🎮〕illuvium-zero

[ivory vine]

You should start with all the information already provided in #❓〕faq #791148036935516161 #🔗〕helpful-links 🙂

[astral tapir]

Yep makes sense

[hollow igloo]

oct/nov cant wait

[cinder fractal]

Finished both gdd documents great stuff, but I have a question are we going to use ethereum blockchain for marketplace? Or somehow we are going to escape that?

[compact mural]

Eth layer 2

[cinder fractal]

Thanks I know Kieran said months ago how we will use layer2 for main game but I wasn't sure about this marketplace, good to hear it's same

I guess we will all wait :) I can only hope how I can buy some tier1 land for 1000/2000$

[vocal robin]

ILV0 will be a idle game, won't it?
How playable will it be?
I am looking forward to invest hours of hours in Illuvium 😆

[sharp galleon]

probably 300-500K lol

[normal crane]

Fr?

[cinder fractal]

Everything is explained here you can see some pictures2

Is there some document like this one but about main game?

[proper matrix]

Share some bro you’ll buy all the land

Due to inflation I feel like the land might be a better investment at the time than the “ilv” token

[sharp galleon]

yeah

[sharp galleon]

TBH i dont think i will get as much as i would like

[brisk gull]

I would like to say 1 T4 for sure.

[sharp galleon]

hahaha, yeah i guess a bit more

but who knows, could get really crazy

[sage birch]

Do we have any idea the intervals between land sales?

[brisk gull]

Yea it was expecting the prices would go really high.

[sage birch]

I mean how long after the first 20k sell will they do the next 20k

[brisk gull]

We don't know yet, my guess would be the 2nd to be after the main game release.

[sharp galleon]

no plans out regarding that

[sage birch]

Going to be really interesting to see how the price of land changes

Can't tell if it's going to be better to buy blindly on release or wait til the next 20k drops and be more assured on the value

[brisk gull]

Can't tell either. But we are already close to 80k members for 20k lands. So there will not be enough lands for everyone. Some people will play for free waiting for the next sale. I think buying the first sale is a pretty safe bet.

[sharp galleon]

considering that we dont know I dont think there will be one before ILZ is in oublic beta

[sage birch]

Oh yeah true

[sharp galleon]

i will blow my whole budget in the first sale

[junior depot]

If the item was bought where do we store the land nft?

[sharp galleon]

Yeah, stored as NFT

[sage birch]

Probably only about 10% of the discord actually have the fund available to purchase land. And the top 1% have close to 90% of all buying power. I'm just hoping the whales don't go for the lower tier land as well

[junior depot]

Do we need to create an asset in Metamask? how do we do this?

[sharp galleon]

I think most whales will battle dor Tier3+

[proper matrix]

I doubt 20k people will participate lol and 20k can afford top tier land

[sage birch]

Is there a cap on how much land one person can own?

[sharp galleon]

yeah you need a wallet, Metamask is fine

[brisk gull]

Happy to be part of the 10% then 😅 I'm gonna fight for 1 or few T1. My goal would be to get one in each region.

[sharp galleon]

nope

[proper matrix]

Majority of people just can’t afford to casually invest 5k into crypto let alone buy land hahaha. Doubt we will be in panic buying them to the point they will all disappear from us

[junior depot]

Will it automatically create an asset in Metamask, I dont have to pre-create one?

[brisk gull]

True, that balance the fact that some will pick more than one.

[proper matrix]

There will@be a timer I’m pretty sure

[sharp galleon]

lot of people in Axie payed 2k plus for ateam

[proper matrix]

I know that’s what really surprises me. People are willing to put that much into a game also especially in the Philippines cuz that’s a lot of money there

[craggy dragon]

What do y’all think about capping each Illuvium account to a certain amount of land allowed?

[sharp galleon]

bad idea imo and easy gamable

[brisk gull]

Yea, it makes sense, but things can get pretty crazy in those sales😅

[proper matrix]

Exactly so mr whale @sharp galleon can’t buy them all from us I want some hahahahaha. I’m putting maybe 20-50k if ILV hits 2-4k I might shove 100

[craggy dragon]

This. I wonder if they could cap land sale for initial purchases so others have a chance, but allow whales to purchase from other players with no cap

It’s an unrefined food for thought tho 🙂

[proper matrix]

Should be a cap of waiting time I reckon.

[sharp galleon]

If you woould do that you will have to implement a whitelisting system, which will exclude newcomers. If you restrict one account to one land then you can game that by buying form multiple accounts

[proper matrix]

Whatever hahahah

[craggy dragon]

Depends on if they allow multiple accounts per person - currently no comment on this, I’ve asked previously.

[sharp galleon]

How owud you know if 10 specific addresses are mine?

[proper matrix]

Vpn. Different wallets. Different devices .

[sharp galleon]

I can just fill up 10 addresses from an exchange and you wouldnt know they are all mine

[proper matrix]

The ato man can tell me unless your not KYC

[clear badge]

100K USD? you're a whale yoself

[craggy dragon]

Definitely would advise against exchange addresses

[proper matrix]

If it hits 4k I might have to buy land hahahahha. Better than holding the token all in

[sage birch]

I feel like there should be some kind of limit. Like each player can only own up to 30 T1, 15 T2, 10 T3 ect. Would eliminate the chance of 10 people owning all the available land

[sharp galleon]

I don't mean using exchange addresses for buying land, I mean I can withdraw 10ETH to 10 different Ethereum addresses and you wouldn't know these are mine

[brisk gull]

Better than owning real estate also hehe

[proper matrix]

Atm yes hahahah. My pops owns his own real estate he said don’t buy houses now hahahha

[sharp galleon]

The problem is you can't implement this

[sage birch]

Has it been suggested before then?

[brisk gull]

Yea bro, that's the future. virtual estate > real estate. Anyway it's an asset regardless.

[clear badge]

hmm let's not get ahead of ourselves, life is still on earth. Real estate > virtual estate, though in terms of appreciation virtual may get you further

[proper matrix]

Well with all these Australian lockdowns we might as well be living in a VR land. Buy some land and use your VR to see your illuvials

[sharp galleon]

Yeah, whitelisting has been considered, but wouldn't be fair, especially for newcomers

[sage birch]

In what way is it not fair to newcomers?

[brisk gull]

I'm just joking mate. However I see it as a valuable investment but also as a completely different one.

[brisk gull]

Can't wait fof the VR to be integrated to the game.

[sharp galleon]

If you're too late to cut off date you cannot buy. Also: it is pretty easy game able. I can just create 100 email accounts and get 100 whitelist entries. Also KYCing everyone looks super bad, especially.in crypto imo

[proper matrix]

One day

[sage birch]

Oh I was thinking more just to blacklist players who reach the land cap. But yeah that still wouldn't stop people from creating alt accounts

[craggy dragon]

The time it takes for others to xfer and move funds would give others time to purchase. I do agree though it’s probs not a healthy option to hard cap

[sage birch]

As long as the whales go for T3+ and us guppies get a fair shot at everything below I'm happy. Just worried they're gonna go after everything

[sharp galleon]

Yeah its a really tough problem and requires a lot of tradeoffs

[sharp galleon]

pretty sure you will be able to get T1 for 2ETH

[potent dock]

IF they outbid everyone, it's a net positive for ILV holders, because they spent a shitton of ETH.

[sage birch]

Yeah for ILV holders as a whole. But for people hoping to get land it's a shit situation

[sage birch]

Was hoping a bit less than that, but we'll see

[sharp galleon]

i guess that would be max price, should go for lower imo

[potent dock]

For sure. What do you see as a reasonable alternative?

The way I see it, if I'm gonna get priced out (whether it's by whales or just other players), that's beyond my control. The way the system is set up with a Dutch auction just means that if I'm getting priced out, at least the DAO is extracting the maximum value possible for land. So we're not getting like, outgassed or something, just outpriced.

[slow cedar]

Dutch auction just makes it fair without whales having to game the system. 100k lands and 70k people in discord suggests those that want lands should be OK, as whales will go higher tier likely

[sage birch]

I think the system they have in place is probably as good as it can be. Maybe there is some alternative solution that makes it fair for everyone but if the community hasn't already thought of it, I'm certainly not smart enough to

[compact mural]

I hope they do the land sale on layer 2, really dont wanna pay insane gas.

[slow cedar]

Fair for everyone often involves guppies wanting to make profit on their purchase - dtch auction is truly fair... You buy when you're ready, and if they sold out you weren't ready at their lowest price

[craggy dragon]

My speculation would be that even high gas would be minuscule in comparison to land prices

[compact mural]

If land is 1eth I don't want to pay .3eth in gas like I did for some nft drops recently. It only forces you to buy 2 lands to sell one to make up for losing the gas.

[potent dock]

There was talk of a whitelist, but it had a bunch of issues that ended up meaning it wasn't viable.

Most "equitable" solutions seem to have a major exploit that actually just makes them more unfair than a dutch auction.

[craggy dragon]

0.3 gas 👀

[compact mural]

Yeah stonercats launch was nutty. But I saw even worse gas for the recent cyberkongs drop.

[potent dock]

I'm in the same boat in that I'd like to see a good distribution of land for overall game health, but I'd rather things be fair and get priced out than people game the system and come out WAY ahead.

[compact mural]

ETH desperately needs nft drops to start happening on layer 2 because its getting ridiculous tbh

[sage birch]

is there an ETA for layer 2

[compact mural]

Layer 2 for ERC 20 tokens is rolling out rn, arbitrum is on uniswap already, immutable X is the nft layer 2 idk what their roadmap is like

[potent dock]

I've been creeping the IMX disc and playing a bit of Gods Unchained (a project using IMX). It still needs work but they are making progress, they worked out some issues with payment the other day.

I think if IMX isn't doing what Illuvium needs it to do, the team has said they would develop their own solution.

[slow cedar]

Dutch auction should spread out drops and therefore help to ease gas spikes

[proud cipher]

Etherium is unuseable right now, cost prohibitive. Ridiculous

[compact mural]

I mean its definitely usable, I use it everyday, you just have to be moving large amounts of funds. But like i've said 10x over. Layer 2 is in the process of launching so it will be cheaper within a month or 2.

[proud cipher]

It’s killing projects left and right. Shibaswap is dead, it’s where projects go to eliminate normal people

[compact mural]

Lmao okay now you're just spreading fud. Shibaswap died because the owner stopped giving out rewards.

[proud cipher]

Exactly. Great for gaming right? NOT

[compact mural]

The game is going to be on layer 2... which will be great for gaming yeah.

[proud cipher]

Beforecrewards stopped it cost $70 to claim $2

[compact mural]

How many times am I going to have to say it. LAYER 2 IS LAUNCHING. it's about to be over. Uniswap is already on arbitrum. 1inch is on optimism. You cant ignore the solution that is literally rolling out rn

[proud cipher]

It has to be layer two, yes. Can’t claim right now sILV due to fees. No I don’t have tens of thousands to “move large amounts of funds”

[proud cipher]

Let’s hope! So much worse since London EIP

[compact mural]

My sushiswap was $25, if that's too expensive for you idk what to tell you, probably shouldnt be in highly speculative markets if you cant afford a $25 fee.

[potent dock]

I think everyone would appreciate cheaper gas prices, but in no way does this have anything to do with #🎮〕illuvium-zero .

No one here controls the pacing of Ethereum upgrades or has any impact on how fast shard chains get rolled out. Gas is expensive sometimes, and that sucks, but we can move that convo to another channel.

[cinder fractal]

I added some liquidity today eth/ilv I paid 60$ for couple of transactions it doesn't matter how much money someone has it shouldn't be that much

[proud cipher]

Harmony, BNB, soon Elrond fractions of a cent per transaction. Transactions shouldn’t be $25+++, ridiculous. Wasteful and ancient technology

[compact mural]

Yeah eth isnt scaled yet. Either wait for it to scale with layer 2 or dont pay it?

[compact mural]

Centralized projects I wouldnt touch with a 10ft pole, offering no security.

[proud cipher]

It isn’t on modern blockchains. ETH is archaic

[compact mural]

There are no modern decentralized blockchains w/ smart contracts. Name one.

[cinder fractal]

This project is only reason why I'm willing to use ethereum completely terrible and ancient technology like you said

[proud cipher]

No security on Elrond? Do some tease arch on adaptive state sharding. Bulletproof

[cinder fractal]

Playing nft game on icon can't be happier

[proud cipher]

Cryptoblades on BNB here

[compact mural]

ICON and BNB lmfao okay guys, im out, this is off topic anyways. I wouldnt risk my money on centralized networks but clearly you guys will.

[cinder fractal]

I would say how they are at least secure like layer2 on ethereum

[proud cipher]

Will ILVzero be layer two?

[ivory bough]

everything in-game will be on L2 and therefore you won't pay gas INSIDE the game, for other transactions outside the game gas is needed

[short lichen]

CAN I USE BINANCE OR ETHERIM FOR ILV?

[ivory vine]

Main currency in game is Ethereum. sILV can be used for some of the fees as well.

[sharp galleon]

Full L2 will be in summer 2022 right? Or already with public beta release

[ivory bough]

I think full public release unless IMX is not ready by then. not sure. @ivory vine you know the answer to that?

[sharp galleon]

kk

[ivory vine]

I'm not sure if anything new has been decided upon yet since this: #💬〕general message

[sharp galleon]

Would be amazing to have it on L2 form the get go

[brisk garnet]

this is why eth is ngmi fellas

any speculative date range for dutch auction?

[sharp galleon]

This take is not good. 25$ for people with less than 25k is not really sustainable. L2 need sto come and it needs to come now

[ivory vine]

Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings here. Staking will still be on L1. So depositing, claiming and withdrawing will continue to have GAS fees 🙂

[compact mural]

Uniswap already has layer 2, I imagine sushi wont be far behind.

[hearty stirrup]

10 weeks? I could be way off though

[ivory vine]

Should be around that according to what I remember from the initial estimations. Certainly not within the next few weeks. Exact date could of course still change depending on how development goes and even more importantly what the final details for the land sale will be 🙂

[hearty stirrup]

So that would put it around November. Did the proposal pass to use sILV?

[ivory vine]

Check #📰〕governance-news . The proposal made there is the one that passed as is 🙂

[hearty stirrup]

Is it pinned? I was just reading the channel chat lol

[ivory vine]

#📰〕governance-news message

[hearty stirrup]

Perfect, yeah I did read the proposal, have re read it and Eth and sILV will be used for land sales if it’s passed. Which from the 100% votes looks like it will

[brisk garnet]

man, if layer 2 still means $15 for a single trade... thats not good.

[sharp galleon]

Yeah but still need a lot of improvement. Optimism is still not cheap enough

[brisk garnet]

need sub-$1 to be viable imo

[compact mural]

Swaps on uniswap arbitrum are at like 50 cents rn. I've seen as low as a quarter. It'll probably fluxuate between 20 cents and 2 dollars from what I've heard.

Prices will also get lower as there are more l2's to choose from (like when optimism launches)

[cosmic aspen]

the optimism swaps become expensive once the soft cap hits

they limit the amount of transactions as to not overload their capacity as they roll it out

[compact mural]

Arent they slow rolling tps tho? so it'll go up as they feel safe unlocking it

[cosmic aspen]

exactly

[quiet heron]

Any additional details about the revenue sharing related to blueprints created in illuvium-zero? Would we be personally designing the item such that it is a unique NFT that others can use in the main game? How much of the revenue would we get when it is used?

Been doing some heavy reading over the last two days but haven't seen anything discussed related to this

[chilly hemlock]

I’m not entirely sure but I’m guessing we do not get to design our own blueprints. I don’t know exactly how they’ll be acquired or used either. The proposal passed very recently so there will be more info soon

[quiet heron]

Thanks! I'll take a look at the proposals. As long as they divulge the details before the land sale, all is good! It would be cool to add your own creative touch to the items and get royalties from them. My one concern with them generating all of the items is how folks in the main game would differentiate between items that look very similar. Suppose it could a pool scenario though

[vivid cipher]

The blueprints would not be player designed. My understanding of how they would work is that they would be blueprints for new equipment that the land owner would then get a portion of all the fees spent to mint those newly discovered/developed equipment. It’s a storyline thing. The developers create new equipment and the land owners scan illuvials, research their findings, and develop (mint) blueprints for that new type of equipment. Only then would players in the maingame be able to start minting that type of equipment.

Tell me how it really works Johnny

[amber atlas]

this

😉

[mortal merlin]

He knows too much.

[amber atlas]

think of it like a pool that contains all knowledge created by the devs, when you do research if you are researching in the right area, then you will discover something from that pool

[grizzled helm]

Woah

[vivid cipher]

Nah I definitely talked to Aaron about it in mod chat

[quiet heron]

Thanks for this info! So can only one land owner mint that blueprint NFT or could multiple land owners mint the same one and everyone shares the revenue?

[vivid cipher]

What I want to know is if this will be a thing… #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[amber atlas]

there is an open question on how this will work

[vivid cipher]

I’d imagine single owner would be better. But only if there were enough different designs out there to be discovered.

[amber atlas]

thats exactly the challenge

[grizzled helm]

Looking forward to it Johnny! Good luck on building. Let us know if you ever want to bounce ideas off of us :))

[amber atlas]

if it is pure single ownership, and we want research to be a key part of the game, then we are going to needs tens or hundreds of thousands of items

it might also be somehting like, someone discovers something and gets the BP revenue share, but other people can still discover it

[grizzled helm]

Could it be tier based?

[amber atlas]

they wouldn't get revenue share, but wouldn't have to pay the original discoverer

[quiet heron]

Makes total sense. Could always start with one blueprint to start and go from there based on how many new ideas the team can come up with 🙂

[grizzled helm]

Like less rare blueprints

[quiet heron]

Yeah, that would be a big burden and time sink. I see your point about multiple land owners finding the same blueprint

[amber atlas]

in any case there are a few options, it seems like something we need Aaron to write a tokenomics paper on 😉

the implementation in the game will be very similar in all cases, so we can still build the core mechanic

[quiet heron]

That would be great! Thanks for taking the time to answer 🙂

[quiet heron]

I like this. Could put a cap on the number of people who can get the blue print for specific items. Best of both worlds

[grizzled helm]

Another idea I just had is like having a events where people have the chance for a limited period of time to gain certain blueprints, after that, those blueprints won’t be able to be developed after. Kinda like Pokemon Go limited time events for raids.

[amber atlas]

yes the tiers idea with a 'discovery cap' sounds interesting

[compact mural]

Do we know if land is going to be priced in ETH or USD yet?

[grizzled helm]

Another interesting idea could be similar to certain mechanisms in Pokemon where some pokemon will only appear at night or when exposed to certain constraints such as berries or honey. That would be interesting if people could put things on their lands to lure Illuvials to scan them :))

[amber atlas]

structures can have upgrades and extensions, so maybe certain extensions bias your scans towards certain kinds of Illuvials

I'm designing the first detailed tech tree right now, need to concentrate, but keep posting ideas, I will read them for sure

[cinder crest]

Do I need to write an iip to create an extension that specifically targets tiktalik?

[grizzled helm]

Yes

[dense cipher]

Yea that’s true

[low geode]

COuldnt you make multple of the same blueprints but give them differnt colors or minor stat change?

[sharp galleon]

hahaha

[amber atlas]

the numbers stack up fast, lets say just 20% of land holders are interested in research, and that it is okay to get a reward from research every month, for a year of content that means we need 12 x 20,000 x .2 items, even if there were 10 color schemes available for every item that means we need 4.8k of items

stat modifiers allow us to reduce it further, but I think this has too many issues... why would anyone build a jetpack +1 speed when they can build a jetpack +2 speed

I think it ends up rendering the vast majority of blueprints useless (or at least unused), which is a worse outcome

[low geode]

This is why you get paid the big bucks!

[amber atlas]

I think there is something in this idea of Tiers, I'm going to draft a proposal for Aaron to check out around the idea that the Tier of the Blueprint is about how hard it is to research, which manifests itself as a time limit for which the blueprint can't be duplicated

[trail kayak]

nothing interesting to add just want to say how awesome it is getting this level of insight into game mechanics and design

[amber atlas]

Basic idea: there are undiscovered BPs and discovered BPs, if you are the first person to discover a BP you get rev share from people using that BP, after some period of time (based on Tier) other people can also discover the BP, these people don't get rev share, but can use it themselves without paying a fee, or just sell the BP

a Tier 1 BP might be exclusive for 30 days wheras a T5 might be exclusive forever

anyway its all conjecture, need to work it through with Aaron and Ben, but I think there is something interesting in there which allows both regular rewards from research and also some amazing moments (the same feeling finding your first rare foil in a CCG game when you were a kid)

[grizzled helm]

Glad you liked it!

:))

[quiet heron]

All this sounds great! Do keep us posted!

Might be too much to implement at the start but it would be cool if there were certain items that required a certain number of people to research it first before it unlocked (complementary research or something). Could result in people working together collaboratively. Then again maybe I'm just a science nerd 🙃

[chilly hemlock]

We’re all nerds here, all these ideas sound so cool to me. It’s amazing to see how quickly @amber atlas can crap out pure gold for this game

[stoic rapids]

sounds cool, my only concern is that if there are lots of players and only a handful of rev-share blueprints, researching would feel like a lottery instead of a play-to-earn thing

[amber atlas]

a valid concern, but both types of BPs are NFTs, so you can still earn from the non rev-share BPs by selling them, or earn by creating the items that use the BPs and selling them at a lower price (because you don't have to pay the fee to the progenitor BP holder)

there are different types of player personas with different goals:```
some people will play to purely maximise revenue, and for those people it is probably the Fuel generation path that makes the most sense

others might want to play for self sufficiency where they mainly (or exclusively) use stuff they create themselves (maybe we even have an achievement for this like "Ironman mode" in Runescape)

others might like to find niche markets where they can take risks to potentially make big gains, or even just make steady gains and be notable because they are the only person doing a certain kind of thing ("Johnny the Weapon Forger")

I think the game (and the Illuvium universe) is richer if we can enable all kinds of players and give all of them interesting decisions to make

[quiet heron]

Do you envision the "research" requiring some amount of skill so it less a lottery and more about the smartest/fastest person wins?

[stoic rapids]

oh if you can avoid fees to the progenitor holder with a secondary BP then that sounds like a less extreme divide 👍

[amber atlas]

no, its just too far from how the City Builder is structured, there is SOME skill in setting up your structures to maximise your chances, but its not a "Best Player wins" type scenario

the balance is in ensuring there are enough BPs that someone who focuses on this track has a good chance to get good rewards over time

[quiet heron]

Agreed. This is one of the major reasons I'm interested in buying land. Would be nice to know there is a decent shot at success

[amber atlas]

hopefully its more like a rare drop in a (grindy) MMORPG than a lottery, if you keep going you might have dry spells but over time the drops approach the theoretical drop chance

there are a lot of levers for balance here, for example the price charged for each use of the primary BP can be a good lever to make secondary BPs more (or less) valuable

[quiet heron]

Yes, sounds like a good mission for an economist/game theorist 🙂

[amber atlas]

yep, and we will also get our data scientists on it, running models, etc

[wind briar]

Please stop showing how cool you will make it until after the sale

[quiet heron]

I'm only two days into learning about this project (thank you TikTok influencer) but I'm impressed with the communication, transparency, and community you have here. Look forward to learning more

[viscid badger]

Welcome

[near whale]

Did someone call for an economist?

[little moon]

Hi guys, for playing the game my understanding is I need a laptop with at least a 1050 ti graphics card, I'm not a gamer! Is that all I check for if I go shopping?

[mortal merlin]

I wouldnt shop yet.

Official specs are not out yet

[patent hawk]

I know the official specs are not out yet. But you think a basic laptop with a non high end graphics be able to run the game?

[mortal merlin]

No idea.

[patent hawk]

Ok thanks. Better to wait then.

[grizzled helm]

Illuvium Zero will be on mobile!!

[viral star]

https://tenor.com/view/letgo-lets-goooo-pickles-lets-go-excited-gif-13808708

[little moon]

Thanks; so I'm super naive when it comes to tech required for gaming.

Your response means then that details about the type of software required to run the game will come out?

[crisp briar]

The transparency so far hands down the best I've seen

[grizzled helm]

They will tell us once they can confirm 🙂

Team is working to optimize, lets keep this in #💬〕general

[bronze plank]

is this the minigame place

[grizzled helm]

Yes

[bronze plank]

what is the minigame? Ive seen people talking about it but I dont understand it.

[grizzled helm]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

@bronze plank

Read the GDD 🙂 and see #📰〕governance-news

[bronze plank]

whats gdd

[grizzled helm]

click the link

Game Design Document

[bronze plank]

Ok, got it thanks

[severe karma]

You think we could bid on separate tiers or is the auction you only place one bid for one type of land and pray you get it

Or do u just put ur bid and you get what you get based on your position

[small star]

Is there any rough and still WIP for a roadmap/timeline for ILV-0 ?

[unreal bobcat]

It's a dutch auction so it starts high and goes low. When it's at a price acceptable by you you just click buy and you get it

[bitter glade]

There will be actual land plots that you can see all the data for.

There will only be a buy now price. You buy, you get.

The price will start high and drop down. If you wait too long someone else will buy.

[bitter glade]

My IIP.

[brave vapor]

Do we know when the starting price will be announced Aaron?

[small star]

Found it. Only need the official start date once validated by the governance i suppose 👍

[bitter glade]

We do not. Probably “all of it”.

But it will decay exponentially.

[vivid cipher]

Yeah starting price should be super high. Should stop those that think being the fastest to buy will net them a profit.

[slow cedar]

I'm looking forward to all the "who on Earth can afford these over priced lands" comments 2 mins after the auction starts

[vivid cipher]

It’ll be like the balancer sale. But even crazier. We probably gonna need a super slowmode and a new bot command.

This’ll be hanging out in my clipboard ready to pasting… “just shut up and wait”

https://tenor.com/view/tom-hanks-just-wait-gif-8524221

[slow cedar]

Haha, for sure! I hope the team do sales in batches with a staggered start (maybe 100 lands every 10 mins) so we can make it more clear. If it's 20k at once, when the first t1 sells fomo will go crazy

[vivid cipher]

I’ve heard it’ll be batches. But that could mean anything. Batches of 20k could be all that means.

[sharp galleon]

So excited for ILZ

[bitter glade]

I’ll have to come out with a formula for parcels per batch, and batches per tranche. 😛

[mellow palm]

i hope there’s a land sale for ilv holders and small holders like me 🥲

also if its gonna be on sale there’ll be something to prevent bot sniping cuz that’s always been a common thing when nft game does a sale and i cant even secure due to bots 😭

[proper matrix]

Tier 4 land affordable? 10-30k

[clear badge]

There will be 50 Tier 4 land plots available right? If so then I doubt it's just 30K

[blissful storm]

It will be interesting to see how much these will go for if ILV and ETH pump by then

[south forge]

Wow @ pinned messages

I didn’t really care to play ILV:Z but now… I’m in for sure 🤑🤑

[small star]

@bitter glade I suppose there is +/- for each but, any opinion about what will be best, buying - just as example - 10 tiers 1 at 1k or 1 tiers 2 at 10k ?

[ivory bough]

You're gonna have to play it of you need stuff like fuel or blueprints. It'll be in close connections to the main game and make it more fun esp since the mobile version of the main game is gonna come out next year

[sharp galleon]

Will all the parcels in a batch be next to each other? So could I buy a whole batch and all parcels are neighbors?

[bitter glade]

Bots won’t be an issue.

[bitter glade]

If you have a look in my GDD you will see my thoughts.

[bitter glade]

You don’t need to play IZ. you will always be able to make stuff. You just pay for it.

[bitter glade]

Not sure yet.

[sharp galleon]

thx, interesting waht the effects of that would be

[ivory bough]

yeah that's what I meant. used bad wording. Though I liked the way you called it: IZ 😄

[azure cedar]

Hey guys , will we be able to buy lands with sILV ?

[ivory bough]

yep

[sage tree]

Do we know any numbers yet on where the the dutch auction will start for each tier of certain land?

[dense cipher]

Don’t think so

[sage tree]

cool. thx

[dense cipher]

But gonna have news soon I think.. a lot of people waiting for that

[sage tree]

Do we have any idea when the land auction will start, or around what date?

[ivory bough]

10 - 12 weeks. need to stay tuned for the exact date

[dense cipher]

They said 10 weeks from approve, so might be end of October to mid November

[sage tree]

Thanks, much appreciated

[sage tree]

thanks

[pine salmon]

Guys anyone knows if Illuvium zero will be just in Android or also on iPhone?

[trail kayak]

google play store and ios app store both are targeted

[smoky vigil]

So is obtaining land a mini game to acquire more resources for the release of Illuvium? Is there more info on land in other documents i.e. what land provides based off tier?

[ivory vine]

Two GDDs pinned in this channel and a proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[low geode]

There was more proposed information related to lands. Specifically that they each would produce different types of resources and then multiple types of resources would need to be combined to make fuel. As tier goes up so does production of that specific resource.

[low geode]

Yes what Stomi said…

[smoky vigil]

Ahh land seems to have active play with fuel and risky play with niche items.

Man this mini game seems already well thought out.

[grizzled helm]

You can thank @amber atlas and Aaron for their amazing ideas so far! As well as many members of our community ❤️

[smoky vigil]

Seriously huge thanks.

I thought land was like being a fuedal lord making people pay taxes for living on their land. Instead it's like a whole meta game of itself

[grizzled helm]

Ya scroll up and read the convos about the research! Its gonna be amazing

[fierce glen]

Quick question, do you have to own land in order to play the mini game?

[grizzled helm]

There will be a F2P side

So yes and no

[fierce glen]

Makes sense thanks!

[grizzled helm]

Def read the GDD and some of the convos in this channel 🙂

Lots of great discussion

[fierce glen]

Yep been having a full read through! That was the only question as it seems the mini game is for land buyers only, I do see T-0 land doesn't produce fuel which is where I thought it might be accessible to everyone like main game

[grizzled helm]

Yep exactly

T0 land is the F2P element

[quiet heron]

Got two more questions for the group! 1. Will there be opportunities to interact with other players in illuvium zero besides trying to buy up their land? 2. Will we be able to roam around our land plots and others' like a RPG or will be operating from more of a satellite view of the land?

[cinder fractal]

From what I learned reading documents, you will have a drone that is limited within your land range and our interaction with other players will be only on marketplace

Everything is well explained in 2 documents you can find under pins

[quiet heron]

Thanks, I did read these two docs but wasn't certain what was meant by the drone

What you're saying makes sense tho

[cinder fractal]

It is described how we can only scan iluvians if they are passing our land so I would say how dron is limited to that area for sure

[quiet heron]

Appreciate you connecting the dots for me. Was having trouble visualizing how the drone and scan functions would work in practice

[cinder fractal]

I think dron is only for building facilities on the land but scanner is the one for scanning iluvians, of course I can bi wrong and drone can go further but I don't think so... What would be the purpose

[quiet heron]

Yeah, for sure. That seems to add up. In the future, it would be cool if we could explore, collaborate, etc. to build cities and such

[cinder fractal]

It looks how we are going to have guilds for sure everyone is looking in that direction

[valid canyon]

but you need to give % from transaction to apple...how it will work?

[valid canyon]

is it correct? as i understand, all land will have fuel and fuel is erc-20 token. from tier of land is how much fuel you can produce

[low geode]

I was talking related to what I read here: #🎮〕illuvium-zero message. Of course things may have changed or evolved. Looks like there is a newer pinned post that supports what you’re saying.

[fierce glen]

Pinned messages have a lot of info

[viral star]

https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/08/22/prices.html

Some pretty interesting ideas that relate directly with our up coming land sale.

[viscid badger]

Interesting

[little moon]

Any idea roughly how many tier 4 lands there will be total?

[brisk plume]

if t5 is 20 mils, t4 is probably between 1 and 20 mil

t3 between 100k and 1 mil, t2 between 10k and 100k

t1 between 1$ and 10k. Warning: I am pulling numbers from my ass

[idle oak]

Guess it remains to be seen whether it’s worth buying multiple t1’s or one t2…..

[little moon]

Supposed to be between 1000-2000 tier 4 lands in total Jeff said

Am I an idiot buying land in the mini game is the same land as the main game correct?

[sage tree]

A lot of whacky numbers on land here lol .I guess it's just unpredictable at the moment. We know it will be expensive though

[little moon]

I am talking number of lands not price

That’s straight from Jeff

[sage tree]

yeah, no doubt. I know. Just saying in general. 👍

I'm buying land no matter what the price basically but numbers seem all over the place at moment

[little moon]

Agreed

[sage tree]

Looking forward to it though

[little moon]

Praying for a tier 4 but looking like 3 might be 100k it will be interesting

Really higher prices the better more eyes on the game

[sage tree]

yeah. we'll have to wait n see I guess

[vivid cipher]

I do not believe the land in the illuvium zero minigame is the actual land that is going to be visited in the main illuvium RPG. Except for perhaps the 7 tier 5s.

[little moon]

Good to know thanks I’m confused on that still

Saw interview with Kieran sounded like it’s same land, but not sure

[tacit cliff]

👀

[vivid cipher]

I haven’t been keeping up with all the interviews that’s for sure. I do know that the regions the land of the minigame are in match the regions in the main game. So it’ll definitely have similar qualities. But the whole minigame lore is that the drones are building up in locations of the Illuvium world that are inaccessible to the Valain rangers in the main game.

[fallow igloo]

I believe he said they do. There are only 7 T5s which represent the 7 regions of the game

[vivid cipher]

Yeah the 7 tier 5s would have representations in the main game. But the other 199993 lands don’t make as much sense. But maybe he did say that they would.

[half turtle]

Hey everyone, I just uploaded a video about iip 10. I'm leaving a link here so that the community can view and evaluate (Take it easy on me though; I'm new!!). I know, this is an evolving issue, so if there is any incorrect/inaccurate information, I would appreciate the heads-up! PLEASE LET ME KNOW, so I can update my video description! Thanks everyone
https://youtu.be/i-IGpsmqC-0

[serene marten]

do we know what land prices will roughly be?

[vivid cipher]

No. It’ll be up to the buyers. They will start too high and the price will drop over time.

Each land NFT will have its own Dutch auction

[serene marten]

yeah cool, i just watched the video. Was just wanting to gauge roughly what they will be. could be 100, could be 10k lol i have no idea

[vivid cipher]

So you want speculation… So tier 1 will be the cheapest I’d think it might start between $3k-$5k. Sell at more like $500-$2000. Don’t know. The super limited 7 tier 5s will probably be tens of millions. Tiers 2,3,4 will fall somewhere in the middle. It’s a crap shoot until we know more. Don’t worry more info will be released. The proposal to actually work on creating the minigame that the land sale is for was just passed.

[serene marten]

great thanks

[vivid cipher]

UNPIN: I’m replying here to mark the start of some discussion regarding the number of each tier of land to be offered in the land sale. Basically, it’s not yet known. I’d assume a lot of tier 1 and relatively few tier 4 and only 7 tier 5. But there are a lot of ways to distribute the numbers using a set geometric progression.

[clear badge]

Correct me but won't there be a single and unique way to do it if it's geometric prog?

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message I’m not really the math guy. I’m pretty much always struggling to catch what he’s laying down.

You could say there were 50k tier 1 and progress from there. Or you could say there are 90k tier 1 and progress from there. (Or pretty much anything in between) all that will matter is that it ends up with close to 100,000 total.

[clear badge]

Gotcha, my guess is that they can pretty much tweak T1 (initial value) and the constant ratio. How I understand it is:

Suppose K is the initial value, r is constant ratio

T1 plots = K

T2 plots = K * r

T3 plots = K * r^2

T4 plots = K * r^3

T5 plots = 7

Sum of all plots = 100,000 = K + K * r + K * r^2 + K * r^3 + 7

So I stand corrected, there is no one way to do it if there would be multiple combinations of K and r

[vivid cipher]

Yeah that looks right. My phone is useless for this stuff. (False… it’s my brain)

[vivid cipher]

It should be something that could be graphed though right? 2 variables… dependent on one another. When K=x then r=y…

[clear badge]

Let me graph that in a bit, just watching over the baby

[alpine cove]

I just saw a video where he is predicting 75 billion Marketcap for illuvium

I have 500 ilv

[vivid cipher]

But let’s put this in #💰〕token

[vivid cipher]

That’d be super cool. Thanks for being willing to do this heavy lifting. I’m weak. Need sleep too.

[wispy fulcrum]

Thanks a lot for this video. This is the info I wanted!

[vivid cipher]

That was solid. Quick and hitting key points. I don’t know how to better describe how each land nft will have its own separate Dutch auction. But the buy it now phrase is pretty clear.

[thin wolf]

What is too high?100k 1million?for tier5

[vivid cipher]

We’ll wait and see i guess. But I have heard the drop rate would be exponential. So it could go down pretty quickly from stupid high.

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[vivid cipher]

I can imagine tier 5 starting at 1 billion. (And dropping from there)

There’s already a meme

#796570107856945183 message

[clear badge]

We assume that the 7 T5 plots are not part of the geometric progression, because if they were, then there would be a single solution, ratio = 10.667:
T1 = 90626
T2 = 8496
T3 = 796
T4 = 75
T5 = 7

Here is the link to the plot speculation calculator - just type the Constant Ratio and the # of plots per Tier will populate
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mjxD-MjO4eSG8IKTRewCzWbv6cYt1BVwFV276HyJPHA/edit#gid=0

[thin wolf]

Yeah,looking at nft space,people are willing to part with their crypto and spend insanely alot of money on things that does not make sense(to me at least)

[vivid cipher]

This is super fun. Thanks for this. @bitter glade my new friend put some 🦾🧠 work in.

Too fun not to pin.

[vivid cipher]

Imma take a look and then fall asleep happy

[clear badge]

I think it's one of those rare moments I feel happy for geeking out. Loving this community so much. Though please tell if I made errors

[thin wolf]

Imagine 1 land of tier 5 went for 500million, the amount of meme power that would generate alone would be a worldwide reach and bring so much attention to Illuvium, and not to mention the sweet revdis and massive price action:-)

[vivid cipher]

The curve looks smooth and the numbers add up. Seems good. I like that you calculated to 5 steps ending at 7. shows how that don’t be the numbers.

[ivory bough]

500m? for now I find it unlikely. If in the future though, they person buying it would have to buy it with ETH which would mean massive Rev for us (if done on IlluviDEX ofc)

[bitter glade]

Yeah looks good. It just depends on the GR which determines the breakdown of the land. But yes this is exactly what we do (i cannot confirm in the numbers are the same, it depends on the GR obviously)

[sharp galleon]

I think there will be more Tier4s

[ebon totem]

@half turtle thanks for the quick recap video 🙂

[tacit cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/surprise-chris-pratt-parks-and-recreation-parks-and-rec-shocked-gif-5571450

[mellow palm]

im getting new imac or even that new ROG if i was selected for the beta 🤞 how excited am i to join this early ☺️

[crude bramble]

Hey guys. So basically, if you buy lands in illuvium zero, you get some bonuses during the main game? Are there any other benefits? Thanks

[ivory vine]

All info is within the two GDDs pinned in this channel and the proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[crude bramble]

Thanks

[torn seal]

😮 thanks mate.

tier 1 isnt able to produce fuel if i remember correctly. so tier 2 would be way more desirable i think?

[brisk gull]

T0 is not gonna produce fuel since they are f2p, T1 will be able to.

[torn seal]

appreciate the enlightenment 🙂

[slow cedar]

You're right though @torn seal, the initial doc had t1 not producing fuel. I think that changed though

[torn seal]

thats good. i imagine tier 2 upwards could get quite pricey 😄

[slow cedar]

I agree, that was my thought too!

[hoary monolith]

Can you buy land with staked ilv?

[gloomy phoenix]

You can buy it with sILV

[subtle laurel]

When is the land sale suppose to happen?

[brisk gull]

Around 10 weeks from now (+/- 2 weeks)

[copper jetty]

What does it mean by fuel erc20?

[ivory vine]

It means that Fuel would be an ERC-20 Token on the Ethereum Network which makes it tradeable for example 🙂

[copper jetty]

Ohh, another q, if for example i bought a T1 land. So i can produce resources there for making my own shards without paying anything?

[ivory vine]

The information about what land is supposed to do can be found in the two GDDs pinned in this channel. For more you need to wait. Since the proposal was approved, this mini-game will be developed and more details will surely be shared along the way 🙂

[copper jetty]

Ohhh thanks. I read already the pinned messages. I'm wondering what will be the purpose of T0 lands cause its free to play so you dont need to buy resources from lands? Sorry if im getting confused or mixing it up :(

[ivory vine]

If T0 lands will be developed, then they are purely for gaming and won't create anything with value to be traded.

[copper jetty]

Thanks, got it

[lucid karma]

anyone making a DAO pool to purchase T5 land?

[severe karma]

I'm going to try to make one, send me a friend request if you're interested in joining

[smoky vigil]

So Land from what I can tell will be one of the best ways to generate sILV overtime?

I would personally rather hold ILV as a store value and hold it over time. Purchase land to generate more sILV for in game use

[tribal badger]

Land does not generate sILV, only fuel

[ivory vine]

Nope. You won't generate any sILV at all via land. You can only use sILV to buy land in the first place 🙂

!silv

[dry forge]

sILV is a substitute currency that can be gained as yield when staking ILV. In game, it can be used to pay for any fee (excluding IlluviDEX trades and Leviathan Arena wagers) that otherwise would be paid for with the main currency ETH.

While claimed staking rewards in the form of ILV are locked for 12 months, sILV offers the opportunity to liquidate your staking rewards immediately. The tradeoff for that is that sILV only can be used in-game and does not provide compounding in any form.

[smoky vigil]

I mean because of the things Land generates resources such as fuel then it could generate sILV no? Cause land provides in-game resources?

[misty orbit]

This is an interesting talk, but will this be good or bad for the game in the long-term?

Im not sure and not familiar with land to have a solid analysis myself, anyone have any good inputs?

[ivory vine]

Still nope. A) read the message above yours explaining what sILV is and does. B) read the GDDs pinned in this channel explaining what the mini-game and it's tokenomics are supposed to be about 🙂

[noble surge]

@misty orbit I agree on your analysis. So we are getting 2 sales?

[misty orbit]

from #💰〕token ? yeah. Just then however i was replying to sheep in particular when he was talking about how it is good if whales own all the land due to revdis. I was just asking if that would be healthy in the long term and if there would be any potential drawbacks due to that

[noble surge]

I see. It's the first time in history that even if 1 whale owns everything we still profit from it. If it's good for the actual game for them monopolizing in game assets... Then Idk. Might be bad?

[smoky vigil]

Ahh so Land generates an entirely different set of resources to essentially acquire benefits in game. At least this is what I gathered as fuel can be used to build in game things for Illuvium.

Fuel is like another source of ingame currency which can be used for benefits?

[grizzled helm]

ya I see fuel as another token, there will be a market for it (from my understanding)

[misty orbit]

@wind briar yup i was throwing numbers outta my ass tbh and acknowledged i dont know too much about the land.

[smoky vigil]

That is actually perfect as it helps with my sILV obssesed brain. I feel terrible not learning about illuvium earlier lol. Since land can help me have sort of ingame benefits is what I was looking for overall

[noble surge]

The minigame documents are so long, I won't ever have time to read everything damn

[smoky vigil]

The mechanism by which a land holder would earn revenue is simple.
They claim Fuel through their interactions in Illuvium: Zero and then swap it for ETH.
The effect this would have is that Fuel would become cheaper for players in Illuvium. (On the other side of the Shared Pool, players purchasing Fuel will increase its price, and this is a delicate balance is addressed later in the proposal.

[misty orbit]

Lol this would be anyone who didnt buy in june when ILV was fucking 30 bucks

[smoky vigil]

omg please dont remind me of this xD

There should be a !land command if there isn't one already imo

[grizzled helm]

Soon

[misty orbit]

@potent dock what were your thoughts on land

[potent dock]

That I can't afford it.

[tacit cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/sleep-fall-asleep-baby-girl-sleepy-gif-15140161

[cinder fractal]

Of course whales fighting over land is going to be great for anyone who is holding ILV, but I would like to see 10% of lend reserved only for sILV it wouldn't make a big difference in total revenue but it will show respect towards early investors

[potent dock]

A bunch of whitelisting options were discussed, but I don't think this one serves any additional purpose. There have been whales involved with ILV for ages - limiting purchases to sILV only for 10% of land would just mean that a whale might be able to get discount land for sILV because they've been staked for long enough to outbid other whales who don't have access to as much sILV, but could potentially pay more in ETH.

It's a somewhat interesting idea in terms of incentivizing sILV claims, but I think we'll see plenty of those anyways.

[mint palm]

Guys what do u mean by fuel?

[cinder fractal]

I see the same outcome but at least it's going to benefit early investors, whales are also humans like us :)

[ivory vine]

You should read the two GDDs provided in the pinned messages in here to understand what the mini-game and fuel is about 🙂

[cinder fractal]

And when you are done with gdds watch every recent interview on YouTube with Kieran to connect everything together :)

[mint palm]

Thanks boys! Yes i’ve watched one it was so helpful. Theres so much to learn. Research continues

[proper matrix]

Any solid prices for these land yet?

[shrewd dome]

Nope, just speculation

[vivid cipher]

There won't be solid prices... it'll be individual dutch auctions for each land NFT

[compact mural]

I mean, dutch auction means there is a solid max price, right?

[vivid cipher]

yeah but its gonna start exponentially high

and it will drop in an exponential curve as well

[compact mural]

But that means a solid price, like the land will be priced when launched.

[vivid cipher]

yeah... priced to drop... did you see the BLBP? it'll be even different than that since there will be no upward pressure... but yeah there will be a price eventually shared

[patent swift]

Will you only be able to buy land with sILV or also with ETH?

[shrewd dome]

Yes

[opal thistle]

Guys sorry I'm late to de discussion, I know no one knows yet the price of land and it is a dutch auction but what is the general feeling of a T1-T2 land could go for? I came into some extra funds and was looking into ether buy more ILV or land

[sick cape]

I think everyone wants to know it

[opal thistle]

I've just been reading further up, got the general gist of ot thks!!

[knotty shard]

If you're considering buying more ILV would it not be beneficial to stake it then use the sILV for land once the sale drop?

[lone gull]

where will land even be sold?

[empty lake]

so land is not decentralized? this is more of who has the more money to give wins!

[cosmic aspen]

which is the best scenario for the DAO as a whole

[empty lake]

best scenario how? enlighten me please!

[cosmic aspen]

because the more money the land sale makes, the more money that gets distributed to all the token stakers

!revdis

[dry forge]

The tokenomics of this DAO include a 100% revenue distribution (could be subject to change - DAO governance). This means that any kind of revenue generated through sales or in-game revenue is distributed back to holders of staked ILV. The same max supply of 10 Million ILV will be used for this purpose regardless of how many games the DAO develops.

Revenue distribution is paid out in the form of unlocked ILV and the payout is done multiple times a week without a fixed schedule. Before paying out revenue distribution, the vault converts ETH spent in-game into ILV by buying it off the market which puts buying pressure on the ILV token and thus supports its price development.

[empty lake]

okay I see now! hope they price it at 100M$ per land

Time to milk those whales!

[sick cape]

Will there be a closed beta for iluvium zero (mini game), like there is one for iluvium (game)?

[cosmic aspen]

perhaps, nothing announced however

[opal thistle]

But if land sale comes in 10 weeks I don't think I can earn enough sILV for the amount I staked or I'm I wrong? If I stake right now 5K in ILV at 52 weeks that is the highest rate I don't see how I can have that amount worth sILV of in 10 weeks unless the price of ILV explodes

[dim storm]

is it confirmed that land will be bough with sILV?

[opal thistle]

I think I read multiple times that I can be bought both with ETH and sILV

[dim storm]

ah ok

[rancid charm]

how much are we talking? I know other games land can go pretty high LOL

[nova plaza]

Land can be bought with either ETH or sILV, what's unsure is if you can buy with a combination of both. I think that's unlikely for technical reasons.

There's a few tiers of land, I really doubt T5 is going to end up in the hands of an individual; makes a lot more sense for an organization or brand to own those to maximize their revenue potential (streaming, tournaments, partnerships).

I think most of us can look forward to grabbing a T1 or T2 if we have some sILV or ETH socked away

[opal thistle]

Yeah but I was thinking of a T1 how things are going I see a T2 far away from my grasp

[nova plaza]

If I was just to guess, I could see T1 range somewhere between 3-10 ETH. Lotta people hoping for 1 ETH but I don't think it'll go that low with the reverse auction.

Reverse Auction ensures the market decides the price from the very start. So we're all going to be a part of setting the initial prices.

[opal thistle]

Yeah that's the feel I get I got around 5k to buy land, so I was hoping a T1 could be in my range

Have to wait and see, if I can't even buy T1 with 5k then I'm waaay poorer than I thought

[rain breach]

I'm getting 2.5 ILV per day. That's like 175 ILV for 10 weeks, which is almost $90k at current prices. Hope I can get some land.

[frozen barn]

Damn thats crazy how much did ILV did you stake?

[rain breach]

I'm saving some rewards to claim as sILV

[nova plaza]

Do factor in the reduction in staking rewards every 2 weeks, but yeah, you should be set lol.

[rain breach]

30 ILV that I've bought at $90 and $160

[opal thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/hatsoff-congratulations-good-job-gif-11787420

[rain breach]

For $4000 USDC. And I'm also staking 18 ETH with different locks

[nova plaza]

Hats off to everyone claiming as sILV really. Anyone holding ILV wins the more gets converted to sILV.

[dim storm]

shhh dont tel them

[rain breach]

ILV is my second biggest investment in cryptos since I've found Ethereum in 2017. I'm also running an Eth2 PoS validator

[modern quartz]

That is the first use case for sILV. It's up to you whether you want your staked ILV to compound and earn additional ILV, or if you want to "cash it out" for sILV which can only be used in the game. FWIW, I think that many people will take the sILV and participate in the land sale.

[opal thistle]

Well sir invite me for a picnic on your T5 land when u get it 🤯

[rain breach]

I'm staking since early July. Already got like 68 ILV. Plus the 30 I've bought.

[rain breach]

😆 That's out of my league... I don't have millions... 😭

[sage tree]

I will definitely be buying land for sure and I will be using SILV to burn ILV for all of us

[modern quartz]

At this point I'd rather compound ILV than convert to sILV. They're talking about having several different land sales 0- not just a single dump. If that's true I might just sit out the first one b/c there's going to be so much hype around it that people are going to overpay during the dutch auction. By sitting out the first land sale you miss out on getting in first, but you can gauge what the price/interest will be. Then again, you may miss out while the prices continue to go up. Risk...reward.

[little moon]

It might be a good idea to sell some lands for ETH only and some lands for sILV only that way there is a good balance between attracting whales for big purchases but those who staked early can claim sILV and get some discounted lands.

[knotty shard]

Just a thought mate, completely up to you in the end, I'm just hoping the price of ILV does go up in 10 weeks to give me more sILV worth otherise I wont be able to get land cause I'm all in anyway haha

[opal thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/marvel-wakanda-forever-black-panther-gif-13741574

[kindred stratus]

Is this the latest and most updated doc to do with Illuvium Zero?

[knotty shard]

I'm keen to help out this wonderful community doing my bit if its worth it in 10 weeks to get a piece of that land haha

[sage tree]

All good points that I thought of and you're right on those fronts.

[opal thistle]

I think they already discussed this on the whitelisting discussion and I think it's just gonna be all open for all

[bitter glade]

Not even close.

[little moon]

Well using sILV would be kind of a soft whitelist since only stakers would have it unless a market pops up for it before the land sale

[bitter glade]

Yep, that is the point. We think this will be best.

[little moon]

My thought was that it would be cool to sell like 90% of the lands for ETH and maybe 10% for sILV. This allows a lot of funds to come into the ecosystem via ETH but means that those in the community have a good chance to buy the lands sold for sILV

[bitter glade]

I don't see there being much point in hard coding a limit into the sILV / ETH ratio. Remember that sILV is linked 1:1 with ILV. If people pay in sILV it reduces the supply by that amount. Which means in game people either need to claim more sILV and reduce supply further, or pay in ETH.

[opal thistle]

But you are already allowed to use your sILV for this purchase, that in it's right is already a benefit for having staked early

[merry elm]

is it actually possible to get enough sILV till land sale?

[opal thistle]

Excelent question, I was asking that!!! I said I had 5k to buy land and got suggested to stake it and buy land with sILV, I have not done the math but I don't know if I could have enough in 10 weeks of staking (depends of course on the ILV prices at the time of the auction)

[compact mural]

Nobody even knows how much the land is going to cost, so it's impossible to know.

[little moon]

Staked on the LP i think you could probably manage but im too scared of impermanent loss

[bitter glade]

Can I ask why?

[opal thistle]

You are correct sir, that's why we entered in the speculation realm.

[little moon]

In large part I dont understand it. Ive never really done defi before. Im also expecting huge volitility through february then the end of the bull cycle. So liquidity is a priority for me right now

[full dune]

The higher APY% when staked on the LP will gain you more ILV which will in turn outweigh your IL

[little moon]

I might try it out with my next purchase. Im hoping i can get some more cash together before the price jumps up again.

But then im conflicted and want to try and save some liquidity for the land sale too in case it ends up being cheaper than expected

[kindred stratus]

Oh dear. How can I catch up?

[bitter glade]

IL is not an issue of liquidity. Locking is an issue of liquidity.

You can stake without locking, you just don't get the same APY since your weight will be lower (this is an Illuvium thing, not a general staking thing).

In a nutshell impermanent loss is the issue that when you stake in an LP pool the price of the two tokens in the pool can drift apart due to one outperforming the other. If you unstake when they are at different ratios to what you started, you could have less than if you had just kept the tokens.

But remember, BOTH tokens could have gone up in this time (one more than the other) so it's not like you are missing out on gains. You still get the ups and the downs. It's just that you might not get quite as much of a gain.

But the yield acts as an offset of that, at the moment being vastly higher than the IL. That could change of course.

Does that make sense?

[vivid cipher]

Read the pins. But otherwise see what Aaron has to share. He won’t share everything

[bitter glade]

Unfortunately you can't. We will give updates over time. But we won't be constantly updating the GDD and making it available. There is sensitive info in there from the main game, and it's super time consuming to go through every page of the doc and check it.

[kindred stratus]

Will do, I'll try read up the discussion here too.

[merry elm]

is yield effected by performance of both tokens? Why is there such huge difference?

[opal thistle]

I was just reading all I could on LP because I'm also a newbie but you are correct, I think I'm understanding this better

[bitter glade]

No. Yield is a function of block number and volume of tokens in the pool.

[opal thistle]

Makes perfect sense, specially if you believe in the token that you are getting as a reward. I'm gonna head out to the #💰〕token part to clear a few doubts but this has help me a lot.

[merry elm]

So more tokens less yield?

[bitter glade]

Be careful saying this. There is no guarantee that APY of the LP pool will outweigh IL. You can say it currently is, and that it is likely to stay this way for a while, but there's no hard coded guarantee.

[bitter glade]

Fewer yield tokens per token.

[bitter glade]

It's actually irrelevant. The only thing that matters is this:

1. Do you think ILV and ETH will be valued at different ratios in the future?
2. What is the APY in the LP pool.

Those are the considerations.

[little moon]

Vault tokens are distributed directly to stakers or is it directed into the staking pool?

[little moon]

Thanks for the detailed explanation 🙂 Ill be adding liquidity when i can get the money together.

[bitter glade]

Just as long as you understand that I'm giving general understanding of IL. I am not giving advice on what tokens to stake or anything like that. For that you must do your own research.

[little moon]

Haha of course. This still seems like a safer investment than getting another futures acct liquidated.

[merry elm]

it takes to big brain to even try to predict which will have better yield after 1 year 😄

[proper matrix]

Reckon I can send land address to address ? So if I wanna transfer it to another wallet

[vivid cipher]

It’ll be an nft so yes. But once things started getting built on it in game I think there’s still discussion regarding what will happen with the in game assets like the buildings and extractors and such.

[proper matrix]

The dream is it to have the ability to transfer to another wallet

[vivid cipher]

The problem mentioned was that the in game assets could get liquidated after a price was agrees upon for a sale of the land. So some sort of solution would need to be found to prevent a bait and switch.

[proper matrix]

Maybe price fixes like fifa 20. Making sure it doesn’t go too low. But having no limit for purchase

[kindred drift]

Yo guys, popping in rudely here but is it confirmed that the land sales will be auction-based?

[vivid cipher]

Individual Dutch auctions for each land nft. Yes

[kindred drift]

Thanks. And I read somewhere that only sILV can be used. Correct?

[knotty shard]

No, ETH or sILV unsure if you can use a mixture of both atm

[kindred drift]

Awesome. Thanks for the clarification

[subtle laurel]

Has there been any talk about maybe using the BNB smart chain vs the eth chain? seen other games making good use of it verses Immutable which is still not working well for gods uncahined?

[grizzled helm]

no the team has no intention on moving ATM

[hollow igloo]

@cosmic aspen can i ask you smt

[subtle laurel]

Well being native to the platform should be helpful 🙂 , i know they tried to change platforms becuase gas fees where to high 🙂 , so that might be most of their problems lol

Wish i would have known about this earlier Token price seems to high for me at this points but looking a land sales and def going to be a player from day 1 🙂 ;

[vivid cipher]

!mc

[dry forge]

Market cap is the total value of a project, calculated by multiplying token price and circulating supply. It is one of the best metrics for judging the value of a project, because token price alone does not take the existing amount of tokens into consideration. Great projects with a lesser amount of tokens often have a higher token price because of the token scarcity.

Always remember that market cap is a dynamic metric that changes every time the token price or the circulating supply of the token changes.

[hollow igloo]

@cosmic aspen this the discord mods?

[cosmic aspen]

totes bro

[hollow igloo]

gotta tell me what that mean

[grizzled helm]

Discord Mod energy

[hollow igloo]

you a mod too 🧍‍♂️

[grizzled helm]

lets leave this out of minigame 🙂

[hollow igloo]

bro you snorlax

[grizzled helm]

https://tenor.com/view/rude-why-are-you-blaming-me-why-me-huh-youre-so-mean-gif-16809017

[hollow igloo]

᲼᲼᲼᲼᲼

[edgy lantern]

What is illuvium zero

[grizzled helm]

Read pinned GDD

[limpid pendant]

Not sure if this question is better placed here (instead of general) given Fuel token. With the introduction of the Fuel token, I couldn't find anywhere in the documentation about how the purchase of Fuel with ETH/sILV makes its way back to ILV stakers as revenue distribution? Any pointers?

[opal thistle]

I'm totally at a loss now then, how can the value of the token that I'm receiving as reward for supplying liquidity be irrelevant? Of course I look at the APY, I thought now that I only take IL at the time I cash my SLP out (if there is a loss), but if I leave it in there I just keep getting ILV right? So if the price of ILV does not sink to the ground in the years to come I'm making a lot with an APY as high as 630%

[vivid cipher]

yeah I don't think it does. sILV is still gonna be burned when used in game and was and will never make its way back to stakers. ETH on the other hand would have, but in the land NFT based fuel production model for the Illuvium: Zero minigame the ETH from the fuel sales would be going to the land owners that are producing the fuel. Actually they'd only be getting less 10% of the ETH of those fuel swaps. The VAULT would be the ones actually receiving the ETH for the other 90% of the Fuel swaps. So if the VAULT gets ETH then it has the chance to buy and distribute ILV. Not sure how much of that is in the GDD but I'll take a look and double check my numbers here. However its gonna work its gonna end up giving a part of the revenue from FUEL sales to Land-nft-owning-fuel-producers.

yup it's in this document... #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

The mechanism by which a land holder would earn revenue is simple. They claim Fuel through their interactions in Illuvium: Zero and then swap it for ETH. The effect this would have is that Fuel would become cheaper for players in Illuvium. (On the other side of the Shared Pool, players purchasing Fuel will increase its price, and this is a delicate balance is addressed later in the proposal.)
Percentage Fee for Land Holders
The upshot of this revenue distribution method is obvious. The fee that land holders can obtain from these swaps should not be 100%, or it diverts much of the revenue from ILV token holders to Land NFT token holders. Further, it is almost certainly the case that the fee they should be able to obtain from swaps should be far lower than 50%, probably something closer to 10%, although this should be a configurable variable that can be adjusted through an approved ICCP.
We will define this fee as X%, with the player taking 1-X%.

[limpid pendant]

ty, sir. This is useful! However, it seems to just focus on the Illuvium Zero mini-game monetary policy of Fuel. Before I go on, Fuel is now the main in-game currency for product purchases (i.e. shards, travel etc.)?

[vivid cipher]

Yeah the Fuel produced in the minigame is going to be part of the maingame economic system. It's the start of the Illuvium metaverse. In fact, the fuel produced in the minigame could end up being used in ALL future Illuvium games. It's potentially the hub of the metaverse.

[limpid pendant]

sorry to be a drainer (i don't mean to be). I'm still getting lost on how a player uses ETH to then go buy Fuel to pay for in-game products (shards, travel) and then how that Fuel then makes it's way back to ILV stakers as revenue distributions. On face value it appears a lot more complexity is being added with this FUel monetary policy then was origiinally laid out in the main game (flow chart below I created)

[vivid cipher]

You aren't wrong. There is more complexity. But most RPGs have a variety of in game currencies used to pay for different types of transactions in game. For me the Lore is important to immersive RPGs. And the fuel system will make that happen. I'm not too worried about it. Aaron is on it. His gigabrain will make it work beautifully.

[limpid pendant]

Appreciate your response and honesty, sir. What do you mean by Lore?

[vivid cipher]

its the story of the game. like how would ETH actually pay to do anything on a world called Illuvium? it's gotta be something that is actually used in that world.

[potent dock]

You're confusing the SLP with revenue distributions, and I don't think we'll use Uniswap either.

Vault buys ILV with ETH from purchases, and distributes ILV to stakers.

The SLP adjusting to the ILV/ETH buy doesn't really have a TON of impact on the functionality of revenue distribution as a system, it's more tied to liquidity than it is to revdis, unless we do something crazy like buy 40M USD of ILV with revdis at once (i.e. Land Sale).

In a hypothetical scenario, Fuel is used to fly to some T5 island in the main game, as a required resource to run a jetpack or something.

A player buys it (either from a land owner, or from the "system"), and that ETH (or a portion of that ETH, if purchased from a land owner), goes to the vault, and normal revdis proceeds.

[limpid pendant]

So you're referring just the name of an in-game currency being relatable to the world (i.e. like Fuel is to Illuvium)?

[vivid cipher]

Yeah I guess so. FUEL is not going to be what its called either. FUEL is just a place holder for the GDDtokenomics and discussions like this one.

This is a chart in the tokenomics GDD for Illuvium Zero. Yeah its a bit complex but it will work just fine

[limpid pendant]

Thanks for the response, sir. Do you mind just demonstrating the flow of capital through the system for say a shard purchase?

I saw it initially as the below (not sure how it works with the Fuel interaction now):

Player uses ETH to purchase shard -> ETH goes to ILV/ETH (sushi pool) -> ETH in/ILV out -> ILV goes to stakers as 'revenue distribution'

Ignore anything to do with Illuvium: Zero for now, it creates to much complexity for my small brain hehe

[vivid cipher]

I think there will be three fuels actually. Each with a different in game utility. Crypton, Hyperino, Solons. It's all in the SPOILER GDD aaron posted and is pinned in here.

[limpid pendant]

Yeah I saw that, it's more concept rather than tokeneconomics and imho is layering the complexity further 😬

[vivid cipher]

So even shards won't just be purchased... they will be mined in game (or purchased from another player that mined it) and then you pay to cure it (prepare it for use) Or you buy a cured one from another player.

[limpid pendant]

Yep I understand it from a concept perspective

[vivid cipher]

But your question is how to pay to cure a shard basically... I'd think a player swaps ETH for the appropriate FUEL and uses that FUEL to cure their shard. The VAULT taxes a significant portion of all FUEL produced by LAND owners (and the VAULT can literally mint FUEL to balance the game economy if things get out of hand.) And the vault swaps FUEL for ETH. They use that ETH to swap for ILV. That ILV gets distributed.

[limpid pendant]

Gotcha, this is more what I'm after. So does that mean that not 100% of a purchase goes to the vault to purchase ILV, just the tax % on Fuel?

[vivid cipher]

Basically it means players need to turn their ETH or sILV into an actual in game tokens. Only one more step for players. The back end will be mostly automated anyways I'd think.

[potent dock]

Player uses ETH to purchase shard -> ETH goes to vault -> Vault purchases ILV for ETH at a random time -> ILV is distributed among staked tokens

[vivid cipher]

yeah I guess so. But it's a pool so what would happen is the LAND owner produces FUEL and then swaps it for ETH. They may produce 100 fuel but they will actually only own 10 fuel. They only get 10 Fuel worth of ETH back from their swap. The DAO Vault would take the rest

[potent dock]

ETH does not go to the ILV/ETH SLP in normal revenue distribution, that pool is a liquidity pool and is not a core part of revenue distribution.

That pool might provide liquidity for the ILV purchase, but ETH is not going into that pool from purchases. That would imbalance the pool needlessly. The SLP is a seperate system for maintaining liquidity.

[limpid pendant]

Yep, that's how I understand it. 2 Q's:

1. How frequently is this action performed (i.e. once each purchase is done, aggregated end of day and a lump sum purchased end of day etc.); and
2. Where does Fuel fit into this?

[limpid pendant]

So where is ETH purchasing ILV from to then distribute to Stakers?

[potent dock]

1. This was addressed early in the first contract audit. Having predictable times on vault purchases exposes the vault to risk of attacks - a malacious actor with enough capital could jack the price of ILV up before a purchase (or something comparable). As such, vault purchases are intentionally to be done at random times, presumably a few times a day.
2. Fuel is like any other asset you might buy. Buy fuel with ETH, ETH goes to vault, etc. etc.

[vivid cipher]

I think you guys mean the same thing... just using different words. If ETH is used to SWAP for ILV in the ETH/ILV LP then its sent there technically, but usually its called a swap because its not just added to the pool.

[limpid pendant]

1. Nice - Makes sense;
2. Fuel feels redundant in the main game?

[potent dock]

It doesn't REALLY matter, but likely to start it will purchase ILV from Sushiswap. However, this does NOT mean the ETH goes to the SLP directly from a purchase. ETH goes to the vault, ILV is purchased from Sushiswap (which USES the LP for liquidity).

[potent dock]

2. Fuel (or whatever it ends up being named) is just a commodity that can be used, but it's one that can be generated by owning land and thus sold.

Think of it as any other commodity you might use in the game, except players can generate it by owning land. So like, I can go farm a shard in the main game, and sell it. It's no different, except fuel is produced by land.

[limpid pendant]

Yeah gotcha, so the vault sits in the middle but the SLP is still used as the method to swap ILV/ETH. Ideally I'm just try to bed down that the more ETH raised from in-game purchases will result in flowing more ETH (and removing more ILV to go to stakers) from the SLP, thus this token accrual method creating possible significant buy pressure on ILV price

[vivid cipher]

FUEL will also allow the game economy to be priced accurately instead of needing to convert prices into USD based on sILV or ETH prices

[limpid pendant]

Yep, I understand it from Illuvium Zero's perspective and it makes sense as that 'currency generation' component. Your example as a commodity is a good one

[potent dock]

Yeah that's correct, I just wanted to be clear on the order. ETH goes to the vault, which then purchases ILV, and distributes that ILV to stakers.

At no point does ETH go directly from purchases to the SLP. You're 100% right about buy pressure on ILV price, and the vault does USE the SLP (if it's buying off Sushiswap, which isn't actually a necessary step - if we're listed on some CEX or other DEX with sufficient liquidity, ideally the vault finds the best solution to spend all the ETH for the optimal amount of ILV)

[limpid pendant]

Yeah perfect, mate. Thanks for clearing up the vault step and confirming the SLP interaction.

[vivid cipher]

I get that using an in game currency adds a layer of complexity but I can't think of any game that doesn't use its own in game currency. I know we all talked for so long about ETH being the in game currency, but really I always assumed it would be more of an onramp.

[limpid pendant]

TBH this is one of the (many) reasons I liked Illuvium over Axie, because it was simple from an in-game currency perspective

[vivid cipher]

Oh yeah that might be nice. The Vault serving as the mega arbitrager. haha. Not likely though. Committed to DEFI

[limpid pendant]

I can see a higher learning curve now for players trying to understand ETH and now Fuel. Plus there is added governance and monetary policy management with FUel in addition to opening up a vector of potential error for things to go wrong in the monetary policy, again compared to just simply using ETH for everything

[amber atlas]

I don't think its too complex from a gameplay point of view, it is just another item in the crafting recipe:```Instead of:
4 Bauxite + 2 Pallavium + 1 Fire Stone + ETH = Flame Glove

You Have:
4 Bauxite + 2 Pallavium + 1 Fire Stone + 5 Solons = Flame Glove

(but for sure there is some additional complexity in the game economy/tokenomics)

[potent dock]

WTT Pallavium for Solons - WTS Flame Glove 4.2 ETH DM me (joking)

[fierce glen]

Follow up question to this, will a recipe be needed as well to create the item or is it Minecraft creation style where items can be mixed together and discovery is made from trying and sharing results.

[copper glen]

This just reminds me of the Diablo crafting days! 😍 This game is going to be so sick!

Do you think ILV:zero will have random elements to the game just like the main game? In the sense that you can get 'lucky' and scan a super rare illuvial etc? @amber atlas

[amber atlas]

the current thinking (to be worked through) is that a blueprint is required, there is a library of Blueprints that are shared, some (T0) are free some have a cost

this is how the blueprints you create in Illuvium Zero come in to play, if you discover them first you get rev share from the 'usage cost'

I need to sit down with Aaron and flesh this out though

[fierce glen]

A lot of fun options here ☺️, thanks!

[amber atlas]

Random elements: Yes, not in v1, but yes in the release aligned with the main game (v2.0 in the IIP)

[fierce glen]

Will blueprints solely come from zero or be discovered in main game

[amber atlas]

there will be a preloaded library of 'already discovered' Blueprints (from launch, so you can build stuff day 1)

but we haven't talked about BP discovery in the main game at this point

[fierce glen]

Ok awesome 😎, the depth to this is cool, world first recipe could be life changing. Especially on a high sought item for battle

[amber atlas]

for sure, it is super exciting for me too, but it is just in the 'idea' stage at the moment, need to write it down, get Aaron to review, and then make sure community is onboard

[fierce glen]

If you're familiar with WoW, imagine being the person to discover the blueprint to Blessed Blade of the Windseeker 😅

[fierce glen]

Yeah totally understand. I think the idea can be solid!

Looking forward to the results of it! Thanks for sharing

[slow cedar]

Will inventions be a secret recipe which exists and first in game to find it gets it? Or some other method?

[amber atlas]

that's the plan (at a very high level)

[slow cedar]

Have you looked into r-planet at all on wax?

[amber atlas]

I've looked but not used

[slow cedar]

They had a similar system for inventions and people were spending thousands of $ trying to get them. Every now and then a random account pops up and gets an obscure invention first try, potentially netting the account over $10k

It left a really sour taste in a lot of users mouths. Something to be very aware of if you plan to go down this route.

[amber atlas]

I think there are some pinned comments from me on the idea, I had quite a long conversation on the idea of balance for this aspect

they don't quite capture all of the conversation, but the idea was for the randomness to be more like a grindy MMO than like a lottery

basically if you do the thing for long enough your expected value levels out

if there is a random factor you can't help but have some people get things 'earlier' than they should on average

but don't forget to get these things you must have land, and you must have built all of the required structures to support advanced research (to get an advanced item)

[slow cedar]

That sounds far better to be honest. The invention method in r-planet was a bit too 'all or nothing'

[limpid pendant]

@amber atlas Will you be one of the core developers on Illuvium Zero?

[slow cedar]

I do like the idea that at the start different land owners set off down different paths, so as you said in one comment I might be 'lashmar, the blueprint guy' and if its where I specialised then I'm ahead of the curve compared to other land owners

[amber atlas]

I might do a little bit here and there, particularly for the POC, but I mostly look after the people and make sure they are set up to build without blockers

[fiery chasm]

Do we need ILV to capture an Illuvial?

[slow cedar]

I'm just keen that there are enough paths that specialising feels like it'll be worth it, and the paths are announced enough in advance people can plan etc

[slow cedar]

This is for the mini game. That question is main game, but no you don't. You can play for free with no ILV ever

[amber atlas]

in any case I really need to bounce, work to do, nice chatting!!

[fiery chasm]

Nice! Thanks @slow cedar I can't wait to play!

[limpid pendant]

Good to know, sir. This may be a redundant question but how realistic do you think that the development of IZ will not pull resources away from those building the main title? My preference would be to hold off on IZ development until public beta is released and successful before running two titles in parallel and potentially biting off more than we can chew.

[fiery chasm]

I'll stake 1 ILV when I sell a few Dusk Axies

This is the most gorgeous game of all time

[amber atlas]

I'll answer this one before I head off... we've hired a new team of devs specifically for this, and are looking at getting new artists

other than a bit of time from me, and a bit of time from Aaron, there should be very minimal impact

[limpid pendant]

Appreciate the response! cheers

[fiery chasm]

Can I stake 10 Axies for ILV?

[slow cedar]

IZ is being created in unity as it has better phone integration. The main game is being made in unreal engine, so the devs will be using different engines and languages

[small star]

Sorry if my question as already been answered, but i'm going through the document and feel it do not really explain the goal of the game as F2P. I mean for everyone buying a land (And I hope I'll be able to get a T2 or T1), there is a clear production of resources that can be either exchanges for ETH or for in-game advantages, and it make sense. But for all owner of Tiers 0 lands (=F2P), what will be the goal of the game ? You build buildings, produce resources, and loop on this idea, but nothing usable in Illuvium.

Would adding a generator of NFTs for all land help keeping the people playing ? Even if those NFTs are not rare and have almost no value, they can at least create interest for everyone to play it and build a collection of IZ NFTs that are linked to "success" in the main game for example.

I don't know, i feel something is missing to attract and retain the people playing it. Or maybe I'm wrong questioning this aspect ?

[knotty shard]

I would assume this question has been answered a few times potentially check the pinned comments and check out the IZ PDF in there it may have your answers, my understanding the goal is IZ and main game are connected anyway, is that what you're asking?

[small star]

Did read the documents a few times.

[bitter glade]

Unreal is fine for mobile integration. The reason why IZ goes straight to mobile is because it's a 2d isometric city builder, not a state of the art PC game.

[slow cedar]

Gotcha. I'm curious why unity though? I'd assumed it was to do with mobile integration

[bitter glade]

Why would we allow those that pay nothing to generate sellable things in Illuvium? All that will do is make the value of those things go to $0 in about 3 seconds.

The city builder genre has about a billion different games out there, and currently none of them allow you to earn real world money. So it's not that the Tier 0 of Illuvium Zero has no purpose, it's just that it is like a normal city builder. It will still be a fun time killer for those that don't have land. It will allow you to build out industry and min max things just like any other game in the genre.

[bitter glade]

Rapid prototyping

[slow cedar]

Ah OK. Makes sense. I was trying to explain to others why the devs would be different and therefore it wouldn't impact on the main game dev

[small star]

That's in my messages actually. I don't think T0 lands should bring anything of value to the game. But there is maybe some systems of rewards, rankings, titles, free-0-value-collectibles NFT, or something to give a purpose to people playing. Everything do not need to have a value in $ to be attractive and motivate free-2-play players. In the end the objective is to bring them to the main game. But as I said, it's also understandable to not have any focus on the F2P and give most of the interest of IZ to paying players.

[knotty shard]

Theres still so much in P2E for FTP!!

[bitter glade]

We could have used Unreal but we used devs that are good with Unity. Also Johnny who is our tech director is also expert in Unity so it made sense. There's lots of little reasons but nothing super important.

[small star]

In Illuvium, yes !

[knotty shard]

I'm so excited to get my friends into it with the unknown of a potential not yet seen

[bitter glade]

One of the main focuses is to build out your Nexus, which is the start of your city. This happens in either version of the game. VN was prototyping it a couple weeks back.

[small star]

👍

As you said Aaron, the full document have much more into it, and certainly answer a lot of my questioning. Maybe I'm too curious to see how things goes with IZ 😋 I feel it'll be a great time for all land-owners. I am just unsure it'll bring in a lot of F2P players, I am certainly wrong, and maybe it's because I have this partial view.

[slow cedar]

That makes total sense if it's based on team skills. Thanks for the clarification

[dusk pulsar]

Will all the land drops use the same auction system? And is the starting price the same for each wave?

[slow cedar]

Not sure on either answer yet - all should use Dutch auction but the drop off speed may be different

[bitter glade]

The starting price will be determined by tier. So it will be the same for each tier in that tranche. We might have to adjust it as well sell land later.

[dusk pulsar]

So the auction starts at a high price and goes down, till some1 buys it. Will the price reset back to starting price to sell the next land. So IT Will be sold 1 by 1

[bitter glade]

Keep in mind this is a mini game. We aren't building sim city here. You're just a single drone doing the best he can in a lonely planet. It's enough to make anyone go crazy.

It could be that the mini game becomes more than a mini game later on, but I don't want anyone to expect Illuvium Zero to win GOTY.

[slow cedar]

Because it's coming in second place behind the main game is the only reason I can think of for it not to be

[small star]

Make total sense !

[sharp galleon]

however Illuvium though ...

[rain elm]

Does anyone know how lands will be traded after the initial sale? Are they NFTs which can be sold on OS?

[high sleet]

Well ultimately it's about building out a proper metaverse

Gotta start somewhere

[weary spindle]

Guys how many lands will be on sale? Do you predict a price? I predict around 1 ETH a piece of land. Any opinions?

[glacial nacelle]

hi what is this land thing everybodys talking abt and this land sale

[brisk gull]

First sale will be of 20k lands. I think price will go from 1k to more than 1m.

[viscid bolt]

Will the lands purchased in Illuvium-zero be integrated into the full Illuvium game?

[weary spindle]

Thank you very much. I will target most probably a Tier 1 land.

[sand oar]

@viscid bolt tier 5 should correspond the 7 regions in the main game... no info for the other lands to the best of my knowledge

[brisk gull]

There will be integration between IZ and the main game as the fuel that is produced. I don't know if you will actually be able to visit those lands in the main game, but I heard tournament will take place on T5 lands.

[viscid bolt]

Ok, just making sure there would be a benefit to purchasing land. If you could not get fuel for the main game using this land, I wouldn't see the point in purchasing it. Has there been any talk about the purchase of land for the main game (outside of T5 lands)?

[weary spindle]

If I make a calculation..correct me if I am wrong..if the 100k lands will be selled for a medium price of 3k per land...then all the money will be used to buy ILV from the market..so the marketcap of ILV will turn from 300 mil to 600 mil$ instantly.

[vivid cipher]

Sure… made up…

CANON!

[brisk gull]

That's pretty crazy right. However, it's been said that the vault would buy ILV in multiple batch overtime to limit the pump and dump, as people could buy the token, stake it flexible, earn and claim RevDis, then unstake and sell their token.

[brisk gull]

There is the blueprint thing also which is pretty interesting imo.

I think we can still see an increase because it would be also very unlikely that everyone would sell their RevDis.

[shrewd dome]

I'll my RevDis will stay ILV for at least 3 years

[brisk gull]

My plan is to retire if my monthly RevDis are more than 4x my monthly expenses. Then spend only 25% of it and reinvest the rest. Can't wait for that mini game.

[shrewd dome]

Yep. 3-4 years will be life changing for many if the project is successful

[autumn crest]

The land sales are only for the minigame, correct?

[copper jetty]

Yes but it has effect with the main game

[autumn crest]

Is there a medium article or something related to how the land will work?

[ivory vine]

Two GDDs pinned in this channel and a proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[worn scaffold]

Is it true that it is not currently known exactly how the landsale will proceed? In the article I see that there will be a check on how long you have been on strike or that there will be a check on the Dawnlight badge.

The snapshot has yet to be made or is it coming?

[wind briar]

According to the proposal that has been approved there will be no whitelist.

[worn scaffold]

Could you tell me a little bit more about the process then? 🙂

[ivory vine]

All the info there is for now can be found in the proposal in #📰〕governance-news 🙂

[molten cape]

Hello. are illuvium Zero & the land sale gonna be before the illuvium open beta? does someone know when?

[ivory vine]

Land Sale will be before. Roughly 7-10 weeks from here. No final details. IZ Launch possibly before release of main game - at least that's the hope/plan. Also, please don't ask the same things in multiple channels, thanks 🙂

[molten cape]

And which will be the number of lands and the price of them? @ivory vine

[ivory vine]

20k of 100k are most likely sold in the first sale. It's a dutch auction. Starting prices not disclosed yet.

[sick cape]

What is a dutch auction?

[ivory vine]

Price starts high and is reduced over time until someone buys.

Also: Sometimes putting a tiny bit of effort in yourself (f.x. 1min of Google) would go a long way to becoming more self-sufficient when it comes to acquiring knowledge 🙂

[molten cape]

I heared something about that is starts from 1000$ is this true

[sick cape]

Will a person be able to buy more than one land?

[ivory vine]

No final price points are determined yet.

[molten cape]

and how many of the 20k plots will be tier 1 2 3 4 and 5?

[ivory vine]

Also not disclosed yet. Check the proposal in #📰〕governance-news this is the most recent info. It just got approved, development starts now (or probably is already) and new information will come when it's available.

[molten cape]

DO we know if the land will need some attention by the owner, or can increase the benefit by doin gthings all ti will be a 100% automatic passive income?

[ivory vine]

Please read the two GDDs pinned in this channel and the proposal I already mentioned. That's the majority of info available right now. If you want to dig even deeper you could use the search function and look for Aaron | Illuvium and Johnny | Illuvium to maybe find a few nuggets not in those documents 🙂

[cinder fractal]

Yes and no if you want maximum return you will need to interact frequently but you can also build factory that can earn resources for you even if you don't interact often but your returns will be lower

It will be fun to see in the future if whales are going to look for people to develop their land if that's more profitable than to build these self operating factories

Im in the pool for some time but from last week I started to explore illuvium rabbit hole it was already complex but with addition of mini game its even more can't imagine when we have another major title and interaction between 2 worlds exiting time ahead us

[modern quartz]

@ivory vine you have the patience of a saint 👼

[vivid wharf]

How much do you guys think Tier 5 land will sell for?

[quasi geyser]

Millions

[vivid wharf]

I really hope you're wrong because I'd love to have one - but you are probably right ><

[potent dock]

I think 100's of thousands is possible. I'd like land to sell for ungodly amounts, but land price predictions are pretty speculative.

[lucid karma]

i doubt T5 land will sell for less than $100K and probably closer to $1M

[vivid cipher]

There has been some discussion regarding making sure land is sold with the expected structures to remain in place. Or liquidating all structures and then selling the land. Honestly I’m not worried about that. It’ll get worked out so no one can pull a bait and switch.

My real question right now is should it be possible for a player building one tier 0 land to purchase tier 1 (or higher land) and then transfer all of their buildings onto their NFT? Probably to do so would incur a transfer fee if some kind. I would think it could be possible. It would create at least the potential for value from time and funds spent on creating and upgrading their Nexus. One problem would be the differences between the various pieces of land that would change the way the buildings would be most efficiently used. Of course it would also allow new land owners to be able to jump right into earning at potentially higher rates than the previous land owner and therefore shock the market. Especially if the land owner had left the land fallow (like a fool). But this would also still be possible for players to do with undeveloped land. They’d just need to dump money into it. I’m just thinking if f2p users have the opportunity to make a jump to earning tiers without losing their time and money already invested then there’s a much higher chance that even f2p users would spend funds in Illuvium Zero.

One thought that brings it back around to the first paragraph is that land bought on the marketplace would likely be able to have clear indicators regarding the value and efficiency of the buildings on the land. So any new buyer might end up having the chance to choose to liquidate certain assets and then use those funds to quickly rebuild to match their own preferences. The investment loss incurred by destroying/liquidating buildings (structures is probably a more inclusive term) would be a good starting point for calculating the cost to transfer structures.

Dang I just was thinking how it could potentially lead to players being able to “earn” without holding a land NFT for a significant period of time. Build on t0 land. Buy t1 land. Pay to transfer structures. Liquidate all structures. Sell t1 land. PROFIT.

So the transfer fee would need to be higher than the value of liquidating the structures. Gosh it all gets so complex.

I could even imagine folks finding land for sale with valueble structures, buying it, liquidating structures, reselling land at a lower price then they bought it for, but still turning a profit because of the earnings from the structure liquidation. I don’t know. Maybe just all structures should be liquidated before any sale of the land. It would mean a harder transition for new land owners and therefore a harder jump from t0 to t1-4. I’d imagine it’d also mean less t0 players paying to speed up building times in general.

Well if things were easy they wouldn’t be worth doing.

||Here’s a cookie for reading my book. 🍪 ||

[vivid cipher]

There are only 7 tier 5 lands. And there will be a very clear use case for significant revenue. It’s gonna be millions. Tens of millions I’d say.

[vivid wharf]

I truly doubt 10's of millions - but millions wouldn't shock me

[quasi geyser]

and all revenue from land sales goes BACK to token holders.... no one should be mad that whales are spending big

[vivid cipher]

Only 1 or 2 sold per tranche. Yeah they’ll go for a ton.

[quasi geyser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-beDs_yggp8

watch this video and then you wont be in doubt anymore

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/all-of-this-pointing-up-there-see-this-gif-14720503

[vivid wharf]

Like IDK man - it sounds cool but it isn't a JPEG of a rock or something

[quasi geyser]

plz do some research fren

[vivid cipher]

||https://www.constructiondive.com/news/new-report-ranks-the-30-most-expensive-sports-venues/595739/||

https://www.aikenhouse.com/post/how-do-esports-organizations-make-money

Anyway it’s true. It’s all speculation. And I’m done for now. Don’t want to get in trouble.

Wait what?!?!? I have not been checking opensea… it’s not like I have one of those anyway 🦐

[vivid wharf]

Thanks, I missed that - entirely different value proposition

[vivid cipher]

Wait. That’s just the listing price. Not a actual sale price.

[vivid wharf]

Brb need to tell my wife we can't buy a house because I need to liquidate millions to attempt to purchase an NFT

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-the-way-mandalorian-this-is-the-way-intensifies-gif-16048235

Lol it’s crazy. My wife could not be convinced. She was like “Nice I’m glad our ILV is going up. But why use sILV to get something else.”

So many reasons…

[trail kayak]

true but think it’s safe to say they won’t be sold for less than current floor

[slow cedar]

My wife just says "it's not real and until you cash it out" which just tells me I should make sure I keep it not real for as long as possible...

[fierce glen]

I feel this 😅

[misty orbit]

Feels good when your partner trusts you 100% with what you're doing

[graceful hemlock]

K let’s pump the brakes. They sold for 10eth, it’s listed for 1000eth sure but till it sells it’s not worth that it’s worth 10. Which is still alot but no 1000.

Just saying

[trail kayak]

fair point, but it also aligns with how land sale could work out. starts off $10M+ but maybe only bought in single digit M with exponential drop off

[brisk gull]

Sold for 10 eth 22 days ago. It would not sell under 100k rn.

[shrewd dome]

There are only 7

[graceful hemlock]

Oh 100% the possibilities are endless and I’m crypto almost boundless. It’s not like I’m not balls deep invested in ILV, the more money they sell for the better lol

[cinder fractal]

Can we have land price group chat same how we have token for ilv

[blazing briar]

we can make a thread for this when the sale is live

[bitter glade]

Um, what? I’m not sure I follow. I might hit you up privately to clarify.

[dire pier]

He means if land had improvements, then trade/transfer of land includes improvements

[zenith kelp]

Hi is there an updated version of the GDD? The previous one shows Tier 3 looking better than Tier 4 land and the Tier 5 shows total 10 supply not 7, etc :}

[fallow igloo]

This is just a guess, but I believe it’s supposed to be like that because T4s have the potential to find blueprints and scan Illuvials where as the lowers do not

[chilly hemlock]

I’m pretty sure that is not true, T4s can find T4 blueprints and scan T4 illuvials just like T3 does with T3 illuvials etc

[fallow igloo]

I can see that, that totally makes sense 👏

[vivid cipher]

I mean we could start the thread now... there's already so much time spent speculating on the price of Land when there is way more going on in Illuvium Zero than just the land sale

[vivid cipher]

Yeah for sure... let me know. I definitely sat and rambled for awhile. Too many thoughts and not enough organization I think.

[blazing briar]

Yeah that works too haha we can always stand to declutter

[vivid cipher]

IZ - LAND DUTCH AUCTION

[cinder fractal]

That's why I suggested to have new chat for price of the land I would really like to talk more about the game

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[cinder fractal]

Great this was fast :)

[idle rover]

Higher tier land for higher tier resources or is it about bonuses and space

[cinder fractal]

It's more resources and some extra stuff that lower tiers don't have

There is also another document under pinned messages but you can find most of the information here

At page7 you can find what each tier will have

[sick cape]

will there be a guild sistem for the mini game?

[vivid cipher]

not at the start no

[polar yacht]

what is going to be the estimated time interval between land sale and IZ release

[vivid cipher]

i can't remember what the proposal said

8 weeks I guess

this proposal regarding Illuvium Zero was passed. https://gov.illuvium.io/#/ilvgov.eth/proposal/QmNab3vqQX3q2yTNSo1rwK5PzPgE8QxRnEA13jKz8gWQu9

[cinder fractal]

And second land sale will be after public beta or maybe it can be squized between first sale and public beta?

[amber atlas]

0 for v1, which means you can use your land to play on immediately

but you can't generate fuel until the v2 release which is aligned with main game release (and a wipe is expected as per IIP)

this is why we added v1.1 releases (Blueprint Minting) ... gives people something they can take out of the time they put in to v1

https://gov.illuvium.io/#/ilvgov.eth/proposal/QmNab3vqQX3q2yTNSo1rwK5PzPgE8QxRnEA13jKz8gWQu9

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/all-of-this-pointing-up-there-see-this-gif-14720503

[vivid cipher]

yeah... S M A R T

[cosmic aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/smort-smart-peralta-gif-5914562

[amber atlas]

I mean hopefully people will actually enjoy the game too 🙂

[vivid cipher]

don't know if you read my long book above... I basically had a feverdream of IZ ideas and wrote them all down

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

https://tenor.com/view/warning-sign-rainy-enter-risky-gif-6097054

[amber atlas]

<- eats his 🍪

my biggest concern when it comes to crossovers between t0 and t1 is bots/farmers

not to mention all of the issues you mention

I can't really see a safe way this can work, but I will think about it

[merry elm]

Idk if I missed it or what , what is with land size , there are so many buildings, so I am confused if you can fit them in one land, or you need multiple?

[amber atlas]

if you consider cosmetic/flex items than I think we can confidently say that you won't fit all structures on one Land

we haven't finalised tech tree nor land size, but the goal would be that you can out multiple tech trees (say Solon production and Research) on one piece of land

we want some pressure on space, as this makes for interesting game play choices

[merry elm]

I understand it , makes sense, just didn't see anything about it in doc so was interested how it works out with land size!

[amber atlas]

Kieran really loves the idea of combining lands in to mega lands, and it has some really interesting possibilities in terms of adding value to your land (e.g. imagine price possibilities if your Land is the last piece a whale needs to complete their 3x3 mega land)

to facilitate that we would need some reason for such mega lands to exist

[merry elm]

I can see how people could get very competitive about it

[amber atlas]

but certainly as I see it, the bulk of the players, and the bulk of gameplay, will focus on single Lands

[merry elm]

I am probably jumping in to early with questions. 😄

[amber atlas]

as long as it is understood that this is not a binding statement of how it will be, but a general idea of the direction we are thinking, then all is well 🙂

we will release more docs and details over time

[merry elm]

good to know, thanks for at least clarifying that you will actually have to prioritize what you chose to build

[vivid cipher]

Yeah I started to feel the same way.

[empty lake]

When sill be the land sale guys? do you have the date?

[half turtle]

@empty lake a tentative schedule/timeline is in the iip looks like 10 ish weeks?

[viscid badger]

Anyone else think it’s a little too soon for a land sale? I kinda liked how ILV was waiting to do that unlike other projects

[cosmic aspen]

too soon? it isn't for 2 more months

at least

[viscid badger]

That’s good, I just meant before the game is out and in full swing

[hasty mica]

Land sale around the end of Dec, is this a fair assumption?

[vivid cipher]

The land being sold is for use in a different game. But to create value in the maingame. #🎮〕illuvium-zero

[vivid cipher]

No. Ten weeks from now.

[half turtle]

@viscid badger I understand the concern.. but there should be new hires to take on the increased workload, and the mini-game was designed not to be too laborious or resource-intensive .. I'm sure the team is completely focused on the main game and how this mini-game will complement it.

[viscid badger]

Makes sense! Good that proceeds go to ILV holders in the end too

[vivid cipher]

Honestly i see a possibility for a different type of land to be sold to be available in the RPG game if/when it gets expanded to MMO

But that is not relevant to this channel

[viscid badger]

Yeah that would be next level, I’m just excited for the first iteration!

[fervent wolf]

I'm saving as much as I can atm for the land sale. Really want to get T2 or above at release. Really hoping the lower tiers are affordable to start with

[half turtle]

Im still slightly confused about the land sale parameters..

values per sale period.```
Will `value` be based on region, tiers, or both? if regions, then how? I don't think I understand enough about the game to purchase a plot based purely on its geographic region, and specifically without any understanding of its rarity(tier).. any thoughts or clarification would be appreciated..

perhaps the crimson wasteland would be the highest value?

🤔

[merry elm]

You will probably have to wait few more weeks to get better info, from the look of it nothing is set in stone yet and there is lot that is not even decided.

[half turtle]

@merry elm fair enough!

[merry elm]

Will have to trust that they know what is best approach, because I feel like community at this moment is very limited on suggestions they can give with so much of information being held out, they know how game systems work we know just some parts of it , don't want to sound silly trying to suggest something that dosnt fit in the mechanics at all.

[half turtle]

I completely agree. I understand why most of the project details are siloed -- it makes perfect sense, but it also somewhat vegetates any meaningful community input or involvement.. As most people have no idea what's involved in game dev, mechanics, or marketing, it might be best for the moment! If the game is hot, then its worth it

[deep iris]

I think another possibility that was thrown out there (can’t remember exactly where) was that building might be able to occur on multiple plots of land even if not adjacent? Not sure if that’s been nixed though

[vivid cipher]

My understanding is that starting value of the Dutch auctions would be based on tier.

[vivid cipher]

Ah yeah that’s true…some sort of portal or wormhole thing

[dusk fox]

Hi guys, Do you have any confirmation about this?

[cosmic aspen]

still no news on that

will probably depend on how much time that would take to develop

[little moon]

I know the team hasnt announced anything yet but I doubt combined payment will be supported. There is so much stuff to get done before they launch both the main game and the minigame, if combined payment represents extra effort it likely wont be a priority. Best to plan that it wont be supported and if it is then its just good luck.

[valid canyon]

It depends of how fast they can hire new devs. How many HR agencies works on ILV?

[little moon]

Yeah they certainly have the funding to hire the problem away, Im just thinking that in the grand scheme of things projects of this scale usually struggle to meet deadlines and extra features are often opted out of for the sake of efficient development.

Honestly i think bringing more ETH into the ecosytem is better overall, I would be fine if sILV was excluded entirely

[tacit cliff]

mega land for special obelisk to travel to mysterious part of illuvium (chance to encounter mystic illuvials)
wow can this be the reason mega land exist? 😀
👀

[slow cedar]

A more straight forward thing could be as simple as a building which others can go to which somehow increases their production. Imagine if a huge building causes all within X tiles to generate 15% extra fuel - the land owner the fuel is on gets 10%, the factory owner gets 5%... Which benefits everyone, causes mega buildings to be desirable and a good source of passive income, and would cause interesting price spikes in lands where multiple big buildings overlap

You could have different mega buildings for every resource, and adjust the buff range and %'s (perhaps its the whole region it buffs as an example) but its a clear use case for mega buildings. Imagine a whole region clubbing together to try and buy someone out so a whale can build a mega building for the whole region...

[tacit cliff]

interesting

[dense cipher]

Well great idea

[sharp galleon]

where did you read that?

[little wagon]

@ivory vine Is it already released what the timeline will be for the other 80k lands that come up for sale?

[ivory vine]

Not to my knowledge, no. The first sales hasn't even been planned fully yet in terms of date/prices 🙂

[little wagon]

I know, was just wondering about it during my morning coffee 😉

[tacit cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/coffee-smiley-coffee-for-you-gif-8990434

[sharp galleon]

I mean there is nothing official yet, but I thin the best way would be to have tranches with a mix of all Tiers. If you do it with 5 tranches for each tier it will be hard to buy your target Tier, because it will be hard for someone who wants to buy Tier3 to wait and see until the Tier3 auction runs and then realize that it's too expensive. But Tier 2 auction already happened and they now cannot buy a Tier2 anymore

[tacit cliff]

series of mix tier YEP

[empty lake]

any price predictions guys? for tier of lands?

[south forge]

no idea to be honest., my personal guess? starting at 1k and up from there

i was hoping to pick up a t3 or t4 for under 30k... but 🤷‍♂️

[blissful storm]

If T5 goes for > $500k, I would expect T4 to be at least $100k. On top of that, there's plenty of sILV claimed already and possibly more will be claimed in the months to come

I would like a T4 as well but if prices skyrocket I will be happy with some T1's 🙂

[south forge]

yeah the mass claim of sILV days before land sale is going to be huge

[blissful storm]

I mean, good for the long term as less ILV will be minted but big effect on land sale I assume

[sharp galleon]

it will be over 1 million easy

[south fable]

what currency will land be paid using

[faint fable]

Eth & Silv

[south fable]

ty

[bleak bison]

Does that mean that people who are not staking their ILV are not going to be able to buy?

[south fable]

i mean u could always swap ilv for eth to buy

[ivory vine]

sILV is only one option to pay for land during the sale. You can also buy via ETH.

[bleak bison]

Oh thanks! Im stupid hahah

[graceful stag]

hey all, can someone please provide a link to more info about T1-5?

or explain what they are

[rain breach]

https://www.publish0x.com/ilvfi/everything-we-know-about-illuvium-zero-and-the-land-sale-xdgdpnz

[faint fable]

Download the pdf further up its goes into details on the land and buildings & categories

[ivory vine]

All info about the mini-game can be found in the two GDDs pinned in this channel and in the proposal in #📰〕governance-news You can also try and search for Aaron | Illuvium and Johnny | Illuvium here, this might give a bit of additional info nuggets 🙂

[graceful stag]

thanks @faint fable @ivory vine , appreciate it

[sharp galleon]

i hope sILV and ETH can be combined for landsale

[vivid cipher]

One interesting bit with this is that it helps prop up the apy in the ILV only staking pool for longer. Less tokens locked.

[vivid cipher]

We can only hope that the revenue added for such an option would offset the cost to develop it.

Real economists might have a better analysis of what it would mean for the vault if this was possible.

[obtuse stag]

Probably for the vault itself wouldn't make such a big difference. People will buy the land nonetheless and essentially spend the same amount money.

But if Eth and sILV cannot be combined, maybe there will be more "leftover" sILV as it cannot be rounded up with Eth for certain land purchases. Which means those are going straight into the game, and maybe people having more of those "leftover" sILV gonna be a bit more generous spending it in game.

[vivid cipher]

So the only funds that get added to the vault will be ETH. sILV once used is getting burnt. Use it in game… burnt. Use it to pay for land… burnt. The vault receives no directly added value from sILV sales. Only indirectly through the added scarcity of ILV token. So in the short term it’s irrelevant. But in the long term it’ll be more significant

[deep iris]

I wonder if there may develop a secondary market to swap sILV/ETH or sILV/ILV

[vivid cipher]

I’ve seen a small one already. Probably 4 sILV in the pool or something ridiculous

[obtuse stag]

For some reason I assumed the economic effect of burning sILV or adding the same value of ETH to the vault is pretty similar for the overall ecosystem. But maybe it is not that simple.

One thing for sure, both are good for ILV 🙂

[obtuse stag]

As we get closer to the game, I am sure it will get more liquidity. Maybe even around the land sale as well.

[vivid cipher]

Or a different unofficial pool will be setup.

[valid canyon]

I think when it will be a lot of amount of sILV then the market appears. Now all claim ILV with lock I think

[vivid cipher]

There have already been several thousand sILV claimed. Its all on etherscan

!contract

[dry forge]

ILV Token: 0x767fe9edc9e0df98e07454847909b5e959d7ca0e
ETH/ILV SLP Token: 0x6a091a3406e0073c3cd6340122143009adac0eda
sILV Token: 0x398aea1c9ceb7de800284bb399a15e0efe5a9ec2

[zenith cradle]

MetaMask doesn’t seem to have ILV as an option. I was moving 1.3 ILV from one MetaMask account to another and it didn’t show up.
Didn’t have ILV as an option on the second account. Does anyone have a solution please?

[cosmic aspen]

add token -> custom token -> the ILV token address directly above your message

[valid canyon]

Look how much liquidity in sushi in ILV, how much thousand? x10 or x20 from “several thousand “. I mean only 1,5k ILV need for creating good liq pool

[valid canyon]

Or you can go to CoinGecko. Search ILV -> press behind the number of contract “add to MetaMask”

[cinder fractal]

Just wait for land sale :)

[zenith cradle]

@cosmic aspen @valid canyon Thanks guys. All sorted. Just got here and you have helped me immensely. Legends!

[near whale]

It will be interesting to see how the dao governs the staking rewards for the large incoming rewards from land sale to avoid a staking “pump and pump” from the large land sale revenue

[low geode]

Very nice article, thank you

[near whale]

Perhaps the revenue should be allocated based on time staked

[brisk gull]

The RevDis for the land sale will be distributed in multiple batch overtime.

[near whale]

Smart

[fierce glen]

Second that 👌

[slate goblet]

is it announced if the minigame will be released before or after the main game?

[brisk gull]

V1.0 should be released before the main-game. V2.0 should be released with the main-game, that's when the fuel production will start.

[brisk gull]

https://gov.illuvium.io/#/ilvgov.eth/proposal/QmNab3vqQX3q2yTNSo1rwK5PzPgE8QxRnEA13jKz8gWQu9

[sharp galleon]

yeah makes sense

[inland smelt]

Erm... Although still don't know if we can make the hybrid payment to buy LAND. But why don't you allow to swap ILV to sILV ? I think it may encourage people to buy ILV to supplement the sILV that they've received from staking to buy LAND.

[vivid cipher]

It’s simply not how it works. Every sILV is being minted when earned in staking. To create tokens out of thin air means an increase in total possible tokens. And that is hard capped at 10million ILV. The treasury does not have any sILV. It’s all in the hands of private stakers.

ILV is not technically being burnt when people get sILV. It’s simply not being minted.

[inland smelt]

Understood! Thank you

Will the stakers in SushiLP pool also receive revdis ?

[vivid cipher]

Yes. Based on how much ILV is in your SLP. So 50% of its value.

[inland smelt]

Thank you so much!

[hidden moss]

Is there a cheaper option to purchase ILV without paying ridiculous gas fees?

[crimson abyss]

Unfortunately no. Wait till low gas. Friday nights and sunday morning usa time tend to be your best bets.

[hidden moss]

Got it. Thank you.

[rotund owl]

how many lands will be sold in the first sale in total

[dry mango]

gate.io/bitcoin.com (CEX) so if you want to put it on stake, better go for sushiswap.

[ember hill]

A couple of questions on the land sale---not sure if this info has been covered yet:

1. Will there be a map available when the lands are put up for sale so we can see where the lands are located?
2. Will the marketplace be up and running by the time of the first land sale?

[vivid cipher]

1. I don't know... that would be nice though...
2. I don't think so

We will know the situation as we get closer though

[ember hill]

Sounds good, thanks

[tawny willow]

Do we know if the land sale will be offered via a launchpad or acclerator and conform to IDO restrictions for US based folks?

[vivid cipher]

I have no idea what any of that means. But if the balancer sale for the token was any indication it’ll be open to everyone. My assumption is that land sale will be on a team built platform.

[opal thistle]

Ok mine is a bit easier question. I would assume correctly that as we get closer to the land sale, the specs of each land will be revealed correct?

[faint fable]

Hopefully

It will be a strategic buy and some level of decision making will be involved.

[sick cape]

Yeah, at least we hope so...but the project was recently approved so we will need to wait

[opal thistle]

Yeah, I really love the idea of interconnected games

And that it wasn't just another sell of land on the same game

[mortal merlin]

Team is buiding its own platform

So its decentralized

[tulip gust]

that's really great. maybe we should expect these same lands to be connected with all future games?

[opal thistle]

That sounds like a terrific idea and I think I heard in one of Kieran's interviews something like that (I will check it to see if I'm correct)

[tulip gust]

That would surely add a lot of value into lands

Plus... if the first game is getting this good, imagine the future ones!

[opal thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/himym-barney-mindblown-neil-patrick-harris-gif-4570342

[limpid pendant]

Re-reading the GDD and Tokenomics of Fuel and rationalising it's use as opposed to just using ETH. I'm keen to hear people's opinions on the pros/cons of using Fuel as a currency vs just ETH?

[vivid cipher]

I think the likelihood of fuel tokens being used in most or even all future studio games is high. A DAO controlled and managed token for in game use allows the illuvium community to manage its primary in game currency. Players needing to constantly be wondering “How much ETH is this in game transaction going to cost me?” seems like a nice thing to avoid. Prices could simply be set as a flat amount of FUEL. How much that fuel is worth would fluctuate a little but not nearly like an out of game token like ETH or even sILV. I think this would lead to more clarity and stability for the majority of players.

I’d love to hear from others on this topic as well

[limpid pendant]

Yeah I can see the ETH volatility argument but then in this case I think, why not just use USDC or some other stablecoin? If the daily volatility of FUEL can be closer to being pegged to say $1, I can see it's value as in-game currency

I'm ignoring IZ in this example given it is just a mini-game. I'm forming conclusions on this but personally it does feel that a new currency/monetary policy has been introduced to create interoperability with a mini-game which doesn't appear to yield much benefit beyond ETH or USDC being used as in-game currency in the main game. As I said still forming views on this, so Im open to pros/cons

[vivid cipher]

IZ is a minigame but essentially designed to be the hub for the illuvium metaverse of games

[mortal merlin]

Exactly.

[limpid pendant]

Another con is also the tax players pay (x% to land owners) so they are getting less value for their purchase compared with just using ETH in game

[mortal merlin]

Way more stable.

[vivid cipher]

No because otherwise it’d be going to the vault.

[limpid pendant]

Yep I can see this aspect as a pro

[vivid cipher]

Maybe not the same percentage but similar.

[mortal merlin]

It doesnt change anything to the current system.

[limpid pendant]

On the basis that the DAO manages the monetary policy tightly?

[mortal merlin]

Just adds a swap

[mortal merlin]

DAO will produce 50% of the fuel and tax 90% of the fuel produced by the lands.

So basically 95% is controlled by the DAO

Land owners get 5% of the revenue

[polar yacht]

is fuel generation and distribution by land owner more or less an autonomous process?

[limpid pendant]

Produce as in the same way that land owners would 'produce' fuel?

[mortal merlin]

Yes

We control a tap

We control the supply

To keep the price stableish

[mortal merlin]

Different buildings for different play style. You can set it to make it more passive but less income

Or more active for more income

[limpid pendant]

ok then from a players perspective, it's no different to using ETH as in-game currency, except for an additional step. Buy ETH -> enter game -> swap ETH/FUEL -> buy in-game product. Are there any taxes that the player needs to pay?

[mortal merlin]

Taxes?

Like in real life?

[mortal merlin]

Thats the land owners

The 5% i was talking about

[limpid pendant]

Gotcha, so would this mean that as a player, if I rocked up with $100 ETH and swapped it fuel, then I'd get $95 of FUEL? I know this might seem obvious but double checking lol

[mortal merlin]

No you would get 100$ of fuel

Minus swap fees

Your eth is then converted to ILV tokens by the vault and distributed to stakers and land owners

So the stakers get 5% less revdis

Doesnt affect the player.

[polar yacht]

did you mention what fuel is used for in the game play or is it still not released yet? ie is it used to pay for travel?

[mortal merlin]

All fees

[limpid pendant]

Gotcha, was trying to work out where the leakage is going. So the use of FUEL instead of ETH as in-game currency means that Stakers get 5% less revenue