suggestions

[dense cedar]

And then an auxiliary channel

Reserved for questions about the certain levels

In English

I think we can work on that

Not necessarily question channels perhaps

Maybe just generals for the certain levels and such and questions yes?

Not extremely chatty general

That will be advised to move to General

More like uniquely about German or B level resources and help

[fathom fulcrum]

Well, my comments aren't final. I'm just trying to understand more about the idea. So we will still discuss it along with other suggestions as usual. But it's likely that this idea will not be accepted unless you have a good justification for why it would be beneficial and how people would use it.

[shadow linden]

I mean obviously our point should get through, I wouldn't obviously say 'Genau wie dieses Beispiel, hier wird ein Dativobjekt eingeleitet', this would force them to use translators.

[fathom fulcrum]

Yes, that's why you're meant to use beginner level of German (as opposed to English).

Using a few complicated words is fine though. It's a good learning experience.

[shadow linden]

Ahh alright I think I have laid all of points, is there still a chance of the suggestion being considered?

[dense cedar]

I'll have to make a new reformed suggestion about this I think

Turn loose ideas into a final implementable and definitive idea

This could go alot of ways

[fathom fulcrum]

All suggestions are considered, by the whole staff.

Basically I'm just saying that we've talked about concepts like this many times over, and generally there's no practical way to make it happen.

So we'll see.

[spice plaza]

nsfw channels?🐧

[lone mist]

Lass die Pinguine aus dem Spiel 😢

[spice plaza]

reactons to my suggestion? 👆

[wide zodiac]

@spice plaza this is an answer to a similar suggestion. Also keep in mind that if you want to submit a suggestion, use the Make a suggestion button below

[spice plaza]

ik

but i dont like that btw

I want everyone to see my suggestion

[shadow forum]

if you scrolled up or tried the button, you'd see that suggestions get displayed publicly in this chat

[spice plaza]

@shadow forum hello?

and i want to see reactions!

[sand bramble]

Sure, you're welcome to do that, but only suggestions made using the bot actually get into our discussion list and get considered. Everything else is merely you collecting opinions, and it's not treated as a suggestion.

Though as the reactions to this one have said, our rules explicitly prohibit NSFW content, and members have voted against a NSFW channel in the past, so we won't be adding one.

[spice plaza]

but my suggestion is also not serious btw

"🐧"

[shadow linden]

@hearty ridge

[hearty ridge]

Yesterday i disagreed your suggestion
Today i feel like it's a good thing xD

[dull horizon]

Fridge

Suggestion by Fridge

Description

A role that makes it clear to users whom to ask regarding any questions they have about anything related to the German language. I would like to see this added since a user having the Native Speaker role does not automatically make them ready to help others. A specific role would mosg likely help differentiate between the natives willing to help and the ones simply being there.

Advantages

German learners are able to target any questions they have more easily towards people who are willing to help and are thus less likely to wait a long time to receive said help.

Disadvantages

Possibility of people abusing the role by claiming they are ready to help witbout staying true to that statement. This can be avoided by having users with the Native Speaker Offering Help submit a report of whom they have helped with what at the end of a specific period of time.

Additional comments

Ich bin selber Muttersprachler und würde sehr gerne anderen helfen. Diese Idee sollte es anderen ermöglichen, mit mehr Leichtigkeit Hilfe zu bekommen und genau tu wissen, wem seine Frage(n) zu stellen.

[grand niche]

most* and zu* fast typing does not appear to be my thing

[fathom fulcrum]

@grand niche The way that it works is that if you want help, you ask in one of the questions channels. Is there a reason why the current approach doesn't work in your opinion?

[grand niche]

It’s not that it doesn’t work, but despite my short time of being in the server I have seen people not receive responses to their questions by anyone. A role they can ping might help, although that could get quite spammy. Sure, there are channels for everything, however some users looking for help appear to not always get noticed by potential helpers due to the sometimes quite large amount of messages sent in each channel.

[fathom fulcrum]

despite my short time of being in the server I have seen people not receive responses to their questions by anyone
Do you mean in channels like #general or do you mean in channels like #questions ?

[grand niche]

Some users ask their questions in #general, others do in #questions. As of now, I have only noticed a user not getting a reply by anyone in #general, though

[fathom fulcrum]

In that case, I would say that it's the user's own responsibility to understand that #general is never a good place to ask a question if you want an answer. I personally believe it's better to teach people how to use the server correctly than come up with a workaround for them because they aren't willing to look at the channel list.

I mean, think of it this way. What motivates someone to ask a question like that in #general ? Typically it's because they join the server and can't be bothered to even see what channels are available, right?

Because it's common sense that your messages will get missed if you post in the #general channel of any server.

For people who are really concerned about their questions getting missed, we implemented a channel #942470380692590632 where it uses a forum style to make it easy for people to see open/unanswered questions.

[grand niche]

You do raise a valid point. I suppose it is up to each individual user to understand that they are to ask their questions in the respective channels dedicated to the topic they are inquiring.

[grand niche]

I have noticed that, it looks like a Reddit forum and most likely encourages users browsing through the channels to keep an eye on this one specifically as it sticks out of the crowd, even for an inexperienced Discord user. On that note, I believe my suggestion has been proven to be non-essential. Rather than implementing additional roles, users should be aware that they should ask questions in the correct channels

[dull horizon]

AG

Suggestion by AG (please correct me)

Description

So , like I am in a spanish server and they have a bot which allows us to translate a particular text from eng to spanish, So I was thinking maybe we can do the same in this server?

Advantages

It would make the server more interactive along with helping new learners to identify new patters

Disadvantages

Will have to add a bot for that , its like translation of the week or smt.

Additional comments

Pls think of it

[cold violet]

?

[wild aurora]

So it's just random texts for practice purposes ?

[cold violet]

yes I think they are generated by the bot only

People can open a thread in which they can translate it into german

and then others can correct also

it can be a good excersice for everyone wheter they are A1 or B2

[wild aurora]

Mh it sounds like #study-tasks but with a bot to me 🤔

[cold violet]

I think that the existing #study-tasks are also a good practice but I believe that they are not frequent enough like once a month and also its more work like first we have to make a doc and then send and I believe it would also be a little difficult for others to correct , wheras in this everything is inside discord only. So my suggestion is to keep #study-tasks but also add this for someone who are a more intensive learner

and like maybe we can also add smt like some type of reward so that people get intrested in correcting

[fathom fulcrum]

What about if a person just picks a sentence and posts it themselves instead? Would that work for what you want?

[cold violet]

Yes But I think it would be better if we do paragrahs instead because in 1 sentence we cant do much

What are u thinking but

[fathom fulcrum]

Sure, both work. But I'm just saying that it would make more sense for someone to manually pick a sentence/paragraph and post it rather than going through all the work of making it a bot feature.

[cold violet]

And 1 more thing I like abt that bot is that the topic varies from each other everytime so that we dont use same vocab

[cold violet]

yes , I agree but like I dont understand what u mean, the person has to write a para himself and send?

[fathom fulcrum]

Well, let me clarify what you want. You want a bot to post a paragraph into the chat and then learners translate the paragraph. Is that right?

[cold violet]

yes

[fathom fulcrum]

Why can't a person just post a paragraph then?

Instead of a bot.

[cold violet]

Who will post

[fathom fulcrum]

Anyone.

[cold violet]

So in that , then one person would send a para in eng and we have to translate

?

[cold violet]

It has both advantages and downsides

[fathom fulcrum]

What are the downsides?

[cold violet]

Like then I dont think anyone would be willing to first send a paragraph and then correct it also...

what do u think

[cold violet]

secondly I dont thinnk that people will care to make the topics versatile so we would not get practice of new vocabulary , but it has an advantage of not making a bot

[fathom fulcrum]

Well, even if you made a bot, someone has to put texts into the bot. Who do you expect to do that?

[cold violet]

good point

[fathom fulcrum]

So instead of having a bot (which just adds extra steps) someone can just post a text themselves.

[cold violet]

But then how will they correct

[fathom fulcrum]

The correction part would be the same anyway.

A bot can't correct a text. It's not possible.

[cold violet]

like word doc

[fathom fulcrum]

Word doc in #writing if it's a long text or just post it in #questions if it's short.

Or just set up a time with someone who's good at German and practice together with them.

[cold violet]

Why cant we create a shortcut for opening a thread

[fathom fulcrum]

Shortcut?

[cold violet]

Like cant we use threads for this

[cold violet]

no by mistake

[fathom fulcrum]

Sure, you can have a thread in #942470380692590632 for getting a correction.

[cold violet]

So , then can we like instead of a month do once a week

in writing ]

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean you can post as much writing as you want technically. Of course keep it reasonable since other people have to have time to correct it but there's no official limit or anything.

[cold violet]

No I mean #writing

[fathom fulcrum]

So do I.

[cold violet]

Ohhh sorry , I mean #study-tasks

[fathom fulcrum]

Yes, people can post study tasks weekly.

If you mean you want @lapis nymph to post more frequently, you will have to talk to him directly.

You can discuss that in #community-discussion if you want.

[cold violet]

Yes, I would ask him then

thx for your time

[dull horizon]

CaptainCuddles

Suggestion by DauerAzubi

Description

Ich bin für Pronomenrollen, die wie die anderen über den Bot geregelt sind.

Advantages

Mir ist es gestern zwei Mal passiert, dass ich Leute misgendert habe, was wegfallen würde durch solche Rollen. Außerdem könnte es Anfängern helfen.

Disadvantages

Es könnte potenziell dafür Sorgen, dass ein paar queerfeindliche Individuen sich auf den Schlips getreten fühlen, was aber an sich nicht schlimm ist

[dull horizon]

Artemis69

Suggestion by Artemis69

Description

I would want to see a new voice channel just for Beginner people(A-level role) only

Advantages

This would help beginners learn in a easy and understandable enviroment and not feel too stressed or oeverwhemled.

Disadvantages

The A-level beginners might learn some incorrect grammars or pronunciations.

[shadow forum]

@hidden frigate

[hidden frigate]

SORRY😭

[dull horizon]

DaHailo

Suggestion by DaHailo

Description

Hello, I was wondering if we can have some sort of program in this server.

Advantages

Art can be associated with gains in math, reading, cognitive ability, critical thinking, and verbal skill. Arts learning can also improve motivation, concentration, confidence, and teamwork as well! I was thinking of an art program in this server because people can draw pictures and post amazing art. I know we have arts-and-crafts but I was thinking of it being as a program. The art program is a way to help people express how they feel with their amazing and artistic skills! I think it can also be a fun activity for people to do instead of being in devices all day. Not only that but if we have it through this discord server it can let people in this server communicate directly through voice, video, or text with other members in this server in order for them to be friends. I think this can also help gain more popularity in this server for increasing members as! I hope you take my request seriously and like it!

Disadvantages

Downside about this is that in schools out there, Art School/Programs can be Expensive and this art program can help promote artist in this server and out there who has artistic skills!

Additional comments

I hope you take my suggestions seriously and like my idea!

[hidden frigate]

@shadow forum I finished

[fathom fulcrum]

@hidden frigate What exactly do you mean by an art program?

[hidden frigate]

When I say an art program I mean we have a channel in this server where we can post art pictures. The art program is basically where people use art different techniques or visual media like painting, drawing, sculpture, and graphic design. Basically I was thinking I can teach students to think creatively by providing them with the instruction and resources that will enable them to fulfill their artistic potential. Every week everyone presents their artifact/drawing or something of anything and we basically express how we feel about the drawing. Sometimes we can have themes in this art program. Example, today theme can be anything heart related. We draw or make something that is heart related things.

[wild aurora]

@warm grove feel free to reach out to us in #report-issue if you have questions about the rules or our moderation
I have removed your post because it's not suitable for this channel

[warm grove]

Alright

[fathom fulcrum]

Okay, makes sense. Is there a reason why you don't want to use #arts-and-crafts for that?

[tame spade]

Duo bug report: Reference code: 4322184 >>> Wondering what I need to do to get this fixed. It is a recurring problem. I file bug reports and no one responds, the problem has never been fixed.

I know someone is going to tell that duo does not respond to bug reports but I am paying for this and I want this issue fixed if that is to continue.

[tacit relic]

Why are you reporting a duo bug here

[dull horizon]

emarkatsko

Suggestion by emarkatsko

Description

Make an ISO (in search of)/ask to DM channel, where people can give permission to DM and describe their purpose for learning.

Advantages

It would let people have a place to ask for DMs without it being awkward. Also, who knows who actually wants someone to chat with one on one? You wouldn't probably, a lot of people are rather shy. One on one could give people more attention, that they may need. And it's a way to make close pals : )

Disadvantages

There's the possibility of people being creepy in DMs (i.e. nudes, asking for addresses), and the responsibility for those actions may be misdirected at the server staff. Also, if it's not a language exchange (as this server is meant for learning German, not other languages), then there might be both an imbalance in power (a problem for the non-German speaker) and fairness (a problem for the German speaker). And lastly, it can make the server more cluttered.

Additional comments

Please do not message me and/or say that I suggested this, in response to this idea. I'm sensitive to criticism. Also, if this channel exists but I didn't realize it somehow, please do not act condescending as though i should already know. I have ADHD, it's hard to see what is actually there when there's a lot of channels.

[dull horizon]

Pferd

Suggestion by Pferd

Description

Spamfilter in #lessons während eines Unterrichts automatisch deaktivieren

Advantages

Die arme Leute wird nicht gemutet, wenn sie Antworte in #lessons geben lmao

Disadvantages

Trolls oder Bots könnten in diesem Zeitraum unbegrenzt spammen.

[lapis nymph]

nein, ich habe einen Tippfehler gemacht

||oh und Die armen Leute werden ... sollte es sein ||

[dull horizon]

queenv

Suggestion by queenv

Description

I would like to see a channel for users aged 21+. I'd like to make (hopefully) lifelong friends with people who are my age/aren't teenagers.

Advantages

Users over the age of 21 can chat to one another without worrying that they're actually talking to a minor. This is also beneficial in terms of friendship as it is more likely that users over a certain age will share similar interests (obviously, German is at least one of those).

Disadvantages

This channel would be hard to moderate as it is difficult to prove someone's age - there would need to be some form of age verification in place. Additionally, younger users may feel left out.

Additional comments

I'd love to make more friends. If a channel or server like this already exists please let me know. Thanks!

[dull horizon]

@mystic dirge, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Thread creation in various channels like beginner channel, questions etc

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We find that threads are too hard to moderate since they can pop up at any time without notification, so we are against the idea of letting users create threads themselves. However, we have the #942470380692590632 which acts like a questions channel with threads, and we are looking into ways to apply forums, as well as mod-created threads, to other channels too.

@dense cedar, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion 394 has been marked as a duplicate of suggestion 393.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

in lessons, beginner German, and other learning related channels, allow for the creation of threads

:small_blue_diamond: **Duplicate suggestion**

Thread creation in various channels like beginner channel, questions etc

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We find that threads are too hard to moderate since they can pop up at any time without notification, so we are against the idea of letting users create threads themselves. However, we have the #942470380692590632 which acts like a questions channel with threads, and we are looking into ways to apply forums, as well as mod-created threads, to other channels too.

@strong plover, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Erarbeitet eine klare Antwort, warum sogar die Meta-Diskussion über das Thema Pornographie und die gesellschaftliche Rezeption von Pornographie selbst ein "NSFW" Thema und damit auf dem Server verboten ist. Dass Pornographie selbst verboten ist, denke ich, ist klar. Aber meiner Meinung nach, ist die Diskussion über Pornographie nicht pornographisch.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

When discussing this matter, we decided that we prefer for our rules to be kept more general, and decide this on a case-by-case basis. We do not explicitly condone discussions about NSFW topics, as we have seen that they often tend to go in inappropriate directions.
We understand that some people prefer having rules that cover every possible case in detail, but we don't think this is realistic. Instead we think that it's okay for us to discuss the interpretation of the rules individually with people who want a more in-depth explanation, since a large majority of users don't run into the edge-cases of the rules anyway. We are however committed to not punishing anyone for something they could not have known because it was not mentioned in #rules without talking to them about our interpretation of the rules beforehand. You'll never run into problems if you apply reasonable judgement of what people might find disturbing, and drop a topic when instructed to do so by the staff team or another user.

@gleaming ridge, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion 399 has been marked as a duplicate of suggestion 265.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

A Meme Channel! Like a Channel where everybody on the server can share funny meme pictures or videos. I dont know if its hard to make a channel like this but it would be very cool!

:small_blue_diamond: **Duplicate suggestion**

a meme channel

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

This suggestion has been denied many times in the past. Such a channel offers no value to the server and potentially only causes issues with memes that go against our rules. If you're having a conversation and you need to post a relevant meme, you're welcome to do so, but we do not encourage random off-topic meme dumps in any of our channels.

@twilit steeple, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Add football to off topic tab , where people chill and talk about their favourite team or discuss upcoming matches.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

A sports channel has been tried in the past. It was up for about two months, and received very little activity, with even people who were interested in sports telling us that they prefer just using #general instead of going to the channel, after which we opted to remove it. Therefore, we don't think that an even more specific channel would do well here, but we note that there are plenty of servers specifically dedicated to sports that can provide a space for such discussions.

@coral plank, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

when you react with a certain emoji on a message it will translate to English (just for you)

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

Due to the way Discord works, it is impossible to send a message to only one user after they react to a message. If we were to implement this, it would therefore lead to all translations being posted in the channel itself, and it would quickly get messy. In addition, most good translation services are not free to integrate into external applications, so implementing this would cause extra costs for us.

@sterile zealot, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

In a Python server with around 350 000 members, there is a really effective questions channel system, basically there are bunch of question channels, and anyone can "occupy" them with sending their question there, after that question the channel is "their's" and the people that have "Helpers" role (here it would probably be "Native speaker") can help the person that posted the question. After the question has been answered, the person that asked it can close the channel with a command and therefore free the channel for someone else.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

The #942470380692590632 which is currently in testing already provides this functionality.

@dense cedar, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

An intermediate channel, mostly for speaking at an intermediate level in German or asking for intermediate advice from other B level learners, not as basic as #beginner-german or as advanced as #german-only

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We don't think that splitting people up by level even further would help, as people are already struggling to even use #beginner-german correctly, and a lot of users also have trouble correctly determining their levels. While #german-only does attract a lot of native speakers, there is also a decent number of Level B and C speakers in there already, so we feel that this channel can host both intermediate and advanced-level conversations.

@shadow linden, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion 404 has been marked as a duplicate of suggestion 403.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Instead of Beginner German and Germany only, we can have there Channels
-Beginner German (Both English and German allowed)
-Intermediate German
-Advanced German

:small_blue_diamond: **Duplicate suggestion**

An intermediate channel, mostly for speaking at an intermediate level in German or asking for intermediate advice from other B level learners, not as basic as #beginner-german or as advanced as #german-only

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We don't think that splitting people up by level even further would help, as people are already struggling to even use #beginner-german correctly, and a lot of users also have trouble correctly determining their levels. While #german-only does attract a lot of native speakers, there is also a decent number of Level B and C speakers in there already, so we feel that this channel can host both intermediate and advanced-level conversations.

[dull horizon]

@grand niche, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

A role that makes it clear to users whom to ask regarding any questions they have about anything related to the German language. I would like to see this added since a user having the Native Speaker role does not automatically make them ready to help others. A specific role would mosg likely help differentiate between the natives willing to help and the ones simply being there.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We think that this message is best expressed in the user's nickname where it is visible by everyone, or in their about me section. Roles tend to get overlooked, especially since we don't have any other roles that give information about the users who have them, apart from proficiency roles.

[dull horizon]

@cold violet, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion 406 has been marked as a duplicate of suggestion 401.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

So , like I am in a spanish server and they have a bot which allows us to translate a particular text from eng to spanish, So I was thinking maybe we can do the same in this server?

:small_blue_diamond: **Duplicate suggestion**

when you react with a certain emoji on a message it will translate to English (just for you)

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

Due to the way Discord works, it is impossible to send a message to only one user after they react to a message. If we were to implement this, it would therefore lead to all translations being posted in the channel itself, and it would quickly get messy. In addition, most good translation services are not free to integrate into external applications, so implementing this would cause extra costs for us.

[dull horizon]

@buoyant copper, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Ich bin für Pronomenrollen, die wie die anderen über den Bot geregelt sind.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We don't think roles are a good solution for this, as there isn't a developed culture of checking roles to get information about users on this server. Currently, Discord is testing an in-app system to add pronouns to your profile, in addition to the about me section that already exists.

[dull horizon]

@split drift, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion 408 has been marked as a duplicate of suggestion 325.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

I would want to see a new voice channel just for Beginner people(A-level role) only

:small_blue_diamond: **Duplicate suggestion**

A beginner VC

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

The Practice Room voice channels are meant to accommodate beginners. Naming is always difficult, since if we name the channel "Beginner VC" people ask for a "Practice Room" VC, and the other way around. Nevertheless, regardless of the name, the channel is meant for German practice, allowing bits of English where necessary to explain things, similarly to how #beginner-german works.

[dull horizon]

@hidden frigate, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Hello, I was wondering if we can have some sort of program in this server.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

Since we are primarily a language learning server, this suggestion isn't something that our moderation team is qualified to organize, or even has the resources to organize on their own. If you'd like to start something like this with friends, you're welcome to do so in #community-discussion or #arts-and-crafts.

[dull horizon]

@terse fable, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Make an ISO (in search of)/ask to DM channel, where people can give permission to DM and describe their purpose for learning.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

We currently have the #introductions channel where you can do this. In the last suggestions round, we accepted to look into options for creating a space to find study partners, which we are currently working on.

[dull horizon]

@lapis nymph, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been accepted.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

Spamfilter in #lessons während eines Unterrichts automatisch deaktivieren

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

This is planned, but is waiting on scheduled events to be properly supported.

[dull horizon]

hallö_hierchen

Suggestion by hallö_hierchen

Description

Please stop having the Leibniz bot send an automatic message in beginner-german so often.

Advantages

We will not have to read and see the same message 50+ times a day. The channel is already functional without being reminded of what the channel is every five minutes.

Disadvantages

I can see no downside to this suggestion. Anyone confused about the channel's purpose can easily read its name, description, or ask someone talking there.

[fathom fulcrum]

@jaunty violet Thanks for the suggestion. This suggestion will be responded to formally later but I will just give a quick response now to provide some additional info.

1. The message is only meant to be temporary anyway. We plan to remove it at some point.
2. Regarding your comment "Anyone confused about the channel's purpose can easily read its name, description, or ask someone talking there", I also previously thought that information was clear, but apparently it is not. We had to make an announcement, add the sticky message by the bot, and actively moderate the channel, before people would stop misusing it. We're hoping this will improve now that we've taken those actions.

[jaunty violet]

thanks for the clarification 😄

[crude orbit]

suggest add #942470380692590632 to #channel-directory

[dull horizon]

Thank you, your suggestion has been submitted!

[sand bramble]

Is there a reason why you didn't use the button?

[crude orbit]

yes, laziness - i do like the form, just not when im as hungover

[wild aurora]

laziness
time to disable >suggest

[nocturne ruin]

so um, my suggestion still hasn't been addressed... can this be looked at please?

[sand bramble]

Suggestions are discussed and reviewed roughly once every two weeks.

[dull horizon]

meg

Suggestion by meg, B2/C1

Description

I was wondering if we could have more intermediate lessons, levels B2/C1? The server lacks those.

Advantages

Users who are already intermediate will get to improve their German drastically. It is my belief that it is much easier to reach levels A1 and A2 by yourself online, rather than levels B2 and C1. With that in mind, it would be efficient to offer more intermediate lessons, since there’s already not many being offered online.

Disadvantages

It won’t be appropriate for everyone, so maybe the audience might be smaller at first.

Additional comments

I hope there’s enough staff who could make this realized.

[dull horizon]

@gritty geyser, your suggestion has been answered.

Suggestion has been rejected.

:small_blue_diamond: **Suggestion**

I was wondering if we could have more intermediate lessons, levels B2/C1? The server lacks those.

:small_blue_diamond: **Response**

For suggestions or requests regarding types of lessons or learning content, please comment in #community-discussion . Lessons are a voluntary event run by community members. They are not run directly by the moderation team. The #suggestions channel/command is only used for suggestions that the moderation team can action.

[gilded swan]

[Ich poste das nochmal hier, weil hier vielleicht serverinterne Diskussionen möglich sind]
Ich denke übrigens das Hauptproblem in Bezug zu beginner-german und german-only ist, dass eine Sprache nicht wie ein Videospiel trivialerweise einfach so in der Schwierigkeit heruntergestuft werden kann.
Punkt 1: Sprachen spielen sich beim Verwenden derselben stets im Unterbewusstsein ab. Ergo schreibt in dem Chat einfach jeder jene Ausdrücke und Wörter, die einem gerade in den Sinn kommen, ohne sich größere Gedanken zu machen, wie man seine Gedanken gerade ausgedrückt hat. Dieser Effekt ist umso stärker, je besser man eine Sprache beherrscht. So werden bspw. Natives im beginner-german Chat nur mit Anstrengung "einfaches" Deutsch benutzen können.
Punkt 2: Was ist eigentlich anfängerfreundliches Deutsch? Sind die Anzahl der Wörter begrenzt, die man benutzen darf oder Konjunktiv komplett verboten weil es ja zu kompliziert sein kann? Dürfen Metaphern nicht verwendet werden und sind vielleicht feststehende Ausdrücke ganz verboten? Wie beurteilt man anfängerfreundliches Deutsch? Ist da vielleicht die Anzahl an Themen begrenzt oder es darf nur oberflächlich sein und nicht zu abstrakt werden. Wird dadurch die Sprache nicht unnatürlich und viel weniger ausdrucksstark? Damit kommen wir zu:
Punkt 3: Sind unnatürliche "fehlerhafte" Ausdrücke von Lernenden/Natives gewünscht zum Zwecke der Sprachvereinfachung, da sie ja als Übung dienen? Geht man damit nicht das Risiko ein, dass der gesamte Chat mit einem Deutsch gefüllt ist, welches so alles andere als gutes Deutsch ist? Kann man als Lerner nicht im Grunde Sachen die man nicht versteht einfach übersetzen lassen - Stichwort deepl? Wo ist dann das Problem mit "normalem" Deutsch.
Versteht mich nicht falsch. Eine deutliche einfachere Sprache kann Lernenden helfen, wenn sie dadurch verständlich wird. Nur scheint mir die Situation da in der jetzigen Form nicht optimal gelöst zu sein

[fathom fulcrum]

I don't really see any of these points as genuine issues in the context of #beginner-german . You are correct that you can't draw a clear line between what is beginner or advanced German, in most cases. But it's also not really necessary to do so, and we don't moderate the channel that specifically. Most people can intuitively understand how to speak a language in a way that is accessible to a beginner. It's really not a complicated thing to do. Of course some people may not enjoy simplifying their language, but those people should just not use #beginner-german since it's obviously not for them.

Basically, you can just look at the conversation and qualitatively assess whether it is beginner friendly or not. It doesn't need to be defined in exact rules, and defining it that exactly wouldn't really be possible anyway. If anyone who is an advanced or native level speaker cannot understand this concept, the channel is simply not a suitable place for them and they can use #german-only instead.

[gilded swan]

Most people can intuitively understand how to speak a language in a way that is accessible to a beginner

• What is your ground for this assumption?
  If anyone who is an advanced or native level speaker cannot understand this concept, the channel is simply not a suitable place for them
• Maybe you can clear it up for people who don't understand. Simply stating this only cleverly alleviates the need to address any criticism.

On top of that, actively discouraging advanced speakers from using the channel would result in much less language awareness, where we end up with a bunch of learners using a language they can't really express themselves in.
Sure the argument is "Practice makes perfect", and while this statement in itself is not wrong per se, it doesn't really apply in this context as it only applies when the exact result of the practice is clear to us. With playing an instrument we all have a very good idea of how good music sounds, thus we can mostly correct ourselves and simply improve by practicing. However with language, the result (fluency) is everything, but obvious to us. It consists of a myriad of words, expressions, collocations and patterns that our brain needs to adapt to. And there isn't much creativity involved as people might assume. For a beginner being creative will almost always result in unnatural use of the language, as in a language people just say certain things a certain way. Filling gaps in your language is also often done with other languages you know, which in turn will also result in unnatural patterns.
The best practice a learner can get is making their brain structure adapt to the language as it's naturally used by natives. And this won't happen in a beginner chat. It might even happen that your brain adapts to common mistakes by learners more than actually natural German, if you engage in this kind of beginner environment too often. Which will drag out the time it takes for your brain even more.

[serene timber]

This. I do not notice people trying to write simple German in #beginner-german, I myself am a culprit of this.
The people that I'm mentioning are the native speakers and the level Bs and Cs.
But again, it's very hard to gate what is beginner german or not, considering that a lot of people don't make it out of A level because it's too complicated.

And to be honest, you can't even go that far before you're using slightly more advanced grammar structures. More doubts will always pop up because of word order and declination.

Most of the time it feels like there is no distinction between the two channels. The very beginners are stuck with the basic greetings and sentences, and that's ok! I think the point of this server (feel free to correct me) is to provide guidance in learning resources and make available opportunities for conversation with natives or fellow learners, not necessarily walk you through every single step of the way.

[fathom fulcrum]

Yes, exactly. The main issue we have is people using #beginner-german just the same as they would #general or #german-only . We're working on trying to improve that. We did make an improvement in discouraging people from using it like #general by being more strict about the usage of English, but we haven't done much yet to tackle the problem of people using it as a second #german-only .

And by that I mean Level B, C and native speakers taking over the channel and speaking in a way that's pretty obviously excluding beginners.

[fathom fulcrum]

Sorry but your point is just not clear to me. I don't know how any of what you said relates to the channel.

[serene timber]

Yep that's my biggest gripe with this whole deal. Both of the channels being pretty much the same thing and people just flocking to the most active one.

[gilded swan]

What exactly is not clear to you?

[fathom fulcrum]

I appreciate that you've offered feedback, but I personally have no idea how to take that feedback and apply it to the situation. I don't see any comment that really applies to #beginner-german .

[fathom fulcrum]

Yeah, it's possible that's just not a problem that can be fixed, but we will try our best to find a solution.

[gilded swan]

No one is excluding beginners. They can always join the #german-only as much as they want. If they have difficulties understanding, it's the perfect opportunity to improve by looking up word perhaps or asking question in the chat which most people would be happy to answer.

[fathom fulcrum]

Can you provide some actionable feedback? That might be easier to work with.

Like is there something you actually want us to change or are these just general thoughts about the problem?

[serene timber]

I think he doesn't see the point of the beginner channel

[gilded swan]

ok then TLDR:
An environment with only beginners is highly at risk of hindering their language acquisition. Keeping advanced people actively away from there makes it even worse.

[fathom fulcrum]

Agreed. That's why we strictly avoid anything that resembles that.

[serene timber]

I mean in a world where the channels were used the proper way I could see what you're talking about

[gilded swan]

You agree to that? So what is the point of #beginner-german then?

it is an environment of beginners and you are considering keeping advanced speakers away from it

[fathom fulcrum]

I think you've misunderstood how #beginner-german works.

[fathom fulcrum]

No, no one has talked about keeping advanced speakers away from the channel, as far as I know.

There are quite a lot of active native speakers and Level B speakers in the channel and we encourage that.

[gilded swan]

But you also say that it's an issue that advanced speakers take over the chat.

[fathom fulcrum]

The only thing we're discouraging is advanced speakers going there to speak only to each other and ignore beginners or speak with overly complex language and slang. Everyone who uses #beginner-german should have some part of their mind thinking about if what they write is beneficial to a beginner. Whereas in other channels like #german-only , they can just talk however they want, with slang or without consideration of a beginner understanding them.

[fathom fulcrum]

Yep, exactly.

[gilded swan]

So getting back to the root issue, I would like you to elaborate on this, as I'm not sure what your base for that is. As apparently many people are using #beginner-german wrongly often, which if this statement is true, they would not, right?
"Most people can intuitively understand how to speak a language in a way that is accessible to a beginner"

[fathom fulcrum]

As apparently many people are using beginner-german wrongly often, which if this statement is true, they would not, right?
Nope. Most people misuse it because they don't care about using channels correctly and can't be bothered.

And I don't know how to better explain the idea to you. It's just fairly simple to look at a text or comment and understand if it's something a beginner would struggle to figure out or not.

I mean, there are people on the server who write stuff that even other native speakers have trouble understanding. Something like that obviously isn't beginner-friendly.

[gilded swan]

Yeah, but when a beginner struggles, it is not a bad thing. It's a good sign that you are learning something if it isn't easy for you

[fathom fulcrum]

Agreed.

In some cases.

There is good and bad struggling.

[gilded swan]

How are we distinguishing though?

[fathom fulcrum]

No need to get into this. Like I said earlier, feel free to provide some actionable feedback if you have any.

If your suggestion is to remove the channel and your comments are your argument to support that, we can just leave it at that.

[gilded swan]

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just trying to provide some input on a meta discussion regarding #beginner-german and #german-only which many many people before me have raised concerns about.
My goal is to raise arguments which in my pov seem to make it not so clear cut. Thus perhaps starting discussions on which end, we might modify some things, to make this apparent issue be solved. Not arguing against #beginner-german just providing thoughts on the issue at hand.

[gilded swan]

why not btw? If you don't have time right now we could continue later, no problem

[fathom fulcrum]

The discussion has been ongoing for years, so "starting discussions on which end, we might modify some things, to make this apparent issue be solved" is not really necessary. We're aware of issues with the channel and we're always working on improving the situation, as I already talked about. At this point, the only thing that's really beneficial in the current context is actionable solutions. If anyone has a serious suggestion of some change they want to see to how a channel works, they can provide it and we will consider it and we'll be very grateful for their suggestion. Otherwise, the mod team is working through the issue with our own ideas anyway and we will simply try our best to keep improving the server.

And please keep in mind that for any changes we make, we have to take time to observe the result. Whether it be creating or modifying a channel, we want to see the result before jumping to the next change. So if it seems like we're just ignoring a problem, don't worry - it usually means we're just taking time to understand the situation before making changes.

But thanks for your thoughts, it's always good to hear feedback from server members so we can get a better picture of how the server is working.

[gilded swan]

There will always be discussions. And I think it's a good thing. You seem to be a bit annoyed by it.

[gilded swan]

My and other peoples concerns hopefully get considered when making further improvements. As my "point is just not clear to" you I hope I could clear that up. As I deem these important considerations.
"So if it seems like we're just ignoring a problem, don't worry - it usually means we're just taking time to understand the situation before making changes."

• If that's the case I highly appreciate it as the current solutions really seems to be everything but ideal for the server

[fathom fulcrum]

My and other peoples concerns hopefully get considered when making further improvements.
Yeah, we always try to come to the best resolution for everyone. But keep in mind that everyone wants different things, so not everyone will be satisfied with the end result, no matter what decisions are made.

[dull horizon]

Xemo

Suggestion by XE

Description

Rooms specific for practising language per level

E.g. a room dedicated for A1/A2 practise

Advantages

More focused learning as each person can practise at their own level in the langauge which will help the learning more. Plus it will also help give easier access to those who want to help beginners specifically or intermediates.

Disadvantages

Ah i have none, i dont see any real downside for this idea.

[fallen finch]

Es sollte ein Nativespeaker Rank geben, aber für leute mit ner 5 im Zeugnis

[dull horizon]

doodleTaco

Suggestion by doodle, god of chaos (nur de :>)

Description

Pin a message or put it somewhere easy to find with frequently denied suggestions (eg A1 chat, meme channel, misusing like stuff for #community-meta). Maybe in the current button message? Like "Check the pins for frequently denied suggestions."

Advantages

It's easier to see than scrolling up. So it may be slightly less likely to resuggest things.

Disadvantages

People may also just continue to not read it and suggest anyways.

Additional comments

Probably have somewhere with the why, so people know why its been denied a lot.

[jaunty violet]

kinda building onto that suggestion, I don't know the precise logistics of it, but wouldn't it be possible to have the bot recognise certain patterns/key words that are associated with repeatedly suggested (and rejected) topics and to either auto-reject or send a sort of 'are you sure this hasn't already been suggested' message with a link to the associated rejection ?

[wild aurora]

it's on our to do list for the bot actually, but currently other projects have priority

[gritty geyser]

Hallo zusammen: Vorschlag: Einrichtung eines Quizbots zum Sprachlernen.

[wild aurora]

benutz bitte den button oben :D

[gritty geyser]

Wat denn fürn Button?

Achso

[dull horizon]

tortuga

Suggestion by tortuga

Description

Enable a Quiz-Bot for learning german. One could use embedded quizes or develop own.

Advantages

People enjoy gaming and learning. Must be fun to quiz

Disadvantages

may be premium version of quiz-bots are not for free. quiz-database must be filled, some work to do.

Additional comments

as a long term project the database raises. so i think worth to give it a try.

[jaunty violet]

awesome 😄

[limpid lodge]

But we reeeaaally love reviewing the same set of suggestions every 2 weeks!

[wise moon]

as someone who is a level
when i read a level texts its quite effortless to me, when i read b level texts i have to put some mental effort to understand and not just click translate
and when i have c level texts i just want to close my eyes and click translate