suggestion-discussion

[wanton edge]

I don't think this is masochism fueled, just looking at ways portals can be changed to support the game philosophy more instead of being "entire base in your pocket at all times" devices

[amber wind]

Though for me...it's like 50:50 innovation/mascohism.

Anything that makes the game more challenging and tedious is 👍 from me.

[wanton edge]

Heavy armors just have higher armor, they never get any buffs 😦

[stiff stag]

It's absolutely masochism fueled. Taking a feature designed for convenience and trying to turn it into the complete opposite of that and make it impractical to use. You already have the option to disable portals if you don't like them, don't force the nonsense you want onto everyone else.

[amber wind]

I think portals are just a bit too convenient. And if you have the option to turn them on and make them portal everything, why are you forcing us to not discuss the nerfing of them?

[wanton edge]

A weapon that can one shot everything in the game would certainly be convenient too, or being invulnerable, or being able to fly, or any number of other things that would break the game. Convenience isn't always the best guiding principal to follow

[stiff stag]

Because the vast majority of people are fine with how they are designed, and they already function as they are meant to. If you want it nerfed then suggest a toggle/setting. Again, there's no excuse trying to force your masochism onto others.

[amber wind]

I can agree with that. We aren't really forcing anyone to do anything. Just discussing interesting ways to make the game more fun for ourselves.

[stiff stag]

When you suggest changing the default behavior, it definitely comes off as trying to force it onto others. Surely you can see why that would be detrimental overall. I would be perfectly fine if those changes were behind settings so people have that option, and that's what it should be for everyone, an option.

[amber wind]

Absolutely. I agree with this. Make it optional. Everything is good.

[austere wyvern]

you might get more upvotes if you weren't negative at all because the negativity is, i'm sure, a cause for the downvotes.

[stiff stag]

There's that, and pretty sure what they suggested is rejected and for good reason.

[wanton edge]

I disagree that they function how they are meant to. They negate a lot of the philosophy and direction of the game that the devs have said they want; its really difficult to balance how to give a little bit of convenience for how large the world is, but not undermine the experience and danger of the game. Based on the contradictions between what devs say they want the game to be vs the effects of portals, I think current portals are a developmental hiccup from when they were initially only allowed to be built in certain places, then expanded to anywhere, vs being designed hositically

[silk halo]

but having them burn in Ashlands is fine?

[amber wind]

I kind of look at the "default" options as the way the devs meant the game to be played. So it doesn't really matter what I think the default options are gonna be, because the devs have their own vision and that's what they are gonna set the defaults as.

[silk halo]

yup

[amber wind]

So if we set aside the "default" settings and just assume all these suggestions are just optional settings or game modes, is that good to let us discuss them?

[silk halo]

that's why i suggested making them not work in DN

only 28 downvotes 🤣

[amber wind]

I can see disabling portals in certain biomes. That could be an interesting challenge to overcome.

[austere wyvern]

i am not so sure that there is good reason to downvote his suggestion. but i like the idea of having to work for things i make and have in the game rather than porting in items, or duping them with hammer mode and mode changing and world hopping. especially when playing with friends and the friend leaves the world, and comes back with all this gear and materials that he didn't have to work for.

[amber wind]

Yeah, I've had this discussion about disabling world hopping a number of times, and the very few loud minority have come back very vehemently against it as the world hopping is a feature, and then something about how it's unfair to the players if their character is locked onto a server they don't have complete control over...the argument seems flawed to me...or pretty much the equivalent to "trust the people you invite to your server". So ultimately to me, it comes down to something like "the devs have implemented it this way, they aren't gonna change it"

[silk halo]

yet hardly anyone voted for it in my suggestion 🤷

[amber wind]

Upvotes and downvotes don't really matter. Think about it...the "vast majority" of people on this server is like 0.000000001% of all Valheim players. You are getting a tiny sliver of sampling.

[silk halo]

still bears out

[austere wyvern]

"the very few 'loud' minority" 🤣 yeah, i think they are the ones who like to abuse it. It still makes no sense to allow it. i think the devs can see that their game depends on the majority and its success is in making the game fun and not boring

[runic patio]

I had this whole argument back when I originally posted then and no one could properly explain why this would be bad other than the devs assigning workload on things THEY find unimportant...

[silk halo]

if they are 80% against a suggestion that carries weight

[stiff stag]

80% of 0.0000000001% is still extremely small.

[silk halo]

then this channel is pointless

well not this one suggestions

[stiff stag]

It isn't. Suggestions aren't meant to get the approval of other players, ultimately only the developer's decisions matter.

[runic patio]

Hahah, it is pretty much, i see it as way to keep suggestion chats out of #valheim-chat

[silk halo]

what's the point having them from such a small minority of players?

[amber wind]

Nah, it's a fun way to exchange ideas and build on them. And the devs might see a suggestion, like it, and decide to implement it.

[silk halo]

that isn't what everyone wants it's only what 0.000000001% want

[austere wyvern]

you can equate a number of the non-verbal players to a certain percentage of the verbal players and come out with a statistical percentage for everyone who feels likewise. (hopefully i said that in a way that makes sense)

[amber wind]

Yeah, okay. This is true. But it could be that a suggestion gets tons of upvotes, but the devs still won't implement it because it's not part of their vision of the game. I hope the opposite is true as well, that it may get a bunch of downvotes, but it works well with their vision of the game and they decide to implement it.

But ultimately is this about wanting people to like your suggestions or about making suggestions that get implemented into the game? If it is the 1st, then good luck. If it is the 2nd, then good luck.

[runic patio]

No, there is a clear subset of Valheim discord users that shows a perticular intent, as there is no reason to downvote THE OPTION of server side player data that holds.

[austere wyvern]

i gotchya. i just hope the devs vision for their game is to please the players of their game in as much as they can and want a successful game and not a boring one with too many ways to cheat and ruin the intent of the game especially in multiplayer games with some friends working for their stuff and others just porting in everything they have and not valuing the work and risk

[warm summit]

On the unity forum they claim that it is enough to switch the target.
😁

“For Unity you just opening the build menu and switching the build target to macOS.”

https://forum.unity.com/threads/apples-game-porting-toolkits-compatibility-with-unity.1448641/

[amber wind]

Absolutely @austere wyvern and @runic patio ! I agree with these statements. Just a way to enforce a certain set of play rules would be nice. But we'll just have to see what happens. Ultimately...it is what it is.

[runic patio]

Agreed

[austere wyvern]

precisely the idea!

[pure patio]

https://youtu.be/qRQX9fgrI4s?si=KaJI5RuijMgngPKb

That's the justification I was told when this was last discussed 😉

[amber wind]

And when the devs fail to make it the game you want it to be, you can always try modding it to the way you want it to be...or convince someone else to. 🙂

[runic patio]

Yeah there is a mod for server side player kinda, but I don't feel like managing mods specially when needed on both client and server side, with the added fact you can need for it to be updated on new patches and added uncertain stability which in my case is already pretty poor...

[silk halo]

it's already the best were just operating on the minutia mainly

[amber wind]

Yeah, during dev it's a big of a drag, but after the game is fully released and support ends, it might be easier to maintain. You know...if you are still playing it by then.

[austere wyvern]

they need to get it right quickly because other companies will

[runic patio]

I dunno if this game'll be perpetually updated though, pretty much like MC, given the time it's been in alpha... IMHO they'll keep at it as long as people purchase copies....

[warm summit]

😁😁😁
so 1000 USD is a problem for ironGate?

[silk halo]

they said there will be some final performance/fixes and stuff, but no new biomes or bosses

[amber wind]

After Deep North, right?

[pure patio]

The amount of developer work required for virtually no return on the investment is the biggest issue. I say this as someone literally on a Mac laptop right this second.

[silk halo]

y

[austere wyvern]

Please for the love of ODIN or whoever, puts some love into the Ocean before the game is finsished

[pure patio]

That is planned.

[austere wyvern]

realllllyyy???

[silk halo]

i'm thinking it will be a side project while DN gets done

[pure patio]

Yes. After the Deep North they've still got some other vague plans, but they either aren't telling or don't know details yet.

[austere wyvern]

well that is GOOOOD news!

[silk halo]

yeh there's still some juuice to be squeezed 🙂

[granite geyser]

Ocean should be before DN...

Unless they plan it to be the actual final biome but that might be weird

[warm summit]

ok i'm willing to do it for free, with my developer acc on my own macos.
but I don't have a unity license.
😁😁😁

it doesn't matter, I'll live with a rosette. 🤷🏿

thank you for your time and patience.

[wanton atlas]

@sage crest sadly Twitter stop allowing us to auto-post from there platform 😦

[wanton atlas]

oh lord it's not that easy

almost all shaders are broken on Mac.. (as I was told since it been tested long before the beta test began in 2020)

[sage crest]

Aw man

Is it for bots, or all posting?

[wanton atlas]

well, manual posting is a thing. but you need a twitter account to interact so :/

[sage crest]

Ok

[wanton edge]

100% this, the ocean affects so much more as the connective biome of the game - heck if one of the two had to go unfinished, I'd happily toss out deep north for ocean love.

Although an ocean update will be a proper "start a new world and character" event like hearth & home was, vs ashlands and deep north not so much. So I guess encouraging new playthroughs with everything finished makes sense

[past idol]

If the ocean biome gets much more serious (which I would also love), I reeaally hope we can get a new boat. Something bigger and stronger with shelter and a hearth and more storage. Maybe arbelests that launch harpoons or something. 🤌🏻

[wanton edge]

I want more boat progression but not sure if I want it to turn into a portable base 🤔 Mostly I want a way to transport tames on a boat without them jumping off to attack stuff.

I think it might be neat if there was a choice in boat progression too - like one that's faster vs one with more storage or something. So its not just a linear progression but choices with tradeoffs

Speaking of choices - how many folks use heavy armor over light armor?

[earnest sinew]

i've said this in suggestions before and got net-downvoted lol
then seen someone suggest a ship that comes with livestock transport capability get only upvotes

[rose swan]

I think I might be one of the few who prefer heavy armor lol

[earnest sinew]

IMO heavy armour suffers because the movement speed cost usually means you're going to get hit and lose health, but with enough movespeed you often don't even need to dodge.
being able to tank large hits doesn't matter when nobody's fast enough to hit you in the first place

[stiff stag]

There's that, and later on enemies hit so hard the extra defense doesn't really matter much anyway.

[earnest sinew]

option a: you can take 2 hits. you are going to take two hits and die sooner or later.
option b: you can take 1 hit. you can, with skill, avoid ever taking this hit.

[rose swan]

100% agree with y’all. I think movement speed debuff is interesting, but the trade-off isn’t worth it. I’d really like current ‘heavy armor’ sets to become more light medium sets, then have some actual heavy sets- like iron plate for example- that perhaps give a melee damage boost or a resistance or something.

[earnest sinew]

heavy-heavy armour with much higher defense and set buff to stamina drain when blocking/parrying: if my armour is heavy enough, I am the immovable object

[rose swan]

Maybe throw some knock back resistance in there too 🤌

[earnest sinew]

also some fairly brutal move-speed reductions to account for the fact that you're hauling around a half-ton of iron plate on your body

but to the point where they won't matter because 2-star draugr elites start running out of breath before they can actually do enough damage to you

[wanton edge]

It really depends on how things are worded sometimes, and also the mob effect - if it starts out and gets a certain amount of up/down votes from the first folk who see it, I think there tends to be a bit of momentum that keeps carrying it that direction

[wanton edge]

How come you still use heavy armor then? What benefit do you see in it?

I feel like the current heavy armor needs just a little sumthin sumthin to make it a more balanced choice, but I also don't think it needs much - it feels like it might be easy to make it the default best choice?

[rose swan]

Honestly, purely cosmetic lol I just really like the look of most of the heavy choices 😁

Right now, heavy armor feels like the standard/easy set, while light armor feels like the secret/better set.

[viscid crater]

Or just mix pieces

Helmet, root harnesk, fenris legs is enough for the whole game

[earnest sinew]

yeah, i still think I'm absolutely correct and we need something "official" for transporting livestock long ways over sea that isn't just harpoon and prayers, just a bit annoying lol

i started using light armour exclusively as soon as I could, because with how valheim's combat and stagger works, one hit from an enemy is often either death or leads VERY swiftly to it. light armour just means that a) I can move that much faster and likely avoid it b) I get cool set bonuses and c) I have to spend less time prospecting/mining/smelting. that's the only difference I've really noticed between this LA playthrough and my first HA playthrough

[rose swan]

Personally, I wish there were maybe like 3 armor options per biome roughly, but I understand that takes a ton of work.

[wanton edge]

That's fair!

[viscid crater]

The movespeed penalties really add up once you equip weapons too

[earnest sinew]

i thought you said three MORE for a second and nearly fractured my skull LOL
i could live with 3, balanced/light/heavy or something similar. I'd quite like something towards the end of the game that let you bring certain legacy sets up to scratch with the endgame requirements because I'd love an archery-tier armour but I'm not gonna be caught dead wearing swamp gear in mistlands or plains. may as well be naked at that point

[wanton edge]

I just like being fast and zoomy. I tried really hard to be the heavy armor tank when playing with my sisters, and it just doesn't feel effective at all. Though I might have been too fast to throw myself in danger to try to protect them. You can stand there with a tower shield up for awhile, its just hard to break out of that situation

maybe I should try again at some point with better impulse control & player skillz

[stiff stag]

What generally kills me the most in later biomes is being staggered to death, which can happen easily when enemies run in packs and when dealing with starred enemies. What's really bad is rapid attacks or multiple enemies trying to hit you at the same time, with no opening to break them apart. Heavy armor does very little against those situations.

[earnest sinew]

this, exactly this. at a certain point you're not ever getting hit by just one enemy. you're either killing them all or you're getting hit by 5 of them with the "home run" sound from Wii Baseball playing in the background

[wanton edge]

a tower shield and heavy armor can stand being mauled on for awhile, but its hard to break out of that situation by yourself

[stiff stag]

Like a turtle knocked on its back.

[earnest sinew]

yeah. great strat for multi but if you're gonna solo you need to be able to hit. this is why stamina builds are my go-to with light armour now. too fast to hit, with enough lemon juice left over to slap 'em back

[wintry bobcat]

I like light armor with health food

Light armor and high run skill so I can move like a turbosnail without worrying too much about stamina, 2-3 hp foods so I don't get oneshot

[finite vapor]

Tower shields are terrible but sadly they don't seem too interested in improving them
Root harnesk is ridiculously op for plains+mistlands, and yeah I always rock fenris legs for a bit of speed. Mind you it's fun to run full fenris in normal mode

Root harnesk is more safer than carapace breastplate imo and faster. The seekers do 90/100/120 and the attack that does 120 is Pierce. Also ticks are usually terrifying but harmless with root harnesk

I think double stamina food is safe enough on normal but I run it on very hard too like an idiot

[wintry bobcat]

Root Harnesk on very hard is so damn OP

[humble acorn]

This doesn't make too much sense to me

• You knew that you needed Eikthyr pick to break metal (after you got the pick at least)
• You obviously made a bronze pick either because you couldn't mine the iron sludge or you just did so automatically
• You made an iron pick as silver cannot be mined with bronze (someone fact check this, something in mountains must be iron req'd)
• You got the marker for Bonemass before Moder
• You can see from the enemy composition and strength that mountain is noticeably harder than swamp (even in iron armour this is true)

Also, Hugin gives you clues throughout the game "You have a swamp key, use it to go to sunken crypts", what do you find there? Iron + Bonemass vegvisirs.

I found a branch from where I could snipe it, only taking out archers that spawned, so that was a bit lame.

I mean you chose to kill it in that lame way no? Even though you had stacked gear for that fight (well maybe not a mace)

[warm summit]

As I already mentioned, apple has a shader converter. I keep reading a lot of nonsense. Here is a video that talks about 0.02%. where is that number from? unity claims that this is one switch in the project. so where is the truth?
If IronGate would tell us the whole game is in C# and not in C++, then I understand that it is a lot of work. But so far I have only seen meaningless excuses. This year, EpicGames opens a store for ios, macos, win, linux and android. They announced that all new games will support macos and as much as possible will support ios. If it were 0.02% true, they wouldn't do it. If it were so difficult, I also think they wouldn't do it.

If the apple converter cannot transfer their shaders, just ask apple for a fix.

[humble acorn]

Building for Mac is much more complicated than that though? Also shader code is outrageously complex, I doubt a converter will just work

Someone showed you a video explaining why building for Mac is one of the worst things ever, ESPECIALLY for a game that is in early access and needs to be built often

[warm summit]

do you mean the video where it is 0.02%?

So Apple made a shader converter just like that?
because it doesn't work and is useless? 🙀

[humble acorn]

I said 'will just work', not sure why you are calling it useless after glazing apple so hard. I am sure it's useful and you can optimize your games shaders to have a high success rate when converting. But like it's just a converter, it's not perfect, it's not specially designed for Valheim.

Apple has had long standing issues with games and is arguably in a worse spot for playing games than Linux is, despite having infinite money and only one version of the OS

[wanton atlas]

We would have to fix all those shaders ourselves. Along other things.

Apple doesn't work for free for us 🥲

Alot of people have been asking for a MacOS port for a long while now. (Pretty much since day 1)

But we are just a small small team. So maybe down the line, maybe not. We shall see

[earnest sinew]

i hear that's a monumental PITA, surely the game works fine if you just create a pocket universe on the mac where it's windows instead

[wanton atlas]

PITA?

[earnest sinew]

i know that's not what it's actually called but i forgot the name

[earnest sinew]

Pain In The Ass

[wanton atlas]

ah

[humble acorn]

Why do people seem to be 50/50 on letting the cultivator plant like a 3x3 or similar as well as harvesting in a radius? What are some reasons for farming needing to be SO tedious?

[finite vapor]

There's plenty of mods to upgrade it

[wanton atlas]

@coral dock there is a world modifier you can adjust if you want to teleport ores and things.
but it will never be a standard setting in the game

[wanton atlas]

people plant 1000 things

and then have a trillion carrots they never will use

[humble acorn]

I do think holding some sort of keyboard modifier to pick up multiple crops would be cool at the very least

[humble acorn]

mod.exists ! = vanillaFeature

[finite vapor]

I don't think it's necessary I'm the laziest mf with farming but easily have enough crops for myself

[eternal storm]

I have 5 characters in the same world and only one of them cultivates a micro farm which is like 5x10 meters, which I don't spend much time on. Also, just 1 beehive. I also use a mod that adds seasons and most of the time I can't grow much. Guess what? I never run out of food.

To be frank, farming should be made more compelling and nerfed so it's a challenge in itself. While being not fun, it's also not necessary to do very often, so right now adding more convenience solves nothing.

[humble acorn]

Yeah I find myself not having enough food and needing to farm regularily

[finite vapor]

Like when I do carrots onions turnips I wait until I harvest 30-50 before I start using them

Then use half replant the rest or something

I try and keep the replant number about 30 seeds/90 fresh veggies

Really doesn't take long to do because you don't have to do carrots once you have onions and arguably turnips too

[humble acorn]

I have to completely disagree with "It's not fun, but you don't have to do it often" both because I do feel like it's necessary to do often. And, I also don't think it's a good thing to have a component of the game which is being seen as not fun for such a simple reason as the amount of clicking it takes.

I also disagree with nerfing it in anyway because Valheim isn't a farming sim. I think it just needs to be improved and there are simple options and complex options.

[finite vapor]

Once you get to barley flax it's easy mode because you use half replant the rest again and again and can harvest with atgeir/sledge
Mistlands even easier it's 1 for 3

[humble acorn]

This doesn't fix the core complaint of having to place everything 1 by 1 and press e on everything 1 by 1

[finite vapor]

It's really not that bad? You can hold E and wiggle your mouse around

[round lotus]

For planting you can also just walk forward and spam LMB.

[finite vapor]

Ye or hold A and D click click click

[humble acorn]

Your character doesn't just spam interact fast enough to where it's not just better to manually spam E

You can also plant things too close together, you can also run out of stam and have to stand there and wait

[finite vapor]

What it works fine in crops you can get 4 a second by holding E and moving it around

[round lotus]

If you use walk mode you never plant too close together.

[finite vapor]

Just get a mod because yes it's a little bit repetitive but you don't need much and that's how they intended it

[round lotus]

just activate walk, look down at a ~45° angle, walk forward and spam LMB. That gets you even, tightly spaced rows of crops at the perfect distance for minimal hassle.

[humble acorn]

I don't have that issue but the point is that you can't just spam place them, there is a tiny bit more precision than that

[humble acorn]

I have never been able to do what you describe, holding E has never acted as an automaic or constant interact

[finite vapor]

I'll have to find a video example

[humble acorn]

Also, these points that are being brought up aren't really WHY some small simple QoL is bad, it's just advice in the current system

[finite vapor]

Because they don't want the game to be easy mode

If you can't be bothered farming then you can use stuff like jerky berries and cooked meat

That's why they exist

[honest salmon]

Challenge doesn't equal QoL though. Tedium isn't challenge.

[humble acorn]

I just tested it, you are correct that you can hold it, but it's not faster than what I usually do

[round lotus]

It would be much easier if all crops worked like flax and barley so you could just harvest them with an atgeir

less effort to implement too i'd imagine

[humble acorn]

The game being easy mode is more like dying and keeping your hotbar, not planting/pickingup a 3x3 of seeds. Holy moly

[humble acorn]

I would say that's more effort as it would require a bit of rebalancing consideration

[eternal wyvern]

I like the idea, but it's pretty much beating a dead horse. I'd say if you want this for yourself, resort to mods, but wouldn't count on seeing it in the vanilla game.

[round lotus]

how so? I'm not talking about changing crop yields, just that ALL plants drop their produce if they're fully grown when you destroy them (instead of just some of them).

[humble acorn]

"Use a mod" is just such an un-helpful thing to bring to the discussion. I am not talking about adding UFOs to the game

[eternal wyvern]

Read it again bud

[humble acorn]

"I wouldn't count on seeing this simple QoL in the game" is also not a good mindset to have

[eternal wyvern]

The developer in charge of reading suggestions and bringing potentially good ones to the team has downvoted it, I'm just being realistic here.

[humble acorn]

It should theoretically be pretty simple to cast a sphere at the interact point and check for the same object in radius and pick them up. That could also be reused for many many other things in the game. I am pretty sure that items do already support dropping different types of items when picked so it could be as simple as adding a seed to the loot table. But then many plants don't drop seeds, they are the seed so it could be weird

[humble acorn]

Satisfactory devs had a hard no on pipes and drones but here we are. The devs will do what they want and we make the suggestions we want. Talking about futility and using a mod to get the desired result doesn't have much to do with the topic

People change their minds, there is no point in making a read on the devs intentions and holding it in their character over X amount of time

[eternal wyvern]

sigh you can make all the suggestion you want, I'm not stopping you, my point is not that it shouldn't be implemented simply because a mod exists, it's that you can enjoy the said feature using a mod (as I have); It is my observation based on the dev's response and years of this being suggested with no positive indication of it making it to the game, that it still won't. You're free to believe otherwise.

[wanton atlas]

Some things we have already ruled out before in our Reddit AMA's

like anything that would benefit multiplayer over singleplayer experience

[humble acorn]

That rule makes a lot of sense and has no potential to make the game worse given how it works, was marketed, and the implementation of multiplayer

[wanton atlas]

so examples.

• Rowing boats together. Only benefit multiplayer. not singleplayer
• Your the designated farmer in your multiplayer play session and want to grid-farm or be able to harvest faster. That would make a balance thing perhaps for multiplayer, but singleplayer crop planting / harvesting would just be a low effort thing by that point

[eternal wyvern]

Wouldn't proximity based difficulty increase be a multiplayer exclusive feature?

[humble acorn]

But that's to negate an advantage, that's not a benefit of multiplayer

[humble acorn]

Yeah, the dedicated farmer just farms at the speed of someone that doesn't have to grind the other materials, that's the 'advantage', they lose some and gain some

[wanton atlas]

yes

the farmer don't have to cut wood, mine stone, copper, iron etc

[runic patio]

For peek farming dufficulty; just add spoilage to consumables :/

[wanton atlas]

no

[runic patio]

And while at it, "farmables"

I'm not saying I like it, it's just something we see in various survival games and would limit the limitless carrots...

[finite vapor]

Spoilage to food is such an unfun mechanic

Punishes playing for cooking more things in advance and having storage

That and charging a ridiculous amount of materials to repair was the worst thing in palworld

[runic patio]

Typically that's mitigated in other games with "preserving" structures and items... and adds another mechanic to "handle"/learn.

I still don't like it either.

[wanton atlas]

only fun in some survival games...
if you have a refridgirator mechanic 😄

[arctic wharf]

Don't think there has ever been a game with food spoilage that I found it fun.
I get the challenge and realism you would hope to attain from it for say... a super brutal and realistic survival experience.
But if I want to micromanage some resources I would rather just play an RTS 🤣
Each to their own with this one.

[round lotus]

It works reasonably well for Grounded, but the spoilage is pretty slow and food is plentiful pretty much anywhere so its pretty much a non-issue unless you want to stockpile a lot

And it has a fridge item on top of that too

[wanton atlas]

anytime you can stack food in piles. spoiling food is out the window

@round lotus the issue is that when the player goes to far away from skeletons, they will despawn

[granite geyser]

And 100% of the time it messes with item stacking.

Imagine each of your food items being in its own slot instead of sharing a single one because each unit has a different spoilage value

[granite geyser]

Then you just summon them again

[viscid crater]

Outward has individual food spoiling within a stack. I don't want food spoiling in Valheim, but there's an example of it existing

[round lotus]

That's fine, i mostly want it to keep them out of the way when building or farming and having the option to position bow skellies at range instead of them hugging me all the time

Also to stop them from running into my ballista fire when coming back to base

[wanton atlas]

😄

they aren't the brightest ressurected soldiers around

[granite geyser]

I summoned them to fight bonemass' and they stood there next to the altar looking at it while bonemass' kept chasing me.

They only targeted his summons...

I see that now

Also, why does that happen? I read reports of them not working against bonemass during early mistlands days, I thought it was fixed

[merry galleon]

yeah something is bugged with bonemass. Even modded summons (that probably use the skeleton ai idk) don't target bonemass

[hollow elm]

And it kinda forces the player into short, frequent cooking sessions. Makes it way too grindy. (Edit: assuming no storage/refrigeration).

[runic patio]

I've played a few (where I noticed it anyway):

• Ark Survival (Quite annoying, you get used to it, preserving bins, refregirators, preserving salts, throughs and creatures spoil slower too; stacking is done with a simple +1 of the item and spoling removes/transforms 1 item from the stack. Some items don't stack on purpose to limit their preservation, 5k+h)
• <*> Dynasty games (integral part of management of your villages, spoiling is slow, however and grouped in "remain time" batches, I think in "days" - I lost interest in those games before I understood this mechanic properly, 5h)
• Wildmender ("refrigerating sorage", spoiled stacks are "merged" with weighed spoil time (ie: 10 40% stack + 10 50% stack = 20 45% stack) you can thus perpetually increase spoil time with fresher items but with diminishing returns. Furthermore, seeds have three groups which can't be mixed: Spoiled, "Normal" and Fresh, so you can't bring Spoiled back to "Normal", 50h).
• Palworld (Just produce enough to combat spoil; I couldn't bother with the refrigerated storage as the Pals'd just fill any container even when placing it the closest possible to consumable generation, though I think they changed that in a recent patch, but you still lose 1 pal that could be doing other more important stuff, 150h)
• Smalland (Didn't even really notice the spoiling during my play, 15h)
• Sunkenland (alpha stage game, pretty slow decay, does not apply when no one is connected, unsure how stacking applies, a bit like Smalland: didn't notice much impact, 50h)

[silk halo]

bad, bad, bad, bad, bad annnnd bad xD

[pure patio]

What's wrong with the food system?

[round lotus]

If you want to make farming more difficult making it attract mobs or raids seems a better option than food spoiling

[pure patio]

It already does. Enemies attack plants unless they see you or a tamed animal, which they prefer to target

[humble acorn]

I love the food system, could do with less tedium of farming though

[round lotus]

Yes but only if they're already there. What i mean is farming causing more mobs to spawn and specifically go after your crops

Fulings trying to steal your flax and barley, boars coming to nom on your carrots and so on

[hollow elm]

Compelling. That's a pretty good argument, man. Bravo you.

[rose swan]

Hmm guess I disagree, but I respect your stance. I actually find the food system simple and intuitive, while also engaging. I do however think farming could use some tweaking.

#suggestions message

[pure patio]

I mean, it makes sense to me. You start with berries and cooked meat, and as you progress you get better tools. This isn't just Norse history, you're starting naked in the stone age.

Also note: it's a game, and it's a magical afterworld. It needs to be fun and be accessible and balanced, not just "make sense". If food was more trivial than it already is there would be no real survival part of this game, it'd just be combat.

So go play one of the more realistic simulator survival games? Valheim isn't intended to be 100% true to life, like, at all.

You don't even starve or need to drink

No, it's directly responding to your call for more realism. A straw man would be if I made a rebuttal to something you didn't actually say.

[honest glen]

Valheim isn't hardcore survival, to Pita's argument. You get pelts immediately from deer, too, instead of having to cure/tan hides. Seems like it's a mix between survival/arcade, imo. Kinda sounds like you want a different game?

[humble acorn]

I feel like there is a middle ground to all these conversations, not sure why people jump to "Just use mods" or "Play a different game" I swear this is a discussion channel or something

[pure patio]

There's a middle ground to everything. That doesn't mean the middle ground is right.

A lot of these suggestions are made by people that haven't ever actually built or balanced gameplay

Or want to make Valheim into a game that is not in line with the dev's vision, like all the "make it like an MMO!" or "make multiplayer stronger!" suggestions.

[honest glen]

I saw that--I still think it's asking for realism over Valheim's arcade-y approach. 🤷‍♂️

simple doesn't mean bad

[pure patio]

So just turn the resource rates up then? If it's too tedious, there are already options to fix it. The suggestions you made amounted to more realism, though, with the amount of meat from deer, etc.

[silk halo]

i think the general point is that there's scope for improvement

[hollow elm]

Tha' hell? I can't reply to the right comment

[hollow elm]

Hey hey, c'mon. I quite enjoy jumping on top of a Deer and have it explode into skin and meat. 😛

Ok, got it.

[pure patio]

Where did you get the string?

[hollow elm]

If Valheim was a simulator, 95% of players would be dead by day 4.

[humble acorn]

And a lot of the rebuttal is from people that will blindly support exactly what the game is with no expansive scope and would never challenge the devs vision for their game. To be clear, I don't support most suggestions but this statement is insight to how many members could view feedback as a mini attack on the game or something

[wanton edge]

I could see having access to a crude type of fishing before the merchant, a fishing spear maybe could work? But tbh the whole fishing mechanic feels a bit meh to me and I tend to just skip it.

[pure patio]

So add more mechanics to balance vs. the ones that are already there? Getting fish earlier would mean that they'd then have to rebalance the health and stamina of cooked fish, and it would become a whole thing that would throw the balance of other food out of the water

[silk halo]

Weaving the straw from the strawman xD

[wanton edge]

I don't think gardening/farming needs to happen earlier - the first plantable crop is in the black forest where you unlock the cultivator, that's already early and any earlier would eliminate the purely gatherer beginning of the game

[wanton edge]

I mean, fish are already in a weird place where you could get them super early if you find haldor fast, or rather late if it takes you a long time to find him. This would just give some consistency

[honest glen]

Spear fishing would be a nice thing to include. Fishing overall needs a bit of a rework, though

[rose swan]

I think maybe if there were a for for recipes for fish, there could’ve more incentive to it. Maybe?

[amber wind]

I never understood why we couldn't just nab a fish if it swims right up to you.

[rose swan]

Maybe we just need to agree to disagree if people are feeling attacked 🙂

[humble acorn]

I think this was a solid bit of feedback that is worth discussing. In regards to the stuff afterwards, I am fine with the current meadows > black forest flow, I think it introduces players to things at a good pace. The fishing rod being so inconsistent is a bit annoying, I think the merchant can be a bit annoying in the first place as there is no good way to find him. But the reward is good because some of those fish meals later game are really strong

[pure patio]

You can't disassemble them and cook them until you have a cauldron, so they aren't available before they're reasonable

I do think that fishing should be revisited, expanded and made more important. But I don't think it should necessarily be available earlier.

[rose swan]

Maybe a more consistent way to find a fishing pole or the merchant? Like maybe the merchant shouldn’t have a chance of spawning so far away?

[wanton edge]

So putting in a non-merchant fishing means shouldn't causs trouble

[humble acorn]

This is something that I have seen in the community since release, how do you stop the average fan from being so passionate about a game. It's both beautiful and annoying

[pure patio]

It also won't provide benefit, which is a no-no in game design. At least until you get to the level where you can process it, maybe make it craftable with black forest level tech.

[rose swan]

Could make raw fish edible, obviously it would give a smaller buff than cooked fish.

[wanton edge]

Not true, because again the merchant can be so inconsistent. It would mean you can fish in the black forest every time, instead of often waiting till cooked fish is useless before you have the opportunity

[pure patio]

No, I mean you can't process it without a cauldron. I can see making fishing available before or instead of finding Haldor, I don't think it will add anything to the earlier game other than balance issues.

[runic patio]

Hey, I was just exposing what I've seen in other games.

The comment was just to expose the idea of using spoilage to "make harder farming" which I think is the typical thing survival games do for this.

My point of view has always been I don't want it in Valheim, at least not by default.

[wanton edge]

I believe we've successfully swung the conversation to actually discussing things 👍
While discussing how we discuss things can be valuable, might be good to ride the suggestion discussion momntum atm

[amber wind]

Unless adding more is what fixes the current. 😉

[silk halo]

well,

[wanton edge]

I wasn't saying anything about changing the cauldron requirement, just giving an early non-merchant option which for most people will translate to fishing earlier because they don't have to wait for the merchant.
The fishing pole could be an upgrade or something, make it more efficient

[silk halo]

the devs added a findable fishing rod in frost caves, in the vain hope every player would explore them on every run (which sadly didn't bear out, as predicted) so that players who missed Haldor could have another chance of getting the rod, but this is next to useless for the above reason and the fact that they are rare rooms that they spawn in, and by mountains fishing isn't a top prio anyway, my suggestion, would be to move them to a semi rare room in black forest crypts

[pure patio]

If anything I'd anticipate that coming after the Deep North is finished

[wanton edge]

Yeah, I could see something like, or even little pointers or bits of map or any of the other suggestions on making finding the merchant a little less random

[pure patio]

I think they just added that as flavor, not as a replacement for Haldor. He's got 10 places he can spawn on every world, and even if I've found him late I've found him on every world I've played on.

[silk halo]

it's quite easy on some maps to get into mountains before you see Haldor

[pure patio]

That's also why fish is nice, but it's a side-grade to everything else you can make, an option rather than an actual step improvement.

[wanton edge]

We aren't talking about when, just possible changes to the food system.
I could see it being part of the ocean update for sure though

[knotty sage]

Am I allowed to just pop in the suggestion or should I wait until you guys are done?

[wanton edge]

Yeah, that's why I just ignore fishing 😅

[amber wind]

Go for it.

[runic patio]

I never used fishing and yet I cooked plenty of them that just swam too close to ground (or right into my boat a few times) lol.

[pure patio]

In general Valheim is really trying to avoid a Chekov's Gun type situation. Nothing that is useless or out of place in gameplay, or superfluous. Trophies are about as close as that gets.

[runic patio]

Well there a sill quite a few decorative building items

[knotty sage]

More build shapes and sizes. That's it. Especially for roof and floors. It feels like you can only make good rectangular buildings in this game. Having a triangular shape alone can improve the buildings.

[runic patio]

You can overlap tiles quite easily to make rounder shapes.

[knotty sage]

It doesn't always look good overlapped, like stone floors for example.

[wanton edge]

I'm always building round and then remembering how much more complicated it can get 😅

[knotty sage]

Things clipping each other, it just looks like an ugly mess.

[runic patio]

I'm not certain triangles would help all that much tho, it'll just be a "smaller tedious mess" :/

[amber wind]

Hmm...I feel that variety makes things interesting. Reducing everything to a single pathways makes the game extremely boring and predictable. Sometimes having multiple redundant pathways can add to the game. Maybe during the development of the core game, this makes sense, but eventually it would be nice to have a bit more complexity.

[knotty sage]

It still would be an improvement.

[runic patio]

I guess You'd get hexagons or octogons though

[knotty sage]

Still, much better than having messy floors.

[pure patio]

Ish. There's a variety of foods, but they each fill the same niche for the given progression level. Couple stamina foods, couple health foods, sometimes a balanced one, you mix them as you eat them for the stats you want. Having too many options can be as bad as too few.

[runic patio]

The game needs a limited amount of food options otherwise the 3-combo option wouldn't be a game mechanic

[knotty sage]

I don't see how having more shapes affect the entity count much.

Other than a bit more extra walls I suppose.

[wanton edge]

Triangles give you octogons, kinda, but the problem is the hypotenuse is longer than the legs, so like a 2 meter wall or roof is too short to cover the hypotenuse of a triangle piece, and so you wind up with a different kind of mess

There are triangle black marble pieces, if you play around with those you'll see what I mean. Cool to have but not the game changer they sound like they would be

[runic patio]

It depends if they give you isolesces equilateral triangles (60deg) in games or 45deg

[pure patio]

I would mostly love to have a 45 degree horizontal angle roof corner. That would make a lot of the more circular builds much easier to put roofing over, instead of all roof corners being 90 degrees.

[amber wind]

Can you make triangles now by just rotating the square 45 degrees?

[wanton edge]

I mean, if it was all equilateral triangles it would not play well with the square pieces I don't think

[runic patio]

Rust/Ark uses those, it works out

[wanton edge]

Ish, but again for a proper right triangle the hypotenuse is longer so you usually need to get another piece to extend it a bit - it works but definitely relies on lots of clipping

[amber wind]

So you kind of need the equilaterals to make it work right?

[knotty sage]

Clipping is my main problem with this game.

[amber wind]

Clipping is a feature isn't it?

[wanton edge]

Yeah, to make the everything stick to the 2 meter compatibility

[runic patio]

it's a mental gymnastic to get what you want from squares/equilaterals, but you eventually grow used to it

Depending on clipping you can get better shapes. Ark Ascended refuses most clipping so it's harder to get rounded shapes than Ark Evolved.

[wanton edge]

@pure drift what would you do to make hunting more fun?

[knotty sage]

Triangular shapes can't stick to 2 meter compatibility?

[wanton edge]

If they are right triangles they can't, but equilateral triangles could

[knotty sage]

Well that sucks.

[runic patio]

Lol, I was trying to get ChatGPT to render "three squares attached on each side of a triangle in ASCII" and I can't get it to do anything but this:

       +---+
      /     \
     /   +   \
    /--+---+--\
   /   |   |   \
  /    |   |    \
 +-----+---+-----+```

[knotty sage]

Guess I'll just stick to rectangular shapes then.

It could've been good.

[pure patio]

Yeah, you can do somewhat rounded and odd shapes, but you need to just deal with some overlapping and such in that case

[runic patio]

Well, here's my ASCII difference:

      _____
     |     |             /\      /\
     |     |            /  \    /  \
     |     |           /    \  /    \
 ____|_____|____      /      \/      \
|    |\    |    |     \      /\      /
|    | \   |    |  VS  \    /  \    /
|    |   \ |    |       \  /    \  /
|____|____\|____|        \/______\/
     |     |              |      |
     |     |              |      |
     |     |              |      |
     |_____|              |______|```

[amber wind]

Conan Exiles builds with triangle shaped pieces. You can probably google some images as examples.

A lot of those builds can still be achieved the same in Valheim, but there will be a lot of pieces clipped into each other.

[knotty sage]

At least the floors could be triangular.

My main issue is the floors for the most part.

[hollow elm]

It would be slower to build, but I feel like the solution is to make floors 'planks' rather than 'tiles'. Each of the current 2x2 'tiles' has four planks... if we could build with 'planks' it would be much free-er.

[wanton edge]

Oof, so many more instances though

[runic patio]

Yeah more tiles would cause more lag than more types of tiles.

[granite geyser]

More instances and many more snap points.

Performance would hate that one simple trick

[amber wind]

A plank is pretty much the same thing as a tile, just smaller.

However, I don't think a triangle piece would have more snap points than a square, since it has less vertices?

[runic patio]

I'm pretty sure what he means is that each plank is an "instance" and so will take memory; and the snap points he's talking about are the ones "linking to the snapped object" which needs to be checked, if destroyed, to know if it also gets destroyed, with smaller components, that means more checks.

To be fair, though, this is a really simple thing that's been super-optimized since Doom :p

[amber wind]

Yeah, I agree. More planks = more snap points...but the amount of snap points per object should be the same.

[runic patio]

There is only one "used" per object in the way this could have impact in the game.

[amber wind]

Counterpoint, think of the floor tiles as 2 planks or 4 planks in one plank.

[runic patio]

that doesn't matter, what matters is the number of "objects" (and in this case, objects snapped on another object)

[amber wind]

We are saying the same thing.

[runic patio]

lol, probable

[amber wind]

Interesting, so if you go to place an object and you don't snap it to anything, does that increase performance?

Like if you had a scene with a lot of objects all snapped together vs a scene with the same amount of objects without anything snapped together, would you see a boost in performance?

[wanton edge]

The way smiffe has talked about it, I don't think only used snap points matter - he's talked like adding more snap points to build pieces will cause more lag period, regardless of how many you use in a build. But I'm no expert

[pure patio]

He has, because from my understanding is that when checking stability it needs to go through every snap point on a piece to check for connections basically, so the more snap points per piece the more checks per piece, and the slower it goes.

[humble acorn]

Yeah you can see the process of snap point checking happening in real time when you stack up pillars or walls in a certain way and you see colour of the placed piece go from green to red

[humble acorn]

Pretty sure the game doesn’t remove snap points from the prefabs or even merge them. Not even sure if it’s a worth while optimization but maybe

[granite geyser]

@analog moss what's the point of adding a piece for something you can very perfectly build yourself?

It's like asking for scaffolding, or a sun clock

[analog moss]

I like the idea of a compact iron tube. I'm not talking about grating or making a stone chimney.

especially with a little pointy hat on top.

[hot willow]

@loud sapphire agrreeed. Especially considering you can do that with wisp torches anyway

[round lotus]

True, bit wisp torches also dont prevent spawns. Not that thats a huge issue

[amber wind]

Do the standing torches prevent spawns?

[round lotus]

All but wisp torches, yes

[amber wind]

Why?

And why not wisp torches?

Torches are kind of nice as waypoint markers. Having to put down a workstation and then the torches is kind of a hassle. I'd be okay with a different kind of torch that doesn't prevent spawns, but also doesn't require a workstation to build.

[wanton edge]

Enemies aggro on regular torches too - I don't think they do on wisp torches? 🤔

[amber wind]

I wonder why they don't aggro on wisp torches?

[wanton edge]

I definitely agree simple wood torches should be placeable without a work bench

[granite geyser]

Because they used to before and relying on them to traverse the biome while not having the wisplight just to find that they were destroyed was apparently very annoying

[wanton edge]

I think your wisp light paths /markers get destroyed way too fast otherwise. Kinda renders them useless if enemies aggro on them

[pure patio]

Isn't that just a campfire?

[granite geyser]

Now you can put them wherever you need to go through occasionally, essentially making wisplight a short term solution

[amber wind]

I think that's the exact argument people could make about regular torches...heh heh.

The torch is a bit more visible than the campfire, and uses less resources to build.

But I'd be okay with both not needing the workstation.

[granite geyser]

Mist from mistlands is nowhere close and dangerous as darkness from meadows

[pure patio]

they did initially, but it was too much in the mistlands when they're used to clear mist. There's no reason for the enemies to really aggro them. The tradeoff for them being constructable without a workbench is that they don't prevent spawns.

[hot willow]

If preventing spawns is an issue... Campfires do the same thing don't they? Without requiring a workbench

[wanton edge]

Also feels weird to be slapping fires around for markers 🤔 Could try it though.

[amber wind]

Yeah, the issue is I want to put up torches as waypoints, but have to build a workstation to do it. I'd be okay with the torches not preventing spawns if it means I don't need to drop a workstation everytime I want to build one.

[wanton edge]

I do feel like signs, wood torches, and maybe like 2m wood poles shouldn't use workbenches. Make it simple to put up travel markers. I don't see it changing balance? Is there some weird cheese option I'm not seeing?

[amber wind]

I think signs can be placed without them already, but the other two require the workstation.

[granite geyser]

Signs don't need work benches

You can even build them inside dungeons

[wanton edge]

Also I would 100% trade spawn suppression for not aggroing enemies for wood torches

Huh, I guess I'm always building the sign on a pole or something so I never noticed

[amber wind]

Nah, I want the enemies to destroy them...but I would argue I'd want the mistland torches to be destroyed too. Just look at ways to slow the process, maybe make it only 1 enemy, and have them be super bad at doing it so it woul take them a while.

Force the player to come up with strategies to protect the wisp lights from being destroyed.

[round lotus]

I put mine up on rocks and ledges anyway since they can still get destroyed by accident otherwise

[wanton edge]

I mean, there isn't one though? Mobs will just smack through walls, not to mention the light doesn't pass through walls. Elevation can help with some mobs (not all!) but its not very exciting to build a pole to then put the wisp light on, and unless poles were made workbench-free defeats the idea of using wisp lights as an on the go marker.

[round lotus]

Though you can also overlap torches with stone blocks or wood beams to stop mobs attacking them

[wanton edge]

I default to that but they can still fairly easily get destroyed if mobs aggro on them

[round lotus]

True

[wanton edge]

That feels more exploity than a compelling challenge to overcome / strategy to employ

[round lotus]

It also requires a workbench, defeating the point

[amber wind]

Naw, I'm okay with that requiring the workbench. And if you surround them with poles or stone walls, the mob has to destroy those objects first before they get to the torch...all good. But if I just want to slap down a naked unprotected torch, let me do it without the workbench.

[runic patio]

That doesn't make any sense since you can snap any number of objects onto another object in any location onbthat object. Yuu're only limited in that you need to use a snap point to attach to another object. This means that unless they coded things in a real aweful way, all the object needs to know is what other objets are snapped to it.

... Unlless there two behaviours: "both objects anapped" where they are properly snapped and "single objets snap" which would act like mentioned above and I didn't notice different behaviour.

I'll test that enventually so I don't talk out of line.

[amber wind]

I didn't mean to make this into a thing. I was just curious to know when I'm building, if I snap two objects together, then hold shift and adjust one object slightly off from the snapping point if it would increase performance (if done repeatedly over 100s or 1000s of building objects). My guess is probably not.

Plus that is a lot of work...so....

[pure patio]

That's a good question. It's entirely possible that if there's no snap-point link then it will fall back to a full geometry analysis of intersections, which would make it even slower on shift-placed parts. But that's just my intuition as a programmer, I am not an expert on this specific game's internals like that 😉

[lofty wave]

You don’t have to eat again at half, I usually wait until there’s 5-3 minutes left.

Suddenly losing all your max hp/stamina would be way worse

[amber wind]

What is the fade at now? 50% at halfway? 25% at 3/4 of the time expired?

[lofty wave]

It’s not linear, the stats stay quite high until theres a few minutes left

[amber wind]

Sometimes it does feel like the drop is pretty significant when everything drops off and then I have to eat food and wait for it to tick back up from 25 HP.

I'd almost like to see it be more gradual...with the shaking intensifying as it gets closer and closer to completely dropping off. Usually the thing that I notice is "You could eat something." flashes on the screen, and by then it's too late.

[pure patio]

That sounds super boring, NGL, and not in the theme or gameplay patterns that Valheim has already laid out. They've opted for simplicity over complexity in almost every gameplay decision, and it's a lot of the reason many people like this game over so many others that do go into that kind of minutiae.

[lofty wave]

You dont need the tiny amount of stats you lose between full and half time with food.

[amber wind]

Do you know how tiny or large the drop off is?

[pure patio]

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Food#Effect_decay

The food system is tedious, but you are saying we should make it more complicated and tedious to make food as a fix for that?

[lofty wave]

Thats real life, not valheim.

[amber wind]

At 75% time remaining (TR), it drops 8%. At 50% TR, it drops 19%, at 25% TR, it drops 33%, and at 10% TR it drops to 50%. That's not so bad. If you removed the first one at 75% TR, would you be happy Exo?

That's kind of true in all games, isn't it?

[lofty wave]

Many ingredients in this game walk straight towards you (entrails, wolf meat etc)

[amber wind]

Or, food is treated more like instant potions that restore health...

[pure patio]

So let's go all the way in, have a simulation of dressing game instead of them just dropping resources, lean all the way in. Make it a full simulation so it's not boring, you need to make perfect cuts on the animal to get full resources from it. Then we can make a weaving minigame that you need to make sure the grass is strung in the right pattern in order to make a working fishing line that won't break.

[amber wind]

I kind of like that it is light enough that you don't need to eat food to stay alive, but it kind of nerfs you so that your survivability isn't that great, so you have to at least maintain eating foods...and thus consistently gather mats to make it.

What makes RDR2's food interesting?

Hmm...what about the recipes make them interesting?

So, a lot more complexity and nuance?

Situational recipes for situational buffs?

[lofty wave]

Many food recipies in valheim use items from earlier biomes, like eyescream using greydwarf eyes and misthare supreme using carrots

[pure patio]

I think that's missing a lot of the intentional simplicity of Valheim. Like, they could have done all that just like so many other games do, but they explicitly didn't. It seems like every game nowdays wants you to dedicate a master's thesis to their mechanics instead of just playing the game.

Just like so many games make you go get resources to repair your tools and weapons, Valheim doesn't.

[amber wind]

It's a balance between making it too simple vs too complex, in my opinion. I like variety...but I agree too much redundancy just muddles things...but making things too simplistic and straightforward seems like a missed opportunity as well. And at the moment, with my playthrough, it does seem like Valheim could use just a bit more variety.

Why is hunting in RDR2 better than Valheim?

Maybe less mobs that take more hits to kill that then reward you with more cooking mats?

[lofty wave]

So, starred animals?

[amber wind]

MIght make it more worth taming animals too if it is harder to find them in the wild.

[lofty wave]

I’m saying starred animals already do this. They’re rare, stronger and more rewarding.

[amber wind]

But hardly needed when you have non-starred animals every 10 feet...

[lofty wave]

They’re early game animals, they’re supposed to be easy to kill.

[amber wind]

Want a boar? Shoot an arrow anywhere into the trees in Meadows/Forest and you'll have a couple boars charging into you. It gets really annoying. I'd really love to see the boars run away from you...and only attack if you get close instead of constantly following and charging you. ANd then make deer ultra rare.

So when they do their bark it's a rare occurance instead of every few seconds.

[lofty wave]

You need to get so much leather and deer hide to progress in meadows (and smaller amounts throughout the game), nothing should be too difficult or RNG dependent, especially for new players

[amber wind]

I think that's a matter of opinion...certain things maybe SHOULD be really difficult. Rarity in a game makes something valuable...making it really common reduces it's value.

How hard is it to kill boar on the harder combat difficulties?

Like can a boar still skewer you if you are wearing deerhide or troll armor? Or does their damage get significantly nerfed to basically nothing still?

Yeah, and they respawn all the time.

[amber wind]

Imagine if there were 50% less deer in the world, but when you killed one, you got 2x more meat and hides from them (probably the same single trophy since they only have 1 head). The amount of materials gathered would stay roughly the same, but the effort to get them would be more challenging. I think this could improve the game.

[lofty wave]

The challenge would be the same, wandering around meadows until you find a deer, only more RNG dependent now because the deer are rarer.

A skill to improve animal spawns?

[amber wind]

In the beginning, when you can't kill them with a single hit, there is a bit of needing to sneek, track, and follow. But it quickly becomes easy when you can kill them with a single hit.

I'm okay with making it more RNG dependent. Maybe you could go TOO far, but I think it could be adjusted to make it more exciting and less ubiquitous like it currently is.

I can't ever see farming as anything but a chore, tbh. If you plant multiple plants, I feel like people will just want to be able to plant even more than what's currently allowed. But maybe this is my own preference.

[amber wind]

Hmm...there are plants that grow from seed into a harvestable plant and then if you let them grow longer, they produce seeds and then die off. I feel like with Valheim, they provide the courtesy of pausing the growth at the harvestable stage, but unfortunately this causes them to have to be harvested and replanted to finish the cycle. Do you think it would be better if they grew into a harvestable stage but if you didn't harvest them, they would then grow into the seed stage again, so you would have to make sure to harvest them in time?

Perhaps another option would be if you plant something, it grows, and then starts to spread producing more plants the longer you let it grow. Then you only need to plant once, and as long as you don't harvest it all at once, you can just harvest a small portion and then continue to let it grow and fill in the empty spots again.

[earnest sinew]

i think we should be able to carry a trophy as an accessory that prevents aggression from the mob for whom we're carrying the trophy. wolves attacking me when I wear their skin just out of fashion sense seems ridiculous, but i suppose they're not the most intelligent creatures
if i saw someone or something wearing human skin i'd activate my eikthyr power IRL

[amber wind]

Have the boar attack, and then have it run away in fright. It doesn't make sense to me that it would keep attacking you, unless you keep chasing after it. Same with necks. They attack you once, then run away, but if you aren't in close proximity then they go back to normal. To have them keep chasing you seems...silly.

[granite geyser]

@sly holly I assume that's a way for a player to push it if pulling stops being an option?

Although I'm assuming a single player trying to push it with heavy weight might just make the physics funky

[wanton edge]

Its definitely a curtesy and kindness that the growth pauses - getting rid of it would be miserable for multiplayer, and forces you to baby sit your crops

@pure drift what makes hunting so much fun in RDR2? Break it down for us so we can see what might make sense in Valheim

[eternal storm]

Since Valheim seems to be loosely based on real life in medieval times, farming, foraging and hunting could be made more interesting by implementing the most typical challenges people had in those times, but that would require additional systems like seasons, weather having effects on vegetation and fauna, different kind of soils, different techniques with different pros and cons, and so on.

As much as I'd like that, it would require a huge work for something that isn't really the focus of the game. Right now the availability of food is more than sufficient for what it's needed for, the only issue is that getting food it's not that fun.

I don't suggest any changes because I feel that the food/health system does its job as is: it genuinely feels challenging when you're a noob because time is precious when you start; then it's just 5 minutes of your time in your cozy spawn-proofed base before you go doing more advanced stuff. It's not ideal, but it's ok and it's very easy to break by making it more complex so maybe it's wouldn't be worth it.

[subtle rivet]

@arctic wharf How on earth did you find a similar previous suggestion?? I tried all the search terms

[arctic wharf]

I have been here for years... even before the incident with the whole server wipe. It's been suggested a few times. Lightning is a common attribute in general, and even I have made suggestions in the past that are similar.

unfortunetly... a lot or the servers history is gone so

the Fck... I mean yes neither crops or lightning attribute related suggestions are new, and even the combination isn't exactly new either.
But that doesn't mean I am against new crops coming from the remaining two biomes. It's part of the game 🤣
we got mushrooms and such in mistlands

[subtle rivet]

Re. troll: Irrelevant. You’re posting multiple suggestions without checking whether any of them have already been suggested/discussed, and seem to be responding to my single suggestion more as a butthurt reaction than any sort of genuine opinion. New crops are added for each biome and there are two major biomes left, hence the “late-game” qualifier in front, which was very clear since the suggestion was short.
tl,dr: You’ve quickly given me every reason to not value your input, and it is you who is being hostile.

[amber wind]

I didn't do anything!

[subtle rivet]

Ah, right the server wipe. Forgot about that, crap.

[arctic wharf]

yeee, it was unfortunate. I am more neutral for such an addition of course. It would be just fine, but so would just about any other crop they could imagine. I do agree it would not hurt to some more lightning baes additions though. 👍

[amber wind]

What's wrong with more crops? I think if it adds to the game, why not?

[arctic wharf]

... they are suggesting this for future additions, so I would assume they would hope for it from a future biome. I don't think it takes away from anything if it fits with the devs overall vision for the biomes and decide to add something similar.
Think about it more as sharing an idea for a future, not necessarily demanding them to stop producing whatever they are making right now just to add it.

[subtle rivet]

Oh well… Full disclosure I had a great backstory ready to share on how I ended up visualizing it, including a cool little zapping animation around the plants and them having to be planted in the swamp to prevent them from exploding when they grow past a certain stage

I mean I can’t help it if it’s already been hashed out, but I wanted to put it out there just in case 😔

[arctic wharf]

it's fun to think up unique mechanics like that 🙂
Would be pretty suprised if the devs ever implemented anything from the suggestions 1 to 1 however haha

[finite vapor]

Too much hostility in here
U have a beautiful cat sungbeanie
Ok continue

[arctic wharf]

I mean, you came off pretty eggressive in this chat haha.
But I will say they shouldn't be trying to argue in DM's either 🤭

[subtle rivet]

Re. troll: No one angrily messaged you. That’s all you, you’re trying to sustain a fight that shouldn’t exist.

[lime cedar]

Lolol

[subtle rivet]

Wait, whose DMs?!?!

[arctic wharf]

well... perhaps time to drop the topic and move on 🤷‍♂️

[finite vapor]

Dms is better place to argue than in public space 🙂 if it doesn't work out then block away and move on

[lime cedar]

Lolool *

[subtle rivet]

Must be someone else then… never mind, I guess. I don’t DM people I’ve just met here

[arctic wharf]

neither would I without asking haha
but that seems natural

[subtle rivet]

Don’t refer to me by name if you don’t want to be dubbed the troll.

[lime cedar]

Bruh you guys taking anonymous online chat too seriously lol

[arctic wharf]

fo sho

[subtle rivet]

🤷🏻‍♀️

[lime cedar]

All in your feelings from a random anonymous user online lol

[subtle rivet]

It’s a fine line ya

[lime cedar]

Anyways, what do you think about adding rowers for co op to make ships go faster against the wind?

[arctic wharf]

🤣

[finite vapor]

You'll be the 6739th to suggest it

[arctic wharf]

I was on the "am for it" boat....

[amber wind]

I'm totally against rowers...I want columners.

[subtle rivet]

Unfortunately that one’s been stomped to death many times over 😔 I’d love it too

[finite vapor]

Yea I feel the same with a way to expand inventory late game

[arctic wharf]

honestly, it's on the small list of super easy W's that they could always do if they wanted to... but they are sticking to their guns on their decision, which is perfectly fine but we are still plenty free to disagree 🤷‍♂️

[amber wind]

Do you tach upwind when you sail? Or do you pretty much just use the rowing mechanic to move towards the deadzone?

[arctic wharf]

wind changes too often to tach really

[lime cedar]

Just use moder

[arctic wharf]

the real meta 😎

[amber wind]

I mean...you tach when you head into the wind...doesn't really matter if the wind changes...if it starts flowing in the direction you want, then you don't need to.

There is a simple solution to all of this...devcommands.

[arctic wharf]

I just find I waste time even trying 🤭 better to slightly alter my course for a bit and wait for winds to change. trying to swival back and forth wastes more time than it's worth with the loss of momentum

[subtle rivet]

I so rarely get a proper tailwind that I feel like I’m always tacking like crazy

[arctic wharf]

there is always dev commends haha

[amber wind]

Why sail when you can fly?

[subtle rivet]

Right?

[amber wind]

Why mine when you can spawn ore? Why plant crops when you can just spawn crop?

[subtle rivet]

Or eat nothing but top stamina foods and swim all the way across the ocean with 3000kg in your bag

[amber wind]

Why even carry it, just spawn it where you want it?

[lime cedar]

Can Xbox use console commands?

[amber wind]

RB + LB + RT + LT + menu button

According to the google.

And the internet NEVER lies.

[subtle rivet]

I’d recommend only using dev commands in the most extreme insurmountable game-stopping emergencies though… can be a real game-wrecker otherwise

[amber wind]

It always amuses me how many people feel the need to jump in this channel and tell people how much they hate their suggestion.

Isn't that what the thumbsdown vote is for?

[finite vapor]

Hey that's rianus purpose

[subtle rivet]

@arctic wharf Sorry, I had to repost the suggestion once more to detox it… I can hit the recycle button myself this time 😅 I left out the details in the suggestion itself just to keep it straightforward

[arctic wharf]

why the repost haha

ah 🤭 no worries

[subtle rivet]

Ah there you go, thanks heheh

[arctic wharf]

only reason I still vote is becuase I have this thing going where I vote on every single suggestion.... ever

was a sad day when the server wiped 🤣

[subtle rivet]

I do remember that 😉

[amber wind]

How do you vote when you don't really have a strong stance one way or the other?

[subtle rivet]

#suggestions message

I left out the details for this one because I personally am never impressed by long and overly complex suggestions, but the background on it is that I’ve been pretty painfully sick for the past few days and haven’t had much sleep aside from barely drowsy fever dreams. Most of the dreams involved the last stuff I was doing in Valheim, and I was so fed up with the anxiety over not being able to sleep that I just started looking at it positively… which is when all sorts of cool farming content popped up and overlapping, and I noticed some cabbage-like plants that had little blue lightning arcs zapping around them as they grew. I was also somehow growing them in the swamp, and I realized later that they would of course need their own special biome to grow — maybe not the swamp, necessarily, if we’re thinking of actual physics, but I instantly imagined how fun it would be to find out that they’re unstable and can mini-explode if they’re not planted in the right place… kind of like the way the eitr refinery has to be managed to prevent damage. It would also be pretty funny and totally in character if they left a grayish-black mark and a piece of coal after popping.

Weed is still illegal where I live, so I have to take the brief opportunity to get stuff from an otherwise unwelcome trip 🤷🏻‍♀️

[earnest sinew]

how do we contact mods?

[finite vapor]

I don't see anything wrong with posting an idea about lightning plants?? Why are you criticizing their suggestion in suggestions channel then abusing them in a public space

[subtle rivet]

Already done. It’s “modmail” in the user list

[earnest sinew]

Okay, just making sure, this little greydwarf has very obviously violated the rules in two separate channels multiple times now

[finite vapor]

Yea whether or not it's true you're putting a spotlight on yourself in the mods eyes

[subtle rivet]

Yeah… It suddenly turned into a pretty clear do-not-engage situation, so now we just wait and ignore I guess

[subtle rivet]

Don’t worry about it, mods will handle it. I’m already checked out 😌

[finite vapor]

Also sorry to hear you aren't getting much sleep, being sick really sucks. I spent 3/4 of my last vacation sick in bed zzzz

[outer crown]

Dm to @kindred birch

[earnest sinew]

I tried but I keep getting "the message could not be delivered"

[subtle rivet]

It’s somehow always on the days off 😖

[subtle rivet]

No worries, mine went through.

Forgot the ✅ thing at first 😅

[outer crown]

Did you just send text msg or did you try to put something like ! or = infront of it?

[earnest sinew]

I like it fwiw, as long as it has a pretty seed-plant version! Turnips and carrots are okay but I absolutely love the onion flowers

[earnest sinew]

just text, then i tried =help, neither worked

[finite vapor]

Imagine if they're luminescent like thistle or something 🤩

Will Never say no to more glowy plants

[subtle rivet]

Right!! The flowers are a massively important part of the game for me. I guess I don’t know how that would work if they were cabbage-like plants like I was thinking… but another form could be great too

[subtle rivet]

Exactly!!! 🤩 And we do need a nice glowy plantable something

I’d love to have more alternate base lighting options in vanilla, and plants are just cool

[amber wind]

I was thinking something kind of crazy like they grow lightning crystals that you can harvest and throw like bombs, but when you go to harvest them, they have a chance of exploding...maybe giving you a few seconds of notice to get out of the area or take damage.

[earnest sinew]

kinda wish the obliterator gave you some notice, i took damage the first time i used it lol

[subtle rivet]

Yeah, that sort of mini risk factor would line up perfectly with the later biome stuff

[finite vapor]

Agree, the building system is great already but decorating environment with flowers and seeds takes your builds so much further. I still dream for plantable bushes/shrubs to make gardens stand out so much more. (I spammed the heck out of flowers and bushes in my latest big build #building-screenshots message )

[amber wind]

I also like the idea that during lightning storms, they have a chance to attract a lightning bolt to make something better? Or maybe that's what's needed to make them harvestable?

[subtle rivet]

Um. Whoa. 😳

[subtle rivet]

Local lightning strikes!! Yes, that’s what we’re all waiting for in this game. There just needs to be a good excuse 😎

[finite vapor]

Would be cool and consistent enough but you have to be present in the biome for weather to take effect

[amber wind]

Crazy ideas, but could be fun. 🙃

[finite vapor]

Storm only once every 5 days or something

[earnest sinew]

just don't take them on boats... heavy storm, massive waves, a serpent, and thor decides he doesn't like the cut of your jib all at the same time?

[abstract cobalt]

Folks, just a general reminder: everybody has a right to their own opinions. We actively discourage folks calling out other users for whichever reaction they pick in any #suggestions post, and any combative/trolling suggestion will be removed.

[amber wind]

Kapow! 🌩️

[abstract cobalt]

And any kind of directed harrasment through this server is not okay; if y'all need to report this behavior, @kindred birch is the safest bet to communicate with the mod team.

No need to pile on or start an argument, just report and move on.

[subtle rivet]

Right in line with a giant clunky magical gunk processor that grinds up really really old brains while shooting out random effect damage sparks ❤️

[amber wind]

There was a game on the Apple II called Bouncing Kumungas, where if you stood still in the same place for a very long time, a bolt of lightning would hit and kill you. I think this could be a fun thing in the DN maybe? If you just stand out in the open during a perpetual storm...maybe you need a special item to ground you and negate the damage.

[earnest sinew]

if you stand out in the open during a perpetual storm, i reckon either a random greydwarf or "shaking ground" will get you first

[amber wind]

Yeah, I meant that it only happens in the deep north biome.

[earnest sinew]

my reading comprehension lol, apologies

[amber wind]

Like if the DN was constantly in a blizzard with whiteout conditions severely limiting visibility and lightning.

[subtle rivet]

Somehow I think a lot of other things could get you first in the Deep North 😳

[earnest sinew]

yeah survivability onion makes me the most scared of anything limiting player vision, 'cause computers see different to us

[subtle rivet]

I genuinely do not mean to make fun of you for an unintended auto-correct, but what is the “survivability onion” part? 😅

(I can’t help but love the phrase now that I’ve seen it)

[subtle rivet]

I have to wonder if that might be on the list of things to not lean into for upcoming content since the game is designed to run on a certain hardware standard that’s more accessible for people without heavy-duty systems, and the mountain biome is already pushing the limits with the snowstorms

[earnest sinew]

it's something used in the military mostly to describe how to survive hostile intent or attacks, and is used to inform design decisions surrounding weapons platforms like aircraft and tanks
basically, it boils down to a list of things you dont want to be if you want to survive, if the top layer or first item on the list is broken, or false, you go the next one
There - don't be in the place where teh hostile thing is
Seen - don't be seen by the hostile thing
the list goes on and down, but mainly here i mean that if you can't see an enemy, their ability to survive you becomes much better, and given that computers/enemy AI sees us very differently, wherein so long as we're in their "visibility range" we are instantly and 100% seen, ~~their ability to kill us/~~our ability to survive them, drastically decreases

[finite vapor]

Yea I got like 7 fps in blizzards before I upgraded CPU it was horrible

[subtle rivet]

Wow, it was a real phrase?!?! I could not have imagined 😅 Thanks for clarifying that

[subtle rivet]

Same. I relied heavily on well-managed portal use so I could get home when one started and wait them out or do something else

Shooting drakes was out of the question

[earnest sinew]

My PC manages blizzards just about but i do not like them, i lose all my frames in the snow and then have to go out and find them again

[finite vapor]

I think some patches ago they improved blizzards and made them more bearable, and then I spent a bunch on top end PC gear so I wouldn't have these problems anymore. I think it's also because I ran obs to record stuff while in a blizzard that literally killed my fps

But yes it's rough when normal biomes = 60fps but blizzard dropped it to like 7

Oh no!

[subtle rivet]

Ouch, yeah recording will take a huge chunk. I was on 4 threads and internal graphics initially haha
So glad those days are over.

There are still lots of possibilities for weather in the Deep North apart from snow though. Like… hail storms?!?!?!

[earnest sinew]

yeah, and the piece of gear you have to craft to survive the environment is a hardhat

[subtle rivet]

Or wear a blackmetal shield on your head

[earnest sinew]

"blackmetal umbrella"

[subtle rivet]

That is so metal.

[finite vapor]

Hopefully they do something like jotun / frost giants it would be very fitting

Could even summon a blizzard around them

[subtle rivet]

I’d guess they would be like the Dvergr if they do… friendly in general but if you piss them off you’re DONE

[finite vapor]

Probably more like trolls tbh

[subtle rivet]

“I didn’t know that snow leopard was your friend…. really, I didn’t knoooooooow…!!!”

[finite vapor]

Speaking of which, yes we need cute fluffy animals there too
Snow leopards 😍

[subtle rivet]

I am among the pile of people who suggested it again 😔 now we can only wait and hope

[finite vapor]

Yes I up vote every cat suggestion I see, vikings loved cats 😤

Wolves could possibly persist throughout deep north tbh since they exist in low altitude mountains but maybe different type or much higher chances of being starred idk

[subtle rivet]

I can totally understand if they don’t though. It would be very difficult to properly design a cat model to move in a way that even nearly satisfies all of us cat lovers.

[subtle rivet]

I bet they’d be much bigger and jump out on you from hiding instead of grunting and running up

[finite vapor]

They are pretty sneaky already but damn that'll be fun

[earnest sinew]

i REALLY would absolutely die for snow leopards in the game. especially giant rideable ones like in the Icemark trilogy. unfortunately, snow leopard ranges don't extent outside of asia

[subtle rivet]

I mean, lurking and pouncing does seem more like a feline thing, but I’m sure they’ll figure something out that works

[subtle rivet]

Fortunately though, Viking ranges do.

[finite vapor]

We can hope 🙏

[earnest sinew]

oh yeah lol

[knotty sage]

This is probably redundant but I thought it would be cool if we could place shields on the longship. Just a thought.

[short wing]

Been suggested time and time again.

[knotty sage]

Nvm then.

[short wing]

I think this is the last one: #suggestions message

[silk halo]

rarely xD

[short wing]

Rock, paper, scissors, lizard, Spock.

[humble acorn]

#suggestions message

Is this a suggestion to keep music on during fights when it's off or when the continuous part specifically is off

[granite geyser]

Keep boss music on specifically while the setting is off

[humble acorn]

An alternative to this could be having the ambience be juicier during boss fights. But that's probably harder as it would require content work.

[granite geyser]

In what way?

[humble acorn]

If bosses had more VO and had more presence with sfx and ambience you could fill out a lot of the space. But I think it would be always weird to have 20s between the 1min sountrack loop

[granite geyser]

Ah, bosses talking to you while fighting, that's certainly interesting.

The closest we have is yagluth essentially saying his attacks out loud (he thinks it's an anime fight)

[humble acorn]

According to the trailer for mistlands it was literally an anime fight 😄

[hollow elm]

Do you know how many bones Yagluth has? It's not clear from my research, but it's definitely OVER 9000!

[hushed valley]

Ba dum-tss

[granite geyser]

"As far as I can tell, hp does not scale with player count"

@uneven geyser it does

[uneven geyser]

Good to know, but even then I still think they're a tad bit too tanky

[finite vapor]

i dont think so, they are all sub 10 min fights, queen maybe a bit longer if you melee it

they are just far too easy in multiplayer

[uneven geyser]

In that case then scaling is what should be addressed I think

Every time I fight moder with max upgrades it still takes ages

I mostly play singleplayer

[finite vapor]

it really shouldn't? she just sits there and you can whack her to death and dodge the attacks

might take off flying 2-3 times during fight

[uneven geyser]

What weapons do you use?

[finite vapor]

feel like queen is the only lengthy one, moder/yag should be 6-9 min on mormal difficulty, add 1-2 min for increasing difficulties

silver sword or fang spear moder

fang spear with spear skill 40-50 is prob the fastest its op

[uneven geyser]

That's weird, because even then I barely even scratch her, again, max upgrades included

[finite vapor]

just stay next to her and keep hitting, and if you want a really fast kill put a bonfire next to her and burn her and repair it occassionally

[wanton atlas]

@uneven geyser bosses HP is the same. but damage taken become less the more players there are in the same area a boss. and also the damage done becomes higher the more players there are.
The cap is at 5 players

[uneven geyser]

Gotcha, good to know

Idk, I just have a few memories where even with friends it took a full night cycle to defeat a couple of them for example, not sure if this is a shared experience others have

[hollow elm]

Interesting... do you know what the range is? (With specific emphasis on whether bow-wielders can deal damage without triggering the proximity damage reduction).

[wanton atlas]

you cannot stand outside the range, and hit anything with a bow

depends on the load distance you set. usually between 300 and 500 meter (I think it was)

[uneven geyser]

How much is damage reduced per player?

[wanton atlas]

I think it's 40%

[earnest sinew]

so what is the max range with a bow? they seem to shoot pretty far, aiming only like 20 degrees up

[wanton atlas]

max range is probably your own load distance

[earnest sinew]

aye, but assuming infinite load distance, the arrow goes up and must come down at some point short of infinity, right?

[wanton atlas]

well yes

the better bow, the faster the arrow, the longer distance it travels

[pure patio]

But no programmed-in max range other than the render/load distance, just range as a result of physics?

[earnest sinew]

could test this in game to find out but you'd need to setup a range, distance markers, and have someone else down the other end of the range to check the distance.
EDIT: you could also just use wood flooring or something similar to check which part got damaged and would then be able to know the range

[earnest sinew]

@knotty osprey iirc they already do move towards food, and tames no longer run away from fire.

also, if that boar is one you tamed instead of one you bred from already-tamed boars, it'll have that behaviour to always try to return to its spawn point. try breeding boars from it, then harpooning them and dragging them to where you want them to be. in theory when you let go of the harpoon they should just behave and stay.

that said, i agree and would also like some way to do this that's more of a dedicated solution/functionality, but i guess we gotta have something other than serpents to use the harpoon against lol

[wanton edge]

I hate harpooning my poor boars though! Give me a leash or something, I don't want to throw a barbed hook into them to move them around.

Also they only go for food when hungry, and only within a certain distance

[past idol]

I mean you can use the harpoon on other mobs lol. Not super useful but kinda funny...😅

[knotty osprey]

they should make the animals search for food in a larger radius or something, idrk how the mechanic works though

[earnest sinew]

the only other mob i think may be useful to harpoon is a deer but by that time you should be one-shotting them anyway

[silk halo]

30% effective HP per player up to 5, but for reasons already explained the actual HP doesn't change

[arctic wharf]

They get damage reduction... which means you deal less damage to the same pool of health, thus making it last longer.

Seems pretty clear ye

[granite geyser]

@azure cargo

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Skoll_and_Hati

[grizzled summit]

Does anybody else feel like the stone-age is too short for all the options in gear that you can make there? After a few minutes you skip all of that and go straight into bronze anyway. How would you others feel if the tiers were wood - stone - bronze so that you actually spend some time with stone-age stuff?
Of course, that would change everything and it would never be done, I'm just asking what if and would it have been good?

[round lotus]

That's just a matter of game knowledge. I actually spent 20+ hours in the stone age my first game just figuring out how stuff worked before i even set foot into a black forest.
Though i was kinda paranoid about it because the first time i even got near one a 1-star skeleton oneshotted me, so i crafted and upgraded everything i could before trying again.

Sure, if you've done it a few times you skip all of that, but the only way to help that is to remove those shortcuts. And i don't think most people would like that, i certainly wouldn't.

I figure it's Valheim's version of a tutorial level, really.

[azure cargo]

Do you think I didn’t know skol and hati existed? I am asking for this because knife players look significantly less cool than other weapon enjoyers

Like in early game

[arctic wharf]

Man... seeing how the combat is going to in the next Outward game makes me wish that valheim could take some inspiration from It hahaha. Notably just being a bit more fluid and allowing for freedom to what you wield in your off hand.

Good stuff.

[teal field]

Damn I didn't know they had officially announced Outward 2 - awesome

[viscid crater]

Outward 1 is such a 💎

[runic patio]

(RE stone tier) It took me forever to figure out you actually needed beat the Elder to progress personally

I was kinda stuck in a limbo thinking I was taking on bosses too early, but I wouldn't mind a [greater] wood tier, albeit I don't think it would add much to the game; technically there is one, just not tools.

[round lotus]

I want another wood tier for building with if nothing else. One that doesn't get damaged by water preferably.

[runic patio]

I dunno you grow used to it... it's only 50%, my RL deck is about in that state :p

[round lotus]

It looks ugly.

[stiff stag]

Just put roofing over it like you're supposed to if you don't want it getting weathered by the elements.

[arctic wharf]

sure was, but I will also say without any hesitation that outward 2 will for sure be a lot better. They have their focus in the right place as for what to improve. Combat was indeed the most rough aspect of the first game. 🤭

[granite geyser]

Considering all the dozens of people that suggest things that are in the game and are a clear proof that they jumped right into suggesting stuff after like three hours in...

No, I didn't.

And you're suggesting for dual-wielding knives which has 1) Been suggested many times and 2) It has been denied as the only dual wielding they will implement is how skoll & Hatti, flesh rippers and the upcoming ||berzerker axes|| will be like. You never mentioned that it should be implemented in early game, it's heavily implied to be how I'm thinking you suggested at first

They won't implement the possibility of dual wielding different knives

[arctic wharf]

Only sad part about finally getting the dual wield axes... is if they take the very same approach they have been for the whole game with the final biomes progression, then the axes and all of the ashlands weapons just like those before them will become outclassed and obsolete.

[pure patio]

I mean, that's the whole game. New gear obsoletes old stuff, you only have a few things that really have relevance and usefulness across multiple biomes. Fenris armor, Frostner, iron mace, etc.

But even then it's not obsolete. The food is more important.

[granite geyser]

Old gear is spare gear.

You die with all your stuff, you use old gear to recover. Going with "obsolete" gear is much better than going without any gear at all

[pure patio]

As an aside, that's why I have a full Carapace set as well as Eitr gear... when I die from being foolhardy with my Eitr gear I can go in with my Carapace and recover it 😛

[subtle rivet]

There are weapons that continue to be fun and useful even if they’re not mega-bashers for every biome after. Obviously the Frostner and crystal battleaxe stand out, but everyone will have their favorites

[subtle rivet]

Since the earth is flat, yes, unless it goes further than the edge

[earnest sinew]

^--- chad naked corpse run every time to prevent repeatedly dying and losing stages of gear

[earnest sinew]

valheim is flat, earth is not 😦 also, if these vikings and this world have the strength and materials to make and shoot a bow that could put an arrow into orbit, i am suddenly vastly more afraid of every enemy that doesn't die in one hit from a fist

[subtle rivet]

My bad for forgetting that “the earth is flat” could be taken as a serious statement 😵‍💫 what a world we live in

[stiff stag]

Yeah, what a flat world we live in.

[humble acorn]

tbf they said 'earth' not 'Earth' and there is a critical difference there

But maybe StarFlowerKat was joking

[earnest sinew]

the semantic differences implied by capitalisation and whether or not there's a "the" in front makes it hard to gauge the exact definition someone means when using interchangeable terms, had Sung said "the ground" or "the world" it would have been clearer
but yes, I was about 50% joking. the other 50% is my personal intolerance of scientifically disproven misinformation

[humble acorn]

I would say that we could safely just assume that they weren't randomly throwing out a flat earth statement and were using a valid word for the general terrain. But I think Since the map is flat, yes, unless it goes off the edge would have been more clear as well

I am not saying this is the case in this situation here, but not everyone in the server speaks English the same way across English speaking countries, let alone are native speakers. This could easily be a limitation of vocabulary or a difference in dialect or both. At the end of the day, it was a valid use of the word and the context should have been fairly obvious.

[earnest sinew]

The context of the joke should have been fairly obvious too, but differing perceptions can often lead to misunderstandings exacerbated by language barriers and the simplicity of text chat that leaves out a lot of communication and context cues. To be clear, this is the communication cue to let it go. It was a joke.
If I upset you Sung, I'm sorry, that was not my intention. If you or Sung think my behaviour was inappropriate with that joke, tell a mod. It's their job to maintain the peace and I'd welcome being straightened out by one if it's necessary. It isn't, however, yours.

[humble acorn]

Yikes

[subtle rivet]

The only thing that might upset me is seeing my name shortened to Sung 😂

[earnest sinew]

I can correct it in an edit if you want, it's an online chat habit to shorten everything I can for typing speed

[subtle rivet]

The earth in the game was assumed to be implied since… topic…
The map may be flat, but we’re talking about the land/sea base of the actual world and not the map of it

Keyword “might”

I do always hope that any conversation here can stay lighthearted though

[short wing]

So calling you beanie is ok though?

[outer crown]

#suggestions message @rare quartz flying mounts and air transportation are hard no from the devs iirc

[rare quartz]

if u can fly with comands why wouldnt u fly on a dragon

[granite geyser]

Idk what's the point of a bigger but still empty map

[rare quartz]

over time

[granite geyser]

The same commands that aren't part of the intended way of playing?

[rare quartz]

more biomes more space since the new biomes spawns at the edges of the map

[granite geyser]

So the new biomes that are already upcoming

I'm sure they would've never thought about that

[rare quartz]

xD

im sure everyone would love to fly on dragon instad of using boat and sleep during this

[granite geyser]

"everyone"

Very big words...

[brisk turtle]

not me

regardless, the devs have said multiple times that they are not going to do flying mounts, more biomes, or change the map generation in any significant way. fun ideas, but not ones that valheim devs are interested in

[granite geyser]

Cool factor isn't the only thing that determines how fun something is.

And exploration via sailing feels great

[rare quartz]

feels sleeping boring!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brisk turtle]

valheim might not be the right game for you, then 🙂 Maybe try palworld?

[rare quartz]

in every server i was playing on noone wanted to sail themselfs

oh i have 700 hours allready in valheim 🙂

only good thing about sailing is the fact u can go smoke and swap with your friend so he can smoke too

[pure yew]

Ibfeel like a Lox wagon would be clunky, better to just have inventory soace with a high weight cap in the lox saddle imo

[pure yew]

100% flying mounts would be incredible but the devs are against it unfortunately

[rare quartz]

they wont be in next few years

it would be better if u could teleport them 🙂

or bigger boat so u can place them there

[pure yew]

Listen all I want is to know about Ashlands is that we won't need Iron to make anything there lol

[rare quartz]

do you belives in miracle? 😄 hardcore servers are dying bcs of it xD

[pure patio]

We'll probably need iron and blackmetal, and have to find a way to haul the Blackmetal in 😛

[pure yew]

I know we can technically get iron in the mistlands but its radically inefficient and comes with a ton of uneeded Bronze. So we're effectively forced at biome 5 and 6 to go back to 3 (which then lacks any challenge) exclusively to mine ore.

[pure patio]

Unneeded? Look at this guy that doesn't make dvergr lanterns...

[pure yew]

I mean you only need so many but true

[granite geyser]

And Krom, and spiral stairs, and the dvergr window things...

It's also copper, not bronze

[pure yew]

I'm just saying. It would be cool if when we get to the awesome new biome to not be immediately forced to turn around and run swamp crypts.... again...

Don't get me wrong the swamp is an awesome biome but we're a little overpowered for it with mistlands gear lol itll be even worse with ashlands gear. Gathering with no real challenge or threat is just pickaxe simulator

[granite geyser]

The spiral stairs alone are a must

I hope ashlands has a renewable source of iron. Bonus point if it involves refining lava somehow, but that seems like an infinite iron source so I doubt it.

I would stop minding the iron grind if more sources for it are added

[olive yacht]

same

[pure yew]

I concur on that. If you can gather iron AS QUICKLY as you could in the swamp, then yes.

If it's going to be harder to get, just make it a new resource. You know?

Painstakingly surviving great challenges to get flametal for cool gear/structures would feel awesome. Going through extreme difficulty to get something we can already get with ease elsewhere would feel... redundant.

[rose swan]

Agree, hope we see another source of iron in Ashlands!

[ocean nest]

goat
In ashlands? Most likely we'll see salamanders

[granite geyser]

@violet sierra explicitly scrapped. You have different biomes already

[granite geyser]

"bull lizard"

lol

#suggestions message

[violet sierra]

seasons not biomes

these are not the same things nor do i portray them as such

[viscid crater]

Seasons are interesting but would require an entire rework of mechanics to feel worth the dev time. I'd rather they add real content and not "it's meadows but le snow"

[violet sierra]

what rework of entire mechanics would it require?

pretty simple additions i feel, the textures are all already in place
if winter and rain then snow

[viscid crater]

Food, clothing, gathering

[violet sierra]

why would any of that need to change persay?

[viscid crater]

To make the seasons interesting

[violet sierra]

well i guess interesting to you
but not what im suggesting to be fair

[viscid crater]

Without new mechanics, it's a performance-dropping reskin

[violet sierra]

no indication it would be performance dropping, again all the peripheral mechanics like rain exist already

if rain is already dropping your frames, then so would the snow, in theory, but no reason to gatekeep snow for a reason rain also applies to

[viscid crater]

There's a mod that adds seasons. It destroys the framerate on all but the absolute best PCs. Peripheral mechanics like rain existing only shows more than ever that ultimately featureless weather and terrain effects destroy performance. Swamps use to drop my xbox series x to sub 15fps and I wasn't even playing on high graphics

[violet sierra]

the first argument doesnt really apply, some mod somwhere by some guy doesnt say anything about the dev team. would you suggest to remove rain? otherwise i raise the same issue, why gatekeep snow, seasons broadly, for a reason that could gatekeep rain. besides, i find it hard to believe that a slow color change of green meadows to a autumn color would sevrly impact performance. provided it was properly worked on, just food for thought

[granite geyser]

It is for the devs which is what I meant.

That's why I explicitly said they were explicitly scrapped

[violet sierra]

respectfully you saying explicitly doesnt inherently to me mean the devs said so explicitly but sure cheers
ive had some communities flat out lie about what devs had said so just wary

[viscid crater]

Some mod by some guy shows that weather effects are extremely hard to do and ultimately not worth it. The fact that the best we have is poorly done means that the amount of time and effort it would take the small dev team is probably considerable and since you had to ask for potential changes to add worth, your idea would be a purely cosmetic change, that again doesn't add anything and takes up devtime

[violet sierra]

youre giving the random modder far too much leeway. I would never want a dev team to decide if somehting was or wasnt worth doing based on a mod or a modder doing it poorly. ive worked on very similar codes for similar scales and they truly arent inhrerently performance reducing, its only changing color, not adding fog or any of that
also you would never play a game that is mechanics only, cosmetic flare is good!

[viscid crater]

Adding snap points to structure pieces massively impacts performance, straight from a devs mouth. You can't make a judgement on what seemingly benign changes won't ruin people's frames. If the devs could click one button and instantly add seasons with no significant performance loss, I'd be all for it. But it's a tiny team with a lot on their plate and i don't think purely cosmetic changes as large as seasons are a justifiable addition at present

[violet sierra]

Lol im not suprised that adding snap points can massively impact performance. that is far far more complicated than what im suggesting. Your not establishing why a seasons change specifically, even if sworn off by the devs, is actually BAD. with your argument you could just as easily argue to remove all weather, day/night, and then stop developing the game because any addition could cause some performance issue. Like ive said, ive seen and worked with similar concepts and code, the change i suggested, not the one you made up in your head, would not impact performance beyond current rendering. its not adding rendering, just changing a color.

to steelman your case, to make it a seasons change that is special maybe adding some other components is necessary and that could affect the game. While i disagree, its a fair point.

[earnest sinew]

@granite geyser what's your favourite trophy to display as a mount? i'm a big fan of eikthyr and moder, special mention to serpent for just being HUGE

[granite geyser]

You already mentioned them lol

Although I haven't killed many serpents as to flex their trophies, I've only seen them via pics.

But eikthyr far compensates his easy fight by having the best-looking trophy

[viscid crater]

How do you know what you're suggesting is significantly less complicated from a coding and performance perspective? My entire argument was never that seasons changing was bad, it was that its a feature that takes too much time to add that then adds nothing meaningful. You claim it doesn't impact performance, but we already have an example of it absolutely hammering it. If it didn't impact performance, why isn't it on the list of coming features? Why have the devs moved past trying to add it if it's as easy as you say it is? It's not just changing a colour, it's redoing ground textures for every biome and checking round the clock for what season it is, how close it is to the next one, and thus how much to load in/out. Seasons changing isn't an inherently bad idea, but it's impractical currently and doesn't add features. If it was so easy, it'd be there

[earnest sinew]

Did I? Don't recall, sorry. I got the serpent trophies because bait and also they're so large lol
Eikthyr is best trophy for sure, but given how cool the antlers are, i wish there was more we could do with it

[granite geyser]

I meant that you mentioned them in that same msg (eikthyr and moder trophies)

Eikthyr bc horns, moder bc is a dragon head. Hard to beat those in style

[earnest sinew]

LOL i getchu, I already mentioned your favourites yeah okay
my reading comprehension appears to be alarmingly bad today
I give deer trophies an honourable mention, they look cool
maybe also drakes, definitely also wolves and cultist trophies
ik the game is PvE primarily, but it would be a neat addition to allow "player" trophies
i ain't gonna throw it in as a suggestion because I'm not that bothered but for those into pvp being able to claim a permanent... well, trophy, for their victories against others might be neat

[analog moss]

Like being able to carry home and mount someone’s gravestone

[earnest sinew]

aye but gravestones are generic, i was thinking more like the character model's head

[granite geyser]

@tulip pecan skipping tiers is not part of the intended way of playing the game, you do it bc you decide to do it, what would be the point of making one of the most powerful stamina foods being craftable earlier? What's more, the fact that you manage to cook it without actually reaching that tier feels like the actual reward for managing to brave a biome two tiers higher than the one you're at.

Does that mean they should also make a weapon from plains being available at mountains or swamps? Make eyescream being available at swamps or even BF?

There are already several options to skip tiers and allow you to play how you want, but it definitely does not mean the game should actively encourage you to do it as it's not part of the main gameplay loop. It's part of the things that make your playthrough more unique that you can do if you decide to.

The main idea of the suggestion doesn't make sense...

[tulip pecan]

'tis not the most powerful stamina food, that goes to fish n bread
it is in fact, the third and least powerful cooked stamina food of the Mistlands tier

What's more, the fact that you manage to cook it without actually reaching that tier feels like the actual reward for managing to brave a biome two tiers higher than the one you're at.
Can you explain what you mean by this?

[granite geyser]

one of the most powerful.

And I'm not taking into account the stamina value alone, the fact that it's cooked in groups of three makes it stand out a lot more

[tulip pecan]

Oh yeah, it's good snack food

Also it's not going to be one of the most powerful once the game is finished, most likely

[granite geyser]

You went to mistlands while still be far from actually reaching, yet you still decided to go there and try to get its resources, considering the lack of wisplight and overall good vision finding anything there is highly difficult.

Considering all this, if you manage to find the needed resources to manage to get some mistlands-tier food and items should be rewarding enough. Why making powerful tools and food being available earlier? It would just make getting them stand out a lot less...

[tulip pecan]

Oh. Because you can't actually cook them. It isn't possible without blackmetal

[granite geyser]

Even more, assuming they do take your suggestion into account and they do make salad available earlier... They would 100% nerf it and make it more on par with the mountain food.

What was the point then?

[tulip pecan]

You need pots and pans (blackmetal, Modergated) to make a level 5 cauldron to make all the mistlands food (including salad).
The highest you can get doing a bossless run (sequence breaking) is a level 4 cooking station by substituting what would be pots and pans with a mortar and pestle from the Mistlands
However, even if you do brave the Mistlands to acquire a level 4 cauldron, you can't do anything with it since all of the recipes at that tier require either flour (Modergated) or need to be baked (also Modergated). There is no reward. You get nothing. feelsbadman

So the point is to lower the crafting tier for salad by 1 so that, if you actually manage to go into the Mistlands with mountain-tier gear and set up a Jotunn puff farm, you're actually able to craft and benefit from a single actually decent food at the level you're playing at.

Although, maybe this is gonna just be a difficult stretch of the game for sequence breakers and something in Ashlands or Deep North helps remedy this. If the cauldron upgrade from either of those biomes isn't hard gated, it could be used to get a tier 5 cauldron to make some of the Mistlands foods.

[viscid crater]

Getting to the mistlands with mountains equipment isn't hard at all, frostner, drake helm, root harnesk and fenris legs is plenty

[tulip pecan]

oh right, frostner
bossless run, so no frostner (requires elder beaten for ymir flesh to show up)

Also, individual mileage, of course, will always vary. I thought it was a challenge and was proud of myself for collecting each of the sealbreaker fragments in mountain gear

[humble acorn]

I did the Mistlands in Mountain gear during the PTB. It's doable if you're smart but ultra brutal if you're learning the biome

[tulip pecan]

When the full game comes out, I think I'm gonna try to beat all the bosses in reverse order... it would be cool if the devs did an easter egg for that where if you beat the Deep North boss first on a world, then the Ashlands boss gets even harder, and so on down the line until Eikthyr is practically a god

[tulip pecan]

twas me, because i'm dumb and refuse to play the game normally

[humble acorn]

Idk if you can do it backwards. Don't you need mats that require higher level gear for the queen?

[tulip pecan]

hehe we will see

[humble acorn]

How can you have the dps to deal with the ads and regen of the queen as well? Or survive the burning heat of yagluth

[tulip pecan]

That's the coolest part of playing this way. You get to look at the game like a giant puzzle. What bits over here can be used to get ahead over there... sort of thing. Every tiny mechanic becomes scrutinized for its part in the whole.

Once the game is complete, maybe I'll have answers to those problems.

Right now, the farthest you can get without killing any bosses, hopping worlds, or using exploits, is getting a Krom, Carapace Spear, and Arbalast

[humble acorn]

#suggestions message

I think solving the inventory issues would be great, a backpack system similar to outward where you can use it as a normal inventory but then drop it and could open it up or swap it for a new one would be super cool. Another example is the shulker box from Minecraft but openable from the inventory.

I hard disagree on making the inventory smaller though. There are a lot of items in the game and inventory is already quite limited

[humble acorn]

I wonder if more stuff should be craft-able without fighting bosses. Just really give people more control over the difficulty ramp and flow

[tulip pecan]

Most stuff is craftable without fighting bosses if you're clever and persistent
At least up to Moder. Dragon tears are a hard gate to 85% of craftables all tiers beyond that

[eternal wyvern]

Question: If you're doing a bossless run, what defines success?

[viscid crater]

make the sealbreaker?

[lofty wave]

You can't do this without bosses

[lofty wave]

Collect every trophy? (Except for bosses, of course)

[viscid crater]

oh yea

colloecting every non boss trophy sounds extremely grindy and not fun

[lofty wave]

When playing with bosses, the goal is to get all the boss trophies

[viscid crater]

yea but thet're all guaranteed drops

"vril"... i know what you are, friend...

[open dagger]

#suggestions message light would rather attract them that scare them off right?

[finite vapor]

Maybe but the smell of smoke/heat should ward them off

[pure patio]

Bonfires are still a great way to deal with deathsquitos just as they are. They immolate themselves with abandon.

[hot willow]

Citronella flowers please

[jolly spindle]

Strange bright thing would scare creatures who’re already afraid

[earnest sinew]

how much fun you have

@granite geyser YES DEAR GOD PLEASE
I like what's there already, but it's so sparse and not even really needed past a certain point. It's effectively an entirely skippable biome aside from having to sail across it to get to and find other places, i'd like more of it to be necessary, and I'm hoping the rumoured new boat is made of scales to help make it needed more, though I'd also like serpents to be a little more common or easier to get full loot from in some way.

[granite geyser]

The almost guaranteed new ship for ashlands seems to be a good step towards a future ocean biome.

Right now ocean is mostly a means to an end, you pretty much only use it to reach somewhere else.

The internet explorer of valheim biomes

[arctic wharf]

We just need like a dozen more events and such you can run into on the ocean... so the odds of each trip to somewhere new are pretty high for being a unique experience from the last.
Of course content eventually gets old once you encounter it enough, but at least for the first few playthroughs it would go a long way to making the ocean a more involved and exciting experience.
Just keep the more dangerous encounters to a small distance from the middle so we still have somewhat calm waters to start with 🤭

[tulip pecan]

Self-set goals. Seeing how far you can go. "Journey not the destination"-type beat

Many people played Minecraft for years before it had a "win" condition, similar principle

Although ideally, my personal goal is to defeat the bosses in reverse order once the game comes out to 1.0, so that's my success condition
How I play up until then is basically studying for that until I either get bored or literally can't do anything else in the game

[lament zinc]

For the record:
this isn't the right place to discuss that. 😉

[tulip pecan]

Honestly I'm both excited and scared for Ashlands, since they teased that beating the queen might be required to enter the ashlands

[tulip pecan]

Perhaps, but I was asked a question and I answered it

[lament zinc]

Perhaps, but even while that happened here, you could've answered in this place right away: https://discord.com/channels/391142601740517377/1202177337328934973

[eternal wyvern]

There was a suggestion relating to boss less runs, I asked for clarification in the suggestion-discussions channel and they answered. I think that's appropriate.

[earnest sinew]

@lament zinc you better believe I'd be making huge eikthyr statues everywhere lol

[tulip pecan]

A specific bossless run mode defeats the point for me. It stops being "see how far you can bend the game" to just another intended difficulty option to select

[hot willow]

I don't see the point in a boss less run.. Like, whens the run over? What's the goal?

[eternal wyvern]

I asked that question last night. The idea seems to be creating your own set of goals. I think it may also be a challenge for some. I don't have anything against it but I think the devs should not consider bossless runs or other breaking of the main storyline when developing the rest of the game.

[humble acorn]

#suggestions message

Interesting idea, but I think they have to solve the inventory issues before adding what's basically duplicate items

[lofty wave]

What inventory issues?

[humble acorn]

Many new items keep coming, but inventory size, carry weight, storage containers, QoL storage options, and more, don't get any upgrades or new stuff

[earnest sinew]

idk, i feel like those are kept as they are to force some kind of focus. like how there's now 3 seperate stats you get from food, but still only 3 slots for different foods (in your tummy)

if there's a pattern found in chests, then ashlands should have a new chest size
wood - meadows
iron/finewood - swamp
blackmetal/tar - plains
skip another biome and you're on ashlands
for carry weight you have the megingjord

[humble acorn]

We haven’t gotten anything to storage since release. With the kind of inventory system the game has, it’s only going to become more annoying.

[earnest sinew]

isn't it part of the challenge? managing your inventory and stored resources to best aid you?

[honest salmon]

I agree on the inventory size, that is the one main issue why I refuse to play without an inventory mod. Wouldn't even need a lot of extra slots, but having 5 extra for worn equipment and 3 quick slots goes a very long way to making the inventory feel ok, while still restricting what you can carry.

[humble acorn]

To a point it is and that’s something to consider when implementing a system. And of course they are a few options for inventory that are optional the same way the belt is

But to extent. The challenge of needing a large storage room that’s tedious to search through when I want to craft something because chests are so small, inventory is small, and I cannot carry too much, isn’t one of the things that make Valheim challenging.

It’s cute and fun for a little while but as you progress and you get all these items and complex recipes. It becomes increasingly annoying and I feel like it’s reaching the limit

[earnest sinew]

blackmetal chests are the same size as the player inventory, and with signage you can make it easier to remember where stuff is
tbh i know i'll need one or two more when i get to mists but i'm still not running too many chests, long as my storage organisation remains consistent

the recipse is quite annoying. having huge lists to scroll through when you just wanna make some jam or something is getting on my nerves, i agree with that
player inventory size is fine i think, part of preparation (the behaviour the game generally rewards) is knowing what you DON'T need to bring

i do think it'll get better a little bit with ashlands. i'd bet on them making a new chest every other biome

perhaps intended behaviour is using obliterator to get rid of most of your older gear rather than having to store that

[humble acorn]

I have an idea for backpacks that you can wear and drop similar to a cart. You can see their inventory when equipped and you can open them when they’re on the ground. Maybe they can reduce carry weights and increase stack sizes of various items depending on the type and cost of the pack. That’s one at least that I feel is Valheimish

You can just not use them if you want the extra challenge similar to not using the belt

There are obviously different and probably better solutions as well

[earnest sinew]

oh hell nah if they put it in i'm using it
i'm just musing on what their intention might be* with regard to character inventory storage given they're about to drop the 7th biome out of 9 and we've gotten nothing yet

[humble acorn]

This system helps a lot but it’s not perfect. Better recycling loot would be great

[ocean nest]

Like 2 star carrot that gives much more bonus to health/stamina
2-star carrors will farm you instead

[eternal storm]

I'd like to suggest more storage options in the form of placeable stacks and I'd appreciate your feedback.

First, better usability of stacks, that normally require to destroy the whole thing. What if instead interacting with it would open a chest-like dialogue so you can take only a part of the stack, or add to an existing one? This could or could not be represented by the stack getting visually smaller or bigger, but the main point is to make them more usable.

Second, more stacks. Not necessarily for all things, but at least for stuff that people tend to accumulate on purpose, basically pieces used in crafting recipes, like food, ore and metal bars.

[viscid crater]

Wdym by "more stacks"? As in you can fit more items into a single stack?

[lone prairie]

I guess more "placeable" stack structures. Like current stack of ores\woods

[rose swan]

Personally I just like the idea of having dedicated armor slots, only because it just kinda makes sense? A naked man shouldnt and wouldn’t be able to carry more stuff than a man with clothes or gear on.

[granite geyser]

You place stacks inside dungeons.

That works as a way to store resources safely without relying on chests

[lone prairie]

mb devs should add dedicated slots for armors and remove same amount from "general" inventory space. Just for more "organized" feels of it

[rose swan]

Yeah, I’d like that as well. I agree, it would look a lot more organized and clean. I really don’t care too much about the extra inventory space.

[humble acorn]

3 special slots for consumables + 4-5 armor slots would be so helpful

[ocean nest]

light armor for plains and mistlands!!!!!!!!!
Fenris set

[eternal storm]

You know, like the wood stack, stone pile, and other storage entities that look like someone piled a bunch of that stuff, and that you can destroy with a hammer to get that stuff back.

They're very useful to make more believable storage facilities, also because the only alternatives are chests with very little variations in how they look, and you can't tell what's inside them without opening them.

[viscid crater]

ye i getcha, thought it was referring to chest inventories

[eternal storm]

My suggestion (aside from adding more ) would be to treat them like pseudo-chests that you can fill up to their max capacity (50 pieces) or take items out of, without having to always place or retrieve 50 pieces at once. Basically one-item chests that don't look like chests.

[granite geyser]

@tropic thunder

So you're suggesting: Go to ashlands (one side of the world) > go to DN (the literal opposite of the world) > go to ashlands again (the other side of the world that you were already at first) and then go to DN again (the opposite side of the world again)...

Should I need to explain the "problem" with this?

[lament zinc]

When using portals, it won't be much of a problem.
But for those playing without the use of portals it'll be something they will condemn a lot.

[drowsy heron]

About Seeker attacks, it's true. It went straight through black marble and hit me.

[granite geyser]

Precisely, it might be optional, but doesn't make it any less prompt to be ever done by no portal users.

People already complain about having to return hildir's chests, and that in comparison to this is a walk in the park

[lament zinc]

I understand that.
While sailing is a (big) part of this game, it could be "too much" as well.
And for those who're playing without portals, "too much" will be happen a lot earlier as those who're playing with portals.

But even then, even with portals this will be quite tedious to do. And certainly something I don't want to do.

[viscid crater]

@drowsy heron bones are used for some mistlands equipment and for bone bolts with the arbalest

[lament zinc]

@swift owl We're already picking up trash when fishing. Or at least, I got flint a few times and since I don't have much use for it, I consider it as trash.

[outer crown]

@swift owl all fish have 2 possible "extra" items that can drop, with varying chances of getting them, if you want to see which fish has what you can look here: https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Fish 😄

[drowsy heron]

Oh thanks, didn't know. Kinda hoped for bone maw like in minecraft to be honest

[earnest sinew]

I consider 1/10th of a piece of coal 😛

[mortal rivet]

yeah seeker attack hitboxes need to be fixed. its really frustrating and un fun to get attacked/killed through walls and floors.

[lofty wave]

I’m pretty sure all hitboxes work through walls, troll attacks definitely do

[granite geyser]

Yes, it has never been a seeker-only issue

All attacks with an aoe work that way

[mortal rivet]

sure but the nature of seeker dungeons make it more of a problem for seekers as end game deaths are disproportionately more punishing.

[granite geyser]

Even yours

They can attack you through walls.

Do the same

Bombs, fire staff, sledgehammers. All attack enemies through walls.

And something tells me that if they were to fix that, then you'll lose that advantage too. And between enemies and the player, guess which one has the actual awareness on how to use it to their advantage

[mortal rivet]

i think the angle and height of seekers makes them more of a problem because they can hit through the 1x1 blocks and get your feet. idk. i feel like a lot of my deaths are from clunky mechanics as opposed to something that feels legitimate. like if im entering or leaving an infested mine, where theres always that step, and seekers are outside of it, they can attack through that and just kill you. but yeah, guess it wont get fixed and i just have to git gud

[tulip pecan]

There's challenge and there's annoyance. Once you have supplies for a portal, inventory management becomes moot since you can just plop one down to your base whenever your inventory gets full.
However, with the variety of new drops but consistently limited inventory space, you'll be placing down portals every few minutes.
And no, choosing to have 3 extra free inventory slots instead of carrying around a portal is not a valid trade-off.

At least, I think the base game inventory (before bags/backpacks are added) could benefit from one extra column (4 more slots; so that the hotbar is 1-0 instead of 1-9)
Then, as long as they don't go overboard with more than 6-8 unique materials from the new biome that should be fine

[outer crown]

Isnt the hotbar 1-8 now?

[tulip pecan]

I don't remember

But fine then, 1-9

[lofty wave]

It’s 1-8

[tulip pecan]

So currently we have
8 hotbar slots
24 inventory slots
Hotbar slots get taken up by a shield, 2-3+ weapons, a bow, hammer, and maybe a quick potion or snack food
Armor takes 4 inventory slots
Accessory (Meginjord) takes 1
One type of arrow takes 1
Down to 18 slots
Potions and food take up between 4 and 6 slots
1 slot for wood, 3 for greydwarf eyes, fine wood, and surtling cores
At the end of it all you have 8-10 slots remaining for various drops, and those fill up quite quickly

[viscid crater]

You don't need food on your hotbar

[hot harness]

Potion, maybe, but even then, I do okay with keeping it in just the back inventory.

Maybe off to the side so I know where my mouse should be if I need it, but definitely not needing to drink it ASAP.

[tulip pecan]

The portal meta is also why I think Ashlands and Deep North should disallow portal travel at least initially until some condition is met (beating the boss of the biome for example)

[granite geyser]

You barely need it in your inventory.

I leave it at base so when I die, I come back with well-eaten stats rather than recovering my tombstone at base stats.

[viscid crater]

I take usually 5 of anything 30mins, 6 of 25, 7 of 20 etc. I spend a lot of time exploring and consistent base restocking takes the fun out

[tulip pecan]

2 health, 2 stamina, 1 balanced for me

So I can eat good based on the immediate situation

[granite geyser]

@outer sail

Enable devcommands

spawn coins 1000

Done

[humble acorn]

I don’t think we need any of that. You can always choose to disable portals or use them less frequently. I don’t want to 5x the duration of my play through just to travel

[tulip pecan]

Oh no
I meant specifically in those biomes

Like portals don't work in the Ashlands until you beat the boss

[humble acorn]

I know and that’s what I am referring to

[tulip pecan]

Oh when you said "I don't want to 5x the duration of my play through" I thought you were referring to the entire game and thought I was talking about disabling all portal travel until a condition was met for the update names themselves

[humble acorn]

No, it's all relative to the Ashlands

[tulip pecan]

I think that having to plan and pack supplies ahead of time for expeditions into the polar regions (especially with the new ship hinted at) without the easy-out luxury of portal travel creates an engaging new challenge in support of the game's exploration pillar, as well as switching up the formula we've all gotten used to

It also calls back to such expeditions that occured in real life

[humble acorn]

I think it can conversely create an outrageously annoying experience when the player gets to the Ashlands, dies to something, and then realizes they have to remake the new ship to float all the way back out there again because the portal just doesn't work. That being said, I am quite sure portals will || catch on fire in the biome as they are made out of wood and then you will need to stone bases or something more with you portals ||

And regardless, if a player doesn't think that "No portal here until boss dies" is cool, you won't convince them and that mechanic will just annoy some percentage the community. Valheim is already quite inconvenient for the average player. Like I said if you think that it's cool, everything is already there to make that experience for yourself

[stiff stag]

I honestly don't understand how people confuse needless inconveniences/tedium/etc. with challenges or anything other than a massive bore/mind numbing experience. If people want to hurt/punish themselves like that then fine, just don't force that onto everyone else, especially when the vast majority of people don't want that nonsense and for good reason.

[tulip pecan]

Valheim is already quite inconvienient for the average player, yes. It's a bold decision that I appreciate the designers for (mostly) sticking to.
Mileage will always vary, but when I form my game design opinions I do so based on the stated intent of the designers. On the Steam page for Valheim it says that it is a "a brutal exploration and survival game" so the pillars of its game design are brutality, survival, and exploration. Every major mechanical game design decison should circle back around to those pillars.

Also portals are kind of weird, yes they're crafted from wood, but they make stone breaking sounds.

Realizing that the portal doesn't work should be something that is obvious the moment it is built in the ashlands to not be unfair. Maybe even using the big yellow text.

Also that very scenario has happened to me many times where I've died kilometers away, had no portal, and had to build a new ship and use old gear to get back my stuff.

No portals also doesn't prevent you from finding a safe location to build a small waystation or forward base to set a bed and a respawn point in the polar regions.

[humble acorn]

Also portals are kind of weird, yes they're crafted from wood, but they make stone breaking sounds. No they don't

[tulip pecan]

Because what is challenging (or engaging) to some isn't equally challenging (or engaging) to others. For example, I've seen many people complain about mining copper during the bronze age. I personally enjoy it. It's engaging and relaxing, and oh-so-satisfying to finally drop off that cart loaded with ore at your base. (and very not satisfying when it 2/3 of it magically disappears when you make bronze)

It's a commonly understood idea in game design that players will often optimize the fun out of a game. Case in point is portalling back every five minutes to dump your inventory off. It's the most mechanically optimal decision to make, but it becomes tedious after a while. Good game design is often about protecting players from ruining their own engagement.

[tulip pecan]

Did they change that recently? I swear the noise is engraved in my memory

[humble acorn]

It has never made that sound for as long as I can remember

[tulip pecan]

Go boot up Valheim right now and whack a portal

(I can't because computer is sad)

[humble acorn]

Yeah but you said breaking sounds, not damage sounds

[tulip pecan]

damage and breaking are kind of synonyms

but alright, i meant damage

[humble acorn]

I work in audio for games, we for sure don't use them interchangeably

[tulip pecan]

Well ideally you'd use something like portal_damage and portal_destroy instead of portal_break to clear up ambiguitiy

[humble acorn]

That is typically how it's done

[tulip pecan]

but yeah it is weird that portals use the stone damage sounds, makes me feel like they wouldn't catch on fire

[humble acorn]

The sound is likely because the real portal is made out of stone and the wood one is a derivative of it

[humble acorn]

Your anecdote about the bronze is something that a lot of player like, it has charm and it's fun because the time investment to get to that stage is tiny. Most players bases are within walking distance to the first metals in the game and they get to mess around with the cart.

However, as soon as you go to the swamp, or you need more metal than your tiny black forest gave you, it now becomes a much much more tedious task, especially early game when you only have the karve.

[tulip pecan]

Yeah the swamp iron situation is kind of lame. The optimal strat there (excluding worldhopping) is to use the first iron you get to build the longship as soon as possible so you have space for hauling back even more iron in less trips (which is a step in the direction of good design, the optimal strat should be the most interesting/engaging/thematic one)

but crypt generation can really suck sometimes

it also wouldn't hurt if crypts were larger and had more iron in them

because they are fun to run around in

[earnest sinew]

i stick by my statement that limited inventory and preparing with that in mind is part of the survival exploration experience

but the swamp tier experience is still dogshit
it is entirely because of having to deal with iron-related issues that i decided i would portal metals around this run. last time i played the game through i didn't have a job, so i could spend as much time as i wanted playing the game - i don't have 30 years to spend mining AND moving iron bars this time lol

[round lotus]

#suggestions message i'd suggest actually giving it a try first. It's really not as bad as some people make it sound. There's the usual "new biome" learning curve but once you get used to it Mistlands are actually pretty fun.

[granite geyser]

@winged torrent

That it will 100% not going to happen

[winged torrent]

What didn't you like about bringing many more biomes and bosses to the game?

[viscid crater]

Why is your pfp a pair of large breasts

[winged torrent]

lol it's because the animated frame is hugging him

[viscid crater]

Wha huh?

[granite geyser]

1. I don't want them to continue the game for eternity

2. Seems like something unfitting for the game, like, an entire valheim sub world that is pretty much valheim but again? It's unrealistic, extremely unrealistic. You're thinking too much into MMO-like features

[winged torrent]

It's really not worth arguing with someone who asked to have castles ready so as not to make your own base

goodbye

[viscid crater]

Seems overly reductionary

[short wing]

I agree with Rianu though, I don't want them to continue the game ad infinitum.
I want them to finish this one, so one more biome, maybe an ocean rework and polishing, so that we have a finished game.
After that , who knows they might make another game.
Also we are already in the "underworld" we are dead vikings after all, wouldn't fit the narrative what so ever.

[granite geyser]

...

[granite geyser]

Considering that childish answer, I wouldn't bother trying to reason.

[short wing]

Butt, butt, ....
Sigh, okay.

[winged torrent]

I'm glad the game isn't yours lol

[viscid crater]

I think people's feelings have been hurt, it's best if you don't see each other again

[short wing]

I'm glad it isn't yours either it would be an abomination with underworlds of "underworlds".

[viscid crater]

Purgatory but again

[wanton atlas]

@granite geyser POI's cannot be larger

[round walrus]

I'm interested in the technical problem behind that

Like why is that so, is there some kind of limit to the number of building blocks perhaps?

[wanton atlas]

chunk size

if POI's is larger than a chunk. it will break or do wierd stuff

you might see those issues in ashlands

[round walrus]

Ah, makes srnse

[granite geyser]

How large a chunk is again?

[wanton atlas]

36x36 meter

[granite geyser]

Well that is very small...

And unfortunate

[wanton atlas]

yes

but if they where larger. the world would be alot emptier

[granite geyser]

Literally can't play anymore

[wanton atlas]

no

plz go refund

sorry we can't make you happy

❤️

[round walrus]

So the theoretically largest POI is a 36×36 floorplan insanely high tower

200 meter tall skyscraper lessgo

[granite geyser]

Yeah, I'll ask for a refund after +400 hours

[stiff stag]

I'll ask for a refund after 876000 hours.

[granite geyser]

@burnt field including devs.

Also, what does Midgard have to do with PvP?

[formal raft]

Isn't valheim just valheim (correct if i'm incorrect plz).

[boreal iris]

Why does everyone in this channel succeed at being such a dick😂

[lament zinc]

@burnt field We already got a PvP option.

Simply turn on the "Friendly fire" option and you can slaughter your friends - or be slaughtered by them - as much as you like.
No need to add a seperate option for it.

[granite geyser]

Yes, that's why I asked.

Idk what's the relation

@slate kite

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Fire_resistance_barley_wine

[slate kite]

Nooooo! Boooooo! Gimme drinking wine that makes me dizzy! SKAL! I want to ferment!

[past idol]

I mean there is something kind of like that now....

[burnt field]

Yes this option is great but doesn’t provide the depth that would come with a few modifications I mentioned.

Of course the devs have their hands full and likely wouldn’t come out with any update like this until after deep north. However this is a golden indy game and the nature of the map and current mechanics already support the mentioned idea.

I’m hoping the devs continue to add to valhiem well beyond the game preview and biome expansion

[granite geyser]

Once the game reaches v1.0, it's finished. No more content updates

And what you ask for is contrary to what the devs want. It's a co-op game, not a PvP game

It doesn't provide depth bc it's not even meant to have depth

[earnest sinew]

that's fair, and I will, but given that the "permanent" status mountains can be effectively removed, it's annoying that you can't do the same for other biomes. mistlands is the latest one but i feel the same about swamps. let me make a waterproof raincoat from leech trophies or smth, i don't wanna be wet all the time 😦

[wintry bobcat]

Its just about what they're balanced around. Intention of Swamp and mistlands is that the wetness and limited visibility is what makes it harder. Would be too easy without those

[earnest sinew]

at some point it doesn't need to be hard any more, especially when yuou're at least a biome further than it

[lofty wave]

At that point it isn’t hard, you have op equipment for the biome.

[stiff stag]

You don't seem to understand their comment. World modifiers are not the same thing as standard settings.

You suggested it as the default setting while it is never going to be the standard/default (hence what Smiffe is saying there). And as mentioned the suggestion already exists in the form of a world modifier setting, it wasn't added after you made the suggestion.

[agile tendon]

Did they add a way to change armor color or any degree of ship customization yet?

I don't want to scour the new patch notes and see every spoiler

[stiff stag]

@spark finch Unless there's something else going on in the smelting process that isn't commonly known that would account for the weight increase, it's clearly just a game design/balance choice, in which case logic doesn't apply as a reasoning to change it.

[narrow oak]

Hello, my wife and I are huge fans of Valheim and are super excited about ashlands, but we have made some observations about the coming patch after playing around with the public test build today, My belief from a fellow developer standpoint is the self illumination on the lava needs to be buffed 20-30% it doesn't pop as much as it should especially based on real life footage of volcanic eruptions, especially during the daytime. My wife is disappointed that the new Ashwood wall is not the same depth as the existing wood wall which makes it incompatible with interconnecting it to existing wall pieces which could be detrimental to builds incorporating both pieces. Also I highly recommend that the ashwood decorative wall/divider/floor be a smooth shaded mesh, versus the current flat shading as it makes it look out of place, as the carved darkwood divider is smooth shaded and in the current build it makes the polygon division very visble and jarring compared to existing pieces.

[stiff stag]

@weary badge The hammer is by design a 2 handed tool, which is why you can't have a torch equipped at the same time. And if they had plans to allow for that, they wouldn't have made it 2 handed in the first place.

[small surge]

Enjoying the Ashlands test server. On the suggestion side, would be nice if the camera could pull back a bit further from the new ship. Make visibility better. And perhaps make the fires less hostile to the initial meat cooker. Thanks.

Really they need to be less hostile. You really can't cook anything before he wee little wooden sticks burn though.

[weary badge]

Ok just hard to see and build at night.

[tulip pecan]

Or it's just an oversight they haven't bothered doing anything about

[granite geyser]

#valheim-public-test

@radiant bay

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Skoll_and_Hati

#valheim-public-test

No spoilers outside of that channel please

[elder forge]

I think it was a stylistic choice, but I really don't think it works in practice at all, and it clips badly with hoods. I think it'd be much improved for the removal of that high collar.

[granite geyser]

#suggestion-discussion message

#suggestion-discussion message

[pure patio]

@mortal river feedback for Ashlands goes in #ashlands-feedback-only , not in suggestions

[wooden yoke]

oh ok, i looked for the best channel and i see now why i couldnt find it, i dont have access to it

[random monolith]

#suggestions message
Imagine they do this by making scrap heavier
would be hilarious.

[mortal river]

ah ok sorry

[stiff stag]

You can take a visit to id:customize to gain access to the channel. Should be the "I want to become a public tester" option.

[wooden yoke]

thanks!

[stiff stag]

@tidal hinge I'm sure anything like that is rejected because it would require a complete major overhaul to the terrain system (the time and effort required would not be worth the payout), and because allowing for fully/nearly fully enclosed and indestructible bases goes against the game design (particularly in regard to raids being nullified by such a thing). Terrain walls and trenches already make the majority of raids a non-issue as is, no good reason to push it further.

[tulip pecan]

Terrain walls and trenches being the optimal way to handle raids saddens me greatly. They're so ugly but also 100% stop everything that doesn't shoot or fly.
I wish the non-fantastical endgame of base defence would look like actual Viking earthwork forts
https://www.science.org/content/article/thousand-year-old-viking-fortress-reveals-technologically-advanced-society

Also in general, I've never seen base defense and fully-modifiable 3D voxel environments work nice together in games. 7 Days to Die gets the closest, as you can (slowly) mine out an underground base, but then you just get tunneling zombies on the blood moon night.

[round lotus]

ashlands has enemies that do blow through terrain walls

[granite geyser]

#suggestion-discussion message

[tulip pecan]

https://tenor.com/view/oh-ooh-oooh-ooooh-oooooh-gif-19977128

hey what happened to image posting >:(

[arctic charm]

wdym, members never have been able to use gifs

[tulip pecan]

In this chat smiffe allowed image posting for suggestions (after i asked him nicely)
It also extended to gifs i think
perms musta got reverted after the channel was remade

[short wing]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

[tulip pecan]

Legitimately though.
It might have not been embeds (my memory is spotty) but we certainly could upload files.

[short wing]

Files still possible in help I think.