dnd-discussion

[wooden silo]

Milestone!

[glad arch]

Any level disparity in a party is just a feel bad moment

[severe rampart]

What the hell then? that penalty is more unecessary

[hot reef]

Will you stay a level behind, or is it temporary?

[wheat jasper]

So you will be one level behind all the time?

[sleek flax]

Seriously, going to get more and more awkward…

[wooden silo]

I will stay a level behind

[severe rampart]

Yeah, no, please talk to the DM.

[hot reef]

That’s incredibly harsh then

[sleek flax]

Oh my god this DM needs second opinions

[severe rampart]

Terrible

[sleek flax]

Like tell him to ask anyone if thats a good idea

[jolly canyon]

Weird. I wouldn't punish my player for wanting to swap this early into a campaign or whatever. That's needles
Bad dm moment imo

[severe rampart]

It's a horrible idea. Especially since when they're tier 2, you'll be tier 1

[glad arch]

Session 2 you can always pull a 'john decided adventuring wasnt for him after all, 20 seconds later you meet Johnn'

[severe rampart]

Talk to your DM.

[wheat jasper]

Sounds like the DM has been talked to.

[harsh dragon]

Resilient (Con) helps with getting counterspelled, Warcaster does not

[glad arch]

Talk better /hj

[severe rampart]

"hey DM, I feel like if I stay a level behind that'll make an awkward power gap in the party, I know I changed classes but I feel like it's early in the campaign for it to matter that much, at the very least could I eventually catch up with them?"

[wooden silo]

Talk back to the DM sounds a bit scary... 😅

[severe rampart]

You gotta speak up

[sleek flax]

Okay so idea for you to tackle this, message him something to the effect of:

Hey! I’m comfortable with a temporary penalty for swapping characters, but a long-term penalty like always being a level below could pose problems. Could you ask any DM friends for ideas on more suitable penalties? Thank you so much.

[glad arch]

Its not even just a level regression, sounds like stats and background stuck as well. So youre also running a 'low' int artificer

[jolly canyon]

Never allow a DM to power trip. Even if you get kicked ots worth speaking your mind. As long as you're civil of course

[hot reef]

If you have a dexterity of 13 or higher and they allow multiclassing, you can also just do that
This also works as a comparison for how bad being a level behind is

[normal junco]

if at any point other PCs die, do they re-join with a character that is 1 level behind, or do they start at level 1?

[sleek flax]

They join* at party level

[jolly canyon]

Same level

[hot reef]

I think they’re asking in the case of this person

[sleek flax]

Ooh good question

[jolly canyon]

Ahh good question then

[severe rampart]

That is unfair. At that point say "Screw it, my PC died, meet their brother/sister who has the same name."

[normal junco]

under normal circumstances, yes. thats w3hat supposed to happen. what i meant for Echo was that if his DM dropped the new character back to 1 or back a level

[sleek flax]

Gods that would be awful…

[wooden silo]

He doesn't want people repeating backgrounds, which leaves me stuck with soldier background >_<

[glad arch]

Thats such a non-issue tbh

[severe rampart]

Eugh...

[jolly canyon]

Bro what 😭

[sleek flax]

Why does repeating backgrounds at all matter I am WEEPING

[severe rampart]

Is this a new DM?

[glad arch]

Arent there like a dozen backgrounds? How many players are there

[normal junco]

dropping one level would indeed be awful for the PCs individually, for the party as a group, and for the logistics of the DM trying to balance encounters.

[jolly canyon]

Who is this DM. Two people can have a soldier background but completely different lives and upbringing

[normal junco]

did this DM request that you have art made for your character, and that you had to pay for that art?

[jolly canyon]

Rhetorical quest btw. Don't answer

No witch hunting

[wooden silo]

The DM is not new to my knowledge, I am new tho! So idk what is good or bad, I retired my PC cause the whole party was good, and I was evil, so I don't wanna be evil anymore, but the character backstory makes them very evil

[glad arch]

I dont think those ever get to playing

[sleek flax]

Gonna take this seriously just in casee: They played a session so I assume not an art scam, good question thoughhh

[wooden silo]

Oh I know I don't want to hurt my DM

[severe rampart]

They're not gonna get hurt. Talk it out like adults.

[normal junco]

your DM is hurting you

[jolly canyon]

Good but yea your dm isn't doing a great job imo

[sleek flax]

Ah yeah evil characters usually dont work well in non-evil parties, you took a very mature and reasonable route of changing that

Especially when no session 0

[glad arch]

Okay thered 16 backgrounds in 2024, how is soldier your only option

[severe rampart]

probably free rules

[wooden silo]

^

[severe rampart]

They're new so I wouldn't expect them to have access to the books.

[sleek flax]

The hits just keep coming

[twilit sail]

Nah when you encounter your dm you gotta roll for initiative

[wooden silo]

Thats right! I only have the eberron book, tasha something, xanathar something, and thats pretty much it!

[loud tendon]

Let's not exaggerate things either. The dm is hurting their game progress. They are not hurting the player deliberately.

It sounds like they asked to switch to artificer from fighter, the dm said okay but it would be under these conditions.. a player agreed and now has a bit of buyers remorse.

We are assuming a lot of villain dm when we dont have a full picture.

Does it suck? Yeah.. would i have done it as a dm? No..

[jolly canyon]

Eberron mentioned

[wooden silo]

WHAT?!! 😭 🤣

[sleek flax]

Did you see my suggestion for a message Nidi?

[glad arch]

Tbh it seems to mostly be calling out potential inexperience in dming, which another inexperienced player might not catch on to

[wooden silo]

OH i dont regret, I just dont wanna incovinience the party! Yes I did see it!

I just dont want the party to go: go tank
me: Yeah, I am not tanking

[glad arch]

Besides the art scam question it hasnt seemed that hostile of a convo to me

[sleek flax]

I really hope this works out for DM and player

[jolly canyon]

Agree with Jayn. Nidi the person is fine and dandy. Nidi's player experience is getting hurt.

[tranquil wolf]

In my upcoming session i wanted to have like a massive chamber with a single pedestal in the centre that has a book on “the perfect being” with the only thing written in the book being “can you see me?”

Is that tuff

[severe rampart]

If you don't want to tank, you don't have to

"Guys, I'm an artificer and level 1, I can't tank."

[wooden silo]

but then the party will die...

[sleek flax]

Could you explain the meaning?

[normal junco]

the DM is actually making more work for themselves by "punishing" the player. the DM is also punishing the other party members by reducing their collective ability to handle encounters. like, the other players did nothing, but are being punished.

[severe rampart]

They would have more AC than you and they would have more HP, I promise they're not dying.

[sleek flax]

Oh thats totally not on you! Party comps should never be priority over player happiness

[wooden silo]

We are a sorcerer, a cleric, a rogue and a artificer

[twilit sail]

I would suggest you start with a sneak attack phb to the face

Then action surge knee to the gut

[tranquil wolf]

The meaning being is its in the room, i was going to have it lead into their first main bossfight

[sleek flax]

Cleric can handle health help, I thinkk

[glad arch]

Clerics can be tabky

[severe rampart]

Then have them wait till you can get steel defender

Clerics can tank, Sorcerers can tank too

[wooden silo]

Sorcerers can tank? 0-0

[severe rampart]

Draconic Sorcerer

[normal junco]

certain sorcerers can tank

[wooden silo]

Ohhh I seeeee I didn't knew that

[severe rampart]

But you can still use False Life get some more HP

[sleek flax]

I don’t really understand the meaning of the book being named “the perfect being”, is this an invisible egomaniac?

[glad arch]

Never underestimate shield and absorn elements

[normal junco]

certainly anything can tank, if they reach certain levels and have built themselves up as such

[sleek flax]

Theres also always health potions in a pinch lol, if you can get em

[loud tendon]

Someone literally said "your dm is hurting you".. a lot of comments have been about them being a bad dm.
Im merely stepping in so we dont head down a more negative direction

[strong wave]

What does second wind do

[wooden silo]

Thank you all! You have helped me a lot!~ I try to ask my DM about a lesser punishment but if not I just roll with it! 👍 😊

[severe rampart]

cracks neck starts tanking with 13 AC, Dodge, Shield, and a dream

[glad arch]

Most important part is you dont need any party composition, sure sometimes it might be nice but if you wanna go 4 rogues go 4 rogues

[tranquil wolf]

Its like a demonic artefact specifically designed for this being

[sleek flax]

I really wouldn’t roll with it if it starts really bothering you, no d&d is better than bad d&d

[normal junco]

yeah, that was me. i was reacting to them not wanting to hurt their dm. my meaning was that the street of respect goes both ways. i jumped the gun and didnt exactly provide context.

[loud tendon]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/classes#ClassFeatures5 you can read about 2014 fighter features here.

[sleek flax]

Maybe ask the original question in #dm-discussion for more help, sorry

[glad arch]

In the end the goal of dnd is having fun, as long as your party and dm collectivly has fun (that includes you) it doesnt matter how you get there

For some thats optimized parties going against super bosses for others thats boblin the goblin the 10str barbarian

[normal junco]

at the end of the day, if the DM is applying these rules to all players equally, in a non-antagonistic way, it will just end up with a bit of awkward and slightly confusing balancing issues at best. the adventures could be absolute fire and everyone has fun. i don't know enough about it all. with my limited context, it just doesn't feel right to me. but that's me.

[severe rampart]

I have Bob the Goblin Paladin, Oath of Devotion (Strength)

Why are all Goblins named bob or boblin

[sleek flax]

Cause rhymes and puns! :D Love our rhymes and puns!

[errant crag]

My DM is asking the group if we'd prefer the game be a "Tragic Epic" or a "Heroic Epic" and I'm not really sure what he's asking, from what he described Tragic Epic just sounds like bad things keep happening regardless of what we do

[rough basalt]

Almost made a huge mistake.

[severe rampart]

Rhymes and Puns aren't very fun, I hate jokes and kids for one.

[rough basalt]

Started hyperfixating on a West March idea. But it did cure my lack of an idea for the system it was gonna be for.

So mission failed successfully?

[sleek flax]

My love for them is second to none, I love them more than I love the sun

[errant crag]

Why hate kids

[wooden silo]

@sleek flaxSince you are helping me out, would you say I could tell my DM to just let me put my new character in before we level up at the end of next session or is that even worse? That way we all be the same LV. So far I been told to play my fighter until we level up. Sorry if it is a bother to ask this question bunny!

[real hatch]

Where can I find a group or DM to play?

[sleek flax]

Probably would say heroic then

[normal junco]

Heroic Epic: "Against all odds, we are going to save the world or die trying."
Tragic Epic: "We are going to die. We will not survive. But if we do this, and we do this right, the world might just survive."

[severe rampart]

Whenever I hear them I rip my guts, no ands, ifs, nor buts.

[errant crag]

I will never understand hating kids, they're born into a world they have no say in and hating them seems, ironically enough, childish.

[sleek flax]

Oh, no bother at all! I think a good compromise to propose would be making your artificer the same level as everyone else and introducing them upon level-up.

[severe rampart]

Kids, pink, as in "I'm kidding"

[autumn goblet]

You are given a scroll of Resurrection in real life, you can only use it once. Who is someone in real life that didn't die if old age and has been dead for no more than 100 years, and why?

Id pick Steve Irwin

[eager marsh]

Michael Jackson. He’s the king

Shit that’s good too

[errant crag]

I have not seen a single person in my life say "I hate kids" to mean "I hate when people are kidding"

[real hatch]

I was about to say the same thing

[severe rampart]

I just wanted to rhyme, I was running out of time 😔

[sleek flax]

They were not being serious

[eager marsh]

Michael Jackson and Steve Irwin are definitely really good picks tbh

[real hatch]

But to pick other one… it would be Kurt Cobain. He was so nice, he defended many women in his concerts

[sleek flax]

Okayyy this is why we stick to DND in DND chat

[severe rampart]

Okay folks, let's not get into that here...

[autumn goblet]

Okay

[eager marsh]

Every scandal against MJ was proven wrong.

[autumn goblet]

Sorry

[severe rampart]

Folks folks

So how about them dungeons huh? haha...

[sleek flax]

Hahah

[real hatch]

OH RIGHT

[severe rampart]

oh and the dragons, don't get me started on the dragons!

[eager marsh]

Sorry dungeons have been outlawed. They aren’t safe

[sleek flax]

Okay I really want to meet a dragon

[errant crag]

My mind immediately went to Eddie Guerrero, but it would be too late anyways

[glass granite]

I Don’t do enough dungeons, nor dragons, for a game called dungeons and dragons

[sleek flax]

I haven’t yet, I love dragons :(

[eager marsh]

I’m right here

[round vector]

I just bought Faster, Purple Wyrm, and I can't believe I didn't get this months ago. I want to run this so bad.

[real hatch]

I’m making a document, just for fun. Writing core memories of my oc :3. just to give hints for my dm of how to use the characters

[sleek flax]

Come into one of my campaigns and fight us pleaseeee

[real hatch]

What’s your campaign about?

[eager marsh]

Ah you want the campaign to end with a TPK. Daring choice

[sleek flax]

XD Maybeeee

[round vector]

I literally just bought the big book of TPKs

[sleek flax]

I feel like I’d more enjoy an epilogue though :) Preferences

[normal junco]

be sure to include the absolute stupidest jingle for some dive restaurant that closed decades ago.

[round vector]

Faster, Purple Worm can only end in TPKs, though

[sleek flax]

Sorry, newer, purple worm…?

[round vector]

It's a book of 15 one shot adventures

[wooden silo]

It looks like the campaing will be now exp based

[sleek flax]

Sounds terrifying

[real hatch]

That would be a such great idea. Specially since my oc is an elf

[normal junco]

that sounds like the title for the Canadian version.

[wooden silo]

Idk if that helps but

It sounds like it does?

[real hatch]

That restaurant was closed centuries ago

[round vector]

Every single one of them is a 1st level adventure that pits PCs against something much, much bigger than them

[sleek flax]

If he keeps your level under everyone elses it won’t be

[round vector]

The premise of Faster, Purple Worm is that every single session ends in a TPK, always

[wooden silo]

DM said thats non negotiable

I am one level down

[sleek flax]

Okay I’m going to go scream into a pillow for you

[wooden silo]

Aww thanks bunny! Is not the end of the world tho right?

[umbral girder]

Speaking of dragons I need to prepare my next couple of dragon boss fights

Young black and ancient red for two different groups

[sleek flax]

Of course not I just feel bad for you

[severe rampart]

Me too!

[sleek flax]

Awesomeee

[severe rampart]

Adult White Dragon

[sleek flax]

Yoooo! What color eyes?

[normal junco]

are 5.5e white dragons still kinda dumb?

[severe rampart]

Blue :)

[sleek flax]

I know thats a strange question, work with me here—BLUE EYES WHITE DRAGON

[umbral girder]

Still low INT but with new magic ice abilities

[severe rampart]

The dragon is actually ||their dead party member back to life.||

[normal junco]

how different do they look from 5e?

[sleek flax]

Plot twisttt, love it

[severe rampart]

they died with a lot of magic items

[umbral girder]

Spikier like a beared dragon, bright blue eyes, pink wings.

And a lot more stout

[normal junco]

but not Themberchaud stout, right?

[umbral girder]

More muscle mixed with the body fat

Stocky I think is the word?

[normal junco]

there ya go

[umbral girder]

Like a power lifter?

The pink in their wings is apparently because they pump a lot of blood there due to their extremely cold environment which is cool.

[warm meadow]

Hello

[normal junco]

howdy

[warm meadow]

My friend plays D&D, and it seemed really interesting to me. Can you tell me more about D&D

[umbral girder]

Greetings

[normal junco]

well, what part of D&D are you interested about hearing first?

like what aprt of it interested you?

[umbral girder]

It’s roleplaying with fantasy rules and monsters. DM sets a scenario for the team of players, the players make choices, and then the DM tells them the results of such choices.

[warm meadow]

The D&D characters seemed really interesting to me

[warm meadow]

How does the DM make the rules

[umbral girder]

The DM acts as the referee to the rules which takes up 1 chapter in the Player’s Handbook mainly

The core rulebooks come with mostly options for character creation, rewards, tips, monsters, etc.

[quick coyote]

is booksharing allowed? here

[umbral girder]

No

[jolly canyon]

Content Sharing in D&DB is encouraged here but not done here.

[umbral girder]

In terms of characters the game usually has 3 primary parts that have their own mechanics and can expand more.

These being Class, Species, and Background

[jolly canyon]

With your campaign team I mean

[warm meadow]

Which version or edition of the rulebook do you have

[hybrid tartan]

Hey real quick me and some friends are trying to make a dnd campaign and we are wondering what platform to use that we dont have to pay a sht ton of money on so we can make character sheets freely and do all the other stuff. The dm has the actual hard copy books so we dont need the digital ones, but with dnd beyond you have to pay for the books in order to create races of certain kinds

[umbral girder]

I own both 5e (from 2014) and 5.5e (the current one)

I play a lot of 5.5e, it’s actually been years since I’ve used the old system

[jolly canyon]

D&DB has free character sheets i think 🤔 I don't know actually hmmm

[umbral girder]

Yeah from adventure modules

[quick coyote]

where then

[jolly canyon]

Ahh so none from like free rules

[sleek flax]

Usually community servers have resources

[umbral girder]

It might be for free, unsure

[sleek flax]

Or ask some d&d playing friends

[umbral girder]

With the group you are playing with

[reef tundra]

The roleplay is so fun

[jolly canyon]

#looking-for-community often has people who have content sharing for their community. Joining a community just for the link and not interacting with said community is a bit weird I guess but if you talk to the community people I'm sure you'll get a Win-Win situation. A community to be apart of and content sharing.

[sleek flax]

Yesss! I always want to roleplay and I get so hyped about it before games

[minor cargo]

You could make character sheets in like a PDF or even just a Google Doc/Sheet.

If you're using a VTT (virtual table top), you might be able to put your character sheets in there. Like for Roll20, you can just put in your class abilities, even if you don't have that content directly in Roll20.

[warm meadow]

Tell me the name of the book maybe my friend has it and I can borrow it

[sly crest]

Have you tried any of the new subclasses or UA?

Path of the Wild Heart sounds really cool

[umbral girder]

#1026901431132885064

[hybrid tartan]

@minor cargo okay but say the character i want to make is a centaur both dnd beyond and roll20 require me to pay for the book that has those playable races in it. Its stupid annoying

[umbral girder]

That’s with their character creators

Even then both have systems in place to just build it out

[minor cargo]

Yeah, to echo Nealen, you can just manual put it into the system. It’s a little time consuming but it should just be a one time thing.

[umbral girder]

Using it like a character sheet.

[round vector]

I really want to run the one shot in Faster, Purple Worm where a 1st level party ends up fighting Strahd

[umbral girder]

I thought that was a level 5 adventure?

[hybrid tartan]

Alright ill give it a shot

[knotty vine]

One thing that was really weird in 2014 is that death knights werent a legendary creature in 2014

[knotty vine]

All one shots in the faster purple worm boom are level 1

[crisp verge]

hello in my campaign i would like my players to care for food and stuff so how can i count how much calories does golliath or gnome need?

[knotty vine]

Becaues you guessed it everyone dies

[umbral girder]

Odd I read the book and it said “all these adventures are for level 5 parties”

[knotty vine]

Where?

[sleek flax]

Uhhh dont do by calories do by number of rations

[knotty vine]

Everybody Dies, Volume 1 contains fifteen stand-alone adventures for use with the fifth edition Dungeons & Dragons rulebooks. All are designed for 4-6 1st-level characters, all can be played in a single session, and all of them are utterly lethal.

https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/fpw1/introduction

[crisp verge]

ye but i mostly want that because i want to encourage searching around dungeons and i need more things for them to find so for example if i say that here they found pack of crackers or sth like that its obviuosly not enough to feed goliath but a gnome maybe

[round vector]

I'm an Eberron fan and "Everybody Dies on a Lightning Train" looks like an absolute hoot

[knotty vine]

Do players in your world not start off with rations?

[round vector]

I am so unsurprised to find Strahd in this book

[knotty vine]

Demogorgon is somewhere in there too

[round vector]

Like of course he'd be here, why would you not use him?

[sleek flax]

I think you should use rations as tracking no matter what food they find, but this is completely your call

[knotty vine]

Yeah getting into the every single food item they find seems kinda

[crisp verge]

yes why?

man this game is complicated

[knotty vine]

If you think food and water is complex I think your brain might explode when it comes to spell casting

[glad arch]

You can make food and water really complex if youd like

The concepts of 'rations' is very easy though

[knotty vine]

yeah

[twilit sail]

Yeah you have x rations that u use per day

[sleek flax]

Label them rations, different characters could eat at different rates (2 per meal, 1 per meal) and that can be the difference you’re speaking of

[crisp verge]

so instead of food what can they find in like dungeons and stuff

[glad arch]

Usual dungeon stuff is monsters and treasure

[wheat jasper]

Grubs

[twilit sail]

Magic item, MONEY

[sleek flax]

Omg is this gonna be dungeon meshi???

Adventuring for food!

[zinc hare]

How would one increase his ac exponentially at level 1 assuming he's a warforged paladin with 19 already

[twilit sail]

Arent a lot of dnd monsters sentient

[glad arch]

You dont increase AC exponentially

[crisp verge]

obviusly but i want them to REALLY search everywhere they are or at least have a reason to

[zinc hare]

Down the track I mean,

[knotty vine]

plate armor shield defnese fighting style

[sleek flax]

We don’t think about that in this case…

[zinc hare]

Peachy thabkyou

It doesn't need to go to the moon but I want to spec into it alot

[glad arch]

+x armor +x shield, ring of defence, cloak of protection

[sleek flax]

Okay, but now I’m thinking of a food centric campaign and am I in love? A little bit.

[knotty vine]

wouldnt recommned throwing magic items in just yet

[zinc hare]

I'm playing eith my current group and am the only person to have dnd experience so I'm making a support character. High ac and attention draw

[twilit sail]

Imagine eating a goblin when one of your party is also one

[glad arch]

Other then (magic) items theres not that much you can do to increase your AC

[zinc hare]

That's calm

[crisp verge]

your welcome i guess

kind off like that show delicious in dungeon

[knotty vine]

Ah canniblism

[glad arch]

19 AC as a paladin seems like you dont have defensive fighting style, so thats really the only thing i can think of outside items

[zinc hare]

Cool beans, we are level 1

[glad arch]

Shield of faith is a concentration spell +2 ac for duration, warlock dip or a feat that lets you pick up 'shield' allows +5 ac as a reaction (until start of your next turn)

Do remember though no amount of AC is gonna save you from a dex save

(Or any other save effect for that matter)

[icy crater]

gotta love when you randomly get kicked from a campain with no reason givin just gone

[twilit sail]

Lucky feat...

[icy crater]

like i was in this campain and then i check today and im no longer in the sever on discord or on roll 20

[glad arch]

Thats... not AC?

[twilit sail]

Thas whgdgfr

[knotty vine]

Guess not

[reef tundra]

Ah sorry to hear that :(
Ah well, there are always bad ones sometimes. I say you dodged a bullet if they kick you with no heads up

[icy crater]

yeah.. sucks to because i had another campain die beacuse the DM got burned out and had some health things come up (Hope he is ok) in the same week lol

[torpid hound]

Chat I have a joke for you
What's a Monk's favorite magazine? MAD (Multiple-Ability Dependent)

[sly crest]

hey, who doesn't love Alf?

[torpid hound]

What's that?

The alien guy?

[sly crest]

I think he's the little dude on the cover of Mad Magazine

[sly crest]

that too

[idle oar]

Alfred E. Neuman is the fictitious MAD magazine mascot

[sly crest]

yeah, him

[rough basalt]

Getting a bit frustrated at my creative block concerning tabletop prep.

[crimson gulch]

just stop prepping then

i dont do ANY prep if the mood is not moving me to do s

[errant crag]

Forcing yourself to prep when the juices aren't flowing will just be frustrating

[knotty vine]

When I'm in a not having a bias in favor of casters competition and my opponent is WoTC:

[rough basalt]

It's just the campaigns session 0s are within the next 2 weeks and I got a whole pile of stuff I wanna have done by session 1. I realize thats basically 2 and a half weeks to 3 weeks, but I overthink and waste more time.

Also I got HB, and some writing i need to get done in a week which is the more pressing one.

[jovial talon]

That’s what DM approved steroi- I mean homebrew is for.

[crimson gulch]

you dont need much to get started

i write about a postit notes worth of prep for most sessions

or less

[errant crag]

Every time I see the martial caster gap get brought up some of my braincells die

[knotty vine]

Lol

[paper portal]

good meowning everypony :3

[knotty vine]

The only reason people think there is a martial caster gap is casue stories online about casters doing crazy things but in reality thats really like 1-6% of games

Like yes dnd has weird wording where it can do some crazy things

But it takes a lot of reading between the lines to make it work

[severe rampart]

You know you can just say everybody, right? /ref

[paper portal]

nah there absolutely can be a martial caster divide it depends on the table tbh

theres a lot of different stuff that can affect it

[knotty vine]

thats the THING there can be

but more often then not there wont be

At every table I have yet to play yet I have yet to feel a gap in power beteween me and casters

[paper portal]

i feel like making general statements like that is kinda unhelpful because nobody here really knows what the majority is

Obviously as an optimizer I see nothing but power gaps

[knotty vine]

I just hardly ever seen power gaps imo

The only time I have is when me and a elementals monk were fighting a shadow demon

[rough basalt]

Well, here's my issue. Worldbuilding, coding, mapmaking, homebrewing. None of my current projects are pure official or a module.

[knotty vine]

With no magic items

[errant crag]

Martial caster gap always has and always will be a DM issue and nothing more

[paper portal]

For sure I just don't think anecdotal experience is necessarily representative of the whole

[rough basalt]

The only pure official one is still a homebrew adventure, for a different system

[lethal bobcat]

reading back some convo messages, exponential AC increase would actually be fun

[knotty vine]

when are we playing pathfinder 2e /j

[rough basalt]

Thats the pf2e one

[crimson gulch]

why work that hard? the game runs fine without homebrew.
code? what? its a pen an paper game, dont do that
i rarely make any maps

[knotty vine]

When are we playing through 🗣️

I love making maps

[crimson gulch]

so many far more talented artists give away maps every day on the net i just google what i need

[rough basalt]

1: I like making my own stuff.
2: Yes it does
3: I don't trust people online, and the automation allows me to handle dming.

[paper portal]

Real

[knotty vine]

I also dont trust people online

[paper portal]

The only way you can guarantee something is exactly how you want it is to do it yourself

[lethal bobcat]

I wish someone made all of The Labyrinth movie into one battlemap spanning the whole thing in 5ft tiles but no luck thusfar

[crimson gulch]

well if you like it, enjoy the process, but if your here complaing about it im worried

[rough basalt]

Tho I watched a map from Matt Colville that really helped

a map, god, a video

[knotty vine]

I really wanted maps of the inside of baldur's gate

So I got to work

[rough basalt]

He showed a video on how he made an adventure from looking at a Czepeku map

[crimson gulch]

oh i loved that video that was a good one

[rough basalt]

And i was able to come up with one mid-video and i realized, thats not a bad idea

[crimson gulch]

Matt C has a lot of great content

maps inspire me all the time for encounters

[rough basalt]

What I got was a green hag coven is turning a forest into a unnatural hellhole and its making the local wildlife unnaturally hostile

Get to use Beasts, which is fun, and Hags are fun.

[knotty vine]

I wanna use plants

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah plants too

I'm complaining cause I wanna yap, I dont wanna do prep and yapping complaining about prep is whats resulted

I did get a nice bit of HB done today tho which is nice

I got my first boss for my horror game made, and several more blood magic spells to fit some evil druids, and evil spellcasters in general

[jovial talon]

I mistook that for you meaning that you got your first boss, as in employer or the such, to join you for a second.

[rough basalt]

I'm vulnerable to job applications. I take double damage from them.

[knotty vine]

A job!

[jovial talon]

If you could combine multiple spells into one, what monstrosities would you make? The main restriction is that spell slot cost is additive. Two combined level 1s require a level 2, a lv1+2+3 would require a level 6 slot.

[knotty vine]

Can it be the same spell twice?

[jovial talon]

No you cannot make Magic Missile Missile Missile Missile Missile Missile Missile Missile Missile

[glad arch]

Honestly i imagine 2 cantrips might actually win here

Since theyre level 0, combined would still be a cantrip. Infintie casting and effectivly casting 2 cantrips as an action

Maybe not the singular most powerfull but general use

[hot reef]

Wish+Eldritch Blast for 4 wishes

[jovial talon]

For this thought experiment we shall consider cantrips a Lv1 spell.

[jovial talon]

The chances of you being able to cast wish ever again would probably be never but hey, a guaranteed 4 wishes is pretty good.

[jovial talon]

I did the math on this, assuming that each 3rd missile contained the next instance of magic missile, You end with 18 missiles.

18d4+18 nigh guaranteed damage for a Lv9 slot.

[errant crag]

My DM seems to want to change a whole lot of stuff about his game after the first sessions and I'm not really sure how to feel about it

Kinda has me concerned

[crimson gulch]

when a dm appears to lack confidence in what they have started, its easy for the players to lose that same confidence in them

[glad arch]

Tbf meteorswarm is 40d6 total damage in an aoe, yes half on save but thats still ~20d6

[jovial talon]

That’s, surprisingly even. You also don’t have to worry about collateral damage and can split it however you wish.

[errant crag]

The types of changes he wants to make seem like they'll just turn it into the type of game I'm not really interested in

[knotty vine]

Its only 3 meteors

[glad arch]

4, in 2014 atleast

[errant crag]

He says he really doesn't like running 5e combat because he feels like it conflicts with how he wants things to play out narratively and he says he wants it to be more like PBTA combat, and that would just really make me lose a lot of interest in the game because I really don't like PBTA combat

[knotty vine]

But combat is a core pillar of dnd

Also what isPBTA

[jovial talon]

I think a better comparison for Magic^9 Missile would be another precision slot of the same level. What competitors does it have in that sense?

[lean wigeon]

a better game than D&D

[knotty vine]

2d6 and hoping for the best seems kinda boring

[lean wigeon]

Shill Your System

When you try to convince others that PbtA is the best format in gaming, roll + Jerk. On a 10+, they agree wholeheartedly, and and try to convert others themselves; on a 7-9, they concede a point or two, but still play their 5e slop; on a miss, they and their friends point and laugh at you, despite how objectively correct you are.

[glad arch]

Pwk ig, insta kills anything with 100hp or less

Your magic missile would be 90 damage max and can be countered with shield

[errant crag]

This is basically PBTA combat

[knotty vine]

That sounds very boring

[errant crag]

Cr 30 Kobold did an immaculate job outlining how PBTA combat works

It is fairly boring to me

[paper portal]

is it every 3rd missile or every missile

[lean wigeon]

can I be a player in your GM's campaign insteas prettt pleasw@errant crag

[dim flicker]

the biggest turnoff abt pbta enjoyers is that they never shut up abt enjoying pbta. i enjoy other ttrpgs too but good god stop beating the dead horse that is X system is better than dnd 5e. just my opinion ofcourse.

[knotty vine]

If you cast shield you are immune to magic missle entirely

[crimson gulch]

If I ever hear that the dm does not like the game I'm out immediately

[paper portal]

yeah ik i used that in my last session actually

[dim flicker]

i enjoy various systems bc variety is the spice of life

which includes dnd 5e

[knotty vine]

I like CPR as well

[errant crag]

Like he asked us if we'd prefer a Tragic Epic style campaign or a Heroic Epic style of campaign and there was bit of a leaning towards Heroic Epic from the players, because the whole "everything is hopeless and your efforts were all for nothing" just seems like it would be annoying and not fun for a D&D campaign; and the DM definitely seems like he was leaning towards Tragic Epic

I think he might be better off running a system other than 5e or maybe just writing a book

[crimson gulch]

I have tried other systems and dnd done well is the best there is, most people just don't run it raw and right

[knotty vine]

its better to say D&D can be the best there is

[jovial talon]

Trimming down to be more representative of the system I’m basing this off (Noita) you would have the first 8 only be two missiles and than the final burst would be the full 3. So it’s actually 19 missiles. Whoops.

The other idea is that it’s lossless with Multi-projectiles and therefore would be 27 of the little darts of hate.

[crimson gulch]

They are pulling a huge bait and switch on you pink, if they could run that game honestly they would

[crimson gulch]

Nah it is, we're having the conversation here afterall

[knotty vine]

if you run D&D purely raw it could get boring fast

True!

[crimson gulch]

Hard disagree I run RAW and I'm fully booked sessions every night

[paper portal]

speak for yourself :3

finding fun quirks in the rules is always fun

[knotty vine]

But not at lot of people know/understand how to do D&D

[knotty vine]

I said could

[errant crag]

Regardless of what system is better for what: I want to play D&D.

My goal is not "Experience X genre of story in whatever TTRPG suits it best"

My goal is "Play D&D"

[jovial talon]

Raw has it’s place for sure. I do prefer spiced up versions though.

[knotty vine]

Not that it is

[crimson gulch]

And I disagree, it's a much bigger problem when they stray from raw in my experience

[knotty vine]

I run strictly raw sometimes as well

[crimson gulch]

You are not alone in that goal that is for sure

[errant crag]

I feel like I'm an unhinged madman wanting a style of game that is so outlandish that they may as well not exist

Said style of game being "RAW D&D with combat and dungeon crawls"

[knotty vine]

One thing I feel strange about is that we have yet to get a better fighter subclass then those that were in 2014

We got improved fighter subclasses but thats about it

[crimson gulch]

Nope your feelings are super valid there pink, I'm fully booked running those kinds of games

[knotty vine]

Stink aura

[paper portal]

optimizers do that all the time

[lean wigeon]

do you think contemporary D&D culture had deviated from D&D's target audience, and now said culture is trying to appropriate D&D for stuff it wasn't originally made to emulate

[paper portal]

makes sense considering both optimization and dungeon crawls tend to be combat focused

[lean wigeon]

like, IME, most people who play D&D don't even do like
proper dungeon crawls anymore

[paper portal]

not just that but d&d is also trying to suit the new target audience without making any drastic changes which puts it in this weird spot where it's still designed as a dungeon crawler but they won't tell you that

[lean wigeon]

it has now become "generic high fantasy the TTRPG" not that it's actually good at generic high fantasy

Shadowdark fixes this

[paper portal]

eh i like the jank of d&d

[knotty vine]

Same here

[errant crag]

The problem to me is that the people who want to do roleplay only mechanics light no combat games are bullishly insisting on playing 5e and trying to force 5e to fit that

When 5e isn't really built towards that

[lean wigeon]

critical role and its consequences

[jolly canyon]

I am that brand new gen of players since I started this year and speaking purely for myself here. What I hope to get out of dnd if I ever get to be a player for a campaign I want a 50/50 split of role-playing and combat. I want to immerse myself into my character and regardless if they die on the battlefield or die to a disintegration trap I wanna be sad to see them die or be happy if they make it to the end. Not sure what decade of dnd that mindset comes from if it's new gen early 2000s or any time else. My perception 100% was influenced by Actual Plays. Good thing or bad thing that is the truth and something I will deal with.

[crimson gulch]

That's why I do them every nights to try and fix the imbalance

[twilit sail]

Dyou guys think my next dm will let me run chronurgy

[lean wigeon]

idk
let's roll a d20

[errant crag]

I love running dungeons they're my favorite part of the game

[twilit sail]

Roll to charm the dm

[errant crag]

Watching my players delve into a dungeon paranoid about what's behind every corner or door

While I know everything about it

[crimson gulch]

Depends if they greenlight the critical role books or not

[lean wigeon]

oops, it's all cottage-core social-heavy combat-light game listings

[errant crag]

For real though

There are so many better systems for games like that

I wanna play a TTRPG

[lean wigeon]

no no no
5e is the best system for everything

[paper portal]

or if they just ban chron for being broken

[errant crag]

I love 5e and even I believe that's not the case

If the entire session could have been a phone call I'm mad

[crimson gulch]

That's a weak dm that would allow critical role content but not chrono wizards.

I hav killed every chrono wizard that has ever played in my campaigns they aren't tough

[paper portal]

Personally I don't think we should ban anything but if you do want to the #1 pick is absolutely chronurgy wizard lol

[errant crag]

Like I played in a session for a game I've been in for a while where the entire session was in-party roleplay and elegant descriptions of the wilderness as we traveled to town, not a die was rolled the whole session. Functionally all that happened was we left an elevator, we walked across a field, we had conversations in character, got back to town and the session ended.

And I was mad, and nobody else at the table understood why I was mad.

Like this whole session could have happened over text in the group chat

This session was just roleplay there was no game to accompany it

[fossil hollow]

can confirm, im one of them

[errant crag]

We didn't even roleplay with any NPCs or anything, all the DM did the whole session was describe the environment

[lean wigeon]

oh wow

[errant crag]

All that was productive that session (just the party roleplay) could have happened without the DM even being present

[dim flicker]

thats severely boring

[jolly canyon]

OK now I don't want that type of rp lol 😆

[crimson gulch]

You keep finding awful dungeonmasters pink

[errant crag]

Oh I told them I was mad right when the session ended

I told them that's not okay, this session felt like a waste of my time

Sure the inter party roleplay was good

But it's all that happened

[crimson gulch]

One in every maby 45 sessions has no combat in my games

[jolly canyon]

I want to roll dice, talk to npc to find clues to the current quest, get to know my party and npcs strength to formulate battle strategies in game. Not just talk for 4 hours

[errant crag]

It's not even about combat

There could have been no combat and it still would have been fine

We didn't encounter any NPCs, no obstacles to our traversal of the wilderness

[crimson gulch]

And the very few no combat sessions are allways dealing with important things

[jolly canyon]

Pink does have the most interesting stories here on avg huh

[errant crag]

I think the lack of interesting is the problem this time around

That DM has improved a lot since then and that was the only session like that to this day

[jolly canyon]

Well that's good they have improved

[errant crag]

But the game only has 3 players, so if I ended up leaving the game stops

So they kinda had to improve

[strong wave]

Pink runs the show

[errant crag]

I don't want to run the show if I'm not the DM

I'm just one to speak up when I'm not happy about something

Which is a rarity in the current D&D climate

[crimson gulch]

And I really shouldn't be

[errant crag]

You have tons of antisocial people trying to join and play this inherently social game, and it makes it hard for them to have good experiences

[knotty vine]

Im gonna turn you into goop

Turn your bones into slime

[fossil hollow]

how is that adding anything meaningful to the convo

[paper portal]

for fun

[errant crag]

I had to stop watching YouTube videos of TTRPG horror stories

[jolly canyon]

Gotta roll a save for that I'm sure

[rustic zephyr]

Be saying anything these days bro

[errant crag]

Both because I'm confident most are AI generated and the YouTubers can't pick up on that; and because they seem like they fear monger and are situations I would never find myself in because I'd speak up when any of this stuff happens

[paper portal]

I'm kinda curious why some of yall have such issues with optimization if you want the game to be combat focused tbh

[errant crag]

Those things aren't mutually exclusive

You can enjoy combat heavy dungeon crawls and also not want to hardcore optimize

[paper portal]

ik it just seems weird to want one but be so heavily against the other

[errant crag]

I'm not against optimization
I'm against the notion that people need to optimize and that taking suboptimal options makes them a detriment to the party

[crimson gulch]

I don't, long adventuring days flatten optimizers

[errant crag]

It is so genuinely hard to make an actively bad D&D character unless you just genuinely don't know the system very well and don't have help

[paper portal]

I fear when we say optimizers we mean two entirely different groups of people

[errant crag]

But optimizers act like anything short of the absolute meta is useless to the party

That's what I'm against

[rustic zephyr]

optimizing can be tedious at times tbf, it depends on a lot of things, and you don't need to be super optimized to get through encounters so long as you aren't purposefully throwing

[idle oar]

From my experience, it's primarily because a subset of optimizers turn into gatekeepers and tell folks they're playing D&D wrong because they didn't build their character a certain way.

[errant crag]

I'm not against optimizers
I'm against my fellow cleric player berating me because I didn't take Spirit Guardians

[rustic zephyr]

Fr lmao

[crimson gulch]

Ok what do you mean by optimizer then?

[errant crag]

Or being mad that my wizard didn't take Fireball

Or seething with rage that I'm playing a multiclass other than hexadin

[torpid hound]

Did they take Lightning Bolt?

[errant crag]

Yes

[rustic zephyr]

you can take the non-optimal options and still have fun/get through combat encounters comfortably

[crimson gulch]

And that kind of unsportsmanlike conduct is not welcome in my games, makes things run smoothly

[paper portal]

Mostly the #optimization regulars and that whole group of people, long encounter days are the norm there

[errant crag]

I left a game because the other cleric would not shut the hell up about the fact that I didn't take Spirit Guardians, and had his cleric berate mine in character over it

[crimson gulch]

Oh I don't go there

[rustic zephyr]

They seem fun at parties

[errant crag]

That's the type of optimization I'm against

[paper portal]

Oh yeah absolutely it just makes a lot of sense to me that if you want the game to be combat focused you should at least have knowledge of the best options even if you choose not to use it

[paper portal]

Yeah that's so justified lol

[torpid hound]

I know a certain Bard who fatalitied a Naga with Lightning Bolt

[errant crag]

That's gatekeeping

[idle oar]

Like I'm here to play a game and have fun with folks, not get harangued by someone that I'm wrong because I didn't squeeze the best DPR from a build or what not.

[errant crag]

Saying that they should do anything just because it's a combat focused game

That's gatekeeping

[rustic zephyr]

enjoying combat and wanting focus on combat doesn't mean you have to have knowledge

nor does it mean you have to be fully optimized

[paper portal]

I know, but if you enjoy combat why not build on your knowledge of combat

[errant crag]

Why are you assuming that somebody playing something suboptimal means they don't know what is optimal

[paper portal]

I'm not saying anyone has to do anything just that it seems pretty related

[crimson gulch]

Every 5e charicter is a combat charicter

[paper portal]

I'm not? I never said that lol

[rustic zephyr]

it's a good thing to do and most people do anyway but it's not necessary to say that if you enjoy combat, you have to have knowledge on it and whatnot

[errant crag]

Just because I'm choosing to play a Hobgoblin Transmutation wizard doesn't mean that I don't know how to build a wizard

This is the wizard I wanted to play

I don't care that he's not optimal it's what I wanted to play

[crimson gulch]

I made a sorcerer once and the goal of the build was go fast. So fun

[errant crag]

I made a sorcerer once with the goal of having as much maximum HP as I could stack up on sorcerer

[paper portal]

Yeah that was bad phrasing on my part I just meant that optimization is about understanding the system and combat mechanics more which is something a lot of people would want to do if they want combat focus

[paper portal]

That's still optimization

[rustic zephyr]

circling back to what you said before, it shouldn't matter so much anyway so long as you aren't throwing on purpose

[errant crag]

Yeah but people would still tell me it's not an optimal build and I shouldn't do it

[paper portal]

That's their problem tbh most optimizers don't think like that

[errant crag]

Hasn't been my experience

[rustic zephyr]

They aren't optimizing something that makes the encounters faster though, which would be something like damage

[paper portal]

We go for max dpr all the time even though that's not good

[twilit sail]

Optimizing gives me dopamine

[twilit sail]

Find better groups

[paper portal]

Well again when I say "optimizers" I do mean the community I interact with that has the best optimization knowledge, random redditors trying to make the best possible build would be different ofc

[rustic zephyr]

most people when optimizing focus on making the encounters faster and easier, maxing out HP when you could max out dmg probably isn't considered optimization by most people

[idle oar]

Also some optimizers are so focussed on the game mechanic theory that just doesn't align with my real world D&D gameplay experience (e.g. their ideas are predicated on assumptions of how the game is/should be played that don't actually match my table experience).

[frail wasp]

no true optimizer wouldn't max out damage /s

[crimson gulch]

Agreed, and most optimizer stories I hear just sound like the dm is only throwing soft balls

[paper portal]

Optimization does tend to make some assumptions about tables yeah, it's mostly to standardize things so that we can better define which options are the best

[twilit sail]

If they want to ruin th social experiene in social game thats their problem

[paper portal]

Hey I'm working on a big damage build rn (it's mostly about stopping movement still but shhhh

[errant crag]

I've been trying to optimize different Barbarian Multiclasses with my barbarian multiclass challenge. I made a:
Barbarian Rogue
Barbarian Wizard
Barbarian Cleric
Barbarian Paladin
Barbarian Monk
Barbarian Bard

And most "optimizers" would tell me to flat out just never multiclass, they would completely ignore my goal in making these characters and just tell me to do something else.

[paper portal]

what optimizers are you talking to lmao multiclassing is awesome

[rustic zephyr]

yes, there's nothing wrong with it, it's a good thing to do, it's fun to build something that absolutely destroys all encounters, but it gets annoying when people tell you that you're playing wrong

[errant crag]

Which ones are YOU talking to?

[rustic zephyr]

the people who care more about optimization and less about fun/variety

[paper portal]

the ones in #optimization with actual good game knowledge that arent reddit murder hobos

[rough basalt]

Almost had a heart attack

[empty thicket]

those are the left to do pink?

[paper portal]

multiclassing is optimal is the thing

[rough basalt]

I couldnt find my 5.5e MM

[jolly canyon]

Glad you found it !!

[rough basalt]

But it was behind the Spelljammer box set page ad thing that came with spelljammer on my fridge

[paper portal]

tbh i think a lot of the issues people have with optimization are misconceptions caused by people with less understanding about how it actually should be done (or notably, not done)

[errant crag]

I constantly need to put disclaimers on my messages when I'm making a multiclass character pleading people to not just tell me not to multiclass because people can't get over the concept of me making a character for fun, I can't even talk about these characters in that channel

[rustic zephyr]

yeah that sounds annoying as shit to have to do

[errant crag]

Yeah it is

It's why I don't talk about my characters here anymore to begin with

[rustic zephyr]

constantly having to remind people who likely are grown adults that it's okay to have fun

[twilit sail]

discord users generally dont act like grown adults

[errant crag]

So yeah I don't buy this idea that all optimizers are fun loving advocates for taking what you wanna take, those people are just gonna bombard me with "don't multiclass" because they'll ignore my goal in doing so

[paper portal]

Well yeah that's definitely true lol

[rustic zephyr]

you're right, we should lower our expectations

[twilit sail]

accepting that youll have to interact with immature ppl is smthn you need to do when you go on internet forums

[errant crag]

Yeah so I've just stopped going

I don't talk about characters I wanna make here anymore

I use other servers for that now

[twilit sail]

i mean obviously we arent all fun loving advocates

every group has its bad apples

i think you should just treat ppl like ppl instead of going into a conversation w them with a preconceived notion abt them being jerks

[errant crag]

Crazy takeaway

[paper portal]

Optimization does have a shocking amount of those I'll give them that but that's why I generally stick to the same community without venturing out into reddit or youtube

[twilit sail]

reddit is 90% jerks

[paper portal]

Most of what they say is dead wrong anyways

[empty thicket]

wrong, 40% bots, 50% jerks and 10% CEOS doing silly stuff

[twilit sail]

tru

[empty thicket]

Sadly true

[paper portal]

totem barb op!!!!

[twilit sail]

the way reddit works actively encourages you be pretentious

[errant crag]

Reddit is an echo chamber

[rustic zephyr]

Fr you'll ask a normal question and 90% of the replies are condescending idiots being passive aggressive

[empty thicket]

Reddit like twitter and other many are pandora boxes, nerver forget

[paper portal]

echo knight mentioned!!! /silly

[empty thicket]

If they fell, the evils will spread to somewhere

[errant crag]

I'm permabanned from reddit

Best decision I ever made

So much peace of mind once I stopped visiting reddit

[empty thicket]

In any way, lets not forget. Always carry a dagger or something like that even if you are a caster

[paper portal]

Anyways random side topic I think the grid system could have been a lot more clearly defined because like how does repelling blast interact with it at all

[empty thicket]

you never know when something sharp can be handy

[paper portal]

If you hit someone 25 feet away and 5 feet to the left of you what direction to they go in

[jolly canyon]

I Google questions and sometimes click on reddit posts related to my question but I've never just been on reddit. I only hear stories of it

[errant crag]

They go away from you

They're only one row off they just go away from you

[empty thicket]

speaking of repelling blast, i would like to add a system in my campaigns. Push things will have a STR save.
Repelling blast will have one and even the players will be able to counter the push actions towards them

[paper portal]

Yeah mathematically it's not enough of an offset to knock them to the side which is really weird and kinda unintuitive

[empty thicket]

Mostly because STR is a forgotten stat in a lot of stuff, like skills and saves

[knotty vine]

I feel like im never appreciated for the amount of time and effect I try to put into running games

[paper portal]

Feels weird to nerf push options like that tbh

[errant crag]

Strength not being useful is a DM issue

[paper portal]

Strength is definitely the worst stat

[twilit sail]

thats pretty cool

[empty thicket]

Yes, but it help to give a sensation of something powerfull

[twilit sail]

i like that

[knotty vine]

Strength only has 1 ability

[paper portal]

To be fair that's not really the reason it's bad but it definitely doesn't help

[empty thicket]

You can be a barbarian and that would help to the idea of UNstoppable

[torpid hound]

Reckless Attack working on ranged attacks is funny when you think about it
"AAAAAAAA" Javelin lands perfectly

[errant crag]

Strength is only bad if the players don't know the rules and the DM is ignoring a lot of the rules

[karmic heath]

Hand cross, light crossbow and heavy cross bow?
Can some one explain these to me?
Both the light and heavy are two handed?
The hand crossbow is…one handed? But has a feat for attacking again with another light weapon that isn’t the hand crossbow?
So what? A dagger?
Also
Heavy is d10, light is d8 and hand is d6….correct?

[errant crag]

As is the case with many things in 5e

[knotty vine]

If anything it helps it more then it hurts it

[twilit sail]

i doodle pictures of the pcs in the game and post them in the group chat

and bring snacks sometimes

i think that makes me a good player even if i have adhd and cant pay attention sometimes

[errant crag]

Many people will do anything except actually run the system that they're running

[twilit sail]

my favorite kind of character to write (not like play in dnd, just write) is the one that is ALL HANDS

[paper portal]

Nah even with encumbrance and stuff like that strength is lacking tbh

[twilit sail]

JAB JAB STRAIGHT UPPERCUT

[paper portal]

me irl

[twilit sail]

BLOCK
DUCK
WEAVEEEE

[paper portal]

oh you mean like punching not theyre literally made out of hands

[twilit sail]

yeah sorry mate

[errant crag]

Do you have the jumping rules memorized

[empty thicket]

Compare it to Dext.
Dext is a never dump stat

[errant crag]

Do you ever use the jumping rules

[paper portal]

No but I should

[empty thicket]

but str is a dump stat for many classes and reasons

[errant crag]

My players almost always regret dumping strength

[paper portal]

That's because of major and minor saves tbf but strength is also not as good as int and cha

[twilit sail]

you either dump str or int

i feel like int is a lot more important rp wise

[errant crag]

Stats have no bearing on RPn

That is entirely a self inflicted thing

[twilit sail]

its important to me 🥺

[errant crag]

It's like if I hated Legos because I kept dumping them on the floor and stomping on them

Maybe I should stop doing that

[frail wasp]

step 1: dump int
step 2: mind flayers
step 3: wait oops

[empty thicket]

Yep, still i will do that becausae ngl, str felt forgotten sometimes

[twilit sail]

i dont have a hatred for strength

[jolly canyon]

OK, who flayed my mind?? Speak up

[twilit sail]

or int

[errant crag]

So many issues people have with 5e literally boil down to "The DM is running the game in a way that causes that" or "You are not engaging with the systems that enable/prevent that"

[twilit sail]

i just thought it made sense?

[frail wasp]

roll this save to not TPK... your save modifier? -1
good luck

[paper portal]

See you should never dump int because it allows you to multiclass into wizard which is a broken strat

[twilit sail]

like you wouldnt rp as like a strongman with 8 str right

[errant crag]

It's like when I see people say that "Martials are just walk forward and attack"
Yeah because that's all you're thinking to do with them

[frail wasp]

you technically can be an uncoordinated 8 strength muscle burger if you want

[twilit sail]

that would be funny

[paper portal]

Tbf most of the complexity martials can have is in the character builder more than in combats

[minor cargo]

I think what people might be saying is less of that extreme and more of “you know, even 10 str is pretty strong”.

Or yeah, what Acid_Trees is saying too.

[twilit sail]

what is your strength stat dm steve

[errant crag]

Normalize dumping dex
Normalize dumping Wisdom

Both of these are completely acceptable and viable, people are just scared to

[fossil hollow]

I feel like we need a weight/lift update Steve :D

[paper portal]

They're scared to because you see tons of saves based on them lol

[twilit sail]

i could probably dump wisdom, most of my chars arent very wise

[last mountain]

Yo, who wants to be friends

[paper portal]

Have fun failing every save against fear and charmed lol

[errant crag]

And there's ways to mitigate those for characters who want to dump those stats

[twilit sail]

no i hate you
you slaughtered my village and razed my familys crops

[paper portal]

Me!

[minor cargo]

Last year, I got to 13 strength. It’s was REALLY hard this year to keep it up and get to 14.

[twilit sail]

nice! 👍

[last mountain]

I did o:

[last mountain]

Yay!

[paper portal]

How are you measuring this I'm curious

[frail wasp]

isn't carrying capacity str * 15? so 13 * 15 = 195 lift

[minor cargo]

Max lift is strength times 30. (Sorry can’t link direct link but it’s in the basic rules.)

I maxed my deadlifts last year at 405#, so that’s 13.5 but D&D doesn’t do fraction ability scores.

[paper portal]

Ahh makes sense

[frail wasp]

ah times 30, my bad --- 13 * 30 = 390

[last mountain]

I need to learn DnD I need a teacher

[fossil hollow]

#dnd-newcomers

[paper portal]

Ngl got me kinda curious how much str I would have lol

[minor cargo]

15 is max carrying capacity yeah. 30 is max lift (where you just move at 5 feet per round - so I approximate it with a deadlift).

[empty thicket]

they can hold places really well with opportunity attacks, maintain lines
Rogues can literally half hp a boss if they got good rolls
Barbarian and monk can reach such levels of survival that is annoying
Fighter can literally hold his ground in many ways

[twilit sail]

i could help ig
so i can attack you when you are vulnerable and seek my vengeance

[paper portal]

I know I'd have a stupid amount of con

[errant crag]

Next character I make I'll dump both Dexterity and Wisdom and see how miserable it is

[frail wasp]

you dont want to know how they measure con IRL tho

[last mountain]

What did I do :c

[twilit sail]

i feel like dumping dex is fine if youre a tank w heavy armor

[errant crag]

Maybe if I'm lucky he'll die, I love when my characters die

[paper portal]

Idk either but I have at least 20

[errant crag]

I'll do it on a Barbarian

[twilit sail]

okay youre going to perish

[errant crag]

No I'm not

[empty thicket]

I like how resilient to death are my characters sometimes

[twilit sail]

irl

[paper portal]

barb without medium armor is kinda sad to me ngl

[twilit sail]

i'm going to attack you
roll me initiative

[empty thicket]

2 death saves with nat20 and he stand

[errant crag]

I'll do you one better I'll make a Barbarian who dumps Dex and Wis and doesn't wear any armor

And it'll be fine

[twilit sail]

barbarian w heavy armor would be pretty funny

[paper portal]

I mean yeah probably

[paper portal]

It's not as bad as you think tbh

[twilit sail]

you could take a level in fighter ig to get proficiency

[errant crag]

Yeah you just can't benefit from your core class feature

[paper portal]

Only the base ability of rage gets supressed so you can still use subclass features

Bad but not unusable

[empty thicket]

Wish cleric barbarian work perfectly because i would love to make a character who is doing a penance for the sins of everybody

[fossil hollow]

im fairly sure thats only in 2014. 2024 Heavy Armor turns off rage

[paper portal]

Oh it does? That's kinda sad

[errant crag]

You cannot enter rage while wearing heavy Armor

[fossil hollow]

also that too in 2014

[errant crag]

"You can imbue yourself with a primal power called Rage, a force that grants you extraordinary might and resilience. You can enter it as a Bonus Action if you aren't wearing Heavy armor"

[twilit sail]

uhh lessee my current most used oc is both easily scared and super clingy

so that would fit honestly

[paper portal]

Yeah they changed that in 5.5, in 5e you can still rage you just don't get the normal benefits

[errant crag]

So what am I at then, barbarian dumping dex and wisdom and not wearing armor?

Anything else we wanna add to that?

I love making challenge characters

[empty thicket]

using his fists only

[errant crag]

Nah that's just boring

[twilit sail]

i dont really see dnd as a challenge yourself game? its mostly rolling dice isnt it?

[fossil hollow]

playstyle is entirely player based. Wether or not its the vibe of the game is up to the group as a whole.

[empty thicket]

lvl 1 kill the lord of cinder and only parry

[crimson gulch]

I challenge my players a Lot, many dead player charicters

[turbid vessel]

taps the "to each their own" sign

[errant crag]

Only parry literally makes that easier

[empty thicket]

i know, he is so easy to parry. Okey, so no stagger attack, only light attacks

[errant crag]

I'm basically on track to do that, my SL1 run is stuck on Artorias in the DLC, all the base game bosses are dead

Except Gwyn

[jolly canyon]

SL1 runs be beloveds

[errant crag]

Honestly not wearing armor will be the only thing that makes this difficult

A Barbarian can absolutely get by without dex if built correctly

[fossil hollow]

aka pumping up CON

[errant crag]

No armor will just pigeonhole some of my decisions is all

[errant crag]

Even then I can go with medium armor and a shield for 15 AC and then use a Longsword for Sap to cancel out advantage

[fossil hollow]

I thought no armor

[errant crag]

Go with Wildhunt Shifter to negate the advantage from reckless and then they're just attacking at disadvantage against my 15 AC

Yeah no armor is what makes it tough

No armor just limits my species decisions I think

[umbral girder]

Why not just pump Con? Get crazy Hp and an AC boost

[fossil hollow]

that is half your AC bonus after all

[errant crag]

Oh right I forgot about that

Does Unarmored Defense not add the negative dex modifier?

[fossil hollow]

It does

[errant crag]

If my con is at least +4 then that'll be fine

I'll be able to get a minimum of 15 AC even with 8 dex

[fossil hollow]

AC 13 at least if 8 DEX

[errant crag]

If I have 8 dex and 16 con I can get 12 AC, 14 with a Shield which is honestly serviceable

Especially if I go Wildhunt Shifter to negate advantage from Reckless and then go Longsword to apply disadvantage with Sap

You'd be fine

[empty thicket]

still good and more if we considerate rage give you tons of resistances

wait, any subclass give you resistance to some elements or stuff like that?

magic in general

[errant crag]

Yeah

I could just eat the straight rolls and go Aasimar Wild Hunt barbarian for resistance to everything but force and psychic damage

Or I could go Gnome for advantage on Wisdom saves, in addition to int and charisma

[thin igloo]

'ello... anyone wanna find a party together?

played on tableplop?

[severe rampart]

#looking-for-players

[thin igloo]

oops sorry

[thin igloo]

sorry

dang theres no pbp

[empty thicket]

sharpshooter, you want expert for the reload feature honestly

[chilly roost]

hii

im new here guys

[thin igloo]

'ello

[chilly roost]

helloo

[errant crag]

Repeating shot circumvents the need for crossbow expert

So I'd go sharpshooter

[empty thicket]

Repeating shoot mostly give you the no recharge feature
Sharp give tons of damage in range attacks in general
While crossbow expert only to one line of weapons and yeah, it help in those things but i would go for the general good

Its a thing i have, i try to dont close options

[errant crag]

Crossbow Expert is only doing anything if you're dual wielding which you never specified as something you were considering

[empty thicket]

Both are good yeah, perfectly fine
But Sharp literally give you 1 feature that cross give too, the 5mts range disad
Another that expert give you is covered by the repeating shoot

so only for the dual wielding crossbow?

[errant crag]

If you've got repeating shot and aren't dual wielding, XBE does almost nothing for you

If you're an elf I'd say consider Elven Accuracy

If not then Sharpshooter

[empty thicket]

And H crossbow is a good damage too
If not you can end up going for longbow and that work with sharp too or a gun//rifle

then for what reason you would go Expert?
Repeat fill the reload, sharp fill the disadvantage

the prequisite are the same nad the stat up too, both giving dext

[errant crag]

Are you looking for opinions for which is better or for your desire to take crossbow expert to be validated

[severe rampart]

is it 2014 or 2024?

[empty thicket]

24

[severe rampart]

2024 Crossbow Expert is better.

[empty thicket]

for what?

[severe rampart]

2024 it ignores the loading property.

[empty thicket]

He already have repeat shot

[errant crag]

He has repeating shot

[severe rampart]

it also allows for bonus action atk

[errant crag]

What?

[severe rampart]

Ahh

[severe rampart]

Two Weapon Fighting

[empty thicket]

the dual thing? already said, the only thing for what he would take expert

[errant crag]

You can do that without crossbow expert

[severe rampart]

Well then take Sharpshooter

[errant crag]

Crossbow Expert just lets you add the ability mod to the damage without needing a fighting style

[severe rampart]

though iirc sharpshooter doesn't have the -5 to hit +10 damage anymore

just like GWM

[errant crag]

It doesn't but is still a good feat to take if you're using ranged weapons a lot

[paper portal]

yeah its so sad

[empty thicket]

its okey, sharp is now a more general for range users weapons

but still would liked that risk reward be in some other ways

Are you dual wielding?

[severe rampart]

DPR? Crossbow Expert if you don't have the fighting style.

[errant crag]

Hmm well let's see
One is doing: literally nothing for you
The other is: making you a lot more likely to hit

If you are not dual wielding crossbows then CBE is doing nothing for you

[severe rampart]

Artificer? what subclass?

[empty thicket]

Go for sharp.

[errant crag]

You can juggle crossbows but CBE makes it a lot more convenient

[empty thicket]

2 light crossbows yeah, you can,
Not recommended but you can

[severe rampart]

I might be wrong, but artificers don't get extra attack, so it wouldn't be worth it

[errant crag]

Depends on the subclass

[severe rampart]

Yeah what subclass are you?

[errant crag]

Armorer and Battle Smith both get extra attack

[severe rampart]

wait, so you're below level 3?

How are you getting this feat?

Ah

[errant crag]

Are you going to dual wield hand crossbows

That is the sole determining factor here

Make that decision and you've decided which feat is better

[junior jasper]

I got the Telekinetic feat in the Wild Beyond the Witchlight campaign I’m playing in. Just have to get to level 8 and then I get a 20 in charisma!

[errant crag]

Go to #optimization if all you care about is damage

[severe rampart]

Nice

[empty thicket]

okey, i would say that if you are looking forward, Warcaster or Spell sniper would be good options for the artificer.
If not and you want something more martial go sharp.

[errant crag]

There are so many aspects to this game besides damage that you should be considering when building your character

Like so so many

[severe rampart]

Different strokes for different folks

[empty thicket]

Yep, more consdierating you are going a supportish class like artificer. Utility and buffs for your team.
Debuff and Crow control for the enemy

[severe rampart]

I'm not judging, but I'm heavily agreeing with pink

[errant crag]

It's not different strokes for different folks, if you're trying to make an effective character then you need to think of more than just damage

[junior jasper]

Is it bad that I think human fighters are the most boring possible characters you can play? Yes, the exception is Psi Warrior or Arcane Trickster subclasses.

[severe rampart]

Yeah

It is bad

[errant crag]

It doesn't matter if you do more damage if you're not landing your hits, if you're dying before you can do anything, if you're useless outside of combat, etc

[junior jasper]

I know.

[errant crag]

Yeah that's a really narrow scope to look at things through

[empty thicket]

no, its totally okey because is your opinion.
Human fighter is basic thing but work

[severe rampart]

Then why ask? it's not about the class or species, it's about the player acting as said character.

[severe rampart]

They didn't say basic, they said boring

[errant crag]

I've played alongside some really fun and interesting human fighters

[severe rampart]

Basic doesn't mean bad

[junior jasper]

I was asking for other people’s opinions.

[empty thicket]

said about the boring before.

[fossil hollow]

A human fighter is only as basic as you, the player and the one making the character, makes them boring

[severe rampart]

Then that's my opinion, if you have a narrow view of classes and species then it's not gonna get you far

[empty thicket]

Yep and fighter have like tons of options for flavor yourself

[fossil hollow]

Using an "exotic" species and class does not automatically make your character unique or interesting

[severe rampart]

Unless your character is a bard /heavily joking

[empty thicket]

A heavy armor knight who use a halberd
A medium armor user who use dual wield
A light armor range user who shoot far and strong

You can go ANYTHING inside the martial options being a fighter

[halcyon bison]

also humans can get an extra feat which makes them the most mechanically varied species...

[severe rampart]

Extra origin feat but yeah

[deep niche]

There's a lot of ways you can make your characters interesting honestly! (I'm a chara designer)😹

[empty thicket]

Can get savage attacker that would be one of the best
Lucky, alert, etc. etc.

[errant crag]

I've played alongside so many characters that are an exotic race and an odd subclass and are just so boring because they're being roleplayed like planks of wood

[junior jasper]

It also might be that human fighters are the safest class and humans are easier, and that I’m mildly jealous because I didn’t get the experience to play an easy character my first time because my party already had a bunch of martial classes and one wizard already, so I had to pick a hard class. I might just be projecting. I don’t even know.

[empty thicket]

Taht is another beauty of fighter, lot of things work on him

[deep niche]

Each class are equally as interesting depending on how you design them

[errant crag]

"Boring" comes from how they're being played

[empty thicket]

Monk....

[junior jasper]

Oh, I never said that.

[errant crag]

You said human fighters are inherently boring

[fossil hollow]

Thats me expanding on my initial point

[errant crag]

So you kinda did

[severe rampart]

You didn't have to pick a hard class. But I'm not blaming you for feeling that way. We play and we learn and we make mistakes.

[junior jasper]

No, I mean that exotic species and subclasses of other classes can be just as boring.

[empty thicket]

Just a reminder, the other races have gods and origins in many ways. Humans it seems not so much

[severe rampart]

Uhh may I ask how that's relevant?

[empty thicket]

oh and dwarf god avatar is always the tallest in the room

[strong wave]

I suck at acting

[fossil hollow]

RP is not inherently acting

[severe rampart]

then be yourself

[empty thicket]

about how some races tend to be "boring", just a funny fact

[errant crag]

You don't have to act

[junior jasper]

Thanks. My DM was strict and made me use a harder class because I “couldn’t use a class the party already had.” I just made the bad decision to use sorcerer.

[severe rampart]

Then that's a bad DM.

[errant crag]

DMs not allowing repeat classes is a huge red flag to me

[severe rampart]

Hm, may I ask how Sorcerers felt complicated or difficult?

[twilit sail]

I just love feet

I mean feat

[severe rampart]

What the hell

[fossil hollow]

No repeating classes has always been a player choice in my games. I have two players who are averse to having the same class as other people

[errant crag]

Players not wanting to double up is fine but a DM disallowing it is strange to me

Like why

[strong wave]

Ayo

[cursive fjord]

Man im really debating on selling my physical D&D stuff because I never play irl anymore, but im still hesitant... How would you guys feels in this situation?

[tame estuary]

in a way it's less fun? mark of a bad DM over there I guess, the more classes he party has the more toys the DM get to play with

[errant crag]

I struggle to get rid of anything I physically own I'm very sentimental

[fossil hollow]

physical is always nice to have when DDB is dying/being reconstructed

[severe rampart]

You can be the same class as one person yet have your character be different

[cursive fjord]

It is but I could also use the money for Ren Fairs and other hobbies.

[tame estuary]

physical stuff is always fun, ti you still use that deck?

[fossil hollow]

So many times for determining the deck of many things for all my games

[cursive fjord]

I dont, its old 2014 things, honestly the majority of what I use isnt even from it

[fossil hollow]

also prophecies

[tame estuary]

selling "2014 content" to make room for the new stuff is a different context

[cursive fjord]

I am happy that i got Matt Mercer to sign my DMG though, that was a massive plus

[errant crag]

I think if my players all played the same class that would be freaking hilarious

[fossil hollow]

thats probably worth a lot to a critter

[tame estuary]

I'd say there would be people who could be using those stuff better, so why not

like passing on the torch

[jolly canyon]

im so glad i came to the right sources and communities. im not a skilled DM by any stretch but the fact i manage to avoid so many seemingly obvious red flags makes me more confident in DMing for the future.

[severe rampart]

5 Rogues = Ocean's 11 or whatever the heist movie was called, 5 Artificers = Power Rangers

[cursive fjord]

I also eventually (when I win the lottery) want to own all the 5e (and 5.5) physical books and digital books

[tame estuary]

keep gambling my friend

[fossil hollow]

... Tuca Donca is stuck in my mind now

[cursive fjord]

I will, as soon as i start buying lottery tickets

[severe rampart]

... that other song is in my head... (I just hit the jackpottt)

[fossil hollow]

I listened to a mashup version, so theyre both stuck in my head seamlessly

[strong wave]

Can't play if you don't win I always say

[severe rampart]

...Cry for Me?

[strong wave]

-dances-

[severe rampart]

Man I need something to do, I'm so bored

[strong wave]

Do.

Your chores

[severe rampart]

Already done

[strong wave]

Uh oh

[limber trail]

make a magic item

[cobalt escarp]

by twice?

[late kernel]

Plan a campaign.

[fossil hollow]

wah wah wah wah?

are you reffering to the hit song by 🐭 ?

[junior jasper]

I still don’t know how to use metamagic effectively. I can’t understand how to convert spell slots to sorcery points or vice versa, and I don’t understand what uses sorcery points have.

[severe rampart]

Already doing that

[strong wave]

Metal mouse?

[fossil hollow]

ironmouse

[strong wave]

Ironmouse

[late kernel]

Learn a new system and plan a campaign in it.

[strong wave]

It sounds like mighty mouse

[fossil hollow]

she is called the Tungsten Mouse from time to time.

[severe rampart]

... Pathfinder fixes this... /j

[fossil hollow]

Power Word Kill

[cobalt escarp]

learn some magic tricks

[late kernel]

I haven't played Pathfinder, probably never will. It's like the tabletop equivalent of Veganism, sure it's not bad to try it but the people who suggest it do an awful job.

[strong wave]

I played Pathfinder and all we did was fight monsters there wasn't a single path to find

Ba dum tss

[tame estuary]

ttrpgs are only as good as the people you play with

[severe rampart]

Oh I know what to do, I should just take care of myself and binge watch a campaign from start to finish

[tame estuary]

maybe you should find a hobby that gives you fullfillment and a creative outlet?

like knitting

[severe rampart]

... It's D&D! 😔

[limber trail]

based lmao

[late kernel]

Can I recommend my campaign? It's not televised, nor is it podcasted or published, you'd have to literally fly out and sit in the corner as we play. But, yknow.

/j.

[errant crag]

Based

[tame estuary]

back to what I was saying, calling pathfinder veganism is part of the problem, you can always find what you're looking for if you know how you want to play

i dunno I made a character for a pathfinder oneshot that got cancelled smh, I think the system looks pretty fun

[late kernel]

Oh, I should clarify. I have no real problem with pathfinder (or veganism) I was more so relating how aggressively people can push it and how that puts me off.

[errant crag]

It does get exhausting wanting to talk about D&D in a server where people are hellbent on talking about how every other system is better than D&D

[late kernel]

You get it.

[errant crag]

Makes me wish there was an official D&D server where I could talk about it without needing to deal with that

[crimson gulch]

Yep

[hot marlin]

Especially if it's about Pathfinder. A game that is basically D&D in genre, themes and structure. Only the mechanics differ. So insisting that people play Pathfinder? The equivalent of arguing about the respective merits of McDonald's and Burger King. Not only do those conversations lead nowhere, they just obscure the fact that there other types of food. Therefore contributing to the epidemic of childhood obesity

Wait, got lost in my metaphor

[late kernel]

I have been tempted to make stuff for my campaign but I've got the creative talent of half a tin of beans for anything that isn't actually DMing.

[crimson gulch]

you dont need to make new stuff to run a great game

[errant crag]

The only thing Pathfinder people like more than talking about how much better Pathfinder is than D&D, is continuing to play D&D despite all of that.

[tame estuary]

I'll drink to that

[empty thicket]

im rolling nat20s in the pizza im making irl, its going to be so goated that is going to give me an inspiration.

[crimson gulch]

mainly because no one like running pathfinder

[empty thicket]

Remember, you can eat something giga good in front of your enemies to ragebait them.

[late kernel]

Haha, I more so meant stuff like drawing and animating. I see the cool art people make of their player characters and despair. My homebrew skills are actually halfway decent.

[crimson gulch]

ahh, i cant do that very well either

my images i share for my campaigns are mostly me just seting out some miniatures in front of the book and that works