manga-theories

[ebon idol]

Captain John is dead but I could see silver axe doing it. I’m just curious as to what the power would be

[modest skiff]

Yeah that’s essentially what I think. I think the antlers and stuff would have been a part of all his other forms regardless. Like if he was a human and ate his fruit, I think Monster point would still be the same thing. It’s just a confidence that a deer ate it. And I dunno about forest god in particular, but yeah, some kinda elk/yeti kinda deal is what I imagine

[devout lagoon]

It’s probably a mythical zoan at least, cuz his fruit is rather strange

[modest skiff]

Yeah, I agree. I basically think it’s a shape shifter/yeti/elk big ole mess of a thing. We see hybrid forms, but Chopper takes it to a whole different level with his poofy form and whatnot. It’s like he’s entirely malleable

[devout lagoon]

Similar to how mythical zoans have some wild ass forms 👀

[eager kelp]

What are the odds that punk records reveals the true nature of WG to the world? If not, how else would the massive war/great cleansing be set up?

[weak citrus]

chopper could be some hito hito no mi model: monster or something but i don't think the other forms comes default with his power.
Like the heavy point is a point that gives chopper's body more bulk and mass he is probably concentrating that mass on specific points using his medicinal skills giving that points more physical capabilities (like luffy taking advantage of his rubber properties to make forms like muscle balloon and bone balloon chopper just uses his medicinal knowledge)

[ashen surge]

I mean he only has some body hair around his neck area and the blue hair? He’s a beefcake for sure but otherwise I see his heavy point 100% human. Like there’s only that piece of hair.

[weak citrus]

but that is not how humans look like rigth?

[ashen surge]

trying to seriously benchmark what humans look like in One Piece

[devout lagoon]

While humans have exaggerated proportions, humans generally look like humans. The average person is just a person with nothing strange about them

[ashen surge]

And what exactly is strange about Choppers heavy point/full human form?

[weak citrus]

hairy body animal like face
blue nose

[devout lagoon]

Hair, extremely strange proportions (that neck), doesn’t pass as human

[ashen surge]

You did admit that One Piece humans have exaggerated propotions so I’m confused why that loses value specifically in Chopper’s case. Chop’s hat shadows a lot of his facial features but I fail to see how he would significantly differ from everyone else in the Nep Ece universe for this conversation to be actually meaningful

[weak citrus]

even in one piece world he was shown as monster when he was first introduced( even luffy and sanji called him a monster).
and onimaru(that pet fox of shimotsuki oshimaru) had a hito hito no mi and still looked human

[devout lagoon]

Chopper is the one character that just can’t pass as human. Even chopper himself admits that he focused on just getting a muscular build instead of looking like a human during the timeskip as he didn’t need to try to pass as human anymore. Even characters like queen, while insane looking, can still pass as human

[ashen surge]

These are the facial features we arw talking about

[weak citrus]

now tell me how does that nose pass as human?
that is definitely an animal nose

[devout lagoon]

To be fair he doesn’t even have the strangest nose in the straw hats. But I’m not talking about the facial expressions as much as I am about the body itself

[weak citrus]

it's not about having strange nose a nose that is of a different colour in the bottom is definitely an animal feature

[ashen surge]

Buggy literally has a red clown nose by birth and we have no issue with that

But maybe let's take this to #manga-serious

[dreamy hull]

Queen is a human. Not even necessarily insane looking one. He just has lot of mass

Chopper I find more akin to pinocchio myself. We not really have much info on hito hito models though sadly as we seen very few,notably Sengoku in his "zoan form?" who changed still quite a bit

Zoan fed objects had their own unique traits as well
We may get some more hints on how Chopper's DF works from Stronger imho

[devout lagoon]

Yeah that’s my point. While Queen has unnatural body proportions, he is still very clearly a human. The most “normal” HITO HITO we’ve seen is the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Onyudo. While it was eaten by a fox, his zoan form is just a dude, if a little big chunky

Yeah, I’m really hoping I cooked with the whitebeard part lmao

[tropic topaz]

based off a couple panels we can definitely semi assume that there are a couple of other devil fruits that inherit the will of gods but i dont know if chopper is it, the other three possible gods are the god of... rain, forest and earth basing off of the pannel in skypia where they send sacrifices to the gods, this occurs in chapter 312 "ohara vs the world government" i believe

it would be funny however if chopper was a god lying at the lowest bounty of all the strawhats

[tropic topaz]

i also know its not specified but i thought chopper was already a reindeer that ate a human human fruit, so what if his fruit is also just model reindeer

i always assumed that if an animal ate a human human fruit they would just gain human like characteristics

[burnt mesa]

Someone have some really good theory about this Guy with Flame marks?

[tropic topaz]

one more thing to add is in chapter zero we can see that Dr. Kureha does seem to refer to someone in the background who looks oddly like vegapunk as her son, it is possible that choppers devil fruit was a failed creation by vegapunk and that is how chopper ended up with it, it would fit into your theory well tho @modest skiff

[modest skiff]

Oh that’s interesting, gonna go see where that is in chapter 0 now

[late elm]

The talk about the kid is someone complaining about the experiment. The person in the background is dr hiriluk and he is the one talking about his experiment failing.

Kureha is talking about hiriluk messing up again

[tropic topaz]

that makes sense, i like my theory better

[late elm]

i mean none of that makes sense when the real panel is right there.

[whole needle]

but it wouldnt make sense , when the panel says otherwise

[tropic topaz]

im just saying hiriluks nose is nothin like that yk? @whole needle @late elm im just sayin its not confirmed that she doesnt have two kids

[whole needle]

he always carries a bag w him , that silhouette has it as well

[late elm]

thats not his nose its his hair sticking out on the sides

[tropic topaz]

i get it i accept your take

[late elm]

its not a take its just what it is lol

[tropic topaz]

the "another failed experiment" is what changes it for me but we will have to agree to disagree

[late elm]

thats dr hiriluk saying his experiment failed again thats what his entire lifes work was experimenting to make cherry blossoms bloon in drum

[prime drift]

what if chopper awakening is like the highest stat of normal human, like how captain america is, the perfect soldier

[celest folio]

should there be any new types of haki

[steady prism]

!theories friendly reminder to take short commentary and/or ask shorter questions to #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[low vale]

saul is still a contender but the fact that they might be hiding the last poneglyph for the govt plus their whirlpool ability just makes me think its a completely new character (albeit maybe with some connection to the ppl we already know, maybe the revolutionaries/dragon)

[ionic parrot]

will of D is will of dreams, I think that’s p much confirmed after eggheads reveal about devil fruits

[fossil blaze]

What if Rocks D Xebec is the guy with flame mark thoughts?

[burnt mesa]

I have the impression shanks know this character

[grand walrus]

D = dreams is so on the nose it's hard to argue anything else, but if you'll allow me, the D could be an initial representing the culture of the ancient kingdom, as the D is a secret family name which would indicate secret survivors from the past. Even if its not the ancient kingdom, it could be the remnants of an ancient group of people maybe Joy Boys companions? this doesnt pre-clude the possibility that D stands for dreams though.

[oblique isle]

There is the confusion I have maybe you guys can clearfy. When we are talking about "d" is oda going to make it an English word or a Japanese word?

[ocean totem]

I assume it’s just going to be part of their name so there won’t be a different word for it between the languages. There isn’t a different name or pronunciation for Monkey D. Luffy between the two languages, if that makes sense

[balmy willow]

Proper Nouns usually stay the same

[ocean totem]

That would be wild, it would be a cool way to bring him into the story but that would mean he survived God Valley but he was still known to the world as the man marked by flames. It would be weird if he survived, was still prevalent in the world, but no one talked about him or the WG tried to kill him. Who knows though, he could make it make sense

[craggy schooner]

Blackbeard and kid mentioned a man with a burn scar in a manga , everybody says it might be shanks or dragon but i kinda disagree in my opinion . let's go back to fish man island arc that in poneglyph joyboy apologize for destroying noah, also known as the "Ship of Promise" , later it revealed that luffy was joyboy by zunesha. When you check back the shanks's scar it wasnt a burn scar , it was damaged by blackbeard's weapon and i believe that dragon doesnt have a scar on his face instead i think its a tatto to represent the revolutionary army. When you go back to marineford and look it back akainu almost kill luffy and jinbei saved him but it hits directly into his chest and had a burn scar on his chest . Hear me out , i think a man witha burn scar is a luffy in future that unlocked his potential as a joyboy and has the last poneglyph and the black mysterious ship is just oda trolling us or something new is coming i guess

[craggy schooner]

interesting, imu also destoryed the island that sabo was hiding in and sabo is mysteriously missing . he also has a burn scar

maybe he is still alive running from gorosei and world government

[arctic bear]

I have a theory that some devil fruits can't awaken (specifically Paramecias, we have yet to see if Logias can awaken but they aren't part of this conversation since we don't know what a potential Logia awakening would look like)

We know that Paramecia awakenings usually allow the user to affect their surroundings, rather than just their own bodies. This is obviously seen through Katakuri and Doflamingo being able to change the environment into mochi and strings respectively. However, this kind of awakening only really works for DFs that create or control things. There are many Paramecias which arguably have no real way to affect their surroundings, like Bellamy's fruit or Burgess's fruit. How would either of those be able to affect their surroundings? It's just not possible. Therefore, I think that either not all Paramecia awakenings work the same way, or some Paramecias simply cannot awaken.

Zoans are also not a part of this conversation because we know both mythical and regular Zoans can awaken and there are no Zoans that function differently to others unlike with Paramecias, so we can assume that every Zoan can awaken

[devout lagoon]

To be fair no one thought that doffy could make things into string before he did it. The only reason we can understand how current awakens work is because we have already seen them

[arctic bear]

That is entirely possible, though that would end up dividing Paramecias into two categories based on their type of awakening
I think that would be interesting but it might start to complicate devil fruits a bit more

[devout lagoon]

We already have 3 different types of zoan fruits. Who really cares if we get two paramecia types?

[celest creek]

You forget that kid and law have paramecia that have awakenings that don't turn the environment

[arctic bear]

Kid's awakening let's him assign magnetic poles to things that aren't him, so it affects the environment

You have a point with Law's though

[glacial junco]

What do you guys think about my theory on the tenth strawhat? https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/12vpa8r/why_i_believe_the_final_strawhat_is_sentomaru/

[slender fulcrum]

Law fruit base power affect the environment already. Its reversed type.
Room transform everything inside into an " operation room "
The awakening infuse an item with the room power instead

[visual merlin]

I beleive the argument for it would be that usually the room is around himself

but with awakening he can put it around other things or people

so thats why he can put it around his sword for k room or he can put it around BB and BM for R room

[silver sphinx]

So Burgess’s fruit would let other people or things be really strong

[royal spruce]

Okay I'm holding out Hope that the "Man Marked by Flames" is Scopper Gabbon. and it's not just because somebody has to keep the lights on in that house

Reasoning:
During the Marineford Arc when we were getting people's reaction to the news of the upcoming war against Whitebeard, one of the civilians (an old man about Rayleigh's age) wore a distinct pair of glasses much like those of scopper. His fluffy hair may be gone but in place is a distinct flame-like tattoo.

Its possible he has the poneglyph that was originally at fishman island since we've known Rodger's crew has been there.

The whirlpools actually cemented it for me: In the promotional chapter 0 for Strong World We have Shiki (who IS canon) face Rodger with an Armada, only to be thwarted by "convenient whirlpools"

[wild basin]

I read something earlier about Blackbeard insomnia and multiple personality theories. Supposedly, Blackbeard doesn't have insomnia but instead his personalities take turns sleeping and being awake so he always appears to be awake but one of his personalities is actually waking up the other one to take over while it rests

[tepid heron]

I think he is a malfuction clone of Xebec. That's why he is so strange in so many ways.

[grand harbor]

We don’t do spoilers here right? As in we don’t need to block them out or anything?

A good theory I saw a while ago was since ryokugyu was the one who went to Sphinx to capture Edward Weevile, he did the same nutrient suction thing he did to the scabbards in Wano, and given what happened to Shinobu, on top of what we learned from Weeviles mother about his origins, the theory is the next time we see Weevile, he’ll look like prime Whitebeard

[wild basin]

did WB ever deny Weevil being his son? @grand harbor

[spring tapir]

I haven’t finished Wano yet but Marco told Inuarashi that WB never mentioned his type / love life even with his crew so it’s unknown + he wasn’t alive when Weevil was introduced in the story 💀💀

[grand harbor]

I don’t think he ever commented on it himself

But a couple of chapters ago Weevils mom admitted that she had Vegapunk create Weevil as a clone of Whitebeard, in exchange, Vegapunk made a clone of her, who we know as Stussy

Also, can I just comment, on the tragedy of women in one piece who live past the age of 60, because Jesus

Big Mom, Stussy, how is Stussy supposed to live her life knowing THATS what she’s destined to turn into

[snow herald]

What if the black ship is just a ship constantly coated in haki by the who ever is in board. Or it's permanently imbued with haki like you can do with blades

[grand harbor]

What if they feed a ship the ship ship fruit, so it gained all the powers of a ship, but it’s a devil fruit user, so it loses its abilities in water, but it’s also still a ship, so it just floats anyway

[late elm]

it would just be a normal ship becuase it cant communicate like a zoan would be able to and its powers would be nullified by the ocean

[minor leaf]

I think it's the devil fruit user's heart that has to be in water for the devil fruit to work because we have seen luffy use his devil fruit in water even if he is on surface... Like in one of the episodes he saved Ussop who fell in the fishing tank in the ship while catching octopus.....

And I think Moria's Shadow - Shadow fruit will have some important use in future as he was ordered to be killed by Gorosei

[grand harbor]

Oda said most of the body had to be submerged in a standing body of water

Aka why rain, showers and baths don’t affect fruit users

Also I like that Oda felt the need to say that Robin and Nami are basically the only members of the crew who bathe everyday

[snow herald]

I'm surprised sanji doesn't

[pure raven]

Do we have any theory regarding Momo with Kaido’s fruit? Can it awaken even if it’s a fake? Never sit right with me as cool as koi > dragon that fish fruits exist and how they interact with water

[balmy willow]

Kureha looks amazing for 140 or whatever she is. Shaku too

[grand harbor]

Tru

[celest plinth]

gilfs!

[loud storm]

Vegapunk stated the only implication with momos fruit is that it’s pink not blue

[pure raven]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[scenic barn]

the man marked by flames has to be a character who has acted within the last 20 years (as opposed to some kind of ancient guardian of the ponegyph i.e. davy jones, vander decken the first, etc) because the poneglyph they allegedly have is the one form fishman island, which was confirmed to be there in the roger flashback. I think the most likely candidates for the MMBF is someone directly connected to roger (scopper, shiki, egg) that knew where the poneglyph was and commandeered it

additionally, the poneglyph was most likely relinquished as opposed to stolen, because if it had been taken by force we would have already heard about this incident back in fishman island. it would have been a famous tragedy.

[wild basin]

idk. you dont want a lot of people to know where ponyglyphs are so if yours get stolen you may not want to report it or give details because other people are going to know where it was and could be

[scenic barn]

neptune told nice robin and them abt the ancient weapons, so idt any knowledge on the poneglyph whereabouts would be off limits

[wild basin]

but if the ponyglyph was there previously, regardless of if it was stolen or handed over nicely, why wouldn't they mention this to them. Ex... what happened to it?

so obviously there appears to be some secrecy they could or would have been hiding from robin?

[pure raven]

I think it's shikki, he's the only Pirate that no-one has heard from in the last 20 years and has been preparing for destruction for the past decades. I also think it's that certain pirate shanks warning the Gorosei about

And is the last of the Rocks pirate that's yet to be defeated. He's the only person strong enough to be destroying fleets of pirates in the nw

[sudden goblet]

Hello when is next chapter out?

[graceful fulcrum]

How likely is it that the owner of the black ship doesn't actually have a DF capable of whirlpools, just that they are or have fishmen onboard?

[winter furnace]

Just something to through out there the man with a burn scar could be based on henri ceaser who served on edward teaches ship idk just a thought ik to my knowledge henri didn't have a scar but queen Anne's ship is I think black so there is the possibility of another pirate being loosely based on a real pirate

[carmine snow]

One Piece is actually a cooking show that features a group of chefs competing against each other to create the best dishes. Each episode focuses on a different theme, such as seafood or desserts, and the chefs must use their skills and creativity to impress the judges. The winner of each episode receives a prize and moves on to the next round until a final champion is crowned. While cooking is the main focus of the show, there are also dramatic elements as the chefs navigate challenges and unexpected obstacles in the kitchen.

[glacial zephyr]

In japanese culture daruma dolls are used for wishes or "goals". when bought, the daruma's eyes are both blank. When someone has a wish / "goal" they paint in the left eye and when that wish has been fulfilled the right eye is then painted in, with luffy when he was a kid he cut under his left eye symbolising that he found his wish / goal and with zoro his left eye got cut during the timeskip, dragon also has some kind of pattern or scar on his left eye so does shanks. idk just a theory i had prolly wrong tho

[edgy creek]

ONI-CHA

[pure raven]

I do believe that it might be raw Haki manipulation too. Just being able to infuse sea waves sounds great. But, also, there’s this theory of Roger’s ship being impossible to get close to due to heavy whirlpools or something, someone wrote about it in this same channel but can’t find where right now. I think it might be cool to finally have this weather/wind/current fruit displayed but it might just be something else. I’m not sure if Shiki’s fruit work the right use of the awakening could be creating this sort of stuff either.

[fallow bobcat]

Does that mean it could be Gaban and the egg?

[pure raven]

Chaper 1082
What made shanks change his mind of pursuing the one piece .

Is probably related to what roger told him before his death ,when he returned from laugh tale .

But why shanks started to search for it now ? Out of all times .

Shanks went and stole nika devil fruit from who's who , which is not an irrelevant information.

-> Luffy ate it .

Shanks then gives his straw hat to luffy pushing him to pursue him, growing stronger , even if indirectly.
As luffy wanted to become the pirate king because of him .

Giving The straw hat that represents Roger's dream and will.

Now that luffy become strong enough to beat even kaido .
( kaido said the one who would beat him would probably be joyboy )

The requirement for shanks to search for laughtale is there :

" Luffy the holder of the sun god nika power df . "
I assume The requirement is probably nika's heart beat , that may be helpful in laughtale . Not the devil fruit itself.

When luffy awaken his heart beat rhythm changes .

Roger told him at that time, that they were too early , because joy boy is not out yet ,( the holder of the nika devil fruit )
Which is probably a requirement for whatever is in laughtale .

And that shanks is not the one .

That's why shanks waited all those years searching for the nika devil fruit , luffy ( joy boy) is now strong enough to help in his plans.

Back then in the first chapters shanks and his crew where shown depressed in an island then mihawk come and showed him luffy's ever first bounty then become happy and rejoiced ,

meaning that there is still hope as luffy the one who ate the god nika df , the requirements for whatever in laughtale , is really pursuing the one piece .

Shanks was still doubting if luffy will start his journey , and was afraid the nika df will go in vain .

And as such he saw that there is still hope.
@hollow viper

[iron current]

yeah, definitely where my mind about this is as well, i would even go as far and say originally Shanks planned to give this fruit to Rogers son but then Luffy ate it and said the same stuff like his former captain

[pure raven]

Yeah read back what I said in the end , I modified something.

It proves more the point

[sturdy hawk]

T-BONE IS INFILTRATING CROSS GUilD
At the start of chapter 1082, we find out T-bone (now promoted to vice admiral) was killed

What is most interesting about this panel, is that details are not disclosed by the Navy -

• and the government don't know them.

In fact, the whole convo between Tsuru and Sengoku is about being behind on a lot of the info, for instance Sword and Garp attacking Beehive

[sturdy hawk]

T-Bone's death by a weak citizen could be easily explained, as he would refuse to attack any civillian.

However, I believe T-Bone was thinking ahead.
He could let himself get killed, or he could play dead, so that the poor man's family would get money for it regardless, while also infiltrating Cross Guild.

This play would be a smart move for T-Bone especially, considering his gag in Enies Lobby was people thinking he was a corpse, and it wouldn't be unrealistic for Buggy to not be competent enough to check if he was actually dead or not

Coincidentally, the issue T-Bone would have been thinking ahead on, Sengoku just realised (adding to the fact they are lacking behind)

BONUS: This would be a way for the news of Buggy making his move to get leaked.
And additionally, at the end of this chapter, we have Sabo explaining how he called the revos in order to make the government believe he died

[iron current]

Roger didnt need to tell Shanks what the One Piece is, just that the fruit is important for who ever is the next one to go for it. him keeping tabs on BB is just natural. He even went to WB about him. He knows BB is dangerous and shouldnt get his hands on Luffy and his fruit as we know BB has gone after it before. Thats what Shanks feared, that BB would snoop in at the end and try to snatch some powerful fruits of who ever survived the battle

[pure raven]

The difference that push me to think that's not about Blackbeard.
Is the fact shanks , wanted back then to go to laughtale.

He told buggy he was not ready yet, and that he changed his mind just for now " atleast "

Meaning he has something in mind that push him to not pursue it for now but in the futur he will , after whatever is needed for laughtale.

Cause he wasn't ready , not that he doesn't want to .

So it's not Blackbeard that push him now , but that he is now ready for whatever is the reason that made him not to back then

it was not Blackbeard

It's all about the not " ready yet " and now " ready to "

Also shanks asked roger many question if you look at the panels I shared upp 👆 , not just one .
So we may assume he asked probably more than just about Roger's illness
Shanks knows things buggy doesn't,
That's why buggy was disappointed

hello

[robust wagon]

Yo. Im iffy about that being sabo. Might be Catarina....

[ocean totem]

I don’t know, when Roger said we’re too early it doesn’t seem to me like he meant he didn’t have something. I doubt it explicitly stated the Nika fruit was necessary if it did he would said “we don’t have this thing”. Also about the Shanks thing I don’t think Roger would’ve spoiled anything regarding the One Piece to Shanks. Roger is similar to Luffy in that regard I think. Shanks is a resourceful guy and may have found out about the importance of the Nika fruit separate from Roger.

[royal viper]

Mihawk really scared to fight anyone, what's up with him

[iron current]

he sees Luffys awakening in the newspaper and his reaction is "we should go for the One Piece" thats not a coincidence. and no. Why would Roger have to say "we are missing this thing" No reason. And like i said, he didnt have to spoil anything to Shanks about the One Piece. Saying that fruit is important doesnt spoil anything. like nothing at all.

[royal viper]

"you reall expect us to fight red haired and BB pirates and strawhats "

[pure raven]

The nika devil fruit has its own will like the gorosei said , the joy boy was not born yet .

Nika Devil fruit chose luffy.

And like Chrissy said shanks decided after luffy's awakening
Perfect timing

[iron current]

not the channel for this discussion but who says he is scared lol

[royal viper]

His obvious face of concern 💀

[iron current]

lets move this to #manga-serious

[ocean totem]

It could have been his awakening maybe but how would Shanks have known what it looked like? Also I’m pretty it’s because Luffy in his eyes has became a great pirate because he defeated Kaido. I am not saying he had to have said that but him saying we’re too early does not indicate the Nika fruit is necessary to claim the One Piece. And it definitely could spoil it. These are pirates with dreams and love for adventure, if Roger told Shanks you can’t claim it without the Nika fruit that would kill his love for adventure. This is why I said he’s similar to Luffy. Recall how mad Luffy got when Usopp wanted Rayleigh to spoil the One Piece. Or how he crushed the eternal pose to Laugh Tale (non cannon I know). If he didn’t want people to spoil anything about it for him he wouldn’t do it for other people. Similarly Roger shouldn’t do it either, especially because Shanks and Buggy missed it.

[iron current]

the thing is, Roger didnt need to tell him "you cant claim the One Piece without the fruit" there is a reason they said they were too early. Nika is probably needed for what ever the One Piece implicates for the world. So all Roger would have said to him was "even if you go for the One Piece right now. It wouldnt change anything"

[pure raven]

The only difference between Roger's time and now , is joyboy

What make it too early then and not now is all about joyboy presence .

And joy boy is luffy as he hold the nika devil fruit .

Read this : ->

The original Joy Boy left messages regarding his return 800 years later. One of those messages was to Fish-Man Island and to Poseidon, apologizing for breaking his promise, and promising that someone would fulfill it in the future.[3] Another message was left at the unnamed island, claiming that he would return in 800 years' time.[5]

When the Roger Pirates conquered the Grand Line by reaching the then unnamed island, they read the message and learned the true history of the world but decided to leave it as is, as they were too early.

[ocean totem]

Of course there is a reason they were too early. What I am saying is it would be out of Roger’s adventure loving character to tell Shanks that. This is why he laughed when he realized his entire voyage was for nothing.

[pure raven]

As zunecha was affiliated with joyboy 800 years ago , and recognized, his hearth beats when luffy awakened

It means joyboy is linked to Nika Devil fruit
And is the only difference between roger time and Now

So nika devil fruit is essential for whatever is in laughtale.

And that's what probably roger told directly or indirectly,
when shanks asked many question back then .
Which made him stop thinking to go for laughtale at that time only

--> Too early cause the nika devil fruit didn't chose his holder yet , as it has its own will

[ocean totem]

The thing is, I don’t think Shanks asked Roger about it. He said he would make it there later because he didn’t want to leave Buggy out. So if he was going to go later why would he ask about it? It is Joyboy’s treasure and maybe the Nika fruit is necessary however, Shanks deciding to get the one piece after seeing Luffy’s poster can be explained without him knowing somehow what the awakening looks like. He defeated a yonko and has obtained almost all road poneglyphs. He is a great pirate in Shanks eyes. So he wants to meet and fight him where he knows Luffy will be, which is Laugh Tale.

[pure raven]

Shanks doesn't need to ask directly about the devil fruit or joyboy .

As it was stated shanks asked many questions :
Roger responded and he probably explained why roger chose to get executed and why they were too early .

Also Joyboy himself said he will return 800 years later , as the moment luffy awakened.
And not the time where roger found laughtale .

He came back 800 years after, either the day luffy ate nika df or the day he awakened.

So now is the time.

[radiant lark]

Sabo gon get blue flames when his fruit awakens (source: ong)

[pure raven]

And yeah it's not necessarily about luffy awakening but more about the fact shanks know that the devil fruit is required before he stole it

Now luffy beating kaido and awakneing marks the perfect timing to get to find laughtale , as the requirement is near laughtale too.
Luffy and shanks are now at the same ground level

[royal viper]

Nah mane

Luffy at best gets a hit or two , shanks definitely up when it comes to next level haki

Ik ik kaido got crazy haki but you keep FORGETTING he strong mostly because of his devil fruit

[ocean totem]

I agree, he stole it knowing full well what fruit it was. However, I just think it would be really disappointing if the One Piece was basically locked away to everybody unless you have the Nika Fruit.

Unless the act of awakening the fruit itself “unlocks” the one piece. Then anyone could get it, that would be interesting. But if the awakened Nika Fruit has to be present and Laugh Tale and it is the only thing that can claim it, would be really disappointing. That would mean no one else had a chance.

[royal viper]

Not even in influence

Shanks fleet alone can destroy strawhats fleet

What does strength gotta do with influence?

Basically overtaking ppl and making new rules

[ocean totem]

Shanks has the weakest fleet. Shanks just protects them. The grand fleet would wreck them more than likely, obviously if Shanks wasn’t there

[pure raven]

It is what it is sadly .

I talked about this in my theory Do you remember when shanks and his crew were depressed in an island.

Only got rejoiced after mihawk come and showed shanks luffy's first bounty ?

I will just assume based on all the information we concluded , there is no actual proof why they were there and in that state.

they have been depressed because the very requirement they need to whatever is in laughtale has been eaten by a litle boy and they are not 100% sure he would pursue the pirate king dream .

They were still doubting luffy .

But after mihawk shows the 30B bounty he got rejoiced and wanted to feast .

It's not about being happy for luffy , but that shanks has still hope to achieve his goal and Roger's dream.
Because without it , there is no hope .
They may find the island but nothing else ...

Luffy dream = roger dream
Shanks didn't just give the straw hat for noting

So yeah sadly but the nika devil fruit is likely a requirement for whatever is in laughtale.

Shanks after that only had to wait for luffy to grow stronger and get near laughtale and then there will come a time where he would have to start moving too .

Its not a coincidence why shanks said to whitebeard he bet his arm on the next generation

The requirement for what ever is in laugh tale is probably nika's heart beat , that may be helpful in laughtale . Not the devil fruit itself.

When luffy awaken his heart beat rhythm changes . To nika -> to joy boy

[pure raven]

True and it is said that joy boy was the one who left one piece on laugh tale so definitely nika fruit awakening is needed to use OP

[ashen surge]

The same paper had the intel that previous Yonkos have been defeated so their poneglyphs are much easier to get than previously. That’s the reason why Shanks is moving

[iron current]

possible but i disagree

[ashen surge]

Why wouldn’t you go for the most simple reason

[pure raven]

Because the reason shanks didn't want to go for laugh tale back then , when he talked with Roger and buggy , is related to what make him move right now .

It's not about poneglyphe.
It's about what made him postpone.

[ashen surge]

24 years is a long time. ”i’m not gonna do it right now” and ”this is an excellent opportunity to do this” are different things

[pure raven]

No , you forget that the reason that made him change his mind is related to what roger told him , after shanks asked him many questions

All those points are related .

[ashen surge]

I have my own theories about Shank’s motivations and I think what made him move is the fact that he wants to gatekeep One Piece

[pure raven]

If he wanted to gatekeep the one piece he could have taken a poneglyphe and he would have stopped anyone from going there

[ashen surge]

Could he? That’s what he’s doing right now in my opinion

[pure raven]

There is no point to fight in the final line , while you can prevent it from the source

[pure raven]

👆Read my theory I explain my point of view there

[ashen surge]

Before Zou the poneglyph distribution was like this.

WCI: Big Mom
Wano: Kaido
Zou, moving location: no one
Last one: ???

After Wano:

WCI: Kid, Luffy
Wano: Kidd, Luffy, Law
Zou: Law, Luffy
Last one: ????

The rio poneglyph supply has increased a fuck ton recently and it’s the perfect time to move

[pure raven]

Then what's the point we should conclude?

[ashen surge]

That Shanks is fearful that someone will actually find One Piece and he wants to stop that

[pure raven]

If he was fearfull he should have fought kaido for example ans take his poneglyphe, did kaido or big mom never wanted to go to laughtale?

Why being fearfully now?
I think it's not that convincing for me

[ashen surge]

Sounds like you’re not understanding the immense risks of Shanks just trying to go and grab Kaidos and Big Mom’s poneglyphs

[pure raven]

Also he always had the ambition back then ,he was just not ready back then , but now he is ready .
that means his goal is to find laughtale no gatekeep it like he always been

[ashen surge]

Two people having possession of one poneglyph each is fine. 75% of poneglyphs running around freely isn’t fine anymore

[pure raven]

You should read my theory , the point is he had never a reason to go for any poneglyphe when even if he did went there .

He would gain nothing , like roger .

Cause what made him postpone was something that he doesn't possess neither that time and not now .

[ashen surge]

I read it and I think you have massively misunderstood what One Piece is about. Shanks masterminding Nika fruit and feeding it to Luffy would take away 100% of Luffys own agency

[pure raven]

He didn't have to fight kaido nor big mom at all , cause he is not afraid of them going to laugh tale they will gain also nothing .

Thats why he never made a move to prevent them

[ashen surge]

And One Piece is all about existentialism, personal agency and your right to choose your own life.

[pure raven]

He didn't feed it to him that's the point ,

The devil fruit has its own will , the gorosei said it .

the devil fruit chose its holder ( joy boy ) luffy

Joyboy said back 800 years ago he will come back years later .

That's where is the point , roger was not in the time that joy boy indicated back then

[ashen surge]

It ain’t only about Joy Boy, Poseidon has a role too

[pure raven]

It's all about this , that's why they were too early , and that's why shanks didn't need to go for laugh tale .

Cause joy boy time was not up yet ( devil fruit nika )

Roger knew it and learnt about it in laugh tale , and probably told shanks , when he asked him many question .

That's probably why shanks stol the devil fruit from who's who

It's all linked

Luffy was the bet that shanks has taken , he told it to whitebeard .

I bet my arm in the next generation.

Shanks was waiting for luffy to grow .

And when the times come he will make a move to laugh tale

The devil fruit was the requirement shanks needed

[ashen surge]

It could be linked but ”Shanks knowing about Nika fruit and specifically sailing the seas in the search for it only to accidentally feed it to Luffy” would make an absolute shit writing and story decisions

[pure raven]

Its not by accident

It's the will of the devil fruit ( nika aka joy boy )

[pure raven]

The fruit literally doesnt want to be eaten

[ashen surge]

We don’t know that. We’ve only heard that WG has lost the sight of it multiple times

[pure raven]

No they said , that it's almost like the devil fruit is evading us .

And that zoan fruits countain a will of their own . Especially this one has the name of a God

[ashen surge]

almost like. If you’re a shit shop like the WG who has zero capability in finesse, it’s easy to outsource your own shortcomings to some superficial bullshit

[pure raven]

They added it has its free will , which they explain by it , why they feel it's almost like evading them.

But surely has a will of its own. It's a fact

Seems like you are disappointed that the one piece may have been Meant for luffy from the start even naratively .
Like " fate "
@ashen surge

And that others had no chance to begin with

[ashen surge]

Absolutely because the whole morale of One Piece is about existentialism and not fate. Blackbeard is the one who believes in fate and he’s the one who is wrong

[modest skiff]

The idea of fate and cause and effect can be difficult to separate, and it’s a topic in philosophy for a reason. If we know either people are the fruit and failed to awaken it, we know the fruit can be eaten by people other than Luffy. And if it has been awakened before, Luffy isn’t the only one who can awaken it.

I don’t think we have any good reason to assume it’s all some kinda scripted and predetermined dynamic. As an example, Oden felt like it was extremely important to open Wano before Joyboy arrived. If we assume Luffy is Joyboy, it is easy to assume it was not actually necessary for Wano to be opened before Joyboy arrived. Or maybe something bad was set in motion we are not aware of. It’s hard to say. But either way, someone who was very aware of this whole 20 years thing appears to have misjudged the situation, which implies it’s not as simple as you are describing

[orchid abyss]

Blackbeard has a lot of knowledge of devil fruits and there’s already the theory of him being awakened based on how long he waited for his fruit. I bet that his awakening is the ability to replicate devil fruit abilities and to replicate more complex fruit abilities he has to absorb the DF power like when he negates someone’s fruit power.

[pure raven]

You miss 2 point, which imply fate as a big pillar in one piece

First joy boy left 3 message where he promised his return 800 years later .

Secondly roger saying they were too early which is probably related to the first one .

Joyboy talking about the futur like that means that there is a fatality that will happen .

And roger saying that he was too early , means that he unveil that point and understood, that the fatality wasn't at his time-life

[ashen surge]

Fate and window of opportunity for action are different things

[modest skiff]

This conversation has drifted into more of a "how can we define fate" topic, so let's please move it to #manga-serious

[plush laurel]

I have a theory about laugh tale and the one piece that goes like this: laugh tale is the island that the ancient advanced civilization that existed during the void century, that was destroyed by the 20 nations (the now celestial dragons/world nobles) and wiped from the history books, because 1) they invented Devil Fruits 2) they created the 3 weapons Poseidon, Pluton, and Uranus 3) built spaceships and used them to put one of the weapons Uranus (a satellite capable of using pin point laser weaponry) into space. Imu now has control of Uranus and it was used to destroy Lulusia. But the big part of this theory is that the One Piece treasure is actually a spaceship and the reason Roger said he was too early is because he knew there was no way to power it with the technology currently available and that he wished he could've lived during joyboy's time because of all the crazy advanced technology they had. Roger and Luffy share the same dream of wanting to "sail the stars" or go to space which can be done if Vegapunk completes his ultimate renewable clean energy source to power the spaceship which the whole strawhat crew board and venture into outer space ending OP....and beginning Oda's next manga SPACE ONE PIECE! LOL!

Its just a fun silly theory I thought about with my older brother

[ashen surge]

You're really not awfully far off what discussions have occured here. Some think that Roger's and Luffy's dream is to be the first person to "sail the stars" and Roger laughed when he realized that it had already happened.

[wild basin]

this actually may be what happens lol

[plush laurel]

That's awesome that others have thought similarly about OP. I've been a fan forever but never paid attention to fan theories because people tend to take them way too seriously lol but it's fun to throw things out there and talk about it, right?

I really like the Roger laughed when he realized that it had already happened as the reason why he laughed when they got to the last island

[plush laurel]

Did you ever watch the TorikoXDBZXOne Peice ova? I mean if Goku and the gang, who travel space regularly, and Toriko ends with Toriko and Komatsu in space, and they crossed over I dont think it's too much of a stretch to have the Straw hats end up there too.

Idk if it might actually happen but I'll shit myself laughing if it does lol!

[wild basin]

yea im just trying to think of how Oda would draw outer space lol

in regards to everyone postulating Shanks could be a potential inside man, celestial dragon, informant, royal family member, etc...: If you go back to when shanks was discovered, he was inside of a treasure chest I believe? I think he could have been fooling around inside some of his (royal) families vast treasures and accidently fell over board or left behind, and eventually made it to Roger where he started his new life. By the time he did make it back to the WG he was already somewhat attached to Rogers and being a pirate but he also missed his family a bit so he made contact with them at some point (the elders being linked to it) and that is how he developed this double life situation

If you look at his personality and some of the things he said, he is very easy going for the most part and I can see someone like him trying to adapt to a situation like this in such manner (if it happened)

it could have been buggy that initially got him into this position since buggy is in love with treasure, which brings me to another potential possibility: shanks and buggy could be brothers or related in some way based on their origins with each other

[obsidian yoke]

My theory is that Buggy is the son of Rocks. It's a contrast with Shanks who is Child of a World Noble and would unnecessary put him on a higher pedal stool than he wants to be. Plus it would give the WG more reasons to unnecessarily fear him.

Both him and Shanks are the children of God Valley and serve as the counter to the WG whole ideology about birth and bloodline. Rocks the strongest pirate captain's son is not like him, he is a sniveling coward instead of a looming badass. Shanks is a noble, of supposed divine blood but he one of the biggest and most dangerous pirates in the world and actively opposes the government when it suits him

[wild basin]

I can see that

[obsidian yoke]

Plus it kind of works if Buggy does become recognized as the pirate king. The son of Rodgers's greatest rival became the one who takes his title would be priceless to those idiot marines

[late elm]

Just had some thoughts about the black ship. Possible lunarian survivors. Mostly because of all of the correlations between the color black and lunarians. Because of how rare they are in modern day and how they basically all have huge targets above their heads due to the world government its understandable that they would be cautious of ever stopping on an inhabited island and generally desire to be off the grid and secretive.

We dont have concrete facts yet but we can assume there are more lunarians out there due to the fact that king exists. King had to have parents and seeing how he was captured in his teenage years either A. he has been an orphan most of his life, or B. He was stolen from his parents/group. From the drawing of him as a child he looks happy and content with his life (SBS 103) unlike some of the characters we've seen drawn as children who usually look angry and broken such as whitebeard, blackbeard, law, akainu, and mihawk (akainu and mihawk unconfirmed as orphans but judging by their child drawings they look pretty wrecked).

This leads me to believe that before he was captured by the WG he had to have had a family group he was being looked after by. My gut is telling me that the tattoo king has of the sprout/branch is a right of passage mainly because he did not have the tattoo as a child but he did when he was a young teenager while captured at punk hazard. We can see this historically around the real world where young men around their teenage years would have to go through rigorous tests of will and strength to be recognized by the community as real men. Perhaps king had just completed these trials and gotten his tattoo right before he was captured by the WG. This is stretching it a bit but if king was captured at such a relatively young age he probably didn't have the chance to become a fully realized lunarian like his ancestors before him and perhaps because of that he was not able to obtain the secrets the elder lunarians kept.

Because of other imagery such as Giollas Heaven's Door Art ability where there is a large presence of flora and an almost exact copy of kings tattoo in it as well as many devil fruit swirls it leads me to believe that lunarians were originally the protectors of devil fruits or at least had advanced knowledge about cultivating and harvesting devil fruits hence the floral tattoo king has. Possibly lunarians had secret knowledge on how to control the weather to aid in growing the perfect fruits or were so advanced in agriculture and herbology they were able to grow superpowered versions of usopps pop greens that could do almost anything including creating whirlpools. Another interpretation of Giollas ability might pertain to devil fruits triumphing over the Lunarian gods.

As for the man with burn scars, possibly he is the inheritor of the lunarians will. Perhaps the name "man with burn scars" is more of a symbolic thing such as scars meaning remembering what happened to the lunarians and obviously burns meaning the flames that lunarians are known for. The black ship might have originally belonged to the last surviving lunarians and the man with burn scars had a relationship with the lunarians before they were wiped out in a horrific way. If this event lead the man with burn scars to be the protector of the last road poneglyph we can assume that the poneglyph was already being protected by the lunarians before the man with the burn scars. The common trend of the ancient kingdom leaving poneglyphs with non-human races also continues with this.

I know some of this is stretching a bit such as the weather control so take it all with a grain of salt. This was more of a stream of consciousness experiment at 4 am than an actual organized theory.

TLDR; Lunarian survivors are the protectors of the final road poneglyph.

[runic dragon]

Any theory on how Sabo and the people from Lulusia are alive?

[visual merlin]

sabo wasnt on lulusia

how some of those civilians knew to get off the island though idk

[devout lagoon]

Bro was just chilling on a boat

[iron current]

i mean Sabo tells us how he is alive,he wasnt on the island when it happened, but who knows how the citizens with the princess knew to get on a boat, maybe they already had decided to leave to join the Revs

[runic dragon]

I guess that's the only possible explanation. We'll have to wait and see what he has to say about what happened at Marie Geoise.

[steady prism]

!theories friendly reminder to take shorter questions/observations to #manga or #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[pure raven]

Also this channel should be only for theories , not even discussing them .

If you want to, one should ping the theory writer to ask or criticize it in #manga-serious

Don't know why it's allowed to discuss with the theory owner here

[steady prism]

Discussing the merits of someone’s theory here is perfectly fine. It’s only when the discussion goes into a tangent that’s unrelated to the original theory is when you should move it to #manga-serious

[pure raven]

it may be , but the theories just disappear witht the flux of the discussions , so others won't be able to read it or find it , unless it's pinned . And most of them are not.

Just my suggestion , but you know better

[steady prism]

Thanks for the suggestion. Some theories unfortunately fade away while others resonate with enough people to generate good discussions. Maybe in the future there’ll be a way to promote lesser-known ones, but for now this has worked well for us.

[errant pasture]

Roger handover his precious straw hat to shanks and said him take precious care of it. Buggy all see it behind and realizes that he is not the one who will fulfil roger footstep he is not capable to do so. Shanks had potential and is capable and hence buggy gave up on his dream and ran away from ship with tears running around his cheeks. when time came for sail everyone find buggy but he found nowhere. Buggy was kidnappped by the citizens of the evil village in order to bait roger pirates and capture them for bounty and start tormenting buggy. When roger knew about it he destroyed the entire village. *( It was said in one chapter that roger is a monster who destroyed the entire village for his nakama . That's my story about how that might goes.)

inspired from ch 1082

[steady prism]

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

@hallow gyro links to a top 5 list isn’t really a theory. Please use #manga instead

[steady prism]

@dark gazelle Sorry, had to delete your post due to the numerous detailed references to other series; please refrain from using other series to justify any claims you make in these manga channels. We have #other-series and #western-series for that.

More importantly, we ask that theories here are supported using in-story evidence/reasoning rather than other media. Your premise that Luffy is focused on the journey rather than the destination is a valid meta interpretation of his journey in the story when compared to other pieces of literature. However, regardless of how silly Luffy may be, he has always professed that his goal is to be the pirate king and his actions throughout the story are stepping stones towards a goal, which we have already seen is achievable via Roger’s 20-something year-long journey. I’d be interested to learn what evidence there might be in the story that shows he doesn’t care about the treasure.

Please feel free to repost your theory with the appropriate in-story evidence/reasoning. Otherwise this idea may be better received in #manga-serious . Also @desert notch same goes to you, please don’t go in-depth about plots from another series here.

[worldly owl]

Was just rereading end of wano and just realized the man marked by flames could be the “certain someone” Caribou was talking about in chapter 1056 who would be interested to know about Pluton. Could also be the same person with an eye-patch, signaling end of one piece is coming (in a few years obviously)

Both the certain someone and man marked by flames were mentioned in the same chapter. It’s not really a stretch to think those two could be the same person

[icy pebble]

your not far off could just be a different name for them shanks is called by 2 names red hair and shanks so oda does sometimes use double names for a person

[uncut barn]

true

[ember nebula]

Do you think Shanks could still turn out to be the antagonist ?

[modest skiff]

Please ask brief questions like this in the other manga channels in the future since this channel is reserved for in depth theories. But to address your question, I think this scene eliminates any evil shanks theories from consideration because it was entirely internal monologue

[late elm]

Feels like shanks is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Obviously due to his contact with the gorosei and the film red reveals about the figarland family it implies that shanks has some sort of royalty in his bloodline whether its celestial dragon or one of the 20 kings in some way. He was raised by the king of the pirates and is a pirate emperor himself and wants to protect the ones he cares about but at the same time is cursed by knowing he is part of the families that oppress the world. I think the main draw of the "evil shanks" theories is just because of his contact with the gorosei and people dont take into consideration all of the instances of shanks promoting peace.

[shy torrent]

Does anyone have theory about the hidden meaning of bounties ?

[devout lagoon]

hidden meaning of bounties? can you please elaborate in #manga-serious

[steady prism]

@rancid elbow sharing links to theories is fine, but in this channel we ask that people provide a summary on what it’s about. This is requested in order to gather interest to it (without needing to click it) and overall foster better discussions. The summary doesn’t have to be long, just state the premise and mention 2-3 pieces of evidence/reasoning it uses.

[heavy sage]

I saw an interesting video where a dude called into a show about why he suspects Blackbeard was going after Boa Hancock. If we are to say that Blackbeard has 3 personalities and can theoretically have 3 devil fruits, than taking Boas would be ideal for his world conquest (if that’s what he desires to ultimately accomplish). By using her power, he can turn anyone including devil fruit users to stone. If BB turns all the people who oppose him to stone, including DF users, they would never die and so the DF would not be reincarnated into another fruit. This would eliminate future rivals and keep a monopoly of devil fruits within BB’s circle.

[analog sun]

I've been thinking about the classic theory of D being the shape of a half circle and how it becomes a circle when joined with its symmetrical opposite to form "One Piece".

There's also this recurring theme of scars and mutilations happening mostly on people's left sides (most missing arms are left arms, many important characters have scars or marks around their left eye). There's also the classic Yuderon theory involving Jaya's missing left eye.

Basically what I'm getting at is that those two theories jive very well together: D is not just any half of a circle, it's the "left" one when you see the circle as a face. The will of D. fits very well in that case as the will of the people from the left half of the unified "One Piece" world. In this case i don't think there's any geographic or political meaning to the "left", but rather that it's one of two halves.

I know this brings nothing new to the theory landscape but the fact that these two very popular theories combine so well does give each one more legitimacy, even if it still isn't a grand unified theory of everything.

[modest skiff]

One thing to add is that left is associated with sinister, https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/sinister-left-dexter-right-history#:~:text=The word sinister%2C suggestive of,handed people within a population.

The recurring idea of “devil” in One Piece also relates to the left=sinister stuff

[analog sun]

Oh hell yes! That does fit perfectly and the "devil" and "enemy of God" things are consistently mentioned when the lore gets serious.
I feel like all this piling evidence between different breadcrumb trails is gonna lead to something much bigger than i can think of. For example there's a lot of real life piracy references that are very relevant to the story, and i feel like that might end up tying to this left side stuff

[modest skiff]

I had tried to figure out how left could fit in previously, but I hit a dead end and just had the devil association. So I appreciate you summarizing all of this. I am not sure where else to take the thought, but I do think it is worth noting other times when stuff happens to someone’s left etc

[modest skiff]

Yeah I understand the inclination to label him as evil, but I think it’s a hard case to argue at this point. The inner monologue + raging at Green Bull is hard to ignore.

[analog sun]

The croc thing reminds me of another thing that may be connected: we've been seeing more and more of the people who were at Roger's execution. The fact that the trio at the head of cross guild was there is already pretty big.
Many of them have a left side thing (croc hook, dragon face, shanks arm and face). It's not all of them, nor is it linked to D directly that we know of, but it's a lot of coincidences.
The fact that Moria who was otherwise fairly minor is still around makes me think that group will have a role to play in the end.
Edit: oh and Doffy being kept in jail and shown from time to time points to him showing up again before the end. These shackles aren't gonna hold him forever

[devout lagoon]

The inner monologue is what seals it for me. Shanks isn’t evil

[rancid elbow]

Got you, the way I shared the linked should have have the details/photos but I will resent it with 2 3 pieces of evidence. It was about the Will of D

[steady prism]

!theories @rapid oar not the place for one-line theories like that. This channel’s for long in-depth theories so please elaborate and provide a good amount of in-story evidence/reasoning to support it. Else, feel free to resend it to #manga as-is

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[fierce patrol]

The man with a burn scar was once a slave and the burn scar is from the branding mark, they stole the poneglyph from marijouis when they where freed

[iron current]

Problem with that is the poneglyph was at Fishmen Island, not Mary Geoise when it vanished

[fierce patrol]

A fishman who was a slave then, potentially one fisher tiger freed, that would explain the whirl pools sicking ships, fishmen hav control over the sea

[steady prism]

Interesting thoughts, but please use #manga-serious for shorter observations like that

[manic turret]

Waaaait. This. Two D's of opposing sides must be joined to make a full circle right.

So what if luffy and blackbeard have to meet at Raftel to bring forth One piece by joining their powers?

And what if Roger could not do it since he had already beaten his opposing force, Rocks D Xebec?!?

By now i dont think it would be too far out that roger were the previous owner of the Nika fruit.
We just havent been told 🤷‍♂️
Oda being Oda

[devout lagoon]

Roger had no df, it’s been confirmed

[analog sun]

Could the fruit be a separate thing that's not necessarily needed? Regardless, i like the idea of Roger needing Xebec and laughing about it! But there's certainly also an aspect of time with the birth of Poseidon, so it's probably not just about the two halves

[copper oriole]

Since Oda clarified that chopper won’t be able to cure smiles and that it wasn’t cureable
What if instead of cure them vegapunk unlocked their potentially latent devil fruit powers
Ceaser was an idiot but that could be an interesting way of “curing” them without actually curing them
Or implement a seraphim style circulation to control when they use the devil fruit powers

[late elm]

I think with smiles its more the idea that they arent real devil fruits and only attempt to imitate devil fruits. Real devil fruits all have unique wills of their own but smiles dont due to being artifically made. Smiles are basically empty shells that retain only parts of the devil fruit and have no will of their own. Thats why we see people who have successfully gained the power of a smile fruit only having parts of animals and never a whole animal. Vegapunk wont be able to unlock any latent abilities in smile users because the rest of the devil fruit they need is simply not there.

[glacial junco]

I think I know what the one piece is. Here’s my theory. It came to me when kaido asked luffy what kind of world he wanted to create. he said “ A world where my friends can eat as much as they want that’s my kind of world” Think of one of the biggest problems facing the one piece world. Starvation and poverty mainly because of the celestial tribute. And for other reasons. That leads into my theory. The one piece is an infinite source of energy that could create whatever it wants. And is powered by the dreams and desires of people. Look at what’s happening on egghead a place centuries into the future. Machines that could create anything the person wants. The reveal of devil fruits being created because of peoples wants and desires. If egghead resembles the future world that luffy wants to create this indicates that luffy succeeds in his goal of creating said world. Now if the people of the one piece world got their hands on an infinite resource that could feed or create whatever it wanted so that there would always be more than enough for everyone wouldn’t that “turn the world upside down.” This explains the title of the series. There is no need to divide the treasure into two or three pieces. One piece is enough to go around for everyone to share and use . And this wouldn’t be given to them by the WG it would be by pirates. I think the government knows at least to some extend what the one piece is and what it can do and it will do whatever it takes to keep this from the world at large in order to maintain their grip on the OP world. Which explains why whitebeard didn’t want the treasure. It creates what you desire but whitebeard only desired a family. Which he already had with his crew.

[tardy pulsar]

i like this concept but i don’t think it’s entirely on point because why would roger laugh and say he’s “20 years too early” if it were to be something that grants whatever you desire

[vale aspen]

i know why, because shirahoshi wasn't born yet when roger went to laugh tale.

[glacial junco]

Well it’s likely a piece of ancient technology. So the machine or whatever it isn’t fully prepared until a certain point in time. Or unless certain conditions are met

[vale aspen]

the secret to the unlimited energy source utilized by the giant mech robot in egghead would be found in laugh tale

[glacial junco]

My theory reminds me of the Star forge and infinite engine in the kotor/TOR series.

[vale aspen]

where the ancient kingdom is like the rakatan empire?

[vale ocean]

I think it seems right to assume that it is something that would plunge the one piece world into the modern era

[glacial junco]

Yeah basically. And at the end of the series. There is going to be a massive technological advancement because of the ancient tech of the lost empire of 900 years prior. I’m guessing there was a massive centuries long war between that empire and the entity that became the world government. It ended with an apocalyptic event. And the world rebuilt under the reign of the celestial dragons.

[modest skiff]

@vale aspen my apologies for deleting your post, i did not realize you were responding to the theory above. Totally valid question to ask as a follow up here

[vale aspen]

all good

[strong ibex]

Are allowed to post YouTube links on theories?

[steady prism]

Sharing links to a theory is fine but we ask that people also provide a short summary of it so that people know what they’re getting themselves into. If you could please give us some details on the premise of the theory and 3-4 pieces of evidence used to support it that’d be helpful.

[strong ibex]

I think I’ll post on Manga serious. I don’t have proof another than what’s said in the video. I would be just regurgitating that.

[steady prism]

All you’re doing is summarizing the video, regurgitating and/or shortening details is fine. But you’re welcome to share it in #manga-serious as well. Whatever you prefer

[strong ibex]

Ah okay! Thanks!

[visual pumice]

Random , but wouldn't the strongest will of Haki be after death? Or on the verge of death.

[ashen surge]

@visual pumice this channel is for long, in-depth theories. #manga-serious, or rather #manga and #also-manga would be more appropriate

[visual pumice]

First shown with Rogers sparking the pirate era. Forcing his will before he dies onto other pirates. We than see Whitebeard in marineford , with his head half blasted away. And once again sparking the will of his onto others that the onepiece is real. Oden did something similar before his death but with the people of wano and his scabbards. Afterwards, we see luffy pretty much die before awakening gear 5. Most likely the will of joyboy to keep him alive or the will of beating kaido. Just a random/thought theory. But possibly the strongest will/haki happens on death's door.

[karmic stream]

Small theory:

Since Devil Fruits aren't exactly natural, Haki had to have been the main source of power long before even the ancient kingdom. Devil fruits not entirely being natural things can be overcome by strong enough haki. Playing with the idea of man vs nature in a way.

I suspect intelligent/strong enough animals like that monkey on Shank's crew having at least Armament haki. I think devil fruits started with the ancient kingdom because of how technologically advanced they had to have been. But haki was always the man source for supernatural abilities.

Not married to this, but maybe their's some lost form of Haki that is able to manifest things into reality, like devil fruits

But I think we need to see how a natural devil fruit is created in the first place

[merry rune]

Caribou is gonna tell Crocodile about the location of pluton. By far Crocodile is the pirate who has shown the most interest in the ancient weapons and if he were to get pluton it would actually set up The Cross Guild as a huge threat. In chapter 1082, Crocodile speaks with Mihawk about starting to attain huge military strength/ power. Now it'd be perfect for them to made aware of an ancient weapon AND its location. no need for robin when you have caribou. I also don't believe its a coincidence that in the EXACT same chapter that its revealed Caribou over heard that pluton was in Wano and said he had a certain someone who'd love to hear about it and then Crocodile gets reintroduced to the story to in that same chapter.

[analog sun]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense but given his personality, could it be that Caribou is actually loyal to Buggy? Not that it changes the outcome, but i could see it as a fun answer to "who is this very lucky spy working for?"

Regardless, it would be amazing to see croc get his hook on Pluton !

[merry rune]

i could see that aswell

[hollow rune]

He probably wanted it because he doesn’t want the world government to have it or because it has a secret we don’t know about

[brazen finch]

I read a theory that when it is awakened it can turn people to stone by seeing something they like(Luffy and meat for example) you know kind of giving the ability to objects

[dusky bolt]

This is a very popular theory and in my opinion its most likely to happen,

The one piece will destroy the red line. This has many reasons to it. Firstly, if it destroys the red line many of the straw hats dreams will come true. Nami wants to make a map/chart of the world which would be easier if the red line didnt exist. Luffy wants to be the most free person in the world. If the red line was not there, he would be able to roam around the world very freely. Destruction of the red line means all the seas (North, South, East and West blue) would meet each other forming the all blue, what Sanji dreams of finding. Secondly, in fishman island, Sharley predicted that Luffy destroys the fishman island. Fishman island, being directly underneath the red line would be destroyed if the red line was also destroyed. This could also happen after all the fishmen move to the real, upper world and make a place to stay there as this was otohimes dream and would go well in hand with the story. Thirdly, if red line was destroyed, it would also lead to the destruction of Marie Geois, which is situated above the red line. This would lead to the end of the reign of the Celestial Dragons who are despised all over the world. This may also lead to the end of the WG.
What do you guys think?

[versed peak]

i think that you're right

it does make sense

[devout lagoon]

If boa kicks someone, they turn to stone. Maybe if he sucks then in with Yami yami, he can punch them and make them stone

[hollow brook]

To your arguments:

1. The redline been gone doesnt matter for nami. Red Line is such an small part compared to all the parts of the world Nami hasnt visited. Nami's dream is the last one to finish since she hasn't visited North, South and West Blue, while she also hasn't traveld to each island on the grandline and the calm belt. So with this in mind, either way her dream is to draw a map of the world she travels (making red line gone unimportant) or of the real whole world (then redline is just insignificant).
2. Redline isn't stoping luffy from being free. Since he left windmill village (and in the recaps later on) we see luffy already acting as free as he can. Redline isn't interfering with this. he already travels the world freely.
3. Redline being gone wouldn't directly mean that the all blue gets formed. The grandline is surrounded by the calm belt. So with redline being destroyed would the calm belt extend? what would happen to the grandline, if the middle part is just gone and last but not least: Rivers Mountain already is the place where all Blue's come together. If the OP world is a sphere like earth, then would there be 2 all Blues? One where Rivers Mountain is and one at the end of the first half of the grand line?
4. I can't see any other way how luffy could destroy fishmen island for now so it seems like a valid point. Maybe Imu threatens Luffy with destorying fishmen island but Luffy knows all fishmen already left the island?
5. Yeah Marie Goise would be destroyed, but there are way more kingdoms on the redline then Marie Goise. so it would be an massacre. So if this would happen then it's not comming from luffy. And I also doubt that just bc marie goise is destroyed that ppl would just stop fearing the celestial dragons. It defnetly needs some sort of clash between the Revolution Army and the WG.

That all being said, I also don't know of another way how these events could take place or what the outcome could be.

[potent lynx]

Not only do I think this is probably happening but uniting the world into one giant ocean that you’re free to explore unimpeded (or to phrase it differently, taking the four split parts of the world and combining them into one piece) does sound like it could fit the bill for luffy’s dream

[cinder pebble]

maybe cuz only the reincarnation of joyboy (aka luffy) can wield it and he knew he had to wait for 20 more years for that reincarnation to come?

[gilded glade]

hmm...

[polar thistle]

dont remember where i read this, but someone said in cross guild, Crocodile is the wealth, Buggy is the fame, and Mihawk is the power. so basically, buggy for pirate king is confirmed

[karmic stream]

S-Snake tho...

[frank chasm]

In the latest chapter on the last panel, it can be seen that Sabo (alive and wel) is talking to Dragon and Ivanko about a certain situation at Marie Geoise, the holy place ig, that we dont know… yet. i’ll add the manga panel on this post but the dyanmic between this panel and chapter 907 where shanks talks with the 5 elders makes me assume they are both talking about the same situation. In 907 shanks comes forth with the 5 elders and talks to them about “ a certain pirate”
Now, we all speculate this could be luffy or blackbeard or any other major plot character (most likely luffy because of how fast his reputation is growing) and i think shanks is trying to hold back luffy using what he has access to which is the 5 elders. Saint Jay Garcia arrives to egghead island probably because of the new lead with luffy and as we know all may know it cannot just be because of Vegapunk. I think what sabo is referring to when he says its a serious situation could possibly be that shanks met up with the 5 elders, including Saint Jay Garcia who was sent to egghead to take care of luffy. Imu also destroyed Luluasia where sabo was and i also think this because he was trying to silence sabo so the information doesnt get to the revolutionary army.
Conclusion? Shanks is secretly trying to get rid of luffy with the help of the 5 elders and Imu also most likely because of the reincarnation of Joyboy through the Sun God Nika model fruit. Let me know what u guys think!

[iron current]

they dont necessarily talk about the same situation, what Sabo wants to talk about is what happened at the Reverie, how did Cobra die aso. That Shanks meeting most likely happened before any of the Reverie stuff.
And no, Lulusia didnt get destroyed because Sabo was close to it, that was by pure coincidence as one of the Five Elders said.
Im also not convinced at all that Shanks is or wants to work against Luffy.

[frank chasm]

just a theory thanks for correcting me. I kinda thought of it half asleep but it made sense to me because they all KINDA connect in some way

[iron current]

its a fine theory and maybe you are right, maybe Shanks is working against Luffy but i dont believe it really. I think Shanks was waiting for Luffy to awaken. but some of the stuff doesnt really work.

[bold sequoia]

It will be will of D with shanks as his captain was gol D roger

[polar thistle]

as much as i want shanks to betray luffy for that juicy fight, he says he bet on the new era a few too many times for it to work for mr

[loud wyvern]

Spoilers for Movie Stampede - I've had the thought several months ago that Oda snuck some foreshadowing in the One Piece Stampede (He was a creative supervisor for the film).

In the race to get Roger's Treasure (revealed to be a log pose to Laugh Tale) - who between all of the pirates involved managed to get the treasure first?

Buggy.

Now the films aren't cannon, but Stampede was the first reveal of the island's name being Laugh Tale. Did he (Oda as creative supervisor) specifically tell them (the film makers) to make sure Buggy got the treasure first? They'd have a convenient script excuse to say "Oh, well Buggy is one of the few people who actually know the name of Laugh Tale in order to show us why the log pose is important, so he needs to get it first for the audience's sake." But sneaky sneaky Oda was really using it to foreshadow events in the main story.

Add to the fact that Buggy wasn't actually meant to be there to participate in the treasure race, in the same way that he doesn't actually seek out fame and glory as a pirate, yet above all the more skilled and dangerous pirates involved he still got his hands on the treasure first and then REJECTED it once realising what it is. I can totally see Buggy finding the One Piece, realising what it is, and going "Oh No! I don't want anything to do with this!".

It just stood out in the latest chapter when he mentioned that "We only need to beat them to it". It's not about being the strongest/most deserving. It's about being the first to get there.

[lost trellis]

dude im passing away, this is such a good theory

[steady prism]

@valid coral if there’s no in-story evidence/reasoning to support it, then it isn’t appropriate for this channel. Theories in this channel must have a good amount of evidence/reasoning to support it. Ideas that are in the realm of speculations are best debated in #manga or #manga-serious

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[quiet crest]

I have a serious theory that despite killing whitebeard blackbeard has the same dream as him

In jaya he says,“The age of pirate dreams is over?! People’s dreams don’t ever end!! It isn’t easy to be great!! Let them laugh! If you’re aiming for the top, you don’t always need your fists to show your might!!”

[devout lagoon]

Whitebeard’s dream was to have a family

[quiet crest]

It indicates his dream is to form a crew of pirates that only uses devil fruits and is an obsession he had before joining the Whitebeard crew.Hence why all the actions he has taken so far in the series(Targeting Luffy,Ace, Absalom and co and Law)

[hollow brook]

I think the plot BB delivered in the jaya arc underlines the fact that he's also an D. and posses strong willpower. As for his dream I think it isnt much known about BB's persona (ofc thats why uts a theroy, I know). It could also be that he has the same dream that ace got. To leave his own mark in the history and get recognition. Also BB didn't target ace. Ace just found BB before he could make his move against luffy. The fact hat he's gathering all these DF for his crew members probably is for making his crew stronger, so he can split his forces on certain tasks instead of being present everywhere himself.

[quiet crest]

The issue is I don't think he's just collecting it for his crew but is an obsession that he has had before joining the Whitebeard pirates as it was more likely for him to find the dark dark fruit with them and when it was found he went as far as to kill thatch.

[hollow brook]

I think since he read about the Dark dark fruit in the book of DF he also new what effects he would gain. I mean he had his eyes on this fruit especialy because it would grant him the ability to negate DF powers and this would enable him to stand against whitebeard.

[quiet crest]

what about whitebeard's fruit

[hollow brook]

wdym?

also: did BB knew the fruit hasn't been eaten by someone? did he just took a gamble? could have been possible that someone already ate the fruit and he would waste his time with waiting for it to appear

[quiet crest]

you said the motivation for him taking the dark dark fruit was because he had eyes on it.Why would he take whitebeard's fruit and risk the possibility of killing himself by consuming two df?

[hollow brook]

Depends on the fact, if BB knew that he was able to eat / use multiple DF. And since I think that it is not known what makes him able to use multiple DF I cant argue about him consuming WB's fruit randomly or by choice but it's certainly clear that WB's DF is suited for bringing chaos to the battlefield and also other perks that suit BB (if he needs to retreat) so I think that's why he picked it

[weary aurora]

hi, new here, wanna know ur thoughts on this theory...
USOPP's CONQUEROR HAKI (but not armament)
as you know, u have to have a kings ambition to have this, Luffy wants to be king of pirates, Zoro wants to be the strongest swordman, many characters we dont know their dreams but we can kind of asume they want a similar goal, like kaido, big mom, shanks, roger, kid, all wanted to be King of pirates, or find the one piece, goals of a warrior... and what was usopp's dreams? be a strong warrior of the sea with 8000 followers (spoiler, at the end of one piece usopp will have his own pirate crew of 8000 people) i mean, thats very ambitious, and a warrior's goal, unlike sanji, that he is aint a warrior, but a chef, he wants the all blue, nami make a map, chopper know all about medicine, franky build a ship that can travel all around the world, brook reunite with laboon, robin wants to know about the lost century, jimbe actualy idk, free the fishmen? race equality? well, the point is, those aint A WARRIORS DREAM, but usopp dude, daaamn, he is gonna manifest is Haoshoku at some point, maybe not during his strawhat journey but later when he has is own crew, like in the epilogue

[severe egret]

Very small theory and I’m posting it here because they’re ain’t a anime theories (yes I’m caught up with Manga) but I’m rewatching the newest episode and I just got to the part where we zoro complaining that Kubin’s made a promise to him yesterday and I thought what if kuina isn’t dead and she faked her death so zoro can grow stronger?

[bronze thorn]

The theory that the poles of the One Piece world have been switched and that the Pirate King will be responsible for returning them to their rightful positions. This theory is based on a number of hints and clues scattered throughout the series.

One of the primary pieces of evidence for this theory is the existence of the Florian Triangle, a mysterious region of the One Piece world where ships and people are said to disappear without a trace. It is suggested that this region is located near the magnetic South Pole, and that the strange phenomena within it are caused by the magnetic field being disrupted by the poles being switched.

Another clue is the presence of the Reverse Mountain, a massive mountain that acts as the entrance to the Grand Line. It is said that the currents in the Grand Line flow in reverse, with the West Blue being located to the east and the East Blue to the west. This is suggested to be a result of the poles being switched.

Furthermore, there are a number of characters in the series who possess abilities related to magnetism and the manipulation of the earth's magnetic field. These characters, such as Kaido and Apoo, are often associated with the themes of polarity and reversal, further fueling speculation that the poles of the One Piece world have been switched.

Finally, it is suggested that the Pirate King will be responsible for returning the poles to their rightful positions, potentially through the discovery of One Piece or some other means. This act is said to have far-reaching consequences, potentially even leading to a reversal of the current order of the world.

Also when the world will be returned how it was the calm belt will disappear and the seas will reunite and they will make "THE ALL BLUE" which is Sanji's dream.

[ashen surge]

One of the primary pieces of evidence for this theory is the existence of the Florian Triangle, a mysterious region of the One Piece world where ships and people are said to disappear without a trace. It is suggested that this region is located near the magnetic South Pole, and that the strange phenomena within it are caused by the magnetic field being disrupted by the poles being switched.

Florian Triangle is between W7 and Sabaody Archipelago

[bronze thorn]

Water levels have risen, which is most likely the cause of W7 being about to drown. It's unclear what % level the water has risen to but it's probably gotten a bit too high

[ashen surge]

What

[bronze thorn]

when the world rotated water levels have risen

[ashen surge]

I don't understand, you were talking about the theoretical location of Florian Triangle being located near either of the poles but we know its exact location

[bronze thorn]

One of the main reasons why the Florian Triangle is believed to be significant in One Piece lore is its location. It is said to be located near the magnetic South Pole of the One Piece world. This has led many fans to speculate that the Triangle's strange phenomena are caused by a disruption in the earth's magnetic field, which is in turn caused by a switch in the magnetic poles.

In real life, the magnetic poles of the Earth are constantly shifting and changing, and it is believed that at certain points in history, the poles have even switched places completely. If this were to happen in the world of One Piece, it could have far-reaching consequences, including changes to the climate, the geography of the world, and even the behavior of the sea itself.

I'm talking about the magnetic pole not the geographic

[ashen surge]

"The Florian Triangle is a stretch of sea that must be sailed through to travel from Water 7 to Fish-Man Island. "

The location of the Florian Triangle is a known fact. Most likely the reason for people disappearing was partially because of Gecko Moria's shenanigans. There are no "strange phenomenas" present in florian triangle. It's only a sea of thick fog - nothing extraordinary in the context of Grand Line weather effects - crews disappearing and weird huge monsters.

[bronze thorn]

it's location is known but i'm talking abt its location to the south pole

[ashen surge]

Grand Line is a very narrow strip of the whole world and so how would the south pole be stationed there? And to add to that, Florian Triangle is close to redline so it's around the equator

[radiant crown]

I don't think you understand what he's saying, a physical south pole and magnetic south pole are two different things

[ashen surge]

But why would the magnetic south pole be at the equator? And even still, there are other explanations for Florian Triangle's happenings.

[bronze thorn]

THE WORLD HAS ROTATED

[cunning rune]

the destruction of Marie geois isn't exactly a good idea because

1. considering the architecture might give some clues about the void century and theoretically the giant strawhat is also placed inside mg
2. as mg is situated at an easy place for anyone to observe (and not access) they would have an idea of where the celestial dragons are, so with the disappearance of mg, who knows where they might secretly meet again

[paper galleon]

they going to the moon where the One Piece is

[pure raven]

Two theories, i think gold d rodger had a fruit. Because did you notice how the only other 2 members on crew that got sick. Were buggy and the girl who were confirmed devil fruit users. I think if you have a devil fruit you get sick at laughtale. Reason why shanks forbids anyone on his crew to eat one and said its time to go claim the one piece. Because he knows that it's only easy for non devil fruit users to claim it.

[vale aspen]

Then why did Shanks constantly offer for Marco to join his crew if he ate the Tori Tori no Mi: Model Phoenix?

[pure raven]

Might be just to get stronger and it was after his crew was already where its at

[pure raven]

Also if you like somone enough lol like if white beard makes you his right hand man might be a good crew member just to have for great war

[vale aspen]

I think it's more plausible that instead of being a Devil Fruit eater, only an individual who harbors the Will of D can have access to laugh tale.

[pure raven]

Just odd only 3 people got sick from it on crew were 2 devil fruit users and rodger

[vale aspen]

I also think that the reason why Shanks is now going for the One Piece, is because he fulfilled the last mission that Roger gave him before he passed. That one scene in the manga where Shanks is holding on to Roger's jacket and crying.

[pure raven]

Also I think buggy might have will of d 😈 lol

[paper galleon]

to negate his OP mythical zoan?

[paper galleon]

Buggy D. Clown

[vale aspen]

My theory goes as this: Roger gave 4 tasks to his crewmates in order to prepare for Joyboy's return, which they learned from going to Laugh Tale. Crocus went back to his old post to prepare for guiding Joyboy through Paradise, Rayleigh was stationed on Sabaody Archipelago to train Joyboy in order to be strong enough to thrive in the New World, Shanks was given the task to find the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika and find the one who was meant to eat the fruit. The last crew member? Scopper Gaban's last task was to guard the final Road Poneglyph from Fish-Man Island in order to gatekeep any person who would find 3 Road Poneglyph rubbings that was not JoyBoy. So I think that the Man with the Burn Scar is Scopper Gaban. It makes sense based on what tasks Roger gave his crewmates in order to prepare for Joyboy's return. Since it was never confirmed, I think after the Roger Pirates disbanded, he ate a Devil Fruit that allows him to create whirlpools, or it could be another fruit entirely that acts on sea water, like the Wind Logia.

[bronze thorn]

Joyboy alr went to laughtale

[paper galleon]

but he hasn't finished all of his business and in order for joyboy 2.0 to finish all the stuff he was supposed to joyboy 2.0 has to go to laughtale

like with zou for example

[vale aspen]

Joyboy 1 failed his task of raising Noah to the surface, BECAUSE of the Twenty Kingdoms attacking the Ancient Kingdom.

[paper galleon]

that's what I mean there has to be another joyboy to finish what the first one started but the new joyboy doesn't know what to do until he gets to Laugh Tale that's why Roger had people in place to guide him to Laugh Tale

[vale aspen]

That's why Roger was "too early". The reason was because Shirahoshi wasn't born yet, and the Mermaid Princess and Joyboy had to be the one to raise Noah to the surface with all the Fish-Men.

[paper galleon]

right Roger came before all three weapons were ready

[vale aspen]

Adding to the 3 weapons: I know why Imu was interested in Vivi during Levely Arc. The 3 Princesses are the one's that inherit the power of activating the ancient weapons. Shirahoshi can activate Poseidon, Vivi can activate Uranus, and Hiyori can activate Pluton. This is also why Cobra was assassinated during the Levely because of the assassinator's purpose of getting access to Uranus.

[vale aspen]

Remember, that Alabasta was the only kingdom that had their original royal family to stay in the homeland, instead of moving to Mariejois. This means that secretly, the Nefertari family is loyal to the Ancient Kingdom and Joyboy instead of the World Government. It only makes sense that Vivi can awaken and manifest the power of Uranus.

[paper galleon]

oh yeah I forgot that they didn't go to Mariejois and all of that

[vale aspen]

That's why Imu was interested in Vivi!

[paper galleon]

okay yeah that makes a lot more sense because Imu knows the Nefertari support the Ancient Kingdom and the fact she awakened Uranus would be really bad for Imu because she does not have any control over them because joyboy and ancient kingdom = freedom

[vale aspen]

Also, how did Imu did not know of the existence of Hiyori, who is the princess that can awaken Pluton? Wano is a closed off country, and Kozuki Oden's exploits never had the information of his family. Kaido and Orochi knew but they wouldn't think that information was important to the World Government. So I think that Sukiyaki will teach the ancient language to Momonosuke and Hiyori, and the Ancient Language will be used to activate Pluton in Old Wano.

[vale aspen]

Also ultimate theory that I think is plausible: Joyboy is the undisputed King of the Ancient Kingdom. He was the one that ruled during the Void Century, and his power was so great that the Twenty Kingdoms allied against him to destroy him.

[paper galleon]

yeah Pluton flying under Imu's radar is actually insane also do you think CP9 knew about the significance of pluton or were just assigned to get the blueprints because Franky didn't know about the significance but I can safely assume Tom knew since he told them to not destroy them unless absolutely necessary

[paper galleon]

also joyboy being the king of freedom makes a lot of sense to me and the fact that the 20 kingdoms had to align in order to destroy him and gain influence is also a very plausible theory that would play out perfectly I'm just confused as to where Imu would fight into that

[vale aspen]

The World Government and CP9 only knew that Pluton's blueprints were still in existence being passed down by the master carpenters to their pupils through the generations. It could be plausible that they knew that Pluton was in Wano, but I'm not really sure. It would've made more sense for the 3 admirals, vice-admirals and seven warlords of the sea to invade Wano to activate Pluton if they did know. So I can only assume the WG and 5 elders knew about the Blueprints, but not the location.

[paper galleon]

I think that they probably would not have invaded Wano because it would destroy people's hope for it as Wano is not associated with the World government also another thing is that One Piece's plot is just luffy the liberator because I think almsot every single arc is luffy showing up and fighting the big bad guy who is controlling an island and its really cool how Oda put that into the plot

[vale aspen]

Let me blow your mind: The Will of D is actually the Ancient Kingdom's Royal Family with Joyboy as it's undisputed King. Blackbeard is none other than Rocks D. Xebec's son, who embodies the absolute freedom of dreams, and seeks not only to become a part of the Levely, but to become king of the world just like his father. Imu represents the faction within the royal family that feared the evolution of the Ancient Kingdom's ideals and technology, so his ancestors overthrew Joyboy and established a coalition to take control of the world from Joyboy and his lineal descendants.

[paper galleon]

bro istg if this shows up in the manga im living at your house

[vale aspen]

What does the D stand for? It's not a letter, but a pictogram. If you turn it on it's side, it looks like the sun rising from the horizon. What does the sun rising mean? The Dawn of the World. Who is the King of the Ds? Joyboy. It all adds up, the Will of D are those that embody the Ancient Kingdom's ideals, and who descend from the ancient royal bloodline. That's what Roger said when "Even if you extinguish his bloodline, there is no way that their flame ever blows out." and when Whitebeard remarked that Teach was not the one that Roger was waiting for. The one he was waiting for would be the person who carries all the decades of history on his back, and will challenge the whole world to a fight. So in the end during Whitebeard and Roger's last discussion, Roger never disclosed the location of Laugh Tale to Whitebeard, but he told him of the true history of the Void Century, the Will of D, and the Ancient Weapons. That's why Whitebeard respected Luffy to call him "Straw Hat Luffy". Remember, he never called Akainu by his name, but "Magma-brat". Whitebeard knew that Luffy was Joyboy, and because of that, he ended the era, and died knowing that the world would be coming to it's dawn.

[paper galleon]

I don’t even need read one piece ever again with you around careful man don’t spoil chapters Oda hasn’t written yet

Do you time travel?

You’ve been typing for so long bruh you gonna just wrote the whole one piece plot out for me in your next message

I think we can safely delete this channel and just have you

[vale aspen]

yes. hehehe. I learn only what I want to learn about the greatest piece of fiction I've ever had the pleasure of using my senses to experience. But let give you something even greater. Do you know the significance of Mariejois and Fish-Man island? Let me tell you. 900 years ago, during the beginning of the Void Century, Joyboy planted the legendary Sunlight Tree Eve in the center of the world, using the power of the Hito-Hito no Mi: Model Nika. This tree is also known as the Eve Fruit Tree because the tree could manifest mystical fruits that would grant endless laughs, and supernatural powers to those who consumed them, embodying the freedom of man. During the end of the Void Century, Joyboy was defeated and his influence and legacy was expunged by the government. After they destroyed the Ancient Kingdom, they decided to make sure that no one would EVER have access to this legendary tree, and keep it's power secret to use it for the good and betterment of society. They used the power of the Hito-Hito no Mi: Model [Earth God] fruit to enact a 10,000M continent around the Ancient Kingdom, and the Sunlight Tree Eve which is known as the Red Line. Mariejois was then constructed on the Red Line, right on top of the tree to safeguard it's summit and to prevent unauthorized access to the Ancient Kingdom and the Eve Tree. The Lunarians who eventually came to live on the Red Line were also destroyed for this reason. This is also why in Pangaea Castle, during the Levely Arc with Imu, you could see a garden room with lot's of sunlight. This is due to the tree's influence, meaning that Fish-Man Island and Mariejois live in conjuction with each other in the middle of the world. During the final battle, which will be between Imu - Luffy - Blackbeard, the Ancient Weapons will be used to destroy the Red Line, the Ancient Kingdom, and Fish-Man Island at the same time. Poseidon will then use her power to bring Noah to the surface in conjuction with Joyboy using the Hito-Hito No Mi: model Nika and the fish-men will finally live on the surface, fulfilling Otohime's dream. After the destruction of the Red Line, the WG, and the Ancient Kingdom, finally all races will exist with one another and the All Blue will finally be revealed at the end, fulfilling Sanji's dream.

[paper galleon]

Yeah one piece is old news to this guy also all of this makes perfect sense but how did you sing out about the tree

[vale aspen]

It just makes sense right? How could Fish-Man Island have sunlight 10,000M below the surface of the ocean? How can Mariejois be perfectly sunny all the time at 10,000M above the surface? The only plausible explanation is that the Sunlight Tree Eve is the culprit. When you figure that out, you also figure out that the Tree is the center of the world, and is a necessary component for the ancient prophecy to be fulfilled with all Fish-Men being sent to live in the surface. In ancient times, the Fish-Men lived in harmony with all races of earth and they were subjected to Fish-Man Island. This also means that the Eve Tree is none other than the Devil Fruit tree. How could Celestial Dragons so easily get access to Devil Fruit's to feed, for example, Hancock and her siblings? Through the direct influence of the spawned fruit of the Eve Tree, with the Five Elders and Imu's permission.

[paper galleon]

You would get a 6 on a One Piece AP Exam

[vale aspen]

Do you want to know what One Piece is? The One Piece is none other than the Ancient Kingdom that exists within the Red Line. The Rio Poneglyph also exists within the Ancient Kingdom, so then Robin's dream will be fulfilled. Let me shatter your mind even more: The World Government is none other than the Ancient Kingdom, but 900 years in the future. They never went away, they only safeguarded the preservation of the evolution of men through the destruction of the old ideals of freedom and progress through unparalleled technological prowess. My theory is supported by the fact that the Ancient Robot in Egghead awoke 200 years ago and emerged from the Red Line and attacked Mariejois, fulfilling it's mission of protecting the Ancient Royal family. How did it get activated? 200 Years ago is when Fish-Man Island finally participated in the Levely, and at that time, the current incarnation of Poseidon was there, and somehow unconsciously used the Ancient Language to summon the Robot, as it's the only language that would activate it.

[vale aspen]

What did Roger do when he reached Laugh Tale for the first time? He laughed, as he marveled about the incredible ancient technology that surrounded all of the Roger Pirates. The tale of freedom of expression, and pure, unadulterated dreams. They read the Poneglyphs within the Ancient Kingdom and understood the true history. Oden knew precisely when the Worst Generation would arrive in Wano and defeat Kaido, as it was prophesized in the Ancient Kingdom. After finding all of this out, I cried. Oda is a true genius, unparalleled with talent, story-crafting and world building.

[paper galleon]

Yeah I’m kinda just melting now that one piece is over

[vale aspen]

Greatest story ever told man.

[main flower]

Didn't oda say in an SBS that the one piece is something you could physically hold? And I don't think that someone could hold a ancient kingdom

[vale aspen]

Then the only plausible theory is that Laugh Tale is the Ancient Kingdom and that the One Piece is the ancient energy source that was used to power the ancient robot, and used to cut energy requirements to 0. This would also fulfill Vegapunks dream of giving Punk Records to the world and finally understanding the ancient energy source of the Void Century.

[modest skiff]

No, they said its a tangible object and not some kinda "friends we made along the way" thing

[vale aspen]

Then my theory is plausible in 2 ways, one being that the Ancient Kingdom is One Piece or that the energy source used by the Ancient Kingdom is One Piece, but I think the former makes more sense in my eyes because it would explain Roger’s reaction to Laugh Tale and the One Piece.

[sour apex]

None

[paper galleon]

What?

[craggy cradle]

Why would he find it so funny

[night crag]

One Piece is the Weapon of Dreams - https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vT2WIZMl-oF18zWpKq8ur8BmtOdInE4CfBOryXQZBntGm8uVIHKb7m91bK4wzVfCVqwQr5_qKwmRGF9/pub

[vale aspen]

Roger would Laugh, because after reconquering the Grand Line, seeing everything that they did to find the Poneglyphs from Zou, Wano, Big Mom, and Fish Man Island and finally discovering the last island after taking Oden with him to the final journey, he would laugh simply because he had discovered the catalyst to his true dream, which is the same as Luffy's. His journey, and end of his life culminated with that experience, and the legendary legacy that Joyboy left behind left him in tears.

[vale aspen]

Wait, this theory finally ties the strings together. This finally explains in my earlier theory on how 900 years ago Joyboy planted the legendary Sunlight Tree Eve using Gear 5 in Conjunction with the One Piece. I am convinced that the One Piece is the Weapon of Dreams. That means Roger laughed because he was able to observe the Ancient Kingdom as well as this amazing treasure, but he knew he was too early as he did not have the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika to use in sync with the One Piece.

[digital epoch]

I think he laughed because whatever it is likely looks extremely goofy

I mean, if the theory about having to have the Nika fruit in order to use the One Piece are true, imagine some kind of crazy-looking device/weapon/equipment you would have to be some kind of crazy cartoon man to use properly!

[night crag]

Now that I think more on it, The One Piece could include everything, even all The power of all devil fruit in The world in one item. That include every Logia, Paramecia and Zoan fruit into One.

[karmic stream]

Adam Fruit and the Eve Tree

[night crag]

If the One Piece would turn Luffy into a Rainbow, I wonder what could be the thing that does it and the more I think and after watch film Red also, It could be a song or melody recorded in some sort of recording device, Like an ultimate Golden Tone Dial that Brook used.

[night crag]

Oh my God it just struck me, the white wings that Skypieans have. In Super Mario 64 when the Star theme plays Mario literally gets white wings and is surrounded by rainbows. One Piece itself could give Luffy wings to fly with.

[quasi sapphire]

What if.... In the newest manga chapters we will see yamato join the straw hats because she is SO close to becoming a straw hat because she knows ace wel enough and also might want to become the strongest swordsman (dam imagine SANJI ZORO AND YAMATO ARGUING WHOS THE 2ND STRONGEST)

what if... neptune actually did the flood

[fathom matrix]

I bet there was never any gold/wealth or riches at Laughtale

BUT Roger deposited all his treasure there

There are probably some items, gadgets, tools and such from the VC, but roger put monetary wealth and jewels there

[night crag]

Hmm I do think the Elbaf Arc is gonna be a very significant arc to what the final One Piece treasure will be as Joy Boy 800 years ago was from Elbaf. Something that would be really cool is if it would be some kind of Golden viking Helmet with Wings, inspired from the Asterix and Obelisk series. Luffy also wears a helmet in Dressrosa so that could work.

[steady prism]

Hey guys, just a friendly reminder that shorter thoughts/ideas are better discussed in #manga-serious

[fathom matrix]

Theory

Buggy and Luffy end up becoming the pirate kings

As ridiculous as it sounds, what if that's the case?

Buggy and Luffy both rise to the top in the most ridiculous and most extreme fast of ways, Luffy does so via sherr force, Buggy by sheer luck

Buggy and Luffy are both admired and loved by people around them and they have a giant array of support and enemies.

What if Luffy gets what the one piece is, and when Buggy gets there, Luffy (to nami's dismay) lets Buggy have all of Roger's treasure, his captain's treasure, and when they find out Buggy has the treasure and Luffy has the one piece, people see them both as the pirate kings.

This works in Buggy's favous as Crocodile and Mihawk won't only not kill him, but they're surprised it works and they "let him off the hook"

Because they split the rewards and due to both their reputations, people accept the fact there's 2 pirate kings

[grand harbor]

Y’all see the theory that Tsuru is Nami’s grandmother, at least through the found family style of family

It basis off that Garp, Sengoku and Tsuru are their own friend group within the marines, and Luffy is Garps grandson, Sengoku is Laws because he trained Corazon and was like a father to him, like how Corazon was like a father to Law, so maybe Tsuru trained Bellemere when she was a Marine

[fallow bobcat]

I don't think Momo will be his apprentice only because Luffy is younger than him

[steady prism]

@ember oriole could you please elaborate and provide evidence/reasoning for these ideas? Why would BM and Kaido join BB given they have their own crews and/or may harbor animosity towards BB (e.g. BB's rampage at WCI while BM was gone)? Why would Momo abandon his post as shogun? It's a cool idea in isolation but putting it into context with where the story is right now, I'd be interested to hear the justification for it.

Otherwise, if you were just trying to just share a thought, #manga would be a better place for that. Edit: Feel free to repost with the appropriate details or please go to the other manga channel.

[lunar talon]

❌DISPROVEN BY CHAPTER 1089❌

Hello, I have a theory about the Man Marked with Flames/Burn Scar.

Firstly, I want to take notice about the Straw Hats' crew's dreams. Narratively speaking, the story would flow better if the crew's dream would be achieved before Luffy's dream, slowly, one by one. So we would see them achieve their dreams maybe right before or just after Laugh Tale. Such as Zoro defeating Mihawk, Usopp becoming a Brave Warrior of the Sea, Franky's Ship Around the World, etc.

This is where Brook comes in. To me, it doesn't sit right that Brook's dream would be achieved until after the events of Laugh Tale/Mariejoa/Climax. Seeing how most of the crew's (and maybe Luffy's dream) would be completed before said events. Brook's Dream is to reunite with Laboon, but that would only be obtainable until AFTER they cross the Red Line. A huge theory about the Red Line being destroyed and Sanji's, Franky's, and Brook's dream would be fufilled at the same time makes sense, but I have a few things to support my theory below.

A lot of people have theorized that it could be Dragon/Sabo/Davy Jones/Urogue/Saul/etc. But what I think is:

Crocus is the man Marked By Flames. His ship is none other than Laboon, that stated in chapter 1081, is an "All black ship" that doesn't let people get too close and causes vortexes/whirlpools. Crocus also has a scar on his left arm, never specified if it was from a burn or not. You can see it in the Cover Page in 631, which also coincidentally, shows him sharing a drink with someone unidentified. I believe this someone was that person in possession of the last Poneglyph, and needed Crocus to lend him some help, i.e. Laboon. It could be Shiki, or Scopper. Who knows.

But I believe introducing Crocus this far into the story would be ideal to close out Brook's dream around the same time most of the Straw Hat's dreams would be fulfilled.

Let me know what you guys think

❌DISPROVEN BY CHAPTER 1089❌

[ebon idol]

That’s a really interesting thought that I would love to see in the manga. I think it’s brilliant but could you remind me about the whirlpools for laboon?

[lunar talon]

Nothing too much to go off of, but I just think it wouldn't be too difficult for a whale of Laboon's size to create whirlpools, and that what Laffite said in 1081 about "maybe it's a DF power" could be a red herring

[ebon idol]

Oh agree with you that it sounds like a red herring. I was thinking some sort of fishman karate but it being laboon could also work. I thought maybe you knew something about laboon that could work towards the theory

[unkempt yew]

the straw hat devil fruits
chopper --> hito hito no mi (hi = 1, to= 10)
robin --> hana hana no mi (ha = 8, na = 7)
brook --> yomi homi no mi (yo = 4, mi = 3)
Luffy --> gomu gomu no mi (go = 5 mu = 6)
** we have 2 and 9 missing**
2 in japanese is ni
9 in japanese is ku or kyu

niku niku no mi
its representing the new member of straw hat pirates
maybe kuma will die and someone will take his fruit and joins the straw hat pirates

we just know that a niku niku no mi fruit user will join

[pure raven]

Momo is a 28 year old shogun With a strong fruit, no way he'll ever be a apprentice

[craggy lagoon]

I can see Issho/Fujitora being from Wano, but that's not official right?

[balmy willow]

A quick amendment to existing theories I've been thinking about.
I want to think the X on Luffy's chest is more than a mark from Akainu or a visual reminder that he had to get stronger but maybe a supporting argument for BB taking people's hearts to get their DF. That makes three Prominent X marks in the series. Luffy, Reverse Mountain and the Ponegllyph arrangement for Laugh Tale. Luffy's heartbeat as Nika were the drums of liberation and it is highly likely the Gomu needs to be brought to Laugh Tale. Two treasures, two Xs.
If you want to take the themes further then you could say freedom is meant to be treasured or is more valuable than that.
Dreams lead to adventure leads to romance (Dawn) leads to the heart.
This makes BB a great folly. He in a way grants liberation too. His crew are free spirited and he encourages their own goals to convince even Kuzan to join him. People's dreams never die but BB is certainly oppressing them for his own gain. This starts to become easy to over think though. I just want to connect dots between important people.
(Just thought maybe Reverse Mountain being opposite Mariejois foreshadowed the hidden treasure there)

There are other Xs as well but narratively they aren't related to anything important so I don't believe they would imply anything such as X Drake.

[analog sun]

Love the idea that these Xs relate to the treasure map trope, it works very well with the heart and red line as you mention!
What do you think of the crossbones on the flags?

[balmy willow]

For the most part the Jolly Rogers have a different character or narrative purpose. Not all of them have crosses or even skulls either. Just more world building for a great pirate age that (Jolly) Roger ushered in and not directly tied with the idea of treasure

[analog sun]

Fair enough, but consider the one in the O of the One Piece title. Without the skull, the O with the bones looks like the planet itself with the red line. I wonder if there's something that might tie this known pirate age crossbones and skull cliche with this "X marks the spot" theory.

I had a recent theory trying to do something similar with other pirate tropes, with one of the conclusions being that D can be the shape of an eye patch

[balmy willow]

A lot of imagery can line up when talking about these kinds of ironic connections like I say it's easy to overthink it

[analog sun]

We're discussing a theory about an x-shaped scar on Luffy's chest symbolizing the "x marks the spot" of the One Piece, so overthinking connections was already the name of the game here

[steady prism]

!theories @dapper cobalt stating the obvious isn't a theory. We've already seen that he's alive during the Reverie arc. In the future, please use #manga for shorter comments like that

@quasi sapphire this isn't the channel for short "what if" ideas. I do not recall a Finnegan mentioned in the story, also the only devil fruit that could make people younger is from Film Z and thus isn't really cannon. Probably best to take that to #manga

@unkempt yew please don't repost the same theory over. You're welcome to build on it and/or reference the original one.

Using goroawase to argue that a Nikyu Nikyu no mi user will join the SHs is an interesting idea, but could you please elaborate and provide in-story evidence/reasoning on how this could happen? How does Kuma die? Who do you think will inherit the devil fruit? How does his fruit make its way to Egghead (or to the individual you believe will carry that ability)? How/Why/When will that individual join the SHs?

This channel's intended for longer theories like the ones pinned, which is why I'm asking these questions to get a better idea on what you think this particular pattern means. There are plenty of patterns people have found in the story, but most of them don't come to fruition because it takes too much headcannon to make it fit into the current story.

If you're willing to provide additional details please do, I'd be happy to read it and better understand your perspective. But if you only wanted to share this pattern to brainstorm ideas, then feel free to bring it up as-is in #manga-serious where things are less strict.

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

Could you elaborate? Do you have any in-story evidence/reasoning to support it? Edit: deleted for now since I haven’t heard a reply. Next time please use #manga

[scenic barn]

bepo 100% ate a rumble ball. It doesnt really make any sense whatsoever for chopper to develop some type of specialized drug for bepo to take, they had no on page relationship, and if chopper had been making that why wouldnt the minks in onigashima have used it. bepo definitely witnessed chopper take his rumble ball during onigashima and asked him for one to hope to gain a similar effect to monster point. thoughts?
Message #manga-serious

[ashen surge]

Chopper witnessed Sulong for the first time when escaping from WCI, then it was all hurdle for the raid so Chopper would've have the opportunity to develope the Moon Ball at the epilogue of Wano arc.

[ashen surge]

The working mechanics of Rumble Ball and Moon Ball are completely different. Rumble Ball includes a "set of instructions" if you may that you can manipulate your zoan form in more subtle ways and as we've seen, you can learn to apply those manipulations even without using Rumble Ball. My hypothesis of the Moon Ball is that it just fools the Mink brain that it is full moon.

[night crag]

"The One Piece turns Luffy into a Rainbow Man"

There are so many theories about what the One Piece could be but everytime I hear the mention of one singular item. When I look back at the series as a whole and see all the named attacks Luffy has used: Gomu Gomu no (Pistol, Rocket, Bazooka, Gatling, Rifle etc.) and also see the silhouette of Nika holding a spear and a sword got me thinking about the freedom Luffy has in his gear 5.

What if he could use every weapon imaginable all at once?

Gold Roger even said he was too early when he arrived at Laugh Tale which means that Nika fruit is a requirement to use the actual One Piece treasure.

Another thing that got me thinking is that there is another character who has used various weapons simultaneously, and that’s Baby 5 from Dressrosa. Why did Oda name her Baby 5 if not for a hint towards Gear 5?

I can see the One piece being the equivalent of Super Mario getting a Golden Star except it would boost his spirit to a level where he could literally conjure up everything he desires. It fits his character, it’s whimsical, and I could even see a scenario where Luffy’s color literally turns into a Rainbow instead of white.

The One Piece would include everything, even all the power of all devil fruits in the world in one item. That includes every Logia, Paramecia and Zoan fruit into One.

I do think the Elbaf Arc is gonna be a very significant arc to what the final One Piece treasure will be as Joy Boy 800 years ago was from Elbaf.

Something that would be really cool and fitting for the Pirate King, is a Golden Viking Helmet with Wings, inspired from the Asterix and Obelisk series (also the winged cap from Super Mario 64). Luffy also wears a helmet in Dressrosa so that could work, and also would tie in the actual Straw Hat being a symbol for the helmet. It would also explain the wings that sky people has.

[weak citrus]

luffy becoming that would definitely be cool
but the final treasure including everything is such a cliche
we all know oda is 'never let them know your next move' kind of guy
so if he made the one piece something like that then that is just lazy writing imo

[iron current]

you think kid Shanks, who was found as a baby by Roger poisoned him?

Roger found him as a baby in a chest after Godvalley supposedly

[wooden thistle]

Do u think Shanks was a celestial dragon?

[short pilot]

For some reason the leader of the God's knight looks like Shanks

[inland cobalt]

I’m not really up to date since I just started reading past the anime but couldn’t that silhouette just be the gorosei with the sword ?

[dense wyvern]

cloak prolly

[inland cobalt]

Good point plus the hilt is off

[normal sandal]

What if the Holy knight/God knight that looks like Shanks is a relative of shanks or the other half of him (either one is a clone of the other - entirely possible because the pacifistas are essentially baby clones of the seven warlords). That would explain a lot of things. His relationship with the gorousei (he might know the existence of imu or other world government secrets), why Sengoku allowed him to stop the war and left everything to him. Considering how Oda mentioned some aspects of the movie "Red" to be cannon we can assume that Roger did in fact find him floating in the ocean. Perhaps the God knight or someone related to him abandoned him in the sea in an attempt to hold the God knight shanks person as a "hostage" so the world government can abuse his powers.

[slender fulcrum]

Certainly shanks father, someone with a golden armor beneath his cape anyway, no cowboy hat etc. So its not clone of whomever. I bet they have all original design.

Shanks being an holy knight son, he got " holy blood " in his veins for those who respects the holy knights so the behavior of the Gurusei toward Shanks is explained now.

[pure raven]

wtf is this about the holy knight looking like shanks?
he doesnt, its literally just a silhouette with a sword

[opaque marsh]

Agree. It all started with spoilers stating the silhouette looks like shanks.

[pure raven]

Also are we just forgetting how carefree Oda draws silhouettes? It’s not like every dude with a sword it’s now Shanks btw

[slender fulcrum]

The shadow is not Shanks, but is made to looks like his posture.
I mean, how come Shanks could enter Marijoie and up to the Gurusei without anyone noticing or trying to stop him, and the Gurusei not even trying to hit him and seems to hold him in deep respects, despite him being a pirate ?
The only explanation is if Shanks got a Celestial Dragon lineage and his father is one of the holy knight.
The Gurusei might look at him like a turbulent child that disobeyed his father but is still a noble

[cursive agate]

Alright that, makes a hell of a lot of sense

That would also explain Shanks ungodly strength and haki, from what I've understood most strength and or haki is inherited, if shanks dad is one of the God's knights which I assume is more powerful or on the same level as an admiral, it would explain it if Shanks inherited his haki from his father.
God valley could of been the home of God's knights where Xebec brought the war, or related to the God's knights where shanks was found

[fringe veldt]

tbf the silhouette has the same collared cloak, a very similarly shaped sword, stance, and the same haircut

i wouldn’t be mad if shanks is a knight, oda just needs to write it well

[modest skiff]

General reminder

This channel is intended for in depth theories rather than predictions. For examples of the type of theories this channel is for, please see the pins.

For predictions: please use #manga #also-manga #manga-serious

[grim harness]

My theory got deleted :/

[fringe veldt]

if i were to guess the timeline:

shanks was born and/or raised in god valley, a CD strongpoint where the god’s knights resided

rocks pirates raided the island for reasons unknown, probably just for treasure or to topple the CDs

the god valley battle goes down, a young kid shanks is hidden in a chest to ensure his safety by someone close to him

shanks is raised to be a pirate with roger, but he still has some heritage with the WG and CDs, explaining why he could just get an audience with the five elders without being stopped

my theory, given everything we’ve seen about shanks’s character and relationships is that shanks wants to be a peacekeeper and mediator who keeps the status quo. perhaps he’s going to capture the one piece so nobody else can have it?

this is, of course, assuming that shanks was/is part of the god’s knights

if he isn’t, all of this is probably wrong and oda will have yet again thrown a screwball at the entire fanbase

[shell sapphire]

I think Luffy is the joy boy

Because he symbolized the joy boy for decades

[steady prism]

@shell sapphire I don’t think anyone would disagree with that sentiment, but please keep in mind that this channel’s for long theories like the ones pinned. Please use #manga or #manga-serious for shorter commentary like that

[shell sapphire]

Thank for that i new here so yea thank u tho

[manic helm]

Is it possible that if Blackbeard ate the mythical baize devil fruit that he could eat 3 devil fruits for each of his 3 souls besides the baize fruit itself?
I was thinking he was gonna take Moriah's devil fruit and I thought of a scene where he brings back Whitebeard and Ace thereby defiling their graves and pissing Luffy the hell off

There's more to that theory but not much evidence. I just think it's a cool idea. Either that or the Ope Ope no mii

[meager jasper]

One of the Holy knights wears a cowboy hat, Big mom wore a cowboy hat in her younger years.

Another one has horns very similar to those on the silhouette of young kaido.

A third one looks eerily similar to Shanks, who was found on God Valley after the Rocks fight.

Could the holy knights be Rocks clones?

[normal sandal]

Shanks was never a part of rocks though. Unless there's some relationship between his lineage and xebec then perhaps. We know next to nothing about the holy knights. What is their role? Why weren't they deployed for the paramount war? Why don't the celestial dragons call on them? Is their existence only known to the gorousei? Have they been around forever or are they a newly established group like SWORD? Any kind of details would help establish some theories but with next to no knowledge about them it isn't easy

[stoic turret]

bruh i joined this server because of the holy knights spam, is it really likely to be shanks and company???

[meager jasper]

Their existence is known to the Celestial dragons since they intervened in a dispute between two Celestials, covered in chapter 1056 I think.

[meager jasper]

Shanks AND company sounds very unlikely. Shanks alone may be possible, but as stated by @normal sandal before, we have very little to go on.

[native flower]

i doubt itll be our shanks i think its actually more likely its more cloning shenanigans - oh shit i didnt realize this was the theory channel sorry

[meager jasper]

Ah, I see I've found a companion in my clone theory

Ofcourse, there is the meeting between Shanks and the gorosei as well.. How did my boy get to them so easily.

[steady prism]

@slow apex please check #announcements

[exotic sun]

I think either he has an actual twin, or has been cloned by Vegapunk in the past, in the anime/manga with the meeting of the Gorosei, we never saw Shanks' scarred eye.

The biggest reveal for One Piece is definitely going to be Rocks' appearance, will answer a lot of theories.

[slender fulcrum]

I don't see cowboy hat...

[meager jasper]

It's only speculation, but it's what I personally see in the upper left silhouette.

The GK could very well be based on the templar knights though, the nine founders of Jerusalem... Which could mean that they, along with Imu, formed the holy land. This'd imply they have been around for at least 800+ years, and which would clear Shanks of any suspicion since we know he was found as a baby at God Valley.

[stone dirge]

That man looks like shanks

[stone dirge]

Shanks father

[sour moss]

I think that maybe the Holy Knights are the position under the Five Elders. So the hierarchy would be Im, Elders, Knights, and other Celestial Dragons.

[tepid heron]

Why not the Holy Knights has authority over the Seraphims, then? Is strange the Elders do had that's power and the élite guard dont

[wintry pawn]

what

[steady prism]

!theories Friendly reminder: since this channel's meant for long-form theories, please take all of the Holy Knight discussions to #manga-serious . This isn't the place for short commentary/observations.

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

@regal flare please read the message above ^

[frail rose]

i think even if shanks wasn't a member of the celestial dragons, the gorosei might still be willing to meet him just due to him seeming to want to maintain the balance of the world (Stopped kaido from getting to marineford etc). This benefits the world government, but I believe that Shanks is actually doing this so Luffy can grow strong enough for the two to duel for the honor of becoming king of this generation.

I think it's also likely we get shanks vs buggy 1v1 given how well buggy counters him, essentially the same as with luffy countering enel

[wild otter]

this is already questionable because it suggests kaidou wanted to go to marineford for luffy

"It is revealed that Shanks intercepted fellow Emperor Kaidou in order to prevent him from taking Whitebeard's head" (One Piece Wiki, Chapter 533 chapter notes)

[steady prism]

@molten blade sharing a link to a theory is fine, but we ask people to provide a short summary of it so people understand what they’re going to read. Please edit your message and provide a 2-3 sentences detailing the theory’s premise and the evidences/reasoning being used in it.

@grim harness are you responding to someone’s theory or are you just making an observation?

[grim harness]

Oh damn thought this was serious

[steady prism]

Lol nope. All right I’ll delete it for now.

[steady prism]

@open sandal this channel’s for long in-depth theories like the ones pinned. Please use #manga or #manga-serious for short observations/thoughts

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[karmic stream]

It's a twist. He's not one of them

[light iris]

Theorie: Cross guild will face Blackbeard Pirates. Shiryu will kill mihawk. Zoro get 1v1 Revenge in final war

[stoic turret]

Hey guys i have a theory on the wording "Holy" from Holy knights, this sounds just like the Crusaders, who used to be mercenaries in the middle ages. Mercenaries were paid for groups, not directly employed but contracted for their services. By powerful clerics and merchants. I think this hints at an outsider contracted group and it's not far fetched at all...

[lunar acorn]

Short but serious theory: could it be that gan fall was one of holy knights in the past? Three points that might support it. One - he's the only one at skypiea who doesn't have wings so he's not originally from there; Two - he was promoted at some point to be the leader of the nation (or "God"); And three - after he was kicked by enel from his position his first instinct (after making a pumpkin garden) was to wear armor and act as a guardian knight. Could it be he was one of holy knights who disagreed with the Gorosei, left or was removed, and ended up in Skypiea long time ago?

[fallow bobcat]

There's also a theory that he's the brother or relative of Gorosei Merlin, which would make sense if the holy knights are celestials from powerful families

[hollow brook]

Revenge? Zoro just wants to beat the Nr. 1 to be the number one so he would just fight Shiryu then butI think since we got 1.080+ Episodes of Mihawk being the Nr. 1 and the pinnacle that Zoro wants to beat they won't switch Mihawk to Shiryu in the last moment. Maybe Zoro and Mihawk are fighting, both are exhausted and Shiryu kills Mihawk

[hollow sand]

wasnt it confirmed that they are celestial dragons themslves?

[craggy sun]

No

[fallow bobcat]

https://youtu.be/e9Ew4-Ayujw
Alright, essentially this theory says that the D initial stans for "Don". The reasoning is basically the same as the "Dawn" except that it ties into a few more things.

One, the "don (ドーン)" sound effect on important panels, signifying a big event.

Two, Tom's philosophy of doing things with a "don", being proud of what you do no matter what. This is the connector between every member of the D clan so far and the missing link between the other possible meanings. Even the left field members Saul, Law, Teach etc abide by this, they're fully committed to their cause and never give up. On a side note I'd say that the D is what differentiates Law and Kid, Law is probably gonna get back up while Mid is mostly out of the running.

Also a neat thing I noticed is that Roger's full name would be Gol Don Roger... Golden Roger. The only problem with this theory is the existence of Krieg and I suppose Chinjao but at least he's respectable. First full post I've made in the channel so tell me what y'all think, full credits to the creator of course.

[thorny wedge]

Dunno if it’s been discussed but ganfall being one of those holy knights?!

[hollow brook]

so you gonna tell me that this guy is a D? okay I'm in.

[fallow bobcat]

There's also a theory that he's the brother of Gorosei Merlin, it would make sense

[thorny wedge]

Imagine 🥨🥪🥖🥐

[chilly swallow]

yo i know everybody is theorizing about shanks, so I want to share my takes:

First of all, I went back to both the manga chapter and the anime episode to compare the scene, and in both of them we were only shown half of Shanks face. Now from my point of view, in the manga that could be easily explained as a stylistic choice by Oda, but the fact that also in the anime the animator were keen on recreating the same angle (which to me looks kinda unnatural in the anime) tells us that they were avoiding on purpose to show us the entirety of Shanks face.

Now thanks to film red we know that he is part of the Fearland family, and most of us thought that was a celestial dragon family.

But what if they are a family that are part of the God’s knight?

In chapter 1083 we’re shown a silhouette of them and the one in the centre looks like Shanks, but what if it’s a new character that looks like him?

This guy could have similar appearance with Shanks, but he will still have both arms and no scar on his face. They could be brother or something, and the fact that this new guy is part of the god’s knight would explain why he was able to speak with the five elders.

I know that this could seems far fetched but honestly I have seen way worse theories on youtube, at least mine is based on evidence and not word play

[heady lichen]

I think Skypiea may parallel the end of One Piece.

Luffy is a God who believes he's human, and Enel is a human who believes he is a God.

This could be switched by Imu taking Enel's place, a human who believes he is a God.
Gorosei takes the place of the priests,
God's Knights could be taking the place of the White Berets, who were the enforcers of Skypiea.
The national treasure of Mariejois takes the place of the Golden Bell.
The ruins of Shandora takes the place of the ruins of the Ancient Kingdom

Not to mention, Enel's big lightning ball thing is eerily similar to the big orb that destroyed Lulusia

A few details would definitely change during this, for example:
We've seen Alabasta and Dressrosa as a parallel. In Alabasta, Crocodile was planning to take over the country. Dressrosa was what if the villain already took over?

[chilly swallow]

also mark my words, crokus is the man marked by flames (i will not elaborate on that)

[paper bloom]

it's ace obv

[pure raven]

He doesn't have to be a holy knight if he just dresses as a knight.

[lunar acorn]

doesn't have to, fully agreed

[craggy sun]

Sunk Cost - Why We’re Not Going to See The One Piece Treasure

First, I'd like to get rid of all the notions that there’ll be a great war once it’s found.
In Vol 97 SBS, Oda states that once the One Piece is found, the series is over
[Source: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYUHN_aWAAANFKT?format=jpg&name=large]

This is a common misconception, but Whitebeard never said that after the One Piece is found a war will start. He said that a war would happen at some point, and when the One Piece is found the world will be turned upside down, but the events are not necessarily one and the same
[Scan: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYUKRPZX0AANkh-?format=jpg&name=large]

The Sunk Cost Fallacy, also the namesake of my theory, refers to the internal human bias to continue with an endeavor we’ve invested time, effort, or money into. This might seem irrelevant at first, but it represents Oda’s business method in a way. To a degree, One Piece relies on the sunk cost that us fans have developed via years of reading the series. The One Piece HAS to live up to the expectations of reading a series for 25 years, or it’ll leave a horrible aftertaste.
In a way, Oda has already proven that he relies on the Sunk Cost effect. This thread about quotes from Oda notes some interesting stuff.
Wanted! (God’s Gift for the Future): Believes “flashy scenes” are a theme of One Piece.
Animation Logbook: Each chapter is written to have a big highlight moment.
TBS Internet Radio March: The last page of a chapter is written to be the most important moment for hooking the reader to the next chapter.
This is all to say, that Oda relies on hype and the pre-established stakes to keep readers hooked. Oda might never be capable of fulfilling said hype ever, most One Piece- (cont)

[median nexus]

He is not a D, he is Don crieg, don is a noble role or something like that

[hollow brook]

"Alright, essentially this theory says that the D initial stans for "Don". " I meant it as pure sarcasm with then Don Crieg or Don Chinjao thingy

[craggy sun]

Piece plot threads are mostly unresolved or half-resolved after thousands of chapters.
So… What if Oda realized all this already and decided to keep the story going for as long as possible off the hype? We’re all reading off the hype and the anticipation of something, without it being fulfilled. In a way that’s the essence of a story reliant on its ending such as One Piece.

I believe, that the way the One Piece has been written as a treasure is to be as absurd as possible, where no realistic humanly expectations of the treasure can ever be met. I believe this is done on purpose.

• The One Piece comes from 800 years ago, from a man known as Joyboy
• It is said to have unimaginable value
• It is located on an island that no one has visited for 20+ years
• Everyone in the world seeks to find it
  However.
• Once the Roger pirates found it, they simply laughed.
• One Piece can be written as “in one piece”, “the rope linking all men”, and “one sea at peace”
• The world will be shaken to its core when someone nears the One Piece
• A grand battle engulfing the whole world is bound to happen over the One Piece

How can something be so world changing, but so funny? How can something be physical but metaphorical at the same time? How can something with an unimaginable value ever be displayed to eyes?
Simply, the One Piece won’t be seen. It’s unimportant to the narrative. The relevance of the One Piece is the teachings seeing it gives the person.
My main piece of evidence for this theory is Rayleigh’s words regarding the One Piece; how everyone interprets the One Piece. The way Rayleigh talks about it is as if the meta meaning of it is more important than the physical treasure, but the underlying tone of his words are very interesting. The way he talks about it is as if it’s really, something of unimaginable value.

TL;DR: The One Piece is a very absurd object, a very absurd plot device, and we’ll never see it specifically because of that.

[grim harness]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/13er07u/spoilers_1083_theres_an_imposter_among_us/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

tldr: Shanks didn’t meet with the Gorosei, it was one of the God’s Knights.

[acoustic egret]

Crazy theory: gold roger was a holy knight before being a pirate and trained shanks to be the same basically. Would explain his move names like divine departure and why his appearance matches the holy knight silhouette and why red hair got special access to mariejoa while also having the same move set…. I know this is probably dumb af just wanted to say it lol

[craggy sun]

OH SHIT I NEVER NOTICED THE "DIVINE" DEPARTURE

[nimble fox]

The reason why kuma wanted his conscious mind erased is obvious. For one reason or another he knew he was going to have to return to being a slave of the celestial dragons.

[lone steeple]

It's Saul

[pure raven]

He met Rayleigh when they were young rookie pirates

How can he be an ex holy knight

[pliant plover]

shanks is the leader of gods knight

[pure raven]

Who has Ace (rogers sword) now that Ace (rogers son) is gone also it seems like that sword had some wasted potential in those hands anyways

[chilly swallow]

I will proceed to elaborate, I found this theory in an italian Youtube channel called Bike&Raft, the theory goes the following:

What do we know about the man marked by flames?

1. He goes around in a black ship
2. Somehow he generates whirlpool

Now think about this: Laboon can be considered as Crocus ship, it is all black and it most certainly can create whirlpool due to his sheer size.
Crocus was in Roger’s crew, so it’s a fair assumption to think that he knows about the road ponegliph.
On top of that, Crocus has some kind of scar on his arm.

To be fair not even the youtuber really believes in this theory but he shared it for the meme, and honestly after some of the weird theories that I heard on youtube I prefer to believe in one that is at least funny. (Sometimes I wonder if they watch OnePiece via instagram reels)

[lone steeple]

None of his scars look like burns, and Laboon is pretty intent on staying where he is

got you to elabrorate

[digital epoch]

Anyone else think Karasu might be awakened? Given this is based on two very limited pieces of info

incredibly fine control of summoned, elemental creatures

His soot obelisk attack looks like it's shooting out of the ground, like he's converting the surface into it, something we've not seen from a logia before

[slender fulcrum]

No because I had the same Theory a few days ago,
One of the god's knight might be shanks father, and shanks lineage, despite being a pirate, allows him to have audience with gurusei and to roam marijoie.

Shanks is seen as a turbulent kid that stray out of his pace but could take back his seat if he wanted to , and since he's not wrecking havoc in the world and maintain balance, he's seen positively by the Gurusei who respect his lineage first above all.
Shanks didnt barge uninvited at the gurusei's room. He was announced somehow and presented himself.

The gurusei even said " since its you, we made time to listen to you " so Shanks announced himself and sent a demand to be heard.
Which means he entered Marijoie probably on the basis of his lineage only, which opened the door of the city.

Since it's the reverie, he can't be seen by outsiders roaming the city so he hide himself to hide his presence from commoners and guest from others nations. Which means it can't be is twin either cause he would have had no need to hide if he was a known celestial dragon.

[chilly swallow]

yeah but this further proves the theory of the Fearland family being heavily tied with the God’s Knight.
In my previous text I said that the man behind the silhouette looks similar to shanks, but he could be anybody (his father, his brother, his clone…).
And again, we have no visual proof that confirm us that it was actually shanks at the meeting (we see no scar nor his missing arm, not even his classic attire and his majestic pants) nor his name was directly stated in the chapter/episode.

Furthermore, what if the pirate he wanted to speak about was Shanks?

Honestly it would not be the first time in manga history that 2 different characters looks identical, so to me this theory still sound reasonable.

Please go back and check the anime scene, and then compare all the other scene with Shanks, you’ll see what I mean when I said that it looks odd.

[slender fulcrum]

yeah but it would seems weird that nobody had ever had a small line of questionment or dialog about it. Like nobody ever saw his twin in marijoie? Nobody ever wondered why there was a shanks lookalike ? And why the need of roaming marijoie cloaked if it was the case, and he was a god's knight or whatever? It's weird as f****. that's why I believe its shanks cause a Celestial would never resort to hide himself , since they are all full of themselves. ( Moroever, he came from far away and was not in Marijoie to begin with so it was not a God's knight since we know those were in the city at that period )
Shanks came to talk about blackbeard and the gurusei told of Blackbeard to Imu and that's why Imu had BB wanted poster in its hands along SH and Shirahoshi and Vivi

[chilly swallow]

yeah but consider this, until today we didn’t even know about this group called God’s Knight, and it’s fair to assume that not many knows of their existence, or at least their appearance is unknown to most of the people.
And again, we know nothing about the gods knight, even the gorosei are celestial dragon and yet they do not wear the classical space suit like the others, and by looking in the silhouettes of the gods knight we see that they also wear normal clothes.
The fact that he was cloaked could also be a one time thing just for the element of surprise like it was with Garp in water 7, who after that never wore again his Dog like hat

[chilly swallow]

I also belive that this is very possible, because until last week it was the only valid theory based on what we used to know, but since new facts have emerged I’m just proposing a new way of seeing the same events

[slender fulcrum]

Its possible, I agree, but I don't find it likely ( but that's my opinion )

[swift jungle]

personally you guys think the so called god knights are based on....
God and his angels?
or Knights of the Round Table, with the captain name being arthur or something

[median nexus]

There is a theory regarding about why roger pirates laughed, and it says that The "key" was left with buggy and shanks, since buggy couldn't go and shanks (with the hat) stayed with him. This theory stated that since Roger knew he was dying, they started laughing when they realized that they came there, roger wouldn't be able to return, and they forgot the most important thing, the key to open (hence "Laugh Tale").

[hollow sand]

thats not shanks, its a clone probably or twin brother

[pure raven]

Imu backwards is Umi, Umi in japanese is Sea, and in arabic, it is Mother. There is a One Piece OST called Mother Sea, coincidence or not?

[hollow sand]

i read a whole theory about that, imu could be the mother of the sea which hates all df users because its unnatural and soby lets them drown by entering their domain.

[pure raven]

Yeah and so I think that is true.

[pale sable]

or loki

[slender fulcrum]

Its debunked. Roger said in the same panel " we were too early " even the sea kings said the same. They came 20 years too soon

[hazy minnow]

Where is the devil fruit theory?

If there isnt one, im gonna put my theory here: What would happen if a devil fruit, fell/got thrown in the water? We all know that devil fruit users can't swim, but what would happen if a devil fruit itself would go in the water ?

[steady prism]

There are quite a few devil fruit-related theories in the channel’s pins. Also since this channel is for long theories, please feel free to either elaborate on your perspective and give in-story evidence/reasoning or use #manga-serious for open-ended questions like the ones you’ve just asked.

[silent crane]

i don't remember in which ep was this but it's absolutely shows that water doesn't effect in df directly it's only effects in its user

[median nexus]

the devil fruit wouldn't be able to...use their own abilities(?)

they would just behave as fruits (float) probably, or sunk till dephs of the ocean where the pressure would crush them, making them spawn in the nearby fruit

[ashen walrus]

if the devil fruit itself fall off the ocean then it'll be unusable (maybe?) Well the user lost the ability to swim after consuming it, so yea a devil fruit will sink to the bottom of the ocean and Will be unusable

[steady prism]

!theories Guys, please take this entire devil fruit discussion to #manga-serious .

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[pure raven]

Interesting theory about the current chap

[pure raven]

thats not a theory but just speculation

[astral junco]

Manga theory, what if we all think that laugh tale is where one piece hidden but what it hidden some where imu know but everything that happen in void century is future and 4 god, aka sun god Nika and other one can open the one piece.

[steady prism]

@astral junco you’re making a lot of big claims (void century is the future, Imu knows where Laugh Tale is, etc.) without much evidence to prove it one way or the other. In this channel we ask that people elaborate and provide evidence/reasoning to support their claims. Else, maybe take short ideas like that to #manga-serious

@glacial junco please ask questions like that in #manga or #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[hexed olive]

When brook awakens his fruit I think he might have the ability to bring someone back to life in skeleton form maybe

[vital belfry]

actually laughin rn but not totally dumb

[lunar acorn]

It wouldn't be outside of realms of possibility. I think that bara-bara fruit's awakening is to be able to cut other things into pieces, and that might be the key in some fashion, it might be necessary to defragment red line or something like that. And Roger's crew laughing at how it was specifically Buggy that got unexplainably sick when they were about to go to Laugh Tale, for them to arrive there and realize they need him, how fate specifically chose Buggy for its vessel and then prevented him to go there cause it was too early. On the other hand Roger was also mentioning how he wished he met Joyboy and how it was the story that made him laugh. Might be the realization that Shanks made 24 years ago that indeed he needed to find the other key-fruit (nika/gomu) to be able to do what Roger couldn't at the time.

[paper bloom]

It's probably changing other people into their astral form or directly attacking the soul of people

[balmy willow]

You see I think this would be brilliant but the VAST majority would hate this and riot lmao

[tacit merlin]

what are your theories on the members of the god knights

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[rancid tulip]

the 9 holy knights are a reference to the knights templars which was founded by 9 knights. The world goverment represents spain/ protugal and Catholicism.

[steady prism]

It’s a good thought, but since this channel’s for super-long theories like the ones pinned, do you have any others details to add and/or ways it can explain their dynamic within the WG and the Gorosei/Imu? Else, shorter observations like that are better discussed in #manga-serious

[rancid tulip]

I have a 21240 words google doc scratching the surface of this. But its pretty much the foundation on which one piece is written on and our world history.

like i dont know how to get into it man its too much

[ashen surge]

Pretty tall order to say WG represents spain/portugal when you can find equal references of their actions in Japans own history

[dark quail]

OH I FUCKING CRACKED IT YOU MOTHERFUCKERS

SHANKS DOESNT HAVE A TWIN

The leader of gods soldiers, and the guy that talked to the gorosei that we thought was shanks?

Hes a MADSxROCKS Clone
Because Shanks is actually Rocks D Xebec

Now, we know that people can be de-aged and have their memories knocked out of them a la Bonney

and we know that Shanks was found in a chest the day of the God Valley incident, the same day that Rocks D Xebec disappears

And this dude that looks JUST like shanks for some reason, works for the government as their toppest top brass, and can seemingly walk into mariejoi on the busiest day without being noticed or even having the gorosei freak the fuck out, is because hes a MADS clone of the worlds most dangerous pirate

I think Xebec's whole thing is something microscopic like virus/germ and i think he could infect you without you knowing and pull the plug anytime he wanted,

I think the Rocks Pirates hated eachother and Rocks so much because they were all following his orders under threat of instant death (or worse?)

This would make all of the members slaves and explain the animosity they shared

I could even see it going as far as Rocks being able to control you like doffy or make you stronger like the growth hormones

I also think Roger and Whitebeards sickness very much has to do with Rocks

mind you this follows the thread of the treasure not actually being there, like shandora, like noland, like gaimon even, but most like gilgamesh, where the treasure he is looking for specifically is immortality as he is recently acutely been made aware of and terrified of his own mortality, but when he got through the entire journey, across the sea of death, he finds a monk and the monk goes "oh sorry dawg, theres no imortality, but there is this flower that turns you into a child again and you can use it over and over so its kind of the same thing, right?" which he still graciously takes with intent to bring to the his kingdom Ur, the first major kingdom in history (true) but on the way back it gets stolen by a snake and he laments until another monk, a beer god, comes and listens to his wails, and imparts with him the wisdom of how significant the simple pleasures of life are, and through stories and writing we can be somewhat immortal thanks to people being able to pass down information. Cheering him up and realizing that he has his entire Kingdom to be thankful for he heads back and instructs his top men to craft 12 poneglyphs... er, tablets, telling the story and the teachings of Ur.

Shanks was found after god valley, and rocks has been missing since.

Shanks cried his ass off the day Roger came back from Laugh Tale, if shanks is Rocks, and Rocks is why Roger was going to die,

and what roger expected to find on laugh tale, the panacea, the fountain of youth, the elixir of life, the drink of the gods, a way to rid himself of his death sentence and enjoy his new rule

but it either wasnt there, never existed, or wasnt ready yet, and wouldnt be ready by the time Roger would die

essentially keeping the death sentence that rocks gave him, and shanks knows about all of it, and is horrified to know that he infact will have been the reason Roger dies, even if technically hes completely absolved of guilt

But Roger wont let shanks be the reason he dies, so he gives himself up for death and uses his dream to deliver one last giant blow to the government, hoping that it would be at least somewhat helpful for the cause going forward, but not after he offloads his child onto his rival (ALL of which is JUST like hiriluk and chopper)

There are some strange connections Rocks has to Ceasar, in that Rocks flag has two horns that are short and curved much like ceasars, and the disguise Ceasar uses on Whole Cake is the only non fishman that looks like the Rocks sillouette with the spiked hair that big,

I dont know if theres any literal connection or if oda is just being god at symbolism and imagery again, but i wouldnt be surprised if Rocks had something to do with poison like Ceasar

moral of the story
Shanks is Rocks
Rocks threatened everyone on his crew into doing what he wanted
The head God Soldier is a MADS clone of Rocks
and the Shanks we saw speak with the gorosei is not actually shanks, but the clone, who im calling Shonks

[iron current]

so you think the former user of Bonneys fruit, which cant even deage living things permanently, was in Rocks crew and like erased Rogers, Garps and Shanks memory?

[steep fiber]

Alright, hot topic

[dark quail]

No, it doesnt necessarily mean Bonneys fruit did it, only that it is possible in this world. Giolla can do way more for eternity essentially, and law is kind of dr Manhattan, the op op fruit could totally do that as its not the immortality surgery

wouldnt have ereased anyone's memory but shanks, and then only to make him a baby again. The theory requires that Roger knew what was up and even told shanks who he was. Garp knows SO MUCH and we have heard nearly none of it, for him to know wouldnt be surprising

[steep fiber]

Who do you guys think is from the past in one piece, people who have been sent from the past with the toki toki no mi. My guess is Kuma.

[iron current]

not the channel for this, try it in #manga-serious

[dark quail]

I do think Bonney is unbelievably important in that she was an integral part to God Valley

and the reason Kuma is hiding the memory is because it shows the things she did.

I think Kuma is one of the original kings before the WG took over, and they have been deaging him over and over and over again so they can keep him a slave and torture him for centuries and centuries. I think Bonney is the one that was doing that. I dont think Bonney is kumas actual daughter, but a de-aged nightmare to him that he got to raise and love

[iron current]

why would Roger take him though, that makes absolutely no sense, especially since we have seen the scene where Roger finds him in the chest in movie RED, why would Roger give him his hat

[dark quail]

this story is riddled with people changing their ways because a child shows up in their life, usually someone who has connections to someone that has fucked you over your whole life

Roger wouldnt have killed an innocent child.

Why did Roger even keep shanks at all?

namis backstory
sanjis backstory
sabos story
choppers backstory
kyros story
the windmill guy in alabasta

admittedly, shanks being Rocks son, a clone of Rocks, or a de-aged rocks all work pretty well with what we have

[iron current]

why, why does it work? i will be honest, i read your thing and it makes as much sense to me as Kuro becoming Pirate King, its so convoluted

[dark quail]

ok Chrissy, you tell me why it doesnt work

[iron current]

this whole thing of a mads Xebec clone, Shanks being Xebec who was turned into a baby at Gods Valley for what ever reason, Garp and Roger just watching it, Garp then not taking baby Rocks but Roger, i mean technically sure it could work but like i said its so convoluted

[late elm]

can you lay out your evidence that support these claims?

[grim harness]

I just feel like this is a another episode of Clone Piece. When people don’t have an idea about something the first thing that they try to compel in their head is that this person is actually a clone.

While I don’t agree with your theory. I do their there is another clone (or several) still out in the world waiting to be revealed. I doubt that Stussy will be the last clone in the story.

[terse bronze]

I said this in the spoiler chat before 1083 came out but imma say it again, my take is that the upcoming egghead incident is going to involve the straw hats causing direct harm, if not killing Jay Garcia Saturn. We know that celestial dragons don’t really tend to leave mariejois much and instead prefer to stay there, much less the 5 elders. Even when the Buster call was done on Ohara, they chose to talk to professor clover through a transponder snail instead of going there themselves (why they didn’t just do a buster call on egghead idk). By this point in the story, attacking a celestial dragon isn’t anything out of the ordinary, with Luffy having caused said incident back in Sabaody which made headlines. Having the straw hats directly attack the highest known form of power in the world (since the general public doesn’t know about Im) would be sufficient enough to be the climax of the egghead incident.

[late elm]

they are going above and beyond a buster call for egghead becuase of the capability of its defenses. If i recall they are sending many vice admirals and 100 warships along with kizaru.

[terse bronze]

yeah that's true, honestly feels not as intense since now its reading as chapters come out instead of binging ones that have been out for years

but regardless it's a reasonable enough theory

[chilly swallow]

GrandLineReview also shared a similar theory

[steady prism]

@gaunt spade @chilly rapids both of you are bringing up some interesting ideas, but please use #manga-serious for short "what if" thoughts. This channel's for long theories like the ones pinned.

[desert notch]

at the end of thriller bark,before getting knocked out,sanji told kuma if he wasn't killed, he'd become the "biggest problem to the marines". do you think he was just bullshitting? this wasn't a gag moment or anything,so i don't think oda would say something that heavy if there wasn't some truth to it. what are your thoughts on this?

[dark quail]

im just playing within the rules and themes oda set out.

Wheres Rocks? Whats Shanks full name? why DID roger keep him and buggy? Why can shanks just walk into the gorosei room with no scar, how did shanks get from Wano to Marineford in hours? Why does Whitebeards scars ache when he sees Shanks face? saying it makes me think of "him..." and why does shanks say his scars ache too?

We know MADS was cloning Rocks pirates, we have Stussy and Weevil, We know the front Heavenly warrior looks just like shanks, same sword, same placement,

Is it really that farfetched that a clone of Rocks would be the number one priority of the cloning process? Or that if successful he wouldnt be their greatest asset?

Im not positive if Shanks IS rocks, a son or Rocks, or another clone of rocks, but we know there are many powers out there that could have done that exact thing as what bonney's does, but thanks to her connection to God Valley im inclined to think shes directly connected.

I AM confident that the person in Mariejoi that looks like Shanks IS a clone of Rocks, and the one we saw in the gorosei room was not Shanks

Theres a literary theme called Red Oni Blue Oni
oda is 100 percent throwing it into everything he can but Dorry and Broggy are literally Dorry the Red and Broggy the Blue,

the story is that two oni wanted to make friends with a village that was scared of them, so red cooked up a plan to scare the village and have blue come save the day. It worked and the village loved blue, but hated red even more, so after a while blue went to vidit red in the forest and he found a letter saying "glad youre having fun, im kinda bored and im pretty sure they will never like me. im gonna travel the world, see you when i see you <3"

and they lived out their lives away from eachother, one the eternal friend of the humans and one the eternal scourge, but really just two brothers trying not to be lonely

I think shanks specifically goes around, without devil fruits, pulling every single weak crew that will let him under his wing, the literal polar opposite of the one in MarieJoi, who thanks to the swirls drawn over the sillouhettes we can assume has a devil fruit, and is the tip of the discrimination blade for the WG

[grim harness]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/13hi2jz/the_face_of_imu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

tldr: Imu is a child that has eternal youth/immortality.

[late elm]

pretty tall child

[novel scroll]

This man is NOT Shanks.

It's all make sense now as to why he can meet the Gorosei.
This man is one of the God's knight, the one that looks like Shanks.
He is most like Shanks' twin brother, one of the Celestial Dragon from the Figarland family.

We never see his full face, Oda didn't show the left side of his face where Shanks has the scars. Oda didn't show his arm.

This man is not Shanks.

[ashen surge]

We don't know anything about the possibly non-canon Figarland family

[west summit]

He's laughing because of joyboy doing, something to do with the island or the one piece itself

[slender fulcrum]

The figure with the gurusei is Shanks. Now the question is, what if Shanks is linked to the Holy Knight AND Rocks.
It is possible that rocks was a former holy knight that turned on the Celestial, aiming at taking power to overthrow IMU, thus, he attacked God Valley as a way to defy the authority of his old hierarchy.
Thus, he killed Shanks relatives that day and Shanks ended up stranded and Roger caught him.
Now, since BB is a relative or has a link with Rock, Shanks makes it personal because he wants revenge over Rocks and what they did to his family.
A relatove or the father of Shanks is within the Holy knight.
Shanks being the son of an Holy figures, he is respected by the gurusei and has some entrance into Marijoie. Now the question of the clone or the twin can still be possible. But the shanks looks alike meeting with the gurusei wouldnt have traveled from far away if it wasnt the real deal.

Its clearly said right here

" Given your position - as pirate or an Emperor - politics do not concerns you "

[twilit basalt]

W theory

[leaden cypress]

W

[wild merlin]

What if

Wait for it

Wait for it

Luffy destroyed the red line.
It would achieve his dream of freedom because of the easy access to all the seas
It would be easier for Nami to map out the whole world
Theoretically the All Blue would be created since all the seas' fish are in the same place

After all, doesn't he love helping his friends?
And it could be the true dream that he has which he told Ace, Sabo and his crewmates

[dark quail]

anime says :

"considering your status you should stay away from politics"

also, it never ever ever shows the right side of his face intentionally in the anime as well

official Viz translation: "Given your standing... you should have nothing to do with politics"

Also theres recently been an interview that had to be requested by Oda to be censored

""Q: You mightve been asked this thousands of times already, not sure, but is Shanks two different persons? You know, since Shanks is sometimes drawn without his scar, plus he arrived at the Paramount War so quickly with unbelievable speed

Oda: CENSORED

but you know, quite often, i just tend to forget to draw scars.""

[west summit]

I think that's the general idea that the red line will be destroyed to create the all blue

[slender fulcrum]

"considering your status you should stay away from politics"
This sentence only proves it is Shanks

1- Gurusei are involved in politics
2- God's Knights are involved in politics ( they can be mobilised to quell insurrection apparently, and deal with the Celestial internal affairs )

If this " supposed Shanks copy or twin " is a God's Knight, the Gurusei would never said that " he should stays away from politics "

[idle monolith]

if hes supposed to be shanks twin or is a god knight, the gorosei would say "he should stay away from politics" because if the countrys associated in the world government knew the existence of holy knights during a time like reverie they would have suspicions on the world government or the 5 elders, and they would not trust them because they would think the world government takes money from us and still hides secrets, and if he is shanks twin, most countries would not belive that he is not shanks twin and think that the wg/gorosei are working with a yonkou which would cause the countries to revolt against the wg and would cause distrust towards the wg

[steady prism]

Please provide a short summary of the theory you’re sharing. 3-4 sentences summarizing the premise and some of the evidences used should be enough. Edit: feel free to repost the link as long as it has that summary with it

[steady prism]

@azure mist please use #manga-serious for short thoughts like that

!theories

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[south perch]

shadows at the end of Thriller Bark are living monsters similar to Zunesha
they've been hiding in Florian Triangle from the World Government awaiting for Joyboy to come back. They've been observing Luffy's battle in there and noticed gum-gum (nika) fruit in action, that's why they got teased at the end of TB

everything Oda does and shows to us has a meaning, and im 100% sure that big shadows are going to be former Joyboy's allies from 800 years ago, and when the time is right they will get out of shadows.

[karmic stream]

From what we're seeing now in Egghead, the final war is already underway, but it also seems like it'll be a world war as different factions will be fighting in different, various places all over. Unlike in Marineford where the war only took place in one location. But not only will it be a World War, I feel like the memebers of the Will of D will be fighting or resisting Im at different locations as well. I do want to see Blackbeard and Luffy having a small truce to fight Im.

Or the final war could take place in one location, localized at Marie Geosie, and by extension Fishman Island

[south perch]

yeah it will be pretty much a total chaos, i can easly see few different fractions fighting each other at the same time, and add to this that at one point truth about Im and destruction of Ancient Kingdom will get revealed to whole world which will cause literally every regular human in OP world to go against WG/Marines

[karmic stream]

There will definitely be defectors of the Marines during the war and fighting on the pirate's side. Akainu will die fighting for the WG.

[south perch]

Cross Guild already triggered it with putting bounties on Marines, then there's Revolutionaries, they already convinced 8 kingdoms to join their cause and there will be more with time, and One Piece is supposed to shake the whole world

[karmic stream]

I imagine the fall of the Ancient Kingdom was also a world war. Considering how big the OP world is, and that there's millions of islands, it must've been catastrophic to plunge everyone to the stone ages. It's a post-apocalyptic world. What fucking happened???

[south perch]

IMO Kuzan is the first one to be this kind of guy. Kuzan's "justice" is much different from Akainu's.
Kuzan had chance to become a Fleet Admiral and do the proper changes in Marines to make it a better organisation being more helpful to civilians and that would be better in fighting off pirates, but Kuzan lost to Akainu and left Marines, because he don't want to work under a guy he thinks is obsessed with just killing pirates, and doesn't care about civillians and simple marines, and he doesn't believe in the "justice" Akainu wants to enforce. So Kuzan left Marines and joined Blackbeard to destroy Marines from the outside and then it can be remade properly without malicious people at the top.
Kuzan might not be a "good guy" right now, because he is working for Blackbeard and because of that, he surely has to do some awful things, but IMO he is doing it, because he want to achieve bigger goal and at the end of that goal is peace and real justice for all people in the world. When he saved Smoker from Doflamingo he said that he still is the same person, so im pretty sure that all he is doing right now is just an act, and in the end he will backstab Blackbeard or die trying. From our perspective he is evil right now, but from his perspective he is sacrificing himself for a greater good, that's what i believe

[karmic stream]

I have nothing to say to this. I agree.

[south perch]

people keep forgetting about Shyarly, people keep forgetting about Sea Kings basically KNOWING beforehand that their next ruler would be born in X time, and another king in far away kingdom would be born in Y time.
One Piece world and timeline basically repeats itself. it was all written in Poneglyphs that one day there would be someone carrying whole world on his back, someone who would challenge the world (WG) meaning defeating WG. Roger didn't reveal what OP is not only because he was sick, Oden's journal says that they were too early, and that in 20-30 (can't remember now) years ther would be strong rookies who would do the job.
the way i see it, it is FATED for WG to be destroyed and defeated, as long as Will of D. lives, and as long as D. people keep trying to find freedom they are FATED to find poneglyphs that would eventually lead them to finding One Piece, and if they are the right people in the right time (must be D. born in the same time as Poseidon, and someone who can open Wano borders, that's why it was important for Momo to not die). WG is FATED to lose, but they can extend their rule by killing everyone who is searching for poneglyphs, they can extend their rule by trying to get Nika Devil Fruit, they can extend their rule by killing people of the D. etc. they are only escaping what is inevitable.
that's what inherited will is. right people in right time who inherit right wills, Luffy inheriting Joyboy's will etc.
Luffy was FATED to get into right places, met right people, and do right things leading him into where he is now, as long as he is trying and fighting the FATE is helping him and pushing him forward, it's not only his own will, personality and desire for adventure, it's all of these things combined.
sadly i can't post pictures here, because i've been rereading manga countless of times and got countless of images of different OP characters talking about FATE, HEAVENS and all kind of similar stuff. we already know most of the stuff

[arctic pumice]

I have a theory who the knights can be:
I was just watching marineford
and realized when white Beared is dying (482 anime) he said its time for a new era inwhich garp also realized and said its good Timing. After that we saw a short list of people from in era such as him roger ryleigh and other great pirates and then shanks and buhhy together, made me immediatly think if this might be the real identity of shanks and buggy d clown as the knights

[forest blade]

My main theory is that the entirety of one piece is just a reoccurring story that has happened over and over for generations and the missing time period from history was just the world gov trying to hide the repeated history of the world

[south perch]

let me continue on that topic
FATE is a real actual thing in One Piece world. it's some kind of god-like entity that favors people who are not afraid of death, and who chase their dreams, look at THIS https://i.imgur.com/e4H4riK.png picture. it's in span of like 50 chapters, in the same arc where Whitebeard reveals that One Piece is real, and we see Will of the D. being teased in conversation with Roger, in my opinion this is not coincidence, and Oda heavly hinted at us what Will of D. and FATE is. there's MANY more pictures similar to these where important characters talk about FATE and Heavens, it IS real thing.
people assume that Dragon saved Luffy in Loguetown from being beheaded. i think that FATE sent a lightning to save Luffy, because he was not afraid in the face of death, and even in his final moments he said he would be the one to be the Pirate King. there's more examples of it, but i think that's enough for now.

[steady prism]

It’s definitely an interesting thought, do you have any evidence/reasoning to support it? Are there any recurring characters whose storylines kinda mimic one another in each era?

[south perch]

it's a bit stretched what he said, but the fact that Sea Kings knew that Shirahoshi would be born in X years, and that (probably) Luffy would be born close to that time fits to it well. OP might be a reoccurring story happening over and over again until right people met other right people in the right places and when all the puzzles fit together then they finally are able to overthrow WG like prophecy said.
Oden and others knew that in sometime in the future some rookies would appear and take down Kaido, Roger knew that he was too early on Laugh Tale and that in future someone would fulfill his mission, that's why he was sure his son Ace would do it. i actually wrote about it right above. it's all a bit chaotic, but it all makes sense if you look at it

[arctic pumice]

White beared and zoro and katakuri, warrios whose back never got acratched or sliced or touched to the ground in a fight. I find this as a repeating pattern that I assume proves this theory

[forest blade]

I’m not fully caught up but when I am I’m gonna go into more detail and use evidence

Right now the theory is mostly based off parallels I see between flashbacks and the present story of one piece. Also that notorious smile on Roger and Luffy’s face. They aren’t blood related but they’re so similar it’s striking

Another part of my theory is that the Will of D is simply part of the “destiny” process of the world in one piece and each person with the D initial play a role cast to them that is casted every hundred years or so on and so forth. They all play a role that’d been played prior

[steady prism]

Yeah and I agree with it, there is some level of premeditated destiny in the sea king’s prophecy that establishes the fate of the world. Regardless of how often the story repeats itself, the looming prophecy will come to pass. The great thing about it is although the sea kings are aware of it, none of the current cast of characters (like the SHs) are aware of it or burdened by it. They have free will in choosing the way they want to live without worrying about meeting some sort of deadline. By the end of the story perhaps it will coincide with fate or maybe it’ll find a way to change the fate of the world, whatever it may be.

[steady prism]

I think you’re onto something with WB and Katakuri since they’re both extremely involved in their familial ties too (Zoro’s desires/story is more related to being a swordsman). An easier comparison is Luffy and Roger, who have so many parallels in the story. A slightly challenging example could be Noland and Roger: Noland failed to confirm the existence of his island (Shandora and the city of gold) while Roger was successful in claiming that his island exists (the One Piece and all of his treasure). It almost feels like these inherited wills try to repeat themselves in every era

[steady prism]

Look forward to hearing more about it once you’re caught up. It’s a difficult task to theorize one way or another especially since the story doesn’t delve into a the historical successes/failures of past legends or D clan members enough to establish a clear pattern. I’m definitely curious what roles you think certain D clan members will play, I have my own thoughts on it and most of it stems from the idea of inherited will….but I’ll wait for you to catch up so I don’t muddle your perspective. Either way, careful not to get spoiled around here lol

[candid stratus]

How would the timeline work tho? If they are hiding only 100 years there's been like 800 years after that. So if the loop is 800 years long (it can't be less because we would've known it has repeated), we would still know about it. It just doesn't check out. Not to mention I don't know how it would be even remotely good writing if that was the case.

[dark quail]

Its not so much the story itself repeats, but more that it has echoed through history over and over and over again kingdom after kingdom after kingdom in such a away that when everything is revealed we will already understand the motives of the big players, because we will see their stories have the same shape as the stories in One Piece

Oda has been telling us the story all along, but through fairy tales that seem to be disconnected analogies when in reality 9/10 of the fairy tales are telling the story of the ancestors of the people included in the fairy tales

Honestly, a big reason everything tends to repeat is due to the whole 'a dream never dies' schtick because when it boils down, humans are very predictable in what they want for, so eventually someone is going to come along with the same goals, and thanks to the story having canon souls, and lineage factors, etc, it gets to believably be right in between reincarnation level shenanigans and just basic 'finishing someone elses work' realistic approach.

[arctic pumice]

im not fully caught up but i still dont know anything about zoros family ties

[dark quail]

Shandora's story is the shape of the whole story:

moon peoples with technology and magic dirt are thrust into an environment where they are easily robbed of their treasures by a group of people that share the same backstory but whose connections have been lost through time

the thieves lord atop their stolen goods as false gods for centuries before a savant from a third group with the same lineage deletes the entirety of his homeland and people and absconding to the theives throne with his few devout followers, having beat his homelands own Sky Knight and collected 200 of the dials his country was specially known for, he installs himself as king by force during a shadow coup

Turning what soldiers wouldnt agree to kneel and work form him into slaves, forcing them to build his magnum opus, a ship and weapon the likes no one has ever seen

Meanwhile he watches the entire kingdom from his throne, surgically and immediately obliterating anyone who whispers of his facade with giant blue lasers

meanwhile the first group do what they can to fuck over the kingdom taken from them

Eight years later a rubber boy, his only natural enemy shows up to stop him

but its too late to stop him from firing up his ship, one made from the islands special legendary treasure, which Enel found through sheer force, knowledge, and belief that it existed, all without knowing the special language the directions are written in, something that wasnt done in the 400 years before his rule

The main characters find where the treasure was, but that its gone, and has been for a little while, off being turned into the largest weapon anyone there has ever dreamed of

Believing he is reading an ancient prophecy (which is actually an ancient record) he intends to fly his ship to the moon, but not before destroying all of skypeia using giant blue lasers

He kills everyone at his capital, and obliterates the city directly beneath, Angel Island, main home of the nobility, as a demonstration

as a final fuck you from Enel to Skypeia, he decides to track down the cultural treasure of the Shandorans, the one that lets the world know they exist, the one of which tiny versions exist out in the world as common items, one he again gets to before the main characters, up at the highest point of skypeia

of course Luffy is able to ring the bell again, and strike down Enel

I think Enel (NL) is a direct IM parallel

I think the bell is the strawhat, the big one being the giant hat in mariejoi, and the ingots being regular straw hats like the one Luffy has

I think the ringing of the bell? Binks Sake, the audible ringing that lets those who can hear ir or know to listen for it, that the kingdom is STILL THERE, a love song to the world, a ROMANCE DON

and the strawhat is the bell that rings binks sake

Birka is God Valley
Where the Dials/Devil Fruits were solely grown
where Enel completely deleting it before taking over Skypiea is Imu deleting God Valley and hoofing it with all of the devil fruits

Wyper is Dragon
Villiage leader is Garp
Sky Knight? Shanks

Meaning Garp and Dragon are of the foreign peoples whos technology and treasures were yanked from them by Shanks bloodline and used and abused before having everything taken from them through a shadow coup that put Imu on the throne

Imu will want to delete either Red Port or MarieJoi before threatening to destroy the world for fun, of which luffy will come in and smack them down, even though Imu has already muscled their way to Laughtale and taken whatever was put there, because despite the 900 years of planning put in place to have luffy be able to topple the throne, he never needed it.

The void century is Shanks bloodline, the supreme king, the giants royalty, using the stolen technology (that could be used to make a paradise for everyone) and used it to terrorize the world with oars size giants and the same fruit powers wer are seeing now, actual kaiju that could walk the ocean floor because that rule hadnt been made yet. San Juan Wolf with the Mera Mera? fuggedabout it

and the rest of the kingdoms (namely the 20) rose up against the Red kingdom and attempted to eradicate any knowledge fo the kingdom, or the tech they used, in an attempt to keep the devils the fruits get their names from, from walking the earth again, because to them even though the tech could be miraculous, it could just as easily destroy everything everywhere, and this absolute Justice heirarchy breeds stability act is genuine, an attempt to keep the world safe through rule and infighting

but just like Jaguar D Saul said, not all giants are bad, and Joyboy broke rank of his Giant brothers (just like saul did) in an attempt to save and protect those who his kingdom had ravaged, his home base was wano, a crazy patchwork of small countries full of 6 houses named after different moons. housing the survivors of his kingdom blasting moons out of the sky using hakoku sovereignty, displacing those who lived there to their kingdom for ruling, or just destroying them entirely

The only reason the last moon survives is due to there being no usable resources left as we learn from Enel

Ohara has a globe with 6 moons, of which, only one has identafiably features, being black spots, which is what Orochis family name literally translates to.

I think wano and the kozuki are the royalty of the last moon,

but Joyboy knew that defeat was inevitable, he had the kozuki create the poneglyphs, walled off wano, filled it with freshwater as to not be seen, and died, leaving his skull to later be inhabited by kaido and turned into Onigashima

Fitting that when Joyboy returned, a strawhat was right where a hat should be, and through the fight, it was knocked off multiple times, but yet, still found its way back before ushering in Joyboy himself

I do think Joyboy killed himself too, out of honor, and in an attempt to not let the enemy get his body. a massive katana is sticking out right where it would be if he committed seppuku for breaking his promise, as giants are so honor bound

I like to think Kaido would be delighted to know how actually integral he was to bringing Joyboy back

That alone makes me think Dragon is the one in the black boat that has the final poneglyph, dragon did the same, knowing he wasnt joyboy, he made sure that nobody worse than him would assemble everything, so he took an integral piece and holds it as the final test for the real Joyboy,

and seeing as he is the wind, the person who catches him is going to have to catch the wind

Theres an interesting connection between Dragons tattoo and the Norse god Fryer through fryers rune

fryer is interesting in that he had a wicker ship he could fit in his pocket, but it was a round saucer shape as the ship flew through the air, because its trick was that the wind was always at its back,

Is Imus ship an actual giant straw hat shaped saucer? One that could be piloted and protected by someone with wind powers?

I can never unsee on the heiroglyphs in the Enel cover story, that one of the ships looks exactly like an upturned strawhat.

like... exactly exactly, down to the stripe/ribbon

also, a Pluton? is a real volcanic phenomena where lava is solidified before coming to the surface

and the textbook diagrams you see when you google it, look just like the few cross secions of wano and mt fuji, with Onigashima right on top of the vent adjacent to the volcanos where you can find Plutons at the bottom of

[median nexus]

xD

[fierce grove]

Does anyone else but me believe in the crocomom theory

[dark quail]

I dont think crocodile is Luffys mom, but i do think Crocodile is the missing Snake Princess in Amazon Lily history

[desert notch]

I don't think crocomom is a serious theory at all to be honest. The only piece of evidence is that ivankov has something heavy on croc,which could be a gender change. Otherwise his relationship with luffy doesn't show that he is related to luffy at all.

[mighty widget]

🧵🪡 A thread explaining how Gear 5 is Luffy’s first official Gear and how he’s been fighting in Gear 5 the entire story.

To understand what I mean by “First Official Gear” we need to really understand how Luffy’s powers work. When you think about all of Luffy’s Gears you’ll realise they are all self inflicted forms and not actual transformations caused by his Devil Fruit, aside from Gear 5.

Gear 2, 3 and 4 (all forms) are not his Devil Fruits transformations.

They’re Luffy using his imagination and rubbery body to fight in the unique ways that he can think of, within the limits of freedom that his body possessed.

Take Gear 2 for example. Luffy increases the speed of his blood flow but due to his rubbery properties can withstand the pressure and not suffer the fatal consequences inside of his body.

Gear 3 is Luffy inflating particular bones in his body by blowing air through his thumb.

Gear 4 is a combination of Luffy inflating his muscles and covering them in Armament Haki. And while doing so is able to create Bound Man, Tank Man and Snake Man.

But all of these Gear’s aren’t transformations of the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika. It’s just Luffy utilising the base aspect of his fruit. His rubber body.

The Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Nika is a Mythical Zoan. This means it’s based off of a creature or deity that’s subject to myth or legend in the world of One Piece. In this case, that’s Nika. We don’t know if Nika ever really existed. But we can assume that he didn’t. This is due to the fact a Mythical Zoan is based off of him.

The reason I say that is because this means it doesn’t exist in the One Piece world itself, but only through the myths and legends of the One Piece world itself. But take that with a pinch of salt as it could go either way. (1/4)

We don’t know much about Nika or if we even know all of the abilities he possessed. But what we do know is that he is a human and that his significant trait is his naturally rubber body. Which he could also transfer to effect the environment, or people around him.

The reason this is important is because it actually explains why Luffy although being a Mythical Zoan, always has a rubber body. And why his fruit sometimes functions similar to a Paramecia.

This situation is similar to Buggy’s Bara Bara no Mi and how after eating it, became a permanent Chop Chop Human and is unable to turn those powers off.

But I believe the reason for Luffy being permanently rubber is because he doesn’t have access to a hybrid form.

The reason for that is because Luffy is a human, and his Devil Fruit is the Hito Hito no Mi (Human Human Fruit).

This is a rare occasion where a Mythical Zoan specifically, was based off a deity or creature that’s subject to myth or legend but was also a human!

Another example of this would be Sengoku and the Hito Hito no Mi, Model: Daibutsu. He has no hybrid form that we know of. It’s either Sengoku as a human, or Sengoku in his Buddha form.

This is because it’s impossible for a hybrid to be two things of the same species. And as we just discovered, Luffy and Nika are both humans the same as Sengoku and the Buddha, so this makes perfect sense.

This is why I believe Gear 5 is his full Zoan transformation, and his first OFFICIAL Gear.

And when you compare the way Luffy fights in Base form, Gear 2, Gear 3 and Gear 4 throughout the story, with how he fights in Gear 5 now. You can clearly see Luffy trying to fight in similar ways to how he fights in Gear 5 (Zoan Transformation), without having any access to it.

And as a result of not having access to his Zoan transformation, (Because he wasn’t awakened) his moves weren’t as efficient or effective. And some could straight up just not be done. Like Luffy turning himself into a Giant. (2/4)

Forcing Luffy to create these Gears as an improvisation because as we know, his body’s freedom was capped. But his imagination wasn’t.

The problem was that his Gears all had limits and drawbacks and couldn’t be used simultaneously.

For example with Gear 3 he couldn’t inflate his entire body it was just specific parts of his body like both his arms, or one of his feet but not all at the same time like in his Giant form.

This is up until Gear 5 where he is now able to use them all simultaneously and go miles beyond what he was able to do before. So essentially, Luffy has been fighting in Gear 5 the entire story. Just a severely restricted version.

Now, with his restrictions gone it may now feel like Luffy is “defying logic.” An example of this would be Luffy instantly turning into a Giant without having to physically inflate himself, turning intangible things tangible or transferring his power to other living beings.

But this is to be expected when the very deity you’re transformed into is also a mythical warrior, subject of legend. It defies all logic entirely just from existing. Same as how Marco can heal people with flames. Because the creature he’s transformed into could just do that.

In my eyes, the design of Gear 5 is perfect. From the style to the colours used.

The white colour of the form I believe is to represent two things. The first being the Sun as the actual colour of the Sun is white. We also know that the Sun is a symbol of freedom.

And secondly, a blank canvas.

I say this because with this form, grants Luffy the opportunity to create and bring to life whatever crazy moves, techniques or forms he could possibly imagine! (3/4)

[clear kraken]

isn’t this just changing the definition of a gear

[mighty widget]

The cartoon aspect of the power grants Luffy the literal ability to bring smiles to the people of the world just like Nika. It also allows us as the readers and other spectators of Luffy’s fights a much more defined and clear understanding of his emotions. Also making it much easier to recognise Luffy’s thoughts and feelings.

Gear 5 is a transformation that perfectly depicts the imagery of freedom and joy. Those same themes that associate so fluently with Luffy’s personality and character throughout the story.

Truly the greatest transformation of all time.

If you made it this far, I appreciate your time. Thank you for reading and any thoughts are appreciated 💙

[fading viper]

Luffy can't literally bring smiles to people, Nika makes people happy. He didn't really make anyone smile in Wano, but he does make them happy by beating Kaido. I like this theory though, although saying that he's been fighting in a restricted Gear 5th is basically just saying he was a regular zoan

I've thought about this a lot, and the first thing that seemed reasonable was that luffy doesn't have access to a hybrid form because Nika was a regular guy just made of rubber. His awakening's the closest he gets, he just happens to have Nika's body. His forms would already be human, human/human, or human lol.

[dark quail]

ayo i was thinking about how gear 2 is him forcing his heart to pump faster, and his muscles to move it around faster than it should

and haki comes from the heart

could luffy manually inflate his haki like he does his blood?

[ashen surge]

@weak arrow spoilers outside of spoilers

[weak arrow]

going to assume that was more of a joke than a spoiler tbh

but yeah, still deleted

[radiant crown]

I have a tiny theory that the NIka fruit can bring smiles to people, Nika is related to the creation of devil fruits, and is related to the side-affect of SMILES

[thorn matrix]

I think there's a possibility that the Shanks we saw in the reverie was not actually the Shanks we know but someone else who's a lookalike of shanks who is also a part of Holy Knights (Scar on the left side of the face is hidden for a reason)

[grim harness]

You’re about a week too late

[thorn matrix]

I know, and I dont care. I want to put it out there

[spring tapir]

What if Imu is targeting those with the letter “D” in their name??

So far it has been confirmed that Luffy and Blackbeard have the will of D, it is said that these who pose the will of D are a danger to God, which would explain why they are being targeted by Imu, as he is the ‘ruler’ of the empty throne, in a world where there is no ruler, he is the secret one.

I think vivi’s importance in returning to the story and being under the protection with Morgon is interesting. We know that before Cobra died, he was having a conversation with Imu, it can be implied that someone came about that triggered Imu and killed Vivi’s father.

shirahoshi is another important character, as she is one of the 3 ancient weapons of the world. Although there is no evidence of her having the Will of D as of now, it is not out of the loop to suggest that it is possible, after all, someone with the power to control sea beasts / sea kings could easily rule the world

[lunar talon]

We see in the story that the World Government (in extension Imu) has been trying to rid all of the ones with D in their names. Which is why they changed Rogers name to alter history

[dreamy lotus]

Lili is Imu feels too obvious but like they gotta be linked

[robust kettle]

lily imu joyboy love story triangle

[knotty stratus]

Hi I'm Ito, Huge one piece fan and new to the server but HOLY SHIT THAT LAST CHAPTER!

[robust kettle]

one piece is a funny lovestory which is why roger laughed, it was unbelievable

[pure raven]

Black beard for pirate king?

[robust kettle]

lily betrayed her lover joyboy for her country but couldnt become celestial imu loved her but was rejected, he killed her and stayed hidden

[old pelican]

If she's still alive I imagine the Op-Op fruits Immortality operation is the cause

[hallow pewter]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[soft quartz]

This sounds like a stupid question but how can I get into the manga voice chat

[alpine dagger]

I think it’s obvious imu isnt lily and instead she killed lily… just like lulusia lily was wiped away from history

[white vector]

I think that if imu is not lily then imu is the one who is using lily to get imortality

[proud tree]

I made a theory in this channel -- 2 years ago #manga-theories message, how I counted only 18 swords in front of the empty throne (can somebody recount, I think I counted correctly). Now in chapter 1084 we get the intended number of 19 swords. As stated previously Imu propably used her own sword to cut up images of Blackbeard, Luffy and Shirahoshi... this could be the 20. sword.

Besides: Now we have Imu as a scale factor: These swords seem gigantic compared to Imu, like giants where the original founders of the world government. Maybe this shows why the WG is researching gigantification so much: All the Celestial Dragon became smaller and smaller as a sign of degeneration (we see the giant genes come through again with Doflamingo a bit)

[thorny siren]

I don't think Toki time lept into the future (now 30ish years ago) by herself. Got a feeling that Lily went to the future with Toki (or somewhere near the current time line)

[wet patio]

Ooo I like this

[thin jungle]

i count 19 lemme circle them so u can see

@proud tree imma dm you the image since im not lvl10 for embeded

[glacial wigeon]

#manga message here’s the image

[graceful fulcrum]

Holy fucking shit guys, I think I'm on to something.

The world of OP works in cycles. Considering it revolves around inheritance of wills, its not a stretch to think bigger and stronger wills of the past may come back in the form of great generational cycles, which is taken as "fate".

Given the last chapter (1084), I have enough clues to believe that:

• The clash between Teach and Luffy happened in the past with JoyBoy and Imu. Imu (as blackbeard) was victorious and squirmed his way up the government ladder to keep him safe and perverting the entire system while making him king of the world.
• Imu is Lili and possibly an ancient weapon herself. Being immortal prevents (or maybe it doesnt prevent) a new weapon from being born 800 years later. Which would be Vivi.
• The cycle is happening again and I have evidence: Roger being "too soon", Shanks saying its finally time, Luffy awakening as JoyBoy, Shirahoshi being the new Poseidon.
• The people that seem to be "in the know" of this 800 year cycle are on the fucking move to either get a piece of the pie or prevent casualties.

I could go on but I dont think I'm hallucinating here. I might be on to something.

[modest skiff]

My perspective on this dynamic: Many things in the OP world are based on the orbits of planets. One interesting thing is that Agua Laguna occurs every year from the tides shifting. On Earth, the tides shift similar to Agua Laguna depending on the moon's cycle. But since Agua Laguna happens every year, that would mean a year on the One Piece planet is measured by a rotation of the moon, rather than a full rotation around the sun.

Let's say planet A has a rotation every 200 years
Let's say planet B has a rotation every 300 years
Let's say planet C has a rotation every 400 years

That would mean they all line up every 800 years. Maybe the reason Roger was too early was the One Piece planet was too far away from something (I think the sun, since I think the planet has an elliptical orbit).

[graceful fulcrum]

that one has thematic relevance if we factor in the names of the ancient weapons

[modest skiff]

yeah exactly

[pure raven]

Am I the only person thinking that Imu is queen lily and something took over her body?

[obsidian yoke]

I'm thinking that she had the op op fruit and is the one who made Imu imortal

[graceful fulcrum]

Lili could still be anything, but she being Imu would have a great impact

[mild spire]

did someone find a connection ryleigh==cobra yet ?

[graceful fulcrum]

why reyleigh?

[mild spire]

they have a similar face 😄

[proud tree]

the talking of Cycles has brought me to an interesting calculation: The reverie consists of 50 monarchs and takes place every 4 years, where the position of chairman rotates. That means a country comes to the chairman position every 200 years. The reverie in chapter 908 is therefore at most the 200th reverie since the beginning of World Governments reign (800 years ago) and the nation that is chairman is chairman for the 4th time (Ballywoods Nation), all others have only been chairman 3 times (including the kingdom of Arabasta).

[brave quiver]

I guess that means Luffy Looted Laws Sword And Kidds Coag

[sage pond]

good thing its break week tbh, i want to be fed with lili theories this week

[south minnow]

I dont think so.

Lili and vivi paralell seem to parallel alot

Lili most likely joined joyboy and vivi luffy that's why he had their wanted posters cuz of the resemblance?

Vivi dissapeared after leaving Marijois same as Lili dissapearing and never coming back.

[mild spire]

why is oda repeating so much infront of our eyes ?

[south minnow]

Man loves his parallels, that's why I always felt vivi was the real last member of the crew and not Yamato. He had alway intended to bring her back

[dark quail]

the WHOLE STORY is about the history ECHOEING through ttime, echoes are the same thing, frankly its masterful

[mild spire]

that means vivi will create a kingdom with wapol like lili created amazon lili ?

[thin jungle]

i think i have a pretty solid theory on im's longevity gotta wait tho for my reddit post to be approved

[south minnow]

I'm sure there is a great reason for the name being amazon Lili, obviously can't be a coincidence at this point. I dunno about wapol though lol

[mild spire]

also question is who rules alabasta now lol.
When lili left, it was her younger brother?
who is it now ?

[gloomy finch]

does the spelling of lili vs lily matter?

[sweet cliff]

depends, we saw how oda went from raftel to laugh tale eventually

[south minnow]

@mild spire I think it's not past the WG to have had a maidden infiltrate alabasta and have a secret love child and extract them waiting to the day they can get rid of both cobra and vivi since it's their family that refused to join Marojis. It would be the best way to retain all kingdoms then.
If you look at Lucci and cobra they pretty much have all the identical facial features and hair features.
He had them all meet at the reverie the first time during charolss attempt to grab Shirahoshi.

[sweet cliff]

i think theyre different, but thats what im assuming and fits what i theorise

[modest skiff]

Well keep in mind the name started out in Japanese, so its hard to say. But also this channel is intended for in depth theories like the ones in the pins. So please try to ask questions like this in the other manga channels

[sweet cliff]

I do think Vivi might not know of the letter yet and has to venture back to Alabasta (under disguise because her wherabouts are unknown) and finds + releases what the letter says to the public since she's with morgans

If Vivi never asked Luffy what the D meant in his name, that might indicate that she mightve not read the said letter yet as she would also be curious of what it means if thats how Cobra felt after reading the letter?

[south minnow]

I think maybe Lili and Joyboys crew had a similar moment with Vivi and the strawhats when they threw up their arms and had X but this time with Lili it was the D

[mild spire]

i couldn't realise that it was a real thought at first xD
Do you think Lucci knows that he is a Nefertari then ? He seems fully committed to the Celestial-Dragon Mindset. So he would bind the Kingdom to the WG ?
Or could it be that he doesn't know of his bond and was raised as an "orphan" as a potential agent?
It would be cool if oda would pull a moral-shift from a CD-Mindset Henchman to a resocialized "normal" human. I mean we can see that oda makes lucci kinda buddy buddy with luffy in egghead.

[rare mesa]

I don't think Lili is Imu. The letter that Cobra mentions must have been a letter from Lili saying that the Nefertaris are Ds and that they should keep it a secret. Imu previously stabbed through photos of Vivi, Teach, and Luffy, and now we know they're all Ds.

Ds are god's natural enemy

[mild spire]

that means Sai is not a D because he asked for permission of Mjosgard to attack charlos ?

[hallow pewter]

9*+-------

[rare mesa]

What does that have to do with anything? And why would you even think Sai is a D?

[hallow pewter]

Sorry, my cat typed this, but I think she has a good point.

[rare mesa]

I'm starting to think that the Ds are those who fought against the creation of the WG, passing on the initial so they can one day come together to topple it. Basically a rebel faction now, but allies of Joy Boy and the Ancient Kingdom in the past.

[grand walrus]

can we dig up old posts here? does this post make more sense with recent findings?

[rare mesa]

If Imu is Nefertari Lili, then why would the reveal of the letter be significant?

[south minnow]

I mean queen Nerferrtari and IMhotep were a real thing in Egypt times, why not

[mild spire]

i had a quick thought of only Ds being the ones who dare to attack CDs and being their enemies but then i realised that Neptune etc. also wanted to attack CDs.

[minor leaf]

I feel Lili was brainwashed and was made into Imu (considering the technology at that time) and I think she knew something like that was going to happen so she hid some clue in all over the Alabasta and after seeing vivi she was good in making people follow her (maybe Lili had same aura) like the D's and they (celestial dragon) thought that she might be too good to be killed and so they brainwashed her and made her rule the world with her quick witnesses and strategies

[rare mesa]

Ok, but wouldn't Imu/Lili have realized what happened at some point then?

[grand walrus]

it would be cool if imu is lilly but would it also be possible for lilly to have done something back then with imu, so imu and lilly have a history?

[rare mesa]

I think Imu killed Lili.

[minor leaf]

The technology is just that strong and even if imu did I don't think she would have been able to do anything

[rare mesa]

Lili was a sympathizer of the ancient kingdom which was wiped out by the WG. Imu probably figured this out and killed her.

[grand walrus]

idunno, its hard to say, its just weird that all signs point to lilly being a good guy

[rare mesa]

We know that Imu wants to kill Vivi, and Imu probably kills Cobra next chapter, so Imu has a history of killing/wanting to kill Nefertaris.

[brazen finch]

Someone posted a historical image about Lili , anyone saved it?

[leaden mountain]

So Oda is implying who Imu actually is?

[ashen surge]

No

[rare mesa]

Imu may have gotten Uranus by killing Lili and taking it.

Imu might not be a celestial dragon. Imu could be the ringleader of the plan to destroy the ancient kingdom and create the WG.

[minor leaf]

That is a possibility but if we think Alabasta is quite large of a country and their queen to go missing might be quite suspicious so I don't think they killed her.....
Arabasta arc was in main story and not a filter one and if we see it doesn't even have something reliable to laugh tale not even a road poneglyph except luffy defeating crocodile so I think it's the family which is some how connected to the imu

[rare mesa]

Arabasta had the poneglyph with the location of Pluton. Kind of a big deal. Lili would have known about this.

[mild spire]

hmm. not sure. im looking forward to king lucci reveal

[minor leaf]

Well that's true but then every other island with poneglyph should be in main arc because history of 800 years old is written on them

[rare mesa]

Well yeah, Robin needs to read all of them.

[celest fulcrum]

Does lili have a last name?

[rare mesa]

Nefertari

[minor leaf]

Nefertari

[celest fulcrum]

Thank you guys!

[topaz walrus]

imu is lili

[pure raven]

they said that D was a name penned by the queen

[kindred glen]

Maybe they were old friends

[lone steeple]

So Cobra points out that there are only 19 swords in place, yet when we first observe the empty throne all 20 were there

[thin jungle]

i have a whole theory set up for tomorrow when i can finally post on discord

[thin jungle]

nah there were 19

[solemn briar]

I think imu brought one to stab Cobra with it

In the latest chapter, the 20th sword was not in the garden, which implies that imu took it to stab Cobra with it

Why is this 1 minute cool down

[steady prism]

!theories Because this channel's for long theories like the ones pinned. Please consider taking this discussion to #manga or #manga-serious

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

@lone steeple ^

[lone steeple]

So yes, I'm also banking on Imu decided to kill Cobra with the sword that represents their family line. I'm also banking on Imu not being Lily, and Lily having something to do with Amazon Lily. The entire theme of Amazon Lily is snakes, which coincidentally also shares the same imagery from Shandora. Also very coincidentally King Cobra would be her present day relative.

[steady prism]

It's an interesting thought but like I said, this channel's for long in-depth theories like the ones pinned. You need to provide a good amount of evidence/reasoning for it to be considered a theory. From what I can tell, there are three premises you've established:

1. Imu kills Cobra: Other than the poetic nature of it, do you have any evidece/reasoning for why Imu would dirty their hands and kill Cobra themselves? This is a fairly big claim.
2. Lily is related to other snake themes: this one's fine on its own since you've tied in Amazon Lily and Shandora. You could expand on it too if you wanted.
3. King Cobra is someone's relative: Again, what's the evidence/reasoning for that? Is this referring to Imu or Boa? How are they related?

Please elaborate and provide the necessary details to make your theory more concrete or feel free to take this to #manga-serious where things are less strict there.

[steady prism]

Since this channel’s for long theories with evidence/reasoning (like the ones pinned), please take this short thought to #manga or #manga-serious

[steady prism]

Since this is more of a question than a theory, please use #manga-serious

[steady prism]

!theories @royal spruce #manga

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[crimson cliff]

Idk if this has been mentioned or out out here but I believe Blackbeard and Luffy are opposites.
When luffy had his devil fruit revealed it was mentioned that it was almost as Luffy wasn’t there anymore but someone else. His fruit was speculated to be an odd paramecia bc it didn’t act like one.
Blackbeard has already been referred to as them or they when Luffy encountered him at the bar where he fought bellamy. Blackbeard’s fruit has been referenced to be a logia but doesn’t act like a normal logia.
This also leads to seeing Luffys fruit mentioned as the sun god or nika where as Blackbeard’s could be the moon as they seem to be opposites throughout One Piece.
Apologies for the lack luster organization.

[lunar imp]

i have a theory, that i think imu is immortal because of the op-op fruit, maybe some past user of that devil fruit mught have made imu immortal

[wintry osprey]

How perceptive 🤦‍♀️

[lunar imp]

its a good theory r8??

[wintry osprey]

No

[lunar imp]

why lol

[bitter tulip]

the sword that was shown in the garden stabbing the picture of shirahoshi and other characters is the missing sword that should be next to the throne, the sword of alabasta kingdom and that could imply that imu had some sort of relationship with lily or IS lily.

[main pendant]

Crocodile was in Alabasta for Pluton, which was confirmed to be there, or originated there. He claimed "one shot of it can vaporize an entire island into smithereens."

We know Queen Lili of Alabasta was one of the original 20, but didn't stay. There are 19 swords there, but... Imu has a sword in her(?) chambers, wedged blade-first into the ground like the other swords in front of the throne. I bet that's Lili's sword because Lili didn't make it home. Since Lili is from Alabasta, and Pluton can vaporize an island... and it's likely that Pluton was what destroyed Lulusia, then that means it's still around/active.

I wonder if

A. Imu took Lili's Pluton powers

B. Imu IS Lili, and IS Pluton/has Pluton's powers.

Not sure how Imu is immortal either way. Maybe the ope ope fruit. Who knows. I just thought the sword in Imu's chambers had to have been Lili's sword.

[bitter tulip]

We think alike lol

[main pendant]

🇼

[heady lichen]

Nefertari Lili could be a reference to Lilith. Lilith ran away from Adam and the Holy Land for errr... specific reasons. God sent 3 of his angels to retrieve her, which could be the 3 Gorosei that showed a reaction in the chapter. Nefertari Lili could've been a light extinguished by God (Imu) if she does not turn out to be Imu herself. Just food for thought there.

[bitter tulip]

Thing about pluton being from alabasta is interesting but I doupt since I believe they used ancient weapons to win the war in the void century

[boreal skiff]

Wasn't pluton confirmed to be in wano?

[arctic pumice]

never

[unkempt cove]

I think the D is the last name of lily, and all of their descendants carried it on

[dark quail]

what lol, yes, sukiyaki said so

I think D refers to the ancient Chinese symbol for the moon, its not a word, its a whole ass kanji

[unkempt cove]

So maybe lily is the emperor of the moon and she lives in her reign

[mild spire]

so are the inhabitants of the Holy Land, the ones of the Garden of Eden? Doesn't sound right. Holy Land != Garden of Eden.
Holy Land is most likely Jerusalem because it is the only region on earth with that epithet.

[heady lichen]

I didn't mean Holy Land as like a title of somewhere on earth I just didnt know what to call the place where Lilith and Adam were stationed

[warm oak]

I thought D stood for Dawn. There are symbolic parellels like Luffy's fruit is Sun God Nika. Romance Dawn.

[candid moon]

so i heard the big 3 fights atm are all being animated by different companies, I even heard luffys fight will be animated by disney, is there any confirmation on this?

[pale sable]

ok you got me there

[pure raven]

How is this the right channel for that

I’m shook by how hard reading channel descriptions and rules is for some istg

[pale sable]

lilli from alabasta and apology letter from joyboy to mermaid they are all princess does that makes imu a women too right

and they are all connected with ancient weapon shirahoshi and now some people are saying lilli so vivi is also an ancient weapon so is imu

[pale sable]

so maybe they are really good friends so my basic theory is that letter from joyboy the promise he made to mermaid princess that
he will save lilli from imu but he couldn't SO HE APOLOGISED TO MERMAID PRINCESS

[hallow pewter]

Yes it was. By the poneglyph and by Sukiyaki

[hallow pewter]

I like your reasoning, but let me add a few thoughts.

Pluton was Lili's ship. It was originally from Alabasta, but, like her, never made it back. Lili knew the new WG would attack her country for Pluton, so she hid in another place: Wano. Once there she made an alliance with the Kosuki Clan to make the poneglyphs and spread the truth. She docked Pluton deep inside the Volcano, where it would never be found.

[hallow pewter]

I just can't fit Joyboy into this...

[thin jungle]

i made a small theory about Im's longevity : https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/13kyfca/ims_longevity_theory_ch_1084_spoilers/

[earnest glen]

[Void Century - Mary Geoise theory]
Interesting detail that seems to overlooked from Cobra's explanation: at first we thought that Nefertari monarch never made it to Mary Geoise, but it was the other way around, she never made it back home, even when she never intended to be a Celestial Dragon. That would imply that she was present there for something else:

1. Maybe the original Reverie of 20 kingdom was held in Mary Geoise, and she was invited after Joyboy was defeated to create the WG and Celestials, before she voiced her disagreement and going back home, or

2. The more interesting explanation: the decisive battle in Void Century that took down Joyboy took place in Mary Geoise, and she was present as part of the 20 kingdom alliance. It could be that she didn't know they would betray Joyboy there, and after the alliance was victorious, for some reason Imu (I'm assuming she was part of the alliance 800 years ago) didn't want any of the original monarchs to return to their homeland country. Lily refused, but Imu prevented her journey home anyway

There's a lot of interesting questions that could be derived from this, such as:

1. What did Lily saw in Mary Geoise that made her refused the invitation to become Celestials? We know she's part of the alliance that took down Joyboy. Also Arabasta was never attacked by the WG, so the problem lies within Lily herself and not the entire Nefertari family. Also it's implied that her letters to her brother were about the D clan, even though it's not in detail obviously.

2. Why did Imu invite the original 20 monarchs to become Celestial Dragons? I'm suspecting that the complete set of Celestial bloodline is needed at Mary Geoise, for some reason. We still never saw the full area of Mary Geoise, so something sinister might still happening there under everyone's nose.

3. Mary Geoise location might explain the ancient robot that climb the Red Line, it's a remnant of the ancient battle that took place at that very spot. Also Joyboy's plan before he was betrayed might have something to do with Sunlight Tree Eve (Sun God Nika?), because it's also the spot of Fishman Island. The Lunarians might be the gods that live there before they too, lost the battle after taking Joyboy's side and were massacred to make way for Pangea Castle

[thin jungle]

that theory doesnt necessarily mark Lili as evil. perhaps she's pursuing her own goals and she needs to live for a long time to achieve that goal

[mild spire]

you dont know that law changed personalities in punk hazard ?

[thin jungle]

i do ?

[mild spire]

and why are you asking the question in your theory?
"Could this mean that the fruit has the ability to transfer one's personality into another person?"

[thin jungle]

idk my brain sometimes shuts off

[solar chasm]

I think Imu looks like Vivi. Cobra won't make a face or have a reaction like that if he just saw some random person sitting on the empty throne. Cobra reacted that way because he saw someone who's very familiar.

[mild spire]

law could have changed aces personality with a random marine in marineford to save ace lol.
this ability can rescue near death persons
and then extract the fruit of his original body and eat it again
reborn.
LEL

maybe imu changed a lot of bodies before

[thin jungle]

how would he see im's face when he has a veil

[ocean totem]

I mean he just found out there’s a true ruler of the world it’s not exactly weird he made a face like that

[thin jungle]

perhaps a misconception was created due to something simillar to this.
Where people thought a person is immortal even though they just switch bodies

[mild spire]

not sure because it was stated that in the pernial youth operation, the performing user dies...

The personality switch would also enable someone to inherit a kingdom or to have children of a different countries royalty while we are at it lol.
Imu could be a woman and then switch his personality with his child to continue living and looking like vivi.
sounds rly crazy if we go deep into ope ope no mi abilities and using it to full extent.

[solar chasm]

You have a point in that. But if you saw some random person with a crown climbing up there, Cobra might ask questions in his mind but will come to the conclusion that there might be a ruler in the world. It's indeed shocking to find out that there's a world ruler in One Piece, but I think that he saw something familiar, also Cobra's a quite calm man like he asked the Gorosei about the Will of D without flinching

[twilit basalt]

I just started one piece hope to see you all in wano!

[ocean totem]

Now that you mention it, the way Oda drew Cobra’s reaction does seem atypical for his style so I do think it might look similar to Vivi or someone he knows. Also I think Cobra knows he is going to die once Imu sat on the throne

[thin jungle]

Yeah it was stated that the operator dies. Thats why im wondering why we havent met any immortal chars.
because if they know that the operator dies that means that the operation has been undergone atleast
once and I dont believe that the WG would leak something this powerful ( if IM has undergone this surgery)
.That would mean that therewould've been more immortal people but we havent seen one person who's immortal yet

[mild spire]

there are theories that dr kureha is immortal
she is 141

if the WG had the power of the Ope Ope no MI and performed the immortality surgery once.. it means that the fruit was reborn somewhere else and they needed to search it again.

That means they did not stuck at using the personality switch ability only, they must have used the immortality power or the original user died of natural death.

[thin jungle]

i think the case with dr kureha is... shes a crazy old woman and since she's a really good doctor perhaps thats why she's still alive

[mild spire]

i also think the shocked face of cobra means, he saw in imu something way to similar where it became shocking. Not like he saw another face he didn't see before.
Maybe he was shocked because someone sat on the Dictator-Throne ?

The Gorosei called him/her "Great Imu" ... maybe he does not have a gender ?
Normally God has the attribute of not having human attributes of being male or female.

[thin jungle]

yeah thats what i also think. Cobra knew about the vow with the swords and the empty throne.
I think he was just shocked by the fact that the throne wasnt empty as the stories suggested

[thin jungle]

ah my question is also. Im is really small. almost like a child. and if we assume that its lili is Im my question is : why are they so small
if they are immortal and stay with the same appearance ?

or perhaps its all a bait and Im is somebody completely different and the last chapter was a red herring

[mild spire]

while there are good points basing that imu could be lily, i don't rly think oda would make it that obvios.
If we analyze imus body proportions, he may be not even human.
https://old.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/comments/irz0iq/notice_how_imus_proportions_are_similar_to_those/

Not sure if the immortality ability fixes the current state of the body like with Sugars hobi hobi no mi but if thats the case then lily must have a special proportion.

[thin jungle]

yeah it could've been that the latest chapter acts as a massive red herring and in reality its somebody completely else.
perhaps lili is already dead

[ocean totem]

I think it’s almost pointless to speculate on appearance with Oda’s silhouettes because they are often not even close

[ocean totem]

She has to be related to Imu tho, I was thinking either IMU is lili or imu took Kiki’s body

[rapid carbon]

Ok sudden thought. Lili/Lily could allude to Lilith the first wife of Adam in the Bible. And we all know about the eve Adam connection in one piece. Just wanted to share

[mild spire]

is it a silhoutte?
What we see is his cloth and not a background-, shadow image like with the Holy Knights or some uncompleted silhouttes samurais or of other sorts.

the Proportion looks very unhuman. with shoulders being placed at weird locations.

[rapid carbon]

First wife / royalty thru marriage/ “romance” D awn 🫡

[main pendant]

that is possible too

[mild spire]

then who is eve and who is adam ?

the name IMU has like no biblical connection as far as i can see.

TBH i think the entire holy land, CDs and IMU (not strictly connected to the name IMU) have biblical connections.

[steady prism]

Seems like you guys are going back and forth on Imu and various observations to help us better understand this character. I’m enjoying reading through these thoughts and directions, but I gotta ask you guys to move this to #manga-serious . This channel’s for long in-depth theories. If you have a theory on Imu or Lily and have the necessary evidence/reasoning to support it, then by all means post it here. But these shorter back-and-forths are better discussed elsewhere

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[pure raven]

I think imu is just a mixture of every pirate luffy faced who wanted to become some sort of king like pirate king, god, king of the world.

crocodile wanted ancient weapon to rule the world. Imu wanted pluton's copy.

enel believed he is most superior. A god. we have already seen that there is a god fruit. cd are considered as gods. d people are considered god's enemy. there are God's knight. fujitora said as well that wg that does the wg think itself to be god.

moria believed strong subordinates can make him pk. imu for sure have strong subordinates. you can say most of navy is working for him from ages. there are god's knights and gorosei which people consider to be strong as well. there could be more strong people

hordy was racist. he believed he was a superior being. he was ready to kill humans even if they did nothing to him. imu thinks he is superior to every being. we can see slaves in Mary Geosei as well. we have seen really cruel things like lulusia destruction, people forced to create a bridge from centuries, laws country dying cuz of a a disease which doesnt even spread like an infection, etc. imu doesnt care like hordy.

doflamingo thought manipulating people to work for him will give him the power. no one knew except a soldier about what he was plotting from ages. he also believed that whoever wins become justice. imu is manipulating the whole world. imu is the justice because imu is in power. imu probably won the war during void century as well or took over somehow by manipulation.

big mom believed if she will get giants she will become the king. we already know about how wg was trying to create giants. imu is ruling the wg.

kaido believed power is enough to take over the world. he believed only an all out war can decide the ruler. imu probably believes the same. how else would imu be ruling? he could be the current strongest infact. and we know there was a war during void century after which wg was formed which imu rules.

how will bb fit into this tho? ik that we havent seen him going down like others and we dunno about him much like others but still is there something which could be similar?

[pure raven]

oh also doflamingo and imu both probably wanted immortality. maybe imu already got it

[arctic pumice]

is crocodile being luffies mom considered joke theory or meta.

[dark quail]

If we didnt have Ivankovs interaction with 'croco-boy' then it would be meta, but sadly its a theory that plays within the rules

[steady prism]

In general, if you have in-story evidence/reasoning and put effort in presenting any theory, we’ll take it seriously here. But theories that require large amounts of headcannon and/or handwaving aren’t acceptable here because we want to be theories here to be evidence-based and not for the memes in any way.

[noble fractal]

@south minnow Please don't post one-liner theories. This is a channel for long in-depth theories, supported by evidence.

[elder smelt]

She/he look's like she's/he's from Arabasta...kind feel's like designed after the pharaoh model. But one thing is for kindaah certain Imu sama has a history with Arabasta for sure after all the character introduced with Vivi's poster besides. There's also the Chance it's actually Lily of Arabasta (immortalized maybe). And it's kindah certain that Arabasta Queen and Joyboy definitely had some connection like luffy and vivi or something else we need to note that Arabasta even had undisclosed poneglyph which accidentally found out by luffy, zoro nd chopper 🤣.everything is connected. It's not that all the hidden matter of void century is connected to Arabasta arc but majority will definitely point through Arabasta it seems.feels weird let's fucking wait nd c. C'mon GODA.

[steady prism]

• sure it's possible Imu has a relationship with Lili. But we don't know if they're related to Alabasta. Do you have any evidence besides Imu saying the words "Lili" to indicate a connection?
• Do you have any evidence indicating Lily knew Joyboy?
• Zoro found a poneglyph in a filler episode in the anime; it is not canon and never happened in the manga.

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[brave quiver]

Bro. There’s no way I got a theory from an instagram reel.. alright so the ig reel said what if Mihawk is a holy knight bc his blade has the same ancient text as the throne imu sits on, and the reason he doesn’t fight shanks anymore is bc they are both holy knights.

I was about to go against it when I got an idea. IF shanks is one of “gods knights” why would they allow him to be a knight if he grew up a pirate under Rogers ship? The only way I could make sense of that is if he had “leverage” or could offer something. Then i remember one thing. Most people have the theory of shanks being related to rocks the pirate roger teamed with garp to fight.

So think of this. What if ROCKS was one of “gods” knights and that’s why it took Roger and Garp to team up to fight against him. Making sense of him being one of rogers toughest opponents. And due to the involvement of imu, and possibly the reason garp doesn’t like speaking on that entire situation is because one he teamed with a pirate and two he learned something about the government he didn’t want to before.. the hidden hierarchy primarily meaning imu and essentially rocks/ a holy knight. Also, The defeat of rocks would be one of the most embarrassing moments for the gorosei. so imu was definitely involved due to the info of the battle being “erased”.

I don’t believe this is the case, but if there is any chance of shanks being part of the holy knights this is the only way I can see it going for now.. shanks being a sabo like character. And the gorosei accepting someone related to a knight into their hierarchy although shanks has his own way of going about things.

[slender fulcrum]

We don't know if the WG formed as a coalition against Joy Boy. As Rayleigh said, the truth is maybe not what we think. So the answer would be not really white and dark. Maybe Joy Boy fought with the Kingdoms that were fighting against the Ancient Kindgom. Kingdom ruled by an Evil D. clan like BB or Xebec which recently took power.
Joy Boy helped countries and kingdom to be free from the tyranny of the AK alongside the soon to be WG. Hence " warrior of Liberation ".
When the war was won, the WG was formed but Joy Boy was put out of comission because Imu wanted to rule and he couldn't afford a guy fighting for freedom and having a legend behind him thwart his plan. He then kept his body in his freezer and erased everything about him from history.
Joy Boy didn't have time to help the Fishman to go to the surface as the WG promised him, and Zunesha probably went on rampage hearing his nakama was betrayed and then sentenced to exile for its crimes

[ashen surge]

Why do you think the AK was a tyrannical entity yet the people who defeated it have made the history of knowing about them and about that conflict illegal with threats of genocide? Wouldn't the World Government openly talk about their heroic deeds against the REALLY EVIL KINGDOM that came before them?

[slender fulcrum]

Probably because the coalition of the soon to be WG decided to help deposit the tyran, but when the ruler of the AK decided to surrender, Imu decided to proceed and destroy everything that could threaten his plan and the future he planned. the " rush of victory " could have went into ppl's head and they decided to erase the A.K and its tech because they saw it a threat if another bad ruler would come to power.

[ashen surge]

What we know about The Ancient Kingdom:

• Futuristic, fully automated labor with theoretically infinite power sources makes physical labor obsolete

What we know about the Celestial Dragon countires:

• Relied on slavery with hard labor even before VC and for some reason wanted to defeat the Ancient Kingdom. Probably fearing that the AK's scientific progression will make kings and queens obsolete.

Why would the AK be the tyrannical one in this equation?

[slender fulcrum]

I don't see the WG inherently evil, but lead by false promise and false authority.
You have a country with a huge technological advance that is a threat and pushed its ennemy to form a coalition. This country is defeated. The D. clan thanks the WG to have deposited the tyran, but then the WG decide to wype the A.K from history nonetheless because the tech he got is too dangerous.

A.K and D. Clan are exterminated.

W.G decided to create a new order that revolve on nobody being the ultimate rule to avoid repeating what happened.

Cultural progress , landscape and such went backward as the fall of the A.K made regression in every scientific field.

Victor of the W.G are now seen as " gods " or " holy being " for having freed the world from oppression, propaganda run wild to make people understand why the A.K decided to be put down, the lack of technology make people see the W.G as their savior.

All of this went into the celestial's head who, over time, saw themselves as holy ruler that should not be questionned. The WG began to rot inside.

[earnest glen]

We know it's definitely not the case because:

1. Joy Boy penned the poneglyph to the Mermaid Princess and we know Poneglyph are artifacts of the Ancient Kingdom
2. Also Zunesha, an ally of the Minks, which also allied with Kozuki, which directly tied to the Poneglyph and Ancient Kindom alliance, knew Joy Boy
3. The current World Government desperately erase the history of D, Ancient Kingdom and Poneglyph, even go as far as shooting Clover over the name of AK
4. Donquixote family, at least, before the Void Century, discriminate the Tontatta

Also the point of my theory isn't even that, it's the location of the final battle during Void Century, which is supposed to be Mary Geoise (and not the final island Laugh Tale)

[solemn briar]

I think joyboy had a crew that failed at the end, and thus joyboy crew regretted it and called it a "betrayal" on their part

[slender fulcrum]

1. Vegapunk mentionned that A.K technology was 900 years old, so 100 years before the void century. It's easy to speculate that the A.K was defeated 900 years ago and then the 100 years after where the culling of history. It's during that time that the Poneglyph were forged and carved

[earnest glen]

Unless we believe AK appeared on a thin air, 900 years ago is supposedly when AK is mentioned in international history and 800 years ago is when they're defeated. Thus, a Void Century. The Poneglyph is carved during the Void Century because no new poneglyph were carved after

[solemn briar]

Anyone can give me tips on creating a theory?

[slender fulcrum]

https://cdn.onepiecechapters.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/op_1065_faces_016.png
There is still shades of grey. But AK existed 900 years ago

[ashen surge]

There's no knowledge of AK ever existing, the World Government doesn't run a narrative that they defeated some great evil. They shoot everyone who even thinks out loud about the Void Century. Why would they do that if they weren't actually the bad guys even then?

[slender fulcrum]

the W.G wasnt evil at its creation, or else the rulers wouldn't have pledge that no dictator would sit on a throne. Imu's influence decayed it and made it evil over time

[ashen surge]

They were kingdoms that wanted to keep their slaves. How is that not "evil?"

[solemn briar]

It is amazing note here, this passed by my mind, I was thinking about the robot being 900 years old, but then Shaka say that the whole island is 900 years old(with technology)

[slender fulcrum]

can you provide a source of this ?
Anyway , slavery, like in our world, was maybe not considered " evil " 800 years ago in their mind.

[ashen surge]

Maybe not from thin air, but I think the AK rose and fell really fast, inside the Void Century. Look at all the shit Vegapunk has achieved basically running the whole thing "alone". Imagine what an entire country with the same knowledge could achieve in 50 years.

[solemn briar]

Slavery was always evil, even in our timeline, slavery was considered evil by many people hundred of years ago
However corrupt people existed too (and corrupt power)

[earnest glen]

That's exactly what I said. That comment was to refute the idea that AK was defeated 900 years ago. International world know AK existed from 900 years ago, they're defeated 800 years ago (not 900 years ago), then the WG erase the whole century to make them seem like not existing.

[ashen surge]

I'm sure the Celestial Dragons even in the present day don't think slavery is "evil". But the story is told to us and it's our job to make our interpretation. You're probably the first reader I've seen who sincerely argues that the WG were the good guys and the AK were the bad ones and it's very interesting how you could come into that conclusion.

[slender fulcrum]

Doesnt change the fact that maybe there were promise of building something better, a new order that would respect everyone , and it backfired when corruption takes hold. Joy Boy promised the Fishman to go to the surface, but couldn't kept his promie cause the WG betrayed everything they fought for by doing the opposite

[quick phoenix]

that 1084

[solemn briar]

The only thing thing that MIGHT make your statement hold a truth if that if imu was part of joyboy crew/ side, then he betrayed him

[slender fulcrum]

I'm not saying the A.K was bad. I'm saying that it wa hijacked by an Evil D. clan member and everyone fought to reclaim it , and in the end they all were cucked by Imu's gang

[ashen surge]

Let's move this to #manga-serious

[earnest glen]

Narration dictates that it won't be that complicated. A good Ancient Kingdom who was hijacked by evil D clan who then defeated by a good alliance who then hijacked by evil Imu to defeat good Joy Boy afterwards is too complicated. Not to mention the story never separate the legacy of Joy Boy and Ancient Kingdom: their poneglyphs, the nation allied with them, the Ancient Weapons, final island Laugh Tale, D clan, those two are always treated from the same source

[ashen surge]

Yeah it's so much easier to think that the og 20 kingdoms felt threatened of Ancient Kingdom's scientific advancement even if they weren't posing as an actual threat, they started an unjustified war, defeated the AK with some insane atrocities and decided to outlaw research of that history so they wouldn't lose face. It's a government built on lies and violence and it's being upheld with lies, suppression of science and more violence.

[slender fulcrum]

Something telling me that the story is not as simple as we think

[quick phoenix]

starting to read what happened 800 years and earlier
https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Century#:~:text=of the War-,Birth of the World Government,forming the Council of Kings.

[ashen pebble]

Rayleigh was probably trynna say that The Strawhat's interpretation of the answer will be different from that of Roger pirates
Not that answer will be completely different

[earnest glen]

Exactly, Rayleigh never mention anything about good or evil. Just that: 1) They're too early, which was true since by their time Poseidon isn't born yet, 2) Even if the history is that simple, there's nothing they can do about it since it's ancient history, 3) It would be better for Straw Hats to see the entire world for themselves instead of Rayleigh dictating to them, which leads to 4) The will of Ancient Kingdom, in other words, what they attempted to do, maybe the reason why they're betrayed in the first place. Maybe there's another way.

Also Rayleigh may seems to indicate that current WG isn't entirely as evil as the original alliance who take down Joyboy, so you have to take them in mind before deciding who to defeat

[slender fulcrum]

The " too early " could be right if it mentionned only the Roger's pirate. But Ohara's scholars? Why do their interpretation of the history could've seen as " too hasty " ?

[earnest glen]

They're too eager to send expedition ships to find poneglyph worldwide, before Gorosei caught them, and that's roughly at the same time as Roger's execution. Rayleigh would suggest them to lay low for a little while

[quick phoenix]

theres is a classsic type of story thats common in this like kind of kingdom-like storyline. I dont think eichi oda is same thinking as these:

Ancient Kingdom = rulers of all kingdoms, all kingdoms is united so 1 kingdom in the past
War = civil war, so sub-kingdoms
Reason of war = possible someone killed, unfair treatments (example salves . oops Nikka nikka fruit connected )
Erasing Memory = possible theres taboo to learn the past. maybe ancient kingdom is not bad at all,
Old Kings of 20 = They want new government, or wants fair lord-ish treatment , jealous of the past kingdom they overthrow.

I hope watching and reading game of thrones/book of ice and fire and others like makes some the theories correct XD

[primal cargo]

Even if the AK was 100% good and the 20 kings had 100% evil motivations, they could have rewritten history to say that the AK was the evil one. Framing their enemies as evil is something the WG does constantly.
What's so curious about the AK is that they erased it completely rather than reframe them. What they want to keep a secret is not what they did during the war against this kingdom, it'sthe fact that the kingdom ever existed at all.

[ashen surge]

Yeah I confess that the "atrocities during the war" is my headcanon but it's pretty sure some serious shit happened like the lunarian genocide. The only reason why WG wanted to erase AK's existence has to be the fact that it was something completely different than the current system of the world and a completely antithesis to that system.

[solemn briar]

Bruh, the name of this kingdom is really another mystery that people overlook

[solemn briar]

I think the existence to such kingdom might give a lead about someone taking control of the current world (imu), which is why erasing it was necessary

[crimson pagoda]

I had a thought that lili stayed behind and Imu is her descendant. They never laid a sword down saying they wouldn’t claim the throne

[pastel osprey]

how could sabo possibly enter the throne room see imu and gerosei and still escape alive? it's a 1v6 and they can't allow what he saw to spread it doesn't make sense

[pastel osprey]

no because the message cobra talked about scared the gerosei and imu showed up he said it's from lili which means lili is not with or is imu

[solemn briar]

it is not about who versus who, it is about how imu did not sense him at all.

[pastel osprey]

no he was standing where cobra was and saw imu he said the throne wasn't empty + the message confirms imu is not lili theory because the gerosei were surprised and it could spread the meaning of D that they are trying to hide

[solemn briar]

but sabo saw imu, means sabo was there before cobra got killed

[pastel osprey]

they got lulucia just for sabo to be killed and didn't sense him when he was there?

[solemn briar]

still failed to do that, even IMU is taking L's

[iron current]

they didnt get Lulusia because Sabo was there

[pastel osprey]

no which means they can't leave him enter and leave how he pleases

[turbid trail]

Do we know sabo is currently in the throne room?

[solemn briar]

sabo is the one telling the backstory of cobra in the room, so yes.

[turbid trail]

That is not the same thing. It’s possible that cobra somehow communicates with vivi, who we know sabo saves. Cobra tells vivi about imu, vivi tells sabo about imu, imu communicates it on the phone to dragon.

[pastel osprey]

sabo knows what the message of lili was probably

[solemn briar]

vivi does not know shit about sabo

[turbid trail]

Oh wait was vivi with Morgans, right nvm

[pastel osprey]

cobra probably passed the message to her like queen lili did which she can give to gordan or luffy

[solemn briar]

that has nothing to do with sabo, now vivi mission is to get help from SH crew again, just like the first time

[pastel osprey]

yes and i'm serious if sabo hear the message than how imu let him leave? bro was 1v6 and why didn't he attack imu

[turbid trail]

But currently, sabo is not in the throne room right? Somehow he ends up there. Otherwise, jewelry Bonney is there with him too right now? Or am I crazy? I thought he saved jewelry Bonney from being noticed, last panel we saw of him

[solemn briar]

we will find out later, sabo prolly hid himself really well

[pastel osprey]

bro was under imu clothes it was so long she didn't notice

[solemn briar]

he saved bonney, then went to the room, then cobra scene happened

he went to the room because he heard the guards talking about the phantom room
he became curious, saved bonney, then went to the room

move to #manga-serious

https://tenor.com/view/kowalski-analysis-thinking-seriously-gif-12855053

[pastel osprey]

so it was that easy to spy on the worlds most powerful

[north marsh]

I just had a crazy realization. What if the people of D. clan are the one's who's wills are passed down to the devil fruits. If devil fruits are the manifestation of someone's will, isn't it plausible to say that "The Will of D." means the wills/desires of the people of D. clan that manifested in the form of devil fruit

[ivory dagger]

there was a sword in imus room, everyone thought it was rogers, but now we know that it could be lilis sword, there are 19 swords around the throne, nefertaris sword wasnt there, and somehow, the last supposed sword is in imus room? imu is lili, there is no other way to put it

[lunar talon]

but doesn't Nika predate the D clan though?

[north marsh]

i don't think so. we only know that the sun god freed slave since ancient times but it could have been after the whole void century thing. What if Joyboy's will took the form of the Nika fruit?

[lunar talon]

idk, when I think "ancient", I think before the VC

[copper frost]

This indicates that somehow Luffy is echoing the same feeling to Zunesha as Joyboy with the rhythm, so the more reasonable assumption imo might be that Joyboy possessed the Nika fruit and could do the same things that Luffy could

[pure raven]

The problem with understanding this rn is that we dont really understand devil fruits just yet, we also kinda dont know how “joyboy” works

[north marsh]

what if zunesha recognized the Will of Joyboy in Luffy because of the Nika fruit which manifested as Joyboy's will

[copper frost]

Might be so, but I'm applying Occam's Razor here, and deriving the most reasonable conclusion from the evidence that is on the page

[pure raven]

Do you know what zunesha is referring to as ‘joyboy’s rhythm’? Is it the doom dut da da? Ok yes it is.

[copper frost]

Nika is specifically held to be the model for the myth rather than Joyboy, which also implies that it's Joyboy who embodied Nika than the other way around. Nika is the mythical model of the sun god that brings smiles to faces and fights with utmost freedom, so it stands to reason that Nika predated even Joyboy

[pure raven]

I think i agree. It would make more sense for a devil fruit to date further back than 800 years, but i dont think theres enough info to say such a thing confidently.

[short lance]

hey guys, it’s me, oda’s cousin. he told me that the one piece is actually on sniper island, and the finale will be a standoff between usopp and sogeking.

[copper frost]

There's more evidence that proves my point than the contrary because a fruit that has been dubbed and modelled towards an entity that is very specifically called a god and embodies true freedom being erased from history in a time period like that only brings it into question about Joyboy having the fruit from the pages and panels that I posted specifically

[turbid trail]

Why did lily write a letter to her family then, in secret? Why does she mention the will of D? Why do the gorosei not know about this letter, considering it’s importance and them being servants to imu?

Imu is somehow involved with lily, but no way is imu lily

[chilly dagger]

Agreed. That said the easiest response to this might just be that Lily changed and eventually become more evil and regretted her descision. AKA now think of her family and past choice as a big misstake or danger and that is why the past must be erasd

if you live for 800 years or more you are bound to change ad eventually your "original life" and family ties and choices you made then would seem like choices made by another person. I mean irl many of us regret or think our past selves 5 years ago were dumb and may become kidner or worse as people so imagine hundreds of years. I dont condone or claim this as a valid reason but it is just what my brain conjures up when i see that question and think of a "well maybe" answer.

[turbid trail]

Then why does she not tell the gorosei about this mistake? Why are they surprised about the existence of the letter?

[pure raven]

Also the poneglyph to pluton is in alabasta, unless it was created post vc (im not sure)

[chilly dagger]

Well again from a "well if" pov it is possible she just hoped it would somehow never be brought up and thus best to never bring up UNLESS needed. We dont know if the gorosei are also immortal or just long lifespans but only like 100 years or something. IN that case imu would have had several generations of Gorosei and ultimately only trust herself.

anyway again i do not use this as evidence or claim Imu is Lilly as i am skeptical or think it is unlikely. I am just approaching it from a theory/hypothesis for "IF" imu was lilly, i do not clame she is or that it is a fact, i am just approaching it in a "well lets assume if" to see for reasons why it could maybe be the case.

[pure raven]

I cant say i think this is plausible. Weve seen imu wipe nations from existence and then from history for simply learning minor things about the void century. I dont think its even remotely plausible that he/she would just let a letter detailing things like this go unanswered

[chilly dagger]

And to be honest i am pessemestic in general. I think Imu being lilly would be cool/interesting plot point so i just assume it is not the case and the more "boring" or whatever one would say is possible

[turbid trail]

Ohara was annihilated for knowing the past. Robin has a 1B bounty for being able to read poneglyphs. People are murdered at the mention of the void century.

I know you’re playing devils advocate, but I don’t think lily writes this letter, becomes evil and goes “oops, I guess I’ll just let that one slide and hope it never shows up again,” given the world governments absolute view on information about D, the one piece and the VC getting out

[chilly dagger]

Agreed, that is a big "plot hole" or contradiction. I 100% see that POV and agree. But if one is to really use mental gymnastics, maybe Imu was "changed" by some means and aint the same person she was originally. Maybe imus mind was fucked up by something and they forgot it, maybe the letter or "will of d" is not what we think it is and it is somehow to their benefit. I just like to consider everything

[turbid trail]

It would have been easy enough to send in cp-0, murder the royal family, and pin it on crocodile. They’ve done much more difficult and messed up things for much less risk of info leak.

[chilly dagger]

Agreed. I guess my main point is just that there is still stuff we dont know that mgiht explain stuff that does not make sense. We ultimately cant 100% deny or confirm something when we still miss info. Maybe stuff that right now goes "yeah that makes no sense" WILL make sense later on or vice versa

[tawdry comet]

🔴 I have a slight theory that says...
that "Imu sama" is "Lily Nefertari" ... the only person who has not pledged not to sit on the throne... and the only person who has
the right to sit on it...

You may be wondering how I survived for 800 years? I will tell you that devil fruits appeared in the story that are capable of this and more, we mention the following...
Law Fruit... Toki Fruit... and Brook Fruit

As we know, it is mostly one-use fruit. Beginning with the Lao fruit, we find that its user gives his life in exchange for the life of another person, and not immortality, as some believe. If it grants immortality, an immortal person would appear in the story. Also, "Doflamingo" is aware of the power of the fruit and paid a lot to obtain it. This means that it has been used before

We come to another point. It is known that the user of any fruit, after he dies, moves his fruit to a random place in the world. And here we come to my theory, which says that after every use of the fruit,
"imo sama" searches for it and forces someone to eat it and use it on him to live as long as possible.

Unlike the black beard "Teach" , who can extract it from its owner, I insist that he searches for it every time. Because if it wasn't for this, I wouldn't have reached the hands of "Doflamingo, Corazan, and Law"

We come to another point, which is how to compel the fruit-eater to use it on "imo-sama" ... Simply put, many fruits have appeared that can control people and force them to do so. The "Otama" Fruit in Wano's Ark that enables her to control animals and all Zoan Fruit users. We also find the fruit that appeared in (chapter 117) of the manga or (episode 70 )of the anime exactly on (Little Garden Island), where the two giants "Dori and Brogy" were fighting.The owner of the fruit is Miss "Golden Week" of "Mr. 3" from the Baroque Organization.

Also, do not forget that there is a great similarity in Devil Fruits.
Like "Akainu" lava fruit and "Charlotte's Oven" fruit from "Big Mom's" crew.We also find "pica" fruit From the Doflamingo crew, which enables him to dock with land and buildings. Similar to the "Douglas Bullet" fruit from the One Piece Stampede movie.👇👇
We do not talk about the strength of the users here, but rather the similarity between the fruits only😁

We cannot forget that there is a fruit that can control people under simple conditions. And let's not forget the ease of persuading weak people, such as blackmailing them with a member of their family, or using "Mister 2" fruit, which enables him to disguise himself as anyone he touches.

In the end, these remain just theories, and we do not know what is in Oda's head. I just wanted to use a little of my imagination.

And one more thing... When you copy the post, just add that it's from me #PhiloLuk

[turbid trail]

Why did lily write a letter to her family then, in secret? Why does she mention the will of D? Why do the gorosei not know about this letter, considering it’s importance and them being servants to imu?

Imu is somehow involved with lily, but no way is imu lily imo. Copied from earlier message.

[slender fulcrum]

"Atlantis"

[pure raven]

What do u think fishman island is?

[slender fulcrum]

not a sunken city , that's for sure

[muted ember]

Y'all heard about the "imu-bakko" ?

[hardy trench]

Nop

[analog sun]

!theories
Let's trash the fishman island arc trashing to other manga channels and keep this one about serious long form theories

[mild spire]

that sounds like we need more clarification on the spiritual realm to make a connection to devilfruits. The Ability of a Fruit saving a will and regrow somewhere else sounds deep.

[soft glade]

I don’t think devil fruits are related to the D clan. Cuz if they are why can anyone just eat them and gain it’s powers

[mild spire]

his thought maybe heavily connected to Destiny. Like yes anyone can it but it won't happen. Like why did shanks not eat the gomu gomu no mi while he could ? because he brought it so luffy will eat it.

[soft glade]

Tho Idk why shanks gave it to luffy, we know that the gomu gomu no mi isn’t really gomu gomu no mi it’s actually hito hito no me it’s a god fruit of some kind and gear 5 was its awakening just like how you can awaken other fruits like doffys fruit etc. tho now that I think about it maybe those “god fruits” can only work on the D clan members and if they were used by some other than the D clan gear 5 wouldn’t happen (idk if it makes sense)

So maybe shanks knew that and gave It to luffy knowing he’s from the D clan plus luffy was a child thus he can easily get manipulated

[hardy trench]

nah luffy ate it while shanks wasn't paying attention

if you wanna stretch () it a little you could say that he intended to give it to ace, but i still don't really see it in general

[soft glade]

Shanks could’ve left luffy to die when luffy got kidnapped but he cuz as we know if a devil fruit user dies it’s devil fruit can re spawn. But shanks didn’t do that he sacrificed his arm and saved luffy

[muted ember]

"According to Tokusaburo Mukuma, a teacher at the old native school in Mukawa Village, if someone says, "I hate this child," she will pat the child on the head and say, "He is a cute child," and conversely, if someone says, "He is cute," she will curse, "I hate him," and in the worst cases he will even resort to violence"

[hardy trench]

oh dang, same spelling too (in japanese obv)

the main antagonist lacking willpower could be really interesting with how important will has been throughout the series

[undone hemlock]

Why would she send a letter to alabasta ?

[exotic rivet]

Another cool something about Imu's name:

仏 in Japanese means Buddha or someone who has achieved enlightenment (It's the same word engraved on the back of Sengoku the Buddah's chair when he was fleet admiral), and Imu's name is written as イム which looks strikingly similar to 仏 except with more empty space between. I think Imu's existence may be some sort of allusion to something we don't fully know yet.

[steady prism]

!theories friendly reminder to take general Imu-related observations to #manga-serious . If you have a specific theory you'd like to propose then by all means post your evidence/reasoning. But thus far it seems like a back-and-for brainstorming session, which isn't appropriate for this channel

[lone hedge]

Please refrain from using manga-theories for joke theories, casual chit-chat, power scaling, bounty predictions or low-effort memes. This channel is for serious discussion- please read the channel description. Posts here must be in paragraph form, preferably with evidence, not just a one line open question.

[steady prism]

@mellow elm links to theories are fine here, but please provide a short summary of what this link is about and some of the evidences it uses.

[mellow elm]

https://youtu.be/Lmn29nVADkI
This theory shows the similarities between Castle in the sky and One Piece.As well as provides a little evidence of Oda using certain ideas from other storylines including Castle in the sky

[pure raven]

Theory: Lili loved joyboy and when joyboy died, she was soo heartbroken that she went on to create the "Amazon Lily" where no man can enter. Signifying that she won't love any other man other than joyboy.

Luffy came to amazon lily, because he's the new joyboy. And now the new queen of amazon lily, boa hancock is in love with luffy.

So, the will of lili may be shared by both vivi and boa hancock since we are kinda sure that vivi doesn't "love" luffy, like lili loved joyboy

[devout lagoon]

Awakenings: a deep dive of their links to death

Hey, so before we start I just want to mention that while I have the panels for all this stuff, adding them would make this post even longer than it already is. Therefore I won’t be including them on the post, but I will provide them if you ask.

TLDR for the last theory (PLEASE READ): To awaken you need the right mindset and to be strong enough. Yamato is probably awakened, jailer beasts have a false awakening, and kaido is incapable of awakening. Click here (⁠#manga-theories message) to read the whole thing, as this TLDR is very simplified.

So something that was nagging me about my theory is that if awakening is just power + mindset, how did luffy awaken so late? He theoretically should have awoken at least when he mastered ACoC (as he was stronger than Yamato, another mythical zoan that i believe to be awakened at that time). However, luffy awoke right after he was hit by kaido so hard cp0 pronounced him dead. What if for a zoan to awaken, the two requirements are different from other fruits? Having the mindset of whoever wished for the fruit and dying. This is an update to my earlier theory about awakenings. This is a very long read, but I hope you enjoy it!

We can all agree that oda is a great writer, but we can also all agree on something else: pell should have died. Well, everyone but me. Now don't get me wrong, I fully believe it was oda's original plan to have pell die. However, just look at the period that chapter (208) released and realize that it was probably a good thing that pell didn't die due to certain current events at the time. But oda decided to use this writing decision as fuel for a new plot point in the future, as look at how Pell talks about being alabasta's guardian sprit. This already gives him the right mentality needed, as the falcon is an ancient symbol of protection in alabasta. What do I think happened? Easy. He died and came back to life. Now, I looked a list of every devil fruit user that died, and you know what’s interesting? There are only 3 Zoan users were on that list, 2 confirmed dead while the other 1 is just speculation for now. The confirmed ones are Smiley from punk hazard and Orochi, and the unconfirmed one is kaido.
.

Smiley is a very straightforward case while Kaido and Orochi aren’t, so let's talk about Smiley first. Smiley is a slime/gas that was fed the Sala-Sala Fruit, Model: Axolotl. Who wants to be an Axolotl? Most likely just someone that likes them a lot. Smiley wasn’t exactly known for having a love of all things small and cute, so it’s obvious that when Smiley died it didn’t fulfill the obligations for awakening, so it just died and the fruit reincarnated. Now, let’s go to orochi. Orochi ate the snake snake fruit: model 8-headed snake. This 8-headed snake is in reference to the Japanese myth Yamata-no-Orochi, in which Susanoo (no way naruto reference) killed the 8-headed beast Orochi. All Orochi did in the story was devour young girls and drink booze. Honestly, that’s all Orochi did when he ruled wano (just substitute eating girls for devouring their livelihood). But at the end of his life, there is only one thing he cared about: killing hiyori. This was more than basic self-defense: it was a full-on obsession, with the ONLY thing he wanted being her to burn to death. When he was killed by Denjiro, he no longer had the mentality needed to awaken. I’ll talk about kaido in a bit, as I lead that into something else.

Let’s go over the zoans that have awakened. More specifically, HOW they awakened. First of all, they all had the right mentality (see #manga-theories message) if you haven’t read the first part). But they all most likely died right before awakening. In the cover story “CP9's Independent Report”, Spandam and Spandine plotted the killing of the old CP9 agents. But the next time we saw those CP9 agents, they were CP0 agents and awakened. What if the plan to kill them worked, but in death Lucci and Kaku awakened? Yamato fought kaido all the time, and kaido didn’t have gripes about using a lot of power on yamato. Maybe kaido took it too far one day and killed Yamato, but due to his desire to protect wano, yamato awakened.

Next up, Luffy. In his fight against kaido, there came a sudden turning point in kaido’s favor: luffy was killed by kaido due to the interference of CP0. Momo can no longer hear luffy’s voice anymore, and kaido also thought that luffy was dead. Now Kaido had good enough observation haki to see into the future, and basic observation haki can allow you to see the life force of people. For Kaido to agree that Luffy was dead, the life force would have to be gone. At the end of the chapter, it showed that Luffy had awakened his DF, using Gear 5 for the first time and turning into JoyBoy. As I already went over here (⁠#manga-theories message), luffy has always had the right mindset to awaken, that being a lust for absolute freedom. If just power and mindset were required, then luffy would have awoken around the time of WCI or earlier. So what I think happened is that luffy died, awoke due to the mindset factor in death, and then came back to life with the new transformation that is Gear 5.
.

Now finally, Kaido time. Kaido is a bit of a mystery, as he hasn’t awakened (read here (#manga-theories message) even though he has been a strong pirate for almost 3/4ths of his life. When we are first introduced to Kaido, he’s shown jumping off of a sky island to try and perish. Obviously, this doesn’t work, as kaido is too powerful to die from fall damage. Now this is a shot in the dark, but what if kaido is trying to awaken when he attempts to off himself. Kaido seems very knowledgeable about devil fruits, so him knowing about the mentality and death factor would make sense. How I can already hear you typing out “haha Jupiter, in your infinite wisdom you somehow forgot that kaido is an AZURE dragon. Surely he wouldn’t have the right mentality”. Of course I remember, and counter with this: Kaido is a big strong dragon that blasts fire, flies, and can just eat people. That sounds a lot like what a normal dragon would do. And normal dragons are all about violence. You know what kaido does? Kill people for fun. I doubt kaido knew what an azure dragon is in comparison to a medieval dragon. Bro probably thought that azure meant “long” or something like that. Basically what I’m trying to say is that kaido may have thought that he had the right mindset (that of a big dragon) even though he didn’t. That’s why he was trying to off himself: he was trying to trigger the death needed for awakening.
.
Now as stated in that link above, kaido’s is an azure dragon, which is a guardian deity. What’s funny is that in reference to kaido and momo, I’ve only found two panels where they are called guardian deities. The first one is where Kiku says that Kaido is celebrated as the Guardian Deity of Wano. But we later see that exact same celebration where people wish for Kaido to be gone. This shows that while Kaido is a guardian Deity in name, he isn’t in actions. To contrast this, Momo is called a guardian deity by luffy at egghead. Momo is an actual protector of wano, willing to risk his life fighting yonkos, admirals, and lift onigashima. But as shown in the greenbull fight, Momo just isn’t strong enough yet. Momo’s entire character arc is about becoming strong enough to protect wano, and right now he’s not. He wasn’t able to do much against Greenbull on his own. That’s why I think momo will fall in battle protecting someone/something, awakening in the process. Not powerscaling, but momo has been set up to surpass oden in my opinion (son of oden, wields one of his swords, same body type, set up to be a conqueror (had the willpower to actually fight kaido himself), given the fruit of kaido, etc), so having a fruit more powerful than kaido’s makes sense to me.
.

TLDR: zoan awakenings are caused when a user with the correct mentality dies. This explains how Luffy, Lucci, Kaku, and Yamato are awakened. That also explains how Smiley, Orochi, and (potentially) kaido (he isn’t confirmed dead) didn’t. Dying with the right mentality also would explain how Momo will awaken.

Now that I’m at the end of my theory, I’d like to thank you for reading this. A special thanks to @steady prism for helping me out on the first part, which obviously heavily inspired this theory (duh, this one is literally a sequel). A MASSIVE thanks to @modest skiff for bouncing around some ideas with me. A shoutout to @desert latch for not reading any of this and disagreeing anyways :) and to @twilit kindle for believing in my cooking. If you have any feedback, questions, criticism, or just think I’m wrong please let me know. I'm probably wrong about at least something cuz i keep it . My next long-form theory will probably revolve around a certain blonde hair ladies man and his latent conquerors haki 👀

[candid stratus]

this makes quite a lot of sense, if I can add some reasoning as to how death could be the trigger for Zoans alone. We know that they have a sort of "soul" of their own. In death as the users soul is fading away, the one of the zoan momentarily takes over the body keeping it alive and if the original soul has an aligned mentality they sort of mesh and the original soul is brought back, now being more in tune with the df and awakening their full powers in the process but still remaining themselves it's not like they are possessed or whatever.
Which is how the jail beasts differ. Because it was forced (I don't know exactly how), the df's soul didn't momentarily take over the body but that meshing was somehow forced and they end up being just wild beasts with some semblance of a human mind.

[devout lagoon]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I think happened to cause the jailer beasts. Idk if you read the first theory that I had linked, but they seem to be a lot like chopper’s monster point, which is caused by a drug. Maybe vegapunk made a really potent drug that could force a zoan awakening? But due to that forced nature of them, the user lost their mind as they didn’t have the right mindset

Also if zoans took over the body of the user, then that would explain why kaido asked a gear 5 luffy who exactly he was. Maybe Kaido thought that luffy’s body was being controlled by nika/joyboy/whoever you want to think

[candid stratus]

oh that's a great frickin point, that really explains why Kaido was confused at first. Maybe there's a transitional period where it's hard to distinguish using observation haki. He later clearly knows it's Luffy so that aligns with the idea. I read your previous post now and yes I agree with it

[devout lagoon]

Honestly if kaido knows about the animal taking over the mind for zoan users (assuming that’s true which would make tons of sense) that would back up my assumption that his attempts at suicide were just to awaken

[candid stratus]

or die trying

[devout lagoon]

Well he obviously would lmao, but I doubt he knows that part (for reasons I already mentioned)

[hardy trench]

ye i think zoan awakenings potentially turning the user mindless is all but guaranteed, since even luffy couldn't take lucci seriously which let him blitz sentomaru

probably gonna have to develop control while fighting kizaru

[halcyon yacht]

How did doflamingo know Law's fruit granted someone to be immortal? Could it be someone used the fruit's power to that extent?

My theory is that the princess cobra was speaking of was an ope ope user and granted imu immortality. This is why Lily's sword is with Imu.

Imu is not Lily, Imu didn't force Lily. Imu used her words to trick Lily into thinking she had a plan for the world and how to manage things in an efficent way.

Doing this, Imu was granted immortality to rule the world goverment and the world as a whole.

Why would Imu not like luffy and the "D"? Maybe a grudge? Maybe Lily really did get used and swore that a descendant with the "D" would take Imu down. Maybe Imu is scared of the "D". Maybe she can't take the "D".

My theory is, in the final battle, Law will be there to assist luffy against Imu. Law having the ope ope powers, is not only able to give immortality, but take it away.

This may kill Law and it may not. Imu will then age fast, die, turn into dust, and be forgotten.

This is my 2nd theory! Hope you liked it!

[jagged yacht]

bb knows about surgery too also wg was paying 5billion for it so ig high ranking marines knew it had some special power too could be from encyclopaedia or maybe just legends about it which are known by many

[meager ledge]

I think Imu having immortality is definitely plausible but I wouldn't go as far to say that the immortality surgery is secret knowledge that connects all of this

[candid stratus]

at this point I would be mighty surprised if Imu hasn't had the eternal youth surgery done to them

[indigo silo]

Lili might have given Imu immortality. But I personally think that she traveled the world first.
It looks like it was Lili that gave several families across the world the will of D right. So I think she should have at least travel the world first to pass on her will to families or groups who would resist world government

[desert latch]

Glad to be a part of this 🙏

I actually read it and it's a very interesting theory indeed

[pure raven]

This is crazy good and amazing but, can I argue Orochi awakened when his first head was cut off and cheated death there, being unable to reincarnate again?

[novel cypress]

I agree with this to am extent, because I also believe that Luffy's mom was in line for being an Empress of Amazon Lily herself.

[spiral wave]

@stoic coyote@pure raven how can i send pics? my theory is photos

[pastel osprey]

you need lvl 10 go to https://discord.com/channels/164970986284777473/180728779365154816 type !rank

[spiral wave]

ty

[pastel osprey]

no probs

[devout lagoon]

The problem with this that as I went over in the first theory (and forgot to mention in the second one haha), zoan awakenings have an identifying trait in their clouds around their neck. That’s what started my fascination with awakenings (yamato having the clouds). Here (#manga-theories message) is my arguments for why Yamato is awakened and here (#manga-theories message) is my explanation for why the jailer beasts don’t have those clouds