🎮〕illuvium-zero

[tight kestrel]

depending on the elements utilities, it looks like T3 is less atractive than others
i think people loaded with silv2 will try to get multiple T2 or try one T4

[hearty cradle]

or hundreds of T1

[tight kestrel]

dont think so
T2 produces 4x more fuel than T1 and costs 3x
people would spend a lot on gas fees
and maybe T1 wont have much discount

[hearty cradle]

3 x T1 have 9 element nodes
1 x T2 has 8 element nodes

T1 and T5 has the same chance of scanning blueprint

imagine you have a 100 T1 scanning bp instead of one T4

[tight kestrel]

well.. thats what im asking... whats the utility of elements? is that relevant?

[hearty cradle]

i hope so
im banking on multiple T1 megacities

[tight kestrel]

ya, true, BP could make a difference... but im trying to use things that i can calculate... BP hard to tell... besides, scanning will cost fuel

[little moon]

Where Can i sell/buy silv2?

[glad relic]

uni

[tight kestrel]

true, megacity could be a thing in future... but not sure how easy gonna be buying adjacent lands

[hearty cradle]

good point on element utility tho

[hearty cradle]

my dilemma is:

• 2x2 of higher tiers, or
• 3x3 of lower tiers

[tight kestrel]

i would try to buy one land close to yours and i would sell you for 5x... cus i know u want it

[hearty cradle]

im gonna be such a lousy neighbor you gonna beg me to buy it from you

[worn bridge]

Yep that’s happening for sure. When you see someone owns multiples in an area, that’s where you want to buy.

[hearty cradle]

you cant see it

[worn bridge]

Oh really?

[hearty cradle]

multi wallet

[tight kestrel]

until they release more info, im just looking for the bigger land discount

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/guns-girl-shoot-gun-sniping-gif-17480772

[tight kestrel]

i assume they already done a fair calculate to price the different tiers

[hearty cradle]

tier 4 looks so juicy tho
damnit man dnt ruin my plan

[tight kestrel]

lol im thinking about whats the best strategy every day

[tall bear]

I thought the bigger the land the higher the scanning chance, did I miss something ? Where’s the info from please ?

[tight kestrel]

theres 300 wallets with 100 silv2
all of them gonna try to bid T4
40 wallets with thousands silv2
those will get multiples T4
maybe T4 wont have some juicy discount

[hearty cradle]

not a chance

[simple juniper]

Bruh that’s not how it work. They are not all gonna be buying T4 if they even buy

[fair temple]

I reckon it will cost elements to scan illuvials and if you want to be efficient in scanning you will hurt your productivity. So T3s will regularly sell elements to other lands to facilitate scans.
Also, note that elements can still be converted into other elements or even fuel.

[tight kestrel]

i think kieran said about buying 500 pieces of land, so maybe they are actually buying land

[simple juniper]

But not T4 that would be insanely expensive

[tight kestrel]

hes one person
imagine the 200 illuvium team
i think they gonna get at least 500-600 T4
but ok, thats just speculation and wont get anywhere

[simple juniper]

I mean you could be right we will find out

[tight kestrel]

i hope im wrong and they let me buy a T4 with my 30 silv2

[simple juniper]

Now wouldn’t that be amazing

[tight kestrel]

"note that elements can still be converted into other elements or even FUEL."
is that correct? well thats a game changer
@thorn wren @amber atlas

[simple juniper]

This is correct. But with a loss of some of the element when converting

[thorn wren]

Elements can converted into other types of elements and are needed to Extract fuel.

[simple juniper]

so you cant directly convert elements to fuel?

[thorn wren]

but aside from that, we are still looking for ways that will act as "Elements sinks" for when all the constructions are maxed out. kinda like an end game thing

[fair temple]

Good to know. I had always thought they could be converted to fuel...

[simple juniper]

same here

[thorn wren]

nope

[tight kestrel]

hey khaled, sorry to bother, but im just looking for some info about the elements utility... thats super relevant in our buying decicion... thanks

[fair temple]

and elements aren't used for scanning?

[thorn wren]

very likely yes, but not confirmed

[tall bear]

Does a T4 has a better scanning chance than a t1 or are bp scanning irrelevant from the land tier ?

[lethal thunder]

I hope they limit the purchase of land to 1 wallet 1 land

[simple juniper]

that will not happen

[tight kestrel]

"Element sinks"?
After buildings are maxed out, something that will receive the elements that are left ? Any reward for that?

[tight kestrel]

By the way, can u tell us an estimated time to get everything maxed out? Playing everyday, organically, not speeding up things

3 months? 6 months? 1 year?
If it takes too long, maybe elements increases value. If they are the limitating thing besides time

[floral locust]

we discussed this here yesterday. There is no extra chance, the only difference is t4 will get built out to start scanning quicker because more resources but once t1 catches up it's the same chance

[tall bear]

Thanks !

I thought since t4 was bigger it had more room for illuvials to cross it and get scanned

[floral locust]

Im pretty sure all land plots are the same size, higher tier just has more element and fuel spots on the map (and landmark on t3 &4)

the land video loop kinda shows that

it's the same map size just more sites and landmark appears the higher the tier

If you have not seen the land video loop on ILV youtube you should check it out 🙂

[little moon]

agree, would be nice to have some other colours in the game besides purple. I don't know if they will add skins for building to get other colours

[thorn wren]

scanning is not affected by land tier.

[thorn wren]

Yes exactly, there has to be some type of reward of that yes.

[thorn wren]

cant give out hard numbers on that but a couple of months i would say and its subject to change of course.

[worn bridge]

How do you watch the stream while being in the other room where people are talking?

Wrong room

[hearty cradle]

can we buy elements in IZ?

[atomic zealot]

Test

[hearty cradle]

1...2...3....

[thorn wren]

Yes, there are multiple ways to do so, an example would be to speed up the extraction time of an element (fuel extraction cannot be sped up though)

[atomic zealot]

Are there plans to increase revenue dis for land owners?

[hearty cradle]

niceee

[hearty cradle]

no, it is highly unlikely will happen

[south belfry]

Easy with unlimited bankroll and write it off

[unborn pilot]

Is production boost for fuel only or for elements too?

Maybe would be good to change verbiage to "Fuel Production Boost" if it's only fuel

[south belfry]

There’s two different kinds an element boost and a fuel boost t3/t4 and it’s only for a specific type not all the spots on your land

So you can get a landmark for something but end up only having 1 spot that benefits from the boost if you have horrible rng lmao

[unborn pilot]

But I mean where it says production boost is 300% for T4, that's only for Fuel right?

[pure cloak]

Elements and fuel I think

[unborn pilot]

Oh I see, thanks.

[south belfry]

Yeah that’s just the overal boost over a t1 I’m pretty sure

We don’t know how much the landmarks improve yet

[fierce fern]

There is so much different stuff...
Everytime when i am here to get some Infos. I am way more confused.

Fuel, landmarks, tears, boosts, elements, different buildings,...

Were are this great information Videos before the landsale?

[empty path]

You can check out some content creators in #🎨〕community-content

[simple juniper]

It’s for all elements and fuel productions on the plot

[meager trout]

do you guys think 10 sILV will be enough for a tier 2 land?

[tight kestrel]

if u stay 72h on, maybe yes

[atomic zealot]

Think of it like this, is a T2 even worth that much?

Remember it has to be able to generate enough returns

[meager trout]

Hard to estimate the returns though

[south belfry]

Which is why we need what they want each loop to cost in the main game

[atomic zealot]

It's not, I wrote a little on this. Returns are very low/year

If you search my name you'll see what I said. They told us that land owners will only get 5% of total in game transactions so even at 1billion a year t2 will get a few hundred, less than 500/year

[meager trout]

Yeah I'm reading it, thanks man

[atomic zealot]

Anytime, at some point I'll make a video on this(not a YouTuber but a one off to explain my thoughts)

[south belfry]

If every plot was equal theoretically it’s 2500 a year per plot with 1b in revenue right?

[atomic zealot]

How'd you do that math? 5% of 1B is about 150,000,000 divide that by 100,000 plots of land and you end up with $500

[south belfry]

I did 20k

Since we don’t know when the rest of the plots will be released and they said it can take up to 3 years for them all to come out

[atomic zealot]

Sorry it's 50,000,00 million not 150 but yes to your point 1b accounts for alot of time for the game to get to that much rev by then you'll have more land out

[south belfry]

But yeah you’re right on that too 500 a year if they were all equal

[meager trout]

There is also appreciation and storing value to consider

[south belfry]

The land only really works of the main game works good

[atomic zealot]

Except they have 100 plots of land, whenever land gets valuable they'll sell some hence driving price down

[tight kestrel]

a good ROI depends on how much u'll pay for the land
if u get land with a big discount, that'd be a good deal

[south belfry]

When rev is down for the main game your land rev is gonna tank vice versa

[atomic zealot]

Yes, even at 30% of starting value it's still very very low ROI. Holding the eth maybe more profitable

[south belfry]

Plus every tier isn’t equal so 500$ a year at the proposed prices isn’t a great return, depending how low they go

You might only get 125$ a year for a T1 that you paid 3k for

[jagged brook]

Or less if you’re not upgrading the land right?

[tight kestrel]

30% of this starting price is higher than the previous price
i said a GOOD discount lol

[south belfry]

The main thing is land only works if the main game is bringing in adequate rev

[atomic zealot]

Yes, this is assuming you are fully upgraded and 100% efficient in the game(waking up to collect everything) and are selling all the fuel you generate, not using any for yourselfm

[hearty cradle]

i dnt think $1b rev/ year is feasible for the first 6 months

[atomic zealot]

Right a good price would be very very low

Well the revenue is speculation of off other games and 1B will take time to get to. They told us how much starting costs are for land

[tight kestrel]

ya, and obviously, paying with silv2

[south belfry]

I mean wow only made 295m in revenue for 2020

[atomic zealot]

And that has a much lower cost to entry.

[hearty cradle]

$15

[atomic zealot]

I loved wow in the early days lol.

[south belfry]

Yeah for a pay once a month and play game that’s good

And is also the target market we’re trying to bring in

[hearty cradle]

who is the target market im quite confused, is it the hardcore gamer or casual gamer?

[south belfry]

Granted axie did 1.3b in revenue I’m willing to bet 70% of that was just recycled money

[atomic zealot]

Point is land is way too expensive with very low returns

[south belfry]

As a whole illuvium is supposed to be the mainstream target

If you can play for free and progress to earn stuff you can sell it’s good but if you get stuck only playing for free things and trapped behind a paywall it may put mainstream players off

[hearty cradle]

ill prob buy at original price of 0.5

the market is so shitty rn it's possible to snipe a few

[south belfry]

Absolute bottom price of a t4 is still 4eth and that’s still not a great return lol

[little moon]

Comparing the revenue of traditional games with web3 games doesn’t make a lot of sense. The average revenue per player from axie is way higher than TFT or WoW. I assume it has to do with the fact that the NFTs are treated as investment assets by some people which means a lot more money flowing into the game than would be possible in traditional gaming.

[atomic zealot]

Too expensive for me, ROI is very low. You are spending about $1500 of eth for a T1 which will only probably generate about $200/ year.

[hearty cradle]

whts you prediction of annual rev for the first year?

[south belfry]

They’re counting recycled money as revenue so just cause it did more doesn’t mean it was fresh money

[hearty cradle]

damn 7 years

[south belfry]

If you bought your own nft 10 times on opensea you’d increase the amount of volume for the collection but it would still be the same money

[atomic zealot]

Well axie is a good benchmark and even tho illuvium will probably be better that doesn't mean we'd make more. It's the same thing with wow for example. Even tho better MMOs came out but they all died because people were so invested in wow it's hard for them to leave so even axie players might not leave because they have actual money invested

[little moon]

I think we could do a billion in the first year on the optimistic side. Probably 500M on the conservative side.
I would include sILV spending in that though so ‘revenue’ to the game may == revenue to players.

[hearty cradle]

damn sILV2 is a short term problem

[south belfry]

Even if we do 1b which can happen, but if it doesn’t maintain your land gains will be poop

And then yeah there’s the playing for free part with silv being used

[little moon]

Doesn’t matter to me if they cycle the same $1000 through over and over or show up with fresh money every day. Illuvium ends up with the same amount of money at the end of the day.

[south belfry]

When people hold onto that same 1000$ the revenue drops though cause it’s not being used, it’s just artificially inflating revenue by being recycled

[atomic zealot]

To me axie is a very good example

[meager trout]

You can buy discounted sILV2, bought some for $170 on uniswap, that plus waiting for the price to drop some should be good enough, that would cost somewhere around $550 per land (if you use 3.2 sILV2), so you would get 36% ROI per year, maybe more if you wait for the price to drop

[little moon]

That’s not how revenue works. If somebody spends $1000 on traveling and catching illuvials then Illuvium gets $1000. If they show up with a fresh $1000 the next day it’s the same thing over again.

If they spend $1000 and then sell the illuvials they caught on the marketplace for $1000 then Illuvium gets $1000 plus the 5% trading fee on that money.

So it’s actually better for revenue for players to ‘recycle’ their money.

[atomic zealot]

Are the starting costs the same but in silv2? I doubt that

[meager trout]

I thought it would be 1:1

[atomic zealot]

I highly doubt that

[little moon]

The value of sILV2 is pegged to the $ value of ILV at the time of the sale.

[cyan dew]

Its 1:1

[south belfry]

So explain when people start holding on to bits of that 1000 and not re using it on the game, then only 500$ starts to get used dropping the revenue. You need fresh money cause once people stop spending and holding on to the money they make it drives rev down

[little moon]

I guess I’m confused what you mean by “artificially inflating revenue”

Cause what you just described just sounds like regular revenue to me.

[south belfry]

The same 1000$ being used over and over again is just volume not really revenue. It’s not really revenue until it’s held onto and not re used. So the 5% fee for the project or whatever would be revenue gained

That 1000$ will make the volume number go up over time, but however much of that is actual revenue for the fee is like 5% or however it’s taken out on transactions

A lot of NFTs take 5-7.5% of the volume which would be their revenue

[little moon]

I get what you’re saying about volume on the illuvidex. Volume =/= revenue. Volume * 5% = revenue from the illuvidex.

But if somebody spends money on fuel to travel and cure shards that’s 100% to revenue. Doesn’t matter whether that money was ‘recycled’ from past sales of Illuvials or if it’s fresh capital in the system.

So like you said somebody could wash trade an illuvial 10 times to themself to create artificial volume but the REVENUE of 5% of each of those trades is real money that goes to the DAO.

[south belfry]

Of course

[sly summit]

Also, axie doesnt have fuel or something like that. All revenue is from market fees, right?

[little moon]

I think they sold the genesis axies. But yeah after that all the axies were produced by players so only market fees. The genesis axies were definitely a great value proposition for the buyers but the whole supply being community controlled is part of what sent the economy off the rails so fast.

[spark ruin]

Is here anyone like me that only wants the land to play the base game without wasting money on fuel?

[fair temple]

Wont you be wasting money on buying a land to get fuel? 😏
But yes i wanna go full iron-man-mode

[spark ruin]

Well yes but for example if I waste 1000 on fuel isnt it better to put that money on land?

[fair temple]

yeah that's fair, in the end it might pay itself back 😄

[loud bobcat]

I’m assuming land is re-sellable? So even if you use it to fuel yourself after awhile you could sell a plot if not needed to do this?

[spark ruin]

I think so yes

Is there some calculation about the amount of fuel the land generates and the amount you need for one travel?

[solar topaz]

ofc. If land generates 5% of all revenue, it's plausible to take that as a rough estimate. E.g. if 5% of all players own land, then they will more or less produce enough fuel for themselves.

[south belfry]

We still don’t know if even a t1 will suffice to make someone self sustainable for continuous gameplay or only like 1 or 2 loops a week

[paper flame]

Still don't know why they can't make that percentage higher.

[little moon]

because that takes money away from stakers

[south belfry]

It can always be proposed once actual numbers come out and holder/plot ratios are horrendous with unused land but I guarantee it will be smacked down relatively quick with owners on the council

[south belfry]

So it makes sense to shaft the people taking the highest risk right

Regardless we won’t be able to know for sure until we see actual numbers and then proposals can be made

Which probably won’t be till the end of the year since the first phase of land means nothing really just testing gameplay

[little moon]

You are choosing to take on the risk of buying land.

People already bought the ILV token after being promised 100% of revenue. Now land makes that 95%, Now you want land to have more so its down to 90%.

How is that not screwing over the people who purchased the token with the promise of a certain amount of return.
You know exactly what you are gonna get if you buy land. If you think its a bad deal just dont buy it.

[south belfry]

More risk more reward

[little moon]

Im glad itll be token holders voting for our council and not landowners.

[loud bobcat]

What EXACTLY am I going to get buying land?

[paper flame]

They should be more friendly to the actual gamers. Some stakers will never even play the game. This is all about a game. Not a bunch of investors sitting on piles of ILV collecting Rev dis.

[south belfry]

I hold tokens lmao land owners most likely own tokens lolll

[little moon]

Approximately 5% of revenue from the main games usage of fuel tokens.

Begging for other peoples money really isnt a great look.

[south belfry]

Just like begging for high auction prices for more rev dis of other peoples money?

[paper flame]

Better pay in Etherium too bro!

[loud bobcat]

I don’t disagree with you but 5% of revenue isn’t an exact number which is why I asked the question, I don’t know what I’ll get until we get to that point

[south belfry]

I’d really be surprised to know how many investors in the coin would actually play the game or are just here for the rev dis and to sit on it and not play at all

[loud bobcat]

I would like to play, of coarse I’m interested in the value as well but I’m a gamer at heart )

[little moon]

Yeah we have no idea what revenue will be. But knowing the percent we can at least make projections. And really unless youre buying at less than 20% of the starting price its not a great return.

[south belfry]

I want to play as well just being realistic here

[little moon]

Although if the return is low and half the lands sit inactive, that hopefully will mean the half of people that are actually playing are making about twice as much.

[south belfry]

Probably not because you’d need to make up for their lack in fuel production to get those numbers

[paper flame]

Good point. I don't see that happening though.

[south belfry]

The only way I see that happening is if the fuel was a free market

[little moon]

Depends how fast they get a scholarship system up and running. Im sure some whales will just buy 100 of them and throw em in a vault for later without ever playing them at all.

[little moon]

I think at the very least it would keep the fuel price near the upper bound of the range.

[south belfry]

Oh yeah I see plenty being unused

[little moon]

so 25% more ish

[south belfry]

But even the 25% fluctuation is being questioned now

[little moon]

Aaron pretty much shut that one down. While it sounds nice it just doesnt really make sense to have a firm peg like that.

[south belfry]

It doesn’t honestly

Especially if the pool is fuel/eth, eth still fluctuates anyway

[little moon]

Aaron wants to let it go totally free market but I think we need to have some data first to make sure prices are somewhat stable. Maybe widening the range over time if the price action is pretty tame.

[south belfry]

I’d like to see it work like how wow tokens work on the auction house

If you can make enough money in game you essentially play for free, or people just buy them to sell for gold in game legally

[little moon]

Its kinda similar. Just with ETH tokens instead of WOW tokens

[south belfry]

To a point

If land only produces 5% of the fuel what if people use the fuel faster than land owners can produce it

And if people use less and land owners make more than enough there would be too much supply making the price go down

[little moon]

I think Johnny was talking about doing events with like a 25% fuel production boost for everyone for a day to help keep up with demand.

Like if fuel usage goes up 50% every saturday they might just make land produce 50% more fuel on saturday.

[stone maple]

The creators of the game have stockpiles of fuel to help manage the price. They let it do its own thing but if it gets too high or too low they can add/remove fuel

[south belfry]

We’re just talking as if fuel was a complete free market or 50/50

Just bouncing ideas around

[little moon]

Itll depend on how big the liquidity pool is. The bigger the pool, the harder it will be to move the price and the more tolerance it will have.

[south belfry]

Yeah that’s not really a bad thing either

[stone maple]

yeah it will probably be relatively steady except at launch or when they have events

[south belfry]

Especially like a -75% weekend for loops

[stone maple]

the most recent proposal has information on the price of fuel

[little moon]

I dont know if they will really need to do any sales. Loops go on sale when the price of fuel dips down.

[south belfry]

Still only at max 25% but we’ll see

People are just getting anxious and wanna see it in action that’s all wether there’s bugs or not they’re gonna wipe the land anyway before main game

[little moon]

yeah maybe they do a 'no rails' weekend and just let the price go nuts and see what happens.

[south belfry]

I’d like to get picked for the beta though I got a pretty good pc to handle max settings

[stone maple]

i think they just dont want to price people out of the game lol

[south belfry]

Well people will already be priced out if they want to play the rest of the game but don’t want to spend money on it, there’s only so much free content

[stone maple]

Do they have any dates for the beta of the open world part?

[south belfry]

Unless you can physically get to the end of the game without spending a dollar though gameplay then it will wall off a lot of people

Spending money would be like a convenience thing like lost ark for example

And from what the website says it makes it seem like you can progress completely free but probably at a really slow rate

[stone maple]

there isnt much gameplay revealed yet from the main game

[south belfry]

And based on our rev discussion, even at bottom prices for t4 and t3 it’s still absurdly high and horrible returns for the estimated return you may get with 1b in rev

Pretty sure the main point of the game is gonna be those battles and wager matches

Doesn’t seem like the zones are gonna be massive like in WoW just more like an instanced state where you go through to find an illuvial

[stone maple]

Its being advertised as open world and they have referenced missions so hopefully there is more to the game

i need side quests within side quests

[south belfry]

It’s open but to an extent from what I’ve seen so far

[stone maple]

yeah, thats why I wanna see more gameplay footage from the openworld part, which they dont have too much of yet

[south belfry]

I think it’s more like elderscrolls online where it’s open world but each area is still instanced

[stone maple]

gotcha

[south belfry]

Hence the traveling fees

[stone maple]

there are traveling fees?

[south belfry]

To get to the higher zones yeah

[stone maple]

where can I read up on that?

[south belfry]

I’m not entirely sure I just heard it in interviews

[paper flame]

Rev Dis bros don't want to pay for side missions. Trust me.

[spark ruin]

It's not a open world, it's like a sandbox

And there are only 25 illuvions that you can catch for free, the rest you have to play to travel there and you have to pay for the shard as well

[simple juniper]

Who’s rev discussion? I don’t believe it is going to be a horrible investment

[stone maple]

revenue distribution

[floral locust]

Curious what you are using to determine

[civic ledge]

If we build and construct so much that the elements no longer need to be used, will the elements be worthless?

Even if there is an element sink, there is no use for it.

[south belfry]

Probably just for scans, and research. Just like clash of clans once you max out there’s nothing to spend stuff on besides troops

[civic ledge]

That would be...
T3 landmarks are weak in the long run.

What do you think?

[south belfry]

Most likely considering you can’t sell elements to other players

[civic ledge]

[amber atlas]

there will be ongoing development of various micro games (i.e. Research is a micro-game) that use Elements and Fuels, we have a couple in the works right now, some of these will generate comestic/flex items, or have leaderboards, whereas others will generate NFTs

they might be a bit more complex than Research, but I would hesitate to call them mini-games, at least so far, will see what Khaled cooks up

---

also you need Elements to generate Fuel (passive Conversion aside), so you always need Elements

[south belfry]

Landmarks also only as good as how many sites you have that benefit from its boost, if you only have 1 site it might aswell be useless haha

[amber atlas]

Landmarks provide a benefit to conversion to the target element, if you have a Fallen Star and no Solon, then you can convert other Fuels to Solon more efficiently

[south belfry]

Or just make up enough missing 2 sites compared to the others you have 2 more of

So is it production or conversion or both

[amber atlas]

Production Boost on the Tier applies to Extraction only, Landmark boosts apply to both Extraction and Conversion

[south belfry]

Got it

And the boost is over a T1 land right?

[amber atlas]

production boost is, landmark boost is relative to the result you would get without a landmark

[south belfry]

Like a t3 produces 100% more than a T1 or is it 100% boost on top of the production of the sites

[amber atlas]

raw production * efficiency * (1 + production boost)

landmarks are implemented slightly differently they effect efficency (both current and max)

[south belfry]

Alright just trying to nail it down that the 100% boost means per site

[amber atlas]

(and the efficiency calculation is not just a raw addition, but a value on a curve beteen min/max)

[south belfry]

At max efficiency

[amber atlas]

at all efficiencies (i.e. if a single site on a T1 produces 100 * 125% efficiecy = 125 then the same site at T3 would produce 125 * (1+1) = 250

the point I was trying to make is that the landmark boost is inside the efficiency calculation, so if you set stuff up badly you could produce less than someone who set stuff up well even with the same sites and Tier

(although I guess thats techincally true of production boost too, its just the efffect is much more obvious/easy to calculate)

[south belfry]

Ah alright, and I’m still slightly confused just keeping it simple each site gets 100% boost for t3 correct?

[simple juniper]

Placement has a pretty big impact on max efficiency

[south belfry]

According to the iip

[amber atlas]

yes ... raw production * efficiency * (1 + production boost)

100% = 1 ... so it would be multiplied by 2

[south belfry]

Alright lol was taking me a second to see it lmao thanks

[simple juniper]

Yes so for a T3 every 1 element a T1 element or gas site harvests a T3 element or gas site will harvest 2

[amber atlas]

to some extent, the difference between wosre possible palcement and best possible placement is large, but its not hard to get a pretty good placement

---

so ... has Grant or NIck been sharing any of the new art?

[south belfry]

Some of it yeah, we wanna see that footage thoooo

[simple juniper]

Some of it yes, it looks very nice #🚰〕leaks message

[amber atlas]

its cool when Grant gets on a mission 🙂

[simple juniper]

Question @amber atlas are we able to purchase elements or will we only be able to get them from our land? And what processes will we be able to speed up using ETH

[amber atlas]

elements will be purchasable with IAP or ETH/sILV2 (maybe one day tradable also), you can speed up non-Fuel and non-Research related processes

[simple juniper]

Thank you and for the element and gas sites will it get to a certain point where they actually fill up if you don’t collect and if so how long would that take?

[stone maple]

Thank you!

[amber atlas]

the Extractors don't operate continuously, you have to kick of an Activity every time period (e.g. every 24 hours)

the Converters do have a passive Gather activity that gets you a small amount of Resource without interaction (but it will fill up eventually)

[simple juniper]

Oh wow ok and they will work for 24 hours straight. So you could technically only get one once every day once you are maxed out?

[amber atlas]

it could be 5 minutes, or 7 days... depends on the structure, the activity, its level, etc

[simple juniper]

Until it fills up?

[amber atlas]

its not filling up

the activity is completing

if you cancelled the activity half way you would get nothing

unlike passive generation where it gives you (for example) 1 Carbon every 5 minutes, and it has a current value and fills up to a max value

maybe the distinction is a bit subtle, but it would lead to confusion to use the terminology fill up when talking about an Activity

---

an Activity goes: **Start **-> Wait -> Complete -> **Acknowledge **(i.e. Collect) (bold is when a person does something)

if that Activity generated a Resource then that resource then goes in to your Storage after you Acknowledge (Collect)

if your Storage was full you have the options to either partially collect (lose some Reesources), or cancel the Acknowledge so you can go make some space

[simple juniper]

I got you now makes perfect sense one more qeustion do you choose the length of time it takes? Like are there options because you hinted at 5 minutes 24 hours or more. (Obviously the more time the more you get)

[amber atlas]

no option, its controlled by the Structures Tier and Stage (we used to call it level, but now we are using Tier and Stage to line up with main game)

[simple juniper]

And This is another building that you can build and upgrade to be able to hold more resources

[amber atlas]

a Structure could have multiple Actions which have different times or different costs, although we dont use that feature on any of the Extractors right now

[amber atlas]

yes, or build multiples

[simple juniper]

The higher it is upgrading the less time it will take correct? If so will it also increase the amount you get or just decrease the time it takes to complete

[amber atlas]

I think typically it will produce more in the same time, rather than the same amount quicker... but that's in Khaleds job description now 😉

over the longer term we want to add ways to diverge your structures so you could choose to have a Structure that produces more but requires you to login to the game all the time, or one that produces less but uses passive generation rather than an Activity

[simple juniper]

That is a very nice feature rewarding the people who are active

[amber atlas]

generally we want to reward people for spending more time in the game, but also let you choose how you want to play (the difference won't be large, we don't want to feel like you HAVE to login every hour or something)

[simple juniper]

Right and correct me if I’m wrong but we are not as of the beginning able to sell elements Only fuel?

So you are still apart of IZ because it is your baby. Are you still working on it or did you give it all to khaled

[amber atlas]

Nick is looking after product management, and Khaled is looking after game design, and we have several devs and artists working on the project

I still talk to Khaled about high-level designs, and particularly interactions between real world and in-game economies

I did a few hours coding last week on IZ too

still involved, just not as heavily as I was previously

---

in any case, I've got to go, ciao!

[simple juniper]

Thanks man good chat chat thanks for the answers

[hearty cradle]

Grazie !

[quaint prism]

What are you guys predicting people will spend for the land (for T1 and T4 especially)?

[simple juniper]

Does anyone know if the amount inside the secondary market pool is included in the total amount of Silv shown on etherecan?

[simple juniper]

Hard to tell many different predictions. But mine is T1 will go for about 75% of original price (1.5 ETh) - 50% (1 ETH) where T4 will go for 25% of their price (20 ETH)

[hearty cradle]

in this market im expecting 25%

[desert trout]

The buildings for illuvium zero look perfectly designed to be integrated into a command and conquer or supreme commander type game

[quaint prism]

I think would also predict ~25% for the higher tiers. For T1 being the lowest entry point, my guess would be the average buyer would target 1 ETH. But given that estates will be supported, I could see the average T1 price being 75% due to 🐳

[hearty cradle]

RTS confirmed

[lapis ledge]

It's so hard to justify buying T1 or T2 at the prices you mentioned if only relying on Fuel. Staking is just better unless skins turn out to generate a massive amount of revenue.

[hearty cradle]

im not sure if i want skins
imo ranger is not that noticeable

i gotta see some skin first tho

[lapis ledge]

Exactly, if skins aren't that in demand (which is a big if because in other games I play w/ friends, they have spent massively on skins), staking is better if you're just looking for return.

[lapis ledge]

Exactly lolll I've asked if this is possible on #863267087715270686 before the sale because I wanna know how exactly are skins gonna look (just one spoiler of an ultimately rare one will be enough). If they're really good like Arcana skins in Dota (for example), I can see skins in Land being a good revenue generator.

[spring jetty]

wouldn't the skins include mozart skins and iz building skins?

[simple juniper]

And illuvial skins

[lapis ledge]

Afaik they only confirmed that it will be skins for Illuvials.

[spring jetty]

i want a mozart skin for sure

[lapis ledge]

@thorn wren May I know this about Land: is the intention to make Land owners earn as much as stakers (the alternative is if Land owners were not to have Land and used their money to buy tokens to stake instead) based on Fuel alone or is the intention to make Land owners to heavily rely on skins to catch up with how much stakers earn? I'm not sure if my calculation is correct, but I've been thinking and even if Land price (T1 for example) falls to 33% of its starting price, staking just gives better return still (if I were to not buy Land and use the money I have to stake).

Or perhaps is there another way for Land owners to generate revenue besides Fuel and skins?

Just wanna know what the devs have discussed with the economists.

[hearty cradle]

the skins are is for ranger's equipments you guys

[lapis ledge]

Illuvials too.

[hearty cradle]

where did you get this

[lapis ledge]

You can see it in the example given in the pinned message regarding Researching and Scanning.

[hearty cradle]

only for weapon and armor

[lapis ledge]

Of Illuvials, and they're just examples.

But now you're also making me unsure lol. Can ask the devs later xD?

[hearty cradle]

it's always been for ranger's weapon and armor

you scan illuvials for bp, and you need 3 illuvials to make the skin

illuvials dnt have equipment

[lapis ledge]

Oh dear lord. So there won't be skins that can be worn by the Illuvials?

[bitter glade]

They have augments. It’s basically equipment.

[hearty cradle]

how do we get augments?

[bitter glade]

Not how you think. But still kind of yes.

[bitter glade]

You collect resources in the Overworld and then forge them.

In the beta we give them to you as part of the deck.

[lapis ledge]

I see. So just partial changes instead of full skin rework (like armors and weapons skins in Dota characters instead of the fundamental rework of Arcana skins in Dota characters).

[bitter glade]

The “not how you think” part would imply that I don’t think you’ll figure it out. 😛

[hearty cradle]

we gonna need leaks

[lapis ledge]

Got it 😥 Will we get a glimpse of how one looks like before the sale happens though?

[hearty cradle]

jaw dropping leaks

[lapis ledge]

Yes please. Jaw dropping leaks.

[bitter glade]

The land sale? No you won’t get our version of Skinned Illuvials before then.

[hearty cradle]

[bitter glade]

Are you talking about the armour and drone skins that are made via Illuvial blueprints?

[hearty cradle]

yes Ranger skins

[bitter glade]

Remember. Scanning an Illuvial to make a skin blueprint is entirely different to an Illuvial with a different skin.

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/peter-griffin-perhaps-family-guy-thinking-gif-13587558

[hearty cradle]

[long tendon]

Im with Jag on this. I would love to have uniqueness on my ranger considering its my avatar.

[lapis ledge]

Yes, what I mean is that will there be leaks for skins that are obtainable through Blueprints that are obtainable through IZ before the land sale happens so those interested in Land can see roughly what kind of skins that are craftable through the BPs.

[tardy fern]

do we have any updates on when the land sale will be?

[hearty cradle]

we are clones, sent by our maker to fight for eth.

[tardy fern]

also for the land sale, will sILV2 be pegged to the ILV price? e.g. if the land sale happened now, sILV2 would be worth $466 instead of $161

[floral locust]

yes

[lapis ledge]

I directed this question to Khaled, but could you let me know what you think about this question @bitter glade?

May I know this about Land: is the intention to make Land owners earn as much as stakers through Fuel alone or is the intention to make Land owners heavily rely on skins to catch up with how much stakers earn? I'm not sure if my calculation is correct, but I've been thinking and even if Land price (T1 for example) falls to 33% of its starting price, staking just gives better return still (if I were to not buy Land and use the money I have to stake).

Or perhaps is there another way for Land owners to generate revenue besides Fuel and skins?

Just wanna know what the devs have discussed with the economists.

[hearty cradle]

im buying land just to play early

and i figure with my backache, ill be better off playing a mobile game

[prisma pelican]

Good idea

[tardy fern]

then the DA is starting at 0.7 eth if it were to happen now based off sILV2 / ILV / Eth ratio

e.g. if the DA happened now, you would be able to buy the land for 0.7 Eth and then most likely off load onto secondary market for an instant profit. This could be easily botted

[bitter glade]

Oh yes.

Haven’t we already shown you guys Atlas Moz4rt?

[bitter glade]

Lmao. That would save us on character models.

[bitter glade]

Yes.

[hearty cradle]

the secondary will price in sILV2 arbitrage

[tardy fern]

so land wont be listed on OS?

[hearty cradle]

so you are saying there are more???

[lapis ledge]

Oh I see. Those drone skins were also skins craftable from BP through IZ. Will we also get some leaks for skins for Illuvials craftable from BP before the land sale?

[lapis ledge]

Nope. On Illuvidex (MP of Illuvium).

[little moon]

Is g4udi the drone that drops out of the ship and builds the stuff in IZ or is it a different guy?

[tardy fern]

oh, that changes things

[bitter glade]

More character models? We currently have 18 I believe. You only see Len because these aren’t a priority to begin. Getting the Overworld finished is.

[bitter glade]

It doesn’t work that way.

You don’t skin illuvials. You scan them, make blueprints, and use those blueprints to make skins for OTHER STUFF that now looks like an Illuvial.

[cyan bone]

Correct

[hearty cradle]

aaron casually dropped leaks

[little moon]

How big is he compared to the buildings? And do we get to see him running around constructing stuff?

[bitter glade]

Land and ILV aren’t meant to be the same thing. You do realise it is a scarce in game asset that gives access to an entire game as well, right?

They have very different functions. It just so happens that they share one thing in common: rev dis.

[bitter glade]

G4udi is a builder configuration of a companion drone. (Sad that they are all alone out there..)

[little moon]

I imagine they have a little fleet of helper drones for doing little tasks. They could have goofy antics like minions.

[hearty cradle]

fun fact, gaudi got hit by a tram and died on the street

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-peter-griffin-family-guy-peter-perhaps-peter-perhaps-gif-24813812

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/dicaprio-maybe-gif-20413224

[hearty cradle]

whoa we need the alpha sooner not way later scoot

[little moon]

It’s like Santa and his elves but with robots instead of people and fuel for inter dimensional travel instead of presents.

[hearty cradle]

you were on the naughty list werent u scotty

[lapis ledge]

Oh. I think I phrased my question poorly. From this Not how you think. But still kind of yes., what I'm getting is is that there will be some sort of skin equippable by Illuvials (or maybe skin an improper term, maybe aesthetical adjustment is the better phrase (?)). What I mean is will we be able to see these aesthetical adjusements before the land sale. I hope that makes sense.

[cyan bone]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-math-hangover-allen-zach-galifianakis-gif-6219070

[little moon]

I mean surely there would be some kinds of environmental hazards and they might need to call in a ranger for support right? They couldn’t just stay out there alone forever

[cyan bone]

Somewhere between Wall-E and R2-D2 I’d expect

[lapis ledge]

I see. I think I have a better idea now. Agreed on the rare in-game asset part. Thanks for shedding some light on the perspective of the dev team regarding Land.

[little moon]

Isn’t g4udi the same guy who projects the survival mode simulator? I thought he was like 5 stories tall.

[hearty cradle]

so far we got few famous dead people :

• mozart
• gaudi
• bieber?

[little moon]

Classical composers

[bitter glade]

“Some sort of skin equitable” is wrong-ish. And also not connected to land in any way. So no, you definitely won’t see Illuvials wearing skins pre land sale. Or even on public release of Overworld

[hearty cradle]

didnt know gaudi composed, ive only visited his odd looking buildings
the guy was tripping

[little moon]

Oh maybe he didn’t. I could be getting him mixed up with somebody else. I just assumed the theme based on Mozart

[bitter glade]

Well they aren’t getting visits from Rangers any time soon.

[little moon]

So the zero point transducer is an objects only kind of teleporter? People come through looking like ground beef?

[hearty cradle]

He was a famous catalan architect, he's most notable work is sagrada. But most of his work looked like they guy was heavy on psychedelic

[bitter glade]

Nah. They are just names of fancy people. Drones need to feel fancy.

[bitter glade]

ZPT is wish.com Obelisk.

[lapis ledge]

Mm I see. Okay please bear with me, sorry if I don't make much sense 😂 Is this right: there won't be skins craftable from BP that Illuvials can immediately use/wear/equip, but Illuvials have augments; hence what there will be is something craftable from BP to skin these augments that will be later be equipped by Illuvials when we play the autobattler mode; hence the not in the way that you think part?

[bitter glade]

Just hear me out: If you are wrong, and I want to tell you what is right, is the best way to just tell you OR hint at something that I’m not going to release?

And secondly, do you think I would fall for a tactic of asking something in the hope of at least getting it denied so as to narrow down the options?

[little moon]

Dont fall into aarons traps. His puzzles might get you a bit of information, but the mental trauma they cause lasts for weeks.

[hearty cradle]

not worth it
you'll end up not getting any sleep lmao

[lapis ledge]

I see 😂 I'll be waiting for further news regarding the details of how it works. I didn't pick up on the fact that it's not something to be released now.

[little moon]

I always thought that the only time illuvials would be reskinned is when they are re-released in a later set. Like if atlas was rereleased in set 3 but he was pink instead of blue and extra long toes.
But im just some guy on discord, i could be wrong.

[hearty cradle]

you gonna read back and try to figure it out, and then you will realize you are not as smart

[prisma pelican]

not smart myself, so I will just patiently wait for the game

[hearty cradle]

thats a smart move

ive been beating myself up for weeks, now im just gonna sleep on my silv2

it will come when it's ready

[prisma pelican]

Me too friend…. Working my ass off to put money into ILV

[hearty cradle]

sILV2 !

[prisma pelican]

Thanking u for letting me know about this coin early

[lapis ledge]

I think this makes sense. I've also thought that skins from BP that are directly equippable by Illuvials that change the Illuvials' fundamental design theme might not make much sense.

[hearty cradle]

illuvials wearing ranger skin???
*meanwhile in an alternate universe

[spring jetty]

and ya'll think im gory

[high sleet]

https://tenor.com/view/damn-shookt-shocked-gif-5580082

[hearty cradle]

@lapis ledge got schooled
you killed the vibe bro
not cool

[bitter glade]

Same.

[high sleet]

I noticed somewhere that a T4 Land scans T4 Illuvials and so on. Is this a 100% chance or just a higher chance, much like how crimson wastes has a higher chance of fire illuvials

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/jedi-starwars-mind-trick-obiwan-gif-5199308

No you didn’t.

[high sleet]

understood

[bitter glade]

@hearty cradle DM me.

[hearty cradle]

but dm is scam

[meager trout]

👀

[high sleet]

ban emote? What is going on. I apologise if I did something wrong?

[simple juniper]

@high sleet no shot you can tell me you understand what this man just told you in sign language with a character from Star Wars 😂

[lapis ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/jake-peralta-jake-peralta-b99-brooklyn-nine-nine-gif-8793716

[high sleet]

That is a famous star wars scene, basically. Forget all that you know. Its a little bit conspiracy theory??

[hearty cradle]

[simple juniper]

🤔 man you are just as smart as him

[high sleet]

I thought it was in the proposal or something, ill check

[hearty cradle]

it was on the website

[simple juniper]

What’s so funny boss🤔

[high sleet]

oooooh right it was too

Its not there anymore. I think I am caught up hahahah

[prisma pelican]

Lies detected … wish I have your brain Aaron. Hope you are resting few more hours a day (when you can) ❤️

[hearty cradle]

it's twice a day now, nice

you guys sleep?

[simple juniper]

He isn’t human…

[hearty cradle]

intravenous caffeine

[quick flower]

Kieran said Aaron had 30hrs a day though, so he still has ~6hrs to sleep after all that

[desert trout]

Probably cloned himself so the clone could sleep for him

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/clone-twin-matrix-gif-12594344

[slate pendant]

with the current market falling like it is, will the land sale be delayed? or still scheduled for may roughly?

[vivid cipher]

I don’t think you have

[prisma pelican]

Grind while we young 😜

[bitter glade]

Sucks to be you then. 😉

[empty path]

👀

[vivid cipher]

Yeah. I may have skipped over the Moz4rt skin Leaks

https://tenor.com/view/sucks-for-me-bummer-sucks-new-girl-approved-gif-7334610

[empty path]

#🚰〕leaks message

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-too-good-to-me-judy-hale-linda-cardellini-dead-to-me-thank-you-gif-17803355

[silk pelican]

Was there a proposed date dare for the IIP? Or is that to be determined still?

[empty path]

wdym

[silk pelican]

For the land sale I mean

[empty path]

You want to know the date of the land sale?

[silk pelican]

Yes. If they decided on a date. I'd love to know 😊

[empty path]

There is no set date yet, the contracts for the market place are getting an audit. It's probably going to take another 2 weeks for the audit, after that we will know more

[silk pelican]

Ok. Thanks you.

[hollow shoal]

Going to take the days of the land sale off from work so I can hopefully get a good piece of land haha

[weak sedge]

has anyone heard about the new starting prices for the auction?

[lapis ledge]

You can find it in the link in the last post in #📰〕governance-news

[empty path]

I assume it's going to be over the weekend

[hollow shoal]

Hmmm I would be surprised. We shall see.

[umbral badge]

This remains my favorite saying from childhood through to adulthood, it is such a versatile and enjoyable response

[tulip perch]

my bet no announcment on date of land sale untill

APE land sale has concluded which is this weekend

[sly summit]

we probably wont get a date until at least the 15th

[sly summit]

read here

[tulip perch]

well more time to stack eth

[quick elm]

Hey guys........ Wen?

[primal widget]

https://tenor.com/view/illuvium-illuviumio-ilv-yield-farming-gif-22225026

[quick elm]

🤞

[polar umbra]

Hey guys is there a date or rough sate for the land sale?

[empty path]

!land

[dry forge]

There is no set date for the first land sale. The land sale will be announced in #📣〕announcements when the date has been confirmed. Illuvium: Zero is a mobile mini-game that will interact with the main game. Illuvium: Zero will be a base building game staged on a piece of land. Paid land will produce Fuel ERC20 tokens and Blueprints, interacting with the main game. There will be 100k plots of paid land in total, and the first land sale will offer 20k of these plots for sale in a dutch auction format. All in-game development on land will be wiped when Illuvium launches. For more information, visit #🎮〕illuvium-zero

[upper fox]

Hello, what was the rough prices for land sales in Ilv ? Thanks

[empty path]

Check the pinned messages

[upper fox]

Thanks, checked already 👍🏻

[slate pendant]

so the illuvidex is still being audited and land sale wont be atleast another 2 weeks?

[empty path]

correct

[fierce fern]

Does it mean landsale end of May is still realistic, or will it be Summer?

[empty path]

If the contracts have no issues I guess end of May is still possible

[slate pendant]

oh so it could even be possible the sale could be after may?

[fierce fern]

If you would have to give a Personal percentage Chance...we are 50 Prozent in Mai or not

[slate pendant]

ok thanks

[empty path]

Yes, this is possible

[empty path]

Really hard to say, it all depends on the contracts audit

[stone maple]

I like how 3 people in a row asked when the land sale was, when all they had to do was read the message before them

[empty path]

Then I wouldn't have anything to do anymore

[stone maple]

lmao, okay then when is the main game released?

[empty path]

There is no date announced yet, private beta just launched. More people will be getting invites over time to test everything. We also have land sale coming up.

[stone maple]

I like that answer

[stable lily]

I thought I was the only one that scrolled up before I scrolled down! Welcome to the club!

[hearty cradle]

scroll left

click pinned

[spring jetty]

so Aaron said it could take 3-6 month to maximize a t1 land potential, thoughts?

if no speed up is used

apparently there are over 150 different buildings, manage lands is gonna be pretty challenging lol

[hearty cradle]

i got friends in the phillipines

[simple juniper]

That’s all you need really

[spring jetty]

I can already foresee me busting my ass off playing over world, arena and managing land all by MYSELF at the beginning of the ob

[iron laurel]

Illuvium Zero is going to be more complex than I first imagined which is good and I am looking forward to working out my strategy for building optimization and aesthetics. The factor will take so long to optimize is really showing that the team expects this to be long term not just a fast flip and done.

[stone maple]

I hope its a good mix between fun and grinding complex

[chrome aurora]

Are there gonna be buyable speedups ? Like in traditional pay to win mobile games ? I really hope not !

[arctic oriole]

Is there a land sale date yet. Or an estimated date

[regal trout]

WEN

[spring jetty]

There will be speedups but there is no competition in iz at least not any time soon

[simple juniper]

Speed ups will not give you an advantage over people in the main game really

[south belfry]

Speed ups would be a horrible investment lmao you’re already spending an ass load on land with probably a small yearly return as of now

[hearty cradle]

y'all got return?

[south belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/black-man-interview-close-call-barely-yeah-gif-5236051

[hearty cradle]

jeezus

[cyan dew]

https://tenor.com/view/wagie-wojak-meme-mcdonalds-wage-cuckin-it-gif-18834548

[hearty cradle]

can you at least make a different gif?

[south belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-many-months-later-three-weeks-later-waiting-so-much-later-gif-16351997

[stoic plank]

So silv2 will have same value as ilv when it comes to land sale?😅

Sorry for the noob question😔

[south belfry]

Yes

[simple juniper]

Correct

[stoic plank]

Thank you 🥰 much appreciated guys🥰

[hearty cradle]

im ready bro

[fleet summit]

landsale when?

[cyan dew]

2 weeks

[hearty cradle]

its not lol

[pure cloak]

You can't know for sure

[south belfry]

November

It’s a seasoned inside joke

[pure cloak]

that would be a 1 year delay😆

[mortal mural]

“Late November”

[regal trout]

"Late 2030"

[paper flame]

I like yard sale better.

[unkempt ginkgo]

Hey there do we have a general idea when the land sale will be?

[simple juniper]

Hopefully late may

[amber narwhal]

so right now silv2 is 159 dollers and will be the same value as ILV before landsale so 461 dollers? would it not be the best idea to swap ethereum to silv2 now if it is going to more than 2x?

[dawn locust]

yeah.

[amber narwhal]

but where can i read about that information because i was gonna buy land with ethereum, but seems like a smarter idea to buy with silv2

[desert trout]

@amber narwhal unfortunately, it's a better question to ask why wouldn't you wait longer to make sure the sale actually happens when we think it will in case a delay happens and the market has even more time to crash.

[amber narwhal]

but lets say ILV is around 500 dollers and will stay there - silv2 is 200 dollers but will then be 500 dollers, the same as ilv, when landsale starts? i dont get how that make sense

[desert trout]

@amber narwhal Right now sILV is worthless besides that hypothetical $500 of purchasing power for land sale and in game, it's only good for quick liquidity. Until we have a set date it's not worth it for people to risk their assets buying silv because even at $160 they could technically still end up overpaying if the market goes to complete hell in the next few weeks for some reason. and if the land sale gets delayed for any reason again and say it's past the 1 year lock period now, that's a big dump to potentially deal with from people dissatisfied with where the project is compared to where they expected it to be when they locked up a year ago. So basically there's enough going against sILV still to warrant such a severe gap. Theoretically once we get to a reasonably short enough period between the current situation and sILV being usable in the land sale the gap, whatever it may be is likely to close rather quickly then as long as demand for the land sale is high enough.

[pine prawn]

It’s also possible the land sale gets announced and ilv will be worth 1k+so you could have near 10x buying power .

[haughty mica]

in L1?

[harsh dew]

A Fully Decentralised RPG and Collection Game Built On The Immutable X L2 Network
It's in the Whitepaper ---> #🔗〕helpful-links message

[haughty mica]

Immutable X has some compatible issue, would Illuvium move to another L2?

it is not easy to build on top of products in Immutable X network rn.

tbh, there is not too much choices when wp written but it is different rn.

[south belfry]

Pulse network

[haughty mica]

Iam worry about $ILV would experience the problem $SNX had in last year.

(well, not exactly )

[hearty cradle]

please elaborate.
i know that it takes 24hr to withdraw asset from IMX, and you can only do 1 withdrawal at 1 time

[haughty mica]

that won't be an issue for not too far future

[hearty cradle]

if IMX got mass adoption

[haughty mica]

And also OP can be zk network in future as I know.

[haughty mica]

that is not the problem, the problem is if ILV were built on a right network.

[hearty cradle]

im guessing the 24hr withdrawal delay is IMX needing a certain high number of tx to save up on gas fee

[hearty cradle]

whts wrong with IMX network

[haughty mica]

24hr withdrawal delay won't an issue for any L2 network in near future.

[stone maple]

Gamestop is using IMX for its NFT marketplace so i feel like any bugs will be cleared up

[haughty mica]

not IMX itself but zk network it built on

[hearty cradle]

whts wrong with stark

[haughty mica]

not a open structure

Does ILV user have to KCY?

[hearty cradle]

ooo that, its a centralized network for a start

even GALA is building their own network

lol im selling my stake if IMX requires KYC

[haughty mica]

my question is if ILV needs KYC, I don't see any thing wrong with that. That does not mean IMX requires KYC and it doesn't mean products built on IMX don't need KYC.

KYC sticks with the product not network(like IMX) a product built on.

If ILV user needs to be KYC, won't mean it is bad at all.

[hearty cradle]

ILV wont need KYC man, it's just downright dumb. Unless they are yuga, yuga can do anything they want and it turns to gold

at least i hope they wont. Although it is not impossible in the future, if AU gov decided to regulate crypto gambling

[regal trout]

KYC is bs

[marsh sage]

I hope the anti-Dutch Auction folks are watching the BAYC land sale now (with 2.5 ETH being paid in gas). Imagine being the person that pays 2 ETH in gas and doesn't get the land.

[spring jetty]

are they doing English auction?

[desert trout]

@brisk plume personally, not a fan of trying to value things in eth or other tokens yet. stablecoins are still the backbone of cryptos value more or less and it's what just about anyone references when they talk about how much a token is worth. Trying to play around by speaking in token ratios doesn't change the fact that if the tokens stablecoin price falls, you are losing purchasing power.

@marsh sage I mean, dutch auction has some merits for sure, but if it weren't for the value placed in being able to choose the location of land for building future mega cities, I think we would have gone with an alternative personally. Clearly what BAYC used though is shit for preventing gas wars.

[dark kettle]

Tier 4 land has a fuel landmark and the ones before it dont, does this mean only tier 4 produces fuel, or just more? Havnt done too much research into land yet, tryna learn

[desert trout]

@dark kettle all t1 and up land produces fuel, I don't know if the landmark boosts production or not personally but that certainly makes sense

[marsh sage]

They set a fixed price (~2.5 ETH) for each plot of land. They got a dutch auction anyway. Just people are spending 1, 2, and 3 ETH on gas instead of on the price of land.

[dark kettle]

Thank you

Going to be interesting to see what % of initial price the lands get to before everyone buys, it will definitely determine what tier i get

[spring jetty]

that's so dumb

[hearty cradle]

spending 1 eth gas on a potential 100eth land is nothing

[south belfry]

That’s what you get when you’re the #1 team in the space and have degenerates that will do anything

[hearty cradle]

it's the high-roller table

[south belfry]

If people are willing to pay 2 eth for gas then they don’t give a hoot already

[little moon]

Good news is the Illuvium landsale couldnt possibly be as botched as the otherside sale. Im glad we have a team thats taking the time to release a great product rather than just riding a hype train.

[sly summit]

Wtf

[little moon]

You can buy LAND with USDC right?

[sly summit]

No

[empty path]

sILV2 or ETH for T1 - T4

[little moon]

And ETH for T5 right? thanks 😄

[velvet ember]

Anybody bought a bayc land? Just curious, do they have any utility? In the future?

[hearty cradle]

next year probably

[solar topaz]

over time a price in ETH begins to feel more "natural". When I began to be more interested in cryptos, I always valued my tokens in fiat equivalent, but interestingly, after a while ETH started becoming more and more the reference. Now I am interested more in how much ETH I have and think of good or bad times to trade ETH vs fiat. Same goes for crypto assets that are pegged to fiat. Ofc, the ratio still is very relevant if you only buy crypto to immediately trade against another token...

[solar topaz]

BAYC land already has utility. People talk about you if you buy one - even here. 😬

[knotty moth]

?

no

[little moon]

I tried to find something...Nobody cares abt what the land is what the utility is what tech the will use, but everybody is aping in...In comparison I'm happy ppl a sleeping on Illuvium land.

[spark ruin]

what utility?

[south belfry]

If you wanna get technical, illuvium land doesn’t even have utility until the main game is out🤷🏻‍♂️

[primal widget]

i am pretty sure illuvium zero (the land game) drops before the main game.

[south belfry]

That’s the point it won’t actually do the functions it’s supposed too until the main game is out

[primal widget]

the function it's supposed to have is being an asset for illuvium zero. so yes, of course this function won't work until illuvium zero is released.

[primal widget]

by the way, food will have no function until you eat it.

[south belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/seriously-gif-23861497

[mystic gull]

and if you don't eat it, it goes to waste

[hearty cradle]

i have no utility

[mystic gull]

In regards to the blueprints, does the land tier matter for what illuvials you can scan?

[floral locust]

no difference with land tier. the region does though, water illuvial more likely to be scanned on halcyon sea etc

[mystic gull]

Ok that is good. Just wondering what will I want to choose

[spark ruin]

the region of the land affect the aspect of the terrain right?

[floral locust]

yea a good example of that is the different terrain in the land video loop showing the different tiers

[spark ruin]

yeah but does it changes with the tiers?
it makes sense to change with the region i think

[floral locust]

nope t1 and t4 in the same region will have the same terrain

[spark ruin]

and can we chose the region or will it be random?

[floral locust]

batches of land in each region will be on sale over 3 days. you will be able to choose the region you want to buy in

[spark ruin]

nice, there are 3 regions right?
grass, snow and desert?

[floral locust]

7 regions

[hearty cradle]

guys do we have cost of scanning?

[spark ruin]

they only show 3 on the video i think

[floral locust]

Abyssal basin, brightland stepps, shardbluff, crimson waste, halcyon sea, taiga boreal, crystal shores

yea I don't think we have seen all of the region terrain for illuvium zero yet

[shell rose]

Almost positive they said that ILZ drops on-chain at same time as the ‘main public beta’.

[steep kestrel]

hello goodmorning to y'll how are you , im glad to see you here again , hows your weekends fam?

[primal widget]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-man-jim-carrey-hey-hello-hi-gif-4780358

[steep kestrel]

HAHAHA ur so funny fam

what are you doing?

[empty path]

Now this is a question I would never ask him

[primal widget]

i could use this opportunity to sneakily promote my youtube channel: illuvination, but instead i choose to answer you with this gif

[primal widget]

https://tenor.com/view/scaler-create-impact-dog-coding-programming-gif-25011983

[arctic oriole]

So the land sale will occur on IMX. Will I have to bridge my sILV To IMX? I’m not familiar with how layer 2 works

[solar topaz]

erm... don't they have their own Illuvidex? (IMX is a system that works with different "front pages", but I assume Illuvium is getting a special one)

[velvet ember]

I’m just super curious about it. I’m new to crypto that’s why. Not trying to gossip about it. 😊 anyway, my fault, this is #799010390201466880

[void raft]

Hi, will IZ have some kind of building planner, so I can plan what and where to build?

[hearty cradle]

land sale on L1, minting on L2
in the future, you will have to deposit assets (eth, nft) into IMX and withdraw assets from IMX

[arctic oriole]

Ok so does that mean what I buy on L1 (the NFT) will then be sent to IMX in the future to be turned in to functional land ?

So there will be some link between IMX and ILV zero

[fair temple]

So basically you pay gas now to buy a land on the Eth blockchain, and through the contract the land will be given to you on IMX. This way any future transactions, whether trading the land or any features of the land will be done on L2 and will cost very little gas fees.

[arctic oriole]

Gotcha. Thanks y’all

[hearty cradle]

you got it bro

[south belfry]

Yuga labs refunding gas for failed tx

[shrewd dagger]

So we can u metamask to buy land?

[south belfry]

Yes

[thin wolf]

I need to put up a ton of post-its around the house when Landsale starts that says”Do not Fomo in the beginning ,just wait”

Infoulivial put up a spreadsheet where you type in your Silv and see how long you need to wait to get the different Tiers based on the amount of Silv you want to spend.really handy.

really difficult to asses how many people will get on this sale(iam thinking massive numbers of people wants a piece)

[simple juniper]

That’ll help you not FOMO in smart man

[thin wolf]

Can't hurt at least.

[south belfry]

I feel bad for anyone with fomo to buy t1 at 2 eth lol

[mystic gull]

Well, it is a dutch auction. Not sure if to feel sorry if they cannot even wait a minute

[south belfry]

Any price of a DA I feel bad even if it started at 1 eth

[little moon]

Just out of curiosity, if you had your way and could do the sale in whatever format and whatever prices you wanted, how would you do it?

[mystic gull]

Yeah some people do, mostly they should wait if it gets to their price or don't buy

The demand is high and there is a limited amount of land. If that is not true, prices will go low. If it is true all lands will be sold and then the price is fine

[south belfry]

Personally I would give all current ilv holders the ability to be whitelisted for a spot to participate in the sale if they would like to participate or not, probably allowing them to participate day 1 without interference from outside factors like bots/random people. Then concurrent days open up the sale to people who weren’t on the whitelist and allow them to participate. I believe supporters of ilv should get first dibs on grabbing some land. Also just do fixed prices and bring down how much each tier costs, gas is inevitable no matter what way you do anything. Also release like 6500 plots for day 1 all at once to people can scower the map and pick there’s which would reduce the chances of you fighting 10 people in a bidding war over only a few hundred plots at a time.

Or have new batches come out every 5-10 minutes

One benefit other projects get away with doing DA is the lack of information, with illuvium it’s easy to plug in a revenue number and do some math to realize the 5% for sure isn’t worth anywhere close to the starting prices

I personally see a lot of people fomoing to get spots to ruin mega cities and over extending themselves thinking they’re gonna milk the whales until the whales don’t care and just wait till you need to sell something for liquidity and take a loss

But I still get why it’s being done because rev dis needs to be shown off to the whales to keep the price afloat

[mystic gull]

Stakers get the revdis. There is no WL, no advantage and we are all equal. Low prices can lead to bots and whales, and then just people listing it for double the price or more. And there is no need to buy land at all, you can sit and wait for next one

[south belfry]

I wouldn’t say we’re all equal lol

If we were all equal everyone would get the same amount in rev dis

And who cares if people list it for double on a secondary market

[mystic gull]

well then we are giving the same opportunity. Having less money is not on ILVs side

[south belfry]

Giving everyone who wants to participate in the sale a WL spot gives everyone an opportunity as well

[mystic gull]

Then just whitelist everyone

[south belfry]

That’s what I said, every ilv holder who wants to participate

[mystic gull]

no no, everyone

[south belfry]

For day 1 ilv holders only

[mystic gull]

don't leave people out. They don't even need ILV to buy, so no need to hold ILV

[south belfry]

After day 1 it would be open to everyone no one’s being left out

I was just telling scoot how I’d approach it lol

[mystic gull]

Still not same opportunity to everyone. So I understand you don't like it, but think will not change

Yeah I know, but I feel you have days discussing it 😛

[south belfry]

How is it not the same opportunity really tho

Like in all seriousness

[mystic gull]

if you say it will be the same but people that hear it last minute will not have an opportunity then is not the same

[south belfry]

Why would people hear the last minute, people are gonna hear about it last minute right now with the abysmal marketing going on

[little moon]

Yeah he really didnt like your hypothetical 🤣

Your idea makes sense to me, its more of a traditional NFT project approach. Personally ive never been that into the NFT scene so I dont have any attachments to that model. And I hate grinding for WL with a passion so dutch auction just sounds simpler to me. I also hold a lot more value in ILV than I will be investing in land so im all about max revenue.

[south belfry]

You wouldn’t have to grind just simply hold it or have it staked to prove and apply to participate

So many whitelist spots go unused anyway even when people get them

And if you sell your ilv before the sale you automatically get taken off

[little moon]

True, I just think whitelists in general are not the best way to conduct a sale. Long-term I think we will see projects move away from WL in favor of public sale. We saw how problematic doing a traditional WL sale was for otherside.

[south belfry]

It would only be for day 1 though not the whole thing just giving early supporters a day of their own

The other thing is people minted otherside for the quick flip as well, people will always mint as fast as possible to get the quick flips in

[desert trout]

WL in the current market is dangerous to begin with. if the whitelist round doesn’t sell out instantly it wrecks the project secondary market.

[little moon]

We do. Percentage wise and everything else would be weird.

[south belfry]

DA also wrecks a project look at Jrny

If people mint high at first and it just tanks to the bottom then people get pissed

[desert trout]

I didn’t say I’m a fan of DA either though I have a little hope that it won’t go completely awry since this is the most or close to the most polished project I see in gamefi

[little moon]

One of the things i really liked about Illuviums strategy was not giving advantages to early investors. I think everyones money should be equally valued whether you bought 10 months ago or yesterday.
I think its a stronger position to have people invest purely on the merits of the project rather than on some senes of fomo that they might end up with some kind of 'early holder' benefit.

[south belfry]

Jrny pass floor is below mint now for the DA lol

Granted he made some dumb ass decisions which caused it

That’s all it takes though one stupid decision to nuke your floor and if it was a DA it looks even worse

[mystic gull]

And I will think there will be pissed people that didn't do DYOR and sell. But if the overall community sentiment to buy it back or who bought at a good price then is all good

[south belfry]

Just like all it takes is doubling a total supply to nuke your floor if you don’t have volume to support it

[desert trout]

There’s a clear argument certainly for how easily DA format can lead to a rekt secondary floor but at least this isn’t a pfp but rather a game asset with rev potential so the floor will ultimately be based on the merits of the game and its revenue.

We just might not solidify it until the game is launched and fuel is being produced and used

[south belfry]

Realistically we won’t solidify until all the land is released, all the silv is burnt up and only eth is being used and how much actual revenue is being produced yearly from the game and the success of it

[little moon]

I think the idea that a projects floor dipping after a DA being bad is a pretty unique idea to the NFT space. In traditional markets and non-nft crypto its expected for there to be volatility after a new product or company launches on the market.
NFT investors have been VERY spoiled with almost guaranteed returns for a while. That kind of easy money never lasts forever.

[south belfry]

True but we’re also not traditionally investing most of it is degenerate, paying 6k for something is crazy for a normie lol

Plus everyone dumps stuff so easily

Once people actually break down the math though on return from fuel or if they’ll be able to play with just fuel from their land alone or not it can really affect prices

A games lifespan is completely unpredictable

[little moon]

Yes and no. Theres a LOT of degens in the space but there are also a lot of legitimate VC funds who are investing for long term value, plus collectors who genuinely enjoy owning the asset regardless of its value. Its mostly the degens that cause the price dumps though. Gamblers looking for a quick flip with no regard for the underlying project.

I degen out a little but but im mostly a value investor. Its quite boring.

[mystic gull]

And we need less flippers and more long term investors

[south belfry]

I see the shiny variations holding the real value for sure, but as for “legitimate” vcs it’s a toss up there’s plenty of people I know who aren’t actual vcs who got vc prices

Unfortunately that’s the thing with NFTs tho it’s flip city since their illiquid assets

[mystic gull]

but if they buy high, they will have to flip for low. So at the end is good

[little moon]

NFTs are fun. Make bank trading jpgs

[south belfry]

I used to play the auction house in WoW and the stuff I see people doing on opensea is disgusting, undercutting by so much

It’s usually the people who over extend causing this stuff though

[little moon]

Are you even a real degen if you arent under constant threat of liquidation?

[mint scroll]

When land sale

[mortal mural]

"late november"... or 2 weeks. but seriously, it is yet TBD

[little moon]

soon

[paper flame]

Yall seen this garbage?

[mortal mural]

?? whats that?

[paper flame]

That other landsale.

[jagged brook]

Why garbage?

[shell rose]

I still don’t understand what the point of their land sale was. Are they making a game?

[paper flame]

Because it's not illuvium land. I'm extremely biased.
Thats why I live here homie.

[floral locust]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ilv-semi-bright-bqCcgCVFVmFyb8YAFB

[hearty cradle]

Yea

[lost crown]

80 ETH ?!!!! LOOOL WHAAAAY

[hearty cradle]

[uneven dawn]

Will the first tranche of the land sale now all be on IMX? Or still purchasing on L1 and minting on L2? https://twitter.com/KieranWarwick/status/1520716249348538368

Kieran.eth (@KieranWarwick)

• Dutch Auction w/ inflated start price and extreme decay curve
• Minting on L2 @Immutable
• Long sale duration
• Allowing purchases in ETH
• Actually selling plots and not a ticket to be claimed

Likes

147

Twitter · May 1, 2022, 10:46 AM

[forest cypress]

The yuga mostly looks garbage. Some decent, but no explanation on utility. Not to shit on another project, but that mint was garbage and cost a lot of people lot of money

[forest cypress]

Ya seems like IMX based off that statement

[uneven dawn]

Interesting

[hearty cradle]

its still the same for the 1st
Purchase on L1, mint on L2

[uneven dawn]

In that tweet, Kieran said "actually selling plots and not a ticket to be claimed". What are we purchasing on L1 then, if the plot is being minted on L2?

[hearty cradle]

IZ land is different than pre-revealed mint. You already select the location of the plot before the mint, and you will be revealed the resources nodes after minting

[uneven dawn]

But what have we actually purchased on L1 if it's not a ticket to be claimed for an L2 plot?

[hearty cradle]

if you see the otherdeed, the FP pre-revealed was 8eth, after revealed it's 4eth

[hearty cradle]

any asset (nft, token, currency) need to be deposited to L2, and to be withdrawn from L2 when you need them

IMX is off-chain

[uneven dawn]

You haven't answered the question Jaganite.

[south belfry]

Wdym cost people a lot of money, failed tx got their gas back

[hearty cradle]

you buy the NFT on L1, then you deposit the NFT to L2

if you need the NFT back in your MM wallet, you got to withdraw it from L2 to L1

IMX is a centralized off chain network

[uneven dawn]

But the NFT is being minted on IMX, so we don't actually receive the NFT on L1 when we buy it?

[south belfry]

So if gas will be non existent when the sales are on IMX does that mean that the future sales won’t need to be Dutch auction to save people gas

[hearty cradle]

yea you are right, it is a ticket to be claimed. Good question.
dear god not another delay

[uneven dawn]

But Kieran said it isn't a ticket to be claimed: https://twitter.com/KieranWarwick/status/1520716249348538368

Kieran.eth (@KieranWarwick)

• Dutch Auction w/ inflated start price and extreme decay curve
• Minting on L2 @Immutable
• Long sale duration
• Allowing purchases in ETH
• Actually selling plots and not a ticket to be claimed

Likes

147

Twitter · May 1, 2022, 10:46 AM

[hearty cradle]

it could mean that we probably going to purchase it on IMX

you should ping a team to clarify this

[uneven dawn]

So not this, and it's purchase on L2 and mint on L2

[south belfry]

I mean who really cares if it’s a ticket to be claimed or not? That’s not a solid selling point lol

[hearty cradle]

probably yea. But i'll wait for some clarification

[uneven dawn]

To minimise gar wars

[hearty cradle]

sometimes it's not meant as written

[south belfry]

That makes no sense

[hearty cradle]

the tweet was personal, might not be official

[uneven dawn]

It does, because a L1 "ticket" for an L2 NFT means that gas price could significantly increase like we just saw with otherdeed (minus the dutch auction strategy). If it was buying the actual NFT on L2 through IMX, gas would not spike given the same demand.

[hearty cradle]

There is one major problem with this. The NFT will never be written on L1 until you withdraw it to L1
major security risk

[uneven dawn]

Well IMX say they are as secure as L1 ETH, but I guess we'll soon see

[south belfry]

So then how can the whole sale be imx only for future sales if it starts on L1

Wouldn’t something massive have to change?

[uneven dawn]

Hence my original question

[little moon]

I think IMX uses your ETH address since its a zkrollup. So you pay on L1 and then the asset is minted on the corresponding address within IMX.

then you just have to link your wallet to IMX to transact with it.

[hearty cradle]

any NFT generated from the game will never be written on L1 until you withdraw it from IMX. zkrollup is the process to write L2 asset to L1.
Based on gods unchained, the withdrawal process may take up to 24hr, and you can only do one withdrawal at one time

[uneven dawn]

But if we are all paying on L1 and sending ETH or sILV2 to the Illuvium DAO Treasury address, that can potentially spike gas prices right? Ideally we'd pay on L2 as well, but I understand that IMX may not be ready.

[south belfry]

Yes and fighting 10 other people for a plot will still spike prices

[uneven dawn]

Precisely, not to mention if 10 people go to buy an L1 ticket at the same time, 9 of them get failed tx's with burnt ETH

[south belfry]

DA or not it’s still gonna happen no matter what at affordable prices

[uneven dawn]

Unless you put it on L2 IMX

[south belfry]

I’ve been saying this for weeks but no one wants to hear it lol that’s what happens when they’re individual tokens

[little moon]

Not really, since the lands are released in batches its like less than 1000 transactions per hour. Its not that there will be no gas issues. But itll be a lot better than a certain recent mint that had gas at 5000 gwei for 3 hours.
Honestly I doubt anyone will need to pay over $200 in gas for a transaction.

[south belfry]

It doesn’t matter they’re in batches a bunch of transactions at once for 1 plot still cause the problem

[hearty cradle]

the only network as secure as L1 is eth network itself

[uneven dawn]

I'm not a dev, just reading the marketing on their website

[little moon]

Jaganite has some interesting ideas about how IMX works but it doesnt line up with what ive seen from my research 🤣

[hearty cradle]

it's marketing

[hearty cradle]

just try gods unchained you'll see

[uneven dawn]

1,000 successful transactions (tx's) per hour, sure, but how many gas-burning failed tx's along with each successful tx that set a higher gwei floor for the next tx?

[hearty cradle]

You are basically trusting your NFT to IMX lol

IMX acts as a custody

[uneven dawn]

it's non-custodial brethren, users keep their private keys and IMX doesn't have access

[little moon]

I dunno, probably not that many because not everyone will try to buy at the same price.

[south belfry]

You can’t be so sure lol once people start seeing what they sell for it causes the fomo

[uneven dawn]

Hopefully that's not what the otherside thought either...

[south belfry]

People can and will get rekt like anything

If you don’t want gas wars don’t hype it up lol it’s simple really

[little moon]

The otherside sale couldnt have been worse if they tried. They were gonna do a dutch auction but they realized it was hard to code so they said fuck it and let their community waste hundreds of millions of dollars in gas.

[hearty cradle]

i personally prefer fair dutch auction, and unrevealed plot location

[uneven dawn]

or just put in on L2 IMX... hype can be important

[south belfry]

They’re refunding gas

[hearty cradle]

Akudreams was fair dutch auction

[uneven dawn]

but have left a very sour taste in the mouth of the community

[little moon]

Theyre refunding gas to people with failed transactions. I saw ppl spend 4 ETH+ on gas and they arent getting that back.

Thats also a massive waste of capital for the DAO that could have been put toward development rather than fixing their crappy sale.

[south belfry]

But then you got the rev dis bros mad

[south belfry]

Ok? The floor is worth more than that lol what is there to complain about they can sell to make it back if they want to

[little moon]

The point is that they could have designed the sale better and not had outrageous gas fees at all.

[uneven dawn]

4 ETH gas + 305 ape coin to purchase... not sure how much profit the 4.9 ETH floor is getting right now

[south belfry]

Like just charging that much in a DA right?

[little moon]

So in your head its better for the money to go to ETH miners and get burned rather than going into the vault of the DAO these people were investing in?

[uneven dawn]

premint?

[south belfry]

They coulda sold for 7-10 eth at the start so if they didn’t that’s on them

[uneven dawn]

nah cause gas fees were still like 2.3 ETH for the buyer to purchase, but yeah I get your point

[south belfry]

Plus there’s people who got ape at 7$ also for free

All I’m saying is if you don’t hype it then no gas wars lol

Hype it for the imx sales, hyping it out the butt causes all the pump and dumps anyway

The last minute people who hear about the sale probably aren’t going to try and figure out the mechanics they just see it hyped and want the quick flip

[hearty cradle]

Heyy im a miner and i enjoyed yesterday gas war

https://tenor.com/view/godzilla-let-them-fight-fight-ken-watanabe-watanabe-gif-5687182

[viscid solar]

https://tenor.com/view/the-truth-came-out-robert-geraldino-robertidk-the-truth-was-told-no-lies-were-told-gif-21739976

[viscid solar]

I’d be happy with gas refunds for failed transactions tbh

[south belfry]

Well if it’s through illuvidex do the failed attempts go to the dao they just go to miners anyway right?

[uneven dawn]

Miners

[south belfry]

They won’t refund gas tho

[desert trout]

Watch gas war start up on second batch after everyone sees the price people are willing to pay anyways in the first batch.

[uneven dawn]

The decision to refund would be up to the Illuvium DAO, to come out of the treasury

[simple juniper]

Ya for the 2nd biggest thing in the NFT space (behind illuvium for obvious reasons) you think they would make their land sale correctly

[south belfry]

Would cut into rev dis so they wouldn’t do it

[little moon]

It wouldnt cut into revdis, they would have to sell tokens from the treasury for ETH and then distribute that ETH.

[south belfry]

The rev dis comes from the treasury doesn’t it?

[little moon]

I think they were scared the market was gonna tank. They wanted to do a dutch auction initially but they weren't gonna have it ready fast enough so they just did a flat priced sale.

[potent dock]

#799010390201466880 message

I mean, let's not pretend Yuga did a great job with their sale. You can be dissatisfied with a DA and not ignore reality at the same time. Major improvements could have been made even within the format they used. Burning $80M extra of DAO money is not ideal for any project.

[potent dock]

No. Vault =/= Treasury.

[desert trout]

I don’t see refunds happening, it’s not the team or DAO’s fault if people accept paying high gas prices knowing they could fail. If people want that in the end they should have voiced concerns strongly enough to begin with to change format to something that ensures no gas war can ever happen. It can be a tough lesson for everyone to learn if it plays out that way.

[simple juniper]

That’s actually a really good assumption I bet you are spot on

[south belfry]

Even so the people made the choice to pay it and if they made the choice to make the price 6eth and people still paid it like they did with gas included it would just be 6eth+ gas

Eth chain just goes to shit with hype, projects cause the problem by hyping it so much to the point it makes gas stupid

But like I asked before, when the sales are on imx do we get rid of the DA for those sales since the whole selling point of the DA is to help people save gas

[potent dock]

I'm always down to evaluate new bridges after they are built. Once full L2 sales are a possibility, there's no reason to not reassess the format being used.

[desert trout]

@south belfry my understanding was dutch auction was there for being able to choose your land plot location. Otw there were better options.

[south belfry]

It was mainly designed for the gas issue not for that reason

[south belfry]

But then what happens with future sales, do you make the price a little higher than the current floor which would make the floor go up on other stuff? Would kinda undermine the initial Dutch auction if it does bad

[desert trout]

I suppose what I would consider better options weren’t being used at the time of deciding so that’s possible.

[potent dock]

I mean, that would be evaluating an unbuilt bridge. Sure, that could be an issue. Loads of things could. Spending a bunch of time speculating about something that can't happen yet for technical reasons isn't a good use of time.

[desert trout]

New land would be starting from scratch so technically it shouldn’t be as valuable since you have to level it up and who knows how ling it would take to catch up.

[south belfry]

The main thing is if you add more supply to anything it devalues what’s out there currently

Even if it’s starting from scratch

[desert trout]

Yea so naturally when next sale comes secondary market will dump pretty hard and then new land will be somewhere below that line I would guess.

[south belfry]

If the first 20k doesn’t perform as well as people want it to or expect it could really hinder concurrent sales while dragging down the first batch with lack of excitement, that’s going to be the main risk

[desert trout]

I mean the performance of this land sale is insignificant compared to the actual games revenue flow. I think it’s unlikely but not impossible the next sale could be more expensive if the numbers are right.

[south belfry]

I’m not saying the sale, I’m saying the performance of land, blueprints/fuel production etc

[desert trout]

So the performance of illuvium, yea

[south belfry]

I say we just do all 100k at once and let it gradually grow with performance of the game

[desert trout]

Well the team is pretty confident the game is going to melt minds and if it does there’s a lot more money to be brought in from delaying the rest of the plot sales.

[hearty cradle]

if we do that, there will be oversupply of fuel

[south belfry]

Not really the dao controls most of it anyway there’s no way we can manipulate anything

[hearty cradle]

the dao can increase supply or remove liquidity.
but landowner will always supply at max capacity

[desert trout]

There could be an oversupply even with just 20k, or under, probably one or the other always. Fuel is ultimately an unfortunate byproduct of illuvium zero that makes things messy.

[hearty cradle]

it's all depend on the growth of new player (demand)

yea giving IZ fuel as utility really makes thing complicated and limited

[south belfry]

That may be the case but if it’s so expensive and people do the math and see it’s not worth it then some damage will be done to the current prices whichever they may be

[desert trout]

Not to mention the additional tax headaches

[hearty cradle]

now the whole economy is tied up to IZ, and the success of IZ, just as mentioned by @south belfry , will determine the success of ILV economy

adding to the mess is sILV2
use of sILV2 as alternative to fuel will affect stakers, not landowners

[desert trout]

Taxes really are the biggest obstacle blockchain games have to overcome.

[hearty cradle]

do you pay GST on crypto trade? i heard some countries have GST on swap too

[desert trout]

Gst?

[left musk]

That means canses

[hearty cradle]

GST or VAT

[south belfry]

I truly think releasing in batches will hurt a lot of people in the long run just for the sake of the DAO that the same people would be apart of

[hearty cradle]

id prefer 100k collection minting and let the market decide for fp

with the current system, the 2nd land sale must have higher starting price, otherwise you will lose trust in land value

[desert trout]

Who knows though, maybe the plan is to release new sets every time previous reaches full recoupment on investment. Can’t really complain much if you get all your money back or most before next set comes.

[random siren]

once revdis from game starts happening land sale price will go up for sure or at least stay the same

[hearty cradle]

there is no way that the dev have plan to undercut the 1st land sale

[desert trout]

Second sale doesn’t provide as much value to buyers though so saying it should be more expensive is confusing in its own right.

[hearty cradle]

it's gonna be real tricky

[desert trout]

Too many hypotheticals, it’s really not worth using the brain cells to debate it since we don’t know anything about the future.

[hearty cradle]

yea i have nothing to compare it to

[south belfry]

Even with 1b in rev a year for the game itd take a handful of years to recoup the cost, of t1 depending on what price they mint and silv will really dampen rev dis since people will use that to play for free

It’s not even really debating future just plug 1b in rev for a year and the 5% land owners will get with 20k plots is 2500 a year if all plots were equal but T1 isn’t going to get that much realistically based on its 1 plot for fuel

That’s being generous assuming illuvium does 1b in its first year

[desert trout]

I honestly think 1 bil is a failure itself. Top gacha games make that much as it is and they have to rely entirely on entertainment / lets be honest ‘waifu’ value to do so. The goal isn’t to match that but destroy it. But at least from token staker side of things 1 bil would be nice admittedly.

Not saying i expect us to hit or break 1 bil myself either though, but to be truly revolutionary it’s a minimum requirement to crush that mark imo.

[hearty cradle]

sometimes we forgot that mainstream think that "nft is scam"

[desert trout]

When most are we can’t say they’re wrong to assume so

[hearty cradle]

i showed the non-believers that big brands are doing nft, they still not buying it

[desert trout]

Big brands scam us too xD overpaying so much for their brand name

[hearty cradle]

yea, that

[desert trout]

No one wants to join in with the people screwing them over

[south belfry]

Yeah just pointing out that once more land gets dropped the value you get back will go down because it’s distributed across more so it all 100k we’re out and 1b in rev happened theoretically it would be 500$ per plot if they were all equal

[hearty cradle]

i hope they dnt do the 2nd in 6 months

[south belfry]

But really just doing all the land at once would have the best outcome

[inland nebula]

Sell the land the way it is now shows the confidence of the team that they deeply believe in the game will do very well overtime. That’s why selling the land in waves are best for the DAO, because once ppl see how successful the game and the land is doing, more ppl would want to buy land in the next sale, in turn push up the land price. This will for sure generate more revenue from land sale than selling them all at once and hoping ppl massively adopting it.

[hearty cradle]

sucks for landowner tho

[south belfry]

When does adding more supply ever drive up price in anything

If 1m more bitcoin got put into circulation today do you think the price would drive up because we’re that much closer to reaching the total supply?

[hearty cradle]

good example

well i guess crypto market has always been short term rather than long term, because the way the projects are, 2 years is considered a very long term holding

[south belfry]

3 months is like a year in crypto lol

[hearty cradle]

to be fair, releasing the land in stages imo is a defensive strategy
if the game is a success and it aces the matrix, they will release the 2nd early, but if it doesnt get enough traction they will delay the 2nd land sale

[south belfry]

Yeah I wouldn’t say it boasts confidence kinda more of a tactic to maybe make more money overall but can blow up in their face at the same time

And hurt the earlier investors

[hearty cradle]

that's what you get from selling land before releasing a product (the main game)

it is a very very risky investment

[south belfry]

Granted we get something to play it’s still not performing the utility it’s designed to without the main game being out so

[hearty cradle]

well ill be meeting up some mainsteam whale friends, ive been shilling this project to them

whales who spent $100k on a mobile game

lets see if i can get them onboard

[inland nebula]

That depends on how bullish ppl are about this product, how many times a good stock has been adding supply, and price still climb up and over run the previous pricing. It’s all about what ppl believe in.

[south belfry]

Also true but we’ve supposed to have been having marketing the past 2 weeks and it’s been pretty abysmal

[hearty cradle]

that's not how it's supposed to work for land. The value of land is scarcity

[south belfry]

I don’t get how people say it’s so hype when I see very little interaction on social platforms

[hearty cradle]

imagine you bought an apartment unit, and in the following year, a brand new apartment building is built next to yours

[south belfry]

But also Hyping stuff causes gas issues so it doesn’t bother me really

[hearty cradle]

it actually happened to me, the new building was built blocking my view, i was royally screwed
had to sell the unit at a loss

[inland nebula]

I think it’s the adoption rate of the game and the hype, if as mentioned by K 1.5 million ppl registered, that’s a lot of ppl interested in this game. It will only grow if the game is successful. The more ppl playing, the more ppl want to own a land if profitable. If it’s that successful, even if not very profitable, ppl will still hype into it, because K had mentioned future game will also utilize the land. It’s all about hype and how successful you are going to be. Look at BAYC, the success of BAYC make ppl blindly want to adopt whatever product they release, regardless there is an utility or not.

[hearty cradle]

Yuga has BAYC, MAYC, BAKC, cryptopunks, meebits before selling land lmao
people were not "blindly" ape in lol

did you know that holders got airdropped $ape? Is that not utility for you?

[inland nebula]

Yuga had BAYC initially. What makes ppl buy into the MAYC, does MAYC have any utility? Is it because of the hype and ppl believe in it will be successful?

[hearty cradle]

BAYC is a product is it not?

[south belfry]

The market cap of ape is almost 5b 10x over ilv

The hype level is incomparable

[hearty cradle]

im sure i havent smoked my joint lol
BAYC is a product, you must be new to NFT

[inland nebula]

The rest of the chemical lab, Ape, last night’s drama is all of a chain effect already. But you should already get my point.

[south belfry]

The ability for someone to build their brand off a pfp alone is their main thing rn

[hearty cradle]

what is the utility of Salvator Mundi painting that was bought at $500m by an mid east prince?

what is the utility of van gough painting?

[south belfry]

Money laundering lol

[hearty cradle]

what is the utility of Richard Mille watch? can you run apps on a richard mille?

Richard mille fp is $60k lmao, applewatch is much cheaper and can take a call

[inland nebula]

I’m not going/planning to convince you anything. My point: if the game is successful, the second-fifth waves of land sale will not dilute the land price and value. That’s it.

[hearty cradle]

your lack of understanding or ability to collect collectibles does not remove its value

[hearty cradle]

The crown prince of saudia arabia who bought salvator mundi doesnt need money laundering

[south belfry]

The people who buy those will be so far behind so why would it not dilute

[inland nebula]

Someone just in the attacking mode, I’m not here to prove you my background or anything, judge or assume as much as you want. 🙂

[south belfry]

You can’t compare fresh land to built land

[inland nebula]

Good night

[simple grove]

So much heat today lol

[hearty cradle]

it's the usual revdis bro vs landowner

[little moon]

we need some sick revdis bro vs landboi memes

[hearty cradle]

jeff

https://tenor.com/view/thou-art-server-joker-heath-ledger-christopher-nolan-batman-gif-21411406

[empty path]

Are you doing the audit?

[hearty cradle]

landboi or land daddy?

[little moon]

aint nobody calling you daddy

Unless you have kids. They might.

[hearty cradle]

[south belfry]

He is it’s actually November

[little moon]

I went with a combination of moonboi + land. Im open to suggestions for better names though

[simple grove]

We should let @hearty cradle mod for a few months.

[little moon]

I think Jaganite, solarstorm, and myself fall under the 'knowledgable enough to be a mod but we like to argue too much' category.

[hearty cradle]

i paid good money, i should be coming

[hearty cradle]

Nevaaaa

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/new-girl-youre-right-good-valid-gif-4971614

[simple grove]

I’m sure @empty path can hook you guys up if you want to mod a bit. You guys do contribute a lot minus the bickering. And always here.

[little moon]

orange me bro

[mystic gull]

I went to sleep and woke up. And this chat is still ongoing ...

[simple grove]

Don’t be shy…. I know you want it

[little moon]

Discord has been lit today. I wasted the whole day just chatting 🤣

[hearty cradle]

i wont be neutered

[south belfry]

This chat would be pretty dead if it weren’t for like 5 people

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-gif-23501265

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/afraid-dog-pup-puppy-hiding-gif-17297710

[empty path]

Feel free to reply to any questions you can find

[vivid cipher]

Alts are frowned upon.

[spring jetty]

My question is how to make millions

[little moon]

NGL i wouldnt mind if you guys made something like a 'trusted community member' role so those of us who help out a lot got a bit of clout.

[south belfry]

Wait for revdis

[mystic gull]

Start with billions and then it will become millions

[little moon]

actually fuck that. I would hate half the people with the role and that would ruin it for me.

[hearty cradle]

trusted?

[south belfry]

Koolaid role?

[little moon]

Dont put me in the same category as solar. Please I beg you.

[vivid cipher]

Not the right word but something

[vivid cipher]

Too late. RANGER

[hearty cradle]

solar can get spammy role

[south belfry]

Solar should have the bot role

[hearty cradle]

!solar