suggestion-discussion

[languid ibex]

Yeah, not to say what I brought up are even massive issues, but just concerns I would have. There are plenty of examples where it works though! I could see having the ability to carry one pouch that are for specific things, where foraging for berries/mushrooms would all automatically store in that pouch, where nothing else could be. Things like that are definitely not problematic, just cause for concern with how it's implemented.

[eternal storm]

Actually I wasn't disagreeing, the more I think about It the more issues I see

[languid ibex]

Oh I was just clarifying my stance a bit more that's all.

[languid ibex]

There's just one problem, spears aren't polearms, and polearms aren't spears.

2h sword are swords, as are 1h swords.

[light fractal]

Spears do have a distinct function compared to other melee weapons. They can be thrown. I kind of agree that spears and polearms are too specific for melee skills and should be fused, but what I said should be considered too.

[languid ibex]

So fuse the skills just so they're fused? Versatility isn't exactly inherent with the skill layout, it's definitely more defined by weapon type.

[lament zinc]

Easiest solution: Merge all weapons in three classes:

1. Melee. Includes all axes, hammers, swords, spears, atgeirs, fist weapons, dual wield weapons and knifes.
2. Ranged. Includes all bows and X-bows.
3. Magic. Speaks for itself.

Problem solved.

[mellow pawn]

They *are * different types of weapons in regards to the the game. Two handed swords work in the game very similar to normal swords, but bigger. Atgeirs and spears are used in the game very different ways.

[lament zinc]

That's because Valheim is a game, not a Viking Afterlife simulation.

There are more things that are near perfect.
Think of how the Ballista and the Battering Ram work.
Catapult is another thing that comes to mind.
Ships is another thing. Somehow they always draft against the wind, instead of with the wind, the moment the wind comes from the side.

To me it's what makes Valheim enjoyable.

If I want some realism in a game, I try Deliverance: Kingdome Come again.

So?

Because I don't see the problem.
And many with me.

Again: So?

You want me to be impressed?

I don't see the need for it.
I also don't see the need to enter Reddit.

Ah.

When someone disagrees with you, it's calling names.

OK. Bye!

[swift dagger]

Quick question: does this ♻️ mean the idea has been suggested before?^^

Thanks 🙂

Cool. Is there a way to check if something has been suggested already?

[mellow pawn]

But why group spears and polearms under the same skill? Do you think visual similarity is enough reason?

[mellow pawn]

I find this hard to grasp, because in my mind spears and polearms in valheim have very little to do with each other, which would make grouping them under the same skill odd. It would like like knives and sword having the same skill. Do you think the current skills would make more sense
if there was a two handed spears included in under the spear skill? (or under polearms)

More speciality for two handed swords, axes and clubs might be really cool. And considering were gaps in the weapons progression are would make sense. I personally feel that there is no need to develop polearm skill in meadows, and it is fine to be introduced in the black forest.

[mellow pawn]

I disagree with your assessment, there is no inconsistency. Just because there are some two handed weapons under the same skills as their names would imply, does not mean that polearms and spears have a missing connection. Knives don't have two handed versions and that's just fine.

And to be clear, I don't really care if two handed weapons are under same skill as their one handed counterparts. It does make sense in it's own way. Grouping spears and polearms does not make sense in my opinion. They function as different, distinct weapons groups apart from each other.

[hushed ledge]

What about on mobile 📱

[wet drift]

I'm pretty sure spear is a polearm.

Pole arm.
Long stick weapon.

[languid ibex]

A spear is a polearm, but they function differently enough to warrant a distinction within the skills. It'd be like adding a Katana to the game, it'd have different stamina balancing, attack speed, etc. If it were to inherit skills from the sword category, players wouldn't feel much progression with their new weapon, or the bonuses from high skill could be too little or too much.

I don't think Lightbringer is looking much further than players agreeing and it making sense without considering deeper balancing elements.

[lofty field]

Not disagreeing, but some skill groups feel arbitrary. Sword and axes are one thing, but 1h and 2h clubs are at least as different as spears and polearms imo

[subtle depot]

What we have can be argued to be a javelin and spear hybrid instead of strictly a spear.
Its short, made for one handed use and throwability

A propper main weapon spear would be longer, weilded in one or two hands depending on if you have a shield, and the stance would be similar to that seen when using the polearms.

My point being, the current spears are actually javelins. Javelins are quite different to fight with compared to polearms and spears, which are quite similar.

[late sleet]

tbh yeah melee weapon skills should be fused

like the difference between the Silver sword (two edges, pointy) and the Black metal sword (1 edge, slashy) is likely bigger than some of the skill categories we have

[meager wave]

Technically speaking you could merge them seeing as a spear is a type of polearm, however the spears in game are used in a vastly different capacity than the polearms in game. The way it is now is fine

And since they are used in a vastly different capacity you would need different skills to wield each

[late sleet]

this argument breaks down when 1h clubs and 2h clubs are the same skill

[meager wave]

You could also say you don’t even need a club skill

[stiff stag]

A 1 handed axe and a 2 handed axe are extremely similar and are both still axes, not entirely different weapons, same with swords. A spear and an atgeir are 2 very different weapons beyond the surface level aspect of both being attached to poles. Clubs are the only one that are currently off since the 2 handed versions are more like mallets/hammers and are used much differently from clubs/maces. So if anything, clubs would more likely be split into 2 categories, not atgeirs and spears being combined.

[potent rivet]

It would be great if we could use the stone portals to transport carts

[stark furnace]

Even silver sword and blackmetal sword will operate differently

[sick breach]

Dont two handed axes have wildly different primary and secondary attacks? Or has that changed in the combat update?

[stark furnace]

compared to 1h axes? yea

tbh i'd much rather see a more extensive rework to the skills system then this topic

[sick breach]

I like the reasoning behind grouping polearms and spears together, in that while every other melee weapon type can start being trained in meadows polearm can't, and this would remove that discrepancy. Would also technically make polearms the most widely represented weapon on the tech tree.

The difference between the spear and the atgeir in use is just as dramatic as the difference between 1 handed and 2 handed clubs/axes, its weird to group the skills for the latter weapons under 1 umbrella and not the former.

[stark furnace]

oh and then there's also bzerker axes completely different moveset from battleaxes

[stiff stag]

I'll just take the L on this one. My reasoning is clearly off, however there is some reason unbeknownst to us for why spears and atgeirs are treated differently and I'm more curious on what that is specifically. If there was no reason to it then they wouldn't have been treated differently to begin with.

[hybrid gull]

The inconsistency is mainly born from the latest big updates (mistlands and ashlands) and the choices made there: the content is cool and it works for each single biome, but it strays too much from the initial and perhaps naive thought that things won't change too much.
I'd say that once Deep North comes out and we have the full picture of what weapons we have available it's time to talk balancing once again, because there's no way any dev could have thought so far ahead when the game just started out.

I'd also lean more towards grouping polearms and spears into one, given we have sword + broadswords and axes + battleaxes

the only reason I could think of why this happened is to prevent players from having to learn a new skill from the ground up late game, when enemies are tough. I'm not saying it's inherently bad, but players are incentivized to stick with the weapons they've been using since the early biomes instead of going for the new, shiny weapon you need to get good at before using efficiently in combat if you separate swords / broadswords and axes / battleaxes

[languid ibex]

The answers as to why it's setup this way is within the weapons themselves tbh, the drastic differences in attack speed, stamina drain and experience gain point to different usage models for spears and polearms. Spears are meant to hit a lot, with more strikes but initially quite weak. This levels up faster than most to reveal their strength lies in a much higher level. Atgeir is not balanced like this, and the slower attack speed, crowd control elements, and inherent damage boost from stagger requires very little from the skill system to utilize. If this logic being presented were sound, we would just have a magic staff skill that encompasses all magic. There is something to be said for gaining skill and feeling the gains. Spears accentuate this, while Polearms err on the immediately reliable weapon side of things, with less emphasis on skill level.

Not to mention the very obvious difference of a ranged optional weapon compared to a solely close combat weapon. Making it possible to train Atgeir with throwing a spear over and over. That'd be silly and shouldn't net skill.

[cursive forge]

seems like a lot of talking for something that is not that deep

[stone citrus]

I'd much rather 1h and 2h skills
No longer "locked" to one weapon type
Especially when you don't know what comes up next

1H
2H
Ranged
.... Magic... 🤔 I kinda like that one split, but it still sucks

[late sleet]

ngl I think the devs did it all by vibes 7 years ago

[stone citrus]

I couldn't agree more

Nothing wrong with that of course (at the time)

[subtle depot]

Yet, there is a pretty big difference in attack speed, damage and effective xp gained per enemy in both 1 vs 2handed swords, axes and clubs.

For the purpose of power leveling, the point about stamina is moot because the tier of the weapon has a lot more to say than the 1 vs 2handed aspect.

[languid ibex]

The xp gained is the same for sword/axes/clubs, because they're in the same skill group. Spears are massively accelerated because of their attack speed, and +0.75 experience gained per hit. Not only are spears hitting 0.2 seconds faster than the first two Atgeir hits, Atgeir's primary combo's 3rd is 1.28 seconds. Meaning in the spear can make roughly 4 hits in the time a polearm makes 3, and it gains more experience per hit. In that timeframe the polearm gains 4.5 experience, where the spear gains 9 experience, with some time to spare. This just isn't the case for swords/axes/clubs, and none of these weapons are leaning on skill gain to shine.

[languid ibex]

It's a discussion channel, things are discussed, no need to be reductive. You could also say less, but you didn't.

[hybrid gull]

so the question is more: why did the spear get such special treatment? It could make sense if the extra exp was given to you only when you used the secondary attack because it takes a bit of skill to get the trajectory right, but normal attacks have nothing special and it's not like it's that hard to hit enemies with it, at least not anymore.
The spear's extra exp gain is mostly a remnant of pre-Call to Arms update to compensate for the bad hit detection, not because the spear is special in any way, and I believe this should be changed to reflect the changes.

And honestly, I don't even see much reason to give the spear's secondary attack any extra exp anyway, because the same reasoning can be applied to crude bows (which suck)

[languid ibex]

It's not that confusing, spears have lower damage output but gain more with extended usage.

[hybrid gull]

again, why

why would spears gain more damage than other weapons when you get good at it?

[languid ibex]

Because they weren't designed with a combo, they're a ranged optional weapon with more rapid close combat.

[hybrid gull]

they should be treated like bows, then

[languid ibex]

They don't gain more damage, they need that skill level boost to attain a similar damage output.

It'd also make zero sense for someone exclusively throwing their spears to have skill gains with polearms, a weapon you can't throw.

[hybrid gull]

sometimes I wonder if you're trolling me or not, because you just said "they don't gain more damage, they gain more damage to be viable", which is a problem easily solved by changing the base damage

[languid ibex]

It's not a problem, it's another approach.

[hybrid gull]

don't gloss over the fact you're spouting sophistry

[languid ibex]

I'm unsure why you're mad when I'm just outlining why the stats do what they do.

[hybrid gull]

and if the spears are treated like bows, then yes, I agree they don't have to be merged with polearms

now I remember why I had you blocked, yeah

[languid ibex]

Alright, I suppose you're just hearing my context as speaking down to you or something.

That can't be helped sometimes. 🤷‍♂️

[hybrid gull]

at this point it would be better to just leave spears with their secondary attack, no primary. That way the polearms/spear debate is settled for good, and the extra exp the spear already gets makes more sense

because you already did the math, and the spear is quite broken exp-wise

so it needs to have some disadvantage, like only being able to throw it and let yourself vulnerable to attacks while you retrieve it

[languid ibex]

It's not broken though, it's weaker, less damage and less stagger. Not to mention less AoE. It passes a threshold after a degree of upgrading where it becomes on par with something like a polearm, though most would argue not even then.

It could be said that it's a opposite style of polearms as well, where spears aren't going to do much crowd control other than raw DPS, polearms offer potentially the best crowd control in the game.

[hybrid gull]

the "it's weaker" argument holds no ground, because I just compared all the bronze weapons and the atgeir comes on top of everything else, which in turn means the spear is on par with the mace, the sword and it's very close to both the axe and the finewood bow

[languid ibex]

I'm unsure of the relevance where spears going into polearms skill group matters.

[hybrid gull]

because I didn't touch that subject at all with my statement

I'm just saying that arguing that the spear is "weak" is not a valid argument

[languid ibex]

You've reiterated this multiple times, it's not the qualifying marker.

Weapons with decidedly different balances within the skills themselves are seperated intentionally.

[hybrid gull]

I think it's fair to keep polearms and spears divided, but only if the spear loses its melee attack

[languid ibex]

There's not broad magic staff skill, there's elemental magic and blood magic.

Yeah, it's just that you're just doing the math with face value information.

I hold spear like atgeir =/= it should be the same skill. No one should be able to level up atgeir skill while only throwing spears.

[hybrid gull]

yeah, considering the fact spears level up much faster, it's actually a strong weapon

[hybrid gull]

and I agree with that

but only if you remove the primary attack from the spear OR reduce the exp gained with spears

[languid ibex]

They aren't, they're balanced within the same skill gains. This includes original damage output, attack speed, and stamina usage.

[hybrid gull]

there is a reason why speedrunners go for the spear first and foremost, because it's broken

[languid ibex]

It's all considered differently and works well even at level 0. This isn't the case for spears/polearms. Spears have a different balance where skill gain is considered.

[hybrid gull]

then why is the atgeir, a much slower weapon, not getting extra exp for each enemy you hit with your secondary?

[languid ibex]

I'm raising so many more points than their special attacks 🙁

[languid ibex]

I just mentioned, it's balanced to be strong even at level 0, and the attacks benefit in other ways, like stagger/crowd control. Spear doesn't have these benefits.

[hybrid gull]

and the debate between 1h/2h weapons can't even be defended in any way: how would swinging a one-handed axe make me better at swinging an humongous battleaxe?

[languid ibex]

They are, and just ignoring blatant differences in things effected by skills, and experience gained should speak to the choices behind them, not how many hands are on the weapons or what appears to break any logic.

[hybrid gull]

you're just sticking to what's in the game for the sake of defending the game

[languid ibex]

Because they utilize the same damage.

[hybrid gull]

the same damage type?

pretty sure axes and battleaxes don't deal the same amount of damage

[languid ibex]

A blade on a stick in the same place but bigger is effectively going to inherit a degree of skill.

[languid ibex]

It's just laid out plain as day, the stats aren't randomized.

[hybrid gull]

you should justify why 1h and 2h weapons are grouped together, not why polearms and spears shouldn't be grouped together, because the latter is just a "if... then..."

[languid ibex]

I have done this, twice.

[hybrid gull]

and as far as logic goes, you've proved nothing

[languid ibex]

They're literally balanced within this skill group, these weapons are considered in the same skill group from their very conception, and thus balanced for the degree of gains they attain. Spears are an outlier, not an indicator, because they utilize the skill system in a different way.

Right, you're still just spouting the same, this is how real life is arguements, when it's a skill system balanced in a video game, and there are rules that can't be 1:1 with real life every time.

You definitely just linked me to a swords wiki.

[hybrid gull]

it's not even about realism, it's about definitions

[languid ibex]

Of real life objects?

[hybrid gull]

and you're still just defending the game because it's been like this since it came out, not because it's objectively correct

[languid ibex]

Yeah, that's a crazy argument... art is up to the artist.

[hybrid gull]

as far as I could see, you've only changed subject or didn't get the point of what's being discussed

yeah, exactly, thanks for proving my point

[languid ibex]

Oh boy, this is going absolutely no where. I tried showcasing why they've chosen to do this specifically, but you're too entrenched in how it should be in your eyes.

[hybrid gull]

and you failed, yes

[languid ibex]

You literally just agreed with me multiple times but alright.

[hybrid gull]

this shows your poor reading comprehension

I did agree with certain things, given certain conditions were met

I didn't just agree with everything you've said, quite the opposite, actually

[languid ibex]

Yeah this is getting into mudslinging territory, I'm going to back out, please reference in-game stats should you continue to be confused as to why they're in different skill groupings. Swords is just a category decided by the devs, and doesn't inherently fall into being defined by some random wikipedia. Cheers

[hybrid gull]

if only there was some person who worked on the system that could clarify what the actual objectives of the current skills system is...

mine was mostly sarcasm. I understand you can't possibly predict where your game will be in 5 years time. I mean that devs do look at chats and could chime in to at least give some tiny detail about what they wanted to achieve

because having certain users trying to make arguments without making arguments doesn't really help

anyone could defend the game with any kind of "it is what it is" kind of argument

heck, I'd even be happy if they told us "look, we didn't really think about it. Maybe we'll try to rework the system, but no promises"

it's just a matter of transparency, a matter of identifying the goal... because otherwise we're just wasting time

what's a discussion even for if the result of said discussion is inconsequential?

[stiff stag]

Yeah, there's no longer any worth discussing with them at this point, especially when they've convinced themselves that the developers don't know what they're doing, or that they are somehow still right when hardly anyone is in support of the failing idea. You really can't make this stuff up.

[hybrid gull]

I mean, do you guys actually know what the devs wanted? Aren't you assuming? Wow, how can anyone NOT trust you?

and maybe I am missing something and you've got it right, but quite frankly it doesn't seem obvious, which is in itself a problem that needs addressing nonetheless on the devs' side

or we can keep the "it's our game, we do whatever the hell we want with it" vibe, sure

at which point I can leave the server and just play the game instead of trying to improve it

I wouldn't generalize too much, because it's just a few regulars who keep discussing stuff in here anyway. It's just that those few regulars don't really do a good job at making actual discussion happen

moderators aren't supposed to stop discussion from happening, nor it's their job to judge the validity of a discussion, though

as long as we don't insult each other and respect the rules, they have nothing to do here

amount of likes/dislikes doesn't even matter on the dev side

those numbers by themselves is sort of the "discussion" the devs look at, I assume, just to probe what the community thinks of it

they can always just accept a very disliked suggestion if it's something that aligns with their view

[stark furnace]

🔮

[subtle depot]

If you actually played with twohanded swords, you would know they level significantly slower than one handed swords in practical application. Both in regular play and in power leveling.

In regular play, you earn less because you tend to oneshot/twoshot creatures, instead of needing 2-3 hits

In power leveling you use 2x more stamina, and thus have to wait much longer.

[cursive forge]

It’s not that deep

[languid ibex]

Yeah you missed the bit where I explained that they're balanced within the swords skill, just assuming I have never used them is crazy.

[languid ibex]

Alright champ it'll be okay.

[subtle depot]

So, twohanded swords leveling much slower than onehanded swords is not a problem

But spears and polearms cant be in the same skill because they level so differently?

Do you see where this breaks down?

[late sleet]

how is this discussion still ongoing
@languid ibex why'd you super react LMAO

[minor scarab]

I think the bears should try and get into the base to steal your honey and fish. if they don't already do that, I'm not sure what the bear necessities are for the bears but maybe that could be a update. Bears killing you is bearly entertaining enough

[late sleet]

lmao i love this
just came back from a trip to some national parks where everything was built around preventing bear entry
the equivalent of having to put reinforced iron chests outside your base because they'll get attacked by night spawning bears and at least then they won't knock your walls down

there's no right answer because the question is subjective
at extremes, either every single weapon in the game must have its own skill, or all melee is one skill
so the devs do it by vibes and there's internal inconsistency 🤷‍♂️

either way this is the coughing baby next to the hydrogen bomb that is actual skill scaling lmfao

[minor scarab]

https://youtu.be/H6_YpVBzqNw?si=fvLwq9NG4JNfFNhP This is what I want to walk into when I come from a journey far north

[lament zinc]

I had made that decision already yesterday.

The moment someone starts insulting somebody else in a discussion you know it's a lost cause.

Simply because there's the "I am right and you all are wrong and I won't change my mind" attitude you don't want in a discussion forum. Which usually ends in the earlier mentioned insulting of the other discussion partners.

[late sleet]

inconsistency isn't like an existential threat, it's more a quirk 🤷‍♂️

skill scaling may be an existential threat

running is a complete activity with one skill, swinging melee weapons could be another

I haven't seen people complain about run/jump much even though they scale as hard as weapons

[lament zinc]

@late sleet Since you posted that mirror:

What do you think of this?
*
#suggestion-discussion message

Typical "don't change anything, let everything remain as they are" guy

Or this:

#suggestion-discussion message

Touch a glass cyberbully *

Are you telling me that these are normal reactions in a discussion when someone disagrees with you?

[late sleet]

bruh I'm not a moderator

[lament zinc]

I'm aware of that.

However, if your intention is to tell me that I should look into the mirror, I'm not the one insulting others.
Which is exactly what I was posting.

You may have missed the discussion last night, which is something I can understand. But you're misjudging a situation based upon one post.

Kiddo, grow up.

You're the one insulting others.
You're the one throwing a tauntrum when others disagree with you.

If you don't like that, go back to Reddit where people like you obviously seem to belong.
And stop wasting the time of those who've got actual brains, try to discuss things with reason and above all, do not insult others.

[late sleet]

see this is why i mirror reacted
uh have fun yall i'll be back to talk about the game

[hybrid gull]

you guys should take it to your DMs if that's what you wanna discuss

[languid ibex]

It doesn't break down? It's exactly that and it's fine. 1h swords aren't built around faster experience gain, and 2h swords have enough damage gain and AoE to go without faster experience gain. I am done reiterating this point though, I hope the best for anyone having difficulty with this.

[cursive forge]

you keep brining up reddit like its this iron fist that stops people from being able to say anything bad about you

[trail thorn]

💡 No Map is awesome, but Vegvisir feels off..

*I have posted this at reddit valheim. But i still don't see any changes made for this mode, so i'm trying it here. *

The No Map function gave me a feeling I never had in any other game. That real sense of danger, where you have to rely on your memory to know where you are and where your base is. Super cool.

But with the Vegvisir it feels kinda incomplete. Underground Vegvisirs don’t seem to work, and having to use a hammer or workbench for it just makes no sense. It breaks the immersion and feels a bit broken. Because of that, some of my friends gave up on No Map and I get why.

I’ve been thinking of ways it could work better. For example:

Maybe when you find a Vegvisir you could break off a small stone from it. Then, when you use that stone, it points you in the right direction. Not like a normal compass, but more like pulling your camera toward the boss.

Or the stone could summon a raven that flies in the right direction. That would also fit well with the world of Valheim.
There are other great suggestions in this reddit topic.
https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1mvayvv/no_map_is_awesome_but_vegvisir_feels_off_ideas

[languid ibex]

Oh I think you meant to post this in #suggestions

[stone citrus]

🪞 🔮 - Rep 📉

[hybrid gull]

gotta say, I quite like the idea you can break off a piece of it and use it around. Though I think that's most likely not happening

to be completely fair, the most unobtrusive thing would be to just give burial chambers, crypts, mines, etc... the same orientation as their entrace, since that's the most natural thing you'd expect to happen, if we're talking immersion

or... much like how ender pearls work in minecraft, each item needed as sacrifice for a boss could act like a sort of sensor, much like the wishbone does, but I'm unsure of the scale of its effect: boss altars are pretty far apart, and you'd need to travel a considerable distance anyway before getting any meaningful reaction from the items, at which point you're probably disorientated already

mobs from a boss raid could spawn from the direction of the closest boss summoning them: this would work as incentive to build proper houses a bit everywhere, much like how you can find a bunch of ruined houses in each biome (thus adding to the lore)

if it wasn't you can toggle the map on/off from server settings, you could make it so all boss locations have a vegvisir to the next boss, which would then force you to adopt the nomad lifestyle and build a bit everywhere (and it wouldn't really ensure you get there in one piece anyway, since they're far apart and the chances of getting lost are high)

@trail thorn if you wanna add my ideas to the post or whatever (I don't have reddit), here's the condensed version:

• just simply fix dungeon orientation to be consistent with its entrance
• give sacrificial items for each boss some compass-like property (like, if you dropped one on the ground, it would ever so slightly move towards the boss)
• have specific boss raid mobs spawn from the direction of the nearest boss altar
• if they block the NoMap option from being changed after world generation, each boss altar could have a vegvisir towards the next boss, like how we get one for Eikthyr

[ashen tinsel]

Alternatively there's already a ping system, could just make said boss items ping the relevant location in the distance

[random monolith]

After reading chat I feel like there are no good guys in this spear/polearm argument

Just angry people and people who left the conversation

[cursive forge]

Welcome to this "Not toxic" discord

[languid ibex]

I left because suddenly I was being told I had poor reading comprehension. It seemed people were getting heated while wanting to be correct rather than try and understand each other's perspective.

[meager wave]

At this point the argument needs to be dropped, they have made their points and the devs have made their choices. It’s their choice wether or not to make changes to the skills

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I agree, it's just a shame that the discussion devolves so quickly. It's an interesting topic, but gets so tired when the same points are made over and over. Sure it's arguably an inconsistency within skills, but the usage differences highlight exactly why. Pointing to swords/clubs/axes that have the same usages within the category is really surface level stuff. Sure 2H swords swing slower, but they can hit more with AoE, and you could even make the case that they could level up faster than 1H swords as a result of their AoE in some scenarios.

[peak bronze]

#suggestions message For plains tier food I suggested something like this during PTB:

"Many suggestions have been about bear meat usage for black forest tier food, but how about plains tier food? Could be some kind of HP based stew made in cauldron lvl 4 that required bear meat, onion, barley flour and either entrails/bloodbag. Slight inspiration taken from traditional food in my province called mykyrokka (main ingredients of it are fatty meat, onion, offal and dumplings made of blood and barley flour)."

[subtle depot]

The rate at which you gain experience is ultimately tied to how many enemies you kill,
how many hits you need to kill each of them.
And how many enemies you can spawn/find.
If you dont run out of enemies, stamina use per swing is also a factor.

If a weapon deals more damage it needs fewer hits to kill and so you get less xp per kill.

This makes unupgraded meadows/black forest weapons the generally best weapons for increasing your level
And it makes big hitter like the twohanded swords big losers. Especially considering you need to regen 16-20 stamina per swing, as opposed to the bronze swords 6-8_ iirc_

So, no. You will never level faster with a higher damage weapon unless your criterea for "better" is lower stamina usage.

[trail thorn]

cool! will add yours

[languid ibex]

I said they could level faster than 1H swords as a result of their AoE in some scenarios. Being surrounded by enemies in the Ashlands next to a spawner, you can likely gain experience faster wiping out wave after wave. When I say you could even make a case, that means you could likely find ways to support the theory, but it's not necessarily speaking with certainty or claiming anything is universally true.

[wet drift]

Do not make me need more iron.

[light fractal]

You need more iron.

[languid ibex]

@rain ermine You could always name the worlds after the characters.

[rain ermine]

That’s true, I just thought about doing that with my last character. Just figured it’d be a nice little thing to help out lol. Can’t change the old ones now though

[stiff stag]

Also if you only use 1 given player per world, the order both the characters and worlds show up in should match, so it's fairly easy in that case to figure it out. Only time that falls apart is if you use the same character on multiple worlds, or multiple characters on one world.

[ashen tinsel]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the flametal pillar already provide more support than wood-iron?

[peak bronze]

Iirc they're at the same supporting strength, flametal can be placed on lava tho.

[subtle depot]

It has slightly more stability iirc
Its not much better in height, but its a fair bit better sideways in my experinece

[wanton atlas]

@jovial kelp that's already possible to do

[languid ibex]

@ember hedge The suggestion channel isn't for questions, you can ask that question in this channel.

[ember hedge]

Oh my bad,deleted it.

Have the devs already decided on how or if they are going to change the inventory problem in vanilla because I got a solid idea that's not like any of the other suggestions/mods other people have made.

[peak bronze]

Why not post the idea?

[stiff pier]

If they change the inventory I think it is better to change it in Mistlands and Ashlands. The previous biomes I think the inventory and weight limit are a non issue

[languid ibex]

It wouldn't hurt to introduce the fact that inventory will be expanded early on.

[ember hedge]

im learning how to use paint so my idea isnt my horrible drawing

[stiff pier]

Maybe a tiny bit but no much

[stone citrus]

Why not

When is it too early?

[stiff pier]

Because if you add too much inventory space early then you can just carry with you everything without deciding what to carry or what to leave behind. And in my 1200 hours experience, the inventory issue becomes an issue starting in the Mistlands

[stone citrus]

It's not an issue
It's highly inconvenient, tedious, uninteresting, and boring
So why decide on mistlands to be an issue

Weight management is fun
You can decide on what is more valuable
Inventory space is just annoying and boring

Also, more to add, you have1200 hours AND it's an issue to you 🤔

[stiff pier]

Same with inventory space, you do not need your pickaxe, Hoe, axe and cultivator everywhere you go. For example

[stone citrus]

Put those away, what's the benefit and gain
What do you pick up in exchange for these

Dandelion? Iron? Grausten? Honey? What is out there even

[stiff pier]

I believe imo, taking what you actually need with you to explore and not taking things that are not required, is a skill

By increasing the inventory in all the stages of the game you take away that skill

[stone citrus]

I'm sorry, but this is what's mindblowing to me in this discord
If you believe it's a skill and I don't
I dont think I can convince you 🤔

It's definitely not a skill in my opinion

[stiff pier]

We agree to disagree hehe

[stone citrus]

🤝

[stiff pier]

That was a nice dialogue

[lusty trout]

Cultivator maybe not, but you absolutely need your pickaxe, axe and hoe everywhere you go..

[hybrid gull]

inventory management definitely plays a role in how well you fair in a new biome, but if devs really wanted to enforce that kind of choices we'd only have either one or two potions to take with us, one set of armor, etc...

at the same time, unlimited inventory slots would completely erase the issue and you could go around with as much stuff as you want

[stiff pier]

When you go inside a dungeon? When you fight a boss? When you raid a fulling village? When you just run around exploring?

[ember hedge]

i think there should be a button above the armor indicator with this icon 🔁 , that switches you inbetween your equipment and inventory. your armor,belt and trinket maybe arrows would be in it your equipment ui maybe keep the quickslot row at the top just so you can still see your weapons and tools.
bottom 3 rows of inventory would vanish replaced with armor slots belt slot trinket slot when you pressed 🔁

[hybrid gull]

the current system looks like a middle ground between both

[lusty trout]

Yes. If you've played any amount of time you would realize that carrying a hoe and a stack of stone is top tier gameplay.

[hybrid gull]

I've run around the game quite a lot, and while it would be nice to have a little pedestal during a hunt raid in the wild, I'm of the opinion the hoe isn't that vital unless you're doing some challenge

and that, once again, boils down to how you want to prepare before going out

[stiff pier]

Not carrying a Hoe, pickaxe and axe everywhere I go massively improved my gameplay

[lusty trout]

You're not playing the game to the full potential.

[languid ibex]

Inventory as it stands forces much of the game to go underutilized. I simply can't bring niche meads for uncommon occurrences, like a taming speed mead, or a troll endurance mead. The time it'd take to sort that out could just be spent getting it done the long way(i.e. taking two trips or a 30 minute tame for example).

[lusty trout]

Hoe and hammer are the two most useful tools in your inventory.

[hybrid gull]

not even sure what this is supposed to imply, much less what it has to do with the issue at hand

unless you're playing without map, the hoe could be ditched in favor of other items (like maybe some stamina/health mead in case of raids in the wild)

[stiff pier]

No need to get to safety if you know how to kill everything

[languid ibex]

There's no optimal inventory setup, virtually everyone has a different playstyle.

[lusty trout]

"I need to carry my dandelions"

[hybrid gull]

which is why I believe the current system, while not perfect, achieves its purpose

[languid ibex]

It could be argued that you could get good enough to just stop carrying armor, but that just isn't going to ring true to many.

[hybrid gull]

I'm used to just make specific runs through a single biome to gather specific resources, and I focus only on that while outside

[languid ibex]

I often create small camps as I adventure for temporary storage, or demolish broken down POIs, for this reason I do bring my cultivator everywhere, once I take down a POI I will replant the grass. If I harvest random carrot seeds, but I have plenty at home, I will quickly plant them to eventually gather mass carrots in a black forest. No one plays the same.

[lusty trout]

If you can't manage your inventory just do what the pirates do. Plop down a chest and put your extra garbage in that. Mark it and come back.

[stone citrus]

Keyword: "garbage"

[lusty trout]

Exactly. Learn to manage what's important or leave all the garbage in a box instead of trashing it

[stone citrus]

Learn to manage so you can take garbage with you

1 thistle, 3 blood bags, 2 leech trophies, 25 bone fragments, 1/2 a guck, and some goo

Drop cultivator 🧠

[lusty trout]

Keep blood bags leave garbage

[stone citrus]

✨ management

[languid ibex]

My current inventory after some map revealing near my spawn 😅

[stone citrus]

I know you dropped 50 items before you reached this result

Wood stone bukeberries random blueberry dandelion feathers necktail

[languid ibex]

I don't drop anything, I turn natural shelters into camps with storage.

Literally nothing in my world stays on the ground 😛

[stone citrus]

That's too pro

That's not even inventory management at this point
It's pick up artist

[languid ibex]

If a troll knocks a tree down, I will knock more down and leave a 50x wood stack outside a shelter.

[lusty trout]

Here's a thought. Learn what's needed and not. You won't have to manage inventory as much if you refuse to pick up garbage.

[languid ibex]

I went the other way and learned to utilize everything.

[stone citrus]

Stop saying garbage its cracking me up

[lusty trout]

If it's not needed it's garbage. Imagine carrying EVERYTHING home and then wasting storage space. It's like keeping leftovers in your fridge that you KNOW you're not going to eat.

[ember hedge]

excuse my horrid art but this is my idea for equipment ui. the 🔁 would swap you back and forth between inventory and equipment. the quickslots would stay at top between the two uis.

[languid ibex]

Instead I put least necessary items aside in camps, and will set aside 1 adventure eventually to go gather up those items, rather than taking extra trips.

[languid ibex]

I hate to break it to you, but this is potentially the most suggested inventory change.

[ember hedge]

yeah but there always on the side of the inventory taking up screen space

[languid ibex]

Oh I'm not disagreeing, you just mentioned that you hadn't seen anyone suggest it earlier.

[lusty trout]

So you keep your garbage where you found it and only bring it home if you're truly feinding for trash!

[hybrid gull]

I'm not a huge fan of this, because while it frees up inventory space it also makes it slower to to switch gear: I sometimes run around with two sets of armor in biomes like the mountain if I'm looking for both Fenrings and Golems, and that UI would make the whole process way more tedious than it already is

[ember hedge]

yeah true

[languid ibex]

I basically utilize everything, being an avid builder that enjoys decorating, it's all got some utility. Even yellow mushrooms are a nice pathway atmosphere addition.

I do understand the reflex to make things appear as useless as they are for you though. It's just wasted on me.

[lusty trout]

If I need dandelions late game I go farm them. If there's a hard demand for them I'll install a mod that allows me to plant and harvest them myself. I like the game because you have to make the choices on what to keep and what to ignore.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I mark any forgeable goods in clusters of 5+ for easy farming. If they become important to my gameplay, I'll create a portal chain that starts from my base, leads through several large cluster areas, and then back to my base.

[stiff pier]

Cultivator, pickaxe and Hoe in your inventory should be in your inventory. You are not planting, not mining, not raising the ground

[languid ibex]

I am planting, I am mining, and I use the hoe to flatten terrain/create paths/place single stones.

I plant carrot seeds as I come upon them in black forests, I break obstructing rocks for pathways I create, and to build campfires.

[stiff pier]

I am not seeing carrots or carrot seeds or copper or tin in your inventory that you mined or planted, your cultivator is at 100% durability

[languid ibex]

That's fine, I'm just exploring my map at the moment and entering the odd dungeon.

I just ran the outskirts of the upper left to see what's around

[stiff pier]

You do you, do you like the current Inventory system?

[languid ibex]

I've made two different suggestions as to how I would change it #suggestions message #suggestions message
also above I had said this: #suggestion-discussion message

While I've developed systems to manage inventory, I still would enjoy less squeeze where usable items are concerned. I don't think I've ever used throwable bile bombs because of this, carried a dverger circlet for dark moments, etc.

[stiff pier]

Just carry a portal with you drop it down and bring the meads from your home

[languid ibex]

That's 3 additional slots for an uncommon occurrence.

[stiff pier]

15 open slots for gathering other materials during exploration. If I fill up I just portal back home or drop the portal and BOOM 4 more slots. So potentially 19 inventory spots are not enough still with carrying 2 weapons, a shield, armor, trinket, belt and food. Still not enough?

[peak bronze]

Using feasts also save up inventory space.

[stiff pier]

yes! did not find the bog witch yet

[languid ibex]

Yea, I just don't play this way, I like building whenever I can, so I want to make camp sites for storage and portal networks that encompass a land mass. I usually create a portal house for an island with a portal for North, North East, East, etc. That way I can play this way, but it just requires reaching established portal points rather than carrying them around.

[stiff pier]

If you wanna play this way then yeah! It sounds amazing to do that. You use 3 more inventory slots for pickaxe, axe and hoe to build your camps. So from 19 potential inventory you go to 16

Total inventory is 32, so you use half of that to get materials from the biome you explore. Sounds about enough to me

[languid ibex]

I can't say I've felt inventory squeeze in a long time, I've usually a nearby camp to deposit anything less important anyways, and eventually those camps will all have a portal network nearby to clear out.

[stiff pier]

Good to hear

[languid ibex]

I do just wish having more utility goods wouldn't be such a detriment. Niche meads, Dverger Circlet, and Throwables all seem to go underutilized or outright ignored by players.

[wanton atlas]

people keep bringing their hoe out into combat 😅

and build hammers are cheap to make on the fly for a reason

[stiff pier]

True, the only meads I used from the Bog Witch update are the RATATOSK and animal whispers. The Dverger Circlet not even once

[languid ibex]

Wouldn't that result in a chest full of hammers made on the fly? 😛

[wanton atlas]

use -> throw away

no need to keep em

[stiff pier]

The hammer is important to build your portal to get home

[languid ibex]

I don't see myself ever making a hammer just to toss it, I utilize it far too often.

I go out on adventures, I don't set out for combat specifically.

[peak bronze]

Hammer, pickaxe and axe stays always with me, I use the axe as weapon too.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, if I need a quick rested buff at a generated POI building, I don't want to make a hammer then a campfire each time.

[peak bronze]

Hoe leaves the inventory after swamps.

[stiff pier]

For refreshing my rested I just portal home

[languid ibex]

The hoe is great for pathing and being rid of small stones without having them just despawn forever.

[stiff pier]

Hoe only stays in my inventory if I wanna flatten or raise the ground to build my main base, nothing else

[languid ibex]

Yeah that encourages less building as I said before 😛

[stiff pier]

True I am not a good builder, I just build a giant box and call it a day😂

[wanton atlas]

Box is also a shape

[languid ibex]

Very good Smiffe a box is a shape 👏

[peak bronze]

Sometimes I use hoe to mark the mushroom and berry areas I find for finding them easier later during forage trips.

[languid ibex]

I do that as well

[stiff pier]

I just mark them on my map

[languid ibex]

Sometimes they're tucked under ferns and grass, it's just for clarity really.

[stiff pier]

Anyway, my point is that inventory becomes an issue in the Mistlands and especially in the Ashlands where there are a TON of new important items to grab

[peak bronze]

Yes, that too. But to find them on terrain easier.

[stiff pier]

You probably have vegetation quality set to high, I get it

[peak bronze]

I don't, I keep it the lowest.

[stiff pier]

Then you can clearly see them without using the Hoe right?

[peak bronze]

As stated, I do it sometimes.

[jovial kelp]

How? I haven't found a single guide anywhere that includes any references to specifying DNS names in a dedicated server config.
I know I can use DNS names for direct connect, but that defeats the whole function and purpose of crossplay.
(TBF, the documentation for setting up dedicated servers is woefully inadequate. I had to spin up 6 different servers before I figured out that -modifier has to be specified for each world modifier you want to add; ie -modifier does not accept array input. So yeah, I could very easily have missed something.)

[jovial kelp]

On the inventory note - yes, inventory squeeze is a huge thing.
Part of that is my audhd "OCD" about leaving things lying around. It's taken some time to train myself that it's OK to just throw the bukeberries out and ignore the sparkly itemdrop indicator.
And I do carry my hammer, axe, hoe, cultivator, and pickaxe with me everywhere - because those are by far the most useful/used items in the game, and the gameplay where I use those is the most fun part of the game for me (combat is more of an irritation at best).

But I use an expanded inventory mod just for the dedicated equip slots and I still run out of space. One afternoon exploring and I've crossed meadows, black forest, and mountains, and I've got stacks of wood, stone, resin, bukeberries, raspberries, red mushrooms, yellow mushrooms, blueberries, carrot seeds, leather scraps, boar meat, deer meat, deer hide, troll hide, gold coins, rubies, amber, bear meat, bear hide, bear paws, wolf meat, wolf hide, wolf fangs, and at least 4 different kinds of trophies.

I think anyone who thinks inventory squeeze isn't a problem is just a very different kind of player, someone who's OK throwing most of that stuff out and leaving it on the ground or doing a LOT of back&forth with portals. And that's OK but not everyone plays this game the same way and that is OK too.

I understand the need for the game to limit inventory space because that adds incentive to play more parts of the game (like building more portals or FOBs). But I'm also glad for mods that let me play the game in a way that's fun for me.
(OK that wound up a LOT longer than I expected it to be... rant over?)

[hybrid gull]

I'd call myself "organized" enough to not have to throw stuff away in the first place, but I get your point. If you really hate the thought of stuff lying around, use an incinerator, you'll just make Thor happy

if I'm setting out to gather mushrooms and berries I'm ignoring the seldom deer passing by or boar attacking me: I'm most likely already stocked up with those resources anyway if I'm at a point where I have to go out for mushrooms 😂

#suggestions message I wouldn't really want to give nintendo any more money, but it sounds like you really want to buy it (and you probably will anyway)

||pssst Valheim runs smooth as butter on the steam deck||

[wanton atlas]

crossplay 8 digit ID code is our own invention

just get a DNS setup to the IP and type it in. should work I've been told

[jovial kelp]

The advantage of the join code is that it's a LOT easier for me to share and for friends to type in than a full domain name and port number.
The disadvantage is that it registers an IP address in everyone's server list and IP addresses can change.
And it sounds like you're suggesting we just not use the join code. Which is "OK" for PC players who can copy and paste from a discord chat, but anyone playing on a console who has to type it in manually with a controller will not be happy.

What I'd like to see is something like
valheim_server.exe -nographics -batchmode -name "Valheim" -world "Valheim" **-address valheim.mydomain.com** -port 2456 -public 0 -instanceid "0" -preset normal -crossplay
So I can give my friends a join code ie 123456 and the server valheim.mydomain.com:2456 is added to their server list rather than the IP address. It makes the join code more useful and more reliable for long-running dedicated servers. Win-win for everyone.

It's a convenience feature and I understand if it's low priority, but it would make the life of a server admin easier.

[brisk matrix]

what if theres multiple servers behind the IP? with crossplay you dont need to open portforwarding so do you still need to input the port to use the IP/dns for crossplay?

theres also #suggestions message for DNS SRV records like minecraft and factorio support

[dapper cloud]

What does the recycle reaction mean in the suggestions channel?

[subtle depot]

#suggestions message
Tbh, its not so much that it needs to be in alphabetical order specifically, but some consistency and readability would be nice.
Like grouping skills by type (with sepparation), and having them appear in a set order instead of idk, seemingly random?
Like this for example

Run
Jump
Sneak
Swim
Riding

Swords
Axes
Clubs
Spears
Polearms
Knives
Fists

Blocking
Dodge

Bows
Crossbows

Elemental magic
Blood magic

Woodcutting
Pickaxe
Crafting
Cooking
Farming
Fishing

[hybrid gull]

any kind of sensical ordering is better than no ordering at all

the wiki lists them in alphabetical order and it's the most obvious choice if you don't want to complicate things (dividing them in groups is nice, but I'd like some UI changes as well at that point)

[hybrid gull]

that someone thinks it's been suggested before

[dapper cloud]

Ok that’s what I figured.

[meager topaz]

hear me out. T.W.I.G. but able to move and fight for you. like you can set him in a guard position and give it a name

but it would have to be maybe late swamp-early plains level resources becuase it would be a little too op in the black forest and meadows i believe

[hybrid gull]

the concept of "minions" is already implemented with blood magic, I believe?

[languid ibex]

@rigid rivet the farming skill would be alright, but the additional honey should come from locating more beehives, it's already pretty autonomous.

[meager topaz]

yeah but like crafting them as base guards

[autumn idol]

100% Agreed. I made a similar suggestion about this a while back. #suggestions message

[subtle depot]

You can trap a summoned skelly
He wont despawn and will just sit there an wait for your return.

Nothing happens when you are not present anyway so its functionally identical to what you suggest. Provided you dont play as a necromancer...

[wanton atlas]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/EymnJlMnA9U

best ever showcase on "throwing axes" I've ever seen 😮

and this is why we shouldn't have normal axes be throwable in valheim 😄

[light fractal]

Is that a way of saying that we are going to get throwing axes so to make throwing non throwing axes redundant?

[wanton atlas]

no

not saying you're getting throwing axes

[light fractal]

profound sadness

[delicate musk]

he's also not saying we are not getting them so who knows :)

[wanton atlas]

don't twist my words

not not not not no not not not still means. NO throwing axes

but for people asking for "we want secondary attacks with the axe, to throw it" I say it's very unimpractical and wasn't really used as a method of warfare

and the video I posted, shows the problems

[hybrid gull]

#suggestions message
tl;dr autobuild feature from tears of the kingdom

[hybrid gull]

Thysicus's argument is illogical, but so is this reply: !!A = A, and you have 8 not's in there, so you're still saying A. Your original sentence had only one negation, which meant NO already (and let's ignore the weird quirks some languages have with double and triple negations, this is just basic logic)

[wanton atlas]

or the system from satisfactory

[languid ibex]

Just a blueprint system ultimately, present in many games

Scrap Mechanic, SCUM, etc.

[wanton atlas]

alot of unreal 4-5 games

[hybrid gull]

dang, I was thinking of building a sort of "ingredients display" on a table in my kitchen, only to realize I can't put any kind of spice (herbs, powders) on item stands.
Some items from the Witch can be displayed, like the Love Potion, Toadstool, Fragrant Bundle, but the table does feel a bit empty...

oh, not even mead bases can be placed on item stands...

definitely not the wrong channel

[languid ibex]

We're discussing a suggestion and you start speaking about making an ingredients display 🤔

#building-discussion seems fit

[hybrid gull]

no, it does not

[languid ibex]

Right then, be stubborn

[safe quartz]

Anyone interested in RTD overhaul modpack?

[hybrid gull]

would discussing the issue in that channel solve the issue itself? I also made a suggestion just now for the discussion I started, why should I go in #building-discussion

[hybrid gull]

not sure what that is, but if it's a mod for Valheim, use #mods-discussion

[languid ibex]

I'm unsure what retroactively bringing what you'd said on topic does to invalidate my point, but perhaps speak in terms relative to a suggestion or make the suggestion first to be clearer. It really does look like you're just discussing building.

This suggestion was seemingly prophetic 🧹 #suggestions message

[hybrid gull]

I wasn't discussing "how does X look, guys???" or "I've come up with this cool design for...". I was lamenting about something that was clearly missing (and I was implying it should be in the game) in the first place. What's more, Smiffe was clearly in chat, which seemed like a good time to bring it up. The fact I first started discussing it and then posted a suggestion isn't a valid point either.

I would rather say that both of you weren't exactly "discussing" as much as you were stating the obvious, not really adding much to the suggestion in the first place: call it however you want, we all have different gaming experiences in our lives. The label wasn't an important aspect, since the devs will ultimately decide the specifics.

[languid ibex]

Look I gave you the reason why I said wrong channel, nothing to be upset over, it is what it is.

[marble jungle]

Definitely the right channel

[hybrid gull]

not sure why you always paint me as this angry monster when I'm just trying to show you how illogical your argument is

or rather, how you usually fail to connect the dots given a certain situation, but alright...

I can totally ignore you, if that's what you prefer

I just ask you to stop pinging me in return, I'd rather not have to come here just to read something I'd rather not

[languid ibex]

I'd just given you advice to avoid coming off as if you weren't discussing a suggestion, and how it came across to me initially, but you responded with another explanation. It should be clear that I understand at this point.

Apologies if "nothing to be upset over" = 'you're an angry monster' to you, but that's really not my intent and it's just how people speak where I'm from.

[hybrid gull]

I don't think my wording was implying I was upset in any way, but let's just chalk it up to culture differences, if you want.
Deciding what I'm (or for that matter, anyone else is) feeling sounds pretty condescending, too, but I don't remember using it for any logical argument so far (unlike what you did in this reply of yours I linked).
So perhaps for your own good, I'd suggest assuming that everyone else always has good intentions behind whatever they're saying...

[languid ibex]

Not to worry I'm fine, I just thought I'd clear that up for you.

We should probably not derail this channel any further anyways.

Feel free to DM anytime though!

[hybrid gull]

"for you", there you go again. What makes you believe I need anything cleared up in the first place? Just so you know, I've been around online communities for a long time, done moderation in various places, and I can confidently say I can handle myself well around these places, but on one thing we agree, this isn't the place for this kinda stuff

[languid ibex]

Ah just when you said I paint you as an angry monster, thought I'd clear up the intention a bit if that's what you'd taken from it. I get the feeling you're just placing a tone on my words, and I'm not trying to actively fix that, some things just aren't worth the energy.

Anyways, I'm unsure of how well a blueprint system could work in Valheim, given that things are built with materials immediately.

I could see it working with limitations surrounding how many objects are within a blueprint.

This could potentially lead to abuses where crafting skill gain is concerned though...

[hybrid gull]

they could add a new tab to the building screen with your blueprints. Not sure about the images themselves, but even just the name of the blueprint could suffice, I think.
The materials could just be added together if you want to build that, no matter how heavy it is (you just need to have the stuff in your inventory)

to avoid abuses, just make each single blueprint be worth one building action like any other option in the menu (0.25 exp)

[languid ibex]

Yeah, that or the builds don't give any experience because they'd need to be built to be saved as a blueprint anyways.

[hybrid gull]

this UI might need some rework, though, because more materials could spill out. I'm also not a fan of the general design, since there's a lot of wasted space, but that's a different topic...

[languid ibex]

That's where the experience could come from.

[languid ibex]

Yeah this could be another good reason to add object limitations, so it doesn't cross the threshold of the UI

I could see a 50 object limitation going well enough.

I think the big argument against blueprint building is the inevitable increase in instances for every base, and the performance drop that comes with that.

[hybrid gull]

that's an issue with the engine itself, not the blueprint system: the blueprint system would just make it easier for players to reach an amount of instances that lag the game, it doesn't make the game lag just by existing

[languid ibex]

Looking at most base builds, you'll hardly see identical buildings, and that could get pretty lame.

[languid ibex]

The system would inherently effect the engine's limitations, I didn't say the blueprint system would make the game lag, I said the inevitable increase in instances as a result.

[hybrid gull]

"a lot of instances" isn't an argument against "blueprints"

people already reach high instances count anyway

[languid ibex]

Performance drop is most certainly, and blueprints would have an effect there if players can copy their buildings and place them in mass.

@brisk swan Totally agree, I haven't climbed a swamp tree since Abominations started dropping Guck.

[brisk swan]

Same, which was a very fun aspect of getting them

[languid ibex]

Yeah, and perhaps allowing the mistlands extractors to harvest guck as well for anyone needing it in mass.

It'd require reaching Ashlands to transport the extractor(via stone portal)/having swamps attached to mistlands/sailing an extractor to a swamp.

All fairly decent tasks.

[jovial kelp]

Not sure I'll drop this in the suggestions channel proper cause it's more of a thought anyway... and probably one a lot of people have expressed before...

I think my biggest complaint about valheim is that I want more of it.
More wildlife, more resources, more ways to use the resources, more build pieces.

And I think for the "survival" aspect of it, I'd rather have the game without the mobs and instead have random world events... changing seasons so gotta stock up for winter, blizzards and snow storms, floods that wipe out my crops... nature itself is hard and would be a LOT more interesting to me than fighting monsters and zombies. (Which, I know, would make it not Valheim, but adding more natural events to the game would be a good thing and players can use world modifiers to tune the difficulty balance between natural disasters and combat.)

[hybrid gull]

that's something you might get only with mods, if anyone bothers to make one

something tells me the game won't ever change that much to include the stuff you mentioned

[upbeat cedar]

do you think adding 2 more spawn points for queen make sense , bcz map get progressively larger as you get further from the spawn point and , mistlands biome is 3 times larger that all previous biomes combined area wise, do you thing world generation could use some tweaks , like adding functional rivers with waterfalls , and fjords, fits world design nicely

[hybrid gull]

I actually had really bad luck with Yagluth, since the first spawn I found of him (purely by chance, too) was "a quarter of the world away", but I found the Queen on the first mistland island I landed on lol.
Even assuming the Queen was just as far away as Yagluth was, I'd still be fine with it for two reasons:

• you need to prepare for each boss anyway, so discovering it early is not that big of an advantage (heck, finding an infested mine would have been better in retrospect)
• the journey to find Yagluth wasn't even that bad, and even if the Mistlands are kind of a pain to traverse at first, they become much easier to scout with the right equipment

I haven't reached the Ashlands yet, so I may be missing something, but this raises an interesting issue: why does Fader have five locations instead of the usual three? All the other biomes are also relatively larger than the Ashlands are, so from that point of view the Queen should definitely have more locations... if not more than Fader, at least on par with him

actually, I just checked a random seed and I'm seeing five Queen locations... in fact, even Yagluth has a fourth location I wasn't aware of, so there is consistency there

[jovial kelp]

Yeah I agree the game seems pretty "set" in its mechanics. There are mods that add seasons and stuff, but adding environmental events isn't something I've seen in a mod and I imagine it would be a significant undertaking. And it'd impact the game dramatically. (Hence dropping it here as a thought / discussion item more than an actual suggestion)
Still, it's something I wish for.

[stiff stag]

Environmental events often are never a good thing in games, typically just being destructive for no good reason, or slowing progress to a crawl while you just sit around waiting them out. Can't see implementing something like that in any way that adds to the gameplay and experience rather than taking away from it. The closest we have are storms which are already just a nuisance (namely while out at sea), so I really don't want to see more of that.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it seems weather is more of a biome defining factor, and I like it that way. While I agree that having more would be nice, I am not exactly in agreement with broad suggestions like that. For example, the suggestions asking for "more ocean content" are going to get an eyeroll from me, but suggestions that detail a specific ocean creature (whales/kraken/etc.) do give me pause for thought.

Also that just reminded me, I had a dream last night that Morgen-styled Leviathans were a thing, and it was very creepy.

I wonder if they ever do plan on adding anything to oceans.

[ashen tinsel]

I'd be in favour of rare fantasy storms that don't particularily inhibit gameplay; raining necks at 2km out from spawn in meadows for instance. Something to make biomes feel unique and/or memorable.

We have enough fog/mist/ash/wet events already though.

[languid ibex]

That would be pretty interesting

I could see a mistlands alternate where the mist deals poison damage, but the dungeons are far more abundant.

So you need to use poison resistance mead to locate black cores faster essentially. 😛

[hybrid gull]

okay, how did I not notice this at first... wth

that's like... 2 meters, I think? I noticed it because I have the bed upstairs and when I woke up the interaction flickered for a bit

[languid ibex]

Damn, you should report that in #steam-bugs-discussion

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message So you have no actual suggestion, got it.

[sick breach]

Not sure post link isnt working for me, which suggestion are you referring to?

[stiff stag]

Looks like it was removed. They brought up how skeletons get stuck on doors but didn't propose any sort of solution. I would assume it was removed because it fit more as a bug report rather than a suggestion.

[stark furnace]

#suggestions message 🤔 maybe not this route but it'd be cool if bloodstone enchantments increased adrenaline gain

[subtle depot]

bloodstone would be more relevant in a less chaotic biome i think.
its just not safe to walk around missing 150 hp in the ashlands, where you would use it.
the damage increase just isn't worth it. 20% per 100 health missing? its a joke.
sure that is 50% increased damage when sitting at 75/325 hp. 50% is useful.
but that means hhh food. meaning very little stamina and no etir, meaning no staff of protection unless you have a friend.

so you sacrifice 433% of your tankyness for 50% increased damage. on top of having a trash food setup.

I realise its not actually meant as something to rely on like this.
its meant as a little boost to make you able to brute force your way out of difficult situations
however, with a more sensible setup than hhh food, you lack the raw hitpoint count to effectively take advantage.

[peak bronze]

I still think the idea of bloodstone weapons getting more adrenaline when hitting enemies would be good change.
-# The idea of Scales, which I've grown to like even more now.

[languid ibex]

So why do trolls have coins anyways 😛

Is a troll merchant off the table?

[cursive forge]

one google search, takes one.

[stiff stag]

Picked off of the corpses of previous vikings, and collected because they like shiny stuff. On the troll merchant bit, imagine how odd it would be entering a random troll cave just to see a shop setup there. And right as the confusion is wearing off the last thing you see is a tree log slamming down on you. And that's how the troll stays in business.

[chrome matrix]

Can we do some Fire/Ice/Poison Bolts as well?

[stray swift]

Who tryna start fresh world

[wanton atlas]

probably no one in the Suggestion-discussion channel.
better luck in #1024264966712340510

[wet drift]

#suggestions message

Probably the main reason this doesn't exist is that crafted metal items are light and teleportable.

Also I think they just want some decisions to be permanent.

[peak bronze]

Not only that, but it makes the portal system entirely exploitable. I've seen similar mod doing that.

Craft armor/weapon, go through portal, dismantle crafted piece, get materials back.

[wanton atlas]

and people don't want to re-use old armor when they die multiple multiple times aperantly 🤔

[lusty trout]

Old armor is stinky. Why would you use stinky stuff to make new stuff? Makes your new armour stinky too.

[peak bronze]

Put old armor on display. Let armor stand stay stinky.

[languid ibex]

It certainly does, asking a question also works just as well. If you don't feel like answering just don't. 👍

[languid ibex]

Ah yes, I remember this lore now, it's been so long I ended up on a different train of thought.

[cursive forge]

I did answer, it’s also obvious

[languid ibex]

Google it isn't an answer, thanks for coming out though.

[cursive forge]

It is.

[languid ibex]

My question wasn't answered, hence it not being an answer. Not to worry though, someone who did feel like answering did reply to me.

[wanton atlas]

trolls like shiny stuff I suppose. just like Ravens 🤔

[languid ibex]

It's pretty adorable tbh, sometimes their eyes go wide during their snacking animation, I can just see that happening with coins.

[wanton atlas]

they got valuables stored in their caves aswell

[languid ibex]

I wish they were called Troll Holes but what can you do

[wanton atlas]

Trollollos? 🤔

[languid ibex]

Ohohohoho

[languid ibex]

@dapper atlas You can enable dungeon building with console commands.

[dapper atlas]

Yeah?

Which command?

[languid ibex]

I am really not sure off hand, and I am at work so I can't check, sorry!

[dapper atlas]

No problem! I already found it) Thank you for the info!

[languid ibex]

Nice! Happy to help ☺️

[valid garden]

I’m sure I’m not the only one who has thought of this, more interested in people’s thoughts. Didn’t post in the suggestions tab but a hide cloak/helm option

Took my feather cape off and it just made walking around with lightning axes / root ashfang on the characters back looks sick

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message because build pieces are solid and locked in place, I don't see that working as is. However I could see that being either a separate door variant or being built into doors by default. Only problem is you could easily interact with the text box instead of the door by accident, which is not an ideal experience.

[wanton atlas]

I can't understand the purpose for it

just put the sign over the door or to the side

[stiff stag]

Just looks/aesthetics to have it move with the door rather than being stationary, like if you hung a sign on a door in real life.

[unborn zephyr]

what does the ♻️ emoji mean in the suggestions? (I'm still pretty new to this server)

am happy to see folks showing support for photosensitivity stuff, thank you guys 🙏

[stark furnace]

just means it's been suggested b4 is all

[unborn zephyr]

oo that makes sense

[warm swallow]

I was going to make an official 'suggestion' but then realized it's probably a dupe, but I'd be curious on people's thoughts on it, or maybe knowledge of designer's thinking on it, and that's around weapon progression and skill trees. My 'suggestion' was phrased: Some weapon skills should be grouped unless/until their advancement matches things like the sword. Sword and shield have such a satisfying progression, with lots of options and playstyles, and tiers as you work through the game. Some weapons instead have huge gaps in their development (ie, multiple biomes without upgrades), strange differentiation (crossbows and bows), or had almost no framework at all until recently (like fists), which have definitely improved but still have no meaningful cap (ending at plains).

It just seems like combining skill training would incentivize more diversity in builds and smooth out progression, mainly I'm thinking of bows/crossbows, maybe fists/knives. I know part of the "unsparing" game design is to "make you work for it" which I like, AND, swords are so obviously the spoiled child that doesn't actually HAVE to work for it. Have designers talked on this point?

[stray sandal]

I dont recall any serious talk from the devs on this point but I get the sneaking suspicion some of what you suggest very well could be addressed in the 1.0 update. I know its a bit of a fools errand to speculate on something we have very little insight into. But Valheim is still evolving and the recent call to arms update demonstrates the dev's attention to rounding out weapon and armor progression. We wont know until they tell us or 1.0 is in our hands but I have faith Iron Gate are aware of the gaps and working on them one way or another.

[warm swallow]

mm, that's fair. it's an interesting balance, trying to keep challenge, and effort, and consequences (something so few games actually dare to have anymore) and balancing that against UI/UX and keeping things "fun" for a broad enough audience. it's still a pretty small team, right? doing the heavy lifting?

[stray sandal]

I believe the team is in the neighborhood of 10 people and not all of them are dev's working on the code base. So some of the limitations we currently have are born out of balancing player experience against development complexity. Not to mention engine limitations, I forget what version of unity valheim uses but its also worth considering they've made the current design choices due to what does and does not work within their current unity framework.

[light fractal]

I had a fleeting thought that any "missing" weapons in a given tier should be handled as a "secret" weapon necessiting something rare and out of what a player usually get for a given biome. A bit like how you need flesh of ymir to make some hammer.

[wanton atlas]

aware yes. do we need to add every single weapon for every single biome progression?
no

else you would have all weapons available from start, and no "new" weapons or things to discorver during the 8 biomes progression

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I prefer it this way personally, I think players get caught up in skill levels, where they're just less important in valheim

[warm swallow]

I don't think every biome having every weapon refresh is a necessity, and, I think if you really enjoy or connect to a playstyle, having it fall off hard for multiple biomes, or through the endgame can be a bit anti-fun. Also not sure how the no "new" things to discover factors in, adding more weapons or bridging certain gaps adds more to discover, does it not? Unless you mean adding a different format of weapon, but you could do that and still have a relevant skill scale with it?

[warm swallow]

the skill levels are... enormous buffs. I imagine players are gettng caught up in it by design to some degree.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, no, they're not enormous buffs.

[warm swallow]

aaaare we talking about the same things? Weapon/magic skills give like, %140-%200 extra damage?

and thats not including stamina use, draw time, attack speed, etc.

[languid ibex]

This isn't a huge buff, especially considering most players hover around level 60-70

[warm swallow]

aight, we're talking about something slightly subjective here, but I still can't wrap my head anyone saying double to triple the damage is "not a big difference"...

[languid ibex]

In the balance of Valheim, level 0 vs level 100 will save very little time

[warm swallow]

and if we're talking about player perception, you're literally saying "players are too interested in trying to do 2-3X as much damage"

[warm swallow]

"save time"? lol, what. I feel like Im taking crazy pills.

[languid ibex]

It's okay I can't fully explain my point from mobile

[warm swallow]

no one even mentioned time? we were talking about player perception of the value of a game mechanic, and your argument is players are dumb for wanting to do 2-3X the damage... and now you're saying thats because... of how much time the game will take?

[languid ibex]

It's okay you don't understand what I mean.

[warm swallow]

LOL, I think maybe you don't understand what you mean..

[languid ibex]

Rude

[warm swallow]

lol, you're condescending to me while talking gibberish, I think "rude" is fair play

[languid ibex]

If someone wants to take the time to explain the damage scaling importance around Valheim to them. I really cant on mobile

[warm swallow]

condescension oooff the charts

[languid ibex]

Sorry if you feel that way, not my intention.

[stiff stag]

Imagine just giving someone a definition of something they don't understand and they call you condescending for explaining it to them. I think the argument ended before it even started.

[warm swallow]

what definition?

[stiff stag]

The perception from any normal point of view is that
1.) skills level up gradually and naturally in the background without you even needing to focus on it or worry about it
2.) any significant boost happens very gradually over a long period of time, focusing on it isn't going to speed up the process or give you a noticeable buff in real time
3.) higher and higher levels have diminishing returns, making it clear to anyone that squeezing out 1 extra level when you're already at a high level is not going to be worth paying any mind to, especially when it will simply happen naturally anyway
It's only the people that hyper fixate on skills and that have an unhealthy obsession with them that have these issues.

[warm swallow]

"normal point of view", lol, more condescension. firstly, there was no "definition" in what the other person was saying. He said "skills dont matter", and I said, yes they do because of math, and he said "no". That was his "definition".

What you're giving resembles *something like a definition, except everything you said is nonsense.

1. I've played through the game multiple times, skill progression among myself and friends that play is talked about, perceived, and levelled with direct intent.
2. There's literally archery targets and fighting dummies now that help you do so.
3. None of this conversation has been about the speed of levelling skills or about how those increases change over levels near the level cap, so this point is mostly irrelevant except insofar as you're insinuiting caring about a mechanic of the game is an "unhealthy obsession" (more condescension).

[stiff stag]

Obsession and hyper fixation like you're displaying here is objectively not normal, and it's not condescending to state the obvious.

[warm swallow]

lol, brother, "obsession and hyperfixation" are things you are in no way qualified to assess, and you're missing the mark so very, very hard, lol

but also, this shit is so far afield of what I was actually talking about and you're clearly a waste of time, lol. cheers mate.

[stiff stag]

The ultimate goal of using the player perception strawman is to make an argument for something else that's much harder to carry your stance on, so no, I'm not off base on the matter here at all.

I've just seen that lame argument so many times I'm not even bothering to entertain it.

[warm swallow]

the irony of you creating 3 strawmen in one sentence about someone else using a "strawman" that you literally invented is... hilarious. go off, king.

🤡

[rose swan]

What’s going on in here? 👀

[warm swallow]

Stranded was just winding down. Im on my way out. Cheers!

[languid ibex]

I'm home now, here's a decent example. Max upgrade skill level 0 Krom can kill an Asksvin in 4 combo'd hits, where a Max upgrade skill level 100 Krom will kill that same Asksvin in 2 combo'd hits. The importance of skills takes a hit in this regard because at max level you take only two attacks less to kill an enemy. This can be further mitigated with meads, stagger, and secondary attack usage.

When I say skills are less important, that doesn't mean I'm saying skills are meaningless.

[lofty field]

That seems very subjective. I'd say needing only half the hits is a very significant difference

[languid ibex]

It's really not when hits take seconds, and you'd need to directly focus much more time training the skills than you would just adding a second or two to each enemy.

[stiff stag]

Half of an already very low number is not significant. You're taking something that's already quick/brief and making it relatively slightly more quick. Now if it was something that took 100 hits to kill and that got reduced to 50, then it would be significant.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, even things like a Morgen are made quick work of with level 0 weaponry, because the weapons aren't just scaled around skills.

[lofty field]

It's not just time, it's also 2 hits worth of stamina (on top of the very noticeable stamina usage reduction). And that in a biome where you very often fight a group and not a single asksvin

[languid ibex]

If enemies were scaled higher HP wise, it'd take on more importance.

Stamina reduction is also reduced by weaponry itself, not to mention combat prowess due to the latest update.

[lofty field]

Also, I get your point of view somewhat for melee skills (although I feel different), but there are other skills where you feel the difference very noticeable while leveling up, like bow, blood magic or jumping

[languid ibex]

Right, but even in those cases, the usage is safer and more hits at lower levels isn't much of a risk.

[lofty field]

Yes, but it's still very noticeable. Maybe not as much as with those other skills, but you'll really feel the difference when you start a new playthrough with a new character.

[languid ibex]

Oh most definitely, but you'll also acquire decently high skill levels quickly enough before it drops into a range where it takes some time.

[lofty field]

True

[stiff stag]

Starting a new character is an instant shift that will obviously be felt. Leveling up a character throughout a playthrough over dozens of hours is a far cry from that. The change in that situation is so gradual that you don't feel it in real time, especially when the individual increases are so low, and each subsequent level takes longer than the last.

[subtle depot]

There is a break point where skills are much more impactful than just damage.
When you get enough damage to stagger an opponent with a single basic attack.
It goes from never, to %chance, to always.
And when you hit that "always" threshold the game is suddenly much easier.

Telling people they can't tell when this happens is frankly insulting to everyone's perception.

[languid ibex]

I don't think anyone said that.

[subtle depot]

Also, the time argument is silly.
Not everyone is good enough at combat to treat enemy encounters like a chore instead of a challenge. Killing something in 2 seconds and 15 stamina instead of 4 seconds and 40 stamina can easily be the difference between living and dying

[languid ibex]

It's just an example of the differences made by these levels, where most players would mostly be between levels 30-70 on average.

There are even use cases where level 0 and level 100 would kill in the same amount of hits against progression adjacent enemies with progression adjacent weaponry.

[subtle depot]

Which ignores other factors like stamina, range, animation time, and the fact that 0 skill weapons damage has an rng of -+50%

[stark furnace]

ye the rng factors is actually pretty huge ngl

[languid ibex]

I never ignored anything, I simply mentioned it's a possibility.

[subtle depot]

Then stop comparing oranges and bananas like they are both apples

[languid ibex]

I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion, but the topic is pretty cut and dry.

That topic being, are skills important to combat progression? I mentioned they were less important than they're typically perceived to be by players, which is where this whole discussion began.

You'd seemingly taken what Stranded said about gradually slowing skill increases to an extreme, and understood that to mean that no one can tell when they reach a threshold where stagger always happens.

That was a bit of a jump to be fair.

[stiff stag]

Are you making an instant jump from 0% chance to a 50% chance, or is it more like 0% to 1%? It's the fact that the changes in general are so gradual and are stretched over a massive amount of time that makes it not noticeable in real time. You aren't going to notice a major difference once you reach a 100% chance because what you had before that was a 99% chance, practically happening every time anyway, with very few failures out of many attempts. I would like to see the actual numbers though (not the made up amounts I used to get the point across) and just how gradual it is. That's the only point where I can see that argument actually being valid is if the differences are large enough to be noticed along the way.

[subtle depot]

the minimum damage is always 50 levels behind the maximum damage
so for any given weapon or enemy, the the difference between never stagger and always stagger is 50 levels
so its 2% stagger chance per level.

On the surface this supports your argument that it is gradual. however, that is without considering the function of stagger.
As a contrast, take parrying. 100% skill and knowledge based. The only rng is your skill as a player.
how bad do you have to be at parrying for you to stop relying on the mechanic?
what if you only land 4 out of 5 parries. or 3 out of 5 parries.
i would not rely on parrying if i could not parry 9 out of 10 times

back to just hitting your enemies so they stagger. what happens when you hit an enemy and they don't stagger.
they hit you. so that means not staggering an enemy by hitting it is equivalent to missing a parry (worse because you're not blocking half the parries you miss really but whatever)
And at what point does it become something you can rely on.
even being generous and saying 80% chance is good enough to rely on. that means 10 levels
In 10 levels, hitting first goes from an unreliable and an unviable combat strategy to a 100% reliable combat strategy that never fails from rng.

If those 10 levels were always 85 to 95 i would agree its a very gradual grind. but its not. those 10 levels could be any 10 levels.
for a fuling and black metal sword its level 41 to 51
2 upgrades iron mace vs draugr, level 73-83
bronze axe vs greydwarf, lvl 5 - 15
bronze axe vs skeleton, lvl 32 - 42
slayer secondary vs charred warrior, lvl 47-57
maxed berserkir axes secondary vs charred marksman, lvl 23-33

it gets complicated to calculate with the weapons with modifiers and elemental damage and enemies with resistances. (and i dont trust the wiki or my math to match the games math 1 to 1) But i think you get the idea

[warm swallow]

Thanks for going into so much detail on this. I had neither the time or inclination to go that deep when just the premise that an increase of %2-300 on your damage output was "meaningful" was being condescendingly dismissed by omni and stranded with 0 rationale to back it up.

A very silly conversation, but as you said, it's not even just about the damage. Bows increase the damage AND increase the draw speed by %80, meaning you're theoretically increasing the dps close to %700 when you're firing back to back. But again, NO player could POSSIBLY perceive those differences, except someone with "obsessive, hyperfixation", right stranded?

[languid ibex]

I said it's okay twice but you definitely took that as me dismissing you, but I told you I was on my phone. I even apologized... 🤷‍♂️ oh well I suppose.

[stark furnace]

I think I should do a no skills run sometime so I could contribute to these discussions a little more

[languid ibex]

That'd be some really good input/feedback as well ultimately.

[subtle depot]

that would be a no skills walk

[languid ibex]

Perhaps the developers could fine tune their efficacy based on how well/bad that goes.

[warm swallow]

lol, you said "it's okay you dont understand". I understood exactly what you were saying.

your cell typing had nothing to do with my understanding

[languid ibex]

Oh, well you made counterpoints that had no relation, so I just tried to tell you it was okay and that I couldn't elaborate.

[warm swallow]

it would actually be interesting to drop into a couple of my fully "unlocked" runs with a fresh character and slap all the endgame gear on and see hownit goes.

I've maxed elemental, bloodmage, bows, and now fists and maces. Something tells me a no skills run of those areas with all the right gear and potions/food will still feel.. awful.

[languid ibex]

You'd hit level 30 very quickly and the growing pains would fall off not long after that.

[warm swallow]

I definitely think that's not the case, but even if it were, you're admitting the importance and relevance of skills to game balance.

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message

I knew you'd say that. 😅

[warm swallow]

it's a full 180, Im proud of you. you're growing.

[languid ibex]

It's literally the same as my first comment on the topic, I just think you'd taken it another way.

Where less important sounded like it's not important.

[warm swallow]

lol, you cannot stop blaming someone else for how THEY interpret your words, even after admitting your words were wrong, rushed, and incomplete. that's gonna be a sticking point irl. just some unsolicited advice.

[languid ibex]

When Smiffe has to explain why there's no weapons in some biomes, or some weapons arrive late, it's easy to see that some players want the weapon they leveled up to be usable throughout, but ultimately you can level anything reasonably quick.

Utilizing anything at level 0 is also considered in the game balance, as well as when it's acquired in the game.

[languid ibex]

I don't think I'm blaming you, I'm just letting you know my original intention has been consistent.

[warm swallow]

smiffe didn't explain anything, he said, "do we have to put the next tier in any biome? no we dont" and then logged off, lol.

[languid ibex]

That's.. okay. #suggestion-discussion message Seems a bit reductive to the explanation given.

[warm swallow]

there's a big gap between "we don't have to give every weapon path an entry at every biome", (not something I was advocating for), and "some weapons get--not just an upgrade at each biome--but a legendary endgame version, while some get cut off 2 biomes short of the end game.

[languid ibex]

Ah well, endgame isn't even realized just yet, so that's a bit hasty of a point to make.

[warm swallow]

....

[warm swallow]

we are making suggestions based on the game as is, not on the game we have no idea about that will one day be released

[languid ibex]

Ashlands is the 2nd last area that we know of, this could be the last sword for all we know.

[warm swallow]

and AS IT IS, the sword and shield are completely realized at all levels AND have a [current] endgame quest, and things like fists have 3 iterations and don't upgrade through the last two biomes at all

it's wild talking to you, you seem to just want to be contrarian, desperate to give any counterpoint as quick as possible without thinking at all about what was said or the context.

[languid ibex]

So there's an option for players who want that consistency, options for players who want to try new things, and options for players who want to use gimmicky/odd weaponry with strange effects.

[warm swallow]

thats like saying I went to a restaurant and my friend with the steak got his cooked, but I chose chicken and it's raw and thes erver said "well, there's a meal for people who like their food cooked, and if yhou like raw meat, you can order the chicken!"

[languid ibex]

That's a terrible comparison, and has little to do with progression and options serving other types of people. What you've said would be like "There's swords and wooden swords for each biome, and that's it."

[warm swallow]

you're suggesting some players would like an incomplete weapon tree while others may prefer a fully realized weapon tree. and the fact you don't see why that's absurd fully reminds me that this conversation started with you saying "%2-300 doesn't really matter". sooo why am I wasting my time?

[languid ibex]

I can see this is going no where to be honest, art is subjective, so you will see what you will see ultimately. I'm definitely biased having made games for decades, I'm not going to try and convince you I'm correct, I can only point you to what is currently happening.

[warm swallow]

lol, theeeeere's the condescension again. and we're back at the start of the circle. cheers mate. reasoning and logic aint for everyone.

[languid ibex]

You can be reductive all you like, my point was based in the fact that most enemies in Valheim are going to take a handful of hits regardless of levels, and the time it'd take to realize the full benefits of skills could just be utilized playing the game and taking a couple extra swings.

[warm swallow]

dude, fuksias already wrote you a small dissertation on why that's preposterous and you chose to address none of it, because you're ignoring every single thing said that clearly and concisely unravels what you're saying.

[languid ibex]

Saying we have different perspectives is condescending? I think you might be projecting something on to me, I'm trying to let you know we likely won't agree.

[warm swallow]

if we were talking about music and I said "we have different perspectives I guess. Im biased from my decades as a professional musician", you think that wouldnt be condescending?

[languid ibex]

They were making a point where it comes to gradually feeling levels? I'm assuming you didn't read it, and also notice that it addressed nothing were discussing in this current topic.

[warm swallow]

it was expanding fully on the point that skill trees have an enourmous impact on the game

[languid ibex]

No I wouldn't because being a player and a creator will inevitably have different viewpoints.

[warm swallow]

lol, and both a listener of music and a professional musician's viewpoints have equal weight when discussing the design of something musical?

[languid ibex]

Yeah, you've definitely bent that around, because that's not the point being made there...

[languid ibex]

Absolutely, it's why chefs listen to food critics.

[warm swallow]

are you fully ESL? Im not even trying to be mean, Im just realizing there are so many things being said where you're fully not understanding the meaning of words and turns of phrase. if you're ESL then I'm genuinely sorry.

[warm swallow]

LOL, yeah but they don't listen to customers.... almost ever.

[languid ibex]

Alright, we're at mudslinging, I'm going to bow out, sorry we couldn't reach an agree to disagree.

[warm swallow]

Im being fully sincere, because if you are then Im being actually shitty

[stiff stag]

Thanks for providing numbers for a varying range of scenarios. At the very least I can admit it's more black and white than I made it out to be (plenty of situations are still in the range where it's gradual and felt over a long time, while plenty of others could potentially be in a noticeable range. Can see how high damage output, resistances, and other factors affect the levels required to stagger a given enemy from the examples you gave alone.

I will note though, if you're getting hit after attacking an enemy because you failed to stagger them, that doesn't make the stagger chance necessarily important, it more so shows that stagger is used as a crutch. In my experience I try to avoid attacking in ways that will leave me wide open with no way to avoid an oncoming attack if I happen to mess up (unless I'm fighting enemies from several biomes earlier where taking a hit is barely felt at all). I'm not perfect at it but playing that way has allowed me to recover from mistakes many times, so having a lower stagger chance doesn't negatively impact me much and doesn't come off as important as it is to someone that relies on it.

[hybrid gull]

deja vu

[placid sundial]

💡I recently started playing Valheim and I’m already obsessed with the survival, exploration, and creativity the game offers. The world is huge and full of discovery, which got me thinking: What if there were official or community online servers you could browse and join, holding around 30–50 players at a time? Similar to other survival sandboxes, this would allow more organic player interaction like encountering strangers while sailing, building small settlements near others, trading, forming alliances, or rivalries. It could add an exciting new social layer to the world. Important part: this wouldn’t replace the current system at all. Private worlds, small friend groups, and solo play would stay exactly how they are, just with the additional option for those who want more multiplayer freedom. Console players especially would benefit, since they don’t have the same access to server browsing mods as PC users. I feel like this feature could bring a fresh breath of community and exploration into Valheim while respecting the players who prefer peaceful solo adventures. With the world being so vast and magical, it feels like a perfect fit. Thanks for reading, and keep up the amazing work developing this game! If you like this idea give it a thumbs up so it gets to the developers!!!!

What do you people think about this?

I just noticed you can just join servers through the discord i still think if there was a way in game it would be better because not all players join discord or even have it

[arctic wharf]

I think this would go well if crystal also was somewhat available within the deep north 👀
Double whammy since could introduce more pieces later in the game to make use of your existing stores while also giving another place to find it (similarly to how some metals are available in later biomes in different ways).
https://discordapp.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202312684364910612/1431761547348414585

[placid sundial]

My suggestion oh my people who put thumbs down just dont like multiplayer but ether way it wouldn't change anything because you could still play alone or the same way before it would just be more easy for everyone instead of needing to join the discord and see it that way some people dont even join the discord or think about it also haha

[arctic wharf]

I am 99.9% sure Irongate will never have official servers, but there already is a handful of community servers that can have quite a few players online and run fairly smoothly. 🙂

[placid sundial]

Right now the game only supports 10 players, which feels pretty limited. I’m not sure how well the game could handle it, but having servers with 50+ players would be amazing for survival gameplay. It would make the world feel more alive and intense.
It would also be awesome to eventually add a mod menu so players can download and use mods directly in the menu of thr gane instead of needing a PC. Official servers could stay on normal difficulty with standard rules, while other servers could have different difficulty options for players who want a challenge.
I’ve seen features like this in other survival games, so it feels totally possible in the future. I think it would help the game grow a lot in my opinion.

[viral kraken]

Even 10 is too many. It’s a game to play with a few friends, not 50+ people. You can also change the limit in the configuration of the server, if you must have more than 10. But, you’ll find that resources such as silver and even iron will get scarce.

What do you mean by “grow”? It’s not a live service game

[wanton atlas]

Add 0.01 to that.
The cost are immense and there is no point of is hosting either

@placid sundial since you're new here.
please read what the seasoned veterans say.

Valheim will not support 50+ players.
Valheim will not be a MMORPG.
Valheim isn't build around more players than a small group of friends playing together either.

[wanton atlas]

Valheim have over 14.000.000 players, and 150,000 of them are on discord..
There is... multiple ways to join someones playsession

• Inside the client
• Steam friendslist
• Joining someone with the crossplay code
• Joining a dedicated server either crossplay code or IP / DNS address.
  As examples.

[subtle depot]

i remember running out of tin on a world where we were 6 people
had to sail to the edge of the map to get more

[wanton atlas]

All those resources is finite

[weak jasper]

Maybe the Valheim Battle Royale could be sold as a separate game.

[wanton atlas]

maybe but I don't think we got to much interest in such a game to be honest 🤔

those games requires so much exact balancing and such

[weak jasper]

That's true too. Hahaha

[errant mauve]

I think the other issue with official servers for Valheim is that there is a LOT of room for greifing. Its a high trust game, you need to know your servermates will act in good faith. Most MMORPGs are low or zero trust, if someone is able to attack you then they're usually in an enemy faction, and you certainly cant take their stuff out of containers or mess with their player housing.

To get around this, the official servers would have to be heavily moderated (realistically an impossible task) or a lot of new gameplay mechanics would need to be added.

Even in Ark you rely on players in enemy tribes acting in good faith to not attack you whilst youre not logged in to defend your base. Eve Online deals with this best I think, in short player structures are invincible except certain time windows, so you dont need to be loged in 24/7 and have time to prepare for an upcoming fight where your structure is going to become vulnerable.

[wanton atlas]

well yes

valheim isn't build around grief proofing and server side calculations that is usual cheat / exploit prevention

[arctic wharf]

I wrote 100% at first, and edited it haha

[placid sundial]

I get what you’re saying about resources and Valheim being more of a small group experience. That totally makes sense for the current design. I just think having the option for larger worlds or community servers would open things up for players who enjoy bigger group dynamics. The default cap can stay small for those who like it that way, but giving people more flexibility could make the game even stronger for different playstyles. Some players love that MMO-style chaos, and Valheim has such a solid foundation that it could handle it with the right settings or balancing. Also, if resources are the main concern with larger worlds, server isn't there a setting that could simply make key materials more plentiful or easier to find. That way both types of players get the experience they enjoy.

[wanton atlas]

we won't change it

the game stops balancing enemies when there is more than 5 players in the area

balancing for fights with over 20 people?
no thank you

then some monsters would probably have to one hit players and have boss level of HP

[viral kraken]

As Smiffe said, it’s not an mmo/mmorpg. Never will be. Plenty of other games that are for those who want that

[placid sundial]

I get that Valheim isn’t aiming to be an MMORPG, and I’m not suggesting it dose not need to jump to 50+ players or anything close to that if not possible. My thought is more about flexibility. Some groups are bigger than just a handful of friends and enjoy long-term community worlds with more players. Even bumping the cap a bit or giving server admins more tools would help those communities thrive without changing the core design.
Since resource strain seems to be the biggest concern, larger servers could simply have adjusted world settings where ores and key materials spawn more frequently or regenerate faster and wtv else. Those who want the original experience can leave everything as it is, and others can choose settings that fit their group size.
I think Valheim’s already incredible foundation could support more player-driven possibilities. Options never hurt. They just help more people enjoy the game the way they like it dose not change anything big the game just makes it more open to how players want there world.
(What about a mod menu if not official servers and things of that nature I feel like a mod menu for players to download mods onto there world through the game would be sick at least and would open up console players to have mods on there world and maybe make it easier for pc players on top of that)

[languid ibex]

Yeah, it's just not in scope of development, especially considering this is a small team with deadlines and budget restrictions to keep.

That sort of thing is best acheived by modders in these cases.

[placid sundial]

Totally understand you’re not aiming for an MMO and don’t want huge servers. I’m not asking Valheim to become something different from what makes it great. My point is just that options are healthy for a growing community. Even a small bump to the player limit or world settings that scale for bigger friend groups would give more flexibility without affecting the core experience.
If it’s not something planned right now, that’s fine. I just wanted to share the idea since a lot of players enjoy larger co-op sessions, community events, and long-term worlds filled with more people. Thanks for taking the time to respond either way.

I was also thinking from the console player side since mods are pretty much PC-only right now im pretty sure. Even something small like a built in way for console players to browse or access approved mods in the future would make the game feel more equal across platforms. Not expecting it soon, just putting the idea out there because there are such things like that on other games like mod menus for console. Appreciate the responses.

[wanton atlas]

a small bump from 10-15 would make the game very boring to those extra 5 :/

and it's not in the plans either to adjust the limit or make it dynamic either

since if it's a official thing, we have to make it playable and enjoyable aswell

we've talked before about a ingame mod support. but unsure now with all the platforms how and if it would be allowed on all of them

[placid sundial]

Yeah that totally makes sense. Cross-platform rules can be super strict, especially for console mod support. If the player limit isn’t something that fits Valheim’s design just thoughtit could be cool finding players around the world and so much other things that could happen but ofc things for serversof that size would have to be adjusted.
For mods though, even a curated or “approved” mod browser down the line would be huge for console players who want to enjoy creativity from the community without a PC. It would make the game feel way more accessible overall.
I appreciate you taking the time to explain everything. Just tossing ideas anyway i got work so see yea!!

[hybrid gull]

I understand wanting to voice your opinion, but insisting on something you've been adamantly told won't happen by any means (from a dev no less!) sounds pretty shameless. I'll pretend I don't know why you started 👍'ing your own posts, but I will say that I'm not a fan of shitty manipulative tactics @placid sundial
If console players really seek equality they can just go buy a PC <.<

[subtle depot]

I think valheim has a big enough community that there will be mods for a gamemode with more than 10 players eventually.
We already have multiplayer, so allowing more people to connect should not be a huge problem.
there are modded multiplayer servers for tons games. Old games, modded games and even a few single player games if you just look.

[languid ibex]

I'll never forget when Just Cause 2 had a multiplayer mod blow up and thousands of players were doing insane stuff everywhere 😂

[subtle depot]

I wonder if it was comparable to the chaos that was 800 players in a modded grand theft auto 5 lobby

[wet drift]

I remember a video of 8 streamers playing together. Even with good hardware, that was too many.

Maybe performance has improved a ton (I doubt it) but 15 players on normal hardware would surely still be awfull.

[lofty field]

@errant mauve what situations do you have in mind where this driftwood would be helpful? I think the only time(s) my ship broke out in the open water was when I got careless/overconfident with hunting serpents and driftwood with the health of a raft would probably just delay the inevitable for a few seconds in that situation.

Or not. Maybe I underestimated a raft's health a bit, it should survive a few bites which might give you enough time to kill it

[languid ibex]

There's always altering render/graphics/lighting lower than default options, things like FiveM/RedM do this and scales quality drops with the amount of players online.

[lofty field]

I think the bottleneck in mp is usually the cpu and/or the networking and not the gpu, so I don't think lowering graphics settings is going to have much of an impact

[languid ibex]

Right, but render distance would.

[lofty field]

I don't think so (but I'm not sure). The size of the loaded/active world around the player is hardcoded to 5x5/3x3 chunks and not affected by any settings I think.

[languid ibex]

In the case of modding this into existence, hardcoded isn't exactly a wall.

[lofty field]

True, but you can't really go below 3x3

[hybrid gull]

@unreal gulch you've made a lot of suggestions, many of which have already been suggested before. I'd suggest sticking with one suggestion per post...

and maybe look it up before posting it for the n-th time

[placid sundial]

I’m not trying to force anything or ignore what the dev said. I’m just sharing ideas that I think would be awesome for the game. That’s kind of the whole point of a suggestions channel.
Also, telling console players to “just go buy a PC” isn’t really fair. Not everyone has that option, and more accessibility helps the game grow. If something isn’t possible, that’s fine. Suggesting features isn’t manipulative, it’s supporting the game.
We’re all here because we like the game and want to see it keep getting better and grow. No need to get hostile about it 😭🙏.

And also i brought up a whole other idea about a mod menu if you read my messages 🥀🫩

[unborn zephyr]

posting a lot of repeats drowns other people's ideas out

[unreal gulch]

Yup sorry I just posted suggestions that I wanted to be added and in 4 years I guess everything has been suggested anyway so suggesting the same thing several times show more interest. I don't think devs will check post from severals years ago considering the thousands of messages posted in this topic to see how many likes are on it and which post I should "like" to show my interest if dozens has been posted since the beginning.
I will stick to 1 suggestion for the next post I'll do

[placid sundial]

I never new it was repeated so many times and if its repeated so much times then idk look more into the idea ig

[unborn zephyr]

newbie question but do things from the suggestions channel ever make it into the game? there are a lot of great ones in there, I'm a lil worried my accessibility one got buried and might not be seen by them

[wanton atlas]

yes

[placid sundial]

Not my fault it was my first suggestion 🙏 i just started but so what not like I made a suggestion that changes the game completely juat a mod menu so mods are easier to access and officials servers or more player servers that are easily accessible

[unborn zephyr]

bless 💜 pls send happy vibes to dev team for me cuz this game is fantastic

[stiff stag]

If someone spams you over and over again, what do you think the normal reaction to that should be?

[wanton atlas]

I would choose to ignore it

[languid ibex]

Welcome sir, just know that there are some unspoken rules, but it's not a harsh community! The feedback you get on suggestions are mostly community members, so don't take it too seriously. Many downvoted/deconfirmed suggestions made their way into the game.

[unborn zephyr]

it'd also be unreasonable for folks to expect a y/n/discussion from devs on every single suggestion.
I went completely insane attempting that with just a handful of people while I was running a modded minecraft server

[errant mauve]

Thats one situation yes. Another would be mobs along the coastline, though depending on if its deep enough for the nails to sink thats not as much of an issue. Whatever the reason, in this game with no portal to get you back (because youre out at sea) its extra brutal, so my idea was to give you some way to maybe get out of the jam you found yourself in.

If you think that if we cant justify somewhat mitigating the consequences of a careless mistake, then all games should be locked into permadeath/hardcore mode.

[lofty field]

Nah, I'm not thinking that. Was just wondering what your thoughts were

[errant mauve]

OK cool. I dont know if capsizing also destroys your ship, never happened to me personally.

[viral kraken]

It does

[stiff stag]

I've only ever managed to flip one over while messing around with flying to push a boat at high speed for the fun of it, never had it happen under normal conditions though.

[languid ibex]

My first and only capsizing was a storm wave throwing me at a Leviathan 😅

[somber totem]

i would kill for light carapase armour that gives +15 skills to crossbows

or some kind of bolts/arrows that deal slash dmg

[unborn zephyr]

bolts that do slash damage would need to be some kind of spinning thing maybe

my tired brain: "like those whatsits... bolo... bol... uhhh... marbles on strings? fidget spinners? NO. chakrams? BOOMERANG?!"

[light fractal]

I was thinking of broad head arrows

[peak bronze]

Bolts with a little axe heads.

[unborn zephyr]

someone added the emoji saying the accessibility suggestion i added was a repeat but i can't find where it was mentioned before

[wanton atlas]

in:#suggestions flashing

use this search

I see a few talking about flashing

[unborn zephyr]

i'll search again, sorry if i repeated someone's >.<
mine were 2 different topics but i could edit to combine into one if that would be better?

[wanton atlas]

doesn't matter to me if you do that

better to leave them I guess

[unborn zephyr]

ohh it was april 2024

[wanton atlas]

we did ask for accessability topics before and my collegue collected alot of ideas and suggestions

and 100000's of suggestions where wiped during the hack 🙁

but alot of our oldtimers remembers them

[unborn zephyr]

oh god i didn't hear about that i'm sorry you experienced that D:

[wanton atlas]

the OG server was made back in 2018 or something

but idiots wanted to "have fun" and take over 100's of discord servers and remove channels etc

[unborn zephyr]

(am i allowed to swear?) that's ...absolutely reprehensible

[wanton atlas]

so for example. if you search horse now, you get like 10-15 suggestions

but the actual number use to be like 1000+

even tho we said no so many times 😄

[unborn zephyr]

hhholy

[wanton atlas]

and asking for the same time over and over won't help

"nagging" isn't working 🥲

[unborn zephyr]

understandable

maybe like a read-only FAQ for devs to put those and just like
We get these questions a lot, and have made decisions on them as a team. There are a lot of factors that go into considering suggestions, so please know we did consider them and these are our final answers.

1. Horses: no.
2. (i don't know what else) Bicycles: why?? no.
3. etc
   and then the community could add a FAQ emoji to when those suggestions pop up lol

just a thought, if it would help take nagging off your guys plate a bit.
and people pleading 'but whyyyy', i really hope folks don't do that here. but i got that when i was running just a lil minecraft server w/mods and it drained my soul

please do feel free to dm if i can help at all with photosensitivity related things, i'm not an expert or anythin but yea

[wanton atlas]

people don't read those 😄

I've made tons

and sometimes my collegues suprise me and does 180 on some "no,nope, nevers" 😄

[unborn zephyr]

aw man lol

[wanton atlas]

like bears

no domestic or irl animals was suppose to be added again

and then bears

[unborn zephyr]

the screenshots i've been getting from being angled suddenly into seeing the glorious googly eyes from inside the bear helm ...worth it

do you think you might do another accessibility forum type thing like you had before things were mass deleted?

[wanton atlas]

you could always send a email

[e-mail]

[unborn zephyr]

oh, thank you
I haven't played any of the new content, and don't remember much of mistlands the little bit we did... so I don't know if there is any flashy content beyond that
What kind of info/format is most helpful for you?

[stiff stag]

And unfortunately people take situations like that as an invitation to completely ignore rejections and refuse to take no for an answer. A rejection is supposed to be a cue to the player base that the idea is not open to suggestion and to drop the topic. Whether the developers ever change their minds or not is irrelevant and doesn't give anyone the right to rudely ignore the decision they were told.

[wanton atlas]

well yes

but in the end. it's us making the game, and the players can only suggest. Never demand. things

[peak bronze]

Also bit fun when some people think they just could demand things on Early Access game.

[rose swan]

I demand Deep North

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-kitten-begging-attention-gif-12335732

[peak bronze]

Somehow got reminded by this. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vt6ZNsHylRE

[languid ibex]

@somber totem There's a reason enemies resist pierce, it's to discourage using a bow for every single fight. The resistance isn't there accidentally. 😛

[somber totem]

yea, but i enjoy crossbows and they dont have even elements, i literally cannot kill most of the enemies, my friend with melee do 3x more dmg than me, that is the unbalance i speak of, but i still can't figure how to fix it without just changing reses

[languid ibex]

That's not unbalance, it's balance. If you're hardly helping at range and want to do more, switch to melee.

[somber totem]

spear also does only pierce dmg and no wonder it one of the worst late game weapons

[languid ibex]

It's a ranged hybrid but also can acquire skill experience extremely fast, allowing you to receive skill buffs faster than most weapons, and utilize them at range.

[somber totem]

also just checked, blunt is always on neutral on bosses and slash sometimes isn't but pierce get res on bosses all the time(not 1st boss)

[languid ibex]

Yes because you either get up close, or spend time and resources to play it safe.

[somber totem]

so this weapon is basicly a scam? 💀

[languid ibex]

I don't know if you're reading anything but the damage types, but it has 6x backstab, plenty of adrenaline flexibility, and if I remember correctly, very rapid attack speed.

[somber totem]

yea, but half of it's dmg is pierce, which would make this weapon bad for bosses, as it is a close combat weapon

[languid ibex]

Every boss has an ideal weapon, but bosses aren't the only scenarios to consider.

[lofty field]

It's not great for bosses imo, but pretty decent otherwise. You should try it.

[somber totem]

also on the other hand, why bears are harder to kill than trolls? 😂

[languid ibex]

Bears are smarter

[somber totem]

@languid ibex what melee would you pair with arbalest?

krom?

[languid ibex]

Something with a good amount of crowd control, so you might be able to pull the crossbow out again if needed. Atgeir and Battleaxes come to mind for this.

Krom is better for AoE and damage.

[stark furnace]

Don’t limit urself to one melee weapon

[wanton atlas]

just go fists

[unborn zephyr]

I LOVE FISTS omg
we just cleared Bonemass, I'm so hyped to get the mountain ones
am really hoping there are higher lvl ones later, fists skill is pretty high

[peak bronze]

Skol & Hati is not actually that bad against the Queen.

[peak bronze]

Also grown fond to fists lately. Plains tier ones are actually still nice in Ashlands even.

[unborn zephyr]

ooooooo plains ones must be new since I played! SWEET
I've only used the mountain ones and now bear

[peak bronze]

It was added in this latest update at the same time as bear things in black forest.

[unborn zephyr]

yayayay
my friends and I haven't gotten to plains yet in this world but that is HYPE

[peak bronze]

They surely great. 🤌

[solemn sand]

#suggestions message

Unsure how folks feel on this, but I thought it might make Skull Splittur a bit more useful/bring it up to speed with the other Mistland Teir weapons that use Eiter

[hazy sage]

Feel like hearths/fires should work if the shield generator is preventing the rain.

[unborn zephyr]

upvoted already c:
had to think about it and like
I think it would be pretty cool as a mead or something. Certain trophy grinds just make me sad after a while.

[solemn sand]

I just want that two hander to have something that makes it stand out like the other weapons in it's teir.

[unborn zephyr]

photorealistic baseball mitts, 2 of them

[unborn zephyr]

@light fractal yessss I'd also love to be able to plant berries tbh but that might be considered op

the small trees and lil tree saplings would be awesome, too

[light fractal]

Lots of people are against that, but I was mostly talking about regular bushes

[ripe obsidian]

Isn’t that the plant everything mod?

[stiff stag]

Being able to plant berry bushes isn't about it being OP since it's not, it's that some resources you're meant to keep going out to gather rather than having everything right at your base. Or in other words just a design decision made by the developers.

However people do seem to support the idea of purely aesthetic berry bushes, just not functional ones.

[unborn zephyr]

y'know those are really good points
yea i like the aesthetic berry bushes idea

[light fractal]

I think that decision made by the dev should be revisited

but again, I was talking about wood bushes

[viral kraken]

Being able to plant berry bushes would be lovely

The reasoning that berry bushes can’t be planted because “some resources are needed so you keep going out to gather” is kind of a poor excuse. Plenty of other reasons to leave the homestead. For minerals, fish, hunting etc

[stiff stag]

The berry bushes are specifically in terms of farming (such as crops), so none of the other stuff you mentioned is relevant to the topic, nor does any of that make it a "poor excuse". Each resource requires doing different things and going different places, for instance raspberries, blueberries, and cloud berries are each in separate biomes, vs all being right at your base if you could plant them. You also won't always be going out to gather every resource at a time, it will be separate trips depending on what you need at the time. Seems you haven't thought it over beyond the surface level.

[unborn zephyr]

it's up to the devs, it's their creation and their decision on how they envision gameplay.
and there's a huge mountain of cool suggestions, they can't do everything at once

berries are easy to find

[light fractal]

Its just that they get destroyed sometime and theres no way to repair that.

[peak bronze]

Yeah, but then again there are lots of Black forest areas in world.

I prefer how it's currently that berry bushes are not plantable but I'm up for purely cosmetic bushes (not necessarily cosmetic berry bushes), their seeds could be sold by trader similarly how ivy seeds are sold by Bog Witch.

[hybrid gull]

or we could add the "deconstruct" button the hammer has on the cultivator to uproot real bushes we find in the world so we can move them back to our base

those bushes don't need to be "new" in any way, and you're still forced to go out and find them in the first place

and I agree it's a poor excuse to say "but you're supposed to go out and gather respurces", because if that's what we're going for, they should make it so each biome's vegetable can only grow there, so you're forced to go out and "gather"

we already need to go out for all the pelts, metals, even basic materials like wood and stone, mushrooms, flowers... if they give us the option to plant carrots at home, it makes more sense to let us plant other stuff as well, since it's all "farming" skill

or... instead of the cultivator, there could be like an iron shovel that let's you uproot stuff, but not only bushes, also those small fir trees from the BF and the those sexy small trees from the plains

[languid ibex]

I enjoy marking where large patches of berries and mushrooms are on the map, it really adds to the exploration side of things when uncovering the map. People can say it wouldn't change much, but it'd just be one step in the direction that eventually leads to nothing needing to be foraged at all.

[hybrid gull]

then they should make it so we have to keep running around to gather honey from their original location instead of moving them back to our base

[languid ibex]

It'd take away from the excitement, like finding a patch of 14 berry bushes all next to eachother, and turn it into-- meh I already have my berry patch at home, who cares.

[hybrid gull]

I would argue that mushrooms can be kept around, since I doubt vikings knew how to make mushroom starters and prepare the soil appropriately, but a bush is a bush: if it's already thriving in the wild, it won't hurt it to move it around, as long as there's soil and sun light

the fact "foraging" is part of the "farming" skill is also something that bothers me, but I've come to terms with it... somewhat...

[languid ibex]

Besides, portal chain farming is already a thing, and works alongside discovering large patches of forage-able goods. Once I mark all the big patches of goods, I will build a portal chain connecting the highest yield patches, and collect from them all in under 5 minutes.

[hybrid gull]

no one says you have to uproot those bushes. It becomes a playstyle choice: you can keep running around or bring a few back home

much like how I could choose swords over axes

[languid ibex]

Sure, it's about level of importance, but in those cases players can just build their bases around berry bushes as well.

[hybrid gull]

and that farming strategy is pretty pointless for a nomap noportal run

uh, sure, then a raid happens and somehow your bushes get destroyed... very fun experience

[languid ibex]

Right, just laying out the options already present, I'm not here saying it's a universal fix.

[hybrid gull]

potentially, all bushes in your world could be destroyed and you wouldn't be able to use those resources at all: they should be renewable, if we really wanna go there

[languid ibex]

That's a bit of a reach, that scenario is virtually impossible considering the scope of Valheim's world map.

Players with nomap noportal expect things to be a bit more immersive, and invite the challenge of leaving home to forage.

Defending your berry bushes is another added layer to raid defense, it's not necessarily a downside.

[hybrid gull]

it's more a matter of "should they be allowed to go extinct?" Because plants, unlike ores, are renewable

[hybrid gull]

I play like that, and that's not true: it's a pain to go out just for berries

[languid ibex]

Okay well you choose to play that way, you could be utilizing portal chain farming.

[hybrid gull]

without a map I can't place 29582 markers like you do <.<

[languid ibex]

You can still portal chain in nomap.

[hybrid gull]

but that's offtopic

[unborn zephyr]

I aspire to place that many map markers O.O

[hybrid gull]

world settings have nothing to do with the question I proposed

[languid ibex]

[unborn zephyr]

that is fierce

[languid ibex]

I've about doubled that now 😛

[hybrid gull]

every major plant element in the game can be replanted (veggies, trees) and some small trees even give you a seed... for their bigger variant instead of the small one (another inconsistency), so it makes no sense for bushes in specific to not be replantable

[unborn zephyr]

I use abbreviations, so 6 raspberries is just 6r
dungeon is d, etc

[hybrid gull]

that is pointless and off topic

[unborn zephyr]

ty I did my best

[languid ibex]

I will eventually replace them with emoji symbols in a similar fashion

[unborn zephyr]

omg omgomg
my friends are gonna have such cursed map markers when they interact with the map table next LOL ty

[languid ibex]

There's a reason, exploration and foraging. It's been stated by the developers, it's just how it is.

[hybrid gull]

ah, yeah, that again

[unborn zephyr]

y so cranky

[languid ibex]

Haha yep, that. Developers do be developing.

[hybrid gull]

I'm talking about the reductive nature of "that's how it is" and the quite illogical application of the statement in this case: I'm not talking exploration, I'm talking renewability of resources

[languid ibex]

You're making an argument that every berry bush could be destroyed though, I think I've accidentally broken a few myself in about 8 playthroughs and that's it.

[hybrid gull]

and are you telling me those bushes alone is what validates exploration as a concept in the game?

[languid ibex]

Not at all, there's also dandelions, mushrooms, thistle, etc.

[hybrid gull]

so changing how bushes work wouldn't change the exploration aspect

[hybrid gull]

so this makes no sense

[languid ibex]

Again, it'd just be one step into the direction where everything should just be plant-able.

[hybrid gull]

and exploration is done just once, when you don't know where the stuff is. Once you know, it's not "exploration" anymore

[languid ibex]

The arguments made for bushes being plant-able currently are the farming items, once berry bushes switch sides, the argument for everything else gets more points against it.

[hybrid gull]

I am talking, in fact, about all plants, of course

[languid ibex]

Right, and you don't have to forage if you don't want to.

[hybrid gull]

I wasn't talking about just berry bushes either

[hybrid gull]

as it turns out, the game can be completed without food, so yes, you can avoid foraging altogether

and now that I'm thinking, berries are the weakest food in the entire game, so they're not even that big of a game changer. I'd say using them as decorations around the base would give them some useful purpose in the long run

[languid ibex]

#suggestions message

[hybrid gull]

which makes me question why you've been contrarian to the idea, or at least it seemed to me you were providing reasons to NOT allow bushes/plants to be moved, when you also support that suggestion you linked...

[languid ibex]

How'd I know you'd ask that

One idea is for the expansion of plants for cosmetic reasons, the other wants berry bushes to be plant-able as they are.

[hybrid gull]

I was discussing the general idea, and you haven't mentioned even once "I'd be fine with..." instead

[languid ibex]

Once you brought it up I linked a suggestion I liked that does exactly that.

[hybrid gull]

and I'm not sure how you could separate a cosmetic bush from a generated bush

[languid ibex]

Cosmetic bushes don't change the foraging aspects intended by the developers, but also let you utilize them for decoration.

[hybrid gull]

you're not really justifying any of the things I pointed out

[languid ibex]

It's a win-win.

Justifying what exactly?

[hybrid gull]

and the suggestion linked doesn't necessarily rule out berry bushes still producing fruit, it just says "they don't have to"

but okay

[languid ibex]

Right, and they're also a secondary addition to the over-all idea, which is just being able to utilize some of the smaller trees/shrubs for decor.

2 aspects I can agree with, and would be okay with.

[wanton atlas]

just no

listen to me when I say no to plantable berry bushes

and stop fighting other users

whoever keeps on fighting this topic every 3-4 weeks

[rose swan]

🫐

[obsidian willow]

Can’t believe my very first suggestion got so much “hate”.

[viral kraken]

Well, it’s kinda a suggestion to remove a core mechanic of the game.

There’s ways to increase stability

[obsidian willow]

Yeah, I thought about my suggestion, but I realized it wouldn’t make much sense.
But I’m happy for all of the responses. 😆

[rose swan]

That’s ok, it happens! Some suggestions just don’t get traction

Don’t let it discourage you

[light fractal]

Pointy hat shouldnt have eitr regen on the account that its an early game item that can spoil stuff for new players.

[rose swan]

Make a pointier hat in the Mistlands that gives +1% Eitr regen

[wanton atlas]

pointiest hat?

[stiff stag]

The pointierest.

[random monolith]

The stability system is a big part of what makes this building system one of my favorites out of any game

[obsidian willow]

Yeah, I get it

[hexed jewel]

#suggestions message it's functional main use is actually withstanding the lava in ashlands, but yeah it would be cool to also have it be stronger

[peak bronze]

The pointy Everest?

[subtle depot]

I will say, I do agree that it can be annoying to build stuff within the stability system sometimes.
Especially when you are building stuff that absolutely should not fall apart due to stability.
Like a big pyramid.

But in this case, i think it would be better to improve the system somehow, rather than removing it.

[light fractal]

about flametal beams. I assume the main use for it is to build bridges over lava, and nothing else

oh... someone said that already

[languid ibex]

Have we any information about a new metal in Deep North?

Maybe there's plans for that metal to be the final stability height, as some structures could indicate progressing into the final biome.

[ashen tinsel]

The rested/resting buffs (pretty sure wet too) already note changes to eitr regen, too late on that.

[wanton atlas]

@obsidian willow so #building-screenshots and those channels aren't enough for you? 🤔

[languid ibex]

I could see it being useful to have an adventure blog of sorts using the format #1381541790674452571 has.

I always enjoy reading other's stories within Valheim.

[obsidian willow]

Yes, I would love too see a channel, dedicated for showcasing a world, and how it evolves.

[rose swan]

I feel such a channel would be niche, and underutilized 🤔

[stiff stag]

Sounds like a personal blog which doesn't really belong here, especially since each post will be buried over time defeating the point.

[rose swan]

I actually think the discord server is in a pretty solid spot as far as structuring goes. Lots of channels that make sense, but not too many to where there is clutter.

[languid ibex]

All I can say is that I know I would utilize it, and would likely read/keep up with posts within a channel like that. It's difficult to assume how niche it would be or if posts being buried over time would keep others from looking back.

Though I will say, I don't think the channel being used too much is a point against it, and could still be worth a trial run.

[weary patio]

@stiff stag So, I'm curious why you oppose being able to break down caught fish into raw fish earlier than the iron age, when literally from launch until the release of the food preparation table you could prepare fish using the base cauldron. My suggestion is about restoring a game feature that I feel like was incidentally or accidentally removed, considering being able to cook the fish you could catch was something you could do ..the entire existence of the game previous to the implementation of the food preparation table.

[stiff stag]

Given that fish were moved over it's irrelevant how it worked prior to that.

Also, avoid calling out specific people for their votes: #suggestion-discussion message

[weary patio]

You sure seem to be doing it.

Moved over?

So pointlessly and needlessly changing a key game element is irrelevant? That makes zero sense. Taking away something that has existed since the game's inception for no logical reason. Ok.

[languid ibex]

I think it's pretty clear that fishing tends to revolve around the prep table, and it's not a big deal that it requires iron to build. Most players will set sail for the swamp/search for swamps around the time they encounter Haldor anyways.

[weary patio]

Haldor can be found pretty early in black forest exploration. Long before obtaining the swamp key.

You can obtain the fishing pole and bait long before fighting the elder.

How does fishing revolve around a crafting bench that didnt exist until recently when it has been an element of the game since it launched?

That makes zero logical sense.

[stiff stag]

You act like the game has been a finished product for years when that's not the case at all. It's a game still in development and in a stage where things are subject to change however the developers desire. If you can't handle that then you should only play these types of games after they are finished.

[weary patio]

Yeah, only 4 years has the fishing system existed, how dare I think its poor foresight to arbitrarily change a key feature of it for no apparent or logical reason.

Let's just assume everybody likes to progress through the biomes at breakneck speed and new players won't find it weird at all they can catch fish they cant do anything with.

[subtle depot]

It kinda does make very little sense that you need the prep table for fish at all.
I have caught fish and roasted them on a stick above a campfire irl.

I think you should be able to roast your fish above a campfire as it is when you catch it. +5 hp for each tier of quality or something like that.
Keep the prep table for making fish fillets and the other recipes from that as it is

[stiff stag]

If they make it a separate food item if cooked that way and make it have lower stats than properly prepared fish then sure.

[weary patio]

I mean, cooked fish already has the same stats as deer stew. So why does it need to have lower stats than that? That would make it lower than meadows proteins.

Defeating the entire purpose.

[sick breach]

I think making the prep table use tin rather than iron is the better solution here. Makes fish usable at the exact same time you can reliably catch it. What is the argument for it being in iron age?

[weary patio]

Cooked fish is literally black forest level appropriate ..which is why I dont see any point in not making it available until you're well into the swamps.

There is zero rational or logical argument why cooked fish shouldn't be an item you can craft as soon as you can obtain the fishing pole.

The argument of "just because" is what's irrelevant. If you make it so you cant even break down fish to make cooked fish until the swamps - you are making cooked fish an obsolete standalone item. Because if you're in the swamps by the time you can make basic cooked fish - you are already getting access to materials that allow you to make better food than cooked fish.

[stiff stag]

The developers deciding to make it work that way is the most relevant thing to the topic and ultimately the only thing that matters in the end, whether you like or understand that or not.

[sick breach]

People are asking for an argument in favour of the preparation station using iron. "Cause it does" or "Cause the developers wanted it to" are terrible, terrible arguments.

[weary patio]

The hilarity of you assuming they made it that way intentionally, and it wasn't an oversight they likely just missed given their workload - is pretty wild, bud.

I am just gonna say, I am fairly certain if the devs didnt want people to be able to break down fish at all until after their base craftable item was obsolete.. they probably would have done something about it sooner, and why is the fishing pole available from haldor ..and not the bog witch? Think it through.

[stiff stag]

It's hilarious you've convinced yourself it isn't intentional when there's nothing backing such a nonsense claim.

[subtle depot]

i could see trying to limit the number of new base structures per biome as a reasoning for making it a swamp tier build piece

you also need to find the bog witch for the feasts, which is the other main thing you can make with the food prep table early

[stiff stag]

https://valheim.com/news/patch-0-219-13-the-bog-witch
From the patch notes for the bog witch update:

Recipes for uncooked food has been moved from the Cauldron to the Food Preparation Table
Crafting the various fish into raw fish fits that description, seems like the evidence points toward it in fact being intentional. Just because you don't like the reality doesn't mean it's a mistake.

[weary patio]

And you not realizing by definition that oversight can mean an unintentional side effect of an intentional action - just increases the hilarity of your attempts to try to justify something that makes zero logical sense. But ok, have fun with that. Trolling the suggestions with negativity seems to just be your goal here.

[stiff stag]

The only one acting like a troll at the moment is you, so good luck with that. No worth discussing things further with someone like you. I've provided proof of it being intentional, you have nothing backing your claims that were pulled out of thin air, fairly open and shut case plain for anyone to see.

[languid ibex]

Oh because everything to do with fish happens on that table. Not exactly a controversial statement there.

Could it be crafted with tin? Sure, but it's not a massive ordeal that it takes iron. Yeah you can run into Haldor earlier than you'd acquire iron, but assuming that's the only deciding factor is a bit extra.

[sick breach]

" you have nothing backing your claims" other than pointing out how nothing else about how fishing becomes unlocked or the stats of cooked fish aligns with an intention by the devs to lock fish to the iron age, making an oversight more likely as an explanation. Magick has made these arguments repeatedly and repeatedly you refuse to address them because in your own words, "No worth discussing things further with someone like you."

This discussion began as asking what reason is there for fish to be locked to the iron age instead of the black forest stage. You have not one argument in favour of it; you are simply being a contrarian troll. Stating that the "Devs chose it so deal with it" is not some nuanced angle on the discussion, it's just the pointless observation you reach for when you have nothing to contribute.

[languid ibex]

Besides, fish still can be utilized as decor until you unlock the prep table.

[weary patio]

@languid ibex You're not looking at this from a new player perspective at all. Which is fine. But it's really reductive

[languid ibex]

I don't see how I'm not though? Is placing the prep table one biome later going to massively effect players?

It can also be viewed as a nice unlockable and an anwser to a standing question.

[weary patio]

You realize fishing has been available since launch. And that since launch, until that table was recently released, you could break down fish with the base cauldron. Right?

[languid ibex]

What does that have to do with anything though?

[sick breach]

Its going to make an expensive fishing rod purchase completely worthless until swamp, at which point you can make cooked fish, a food that will be outmoded by the swamp tier food you'll have by then.

[weary patio]

So logic isnt an issue for either of you is what you're saying. Cool. Got it.

[languid ibex]

Fish remain relevant for a long time, fish wraps, meads, etc.

[weary patio]

And they used to be relevant much earlier. What is difficult to understand here?

[languid ibex]

They're relevant alongside foods at their level. They are only on par with bear meat.

The ease of access alleviates the players needs to hunt bears, and to just go fishing.

[sick breach]

They remain relevant only AT plains+, and are useless up till then.

Imagine if cooked boar meat was locked behind a cauldron. Would you say this doesnt have an effect on people cause the prep table is just one biome later?

[languid ibex]

Yes because there are plenty of other options, fish just have the bonus of being abundant and risk free.

[weary patio]

Cooked fish is a food relevant at the black forest level 🤦🏻

[languid ibex]

It's the same stats as Bear meat, which is not easy to acquire, which would take away from players utilizing it.

[weary patio]

You damn near cant avoid bears while exploring the black forest. And you still have to hunt them extensively for their hides and trophies - so your argument of only hunting them for meat - is fallacious, if nor utterly insincere.

[sick breach]

Its a safer alternative to bear meat but requires huge timesink in finding Haldor, acquiring gold to buy rod, fishing, then crafting a prep table with tin. In other words it would have a perfect niche.

[weary patio]

I mean if you want to make the bear armor.. I had to kill 20 bears to get 1 trophy.

[languid ibex]

I literally just unlocked the prep table and only had 3 fish, but once I realized I couldn't cook them it didn't hinder one single thing. I still had plenty of food options.

After that I went on a massive fishing trip, pretty much just as I was running out of bear meat stored.

Luckily, they're the same stats.

[weary patio]

Well good for you. When I started playing this game on 2021, and for the last several years - cooked fish was a staple food item for the earlier levels of exploring. Bear meat didnt exist.

[sick breach]

My guy, it doesnt matter if you found a playstyle that isnt reliant on fish. That doesnt mean the absence of fish at BF stage is inconsequential, since it forces everyone into your playstyle.

Again, by this logic it would be perfectly ok locking cooked boar meat behind the cauldron, when obviously thats a huge impact.

[languid ibex]

That's great, I was around then too, but the vision on these items was changed.

[weary patio]

If the vision on fishing was changed, why was only this one single aspect changed?

[languid ibex]

Yikes, that's not even close to the same scenario.

[weary patio]

Literally everything else remains the same except when/how you can break down the fish.

[sick breach]

If they wanted to make fish iron age, why not make fishing pole and bait locked until you have killed Elder, like the Thunderstone?

[languid ibex]

iirc many players complained about how abundant the list was within the cauldron, and this relieved that to a degree.

[languid ibex]

They didn't, they wanted cooked fish, you can still fish with your friends and display your catches, and enjoy that peaceful aspect of it all.

[sick breach]

Sure it is, people can use deer meat, neck meat, and honey/berries. I play like that already. No issue right?

[languid ibex]

Okay but the selections there are introductory, extremely limited, and base level where stats are concerned. This isn't true for Raw fish, players have been introduced to food, there's plenty to choose from, and the stats are starting to vary based on differing factors.

[weary patio]

...yet you can build the mead pot at the same time as the cauldron, because you can also crafter the brew barrel around that time ..so why not the prep table when you can acquire the fishing pole? See what I'm saying? Your entire argument lacks actual forethought or logic that refutes anything I've said.

[weary patio]

Finding raw fish doesn't give access to any recipes other than cooked fish.

[languid ibex]

Yeah you're just refusing to accept why it isn't a huge problem.

Many players might question why they can't cook their fish, ask the question here or on google, and end up on a journey that lead with the question "There's iron???"

[weary patio]

Maybe not for you.

Restricting everyone to a certain play style in a game thats supposed to be a sandbox, in fact does create problems.

[languid ibex]

Not for anyone, otherwise you'd actually hear of this causing issues. There's options, and plenty of them.

[languid ibex]

So you want to unlock everything immediately?

[sick breach]

Just not fish until plains, yet for some reason drip fed to you from the black forest stage.

[languid ibex]

Most people won't discover Haldor until sailing about anyways, it's a somewhat rare occurrence to have him on your spawn island.

[sick breach]

Strawman argument. We want to unlock fish when we unlock fish, instead of having useless fish objects cluttering our storage until iron age.

[languid ibex]

They just said sandbox games shouldn't have restrictions, but there's evidence of that throughout the entire game.

[stiff stag]

And that's because valheim simply has some sandbox elements to it, it is not a true sandbox where literally anything goes.

[weary patio]

That's a gross misrepresentation of anything I've said, and failure of the logic you've used in this conversation.

I gave a valid logical reason why breaking down fish should be available sooner - because the fishing pole is available sooner.

You have given zero valid logical rebuttal as to this is a valid question.

Now you want to completely misrepresent what I've said to try to give your lack of a logical point any credibility.

Ya know what thats called? A strawman fallacy, and its absolutely the response of someone who has no rational argument.

[sick breach]

Again no he didnt, thats a strawman argument. Direct quote is "restricting everyone to a certain play style in a game that's supposed to be a sandbox, in fact does create problems."

[languid ibex]

Perhaps don't present such strange arguments and you won't net strange answers.

[languid ibex]

Right, which happens throughout the game.

[weary patio]

Nothing about my argument was strange, just because you lack the basic reading comprehension to understand it.

[languid ibex]

You'll be alright champ, no need to throw out insults because you're failing to make a point to a random person in a discord.

[sick breach]

Youre the only one who made the argument for no restrictions. No one else said that, just you. Its the whole strawman fallacy thing youre refusing to learn about.

[weary patio]

I'm throwing out insults? Bud, you've been trying to condescend most of this conversation.

[sick breach]

Irrelevant, point is you completely misrepresented what he said and now youre jumping ship to a different argument.

[languid ibex]

Yikes, this is getting a little silly guys, the point was clear, restrictions place people into certain playstyles left and right, you can even look at weaknesses for a direct comparison.

[stiff stag]

Honestly just going to let them self destruct at this point.

[languid ibex]

Yeah fantastic idea to be fair, reiterating the same point as if no one is understanding is just indicative of how this isn't much of a discussion.

[sick breach]

Actually your point used to be that its not an issue if fish cant be prepped until one biome later.

When it was shown that realistically fish isnt useful until the plains your point became that fish was a redundant food option for bear meat.

When it was pointed out this is locking people to one playstyle, your point became that a game needs sooome restrictions.

And when people pointed out thats a strawman fallacy, the point you had been making the whole time is that unavoidable funneling into single playstyles exist elsewhere.

Every time you lose the argument you pretend we were arguing something different.

[sick breach]

Still pretending you have something to say?

[stiff stag]

He never lost the argument though? Like who determined that? 😂

[sick breach]

Anyways thanks for the reminder of why arguing on the internet sucks, im gonna spend time with less obstinate people.

[languid ibex]

My point remained that it was never a huge deal to acquire it during the swamps. This is a bit of a reach, I'm not sure how you landed where you did, but no one is decidedly right or wrong in a discussion like this, we can only interpret based on what we see, and what makes sense to us.

[sick breach]

Sure bud, no one can ever be right or wrong. I can see how that philosophy would attract.

We've come full circle on the argument; we're back to "its no big deal to lock till the swamp", to which im supposed to repeat my line: "cooked fish is garbage food at swamp and will remain so until plains, its actually a substantial altering of the fish's value. You know what isn't? Making the prep table with tin instead of iron."

Go on, next you say cooked fish is redundant cooked bear meat.

[languid ibex]

You've just made a nice list of the things I'd said in favor of my original point, so thanks for that to be honest.

[zenith sand]

i'm just watching this happen with popcorn at this point, this argument is somewhat entertaining (a little bit childish sometimes though, but what do i know)

[stiff stag]

You've convinced me, they should increase the stats of cooked fish to match the biome it's now intended for it to be accessed in.

[languid ibex]

To recap my points surrounding that it's not a huge deal Cooked Fish isn't accessible until Swamps for anyone else reading:

• Haldor isn't going to be commonly discovered on spawn islands
• Bear Meat has the same stats
• Fish can still be utilized as decor(or even placed in a pond)
• It can be a motivational factor to move the player into the Swamps to acquire iron
• Restricting player's playstyles is often intentional, and allows developers to point the player in a direction of their choosing (say hunting bears in this case)
• There's an assumed excitement to be had when the player realized they can now use their fish as food when crafting the Prep table (where otherwise it'd just be bait variations listed, and in some cases with no trophies found, nothing is listed)

[wanton atlas]

yes. that's how I also feel :/

[languid ibex]

Are you against trying it out for a little bit? 😮

[lost ibex]

well i didn't dislike the idea, it's fun just for symbolic pov, and since you don't have access to any eitr food it won't make spoilers or any difference if has some regen on it..

[peak bronze]

#suggestions message @lost river Deathsquitos are nerfed already much earlier. What gear are you using? It's just possible you are undergeared and not intented to get to the plains yet, which means you have very little means to deal with the mobs in there, as it's the 5th biome in order.
-# Although they are easy to kill even with crude bow and wooden arrow as it has only 10 hp.

[lost river]

Fully upgraded Fenris set. 🤷‍♂️

And I don't have problem with dealing them because I one shoot them BUT the problem was there if you understand what I write, they came out of nowhere the 1st one back attacked me and I didn't had a time to turn around and hit it because when I turned around I got instantly stinged and got into the stun animation and after the 1st stun I didn't had any chance to move from that single position because the other two came by 1 by 1 in literally perfect timings and made my character into a stun animation loop. Which is an issue.

[peak bronze]

There re 2 solutions to deal with them easier: root harnesk or anti-sting concoction.

[lost river]

So I had no chance to escape or deal with them because I didn't had the an opportunity from the 1st stun. 😂 I even had a fully upgraded root harnesk set but I didn't know that it helps againts Pierce.

[peak bronze]

The harnesk piece alone grants resistance against pierce, which reduces their damage significantly, so no need for other root armor pieces.

[lost river]

Thanks!

[peak bronze]

Some mix up heavy helmet and fenris legs for balanced defence and good movement speed.

[lost river]

Sad thing that I lose set bonus but I guess that would be OP if 2 would be enough for bonus instead of 3. 😂

[peak bronze]

But yeah they sometimes can get you off guard and more than 1 at once can be fatal.

[peak bronze]

Fortunately fire weakness from harnesk is countered with fire barley wine, which grants you resistance. So without the wine be careful against torch fulings and shamans.

[lost river]

I have Fenris Hood and Legs that gives Fire Res.

[peak bronze]

Only the full set grants fire resistance.

[lost river]

Ohh I see. 🤦‍♂️ If it is under the set desc then it's set bonus. I see! You are right!

[peak bronze]

Fire resistance is from the set bonus, not individual pieces. And fire weakness comes from wearing any root armor piece, which is why I mentioned the fire barley wine that grants you resistance and which overrides the weakness.

[lost river]

So set bonuses should be only used in certaion situations? Better to not be in full set all time?

[mellow pawn]

I think stagger limit is affected by max health. It's easy to accidentally get to low health when returning from a run and the food timers are running out

[lofty wave]

A player’s stagger limit is 40% of their max health

[peak bronze]

It depends on your playstyle, I personally enjoy light armor sets due to their set bonuses, but then again I have more experience in game.

[ashen tinsel]

Most people forget that they can roll to dodge attacks (block+jump), which grants invincibility for a short time with good timing. Even if being chainstunned like this it should give you an option out. Recent update added a fun visual effect if you do it too.

Gotta learn the deathsquito audio que, they get everyone

[lofty wave]

Deathsquitos have one of the lowest attack hitboxes so even though they fly jumping works too