death i ever find boring is a death to a deino. because you have no chance

[summer geode]

Deino is meant to be a map hazard.

Not some "fight you at the beach for 5 mins" playable

[summer geode]

I disagree.

Deinos mere existence changes how the entire playerbase plays.

New players learn the hard way

[summer geode]

Then just don't drink in the unsafe spots

It's tempting fate every time and you know it lol

I've never died to a deino because it's not that hard to avoid them

[valid brook]

again. disagree. you can effortlessly avoid a deino if you build your playstyle around avoiding them. which isnt something that should have to be done. Having almost every player in the game have to AVOID a specific character is bad design. If you play mostly in highlands or in WRA, the closest safe water is either the salt water mutation or water access. which requires a lot of preplanning and preperation to want to get to intime

[summer geode]

They make water a critical resource that requires planning.

"Oh I'm at 50% water, better start heading to a safe drinking spot up river"

Vs

"Oh I'm at 50% water, who cares there's a river right next to me. I'll drink when at 0% without even caring"

Deinos = map hazards for everyone except apex, and it should stay that way

[valid brook]

i went my first like 800 hours on spiro without dying to a deino. avoiding them easily. but again thats not the point. the point is you shouldnt have to avoid interaction. Even if you see 6 ceras across the field and you run away as your teno, thats interaction. But being anything and just going "allright well. lets drink" dead its interaction for one party, but not for the other

[summer geode]

Translation: I want deino nerfed so it's even harder to survive on and water to be easier to get for everyone

I'm sorry but I just don't agree

[knotty geyser]

maybe they are saying they want deino to be buffed on land and nerfed from the grab

[summer geode]

Deino = map hazard with zero interaction and I'm 100% fine with it

Just like I'm fine with giant cliffs and pits of lava

"Just avoid them" and it's fine

[valid brook]

Then i think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. i want more player interaction, not less. thats what i would like to see. I know quite a few people prefer to outright avoid locations of deinos because they just dont want to deal with them. and unfortunately with this it also causes part of the maps to feel dead, because people cling to edges and niche locations in an attempt to avoid an unbalanced encounter

[summer geode]

100%.

Love the debate tho- good points all around

[valid brook]

@summer geode we dont need to go into throwing insults

[summer geode]

Not saying you were an idiot- just speaking broadly and possibly a bit to carelessly

[valid brook]

thats fine, its just you know. its better to not throw those names out. ya know

[summer geode]

100%

[gentle flint]

I mean there are also the unlucky, who spawn on islands in the middle of swamp and HAVE to swim. Just unlucky.

[summer geode]

Tbf even gators hate spawning in the swamp tho lmao

Unrelated and perhaps a bit too meta here-

But Deino is a huge reason why the game does as well as it does.

Ask people why they started playing after evrima and I bet the majority will say they saw a deino gameplay video on YouTube

I know of at least 12 people that I've met in the last 4 weeks that were introduced to the game via deino game play on YouTube

[faint folio]

I don't know. I don't want deino nerfed, but I would like their mechanic to get more nuance? If only because honestly playing deino is both grueling AND boring... You basically have to get lucky and hope that someone new or desperate (seriously messed up water management) drinks somewhere stupid. I would like if deino got more encounters because other dinos didn't have the choices of:

1. drink at a "safe spot" where the chance of being grabbed is 0% due to rocks or branches
2. drink anywhere else and 50/50 chance of immediate game over.

Deino's mechanic isnt fun for deino or the prey as a result

I still VERY MUCH want it to be the scary effective water ambusher that it is. I'm not sure what the balancing change to get a happy medium with both is

[gentle flint]

I mean I almost think it would make sense to have a struggle mechanic for playables but buff the weight capacity (ex. struggling against a fg Stego like some people suggest). Doesn’t mean it’ll win, but there’s more of a chance, y’know?

[summer geode]

The problem is that there will always be safe spots, so it'll just make life as a deino harder and trivialize (being hyperbolic here) water management for everyone else.

As for no interaction/not fun/zero counterplay-

Thats stego and trike.

Yeah yeah, rex is coming.

So is spino & Barry

So again-

I want the water ecosystem to be expanded upon and AI to be increased + bait fish to feed deino again

But I don't want deino nerfed.

[gentle flint]

Well Stego is about to be obliterated anyway XD

[faint folio]

Oh absolutely. Stego is equally boring for the same reason - it is so hazardous that most don't bother (unless just for bragging rights)

[summer geode]

Now postulate the impact spino will have on deino and try to justify a nerf to deino still.

[gentle flint]

I don’t think Spino will be small enough to remain unseen in shallow rivers tbf

[summer geode]

Exactly.

The difference is deino warps the entire playerbase in a good way.

Hypothetical-

Imagine if deino was removed. How would water management play out? Would the playerbase still clump together into herds or would everyone be spread out 24/7 without a care in the world? How much of that is poor map design as opposed to the existence of deino?

Whether you like it or not, deino as a map hazard is arguably the best step toward the digital ecosystem goal done so far.

[gentle flint]

I’m just saying, every shallow pond or puddle in the game I’ve seen at least 1 deino in, even if it seems too inconvenient or out of the way. Deino gameplay is SO BORING they’re rather exist in a space where they can’t move just for the chance to snag something. I’ve even seen them camping bushes near shallow spots for crying out loud. “Safe” is still a 50/50, unless you want to exist in the god awful swamp perpetually for shallow water spots. I personally just get salt water to never have to drink. 5 minutes of inconvenience when I spawn vs losing hours of progress down the line.

[summer geode]

No but if done properly a FG deino and a FG spino will avoid eachother, carving out unique and natural territories

Example- spino owns SP because it can walk and get there easier.

Meanwhile, deino owns swamp because it's too shallow for spino to effectively ambush in.

Spinkle in some map design changes to coerce people into visiting both areas and BOOM. Better ecosystem

The flaws in the current ecosystem are not because of deino, they are because deino is all there is

[summer geode]

Sure. And every single deino in WA east lake or Wrail has inevitably starved to death.

[faint folio]

Eh... For the sake of your own argument, say they implemented spino before deino? Or deino with 1000 biteforce but no snatch?

I suspect that you'd see a similar deterrent where people will be careful about water management and planning to avoid aquatic apexes, without necessarily seeing that almost NOBODY drinks in places where deino is not hard blocked from grabbing someone?

Another way to phrase this I guess is that if deino's only function is to force players to drink from a few shallow, blocked off safe spots, then deino should have been an AI. It's somewhat unfair to deino that they are simply denied food so easily, in a way that other ambushers like rex and Herrera either don't (or probably won't) see

[gentle flint]

I’ve seen the same deino in WRA pond for weeks before, they can definitely survive if they care to. Just gotta know when to call it quits and log because people are on to you.

[summer geode]

"Should have been AI"

You could argue that it's more map design failures than playable balance issues tbh

But deino is still fine as is. If anything spino and barry will balance it out for the better

Basically deino is current stego, but in water.

Stego will be balanced with rex

Deino will be balanced with spino/better map design

[summer geode]

I 100% can tell you he logs in, gets a kill, then logs out.

There's one on NA2 that's been doing it for months, and it's literally the only way to survive

[faint folio]

I still don't think they're quite equivalent. Stego doesn't rely on other players making mistakes to eat. Deino REQUIRES players to walk up to the waters edge somewhere where the map allows him to have a chance to lunge someone. If everyone drinks at that one spot with rocks and logs that blocks the lunge, he will starve - both literally and in terms of interest. It's REALLY boring to wait and hope someone will come down to the water to drink when 90% of the player base knows the safe spots and just hard sidesteps the issue entirely

[gritty heart]

what will bary do to balance deino?

[faint folio]

Stego will be balanced by rex via population control. Spino will apply population control to deinos, but they likely won't fix the issue with people drinking at safe spots where deino is unable to grab people

Because again, it's 50% chance of survival vs 100% chance of survival. If you know about the safe drinking spot at SP, it would be foolish to risk it anywhere else on that river

[summer geode]

Be more food, which will reduce cannibalism of FG deinos but overall reduce young deino population + prevent deino from camping random ponds

[indigo gulch]

I would like it a lot more if there were people across the map and not just in west rail access, highlands or south plains

[summer geode]

Agreed.

But that's more of a map design issue than because of deino

[indigo gulch]

Then I could actually hunt around places and you would get a reduced chance of finding a deino

[faint folio]

Me too. The map really needs more people in general - it's a huge map for only 100 players

[summer geode]

Personally I think 200+ would be sweet, but there still needs to be a reason to go to the other half of the map

It's just 80% jungle or worthless space (swamp)

[indigo gulch]

Sprinting towards prey that isnt oneshotable in the water while you see them further up a river takes a lot of stamina, which you then can’t use for the drowning. It’s a lot more counterable than “sit in a pond that is popular and waste 0 stam” deino

[faint folio]

Swamp needs better herbivore foods... It's missing a draw for herbis and I think if the Herbis went carnivores would follow. There's generally good sightlines in the swamp

[indigo gulch]

I tested this with someone and there is a lot more counter than people realize, but it gets reduced by the fact there is only a fee guaranteed places to find food being stil water

[gritty heart]

If it is in random ponds (I'll probably grow it in west access) it won't be being eaten by deinos, and tbh I don't see many bary players going to where deinos are. It would be like asking to be grabbed.

[summer geode]

Exactly. And that, at large, affects how the playerbase reacts.

It makes water a critical resource.

"Oh we have to go to XYZ spot to drink, but be ready to go somewhere else if it's guarded by ABC"

Vs

"Oh I'm low on water let's walk 1 min away and drink at the river"

[indigo gulch]

In short: Deino has counterplay, but the lack of prey in non-river areas makes it seem like there isnt

[summer geode]

This x1000

[indigo gulch]

Even tho the anti clipping measure exists too

[gritty heart]

deino counterplay is drinking where they cant get you. It's about as one dimentional of a playable as you can get

[faint folio]

Jungle almost needs a rework on how players "see". It's unpopular because players can't see where they're going

[summer geode]

Anyone who hates deino just needs to grow one to FG and watch it starve or get canni'd by a starving deino to realize that deino isn't the problem, its environment is

[smoky monolith]

whats wrong with the hordetest servers rn?

[summer geode]

Yup.

It's a map hazard

[gritty heart]

I've played plenty of deino.

Deino is the problem, other aquatics can survive. It's designed as a playable that wins when you drink where it is and starves when you are

[summer geode]

Infested by KoSing trikes iirc

[gritty heart]

yeah, a map hazard isnt good playable design

[smoky monolith]

they wont load

for some reason

[vestal forge]

is there any way to know if a suggestion/feedback is confirmed to come to the game at a later update?

[gritty heart]

I don't play as much deino these days because beipi fulfills an actually enjoyable aquatic.

[covert tiger]

@tame jetty bro I don't even know what to say - your takes are absolutely horrible and I don't think you have a clue how balancing works
Everything you suggest is the exact opposite of what it should be

[gritty heart]

no

[summer geode]

No, it's excellent design- just not your preferred playstyle.

Not everything has to be interactive and have extreme counterplay.

Example- explain how a titanosaur would play once at FG

[vestal forge]

y

[smoky monolith]

does anyone know if the servers are down because they wont load and i just want to know if its just me

[summer geode]

"Oh but 50+ raptors could kill it after 2+ hours"

Coolstory.

[summer geode]

Because reasons

[faint folio]

Eh... No. Spino would get the same behavior (oh guarded by spino so we need to go somewhere else for water), without causing players to look for that one shallow spot where you can drink without being lunged by deino and drowned.

The problem is a combination of deino and the map. Fixing the map to remove safe spots would help but not entirely fix the issue. Fixing deino would help, but again not entirely fix the issue.

[smoky monolith]

thanks guys

super helpful lol

[icy lion]

The servers are down, and this is the channel to discuss the posts from #general-feedback

[smoky monolith]

ok

ty

[indigo gulch]

I genuinely enjoy playing ambushing deino and having the grab work is part of the satisfaction. That’s why I’m usually not in the west rail or highlands and sp. Boring. But it’s been quiet because pz is too strong and no playable goes to migration zones anymore

[gritty heart]

Practically speaking we don't have titanosaurus, so I can't honestly judge it since we don't know exactly what the devs will do.

Anyways, there is a decent chance it will be inherently poorly designed.

Regardless, it will be extremely visible when large, and apexes can likely gang up to try and hunt it (its size making it actually possible to feed all of said apexes. How well it can fight back is entirely unknown due to that being a dev thing).

[indigo gulch]

Tbf it wasn’t this much of a problem when the rivers were connected. But that had a whole other set of massive problems….

[gentle flint]

I’ve also played plenty of deino, it sucks to play most of the time (because of bugs and map design and nerfs) and it sucks to play against. Being a deino isn’t fun, and playing against a deino isn’t fun lmao. Lots of reasons to not like them XD
All game play interaction is done in 0.1 second and then it’s back to starving until the next 0.1 second

I’d rather be bold and fight things who think they have a chance to win rather than sit and have everyone avoid me because there’s no chance, but I know some people are into that stuff

[faint folio]

I agree not everything has to be super interactive and have extreme counterplay, however deino is in a really weird spot where it REQUIRES interaction with other players to survive (eg ambush to get food), but at the same time the fact that its mechanics have limited counterplay means that other players REQUIRE picking a spot that guarantees zero interactions with deino to survive. The end result is deino starves, a lot, and is not very interesting to play. It would be fine if it was AI... But it's not. It's kind of a boring gameplay loop.

As opposed to Herrera - it's also a so-called "map hazard" found in jungles/trees respectively. However, it both requires less interaction (has the choice to hunt players or subsist off AI), and has better counterplay (can dodge a falling Herrera, can keep moving to throw off aim, can kill a Herrera pretty easily if they miss, and there are mutations that largely hard counter Herrera bleed if you get out from under trees to prevent multiple pounces).

[indigo gulch]

I mean I still like it. I just hate the fact I spent more time defending myself against other deinos than actually ambushing

[summer geode]

"Good chance of bad design" 😂

I'd say it's closer to a 100% chance lol

But basically it'll be an order of magnitude larger than anything in the game currently and capable of obliterating anything (even rex) that is dumb enough to get under its feet + have a tail whip that will wipe out large numbers of smaller playables like raptors carnos or even ceras.

They are, quite literally, designed tk be map hazards and walking set pieces- and that'd according to the devs themselves

Does that make a future titanosaur or other giant saurapod invalid? No. Just different

[summer geode]

100%

Hopefully with the water ecosystem being improved that issue will be resolved.

[gritty heart]

I mean yes, it does make them a bad idea. You can't always stop someone from lighting dynamite, doesn't mean I need to pretend that it is a good idea xd.

[summer geode]

Well they will add one eventually. Gurranteed.

[faint folio]

True. A large part of that though is that there were NO ponds you could drink from (aside from the puddle at South Beach), which was too small for deino. This forced all players to drink at the river, and stopped deinos from camping ponds, which enabled counterplay. The map also had fewer "safe spots" where deino physically couldn't get to you.

The result is that deino was a little too easy, especially with AI fish

[summer geode]

Right now 90% of deinos supply of food is from other players.

Imagine if the water ecosystem is fully implemented, with better AI spawns.

Half or more of its food would then be players that can actually have interaction against it

Problem solved.

[gritty heart]

20 years from now when they get to it, and by then a human with a gun will snipe it anyways xd.

[summer geode]

A deino wouldn't be able to easily drown a barry or something.

Nor would it be able to easily chase down the new raptor

And spino? It'd have a fight on its hands.

Now tho? Camp in one spot and pray you get lucky before starving to death.

So yeah- deino is in a weird spot but it's not because of deinos design necessarily.

It's map + lack of other water playables more than anything

[summer geode]

Boom headshot on the giant walking beast with its head above the trees lol

[faint folio]

How big is austroraptor? I was somewhat under the impression that it's really probably too small for adult Deinos unless for some reason they caught a lot

[gritty heart]

my point was more so that I'm not really concerned over something that will likely take ages to release (humans are going on like, what, 10 years?), less about what environments it would be concerned in

[naive thicket]

Austroraptor should be 400-500 ish kg but I can't confirm that for sure

[pliant elm]

#general-feedback message @valid brook Deino can barely survive with this "hk" he has when grabbing his prey, adding a way for the victim to get around this won't be good for Deino at all.

[indigo gulch]

Not to mention the clip measure where your target is released from your grab

[pliant elm]

And honestly, not being killed by a deino when drinking water is the easiest thing there is, all the safe spots to drink are already known

[gritty heart]

"hk"?

[indigo gulch]

Idk either

[summer geode]

More food for deino = less cannibalizing

[summer geode]

Yup

[pliant elm]

He mentions in the text taking the victim underwater and drowning them like hk, so I put ""

[indigo gulch]

You wanna know how you can really punish deinos tho? Remove deino from the diet list. It’s gonna canni anyway, might as well not give it diet it being on the diet list or not is not gonna change the canni’ing

[valid brook]

if yo utell me where i might be able to decipher XD sounds like a mistype to me

[pliant elm]

Deino is already extremely difficult to grow, there is no reason to take Deino out of your diet

[valid brook]

also going with this now. im simply looking for a way to increase interaction and fun for both prey and hunter. not a straight nerf. idc if thats a nerf to grab but a buff to something else to try to equalize it out.

[faint folio]

Assuming that people play Austro... Maybe I'm jaded 😅 I kinda think that most of the tiny/small tier will be rare to nonexistent once mids and apexes come out

[gritty heart]

that would just make growth slower.

personally, I think it should have a slower hunger gain (potentially also other more accurate crocodilian features) to make it feel more like a patient ambush predator. Like the giant alligator it is. As it is feels like a mammal skinned as a croc the way it needs to fill its mouth. Might as well have added a giant ambulocetus.

[valid brook]

depends on balance. in legacy the mid tiers were king, but thats also cause the balance was a bit poor. Most things hsould be able to escape apex's fairly easily cause theyll likely be too slow.

[pliant elm]

"Deino prevents you from escaping for a, more or less, guaranteed 1 shot, and prevents you from fighting back in anyway. Fight ❌"

[valid brook]

maybe im just being blind. its possible. its late, but im not sure what the "hk" is

[pliant elm]

Hit kill

[indigo gulch]

Oi oi I said IF.

[gritty heart]

if austro is even remotely close to as nimble as beipi it will be fine. If not, then the issues begin, and it will struggle then and likely be less popular (austro fans will play it ofc)

[valid brook]

ah. gotcha

[indigo gulch]

Thyler, did you see the explanation I gave earlier for the oneshot being more balanced than you think?

[valid brook]

i thought i typed hk somewhere accidentally or something

[valid brook]

i didnt. if you can link it ill take a peak

[indigo gulch]

^this one

It isn’t as guaranteed a oneshot for the more time invested playables if the deino HAS to expend stamina to get there. But the only successful places atm are stil water ponds, which means 0 stam reduction before hand.

[valid brook]

yeah i do see where yer coming from, however, you dont need a lot of stamina to drown. unless thats changed in the last 2 or so updates

[indigo gulch]

If I want to drown a teno, I have to spend half my stam bar at least

If it’s full HP

More than willing to do the testing, just not now at 3:37am🤣

[valid brook]

Also you had a comment about people around and someone else said the map isnt fit for 100 players, and that reason is because of deinos.

i've taken the average about a month ago of deinos on the servers. On average there is about 30-45% of the playerbase is playing deinos at any given time. and then 5-10% are playing Beipis, herreras, and pteras. So at the lowest average, about 35% of all player slots are taken up by dinosaurs you more or less dont see. making the game feel more dead

[gritty heart]

imma be real, beipi herra and ptera are very different playables

[valid brook]

Also with this. its not just drinking where people get got. if you dont want to spend 30 minutes traveling to a bridge in some instances to cross water, you may swim. sometimes its 5 minutes saved. sometimes its that 30. but you can get got there aswell. and just to reiterate. im not saying there should be no risk in these things. im just saying that there should be more engagement between players

[valid brook]

oh yeah. i just classified them under "things that dont make much of an impact, or arent seen as often due to abilities"

Pteras are in the sky and on cliffs, herreras in trees, beipi in and under water. you just dont see them as much as you might a teno, carno, cera, pachy, stego. ect. and because you dont see them it can make it feel like the game is empty

[indigo gulch]

that was that yt video wasnt it?

[valid brook]

this

that was the comment i was refering to

[gritty heart]

Beipi probably fits both the best (beipi my beloved). Herra fits the unseen (but has impact), while ptera fits the low impact (but easy to see, it just happens to be useless outside of aiding others in a vc)

[valid brook]

the map is okay in size for 100 people.... if they were all on the same level of existence

[valid brook]

right. like i said. in the average i clumped them under it was just because, even if adorable, they're the most played "useless" dinos. not saying i think they should be removed by any means, but like. the fact that they are mostly unseen playables plays into why the map feels so empty all the time

comparing them to a dryo for example, who i would also classify as a "useless" dino, dryo you're more likely to see at any given time just because they are land locked

[indigo gulch]

Wait a minute, your name isn’t BEIPI is love, BEIPI is life

[indigo gulch]

Hmm maybe, but then a deino would need less food drain and it already HAS the slowest

[valid brook]

im not sure what you mean by that exactly?

[indigo gulch]

(One sec, playing battle royale)

[valid brook]

ye no worries

[gritty heart]

Dilo is love, beipi is beloved

[faint folio]

It's still 30% of the player base on a server playing deino?

I get what you're saying about ptera, beipi, and Herrera, and I agree they contribute to the map feeling empty. But it's sounds like deino is still ridiculously overpopulated - if 25 people playing deino chose something else, that would make a HUGE difference.

[valid brook]

yeah and it's 30% at its lowest average. i think the LOWEST i saw when i was counting averages was like 9 deinos on the map, and highest was in the 50s. but with my rough average, i did exlude outliers like that as they werent common

[faint folio]

I know... 45/100 players on deino is too many 😅 no wonder the game feels empty

[valid brook]

yeah its certainly a huge contributor to the emptyness. take those deinos away and put them on anything else and the game wil lfeel a lot more alive

[faint folio]

Would it be worth inventing a mechanic to try to incentivize playing creatures to help balance the server pop? I've seen a couple different variations in the suggestion channel

[valid brook]

its possible. i cant think of any myself atm but. if you can throw it in the feedback channel

[indigo gulch]

If the interaction is more fair and interactable for the prey, deino can lose its prey. And the fact that it already suffers from finding anything ONTOP of losing the prey it actually finds would mean it needs an even slower food drain (despite already having the slowest one)

[indigo gulch]

Idk man, sounds like polygamy to me 😏

[gritty heart]

the game didnt feel empty whe 90/100 were deinos on deino launch (the other 10 were stegos).

but that's only because literally everyone was in that one river spot

[faint folio]

The few I've seen either prevent you from spawning dinos that are over pop (eg you must take an egg or have a previously grown dino of that species), OR provide a buff to dinos that are underrepresented, OR a rotating roster that makes a subset available for spawn at any one time, picking sets of dinos that would work well together. Can't think of anything unique myself

[gritty heart]

I mean, yeah it should. It is a crocodilian, those guys can go ages without eating.

[valid brook]

ah okay that makes more sense, fair, but thats where they could attempt to buff it in another way.

Multiple ways to do this could be to add rich food sources on islands
make them better land threats (one though i had is make the younger deinos deadlier on land than in the water, and the older ones the water threat)

add more small rivers that players will need to cross. it doesnt have to be a straight numbers increase to buff deino, simply adding more ways for them to be in more places could be a buff. and if deino was something you could realistically battle against to avoid or escape, having them be in more places wouldnt be as bad

[faint folio]

I think the younger (50% is) deinos used to be significantly better on land. The problem with that though was that the half size deino could run way away from the river, lunge something, run all the way back, and just hang onto it for a few seconds while the 100% deino did a couple headshots to kill

It was an effective strategy, but kind of broken 😅

[valid brook]

yeah that certainly can be an issue. so there would have to be something to change it, but im not sure what

[indigo gulch]

That’s all I want. I want ambushing like a proper croc.

I like going to delta and grabbing teno’s jumping the rivers 😛

[faint folio]

I really think a small nerf to lunge on land would make sense - make it so that deino can't sprint on land if it's grabbed something it wouldn't be able to drag at a sprint

[junior nymph]

you knew what I meant lol

[faint folio]

That should effectively prevent that strategy

[indigo gulch]

It already got that.

On HT

[faint folio]

Ah

[indigo gulch]

And it can’t sprint while grabbing

[faint folio]

I don't play HT (the lag and queue frustrates me)

That should help then

I admit I did really like that smaller Crocs were slower in the water but faster on land. Kinda made young croc feel like a separate niche from adult

[covert tiger]

@valid brook hard disagree
Deino wouldn't be deino if it got those things taken away
It's already in a miserable suffering state as is

[valid brook]

if it got what taken away? Iirc i didnt say anything should be taken away, just that players should have more interaction with deinos that are fun

[indigo gulch]

The oneshot taken away I think

[covert tiger]

If it got its ability to remain unseen, unheard and inescapable taken away.

There's no croc in the world (or deino in prehistoric times) that was successful if it got seen, or heard, or escaped from.

[covert tiger]

You mention there's no counter but there is - in the form of being completely preventable.
Sure you can't do anything after it's already got you but you can do everything before, such as drinking from a safe spot.

[lucid sinew]

Any1 else think the Trike needs more Diet variety?

[thick summit]

#general-feedback message Well I agree it's unfair but if deino can't one shot you, it'd struggle even more

[empty cradle]

Is the shadows and clouds flickering a common issue?

[thick summit]

Gateway is large and unless you drink at rivers or lakes during the day you won't really encounter deinos

Deino spends time waiting in the water in hope of something coming for a drink

Deinos chances of survival depend on pure luck. Herreras, carnos, raptors, etc. can just move if they're hungry and can't find anything in the area

Deino can't. And if it kills another deino or a fish it has to blow its own cover for a moment and if it's unlucky a potential prey item sees it and drinks somewhere else

[onyx scaffold]

deinos only punish new players if you know what your doing you will literally never die to a deino

[onyx scaffold]

exactly this

[thick summit]

That's survival though

Learn from your mistakes

[onyx scaffold]

imo deino is in a bad state or is that just me

i dont play it much but it just looks like cannibal simulator

[thick summit]

It is not in a perfect state

It's not ht troodon bad but it's not doing too well either

[wooden agate]

i wouldnt say its bad, but its probably not in the best spot it could be right now

[gritty heart]

Deino is the bad state. Like Arkansas

Thankfully you can always bully other deinos

[wooden agate]

deino is almost objectively overpopulated to hell and back on every server, leading to a) a lack of actual spots without deinos that may attract attention from land players who notice the lack of deinos, b) intense cannibalisation which doesnt stop the overpopulation, just helps the larger individuals grow while the smaller ones keep spawning in for them to continue to eat and c) a bit of an identity crisis among the deino players regarding their role in the enviorment. they play as if theyre meant to be the biggest baddest thing in the game right now, yet have a kit thats expressly designed to efficently hunt mid tiers and lower in most circumstances

[ancient kestrel]

#general-feedback message Should we tell him that herbies can't die from starvation because grazing exists?

[past crystal]

deino population has gotten to a state where i will refuse to drink at certain locations, opting to choose spots that deinos can't possibly get to me in time - i.e. shallow areas, behind a rock, etc

i don't think deino needs a nerf, though, to be honest

[wooden agate]

i think any nerf to deino at this point would actually be crazy talk

[past crystal]

they already have to deal with other deinos for the entirety of their 6 hour growth.. nerfing it would be cruel

[white elm]

Deino... small game hunter niche

[past crystal]

like how adult apexes are powerful, deinos deserve to be that strong after fighting for 6 tough hours. it's not afk gameplay either, you can't do that on a deino

[wooden agate]

deino is, for all its little kinks and screw ups, working pretty well for what its supposed to do. it keeps people scared of the water, especially after the introductions of mutations that allow deino to get to every fresh water source on the map

it just needs things to elevate that experience, improve upon it, and find ways to keep it engaging for both the player and their prey. theyve mentioned in the past working on some sort of counter to deino grabs, mentioning "teeth and claws dont stop being teeth in claws just because you got grabbed."

[past crystal]

true, just like how omni pin is like a 30 second cutscene for your death in many case

i'm not saying to nerf omni pin, just make it more engaging somehow. getting pounced in a bush late at night is not a fun way to go

[wooden agate]

there is an inherent problem with deino where it is an ambush hunter with limited space that doesnt offer many chances for deviation in the hunting tactic, like a herrera offers.

an omni runs away from your tree, because they know its a common herrera tree? luckily theres a mountain next to them, and you can climb.

an omni runs to your water source, drinks in the only spot that is feesibly safe from you, and then runs away to do whatever it is they do. there was nothing you could have done there to further improve your chances for success simply because this omni had been playing the game for a while. deino will fundementally almost always run out of prey (except in circumstances where prey MUST cross, like in river delta) unless a steady influx of players without the knowledge of the map continue to be fed to it

idk, the water sources need more care put into them. id even be interested in seeing a water sanitation mechanic for some of the smaller ponds in forests. keep limited safe drinking spaces with variables that still force players towards the sections where deinos may be waiting for them

[past crystal]

this could actually be a neat idea
remove permanent safe drinking spots - i.e. the rocky drinking spot in south plains, extremely shallow areas in water access..
and while removing those permanent safe spots, add temporary puddles and ponds in the game after it's rained
this would make the sniffing mechanic for water sources actually useful to a player that has memorized all the water spots in game

not as in remove the drinking spots, but remove the 'safety' bits of them

could also substantially help with the hotspot issue

[tired quest]

I just want fg deino's experience to be more relax, like it can sunbathe on the shore and waiting for its next meal
not constantly killing everything because if you miss one meal you are doomed

[past crystal]

exactly. when playing dilo, omni, etc - i can walk past a small herbivore since i don't need to kill them for food. on deino, you almost NEED to kill everything you see

[tired quest]

I mean , the dev made very nice resting animation but player will only rest in some bushes

[limber hull]

honestly still praying for a unique basking mechanic

you can't TELL me that won't be cool

[white elm]

[wooden agate]

well i had an entire thing typed up and then my wifi went out again

[tired quest]

yeah, which is weird cause they say it is a paitent ambusher

[wooden agate]

so ill just send that on my PC when the internet comes back

[limber hull]

also, stand by the idea that deino should have one of the slowest hunger drains in the game

[past crystal]

the big issue probably is that crocs in real life can last VASTLY longer without any sort of meal. crocs in game have a similar hunger drain to that of a cera

[tired quest]

irrc deino got like 1hr and 30mins hunger duration when its fg
BUT.........you can't hunt during night due to its poor NV

[limber hull]

i honestly think deino should have better NV

crocidilians have excellent NV irl and it's a hyper-opportunistic ambush hunter

[wooden agate]

this image shows specifically what i mean

if youre a maiasaura living at south pond, you literally never have to worry about deinos except for the first time you arrive. you can run over to PZ, fill up on diets/food, come back, all while keeping an eye on the beach and making sure no deinos are going to said pond.

if that pond wasnt infinite, and instead had a finite amount of clean water before it started getting meaningfully dirty, this would push you out towards the various other water sources such as SP river, west swamp, etc.

there we go

nvm its back

[tired quest]

fish distribution is a problem too
I tend to stay in the same area, and fish will suddenly a spawn in one clump.
or doesn't spawn at all

[wooden agate]

(in my head flowing sources of water such as rivers and larger bodies of water such as swamp/highlands lake/wateraccess/NE lake wouldnt get 'dirty')

[tired quest]

I don't go to south plains, normally stay along the central river and the fork plains river where the environment is much more interesting

[tired quest]

yeah, I made some suggestion in the past and ppl seems to like it too
it also help player to judge the threat level in that area
smaller deino can have a chance to avoid too

[wooden agate]

ive been wanting basking for deinosuchus (and pteranodon, actually) for quite a while

id want it for megalania as well

and quetz but quetz and pteranodon 'basking' in my head would be gliding for a bit and absorbing the heat via wings

[tired quest]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350416831709314/1343790933749268501

[wooden agate]

like a solar panel. or a sunflower

idk man theyre reptiles just let them all bask

[tired quest]

too sad player just hide in some bush or behind the rocks to gain their health back as a croc

[wooden agate]

@topaz fulcrum #general-feedback message

find a safe hidden place underwater, get full oxygen, go to safe place, and just normal log out

deino has 10 minutes of air, logout timer/consequence is 5 minutes

[tired quest]

if you got the oxygen increase mutation I beleive it will be 12-15 mins for deino to ran out of air

[wooden agate]

i thought it was only a 10% increase?

[tired quest]

sooo 11 mins?

[topaz fulcrum]

Thank you

[normal shuttle]

@torpid nest what’s the matter with ptera stamina? It is easily the best playable in the game to cover the map quickly and the stam regen is the same as gallis which is fair for no stam cost gliding

Also it is getting slipstreams anyway to ascend or move without stamina cost

[vital laurel]

@thylerwolf if you get grabbed from land you are 50% of his weight and how would you believably fight him then, maybe stego should get some counter play, maybe but overall if something 2x your size gets you in their jaws(that also kill you in 4 body shots or less) there isn’t much to do, as you said it’s an ambush, if you’re caught it’s over and learning where deinos are and signs of them are part of the game like bodies in the water, others not drinking or bodies in the water, if you’re to low water to check for deinos you’ve already went wrong

[vital laurel]

@valid brook

[urban flax]

I think the issue is that the only counterplay to deino is to never meet one

Yeah, getting out of the grab would be bs, but there should be some way to have drinking be something other than gambling

I hate gambling

[normal shuttle]

Safe drinking spots, a middle finger to deinos

[urban flax]

This is exactly what I'm talking about

[urban flax]

This

[normal shuttle]

Yup it’s really bad

Tbh I really want the deino adjustment to be good

And make it both a good playable to play as and against

Because right now it is neither

Extremely unfun to play from the perspective of a solo player when there’s no larger crocs protecting you or finding food for you because of how gateway is and the fact juveniles get ran, swam and walked down by adults 10 times their size as they are confined into relatively small spots in the map and the hotspots have the better spots taken up by croc pairs or clans

And very unfun to play against because it is no skill one button kill with the grab while you run in a straight line at someone in front of them but they cannot see anything in many cases like with the water in south river or delta because you cannot hear or see them at all. No stealth or lurking involved on their own

[urban flax]

It really needs a rework

People don't understand that a nerf can make room for other buffs

[lucid mauve]

This i very much agree on , i wanne play deino. But really hard solo, cus if you meet two. Your dead, and ur swimming sorta in a tunnel where you only meet the same. Only thing i love about grab, is that it does not care about groups. 10 dibbles, it does not care if it grabs.

[urban flax]

Deino is designed so wrong it's both boring, miserable and OP at the same time

[lucid mauve]

But what else should it have, like no way deino can be fast. So it somehow needs to kill fast

[urban flax]

Well first, grab isn't a fast way to kill, as you need to wait for the target's oxygen to be depleted
Some can even escape it

If lunge was harder to pull off, it could be made more lethal than it already is

Maybe deino could also be given more land capabilities so it's less of a one trick pony

[lucid mauve]

Yea true its not fast in that way, but even still in the water you normally can get some bites in before it enter lands. And your sorta safe from other things mauling on you.

[urban flax]

Yes, and that's why lunge could (and should) be more lethal

Some dinos can survive it, but it's useless because they still get bitten to death afterwards

It's just janky and looks stupid

But at the price of requiring more skill to perform successfully

Herrera is a good example of an ambusher being designed correctly

It's extremely lethal, but has counterplay
And the counterplay is exactly what you'd expect it to be against an ambusher : paying attention

It's fine despite herrera being able to oneshot things up to 3x its own weight

Imagine if deino could oneshot something 3x its own weight, with how lunge currently functions

I kinda agree when people say "it's stupid that something the size of stego can be completely safe even when drinking water"
Yes, nothing should be completely safe for deino, but then what they suggest and the execution is wrong

Because they ask for deino to be able to lunge them, or give them a way to kill them with no effort

But lunge is not a danger, it's certain death

And something 6ton+ drinking water should not face certain death with no counterplay

[lucid mauve]

Yea, im fine the grab itself. But it is annoying that paying attention dont help you much. But the prob for deino later could be growing/surving. Sucho bary spino etc will make it alot harder for it to grow.

[urban flax]

They won't do anything that bigger deinos don't do already

[urban flax]

@vague summit Humans can talk with monkeys ???

[vague summit]

they are in same Ceratopsidae sub-family. its like a pug and golden cant understand eachother. monkeys and humans are mammal one title.

[urban flax]

You're confusing species, subspecies and breeds

Trike and diablo are in the same family in the same way a cat and a tiger are in the same family
But they aren't the same species

Or like humans and monkeys are both primates

[vague summit]

then they should be in upfamilia which makes them more related?

[urban flax]

Idk what you mean

Also I don't see how that is related at all
Animals don't have text chat
If we wanted to be fully realistic the 1-2-3-4 calls would be the only way to communicate, even with your own species

Only some specific animals have worded language, the rest use body language and odors to communicate in a rudimentary manner

[vague summit]

unlike mammals birds can communicate with other species of bird

[urban flax]

"Communicating" is a broad word

Any animal can communicate with any other to an extent

[limber hull]

there was a proposed mutation that would allow that

but it wouldnt be a base feature

[normal shuttle]

And you know what’s the most baffling part in my opinion?

That it was even WORSE in spiro

Since in the river you had absolutely no means to hide and you were completely at the mercy of other crocs for all of your growth

And even then you had nothing you could possibly do to evade cannibals other than like existing in the swamp ig

[urban flax]

And yet in spiro you routinely had 30+ deinos on every official server whenever it was full

[normal shuttle]

@vague summit do you think you would be able to verbally communicate with a baboon or a gibbon on anything but the most basic of levels such as visual signs (that are emulated by calls and player body language anyway)?

[normal shuttle]

It was so bad. You were at their mercy and if they were cannibals there was nothing you could do, and then the overpopulation in the massive deino hive

But yeah deino badly needs something

I would say it has been consistently the worst playable in the entire game since release which is insane since evrima has been about the same time developing as legacy

Yet there were huge balance changes over the years there

[urban flax]

Worst in terms of enjoyment and interactivity
Best in terms of survivability and killing potential (bar ptera for survivability)

[normal shuttle]

Agreed

And to me enjoyment and gameplay quality is logically the most important thing

[urban flax]

That sounds logical

[normal shuttle]

Since well

It’s a damn video game. I’m here to play it

And the difference in quality between something like herra or teno compared to deino is abysmal

[urban flax]

Yeah deino is so
Well

It's just a playable environmental hazard
There's nothing else going for it

[past crystal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/401481371249541120/1348948607058841640
@vague summit bad for many reasons
can result in more mixpacking, or a trike could lure in a dibble thinking it's safe and then kill them easily

[normal shuttle]

Unless the rework is really good and younger crocs are viable, I don’t think I’m ever touching deino again.

Tried it three times. Once in update 3 where I got walked down by a full adult croc that didn’t even bother to W shift after biting me once and I ran for my life as a 3-4 ton croc

Then in gateway recently a croc logged in in the pond I was in and I got walked down again but this time when I had a 100 meter headstart

And the third try was me hitting 60% or so after spending hours alone in water access avoiding everyone and eating elite fish or random juvenile deinos

This thing sucks so much

[past crystal]

i sent a suggestion a long while ago for crocs to have faster speed as juvis than adult, because it's almost impossible to survive when a 100% deino can just camp an area. no other species has problems like this

[normal shuttle]

I said the same

And I am shocked that in almost 4 years they didn’t do anything about it

[urban flax]

I've tried growing a deino only once, on spiro
I chose to grow in a remote corner of the map, feeding off fish and pteras

I logged off after about 3 hours and never touched deino again, watching paint dry would have been less boring

[past crystal]

https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/778350260027129865/1339573504940703745

[normal shuttle]

Younger crocs, even those with 4 hours, are completely helpless against their adult counterparts

And unlike cera, you cannot really hide in many places

[white elm]

Good and fun gameplay

[normal shuttle]

Unless it is water access and highlands lake. And I manage to survive there with guess what

The surface visibility exploit

Otherwise I would have ran into other crocs so often for sure

Deino was only consistent survival to me hiding in one single lake cannibalizing my own and using glitches

That should speak for itself

[past crystal]

crocs have so many issues

1. underwater vision
2. fish ai spawn issues
3. bigger crocs can always catch you
4. some spawns are much more difficult than other spawns - North Lake....
5. crocs depend on snatching players as early as 50%, however when all players know how to avoid crocs, this becomes a huge issue
6. half of croc's playable area, the swamp, is completely useless for them

[normal shuttle]

😭 crocodiles are cool but they did this so dirty since the very beginning. It’s just a nice gleaming gift box that hides a fetid, stinky mass of sludge inside

[white elm]

I hope the addition of other semis fixes this somehow

[past crystal]

for sure. the only other semi is beipi, and that gives croc 0 hunger

bary and austro will hopefully give croc something more to eat

[normal shuttle]

And also the hotspots are often disconnected. Like south river is where you get the most food, or west rail pond, but good luck getting there and hoping that after almost 2 hours swimming you don’t walk RIGHT INTO an enclosed area with 2 crocs

Such a fun and rewarding gameplay

[past crystal]

this! hotspots are an EXTREME issue
i thought of this earlier https://discordapp.com/channels/401464048610312193/423939730544132096/1348907289368854539

[normal shuttle]

I seriously don’t know who could ever have fun as deino or think it’s a good playable other than clan kids with the other 3 crocs babysitting them

Like if you’re a solo player as a deino you gotta eat other crocs as 90% of your diet as an adult or die

Because you risk running into groups and you’re at their mercy if you go to a place like south plains or highlands lake where there is no way you can escape them

You are trapped and die there for wanting to play the croc. So good

[white elm]

Spino will seemingly be a dedicated hunter of adult Deinos, so MAYBE that will make it easier for young deinos to grow?

[past crystal]

maybe, it will likely target baby crocs as well

[normal shuttle]

Unless they completely overhaul deino, the addition of more semis like spino or bary is just gonna be (at least how I see it as a solo player who also cares about viability and balance, and I don’t want my time wasted) being given an option to play something somewhat similar to deino but actually viable and that won’t die unfairly to things it cannot escape or fight against

Or starve to death helplessly because no fish

[white elm]

😔

[normal shuttle]

Like seriously

Why would I play deino if I get something like bary

[past crystal]

just had the thought in my head pop up that "the map is too small for water playables" - especially since the ocean isn't viable with lack of ai or players

[normal shuttle]

Even if bary is dibble speed in land and teno or maia fast in the water, that is far less miserable than deino

[past crystal]

bary 100% needs to outpace a maia in the water

[normal shuttle]

Its also how the spots everyone frequents are bodies of water that are disconnected from the main water access, delta and swamp waterway

[past crystal]

maia's swim speed needs to be nerfed, though

exactly

[white elm]

Completely destroy its swim speed, but DO NOT touch anything about its land combat

[past crystal]

but going to those spots is a gamble, too. no idea if people that day will go near that area. so it's usually safer to stay in delta, or try to get to west rail / SP

[normal shuttle]

It can dive though. If it had the current maia speed plus diving plus reasonable stam drain it would do fine even with that

[woeful latch]

here’s my opinion, deino should not be able to see anything above the water when it’s under the water, and when it’s above the water it should not be able to see under.

why?

hmm… meaw meow

[past crystal]

oh maia's fine in any other regard, its swim speed just doesnt make sense

i'm sure it's very buoyant, but it should NOT outswim teno

[normal shuttle]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-mmm-cheesy-cheese-cheesy-gif-19257011

[past crystal]

no way that post wasnt ragebait

[woeful latch]

yes, thank you

[white elm]

Give Teno dive too while we're at it

[past crystal]

what would it dive for?

[normal shuttle]

#general-feedback message @topaz fulcrum call me crazy, but did you at least try to like wait until the omni was gone or simply go elsewhere to log? Imagine having any semblance of strategic thinking

[woeful latch]

i honestly don’t think it needs a dive now, because there’s no underwater food for it

[frank tapir]

aquatic plants 🤞

[woeful latch]

but maybe later, when they add minmi and stuff

they just need to swap maia and teno swimming speed

[white elm]

Nah, Maia's swimming speed should be worse

I'll sacrifice anything as long as Maia continues to play how it does in the ht right now

[normal shuttle]

That juvenile speed tho

[past crystal]

i wouldn't expect any sort of aquatic plants to be added until deinocherius is released

[normal shuttle]

Slower than cera until 60% or so

[woeful latch]

i think i know what they’re doing

[white elm]

Juvenile speed is fine, sub adult should be way faster tho

[normal shuttle]

Minmi

[past crystal]

devs seem to be messing with many dino's speeds right now

[normal shuttle]

Troodon…it’s actually troover

Unless they massively buff troodon in other regards or we get sanc food for carnivores

And by massively I mean truly a lot

Right now it gets ran down and destroyed by chicken

In the HT

[past crystal]

it was already hard to keep it alive as a juvi..

[normal shuttle]

And it cannot keep up with anything other than some random fawn stuck in a hill

[woeful latch]

i think they will expand the sanctuaries and make like a juvie only ecosystem. so you stay there for a while. that’s why we’re getting all those nerfs.

(i think)

[normal shuttle]

They buried it

[white elm]

Pretty stupid

[normal shuttle]

For an animal that relies on running to escape most stuff, absolutely

[white elm]

Like Maia should gain the speed to outrun cera at 30% or so, not 60%

Why would I waste my time getting halfway grown when a cera can just decide I'm dead if it sees me? Can't run, can't fight

[woeful latch]

BUT, it’s another example of a nerf without them actually releasing a mechanic that should come with the nerf.

that’s honestly so annoying, when they rebalance stuff they should do it in one patch, not nerf a playable now and then wait for months to release a mechanic

[normal shuttle]

Nerfing underperforming playables in HT while buffing dilo and leaving cera as it is…

I love dying as a herra after a dilo bites me once, I am in orange and as I am resting at a tree branch 20 meters above the ground a clone falls into my branch and bites me

And to think I used to adore dilo once upon a time

[past crystal]

part of me panics and thinks of overwatch and their devs

devs that don't play the game and thus can't accurately determine balance

[normal shuttle]

But Dondi does play the isle

[limber hull]

maia's adult state is... so good tho

[normal shuttle]

Like genuinely, he does play the game and grows the animals

[white elm]

Seeing people say yes to "are Dilo clones fixed on HT" is heartbreaking

They may be "fixed" but they are not, and will never be, fixed unless they get a complete rework

[normal shuttle]

But tbh I’ve only seen him playing dibble so far-

[woeful latch]

i don’t think nerfing the juvie stage should justify how strong playable in its adult stage

[normal shuttle]

Nothing about troo

[white elm]

God Dilo sucks

#1 most overpowered playable in the game no contest

[woeful latch]

like for me it doesn’t matter how hard they might make cera to grow, it will still remain the current cera.

[woeful latch]

i don’t remember if i mentioned this, but they made dilo op on purpose in legacy too

[normal shuttle]

“Fixed”

Killing a teno in two bites

💔 I hate this community and dilo crutchers above everything

Like listen, I used to play dilo in no alt turn servers and I did tail ride Rexes and Allos to death, but at least that required active effort of my own instead of just RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB RMB

From a mile away

Omni players are bad too

But my god the dilos in evrima

[woeful latch]

legacy dilo was funny.

best nv in the game, it could heal in 4 minutes from 0 to 100%. you needed to bite rex like 10-13 times to bleed it out… lovely

[past crystal]

if they buffed the clones, they need to nerf the bleeding bite

[white elm]

If troo players had their way they'd be killing a Teno in two bites too let's be honest

[woeful latch]

for comparison utah was healing 5% every minute, dilo was healing 25% lmao

[untold geyser]

I could not care less about the bleeding, make the venom more interactive PLEASE

[normal shuttle]

It wasn’t overpowered in legacy, let alone with alt turn which is a thing intended in officials. It could lose the trade with anything above Utah size and it was relatively lacking in agility to the point where it was an easy picking for anyone during daytime. And then at day they can’t do anything if you use terrain.

Also it was super fragile and had very bad bleed resistance

[white elm]

If I had to rank the most problematic playables right now it would be

1. Dilo
2. Cera
3. HEAR ME OUT... Omni

[normal shuttle]

As in problematic for others ig

[white elm]

Yea

Although Omni is also up there in "problematic to play as"

[normal shuttle]

I would say dilo is the biggest offender although omni, troo and deino need help to also not be miserable to play as

And then I 110% believe cera will be less of a problem when charged bite is addressed so it is not a primary attack and then other large carnivores show up so the Timmies can go elsewhere to play the big bad apex carnivore instead of the inherently easy scavenger

[valid brook]

as more and more people continue to say the same thing, im thinking my explanation was poor, but what im looking for isnt necessarily for deinos to be outright nerfed. What im looking for is more interaction between players. any other 2 combinations of players that meet in the game can have some type of interaction where both parties get a say, even for most other ambushes. deino is the only one in the game that removes all interaction from the other player leaving most to out right avoid interactions with deinos as a playable. If you are attempting to outright avoid a certain species, especially the most heavily played one, then you are limiting the amount of people you are attempting to see and making the word feel emptier for both you and that other species. and thats another thing. In theory, huge sections of the map are locked off from being played because people dont wish to simply lose 2-6 hours of their life just because they drank at the "wrong spot". If instead you had a say in an interaction with a deino other than "nah im not interacting with them" players may feel better exploring the world or living in different locations rather than building whole kits to avoid the ordeal. some people are going to avoid players anyways, and thats fine, i dont know what you play, but if its something that is 1 shot by a deino, either by bite or grab, do you find yourself seeking to interact with deinos? or do you find yourself going to all of the "safe spots" to drinks to avoid said interaction? that question is what i want removed. i dont want the question of "should i bother risking everything to a deino. or should i just go to the safe spot?"

[urban flax]

@atomic obsidian "Juvie" is everything that has to be said

Apexes are designed to be weak and vulnerable while juvies, while being very strong once adult

[foggy field]

Also trike kit is not even completed

If that trikes had sparring, the fight would have been way diferent

[normal shuttle]

@atomic obsidian not only those are juveniles, but also there should be wiggle room for skill expression and a better player should always stand a chance, even in evrima where matchups matter a lot more than your skill compared to legacy. On top of that trike does not have the sparring yet and its stats aren’t final.

And honestly I feel like that definition of apex is rather shaky, since they absolutely should have their own tough matchups and be pressured somehow even as adults. Apex is not necessarily unstoppable, but more so vastly superior in terms of numbers

Trike very much is an apex being able to knock over adult stegos and killing them in 5-6 good hits to the head

[covert tiger]

@atomic obsidian apexes should be easy food for everything until they actually become apexes. A young trike isn't an apex, an adult / full grown trike is.
Also, that trike in the video is unskilled and didn't know how to defend itself as well as it could have.

[normal shuttle]

ALSO WHAT

I just watched the video and the first part is a sanctuary brawl????? Lmao what kind of evidence is that? 20 minutes later those trikes would be unstoppable for the dibbles

[covert tiger]

Nothing would ever want to interact with a massive croc though, nor would a croc want to interact with anything else.
There's no tools or methods you can add to increase their interactability without taking the essence of being a croc away.
I would say you're basically indirectly advocating for deino's removal, as its presence in the game limits interaction.
You forget some ppl may just prefer that silent solo lifestyle though

[valid brook]

Interaction doesnt have to be positive. it could be a fight. it could be an altercation or a scuffle. or even a game of cat and mouse. ect

[vital laurel]

Well I mean, herra would then have this issue too, and carno to an extent, you can’t rly interact with either of them as a small dino, it’s just run away from them

[covert tiger]

I think it's too much to ask of a deino, which is already a struggling opportunistic hunter, to have it's hunt success chance be reduced

And yeah herra kinda has the same experience

[thick summit]

Herrera can move around the map without any restrictions

[valid brook]

well with herrera you can still notice and avoid them, or they can hunt you on land, or, if yer just big enough, you can fight back in attempt to kill them before needing to rest.

and carno, being hunted is an interaction where your choices could possibly matter. you have the ability in most cases to see a carno running at you well before they get to you. obviously every scenario is different

however with deino, the interaction is a game of "avoid them POSSIBLY being here, or risk insta death"

[normal shuttle]

I love deino