suggestion-discussion

[pale oasis]

But I think the devs want iron in the swamp because iron was primarily harvested in bogs and along riverbanks in Scandinavia, not traditional mines (like in the mountains).

[errant mauve]

I said the other week, what about a game mode that scales up the star levels of mobs in previous biomes as you complete bosses.
So, when you slay Bonemass, swamp Draugur are 70% 1 star 20 % 2 star
When you slay Moder, Draugur are 50% 2 star, 40% 1 star
So when you return to those biomes, theres always some increase in challenge

You could even have those fabled 3+ star enemies

[novel crescent]

That's the point of word progression. You progress to become better version of previous self.

We are talking about the magical land of Valheim. There is not enough room for realism, when you have talking ravens, walking trolls and trees.

[pale oasis]

Isn't that for the devs to decide?

[remote dawn]

Thought my suggestion would be a little better than a tie

[pale drum]

#suggestions message I think it's a bit too late to go back on this one. Swamps really aren't too hard once you get the hang of it; it's supposed to be a significant difficulty spike from forest.

[languid ibex]

Not to worry! I was really speaking of a general feeling behind it, you don't exactly come to mind when speaking to this point, as we've had discussions around this and I know your position isn't that it is a botched implementation.

[remote dawn]

winter biome seems like an even bigger difficulty spike tbf

especially on harder difficulties

[languid ibex]

So you want the difficulty to massively jump after the Black Forest?

[remote dawn]

No no, i am saying it should stay as it is

[languid ibex]

Ah okay

Sorry I thought you'd made the suggestion and were defending it, my bad

[remote dawn]

no worries

swamp is manageable as long you stay out of abomination way and not wander at night
the dungeons you can cheese easily

[pale drum]

Abominations are pretty manageable. The second time I encountered one, I almost killed it with an atgeir and dodge rolls

[remote dawn]

you're pretty good then

i am afraid of being hit at all times

i either slip by with a sliver of health or die instantly

[languid ibex]

Random thought: I hope we get an arrow made out of the celestial feathers from the Fallen Valkyries.

Utilizing their purple fire would be neat as well. 🤔

[eternal wyvern]

Has it been suggested that we be able to auto pickup eggs that have the "too cold" status.

[arctic wharf]

I believe so, yes.

[arctic wharf]

Also ♻️ I believe, but I agree it is a great idea. Feels like an easy use for the celestial feathers.

[languid ibex]

Yeah that's why I didn't suggest it, I saw it in there 😅

Just expressing the hope here, but it would be nice to have a sink for them instead of the 1 time weapon crafts.

[arctic wharf]

There is a fair few materials that could use some sinks for them yeah 🤭
Thankfully they have added more and more, but even so there could be yet more.

[granite geyser]

then you are now contradicting yourself...

the current tiers make it so the weaponry you find just after swamps make you more effective against the enemies from the previous biome.

That's progression, as you literally just mentioned

what you're suggesting would accomplish the opposite

it's like asking for the ability to craft an item that makes you immune to wet in BF or before...

that would make the main hazard of swamps completely worthless

[novel crescent]

How becoming stronger is a contradiction to my statement?

[granite geyser]

#suggestion-discussion message

[novel crescent]

In a vast majority of games progression means becoming stronger to be able to withstand enemies before you, not after. Current progression design makes no sense.

[languid ibex]

There's a difference between withstanding, and overpowering with ease. Swamps gives you every tool you'd need to fight the enemies, and Black Forest gives you enough to survive with to acquire it. You're playing a survival game after all.

[pale oasis]

What makes no sense is getting the tools to trivialize a biome before reaching that biome.

[novel crescent]

But we get tools to trivialize dark forest. What's the difference?

[languid ibex]

How is the Black Forest trivialized by Meadows gear?

[novel crescent]

You get flint items before bronze.

[rose swan]

I wouldn’t say that trivializes the Black Forest biome though

[languid ibex]

Yeah no clue what you're saying with this, flint weaponry is not the equivalent to silver vs undead.

[novel crescent]

Torches vs greydwarfs?

Fire arrows?

[languid ibex]

I think you're either reaching or misunderstand what trivializing is. A torch or even flame arrows still offer a challenge in the Black Forest until you get better equipment.

Especially when you get into other enemies that exist there, and how much quicker everything moves compared to the swamp.

[novel crescent]

Right now I talk about not overtrivializing but about making sense. You can increase undead mob hp in swamps, so that silver weapons would damage the same as normal weapons now.

You get silver after swamp, which is useless.

[languid ibex]

You can, but I wouldn't as it's just attempting to replicate the current balance anyways.

Useless? Undead enemies are abundant in Valheim, I can only assume you're not much further beyond discovering silver with a comment like that.

[novel crescent]

Ahem. I am playing since 2022.

[languid ibex]

So you should know how many undead creatures there are in Valheim.

I still utilize silver arrows in the Ashlands for their increased stagger plus the weakness.

[novel crescent]

Yet it is useless. In current state. Because the swamp bow deals more damage in plains overall.

Mountain → Swamp → Plains
Silver → Iron → Black Iron

[languid ibex]

I fail to see the connection in the argument there tbh, weaknesses are still going to take precedence.

[novel crescent]

So you are stuck with weapons from previous bioms.

For the most of the time.

[languid ibex]

Yeah this makes no sense sorry, this is where I hop out.

[novel crescent]

Check what abiotic factor did with the progression.

It is the best survival game so far.

[languid ibex]

Best is subjective, try saying instead, "I personally enjoy that progression much more."

[novel crescent]

Because it makes sense 😄

[lament zinc]

I think someting very trivial is overlooked here.

If Mountain comes before swamp, the entire mountain and swamp monsters need to be rebalanced.
Because there's no way one can kill a Golem with the bronze mace the way one can do that with an iron mace.
All weapons would need a rebalancing, armors would, the entire raid events would.

Swapping two biomes would in the end cause a lot more problems as they would solve.

And I doubt it's worth the shot.

Right now, one of the good parts of the game is that you can use items from a previous biome far into the biomes after that because of their additional stats.
Swapping biomes would also counter that, sort of forcing players to follow the same threaded patern each and every time they play this game.

I don't think that would add to playability much. If not at all.

[languid ibex]

Valheim makes sense to me, and seemingly other people given the amount of downvotes.

[granite geyser]

useful, not completely broken

and torch can barely even count as a weapon as to make its fire dmg efficient in any way

[granite geyser]

i have many doubts about that...

as you seem to keep thinking swamps is the ONLY biome with undead enemies

[novel crescent]

Dunno, why do assume, that I think so.

[granite geyser]

because you are only taking into account that silver is worthless because you find it one biome after more dangerous undead enemies are shown

[novel crescent]

Yes. It is worthless in plains.

[granite geyser]

progression is based on making you stronger (you LITERALLY said this)

[novel crescent]

Yaglooth is a far far far progression.

[granite geyser]

that's what silver does. You finished swamps, you are now rewarded with much better means to fight undead

[granite geyser]

and silver sword is STILL the best weapon against him...

and it's also a main boss, which are the most important enemies in the game

and that's also despite being just ONE biome higher (so idk why you mentioned is "far far far into progression". he's literally right after)

[novel crescent]

You still have to get: black iron and barley to make a fire resistance wine.

[leaden kindle]

That's pretty easy. Black metal is one of the easiest metals to get

[toxic trail]

You don't need black metal to make fire mead

[granite geyser]

and cloudberries and barley are pretty much as easy to get as breathing, especially cloudberries

[granite geyser]

windmill for flour

[toxic trail]

You don't need flour to make fire mead

[granite geyser]

true

[sick breach]

Only barley

[toxic trail]

You just need barley and cloudberries

Fire mead was super handy in the mountains vs Cultists

[sick breach]

Currently doing a dagger and bow playthrough, and man that root armor did NOT come in handy fighting cultists.

[toxic trail]

No no, bad armor for that 😂

[sick breach]

But worth it to get fenris armor. Best defensive armor in the game.

As mister Miyagi says, "Best defence, no be there."

[toxic trail]

But speaking of progression, I find the fishing baits a bit...taxing...for their benefit.

[pale drum]

#suggestions message Atgeir stagger is also pretty busted. You can stagger enemies in Ashlands with a fricken BF-tier atgeir.

[arctic wharf]

I am fine with it working well, and with some lesser enemies being able to be bullied. However I have been enlightened to just how many enemies can be bullied into pretty much being perma stunlocked. 🤭
Not OK in my opinion.

[sick breach]

Yeah as much as I luuuuuv the atgeir, it could use some nerfing. Being able to stagger multiple enemies in a wide area with next to no windup isn't healthy. I think the secondary attack should keep it's knockback but completely lose it's stagger. It should just be an emergency maneuver to create space or manhandle multiple enemies at once.

[stark furnace]

Bringing down atgeir secondary stagger multiplier from 6x —> to 3x would be a good step in the right direction

[tulip pecan]

I can get behind that

[pale drum]

Or even 4x
I'm of the opinion that 3x would be fine, but it might piss some people off

[peak bronze]

Most atgeir enjoyers if stagger nerfed:
💢

[pale drum]

I didn't know that the cultivator was usable as a weapon.

[peak bronze]

Oops, slight misclick.

[lament zinc]

About this: #suggestions message

You do see the upgrades.

The value's shown in the upgrade screen of any crafting station are the values the item have after upgrading them. Not the current values.

If you want to compare both, select the item you want to upgrade on the crafting station, then hold your mouse over the same item in your inventory.
That way you're able to see the current stats and the new ones and thus can compare them.

[peak bronze]

Although cultivator could resemble as the fork farmers use lol.

[stark furnace]

Hmm idk I feel like most atgeir enjoyers know it’s insanely busted and wouldn’t mind

Maybe I’m biased idk

[wanton atlas]

I would say yes 🤔

[peak bronze]

Dunno, there are many people who dislike nerfs of any sort.

[stark furnace]

That do be true

[peak bronze]

"Mrah my OP build why it was nerfed!"

[tulip pecan]

I tend towards a very much "buff to bring in-line, never nerf" philosophy myself, but sometimes even I agree a nerf is what is easiest and necessary

I do think any prospective nerf should always be very carefully evaluated though, as it has major potential to ruin players' gamefeel

That said, just in case it should be restated, the primary concern of balancing in this case is to ensure all weapon types have their strengths and weaknesses, as well as remaining feeling fun to use

[languid ibex]

I typically avoid the Atgeir when possible because it feels too strong.

[tulip pecan]

I avoid the atgeir because I can't wield it with a round shield; we are not the same 👔

#suggestions message
I like this because currently it really is pure FAFO to figure out if you're strong enough to pull off a parry on a new enemy (or starred version of existing enemy). Losing stamina in a fight can still be deadly, but not deadly like the death sentence of a failed parry (that you had no way of knowing would fail).

[sick breach]

Im not worried if they come after us with atgeirs, they just got nerfed into the ground lol.

[tulip pecan]

That is one flaw of Valheim - enemy appearance doesn't really telegraph danger.
For the first few biomes it does - you see big scary trolls and abominations and can size them up as bad news that you should stay away from. But eventually you get bold enough with new gear and you learn you can parry a log swing with a well timed buckler. But you try that on the little goblin in the next biome over and he'll kick your can in.
Hence me saying it's FAFO.

[errant mauve]

Thats just the nature of going from one biome to another though.

A Lox will take much more of a beating than a Fuling which you would expect from how they look, just as the mobs get progressively scarier looking as you go through the game.

One of the things that I didnt like about the first couple of hours of Enshrouded is that the first thing it makes you fight is these terrifying zombies which are the weakest mobs in the game.

In Heim, you bully woodland critters.

Reading more context of what you have said, I think I see what you are saying, but I dont like the idea of reworking combat to make hard and very hard more fluid unless this is only added to those difficulties. The game is carefully balanced for normal difficulty, the maths stops mathing when you change those sliders, just like how you'll probably have too much spare items if you set the drop rate to 1.5x and you just have to deal with it.

Imo, the real difficulty slide with Heim is how fast you progress and how much prepeartion you to do to put your finger on the scales in your favour.

If you upgrade all your gear, get the best food, know all the enemy moves, lets face it the boss fights are pretty easy. But they dont feel 'cheap' because you earned how easy you made the fight.

[tulip pecan]

I used the different biome enemies as an example but the point I'm making is unless you play it safe by matching gear to biome you have no way of gauging if an encounter with an unfamiliar enemy will be deadly for you or not.
You have to fight them to find out, and you either win or you die. If you die, it feels cheap because you had no way of judging the enemy's strength.

The atgeir balance and my reply to the suggestion are two different topics

[errant mauve]

OK I agree with you that this is an issue, in so much as that I think it discourages you discovering a new biome for yourself since the penalty for death is so annoying.

I dont think its something that has an easy fix, if any fix at all.

Some game design problems are impossible. Its like how Balatro discourages you from calculating the score you will get from a hand to encourage taking risks and playing in a more intuition forward way... but every score can be calculated if you are willing to.

Maybe killing a boss for the first time could drop 3 potions that give an instant revive, in the place you died with all your stuff.
The idea being you use them to discover the next biome.

It could make getting a beachead in ashlands less crushing too lol, which is a common issue people have.

By 'disover' I mean get a basic grasp of what it is like, the topology, the basic mob move sets, and indeed how much damage they do and you can take

[tulip pecan]

It is a difficult problem to solve because it's an oversight baked into the game at a fundamental level. However, as we have figured out, there are ways to address it.
I like the "failed blocks eat stamina first" suggestion because it improves the threshold of survivability while not guaranteeing a win. Long story short, it gives you the ability to FAFO, take a hit, lose all your stamina and a lot of HP, think "yeah I'm not winning this" and then run away. Combining that with the Bonemass power further increases the survivability threshold. You'll still get mulched outright if you try pushing way above your league, but it helps significantly.

[leaden kindle]

The fulings hit about as hard as draugr, respective to your level, but the beserkers and lox are the real damagers

[tulip pecan]

Berserkers are scary man

They're 2/3 the size of a troll but hit 9x as hard (at least that's what it feels like)

[errant mauve]

Theyre kind of easy to outflank

You just have to run for the hills when they charge up their big attack

[tulip pecan]

I gave up trying to out-agile enemies when I learned you couldn't jump over the stone golem's ground sweep attack (but you can roll through it). Biggest disappointment in my life.

[stark furnace]

Jumping attacks still has it's place though

Just not against everything 🤙

[tulip pecan]

I don't trust it if the hitboxes are lies

In tried and true timing-based parry we trust

[lofty wave]

The hitbox is 2.87m tall, if you're higher on a slope you might be able to jump that

[rose swan]

I don’t often utilize jumping like I maybe should? But I feel pretty confident with combat generally speaking. My favorite tool is probably just walking backwards

[tulip pecan]

On flat ground visually it really does look like you should be able to jump the attack
The golem is practically asking you to play a game of jumprock

There's also a troll log swing attack where it looks like if you position yourself just right the log will completely miss you and leave you ready in a position to take a chunk out of the troll. Doesn't work :(

[lofty wave]

The vertical or horizontal attack?

[tulip pecan]

I think the horizontal one

My gaming PC is broken so I haven't been able to play any games (including Valheim) for a while to check

[wanton atlas]

?

[tulip pecan]

@remote dawn Quick question did you read this
https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Blocking#Maximum_blocked_damage
before making your suggestion? #suggestions message

[remote dawn]

Didn't read this specifically but i know how it works

[arctic wharf]

I remember the days when the spawn stones were still half empty and we all speculated what might cone in the future

[tulip pecan]

I just found out apparently that the stones are only cramped if it's a world created pre-Ashlands, otherwise the spacing is better?

[wanton atlas]

yes

[tulip pecan]

well, i deleted the suggestion then. that's a first
No need to uncramp them if the cramping is just a symptom of early access that will just resolve itself over time

[wanton atlas]

just make a new world and see how they stack up

[tulip pecan]

#suggestion-discussion message 🥺

[wanton atlas]

ah

broke how?

[tulip pecan]

Well...

1. Bad RAM that needs replaced
2. Graphics card is over a decade old (still works surprisingly well, but it is the main bottleneck performance-wise)
3. Still have Windows 7 and I hate every modern version of Windows so I'm procrastinating on installing Linux

[wanton atlas]

ouch 🙁

[wanton atlas]

@main oar Any PTB related talks, feedback etc goes into the correct channel

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[wheat dove]

Why are people against adding an apple tree to the meadows? I keep seeing it added it suggestions, I was curious.

[lofty wave]

Meadows doesn't need more food

[rose swan]

I’m actually really for apple trees (or any fruit tree really) but I’m opposed to the other parts of the suggestion.

[leaden kindle]

well what would apples do, they're sort of pointless since every biome already has their health, mixed, and stam (plus eitr) fooddsd

[rose swan]

I wouldn’t be opposed to having some food options that balance Eitr and health/stam, but I admit that might be a bit overboard 🤔
Someone who knows stats and balancing better than me might have a better idea as far as stats go.

Maybe they could be an important component for meads or something.

I just really like the idea of expanding the ‘farmables’ in Valheim, it’s my favorite part of the game. I just think some sort of fruit tree would be a nice way to contribute to that. Super happy we got grapes! If they weren’t bugged that is

[leaden kindle]

they should add apples to make cider and all it does is give you a drunk debuff

[rose swan]

Would a stronger version of tasty mead be really OP? 🤔

[leaden kindle]

honestly I never thought about tasty mead being normal alcoholic mead

[lofty wave]

+1000% stamina regen, but you get bukeperries debuff

[remote dawn]

#suggestions message is so overhated

it actually makes sense this way

[languid ibex]

Differentiating damage types between a physical hit done by player or tree seems unnecessary, and even in these cases the root system wouldn't be torn up.

Also might create an unintentional shortcut behind chopping trees, where players use the axe far less because there's a way around leaving a stump behind.

[wheat dove]

I was thinking perhaps the apples themselves just give a balanced stam and health increase, say 12 each or something. But then they could be used in recipes from the plains or mistlands onwards. That or move the tree to a different biome.
The mead is a good idea.

[rose swan]

Yeah, it makes sense for sure, but I don’t know it just doesn’t seem like it would add much 🤔

[leaden kindle]

I think a plant that grows in multiple biomes but each biome provides a new version of the fruit is a good idea

[languid ibex]

Berry bushes are doing that already tbf

[leaden kindle]

are they? you can't plant berry bushes

[languid ibex]

Just not across the board

You can farm them though, just surround big patches in fencing and create a portal chain.

[remote dawn]

the root system gets ripped out when a tree falls over, it doesn't stay in the ground, and i don't see why making something easier is somehow bad?

[leaden kindle]

eh i more meant a tree you plant that all shares the same seed, it would promote bases in multiple biomes

[languid ibex]

You utilize axes less, bad for experience gain and utilizing created tools. The root system is rarely ripped out by trees collapsing into one another, that is typically done by strong winds over time.

The ground needs to be softened for that to occur.

[remote dawn]

the experience is a downside i admit

[languid ibex]

But utilizing tools made by the developers isn't?

[remote dawn]

that isn't the point, realism is the point

[languid ibex]

It isn't realistic either, it'd make trees feel like poles in the ground rather than something growing.

Really envision how that would play out and how trees have a model change when chopped.

[leaden kindle]

trees get ripped out the ground all the time, them falling onto each other chopping them off perfectly from the stump is like very unrealstic

[languid ibex]

I agree, but only because typically they catch one another and stop the fall. More commonly start growing into eachother.

[remote dawn]

all that would change is the stump still being attached

[languid ibex]

Yeah that would also look ridiculous.

[remote dawn]

no, no

[languid ibex]

The stump isn't a flat base that would just pop out of the ground either.

[remote dawn]

i don't know how it looks like from the bottom in valheim

i imagine that would need to be change if its flat on the bottom

[languid ibex]

It is, but it's about what's insinuated by the stump remaining after the force of a hit from a tree.

If the stump just topples over with the entire tree, it gives the sense that these trees are just sitting atop the land, and not rooted at all.

[remote dawn]

roots are strong yea, but its the ground that gives out

[languid ibex]

I could get behind a damage differentiation if the stump has a 'torn" variation at the same height.

[languid ibex]

Exactly, going down that realism rabbit hole is a bit much.

[remote dawn]

i can see that

[sonic musk]

the only reources that are awful are usually crafting recipe items. One big example is Meat Platter in the Mistlands for example. Seekers aggressively chase you down from anywhere in the biome. You are going to get a full chest or multiple full chests of seeker meat easily.

Hares on the other hand always run away from you. They never pursue you and often times chasing them can be very long and tedious and take a ton of time. So naturally you have significantly less Hare meat, unless you go way out of your way to hunt them, or you responsibly hunt them every time you can.

This naturally creates a situation where you have 300 seeker meat and 25 hare meat at 1 time when you want to craft Meat Platters. If Hares dropped 2-3x the amount of meat, then you would have 50-75 hare meat at a time just hanging around on average, because hares are rarer than Seekers in the availability of their meat (one runs TOWARDS you one runs AWAY from you)

This is my only gripe with resources in the game, when one resource massively outgenerates another even though both should be equally abundant. Important resources that are rarer should have naturally higher drop rates

[granite geyser]

what about the people who use those stumps for builds?

[remote dawn]

didn't think of that

actually id like to see how it looks

i don't mind getting some inspiration

[languid ibex]

@sage rover this already exists, looking into surtling coal farms 👍

Not to mention the natural resulting coal in the ashlands

[sage rover]

I do that whenever i find one but it's not guarantied to find one

[sick breach]

It is, you just have to keep looking.

[rose swan]

#building-screenshots message

Huh, so this was before feasts
Looks a little different now

[remote dawn]

that looks cozy

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message both raids are mutually exclusive. The blob raid is only enabled after defeating bonemass, which is also when the draugr raid is disabled. So the confusion comes after defeating bonemass when you see a completely different raid than the one you expect, rather than prior to bonemass. That aside I agree the titles for them should not be the exact same thing regardless.

[inland hound]

i'm sure this gets asked ALOT but why doesn't valheim have anyway to go underground? I sort of understand the argument of its already established for a 2D height map, but why is there no way to have players freely choose to go underground if they wish? Why hasn't there been any mods to do this either?

[rose swan]

I’m not an expert on the subject, but it pretty much all boils down to the limitations of the engine and how terrain works. Probably hasn’t been any mods that have achieved this, because it’s extremely difficult and resource intensive to do so.

Water physics are in a similar situation as far as I know.

[inland hound]

i'd love to investigate exactly what limitations prevent it from being possible so I can try to mod it in because i've heard thats the case too. I mainly just wanted to know if anyone had a more concrete answer aside from the engine limitations.

[rose swan]

You could try asking in https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202934289898151966 to see if other mod authors have attempted this before? 🤔

[languid ibex]

In theory there could be prefab underground areas, it'd just be limited to the terrain depths available. All it would take is some destructable rocky coverage placed above the pseudo cave/tunnels.

This is already possible for players to do in some ways as well, like the big rocks/copper ore deposits. Not to mention some forsaken boss altars, Elder being the best.

[brisk matrix]

what is your definition of "underground" there are two mods that implement something that might be what you mean

they let you place an entrace to another area that is "underground"

[inland hound]

I mean full 3D terrain height, no psuedo underground like the troll caves and skeleton tombs.

[brisk matrix]

there arent many games that do full voxel terrain well and dont suffer extreme preformance problems

the 2d heightmap is computationally simple in comparison to 3d terrain manipulation

[inland hound]

yes, I fully understand that. Games like enshrouded also suffer from these problems, but mask it by only save/loading player edited areas and limit the player to certain areas. Fully 3D voxel terrain is not really possible and playable so I can sympathise with that perspective

[lament zinc]

The engine limit is that it's not using the "Voxel" principle, like Minecraft and Enshrouded do.
Combine that with a fixed water level and things will require a complete overhaul to even make digging tunnels underground possible.

[brisk matrix]

I think minecraft gets a huge pass since the voxels are so big and it doesnt have to compute any transition shapes between them

[stiff stag]

There's also still the matter of it completely nullifying the threat of raids (terrain walls or moats blocking off grounded enemies is bad enough, but building underground would block off flying enemies from reaching you as well).

[inland hound]

I only really understand the whole argument that it would require a big rewrite. Superficial problems like fixed water level can be resolved easily by limiting where the player can dig and what they can dig. I'm more so suprised that it seems no modders have attempted, and no true answer has come from the devs themselves

[brisk matrix]

changing the terrain system is likely too big of a task for any modders to want to take on. the big argument against it that performance will likely suck

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message valheim is not the right type of game for content like that as it clashes with the lore and it wasn't designed to support stuff like that to begin with.

[inland hound]

i truely think that if the devs integrated modding, or provided some sort of toolkit for the game, modding would have gone as far as having a modified terrain system. I really do hope the devs consider implementing 3D terrain someday because I love building in valheim over enshrouded but the terrain is so limiting in valheim and the modding capability is so shallow relative to the work required.

[granite geyser]

it's impossible to do. Either by devs or modders

there is no way of changing that

if the ones making the games literally cannot do any of that then it's already impossible x2 for modders to even dream about doing it themselves

[inland hound]

My question is why? Is it an engine limitation? is it a skill limitation? Games using unity have done it in the past so what truely stops valheim having it. Besides, the argument of devs not being able to do it doesn't mean its completely impossible for modders to do it. My question isn't to antagonise or critisize the devs or player, I just want to know why.

[granite geyser]

game limitation

completely impossible for modders to do it

in this case, it is

[inland hound]

game limitation how?

[granite geyser]

that they didn't make the game from the ground up to allow any of that

and it is the kind of things that need to be planned from the very beginning. For both cases

[inland hound]

I think i'm going to try have a stab at it and see how far I get with it

[tulip pecan]

Instead of going full voxel terrain I've often wondered about the feasibility of just having say, 3 or 4 different of Valheim's existing heightmap layers stacked on top of eachother. So you could have "underground" or overhanging terrain.
Each deeper layer requires a higher tier pickaxe to modify, so hiding from raids underground isn't available the moment you get the antler pickaxe.
Layer 1 (surface) - antler & bronze
Layer 2 (basement, caves) - iron pickaxe
Layer 3 - black metal pickaxe
Hypothetical Layer 4 - hypothetical final pickaxe

[rose swan]

NG+ is better suited for games such as Dark Souls and Eldenring, since you don’t really leave anything behind in the next playthrough. A NG+ in a survival game would be strange, to say the least. Is your NG+ world newly generated? Sucks for all your builds 😅

[tulip pecan]

As far as hiding underground to avoid raids, it's been one of my strongest opinions for a long time that the entire raid system needs to reevaluated from the ground up. I like the concept a lot, but the implementation like certain other parts of Valheim's design suffers from being too minimalist.

For example, moats and earthwalls have been historically one of the most effective ways of passively defending a location. Of course it's also going to be one of the most effective defense strategies in Valheim (considering that the raiding parties always know where you are and will always eventually show up). However, this is a fantasy game, and while moats and earthworks might be conventionally effective there's no reason why they have to stay effective.

[lament zinc]

Yeah, that's why armies had Sappers........

[granite geyser]

so essentially having multiple worlds each on top of of each other...

i'm sure performance would love that one simple trick

and it'd be especially great considering all water is all over the map

[tulip pecan]

Valheim's current heightmap way of handling terrain is computationally trivial. The performance tax would effectively increase from 0.01% to 0.05%

[wanton atlas]

?

Turning valheim into a mining game complete are we discussing this fine evening? 😄

[tulip pecan]

The children will always yearn for the mines 😛

[random monolith]

You know, I kind of like the idea

How’d you make sure each layer blends together properly though

[tulip pecan]

Well, at least theoretically it should be. Games using the same or similar heightmap-mesh method to store and render terrain have been a known technology for at least 30 years, and there's been plenty of progress in optimization and computing power in that time. I would be unpleasantly surprised if how terrain is handled in Valheim really does cost a significant portion of performance.

[random monolith]

Nvm that probably wouldn’t be the hardest part

[wanton atlas]

we actually had a extremly big issue with the ground at first. where every terraforming hit would add instances since it first render the original heightmap, then the changes to it. which resulted in 1000+++ of instances

[random monolith]

an*

extremely*

[tulip pecan]

That... would definitely be an issue.
Although you could use it to make a timelapsed playback of the terraformed area if you wanted, once you got tired of the game running like molasses 😅

[wanton atlas]

there was actually a mod that did exactly that 😄

[tulip pecan]

amazing

[wanton atlas]

but we found a sollution to it

hence a command still exists in the game do "fix it" but that command basicly runs every time you terraform so it re-saves the heightmap

[tulip pecan]

The entire heightmap or just a local portion?

[wanton atlas]

local

since you don't terraform the entire world at the same time

but every hit with pickaxe in the ground, or ground you raise with the hoe. saves the changes

or did you mean multiplayer vs "only for the player terraforming" ?

[tulip pecan]

No you interpreted it right. But now that you mention it, did you have any issues with terraforming not syncing between clients?

[wanton atlas]

nope. no issue

it just kept adding instances tho 😄

[tulip pecan]

Was the instance problem fixed about 3-4 years ago? There are few messages (here's one #screenshots message) mentioning a fix to the terraforming performance hit around that time.

[wanton atlas]

um. like 2021 fix 🤔

[tulip pecan]

math checks out then 😄

[wanton atlas]

command was made Mars 2021 😄

[tulip pecan]

What do you mean by blending together? What are you envisioning?

[wanton atlas]

kind of sucks that people still belive terraforming makes much diffrence in performance nowdays

it was like. early 2021 issue

[tulip pecan]

Yeah I imagine now you get more of a tax out of dropped objects, base pieces, and creature AI

[wanton atlas]

oh god yes

dropped items not despawning due to players spawn proof huge areas is alot worse issue 😄

the terrain changes adds like 0.0001%

the amount of terraforming you need to do to have a meaningful inpact on the FPS is... huge

[tulip pecan]

hmmm. would you like to have a free 13-year-old idea of mine that could possibly help with that? It was originally for Minecraft, but the principle could be easily modified for Valheim

[wanton atlas]

um. honestly

no

--> #suggestions

I don't design nor do I program valheim

so I'm am not the person to speak to

[tulip pecan]

lol

[wanton atlas]

in valheim, items are removed every 3 ingame days unless they are near a object which is suppose to prevent items from being removed

so objects lying around in the forrest will be automaticly removed

[tulip pecan]

Yeah, I knew that. The stated performance problem was specifically with objects in bases

I'll turn it into a suggestion then as normal. I just assumed you were the only one of the developers that reads them (there are a lot and it takes time), so you were the one responsible for pitching the ones worth considering up the ladder

...dang now i have to format it somewhat presentationally instead of conveying it conversationally 😞

[wanton atlas]

every developer can read in the suggestion channel 🫡

[wanton atlas]

O!ptb

@molten bloom keep PTB suggestions and ideas in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only channel please

O!ptb

[molten bloom]

the suggestion wasn't about the PTB, I just used the new update as a preface for my suggestion

[languid ibex]

That's still discussing the PTB outside of the proper channels, that's all

[molten bloom]

That doesn't really make any sense. If I made a suggestion for the deep north but mentioned an aspect from the update that is currently in the PTB as a reference would it be a PTB suggestion? Would it make more sense then to put that deep north suggestion in the PTB channel?

obviously not

[pale oasis]

It's a simple rule. Don't discuss or mention PTB stuff outside those channels. It's spoilers and a lot of players don't want it spoiled.

[molten bloom]

Then it would just be a matter of marking it as a spoiler which I could've easily done without the entire suggestion I wrote out being deleted. It has nothing to do with it being a "PTB suggestion"... because it wasn't

Not a big deal though, I'm just saying it wasn't a PTB suggestion

[pale oasis]

Feel free to make the suggestion without referencing PTB content.

[molten bloom]

thank you for your permission, tom

[pale oasis]

Chill.

[granite geyser]

yes, because you are mentioning content currently in the PTB

[granite geyser]

it mentions PTB content. Period

[molten bloom]

I'm not trying to have an argument here - just pointing out how silly it is to say that anything that mentions the PTB is a "PTB suggestion"

that would be like me mentioning a mechanic in V-rising, and explaining its implementation in Valheim, and having it be removed for being a "V-rising suggestion". I get it if the spoiler is the main issue, but I could've just tagged it. Instead it was removed for supposedly being a "PTB suggestion" which it objectively was not. It isn't a big deal though, I won't mention anything from the PTB moving forwards

[rose swan]

I didn’t see the suggestion, but maybe you could reword it to eliminate anything that could be interpreted as being related to the PTB? Or perhaps it could be posted in the PTB feedback channel? 🤔

[tulip pecan]

Well yes, but there is a distinction between "can read" and "is reading". I understand that development can be a rather intensive process, and when the focus is on crunching out the next major update it's likely that taking the time to go through the player suggestion box full of a myriad of random ideas is probably not too high on the priority list. When it comes to that, your presence in this channel responding to things is really the only feedback us server members get that the suggestions we put in are being acknowledged...

[languid ibex]

Pretty sure tagging is isn't allowed either though, if you want to repost the chat logs are accessible to mods and wouldn't be hard to recover via DM.

[wanton atlas]

I can fetch the text Yes

But the suggestion container spoilers, and that's why it needed to be removed for now.

[lament zinc]

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[lament zinc]

@patent flare about your suggestion.

[twin holly]

out of curiosity what is every ones issue with being able to plant more? i play on xbox so we do not have access to the mods that many pc player have so being able to plant other items ie the trees from the mist land or ashlands is not something we can do but would be very handy but seems people do not like the idea

[leaden kindle]

I think berry bushes are the disagreement, I personally have no issue with plantable ash and yggdrasll

[languid ibex]

There's a stated intent behind some things like berry bushes to encourage foraging/exploration. The tree side of things isn't such a bad take, but personally I enjoy the foraging logic, and always mark a large patch of bushes to build into my portal chain to farm.

[leaden kindle]

I also enjoy foraging, forces you to adventure more and keeps you out of the safety of your base

Other trees are replantable, a finite amount of ash and ygg was actually something I found quite annoying

[rose swan]

The foraging aspect is an important component. To retain the relevance of foraging, I think the acquisition of things like berry bushes (for example) need to be somewhat difficult/expensive. could range from being an expensive sapling from a trader after a specific milestone, being rare loot in a dungeon, or gates behind a certain tool/material.

its usually talked about pretty extensively- though it’s actually been awhile since it’s come up!

[twin holly]

i do understand the foraging aspect which i myself also enjoy and would even with this ability still go out and do but it would also be nice to have the option to add these for especially for those that enjoy a farm build where they can produce these items if that make sense i do not by any means want to take from the aspect of the game just thought it be a nice addition id also love to see plant able flowers for decoration around my builds i currently run around with my serving tray planting mushrooms and the new fragrant flower bunch 🤣

[rose swan]

I totally understand! You’ll find no bigger advocate for flora than myself haha #suggestions message ||y’all knew it was coming lol||

It’s about finding that balance that retains foraging for a relevant portion of the game, and also expanding the palette that builders have to choose from. Getting to place mushrooms via the serving tray was a massive boon, a huge step in the right direction for exterior design!

[leaden kindle]

Maybe we need plant pots or smth similar

[rose swan]

Maybe? Maybe add functionality to the vases we get in the Ashlands to use as decorative pots or something 🤔

Even still, the difference between a build that flexes a wide selection of landscaping such as the small variations of the trees we have in-game, is night and day. Really makes builds pop astronomically.

[lament zinc]

The fact that it makes exploration useless.
You simply get one item of everything, plant it, have resources set to maximum in the modifier, harvest it and it's instantly enough to last quite a time.
Do that 4-5 times and you got enough resources to last through endgame, thus removing the need to go out to forage for items again.

[errant mauve]

Also, it makes you have to work for the nicest resources in the game, this is more applicable to stuff like the yggasdrill wood, but its meant to be a challenge to get those items rather than them being mass farmable from a comfy base.

[twin holly]

see that where i think your wrong it not the only reason for exploring at all you still have to go out hunting and to the caves and crypts and there is also the seal towers and of course just opening the map there are plenty of reasons to still go out i only asked for bushes and the replanting of trees that we dont currently have could still have its limitations like the areas there planted in

[leaden kindle]

It's not particularly difficult to get imo, the easiest of all mistlands resources

Hares are harder to get than yggdrasll

[twin holly]

also am not here to argue or get anyones panties in twist was just a suggestion and i was intrested in why people did not like the idea 😇

[twin holly]

what nightmare hares can be lmao

[errant mauve]

Hares are easy you just AOE.

Thats not the point though lol, I wasnt talking about how one mistland resource is harder to get than another, I was talking about how having to leave your base and fight stuff is more than farming it at home.

[lament zinc]

OK, let's face this:

You're playing the PTB right now and plant the berries, thistle and mushrooms you've found in the Meadows and Black Forest. You've mined 4 copper veins at the maximum settings, got 3 chests full of tin and your own private forest nearby for wood.
Then you want to craft a potion and instead of going out to the black forest because you ran out of thistle, you just go to your garden and pick some thistle.

Meaning, you got all the resources at home, but how are you supposed to encounter all the new things the PTB will offer if you don't go out?

Because for me that's the interesting part.

I leave my base because I need thistle and run in all kind of things I wasn't expecting to run into, resulting in having a full inventory with items I didn't expect to get, but certainly would need.

[errant mauve]

Make iron ingots tameable and breedable.

[rose swan]

“Iron loves you”

[twin holly]

see now i understand why people dont discuss there suggestion your suggesting that just because you plant bushes means you wouldnt leave your base and am sure there are people out there that are doing this already and they seem happy enough playing the game they want to iv played valheim from the beginning like many here so i dont see why my suggestion should be made out to be so awful when pc players have mods doing just this as well as so really dumb things if you dont like the suggestion thats completely fine but dont try making someone feel there suggestion is dumb ( @errant mauve very funny) my suggestion was simply plant able bushes and the trees we currently can not there are many servers out there that a fully rp based and many have farmers that do just grow and stay within there basic so surely if the option was there if would be down to people playing and how they wish to use the ability oh and fyi i love going out to the world i have bases all over mine going out and exploring even with the ability to plant what we have IS still a massive part of why i play that doesnt have to change but you have no right to tell so one how to play there game there way

[errant mauve]

💡 In the deep north, at the very very furthest possible north point of the whole map there should be an extra tall mountain, then at the summit there is a runestone with the text: We've been trying to reach you about your cars extended warranty.

I wasnt trying to make it sound dumb... its been stated why its a thing in the game, there are mods if you still want to workaround that regardless.

[lament zinc]

Just a suggestion: if you remove the spaces your wall of text is even harder to decipher.

Ever heard of punctuation, capitals and using soft enter one in a while?

Not everyone here is a native English speaking person and a wall of text where one sentence moves into another one without the use of punctuation and the use of capitals is very hard to read.

[languid ibex]

I think there's just an explanation behind the developer's reasoning being stated, no one really meant to be insulting. It's easy to say 'well if it were just this one thing it wouldn't ruin the fact that you need to leave your base.' That logic could surely be applied, but it would likely just be starting the trickle that eventually breaks the dam where foraging exclusivity is concerned.

[patent flare]

What

[peak bronze]

"You never have enough of me."

[twin holly]

Oh I apologise I was using the ability to speak into my phone as I was driving so I've actually gone out of my way just for you to rewrite what I have written including punctuation. It really hope this makes it easier for you sweetheart I do apologise I was unaware that I was in a literacy lesson. I can see now though you're clearly a professional keyboard warrior and I am completely out of my league.

See now I understand why people don't discuss their suggestions. You're suggesting that just because you plant bushes, it means you wouldn't leave your base. And I'm sure there are people out there who are doing this already, and they seem happy enough playing the game. I have played Valheim from the beginning, like many here, so I don't see why my suggestion should be made out to be so awful when PC players have mods doing just this, as well as some really dumb things.

If you don't like the suggestion, that's completely fine, but don't try making someone feel their suggestion is dumb.

My suggestion was simply plantable bushes and the trees we currently cannot. There are many servers out there that are fully RP-based, and many have farmers who do just grow and stay within their bases. So surely, if the option was there, it would be up to the players and how they wish to use the ability.

Oh, and FYI, I love going out into the world. I have bases all over mine — going out and exploring, even with the ability to plant what we have, is still a massive part of why I play. That doesn't have to change, but you have no right to tell someone how to play their game their way.

I do hope you enjoy your Friday I know I intend to enjoy mine most likely playing Valheim and exploring the rest of the world that I still have to explore and you know what I might even plant some more trees along the way.

[lament zinc]

NVM, misread.

Apologies.

[lament zinc]

Apologies accepted.

At least now it made more sense to me.

I mentioned the exploration part in my first reply, the other reason why I don't like something like this is that it would make the game too easy.
I've seen what it does to a game when you use the plant everything mod combined with 3x resources and the "no build cost" modifier.

That particular player picked up both kinds of berries and mushrooms, until the player was able to set up a base. Then, when the cultivator was unlocked, the player simply selected what was needed, used the mouse button to adjust the size of the field and planted 50 mushrooms in one go.
Just to adjust the size of the field again and immediately harvest 150 mushroom with one click.

Berries were planted in 3 rows of 20 bushes. One click later and the player had 150 raspberries.

That's exactly why I don't like the idea; because it's things like that (the so called QoL stuff [for me it means "quantity of laziness']) that makes the game too easy.

Because if you go exploring, it could take you 2-3 hours to end up with 150 blueberries, raspberries, yellow mushroom or thistle, while you also end up with enough gold coins to buy two Meginjords, craft yourself a full tier 4 troll hide set and still have enough hides and trophies left to fill a chest with several stacks of them.

[lofty field]

If you set the resource rate to 3x, you don't have to plant or actively forage for anything, you get enough by simply picking up stuff along the way.

Arguing against more planting options by assuming everyone is going to couple it with a resource modifier is not in good faith.

[peak bronze]

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[peak bronze]

^ @dry phoenix put your suggestion to appropriate channel.

[dry phoenix]

Sorry about that, my mistake.

[lament zinc]

Who said that everyone will do that?

I simply stated that I saw it happening and what it did.

It's a statement based upon the behaviour of one player, not the majority.
But it's certainly something that should be taken into mind.

Or do you rather prefer me using the same old threaded path that is: "The Devs said they won't change it, so it won't happen".
Because that's been mentioned about each and every time the suggestion about having the ability to plant everything being brought up.
And very often by someone who's the spokesman of the studio in this discord.

[lofty field]

I don't get what this example is supposed to underline. That player could simply have also enabled the no craft cost and all recipes known toggles and the whole point is moot

[dry phoenix]

I don't think it should be as easy as planting a single berry (maybe something purchased from a merchant or crafted with later game materials) but, at a later progression in the game, I don't see much of a difference between hopping through a portal set up in a berry hotspot and hopping through a portal to my farm.

[lament zinc]

Well then, read things again, because I very clearly states what it does.

The mod, combined with the No build cost modifier and the 3x resource modifier makes the game too easy.

Get one berry, use the mod to plant it, use the no build cost modifier to plant an ifinate amount of it and use the resource modifier to harvest triple the amount you usually get ====> PROFIT!

[lofty field]

Yeah, but that does not matter, it should be balanced around default modifiers (if it was added at all)

[lament zinc]

And how should that be done?

[lofty field]

That's a different point, I don't know. I'm simply saying that the modifiers should not matter

[dry phoenix]

Would be cool if you needed a sort of starter pot to produce young bushes. You could gate it behind tar or something similar. At that point in the game, it seems fair to be able to have blueberries and raspberries on your farm. Or you could have to purchase the young bushes as a way to moderate the amount you have access to.

But I agree that worrying about manipulated settings breaking game balance is kind of silly to worry about. That player is going out of their way to break the game balance anyways. I think that keeping all items in your inventory on death is broken so I just don't have those settings on.

[lofty field]

There is this and other options mentioned above. I'm not sure I'm in favor though as it will probably just move the complaints from "why can't we plant x" to "why can't we plant x when we need it"

[dry phoenix]

I'd say it's worthwhile simply for Ratatosk (as well as landscaping).

[lofty field]

True, but that's also a strong point against it imo. You can use that potion 15 times or so during bonemass, if it becomes basically free it would be way too op

[dry phoenix]

Fair point. I still think it's worth considering because, at that point in the game, it's easy to have enough berry hotspots scoped out that it's just another portal -> collect resource -> repeat. If I'm doing that, I'd rather do it at my farm(s).

[stiff stag]

Later game options are often a great way to handle these types of issues. The scythe for instance is great for harvesting crops more easily, but it's not available until after beating moder, so harvesting isn't made too easy prior to that (and by that point harvesting has gotten tedious so it's a good reward, and barley and flax could already be harvested with weapons anyway so it's not an issue there).

[pale oasis]

I think that's kind of an issue, really. Like how the mining buff on the queen is way too late in the game for something so useful. The scythe is after moder, but it's not really needed for farming (but grants farming skill, weapons don't) by that point. Even Ashlands doesn't have a new normal crop to grow, just vines. The scythe, to be as useful as it seems intended, really should be earlier. Right now, it's neat, it helps a little, but you get it too late.

[rose swan]

Agreed. It’s about finding that balance (strictly in the context of berries and similar foragables) to where the player still has to maintain that aspect while it’s relevant, and also giving more creative elements to reward progression.

As far as non-foragables flora like the small bushes and small trees, I think we can pretty much all find common ground that having those as a building option would be greatly beneficial 🤔

[pale oasis]

Yeah, I'd love bushes/shrub options for planting, just for aesthetics.

But planting foragables is too much.

[rose swan]

If you’ve ever watched build videos and see how players utilize trees and bushes, you’ll know just how much it can change your build and really take it to the next level. Scales actually has some really nice videos showcasing some of the possibilities.

Would planting foragables still be problematic in your opinion if they were only cosmetic and couldn’t be farmed? 🤔

[pale oasis]

I think that would be fine even if makes no sense 😆

But I'm all for increased cosmetic options.

[stiff stag]

Could be artificial bushes so it isn't so weird that they can't be picked (kind of like how the seasonal yule tree is pretty much an artificial Christmas styled tree).

[rose swan]

Would y’all be opposed to (just spitting out an example) buying raspberry bushes from the Bog Witch for 400 gold, after Queen is defeated. Just as an example! Would you find that problematic? 🤔

[leaden kindle]

Could be fun, queen seems a little late though

[pale oasis]

I could see buying fake bushes (or crafting them) as an option.

[stark furnace]

cosmetic bushes from hildir would be cool

you can already buy the green vines from her

oh nvm that's from the witch

Either way a trader of some sort would be cool

[languid ibex]

Dogg posted it earlier, so I'm sure they're trying not to post it again so: #suggestions message

This is the way

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message The entire point of the cooldown is so you can't do that, because the developers don't want you doing that.

[tulip pecan]

Does the cooldown start when you drink the mead or after the mead effect expires? I don't remember

[idle smelt]

There is no point for cooldown to be honest.
You anyway need wait game days to even craft a mead

[stiff stag]

The cooldown lasts as long as the effect does, which was done that way on purpose.

[idle smelt]

300 hours in game and dont know about cd )))

[stiff stag]

That isn't even a valid argument. You get multiple potions per mead for one, and for another the cooldown is again so you can't just spam them whenever you want (makes it so you have to pay attention to when your effects run out).

[peak bronze]

Someone just want to drink all the mead to get drunk.

[tulip pecan]

Okay but why does that matter? Why is it so important to get those few ticks of exposure to fire poison or frost at the 10 minute mark before you redrink the mead, as opposed to just refreshing the duration a bit earlier?
I'm pretty sure because that's because that's the part that doesn't actually matter, and the cooldown is just there to make sure you can't stack resistance meads of different types and it uses the same code as the healing mead to be efficient.

[idle smelt]

For rock and stone!

[sick breach]

Yeah not being able to drink a healing, stamina, or eitr potion for a duration makes sense game balance wise; imagine being able to spam health pots to live through any damage. But you shouldnt be restricted from drinking resistance potions early because the only practical effect is you reduced how effective the first potion was.

[tulip pecan]

Yeah, we do have limited inventory space after all - even with the capacity to early refresh you're still incentivized to keep track of your potion duration if you want to maximize the benefit you get out of each mead

[stiff stag]

At best I could only see the cooldown being lowered just a tiny bit. Just enough to pop another before the effect runs out, but not enough to where you can just spam them whenever you please.

[languid ibex]

Personally I could see a mead that rids the player of all mead-based buffs that utilizes rotten mean & bukeperries. These items could use some creative uses for other things you ingest. Should you be ready to take on another fight, say you've moved to another dungeon, you may not want to track when the meads run out when entering a new dungeon or wait for the timer to go down to refresh the mead timer.

[tulip pecan]

Or drinking a different buff mead overwrites the effect of one you're currently under, but sure

[languid ibex]

I think that could result in an infinite usage problem personally, which the bukeperries solve with not being able to overwrite foods beyond a certain threshold.

[tulip pecan]

Could you elaborate on that? Infinite usage problem

[languid ibex]

Never running the risk of not having a mead buffing your character, enabling a pseudo passive for the character.

[rose swan]

Remind me, can the player drink ratatoskr before the buff runs out? 🤔

[languid ibex]

I don't believe so

[rose swan]

I’m off early today, let’s check! 😁

[tulip pecan]

I mean, sure. but each different mead is going to take up an inventory slot, and they require constant upkeep to gather the ingredients to craft and make
There are other infinite use problems or similar in the game as well - perpetual forsaken power if you have 4 or more players, carrying around a pocket portal for virtually unlimited inventory (for non-metals)

[languid ibex]

The game doesn't balance around multiplayer, added benefits are just another reason to invite friends and cooperate anyways.

[tulip pecan]

...

[hexed jewel]

you still have to brew up the mead
and like carry it, even if you could pop it such that it was on indefinitely

[languid ibex]

There aren't risks that involve infinite usage with such large benefits.

[hexed jewel]

even as is tho--are there any meads who you can't pop at the LATEST after the effect duration ends?

[languid ibex]

Right, so it could be counterintuitive to communicate to the player that they should spend ages ensuring they never run out of mead.

[languid ibex]

No, but that's part of the nerve inducing side of utilizing meads, and creating engaging combat.

Watching movements, mead timers, utilizing everything you have correctly.

[peak bronze]

Game is quite beatable without meads at all honestly, saving all inventory slots they would require. They're optional.

[languid ibex]

Overwriting mead timers would also create a lot of accidental usage moments for players who might be limited in their playtime/materials.

[hexed jewel]

yeah I'm saying you can ALREADY do the infinite thing more or less because you can just fire it right when the other ends (don't think there's any that last longer than that, except kind the "burst healing" meads which heal and then have a much longer cool down before use--and those specifically i definitely understand the balance rationale)
but I agree it would make it easier to maintain passive with no gap if it were changed--that'd kinda maybe even be the point really, and the question then is just whether that's 'better' overall

[tulip pecan]

By "nerve inducing" you mean "my mead timer is going to expire in 2 minutes, let's wait to re-up it before I venture onward"
because no combat lasts 10 minutes

[toxic trail]

Our battle against Yag did 😆

[cold pine]

really should make bear trophies a little less rare killed 20 of them and still no trophy for the bearzerker set

[languid ibex]

Not at all, I mean 'I'm fighting Yagluth and my mead is at 30 seconds, I cannot take a hit or risk becoming too involved in the fight right now, and focus on when I can reapply my mead.'

[tulip pecan]

Okay, the exception is going to be bosses

[languid ibex]

That goes for any fight anyone might have difficulty with

Minibosses or hard enemies alike

[hexed jewel]

right, it would make it easier/more forgiving to mind that 'window' for sure

[toxic trail]

I can usually find a moment to reup my mead in a long fight though

[tulip pecan]

Do you play MMOs? That sounds an awful lot along the lines of something I would hear in a WoW raid

[languid ibex]

Exactly, that moment finding would be eliminated, and takes away from what you're stating.

[toxic trail]

If they aren't on the quick bar #s then I know where they are in inventory a quick <tab> <right-click> and I'm good

Omni I wasn't stating anything lol - I think you got me mixed up with the other chatter 😉

[languid ibex]

It's just general logic in an RPG really, of which I've played many.

[toxic trail]

I'm ok with the mead timers and cooldowns

[languid ibex]

You stated that you can find a moment to utilize meads, I'm saying that would be eliminated.

Just making another point off of what you'd said.

[rose swan]

Nope! Can’t re-up ratatoskr!

[toxic trail]

Ok I'm mixed up somehow lol - I see no need to eliminate the overwrite block (like you can with food)

[languid ibex]

Huzzah

[languid ibex]

I never said you did, I was piggybacking your point to make mine.

[toxic trail]

Oy vey lol - this went sideways on me 🤣

[languid ibex]

The very fact that you felt the need to state that you can find those moments means it carries some pride in the area of your combat skill.

That's all, and it played into what I was saying.

[toxic trail]

Oh I wasn't going there at all really but I see your point with that, yah. OCD organization helps too; like, I know exactly where my meads are

[rose swan]

Eh, it doesn’t really matter to me- don’t really care if it changes or not. Though it might be a sort-of preventative measure so you don’t drink two meads and effectively only get the use of one.

[languid ibex]

Yeah, I took away my upvote for that reason alone.

[toxic trail]

@rose swan That's like the non-deconstruct with your ship I feel, so you don't accidentally 1-click your boat out from under you in the middle of the ocean

[tulip pecan]

You still have to find a moment to re-up regardless. Like soul healing in Hollow Knight.
Although I do see your point about it being an extra point of engagement in long fights around the 10 minute mark.

[rose swan]

If you’re responsible, you can basically keep the upkeep of any mead buff anyways

[tulip pecan]

perhaps if you can only re-up meads if they're past the halfway point duration, like foods

[languid ibex]

It'd just carry far less engagement if you could reapply the mead when you see it's at a certain threshold.

[rose swan]

Sure! Either way works fine I think 🤔

[tulip pecan]

Man, what if some foods also gave buffs like meads? talk about a missed opportunity

[languid ibex]

Where food is essential to progressing your stats, meads are another formula, and their effects don't wither as time goes on.

[stiff stag]

Make the potency less depending on the duration that was remaining on the last one.

[languid ibex]

I think this is far far less intuitive, because with foods at least you have a visual on the number degradation.

[stiff stag]

Just thinking of options to act as a compromise. Not sure how best to convey such a mechanic and avoid unnecessary confusion.

[tulip pecan]

I mean, assuming you can only ever have one mead drank at a time, you could have a dedicated slot to represent it alongside the stomach slots. Basically graduating it from a status effect to a food-adjacent effect.

[rose swan]

So only one mead effect at a time? So you couldn’t have frost resist and ratatoskr at the same time for example?

[tulip pecan]

can you already have them both in the game normally?

[pale oasis]

Yes.

[tulip pecan]

Nevermind then

[sonic musk]

I only disliked the "reapply meads" suggestion because even though it would be helpful sometimes, the amount of times I would accidentally drink the same potion twice would bother me. Unless, if the suggestion was changed to "when meads have 45 seconds left" then even if you lose some uptime, like you do with foods, you can refresh it while it's still active, like I usually do with foods. Spare some less effective uptime for my foods in exchange for max health/stamina/etc.

Like I've seen a few people say, I don't mind the mead timers personally. But if you limit the redrinking of meads to the last 45 seconds of the buff, then you wouldn't lose that much value accidentally redrinking

[stark furnace]

I feel like it should work as how food works, when half expired, you can reapply

[sonic musk]

Personally with meads, I want the timer to completely run out, and then I don't reapply the mead until I enter combat again, so I usually leave a healthy amount of extra time between drinking meads. Now when I need them of course, I drink them off cooldown, but usually I am very patient with my usage

[sonic musk]

The only reason I don't like that is half expired food is about half effective. 99% expired mead is 100% effective. Would be a huge waste to chug potions when they're half expired, since they have no effectiveness falloff at all

[stark furnace]

You're losing a mead at the cost of being able to apply it earlier

Sometimes it's better to have the peace of mind of not having to worry about it

Say you're in a fight against idk Fader and you really want to always maintain Fireres, and you notice at 5 min and be like ah whatever imma just reapply it rn b4 i forget and potentially die cuz of it

[sonic musk]

I think 45 seconds is a very generous amount of time to reapply a mead. Rested bonus takes 20 full seconds of standing in a rested area. This is more than double that time to reapply mead

[stark furnace]

Maybe 50% is too early idk, just spitballing numbers

Maybe at 70% use or something

[sonic musk]

If it was early, then at least 70% I think should be minimum

[tulip pecan]

I don't see why it is, the only reason the 50% duration exists is to prevent accidental double-chugs when you first apply it

[sonic musk]

Shouldn't encourage wasteful play. Just waste things constantly as a normal game mechanic. The only time I ever eat food again at 50% is when I'm in combat or I'm constantly using stamina to explore/farm/build. Any other time I let it almost completely expire before reapplying. Same for meads, I don't constantly chug meads unless I need them. I have tons and tons of meads, but I also keep a lot extra meads from not wasting them. If you learn proper timer management and plan your usage carefully, you don't need a 50% reapply duration. 70% (72 seconds of a 4 minute mead or 180 seconds on a 10 minute mead) or 45 seconds, but giving players some leeway is understandable. I think 45 seconds is a very generous leeway duration

[sonic musk]

It also makes sense. If you ate 100 lox pies in a row you would throw up or stop living. That's too much to eat at 1 time. The game also limits how much you can eat at once without throwing it up because humans can't eat 100 lox pies in a row, which is what you could do if you didn't have a 50% cooldown debuff for eating food, for example

I gave a ridiculous example because if you didn't have a limit for how much food or meads you could consume, you would run into ridiculous scenarios where you could chug 70 black chests full of mead, for example, which no human could do

[pale oasis]

Valheim does not have that level of simulation. The amount of food you can eat at once is already beyond a normal person; you'd puke eating 3 portions of food like in Valheim. The systems are there to encourage eating variety (no stacking same foods) but on a cooldown to prevent accidental eating and (likely) player psychology of "I should reset my food at the 'optimal' moment to get the best value from the buff"

[sonic musk]

There are humans that could eat how much a character in Valheim eats (without Bukeperries). I've seen youtube videos of someone eating a feast set out for what looks like 10 people all on their own. Obviously in Valheim you can eat it in 3 seconds, because if you spent 45 minutes eating a large meal like most people, then food would be meaningless. It lasts for 25 minutes and takes 30 minutes to eat. Instead you eat them quickly for game balance purposes, but the amount you can eat it theoretically possible for a human to eat, even if it's extreme cases.

[pale oasis]

Still doesn't matter, Valheim is not trying to simulate the amount of food you eat (and a normal person could definitely not scarf down a whole lox pie, a bowl of soup, and a slab of serpent meat in one sitting).

[sonic musk]

You are not a normal person. You're an undead viking, so the 1:1 logic won't apply. But maybe a 1.5:1 logic applies. Lots of the game logic is like that

[pale oasis]

You're not really trying to argue the biology of an undead, are you? 😆

[sonic musk]

I'm trying to say some real life logic applies. You can't jump to the yggdrasil tree and back in 1 jump. You jump higher than most humans, but not much higher.
You can't eat 100 lox pies at once. But you can eat about 4 in a feast, and something else.
You can't throw a stone across the ocean, but you can throw it 10 feet or so.

Some amount of real world logic is in the game that intuitively makes you understand the limits of your characters. But that logic is not 1:1 in every case

[rose swan]

Being able to reapply mead at 50%(or whatever) seems fine to me. Like Scales said, your trade efficiency for peace of mind/flexibility. not too unlike how food works really, minus the diminishing effect.

Yeah, I understand managing your buffs is part of the skill expression. But it seems like a really small aspect of it 🤔

But yeah, it’s a small thing really. I don’t think much about it lol

[stiff stag]

If it were just to prevent accidental eating right after applying, it wouldn't be set to 50% of the duration, since that's well after the point where such an accident would take place.

[eternal wyvern]

Eh, if it starts blinking at 30s remaining, that’s good enough I’d say.

[sonic musk]

Agreed Chiran

[wanton atlas]

@near citrus the short answer on "why not" is we don't have ifinite amount of developers and time to attack such a problem with lack of build pieces

and the UI use to be alot smaller before, so we had to make active choices on what to add all the time

[tulip pecan]

@hushed sinew #suggestions message
#suggestion-discussion message
Same/similar idea to what I had. You were a bit more conservative with the multipliers than mine. The actual numbers would probably be determined through playtesting though.

[lament zinc]

Days without inventory suggestions: 0

[topaz kite]

-# Days without suggestion philosophy: 2

[brisk matrix]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-horse-spank-exhausted-wake-up-gif-17245109

[pale oasis]

To be fair, it had been a few days since it last came up!

[lament zinc]

Yeah, but that's why the counter is back to zero. 🙁

[pale oasis]

But you only count when it gets reset, where are the "Days without inventory suggestions: 1"? 😆

[languid ibex]

Haha, that'd just prompt someone to make one

[tulip pecan]

@ornate vault #suggestions message
Instead of a dedicated table, the activity can be an item you craft like "Woodcarving Block" or "Unmolded Clay" and you can equip it while sitting to make progress on the activity. Once enough progress has been made, the item transforms into one from a random pool of small placeable decorations.

[ornate vault]

I think that sounds perfect. 👌Don’t want the devs working too hard on it. Just a nice little touch of detail and fun little side hobby. 🪵 🧱 🏺🧶🗿🎍

[rose swan]

Huh, speaking of the ‘Days since suggestion ____’ trope, you know what suggestion I haven’t seen in a long time that used to be really popular? 🤔

[versed fog]

Horses?

[tulip pecan]

Ballistae not targeting players?

[ornate vault]

Flat/rounded roofs?

[zenith sand]

bears?

[lament zinc]

That one showed up 2-3 days ago, I think.

[lament zinc]

My guess: something to remove the mist from Mistlands after the Queen is defeated.

[zenith sand]

oh yeah, my bad

[sonic musk]

Bigger boat?

If they made a bigger boat than the Drakkar at this point it would just be a modern Cruiseliner. The boats have gotten so big!

[errant mauve]

We're not going to need a bigger boat

[wanton atlas]

@past furnace you know the game balances all monsters and bosses depending on the amount of players in the area around the monster?
the only thing we have made "upscaled numbers" are the amount of dungeons and most items have infinite respawns so IF you play co-op, there won't be to few items for multiple players.

so a "singleplayer mode" is what you already are playing

[past furnace]

@wanton atlas
Yes I know! I am talking about a “locked” single player mode with increased inventory size, and which would also allow for higher mob density in multiplayer (which was nerfed in ML and AL) while not punishing solo “locked” players too hard.

I feel like a lot of the general whining about inventory size comes from solo players, whereas I feel like adding more inventory space in general would trivialize inventory management especially for groups

[wanton atlas]

Why tho?

the inventory size is planned around a singleplayer experience

should we remove 1 row of 8 pieces for people who play co-op?

[past furnace]

The reason I’m proposing this is because I personally think the inventory size is perfect but I’ve heard the devs are thinking about it increasing it through equipment slots/backpacks which I really don’t think would fit in this game

[wanton atlas]

<-- developer

😛

And I agree with that you said

backpacks would be super-wierd in the game

[past furnace]

That’s good to hear, I started getting scared 😂

[wanton atlas]

in my absolut honest opinion. it's the usual crowd comming back and trying the public test

the same people who struggle, makes the same kind of complaints each time we put something out

it's flattering so many people are pasionated about the game of course

[past furnace]

Yeah I agree the amount of whining on reddit is absolutely insane atm, and I sure hope equipment slots and backpacks will never be added to the game

Another reason I proposed this change is because I prefer pre nerf ML and AL but I’m afraid the community of solo players won’t be able to take it

[wanton atlas]

also agree

the mistlands needs a little bump and ashlands got hard nerfed due to a bug

the bug was fixed, but we didn't re-adjust the monsters

[past furnace]

Niceee looking forward to the buffs

[wanton atlas]

I am not the solo person responsible for those things tho 😄

I mostly do playtesting and finding issues before they happen to you players

[sonic musk]

I was going to make a long rant about why cleaning is bad for the game, but it would not be worth it. Cleaning would be incredibly unfun. End of rant

[wanton atlas]

sounds like a fun mod tho @sonic musk

[errant mauve]

Whilst were at it, lets add other fun things like filing your viking taxes and renewing your longboat license.

You laugh now but the Deep North gameplay will turn out to be having to attend a bunch of appointments that you can only schedule for when youre supposed to be at work.

[past furnace]

Counting on you to make a difference 😁
If equipment slots ever get added I hope it will at least be a toggle in world modifiers or something, don’t force that stuff on me

[wanton atlas]

some people fails their 19 point turning with the boat 🙁

[errant mauve]

The only type of turn available for the Drakkar lol

Except you get 18 turns in and boom you are now louisana seafood boil

[rose swan]

Haven’t seen potatoes suggested in a long time!

[lament zinc]

What's potatoes, precious?

[peak bronze]

Po-ta-toes.

[wanton atlas]

potassium

[lament zinc]

You're going to spoil a puffer fish with potatoes?

[errant mauve]

Potatoes are from the new world so

Not going to fit the theme

[wanton atlas]

new world as in spanish conqured south america? 😄

or the game new world?

[errant mauve]

The americas lol

Tomatoes too, people dont realise this

We had like 2000 years of pizza without tomato

[topaz kite]

Aren’t birch trees from North America? They should be removed since they don’t fit the theme

[errant mauve]

Birch, please

[wanton atlas]

incorrect 🤔

birch is everywhere

or well. northen part of the world

[errant mauve]

I guess it could have been brought over and spread
But google says that some species are native to the USA

[wanton atlas]

if something originated in china 70,000,000 years ago

it's pretty "okay" for it to be in a viking game that is about 69,999,900 years later. "ish"

[topaz kite]

That might be stretching it, I would agree if it was about 69999901 years later

[lost ibex]

dunno, Wikipedia displays a partial list of 53 species native to Eurasia and 17 to North America

[wanton atlas]

and valheim uses a generic one

not any specific veriation 🤔

tho historical accuracy. carrots shouldn't be orange ingame either

should be yellow or so

[languid ibex]

Oh good another realism topic 😅

[wanton atlas]

potatoes and tomatoes

we should add Omnioes ❤️

om nom nom ioes

[languid ibex]

Don't-- please don't eat my children.

[lost ibex]

yeh, it's a good trade between accurate and popularly recognizable, still strongly doubt that birch trees underwent a process of human selection nearly as heavy as carrots did

-# pineapple when?

[wanton atlas]

pine apples aren't apples and don't come from pine 🤔

I love that word

[near citrus]

The Spanish Empire not only conquered South America, which, by the way, doesn't exist (the continent is called America), but also almost 60% of the US territory belonged to the Spanish Empire. The Spanish Empire mapped one-third of the planet Earth and named oceans and seas.

[wanton atlas]

yup yup

spanish, portugese and brits had alot of the world under their feets at one point or another in history

portugal

[near citrus]

That map is wrong, it reflects the current territories of Brazil.

[wanton atlas]

true

it's adapted after the current world map

[near citrus]

But I'm glad that it's recognized that it's thanks to Naples being part of Spain that pizza exists.

[lost ibex]

curious, Spanish language uses widely also the same word used for "pine cone" to indicate pineapple (not Italian, here it's just ananas as everywhere else)

[near citrus]

The Spanish brought the pineapple from America. It's a shame the Italians and English changed the names. The same goes for the tomato; the Italians call it the golden apple.

[lost ibex]

not enough knowledge to confirm that, dunno, but sure the fact that is named pizza is to credit to Arabic languages instead

and anyway our "modern" concept of pizza is all about Italians in the USA in the 1930s

[wanton atlas]

oh?

I thought it was a clear diffrence between real pizza, Turkish pizza and american pizza 🤔

[errant mauve]

Realistically theres a lot of culutural exchange going both was between the USA and Italy with pizza
Neither one can fully take credit

[near citrus]

The thing is that tomato mixed with flour dough is something quite old, any starving person from Extremadura in the middle of the conquest of America ate that with cheese before any person from the USA.

[lost ibex]

yeh, there was "pizza" before, and was totally born in Naples, but was a bit different concept, like different shaped wraps of street-food, depending on local tradition and recipes, modern round pizza served in a restaurants developed mainly in US by immigrants

[errant mauve]

My favourite pizza is donner meat pizza lol
I'm guessing its not just a UK abomination alone but you see it all over here

[wanton atlas]

try to look "past" toppings

more "how" it's made

[errant mauve]

They say that Mexican food is better in the southern states of the US than Mexico. I might get in trouble saying that lol, and I dont know first hand, but apparently its a thing. I guess its a taking the best of both worlds thing.

[wanton atlas]

big crust? super thick etc etc

McDonnalds tastes better in Europe than in the US 😄

[errant mauve]

Beef tallow fries though

[near citrus]

Anything is better in Europe than in the USA, Lima or Acapulco are more European than any city in the USA.

[lost ibex]

uhm, when in the US i wanted to try see if there was any difference, but honestly tasted quite the same to me

[errant mauve]

Yeah but can you buy a shotgun at the same time as your groceries in Birmingham? I dont think so.

[near citrus]

Why would I go to Birmingham if I live in Spain? It's a thousand times better than any other country. My country has culture and history.

[wanton atlas]

italian McDonnalds vs US?

[lost ibex]

yup, i know the "way less ingredients in chips" thing, but for regular burgers Italian and US tasted very much similar (it was like 2008)

had McDonalds in Budapest once and seemed to taste better tho

[wanton atlas]

Hm.. 🤔

maybe italians don't like McDonnalds

[lost ibex]

maybe the problem is Italian McDonalds, not a big deal not a fan of it

[wanton atlas]

I've tested McDonnalds in poland and in portulgal. and both where really descent

better in sweden tho

[lost ibex]

heh, don't have so much base for comparison, had it in Budapest only because it was after a long trip and only thing open, i usually avoid.. cabbage/meat/rice kind-of-lasagna thing was delicious the day after travel

[topaz kite]

Had a McDonald’s in India once, no beef 😔 and their chicken sandwiches were all spicy

[errant mauve]

In some McDonalds in India they dont serve anything with onion, garlic or leek
In some religious traditions those are forbidden because they make you sexually immoral or something

[wanton atlas]

._.

why mix religion and food

[topaz kite]

🐟

[wanton atlas]

no please no fish in my pizza / hamburgers

[topaz kite]

Do people even like anchovies?

[errant mauve]

Its like Kelogg creating his breakfast cereal to stop people [redacted]

[near citrus]

Beer also has religious significance for Vikings; the honeymoon is spent drinking mead in the meadhall.

[lost ibex]

heh, many religions does it, im ok for other time periods that could be seen as a "don't get sick" rulebook, modern times doesn't make the same sense anymore

[wanton atlas]

yes

[lost ibex]

omg yes

[near citrus]

In fact, thanks to religion, Spain has one of the best cuisines in the world, since everything is kosher (Jewish) food, food adapted by Muslims, Christians, Vandals, Phoenicians, Romans, etc.

[lost ibex]

empty the can in a pan, fry some garlic in the anchovies' oil and just add pasta, lightning-fast and very yummy pasta variant

[wanton atlas]

bacon

❤️

[topaz kite]

~Mid~

[wanton atlas]

~sauce~

[granite geyser]

i'm really glad the suggestion discussion channel is being used as its name indicates

[topaz kite]

-# days without suggestions philosophy: 0

Salmon with paprika is goated

[lost ibex]

yeh the off topic prolonged a bit too much, didn't even realize it was sug-dis when replied to first messages

-# also from birch native species to bacon in surprisingly few messages

[near citrus]

As a Spaniard, I would be proud to be able to use rice, tomatoes, garlic, and potatoes in Valheim.

[lost ibex]

ok, that wouldn't make a lot of sense historically, ok it's a fantasy game, but "Viking age inspiration" crumbles a bit too much on tomatoes and potatoes... im is much more likely an old Norseman could "imagine" and "fantasize" about fireball throwing or dead-raising sticks than a tomato

[near citrus]

What country are you from?

[lost ibex]

then yeh, i know, orange carrots, flanged maces more resembling late middle ages than viking age, not fully focused on historical accuracy, still...

[near citrus]

Are you more likely to imagine fantasy things and not a food that can give energy and can be easily replicated in almost any terrain like the potato?

[lost ibex]

Italy, if it was for "cuisine pride" potatoes and tomatoes are of fundamental relevance also here, still i wouldn't like to see those in Valheim (really, why?)

[lost ibex]

probably, yes, im magic and fantasy is a thing, crops that your whole continent won't know the existance of for another 4/5 centuries is another

[near citrus]

Brother, you're Italian, my cousin. We're not from Northern Europe, we're rational. You said something a little odd. People from the North also dream of having potatoes. I know Italian cuisine very well; it's the country I travel to the most in Europe. In fact, I don't think I'll ever travel to Northern Europe again.

[lost ibex]

my point is not wich food is good or bad, or traditional or not (as you well know no tomato = no traditional Italian food)... just that tomatoes and potatoes never saw the face of whole europe (Spain and Italy included) before 500 years after the end of viking age

[near citrus]

Well, it's time to eat garum

[lost ibex]

eheh yep, the idea is not yummy at all, but that was the food back in the day (and probably other disgusting things from a modern day point of view)

[pale oasis]

Life in the north is hard; you eat for practicality, not for the yummies.

[lost ibex]

then totally agree for the love of tomatoes no doubt, also from what i know we would still consider them "disgusting" and use them just for decoration if it wasn't for Spain who first implemented them in cooking

just not Valheimish

[stiff stag]

People seem to forget that valheim isn't midgard, it's an undead realm that isn't bound by the resources a living viking would normally have access to.

[pale oasis]

Hence the made-up plants. But it's still Norse-conceived, so it seems weird for a non-native plant to show up that they wouldn't even know about.

[near citrus]

The praise is mutual; tomatoes grow wonderfully in the soil of the Italian peninsula. Long live Italy, Spain, Portugal, and Greece! Thanks to these countries, the world has reached the moon. Long live China and the Global South.

[lost ibex]

ofc, it's a magic world, still the general tone of historicallish accuracish is there and i like it a lot as a prominent element of Valheim's setting, that along with totally imaginary plants and creatures... existing crops in the"""wrong""" place would ruin a bit the "magic" imo

[eternal wyvern]

#suggestion-discussion message

[topaz kite]

The irish wept

[wanton atlas]

irish aren't Vikings

[brisk matrix]

Yeah we drink way more and as a result are more fearless

[wanton atlas]

drink more sounds scary level 😄

[brisk matrix]

I find it disappointing how little representation Irish/Celtic mythology gets in media vs Nordic

[wanton atlas]

make a irish game 🤔

but isn't like. uum

kingdom come deliverance 2?

[peak bronze]

Wasn't Senua: Hellblade games about Picts?

[teal widget]

i wanted to know what people think of this? is it even realistic due to dev crunch

as much as i would love for this to be a reality i want to hear a grounded opinion lol

[peak bronze]

Some 2 star variants would be bit too much, Lox for example.

[quartz totem]

I think this Starred problem comes to the fact that each star is a double loot ratio (2x). And a "simple" fix would be adding percentage (which already exist in-game) instead of doubling.
E.G: Right now Deer drops 1~2 hides and 2 meat. This 1~2 hides means roughly 1 drop + 50% of getting another one, thus 1~2 hides. But because each star doubles the loot table a 1 ⭐ drops 2~4 hides and 4 meat. And double again, a 2 ⭐ drops 4~8 hides and 8 meat. And if we were to apply that same logic to possible starred lox, it would be, 1⭐ = 8~10 meat and 2 ⭐ 16~20 meat. Yeah, I agree it is too much.
Let's say 1 drop is 100% and 2 drops is 200%, so on.
With adding percentage: a normal drop is 4~5 meat (A total of 450%. Which means 4 are guaranteed + 50% chance of dropping 1 more). A 1 ⭐ lox would add, say, 33%. So one third of 450 is 150. So the loot drop would be 600%, therefore 6 meat in total. And a 2 ⭐ lox would be +67%. Two thirds of 450 is 300. Making a total of 750%. So the loot drop would be 7 meat + 50% chance of getting 8 in total.

If mob spawns 1⭐ and has Hp higher than 800 (rare chunky ones), then drop rate increase by 33%, if mob spawns 2⭐ increase drop by 67%.
If mob spawns 1⭐ and has Hp lower than 800 (more common ones), then drop rate increase by 50%, if mob spawns 2⭐ increase drop by 100%.

[lofty field]

I would like starred night variants and I don't think the drops would be too much since it would probably be easier to kill 4 normal lox than one 2starred lox.

[rose swan]

I wouldn’t be opposed to more starred creatures. Would be interesting if they appeared after certain conditions were met. For example, starred wraiths could start appearing post-Bonemass, starred drakes post-Moder, stuff like.

Lox, as mentioned above, could be like a special case type thing. I hate lox lol but I guess I wouldn’t be opposed to having starred variants? But not only would the 2-star have a huge material drop, it would be extremely powerful. So there would probably have to be some number tweaking.

#suggestions message I’m going to guess you meant to say small minority

[tulip pecan]

Based off of vibes alone, I'd say "small majority" is humorously accurate phrasing

actually no, "large minority" would be even better

[errant mauve]

I've suggested previously that after you beat each boss, the mobs from all previous biomes go up by one star level. So if you beat The Elder, all 0 star Greydwarfs become 1 star. When you beat Bonemass, 1 star Greydawarfs become 2 star. So on and so forth. Obviously, for the earlier biomes there would havve to be higher star levels than 2 introduced. That way, previous biomes provide more of a challenge, but are more efficient to get hold of the items you need.

[languid ibex]

@quartz totem I don't necessarily agree because of the rate you get seeds when planting them in the same spaces, but you did make me realize that it'd be nice to have a locked planting spot that exists after planting. That'd make planting much faster and less careful.

[quartz totem]

I mean, in my first Playthrough I thought I didn't need to replant crops to regain seeds back. and because it was the first time, everything was new and interesting and welcoming. Until I "mass-farmed" onions because it is used later in mistlands recipes (I still craft Salad when i'm building.) And that farming vibe was not as it was at first experience. Which is fine.
But I think that doing a double cycle to get crops is rather annoying. The ratio is fine, but unnecessarily slow. I know the game has a certain (slow) pace but why not the other way around? like, planting 1 seed yields me THREE crops and planting a crop yields a seed back?

[stiff stag]

So you can't just gather a ton of seeds then immediately get 3x as many crops right after the first harvest.

[languid ibex]

I am unsure how you're going about planting, but the current system is already 3:1, so what you suggest is already possible with enough planting space.

Plant 150 seeds, harvest 150 carrots, store 100 carrots, replant 50 carrots for the next 150 seeds.

What you're suggesting is just a lower harvest and planting time, which the scythe already impacts. This is why I mentioned locked planting spaces to further impact planting speed.

[quartz totem]

I know what you are saying. I do that.
What I'm saying is: I start a game from scratch. I go to BF and find, say, 12 carrot seeds. I plant 12 seeds and harvest 36 carrots right away. Then, I plant 12 carrots and harvest 12 seeds. (like a reverse cycle of what we have now).

But in my suggestion I wished that once I acquire my seeds and harvest my crops, I don't need to convert crops into seeds everysingle time.

[languid ibex]

Yeah I hear that, it's just not going to have a massive impact on anything other than starting a planting cycle

If anything it'll net too much immediately and won't encourage good farming habits

[quartz totem]

I'm kind of fine with the current system (I like games that has some sort of farming in it), just wanted a little 'speeding' to accelerate the farming.

Like with my example. I found 12 seeds. I plant 12 C.seeds and harvest 12 carrots. Then with those 12 carrots, say I plant all of them again. I plant 12 carrots and yield 24 carrots and 12 seeds.
in the current system if you forget to plant both seeds and crops you are "Punished to wait" another cycle.

[languid ibex]

That'll happen in both scenarios, at least the current system makes you wonder if you missed something.

The x3 yield could stand to confuse and have players getting their seeds solely from the world.

[rose swan]

I think if we are to see any more changes to farming, it should be in the form of something more tangible 🤔

[uncut linden]

Like using a special seed cart that randomly plants as you go, like irl grass seed spreaders?
Not space efficient, but real fast

[rose swan]

Maybe not that specifically, but yeah something along that concept. Was thinking more like placeable objects that enhance farming in some way, or even some sort of costly fertilizer.

[uncut linden]

I feel like fertilizer may have already been suggested..?
Correct me if I'm wrong

[rose swan]

Oh 100%. Just giving an example 🙂

[uncut linden]

Ah ok :3
I had a bit of a thought earlier today, that you can farm like you do normally, or you could place down a small building type deal, like a garden bench or something, and it'll save the placement of plants around it for easier replanting. The radius is small, and you still have to plant each manually, but it snaps to the "ghosts" of the plants. Decide you don't want to plant there anymore? Deconstruct the lil' building/station

[languid ibex]

#suggestion-discussion message

[uncut linden]

Oh! Sorry I didn't see that
Funny, haha

[languid ibex]

Don't apologize it's funny we thought of the same thing

I like your idea of prefab gardens with snap points for plants as well. That could be fun to have differing styles/sizes based on material types.

[uncut linden]

Yeah :3
I was thinking you plant around it first and it saves where you planted so you can put them exactly back where they were, but prefab planting patterns would be cool too

And the radius of the thing is small, because I'm sure each "ghost" would be an instance, and too many of those are bad for performance

[languid ibex]

It could be nice to have an alternate planting system where placing a seed inside the inventory "plants" the seed. That way vases could be utilized in this way.

Placing a stack of seeds and plucking as you need as well.

[uncut linden]

Maybe. Feels more like a decorative thing though..?

[languid ibex]

Oh for vases I did mean for decoration, but it could also be used for a custom grid/garden where most of the vase is buried in the ground and only used to farm above ground with stacks of seeds.

[uncut linden]

Oh. Reminds me of an olla, only instead of water, it has the whole plant in it!

[rose swan]

Had to look up an olla haha but not a bad idea! I like it

[sick breach]

I feel like the only valheim player who plants a seed crop and harvest crop simultaneously. I always dedicate a fourth of my farming area to seed crops, that way every harvest will yield crops. But everyone else i see plants either seed crops or harvest crops exclusively.

[rose swan]

Depends on what stage of the game im at. Usually do simple ‘plant all’ strategies to give myself a a decent amount of my respective crop.

So I’ll start with like 12 carrot seeds, plant all 12 carrots to get 36, rinse and repeat. Once my seeds outnumber my average plotting space, I’ll start a wave of more seeds+crops to increase seed yield.

I really like the logistics of farming in Valheim.

[autumn idol]

I plant 3 rows of crops and 1 row of seeds so that I never run out. Works well and looks nice.

[rose swan]

Once I get further into the game, I’ll separate crops into their own respective areas, usually having barely take up the largest area. This method allows me to manage crops that are relevant to the point of progression im at.

I think it’s really cool how players can manage their crops their own way and come up with so many unique methods!

[languid ibex]

Oh trust me you're not the only one 😛

[wanton atlas]

@twin holly

O!ptb

[granite kite]

Please keep Public test spoilers in the #valheim-public-test channel and feedback in the #call-to-arms-update-feedback-only.
To gain access to the public test, you go to id:customize and click the Public-test role

[noble crest]

Hi, everyone. I have question/suggestion about wiki. I have noticed that many gaming communities chose wiki.gg platform over fandom. Has anyone here considered moving wiki to another platform? If yes, why didn't do it?
I have time and desire to help with moving. Or i can do it myself if i have permission from community.

[languid ibex]

The answer is likely, why would it be moved? It functions great.

[errant mauve]

The Eve wiki just moved to a new platform and its looking good

If you want an example of a great wiki
I mean the Eve Uni wiki btw, thats what everyone uses

[languid ibex]

But why was it changed?

[errant mauve]

Dont know sorry

[languid ibex]

Would you say the Valheim wiki isn't looking good?

[errant mauve]

No its a good wiki

[languid ibex]

Sorry I am just unsure of the point you're making then

[errant mauve]

I dont know man it was just a tip I had in reply to CherryThunders question
I didnt bring up anything about the Heim wiki myself

[languid ibex]

I am just confused as to how that's helpful I guess

They asked if anyone has considered moving or why they haven't.

[granite geyser]

For what?

[errant mauve]

Well you know, Cherry asked the question so I will leave it up to them if they found my reply helpful or not

[languid ibex]

Alright that's fair

[wanton atlas]

we have a separate channel for the wiki. this channel is for discussing suggestions from #suggestions channel

[languid ibex]

Hmm, I don't see that channel that's odd

[noble crest]

No, actually, it's don't.
Problem not in wiki itself. Problem in platform. Did you try to use it by phone? There are too many ads, and they are loading too slow. Then you start to read any text, somewhere above loaded some add and all text moved down, and you need to search it again.
Desktop version also has ads problem, but i didn't notice it cause i use addblock.
I also playing Oxygen Not Included. And its community moved wiki to wiki.gg, so rn it has two wikis'. And i feel difference between them. And i started to search why many communities chose wiki.gg over fandom. You can actually google something like "fandom or wiki gg".
And when i was surprised that Valheim still uses fandom, so i decided to offer my help 🙂

[noble crest]

I'm sorry. I chose "I want to see all channels" when i picked up a role. Haven't seen a channel dedicated to wiki, so i decided to write here cause i have "suggestion"

[lament sky]

def agree with migrating the wiki, fandom wiki is really painful right now

[wanton atlas]

wiki isn't open anymore due to people just joining and asking questions there 😄

but this topic has been up many times before

but never really "lets move" to wiki.gg

[rose swan]

#suggestions message All for a goat/goat-like creature, but I would hope it would have more or different functionality than an animal for carts 🤔

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message Traders should never have anything to help find them, and especially not anything that just leads directly to them. They are meant to be found naturally through exploring the world, not by having a path set up leading to them in any way.

[lament sky]

I want goats milk/cheese

[rose swan]

Agreed! I think a medium mammal like a goat would be a great end-game food source.
-Milk could be a major component for many foods, similar to how barley flour became pretty integral for every biome since plains. We’ll likely continue to see Harley be used for DN if I had to guess.
-Cheese press or something of that fashion would make for an interesting cooking station, again similar to processing barley.
-Mutton would make for a solid source of meat. Bonus points: could even have a different meat from butchered young specifically (think lamb vs mutton)

Tons of potential! Honorable mentions; obviously animal hides, as per usual. Pail for collecting milk perhaps. DN spoiler ||goat horn would probably be redundant due to the seal-like creatures we’re going to get||

[mellow crater]

We have greydwarf eyes as milk tho

[rose swan]

Can’t drink a greydwarf eye

[lofty wave]

What if eyescream melts?

[mellow crater]

Oh, that true

I suppose we need to prepare it a bit in the cauldron to remove bad stuff inside

But it is clearly used as milk in the recipes

[rose swan]

Can eyescreams melt? They kinda look like cupcakes at most

Are there more food recipes involving greydwarf eyes than eyescream? Looks like they’re used in frost mead, but milky mead seems a bit strange 🤔

“Crispy cool and creamy” I suppose could be interpreted as milky?

[noble crest]

I want to move to wiki.gg. But firstly, i want to know community opinion. Should i write to "suggestion" channel or i just wait for some more answers?
I know Russian and English. I can migrate wiki in those languages.

[lofty wave]

‘The milky eyeball of a Greydwarf.’ On greydwarf eyes

[rose swan]

LOL that is pretty funny! Though given the context, not unusual to describe eyeballs as milky

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Took me a minute to realize you were talking about the leviathans! I think the idea of an oversized leviathan sounds interesting, but I don’t think the whole concept of them should be changed 🤔

Might be difficult to execute well though.

On ships, I just really don’t see how this would play out. Of the examples provided, I just feel like all the mobs would just jump off the ship the moment they aggro on you. And there isn’t really much in terms of ship-based combat besides shooting arrows, but that isn’t really all that engaging.

[wanton atlas]

the wiki people told me after reading your idea of moving, that they don't want to change platform

[noble crest]

Sad
Thank you

[tulip pecan]

it is sad. fandom is awful

[languid ibex]

I like it a lot 😌

[stiff stag]

The ads got really horrid on another wiki that was still on fandom and it was making it unusable until they finally moved, along with others prompting whether you're an adult or a kid, among a handful of other non-user friendly stuff. As far as fandom wikis go the valheim one isn't that bad though (occasionally ads will block sections which is unnecessary and annoying, but most other issues aren't present), but would still be more comfortable if it wasn't tied to fandom.

[brisk matrix]

FYI euni wiki has been hosted in bates basement for years, recently it was a software upgrade that killed the old theme and required a change which is why it now looks different. but hosting is the same

[errant mauve]

Ha ok cool.

[brisk matrix]

fandom is terrible, every time a community moves away the old wiki stays up and rots so it makes it difficult to get a good idea of how many communities have moved away. the warcraft community did twice because they got bought by wikia, split off and went to curse, which then got bought again by fandom (wikia under new name).

for a better idea of how many wikis have moved from fandom to another platform see https://getindie.wiki/listings/

[mellow crater]

I can see it like the ship is an entity that try to reach you and its only « attack » is to stand next to your ship so that the mobs can land in. Maybe even a kind of board would lock your ship to the enemy ship and allow for easy pathfinding.
-# (I don’t have the english vocab for ship battles, sorry).

[languid ibex]

Why is it terrible?

[brisk matrix]

mostly the ads and focing their layout/theme, which had performance issues at one point but they wouldnt let anymore disable it. and their refusal to shut anything down as long as they can milk ad revenue from it even if its out of date and litterally nobody has updated the wiki in years

you can read about warcraft moving away from them twice and all the reasons why on https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/176e0jq/wowpedia_has_moved_we_are_now_warcraft_wiki/

[languid ibex]

So no one has updated it but it's performance issues were fixed? That seems like some confusing information. I enjoy Fandom because it has a familiar layout/theme across each wiki, keeping consistency that way speeds up information gathering.

[brisk matrix]

the performance issues were from the forced theme that gets pushed to every site and constantly updated. The content on those 600+ wikis I linked above that all moved off of fandom is still sitting there rotting with nobody updating them

[languid ibex]

Also, I have yet to have any issues with ads on Valheim's wiki, like not one.

[brisk matrix]

I have seen ads on the valheim wiki taking up over 50% of my screen on my phone

[languid ibex]

I have as well, but there's also a close button available right away.

[brisk matrix]

its a phone screen, needing to click a tiny ass close button is exactly what they want you to do so you can fat finger it and click the ad

[languid ibex]

Servers aren't free, I don't mind that route if it helps keep information alive.

Some communities don't have dedicated people to reroute all the information present, or people with knowledge on how to create a layout.

Seems like bandwagoning to downplay the usefulness of what fandom provides.

[brisk matrix]

and I believe wiki.gg provides almost all of the same but with less intrusive ads and policies

[wanton atlas]

^ no

and this isn't the place to discuss something that isn't going to change

[granite geyser]

adblocks

done

[stiff stag]

Rejected ideas are allowed and discussed all the time here despite also being something that's "not going to change". I believe you meant it's not the place for something off topic to the channel.

[wanton atlas]

the idea to move the wiki page over from Fandom to wiki.gg has been rejected

and where the valheim wiki page isn't really a topic for the discord server to decide

[rose swan]

#suggestions message dang, I told someone I was going to wall off my base using Dvergr stakewalls to get an organic idea of just how much time and resources it would take. I never finished

[weak sinew]

I only can use those in nobuildcost mode haha too expensice

[versed fog]

Yeah, the only iron build piece worth the cost is iron support beams

The grind for iron is just sooo tedious

[lament zinc]

Actually, the iron grate is good too. Makes a great support for stone or grausten floors.

[errant mauve]

Once you get stone portals and ancient armor iron becomes relatively easy to farm

[stone citrus]

GROOG 👏 a suggestion i can't agree more with
Look at these upvotes!!!!

I want to give it 10 more upvotes just from me

Been hating their cost since forever (reduce it even more actually)

[north garden]

Ancient armor? What's that?

[errant mauve]

In the Mistlands there ||are giant armor and weapons dotting the landscape which you can mine for copper and iron||

[north garden]

Oh. I thought you meant an armor set for the viking. This makes more sense.

[errant mauve]

It would be an incredibly cool name for an armor set, but a shame its been used already

[round onyx]

#suggestions message as far as i can tell we rarely get direct upgrades to things like that (notably, stone portal and chests) but i could definitely see a structure like that maybe showing up with deep north, and having its main purpose be the new material and also happen to smelt everything else too

[stone citrus]

🤝

[granite geyser]

and what would we do with smelters and furnaces?

[rose swan]

I’m sorry, I couldn’t complete the mission 😂 even just 10 of these is an insane cost lol

[rose swan]

#suggestions message Fellas, mission was successful! Greatswords are now able to cleave through hordes with no penalty! Time to role play as Guts Gatsu and slaughter as many enemies as possible in one swing of a Slayer

[wanton atlas]

*Gatsu

[sick breach]

Same thing we do with old equipment, blueberries, and old cooking fires - nothing. Maybe reclaim the materials.

[granite geyser]

Old equipment can be used for recovering your tombstone after dying

Blueberries are still used in some late foods.

Old cooking fires (first one) can be built while exploring and get a quick rested bonus almost anywhere.

So none of that applies. Question still stands

[rose swan]

Isn’t the latest blueberry good the muckshake? 🤔

They’re used In Ratatoskr, which is relevant the entire game I would say.

[peak bronze]

Ratatosk and tasty meads need the regular supply of blueberries.

[wispy bough]

ah man, ive never +1 a suggestion that fast in my life. Seen it mentioned in valheim chat, and I cant stress enough how useful those blueberry seeds would be just for decorating a base, let alone actually harvesting

[rose swan]

Thank you, the bushes salute you 🫡

[rose swan]

Ahh that’s right, tasty mead as well. Always forget about that one!

[peak bronze]

No one notice one of the best meads in game.

[rose swan]

I should probably utilize it a bit more, but I try not to keep a whole brewery on me rat is a staple however.

[peak bronze]

Ratatosk stays forever. Tasty and HP too mostly.

[rose swan]

I like to keep ratatosk, HP, and raw stamina. For my Eitr build, I used to keep Eitr potions on me, but I didn’t find them too useful outside of boss fights.

[rose swan]

#suggestions message I feel the hoe would fill this role a bit better 🤔

[stiff stag]

#suggestions message fortunately the force delete command can remove pickable objects, though it would be nice to have a normal method to do so (like the hoe as mentioned just now, and possibly the cultivator for things like dandelions, thistles, etc.).

[languid ibex]

Don't all commands label the stat readout with "Cheater!"?

[peak bronze]

Use the commands with character that doesn't matter if that got the cheater tag. 👉🧠

[languid ibex]

That still doesn't answer my question 😛

[rose swan]

#suggestions message LOL these two suggestions 😂

[peak bronze]

Might, or might not. Most do tho.

[fierce ore]

Well, my wife and shield-maiden do complain that the game requires two beds for us lol

[rose swan]

Surprisingly it’s actually a topic that comes up more often than you think
Seems there at least a handful of players who simply want to share a dragon bed together for a more cozy feel for their home.

#suggestions message

[eternal wyvern]

Lowkey fits co-op vibes

[peak bronze]

Some people just want to kiss a homie with good night kiss.

[lofty wave]

If you aren't making a stack of beds for multiplayer you're doing it wrong

[rose swan]

A bunk bed

#suggestions message gotta be a female to vote on this one

[jagged flame]

Has anyone here ever heard of the Egtved Girl?

[jagged flame]

You don't have to be female to vote on whether you like it or not.

[rose swan]

I’m just being a goober, don’t mind me
And no, I haven’t heard of the Egtved girl 🤔

[jagged flame]

She's a young woman whose grave was unearthed in the Egtved region of Denmark, hence her name; what makes her so famous is hers' one of four surviving examples of Bronze Age Scandinavian womens clothing. & This's what it looks like. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1361530094752895007/lossy-page1-1920px-Kvindegrav_fra_Egtved_00057.png?ex=68c18c76&is=68c03af6&hm=79b1fc3aa107cebf599430352f81e2f3f78148548e86c5e6c436d84f24ab9df2&

[rose swan]

Looked it up- looks like she was a Nordic young women who’s remains were found and they have a museum of sort of her?

Oops! We both must’ve hit send at the same time! Super cool history stuff

[jagged flame]

In the case of the Bronze Age, prehistory would be more accurate.

Anyways, did you click on that link I gave you?

[rose swan]

I did, looks like her clothing?

And some other things as well. And her hair 🤔

[jagged flame]

That's my point; her outfit survived almost completely intact, & that's what makes her so famous.

Hers isn't the only example either; here's the other three. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1386131352318902282/image.png?ex=68c1662b&is=68c014ab&hm=0bcd091d67be4f7c7f1f71c8f6d556414d15274b3c54f9887c8c99abf945c05a&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1383240200943046797/Screenshot_2025-06-13_174906.png?ex=68c16d93&is=68c01c13&hm=06602672a55f83b3f3319e9ea51cad568704f063502d67d9c0916516c62c8729&

https://youtu.be/OTdbYeNu2Z0?si=QzhIO62aeQqY4430

& here's some sketches, & reconstructions of their outfits. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1365753675334553670/Screenshot_2025-04-25_174004.png?ex=68c117fa&is=68bfc67a&hm=58cac158eb62b76b490acbb48ad49c7ee44ded641b241809181a6de1c74e5c16&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1390416350320529528/Screenshot_2025-07-03_143258.png?ex=68c12ae2&is=68bfd962&hm=0c237ab32d58d9c74ee99cd188f76714f4c31b557e9f33f05b04e48f54fd8c74&

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064359696053587978/1365753674898473000/Screenshot_2025-04-25_173159.png?ex=68c117fa&is=68bfc67a&hm=1a798424d241838e3849da110578de7c6ebc211095c8d2b8d501a9432acf876c&

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/2f/59/7a/2f597a7fc0694e7ee2109a8c1e976d8d.jpg

https://youtu.be/qY6Lz7RdAMY?si=XX0MqAUeLa7vV-lk

The fact that all four surviving outfits're like this suggests young Scandinavian women really did dress that way in the Nordic Bronze Age; & if Irongate Studios do decide to add it, it'd make it, & the female character wearing it look a whole lot better if the female character model were more femininely shaped like I described in my suggestion, as well as all the female clothing already in the game.

[tulip pecan]

Wish we could get the ability to post images back in this chat again. Would make discussion surrounding this topic (and other complex topics) much easier.

I spent all of 45 seconds negotiating with Smiffe to enable that privilege for us, and then dirty hackers went and robbed us of it 😭

[jagged flame]

Well, I managed to get around it by posting links instead; you wanna take a look at them to see what I'm talking about?

[tulip pecan]

When I'm not on my phone i will

[jagged flame]

Start with the one where I explain to TooMuchDog who the Egtved Girl is, as I posted a link to a picture of her outfit there.

[pale oasis]

Bronze age is a bit early for a game about Vikings, but to be fair, they also gave us crossbows and catapults. 🤷‍♂️

[glacial ivy]

@jagged flame although I still take issue with the clothing part, the bodily proportion change is not justifiable with the excuse of human culture. Human culture cannot change human anatomy enough in a short enough time span where there would be a noticeable difference between cultures. This is even more apparent in an age of cross continental travel which was possible in the Vikings time.

[jagged flame]

I believe you somewhat misunderstood me; I wasn't suggesting that the female character model constantly change, just that it be reshaped to look more feminine; it'd still be in that shape constantly like the current one is.

[glacial ivy]

And even if you do assume their proportions were different from the rest of the world’s, if you’re going for complete historical accuracy how about we get rid of the option to fight as a women entirely, because it is debatable whether or not they ever even fought.

[errant mauve]

Internet people be like, world trees and forging weapons with magic juice is OK, but a woman? Now we're getting too far from historical accuracy

[glacial ivy]

And you misunderstood me. I was opposing the idea of a more “feminine” appearance for the female character as a whole, not just as a variable thing (or just as a constant for that matter)

[glacial ivy]

We all know historical accuracy was never the real reason for wanting to make a video game character’s boobs bigger. Still entertaining to point out how horrible of an argument historical accuracy is for the suggestion.

[jagged flame]

But why would you oppose female characters looking more feminine? Other survival games do it just to encourage players to play as female characters on occasion, even if fanservice isn't the goal. Having feminine looking female characters'll only help Valheim compete against those other survival games in the long run.

[jagged flame]

& like in every other survival game, you do end up in the Bronze Age at some point; even if it's much shorter than the actual Bronze Age was. Plus, the burial chambers resemble Nordic Bronze Age tombs, & the skeletons that haunt them're armed with Bronze weapons; so they're clearly incorporating some elements of the Nordic Bronze Age into the game.

[glacial ivy]

A few reasons. Firstly, femininity is entirely subjective (e.g. someone might feel that it is more feminine for a woman to have a stronger core, while another person could thing the opposite), although the definition of femininity is really just semantics in this case. The second thing is that making women in video games overly sexualized objectifies and in some ways alienates them. Also, using said sexualization as a marketing tactic is dishonest and manipulative, and would fail to showcase what really makes valheim so captivating. This type of marketing can also turn off women because it objectifies and sexualizes them.

[jagged flame]

Madam Savvy & a lot of other women would disagree; the only women offended by that're narcissistic feminists who don't even play games & just wanna control what other people consume.

Also, dishonest & manipulative? What the Hell's dishonest & manipulative about showing both masculine male characters & feminine, attractive female characters doing what players'll actually be doing in the game? I'm sorry but that's nonsense.

[glacial ivy]

Do they incorporate slavery slavery into valheim? It was a cornerstone of their society, but it obviously doesn’t fit into valheim. It’s the same with what you’re proposing. And even if it did have reason to be represented in the game, a true representation would not skew female proportions to sell game copies. And without the sexualization that comes with unrealistic female proportions you’re left with a feature that is needlessly controversial and unproductive.

@jagged flame I think we should take this into dms for the sake of not being to controversial here.

[peak bronze]

How we can have slaves tho if we are alone in purgatory?

[glacial ivy]

Why would the women have to follow social norms set by a society that oppresses them if we are alone in purgatory?

[jagged flame]

I never suggested anything unrealistic; lots of women do in fact have an hourglass figure, & Scandinavian women in particular're known to have a pretty large average boob size.

& let's not forget, the Norse did in fact worship a goddess of feminine beauty & sex; Freyja. so it does in fact make sense for women to be beautiful in the game.

[glacial ivy]

Source?

[jagged flame]

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/breast-size-by-country

& this's just one thing; even the new search AI confirms as much. They have the genetics for it.

https://scandasia.com/scandinavian-women-have-biggest-cup-size-while-thai-women-among-smallest/ Here's another.

[stark furnace]

🔮

[glacial ivy]

Ic. You’ve got me there. Still doesn’t make sense for it to be in the game. Sexualization of women has measurable negative effects on their self esteem and mental health. Why didn’t you specify all of this in your suggestion? And could it possibly be that you’re an (no offense) incel who thinks women only exist to have baby and take care of man children like you?

[peak bronze]

🧙‍♀️⌛?

[jagged flame]

Again, look into Madam Savvy; she's a woman who actually games & regularly debunks that nonsense. It's only narcissistic feminists who don't even play games that get their fee-fees hurt by it; normal women want to look good, both in the real world & in fiction, which videogames are.

[languid ibex]

I think it's safe to say there's other objectively better points raised that deserve focus.

[wooden sierra]

I love valheim's simple character models and think they look lovely and fit so well with the game's visuals ❤️ Would be neat if the fem model could do beards but otherwise, IMO they are perfect. I find my viking ladies perfectly feminine ^_^

[errant mauve]

Ah yes, the year of our lord 2014

[mortal lichen]

lolwhat
I saw the bear outfit and I was like hell yeah get them tiddies out girl finally

also the model is fine (even some of the devs prefer using the female model for their main)

the MALE devs as in

[glacial ivy]

Who decides what looking good is? You seem to think it’s you? Why do you have any right to decide what looks good and what doesn’t? Your opinion on the matter certainly doesn’t matter to anyone who has a sense of self value.

[jagged flame]

I never said I was deciding that for everyone; stop putting words in my mouth! I suggested that particular body shape because from what I've seen & read, that's the general consensus on the ideal female body shape.

& I'm not talking about the stick figure supermodel kind either.

[glacial ivy]

This doesn’t invalidate actual studies and statistics that say that sexualization in media hurts women. Search it up ffs.

[wanton atlas]

🤔

[languid ibex]

This topic can only devolve into mudslinging, it might be good just agree to disagree here.

[wanton atlas]

you guys/gals better

[jagged flame]

& who did those studies, & who did they poll? Because I've seen plenty of studies that say the opposite.

[wanton atlas]

since fighting is bad

[jagged flame]

Fine.

[glacial ivy]

Fair point, especially in the presence of the all powerful god deity developer :)

[mortal lichen]

telling me to google my own opinions on a topic is wild

[errant mauve]

The ideal body shape has limbs and a head coming out of it

[jagged flame]

Hence he only proves my point.

[wanton atlas]

it's a game

pixels and stuff

imagine there are like. alot of players in china playing valheim

they have normally issues with skulls of humans in games

so far I haven't seen any "omg, woman with paint" from a chinese gaming magazine

so if they can chillax. I would hope ya'll can to

[brisk matrix]

are you even legally allowed to sell in china?

[errant mauve]

I think the model is fine, someone just make a big tiddy viking gf mod for anyone who is so inclined 😅

[wanton atlas]

yes

steam you know?

[brisk matrix]

shocking since most games have to replace skeltons with zombies to be sold in china

[glacial ivy]

If you weren’t disagreeing with me, why say lolwhat. Seems awfully argumentative. I didn’t even really present an argument, just that sexualization of women in media has been to proven to harm them

[wanton atlas]

yeah

[wanton atlas]

I was suprised aswell. but they love being vikings killing stuff

[stark furnace]

Is it time for an inventory discussion

[wanton atlas]

@glacial ivy please just drop the subject on hand

[glacial ivy]

Ok :/

[wanton atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-indeed-count-gif-13069864657272028254

[errant mauve]

It would be an improvement haha

[mortal lichen]

Proven is a stretch, who did they poll? What country? Age? What year? It's so subjective

[brisk matrix]

do I have to get out my soapbox about how bad backpacks are on controller

[jagged flame]

Exactly what I asked.

[glacial ivy]

Just defending myself imo tho

[wanton atlas]

just stop 😄

I don't wanna put ya'll to bed early tonight

[glacial ivy]

lol

[mortal lichen]

i'm dropping it (unlike a bear trophy)

[errant mauve]

What do we think about doubling up adrenaline when you are hitting or avoiding being hit by a starred mob?

[stark furnace]

Hmm

[languid ibex]

scribbles out smiffe muting people over body debate on bingo card

[errant mauve]

2x for 1 star, 4x for 2
Its damn hard to pop your trinket with melee

[wanton atlas]

btw. the person who won our speedrun competition was from mainland china

[stark furnace]

Yea he’s actually insane at the game

[wanton atlas]

mhm

he also doubles up sending me constant bug or issues

[stark furnace]

I’ve talked to him and we’ve shared a bunch of tech and ideas, genius mind

[stark furnace]

Imma vote 👎 tbh

But it’s like a 60/40

[errant mauve]

I crafted my first trinket, the ashland tier one and took a portal to the ashlands thinking well theres so many spawns there it will be easy to make adrenaline
The thing is though, you realise actually you have to fight defensively there so its actually not easy, the adrenaline system seems to require constant moves

[glacial ivy]

What’s the speed-running community of this game like? Tis my first time hearing about

[wanton atlas]

https://www.speedrun.com/valheim

[stark furnace]

Adrenaline is much easier to maintain on mage then melee so maybe that’s part of it

Moment your adrenaline starts decreasing just throw a random fireball and you stop the decline and gain 3 adrenaline

[errant mauve]

Yes deffinitely, and it encoruages you to always be using your eiter as a mage, as people say in the FF14 community, ABC always be casting

Even if theres no mobs nearby, cant hurt to make another skeleton

[stark furnace]

Ye

Skele is what 10 adrenaline?

[errant mauve]

Adrenaline melee seems to be a positive feedback loop for very skilled players, since if you can constantly be doing parries dodges ect then it will fill fast
But I have a way more defensive style where I wait for a golden opportunity to start swinging and its really hard to fill it

[stark furnace]

Well and waiting for the opportunity in Ashlands is pretty brutal

[errant mauve]

I like to spend a few moments to think through my options, its not a very fluid style

It gets really tricky with multiple mobs that hit hard, especially multiple warriors because their swings get desynced, the archers and twitchers you shouldnt take much damage from if you just keep moving

This is why I really got into the tower shield, I can block all that damage whilst my slow brain decides what to do

Some kind of weapon where you could catch a mob and reel it in towards you would be really useful, because then you can draw them away from the group one at a time and not have to avoid all the other attacks from other mobs

[vocal thicket]

Making it a feature of the fishing pole, maybe?
Like Baelin in "Baelin's Route".

[glacial ivy]

what is inventory

[wanton atlas]

things on a shelf in a store 🤔

[glacial ivy]

true dat

[peak bronze]

Do we carry shelves then?

[wanton atlas]

you are the shelf

https://tenor.com/view/shelf-gif-26505761

[pale oasis]

I actually made a primitive Kallax shelf in-game once for my invisible Viking board games (I just put signs up naming games where they would have gone) 😆

[errant mauve]

I need to experiment first but it looks like if youre struggling with generating adrenaline then it might be better to use a trinket from a much earlier biome which require less adrenaline
Better to use a black forrest tier trinket for 25% health regen which you can pop almost continually, as apposed to the ashlands tier one which has a better effect however requires twice as much adrenaline so you'll hardly ever be under its effect

I didnt take part in the tests but surely these are huge for boss battles where its going to be easy to generate adrenaline and you can potentially pop them again before the timer even runs out

[icy sable]

@wanton atlas Hi what you think about my new UI design ? https://imgur.com/a/nYAcXv6 🙂

[open dagger]

#suggestions message why would someone even downvote this

[round onyx]

scroll up and you can see the whole argument about it

[molten bloom]

because I like boobs

[wanton atlas]

@molten bloom don't bandwagen on other players suggestions

[molten bloom]

what do you mean?

[wanton atlas]

don't add on to someone elses suggestion

don't "I like this persons suggestion, but add X to it aswell"

[molten bloom]

I don't recall that ever being a rule but ok

again I could've just edited it to remove the first part which was just a nicety to acknowledge the suggestion above mine and it would've been the same thing but now I have to wait thirty minutes to repost it 😹

[stiff stag]

It's been mentioned quite a bit by smiffe not to do so for a little while now, though a pinned message would be good for those that have missed that info.

[wanton atlas]

they could need a touch-up 🤔

[rose swan]

Might be a good time to touching up the suggestion rules a bit. Usually post-update there’s a big influx of suggestions and discussions…
🐻 👙

[stark furnace]

🐻 👙 —>

[rose swan]

Bears, bras and bigger inventories

[stark furnace]

The 3B's of valheim discussions for a bit

[peak bronze]

Well, bears are added, so bras next?

[stark furnace]

Bears --> beets --> battlestar galactica

[wanton atlas]

BSG ❤️

[rose swan]

—> Berries

Sorry I had to, y’all know me 😂

[languid ibex]

Maybe I am just a stickler for design choices, but suggestions like #suggestions message make me wonder if they ever stop to think about why it's a good thing to encourage building elsewhere.

[rose swan]

Agreed, I think it’s important that different areas have different reasons for having some sort of base. Spices things up for sure. If these norms are to be broken, I think their should be an associated cost of some sort 🤔

[tulip pecan]

Dunno what Smiffe thinks, but this isn't the first or even third redesign of Valheim's UI I've seen
Most of them, including this one, don't seem to "get" the UI they're redesigning in the first place and just pave over it with generic modern UX

[rose swan]

3 ammo slots, 3 food slots, and 3 quick slots. That’s a tall glass of water 🤔

[unique ferry]

Of course not, if it were up to players the entire game would just be in the meadows, you'd get top tier weapons right at spawn, no raids and all creatures set to passive. Everything would be a one hit kill and drop 40x resources.

[unique ferry]

Dunno about Smiffe's opinion either but this looks absolutely horrible, not to mention you can't open the inventory and run/interact with anything at the same time

[rose swan]

Welcome to the server Cominqo

[languid ibex]

Bahaha oh no that sounds like a nightmare

[tepid sorrel]

why do people think a armor made from a blunt, pierce and slash resistent creature should turn you into a literal glass cannon that shatters as soon as the creature that was used to make the armor lands 1 hit?

[unique ferry]

Bears are not resistant to slash