career-advice

[smoky quest]

As a disclaimer, my interest and focus lies more with high performing teams that can execute on complex tasks with limited resources. So I do filter for self driven, highly capable and ambitious engineers

(which kinds of kills me and the team, now that we are just waiting it out at a large company and the most valued skill is your politics and how good you are at tapering over failures with fancy words and graphs that go up)

[dense mesa]

This was really good to read, thank you for posting 😁

[ivory sluice]

• Give people problems, not solutions. Furthermore you don't scale by being the central point. Being a leader is being able to effectively delegate and having people understand the expectations and parameters of the problem/task
• Failure is not the problem. What matters is how you (or the engineer) deal with it

these 2 points are amazing, i wish more leaders followed suit

[smoky quest]

That may sound like a cliche, but people want to achieve great things and be proud of their work, especially in tech.
And I do like that quote about management where it's defined as being the fine line between staying out of the way and providing guidance

[vapid jay]

Hello.

Would someone please check this part of my Curriculum Vitae?

[smoky quest]

Put the most important things first. As is, it means you want the interviewer's main takeaway is your skils in markup languages over anything else

[vapid jay]

Ohh. Thank you for this insight. I will correct the order 😀

[drowsy drum]

is there a way to measure ones own aptitude for programming jobs? I'm self taught on python and have taken 2 college courses in java, but all the entry level jobs seem vague in how much depth you need to know or what problems you'd need to solve

[smoky quest]

Rough estimate: 1-2 easy/medium leetcode in 20-30 min, or 1 hard leetcode in 20-30min.
Beyond that, there is nothing better than the trial by fire. It's typically recommended to do your first interviews with companies you don't care about as to get some experience with interviews and do better for the ones you do care about

[smoky quest]

Also https://roadmap.sh/ has a detailed list of skills.
Just be mindful that the listed skills are well beyond the expectations of an entry level engineer. So don't get too overwhelmed

[drowsy drum]

ah, ok. thx.
btw, are remote jobs much different than on site or hybrid?
rn I'm limited to looking for remote jobs, not sure how that may affect my prospects.

[harsh pewter]

Hey guys i just finished my freshman college application season: the colleges i got in for computer science was: Cal Poly SLO, UC Santa Cruz, UC Riverside, San Jose State University, and (waitlist to UCSD maybe ill get in???). I need help deciding which one I should go or list the pros/cons of it.

[smoky quest]

remote jobs require a lot more communication and trust.
Entry level engineers would in general be preferred to be onsite as it's easier to train and guide when being face to face.

[delicate bane]

this was great, thank you

reminds of the phrase "people dont leave bad companies, they leave bad managers"

well maybe sometimes they leave bad companies but i find many talk about the latter more often

[soft bay]

hay fam

is anyone active?

[cunning relic]

no

[smoky quest]

That's true!
That said, it's a team sport, and while employees can put up a lot more with a better manager, the manager will still be limited by what their management support.
Toxic management will lead to disillusion and cynicism and other bad words. It only goes down from there and there is only so much one can do to protect their teams

[frosty terrace]

Indeed and linkedin has so many scammers for job postings... any better places?

[plucky cypress]

A slightly random question - I'm gonna be graduating in the next few months and finally get into the software dev industry. I've been trying to work on my code readability and Git usage these past few months but are they are any other skills you guys would recommend that you see a lot of new graduates lacking in that are overlooked or need work, Python specific or otherwise?

[delicate bane]

my dev friend told me to work on git and testing specifically. but thats if you are going into traditional dev work. im still not sure if thats what i want to do, but i will work on those 2 skills specifically anyway

[vapid jay]

Um... I think GUI is better. I think carefully...

[summer roost]

GUI is better than what?

[ember ivy]

can anyone tell me which computer language should i learn first?? i am kinda confused???

[buoyant seal]

Unit testing: best principles, practices and patterns by Vladimir Khorikov.

Good book to start in testing.
Any junior starts with garbage code.
Testing allows to move forward and refactor it once the person acquired slightly more skills.
Plus testing enforces minimal code quality by design

[buoyant seal]

As for git... I recommend this visual interactive tutorial.
https://learngitbranching.js.org/

Plus reading somewhere general best practices regarding git usage
https://deepsource.io/blog/git-best-practices/
Those five things should be good enough
Try for them to sink into you, as deep as possible

[buoyant seal]

That u work already on code readability is nice ;)

[buoyant seal]

Decide in what domain area field u wish to be(Desktop app Development, mobile Android, iOS dev, web development, machine learning, embedded dev to hardware), then we could recommend best compatible languages

[buoyant seal]

What is not traditional Dev work?

[smoky quest]

In addition to the great responses above, I would add to learn to use your tools.
IDEs have tons of features to help you navigate, understand or refactor your code. Similarly, debuggers are great tools

[delicate bane]

dont ask me. i only have an idea of the conventional stuff

great resources btw

[frank saffron]

I am very bad at maths, so what u think I should pursue? I am very new to programming. I am starting with python but that's all about it. I have no clue what to do. Pls help

[buoyant seal]

I would exclude data engineer / machine learning / game development out of your career paths if u aren't good with math

[keen locust]

Is there career discussion

[buoyant seal]

And I think u should start with getting CS degree. Starting with just Python tells me like u know nothing about programming

Programming is way more than just knowing language syntax

[keen locust]

I am new to programming so how I chose a line

Can you suggest me to how to start

It

So can you help me in it

[smoky quest]

start what?

[keen locust]

web devlopment

[smoky quest]

From a career perspective: https://roadmap.sh/ can show you a list of skills
From a technical perspective: #❓｜how-to-get-help since that would not be the appropriate channel here

[keen locust]

I complete almost all CSS so what should I gonna start

[frosty terrace]

Is 75k - 85k too much for entry level data analyst/python developer/web developer?

LinkedIn has been garbage for me. 99% of them appear to be scammers. I never got calls or messages for someone who was American, didn't have an accent, or wasn't a job agency. I literally use Google voice now because I've been getting more scam calls and texts. Didn't think LinkedIn was so awful.

[dense mesa]

Nah seems decent

[frosty terrace]

are tests common for entry levels? I've been told by many programmers that tests are for bigger businesses and it isn't common. It's consuming loads of my time

[frigid isle]

Hey guys, I was wondering since many people say you learn alot from Hackathons.

I recently knew about a Hackathons but I decided to skip it since i can study for my final exams.. But then my friend joined so I feel like I wasted a huge opportunity.

So if I may ask, what do you exactly benefit when joining a Hackathon?

[buoyant seal]

Semi common.
If I would be hiring junior, I would choose the one which can test.

U probably do it in the wrong way.
Good testing speeds up development by 2-10 times
Especially it speeds up development of program which is having code base larger than one week
Than more code, then more important tests

Any program bigger than one file requires to be tested. Even program out of one file often does

[frosty terrace]

i mean like assessment tests

[ember ivy]

umm, can anyone recommed me language for machine learning,, like the langugage which is most important for AI

[frosty terrace]

Python

[buoyant seal]

Python

Check https://kaggle.com

Mostly ML is in python

[ember ivy]

i'll be passing out from the school within 2-3 months,, so i want to learn a language,, wish to pursue my future with computer sceinece,,,,

[frigid isle]

Python is nice

[ember ivy]

thnxx 🙂

[dark moon]

I might also recommend C++, since AI is going to have some pretty specialized requirements in terms of performance. Python just happens to be structured in a way that makes it ideal for most AI programming, but, having a good knowledge of what the language (any language) is doing to interface with the hardware and the OS underneath itself would be helpful

[buoyant seal]

It has good tutorials to get started in ML. Try to get started with hand written symbols recognition challenge

[dark moon]

Be warned though, C++ is a different sort of beast from Python

[ember ivy]

ohkk, i am kinda new to all this,, so i'll be needing help,,

[buoyant seal]

C++ looks to me a terrible advice for ML. This swess multitool will get you lost in its terrible design and ecosystem

[dark moon]

Not as an AI tool in and of itself, just as a means of better understanding programming languages in general

[ember ivy]

i'll start with python

[buoyant seal]

CS Student, aren't you?

[dark moon]

I wanted to ask you all about how I might proceed with my degree. I was originally planning to do a double major in computing science and math, but then I saw last night that six of my nine required courses next year are math courses. I like math, but I don't want my whole life to revolve around it. Add to that that as impressive as a math degree is, it won't do me much good in most of the jobs I actually want to do

[buoyant seal]

xD I knew it

[ember ivy]

i regret not opting for python language in school

[buoyant seal]

My CS degree similarly started our training from C++, so I guessed your background of thinking right

[dark moon]

Problem is, the most sensical alternative — some kind of mixed programming and design (web design, interface design, 2D and 3D asset design, etc.) isn't offered by my school. I'd love to do something that got my hands on 3D modelling for a few years, and honed my eye for design in general. What I don't want is art history

[buoyant seal]

He has some point though... It would be highly beneficial to get CS/math degree

Data engineering, ML, requires good math education usually

[ember ivy]

got manipulated by my friends,, to not opt python,, :(,,, wont be repeating that mistake ever again

[ember ivy]

i do study maths,, and also be giving JEE, so i have quite a good grip of the subject, of my level

[dark moon]

Python isn't the type of language to hide its secrets — it's designed as a matter of philosophy to be highly intuitive. Much, much more so than some languages. You'll pick it up pretty quick just by using it

[buoyant seal]

Quick to start, harder to master

[dark moon]

True

So anyway — is there a degree for what I'm thinking of? Is there some combination of majors and minors?

[buoyant seal]

I don't really have usage for math too even if I finished my degree math/CS oriented.
It is just often put into CS, so there is no escape from it

[hearty island]

my friends almost fell into a multilevel marketing scam bc of northwestern mutual showing up at the career fair

[buoyant seal]

Get more CS from your program, minimize math impact. And endure it to get at least bachelor's degree

It is easier to get recruited with degree after all

[dark moon]

Like, I love math. I find it fascinating. But not to the point I want 2/3 of my courseload to be math

[hearty island]

a computer science major typically involves calc 1, calc 2, calc 3, and linear algebra

[buoyant seal]

Erh. In later years we had a lot of math calculated with CS means. Think of it as CS learning practice in data engineering domain

[dark moon]

And discrete math, which I am simultaneously loving and loathing

[hearty island]

yes discrete math, forgot about that

[dark moon]

My actual question though is this: considering I'm already in the CS degree and it's my prime focus, is there some sort of standard career path that can detour through design from where I'm at?

[buoyant seal]

We had all sort of math flavours. Math analysis, differential equations, discrete math, linear algebra, regression analysis, theory of probability, and dozen more math names

[dark moon]

Specifically — document design and web design, UX/UI (!!!), 2D asset creation (sprites, infographics) and 3D asset design, WITHOUT taking me down the art-history rabbit hole

[hearty island]

i think my friend has a degree from rutgers on that stuff, hang on lemme look at his linkedin

something like MLIS? interaction design and informatics

[dark moon]

My first year of school, at a different school, was for a diploma of "interactive media design" — and that marketed itself as what I'm talking about but in the end it was a shitshow of a program

[hearty island]

shoot, then i have no idea how to answer maybe someone else can help, sorry this stretches beyond my area of knowledge

[buoyant seal]

U should check disciplines

System analysis and design
https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Analysis-Design-Alan-Dennis/dp/1119496500
For planning projects, it gives the coverage of all steps involved in planning software

UI/UX design is subset of system analysis and design, u can learn books for that too.
Partial diving into graphical stuff already

Making 2D and 3D models sounds like diving into art rabbit hole to me

xD technically coding is subset of system analysis and design too. One of final steps to implement the product

[dark moon]

Thanks bros 🙂

[hearty island]

well done ^ nice answer

[buoyant seal]

U a welcome. In the book beginning it will also describe to you all the related career paths related to it, and with which background people come to it

[floral tulip]

Hello bros

What program should I study to build missiles?

[dark moon]

Lemme ask one other question. If I do decide to stick with the math major — will it not help going into the software industry?

[dark moon]

I would hazard a guess that most missiles are built with either proprietary programming languages, or else some very low level language. In either case — you'll need at least a standard computer science degree

[buoyant seal]

I can't say exact answer for your country. For my country math degree is almost equal to CS degree, and often just equal

[true harness]

there's also the hardware side, lots of cool tech needed to let the missile know where it is and where it isn't

[hearty island]

how do you handle anxiety during interview questions?
for example, let's say you are faced with a problem during the interview that you do not know how to answer and your time is running out. what do you do?

[dark moon]

Answer honestly

Maybe something along the lines of "I don't know, but, I'll be happy to learn"

[hearty island]

that's along the lines of what i was thinking

or propose a brute force solution and be like but i'm unsure on how to optimize it from here

maybe sketch your thinking process out on the whiteboard

[desert granite]

So I was discussing this with someone in general chat and I was asked to go here. They talked about junior developors being able to make a good amount already like $50-70k+.

I researched it and I found: Junior developers use a lot of code written by others and be able to install programming languages on your computer and know a lot of basic coding languages

Is getting decent at programming languages, making projects, and being able to solve a lot of programming questions a good path for me especially since I'm not that advanced and still consider myself a beginner?

[peak halo]

what is your goal, and where are you now? are you a high school student wanting to become a developer? what kind of development do you want to do?

[desert granite]

I'm a sophomore highschool student who wants to do computer science and I want to write codes to create applications

[peak halo]

there's a lot of different kinds of development, and usually your career centers on one. though you aren't necessarily expected to know what they are, or (if you did) know which one you'd like to do. since you're still in highschool, it sounds like doing projects that are interesting to you is a good way to get a feel for things.

you might also look into computer science programs that you'd be interested to attend and figure out what they look for in applicants. chances are, they will want to see that you do well in math.

[desert granite]

Gonna be honest here. My dad is a computer programmar, I like making projects and stuff and i like the idea of being able to just sit at a computer and use my brain to figure out how to make things and control the computer. ill definitely look at computer science programs

[upbeat forum]

hey everyone. what kind of questions can I expect in an interview for a python developer with 2yr experience?

[delicate bane]

typically programs dont have set those types of minors in place unless your school is known for it/has it available. you can always just take a couple electives for UI/UX design or 3D modeling if your school offers it and i would recommend self-imposed personal projects using those concepts for those classes as a starting-off point

[delicate bane]

thats great. seems like you have experience and itll just be a matter of trying out dif types of projects and seeing which area of programming you think you like the best

[static fable]

im pro hackre

[crimson mural]

@ivory sluice If you are avilabe help me please

Guys I need help in choosing my career

is there a person who is able to advice me

Ill talk in DM better

[smoky quest]

Whether you do it in DM or in a channel, you still have to type the very same thing. So you might as well type it here so you can tap into more brains

[crimson mural]

I want to do it in DM bcz i might say personal infromation

[smoky quest]

What type of personal information?
You may want to try first without personal information. Very few people would do DM here

[gleaming cedar]

Does online coding bootcamps really help graduates to transition into Web Developement

[smoky quest]

What do you mean by "graduates"?

[crimson mural]

why are you mad

[gleaming cedar]

The ones who got into entry level jobs but interested in Web developement

[smoky quest]

I am a bit confused. You are saying you got an entry level job but not in web development? How close to webdev is it currently?

[smoky quest]

Not sure to follow. What makes you think I am mad?

[gleaming cedar]

It's like data integration and not related to web developement at all, I'm planning to enroll for an online full-stack coding bootcamp for a career-switch with a year

[smoky quest]

tbh, bootcamps sweet spot are for people who couldn't get a CS degree or are completely changing career past the age of going to college.

If you are already in CS, you may be able to get away with webdev related projects, which sometimes you can do as part of your regular job (ex: internal webapp)

but if you think it can help you, sure.

[gleaming cedar]

Yea, I already learnt Javascript last month, and I'm comfortable with Html and CSS, I'll consider your suggestion and try building some small applications as part of my regular job..
Thanks!

[smoky quest]

As a side note, a CS degree opens all the doors and is considered sufficient for you to pick up any subfield.
When you see a resume from someone who has a CS degree and then a bunch of certs/bootcamp, the interviewer may start to wonder what's wrong with them and what are they trying to compensate for

I see people jumping between frontend/backend/mobile/data/ML/etc all the time. But the earlier in the career, the easiest

[gleaming cedar]

Whoa.. Yess..It was quite hard to earn this degree and I'll start building on some creative small stuff instead of those certifications and all..

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[warped creek]

do you guys think jobs in CS will be a thing 10 years later or will it all be automated with AI

[sudden yacht]

@vapid jay Please stay on topic.

[vapid jay]

my bad bbg

[summer roost]

The skilled part of a development job is rigorously, thoroughly, and unambiguously describing to a computer the job that you want it to do. AI wouldn't remove the need for that job, it would just push it up a layer, so that programmers would instead be rigorously, thoroughly, and unambiguously describing an AI's goal to it.

I think the sort of AI you're picturing is much closer to sci fi than reality, but even if it existed, it wouldn't really reduce the need for developers.

[delicate bane]

yeah it will still be a thing, you still need people to work with AI anyway. more abstraction just means you can iterate more

[hearty island]

who do you think will code the ai, continue to optimize it, and fix it when it bugs out?

[plucky cypress]

AI is very good in certain fields currently, such as writing. But 10 years ago, people asked the question if we'd have fully self driving cars by now and look where we are - the most we've got really is Tesla's that are still not fully autonomous. AI is an interesting field with a huge amount of potential, but it has a huge way to go before the scenario you're imagining

[potent sluice]

We do have fully self driving cars, it's just that people and corporations are too scared to use them since they come with annoying legal and moral repercussions should something happen

[robust atlas]

👍

[chrome yew]

hello guys, i'd like to know how difficult it is being to find a good job, with a nice team, nice salary... Do you think it will be harder to find these jobs in a decade (for example)?

[smoky quest]

no we don't and won't happen for a while.
Tesla still has quite a few problems on highways, many other competitors have things working in theory in closed, simpler and predictable environments, OR explore ways to have other humans take over remotely control of the car in situations the system cannot handle.
There are still tons of opportunities for improving and jobs in that area 🙂

[potent sluice]

See Waymo

[bitter dome]

Çircle

[reef kite]

Hi All, new here so please let me know if not appropriate channel to post this question.
Currently started learning Python via YouTube Videos with the aim of using it for my Trading and even maybe finding an entry level job in programming so I can earn some money while gaining experience (previously I was a Accountant/Business Analyst background with VBA & TM1 Coding Experience, and some exposure to SQL Queries and relational databases).
I've researched and found Microsoft and Python Institute offer certifications. Any suggestions for Python Certifications and pathways?
Note: Based in Australia if that makes any difference?
Thanks in advance.

[undone willow]

Not sure how to ask this but is there anyone here who knows about programming a lot? Succesful and passed through school and stuff? I need to ask some deep questions and get some insights about some things. Its school related stuff.

[smoky quest]

Bootcamps or interesting projects are the main paths for the self taught route.
Certifications aren't really considered as much as degrees would.
In terms of skills, you could check https://roadmap.sh/ or look at the job ads for your target jobs

[smoky quest]

It's best to type your questions here so that you can tap in the brains of the people here.
In general, don't ask to ask, just ask.

[undone willow]

I'm afraid to know whether or not programming is for me. I have focusing problems and I believe they may be because I don't love programming. I'm 27 and i'm afraid i'll be homeless and commit suacide if I don't get a career soon.

I just got held back for my bachelors degree in buisness. And I will more than likely have to get a C.S degree before even applying for a position somewhere. Which will mean at least 2 more years of school. And this time I will have to pay out of pocket as well as work for a living I think.

I am afraid of failing more and finding out I am not good enough or that my teachers fail me wtihout a second thought again.

[smoky quest]

Sounds like your problems run deeper than whether CS or not. You may want to reach out to a therapist regardless and ensure you have a support network.

With regards to a career in CS, we are lucky enough that most of the tools are free to use and can get quite a good idea by exploring and trying things out.
So I would encourage you to do just that! Make a website, make some backend, make some small mobile app and see how you feel about it.

In general, if you are afraid to fail, make a list of the potential risks. What would make you fail?
There will probably be two types of items:

• The unreasonable and intangible fears that you have now identified and cross out
• The items that could reasonably happen. The good news is that you now have a list of them and can prepare for them to ensure they don't even happen

[undone willow]

What if the things I make are boring and not useful? Also i'm a little unsure of how to pay for a therapist or how to look for one. If you know how to go about that in the U.S thatd be nice. I can maybe work something out but I'd like to know how to look for one if possible.

And thank you Error.

[smoky quest]

Software engineers are paid to solve problems. So people will come to you with their problems to solve. Furthermore, when you start out, your manager/lead will chunk the work in small items.
So what you work on will definitely be useful to someone.

With regards to the boring part, it depends on the problems you are working on. But computers and software are so pervasive that there is no shortage of interesting problems to work on

Furthermore, many problems may seem boring from afar but can be quite interesting as you dive in deeper

[smoky quest]

With regards to a therapist, that would be specified in your health plan/coverage, including copay and costs. You should log in your provider and they should have some info about it

[undone willow]

I've worked on building a website with Flask before and it runs but...I don't know how to make it good? Or useful?

There seems to be thousands of flask websites and I just look at all of this and wonder: "How does a newbie differentiate themselves?"

I've wondered if it might even be useful to copy something interesting, see if it works, and then change it a bit to make a portfolio.

But part of it feels like cheating? Unsure where to draw the line on cheating and re-using tbh.

EDIT: This is the last thing I will ask. I am sorry for clogging the thread with so much non-trivial programming things.

[smoky quest]

That is mixing 3 different things:

• How to make it good or useful is part of learning becoming a great software engineer. Something that comes with teaching and experience
• Did you enjoy working on your flask website? That is the main takeaway with regards if this field is for you or not. The rest is details
• When building a portfolio, don't copy/paste things. That would be cheating. But you could certainly look at how others are doing something to learn from them. But that would be a different context and not copy/pasted for the purpose of building a portfolio

[reef kite]

thanks for the response.
So in your opinion a degree > industry certifications (e.g. Python Institute) ?
Would this still be the case if you already have a degree that's not in comp science or IT? I already have a bachelors degree in commerce/accounting and did do some introductory units in IT (SQL, relational databases) but it was very basic stuff

[smoky quest]

A degree >>>>> certifications/bootcamps.

Overall, it's no different than the opposite situation: How would someone with a CS degree find a job in commerce/accounting?
Some paths are about finding jobs that are in between and where your commerce/account skills remain at least partly relevant. Some other paths are about proving you are worth hiring. And any degree is better than no degree. But at the end of the day, it's whether or not you have a demonstrated set of skills and how you fare with the average applicant

[undone willow]

I liked getting it done. I hated dealing with dumb errors or asking why my Python code and my HTML code weren't playing nice together. I kept on looking and looking and never go the answer. Some here got it to work but for some reason there code didn't work for me.

🤷‍♂️

Not sure where that leaves me. I hate leaving things undone and recently tried to move on to a different flask project.

[smoky quest]

Everyone gets frustrated when they encounter some errors and get stuck for a while on it. That's part of the game 😉
It's also very rewarding once you solve it. Being able to solve it comes with knowledge and experience as well.

[undone willow]

Very true. I guess I need to ask myself this question again when I code again tommorow.

[smoky quest]

Just make sure you don't let fear hold you back.
Make lists of pros/cons and try to be data driven.

Overall, education will provide knowledge and building projects will build experience.
Junior engineers are also typically mentored and helped at the jobs. So there would be a senior engineer able to unblock you.
So don't overthink some of the potential issues and do not hesitate to ask about any doubt or question in channels like here

[undone willow]

I just see so many jobs require a bachelors in C.S or something similar. If possible I'd do a coding project for them and not go to school again. But I know that education provides a lot of value to employers and programmers alike. I feel its a 'must do' in this field.

[smoky quest]

a degree does open a lot of doors and that's what 99% of the candidates have.
So it becomes: how do you stand out? how to demonstrate you are worth talking to?

Thus the opportunities will be lesser and the most common entry point for self-learner is webdev, but there are some jobs.
And you will need some more solid projects

[reef kite]

I see. Would you suggest a 2nd Bachelors (in addition to my Commerce Accounting one), a Grad Diploma, or Masters in CS?

My initial thinking was doing boot camps and projects and just trying to leverage my 7+ years commercial experience and process design/implementation which included some VBA/TM1 coding to differentiate with other candidates for the more junior/entry level roles and work my way back up the ladder. Happy to take a paycut and then prove my value over time.

Note: getting a Python job is primarily to gain experience for me in Python while getting paid so I can use those skills to be used for my personal Futures Trading.

Also, in Australia most of the entry level Python jobs don't specifically ask for degree in comp science, they have broad degree requirements in their job ads e.g. CS, Commerce, Maths, Engineering, IT etc)

[delicate bane]

if you were in the states, i would recommend a masters but they have a ton of those over here. not completely sure how it is over there

<@&831776746206265384> umm

[dark arrow]

!cban 665705171031949372 nsfw

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @pale hill permanently.

[delicate bane]

thank you hsp

[reef kite]

as i understand Graduate degrees and Masters are more of a requirement in the US than Australia.
Bachelors is like the minimum to land a job, but once you have 5 years or so of experience, the degrees you have don't mean as much.
for context (not bragging): I outearned Ca/CPA accountants in my last company and that was while i was finishing my degree.
but i guess i also depends on the specific company/hiring managers

to be fair, those CA/CPA's couldn't speak much english, coulnd't communicate or run meetings/projects and didn't expand any skills in VBA/TM1 or any programming to do basic automation

[smoky quest]

It depends on so many factors. Getting another degree does take time too.

If you have the chops for it, you could give a try to apply to a few positions and see how it goes. Worst case, you learn that you are underprepared and where. Best case, it works out. And targeting finance/commerce related jobs with python can be a good entry point too.

[delicate bane]

i see, interesting

[reef kite]

yea finance/commerce that use Python might be my best bet.

and yes, im hesitant to do a Masters because it is a significant investment of time and money (albeit much cheaper than what you guys pay in USA)

[delicate bane]

yeah i know there were some developer listings over here under some of the big accounting firms where accounting exp was preferred

[reef kite]

yeah, kind of wish i did computer science for bachelors.
to be perfectly honest, I didn't learn much in my commerce degree. I leant 100x more just by practical work experience and google...lol

another reason of being hesitant for a masters
i think they are overrated in Australia (seems to be slightly different to the US where they are almost a minimum requirement to differentiate yourself from other candidates)

@delicate bane @smoky quest
Thanks for the feedback guys. Most appreciated 🙏

[winged moth]

anyone here got any recommendation for a good market trading discord servers?

[true harness]

<@&831776746206265384>

[elfin abyss]

!cban 595079752285552640

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @haughty prawn permanently.

According to the API, your request is malformed.

[elfin abyss]

uh 👀

[void topaz]

Self taught programming
Or
Cs degree
( In India)

What do u prefer?

[peak halo]

I don't know what the job market is like in India, but in the US, self-taught is not always as viable an option as getting a degree.

[burnt fulcrum]

Hey guys
I am a bit confused about the difference bachelors in sofware engineering and computer science.
Is there an advantage in choosing one over the other?

[void topaz]

Hm

[elfin abyss]

Tends to vary a little, but in general computer science is broader because it places more of a focus on theoretical and mathematical stuff, while software engineering is a little more practical

[peak halo]

"computer science", in its truest sense, is actually the theory of what is computable and of algorithms. whereas "software engineering" is about designing and implementing software. computer science as a concept is older than software engineering, though modern computer science degree programs are likely to teach software engineering concepts to one extent or another.

[void topaz]

U r from "Us"?

[peak halo]

by US I mean united states

[void topaz]

At least u get updated syllabus in US college 🙂

[peak halo]

if there's a university that offers both CS and SE, I'd be interested to see the difference between the two programs.

[void topaz]

In india we are learning 8086 processor 🤐

Which is released in 1978

[peak halo]

well, the Turing machine was first theorized in 1936, and it's still the best model of computing 😄

[burnt fulcrum]

from what I have seen, atleast at the university i am looking into, SE has a final honours year and is 4 years long, but CS is only 3 years

[void topaz]

🙂

[burnt fulcrum]

the topics seem to overlap with the two degrees

[peak halo]

how many credits are each program?

[void topaz]

@peak halo are u studying or completed ur degree😊?

[peak halo]

I have a CS degree.

[void topaz]

With any specialization?

[peak halo]

my degree concentration was data science

[burnt fulcrum]

SE is 96 units and CS is 72 units

[void topaz]

Nice

[burnt fulcrum]

although you can do an addition year as honours for CS

but the thing i am most worried about is employability and competition

[peak halo]

interesting. is SE under engineering and CS under humanities/sciences?

[burnt fulcrum]

they are under the same faculty, "Faculty of Engineering, Computer and Mathematical Sciences website"

[void topaz]

My specialization is also data science

[peak halo]

weird

[void topaz]

But ,Ai is new to indian engineering syllabus.

I need ur guidance 😊

[burnt fulcrum]

with your experience as a computer science graduate, would you say that there are jobs which SE graduates are given preference to over CS graduates?

[void topaz]

From which country?

[peak halo]

I don't have an answer for that

[burnt fulcrum]

australia

[void topaz]

Ok

[burnt fulcrum]

anyone in australia know how saturated the market is for software engineers or CS graduates? I would love to know whether you guys think it is a good idea to start a career in software in 2022

[void topaz]

Are you studying or completed ur degree

[smoky quest]

I don't know any country in which it would not be a good idea to start a career in software in 2022

[hollow glade]

How in demand is Python now for careers?

[smoky quest]

it's high

[hollow glade]

I keep hearing it's pretty high yeah, are there any sources that we can see how high demand is that you know of?

[smoky quest]

If you google "popular programming language 2022" (or equivalent), you find python in most of them. Ex: https://bootcamp.berkeley.edu/blog/most-in-demand-programming-languages/

[hollow glade]

I just hear it's competitive to get an entry role, but after getting job experience it's a cake walk

[smoky quest]

google is a great source. Along with job boards like indeed or linkedin

[smoky quest]

It's never a cake walk.

[hollow glade]

lmao I mean in terms of keeping a job or getting a new one after

How long have you been learning python for? I'm 2 months in

[smoky quest]

A while ago 🙂

[smoky quest]

Keep in mind there is more to career than just finding a job. There will be questions in terms of how good of a fit a job will align with your goals, opportunities, compensations, culture, etc.

Finding a job is easy. Growing a career can be take quite a few detours and interesting bets and luck

[void topaz]

Same

[hollow glade]

You think finding an entry level is easy too though? That's the one I hear is the hardest to get if you have no job experience coding prior

[smoky quest]

depends if you have a degree or not.
The students graduating and with good skills can find a job without much trouble

[burnt fulcrum]

what do you define as a good skills?

[smoky quest]

above average :p

[delicate bane]

your portfolio can help you stand out above the average applicant too

for example, dont have a boring and simple CRUD app on there. go further than that.

[smoky quest]

Also the ones with side projects would typically show more experience and better able to answer questions beyond what they memorized from the textbooks

[burnt fulcrum]

Do you guys reccomend joining an academic research lab during software engineering degree?

[smoky quest]

depends on the expected outcome and how it fits with your career

[hard pebble]

what are the jobs for Python programmer

[glacial cave]

Hi. Do you know about online/remote available jobs for python programmers? I'm an Engineer and I use python for developing robotic/mechatronic systems.
Can you share with me them? Thanks.

[dense mesa]

Not allowed in this server, see the pinned messages in this channel

[rough patrol]

Hi This is Milton
I have a question. It may be not like a matured question.

I am doing a Remote job which is about 7+ hours. But i feel depressed rest of the time that i Couldn't utilize others time.
If i start something like research paper reading or doing a problem solve or anything else, i feel stressed and demotivated in the mean 5-6 minutes.

Any expert can guideout me with some effective idea

[dense mesa]

What do you need help with?

[rough patrol]

If i start something, i just get up from that with feed up mode.

I want to know how an Software engineers passed for skill developing

[dense mesa]

Not sure what you're trying to say, do you mean you find it difficult to do side projects outside of your work?

[tall spindle]

uhhh awkward start to a conversation but hi

[simple sphinx]

hello

I am Ali and its nice to meet you guys. From now on I hope we'll have a great journey together

[tall spindle]

[abstract nacelle]

Hallur

[tidal gazelle]

how helpful would python be in finding a future career?

[vapid jay]

kj

[warm gust]

@azure gull yo

[twin dirge]

@azure gull @warm gust This channel is meant for discussion of professional careers in Python. If you want to talk FIFA, we have off-topic channels.

[azure gull]

sry

[warm gust]

okay :)) could u lmk which ones are offtopic channels??

[tidal gazelle]

!ot-names

[inner wren]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:
• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[warm gust]

aight

[vapid jay]

Hey guys, today I was writing on topic of being productive in work in my own server, so I am interested what you think about what I wrote and do you have any other advice and idea how to think better with regards to my work. Context - I am currently in a job where they gave me courses for back end development. Aside I practice DSA problems because I find them interesting and maybe to have appropriate knowledge for getting into FAANG company

I want to be as much as possibly productive at work

I don't want to get to the point of burnout - to not get to that point I will have to relax. I can relax using meditation, run after work every second day and also walk either with friends or family. So I will take care to work maximally 8 or 9 hours and learn about algorithms and data structures for additional two or tree hours, dependently how tired I am.

To be more productive during work, to learn new thing I need mental space, because after some period of work I am in mode where it's hard to get particular insight. In order to have more mental space, I will do little meditations, 3 or 5 minutes. I will do them every 30 minutes. After work, every second day I will run., because running also clears mental space.

To be at peace, I will do these little meditations as I mentioned above, also run. With regards to some unpleasant emotions, like for example anger, when I experience it, if it's possible, first move should be to meditate 3 minutes, more specifically, to pay attention to what I see, hear, smell or what sensations I sense. After those 3 minutes, if I am less under influence of particular unpleasant emotions, I will write shortly about thoughts and emotions that I have in #notions. Then, at night I would try to see which belief I hold that provoced that emotion and thought, and try to see bigger picture - what's right to do in particular situation in which I experienced unpleasant thoughts and emotions. Also it would be good to see why I think in particular unhealthy way. Also, to be more at peace, I should try to be as specific as possible about what I should do in particular day, in what way I should work, see what could stand in the way of achieving something, e.g being distracted by using Reddit.

With regards to thinking better. I should be focused as much as possibly, that means not having any kind of distraction. If I am tired I should relax in some way. I should also use chunking. Sleeping enough is a must.

[buoyant seal]

It sounds like Jedi level thingy
Not really related to being productive in programming

I mean it could be related, but for that matter we could say sleeping is good to be productive anywhere. It is not related to specifics to programming area

[vapid jay]

It sounds like Jedi level thingy
what does that mean?

[buoyant seal]

Philosophy/psychology/partially religious thingy

[vapid jay]

Well, why not mention all things that could are related to being more productive at programming, regardless of whether they can be used to be productive for other things?

[buoyant seal]

It would make sense to say if the article contained domain specific knowledge with a mix of general/global knowledge.
I think your thing is just a bunch of general/global knowledge without any domain(programming) specific knowledge

[vapid jay]

Hey, can we have private conversation and then after our private conversation put here all ideas with regards to my question? Asking because this topic is very important to me and if we have a long conversation there is higher probability that someone will not read that

[buoyant seal]

Nah. I would not like that

[vapid jay]

Okay, then please if you think that you can say anything with regards to my questions, please say it

[buoyant seal]

When someone mentions words productive and backend development, I expect to hear key words Test Driven Development and DevOps.
Both things increase productiveness by magnitude, and multiply their effects with each other

As for less tech side of productiveness... I would prefer to hear of benefits to productiveness from Working From Home Vs Office work

[vapid jay]

Thanks. Can you expand on that? Context: I am currently into back end development with Spring Boot. Trying to learn more about Java and in some recent time start learning about Kotlin. Also, shameful to say, but I don't know anything about testing such as unit or integration tests

[vapid jay]

Yeah I work from home constantly

[buoyant seal]

This book is a good start regarding Testing, start from this and move to recommended there Kent Beck book

In short shorts, than more u have code, then more testing is important to continue coding fast.
But even for short coding it can speed up Development 2-10 times

Without testing coding is doomed to become impossible after certain code size

Because it will require too many things to fit into the head / rechecking program workability

[buoyant seal]

DevOps is meant to automatize the processes of development and testing, specifically regarding cloud infrastructure to which backend is related. We make stuff GitOps, we just push code to git and all the automated testing and deployment happens, removing from us time consumption to boring things, and things with a lot of human factor error. We don't need to remember how to test and Deploy our complex microservices infrastructure any longer

[vapid jay]

move to recommended there Kent Beck book
You mean this book https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnx0ZXN0MTIzNHNpbTQ2NXxneDpiYTJmYWIwYTAyOGJiZmQ ?

[buoyant seal]

Yes, but Don't read as first book. Only after the unit testing first book

[vapid jay]

Interesting

Damn 300 pages is first book 😄

It's fine. If you have any other advices it would be nice to hear.

[buoyant seal]

Sure. Following git best practices is core stone to Testing and DevOps. Consider it as prerequisite

I recommend this visual interactive tutorial.
https://learngitbranching.js.org/

Plus reading somewhere general best practices regarding git usage
https://deepsource.io/blog/git-best-practices/
Those five things should be good enough
Try for them to sink into you, as deep as possible

The last but not least, all code quality things are important to continue development fast. Any code quality stuff is important to continue being productive with code size growth.
But they are a bit numerous to describe

[buoyant seal]

Robert Martin Clean Code will describe to you... How to write the code in a human readable self documented way. It will remove time consumption spent on rereading the code. People say it wastes more than 90% of development time. U will be able to find out what your code does few months later when u forgot how did u code it

[buoyant seal]

Robert Martine Clean architecture and Head First design patterns, will help you to structure your code with the flow of dependencies in the right way to code fast during large code bases too

Just to clarify the most important thing it does to minimise the rippling effect. When for one thing to change u a forced to make a lot of changes across the code of all the application

[tidal gazelle]

How helpful is pyhon in finding careers right now?

[buoyant seal]

easy to check. Open your local hiring web sites
and search Python, then other programming languages. Compare amount of opened job positions and which skills they ask in general

[buoyant seal]

in my local area Python positions amount are equal to Javascript positions amount
And there is no more thing more popular than Javascript. We can say Python shares with Javascript 1-2 place in job popularity in theory

[hearty island]

i really like the sound of this, it's important to be able to handle the heavy workload that our field often brings. i have a feeling that this is more related to productivity in general tho, not coding specifically similar to what darkwind above me said^

[void topaz]

Any data scientist here ?

[buoyant seal]

totally depends on country. And depends even on the region within the country.

The amount can vary strongly.... up to 5 times difference 😉

just google "Python senior developer average salary in Country_Name"

there is no country name like that, it is territory name. Use country name

[eternal mist]

I feel like I asked this before but what is the difference between machine learning and deep learning

[graceful mason]

<@&831776746206265384>

[analog sun]

!cban 922578509581406258 trolling

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @oblique dove permanently.

[vapid jay]

@buoyant seal Thanks for all of your advices! I screenshotted in word document your answers because I wanted to place all kind of different advices on different questions in same word file. Would be nice if you will be here to ask you something more specific when I get more knowledge. Only thing that I would like to ask you about, if that can be answered in general, what are some main things that back end developer needs to know with regards to DevOps, except Git?

[graceful mason]

https://roadmap.sh/backend

[vapid jay]

Thanks!

@graceful mason Btw, are you maybe Spring Boot developer?

[graceful mason]

I'm not

[delicate bane]

try asking in #data-science-and-ml

[vapid jay]

umm, in what are of SWE you work (if you work in that area)?

[graceful mason]

Currently I'm finishing my last year of Comp Sci w/ AI at university, but did 12 months as a embedded developer writing firmware (in C) for autonomous robots and have an offer to work there when I graduate

[vapid jay]

congrats

[chrome yew]

How are the job offers in this area going in your country?

[graceful mason]

not sure I wasn't really searching them out while looking for work, from what I understand there are a lot of embedded positions but I'm not sure about robotics (UK)

[west ruin]

Currently in the field of robotics, graduated with a Computer Engineering degree. Would say the field is poised to explode with the level of needed people for AI as well as making programs to communicate that data to robots.

Most places seem to have a lack of people moreso than a lack of jobs and/or positions

[cosmic sorrel]

Should you wait before or after you get a degree to start looking for coding work?

[dense mesa]

Machine learning ≈ you define some features and optimise a (cost) function based on these features.

Deep learning ≈ throw loads of input data at a certain architecture and try to learn the features from that

[eternal mist]

Deep learning seems easier

[delicate bane]

my friend is doing his phd in robotics and specializes in RL and also says that theres a lack of people in his area

[delicate bane]

you would think so

[eternal mist]

Is it?

I mean deep learning is the craze rn

[delicate bane]

if you say you know DL, the typical follow-up question is: oh whats your specialty? CV? NLP? etc.

and then typically youre expected to know SoTA in that specialty or at least close to it

[eternal mist]

I mean I’m just a newbie researching what I wanna do

[eternal mist]

But yeah I think I’m going to choose computer vision

[delicate bane]

cool. feel free to hang out in #data-science-and-ml

[eternal mist]

Thanks I’ll stay I’ll have lots of questions along the road

[delicate bane]

great. my specialty isnt CV but you can ask me questions if im around

[delicate bane]

if you are new to the world of coding + like visual novels https://freecodecamp.itch.io/learn-to-code-rpg

looks pretty interesting

[buoyant seal]

we need visual novel to testing

we could eliminate the (major part of) bad code all around the world!
Testing isn't everything to fix the bad code, but it could make a huge difference

[delicate bane]

bro make a visual novel about TDD

[reef kite]

Anyone here based in Syd?

[graceful mason]

If you have the opportunity to get an internship I'd really recommend it - nothing benefits you more after you graduate than having concrete experience at a company related to your field. If you aren't able to do that I'd aim to get an unrelated job (tutoring would be great too) and work on personal projects at the same time, provided those projects develop skills that will help you in the future and look good on a CV

[native narwhal]

heya

guys what do you think about job security which particular job has highest chance of surviving evolution...
DataBase Admins lose cuz = autonomus cloud solutions
Web devs lose cuz = no code solutions now offer full stack automated service fe/be
mobile developers lose = everyone has app and its saturated

what do u think? what is future proof?

[near ocean]

I think trying to predict the future is a bit silly
Nothing significant is going to happen in the next 5 years, trying to guess what's gonna happen afterwards is just that, a guess
You wouldnt base your career on a guess, would you?

Webdev is probably never going out of fashion, neither is mobile dev
Database admins will just move onto other fields like managing cloud solutions

[honest goblet]

Hi guys for an online interview how would i dress

i cannot afford a suit and stuff like that and i dont think ill pass anyway would something like a clean polo be fine?

[analog sun]

Yeah just dress sharp, not every workplace requires a suit and tie

[near ocean]

Button down shirt and a nice pair of pants
Jeans can work too if theyre not torn or have blotches or are faded out

[reef kite]

being presentable > suit/tie

agree button up would be fine, especially for online interview

[honest goblet]

i dont have a shirt

i have polos though

[honest pivot]

As the interviewer at my job, I'm wearing a hoodie. I would only expect the applicants not to look sloppy.

[lean moth]

Ai seems to be in a pretty good spot atm

[tulip tree]

can a btec level 5 hnd in computing or software development provide a path to a cs degree?

[near ocean]

go buy a shirt, how can you not have a shirt

[honest goblet]

no money 😦

i literally have £2.70 in my account right now

[near ocean]

how old are you

[honest goblet]

20

[near ocean]

theres shirts at primark that are <£10

[honest goblet]

i could go look for something yeah

[near ocean]

if you have a vest or a neat sweater you could your polo and that over it

[honest goblet]

vest?

i literally only buy polos thats why i was asking about those

but i can maybe go check primark.

[dim loom]

great

[gilded valley]

What Russell group university accepts BTECS? From what I recall 4/5y ago, they all required 3 a levels and most required maths

[delicate bane]

UK education system is so interesting

[tulip tree]

would it work with when doing the btec level 3 extnd with no a-levels and a level 5 hnd

I'm doing a btec level 3 extended in IT

universities in Manchester and Edinburgh

Manchester uni says on for it's entry requirements that it accepts btec level 3 extended in combination with an A-level but it doesn't say anything about level 5 HND - https://www.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/2023/00560/bsc-computer-science/entry-requirements/#alternative-entry-requirements

even with a level 5 HND in computing, I'll still need an A-level in math?

[vapid jay]

What do tech companies look at when they want to hire someone?

[peak halo]

for what kind of position?

[vapid jay]

Software engineer

[peak halo]

for entry-level positions? in what country?

@vapid jay in this channel, it's helpful to be specific about your circumstances (general location, positions you're applying for, prior experience/education) as advice varies widely depending on each of those variables.

[vapid jay]

Let’s say it’s my first ever job applying at for any tech job in the US nd im 21

In a broad form what will they look at

[peak halo]

@vapid jay do you have a degree?

[vapid jay]

I don’t yet @peak halo

[peak halo]

are you currently pursuing one, and if so, in what?

[vapid jay]

I’m not pursuing one rn because I’m not sure what to go for yet I’m trying to narrow things down that’s y I asked that qestion

[peak halo]

you should probably get a computer science degree, then

[brazen lagoon]

skills, knowledge, experience - you have none, so your own projects

[vapid jay]

That’s what I thought too I also hope I get promoted for a project engineer idk something on top

Also what language should I focus on if I want to work in the big tech companies

[vapid jay]

No projects yet but I’m working on it

[peak halo]

it depends on what kind of developer you want to be. there's a lot of different branches within "software engineer". the ability to develop certain kinds of things is ultimately going to be more important than levels of proficiency in different languages, however.

[delicate bane]

everyone wants to work at the big tech companies huh? i dont tho

[pine cove]

Hey guys, if i wanna dive into python domain and work in it, what tech stack should i learn along with it?

[near ocean]

Probably JS and a relevant framework

Some mongo familiarity as well as an rdbms wouldn't hurt

[delicate bane]

seems practical https://careers.google.com/how-we-hire/#step-your-resume

[vapid jay]

I am an experienced Full Stack & Blockchain developer
Success is my first guide to life and business.
Experienced industry:
SaaS, E-commerce, Booking, NFT marketplace, Defi, dApp, gaming platform, Metaverse, etc.

Skills include, but not limited to:
Front End

• HTML/CSS/Javascript/Typescript
• Bootstrap/Tailwind CSS/Material UI/Vue storefront UI, Vuetify, etc
• React/Next/Gatsby, Vue/Nuxt.
• Web3, Ethers.js, Three.js, D3.js, WebGL, GSAP, etc.
• GraphQL, Restful API

Blockchain

• Hardhat, Truffle, IPFS, Pinata.
• Solidity, Rust, PyTeal, Reach

Backend

• Node, Express, Python, Flask, PHP.
• Firebase, MongoDB, MySQL, PostgreSQL.

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
However this is not a recruiting channel.

[peak halo]

@vapid jay why have you posted this? this reads sort of like a resume, and we don't allow recruiting/job hunting here.

[ivory talon]

(...not the first time they posted this either)

[near ocean]

Theyre "offering services"

[peak halo]

!tempban 868093793788903454 "2 weeks" It appears that you're only here to post your resume and not to engage in any sort of discussion.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @errant bloom until <t:1649702621:f> (13 days and 23 hours).

[near ocean]

Which is honestly a pretty bad sell
I dont care what you think you know, i want to see what you've done in the past instead

[peak halo]

Please resume on-topic discussion 👍🏻

[near ocean]

Something for people building their resume, a whole lot of buzzwords arent going to impress anyone

[delicate bane]

for sure

[peak halo]

but then how did I get a job when my resume just said "big data ai nlp deep learning tensorflow"?

[delicate bane]

thats the entire resume, only those 7 words

[smoky quest]

Sounds like the omelette du fromage for recruiters

[peak halo]

I don't purport to know anything about cybersec, so at that point I would have also needed to include blockchain sql nosql agile scrum c c++ java go julia nim perl

[delicate bane]

and cobol

what other red flags do you guys see on resumes? i feel like its more "i know when i see it" type of stuff

[near ocean]

I confess, i actually had a list of buzzwords on my cv
Times are rough, do whatever it takes for the cv to be looked at by an actual person

It was at the very top right under my contact info, dont think i have it there anymore
I guess it worked tho

[honest pivot]

SQL and NoSQL, that's literally everything right there

[delicate bane]

honestly i feel like you almost have to at least have some buzzwords for online systems since many use ATS nowadays

[delicate bane]

bro now theres NewSQL
jk i have not heard anyone actually talking about these

[honest pivot]

Pretty sure everyone has a "skills/ technologies" area that is basically a list of buzzwords. What's tough is trying to guess how irrelevant of a buzzword you need to include to get through the system, like MS Word or something.

[delicate bane]

yeah and im sure every company's ATS system is dif too

[delicate bane]

although i have heard good things about CockroachDB tho

[near ocean]

Ultra specific buzzwords are a red flag imo
Some dude came in for an interview and on his skills section he had vlookup, hlookup

[delicate bane]

but not xlookup

[honest pivot]

And if I were being totally honest, I wouldn't actually include MS Word as one of my skills. Like, I can type words into a document, sure. But Word has a ton of features I have absolutely no idea how to use.

[delicate bane]

what if by putting MS Word you get negative points from the ATS system?

[near ocean]

Basic office literacy isnt even a skill anymore, its as fundamental as breathing

[honest pivot]

I've heard of incompetent HR departments appending a standard set of required skills to every job listing, and people being filtered out for neglecting to mention that they have basic Office competency

[delicate bane]

thats wild

[summer roost]

Would you want to work at a company with such an incompetent HR department?

[peak halo]

well, what if it's only the HR department that's incompetent?

[summer roost]

If they're bad at hiring people, they've probably hired bad people

I've never seen a company where HR was so dysfunctional as to toss out a resume for a software developer because it doesn't mention MS Word but the rest of the company was staffed with competent, happy people

[smoky quest]

If that was the case, then product/eng/r&d would tell them to gtfo

[delicate bane]

[vapid jay]

hello everyone, what advice would you have for a soon-to-graduate student looking for a job as a python developer for the first time?

[honest pivot]

Of course not. But many people out there just need a job

[thick hawk]

Anyone switched a career here?

[peak halo]

you'll get better responses if you say why you're asking.

[smoky quest]

be proactive for your future

[vapid jay]

Do you have any tips for host project ?

[smoky quest]

What does that mean? What is a host project?

[vapid jay]

for example, I create in my spare time projects under django. I would like to deploy them but given the prices, I was wondering if you didn't know of sites where it could be free etc. for example haha

[smoky quest]

That is a great question but not on topic for this channel which is about #career-advice .
You may want to try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

ok i will ask the question there thank you :D

[thick hawk]

Try 1 .. Anyone switched career into software engineering? I wanted to ask because I am attempting to switch career, and seeking a path to work towards. 😄

[brittle thorn]

Not unless upper management is incompetent too and does nothing

[rustic schooner]

What do you exactly mean with this?

[smoky quest]

then that would go back to square one where HR is not the only incompetent department

[smoky quest]

it means to not wait and go ahead of the problems, be it taking care of your health, career, retirement, savings, etc.

[rustic schooner]

Thanks for the clarification

[brittle thorn]

Heard that first with the 7 habits fad

[summer roost]

I know people who have successfully transitioned from data analysis roles into software dev, and from theoretical physics, but the path for each is different. What's your background? What work do you do today?

[thick hawk]

Thank you! Education background: accounting. Worked for a national accounting firm for 2 years as auditor. Worked as financial analyst for couple years. now data analyst in compensation for less than a year. I want to either become a web dev or android mobile dev. let me know if you have any tips. Initially, I just want to be close and good at computer programming. Then I realize, learning on the job would be the quickiest way to pick up the knowledge plus you get paid. Hey, this is 21st century, I want to learn the "new" stuff. sounds cliche but it is what it is... So any suggestions mate?

[desert granite]

I don't have experience LOL but I'm learning

[brittle thorn]

Do it as a hobby first make a few apps and sites ... learning on the job is a sink or swim ...moar stress for you but moar motivation perhaps... many will take the less risky candidate with a few projects to show...

[thick hawk]

Thank you man! I never thought about becoming a software developer in like the next months or even year. but hopefully I can gain a solid foundation with some projects to show before really make a leap. you are right! I'd like to learn how to swim and swim well before jumping into the water. I took cs50 up till week5 and completed the course in C. then here comes python, so I decided to switch to self studying cs61a where I hope to gain a solid foundation, plus the course is taught in Python.. I did dream of being a software developer in my bed at night sometimes hahahaha.. stress isn't a issue for me, I was stressed at my previous job all day everyday. I just hope I don't get lost in the ocean. so some recommendations would be greatly appreciated to point a direction for me.

[summer roost]

I'd suggest looking for a job that's in the finance or financial tech area. Banks, hedge funds, financial analysis, etc. Somewhere where your existing financial background will be an asset.

[thick hawk]

Yes sir, Aiming for a developer job at a bank would my ultimate goal 😄

[latent geyser]

Hi guys. I'm not entirely sure if this is the right channel to ask, but recently got an intern for a software developing company. I'm a sophomore in high school and I've been learning Python for about 2 months now. Our school hosted a job fair and I figured it wouldn't hurt to apply to one of the jobs because there would be no negatives, and it seems it payed off because I was able to get accepted into this excellent opportunity. But the issue arises that I am hardly proficient in work level Python, and the company barely even uses Python. So I was wondering if I should put Python on pause to learn the used languages in the intern like JS, or should I keep on working on Python, or should I work on both? If I put Python on pause, would a lot of the muscle memory I've been developing disappear?

I am also very confident I would be able to learn the used material because the schedule of when I start the intern is flexible, plus I think I'd be able to grind it out

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't worry too much.
The main things to pick up are around the algorithm and critical thinking.
You may forget a few things around the syntax of the language, but nothing you can't pick back up very quickly.

So I would focus on js since it appears to be what you will be using during your internship, and then come back to python since you still have plenty of time. If anything, it will help you contrast their differences and similarities

[latent geyser]

Yeah you're so right now that i think about it that way. I have lots of time to learn Python, like years, but JS should be learnt for the internship which is much sooner. Thank you a lot!

[static lily]

Im new to this discord server. Im self taught i don't have any certificates or degrees for CS or Python. I have a few years of Python experience what are good carrer paths for Python?

[smoky quest]

That is a question google will be great at. Making a full list takes time and effort, especially if you want it backed up by numbers.
So the first result from google gives: https://medium.com/edureka/python-career-opportunities-a2500ce158de

[static lily]

Thanks

[delicate bane]

dw you will find they can both complement each other. as im learning js rn after experience with python

[buoyant seal]

if u a in web dev, learning js is unavoidable requirement 😉 At least basics of it

[vapid jay]

hello friends, do you think it's a good idea to leave after my diploma in australia, find a job as a developer in python if possible to improve your skills as a developer and in English? knowing that I come from a French-speaking country

[south oracle]

\lock

[last yarrow]

suppp

[vapid jay]

Do we have any channel or someone know a server where one can discuss about internship, college job n all??
This one ig contain all programming stuff!

[dense mesa]

This is a career discussion channel :)

[vapid jay]

Alright! I want opinion of y'll correct me if I am wrong.
If one is a freelancer their clients are best found in Instagram or linkden while for job website and linkden is best right???

[fading flame]

hey!
what coding languages is used to create websites?

[peak halo]

That would be a question for #web-development. This channel is for talking about job stuff.

[left cradle]

I would love to be a sde

[half flax]

html, css for design, and you can use python for functions

theres plenty others though

[peak halo]

@shadow zenith we don't allow recruitment on this server, so I had to remove your message. Feel free to re-introduce yourself without that part of the message. Otherwise, welcome to our community.

Also, feel free to give general job-hunting advice, but we wouldn't allow anything that's aimed at bringing people into your specific company.

[primal plover]

What would be a good channel to discuss Syslog and RabbitMQ stuff?

[gilded valley]

#tools-and-devops

[primal plover]

Thanks!

[left cradle]

what all discussions do we do here

[vapid jay]

Guys I need some help

[peak halo]

If this is a programming question, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[peak halo]

discussion about Python in professional settings. it tends to mostly be job hunting advice.

[left cradle]

wow ,so can i know about the opportunities we have

[left cradle]

i have learnt python up an intermediate level

[peak halo]

this channel isn't for recruiting, so we don't "have opportunities". I recall you saying that you wanted to work as a software engineer. what level of education do you have? do you have prior work experience of any kind?

[final beacon]

For employers, are certificates going to be valued more than a good github?

[smoky quest]

nope. Certificates aren't well known, including their content and their worth

[rustic cosmos]

Hello the word , my name is dark_hi . How are you ?

[ocean tiger]

yoo peoples if anyone know about computer science (cs) all type of fields dm me i have some queries for admission related process

[near ocean]

just ask here, pretty much no one is going to bother to message a stranger

[lavish monolith]

I have two resumes that I would like to get reviewed. Both of them got 75+ scores on resume worded but I would like to know if they are good enough to be used for applying to jobs:

Resume 1: https://imgur.com/DVow0vm
This is related to roles that involve Python and/ or computer vision

Resume 2: https://imgur.com/eXfTLDs
This is related to roles that involve Android app development

[smoky quest]

fyi, you forgot to remove your linkedin and gh accounts which point to your name

[lavish monolith]

yeah I don't care about that to tbh

I just want to hide my number and email

[smoky quest]

sure.

Overall looks great. Some nitpicks:

• The vertical bar on the left are distracting
• Both versions are fine, but I would have a bias towards something that sorts of includes both as while the first one describes more what it does, the second one has more info about the how and technologies used

[delicate bane]

hmm yeah what if you made the vertical bar much lighter

[graceful mason]

You mentioned making a program in C, do you know it enough to list it at the top?

[lavish monolith]

last time I programmed in C was 2018

[smoky quest]

oh also:

• anything on your resume is fair game for questions
• In terms of tooling, I truly don't care if you know pycharm, eclipse or other IDE. I would care a lot more if you know some cool library or database or other important technologies

[lavish monolith]

would it make sense to mention commonly used libraries such as numpy, matplotlib, python-opencv etc? At my current job, I also use some obscure but useful libraries such as python-fcl (for collision detection between ellipsoids), folium, networkx, and Shapely

[smoky quest]

Personally, I have one master resume with everything on it. And then I trim it to only the relevant stuff for a given job. Interviewers won't care about libraries/tools that are not relevant to them

[livid glade]

guys what do you think the best way to build your fundamental skills ?

[smoky quest]

depends on your situation and age

[livid glade]

grade 11 high school student, fairly high achieving student with an extreme case of imposter syndrome

[smoky quest]

• Then aim for college. That's the easiest and safest route for a career in CS
• You can read books and practice. There are also some youtube channels and blogs, but I don't know any to recommend

[livid glade]

I don't really care about getting into a competitive college, but I know I'll be able to get into an above average college with very minimal effort. Honestly being expected to want to get into a massive college when I care very little about it is very mentally draining so I choose to just try to focus on my hobbies

Every other student seems to be doing pretty much everything, every project, every position, activity all for college, which to me seems pretty impossible and I can't see myself doing that

And I just hope that colleges understand that.
Any specific topic that you think is worth exploring?

[forest nymph]

explore anything but web dev. web dev is the new programming version of nursing.

did u get into cs because u liked it? or did u come here bc it was a career path

[smoky quest]

Employers won't care as much about your hobbies. They will care you do have a degree.
Whether you go to a famous college or not does not matter as much (ie. it does for some things like a better professional network) as the fact of having a degree

[smoky quest]

In general, going to the professional world means people don't care about you specifically. Thinking others will be very mindful of your hobbies and the fact you don't want to put much effort could be interpreted as self centered.
So your career path will reflect the amount of work and effort you put in, because why would they pay you more or hire you specifically when they have 100 of other candidates who have spent more efforts than you and have better projects to show?
In the grand scheme of things, it won't be the end of the world for you as CS is still a pretty good career and people are well compensated, but you should also recognize it will have an impact on the type of career you will have

[delicate bane]

do you like games? this one in particular addresses imposter syndrome and can help you learn about the field as a whole https://freecodecamp.itch.io/learn-to-code-rpg

(i know, i know but like hear me out i think its actually pretty good for beginners after trying it)

[smoky quest]

In terms of topics to explore, it's the best time to figure out what you like or dislike. So try all sorts of things, from games and the link Rex put above, to making websites, mobile app and even robots

[livid glade]

I found myself a bit hooked into ML, but it's unfortunately very math heavy and needs quite a bit of advanced math knowledge

I like math, but I unfortunately just haven't gotten to do the various math courses you get to do in college

it's quite a bit frustrating that I have to focus on school, when I could be self studying everything on my own

[smoky quest]

There are some books you could look at. I have found https://www.amazon.com/Hands-Machine-Learning-Scikit-Learn-TensorFlow-dp-1492032646/dp/1492032646/ is nice to get started with, but the channel #data-science-and-ml also have a few resources linked

[livid glade]

Oh I already bought a book called deep learning with python

[smoky quest]

the manning one?

[livid glade]

yeah, the framework that it uses to teach ML is tensorflow, specifically keras (the author is the creator of keras). But I just found out that tensor flow is rapidly dying out in the research community and being replaced by pytorch :kekHands:

[smoky quest]

yeah, I have read the book too. It's a great one as well.
That's fine if it gets replaced, the principles still apply

[livid glade]

yeah they should be, the book mainly uses keras as a template to teach the concepts I think

[smoky quest]

but yeah, that's why school and college is important since they will give you the fundamentals to deal with these topics

[livid glade]

ooor I could self study them now

[smoky quest]

you will see the math behind the error code correction (ex: how to survive the scratches in the old CDs) or even how jpg compression works

and since it's very much applied, it makes the math more interesting and easier to follow

[livid glade]

I already tackled a bunch of these problems on my own, like using PCA or clustoring algorithms to compress images

[smoky quest]

that's great!

[tribal orchid]

#☕help-coffee <

[plucky karma]

Anyone hiring entry level python dev? DM me.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Your question has nothing to do with careers, and thus makes you look like you are just spamming random people for your own benefit

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This channel is for discussions about careers and there are no hiring or recruitment ads. If you are looking for a job, indeed or linkedin would be much better places

[pure raft]

What do y’all think about this? Accurate, or not??

[near ocean]

not accurate, not even good advice
if youre in college/uni for CS dont drop out so you could "build things", you could do that on the side literally like everyone else

[honest pivot]

Do not trust anyone who advises you to blanket reject academia

[bitter bloom]

yes it is

[brittle thorn]

I built things while in school as extracurricular thing (library system, touch screen info kiosk) for the school and even got hired by the school as a dev later on.

[honest pivot]

What does that have to do with my comment?

[visual canyon]

guys im 16 rn but im trying to freelance as a front end developer help please

[dense mesa]

Interested to know why you think that

[brittle thorn]

Trying to point out academia can be a good thing lmao supporting your arguement...but that was just one anecdote

[slender ferry]

Hello , please I needed someone skilled with automation Python bots

[forest lantern]

Hello!

[stray cipher]

Hello!

[lilac oracle]

Hello!

[fallen wharf]

no

[delicate bane]

looks fake imo

[eternal mist]

Bro everyone opting for DL now

IMHO im not gonna be surprised if iit becomes outsourced when I come to the industry

which will be in like 7 years

[empty depot]

hello anyone know any fun ways to learn and code python? right now im taking a college class but i want to practice some outside assignments too. coding is great

[peak halo]

you might try code combat: https://codecombat.com/

[empty depot]

oh cool! ty bro

[dense mesa]

Transfer learning is basically just outsourcing DL

[analog sun]

Hello, this is off topic for this channel. Please do not solicit our members or advertise in the future.

[umbral topaz]

guys i need help

[peak halo]

you have to ask a question to get help. this channel is for career discussion, so you might refer to #❓｜how-to-get-help. Remember to ask a question, and not if anyone is available or if they know about a certain topic.

[plucky cypress]

Someone please explain to me how a junior software dev job specifically for people without a CS background is paying 33% more than any other graduate job in my city

And yes, I did just spend an hour filling in the application before I realised it asked for non-CS background and now I want to cry

[peak halo]

did they say why they don't want people with a CS background?

[plucky cypress]

Got so excited at the potential of £40k a year straight out of uni, I swear I'd planned the next 2 years of my life out whilst filling in that application

[plucky karma]

Just go into the interview and request the salary you want. Then negotiate

Someone offered me $21 an hour and I laughed at them.

[plucky cypress]

Doesn't say anywhere, just says they specifically want no one currently studying or about to graduate and minimal experience in programming

[plucky karma]

Then they came back with $15+ more per hour...

[peak halo]

that's not the same thing as not wanting people with a CS background. it means that they don't want to hire someone who is about to graduate or recently graduated.

but my experience finding a first job was difficult and emotionally exhausting, yes.

[plucky karma]

Most people dread hiring complete noobs.

But, it should be done more frequently than it is.

The problem is, everyone wants to get paid high with little experience. The less experience one has, the less productive they are for the company anyways.

Hiring too many developers also leads to less productivity.

[plucky cypress]

Not even wanting to be paid high, I'd just like a job that reflects that 4 years of university that I've gone through that actually gives me a disposable income

Most of the ones here are offering £25k graduate salary. If I went full time at my part time retail job that I've had during uni, I'd be on £22k

Yes, there's a completely different level of progression available in software compared to retail but £3k difference? Not exactly great for a masters degree and 6+ years of programming

[balmy vine]

Which country is best for remote job for a gmt+6 time zone resident?

[plucky karma]

Wait, you are a non-tech major?

[plucky cypress]

Nah, masters degree in CS/Maths

[plucky karma]

You are telling me you can't work for Amazon?

[forest nymph]

something isnt adding up here

[plucky karma]

With an basic understanding of Algorithms you could work there

[plucky cypress]

It's what I can get for location. Dream city, but it's either whatever work they have there or look for remote opportunities. You guys think I'm low balling my experience maybe?

[plucky karma]

Unless you live in a basement and haven't seen a human being in 6 years

[forest nymph]

this might be the missing piece of information

[plucky karma]

100%

[plucky cypress]

Well shit. This has ended up being quite uplifting

[plucky karma]

Did you use github at uni?

[plucky cypress]

Not as part of the degree but I made sure I learnt that and good code readability in my own time

[plucky karma]

Look at my commit history the last 6 weeks https://github.com/bltomlin

That's how you should get yours to look

[forest nymph]

you dont need github commit history to get a job in cs

[plucky karma]

It would be easier to tell the interviewer to pull it up

Let them chew on a preview of what you can do on your own

[plucky cypress]

Are you about to tell me that interview questions look like your random Python exercises repo?

[plucky karma]

Nah. Ignore that. It's the commit history and activity that can help.

It's just proof that you work..

[forest nymph]

proof comes during the interview when u solve a hard problem with the interviewer

[true harness]

work on... checking if a year is a leap year... right

[true harness]

are you using git? your commit messages are the default from when you're editing files on GitHub 😳

[forest nymph]

ooooo000OoooooooOO

[plucky karma]

I use terminal to make commits, but havent' spent a ton of time doing stuff outside of commits

[true harness]

you don't make commit messages? or change the commit title?

[plucky karma]

No.

[forest nymph]

git commit -m “please hire me i am using git daily”

[plucky karma]

Just so we are clear, I wasn't suggesting that you could do that and get a job. But a guy with a Masters building decent projects on GH could have a great shot at getting a job..

[plucky cypress]

Okay, I'll throw this out there. My three main projects currently are full automation of a web-based game using Selenium, generating university timetables using genetic algorithms and just for fun but not hugely complete, custom programming language that I've got everything up to classes and objects implemented in. I've been thinking I had a pretty standard graduate coding level but I'm now starting to think maybe I'm slightly underballing my skills after this convo

[forest nymph]

agreed

[gilded valley]

The commit history graph thing in and of itself proves absolutely nothing. Someone committing rubbish every day would make it look "good".

To judge someone's skills based on a public GH profile, you need to dig deeper than that - doing things like glancing through their repos and looking at the kinds of commits they make. And on that front, none of your GH profile seems to be overly effective at inspiring confidence.

[forest nymph]

tbh it could also be that your resume is shite and not getting thru screening process. need to show off more

[true harness]

but why, how are you committing from the terminal without that. you have to be deliberately avoiding editing a message

[sharp thunder]

Is there a minimum amount of projects to do in order to get a shot in junior python developer? I have no experience in it but self taught and just started doing projects in my GitHub

[plucky karma]

I'll put something generic like 'solved', as I am mostly making commits on solved problems from a learning tool.

[forest nymph]

he is the Inquisitor do not question his motives

[plucky karma]

On project work, I'll admit, I have been a bit lazy.

[gilded valley]

"your commit history should look like mine" just seems like outright bad advice to me.

[true harness]

I'm looking at HonestCalculator, it's all just either "Initial commit", "Create x", or "Update x" which are just the defaults from gh

[plucky karma]

Correct. On project work, I'll admit, I have been a bit lazy.

I mostly do stuff after work and after I put my kids to sleep and am exhausted.

[forest nymph]

implement an algorithm that proves the existence of bigfoot. that will get u hired

[plucky karma]

Or disproves

[forest nymph]

nope we all want to believe

[plucky karma]

do we?

[eternal mist]

If you want to get into DL. You must specialize in something correct

[plucky karma]

Implement an algorithm that proves that, and your hired.

[analog sun]

I think we are getting a bit off topic here.

[plucky karma]

My point is, aside from the major criticism I received on my personal GH, which is helpful.. is that you underball yourself

[forest nymph]

mods dont like bigfoot. typical

[plucky karma]

You have skills if you made it out of grad school. Be confident and assertive when speaking to interviewers.

[plucky karma]

I do think you can see someone evolve from bad to great on Github

[gilded valley]

I think you might be right - but if I'm an employer, I have a bunch of applicants, the first look at a Github is going to be something like 30s - so you kind of need the first things you see to be actually pretty decent
assuming you're trying to use GH to differentiate yourself

[plucky karma]

That and use it to motivate myself. I basically have been getting by on 'make a commit a day".

[analog sun]

Sure we do...in the off topic channels

[gilded valley]

yeah, that's a useful tool for you then - I'm very bad at finding ways to motivate myself, that kind of gamification is definitely a useful strategy

[plucky karma]

There is a condition to the commit a day for me personally. The commit must solve a problem.

[robust frigate]

any experienced backend devs wanna partner up with me on a cool crypto data website?

if u got the spare time

[plucky karma]

what is the stack?

[robust frigate]

I am a frontend react dev, so, frontend would be react and backend would be python, (i dont know python) worked a bit with it in university and know python has some great data libraries

backend stack is up to whoever would like to get involved

im bored out of my mind at work and want to work on this project in my spare time but need a backend dev to handle login stuff and all that backend jazz

[dense mesa]

Only £25k for SWE?

[plucky karma]

Sounds like you'd want someone knows Node.js and MaangoDB

[dense mesa]

No

[robust frigate]

why?

its gong to onvolve heavy api usage of all crypto coins

[eternal mist]

I mean like when you want to get a job that heavily uses deep learning, most require you to specialize in CV or NLP of something along the lines

[dense mesa]

I think you should look more into what deep learning is, and why people use it

[plucky karma]

Ah.

Sorry, I wasn't thinking about the libraries available in python.

[robust frigate]

interested in knowing more about project?

i jsut changed my username and profile pic btw

[vapid jay]

hi does anyone know how i can make my script run at startup | with a python script

[plucky karma]

Not at this time.

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel, try #unix

[eternal mist]

I mean if I can remeber correctly someone in this server said that whenever deep learning is mentioned it usually correleats to ones specific specialty

[smoky quest]

deep learning is a tool, no different than linear regression.
It's complex and can do a lot of things, but it's still a tool. The same way java and python are tools.

What companies care about are getting shit done, and that is typically related to a domain such as CV, NLP or having backends working for their web/mobile app.
So to that end, the tools are used in conjunction with a domain.

In addition, the building blocks for your deep learning models may look different depending on domain you use them in

[smoky quest]

This looks like a virus. Don't click on it

[delicate bane]

@smoky quest whats your view on technical PM roles? im assuming these tend to be like Product roles except you usually see them at SaaS companies? trying to figure out if i like product or not

[smoky quest]

I have no specific views on that other than like any role, it can be fun if you vibe in it.

They are typically in SaaS companies because the products there tend to be more technical and thus require more technical skills.

[smoky quest]

Do you like understanding why people use a product? What they care about or not?
Do you like pouring over usage data and building dashboard and funnels to understand better where your usage drop and what part of your product is more used?

[delicate bane]

i see, i will have to explore this. thank you

[smoky quest]

as a role, it's pretty wide.
You may end up helping with the PMM side or even doing it yourself (ie. writing blog posts, coordinating with docs), and doing all sorts of odd jobs (helping with ux/ui, writing blog posts, writing docs, recording demos, going on twitch/youtube/meetup, etc.)

There can be a nice blend between setting some direction (you are accountable for the product usage after all) and supportive role (you would have to step in to help the engineers in non-engineer related tasks)

All of this assuming that the P in technical PM stands for Product, not Project

[delicate bane]

yes

def something to put on my radar maybe after i spend some time with dev work and seeing how i like that as well

[smoky quest]

yeah, it's common for engineers to transition to (T)PM

[delicate bane]

im curious how this compares to being an Engineering Manager

[smoky quest]

Product -> focuses on the WHAT
Engineer -> focuses on the HOW

So in that sense, the EM will focus on the meta level of a team:

• How to organize the work
• How people coordinate with themselves
• Is accountable for the delivery

And there may be some intersection with more technical aspects:

• May mentor engineers, including pr reviews, design sessions, splitting work stream in small chunks, pairing sessions...
• Actively contribute code

And there may also be some intersection with a PM, or even just be part of the role

These roles don't have strict boundaries. The boundaries will depend on the company, the people (some people are very much enthusiastic about X, some people are stronger on the process side VS the technology side), the team, the culture, the needs for the current scale of the org...

[dense mesa]

Product management is the best one 👍

[pure raft]

To everyone who responded to my post earlier I’m glad y’all think so. I just submitted my first of a batch of applications to return to school and I found that post to be severely strange and misleading, but again I don’t even know half of half of what y’all here know.

[crisp jackal]

Do jobs request transcripts?

[delicate bane]

sometimes. idk why. my current internship did

[late monolith]

Any opportunities to look for as a Junior in hs?

[eternal mist]

Do beginner hackathons

I’m going to participate in one soon

[marsh wind]

Our company keep calling everyone project managers even if I have 100% tech background I participate a lot in DB and app arch and this kind of shit.

I would rather qualify myself as PO probably and not PM. Although even that probably isn't accurate

[smoky quest]

yeah, I think it's more of a US vs EU thing

[forest nymph]

Best way to get into this field, is to start with hobby based programming. From this, youll gain friends and contacts naturally, and grow ur skills at same time. Eventually youll figure out what ur good at and what u suck at. This paves the way to true growth and long term career.

Almost all successful developers I know, started just "doing it". Then came the school and jobs. Same as being a pro basketball player. They all started, playing with their buddies in the backyard court at 10 years old. There was no "I GOTTA TRAIN FOR THE NBA" ... just bball.

[late monolith]

I'm already kind of in-deep (I've been coding for as long as I can remember), so that's not the biggest issue for me. It's more about how I can channel the passion into a more productive sphere. The biggest projects I've been able to work on so far are 1) Robotics (for which I'm Software lead for Robot and Application development) and 2) an electronic walking stick that me and a few friends are working on as something to help people with sight loss

[forest nymph]

Oh awesome. Thats alot of stuff for a high schooler. Well done

[late monolith]

Thanks, but is there a way to do.... more?

[smoky quest]

You are doing great so far!
The main route is to explore and go deep as you are doing while in HS and then aim for a CS degree in college/university

[safe loom]

What do you think about consulting firms and getting experience there? So far I’ve been unlucky and my whole family wants me dead just for struggling.

[smoky quest]

As long as they provide the right kind of experience, sure

[safe loom]

I don’t want to sound like a job hooker but if I can’t have any viable means then I guess I have no choice but to submit to their shitty practices.

[smoky quest]

Also pretty much the whole IT industry in france is about SS2I/ESN

[forest nymph]

Based on how ur saying this, seems to me: you dont know exactly where to go but u know CS is your future. Time to explore all the corners of CS then. Are you interesting in security research? big data? computer vision? game dev? You wont know until you get some broader experience. I think university will help alot with showing you whats out there -- youll naturally gravitate. As for doing more, now, sure: tons of programming sites, I call them "skill sharpeners" (leetcode, codesignal, hackerrank), also will be worth your time to just literally read textbooks about interesting cs concepts. Youd be surprised how many fun rabbit holes ull go down

[safe loom]

Yeah I’ve been trying to get into a foreign mission program since I haven’t hit up my 29th birthday yet and temporary missions alongside these guys might be bearable. Besides, the other companies in France that aren’t consulting are more selective :I

[late monolith]

I'm really looking down full-stack or cybersecurity development right now. I competed in picoCTF this year, (despite how shitty I did) it was some of the most fun I had coding, in terms of full-stack, I built a mean stack site for my school's chess team. Are there any good "skill sharpeners" for these (I'm assuming hackerrank is for cybersecurity/ethical hacking)?

[forest nymph]

Oh man. You need to head here, and start your hacking journey:
pwnable.kr

Pwnable KR will get you into the deep end, immediately. There is an IRC server with the developers, if u need guidance.

Hackerrank is for algorithm and data structures practice. IMO only useful for passing interviews. But still helpful for practicing thinking and being faster at matching problems to solutions

[smoky quest]

There is also codingame which is more gamified than leetcode and may be more fun to get started

[safe loom]

Yeah

[late monolith]

thank you all so much!

[dense mesa]

What type of consulting?

[safe loom]

Either as a data engineer or data analyst. They’re mostly looking for that kind of gig.

[forest nymph]

Last tidbit: I recommend going down the security route instead of "full stack". To exploit bugs, you need to truly know your stuff. This will bring u into really low level details of how computers work, and suddenly you realize uve become a computer scientist in the process. Full stack dev, to me, is more like putting legos together of products that people have already built.

[dense mesa]

Not sure I understand you, how are you going to consult while being a data engineer or data analyst?

[safe loom]

You do consulting for the client. You’re assigned with a mission which most likely aims to improve their insurance software

[dense mesa]

That sounds like contract work to me. In the UK at least, consulting is usually helping a company solve a business problem by advising them on what to do, not actually doing it yourself

[noble oriole]

He guys, what does a "roboticist" software engineer do? I came across this job but offers no description. It's under "software engineer" section.

Is it an integrated field of electronics and AI?

[graceful mason]

Your best answer will be whatever the ad says (if the ad is empty I'd probably not apply) but is likely synonymous with a mechatronics/robotics engineer where you are involved with all steps of designing a robot including mechanical design, sensors/actuators, control systems, and the firmware.
It depends on the company but in general electronics will be handled by a specialised team and there won't be any AI involved

[stiff olive]

Hey,
Myself Praveen. I am a Jr. Developer with 1.8 years of experience looking for new opportunities to contribute and learn myself. If anyone have projects and tasks please ping me I can contribute.
Thanks.

[void topaz]

Hi

[dense moth]

I struggle with C++ more than I do python. I like python more but I also like challenges. While python is challenging, C++ Is even more challenging (imo) so do I choose the one that I like more, or the one that’s more challenging.

[near ocean]

no reason why you cant do both? youre not going to get far knowing a single language anyway

[peak halo]

most would agree that C++ is more difficult to write in than Python, but it's also intended for different use cases.

[marsh wind]

I am not sure really. Feels more like our management who does not want to bother with making a difference between different management/lead roles

[subtle tulip]

Hey

[analog sun]

Hello, please don't post unapproved advertisements and please respect the channel topic.

[orchid cape]

Hey everyone!

[mystic breach]

goodmorning/afternoon, everyone. im trying to learn programming/coding do you have recommendation on where to start? i just started to learn on freecodingcamp website.

[dense mesa]

@mystic breach great to hear, this channel is for career discussion though. Ask about the server resources in #python-discussion

[dusky river]

Do you know some countries that gives great offers for software engineering ? I'm french and I don't feel like staying here for my job

[smoky quest]

USA for one. UK is also on the higher side

[dusky river]

Isn't the level in USA lower than the European level ? I mean, I'm still in high school and I already had to deal with the basics of data structures/ and algorithms that you often see in your two first years into engineering studies

[smoky quest]

lmao no. France is one of the lowest

[dusky river]

Yeah, in math 😐

[smoky quest]

oh, I meant in compensation.
For math and education, France is actually pretty good

[dusky river]

Do you know that if people in USA or UK can often hire without a degree ?

[smoky quest]

Immigration in the USA is pretty strict and very unlikely without a degree.
While you can find a job without a degree in the USA, in all likelyhood, you wouldn't be paid as much and your career opportunities would be far less

[dusky river]

I thought that most of tech companies used the "interview" way to check your hard skill more than diplomas

[smoky quest]

They do, but you have to get in the interviews first

and if you are that good, then getting a degree shouldn't be difficult, especially in France where education is so cheap. Which goes back to standing out comparing to the other candidates, most of whom have degrees

[dusky river]

Ikr, but I've mostly made my skills by myself. I have really decent grades at school even if I don't do that much, but it's mostly because I like to learn, but not from school

I know that going into college would be terrible for me, I'm not really made for this

[smoky quest]

Don't take it the wrong way, but I doubt you would be in any position to compete with someone having a license or a master.
There are tons of things to learn beyond writing code.

I highly recommend to go for a CS degree

[smoky quest]

What makes you think so?

[delicate bane]

startups. what does everyone think about them?

[honest pivot]

Salaries are not good in the UK, unless maybe you work at a hedge fund

[vapid jay]

heyu

[near ocean]

Depends on what you think is good tbh
Hedge funds do pay tons tho yes

[smoky quest]

In the right context, they are great.
In the wrong context, you are wasting your time

Examples of great context:

• Founding team
• You aren't part of the founding team and you want some fun and don't care about money
• They just reach the hockey stick period, right on the cusp of raising the next round / go through IPO

[rustic schooner]

What does hockey stick period mean?

[graceful mason]

Hockey stick graphs are when there's a sharp rise after a flat area, in the context of business that can mean a sudden uptick in sales

[delicate bane]

interesting interesting

[near ocean]

My experience has been overwhelmingly pleasant
I was hired with no previous exp to take over 2-3 projects off the founder's hands
They're giving me immense freedom in terms of the implementation of features, they encourage me to contact their contractors by myself, anything i ask for they help me with, etc

I was worried that i wouldnt have enough structure to help me learn, we dont do code reviews and only recently i've been assigned tickets, but the freedom is just so much more convenient than getting stuck in the corporate structure

Not getting paid that much and the hours are long but im not looking to move yet

My gf has similar experience with startups but thats a different industry entirely

In summary, p good would recommend/10

[smoky quest]

when the company has found product market fit and experiences an explosive growth

[smoky quest]

If you have just graduated, some things to consider:

• I would recommend to go first to a larger company where you can learn the best practices and have a more structured learning environment. Startups tend to lack in that regard
• Overall, larger companies will provide much larger and safer compensations than startups. If you aren't part of the funding team, the compensation won't be as large and you will have to wait quite a long time (ie. years) before even getting access to the equity, if it's even worth something
• Because the startup is growing and less defined, there are opportunities to grow faster and do more things and get more responsibilities
• Private companies offer options, not stock. You would have to pay for them and pay taxes for them even if you can't sell them for years

[delicate bane]

how frequent do people leave regular company jobs for startups though - i see all these openings for senior positions in startups and i wonder about this

[near ocean]

Not frequently enough, theres a senior level shortage in pretty much any and all businesses

A startup, given theres a senior there to help you, would let you learn faster and more diverse skills in my opinion
You have to do so many different things and theres no rigidity/inflexibility to get in your way the way a corporation would

[smoky quest]

It's hard to quantify. There are all sorts of reasons.
But it's also hard to hire senior people in startups because larger companies can pay very competitive amount of cash $$

And by competitive, it means more than you would get at the startup including equity, except for exceptional cases (ex: whatsapp), and being delivered over time rather than being locked in equity for years

[hoary summit]

hi

[delicate bane]

yeah i mean like why would senior people go for startups. its a big risk both career-wise and financially

i guess it depends on your risk-tolerance

[vapid jay]

Avoid management maybe

[smoky quest]

risk is fine if it's aligned with the rewards

[delicate bane]

ok i might join a startup

[plucky cypress]

Well thank you, that was some much needed motivation! If only I could learn to make apps with an actual UI and not just console outputs, that would be great

[forest nymph]

dont do apps, learn actual cs

apps is interior design, cs is building the house and foundation, which is more important 😄

[delicate mesa]

And what does CS consist of?

[peak halo]

@forest nymph I don't agree with this. If your goal is to be a software developer, there are many things you need to know that don't strictly fall under computer science.

[delicate bane]

i have also heard this echoed many times

[opal sigil]

Computer science develops most the skills necessary to be a software developer from understanding how computers work to learning multiple programming languages and putting them to use

[plucky cypress]

And to be fair, my CS and programming skills are covered. Now it's about expanding the skill set and moving away from a console to create actual applications with a user interface is kinda an essential skill for anything front end

[smoky quest]

I just saw your initial message and am a bit confused with regards to the expected outcome of it.
What type of help or discussion are you trying to get?

[quartz python]

should i learn python and C sharp or just python

[smoky quest]

it depends.
If it's your first language, focus on one.
I also do recommend python if it's your first one.

But that's also question more for #python-discussion as it does not relate to a career

[quartz python]

ok thanks

[south mulch]

Thinking of Completing my masters in USA. Can you please suggest me what course to take. I mean between Data Science and Computer science with Machine learning.

[pure knoll]

What should I choose as my career for python

[smoky quest]

what does that mean?

[pure knoll]

Nothing

[peak halo]

It sounds like you're trying to decide between two degree programs. I'd be inclined to take a computer science degree with an ML focus more seriously than a degree in "data science". I've never heard of data science having separate programs and I'd be skeptical about how it's being accredited.

[stiff olive]

@void topaz Hi buddy

[south mulch]

Like there is unique program for data science which involves data analysis, statistics, neural networks and others. On the flip side, computer science in masters involves programming and computer related courses and machine learning being add on

I'm confused between these two courses.

[summer roost]

startups definitely give you the opportunity to build experience in a more diverse skillset, but they're notoriously bad at training. Startups are much more sink-or-swim than larger corporations, and they tend to invest very little time and money in employee development. Smaller teams with less redundancy means that there's often not a more senior person to guide you - or, if there is one, their incentives are aligned with getting the job done, rather than helping you learn how to do the job.

None of that is necessarily a bad thing - if you're a capable self-starter who learns well on the job and enjoys wearing a lot of different hats, that might be a great fit for you. But, when evaluating the pros and cons of startup vs large tech company, I think it's important to paint a full picture. Larger companies do have more rigidly defined roles, but also greater job security, and more interest in training and retaining people, and stronger support systems for junior employees than startups have.

[summer roost]

What is the Data Science degree, exactly?

[south mulch]

A graduate program that combines core concepts from mathematics, computer science, statistics, and information science to leverage insights and help data scientists improve operational and business processes.

[summer roost]

ok, but - what gets printed on the degree? The other one clearly would say "Master of Science, Computer Science" - what would the Data Science one say?

[forest nymph]

if you want to call yourself a "software dev", then you cant not know CS. Its that simple

if u want to be a web dev, full stack dev, insert-x dev, then sure, u dont need cs

software is what all that is built upon, and implements the core concepts of comp sci

theres too many people trying to break into this because they wanna get paid. Im just tired of it

ill put it this way, in terms of depth and breadth of knowledge. a computer scientist is a doctor, a web dev is a nurse

unfortunately our field isn't formalized yet. the massive demand is going to force it

[summer roost]

Most people would say a "software dev" is someone who is paid to develop software. You seem to be trying to force your own unusual definition on others.

[forest nymph]

ugh. dont turn redditor on me. Im saying, the definition of dev today is wildly out of control.

that is, dev != dev

linux kernel dev, javascript web dev. But they both say "im a software developer"

[summer roost]

could that be because both develop software?

[forest nymph]

sure

im a breakfast developer

microwaved a sandwich

[summer roost]

regardless, you're arguing an entirely different point than Stelercus was making. He was saying that you need to know a lot of stuff above and beyond computer science to be a software developer. That doesn't imply that you don't need to know computer science.

[smoky quest]

I see where you are coming from, but that's also not making justice to the depth of webdev. Without going into ach'tually type of discussions, your messages would probably be better received if framed differently

[near ocean]

Sounds very much like gate keeping
I'll call myself software eng then

[forest nymph]

redditor arrived

[summer roost]

You've seen our #code-of-conduct, right? Your ad hominem attacks are not appreciated here.

[forest nymph]

I have no idea what ad hominem means but ill head out

[summer roost]

it means attacking the person rather than the substance of their argument

[forest nymph]

ah sensitivity training. rgr

[summer roost]

if that's how you want to see it, sure. From my point of view, our entire code of conduct boils down to "don't deliberately be a dick"

[near ocean]

When people dont have much to say they often just try to use cringe insults, could we have some clean up?

[smoky quest]

I am gonna stay away from this discussion from now on but I just want to point out how insulting and attacking people rarely lead to interesting discussions. People will focus on the emotional level and sound bites rather than something worth discussing.
I am not saying this to pile on but to hopefully help you understand why attacking people rather than their argument(s) has nothing to do with sensitivity and has everything to do with interesting discussions.

[summer roost]

I'd prefer not to delete on-topic comments. Nothing that was said here warrants any more than a verbal warning to be polite, from my point of view. And there is an interesting conversation that could be had here about the relative knowledge base of different types of developers, or whether a CS degree makes you more adaptable, or things like that.

[near ocean]

Apparently not adaptable enough to take criticism 🙃

[summer roost]

"Not everyone who develops software is a software developer" is a weird hill to die on, but "people who have been trained in computer science are able to dive deeper, solve more interesting problems, and demand higher compensation than developers who haven't" would be a substantially easier argument to make.

[near ocean]

If they think webdev isnt software development wait till they hear about excel users

[smoky quest]

nocode*

[summer roost]

people who've never taken a data structures and algorithms course are often able to code something that works, but scales abysmally.

nothing in the interface of a list implies that deleting the first element is drastically slower than deleting the last element, or things like that, so people who haven't ever had to peek under the covers often hit a wall when it comes to writing code that performs well under load

[smoky quest]

That doesn't make less any less software devs.

(I have seen folks trying to use md5sum to generate IDs for database objects)

[summer roost]

oh, I agree. I think we could attempt to quantify the depth of knowledge required for different types of software development, or the compensation bands, or or the promotion potential, or what have you. But I certainly agree it's all software development

[smoky quest]

Sure, people have different specialties and areas of expertise, but encouraging them would only help them go forward and learn more. And shaming them would not be so different from fat shaming people going to the gym

We should strive to be more inclusive, not building more walls to protect our egos

[summer roost]

And I have absolutely seen people who've written excel sheets that I'd comfortably say qualifies them as software developers 😄

[smoky quest]

that said, it doesn't help that bootcamps/tiktok/medium articles will happily conflate both and sell the dream of very high paying jobs to people who are unlikely to reach that

[summer roost]

yeah. Well... to be fair, I see boot camps as geared towards people who've already missed the university bus, and for that set of people, it is a path that may well be more likely to lead to a high paying job than staying at the job they're in

[smoky quest]

definitely. It would fit the category of high paying job. But it wouldn't really be FAANG scale

[summer roost]

sure.

[smoky quest]

the nice thing though is the field can still be quite meritocratic, at least in the USA

[summer roost]

a good deal moreso than most careers, yeah.

[near ocean]

Idk about that, asset managers pay a ridiculous amount for ability in excel
I've met people taking in six figures by stumbling their way into formulas in excel

[summer roost]

that's six figures GBP?

[near ocean]

Lots more if you even know what vba is
Yes

[summer roost]

damn. Good for them 😄

[smoky quest]

that's pretty cool

[summer roost]

In all seriousness, I, as a reasonably competent software developer, have absolutely seen excel sheets business-y people have thrown together and been impressed

the line between Excel formulas and pandas isn't all that stark

[smoky quest]

I do not envy them though

[summer roost]

my first software job was assisting with inventory and bookkeeping at a small business - maybe 150 employees, or something like that? It was back when I was in high school, and I threw together some Excel spreadsheets that did most of the work for me, between formulas and VBA - letting me enter numbers only once and auto-fill them in other places, highlighting likely typos, pointing out places where we were 200 units of X short and had 200 extra units of Y because someone wrote down what they used wrong, etc

nothing terribly impressive, and certainly nothing that needed any CS knowledge - I distinctly remember being overwhelmed by Access when someone tried to show it to me - but still quite a bit better than if everything needed to be done entirely by hand.

[smoky quest]

there is still a lot of business value in there. And that's what matters at the end of the day. It's also a lot more easier to follow than pure code.

[rustic schooner]

Bit late but thanks for the explanation :)

[smoky quest]

Similarly, I was sent by accountants models for the modeling of a new startup finance aspects. They would not have been able to do the same so quickly in pure code

(related to that, there are a lot of chatter about how excel and airtable are some prime examples of nocode apps)

[near ocean]

When i first started this job my boss showed me one of the reports they create for the customers
Clicked open the file and suddenly i had dialogs, progress bars, charts and graphs thrown at me, it was incredible
He used event hooks, flow control, loops, data structures, OOP, etc, which part of this doesnt fall under software development...

[dim pelican]

I learn better by being hand on but I cant dedicate myself to any projects because i feel like its for nothing. Is there any way to get a software developer job making slightly above the lower end of the average salary with little experience?

[smoky quest]

Imagine someone came to your house trying to convince you to let them redo the kitchen without showing you what they did before. How much would you trust them? How would you trust them comparing to other people who have more examples of their work?
It's the same thing here.

So why do you think projects are for nothing?
Also what's your current situation? If you are in HS, the easiest route is to go for a CS degree

[smoky quest]

also on the note of aiming for the low range, remember that people who aren't willing to spend much aren't also willing to treat you well

[dim pelican]

My only goal is programming because its fun. But there are so many portions to that, its hard for me to decide. Making my covid bot was fun but the backend of my website was also exciting. The little command line apps ive made were interesting and outside of the GUI aspect, desktop applications have been nice. I cant setting on one aspect and honestly rather have a job dictate that.

I mean i have my github, its not like there's absolutely zero experience to look at. Don't have time to get a degree ( i work an extremely stupid shift again and have three kids. The plan before my current job flipped and f'ed me was to do sophia learning and transfer that to SNHU)

[dim pelican]

True but at that point I would be with the company to learn first hand and work experience on my resume. One to two years would be all i need.

[smoky quest]

got it. So past the age of HS.

Yeah, then:

• standard route is webdev for self taught
• Given the amount of money in tech, you aren't the only one thinking about it. So projects do go a long way to help you stand out
• Don't undersell yourself either. Sounds like you have some knack for it

[summer roost]

That's a pretty good description of an internship, though they're generally only available to students.

[crisp jackal]

Do internships and jobs look at transcripts

[dim pelican]

Honestly my only goal money wise is stay where I am at currently. Average salary for software developer where im at is about 40k more than my salary and 30k more than what i actually make due to all the mandatory overttime (i work 7 days every 2 weeks).

With web dev, i am horrible at UI/UX lol. My portfolio using flask and a bootstrap template.

[near ocean]

time to learn JS, react, and a ui library then

[smoky quest]

python backend isn't too far off from webdev.

Also looking at your resume:

• Most ATSes have a hard time parsing more than one column formats
• I would flip the top and bottom of it since they are more relevant to a tech job
• Your projects on your resume aren't strong enough to make you stand out

[dim pelican]

Won't be able to do most internships due to my schedule. Take the following as two weeks starting monday and ending on sunday with O being off work and W being days i work:

W-W-O-O-O-W-W
O-O-W-W-W-O-O

Those are 12 hour shifts 7pm to 7 am. I dont wake up until 3 pm and go back to sleep around 3 am. Unless someone is just giving me task due weekly most things wont work for me, at least what ive seen out there.

[dim pelican]

I've recently signed up for Frontend Expert so after i learn the basics wouldn't be to far off would it? I actually have a few books about it and Angular from bundles i got

[crisp jackal]

I was asking if Internships or jobs look at transcripts

College transcripts

[dim pelican]

Sorry i misread it

[smoky quest]

they would not unless something is fishy or require to dive deeper

[near ocean]

they might so dont throw them away if thats what youre worried about

[smoky quest]

(or weird policy)

[dim pelican]

So i paid to have my resume redone for nothing 🙃

[crisp jackal]

Ok thanks

[smoky quest]

I am only giving you feedback as someone hiring engineers.
But I am only a stranger on the Internet :p

[dim pelican]

No it isnt the first time ive heard that. I just ignored the tiktok because i didnt want to be sad about basically wasting money lmao.

[smoky quest]

as a rule of thumb, you have like 30s to convince someone to call you back.
So you want to start with the most important things you want the reader to know. Given you are looking for a tech job, the ink experience is not as relevant as your python projects and therefore the python stuff shall come first

[smoky quest]

fyi, tiktok about tech and tech jobs are pretty toxic. I wouldn't believe everything I see on it

[dim pelican]

What would be some good projects to add to a resume? Something like this https://www.programmingexpert.io/projects/blackjack-card-game

[smoky quest]

Walk backward from it. What jobs are you targeting and what skills do they require?
From there, what projects would help you demonstrate these skills

[dim pelican]

Most of my techtok isn't about getting into tech or working in tech. there was this one person though that kept coming up and honestly made me depressed but thats for other reasons.

[near ocean]

a blog is pretty much the quintessential webdev project
you could also do some visualisation, algorithms look pretty when played out and visualised

[dim pelican]

Too board lol. Like i said my only requirement is im making something others will use. I guess since im trying to get my Data+ Cert i should focus on something database related. Could probably spin my current job towards that since i deal with inventory control, formula development and creation as well as record keeping and slight analyzing.

[dim pelican]

Like CS50 binary search animation? Visually not exactly

[near ocean]

And lots more, pathfinding is the best looking visual imho

[smoky quest]

python jobs are broad.

If the job is about backend for a webapp, then I will care about these skills
If the job is about data processing/visualization, then I will care about the type of things @ mariosis mentioned above

[near ocean]

Also shows you can understand the algorithms, cant go wrong with algo visualisations

[dim pelican]

Currently learning them through algoexpert.

[near ocean]

Some kind of web app like a blog and a visualisation thing is the broadest combo of projects, they touch on a lot of subjects and its just two projects

[dim pelican]

I guess ill try to focus on data focus projects. Probably should learn numpy and pandas then.

[dim pelican]

Alright will keep that in mind.

[vapid jay]

Hi

Is there anyone online

[dense mesa]

Yeah

[near ocean]

No, no one online

[vapid jay]

Can you help me about career

[near ocean]

only if you ask a question

[vapid jay]

Yeah so I’m 16 year old learning computers Linux python and stuff can you tell me what should I do at this age to have better opportunities in future

😅

[near ocean]

Keep learning
Build projects
Get a degree

[vapid jay]

Hmm

[near ocean]

that's pretty much it, if you want specifics youre going to have to be specific yourself

[vapid jay]

Yeah

Thanks for advice

[dim pelican]

Dont fall into the trap im in lmao. Pick a career path that seems interested i.e web development, software engineer, data science, game development, etc. Itll help you narrow down what you need to learn for example you wouldn't need flask for data science or pandas for game development (unless its panda3d)

[vapid jay]

Oh

[dim pelican]

You said youre working with python and linux. What do you like to do currently?

[vapid jay]

Yeah Linux and python little bit of web development I’m doing

[dim pelican]

Maybe look into backend. Python had a few libraries for web development like Flask and Django. From my understanding the servers are typically linux (i know my website uses linux on pythonanywhere) so its a good mesh.

[vapid jay]

Yeah

Do you I should learn something else also

[dim pelican]

As far as python goes, no focus on one aspect. As far as the career, you could become a full stack dev by learning something like LAMP (Linux, Apache for the server, MySQL for database and Python for backend). The actually tools are interchangable such as Linux could be Windows for WAMP or Mac for MAMP.

[brittle thorn]

What sort of trap are you in and maybe you can get out of it

[dim pelican]

Full stack would also require some java, HTML and CSS (html and css are simple from my experience though even using Semitic syntax)

[vapid jay]

Hmm

[dim pelican]

Not sure what to do. I just enjoy making things and want to do it for a living. So I'm having a hard time focusing on one aspect. Although i am signed up for both forntend and system engineer courses atm.

[brittle thorn]

Maybe you are full stack lmao

[dim pelican]

Well im also studying for my Data+ Cert lol. I know a little about a lot.

[vapid jay]

Yeah I think full stack would be good

@dim pelican thanks for the advice brother

[brittle thorn]

Very good

[dim pelican]

Youre welcome.

[brittle thorn]

Very good adviser too lmao

[dim pelican]

Learned from my mistakes. Too late to go back now though lol. Been out of school for 7 years now.

[vapid jay]

😅

[brittle thorn]

Same

Did finish school thou

[vapid jay]

I’m in 10 grade

[brittle thorn]

Oh nice at least you have time to plan

[vapid jay]

Yeah 😅

[brittle thorn]

Dont over optimize you interests may shift over time ....mine did

Keep you grades high and options open

[dim pelican]

Yeah I graduated high school in 2015

[brittle thorn]

I finished BS but dropped out at MS

[vapid jay]

I got first rank in class

[brittle thorn]

Nice

Did that in college lmao and got into Deans List

[vapid jay]

Hmm

[vast rapids]

Hi, I was looking for a really entry level job, or project but I couldn't find any.

I've looked python.org and places like linkedin

[peak halo]

what level of experience do you have?

[vast rapids]

I don't have any work experience

[peak halo]

what about education?

[vast rapids]

but I almost finished a 2 year degree, completed some certificates

[peak halo]

a two year degree in what, and what certificates?

[vast rapids]

can I send just a linkedin instead

[peak halo]

Nope

[vast rapids]

An Associate Degree in Computer Programming

and a cert about python from a local org

and I'm looking for work so I can study in EU either Software Eng or CS

[peak halo]

Are you an EU citizen?

[vast rapids]

yep

but I'm currently finishing the degree outside EU

[peak halo]

So you're pursuing a BSc in CS outside the EU. I would think that if you apply to internships (not full time entry level positions) that you would be a competitive applicant. At least in the US, full time developer positions (including entry level ones) aren't usually available to non-degree holders unless you have substantial industry experience.

[vast rapids]

I'm going to pursue a BSc in CS in EU or Software Eng in EU if I can find enough money TwT . Currently the place I am is kinda bad in financial matters. I've also looked in linkedin for internships but since I'm not yet studying in those degrees I can't find a suitable internship too. Additionally my degree (Associate Degree) will be from a open uni. I'm also a 1st year in Managment Information Systems (Bachelor) also from a open uni.

[peak halo]

Sounds like there's a lot of factors here that I'm not qualified to comment on.

[vast rapids]

[peak halo]

well, I have no experience with European education or industry, and I don't want to steer you wrong. (I'm also the author of a message in the pins telling people not to do that, so it would be especially ironic if I did.)

[vast rapids]

I already kinda messed my direction my main degree that I was studying in a regular uni was German Teaching. Soo yeah TwT

[pearl birch]

Should I go to college for software engineering

Cause I personally don’t see myself going to college and I feel like I can learn more online

[near ocean]

Why wouldnt you go to college? do you have any reason other than "i dont see myself going"?

[azure mountain]

That may be true but a barrier to most jobs is still a degree. That is slowly changing but in order to be successful you will need an impressive portfolio of work that demonstrates your level of skill.

[wispy garden]

And what if you got an online degree? Like one from coursera or other learning platforms , would that be a good alternative?

[obsidian mesa]

[near ocean]

coursera doesnt offer degrees
its not a degree unless its accredited by a recognized standards body and some random website is not that

[delicate bane]

any good examples you seen? sounds fun tbh

[onyx quest]

um

Where do I learn how to use python

[near ocean]

https://visualgo.net/
https://www.cs.usfca.edu/~galles/visualization/Algorithms.html
https://www.toptal.com/developers/sorting-algorithms

Ofcourse they dont have to be as big as these ones, you could have a couple of the big ones, pathfinding, tree balancing, sorting, etc

i started on of these a while ago and did bubblesort, quicksort and fisher-yates and then gave up cause im an idiot
should pick it up again

[delicate bane]

its mostly to get ideas tbh; if i make any, it might just be the algos most relevant to me

[delicate bane]

try asking in #python-discussion

[pearl birch]

I mean do you recommend I go to some top college

Cause I don’t have the best grades tbh