🎮〕illuvium-zero

[south crater]

how many ILV do I need to start playing?

[ivory vine]

None

!f2p

[dry forge]

You begin our game with a free-to-play experience that immerses you in our richly-detailed world, lets you enjoy some action, and helps you understand how the game works. The free-to-play experience will familiarize you with Illuvium, and won’t feel like an “abridged” version of the game. It is a full-fledged gameplay experience, so you can decide to opt in to the paid experience and start collecting NFTs, and delve into deeper adventures to explore the mysteries of the game.

[south crater]

Does Illuvium have another token for me to buy from the market?

[ivory vine]

Only $ILV

[blazing briar]

Try to keep conversations relevant to channel y'all, thanks #🥩〕staking

[pale wyvern]

Ohh I'm really sorry, my bad i didn't realized i'm on the wrong channel cause i was watching youtube illuvium videos and interviews. I'll sure to follow next time, thank you.

[flat aurora]

Hello does iluvium game live on mainnet ???

[knotty lion]

Mini Game - Land sale should be offered differently per tier...

Limited land plots : Mapped Grid Plots (like Axie, but more random for t1)

My idea is

tier 5 - have the Mythic land auctioned : with limited number (staggered auction)

for other Lower tiers

tier 3 - 4 : Price is set - limited plots

4: fixed resources 

3: lower price than t4, fixed resources less than t4

2: lower price than t3, fixed resources less than t3

tier 1: title tickets to place on the grid with random resources less than t2

tier 0 - the free land for testing.. ownership/access limited to a few weeks...

Start with a Mythic land auction...

then sell the T1.

then base on the demand price t2 - t4 accordingly..

[ivory vine]

When mini-game approval? 🙂 Wanna see that development get started 💪

[serene junco]

yes pls

[vestal thunder]

So exciting

[real urchin]

Governance proposal 8

Mini game... approval for development with changes and to be made/edited/added.
Haha.

[jagged brook]

any screenshots?

[ivory vine]

For the main-game in here #🚰〕leaks . For the mini-game, No. Work on it only begins if the high-level design gets approved by the council.

[worn tinsel]

is it available on mobile gaming??

[bitter glade]

There won't be any screenshots for IZ until some time after it gets approved.

I do have a 'proposed building style' but I don't want to leak it.

[bitter glade]

It will be, if it gets approved, and once we build it.

[worn tinsel]

uhhhhh nice. at least i can play anywhere. thank you sir

[bitter glade]

In fact the mini game won't even use Unreal. We would do it in Unity.

[wanton sequoia]

Really excited for this game. but will this game will be played on laptop/pc as i understand that it is a mobile game?

[mortal merlin]

Minigame will be on mobile

Illuvium will be on pc/mac

[ivory vine]

And Mobile x months later 🙂

[wanton sequoia]

This is really exciting as everyone has an access on playing on mobile. this game makes me super bullish!

[bitter glade]

Minigame will also be on PC I believe. And web.

Or at least they should be target platforms that don't take a billion hours more work to do.

[slow cedar]

@bitter glade I'm curious, how do we actually get this approved? What's the next step to get a vote through to approve it?

[wispy birch]

hmm

[bitter glade]

We will put through an IIP soon. We just want there to be a little bit more discussion since it was literally just a couple of days ago that we showed the game design document.

A week or two to get things right and let people have their say I think is better than rushing into something

[slow cedar]

Have you got any points in particular you're keen to see the community talk about? Some nudges could help us get talking

I'll chime in with something: the core gameplay loop at the moment seems to be collect resources to build buildings by pressing at specific times. I'd like to ask the question of if/how we could add additional depth to the gameplay (eg a timed match 3 style game which decides how many resources you get (or any easy to program mini game))

I'd personally like to feel like 'ability' causes better results with resource gathering

I'm keen to see the mini game feel more like a game, and less like glorified crypto farming, but welcome others thoughts and opinions

[wind briar]

I think for the first proposal it is basic in design do we want to build Y/N. The in-depth game can be hashed out later with Johnny I think.

[slow cedar]

Let's get clarity on that. I don't want us assuming stuff and missing a chance to add input. If the overall concept will be fleshed out by the devs then I'm not too sure what else there is to talk about. Green light this badboy and get those new unity devs hired

[wind briar]

Well I think the first proposal will include # of lands

And IMO that will cap the # of players playing it

Do we want to cap the # of players?

[slow cedar]

IMO we'd do a land sale, t0 is free to play, t1 is a set low price but unlimited for x period, and t2 - 5 is auctions for the good stuff. That way no one misses out if interested, the auctions value the expensive lands and the DAO potentially gets way larger returns than a limited sale could offer

[wind briar]

t1 as a set price means a whale can buy as many t1 as he wants that it eventually outperforms a t5

I was in voice chat earlier and I think majority agreed with me no one will play free2play. This game is meant to provide value to land owners and playing the game to produce nothing is weird ( to me).

[little wagon]

What is wrong with the dutch auction style? Let the price of every tier settle at an equilibrium.

[slow cedar]

The biggest problem with this is potentially leaving fans unable to get a land to play on if land numbers aren't right for the demand. But if we can hit demand perfectly, I agree with a full auction approach - I just have no idea how to calculate that demand

[arctic tree]

Best platform to buy ILV?

[mortal merlin]

Sushiswap

!buy

[dry forge]

You can buy ILV on the main DEX here: https://app.sushi.com/swap?inputCurrency=ETH&outputCurrency=0x767fe9edc9e0df98e07454847909b5e959d7ca0e , or on the following CEX's

Gate.io (non US residents) https://www.gate.io/trade/ILV_USDT
Bitcoin.com

[wind briar]

regardless to the way the land is sold, if there is a cap on # of land fans will be left out

If we make 50,000 lands what happens when next 6 months we have 3m+ fans.

[slow cedar]

Unless you do an unlimited sale I agree. Or via the game the team creates a way to mint lands which they can control the quantity of

[ivory vine]

Then you have a lot of value increase on those 50k lands.

[wind briar]

Still doesn't change the fact you have fans who are priced out

[slow cedar]

I think pricing out those late to the party feels less severe than pricing out those eager to play as the game goes live

[ivory vine]

And the problem with that would be? Blockchain Games, Play2Earn, all this stuff is completely new and with money and actual profits involved, it is impossible to have everyone get everything. I am absolutely in favour of getting many in the community on board with land play but there has to be a cut off point and whoever doesn't make the cut (be it timing, money or whatnot) has to live with that.

A free market cannot please everyone.

[slow cedar]

My biggest issue is we've become so obsessed with the land sale no one is critiquing the game. I feel like if the team said 'we' re going to make flappy birds, with lands!' we' d be having the exact same conversations and it worries me we're focused on the wrong aspects

[ivory vine]

I've read the GDD multiple times. If I had things to critique I would do so. Fact is, we either get a mini-game with land functionality out quickly or it loses much of the appeal and possible marketing power. I like these kind of building games and with clear ties into the main game there would be a reason to engage in it, even if that is first and foremost from an investment perspective. The game can always be improved and extended upon with time.

We could discuss for months now about gameplay, particular features and whatnot. The result? It would be impossible to get it released before the main-game and personally, I am thinking DAO success over personal game preferences right now. Getting FUNCTIONAL land play out immediately after the land sale and even before other games that had their sales ages ago already, could have a huge impact on the growth of Illuvium, both in terms of funds through the sale AND influx of new players.

So for me it is clear: Approve the - in my opinion - decent suggestions and get it launched asap > discussing gameplay and features "forever" and missing out on those opportunities.

[slow cedar]

This makes sense, but I don't feel there's been any gameplay discussion at all. Hell, put me in the team and I'll make a fun mini game as you collect your resources within a fortnight. And that's the thing, I don't think it needs complex balance and gameplay, just something which sets it apart from idle clickers

I personally would just like to see illuvium 0 be a game, and not be a land sale with something bolted on

[wind briar]

Ok let me try to spin it this way. The DAO benefits greatly from the sale and we earn the benefits. Everyone is happy for weeks/months. Now only % low percent of playerbase have lands and benefits from them. Later on the larger % of the playerbase get angry/jealous and want to change the dynamics. Introduce our DAO dynamics and we got chaos lol.

[ivory vine]

Why do we have chaos? If at any given time after the land sale someone comes with a proposal and that proposal gets approved by the council at that time, then new lands could be sold.

If no such proposal is made, or the council rejects it, then those unhappy with not having gotten a land will have to go to the secondary market. It is not much different from illuvials going extinct from capturing when a new set comes out.

[bitter glade]

For me this is a strategy game. The ability should be in working out how to plan your structures to get what you want faster. I’m not sure in a city builder game people want to stop to do skill checks.
Sure this won’t have the depth of Sim City, but over time that sort of complexity seems like a better fit.

Happy to discuss it though.

[bitter glade]

This is more what the proposal would be.

[bitter glade]

Some people simply like this genre. There are people that will play it.

And some of those will get good and say they want to play the productive version and buy land off the market. Having an on ramp is good.

[slow cedar]

@bitter glade what would you most like to be seeing talked about here?

[bitter glade]

In the main game the capture difficulty goes up on a bonding curve.

This means early players will get cheaper NFTs than later (for each set).

[mortal merlin]

[bitter glade]

Would you look at that.

A random emoji for no reason

[mortal merlin]

Hahahhahahah

He woke up and chose censorship

[bitter glade]

You forced my hand really.

Anything but the D word.

[mortal merlin]

Haha wen bot

[austere heart]

So how do we play the mini-game?

[mortal merlin]

It is not playable

We are talking about making the minigame

[austere heart]

Ahh, sorry

[amber atlas]

As far as city builders go the framework should be quite rich, being tied to fuel and land incentivises optimising the structures that you build, and the ability to collect different Illuvial bio-data by way of scanning adds a nice collection building element which can be leveraged for aesthetic driven gameplay (e.g. build a square of holographic statues depicting your scanned Illuvials)

it is not going to be the kind of game you play 4 (or 24) hours a day, that's where the main game will sit, but it should be entertaining for people interested in the world and lore, and more generally for anyone who enjoys this genre of game

[prisma carbon]

as minigames go, putting our illuvials into quest/adventure might be an option

so there'll be more demand for illuvials per person in the market

[grizzled helm]

Interesting idea

especially with the lower level plots

I think higher level plots should be done in Auctions as that is in the best interest of the DAO

I dont think that should be argued, the only argument comes down to making sure the use case of land is strong.

[amber atlas]

honestly I don't think there is anything intrinsically fair about using a game of skill as a barrier to entry, for an analogy what if the requirement to buy ILV was being able to run a mile in six minutes or less

[grizzled helm]

Idk about that, for example, I have never played TFT

versus there will be pro LoL players

[amber atlas]

and if it is a boss, and it is fair, then it presumably it has to be the same (or at least very similar) for everyone, which means as soon as one person shares a strategy to win, everyone wins

if you are talking about building a twitch(reaction speed) based game (FPS, Fighter), then that's just a whole new and very large piece

[grizzled helm]

the perfect answer is what is in the best interest of the DAO

meaning a balancer style auction

[amber atlas]

the challenge and difference I see here is that it is a barrier to entry rather than a reward for excellence

[grizzled helm]

just my opinion

[amber atlas]

I generally think skill based challenges (like tournaments) will be a huge part of our long lasting appeal

I just can't see it fitting well in this context

of course I could be totally wrong

🙂

[grizzled helm]

Having enough funds should be a barrier imo

especially if we are talking about generating real value

[amber atlas]

its a barrier to entry to the full version of the game, but virtual land is free

[grizzled helm]

giving people free handouts isnt good

for the longevity of the game

and the Whale argument doesnt work

[amber atlas]

you can still enjoy the building and collecting elements of the proposed mini game without forking out a dime

[grizzled helm]

because the DAO will just vote against the reliance of having land based resources

I understand what you are saying

Yea exactly

It will depend whatever the DAO thinks is right in terms of approving the mini game and land sale

so we will see what happens

But this could be applied in both cases

there could be a land tax regardless

because alot of people that will buy land will buy to speculate

they wont even mine it

I am open to ideas

I just would hate to see a loss of value generated for the DAO

[amber atlas]

if you have a boss battle/skill game, can you still sell land is it an NFT?

because if thats the case, and people who paid $100 and won a tournament, are probably for the most part going to accept a 10k offer for their land anyway

[grizzled helm]

yup

there needs to be price discovery of some sort

[amber atlas]

anyways intersting discussion but I do need to head out

[grizzled helm]

See ya

[amber atlas]

talk later!

[bitter glade]

But this requires a completely different game. I don’t think it is feasible to create a game so that we can sell land in another game so that it can interact with a third.

Unfortunately it is definitely unrealistic. And even if it were, it doesn’t really solve anything. It just becomes prize money. And we can already do that with the main game. No need to sell all land at once.

[grizzled helm]

Wdym?

[limber berry]

I think I've given up on the dream of owning land for the mini game. Going to focus on main game.
I'll still play mini a lot but probably won't spend a lot of ETH

At least until I'm rich 👌
Then it's all in baby

[limber berry]

I'll buy if it's that cheap for sure 👍

[drifting pond]

That was priced for the market

Its not that market anymore

[amber atlas]

maybe there is an argument for Tier 0 land being not free land but instead land that has no fuel/resource sites, while still being part of the mini-game game economy

(we can still have free land... tier -1? )

basically the idea would be you can build something like an extractor/converters for both resources and fuel that don't require another resource to operate (i.e. a slow passive generation of resources or fuel)

these give you fuel without requiring a site, but at a much lower rate

@bitter glade any thoughts on that idea?

[mortal merlin]

Wrong Aaron ahhaa. An imposter

[amber atlas]

eek

[drifting pond]

I'm talking about the NFT gaming space, when decentral land had the first land sale, no one cared. people care now Alot.

The land will probably end up being auctioned. I don't think most will be able to afford it.

[bitter glade]

That's the key. There are only a few variables to consider. I'll write up something to clarify what we are debating because saying 'land should be about $X misses the mark. If we go the fixed price route for any of it, it needs to be 'the total land price for all plots is $X. I also have one small idea. Will chat internally for a few mins to see if I'm not crazy.

[grizzled helm]

you arent crazy

[bitter glade]

I am. The key is generating lots of crazy ideas, and then culling the shitty ones.

[grizzled helm]

Controlled chaos

but not crazy

theres a difference haha

[sly leaf]

What about auctioning off the land in GBM style?

[real urchin]

Haha you are crazy.... but your crazy matches our crazy... so it's good crazy... is that crazy or what?.

[slow cedar]

How did that work?

[sly leaf]

https://www.gbm.auction/

TLDR bid-2-earn auction

You either win the NFT or win some money by being outbid

[slow cedar]

I mean, that does seem pretty interesting

[sly leaf]

Yup it is. Had so much fun bidding

[vast elk]

Where've you been using it?

[sly leaf]

Aavegotchi

[little wagon]

@bitter glade Since the illuvials are connected to 5 elements. I was thinking for a connection between the mini-game 'Zero' resources that can be mined in the 5 elements. So you get 5 different types of resource/fuel sites. Those resources that are mined can be used in the main game to give your different illuvials some advantages, I am thinking of faster travel speed, better sight to spot an illuvial of the same kind faster, maybe extra bad/cool looks to make your illuvial a bit more unique without leaving its main form or shape, advantage in the fights, ....... you name it. Those resources can be purchased in the open market or use it from your own stack.

[bitter glade]

Those things sound cool but I don't think they will work unfortunately. It's not because of your design, it's more because of how everything currently interacts. But I keep looking into it.

[little moon]

will we be able to use sILV in the land sale if it happens?

[wind briar]

discussion is still happening, no concrete answer yet

[vivid cipher]

It doesn't seem likely... but DAO is DAO

[indigo coral]

😆

[deft pond]

night all

[timid scarab]

land sale?

[ivory vine]

If the mini-game is approved, a land sale would follow. For more info, check out the GDD in the pinned messages of this channel

[timid scarab]

thanks!

damn I really wanted a dating sim

[idle cosmos]

The search for OP luvis will be like dating to me 😛

[frozen tapir]

how to date your dragon

[inland smelt]

Hi, I've read all the Illuvium: Zero GDD. That's an amazing ideas to connect Illuvium: Zero to main game. But do you think the amount of Land sale is a bit small ? Of course I know that those ideas is waiting for the approval of the council but if it is approved, please reconsiders the amount of Land for revenue share. Thanks for all of your hard work.

[candid elk]

Aaron previously said that the values are just random values that fit the distribution he had in mind. So the amount of land will most likely change

[bitter glade]

Bingo.

But I'm getting closer to what I think would be a good thing. I'm going to present something over the weekend.

It will have diagrams and pictures and all.

[candid elk]

Awesome! Looking forward to it. When do you think the mini game will be up for voting for the council? As far as I can tell people have been pretty happy with the high level gameplay described in the GDD

[bitter glade]

End of next week maybe?

[silver sinew]

Is there an early access or sth similar?

[vivid cipher]

the mini game is not even being worked on yet

needs to get approved

[dense ingot]

Help

#help

#❓❗〕community-help

What's help command to get started in playing game?

[mortal merlin]

You can't play the game yet. It launches at the end of the year.

[dense ingot]

Mini game too?

[limber berry]

Mini game is not approved yet to my knowledge. Hence, not being built just yet

[brisk gull]

I saw Aaron said the vote will be in the end of next week? Not sure tho

But if approved should be out before the main game

[inland smelt]

If there's a land sale event, what currency will we use to buy ? ETH, USDT or ILV ?

[ivory vine]

Should be ETH and MAYBE sILV. Still to be decided and not a priority right now, because first, the minigame needs to get approved and development started 🙂

[inland smelt]

Got it! Hope this project get approved.

[prime arrow]

My only worry with the land sale is it will limit the ability for “the little guys” to advance in the game. I think to create a massively successful game we all need to be able to progress with the same investment (time / money). I’m not a fan of limiting higher tiered resources behind land plots. That’s basically pay to win which I thought is only supposed to be part of the game in the one area.

[ivory vine]

Sorry, while I agree with you overall that ideally many should have fun and be able to engage, this isn't a traditional game where people buy $50 to download and then any kind of pay2win shop should be avoided. Blockchain gaming is it's own beast and investment play a big role here otherwise the entire premise of play2earn would be unsustainable.

[prime arrow]

I 100% agree and understand that investment is an important part of this ecosystem. But Is it play to earn if you have to put out thousands of dollars to play ? I think there is a way to make the land plots an investment for the owner without making them the only ones capable of collecting higher tier illuvals.

[ivory vine]

Land is a part of the mini-game if it gets approved. It has nothing to do with the main game that still remains free to play and with small investments needed to get into the play2earn part. Also, in terms of land plots - it hasn't been decided yet, how this will play out. I just wanted to highlight that this cannot only be looked at from a traditional gaming perspective as "everyone should be able to do and get everything etc. etc." simply because real life economy play a part here 🙂

[brisk gull]

I don't think the land will give you any significant advantages on the main game, because if you don't like the mini-game, it would suck to be forced to play it to progress on the main game.

[prime arrow]

Ok that’s amazing I must have been reading someone else’s suggestion that land owners of more value get higher tier items… p.s I absolutely love the idea of having limited supply of illuvals and resources that actually make things valuable! And we would have ownership! …. I think I’m just worried that prices in general will quickly become out of my budget

[ivory vine]

I do expect higher tier land plots to have more resources or rarer resources but all of that is still TBD. Wait for Aarons next announcement/proposal here to see what it is the council gets suggested for approval.

[prime arrow]

Ok will do! Also thanks for always being here for help I really appreciate it!

[pallid holly]

@bitter glade

First of all, love your high level thinking, really great work.

Here are certain questions:

1. I saw that Land will be a key element in buying/selling amongst other aspects on the Marketplace. Will that mainly in ETH?
2. If so were does the ILV token come into play here? I am missing that in the mini game as a utility.
3. You are building a lot of features but which aspects is meant for ‘Play to earn’ cause that would be the DeFi point. And if that is known would that be in ILV or ETH.

[ivory vine]

ILV is the governance token. It has no utility in the main game either 🙂

[pallid holly]

Though we are earning it through staking

So not fully true.

[ivory vine]

Staking is not the main game 🙂 Yes, you earn ILV through staking. Yes, you can get Revenue Share as well. But nothing has any impact on the gameplay. The only way there is a slight connection is if you claim sILV and use that to pay for ingame fees. That's nothing you cannot use ETH for as well though.

[pallid holly]

Thanks. I will wait for @bitter glade

[bitter glade]

When you play you earn types of fuel. Which you would then sell for ETH. I’ll have a further proposal to explain my suggestion tomorrow. It’s a bit wild but I think it works.

[vivid cipher]

It's never enough

[pallid holly]

Will you base this upon mining from land, water, nature, fire (regions) and illuvials catching and fights etc?

[bitter glade]

Mining from regions only.

[pallid holly]

Aha thought it might a good circle cause of Carbon, Hydrogen to add illuvials as well

[idle cosmos]

Don't see the inability to unlock the full game with a small investment as a tragedy. See it as a growth opportunity. Don't aim to speedrun. Aim to win a bit more today than yesterday. +1% per day is 37.8x per year 😉

The harder it is to reach the top level, the less competition you'll face when you get there. And unlike in most games, in being at the top will possibly bring big profits, though lower ROIs than at the entry level because low-rank players will approach the game less rationally on average. /peptalk

Also, recall Adam Cochran's Twitter thread discussed at #814313819185741845 message

Different categories of players are into different games.

Whales are more into land ownership.

And given that high stakes Leviathan (the 0.1+ ETH level or so) will be hard to become profitable at, the land ownership game will be an alternative for the whales to enjoy and fuel their Leviathan battling, which, as I said, will have a lower ROI than PvE luvi catching anyway.

And you may enter the land ownership scene one day after you crush PvE and Ranked and sell the excess of your luvies.

Which are the parts of the game that whales are unlikely to play because they value their time.

---

OK, now a Q to the devs.

Is it viable to integrate a decentralized captcha service like hCaptcha https://www.hcaptcha.com/ (or, more generally, the Human protocol https://www.humanprotocol.org/?lng=en-US) into the bidding process for land?

[fallow oxide]

Definitely think a captcha process will be beneficial.

[gritty halo]

Sorry, where can I play mini-game. I cannot find it

[idle cosmos]

It's yet in the planning phase.

See the pinned messages for details.

[bitter glade]

Whales might hire people to develop their land. Or they might just let other people build up the land and then buy it off them.

If we did a Megacities expansion you need to own many plots of land in a group. Imagine being the minnow who owns land that a whale needs to expand.

[fringe gate]

Hi everyone, I have been lurking in this chat for a bit trying to catch up on the minigame and what not. So I am very excited about this development and I am reserving some cash to throw at it.
Considering the proposal, I noticed it mentioned that we would take a look at making a connection from Minigame to Maingame(s). Now it obviously is a little early to talk about multiple games but I would actually like to suggest that we take that into account already.

This minigame could become a very important part of the Illuvium ecosystem. If we build it in a way where it is generating "generic" fuel, which can be used to power unique buildings. Those buildings then either make items for the maingames, which we are able to sell on our own marketplace (think WoW auction hall) using either sILV or ETH.

During the development of new games, the minigame will always stay relevant. Land and buildings and what not will remain relevant but the minigame would never become obsolete when in a few years we play less and less Illuvium because there are new games to come.

After a while we could even partner up with other communities, who can add their buildings which can be used to produce items for that specific blockchaingame... ambitious? Perhaps, but we are building longterm items.

[idle cosmos]

@fringe gate A marketplace called IlluviDEX is already planned

[fringe gate]

But is it ready to process items from the minigame? Because it would be the perfect place for us to built the connection between mini and main

[bitter glade]

It WOULD process items from the minigame.

My plan is that instead of using eth + stuff in the main game, we make it 'fuel' + stuff

and then people buy fuel

And people make fuel in the minigame

the point being that ANY game we make from then on, will use fuel for doing stuff and it becomes like the defacto ingame currency

ETH is still used to purchase off the marketplace but that is for all the NFTs

I have a system that I'm going to post over the weekend that I think works for all this stuff. Today I had to do game design stuff and I'm sort of a bit tired since I've gone more than 12 hours today. But I'm going to push through with the game design stuff and then on the weekend I'll draw up what I propose.

But yes, this would make the minigame literally the nexus of the rest of Illuvium universe

But not in any way that makes you require it.

If you don't own land just buy 'fuel' for eth and nothing changes in any other game

If you DO have land, then you can make 'fuel' and use it in the game directly. Not exactly a license to print money, but sill valuable.

[mortal merlin]

Yea exactly

Way less distribution

Like extremely

I disagree about centering the whole economy on a mini game and lands

[candid elk]

The Way I understand it, is that the economy is centered around fuel, and the mini game would just be the initial way of actually farming fuel, but later on other games would add methods of somehow attaining fuel

[queen folio]

Was able to start going over the GDD (finally). Sorry for such a delay.

Gotta say, I love the story behind this and it definitely brought a smile to my face once I read through that section the first time. I'm looking forward to seeing some art of the Valain reconnaissance drone and watching the little thing get to work (should the proposal pass 😊)

[mortal merlin]

I'll wait and see Aaron's proposal before trippin hahaha

Cause in my head right now it transfer a huge part of revenue distribution to a few land owners

[queen folio]

Overall, Illuivum: Zero is something I’m really into! I will admit that I'm mainly looking at this from a traditional gamer standpoint and I will definitely have to dive into the DeFi aspects some more.

I like the tie between the two games here with fuel a lot and having it become a potential in-game currency across multiple (if not all) games seems to be very fitting to me as long as it is does not somehow become the main in-game currency.

But we already know this isn’t the case given ETH has been declared the in-game currency for some time now and stakers also have the option for sILV claiming, right? Are these three currencies going to be interchangeable for in-game transactions? Or perhaps only when it comes to crafting, in the case of fuel? (Like Rahlord was saying... I think I'll just need to wait for Aaron's additional info this weekend)

[ivory vine]

That cannot happen, yeah. I like the idea that fuel from the mini-game will be used in all games somehow but I shouldn't be in a way that somehow lowers the revenue that otherwise would be created for the DAO in any significant way.

[queen folio]

And this all sort of falls in line with an idea I’ve been meaning to bring up in #802110554784661544 for some time now which is “Legendary Crafting” (again, from my time in Guild Wars 2 😆 ). I feel cosmetics are going to be a huge market for the main game. Who wouldn’t want to flaunt spectacular skins in front of opponents (or “into” opponents in the case of weapon skins) during matches. Weapon skins that aren’t easily attainable and require materials from many different sources.

It kind of sounds like that would be the purpose of Illuvium: Zero and the blueprints… but I’ll still try to throw something together for the legendary crafting idea I’ve been sitting on to better present what’s going on in my head with that. Then perhaps someone can tell me that's exactly what Illuvium: Zero is doing to sit the eff down... or it could aid in further development

[fringe gate]

Ok yea, this is all I needed to hear. #excited

[fringe gate]

I would submit that they don’t own land but the rights to build on the land. That way you’d ensure they use it to built stuff instead of just hoarding land and then a percentage of every direct purchase goes to vault

[fringe gate]

Hmmmm, this works. I think that in this case we as community could submit a few item-types that would be purchased. I am thinking about how Destiny made microtransactions a thing but then said it is ONLY for cosmetics. Otherwise pay to win mechanics, land owners yada yada yada. Combine it with “leasing” the land and we should have a stabile environment

Thing is, for fuel to be important enough you should be able to swap it for sILV to buy other stuff. Just cosmetics does not really work imho

[ivory vine]

Why shouldn't cosmetics alone not be enough in your opinion? Just look at the revenue of things like League of Legends of Fortnite. Where do they get they revenue from? Cosmetics because people are willing to pay. And that is without really owning that stuff 🙂

[bitter glade]

So there are these things called “percentages”. And they are super cool because they allow for things other than “all” or “nothing”. 😂

So let’s say that we want land owners to get 12.45% of the revenue. We can do that. You want 4.63%? Sure. 34%? Also doable.

So it will be up to the council to work out “what is a good amount of the revenue to go to land owners”

[mortal merlin]

If the vast majority of token stakers dont own and operate a land, what keeps them to say they want 0% to go to land owner?

[alpine cove]

If a whale buys a plot with million dollar then he also holds large amounts of ilv he is getting basically for way lower than what we see

If revenues are shared

It would be good if we don’t share revenue and burn ilv instead

[prime arrow]

Would be cool if the land manufactures the fuel and when someone buys fuel from them we get our transaction fees.

[bitter glade]

Seems like an incredibly unlikely assumption. But here are some reasons they would be smart to not do that:

1. Land holders have to trade to be efficient. This generates revenue that goes directly to the vault.
2. If land has a non 0% share, the land sale will be larger. All land sale goes to the vault.
3. If they get 0% they would not supply any fuel. Which would mean the rate of consumption in game would outstrip supply, and prices would go up.
4. Land building takes time, months and months in fact. If you want to accelerate that you can pay ETH fees to do so, and that goes to the vault.

Is it possible that there are a bunch of people out there that won't buy land and then vote to do something that will hurt them even more? Absolutely. Do I think most people are that silly? No.

I also think that we will get the land ratios right, and most people will get some land and be happy with it. I also think that there will be a very strong correlation between land holders and token holders.

Thought of in another way, land NFT is just a gamified ILV token. And fuel is just sILV.

[mortal merlin]

We already invested in ILV for that reason tho.

I'll wait to see the full mechanic once again.

Aaron tends to be able to convince me sometimes hahaha let's see

[ivory vine]

I'm not fully convinced in a blindly following way but I have to admit that his last comment did at least come with input that I can use to get behind of it more easily 🙂 But yeah, I'd also wait for the "final proposal" before making a call here.

[slow cedar]

Land has to generate something useful for the game or it holds no value. If 5% of all fuel (in game currency) comes from a mini game, you'll hardly even feel it - but then that land has a clear value. If you make X Fuel valued at Y, then you can start to value lands based on ROI - which starts to make pricing for the land sale more clear which benefits the DAO.

If all fuel only came via the mini game I'd oppose it hard. If only some does? Cool beans

[bitter glade]

As always, if everyone wanted we could just make land completely irrelevant and just an NFT to collect, with a game attached. That would put it ahead of a lot of land NFTs

I think what a lot of people are scared of here is 'this sounds good, but I want land' 😛

My plan definitely involves putting aside some land for early adopters.

I'm not sure if people remember how I define that.

But I'll put it all on the table on Sunday for those that don't remember.

My suggestion would be that the land price is exponential (through scarcity) but the growth in supply is linear. That puts more power in the hands of the many, than the few.

And if you guys don't like it you can just tell me to piss off. I won't be offended. 😛

[little wagon]

As ‘promised’, when I am staking the ilv token I get a piece of 100% of ingame generated revenue. With the new suggested fuel, i’d like to see the economic model from @bitter glade with this mini-game, and then so that the revenue doesn’t get diluted or less fast generated by implementing the minigame. When making an economic system in front of the economic system of the main game makes it idifficult for me to see how this will work out without divided revenue over the two systems.

[bitter glade]

The idea is that the small loss in rev share is more than made up for by the sale price + trade of resources and fuels and micro transactions to speed up building.

Nothing changes without approval, so don't worry about that. It is just my opinion that by doing what I am suggesting the revenue a person gets from staking ILV now will be larger than if we didn't do it.

I'd happily give up 5% of a pie that is 125% bigger or more. But I dunno, maybe others don't think so?

Plus, you'd have a way cooler and more dynamic ecosystem.

[ivory vine]

Sounds all reasonable to me so far with the additional explanations here. Very interested in the proposal itself to have everything put together and more easily to evaluate.

[bitter glade]

Keen in mind it's far easier for me if we DON'T do it. But it is my duty to try and make sure everything is as good as it can be. And if everyone looks at it and doesn't want it, that's fine.

PS: I probably won't be a land owner. So I'm definitely not doing it for myself.

[little wagon]

@bitter glade I totally like the idea of the mini game, but I definatly want to see it all worked out. I have no problem of giving up 5% on one side to generate 125% on the other side, but for me I need to see it worked out to understand.

[hidden locust]

I play Upland and the amounts of land people keep paying for pieces of land seems borderless, it isn't capped to 150x30 animals. If that land would generate x (in this case fuel?), could it be made so it wouldnt matter too much if a whale purchases 1 big plot of land or 1000 newbies who purchases smaller pieces? And that if you put it on the NFT it wont explode too much in price because of that "passive" gain?

I'm not that rich, but there are people out there who have no problem spending 25k in a heartbeat, how do you cater to them? Just invest in ILV?

I love the idea that you don't need to pay 5k in the basegame to start, but perhaps you can do something with the minigame to attract the whales everybody is "scared" of ruining the game

If you make it worth it, whales usually pay for themselves

[vivid wharf]

I was just thinking about ways to further leverage the mini-game/land. If we created cross-game bonuses/collaboration via the mini game, it could be a driver for people towards Illuvium, and could potentially steer the mini-game to be relevant for games outside the Illuvium ecosystem. A simple example could be something like if you park a few Axies on your land, you get some kind of bonus. It could get very interesting if it resulted in mini-game fuel being used as a resource in other games. With some interesting incentives & network effect I believe that could be possible.

[mortal merlin]

Interesting approach for the land supply

I like what I read

[fringe gate]

Maybe have a proportionate landdrop for everyone in balancer, first to stake, staked for 365 days? That would take the heat off arguments about not getting « promised RevDis ». Honestly I don’t care I’ll buy in, but I can see how others on that category would feel

[little wagon]

The mini-game won’t be ‘MINI’ when it turns out to be the main source of generated fuel for all the games that will follow...... think about that when it comes out and you are thinking of aping in...

[wind briar]

So only apes ?

[fringe gate]

Ironic comment with that name, but a lot of us did not ape in because we understand tokenomics and such

[little wagon]

So only apes ?
@wind briar maybe one or two sheeps too

[bitter glade]

Shapes.

[fringe gate]

Stealing this

[mortal merlin]

I understand tokenomics and such and I still locked 52 weeks hahaha

[fringe gate]

Hahaha I meant more we did it BECAUSE. Same as we might with the mini-game once we see full proposal

[undone ginkgo]

sooo is the mini-game already in the works? or still being designed?

i was reading the GDD and wasn't sure if the Development Phase schedule was real or not

[wind briar]

The idea will be proposed to the council in a week or 2 before development start( if it gets approved).

If council says no, it won’t be developed

[undone ginkgo]

thanks!

[idle cosmos]

Just when I got my hopes high that will be one of the few games that don't prioritize cosmetics, you landed me back to earth.

I'm seriously torn between the options of earning 1) as a potential grinder, 2) as a potential hodler, 3) as a potential guild leader...

[gray rampart]

Im somehow glad there is a very healthy discussion between the community and the devs here compared to Cryptoblades 🙂

[ivory vine]

I said no where that cosmetics should be prioritized 😉 I just highlighted the fact that cosmetics alone indeed can drive incredible revenue

[idle cosmos]

I mean, the decision to allow betting crypto on game outcomes (Leviathan) is quite committal in terms of non-compliance with the world's governments. So I thought would just go full-on cryptoanarchist and let people gamble with whichever game items they want as long as it's viable from the software engineering standpoint.

I mean, if land ownership doesn't translate into higher winrates in Leviathan, then I personally won't be interested in buying land. NFA.

[amber atlas]

as it is pitched now Land ownership will give you a way to generate resources which allow you to craft items which will assist you with building your Illuvial collection and thus (indirectly) provide advantages in Leviathan ... but you can always just spend money to get those same things

[fallow oxide]

This mini-game and the discussion around it is really getting me excited. The wait is going to seem so long!

[hollow rose]

same here

[ivory bough]

@hollow sage you can find all the links in #🔗〕helpful-links

[hollow sage]

am i blind or there is no link about the minigame there?

[ivory bough]

check the pinned message

top right

[hollow sage]

i can only see that message but there is link how to buy, website, twitter, article medium and etc

[ivory bough]

there are two messages there: here #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[hollow sage]

there is only one message by Danny | Illuvium so this one u linked me know its not there idk if im stupid or not

but thanks

[ivory bough]

there is a file there (SPOILER)

@hollow sage

click on it

[hollow sage]

i have it now but only from your link there is no link to that in the helpful links room

[ivory bough]

helpful links are for staking and the mediums

[hollow sage]

oh fck i clicked for pin message in the helpful links room thought that there is the mini game link sorry....

[bitter glade]

The tokenomics will be available soon. It’s done but just getting some internal eyes on it.

[slow cedar]

Do you have unity devs on standby to begin, or will you need to spend time recruiting some once the mini game gets the green light?

[bitter glade]

We have a dev and an artist on standby. To begin we won’t need more than that as we are just building the prototype.

[fallow igloo]

Is there any idea on what the pricing would potentially look like for land? or any kind of bundling for different land types? ( If that's even something being considered.)

[arctic grove]

Privately owned land would be sick if it were incorporated

[vivid cipher]

I mean it'll be priced by the open market

[bitter glade]

Unless we decide to have fixed prices.

[vivid cipher]

Of course DAO could go that route too

[pseudo fiber]

where are the discussions on land pricing/quantity being held? would like to read up if i missed out on it somewhere

[vivid cipher]

In here. But nothing yet really

Aaron will share the full proposal soon I think.

[pseudo fiber]

cool, looking forward to reading

[dusky ledge]

soon ™

[bitter glade]

My proposal doesn't include exact numbers. But I will do that after gauging from the community where we are at on the whole structure. I'm proposing a document that goes into reasonable depth of the tokenomics of how it all works.

[bitter glade]

Well it's already done, just waiting on some internal feedback.

[wary sand]

I'm just hoping the land for the mini-game isn't absolutely ludicrous in price.

[hollow oak]

like axie land or gala land?

100,000 k for a single land lol

[wary sand]

Yeah...like...I'm hoping it's affordable even for small plebs like myself. The discord isn't super popular, and I'm guessing the people who actually read about the mini-game is even less so.

[hollow oak]

We just have to be early gang

[wary sand]

I mean tbh, everyone here now is definitely early gang. The only comparison I have is Axie, last idk...October?

Actually before because the game isn't even out yet.

[hollow oak]

still alpha

even this game is closer to launch then axie

[wary sand]

I...suppose you're right actually. As weird as that is...I wonder if there's a case for Illuvium to quickly over-take Axie. I mean Axie has had a working product out for a year now nearly...we have nothing so far. Not public. Once we do though...idk, I'm betting this becomes bigger anyways just because barrier to entry is low and potential to earn will only go up and up as more players hop on theoretically. There will always be a way to make money on illuvium just depends what strat you go with

[hollow oak]

Yeah and they are planing on more games

can't get any better :P

[wary sand]

You're right, seems like a good time to buy like 10 ILV

[hollow oak]

3 years and don't have the axie land yet

[wary sand]

Wait...Axie has been out 3 years? I thought it was new? Why all the growth so recently then? Youtubers?

[hollow oak]

Because of the ronin blockchain with 0 fees - and the play to earn was not always there

[grizzled helm]

Axie is ancient lol

[wary sand]

Huh...so the pay to play thing is what's catching traction? Well, I mean...looking at the team I don't see how everything they touch can't thrive. Especially because we have the 0 fee thing to begin with. Illuvium team, not Axie.

[hollow oak]

Yeah axies boost came from first play to earn implement and then the 0 fees - before it was not worth it to sell axies the fee were so expensive

[gilded jasper]

Wanna play this so bad it looks insane

[hollow oak]

I think we all do!!!

[gilded jasper]

Lol ya probably

But i wanna play really bad

[wary sand]

Well there will be a f2p mini game potentially, is what I've been led to believe. But those also don't have earning potential. Or, at least has less earning potential if I've understood correctly. Because you can still trade I think.

[grizzled helm]

Aaron will release updates soon

[hollow oak]

I think they will have earning potential because people categorized them as "land" and if that is so - they could bloom in price

[wary sand]

Just finished reading the mini-game white paper the rest of the way. It's really quite interesting. I'm excited to see how the Game theory and free market place actually pans out. Let alone the real estate game of the possible update. Man, things just keep getting better and better.

[pure shard]

Are there any NFTs to buy as of now?

[grizzled helm]

!opensea

[dry forge]

Collectible Illuvium NFT's are already available on Opensea https://opensea.io/assets/illuvium All are limited edition. The emotes and m0z4rt skin NFT's are redeemable in game. Upon use, these NFT's will be burnt when applied in game. This is only true for these emote's and skins as they were bonuses for the initial ILV token sale.

There is also a partner set of very limited collectible NFT's such as the Spartan Squizz for partnering with Synthetix (SNX) https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/134273 Those collectibles are not for in game use, this is so everyone has a fair and balanced start when the game is released.

[grizzled helm]

!promonft

[dry forge]

The first collectible promo NFT's in order of release:
Spartan Squizz, Uniswap Rhamphy, Barnbridge Dash, ChainLink Alphie, Scoot Scarabok, Sushiswap Atlas, Whamphurr. https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/134273 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/180095 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/159618 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/180225 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/365114 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/408817 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/520030 https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/507040

[torn seal]

do i get it right that you will be able to buy land as soon as mini game launches (if it launches) to mine resources? if so, will it even be possible to buy land for none whales? if not, how you will be able to mine? a lot of „if“s though 😄 thanks lads, appreciate.

[ivory vine]

plot number, plot price, type of plot sale..all that still to be determined if the mini-game is approved 🙂

[torn seal]

alright. you know where i can find the mini game whitepaper?

[ivory vine]

Pinned message in this channel

[torn seal]

there is just a short message from aaron with 5 bullet points

Got it 🙈🙈🙈 sorry

[frigid sierra]

These plots of land, would be used in main game ?

[ivory vine]

Land = mini game.The GDD in pinned messages says everything there is to know so far. More details to follow soon 🙂

[bitter glade]

Ok I got the approval from the internal peeps. Next the.... mods....

https://tenor.com/view/wade-scared-nervous-nail-biting-gif-13259118

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/bubbles-trailer-park-boys-shock-gif-5615804

This’ll be me folks

[wind briar]

https://tenor.com/view/illjust-wait-here-spongebob-waiting-lonely-coffee-gif-11704829

[candid elk]

How about including the (currently) 119 Rangers because I’m curious as hell 😆

[wind briar]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-patience-cat-cute-pets-gif-5544229

[hollow oak]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-patience-you-must-have-patience-gif-15254127

[candid elk]

https://tenor.com/view/give-me-give-it-to-me-now-gif-6486247

[bitter glade]

Let's just say I am trying to make it balanced

[hollow oak]

Yeah it sounds exciting when Kieran talked about on the interview with CAGYJAN

[slow cedar]

Include the rangers :D

Extra eyes can never be a bad thing after internal approval

[hollow oak]

They will probably not share it with us because of a lot of things

untill launch

[slow cedar]

With the GDD we got eyes on soon after the council as the DAO needs to approve still

[bitter glade]

Yeah they only had a day or so advantage. It depends on how much they complain to me. 😛

But the process of allowing me to:

1. Go nuts
2. Get an internal check
3. Get a second wider internal check
4. Get mod feedback
5. Get community feedback

ensures that things are well thought out.

[vivid cipher]

Honestly guys it makes sense because Aaron won’t be online all the time and the chance of a mod being online will be way higher. So if there are questions that come up we mods will have already gotten most of those answered from Aaron already. I think this workflow worked fine for the first GDD post.

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-crying-baby-crying-gif-5943733

[candid elk]

The process makes complete sense, I’m just curious as hell. Because everything that comes from the team, in this case Aaron, is quality work, so I’m looking forward to digging into more content

[slow cedar]

Ahhh, I'd thought it was just the council. Mods is a lot bigger list than I'd thought!

[viral star]

https://tenor.com/view/let-me-in-eric-andre-wanna-come-in-gif-13730108

https://tenor.com/view/so-excited-baby-cute-adorable-bath-gif-15061321

Sorry had to try out my new found Ranger abilities 😅

[arctic grove]

So is it worth reading through all the whitepaper for the mini-game @wary sand ?

[bitter glade]

Yes. New York Time best seller.

[arctic grove]

Oh well you dont say 😌

Yo @bitter glade quick question, and this is purely opinion based cuz idrk if there is a right answer, but do you think that the best group of people to test an open-beta would be people with a lot of experience in this type of game or just noobs that run around and find random bugs, or a healthy mix of both lol

[brisk gull]

I don't want to answer for Aaron, I just want to participate to the discussion. My guess would be that no matter if the beta testers have a lot of experience or not with this type of game, it better be people that can provide a really good feedback and suggestions related to bugs or new features to be added. By looking into the discord, we can already know who would fit well as a beta tester.

[bitter glade]

I will be looking for people that are observant, and are able to systematically document their workflows.

And people who don’t look like this

[ivory vine]

Just a minor clarification from my side: Open beta is more or less launch for ILV. Closed/private beta is the one with an invite requirement 🙂

[viral star]

I do this for a living currently! Just sayin ✌️

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/sifting-joshua-weissman-powder-cheese-powder-shaking-gif-18351179

[arctic grove]

Yea thats a good point. You want people that can dedicate a lot of time.

[arctic grove]

Solid answer

[bitter glade]

Actually my first criteria is people who own an Archie 1 of 1 series NFT.

And give it to me.

[arctic grove]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-cry-crying-baby-crying-cute-gif-11860264

[hollow oak]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-tuff-solluminati-gif-12085257

[wind briar]

https://tenor.com/view/taking-notes-write-down-notes-writing-memo-gif-17395025

[mortal merlin]

[pure whale]

do we keep everything we earn in the open beta? or does it get wiped?

[cosmic aspen]

open beta yes
closed beta is wiped

[wary sand]

open beta is release.

[opaque veldt]

Wdym @wary sand

We keep?

[wary sand]

I mean, "open beta" is literally release.

It's being considered an open beta, but it IS the release for the game essentially. It's just going to be a game that gets improved upon with time. With more content, more illuvials, etc

[opaque veldt]

Ohhhh so no official launch / reset

[wary sand]

Yeah basically everyone will be able to play in Q4

[arctic grove]

sadge

[plush turtle]

I'm willing to be a sacrifice for this mini-game. Haha. I work from home and I'm lazy.

[wary sand]

Yeah I'm currently thinking about the mini-game myself. I KNOW I'll be playing it for sure. Not sure how I want to go about making money on it though.

I intend to be all in on the Illuvial universe. Seeing as how getting a job with them is ridiculously unlikely

[vivid cipher]

The issue is are we talking about the main game or the minigame. The mini game may need to have a wipe but there won't be any in game purchases made before the wipe. So it'll be like an introductory time anyways

[torn seal]

play the mini game or real game? if so the mini game would need to come around quite quick?

[wary sand]

I'm playing both for sure. They both look insanely fun and the game theory on the mini-game will be quite something hopefully

[sly leaf]

What will be the length of the mini game I wonder???

[little moon]

When does the mini game drop?

[ivory vine]

It isn't approved yet. Tokenomics GDD coming soon to be discussed.

[wary sand]

Oh oops I thought it was approved by council already

[vivid cipher]

The one proposed is pinned. And is a building game… so would be pretty long to complete all buildings. And that could easily be extended. Just add another few levels of upgrades. But it has some other cool features proposed too.

[wind briar]

Like what

https://tenor.com/view/fishing-beach-waves-wait-alone-gif-16439075

[hollow oak]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-confusion-cat-white-cat-im-confusion-gif-16828447

[wind briar]

im baiting

[hollow sage]

is there any requirement to play in closed beta? Need to have some ILV token or need to have high mmorpg knowledge is there any way to sign up right now?:

actually i wanted to ask this not about the mini game

[wary sand]

There's a discord channel literally labeled "beta-test-request" you tell me

[hollow oak]

okay next time go into #❓❗〕community-help - but you can't sign up atm - Only show that you want to in #795444126421483520

[wary sand]

As far as the requirements, it's just going to be a hand picked small amount of people. As far as I can tell. Most likely will be active people from the discord because that would make sense.

[hollow oak]

You need to fill out a form and they will chose

[slow cedar]

Are we allowed to ask the mods what their overall impression is of the new info? I am keen for any snippets of info they can provide, or even an overall gut feeling on it

[wary sand]

I don't think they have info we don't, I could be wrong though. We have access to the GDD too I thought?

[slow cedar]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

This one. Internal eyes on it were positive, so mods are now looking over the newest info

[mortal merlin]

It looks good

[wind briar]

O ? any details

[grizzled helm]

Aaron is a genius. that is all

[wind briar]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-fisher-fishing-gif-13828391

[bitter glade]

I'll put it out tomorrow for you to see.

Sorry for not always keeping you guys informed. I really wish I could be there are so many things each day that can subtly change things.

[wind briar]

I really don't mind waiting. Just trying to poke some fun at the mods lol. I have also now realized my feedback is tainted with how much I love ILV so far.

[cobalt zinc]

Hey guys, just read the GDD of Illuvium Zero! Looking really fun so I've got a few questions, most of them starting with WHEN (which I assume are the hardest ones?) but I'll ask anyway 😄

When will the land sales happen?
When will the game itself launch?

Approximations and best guesses are welcome if there arent any dates that I've missed somewhere 😄

[ivory vine]

There is a whole list with estimated dates on page 6 in that GDD 🙂 In general though, while we probably can expect an approval, the mini-game still has to be approved by the council first. So final dates are not possible to be made anyway right now.

[cobalt zinc]

Oh, I must have scrolled through that somehow O.o thank you!

[weak tendon]

Hey everyone! I just had a question about the ability to play the mini game on Mac OS? Hopefully this isn’t a stupid question 😅

[icy halo]

When is the mini game out?

[ivory vine]

There is a rough estimate on page 6 in the GDD. In general though, the mini game is not approved yet, so that has to happen first

[arctic grove]

So the mini game is gonna be a mobile game?

[slow cedar]

That's the plan, so you can do stuff on pc or phone

[amber atlas]

the GDD has a tentative schedule, but as pointed out by @ivory vine they (the milestones) will need to be adjusted to reflect the date when the proposal is (hopefully) approved...

[fluid cedar]

hi what is this mini game everyone is talking about

im curious

[wary sand]

check out the pinned. can read the GDD

[ocean hollow]

wheres the form

[cosmic aspen]

there is no form yet

[weak sail]

@wary sand Thanks for the tip

awesome and fun read

[wary sand]

It should be really really interesting to see what happens.

[bitter glade]

I was going to post it now

but I lost the same PDF

lol

[blazing briar]

got it lol

[bitter glade]

https://tenor.com/view/critical-role-crit-role-cr-arsequeef-undeadwood-gif-15394386

[blazing briar]

https://tenor.com/view/fedora-tips-tips-fedora-phone-hey-gif-19469302

[opaque veldt]

Damn this whitepaper is sick

[bitter glade]

It's not my best work, but there's some fun ideas in there.

[opaque veldt]

It's good work Aaron

[mortal merlin]

[arctic grove]

Question, when land goes on sale will it cost ETH or ILV

It may answer it lol havent finished reading

[opaque veldt]

Yes it looks like it. Read on :)

[sand flower]

So i just read that PDF. Does Illuvium Zero already exist? also when were the dawn badges given out?

or is that just a concept?

[grizzled helm]

!opensea

[dry forge]

Collectible Illuvium NFT's are already available on Opensea https://opensea.io/assets/illuvium All are limited edition. The emotes and m0z4rt skin NFT's are redeemable in game. Upon use, these NFT's will be burnt when applied in game. This is only true for these emote's and skins as they were bonuses for the initial ILV token sale.

There is also a partner set of very limited collectible NFT's such as the Spartan Squizz for partnering with Synthetix (SNX) https://opensea.io/assets/0xd07dc4262bcdbf85190c01c996b4c06a461d2430/134273 Those collectibles are not for in game use, this is so everyone has a fair and balanced start when the game is released.

[junior depot]

Amazing. When will this "shared pool" happen?

[grizzled helm]

Illuvium Zero will go through the approval process with the Council

[sand flower]

Got it got it. had fomo for a sec lol

[grizzled helm]

Ive had FOMO since March

[vague briar]

I hope the Illuvium team can set up a system to prevent bots or whales from taking everything, so that everyone has a chance at getting a piece of land.

Something akin to a lottery system for shoe drops (like the Chico giveaway we have now) or an application style where you submit a form containing a short message as to why you think you should have the opportunity to buy a land.

Maybe this can include other details such as a link to your Discord profile, to help check if your story coincides with your post history.

[grizzled helm]

dw

[sand flower]

Lol i been loosely following since march but wish i had followed more intently... not sure if i spelled that correct haha

[grizzled helm]

lol

[sand flower]

Similar to the badges you mean?

Mentioned in the PDF orionmango sent

[blazing briar]

it will not 100% be badges so don't speculatively buy floor on opensea

[wary sand]

hmm I read the GDD it was quite interesting.

[sand flower]

lol yeah I had to ask if this was an actual thing yet or not but Wade straightened me out

[vague briar]

Sorry, I missed this at the very end. But would it only apply to those who bought ILV during the balancer sale?

[bitter glade]

So the idea with this is that these things can be turned on whenever we want. There are many good points raised by the mods (that aren't reflected in the docs). But we could make this game be just a standalone game for the next 3-6 months and THEN turn this on after that. We want to make sure we get the blockchain elements right. And there are some things going on behind the scenes that might allow us to do some cool things. So my opinion is this: Get the GAME part done first. And then get ready to hook it up to something. And only hook it up to something really good. If that takes time, then so be it.

[wary sand]

I think the mini-game will definitely have some whales purchasing crap tons of land...I'm not a whale so, maybe I'll be able to get a few T1 plots lol.

[sand flower]

Is there any fear of different games being added that takes away from the volume seen on the main illuvium?

[bitter glade]

NOTICE Nothing in this document is final. If you go buy a Dawnlight badge and then later that isn't used to whitelist, that is on you. These are just proposals and ideas. The mods have already said the Dawnlight whitelist might not be the best, and I tend to agree. But it's at least a conversation starter.

[blazing briar]

yeah we kinda had this discussion when the game first got proposed but it's inevitably gonna happen. Good thing is if you own ILV you get to share in profits from whales aping

[junior depot]

Maybe a test server perhaps checking if everything is in order

[bitter glade]

I'm aiming for T -1

[wary sand]

T-1 provides a lot of low-risk chances of being bought out for some whale to make a mega-city at least.

[bitter glade]

For me, not even a little bit. The City Builder has entirely separate mechanics. Different crowd. And even if someone said 'I will now play IZ instead of Illuvium', all the revenue goes through the vault so token holders shouldn't be worried.

What we are trying to do is get a universe that is designed by the best people in the world, and have it all work seamlessly. Sort of like Enjin, but more controlled.

[sand flower]

Sweet. I figured it had all been thought out but just curious on your thoughts

[bitter glade]

If Enjin is Microsoft we are going down the Apple route.

[wary sand]

Universe eh? Does that mean we can look forward to a sort of...SPORE type of game?

[bitter glade]

I meant Tier Negative One.

[bitter glade]

No but there is a Spore affinity?

[arctic grove]

SPORE is a great game

[wary sand]

Fair. I was just trying to figure out what other future games could be in the making lol.

[arctic grove]

Also, saw that the current idea is 1k for T1 land. Seems like kinda a lot but thats just cuz im a shrimp. Any chance that would change?

[wind briar]

Can’t we use addresses that qualify for badge in the BLP instead of looking at current badge holders ? Badges have changed hands recently, wonder how much of the early backers still hold

[junior depot]

I like this idea because it gives more utility for sILV token - "If token holders wanted to instigate a massive burn rate of sILV we could easily allow sILV to be used to purchase Land. This would allow current token holders to be rewarded for their position by leveraging their existing staked tokens. As with all revenue in sILV, these transactions would be in lieu of ETH payment, but as this would be an exclusive reward for existing staked token holders it seems entirely tenable and possibly
preferable. The main purpose would be to allow a use case for sILV, and further lower the supply of ILV"

[wary sand]

I think if this DAO ends up in any way as successful as say, Activision which is the goal...I uh, well anyone with over like 10 ILV will be sitting pretty...very pretty.

[wind briar]

What is stopping me from purchasing all the silver and bronze badges and putting them in separate wallets

[blazing briar]

this was brought up by mods. it's unlikely we will use just straight up badge holding wallets

[grizzled helm]

Screenshot from balancer potentially?

[bitter glade]

What I said to the mods was that if someone sold it to make a quick buck, then it's not really the same. That being said they would be able to buy it back now.

Either way I don't think Dawnlight is the way to go but it's an option.

[wind briar]

Do you guys still have the list of addresses that qualified for the NFTs?

[bitter glade]

The fixed price would be for those whitelisted. Then there would be an auction for the rest. It could technically go for cheaper.

But yeah, price could change. It's up to the DAO. The DAO makes all the revenue off this, they probably don't want it to be sold for cheaper than it has to.

[bitter glade]

Nothing except funds.

[bitter glade]

Yep.

But if you buy them all, and then we don't use that, don't get angry at me. 😛

[wind briar]

Lol it’s ok it’s better than buying Jeff’s stoner cat

Interesting to start off with only 10% though.

[arctic grove]

Oh ok, unlikely but possible, thanks 🙂

[blazing briar]

hmm is it better to start at 10% and possibly never release some land or to start at 100% and have no wiggle room? would less people buy in thinking supply will get diluted? or better to keep potential accessibility open?

[slow cedar]

So if 100k plots were sold at $1000 each (clearly higher tier go for more, but let's ignore that for now) that's $10m to the DAO. Realistically it's likely 50% extra or more than that. That's a serious cash injection for ILV stakers

[wind briar]

Hmm I need to reread to fully grasp

[blazing briar]

no rush haha IIP not even up yet

[south forge]

Is this correct @bitter glade ?

Not so much the numbers but portion of the land sale goes to ILV stakers

[cosmic aspen]

all of it does

[south forge]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-spongebob-squarepants-wow-mindblown-gif-13169052

This is the greatest crypto I’ve ever bought

[junior depot]

I thought I was the only one.

[static raptor]

I'm not sure a whitelist with below market prices is good for the token or revdivs or community growth. Hopefully anyone voting on a proposal is thinking about what is best for the game and not whether or not they have a badge

[slow cedar]

It's a DAO baby. We vote on what happens, then get the profits when it does happen

[slow cedar]

I didn't see anything about below market value (but may have missed it). I thought it was just a whitelist to be sure if someone wanted ownership they could get one, but at fixed market price

[static raptor]

Fixed is not market price

[slow cedar]

The fixed $1000 for t1 land. I assume t1 lands are all whitelisting enables you to buy

[static raptor]

Maybe, not sure, but if t1s would normally go for 2k then it's below market price.

[slow cedar]

Agreed. My impression was all t1's go for the same fixed price

Whitelist should enable you to buy if you want, not buy cheaper

[south forge]

Once people start getting revdis from the mini game it’s a game changer for ILV token.. then it becomes real

Not “I might get some rev share from this is 7 months time”

[vivid cipher]

I’m more worried about the FUEL economy than the Land sale. The land sale can be figured out a few different ways and still be fine. The fuel… that’s gotta be right and stay right.

Or get fixed later I guess.

[wary sand]

nah you're 100% right. That HAS to be right, or fixed very very quickly. It's the main thing in the game everyone will be doing constantly, if that feels bad...it's not good,

[slow cedar]

One thing I really like is that fuel is essentially an in game currency people will want. I'd been wondering for a while what the reward plans are for tournaments in 5+ years when the ILV has all been distributed. Giving fuel rewards too could stretch the ILV rewards over a longer period, and people can use it in game straight away (or swap it if they don't want it)

[vivid cipher]

If folks start claiming tons of sILV because they can trade it for FUEL and then trade that FUEL for ETH what does that do to the game economy? Or ILV price (don’t think it would effect it actually but I don’t know for sure)?

[slow cedar]

It'd up ILV price, as every SILV minted is an ILV that will never be minted

[vivid cipher]

Except that’s dealing with FDV which is not a short term thing anyways but yeah.

[slow cedar]

If I get an SILV instead of ILV then at that specific point in time, there's 1 less ILV than there could have been, so everyone else at that specific time is getting a higher % of rewards than they would have been. Don't need to wait to see the results

[vivid cipher]

But if this swapped for ETH just gets pulled from the game so folks can reinvest their ILV staking rewards somewhere else… I mean we can’t stop that anyways but it’s slowed down by the ILV reward lockup currently.

[south forge]

So hypothetically.. 100k plots sold.. money to vault… vault buys ILV… distributes to token holders?

[vivid cipher]

True the apy stays up longer. Good thought.

[slow cedar]

Yup, this

[vivid cipher]

Yeah I remember getting to that point as well previously.

[south forge]

Alright.. that’s amazing

Price pressure plus rewards..

[slow cedar]

Not only apy, but there's 1 less ILV to get rev distributions

[wary sand]

the tokenomics on ILV is amazing. There will be TONS of people who choose sILV instead of ILV. So...that's going to be probably like 50% less ILV...which means half the supply...which means it'll jack the price when the game is already being shown to be extremely successful and profitable. Not to mention, much of the ILV will be locked for people to get rewards. The supply to this thing could get really low

[vivid cipher]

Only 3million of the total 10million could ever be claimed as sILV. And I think it won’t be that many.

[ivory vine]

When it comes to creating the whitelist for the land sale I would prefer and suggest a combination of X ILV tokens locked for Y weeks. . Not only would this have a positive impact on the token because more people will buy into it, but due to the locking requirement (which should not be too close to the full 52 weeks) a lot of people would be introduced to what the 100% revenue distribution really is all about.

Some might think early on "I buy quickly, stake for enough rewards, then sell what I bought" just to be whitelisted but having claimed rewards sitting there as a result, they will inevitably stay somewhat invested in the DAO AND get introduced to the revenue distribution which could turn some/many to actual believers that might even buy in again for more.

[valid oyster]

Weight more on locking period sound great

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/bo-katan-this-is-the-way-the-mandalorian-katee-sackhoff-star-wars-gif-19179943

[junior depot]

Amazing

[candid elk]

It might just be me, but I am sort of torn between this sounding great and this sounding too complex for gamers wanting to play the game, but with no crypto experience. Of course it wouldn’t be an issue at all if the info in the IZ tokenomics pdf is not needed for people who just want to play the game for fun. Just thinking out loud, not too sure where I’m going with this

[candid elk]

Agreed

[vivid cipher]

For sure. I think this will just all be on the backend anyways. Whatever it looks like in the game it must be stone stupid simple for folks to get it. I mean if modding has taught me anything 🤣

[candid elk]

lol 😆

[slow cedar]

I think this sounds great, or even a combo of both. The badges as proposed plus your staking idea. There's nothing to stop a whitelist containing two sets of data

[vivid cipher]

Facts

[candid elk]

But yeah, I just see Illuvium as such an amazing game studio and I believe some awesome games will come from it, but of course awesome AAA games already exist. One of the things Illuvium will have over existing AAA games is the earning feature, so it would suck if there was a huge knowledge barrier for people who are new to crypto, to actually get into that part of the game

[slow cedar]

If we had badges or staking, it opens up the 'easy' option of "if you own a bade on X date, you're whitelisted" for those who don't understand staking - but they'll still need ethereum to buy the badge and land and all that entails

[candid elk]

I’m not thinking staking, investing, buying land, etc. I’m solely thinking about gamers coming from mainstream games and how they would experience the earning feature of the games being developed by illuvium. Like, do they need to be familiar with all the crypto jargon? Or would it be enough that there is a small fiat on-ramp for fuel and they know there is a marketplace where they can sell stuff they earn in game. <— not saying this should be the case, just spitballing

The user friendliness of onboarding people not too familiar with crypto is a huge thing, I believe. Not sure if it is unrelated to tokenomics somehow though

[slow cedar]

I was 100% new to crypto before getting into some wax blockchain games for play to earn. The hardest part to wrap your head around is ethereum's gas fees. The layer 2 of IMX should mostly sort that out in my opinion

So I've only been in this ecosphere for a few months. I'd say that the mini game and illuvium has an easy an on ramp as you can possibly get.

[junior depot]

I hope there could be some YT for all these things once implemented lol

[candid elk]

That is fair, I myself am not really sure how the on-ramp will be yet as nothing has been approved and work hasn’t started. I’m sure the team will take it into consideration without me mentioning it, I just believe it is an important aspect to include in the discussion of the mini game, as well as other games to come of course

[bitter glade]

Yes. The treasury has tokens too and so the treasury gets to earn some as well. But the treasury is used to fund the game, that the DAO owns. So yeah.

[bitter glade]

Lower the value of fuel and increase the value of ILV. The Dao could then lower the supply of fuel and bring back up the price of fuel.

Revenue in this period would drop but that’s what happens already when sILV is used instead of ETH. You guys would effectively be paying yourself.

[south forge]

This is great.

[bitter glade]

1million in game rewards COULD be turned into sILV rewards.

[pseudo fiber]

interesting, didnt know that. that would decrease the max supply of ILV even further

[bitter glade]

A gamer in Illuvium won’t care. Essentially fuel is sILV to them. It might make MORE sense.

Someone playing IZ would also know “I plays a game, I gets a monies”. Pretty simple.

[bitter glade]

It was Ami’s idea. I think it has merit.

[pseudo fiber]

yeah, the first issue from my view is it might lower the attractiveness of tournament prizes for the top competitors I guess, forces you to reinvest it in the game to catch stuff to sell.

while ILV that you could immediately cash out not only is more attractive to most people, but probably better from a marketing perspective as well

"i won a blockchain game tournament and bought a new car" vs "i won a blockchain tournament and had a lot more funds then traveled and caught illuvials for free in the game for 6 months"

[bitter glade]

For sure.

They could be configured though.

[static raptor]

i think it was only proposed as an option, get ilv or sILV

they choose

[pseudo fiber]

An additional trivial conclusion derived from this model is that a land holder should not actually own all the Fuel they produce, as they could avoid
the “Percentage Fee” by simply taking Fuel directly into Illuvium for consumption.

Can anyone clarify does this mean if the land owner decides to take the fuel into the main game, there will be no percentage fee haircut on the fuel their land produces? But players are also able to buy/sell fuel to the fuel/eth pool? (unless this is only a buy only interaction) If so, wouldn't they basically be able to circumvent the haircut taken by the DAO?

How much fuel is expected to be produced by land holders and the fuel tap compared to what is generated inside the main game?

also just want to say it looks like a great idea. with careful implementation, I could definitely seeing this mini game having significant value added and being worth the time and resources to develop. well done!

[slow cedar]

Question: in Kieran's Cagy interview he talks about owning plots of land all next to one another. Assuming this does get approval will we be able to select our land plots from a map? When we buy will they be a random one of the correct tier/zone?

[bitter glade]

It explains in that sentence. The fuel produced on your land would only be 10% owned by you.

[crystal ore]

If land sales were limited to one plot per day it would allow everyone to have an equal chance to obtain land, rather than whales coming in and buying it all up and pumping the price. Thoughts?

[pseudo fiber]

hmm, upon re-reading that makes sense, I think I was fixated on player selling into pool = revenue to DAO, player taking it into ILV main = nothing. thanks for clearing it up.

[potent dock]

That seems like a really good idea, though I'm not sure how you'd actually implement it. People could just set up new accounts/wallets to buy 1 land per acc/wallet per day as many times as they wanted, right?

[crystal ore]

Ture, but it would atleast limit it

[potent dock]

I like the idea of land not getting omegaswept by a whale a lot

Could tie it to in-game active time or something. Gotta play an hour to be able to buy land, something like that.

[crystal ore]

especially with if land can be joined together when next to each other and owned by the same person. It would add an element of stratergy to which land you buy, if you get a choice, like when you set up in a game of Risk

[odd pumice]

Rewarding people that put in the effort I like it. The whales can then just buy it off them. But giving the small people a chance first would really really good.

[bitter glade]

Not in game time. That just encourages bots. We are currently working out the details of in game yield. Which has the same issues. A lot of people don’t realise just how much value is swallowed up by bots in other games.

But whatever the mechanics, we can tie it to land.

[bitter glade]

Keep in mind this isn’t like most games. Here the vault distributes all revenue to stakers. So as long as you stake ILV any whale activity benefits you greatly.

[odd pumice]

That's true. I'm staking.

[bitter glade]

What I am trying to foster is the idea that we should all act to benefit the Dao. I get that people like the idea of voting for something that gives them a highly sought after asset for very little but that isn’t sustainable.

We build this into a juggernaut by having everyone working for each other.

[ivory vine]

Exactly why I'd suggest to tie whitelisting to long-term investments somehow because it pushes token price AND get's more people invested in the token as well as the DAO 🙂

[potent dock]

That makes sense, would just feel bad if land becomes available and is insta-grabbed by bots, hoarded and resold later. Still comes out as a fiscal win if you're staking, but it wouldn't feel good if you're looking to buy land for the play experience.

[slow cedar]

I think the key thing is, if land is sold for a specific price, then trying to add a mechanism which is hard to fudge (eg, stake xyz ILV) to be whitelisted to buy land works, as the DAO still makes the same money. If the DAO decided to go with auctions for everything then regardless, the DAO wins, as bots/whales buying drives up the price

[shrewd moon]

sorry but can anyone give me a brief explanation on what mini game is on illluvium,

[ivory vine]

Check the pinned messages for the GDDs 🙂

[shrewd moon]

Thx, btw ive seen you so often on discord what role do you play?

[candid pendant]

Lead Moderator I believe 😄

[ivory vine]

You can check roles to the right in the members list 🙂 I'm just a regular dude helping out 🙂

[shrewd moon]

respect to you 😄

[mortal merlin]

Lead to too many people on the whitelist tho no?

Cause everyone staking that claimed at least once already fill the requirement of X tokens locked more than 6 months

[ivory vine]

Vesting clearly shows under "Source" that it can be easily distinguished if a batch of staked ILV comes from "Rewards" or "Deposit". Just make it "Deposit" only and it's not an issue anymore 🙂

[mortal merlin]

This could be a solution yes

Idk if doable

[slow cedar]

If we're selling 100k lands, how many would be T1? 40k? I don't know if we have 40k unique people staking at the moment

[brisk gull]

I would buy 7 tbh

[slow cedar]

Not if you were limited to one each

Or an exponentially increasing cost per one you buy...

[brisk gull]

Yea! But if you're allowed to buy one only, it might be a tough decision to choose which region you want your land in.

[queen folio]

The exact nature of how this sale will take place is still not confirmed. But there was mention of having interested buyers being able to see where the land sits on the entire map... and possibly see which resource sites are available in that space. This way you know what it is you're buying and can better determine the value

[slow cedar]

Honestly, that'd be cool if that was the case.

[viral star]

I like the idea of combing whitelisting strategies.

1. Take a snapshot of people that are staking/in the pool and locked for a certain amount of time.

2. Badges.

Especially if an address can only be whitelisted once and there is some limit on how many an address can purchase - until auction that is!

Nice thing about this is it will reward early adopters, and newer people that have shown high conviction. All who might not be whales.

[pseudo fiber]

What are your thoughts on reserving land for early supporters vs benefiting the DAO as a whole? I read your idea was to guarantee land for people who had the dawnlight badges, which will give the early investors privileged access to land on top of the biggest staking rewards and token price gains. I get rewarding the OGs, but how do you balance that with the best interests of the DAO, where as you mentioned market priced activity (even if whale activity) feeds back to all stakers?

Would it be something like 1 t1 land per badge holder, something that only lets them establish a foothold, or would we allow a generous portion to go to the whitelist?

[slow cedar]

It's not just up to Aaron, it's up to the DAO in general, so if he made a proposal that you thought was terrible, and you gave reasonable arguments against it and got people to agree, it wouldn't happen

[pseudo fiber]

I don't think it's terrible. We see in land sales for many other games it's just bought up by whales and flipped for profit. A whitelist would (in theory) allow land to be used by people who truly support and are excited about using it in game, though there's also no guarantee it wouldn't get flipped, after all the dawnlight badges are being sold on opensea as well. I'd like to see everyone's opinions on it though, because it does seem like market price discovery in the form of auctions is what is "best for the DAO" as it allows for the maximum revenue in line with what the market is willing to pay.

[ivory vine]

I remain at my stance that the DAO is most important and so we should do anything for whitelisting that brings more people into this long-term.

[slow cedar]

I personally feel like if it was a case of "t1 land costs $1000" it sets a baseline for the other lands, and it'd get more people interested. An auction could be $20 or $20,000. This would help anchor the price to something

[pseudo fiber]

I read your proposal and it is the one I personally feel makes the most sense as well. Either that or pure free markets to maximize revenue for the DAO.

[slow cedar]

I agree that in my mind, if we do have fixed price, a double whitelist via badges + staked ILV that enables you to buy 1 t1 land is the way to go

If we don't have any sell at a fixed price it needs to all be auctioned, so no white list needed

[full dune]

Any idea how much land will cost?

[pseudo fiber]

i think the proposal was to start fixed around 1k usd for t1

[full dune]

What’s t1?

[vivid cipher]

Tier 1 probably out of 5 tiers

I think the two pinned GDDs discuss tiers

[queen folio]

Land costs will vary based on those tiers pelican mentioned and it's hard to speculate on price since the game hasn't been voted on yet, and the nature of the sale isn't confirmed. There's speculation of it possibly being an auction, in which case the price will be determined by however much someone bids on the land.

But a T1 plot of land may not be in the best location of the overall map or the land itself may have less resource sites available on it compared to T2+ plots of land, etc.

[full dune]

Ok thanks guys

I’ll get my $$ ready in the meantime

[odd pumice]

Gotcha. You're right, cooperation instead of competition.

Does someone know when the Land sale will happen? I think maybe next year 🤔

[vivid cipher]

Before the end of this year certainly

If it gets approved that is

[queen folio]

⬆️ Sounds like the team's aim, if the mini game is approved, is to have Illuvium: Zero out before the main Illuvium game... and land sale would happen before Illuvium: Zero is released.

[wind briar]

I think if we follow the math that chart gives we can have the auction for the high tier take place, then have a set price for the T1s based of it.

I agree with @static raptor we shouldn't do private sale to OGs for a mark down. It doesn't benefit the DAO.

So if T5 lands sell for average price of 100k, T1 would have a set price according to the curve

We could then allow stakers/OGs have first come first serve in the sale.

[astral folio]

im out of fiat xD and eth

[odd pumice]

Is Illuvium: Zero the official mini game name? Which would be the building buildings/ mining resources etc. game?

[astral folio]

everything lock

[odd pumice]

I've got ETH left, but fiat is super dried up xD

[astral folio]

use all my eth in SPL

SLP *

[queen folio]

Yup! At least, as per the Game Design Document 🙂

[odd pumice]

Cool and thx 👌

[wind briar]

Also I didn't mention this but I am in approval of sILV to used to buy minigame

its burn coin season

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-fire-burn-gif-5103666

[grizzled helm]

https://media.giphy.com/media/TwRmYb5lThIGpp52Nw/giphy.gif

[ivory vine]

https://tenor.com/view/supernatural-spn-jensen-ackles-dean-winchester-i-support-that-gif-5204032

[vivid cipher]

This idea looks pretty good.

[queen folio]

I may or may not have held off on claiming rewards...
Itching to know how it's all going to go down

[wind briar]

Thanks, your payment will be sent to you shortly.

[vivid cipher]

0x…

[dry forge]

This is a reminder to never give out your private key (12 to 24 word seed phrase) to anyone. Nobody in the team will ever ask you to send ETH.

There has been increasing activity of DMs in this Discord related to scams and fake giveaways. Any giveaways/promotions will be announced on official channels. Not in Discord DMs. #🚨❗〕report-scammers in the linked section with a screenshot of the message you got in DM's.
Also include the "@ username" in text and we will ban them.

We are growing fast and there are targeted scams going around. Only trust links from official channels.

[astral folio]

just making sure boys ! sILV is not lock when we claim it right ?!

so it add the value of one ILV in term of value but not lock ?

even if you cant trade it or sell it right now you are not lock so if i dont have anymore fiat or eth exemple i might be able to still buy stuff with my reward that im collecting

so i can maybe get ready for any sell that Illuvium will put if they implemente s ILV in the sell of land for exemple

[blazing briar]

yep this sounds right. remember it doesn't compound like ILV!

[vivid cipher]

yeah have you added the sILV address to your wallet? It's pinned in #🥩〕staking

[bitter glade]

The benefit for the whitelist people would be a price that is fixed and low. Keep in mind that land in this game would actually give revenue as well as being a piece of a finite supply in a game that is expected to have a lot of players.

If you compare to other games I think you can see this is a huge bonus.

It would be like a second private investment round. I cannot know what prices will do but I suspect that buying land for $1000 might be a very happy moment for some.

[little moon]

best would be to auction if of the land to the highest bidders or not?

good revenue for dao

[vivid cipher]

meh but means the broader community would get priced out... could leave some thinking "illuvium is only for whales" which is definitely not the case

but maybe not... the open market is WILD

[little moon]

make a lottery via discord bot of 100-1000 plots or whatever and those who get picked will be able to buy their plot of land

make some happy but not all

rest gets auctioned off to the highest bidder

or even use the past giveaways subscribtions as additional entries for the lottery to benefit early members with multiple entries

[vivid cipher]

there's discussion on whitelisting tools like the badges from BLBP or X ILV staked for Y time

[little moon]

badges are still cheap and easy to get but might makes sense from the number of badges - don't think there are too much so could work and land would probably be in the right hands

[junior depot]

I hope we use sILV to pay for the land

[bitter glade]

Nothing is official until you make it. I came up with the name for two reasons:

Illuvium already has a Zero Point Forge that is used to make your weapons and armour etc, fuse your illuvials.

This game is about powering that forge.

In coding Zero is the first element. Since this game would release first it made sense.

Story wise it is also about what happens out in the wilderness away from the Crashed ship.

[fallow igloo]

I love the way it looks and how it sounds like it will operate. I just hope the lands will be semi-affordable for us common folk lol

Do we have any idea what platform we'd be using to purchase the land?

[slow cedar]

@bitter glade how do we go about actually ironing out these fine details as a community? I feel like there are lots of strands but it's hard to cohesively pull them together

[wind briar]

Threads ! A thread for land sale. A thread for private allocation. A thread for fuel talk.

[slow cedar]

But how do we even reach agreements? Even on how to do a land sale whitelist the ideas have been great but I feel we don't have an agreed solution

[vivid cipher]

Land Sale

Fuel Talk

[vivid cipher]

What do you mean by private allocation exactly?

[wind briar]

whitelisting addresses. It is technically private allocation

[vivid cipher]

ok ok yeah

I'm a fan of the threads and was thinking about starting them earlier

[wind briar]

Will see if Aaron likes them 👀

[vivid cipher]

haha he tried to sell the other mods on threads I think it'll be ok

he likes things organized right?

[bitter glade]

Basically I will compile a list of what I think works from the feedback and put it to vote.

Probably next week.

[bitter glade]

I do.

[slow cedar]

Amazing. I've been eager to keep this mini game rolling since it was first announced. That sounds like a great next step

[devout isle]

Definitely excited to invest in this too. Hope we get plenty of notice on a sale because the exchanges hold currency for several days 😦

[vivid cipher]

if yall have more input or don't want your input lost in the flow... you can checkout the threads in the channel

[solar swallow]

It is harder to keep up everyday :)) Did Aaron mention if he's considering sILV payment for lands ?

[arctic grove]

Read about that in the white paper

[solar swallow]

GDD You meant? Ah there is some new one

[vivid cipher]

yeah check the threads here too

and contribute

[pseudo fiber]

Do you think having a white list that is narrowed to only a couple hundred of the earliest supporters also crosses out a lot of enthusiastic people who joined later, and makes it seem a bit like it’s only for an old boys club? What do you think of expanding the white list to long term stakers as Stormi suggested, or to do a community lottery for the right to buy?

[viral star]

Does anyone know if the eth/fuel pools are going to be on a scaling solution or not?

[fallow igloo]

Just to verify but the white pages is the GDD??

[hollow oak]

Look in pinned in this channel :)

[fallow igloo]

I see it in the pinned, but that is what they are referring to when they say whites pages right?

[hollow oak]

No - This is the whitepaper https://docs.illuvium.io/

[fallow igloo]

Awesome thank you

[hollow oak]

Np glad to help

[mental geyser]

Hi, newbie here, may i ask what is this site? Is this the free trial illuvium game?thanks

[dry forge]

You begin our game with a free-to-play experience that immerses you in our richly-detailed world, lets you enjoy some action, and helps you understand how the game works. The free-to-play experience will familiarize you with Illuvium, and won’t feel like an “abridged” version of the game. It is a full-fledged gameplay experience, so you can decide to opt in to the paid experience and start collecting NFTs, and delve into deeper adventures to explore the mysteries of the game.

[mental geyser]

I see, thanks much!

[sick gulch]

Awesome

[fallow oxide]

I'd agree if it goes to previous early investors they've already made bank on the token price alone. Let alone other perks they got along the way.
Though i'm just salty i didn't find this project early enough to become an early investor 😦

[fallow oxide]

Perhaps if early investors are going to be given priority, they should have to lock their tokens up for a further 12 months. Then the early land offer is the reward for doing so.
This should also alleviate the inflation point in March.
EDITED
Just spent the last 2 hours reading the past 48 hours worth, i noticed you mentioned something similiar

[bitter glade]

It’s funny to watch all the “everyone before me has been lucky enough” comments. What happens at the next decision and we say the same thing. Then you would lose any chance of getting that same bonus.

Gotta watch out for that monkeys paw.

[fallow oxide]

Good to see i can provide some entertainment.

[vivid cipher]

By then there will have been revdis so I hope to be able to buy some dips honestly. But I’m usually a pretty crappy trader!

[grizzled helm]

Facts, HODL is the way

[hollow rose]

I for one agree. 1k for land or 2k. But 100k is ridiculous..

[hollow rose]

Cool thanks..

@bitter glade I have an idea. Why not sell 1410 packs. Limit 1 per person per pack. Sell them for 1k or 2k. In each pack there is a chance to score common to mythic. Using your %

Its just an Idea @bitter glade

[wind briar]

Problems with pack is that the buyer earns most of the rewards than the DAO does.

[hollow rose]

So how do we get around this to make it fair.

Increase pack price..

[wind briar]

There has been alot of previous discussion on this, so far auctioning the higher tiers is best option. More discussion in #872938475492626462

[proper matrix]

Or you just get duplicates not sell just 1410

[open stratus]

Ok you've convinced me. Im in

[fringe gate]

Interesting stuff here, if I can lean into the whole whitelisted stuff… the game in part was made possible by early believers. Dawnlight badge on wallet that participated in Balancer actually would be a good way to have a look into who was serious about investing. It seems fair to give them a small advantage as early supporter. Having a price of 1K, which is quite high, would sort out some non-interested people as well.

Full: Disclosure, I have a bronze badge and have not moved it. I am also willing to lay down 1K per land that will generate revenue down the line or increase rapidly in value.
I however also staked my ILV for 52 weeks, adding to the power of our token. So in that sense I feel like I fullfill all qualifications of a longterm supporter/investor

[ivory vine]

Under some circumstances, I would agree, especially if this would be a traditional gaming setting. There are several reasons though, why I would argue that using badges (at least as the only requirement for the whitelist) is a bad idea because it does NOT put the DAO first:

1. Even when using the sentimental argument of rewarding early supporters, there is a) the problem that many sold their badges so you are not rewarding the early adopters any more anyway and b) it doesn't really benefit the DAO in any way. Those early investors already got promotional NFTs, cheaper prices than today's buyers AND their support for the DAO should be more or less solid already.

2. Limiting the whitelist to a few badge holders (don't forget that some people hold even more than one) limit's the potential $ volume that could be sold via this land sale which means less revenue for all staked ILV holders

3. The land sale - due to it's popularity in the entire NFT gaming space right now - provides two incredible opportunities to boost the DAO long-term in a way that isn't guaranteed to happen on the same scale otherwise and that is

a) The chance to get a lot of people committed to the project by having them stay invested in ILV because of funds they cannot withdraw again right after whitelisting. Who knows how many decide to buy even more instead of selling off after their unlock because they got "forced" into experiencing how powerful the 100% RevDis really could be, and

b) there is a unique opportunity to draw more attention to the concept of this DAO as whole by getting people to vote (which inevitably requires to gain some knowledge about the whole process). If we really want to see this DAO in the hands of the community and not in the hands of a few, then we need to try and educate more people what this is all about and the whitelist could certainly be a unique opportunity for that.

Just my two cents to that 🙂

[wise python]

Maybe a combination of multiple distribution methods would work? I'm definitely opposed to distributing all or a large portion to whitelisted people (I would be 1 of them, fyi), but a small amount could work. As long as the majority would still be able to fall into the hands of all members, big or small fish

[long gorge]

always put the DAO first, not some lucky people. im saying this as someone who has the badge😁

[hollow oak]

I would agree as well the DAO is not put first if we use badges as whitelist requirements - But should this not be up for vote?

[long gorge]

Yeah the council should decide

[fringe gate]

All valid but I didn’t say limit too: I specifically said Badge Holders who hold that badge on the address thzt was used in the balancer sale as a part of the whitelisted group.

That invalidates your arguments here. I agree it should never be just the badges and not JUST badgeholders to be on the whitelist.

[hollow oak]

I think this is a bad idea because that favors the whales and the people with more money in their pocket - and leave out the supporters that don't have as much - But yeah the DAO should make a vote about it as a whole

[fringe gate]

What I feel like is that the land could trigger a big secondary market movement, shifting focus from game to minigame. So either people that are here long term based on badge +address or people that locked for 52 weeks

[fringe gate]

I am sorry but this is a nonsensical argument since badgeholders are not equal to whales. Also whales are what makes the money be available so having whales is not a bad thing

[hollow oak]

No i don't think whales are a bad thing i just don't think money should be a requirement

Long term showing Support for the project should

[fringe gate]

Then badgeholder should be fine to you.
Regardless of what we choose btw: Money IS an argument. What do you think will happen in an auction?

[hollow oak]

Im talking about acces/whitelist

But i don't think there is a reason to argu i think one think and you do another - We should just make it a vote and see what the DAO chose

[candid elk]

I wouldn’t say that it invalidates his arguments. The part about whitelisting badge holders not being for the DAO still holds true - to be clear, I am not against it, it actually sounds fine to me, as long as it is not the only whitelisting approach being used(As you mentioned as well), but I can see the point being made by Stormi

[fringe gate]

Yea but I said only part of the total. Because I don’t think we want to have the risk of 1) not selling all land 2) alienating new members.
But it would be a good thumbs up under strict conditions.

[blissful storm]

Rare land should be auctioned as that would be the way to get the most money from the sale and it favours the DAO. Common land should be available for anyone, even if they don't hold a badge or are not staking. Why should early investors - the ones with badges (who they are already rewarded by being early) get a better treatment?

[fringe gate]

Was it a reward though to be early? Also most people with badges fell to greed and sold them 🤷🏽‍♂️

sigh

My point is not perse about early investors, it’s about peopel who either theough longterm staking or through being here earlier and holding on to badges (as proof) would get a leg up. It’s about loyalty and putting your money where your mouth is for me

[hollow oak]

early ILV was cheaper and they could get more nfts basicly

[fringe gate]

Lol, ILV is cheap no vs towards where it could go. And there have been a LOT of people whoe were early who did not win ish… so…

[hollow oak]

? it on a ATH so no it's not cheaper haha

[blissful storm]

Land is a game asset. How do you tell players that found out about the game and want to buy land at the priced agreed by the council that they cannot because they didn't buy $ILV 6 month ago?

Is not being able to buy more $ILV (as it was cheaper) and stake it at higher APR for longer not a reward?

[fringe gate]

Y’all should read more sweethearts. I’m gonna go work to buy more $ILV

[blissful storm]

Care to explain?

[hollow oak]

Nice when you don't get your way you insult very mature of you :) (A little advice don't start arguments if you are fixed on a opinion and are not open minded)

[blissful storm]

@fringe gate elaborate and show me what I said is not correct

[mortal merlin]

Will you agree with people in 6 months that you received enough "rewards" already?

This argument I see it everywhere and it is not valid imo

[blissful storm]

What argument is not valid?

[hollow oak]

Could you elaborate? What do you think is an invalid agrument?

[blissful storm]

Before this gets out of context, I do want to profit the same as everyone else and the best way to do so is to have a great game and get mass adoption.

I do not think it would be nice for new players to be locked out of a game asset just because they didn't bought $ILV at the very beginning.

A couple of weeks ago, when all this discussion started, I shared with Aaron how other successful projects sold their land. Top-end land was auctioned so whales were happy splashing ETH and getting something rare. Common land was sold at an agreed price and everyone one was able to buy it (max 3 per tx). Why is this no fair? Everyone gets the announcement and if you have the money required and want to buy land you have a chance to do so.

[hollow oak]

This is what i would agree with no advantages

[fallow oxide]

Re-posting this here as i think it MAY be of some benefit.

In that case the whitelist is still only giving a select few that advantage while the majority of users are still facing that issue.
It's not solving the gas & bot war issue, it's just merely giving the whitelisted individuals the ability to avoid it.

A lottery/pack sale could help
Having the link to the sale on the Illuvium website, which when it goes live a custom captcha will appear before being able to order a plot. This should prevent a high % of bots.
You could do a set amount of sales every 'X' amount of hours to alleviate (not prevent) gas wars.
You could also make a public whitelist with a bot on discord to prevent more than 'X' plots per person (Yes, I guess you could still make several accounts and submit several address, but it should reduce it to an extent).

[hollow oak]

Or we could do as Big time and they could sell passes for acces and then the money can go to something else

[mortal merlin]

We have the badges

[hollow oak]

so the badges is entry? - and yeah but they were not sold close to launch of the mini-game

[mortal merlin]

What if we do something like that and someone comes here in 1 week and tell you that it should be fair for him and that you cant have it because you were there earlier then him

How would you react

[hollow oak]

probs don't care cuz the sale should be right before beta launch of the game - so he could not complain

[blissful storm]

I am sorry but if that's your argument, then just make a proper announcement 1 week before of the land sale with the requirements to be able to be whitelisted so people who really want land can comply

[wind briar]

@vivid cipher nobody used threads lol

[mortal merlin]

This is what this discussion is.

When we achieve a decision, everyone will know how

[blissful storm]

yes, but if not mistaken you guys are talking about badges given 6 month ago...

[mortal merlin]

Badges you can buy them right now

[hollow oak]

But i can see why the early buyers want some advantage - But then i like the idea of making some bigger/better land that early people get acces to and then some normal land where is fair launch so everyone as a DAO has equal opportunity

[fallow oxide]

I think everyone is starting to take this personally

[hollow oak]

No not me i think it's fun to see what people think

[blissful storm]

You know what... auction all the land. Best for the DAO and all land will sell at the price the market thinks it's fair

[fallow oxide]

Then you get the gas & bot war as Rah informed me.

[hollow oak]

Not if you make it in game on the IMX you could get bots but you could counter that as well

[blissful storm]

I've never seen an auction for 24h on OpenSea that makes the gas spike. If the gas actually spikes, that's something buyers will have to factor in. Simple.

[fallow oxide]

Then it's a matter of the person with the deepest wallet wins?

[hollow oak]

but thats almost the same issue the most richest will buy the badges from those who don't have that much money

[blissful storm]

If they are willing to pay more why the land should be sold for less? to flip it straight away for profit?

[fallow oxide]

Don't get hung up on the badge idea, it's unlikely to be JUST badge owners if that at all.

[hollow oak]

Nope but if it even plays a role its big for whales

[mortal merlin]

Btw 1 badge doesnt let you buy all lands.

Its 1 land

[fallow oxide]

That's sort of the point i'm trying to make though, obviously you see an issue with this sale. Though the fix is really only applied to a select few. (the whitelisters)

[mortal merlin]

My vote will be for the DAO anyway

So i'll just watch the brainstorm

[hollow oak]

Then i think it could be better to sell it ingame(So no gas spike) at a fixed price agreed by the DAO - Then make counter bots measures and then it's kinda like RNG -
_ _
Or make it so everyone buys a ticket at a fixed price again agreed by the DAO - then its random.org that choses entrys and you can't win twice if you dont get any land the money goes back to you :)

[mortal merlin]

But the argument I was saying is not correct is saying : you bought in at X dollar value so you already have enough reward compared to me.

[hollow oak]

Yeah that was not holding water - i was just talking about Equal chance - because we are a DAO

[mortal merlin]

Have a good day folks

[blissful storm]

You too 🙂

[hollow oak]

you too :)

[fringe gate]

Hi Jax, I did not insult anyone, merely invited you and @blissful storm to scroll up and read what I said before. Whilst some of you are either not yet working or don't need to work anymore, that does not count for me. I am not in the business of repeating myself. So scroll up and read.
Also, this is not an argument, but a discussion to see what could work.
Have a nice weekend ❤️

[hollow oak]

Yeah okay it's just the Y’all should read more "sweethearts" comment that can come across as a little smartass at least from my view like you think you are better you know?
_ _
And yeah it is a discussion with arguments

[plush turtle]

What are badges... Sorry I've been lurking

[hollow oak]

those

[fallow oxide]

The GDD is actually pretty sound if you read it

[plush turtle]

Thanks. And damn! Weren't those thing 0.2 eth a few days ago haha

[brisk gull]

Yea maybe people are speculating on it because if this is announced officially as a whitelisting method, they will moon real hard.

[vivid cipher]

Most of the official Illuvium NFTs have been pumping since shortly after ILV started its ups trend.

[viral star]

Silver are still cheep

[vivid cipher]

And the bronze shown in the picture is part of a pack. Their gonna be pretty low priced too.

[viral star]

That’s why badges make sense for new people too tbh

They are .17 eth right now

[vivid cipher]

Anyway the badges are one idea and not guaranteed to be the whitelist mechanism even if the DAO approves a whitelist

[viral star]

True

[mortal merlin]

Well I have to change this emote now

[little wagon]

How many tiers of land are we talking about?

[wind briar]

Up to Tier 5

[candid elk]

Reading through this is giving me flashbacks to the balancer sale where people complained that seed investors got in at 3 dollars, so stuff wasn’t fair. Not exactly the same, but sort of similar. Guess it is a never ending loop for projects that are rising

[long gorge]

true haha

[hollow oak]

People will always disagree haha

[candid elk]

Very true, but I love reading through the discussions seeing the different perspectives

[hollow oak]

yeah it's fun

[wind briar]

I find it funny absolutely no one talks about the fuel aspect, the most important part of this proposal lol

Just as a reminder we have threads to talk about specific aspects of this GDD.

[mortal merlin]

Ikr. Touched some comments to Aaron cause it is built on L1

But IMX could support it around mid year next year

On L2

[little wagon]

Landsale

From the DAO perspective the idea of a white list is a bad idea. The whitelist is excluding many people. Also the way the whitelist is composed now through badges is very discutabel imo. The badges were handed out as a reward for taking part of the balancer pool with only purpose as some kind of visual ingame collectors item to show of with. Changing that purpose of the badges all of the sudden is not how it should be imo. (Also the price of badges is rising extremely, just leaving badges for the people with big pockets.) Why do we want everybody to start at the same level in the game, but when it comes to landsale we give advantages to people who own a badge? I think in Lansdale we should also give everybody the same chance of getting some land without excluding or advantages to a select group.

So for the sale I think a Dutch Auction combined with a lottery will work better. Sell lottery tickets at first. Each lottery ticket will give you land. When your ticket drops on the tier1, you’ll receive 5 tier1 plots, Tier2 = 4plots, tier3 = 3 plots, tier4 = 2 plots, tier5 = 1 plot.

From Aaron’s paper; the cheapest land will be $1k for tier1 and lets say $10k for tier5 (prices can be audited ofcorse) Starting price of the tickets in the Dutch auction at $10k, end at $1k, Available tickets ~25,000 (should be audited because of unknown amount of each tier) , Duration 48hrs

[mortal merlin]

That would be way less money than normal auction for higher tiers

And ownership of lands shouldnt be based on lottery

If you want a T5 and have the money for it, you'll partake in the auction

[wind briar]

Let’s take this to #Land Sale 🙂

[little wagon]

And ownership of lands shouldnt be based on lottery
@mortal merlin You can also do it per tier if you want....

[mortal merlin]

Sure

[little wagon]

Let’s take this to #Land Sale 🙂
@wind briar where can I find these threads?

[wind briar]

Are you on mobile ? Did you update

[little wagon]

Mobile yeah.

[wind briar]

Might need to update discord

[little wagon]

Ok, I’ll try that.

[fringe gate]

good god, how do I reopen threads

[wind briar]

Top right. Are you on mobile ? Might need to update

[opaque veldt]

Land would be 1K? Why you gotta price me out like that @mortal merlin

[wind briar]

Come on Rahlord

[fringe gate]

pc and I was in them but I don't get the option to get into them anymore

[fringe gate]

for reals, let's start at 500 at least fam

[proper pumice]

as others have pointed out, with the price being a function of the auction results for the higher tiers, 1000 is way lower an estimate than what it'll actually be

[fiery dagger]

why isnt there just a first come first serve kind of thing where the tiers are randomised after you purchase and to give as many people as possible a chance to get one you can do a few steps to finish the transaction kind of thing so that by the time your purchase is done 30 seconds or more are passed

[hollow oak]

that was already proposed
_ _
"Then i think it could be better to sell it ingame(So no gas spike) at a fixed price agreed by the DAO - Then make counter bots measures and then it's kinda like RNG -

Or make it so everyone buys a ticket at a fixed price again agreed by the DAO - then its random.org that choses entrys and you can't win twice if you dont get any land the money goes back to you :)"

[proper pumice]

i think something like that for all but the top tier make sense. then let the dao benefit from whales going nuts on auctions for t5

[fiery dagger]

i like the "surprise" effect from a blind box land sale 🙂 this way even the guys with less deep pockets have a chance to get a good piece of land

[vivid cipher]

Because randomization leads to guaranteed loss for at least some of the people. Not all the land will have the same value. And if you want this to be a true investment and not a gamble then knowing what you are buying makes the most sense.

Also let’s try and use the THREADS

[fiery dagger]

what doesnt make sense to me is letting the whales buy the good land, this shouldnt be seen as an "investment" but more as a fun thing you can get to play the game you enjoy

[wind briar]

Well the thing is the land proposed is going to have extremely valuable resources in it.

[fiery dagger]

i understand that, but still the game should be fun to play right? not a bussiness investment (just my vision on it) what you will get if you sell land to rich people is just those whales manupulating the game later on with those recourses

[vivid cipher]

I think the mini game will be fun. You can play it without being a land owner. You just might not be able to earn anything. So JUST like the main game.

[wind briar]

If land is going to be valuable DAO should get initial value from selling it. Doing a prize box benefits 2ndary sellers not the primary sellers

[mortal merlin]

Exactly

[fringe gate]

The threads dont work. They’re an abomination of Discord 🤣

[fiery dagger]

Doesnt the DAO make money with every transaction? isnt it possible to add a higher transaction fee for land ? instead of 5% a 10% fee for example that way the DAO will get money every time it changes hands

[wind briar]

Kind of hard when it’s an NFT. Ppl will use cheaper market

[candid elk]

Honestly I only want to be able to produce skins or blueprints that I can use in the main game, and that part was not part of the f2p part of the mini game right? That is only for T1 and upwards land, or do I misremember?

[proper pumice]

with layer 2 rather than side chain there isn't even bridge fees (like those for moving from eth to ronin on axie infinity) to dissuade people from using alternative markets like opensea instead of the dex

[vivid cipher]

It looks like Currently the blueprint system is being discussed as an expansion for later on. But yeah it would take land nft to get the blueprints.

[candid elk]

Oh man, so I’m forced to join in on the land sale if I want to use the cross game nfts, alright, thanks for clearing it up.
Figured there might be some other way for people to actually start using the game, blockchain wise, because the main game doesn’t have a huge initial invest. Which I believe land will be eventually. Just wanted to make sure I hadn’t missed anything in the GDD

[vivid cipher]

I mean the blueprints are for earning whenever those items were produced.

[candid elk]

I’m not sure I understand that sentence, could you elaborate? 😆

[fringe gate]

Ok it works now 👍🏾

[vivid cipher]

My understanding is that owning a blueprint will be a bit like owning a copyright. So when someone else forges an nft using one of your blueprints then you as blueprint holder receive a portion of that revenue.

[candid elk]

Oh that is cool

[tall yew]

what is all this talk about land? i didn't read anything about land in the white paper

[queen folio]

Illuvium: Zero is a separate mini game that could utilize land, if passed by the DAO. Check out the documents in the pinned messages 😄

[tall yew]

how do i find the pinned messeges?

[ivory vine]

Top Right the "pin" 🙂

[tall yew]

ohhh, thanks XD

[tall yew]

thanks to you too

[little wagon]

About the mini-game,.... is there a vote coming? Is that the only vote or will there be voted on different items? (Since there are more the threads,....) how does voting go, and who wil be eligible?

[lost torrent]

The council will vote on it, they have been nominated by the ILV holders

[blazing briar]

Aight guys in case there's any interest I made a Reddit thread for this land sale discussion. I've summarized some main points that hopefully capture what we're trying to solve. This should make it easier for lurkers to follow along and show support anonymously via upvotes. I'll be monitoring both there and here. https://www.reddit.com/r/illuviumio/comments/ozfa3c/land_sale_discussion_thread/

[little wagon]

Ok, but from the last interview of Kieran I understood that the council is not in full order (read not everyone takes part in the votes anymore) at the moment, shouldn’t voting be extended untill back in full strength with active members/voters? @bitter glade @noble quest

[vivid cipher]

Nope. Majority votes is still fine

[lost torrent]

They will just continue with this epoch

[vivid cipher]

They’ve already voted a couple proposals since kain had to step down

[viral star]

It’s just Kain had to go focus on snx

[vivid cipher]

Check #📰〕governance-news and #📯〕council-chambers it’s been fine

New election will be completed in about a month. But we can talk governance in #809220563397902346

[little wagon]

Well last vote went 3-0,... doesn’t show much of a discussion took place in the council. 2 members didn’t vote,.... so did they sound their voice/opinion? I think it should be composed by people that are committed,....

Council looks a bit limped this way tbh

[blazing briar]

good luck overturning the council lol

it was already pretty much unanimous in the community if you were following along

[little wagon]

I know that, but it doesn’t show like everyone in the council is involved in the voting/discussion does it?

[vivid cipher]

That’s why we vote in a month for new members

Should land be able to be bought with sILV?

[wind briar]

[blazing briar]

it's irrelevant. especially when there's a consensus

[mortal merlin]

Kain stepped down so we are 4 now

Just so you know

And it was unanimous yes from the community so not much conversation needed

[little wagon]

I understand that, but it will be better to show decision/voting made by full council instead of three (in latest case) despite the outcome.

[bitter glade]

Yeah. If you have t0 land (free) you wouldn’t be able to make money. Fairly reasonable in my opinion.

[bitter glade]

The current suggest plan with blueprints is that skins would be functional but general blueprints might just be a rarity thing rather than a rev share. Because fuel does that.

But by having them we can turn it on later. If we don’t do that then it is harder later.

I will submit a proposal Monday. It will be slightly more conservative which is based on feedback. And give us some time to get everything done properly.

It probably will not include the land sale final details since there is still some discussion on that. But it will get us to the point of starting to build the game.

[amber atlas]

"But by having them we can turn it on later." - To me this small sentence captures a critical part of the approach to the mini game. We set ourselves up with a healthy roadmap of features we can turn on over time, depending on how the game evolves, their technical feasibility, and of course what the community wants to do.

[fallow sentinel]

Yes. Kind of like how there will eventually be free Axies for free to play people, but not as a NFT that can be transfered at your own will. You get added potential by paying

[candid elk]

Completely reasonable to me as well, I am a little concerned though that the mini game will have a huge barrier to entry for the play to earn aspect. Most likely it will be much more expensive than, for instance, current axie prices. So I was just thinking if there was some other way to join in on the play to earn aspect in the mini game, without being a land owner. Of course there should be greater rewards for owning land though.
Haven’t really finished the thought, just brainstorming (To clarify, I am not thinking about initial investment, but perhaps 6 months after the land sale has taken place)

[arctic grove]

I think the current idea for a price of t1 land whitelist is $1000, which I guess is affordable enough for some people so they’re happy about that. I guess that’s probably as cheap as it’s gonna get, for a continued passive income.

[candid elk]

Yeah $1000 is not too expensive, I’m thinking a year from now, maybe even 6 months, the land prices will skyrocket because they actually have utility

[arctic grove]

Yea that’s what I think too, which is why the 1k is pretty reasonable as an initial investment

[vivid cipher]

I was wondering what would happen if one day the primary fuel sources… players working their land… eventually decided to stop. There’d be like no one out there producing fuel. The problem with this thought is that this does not seem very likely. At the very least they’d sell their land to someone that WANTS to use it. So the fuel continues to flow.

[candid elk]

Sure, I’m not too concerned about initial investment, I’m more concerned for all the players who later on wants to participate in the mini game for the play to earn aspect of it; but most likely 99.9% of those people will be priced out because of the costs of land. Not saying we should have free to earn mechanics, but maybe something that allows for people to participate without having to drop a huge amount of money for a piece of t1 land down the line

[lapis plank]

hello, has there been final details on what the land’s utility will be? is it to mine fuel which can then be sold? or something else? thank you!

[vivid cipher]

I was thinking what if tier 0 land could get a paid device (nft) placed on it that would allow it to produce a small amount of something. But that’s basically what tier 1 land is anyways. And if any tier 0 could get the NFT to then start producing then there would be no maximum limit to the number of folks producing fuel. Not a great idea I think.

So…What if the t1-t5 land owners could produce and sell something that would let tier 0 players work for fuel for a limited period of time. Actually cutting into the t1-t5 land owners own production capacity for that time period. But they’d be selling it on the open market so it would be like a rental or land lease. But the game lore would be more like a fuel syphon or something. It’d be a way for land owners to sell speculation on their future fuel yield.

It seems pretty complex for a minigame. But pretty interesting as a potential future expansion. Though it gives me ||scholarship vibes, but it’s not because it’d be a paid lease||

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message yeah fuel is the current idea. Check the threads for extended discussion

[lapis plank]

will check out, thanks!

[vivid cipher]

And the post I linked above has the minigame tokenomics paper

[arctic grove]

Yea that’s a good point. Didn’t think about that. It will probably be monopolized mostly by whales after initial sales

[candid elk]

Exactly. And don’t get me wrong, I like whales for the amount of money they put in, but I don’t think the play to earn part of the game should only cater to whales later on

[candid elk]

Yeah I can’t really see how it would fit in either, but I like the different ideas you have. 🙂

[long gorge]

This is true. It's not the game we want. Right?

[arctic grove]

I agree, I say anyone that's willing to commit enough time should be able to P2E

[candid elk]

I believe there should be some cost, not a lot, but something - also to combat bots

[arctic grove]

Yea agreed, for anything you're earning that has decent value.

[ivory vine]

If you want to change the council setup, you can always submit a proposal for that. No one says that status quo cannot be challenged. It doesn't make sense to do it in this discussion here though, because there is nothing to be discussed. The whitepaper clearly states "If there is a case where a council member has to withdraw during an Epoch, the Council will continue to operate but the supermajority formulae will change (there must be a supermajority on each normal proposal)."

To change that a fundamental discussion and proposal vote has to happen and that shouldn't be held in the #🎮〕illuvium-zero channel 🙂

https://docs.illuvium.io/whitepaper/dao

[solar phoenix]

Just what i wanted to see/hear tbh, as the sentiment of many in the community is that the mini-game addition to the main game economy might be a bit overwhelming to start with.. especially when there won't be a massive gap, or shouldn't be, in the release of both games

[bitter glade]

I don't think this is possible. The second you make play to earn related to free stuff, you just open yourself wide for bot activity. You would be shocked at how much of the value is sucked away by bots in games where they allow someone to do somethign for free and get money for it.

The only place were we are planning to allow that is in tournament play. And there it's hard to make a bot better than a human. (I mean, we will have one, but it has access to data that the community doesn't have)

[bitter glade]

Question: For the land that we do auction, what does everyone think is a good way to do it? I always have loved reverse auctions.

[slow cedar]

Reverse auction is great imo. Or why not do different auction styles per region? Could lead to some interesting results

[uneven dawn]

Artblocks have had decent success with their dutch auctions recently. Better than the all-out gas wars

[frozen tapir]

Reverse acution is the best. Imagine if bot ape in at high price like in BLBP. Its party party for the DAO

[astral folio]

Is it confirme that we will be able to pay land with sILV ?

[ivory vine]

No, because the mini game itself hasn't even been approved yet 🙂

[astral folio]

Cause i feel pretty much everyone that go in on start will be fuck having no fiat or eth haha cause everything is lock ( my opinion ) @ivory vine yeh just suggest

[junior depot]

What is reverse auction?

[fallow oxide]

Starts at X price and lowers over time until someone purchases.

[junior depot]

Oh ok. Thanks for letting me know.

[fallow oxide]

That's a bit of a guess, maybe someone could confirm that's how they work. 😅

[junior depot]

lol. I googled it its says differently so I am not sure it applies here.

[bitter glade]

Nothing confirmed, but I think that would be a likely situation.

[bitter glade]

Usually called a Dutch auction

[wind briar]

What would you price it though ?

NFT is going absolute bonkers you going to have a T5 start at 5000 ETH ?

[bitter glade]

Yeah, these tend to use some type of inverse curve so we can start it at 'so many billions' and it can come down quick.

I would like to auction off the first land. First contact with Illuvium. Tier 5. Awesome landmark. In the middle of the region of their choice. Bidding starts at 'do you own a country?'

[wind briar]

It will be glorious to watch that is for sure