💣┇weapons-gadgets

[chilly granite]

Id rather them just give it to the only class to never have a new specialisation

That also happens to be a movement based class

Grapple makes more sense on medium since light doesn't have enough hp to use it anyway

[indigo nexus]

Assuming shockwave turns out to be very good, I would be willing to support a ~50% reduction on its impact on enemy players, plus... let's say 20 self-damage within most of the radius

but I don't know if that'll actually be a sensible strategy

[chilly granite]

The biggest problem will be medium mobility rather than impact on players so I'd rather if it just had giga self damage than any nerf to enemy player effectiveness

Knowing embark +5s cooldown kekw

But yeah, grapple has always been a problem for light because light is too fragile from balancing for cloak and dash, to allow grapple, which has a much greater vulnerability window, to be good

Moving grapple to medium enables meds to skip jump pad/goo, which then allows much more gadget diversity on medium.

Even with shockwave you can't skip pad if you're trying

[timber sparrow]

rate my crosshair

[chilly granite]

Sw has a smaller vulnerability window than grapple, although larger than dash and invis, so it would allow light a new spec that's more usable than grapple.

It would need to be more powerful on light probably though, although not by much. Maybe 15% more self boost?

Honestly they just need to give grapple +30hp and be done with it

Fuck medium why does medium deserve my grapple? They can suck nuts

Light hasnt had any new spec ever, and one has never been viable against functional enemies

Give light shockwave and grapple both and nerf dash and give light 200hp

And btw, wtf is hoverpad? Has anyone found an actually good use for it or is it just a meme?

Fuck it, give medium thermal vision as a spec as an apology

That'd be funny as fuck

[indigo nexus]

I don’t see why it needs to be so effective versus melee players. Against ranged players it’s largely just disrupting / interrupting anyway, it doesn’t need to be as potent as it is now imo.

[chilly granite]

It doesn't need to bash melees to be effective against them,as long as it bashes you away far enough you can safely shoot them

Offensive use of it is bait and stupid mostly

Like grapple owns melee because you just grapple 30m away and pewpew they dead

And this shit can do the same, even with no offensive boink

[indigo nexus]

Sure, but enemies running away at least doesn’t mean that you’re trapped. I would hugely rather the enemy medium backs away than I would I get nullified in front of the three of them.

Lights already do that, after all

[fleet rock]

(Sorry for the late reply, just woke up) I'd do it to heavies and lights too, not just mediums. Mediums were by no means my only target, especially since medium had more loadout options to counter me anyways already. However, now mediums are the only class with a 100% effective counter to my entire playstyle, even in 1v1s (except for spear heavies, which nobody mains anyways cuz it's terrible)

[chilly granite]

The boink is way smaller if enemy has velocity into it anyway, so I'm not sure how big a problem it really is

I might be wrong about offensive use being weak overall so I want to wait and see what happens before I make a firm verdict

Also, lights should be the only class with hard counters in general because they're the easiest to snap the neck off

[fleet rock]

You struggle against turret mediums? Those are almost as easy to kill as heavies. Getting demat-ed is more of an inconvenience than an actual counter, too.

[chilly granite]

But the game should also have less hard and more soft counters

The change to data reshaper is fucking joke

Totally unneeded, what we actually need is more soft counters for all classes to shields

Heavies best soft counter to dome is

Dome
RPG
Face

That's not good balance lmao

Every single pro game

Heavy drops dome

Enemy heavy drops dome because it's their only counter KEKW

[rigid nimbus]

Hm

[tardy light]

bro, just shoot their dome out of the air before it deploys. Skill issue

[smoky barn]

You can do that?

[chilly granite]

Yes but I've never seen anyone do it

Also don't know how much hp it has

I've seen it die form explosive in the air before it deploys

250hp lmfao

Someone at embark needs to be fired immediately

I remembered it was a huge explosion I did not realize it was 250hp explosion

It was like double c4 and breach charges too

Dome shield literally makes a shield why on earth does it need to have 250 hp

Oh wait I'm dumb that was probably the hp of the shield not the emitter

This is what I get for looking this shit up when I should be sleeping

Can someone go practice range and shoot a dome emitter for science

[faint steppe]

I do like the change but mostly because shields have basically one meaningful counter which is Glitch. And it's still limited to closeish range.

Maybe just make it so a reshaped Dome can't be shot through by either team. Keeps the survivability intact while nerfing it's offensive benefits

[chilly granite]

They need to just make to so all gadgets activate on contact with shields

If frags explode on contact with shields, every class now has access to a 140damage nuke to clear off shields

Not hurt the inside but clear it off

Gas would pop outside, but spread inside, acting as a soft counter

Pyro would spread on the surface, burning it super fast, and be a harder soft counter

This would also help diffenrtiation between barricade and dome, because what bounces on barricade sticks to dome, and what bounces on dome sticks to barricade

Frag Vs C4

Right now dome is just better than barricade because nothing sticks to it

To that point, data reshaper now hard counters both of them

[faint steppe]

Fair, I just doubt they will ever do that.

Also, as long as Medium has basically 2-3 must pick gadgets I doubt any other will see significant usage outside of more casual lobbies where anything is viable. We will see how much usage Reshaper will see

[chilly granite]

Shockwave allows skipping goo grenade imho

Not certain yet but I expect

[faint steppe]

Somewhat yeah, but the Heal beam still seems like the better pick, at least currently. And Goo just offers so much beyond just stalling

[chilly granite]

Reshaper, breach drill, breach charge should be good barricade counters

Meanwhile they should be weak against some

And frag etc should be good against dome

Nobody ever bitches about barricade because barricade has an array of fun and interestibg ways to counter it

[faint steppe]

Considering how limited our balancing changes are I doubt we'll ever see huge changes and more varied interactions between gadgets.

They seem genuinely afraid of actually shacking up the meta. I did understand it before the Major but it's been months now

[chilly granite]

Shockeave/goo not about stall to me, about survive

Shockwave stall not very consistent from what I've seen but I've not tried much

And if you consider a hmm comp

Light is only still meta because of glitch grenade anyway

So a medium with shockwave, pad, reshaper, fibs, probably op af

Other medium has classic m loadouts

That's where I'm expecting meta will be in a week

Pego can u go test dome emitter hp for me?

[faint steppe]

I think you underestimate how strong Lights DPS, healing, traversal and flanking potential can be, especially if you don't have your own Light to counter them.

I have heard people saying Light will be out of the meta for months now but it's still just as useful. But personally I think it's still too early to see how Crossbow/Shockwave will change thing up

[chilly granite]

Brother new gun has more DPS than arn

[faint steppe]

Sadly, I'm not home rn

[chilly granite]

H+ and gateway are big sacrifices which is why I'm not sure

Some teams absolutely will prefer the light for h+ and gateway

We might even see a meta where light plays h+ gate goo

And SW med plays reshaper pad fib

[faint steppe]

Yeah, it's stupid but it's not just about that. Light is just incredibly strong if you don't have your own pinning them down. Most scrims still seem to be HML but like I said we'll see

[chilly granite]

Yeah meta won't settle at all for at least a week, people still gotta learn to use the new shit

But sw does allow a medium to act as a light in combat 90%

It's better mobility than dash by a wide margin

[fleet rock]

As a light main, light is by no means competitive anymore. Medium currently out-classes light in everything but movement speed, unfortunately. Crossbow 2/3 shots light (out-dps at med range), shockwave means you can't close the distance (counter to light close-range), and sniper light just isn't viable unless you're capable of using it close-range just as well as long-range. I'm not saying the meta has been determined yet, but the future of light isn't looking too hot at the moment.

[neon barn]

i got a good name for it
the ''donut'' crosshair

[faint steppe]

I'm also not yet sure about SW tbh. It's strong but very selfish and doesn't offer as much survivability as pre nerf Demat while offering insane traversal and decent utility.

But Medium usually isn't a very selfish class or at least doesn't perform well at being one

[smoky barn]

Nope

[radiant thicket]

NOW IS FULL CL40 AND CROSSBOW VERY NICE EMBARK YOU FCUK THE GAME

[smoky barn]

huh?

[chilly granite]

It offers similar survivability as dash if you use it well, it's just a learning curve

Dmat is simple to use for survivibailty but sw needs a lot more brainpower to not dash in the open and die anyway effectively

[faint steppe]

It's definitely similar but Dash still seems more controlled. The benefit of Demat was that Lights usually weren't able to follow you therefore negating the regen disadvantage. I wouldn't be so sure that SW offers the same benefits in that regard

[chilly granite]

Medium hasn't performed well as a selfish class because two of their specs are selfless and the third is a meme

[chilly granite]

Sw has SIGNFIICANTLY better vertical and horizontal mobility than dash, so you can absolutely disengage from a dash light with it enough to regen up

You have to consider that a light needs to use dash to win the DPS race against medium too

[faint steppe]

Demat has historically been rather selfish while also offering great team synergies. Pre nerf it was often used like Dash for hit&run gameplay or coordinated pushes

[chilly granite]

So they're not gonna be operating with full charges in a normal fight

[chilly granite]

Demat is a meme not turret lol

Breach drill + goo grenade is a demat that flashes the enemy for me

[faint steppe]

Fair, but Lights usually don't chase until they have already damaged you. And their whole kit is built around engaging first

[chilly granite]

For sure, but again, if they jump you, SW will allow you to break their DPS immediately and give you the opportunity via second charge to disengage or re-engage depending on how low you are

[faint steppe]

Demat pre nerf was amazing. Post nerf it was viable but outclassed by Beam. And personally I have yet to see a point in using turret

[chilly granite]

Turret is extremely powerful area denial

The problems mostly come from it falling over

Hoverpad turret is probably (turret specific) meta actually, since it won't fall over, and it won't be as affected by breach

[faint steppe]

We'll see. All I'm saying is that I have yet to see that consistently in any real matches

[chilly granite]

The other problem with turret is that a lot of players use it terribly because they don't use it as team oriented area denial but as a selfish ai girlfriend

[faint steppe]

There are simply too many ways to break los on turrets. And choosing it as a spec gives up much better alternatives. Demat still had more utility in my experience

And Hoverpad is just too costly of a setup

[chilly granite]

Demat is selfish but its also a meme, like, it just doesn't provide spec power

Neither does turret though

Like I can play breach bow and I have more power than old demat lol

The only real power on demat was probably the headglitches tbh

Like I know it's nerfed but dmat has never been a problem for me to deal with ever

I do not think there is a level of buff that would make demat scary to me

[smoky barn]

It's good for disrupting steals

[faint steppe]

Demat had a fairly high skill ceiling to keep you alive, keep up pressure and to coordinate pushes with your Heavy. It has been infinitely more useful than turret imo. But again, both were outclassed by Beam (since Demat nerf and Beam buff) so it hardly mattered.

[chilly granite]

I understand what demat is good at

I still dont think it's actually strong ever

[smoky barn]

what if only the demat user and their team could go or shoot through it

[chilly granite]

That's my point

Selfish medium is shit because the only selfish spec medium has had

Is shit

[smoky barn]

it's a team game...

[chilly granite]

Oh god now I'm gonna have nightmares

[faint steppe]

It's always difficult to pinpoint what exactly makes something strong imo. I do think Demat was amazing but it also paired exceptionally well with the guns at the time e.g. buffed Cerb.

[smoky barn]

your welcome

[chilly granite]

Yeah I think that was more buffed cerb being a problem than demat being good

Demat was just the tool for the job, not good

If medium had thermal bore or breach charge with cerb, I suspect that would've been meta with healbeam

And thermal bore and breach charge are totally acceptable power level for a medium gadget anywya

[faint steppe]

Ultimately, neither Demat nor turret will be meta. And the recent change to Demat was a huge nerf so it will see even less usage.

I also will bet money on Healbeam continuing to be meta especially if your Heavy is a good player. SW has an insane skill ceiling and will potentially be a good pick for Mediums that carry/perform well but I'm not yet convinced that it will be better than Beam in evenly skilled matches. But again we'll see and it's interesting to speculate about it

[chilly granite]

I think it comes down to if beam or h+ is the better healing option

H+ has more burst heal but less sustain heal

If h+ is better in the meta, then light runs heals and med runs sw

If beam is better, either light is dead and we see hmm

Or beam is meta over sw

I do think light is dead though

The only edge light has right now is h+ and gateway, and gateway is somewhat mitigated by having double jumppad

The sw med can pad their teammates, and then pick it up and bounce themselves to their team to replicate gateway pad for extreme team macro movement

[faint steppe]

I can't agree with that but I'm also fairly certain that Crossbow will get changes

[chilly granite]

Not for 3 weeks KEKW

I think in the meta until first balance patch, light is dead

After first balance patch, I don't think embark is gonna do anything reasonable, so I still think light is dead

[dawn rampart]

whats yall favorite weapon gadget /meta

[faint steppe]

Like I said, I wouldn't be so sure about Light being dead. But ultimately I can't predict it and you do have some fair point

[chilly granite]

If there's any bet I'll take it's embark being stupid

[chilly granite]

Flashbang, I'm 2/3rds to lvl14 skin

[dawn rampart]

thanks

[chilly granite]

It's fun as shit watching people walking into walls

[dawn rampart]

you actually cant see anything when that shits popped

[chilly granite]

It takes practice to land good flashes, u want it to be both near them and with line of sight

Youll see health bars on decent hits

[faint steppe]

Their balancing team is definitely funny. It's also funny to see them performing the same exact way in Arc

[chilly granite]

Whoever is their balance lead genuine needs to get their brain checked

It's gone missing

[faint steppe]

It's genuinely interesting how they have had two insanely successful live service launches and then just make some of the most baffling decisions imaginable

[chilly granite]

Like, how can they not notice a correlating between everyone in arc and everyone in the finals constantly complaint about their balancing practices? Not even their decisions, their practices

Like their balancing schedule and the severity of changes, both positive and negative, is always insane

[faint steppe]

I definitely understand that it's easy to judge from the outside but even just simple things like their communication are disappointing most of the time

[chilly granite]

Here's the thing, theres easy to judge from the outside and there's objectively stupid

If you like to change few things at once so you have more data, you need a faster schedule than if you change a lot at once

You can't do a crazy slow patch tempo and only touch a tiny fraction of the surface area at the same time

[faint steppe]

Also them randomly nuking certain things and doing nothing about other things (or doing the most nothingburger changes -> seeing they don't work out -> nuke it anyways after spending months)

[chilly granite]

Exactly. These are not "easy to say from the outside"

This is very obviously bad practices

And 99% of the time, they don't change nuanced stuff that matters, but rather the least nuanced change, or the least significant change

Repeater has a broken recoil pattern giving dead straight hipfire? Nerf the ads

Grapple isn't good enough at keeping light alive to be viable? Can't give it more acceleration, or a faster projectile. -1 second, so in low skill lobbies grapple can be even more toxic to play against, and it's still useless in high skill

Dash has too much acceleration, making it at least 1 guaranteed miss even against a perfect human? And the intenal cool down is so low that normies with bad screens can't ever hit? Can't reduce the internal cool down so there's a bigger vulnerability window after a dash, just nerf the total cool down which is totally irrelevant to anyone who doesn't ADHD spam dash like a fidget spinner

[faint steppe]

I do think they have a certain vision for their "perfect meta" and don't particularly know or care about the rest. They just seem genuinely afraid of actually causing a change. They should just go wild maybe even test out changes in dedicated modes if that's technically feasible

[tardy light]

250 hp? that cant be true. maybe it takes more dmg as environmental? ive seen it get shot out suprisingly often
nvm i saw your edit

[chilly granite]

Dash pad has too much macro mobility making grapple irrelevant? Can't nerf dash's accelestion so that there's less distance gain from dash pad combo either

[chilly granite]

Nah I was reading wiki it was the shield HP not emitter HP

Can u test the emitter? Wiki didn't list

[tardy light]

I used to think there was a bug where my dome was just not deploying because of how often it would get shot out lol

[tardy light]

i dont have anyone to test with unless you want to lol

[chilly granite]

It's technically easy, they've done it for ltms a bunch (dash dagger Halloween mode for example)

I mean, it might be technically hard but if it is they have bigger problems than balancing can fix

[chilly granite]

You should be able to shoot your own dome emitter

[tardy light]

im just wondering if it has different hp when deployed vs when a projectile

[chilly granite]

Shodultn

[tardy light]

i guess i could chuck it up and try to air shot it but its probably easier with a 2nd person

[chilly granite]

Afaik there aren't any gadgets that do

[tardy light]

ok maybe when i get back on ill test the item hp, and ill also remove the fuck ass line on the TK wiki page that says they have great mid air accuracy lmao

[chilly granite]

Yeah that pissed me off lol

"passable" air accuracy at best

[chilly granite]

Yeah and part of the problem is that they try to enforce that meta rather than just trying to let it be one viable option

Great example is glitch grenade revert

Glitch one charge was causing a hhm meta

And rather than just buffing other aspects of light or medium or nerfing shields

They revert glitch to two charges lol

[neon barn]

i love RPG for destruction

[chilly granite]

The logic behind 1 glitch was sound

They just needed to not be wimps about light being so crap its not worth playing without glitch lol

[neon barn]

i also like the sonar grenade

[chilly granite]

Boo sonar

Boring and weak

It's only good for making fuckass teammates realize the enemy exists

[faint steppe]

They realized it would be too much work lol

[chilly granite]

It wouldn't be, just give light the +30hp they deserve

Fundamentally if your playing for money why are you going to risk being two shot without the ability to respond?

[neon barn]

as someone who uses light+sword
i wouldn't be so opposed

[faint steppe]

This might be the "fundamental change" coming in S12

[chilly granite]

The payoff for bringing the only class that can be reliably instakilled by every class, has to be huge, to justify risking financial gain

[kindred gorge]

They should realistically rescale health/damage ratio for everyone and maybe even everything

[chilly granite]

Hard countering the most op shit in the game, dome, winch, mesh and healing

That's good enough, and that's glitch grenade on two charges

With one charge, sometime you miss a heavy or a medium, and then you're just a waste of space instakill

[lucid cave]

Guys is shockwave good

[chilly granite]

Broken op

[lucid cave]

Also when are they gonna add thermal vision back, I haven’t seen it in a while

[chilly granite]

Assume never

[chilly granite]

HP isnt fundmanetal unless you're stupid (embark is so maybe)

[faint steppe]

It depends. If they would actually rebalance HP and guns across the board I would see it as a fundamental change of how the game is played.

[neon barn]

yeah for jumping and for like making distances between enemies

[chilly granite]

+30 to light or grapple isn't fundmanetal, but rebalancing everything would be

[lucid cave]

Ah I see, I’ve been using heal beam a lot so I’ll try it out

[neon barn]

that thing is now in the past and may never come back

[faint steppe]

Exactly and they said they want to bring it closer to their "initial vision". Whatever that means

[lucid cave]

😭

[neon barn]

sucks innit

[chilly granite]

I'm assuming it's some degree of physics or some such

Some kinda technical stuff that wasn't previously viable

[faint steppe]

Could be. Would make sense in regards to sunsetting PS4

[chilly granite]

Hopefully not terminal attack

[chilly granite]

Most of its isn't even that bad it's just a few catastrophes

Like, doing more than 45 damage on a single shot without spread, projectile or other BIG Downsides is problem

Honestly revolver is crazy underrated, just bodyshot with it and play with your team and lights die instantly? It's twoshot bodyshot and long as you have 2hp chip, and it's 0.43 Vs 0.75 on repeater

I think people just see big headshot number and try to headshot which is super sketch when you have so few bullets and poor fire rate when you can just peek and dunk people with bodyshots

Mediums biggest problem is that embark refuses to give them a normal, not op weapon

And then when the obviously op weapon is op it gets nerfed into the groundn

Cough cough pike, repeater

Also medium has the highest skill floor, so it feels worse because you're worse at playing it

But medium has too much hp so it's also harder to get better, because when you blunder position, you survive, only to die 7 seconds later

Where light and heavy just die if they blunder position that bad

[woven saffron]

w

[stable bloom]

How long has the light class thermal vision been in re work for?

[tardy light]

@chilly granite you cant shoot the dome emitter when it's fully deployed

nvm i think you just cant shoot a friendly one. i cant hit it in air either

maybe this really needs 2 people to test

[keen raven]

yes(at least 3 seasons)

[shut bane]

thermal is just kinda busted on some maps tbh

itd be a must use on the new map as well

[stark juniper]

Some of the movement with the shockwave seems a bit too much for medium imo

And that crossbow

So smooth

[kindred gorge]

Okay peater was bs though, but Iargely agree

[kindred gorge]

It’s good if you ask me, medium finally gets a dueling spec just like light and heavy have

[vale ermine]

i stg the cross bow is too op

[sick sun]

Came back to the finals, after taking a 1 season long break, I realized now I should've checked in on the game cuz think feel different in the best way possible.
Also, having trouble finding a good medieval build for each class, any tips/guides?

[primal stream]

I’m so happy that after returning from my break since S7 sledge is good ol sledge again.

[tidal flame]

they nerfed the MGL

its more forgiving for newbies but i get punished for hitting direct shots

its a matter of killing a light vs having them escape with literally 1 health\

[hearty solstice]

is there a tierlist for the best weapons of each class somewhere?

[sudden pewter]

Minigun buff fucks

The extra ammo is so good for confirming kills, really makes a difference

[frosty token]

I also thought that buff was spectacular. 50 more ammo is a big jump by any metric. It also helps me feel better about Heal Beaming a Mini Gun Heavy.

[ivory mango]

Me and some friends went triple minigun, and absolutely cooked

We erased an entire building just by defending

[white parcel]

Does anyone know why head to head is gone?

[eager wasp]

no clue

[slow linden]

I genuinely can't get a good fucking game in because every fucking game the enemy has cheating smurfs with fucking 30 gamer score and my teammates don't have fucking fingers😭

[wild zenith]

am I the only person that finds throwing knives to be significantly easier to use than bow?

[slow linden]

That's because they are,they're literally identical on alt fire head shots but they can actually be used for chip damage too because their primary

[olive galleon]

They have a different trajectory and delay

It mostly depends on which one you're more accustomed to

[grave spire]

Nerf the xbow

Too overpowered

[last steeple]

It should be nerfed a bit ye, but if you struggle get at range

It has like 25 meters range, that's a lot but still past that it's pretty bad

[viscid carbon]

Slower RoF and worse hipfire there it's balanced lol

[indigo nexus]

I don’t see why you’d reduce the hipfire as opposed to some other change

[viscid carbon]

Arguments can be made for the recoil and projectile over hitscan

[indigo nexus]

That is currently like, the singular unique thing about it

[viscid carbon]

It has good hipfire and super fast ttk

It's a V9S on medium basically

[indigo nexus]

It’s more like a P90 with less recoil / dispersion

[viscid carbon]

Idek what role they wanted this thing to fill ngl

[arctic agate]

Question, uhhhhh I come from season 2 sooo which is better now m11 or mp5?

[indigo nexus]

They wanted it to be a flexible brawling weapon I think? Based on how they described it in the trailer

[viscid carbon]

Crossbow is better than the class' dedicated close range weapon lmao

Also it just kinda feels off

[slow linden]

If that is really true then it's far more unbalanced than I originally thought,I doubt it tho

[indigo nexus]

The M11 is more “meta” due to its very good in-air accuracy and high recoil specialisation

[viscid carbon]

It's like the feel aspect for it wasn't finished

[arctic agate]

Tbh the only thing the mp5 had going was the sight (back in season 1 and 2)

[viscid carbon]

It sounds incredibly flat both when shooting and reloading, the recoil behaves a bit weirdly in the sense that it doesn't have "smoothness" to it? I'm not talking about the amount of recoil though

[last steeple]

Cool medieval weapon role 🥀

[slow linden]

Point still stands it's crazier than I thought,graphs mean very little to me tho,raw gameplay is what matters

[indigo nexus]

You cannot gauge properties of a gun remotely accurately from gameplay

a collective of people can establish a significant viability relationship, but you won’t properly understand a gun’s traits like that

[viscid carbon]

Also did anyone notice you rack the charging handle even on tactical reloads but only the hand moves and the charging handle itself stays completely lol

[arctic agate]

Wait is the tazer finally horrible??

[pastel wyvern]

nullifier?

[arctic agate]

What. 9H I'M LOOKING NOW

[pastel wyvern]

they gave it a whole ass rework

[slow linden]

You very well can with enough testing,that's how the graphs exist,but one graph made by one series of tests isn't enough that's why you do enough testing to make like 3 graphs and the truth is somewhere between them all

One single graph from one series of tests is still just an opinion

[indigo nexus]

Please explain what the other graphs would be?

[arctic agate]

It looks... Bad😭

[slow linden]

Could be Similar Could be wildly different,Could be barely different,depends on how the dice roll

[indigo nexus]

What dice??

[slow linden]

Everything is a game of chance,reality cannot be defined by only one series of tests

[indigo nexus]

difference is mainly that M11 is objectively better close up but XP is actually pretty easy to use at mid-range, though it isn't super well percieved right now I think?

[indigo nexus]

What chances are you talking about?? Stop being so vague

there is no randomness here

we are not estimating continuous variables from measurements, these are static values correct to what the game uses

[slow linden]

Spray patterns,counter play on the opponents end,the variables cannot be defined outside of a raw number,but that raw number could be miles above or below it's actual potential

Graphs are nice,I acknowledge them,but I need footage too,I need to see it in action with my own eyes to truly taste the apple of knowing

And you do too,you're being content with incomplete information

[indigo nexus]

Spray patterns aren’t included here. Nor is “counterplay”. What do these have to do with this?

I can’t define everything about a weapon with a graph for sure, that’s not what it’s supposed to do. But every other trait a weapon has is based on its stats

[slow linden]

They should be because the graph can be influenced by those variables during a study

[indigo nexus]

A study of what? Of the weapon’s stats, no

[slow linden]

Not just stats alone but the sum of the weapons whole function beyond the stats,if you truly want just stats look at the stat bars in the equipment menu

[indigo nexus]

Those are incomplete and incorrect.

[indigo nexus]

Well, that’s not what I’m doing

[slow linden]

So are your graphs

[indigo nexus]

They are more complete than that, and correct

[slow linden]

Then the graphs cannot be used for a discussion on Balance If they cannot even define how their subjects fit in the game

[arctic agate]

To be fair, the stats are ment to show you what the weapon can do, not how to use it

[slow linden]

More correct,but still kinda wrong

[indigo nexus]

Why not? They don’t have to completely answer the questions of viability in their entirety to be useful

Because they show factual properties of a weapon they are useful above trying to glean those from experience. There are some properties which you could only get from experience, that’s fine, I’m not trying to replace them, but they’re very hard to measure as a result.

[slow linden]

How something is used and it's maximum potential is everything in a discussion on balance,a few numbers on a screen cannot carry that discussion,they're nice in addition but nothing to base a whole argument upon

[arctic agate]

That is true good point

[indigo nexus]

If you had a perfect and utterly informed system you could define every weapon in the game’s viability by just 1-3 numbers

[indigo nexus]

Depends on whether the argument is based around what they show

[slow linden]

They are useful in addition but they are not a complete study on their subjects,they are part of that study and discounting them entirely is bad,but only considered them over other variables is much worse

[slow linden]

What they show isn't the whole picture so it's only natural they're met with skepticism

[indigo nexus]

For this to apply you first need to bring in other variables to consider.

[slow linden]

You really can't

[indigo nexus]

Of course, but it’s a hypothetical where you could.

[slow linden]

That's the entire point of a discussion,related but not mentioned variables are free to be moved in to elevate the discussion

[indigo nexus]

I agree, so if you want to criticise my contribution then do so by bringing in extra considerations

[slow linden]

Works in a vacuum but in practice it leaves a blurry picture

[arctic agate]

Okay basically what I'm seeing is remove winch acknowledges stats and takes them into consideration, but prefers to see gameplay and what variables could affect the weapon and solar would rather use stats and take gameplay along with the variables into consideration. Basically you guys are opposites from what I'm seeing🥲

[indigo nexus]

It’s a hypothetical!!!

[slow linden]

I have and do where I can,but I simply ask that you diversify your windows into your point at hand,take more clips

[indigo nexus]

Clips of what? For what purpose

[indigo nexus]

You said that a presentation of most of some weapons’ traits means very little to you and didn’t elaborate, I am trying to encourage you to elaborate

[slow linden]

Hypotheticals are an important factor,my statement wasn't a direct criticism of you,more of a baby talk explanation for any onlookers,especially ones that could be coming from #👂┇game-feedback

[indigo nexus]

🤔

[slow linden]

And I elaborated that they're important but I need to A take part in my own studies which I'm working on,and b see some footage of the tests in action,that is all

Have you ran your own extensive tests?

[indigo nexus]

Tests of what exactly?

[slow linden]

Pretty much,opposites can rarely ever come to agree on anything but the things they do agree on are usually closest to truth

[arctic agate]

True

Remove prefers to use in game experience so see how it plays while solar uses stats more to based their opinion on

[slow linden]

In this example,crossbow and p90 and how they're similar,and why crossbow could be overtuned,but also why it could be balanced,you must take in every possible bit of information to have a complete opinion

[indigo nexus]

I don’t have a method to perform tests further than to determine weapon stats.

This is why I don’t put some kind of “viability rating” on my graphs, I don’t have a way to measure that

[slow linden]

Practice one,because they are important factors of this type of discussion,ignored by either party leaves the discussion incomplete and could lead to overreliance on personal biases

[indigo nexus]

“Practice one”? I don’t understand.

[slow linden]

You Said you don't have a method to perform the tests asked of you,I ask you to find one and use it so that we may both find truth

[indigo nexus]

I don’t have the resources to execute such testing.

I would need a huge sample of volunteers

[slow linden]

You cannot play the game? You don't have a trio to play the game with and conduct alternating side by side tests in shooting range?

[indigo nexus]

What could I hope to gather by doing this, exactly?

[slow linden]

A complete picture of the truth,peace of mind,a complete opinion on the balance of the subject of your study

[indigo nexus]

We’re not going to get anywhere if you keep being this vague, but there’s definitely no way you could get a complete picture of the truth of weapon balance by going into the shooting range with two friends.

[slow linden]

No,not a complete picture but a far less blurry picture,I asked of you to play a variety of matches in casual as well and perhaps ranked if you deem it relevant enough

That will decide what is closest to truth

[indigo nexus]

This sounds counterproductive. You’re going to be swamped by biases if you do this.

[eager wasp]

isnt going off of a few games kinda not good, theres a lot of factors that play into something

[slow linden]

Ranked sure I agree,but I was referring mainly to cashout variants and maybe pointbreak,DO NOT CONDUCT TESTING IN POWERSHIFT

[indigo nexus]

How well you feel like you perform with a weapon against whoever the matchmaker decides to put you against is so random that taking that information in, even if meticulously recorded, is typically going to move your stance in a worse direction

[slow linden]

That's why I said multiple matches to find the average

[indigo nexus]

If you recorded the behaviour of thousands of people in this way, then you’re getting somewhere, you can make various statistically significant observations

[indigo nexus]

Infinite matches would still be counterproductive.

And if it’s the amount you could play in one day, it’s just gonna be noise at best

[slow linden]

Like 10 or so matches of each chosen gamemode can paint a good enough picture for discussion

[indigo nexus]

I think that is an awful way to form balance opinions.

I’d rather have a few pieces of the picture left unpainted than fill them in with random noise

[slow linden]

Unless we factor in luck,then do another series of tests,and another,and another and your rough draft of an opinion will become polished

[slow linden]

The noise is part of the picture,it's important,things are not incomplete because they are imperfect,they're incomplete because of lack of effort to reveal the picture

[indigo nexus]

You may as well ask chatGPT what it thinks and take that for your balance stance. No amount of effort is revealing this via such weak methodology.

You need a large number of people no matter what if you want anything meaningful

[slow linden]

And staring at numbers and never living them isn't even weaker methodology? Pick up the keyboard (or controller)data slave,play the game

[arctic agate]

Dude sonar grenade is actually too op🙄

[slow linden]

It's a crutch but it's not op,very lazy people rely on it,I prefer tracking dart

That said lazy gameplay is not interesting gameplay

[arctic agate]

Ofc, I'm saying this as scummy cloaker but it's just so lazy and takes zero skill

[indigo nexus]

No, how could it be? It is accurate information.

[slow linden]

You are not scum for running cloak,you only punish the blind and deaf

[indigo nexus]

Playing the game does not give you fine data to work with. At best you can only find data that applies to you personally

[arctic agate]

I'm a season 2 player back when it was heavily scummy😭

[indigo nexus]

And even then it requires you to put a lot of effort into data collection and interpretation, can’t really be done on reasonable timescales if you don’t make learning the finals balance your life’s work

And I’m fairly sure that you don’t do this at all because you never cite any figures from your “testing”.

As far as I can tell it is just vibes-based inference on vibes-based testing on limited, subjective data

[slow linden]

It's an incomplete picture,the whole picture,many people's whole pictures are important,I am just conducting my study,finding my truth,the real truth is where the most people's pictures overlap or at least very close to it,the most close to it

[slow linden]

It never was,as a heavy main and a user of cloak myself it was gutted because the people could not open their eyes and ears just a little bit and conduct proper counterplay

[indigo nexus]

Show me the results of your study

[slow linden]

I'm actively conducting my study,which will take days I'm asking you to conduct your own so that I can compare and elevate my opinion,the more studies that exist on a given topic the closer to truth that study reaches

[indigo nexus]

If the methodology of them was good then yes, but I think you are describing a sort of study community which doesn’t exist. I am not sure even one person is applying any kind of rigour to this.

[slow linden]

I intend to lead by example and encourage the same in others

[indigo nexus]

I eagerly anticipate seeing your example

[slow linden]

If it works or not is up to me not them,I cannot make someone do something,I can only ask that they do something

[slow linden]

As am I yours

[indigo nexus]

I am not attempting such a task

[slow linden]

An attempt alone would be enough

[indigo nexus]

enough for what

[slow linden]

To compare,not in your favor I might add if you don't complete it

[indigo nexus]

It would take too much time and produce nothing of value, no.

[slow linden]

Then you forfeit the whole argument as this requested information is integral to it,my information cannot do anything if there's nothing to compare and contrast it to and vice-versa

[digital vector]

😅

[indigo nexus]

No? Your requested information is simply not practical for anyone to obtain, this doesn’t mean I forfeit anything. I have not made any assertions which rely on this.

Ideally you are comparing and contrasting your information with a null hypothesis.

[arctic agate]

Solar grenades and prox sensor are two of the most skilless gadgets I think I've ever seen🥲 it just dumbs down to throwing it or placing it randomly and you get pings like????? What is the radius so big🥲

[slow linden]

Ehhh prox sensor is fine and counterable,if you're hit by a recon grenade you're probably fucked if the lights sort of competent

[arctic agate]

I just wanna flank and do my hit and run bs in peace🥲

[slow linden]

As a cloak player prox sensor and the tracking dart should be the only ways to inflict the recon debuffs

[arctic agate]

Sensor grenades are aids

[slow linden]

Use tracking dart and go from hit and run to high value target hunts

[tender rapids]

Am I the only one who thinks the crossbow is overtuned?

[slow linden]

No

Community is about 70/30 on it

70 saying it's overtuned

[tender rapids]

I think its top 5 weapon ngl

[slow linden]

It can kinda do everything so yea

[tender rapids]

True lol

[tardy light]

You dont think playing the game is necessary to form a balance opinion? And that stats alone is enough?

edit: I don't intend for this to be a strawman, im sure you play the game too lol, but Im just wondering if you really think you can make balance judgments in a vacuum

[arctic agate]

Why does the flamethrower take away like 60% of my health if I get lit for like a second?

[tardy light]

Stats dont tell you anything about the situations you're likely to be in which makes the numbers have meaning

how long of a window you get between encounters (makes reload time meaningful)

how long an enemy pokes out typically (makes high damage per shot meaningful)

what range typical encounters are at (makes damage drop off meaningful)

there are more points like the above, im sure youd agree

so stats alone are good for a vet but you need to be a vet first to interpret them

Edit: I think recoil is the one stat you need to play to learn though

[tardy light]

Because youre playing Light

[arctic agate]

Still Jesus🥲 way too much I could kill hit teammate that took like 40 damage off of me and if the heavys flame thrower even touches me I'm dead??? Why does it do sm afterburn jesus

From the few hours I played it seems that tank and medium both counters light while light counters poor mistakes it seems

[tardy light]

light is very hard

The best thing to do if you’re getting demolished by a really short range weapon like flamethrower is to realize they’re stuck with it and play distance

[arctic agate]

But then I'll only be able to poke them whole my team mates struggle to fight a single medium

[tardy light]

Depending on your gun and aim
poke is lethal

Get better teammates

Also by distance I don’t mean like 50m lol. Just don’t get close to the H

[arctic agate]

Especially in a building where the cash out it I genuinely cant do anything but just accept my death

[tardy light]

Last resort: try playing flamethrower

[arctic agate]

Same with CL spammers... Actually ew bro I hate the CL is icky

[tardy light]

Or CL

You will realize their weaknesses

[arctic agate]

Idk TBH as a light main I hate other lights bc DEAR GOD they don't know how to play light they have never heard of hit and run bs ever in there life oml

Not to mention the 3 light curse🥲 I'll see a medium and a heavy and be happy until both switch to light like bro🥲

Omg I sound like ottr ew

[abstract solar]

they play nothing but the db and sword running around with invis

[viscid carbon]

m11 dash too

[arctic agate]

agreed

To be fair it's hard to play as light and not be scummy your entire purpose is to be annoy asf

[abstract solar]

I am loving grapple atm

[indigo nexus]

I don't think it's generally helpful provided you understand the game's gameplay

[slow linden]

Low base dps + fire dot that does decent damage and light has like no health,chuck a smoke canister at him and fight him in that and you'll cut his dps in half I'm pretty sure

[boreal axle]

What crossbow is the X-8 Chimera based on? Like the IRL name I mean.

[forest birch]

Whoever at embark said to buff invis and the grenade launcher I hope your pillow is always hot

[eager latch]

this gadget is crazy

[dense solar]

its crazy fun

[plain fog]

Skill differential is a thing for longevity of the game

[stark juniper]

True, but I feel like I could use demat as a dueling spec. Now I feel like Im playing light dash with more health

[karmic violet]

So I might be crazy. But I swear the dual swords for the medium, when you shoot them while blocking, it would do reduced damage, and then deflect. Now I swear I’m doing 0 damage now, and they’re still deflecting. Is nullifying the damage intentional?

[indigo nexus]

I don't know what you mean by this.

[indigo nexus]

I noticed this while running the model 1887 yesterday.

[kindred gorge]

It just doesn’t pop up the health bar anymore I think, the damage still goes through

[karmic violet]

That’s a weird change. It would just kinda make the riot shield kinda obsolete in a sense

If it does do 0 damage now

[plain fog]

I dont want bad controller players being able to winch me with ease

[cunning wyvern]

Check game feedback

[zealous scaffold]

Do u guys think sword gameplay for lights is ruined since now we have hoverboards? Or you think you can deal with it?

[plain fog]

Just dodge them

[tame aspen]

290 days of waiting for light content

[timber sparrow]

It was ruined when they clamped it imo, since it rewards m1 spamming more than anything

[cunning wyvern]

Yall should check game feedback

[plain fog]

I havnt noticed any issues with hoverboard. The couples times I've seen it used i just shoot them off it because they have zero cover

[timber sparrow]

Havent seen any massive hoverboard plays

[plain fog]

I think its very niche like googun on walls

[cunning wyvern]

It would be really niche if you checked game feedback

[plain fog]

If you use it like the googun for head glitches where you just peak your head out then it's probably good but that's a whole slot gone

[timber sparrow]

Itll definitely be one of those things that get better overtime as people learn sneaky angles to abuse with it

[cunning wyvern]

It would get better overtime if you would check game feedback

[plain fog]

I think your only hope is to use fire or has as a sword light. Nobody really uses hover yet so idk

[karmic violet]

You can use it as above the head cover, and paired with the new specialization it adds a ton of new movement capabilities, especially when trying to keep your own momentum. It’s not really a gadget good on its own. More to pair it with other things

[fleet rock]

The Shockwave is what destroyed sword light, not hoverboard. As a sword light main, I can deal with enemies on hoverboards just fine, but Shockwave is a nightmare to go against.

[plain fog]

Facts

Shockwave is good for those peaky swords and daggers

[karmic violet]

To be fair, medium didn’t have a reliable way to get away from melee until the shockwave

[plain fog]

A lot of camping playstyles for defense just gets balanced by a simple gas or fire nade

[tardy light]

goo nade and jump pad

[plain fog]

Behind a barrier, fire nade. Behind a wall, fire nade. Behind doorway, fire nade. They should buff fire nade tbh

[karmic violet]

The sword user could just also use the jump pad and follow, and since they’re in your face, goo grenade won’t be reliable on its own. And if it’s a light, they can just dash and catch up immediately

[plain fog]

Grapple sword 😎

[tardy light]

shockwave is more effective but M was not like defenseless

[karmic violet]

Of course not defenseless, but they had less options compared to the other classes and what is typically used

[fleet rock]

Medium weapons outdamage light by enough that sword light vs fcar medium used to be a fair matchup.

I would constantly swap between medium and light last season depending on how I felt like playing at the moment, and as a medium I've never had an issue dealing with sword lights, because it only takes about a second of mag dumping to obliterate them.

Now, as a sword light if you encounter a medium with Shockwave your best bet is to get away as fast as possible.

[plain fog]

Depends on the sword light

[tardy light]

theres a reason people dont play sword in ranked

[plain fog]

Flamethrower is however more annoying then sword light

[fleet rock]

Exactly (except for me cuz I'm a tad bit addicted)

[tardy light]

i respect it

[fleet rock]

My ranking has tanked though this season from the medium buffs, so I might actually be forced to swap to full-time medium to remain competitive.

[tardy light]

or you could play H or gun L

[umbral cliff]

That's mainly cause Flamethrower turns Lights to ash from just looking at them.

[haughty sluice]

I want multihit on dagger stab🤣

[umbral cliff]

I just wanna run while charging the heavy stab tbh. I'll take the multihit tho.

[haughty sluice]

At least don't drop a chage while you climbing. Ladders kill me more time then I want

[umbral cliff]

I can't count how many times I've got on a zip or ladder and got turned into swiss because I'm basically a sitting duck. The sacrifices I make for that high of hitting a backstab melee combo.

[slow linden]

False

Actually if they use winch or mesh yea

Winchclaw needs to go

[sand monolith]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1009830578545246213/1404458296991023177/1754919347350.gif

[slow linden]

Matter so poop

[lucid bloom]

Does anyone have tips what loadout to start out on Medium?

[slow linden]

Akm,anything but turret,turret is ass,defib,jump pad,hover pad

[lucid bloom]

Thank you

[slow linden]

Could use frag grenade or gas mine over hover pad

[real nebula]

I don’t think the crossbow should be hitscan. The damage is fine, fall off range is questionable, but most importantly the crossbow should be a projectile where you need to start leading your shots at certain range with bullet drop at even much farther distances.
Also idk why FCAR got buffed lmao I can’t wait to see the entire community complain about FCAR now.

[zealous scaffold]

The thing about this game is that (this might me a dope ass idea) but, as ARC raiders, it’s kind of a social experiment talking about the debate on the “perfect balance” it should have, the thing about this is that, there is not such a thing.
I mean, for example, as a healing medium, I do have quite trouble while dealing with sword players, or flamethrowers, but at the end of the day, I will manage to win some matches even though, if not, I wouldn’t be playing that style, I think we as players are used to want instant results and even more in a such chaotic game as this, so, at te minimum frustration when our strategy fails, we idealize its completely ruined. And I say this because I felt this way, but I learned to find joy on this, by making small adjustments to widgets mostly. I’m not trying to say that there not happen unfair Things. But I think embark builds a very challenging sence of constant evolution and I like that, I think we should learn to apreciate that because it’s just the way live is, constantly evolving…

I mean I love feedback, it’s nice, but I see so much hate very often

[kindred gorge]

It’s actually decent post buff

[slow linden]

Turret got a buff?

[kindred gorge]

Yeah they tried to even out the pick rates for the lower two classes so all the specs except dash and heal beam got buffs

Demat actually got reverted back to the original 3 charges iirc

[slow linden]

Nice

[kindred gorge]

The thing that miffed me was that the buff for cloak was just increased uptime and doesn’t actually solve any the problems that make it unreliable

[slow linden]

My dumbass friend skimmed patchnotes so I didn't know that

Gng usually reads them all off for the crew in the party

[kindred gorge]

Yeah I was the opposite, I clued into the gadget stuff but never actually looked the weapon changes

[sudden pewter]

Next season bro trust

[slow linden]

Hey those couple extra seconds help a little bit(still not the cloak buff we all deserve)

[kindred gorge]

I think that cloak either needs a visibility reduction or needs to affect nearby teammates like vanish does. I think the noise should stay as is though

[muted condor]

Do not be telling new players to use defib

https://tenor.com/view/omni-man-invincible-gif-1158255077563046515

[slow linden]

I did it just for you pookie bear

[muted condor]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-gif-24341837

[slow linden]

Lmao

[patent galleon]

unfortunately most weapons can kill a light with like 3 shots cuz the whole meta with a light build is to deal high damage and move out before they can deal damage

this why i never understood ppl who use invisibility

[umbral cliff]

Heavys when they see an undamage wall:

[patent galleon]

THERMAL VISION WAS SO PEAK BRING THIS SHIT BACK

[umbral cliff]

I think invisibility's main point nowadays is safer escaping and occasional scouting. The shit is WAY too loud to use for ambushing.

[placid slate]

Spear let's you recreate the goo ship now

[arctic agate]

I mean I'm okay with that I just wish that I could live if I catch on fire for a second or get gassed like bro it's actually so annoying be caught on fire for one second just to die bc the afterburn lasts for so long

Also edit from me playing today

[stoic garden]

the jukes are funny

[lyric jackal]

this has been something I've hated for so long. invis makes you easier to hear? what sort of balance decision makes the stealth specialty tell nearby players where you are, when they typically wouldn't notice? it's not like it's super hard so any anyways. surely there's better ways of keeping a specialty that isn't meta in check. the only lights i see are all running dash

i guess I haven't played basically any of season 10 though. did the duration buff push cloak past dash in usefulness?

[stoic garden]

the duration buff is kinda... imperceptible

[lyric jackal]

figures

[indigo nexus]

Even with data reshaper being actually good now, plus every other medium having shockwave..?

[wild zenith]

its hilarious that stealth makes you easier to detect when you are behind someone

[indigo nexus]

It went from being the most counterable gadget in the game to the most counterable gadget in the game, but more

if anyone who sees it has one of the many counters its stats no longer matter much

[hardy dust]

Cloak is probably never gonna get to that point unless dash gets absolutely gutted or embark fixes what they did to cloak by not making it super visible

[lyric jackal]

that's what I figured

[kindred gorge]

I think this is necessary though

I like to frame off Spy from tf2 as balance as both mechanically reward the player for sneaking up behind an opponent

The difference is that finals is much faster paced so the balancing aspect of spy (loud uncloak noise, not being able to shoot while cloaked or uncloaking) would make it feel like a stutter or a dead space, so you need some other means to make sure that a player doesn’t get a free kill regardless of skill level for going invisible and then releasing up someone’s butthole

Just like with spy, you need to drop the invis at a safe distance and then close the distance. Light doesn’t have the disguise to cover this but its speed advantage more than makes up for it

[muted condor]

The hard part about invisibility in games is it’s hard to make them actually good and not super annoying to fight
Somber from OW is decent but people hate playing when she exists even though she isn’t over powered

[kindred gorge]

Cloaking device should be fully invisible unless you are getting shot or are right next to someone but it should be extremely noticeable if you getting right next to or behind someone with the noise

[wild zenith]

I disagree with tf2 being slower paced than finals

[kindred gorge]

You can afford the time to set up as spy in most circumstances but if you wait even 5 seconds too long and you could miss a chance to steal a cashout

Like operating on a sub 2 minute time limit to get the job done is a much bigger restriction that we realize since we are accustomed to it

[wild zenith]

i dunno, theres a whole lot of time spent waiting for someonr to come to you

[kindred gorge]

I mean that’s the benefit of getting a full or near time wipe in any game like this

[wild zenith]

like yeah, tf2 is slow if you play shit maps like dustbowl

[kindred gorge]

I mean in fairness there’s not any staggering in cashout and the whole “synced respawn timer” also removes some of that

[wild zenith]

finals i guess is more like explosions of high intensity action in between periods of downtime, and tf2 is more like "always on" constant mid intensity action

like in finals, when you get an opportunity to push, you gotta push ASAP, but before that opportunity is usually a slow paced shootout where youre peeking cover

in tf2 you can kinda push whenever you want if you have the skills to survive

[muted condor]

Wait you all don’t have to defend your cash out from constant 3rd parties with zero down time?

[wild zenith]

i dunno man i never found finals to be an especially fast paced shooter

[patent galleon]

js depends what ranks you play and what game mode

i've played cash out matches where each team was averaging like 25 kills each

[muted condor]

Cashout is the only game mode

[patent galleon]

i miss head 2 head

[smoky barn]

This is the weapons and gadgets chat 🥀

[muted condor]

That’s actually not true
It’s a secret general chat where the people with more than two brain cells go to escape the troglodytes in the normal chats

[compact tundra]

Shhh don't tell the oranges that, they'll begin to multiply

[smoky barn]

how would I know 🤷‍♂️

[muted condor]

That’s why we just bully them into leaving like normal

[compact tundra]

You're not meant to know that, it's camouflage. It wouldn't work well if every one knew the true state of this chat

[smoky barn]

please don't bully me, I promise to be a good boy

[smoky barn]

ah, oh well

[muted condor]

What’s your opinion on defib?

[smoky barn]

It's good for rezzing while you need to cover or when you need to rezz multiple people. Unfortunately, people don't realize that and rezz and run away, often getting whoever got rezzed killed.

[muted condor]

This guy can stay

[hazy hemlock]

I love looking in here sometimes cuz yall have braincells. Stay intelligent gamers you're the last bastion of civilized convo in this server

[smoky barn]

yay!

[gleaming aspen]

how do i turn off aim assist again

[smoky barn]

in settings, probably controller tab

[gleaming aspen]

oh rip im blind had to go through it 4 times lol thanka

[smoky barn]

I don't know why, but sometimes I can have flawless movement, and then the next match, I'm running into walls constantly. Same for aim

[gleaming aspen]

i find that if i notice im doing shit at something i end up focusing on it more but end up doing worse

idk if its the same for u but it goes away when i forget about it lol

[smoky barn]

It works exactly the same for me, if I don't need to lock in, I lock in like crazy. If I do need to lock in tho, I play terribly

[gleaming aspen]

oh rippp hope it solves itself with time for you goodluck

[muted condor]

We only have a few but that’s a few more than the people on #👂┇game-feedback

[hazy hemlock]

That channel feels like a cesspit of people who lie about balance concerns due to skill issues ngl

[muted condor]

100%

It’s just people that go there after losing a match and complain about what ever beat them

[smoky barn]

Right now, it's mainly people whining about h2h not being in the game and SBMM

do they not realize the player count is mostly sweats?

[bitter ember]

This crossbow is gonna make me quit the game again on god

[smoky barn]

relatable, mainly because it's so annoying to have teammates try to use it

[bitter ember]

Try?

[hazy hemlock]

Ngl I just want dash nerf reverted thats where I sit😂

[smoky barn]

right

[bitter ember]

That shit is so mindlessly easy to use it's genuinely upsetting.

[smoky barn]

real, I think it just needs a damage nerf or a range nerf

[versed finch]

Don't worry, this usually happens when a new weapon is added. Give it a few weeks, and I guarantee it'll get nerfed

(Besides for the ARN-220)

[last steeple]

Js hipfire nerf would be great, and projectile maybe

[versed finch]

Don't play medium so I don't know how it feels to use, but as a light main I feel like that thing kills me within .6s which is infuriating

[smoky barn]

Can we all agree that seeing your teammate run guardian turret is one of the worst sights of all time

[last steeple]

It has basically no recoil and spray that makes it super easy to use against moving lights at close range and it's sor frustrating

[versed finch]

I love full 8 stack guardian turret medium teams in point break all guarding the same vault

[smoky barn]

I meant in cashout and quick cash, but seeing that in point break would be hilarious

[versed finch]

It's all pain 😭

Embark, pls tell me Season 12 is the update you give light a jetpack

[last steeple]

Best tip I could give to counter xbow as a light would be to play at range or playing poke weapons like the best weapon oat: BOW

[versed finch]

ALL IM ASKING FOR

[versed finch]

Naah, I like the Bye Bye gun (SH1900)

[last steeple]

Grapple would be better in every way 😭

[versed finch]

BUT IMAGINE, YOU GO FRICKING FLYING

[last steeple]

Works well too if you manage to get close before melting 🤣

[versed finch]

Not for effectiveness, but for the funnies

SH1900 actually is busted now, especially in the new point break map against the new medium play style. I drop like 39/10 games with it

[last steeple]

Could be super cool if made great, but you would be such an easy target

[smoky barn]

Xbow?

[last steeple]

Nah dude ts xbow is broken too I'm scared

[smoky barn]

lol

[versed finch]

Light needs:

• True full auto shotgun
• Dual SMGs
• Single Load Grenade Launcher

[last steeple]

I should try it maybe it seems fun

[versed finch]

Then I'll stop complaining (Or just give me a jetpack, that works too)

[last steeple]

Matter isn't auto enough for you? 😔

[smoky barn]

heck naw, only single load grenade launcher

[versed finch]

I love the matter with all my heart, but I want to be even more annoying and spammy

Obviously add a 1800 RPM 400 Mag full auto shotgun, that does 2x9 damage

[versed finch]

Burst Fire???

FAMAS x CL40 when???

[versed finch]

Ngl a burst fire grenade launcher could go hard

I'm just desperate atp, light needs SOMETHING

[smoky barn]

never speak again please

[hazy hemlock]

Beat i can do is a gun buff that they will nerf instantly within the week

[last steeple]

Valid take actually

[versed finch]

So true

V9S is a perfect example

[hazy hemlock]

Also never think of another new weapon again just beg for 6 second flat dash CD like the rest of us

[versed finch]

-# He doesn't know im a cloak player

[last steeple]

True but I think it already has so much fun things, even the off meta weapons or gadget are great

[hazy hemlock]

Its still good but like man medium gets its shit for multiple seasons sometimes before nerfs

[versed finch]

CB01-repeater 😭

[hazy hemlock]

Yeah but they are bad rn cuz light is bad rn. Better off running movement med

[smoky barn]

Don't even bring up repeater. I hated when that was meta

[versed finch]

I'll play anything on light besides Bow, Dagger, and M11

[hazy hemlock]

Technically still is just fcar and crossbow are overshadowing it

[versed finch]

FULL DISRESPECT TO ANYONE WHO PLAYS THOSE WEAPONS

But ya, light is full of funny little weapons that are hell to play against

[smoky barn]

they didn't nerf it? Embark PLEASE take away the repeater

[versed finch]

I couldnt even play repeater in its prime

Also, RIP thermal vision, it was a nice 3 seasons I got to use you, OG cloaking device, OG V9S, and Smoke grenades in powershift

[smoky barn]

As somebody who loves the model, the repeater is just a better model and it's actually annoying 😭

[versed finch]

Legit model is the best

Ngl I love every shotgun equally, they're all super fun to play

[hazy hemlock]

I mean it lost some damage but it only effects heavy. One extra bullet lmao

[versed finch]

If heavy basically got the Heavy update season 3, Medium got it's update season 10, then season 17 must be lights update!

[smoky barn]

model is one of the most rewarding guns to learn imo

[versed finch]

Long range shotguns are peak, no debate

Even the KS-23 which I still to this day believe should have a headshot modifier

4th spec for light needs to be a jetpack tho, that's the one thing I'll never back down on

But apparently season 12 has been in the works for a long time and will be their new 'biggest yet' season, so I'll just wait till what, September?

[last steeple]

Nuh uh infuser and gate are so great

[versed finch]

Run both of those in my load out, can't go anywhere without them

[smoky barn]

it is?

[versed finch]

Even if both of them have been catching nerfs, easily still the best gadgets

[versed finch]

From what they said in the season 10 launch stream

[smoky barn]

I cant wait, what do you think it's gonna add/rework?

[muted condor]

The current state of the game MMH is going to be all you see tell the next season

[versed finch]

They're gonna probably remove light and give medium thermal vision at this point

[muted condor]

Embark has also never fallowed through on a promise before so I wouldn’t put any faith in what they say

[smoky barn]

I wouldn't complain lol

[versed finch]

All seriousness, I think that's the season light gets its new spec, prob a new all class gadget and a new weapon for every class

[versed finch]

Fair

Honestly I would take anything I get from embark, though I just really really really want a jetpack and a drum full auto shotgun

[muted condor]

“MGL and melee reworks are in the works and coming soon guys!”
-Embark season 5

[versed finch]

Or dual SMGs, won't say no to those either

[versed finch]

Well MLG is probably coming around season 16 (Patch Notes had a comment about that)

[smoky barn]

yeah, there's gonna be a melee rework in season 11

[muted condor]

Yeah, they are definitely going to make meaningful changes soon. Just one more season of filler just one more season guys

[versed finch]

"Supposedly" remember 'AlL tHiNgS aRe SuBjEcT tO cHaNgE'

[muted condor]

Just one more grand major and we’ll get a nice qol update

[smoky barn]

I would rather have reworks and changes than more content fr

[versed finch]

Reworking something nobody uses is as good as adding a new weapon tbh

[muted condor]

Just gotta give them more time and 28 more recolored cosmetics at absorbent prices

[versed finch]

DONT REMIND ME OF THOSE

[muted condor]

The number of recolors is actually getting to be absurd

[versed finch]

I buy only the cool ones or the Alfa Acta ones

[smoky barn]

don't forget adding another level to each weapon with a new skin, even tho only 1% of players are gonna actually reach said level

[versed finch]

Lower the dang prices of those sad skins to like 50 multibucks

[versed finch]

I somehow have rank 11 on pyro grenade, so the system isn't very consistent, but legit it's impossible to get high ranks on weapons

[muted condor]

Needles to say I was not impressed with the battle pass or new cosmetics that came with this season

[versed finch]

Besides for the free knight at the end, and the VERY final bonus page, it's all C tier at best

[muted condor]

That’s generous

[versed finch]

Embark, don't overhype mid sruff

WHERE'S MY SPACE THEMED SEASON

[muted condor]

I was really hyped for a medieval season then they drop the ugly ass fantasy season

[smoky barn]

pyro grenade is the easiest one to grind for no reason at all

[stoic garden]

bonus pages rn lmfao

[versed finch]

TELL ME ABOUT IT

[versed finch]

😭 I'm a sucker for Alfa Acta skins don't judge me

[smoky barn]

exactly, and to make it worse, new map is locked behind point break and tdm. it also doesn't even have a castle you can enter

[versed finch]

I bought the MGL skin when I don't use the MGL

[stoic garden]

im done with alfa acta i want JEWERLY

[versed finch]

That could go hard

I was really hoping for a bunch of cool different knight skins, maybe a king skin aswell

The new melee skins in the shop are alr

[stoic garden]

i want GOLDEN TEETH, BEJEWELED KNUCKLEDUSTERS

[smoky barn]

right...

[pale hollow]

I would like a revolver skin where you hold it with one hand

[faint steppe]

Revolver doesn't have one but I'm fairly certain Light V9s has one

[muted condor]

This season quickly went from my most hyped to almost the biggest disappointment

[pale hollow]

I main the revolver and i wish it could 2 tap light with bodyshits it is so anyoing leaveing the 1 hp

Bodyshots

Leaving them

[muted condor]

That’s very much intentional

[faint steppe]

Definitely, but it's a balancing necessity. Revolver is already very strong just inherently inaccurate

[pale hollow]

It would be cool if they made a dom pedro skin for it in my opinion

[hazy hemlock]

There's a skin where you one hand it and the other hand pulls the hammer back

[pale hollow]

The horizon

I have it but i lt has more visual recoil

Im not that much fan of how it looks

[bitter ember]

You haven't played long if you think medium weapons get nerfs quickly

[sudden pewter]

The barricade does hard as fuck though

[sudden pewter]

The Alfa Acta armor helms being a matte grey or brushed metal is criminal because they go with fuck all.

[versed finch]

See, he gets it

[sudden pewter]

I’m hoping later in the season we get more armor that visually isn’t so different to the Alfa Acta stuff.

[sudden pewter]

Love the fantasy stuff but it’s so….not the finals

[bitter ember]

Also weeks is way too long for the crossbow to not get neutered

[sudden pewter]

Many of the BP cosmetics could have been done better. I want to believe they intentionally tried to stretch from what we expect in the game. Ultimately resulting in a very mixed bag

[muted condor]

Not even good fantasy

Looks like Temu D&D knock off shit

[sudden pewter]

Not disagreeing. The ultimate undead fella has a reskinned premium outfit(IVADA Zorro), and probably the ugliest god damn skeleton head I’ve ever seen.

I exclusively purchased the ultimate BP for the 25% XP to reach the AA drip faster. Only 2 of the rewards interest me 🙁

[versed finch]

Season 7 had an amazing BP
Season 8 had an alright BP
Season 9 had a pretty good BP
Season 10 has the most mid BP I've ever seen

And if they want people to buy the ultimate battle pass, they'll have to try harder

Honestly if they just went full medieval this season would be a lot better

[last steeple]

Whaaaattt I can't agree with you, season 10 is insane, season 9 was pretty cool too

[sudden pewter]

I’m in love with the theme of S10, but unfortunately quite a bit of what they made didn’t stick the landing.

• Cool Wizard set!
  Unfortunately it’s Blue/Purple so can’t be used with 99% of existing cosmetics. You wear the entire set or none of it.
• Jester Drip!
  But for whatever reason the ultimate variant is a palette swap and now he’s wearing a baggy T-Shirt. It’s your emo cousin with a jester cap.
• Alfa Acta Armor!
  But either the UV/Material is fucked, or they intended for it to be specifically used with the new uniform. The new uniform that has mismatched pants/top.

[muted condor]

The knight armor also sucks

They could have made some really cool armor that fits the game well but they completely missed the mark

[slow linden]

Rate the fit

[versed finch]

9/10 peak

[muted condor]

Fabulous

[muted condor]

Pretty good actually

[slow linden]

What about this one?

[sudden pewter]

That’s MY fit but I use the champion balaclava(?) instead of a gas mask

[slow linden]

I ran it before I knew you

I'm gonna swap the helmet out for the closed version of the helmet from the sponsor tho

[muted condor]

Alpha Acta mini gun drip

Real recognizes real

[sudden pewter]

I ran it first

[sudden pewter]

Dissun Minigun
You fool nobody but yourself Ishallah

[viscid carbon]

Fallen Valkyrie Odilia goes so fucking hard
Could use her black wings too

[sudden pewter]

If you’re going to spam, keep it in #⚡┇the-finals-chat

[slow linden]

And I was the first gooflame user,but something doesn't have to be unique or original to be great

[slow linden]

I've got the 50 boxes on my back,just waiting for my sweet sweet M2browning

[sudden pewter]

35 messages is not a big ask. If you can’t hold a conversation with someone, at least don’t drop S’s in everywhere like a wild animal leaving a dung trail

[slow linden]

I'm going to pull out your skull and beat you to death with it

[versed finch]

Damn... Not that it's not deserved, but harsh

#💣┇weapons-gadgets is the best channel in this server, no debate

[versed finch]

Isn't that the USA Minigun from the season 8 ultimate battle pass?

[sudden pewter]

<@&1012034066876473384> Dungeons please 🙏
(Single letter spam)

[versed finch]

Hmm I wonder where the original message went?

[muted condor]

I normally have the Alpha Acta one equipped but yeah that’s the BP one

[sudden pewter]

The rest are still here, so likely self deleted.

[versed finch]

Not that it's bad, I love that skin, but the Alfa Acta one rises above all

[versed finch]

Likely, also DO NOT EVER GO TO #⚡┇the-finals-chat

[broken mulch]

is it js me or has there been a heavy drought in ranked?

[versed finch]

I clicked on there, worst decision I've ever made

[broken mulch]

ive had one in my 6 matches

[sudden pewter]

It’s a shithole, why would I go there?

[versed finch]

Warzone...

[sudden pewter]

I haven’t done my ranked placements yet so I can’t comment unfortunately

[versed finch]

It's much safer here :D

[gleaming aspen]

im gonna be a pioneer to disprove this

your all bad and uh stuff

[versed finch]

I think it's everywhere, I've consistently gotten into medium + light only matches in point break

Heavy just seems to be a very low popularity class right now. This is probably due to the medium update, so people are still trying it out

[versed finch]

Don't make the same mistake as others, look at #⚡┇the-finals-chat

We need to keep this place safe

[tardy light]

But heavy is the coolest class :’(

[tardy light]

You have been banished to interact with the people in #👂┇game-feedback for 24 hours

[slow linden]

Other games have better ranked and mmr systems,why would I solo queue for a skin that I can just buy a better one of

[versed finch]

NO

PLEASE NO

[kindred gorge]

I got grind for the blunderbuss skin

It came to me in a dream and then a week later it was real

[tardy light]

the reworked gold skins were ugly as hell ngl

I prefer the new plat. And the gem ones are great as always

[smoky barn]

Yep 😢

[static arch]

Why is that

[kindred gorge]

The new map would lowkey suck for cashout though

Most maps tend to have the opposite problem where they are built for cashout (this is a very generous statement) and don’t perform well for the 5v5 modes so it’s catering to the game’s other audience

[dense oasis]

Crossbow.

What do we think? 👍 or 👎 or 🤷

[balmy belfry]

NERF IT BRO, HOLY SHIT

Me and my friends loaded in a 8v8, NOTHING BUT DAMN CROSSBOWS. and we fucking lost without destroying a SINGLE GOD DAMN OBJECTIVE

Crossbow needs a nerf, it's too strong. Like give it crazy bullet drop or something

[random depot]

I just wish to understand how one looks at those stats and goes ''Clearly hes the problem'' instead of just listening to what I said 2 rounds in a row

[balmy belfry]

Not hits ann

[random depot]

like I tell them im the heavy and they are mediums, just follow me. No they go off feed and then blame me

[balmy belfry]

THAT TOO

[random depot]

What level of degradation exists in their brain to allow that to happen

its ranked too, they even spectated me wipe 2 teams alone and defend a cashout

[dense oasis]

already feel like damage fall-off is pretty wild

[random depot]

Crossbow needs a hipfire accuracy nerf

[balmy belfry]

Naaaah, crossbow needs a nerf gng

[random depot]

the hipfire is ridiculous for the dmg. Effectively a pike on crack

the dmg is fine imo, Fcar on the otherhand got such an un-needed buff

[muted condor]

Mid cosmetics, adding new stuff that is not necessary when we have so many other problems, and defib is still in the game

[random depot]

I hate defib because of medium players having 3 braincells and a cumrag for a brain

https://tenor.com/view/for-gl-vemee-gif-19551068

POV: Average medium main

[muted condor]

I hate defib because my team mates don’t know how to use it and it’s annoying to be winning a fight and some mf uses the most boring gadget in the game to give them a instant win

[random depot]

its either an extra kill or the reason you lose

[dense oasis]

PVP players infiltrating friendly Stella Montis lobbies- wait, fuck wrong game

[plain fog]

Defib goated though

Just glitch the med trying to use it

[cosmic berry]

tracking dart medium day somewhere between 8 and 14 i cant ocumt i forget memory

[fleet kiln]

Hear me out blunderbuss cerebrus skin and martini henry 1887 skin

(if they can make a lever action rifle a musket anythings possible)

[slow linden]

Mosin avtomat famas skin?

[slow linden]

Genuinely shouldn't give you I frames

[indigo nexus]

I-frames are a bit unfortunate but I don’t think removing them would really help at all.

With good defib usage it’s not making a significant difference, and making it feel more frustrating for the person who got defibbed otherwise

[slow linden]

Guy gets revived In a poor spot at half health,you've killed the rest of his team,you should be able to kill him,he kills you before his I frames end,you should've won

[stoic garden]

i understand the hate but that has NEVER happened to me

[slow linden]

That has happened to me many times

[stoic garden]

though i can see this happening with burst damage like sniper etc

[slow linden]

Never a light tho

I'm too cautious of them

Fight rats like rats

[stoic garden]

i just reached 600 hours on finals 🔥

i wonder what the average for people who played since s1 is

[indigo nexus]

This is only possible if you’re one tap

I-frames are cancelled by any weapon, spec or gadget use

[slow linden]

If your half and they're half they just win

Because of I frames

[indigo nexus]

If they died with a full mag then they’d be at a slight advantage in a flat gunfight, but their inability to use any of the things in their loadout or determine the positioning of the fight would normally put you at a strong advantage

[indigo nexus]

This is generally a very slight advantage, definitely not as impactful as the negative aspects of being defibbed

[slow linden]

And I don't like fighting people who have been defibbed or being defibbed

[indigo nexus]

Why

That’s a fight you’re likely to win

[slow linden]

Because it's annoying fighting I frames and it's annoying when my dumbass medium is doomed and revives me to my death and runs away or immediately dies

Win or lose defib is boring and lazy gameplay

[indigo nexus]

I guess I don’t relate to the first part. Bad defib usage is sad though

[slow linden]

Defib is the easiest gadget to use effectively in the game,but unfortunately 80% of medium mains are either new players or they have 30 iq and no fingers

[fossil elk]

gg ez

[alpine sphinx]

i love this update but yet again the meta has not changed a single bit

long range poking still dominates and maps like kyoto are still completely unplayable if you dont play meta

i am PRAYING that embark is aware of these issues and that the S11 melee system rework will put an end to this garbage, because enough is enough

[stoic garden]

it has actually, light is replaceable!

[alpine sphinx]

light wasnt meta in higher ranks either, its position hasnt shifted

[versed finch]

Bro how 😭

I want more fun weapons on every class

I'll never stop asking for my full auto shotgun

[versed finch]

Class identity is completely gone atp. Honestly it started when in season 7 someone thought every class should have healing. Made medium less useful, so they thought why not then give medium some of lights mobility, and now we're here

Next thing you know light gets a mesh shield that barely limits mobility, but is just smaller and weaker

[plain fog]

If light got something like dual blades I'd quit

[empty vortex]

you dont take any showers right

[fossil elk]

Ranked

[fossil elk]

What is that?

[slow linden]

Touch plants NOW

[slow linden]

Imo sys horizon is far worse than Kyoto

[stoic garden]

i still think you're tweaking

[slow linden]

My win loss ratio on either map says otherwise

[stoic garden]

i will agree that the somewhat less extremely long sightlines and lack of fuckass cover make horizon a good and easy playground for pokers, but i think kyoto plays worse on top of that, while getting progressively worse as people's aim improves

[slow linden]

Idk Kyoto is ass but sys is shit

[stoic garden]

i take horizon as a low skill poke map, while kyoto requires a bit more aim (and resolution, good luck seeing through the bamboo at low res) to abuse the super long sightlines

[slow linden]

I can deal with Kyoto poke abuse,I cannot deal with sys poke abuse,there's nowhere to flank,there's no cover in rooms to play around

There's no props either

[alpine sphinx]

theres nowhere to flank on most points on kyoto either

• kyoto makes sniping across the whole map possible, while sys is limited to halves

also kyoto allows for MUCH easier high ground

[slow linden]

There's trees and rocks and buildings,sys just has buildings with nothing in them

[alpine sphinx]

trees and rocks are irrelevant since you cant leave once you are pinned

[slow linden]

On sys I can't win unless I use pokes or automatics,on Kyoto you can't win unless you use pokes or automatics but you can frag out with pretty much anything

[alpine sphinx]

just not true, both maps suffer from the same issues, kyoto just looks prettier

[slow linden]

I hate the asthetic of both imo

[alpine sphinx]

fact is they are both garbage and you shouldnt be forced to play on maps that categorically forbid you from playing a variety of playstyles

[slow linden]

I actually really like fengway and that one vaiiya cns map

[alpine sphinx]

nozomi citadel is the best

[slow linden]

A lot of people don't like it but I think it's the most balanced map

And the asthetic is dope

[stoic garden]

i only dislike nozomi because of the weird climbable geometry and that one room that has an alarm and the floor turning on when walking on it, basically makes cloak unusable there lol

otherwise i think it's pretty alright, i prefer other maps tho

my fav map is probably tied between seoul and vegas

it's funny that this channel is so homely to us that we wont even consider using #🌍┇maps

[ivory mango]

Fr

[slow linden]

Vegas good,Seoul is good

[livid cradle]

I like kotyo

[slow linden]

I've had fun on Kyoto,way more fun than sys horizon

Still a shit map

[versed finch]

Waiting for the Kyoto rework

[slow linden]

Waiting for the sys horizon rework

[stoic garden]

waiting for the winch deletion

[fossil elk]

What do you think about this?

Melee rework boring edition

sledgehammer
increase main attack damage to 140 but each swing sends the enemy back 5 m
and increase secondary attack damage to 240 but sends the enemy back 6 m

spear
increase the damage of the final attack in the cycle to 145 damage
Increase secondary final attack damage to 210

Riot shield
Whenever you’re not blocking your shield is despawned but whenever you’re blocking it blocks all damage types and the shield sizes increased by 30% and covers your feet and your turning speed is not hindered while blocking
(they can make it easily make it block melee because the dual blades can consistently additionally it can easily block flamethrower because the mesh shield can)

Dual blades
Deflecting does not damage you

Sword
Whenever you hit someone with a secondary attack, it doubles your momentum

Dagger
Increase secondary attack backstab radius to 180
While holding the secondary attack you movement speed is not hindered and you can sprint

[compact tundra]

Yo @sudden pewter @muted condor
My buddy wants to see your best Alfa-Acta skins, show me what thou has got

[tired lava]

Could we get some more skins for the P90? Purple? Dark Purple? One that honks like a goose when I reload?

[compact tundra]

Give us a goose pet that honks when we get a kill

You can't send gifs your a white role

[tired lava]

😍 🤌 No gifs. But I love it

[umbral cliff]

Automatically fire because of dagger

[smoky barn]

True, Kyoto shows us how rural maps suck for the game

[analog pewter]

The hover pad feels like a kind of waste of a gadget ngl

Like there's so few ways to move it around, and most of its novel use cases also necessitate jump pad, and putting yourself out in the open high above isn't that great especially when it has such low health, and most other cases a goo grenade can just do the same job better

[smoky barn]

Yes, I don't know what Embark was thinking

[analog pewter]

Feels like it's only gonna be used in low elo where people don't look up

if it was easier to move I'd see some value

[rough beacon]

I feel that if they made it a shield that you can stand on and shoot through would make it better but in turn the enemy can shoot it down (maybe give it like 300 hp dunno) and it will move with the player in the same y axis until shot down or deactivated. Just my thoughts

[chilly granite]

it needs like 1500hp to be useful at all

a whole team shooting at you will one mag 1500hp anyway

[rough beacon]

I guess

[chilly granite]

its beyond terrible

and most useless gadgets didn't get any buffs either

and the meta gadgets didn't get the nerfs they need either

defibs should've been a medium spec and rocket jump should be a light spec hot take

cl40 should've gotten rocket jumping in exchange for a damage nerf if they want medium to have rocket jumps

just giving cl40 knockback would've had exactly the same outcome but with more intersting tradeoffs

[forest notch]

Just got max level minigun

[chilly granite]

Like this update shows incredibly poor judgment from embark regarding all of the changes and additions

riot shield and dual blades gaining gap close, disengauge, and stall for free

the crossbow being a hitscan silenced pistol instead of a projectile weapon

the ufo just being unreal useless

medium being the only class to gain anything

pike not getting 2x headshot multiplier when it's been useless since it was nerfed

Dome shield gaining another hard counter instead of more soft counters

[viscid carbon]

Would you replace goo nade when using Shockwave? If so, what would technically be the most optimal replacement(s)?
Data reshaper got gigabuffed but honestly dome shields are not really threatening like they used to be, I rarely die because of it

[spring jetty]

broo shockwave + jumppad is so beautiful

traverse so much easier

[chilly granite]

data reshaper is a good choice because it expands barrel selection significantly

but there's a lot of options

goo nade isn't needed with shockwave since shockwave is disengage and stall, whiich is both of goo nade's jobs

[spring jetty]

kinda true I use shockwave for both of those reasons aswell as mobility

[chilly granite]

breach drill is probably good with shockwave, but glitch trap and gas mine both have interesting value

[spring jetty]

I mean its still good for sitting high up on walls on like being stuck in the open

[viscid carbon]

I still see the Data Reshaper as a niche gadget ngl
Even with the buff, dome shields simply aren’t oppressive enough to warrant dedicating an entire gadget slot to a hard counter

[chilly granite]

data reshaper was already mediums best unique gadget (competing with gas mine) beyond defib/jump

being able to clear a box wihtout exploding it is huge

and gaining extra choices from every single barrel is gamechanging

deleting c4 and breach charges from a cashout can often just give a free steal

[spring jetty]

data reshape was my first favorite gadget when I started the finals lol

[viscid carbon]

Yeah but you can just shockwave them off no?

[chilly granite]

shockwave is less consistent

c4's radius is fucking massive and will often still drop a box even when shockwaved, and shockwave is less stealthy

and again, you lose the value of reshaping barrels

you effectively have double the red barrels, double the gas barrels, double the fire barrels of everyone else

that's huge value

[viscid carbon]

Alright then, could you give a rundown of how to use Data Reshaper most effectively?

[chilly granite]

you'll work it out better trying it

But yeah, make sure you learn the circle of reshapment of barrels

then just try it out in a few casual games and experiment. Barrels are insanely strong and having a better selection of them is crazy op

even just chucking a gas barrel on point can often win a cashout

being able to get a fire barrel to clear gas from the point, similarly, can win an otherwise lost cashout

gas mine is arguably better than data reshaper as it has insane value for stall

explosive mine has niche use if you enjoy it, sanguine style

flashes are monster if you know how to make them hit

frag also can dish out crazy teamfight damage

[maiden ginkgo]

When will thermal vision be back

[slow linden]

Riot shield and dual blades deserve to be viable and good,

The crossbow is annoying and doesn't feel like a crossbow to use and be shot by i agree,the hover pad is pretty good what do you mean?? And I agree It was crummy medium was the only class to get anything

[smoky barn]

hover pad is actually useless if you go against a rpg user, which is every other heavy

[random depot]

I wanna data reshape RPGs mid air

[slow linden]

"Cl40 and mgl is actually useless if you go against a aps turret user"

Everything has a counter

Portable high ground is already an insane utility

[random depot]

Hoverpad is basically a glorified manhole cover

[smoky barn]

Yep, but what is rpg's counter? unless you can get an aps turret or dome sheild down where it will block all shots then there's nothing you can do to prevent an rpg user to not break down your hover pad, unless ofc you get them to miss or waste the rpg on another thing

[slow linden]

I've seen it used to make head glitches in buildings already,it has more use than just high ground,you can use it as a baby gate too

[slow linden]

If you intend to just camp high ground at all times and not have a counter then I'm sorry but you can't have that

Losing one platform isn't a death sentence the cooldown isn't bad

[smoky barn]

It can be if the enemy team is right under you lol

[slow linden]

Couldn't you just place another or your teammate place another before y'all fall much?

[smoky barn]

if you can find coordinated enough teammates to go on the hoverpad with you

[slow linden]

Coordinate with your teammates better ig?

[smoky barn]

and it's not that it's a bad gadget, it's that there's gadgets better than it

[slow linden]

Not at what it does

Defib is a cage,the sooner you discard it the sooner you'll improve

[smoky barn]

Fair, but tbh, as long as you know good positioning, you don't really need it (other than in monaco park)

[slow linden]

High ground is a must have on Kyoto or sys horizon

[smoky barn]

I should, but my teammates die very quickly. If I did replace it, I would probably just use grenade, gas grenade, flashbang or gas mine instead

[slow linden]

Solid choices

My medium builds are never without motion sensors,just like my minigun build

[smoky barn]

Agree with Kyoto, but in sys horizon, you'd be sticking out a lot. I think hoverpad's best in maps like Kyoto and other maps with low buildings

[slow linden]

Has indoor uses too,head glitches and baby gates

[smoky barn]

I might go with that, but everyone uses them so no need to have another motion sensor user on my team

[smoky barn]

I'd imagine so. tho you could just use goo

[slow linden]

If you have a goo gun heavy with the knowledge

[smoky barn]

true, 1 in a million pull fr

[digital vector]

😂

tho melee wepon shuld be cancelled

[smoky barn]

the new one? for sure, nobody likes melee

[compact tundra]

Melee is amazing, you are stinky and wrong

[smoky barn]

which is almost every melee player. Heavy melee is the only melee that's actually fun to play against

[compact tundra]

Heavy melee is countered by awareness and movement so it's the most fun for those skills.
Medium melee is beat by team play
light melee is beat by positioning and game sense
All melees are fun to fight just depends on what skills you find fun
Good aim will help with all, mis typed that

[smoky barn]

Which movement is my specialty. I'm also good with positioning and game sense, but dash sword requires insane aim

I still manage to kill them tho

[compact tundra]

Dash sword is a weird one cause depending on player it's either a double barrel with extra steps or a fucking movement demon with the ability to kill you in 100 different ways.
Most dash swords are just gonna be the double barrel with extra steps but if they know super lunges and combos then they're pretty scary to fight and really become a unique fighting style. If they know dash back lunges and gadget swap combos then they are a different beast entirely depending on how good they are with those techs and other techs I am unaware of yet. I just learned about dash back lunges and the gadget swap combos last night so still unpacking that and trying to fully understand it

[slow linden]

You're bad

[ivory mango]

https://tenor.com/view/idc-ratio-didnt-ask-cry-about-it-stay-mad-gif-13756437846027037034

[slow linden]

Imo automatics and poke are the least fun to fight for me except for maybe minigun or lewis,maybe akm

Like genuinely to the point of boredom

[compact tundra]

I love fighting minis as long as they aren't comboing with lockbolt, lewis is fun to fight, and what does bro got against the akm😭

[ivory mango]

Whenever I see a minigun pointed at me im running to Uganda

[smoky barn]

Thank you for your insightful words of wisdom

[ivory mango]

Ty

[slow linden]

No no akm is fine it's every automatic except those 3,and technically flamethrower I guess???? Wouldn't it count more as a melee???

[ivory mango]

Flamethrower sucks to fight against

[compact tundra]

Ah ok I understand now

[ivory mango]

Only thing worse then flamethrower for me is sworddash

[slow linden]

Not really I kill em all the time

[ivory mango]

Bc I play on low sens

[slow linden]

Sword was way less annoying before it got nerfed and reworked imo

[ivory mango]

I main close range tho

[smoky barn]

no, thank you

[compact tundra]

Na I find most weapons fun to fight against besides

Mini with lockbolt
A goated goo flame
Stacked weapons and turrets
The Defib train
Current F-car
Current M11

[slow linden]

I exclusively play close range,shotguns,revolvers, melee,and my main being goo flame

[ivory mango]

Revolver isnt close range tho right?

[compact tundra]

Ah and my two most hated bitches
P90 and Throwing Knives, may their mains have many hours of goo flame ahead of them

[slow linden]

More mid range

You can shred a light at range,that's about it

[ivory mango]

Noooo why p90 hate, As someone who cant aim for shit its my saviour

[slow linden]

It's annoying to fight,just like most automatics

[ivory mango]

Fair enough

[compact tundra]

It's a weapon that was built to counter already bad weapons. If be fine with it if they nerfed it's dmg a small bit and nerfed it's headshots a small bit more. It's just too good against already struggling weapons

[slow linden]

I like using throwing knives,but God are they horrendous to fight

[smoky barn]

same here. Those guys deserve to have their jump pads to never work when they place them at first

[ivory mango]

Happens to me all the time already 🙏🙏🙏

I used a lot more sledge and lewis lately tho, I guess im healing

[smoky barn]

not surprised

[compact tundra]

I hope they only fight diamond goo flames and goo sledges
I hope their jump pads always don't work on first try
I hope their gateways never place the second gateway
I hope all their goo nades and goo barrels end up stunning them
And I hope they miss every shot on their H+

[ivory mango]

Ha jokes on you I dont play light

[slow linden]

I'd be a diamond goo flame if I didn't refuse to play with randoms,low diamond sure but still diamond

[compact tundra]

You shall be sentenced to run only breach drill, APS turret, and hover pad

[slow linden]

Flamethrower can shred everything with the right trap usage and timed goo locks

[smoky barn]

I hope they never reach high enough to mantle

[ivory mango]

I meant I dont use H+

[slow linden]

Imo people who run Flamethrower without goo gun piss me off,they deny the weapon its true potential

[ivory mango]

APS and hover aint so pad in pb

[compact tundra]

They are without Goonade or jump pad

[ivory mango]

But no one in their right mind wouldnt use jumppad as a medium unless you have a specific cheese strat

[viscid carbon]

Even with shockwave jpad is mandatory

[ivory mango]

Fr, cuz like you can do so much with it,

Block doorways

Boost your whole team

And escape

[smoky barn]

facts, jump pad > zipline any day of the week

[tame aspen]

291 days of waiting for content on light

[cedar iron]

what is the cd on new medium ability? Shockwave or whatever it's called

[dense oasis]

I wish the red dot sights were a bit more visible. They're kinda dark, maybe a little splash of white or light pink in the center.
Or let us have a "Sight Reticle Color" option in our settings

[compact tundra]

People using the weapons and gadgets chat to ask questions and give feedback on weapons and gadgets, how despicable, what heathens

[compact tundra]

The wiki doesn't have info on it yet and I'm not at home to test so I'ma just give you a random number and hope I'm right
7 seconds

[cedar iron]

LOL I am sure you are right, because you wanted to help me out and that matters to me more than being factual. Thanks

[compact tundra]

Wait I remembered I have a clip of me using it, 1 sec

[analog pewter]

That setting exists already

[compact tundra]

So I used a metronome set to 60bpm in quarter notes to set a time and kept pace. From the second I used it, it took 13 seconds to get that charge back. I could be off by ~1 second give or take

[dense oasis]

Just saw that, thank you!

[cedar iron]

nice. Sick metronome implementation. Love to see it bro

[muted condor]

Give me a minute

[dense oasis]

Embark pls nerf metronome

[compact tundra]

Yea I'm an ape when it comes to technology, actual orangutan mentality but I do have 10 years of trombone under my belt so like metronomes I'm good with

[cedar iron]

10 years of trombone under your belt? It must be stinking hard

[compact tundra]

It's the strongest bad breath and oxidized brass smell you could imagine

[cedar iron]

(the joke was I was taking it literally meaning you kept a trombone in your pants for 10 years)

[compact tundra]

(And I followed up by telling you how bad that would smell)

[cedar iron]

the true question now is why does your underwear smell like bad breath and oxidized brass? Were you getting head by C3PO

[stable bloom]

The hell are u people talking about