#creator_dlc_discussion

1 messages · Page 17 of 1

graceful willow
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What would prevent BI paying the gamemode dev directly in that case?

random crane
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well is there a free alternative to arma? no

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is there a free alternative to most popular gamemodes? yes

graceful willow
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I... don't know where to start from

karmic harness
dusk cargo
graceful willow
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And Arma has potential to be the platform where new gamemodes are created instead of being one where they're just being copied

random crane
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making a full faction requires a lot of work from people with very different skillsets and takes multiple years of work, gm was in development 5 years before release to make an example

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how many gamemodes have that long a development cycle before they're ready to ship? probably not many

graceful willow
random crane
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or arma clone?

graceful willow
karmic harness
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how many gamemodes have that long a development cycle before they're ready to ship? probably not many
Tbh I'd say at least 2 years. Maybe more

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Speaking from how I've watched Tactical Battlefield being developed and helping developing Frontline, myself

random crane
dusk cargo
graceful willow
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Sure, making an engine is technically harder, but what about the creative aspect? If it was easy, why do we see so many bad games being made and big studios essentially not innovating at all?

random crane
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cause they're risk adverse, why invest millions in something you dont know how well it could perform when you have this proven solution?

graceful willow
random crane
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yea, and once you do every other game company in a span of 1 year will have a clone

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and someone from the community will likely end up providing a free alternative

dusk cargo
random crane
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cause its much harder, and requires several different skillsets

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i know top notch programmers who go in tilt when they try to encode vehicles or something similar

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and they most likely cant make the art themselves

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plus the animations

olive vortex
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and I know top notch modelers that can barely write a script 😄

random crane
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indeed

dusk cargo
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It's hard to say what is harder, make a game mode which takes 1-2 years to do for a programmer OR to make a model of a vehicle and encode it. These are different skill sets as you said yourself.

random crane
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yes but in that case you have a programmer that can handle 99% of the job

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bar maybe some minor art bits for idk, icons and UI and all that

graceful willow
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Well, let's approach the situation differently. What if we had a "talent program" where BI would guarantee that if the gamemode developed by the participants would be popular enough, they would pay a share of the profits to the developer?

random crane
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and in the other example you need someone to make the model, texture, then the animations for the characters, the animations for the object, the sounds (?), the encoding, and probably whatever extra programming is needed

dusk cargo
random crane
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that its much harder to make models (by virtue of requiring such different skills), and much easier to protect the relative IP

olive vortex
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if you would want to create a gamemode worthy of people paying money for it you will also most likely need a programmer or multiple programmers with different skills.

random crane
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fair

olive vortex
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As most likely you will not have single guy able to manage UI logic, backend logic, probably AI behaviour... etc.

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"programming" is not single skill that takes care of everthing.

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Especially if you want to deliver high quality, maintainable product.

dusk cargo
# random crane that its much harder to make models (by virtue of requiring such different skill...

The question of how hard it is to protect code IP VS 3D art does not come from the fact that it's just harder to make art for the game, but from the fact that it's easier to compare the result.

If it's harder to make models than game modes, doesn't mean that the idea of licencing game modes makes no sense, it can only mean that a game mode with equal amount of man-hours might cost different because programmer's work costs different than work of a 3d artist (and I don't really know who is payed more)

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.
And the fact that it's easier to protect art than code, yes, in current situation with arma it is like this. But I don't think that it's theoretically impossible to protect it. 🙂

random crane
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of course, but if i have to pay some 100 or 200k € in development for a game mode i want my money's worth, for companies it's not just an exercise in creativity but about generating revenues that keep the company afloat

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if you cant protect your investment whats the point?

dusk cargo
random crane
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yes, and if my grandmother had wheels she would've been a bicycle

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but neither of those are true

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and even if code was protected, one could still make its clone lookalike that is functionally very similar

dusk cargo
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it's not even close to remaking a 3D model from drawings and pictures... it's closer to remaking a jet airplane if it's your first time when you see a jet airplane

graceful willow
random crane
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10 messages above

graceful willow
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Did you reply to Sparker or me?

random crane
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to you

graceful willow
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I mean devs that would be paid directly by BI

random crane
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you asked a question for which the answer i gave 10 messages prior

dusk cargo
steady nest
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Kydoimos and Sarge I understand went on to work for Bohemia Interactive more directly -- for example, Sarge as a quest designer on Old Man: https://dev.arma3.com/post/oprep-old-man -- while Saul would be part of Jets DLC development (see the nod to the 3rd-place-winning addon), and of course RHS has stuck around... and the name PLAYERUNKNOWN speaks for itself now doesn't it

Arma 3
OPREP - OLD MAN | Dev Hub | Arma 3

Discussing the lessons learned from developing the Arma 3 Apex: Old Man scenario.

dusk cargo
steady nest
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Yes, I saw this discussion... no CDLC exclusively of game modes

random crane
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you also have to consider all the other participants who didnt win too

steady nest
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Ooooooooh yeah

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I still remember the one who repeatedly asked-for-or-demanded on the forums an explanation from BI for why their Singleplayer entry didn't place

random crane
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on top of this i suspect none of the winners really became millionaires after winning

steady nest
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Yup, Red Hammer Studios got €200,000 for RHS AFRF/USAF, the other three categories' first-place winners each only got a quarter of that, and 2nd and 3rd-place got less... even moreso in MP game mode because 3rd-place had two winners who had a 50/50 split

steady nest
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which is quite the bar for entry

dusk cargo
steady nest
knotty ore
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No you don't. You'd get no vehicles, no normal AI etc.

knotty ore
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The success story game modes that became their own things started as free mod projects too.

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They were already concept tested at that stage.

steady nest
knotty ore
ashen geyser
# knotty ore No you don't. You'd get no vehicles, no normal AI etc.

That's a simplistic way of looking at things. As far as I understand it, DayZ runs in part RV and part enfusion. DayZ doesn't have normal AI because it doesn't need it? Also, it has vehicles. An in-house "game engine" is as limited as the devs want it to be. Anyway, I was just conmenting in the ongoing discussion, not trying to start a new one

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Honestly they should have made Project Argo with the same technology they made DayZ. It might have been more successful

graceful willow
knotty ore
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they probably could. but that would mean wasted money

red saddle
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I have no say in any CDLC matters, I'm not involved in that.
Only relation I have with that is that I'm A3 Programmer and the CDLCs are A3 too

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And how do you want to protect that if people can just buy it once, and then share the ebo with anyone to run it?
And servers who get the files for free anyway? How do you imagine that to work...

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Thats wrong. No idea where you scooped that info from 😄

red saddle
dusk cargo
dusk cargo
dusk cargo
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if it's not done in current game (because someone thought there isn't any need for it) doesn't mean that all this is theoretically impossible to do, right?
the protection for DLC vehicles and weapons was also added at some point.

ashen geyser
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Yeah, I wouldn't buy a gamemode tbh

dusk cargo
ashen geyser
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Nope

dusk cargo
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0.5 ?

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why?

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well if you like it then why not

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would you buy vehicles and weapons then?

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before you say anything, consider that it was pointed out here several times by other game mode makers that game mode development takes 1-2 years generally, just like it takes lots of time to make vehicles and maps and weapons

ashen geyser
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There's plenty of game modes already

red saddle
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But mission files are basically not protectable

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Maybe query steam to see if player owns the DLC and then decrypt it?
Servers need access without owning it

dusk cargo
red saddle
dusk cargo
graceful willow
red saddle
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That would get expensive quick.
Keep in mind players have thousands of hours of playtime for a game that can be as cheap as 8€

graceful willow
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But given that the largest commercial successes have stemmed from MP gamemodes, there'd be a good chance that it'd pay itself back quickly

ashen geyser
dusk cargo
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we are talking about big things instead of smaller missions liketacops

ashen geyser
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It's much more than a game mode, it's a total conversion

dusk cargo
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🤷

ashen geyser
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It turns a military sandbox into a zombie survival

dusk cargo
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anyway I think if priced properly it can be sold good

dusk cargo
ashen geyser
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Game modes are specifically to be played online. If I have reasons to believe I won't be able to find servers to play it, I won't buy it. Simple. Other ppl will think the same way. You're better off making some new assets centered around your desired gamemode, and then market them together, with the gamemode itself being free. Like SOG

ebon sedge
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And also as has been mentioned the consideration of wether other people will be necessary to play it and also be playing it

ashen geyser
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And there's Dedmen's point of how easily someone could reproduce it for free

ebon sedge
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if I buy GlobMob or S.O.G. now I could play it now, or in 35 years when arma 5 might be out, but if I buy a multiplayer gamemode now its very uncertain how long I'll be able to actually play that

ashen geyser
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That's a very good point

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Even Tac-Ops is better in that regard, since they're singleplayer missions that can be replayed for a while.

ebon sedge
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Yeah

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also I'm personally not sure if I like the idea of arma cdlcs going into that sorta micro-transactiony area

dusk cargo
ashen geyser
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Not really

dusk cargo
dusk cargo
# ashen geyser Not really

yeah I have lots of people saying they are not going to buy GM or PF because noone is going to play it in MP anyway

ashen geyser
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Dedmen already told you it's not possible to protect mission files

dusk cargo
red saddle
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or PF because noone is going to play it in MP anyway
Heh if they only knew that mike force servers are basically full every weekend 😄

ashen geyser
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Good for them, but I could still play SOG or GM by myself 30 years from now

dusk cargo
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was it impossible to drm vehicles before as well? yes I think so?

dusk cargo
ashen geyser
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SOG was really well marketed, and ppl were very interested in the setting and assets shown. No wonder ppl are playing it and its game modes

red saddle
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Every way I can think of on how to DRM a game mode, can be so easily circumvented that it's not worth the effort

ashen geyser
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Heck, SOG put Arma 3 back on the map. It almost felt like a new title release

dusk cargo
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from my understanding it will require a good rewrite of the sqf vm to support DRMd code

red saddle
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lol k

steady gale
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you're basically asking for someone to write new engine functionality for something only you want

dusk cargo
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not only me

ebon sedge
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*only few people want
FTFY

dusk cargo
red saddle
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The one or two people who'd come up with a completely new, successful game mode that would get approved as a CDLC

dusk cargo
red saddle
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Make something, provide a prototype to impress the CDLC council enough to approve of it, and when they ask what DRM options we have, i will tell them and they will decide if that's sufficient.

I don't believe that will happen.

ebon sedge
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the CDLC council
heh

dusk cargo
red saddle
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We should invest money and time into something that's probably not gonna work anyway, just to have a small chance that maybe someone will apply to make a gamemode CDLC with also a small chance that it will be good/promising enough to make a CDLC?

dusk cargo
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Anyway I get it that protecting code wasn't considered from start so it might be hard to add it now. So maybe for other project it could be easier.
There is no conceptual reason why a game mode CDLC makes less sense than those faction type CDLCs.

These discussions take too much effort and I am pretty tired, I'll leave for now.

knotty ore
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if concept is good enough and possibly a poc version can be provided to explain some features or how the game mode would work then perhaps they would reconsider. It would have to be very good presentation though since the stance now is against such idea

fresh oasis
steady nest
long sail
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Would like to see several tanks added in GM.

-Kanonenjagdpanzer
-Raketenjagdpanzer
-Kampfpanzer 70/MBT 70

somber imp
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Go to the GM Discord and ask there

rancid aurora
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Is it possible to access the Escape mission for Prairie Fire yet? Was looking to add trackers or something of that sort to increase the difficulty

modern solar
rancid aurora
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for sure man, was thinking that trackers and more naval assets for CSAT would ramp up the fun. I'll make sure to note that down

modern solar
rancid aurora
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Created a task in the feedback tracker. Let me know if you can see it, my handle name is jalong13

steady nest
rancid aurora
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lol, my bad, I ment to say OPFOR. But it would be interesting to port it to altis

steady nest
valid knot
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As for for blufor, maybe Patrol vessels. idk

crystal otter
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@rancid aurora Capitaine Haddock friend!!!!
#fly-away

modern solar
rancid aurora
rancid aurora
# valid knot As for for blufor, maybe Patrol vessels. idk

The real problem right now with the escape mission is that once the players get into the escape boat, there is no more challenge and it is just a few minutes of driving to the border. With the use of the North Vietnamese PT boats, the players can utilize the escape boat

valid knot
rancid aurora
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that's why they would be patrolling their harbors

steady nest
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Are you looking for evade the PT boats and bypass them, or 'outrun before contact'?

rancid aurora
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Evade

steady nest
# rancid aurora Evade

I gotta wonder whether this actually works on water as it does on land with unmodded PF AI...

ebon sedge
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sip What does that have to do with CDLC?

hallow parrot
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Creator =/= Contact

trim oriole
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does the Phantom have countermeasures in the new CDLC?

prisma mountain
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They do not, you can add them via scripts though (although they get dispensed at the tail end)

steady nest
prisma mountain
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Eh, I will do that if they add the flare proxies correctly. 😛

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Literally requires no modification to the model, just a addition.

steady nest
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Speaking of which, I'm surprised to notice that not only does the dynamic-loadouts/Editor-placeable (scope=public;) A-143 Buzzard lack a laser designator but so does the old air-to-air Buzzard, while the old air-to-ground Buzzard has one... so in the course of writing a config-only mod for a so-called 'A-143B' or 'A-143 Plus' I decided to add the laser designator back to the dynamic-loadouts Buzzard

prisma mountain
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I think it's because it doesn't actually have a targeting pod modeled I believe.

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But I do like stuff like that, think if it's just proxies like flares, cameria, ect. Always good to toss them in just for us modders.

steady nest
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Yet they didn't omit the laser designator on the old A-143 Buzzard (CAS) with fixed air-to-ground loadout or on the A-164 and To-199

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and by that logic the lack of a targeting pod should mean that the A-143 ought not have a targeting camera at all...?

prisma mountain
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I'm pretty sure the A-164 and Typhoon both have one modeled in.

steady nest
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I'll have to take a look at them specifically then

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Speaking of which, the Gryphon specifically does have the modeled targeting pod but its camera is fixed-forward

prisma mountain
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lol

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All I know is that I want the F4 texture template so I can make a nice AAF F4 PHantom

steady nest
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As such, the A-149 Gryphon's infrared sensor detection cone is 90° wide and 60° tall, unlike the narrower cones of the base game jets which can be slewed around; at least it's longer-ranged (4 km vs. air, 3 km vs. ground) than that of the vanilla Black Wasp II

prisma mountain
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The F4?

steady nest
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No, I was referring to the basically-renamed Gripen

prisma mountain
steady nest
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I'll have to check what the base game jets have modeled before I get back to you on this

ebon sedge
prisma mountain
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I put it in their suggestions forum.

ebon sedge
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bcaThumbsUpYes Thank you!

timber cape
devout turtle
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I did set it up with functioning countermeasures, and then removed the mags and weapon before release. So modders could adopt it

raven rose
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hello, CSLA Iron Curtain when? Im waiting this since 22 september of 2020

sinful cape
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when it's done

raven rose
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its already done developers said

hallow parrot
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No...?

agile briar
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whats a good order to buy the dlcs in if you play Koth

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i dont have enough to buy all of them just want to know which ones i should be trying to buy first

knotty ore
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play koth withouit dlcs

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and if you run into gear you like to use but required dlc, buy that dlc

steady nest
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For what it's worth, you may also try out said gear in Tutorials > Virtual Arsenal and Singleplayer > Editor to help with deciding if you'd like to use it in KOTH

agile briar
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ok

steady nest
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Since this is the #creator_dlc_discussion channel... for Creator DLCs Global Mobilization - Cold War Germany and S.O.G. Prairie Fire you would have to download their respective Compatibility Data addons in the Steam Workshop (expect ~25-27 GB downloads each) if you wanted to try their assets out

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because almost all other DLC guns/gear/vehicles are included in the Arma 3 base game download... not those two, whose developers instead put them on the Steam Workshop

devout turtle
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Base dlcs are on sale today grab some of those if you need them - marksman etc

steady nest
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40 minutes from this message

nimble hatch
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armaholic is now some other language betting site, The End of an era ay, cant help but be a little sad 😢

wraith sleet
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Yeah i need Potter page to download add ons but no the workshop

knotty ore
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Workshop is the easiest place to get mods. And if you cant use it, Arma3 is in sale quite often, Id suggest picking it up on Steam when such time occures

ebon sedge
wraith sleet
ebon sedge
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Huh?

wraith sleet
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I try and i cant install mods of the workshop

ebon sedge
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^

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And non-steam versions of arma dont exist as arma is only sold on steam

wraith sleet
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I buy it

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On steam

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But i cant

ebon sedge
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as in what doesnt work/why you cant use the workshop

karmic harness
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Also remember that you have to run the launcher after the mods have been downloaded, not arma3.exe (at least once)

wraith sleet
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Yeah i can suscribe me to the mods but the dont star in the launcher

knotty ore
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have you disk space to download them?

wraith sleet
karmic harness
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You mean you don't see anything in the MODS tab, in the launcher?
What you mean by "they don't star[t]"?
Have you checked the box next to the mods?

wraith sleet
karmic harness
wraith sleet
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Ok

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I can install mod in the manual mode but no the workshop mode

ebon sedge
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Do they?

jade otter
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Steam is arma 3s DRM

knotty ore
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This server is not really place to discuss these things

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well no server is.

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please dont share such ideas eleswhere either

wraith sleet
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I buy it

naive ginkgo
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how can we add zeus to day of the rangers black hawk down mission?

hearty linden
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Are we even gonna see CSLA in 2021???

knotty ore
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50/50

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although technically we already got new pictures so CSLA has been spotted in 2021

ebon sedge
karmic harness
devout turtle
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It’s looking good

steady nest
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From today's SPOTREP:LAUNCHER Added: Support for Arma 3 Creator DLC: CSLA Iron Curtain Fixed: Preset imports not loading (optional) DLC - FT-T158740 Added: Button in the DLC tab that links to Steam Workshop CDLC compatibility data for non-owners - FT-T157714

nimble hatch
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i upgraded blender to 2.9 yesterday... the rtm import tool or alwarrens toolbox wont be detected or work? what to do? (didnt backup blender 2.8) 😿

knotty ore
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works fine on my end. did you update the plugins too?

hallow parrot
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Wrong chat, anyways

knotty ore
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true

hallow parrot
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Also you can install/downgrade Blender on Steam easily

nimble hatch
foggy ravine
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Can't wait for The Great Toyota War CDLC

gusty hemlock
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CDLC Yugoslav Wars 😌

velvet hazel
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plox for both of those

raven rose
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Next CDLC will be in WW2 setting info 86%

loud apex
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Source : guys trust me

random crane
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magic 8ball says so

jade otter
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next CDLC is Napoleonic wars my mom owns Bohemia guys trust me

foggy ravine
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Next CDLC Adventures of Captain Butt Naked fix info

steady gale
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next CDLC is set in the middle ages, 99% sure legit source, the source is "trust me bro"

foggy ravine
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To be honest an African themed CDLC would be really interesting, Siege of Jadotville or Angola-Zaire border clashes, maybe even Rhodie Bush-War

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I'd pay top dollar for those

ebon sedge
foggy ravine
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Time travelling CDLC like Darkest Of Days

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ok bohemia time to hire me for CDLC ideas thank you

ebon sedge
foggy ravine
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Maybe they can make and exeption for me

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Can I be CDLC program main sanitary technician?

devout turtle
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How about a Pacificism DLC, where everyone in the game just hangs out, and plans fun picnics, folk music nights, sweat lodges, fishing trips, pool tournaments, bake-offs, community cook-outs, and hemp weaving competitions? We could have an anti-gun rally and volunteer for mine clearance and orphan hugging too. War is really shit, so let’s celebrate life!!

Or we could do a rollerblade RPG robot arms dlc with death metal and random napalm and attack dogs....

ebon sedge
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Hell ye ameowpartyattention

foggy ravine
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Hell yeah

devout turtle
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Or set one on the other? Id pay for that shit

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Much as i am a hippie i secretly want to punch one

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The duality of man

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Has anyone ever made a decent riot squad game? Where you get to play as the anarchists disrupting the environmental protests to provoke the shield banging fully armored shield wall of riot police into clubbing old ladies with daisies in their hair?

foggy ravine
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Are shields doable in Arma?

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The Troubles CDLC

devout turtle
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And have a rival team riding armored horses and firing pepper spray and water cannon and baton rounds at the bewildered masses

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As a former earth defender ive been in a few of those situations, would love to relive it in a game

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Seen some mad tactics and strategy on the battlefields

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Fire breathers, fence cutters, whistles and warpaint

ebon sedge
devout turtle
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Problem is all the people into protesting dont own computers

jade otter
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Fantasy dlc

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But it’s just Skyrim again

devout turtle
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Thats giving me flashbacks pi, maybe i dont want to relive the days gone by actually

foggy ravine
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Regular Army Life CDLC, you enlist, go through basic training, and go on guard duty for 8 ingame hours, repeat for 40 years

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sign up for KFOR in hopes of adventure, get denied. back to guard duty

jade otter
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Seriously wishlist, wouldn’t a sci-fi kind of cdlc be really neat

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It would have to be an original idea but I could see it done

ebon sedge
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I'd love a 2035 expansion cdlc

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which adds more basegame fitting stuff

foggy ravine
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What kinda sci-fi you thinking?

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@jade otter

jade otter
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Basically battlefield 2142

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I think it’s much more likely to see something along those lines than to delve pre-1960s

foggy ravine
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I thought you'd like something more akin to Star Trek or Stargate 😄

jade otter
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I’m open, but Star Trek isn’t really know for its warfare

ebon sedge
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oh god pls no laser gun stuff heh

foggy ravine
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go thru big blue door, meet savages with power staffs. Show P90 superiortiy

jade otter
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laser guns would be pretty sick

foggy ravine
jade otter
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nobody said cdlc ever had to be based on real world stuff only

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That’s just what we’ve got

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I wanna see an original creation

devout turtle
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Raptor riding apaches wielding lightning spears vs slingshotting leprechauns riding kiwi werewolves?

knotty ore
jade otter
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I meant 2142

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With the mechs and lasers

knotty ore
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It is quite difficult matter since neither of those are native engine things

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so making such things is not exactly easy and the solutions may not be stable enough for paid product

jade otter
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unfortunately I agree, we’re kinda stuck with 1960s-2035 kind of things from engine limitations

knotty ore
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there are mods being worked on for those more extravagant things

hazy pumice
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Female Characters cDLC would be cool @knotty ore 😉

knotty ore
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that would need quite a bit of engine side stuff

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for a paid thing

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Or well I have not really asked. But Assuming DLC as a paid product should not have problems between character selection and incompatible gear between 2 different sized characters

hazy pumice
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Yeah, was sort of just meme-ing

knotty ore
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🤪

steady nest
#

Remembering that SOGPF's vaunted gameplay features are mostly modules (read: functionality that mods could do) and melee as a fire mode on select weapons

gritty hound
muted narwhal
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not possible, also not the point of this channel

torpid hearth
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Why does everyone want female characters? Everyone was so upset about BF5 adding females

random crane
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my guess is so lifers can have brothels

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may or may not be ironic

torpid hearth
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Lol

karmic blaze
ebon sedge
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It was just that on top of all the other weird stuff they did.
meowthis

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Although i personally quite dislike writing females into battles that they werent in, but thats no discussion for this channel

knotty ore
hazy pumice
random crane
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yea, sure, its a rather sterile (no pun intended) world when only civilian men exist

karmic blaze
#

I tried not to laugh. I failed.

knotty ore
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Would also be nice if first thing mentioned with Arma and woman character was not the hookers

random crane
#

but if its about combat arms im not bothered by the lack of women, the military is traditionally a male job

hazy pumice
knotty ore
#

im more inclined to say its the technical stuff making them come with

torpid hearth
hazy pumice
random crane
#

i played armed assault a bit not too long ago, surprised there was a woman reporter in game

#

even if just for news reels

karmic blaze
#

I doubt many people are fussed by it one way or another, tbh. On one hand, you'd add more variety and personalization, on the other, I'm also not very enthusiastic about the thought of it being abused for uh.. unethical purposes.
But I do hope it'll be added to the next installment, at least

knotty ore
torpid hearth
#

Well yeah that can be the case for anything

#

Personally if I had a preference for something the devs would work on to improve the game females would not be at the top of the list

random crane
#

i wonder how other games do it, most shooters i can think of have female characters so it doesnt seem an insurmountable obstacle

knotty ore
#

less gear to swap for instance

#

dedicated characters and not million pieces of gear to fit on different characters

#

some games use morphing meshes too which helps

torpid hearth
#

Since it's not already implemented I can't imagine it's high up on the totem pole

knotty ore
#

and more modern animation systems can share animations between different sized characters

#

currently nothing is anymore really.

karmic blaze
#

Arma 3 is technically EoL. Realistically, there's still a small skeleton crew and ye olde community, ofc

hazy pumice
#

There also weren't the wearable uniforms back when females were a thing in ARMA 2.

knotty ore
#

indeed

#

one thing a CDLC women addon could have is access to original gear to refit them on new character

#

thats the only thing mods cant do properly

#

it still would be a lot of work though with risk of no payoff

karmic blaze
#

hmm. a cDLC would also excuse having custom animations.

But on the point of payoff, I doubt it would be very hugely adopted, unless it was handled like the base DLC 🤔

knotty ore
#

it would not be

torpid hearth
#

Gib Fallujah cdlc

knotty ore
#

unless something very drastic changes happen

karmic blaze
knotty ore
#

as far as I know yes thats the idea

karmic blaze
#

I figured it was just because of the different scopes and the mechanics overhead that made it more convenient to just have it separate. Interesting
I'd hope they aren't (or won't be) fully required to. I understand the whole downloading/space issue, but for something like that which would be rather on the small side, I think it'd benefit the game and dlc to have it be integrated, at least

hazy pumice
#

You don't want cDLCs to have dependencies on anything but the base game ofc

knotty ore
#

what would be the difference of having them in base game?

#

you would still need to buy the dlc to use the stuff

#

I mean

#

Do you expect to have the stuff for free?

#

😅

karmic blaze
#

Adoption rates would be higher. If people are exposed to the content by proxy, they are more likely to buy it

torpid hearth
#

Is it known at all if there are other cdlc's in the works currently?

knotty ore
#

no

#

nothing has been announced

torpid hearth
#

I hate how sneaky they are

#

Sog pf was like a jack in the box blowing up in my face

#

Granted it was an absolute dream come true

#

And csla looks awesome too but I want more stuff to fan girl over and look forward to

karmic blaze
#

if people need to enable a separate DLC and load it for it to even be displayed, it kind of defeats the purpose.
At that point the effort required to put it in the individual user's game (from a user perspective) would outweigh the benefits.

For example, I am very apprehensive about using any mods for cDLC because the actual times I use them are incredibly low compared to other content.
Exceptions are Contact and Apex, because most of their content is already baked into the game.

somber ice
torpid hearth
torpid hearth
karmic blaze
torpid hearth
#

Yeah it is

karmic blaze
#

no faffing around from a user perspective, all plug and play, no compat files, no enabling things. it just works. 16 times the detail

torpid hearth
#

Yeah if compatibility files were part of the cdlc updates it would make it so much easier

#

Although it could be a pain for someone like me with shit tier internet

#

Mogadishu cdlc could be super cool too

#

Sometimes I feel like there's not enough hard-core urban combat in arma

karmic blaze
#

As far as the AI goes, it's pretty janky with urban combat. Phasing through walls or otherwise just being derpy. Arma4 will hopefully drastically improve that

torpid hearth
#

Yeah which is a bummer but it can still be fun

knotty ore
#

but compatibility data would then force the downloads to people

#

solution is simple. Promote use of the dlcs, instead of not using them and people will turn around

karmic blaze
#

I mean. From experience, I have an easier time selling people on Apex and Contact simply because they actually get to see the content around them actively. You could argue that people should just get over it and just download the compat data and have ops with it, but I think that's a bit narrow-minded. Hell, the average attention span in today's world is about half a second, anyway

strange helm
#

Cuban missile crisic CDLC 👀

#

T-55's with SA-2 guideline missiles slapped on em

#

just imagine

knotty ore
hazy pumice
knotty ore
#

you cant please everyone ever

#

so current system works just fine

signal kindle
#

Can i use the SOG assets i misionsmaking whiteout loading the whole dlc in? I just plain hate the sog altered menu so I don’t fancy to have it loaded

velvet hazel
#

Compatibility is pretty critical to actually keeping the playerbase together and ensuring the game lasts

velvet hazel
signal kindle
#

@velvet hazel would be awesome if there was a native check box like with animations and such so it could be turned of

sonic heath
torpid hearth
#

That is most definitely super duper

dire flume
#

Hello, how one can subscribe to all betas of future DLCs, I would anyway buy anything is coming for a3

hallow parrot
#

You can't

dire flume
hallow parrot
#

What why? Because of obvious reason

dire flume
#

why I can't apply for early access and beta testing of future DLCs

hallow parrot
#

Because it can't be existed before it exist

#

AKA there's no confirmed CDLC until they reveal it

#

Also NDA, whatever, paperworks... things aren't so simple as you think

dire flume
#

I do not see any problem signing NDA

steady nest
#

I'm guessing that this is because every CDLC is being done by a different developer studio, not Bohemia Interactive

steady gale
#

you're asking for them to implement some entirely new system just for you

steady nest
#

so you'd have to find out about the team's existence before you could apply for it

muted narwhal
#

isn't alpha/betas etc etc handled by the developers, and not the publisher (BI)

steady nest
#

As far as I know yes

ebon sedge
dire flume
#

that makes sense, thank you

plush quest
# dire flume Hello, how one can subscribe to all betas of future DLCs, I would anyway buy any...

Hi, we don't have any Bohemia Interactive Arma 3 DLCs in development. In the past, such DLCs were usually possible to try via the existing Dev-Branch and RC-Branch.
Creator DLCs are each slightly different in how they approach internal / public testing (in collaboration with the third-party developers). If and when details can be shared about potential upcoming CDLC testing, they will be made known on the usual channels and very likely echo'd here. There is no universal beta testing program in the way you describe. Thanks for your interest! salute

dire flume
somber ice
#

Who is in charge of the cDLC programm and is there a way to contact them or atleast give feedback to how it has been handeld etc? Or should it be posted in this channel or on the Feedback Tracker?

red saddle
#

You can go through Nillers

somber ice
#

Thanks!

sweet edge
#

@red saddle I have a question, if you are able to answer it then I'd be grateful - have you (Bohemia) ever declined to support a wanna-be cDLCin the history of Creator program?

steady nest
#

'Declined' at what stage?

#

There's someone who's been shut out practically from day one by the prohibition on 'MP game mode only' pitches

red saddle
#

Don't know what you mean by wannabe.
But there were CDLC proposals that were not accepted in the past. Most often because they just didn't follow the requirements that were defined beforehand

sweet edge
steady nest
#

points to the above, both from myself and from Dedmen

#

Dedmen, your answer sounds like a case of 'if we accept your proposal then we're all-in'

sweet edge
#

are there any other requirements than those on Arma website?

red saddle
#

I don't know if there were proposals that were accepted, but then later dropped after it started development.
But I'm also not too involved with the CDLC stuff, I only get involved when its nearing the end.

red saddle
karmic blaze
#

what do you mean pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows isn't a good idea

gritty hound
#

I’ll tell you what though, if A4 isn’t future based I’d love a future CDLC

ebon sedge
#

I'd personally quite like an arma 3 CDLC that expands on the vanilla setting

gritty hound
#

I don’t really mean vanilla, but further past that. I wanna drop out of high altitude rockets with my laser gun and jetpack

ebon sedge
gritty hound
#

Yes jet packsanime_washing

#

I want to link to an orbiting cannon with my uav and destroy an entire town

karmic blaze
dense grail
#

I love the vanilla stuff it's really good and well written

#

The base game is massively under rated :)

ebon sedge
torpid hearth
#

I feel like alternate history is where the cdlc's could shine

jade otter
#

I wouldn’t expect a vanilla cdlc, wouldn’t want the community to confuse whats canon or not

sweet edge
#

I'd give away my soul for a proper future warfare

dense grail
#

I still wanna know what happened to Miller....

torpid hearth
#

What if the US and China went to war in the 80's

sweet edge
#

vanilla's assets are mostly from "our" world

dense grail
#

Will arma 4 bring back Miller lol

torpid hearth
#

Or Rhodesian bush wars

#

The possibilities are endless but unfortunately I think arma gets stuck around European country X in the cold war

#

Cold War is cool for sure but there are so many other potential ways to go

jade otter
#

I mean only 2/3 were europe in the Cold War, it all depends on what community developers want to make

#

Tho idk how Rhodesia would play over with Bohemia wanting to sell it given that’s an extremely political conflict

steady nest
ebon sedge
jade otter
steady nest
#

the highly racial aspects of the politics
And the explicit political motivations behind contemporary 'memorials to Rhodesia'

jade otter
#

Yea I’m being very select with my wording, I can’t imagine how making a whole dlc about it would be

torpid quest
#

I hope the RHS team gets to make a CDLC, they make some quality assets

random crane
#

making a cdlc about any war doesnt mean its a celebration of the political causes behind it, one can just enjoy what regular soldiers did during their time

karmic blaze
#

#MakeArmaNotWar

steady nest
#

That may be the intent by developers and the publisher, but no guesses what will happen if you depict 'Rhodesian forces'

#

To say nothing of 'and just who did the developers consult for 'telling the supposedly regular soldiers' story'...?'

random crane
#

what exactly do you think will happen? rhodesian army was mixed race, and it was the other guys bayonetting women and children to death, for the record

#

you can go listen to any podcast made by rhodesians who fought and they're just normal people recounting their stories

ebon sedge
#

I have a feeling that it take the whole warcrime situation we have already (geneva suggestion xd), and ramp it up a notch or two

jade otter
random crane
#

plenty of warcrimes to go around in every conflict, remember when americans dropped white phosphorus over fallujah and pictures of charred bodies came out?

#

or apache gunners blasting buses full of civilians?

#

i dont play to do that honestly, nor its a side of the war i want to remember

jade otter
#

I just don’t the Rhodesian bush war can be told lightly when mass graves and atrocity were the daily regiment for both sides

karmic blaze
jade otter
#

And the issue of how embedded the Rhodesian bush war is in the mythology of some not so friendly characters

random crane
jade otter
#

But generally we’re not making games about the SS units organizing the Holocaust

#

Selous scouts in Rhodesia were poisoning clothes i refugee camps

#

And they’re very important to the conflict

random crane
#

it wasnt just the SS committing war crimes, not sure how that is an argument

#

the nazis have been depicted as a whole as the biggest evil known to mankind for the past century

#

you dont normally hear 'but hey wait it was just the SS doing atrocities'

jade otter
#

I also don’t think the Nazis would make a very good cdlc btw

#

Due to the political grounds involved there

random crane
#

ok, thats your opinion, doesnt change that we've had ww2 games for 30 years or more

karmic blaze
#

it's all about how you depict, contextualize and handle the content

jade otter
#

But a non existence of Rhodesian bush war games

#

Making the Nazis is easier than the minefield of Rhodesia

random crane
#

cause its a niche with little incentive for devs to spend time on it

#

most people dont even know what a 'rhodesia' is

#

outside of military enthusiast and political circles you probably wont find anyone that knows what that is

karmic blaze
#

for example you could very easily depict someone in the wehrmacht who got drafted, witnessing the war crimes and show that not every person is terrible while still showing these bad things and making a statement about it.

#

in a way, the IDAP DLC touched on these things

jade otter
#

And also it’s difficult because in a video game sense, the focused faction is inherently given the trait of being the hero

random crane
#

nothing would stop you from portraying both sides

#

which is something arma does, in fact

jade otter
#

But typically one side gets way more love, as has been the case for all the cdlcs so far

#

East Germany and North Vietnam got a few missions in comparison to a full campaign

random crane
#

again, nothing would stop a determined dev team to do otherwise

karmic blaze
#

storytelling is an art

jade otter
#

But just the fact of that shows the minefield that is the conflict

#

You have to balance the scales of something extremely complicated, controversial, and highly politicized

random crane
#

no offense, but sounds more to me like you're coming up with reasons to justify why you dont want to see it, rather than thinking of how it could be made to work

#

cause so far all the reasons you brought, imo, can be addressed fairly

jade otter
#

I just think the difficulty in making it work will shy away any attempts

random crane
#

fair

karmic blaze
#

Well it definitely will shy away many attempts. But not all. In the end, if you want to make it happen and put in the work, you will likely find away. Not always, ofc, but more often than not

torpid hearth
#

It doesn't even have to be a true historical conflict tho

#

It could be alternate history

#

Russia/China invades the US

#

Or the China goes to war with India

#

The possibilities are literally endless

#

Korean conflict could be super cool as well

#

I think that's why SOG stood out so much. It broke a major mold for Arma. Granted vietnam is a very popular genre

hazy pumice
#

I've played some very good Bush Wars scenarios, you concentrate on the military side of things same way that people do in WW2 ARMA

velvet hazel
#

With the "Bush Wars," even the terminology matters. For example, the South Africans called the Namibian War if Independence a Border War in order to delegitimize the Angolans and Namibians. Unfortunately this is often the title Western games use for that conflict, while never even mentioning the other side's language for the conflict

#

I think it can be done but it really requires thoughtful research and bringing in both sides.

hazy pumice
#

That is the case for any conflict in any time period tbh

velvet hazel
#

Totally! I'm just pointing it out

steady nest
hazy pumice
#

Which is a subject for a channel that was locked on this discord

#

But OT for this channel. Back on topic, I wonder, just a thought... Will a cDLC program be used from day one of ARMA 4 should it come to pass? I can see advantages in doing so...

sick steeple
#

I think they should do nation packs for a4, like the cDLC prog but orientated towards capturing the large communities that tend to form around nations.

steady nest
sick steeple
#

No, more curated, with a map and content targeting whatever relevant real world history is associated with that nation within a rational time period.

steady nest
#

That (compared to faction pack modders) increases the bar for entry... but I suppose it is reflected in all three publicly-known CDLCs

sick steeple
#

Hopefully we will be expecting the bar to be raised across the board in A4.

steady nest
#

I mean 'the bar for entry' in terms of what skill sets are required

#

For faction packs that aren't reskins you need weapon/attachment/clothing/vehicle modelers/texturers and coders

young geyser
steady nest
#

Whereas for the three CDLCs so far the teams also needed terrain making (including making terrain-specific stuff like buildings and foliage) skills and both SP and MP mission making skills

#

so if the 'nation packs' are 'one military only' packs in the style of all three currently-released CDLCs, then you still need all of the above

#

I say 'still' in the sense that while all three DLCs depict multiple militaries, having to only depict one military wouldn't meaningfully cut down on the range of content creation skills required

devout turtle
#

We wouldn’t do one side it makes little sense, as our soundscape and weapon and side balancing wouldn’t work with a plugged in faction made by someone else

#

We aimed at a total conversion in its own niche period

#

Id be more interested in a model where we can expand content and continue to add revenue streams as setting a single price and then being unable to publish a roadmap means youre asking customers to take a leap of faith. I.e if you had say a 5 year plan for rolling out more and more content, in the current model you can only ever set a single diminishing price

#

You then run a risk of people complaining your price is too high for the MVP at launch

#

And if sales dont stack up you run another risk of commissioning a raft of new content that cant be paid for

#

We have a model that mitigates some of the risk but even so, we could continue making content in our niche for another 5 years, but we can never charge another dime for it, so the current model has some significant economic flaws for encouraging long term development

#

Our team isnt driven by money at all, we’re very passionate, and committed arma community brothers and sisters, but we also have to recruit talent with a promise of some income. Its a tough balancing act.

sweet edge
#

then again, it just means the Creator program has been written wrong from the very foundations

prisma mountain
#

I don't think it was written wrong, just the overall expectations could of been expanded upon up front. One the big benefits of being free to enter the CDLC program is that you get a established workflow, engine, game mechanics, ect. Try that with say Unity and Unreal and you are starting at a much bare bone level and a much higher investment risk due to needing license.

sinful cape
#

usually i try to shut my mouth about it for obvious reasons, but here's my take on it: cdlc teams are shooting too high. nobody expects you to make a total conversion in the scale of a game that is usually made by 30 full paid professionals over multiple years.

#

do something with a smaller scope instead. something that can be done right in all areas. who would win? a cdlc with 30 mediocre vehicles, or a cdlc with 3 well done vehicles? i'd pick the later.

devout turtle
#

There’s merit in making smaller DLCs for sure. The issue a lot of us face is terrain. When we started our dlc we planned 9 months of terrain building and 8 months of polishing it while we made our vehicles. Add a whole other year to that and we just about finished it. So terrain - largely due to the awful tools especially for team working - is pretty much the defining time in which you make your MVP assets.

#

Our dlc has faced criticism from some quarters for not being bigger, which is frankly quite unreasonable!

#

We built the terrain and during the time it took to complete we made as many assets as we could, and as many missions.

#

Each mission took 6 months to complete

#

Due to the enormous amount of QA and development, and the shifting sands of the terrain changing

#

Making campaign and terrain in parallel could not be avoided and it caused a lot of rework

#

We spent an extra year and about 50% more budget, and from an initial proposal of 25 people we ended up with 120 creators and 150 testers which was a lot of moving parts.

#

Our team marvels at GM and CSLA for producing so much content with such small teams. All we can say is bravo!

#

If we were to go back and do it again we’d do it smarter, but the end result would be the same scale, we’d just get there 6 months earlier!

#

Another criticism some people make is how we reuse arma 3 buildings. Thats really missing a lot of understanding of what is possible in a dlc. We created hundreds of new assets: fortifications, barracks, hangars, revetments, bars, train stations, bridges, tents, bunkers, towers, signs, billboards, street props, the hue citadel, tunnels, caves, etc etc and converted 1700 arma assets including optimising every tree, bush and rock. And yet people complain because we didnt make it all from scratch. Insanity!

#

Over 200 buildable buildings with ghost models and part built models for game modes to use...

#

But nope, we used that arma 3 shed! I want a refund!!

#

If we built everything from scratch we would have taken 5 years and gone bankrupt

#

There’s a minority of these voices but they shout loudly

#

And other people glancing at arma will see that comment and think ok i wont buy that then, without for one second considering the reasons why things are done this way... its sad that these mad comments are even allowed to impinge on dlc presentations, but customers have a right to say what they want even if its factually incorrect or misleading or absolutely unreasonable and illogical

#

Theres a reason we ignore the steam pages completely, and instead focus on youtube

#

Essentially gamers want certain things. They want fun and easy to use interface and a challenging game and some cool assets and an exciting terrain.

#

But they also want every possible tank, aircraft, uniform, backpack, weapon, attachment, and prop. And they want new foliage and new buildings and more terrains, a coop campaign and a single player campaign. And they want friendly AI but they want that AI to behave better than Arma 3 AI. And they want new sounds and music, and game modes...

#

So any dlc project whether bohemias or ours is always going to get hammered for not doing everything that gamers wanted. Its just routine, normal, SOP. So when you design your dlc just focus on what you want to do and have fun with it, and hope you get enough appreciation.

muted narwhal
devout turtle
#

As you cannot ever deliver what everyone wants, even with a $5m budget

muted narwhal
#

that being said, making some sort of small faction (no terrain) is very much possible and the price for such a cDLC can easily be 2-4$ which is more than fair

#

on the other hand, making JUST the terrain is yet another avenue that is possible to do. there is not bar in terms of quantity of assets provided

sinful cape
#

just please don't do yet another cold war cdlc 😄

#

i was already burned out before, now with 2 cdlcs like that, i won't recover for another 10 years

wide steppe
#

Ignore this man

#

3 cold war CDLCs aren't enough

#

There needs to be more

sinful cape
#

it's getting too cold for me

wide steppe
#

Make it go hot then)

#

Maybe next Cold War CDLC can be set in the deset, two meanings to 'hot' then

muted narwhal
#

you do understand that people who choose to do cDLCs are not actually gonna read such comments :))

wide steppe
#

+++

#

but the man can hope

muted narwhal
#

sure can, but to be honest there will always be some doode who cannot get enough of ww2 or cold war or whatever

wide steppe
#

I'd swallow any CDLC that is good, as long as it's not future or way to far in the past

muted narwhal
wide steppe
#

Through some more resent wars would be most interesting, Syria, Ukraine, Yugoslavia, etc... sadly these probably won't happen as they are probably to recent according to BI

#

esp two of them still being ongoing

#

and Yugo probably being to "spicy" to market

muted narwhal
#

a cDLC the size of the 3 released right now would take at least a couple of years to make if a group of people were to start doing it right now

sinful cape
sweet timber
#

No "phasers to stun" 🙂

wide steppe
sinful cape
#

but it's past already :((

#

the tech in a3 universe is so old by now

ebon sedge
#

I cant wait for when people look back at arma 3 marketing in a few decades, and joke about how Bi called their (then) retro tech 'futuristic' heh

sweet timber
#

I am still waiting for my flying DeLorean....

ebon sedge
#

Sort of like us now looking back at the great new 8-bit sound, but for military tech

sinful cape
#

8-bit sound? too futuristic for my taste

ebon sedge
sweet timber
#

8-track tape or sci-fi

gritty hound
#

I’d be down for an alien CDLC. Perhaps with contact stuff but would be mostly sci fi

jade otter
#

maybe some of the guys who make these great scifi mods could create their own original universe to make a cdlc

knotty ore
#

there would have to be a market for that

#

and well, its a bit risky thing

#

Also a lot of the interesting scifi features are quite difficult to get working in state that it could be a paid product

sweet edge
#

is it a smaller niche than for cold war tho?

#

but yeah, Arma 3 is not that prepared for anything from future warfare. laser beams, hover vehicles, or even gundams - from what I have seen thanks to mods it is both hard to implement and does not look as good as people would expect it to be

knotty ore
#

there are good bits and then there are the wonky bits

#

so scope would have to be quite a bit limited imo to made a "stable" scifi product

steady nest
haughty magnet
devout turtle
#

oh we did. we retextured so many buildings, removed air conditioning, cleaned up the AS maps, fixed or added breakable glass, added climbable drainpipes, a team of 6 guys worked for 2 years non-stop on those assets. we spent about 8% of our project budget on them

#

people just dont realise it

haughty magnet
#

That to me, says you didn't do a good job of retexturing them.

karmic blaze
#

I think that the best you can do is just accept the situation in the state it is, some of it being unfair as it may be and just improve. Many people disliked GM when it released and now it's regarded as the best.

devout turtle
#

yeah that was my conclusion above.

#

fact of life: there are always 10% dickheads in any crowd

#

best to completely ignore them like they're ghosts.

karmic blaze
#

if you can pull a no man's sky, I'd be happy. I bought the dlc and I'm not planning on refunding it, but I certainly agree with a majority of the criticisms. Not all, but I think we can agree that it's not in a happy state. If it's a financial issue, fair enough, I can respect that. Shit happens. But in this case, you'll need to just take the L for the mismanagement/miscalculations you might've had during development

devout turtle
#

discord block function is sweet for that

haughty magnet
#

Be careful not to become the dick tator who lumps valid criticism in with them.

devout turtle
#

as that one just proved lol

karmic blaze
#

But as it stands, sadly the overall sentiment of the community is justified, even if it's definitely on the overreactive side.

#

I just hope you guys commit to fixing the issues, then doing a quality pass, then doing a content pass

devout turtle
#

overall sentiment? you mean we got 81% very positive on steam?

karmic blaze
#

oh

devout turtle
#

how is that sad?

karmic blaze
#

wait, I got very confused

#

sorry, thought it was CSLA, ignore me entirely

loud apex
devout turtle
#

ah i see

#

glad i didnt block you also lol

#

i have a good heart

plucky magnet
#

Rob's a good lad

fleet tree
#

I love all 3 of the CDLCs and barely seen any negative feedback on SOG, only ones I have seen are ones complaining about the MI-2 hahaha

devout turtle
#

i don't like wasting time on idiots is all.

fleet tree
#

Fair enough

devout turtle
#

i was just saying (as i woke up at 4am and rambled a bit above) that thereare always people spamming you with derision and hate on the internet, wegot 81% on steam but still there are people banging on about their pet bug orissue (that we may well fix ofcourse), or they have conspiracy theories about all kinds of decisions we must have made blah blah. or how we're harming unsung, when we're the same teams... just dumb fantasists, better to ignore that stuff. Other DLC teams would benefit fro mthesame advice/ approach. forthe extreme stuff. obviously constructive feedback is welcomed

#

what i was saying above is that you cannot ever please everyone. it's impossible, so set your sights lower.

#

just please yourselves and your friends and your fanbase, and screw the 10%ers, the ghosts

#

they haunt every corner of the internet looking to feed on creators

#

and that's why every single internet chat system has a block feature.

#

the unsung team created the SOG dev team. we were first in the team, along with jets DLC team members

fleet tree
#

Yeah, had a few people I know getting really heated over exactly this.

#

No reasoning with them in the end

devout turtle
#

yeah that's my point. no reasoning

#

hence == block

#

they'll never give in or change their mind, even in the face of all the facts so don't even bother to try

#

so long as you support and welcome the majority of people in the community, and listen to genuine issues, you will do ok. you don't need to be in every argument, or to win them

#

other creator DLCs that come after SOG should not be judged against it. we invested a shit-ton of peoples time and money into it, and it is an extreme case not the norm.

#

what the other teams do with a fraction of our headcount is basically amazing to us.

fleet tree
#

Agreed, I envy those creators out there with a small group being able to publish something amazing even if their first time in doing so.

devout turtle
#

we're still wiped out from the final sprint - it has taken nearly a month for any of us to even want to look at Arma work

fleet tree
#

So always enjoy looking through the new uploads on workshop a few times a day

devout turtle
#

after 3 years doing 70-80-90 hour weeks...

sinful cape
#

imagine being so bored in your life that all you do all day long is hate on the internet

devout turtle
#

working on every holiday, working over xmas and new year, through illness and bereavement, work, work, work, every evening, every weekend, no family time no vacations.... just toget it out the door

#

so we're all having a nice rest

sinful cape
devout turtle
#

and then you get some tit say "hey why hasn't my ticket been answered"

muted narwhal
#

that happens even with mods, so there is nothing new there

devout turtle
#

of course we'll sprint the tickets, ofcourse we'll make some cool new stuff, just give us a bit of room to recuperate lol

muted narwhal
#

will always be that special someone that thinks he's entitled to get things his way

devout turtle
#

it's been fun! we loved it all, but it was also super hard work. the team made a lot of sacrifices

fleet tree
#

The outcome from all your hard work is amazing though

#

It's understandable you guys might need some time to freshen up

devout turtle
#

i would not ever look down on any DLC or mod team or their efforts, we should all be grateful. if you dont like something, just dont buy it, or do, to support its future so you may eventually like it 😉

#

but bleating about small issues is pointless, just file a ticket and wait pateintly

#

and if the team doesnt agree your issue is a priority, so be it.

#

we all do our best. and we can enjoy ourselves much more by blocking the ghosts who contribute nothing but misery and dissatisfaction to the community.

silk jolt
#

Customers are not developers and might not understand developing processes at all or - worse - think they do. So the question is probably rather how can that made more transparent

devout turtle
#

A good question. i tend to drop in here now and again and blog about what we're doing or what thought processes are involved, to try to raise some awareness, either for future DLC teams or for other people, to consider what goes into a DLC.

#

i feel for other teams getting negative feedback, they worked hard, and they need our support.

silk jolt
#

Yet, negative feedback is also necessary.

muted narwhal
#

constructive feedback is what is necessary

silk jolt
#

Yes, sure

muted narwhal
#

it doesn't need to be positive just for the sake of being positive

steady nest
#

Especially when we've been hearing that Iron Curtain launched despite negative feedback pre-release

devout turtle
#

we may do some dev blogs at some point now we can talk more about what we created, so we'll cover sound, terrain, weapons, vehicles, campaign, etc so people can see the immense amount of effort and the vast number of decisions and moving parts involved in each part of a big DLC

fleet tree
#

tbh I love everything Arma 3 so CSLA was a must have and I like it ngl

fleet tree
silk jolt
#

@devout turtle Maybe some short video clips, showing an example?

devout turtle
#

we have plans as the year goes on to record some podcast type things going over the creation processes

#

from paper sketch through to prototype, to playable alpha, then deepening function and feature into beta, and polishing to gold.

#

it takes months for any asset

silk jolt
#

But I do think, that has to be done, while developing and while customers are waiting for the product. Afterwards I fear most wouldn't watch it

devout turtle
#

we're not allowed to do that, due to the risks of never delivering it andfans feeling let down

silk jolt
#

That is the problem

devout turtle
#

so we'll do it after.

#

it's no problem, you don't have to watch it 😉

silk jolt
#

During my university time I had some contact with geographers and proper map data - I doubt that is used in a game, but I know what work that is

devout turtle
#

making maps in Arma tools is not pretty.

#

it's a rollercoaster ride of crashing and workarounds

#

the guys involved in our terrain knew more techniques to work around problems and spent so much time on that, it's mind blowing.

sinful cape
#

i've worked with worse tools 🙂

silk jolt
#

Maps are very underestimated

devout turtle
#

arma is never simple

#

we get studios hitting us up for work a lot, saying we can do full turnkey injection to game, and we just shake our heads and delete their message

#

no point even starting down that road

#

Arma tools / skills are actually quite rare, and having people with them who can communicate and work professionally and have availability and passion is really a very tiny group.

#

probably less than 500 people

#

maybe less than 300?

silk jolt
#

In any field it is difficult to find excellent people.

devout turtle
#

that is true

#

we're looking for a programmer at present, and it will probably take us 3-4 weeks to get the right person

silk jolt
#

That is not too long 🙂

devout turtle
#

yeah but it's a general programmer, so it's not a restricted skillset

cinder inlet
#

recruiting always take time
especially in "small" studio where the person need to fit the group vision c:

devout turtle
#

that is very true

#

they need to "drink the kool-aid"

cinder inlet
#

And to take him up to "positive roi"
it can take 1-2-3 months
in order to be independent and a team player in the company

prisma mountain
# devout turtle yeah but it's a general programmer, so it's not a restricted skillset

I would probably list off C++ or C# as a language in your advertisement. A general programmer even at a professional level is some one like me, who knows typically a handful of low level languages to do server and data management. This will also potentially attract post graduates or senior students looking to get their feet wet. Which is really the cake you want if your looking for kool-aid peeps.

devout turtle
#

Weve mentioned C-related languages, what were most after is professionalism, and the programmer mindset and toolbox, as sqf can be rapidly taught and debugged by others in the team

devout turtle
#

We had 20 applications - linked in worked great! Fully recommend it as a recruiting platform

wraith sleet
#

Hi, does anyone know if there are any other creator dlc's in the works? Are there any rumors?🧐 🤔 🤞

hallow parrot
#

Rumors are everywhere. But as long as they're classified and not revealed, we can't say much

young geyser
jade otter
#

I think the weight of the first 2 home runs outweighs whatever negative impact came from the last one

#

if anything it'll be forgotten next release if nothing is done

young geyser
jade otter
#

I mean people seem to have forgotten GM's release, plenty of youtube videos talking about not buying it and reviews talking about it being unplayable

#

once the problems are fixed the more extreme reviews will be paved over

young geyser
# jade otter I mean people seem to have forgotten GM's release, plenty of youtube videos talk...

Again, that release was "forgiven" because the GM team did such an amazing job fixing the issues and bringing new content post release. If the CSLA team does the same or otherwise if they don't want to support the CDLC anymore then BI would have to intervene and do something equally significant to what the GM team did to turn around their situation. Additionally the GM team had to deal with being the first on the program when players haven't fully embraced the cDLCs system yet.

steady nest
#

afaik all BI 'had to do' was keep approving GM's post-launch updates for public release

young geyser
devout turtle
#

Anyone who puts a product together over 3-4 years is never going to just dump it on the market and sit back and do no more. The one or two suspicious people who keep bringing up post release support are just fruitcakes imo.

#

Its absolutely obvious we would support our product after release. To what extent depends on our resourcing either through team goodwill or actual sales revenue

jade otter
#

Especially considering the CSLA team in question has been doing this longer than some talking about it have been alive

#

would be odd to end it here

devout turtle
#

Quite! Good point well made

#

There was one guy who was practically demanding a written guarantee from bohemias CEO before he would buy our creator dlc. Some people have no idea how the real world works:

#

Nobody caters for extremes

#

So taking an extreme stance means you will always feel alienated and angry

#

And nobody will listen to you or give you what you think you want.

#

I wish extreme people were better policed in review pages. If you could have 50 people “mark as extreme” or “misleading” that would be a great way to censor the assclowns

#

True democracy - adding your stone to the jar to have someone banished

#

If that happened, people would leave more reasoned reviews on steam

finite cave
#

The ČSLA devs stated they're planning to continue working on it 🙂

sinful cape
#

it's not that folks don't want to, but it has to be feasible

steady nest
#

By-far best-selling game in the franchise, but the DLC sales versus those of other titles... allegedly led to its post-release support getting ended after only two years

devout turtle
#

2 years is still a long time although arma has always hd a much longer shelf life

sinful cape
#

considering how quickly other games are abandoned, i think 2 years is pretty good :p

silk jolt
#

DCS Black Shark: Published 2009 - still getting fixes and updates and improvements. Last stable release - last week friday

sinful cape
#

i bet it still makes them money

dusk cargo
#

they've invested a hell ton of time in the helicopter model, which can't get outdated, except for the visual part

silk jolt
#

Just wanted to express, that two years are not a long time - at least not in more niche titles

steady nest
knotty ore
#

Just so nobody gets confused, the above is not about Arma

steady nest
#

Yup

knotty ore
steady nest
#

It normally would be, I only brought it up in the context of 'if a game's post-launch DLC sales don't hold up...'

sinful cape
#

i mean, obviously something must have happened there. maybe the sales were good at first but then had a sharp decline

steady nest
devout turtle
#

basically, if we have been modding Arma for a decade, why would we stop, just because we made some money? It's quite the opposite situation, because we made some money, we can spend more time doing what we clearly love.

#

I've been doing this creator DLC for 3 years working 60-80 hours a week. Before that I modded unsung for 4 years full time when I was unable to work due to a debilitating illness. Switching careers to game development saved my ass, and helped me fully recover. I then encoded on and later produced Jets DLC, and that was a great warm-up for the Creator DLC. The team we assembled all had 10 years pedigree in Arma modding. For people to complain that we won't promise to support the DLC after release is missing a massively obvious truth. We and the other creators are just not allowed to say anything about the future, but look long int othe past and you should be able to make a reasonably informed decision, and not make demands on Bohemia for guarantees.

#

One guarantee we do have is that bug-fixing is built into everyones contracts internally in SGD. So people who make the stuff remain responsible for fixing it in perpetuity.

#

Of course we may not prioritise your particular bug report this month, or next month or ever, we expect to triage and fix like any other game studio.

silk jolt
#

3rd parties in DCS have - as far as I know - contracts that require them to make sure, their modules support all(?) future changes. I don't get how thy can plan something like that, but it is probably just not really economical.

devout turtle
#

Contracts only lay out the expected direction, they are not always enforced, and either party may be unable or unwilling to honour their on-paper commitments. That's a completely normal business situation I have experienced working in government contracting for 2 decades, even inside a law firm. Everyone tries their best, but you can't always achieve it.

#

You each have to look at the team and the product and like we did making the DLC, take a leap of faith, or not.

silk jolt
#

Yes

#

But to be fair a Vietnam setting has a much higher probability of sparking interest. At least on the american market, which usually is a big market

strange helm
#

I mean it's probably a big marker, not only us (source: Lithuanian fellas I play with): when SOG was announced, our discord was pure "were going to naaaaaam, babyyyy" type of thing. When CSLA was announced to come out soon, everyone had a way more serious approach as to really nitpicking the given screenshots to see if the showcased assets, factions would be interesting to them

silk jolt
#

Yo, I always had a feeling that GM is loved largely by germans - or maybe europeans - and that is very understandable.

#

Many reviews come from people that remember "that vehicle" and so

strange helm
#

Oh yeah I absolutely loved GM since the only tank I ever saw with my two very eyes was a T-55AM and having that in arma, as detailed as it is was a real treat for me

silk jolt
#

😄

cinder inlet
#

well to be fully fair, i nitpicked SOG screenshot, and everything i could have on the dlc before making my mind on it, and well the whole communication was better on savage game design end, the interviews, the man power behind it made it appear a whole lot more professional, and i had a lot of faith in sogpf

silk jolt
#

Not to speak of not announcing it too early. That probably pushed BI or CSLA or both in a corner, that simply was not easy to leave

prisma mountain
#

GM had it tough because it was the first release. Despite it having arguably the best quality vehicle models in Arma 3 history, it had to fight through a lot of the "Paid mod" crowd with reviews and feedback. After the first update I think a lot of people were pretty relieved, but the damage was still sorta done.

#

Not to mention I felt they had very minimal BI support atm vs the current DLCs.

silk jolt
#

However, according to the steam graphs they didn't get nearly as many negative reviews in the first month as iron curtain now in the first week. Maybe people just write more reviews now - at once!

sinful cape
#

" but the damage was still sorta done." that damage was always there

#

i think nobody would have went through this unscathed

lunar rivet
silk jolt
timber cape
silk jolt
#

Scandinavians probably play often on Bornholm, right?

timber cape
silk jolt
nimble hatch
#

i speculate to think its safe to say that arma 4 is in the pipline, despite not being announced 😉

Do hope the CDLC feature program will be carried through onto arma 4, dont see any reason as to why it shouldnt, to be honest

steady nest
steady nest
#

And now I'm remembering eggbeast finding what CSLA were able to achieve despite that to be amazing, much less GM

young geyser
# nimble hatch i speculate to think its safe to say that arma 4 is in the pipline, despite not ...

After watching the 20th Anniversary stream and after reading most of the official blog posts I believe it could be safe to say that Arma 4 is at least two years away (at the least). They probably haven't even finished the internal prototype (planned for December 2020) which is supposed to happen years before Arma 4 is even announced. What surprises me the most really is that knowing that Arma 3 has to keep the player base from jumping into the competition at least two more years (if not more) BI has devoted so little to the betterment of Arma 3 in terms of resources aimed at tackling some much needed optimisations and polished technical features lately up to the point were the engine can barely keep up with the content of the lasts cDCLs in terms of performance and functionality. At its current state GM 4K textures and SOG's complex missions, scope and its huge map can easily bring Arma 3 to its knees on any hardware and severely hurt the enjoyment for old and new players alike. Which in return translates to bad reviews and bad publicity for the company which in turn will eventually decide just how successful Arma 4 is.

jade otter
#

2 years is a very optimistic idea for Arma 4

#

Considering they haven't even finished Enfusion, I don't expect Arma 4 to be anything other than a floating concept

#

the way they discussed Arma 4 at the Q/A implied that aswell, that they're just work shopping ideas for the game, nothing solid

steady nest
jade otter
#

And engines are miles harder than games to make

steady nest
#

only for other game engines to in some ways outpace it before it even arrives...

jade otter
#

Well Real Virtuality has been outpaced for awhile

steady nest
#

Heck, Bohemia Interactive took four years to make Operation Flashpoint: Elite (the Xbox game) because the original Xbox had so little RAM... and by the time they were done, the Xbox 360 was launching 😬

jade otter
#

it doesn't matter about how other engines outpace, there aren't many engines designed for what Arma wants to achieve

steady nest
#

Then Arma 2 was supposed to be a Xbox 360 game, only for Bohemia Interactive devs to be unpleasantly surprised by how 'low-spec' the 360 was...

#

Then Bohemia Interactive got a 'wake-up call' when it came to expectations/standards and some of their past decisions (e.g. the 'Lite' DLC method) due to the greater visibility forced onto the Arma franchise by the DayZ mod

jade otter
#

Arma's niche also allows for alot of forgiveness though for those who love it

#

for better or worse

steady nest
#

Can't pretend the criticism didn't affect Arma 3 decision-making a lot though, e.g. it was overtly/explicitly part of the reason that Bohemia Interactive abandoned the 'Lite' DLC method and has publicly-ignored all calls for its return

steady nest
#

Therefore someone at Bohemia Interactive may believe that 'the well ran dry years ago' when it comes to Arma 3's engine, and thus see resources aimed at tackling some much needed optimisations and polished technical features as lipstick on a pig...

steady nest
devout turtle
#

We’ve had much more support for feedback tracker tickets in recent times as there has been less pressure from official content, so i wouldnt say at all that fixes and improvements are seen as a waste of time, quite the contrary, we have some great support from bohemia for our prioritized lists of tickets

#

Of course we wont see fundamental changes because that would require QAing the entire game content again which is unfeasible due to people and resources

#

But we definitely are seeing some nice improvements and a good listening culture

#

Despite all the needy types out there demanding arma 4 or multi threading or women soldiers etc the creator dlc project has seen a large group of people from the long term arma community rise to the challenge to professionalise their modding hobby, and some cool lower cost content has been provided garnering a lot of fans, and contrary to some of the original complainants it has not killed modding, there are still plenty of people who prefer to keep it at hobby level

#

I am likely to be biased in favour of creator dlcs, but for us it came at a point in time where another game entirely was trying to lure us away from arma. We were tempted but the creator dlc program was announced and it kept us to arma

#

So thats another aspect of creator dlcs people dont consider, that there could be a brain drain to other games without the creator dlc program

#

There are already arma modders working in dcs and squad and hell let loose and likely other games too

jade otter
#

It is a great incentive to keep some amazing modders around, really happy with the results of the program

devout turtle
#

When we ran our closed beta we had a really nice “festival” atmosphere with a lot of long established groups invited to take part and people were coming into voice chat and meeting their modding heroes and other clans they knew by reputation, everyone had a real buzz it was like having a mini E3 conference just focused on arma communities from around the world - there was so much positive spirit and mutual respect, it was a shame when it ended - we’d like to do something like that again later in the year. It made everyone realise we are united by a love of this game

#

And i have to say having mike force and koth and patrol ops and antistasi and BR all running with only people from longstanding milsim groups and mod teams forming the player base - the camaraderie, organisation and team spirit was absolutely amazing

#

There is definitely merit in considering a wider membership body for long term non toxic arma veterans to get access to community servers...

#

As the fun is cranked to max when everyone communicates well and is respectful

#

Public servers will always run the risk of lone rambos and bombtrolley pilots spoiling any sense of military organisation

#

They are fine as an entry level way to experience the games possibilities

#

And people who want it rapidly find groups to join

#

But i really think theres another level that has been overlooked- some kind of community membership for everyone who loves the game and is respectful of others, it really makes for an amazing experience to meet people new in a server and everyone is like minded

solar mantle
#

Unsung and VTE A2 public servers italianhands

devout turtle
#

Public servers restricted for established clans and mod teams only

#

That really makes for an outstanding experience of all the different game modes

solar mantle
devout turtle
#

Yeah i mean on a much bigger level, it would create a sense of exclusivity but thats not a bad thing when the people able to access it have earned their spurs by volunteering to follow social rules

#

Within whatever team they joined

jade otter
#

It would also do a good job of weeding those out who drive away good community

devout turtle
#

Yeah experience spoilers lol

#

Honestly we had 500 people in the closed discord and despite plenty of contrary views and discussions going on everyone remained respectful and we did not have to moderate a single person. It was so cool

#

Likewise on the servers, there were zero incidents

#

It seemed like some utopia

#

It showed us what could be possible for a wider gaming experience in arma

#

An unexpexted side effect

ashen geyser
#

Public servers run by clans in Project Reality worked really well. They had rules and admins to enforce them, and usually at least 1 squad composed of clan members.

devout turtle
#

Cool! I never tried it

#

The thing is in our servers we didnt even need admins, it was like we could have just given out the admin pw lol

ashen geyser
#

Yeah

devout turtle
#

That really was a surprise but in hindsight it was obvious

#

There are SO MANY great people in the arma community

#

Its just theres no way currently to bring that to the fore

#

So its something creator dlcs like ours with ties to many other mod teams and clans can help with

#

Especially as we have most of the main game modes on board

#

Theres an opportunity there to draw it all together into something really interesting

#

As i say we might do another “festival” in future and invite more groups. It really was a cool experience

jade otter
#

Excited to see the potential

solar mantle
#

As an example; The Mike Force server that my community hosted for our our sister groups was a fantastic experience. We always had around 15-20 players online and 95-100 unique players and only had a couple instances of people messing around.

devout turtle
#

Its nice to focus on the possibilities and the positives

solar mantle
#

If only @tight foghad shown up to play once or awhile davispeepin

devout turtle
#

As running groups and organising events for them is a heavy burden for clan leaders in the community

tight fog
devout turtle
#

He has a very demanding job

solar mantle
muted narwhal
velvet hazel
#

I agree with all of that, except that wanting female models is "needy". It's pretty damning that there were none on release. It's just straight up bad.

muted narwhal
#

there are certain limitations in regards to RV engine than cannot be mitigated by cDLCs

#

also, the same engine limitations are more and more glaring these days than they 8years ago on release

velvet hazel
#

For sure, it's not a condemnation of CDLC devs, it's a condemnation of Bohemia. For both authenticity's sake, and for the sake of a game women should be present.

#

[Though it would've been neat to have female Viet-Cong/ NVA there wasn't a template to work off of, so no complaints]

silk jolt
#

But there is a mod who does that

velvet hazel
#

yes, which is fantastic, and I think there is more than one. Ultimately though, Bohemia should've included a representation of half the population in vanilla, notwithstanding that they serve in plenty of armed forces. However, thats out of the CDLC scope so thats that

knotty ore
#

While I too would have liked to have the system in place, reality is that many many games of the time and even today dont have the option to play with different gender characters, which is still a normal thing in games.

steady nest
#

It is indicative of how outdated Real Virtuality 4 is

knotty ore
#

eh?

silk jolt
knotty ore
#

yes well. design choices and what not.

velvet hazel
#

Most open world games today have a gender option, even Red Dead Redemption and Bannerlord have them. Unless the game features a named and intentionally male protagonist generally the option is given. Arma should aim to be in the majority, not the minority, especially on this design choice

knotty ore
#

you do know you are comparing games with nearly a decade of time between them

velvet hazel
#

Arma II had them

tepid lance
#

Arma 2 had women. 🤫

knotty ore
#

I know I cant have reasonable conversation about this matter. I'll give up

velvet hazel
#

I don't see anything unreasonable about pointing out that they've been established in the series

knotty ore
#

I'll let you know when Armawoman project releases.

velvet hazel
#

Anyways, I want a UAZ based rallycross CDLC

#

Thats really all I care about.

ashen geyser
#

Character system was different. It would take double the work with A3 system for proper implementation of female characters. The decision was probably made that it wasn't worth the extra effort, work and manpower

velvet hazel
#

literally just add female faces

#

thats all that really had to happen

#

women's breasts aren't that enormous and under body armor are not pronounced

ashen geyser
#

Then the game would have been critized for being lazy and not implementing it completely

#

🤷‍♂️

ashen geyser
silk jolt
#

Also voices would be needed

velvet hazel
#

better than none at all

#

I assume a few women work at Bohemia

knotty ore
#

Anyway, offtopic for the channel

velvet hazel
#

Yes

dusk cargo
steady nest
dusk cargo
steady nest
#

I mean 'at some point the disparity in Arma 3's budget from AAA games shouldn't be a valid shield against criticism'

timber cape
dusk cargo
steady nest
#

'Unimportant' to you

dusk cargo
steady nest
#

As the main relevance to the topic I suppose is that both SOG and CSLA have gotten to do however-scripted features to change up the gameplay instead of being 'assets and missions' only

#

SOG had its vaunted modules and melee, but CSLA also has (bayonet) melee and dragging bodies

dusk cargo
#

also many people being vocal about something doesn't mean that they are a big percent of whole player base, for instance if we heard 'I don't really care about female characters in the game' from everyone who passionately doesn't care, it would probably be a bigger count 😄

steady nest
#

passionately doesn't care sounds paradoxical...

nimble hatch
# muted narwhal you seems to break the `professional` and `hobby` based on possibility of revenu...
  • false? all youve done is regurgitated what @devout turtle wrote to try and sound smarter, its done the opposite, what do you achieve from your negative statement? nothing but personal powertripping, which doesnt help anyone not even yourself

discussions are to be positive and productive, not pedantic, knitpicky and petty one ups

@devout turtle its so great to see your positive enthusiasm to speak so candidly on these issues, its warming and inspiring at the same time, keep that energy, 💯

muted narwhal
red saddle
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wat

devout turtle
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dw I don't read those comments due to blocked persons.

devout turtle
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This explains our approach and team history, worth adding to the channel

wraith sleet
normal light
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So….what do you think is next for a CSLC?

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I’m hoping it’s a WW2 one

dense grail
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IFA3 I THINK...... its aim is to be a cdlc

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Wheres kju at

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Lol

jade otter
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IFA3 already had a rocky attempt at selling itself

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I’d be surprised to see that come

torpid hearth
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I love ww2 as much as the next guy but bolt actions are jank in arma

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Korea could be cool

sweet edge
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I hope too, as IFA3 liberation is dead staresmile

knotty ore
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when you see mods that use ripped models from other games its best to not use the mod and notify the maker to remove them

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and use it only when its legit (assuming there is anything original in there)

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that way you dont get these dissapointments

sweet edge
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it was a sarcasm, but yeah, I have to buy a special x-ray device to scan such mods because I've never seen mod with so low-quality ripped content while they had everything in good condition. anyway having a WW2 cDLC even similar to SOG would be awesome

dense grail
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I'd welcome a ww2 cdlc I mean IFA3 does a great job don't get me wrong but we lack a nice good big ww2 map like the size of altis

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If there is one... well hit me up

sweet edge
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how would you define a WW2 map? Most of eastern/european maps suit that like Cham or Leskovets from GOS which are considerably big

jade otter
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Someone showed me a script one time to delete a lot of the modern terrain objects from altis

vivid root
normal light
vivid root
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I watched it as a kid on TV

normal light
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They would, however, have to really balance the planes. They would basically be the stars of the show in a Gulf War setting

vivid root
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The first and second Chechen Wars could be interesting as well as scenarios

torpid hearth
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but yeah it's kinda like mike force right now. too many air assets not enough AA

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bring out the SAM's

normal light
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Ya…but it’s the 60s so options are limited for mikeforce

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But the 90s? Man, skies the limit on SAM systems

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However….I think it would a very vehicular focused CDLC if they made it

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Tanks and Jets were the main show of the 1991 war

torpid hearth
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Idk the SA-2 in SOGPF works pretty decently

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They just haven't implemented it into mike force yet

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Also i'd love to see Migs in mike force for air to air fights

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I'd kill for Korea tho. With early jets and decent weaponry it could be a lot of fun

jade otter
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I’d like to see a non American focus

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Spanish civil war comes to mind instead of doing a ww2 thing

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You could also do a six days war, Iran Iraq war

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Soviet afghan would be likely but i feel like that would be kinda meh

wraith sleet
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asia civil war? CDLC

hallow parrot
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Asian themed is really one of my wishlist. Maybe a modern/near feature Japan

devout turtle
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a modern day Winter War Finland/NATO vs Russia on Finnish mountainous borderlands with heavy snowfall would rock imho

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Special Jaegers vs Spetznas fighting on ice floes

ebon sedge
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Ooh that'd be cool, imo as mentioned before a 2035 expansion cdlc would be quite cool

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Also I'd be super down for a good WW1 CDLC sippy

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since that setting isnt covered well for arma 3

wide steppe
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Any more modern conflict. WW2 assets are only usable for WW2 as barely any are left for future use, while things in the cold War could then be used by major nations, today by 3rd World and insurgencies

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Having more usability for same assets is what I find most important, e.g. GM T-55,made for East vs West German theme, but usable everywhere up to modern and near future setting

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While something like a Panzer 4.. Not so much

normal light
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I mean, you could use them in early Cold War settings, like Korea, early Vietnam, the Arab Israeli war ect.

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Or hypothetical “Cold War goes hot” scenarios during like, the Berlin blockade of 1948, or the Cuban misslie crisis

wide steppe
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Only Korea and Arab Israel, and only very limited assets.
I meant that cold War assets survived waay longer past their expiration date than ww2 ones

normal light
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T-34 would like to talk to you

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Also, the same could be said for most of SOGs assets

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Most of its stuff was only used in Vietnam

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the Czech DLC at least you can make like Balkan war and maybe some 1990s stuff (especially with the US spec ops)

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Also,WW2 has a lot of assets from its entire duration.

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Armies of say, 1939 are a hell of a lot different then the ones in1945

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There’s a lot you can do with it.

wide steppe
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T-34 isn't used by any nations today

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Those tanks maybe are used as stationary turrets, so I've heard from Africa - but actual T-34s are nothing short of Museum pieces for a long time now. Even then the T-34 lived very long indeed, but is rather an exception to the rule than the opposite

normal light
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So, you want something of say, the early 2000s?

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IDK if a operation Iraqi freedom CDLC is in good Taste

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An operation Anaconda DLC would be neat, but again, probably too soon.

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I’d bet some Arma players are actually Vets of those conflicts

wide steppe
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I want anything from 1960 to today. Bonus when it's not America (directly) related. Top 3 things would be Syria, Ukraine, and Yugoslavia - but all of those are not gonna happen most likely

normal light
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Ya…Syria and Ukraine (especially Ukraine) would be rather….boring

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You can’t really simulate the complexity and long duration of “Hybrid Warfare” in Arma