open-beta-discussion

[abstract trench]

i think its just an enable/disable checkbox and a parameter for radius

[lyric bough]

well nvm I just uploaded avatar only to PC version

and I was on Quest

I had an idea and my whole idea was ruined. I wanted to make a head that can be taken with PhysBones

;-;

or maybe not whole 🤔

if neck can be grabbable

[dense gyro]

You can do it on a puppeted PC avatar

[finite trellis]

er, how do i exit the beta?

ive swapped back to the live version but it uh

didnt work

[hollow hatch]

You are on Quest probably. Remove VRChat from the Quest, wait maybe an hour, reinstall

Make real sure you are switched to the live channel before you reinstall, also restart your Quest

[finite trellis]

i am not on quest, actually </3*

[hollow hatch]

Quest is the only one that has that issue. Steam is just do the reverse you did to get in. If it doesn't work, restart steam, try again

[finite trellis]

weird
alright

[hollow hatch]

If it really doesn't work, just uninstall the game

[finite trellis]

okay, thank you :'o)

[signal condor]

so i havent tested this, but is there a way for other users to interact with your bones with more colliders than just hands, or a way for your bones to interact with more colliders than just hands on other users avatars?

[grim epoch]

how do i give the quest avatars physbones

[signal condor]

convert them in unity

[grim epoch]

how?

i downloaded the sdk, but no option popped up in unity

[signal condor]

did you download the beta sdk or the normal sdk

[grim epoch]

beta

im pretty sure

[signal condor]

did you get it from the channel in the discord

[grim epoch]

yeah

i think i found it

[signal condor]

also the avatar needs to have dynamic bones already for the auto-convert to work, if not you have to add them manually

[grim epoch]

i think i found it, i had to look for the actual script lol

[signal condor]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[grim epoch]

im stillpretty new to unity

[stable mantle]

Nope. Only custom cross-player interaction is contact senders/receivers.

[signal condor]

contact senders/recievers and the colliders that come on everybodys hands

[timber jewel]

Player to Player interaction:
Contacts:

• Hands
• Fingers
• Foots
• Head
  -Torso
• custom ones (depending on if the tags match)

Phys Bone Collider:

• Hands
• Fingers
• no custom colliders

[stable mantle]

Unfortunately.

I wonder though if the PhysBone limitation is a performance thing or a safety thing?

If it were safety you'd think they'd give PhysBones optional contact tags like senders/receivers.

[signal condor]

safety would make sense

but that sucks

[hearty ore]

How do I fix?

[warm cedar]

I have a feeling you're running out of ram there

[hearty ore]

Yeah

Ima check my ram when I do this again

Oh yeah and It crashes unity when I upload it

[warm cedar]

keep task manager open at all times, this could be a memory leak

[hearty ore]

The editor bumps up to the top of my thing then drops

It does nothing?!

[stable mantle]

Oi mate, Well There's Your Problem.

[hearty ore]

Oh.

WTF?

[stable mantle]

Unity is trying to fill 790.274GB of RAM.

[hearty ore]

WHA?

How fix? My brain is smoked.

[signal condor]

uhhhh

[stable mantle]

I have no clue. Both why Unity is requesting that much nor how to fix.

@warm cedar might be right though: could be a memory leak or something.

[hearty ore]

Im pretty new to this kind of error.

[stable mantle]

Same

[hearty ore]

so HOLY Im pretty screwed

[stable mantle]

Never seen it in my life.

Let alone requesting that much RAM.

[hearty ore]

Im special~ Not

Wait.

[stable mantle]

That's, like, NASA in 2040 levels of RAM.

[hearty ore]

I fixed it.

I lied

[stable mantle]

Oh?

[hearty ore]

I broke it worse.

[mental marsh]

Nah just get terabytes worth of ram

[hearty ore]

everytime I get the error and close it unity dies

Ima remove shader packages

[stable mantle]

A link I found says that it's related to "temporary assets" that get created at build time: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/67933471/memory-allocation-error-unity-at-compile-time

[hearty ore]

and replace em

[stable mantle]

Temporary Assets in this case would probably mean, like, the VRC upload plane, the VRC camera, the Luna AV3 emulator controls, etc.

Anything that's creating assets on the fly that get destroyed later on.

If I'm reading correctly.

[hearty ore]

Ok

THAT

May mean that this dumbass bandage asset I made for this cally3d model Is fucking me over OR

Sorry for the language.

Its creating prefabs.

Everytime I upload it.

A ton of prefabs

[stable mantle]

O

That might be it yeah

[hearty ore]

Ok Ima remake the main prefab

[stable mantle]

Because the VRCSDK creates a prefab, singular.

But if yours is generating a TON of assets it's probably hitting Unity too hard as it tries to manage them all.

[warm cedar]

Look I program in c++ daily, I know a memory leak when I see one

But holy crap, up to 700GB+? that's new

[hearty ore]

I may test a dif scene

Well I should test

[stable mantle]

To me it sounds almost as if it's creating assets recursively, and just erroring out at the biggest number Unity can hit.

[stable mantle]

Lmao.

[hearty ore]

Well

It only happened when I tried to upload this the 2nd time on pc

[stable mantle]

Did you try prefabing your model and putting it in a fresh scene with nothing else?

Drag the root model, the object with the VRCAvatarDescriptor, from the Hierarchy to a folder in the Project explorer to create a prefab.

Then create a new scene and drag the prefab from the project explorer into the scene.

It should retain all the features and parts of your model, anything nested inside, etc.

[hearty ore]

No not et

Ok Ima package up the main avatars

[stable mantle]

Do you have multiple avatars in your scene?

[hearty ore]

No

Its a avatar package and I have one scene with the main and the other scene with secondary

Ima crash unity one more time

since that project will probs be deleted

This should fix it?

Yeah IT DID

is the contacts editor important?

[stable mantle]

Contacts Editor????

[hearty ore]

Hey

Yeah VRC SDK Dynamics contacts.

Idk cuz my avi uses some contacts

But it’s all preset

[stable mantle]

If you mean the Contact Receiver/Sender scripts, those define custom contacts.

I don't know of any editor.

[hearty ore]

Yeh

I’ll be on beta to see if I screwed anything

[stable mantle]

Is this what you meant?

As part of the VRC Avatar Descriptor?

[hearty ore]

Idk

[stable mantle]

Like I genuinely want to know: A) what fixed it, & B) what you meant by the contacts "editor".

[hearty ore]

I took most of the project to a new one and 2 I am assuming like senders and receivers or maybe colliders idk

[stable mantle]

I mean if you want custom senders/receivers, yea it is important.

For example, my thumbs have senders on them that send "Finger" "Finger [R/L]" & "Thumb [R/L]" on them.

But if you have no need for custom reception or sending anything on a non-standard part, then no they're not important.

Avatars come with a preset number of senders

[hearty ore]

I’ll check what broke on pc in a bit

[wheat fjord]

Can you make your own recievers that collider with physbones for your own avi or is it only hands and fingers?

[hearty ore]

Yeah

Colliders search scripts

[stable mantle]

Those are colliders.

Receivers/Senders: Avatar to Avatar interaction.

Colliders: Single-Avatar Collision

If you have PhysBones on your avatar, you can create colliders on the avatar and then add those colliders to the list on the PhysBone of colliders it interacts with.

You can't have your colliders interact with someone else' PhysBones (yet).

—
Receivers/Senders can be used for things like advanced interaction triggers.

E.G. When someone boops my nose with a Finger, my receiver triggers a Float value that sets a "blush" animation state.

Think of Senders/Receivers like invisible tripwires and the items that can trip them.

If a sender & receiver type match, it trips.

[sweet dragon]

Good explenation

[stable mantle]

Defining custom colliders is only useful for preventing clipping on your avatar, or rigging up advanced, self-only dynamics.

E.G. I have a "Torso" capsule PhysBone collider from shoulder to shoulder. — On my ears' root-PhysBone, I have registered the "Torso" PhysBone collider. — This prevents my ears from clipping through the body, and instead they rest on my shoulders.

[sweet dragon]

Wait so the same i can do with tail to not clip throo my leg or...

[stable mantle]

With my tail I cheated and instead set a angle limit on a curve.

[sweet dragon]

A yes true.

[stable mantle]

So at the end of the tail it's full range of motion, but where it connects it's about 45º.

But my tail is a goat's tail so it is pretty short.

For a longer, more dynamic tail, a plane collider on the back of the avatar would be best.

Prevents the tail from moving in front of the avi.

[sweet dragon]

Yep i have at least 9 bones in tail. (Avatar from pfp.

[timber jewel]

I also use a plane collider for the floor

[stable mantle]

Clever, but for myself I don't see the use as that's one more collider for VRC to complain about.

[unkempt hornet]

hey i need help w sth. i justdownloaded vrchat n i wanted to make my own avatar, i downloaded the sdk but it wont open? can some1 help me

[stable mantle]

Are you working with the beta SDK?

[unkempt hornet]

yeah

[sweet dragon]

Basic questions y have Unity?

[stable mantle]

It's mostly the same as the normal SDK, with the addition of PhysBones & Avatar Dynamics.

[bright jungle]

If you just downloaded the game, you won't be able to make an avatar as you'll still be Visitor rank

[unkempt hornet]

?

[stable mantle]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/creating-your-first-avatar

[sweet dragon]

Unity program for upluoading , edits

[stable mantle]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/setting-up-the-sdk

The SDK for VRChat is just a plugin.

[unkempt hornet]

i alr made the avatar but idk how to upload it

[stable mantle]

Did you make it in blender?

The first link I shared details what to do.

[bright jungle]

Once you're New User rank or above with a VRChat account, you'll need to download Unity 2019.4.31f1, the most recent version of the VRChat SDK, and some modelling software of some kind, likely Blender c:
https://vrchat.com/home/download
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/setting-up-the-sdk
There's lots of SDK3 tutorials out there (i.e by Sippbox, M.O.O.N, the official VRChat learning channel, and etc), along with channels like #avatar-help, #avatar-rigging, #3d-modeling and etc

[stable mantle]

I'd recommend not working with the beta SDK if this is your first avatar upload. Get used to the process, and how the SDK works, before trying out the new toys.

[unkempt hornet]

alr thx yall :)

[stable mantle]

@hearty ore Just in case you don't know (IDK if you do), PhysBones require PhysBone Colliders, not regular colliders. Just wanted to differentiate those. — Not sure if this is related to what was going on.

[hearty ore]

I do, I am kinda planning to make a to add a guitar strap to a model that I have and idk how I should do it.

Now I got a question

Ok avi one has a gun with a contact that says shot. another avi has a contact reciever that is called shot. will it work? or no?

[stone rapids]

Can anyone point me in the right direction or help me out with having an item be able to be picked up off an avatar with the new SDK? I know how to make a physbone able to be grabbed, but how do I make it where it can just be freely dragged around and carried as one pleases?

The idea is my avatar holds out and item and another user can pick it up and then hand it back

[stable mantle]

The contacts will, if they both use the same contact type. So if both are labeled "Shot" then it'll trigger as long as the contact is registered. — Just up to you what you do with the receiver's parameter at that point.

[stable mantle]

In all seriousness though, the best you could do is have a chain of bones connected to the object, that way it could be moved within X radius of the avatar.

But it'd be like a dog on a chain, @stone rapids. Even with "stretch" at the max, it'd only go so far from the avatar.

[glass cloud]

dont be shy put some more

[stone rapids]

Certainly an idea! I remember the example avatar they have where you can take your phone off your hip and move it around. That was why I was curious.

[stone rapids]

That’s okay! Doesn’t need to go far

[stable mantle]

My pendant can move on my avi like this, so i can pick it up and look at it.

[stone rapids]

I appreciate the info!

[stable mantle]

With stretch values you can make it go pretty far with minimal bones too.

[stone rapids]

I haven’t touched the stretch values. That’s just the slider on the physbone settings, right? (Not at the computer at the moment)

[stable mantle]

Yeah. It bases the stretch length based on the base bone lenght, so smaller bones stretch less at the max (5).

You'd also need to probably use 2 root physbones, @stone rapids: One on the object at the end of the "chain" and one at the start of the chain.

Setting a radius on the bones makes them grabbable, but based on my knowledge, you can't use curves to make some bones grabbable in the chain and some not: it'll still have a radius throughout, it'll just be microscopic in places.

By using 2 definitions, one at the chain start, that isn't grabbable, and one on the object that is, you can make the object grabbable without having people messing about with an invisible chain.

[stone rapids]

Got it! I much appreciate all the details, my friend!

[lyric bough]

yeah

there is only 1 thing I miss

single bone grab

just if I give head to front of my body it's looking down and rotate cause it's connected with neck

[stable mantle]

Right now the solution I think is to set a separate bone on the grabbable parts, and set the root bone to "ignore" those grabbable child bones.

E.G. The neck and head would both have PhysBone components, and the Neck PhysBone would be set to ignore the Head Physbone (so it doesn't duplicate bones).

IDK if it'd work with bones so close together though.

I haven't really tested this myself. Just what I've heard around.

[lyric bough]

so set PhysBone to Neck and Head?

🤔

[stable mantle]

I think?

[stable mantle]

You'd set this on the neck to "1" and drag the head to the empty element slot below it that appears.

(After you add the bone to the head)

Im not sure how that will effect physics though. It depends on the desired effect.

[lyric bough]

well this will turn off grab radius

completely

that's why I said I miss single bone grab

well cause it's work like that if you set it in neck you can grab everything that is child of a neck if you set it to head you can grab everything that is child of head

so if I choose neck set ignoring head and set head ignoring other it's childs it will just end with only dynamics without grab

[hearty ore]

I tried to mess with my ears and they dont work

but work in the scene

[lyric bough]

do you upload avatar on right platform?

[hearty ore]

yeah

Its on andriod rn

and I go to play with my ears and they failed to work

and my bandage wrap also failed

[lyric bough]

are you on beta version on Quest?

[stable mantle]

Yeah like I said for your case with the two bones so close together in a chain I wasnt sure how it'd work.

There is feedback on the canny for many more Dynamics features, and you can file your own if you cant find relevant feedback in the list.

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta

[stable mantle]

Make sure you are on the test/beta channel on Quest. Open the store on the Oculus App or website linked to your Quest (make sure you're signed in), and click the version number.

[hearty ore]

I figured the bandage out

Yeah I did

since my avi has bohongas

[stable mantle]

lmao

[hearty ore]

if they are fondlable then Im in beta

That is the quickest test to see if I am in beta

[stable mantle]

le-mao

[hearty ore]

Ok I fixed one of the things

[lapis ivy]

how im confused

its not working

[stable mantle]

?

[lapis ivy]

like how do you get avatar dinamiscs

its jto working

i cant figure it out

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info

You need both an avatar dynamics avatar and the beta client.

[lapis ivy]

(username in vrchat: knot_knox1177)

how

?

[stable mantle]

I literally linked you to #open-beta-info

It describes how to join the beta on all platforms.

And theres an official world with test avatars.

[lapis ivy]

ok

[stable mantle]

BTW: Are you restarting VRChat between uploads?

[hearty ore]

No

They fixed that a while back

[stable mantle]

Not for me

[lapis ivy]

i already read everytthng i needed

but how do you join

[hearty ore]

Oh

[stable mantle]

Join what???

[hearty ore]

weird?

[lapis ivy]

beta

and get avatar physics

[stable mantle]

🤦

[lapis ivy]

IM LOST

ok

i need an extra hand

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[real bridge]

┬──┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ) There you go

[lapis ivy]

like im j the world

it aint helping shit

[stable mantle]

If you followed the instructions in #open-beta-info you should be on build 1184 (as of current) — You can check that in the Launch Pad, under the ⚙️ icon, on the "debug info" section.

After you install the beta client, you need an avatar that supports dynamics to really test it out. By default, avatars only have basic dynamics that do nothing on their own. — There should be an official world labeled Avatar Dynamics in the thumbnail in one of the top lists.

Note: You can only play with people on the beta, in the beta. You cannot play with "live" users.

[lapis ivy]

(im on oculus)

[stable mantle]

Check your build version as I note in my last message.

[lapis ivy]

oops

[stable mantle]

If it's 1171 or 1173 you are not on the beta.

[lapis ivy]

still confused

how

im still confused and dont hnderstand how to become a beta

understand*

[stable mantle]

If at this point you're having this much difficulty, you probably shouldn't join the beta. It's very difficult to exit and you can't play with other people on it (outside of beta testers).

#open-beta-info literally lays it out step by step on how to join. And I laid it out step by step on how to check your build version.

[lapis ivy]

i understand but which link do i use

like which one do i click??

[near grove]

Go to your web browser on oculus and go to the oculus website then sign in then go to the top left corner and scroll down to store then search vrchat note: it will bring up the oculus store just click out of it and pull up the oculus browser again then scroll down to version and click beta

[lapis ivy]

like i read everything about the physics but didnt get any howto

WHAT??

[near grove]

Follow what I just said step by step

[lapis ivy]

hold up slow down

[near grove]

There isn't any other way to explain

[stable mantle]

It literally tells you which one to click based on your platform.

[lapis ivy]

how

do i log into oculus

inside vrchat

or out

??:?)$$;7,

tf

[stable mantle]

||reading comprehension: crit fail 🎲||

It lays it out step by step

in #open-beta-info

As easy as it possibly can be.

Do 1. then 2. then 3. then 4.

If you can't figure it out still, you are best waiting for Avatar Dynamics to be released.

E.G. if it says "log in to Oculus___.com___ it is probably telling you to use a web browser.

The beta is not for everyone, as it wont magically give you avatar dynamics, and it is fairly frustrating to uninstall on Quest.

[lyric bough]

well avatar change when you switch to other and back to this what you do

you don't need to restart whole game

[stable mantle]

Doesn't work for myself.

Only for others.

[lyric bough]

🤔

[stable mantle]

Why I asked.

[lyric bough]

interesting

[stable mantle]

I think it's a caching bug.

It's pulling the locally cached version of the avatar, rather than reloading.

[lyric bough]

maybe try to clear cache or idk

and reinstall

[stable mantle]

Sometimes switching avatars → switching worlds → switching avatars back works. Sometimes.

[stable mantle]

That's unnecessary if restarting VRChat works.

A good force of habit on Quest is just to quit VRChat between uploads is all I was trying to say to @hearty ore.

[lyric bough]

but it take too more time

🤔

[stable mantle]

Clearing cache and reinstalling doesn't fix it for me. So you're wasting even more time with those suggestions.

VS. maybe 15 seconds loading in.

[lyric bough]

yeah

[stable mantle]

It's just about 15 seconds to a minute depending on your homeworld.

So it's not a major inconvenience.

And it ensures you're not testing an "old" avatar and thinking it's broken.

I've been stung by that too many times on Quest.

[lapis ivy]

what fi i did ehat the steps did

made my verison open beta

then what

and it didny change?

[stable mantle]

Did you check you build version inside VRChat like I told you to?

#open-beta-discussion message

[lapis ivy]

yes

i did

[stable mantle]

What number is it?

[lapis ivy]

1172

[stable mantle]

Then your Quest hasn't refreshed yet to install the update.

[lapis ivy]

ohim installing it

[stable mantle]

Can I ask why you want to use the beta, @lapis ivy ?

[lapis ivy]

oh

because everyone has it, and ive bee curious about it

ty

[hearty ore]

I am going to reweigh the rig on one of the models to create moveable limbs

How would I beable to make that work?

[stone rapids]

Is there not a way to prevent another player from grabbing a physbone, while being able to grab it yourself?

[bright jungle]

disable interactions in the quick menu settings/set to friends only

[plucky owl]

nobody has to go into the SDK's plugin folder and reimport all the plugins?

[hearty ore]

Ok

[stable mantle]

?

[dim cloak]

@warm cedar I can't remember if it was you, or someone else that asked my how I did the motion for my lightsaber and leaving it in the world. But, I did just post my video explaining how to make the lightsaber and it runs through how I attach it to my hip, hand, and drop it in world space. If you didn't ask me this and it was someone else then sorry for the ping, but I was pretty sure you asked lol.

[hearty ore]

Oh eya

That reminded me

Most of my contacts are completely buggy

actually all.

Lets say two people are in the same world, one enables to contact but on there end it doesnt work, or it doesnt get put away.

[dim cloak]

You need to network sync them if you aren't already.

[hearty ore]

Net what?

Im using a prefab avi and pretty new to these

How do I network sync them or is it a checkmark thing.

I am stupid

@dim cloak May you explain what you mean?

[dim cloak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raQRXfH_GZE Here is a video I made explaining how to make a network synced variable for the contacts system, if ya have more questions after watching it just let me know.

[hearty ore]

Thank you.

[grim epoch]

where do i put bug reports?

[balmy egret]

read pinned message

[grim epoch]

thank you

gonna see if the same thing happens on pc as quest before i make the report

[hearty ore]

Is there a way to limit movements on a vr player?

Like have joints be animated but unable to be fully controlled by a player.

[stable mantle]

I think non-humanoid joints can but humanoid bones get overridden unless you use a VRC Tracking Control component in an animation state.

And even then, even with non-beta stuff, what you can limit is, well, limited.

E.G. i have to reposition my avatar on the Y axis after moving pose space (the camera) on my lying down animation: head tracking also rotates the body. — There's no option to lock the upper chest/body rotation, as VRChat links that to the head in standard VR.

— If I don't reposition the body AFTER moving the camera, the legs are flattened and the body contorts. Despite the legs/feet being locked to animation.

[hearty ore]

Im first going to do this port rq

Cuz I got a idea of using physbones

since they do resist movement

Question

nvm this is a avi rigging thing

[near grove]

quick question, do i have to reinstall to switch back to the live version?

[hearty ore]

On quest yes.

If this does not work 1 you did it wrong, or 2 some data from beta is in your headset and requires a factory reset for it to work again, BUT only do this if you loose vrc when you install it and it deletes itself.

[stable mantle]

On Steam, i think it can overwrite to the live version.

On Quest, you gotta follow these steps:

1. Uninstall VRChat
2. Go to the Oculus App or Website, and pull up VRChat (Quest) while logged in
3. Scroll to version under details and select it/click it
4. Switch to the LIVE branch
5. Open the store on the Quest
6. Go to VRChat's store page
7. Confirm the version number matches the website/app under More Info.
   7a. If it does, install.
   7b. If it doesn't check back until it does. Do not install until the version matches LIVE.

[jovial thorn]

Anyone know how to add physbones to parts of a model like hair? I converted one of my avatars and all the physbones work except for the hair

[dim cloak]

Functions the same as dynamic bones, just add a component where you want the physbones script to be and tweak the settings.

[near grove]

Wheres the best place to go to meet people

[sand ember]

Does anyone know when the official update for Avatar dynamics is coming out ???

[stable mantle]

Probably not too soon.

[sand ember]

Ahh got you I tried it out but I don't like staying in the beta alone with out my friends

[stable mantle]

On the beta? Depends on who you know on the beta, since it's not net-compatible.

[next spire]

add the component to the root bone(s) of the hair

[jovial thorn]

Ah okay, thank you, I’ll try that

[keen nova]

Does anyone have the link to the docs page that goes over performance ranking with the new physbones?

[bright jungle]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system - you can switch to the beta docs at the top-left of the docs page c:

[timber jewel]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#pc-limits

well, I suppose you were faster 😅

[bright jungle]

ye but linking to the pc limits and down is more helpful lmao

that page is longe

[timber jewel]

I actually didn't even do that on purpose xD

[bright jungle]

lmao

[keen nova]

Ah, useful info, For as much as I've looked at the docs, never seen this button before lol.

[urban salmon]

@dim cloak Hey can I dm you?

I'm doing something a little similar to the forcefield you did but I'm just curious what you used in poiyomi to show the bullet indent.

[warm cedar]

my question would be how in the world you would do that on quest, given there is no transparancy

[near grove]

Or you can just switch to live uninstall and install it again and login

[near grove]

Or you can just switch to live uninstall and install it again and login

[stable mantle]

I take it you didn't mean to reply to me?

[stable mantle]

Probably can't. Best idea i can think of is, like, a wireframe mesh, or possibly an inverted sphere — due to Unity's backface culling, the inside of the sphere will be visible whilst the outside will not. This would allow the sphere to appear around you, rather than in front of you.

Only problem though is that would look great outside the sphere, but inside the sphere visibility would be limited to the edge of the sphere. And you wouldn't be able to do any special effects for when it's hit since those typically require shader tricks.

Realistically, a wireframe would be the way to go if you wanted something "clean".

Though if you, say, only showed the inverted sphere temporarily, that could work. — You could even possibly get some "hit" effects this way.

E.G. you could either have a gesture set to spawn the field, or you could have the field's contact active at all time, and activate its mesh on hit.

With the latter, the field would be visible for a few seconds with each hit, before disappearing again.

[dim cloak]

Sure ^.^

[cinder lotus]

Why is my avatar broken in open beta

But my other avatars arent

Its only one

[shrewd heron]

IS there any news on Open beta being natwork compatable with Online in Quest?

[mortal plume]

that will happen when AD is out of beta and pushed to live

[shrewd heron]

is there any spesific time when that will happen

[mortal plume]

nope

[shrewd heron]

is it possible to tell how far we are to the open beta.

[mortal plume]

we're already in the open beta lol

closed beta was 3 months iirc, then open beta started

and at some point it will be out of beta

[warm cedar]

I'm giving it 3-5 more weeks

could be hell lot more

but That's my personal prediction

[shrewd heron]

i will possibly say that i might take maybe a month. Personaly i have no clue i just think it may take that long.

[warm cedar]

4-5weeks IS a month smartass xD

[shrewd heron]

i know

no need to 'smartass' me

[final ferry]

I think it will be this week

And 1-2 more weeks

[shrewd estuary]

i expect a bit more than that

[timber jewel]

I expect a new beta this week, but a release? no clue

[signal condor]

yeah cuz there wasnt a new iteration last friday

a release id say in 1-2 week cuz a lot of the stuff seems to work pretty well

although i would want avatar to avatar colliders other than the hands

[mossy python]

I highly doubt 1-2 weeks

I’d say between 1-2 months lol

Specifically thinking around 5 or 6 weeks

They still haves some stuff to fix lol

[timber jewel]

Have you made a canny for that?

[mossy python]

I have no idea how I did it or how to replicate it, so not worth making one

[keen nova]

Hey guys, is there a standard world most people on beta are using.
I kinda want to test stuff, but don't want to have to explain to people how to get on the beta branch.

[timber jewel]

the Avatar Dynamics Hub

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_f995a2eb-7ddc-4558-aef1-815c3b23df6c

[keen nova]

Thanks bud.

[rain niche]

when are they gonna make it so we can join none beta people?

[molten cobalt]

the code changes between the regular version and the beta means that's not possible

[rain niche]

oh ok im just stuck in beta whenever i try to reinstall the normal version it wont install

[molten cobalt]

https://i.gyazo.com/81355a065bdc5a227aa278c64fbffd7b.png not sure if it's help but doing some searching for the quest problem

[stable mantle]

You can also just link to the message :P — Though there's a better one of mine that step-by-steps it.

#open-beta-discussion message

[molten cobalt]

good point. Thanks for the better link

[near grove]

when will phys bones be released to the public?

[molten cobalt]

open bettas usually don't have a concrete release date for when they go live

[shrewd estuary]

gotta love the default unity skybox

oh yeah pretty sure the button behind you in the loading screen still isn't updated to the new ui

[mossy python]

I think that’s intentional

Just as a sort of Easter egg if you turn around and ‘look back’

[shrewd estuary]

it's just always looked off because of how it's never been updated imo

[mighty glacier]

no light source loading screen 💀

[timber jewel]

I hope we are getting a new Loading screen at some point, cause the current one is kinda meh

[shrewd estuary]

i like the song.

[shrewd estuary]

wait wait hear me out
old loading screen environment, with new loading theme.

or do those two not go well together

[timber jewel]

hmm what if there was no loading screen :o

So we would just download the next world while being in the current one

and then just swap over

[shrewd estuary]

the original creator of the new vrchat loading theme made a piano version of it so if the new theme doesn't work on the old environment they could use it's piano version and that could probably work

[shrewd estuary]

this would be cool too but what would the login menu look like

or would the login/startup menu be unchanged

[timber jewel]

hmmmm

[shrewd estuary]

id imagine itd be unchanged

[timber jewel]

idk probably

For safety also make it so the Home world would load the same way as it does now

so you can quickly leave a lobby

[shrewd estuary]

yea

or you could just toggle world downloading in background on or off

so that people who like the loading screen could have the option of keeping it while people who wanna download the world in the backround can also have the option to do that

[timber jewel]

true

[shrewd estuary]

this would be unchanged though, you'd still go to the home world the same way and the startup/login menu would still be the same regardless of what you have it set to

[timber jewel]

yup

[shrewd estuary]

this would be a pretty interesting feedback post, pretty sure one already exists though. not sure if it goes as much into detail as this conversation did though.

[timber jewel]

It probably already exist, at least I think I have seen one about this kind of thing before

[shrewd estuary]

yeah i remember seeing one too

[shrewd estuary]

i wonder how the "progress bar" would look when you decide to download the world in the backround.

would it look the same as the progress bar in the loading screen, but itd be in the bottom center of your field of view?

like itd be on the hud above the mic icon

[shrewd estuary]

or would it be on the bottom left or bottom right

[timber jewel]

maybe it would be a loading circle

next to the mic icon

[shrewd estuary]

oh yeah like a notification

[timber jewel]

with a download icon in the middle

[shrewd estuary]

and the more the world downloads the circle would fill up clockwise

[stable mantle]

wait wat

[timber jewel]

yup

[shrewd estuary]

yeah go to a world with a large file size and look behind you while in the loading screen

[shrewd estuary]

if the canny about this topic that does exist doesn't go into as much detail then we can try making a feedback post or something

[timber jewel]

maybe a bit better looking than that xD

[stable mantle]

Why not make the loading screen an elevator?

Play the generic jazz music that all the YouTubers play.

[shrewd estuary]

there'd be no inner circle, and the progress bar and download arrow would both be white. the circle around the arrow turns green clockwise

[stable mantle]

Maybe throw in a few whispered "Stanley"-s

[shrewd estuary]

that's what i have in mind

ill try to remake when i get home

[stable mantle]

I'm talking this but unironic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdR9dqnLC1k

[shrewd estuary]

embed failure

[stable mantle]

I commented out embed using <>

so it wouldn't fill the chat

[shrewd estuary]

skill issue

[stable mantle]

u happy

[shrewd estuary]

yes

[stable mantle]

Have this, with tips displayed as those in elevator framed posters you sometimes see.

Have a "cancel and go home" button on the panel.

[shrewd estuary]

this would make every world seem like a separate floor to this comically large building called "vrchat"

i like it

definitely wouldn't fit too well with the blue and yellow space aesthetic vrchats going for in their banners and stuff though

[stable mantle]

Just recolor the elevator, make it glowy. Neon lights at the top and bottom.

[shrewd estuary]

oh shit

maybe have the walls of the elevator transparent so you can see the vast emptiness of space

[stable mantle]

Transparency might be a bit much for a loading zone, since you have to remember Quest is a thing.

[shrewd estuary]

how about the walls of the elevator except for the doors and the panel and also the floor and ceiling just don't exist then

so you could still stare at the galaxy while being in an elevator

[molten cobalt]

I do wonder if vrchat loading screen was a elevator if the start spaces for a lot of maps would turn into elevator lobbies

[shrewd estuary]

thatd be so cool unironically

like how you spawn in an elevator in just b club iirc

[molten cobalt]

yup

[shrewd estuary]

ive never seen such a detailed discussions about loading screens in any other game

[molten cobalt]

I came in late so I probably missed most of it

[shrewd estuary]

you can scroll up to see the "downloading worlds in background" discussion that'll probably fire up again once i get home and draw my concept of what it could probably maybe look like

[molten cobalt]

yeah that would be nice to have a download in the background option as I always tend to get a bit of the short end of the stick in World hopping with friends because my is not terribly fast

[shrewd estuary]

im somehow always the one that loads in first when everyone goes into the portal at the same time

when the ethernet hits

[molten cobalt]

also would be interesting if World makers had a little more control on how like permanent portals in their worlds look so you could like make them look like they fit the environment better

[shrewd estuary]

floortals would finally be real.

[molten cobalt]

floor portals?

[shrewd estuary]

yea

[shrewd estuary]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/337243225649840128/829494558978998272/image.png

[molten cobalt]

that might be a little disconcerting

[shrewd estuary]

(image source: ron)

[stable mantle]

Why not just give us a portal gun at that point.

Portals on any surface.

[shrewd estuary]

proceeds to fire it directly Infront of another player

[shrewd estuary]

the portal dropping mode another user mentioned on the canny

[stable mantle]

For real though, portals could use some feedback so I dont look like a dumbarse standing in a portal thats malfunctioned.

[molten cobalt]

honestly I was more just looking for like you open a door and a square-shaped portal is behind it

[stable mantle]

Like maybe have you walk through it into the loading zone?

[shrewd estuary]

me and the bois repeatedly backing up and going back into the portal multiple times before it finally detects us going into it

(thank god they improved on this)

[stable mantle]

Improved, not fixed

[shrewd estuary]

yes

[stable mantle]

If we use the elevator idea, animate an elevator *door coming through the floor, and it opens, with the portal inside. "floor" sign above would display name, user, privacy, etc.

[shrewd estuary]

thatd probably take up space but sounds cool

[stable mantle]

If you do it right it'd be as big as the current portals, maybe slightly wider.

Just the doors and frame. Not the whole elevator.

[shrewd estuary]

that makes sense

[shrewd estuary]

ding! your lift to EBoy avatar world has arrived.

[stable mantle]

Going... down.

(To hell)

God this elevator idea has me so amused

[shrewd estuary]

would the elevator go back down into the floor for it's "despawn" animation

or would it just pop out of existence like how portals currently do

[stable mantle]

Go back down, with a "whirr"

[stable mantle]

I wonder if I should through a concept world together

[modest ivy]

I would love to see this

[hard pond]

so...new internal beta, for which be good question.

[humble pulsar]

Probably gearing up to release a new open beta soon

[timber jewel]

yup

[hard pond]

ik or physbone be good question by now. guess. xD

[timber jewel]

Phys Bones

IK never used the internal beta

[hard pond]

ahh clever

[timber jewel]

or live, that's also possible

but unlikely

[hard pond]

yeah, unless need urgent patch.

[gritty salmon]

hopefully not live, there were avatars outright broken on the current open beta (canny filed but not acknowledged)

[shrewd estuary]

i'd imagine it'd look something like

(just without the black backround, of course.)

(aand maybe make the circle a bit thicker)

whipped up in 2 minutes in the paint.net app

[timber jewel]

Looks good ^^

[shrewd estuary]

hang on let me whip up photosho

and by photoshop i mean paint.net

again

[timber jewel]

With Live I meant just a normal patch / Bugfix update for it.

There is no way Avatar Dynamik will go live anytime soon. We haven't even gotten any Release Candidate yet so yeah, really reallly unlikely that it would go live xD

[shrewd estuary]

whipped this up

paint.net can be a good editing tool and for what

[timber jewel]

👍

looks good ^^

[shrewd estuary]

yee

[shrewd estuary]

just noticed the fact i misspelled background

smh my head

[timber jewel]

backround

xD

[shrewd estuary]

the back is round.

[shrewd estuary]

if it makes this even funnier i put this on twitter with the same spelling error.

excellent at typing

[timber jewel]

xD

[bright jungle]

back🔵

[muted bloom]

Oh no you’ve been downvoted

[shrewd estuary]

ripbozo

[timber jewel]

[arctic rune]

just curious, does the open-beta branch also include ik-2?

[molten cobalt]

no

they're separate betas

[mossy python]

For reference the font VRC uses is Dosis, also needs to be fully capped to be consistent with the rest

Otherwise not bad

[shrewd estuary]

oh wait yeah i forgot to get that font

got it now thx

[mossy python]

I have tried on multiple occasions to mimic the VRC UI

[shrewd estuary]

now i can still misspell background but at least the font will be correct

[mossy python]

Lol

[lapis urchin]

I hate that I can only find people on the Avatar Dynamics Hub, even more so that all servers still show me the live server count, it makes it hard to find instances with people actually in it

[mossy python]

That is one thing I wish the beta did

[shrewd estuary]

when the not network compatible hits

[mossy python]

Prioritize lobbies with other beta players

Or show actual beta player counts

I’ve only seen other beta players in Just B Club and the backrooms

[lapis urchin]

the only time I see beta players outside of the hub is when someone in a large hub instance drops a portal

that or I'm in a private instance with other people

[candid field]

I’m on quest trying to revert back and it’s not working

[shrewd estuary]

oh yeah i like your new texture

its pretty cool

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-discussion message

[tardy mason]

Why do we get stuck in beta????

[shrewd estuary]

because facebook is shit at managing betas

try uninstalling vrchat, and waiting a bit. then reinstall

[tardy mason]

Ok thank you

[raw forge]

I'm more apt to click Hide Avatar instead of show if I see this

[mossy python]

Sounds like a you problem

[raw forge]

Nah I just like my frames

Not a problem for me if I see a robot

[mossy python]

No it definitely is a you problem when the avatar is actually very optimized but VRC's performance ranking system blows

[raw forge]

How does it blow

It's vague but works in 99% of cases

[mossy python]

Polygon limits need to be higher universally

It makes very little impact on performance

[raw forge]

Not at all. It makes a HUGE impact

[mossy python]

Are you high

Render calls make the biggest impact

Aka having 3 million material slots

[raw forge]

https://twitter.com/silent0264/status/1365127506924249094

Silent (@Silent0264)

Tip!

Though VRC doesn't count or penalize them like bones, shape keys are expensive. The cost scales with poly and shape count.

If your model is 50,000+ polygons, splitting face and body and removing all keys from body can improve performance for those around you.

#vrchat

Likes

112

Twitter · Feb 26, 2021, 2:32 AM

[mossy python]

If your avatar is 80k tris and has 1 material it will outperform an avatar with 20k that has 10 materials

[raw forge]

Render calls actually make less of an impact after the Graphics Jobs update

And no it won't

I promise you

[mossy python]

Yes the hell it will I have made direct comparisons before lmao

[raw forge]

In VRC?

[mossy python]

Yes

[raw forge]

How can you gauge it

[mossy python]

With both full and optimized mirrors

[mossy python]

Wear an avatar and look in a mirror, record average framerate

It's pretty fucking easy to guage lmao

In some instances VRC's performance ranking actually encourages UNOPTIMIZED approaches to issues

[raw forge]

Yeah run some blendshapes on that 80k avatar

See where it goes

[mossy python]

Okay here's the key

When you use blend shapes to customize an avatar

Apply them to the basis when you're done

And only use visemes and blinking

Nothing else is necessary

[raw forge]

Here's the better key:
Use bones to toggle objects, NOT blendshapes

[mossy python]

I don't

That's horrible for performance

Fun fact, bone scaling objects is almost as bad as shape key scaling objects

[raw forge]

Okay well you seem to have no desire to actually listen to facts

[mossy python]

The optimal approach is to disable the game object through an animator layer

But VRChat actively discourages such by making skinned meshes much worse for performance

[raw forge]

Sure

Whatever you say

Didn't know you knew everything about Unity

[mossy python]

Yes whatever I say because obviously I have a better grasp on performance

[raw forge]

Guess my 8 years means nothing

[mossy python]

I would know, I'm a quest creator and optimizing is fucking everything on Quest lmao

[raw forge]

Yet you give 0 craps about PC optimization

Incredible

[mortal plume]

bones are better than shapekeys yes, but completely disabling the mesh does help aswell, especially if the thing you're disabling is a separate material anyways

since it's already an extra draw call

[mossy python]

Because whatever is optimized on Quest is gonna be damn near perfect on PC

[raw forge]

Disabling the mesh is better than both however having a separate mesh in itself incurs another draw call vs a bone toggle that could be atlas'd

[mossy python]

Right

But then the object scaled by bones is never technically unrendered

It varies on a by use case

[raw forge]

However Shape Keys will hit performance with a multiplier on vertices count. Shape keys is the worst toggle option for performance

[mortal plume]

it could be atlased yes, but then you're increasing your texture size most likely, and it adds a lot of extra work when you're actively working on the model

so it's a compromise

[raw forge]

Right but the best comprimise

[mortal plume]

I personally stick to mesh toggles since it's by far the easiest to work on

[raw forge]

Nothing wrong with that

[mortal plume]

and I only ever have like 4 meshes enabled

since a lot of the toggles are clothes, which are mutually exclusive through parameter drivers

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-discussion message

Long Story: Branch Switching is a broken process on Quest and requires "handling with care" unless you are a developer with ADB access.

Short Story: Meta sucks, Follow the Steps Exactly.

[torn mesa]

https://gyazo.com/8b79de71671d1d1a6e20106c3d6f57a5

why is my skirt doing this?

[nova raptor]

I'm trying to upload an avatar and when I hit the check mark saying I can it gives me this error
Edit: Found out to fix it I needed to enable my camera

[sweet badge]

make sure that, at rest, no physbones are colliding with colliders.

also the physbones can become jank when placed on poorly scaled bones.

[near grove]

Man avatar creation seems hard lmao

[old rock]

People talking about raising the poly count limit in here and that's already a possible maximum of 5.6 million polys before the world itself if everyone runs at 70k in a full instance

Yeah no, give people an inch and they take a mile

[muted brook]

The issue is less the polys themselves, but more blendshapes, mats, meshes, etc.

The performance rating isn't really accurate, especially when you get into more advance features like multiple clothing options. It's more performant to have them on separate meshes so you can hide and show them, but you get a better performance rating if you have them all on one mesh and use blendshapes

[old rock]

Not so sure people want my 80 or so blendshapes for face tracking, visemes and gestures on a single 70k mesh

[warm cedar]

I usually ignore the performance system and use actual practical Unity optimisations, disabling objects is the biggest performance improvement. strangely enough

[inner creek]

What people seem to forget is nobody is stopping you from making a model with more polygons/ materials/whatever. It's other users that get to choose to see them.

[warm cedar]

^

[inner creek]

The 70k limit for good rating is a reasonable amount.

[warm cedar]

It is, as it teaches people to be optimised, Seriously all those e-girls could be made from 30k or less.

[inner creek]

Normalmaps work wonders.

[warm cedar]

Indeed they do!

Don't forget that 512x512 textures are still good, as long as you don't use low quality compression

[old rock]

I do enjoy these gorgeous looking Warframe models at 10k-20k polys

[molten cobalt]

also detailed maps exist

[old rock]

Normal and AO maps make the world of difference

[warm cedar]

Yessers

[inner creek]

I remember when there was a polygon limit for uploading. 20k was fun.

[old rock]

Biggest difference back then was the mmd textures

Everyone's avatars at 2MB download

Good times

[inner creek]

Bro. The first model I ever put in VRChat was a decimated mess that I had to learn to rig myself.

Ended up being like 50 separate meshes or something when I looked back at it.

[old rock]

Downloading off vrchat's CDN service is horribly slow, large avatars aren't fun to download

80 players pushing 4GB just to load the world

[warm cedar]

my public avi is 1.5mb

[inner creek]

When you look at someone's avatar stats and they are bigger than the world

[molten cobalt]

also very handy for tiling textures as well

[old rock]

I aim for 10MB, where possible

[molten cobalt]

yeah that's terrifying

[warm cedar]

Quest limit ?.

[warm cedar]

90% of all public e avatars

[inner creek]

Yup

[old rock]

Just personal limits, no mesh larger than half floats (65k), 2 skinned mesh renderers, 8 materials

[molten cobalt]

do you have much trouble keeping to those limits

[old rock]

Easy

[warm cedar]

I always go over the limits with props, but those are props so meh

[old rock]

Im medium rated because of 12 dynamic bones

Tempted to see if I can play with constraints with Phys bones to bring that down to 8

[warm cedar]

Physbonie

[molten cobalt]

I suppose you could test in the beta if the auto converted physics bones bring you to excellent?

[old rock]

Still medium, due to number of scripts

Good was bumped from 4 to 8

[warm cedar]

:] Beta

[old rock]

Stuff like front hair fringes or where you expect similar behaviour between nearby bones could be following a single bone with a constraint

Providing it doesn't look too out of place with colliders and player interaction

[serene crest]

is the default physbone transform limit still 32?

[timber jewel]

https://docs.vrchat.com/v2022.1.2/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#pc-limits

[small surge]

Quest one seem abit off , have a good one with 22 transforms = good still , docs say that would be medium

1 component over good too

[stable mantle]

When have the docs ever been accurate though?

[modest ivy]

performance ranks aren't correct for quest this sdk/beta

[timber jewel]

The current performance ranks on Quest are the same as on PC, it's a bug and will probably be fixed with the next beta update.

[hard pond]

interesting

[timber jewel]

Yeah kinda annoying, I updated all my Avatars on Quest yesterday with my new texture and Phys bones, no complaints from the SDK, but they didn't work ingame.

I don't really know why until the SDK tells me, so I guess I have to wait for the fix

[hard pond]

oh,,,,

[timber jewel]

(I hope for a new beta today)

[humble pulsar]

Same, I really want an update of sorts soon

[bright jungle]

ints and bools pls

my parameters would be vv thankful

[timber jewel]

(and more parameter slots)

pls

[molten cobalt]

constrain on quest would be very nice

[timber jewel]

yeah, that too

[serene crest]

would anybody happen to know why this isn't working? I'm losing my mind a lil bit

everything is named properly, it just won't detect _IsGrabbed (or any other parameter) in the animation

[mortal plume]

I asked earlier, are you using Lyuma's emulator?

[serene crest]

I have it imported, but I'm not really sure what all I should be doing with it all. Is there any documentation for all this so I don't have to keep bothering people?

[mortal plume]

you have to be using it if you want to be able to test your avatar properly

go to Tools > Enable avatar 3.0 emulator

and hit Play in unity

then click on your avatar to see all of the options in the inspector

[mint rover]

I've seen a bunch of talk about this emulator thing, what is it and what does it do exactly?

[mortal plume]

it essentially replicates all of the 3.0 functionality but in the editor, which allows you to test to make sure all of your avatar logic works properly. you can step through everything to see exactly where stuff is going wrong

[mint rover]

Oh awesome! Sounds really useful

[mortal plume]

newer versions also have support for OSC and avatar dynamics

[stable mantle]

Except Parameter Drivers. I've learned those don't fire still.

[mortal plume]

they do though

[stable mantle]

Not for me.

[mortal plume]

I use them all the time

[stable mantle]

Wonder if its a Mac bug?

[mortal plume]

maybe?

I think Lyuma has a discord

[stable mantle]

None of the parameter drivers in states fire in testing for me, so I assumed that was a thing it "couldn't do". Everything else seems functional.

‪¯\_(・–・)_/¯‬

[timber jewel]

well... I guess no new beta today

[warm cedar]

live patch though

that's something

[floral flint]

[raw oasis]

[dim cloak]

This is 100% not true. While I think Lyuma's emulator is great and I have no qualms with it, I personally don't use it and test my avatars fine without it. It is not a necessity for people to have to test avatars.

[mortal plume]

it really depends on what you're trying to test. you can't test stuff that is aplit across multiple playable layers easily without it

same for parameter drivers

only much simpler things like testing single animations/state machines in one layer can be done without it

[dim cloak]

Lol no

[mortal plume]

also, my original message could be interpreted two ways

1: that person in particular needed to use the emulator
2: everyone needs to be using it

I actually meant #1, but I think you understood #2

[dim cloak]

The first one might be true, but the second is most definitely not.

You can still simulate parameter drivers without Lyuma's addon, so it's still not necessary in my eyes.

The only time you would need it is to test across multiple controllers.

[stable mantle]

The emulator isn't necessary but it does make things easier vs. testing in game or driving parameters manually.

[dim cloak]

Most of the time people aren't doing overly complex things with parameter drivers anyway. I hardly ever have to fully test them and know they'll work in game. Again though, I do think that Lyuma's addon is helpful and can make things easier, I just would refrain from telling people that they have to use it to test, because they don't.

[stable mantle]

For myself i don't use parameter drivers often but some of the concepts and ideas I've made with physbones do, so for someone doing complex animation logic being able to test them is useful even though YMMV with the emulator.

Though nothing is as accurate as uploading/testing in game.

The emulator is more of a convenience factor.

[dim cloak]

I've typically found that as long as I understand what I'm building in the animator in regards to the logic, it usually works just fine with parameter drivers. They aren't really even that complex of a component to use, but I can see how they might seem that way for people that aren't as familiar with making animations and such (a large portion of the vrc community lol).

If you build solid logic in your animator and know what it's doing before it even actually does it in the animator, then your parameter drivers are likely just going to make things work more smoothly if anything.

[lavish arch]

the tool helps people visualise what they build and test it well before going ingame build test or just uploading it helps them understand what they are working on and should be known to the community
its pretty pog when it comes to testing and its faster to test with it personally never had a difference ingame or emulated if you follow the docs and use write defaults off it should work fine

[dim cloak]

Never said it wasn't useful or better. I just would shy away from telling people you have to use it to test. That is how misinformation such as, literally everyone thinking you need two keyframes in animations for them to work properly, starts and that's not good. No problems with recommending it to people at all, just don't present it as the only possible option is all I meant.

Heck, when people ask me about stuff when they first get into avatars I almost always recommend that they use Lyuma's addon to test things easier because it does work similar to in game. But, I don't tell them that they have to use it, just that it would be easier to grasp concepts and see how they translate into the game with it. I just personally don't use it, not for lack of thinking it's good or anything of the sort, just used to not using it and haven't had any dire situations causing me to need to use it.

But sacred cleared up the fact that I misinterpreted how they were saying what they said, which is understandable.

[stable mantle]

Honestly write defaults seems like a contested issue in and of itself. If an avatar is designed for use with it on, then turning them off can be detrimental. Vice if an avatar was designed without them.

But the emulator is a useful tool for intermediary testing when you don't have something fully uploadable or functional, but do need to test something for an idea or to check something.

Same with the 2 frame animations — there are fringe cases where they are more reliable, but it's about the design of the avatar and its setup.

In all, saying anything is necessary is heavy handed; the differences in behavior and methods should be described and weighed, so future devs can decide which works best for them.

[dim cloak]

Oh I 100% agree. There are use cases for things like 2-key framed animation, I use them for some things lol. But the thing is, they aren't necessary for all animation, which A LOT of people that I have talked to seem to think is the case.

[mossy python]

Agree. Lyuma is great to test and see if my animator layers are working properly, but dynamic stuff and actually getting a feel for how the avatar handles in game really can’t be emulated perfectly without using the avatar in VR.

[dim cloak]

I just don't want misinformation to be spread is all.

[stable mantle]

Same here.

[mossy python]

Also I’ve had some times where Lyuma actually does stuff inaccurately

[stable mantle]

This same behavior with write defaults caused me a week of pain trying to fix my avatar because its base was designed for Write Defaults and I blindly turned them all off.

Didn't get much help because "the docs say" ignoring the fact that WD have actual use and disabling it can break some avis.

[mortal plume]

the VRC face tracking templates all use WD on

turning it off would most likely mess up some things

[dim cloak]

I've more recently been opened up to the idea that WD on isn't all bad, but I have yet to see any reasons at all for me to swap back to WD on. After my first avatar I learned that WD on can more often be more of a headache than having them off since I have control over everything with them off.

I'm less gung-ho about telling people to not use WD now, but I cannot speak to how well animations and animators work with them on since I haven't used them really at all.

All I know about WD being on is that it essentially is like having a "reset" animation play every time you swap to a new animation, meaning that you can't toggling something on in one animation, then go to a second animation to toggle another object on, without also having that first object toggle on as well in that second animation, otherwise it gets reset to its default state (likely off).

But that is essentially my bounds of knowledge about what WD on does lol.

[stable mantle]

WD on is good if you micromanage everything in separate layers.

WD off is useful when you want complex mixing of animations in a single layer.

[dim cloak]

Ah yeah I typically do stuff like this, but multi-layer as well lol.

make it easier because if I want something off, I make an animation to make sure it's turned off when I want it to be.

[stable mantle]

My avatar there's a layer for everything and every transition is unique and specific, with "null states" that are meant to undo animations. So turning WD off means suddenly everything gets stuck and the avatar slowly becomes a mess.

Like using the emulator, 2 frame animations, and the likes, it really is a matter of your style of avatar configuration and the framework you like to work with.

There's not just 1 way to do things.

[dim cloak]

For sure

[tender flower]

it didn't work how me guessed it would. it be floppy do anyone know to have it to still follow?

[stable mantle]

O-oh my

[tender flower]

can you tell what it is

with dynamic bones it still follows the main bone but the beta no

[stable mantle]

It looks like a malformed stretch Armstrong

[tender flower]

yep

[stable mantle]

So what exactly is the problem you're having?

[tender flower]

it don't track my arms or legs if the phys bone on the bone you try to move

[sweet dragon]

?? Did you Apple physbone crript on hands??

[tender flower]

?? form on arms |VRC Phys Bone (Script)|

[sweet dragon]

Bc IT IS so wird that IT not trackimg hands...

[stable mantle]

Do you need the physbone marked as animated for it to work? I was under the impression bones on humanoid bones wouldn't work right with tracking under normal conditions.

[tender flower]

yeah that fixed it if its part of the humanoid you have to click "is Animated"

[stable mantle]

Huzzah

[inland fiber]

i cant wait for this to be out of beta and implanted into the main version

it gets anoying having to swap between beta and the main version to hang out with friends

[frozen cliff]

Do you know when at all that'll happen

[stable wagon]

I hope when beta come out. I don't have to rework booping sound. I got cute tiger plushy ready to go🐯

Now thinking about, my cute tiger plushy may make people want to poke me. Lol.

[vast sorrel]

me too. two other setting of PhysBone and DynamicBone is boothersom...

[warped cipher]

When do you guys think we're going out of beta?

[tacit elbow]

I'm about to discuss about the open beta

uh

my avatar is being used by people

end

[shrewd estuary]

wicked

[quasi bramble]

Probs in about a month or 2

In my opinion I think they are working on optimization with the fact of 60 people in a world with physical bones. and yes 60 player words.

[inner meteor]

When do you guys think is oficially coming?

Oh

[simple quartz]

is shoulder tracking available for all avatars? i didnt notice it on mine

[molten cobalt]

the feature is active regardless of what Avatar use but not every Avatar has properly weighted shoulders for it to do anything

[inland fiber]

who else thinks a toggle for the bones would be good like if you dont want the bones on anymore you would just have to toggle it in settings

[knotty girder]

They might've fixed the thing where it's a pain in the ass to leave beta? That or I found a longer alternative way to do it.
A couple days ago I set mine from beta to live but didn't uninstall it or anything (which is how most people go form beta to live), but today when I got on my headset, it was being a bitch so I restarted it and I got on vrchat and now I'm on live?
So either A. If you set it back to live and wait a couple days it might go back, B. If you set it to live and restart the headset it sets it to live, ir C. Its kinda a mix of both? Maybe this is already known and I'm way outta the loop but figured I'd make it known just in case
^this on on OQ2 btw

[jade magnet]

you might be looking for #ik-2 👀

[warm cedar]

What would be first, Ik2 or AD?

[shrewd estuary]

AD

[shrewd estuary]

iirc the devs said that ik2 would still be in the oven for a bit longer after AD releases

[warm cedar]

As long as I can bonk users in live someday, I'm happy

[shrewd estuary]

after AD goes live then the ik beta will just have the new features from AD as expected on top of having the funky ik stuff

[warm cedar]

Hehe, I would imagine IK2 absolutely breaking post AD

But meh I don't think that'll happen

[shrewd estuary]

haha funny beta go brr

[glass cloud]

no estimated time yet

[warm cedar]

Funny dynamic hammer go BONK

[stable mantle]

It actually worked for me too today. I sideloaded a backup of the beta to test something and my Quest said there was an "update"… to a lower version (live), after it installed.

Technologically it's possible to swap without uninstall, but it's up the to the Quest to actually register you're on the live branch, which it tends to have trouble with.

[stable mantle]

But how?

Like I'm curious what contact tags everyone is using.

[warm cedar]

Head.

sends Damage and Hammer. recieves Head

Shield does the same, send Shield and Damage, receives all body colliders + damage

[gilded tundra]

Did they close the beta?

[limber quartz]

No, still ongoing.

[gilded tundra]

It’s not working for me🥲

[fiery musk]

Still probably gonna disable it in club worlds

[zinc marsh]

Will osc for the touch parameters be a thing? Or will you always need to send it to your avatar parameter list

[zinc marsh]

I hope thay are testing for 80 as that is current max room size

[quasi bramble]

Oh

[small surge]

*** PhysBoneManager::UpdateCollidersForChain - Max collider records** << is this the limiter thats doing it, cause i have a .txt file thats 1.347 gb of it , dont think ive enabled any of the 'special' arguments for logging

[glass cloud]

’recieves head’

[shrewd estuary]

wording

[quasi bramble]

What

[glass cloud]

lmao

[finite trellis]

I can't get back into the open beta, is sumn happening or?

[stable mantle]

What's the purpose of receiving? SFX?

[stable mantle]

Steam or Quest Stand-alone?

[warm cedar]

yip

[stable mantle]

I see

Damage makes sense as a universal parameter I suppose.

[stable mantle]

Steam or Quest-Standalone?

[finite trellis]

Quest

I haven't checked on pc yet though

[stable mantle]

Is the open beta branch listed in the Oculus App or on the website when you log in still?

[finite trellis]

Huh?

[stable mantle]

The first step(s) to installing the beta on Quest as per #open-beta-info is to change the build channel from the website while logged in or your Quest linked Oculus mobile app.

E.G. that screenshot is from my iPhone, from the Oculus app linked to my headset, on the VRChat store page, after clicking on the version number, and selecting the build channel picker.

[timid fossil]

Where can I find info for the beta for quest?

[celest cloak]

Hey did anyone else get kicked out of beta?

I can’t get back in

[small surge]

im not in it, but i can log in quickly , nope still up

[stable mantle]

#open-beta-info

[stable mantle]

Literally the first post in #open-beta-info: #open-beta-info message

[mental marsh]

Light mode 💀

[stable mantle]

???

[timid fossil]

i'm fucking dumb

[celest cloak]

Is open beta still out for quest?

[stable mantle]

Yes

[celest cloak]

Because it kicked me out back in to live and I can’t get back in

[stable mantle]

You're the 3rd person Ive heard say that today.

The Beta still shows up in the update-channel selection, if I go through the Oculus app.

The Quest shouldn't overwrite with LIVE unless you switched the channel back.

Or unless the Quest somehow switched itself back.

[celest cloak]

it switched back it self and it won’t go back in there any thing i can do to get back in beta?

[mental marsh]

Light mode sucks ass

[stable mantle]

Ok why are you telling me this?

[mental marsh]

Just saying it is

[stable mantle]

o-kaaay

[gilded tundra]

I’m on just quest and I’ve done it like a bunch of times before but when I tried doing it now it just keeps me in the live version

[stable mantle]

It doesn't take immediately. Click the "..." next to VRChat's name, choose the option to see details, and on the store page, go to More Info and check the version.

If it matches the website/app's open-beta info, you're good, and something is wrong.

If not, then the Quest hasn't "synced" yet.

IDK why the Quest takes forever to sync, but I assume it's because Facebook bought Oculus and rebranded as Meta, so there's probably a lot of server hopping going on.

[finite trellis]

oh, right, yes it is

[warm cedar]

Huge Idea struck my mind without a appearing, OSC controlled dynamic colliders, say "Stop touching me" enough and voiceattack will just go "Fuck this" Sets "allowBooping" bool to false

[stable mantle]

Twitch Plays VRChat: Physbone on the root skeleton, and anything twitch doesn't actively control over OSC just ragdolls.

[warm cedar]

This sounds disasterous.

I like it

I WILL MAKE IT! And force my good friend rem to stream it

[stable mantle]

Lmao

[muted brook]

we got inside colliders

[ionic bison]

[muted brook]

hallelujah

[shrewd estuary]

wow update

[molten cobalt]

cool

[near grove]

woo inside colliders (imagine i am excited)

[timber jewel]

[muted brook]

I can finally actually port my avi over

[raven laurel]

finally stats fixed

[kindred heath]

[warm cedar]

Well blackrat, there went your "friday" prediction

[timber jewel]

qwq

[warm cedar]

mehehehe, at least we got an update, that's what counts

[timber jewel]

I just turned of my VR because I wanted to go to bed earlier today....

I guess I'm not going to bed earlier today

[warm cedar]

I just opened my unity, ultimate timing for me

[karmic wagon]

is there a ETA on the update going to Live?

[timber jewel]

I'm mad at my bot for not telling me about the internal beta...

[timber jewel]

there is no ETA

[warm cedar]

Don't be mad at your bot, we robots do all we can to make y'all happy

[lyric bough]

Why XD

[warm cedar]

Because "No FUn AllOWeD", nah would most likely destroy quest 1 users

[timber jewel]

also QUest 2

Quest 2*

[warm cedar]

a bit less, but yes. mostly destroy them too

safety settings ^

[signal carbon]

Would be nice if this was addressed before physbones release.. otherwise new system would not work with a lot of cool avatars.

https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/1181-auto-generated-collider-customisation-for-constrained-rigs

[timber jewel]

How do I add inside colliders?

[warm cedar]

You do not :troll:

[sour epoch]

add a regular collider and then check inside bounds

[lyric bough]

Yeah. But at least I had one patch when I could set Very Poor and not being annoyed with click to every person and Show Avatar 😅

But performance is better way yeah

[timber jewel]

Intersting I had to restart Unity for that option to show up after importing the new SDK

yay, max angle actually works now :3

[lyric bough]

With Very Poor on worlds with a lot of people I had 16-25 FPS with Poor 20-35FPS so not big difference tor me to be honest

[timber jewel]

I can finally update my Quest version

and this was why it didn't work before btw xD

[warm cedar]

Ouch

compression go brrr

[hard pond]

often yeah

[timber jewel]

Quest people can now see me yay xD

(at least if they show me manually)

[warm cedar]

Quest players can see you*

*For 5 seconds until they hide your avatar because their e-girl is more important than cool avatars

they lag. they STILL lag.

[stable mantle]

In optimized worlds I tend to get 30+ FPS with avis on a Q2. Even in worlds with lots of people, if I stay away from the large groups I can hang around 25 FPS or even better. (I noticed Quest does that thing Mario Odyssey does in New Donk, where movement from a distance is animated at a lower FPS than movement nearby).

[timber jewel]

uhhh my vrc doesn't work

[stable mantle]

If you're not using Crunch compression then are you even trying?

[lyric bough]

Yeah true

[warm cedar]

It alll depends on the avis you show

avoid showing e-girls, even pc users with low specs need to avoid this

I've seen my good friends crash before because an E-avatar appeared XD

[timber jewel]

uhm, does VRChat work for you guys?

[warm cedar]

Mine is working as is

[stable mantle]

Honestly this makes a good argument for increasing the Quest limits. — The ranking system sees no difference between an optimized, modular 32k tri model, and the *900k tri e-Boy Express.

[wintry notch]

does the SDK work for you all?

[timber jewel]

wtf even the normal live version doesnt want to work

[wintry notch]

Mine broke

[stable mantle]

This looks like an issue with the VC++ Runtime?

[warm cedar]

Hehe, of course c++ is to blame :troll: