dnd-discussion

[fossil hollow]

Does it say it is?

[dim wasp]

right ty

[scenic zinc]

No. It's not.

Not in this version of dnd

[frail wasp]

hehe

[dim wasp]

interesting i thought spell components were consumed on casting

[fossil hollow]

not unless it says it does

[scenic zinc]

Only if the spell says so

[woeful zinc]

Not sure if I’m missing something so I could be wrong but this seems like a genuinly OP feat combo

[scenic zinc]

-# i mean, eat the pearl if you want... but that's simply narrative

[frail wasp]

I'm not sure you can misty step with war caster

As it doesn't meet war casters requirements

[woeful zinc]

It’s just cast a spell as an opportunity attack no?

[scenic zinc]

You can't. The spell has to target the creature that provoked the opportunity attack

[dim wasp]

hm

[woeful zinc]

Damn, is there anything that would be just as op I wonder

[scenic zinc]

Yeah - work with the party instead of trying to be a super cool one trick pony

That's pretty op

[woeful zinc]

How about no

[fossil hollow]

-# which is why you can cast Haste on an running all-

[harsh oxide]

You can’t reason ethos nor pathos with a min-maxer,

[lavish flame]

I mean, using your Reaction to cast most spells on approach is pretty sweet. Imagine Hold Person/Monster-ing someone who dared to walk up to you

[scenic zinc]

I specifically didn't engage in that use of war caster because I so heavily disagree with opportunity attacks being used to provide beneficial results to an ally.

[fossil hollow]

"You dare approach me?"

[lavish flame]

Levitating an enemy into the air for the crime of walking up to you

[harsh oxide]

“Fall”

[woeful zinc]

Maybe we enjoy all trying to out min-max eachother

So instead of someone just going “play like a team” they could, idk, answer a question

[harsh oxide]

Maybe the real min-maxer were the friends along the way

[harsh oxide]

It’s just the issue of if one person isn’t min-maxing then it hurts the experience, it’s a free world(mostly) do want you want, but make sure everyone is on the same page

[umbral girder]

Dio

[scenic zinc]

I'm sorry for suggesting you play a team oriented game as a team.

-# I'm actually not sorry at all.

[lavish flame]

Misty Step wouldn't work, but something like Vortex Warp might. Instead of teleporting yourself away, you could teleport the enemy away from u.

Of course, Vortex Warp assumes your game features content from Strixhaven, which is not a gurantee.

[woeful zinc]

Have you ever considered that, people, play the game different to you?

And that people enjoy playing a ROLEPLAYING GAME, as different ROLES?

Course not everyone plays how you do

[woeful zinc]

Thank you

[umbral girder]

The roles in a team perhaps?

[scenic zinc]

I'm aware of that. I often tell those people to play the games that are intended to be played the way they're trying to play dnd.

[harsh oxide]

Again it’s fine if everyone is doing it, if not then it’s generally frowned upon, think like this if everyone is Superman then everyone can fight Luther, but if only one is they still have to fight Luther but Superman is the only one that can do anything, or they fight something normal and Superman steam rolls it

[scenic zinc]

The role in __role__playing refers to you playing the character.

[past blaze]

if you're trying to play a role of "someone who doesn't want or need to work in team" in a roleplaying game basically built around having a team of roles then that's just

why

[woeful zinc]

Look if your not gonna answer the question then you can just pack it in, we enjoy playing the game a different way than you, who cares

[harsh oxide]

Do what you want but it’s bad manners if not everyone is doing it, otherwise go wild

[past blaze]

different doesn't innately equate to "Can't Be Wrong"

[woeful zinc]

And they are, I don’t need the hasbro meat riders who can’t possibly contemplate the idea of people playing a game in a way that they all enjoy

[scenic zinc]

I'm responding in an entirely reasonable way - is there a need for you to talk this way?

[woeful zinc]

It’s a video game, if everyone at the table is having fun, it isn’t wrong

[past blaze]

eating soup with fingers is different, that doesn't mean it's innately correct for being different

[scenic zinc]

TTRPGs aren't video games.

[past blaze]

it also isn't a videogame

it's a TTRPG

[woeful zinc]

The reasonable way is refusing to answer the question and judging us for playing a game how we want

[scenic zinc]

Your question is a bad question.

[woeful zinc]

You know what I meant but be an “erm actually” kid lol

[woeful zinc]

Good for you, don’t care

[past blaze]

role division typically isn't really going to mesh well when someone tries to make their role "all the roles"

[scenic zinc]

No. I read what you said. If you meant something different, you should have said that thing.

[woeful zinc]

If someone made a soup in their own house using ingredients they bought, and sat at home with their soup, they can eat it however they please it isn’t my business

[woeful zinc]

Ok then, let me word it cause you seem very illiterate so far

I, would like, to know, spells, that work, with, war caster, and polearm master, for fun, op synergy

[harsh oxide]

All I’m saying is make sure everyone is doing it, plus the DM is ok with it, look you getting a lot of flak, not all of it is warranted, but look at how you reacting, obviously your letting it get to you, step back for a moment and then if you still want to respond then go ahead

[dim wasp]

haiii tooottttt

[scenic zinc]

#optimization

Have fun.

[woeful zinc]

What part of “we all enjoy playing the game this way” can you people not understand

[harsh oxide]

Because most often people are oblivious, especially the “bad” actors

[scenic zinc]

There are other games that do the thing you like significantly better than dnd is all I'm saying.

[dim wasp]

u kinda need to do ur own research for that lol

[woeful zinc]

Good for you

[woeful zinc]

Also good for you

[scenic zinc]

You have a very bad attitude.

[dim wasp]

I wonder if Gwyn is asleep

[woeful zinc]

You are the most annoying guy I have ever had to deal with when it comes to asking a simple question about something

[harsh oxide]

Did you even read my last message? I’m saying this much hate on you is unwarranted, just be aware.

[empty thicket]

Damn, drama going on, wild

we call some of the uppers to stop it?

[dim wasp]

nope

let it bubble i wanna watch

[woeful zinc]

Look man I just want a question answered and I’ve been sat here getting the “how dare you play the game this way” treatment

I get there are annoying people who want to min max and ruin a game, but here’s an idea

MY PARTY LIKE TO MIN MAX, WE ENJOY DOING DUMB AND OP THINGS

[scenic zinc]

That's not at all what I said.

I said there's games that do what you like better than dnd.

[woeful zinc]

You have been sat here telling me how to play a game

[empty thicket]

just saw one of the guys is named upper, wild stuff

[woeful zinc]

And here’s an idea, if I wanted to know that, I would have asked “hey, does anyone have any games that allow for more op stuff?”

But guess what? I didn’t

[scenic zinc]

Yes. You, the person who wants to min-max. I'm telling you there are other games that do the thing you like better than dnd.

[harsh oxide]

Go to optimization, sorry if you take what I was saying the wrong way, just be aware and carry on, but seriously sorry about this reaction from the chat, take a break because your letting this get to you though

[dim wasp]

lol

[woeful zinc]

Did I ask though

[scenic zinc]

DnD isn't made to do the thing you like.

[woeful zinc]

Well it’s worked so far, until I had a fat mess in my ear yapping about how the game doesn’t work that way

[empty thicket]

okey that is the last straw

@timid anvil sorry to bother you, drama going on

[scenic zinc]

As I asked earlier, why is it you are resorting to insults?

I'm just trying to be helpful.

You said you like min-maxing

[woeful zinc]

Ok when did I ask about other games

When

[fossil hollow]

#moderator-support is a thing

[scenic zinc]

I already provided you with the channel you should go to about optimization

[woeful zinc]

And I have messaged my question there

[scenic zinc]

I just don't get why you're being insulting to me.

[harsh oxide]

I’m praying to you man be the better man, and walk away, engaging is only making you look bad, their fanning fire but your responding

[woeful zinc]

That’s what I’m doing honestly this guy is being so obtuse it’s actually insane

[empty thicket]

didnt knew about it ngl

[civic bramble]

Does Battlemaster have an ability that allows you to hit back when you’re attacked?

[fossil hollow]

I think only one when the enemy miss

[empty thicket]

yeah, i think it was counter attack

[empty thicket]

and use your reaction, a shame because with defensive duelist it would mix perfectly

[frail wasp]

It feels good but often times the creatures you want to counterattack don't miss you :[

[scenic zinc]

The Riposte manuever

[civic bramble]

Wait, really?

[scenic zinc]

But yes, it's if you are attacked and missed

[civic bramble]

So it’s not the most useful then?

Especially for multi-classing with a barbarian?

[past blaze]

only if you never get missed

[scenic zinc]

I mean, have a high ac and you're likely to get good mileage ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[civic bramble]

Which is rare

Especially for Barbarians

[scenic zinc]

-# Don't bother multiclassing

[civic bramble]

Why?

[past blaze]

it's multiclassing

[civic bramble]

I already played a full Zealot Barb

[harsh oxide]

If your making a character, you can ask for minor homebrewing(just be aware of how easy it is to break stuff with it) from the DM for some counterattack support

[scenic zinc]

Single class PCs are often more powerful than their multiclassed brethren.

[harsh oxide]

Multiclass is great for flavor though

[scenic zinc]

You don't need to multiclass for that

Do it if you want to, sure. But there's no need to.

[harsh oxide]

It’s like a fine seasoning, you can cook something great without it but you can’t do certain things if you do go without it, go with what fits you vision best

[scenic zinc]

I hate analogies so much lol

[harsh oxide]

Sorry, I tend use them a lot, I know they can be a little open ended

[frail wasp]

they're like lemon juice, a little bit goes a long way

too much and then you gotta add sugar

[scenic zinc]

I can eat a lemon like an orange :v

[harsh oxide]

I know someone who drinks lemon juice shots, they scare me

Clarification, a shot of lemon juice, nothing in it

[woven flint]

My friend just rolled 2 20's on a disadvantaged stealth check lol

[scenic zinc]

Beautiful

[fossil hollow]

Nat40!

[scenic zinc]

You now owe @crimson gulch money

[frail wasp]

that's the real magic, trademarks

[remote wadi]

Finished up a session with a new campaign as a player

Fighter and Rogue couldn't make it, so it was me as a Ranger with a Wizard, Bard, and Cleric

It was still fun using a rapier and shield and just going to town on things. 18 AC at level 1 is no joke

Unfortunately, what did down my character and take me out of the fight at the last second was getting critted at the beginning and end of the fight

[woven flint]

Truly, unironically really hype

[remote wadi]

So I unfortunately wasn't there for the end. But I did feel like I more than pulled my own weight

[crimson gulch]

He is legit paid up

[kindred tree]

Hello

[stray atlas]

so random question

do mind flayers have to eat brains for non nutritional reasons on the astral plane?

[woven flint]

My warforged got his first non-knockout kills this session ...
4 kills in rapid succession 3 on one turn... .w.

[kindred tree]

Hi I don’t know how to navigate this server I just want to find people to play D&D

[eager marsh]

Yes because it maintains their psionics

[stray atlas]

aw

[lavish flame]

I don't think so. I imagine their cerebral diet is an anatomical thing and not a magical thing, so they would no longer need to eat brains.

[eager marsh]

they need a brain from a sentient creature at least once every month to avoid degredation

[stray atlas]

for context

I'm trying to figure out a way to have a gnome ceremorph character work

[empty thicket]

#find-a-game try here to find games,
people post threads where you can interact and they put info about it

[kindred tree]

Ok thank you

[stray atlas]

for the unaware

gnome ceremorphs are basically weird sub species of mind flayers that require a special process to create and tend to remember who they were dramatically more than normal mind flayers

[mighty wharf]

My DM asked me today if I would have anything that determines if I know a magical presence. I said I have really high arcana, but really low perception. Would that be more perception or arcana?

[frail wasp]

we usually use arcana for that

[mighty wharf]

Additionally, if I wanted to know the nature of a magical property or effect, similarly to an Identify spell, would that constitute an Arcana check?

[frail wasp]

arcana is the everything magic skill

[empty thicket]

"You know how a magical prescence is but you are unable to sense it"
Take it like you know how something spicy work but you cant feel that flavor

[mighty wharf]

Or would that be too high of a DC typically to be reliable...

[frail wasp]

it depends, honestly, if you just want to get the info in the hands of players, a low DC is fine

if you want "figure out what this magic does" to be any significant amount of gameplay, a higher DC is better

[mighty wharf]

Like I was trying to discern why a group of goblins was immune to charm, and apparently their camp had some magical ward on it.

[frail wasp]

I like to do a "roll a check, and you can ask X questions that I will answer truthfully. The higher you roll, the more X"

[empty thicket]

OH boy

[frail wasp]

that way players get to think about what to ask

[empty thicket]

those kind of "its immune to X" are the kind of thing i am more scared

because many real dangerous creature have those and the ones that can disguise too

[mighty wharf]

I cast Detect Magic thinking it was Identify

I thought it "determined the nature of the magic"

[frail wasp]

hehe detect magic is just "yup it's magic"

thanks detect magic, I already knew that >_<

[mighty wharf]

I don't have Identify though, so would asking arcana be a reasonable substitute if I have like +7/+8 to Arcana?

[empty thicket]

remind me to a short
"Hey dm nice session and the last fight was amazing but im curious, you made us roll against this charming attack, why this companion didnt had to?"
Easy, because you cant charm a (Insert really dangerous creature)
Players look confused and then realize
Erm.... maybe we will have to do a 30 minutes extension.

[frail wasp]

oh I thought you were the DM

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah ZachtheBold

[mighty wharf]

I was playing in this group

[frail wasp]

if revealing the answer might spoil some plot I'd expect the DM to say no

[mighty wharf]

I was trying to figure out what spells I could use during the encounter

That they wouldn't be immune to.

I think the intended solution was to destroy the tents/campfire but uh I don't have much destructive effects as a primarily control/support based wizard and they were spread out to the point that like a fireball wouldn't have done anything

[odd valley]

zack the bold

my beloved

[mighty wharf]

Tiny servants with torches to burn their little encampment to the ground I guess might have worked... especially because it's both cruel and funny

[limber trail]

I would imagine that’s more related to spells like detect magic etc. they may allow a decently high DC arcana but that’d be referring more to spells yeah

[mighty wharf]

Then what the hell are arcana checks for if a spell does the check for you?

[odd valley]

it’s for when you can’t use magic i guess

[fossil hollow]

if you dont have the spell

[umbral girder]

A spell that is concentration or takes a long time to cast.

[mighty wharf]

I do not have the spell. Arcana check it is.

[frail wasp]

identify I give everything away for

[empty thicket]

yep, sometimes he have such goated scenes and angles, the MTG short where he almost deceived his friend to attack another until fumbling and get targeted
That lucifer betrayal stare

[frail wasp]

even hidden qualities

[fossil hollow]

not curses

[frail wasp]

oh I give curses too

[fossil hollow]

RAW, it doesnt

[limber trail]

I’ll also say, some DMs (myself included) may not allow an Arcana check to succeed at all if it’s not easily accessible. Similarly, sometimes a spell like detect magic might give some broad information that prompts an arcana check.

They aren’t the same thing. Arcana is rolling for information about magical effects.

[frail wasp]

i don't use raw curses

[fossil hollow]

Ok then, not much useful

[rough basalt]

I use dumb curses.

[mighty wharf]

That's exactly what I wanted to know. I knew they were magical because of detect magic, I wanted to know what to DO about them being magical. Whether it's destroying them or what they ward against so I know how to work around it, anything like that.

[rough basalt]

Like curse of disadvantage

[limber trail]

That would probably be where I at least would prompt an arcana type of check but that’s also up to your DM. Identify is also very applicable here

[frail wasp]

most magic hates being hit with a stick

[rough basalt]

Where any time you have Advantage you also have disadvantage so you it's always a flat roll

[frail wasp]

except that magic that makes you immune to sticks but I assume that's not at play here

[mighty wharf]

So magic items are generally considered very very durable and very resilient to hitting with a stick

[small heath]

Chat. Is 4e worth trying? I'm curious on seeing if I can get a group of friends to give 4e a try for fun.

[rough basalt]

Do you like balance?

[frail wasp]

they have resistance to damage but that just means you hit them twice to break them

[rough basalt]

Like you want everyone on the same playing field completely

[small heath]

depends.

[frail wasp]

not my cup of tea

[viral kraken]

do you want dnd to feel more combat oriented and video gamey? 4e was very different

it's fun for some folks for sure

[rough basalt]

If you want any situation where a player might be stronger than another don't play 4e

[small heath]

Bro I see this almost every campaign I'm in for both 5e and 5.5e

xd

[umbral girder]

Yeah 4e is a lot more fair in terms of mechanics

[rough basalt]

4e is truly "all classes are 100% equal" nobody has any better or worse

Except Psionics.

[frail wasp]

however much tank, healer, DPS can be equal, at least

[eager marsh]

psionics hasn't been balanced ever in D&D history tbh

[rough basalt]

To put it this way.
In 4e all non-psionic classes have a binder of powers to use.

Psionic classes have a page of powers and a binder of augmentations for that page of powers the size of every other classes binder of powers.

[eager marsh]

name a more iconic duo than D&D and refusing to make psionics reasonable vs magic

[rough basalt]

5es answer was just not adding a psionic class

[odd valley]

i explode you with my mind

[eager marsh]

the correct choice

[rough basalt]

Psionics in 4e are in PHB 3 so they're easy to disallow.

PHB3 basically being like Tashas was for 4e.

Where power creep started really taking off.

[keen kestrel]

Hopefully 5.5e's answer is just adding the psion as a spellcaster with cool abilities

[eager marsh]

the problem is that 'psionics' as a powerset should be very simple. A far more narrow window of options against all that magic can do. It should be speialized power against the infinite versatility of magic by comparison. But the devs refuse to make it that way every time and you just get 'Magic but literally better' for some reason

[vast saddle]

Man, I kinda lost confidence after I saw Vought International's LARPers do better LARP than me as a D&D player

[rough basalt]

4e was a case of Melee Martials
Ranged Martials
Spellcasters
The three nations lived in harmony until the 4th nation, the Psionics attacked.

Like Ryu said that's historical for dnd tho

2e Psionics had their own entirely different system

And couldn't be affected by Anti-magic

3.x everything was broken, and got more broken every week when they dropped new content

Since during 3.5es timeframe WotC couldn't help themselves

They had to keep printing

3.x players were being drowned in daily mag drops

[eager marsh]

3.5e psionics were so dumb because psionics damage 'spells' could literally all freely pick any element per use so you never needed 'element coverage' and they all disobeyed the 'damage cap by power level' system anything else used. they ran by the spell point system but ignored it. anything could be scaled up beyond its intended base

[rough basalt]

They called themselves Wizards of the Printing Press and used their Noble Phantasm, Unlimited Content Works which prints Dragon Mags and Splatbooks infinitely.

Until they brought in the man who sold the DnD world

[eager marsh]

Psionics in 3.5 was particularly agregious at just being 'magic but better in every way'

[rough basalt]

The guy behind 4es corporate decisions and the 4e Forgotten Realms.

But yeah 4e is a lot of fun. Most of its issues were corporate level.

[eager marsh]

like there was literally zero reason to let psionic powers just pick any element they anted. Or even have access to most elements at all

[rough basalt]

On a design level it's the most balanced DnD system

Even with Psionics being Psionics, they weren't quite as batcrap insane as they were in prior editions.

That's part of why people didn't like it at the time.

Going from 3.5e where everything was broken and unbalanced to completely balanced.

[eager marsh]

everything being numerically identical was unpallettable because everything almost looked like 1 class reskinned to just use a different stat

[rough basalt]

Too peak.

Casters had to deal with being part of the same party rather than the main characters

Then 5e wanted to get the 3.5e crowd back by making it badly balanced and throwing the entire 4e baby out with the bathwater.

[frail wasp]

can't argue with results

[rough basalt]

Then the people who came into 5e in the latter half like me wanted 4e without knowing they wanted 4e

[eager marsh]

players never know what they want until its too late

[empty thicket]

im a simple guy, i want some epic stuff, do high damage and finally hoard some magic items that seems useless but are great for roleplay

[rancid onyx]

Ive always heard 4e was shit but ive never played it so no comment

[rough basalt]

A lot of people who say it's shit probably never played it

[empty thicket]

Like a bottle of boundless coffee or a cleansing stone or a chest of preservation

[rough basalt]

It's kinda like Ranger bad

People just say it cause YT does.

[rancid onyx]

figured

[rancid onyx]

eh i could agree with that a bit but it has been a half decase since ive played

[rough basalt]

4e had issues for sure but they were mostly at a corporate level.

On a design level it was the first edition to have a "social contract" portion in a dmg

Addressing the fact that you are a table of individuals playing together and should remember that respecting your fellow person isn't dropped cause said fellow person is RPing the Dragon trying to kill you.

It's potential issues on a non-corporate level were it's gameyness and reliance on battlemaps

But it's combat map system is pretty much the ideal for battlemap combat systems so it's been used in other systems.

Like Lancer, Daggerheart, Draw Steel.

[crystal star]

ranger isnt bad mechanically (anymore), but its awful thematically. a real mess

[rough basalt]

Pathfinder 2e

[umbral girder]

Yeah 4e was fine with it acknowledging its a game much more than other editions.

[odd valley]

and it turns out that 2014 ranger is unironically the strongest class in the game

[rough basalt]

A lot of changes to 5.5 were just them actually making 5e a sum of all editions.

[broken imp]

lol fr

[rough basalt]

Which was adding 4peak to 5e

[broken imp]

so many say it's the worst class too

only the strongest combat wise tho

[rough basalt]

Like they clearly took note on how the most popular third party book was a bestiary that was pretty much a 4e Monster Manual

Matt Colville helped them realize the truth behind ttrpgs as a whole.
DnD 4th Edition fixes this.

[odd valley]

it’s not bad in the other pillars either

[broken imp]

no but not the best

[woven flint]

My Pugilist was dragged up 2 sets of stairs lol

He survived and kicked ass though
We fought through an entire dungeon because of it lol

[mighty wharf]

Is it just me or is identify better than detect magic? I feel like DMs don't like to give away how something magical works more than they do if it is magical

[frail wasp]

identify is a touch spell, detect magic is not

[mighty wharf]

Plus, if you want to detect if something magical can't you just use identify to detect it anyways?

[rotund abyss]

Do yall remember the Fairy Godfather character I pitched
Yeah I asked my players they haven't even heard of The Godfather so the joke won't land 💔

[mighty wharf]

Detect Magic also doesn't tell you the really important part though. I feel like a lot of DMs assume you would detect a magical presence a lot more than they would the nature of it.

[fossil hollow]

detect magic has been a lot more consistently used in my games due to it just being. an aura

[mighty wharf]

Additionally, if you really want to test if something is magical or not, can't you just use Identify anyways?

[mighty wharf]

Wait, does it follow the player?

[fossil hollow]

one spell slot/ritual at a time, sure

yeah

[mighty wharf]

Oh, so it quite literally is a magic detector, like a magnetic detector is.

[fossil hollow]

yes

Identify is a google search, Detect Magic is just a radar

[mighty wharf]

That's a way better way to understand the spell for me, that's majorly useful if you're walking through a dungeon

[fossil hollow]

yeap. You get to see spells active (what school they are), anything thats a magic item, or any magical effects in general

Someone put a glyph o warding somewhere? Theres an aura of abjuration around it. Magically locked door with Arcane Lock? Abjuration.
Theres a hidden door where it looks like a wall? Illusion

Something is not in its normal shape? Transmutation

[eager marsh]

Let's hope we dont get Identify AI results

[fossil hollow]

pffft

rolling d100s when someone casts Identify now. 01-50, you get an incorrect reading

[mighty wharf]

A bunch of tents with a warding effect, abjuration?

Or they were warded idfk

My DM is weird and makes stuff up

But he doesn't really get spellcasting in the context of DnD I don't think.

[eager marsh]

that can be a bit problematic, especially if you have casters

[fossil hollow]

warding effects in general are abjuration

[somber rivet]

Is it bad that I only picked Dragonborn to play as because I played Skyrim lmao Im new to DnD

[south prawn]

Not at all. Have fun

[eager marsh]

skyrim dragonborn and D&D dragonborn are entirely different

[lavish flame]

nah go hogwild

you won't be doing shouts, but you will be doing breath attacks!

[eager marsh]

theres a feat to make it a shout to be fair

it's not good for most classes but its a fun one

[somber rivet]

I saw Dragonborn as a playable race and just went ape shit on it

made him look like Paarthurnax

[strong ivy]

Yoo

[steel bane]

I made a Druid

Do u guys wanna see

[mighty wharf]

He literally described the nature of the warding effect as "makes them immune to magical conditions." I assumed any condition from a magical source. Apparently what he meant was what I can only describe as non-physical conditions, that can be from a magical source. So something with Restrain, Prone, Blindness, etc. would have been fine (i.e. Web), but charm, petrify, illusions, hallucinations, would not.

[eager marsh]

Restrained, Prone, and Blindness are more often than not from magical sources than physical actually

[mighty wharf]

And there are SO many contexts where this gets really messy really fast.

[strong ivy]

Making a original Fantasy is so difficult

[eager marsh]

He's just winging it it sounds like which is prolly bad when he's trying to use magical effects

[mighty wharf]

They can be. He wasn't saying they couldn't be, he was saying they're not magical conditions I think.

Like, basically conditions a martial could reasonably inflict.

Idk why he didn't just give them Magical Resistance if he wanted to protect them that'd make things so much easier to understand 😭

Especially because like once you cast a spell you can't exactly ask for a refund if the creature is immune, the creature is immune.

[eager marsh]

well yes thats the point. but also there's creatures with spell immunity to anything weaker than a lv 6(?) or higher spell. they're extremely strong

[limber trail]

I don’t know of very many like that - only 2014 Rakshasas actually

[eager marsh]

Thats what i was referencing yes

[limber trail]

There may well be more

But not very many at all

[frank badge]

Does anyone know if there’s any more recently updated wage charts for professions in the forgotten realms?

[mighty wharf]

And I'm just like, immunities fun, how the hell do I play around that without metagaming or just wasting spell slots?

[eager marsh]

there isn't. there's no reason for it.

[mighty wharf]

Especially when my DM gives a bunch of Goblins and Orcs immunity

[eager marsh]

you dont but also, casually handing out immunity is super gamebreaking and lore breaking. doing that isnt easy

[paper portal]

I love playing tanky characters lol

I've been crit 5 times in this fight and took 10 damage total

[mighty wharf]

He didn't make them naturally immune. He did so with a ward essentially.

[eager marsh]

yea a ward that would be an insanely strong spell

the spell Wish can make a target immune to a specific spell for exactly 8 hours and risks making the caster unable to cast wish ever again for refernce

[mighty wharf]

Oh.

I guess this is what happens when you cast hypnotic pattern one too many times.

[eager marsh]

your dm is taking the uncreative approach to try and limit you

[mighty wharf]

Well, I think his intent was for me to destroy the tents first through like... "normal" means I think.

I don't think he intended for me to try and work around it.

[crystal star]

your DM is just inexperienced, dont hold it against them. politely give feedback on what you like and dont like, and they will improve slowly over time

[mighty wharf]

Yeah I mean I get that, I'm not really salty about it I'm just trying to figure out how and what feedback to give back to my DM...

[crystal star]

best format is to be straight forward, honest, and constructive.

1. Whats something you liked about the session?
2. Whats something you didnt like about the session?
3. Whats something you hope to see next time?

of course if you've already openly crashed out/disapproved of the combat this approach might feel disengenious, but long story short, just be honest and straight forward. When giving negative feedback, you can keep it constructive like so

• Last session, "I didnt like this thing,
• because it made me feel this way.
• Next time, i'd like to see a change,
• such as this
• because then i'll feel like this.

Swap out the bolds for your opinions

[mighty wharf]

Sigh my DM is SO unavailable for like communicating and feedback. Anytime I have asked to talk to him about something it's never happened unless it's before or after a session in person.

[crystal star]

Well, if thats the case. bad dnd is worse than no dnd, drop the group and find a better one.

[mighty wharf]

Nah I haven't crashed out I don't think I was just confused and stressed out by my spell not doing what I thought more than anything.

[crystal star]

if its a friend group thing, its obviously more difficult, but you CAN find better groups out there regardless.

[mighty wharf]

Well, it might be my fault. He is a busy guy, and I can be needy and overwhelming.

Needy in like, I ask for a lot. Not like clingy lol

But maybe I'm "asking a lot" because he's just inexperienced and doesn't get DnD magic mechanics.

[limber trail]

You can just ask for a quick chat for 5 mins after your next session. You should be able to find time.

The other option is, just text him and let him know without waiting for him to respond. I know when people message me asking to talk I’m less likely to respond immediately compared to if they just let me know what’s on their mind

[mighty wharf]

I've always said he can respond when he needs to, and he NEVER responds.

[humble cairn]

"I'd really like a response to this before next session" is perfectly legitimate.

[limber trail]

To me “you can respond when you need to” gives a lot of license to not prioritise it, which sometimes leads to people just forgetting

[crystal star]

what is this group? Is it an irl friend?

[mighty wharf]

Yes, this is my IRL friend group.

[crystal star]

A friend would find the time. "I can be needy and overwhelming" you need to have more confidence in yourself. your thoughts and wishes are as important as his

It takes 2 seconds to give a quick heads up he's seen it, and two minutes to give a proper response

[umbral girder]

Can you combine Time Stop with Delayed Fireball?

[eager marsh]

It's not really 'good' but yes

[umbral girder]

Because the Deck of Many More Things gave one of the wizards in my games 3 uses of Time stop

[eager marsh]

delayed blast doesnt effect anyone until it's released so its valid

[umbral girder]

And they are a human so their plan is to save their inspiration to try and get a good roll for the Time stop duration.

[severe rampart]

Damn, the deck of many things is that game breaking

[eager marsh]

Yea but they're using it in the least gamebreaking way lol

they're using it to squeeze an extra 2d6 to 4d6 out of a 'just ok' damage spell

[umbral girder]

The fighter getting 2 uses of True Resurrection is funny

[mighty wharf]

I just really need to practice being succint I think... could I send like a draft through DMs?

[crystal star]

go ahead ^_^

[mighty wharf]

Multiple people I know have said I am very verbose and ramble.

[lean frost]

if it would help at all, i have a feedback form i use from time to time; maybe you could pick it apart for ideas on replaying as a player

[empty thicket]

Yep

its so dangerous that if added be aware that the campaign you are planning can get a lot of changes

or add it in some special way

[lean frost]

the og DoMT and the new ones are just so vibrantly new and changing that i made my own one that went form like small but helpful to like slightly changing but maybe helpful or no. plus it keeps me sharpening my creativity lol

[empty thicket]

i will make it be part of an NPC who the party will trade with
Will give some special magic items and stuff like that
But most importantly, the players will be able to purchase a try in the deck of many things

[lean frost]

a dedicated deck seller is kinda cool! i have these like low-power mid-power cards hideen around the world

[empty thicket]

first try of anyone who dare to take the risk will be free
But any next card will be 200gp the try, random card

But if they want a GOOD card, they are going to need to pay 1000gp

[umbral girder]

Notably there is lower tier decks in The Book of Many Things

Like an Uncommon variant

Also how to turn an individual card into a magic item

[empty thicket]

And if tehy want to pick the card, it would be 5000gp

And cleaning a bad card effect would be just 500gp

[lean frost]

true! mine are often kinda silly but sometimes helpful. like a Card of the Dwarves that when placed on an even surface, turns into a stepstool lol

[empty thicket]

or i would just add the 3 decks and make each one a range of prices with the same idea
random is cheaper but risky
Good is expensive but is a good effect
Chose is the highest
Clean a bad effect is there, expensive but there

[stoic haven]

Deck of Wonder and Deck of Miscellany

Also Deck of Illusions

[rough basalt]

Trying to make sense of 3.5e character creation ain't good for my mind.

[eager marsh]

it's pretty simple. point buy. apply racials. pick lv 1 feat. apply class. it's complex after that

[rough basalt]

Wait point buy.

[eager marsh]

point buy existed in 3.5 yes. you can also roll

[rough basalt]

Huh the PHB just says roll

[eager marsh]

really? i distinctly recall elite array existing as well as point buy back then too

[rough basalt]

It might. I can't read.

[eager marsh]

me either

[rough basalt]

I think im about done with it. I'm just getting frustrated with Roll20 like usual.

I think I just have to fill in my spells per day and do my skills

[eager marsh]

does roll20 have a 3.5 character sheet option...?

[rough basalt]

The one my games using looks like the sheet I remember using irl years ago

[eager marsh]

noice

[rough basalt]

Playing a transmuter.

[eager marsh]

id love to try playing 3.5 again if possible with people that actually know the system. i wanna play a duskblade still

[rough basalt]

Since apparently transmutation in 3.5e was really strong and I like transmutation.

[spring timber]

im a new. dm, what do i need to run some tabletop with friends

[rough basalt]

Duskblade was something I looked at but I figured keeping to core classwige might be best for me.

I'll ask someone from my group to help me clean my sheet up before session tomorrow.

[vagrant notch]

Any species recommendation for a samurai?

[rough basalt]

Any

[vagrant notch]

Itd be so funny to use tortle lul

[eager marsh]

Duskblade was actually fairly 'underpowered' relative to other classes as far as i recall because it was the first book they added armored casting mechanics and the overestimated how strong that was as a feature (it was just ok)

[rough basalt]

If using racial ASIs, something with Strength/Dex and Wisdom

The physical stats being which kinda fighter you'd be doing.

And Wisdom is Samurais substat iirc

[rough basalt]

I do like how Elves specifically don't have the main drawback for multiclasses out of wizard out of core.

[eager marsh]

Humans dont either since they have the wild card favored class

and iirc its only cases where your multiclasses arent within 1 lv of each other

[rough basalt]

Humans adapting to the multiclass penalty

[eager marsh]

like if you went from wizard/fighter 2/2 into 2/4 or somehting you start taking penalty without favored class

Prestige classes i think were excepmpt too

[rough basalt]

I know for awhile me trying to understand stuff is just gonna be "uhhhh" while the dial up sound plays in my head

[eager marsh]

i still remember most rules off hand since i learned 3.5 first but its been...a whle

[crimson gulch]

I just bought a core rulebook set of 3.5

[rough basalt]

I only played like 4 sessions back when I tried tabletop games for the first time.

[crimson gulch]

Ebay shipping will have it Here first week of may

[rough basalt]

Nice

I just bought a setting book for Pathfinder 2e for an adventure I'm running starting next monrh

[hollow spruce]

One of my friends is trying to play a bush Druid that can't talk in a cyberpunk inspired campaign which is on a planet that as far as I'm aware has little to no plant life, I'm cooked;-;

[rough basalt]

It's for their Africa inspired place.

I wasn't gonna but then I saw they had it for half off on their site and was like "definitely gonna take that"

[eager marsh]

You tell them the character is literally inappropriate/unreasonable for the established setting and politely ask them to change

[rough basalt]

Even in a setting DnD is best for where wackiness is enabled to a degree, I'd still vetoe that character idea to back up what Ryu is saying.

[hollow spruce]

Yeah, we vetoed it but still this guy has had similar problems before and has what my dm considers the "My way or no way" mindset for stuff like this

[rough basalt]

Then he's gone.

I get he's a friend, but "my way or no way" isn't healthy for a group to have around in a collaborative setting.

It's why we scold kids for acting that way.

[hollow spruce]

Wanna hear the real funny thing about this

[eager marsh]

yea thats the personality that isnt right for a D&D group long term imo

[hollow spruce]

He once tried to veto my character because he was "too tall"

[mint junco]

Hi

[rough basalt]

How tall was the PC?

[hollow spruce]

9ft but in my groups campaigns there are like 4 homebrew species that are averagely taller than this and wouldn't have caused a problem

[rough basalt]

Ah yeah that's ridiculous then

[kindred solar]

If my DM’s subscription runs out will all the content shared the content on my character sheet be deleted for D&D Beyond?

[hollow spruce]

He made a whole fit about it then he tries to play a character that breaks one of the fundamentals of roleplay for dnd and then gets mad when he gets told he can't play it

[eager marsh]

unless you're large size 9ft tall is too tall imo. Goliaths arent even that tall

granted that doesnt exuse his hypocrisy but still

[rough basalt]

Ye in an ordinary game, but they clarified their group had homebrew species that are larger than that

[copper wyvern]

Hey, im a new player, whats going on in this game? If you don't mind me asking. Id love to learn, seems cool!

[rough basalt]

#dnd-newcomers

[copper wyvern]

Them!

Tysm*

[eager marsh]

i wouldnt really think any speciews homebrew or not should be that tall unless they're actually just large size category

[hollow spruce]

Yeah these were species that my DM himself made so it wasn't the kind of homebrew that gets joked about of being broken and having an action that does like 20d100 force damage or smth

[hollow spruce]

But I get it, if I remember correctly he was set as a large character tho it has been a while

[eager marsh]

if he was actually considered Large category then yea any argument against being 9ft tall is unreasonable

[kindred solar]

Anyone know about free alternatives to D&D Beyond/roll 20

[eager marsh]

those are already free? Owlbear exists too

[lavish flame]

Owlbear Rodeo is a free VTT, but it will not host a character sheet for you afaik

[severe rampart]

Owlbear is a very good VTT

[lavish flame]

thats sorta its appeal

[kindred solar]

They’re free* with most stuff being behind a paywall

[eager marsh]

Not anything relevant? Character sheets can be directly filled in just fine. You don’t need any of the virtual books to add things to a sheet

[kindred solar]

There’s like one sub class per class without buying the players handbook or other books of the sort

[eager marsh]

Which doesn’t matter as I said you can manually enter everything

If you have access to any of the books irl or something you just directly add the features

[kindred solar]

True I suppose

[eager marsh]

Granted beyond that may be a bit trickier (I used it once and it was mildly belligerent) but the roll20 sheets you can edit every line directly like a paper sheet without issue

[severe rampart]

How do I paladinmax

[frosty fulcrum]

Why is it when I look at dnd content on tiktok. It had to be that specific group where one is laughing at “gentle release on your face”

[severe rampart]

Legends of Avantris?

[frosty fulcrum]

I’m afraid so

[severe rampart]

It's a fairly popular group

[lean frost]

i was just watching some of their clips lol

[frosty fulcrum]

Is understandable they’re funny and probably the reason why I want to get into dnd

[severe rampart]

A lot of D&D groups are like that

been in many campaigns, many fun moments, and I've only been playing for 5 months

[frosty fulcrum]

I’m completely new to it. So hello ^^

[lean frost]

saame here. all of my groups have had alternating serious heart wrenching moments, and side splitting moments, and everything inbetween

[eager marsh]

Smite blasphemers and chew bubblegum

[lean frost]

i understood that reference lol

[oak grotto]

Especially campaigns that are basically meant to act as entertainment for other DnD players.

[severe rampart]

✍️ ... use... smite everytime you hit..

[severe rampart]

Fun first and foremost

[eager marsh]

Sorry only once per turn mate

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah, don't worry, still in tier 1 Paladin

I know it's a Bonus Action now

[odd valley]

smite bubblegum and chew blasphemers, and i’m all out of blasphemers

[eager marsh]

That poor bubblegum

[oak grotto]

Personally I am more fond of games that have a realistic balance between comedy and seriousness. Too much silliness makes it feel like I'm watching a Looney Tunes show.

[odd valley]

sometimes i just love me a game of benny hill though

[eager marsh]

I get too deep into roleplay. One shots I think are fine for silly but I prefer a more serious tone for actual campaigns

[severe rampart]

It's the reason why I don't actually watch Legends of Avantris

I'd rather the World of Io, especially their hardcore games

[oak grotto]

Yeah, all of my DnD characters were made for reasonably serious games. That applies to my less serious characters too. Just because they have a tendency to be a bit too silly doesn't mean that they're still going to do tomfoolery in more serious and dark moments.

[copper wyvern]

How to I get someone to adopt me into their campaign 😭 I feel like a lost British victorian boy

[lavish flame]

In this server, you gotta read thru #find-a-game and then check out the options in #looking-for-players

In other places (like r/lfg), you might just browse posts and send people DMs

[lean frost]

yeep, thats how i picked up my peeps. sent posts thru here and reddits, and had em all fill out a form. picked from there

[crystal star]

campaign pitch: Party goes to face a wizard at his tower, but they are shrunk to the size of ants and thrown out the window into the yard. They must survive in the gargantuan wilderness, find a way back to the tower, undo the spell, and finally kill the wizard

[lean frost]

whimsical with a dash of "oh shit we gotta lock in". i like it!

[crystal star]

offers a lot of really interesting combat encounters too. Imagine a battle with a fire elemental in a fry pan!

[hot gate]

It's a fun setup, just be ready to answer the question of why the druid doesn't suddenly turn into a normal sized cat

And other size and form changing effects

[crystal star]

"it was a really powerful modified reduce spell" custom made by the wizard himself

I think players who arent acting in bad faith would be willing to run with the basic premise of the campaign

[lean frost]

Anti-magic spell that functions in layers; to normal-sized ppl it would function as a mild deterrent or like, sensor. But the wizard uses part of it as an area of effect bug spray. and sicne you're the size of said bugs...well when in rome, you live by their rules.

[hot gate]

Well, on the contrary, it could be really fun. I'm just saying be ready to answer the question, since it will almost certainly come up.

I had a great time being a horse-sized ant once in a similar setup

[crystal star]

maybe if it was a one off session gimmick rather then a whole campaign... How exactly do you see that playing out, session to session? One person being 'normal sized' while the rest are [engaging with the campaign]?

[feral fulcrum]

Session went well, group managed to finish the dragon off before it could get the chance to kill me.

[lean frost]

I think it could still be a cool idea for a campaign, maybe like a mini one that goes for a cpl months.
I see it as the party lost in deep wilderness, maybe interacting with bugs/races that are either homebrewed/reimagined bugs/etc. They piece together what happened, they figure out how to fix it, they put a plan together meanwhile to take down the wizard, and it all comes together with some hitches and twists on the way

but it could also be a one off sesh gimmick of "this was this sessions setback"

[crystal star]

🙂‍↕️ thats exactly right! though i could potentially see it being a long term one that gets up to tier 3 even. I imagine a sandboxy survival opening, where the party must get their bearings and survive in the land surrounding the wizards tower, as kinda the 'first half' of the adventure, before they gather enough information to finally be able to enter the wizards tower and start the second half, where they find enhanced, experimented on versions of the mobs and monsters they've come to know. The big boss of the tower? The wizards cat familiar! or maybe an owl?

[lean frost]

i think you should run with that! it sounds refreshing, and plenty of opportunities for silly moments and heartwrenching scenes and everything inbetween

[crystal star]

mmm affimation acquired, time to make a listing

[lean frost]

indeed!:)

[leaden marlin]

Pardon for the intrusion, but does anyone know a good dnd world map generator (possibly not powered by gen ai)?

[reef tundra]

Watabou on itch.io

[hot gate]

Watabou has a bunch of great ones yeah

[lean frost]

sure thing. so inkarnate and azgaar are my go tos, but im not sure what powers azgaar.

[reef tundra]

Works well for me, city maps, village maps, dungeon maps, etc

[lean frost]

donjon might have some as well!

[leaden marlin]

I just specified to not be jumped at the chance of using gen ai usage

[hot gate]

Azgaar was around way before gen ai, so its probably not powered by them

[reef tundra]

Oh no worries, I respect it, I look for the same

[leaden marlin]

You’ll be surprised on how many saving throws you need to do nowadays with some people when ai gets mentioned hahahahhaha

[lean frost]

im aware, but i did not think azgaar was the same as gen ai. i was not sure of that however, which is why i said it the way i did so that you could disregard if needed

i dont blame ya for wanting to avoid it one bit 🙂

[paper portal]

Ngl brings me back to the idea of using minecraft as a vtt

Just build your battlemaps :3

[reef tundra]

My friend did that once!

It was genius. A lot of work though

[paper portal]

Oh awesome

Did they have like mods or

[reef tundra]

I could never

[reef tundra]

Nah, they just did their best

Only did it for one session though

[paper portal]

Yeah that's valid lol

[hot gate]

That sounds amazing but so much overkill

[paper portal]

I'd want stuff that actually held like character sheets and stuff although that might be a bit much cus it would also mean holding like spells and stuff

[hot gate]

At that point you're creating a videogame

[lean frost]

with minecraft is crazy; i love that!

[leaden marlin]

You have no idea how much I feel mind blown by this website. I’m shocked I just found out about it only today in 2y of playing dnd
Thanks a lot! @lean frost @reef tundra @hot gate

[hot gate]

Though to be fair, other vtts like foundry can also feel like videogames

[hot gate]

Right? Watabou is a treasure

[reef tundra]

No worries!

[paper portal]

Not really it would still be dnd just a vtt that holds all the character details without you needing to do stuff manually

[lean frost]

no prob! i hope it runs faster for you on your end than it ever seems to run for me!😂

(oh and if you ever wanna port over an inkarnate map bc inkarnate does visuals of maps better than Azgaar,[but Az does stats better] you can port it over, its just a pain)

[hot gate]

But couldn't you make like automatic templates and resource tracking and ... 😏

But sure, I get you

[vestal drum]

What would the correct terminology be for a cleric getting their powers?

For example, a sorcerer would be "discovered" because they always had it. A wizard would "studied". A Warlock could be "granted"....would cleric be the same?

[hot gate]

You could say a cleric is blessed

[paper portal]

Mostly I just really like the idea of being able to build 3d battlemaps for the players but I'd want it to actually do vtt stuff too

[lean frost]

i could see an argument for granted, but perhaps ordained? or "bequeathed"? maybe. or "distinguished" for one that feels more fancyschmancy

oh! blessed is a great solid one!

[vestal drum]

Oooooo I like these

[hot gate]

Welly there are 3d vtts. I never tried Talespire though

And doing 3d in foundry is possible, but I'm not looking forward to 10x the prep time

[lean frost]

there are some neat modules by Ripper to assist, but yeah im scared of doing 3d on foundry😅

[hot gate]

(also r.i.p. Sigil we barely knew ye)

[leaden marlin]

YOOOOOOO, THANKS I’LL KEEP IT IN MIND

[lean frost]

yee! That way you get the ease of visuals and "actual world map" looking-ness with inkarnate, but the "generate the hell out of stats for everywhere" for azgaar.

cuz i mean, you could just transplant the stats and rewrite where you want them, but where's the fun in that lol

[reef tundra]

I wish I wasn’t so bad with technology. No VTT has worked right for me, same as note takers :(

Tried Chronicler, tried roll20, but my brain 😭

[lean frost]

Awh damn; i swear by foundry but maaan it had a learnin curve

[hot gate]

Owlbear? 👀

[lean frost]

ooh oiwlbear is nice

[reef tundra]

Haven’t tried it, I’ll give it a look

[glass granite]

Owlbear is simple enough in my experience

It’s the one I use

[reef tundra]

I saw that “I tried 14 VTTs, this is the best one” video, so I have a list to try

[hot gate]

It really does a good job at abstracting the complexity away. By far the most user friendly vtt in my experience

[reef tundra]

Hmmm, in that case I’ll have to try it sooner

[hot gate]

DDB maps is also pretty good, but lagging behind Owlbear

[lean frost]

definitely most friendly! foundry is like most complex and most capabilities, but when you just need maps and a good time, owlbear is the shit

[cedar bane]

in owlbear rodeo we trust

[severe rampart]

Owlbear!

[hot gate]

It also has a surprising number of optional modules, which is great. Allows you to start out with the basics and then only add what you need

[reef tundra]

As for notes, I think I’ll keep using Google docs, it has exactly what I need

[severe rampart]

Definitely

[cedar bane]

its a great basic template which you can add complexity to

[cedar bane]

same, i only wish i could add more subsections

3 is not nearly enough

[lean frost]

anyone use obsidian for their dnd notes? I desperately want to, but have niehter the time nor the consistency lol

instead, google docs is my steady solid

[reef tundra]

I’ve recently started using tabs and holy hell I can fit whole campaigns in it

[glass granite]

I’ve been using the notes app and it’s working for me, and if that works then docs should be enough

[lean frost]

oooh

[reef tundra]

World notes, session notes, other mechanics, NPC list

[hot gate]

Yes, it's great

[cedar bane]

just do what i do which is having absolutely no sorting of notes and going off the dome over my scattered 30k words

[lean frost]

niiice

[reef tundra]

Amen

[severe rampart]

The only thing I dislike about Owlbear is that it can't auto roll initiative but it's alright, not that big a deal

[hot gate]

I like that you control all the data it's storing. I was an am still using Notion, but since that one is a freemium service and all the data is on their servers, I'm trying to get away from it.

Luckily, Notion is customer friendly enough to let you export all your data.

[lean frost]

fair! I find that while i love the concept of obsidian, its much easier to actually get the damn words and thoughts down with Docs, soo i go with what the adhd brain allows lol

[hot gate]

And docs are always accessible, I get it.
My "path" was also Google Docs > Notion > Obsidian

[lean frost]

yup! yup exactly you get it lol

[leaden marlin]

I have been experimenting with all 6 Watabou websites and I feel like there should be a 7th one for straight up continents or world maps

Other than that, it’s amazing.

[reef tundra]

Agreed

[hot gate]

Agzaar sorta does that one. It even inter-links watabou things like location maps and heraldry

[reef tundra]

WHAT

[hot gate]

yeah it's dope

[reef tundra]

Okay I must try this

Agzaar, I must remember

[leaden marlin]

Even better, may I say, if all these websites can intertwine. Like, imagine making a world map and from there you divide it in realms, which leads you into the realm editor (and so on, with villages, towns, etc.)

[hot gate]

Sorry, azgaar, this one
https://azgaar.github.io/Fantasy-Map-Generator/

[leaden marlin]

I’ll also search it rn
Only shame is that I’m using my iPad. The PC would have been much better if I had it with me in this period.

[reef tundra]

Ty!

[hot gate]

Yeah azgaar's an absolute performance hog, it basically runs bad on everything lol

don't try to switch to 3d mode unless you have a good pc

When you click on a location on the azgaar map you'll see that it links to watabous generators to create the details.

[normal coral]

Are the 2024 premades on D&D Beyond any good? Decent enough for a one-shot for beginners?

[hot gate]

Sure

The generator is good enough that it basically always spits out something playable

[dim wasp]

mish

so apparently u can get alot of the stuff for free from wikis within the DnD books?

[leaden marlin]

Random question

If you were to associate a type of government for all 12 classes, which would be the best?

Artificer
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Warlock
Wizard

[severe rampart]

Monarchy for Sorcerers, though, this question would probably be fueled on stereotypes of classes

[leaden marlin]

Tbh, even stereotypical wise, it’s fine

[glass granite]

Theocracy for Clerics

[errant crag]

Kraterocracy Barbarians

[leaden marlin]

Keep it coming with ideas, thank you

[glass granite]

I wonder who would be anarchy. There’s gotta be someone

[leaden marlin]

I wanted to make a 13 state that was about anarchy, separated from all clsses

Also I was thinking of Shogun governament for warrior

[glass granite]

Would rogues be communism?

[limber trail]

Anarchy

[humble cairn]

There are 13 official D&D classes.

[limber trail]

Or well actually

[leaden marlin]

What did I miss?

[glass granite]

Monk

[leaden marlin]

OH WAIT MONK?

[limber trail]

Rogues would function essentially with the government of a thieves guild

[humble cairn]

If you wanted one beyond the classes it would have to be the 14th one.

[glass granite]

My main is disrespected

[leaden marlin]

Which would be? 🤔

[leaden marlin]

As a Monk appreciator, I deeply apologize.

[humble cairn]

I dunno, I'm just saying your count is off.

I don't think making a whole society based on one class makes a lot of sense, honestly.

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah it makes no sense outside of like, a five second meme.

[leaden marlin]

The reason as to why I wanted to make this silly thing is for a premise of a campaign I want to prepare for when I’ll come back for my home-country.

The premise is that, long time ago, the entire world had a single giant continent (a Pangea). A dark force arised and a party of 13 people (representing each class) set out to stop this evil. But because of a fatal flaw (literal or characterial), while they did seal the evil (even though some wanted to defeat it), they created a world-wide cataclism that shattered the world into an arcipelago of different countries.

Despite starting to beef up with each other, the world went in total anarchy and the 13, with grudges, set out to become the rulers of different lands, creating the 13 states we know today.

The plot involves around a group of 7 players (+6 NPCs) who lost their memories after the ends of Chapter Prologue to explore the vast world with tons of adventures and mysteries to discover

[limber trail]

I've got a whole society based on Paladins, who are maybe one of the closer ones, and even that is a dysfunctional state which is technologically crippled and fell apart the second any order that isn't devotion or redemption became the most powerful

[leaden marlin]

So the class to state is just supposed to represent the person in charge of the state and how might be turning it if he had full control over it.

[humble cairn]

Right so it's about those specific characters and their Ideals.

So what you want to do is sketch out those specific personalities and extrapolate from there.

[leaden marlin]

good idea
I'll probably come back later with those personalities and present them here

[humble cairn]

Sounds like a good project for #dm-world-building.

[past blaze]

Based purely off of vibes
Scientocracy (as an actual governmental system term), Kratocracy, Egalitarian, Theocracy, Commune, Stratocracy, Virtuocracy, Frontier Governance, Syndicate, Monarchy, and Geniocracy
Maybe Monk would also be a Stratocracy given the warrior side, but idk based on the focus and discipline side

[narrow cove]

Hello

[errant crag]

Something that I've heard lately and wanna try in 5e Is that in older editions XP and levelling was based around finding treasure/gold

And I feel like that could introduce some interesting habits in players that is different from normal milestone and XP leveling

[humble cairn]

Very old school.

[errant crag]

I think it could be a good method for my more mechanical and less roleplay/story driven games I run

And I can still use milestone or something similar if I do a proper campaign

[wraith pewter]

i think xp leveling is so boring

[errant crag]

I feel it depends a lot on how its being ran

[wraith pewter]

explain ?

[errant crag]

I feel, like most things when it comes to D&D, it can be done right and be fun otherwise nobody would do it

[hexed slate]

I really like xp leveling

[wraith pewter]

it can be done right but not effectively

[hexed slate]

in encourages people to actually engage with things, and allows for a less rainroaded game

[wraith pewter]

cause if anytime one person takes 1 one more level the equality is gone

[errant crag]

XP doesn't work like that in 5e

[wraith pewter]

i dont know the old version but this is my idea

[hexed slate]

xp is equally divided in 5e

[errant crag]

In 5e when they defeat an encounter (through violence or otherwise) the XP of all the enemies in the encounter is divided amongst the party equally

Nobody should be outlevelling the others unless the DM specifically does so

[wraith pewter]

every one needs same amount of xp right (for 1 level)

?

[errant crag]

In 5e yes

[hexed slate]

yes

[errant crag]

Everybody levels at the same thresholds

[wraith pewter]

hmm

its sound right but Ive never tried iyt

[errant crag]

And its not just rewarded on kills

[wraith pewter]

in the loots either

[errant crag]

Like i said, it can be done right and effectively

[reef tundra]

Hopefully my princes of the apocalypse campaign will be the one to finally make me use XP

[errant crag]

It depends on you're running it

[wraith pewter]

I understanded now

and sorry for my english I am new in the universal discord servers

[errant crag]

Its not a problem, you're perfectly fine

[wraith pewter]

talking is easy but typing is so connfusing

[humble cairn]

I prefer story based leveling.

[reef tundra]

Milestone for the win 💪 (in our subjective opinion)

[humble cairn]

Technically "Milestone" still uses exp.

[errant crag]

I would want to try XP if I was doing something like an exploration based hexcrawl game

[humble cairn]

I just prefer to skip exp altogether and just level based on the story.

[reef tundra]

Same. I should really try it one day

[errant crag]

My table kinda just does vibe based levelling, yeah it feels like you guys have done enough for a level at this point

[narrow cove]

I am new to dnd

Someone help please

[past blaze]

#dnd-newcomers will be the place to be

[humble cairn]

Check out #dnd-newcomers

[narrow cove]

Thank you

[hexed slate]

xp is nice to give a sense of progression

[limber trail]

I’m playing in an XP game and it’s honestly felt a little awkward - it’s made taking any time to explore and rp and investigate feel kinda like wasted time since it doesn’t directly contribute to XP rewards. I think it requires the DM to give more XP rewards beyond just combat

It’s also messed around with some of the level pace - the party was a couple levels ahead of where we should be in the module

[frosty fulcrum]

um I wanna ask. Are Warforged man-made constructs?

[fair summit]

They are man-made (though might wanna ask #dnd-lore for more specifics if you're looking for lore details), but not mechanically constructs as they are considered humanoids

[frosty fulcrum]

Ah I see but I'll shift my question to the lore chat

[humble cairn]

Newest stats for them have them with the Construct tag.

[fair summit]

Okay?
I don't use 5.5e though

[limber trail]

Might be best to acknowledge both then rather than only the legacy version since their most recent publishing is as a construct

[fair summit]

Fair, though in such case it might be better to mention it to the other person to whom it might be useful, rather than ping the one whose edition number is on their name about it 😛

[dim wasp]

why do so many people prefer 5e to 5.5e?

[feral fulcrum]

Stubbornness, more then anything.

It's almost always "It's new and therefore objectively worse because New."

It's a phenomona as old as time.

[fair summit]

No idea about others, but personally while I do like couple changes in 5.5e (like the weapon masteries and some bufffs to some spells), there are changes I really don't like (like backgrounds and the feats tied to them, certain spell changes, changes to grappling and hiding, and some other stuff) which are higher in number then changes I like, and most other stuff is generally neutral or basically just the same, so I really can't justify spending all the money again getting the new books, when I already own basically all of 5e ones

[limber trail]

It varies from person to person, For some, it's just what they played and play with their groups - no need to buy new books etc. Some folks dislike the changes 5e made (there are some fair criticisms of changes made to classes like warlock and paladin). I know some people prefer it for optimization reasons but that's a very small subset of the community.

(I will agree that while I like each individual change made to backgrounds they feel all together like a bit too much and backgrounds end up feeling more limited than they should)

[limber trail]

I don't necessarily think reducing it to stubbornness is the most productive way to have the conversation, there's value to be had in legitimately considering the reasons people have for sticking with 5e which imo are pretty often reasonable, even though I personally don't use 5e

[glass granite]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[dim wasp]

are u broke

[cedar bane]

its the same reason some people prefer 4e. just general preference over mechanics or changes

[fair summit]

But hey, luckily new edition doesn't remove the old one, so both sides can still play the one they prefer, and even pick and choose stuff they like from the other version if they like 😎

[glass granite]

Idk

[humble cairn]

Right, I suppose I should have addressed the person who was asking the original question since you just gave the out of date answer, which is totally valid and fine for you to use, but also an incomplete answer for that person.

[feral fulcrum]

There are some legitmate complaints, but most of the discourse i've seen on 5.5E in regards to not wanting to use it, has mostly just been "5E was fine, only gonna keep using 5E." And that's pretty much it.

[fair summit]

I gave the answer I knew, others using the up to date rules can supplement it for the person looking for answers
5e is still used on the server, so answers with that edition remain valid

[humble cairn]

Yes, they are, but they are also actual living and ensouled creatures.

[glass granite]

I imagine it’s some personal preferences, or familiarity of the system. If you’re already enjoying a system, no need to learn a whole nother one and buy all the books.

I personally play 2024 for two main reasons:

1. Importantly, it’s just the one I learned
2. Monks are much stronger now lezgooo

[glass granite]

That being said, I wouldn’t call sticking to something you know and saving money “stubbornness”. They likely just see no value in investing in 2024, and fairly so.

[limber trail]

I've seen quite a few pretty fair complaints of it which do at least merit mentioning. They might not always be the most common ones, But when someone asks for the reasons why people don't use 5e, it's usually better to address the full spectrum of issues. Individual things like personal preference and habit of course do matter, but it's not just those. I also would say, it's usually pretty likely that at least some of those reinforced habits are because they didn't love the changes made by 5.5e.

[eager marsh]

Monk '14 and '24 are like day and night and its great

[humble cairn]

Of course! Absolutely valid and also incomplete at the same time.

[fair summit]

You don't need to ping me each time, by the way

You can select the button the remove the ping when responding

[humble cairn]

Ok, but I'm pretty sure I won't remember to do so in the future since it's not in your nickname to remind me. Apologies.

[fair summit]

I don't mind being pinged in general so I don't wanna just add it, so people can grab my attention when needed
But for an ongoing conversation pings are just gonna be annoying

[humble cairn]

Feel free to ping me with each and every response, it helps me keep track of a conversation!

[eager marsh]

same

[humble cairn]

Different people prefer different things for different reasons.

[rough basalt]

It's an individual thing yeah

Some people just don't wanna switch that goes for any game of all time that has continuations

Some people don't like that 5.5e is more balanced so every class brings something substantial to the table.

Some people don't like it purely cause it's new = bad.

Or some people don't like it cause they prefer flavor oriented design (2014-2017) over mechanics oriented design (2017 to Present)

[reef tundra]

I can see ups and downs of both design methods, and I see merits and downsides of both versions

While I enjoy sticking close to the rules, I have been combining both versions to make one of my favourite TTRPG experiences

[limber trail]

I ultimately prefer to use 5.5e, but there’s definitely a couple changes I would consider making that are a bit more in line with 5es design if I ever felt optimistic enough to delve more into homebrew

[rough basalt]

I kinda hate 5e so 5.5e was a godsend for me.

[undone rain]

So what does it mean to be neutral good and true neutral

[undone rain]

Why do you not like 5e if i may ask

[reef tundra]

Neutral good, to me, is someone who aims to do good, while trying to follow rules and laws, but will not mind bending or breaking them to do good

[glad arch]

Dnd allignments are a bit iffy to follow very strictly

[reef tundra]

That too

[rough basalt]

Neutral Good means you'll likely follow the law as best as possible to be good but will sometimes ignore it if it's for good.
True Neutral means you just do stuff that furthers your goals without leaning towards a good or evil route inherently.

[undone rain]

So like lets say a neutral good finds 50 bucks layin outside. While a lawful good would pick it up and return it to the police, while a neutral good would most likeley keep it

[rough basalt]

Nah

That'd be more True Neutral I'd say.

[undone rain]

Would they just ignore it?

[hot gate]

They'd probably try to return it

[rough basalt]

It's part of where alignment falls apart

[dense pebble]

Yeah this would be the most likely answer

[undone rain]

Confusing stuff

[dense pebble]

a neutral good may be convinced to take it / keep it based on circumstances for example if their party is dirt poor then a neutral good would take it

[severe rampart]

That's why alignment has problems

[rough basalt]

5e had a lot of issues that over time began grating on me.

[glad arch]

Pick an alligment that somewhat fits then never look at it again

[dense pebble]

I haven't played dnd in forever omg

[glad arch]

Your character isnt made by your allignment, its made by the choices they make and the actions they take

[undone rain]

For me ill just pick lawful good for goody two shoes, chaotic good for anti villain

[rough basalt]

Chaotic Good is more anti-hero rather than anti-villain.

[severe rampart]

Also it's a pain when you explain your character and someone says "That's not CN that's x", alignment is just a bother and doesn't really serve anything

[undone rain]

I dont really see the difference tbh.

[dense pebble]

In my past dnd campaign nobody really cared

[rough basalt]

An anti-hero is someone who does heroic deeds in a way that society and other heroes don't entirely appreciate.

[glad arch]

And outside of some artifact level magic items its also not really used much

[dense pebble]

Unless if it was actually out of pocket like a chaotic good going and killing someone for fun

[rough basalt]

An anti-villain is a villain who opposes other villains in a "heroic manner" cause they're in his way or a danger to them.

[paper portal]

That's how it should be tbh alignment is a bad system

[reef tundra]

It’s more guidelines than a strict code really

[undone rain]

Ohhhh i mixed em up

[paper portal]

It's descriptive, not prescriptive :3

[dense pebble]

I think as the other person sad it was a guideline not very strict. It gives the DM a like warning on how you will act

[reef tundra]

CR and alignment are similar in the way that they’re not really accurate, but points you to the right ballpark

[severe rampart]

What the- this isn't wings

[glad arch]

Yes the 'chaotic neutral' character will be a gremlin of chaos

[paper portal]

Yep amity is right about everything all the time (except the martial caster divide :3c)

[reef tundra]

I am right all the time >:(

[rough basalt]

CR and Alignment are kinda eh

[glad arch]

Im always right except when im not

[paper portal]

I changed my name!! Not sure I'll stick with it but I like jackalope a lot

[rough basalt]

CR is accurate for what the system expects the game to be played like

[severe rampart]

But then, what if you say you were wrong, would that create a paradox?

[rough basalt]

Alignment is mainly just an archaic thing

[glad arch]

Just nobody plays it like that

[paper portal]

Of course you are :3 I'm still gonna tease you about the martial caster divide though

[empty thicket]

it help to set limits of character actions

[reef tundra]

Exactly. And then I turn into a black hole

[rough basalt]

And limits of character actions are annoying tbh

[severe rampart]

Doesn't the book state like 5-7 encounters a day?

[empty thicket]

depend, i find it helping to guide one itself

[rough basalt]

Especially cause people don't understand alignment anyways

[reef tundra]

I speak the truth as I see. It’s never affected my games, but I won’t deny that it’s likely only because my games are not hyper optimised

[glad arch]

Not sure what it says but ive heard the dmg suggests more encounters a day then most play

[paper portal]

Shhh let me ragebait you

[rough basalt]

Like most of the time "lawful good" PCs are the biggest murderers and thugs I ever see.

[rough basalt]

It suggests more than 2 encounters at least per day

[dense pebble]

right

[empty thicket]

yep, that is the thing that should be "limited"

[severe rampart]

That's why I used to say I was CN, no one can ever question me about my behavior

[rough basalt]

Which most people don't wanna do more than 1 encounter per day then blame the devs for it.

[empty thicket]

"you are a good guy, remember, you dont want to harm people without really needing"

[glad arch]

Thats why we play neutral good, we can kill anyone as long as it helps someone 😃

[rough basalt]

That's more chaotic.

[dense pebble]

One fight per day is enough for me, one small fight as a bonus can be fun

[glad arch]

Sssh, i need to feel better about my characters action from last session

[glad arch]

Spellcasters go brrrrr

[rough basalt]

One fight per day is your prerogative but when it causes issues it's on you

[severe rampart]

Lawful good

Get the enemy a citizenship to a town
Get them charged for their crimes
Be assigned as their executioner /j

[rough basalt]

There's also the case of people who'll use LG in games with corrupt and messed up laws to justify their bad behavior.

[paper portal]

Isn't that LN anyways

[rough basalt]

LG ime is just CE in disguise.

[severe rampart]

yeah, hm, reflecting on this, I kind of am guilty of a little bit, my Hexblade Warlock PC's patron god is the goddess of order, so he must abide by the laws of the town he's in, etc. I kind of feel like that limits him from certain actions he wants to do, perhaps I should change it? I wouldn't want to remove autonomy from my PCs

[viral kraken]

i think they are largely the same other than respect for rules. i think the le guy really loves institutionalized oppression

[rough basalt]

I just really dislike alignment.

[glad arch]

LG character when they get into a town where the purge is a thing

Its in the law...

[paper portal]

Yeah it's not a good system

[viral kraken]

ya it's silly, it's like as deep as a buzzfeed personality quiz

[severe rampart]

Hey now, if the quiz told me I'm pinkie pie, I'm pinkie pie buddy

[glad arch]

Youre telling me im not odysseus from the odysey?

How do we feel about the character trait section? 'Personality trait, flaw, ideal'

[rough basalt]

The "martial caster divide" is another thing almost entirely made "real" due to 1 encounter day DMs btw.

[severe rampart]

It's an improvement

[viral kraken]

i like traits, ideals, bonds, and flaws. also the "this is your life" from xge is fun

[rough basalt]

Better.

[glad arch]

I can understand a 1 encounter session but 1 encounter days get wild

[errant whale]

warlocks don't necessarily need to align with their patron? unless that's part of their pact or something

[severe rampart]

Part of the pact

[glad arch]

Youd probably want to please the source of your power though

[rough basalt]

Ye 1 encounter day should only be a thing in travel portions.

[severe rampart]

Hey now... it wasn't my fault they failed their stealth mission twice

[glad arch]

We spend an entire day just getting resources and planning for a raid we were gonna do at nightfall. So in the end we only had 1 encounter but thats not (and imo should not) be the average adventurers day

[severe rampart]

Oh wait, no, they started the session in the prison, yeah, the entire day had 2 or 3 encounters

Their resources run out quickly, so it's a pretty good lesson to teach

[glad arch]

The trigger happy wizard when they get to the 5th encounter of the day

[graceful quest]

Hay does anyone wanna join our dnd group we are looking for a Dm currently

[severe rampart]

This is why Sorcerers are fun

[severe rampart]

#looking-for-dm

[viral kraken]

you might try #looking-for-dm

[stray lantern]

10th level wizards having access to 15 different spells per long rest, and a 5th level spell being able to do in 1 round what would take a martial several rounds.

[graceful quest]

Thank u

[glad arch]

I know sp can be used to convert into spell slots but those are still limited too

[rough basalt]

A 5th level spell that a monster can easily save on due to magic resistance and high saves being more common at higher levels

[severe rampart]

Which is why you invest a little in warlock

[rough basalt]

Also damage resistances/immunities

[stray lantern]

Like what's an Echo Knight supposed to do against cloud kill?

[glad arch]

I know all about it

2014 hexadin for the win

[stray lantern]

Which are far more common for physical attacks than magical attacks

[glad arch]

Coffeelock is too gimicky for my taste if thats what you mean though

[tacit halo]

@severe rampart #tales-from-the-table message

I just realized i didnt even mention more stuff thats going on mostly because two of them seemed irrelevant but in the grand scheme of things they definitely are

[rough basalt]

If you're in 2014 and your DM hasn't given you a magic weapon by level 10 then thats another dm issue

[severe rampart]

Get their wizard to counterspell because they shouldn't be alone fighting something that can cast that? The entire party fills each other's gaps

[glad arch]

Very few stuff resists magical bps

[stray lantern]

And AC's are always far far higher than DC's, and most casters have ways around DC's which can target anything from Con to Cha.

[glad arch]

Anyways can we not do martial vs caster debate 1026.0

[rough basalt]

No they aren't lol.
At a level AC becomes a suggestion and monsters start basically autosaving some saves.

[severe rampart]

awwh /j

[stray lantern]

Oh great a flametongue greatsword, too bad the Wizard's got Conjur Minor Elementals

[rough basalt]

What is CME gonna do

Cause if it's 5.5 they're well within ass beating range

[tacit halo]

Hah my dm lets us have too many

[stray lantern]

Ew 5.5e

[severe rampart]

... The same... bad DM?

[severe rampart]

Wait wait wait... so you're complaining about an issue in 2014... And not considering 2024?

[viral kraken]

idk, less damage than a martial with a flame tongue sword, since they are more likely to hit and more likely to hit multiple times a round

[feral fulcrum]

Counterspell it. :V

Oh, sorry, misread that as Eldritch Knight

brain fart there.

[stray lantern]

5.5e disappointed me greatly with the changes it brought, not enough extra stuff for martials and rangers still can't even get a non concentration mark

[umbral girder]

Played one of the Adventures in Faerun one shots the other day, 2024 really made fights so much tougher.

[tacit halo]

Yes because you can simply buy the enchants/gems for gold

[umbral girder]

Was a lot of fun tho.

[rough basalt]

Cause concentrationless HM was tested and ended up being very strong.

[umbral girder]

Too strong

[severe rampart]

Too strong

[shy bloom]

Hey

[feral fulcrum]

There's an Echo in here

[rough basalt]

1d6 free force damage permanently per day on all attacks

Doesn't sound like much but when you consider MCing

[stray lantern]

8 Chwinga

[severe rampart]

Oh god... I still remember Bugbear Gloomstalker soloing the final boss of my first one-shot...

[rough basalt]

And use with other Conc spells like Haste or Swift Quiver for more attacks

[viral kraken]

2014 then?

[feral fulcrum]

Something something "DM chooses the summons actually"

[rough basalt]

Even in 2014 it wasn't really a martial caster divide as much as a class/subclass divide in general

[stray lantern]

Yeah, it's the only ones I run and play in

[rough basalt]

No martial was better overall than King Fighter and no Arcane caster was better overall than King Wizard.

[severe rampart]

Also again, like Sora said, by the 5th encounter that wizard is gonna run out of juice and the martial would still be able to swing their blade

[stray lantern]

Hexblade cheese, long range assassin and Smiteadin

[rough basalt]

Smiteadin that doesn't do anything outside of 1 to 2 encounters

[feral fulcrum]

Smiteadin explodes for two turns, then dies wheezing

[rough basalt]

Long range which doesn't matter if you're not out in open fields.

[eager marsh]

a lot of tables have 1-2 encounter days unfortunately

[stray lantern]

And on a short rest you can regain up to 3 1st and 1 2nd level spell slots

[rough basalt]

Yeah which is what I stated originally.
The "martial caster divide" is caused by DMs

[umbral girder]

Yeah when you are in fact in the dungeon part of dungeon and dragons

[paper portal]

There very much is a martial caster divide it's just felt much more at some tables than others

[rough basalt]

Which is not really much of anyrhing.

[umbral girder]

A sad amount

[rough basalt]

The effect of the "martial caster divide" is largely correlated to the skill of people at the table, the DM notably.

[paper portal]

At optimized tables casters are definitively better and while the vast majority of tables aren't optimized I think it's an important thing to consider when talking about the strength of classes

[rough basalt]

1% tables aren't really an important thing to consider

[severe rampart]

From my (not so much) experience from the game I run, the martials are actually doing better than the casters at times, usually when it's the third or fourth encounter

[paper portal]

Optimization is very much relevant to strength though

Every class is equally good if you play them as badly as possible

[rough basalt]

1%er Optimization is about doing anything physically possible to inch out the most amount of power which isn't what DnD 5.x is designed around.

[paper portal]

That isn't true at all lol

[severe rampart]

One day I just wanna play a character that has horrible stats and see how far I can go in a game

[stray lantern]

It doesn't really take that much to notice that the biggest reason for the divide is the fact martials are heavily restricted with what they can do and full blown casters are just, stupidly easy to abuse just with the large toolkit they have.

[viral kraken]

idk if the rules were tighter i would worry more about optimization. as it is, 5e is not written in a way that really supports optimization (at least not to extremes) without breaking the game, and requires people acting in good faith together to make the game work

[paper portal]

Most of that is done as pure hypotheticals and optimizers largely prefer slightly more loose standards

[rough basalt]

Casters do not get to abuse their toolkit as much as you think unless the DM sucks tbh

Like a DM I had that let casters just do whatever they want for "rule of cool"

Like that ain't a system issue, that's the dms fault his game went down the crapper

[paper portal]

Or maybe it's not a matter of "DM skill issue" so much as various factors at the table such as encounters per day, optimization level, general playstyle, encounter variety and tons of other stuff

[paper portal]

Okay yeah that one is their fault lol

[umbral girder]

Yeah the game has systems for this but the issue comes with the DM using them

[rough basalt]

Yeah you're supposed to build a competent PC and a dm is supposed to run proper encounters

The system doesn't expect PCs to dump their main casting stat or attack stats.

[crimson gulch]

Agreed, its dm skill issue

[severe rampart]

Actually have that right now, a character with an ability score total of 65 for a friend's oneshot

[paper portal]

The strange phenomenon I've seen is that high encounter days benefit martials more at low op tables and casters more at high op tables

[stray lantern]

No I say this with the experience of telling each DM I played with to please be as much of a cruel bastard as possible against me and it just never works, within 5 encounters I can easily outpace most martials just through the versatility of being a bloody Wizard, after that it gets a bit iffy but in and out of encounters I can do far far too much compared to martials

[viral kraken]

spells really are king outside combat

[stray lantern]

Like the "weakness" of the wizard being squishy is all but nullified through decent positioning, and counter spelling also just doesn't work because just, stay outta range

[paper portal]

Inside combat too if you know how to use them

[paper portal]

Also armor dips put certain casters (wizard and sorc) well ahead of any martial in terms of tankiness

[stray lantern]

Just look at a spell like Rime's Binding Ice

[tacit halo]

@severe rampart im gonna post the other things in #tales-from-the-table but ill continue discussing here

Or should i just post here

[stray lantern]

If they fail a DC, they need an ACTION to get movemenet speed again

[rough basalt]

Ah well that doesn't generally work at my tables then. I don't have all fights happen out in wide open air in "adventure days"

[severe rampart]

If it's a long one, tales from the table

[viral kraken]

i guess my point is that martials can do a lot in combat too, but spells can unquestionably do things outside combat martials can't

[stray lantern]

Then we get into the issue of beam spells and how they just break compact or crowded areas, cones, aoes, etc.

[paper portal]

I can claim that not having a martial caster divide is a player skill issue tbh but I'm not going to cus that's a stupid thing to say that stops making sense the moment you actually play a game because it's much more nuanced than that

[rough basalt]

Then they don't do much and I go in with my rogue and do 70 damage.

[stray lantern]

At level 3 I can cast a spell that deals 3d8 cold in a 30ft cone, and if they bork the save dc they get their movement reduced to 0 and need an action to break out

[paper portal]

In a void casters are absolutely stronger the neat thing is that the game isn't a void and things don't work like that which is why the martial caster divide eventually just comes down to a table dependent thing

[stray lantern]

I hit 3 people with this, which is not unreasonable, I deal an average of 41 damage spread across 3 targets

[rough basalt]

Yep, the more the DM makes the game a "Void" the better casters become

[stray lantern]

Yeah but for that divide to happen it's genuinely too easy the moment you start running encounters with more than 3 creatures, I mean hells something like Hold Person running for 1 whole round or more than 1 attack is already huge value because it's gonna let you autohit the creature and autocrit it

[lapis talon]

bro I don't understand control weather

[rough basalt]

You control weather

[lapis talon]

everyone's like "you can make a blizzard" but can't you only shift the current weather up or down one?

like if its a clear day you can add clouds i guess for 10 minutes

[tacit halo]

K

[rough basalt]

Hold person relies on the enemy being Humanoid tho

[paper portal]

Yeah I absolutely agree with you tbh I just think people simplfying the martial caster divide down to being a DM skill issue or specific to short encounter days is nonsense because it's affected by tons of things

[stray lantern]

Unless you're in Fantasy Norway

[fossil hollow]

you can shift it more than one stage if you have it going for long enough

[rough basalt]

Well its 98% dm skill issue

[paper portal]

Not what I'm saying at all no

[lapis talon]

ohhhh you can have it for 8 hours. i misread the casting time as the duration

[rough basalt]

Player skill issue has a part to play but theres a line between player skill issue and players being idiots

[viral kraken]

control weather lasts 8 hours, and each stage takes 1d4x10 mins to take effect, and then can be changed another stage

[lapis talon]

bet bet

[stray lantern]

Which is not gonna be an issue in most circumstances unless the DM specifically plots around you having hold person, at which point you can literally say "I broke the game because I made the DM play completely around me having 1 spell"

[umbral girder]

Actually thinking about it how many fights have you guys actually have in my campaigns that we in open air?

Like all of them were indoors right Sora?

[paper portal]

Yeah but I could absolutely make a case for it being entirely player skill issue cus you're just not playing your casters well enough it's just a nonsense point to make

[rough basalt]

A lot of dms don't really run humanoid enemies often enough for Humanoid spells to be that powerful

[tacit halo]

@severe rampart posted

[rough basalt]

And those that do don't make dangerous encounters enough with them if one casting of hold person always wins