🎮〕illuvium-zero

[vale dragon]

awaiting for season 2

[broken roost]

Assuming all lands produce the same amount of fuel. Is it ok to think that for every 1.000.000usd illuvium makes, land owners earn 50.000. So every plot gets 2,5usd?

[empty path]

T1 doesn't produce the same as T4

[broken roost]

I know, but that's math for another day, that's why the premise

[empty path]

Ah ok, sorry read it wrong

Well if they earn 1.000.000 USD from beyond sale, land owners get nothing
It's 5% from total fuel sales

[broken roost]

Total in game revenues yes

Just did the math, T2s are close to that profit

1 in 23.000 or so

Close enough

[empty path]

Assuming all plots are active

[broken roost]

Yeah

So the game would have to make around 20.000.000 a month to make something like 50bucks.

That's a lot of 0s

[empty path]

lol

[broken roost]

I guess there is also blueprints

Something is still not very clear to me, maybe someone can help me understand this.
So there are a total of 100.000 to potentially be sold, that is if more fuel is needed in the future.
So what is the baseline? I mean how much is a plot of land expected to earn before more land sales come? Now that fuel is infinitely created, hasn't that conversation happened yet?

With this initiative new land plots should increase the % earned by landowners as they are added to the ecosystem

Otherwise the team can just decide to sell 80.000 more plots and lands would be worth 1/5th of the original price

[gloomy quarry]

I would rather lands produce more vital elements for the games, ontop of skins. Touching the 5% revenue will create more problems than it solves

[broken roost]

Well yeah but how come the idea of the team just being able to set the bar for fuelmaking of plots super low(because they can produce fuel anyway) to compensate then by selling more land for profit doesn't come up in IIP39

While LO get that 5% profit diluted more and more

[hearty cradle]

yea land potential value and earnings is effectively capped

just make sure to sell before the next bear market

more supply in the bull capping land earnings, more supply in the bear lowering individual earnings

i believe the only people who has a chance to make money are whales who bought many plots with claimed sILV2

this is assuming ranger and mozart skins are popular, which i doubt

unless we have multiplayer OW

[gloomy quarry]

It's only capped fuel-wise. They can always add more utility and stuff lands produce as the game grows which can add more revenue.

At least that's what I hope for

[iron veldt]

https://tenor.com/view/dev-do-something-gif-23769887

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/pudgypenguin-hopium-penguin-gif-26360923

i guess, im not degen enough to bet on future utilities, it tend to dissapoint even more

[jovial haven]

I thought land owners get % of all revenue just like ILV holders?
If not, then thats pretty messed up

[hearty cradle]

5% of fuel revenue

[gloomy quarry]

I'm not counting on lands to become rich tbh, bought them mostly for fun and experiment.

The 5% from fuel revenue sounds very underwhelming, considering you also have to spend alot of time developing the lands too unlike staking. To me it's common sense something else has to be added, could be also hopium. We'll see

[pure fable]

Do we need fuel or elements to mint the Blueprints?

[celest narwhal]

that is not know yet

[celest wagon]

However at the beginning I thought that this was a good investment to become rich... 😭

[grand silo]

does anyone know if we will be able to transfer resources to players other than ourselves?

[celest wagon]

I imagined myself like the world of warcaft system, I sell ready-to-pay cards so that players can play

[empty path]

Don't think so

[gloomy quarry]

The token is better suited for that, especially at current prices. It's all speculation anyway

T1 will probably earn per month equal to 2-3 staked tokens based on quick napkin maths

[celest wagon]

I hope they find a system to restore strength to the land '?? ARRON help 🙏

They can change the ratio 1:19 => 1:10 ?

[gloomy quarry]

Nope cause token holders and the treasury will lose 50% of the profit and the game will die

Better to add additional utility that lands produce

Like crafting materials etc

[ocean haven]

Ye i found out to, its not worth buying asset, just buy token sell next bullmarket run for the hills

1-tier1 land at mint will give you, 10 AAA games on steam

land not worth it as investment, not worth it as a game

[sharp elk]

At some point land will be cheap enough to be worth it as an investment. We just don't know what that level is.

[gloomy quarry]

An easy solution would be to introduce a building that produces the same materials as those found in OW

[slim wigeon]

Shards please

[hearty cradle]

hard to sell too

[broken roost]

so true

[mortal mural]

make tons of mounts, and have materials made from lands? (then i again i think big sellers should be kept to Illuvium as a project and stakers)
maybe lands can manufacture something not gamebreaking but makes OW a whole lot easier? make tools to mine and recolect materials faster??? jet packs that can fly longer? jump higher?

make tools to improve illuvial capture rate?

maybe make tools to repair mounts, obtainable through OW but a lot easier just paying a little to obtain from LOs.

[hearty cradle]

hard to believe its gonna happen

[mortal mural]

like making tools to fastrack gameplay

im just spitballing, i have no idea how it should work. also im a terrible salesman

[hearty cradle]

it has to be cosmetic

so prob pets and mounts maybe

[mortal mural]

maybe we make LO gameplay more enjoyable??? lol, and add cosmetics to IZ and only LO get the revenue??? (sounds terrible to be honest)

i like pets

auto looting pets??

[hearty cradle]

rn some people are still idealistic

they dnt want to "corrupt" the game with those kind of stuff

[mortal mural]

at least can we make a road map, so lands up in price and i can dump them to someone else during the bull

🤣

[hearty cradle]

even WoW, a hardcore pc master race game, sells skins, mounts and pets

[mortal mural]

but those kind of thing are big sellers

[hearty cradle]

they are

[mortal mural]

i use to just buy up all the autolooting pets i could, it just made my gameplay much easier

i have money now and no time, i use to have time and no money

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/ffxiv-namazu-qyurae-tizah-gilded-mikoshi-ff14-gif-24397772

[mortal mural]

i know it s super predatory

[hearty cradle]

FFXIV mount

[mortal mural]

YES PLS

lol

[hearty cradle]

lol

[mortal mural]

it just is super sellable

[hearty cradle]

viper gonna cry

[mortal mural]

people want to see and show things while playing.

[hearty cradle]

problem is we are single player

[mortal mural]

well... maybe we can fix that?? lol

[ocean haven]

there should be many ways to make land matter, dont think thats the issue unfortunately

[hearty cradle]

the problem is
they sold land not knowing what to do with it and just figure it out as they go

[mortal mural]

yea, right now. i wished they never made lands. it just took a whole lot of dev resources and time

[hearty cradle]

and people's money

[mortal mural]

but neglecting now its gonna make a lot of people angry

i jsut took the lose and trade my way up again.

[hearty cradle]

thats the best way man, just write it off

[gloomy quarry]

its not that deep, all they have to do is add few more utility to the land, introduce pvp or other content later down the line and we gucci 👍

[mortal mural]

i did buy the lands myself. i take as if i was mainly at fault. also trading is a lot of fun to me.

[ocean haven]

The DAO refuse to put workload on the team before OB, and after OB they will be even more busy having a live game

but maybe for next mid bullrun

[mortal mural]

i hope so, im still gonna dump some land in the next bull and keep some just for the funs and to be in it.

[gloomy quarry]

yep kinda in the same boat here, we'll see how it goes

[hearty cradle]

land is still overpriced, except for T2

[radiant sky]

Even t2 is overpriced atm. We haven't seen bottom in all tiers

[hearty cradle]

how low

[jovial haven]

Ye I am waiting for T2 to reach 500 to buy another piece of land

[empty path]

$500? T1 used to be that much

[clever comet]

Btc used to be 60k 😂

[clever comet]

Stay in line, I announced a long time ago that I want to buy at 500

[empty path]

Oh don't worry, I'm not buying any more land.

[clever comet]

I have only 1, and for now I want to buy a t2 and some Ilv

[empty path]

I'm playing 4 T4 plots

[clever comet]

I understand you!

I have a little little T2☹️

[empty path]

(They are not mine)

[clever comet]

Maybe…one day…

[broken roost]

t1s were sold at a minimim of 0,3 eth if i remember correcty, with starting auction at 2eth

[empty path]

I sold one for 0.5

[jovial haven]

Big money

[jovial haven]

Big money*

Couple days ago there were some T2 lands that were around 500-600 dollar and took quite a while to be sold

[mortal mural]

How are you currently valuing land?

[slim wigeon]

What happened with this chat who cares about land prices not going to sell my megas anyway.

I think all this price speculation should be moved to token I think many here are just annoyed from these conversations and this kind of discussion is perfect for the token channel 😉

[sharp elk]

No thank you. ILZ chat is the new #💰〕token . You’re welcome. 😆

[nova epoch]

T2 best

[mortal mural]

amen, jag can move in here too, token chat got too serious with data and stuff.

[mortal mural]

i enjoy playing the t2 and t3, t1 is kinda of a pain. dont have any t4s

[neat zenith]

Hello. I have 2 questions. If i have multiple lands on a wallet will i be able to move resources between them? And are there plans to have delegation access for other players to play on my lands?

[vivid cipher]

It’s already possible for you to create Illuvium game accounts and have the land be in a wallet that you control, but give control of the game account to someone that you want to play on your land

[neat zenith]

Thats awesome. Is there a guide on how to do it? I currently have my lands on the immutable x wallet

[vivid cipher]

So you would create a different wallet and connect it to immutable X. And then you would create a new Illuvium Game acccount. And connect the new wallet to that account.

Last I knew, there would be the ability to send resources to other lands in game, but there will be a cost involved. (I.e you lose 20% of the transfer to “cost”)

[neat zenith]

Ah i see. 20% is large indeed. Haha

Thanks for the responce. Will give it a try

[vivid cipher]

That’s not a real number. We don’t know real numbers.

[neat zenith]

The delegated access cannot allow other players to tranfer the lands out of the wallet , correct? 😆😅

[vivid cipher]

It’s not delegated really. All they do is they login to the game account that’s been connected to your wallet. they should never have control of your wallet.

[neat zenith]

Good to hear 👍they would only be able to click harvest etc ?

[radiant sky]

difficult to answer 😄

My brother and me were always focusing on the trading part of games, like making gold in auction houses in wow with arbitraging, creating stuff others didn, always searching for the product making the most money with the least amount of work etc.
With IIP-39 the whole trading part gets at least restrictet, if not totally eliminated, so there's a big chunk of what makes it fun 2 play for me gone.

At the time of landsale i thought IZ will create all fuel for all games, which is arround 5% of ingame revenue, yes turned out i didn't read the iip and that was actuall not the case.
Turned out fuel is for a long time the only ingame revenue (besides IZ-Shop), and IZ basically just gets 5% of fuel sales. I totally took that on me, and was still very hyped.
Now it looks fuel won't be in all games for usage, at least i haven't heared any use case of fuel in arena and every time i ask when council, or team is arround it just gets ignored, which gives the feeling of there aren't plans for a direct usage of fuel in arena.

Pretty much the same story with skins. I always knew, there were going to be special versions of Mozart/ranger skins for christmas, halloween, special collabs etc. But IZ still going to be the main source for most of the skins.
Now with IB-rewards/promo sales it looks like the IP itself already prepared 2 ways of selling not only those 2 kind of skins, but also battle board skins before we are in open beta.
Asking myself how will it be in other following games, like if there is a shooter introduced, is IB they way to go if you wana have weapon skins?
Feels just like the skins in IZ will get less and less marketshare, because it's just the very specialized kind of skins to buy and only for mozart and ranger.

We also thought we keep our total share in lands, and will participate in future landsales, hunting for another Megacity.
But with IIP-39 thats pretty much impossible anymore, and we decided to not take part in future landsales. Which doesn't help to keep excited either.

Then there is the value weighting of the different tiers which is just f^'* up.
We were mostly in for maximizing fuel output, and just a tiny bit for taking part in the BP lottery.
Turns out we bought totally the wrong tiers for that.

So in the end, the hype-curve got hit multiple times... just once positively, when they reworked artwork which was needed imo.
But other than that, it just went down... Value i thought it has and excitement i had to play actually the game.

For a not so personal input...
There is currently no known added value in close future, while value for many people got lost due to the reasons i mentioned and through delays.
Game is not live
There is 0 reason why land shouldn't lose value until one of this factors get changed.

And just i said it, the whole delay thing is very very low in weighting for myself, like i almost don't give a fuck, as long as there is enough runway.

[vivid cipher]

Yes. Just in game stuff. No NFT creation or transfer

[mortal mural]

i think its a small price to pay to ramp up your lower tier lands

[neat zenith]

So basically i give my email and pass to the player?

I thought there was a choice to include other username account for land access

[vivid cipher]

You would. But I think it’s better to create a NEW account.

[neat zenith]

Yes. I created another account and linked a different wallet. I just give the pass of that other account to the player?

[vivid cipher]

Yes

[neat zenith]

I was just thinking there was a more easier way to allow access 😆

[vivid cipher]

There is not.

[neat zenith]

Ok got it 😊👍

[clever comet]

I didn’t see, i check every day on illuvidex ☹️

[iron veldt]

I wonder if the councils could speak about this

[mortal mural]

i never thought of arena using fuel, actually. but it would be cool if arena had a fuel usage mechanic. i thought more about maybe we make a racing game, so fuel goes into it somehow. i dont get the keeping the shares part. i always thought we were getting diluted. but that would a be financial decision of illuvium as a whole project, maybe i got it wrong the first time. i also love to maximize processes, so i was kind of excited for the game. if price drops to ridiculous levels i might adquire some more. otherwise i rather buy ILV.
deep in my fantasy i still want to see IZ do great.

[radiant sky]

It got talked about parts of it many many times, with council and team members.
Most have a totally different view on a lot of things than i have. Always makes me think i see it totally wrong and all will be good. 🙃

[radiant sky]

i doubt at this point that future games will need fuel, would make sense to stay in the system and just make it free to play like arena and make the money with OW.
Yes we will get diluted, but we had the intention to buy lands at the next sale, to keep the total share we had.

[fervent slate]

In the future, Fuel and Blueprint NFTs can transfer, right?
ImmutableX, so for free.

[vivid cipher]

Yes

[celest wagon]

#🎮〕illuvium-arena message

[broken roost]

Daily reminder of Kieran himself stating ''illuvium land is the center piece of the illuvium economy, it generates all of the fuel and elements that power the main game... ...illuvium land is the center piece of the illuvium economy, it generates all of the fuel and elements that power the main game'' before land sale of course

[west orbit]

getting infinite loading screen on zero, on version 0.2.1, tried uninstall and reinstall to no avail. any help?

[trail forge]

See even I can look out for the land owners

[celest wagon]

your a great idea🧠

[wispy prism]

What do you mean by , our land gets diluted? Don't we own what we own?

[trail forge]

If you own 1 land now and more land gets released than the % amount of total land you own has now gone down

So to keep the same % , you would have to purchase additional land

[wispy prism]

Oh.

[bitter phoenix]

Sort of. Because as demand grows for fuel it should balance out.

[trail forge]

I'm speaking in terms of the land you have in relation to the total pool

[bitter phoenix]

Essentially you have a smaller slice of a bigger pie

[trail forge]

Thats also not necessarily true as demand can shift up or down

[bitter phoenix]

Yes true

[trail forge]

More land can be added into the ecosystem at a period of high demand and then once new land is already established demand can go back down

[wispy prism]

As long as I can fund my own play Im good

[bitter phoenix]

As with everything that remains to be seen

[trail forge]

All depends on how much land you have and how much OW you want to play

My guess is you would need A LOT of land to fuel play

[wispy prism]

It will be a slog. 3 t1s

[bitter phoenix]

And how much of what you catch or mine can be sold

[wispy prism]

I want to play a lot.

[bitter phoenix]

At a profit

[trail forge]

I would start budgeting some outside $$$ in that case

But the exact numbers are yet to be seen

[wispy prism]

Yes I'm on the already.

I guess we will see. I don't have a budget to pay a lot.

[bitter phoenix]

It will take time to build up your plots to the point of giving enough revenue to play so time is a factor as well

[wispy prism]

Yep

[bitter phoenix]

If we don’t get much lead time there will be a big lag

Maybe even a month or two

[wispy prism]

It's shaping up to be that those with money will be able to smash out the first runs. I hope it evens out a little.

[wispy prism]

Yeah. Although I don't really mind doing t0 or t1 runs.

[trail forge]

Those with money will always have an advantage

[bitter phoenix]

Well hopefully the council and team will consider this aspect before they decide lead time

[bitter phoenix]

True dat. Also those with brains 🧠

I lucked out twice. 😂

[marsh sage]

I keep seeing this statement that trading is restricted. Can you explain why you think this is the case? IIP-37 creates an orderbook to ensure that the most dynamic market possible can exist. IIP-39 ensures that we protect the 5% distribution of all fuel sales to landowners while their plots build up in the first month or two after launch to allow the economic gameplay to shine.

You and a few others are regularly making this statement as if the proposal to create a fixed price for fuel passed (which I agree, would have destroyed the economic gameplay) but that was rejected by the community and all councils.

I’m not trying to single you out Dr. because I’ve seen several other folks make this same type of statement but I want to understand where the sentiment is coming from

I’ve literally made tens of thousands of gold from WoW AH arbitrage in multiple worlds and played dozens of economy based games and would never support a change that removed that core element of the end-game loop from Zero

[hearty cradle]

AH got price ceilling?

must be a hidden feature

any economy with a ceilling or floor is not free market

[marsh sage]

Not sure if serious. Are you familiar with the Wow Token? Is a very similar mechanic

[hearty cradle]

sold a bunch

[marsh sage]

You buy a token for a fixed price and then sell it in game. In our ecosystem we also have a mechanic where players can ‘create’ their own Tokens and that will establish a market that doesn’t flow through the studio

[hearty cradle]

wow token is not AH

dr spoon was talking about trading the AH

crafting

buy mats, do some crafting and sell

[potent dock]

So like Blueprints and skins?

[radiant sky]

Sure 🙂
At the time of landsale, price volatility in worst (or best 🙃 ) case were 50% (+-25% of a set price).
I read pretty much every post in governance section and listened also to all the townhalls.
The overall sentiment seems to be that a too volatile market of fuel would hurt the system and the IP in the end.
That's part of the reason why some of the tools in IIP-39 got implemented as far as i understood.
Now, due to the sentiment in all these discussions and out of statements of governance and team, i guess the target will be to have it less volatile.
How volatile it is in the end has to be determined, but in my opinion most likely it will be less than the 50%.

Idk if you played IZ. But if you wana play the market, and in case of a low price fill your storages in order to wait for better prices to sell, you have to swap some production into storage due to the limited space of a plot.
So if the volatility is considerably lower than what it is intentioned to be, the risk to play the market and "waste" space for storage could become to high for a maybe low profit and the go to strategy will be to just dca.

[hearty cradle]

and you know the value of game token in gold got inflation right?

https://tenor.com/view/randy-g-pep-farm-gif-18424871

[radiant sky]

also in theory, you could use the tools to basically set up a fix price.
Set rail for a good price for most people, and slow down fuel production to a min to create fuel scarcity.
where we will also end in a dca strategy for landowners.

[hearty cradle]

the more gold farmers in WoW, it will increase thr price of game token in gold

[bleak raven]

There was no excivement in zero. It was just a fuel collecting work and was very manual. Was that really a game?

[hearty cradle]

ive played WoW since TBC lol

what a fkin condescending remarks ani

[radiant sky]

leechking was my last one i played. Afterwards it got bad somehow.

[marsh sage]

I understand better now. The intention for every council member I have spoken to is that the guardrail should never be hit once the game gets up and running. In that case, all market volatility will be due purely to emergent gameplay among the players. If the rail is getting hit, balance changes should be made. Per IIP-39 these are explicitly created for the team to use manually in the beginning and then via an automated process later.

I think that the amount of volatility that players view as a good thing depends very much on the individual. That said, the goal that the volatility should be entirely up to the player base activities and the top rail is only a ‘break-glass in case of emergency’ mechanic I would hope is the best news you can hear.

[hearty cradle]

let me guess? an elf mage?

[hearty cradle]

WotLK was the top

i got burnt out too, i was in a competitive guild, had to raid 4 hours a day

as a druid healer

kind wind down after 10 man yogg

[radiant sky]

😄 we did less, but still got 4. in europe if i remember right... fun times

[hearty cradle]

i was in my 20s and these guys are like mid 30s

like these dudes play games every night lol

WoW used to be fun, now its just mythic speed run

[marsh sage]

Not trying to be condescending but I apologize. I can see why it came off that way. The typical AH mechanic in WOW (if you’re not in a region/server that supports tokens) is virtually identical to our Illuvidex for Illuvials and other in-game assets. Because fuel is required for gameplay in our ecosystem, the appropriate comparison is to a WoW Token or Plex in Eve Online or similar mechanics. Lots of people use this argument that ‘the AH doesn’t have fixed prices’ but fail to mention that there is a fixed price in USD (or whatever currency) for a Token. It can then be sold in game for gold and thus creates a one-way market between real world currency and in-game currency.

[radiant sky]

i remember reading explaining the "break-glass in case of emergency" on a affordable price lvl for the majority of players.
Which were pretty disappointing moments 😄

Also automated system is basically the tool to manage volatility, right?

[radiant sky]

had crit shaman healer 😄

[marsh sage]

Automated system would eventually replace manual balance changes introduced by the team to give more transparency and consistency to balance changes (including how and when further land sales would work). Otherwise we run the risk that it feels very arbitrary to the players

[wispy prism]

At the end of the day, isn't it all just speculation?
We won't really know how it's going to play out until it does.

[hearty cradle]

we do

its not speculation

its just econ

[radiant sky]

lets not start talking bout the landsales 🙂
i take it as kind of a yes 🙂

Anyways, keen to see some numbers and formulas in the next iccp's.
So i get some material for theorycrafting.

[wispy prism]

Really?

[hearty cradle]

yea

[wispy prism]

Interesting

[hearty cradle]

u think thats what the FEDs do?

lets print some money and see what happen u guys

[wispy prism]

Heh?

I find it interesting people can 'know' what's going to happen in a largely untested situation.

[hearty cradle]

what we are talking here about fuel policy is not speculation

Because we went to business school

i did

[marsh sage]

I must be missing your point. You stated that there isn’t a top rail price in the WOW AH. My point is that $20 USD for a Token (or whatever currency and rate Blizzard chooses to charge) is their equivalent of a top rail for playing the game. The currency conversion of USD to gold is of course going to fluctuate. This is why our team will continue to balance fuel production and usage.

[wispy prism]

Policy perhaps yet many variables

[hearty cradle]

not much variable here teloolah

[radiant sky]

i did not 🫣

[wispy prism]

A different eco system?

What works in other situations may not work here.

[hearty cradle]

its the same principle

[wispy prism]

I get that.

I kind of wish the team had been able to bring out the fuel system without the DAOs intervention. We say yes no and then see how it would actually work before deciding something does or doesn't.

[hearty cradle]

u gonna tweak fuel production and sink too?

there goes the free market

[wispy prism]

Small variables can make big differences.
I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying, I can't , I don't know enough.
Yet I am concerned with the level of 'it will or has to be' this way or that.

[potent dock]

I mean be realistic here - If our fuel production is fixed at X, and that serves Y players, that's great.

Now, over time our playerbase goes to 10Y players, or 20Y players, or 100Y players.

If X is fixed, that's just a straight up 10x, 20x or 100x in someone's cost to play, and it would be imprudent to think that for any price points set, increasing that price by those kinds of factors would be a good idea.

[hearty cradle]

but what if playerbase goes to -10Y in the following bear?

[marsh sage]

I’m not. The team is though as that’s literally their job. And for the sake of the game to work we better all hope they will. Increasing building level caps, adding new buildings, running events, adding new utility and use cases to land, and so forth are all necessary to ensure the game is sustainable. It doesn’t mean it’s not a free market. Just because there are also external forces that impact the market doesn’t make it ‘not free’

[hearty cradle]

we will lose most of our player in the bear

[potent dock]

Then an automatic system to rebalance fuel production makes sense, because that system can scale up and down.

[hearty cradle]

you put a ceilling in the bull, and put a floor in the bear

[trail forge]

Just because you think/want it one way doesn't make it so

[potent dock]

There's no hard floor, and the ceiling is intended to handle short term fluctuation. Production balancing would necessarily be a lagging adjustment - Predicting future usage isn't viable.

[hearty cradle]

so fuel price cant go higher but it can go lower

rip landowner

[potent dock]

I mean, as Spoon mentioned, a +/- 25% rail was specified in the original proposal prior to the land sale. This isn't new or surprising. IL:Z is a game first, it's not intended to be a case study in how free a market can be.

[hearty cradle]

then put a price floor

whats surprising is we have a ceilling but not a floor

"to have some agency, which includes influencing price of the fuel they swap and having an impact of the main game."

[potent dock]

Let's do the whole paragraph - However, Illuvium games require some level of stability to function well.

Is there no agency in the current system in your estimation?

[hearty cradle]

sure there is

then following paragraph says increase or decrease by up to 25%

we changed that completely, so why are we quoting this IIP?

oh btw are fuels priced in USD or ETH?

[trail forge]

To illustrate that there was always going to be a top rail

[hearty cradle]

and bottom rail

[potent dock]

Primarily because we seem to be treating rails as an entirely new idea. You've been referencing free markets for half an hour, and those do not come up at all.

[hearty cradle]

yup

it never was

[potent dock]

There's a market for fuel, land owners have agency, and there's a rail in place. A lower rail poses some additional challenges to implement compared to an upper rail - In the worst case, it would result in the DAO no longer selling Fuel (DAO supplies more during periods of high demand, and can distribute the extra beyond 5% to land owners, but if land owners are making more than 5% to fulfill a bottom rail, the DAO cannot reclaim a portion of that 5% from land owners).

[hearty cradle]

thats why i said rip landowners

fuel gonna spiral down in the bear

u can increase the amount of fuel needed in OW tho

[potent dock]

It's possible, and the premise is for land owners to make 5% of in-game revenue, so as revenue decreases, production balancing can reduce fuel production.

The premise was never for land owners to be unimpacted by player trends. The premise is 5% of in-game revenue, through Fuel sales.

[hearty cradle]

since when we have that premise

[potent dock]

Since IIP-20.

[hearty cradle]

the unimpacted by player trends

we know the 5% hard cap

u can actually increase the amount of fuel needed in OW

[long tendon]

I don't agree that there should be a bottom rail nor agree with automated adjustments of fuel. It's just bad game mechanics where one day your extractor produced 5 fuel the next 10 fuel then down to 4 fuel just because of demand. It's fine now while the game isn't live but once it is you don't pull the lever of adjusting output and if there are I'm extreme cases its always up not down.

My thoughts on automated adjustment and perhaps an alternative for fuel ceiling is the dao producing fuel and selling a limited amount of fuel at certain conditions to help manage the market.

This is done by governments whenever there is a scarcity in goods. Sometimes they put a cap at price being sold but they do not augment the production output.

To be clear there's nothing wrong with releasing content that increases output as a lever to pull in the long run.

[hearty cradle]

yea adjusting fuel production gonna look weird in a game.
although thats what OPEC is doing

[trail forge]

Governments do lower the production output in some situations. Now whether this is a good or bad thing is up for debate

[hearty cradle]

when you put a price ceilling or floor, its gonna cause a lot of other problem to solve

something else gotta give

[potent dock]

Production balancing might not be practical on the day-to-day timeframe, and we have the upper rail to handle variance in that scenario.

Production balancing would be best on a bi-weekly or monthly timeframe. Fuel usage up 30% over the past 30 days? Fuel production rises 30%.

Doing that kind of balancing daily would certainly be awkward.

However, I'd argue it would be substantially more awkward to have a player show up and buy 3 runs worth of Fuel on Tuesday, and no longer have enough for 3 runs by Thursday because we had changed pricing for a run in Fuel.

[long tendon]

It was extreme for me to put it a day to day but it was just to illustrate. Even a biweekly or monthly timeframe is awkward. changing production output should be the last lever to pull.

As i mentioned, I would rather the DAO produce and inject fuel to augment the scarcity at a limited capacity in the long run.

[hearty cradle]

but its not awkward if they find the price of fuel keep declining? they should have waited to buy

[potent dock]

That sounds like an argument for fixed pricing ser.

The DAO made it clear there was no appetite for fixed pricing, so I don't think we need to follow that thread any further.

[hearty cradle]

im suggesting everything is priced in usd, even illuvials. Case solved

are fuels being bought and sold in stables or ETH?

[hearty cradle]

no its not.
$20 can buy you 300k of gold or 50k of gold depending on demand and supply

$20 is not the top rail, its just the amount of fiat u can top up for gold per transaction

ani doesnt know

[mortal mural]

I got a stupid idea , what if we do a x amount of fuel per season ???? Like total??? Or a decreasing fuel? Like we start the season we got xxxx amount to fuel then the rest of season we get like a minimum. And take out rails? What happens then hipothetically?

Like a total that can be extracted from land

[hearty cradle]

problem is they dnt want price to go higher

[mortal mural]

What if we take keep@the rails in that environment?

[hearty cradle]

the amount of production is pre determined

because its a game

the team will set a certain production rate for plots

the issue that they are facing is when demand exceeds IZ production

[mortal mural]

If we have a steady production of fuel from lands and we keep selling lands, what happens to demand when most player leave during the bear? Wouldn’t fuel price get crushed? ( how do I short the fuel price?? Lol)

[hearty cradle]

yup

thats why i said rip landowners

[long tendon]

Its nuanced than that. 1) is to ensure theres enough fuel in the first few months from release to supply the OW players while land owners are ramping up their fuel production and 2) ensuring that ow players arent priced out due to high demand low supply.

Long term the options are automated system, or the one I just mentioned where DAO deploys limited fuel to manage the fuel prices but that doesnt preclude the landowners from selling high (if they want) once said DAO fuel is depleted. Its a balance.

[hearty cradle]

if the dao deploys limited fuel, landowners gonna get more than 5%, because they keep producing at a constant rate

[mortal mural]

Ohhh nice idea, dao can absorb x amount of capital per season

[hearty cradle]

im sure token holders dnt want that

they gonna burn IZ to the ground lol

[mortal mural]

It’s just an idea lol

[hearty cradle]

i havent seen a way out of the bear for IZ

unless they want to increase the fuel needed for OW

which is unlikely to happen

[long tendon]

Its the same mechanic as now. Whether DAO deploys landowners get 5%. Then they get 5% from the fuel they produce and sell. As a result theyre getting both active (fuel from their own land) and semi-passive revenue (Dao produced).

Its actually favorable to the landowners and still maintain semi-regulated free market

[hearty cradle]

u either free or regulated

theres no inbetween

[long tendon]

When governments import certain goods to help manage prices. They dont fully regulate the price. Theyre just managing inflation.

[mortal mural]

Maybe we make a moving average of total active spending players? And have it attach to production rate or fuel needed for ow? I think it’s too complicated

[potent dock]

If a "way out of the bear" means buffering land owners (or ILV holders) from a decrease in overall revenue, you're correct. There is no way to magically make more revenue exist if revenue decreases in a bear market.

There are ways to balance the production of land so that we don't have massive inflation if demand decreases. Production can match usage (albeit lagging behind by some period of time)

[long tendon]

Constantly changing production output makes for a bad game mechanic. Min Maxers thrive because they know their output is consistent and augment based on optimization. You take that out you wreck the experience.

[hearty cradle]

managing inflation means regulating price

[mortal mural]

True true

[long tendon]

Thats fair. And currently were doing that but at the same time, we dont want to fully hamstring the market.

[potent dock]

An optimized plot looks the same if you increase everything by 5%. Constantly changing the relative output of buildings compared to each other would be a problem for min/maxing, but a numeric buff across the board really isn't.

[hearty cradle]

that can work

due to sandstorm, overall production decrease by 5%

[mortal mural]

I have a second idea, we make like a wallet where we can deposit fuel, but it gives interest fuel. Like a paper, which we can also trade. So we bear comes we jack up interest on fuel so we take fuel from market. Reducing circulating fuel. (I’m kinda trolling, kinda serious)

The federal reserve of illuvium fuel

[long tendon]

Yes, which is why I am okay for it go up but when you augment to go down youre already adversely affecting revenue of your land owners. Thats a no-no. Land owners can accept an increase in revenue not a decrease cause you lowered the production output. Or am I misunderstanding this

[potent dock]

That's not true - 5% is 5%. The DAO cannot guarantee that revenue will always be at X level, revenue will vary and so land owner's 5% of revenue will vary.

[mortal mural]

Chairman jagome powell

[potent dock]

More player spending on Fuel means more revenue for land owners, but when player spending on Fuel decreases, that's less revenue for land owners (and ILV stakers).

[long tendon]

5% is the guarantee but when you look at the granular. If plot x produces 300 fuel and sells at Y price. You decrease that production to 200 fuel and sell at Y price. You get lower revenue.

[potent dock]

The only reason that fuel production would decrease from 300 to 200 is because there was a 33% reduction in revenue, and land owners are still getting 5% of it.

[long tendon]

were talking about a per plot basis. Youre discussing overall fuel sales. Overall fuel sales is based on what the landowners individually produce and a decrease in production affects overall individual fuel sales.

In this scenario, 300 is 5%. 200 is 5% still. Yes landowners get that 5% sale but your overall revenue reduced even if you didnt change your price

[potent dock]

It's a strange way to approach thinking about this - We don't control revenue coming in. The DAO isn't reducing a land owners revenue by balancing production, it's making an adjustment based on incoming revenue to ensure the fundamental parameters are being met, namely that land owners are making 5% of in-game revenue.

It's reactive. In this example, you're using price Y for Fuel. If there's a 33% decrease in fuel usage from time A to time B, Y is NOT a constant. Y would have decreased by roughly 33% (with a fair bit of room for variance, because people might be stockpiling it in anticipation of production balancing). After production balancing, supply is reduced, and the price would start trending back towards Y again.

[bitter phoenix]

Hmmm I wonder why landowners are confused and uncertain about what value their land will produce?

[long tendon]

The argument is regarding lowering the production output. Whats the intention there? To maintain a certain bottom price? What for? Its to the benefit of the consumers if the price goes down. The team would be cognizant of this if the result of low demand is due to less use cases for fuel. This should be consistently looked at and addressed by new content and new use cases. I really dont see any valid reason why we should lower production. It just means DAO made a mistake in increasing production or we failed to create a lasting use case for fuel to be constantly in demand.

The reason why we want to increase production output or inject DAO fuel is to address high or volatile demand. That much is clear and I agree. There are several levers that can be pulled both short and long term for that.

[vivid cipher]

The reason to reduce production would be that there’s not nearly enough demand for fuel, because not enough people want to pay enough to play the game. But, it seems to me that even a 75% reduction of fuel prices (because land owners must sell fuel to feed their children or something) would help to reclaim paying players (due to the discount). Such a steep discount would be sad for most everyone that benefits from revenue. But it’s a tool to renew interest when demand wanes.

[hearty cradle]

we could have deflation spiral in the bear

[bitter phoenix]

Land owners are not going to grind every day for .50c so that kind of fixes that

[potent dock]

At a given price point, the cost to obtain some Illuvial might be $5. If that price decreases by 70-80% (it's not uncommon for variation like this in live service games), it's essentially devalued everyone's assets by making them massively cheaper to obtain, for no reason other than the DAO refusing to rebalance production.

Like Jag mentioned, as people see that happening, you can enter a spiral.

[vivid cipher]

The game does help balance that huh.

[hearty cradle]

and thats not necessarily because of lack of content, just crypto cycle

[empty path]

50 cent for 1 min work? I'll take it

[marsh sage]

This would virtually never happen though - and be almost impossible unless demand is literally 0. If you decreased production to 200 fuel, the price would increase to be Y+X. If X > 0.5Y in your example then the revenue of landowners goes up with the decrease in production supply. If X < 0.5Y in your example then revenue goes down. A decrease in production volume doesn't necessarily mean a reduction in revenue. This is because we don't know the price elasticity of demand for fuel yet (there's arguments and precedent that it could be inelastic or elastic).

[bitter phoenix]

Your cheap.

[empty path]

Isn't that how we met

[hearty cradle]

thrifty shop?

[bitter phoenix]

No we met because I though you were one of my girlfriends

[empty path]

but a cheap one

[hearty cradle]

https://tenor.com/view/burned-food-wtf-gif-22978287

[bitter phoenix]

Now your my .50c boyfriend

[whole spear]

Wait Betty isn’t your gf?

[empty path]

Please don't ask personal questions - #✍〕rules

[bitter phoenix]

Depends on what game we’re playing

[hearty cradle]

u guys just assumed his/her/their gender?

[whole spear]

Betty likes to play games

[bitter phoenix]

Only if you pay him .50c

[empty path]

Best game to play is "what part of his job did Rich forget to do today"

[hearty cradle]

he/she/they once said im just a pixel on his/her/their screen

[whole spear]

GF - Gluten free

[whole spear]

Not even a game… all of them

[empty path]

Yeah, I like easy games

[hearty cradle]

just assume demand will fall by 75% in the bear from ath

[marsh sage]

Why so bullish Jag? Demand for everything else is down 95% now...

[empty path]

You can check out #🚰〕leaks

[bitter phoenix]

75% of land owners will go back to day jobs and not produce fuel

[hearty cradle]

im trying lol

[hearty cradle]

what makes u think they still have a job by then

[long tendon]

Low demand would lower prices = benefit the fuel users. The demand is based on ow use cases and from time to time iz due to new content

[empty path]

You didn't quit your job after you staked your $ILV?

[hearty cradle]

employers : why u have a 2 years gap in your CV?
me : scoriox told me to retire in revdis ser

[bitter phoenix]

Was I supposed to keep working

[bitter phoenix]

I was just going to say that

[empty path]

You didn't work a day in your life, no point to start now

[hearty cradle]

dnt have a job to quit from

[bitter phoenix]

I’ve worked a couple. Worst week of my life

[long tendon]

That's an exteeme situation which requires an extreme solution. Not something you'd want an automated and regular solution being imposed. I acknowledge their are extreme circumstances but to impose the lowering of production on a regular basis does not hold merit for me.

[hearty cradle]

just remember the bear crash will be sudden

[wispy prism]

Hence why in the future iterations of governance needs to be clarified. My feelings, it would be best left to the team instead of multiple extra people.

[vivid cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/flashback-bad-memory-vietnam-flashback-nam-flashback-gif-12213757

[long tendon]

This is something ssc is working on which will be documented and clear to all parties dao council and team what the parameters are.

And rest assured there's common agreement with the council after an alignment that proposals would be more of a high level strategy or guidance while the team is able to propose solutions.

[bitter phoenix]

I think the thing that I keep noticing is that most landowners don’t understand the complexity and the solutions being proposed. Better education and simple explanations for non English natives would help

And for English natives too. To be clear. I’m a bit lost in most of the nitty gritty

[trail forge]

Why do you assume they always know best?

[wispy prism]

There are way too many different scenarios to make sense of or even research.

[wispy prism]

I don't. Yet they are the hired experts. It's their IP their game we are a part of, not the drivers of.

Definitely some things I'm glad about having changed, as I understand so are they, yet I do feel some aspects need to stay with the sphere of the core team first.

It's like changing the make up of an apple before you get to taste it.

No one really knows what change made was of benefit or not because each change never gets to stand on it's own to be assessed.

[hearty cradle]

can u name the game economy experts they hired?

[hearty cradle]

people can measure and predict the outcome. otherwise whats the point of doing anything

one of the most highly paid job is actuarial study, its dealing with calculating outcome in decades

so ur saying insurance company should just come up with random premium number and see how it goes?

[long tendon]

I agree to a point. The main blocker here for the team to actually provide proper forecasting is the fact that there is no precedent. We dont have data on how many users, how much fuel is being consumed on a daily or monthly basis. All of these are needed to project numbers. Team can only make a guestimate and council provided a stop gap as an interim solution.

[hearty cradle]

whats the forecasted number?

[wispy prism]

no, insurance would have lots of data. I'm just saying there is lot that cant be measured due to lack of data. I'm saying perhaps lets see how things will play out before spending large amounts of time on when there are professionals like you mentioned on it. Even Aaron has stated no one really knows for sure.

[daring arch]

Will the season 1 blueprints be exclusive or will they still be available after beta closes?

[hearty cradle]

we can use comparative data

active nft traders

[vivid cipher]

They will also be available to discover in open beta. As we will need the stage 1 to find the stage 2 then stage 3

[hearty cradle]

active wallets associated with games on imx

active axie players

how do u think the "professionals" are gonna do their forecast

this is a dao, we should take a look at their numbers

if you just want to sit back and enjoy the ride as given by the team , thats fine

[vivid cipher]

Sounds familiar…

https://tenor.com/view/its-not-a-theory-foundation-simulation-theory-fact-asimov-gif-27689011

[wispy prism]

I feel a game is going to have largely different movements to nfts projects in general.

It would be great if you joined he AMAs and could ask your questions directly. As I feel they have been answered by Aaron and others in these spaces.

[hearty cradle]

how?

[hearty cradle]

which questions

[wispy prism]

Because the utility is different and not solely around the buying and selling of pictures.

[hearty cradle]

illuvials are jpegs

[wispy prism]

Around Fuel. Okay maybe not questions yet thoughts on how it should go.

[hearty cradle]

if what ur saying is true how come all the web3 games down as bad as the market

pls dnt say because ILV is different lol

[slim wigeon]

Because ilv is diffrent 😉

[iron veldt]

It would be cool if landowners in a certain snapshot could get some ilv tokens for each land

[trail forge]

We aren't paying people to have land

[iron veldt]

you just generally hate landowners lol

[wispy prism]

I would say because most of the games launched previously have been about gaining as much cash as possible. Most of the ones I know about have sweatshop type game play. Are mobile games or very poor PC games and usually have prices in the cents for their items.

[long tendon]

I wish I knew tbh and I dont assume that the team will be sharing that out just yet. We would only know if they made changes to the production output before open beta

[wispy prism]

Here is a question you could ask.

[hearty cradle]

sandbox and decentraland are not.

cents for the items? Like illuvitar?

[wispy prism]

It seems like they are doing okay.
Ask the core team. These questions have been asked and answered. I thought the answers were sufficient, yet I lack the depth of knowledge to compare or explain it to you.

[wispy prism]

Even less

[hearty cradle]

no they are not doing okay, look at their charts

[wispy prism]

I don't want to.

They still exist, is all I know.

I didn't include them in my thoughts as I see them more like little metaverses

Not games.

Like the ones coming out.

[hearty cradle]

they are games

[wispy prism]

Good ones?

[hearty cradle]

yea, they were successful

so many internation brands bought their lands

can u name one international brand that bought IZ plot

[trail forge]

Just because someone bought something doesn't make it a good game

[hearty cradle]

said no one ever

[trail forge]

You're confusing success with quality

[hearty cradle]

just because rich people bought richard mille doesnt make it a good watch

[trail forge]

Correct

[hearty cradle]

u knw RM?

[trail forge]

You're making statements and I'm telling you they are wrong

Whatever the individual things are that are being used as examples don't matter

[hearty cradle]

number one tennis play likes to wear shitty $700k watch

[trail forge]

It literally doesn't matter what he wears or doesnt wear when it comes to quality

(also he isn't number 1)

[hearty cradle]

Do u even know what RM is lol

[trail forge]

It's a watch. It doesn't matter what it is

[hearty cradle]

that explains everything

[trail forge]

Yout statements were incredibly wrong so I pointed it out

[hearty cradle]

they are not

[trail forge]

If he wore a plastic toy watch would that make it a good watch?

[hearty cradle]

bro doesnt even know what RM is

u know patek?

[trail forge]

I already told you what it is

But it literally doesn't matter

Just because someone buys something doesn't make it good.

[hearty cradle]

its not just someone

i said many international brands

samsung, sotheby, atari, UPS bought their land lmao

u know sotheby?

[trail forge]

No point in continuing if you can't understand very simple concepts

[hearty cradle]

a concept the large corporation bought decentraland/sandbox land and not ILV's?

we paid GS to shill lmao

and very proud of it

u dont like a game, doesnt make it a shitty game, u just not their target market

what quality does ILV have? graphic

[slim wigeon]

You are in the wrong chat jag 😜

[long tendon]

While I understand where youre coming from as a metric. The same does not apply to ILV land. Main reason why these brands bought those lands is for marketing purposes. They can create a customized land shouting their brand. They cant do that with ILV land. Its equivalent is the Tier 5 land which can host tournaments and they can decorate it with their branding. And that was not put up for sale.

[hearty cradle]

ok what other matrix can we use? floor price?
sandbox is 0.275 with 160k supply

[daring arch]

What does stage 1 find stage 2 find stage 3 mean?

[long tendon]

Are we talking about metrics for success of the land sale? Or are we supposed to be talking about what metrics and assumptions to use for forecasting player usage and fuel consumption. Things got muddled lol

[hearty cradle]

i was responding to teloolah if sandbox is a good game

[long tendon]

Ah, these brans buying in is a metric of a great marketing/land sale. For basis of a good game, I would probably use DAU for that especially if its a F2P game. For subscription or games that require consistent payment then you combine both DAU and Revenue

[wispy prism]

I don't think they are good game. I think they are good advertising opportunities

[hearty cradle]

have u played sandbox?

[wispy prism]

I've watched it.

[hearty cradle]

[wispy prism]

I wasn't interested in anything they had to offer

It's for nft people

[hearty cradle]

so u believe those huge brands would still buy the plots if the DAU is so low

if the game wasnt popular?

they literally started the "land" meta

[long tendon]

They bought it at its hype and peak of bull market. Its not an indicator its a good game. It was a great marketing product.

[hearty cradle]

have you played sandbox?

[long tendon]

I didnt say it wasnt a good game. I was disagreeing with your metric for a good game and provided that DAU over time would be a better indicator.

And no I havent which is why I dont have authority to say if it is or isnt a good game

[hearty cradle]

200k MAU as if oct 2022

20-30k DAU

[hearty cradle]

once they said 38 and 522 active users

i cant find their ATH numbers

[mellow timber]

Sandbox is much better than Decentraland

[clever comet]

all the buyers that buys land to sell more expensive to make some profits, i hope to sell the land in minus...." samsarilor"

[fervent slate]

If PB3 comes, it won't matter much to the ZERO, will it?

[radiant sky]

Yes, it won't.

[dry mango]

The major impact will only occur at the game's launch, as before that, ZERO will not be fulfilling its main function of producing FUEL for the ecosystem

[fervent slate]

Thanks.
That doesn't seem to increase the price of land.😔

[fossil galleon]

Thanks 👍. Had a quick scan and looks like a good amount of the land game intel is included. This sentence under Paths is confusing though: “It is also important to note that the more sides of a building are surrounded, the less efficient Paths get.” May want to reword it.

[timber glacier]

You need to have found the stage 1 blueprint before you can find the stage 2 version. And have found the stage 1 and 2 before you can find stage 3.

[timber glacier]

Just a few things:
The path infographic has an error. Specifically the part where it says that paths influence the passive time event of converters. This is incorrect.

Fuels being ERC-20 tokens that will be tradeable on exchanges is most likely false. The current plan as I've seen is to not have a secondary market for fuels. So while they will be tokens, they will not be transferrable out of the Illuvium ecosystem to an outside exchange. (Note: I could be wrong about this one, but perhaps it's better to not mention fuel tokens until it's officially announced that they will be freely tradeable)

The part about Airdrops from Nexus could do with an explanation of the Activity Tab, where you can cancel actions and free up a building for other things (including the Airdrop, so it doesn't delay you for a whole day).

There's a lot of repetitive segments early on in the guide, and inconsistent content in several sections.
First there's the glossary which mentions Elements, Fuels, Tiers and Landmarks.
This is then repeated in a choppy fashion, where headers don't quite match with the actual content.

Production Sites, this mentions very little about the elements or fuels beyond the number of nodes per tier, and partially goes in detail on the tiers instead.
Landmarks, this section starts as a continuation of the previous one but only talks about the fuel landmark. Nothing about the T3 or T5 ones.
Resources, this then jumps back to elements for a third time, followed by fuel. (Would be better to have it all focused under this header rather than the previous ones)
Revenue and Gameplay, here you have 3 consecutive sections regarding Blueprints.
Paths, this should be in proximity to the parts about Production buildings as it's directly influencing production and building times only. (Or under the getting started efficiently section)

[radiant sky]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[timber glacier]

yes, but I don't see it saying anywhere that you'll be able to trade thoses on other exchanges

[radiant sky]

Not too Deep into blockchain, but if you own an erc-20 you can do with it whatever you want for example sell it in os, no?

[timber glacier]

that would depend on how Illuvium handles the token

Option 1:
in IZ the fuel isn't a token
you mint fuel and send it to OW
OW turns the token into fuel
Then the token only exists within the Illuvium system and never goes into your wallet as an ERC-20 token.

Option 2:
You mint fuel as an ERC-20 token and it goes into your wallet
Then you can do as you want with it.

I've never seen it mentioned that option 2 will be the way the game will handle fuel tokens though.

[timber glacier]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
Closest I could find on the topic.
Johnny specifically mentions they don't want infinite storage for fuel.

On the other hand, it's an old post and it might be that fuel transfers out of IZ is one-way. So once out, you can't put it back on land, only into OW.
But I don't know it there's been any official news about how this is supposed to work yet.

Hence, it's better not to mention this is how it'll work until we really know this is how it'll work

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
Fuel has always been described as erc-20 token.

[timber glacier]

No problem.
Content-wise it's really good, I'd just prefer to have it a bit more focused per section. And perhaps structured in a manner that follows the game flow.
Like, starting with the plot structure and tiers, then talk about buildings and paths, followed by the cost to build these things (elements and fuel) before moving into Blueprints and revenue.

[oak ruin]

thank you for putting this up. We all need to help as much as possible.

[twilit path]

Hey guys!
Do you think a megacity T3,T2,T1,T1 is interesting? Thinking that all the plots has at least 1 element site of the T3 landmark.

[oak ruin]

sure, a megacity is always interesting

[whole spear]

Just as an FYI, Johnny is currently OOO, but I'm trying to schedule a townhall/ama with him once hes back. Considered Aaron before hes back. But I think a lot of decisions rest on Johnny so it might be best to wait for Johnny. So Community helpers have helped me collate some questions/concerns for this and I'll keep you updated once I have a date.

[mortal mural]

what happens to scanners running on lower efficiency? less likely to find biodata? when i put 2 scanners together they have 90% efficiency

is efficieny kinda ok? has anyone tried?

[split vortex]

@noble quest wen more informations about mega citys

[radiant sky]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[fossil galleon]

Has there been a zero tech update from Julien recently? Don’t see one in pins.

[radiant sky]

No, they all got pinned.

[fossil galleon]

Ok so no update from last sprint. Ta.

[noble quest]

That's an update that will come after open beta, we don't have a release date yet

[mortal mural]

i thought about the passive converter balancing, maybe we can do sometihng like "under X effciency--> no passive" to avoid spamming fuel.

maybe the area of effect can be played with too

[primal sentinel]

quick question, as of right now, if we get any blueprints in illuvium zero we keep them when the game fully releases right?

[bitter phoenix]

Yes you will get the opportunity to mint blueprints that you have found during the up coming minting window

[timber glacier]

Yes, less likely to find biodata on lower efficiency. Still not a huge difference if the initial chance is already low. Say it's at 5% (with 100% efficiency), then at 90% efficiency you'd have a 4.5% chance of finding something.

[inner mango]

I keep getting booted after about 2 min of playing and its annoying af

[timber glacier]

You should contact support through the link in #❓❓〕support and they will help you sort it out.

[inner mango]

Will do thanks

Wants an email... Boo

[mortal mural]

i just found out you can research the same biodata more than once. how many times can you research it? i had scanners all over the place

[timber glacier]

There's no limit. (Technically there is, since you can only place a limited number of labs and resource producing buildings on a plot to have everything running at once, but nevermind)

Biodata never gets "used up", and you can use it in multiple labs at the same time

[bitter phoenix]

When you were running multiple labs were you researching each illuvial biodata one at a time or just random any one you didn’t have biodata for. Did you have a system?

[mortal mural]

its only 3 blue prints per biodata, right?

[bitter phoenix]

Correct

[timber glacier]

I was running each biodata only as many times as I was missing Facts/Blueprints each day
Then just extras of the ones missing if I had any labs left over

[bitter phoenix]

Same. I just didn’t know if there was a good system. I hope they make a sort tool so it’s easier to keep track once we go live

[timber glacier]

Well, it would maximize chances of not wasting a research action. But it might be more efficient just having all labs running research on a single biodata to see results for that specific one faster.
Didn't run numbers on it though

[radiant sky]

Will especially come more into place when bonding curve gets implemented, or season End is near etc.

[narrow steeple]

What can i do with biodata?

Have found 2

[narrow steeple]

Thx 🫶

[jovial haven]

Nice bought finally T2 land for $500

[pure fable]

Guys WHY is the level up pop up still a thing???
It is soo ennoying

[empty path]

It will be fixed in a future build

[iron veldt]

Nice for you, but a shame for Illuvium - the game is close to be released and the price for land is still a joke

[nova epoch]

sheesh theres a T4 for 4.4 eth 🤯 some months ago floor was 10 eth 🤯

[vagrant steeple]

I don't see it as bad, I think the land has already reached their floor price. T1's floor is 300 dollars, whenever the price falls it always recovers. T2 are 700 dollars, whenever the price falls they recover. When they start releasing betas, which can start coming out at any time, it is possible that we will start to see revaluations. It is normal to see these drops due to delays and general fud.

[cyan dew]

Such a money waste tbh

[iron veldt]

I also bought some land for the prices now - but i also bought land long time ago

[fervent slate]

I think the price will come down more.😭

[vagrant steeple]

I sold my lands at a profit and now I am buying back. If we see a large drop in the market we may see lower prices, if not I believe this is the floor. Keep in mind that the delay fud has already occurred, and that we should see the pvp soon. Your thing would be to have taken advantage of these opportunities, and have some extra capital to buy some more if we see those falls. Likewise, in case you haven't noticed, the current price is similar to what we had when we were in the 30ks, which is why I say that we could have already seen a floor.

[iron veldt]

I’m not that much in Ilv, just holding 4 lands of different tiers

but hopefully you are right and this is the floor

when i read about what is earnable each month for a land, i wonder if there will be a higher price ever for lands again

[vagrant steeple]

I don't see much sense in conversations about what the profitability of the land will be. I don't think we have enough information to know.

[jovial haven]

Ye before I could never own a Tier 2 plot because it was always 1.5k+ so I am very happy I could buy it 1/3 of the price from before

[worldly flume]

What to do next? Build more scanners, or build the data bank and research lab?

[radiant sky]

I always built 4 Scanners before started to build the mat labs

[worldly flume]

But what are each doing? Do i search with scanner and transform them into skins with material lab?

[tall crypt]

seller need funds. Bought and I play it now. He finished the pain selling lands.

[worldly flume]

If i research a biodata will it dissapear? So i should find multiple biodatas?

[radiant sky]

no, you can research it as many time as you wish.

[radiant sky]

there are 5 different biodata to find in season 1. so yes, keep scanning until you found those 5

[tacit jolt]

are we in the minting period yet?

[radiant sky]

No

[tacit jolt]

is there a set time yet or just still some time in q4

[radiant sky]

No set time/date yet

[clever comet]

can we transfer fuel to the Overwold? I mean, if i don't play illuvium zero, where will i keep the fuel?

if we can transfer, will be a fee for transfer?

[empty path]

I believe you sell it in the pool from IZ and buy it back from the pool in OW

[clever comet]

my point of view , it has no logic to be like that

[timber glacier]

Supposedly it's exactly that. Players just won't see it.
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[empty path]

Oh nice missed this one, good feature

[clever comet]

it, not the same, i will send the fuel, and background will make the sell and buy, will be something automatic, i didn't must to do it manually..

[clever comet]

thanks 😉

[timber glacier]

Exactly.
All fuel has to pass through the system regardless of it being sold or just transfered.
But players don't need to do the whole process.
If you transfer, you'll most likely just need to press a transfer button and all the required steps will just happen in the background.

[manic pilot]

Still no news when we can mint blueprints?

[empty path]

No

[heady vault]

hey, is there a limit on scanners on t1?

[iron veldt]

Not yet

[clever comet]

my guess is first must to make the game to work on iphone ( web) after print the blueprint and then public beta, i see that order to test the printing, to check if printing is working correctly on web....my opinion.

[timber glacier]

No, there's no cap on how many you can place.

[tall crypt]

The supply of land seems to be drying up, I mean the quantity, there is a lack of depth. Despite this, the tier 1 are around $300 but there are only 10 up to $350.

[sharp elk]

Nobody buying or selling? Just like any nft atm I guess. 🥹

[vale dragon]

I bought T2 land last week, it's good price

[primal sentinel]

I bought t1 for 240 last week, lowest ive seen it

[barren pike]

Is the goals section still bugged? I did not get the goal for building all converters -.-

[vagrant steeple]

If BTC doesn't have any more big drops and they start releasing betas soon (which they should) we should have already seen the floor as i said.

[clever comet]

i don't see it like that, to price go up we need new players, those who wanted land have bought so far, now must of us ( also me) we buy more if we catch a "good" price. releasing betas soon, will be also a close beta. after public beta and marketing i think the price of land will increase, this is how i see the thinks

do not understand me wrong, for beta code is very easy to received one, but most of people don't want to make the simple effort to ask it.

[vagrant steeple]

There are other factors too. For example, the number of lands there are is limited, and at this point, I would say that most of them are in the hands of holders or people who hope to sell them at higher prices than the current ones, when the beta comes out or something like that. If the price of ETH does not go down, or we even start to see increases, even little by little, there will not be that pressure factor that pulls the price down, nor that fud that makes people sell cheap. The betas, even if they are closed, should give more visibility to the project, generate more interest, bring back people who left the project, etc. Although I would say that the main factors are whether the market has new drops or not, and if the people at illuvium really release things soon or we see new delays.

[vivid mango]

Deadline for crafting prints has come and gone

[worthy yarrow]

hi, I have a question. Is everyone having the same issue? I have 4 lands, and all of them found the same bio data, but now is just searching and searching and no results at all. Is there a bug or something like this?

[snow river]

I've got all 15 items and am waiting. What more to do? Just upgrade buildings every day. Not much to talk about.

[worthy yarrow]

thank you

[radiant sky]

in case you haven't built it yet. You will need the Zero Point transducer for the minting process.

[worthy yarrow]

How to check how many plots i have?

I have 4, but it is showing in iluvidex just 3

[iron veldt]

One is free to play

[worthy yarrow]

And last question guys, is there a point to upgrade to lvl2 the scaner? or build multiple scanners on the same land?

[radiant sky]

No point in upgrading your Scanners in season 1
But sure you can build multiple Scanners, to Find the 5 biodata faster

[worthy yarrow]

you are super start man.

my girlfriend was working so hard to update them 🙂

[radiant sky]

Just don't Tell her it was useless 😂

[jade ruin]

anyone else can’t log into ilvzero??

it’s just authenticating credentials…

[cedar hamlet]

did it 10 min ago, all fine

[agile wasp]

Can we mint yet? Or not yet available?

[lyric hamlet]

Is the project abandoned? No updates since Sept 12?

[vivid cipher]

Not yet.

[vivid cipher]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
Also… when you say update do you want information or do you want a new game build? It sounds to me like there probably won’t be a new game build for zero before the blueprint minting window.

[steel nebula]

Hi team,
A quick question.
I've only recently started playing zero, i now have all 5 illuvials scanned and I'm about to research them. How many facts and blueprints are there to find?
Also, what us the purpose of the building that displays the holograms

[cyan bone]

The Illuvium Zero Team are pushing constantly, we're also actively expanding the IZ Team.

[vivid cipher]

Holo is not impactful for the current build.

[fair temple]

15 blueprints and 15 facts (3 of each per illuvial biodata)

And the holographic statues would increase the chance of finding an Illuvial biodata with the same class as the illuvial you put on there.
Since there are no two illuvial biodata with the same class currently, it does nothing.

[worldly flume]

How many scanners should i have to find anything? I currently have 3 but can't find anything right now

[vivid cipher]

Do you have 5 biodata found? Because you won’t find more than 5 At this point.

[vivid cipher]

Research took more time for me. I used 3-4 scanners and had 4-5 labs doing research until I had all 5 biodata. Then I upped the lab count to like 8-9.

[worldly flume]

Just 1

[vivid cipher]

The first is the easiest. It will take time

[lethal valley]

hi guys:
is it worth upgrading material labs right now? or theyre just like scanners in this phase?
and does it bring any advantage of having more and higher stage transducers now or not?

[timber glacier]

Labs are similar to scanners in that higher levels only unlock higher tier stuff, which isn't in game yet.
One transducer on level 1 should be enough.

[timber glacier]

Generally I find something every 7-8 scans or so. But I've gone as many as 23 failed scans in a row before finding anything, so it's just random chance.

[lethal valley]

so if i built 5 zpt stage 3 theyre arent better than 1 level 1 right?

[timber glacier]

As far as we know right now, they're just giving you the ability to mint things. So they're similar to the Quantum Fabricant or Engineering Workshop or Marketplace.

[lethal valley]

thats what i was thinking. if i build more, then i can mint more blueprints at the same time, right?
does minting take time though? or... elements or fuels?

[timber glacier]

That we don't know yet.

[lethal valley]

allright i see. thank you ^^

[polar cosmos]

this is my progress, about 30-60mins daily for manage my 6 lands 😉

[tropic heath]

hello

i need help

[radiant sky]

What's the problem, ser?

[tropic heath]

i need a illuvium key and im waiting know 6 month

a beta key

[cyan bone]

@whole spear 🔑 ?

[tropic heath]

what is this sir ?

[radiant sky]

Your last hope for a fast betakey 🙃

[cyan bone]

Rich has beta keys, once he's around I'm sure we can get you access

[tropic heath]

wow

[tropic heath]

That would be really nice of you... do I need to contact him or how can I get the beta key... thanks for your efforts

[cyan bone]

No no, just wait for Rich to appear from the ether

He's a degen, he can't be far 🙂

[whole spear]

Yes

[cyan bone]

... wow

[whole spear]

never too far away

[tropic heath]

hello rich hihi

[whole spear]

f57e4997-2d57-41ce-8319-e296b62159d0

[tropic heath]

ok sir i checekd

wowwwwwwwwwwwwwww wuhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu thank you guys

Guys, sorry, but I redeemed the code, what happens next, what can I play zero? Do I have to invest beforehand?

[radiant sky]

We are now in season 1 in illuvium Zero.
You need to own at least 1 Land plot to be able to play IZ in season 1.

Arena and overworld are in private beta2. You can play them for free with your Beta key.

[tropic heath]

okay sir thank you very much, but I just visited the overworld and I received a code by email but I don't know where to insert this code because no window appears where I should insert it

[radiant sky]

You can Inserat the code at this link

#💬〕general message

[tropic heath]

you send me the link ?

[radiant sky]

You can Click on this blue thing, it Leads you to a message of Rich which has the link for Code redemption

[tropic heath]

I don't get a field where I can enter the code, but it says registered but I can't download the game. Does anyone know what the problem could be?

Redeem a Code
Your account already has access to Illuvium beta

[radiant sky]

https://play.illuvium.io/beta/redeem

Can't put a Code in there?

[tropic heath]

Redeem a Code
Your account already has access to Illuvium beta

That's what it shows me, but how do I get access to the game now?

[radiant sky]

You can Download the Games on the following link.

https://play.illuvium.io/

[tropic heath]

Add Email & Password

No Email & Password added

Looks like you do not have an email added to your account.

In order to play the game you need an email added.

This always happens when I try to download it, it tells me that I haven't provided an email address, but I always receive the codes by email

its work thak you very mutch

thx thx thx

[radiant sky]

Glad it worked.
So you can play it now?

[tropic heath]

I downloaded it but the installation is causing a bit of problems

[radiant sky]

Mmh OK, what's the Problem?
If i remember right it's just an "unpack" and Click the "exe" file

[tropic heath]

missing game files sir

[radiant sky]

You did unpack the Download?

If i remember right there is also an Instruktion on the Download page.

[tropic heath]

ok

[tropic heath]

what is the ilv paks ?

[feral moss]

Hi everyone - has the minting stage for Zero started yet?

[radiant sky]

I never heared about that.
Maybe ask in #❓❗〕community-help

[radiant sky]

Not yet

[vivid cipher]

It sounds like someone is trying to scam you. I have not heard anything about ILV packs.

Oh maybe it’s the cards of ethernity ILV packs.

[tropic heath]

ok sir

[vivid cipher]

Here’s the info about cards of ethernity. #📣〕announcements message

It’s basically just illuvium art in the other game.

[halcyon lily]

Seems like the game is hanging up for me a lot, when I try to change from one land plot to another. Anyone else having that problem?

[brisk sandal]

yep same for me

[cyan bone]

The Zero Team have optimized a significant portion of the codebase, refactoring components where nessesary.

It's safe to assume much will have been addressed in the Beta Build thanks in large part to all of the bug reports submitted on the Alpha Build

[merry edge]

Are we doing anything with megacities yet?

About how long til we can do blueprints?

[radiant sky]

Not known yet.

[radiant sky]

Not yet.
Some say it comes with open Beta, and other say it will be implemented later

[neat zenith]

Hello. When will the Alpha gameplay records get deleted?

[radiant sky]

Not known yet

[charred bobcat]

I haven't missed the minting window have I?

[radiant sky]

No you haven't 🙂

[charred bobcat]

Is it happening this year 2023?

[primal sentinel]

you guys reckon I have enough time to get blueprints? I've been rushing the scanner and am currently going up to nexus 7, Started 2 weeks ago

[empty path]

Probably shouldn't be a problem

[radiant sky]

We don't know yet

[iron veldt]

It is possible to get you as a council?

You are in my opinion the most important person, when it comes to Illuvium Zero

[cyan bone]

Agreed, pretty impressive

[clever comet]

A date for iOS? Or a Q? :d approximative 😁

[cyan bone]

Always helpful and knowledgable

[timber glacier]

The aim is to at least have a WebGL version that runs on iOS by Open Beta. A specific iOS build will probably be much later.
No news on the WebGL lately though, so not sure how it's going.

[silk comet]

Any updates regarding Unity policy changes or blueprint minting window?

[radiant sky]

that's so kind of you 🙂
but i guess the chance of me getting elected is asymptotic to zero 😅

[timber glacier]

Last I saw was that Unity backed down on the changes regarding games developed with current versions of their platform, so as long as the team doesn't update to the 2024 version we shouldn't see much issues regarding it I believe.
No news on minting yet.

[radiant sky]

last update i saw was the one pinnged in this chanel from johnny.

[timber glacier]

there's a news post from 9 days after that, detailing changes to the new model, think Rich posted a link to it somewhere

[radiant sky]

mmh... missed that one

[timber glacier]

#💬〕general message

[radiant sky]

ah right, remember that one.
but would be nice to hear about it in the upcoming ama... just added it to the question list

[timber glacier]

short version:

[radiant sky]

yea... i mean, for a game wana be arround for 20 years, there need to be a longterm plan worked out i feel.

[timber glacier]

yeah

[iron veldt]

Not zero — Illuvium Zero 😂

[mortal mural]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-lloyd-theres-a-chance-jim-carrey-gif-11098164

[radiant sky]

i would say there's a non-zero chance 🙃

[mortal mural]

is there a reason fuel converters at lvl 4 gives 1 fuel passive back again?

[oak solstice]

Been awhile since i played but is that when passive timer drops from 2 days to 1?

[mortal mural]

lemme check

[mortal mural]

oh i havent noticed that. yes rate goes also down for a faster passive

I having some problems visually finding some buildings. The whole violet lines looks super cool when buildings are alone but when clumped it gets confusing af, I spent 5’ poking for my last research lab. Lol

[polar cosmos]

Hi,

how many scanners do you have on 1 land to maximize research blueprints?

[timber glacier]

As many as I can fit on 100%, usually 7

[timber glacier]

You don't say?

Once we get to this stage of the game I'd really like an "Idle building" list to select actions from

[polar cosmos]

how did you zoom out on the map?

[timber glacier]

I didn't. It's 4 screenshots cropped together

[iron veldt]

No way 😄

[timber glacier]

the double UI at the top kinda gives it away (or should)

[radiant sky]

Looks Like a 2x storage cheatcode to me 🤔

[iron veldt]

Yeah, i saw that - totally fascinating

[clever comet]

WebGl, yes...i want to play on phone 😦

[timber glacier]

imagine that being how megacities will look
4 UIs for a 2x2 plot...

[distant finch]

I already play on phone. I install Shadow PC app on my phone then “play” illuvium zero all day long it’s very fun

[radiant sky]

Would Look crappy 😐

[clever comet]

Mhhh, I will try

[clever comet]

But I didn’t find it in App Store ☹️

[agile wasp]

Does leveling up the zero point transducer do anything for minting process?

[celest narwhal]

it's not on app store

[timber glacier]

No, level 1 should be enough

[snow river]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware.

[halcyon lily]

How long did it take you to build all of that? I'm nowhere near that but only been poking along for a few days.

[timber glacier]

About 39 days

[radiant sky]

Just 1 holostatue?

[timber glacier]

no space for more

think they'll have a stackable bonus?

[clever comet]

when the game will be live, i think the main focus will be on fuel not on blueprind and skins, and later when the market will be saturated with illuvium the focus will be on skins....

[timber glacier]

Yeah, I think like 99% of plots will be producing fuel, and only a few will make blueprints. At least until most players have their Arena teams, then there might be an increase in blueprinters.
At least that's my guess.

[radiant sky]

I think so, but don't remember any statement from Team about that

[timber glacier]

Well, we might have to redo layouts due to changes to paths anyway. So guess we'll see once we get the new version

[radiant sky]

Yea, most likely

[fossil galleon]

Can anyone login to IZ today from Android mobile? Been having trouble the last half day. Was fine yesterday, the day before, etc. Not sure if it’s a me problem now 😅

[atomic cove]

can anyone share what we know about megacities so far pls?

[atomic cove]

just that they share the landmark bonus?

[celest narwhal]

we are not sure, bc kieran in a interview say that the lands of the magacity share the landmark but after that there was a note by the team that the landmark wasn't shared only the nexus/quantum fabricant/storages are shared. but nothing is set, the mega city won't be aviable in the first open beta.

[atomic cove]

if not even landmark is shared that just makes megacities crap

thanks for the reply @celest narwhal

[radiant sky]

It is shared

Not time to search the Post, but it should be pinged from florian

[atomic cove]

cheers @radiant sky

[radiant sky]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[atomic cove]

thanks m8

[cunning surge]

yo do we have minting window time already?

[radiant sky]

Not yet

[cunning surge]

ok ty

[compact gate]

is there a date for when the minting starts?

[radiant sky]

Not yet

[compact gate]

okay, thank you! i'm a little out of loop

[broken roost]

''Keeping on the blockchain subject, we have done final blueprint minting testing for season 1, and we are pretty much gold here, save for a couple of UX things to fix: make some messages more explicit in particular. No date is decided yet, but keep an eye on the upcoming updates as it could come really fast'']
This is in last months pinned message.
Thats what really fast means here, over a month and no news about it whatsoever

[cyan bone]

Morning mate,

We're working through deploying our L2 Collections (24 Collections in Total which encapsulates all of the NFTs for Open Beta).

Once the Blueprints Collection is deployed to Production the Illuvium Zero Team can move ahead and deploy the Alpha Build that includes Blueprint Minting (Noting that all of the Blueprint Minting work is complete).

The major hold-up is a set of dependencies.. as follows!

Blockchain Team are currently working on Fuel Exchange & Sepolia Migration as well as supporting a Ready to Deploy Push that includes our L2 Minter, Emotes Collection and Promotional Collection which enables minting of the GameStop NFTs as an example.

Once that Deployment is complete, we can schedule the next wave of L2 Collection Deployments and unblock the Illuvium Zero Team on Minting.

As far as priorities, the Illuvium Zero Team is laser focused on ensuring the Open Beta Illuvium Zero scope of work is complete and thoroughly tested taking into account all of the great feedback and bug reports we have received from Alpha players.

The team is simply blocked by the lack of an L2 Collection being available in Prod.

Perhaps @spring mist can add any additional thoughts but IMO that is a fair summary.

[oak ruin]

it NEEDS to be available on the open beta, imo.
It makes no sense to make people that put so much effort and planning into owning megacities get rekd. Making them having to destroy a ton of buildings lates, plan everything all over again for the plots combined etc. it would be a ton of extra and annoying work

[radiant sky]

Totally, and according to team it will be.

[vivid cipher]

Illuvium Zero Tech Update Archive
3/10 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
3/20 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
3/28 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
4/3 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
4/10 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
4/17 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
4/24 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
5/2 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
5/8 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
5/15 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
5/23 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
5/29 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
6/12 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
6/19 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
6/26 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
7/3 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
7/10 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

This will be annoying to do. But will be worth it. We are maxed out on pins.

[wary sand]

Pasting from general because nobody gives a sh!t enough to answer... maybe it'll get a reply here

"bro how the heck are land prices still falling so hard lmao. I checked back when it was 8eth for a T4 and was like ah surely SURELY they'll stop dropping so hard. Guess nobody wants land now or something? What'd I miss, here I thought a 60% drop was good enough, didn't expect another 50% from there. Rip people no believe in the land I guess
"

[vivid cipher]

Are you sure you are looking at the analytics the right way?
Last I checked there was 1 t4 sale in the last week. And 1 t3 sale in the last week.

There’s just not much happening with the lands right now

[radiant sky]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[wary sand]

I mean, who was trying to flip the lands? It's whatever I suppose, should have sold myself LONG ago just frustrated. Guess it doesn't matter just a bad investment. At the end of the day basically though, there's zero demand, and nothing being done about the long term potential skyrocket in supply so... guess I shouldn't expect a rise maybe at all. I'd consider getting back to mint price to be a small miracle at this point.

Anyone who pays attention, has there been any progress on the road of not minting anymore lands in the future?

[fervent slate]

It's inexcusable that the more people who have been doing this for a long time are losing money.

[broken roost]

because game was scheduled over a year ago from now
because game is boring
because after over 1 year after minting people couldnt make a single proffit out of it
because landowners cant vote on desitions that direclty affect them
But specially because the product that was presented by Kieran himself on the main youtube video explaining land is being changed and people noticed there is nothing they can do about it

[radiant sky]

It's gona be the other Way arround most likely.
They wana sell in small batches.
There's a Limit Set they can't sell 4 months into open Beta, after that 4 months a automated System could Start selling more Land.

[nova epoch]

Dao things and recent iips + bear market as well

[wary sand]

Yeah, so basically, same old same old, HORRIBLE company and the illusion Kieran painted is falling apart.

BTW, yeah Ik zero was promised well over a year ago.

[wary sand]

mint was in bear market though

[wary sand]

They're going to sell MORE useless land to people? Jesus christ wtf is Illuvium thinking. Way to screw over the investors at literally every point they can... excellent

They could at least make up for their lies/manipulation slightly and raise morale by reconfiguring the land sale and not selling anymore. They instead do the polar opposite...

Huge problems with leadership was apparent years ago, I guess we all deserve it.

[radiant sky]

Was one of the latest iips (IIP-39), was actually the council Setting this up

[wary sand]

I have very little expectation out of some of the members tbh. Maybe they could explain why it's a good thing but, just because they set it up doesn't make it intelligent or the right thing to do

[radiant sky]

You can read up in #1126838877429182506
But yes i agree, there were not a single good reason for it. But felt pretty lonely with that opinion

[nova epoch]

I think we all agree it‘s bad if initial promises get changed by the system of the dao later on :/ land holders got hit pretty hard by recent council decisions 😓

[broken roost]

hi Nick, honestly i have not much else to talk about. At this point I don't trust you or any on the team, so i'll just wait for things to actually happen. Untill then i consider this a bad investment, and i'll put some of my time into warning people on buying this and sharing my opinions on social media

[wary sand]

swear it was nick...or maybe johnny that promised the game out 8 weeks after the mint. Honestly Idk how Illuvium hasn't been sued into oblivion by now.

Every SINGLE date that has been released around the game, has been pushed back 100% of the time, with no changes to upper management. It's crazy out here lol

[cyan bone]

It was promised/discussed as the first Season 0 Alpha Build (which you've been playing for months now) not the Open Beta full release.

[wary sand]

Oh, my bad, but I'm pretty sure that was late too :D. Idk, I'm sure you can understand why people who spent 32k on something that's provided nothing but disappointment would cause some negative feelings at this point. It's just shitty that the people who spent so much money on Illuvium are being shafted at every point. Hopefully that trend doesn't continue. I guess nobody will be complaining too much if the game is a wild success...

To start a mint at 80eth for something they knew they wouldn't be able to provide value with for way over a year is obscenely scummy though. I'm curious what they'd try to sell the land at when they try to sell more.

[cyan bone]

I absolutely can understand, I'm a Land holder, I'm a gamer, I'm an investor.

It was late, and an executive decision was made to uplift the graphics significantly. That decision was not made lightly but with a view to deliver a better outcome for the DAO and align with our own standards.

We absolutely are looking at and are open to explore avenues to drive value to Land holders. It's our job, mission and responsibility to you the Land holders and the wider DAO.

We have zero plans for future Land Sales, outside of some discussion about how best to approach it when the time is right.

As I sit here today, the best thing we can do is allow the dedicated Illuvium Zero Team to ensure the Beta Build of the game delivers to expectation.

The Illuvium Zero Team are effectively working in silo from the wider teams, head down and working day in and day out to move to the Open Beta Architecture which integrates with the wider interoperable games universe.

[merry edge]

Thanks@cyan bone! Seriously it's been a very very long wait... Kieran and others should somehow make the land owners have a way to get more from the land to compensate what we were promised I also bought a Megacity 16 months ago waiting for it to be developed adn paid way over the bid to get all the lands together.... Promises are promises..now it's time to put on the big boy pants and keep them.

[cyan bone]

Yes I agree.

[wary sand]

You know... that was a really good response. I can definitely empathize with how it must feel to be part of a studio that is catching so much flak. For what it's worth, I think the employees of Illuvium are overall positive. Shockingly so, at times.

I do agree with you the only real productive path forward is to see how it all plays out and let the team do their best, and hope for the best. MAYBE the time will come where I don't feel like I've been scammed and the "asset" I was promised actually goes up in value from purchase like an asset is supposed to do. How the hell we're going to get T4 lands to 20eth floor price from here, idk... it's gonna take a lot. I have a lot of respect for you considering your reply just now though, I think it was a damn good one.

[lethal wyvern]

DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.

[cyan bone]

We do have a deeply technical group of leaders on Illuvium Zero - Johnny (CTO), Theodor (Architect), Julien (Team Lead), Igor (Backend Lead).

We are also continueing to hire for the team to expedite both Open Beta and future feature updates for Zero.

[merry edge]

I agree... Nick and Johnny are great... now let's get things done and back on the right road

[cyan bone]

Yep, let's keep the Land supply low and make Overworld, Zero and Arena (wave 1 of games) a triumphant success at Open Beta.

Let's ensure Land Owners can profit from their Lands and only consider future Land Sales if there is good reason to do so.

[wary sand]

Oh? Any CSR roles? It's always the biggest critics that turn into the biggest supporters if convinced lol. (All jokes aside ironically I am looking for a job that can show CSR skills for a job I'm trying to get here in a couple months, if you guys know any legit opportunities feel free to reach out)

[cyan bone]

Luke and Ben are beasts on the recruitment front, LinkedIn as well as the website are usually best places to check.

Certainly CS Team will expand closer and post Open Beta. 🙂

Certainly words hold little water without proof and action.

Leave it with me, I want to look at ways we can do better when it comes to sharing updates (potentially video updates) in a more transparent manner.

[radiant sky]

There's an upcoming townhall about iz

And more Updates basically won't Change sentiment, very short term yes... but not over a Long period of time.
As you said, without action....

[long tendon]

Corporate social responsibility?

[broken roost]

Since this is a buisness, we can probably agree that the only reason to sell more land will be if it becomes profitable. There WAS though another reason to sell more land, which was if the 20k land plots didn't produce enough fuel to sustain the demand. Intrestingly enough this was ''solved'' in IIP39, by contradicting kierans exact words that ''land will be the only soure of fuel'', and allowing DAO to infinitly print fuel if needed.

[reef otter]

Hey guys i can't seem to login to illuvium zero atm just wondering if i need to update first?

[mortal surge]

customer service representative

[long tendon]

too many acronyms lol

i get confused now

[mortal surge]

i mean… what field are you in that corporate social responsibility is your first thought

id say stop listening to main stream media so much haha

[trail forge]

https://tenor.com/view/always-sunny-in-philadelphia-charlie-day-gif-5752726375803786258

[vivid cipher]

Please ser, don’t make fun of my people

[mortal mural]

https://tenor.com/view/bird-person-ricknd-morty-culture-dick-move-gif-10475280

[vivid cipher]

Illuvium Zero Tech Update Archive 2
7/17 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
7/24 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
8/1 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
8/7 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
8/14 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
8/29 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message
9/11 ⤵️
#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

[wary sand]

Customer service representative. Also yo, it's been a minute man hope you're doing well.

[wary sand]

I mean that'd be super weird vs just buffing up the current lands to produce more fuel but... yeah thats a good point. I also didn't realize that's something they did

[long tendon]

Yeah man. Its been awhile. Nice to see you in discord again.

[oblique solar]

why is illvium zero still unable to make money?

is this a scam ??

[lethal wyvern]

DMs are scams

Mods and Team members will never DM you.
Never trust advice or links received in DMs.

Beta access, giveaways, and promotions are not given out via DM. Scams are designed to trick you into installing malicious software to gain access to your wallet or to convince you to enter your seed phrase into a website. Never give your private key (12 to 24-word seed phrase) to anyone.

Support is not provided via DMs

Support is handled publicly, or in threads within the Illuvium Discord. People offering support via DM are scammers.

Please follow the instructions pinned in #report-scammers to report bad actors so we can remove them from the server.

[snow river]

You're late to a coin again, that's all. Oh, or it could be that you're early. Always so difficult to tell which is which.😋

[oblique solar]

what coin do you mean?

[odd bone]

hi can I ask why do you need so many material labs?

[timber glacier]

I'm assuming chances of finding blueprints in Open Beta will be pretty low, so more labs gives more chances of finding something.
For the Alpha it's pretty unneccesary, I just built it up to see how many I could fit on a single plot (and have the resources to run daily).

[odd bone]

oh ok I see thanks

[sharp elk]

Since the DAO was always going to provide 95% of the fuel, this quote is a little strange.

Maybe there were other words, before or after those ‘exact words’, that provided additional information or context.

There was never a real need to sell more lands to produce more fuel, because it is far easier to just increase the outputs of the ILZ buildings, which would increase fuel production.

[timber glacier]

With some lategame changes after labs/scanners are maxed out, I can fit up to 23 Statues, should the bonus stack...

[radiant sky]

Haha nice.
But you first have to Find 23 biodata 😬
You would all stack up the Same affinity? Like the dominant one of your Region?

[timber glacier]

Depends how the bonus works. If it's decreasing the chance of finding nothing or if it's just boosting the relative chance between affinities.

[vivid cipher]

Illuvium zero is not producing anything on chain at this point. The games are all still in testing. So there’s no FUELS for in-game revenue to be created or received, bought or sold.

[hearty cradle]

im sorry land holders

[slim wigeon]

Thank you Jag what would we do without you 😜

[hearty cradle]

its gonna be okay

ish

👀

[cyan dew]

what happened fr?

[hearty cradle]

skins

[tardy falcon]

Barren lands with no returns to date... wonder if the fuel/bp production/sales will end up outperforming other returns in the franchise 🤔 That would be a def polar shift.

[timber glacier]

what about them?

[little moon]

Any news on the minting window?

[hasty topaz]

Yup guys any news when is it going down

[vivid cipher]

No date has been shared yet. @hasty topaz @little moon

[hasty topaz]

Thnx mate

[worldly flume]

After i find all 5 biodata, should i sell the scanners?

[amber atlas]

Howdy folks, back from leave and follow up self imposed blackout for a week while I caught up on everything.

[pearl dagger]

only if you want the space for something - I'm still upgrading and scanning to see the impact on my costs

[worldly flume]

I was thinking to make room for research labs

[pearl dagger]

If you do remove it, be sure to build any data banks you'll want - you can't build them without a scanner

[amber atlas]

Here's my little summary on Zero:

• Beta development continues and the tech is really solid, really impressed by what he Theodor (client design) and Igor (backend design) have done under @spring mist's guidance... a few new hires will keep delivery speed high

• @grizzled jay has fully taken over as lead designer, allowing Zero to get heaps of attention from a design and balance perspective (don't worry I still stick my nose in often)

• We can look to move Minting Window to be earlier rather than later, no need to wait until just before Open Beta

• Discussing with <@&1107754494466469919> some ideas to give Land Holders more rewards between now and release

[marsh sage]

Welcome back Johnny. Good to hear and thank you for the updates.

[oak solstice]

Thanks for the update Johnny. Wen more @amber atlas videos?

[oak solstice]

Make sure you leave 1 scanner if u wanna build a data bank

[amber atlas]

Not any time soon, I'm not a big fan of being in the spotlight 😊

[oak solstice]

That's why the videos are 🔥Johnny 🤣

[celest wagon]

when johnny comes he always comes with good news!!!

[fervent slate]

Thank you, Johnny, for the great news!
The ZERO game itself is very interesting.

[amber atlas]

Man I know where I should come if I need a positivity injection 🙂

[celest wagon]

we love you man!

[bitter phoenix]

Thanks for the update. It’s always appreciated when you pop in with good news. 🫶🏻

[neat zenith]

how to reduce market transfer duration?

[reef vapor]

yo guys is the minting window open?

[bitter phoenix]

Not yet

[hearty cradle]

looks mid

[bitter phoenix]

Wip

[hearty cradle]

i dont see skins for ranger and mozart gonna sell well

they are too small next to illuvials on arena

and OW is single player

[trail forge]

Battleboard skins can be pretty nice though

[hearty cradle]

now the leak confirms it

[trail forge]

For those into skin buying

[hearty cradle]

one of the reason i sold my plots last year

battleboard should sell better

[bitter phoenix]

Yeh lucky for beyond they get them as rewards. 🙄

[hearty cradle]

can other people see your board?

[trail forge]

I imagine itll be 50/50 when a match starts whose board you're on?
I'm not sure though

[hearty cradle]

how does it work for TFT?

[trail forge]

Well you have your home board where you spend planning phase and then when a round starts you either travel to someone elses or someone else travels to yours

[iron veldt]

Do you know that we love you ?

hype news for landowner’s finally

[timber glacier]

Then we just need a huge winner screen where the ranger shows off

think character vs. screens in fighting games

[hearty cradle]

ur reaching

[timber glacier]

Think about it some more.
If everytime an arena fight ends and you see two identical rangers on the endscreen, eventually a lot of players will want to customize their look just to stand out.
Not saying it'll raise the prices of skins a lot, but it'll at least give more incentive to customize.

If it remains as is, where you barely see the armor at all, then skins aren't going to be interesting at all.

[hearty cradle]

sure it may help. show the skins for a couple of seconds.
i mean we have known how the ranger looks like on the board for 18 months

[timber glacier]

Just consider some characters, who got iconic status from having just 14min of screen time in a 2h movie.

[hearty cradle]

people not gonna remember the rangers. they gonna remember the illuvials

[timber glacier]

I think people are going to remember ranger names and players, since there's a limited number of illuvials that everyone uses.
Ranger looks and names will stand out more, so having something like this is what I meant:

Wouldn't that be a little more incentive to skin your armor?

[bitter phoenix]

People are going to run around in the overworld in skins. Imo

[hearty cradle]

its a single player

people buy skins to flex

[bitter phoenix]

I’ve never played a game that had cosmics that I played without putting on skins

[bitter phoenix]

People will still buy skins even for single player

They will play arena with skins too

[timber glacier]

Same here, but those are mostly mmorpgs where your character is what everyone else sees at all times. So your skins get more screen time

I'm hoping we'll get more chances to show off stuff like this, otherwise it's just going to be a huge missed opportunity for the game

[bitter phoenix]

Yes I would imagine it’s way more fun if other people can see them but I still think players will want to customise their ranger

[timber glacier]

yeah, OW players definetly will, since it's more visible there

Depending on just how expensive it is though, some will opt for the cheaper ones just to not have the default

[bitter phoenix]

I think your idea of a big screen at the back of arena that shows off the ranger at point through match is cool

[hearty cradle]

there is an exception tho
genshin impact waifu

[bitter phoenix]

Yeh I’m more an adamant armour in RuneScape kind of player

[hearty cradle]

Looks good

[timber glacier]

probably has the same issues as health bars on the sides of the arena, but one could easily make a similar screen as an overlay before and after the fights

[radiant sky]

Maybe with an animation where the humilated Ranger has to kneel in front of the flexing winner?

[bitter phoenix]

Savage

[sharp elk]

Who doesn't love to feel humiliated when playing a computer game. 😏

[iron veldt]

no league of legends player for sure

[sharp elk]

That’s funny. I played league 4 hours a day for years.

[iron veldt]

I’m also a masochist

🤣

[sharp elk]

In the end I had to go cold turkey and request that my account be locked.

[iron veldt]

For real? 😄

[sharp elk]

Yes addictions are real. Just took too long to realise.

[iron veldt]

i was top 150 Fiora in EUW

[sharp elk]

Congrats.

[iron veldt]

i hate lol, nothing to be proud of

😅

just wanted to say that i also played a lot of time in this hellish game

[sharp elk]

Yeah. It eats your life. But maybe people can learn something from the experience. Personally I regret playing the game so much. But I’m past that now. 🙂

[iron veldt]

Personally i don’t regret any minute playing videogames.

Games are my passion - full love -

[mortal mural]

Never underestimate otaku waifu husbands lovers. That game hit the nail so hard probably even devs didn’t see it coming.

[hearty cradle]

we need chibi rangers

[mortal mural]

Chibilluvium max skins sells

[fervent slate]

Can I have more than one of the same Blueprint on more than one piece of land, but only one can be Minted?

[amber atlas]

you can get one of each per land plot, and you can mint one of each per land plot

[neat zenith]

just realized, if i transfer a land from my wallet to another wallet and use another account to play on it, everything gets wiped 😅 GG

[mortal mural]

Did you transfer it?

[neat zenith]

yes

[fervent slate]

Thank you.
I will hurry up and try to get blueprints from other lands as well.

[cyan bone]

This won't be the case for Open Beta

[amber atlas]

In open beta only XP and Data Items (BioData, Unminted Blueprints and Facts) get wiped. Structures and Resources will persist.

Credits and Builders will probably be account bound, they won't be wiped but they won't be transferred. This is not locked in, Dmitriy is working on it and we will get community and council agreement via ICCP.

[radiant sky]

What's the reasoning of biodata and facts getting wiped with a Transfer?

[barren lotus]

i would think that gold farms can farm resources to build the requirements of the blueprint, imagine if they got a super rare blueprint they just have to pass that land among them, that wont be good for us

[radiant sky]

I don't really understand what you saying 😅

[sly folio]

Wait what?

[sly folio]

They said before it was going to be a full wipe..

[iron veldt]

I think Johnny was talking not about the time now - after release, when you should sell land