dnd-discussion

[minor cargo]

Bladesinger was my first gut instinct. I was trying to offer some additional options. ✌️

[vale kettle]

Yeah ik than but wotc just made that option so obsolete because they made bladesinger

Imo bladesinger should have been deleted

Or they should have made eldritch knight better

[vast saddle]

I think I'll just watch WWE Superstars play D&D 5e today

https://youtu.be/Fbjw9h0lK3k?si=JSxc6NpVZZZNRKZM

I had no idea that Xavier Woods is a D&D fan

[lethal bobcat]

If you go 13/13/12/13/11/13, with Sage (I assume it's the most popular?), you're setup to get 13 in everything and multiclass into every class

Including any future class from a third party which uses CON as prerequisite

[flint ledge]

Mediocre at everything

[vale kettle]

Not very good imo

[vast saddle]

Idk, I'm not a big fan of having big STR as spellcaster

[lethal bobcat]

The REAL Jack of All Trades

[mighty wharf]

Ok so if I were to have "Thou shall not speak in absolutes" and "Thou shall be equal" for a puzzle's description that involves filling water basins, what would you interpret that to mean?

[past blaze]

impure water, in equal volumes

[lethal bobcat]

5:5 with some left in the bucket/jug

[onyx haven]

A very Abserd character idea.

[severe rampart]

John Dungeon

[glass granite]

Roughly equal basins of water, but not EXACTLY equal

[severe rampart]

Don John N. Duragonz

[lethal bobcat]

I'm keeping that one, thanks

[vale kettle]

Wouldn’t that be just a human fighter

[severe rampart]

Yeah, that's also what I named my Human Farmer Paladin

[past blaze]

it's him
john dungeon

[flint ledge]

What's with all the human fighter hate

[vale kettle]

Peak

[mighty wharf]

Oh my lord, "Thou shall not speak in absolutes"

[severe rampart]

I hope my paladin dies

[vale kettle]

No hate, just referencing the most common pick

[flint ledge]

So you can describe the full name on the gravestone?

[past blaze]

and "thou sall be equal"
and it's referring to filling water basins
if the equal is for the puzzle why would absolutes not be for the puzzle

[vale kettle]

Any character pick can be interesting regardless of class/race pick

[mighty wharf]

It is for the puzzle...

[severe rampart]

Not really, but that's a good addition, I just want to have my first PC death

[past blaze]

yeah so it shall be equal and shall not be absolute

[glass granite]

What, is the answer to fill each basin equally without saying anything?

[vale kettle]

If your make your character be just the class/race as their identity then its gonna be a boring character

[odd valley]

is speaking in absolutes intended to be a fail condition of sorts

[mighty wharf]

Yes

[past blaze]

People don't speak water out of their mouths enough to fill basins with

[severe rampart]

They don't?

[limber trail]

Maybe you don't.

[mighty wharf]

Basically, they're supposed to fill the basins equally without telling eachother in absolute measurements

[minor cargo]

If there was a statue cupping its ear as if it were listening, this would make more sense if I was a player.

Edit: you could also have a statue leaning in as if to look at the basins. Or holding the basins up, as if they could fill the weight.

[odd valley]

yeah i think one of your players might make an ootc joke about you pretending to be a jedi

[limber trail]

What happens if they do speak in absolute measurements?

[glass granite]

Isn’t the basin automatically like that though? Neither are filled, but both are equally

[odd valley]

though i also don’t know your table either

[severe rampart]

I am being boiled alive in my room, my word, I should use this to describe the feeling of my party being trapped and imprisoned

[mighty wharf]

The puzzle basically resets

[glass granite]

Also, why can’t one person just do it? Are the basins far apart?

[mighty wharf]

Yes

[glass granite]

I can see someone casting elementalism and just pouting water into each. Except people don’t usually take elementalism

[limber trail]

"Hey let's each fill our basin with one of these buckets" "Got it" *puzzle resets, and we go from there*

[mighty wharf]

Yeah

[odd valley]

yeah make the fail condition more of a fail condition

[mighty wharf]

That's part of the intent of the puzzle, trial and error

[severe rampart]

Because elementalism is trash, it's carried by its name

Presti and Thematurgy clears

[limber trail]

Well that's not really trial and error. They communicate, the puzzle resets with no real consequence, and then they just each fill the basin and they're fine

because speaking resets it back to a basic level and then they've already communicated the plan, which they then execute with no real issues

[odd valley]

yeah you kinda need a deadlier consequence, otherwise it’s literally just gonna be a speed bump in the middle of a dungeon

[limber trail]

A real consequence would be, speaking randomly adds some amount of water to one basin

(and deals some damage)

Differently shaped basins could be fun too. Make measuring hard

[mighty wharf]

Ok so, the puzzle has a lot more mechanics that I haven't explained because fully running the puzzle in a dnd discussion general chat wasn't my intention, I just wanted feedback on if the description was clear or not

[minor cargo]

Another consequence would be to spawn a creature to fight.

I like this because the party now has to fight without speaking absolutes - otherwise the fight gets harder.

[limber trail]

oooh that's fun. Maybe a water elemental!

[odd valley]

out of the basin

[lethal bobcat]

Having a cube of embers instead of one small non-harmful flame and having it not emit dim light for 5ft is weird, how do you even imagine it

[mighty wharf]

Because when I actually ran it with a testing group (not my playgroup) one criticism is that the puzzle wasn't very clear and some of the mechanics had to be explained out of game.

[lethal bobcat]

Druidcraft seems even worse tho for people. They try opening doors anyway often enough

[flint ledge]

Oh my god that reminds me of last time I did something like this to my parties they were supposed to tell the original statues out of a group of slightly different ones. Each mistake they made meant 1 lesser water elemental to fight at the end (slight homebrew monsters) both groups almost got TPKed

[mighty wharf]

That was basically the only issue. Most of their "what if's" were addressed. And in all honesty, I welcome unintended, but clever solutions. That would be pretty heroic imo.

[lethal bobcat]

If I saw it in a module and I had the ability to ignore it, I'd allow anything that sounds like a solution

[pure fossil]

Where does the idea that assassins auto crit a surprised target come from because I can't find it in my copy of the player's handbook or on D&D Beyond?

[humble cairn]

Thats the 2014 version of Assassin.

[pure fossil]

Ohhh

[past blaze]

And they genuinely did just turn a hit on a surprised target, into a crit

[pure fossil]

We still do 5E so that's chill

[humble cairn]

So you want to be looking at the 2014 version of the PHB on Beyond then, or else you'll get confused.

[pure fossil]

Yeah, thanks

[hot smelt]

Anyone looking for a noobie?

[vale kettle]

Wdym?

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[hot smelt]

I'm a beginner looking to play takes cup of water

[lyric viper]

Check out #find-a-game and the LFG channels! All LFG chatter is regulated to there.

[ivory holly]

is there just no teen who plays dnd

sigh

[stuck shuttle]

There are plenty of minor-friendly games, they're just generally rarer.

[paper portal]

Haha I get to be a teenager and an adult >:3c

[ivory holly]

its just that most are 18+ servers

[ivory holly]

what?

[stuck shuttle]

I'd suggest keeping on the search and casting a wide net, this server isn't the only place to find games.

[ivory holly]

theres barely anyone who is a teen in this server

[stuck shuttle]

You can also check to see if your school, local library, or local game store runs any games fit for those under 18

[ivory holly]

huh?

how is that gonna help me find a group around my age

[paper portal]

The server recommends against people saying their age but to me it seems like there's a lot of teenagers here idk

That's just how discord is in general tbh

[ivory holly]

true

ill just do another looking for dm next week

[flint ledge]

Eh no there's plenty, most simply do not mention it

[ivory holly]

i see

ive never gotten far in dnd

[stuck shuttle]

Schools & libraries may have D&D clubs or host D&D games. Local game stores also frequently host games

[ivory holly]

mine doesnt

[limber trail]

Teens also do play DnD but it's generally the thing where a lot of teens will make a game themselves amongst their friends or school groups, they rarely look online.

[ivory holly]

well i do

[stuck shuttle]

Yeah that's also a big factor

[limber trail]

I did say rarely, not never

[ivory holly]

i know

[stuck shuttle]

How long have you been searching for a game?

[limber trail]

There's also the reality of it which is that a lot of online groups tend to be a little less older and not quite as willing to play with younger folks

[flint ledge]

If you're in a community and have a friend group there you can also just introduce them to dnd. Worked like a charm for me

[limber trail]

Not that many 25 years olds want a 17 year old in their group

[ivory holly]

a week until i started looking online

[ivory holly]

ill try

[stuck shuttle]

That's not an extreme length of time, even for those of us over 18

[paper portal]

Yeah finding a group just tends to take a while

[ivory holly]

its not possible for me, im busy, have a crappy timezone, and can only be on on weekends

its difficult

[stuck shuttle]

I'd suggest looking at other sources for games then online, like other TTRPG discords, forums, and communities (e.g. Reddit)

I wouldn't worry too much about timezone as long as the equivalent time matches

[paper portal]

Tell me about it being aussie sucks for that sometimes

[limber trail]

I'm gonna be honest it does take a bit of time to find a game that's a good fit. A fact of the matter is that when DMs make posts looking for players, they get tons of applicants. I probably recieved 50+ in the process of recruiting for my campaign, which was already at a niche timezone and as an (at the time) new DM. They can't take anyone, sometimes it takes a few tries

[ivory holly]

oh im indo

[limber trail]

There's like four aussie games posted ever lmao it's so hard

[ivory holly]

noone plays dnd in indonesia

[past blaze]

Yeah, that ain't true
there's you

I also have an indonesian friend in my D&D group

[ivory holly]

i see

[flint ledge]

I think it's a hyperbole

[past blaze]

It's just that on a global scale, by sheer population, the overlap between online D&D player and indonesian will be proportionally small

[ivory holly]

but theyre all 18+

like i can barely find anyone

[past blaze]

well D&D can often encroach on mature topics, even incidentally, and often times people will want to be assured they aren't subjecting minors to inappropriate content

[limber trail]

You can look for games in similar but not identical timezones. A lot of games in asian timezones would probably be fine for indonesia if my geography is alright (I've played with folks in similar timezones before who said it wasn't too bad)

[flint ledge]

Instead of making looking for DM posts you can also scroll through looking for players

[limber trail]

Yeah I'm sure a 16 or 17 year old would be practically fine in my games but I just prefer not even needing to worry about it when I throw dark stuff into the setting, plus it does help ensure a slightly higher base level of maturity and respect

[past blaze]

Yeah, it can stop a drama from even happening
if something of a mature nature ends up happening, then it isn't a problem if there isn't anyone who it'd be inappropriate to show it to.
By preventing any minors from partaking, it means mature content can be addressed and utilized without having anything problematic happen, let alone ethically or legally forbidden.

For example, technically speaking, even just descriptions of gore or death, and portraying those to minors, could be of concern to some people. After all, even certain films, shows, comics, get more restrictive ratings for such things.

[limber trail]

Oh 100% past like 20 age isn't a huge factor in maturity. I just use 18 as a minimum because below that is where maturity does start to scale more with age.

[ivory holly]

i dont know

[limber trail]

(I also do generally try to recruit all players of a similar age in general, it helps everyone understand each other quicker and form friendships outside of game)

[ivory holly]

okay

barely any teen knows dnd though

[limber trail]

I've been at plenty of games where the ages range from like, 20 to 40. The game itself ran fine but there definitely wasn't as many lasting friendships between players and there wasn't as much of a cohesive party feel

[ivory holly]

they either heard of it but never play or never heard of it

i only did like two with my friends and they all didnt last long

[limber trail]

Oh I don't think there's issues with it at all

[paper portal]

Yeah scheduling issues are just a part of D&D unfortunately 😭 it's not just you

[ivory holly]

sadly

[limber trail]

I just notice that with groups which are a bit more similar demographically (typically age) you've got closer bonds forming. A game I played with that spread did run for a full like 30 sessions and it was a good time, but it was very much like, show up once a week and play for a few hours and head out. Maybe some light chat or an occasional meme. I recruited mostly similar players for my own game and they're a lot closer. I chat pretty frequently with everyone and we usually will just be in call a few times a week outside of session time - genuine friendships.

And both are great, not everyone wants that second experience which is fine and fair

And I've had fun games with both kinds of groups and unfun games with both kinds of groups

[polar forge]

So true
I'm currently dming a campaign and playing in 2 other and I still have to play one shots regularly because someone cancels

[flint ledge]

My group literally cancels so frequently we think about having a secondary mini campaign

[polar forge]

Also hi everyone I'm new to this server or any discord server for that matter

[flint ledge]

With the people who didn't cancel

[polar forge]

That's what my dm did

We are playing 1 percy Jackson inspire campaign but he started lost mines of phandelvar with another group including me because of scheduling conflicts

Now that also got scheduling issues

So we played a one shot last week

I thought about joining a game on startplaying.games but even for a free game it asked credit card info so i bailed

[limber trail]

I honestly find the best way to schedule games is not to commit to one single day weekly. I've started scheduling campaign sessions an entire month at a time. Everyone picks out the days they can't do, I pick 4-5 that work, and we play on those days. Sometimes that means we miss a week or play twice in a week, but it all works out

[hollow estuary]

ye

[polar forge]

We weekly ask players when they are free

[steady sentinel]

You know I thought about a interesting party combo.

Oathbreaker and nercomancy tag team

[polar forge]

Throw in an assassin rogue too

[reef tundra]

The edgelord party. Sign me up

[steady sentinel]

Lmao more like: Let's buff the wizard undead summons!

[reef tundra]

Now I’m trying to think of what other edgelord subclasses to throw in there

[reef tundra]

Oh yeah, I forgot oathbreakers did that

Well now I wanna try that

[coral olive]

How does wild magic sorcerer work

[steady sentinel]

Collage of spirits bard can work

Phantom rouge

The UA horror stuff probably

Spore druid

Gloom stalker

[severe rampart]

Any Rogue

[glass granite]

If you fulfil a condition, you roll on a d100 table and get an effect

[coral olive]

gambler style

[glass granite]

Most certainly

[steady sentinel]

Pretty much

[coral olive]

I like it

[glass granite]

I do too

[coral olive]

Im gonna read it

[glass granite]

Hi gonna read it, I’m Nugget

[coral olive]

Nice to meet you

[steady sentinel]

Ehh trickster and thief I wouldn't exactly call "edgy"

[coral olive]

anyways

[severe rampart]

Could definitely be

[steady sentinel]

Keyword Could lol

[coral olive]

The wild magic table is 50/50 on good and bad surges

aw man it seems underwhelming

[glass granite]

It’s fun as hell I assure you

[coral olive]

Thats assured

It seems cool

[flint ledge]

Funny that none of the warlocks have been namedropped as edgy

[coral olive]

i havent read the lucky feat, can you reroll this wild magic table ?

[flint ledge]

Sometimes I get this desire to find or make a bigger wild magic table

[flint ledge]

I belive it's for d20 rolls only

[glass granite]

Nope

[coral olive]

Yeah, is there maybe something else that could boost my luck without it being the features

Level 14 is a reroll everytime

[glass granite]

Maybe heroic inspiration

[coral olive]

that would pair well with human then eh

you gain 1 every day no ?

[glass granite]

I don’t remember

[reef tundra]

Correct

Whenever a human (5.5e) finishes a long rest, they gain heroic inspiration

[coral olive]

I wanna find something that can let me reroll my wild magic table

[reef tundra]

I honestly quite like it. Since human is the most common species for new players, it’s a good tutorial for heroic inspiration almost

[reef tundra]

At about level 6 I believe the subclass gives you an ability that does that

[coral olive]

only 14

[reef tundra]

Ah, whoops

[coral olive]

id be fine with 6

but man 14 is a long way

Im trying to figure out a way to reroll it in 5e

in 5.5 e im pretty sure heroic inspiration worked for all

[reef tundra]

Idk I like the gambling

[coral olive]

same, but why dont make it easier

[reef tundra]

It being a level 14 ability is just a safety net to reward strong sorcerers

[coral olive]

yeah, but there maybe is something that allows me to reroll it

im trying to figure something out, because I imagine a situation where I get a bad roll and just reroll it again for something better

keeping the gambling feel while still getting good rolls most of the time

If thats even possible in 5e

[errant crag]

I mean its kinda the whole draw of playing WM Sorcerer in 2014

The risk of it going horribly wrong

[coral olive]

yea, I get it, trying to find a loophole still

[errant crag]

Its a d100 right?

[coral olive]

yea

[errant crag]

Then I'm pretty sure you can't

[coral olive]

aw dang. Not even with any specific race ?

[errant crag]

Most things that let you reroll specify the type of roll that you can reroll

[coral olive]

but there might be something that allows it

[severe rampart]

I finally fixed my wifi router! I can finally prep for my next session!

I wasn't able to prep for 5 days.

[coral olive]

im gonna try to command f the book

[limber trail]

in the 2024 rules heroic inspiration applies to any dice, not just d20s

[severe rampart]

You can technically reroll your hp (if you decide to roll your hp like a crazy person)

[coral olive]

yeah, but we were talking about in 5e how to reroll a d100

i really wanna reroll my magic surge table

[errant crag]

Just play a different subclass

[coral olive]

but I like the rolling taste to it

[reef tundra]

If you don’t like the thrill of gambling, don’t gamble 😎

[coral olive]

I mean, the point of trying to get more rolls on the wild surge magic table is to gamble more and attempt at higher odds

no gambler leaves empty handed

[reef tundra]

Hmm, you’re right, maybe gambling isn’t the right term for this

Russian roulette

If you don’t wanna take the bullet, don’t play

[coral olive]

fair

atleast I tried

[steel bobcat]

So I'm trying to find this piece of official art and it's driving me crazy. I remember the bladesinger official art at some point was a drow lady holding a magic dagger and I can't for the life of me can't find it.

[remote wadi]

I checked, and it says that enemies made of inorganic material have disadvantage on the save

So stone golems should fall under that category

[past blaze]

and under the 2024 rules, shatter is just
"A Construct has Disadvantage on the save" so if it is construct type, they have disadvantage period

[glad arch]

We love rolling hp, took 4 levels average then rolled a 10 and 9 on my d10's

[severe rampart]

Average Paladin smh

[glad arch]

Now watch me roll a 1 and undo all the 'extra' hp i got

[severe rampart]

it feels so wrong to play with 8 dex

Paladins are strange

[reef tundra]

And then aura of protection comes along and stops them from having even a bad dex save bonus 😭

[severe rampart]

I may not even die as a Paladin? what a scam!

[reef tundra]

Paladins eternally 💪

[severe rampart]

Hm... I wonder what feat I should get when I get to level 4

[reef tundra]

As a paladin?

[severe rampart]

I got Tough and MI:Cleric (Flavor)

[severe rampart]

yup

[glass granite]

What’s your weapon of choice?

[reef tundra]

Hmmm, depends on what you’re going for

[severe rampart]

Longsword, hopefully gonna find a Maul

Well... The Longsword is flavored as a Shovel

[glass granite]

I approve

[reef tundra]

My last dexadin I played, I went for resilient to get my dex to 20, and then my dex save bonus was just… madness

[severe rampart]

I am unfortunately playing a Strength based Paladin

[glass granite]

In any case, if you can get a Maul soon I’d say GWM or crusher

[glacial lagoon]

What level?

[severe rampart]

Already have Great Weapon Master

[reef tundra]

Crusher feat <3

I love that feat

[feral fulcrum]

Crusher = "Hey lets go golfing with badguys!" on a Paladin

[reef tundra]

I have an open hand Monk I’m gonna play soon with crusher and tavern brawler, and I fully expect to be launching people everywhere

[severe rampart]

oh wait I have Great Weapon Fighting not Great Weapon MASTER

Oh my god what is this

[glass granite]

I once made a barbarian fully dedicated to yeeting people

[severe rampart]

I really want both feats...

[glacial lagoon]

As a paladin dex based,how to play that don't fully rely on divine smite?

[reef tundra]

Hell yes

[severe rampart]

Rapier, Shield, and pray

[reef tundra]

I’m a lock-down-and-chase build with my dexadin.

[glacial lagoon]

Vow of enmity, Hunter's Mark,then smite

[glass granite]

Crusher, pushing attack maneuvre, brutal strike, charger, a greatclub, and another giant esque feat I’m forgetting
YEET

It was a high level one shot

This is the optimisation I support

[reef tundra]

Pretty much. Although I don’t smite as much, I use a lot of debuff spells when I’m not concentrating on hunter’s mark

[severe rampart]

Thinking of a custom item to reward my Battlemaster if they manage to beat my Battlemaster Miniboss

[reef tundra]

Perfection

[glacial lagoon]

I do dex based with a dual wristblade before

[severe rampart]

Perhaps "The Art of War by Zun Tsu", a book that can let them swap out a battlemaster maneuver per long rest? but that might be too bland

[pliant sapphire]

Baseball player

[glacial lagoon]

Big bad bonk

[glass granite]

I played him in a pirate one shot, I was sending people off ships

[past blaze]

my first idea is something to do with "combos" where using multiple different things in a sequence leads to a big combo finisher thing

[severe rampart]

I hope I can finally have a character of mine die, this campaign says it's really dangerous and gritty (that's why I'm playing a Paladin)

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah! I did have custom upgrades to some Maneuvers as well

made them as part of the mini boss

[past blaze]

I'd also throw in a book of one of the three physical abilities, for a "training regiment"

[severe rampart]

I'm not giving the martials everything 😭

His stats are already insane

20 strength, 14 dex, 19 con, 12 int, 17 wisdom, 13 charisma

[past blaze]

In my campaign I'd given all the martials the Martial Adept feat but the d6 recharges at the start of their turn (instead of short rest)

genuinely speaking, even just giving martials that 1d6 and 2 maneuvers, reliable each of their turns, helped immensely

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah what about "After finishing a long or a short rest, you can use a Battlemaster Maneuver for free"

[past blaze]

that's just +1 die

[severe rampart]

any battlemaster maneuver, even the ones they don't prepare

[past blaze]

ah, interesting
What I did was essentially the Relentless ability, but a d6, basekit
(what I do would also stack on top of battle master, so more maneuvers, and up to 2 free dice per their turn at that level 15+)

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah that's why, they're level 4

[glacial lagoon]

Can i talk about siege weapons here?

[past blaze]

because genuinely IMO the thing that makes martials and battlemaster feel kinda bland is that, even the battlemaster, just runs out of steam after like 4 or 5 uses of their subclass, and it felt so alien that they only got "you can actually consistently use your subclass every one of your turns" is locked up at level 15

[severe rampart]

What is Relentless?

I've yet to play an Orc

[past blaze]

battlemaster level 15
once on their turn they can use a d8 for free instead of their limited use die from their pool

Until then they can literally just

run out of being able to do any maneuvers

Whereas a champion doesn't get "after scoring 3 critical hits your crit range is no longer 19-20" or anything, they don't run out of subclass identity

[severe rampart]

Hm, that might be a bit too good for level 4

maybe, "instead of expending a superiority die, you can choose to expend a hit die"

truly trying to give it their all

[past blaze]

For reference I started the campaign at level 3 with Martial Adept recharging (it's a d6 from the feat, but the die returns at the start of their turn, not on a short rest)
they're now at level 15 and about to be level 16
it's given each of the martials something extra to make some more identity with. The rogue took some skill ones, for example

[reef tundra]

it comes down to parties not short resting enough

[dark basin]

Weakest Caster Subclass: 1d6+Level temp hp to someone at the end of their turn for 1 minute.
Strongest Martial Subclass: +1d4 to melee weapon attacks when it is a Tuesday afternoon.

[severe rampart]

I'm quite generous with my short rests, as my party consists of a Warlock, Monk, Battlemaster, Cleric, and Druid

[past blaze]

within a singular fight, running out of subclass, or an entire feat running out in a single use of maybe 1d6 damage, feels far too little

which is why my preference to say "Hey martials have 2 maneuvers and a start-of-turn recharging d6 for them" helps both of those
if someone picks battle master they get lots of maneuvers and they start with a consistency, they can always do something without having to worry so hard about optimal spending or running out super fast, even if they spend all their big dice to do multiple things they still have the freebie each round to try something

[glad arch]

Twilight cleric my beloved

[past blaze]

something like this though is also genuinely an intriguing idea. IMO Hit Dice are a very fascinating resource to use beyond exclusively short rest healing

[severe rampart]

oh yeah, let them expend hit die, next time they're in a dungeon they'll think twice

Hm, after taking away the party's magic items and weapons I've noticed a bit of imbalance, what uncommon magic item could I give to my Druid player? (spoilers for more character details) ||They are essentially fungi puppettering a dead corpse around||

[past blaze]

on one hand, a lot more d10s
on the other, so tuckered out they heal less

[severe rampart]

I've been throwing a lot more saving throws to my players ever since their minimum AC was 16

[undone rain]

Man i loved my first paladin. Sucks the campaigns over

[cobalt owl]

Moon sickle. Basic but always useful

[dark basin]

What subclass?

[severe rampart]

Noted! Thanks Skelly

[undone rain]

Glory

But i loved his story the most. Man it was awesome

[cobalt owl]

I've yet to find a table for my paladin, not sure I ever will tbh

[dark basin]

Cleric has my soul, but Paladin has my heart.

[undone rain]

I love em both

[cobalt owl]

Looks at twilight cleric This, this is brilliant

Looks at tempest cleric But I like this.

[dark basin]

It's always great when you can do a character's story. Nothing better than character progression when it comes to RP.

[undone rain]

Exactly

[vagrant notch]

For any spells that doesn't mention the explicit value of the components i only need to have component pouch right? And then im free to cast it right?

[severe rampart]

Lol the magic item imbalance is real
Battlemaster - Cloak of Billowing, +1 Halberd
Sun Soul Monk - +1 Shortsword, Custom Magical Ring
Grave Cleric - Cloak of Protection
Hexblade Warlock - Scimitar of Vengeance
Druid - Nothing

[dark basin]

Looks at Life Domain This, this is brilliant

Looks at Grave Domain But I like this

[cobalt owl]

Well you need the component, but focus substitutes non-gold components

[dark basin]

I've had my fair share of great moments as a player. Gotta love playing support-orientated Cleric so I can give newer players great moments.

[undone rain]

looks at oath of devotion this is brilliant

points at oath of glory but i like this

[severe rampart]

Oath of The Ancients>

Human Farmer turned Paladin is amazing

[dark basin]

Ah man, Oath of Devotion is amazing. I was playing a drunkard Paladin until he became devoted to abstinence. Nothing will ever beat having a +13 to hit or so.

[severe rampart]

oh god I'm starting to like Paladins

[undone rain]

ONE OF US

[severe rampart]

I better build another Bard before this illness consumes me.

[undone rain]

Come on we know you want those smites

[severe rampart]

With what spell slots

[dark basin]

The ones you get by only doing Paladin 1/X Warlock(or sorcerer)

[severe rampart]

Paladin Warlock ooo

[undone rain]

I was gonna do one once but idk

[severe rampart]

I'm hoping that Don John N. Duragon will finally satiate my desire to lose a character

[undone rain]

You cant just throw em out like its free. You gotta save em for emergencies

[severe rampart]

When you nat 20!

[dark basin]

I'm playing one currently. Devotion 6, Divine Soul 5 right now. He'll be level 6 Divine Soul at the end of next session. 23 AC, Adamatine, Cloak of Displacement, Netherese Ring of Protection, Vicious Weapon.

[severe rampart]

I should get a Maul and flavor that as a shovel, just like how I flavor my longsword as a shovel

[undone rain]

Crit on smite yummy

[severe rampart]

my Javelins are pitchforks

[dark basin]

So, you play Shovel Knight but dislike Paladin?

[undone rain]

Flails are just those farming flails

[severe rampart]

It's not that I dislike Paladins

they're... okay

[dark basin]

That's fair. The Paladin's best abilities don't really depend on building further into it like it would a Wizard.

[severe rampart]

we'll see how my first session with John Duragon will go

[dark basin]

Wish you the best.

[severe rampart]

Wish me the worst.

[feral fulcrum]

Okay, I wish you a very Lemure existence.

[knotty vine]

smite

[cobalt owl]

I wish you a smite

[glass granite]

I wish you a crit

[cobalt owl]

I wish you a 33% chance to lose the ability to cast wish

[flint ledge]

I wish you some divine intervention

[severe rampart]

trying to get in the headspace of a Farmer Paladin who's never done nor known wrong in his life...

[humble cairn]

What's your inciting incident for adventuring?

Because "I am a farmer" is an incomplete backstory, why are you no longer a farmer and now an adventurer?

[buoyant beacon]

I wish all and every weapon you find gives you disadvantages

[dense nacelle]

Hey, I’ve got a quick question about a feat and its wording

[severe rampart]

Nothing, the reason they're going on the adventure is to support their family and earn a little extra cash, as with the family growing they can no longer support themselves with farming alone

[wicked mulch]

D&D Question of the Day (D&D Beyond: Playing the Game):

Which statement about obscurement is accurate?
A) Heavily obscured can block vision entirely.
B) Dim light is the same as bright light for Perception.
C) Special senses never matter.

[humble cairn]

Like .. gaming sessions canceled 30 minutes after the start time because one member couldn't be bothered to tell anyone they weren't coming which upsets the DM so much they rage quit the whole campaign?

[severe rampart]

... I'm gonna take a shot in the dark 🥁

uhh... is it letter A

[dense nacelle]

Okay so

[glass granite]

A)

[humble cairn]

Then what's going to happen to the farm?

[severe rampart]

While he's gone? the family will be taking care of it

[humble cairn]

A trick question that is rage bait for the #dnd-rules channel.

[dense nacelle]

The feat “defensive duelist” states specifically that “when you are hit with a melee attack [insert rest of the feat here]”, my issue is with the statement melee attack- I know that means no ranged attacks, but does it count melee spell attacks?

[severe rampart]

I'd rule that as yeah

[glass granite]

Those are melee attacks, yes

[dense nacelle]

Alright

So if someone tried to shocking grasp or chill touch, it would work

[humble cairn]

Ehh ... I'm not really buying it, taking away an able bodied farmer from the farm isn't a great way to make sure the farm sustains the family. Did you take Farmer for the stats and are trying to make it make sense?

[severe rampart]

no

I want him to be a farmer, Don John N. Duragon will go down in history

[glass granite]

If the farm is already quite successful I’m sure they can spare one person

[severe rampart]

Farmer is a good background, but I don't exactly pick backgrounds for "optimizing", I do em for flavor!

[dense nacelle]

Picking farmer as a background for farmer would be good for flavor

[severe rampart]

that's why I picked it

[humble cairn]

Adventuring is a deadly profession, highly risky. There generally needs to be something dramatic to make someone want to leave their steady job to risk their lives in a profession that might not make them anything.

[severe rampart]

I didn't even think it was a good background at the time, but damn, that is amazing

[humble cairn]

For me, trying to get into a character's headspace requires a motivation that makes sense to me.

[paper portal]

I don't optimize for flavour, I flavour for optimize >:3

[humble cairn]

Maaaybe ... someone came along and told Farmer john that adventuring was easy and profitable?

[severe rampart]

You are correct!, I didn't fully flesh out his backstory as it is quite a dangerous campaign and I do not want to get attached.

Perhaps a family member has fallen ill. He doesn't want to lose them, so in a reckless pursuit he attempts to become an adventurer to hire a cleric and heal their loved one.

[humble cairn]

Is there a possibility to collaborate with another player to have your characters know each other before game starts?

[humble cairn]

Is Farmer John kind of gullible?

[severe rampart]

unfortunately not

[severe rampart]

I'd say so lmao, I built him to know no wrong or evil, so yeah

also it's Don John

[humble cairn]

Ok let's workshop this. Farm falls on hard times, Farmer Don needs to find a way to make some cash, in comes some swindler telling him that he can make fast and easy cash as an adventurer. Swindler says, "You go off and make some cash, I can watch your farm and family for you."

[severe rampart]

Oh I hate that swindler already.

[atomic kayak]

The 2 basics of a PC:

• A reason to go adventuring
• A reason to work/stay with the party

[humble cairn]

Farmer Don tells this story to new party members and will not hear a word against Swindler, "He gave me his word and it would be dishonorable of me to doubt that."

[severe rampart]

Lmao "Yeah, he promised me that he had various snake oils in order to help my mother recover"

[humble cairn]

"It was so wonderful of him to take time to help my family!"

[severe rampart]

I love playing int dumps

He's just a little gullible

Ah man. I got attached. Welp, sucks to be me if he dies

[atomic kayak]

(Tbh I would more argue Wis dumps than Int dumps for gullible)

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah, Wisdom dumping as a Paladin great idea 😭

[humble cairn]

High Wisdom can still be gullible, just make it your Flaw.

[hard finch]

guys can I make dhampire or feathren character

or I can't

[severe rampart]

you'd have to own the book containing Dhampirs

[echo plaza]

Henlo all

[atomic kayak]

Yea. While stats can inform rp its not required

Shout out the new PHB for giving example personality traits for highs and lows of each stat. Don't have to have all (or even any of them), but they are usefully informative for people

[crimson gulch]

Woot, first game after My vacation is tonight!

[hard finch]

There is a aurora

[reef tundra]

Finally took a good look through my Adventures in Faerun book I got a few weeks back, and holy hell I love the villains in the book

The book has succeeded and now makes me want to run an adventure in Faerun

Fortunately my Heroes of Faerun copy should be arriving tomorrow!

I am very excited to run my Bane campaign soon

I believe my favourites so far are Karas Chembryl, Manshoon, and Queen Forfallen

[solar crow]

Today is the final D&D session of my campaign

[reef tundra]

Woo! Have fun!

[solar crow]

I'll try

It's the 3rd and final session of our boss fight and last week's session didn't go great for the party it was the roughest one all campaign

Half of us popped death ward, our wizard got killed and had to be revived they're good now, 3 of us had concentration spells that went down

[reef tundra]

Ooh, tense

[solar crow]

Yeah

We got a short rest at the end of last week's session the boss disappeared to give us a short rest

We're still screwed though

Druid, cleric, wizard/fighter multiclass, barbarian, paladin which is me

We're all level 20

Against an alien God

[reef tundra]

A challenging battle at level 20?! Impossible /j

[solar crow]

This is my first campaign 😭

[umbral girder]

Assuming 2024 rules.
A Wild Shape, a Channel Divinity, another Channel Divinity, some slots, Action surge, and a Second wind.

Also healing.

[reef tundra]

One hell of a first campaign

[umbral girder]

Nice short rest.

[reef tundra]

Whenever short rest is a question, the answer is yes

[solar crow]

Yeah🤣 my dm has been one of my best friends for 3 years

[solar crow]

Oh we did we DESPERATELY needed it

[umbral girder]

Isn’t too hard. My first two campaigns also went to level 20

[fierce tendon]

Does anyone know how to claim the Zombie Clot encounter? I preordered the Ravenloft Ultimate Bundle.

[umbral girder]

#ddb-support for that I believe

[solar crow]

Druid is lizardfolk, cleric is halfling, wizard is changling, barbarian is Goliath, I'm aasimar as the paladin

[severe rampart]

Changeling Supremacy!

[solar crow]

I've got an amazing party lol. I think, other than the dm, I'd only met one of the people in our party before session 0

[woven flint]

I had an Idea for a Changeling Paladin that took on his friends Oath after witnessing him doe horribly, couldn't bring himself to tell anyone as a part of mourning so he pretends to be him.
It's kinda messed up, but I can imagine it'd be pretty cool to deal with

[woven flint]

I've got many ongoing parties

But tonight's is
Orc Monk, Saytr Rogue, Human (??? We don't really know) Wizard, Tabaxi Barbarian and me, The Tortle Cleric

We're called . . .
The Waterdeep Menaces!
Not because we're bad people, but because first session we were all about some buisness

[severe rampart]

Few years go by, everyone thinks he's something he's not. He lives his friend's life and every day guilt is eating away at them.

[woven flint]

He'd definitely be a Glory Paladin, honoring his friends legacy

[severe rampart]

I imagine everyone but him thinks of him highly.

[woven flint]

The idea is that his friend died way too early in the start of his adventure

So, he pretends to be him so that his name won't die forever

Maybe not make it just a thing about friendship.
Maybe he was really in love with him but never got to tell him, so being him is the only way he can feel that he's close or still around again 🤔

[undone rain]

How the hell does everyone talk of paladins whenever i enter chat

[reef tundra]

Life finds a way

[woven flint]

I mean.. it's like.. one of the most popular classes in the game

[umbral girder]

I need to play a 5.5e Rogue

[undone rain]

Many say its popular others say its underrated so idk

[reef tundra]

I find that every opinion about dnd online contradicts each other

[undone rain]

I just use some magic to make everyone talk of it

[reef tundra]

Best to just ignore it and make your own

[woven flint]

Paladin is probably underrated in the eyes of people that play Paladin, tbh

[reef tundra]

I like them! Cunning strike adds some good options to do in combat

[reef tundra]

Because it’s just that peak 😎 /j

[crimson gulch]

comparing classes in a forum is never gonna be a super productive conversation

[sour cave]

Barbarian > every other class 💪 (I don’t know how to rp anything else)

[undone rain]

I like to think their quite popular. All things considered

Holy warriors are super common in fantasy/media overall so

[umbral girder]

Fun to remember that Artificer is the lowest played class in DnD (mainly because it’s the only one you have to pay for)

[reef tundra]

-# Amen /j

[undone rain]

Thats it? I thought it was because they just werent well known

Lol

[umbral girder]

Yeah the other 12 are free

[sour cave]

I actually just started playing an artificer in a game, it’s kinda fun

I love my robot dog

[reef tundra]

I think I’ve come around to artificers. My blood no longer boils upon hearing their name

[woven flint]

I mean...
You roleplay a character, not particularly the class.

[hot gate]

-# The world is healing

[woven flint]

Class identity plays into character identity but you're not just your class

[undone rain]

I dont really have an opinion on em. Dont see much of them so i cant say

[sour cave]

I only know giant himbo brute, every other character always slowly devolves into it

Even my rogue

[hot gate]

Now I wonder how to play a himbo wizard

[reef tundra]

I have accepted that my experience with them has just been with bad players and that there can be good artificer characters

[undone rain]

Gale from bg3

[reef tundra]

The best himbo

[undone rain]

Aye agreed

[hot gate]

I'm questioning the definition of himbo if Gale counts

[reef tundra]

I should play one to finally seal the deal

[undone rain]

Make peace with it lol

[sour cave]

I’m trying to play the artificer as the complete straight man in the party. Every other character has accents and are a little wacky so she exists as the counter to it

I’ll see how long that lasts

[woven flint]

My Tiefling War Cleric, Karkas
Was a bit brutish, but he was also nurturing... slightly, he healed and shielded his allies from danger
But he firmly believed that if you weren't ready to lay down your life in every combat, you shouldn't be an adventurer or a soldier

[undone rain]

I mean they are a half caster and you seem to be a paladin main so who knows

[reef tundra]

Don’t you dare compare my babies to them /lhj

[undone rain]

Lol, paladin still my fav

We love paladins

[woven flint]

He was probably more effective as a character that way lol

[sour cave]

I’ve heard mixed opinions on 2024 paladin

[reef tundra]

They’re both an upgrade and a downgrade, said as a paladin main

[undone rain]

Agreed

[reef tundra]

Downgrade in divine smite, but one hell of an upgrade with everything else

[woven flint]

Mixed opinions most likely come from not being able to smite on every attack anymore.
Which...
Shuddup!
Use your spell slots on more than smiting!

[umbral girder]

Or at least do new different smites

[sour cave]

Me picking up warlock multiclass simply to smite more

[umbral girder]

Divine Smite isn’t the only one after all

[reef tundra]

I found out people do just reduce their paladins to smiting and like… it stuns me

[umbral girder]

Notably Eldritch Smite will not use Paladin slots

It specifies the Pact Slots

[sour cave]

Speaking of warlocks. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a celestial pact

[feral fulcrum]

No, the Smite-spam will continue until I don't have any giant dinosaurs to explode.

[umbral girder]

I’ve seen nearly exclusively celestial warlocks

[severe rampart]

I took Magic Initiate so I can cast other spells without using my Smite Slots

[feral fulcrum]

Playing a Huge (Gestalt) Fairy Rune Knight/Crown Paladin was the most fun I've had in D&D Combat

Crusher + Push + Thunderous Smite = Bowling with Huge/Gargantuan Dino's in the dangerous jungles of the old world.

[woven flint]

Not my fault I didn't wanna be an edgy fiend warlock smh

[severe rampart]

Crusher stacks with Push?

[umbral girder]

5 out of 6 warlocks I’ve played with are Celestial warlocks

[umbral girder]

Yeah why wouldn’t it?

[woven flint]

All jokes aside, I HAVE played a fiend warlock.
He was an Aarakocra

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah, anything that's not from the same source, stacks

[severe rampart]

I see...

[woven flint]

I've also played the Sorcerer-King Warlock UA in a oneshot

[severe rampart]

Aarakocra are the bird people yes?

[feral fulcrum]

Yes

[woven flint]

Yeah

[severe rampart]

yeah they're what I thought Aasimar were

[woven flint]

Oh, I've also played Helianas (?) Parasite Warlock as well

So I've played 4 different types of Warlocks in my stretch as a D&D player.

Three were Melee Warlocks, my Fiend was pure caster

[reef tundra]

The day WOTC makes an ooze patron subclass the ability to communicate about goolocks is doomed

[woven flint]

My Sorcerer-King Warlock was an Aasimar fellow with a greatsword lol

[severe rampart]

I got only 3 warlocks, only 2 I've played as the campaign cancelled a few hours before session 1.

[woven flint]

I mean, to be fair..

A lot of the Slime deities are Great Old One-esque.

[severe rampart]

Fiend 2014 Warlock, Sorlock, then Hexblade 2014

[woven flint]

Ghaunadaur (My Goat) is so ancient that he's beyond even Ao's time and so alien in nature that even Lolth fears to try and command him

She knows she can't command him because he does whatever the hell he wants and everyone kinda keeps their head down around him lol

[lofty rock]

Warlock has to be one of my less favorite casters.

[woven flint]

Moander and Juiblex also exist..
And, again, they're primordial Ooze that have existed before even the realms, I believe

[severe rampart]

Why?

[reef tundra]

Yeah, pact magic doesn’t go well with everyone

[severe rampart]

Eldritch Blast baby

[woven flint]

I think It's fair to call Slime Deities Great Old Ones

[lofty rock]

Just preference

[reef tundra]

I personally love it but I can see people who prefer the regular full casters to not enjoy it

[severe rampart]

pair that with a party member who can cast Catnap

[reef tundra]

That’s valid

[lofty rock]

I prefer wiz for damage and cleric/bard for support

[pliant sapphire]

Or Prayer of healing

[severe rampart]

I prefer Bard for damage, bard for support, bard for control... bard :)

[kind jetty]

Hello

[woven flint]

Bard being the worst at damage (until like, level 10)

[severe rampart]

Valor :D

[kind jetty]

I'm new to this server but I do know how to play D'nD

[woven flint]

Ehhh..

[lofty rock]

Haha bards are cool mine has a hb electric guitar for their instrument with a cool mosh pit ability

[woven flint]

I like Valor Bard, but it's not as strong as other martial-esque caster subclasses

[reef tundra]

Welcome!

[reef tundra]

Sword bard for the win

[kind jetty]

Are you guys in mid of a campaign or what?

[lofty rock]

When playing their guitar enemies in a 40ft cube has to pass a wis save or start moving erratically and hitting anyone within range

[woven flint]

Campaigns aren't ran here

[severe rampart]

I like substituting an attack with a cantrip

[kind jetty]

Thanks

[severe rampart]

I prefer Valor over Swords

[woven flint]

Looks at Bladesinger

[kind jetty]

Well, What spells do you get after lvl 1?

[woven flint]

Looks at Eldritch Knight

[reef tundra]

gasp
-# No that’s valid, valour is a less “selfish” subclass with its bardic inspiration

[severe rampart]

Yup

[woven flint]

I think Bladesinger is only as strong as it is because of the class it's attached to tbh

[severe rampart]

Mhm, and Eldritch Knight is solid, but not really what I want in a spellcasting martial

[reef tundra]

You might summon Ophidomancer with that talk /j

[woven flint]

I mean, duh, Wizard.

[umbral girder]

Yep

[severe rampart]

I like Shortsword Vex, Booming Blade Shortsword, Scimitar Nick, and then your bonus action is still free to give out BI's

[kind jetty]

Guys, can anyone teach me how to be a good DM, cuz the last time I did that, it went bad.

[woven flint]

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think Valor Bard has good set up potentially

But let's be real Cleric, Wizard and Druid just take the cake for set up with Melee playstyles

[kind jetty]

Pls? 🥺

[woven flint]

#dm-discussion might help

[kind jetty]

Thnx, but how?

[severe rampart]

By... talking? learning?

[kind jetty]

Ikr, but any tips?

[severe rampart]

I've no idea how those class play out, I mostly picked Valor as it doesn't need to expend resources as much, if any

[hot gate]

The DM basics in the (free) basic rules are actually a great way to start:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/the-basics

[kind jetty]

Thnx guys.

[woven flint]

You don't with those either tbh

[severe rampart]

You can only bladesing a number of times equal to your prof bonus no?

[woven flint]

Bladesinger has enough bladesongs to last them through entire encounter days if you're smart

Cleric can just exist with heavy armor, stand in front of people and spam cantrips

Druid is Cleric but with medium armor and a stick

[woven flint]

I believe it's Intelligence, at least in 2024

[severe rampart]

oh yeah

[severe rampart]

Cleric aint really what I'm thinking of, I prefer wielding two weapons and just going ham, but I think I understand what you mean

[woven flint]

Looks at War Cleric

I'm not saying you should swap from Valor Bard if that's what you're thinking
I'm saying I think it's the weakest out of the caster Gishes

[severe rampart]

eh, it's fine, it's fun, what's the harm

[humble cairn]

Valor Bard is actually .. wait are we talking 2014 or 2024?

[severe rampart]

2024

but go on

[humble cairn]

Then Valor Bard is actually quite strong!

[severe rampart]

Smile :)

[woven flint]

Okay

[humble cairn]

You can monoclass Valor Bard and get Shillelagh + True Strike + Hextra Attack + CME + Steel Wind Strike.

Okay so Hextra Attack and SWS don't work at the same time.

[woven flint]

It's called an Opinion, as someone's who's played all of the Caster Gishes, I feel Valor is the weakest until Magical Secrets.
Sure, they still have control spells, but the others just do it better and don't have to wait to get their Spell list expanded.

[severe rampart]

cough if you also take two levels in fighter at the start you get their saving throw proficiency, weapon masteres, and action surge...

[pliant sapphire]

War cleric is not that strong at being "martial" like valor or bladesinger

[humble cairn]

Magical Secrets is certainly a part of why they are strong, yes.

[woven flint]

2024 War Cleric definetly is.

[humble cairn]

But even before Magical Secrets, they can still compete quite decently.

[reef tundra]

I used to dislike war cleric, but I’ve come around.

[pliant sapphire]

I have 1 at lvl 20. Its okay, but lacks the Hextra attack

[humble cairn]

Lacks Extra Attack entirely.

[reef tundra]

Also it gives me steel wind strike, and I love that spell for only 1 reason

[feral fulcrum]

Because Teleport Murder is cool?

[woven flint]

My Level 20 War Cleric smoked most encounters he was in.

He was also the only Frontliner.

[reef tundra]

Exactly. And Vergil

Makes me very happy

[feral fulcrum]

Obligatory I am the storm that is-

[woven flint]

I mean, you could count the Bonus action attack.
At least it comes back on short Rests now, but I've never found War Cleric lacking extra attack to be a problem.

[reef tundra]

I like it, makes it play different than the others

[woven flint]

War Cleric when
Spirit Gaurdians, Steel Wind Strike and just being a Cleric in general:

[reef tundra]

Differentiates it from the “formula” of the other melee subclasses that the other casters get

[reef tundra]

This is not a diss on them, I like them

[pliant sapphire]

You can do that with valor bard too

[woven flint]

Yeah.. at level 10

[humble cairn]

Oh I'm sure it's not, I was just noting the specific difference from the comment above about it lacking Hextra Attack.

[woven flint]

It's a lot less weak in 2024 rules, at minimum

I don't hate Valor Bard.
I just think Bladesinger and War are better and had more fun playing them.

I get the point that level 10 really opens them up to options, but then

You're also waiting til level 10 for those opened options.

ALSO
Cleric and Wizard have the benefits of preparing spells each long rest

[pliant sapphire]

Well, Steel Wind Strike comes at lvl 9

[humble cairn]

Not for Bard.

[woven flint]

Yeah, magical secrets is level 10.

[pliant sapphire]

Yeah, only 1 lvl..

[humble cairn]

Sure, I wasn't correcting you on your own opinion. I was just giving a different one.

[pliant sapphire]

Not a big difference

[woven flint]

Honestly, it's big enough of a difference for me.

[humble cairn]

I find Bards fun as it is and 2024 Valor definitely made it less boring of a subclass. Which the 2014 version definitely was.

To truly be a melee gish with it, you do really really want Shillelagh, I think.

[valid geyser]

I liked 2014 valor a lot, but I can get why people think it is a relatively plan gish

[thorn wedge]

What does gish actually mean

[humble cairn]

It was still a Bard, which means it worked great.

[woven flint]

It's a Githyanki term, actually!

[humble cairn]

Gish refers to a caste of Githyanki Mage Knights who went into combat with a blade in one hand and a spell in the other, but the word has now been generalized to characters who use both weapons and magic in combat.

[valid geyser]

Pretty much. I had one with a level in fighter so I had good armor for strength

[thorn wedge]

Gotcha

[woven flint]

You see, a Gish is someone that fights with Magic (Spellcasting) and Weapons.

There's a Githyanki enemy called the Gish, which I believe coined the term for DnD players

That's pretty sick tbh

[thorn wedge]

I like hexblade for that playstyle

Usually with some multiclassing

[humble cairn]

But yeah 2024 Valor (with Shillelagh from Background) has a pretty decent leveling experience as a gish, I think. You get the great Bard kit as a basis, and then you get a melee kit that scales in a few different ways.

[severe rampart]

Just calculated my level 8 Valor Bard's damage, 6d6+24 + 2d8, pretty nice

[woven flint]

I'd love for Sorcerer to have a Gish subclass, but I also understand that it'd probably be too close to Bladesinger and potentially a bit more powerful

[severe rampart]

wait, could also Green Flame Blade on the action surge by substituting an attack with a cantrip a second time

[humble cairn]

You do take a turn to power up before you start wailing away, but then yu do enough damage to catch up to the full martials fairly well.

[buoyant oar]

As a clarification, they were not enemy of the Gith. Githyanki Sword mages and War Wizards are called Gish

[woven flint]

Do Bards get Cacophonic Shield?

[valid geyser]

I’m honestly okay that Gish sorcerer doesn’t exist. Will it exist someday? Probably. But charisma already has 3 other classes with melee functions

[woven flint]

No, I said they were a Githyanki Enemy.
As in the enemy type.. Githyanki

[severe rampart]

I believe so

[grizzled lance]

The Gith

[woven flint]

I should've Clarified Gith as in monster

[valid geyser]

But also I just dislike a lot of the power creepy aspects of gishes on principle so I’m okay with seeing less of them

[grizzled lance]

Yellow as a toad and twice as ugly

[buoyant oar]

Make a Gish who has a primary stat of strength.

[reef tundra]

I think they’re cute 😭

[valid geyser]

I do wish cantrip extra attack was only for fighters 😔

[buoyant oar]

Give me the Sith class. Magic barb

[woven flint]

Just looked, they do!

[grizzled lance]

That’s what a BG3 npc said not me

[woven flint]

Githyanki are alright.
Too bad Vlaakith sucks

[grizzled lance]

Act 1 when you meet Laezel outside of the noid

[humble cairn]

Eldritch Knight can be this.

[feral fulcrum]

Do as the fairy does. Kill them and steal their job title.

[woven flint]

War Cleric can also do that

[humble cairn]

It started out as a Wizard thing. You'd prefer it was taken away from them?

[woven flint]

Clerics and Fighters can be stronk

[valid geyser]

Wizards got plenty. I don’t think they’d mind

[feral fulcrum]

Bladesinger Gish would mind VERY much

[valid geyser]

But it was for e knight first then bladesinger got their paws on it

[humble cairn]

Bladesinger fans would probably scream bloody murder.

[feral fulcrum]

Because you can't both Use Sword, and Use Cantrip without it

[buoyant oar]

I think if any class got less it should be wizards. Wizzy already gets so much.

[valid geyser]

Bladesingers can cry with their 25 AC

[severe rampart]

Valor bard in the background silently eating

[woven flint]

Hextra Attack is Bladesingers bread and butter though tbh

[grizzled lance]

You make even the devil cry

[buoyant oar]

Not me enforcing elven bladsingers until their new books came out

[feral fulcrum]

The point of Gish is to be able to effectively use magic And competently fight with Melee, not "Pick one, stupid."

[severe rampart]

... The Devil May Cry?

[woven flint]

Exactly!

[valid geyser]

I think bladesingers will live. They get conjure minor elementals. They’ll do fine damage

[feral fulcrum]

It's not a damage problem! It's a fantasy problem!

[valid geyser]

Ideally it should be good at both master of none but wizards already got the master of magic stuff so

[severe rampart]

hey hey, Jack of All Trades is a bard thing

[buoyant oar]

Elven bladsingers are too lore intrinsic to the realms to ever really debuff though.

[grizzled lance]

Wait till they hear about conjure major elements

[woven flint]

Again, the fantasy of Gishes isn't "Pick One, stupid!" as asdx so eloquently put it lol

[oak grotto]

Does anyone know what this new lupin race is about? Are these like wolf people?

[feral fulcrum]

They are indeed, wolf people

[buoyant oar]

It's not out yet but seems to be that

[woven flint]

Yes! They are!

[severe rampart]

10th level spell: 300 ft emanation, any and all attacks made by you within this emanation will have an additional 11d8, applies on saving throws

[feral fulcrum]

like proper wolf people, not "Furry Adjacent" Shifters.

[grizzled lance]

Domain expansion: conjure major elements

[oak grotto]

The furry community is gonna be eating well soon.

[valid geyser]

And they get both. If you picked one or the other, you’d have a different class or subclass

[woven flint]

I don't think Shifters are necessarily furry adjacent

[severe rampart]

Scorching Ray becomes Meteor Swarm

[feral fulcrum]

Don't get me wrong, I like shifters mechanically, but flavor wise. "Just kinda ugly, overly hairy people really."

[severe rampart]

How did the conversation get to here now 😭

We were just talking about bladesingers!

[hard finch]

guys is monk is a good class ?

[severe rampart]

all classes are good

[feral fulcrum]

Every class is a good class

[oak grotto]

Shifters and lupins are different though, no?

[woven flint]

They mentioned that, I saw it, blame them, not me.

[humble cairn]

I totally agree, but I also think Hextra Attack isn't the only way to accomplish this. Bladepact Warlocks don't have Hextra Attack and they surely fulfill the gish fantasy as well.

[feral fulcrum]

Except for 2014 Ranger. That one was just deeply flawed

Tasha's Ranger was a Vast improvement

[buoyant oar]

Shifters are mini lycanthropes. Lupins aren't.

[hard finch]

@feral fulcrum @severe rampart is it eazy ?

[severe rampart]

It's as easy as any class

[grizzled lance]

What are Lupins

[humble cairn]

2014 Ranger had horribly designed features and still managed to be mechanically viable, to it's credit.

[hard finch]

guys I am new

[severe rampart]

That guy from Harry Potter

[woven flint]

Shifters are people who were born lycanthropes

[feral fulcrum]

It's certainly easier then Casters for new players.

[umbral girder]

New race in Ravenloft

[feral fulcrum]

But probably harder to learn then Fighter

But Fighter's dumb as a brick, so...

[hard finch]

so somethings like spells is hard for me

[valid geyser]

Lupins iirc in older editions are people who were touched with lycanthropy and didn’t succumb to the curse. They can’t change to and from, they’re just stuck as wolf guys

[oak grotto]

I suggest heading towards #dnd-newcomers. But monks are considered to be one of the more beginner friendly classes since spellcasters are more complex.

[flint ledge]

All classes are a good class

[severe rampart]

So... I can play a pup person?

[woven flint]

I don't know, I like to think Monk has the most mechanically complexity of Martials tbh
You can just "Go hit things" and still be effective, but then you're not using the entire kit lol

[valid geyser]

You could, yeah

[hard finch]

okay thanks brother

[severe rampart]

Golden Retriever Paladin incoming

[buoyant oar]

As much as Leonin and Tabaxi are cat person

[undone rain]

Is it just me who wants more celestial races. Like aasimars all well and good but why not more

[buoyant oar]

You would need to balance them out with more fiendish species

[grizzled lance]

Until you play the fighter subclass

[undone rain]

Stand ready for my arrival

[feral fulcrum]

I think you probably misread my post?

[woven flint]

That's one thing that frustrates me

People that play Tabaxi like they're housecats
Firstly...
Ew!
Secondly, they're Jaguar-folk, they're primal hunters!!!

[severe rampart]

You were given orders, you were given time. You were given more leeway than most, and yet I find this planet unprepared for the arrival of our Puppy Empire.

[oak grotto]

I don't think there's a need for more celestial races. I don't see how you could make another celestial race that could logically work.

[severe rampart]

Had my dog by my side while typing that

[buoyant oar]

Then you have the Jagres of Maztica

Jagres wore magical armor made from the skin of displacer beasts, which allowed them to transform into the beasts.

[undone rain]

Well how about hollyphants

[woven flint]

My Tabaxi all just kind of acted like normal people

I did the Khajiit voice thing, but they all similarly got irritated when compared to cats lol

[feral fulcrum]

I want to play a Small Tabaxi like a certain form of Khajjit from the Elder Scrolls Lore. The ones where they're basically mostly House Cat shapped, but are fully dexterous like a person. Afiq-raht are what they were called IIRC.

[valid geyser]

I think it can work. It’d probably had to be part of the flavor instead of the whole deal but I’m sure something would work

[oak grotto]

They're just flying baby elephants. They can't even pick up weapons.

[woven flint]

My Tabaxi Grave Cleric (my baby boy in my pfp)
Was probably my favorite character I've ever played because my performance with him actually made another player cry at his kindness lmao

[buoyant oar]

The thing with extra planar species is that most of the inhabitants of the outer planes aren't even spirits or the dead. Like the upper planes have full on normal civilizations in them.

So a human from Bytopia would be just as common as a deva.

[grizzled lance]

Don’t they know a 9th level spell?

[woven flint]

He was the only member of his church left after a slaughter, but he stayed on the island to continue protecting people even though he was growing old and feeble

[severe rampart]

Alright I got 4 hours to learn how Oath of The Ancients Paladin works

[buoyant oar]

And they can do that thing where they can transform into a war mastodon

[woven flint]

Throw out spells occasionally 😎

[severe rampart]

So... use all of my smite slots on every hit, thanks!

[woven flint]

Goddamnit..

No! Don't do that! Please!! Aaaaghhh...

[buoyant oar]

But I'm game for people doing things like playing angels and slaad. But that only for a Planescape game. A horned devil ain't gonna be kicking it in Phandalin

[severe rampart]

Playing Farmerboy Paladin with a shovel as his main weapon

[grizzled lance]

Yeah the hollyphant can cast banishment heal raise dead shape change and teleport

[buoyant oar]

It would have to be a player variant. Like centuar monster is large. Centuar player is medium

[undone rain]

How tall are hollyphants usually

[woven flint]

My Ancients Paladin idea was a Saytr Reveler whom drunkenly made an Oath to an Archfey to spread Whimsy although he was already doing that..
Now he's just got Paladin powers lol

[feral fulcrum]

You want to play a Celestial thingy, be an Aasimar, you want something fiendish, Tiefling.

[grizzled lance]

Small so 2-4ft tall

[grizzled lance]

I want more options tbh

[undone rain]

Okay so around the size of a gnome

[woven flint]

Puntable

[buoyant oar]

And they are permanently flying

[severe rampart]

Supposedly this campaign is deadly, might have to sacrifice myself for the party's sake at some point and that might be a pretty cool first character death

[grizzled lance]

They also have aura of invulnerability

[feral fulcrum]

Then seek homebrew, because I really, REALLY don't want Celestial/Fiends to get the Elf treatment

[oak grotto]

How would one even play a hollyphant fighter or barbarian?

[grizzled lance]

Just like 1 or 2

[feral fulcrum]

and have 30 flavors of "Celestial-touched" and "Fiend-touched"

[grizzled lance]

DONT:

hollyphants are broken

[buoyant oar]

I would be down with teiflings and Aasimar getting split up again.

Like in older editions elf teiflings were called Fey'ri. Orc tieflings were called Tannaruk

[lethal bobcat]

At what level can I thematically start running genocide? Is Tier 3 that level?

[feral fulcrum]

Poorly, generally.

[severe rampart]

Late tier 2 to early tier 3 maybe?

[feral fulcrum]

Given the lack of functional, practical arms

[grizzled lance]

people often forget about this trait
Aura of Invulnerability. An invisible aura forms a 10-foot-radius sphere around the hollyphant for as long as it lives. Any spell of 5th level or lower cast from outside the barrier can’t affect creatures or objects within it, even if the spell is cast using a higher level spell slot. Such a spell can target creatures and objects within the barrier, but the spell has no effect on them. Similarly, the area within the barrier is excluded from the areas affected by such spells. The hollyphant can use an action to suppress this trait until its concentration ends (as if concentrating on a spell).

[lethal bobcat]

Ah so honestly kinda as expected

Goblins B gone

[severe rampart]

if it's meaningful to the story, yeah

I mean, not much they can do about it at early levels

what are they gonna do, cast dancing lights?

[feral fulcrum]

If it's genocide jsut for the sake of "Hur hur, slaughter" Or "Hur hur, fantasy racism" It's really...better off just not doing that?

[grizzled lance]

Why did they give the hollyphant that trait anyway

[oak grotto]

Are you the DM? If not please don't be that guy who senselessly kills every single NPC that you find.

[grizzled lance]

Tier 4

[lethal bobcat]

Nah, I didn't prepare a good BBEG hook and did keep track of where monsters were killed. I dunno what my players wanna do but I think if I know them, "saving the land forever" against new fortresses of goblins sounds like something they'd be into

[buoyant oar]

I am running a mass slaughter in my living campaign but that is a Mass Effect 3 scenario where a force has invaded Faerûn and the players are in a race against time to stop the total extinction of mortal species.

One of the most helpful things I did to set my players mind's right was to tell them emphatically.

"This is not a story of prevention. It is a story of mitigation."

[severe rampart]

Saving the world forever by senseless killing?

completely wiping out an entire species?

[pliant sapphire]

Eren vibes

[lethal bobcat]

They are kinda always Evil

[severe rampart]

Oh. Well if that's the tone of the campaign.

If they want to go all murderhobo and you're allowing them to

[lethal bobcat]

Usually I wing it between modules so tone is a big word

[severe rampart]

What module are you running?

[lethal bobcat]

The free ones I can find

[severe rampart]

Ah. I see

First off, you are the DM correct?

[lethal bobcat]

In that specific group, yes

[severe rampart]

When you started the campaign, did you say that it was an evil campaign, or did they just start to be evil?

[lethal bobcat]

Neither tbh

[severe rampart]

then what actions did they do for you to consider them "always Evil"

[lethal bobcat]

I was talking about Goblins

Not the PCs

[severe rampart]

Oh, well that makes more sense, I suppose.

Then, again, why would those Goblins do that?

[lethal bobcat]

No the PCs, against the goblins

[severe rampart]

Okay, so, why would the PCs do that?

did their actions lead you to believe they'll start to slaughter goblins?

[lethal bobcat]

They never questioned killing goblins before, size irrelevant, and while they're high level their builds kinda suck so I couldn't run modules vanilla anyway

[severe rampart]

Right. Have you asked them what they thought? you can't really decide "My PCs are committing a slaughter against goblins" on your own, as that'd be railroading

and maybe talk about their builds? help them with it?

especially if they're newer

[lethal bobcat]

It's the stubborn group I talked about before, but I still prefer playing over not

[severe rampart]

Stubborn how?

if they're not respecting you then kick them out. Find new players.

You can always start again. Get members that respect you.

[lethal bobcat]

I didn't expect the idea of killing every goblin as being something considered evil as usually they're fodder and stuff

[severe rampart]

2024, they're pretty intelligent, and you can also play as goblins

[fossil hollow]

thats the definition of Genocide

[severe rampart]

So yeah, that's still slaughter.

and killing every goblin means every goblin.

[lethal bobcat]

Weren't Goblins locked to Evil alignment even? Or "locked", the same way Volo's Orcs were

[severe rampart]

No, not now

Stereotypes like that actively harms the game

[humble cairn]

D&D has a history of portraying certain people as inherently evil and thus okay to kill with impunity, but that is now rightly viewed as problematic.

[fossil hollow]

never were locked

Volo is also pretty damn racist

[humble cairn]

WOTC even made a statement in 2018 about how they acknowledged that portraying people as inherently evil was a problem and that they were going to stop doing that going forward from that point.

They have made some progress, but they are fighting against a game with roots in "go someplace, kill the people there, take their stuff" as a game loop.

[lethal bobcat]

PHB also said Elves were more Chaotic if I remember

[fossil hollow]

and?

[severe rampart]

No.

[lethal bobcat]

That it wasn't just Volo

[fossil hollow]

PHB is also not a hard "this is how everyone of particular species is"

[humble cairn]

All people can have any morality, they are self willed and can make choices.

[severe rampart]

It baffles me that you don't see the point

[buoyant oar]

And its important to note many of these species were not handled as blanket inherently evil prior to 5e. 4e did a lot of walking back and 5e has been slowly coming back to this mantra

[lethal bobcat]

Hard-coded stats, harder to do certain playstyles and at the time, that was better than earlier editions

[fossil hollow]

the Ellistrae (or however you spell it) drow and Drizzt has been fighting the evil drow stereotype for decades

[reef tundra]

Goblins are only the way they are because of their society
-# 🤡

[buoyant oar]

Peaceful Orc clans have been in the Realms since 2e.

[humble cairn]

And any society only goes as far as that setting.

[reef tundra]

Dizzt fighting them stereotypes since (insert date that Drizzt has been around since)

[severe rampart]

What does this mean?

[humble cairn]

These also went away, and good riddance.

[buoyant oar]

First Drizzt novel was in 1989 and he was born in 1230s DR

[severe rampart]

Has he not seen Tasha's

[reef tundra]

Dizzt been fighting the stereotypes since 1989 😎

[fossil hollow]

books theyve been referencing are all pre Tasha.. so

[reef tundra]

I hope he hasn’t, that’s my wife >:(

[fossil hollow]

You got Vecna already

[buoyant oar]

And he was not the only Drow main character in realms fiction. Lirel Baenre also bucked trends of Menzobarrenzan society.

[reef tundra]

I’m allowed to have both >:(

[fossil hollow]

Share the witch >:(

[severe rampart]

honestly I'm pretty done with that convo, even willingly giving the PCs the option to wipe out an entire species is something I'd walk away from the table for

[reef tundra]

No, they can only share me

[reef tundra]

Same here

[fossil hollow]

Grazzt be like:

[lethal bobcat]

I feel like I missed out on all the crucial goblin lore

[severe rampart]

If that's the kind of campaign you want to play, go ahead then, you've mentioned your players don't listen to you so perhaps try setting your foot down sometimes, though.

[reef tundra]

Yeah goblin lore is horrific. I just wanna march into Acheron and show Maglubiet what for >:(

[fossil hollow]

Id also like to point ouit Volo even says this in the goblin section:

On the surface, goblins, bugbears, and hobgoblins are as different as halflings, dwarves, and elves. Each race has its own tendencies, outlook, culture, and gods.

the rest is just saying their captor god keeps them together

[lethal bobcat]

What is that from?

[fossil hollow]

Volo

[reef tundra]

Volo

Volo’s guide to monsters specifically

[fossil hollow]

the book you were saying locked goblins

[halcyon forum]

a huge plot point of my current home game is that a large group of goblinoids in FR chose a literal deal with the devil to escape Maglubiet

because the guy and goblin afterlife are that bad

so even the battlefields of Avernus seems like an improvement

[lethal bobcat]

Oh ye, I feel like I see this as meaning something entirely different now oops

Actually is there any good book going into monsters? I saw the 2024 PHB still used it so the term confuses me

[halcyon forum]

Volo's guide to monsters and Mordenkainen's tome of foes are great books, even if some statements are a bit iffy

[fossil hollow]

Mordenkainen's Monsters of the Multiverse

[lethal bobcat]

It also mentions disposition, or the DMG did, but then all you get is a stat block you van fight

[halcyon forum]

I dont agree from a lore perspective. its a good collection of statblocks

[lethal bobcat]

Oh the new book? I'll have a look then. I think I understand I was quite ignorant

[halcyon forum]

basically, since 2020, wotc have changed their approach to lore in their books. nowadays, its all very generalised, generic and vague, so make sure it fits into as many games and settings as possible.
earlier books go much more into depth, but at the cost of being essentially only true for 1 or 2 specific official settings

baiscally, the approach used to be : "this is all the lore, discard or change what you dont like" to "here are some general infos that are probably true, figure out the details yourself"

[lethal bobcat]

Ye the issue is, I stopped playing as player much earlier and only picked up some PCs and finally a DM screen late last year

So I kinda missed a lot of books and seemingly lore

[halcyon forum]

Volo's and tome of foes are not sold anymore, but its probably possible to get them second hand or join a campagn with someone who has them on DDB

if you want to read lore for free, there is the forgotten realms wiki

[lavish flame]

They even point you to the Forgotten Realms wiki in the new Forgotten Realms: Adventures/Heroes books

[lethal bobcat]

Oh I do have Volo's actually. That's actually where I got my impression of goblins from, if it even recommends against playing them due to their alignment

[bronze canopy]

If you want them to be, goblins can still be totally evil. It just no longer comes from WotC. It’s too large of a generalization for official lore now

[cyan blaze]

I really wish we could order the bundles (like the current Ravenloft Bundle) with the alternate art covers and still get the bundle and preorder perks.

I know the alt art covers are for FLGS exclusivity, but with the popularity of the HUGE stores around the US having tons of online orders, it really doesn't matter anymore.

Even if it's a coupon or certificate I can give to my FLGS to pick it up there...I don't care how they do it, but I don't understand why they can't allow for pre-order of the alt art cover, even if it's like $10 more.

[halcyon forum]

its easy enough to prortrait the evils of majority goblin culture as a result of Maglubiet screwing them at every turn. They are both victims and perpetrators of evil. its both in line with older and newer lore

[lethal bobcat]

I didn't expect to feel bad for the lil dudes but now I do

[atomic kayak]

For the setting generic books anyway.

Their setting specific stuff has still been well. Specific. And generally not really vague.

[lethal bobcat]

I may be reading Ebberon: Forge of the Artificer wrong (as the only book I have of that setting) but the races there at least feel much less specific as well

Like more usable overall, still with similar lore

[vast saddle]

So, I just invited my friend to join a West Marches campaign. It backfired somehow

[atomic kayak]

Not particularly sure what you are trying to say here

[vast saddle]

My friend warned me about the issues of being poorly booked by the DMs instead

[atomic kayak]

Eberron does share some species with other settings, but the lore from the eberron books is still specific to the setting

[reef tundra]

Oh no, what happened 😭

[fossil hollow]

I never hear anything good about West Marches, doesnt surprise me

[buoyant oar]

Yea at least with Volos I don't know how that wasn't supposed to be setting specific considering. Well Volo's Guides are a realms thing

[fossil hollow]

Yeah. Volo only lives in the Realms

[vast saddle]

He warned me that I might be poorly booked there instead

[atomic kayak]

Elves or Halflings or gnomes in eberron have pretty distinct lore from other settings

[lethal bobcat]

That the new book that's still focused in one campaign feels like it can be used more generally, and for roleplaying purposes they once again removed things like alignment and ability scores baked into their race

[lavish flame]

I cannot get over how rad Eberron Halflings are

[fossil hollow]

If you need stat increases on a species to RP, you lost the point

[reef tundra]

They are so cool

[halcyon forum]

I think the argument is that forge of the artificer is much less in depth that rising from the last war or even older eberron lore

[buoyant oar]

A good West Marches requires a level of work that 99% of GMs are not capable or willing to do.

They can be good, I have 90% of the way through my second one. But take the prep of a regular campaign and multiply it by 5-8x

[atomic kayak]

It was meant to be FR specific yea. And was broadly (mostly obliquely) referred to as such in various parts of the book.

But it took a few years for it to get an errata that specified that it was FR specific.

[lethal bobcat]

I was talking about the opposite. It'd be weird if you walked in as a crow and spoke plain Common

More freedom is nice

[atomic kayak]

Ah well thats cause its more a companion book the last war

[fossil hollow]

Well, you arent playing as a crow unless youre a wildshaped druid

Also, crows can mimic people

[vast saddle]

Does it mean...what they don't book for a campaign is probably the better booking?

[lavish flame]

I do wish Eberron: Forge offered some info about Goliaths and Aasimar, cuz they're newly PHB Species in 2024, but they don't have an entry in Eberron: Rising.

[atomic kayak]

Removal of alignment and ability score of species is not a roleplay thing or anything like that

Its also been the standard for quite a number of years in 5e now

[lethal bobcat]

Kenku

[halcyon forum]

well kinda, it also updates some stuff like dragonmarks to be less specific.

[fossil hollow]

they can "speak" if you teach them enough. Corvids are smart as toddlers

[fossil hollow]

Not actual crows

[lethal bobcat]

I was talking about the whole repeating thing with Kenku

[fossil hollow]

and im fairly sure theyre more raven

[buoyant oar]

Forge of the Artificer served the only purpose of putting artificer out in 5.5. Releasing a companion book for a book that is approaching 7 years old serves little purpose

[lethal bobcat]

Oh oops

[atomic kayak]

It was for mechanical updates yes

A companion book nonetheless

[fossil hollow]

Kenku can speak common :V
They would just speak common via other people's voices, like Bumblebee

[lavish flame]

I feel there's still great value to be found in those "campaign frame" chapters

[buoyant oar]

I would have personally preferred a meatier book and waited longer for Artificer

At least HoF level

[lethal bobcat]

Oh I thought they could only repeat people. I remember everyone hating players playing them when Volo's came out

[lavish flame]

samesies

[fossil hollow]

I would have loved some more Overlord stats

[atomic kayak]

Same. Some more exploration of non Khorvaire places

Put Artificer in another splatbook

[buoyant oar]

Eberron is too good for what we got.

[fossil hollow]

I mean. They can. They can also mimic other things, which is where the charades and annoyances came in

Copying other people? not much issue if youre just saying what you are saying. Copying a cat's yowl and then a dog's bark and saying that means its time to eat?

[lavish flame]

They could, then that got walked back as a limitation and is now an additional ability of theirs. It was just hell to roleplay as a player, so now its just mentioned that "Some of them paint their genesis as a curse, being a flightless bird people doomed to mimic other people’s creations".

[buoyant oar]

Volos was in their weird moment when Wizards felt hostility towards settings. Where it took them years to specify it was FR specific. Around the same time where they were Adamant that Ghosts of Saltmarsh was not Greyhawk. And it was setting agnostic.

[lethal bobcat]

You can speak only by your mimicry trait"

[fossil hollow]

And you can mimic any sound.

Also, literally in the same book you keep referencing:

If you’re playing a kenku, constant attempts to mimic noises can come across as confusing or irritating rather than entertaining. You can just as easily describe the sounds your character makes and what they mean. Be clear about your character’s intentions unless you’re deliberately aiming for inscrutable or mysterious.

You might say, “Snapper makes the noise of a hammer slowly and rhythmically tapping a stone to show how bored he is. He plays with his dagger and studies the Lords’ Alliance agent sitting at the bar.” Creating a vocabulary of noises for the other players to decode might sound like fun, but it can prove distracting and could slow down the game.

[lethal bobcat]

But not make them originally or that's certainly how it was ruled based on how hated it was

[fossil hollow]

Like, this is literally in that book

Mimicry also literally says:

Mimicry
You can mimic sounds you have heard, including voices.

[lethal bobcat]

Is that any less annoying?

[fossil hollow]

Where have you seen me say its less annoying

[lethal bobcat]

Fair enough

Kenku reprint with it as ability but full Common from themselves would go hard

Less of a curse basically

[fossil hollow]

nothing is stopping you from going full bumblebee radio shifting anyway...