#server-feedback

1 messages ยท Page 17 of 1

rich sky
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People can mute/not bother with any job channel they don't want to worry about. No need for anyone to gate it beforehand.

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Honestly it just sounds like a lot of people who've never actually worked on a well managed revshare project or just jumping on the bandwagon.

wanton jackal
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... no. you are not being honest if you treat revshares as paid work.

slender blade
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Problem is the very vast majority of them are awfully managed

rich sky
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Maybe. But those are very easy to spot after you look into it

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Again. It's the same issue with paid work someone brought up. $50 one time versus 3-month work

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2 hour $25 tutorial

modest cloud
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They're easy to spot at face value without looking in to anything though

wanton jackal
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exactly

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anyone doing revshares -> immediately disregard

rich sky
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But basically as it is now, it is unfairly screwing over the legit revshare projects.

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Again. Revshare can be in its own channel. Mute if you don't want to see it. Ezpz

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Depends on budget. Which is why even well managed projects do revshare

silver heath
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Fair or unfair, as a contractor using the job board from the other side, I want rev-shares pushed as far as far as safe and practicable from actual job offers.

wanton jackal
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it's like gambling, but instead of doing it for money you do it for time spent

rich sky
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Has nothing to do with not wanting to pay people upfront.

wanton jackal
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tbh putting it in unpaid work makes it the most honest possible

silver heath
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indeed

ruby schooner
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Please split server news from Unreal Engine news, following the server news and getting them in other servers makes no sense since most people aren't in this server

wet violet
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@chilly ivy I'm really happy for you.

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The grant is a huge nod from Epic imo

chilly ivy
chilly ivy
wet violet
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I think that's a good idea too. I have another technical one that's turned into someone's twitter and has even been piping someone else's competing game server ads into all subscribed servers

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Eventually something important to this community is going to be poorly-received by someone who wants Unreal news

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Splitting it now might be a really good decision

chilly ivy
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All interesting points.

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I've been considering it for a bit now. Sounds like it might be a logical step. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Especially as we're getting more followers.

turbid lily
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I guess you could just not publish them?

chilly ivy
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I'm guessing most of them are following for easy access to UE4 news, not server news.

wet violet
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For the external follows, almost certainly

chilly ivy
wet violet
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Same!

turbid lily
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But then these are at everyone, so we see them anyways ๐Ÿ˜„

chilly ivy
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I'll just do that for now. But if there turns out to be interest in getting our announcements outside the server as well, then we'll probably split it so there's both options.

wet violet
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I like the news, it's just a matter of what you're broadcasting, I think, for some people who are subbed to it in their other discords

chilly ivy
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I see no useful difference between "unpaid" and "hobby" projects.

wet violet
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before 2008 I actually made a good living getting paid for peoples' hobby projects

chilly ivy
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Can you give me an example of a paid hobby project? I've honestly never seen one before, and most people I talk to see "unpaid" and think of hobby or mod projects with friends.

brittle orchid
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If a revshare project is legit then they'll have means to attract work outside of manny the bot lol. Personally I'd prefer to see the job separation to be more of:

Salary, Contract, One-off, Unpaid/Future money

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I'm less concerned with the classification of if something is paid but more so the frequency and expectation of pay

rich sky
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@brittle orchid issue is. It's always nice to have lots of good places to pitch projects to.

brittle orchid
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It is always nice but its also nice to shield people who don't know better than you from terrible working conditions

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And I'd rather have the latter

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Because as someone who knows better you have options and they don't

rich sky
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Again. Revshare projects are not unpaid work.

brittle orchid
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No they're just pre-revenue

wet violet
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Artists and developers get contracted fairly often (in my personal experience) to do work for a hobby project when the project lead can't do the work and has an appreciation for the work involved

rich sky
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The issues of "shielding" doesn't preclude it to being lumped into "unpaid"

brittle orchid
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Thats why I'd prefer to call it future money

rich sky
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Again. You can take any "paid" job, waste a bunch of time (with or without contract) and not get paid in the end

brittle orchid
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I will always agree that education is the best solution

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but this is a discord channel not a career board

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imo the community is first all else is second

rich sky
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You can simply mute the ones you don't want. We have like 50+ channels already. A few more won't matter lol

near hill
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As interesting as this conversation is, shouldn't it take place in another channel?

brittle orchid
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if there is a plan to roll out systemic education about game dev work here then I will be 100% all for it

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this is literally the only channel for this

wet violet
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e.g. I've developed databases for peoples' online projects that don't generate revenue, but I got payed because the work was beyond them and no one would do it for free

chilly ivy
# wet violet Artists and developers get contracted fairly often (in my personal experience) t...

Maybe I shouldn't use the word "hobby" there then, if that's confusing for people. When I talked to developers, "unpaid" was most often associated with mod projects or other things people were building for fun in their spare time. Like you just started a side project and you want to recruit people. Maybe it will require paid work someday but not at the moment. If that makes sense. ๐Ÿ™‚

rich sky
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Aye. Just put revshare into its own channel. In #instructions every job channel should have a detailed summary

chilly ivy
static hollow
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Seems like most people agree RevShare is not paid and is not unpaid so it makes sense to make it its own channel

brittle orchid
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its own channel is definitely fine by me, I'm only fighting to be sure its not lumped in with paid work

chilly ivy
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It will not be lumped in with the paid channels, for sure.

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If anything, we'll take the suggestion for a dedicated channel to heart.

brittle orchid
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aye, then good luck everyone :D

wet violet
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I guess I haven't paid enough attention to these in the past, but is there no separation between jobs and projects ?

rich sky
chilly ivy
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There is a parameter in contract jobs that shows the length of the contract.

wet violet
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It seems like people are interested in a shift toward emphasis on job categorization rather than project categorization

brittle orchid
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all projects are jobs

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ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

chilly ivy
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Yeah I'm not trying to separate jobs and projects here. Jobs are things you do for projects.

wet violet
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I don't mean actual separation of the two, but how the channels are categorized

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"hobby" is a project categorization, for example, not a job one

chilly ivy
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Oh, yeah I see.

brittle orchid
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I'd be more fine with zero categorization if all rev share projects had a big ass disclaimer that it is statistically unlikely for someone to be paid for their work

rich sky
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Anyway. Looks like people don't mind revshare being in its own category. Which is fine. Not in "paid" and not in "unpaid"

brittle orchid
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And if someone wants to prove to not be that statistic more power to them

chilly ivy
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I might remove the "hobby project" wording from #volunteer-projects. I was just trying to provide context for the typical kind of project you might use that channel to recruit for.

wet violet
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I think that disclaimer is fair in any case

brittle orchid
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yeah, if we wanna focus on education then uh

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that disclaimer should be on every single post

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lol

chilly ivy
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Well, there's already something along those lines in #instructions.

wet violet
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Less-experienced contractors might not know the payout for that sort of work is effectively nil and it's a bitter lesson to learn

brittle orchid
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i mean, its great that it exists

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it needs to exist

chilly ivy
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You know I'm referring to the job board instructions channel and not #more-resources right?

brittle orchid
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yes but

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people will always first try to post

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figure out why they can't

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then read instructions just enough to perform the action they want

chilly ivy
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That's fine with me.

wet violet
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They're both right

chilly ivy
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So people don't have to ask us how to post on the job board.

brittle orchid
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you don't need to read #instructions to consume bad information on job postings though

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is all im saying

chilly ivy
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I'm not sure what you mean.

brittle orchid
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instructions are only relevant for those posting

wet violet
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^

true gull
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That is true

chilly ivy
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I would argue they're relevant to people browsing too.

wet violet
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There's no limitation funneling readers through it though

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Unlike posters

chilly ivy
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I don't expect people to read the entire thing. It's designed specifically to be scannable so you only read what's relevant to you.

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Many people will just skip to the command and react so they can proceed. ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

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Yes.

brittle orchid
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if taking the job education approach i'd say the best way to make sure all parties are aware is to gate read access and then remove their read role after 24 hours so if they come back to the boards they have to re-confirm, but also I understand this is incredibly aggressive and just simple channel separation is fine and leave the rest up to people to protect themselves as clear channels offers enough protection in terms of responsibility of a discord imo

wet violet
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That's true, but then there's at least the same steps/guideline acceptance required of posters and job-seekers alike

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rn it's the job-seekers that require the education and have no visceral incentive to read the information

chilly ivy
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Hm, interesting.

rich sky
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But after adding a revshare channel :)

ruby schooner
chilly ivy
wet violet
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That's semantically sound but I don't think it applies to what he's saying

wraith glade
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One thing that's slightly unclear, there's #salary-jobs and #freelance-jobs, which I would assume to mean "salaried position" vs "freelance work"

brittle orchid
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I don't like the adjective "permanent" in permanent-jobs either

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salary / contract imo is far easier to understand and also more accurate

wraith glade
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But it could also be interpreted as "permanent salaried position" vs "part-time salaried position"

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Especially when the contract jobs channel has a duration

brittle orchid
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if europe calls em permanent jobs then i admire their faith in their workforce and i should probably move

wraith glade
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Yes, but I don't think that's what the channels mean (I may be wrong)

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A contract job is when you are hired as a contractor, e.g. for 3 months to do some work for a company

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As opposed to a full-time employee who is kept between projects

brittle orchid
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contracting is literally just signing a contract and executing it

wraith glade
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But if that's what the two channels are -where to things like one-off jobs go?

chilly ivy
wraith glade
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"I want someone to make this character for m, and I'm paying X"

brittle orchid
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yeah, one-off would fit under contracting, but i figure since we're trying to be hyper specific

ruby schooner
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I would have done that if it was as easy to follow an RSS feed as following an announcements channel but at the same time I think you shouldn't be suggesting this around because ultimately even if it's for UE4 news only the name of this server will still show up and it's still advertisement for the server / solidifying it's strong position in the UE4 community

brittle orchid
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i'd like to denote the difference between a standard freelance contract and like a fiverr

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because honestly im much more willing to pay people to do things for me for like 3 days, at least if im looking online, but i wouldn't label it contract work even though thats what it is because it'd confuse people

wraith glade
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@chilly ivy Sorry, I misused "part-time" there, I meant short-term not part-time

chilly ivy
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Permanent = you work for an employer indefinitely. Contract = A short-term pre-defined contract, i.e. 3 months, where you do the job, turn it in, get paid, and the contract is over.

wraith glade
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Right, that's all fine, but it still leaves me with the question of where "I want to hire someone to make a model for me for $x" goes

chilly ivy
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Freelance work is generally all contract jobs, for example.

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lol

chilly ivy
wraith glade
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The issue might be because I'm just looking at the channels right now and they're mostly empty, the channel currently just has fixed-term contract work in it

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So there are no examples of ones that have no length, right

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(To be clear, I'm not trying to add a job, I'm just trying to help clarify the channels for the moment.)

chilly ivy
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Indeed. I'm going to wait and see at least a week or so, to see how it's used and if the conventions I've defined are good or not.

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It's still very new.

wraith glade
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Also, it looks much cleaner than the old way ๐Ÿ‘

chilly ivy
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That's still on the table.

chilly ivy
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Giving it a dedicated channel was a no-brainer.

wraith glade
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I think the split between employment positions and freelance work should also help people find what they are looking for, as those are two very different things

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Oh, no, I wasn't saying that it should be split more, I'm saying that the split it has now seems like a good idea

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I don't think it's really a regional thing, it's just that "contract work" can mean either working as a temporary full-time employee, but also working on a freelance basis on small contracts

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I've often heard of temporary workers being called contractors, though

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I work for a company (not gamedev-related) and they tag everyone who isn't a full-time employee of the company as *CTR* (e.g. contractor)

chilly ivy
wraith glade
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I think the biggest difference is that in the USA - in some states, anyway - the employment laws are very lax

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In Texas especially you can just quit or fire people with little notice and no real reason, I've heard (whereas here in Europe that's very much not allowed)

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Anyway, that's sort of interesting but I don't think it's really that relevant to the jobs channel (other than trying to figure out if the terms are easily understandable by everyone)

turbid spoke
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just some point here - permanent jobs are not a thing in our industry. Dont know if the folks claiming that dont know how it works but for usual terms even "permanent" contracts are limited to a certain date and usually can be ended without reason in the first 6 months !!! in some companies without any reason given (happened to me 5.5 months INTO a perm contract).

wraith glade
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I'm not sure who that was directed at - I'm not in the USA, I'm in Ireland

turbid spoke
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a contract is a contract, it can run for a definite or indefinite time defined through the contract

wraith glade
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Oh, yeah, that's also a thing - usually here in Europe, you are hired as a temporary employee

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And can be fired within the first six months

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but after that, you have to be made permanent

turbid spoke
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it doesnt need the perm or non perm to it, but if i was an employer i would ADD that section to my posting

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since its a benefit that i give on my end

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nothing we should force inside a structure or not?

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and perm doesnt mean forever too

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it always can be ended within a certain reasonable range

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it just gives you more range on the "risk"

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They are also VERY unusual

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at least in our industry

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since mostly everything is based on a project length

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thats true

wraith glade
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Hmm, for permanent jobs here in Ireland (and probably other places in Europe), you can't get rid of employees unless you either a) fire them (for which they must have done something wrong, and generally been given written warnings first) or b) you make them redundant, in which case you must pay redundancy payments based on years employed

turbid spoke
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yeah i dont know about that xD

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that sounds ... not like the industry i worked in the last 10 years ๐Ÿ˜„

wraith glade
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But anyway, I think I've worked out what was causing confusion for me in the #freelance-jobs channel - the description said "contract positions"

turbid spoke
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ah yeah

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YEAH

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i get you

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the wording was weird

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yeah

wraith glade
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Oh, yeah, they can do that too (but may have to pay you redundancy too, if you've been there for a few years. I'm not sure about the exact numbers.)

turbid spoke
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anyway reason why i wanted to make my stand here is because i dont believe more than 2 channels for jobs are a good idea ๐Ÿ˜„

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and nvm

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this looks great anyway ๐Ÿ˜„

wraith glade
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And exactly, "contract position" to me says "a full-time, short-term position as a contractor", and excludes just "contract jobs" (or "freelance jobs")

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Oh yeah, you can resign any time you want (with notice); it's just they can't fire you for no reason

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Putting this here in one place for pfist (not going to ping again though) :

But anyway, I think I've worked out what was causing confusion for me in the #freelance-jobs channel - the description said "contract positions"
"contract position" to me says "a full-time, short-term position as a contractor", and excludes just "contract jobs" (or "freelance jobs")

turbid spoke
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Just one question - does the hire a studio tab have ANY credibility checks on it? I mean wtf is CapitalGaming there as the FIRST posting. They are one of the bad faith actors, being known for stealing assets a while back and have zero experience shown on their website on actually developing for others other than a handshake comment from one of their prior partners that i know they had hired a while back for a trailer themselves ...

drowsy oxide
turbid spoke
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oooh

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Yeah protect yourself, good tip ๐Ÿ˜„

static hollow
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Yeah researching those guys 12 months ago saved me some hassle

turbid spoke
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lets not go there "in here" its a server feedback zone, i just wanted to know if its in any way "moderated" in those channels

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ok thats fine, i mean at least thats the same line as usual so i dont mind

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Research

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contacts ๐Ÿ˜„

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tru

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databases? ๐Ÿ˜„

wraith glade
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Because people you've previously scammed react to your posts with ๐Ÿ‡ณ ๐Ÿ‡ด ๐Ÿšซ

turbid spoke
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xD

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tru

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its a public place so at least you can comment on stuff

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well anyway i dont want to spam this channel

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let this become a place of silence for one minute xD

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triggered

static hollow
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Can I suggest that the paid jobs be required to put down a salary/rate like on other community job pages? $50 a year is technically paid, depending on the country $200 a month might be an honest, reasonable offering whereas it's well below poverty level in others.

wraith glade
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That was something I was wondering about when people were talking about minimums earlier. People in some countries can afford to work for much less money than in others, at least in theory.

wet violet
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How is a project going to acquire slave labor if they have to be transparent about compensation in their listing?

static hollow
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@wet violet Exactly haha

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Some of the facebook pages i'm on the artists are able to work for 5-10% of what i'd even need to pay rent each month

wet violet
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I know a lot of you prolly have at least as much experience as I do in the industry both "inside" and as freelance.

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And can we just demand a little better here?

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I know it's almost impossible to police, especially without assuming liability. However, a few requirements like explicit compensation would go a long way

static hollow
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I think it would save a lot of time for both people posting and applying for jobs

wet violet
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Yeah, it only hurts bad faith postings imo

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Yup

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The industry as a whole can be pretty scummy and I'd rather this not become another portal for it

wraith glade
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What if you don't know how much you should be offering?

wanton jackal
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happy to see that revshare isn't separate

wet violet
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That's a valid question

static hollow
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You should figure that out before you post

wraith glade
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The advice is always "it depends"

static hollow
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Do a range if you have to

wet violet
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I agree that you should definitely have done some research on the work you're in the market for before you post a listing, though, either here or elsewhere

static hollow
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But as mentioned before a similarly skilled developer in different countries might have wildly different rates

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You need to budget your own project and figure out how much you can pay

wet violet
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It's as much to protect yourself as anything

static hollow
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In my opinion its fine to post a wide range like $20-$50k

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It at least lets them know what to expect and you can discuss details upon application

wet violet
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There's nothing wrong with "underpaying" for work in an international community with wildly different budgets and varying costs of living in the talent pool

static hollow
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Yeah but there is a problem with essentially setting up a hidden auction house

wraith glade
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Well, also, again, it's a difference between permanent jobs and freelance work

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If you want to hire someone to work for you for 6 months, you better know how much you plan for their salary to be

wet violet
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Yeah, can't have "...and then the money ran out halfway"

wraith glade
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but if you're just going "Hey, I'm looking for someone to make two characters for me" - then the price really depends on what an interest artist thinks is fair

wet violet
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Transparency at least suggests a budget and a plan

wraith glade
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I think there are clearly defined cases for when you would or would not know

static hollow
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Yeah for sure, I think "Negotiable" is fine. But personally as someone in one of the top 5 most expensive cities it filters those out much more easily since I know what you are looking for

wraith glade
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Offering salaried position: you should know.
Offering work: you should have a range
Looking for artist for one-shot thing: a bit harder to price

wet violet
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I mean, for anyone with a high cost of living, yeah

wanton jackal
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isn't the entire point of remote work to live somewhere cheap and make mad cash @static hollow?

static hollow
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no?

wanton jackal
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I've been doing it wrong my entire life

wet violet
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Do not do that

wraith glade
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I think it's just more valuable if you live somewhere cheap

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Doesn't mean that people who live somewhere expensive shouldn't also be allowed to do it

static hollow
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Yeah it works great for everyone involved

wanton jackal
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minmax the system

static hollow
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Lots of developer friends have paid what they consider very little but what the artist considers a lot

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Everyone is happy

wet violet
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The whole point of remote work is to access talent and jobs you couldn't locally for various reasons

wanton jackal
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true that's another good point

wet violet
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Some people gain more financially than others, but it's secondary

static hollow
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I think it should be implemented even if you can say "not sure" or whatever

wanton jackal
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how you do imagine the price ranges labeled?

static hollow
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with $$$

wanton jackal
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ah yeah okay

static hollow
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usually USD if other communities are to go by

wanton jackal
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like restaurants on google

turbid spoke
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content

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oh sorry no micro admining sryy xD

static hollow
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I also think having you agree to a basic terms of use would go a long way. Like "Do you agree to act in good faith, pay/deliver what's promised, etc." but in more legalise. It would allow moderation of notoriously bad actors in the future

wanton jackal
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we're discussing the finer points of job hunting UX

wet violet
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As long as the currency itself is standardized I am comfortable doing the necessary conversions on the fly, they could do pennies/second

turbid spoke
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i think it should always be named

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the price

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yours and theirs

wanton jackal
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prices should all be in bitcoin, equal work for everyone to convert back to their currency ๐Ÿ˜…

fast oar
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Loving the new job posting system

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But I think they should still categorize them by color

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like in the legacy system

tawny crescent
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Hey guys, I think it's awesome that you got a grant. But I'm wondering what are the things you could do with that money? Which are popular suggestions around here?

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Do you guys have access to the UE4 documentation by any chance? :p

fleet surge
mental vessel
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It is the issue with words. Hire studio, or studio hire.

gritty lotus
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might be better phrased somehow, but it does say 'Hire a Studio'

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not sure how common it is for someone to realistically contract an studio out of Discord though...

mental vessel
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Well, at least you can see what they do. Maybe apply for a job there ๐Ÿ˜„ As it is the case up.

wanton jackal
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perhaps "outsource" would be a better term

mental vessel
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Yeah... so, studio outsources work.

vocal blade
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that guy spammed all the channels looking for people to work on his game for free earlier, it was under Assassins handle

tropic sage
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Anyone knows when @open radish will become online? I want to post a recruitment message

chilly ivy
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@tropic sage We have a new job board now, powered by @leaden karma. Check the #instructions. ๐Ÿ™‚

inland escarp
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Hi do we have virtual production section on this discord ?

chilly ivy
tropic sage
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@chilly ivy thanks ๐Ÿ™‚

inland escarp
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yah it will be great i am recently working on virtual production i need people in this field ๐Ÿ™‚ there are Facebook groups but its Facebook which i don`t like

chilly ivy
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Totally understand. I don't use Facebook, either.

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We're just discussing where to put it for now.

storm trail
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I am mainly a skeletal mesh artist, and I can't seem to find a good channel for questions related to such under content creation. Graphics seems to focus more on static mesh, while animation seems to focus more on the animation of a skeletal mesh. Where would the best place be to post those kinds of questions? And would a dedicated channel for that type of content be helpful?

drowsy oxide
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I would probably guess that if your question is more about modelling, then choose #graphics , if its about rigging, choose #animation . Though im not an artist so maybe im completely wrong ๐Ÿ˜›

storm trail
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There's a bunch of different components that are in-engine -- namely creating physics shapes, setting up skeletal mesh, etc. which I guess probably could fall underneath animation in the long run? also setting up cloth sim etc. My specific question right now does have to do with creation and importing assets outside of UE4 but I just noticed there seems to be a gap in the channels in general, possibly.

mental vessel
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Choose something generic like #ue4-general or go with graphics or maybe animation. Let not be so picky.

storm trail
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Ah, I did miss that channel because it was under programming, whoops

brittle orchid
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Because it is directly relevant to me, I also +1 a virtual production channel

drowsy oxide
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Its certainly coming. Waiting on @chilly ivy

chilly ivy
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Soon.โ„ข๏ธ

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Actually very soon. Just prepping for a client meeting I have later today.

chilly ivy
brittle orchid
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sweet

wanton jackal
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so I had this question previously but perhaps it is good to clarify it here: the blender <-> UE4 pipeline tool by Epic, where to discuss it?

drowsy oxide
wanton jackal
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fair enough

cerulean sail
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@chilly ivy You should give Manny a command called "!lol" and it just haves him post a random meme from a library full of a bunch of memes

dry linden
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!ask wouldnโ€™t everyone hate that?

leaden karmaBOT
#

@dry linden, :8ball: Concentrate and ask again.

dry linden
#

!ask donโ€™t you agree that suggestion is horrible

leaden karmaBOT
#

@dry linden, :8ball: Better not tell you now.

cerulean sail
#

Haha

#

!ask is that a good idea?

leaden karmaBOT
#

@cerulean sail, :8ball: Yes.

cerulean sail
#

hahahahaha

dry linden
#

flips table

cerulean sail
#

even he wants it

#

puts table back

#

laughs uncontrolably

turbid spoke
#

good call removing the emojis from the hire a studio channel ๐Ÿ˜‰

wanton jackal
#

would be great to see the bot actually perform tasks like link to documentation or take in search queries etc. @chilly ivy

#

or for instance link to pinned messages

vocal blade
#

wonders what happens if you ask the bot to say "i am not a robot"

chilly ivy
wanton jackal
#

that's my exact thinking here

#

quick API searches to bring up the page for functions, same for blueprint

#

so perhaps be able to differentiate that in parameters

#

!ue4 bp dispatchers

#

would be looking at a page for event dispatchers for blueprint in the ue4 documentation

chilly ivy
#

API/doc stuff is a much bigger problem to tackle, but Iโ€™d certainly like to make it happen in the future. Lots of obstacles there.

wanton jackal
#

fair enough

#

I was hoping it'd just be able to bring up the first result of a search on the documentation page within the given domain

#

maybe I am asking too much

#

!ue4 cpp delegates brings up the first result of delegates in the docs

chilly ivy
#

Yeah that might be more practical. Iโ€™ll have to look at how search queries work on the UE docs site.

#

We have other plans for surfacing great resources to the community as well.

#

But commands for FAQs are definitely on the list for Manny.

#

Iโ€™ve seen them work really well in other developer-centric servers.

wanton jackal
#

somehow having a written out generic troubleshooting guide as a quick reference would be great

#

especially for new people in blueprints

#

nice!

wraith glade
chilly ivy
dry linden
#

Where can we find the source for the bot to make a PR?

wanton jackal
#

I'm pretty sure the bot doesn't do PR

slender blade
#

He means he wants to put in a PR on the bot

dry linden
#

No like I need someone to help me with public relations

dry linden
slender blade
#

I was really confused there for a second

dry linden
#

๐Ÿ˜›

dry linden
#

How would you guys feel if made a PR to add a !report <MSG_ID> only for any message under the job board category? Then maybe Manny will make a message in a channel that only mods can see. Each additional report on an existing ID would just increment a number and edit the message, or maybe add an emoji prevent clutter/repeating messages.

slender blade
#

I think that's a good idea. Would be good to have it work by DM'ing Manny, so that we don't have to clutter chat with it

dry linden
#

Agreed, that would be the idea. DM Manny with !report MSGID, then Manny would message a channel that only mod role and above can see with the behavior described above, I think that would help prevent unnecessary reports by trolls

#

well, maybe !report would come off as being able to report people, maybe will set it to !reportjob

rich lintel
#

Curious , are we gonna be allowed to screenshare again down in voice ?

#

More because, it benefits some of those people who actually are in need of help?

chilly ivy
#

@dry linden That's an interesting idea! I'm guessing this would be to report job posts that are misleading or spam?

slender blade
#

Oh, I had actually missed the "only for job board" part, I think it'd be a great idea all-round

chilly ivy
#

Sure, you could just DM us, but this would make it much easier to track reports and see if multiple people report the same post or user.

slender blade
#

My reasoning is it'd be cleaner for mods to have a channel with all current reports, and it'd be nice to be able to 'report' posts without having to do so publicly

chilly ivy
#

We certainly wouldn't have a public channel to do it. That would invite witch hunts and public shaming, which we strongly discourage.

slender blade
#

Definitely, from my point of view this extends to the entire server

chilly ivy
#

Interesting, so now we're talking about a general purpose "report another user" command.

civic raven
#

Not sure if this was suggested before but I just had this idea with a simple goal. What if you had to pay to make an ad on the paid section of the job board to remove the possibility of people ripping people off with false work and that money is kept in reserve and returned once the job is completed or the person hired has verified that they did get paid for the work. Worse case maybe it could give to folks that did the work have proof and that little bit of money could go to them.

dry linden
#

Sorry for the ping btw, I keep forgetting to disable it in replies, that one was not necessary

#

Also report another user can and will get abused. What Iโ€™m talking about is for the job board category only. And more for me to have some fun getting into discord bots like Iโ€™ve always wanted to but not had much time to do so, and maybe help the server be slightly a better place along the way

slender blade
#

I doubt many users other than regulars will bother to open DMs with the bot and go out of their way to find message IDs to report

chilly ivy
slender blade
#

Oh yeah I'm referring to general report functionality, not the job-specific part

chilly ivy
#

Oh OK.

#

Yeah I wouldn't make a general purpose report command that requires a message ID. Not gonna ask people to turn on Developer Mode to report someone. That's best left to Discord to implement as a native feature.

#

Which they already have, but only server admins can report messages unfortunately. Not sure if they'll ever expand it to all users.

#

@dry linden Would you mind submitting an issue with a proposal for this? Been discussing it with the mods and it's still up in the air, but it's really interesting and I'd love to have the design proposal in a more permanent place. ๐Ÿ™‚

wraith glade
#

You don't need developer mode to get a message ID, you can use "Copy Message Link" - the last part of the URL is the message ID

drowsy oxide
#

I think the point being is that the easier it is to use, the more it will get used. Trying to find a Message ID to use the system being a pretty big barrier to the UX being easy.

wraith glade
#

I was thinking it could accept message link URLs and parse them itself, if something like that were needed

dry linden
mental vessel
#

Errm... How is !report msgid different witch hunt than a channel or any other public visible report? You can just run Discord find on that string with the same effect? Maybe it should be only a DM to the bot instead?

timid flare
#

got spammed today with a mass-DM: SErveToday at 3:18 AM we are a team of developers and working on a battle royal game and we need to hire more ue4 developers to work with us we have full GDD and trello setuped if you need then please msg me i will send that to you if you are interested then please reply we work on revenue share/royalty we will have a ingame currency called UR and a level system called royal permit and we need some active developers who can contribute to our project you will get proper credit in our game and website (urduty.com) website is in progress. I am waiting for your reply

deft raft
#

@timid flare Thanks! I gave them a strike. Please keep reporting unsolicited DMs!
That goes for everyone (:

turbid lily
gritty lotus
#

that would be piracy, yes

#

unless they are being shared solely for the purposes of the project

dim sandal
trail falcon
#

โ˜๏ธ I got the same thing from three different accounts over the weeks, unfortunately deleted them all before realizing I should report it

deft raft
#

The person is banned by now due to too many strikes. Please keep reporting such behavior! (:

remote linden
#

โ€ข Only UE4 streams, no generic game dev or game art streams or other stream of any kind.
So if you are streaming would you need to turn the stream off if you needed to add a UI or tweak an animation in Blender for example. Isn't that a little harsh?

mental vessel
#

You dig it too much, if you need to switch off for the time being to Blender, you should be fine.

#

If you gonna stream Blender mostly, no.

#

I don't think somebody will go after you for a bit of variety. Also Blender is part of the work with UE for some.

remote linden
#

Yeah if it's part of the process it shouldn't break the rules, there should be some exceptions.

lofty spear
#

THANK YOU for splitting the jobs boards.

hardy elm
#

the new job sections are great, however, I see a lot of "permanent" jobs that are simply indie scraping for people. Permanent should not mean "an endless job regardless of ever getting paid" -- How are these ads being vetted?

chilly ivy
hardy elm
#

I dont think its beyond reason to make the people offering jobs to have a link back to their website or place that we can also see THEIR information and production experience. Again, I have clicked a dozen links and gotten 3 "places" that are no where close to professional setups.

#

I'd rather post you an example outside of the public space

chilly ivy
#

OK. Feel free to DM me at your convenience.

#

Re: links, that might be a worthwhile addition to require a website for jobs the same way we do for portfolios.

heavy fox
gritty lotus
#

They've been warned several times and kicked but just seem to keep coming back. Might be time to ask Discord to issue an actual ban.

heavy fox
#

๐Ÿ™

#

they deleted the message to try to pretend nothin happened genius

mental vessel
#

Damn, spamming about streamers is on high rise.

deft raft
#

I removed the user. Please report them again and again. They will get tired eventually.

slender blade
#

They just keep making new accounts?

gritty lotus
#

yup

deft raft
#

Thanks!

#

User has been removed due to too many strikes. Please keep your eyes open in case they ban evade!

slender blade
#

I'm astounded y'all keep getting these, I've probably only had one in my years here

#

That'd explain why I never get any

royal flare
#

also the section for requirement did not show up

#

Bot hates me XD

#

rip

# 
Rigging, Modelling in whatever software you favourite with no student licence. *FBX* export capable and Metric unit scale.
Need to be present every team meeting once a week on monday 18 o clock GT1+
Be able to work on your own. We do not give you boundries. As loong it looks good and fits the art-style, go nuts.```
@red imp ๐Ÿ˜ฆ
#

3 more rows ...

azure valve
#

I must congratulate you on the new job board. I honestly though it was going to take a few more years if ever.

dry linden
# turbid lily https://discord.com/channels/187217643009212416/780560005782568980/7819503005912...

To my understanding, that's not against EULA. As an example, if I were to accept that project, and change the default value of a bool from true, to false, AND if at least one asset from each of those packs are being used in that project, I have therefore collaborated with that user, and can legally own each and every one of those assets on my system. BUT it is against EULA to then go and use those assets on another project, with or without permission. So it'd be pointless unless you want to learn from taking them apart. This is what I gather from reading over the terms, please correct me if I'm wrong because it is definitely a bit complicated

turbid lily
#

@dry linden collaborating just gives you access to the assets as part of that project

#

Any use outside that - even just taking them apart - is not allowed

dry linden
#

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, you were saying that his post is against EULA so I was just curious

turbid lily
#

Yup :)

dry linden
#

Oh sorry, skimmed too quick, your saying that taking them apart is not allowed, and I'm saying that from what I gathered from the terms, it is allowed. That's where the confusion is

ocean siren
#

for the purpose of using it on that specific project

#

It's not as if you can only use the knowledge you get from the pack on that specific project and then forget afterwards, but recreating the assets afterwards would be an issue if you got caught.

#

and a project that only exists for the sake of enabling dissection of assets by random people is likely at fault? NAL though

mellow mason
#

@deft raft

deft raft
#

Thanks, removing.

gritty lotus
#

I don't think they're even in the group

deft raft
#

They were

#

Just no messages of course

turbid lily
#

That's a great idea!

#

@primal ocean Can I borrow your santa hat image

molten notch
#

Could u put looking for work back into the job board?

#

as it is easier to find people that way I have found

slender blade
#

Easier than what? Easier than the new, more organized channels?

#

There's new channels with the exact same purpose, handled by the new bot

turbid lily
#

As always, thanks for taking the time to write a detailed breakdown of the free assets @chilly ivy !

chilly ivy
#

Happy to do it. I like making the free content easy to browse at a glance.

#

Great idea, and I appreciate the effort but I've already got a design in mind. Planning to add a Xmas icon soon.

chilly ivy
#

It'll be fixed in a patch release this week.

rich sky
#

@chilly ivy If I didn't know any better, I'd say this one was a bot, but there should be rules about "bumping" posts...especially if literally no one posted after you

๐Ÿ“Ž unknown.png
#

Or better yet, would be nice if bot handled that itself

royal flare
chilly ivy
#

So to bump they'd have to remove and repost.

slender blade
#

I'd say just keep them from posting there again less than two weeks or a month since their last post?

#

Otherwise you're going to still have people constantly removing and re-posting their thing to make sure they're most visible

chilly ivy
#

Maybe, but it's not a constant issue yet. This is the first time it's come up on the new job board, and it didn't happen often on the old one.

rich sky
#

@chilly ivy so not true

#

It most definitely happened a lot in old board ๐Ÿ™‚

#

Every week/two weeks, actually this studio is one of the biggest culprits from old one

#

But there were plenty of others as well

#

With the job board split and with your old post being the last post, you'd think some common sense would apply here.

#

But, yeah, I don't think just "deleting old one with a new post" is a good solution as @slender blade said. It will just make the situation worse eventually as people catch on, and you'll see some silly competition going on

#

I don't know if a set time is a good solution either by itself. Instead, if there's a way to calculate how many posts are currently "in the stack" in that channel, and then make sure that the person hasn't tried it within a certain time and is within the "number of posts needed for a bump", this could be a good solution

#

So, in this case. let's say it was 2 weeks, they would just be able to post every two weeks, even if no one else posted. Or, if only one post was in front. It just seems super silly. Instead, there should be a certain number of posts needed before you can "bump", as well as a time

#

Something like 3-5 seems fine within a 2-3 week limit.

chilly ivy
#

Perhaps I'm wrong. The person doing it now is the only one I saw on the old job board. Regardless, I'm not trying to dismiss the issue. I acknowledge that it could get worse if more people catch on, and yes, that would encourage some silly competition.

rich sky
#

These boards so far are moving sort of slow, so I don't see why anyone would need to bump every week, that's kinda annoying

slender blade
#

Alternatively you can just call out the people doing it and ban them from the job-board if they keep doing it regardless

#

But that's a very manual process

rich sky
#

Nah, that's just extra work by everyone else, when it can just be a simple logic tweak and addition to job board rules :0

chilly ivy
#

Yeah. I'd rather find a solution that's reasonable to implement and has the highest chance of enhancing everyone's experience.

#

That includes doing my best not to impose restrictions on people who aren't trying to game the system.

#

For example: someone may remove/repost their portfolio to update their information. Of course, this is a good argument for editing posts, which is already on the roadmap.

hardy elm
#

Listings in the job sections.... I feel if it's a contract job or a salary position job there needs to be some rates put on these.

Yes, even if you're an indie dude who only need somebody to do some modeling for you for three weeks.

It's more time to contact them for that specific informatio when the information can easily be put on any professionally generated paying jobs

slender blade
#

Yep, made the same suggestion when it went live. Any proper professional listing will have a budget range, so they may as well put that range (min-max) on there as an indication, so you an easily see if it's something that matches

#

Would save everyone a lot of time

brittle orchid
hardy elm
#

I am not going to keep harping on it, but, given the recent radical changes for the better, I want to make sure I am clear

#

This is NOT a permanent job ad.

slender blade
#

Yeah those two posts from Zero Interactive don't really look like permanent positions to me

#

(Not to mention they're the same position...)

#

Would it be a horrendous idea to just send the job postings to a moderated queue first, so that the mods have to check whether the post makes sense and fits the channel before letting it go through? Feel like it wouldn't take that much time, and it'd also take care of people trying to game the system because there's an actual person looking at the postings so they'll remember the people that are known to try and game it

#

Seems like it'd be less tedious than relying on the community to constantly report postings

hardy elm
#

Yeah, I just want to be clear that to me, doing this in a side industry for a long time, those are not "permanent" other than for a few hours/weeks. THAT is not permanent.

#

yes, 100% agreed. Policing it would be .... not fun

#

and I want it to work, cause, hey, I want more work ๐Ÿ˜„ so

dry linden
# slender blade Seems like it'd be less tedious than relying on the community to constantly repo...

But here's the difference, nobody would want to go through that moderated queue. you guys are already reading every post that lands on the boards. When they see the idea of needing to approve every job, someone out loud says "are you going to be the one to go through that queue? We have lives dammit!!". In addition to that, what happens when a job post needs to be taken down before it gets approved, a recruiter doesn't have time to keep checking to see if the post has been approved, just so they can take it down, when they can take the post down instantly on other platforms they may be using.

wraith glade
#

Still talking from ignorance, but I still can't help but feel that "Work in a studio in India for a year" is a completely different category of job posting than "design 6 loading screens"

drowsy oxide
#

We are discussing internally further improvements to the Job Board listing process as you guys are discussing above.

chilly ivy
dry linden
#

The only disruption I would imagine is if the user (being a 'big time' recruiter) makes a post, and needs to take it down shortly after, they could wake up the next day to a bombardment of messages depending on the position offered, due to forgetting their job post was still pending approval here. But your probably right, I would imagine that situation has virtually never happened/wouldn't be much of an issue 90% of the time.

I just figured mods wouldn't want to deal with a queue, especially when UE5 drops, but yes some of the spam posts are definitely an issue, and having a mod queue would definitely be the top solution, but also the most manual one.

Why not add a spellcheck, and not even queue the job post if the % of correctly spelled words is < 90% ๐Ÿ˜‰

#

I also vouch for Victors 3-5 posts per 2-3 weeks, if more posts are needed, the user can vet with the mods, and they can in turn tell Manny to remember their ID and lift the restriction, or add additional posts per week(s)

gritty lotus
slender blade
#

Same, honestly

rich lintel
#

only sad, that we dont have any volunteers to do the voice-section, so we could be allowed to screenshare, also I find wrong, that moderators can screenshare, but the rest of the users cant

fleet surge
#

disabling screen sharing is ridiculous tbh

#

you also can't moderate someone screaming expletives in there... why is this different?

#

I don't see why what is easily the most useful feature that was ever added to voice channels needs to be gimped like that

brazen agate
#

Chaos destruction still in beta in 4.26?

vast tusk
brazen agate
sinful python
#

voice general got removed?

#

oh it only works when you're in voice i see

#

i liked to read it ๐Ÿ˜ฆ

chilly ivy
#

Only showing while you're in voice chat is the intended design.

terse maple
#

is there something up with the unreal bot? Unable to post in LFW

vast tusk
terse maple
#

@vast tusk oh cool! Might I suggest editing the pinned message in the LFW channel to reflect that. Still tells people to message the unreal bot.

vast tusk
#

That's because you are in the legacy job board

#

You should be here. But not a bad idea

chilly ivy
#

I just added reminders to the legacy channels that they will close soon. ๐Ÿ™‚

terse maple
#

@chilly ivy thanks!

chilly ivy
#

Yep! I hope you like the new job board experience. If you have any feedback, please let us know here.

rich sky
#

@chilly ivy Another idea for bot. When executing !gameidea it can delete the msg (or just not even say it) in the channel. Nothing like seeing 20+ messages just telling people it DM'd them, serves no purpose, as those users will clearly know they were DM'd.

chilly ivy
#

Fair point, but you'd be surprised how many people don't see DMs or pings.

rich sky
#

If they didn't, they won't see those msgs either

chilly ivy
#

Those messages are right in front of them, in the same channel. I have no evidence to suggest people miss them.

#

Point still taken, though. I understand it can be disruptive when lots of people use it in rapid succession.

#

I'll experiment with deleting the command and not saying anything in the channel where the command is used, and see how it feels.

mental vessel
#

Delete the message after 3 seconds?

gritty lotus
#

as it stands, sending it to PM but leaving the other message in chat is silly - you've tried to avoid clutter by DMing the person the response, but ended up leaving a message in the chat that's even more annoying for anyone else than what the response would have been :p

open radish
#

ue5 channel.

slender blade
#

So that we may all continuously rehash how we know absolutely nothing about it? Don't see much value there, just gonna become an echo chamber of "I think/wonder/hope UE5 will do this"

chilly ivy
#

@rich sky @gritty lotus I've just pushed an update. Manny now deletes the message that triggers the Game Idea command and no longer replies in the server.

#

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

mental vessel
#

It works.

#

Message is deleted right away.

chilly ivy
#

Hey man, ents need respect.

open radish
#

@slender blade yes exactly why. now gogo

chilly ivy
#

UE5 speculation already happens in plenty of other channels. No need to dedicate one to it.

brittle orchid
#

can we have a ue6 speculation channel then

#

That doesn't happen in plenty of other channels

drifting wraith
#

i think a ue7 one would be better

deft raft
#

Why not a Unity one, so Allar can get his Mesh FBX Export questions answered.

brittle orchid
#

to be fair i have an answer its just a stupid one

dry linden
#

When are we getting #rocks ??

slender blade
#

I want #rocks

dreamy raptor
#

Third account Iโ€™ve seen pulling this crap

mental vessel
#

Is that the same channel as before? At this point its more like an anti-ad.

dim sandal
#

yeah, seen this too, from a different account

gritty lotus
#

I'm wondering if there's a way to get their YouTube channel taken down

#

that would surely stop the spam

#

looks like you can report their Youtube channel for spam

mental vessel
#

I think a simple notice might help him become aware. If not, take out the guns.

slender blade
#

Yeah, was thinking about reporting the channel as well

gritty lotus
#

if he keeps getting strikes, they'll probably do something about him

slender blade
#

Can you copy-paste that message and the YouTube link here?

#

Will happily report him as well

gritty lotus
#

I already sent it, but feel free to use it as a template

slender blade
#

Awww darnit, that'd have saved me those four lines of typing ๐Ÿ™

mental vessel
#

I can type them for you? ๐Ÿ’ฐ

gritty lotus
dry linden
# gritty lotus Yeah, I got the feckless ass as well;

Yes, this is one account, IIRC, discord tracks how many DM's you send per server, so they could look at that user and go "woah that user has sent hundreds of DMs to users in server X, and Y. Please use the discord reporting method, because after enough reports on the same account, they will take action. But we need to take action, if we want them to take action. Please report.

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000291932-How-to-Properly-Report-Issues-to-Trust-Safety

https://support.discord.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=360000029731

lilac cargo
#

There should be a channel for quixel

dry linden
fluid crater
#

What is that

lilac cargo
wraith glade
#

I notice that some has posted a job posting in #hire-a-studio - I guess the channel names are still a bit unclear

vocal blade
#

i don't think name of that channel was in any way unclear

#

especially coupled with its description

chilly ivy
#

What is unclear about #hire-a-studio? It's a listing of studios who are looking for work. You go there if you want to hire a studio.

mental vessel
#

Maybe the bots need to ask posters: "Are you representing a studio?"

chilly ivy
#

It does.

mental vessel
#

Then you may interrogate that person to understand the thought process behind his/her reasoning. For research purposes ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ

stoic goblet
#

ah, that was my bad, i noticed that erroneous job posting, thought "i should fix this", asked about how to go about it in mod chat, and then just...forgot to delete it

wraith glade
#

I was thinking someone thought "well, I want to hire a studio, so I'll go and post in the #hire-a-studio channel!"...

#

And didn't read things.

deft raft
#

That's the only other way I would read this, yeah. "I want to hire a studio, so I put a request for it here."

mental vessel
#

So, that's studios which go for hiring?

wraith glade
#

#studios-which-are-looking-for-work

ocean siren
#

#this_is_where_studios_which_offer_external_outsourcing_should_post_messages_and_where_interested_parties_should_browse_the_messages_posted_by_the_outsourcing_studios

drowsy oxide
#

Seems legit

fleet surge
#

what about this

dry linden
gentle egret
#

@!Moderators, any plan on adding a sub channel dedicated for the new Water System? Did Epic documented on their web? Can't find it.

drowsy oxide
#

The new Water System does not need its own channel. You can easily discuss it in the existing channels.

chilly ivy
gentle egret
#

Ahh Ok. And I assume they will release document later.

drowsy oxide
#

Most likely, you would have to ask Epic...

gentle egret
#

Gotcha

mental vessel
#

Petition to open temporary channel about Cyberpunk, so people can talk their mouths off there.

jolly herald
mental vessel
#

Preventive measures. Can't slack as before in that channel.

jolly herald
#

Haha that is great. The lounge atmosphere is no longer relaxing, hehe.

rocky basalt
#

yo this guy is a straight scammer, i'm so glad i didn't let him touch my game. Now that i read they steal assets, they're like a dev's worst nightmare lol. This guy is straight emailing me trying to claim he has a fake lawsuit against me, he's been watchin too much trump.

drowsy oxide
#

Hes been banned for a while now.

crisp chasm
#

Hello, I have a request. Would it be possible to make a separate nativization channel? Because it's really an art in itself :p

#

I already know some important things about nativization, so I could help people, but I still have some questions as well

mental vessel
#

What do you mean by "nativization" btw?

crisp chasm
#

The feature in UE4 that turns blueprints into generated C++ code

ocean siren
#

Isn't it just clicking a setting and then having the game cook?

Setting up BP to be able to survive that process should fall under BP.
Pretty sure the consensus is that you shouldn't be editing/viewing the generated files... they're not the best place to learn C++

crisp chasm
#

No no

ocean siren
#

I'm curious what benefit the users of the feature would get

crisp chasm
#

The feature is a bit crude so it's not simply enabling it

#

You have to code your blueprints in a certain 'defensive' way for them to be eligible for nativization. Otherwise it'll just fail

crisp chasm
deft raft
#

I'm not convinced that this needs its own channel. As Lambda pointed out, if there are issues with the BPs one can just post into #blueprint .
Maybe if there is more demand for such a channel.

ocean siren
#

I know that part, I meant the channel

crisp chasm
#

It's not simply 'issues with blueprints'

#

What if users like myself want to find out info about nativization. 99% of the blueprint channel is not about nativization

deft raft
#

There are lots of topics that would need their own channel then.

crisp chasm
#

There is a massive lack of information both in and out of this Discord on the topic. That could be helped with a separate channel

#

As important as nativization? how many UE4 developers haven't fallen in the 'blueprint trap'? Nativization can be the difference between a game that runs at sub 30 fps and a smooth game

deft raft
#

We will discuss it, that's all I can say for now.

crisp chasm
#

Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

#

I'll post my question in the blueprint channel for now but I'm not expecting much ๐Ÿ˜…

crisp chasm
# deft raft We will discuss it, that's all I can say for now.

Oh also to add to this. I'm willing to make a small tutorial on how to start with nativization. To share what I've learned.

I've just found out the answer to my question myself. But that doesn't mean starting a nativization sub-community couldn't still be fruitful ๐Ÿ˜‰

gritty lotus
#

my recommendation with regard to nativisation is not to use it

#

it's unreliable at best

#

outright sabotage at worst ๐Ÿ˜„

crisp chasm
gritty lotus
#

I mean, I've seen it silently drop components from actors during packaging and that's absolutely disasterous

#

when that happens, best case scenario is that actor and things related to it act super weird, worse case scenario the game crashes immediately with an impossible to decipher callstack ๐Ÿ˜

crisp chasm
#

Well you have to test extensively after nativizing some blueprints. It's still worth the hassle if it can gain you FPS. Or you just end up as another ARK: Survival Evolved

deft raft
#

Oooor you move the performance heavy code to c++ :P

crisp chasm
#

I'm afraid that would be even more of a hassle. I did not write the code

#

That's why I think a separate Nativzation channel would be handy. I just want to talk about nativization, I don't want to debate about it

slender blade
#

I don't think it'd get anywhere near enough traffic, and I suspect most people able to comment on nativization queries will not bother to monitor an extra channel when they're already keeping track of a few programming channels

#

I know that if there were to be a #lightmass channel, for instance, I would not ever look in there, despite regularly helping with lightmass queries in #graphics

#

As for resource collection - keeping track of relevant information and such... Discord's just really not a great place for that. Discussions move too fast, search is too inconsistent. Information's gone ten minutes after it was shared.

crisp chasm
#

Well it's a chicken and egg problem. Nobody talks about nativization because almost nobody knows enough about it so nobody talks about it.

At least if a channel was added they'd see my tips (which can be pinned)

slender blade
#

I don't think it's a chicken/egg problem, because that'd imply adding the channel would solve the problem. I don't think it will. Nativization has way too many issues to be popular, and I don't think there's really anyone that knows the ins and outs of it either way, because it's so massively (code) context-dependent

crisp chasm
#

Every little bit helps. It works well enough on simpler blueprints and hundreds of simpler blueprints nativized can help unload the stress on the Blueprint VM

#

It can work but it there's just no documentation on it. That's why I had to spend a week finding out these little rules by myself. Would be handy if we could help each other out and saving time

slender blade
#

I feel like a better bet for a static resource like that would be to simply make a blog-post or something which people can easily find when googling about nativization

crisp chasm
#

I'm not going to make a blog simply for this. Neither will a blog post gather the same kind of traffic or generate the same amount of discussion as this Discord

#

Why so much pushback?

slender blade
#

Because there's already a very large amount of channels, and splitting them apart into smaller and smaller specialized subsections will lead the server to just having boatloads of channels which all only have two or three people in them because no-one can be bothered to keep track of every single channel

#

It's not a matter of this specifically being bad, it's the premise of splitting broad channels into specialized ones when there's no real need for it from the community

crisp chasm
#

Yes I get your point, truly I do. But other topics which are less important than Nativization already have gotten their own channel. What is 1 more channel? Especially considering for a topic as important as nativization

slender blade
#

Examples of topics less important that have their own channels? Only one I think there is, is #epic-online-services

#

Nativization is an important topic to you because you're working with it, but as no-one ever talks about it in this server, clearly it's not that important to the community at large

crisp chasm
crisp chasm
slender blade
#

No, you're definitely inverting the problem. It's not mostly ignored because people don't discuss it, people definitely have extensively looked into it over the years, and have then decided to not continue that because the system sucks

#

The Game Jam category is literally only there at the moment because the MegaJam just happened

#

And work-in-progress and released are there to keep people from spamming their stuff everywhere else

crisp chasm
slender blade
#

Because that constantly happened before then

crisp chasm
#

Whatever the case, it's not up to us. Let's let the mods discuss it

#

You have your opinion, I have mine

wraith glade
#

A proper tutorial / blog post would be much more useful than a channel anyway, if the problem is that no one knows the ins and outs of the topic

#

Standard operating procedure for someone trying to learn about a feature should be -> online search, read tutorials; if that fails, ask here

#

Discord shouldn't be the first point of call for things you can find out about yourself

#

Alternatively, you could make some YouTube tutorials about it, those are popular

crisp chasm
crisp chasm
crisp chasm
wraith glade
#

This is certainly true. Videos are handy for certain things, but are overused for topics where a simple page would be better

fleet surge
#

just go to #cpp to talk about things like this

#

people who have a clue about it are most likely to be found there

#

but I imagine there aren't many to begin with due to how scuffed/niche the feature is

crisp chasm
#

Thanks I'll try that

chilly ivy
crisp chasm
# chilly ivy I agree with this sentiment. This topic is far too narrow and niche to warrant a...

That is very sad to hear. I have posted both my question in #blueprint and #cpp and it has gotten buried within hours. It just falls right between those channels but doesn't fit in either of them.

I can't create this tutorial or series of articles since I don't have all the answers. I was hoping for a place so that different people can come together and piece together the different parts of the puzzle.

That's what a Discord channel can do when there are no proper tutorials out there. Nativization questions will always get buried in any other channel on this Discord.

wraith glade
#

What I would suggest you do, is see if you can find any people who know about it - either by asking directly in the channels, or by searching in their histories

#

And then trying to talk to those people

#

(if they're open for it)

#

You can always create a group DM to discuss the topic in some more detail, iron out the knowledge, and then write the tutorial

#

(Again, if the people with the requisite knowledge are okay with doing that)

crisp chasm
crisp chasm
#

I just don't get why this is such a huge deal. It's not like I'm asking to add the channel cat-pictures or something.

I don't care if the channel would be all the way at the bottom. At least people would be able to redirect others to the channel.

rich sky
#

Personally, I don't see any reasons for all the pushback on adding new channels. People can choose to not view them by muting. There are plenty of "features" that have their own channels.

#

A shame that the Rev-Share job channel still hasn't happened as well ๐Ÿ˜ญ

slender blade
#

People can choose to not view them by muting.
My main concern with extra channels is not at all in this, it is in diluting userbase between channels, as I described before:
I know that if there were to be a #lightmass channel, for instance, I would not ever look in there, despite regularly helping with lightmass queries in #graphics

#

I'm really not that fussed about the amount of channels, muting is indeed fine. But if you split #graphics into five parts, I will probably only keep track of two of those channels, even though I'd answer queries related to the other three if they'd come up in #graphics

#

In my experience, this seems to go for most skilled people that provide consistent and meaningful assistance on this server

crisp chasm
slender blade
#

Only way I can see the argument not applying to nativization is if it simply receives no traffic, in which case... Why bother having the channel if it doesn't receive traffic anyway?

crisp chasm
#

Nobody can say for sure how much traffic it will generate. I promise I'll share what I learned and will learn though. That in itself will make the channel worth it

slender blade
#

I still strongly believe that sharing information that isn't just directly answering someone's questions is far more suited to something that is not as fleeting as Discord, like a blog or forum, so that Google will pick it up in relevant searches

crisp chasm
#

As I said before. My "prime directive" is not sharing information or creating a tutorial.
Somewhere on this Discord there developers who have the answers I seek. But I have no means of reaching them and they have almost zero chance of seeing my questions.

#

But I will share what I have learned if it helps get the channel started.

rare wing
#

hey i dont know if this has been asked before but would it be possible to allow video streaming into the vc channels on this discord?

fallen fjord
#

ye ^^^

orchid cosmos
#

New icon looks cool! ๐Ÿ™

cerulean sail
#

Yes it does I really like it

dry linden
#

[Emoji Request] :MannyClause:

slender blade
#

What's the intent behind #level-design? We're running into a lot of "This isn't level design, but #graphics" there, but that's not actually that weird considering the channel topic says it's for things that... Aren't really level design...

gritty lotus
#

I guess the real issue is that #graphics is such a ridiculously catch-all channel

#

#niagara gets it's own channel separate to #visual-fx for some reason, but level art, environment art, character art, materials & shaders etc, all get lumped into that one fat channel

#

meanwhile #design-chat literally includes level design in the description and seems to be a dumpster for art questions

slender blade
#

Can't comment on the VFX side, but I don't have any issues with #graphics being such a lumped channel because all those topics tend to be massively intertwined, and most people that dwell in graphics can comment on many of those topics

#

I feel like the best option's probably to just get rid of #level-design

#

It really doesn't serve any meaningful purpose, and almost every question asked in it is really more of a #graphics one

#

Graphics is not so busy it can't entertain the questions that currently go into LD

mental vessel
#

Yeah, and I think #design-chat -> #game-design , true there will be still many off-topic questions, but I think at least they will be a bit less, and talks about mesh design won't pop?

slender blade
#

Probably yeah

#

I also feel like it should probably be below the content-creation channels

#

So that it isn't the first "art" channel people see

#

If they see a different, more suitable channel, like #graphics, first they'll be a lot less likely to spam #design-chat

deft raft
#

@gritty lotus #niagara exists based on Epic's request iirc.

wraith glade
#

Wasn't #design-chat named #game-design before, and it got renamed because everyone just asked the wrong questions in it?

mental vessel
#

... they still asks. Whether its more or less, it is unknown. However, I think then it is more important to carry up on the idea what it should be than to fix it with new names - so game-design for anything game design related (incl. level-design).

gritty lotus
#

game-mechanics has been a touted possible alternative

#

the cusp of the issue is that a lot of people apparently have no idea what game design even is

loud gulch
#

I'd say most people don't even read the channel descriptions

wanton jackal
#

a long time ago I brought up the idea that the design channels should sit at the end of the list of channels as well, so people notice them last

#

that alone I reckon would filter a lot of non design questions to other channels

dim sandal
slender blade
#

That's because those things are - as far as I'm aware - generally considered to be out-of-scope for this server

#

Because while there'll definitely be some overlap between communities, if you're having an issue with your DCC, the best place to ask is that DCC's community, not the UE4 community

dim sandal
#

I think a common question is which software to choose for making X or Y for UE

#

Is career or industry chat more suited for this ue4 community than talk about making art for someones UE game?

ocean siren
#

+1 for verbose, almost conversational, channel names alex

molten notch
#

For the job board could there be a limit on how many times a person can post in the week?

drowsy oxide
#

If users are found to be reposting/boosting/spamming/bumping Job Listings that are not corrections or are still clearly visible within the channel (havent been burried within reason), they will receive a Strike.

#

If your aware of someone who is doing this, please contact a Moderator and let them know.

hardy elm
#

For the job board could there be a limit on how many times a person can post in the week? along those lines. Contract jobs. I am getting a lot of push back when asking about the actual contract to "SIGN". Seems people think the verb contract is easily usable in place of the noun contract.

Is contract jobs about having an actual, legal contract? Otherwise, saying "contract jobs" just means someone has a job they want to outsource, which sounds more like "hire-a-freelancer".

I would love someone to set me straight on what "permanent" and "contract" are supposed to mean.

Permanent jobs, had many, dont nessicarily come with a "contract", but they could, which would include the same thing in....

Contract jobs: have an actual legal paper with expectations and timetables/milestones/delivery times, with signed executors on em.

#

and yes, I am fully aware of verbal contracts, but that should not be a thing endorsed when looking for paying work under legal obligation of payment ๐Ÿ˜„

chilly ivy
#

The nature of the contract people are (or are not) signing is out of our control. Generally speaking, the meaning of the term in "contract jobs" is understood.

hardy elm
#

so then basically everyone I have pinged in there offering a "contract" is full of shite ๐Ÿ˜„

#

I can tell you that I have work for months, and with zero "contract" nothing binds me to pay you squat. I understand that isnt your area of coverage, however, asking they have legal contracts ready up front is something that could pass a filter to get a posting on the site.

chilly ivy
#

Right. We do not facilitate any part of the working relationship; only the ability to browse and post opportunities. Once you leave the job board, it's out of our hands.

#

We point this out - and advise people about exactly what you're describing - in the #instructions.

hardy elm
#

so then another question: How would you like us to handle having "bad faith" actors here? I dont want to start calling people out directly, though I 100% have zero problem doing that.

#

cause for me, sure, I am a big boy. How about the 1000s of students ?

chilly ivy
#

We're discussing how to deal with reporting bad actors.

drowsy oxide
#

If you would like to submit a report for a person you think isnt conducting themselves appropriately you are free to DM a Moderator.

#

However i will remind you that we are not responsible for your own safety when dealing with other members of the community (the internet is dangerous) in a financial capacity. We encourage everyone to protect themselves and seek legal advice when entering into an arrangement with another user.

#

As Pfist said, as soon as you leave the Server, its out of our hands.

chilly ivy
#

Right. Please don't report users because of a contract (or lack thereof). We're not lawyers.

hardy elm
#

Im not. I am reporting a mis-categorization of listings.

#

if they represent themselves as having a "contract" that is ....

#

Hence why I asked for exactly what you (this server) means by using the word "contract" in the "contract-jobs" part of "contract-jobs"

#

you can, here, certainly straighten out what the "expectation" should be, for us, the ones going into these "contracts".

#

at least in so far as the posting ๐Ÿ˜„

chilly ivy
#

The channel name follows a well-understood term in every creative industry. Contract jobs are temporary jobs outsourced to third parties.

hardy elm
#

incorrect

#

been doing this 25 years

#

contract is a fat implication you have a legal paper for me to sign with terms

#

perhaps clarifying the language. contract, again, to a lot of the world, implies obligatory paper contract. If the listings are just "paid-for-hire" that is what it should say or reflect.

#

paid for hire is what they are. at least with every single one I asked so far. ZERO contract

#

you may "enter a contract" at negotiation, but none of them even offered

#

there is even contract-to-hire, again, nothing was offered there.

#

I guess I would need to also understand what you mean "temporary" because

#

I dont consider a year to be "temp"

chilly ivy
#

Great. I've been doing it for 15 years. I don't understand what your point is. Are you expecting us to police for posting in #freelance-jobs and not making you sign a contract before work begins?

#

Lots of temp jobs are 6-12 months.

#

They're still temporary.

hardy elm
#

Just asking for better language and clearing it up so the expectation is clear

gritty lotus
#

contractors don't necessarily have to have written contracts; 'oral' contracts are also viable in a lot of jurisdictions

chilly ivy
#

I feel like you're arguing semantics at this point, though.

hardy elm
#

didnt realize asking for better language, here, on this server, was a burden.

gritty lotus
#

in some industries it is also common to begin work before a contract is written up, particularly construction

hardy elm
#

if I am arguing semantics, there is an obvious semantics problem? lel

gritty lotus
#

this is usually because the scope of the work is yet to be determined

#

I'm not saying I'd recommend working without a written contract, but it does happen

chilly ivy
hardy elm
#

contract.

#

short-term job, work-for-hire is what we use here in LA and across the vfx industry for those same 15 of your years

#

I had a "contract" job at Nick for 6 years. That was not work-for-hire or pay-for-play

#

we should want to make it anally clear to those using the server here, because of those 15+ years of experience.

#

just because WE understand it, doesnt mean its "good" or "correct" or makes sense to everyone else

#

and having nothing but... contract? sign? from people in a channel labeled "contract jobs" was even lel for me.

#

and I am not saying lets all be lawyers and help every noob ever, but.

#

lets just say if I find it a little wack on contacting some of these people, I cant imagine people with less experience at the job or business side having much fun. Again, I realize that is very shelter the user thinking, but it feels off still. And no, I dont have a better solution short of language and trying to make it more clear what each thing is -- but again, that is up to the people.

#

hence my other thing about calling some of these out. Obviously you dont want to become the BBB of UE job listings

chilly ivy
#

If I understand correctly: you're looking for work in #freelance-jobs and discovering that some people posting jobs don't actually care about having you sign a contract. Did I miss anything?

hardy elm
#

they are pay for play jobs

chilly ivy
#

I don't know what that means.

wraith glade
#

Not actually involved in either side of the jobs boards, but I did look at them when they were first introduced, and had the same comment: that the wording on the board names is a little unclear, especially if you're not very experienced at that sort of thing

#

Because, as you've said, "contract" can mean multiple things, depending on context

#

But ... not sure what a better term would be

#

I suppose maybe "#freelance-jobs"

#

But then it's ambiguous if that should include "come and work for the company for 6 months as a contractor" job or not

#

Language is hard, when you need to come up with a short but unambiguous term

mental vessel
#

hire-freelancer(-shortterm)
Kinda sounds with or without contracts and is generic enough. I would also expect #contract-jobs to involve an written contract, judging by the name only however not sure is it about to hire or offer services, maybe both?

deft raft
#

Hm. I didn't expect that so many people work without contracts. I even signed contracts over 10 hour jobs.
No wonder that we mods every now and then get contacted about peeps not being paid.
However still feels like that's something that should sort of handle itself, or?

mental vessel
#

It's subjective ๐Ÿคทโ€โ™‚๏ธ So far I have hired several people and only with one I have made an explicit contract by his wish. Ofc, there were several hours jobs.

deft raft
#

I guess it is.

slender blade
#

I don't always use contracts just by virtue of them being utterly useless because glhf going after someone on the other side of the world that's refusing to pay

#

And uh... Has anyone from server management considered the #level-design thing?

warm geyser
slender blade
#

Yep, p'much. If I have doubts about the people I'm talking to I either just don't work with them, or make them pay a significant chunk up front

wanton jackal
#

please limit the use of ATeveryone and ATall for us regular peons

drowsy oxide
#

We rarely use @ everyone....

#

Unless its an important announcement in #unreal-news we dont use it.

slender blade
wanton jackal
vast tusk
#

@wanton jackal They can't use them. It just appears that way visually. It doesn't actually notify anyone unless a mod uses it.

wanton jackal
mental vessel
#

Can't.

vast tusk
#

It's all locked down to only mods

wanton jackal
#

I don't suppose it could be something channel specific or something?

#

was weirded out when it happened for sure

vast tusk
#

I checked #blueprint and there isn't any permission overriding going on

wanton jackal
#

fair enough

#

appreciate the thoroughness

vast tusk
#

no problem

feral cedar
#

To who it may concern,

I hope you're doing well.

I just wanted to know why did the "looking for work" changed in the current way?

As now it is impossible to have a direct view of the type of contract the freelancers are looking for and target them.

Our team is currently looking for benevolent developers which seeks to find a place where they can practice and learn.

I just find this new way not really good in that aspect... :/

๐Ÿ“Ž Screenshot_20200122-034030_Discord.jpg
#

This is was easier...

gritty lotus
drowsy oxide
#

I think hes specifically requesting that people who are posting in #hire-a-freelancer should be required to list their compensation method such that its easier to search by people who are looking to Hire someone.

gritty lotus
#

ah right - well I don't think that people who are not paying should be advertising in #hire-a-freelancer

#

if there's no money involved, you are categorically not hiring a freelancer at all

#

but also the channel says it's for people looking for work

drowsy oxide
#

If thats the case, then we have no channel for someone who wants to list themselves for unpaid work...

gritty lotus
#

that's something you may want to consider, then

#

there's been a few posts of similar ilk in the game jam channels of late

drowsy oxide
#

I dont see a reason to have another channel for the sake of semantics, introducing either a color coding or compensation question to the listing for #hire-a-freelancer would be sufficient IMO.

#

#hire-a-studio I dont think needs it, given that you can make the assumption all Studios will require payment in some form.

gritty lotus
#

there's a catastrophically huge difference between "I would like to be hired as a professional to do a job" versus "I would like to work on a project to build my experience"

#

how you determine the difference between the two is up to you, but it does need to be there

drowsy oxide
#

Agreed

ocean siren
#

#find-an-apprentice ?

jolly herald
# ocean siren #find-an-apprentice ?

Yeah, this is definitely needed. #find-a-mentor or #apprenticeships to cover the other end of it too, when an apprentice is looking for a mentor. This goes beyond the #volunteer-projects channel since that channel usually is requesting help for a specific job, while apprenticeships are wide open on type of work and more focused on building a relationship with someone else in the industry.

slender blade
#

#find-a-mentor would be iffy because I suspect there's far greater demand than there is supply - I'm assuming this would be "hey experienced person take me under your wing and teach me because you enjoy it"

gritty lotus
#

I assume so - I'd imagine the uptake would be near zero (or at least near zero from people with sufficient experience to actually provide valuable mentorship)

mental vessel
#

I would like a #cooking channel. Developers require tasty food so they can work. We can exchange from healthy recipes to sugar bomb dreams.

mental vessel
#

I think this would be really helpful then.

dry linden
#

We still need #rocks

#

Merry Christmas everyone ๐ŸŽ„ ๐ŸŽ

drowsy oxide
#

Just make an Unpaid Job Listing?

wanton jackal
slender blade
#

Course not, so thanks for the reminder

slender blade
lofty garnet
#

Hello there, how can I contact the moderators privately to report something? Do you have something similar to ModMail?

drowsy oxide
#

Discord has DMs....

#

DM one of us.

wanton jackal
brittle orchid
#

I support this

nocturne jay
#

A bit late but in my experience at least for modding Skyrim most potential students lose interest very fast and this really bums some teachers out

idle cipher
#

With Control Rig now in beta, I think itโ€™s a good idea to add a new channel to discuss it in.

wanton jackal
deft raft
#

Yeah for now the animation channel should be enough

slender blade
glossy gulch
#

Christmas days, end of the year, etc. please be patient.

#

i do remember there was some discussion about it, but around this time of year things are a little slow.

slender blade
#

I do get that, but many other things have been addressed and this was initially brought up back on the 18th of December, everything since has just been 'bumps' because it keeps getting drowned out

#

So just a bit frustrated with the fact that there was zero acknowledgement despite that ๐Ÿ˜›

glossy gulch
#

i wish i could say much more about it, and me personally tend to be a bit more in the background for such discussions so I dont know the finer details.
maybe we should get a public jira thingy-whats-it-called to people can see how and what.
but thats up to pfist to consider :)

drowsy oxide
#

Its not being discussed internally at the moment. As Luos pointed out it is the holiday season and we are preoccupied at the moment.

#

I would ask you to list out the issues you have with the naming of that channel and/or its purpose but id assume you would point me back to an earlier discussion that has already done so.

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Either/or would be great so that we can get back to it.

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Unfortunately none of us have the time at the moment to discuss it at length though.

chilly ivy
slender blade
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All good, happy to have some affirmation that it's noted. I'll bring it up sometime in the new year and link to the relevant conversation then

finite ravine
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I'm getting more and more spam DMs from multiple accounts by the same person promoting a UE4 channel & game - three different DMs in a week. The last one to send me a DM is currently in this server. This is the only UE4 server I'm in so they can't have found me from anywhere else. Should they be reported somewhere? Is it happening to everyone?

slender blade
gritty lotus
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whilst you're at it, you can report their Youtube channel

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they've been a persistent nuisance for ages - I actually contacted Discord about it, but they pretended not to understand the issue which is really frustrating

slender blade
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Discord support is hot garbage when it comes to platform moderation. They don't take a stance on anything other than blatantly illegal stuff that they can get sued over

vast tusk
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@finite ravine We have been banning the accounts as we get the reports. So yes, please send these along to me.

finite ravine
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Thanks, DM'd their account names

twin bramble
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I don't know where to ask this but if I want to report a user's comment (Or I guess report that user) how on earth do I do that? I'm supposed to use <@&213101288538374145> right? But do I just use that in any channel? Do I message them privately? O_O

drowsy oxide
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Any of the above is fine.

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If its a more private matter then a DM is best.

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Pinging us within the channel (if the user is being hostile or otherwise breaking the rules within that channel for example) helps with context though.

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Do not hesitate to contact a Moderator directly for issues regarding the Server, the #old-rules or any of the Members here.

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We are here to help.

chilly ivy
twin bramble
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Thx Devils and pFist

slender blade
deft raft
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Manny is available to all of you on Github

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If you want something like this, it's probably best if you take a look at the code and perform a pullrequest.

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Only Nick can actively maintain this repo iirc, so he would need to code it.
If you PR it, then it will be faster.

frosty quail
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dang, they kinda cute tho

deft raft
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What?

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@slender blade See above

slender blade
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Am not at all a web-programmer unfortunately

turbid lily
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I think you could do it ๐Ÿ˜›

slender blade
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Probably

deft raft
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It's def one of those things that would best be PRd.

turbid lily
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looks very straightforward

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!ping

slender blade
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Just a matter off adding a new file in the /commands/fun section looks like

deft raft
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I would however make it in a way that it scales

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So that we don't need a new command per link

turbid lily
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What's the prefix for manny?

deft raft
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Should be !

turbid lily
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Oh I see

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dev is only for pfist I guess

slender blade
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I suspect so

deft raft
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!ping

leaden karmaBOT
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:ping_pong: Pong! Response Time: 67ms

deft raft
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And mods I guess

turbid lily
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๐Ÿ˜›

slender blade
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!ping

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Yeah

turbid lily
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something like !video blueprint v cpp

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or !link bp vs cpp

deft raft
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So yeah, maybe some dictionary of <key, link> so you can do !suggest bp vs cpp or so

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And then another command, for developers only, to add those links

slender blade
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Myeah I feel like that'd get messy

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The keys would need to be simple

turbid lily
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Probably easier to hardcode the links

deft raft
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  • a cooldown on this haha
turbid lily
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and submit PRs

slender blade
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Lol yeah

deft raft
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Yeah, but Nick might not like that :D

turbid lily
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!link hot reload

slender blade
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Yeah I don't think we'll want that many links tbh

deft raft
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Yeah but IF there is another one, no one wants to add another command for it

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"no one" being Nick who probably wants it to scale properly.
But yeah, make a PR, discuss it with Nick

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Yo ucan try the hardcoded link

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ANd see what he says

turbid lily
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I could see a !doc being useful too

slender blade
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Nah I can get behind the having a single command with multiple different links

deft raft
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!wiki

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Ah wait

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!unofficialwiki

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;_;

turbid lily
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!wiki would search the unofficial wiki

slender blade
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But I'd figure whenever we want a new link we can just do a PR on the link.js thing

turbid lily
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!doc the docs

slender blade
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Should only take a couple of seconds to see what the PR does

deft raft
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Yeah, just try it :D it will be better than asking here.

turbid lily
slender blade
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(Also because the doc search is pretty awful)

turbid lily
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ue4community.wiki search is great

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lol the unreal doc search is powered by bing

slender blade
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Yeah really it's just.. Need to search the docs? Open up Google and search "query ue4 docs"

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Will be far more effective than actually searching the docs

deft raft
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!lmgtfy

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Note: Command instantly strikes person who uses it.

slender blade
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heh yeah

gritty lotus
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lmgtfy is dead anyway :/

slender blade
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Myeah it kinda sucks now

turbid lily
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why?

gritty lotus
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well, try it and see

turbid lily
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wth

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yay ads

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omg

rich sky
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Anyway to give the job posts a bit of splash in color, to help sort/color code them? If let's say someone is looking for an artist, they can be blue, maybe a programmer can be red, etc. Mainly for looking in #hire-a-freelancer but could be useful in #salary-jobs and #freelance-jobs

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Same for #volunteer-projects if you're not going to separate royalty-share projects. Unpaid = red, royalty = yellow or something like that.

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It would just add another question for category

brittle orchid
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manny is using sequelize

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heres what you do

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define a new model for command responses that reply links and things

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manny/models/newmodel.js

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clone commands/mod/strike.js into commands/mod/fun/allar.js

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replace the model logic to use the new model you've made

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when the command is invoked, see if theres a model record for the passed in arg and if so return the associated link info or whatever

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and you're good to go

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Of course I've glossed over lots of details here but looking at the manny codebase thats how I would do it

deft raft
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@rich sky Again, I think the best atm is to just PR this on the GitHub page.

rich sky
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True @deft raft, If I had the time to try to learn something new just for one little PR (so bot maintainers didn't have to do it), that would be one thing. I guess I was hoping suggestions for the bot would be allowed/acceptable/appreciated, especially with the MegaGrant. But, actually, if MG $ isn't being used for the bot or improvements to the server, ignore that last part please.

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On that note though, the new job bot is nice, lots more time and definitely dig the preview.

deft raft
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No idea, that money went to Nick, not to me. I can only say that the bot is available on GitHub and the best bet is to provide PRs for stuff you wish for.

rain dagger
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If possible, I think it would be a good idea to have a form for people to fill out if they want to screen share. When I say form i mean just a simple website where you can enter your RL Name (and any other info you guys think is relevant).

I mention this because many people want to share their screen and are instead linking screen sharing alternatives in chat.

brittle orchid
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screen sharing alternatives, if there are some that are reasonable, honestly sound like a great solution

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remove all liability from this server

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maybe manny can be used to help share those things but in a way that makes a clear disclaimer that slackers has no control over content

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honestly it'd be great if discord had a nsfw video call/share option that had warnings like nsfw channels do, with the ability for people to remotely kill someone elses feed

chilly ivy
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We're still working on a screen share policy and discussing the best way to implement it.

sonic hazel
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Maybe a weird question, but why isnt it just enabled?

modern vector
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It's in the pinned messages. This is not a NSFW server so to prevent people from showing NSFW stuff in shared screen they disabled it.

sonic hazel
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ah I see, everyone is a suspect until proven otherwise

sonic hazel
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I was thinking that too, its like inventing laws while already operating under laws that does the exact same thing

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There is always some guy in a group that does the opposite of whats meant to be done, can't stop the entire group just because of that one guy

warm geyser
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I'm a mod of the main Godot discord. The way we do it is that we have voice chat mods for the different regions. US times and EU times pretty much. We have a no NSFW sharing policy (even though we have a text-based channel). If anyone violates it, they get denied access to the voice chat channels.

We've also had a pretty regular voice chat community for the past couple of years, have yet to run into an issue honestly.

dry linden
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What's so difficult about streaming via another platform like twitch, and sharing the link in voice text? Windows 10 has a new screen sharing feature where you don't even need a login, the camera on your taskbar. It's not fair to the owner of this server to "just enable video streaming" when there is such a massive liability revolving around a convince feature, where one mistake from a troll could ruin this servers relationship with epic and other big entities who are probably in the secret console dev channel.

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When you are in the voice chat, and click a voice text channel, suddenly the online members on the right side of discord are only the members with the voice role. You are able to show via discord you are streaming to twitch, and other platforms, so people can easily join

slender blade
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If the server is going to happily let that sort of thing be the way around this limitation, the entire limitation is moot and you might as well just enable the thing for everyone in the server

dry linden
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You would rather the violation happen here in this discord, and put the entire server and it's owner's relationship with epic at risk, then have it happen somewhere else, and not put the community at risk? Again it's so unbelievably easy to stream in this discord to not only those who you want to be viewing, but also to have others just lurking come to view your stream as well. The best part of that being that for the slightest inconvenience ever, the community is now not at risk!

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I believe twitch has algorithms to auto take down nudy stuff, discord does not.

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Also not trying to be hostile with you Goosey, as you are one of the opinions here I value the most โค๏ธ

slender blade
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I don't believe Discord will hold this community any less responsible if they just redirect people to another platform. That said, I really don't think Discord will ever give a damn about what people stream here, because that would involve them actually having to monitor what is being streamed, and if they were doing that we wouldn't need to have this discussion

dry linden
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My point is that it's not about discord, it's about this server being so heavily affiliated with Epic, and putting that at risk

dry linden
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Discord has algorithms for image filtering, and a team to which you can report hateful text, if ever someone were not to tag moderators. Tagging mods has a 99.9% chance for instance response here

mental vessel
chilly ivy
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The hype is that people in voice chat often want advice on how to fix something, or want to share tips, or show off their work in progress, and the natural instinct is to share their screen.

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#share-your-stream is only used for self promotion. "Hey everyone, come watch my dev stream!"

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Different use cases.

mental vessel
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Hmm... The intention maybe that, but I doubt it will be the actual usage: there will be still "Come see what I do". Also, there is always a private streaming if participants so desire?

chilly ivy
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Perhaps so. There's a lot to think about. Hence why we're not "just enabling it". ๐Ÿ™‚

mental vessel
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It got somehow on topic last few weeks.

chilly ivy
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It's a popular topic here because voice chat has increased in popularity significantly recently, and it comes up every day in voice chat that someone wants to share their screen.

mental vessel
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I see ๐Ÿ‘ Well, wish you luck ๐Ÿ˜…

loud gulch
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Nothing stopping people having their own Discord server, and streaming the stuff their though.

ocean siren
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Rule 6: โ€ข No Discord Server or other community group invites or links, unless determined by @Moderators to be relevant and useful to developers. Contact a @Moderators via DM for approval.

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Clearly the correct approach is to say in VC "I can show you if you will let me DM you a discord server" and then do that if they're okay.