career-advice

[exotic nova]

What type of py projects are in your portfolios? Just like 1 or 2 you could share

[lapis wind]

Mmmm I disagree, although some areas do make it nice to have a degree in that particular area, normally the maths'y areas like various bits of AI. But I wouldn't say it's really limiting.
Although that can absolutely change between region and country

[exotic nova]

Are you self taught or go to university/college

[graceful mason]

There aren't any jobs that require knowing a single thing - the more technologies you learn the greater the number of jobs you qualify for
Having a job in CS means learning new things as new technologies are released, chances are whatever job you have won't stay the same forever

[exotic nova]

Ok that makes sense thank you

[graceful mason]

When you're looking at ads you can sort of consider "What we're looking for" as skills you must have to get the job, and "What would make you stand out" as skills they're happy to teach you on the job

[exotic nova]

Is python a good starting point to become proficient in and then branch out to others that I see on ads

[lapis wind]

i'd say it's pretty reasonable

Pythons a very popular language so there's always some amount of demand for it

[vapid jay]

Ive noticed some hrs are completely diferent to others

[exotic nova]

What’s HRS

[vapid jay]

I mean as in recruitment teams, they are very attentive when others are absolutely horrific

[exotic nova]

Ahhh

[lapis wind]

occasionally that becomes warning bells 😅

[vapid jay]

Literally

[exotic nova]

What jobs do you guys do?

[lapis wind]

I work for ~a company that does essentially anything and everything. So we tend to do a lot of large scale commercial projects for various national services to private data science clients to large digital media systems.

tries to remember what projects we publicly disclose information about vs ones we dont

[exotic nova]

What would you say is the language you use most for that job? Or is it a collection

I have no idea what jobs in coding are like im a complete noob so sorry for any dumb questions😂

[lapis wind]

Tends to be fairly heavy Python, C#, Js, TS. But like, Java, Kotlin, Ruby, Etc... are all not far off that list

Python projects tend to be the data science'y projects, C# and JS ones tend to be more web orientated.

[gritty rivet]

I have irrelevant degrees, so basically self-taught as far as tech is concerned. I did do a part-time bootcamp which was a critical last step.

Having no degree at all makes it harder but not impossible.

[gritty rivet]

I'll DM you

[lapis wind]

honestly with data analytics python tends to become more common than other langs

just cuz the ecosystem is huge

[vapid jay]

I dont really like c and c++, do you think it is worth investing time into learning more java, c# and ts? Im kinda hoping for a yes

Also how is c# more web oriented. And do you do data science as well?

[near remnant]

Dont learn Java

Just learn Python

But also, if your only goal is to work in web dev, then its a whole different situation

Ruby also almost a dead language, dont learn that

C# is great

[frosty terrace]

i had a recruiter reach out to me and say that i should learn java, that he is giving people jobs for 300k with java and it's in high demand to even just know the basics

[near remnant]

Bruh thats a scam

[frosty terrace]

he didnt offer me it, just told me to learn java

[smoky quest]

Java is wildly used in backend

[frosty terrace]

he said that he wish someone told him that when he started

[near remnant]

Java is really popular but I would not learn it. You have to decide tho.

[frosty terrace]

honestly i fear I'll end up doing data analytics with python and creating my own business with a mobile app using unity and C#

I know python and C# already

[near remnant]

Honestly, for a lot of backend jobs language doesnt matter. If you know python or java, you should be fine.

[near remnant]

What do you mean by "you know"?

[smoky quest]

java has worked pretty well for me

[frosty terrace]

like i can actually write programs using those languages

[near remnant]

Well, anyone can write programs

just google stuff, ta-da

[frosty terrace]

i dont copy and paste

[near remnant]

Nah actually, java is good but seems like a pain in the assss

[near remnant]

you missing out then, copying and modifying existing code is really efficient

[frosty terrace]

java is very similar to C# from what I've seen

[near remnant]

Yeah, thats why ppl recommend C#

Honestly, if I could start over I would learn C#. But what projects could you make in C#?

[frosty terrace]

Same ones I could make in python. Honestly, python is a great stepping stone, probably will land my next job, but C# is just so much more powerful and better to use

[buoyant seal]

yeah, C# is quite nice. Its only drawback it is microsoft

[wraith swift]

Yooo, im trying to start a career at a young age, any ideas? Looking for python and web development mostly

[frosty terrace]

That is something I've only found by doing web apps, basically that is all you really do, which is why I hate web development

[near remnant]

I will start my backend internship in python and django. Plan is to stay at the company as a junior after that. Long term I would like to work in Data Engineering.

[lapis wind]

Asp.net, just kinda does everything for you in 90% of cases and does it reliably well

[buoyant seal]

It does not sound like a good advice

[smoky quest]

• Aim for a CS degree. So make sure you have the grades to get it
• Have fun, build things and learn fun things. So build websites, backends, frontend, robots, and games!

[frosty terrace]

I haven't seen many jobs that use django, I think more people use C# and some other framework for web apps, and of course... java is all web app development

[near remnant]

Using already existing code, changing it for your project and make it work?

Mate, 90% of web devs do this

[lapis wind]

Yeah, I think generally at least for us. We try to avoid python for web apps

[buoyant seal]

copy pasting does not sound like a good advice? it sounds like a WET way

sure some copy pasting is always around, but perhaps it is time to introduce it into installable package xD

[near remnant]

mate, you think a junior can write everything without any help?

[wraith swift]

No u got me wrong... i have good grades, like A’s and A+’s so im looking for a job, im pretty good with code as in apps, bots, etc, not robots and raspberry pi and yeah

[near remnant]

Even seniors need stackoverflow 💀

[vapid jay]

Thanks!

[wraith swift]

LMAO SO TRUE

[vapid jay]

What do you guys mean for the backend java and python?

[lapis wind]

Generally speaking there's a difference between blindly copy pasting code vs looking at existing code and understanding how to reimplement it for your own requirements

[near remnant]

I was talking about the second

But nevermind, some people here think a real job is like solving problems on leetcode 💀 💀 💀

[true harness]

i don't think anyone actually believes that

[near remnant]

Whats that emote

[vapid jay]

Wdym by java and python is on the backend?

[near remnant]

What?

[vapid jay]

You said something like thaf

[near remnant]

Yeah, i said i use python for backend

[delicate bane]

if they do, i think they have bigger problems

[near remnant]

Trust me there are people like that

[vapid jay]

People should stop asking for leetcode at the interview then

[delicate bane]

i wholeheartedly agree

[true harness]

leetcode is used because it's a quick way to assess certain skills

[near remnant]

Leetcode is only popular in US

[lapis wind]

There is an element of those sorts of things help demonstrate an element of problem-solving

[vapid jay]

Im in uk and only huge us companies take blood from your backside shen hiring. Normal companies do a small check up

[lapis wind]

and thinking about things like data structures

[vapid jay]

Im happy im not living in usa.

[true harness]

Normal companies do a small check up
wdym "small check up"? surely they also need to filter candidates based on skill

[near remnant]

You can pretty much memorize the answers and the patterns. It doesn't test your knowledge but your dedication. Imo

[vapid jay]

Yeah its a knowledge/code reading/debug check up.

[near remnant]

Im in UK too, never had any leetcode tests

[true harness]

that just isn't true. there are so many variations on problems you aren't able to memorize them all. very tiny changes to a problem can dramatically change the solution

[vapid jay]

Some bozo i talked to got a job exactly that way

[frosty terrace]

why do people hate leetcode

[true harness]

they're bad at it

[near remnant]

Well, tell this to my friend who got an Amazon job by doing this

[vapid jay]

I applied to visa and ocado and they blasted me with leetcode

[vapid jay]

It is completely unrelated to anything and is theory based

[lapis wind]

I mean... That's not entirely true

[vapid jay]

Cs theory at the core. Not your ability in anything else

If you want someone to solve algorithms all day go ahead, hire them.

[true harness]

sure, CS theory. but also how you communicate to the interviewer your thought process, the quality of code you write, and also problem solving ability

[vapid jay]

Again im happy i am not touching anything leetcode anytime soon

[lapis wind]

You do still want knowledge about things like data structures and how they affect the program. Which things like leetcode tend to imprint fairly well

[near remnant]

Its easy, apply to a lot of companies and only interview where they dont give u leetcode lmao💀

[vapid jay]

Good lukc to the bozos in usa

[near remnant]

Europe >

[lapis wind]

Do you use a binary tree? Do you use a hashmap? A tri? Something else!

[near remnant]

I know them but never use them

[true harness]

you never use a hashmap?

[vapid jay]

Who the hell uses a binary tree

[gilded valley]

Tonnes of companies do leetcode tests in the UK

[near remnant]

Where csn I use a hashmap in my web app? Pls tell me

[true harness]

a python dict is a hashmap. databases use B-trees

[lapis wind]

I use those three aforementioned structures everywhere

[vapid jay]

The big faang like ones do.

[gilded valley]

To get request headers back from a request

[lapis wind]

Most programs tend to rely on binary trees and hashmaps and arrays

[gilded valley]

Also plenty of medium or non tech companies

[true harness]

python is basically built on hashmaps

[lapis wind]

Those a pretty much the 'core'

[near remnant]

Wow, very interesting!

[lapis wind]

Linked lists if you're feeling flamboyant

[gilded valley]

Linked lists have pretty much no use

[vapid jay]

Who uses linked lists

[true harness]

linked lists 👎

[near remnant]

So u guys know this bcus u grinded LC? Or?

[vapid jay]

Dicts are the only ones used there

[true harness]

you don't use arrays?

[near remnant]

Who

[silent rain]

DSA

[vapid jay]

I use lists. These are very simple stuff. We mean the challenging weird tricky ones

[lapis wind]

Linked lists can be pretty Pog at times. Although I despise implementing them

[gilded valley]

What times?

[vapid jay]

And we all know why they are there. Why those questions are beingnasked

[frosty terrace]

It's problem solving using your knowledge of coding. You may not have such problems, but at least it shows you can solve a problem.

[lapis wind]

Used them in caches and write ahead log structures most recently

[true harness]

to test your knowledge of them

[vapid jay]

To thin out the applicants :|

[near remnant]

I know many senior developers and they never had to do any leetcode

[frosty terrace]

if all you do is copy and paste code, you're not an actual coder

[true harness]

challenging weird tricky ones
such as? most "challenging" ones have tons of real world use cases

[lapis wind]

lRU cache moment

[true harness]

well yeah. every company wants to hire the best applicants

[near remnant]

Thats true but on the other hand, you are extremely delusional

[vapid jay]

Google hiring managers do research onnit and figure out if they picked the candidates randomly it wouldnt make a difference

[near remnant]

Yeah, emote me guys, lets go

💀

[vapid jay]

She released something like a book on it as well. Its a scam

[frosty terrace]

Honestly outside of copying and pasting for formats for web apps (simply to save time), I've never done it otherwise.

[vapid jay]

Youve never done copy pasting?

[near remnant]

@true harness whats your problem

[vapid jay]

Are you all pre uni pretentious peoplr?

[true harness]

huh?

[near remnant]

You and this other anime guy/girl emoting all my messages, why

[true harness]

because it was a strange message

[near remnant]

Why?

[lapis wind]

I do disagree with this, although for some cases yes it doesn't matter that much. There are definitely instances where it's useful to know and if you don't know of them and how to use those structures then you can be producing code which is considered 'bad' because you've gone down some random line of logic using the structures you know

[near remnant]

Anyways, im just an intern. I probably dont know enough 😂

[lapis wind]

Your last message was a tad rude, try to keep it respectful to others.

[near remnant]

I know but he didnt understand my point, anyways

[frosty terrace]

I like to know how I'm delusional. If I have an idea, I can make it a reality via code. All I need is documentation at most. I don't copy and paste code and ask people to help me. If all you're doing is searching for answers and getting answers by other people and just copying their work, you're not a coder.

[near remnant]

Ok mate, but no one was talking about this. Thats why you are delusional and trying to prove your point.

We get it, you are a master programmer and you dont need help.

[lapis wind]

Now would be a good time to drop the argument and move on

[true harness]

people were talking about it though lol

[frosty terrace]

^--- whats this

[near remnant]

I didnt mean it like copy pasting but whatever.

[near remnant]

Probably

[ivory sluice]

!warn 187284368681730048 calling people delusional (and quite unreasonably so) is not respectful. abide by our #rules and #code-of-conduct going forward

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @near remnant.

[whole wasp]

My company said if I don’t sign the papers they want me to resign but why do they want me to resign myself and why can’t they fire me?

[frosty terrace]

probably so you dont collect unemployment

[half geyser]

Hello

[true harness]

sign what papers

[whole wasp]

NDA and other contracts

But he said I wouldn’t qualify for unemployment anyways since they would deny it

[native narwhal]

Is unit testing and testing with python easy(er) route into the tech industry opposed to software engineering?

I know that QA can be challenging and it is not simply easy but for someone to get their foot in the door would you recommend learning this particular thing

[vast shoal]

You ought to learn unit testing if you're going to be a software engineer as well.

And any kind of programmer can benefit from it, so yeah, I'd recommend learning it.

[tawdry grove]

unit testing is actually kinda fun

[native narwhal]

how about working as QA testing without being a software engineer

[vast shoal]

I doubt that it's easier to get in the door as a QA than as an SE, I'm sure there's generally more demand for SEs.

[vast shoal]

It's interesting in principle, fixing a billion broken tests when you had to make a major change is less so.

[native narwhal]

easier in terms of learning curve

[vast shoal]

In my experience, what QAs do is a subset of what I do, so, yeah, there's probably less to learn. On the other hand, I've met SEs that have had relatively little experience with testing, so maybe it's not true in general.

[smoky quest]

there is a risk of being pigeon holed into it. So you would have to evaluate the trade offs

[native narwhal]

While taking a shower I got the idea to learn the difference between front end vs backend testing, for example there is a JavaScript tool called Cypress.io which focuses on the Front End I have to find a similar tool devoted to back end testing

[vast shoal]

Backend testing generally doesn't require special tools other than a unit testing framework.

[smoky quest]

keep in mind the more visual/manual, the less compensated it will be

[delicate bane]

yeah i always had the impression automated QA testing roles paid more than manual QA ones; glad to see that verified

[smoky quest]

It's the same old story of the market with supply and demand. What requires more skills has less supply and is thus worth more

[buoyant seal]

Cypress.io is equivalent to writing tests with Selenium in pytest. (Or using Robot framework)
It's for end to end testing.

Main (unit) Frontend testing is made in JavaScript testing frameworks like Jest (alternatively Mocha+something)

Frontend testing between unit and end to end testing is done in testing frameworks like Jest, with hooked Frontend testing API to load specific complements

Backend testing for 98% of time is just done in pytest.

+Some crazy people use more end to end solutions in backend testing(which often has no point to use I think, robot framework is hard to debug), plus there exists BDD stuff, but I don't get it yet

[whole wasp]

Is it better to quit or get fired?

Employer is telling me to resign because of an error they made in the hiring process. Basically sending contracts to sign after I started working instead of before.

They are telling me to resign.

I told them I am fine getting terminated but they just want me to resign

I know I get unemployment if they terminate me but they said they would deny it anyways idk how that makes sense. Is it up to the company?

They also said I may have to pay back benefits if they fire me.

If I don’t care about unemployment should I just quit?

Or if I get a new offer around the same time, is quitting fine?

Or should I have them fire me? If they fire me, how does that look to new employers? Will the new employers know in any way?

I was reading future employers will not need to be explained but how would they even know?

It was saying when resigning u can frame the story in a better way.

Does being fired go on ur record in anyway? Like can I still put the job on my resume even if I was fired?

Will they know about it? Can I explain how it wasn’t my fault etc?

[summer roost]

I know I get unemployment if they terminate me
That's not necessarily true. If you are terminated for cause, you are generally not eligible for unemployment. I don't know whether being fired for refusing to sign contracts that you told the company you would sign is "for cause" or not. An employment attorney would. Please don't ask further questions about whether or not you would receive unemployment if fired. You need a lawyer to answer that.

they said they would deny it anyways idk how that makes sense. Is it up to the company?
No, it's up to your state's unemployment program - but whether or not you are eligible for unemployment will depend on what the company says you were fired for. If you are fired because the company has a downturn and can't afford to pay you anymore, you probably would be eligible for unemployment. If you are fired for punching your boss in the face, you probably would not be eligible for unemployment. Only a lawyer can tell you where on that spectrum refusing to sign these papers falls.

They also said I may have to pay back benefits if they fire me.
I have no idea if they have a legal leg to stand on or not. An employment attorney would. We can't tell you if this is true or not, so please don't ask about it further.

It was saying when resigning u can frame the story in a better way.
I think that's true, in the sense that it's at least one less red flag that can come up when they reach out to check your references and previous jobs.

Does being fired go on ur record in anyway?
Will the new employers know in any way?
Not unless you tell them, or someone else does. They may find out when checking your references.

Can I explain how it wasn’t my fault etc?
But it was your fault, right? This is still the case where they said the offer was contingent upon you signing some stuff, and you never signed that stuff, right?

I suspect future employers will not look kindly on your story - no matter how you spin it, it's a story about you telling the company you would do something and then refusing to do that thing. The less you tell future employers about this entire situation, the better it's likely to go for you - I doubt they'll be sympathetic.

[whole wasp]

I never said I would sign them but it does say in the offer letter that I read and agree so u could say I did accept it. The only problem is I didn’t even know those were contracts as I never had to sign them before. I just glanced it over and didn’t even know what it was. But idk why my company took 4 weeks and sent me the docs after I started working when their training docs say they all the papers should be signed before the first day.

[summer roost]

I think you'll have trouble spinning this story in a way that makes the company seem unreasonable and you seem reasonable.

[whole wasp]

So u just wanted me to sign docs that I didn’t answer that have legal significance and docs that I was given after I started working when they themselves said I should have signed it before. Since I worked here 3 months I could just say another story, like how can they even confirm? And I’m still hoping nothing bad happens to me even when I resign....

[whole wasp]

How can they even check or confirm anything? What if I just didn’t like the job etc?

[summer roost]

By asking your old company.

[smoky quest]

Rule of thumb is to never sign anything you don't understand.

If you aren't holding yourself accountable to things you sign, then what counts? A pinky swear?
Realistically, that's why contracts matter because they lay out explicitly the expectations on all parties

[summer roost]

Your previous company may not tell the new company anything, but it may. Confirming with your previous employers that the employment history you gave was correct is a standard part of hiring. If the previous employer contradicts something you said, it can definitely hurt your ability to get jobs.

Like can I still put the job on my resume even if I was fired?
I definitely wouldn't omit a job where I was fired from my resume, FWIW. Background checks are a pretty typical part of hiring in the US, and if a background check surfaces that you had a recent job in a related field that you chose not to tell the new employer about, it will look like you're hiding things.

[whole wasp]

I thought they can only ask dates of employment and maybe the question if they would re hire me or something

[vast shoal]

At least where I live, it's common for a potential employer to call up previous workplaces and coworkers and interview them about the candidate.

[whole wasp]

Exactly what I’m doing here but somehow some ppl are saying that’s bad? And there’s def been situations Wer I have signed papers I never read and nothing bad ever happened either way but I am learning to read everything as bad things keep happening to me.

[smoky quest]

you can ask anything.
The companies answering that may limit their answers for legal purpose, but just saying you got fired without expanding on it could remain factual and make enough damage to put your future employment at risk

[whole wasp]

They should also hold themself accountable and send the contracts before I actually start working like it says in their documents and fire me right away or don’t let me start until I have signed them

[vast shoal]

What's in this new contract that you dislike so much that you want to quit?

[whole wasp]

That’s a reference check and I can use other companies I worked at for that

[smoky quest]

The problem here is you already joined a job where you have already agreed to sign it.
So in essence you are reneging on your words and appear as acting in bad faith. That can be used against you. In the context of that channel, you saw it coming since you were asking the question of what if you don't sign it a few weeks ago.

It would have been a much cleaner situation if you hadn't sign anything where you promise to sign such papers. Sure the company wouldn't have hired you, but you would have saved such headache and potential $$$ losses

[summer roost]

they can ask anything they want. The old employer can choose not to answer. (Oh, recursive already said that.)

[whole wasp]

So it’s better I quit? They aren’t gonna do anything bad if I do that right as they want me to quit

[smoky quest]

They can sue you for anything and may ask for benefits or compensation back. Whether it holds in court or not is a different question, but that is something that may cost you either way

[whole wasp]

I already answered this I didn’t understand what I was signing. Do a lot of people do thatV

[whole wasp]

They can ask for the paychecks back?

[smoky quest]

Welcome to adulting where people are responsible for their actions 🙂
Ignorance is not an excuse

[smoky quest]

they can even ask for damages or to pay for their expenses

[summer roost]

If claiming not to understand what you were signing could get you out of any contract, there would be no point to contracts.

[whole wasp]

This says in the new contracts

[smoky quest]

it doesn't even have to be spelled out in the contracts

[vast shoal]

You could try to dispute it in court I guess, but you'd need some convincing evidence that you were somehow tricked for that to hold up I guess. Try asking a laywer, I guess?

[whole wasp]

Well what do I do now? Have them fire me, just quit, or sign? They were telling me they want me to resign should I just do that?

[vast shoal]

What's the downside of resigning?

[smoky quest]

you need to call a lawyer and pay for their services

[whole wasp]

Tricked for what?

[smoky quest]

(in general, first hour is free or something)

[vast shoal]

Yeah, that's what I mean, unless you were tricked, you just knowingly signed a contract and you're responsible for that decision.

[whole wasp]

No unemployment benefits but idc about that tbh, idk if they can still do anything else bad to me? Maybe I can just ask and clarify with them if they just let me resign without any other things they will do I should take their word but they have known to lie before. Esp if I resign formally through an email...

[vast shoal]

Definitely feels like a contact a lawyer situation.

[whole wasp]

What about they sending the rest of the contracts much later when it says I was suppose to receive it before starting working.

[vast shoal]

Ask a lawyer.

[summer roost]

idk if they can still do anything else bad to me?
No one here can tell you what legal risks you open yourself up to by resigning, or what legal risks you open yourself up to by being fired. You need a lawyer to help you answer those questions.
Maybe I can just ask and clarify with them if they just let me resign without any other things they will do I should take their word but they have known to lie before.
Definitely don't take their word on something like that. They're extremely unlikely to sign an agreement saying they won't pursue legal action against you, and a verbal agreement is very unlikely to stand up in court.

[whole wasp]

It says on the contracts to consult an attorney since they have legal significance and I could just say maybe I couldn’t afford an attorney so that’s why I didn’t sign or even the attorney told me not to sign it. So in that case the offer letter where I said I would sign them how could that still hold? If this had happened before I started working I would never have even started the job which is the whole point so I still don’t know how it’s my fault

[smoky quest]

These types of excuses do not fly.
These contracts aren't new and as an adult, people expect you to be accountable for your acts

[whole wasp]

What if there’s a clause in there that’s bad and an attorney says don’t sign it for that reason and in my case it’s my first time signing it.

[summer roost]

If people here aren't sympathetic to your version of events, the new company isn't likely to be either. Even if you think we're all wrong, the new company is likely to feel the same way as we do.

[whole wasp]

Idk why the new company needs to know anything except dates of employment.

[summer roost]

you can't see why a company would want to know if you were fired from your last job?

[coarse crag]

do you think they would hire you if you had problem with your previous company?

[whole wasp]

Which is why I’m asking if it’s better if I quit as long as nothing else bad happens

[whole wasp]

Problem isn’t my fault and idk how much info they can know.

[coarse crag]

they are telling you to contact a lawyer so that you won't escalate the problem further because based on what you said, your company is not trustworthy

[summer roost]

the new company is likely to ask you why you quit. I suggest you go into as few details as possible when you explain.

[smoky quest]

What if there isn't? And if there was one, why waiting all this time to bring it up after being fired/quit? That wouldn't look good for you either way

[whole wasp]

The lawyer thing is just for the contracts I think they all say that

[vast shoal]

It's better to do whatever an employment lawyer tells you to do.

[vast shoal]

This is not about what the contract says, this is about your situation being legally hairy and you need advice from a professional rather than us.

[smoky quest]

It's also for what will happen afterwards. Especially if they are already talking about asking you for paying back stuff. That could become expensive very quickly

[whole wasp]

Also someone said being fired and terminated are two different things as being terminated is ok which is what would happen here if I didn’t sign the contracts

[coarse crag]

you could think of the situation as you were trapped into a hole. rather than trusting someone who put you into that hole (your current company). it's better to ask a professional to get you out of the situation. you wouldn't want this thing to hurt your career for years into the future and destroy your work reputation.

tbh from my pov, it's your fault since you didn't read the contract

[honest pivot]

If your company forgot to give you the NDA to sign, then that's just some oversight, obviously you need to sign it to continue working there. If you were acting in good faith, you'd just sign it. It sounds like you're trying to hold it over their heads, as though you're gonna be some magical exception to their rules because they missed some minor detail. I'm not sure why you would expect that to work.

[summer roost]

they're likely referring to the distinction of being terminated for cause or without cause. Like I said above, no one here can tell you whether being terminated for refusing to sign papers that your offer letter said you would sign would be considered being terminated for cause. A lawyer could.

[whole wasp]

“Do not resign.

Getting fired is not the same thing as being terminated. If you're terminated and a future employer asks about it, simply tell the truth - that the old company rescinded the offer after you accepted. That doesn't reflect on you at all.

Also sounds like your company is trying to feed you all sorts of misinformation about unemployment benefits. Do not listen to them.

Look at your state's unemployment website and call the office if needed. Even if you're not eligible for UE benefits, it doesn't hurt to file a claim.”

[whole wasp]

Y sign something I don’t understand. What if lawyer says not to sign it either and then I should have just not started the job

[smoky quest]

your problem is none of these has happened. So you have thing to back it up

[whole wasp]

The only paper i signed is the offer letter which is what I need to discuss with an attorney nothing else right?

[summer roost]

Even if you're not eligible for UE benefits, it doesn't hurt to file a claim.
This is definitely true.

sounds like your company is trying to feed you all sorts of misinformation about unemployment benefits. Do not listen to them.
This seems to be at least partially true, based on what you've told us. If they say that the company will deny your claim, rather than that the unemployment agency will deny your claim based on information the company supplies, they're certainly misleading you.

Getting fired is not the same thing as being terminated.
They're referring to "for cause" vs "without cause", and no one here can tell you which of those your case would be. A lawyer could. They're right that this distinction would affect UE benefits.

[honest pivot]

It is worth pointing out that the same person has been posting the same questions on many discords, attempting to get legal advice from non legal professionals.

[smoky quest]

• It could be argued you didn't ask for the contract in the first place
• You signed on paper you would agree to it
• There is a gap of time between the time they give you the paper and are now trying to kick you out.
• You have no documentation proving you have reached out to a lawyer so far

[whole wasp]

What about fired and being terminated in terms of how future employers see it? Will future employers not care about terminated or treat it same way as quitting?

At least I know what questions to ask a lawyer

[summer roost]

If you're terminated and a future employer asks about it, simply tell the truth - that the old company rescinded the offer after you accepted.
This would likely leave the new employer with a lot of questions. Companies don't rescind offers 3 months after you start working for them.

[smoky quest]

and they did see it coming.
Pretty much same replies: <#career-advice message>

[whole wasp]

I didn’t ask cuz I didn’t know what it was. I signed that it says the offer is contingent on it not saying I’ll sign them. The gap doesn’t make sense why did they wait 3 months to follow up on this? Did make a call but never hired

[summer roost]

the only way they will know whether you quit or were terminated without cause or were terminated with cause is by asking you, and by asking the old company. How they see it will depend entirely on what they hear from you, and what they hear from the company, and what conclusions they draw from both of those stories.

[smoky quest]

that's what contingent means though. It means it is conditioned on it.
Regarding the gap before asking just means you both forgot and is in no way an excuse to get out of what you have agreed on

[summer roost]

"the offer is contingent on it" means that they do not extend you the job offer unless you do it.

[whole wasp]

It’s still their responsibility to make sure I have it signed which they didn’t

[summer roost]

I have no idea if that's true or not, and neither do you.

[whole wasp]

But they did

[summer roost]

It’s still their responsibility to make sure I have it signed
no one here can tell you if you're correct about this or not. You need a lawyer.

[whole wasp]

At this point I may just want to sign it but I feel like it’s too late for that, they don’t like me and me signing will prolly put me deeper in trouble with them or they may just fire me soon after anyways and then the clauses will still apppyb

[summer roost]

that is entirely possible, especially if you're in an at will state (nearly all of them)

[smoky quest]

You could also ask your lawyer if it reduces your legal exposure by signing and then quitting

[whole wasp]

He wants to talk tomorrow morning more about this and idk what to say may just say I need more time to think and consult someone as I don’t know what I’m doing

[whole wasp]

Not sure what u mean by this as signing and quitting means the clauses will apply to me

Maybe I should have just signed it even if it came late but as I said what excuse do they have for giving it late and why can’t they explain some of the stuff I don’t understand.

[vast shoal]

Definitely talk to a lawyer before you verbally or otherwise agree to anything.

[smoky quest]

It sounds like the relationship and trust between you and your employer is burnt anyway. But if you sign and quit, then they may not be able to complain (sue you to pay back things) you haven't signed it anymore. But again am not a lawyer and that could possibly be a bad idea

[whole wasp]

Idk how verbal means anything as I had spoken to him over the phone and he clearly told me lies about some stuff to make me resign

[coarse crag]

that's exactly why you need a lawyer.

[vast shoal]

Nobody knows what verbal can mean from a legal perspective, that's why you shouldn't do or say anything until you talk to a lawyer.

[whole wasp]

Do I tell them that?

[smoky quest]

We have also kind of exhausted the possible points of this discussion too

[whole wasp]

Speaking of verbal

[bitter bronze]

guys I've just been so depressed lately

[whole wasp]

He wants me to talk to him in slack tommorow should I just talk over the phone instead. Idk if slack is tracked?

[bitter bronze]

Many of my friends got internships this summer and managed to get volunteer experiences and all
While I ended up getting absolutely NOTHING

[summer roost]

what excuse do they have for giving it late
They may not need one.
why can’t they explain some of the stuff I don’t understand.
It's certainly not their job to give you legal advice. In fact, if they were to give you legal advice, that might open them up to having the contract invalidated, since you might be able to credibly claim that they deliberately misled you about what you were agreeing to. It's in their best interest to not explain the contract to you in detail; they are not your lawyer.

[smoky quest]

what do you attribute this to? How may we help you?

[bitter bronze]

does anybody have any tips on how I can get internship offers

[bitter bronze]

Initially me being super picky on where to work but right now it's just me not knowing how the game works man

[whole wasp]

I can’t believe I can’t just quit without having to worry about something bad happening.

even tho they want me to quit

Maybe the recruiter made a mistake in sending docs late and is just trying to save his skin since it was his fault

[bitter bronze]

like I know I'm a better programmer than my friends and I also have significantly better grades than them. Yet somehow they managed to get internships and I didn't

[smoky quest]

It's not about being a better programmer or not. It's about being able to advertise yourself and look for a company willing to host you as an intern.
So that means reaching out enough companies, going through as many discussions as possible so that you end up with one great internship that fits your career goals

[smoky quest]

Why not?
You signed a contract where you promised something and now your actions have cost them money. It wouldn't be far fetched for them trying to seek reparations.
Contracts are not made for when things are going smoothly but for when things go bad.

[bitter bronze]

do you have a good plan I can follow and how much time I should spend per day?

I still have 1.5 months left before school starts do you think that's enough time to land something?

[smoky quest]

My recommendations are to look at it like a sales funnel:
You will reach out to X companies
Only a percentage of them will reply and be willing to talk
But then only percentage of these will be willing to go to the next step...

So reach out as many companies as you can.
That said, it depends also on the timeline of your internship, how it fits in your education system, etc. (some countries/degrees only have internships at specific times)

[bitter bronze]

oof that makes sense

so it's more about quantity than I thought

what is the likelihood of being accepted without a college degree?

[smoky quest]

yeah. not every company will do internships and in the area you care about, etc. So you should expect a lower rate of reply

[smoky quest]

it's pretty low to be honest

[whole wasp]

I didn’t promise them I would sign something that I have no idea what it says...

U can’t force someone to sign an NDA

[smoky quest]

You signed a paper promising you would. That's a promise

[bitter bronze]

eh I'll try my best starting tomorrow I guess with the whole quantity thing

[whole wasp]

If the docs were given the same time maybe

The offer is contingent on those docs if I don’t sign them then don’t let me start work or fire me

[summer roost]

I'm almost certain this isn't true, but a lawyer would know for sure.

[coarse crag]

we genuinely think it's better for you to contact a lawyer. it's for your own good. we don't want to offer an advice that might ruin you in the future.

[smoky quest]

And that's what they are doing, along with getting back all the money spent on you (which may include related fees to rollback everything)

[summer roost]

You might be able to successfully argue this. You might not. It depends on law and precedent in your state. A lawyer would know.

[smoky quest]

good luck!

[whole wasp]

But they are doing it much later

[summer roost]

and that might be a thing they can't get away with. A lawyer would know for sure.

[whole wasp]

In my last job everything was one doc and I just quit and nothing bad happened and they didn’t ask for any money back

[summer roost]

if you continue asking for legal advice here, I will mute you.

[smoky quest]

And how would that be stopping them? Does the contract specify a time limit?

[honest pivot]

Your motivations don't even make sense. Like I said before, if your goal is to work for this company and you are acting in good faith, then you would just sign. If your goal is to play games with the wording of contracts, I have the feeling the company has deeper pockets for lawyers than you do.

[coarse crag]

I have the feeling the company has deeper pockets for lawyers than you do

you don't even need feelings for this to be true 🤣

[coarse crag]

"Is it better to quit or get fired?

Employer is telling me to resign because of an error they made in the hiring process. Basically sending contracts to sign after I started working instead of before.

They are telling me to resign.

I told them I am fine getting terminated but they just want me to resign "

it's actually better to advise him to ask a lawyer.

[near ocean]

IANAL but this sounds like they dont want to pay whatever severance is defined for terminating you without cause

Read your contract and dont resign

[summer roost]

given that this is in the US, the contract almost certainly does not provide for any severance.

[smoky quest]

In terms of phrasing with your lawyer, I would recommend to be as factual as possible with the least amount of bias or spin.
It's like trying to debug something, you want to understand the situation without making any assumptions (which could mislead them)

[near ocean]

Theres no severance in US contracts? Wow
L US worker rights

[summer roost]

the general situation in the US, in almost every state, is that either party can walk away from the employment relationship at any time for any reason, with the exception of a few prohibited reasons.

yes, workers rights in the US are generally much, much worse than in Europe.

[summer roost]

jobs with unions are an exception to this - but unionized work in the US is relatively rare, and unionized software dev jobs are practically unheard of.

[smoky quest]

There is also such wide gap in software jobs that I don't think the people at the top would want that either

[honest pivot]

I was laid off once and was offered severance. I don't remember if it was in the actual employment contract. Probably not, although that thing was like 50 pages.

[summer roost]

I've been offered severance as well. I do read what I sign, and I know they had no obligation to make that offer. They conditioned the severance offer on signing a non-compete agreement.

[coarse crag]

oh i see. from the wordings of Aurendil, it sounds to me like he's giving an advice to just sign the contract if he means good. that's why i mentioned that it might be better to ask a lawyer instead because we don't know who's in the wrong or what the company will do.

[smoky quest]

In California, there are also some rules if the company is larger than a specific threshold (60 employees if I recall and X people layoffs). So layoffs would include something in general

[honest pivot]

Indeed, it was from a large company in California

[summer roost]

TIL. And this is why we shouldn't be giving legal advice 😄

[smoky quest]

oh yeah, they should reach out to a lawyer for sure.
I was more referring to your hypothetical message to the lawyer

[smoky quest]

There is even a gov website where you can see all the layoffs. but yeah, it's state dependent as well

[summer roost]

yeah. If you do talk to a lawyer, definitely give them all the facts, not just the ones that make you look good.

[honest pivot]

As far as I understand this other guy's situation, he started a job and his offer was contingent on signing an NDA, but they forgot to give him the NDA to sign. 3 months later they remember, and he's refusing to sign for some reason. It's not clear to me what outcome he wants from this situation.

[summer roost]

refusing to sign it when they initially caught that mistake does likely jeopardize his ability to keep this job long term. What legal consequences accompany the decisions he makes from here, though - that's way into the territory where a lawyer needs to answer the question.

[honest pivot]

exactly

[smoky quest]

It's also a lesson for the folks on this channel too.
They already declared their intent on not signing it weeks ago when they started and were hoping for that paper to not be brought up by the company. Now it's catching up to them with potential lawyer costs and items they need to reimburse to the employer, thus costing way more than what they were expecting to get out of it. And that's not even counting the damages to their career or the stress and headache.
Had they been straightforward from the beginning, none of these would have happened and they could have instead focused on finding another job where they would be happier.

[graceful mason]

You shouldn't be able to get a job in tech, or any career where you develop something, without signing a comprehensive NDA. If you're not ok with that then consider other careers

[formal kayak]

So my third interview with the software engineering and the HR for my future internship went pretty well especially the behavioral part. I did the 1 hour technical take-home portion which was off despite being on the right path with some documentation (I printed the memory location of the objects and ordered the objects in a list from old to new (ascending) in python 3 👀) e.g. sorting inputted entire objects by a date string

but honestly I feel confident that I’m on the right track and I updated my resume to prove to them I find no other commitments during this internship as it is full-time until the start of my fall quarter.

Just wanted to share 🙂

[near remnant]

Hey guys

[near remnant]

Congrats mate

[frozen hemlock]

How to land my first job ?

[near ocean]

apply, interview, sign contract

more detailed answers are reserved for more detailed questions

[light lotus]

What’s scope in being active in freelancing

[peak halo]

not sure what you mean about "the scope in being active", but from what I understand, freelancing is more work for less pay, so there has to be something about the format/lifestyle that appeals to you.

[light lotus]

Well being a side hustle

[peak halo]

if you're a full-time developer, you probably won't need or want a side hustle.

[gilded valley]

Toptal seems like it might be the exception to this rule

[peak halo]

What is toptal?

[gilded valley]

Another freelance agency like Upwork, but specifically for software developers - the differentiator is that you have to pass a difficult interview process to get on the platform

[frozen hemlock]

I need a mentor

[peak halo]

we don't really help people find mentors here. you can refer to the resources page on our website, and use the help system if you have questions

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[frozen hemlock]

thanks

[chilly nebula]

hello

[whole wasp]

I’m fine signing it just wish I could read and sign it before I started working

[whole wasp]

In this channel seems like everyone is blaming me and not the employer? Maybe it’s both our faults?

The fact that they're pressuring you to resign rather than be terminated makes me think there's some very unethical things going on behind the scenes.

[near ocean]

Why couldnt you? You started working a job before you signed anything?

[whole wasp]

There’s no severance maybe unemployment

[ivory sluice]

!mute 297590290410373121 3d we have exhausted all possible outcomes for all the various questions you've asked in this community that we are not equipped to answer. please listen to the various moderation instructions given to you over the past few months and stop asking community members for legal advice.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @whole wasp until <t:1658669821:f> (2 days and 23 hours).

[peak halo]

@umbral bane @vapid jay @graceful lily this is the career discussion channel, so make sure your messages are on-topic. general chatting can happen in one of the off-topic channels, like #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

[umbral bane]

Sry

[spring nexus]

Hello, I just turned 16 I’m about to be a sophomore. I am interested in becoming a software engineer as a career path. I am in search of a direction or path to follow in general as a way to set my self up in the best possible way. I’m taking python 1 & 2 this school year but I feel like there is more I can do to prepare for the future. If anyone has any advice as far as becoming a software engineer, I would love to hear it. If you do please dm me

[buoyant seal]

Picture: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg
GitHub: https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap

Take notice of green squares. They are generic Software Engineer skills. I mention resources on a map to learn stuff too.
I would recommend going to direction of data structures/algorithms, and after that git usage first.
Then go to OOP stuff and design patterns, after that go to road leading to testing

And yeah, do pet projects a lot

[peak halo]

If you do please dm me
we answer questions in the server, so that everyone can see what answers have been given and comment

taking programming/CS-related courses in high school is a great way to prepare. you could also look at different CS programs that you might want to attend, and ask their admissions counsellors what they look for in an applicant. They'll probably want to see that you did well in those programming courses, as well as math courses.

[topaz ridge]

hey guys i about to get into my college and i have taken up CSE(computer science engineering) i wanted to ask for some advice here what language should i start up with also from where do i start it . i have had ppl tell me to take up CS50 . i have enrolled . But do u guys have any suggestions . i am literally new to the world of coding . i have learnt cpp basic for 2 yrs in my +1,+2 and java basic for 1 year in high school (forgotten also just txt book things mugged) . so im here to seek advice from all the senpais here .

forgot to mention but im turning 18 this year

[tough bolt]

hewwo

[topaz ridge]

hihi

[tough bolt]

now im interested in the curriculum of cs degree. heard that it was kinda useless but some stuff is useful

[peak halo]

did you see my answer in pygen?

[tough bolt]

yes

[tough bolt]

i got that conclusion from other ppl that i asked before, such as eivl but now i just want to know what exactly do ppl learn in cs

[topaz ridge]

yeah so
1st sem everyone has common subjects
2nd sem same but some extra
3rd sem onwards we can choose a specialization and so on till 8th sem
each sem is 6 months

so what do u guys think which is better cpp or python or anyother

[peak halo]

things people learn in CS, other than programming.

• set theory
• graphs and graph algorithms
• time complexity
• theory of computation
  • finite automata
  • push-down automata
  • turing machines
• programming language theory

[tough bolt]

so dsa and mainly maths. is it like a math degree or an engineering degree or a science degree "Computer Science"

[tough bolt]

any language that they focus on? c++, py, js? ocaml????????????

[peak halo]

it actually depends on the university. at my university, CS was part of the math department, and then it got moved to engineering

[peak halo]

also depends on the school. mine mostly used Java or C, except for the data science courses, which were python

[tough bolt]

no like the "style" of the degree, like more math based? coding based? theory? or like science "experimental"

[smoky quest]

They will actually show you different languages using different paradigms (oop, functional, procedural, logic, etc.)

[peak halo]

elements of all of those.

[tough bolt]

ah, i see

[true harness]

many of the more abstract courses don't even use a real programming language; they use pseudo code

[tough bolt]

then like do employers recognise stuff like a science degree (biochemistry/biomedicine) with classes/minor in cs?

[tough bolt]

as formal cs education?

[tough bolt]

oh my

i thought ocaml was niche enough lol

now they aren't even code just pretend code lmAo

[true harness]

it's not really a big deal. if you understand what the code means, you can translate it into whatever language you want. the ideas are universal

[tough bolt]

swe? let's say entry swe google lv3

[tough bolt]

oh so are the assignments code? like write actual code and not pseudocode and the lessons are taught in pseudocode?

[true harness]

it would depend on the class, professor

[tough bolt]

let's say im more ambitious and go for a fang-level?

most of them says work experience/degree so

idk so vague

[true harness]

do they say "CS degree" or "cs degree or related field"

[tough bolt]

that's interesting. i have seen both before i think

[true harness]

well then there ya go

[tough bolt]

but if you don't mind, do yall take cs degree in us? is cs good in the uk? i wanna have local fees so don't wanna move + i like uk unis, yk the famous names

but like unis have their specialities and not sure if cs in uk is good at all

[lapis wind]

Uk CS degrees are fine. They're note absolutely required in alot of jobs but they help in getting your first job. I didn't go down the CS degree route though, not really had any issues, not saying that you wont potentially have a hard time.

[tough bolt]

i see, yk just wanna ask here since idk if there are anyone at the opposite side of the table being the hr and interviewer so just wanna ask here for anyone to answer

[lapis wind]

most I have seen which do require a degree either just want a degree of some variety. Not necessarily CS which is a tad weird or equivalent experience. Or are just so crazy that they have things in their requirements like "Must have 5+ years of experience in <x framework or language> and A degree from one of the top universities in cs" for a junior position

Looking at you Crypto job 👁️

[tough bolt]

IKR AHAHA IDK SOME THAT I HAVE SEEN ARE SO FKING SPECIFIC

[harsh jolt]

Most employers will look at people with STEM qualifications without caring too much about the specific subject. They know they'll have much to teach regardless.

[tough bolt]

solidity developer 132k per annum avg 👀

[lapis wind]

From what i've seen watching new grads join our company. Generally speaking they're pretty much starting from scratch again / the same point without the degree. Because the degrees tend to be very theoretical or specific with things that half the time you just wont touch when you're getting started.

[tough bolt]

but the other option that im considering is a "science" subject like biochem/biomed since my school doesn't have cs/ict as a level so 1) unis accept cs either cs/ict or further math but tbh im not too math-sy either so i was wondering IF i could get into a cs degree in uk what will i learn

i alr had a discussion on whether cs is worth it before but just wanna know more about what's taught in the degree

[lapis wind]

Most CS degrees in the UK dont require CS a level. Normally just basic maths a level works.

realistically A level CS teaches you almost nothing other than the very very basic concepts (which even then alot of students just ignore) so most unis start from square 1 again

[tough bolt]

tf????? iirc oxbridge/imperial??? idk which one exactly requires some like specific subject for degree prereq. so chances are my a levels are bio, chem, maths and french

[lapis wind]

[tough bolt]

LFGGGGGGGG RUST SOLANA LFG CONGRATS

[lapis wind]

I denied that lol

[tough bolt]

WHAT OMG GIGACHAD MOVE

:((((((((( imma go cry brb /j

[lapis wind]

You'll learn eventually that most Crypto jobs tend to be completely shit. And/or scams.

Had many, many, offers of things like "200-400k compensation paid in our crypto" which is just like "we're gonna pay with the money we just printed"

[tough bolt]

cool do pls tell me more on this i really wanna know im okay at solidity and i hope to one day use this skill

don't wanna fall into a scam/trap yk :((

oh rly but like for most "good" unis in uk a level maths is alright?

[lapis wind]

Cant really tell you any more than that. Cuz I just instant reject any crypto related jobs or any which involve the blockchain

[tough bolt]

since my school is more traditional, i'd say and no ict/cs there as elective

[tough bolt]

but what makes you say that it's a scam? any articles that i can read from? any devs yk/your experience tells that it's not legit? just wanna know bc it might concern me

"recommended fm" but do oxbridge consider my own portfolio projects into consideration? im year 10 and i have plenty of time to make some impressive ones ig?

[lapis wind]

generally speaking oxbridge arent the best for CS degrees anyway. They're not bad, but they're still about the same as Bristol, Bath, Nottingham, Warwickshire etc...

Nottingham is general is also the place where most computephile videos get filmed

[tough bolt]

i see, yk just wanted the names and see what they require bc from what i know they usually have pretty high requirements unless it's their speciality it's kinda overrated

[lapis wind]

I'd have to say, it's a big maybe.

To even be considered you'd first need to pass their entrance exams, and have incredibly high a levels anyway before the project would be considered. Even then I imagine not

[tough bolt]

i see

[tough bolt]

math and bio would be fine for me for starters and we're alr doing as level french rn so chem to boost, yk with gcses done, more time to just grind a levels so i think academic wise wouldn't be too much of a hurdle

[tough bolt]

strategically picking subjects and degree options rn, other options are biochem/biomed

[lapis wind]

Just as a pre-warning to A levels, they jump between GCSE and A level is massive

[tough bolt]

i know

[hearty island]

naw this is way too much

asking for a photo id??

[lapis wind]

that makes total sense

[hearty island]

not to mention i can't find the recruiter on linkedin

[tough bolt]

but i have time and i'll be year 10 this sept

[near ocean]

A copy of your photo id or passport is a fairly regular ask

[tough bolt]

holy crap but it;s weird

[dense mesa]

What are you basing this claim on out of interest?

[lapis wind]

Which part xD There were sort of two claims in that msg

[dense mesa]

First

[delicate bane]

🕯️

[lapis wind]

Oxbridge generally doesn't have any distinctive gain over the other. There's a little bit of weighting to their general reputation in general. But in general,

• their research quality is about the same as others (I.e. Projects the university embarks on)
• student satisfaction over the years is about the same or lower. *Note: The more recent samples haven't got data for Oxbridge for unknown reasons
• Post-grad jobs in the industry are about the same

Downsides of them is they're incredibly hard to get into and potentially more expensive.

[tribal pilot]

general question ..
i need to redirect domain.com to my localhost
to control the api of special program.exe for testing bug on it
with an easy way
Just only 127.0.0.1 domain.com
inside hosts file
the issue is the program will be run as administrator so it's reading hosts file first when it find "domain" program will close..
how can i fix this issue or there is any way to change the default name of hosts for Windows to hostsV2 for example? so the program will read hosts file and windows will change ip of the host from hostsV2 file instead of hosts file
or there is any way to change ip of domain to localhost without using hosts file ?

[delicate bane]

i think you are looking for the #networks channel

[tribal pilot]

thx

[delicate bane]

[autumn gust]

oh god

[smoky quest]

wrong channel?

[autumn gust]

oh sorry

[dense mesa]

Personally wouldn't see it as a "little bit of weighting to their general reputation" but okay

If by research quality you mean the REF results, this is fairly outdated, and doesn't reflect the huge amount of funding the unis have

Student satisfaction is arguably irrelevant for a lot of unis, there'll be some good lecturers and some bad. Everyone being happy with their course may indicate lack of difficulty/challenge, take that as you will

Post grad jobs (in which industry) are patently not the same, some elite places only hire from Oxbridge, it'll likely be a CV screen automatic pass, and the networks there are huge

Incredibly hard to get into is true and fair enough, not sure how they're more expensive beyond non-UK tuition fees, accommodation and general living costs

[sturdy solar]

Ok guys multilayered question:

1. Would you consider my current standing for an interview at your job? (It’s merely hypothetical and let’s assume your job is something I’m interested in!)
   — (me) —
   29 (years old)
   Speaks Japanese and English
   Cannot code (still learning basics)
   B.A. Degree in Japanese
   Strong desire to learn, decipher, and analyze problems
   Background in logistics, data entry and classroom instruction
2. If no what do you need to do your job?

[near ocean]

My job is a software dev position so if you cant code youre not gonna make it far into the process

What are you really asking?

[vast shoal]

I'm a software developer as well. You need to know coding and related subjects. It helps a lot to have some kind of experience as well, like a uni degree, work experience or personal projects.

The other stuff on your resume doesn't hurt, but it doesn't particularly help much either.

[narrow owl]

So I just got denied to the computer science major. I don't know what to do at this point. Feels like I just wasted two years of my life for nothing.

My one dream was to become a software developer and this is a crushing blow.

[vast shoal]

Can you not get into another school or another similar major?

[dense mesa]

Don't need CS to become a software developer, maths/physics/engineering will be fine too

[narrow owl]

money

[ivory sluice]

why were you denied? is this in the US? are you transferring from 1 college to another within the same university?

[narrow owl]

i was denied because of availability reasons
I am in the US

CS major is overcrowded apparently

[delicate bane]

are you looking for a non-coding job or..? if you dont have coding skills, it will be tough to obtain a developer role...

[delicate bane]

you can always transfer to the major later

just do well and keep your GPA up

[vast shoal]

Why is money not an issue with this program but would be with others?

[narrow owl]

paying thousands of dollars for a shitty chance of getting in?
sounds like a recipe for disaster

[vast shoal]

But yeah, study math or physics or something like that

[delicate bane]

? its usually more than a few thousands btw

at least in the states

[narrow owl]

at least it's a prestigious school and I'm getting some worth out of my money. other unis in my state are not as good at cost just as much

[vast shoal]

School names tend not to matter much when you apply for dev jobs

As long as you have a degree

[narrow owl]

ok but still. money is a huge problem.

bleeding me dry ffs. $30k for two years only to get denied for availability

[delicate bane]

i dont have anything else to add. i would go the transfer route, but thats me.

[smoky quest]

In state college would also tend to be cheaper.
Student loans may also be an option.

The current education system sucks in the USA, but at the end of the day, what matters is you get that degree to maximize your opportunities

[true harness]

i'm a little confused, usually you don't start paying money until you actually get in. was it mentioned that they were transferring?

[smoky quest]

yeah not sure to follow that part either

[ivory sluice]

usually around the 2 year mark is when you declare a major, doesn't sound like there's any transfer involved here, they just put a cap at number of students or something. very weird but not unheard of

so they might be blocked from declaring a CS major, and are expected to choose something else

is that right?

[narrow owl]

the uni forces you to apply to the college of engineering. after getting in, you have to then apply to a major after 2 years of pre reqs

it is very hard to get into CS

it's a really scummy system

[ivory sluice]

what are the other options for majors besides CS? within the engineering school

[narrow owl]

B.A. Computing, which I'm fine in but I doubt they'll let me in that either

anything else is nothing to do with software

[ivory sluice]

only 2?

[narrow owl]

yeah

I'm honestly considering transferring to an online university

[ivory sluice]

and if you want to a declare a math major or smth you have to transfer to a liberal arts college within the uni?

are you not willing to do a different engineering major?

[narrow owl]

my passion is software engineering - there's nothing else I'd be okay with

[dense mesa]

There's other ways into it that aren't CS, and it may be good to broaden horizons before work

[peak halo]

@narrow owl I didn't get into CS the first time I applied because my math and science credentials weren't what they wanted. so I took calculus and chemistry at a community college, got As in them, and reapplied. are you sure you can't power through?

[narrow owl]

I'm looking into CSU online

seems like a more affordable option at least

[dense mesa]

Online learning at a university level can be very difficult, having done 2 years of it

[pastel quail]

majoring in a related field wouldn’t prevent you from becoming a software engineer. although i understand why you wouldn’t want to go through two more years of school without studying the thing you’re most passionate about

[pulsar drum]

In this case, it seems like a matter of the programme being overenrolled rather than a lack of credentials. Or are you suggesting to take the required classes elsewhere and re-apply next semester in hope of there being space?

[celest blaze]

does anyone have any suggestions on how i should learn python?

[ivory sluice]

yeah i'd also try and find out if your chances improve if you wait and try to declare again for spring 2023?

it is an odd thing, to have to "apply" for majors though

unis taking on more students than they can actually handle

[true harness]

it seems they can handle the number of students though in this case. i guess the main weird part is waiting 2 whole years to declare a major

[inland widget]

i heard going uni for cs to get a degree is a waste of time?

[sudden cairn]

no imo

you`ll learn a lot of stuff in contrast

but i wont deny that time will be wasted on useless stuff
specially if there are airheaded teachers

[true harness]

#pedagogy message

[inland widget]

👍

[sudden cairn]

whats relevant these days , i want to learn something new that would help in my career, even tho i study computer vision which is niche in my country

[glacial bronze]

how about mathematics

[tiny ridge]

I’m considering getting an undergrad before I graduate high school… are there good options?

[dense mesa]

By undergrad do you mean an undergraduate university degree?

[tiny ridge]

Yes

[dense mesa]

There is basically no way to "get" a degree before you finish high school

[tiny ridge]

I may consider online university?

[dense mesa]

There's too many misconceptions here, look into undergraduate degrees, their entry requirements and their typical durations

[tiny ridge]

Ok sorry. I will look into it

[narrow owl]

I'm not good at math and I don't like it either

[dense mesa]

CS has a lot of maths

[tiny ridge]

Thing is, I am ready

[pastel quail]

idt there’s a way to do both hs and college simultaneously? if you want to save time maybe consider trying to graduate from hs a year early

[tiny ridge]

Hmm. Yeah part time exists but like it’s just too much

Homework usually takes longer anyway

[narrow owl]

not really. I've taken all the math courses already.

my uni only required up to calc 2

[true harness]

unless you are truly exceptional, no college is going to admit someone without a high school diploma/equivalent. and you'll know if you're truly exceptional

[pastel quail]

you could also take college classes at a community college or through a dual enrollment program at your school. but i think you’ll need a high school diploma or ged to actually enroll

[tiny ridge]

Hmm

[true harness]

discrete math? data structures and algorithms? CS has more than just calc

[narrow owl]

I took discrete math

yet to take data structures and algorithms but that's not as much math, at least at my school

[dense mesa]

Could it be that data structures and algorithms are somehow related to discrete maths?

[peak halo]

they told me that that was why I was rejected the first time.

[pulsar drum]

Right, but how is that applicable to Emily _'s situation?

[dense mesa]

#career-advice message

[pulsar drum]

Yes, I read the original message. One situation is "I got rejected because of a lack of availability." The other is "I got rejected because of a lack of credentials." Even if one has the credentials, if there isn't space then there isn't space.

[peak halo]

I hadn't read that far back.

[dense mesa]

I understand what you're saying, the response is equally applicable for both situations

If there isn't space, might as well take related subjects and reapply

[smoky quest]

Alternatively, one could ask "why wasn't I in the list of selected people" and work from there

[ivory sluice]

maybe just say that next time 🙂 i was also confused by you linking a message mark has clearly already read

[pulsar drum]

Yeah that is what I managed to infer already #career-advice message but not sure if it's what was meant.

Though it's a bit of a gamble I think. Not all universities have the same requirements so one may waste time and money on a class should they still get rejected when re-applying later.

[ivory sluice]

googling a bit, it seems this "applying to majors" is more common than i thought

[dense mesa]

Because the question was how is it applicable, so I linked the message amongst the others which had something applicable

[ivory sluice]

but.. did you miss the part where Mark replied to that message exactly lol

[dense mesa]

No, which is why I linked it again in case it was a case of different perspectives reading it

[ivory sluice]

@narrow owl have you consulted your school's advisors yet? they may have more insight and also context to help you make a decision. because transferring or dropping out are both really big decisions and you should explore all avenues before doing so

because while you said you were denied due to "availability reasons," it sounds like there is a possibility that there is some bar that you haven't met (grades, for example)

and if that's the case, retaking some classes for a semester is an option you may want to consider.

[narrow owl]

I met all the eligibility requirements

[ivory sluice]

yeah, eligibility requirements sure. but they're disqualifying some students for the major based on something, right?

you may want to try and investigate what that something is. faculty and advisors may have some insight

[narrow owl]

well they told me because the CS program is very crowded and high demand

[formal kernel]

Does GPA really matter when looking for employment?

[ivory sluice]

you could ask whether higher grades would improve your chances, and if so, how much higher? can the classes be taken at a local community college or will they not "count" as much?

[narrow owl]

I don't know. If I'm gonna go to a local community college for a year, might as well not waste my time and simply apply to an online uni

[true harness]

if the online uni is legit, then idk how that would be any faster than a community college

[ivory sluice]

since you don't know, you night want to ask advisors

[narrow owl]

cuz i cant get a degree from a community college?

[true harness]

huh?

[ivory sluice]

the online university degree might be more cost effective, potentially. it might also have less opportunities such as job fairs and student-company pipelines than your current uni. (don't know, it's just a possibility)

Emily is saying why bother with CC @true harness

[narrow owl]

yeah, about $450 per credit for CS at the one im looking at. 100% online, so no housing or out-of-state tuition

[ivory sluice]

anyway, my point is, it won't cost you very much to probe the faculty (professors, advisors) a bit more before calling it quits

[narrow owl]

i guess i'll try

[rare drum]

Is a bachelors in Computer Science really useful in getting a job? I see conflicting opinions online about how useful a degree is in this field

[peak halo]

if you're a young person with no professional experience, and you want to become a developer, the easiest way to do that is to get a CS degree.

[gilded valley]

It is undoubtedly useful - I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that it isn't helpful unless they were trying to sell something

[rare drum]

are you emphasizing easiest by saying its not potentially the best?

[rare drum]

fair, thank you

[narrow owl]

I've heard a lot of ads say that a degree is the wrong path and to do Freemote or some shit like that
Sounds like BS imo

[gilded valley]

Bootcamps seem like an option that is worth investigating for some people - but university is certainly a safer route which has a lot of benefits that you just don't get from bootcamps

[peak halo]

well, most of the people in this channel who are interested to get a developer position without getting a CS degree believe that some other approach will be easier or more cost effective. so that's what I emphasized.

[rare drum]

Fair, okay thank you

[narrow owl]

Really wish education wasn't so garbage in the US

[true harness]

they say a degree isn't the best, then direct you to their own program which is obviously way superior. oh btw it costs a ton of money too

[delicate bane]

i think it makes sense for some peeps, like career changers, who could possibly leverage their prior experience depending on the role.

[gritty rivet]

Right, I sure as heck wasn't going to go back for a BS in CS when I already have multiple MAs in other fields 🤣 Bootcamps are great for career changers, not so great for people who just don't feel like finishing a degree

[summer roost]

I've heard that in some of those programs, they offer graduates a job teaching the program for new students, so that they can say that everyone gets job offers.

[narrow owl]

are boot camps worth it for getting jobs
maybe i can get a company to sponsor my education

[summer roost]

They can help a lot for career switchers. They're less good than a degree, but better than self teaching.

[gritty rivet]

Some are OK but most are predatory. They get a very significant cut of your income

[summer roost]

For career switchers, just being able to signal that you're serious about it and willing to invest time and money to achieve your goal is valuable. Even if you learned nothing from the boot camp, the fact that you spent money to get the certificate would still be a positive signal for employers.

[gritty rivet]

Agree... And part of the value of a degree is of a similar nature.

Bootcamp mostly is self-learning. Teachers advice and guide but whether you succeed or not is mostly about how well prepared you are and how much work you put in

I paid under $1400 for the bootcamp I did, but that's about as cheap as they get $8k up to $20k and more is common. I can totally imagine you are right in some instances

[delicate bane]

[viscid marten]

It finally happened, after teaching myself to code and applying to a few hundred jobs after two years I got my first ever job offer. I'm so excited. It felt like I was getting no where, but it finally happened. Hang in there guys!

[smoky quest]

Given you are still in the school system, I would strongly suggest to continue there.
There is still a huge gap in learning, value and opportunity between a degree and a bootcamp

[vapid jay]

I am possibly going to fail a course that will make or break me from graudating

learning design patterns in python generally stresses me out.

I guess I learnt to become a programmer for no reason. I hope no ones going through this.

[hearty island]

if only this was during the summer 😢

[glacial bronze]

What year of study are you?

[vapid jay]

my last year

[glacial bronze]

Caught cheating?

[vapid jay]

im also on probation too.

should I?

[glacial bronze]

?

[vapid jay]

if I showed u my transcript anyone would think twice about accusing me of cheating 😂

[glacial bronze]

So you're about to drop out due to poor performance?

[summer roost]

Well... Why are your grades low?

[vapid jay]

my curriculum we learnt mostly java, and im taking a self learning course where you choose any langauge, i chose python, but we have to apply oop concepts. it's just not registering.

I'll likely be kicked out before i could drop out

[onyx locust]

i don't think a uni can kick you out for bad grades, unless its a very prestigious uni

[vapid jay]

they can if you failed the same courses more than once.

its even on my probation contract

[vapid jay]

poor execution likely, last semester is mostly self-learning courses where im not talking to professors.

[queen bough]

where can i get help

[vapid jay]

in person lectures are important to me

[glacial bronze]

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/javascript/javascript_objects.htm @vapid jay read through the concept in JavaScript,

[vapid jay]

help with what?

[vapid jay]

ok

[queen bough]

i figured it out

[glacial bronze]

He skipped the help channels and the general

impressive

[smoky quest]

I completely understand the stress and how bad you must feel.
But the good news is that OOP is something you can grasp and understand with some effort. So I would recommend to be a bit more specific with regards to what is not registering and where do you struggle so the members of this community can guide you and help you.
I also recommend https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Object-Oriented-dp-149207800X/dp/149207800X as it's a great intro to OOP and will help you think more in terms of OOP and why and how they help

[vapid jay]

Can anyone tell me the authentic source for learning python from basics.

I need to prepare for the data analytics profile.

My MBA course will start from 1 august

[queen bough]

nvm cuh i didn't peep my help channel fr me

[tawny crane]

what do you guys think of while i’m learning a new language i record videos on the curriculum im learning it from and post it on youtube as a journey for “x language” so while i’m learning im teaching. Honestly wouldn’t even be on the sole purpose for the youtube i just like the idea to be able to teach what i learn and go over it even if i post a years worth of content and get 0 views i’d be fine with it simply for the database of my notes and what i learned from this language and curriculum .
Any and all opinions are encouraged!

“ that is the best way to learn something is to teach it“

[vapid jay]

i require some assistance but have no idea where to ask

trying to compile an IDA plugin but like I'm pythonically challenged so yeah, if anyone could help i would greatly appreciate

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
You are asking for help in the wrong place though. you should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[smoky quest]

If you want to do it because you want to make videos, sure.
But doing all these videos is a lot of work and will be a distraction from the actual learning of programming. So be aware that it will make your journey longer

[tawny crane]

that’s one of the cons that also arises in my head
instead of maybe a chapter by chapter maybe even just something small to database what i’ve learned so i could retain that information and source it back if i ever got foggy on a subject

[smoky quest]

Taking notes is definitely helpful!
Even after years of coding, I still take notes and even have a private blog where I can jolt down ideas, diagrams and notes

[patent grove]

i have a question -- i recently did this part time internship with a company and they offered me a part time role while still at school for $38/hr. He said the full time role should be higher than base 76k or whatever. How much $/hr do you guys think the full time role will be?

just off an educated guess, maybe someone has more experience than i do guessing salaries

like how much should i expect?

[smoky quest]

depends on the role, location, and level. Someone with a BS could make 100k+ across the USA

[pulsar drum]

You can look up salaries for similar positions in your area online to get an idea.

[fiery rose]

Im a react native Developer. I learned it through tutorial.
I want to switch to data science and ML im in college 3rd year .
What should i do and learn. I hv no experience . I live in india