dnd-discussion

[uncut zenith]

When I first played one, I kept forgetting that if I really needed to, I could convert down slots into Sorcery Points and vice versa

[humble cairn]

💯 agreed. I really wish they had kept that.

[lyric viper]

Lots of twinning if I recall. Something else too.

Been a while- this was also before sorcs started being given more in their subclasses to make up for limited spells known

[ripe nimbus]

yeah, I think there were way better solutions to the issue than tearing out the mixed ancestries root and branch. something like pathfinder’s versatile heritage system would’ve gone a long way, i think, or yeah the customized origin

[lyric viper]

Which also frustrated me at a time of being stuck with very specific spells I couldn't easily change, and then not even being able to cast them too often.

[buoyant oar]

I get that half-elves have a distinct name in Eberron which is why they appear in the new books. But its felt weird they did that but didn't just make up a name for FR which was supposed to be released after Eberron originally. Just strange.

[lyric viper]

TBH. Khoravar is more a specific nation than a name for mixed elven-human heritage

[buoyant oar]

Its they had a solution that only the weirdo perpetually angry people disliked and chose to not implement it.

[lyric viper]

You could be mixed elf-human and not be Khoravar.

[red steppe]

dnd 5e rn

[buoyant oar]

I would be down with WOTC creating something like that for FR would have been a bit of fresh air. Imo

[ripe nimbus]

i like sorcerers but was really disappointed with them when i first got introduced to 5e

[lyric viper]

I guess in FR you could compare to. is it the Yuirwood? A city in there? That is pretty much majority mixed elven-human, and them then referring to themselves as say 'Yuirfolk'.

[hidden spindle]

I liked Wizards when I first got into 5e & D&D but decision paralysis kicked in so Sorcerer took the cake

[ripe nimbus]

because 3.5e was the first dnd rulebook id read so my idea of sorcerers, who i loved as a class, was just how all 5e casters cast now

[buoyant oar]

Yuirfolk or even Aglarond at large would have been perfect for such a heritage. Or honestly a lot of the northern Dales. That whole region was Elven dominated for a long time.

[hidden spindle]

Really? I didn't know that.

I think they should totally go back to loading a Spell slot with a Spell for the day

[lyric viper]

Aglarond! That was it.

[grizzled lance]

I just want a new class atp

[ripe nimbus]

oh yeah in 3.5e you did full vancian casting for wizards. sorcerer’s entire thing was that they could freely spend their spell slots on whatever of their spells known they wanted

[grizzled lance]

It’s been 10 years

[short brook]

same.

[ripe nimbus]

and then i got to 5e and now wizards got that, and in addition sorcerers got the same number of spell slots as wizards, and in addition they often had fewer spells known than a wizard of the same level could prepare in a day and couldn’t change it.

this was before i realized they also made metamagic a sorcerer exclusive

[paper portal]

artificers arent that old are they?

[tender fossil]

Mechanically no they are relatively recent

[ripe nimbus]

but then i played a couple sorcerers and i love them. good class ❤️

[grizzled lance]

They came out with TCoE which was around 2019

[short brook]

7 years.

[grizzled lance]

But they were in UA since 2017

[tender fossil]

Older editions you could effectively play an artificer but You had to piece it together through special rules

[short brook]

🫠 something new would be nice

[lean wigeon]

waow
yurifolk

[ripe nimbus]

they might be coming out with the psion if the UA goes well?

[tender fossil]

They would have to be able to get the psychic rules right something that they haven't been able to do for a while. Actually in really any addition

[ripe nimbus]

(Aberrant Mind Sorcerer get sad)

[short brook]

I actually haven't taken a look at psion myself, just heard about it

[ripe nimbus]

they’re just making them spellcasters now…

[tender fossil]

Most psychic classes are just reskinned Wizards or other spellcasters

[grizzled lance]

Oops all spell casters

[lean wigeon]

i want a proper int halfcaster that isnt artificer

[ripe nimbus]

what like a dedicated gish class?

[grizzled lance]

That could be interesting

[tender fossil]

In 2014 that was literally half of the fighter subclasses

[paper portal]

thats so specific lol

[ripe nimbus]

those were 3rd casters

[grizzled lance]

Eldritch knight

Not a half caster through

[ripe nimbus]

and then the other gish subclasses were full casters

[humble cairn]

Paladin and Ranger are dedicated gish classes.

[lean wigeon]

4e and pf2e fixes this by having swordmage and magus respectively

[grizzled lance]

One uses charisma and the other uses wisdom

[ripe nimbus]

yeah but i don’t like those games in other respects so tradeoffs

[humble cairn]

Uh huh?

[grizzled lance]

He said int

[lean wigeon]

but yeah
it would be cool to rehash the 4e swordmage into a 5e class

[halcyon forum]

Its kinda funny, this game has like 10 different options to be a Gish and people still are not happy with all of them

[lean wigeon]

because we do not have a proper arcane INT half caster gish class

[humble cairn]

Oh I think I was responding to a comment downstream of that.

[ripe nimbus]

gish ime usually means warrior + arcane not warrior + divine. i mean it derives from a fighter/wizard build from ad&d right?

[grizzled lance]

I like Paladin and that’s bout it

[humble cairn]

Gish has been generalized to mean magic + weapons.

[grizzled lance]

That one rouge subclass got buffed recently as well

[halcyon forum]

you got Eldritch Knight, Battle Smith and Bladesinger just for INT gishes.

[grizzled lance]

To include all wizard spells

[lean wigeon]

tbf the arcane gish options we have atm are third casters and full casters. we don't have a proper half caster option

[grizzled lance]

I don’t like blandsinger cause lack of two handed weapons

[stiff rock]

I kinda think people don't like many gish builds because they do two jobs half as well in comparison to other classes that do one job really well

[halcyon forum]

Swords/Valor Bard or Bladelock for another arcane Gish

[humble cairn]

Armorer and now Artillerist as well count.

[paper portal]

personally i wanna see more caster variants, warlocks being unique is cool but there should be others

[stiff rock]

Not that I've played a gish, but that's the general vibe i've seen from my players who do

[humble cairn]

I love playing gishes.

[paper portal]

well if you got to do both just as well as the dedicated classes that wouldnt be fair lol

[delicate owl]

None of it works is the issue, they needed a dedicated class for combining their spells and attacks properly. Paladin is ok, but its heavily support focused. They essentially needed a damage and utility focused one.

Magus from pf is a good example, though even there it kinda falls by the wayside afaik. But thatd be the general principle in what I'd want.

[lean wigeon]

i also feel icky about running an artificer in a non-eberron setting and even if i could get past that their primary fantasy is less "spellblade" and more "magic inventor"

[humble cairn]

General shape of gish combat is taking a .5-1 turn to set up and then relying on their setup to catch up to the full martials who were able to just start wailing on enemies right away.

[crimson gulch]

artificers work great outside of ebberon

theres tones of lore from them in FR Krynn, Planescape, Exandria

[humble cairn]

Lantan, in FR, for one.

[halcyon forum]

dwarves an gnomes both have a lot of magi tech focused communities in FR in general

[ripe nimbus]

longswords still work well for the two handed gish fantasy unless you are specifically wanting polearms or claymores or similar length things

[delicate owl]

If Artificer got cme, then battle smith, armorer and that third party forge adept would be pretty solid.

But they dont. So they suffer. Theyd need a dragonmark essentially.

[humble cairn]

Valor Bard is kind of really good at gishing in 2024.

Monoclass you get Hextra Attack, decent armor, shields, and Magical Secrets to pick up CME and Steel Wind Strike, a background to pick up Shillelagh unless you think that Magical Secrets works for that, too.

Hextra attack, using your casting stat for weapons, an on-hit damage enhancer, Weapon masteries, decent AC. I personally say you need at least two things from this list to make an okay gish build.

Being able to spellcast is a requirement before that list, as is at least some decent weaopn profs.

[grizzled lance]

Screw the best dnd what’s the worst dnd race

[sleek cloud]

Kobolds

[humble cairn]

Whichever one doesn't appeal to you or which doesn't work for the game at hand.

[grizzled lance]

Smites you

[atomic kayak]

Im so confused if you are saying if artificer isn't a proper Int half caster or not lol

[atomic kayak]

Short version of artificers is "they use magic items" - how its flavored deeper than that is variable

[grizzled lance]

I think there saying they want one that isn’t arti

[atomic kayak]

Maybe. Artificer is fully a proper half caster. Its just not a gish (at base)

Imo thats a good thing. More non gish half casters is a very open design space

[hidden spindle]

You could play a Sidekick: Mage

But yeah, Artificer are proper Half Casters

[feral fulcrum]

They're decent

[cerulean monolith]

Ironically runs into a lot of the same issues

Using Sidekicks for Gish spellcasters doesn’t work because:

1. in 5e, it is basically a necessity for Gishes to have Hextra Attack
2. There’s actually no base monster really good enough, except for Performer which doesn’t lend itself to an INT build. Ideal would be Scout or Tough but neither have a reasonably high mental stat

[atomic kayak]

I think the idea that a gish needs cantrip extra attack is flawed in a few capacities

For one, it makes them. Incredibly boring. (When they all have it)

[humble cairn]

I think you can still be a gish without Hextra Attack, but then you need some combination of Weapon Mastery or attacking with your casting stat.

Artillerists are gishes in 2024 and they don't have Hextra Attack. In fact they don't have Extra Attack at all.

[hollow stone]

i thought only Eldritch Knight got hextra attack?

[humble cairn]

Bladepact Warlocks are also gishes, and they don't have Hextra Attack.

[atomic kayak]

They do via invocations

[humble cairn]

Bladesingers and Valor Bards, too.

[humble cairn]

Hextra Attack, specifically?

[hollow stone]

Rangers are also gish, and they also don't get to

[atomic kayak]

(I truly hate the name hextra attack)

They've got extra attack. I suppose they don't have cantrip extra attack

[humble cairn]

Paladins are gishes. No Hextra Attack.

[humble cairn]

It's the most efficient nickname for that I've ever heard and I adore it.

[cerulean monolith]

The 5e combat loop makes it feel bad to not be able to do cool things and attack in the same turn, especially when both of those are options are roughly as strong for you

[humble cairn]

Yeah, which is why a lot of the gish stuff (Paladin, Ranger) are Bonus Actions.

[hollow stone]

Arcane Rogues are gish and (afaik) they can't Sneak Attack with a spell or cantrip

[humble cairn]

True Strike, Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade

[atomic kayak]

More gishes should utilize their BA for stuff like that

Its part of why I hated the most recent magic monk UA. They got cantrip EA when Monks have a whole thing about using their BA for stuff. Just horrendously boring and poorly designed

[sleek cloud]

they should just rework sun soul already

[hollow stone]

but those are all contingent on a weapon attack, right?

[humble cairn]

The default PHB gishes, Paladin and Ranger, use their BA for stuff rather than Hextra Attack.

[sleek cloud]

Dual qualifications,yes

[atomic kayak]

Sun soul base is already great. Really just needs some QoL

[humble cairn]

Yes?

[atomic kayak]

As is SA

[hollow stone]

yea no i'm saying they should be able to sneak attack with spell attack rolls

[cerulean monolith]

Generally AT rogues aren’t expected to use their spells offensively, largely

[hollow stone]

obv more balanced than just this sentence but like

[humble cairn]

But no, Hextra Attack is not required to be a gish. It's nice, but not required.

Something like this is what I think is required to be a decent gish build: #dnd-discussion message

[hollow stone]

if more martial-core gish could get it would be pretty sick, especially Ranger, since they continue to have comically little going for them

[atomic kayak]

Ill be honest I don't think even two of those are required to be an ok gish

[humble cairn]

Ranger actually has a lot of tools at their disposal that are very useful.

[atomic kayak]

Half the issue with things that make an "ok" or even "good" gish is the existence of bladesinger

Which is to say - it doing too much

[humble cairn]

Ranger and Paladin as a default are good gish builds right from the get go.

[atomic kayak]

(Im also of the opinion that weapon attacking with casting mod shouldnt exist on most gishes)

[humble cairn]

They blend magic and weapons fairly nicely.

[atomic kayak]

But particularly not full caster gishes

[feral fulcrum]

I think Bladesinger is perfectly fine. You can either do Cool Sword Thing, or you can cast a spell. You can't do both at the same time generally.

[humble cairn]

They have a whole feature built to do exactly this every turn.

[feral fulcrum]

I mean leveled spells, not the cantrip feature

[hollow stone]

idk, i feel imprisoned in the illusion of they have like 3 different class features on Hunter's Mark and that doesn't sound like the best idea

[humble cairn]

Free your mind, friend. At the level at which HM is useful, the free casts actually are great. After that HM doesn't actually matter much and you can ignore it and the class still does better than fine.

[feral fulcrum]

Well, some of the subclasses can ignore it

[atomic kayak]

Also, HM is still way more an actively useful feature than the features it replaced from the 2014 ranger

[humble cairn]

So far only Winter Walker has a really major feature built into it.

[atomic kayak]

And only like. 1 subclass actually cares about HM

[feral fulcrum]

Don't UA's like Winter Walker and the Spooky Ranger require it to be used to activate their features?

[hollow stone]

it is true

[humble cairn]

Winter Walker is no longer a UA.

[atomic kayak]

Beastmaster has a ribbon, as does Hunter. The others don't have anything to do with HM

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah Hollow Warden also was activated by HM usage

[atomic kayak]

Both Favored Enemy and Favored Terrain took up a lot more feature levels while also doing next to nothing (Favored enemy was the even bigger issue)

[feral fulcrum]

It's a trend I don't care for

[hollow stone]

i just feel overincentivized to use HM when something like half of the ranger spell list takes Concentration

[atomic kayak]

Its hardly a trend

[humble cairn]

I play Beast Master. I have used HM once before the companion got to benefit from it and once after. It's okay. I have better options, but in those specific situations those other options would have performed less well. HM is a situational spell, it's not meant to be the solution to everything. It does it's single niche thing well, but trying to shoehorn it into every combat situation is super silly.

[feral fulcrum]

Espeically if they're tying the duration of the Subclass transformation/effects to the duration of HM like Hollow Warden does

[humble cairn]

Don't you mean under incentivized?

[feral fulcrum]

Your subclass turning off because you lost concentration on a mandatory spell is disgusting

[paper portal]

yeah i rly dont like how they did that

[atomic kayak]

Youve got 2 ribbon features on PHB subs that interact with HM (which on the base class, still isnt actually bad. The thing that makes it good is how many free casts you get. Its actually absurd how often you can cast it) and then 2 subs (one of which isn't even out of UA)

[atomic kayak]

Wildshape.jpeg

It being a spell or not is largely irrelevant, its the same concept

[hollow stone]

no, i mean there are too many treats in HM for me to want to use anything else or not already be using HM by the time anything that isn't HM would be useful

[humble cairn]

I'm telling you from actual play, I do not feel urged to use HM because Ranger has so many other tools for different situations. I almost have too many tools that I'm getting a bit of paralysis trying to swap spells out at Long Rests.

[atomic kayak]

Hunters Mark is being treated like how Innate Sorcery should be treated

With variation

[atomic kayak]

Yea, and the fact that you get so many free casts of HM means you can just drop it and recast it later if there is something better that you want to do

[humble cairn]

Hunter's Mark is useful for single target attack damage and solely for that. Are you saying that your entire role in your party at all times is single target attack damage? Because that is absolutely not true of my Ranger.

[feral fulcrum]

Wildshape 90% of the time is entirely optional part of the core class, is kind of bad in general, and I don't think any of the subclasses care about actually transforming via it outside of like, two. So, not exactly a good case.

[umbral girder]

I find it fascinating how Ranger is one of the “Does better in long adventuring days” classes. Not from regaining stuff on a short rest, but because their abilities last a long time.

[atomic kayak]

Many other subclasses utilize wildshape charges to use their features

[hollow stone]

yea while i was playing it i was pretty much just walking around trying to burst down one particular guy as fast as possible with Colossus Slayer and Hunter's Mark

[atomic kayak]

A number of which are on similarly arbitrary "timers" as casting a concentration spell

[humble cairn]

My Ranger is most often casting some sort of Control spell like Entangle to shift the odds in our favor. At other times when I do want attack damage, but I want the choice to be able to spread it out, I Summon Fey, because I can have the summons attack more than one target, usually for more added damage than what HM would have given over my entire turn.

[hollow stone]

oh wait that example is invalid, that game is 2014

[feral fulcrum]

Charges, yes. Charges don't care if you're actually Wild Shaped or not. They're charges, a resource.

[atomic kayak]

This is the important part

[hollow stone]

i need to find more 2024 games, man, i'm in two 2014 games and 1 2024 and i need more

[atomic kayak]

Its very literally the same concept as HM

[humble cairn]

Treating a Ranger like a Fighter is wasting all the other tools you have.

Rangers are Experts, Rangers have Support/Control/Utility spells. They can do so much!

And they are still good at attacking with weapons.

[feral fulcrum]

Notably, even Druid's alternate transformations via Wild-Shape, such as Constellation Druid, last I checked, don't eat concentration, nor end if you take damage and fail a concentration check.

[humble cairn]

I haven't played Hunter, which admittedly is the most martial heavy Ranger, but still. You have a whole spell list you can access.

[feral fulcrum]

And can do things, like...concetrate on better spells, while maintaining their subclass

[atomic kayak]

Anyway.

Fewer gishes should have cantrip Extra Attack. And Casting mod attacks. Among other things

[crimson gulch]

Hunter ranger works great

[humble cairn]

I bet they do!

[small heath]

Chat, what would be more 'fun':
Bardladin or Bardlock

[feral fulcrum]

Depends on how much you like Invocations

[humble cairn]

The answer, as for many things, is that it depends.

[hollow stone]

yea no i'm gonna temporarily suspend my opinions until i can find a 2024 game

[small heath]

Thematically, it's a kpop demon hunters inspired build

[hollow stone]

Pact Of The Blade Paladin is a little funny because you can dump STR

[crimson gulch]

the game runs great with the new handbooks, im up to about 550 sessions with the 2024 phb on the table

[feral fulcrum]

I mean that's not new?

Dexadins are not exactly uncommon

[humble cairn]

I suggest not adding Bard. Do monoclass Bladelock and take a Performance proficiency.

[hollow stone]

no, not DEXadin. CHAladin

[feral fulcrum]

Being able to use Charisma as an attack stat does make it way less MAD though

[woven flint]

Or be a Valor Bard

[atomic kayak]

Really I think the only full caster gishes that should get casting mod attacks is warlock. Nobody else should get it

[small heath]

I am in a few 2024 games but they're full rn 😭

[feral fulcrum]

I know, but Str Paladins are not exactly the most common.

[atomic kayak]

That includes stuff like the bards and bladesinger

[feral fulcrum]

Mostly because Strength is barely touched mechanically

[still plover]

Are they not?

[humble cairn]

I played Paladin once. Str 22.

[crimson gulch]

Str paladins are the most common by far

[atomic kayak]

Str paladins are so common 😭 they are also quite literally the default.

Don't let small parts of the online community fool you

[umbral girder]

I’ve seen way more strength paladins be common

[woven flint]

Yeah, every paladin I've seen and played have been Strength Paladins

[feral fulcrum]

Shrugs

[umbral girder]

I think i have only had a single dex paladin at my games ever.

He died to a lich

[crimson gulch]

they need the STR to multiclass too, its a huge part of it

[hollow stone]

eh, i'm already at a lack for time, i'll just finish out one of my 2014 campaigns

[atomic kayak]

Like yea dex paladins can be common. In a small subset of the community

[woven flint]

Jabal wasn't a Dexadin, he just used Gauntlets of Ogre Strength due to his poor stat rolls lol

[feral fulcrum]

Isn't that only for Multiclassing into it rather then out of it?

[umbral girder]

Ah that’s right.

[crimson gulch]

no you need it either way

[small heath]

I don't think i've seen a Dexadin

[umbral girder]

It’s both ways

You need to match your own classes and the targeted class’ multiclass minimums.

It’s why something like Monk + Paladin is extra crazy because you need a 13 in 4 different stats that are not Con.

[feral fulcrum]

It's a general pain to multiclass with Paladin in the best of circumstances,

[atomic kayak]

Note: magic items also don't fulfill those requirements

[feral fulcrum]

Because they're Stat hungry

[hollow stone]

i nearly got to run a Ranger Monk in a 2014 game, but we restarted the campaign before we got there

[paper portal]

they wouldnt be stat hungry if you didnt need str to multiclass tbh

[humble cairn]

But they do, so they are?

[woven flint]

Real chads don't need to multiclass 😎

[umbral girder]

You need both Strength and Charisma to Multiclass with Paladin yep.

[feral fulcrum]

They need to Gestalt

[umbral girder]

Paladins, Monks, and I think Rangers require two stats instead of one for Multiclassing

[humble cairn]

I don't respect the sanctity of the separate class identities, I just like making characters that do things how I want them to.

[woven flint]

Nah, Monoclass for life 😎

[hollow stone]

it was gonna be crazy tho, with a Spear i could attack with DEX and BA DEX Unarmed Strike to proc HM like 3 times in one turn

[umbral girder]

Monoclass is something I heavily prefer too yeah

[humble cairn]

But I do also advocate monoclassing, because something like 80% of the character concepts that come across #character-discussion work better as monoclass.

[feral fulcrum]

I'm still considering Multi-classing out of Wizard once I hit level 17 because the last 3 levels are...pretty crap in 2014

[umbral girder]

Just 6 more spells and it’s capstones yeah

[paper portal]

wizard has insanely good capstones what

[umbral girder]

And I think an ASI/feat?

[feral fulcrum]

Not with single (Major) encounter days, which my DM does.

[paper portal]

unlimited shield casts

[hollow stone]

i was also a Grung, which would be a CON save on every attack and the potential for 4d4 Poison and Poisoned condition

[tough lynx]

The level 18 feature is great. Infinite cast shield

[paper portal]

whats even the point of single encounter days when you have wish lmao

[hidden spindle]

Spell Mastery is good for casting Unseen Servants or Floating Disks

[woven flint]

That 33% chance you have to lose wish after casting it

[tough lynx]

It’s better for shield

[paper portal]

thats why you dont use the effect that does that :3

[hidden spindle]

To each their own

[woven flint]

Each time

[feral fulcrum]

I think you're forgetting that unless you're just copying an existing spell from a classes list, of 8th level or lower, 33% gamba to permanetly lose Wish

[woven flint]

Nah, I'd use wish for fun shit

[paper portal]

im not forgetting that

[feral fulcrum]

So you can't just Infinitely Win Forever by saying "I wish for you to go bye bye, lol"

[tough lynx]

Only if you do the open ended option. Which is worse

[paper portal]

yeah 9th level slots trivialise anything

[tough lynx]

Why would we do that when there are more efficient options?

True Polymorph is better than wish anyway

[feral fulcrum]

Behold 3 ancient greatwyrms and assorted threats, that Ninth Level Spell slot isn't an instant win.

[hollow stone]

i remember an old exploit to clone infinite Simulacrums to Wish for the rubies needed to cast Simulacrum and continuously mint more Simulacrums and use the spares that don't incur Wish stress to cast Wish for whatever else

[tough lynx]

Yeah I agree a 5th level is an instant win

Well 5th and a fourth

[feral fulcrum]

rolls eyes

[tough lynx]

500 ft movement

[woven flint]

No offense, but if a 9th level spell slot trivializes your entire encounter, you're either
Incredibly bad at encounter balancing
Or..
You're lying to yourself
Because at 20th level you should be fighting beings of comparable power.

[paper portal]

hey most players arent on the same kinda stuff you are lol it might take them a level 7 slot instead

[crimson gulch]

a 9th level spell can trivialize one encounter in a day, i have 10 more

[hidden spindle]

Imagining saying to wink them out of existance but it winks the Wizard out of existence instead...

[tough lynx]

Anything with less than 500ft move speed is a cake walk

[paper portal]

yeah thats what i was saying too

[hollow stone]

yea high level encounters are famously hard to balance because the average 1v1 is like, 20 trillion tarasques

[tough lynx]

I do 30+at level 7

[paper portal]

one encounter days in tier 4 are always gonna be really easy cus nothing can really deal with that many high level slots getting thrown at it

[kind torrent]

Average wizard player

[crimson gulch]

my usual adventuring day is 3 sessions with 3 to 4 combats each

[tough lynx]

That honestly sounds quite fun

[feral fulcrum]

Anyone that defaults to using multiple tarrasques A: Only has the MOnster Manual B: Is Inept, or C: Has yet to realize that the Tarrasque suck diddly ucks in 2014.

Not sure if it's better in 2024

[crimson gulch]

no they arent, the exp budget works great

[tough lynx]

Yeah it’s easy to kill at level like 5 I think? Maybe before

[hollow stone]

i was massively exaggerating.

[woven flint]

Tier 4 is when you throw shit at the party like Demon Lords and Archdevils, give them relentless assaults to where they have to drain themselves

Yeet Asmodeus at them
Do it.
Throw Asmodeus right in front if them

[paper portal]

tbh if you know how to use them even 5th level slots kinda trivialise the game but thats an optimizer moment

[umbral girder]

Wish for a teleport/planeshift to Waterdeep, now they can’t get you due to being Dragons /jk

[split basin]

Hey guys, got a question, any book recommendations that expand on the monks? I have the 2024 player handbook, planning to buy a book that expand on monks, if not, I'll probably buy monster manual

[woven flint]

Have Asmodeus summon Zariel and literally anyone else

[tough lynx]

I’ve seen people fight 3 zariels in bgdia

Level 13 I believe

[feral fulcrum]

My group is only level 15 but we're at the point where we're almost certainly going to have to tango with Zariel and assorted Devils sooner or later.

[paper portal]

haen or sil i assume lol

[tough lynx]

Haen was, lamp and cell were there too

[crimson gulch]

if a dm cant kill a level 13 party with 3 zarials, they are pulling punches

[paper portal]

its always one of them

[paper portal]

or the players are just really optimized

[light cape]

yo wsg gang

[tough lynx]

I disagree but that’s okay

[umbral girder]

Yep pretty much

[feral fulcrum]

I question what lead to fighting 3 named NPC's

[umbral girder]

She is stupid strong on her own

[paper portal]

yeah ive seen these people theyre desperately trying to find something that can actually kill haen

[lavish flame]

nah there's no way to disagree with that, 1 zariel is enough to kill a level 13 party, it almost happened to my party

[light cape]

what is zariels cr?

[lavish flame]

26

[crimson gulch]

26

[hollow estuary]

If ai had a way to perform somantic components do you think it could cast a cantrip? (Assume it's one of the more advanced models)

[umbral girder]

26

[paper portal]

there absolutely is if the players are good enough

[tough lynx]

1 twi/x undead/ 1 dss moment

[paper portal]

the people wizard is talking about are the best optimizers we have it doesnt surprise me at all that they can beat triple zariel at level 13

[umbral girder]

And? That wouldn’t help.

[paper portal]

i assume that was part of another 30+ encounter day too tbh otherwise it would be too easy

[tough lynx]

IIRC they also fought 226 vecnas in eor

Killed rhem all round 1

[hollow estuary]

I like this wizard guy

[paper portal]

they what

[paper portal]

yeah we love wizard she's cool as hell

[tough lynx]

Yeah

[woven flint]

I'm calling bullshit

[light cape]

i have a concept for a campaign where should i ask for advice for that?

[woven flint]

Incredibly outlandish claim imho.

[crimson gulch]

everytime i hear these storys its like ah yes, Softball dnd where the dm dosent challange folks

[paper portal]

ngl idk how they pulled that off either but knowing these ppl its not that surprising

[hollow estuary]

Yeah vecna is EASY as hell.

Dude you only need two hundred damage a round. And he doesn't have legendary actions 😭 😭

[lavish flame]

im not even certain there is an effect that could harm 226 enemies at once

[umbral girder]

Especially since Vecna hard counters Undead and Twilight with his basic attack.

[feral fulcrum]

Yeah this is sounding like the guys you see on reddit claiming to have tottaly killed insert CR 30 thing here At level 1, with a box of scraps, in a cave

[hollow estuary]

Not even worth fighting unless he has the book

[woven flint]

I'd be surprised if they weren't lying out their ass just to sound impressive.

[atomic kayak]

Based on what ive heard, theres a number of "not RAW RAW" included in these claims

[paper portal]

sil has a whole collection of ways to blow things up nobody else has even thought of

[crimson gulch]

yep, like the guy the other day that said they cheated in the Planescape casino with mage hand, a dm running a game with no consequenses or challange

[light cape]

hey did you guys see my question earlier?

[woven flint]

That was a Haen claim if you'd believe it.

[paper portal]

yeah to be fair a lot of the stuff sil uses ends up banned afterwards because it's too broken lol

[crimson gulch]

no, i dont remember their name

[paper portal]

haen pretty regularly does stuff on that level of difficulty yeah

[lavish flame]

Depends on the question, but both #dm-discussion and #dm-world-building are the places to go for prep and planning a game

[light cape]

ok thanks gwyn

[kind torrent]

omg is that the Lord of Cinder

[loud tendon]

Probably #dm-world-building

[paper portal]

thing is zariel only has 150 movespeed so i assume the fight wouldve been indoors to avoid kiting

[loud tendon]

Or #dm-discussion

[woven flint]

And I'm saying that I don't believe them as a reputable source at all, ever. a singular day in my life.

[tough lynx]

Legendary action move speed

[lavish flame]

that was back in my college years, ive moved on since

[tough lynx]

Wall of force was used iirc

[atomic kayak]

Easiest examples being stuff involving DotBV to grab things from other worlds like Strixhaven or elsewhere.

Reliant on the DM softballing into giving you the required M component

[kind torrent]

I feel like half these strats can just be shut down if the DM isn't kind

[umbral girder]

Legendary action teleport

[paper portal]

ig yea, that makes her action economy rly suck but it does let her do something

[umbral girder]

She doesn’t have a movement LA

Last I checked

[paper portal]

like i said these were done in situations where the dm is really trying to find ways to kill them, thats why there were 3 zariels in the first place

[hollow estuary]

It's so easy to beat vecna.

Buckets of lava. Catapult spell. Action surge. Catapult spell.

No legendary actions to teleport out. Not immune to fire. That's two hundo damage

[tough lynx]

That’s easier then

[atomic kayak]

Oh no not even a matter of being kind or not. Just enforcing the actual rules

[tough lynx]

Sleet storm should solo

[umbral girder]

He has a legendary reaction to teleport out. 3 of them.

[paper portal]

sleet storm moment

[atomic kayak]

"Bucket of lava"

[hollow estuary]

Lava isent a saving throw

[kind torrent]

That's what I'm thinkin yeah

[woven flint]

She has immolatong gaze and a Teleport 👍

[tough lynx]

not raw but it is funny

[paper portal]

minecraft physics lol

[atomic kayak]

Lava isnt something you can just get buckets of lol

[umbral girder]

Doesn’t need to be a saving throw to teleport out

[hollow estuary]

Bag of holding of lava

[atomic kayak]

It also doesnt do that damage anyway

[lavish flame]

idk about a bucket of molten rock remaining in the weight range of Catapult

[atomic kayak]

Indeed

[hollow estuary]

It does 16d10 damage or insta kills if we use tomb of horrors lava Lol

[woven flint]

Everyday i lose more and more hope

[atomic kayak]

Thats for being submerged in lava

[paper portal]

yeah wizard do you know how they actually did beat all those vecnas cus it wasnt with whatever this lava shenanigans is lol

[woven flint]

I'm resetting the universe, man!!!

[umbral girder]

Btw I’m amused Vecna’s Rotten Fate is just his version of Finger of Death

[hollow estuary]

Sure tell me

[paper portal]

nah idk thats why im asking her but i think she dipped

[hollow estuary]

Lol.

No like the lava trap in the tomb of horrors is a instant kill without a damage type 😭

[paper portal]

id assume it was some sil tech that got promptly banned afterwards but idk

[woven flint]

Vecna when.. his ruin is ruined

[woven flint]

I'd assume it's probably some dumb shenanigans that includes reading rules in bad faith to jury rig a way to kill that many Vecnas.
Or, they were all incredibly low hp clones
Or, the dm just wanted them to feel cool.

[paper portal]

nah this wouldnt be a rp based campaign they do it entirely for the combat

so definitely not the last two and knowing these people not the first either

[crimson gulch]

D: A &C

[paper portal]

hi again wizard :3

tbh i think its copium that the moment you hear about people doing something at a high level your immediate assumption is that theyre somehow "cheating" and not just really good at what they do

[tough lynx]

True Polly a (I cannot remember the name at this moment) creature that summons wraiths and then use time dragons I believe to go back in time put the thing there and then go forward in time to the fight and have 10x10^9 wraiths

[paper portal]

oh they had 9th level slots yeah ok thats pretty reasonable

i thought this was also like a level 10 thing lol

[tough lynx]

Nah eor is level 20

[hollow estuary]

Also if you get a open hand monk and barbarian friend + a sorcerer to quickly shave down his legendary resistances. Things get funny fast

[paper portal]

you never know with these people 😭

224 vecnas in one turn did seem insane even to me though lol so 9th level slots makes a lot of sense

[near brook]

Hello.

[paper portal]

welcome new member

[lavish flame]

what the hell do you mean "use time dragons" plural, you have multiple ancient time dragons at your disposal?

[paper portal]

yeah the whole party is wizards and locks probs

[tough lynx]

Yes I do

[woven flint]

Yeah, interesting factoid....I don't think that's how ANY of that shit works 😭

[hollow estuary]

Are you the person talking about how 224 vecnas are slain?

[hollow stone]

this reminds me of that one terrible homebrew item that's like "summon any undead creature, but you can't release the device until you expend all of its charges" and it didn't have charges

[paper portal]

i mean id ask you to find a part that breaks the rules but yeah her description is pretty vague lol

sounds pretty normal to me though

[tough lynx]

It’s raw but like… that doesn’t mean I’d allow it

[feral fulcrum]

I wasn't aware Time Dragons were even a thing in 5e

[umbral girder]

Planescape

[hollow estuary]

I mean with level 9 spell slots you can just cast invulnerability and gain 100 rounds of no damage whatsoever to you or an ally

[umbral girder]

And only the Cr26 ones can time travel

[woven flint]

Firstly
You can't true Polymorph into an Ancient Time Dragon because it's CR 26.
Unless that's not what they meant

[tall pelican]

Has anyone played in / dmed any level 20 play?

[near brook]

Can anyone help me with my character creation?
I am a DM, and some of my character's backstories need them to be in some subclasses that aren't in the free section of DnD beyond.
I cannot buy the books.

[paper portal]

in the PotA thing im gonna allow everything thats not like infinite but to be fair thats why im keeping them at 4th level slots lol

[umbral girder]

Further more the Polymorphed ones die for attempting time travel due to Maruts

[hollow stone]

Maruts?

[umbral girder]

Super beings of order

[tough lynx]

Meyowwa go sleep

[tall pelican]

If you don't have what you need free on DND beyond and can't buy the books see if your local library has any sourcebooks and do it on paper

[tough lynx]

It’s 3 am lul

[umbral girder]

Fun fact those Maruts negate AC and always hit.

[paper portal]

no i dont wanna let ppl be slandering optimization in chat >:(

[near brook]

Thanks.

[hollow estuary]

Holy your a genius. Polymorph. You can turn vecna into a frog and put the frog into a bag of holding with 500 pounds of straight lava 🤑

[paper portal]

not how either of those things work lol

[umbral girder]

He breaks out immediately still.

[woven flint]

I'm slandering it because this "optimization" sounds like complete bullshit, no offense

[hollow estuary]

Do it again!!!

[umbral girder]

Polymorph being damage breaks the transformation and returns to OG form

[paper portal]

you polymorph yourself and preferably your summons cus a lot of creatures have busted abilities you can abuse really easily

[umbral girder]

Also Dread Counter spell

[tough lynx]

None taken 5e optimisation is highly counterintuitive.

[paper portal]

it does involve a fair bit of shenanigans but its all RAW, thats why you also see a lot of stuff at a slightly lower op level so people can use normal rules lol

[lavish flame]

Jeez, 200 counterspells is basically impossible to beat

[hollow estuary]

Vecnas intelligence is +4 I'm not scared of a d20+4 check against my spell save dc

[tough lynx]

It is all raw but I don’t take it into consideration tbh

[hidden spindle]

It would break because ghe Bag of Holding carrying more than 500 lbs...

[umbral girder]

It’s not against save dc

[paper portal]

also not how polymorph works lol

[tough lynx]

I like playing slightly below this though it would be fun to do this

[umbral girder]

Its 10+ spell level

Also he has 3 of them.

[hollow estuary]

So 50% chance he fails

[hollow stone]

i feel like a wiser choice is to conjure something like an Ape and have it charge Vecna with two bags of holding, then put one bag of holding in the other one, then let the Celestials deal with him

[paper portal]

yeah i definitely wanna do some stuff at the highest op level although the stuff they get up to in tier 3+ is beyond me lol

[umbral girder]

Also he auto counters 4th level and lower spells

No dice roll needed.

Also it’s free damage for him

[hidden spindle]

Martial: What's Counterspell? Pah-pah

[woven flint]

You're telling me there were 200-something Vecnas
None were in counterspell range.
Or, none of them used any legendary actions to try and close the distance
Or rolled higher than that party and DIDN'T instakill them with pure numbers?

How do you expect me not to think that sounds like spreading falsehoods?

[umbral girder]

Gots his own Hellish rebuke ability that also teleports him too

[hidden spindle]

That's against the rules

[tough lynx]

I love summon greater deamon especially cast pre combat

[tough lynx]

This was before combat and they surprised him iirc

[paper portal]

least broken surprise moment

even at level 20 pwt is carrying

[woven flint]

I hate to be an ass, but I'm not believing it.
I won't believe it until it's simulated RIGHT in front of me.

[umbral girder]

Surprise doesn’t stop them from using those

[tough lynx]

Yeah but no spells were cast

[hollow stone]

Martials should have Counterspell, it's funny

[paper portal]

i mean bbf is happening soon so you can probably see sil beat a campaign like 5 times over without a lr

[umbral girder]

4th edition moment

[paper portal]

knowing sil the dm is gonna give up before he dies lol

[woven flint]

You just claimed true polymorph was casted.
That's an inconsistency in the story.

[tough lynx]

Round 40

[tough lynx]

It was cast before combat

I see no inconsistencies

[paper portal]

has lamp confirmed thats when he's giving up

[tough lynx]

Nope just seems like a funny number

[woven flint]

I'm going to stop interacting with the idea.

[paper portal]

honestly i dont see him doing 40 but you never know

snusket op

[umbral girder]

Gotta stop feeding the trolls. Block them and move on.

[tough lynx]

I don’t see how we don’t get above 50

[woven flint]

Nothing but respect for you, my dear friends, but seeing is believing, I always say

[paper portal]

nah you could definitely super giga metagame and build a party that hard counters everything resourcelessly but like we not doing that

[tough lynx]

We can simulate it if you desperately want

[paper portal]

surely lamp will let sil play limitless ego

[hollow stone]

"seeing is believing" when i cast minor illusion

[paper portal]

speak for yourself im a lazy ass

hi elgate 👋

[tough lynx]

It doesn’t even need to be something you’ve seen

[lyric viper]

Folk, seems like some of this could be taken to PMs or your own games group chat

[woven flint]

I don't really care anymore, I'm already exhausted from the conversation, thank you, though

[tough lynx]

Okay hope you have a good day!

[lyric viper]

Might be time to move onto a new topic.

If you had to pick from modern media a character that best represented a class' concept, who'd you pick?

I feel like Geralt from witcher is actually one of the better examples for Ranger in modern media- folk aren't as familiar with Aragorn now and Ranger has moved on in concept.

[umbral girder]

Mandalorian for Ranger I’d say

[humble cairn]

Monster Slayer Ranger has something like it. It involves attacking as a Reaction to someone forcing you to make a saving throw.

[woven flint]

I was gonna ask how many of people's characters would drink coffee

[humble cairn]

Monster Slayer Ranger, for sure.

[umbral girder]

Only my Warforged character I played.

“I like to imagine I can feel something from this.”

[humble cairn]

Conjure Barrage whistling birds

[umbral girder]

What modern media would fit a warlock?

[woven flint]

I think like...
Only.. Three of mine
As much of a coffee head as I am personally

My Tortle Cleric has coffee

My Drow Warlock would probably have tried it in his time in Sigil

And
Maybe my Firbolg Bard would make coffee

[woven flint]

Magik, Sword lady who's a Mutant but also got her power from demonic beings as well, I believe

[umbral girder]

Fair enough

Wiccan from Marvel is a clear Sorcerer.

[lavish flame]

Best I got is Ghostrider and The Hood from Marvel

[umbral girder]

Other could be Moon Knight

[lyric viper]

I was gonna say magical girls like madoka, but not sure if that's recent enough media.

[umbral girder]

A lot of Warlocks in marvel

Even Scarlet Witch could be a Sorlock

[lyric viper]

Poison Ivy for Druid.

[umbral girder]

Absolutely!

[light cape]

have you guys read the invincible comics?

[umbral girder]

James Bond isn’t recent so I can’t say him for a Rogue.

[woven flint]

Swamp Thing is my favorite Druid 🔥

[lavish flame]

Madoka Magica is so recent wym

Oh dear god 2011 was 15 years ago

[umbral girder]

The ancient text

[lyric viper]

James bond as a rogue is nice choice.

[woven flint]

A lot of people wanna say Batman is a Rogue or Monk

But I'm here to say
That he's a Fighter that uses the unarmed fighting style and has the Skilled Epic Boon 🧐

[umbral girder]

I was gonna say John Wick but that man is way more of a Fighter than a Rogue

[still plover]

Reylana, constantly. De Vor, not fussed. Mani would complain it didn't have enough booze in it. Nyla would turn her nose up and offer a cup of acorn tea.

[light cape]

ohhh god madoka magika was 15 years ago???? im old

[umbral girder]

Shang Chi for Monk

I know he has been around for a while but he has been almost never used till recently

[lyric viper]

Batman for artificer? Hmm... Nah.

Iron Man Artificer for sure.

[woven flint]

Giorno Giovanna is a Druid

[hollow stone]

yea Batman is a fighter, Robin (Nightwing) is a rogue

[umbral girder]

Yeah Batman pays someone else to make his gadgets.

[light cape]

technically the symbiotes from marvel are all sorcerer gods

or green lantern

[umbral girder]

Green Lanterns got the vibes of Paladin (even have an Oath to follow) but the powers of Warlocks

[woven flint]

I could see The Lantern Corp being Warlocks.
They get their rings from greater powers
But Paladin also works

[umbral girder]

Xenk Yendar feels like he maybe could be a Paladin /jk

[woven flint]

Flash is a Monk
...
Purely because of speed

[hollow stone]

you know what? where did the Wizards go? where are the wizards in modern media? why is every magic some form of blessing and not just being smart?

[feral fulcrum]

Depends on the Batman, and the Gadget.

[umbral girder]

Dr Strange moment

[minor cargo]

Haha, I actually did play an Iron Man Artificer, back in 3.5E when I had a lot more options. He was "AdaMan" and he'd crash through ceilings and say "It's AdaMan Time."

Full plate made of mithril with "calling". Wand holsters in the wrists with a special "push back" kind of magic missile. Boots of flying, of course. It was pretty great.

Our other "Avengers/Justice League" characters were a cleric as our "Superman" (could really do anything) and a Psion as our "Wonderwoman" (could also pretty much do anything, but with a focus on hitting people super hard).

[still plover]

Dresden Files?

[hollow stone]

it is true.

[woven flint]

We all know that Doctor Strange is actually a Warlock

Sorcerer Supreme my ass!

[light cape]

ya he is a warlock

[lyric viper]

I might have to ban you for that pun alone. That feels like a hostile act. I have taken damage. /j

[stoic haven]

Mornin y'all

[hollow stone]

of course AdaMan doesn't even use adamantine armor lol

[lyric viper]

What a mithed pun.

[woven flint]

What class do we think Bugs Bunny would be? 🤔

Bard? Right???

[still plover]

I feel it's that last bit. You could improvise it, but someone else has done the work on the formula, figured out the kinks, optimised the energy flows.

[hollow stone]

yea he's a bard. too much tomfoolery.

[crimson gulch]

Illusionist wizard

[light cape]

yes exactly

[umbral girder]

Creation bard

[lyric viper]

Bugs gets to use the old College of Satire UA

[umbral girder]

Because what he makes is very real

[hollow stone]

or a Warlock with Mask Of Many Faces and Beguiling Influence

[woven flint]

Yeah, Bugs MUST be a bard, we've all seen how over performative he can be

[light cape]

how do you think raven would be?

or miles morales?

raven would be a sorcerer right?

[lyric viper]

Or warlock, but sorc fits too

[woven flint]

Raven from Teen Titans?

She's a Sorcerer

She gets her power from her Heritage...
If I'm not mistaken?

[light cape]

yes she gets her powers from her parents i think im not positive tho

[umbral girder]

Her very evil dad specifically

[feral fulcrum]

Well, It's part her demon heritage, and part the magic of the people who sheltered her I think?

Probably depends on the comic lore you draw from. It only retcons itself every five years or so

[umbral girder]

The spider-men got too much going on for D&D classes

[light cape]

what about the hulk?

[umbral girder]

Barbarian.

[feral fulcrum]

Hulk is just Barbarian

He's big, he's strong, he's angry. Not exactly much going on there

[hollow stone]

i think they're Monks, right?

[umbral girder]

The rage is Bruce’s anger issues that manifested as the Hulk part of his brain.

[light cape]

thor?

[umbral girder]

Cleric

Tempest cleric. Literally the power of the gods

[stoic haven]

Monk/Barbarian for Spiderman?

or more techy like artificer

[woven flint]

Probably just Monk.
Peter doesn't get his powers from Anger and he's rather well-adjusted .. most of the time

[umbral girder]

The. You got Miles sorcery and Peter’s warlock bond with Symbiotes.

Or how they all draw magical power from the Web of Life too

Spider-Men have too much going on.

[woven flint]

"I want that spider-man! He's a menace!'

[umbral girder]

Druid right there.

[woven flint]

Man-Spider is the best spider-man

[umbral girder]

Like I said, too much going on

[umbral girder]

Spider-Ma’am would probably be the most Monk of the different versions.
(It’s Aunt May who got bit)

[feral fulcrum]

Exscuse me, spider-pig is right there.

[stoic haven]

Dathomiran-spider, great character (not Marvel)

[umbral girder]

No tech, no magic, just flipping and punching. Spider-Ma’am is a monk.

[hollow stone]

i wanna see Man Bat do more things in anything tbh

[feral fulcrum]

That reminds me, who was the guy who turned himself, and others, into dinosuars?

[umbral girder]

Not even investigative skills like a Rogue. She just gots the Monk going on.

[woven flint]

There's this Pathfinder species called Anadi.
They're giant spiders
They use a mix of Transmutation and Illusion magic to take human-like forms because they dislike scaring people and want to appear friendly.. because they are friendly lol

[hollow stone]

i'm definitely wrong but i think his name was literally Doctor Saurus

[umbral girder]

I’m trying my best to keep this D&D

Fighting for my life in here

[woven flint]

"I don't want to cure cancer! I want to make DINOSAURS!" guy?

He's so unhinged! I love him.

[hollow stone]

let Druids wildshape other people so i can make people into dinosaurs

[woven flint]

...
Polymorph.
It's on the Druid spell list 😭

[paper portal]

i see that panel get posted a bunch but i dont rly read comics lol

[hollow stone]

Polymorph can be dispelled, i want to Druidshape people into dinosaurs!

[woven flint]

Believe it or not..
You're not always fighting people that can dispel magic

Yes! That guy!

[hollow stone]

it is true.

[feral fulcrum]

Yeh.

[feral fulcrum]

Wildshape is also something that can be dispelled.

[hollow stone]

oh, that sucks

[woven flint]

With Moonbeam!!!!

[feral fulcrum]

If you want to permanently turn people into something else, you use True Polymorph

[still plover]

Doctor Dinosaur?

[hollow stone]

oh my god wait that would be such a funny BBEG, the entire plot revolves around some guy manufacturing scrolls of True Polymorph to turn people into dinosaurs

the party's first major ordeal is when they discover an entire town where every building has 1d12 velociraptors in it

or 2d12kl1 for a more accurate population

is there a smaller one? i couldn't think of a smaller one

maybe a Goliath village?

deinosuchus?

yea, every building has 2d12kl1 deinonychuses in it

the funniest aspect is just waiting for how long it takes them to catch on

[small heath]

iirc there is a specific subclass from a 3rd party content that is literally spiderman

I want to say it's a ranger thing

[humble cairn]

This could be Koa if he were evil ... actually, it wouldn't take a whole lot to make him want to turn everyone into dinosaurs.

[small heath]

ranger or warlock I can't recall

[humble cairn]

Rogue.

[small heath]

Was it rogue?

[humble cairn]

It's a rogue subclass.

[grizzled jewel]

Need alittle help me and my buddy are looking for a D&D session do we both need to make a separate submission to #looking-for-players or can I do one for both of us?

[small heath]

I remember briefly seeing it when I was exploring my list of available subclasses I have.

[hollow stone]

"i have decided that the entire human population no longer deserves to exist, but murder is unethical, so i am turning everyone into dinosaurs."

[humble cairn]

I think it's from Valda's.

[humble cairn]

His Flaw is "animals are better than people."

[west smelt]

Hi guys, uhh I'm new here
I hope I'm welcomed 😁

[small heath]

you're not welcomed.
you're part of the family instead ❤️

[hollow stone]

oh.
yea that's actually a plausible route for him to take

[eternal hatch]

Im bored

[meager fractal]

same

[eternal hatch]

I wanna run d&d with someone

[humble cairn]

I did too much fan activities yesterday and now I'm sick. Con crud is annoying.

[eternal hatch]

Awww shucks

[grizzled jewel]

Con crud?

[humble cairn]

It's the nickname for the cold/flu/gross random something yu come home sick with after going to a fancon.

Fan Convention. Con. Con Crud

[grizzled jewel]

Ah ok

[humble cairn]

"Crud" is a word that means like something dirty and gross, usually stuck onto your shoe or something.

I don't know which parts of that you needed explained.

[grizzled jewel]

Sound like an inevitable thing when stuck in a building with hundreds to thousands of people just like school

[humble cairn]

Yeah, I even wore a mask, but meh.

[grizzled jewel]

That only does so much

If you want to be full sterile wear a hazmat suit and say you are cosplaying an SCP Field Scientist

[still plover]

Or Gordon Freeman.

[grizzled jewel]

Or the hazmat team from monster inc

[humble cairn]

1. It's Thailand, I would bake to death
2. waaaaasn't that kind of con

[grizzled jewel]

Fair enough dont that make ac or cooling units for suits like that since fur suits can get hot too

[humble cairn]

Oh that's true, but I sure as heck don't have that kind of cosplay budget, lol

[cosmic raven]

Are there extra books for D&D 5.5e or are there only the base books?

[grizzled jewel]

That i can understand

[humble cairn]

There have been books that have come out since the 2024 update.

[cosmic raven]

Which ones?

[humble cairn]

Two Faerun books for sure.

[cosmic raven]

Wait are you talking about campaign books? I’m looking for more subclasses and stuff like that, such as Xanthar’s Guide To Everything

[lavish flame]

• 5.5 Campaign Settings: Forgotten Realms: Adventures in Faerun, Forgotten Realms: Heroes of Faerun, Eberron: Forge of the Artificer, Ravenloft: The Horrors Within (Upcoming)
• 5.5 Rulebooks: Core rules, Arcana Unleashed (Upcoming)
• 5.5 Adventures: Dragon Delves, Heroes of the Borderlands, Arcana Unleashed Deadfall (Upcoming)

[humble cairn]

One of the Faerun books was for character options like subclasses, the other one was a setting book. There was also Forge of the Artificer, covering both Eberron as a setting and updating the Artificer class for 2024.

[cosmic raven]

Ok

[grizzled jewel]

I still need to find a group for me and my friend that's in CT

[cosmic raven]

Do you guys like the 2014 books better or the 2024?

[uncut zenith]

I’m a big 2024 fan. Books and system.

[humble cairn]

The books or the system?

[cosmic raven]

System I guess

[humble cairn]

Because a lot of the 2014 books are actually still current for the 2024 rules.

[grizzled jewel]

I havent tried the new 2024 system so I can't give an opinion

[lavish flame]

2024 tbh

[humble cairn]

Oh 2024 for sure.

[cosmic raven]

Ok

You would not believe how many people I know still prefer the 2014 system/books

[lavish flame]

but like yeah I still use every 2014 book I own. Itll be a cold day in hell when I stop grabbing stuff from D&D books I own

[small heath]

I have a personal preference for '24 overall

[rough basalt]

'24

[crimson gulch]

better, no, but each have their place at the table

its alll compatible with each other, no need to exclude things

[rough basalt]

'24 are my desk books '14 are my shelf books for outside the table barring exceptions, at the table everything i own is allowed

[atomic kayak]

Outside of the class variants, they are really functionally the same system overall so I can't really view them entirely separately

[umbral girder]

Heroes of Faerun, Dragon Delves, Adventures in Faerun, and Forge of the Artificer are the 5.5e books with more on the way this year!

If you want player stuff Forge of the Artificer and Heroes of Faerun have some.

[crimson gulch]

the new Faerun books have been amazing, i have a campaign running in Calimport and in the Moonshae islands right now

[cosmic raven]

The more the better

[umbral girder]

Next is the Ravenloft book coming in June

Player options and DM options

[lavish flame]

u doing any Rusting stuff?

[cosmic raven]

As in a vampire subclass/race?

[crimson gulch]

Queen F is my BBEG

[lavish flame]

that concept sounded really cool to me when I read about it

[umbral girder]

Werewolf, Vampire, Reborn, and Hexblood as well as a Frankenstein subclass for artificer and other subclasses

At least I think Dhampir is.

[uncut zenith]

Yeah the new Faerun books have been doing a better job at interesting me in FR than basically any other FR based book in 5E

[umbral girder]

We did get Dhampir in the 5.5e digital pack Asterion’s book of Hungers

[cosmic raven]

Ohhhh that sounds fun

[uncut zenith]

It may get reprinted since Astarion’s is a digital bonus. I’m sure they’ll want it in a physical book to profit off of people who don’t buy digital

[past edge]

Hey everybody how's it going

[crimson gulch]

would be nice, if its not worth printing its not worth buying

[lavish flame]

I pray to god they do this. I run on Roll20 and not having the Astarion options is wack

[umbral girder]

So far we got 4 source books and 2 adventure books for 5.5e that aren’t core rules I think released.

[cobalt owl]

Me thinking Arcana Unleashed was just a collection of UAs

[feral fulcrum]

Which isn't how UA's work

[cobalt owl]

No and the naming didn't help

[lavish flame]

i mean to some extent every book is

[feral fulcrum]

Unearthed Arcana are free playtesting materials, you're never going to find Playtest material in officially released books. Or to be more clear, you wont' find *unfinished and untested stuff.

[cobalt owl]

That

[cobalt owl]

0 is also an extent

[uncut zenith]

I mean, XGTE and TCOE were collections of UA with added DM tools

I imagine Arcana Unearthed won’t be much different

[cobalt owl]

I think the crux of it being UA UA is "playtest"

[atomic kayak]

A lot of which gets into actual product yea

[uncut zenith]

UA is playtest until it has been playtested and published

[atomic kayak]

Generally speaking, saying that a published book is a collection of UA is likely to be accurate. Especially any book that includes PC options

[cobalt owl]

Naming holds ig

[uncut zenith]

A lot of UA gets published, even if it’s in extremely different ways than when they appeared in UA. Like that Mind artificer which was published as the Scribes wizard, or the pyromantic sorcerer that was published as Wildfire Druid

[feral fulcrum]

I'd use how games are released as an example of UA and not UA, but honestly the state of the industry is that releasing something half-baked just to finish it later, (if you're lucky), at full price, is industry standard

[grizzled jewel]

What is the most played race in D&D?

[minor cargo]

Probably human, haha.

[crimson gulch]

Havining the unleashed arcana book being called that is going to confuse people with Unearthed Arcana being a thing

[grizzled jewel]

Really I would've thought tiefling or elf

[atomic kayak]

Sorta. Post... 2019 or so the majority of UA has ended up published

Before that a lot of UA never got published or anywhere near it

As in, not in any form or even really iteration

(2019 being around the start of the Tashas UA cycle)

[feral fulcrum]

People really loved V-Human

Or more specifficaly, V-Humans free feat.

[valid geyser]

I think part of that is ua becoming a hype tool for future books

[uncut zenith]

Well I know a lot of the early 5E UA definitely didn’t see the light. Namely things like Mystic, the Modern Magic UA, and the battle UA they tried to toy with

[minor cargo]

Here's the 2023 "unrolled" from D&D Beyond. It looks at the number of characters built. It's obviously not up to date anymore, but thought you might find this interesting. ✌️

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1648-2023-unrolled-a-look-back-at-a-year-of-adventure#Species

[cobalt owl]

Human fighter...

[uncut zenith]

But I feel like post XGTE they were publishing UA pretty consistently. Again, even if some subclasses got overhauls that landed them in completely different classes.

[feral fulcrum]

Most UA is indeed pretty much just advertising. Actual Playtesting is with things that end up getting posted repeatedly with tweaks

[rough basalt]

All i can really say is for eberron and FR

[feral fulcrum]

Such as the Psion

[valid geyser]

It’s been close to 3, 4 months since last UA?

[rough basalt]

the playtested stuff was published (after the needed tweaks)

[atomic kayak]

Well. Xans was 2018 lol

[atomic kayak]

Correct thats definitely a part of it

The "new" style of UA started with the Tashas cycle

[uncut zenith]

In more recent years, UA has become less about seeing if certain concepts are interesting and more about advising the consumer of things that are likely coming and asking for advice on how to fine tune it

[rough basalt]

If the trend continues "Season of Champions" id wager money is Dark Sun

[feral fulcrum]

I won't be shocked if you lose money on that.

[cobalt owl]

Thought that was too fire for current WOTC

[valid geyser]

I mean for a while most UAs were just for testing 2024 concepts. The early UAs gave us the impression of a radically different game

[atomic kayak]

Sorta

[feral fulcrum]

All the Dark Sun UA suggest otherwise.

[rough basalt]

Well the Dark Sun UA was there as well as Psion

[cobalt owl]

May not be called dark sun dark sun

[feral fulcrum]

Bright Moon

[atomic kayak]

Even the earlier 2024 UAs were mostly just variant classes at best

More heavy variants than what got printed, but still

[rough basalt]

"Champions of Athas" is my prediction

[valid geyser]

I don’t feel like the horror subclasses are coming in ravenloft tbh but I could be wrong

[atomic kayak]

Dark Sun has already been mentioned by name

[rough basalt]

The Dark Sun UA subclasses are pretty blatantly named for Dark Sun

Tho they might call it Derk San to avoid the PR

[crimson gulch]

That's where there going 100%

[valid geyser]

Yeah radically might’ve been an extreme word, but much more than we really got now. The plan was originally just for adventure cross comparability

[uncut zenith]

I think they’d make more sense in Ravenloft than in AU. Besides, we all know WOTC wants to publish books that will appeal to both DMs and players.

[rough basalt]

Ye i dont think Horror themed subs fit in a Arcane Magic themed sourcebook

If the Sorcerer-King Warlock isnt in Ravenloft I think Dark Sun will be 100% non-officially confirmed

[grizzled jewel]

Is Dhampir still a playable race?

[uncut zenith]

I’m sure in WOTC’s mind, Ravenloft needs PC options, so if there’s a book that’ll include horror subclasses, it’s… likely the horror book.

[rough basalt]

cause the only other place in dnd that has a Sorcerer-King than Dark Sun is one of the domains of dread

[crimson gulch]

After watching the garycon interviews of dan ayoub and like gygax I feel like we're getting good books coming down the pipeline

[lavish flame]

yeah

[rough basalt]

I can't wait for the Greyhawk book

[cobalt owl]

I never actually heard abt the season of champions book

[atomic kayak]

(They arent going to rename Dark Sun when its literally in the DMG)

[cobalt owl]

Wasn't on the roadmap when it came out

[rough basalt]

They're being vague about it

[lavish flame]

I fear the DMG likely has all the Greyhawk we're getting

[rough basalt]

Likely due to Dark Sun being a PR nightmare no matter what they do

[rough basalt]

WotC said they're working with Luke Gygax for a new Greyhawk book

Tho itll likely be akin to Exploring Eberron

[cobalt owl]

Thats why i thought dark sun was tok fire for thdm lol

[rough basalt]

Ye but the new people like fire

[cobalt owl]

Didn't know we had a new team

Perhaps I judged them too harshly

[feral fulcrum]

It's mostly a good thing. WOTC...desperately needed new blood

[valid geyser]

Dark sun is probably gonna be the fall book, but I think it is just kept mysterious so wotc can keep the mystique that dark sun is this forbidden edgy setting too crazy to modern eyes

[uncut zenith]

Yeah when WOTC said they had no interest in doing Dark Sun 5E, Crawford and Perkins were in charge. Who’s to say what the new boss thinks of adapting Dark Sun?

[lavish flame]

The lead designers stepped down after the 5.5 Core Books dropped, we've got new folks and thus far they haven't really missed

[rough basalt]

New boss probably said "Killing slavers and genocidal tyrants? Say no more."

[crimson gulch]

No Cynthia Williams was in charge then I think

[uncut zenith]

I’m talking as far as lead designers go

[grizzled jewel]

Good i want to try and make a dhampir Sorcer or some kinda spell caster where his spell slots are bullet he infused with magic

[crimson gulch]

My suspicion is that Crawford and Perkins would have done dark sun, but it was not flying with the executives

[valid geyser]

I think it’s just gonna be hard to make work for different reasons than it being the “gritty grim grimdark setting”. I think they’re just scared of botching its unique lore things to make it fit with multiverse stuff, as well as having to do mild social commentary like “greedy tyrants will destroy the environment for power”

Like yeah it had stuff that was rough and aged poorly today, but so did so much FR and dragonlance stuff

[rough basalt]

There was an interview in 2023 from a YTer with an executive producer at the time and apparently it was cause it was too "problematic"

But he's not in the company anymore either

Left like early-mid 2024 or so? cant remember

Think Crawford and Perkins also said roughly the same thing earlier in 5es life cycle.

[umbral girder]

So pre 5.5e

[grizzled jewel]

If yall are playing a dhampir what would yall make it feed on other then blood or how would yall go about getting around drinking human blood?

[valid geyser]

I’m aware of the explanation. I just feel like it’s not a very good one. Because of the aforementioned all settings having problematic stuff.

[rough basalt]

Ye all the people who were notably against it or saying it was unlikely are gone now

And surprise that the first UAs of content ahead without their input has Dark Sun subclasses and the Psion class

Just found something interesting out

Apparently in early 2024 the trademark for Dark Sun was cancelled.

Then in last October WotC renewed it

[cobalt owl]

• Investigation

[rough basalt]

Release the Dark Sun UA in August.
Renew the trademark for it in October.

[stable kiln]

howdy

[still plover]

Isn't there a list in the dhampir text of possible sustenance?

Aside from that, I'd go Dresden Files: blood, flesh, emotions, dreams.

[rough basalt]

Be intentionally vague about the last book of the year showing the two other UA books are gonna be printed.
Dark Sun will be a PR mess so being vague is a good decision.
A "Champion" can be a term for a hero of the people, and being a Hero in Athas would be being a hero of its people.
Champions of Athas: Dark Sun Players Guide/Trials of Athas Dungeon Masters Guide late November.

[valid geyser]

I think this is a semi unrelated statement but I think that if wotc dark sun is at least trying to keep some tones and such, that they’ll just kinda leave the slavery thing to the GM. That’s how I feel wotc wants it. They’ll probably talk about how the sorcerer kings are oppressive and stuff and life in the city states sucks, but to what degree is gonna be vague
Also if the theorized gladiatorial combat thing is right then I’m sure there’s gonna be multiple ways people would be competing in those that aren’t explicitly them being enslaved to do so

[still plover]

• caution! Check this over with your fellow players before the game! Not everyone is cool adventuring with a ghoul.

[rough basalt]

Come August when they announce the "Season of Champions" content at gencon.
I'll be all-in on Dark Sun.

[valid geyser]

I really don’t think it’s gonna be a PR issue. I think it’s more an issue of making both dark sun fans and new players happy with the book. Maybe I’m giving too much benefit of the doubt but wotc would have to do something really dumb to get people morally angry at them for this book

[rough basalt]

Oh there's gonna be angry people, it's just whether it matters or not.

It's either they anger the people who actually will buy it and it flops or they just anger social media criers who wouldn't have bought the book anyway.

[lavish flame]

I kinda figure they'll include sections on the tougher subjects and how to pirtray them like they did with Folk Horror and Cosmic Horror in Ravenloft. Like they might have a section on Slavery and a section on Cannibalism and stuff, yknow

[crimson gulch]

theres angry people regardless, the mad folks arent buying books so they arent the audience.

dont let the negativity into your tables is my advice

[hidden spindle]

You'll anger someone regardless

[rough basalt]

"Wdym there's bad stuff in my comfy dice game?!"

plays in forgotten realms

[valid geyser]

Idunno if wotc will actually publish a book over like, PG 13 rating wise, but I think there’s still probably enough room to make it grimmdark-y

[still plover]

I for one look forward to welcoming our revised Sorcerer-Kings.

[valid geyser]

Even then I won’t say dark sun is full grimdark. I know there’s sub terms but there’s still the possibility of stuff getting better, it just requires basically everyone in the world to work together

[hidden spindle]

What is wild is how graphic players get when they describe what happens when their foe reaches 0 Hit Points. That's not PG-13.

[still plover]

And if it turns out I don't like it? I'll change it, and nobody can stop me!

[rough basalt]

Yeah and that's the one reformed Sorcerer-King's goal

[crimson gulch]

yeah my tables 100% are not pg 13

[rough basalt]

Bringing the world together and defeating his former comrades

And some of the Sorcerer-Kings are more amenable.

[valid geyser]

Kinda why I said printed. What goes on at your table is out of wotc’s hands
Speaking of I can’t remember any official wotc art including blood but I can totally be wrong

[rough basalt]

They're still genocidal monsters but at least you can focus on the ones that are especially evil

Like Boros or Boris?

Borys

[valid geyser]

I think it’s borys with a y. Boros are the paladin guys from ravnica

[crimson gulch]

monster manual page 316, blood there (2024)

[valid geyser]

I also am really holding hope that wotc doesn’t make dark sun part of the explicit multiverse. I just want the one dragon, thank you

[rough basalt]

And seeing as how Calimshan still has Slavery deeprooted into its society in 1501 (current Faerun year in HoF) I doubt they have any conniptions.

[valid geyser]

There’s plausible deniability there lol. It could be red wine

[rough basalt]

Some 4kids dub censoring lol

[valid geyser]

But most likely that is blood so I can’t dispute that, even if it is in a cup

[rough basalt]

Oh no I've been slashed, all this red wine.

[crimson gulch]

look harder, its not in a cup

[valid geyser]

Oh the other vampire art

[rough basalt]

Doesn't the Ghoul art have a Ghoul ripping into flesh and eating it.

[valid geyser]

Don’t mean to reply, oops

[rough basalt]

Ye it has it biting a whole chunk out of a severed arm.

Has the muscles underneatth

[crimson gulch]

mop boy in the adventures from faerun too

[umbral girder]

I like to imagine for the years players don’t look at Dark Sun it flourishes, only everything goes wrong when we do look at it.

Kinda like how the Elder Scrolls universe has a specific star that shines so people in world know one of the games are starting to take place.

[severe herald]

Hello.

[valid geyser]

I think that’s a good point but what I remember, it was mentioned but more to just say “oh yeah songal abolished slavery btw” without really talking about the effects of that (not a bad thing, it’s just a thing they didn’t want to do as calimshan’s conflicts, rather wanting to focus on the genie Cold War) but I think it’s also kind of my semi issue of songal being a cool character who needs more depth, because I wouldn’t blame someone for thinking she’s too perfect

The new fr books wanted to bring big change, but only set it like 10 years after previous books to keep basically all the iconic characters alive. They just didn’t wanna talk about the conflicts those changes brought, which I think could’ve been cool to explore

[meager fractal]

Can't wait for 5.5 dark sun. Playing in a 4e dark sun campaign that just hit paragon tier and it's a blast

[errant crag]

I'm really curious to see how they handle it myself

[naive cedar]

Is dark sun confirmed?

[errant crag]

It's mentioned in the 2024 PHB of that means anything

[meager fractal]

Not confirmed at this point but pretty likely

[umbral girder]

Not confirmed but there is a lot of things in the UA and business side of WOTC that is heavily implying it

[rough basalt]

At this point I'd be very surprised if its not happening

[umbral girder]

And people discussing the people who said it wasn’t gonna happen all left before 5.5e was released

[rough basalt]

there's just too much stuff happening regarding it

[valid geyser]

I think it just depends on the writer they pick for it tbh

I doubt Wes Schneider is writing both ravenloft and dark sun, but he’s my best case

[rough basalt]

The UA dropping a few months after Perkins and Crawford left

Then trademark being renewed after being canceled for a year and a half a couple months after the UA drops

if they were keeping the trademark just for keeping purposes they wouldnt have waited that long to renew it I think

and the fact it happened after the people were vocally against it are all gone?

[valid geyser]

I mean wotc is still holding the gamma world trademark and I doubt that’s going anywhere

[rough basalt]

Ye but its too coincidental I think

[valid geyser]

But yeah I do think more likely than not

[rough basalt]

The people holding dark sun back and didnt renew the trademark after it was cancelled are all gone so it gets a UA then a renewal afterwards?

I'm a full believer

[small heath]

What are some of the best light armors you can get in D&D?

[rough basalt]

magic studded leather

+3 being the absolute best

[umbral girder]

Enspelled studded leather armor

[rough basalt]

Oh yeah Enspelled Studded Leather too

[umbral girder]

Depending on the spell it can get useful

[small heath]

Context: I'm a druid

especialyl planning on my next character being bard or warlock

[empty thicket]

Leather is cheap, only 10 gp
Studded give that juicy 12ac for 45gp so...

[umbral girder]

Notably Enspelled Armor is a 2024 Magic item

[empty thicket]

35gp gap sometimes is... painful

If not mage armor is always an option

[still plover]

Take starting cash, buy what you need.

[umbral girder]

Notably mage armor does not work if you wear armor since it specifies the target has to have no armor on.

[remote wadi]

Monk and Barb AC is free

[sly estuary]

Wait is there base stats that players can use if their chrac
characters fairly unique outfits?

[umbral girder]

What?

[twilit ibex]

Random PSA: Sometimes it's okay to build a slightly-less-then-optimal character. My Champion Fighter took the Chef feat because he's party Mom. Always be having fun.

[umbral girder]

K

[valid geyser]

Other player in game I’m in consistently annoys me with character building choices. They say they don’t like to build completely optimally but I think it’s different when you have a level 9 fighter with 40 hit points and uses a heavy crossbow without CBE to ignore loading. It was technically DM allowing them to control and give player stats to an NPC but I did see them work up over that character getting outright killed by a clay golem (DM decided “nah they’re not dead” but it was more to speed up the session) not what I’d call a problem yet and I feel part of me is just being a little judgy of their choices

[twilit ibex]

There's slightly-less-than-optimal, and then there is not that. People building characters with zero regard for the party is a whole other whale

[valid geyser]

Also other game I share with the guy I remember them complaining about paladins sucking when they’re not using divine smites and casting branding smite in a way that they concentrate until their next turn to use it, usually so that they lose conc on it. That’s just more a semi annoyance of them attending their weird playstyle to the class sucking

[valid geyser]

And to give them some credit they had to build the character in like, 30 minutes and rolled awful stats (forgetting that DM allowed rerolls low stats)

[empty thicket]

"free", is stat dependant and its their way to survive too
No spells, no armor at all and close range

[valid geyser]

I’d be actually a little annoyed at them if this wasn’t a side NPC they were controlling for the finale dungeon

[empty thicket]

Monk need to get close to the enemies and dont die trying it
Barb almost same and barb is most of the time a Soft tank

Figther can use any armor without problem and rogue is rogue

[remote wadi]

And that's bad? No need to buy armor, have don and doff times, worry about all your stuff getting stolen

And needing to upgrade your primary stat isn't the L people think it is

[errant crag]

My biggest PSA to Barbarian players is to, for the love of god, put on Medium Armor if it would be higher than you're Unarmored AC

[jade spade]

barbarians can have shields

also important psa imho

[errant crag]

They can have shields with unarmored Defense, and they can still rage in Medium Armor

[velvet knot]

sweet

[errant crag]

Heavy Armor is the only restricted armor type

[umbral girder]

Yep

[jade spade]

exactly! in a game I play in the barbarian is most of the time with a shield. She can tank the sun

[crimson gulch]

most barbarians in my games dont bother because they get hit every turn anyway with permanant enemy advantage from recklessness

[woven flint]

Hello, friends.

[jade spade]

hello

[atomic oriole]

Anyone having issues with content sharing?

[empty thicket]

Depend, for the concept of monk it isnt
Monk is the "I dont need stuff" class, opposite to fighter that can use anything so in some way monk need to get that "survival"
Even if he have access like rogue to disengage in the same turn even after an attack

[errant crag]

I recently played a Shifter Barbarian with Wildhunt so that enemies within 30ft couldn't benefit from Advantage against me

It was pretty huge being able to reckless attack with no downside

[still plover]

#ddb-support ?

[atomic oriole]

Yeah ive thrown in there too just wondering if its more widespread thing or just me.

[empty thicket]

But the downside is, not being able to use any weapon//armor//magic at all

that is like, 70% of some fun of the whole game

[errant crag]

Monks can use weapons

If they want to

There's a Monk subclass dedicated to broadening the types of weapons they can use as monk weapons

[fickle phoenix]

hola alguien que hable español?

[empty thicket]

"At all"
Meaning they can, but not the best thing to do most of time.
And yeah, know that subclass but that is a weird subclass that its saying "why i didnt go fighter?"

[empty thicket]

se, pero se habla ingles mas que nada por comodidad general
Yes, but we speak english for general comfort

[errant crag]

I was under the interpretation that "not able to use any weapons//armor//magic at all" meant they couldn't use any at all

[fickle phoenix]

ah, es que se muy poco ingles

[tame saffron]

One of my players just made a custom cursed item.

I find it hilarious. Whats yalls opinion?

Ring of Ducks
Wondrous Item, Common (Cursed)
No Attunement Required
This small silver band is crafted from polished silver and bears the likeness of a duck carved from onyx. The carving emits a faint, shadowy black glow.
Curse: Flockbound
Once worn, the ring clings to the wearer and resists removal.
When the wearer attempts to remove the ring, they must succeed on a DC 16 Strength (Athletics) check. On a success, the ring is removed.
On a failure, roll 1d6. The result determines how many ducks magically appear, swarming tightly around the wearer.
Duck Swarm Effect
The summoned ducks are a magical effect rather than creatures. They occupy the wearer’s space and continuously flutter, obstructing movement and focus.
The wearer has disadvantage on all attack rolls and saving throws while at least one duck remains.
The ducks do not act, take turns, or make attacks.
Each duck has:
AC 10
HP 1
They can be targeted by attacks as normal. Any successful hit destroys one duck.
The effect ends immediately when all summoned ducks are destroyed.

[empty thicket]

Nope, there is always an exception in the whole game about some thing in a class
Fighter cant use in its own class any magic but there is eldritch knight
Warlock cant use soo much martial weapons but there is Hexblade
There is always an "exception".

[errant crag]

Fighter can use magic from racial spells or origin feats like Magic Initiate but Fighter doesn't inherently give them any spells

[empty thicket]

Yep, they can, that is why i said "in its own class".

Thanks.

[errant crag]

I'm sorry I seem to be having trouble understanding the point you're ultimately making here

[tame saffron]

Can someone dm me a random cursed item i can put into my campaign? It cant kill the players. Thats the only rule.

[harsh hinge]

Try searching #homebrew for cursed item?

[tame saffron]

Oh?

[errant crag]

I like to give my players an invisible dagger that has advantage on thrown weapon attacks but if they miss they need to make an investigation check or cast detect magic to find it again

[empty thicket]

Yeah its okey, the point at the start is that classes like monk or barb dont get high AC for "Free" at all.
Monk use 2 stats for its AC and shouldnt use a lot of other stuff like weapons//armor and cant use AT ALL IN ITS CLASS, magic.
Barbarian its kinda the same in that, while other classes that have access to other stuff like Fighter who can use any kind of armor dont get a high base AC.

[tame saffron]

Thats absolutely hilarious

[errant crag]

Barbarians can at least use a shield and medium armor and a weapon with the Sap mastery like a longsword to help their AC issues if they really need to

[empty thicket]

Yep, they dont rely so hard in that "natural" defense like other classes

[lavish flame]

wait this is lit

[tame saffron]

Or save up for a manual of quickness of action.

[empty thicket]

Pffff jejejeje nice
Return weapon would be funny on that, if not place the dagger in a position and activate the return weapon and make it pierce the enemies

[tame saffron]

I have something similar to this.

Dagger of misdirection.

Throwing this dagger causes it to seek the nearest tree instead of enemy.

Using it regularly in melee its a normal +1 dagger.

[errant crag]

It's funny I always put it in an intricate box for them to find it in and most of the time they never end up getting it because they grab the box, feel something sliding around inside of it, see little scratches and gashes on the box's wooden interior, and then just close the box without ever reaching their hand inside of it or turning it upside down

Because it looks like there's nothing inside it

[vagrant otter]

Today is Trans Day of Visibility
All trans rogues have Disadvantage on Stealth checks and invisibility spells and potions don't work for us today 🥀

[umbral girder]

I still head canon that Tasha is trans

First time we meet Iggwilv (who is Tasha) it’s a dude (and a vampire) in a cave. Now Iggwilv is a well known girl boss. Some can say “retcon” I say we have a Trans queen.

[errant crag]

Trying to think of an official module to run my Hellfire Club starter set game into

Need something that is fairly easy to prep and isn't going to make me wanna cry or cancel my game over the prep

[still plover]

Checked the freebies on DDB?

[errant crag]

No, I really don't wanna use DDB if I can help it. I'm running this game in person anyways and don't have a computer I can easily bring to the table

[odd valley]

what does the hellfire club starter set take players to

[errant crag]

Well it's the Stranger Things themed starter set, and is set in "Greyhawkins"

We've been using Greyhawk as an analog for like lore and such

[odd valley]

i’m saying like what level

[errant crag]

Oh they end it at level 3

[odd valley]

you could take them into CoS skipping death house

other ideas including running like a couple of one off dungeons until you can do dotmm but idk how much more prep that would take

[errant crag]

I don't think CoS is an option as I'm currently playing in a CoS game for the first time, and that game is biweekly while mine is weekly so I will eventually catch up and spoil myself

[odd valley]

you could do a ToA run, it would make more sense but you might have to rebalance some of the earlier encounters

[errant crag]

I would like to run PotA but everybody tells me it's terrible and has a lot of overworld exploration which can be a bit of a drag

I would love to run Tomb of Annihilation

But some of my players are very new as it's a starter set game and I worry it may be too difficult

[umbral girder]

Lost Mines of Phandelvar is a great starting adventure for new players

[errant crag]

You mean like the expanded version? Phandelver and Below?

Because they're already in a starter set and will be level 3 at the end of it

[umbral girder]

The below half is ok. The Lost Mines half is still great.

They don’t tie too much together so you could have a bench mark point to see if everyone is fine continuing or not.

[errant crag]

I just think taking my level 3 players and starting them at the start of Lost Mines would be a bit of a step back

As they'd be going from 3rd level to doing 1st level content

[umbral girder]

Wouldn’t be that hard to increase the challenge. Just 1 or two more enemies can work

[errant crag]

Something I do like about the Hellfire Club starter is that it's honestly pretty tough for a starter adventure

[remote wadi]

I'll just drop in and say that Mercy Monk build is working pretty well

[errant crag]

Like the content they're doing at the start of it is much more difficult than most of LMoP in my experience

[remote wadi]

Not sure why discord dropped me all the way down here for once, but could be a blessing in disguise this time

[errant crag]

The Dungeon of Shadows is pretty crazy for a first level Dungeon. Myconid Adults, Giant Spiders, the ST Demogorgon

It really puts them through the ringer right at the start

But it also drops some serious magic items on them if they look in the right places

[odd valley]

you could also feasibly run oota but that module also needs an insane amount of prep time so i dont think you would particularly enjoy running it

[errant crag]

Yeah I really need something that won't be a huge headache to prep

[odd valley]

oh you could do witchlight

[errant crag]

I love dungeons and I love running dungeons but I also want something that can give my players the narrative and roleplay experience that they want as well, which is why I considered PotA because it has a lot of dungeons but open world stuff between those dungeons

[odd valley]

wild beyond the witchlight could work too

[umbral girder]

Yeah Princes of the Apocalypse is a good sandbox for the DM to play around with

I know because I’ve run it 3 times so far

[remote wadi]

So, anything much happening today?

[fast osprey]

Does anyone have a link for a printer friendly hireling character sheet blank?

[bronze wave]

Man I am feeling such hardcore burnout man, Ive had campaign after campaign go south or just end

[errant crag]

Was the overworld travel stuff as obnoxious as people always make it out to be? Have you ran it with 5.5e rules?

[bronze wave]

feels like its all just shitting me

[crimson gulch]

oof that sucks

[umbral girder]

Yes

[bronze wave]

ya Im rlly feelinf it when each one ends now, it is not fun and man it is rough

[umbral girder]

But the thing is I made sure to tell players there are options they can unlock to speed up the Overworld travel