dnd-discussion

[tall forge]

Ive only killed 2 ever, permanently 👍

[flint ledge]

If you're a powerful being you ought to have at least one dungeon

[jolly canyon]

Gotta hit that trippled digit by end of year

[tall forge]

In 6 years

[knotty vine]

ive only killed 12 but thats cause they dont understand your suppose to run away from the encounter

[rough basalt]

High level PCs? Disintegration traps.

[knotty vine]

not sure if its meant to be fought be meh

[crimson gulch]

of the 24 i have killed this year we have had 2 Ressurections

[dark pewter]

Of the four home tables I'm in/I run, three of them have had dragon encounters in the last three sessions

[humble cairn]

Here's a gaming concept where everything's a dungeon: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1645-everythings-a-dungeon-a-different-approach-to?srsltid=AfmBOopkD-0NxkG4IMLqgkSZ1cZF4xe87GF7v8vvIVz7V3im9Ckm-1PB

[tall forge]

Im assuming killed as in not able to be revified

[crimson gulch]

a kill is a kill even if they raise by my accounting for it

some individual players killed multiple times in one combat

[tall forge]

Oh, then like 8 times in my campaign

[flint ledge]

I've had 2

[knotty vine]

granted most die via the dead 3 revenge squad

[tall forge]

Death isnt uncommon in my combats

[jolly canyon]

I'm curious what will happen the first time I kill one of my players. Even with a revive at the ready or whatever

[knotty vine]

through a barbarian could most likely easily beat the encounter

[round bay]

Wow just realized arcane tricksters have.... Like... Level 2 spells at best at level 12

[rough basalt]

Deaths in my games have always been from instakills and finishing

[round bay]

What spells should i use

[hidden spindle]

A "Player Character" right?

[rough basalt]

stares

[tall forge]

They only need cantrips, everything else is utility or support

[jolly canyon]

I plead the 5th

[rough basalt]

Tho finishing ain't common in my games

Enemies are more likely to use the downed pc for leverage or to create openings

[jolly canyon]

Yea the few times I've ran a session there has been a few close calls but no one failed DS throws

[rough basalt]

Tho there is a scenario where an enemy will finish off almost guaranteed

[flint ledge]

One was revived, the other was not

[rough basalt]

They have a strong reason to make sure you die.

[hidden spindle]

Zombies do

[rough basalt]

Ye I've finished with Zombies

Another was Stirges

[hidden spindle]

I do hungry beasts

[rough basalt]

Why would they leave a source of blood still pumping

And them being autohit if latched on

[crimson gulch]

yeah most of my player deaths have been executions by monsters

the enemys know that anyone could get back up with a single word if they arent double tapped

[knotty vine]

Zombie are fun but im kinda sad they dont have a disease feature that spreads through bites

[flint ledge]

This far I've been having enemies simply down players and stop there while combat isn't over

[crystal latch]

I've had zero PC deaths so far

[real quarry]

Hello hello I'm new here but I like dragons and fantasy stuff so I think I'll enjoy

[jolly canyon]

Welcome 🙏

[flint ledge]

Well that's cause it's not a disease in dnd no?

[knotty vine]

Welcome to the wonderful and wacky world of dnd

[still plover]

Welcome aboard! Check out #dnd-newcomers if you haven't already, and give the #channel-guide a browse to find all the various spots to talk about stuff.

[tall forge]

I like to finish off a downed player if it makes sense for the enemies purely

[knotty vine]

think it depnds on the zombie some are caused by magic while others are caused by

[worldly cloak]

Same, but I've only DMed for my sister and close friends and I don't want to make them sad

[rough basalt]

Like if a person is a last one left standing and you killed his friends and he downed one of yours. He might just say "screw it, ima die anyway, may as well take one of you with me."

[primal wedge]

Hello I am kinda new to dnd and wanna ask if most DMs make the players start at lvl 2 or 1?

[tall forge]

Usually its 1 or 3

[rough basalt]

It's preference and sometimes campaign dependent

[worldly cloak]

You can make players start at any level you want, but it's usually 1 or at least below 5

[tall forge]

But that depends what you wanna run

I usually do 3 or 5

[primal wedge]

Oh thx everyone

[rough basalt]

Some people avoid level 1 to 2 cause they fear them.

[primal wedge]

I also want to play dnd online on mobile can you guys help me?

[idle oar]

?tag new online

[cosmic roost]

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/750-new-players-guide-how-to-play-d-d-online

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[rough basalt]

I'm hoping my campaigns keep going strong

[jolly canyon]

It will. gives energy

[rough basalt]

Cause it'd be really fun if one of my groups ended up having to fight one of my worlds lich's

Tho I'd feel bad if someone had to fight Abjuration or Illusion (they were part of an archmage council so they're themed for the school they represented)

[primal wedge]

Also any tips for being a DM?

[rough basalt]

Read the rules
Know when to say no
Know when to confront players
DM more games

[crimson gulch]

many skip level 1 and i think thats the wrong way to go about it, the feeling of growth you get from level 1 to 5 is an essential part of grounding a party of dnd players IMO

[rough basalt]

If you're a new dm I suggest level 1

[jolly canyon]

Yea honestly I enjoyed our lvl 1 sessions.

[rough basalt]

So you don't get overwhelmed by abilities from the getgo

[primal wedge]

Ok thx

[tall forge]

Tbh i still dont get the whole “grounding a party” thing

However strong a party feels is however strong i let them feel

[umbral girder]

Power of being the narrator

[crimson gulch]

my goal is to make sure my players fear death from level 1 to 20.
i Succeed

[tall forge]

That ones pretty easy… just kill em 😎

But eh, different goals as dms

[limber trail]

I’ve seen level 3 players feel like gods and and level 16 players feel like bugs

[tall forge]

My goal is to let my players tell a fun story, and death is an inconvenience if it ever occurs

If it happens, nothing i can do

But i hope it never does

[crimson gulch]

i make sure high stakes are present in my games

[limber trail]

I don’t mind death when it happens. I like it to be a present consequence of the campaign

I do also like it when non-death consequences are at play too

Which is to say, narrative failure

[tall forge]

Its my preferred consequence

Its the classic writing problem- killing a character means you are sacrificing all narrative potential

[rough basalt]

Nice, killem more

[limber trail]

I don’t fully agree and I don’t think you should approach dnd as a game to be written

[tall forge]

So if you got a story focused campaign, it gets really hard to actually do

[still plover]

If you're doing anything but the most self-centred, dungeons are cash machines, let's get rich or die trying adventures, there's gotta be consequences for anything but perfect success.

[tall forge]

I believe a lot of the tropes and issues with writing can be applied to dnd

Its not 1:1, but stuff like “planet of hats” or “fridging” are easy examples

[still plover]

The Turkey City Lexicon (do Google it) is good for getting an outsider's look at what your writing might be doing.

[rough basalt]

If a PC dies, it can be used to enhance the narrative as well

Such as a surviving PC carrying on their mission for them.

Requires invested players willing to change their PCs narratively tho

[crimson gulch]

I disagree, its what makes the Story meaningful, the chance of failure, its not a forgone conclusion that they will win

[tall forge]

Thats a problem with regular writing as well, yes

[rough basalt]

The "characters shouldn't die" approach is currently ruining a game franchise of mine imo

[crimson gulch]

players dont just risk their PC lives, they risk the story they have built

[tall forge]

The difference being dnd is more interactive, meaning that failure is built in and success isnt inevitable, while in writing failure isnt there at all realistically

[rough basalt]

Cause it takes all the emotional impact of some of the games out when they survive unsurvivable circumstances cause the new company doesn't wanna kill characters off.

[limber trail]

Death also doesn’t necessarily mean a lesser story moment. Characters can for example sacrifice themselves for their allies and goals. I had a player do that once, made for a super impactful moment when they realized their life just wasn’t as useful as their allies and chose to die so they would live (cleric with no spell slots vs warlock with a couple 5th levels ready to go)

[rough basalt]

Like a guy surviving a few hundred ft drop into a bush after being beaten to a point he was bleeding and barely conscious and I'm pretty sure shot as well.

[tall forge]

To be clear im not going “players should never die!”

My outlook is player death is not preferred

It it happens, it happens. I’m just there to make challenges

I just make those challenges more likely to be beaten than not, and see what happens

[rough basalt]

Like my Monday games main driving factor has been a PC being donjon'd at level 1 which is effectively a PC death.

[crystal latch]

I just run a believable world and whether the PCs survive or die is largely up to them

Few PCs in campaigns I've played in have ever died, never any of mine, most of the time it was a death by skill issue

[limber trail]

Ultimately I’m not trying to create scenarios where player death is the most likely outcome, but I am trying to make scenarios where it’s a plausible one

[cyan iron]

I don’t know where to put this but I have a dnd character with a necklace that looks like an eye and I need to ascribe it an item and I need help picking that item

[jolly canyon]

#character-discussion i think?

Maybe I'm wrong?

[tall forge]

And to go back to writing- thats what writing is. Making failure seem plausible, and creating the illusion its there

For dnd its just actually there

[crimson gulch]

I create Deadly Situations that the players must face, its great

[crystal latch]

One time a fighter in my party died because he picked a fight with a hobgoblin devastator gangster at level 3
That's the most noteworthy death I've seen

[still plover]

Like a listed magic item? Or could be a holy symbol or spellcasting focus.

[tall forge]

Had a player die bc they forgot they could fly

[rough basalt]

Most reasonable death I've seen by a people enemies hand was a level 2 Necromancer badmouthing a paladin to his face and badmouthing his religion till he got backhanded

And he instakilled him

[cyan iron]

Magic im hoping

It’s for a rogue but hes a changeling

[crimson gulch]

in the past week i had a lever 17 warlock get torn apart by a marilith
a level 2 fighter get their heart ripped out by a perryton
and a level 7 paladin get Envenomed to death by giant wolf spiders
and 3 points off from instakilling a level 8 cleric with a mind flayer head bite

[viral kraken]

gruesome

[crimson gulch]

today its level 3 in Barovia, tommorow its Level 8 in the Pyramid of Pharoh, Friday its level 18 in the dungeon of the mad mage. Sunday its level 8 in Tyrrany of Dragons. and then monday its level 5 in exandria during the calamity, and then tuesday its back to the Moonshae islands where a moonwell has been fozen solid and turned into an icy dungeon

[still plover]

A character you're playing, or are you the DM here?

[cyan iron]

DM, it’s for the campaign where im giving people characters

[still plover]

Could be for darkness or invisibility, perhaps.

[limber trail]

Level three in barovia, may strahd have mercy

[severe rampart]

May Urizt have mercy, he's gonna throw four fireballs

[limber trail]

Could try for a reflavoured eversmoking bottle

[crimson gulch]

he dont

[crimson gulch]

I dont

[limber trail]

Hey…. Yeah…. I wasn’t that optimistic

[crimson gulch]

Curse of strahd kill count is 1 so far

for this run

[rough basalt]

My current campaigns are level 6 Monday, Level 2 Wednesday

[severe rampart]

... he's looking to raise that

[crimson gulch]

i used the haunted house from Van ricktons guide to ravenloft as the intro quest

[still plover]

What level is clairvoyance again?

[rough basalt]

4th?

[crimson gulch]

4th level spell

[still plover]

Hmm, steep.

[severe rampart]

I thought it was 3rd

[rough basalt]

Nah 4th

[severe rampart]

2024 it's 3rd, on DnD Beyond

[still plover]

Perhaps this necklace lets you ritual cast it once per long rest.

[rough basalt]

I'm looking forward to the day I get someone using Divination spells in my games
Oh huh

[limber trail]

My players are meeting some new baddies tomorrow. A beautiful quartet of foes to terrify them. I think a simulacrum of the CR 16 mage at their side should be enough to make for a good level 6 boss before they get their 7th level.

[severe rampart]

Yeah Clairvoyance is 3rd

[limber trail]

They’ll also get to see some undead giants which will be real fun

[severe rampart]

that or DnD beyond is bugging out

[rough basalt]

I thought for sure it was 4th

But I think theres a 4th level Divination I might be mixing it up with

[jolly canyon]

Depending on where my players go they may either get attacked by a Zakya with some lesser fiends for help or a warehouse full of monstrosity types.

[rough basalt]

I await the day I can use one of my HB liches

Blades one would be cool.
Personality and ability wise he's one of the planets biggest aura farmers.

[severe rampart]

Today is that day

[rough basalt]

Level 2 party ain't gonna come across one.

[severe rampart]

Awhh

[rough basalt]

A mummy lord at worst

[limber trail]

Aura Farming is essential to good DnD villains

[rough basalt]

He's also the least evil Lich which makes him stand out a lot more.

[severe rampart]

Make him own a Cloak of Billowing

[rough basalt]

Ill give him a domain expansion that permanently makes his clothes billow dramatically.

[jolly canyon]

I gave that to my kobold player already. He was very happy lol

[rough basalt]

My Wednesday party was sent to recover one and ended up in a plot of confusion amidst a terrible flash flood.

[severe rampart]

Demiplane Expansion* don't wanna get copyrighted

[limber trail]

I assume most of my villains have some kind of a billowing cloak

[rough basalt]

I've been considering domains to be one of the anime things that you can use well for high level caster enemies as a template

Tho it started cause my Wizard tower map was simply too small to fit all the combatants comfortably

[severe rampart]

make a player have access to a domain of their own and have a domain clash

[rough basalt]

Reminds me of a piece of art I saw that was absolutely insane

It was a Bard summoning Mahoraga on Tiamat but Mahoraga was Vegeto from Dragonball

[fossil shuttle]

Ya mean Vegeta?

[severe rampart]

Could be Vegito

[rough basalt]

Some dude commissioned 200 bucks for it and the creators were like "we were just as confused as you are" to the public after they posted it to social media.

Oh right Vegito

They even made a caption version where Tiamat says she's confused

[severe rampart]

Oh I see it.

This is beautiful

[rough basalt]

And the most dangerous part is the commissioner said he'd be back for another

[valid geyser]

I like the idea of making dope ass villains for games but I think I always get burnt out in trying to give them all the traits of a good villain in a natural game and results in a lot of burn out

[rough basalt]

If I'm gonna do a story with a persistent villain it'd probably be a shorter game

Longer games villains who work in the shadows are just easier.

[valid geyser]

I think my main issue is trying to make sure they’re pulling enough threads and having players be invested in them

[rough basalt]

Invested players really are the key to any dnd game having depth

[crimson gulch]

absolutly, everything falls flat when players dont care

[severe rampart]

Truer words have never been said

I am very thankful for my players, always showing up on time, always invested in the story

[valid geyser]

You’re usually only gonna fight these guys once because of how d&d fights are usually to the death, or there’s hoops to jump through with player power so that makes it an issue

[rough basalt]

If someone is just showing up to roll and go on their phone then they're not a good fit for a game with any robust story

[crimson gulch]

yeah, thats why i encorage paper sheets instead of apps for all my in person games, keeps folks more focuesed

[valid geyser]

I’ve been on a big Star Wars kick lately, but it’s hard to have a sith style villain in d&d because those guys are usually fought one on one (at most 2 on 1 but even then there’s a lot of separation with the darth maul fight)

[rough basalt]

Ye the Darth Maul fight is Maul persistently trying to make room to fight each of them 1 on 1 iirc

[fossil shuttle]

Consider the fact that the campaign I joined last June had already been going for over a year, and in the time I've been playing, the "minions" the BBEG has thrown at us have included twin cult leaders, a buffed Strahd, and an ancient orange dragon. The party dealt with the twins just before I joined, and we hit Strahd with a boat. We're finishing off the dragon next session. You can absolutely have a long campaign with a persistent villain.

[rough basalt]

Never said it was impossible and I meant a villain whose showing up to the party directly

[crimson gulch]

i love forshadowing a villan

[rough basalt]

Like a powerful mage villain causing disasters on the party to impede their journey and force them through more dangerous routes (See Saruman in Fellowship)

[fossil shuttle]

Fair. Ours can't exactly just "Show up" though. It's a physical manifestation of ambition sealed away in an ancient vault.

[valid geyser]

Usually I prefer having multiple villains who might or might not be working together. Allows for variety, more chance for a villain to have persona connection, and longevity

[severe rampart]

The final fight being the Sinister Six

[calm cobalt]

Hey, so I got a problem. I'm dming my first campaign, in my eyes everything is going great, my friends like it alot, but one friend is like completely silent and literally scrolls on his phone and even interrupts while im talking. Is it a me problem or is he just not interested at all lol. Friends are saying he's just there to spend the time w us, so idk if I should kick him or focus more on him during playing? Anyone ever had an uninterested player and dealt with them?

[severe rampart]

Pull them to the side, communicate with them

[rough basalt]

If he's just on his phone and there to hang out more focus isn't gonna change anything

[crimson gulch]

enforcing a few table rules on Ettiquet is key

[valid geyser]

I was gonna suggest taking them out individually as it’s own episodic thing, but having some boss rush thing at the end would totally rule

[severe rampart]

them having abilities that compliment each other, one floods the room, another levitates the others, and the third uses lightning to shock every PC

[jolly canyon]

Had this same problem! One of my friends was playing rocket league while we played lol I told everyone they need to be engaged, not doing other activities and announce to everyone if they need to step away. Also thag if they aren't having fun they can not play if they don't want to.

[rough basalt]

If you're playing a game during a session there's something wrong. Either with the table or you.

[calm cobalt]

Im really confused about it, because at first glance it seems like he wants to play, he does communicate about finding time for the gamenight, but at the table he genuinely scrolls on his phone and plays a game on his phone during combat when its his turn...

[rough basalt]

A lot of people like the idea of dnd more than actually playing it.

[jolly canyon]

Group of friends who are all new and a couple just view the session as "something to do"

[severe rampart]

Forgive me for the crude term, but they larp playing a roleplaying game

[rough basalt]

Yeah pretty much

[severe rampart]

I am convinced it's the same people who still makes those stereotypical bard, paladin, etc. jokes

[rough basalt]

Larping engaging in a hobby rather than actually engaging with it is becoming quite an issue in a lot of hobbies

[severe rampart]

especially when the hobby takes time and patience

[valid geyser]

Getting distracted is a bad habit I had when i played games online a lot. When in person I can at least throw my phone in my bag but

[calm cobalt]

They are new and its about to be our 5th session, other friends are engaging, and actually learning and prepping before the game (class, actions,..) but during game he is completely silent and interrupting everyone grabbing wtv is closest and doing something with it

[rough basalt]

Like there's people telling fans of video games that they're elitist for playing the games.

[still plover]

Maybe a silent fidget toy would help?

[severe rampart]

Yeah, it's 100% correct to pull him to the side, explain how he's bringing the game down for everyone, ask him politely to stop, and if it doesn't work out? give him the boot

[rough basalt]

I've seen something similar in dnd. Mainly on social media which is "its gatekeeping if you tell your players to learn the rules."

[severe rampart]

Unless the PC is a child, I don't think that'd work

[jolly canyon]

Yea same jack. The rest of my friends enjoy it. It was just that ome friend amd then ended up not being a main pc in my campaign(his choice). I said he can join as a guest character if he wants as to not make him feel like he's excluded. It was amicable.

[severe rampart]

wouldn't help with the focus problem neither

[calm cobalt]

No idea dude, i'll see what happens w him next session but its really annoying. Its my first campaign, homebrew, made a fairly nice story and its quite demotivating

[rough basalt]

I wouldn't wait till next session

Longer it goes on the frustration can turn into resentment

[severe rampart]

Don't let it build up, just communicate with them ASAP

[rough basalt]

Like I eventually started resenting some people I played with for refusing to learn the rules rather than find a new table or hitem with power word read

[severe rampart]

it is an unfortunate truth that not all good friends are good D&D friends

[jolly canyon]

Yup yup!

[glossy otter]

truly said

though mind if I ask the tldr of this?

[rough basalt]

Guy shows up and only plays on his phone

[glossy otter]

Ye, boot

[severe rampart]

Friend's not focusing on D&D game, disrupts the party with taking the closest item he can and plays with it

[severe rampart]

I say communicate first

give him a chance, if he doesn't change, give him the boot

[glossy otter]

Fair, I suppose it is dependant on context

if it's to fidget, I'd agree with the fidget toy comment

[rough basalt]

Like I had a dude who started watching Tik Tok when I was mid-narration and didn't mute his mic and that should've been an immediate gone.

[glossy otter]

Yeah, that ones beyond disrespectful

[calm cobalt]

Bahaha, I forgot to mention last session, when I was directly roleplaying an important to one of the players, he pointed his phone infront of his face to watch a reel..

Maybe I should talk to him

[cobalt escarp]

its not a maybe, you def should

[rough basalt]

not a maybe, a definitely

[flint ledge]

During combat I think it's okay if you then don't take 10 minutes for your turn after but during narration it's just disrespectful

[rough basalt]

I don't mind if you can take your turns normally and engage with the game

[buoyant oar]

Rage anger despair curses.

I would boot a player who refused to learn the rules of the game because at its core is no different than other forms of disrespect.

[rough basalt]

Lot of people online try to play off disrespectful behavior by painting the other as the bad guy

[jolly canyon]

My friends haven't even read the free rules so I have no issue telling them what I will or won't allow

[flint ledge]

Well yeah it's easier to blame someone else than to actually improve yourself

[rough basalt]

Will always remind me of the 44 rules horror story

[rough basalt]

They'll go to the ends of the earth for it too

[severe rampart]

because once the bar is so low, they can actually pass

[glossy otter]

ngl that was legendary by dnd horror standards

[rough basalt]

They'll say they're too poor to afford free rules, too disabled to read (but they can clearly read your messages), it just instills rage in me

[buoyant oar]

Once a player has played a few games with me I start adding a combat timer. Got called out as a DM in a DnD influencer's discord for that.

[cobalt escarp]

ive read some of it, ive rarely cringe as much as i did then

[rough basalt]

It was the one time that reddit turned into the FBI

[glossy otter]

ngl I'm outta there if their rules stretch out longer than a page if it's not unique mechanics

[rough basalt]

Found out the players were bullying the dm, destroying his books and terrorizing them

So the dm had a breakdown and made that message

[severe rampart]

house rules or just etiquette rules?

[glossy otter]

Kinda both? It's more if its all restrictions

[rough basalt]

Know how they found out? The player who posted the 44 rules post had old posts where they bragged about bullying the dm

[buoyant oar]

Those players were legit insane pyschopaths

[crimson gulch]

this one i agree with, i am the rules and players just need to know what they want to do and i adjudicate accordingly

[flint ledge]

I personally don't like combat timers but calling people out for them, really?

[rough basalt]

I think its just used as an excuse to be lazy

I'm not expecting people to know the whole rulebook. Just what your character does

[buoyant oar]

I use a generous 2 minute timer with pauses for questions to keep the game moving.

[crimson gulch]

nah, i brink 50 pounds of books to game nights, i dont expect my players to know all the inns and outs, they just need Intention and good listining to get started

[severe rampart]

My restrictions are just no political talks and no using AI at my table, alongside needing respect for everyone at the table

[rough basalt]

Well these people basically want the dm to play for them

[crimson gulch]

we learn as we play

[glossy otter]

AI I'm flexible but only for art as we don't really have a budget for the game

[buoyant oar]

Learning as play should be reinforced with reading. Otherwise. Errors will be embedded. And players will take house rules as gospel to other tables.

[rough basalt]

There's no reason a player should be 20 sessions deep into a game and still not know they have to roll a d20 when you say roll to attack

[crimson gulch]

yeah thats why i am super light on house rules

[rough basalt]

Unless its like an occasional brainfart

[flint ledge]

Luckily I don't have problem players for the most part

[cobalt escarp]

bro im reading the 44 rules now and what is this??😭

Oh and rule 44. I'm never just threatening you. I'm promising you.

[glossy otter]

I remember working for a resturant and I had a brainfart where I forgot how to wrap a sandwich in paper for a minute lol (pardon me, you got me reminiscing)

[rough basalt]

A bully victim having a nervous breakdown on text

[crimson gulch]

oh man that 44 rules post, those poor people, imagine what lead to that?

[rough basalt]

The players bullied the dm and destroyed his books and stuff

[crimson gulch]

yeah

[cobalt escarp]

wait actually?

[rough basalt]

They found old posts from the players who bragged about it

[cobalt escarp]

damn nm

[rough basalt]

Cause people thought that was simply too unhinged and had to have some real reason behind it

[glossy otter]

Just found the 44 rules XD

[buoyant oar]

I don't think that a player should have all of the rules memorized or anything. But by level 5 they should know how their character works. And if they have a question be able to use the book to find answer as step one.

[cobalt escarp]

im sorry i didn't know the backstory of this

[rough basalt]

When i read it i immediately thought "what did these players do to provoke this"

[crimson gulch]

nah, easier and faster to ask during play, i have the answeres

[buoyant oar]

It was deliberately written to make the DM look bad.

[crimson gulch]

nothing slows a game down like a player trying to do a lookup themselves

[rough basalt]

I'm fine as long as effort is made

I don't wanna have to play their pcs for them the whole campaign

[glossy otter]

the fact it exists is a testament to something

[wanton raft]

Can I get booming blade as a life Cleric without multi class

[buoyant oar]

Yea, on my end. If they just ask me. I am just going to look it up.

[worn lagoon]

sage background

[wanton raft]

I agree

[wanton raft]

(cries)

[rough basalt]

Like I'll correct mistakes, accept mistakes corrected

[worn lagoon]

or be an elf

[wanton raft]

I'm a Drow

[worn lagoon]

but sage background is the least restrictive option here, it also lets you have +2 wisdom

[buoyant oar]

Yep and it should be expected that the looking up should be done when its the other 4 player's turn in combat

[wanton raft]

I've built the character. He's level7

[worn lagoon]

well, now your drow has a phd

[rough basalt]

But if we're level 7 and you still don't know what a d20 is every time i ask, I'm just not dealing with that

[wanton raft]

2014

[worn lagoon]

you'll have to get a magic initiate feat with your lv8

[glossy otter]

I love that half of the 44 rules are just reiterations of other rules

[wanton raft]

Was asking cause I get access to divine strike too but my Dex is mid and my str is dogwater so I can't use weapons with it.

[rough basalt]

Yeah you can tell it was made in a fit of rage and sadness

[buoyant oar]

The 44 Rules DM has the patience of a Saint.

[wanton raft]

Seems like the way

[worn lagoon]

booming blade doesnt improve your to-hit, you're looking for true strike

[glossy otter]

I feel like I'm reading a holy scribes document XD

[worn lagoon]

oh wait, 14 true strike

nevermind

[rough basalt]

If i had someone spill soda onto my books intentionally, I'm giving them a minute to pack up and leave

[worn lagoon]

you are entirely out of options, just use cantrips

[rough basalt]

Or i make them leave

[wanton raft]

But my divine strike 😔

[worn lagoon]

or wait, magic initiate: druid and get shillelagh and a blunt weapon to use it with

[rough basalt]

But if i ever play irl im not having drinks near my books

[worn lagoon]

it will use your wisdom to melee attack

[wanton raft]

Okay I think I'll do this instead

[wanton raft]

Sweetttt

[worn lagoon]

hf

[wanton raft]

I was going to get war caster instead but I think that's better

[glossy otter]

Yeah, that one I'm just going to calmly ask them to leave

[buoyant oar]

I explicitly don't run the game for friends unless I met those friends through the game. Because I get to set my tolerance level to professional. No worries nor fretting.

[worn lagoon]

war caster is one of the best feats a spellcaster can get, what did you use your lv4 feat on?

[wanton raft]

ASI to get wisdom to 18

[cobalt owl]

Not a bad choice ngl

There's worse onrs

[cobalt escarp]

whats ur subclass?

[worn lagoon]

ah right, i was accustomed to 24 war caster letting you get wis to 18 too

[wanton raft]

Def. I have a +7 to guiding bolt (not that it matters when I keep rolling 4s and 5s)

[cobalt owl]

Probs started 16 wis

[worn lagoon]

generally speaking war caster is really good for a caster who wants to come to melee

[rough basalt]

making all general feats halffeats was one of the best changes

[worn lagoon]

which you seem to enjoy

[wanton raft]

I generally like casting far more than melee. I just don't want this divine strike to waste

[worn lagoon]

command: flee on an opponent to waste their turn and get an oppurtunity attack on them, and war caster lets you cast a spell on them instead of a melee oppurtunity attack

[worn lagoon]

divine strike is not a very strong thing, so letting it go to waste won't make you a worse cleric.

[wanton raft]

Command only works on humanoids right?

[crimson gulch]

nope

[wanton raft]

...oh

[worn lagoon]

in 14 it works on anything except undead and constructs iirc
in 24 it works on anything

[severe rampart]

not anymore

[worn lagoon]

command is a very very strong spell, and your bread and butter as a melee-ing cleric

[wanton raft]

(I've had it prepared since level 3 and never used it once cause we only fought creatures(

[crimson gulch]

the Glamor bards in my games go HAM on command

[worn lagoon]

so don't feel pressed to grab shillelagh, feel free to take war caster

you can waste someone's turn and then guiding bolt them as a reaction

[severe rampart]

Shame it doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, at least I don't think it does

[crimson gulch]

one uses the help action with the harper feat to give them disadvantage and then hits them with the command as a BA with their special ability

[worn lagoon]

it very much does

[severe rampart]

Oh it does now?

[worn lagoon]

echo, it always did

[cobalt escarp]

yeah if you prefer range then taking a feat for one cantrip doesn't seem optimal

[crimson gulch]

Command Flee or Approach would Allways Trigger attacks of opprotunity in 5e

[wanton raft]

Okay then. Perfect

[severe rampart]

I forgot what did and didn't count as forced movement

also the term forced movement just is inaccurate

[wanton raft]

Table drama👀

[worn lagoon]

forced movement is a rubbish misleading term. if the opponent is using their movement speed to move, you can aoo

[worn lagoon]

lowkey sounded like his mom so deleting

[wanton raft]

LMAO

[severe rampart]

Okay Dad

[worn lagoon]

I'M NOT THAT OLD...

but yeah, divine strike is whatever, potent cantrip is almost always better

war caster and command/dissonant whispers strats are very fun

especially when the whole gang gets oppurtunity attacks on the same enemy at once

[severe rampart]

Should've just done Dissonant Whispers into Command: Grovel for that Death Slaad

[worn lagoon]

that's awful

[severe rampart]

how it sets up for the paladin to cleanly kill him

[worn lagoon]

yeah but your spell save dc is terrible 😭

anyway i'm giving you something to bump it up next session, probably

[severe rampart]

15 DC at level 8 isn't that bad 😭

[worn lagoon]

when I was your level I had 19 (old man noises)

[glossy otter]

what in same hill did I miss lol

[worn lagoon]

is there an arcane grimoire equivalent for bards or do i invent something

[severe rampart]

the drums

Rhythm Maker's Drums

[crimson gulch]

Rythem makers drums

[severe rampart]

good thing I'm also proficient in drums 🥁

[worn lagoon]

hmm, one bardic inspo doesnt seem equivalent to the five sp from bloodwell vial

i'll probably still end up cooking up an equivalent flute

[terse blaze]

hello!

[glossy otter]

Greetings and salutations

[terse blaze]

Thanks?

[glossy otter]

Oh, sorry, I'm used to the question mark lol

[worn lagoon]

what do you think about the ability to burn an BI into a lv1 spell slot? Like the opposite of the lv5 bard trait

[glossy otter]

though hail and well met

[severe rampart]

better than nothing

[worn lagoon]

this is my master plan to bait you into going melee to dissonant whispers all day

[glossy otter]

gotta love them disturbing whispers

[severe rampart]

I have no other choice, I'm multiclassing into Warlock

[glossy otter]

which pact?

[worn lagoon]

the school wifi (pactless lv1-2 warlock)

i view subclassless warlock as novices leeching little bits of power from various eldritch entities unaware of them

[glossy otter]

Ngl while it's a dead horse, i'm still not privy to the fact it's lvl 3 to determine warlock patrons

storywise it just feels weird in a way imo

[worn lagoon]

i just came up with something otherwise it'd be weird to me too

[severe rampart]

picking up the first imp I find and there you go my "Patron"

[glossy otter]

sorry, bad joke

[valid geyser]

Yeah the phb gives it such a weird class favor now that discourages a personal relationship between warlock and patron. I can easily ignore it but I think it’s silly wotc thought players didn’t want that

[hollow stone]

we are treading into a strange and terrifying territory where every subclass feature appears at the same level, which in itself isn't a problem, but the problem becomes when you can take a Wizard subclass as a Fighter and gain the subclass features at the same pace as if you'd taken a Fighter Subclass

[still plover]

Nah. You were always in with them, it's just level 3 where they start giving perks, now you're useful.

[severe rampart]

they grow tired of those who multiclass into warlock just for the hexblade and don't actually give anything to the patron /j

[worn lagoon]

hexblade has to be the least interesting patron

in terms of flavor anyway. a gishmaxxing warlock is super cool in theory.

[severe rampart]

I need my Martial Weapon proficiency

[still plover]

Flavour is what you make it. I'll agree, a lot of folk don't really push the boat out too far when it comes to hexblade, even with the Raven Queen.

It's either her, or possessed sword.

[tribal notch]

Hey everyone. I'm new here and to DnD. I've been hesitant cuz of how old the game is and I'm not sure where to start.

[glossy otter]

#dnd-newcomers should be able to help rulewise, but the games always been evolving since. The new ruleset was just back in 2024 so you don't need to dig too deep if you're looking for the newest stuff

[atomic moat]

possessed sword would work better with some system of legacy weapons, which would mean adding some homebrew or 3rd party rules. Hexblade is basically a cool mechanical idea with poorly thought out flavor used to justify the mechanics.

[tribal notch]

I see. Thanks.

[glossy otter]

np

Though anyone ever had the dilemma of consdering when to recruit or not? I mostly ask here because whilst I ask my group, I just want to get my thoughts out somewhere

oh, didn't mean to double alert, I thought I cancelled the first time, my bad

[worn lagoon]

it's hard to come up with more when the base thing isn't that interesting, compared to making a cool devil

[atomic moat]

Who here wants to invest in new fangled gnomish flying machines? Guaranteed to double your gold in seven days.

[glossy otter]

Who wishes to invest in dwarvish demon engines, they're sure to give you tyrants and warlords a run for your money. You'll conquer your enemies in 7 days

ngl why do I imagine that's what an actual dwarf fiend cult would do

[still plover]

Really? Talion and Celebrimbor, in the shadow.

[severe rampart]

Gnomish Flying Machines... are they called... autognomes?

[worn lagoon]

references entirely lost on me unfortunately

[glossy otter]

Shadow of mordor/war

[still plover]

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Ok, so: in Shadow of Mordor you play as Talion, a ranger, bound with an elven wraith named Celebrimbor. He will occasionally puppet you, augmenting your abilities and attacks with his spectral might and granting the use of supernatural powers.

Could totally be a hexblade patron.

[wanton raft]

It is. Like they're just supposed to RP the "I don't know where my powers came from" for level 1 and 2 which is like idk four sessions

[still plover]

Or, someone who suffered a crippling injury, was fixed up by a fellow who didn't know medicine or restoration magic but did figure a way to graft parts of a warforged chassis to the character's limbs to restore their function and it turns out maybe those parts weren't quite so dormant after all?

[wanton raft]

Unless they don't start level 1

Which nobody seems to these days

[glossy otter]

After playing Life is strange thats all I can think from that line

[wanton raft]

10/10 reference. It's peak

[still plover]

You don't gotta if you don't wanna.

[glossy otter]

I might take inspiration from it for a few campaigns. I unintentionally made one for my strixhaven campaign XD

[timber turtle]

Is DND called fantasy because you're only supposed to fantasize about playing it because you will never have the friends to play it?

[jolly canyon]

Yes

But in seriousness are you looking? If so check out #find-a-game if you haven't. If you have then keep trying friend!

[stark arch]

so i have a player at a table that plays cleric and he told me several times he wants to use Destroy Undead /turn undead on me and my undead children dm said no pvp. and i told the player if he does i wil not hold back on him. so should i give in to him and let him have the pvp since he always talks about it ?

[rough basalt]

Dm said no pvp so

[stark arch]

wel im not the one that wants to start it 😉

so if he does the thing sould i start roling my saving throws and just accept it? or ignore it ?

[worn lagoon]

DM will probably intervene

[wanton raft]

DM said no PvP. He's being a problem player and being way too excited about what's a really uninteresting feature

[jolly canyon]

Don't matter. If dm said no pvp then ignore anything that player says. If he says "I cast fireball on you" you say "lol nah" and let the dm step in

[worn lagoon]

If DM says no PvP. You have to abide by it.

[wanton raft]

DM will ignore it. DM ruling always goes

[stark arch]

ok thx 😛

[rough basalt]

Ye Destroy Undead is kind of just a Mook clearer

[worn lagoon]

If nearing the end of the campaign DM changes their mind, you can do the french rpg classic of the party members being each other's final boss.

[wanton raft]

I've not used it once. I don't think it's that great

[rough basalt]

Can be pretty big but most of the time you'll use your CD for your subclass

[wanton raft]

Yup

[wanton raft]

Though I've not seen an undead PC before so that's interesting

[stark arch]

i play necromancer with skeletons and zombies

[worn lagoon]

I have one in my party! An undead kobold necromancer.

[rough basalt]

I like the replacement for it in 2024

Where all Undead take d8s equal to your Wis mod of radiant damage and it doesn't take away the turn effect

[wanton raft]

Oooh niceee

[river vector]

Me when I realize my vampires disguises is just copying Strahd. No idea is original.

[stark arch]

i upgear my skeletons with beter armor and set of 3 differend weapons and wand of magick misile

[jolly canyon]

And your cleric wants to destroy them!? I assume their back story is they hate undead or something huh

[stark arch]

his backstory is that he is just a doctor

if he solos me i could easly take him on in theorie

[jolly canyon]

I guess you're allowed to come up with that hate for undead on the spot if it foesnt contradict anything. Either way pretty obnoxious to have a PC attack your summons on grounds of "its what my character would do"

[stark arch]

my main characters goal so to become an lich for etnernal life so he can study the rest of his existance XD

human life span is to short

[jolly canyon]

Valid character goal for a necromancer

My cleric actually hates undead too but I wouldn't attack friendly summons. Just voice my characters opinion during role-playing.

[stark arch]

sure. i realy would love to do theoratical pvps to see wo would be the beter strategist

[jolly canyon]

Fun to think about for sure.

[stark arch]

i have a cool idee. so i see that turn undead have a range of 30 feet. i could simply split up the skeletons far enough that there stil in 60 feet of me. as soon the fight begins i would give them a general order as in "go to your max effective range and shoot the cleric" and i be casting blinding and chiltouch on the cleric so he cant heal durning the fight when my skeleton with the wand of magick missile would do the moost damage

could also cast Cause Fearon him se he cant get closer to me

but it be risky cusof the wisdom saves

he be casting silance on me but i just need to keep moving

my save dc is 15 prety good

and since i mentally command the undead shouldt have effect on me when controling my undead

[stoic haven]

Omg I'm so excited. One of my friends is subbing in for me for a session on Friday and playing my character, and they are actually saying his name right

[radiant quarry]

Hi

[stoic haven]

(This friend is a Masters in Linguistics)

[radiant quarry]

I have one qestion about dnd

When are the sessiins for dnd i wanna play so im asking

[stark arch]

you got to find a group for sessions

[radiant quarry]

How cause im new

[stark arch]

good caustion i found a group trough my causin

[radiant quarry]

Ok but my family dosent play dnd and isent in this server so i am just wandering how will i find a group

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[harsh hinge]

You can post an ad yourself in #looking-for-dm (follow the instructions in #find-a-game) or reply to the ads that interest you in #looking-for-players. When you've been invited to a game, you'll probably spend some time figuring out when everyone can meet to play!

[radiant quarry]

Ok thanks

[vivid owl]

Co-DMing for a brand new DM and a full party of new players, they are asking me if it's possible to intimidate an entire horde of hobgoblins with one intimidation roll 😭

[severe rampart]

would be a pretty high DC to do so

[slender stump]

HAHAHAAHAHAHA

[wanton raft]

I don't think it's back story reason as much as a cleric wanting to use a cool feature

[slender stump]

I would do a group check

[vivid owl]

Yeah, they are all level 5 so it's gonna be hard to tell them that they can try their best but it probably won't do much lol

[wanton raft]

But RP can always do that

[slender stump]

And take the average result

But it has to be very high DC

[vivid owl]

Same, I just have be a little more strict rule-wise and be the rules lawyer as the Co-DM so they can get the basics of D&D down

[slender stump]

Oh. Yes in that case you should stick to the core rules

[vivid owl]

Yeah, and when I mean by new I mean NEW

"Wait, I can't set all of my stats to 30?"

"Why not?"

[slender stump]

Like Day 1?

[vivid owl]

I did a singular one-shot for them as a DM

Im teaching their other bud how to DM so I don't end up in the eternal hell of being a forever DM

[slender stump]

Huh-

What got them from New Player one-shot, to fighting a horde of hobgoblins? T_T

[vivid owl]

IRL thing, it's an odd situation

I should give more context, essentially the new DM wanted to run a heist like campaign set in the real world. I wanted to convince him just to run a pre-made official one shot but he insisted.

They aren't supposed to be fighting an actual horde of hobgoblins, they were just bringing up hypothetical questions

Sorry for the miscommunication

[hollow stone]

there are some DMs who have never been a PC in DND

[wanton raft]

Dread it, run from it...

[hollow stone]

the forever DM is DM all the same...

[wanton raft]

You can't escape it

[vivid owl]

I have the biggest flex any D&D player can have, a long-term group that has played multiple campaigns together

And yes, our forever DM is starting a brand new pirate campaign

[He wants out, we won't let him]

[rough basalt]

Rn I'm trying to work on a couple games to run but I keep working on my Setting Guide and stuff for my current campaigns

[calm cobalt]

Yo so I messaged the friend, idk what to think about it anymore, he did say he's gonna pay more attentiom to the game, will see how it goes 😭 i felt like a teacher scolding a student

[flint ledge]

I mean maybe not intimidate to strike fear into them, but maybe if they roll high enough the Hobgoblin leader is impressed by their courage or similar and that might lead somewhere. Would be what I'd do

[calm cobalt]

^ to whoever was present during convo earlier

[rough basalt]

Well sometimes players are children and need to be scolded

[severe rampart]

that's good.

[calm cobalt]

Hope it will be alright

[severe rampart]

you communicated, he said he'll try to improve, I'd say if he actually stops playing on his phone and starts being more engaged with the story then it's successful

if he keeps on doing what he does, give him the boot

[calm cobalt]

Yeeees hoping for the happy ending aswell

And end the session with a tpk 👼

[vivid owl]

D&D fan base in general needs to get training to become more authoritative, seen way too many "My player literally threatened to kill me irl, should I message him?" and "My DM literally just instantly-killed my character for making an OOC joke about apples."

[calm cobalt]

I dont think I should be scolding an adult over a game bahaha

[vivid owl]

I don't scold anyone over D&D personally. I scold them over coming to my campaigns that I take time to set up and make good for them, just for them to disrespect me and the other players

[calm cobalt]

Ok stop calling me out 💔

[valid geyser]

it can seem that way, but a lot of the popular reddit posts like this aren't representative of the norm, and shbould be taken with a grain of salt

[vivid owl]

Valid point, I personally find it to be more true since I have had a few experiences of a couple friends not leaving campaigns that weren't good for them even after weeks of stress

I even stayed in some real toxic groups when I first started and kept thinking that it would get better, but then I found some amazing people at the end of it

D&D is fun

[flint ledge]

It is with the right people

[vivid owl]

Yeah, recently I think I got into the worst campaign of my life and left after the first session

[calm cobalt]

How come?

[vivid owl]

Gonna take a minute to type the full story

DM repeatedly shut down my actions (even after a 26 Nature check), had the party attack me because I was suddenly “covered in mud” after simply running away from a storm with no prior narration of getting dirty, gave me 4 contamination then it got replaced with 4 exhaustion from a spell out of nowhere after sleeping, then killed my level 8 character with a random attack from the sky that did 120 poison damage and 6 D20's that did stat damage EACH. After that the DM offered to turn me into a shadow, but another player said they’d kill any undead and the DM made the party choose between us. I ended up leaving the campaign.

Extremely simplified version

[bronze wave]

sounds estatic

[vivid owl]

The DM for that game was also in the server I was in with my main group and continued to make multiple subtle offensive comments and harassed a female member

[red steppe]

This is what happens when you play calvinball

Why some DMs are like this?

[vivid owl]

same guy also joined the curse of strahd spin off homebrew my main DM was running and wanted to play his basically unkillable dwarf with a 78 in AC at level 5, he refused to roleplay and only wanted to do like cut scenes and he was shut down. I assume he did all of that stuff to me since he was upset and diden't have anyone to take his anger out on

[vivid owl]

I don't know personally

[red steppe]

78 AC tf? how did he achieve that?

[vivid owl]

3.5 Edition and he wanted to bring all of his "crafted" "mundane" gear with him at the start, DM gave him some leeway and said he could have one item

[red steppe]

im guessing its a mix of rules as i make up and not reading class features properly-

oh 3.5e i see

[vivid owl]

He took his ring of arming or whatever it was called and tried to be sneaky, because if he has the ring he gets all of his other stuff

But ill move off this topic since it's nothing but a D&D horror story

[red steppe]

i see

[knotty vine]

wow that sounds awful

[buoyant oar]

Socialization is hard for some people. If there could be a mandatory talk on socializing with TTRPGs that speaker would make millions.

[red steppe]

to be fair, i do see the whole thing as a video game so nothing wrong with that but the rest of the things he did is a no no

[empty thicket]

yep, fortunately one can get into a fantazy and in some way get out of that shy box

[lyric viper]

There is certainly a venn diagram overlap of 'People who are generally bad at interacting with others and lack empathy' (such as being predatory, aggressive and hurtful), and 'Bad DMing', mostly because the former does not lend well at all to a social game.

I feel we shouldn't always be so quick to shout 'Bad DM' and 'quit the game' after any story shared, but there are certainly times where it is better for that individuals safety and sanety to not expend energy trying to 'fix' that game, especially when the issues far extend outside of the game itself. That gets more into toxic relationship issues which are a minefield.

[sleek cloud]

Anyways, justice for rogues. buff sneak attack damage die to d8 or at least give assassin rogue d10s

[rough basalt]

Sneak attacks fine.

[severe rampart]

Assassin kinda sucks, but the sneak attacks are alright

[sleek cloud]

D100 sneak attack die

[severe rampart]

rolls 1

[sleek cloud]

Now we’re talkin

[empty thicket]

that is... a really bad luck ngl

1% in theory

[sleek cloud]

you know what just for fun, I’m gonna see what I roll

[bronze wave]

Id like to see sneak attack get buffed

maybe not dmg but have it do more just stuff or make it just do more

[sleek cloud]

76

[severe rampart]

I actually just rolled 100 wth, what a waste of luck

[sleek cloud]

Tragic 😂

[severe rampart]

there goes my luck for Saturday's game

[bronze wave]

In my DM voice "And how do you want to do this?"

[severe rampart]

Dissonant Whispers overwhelming their head with various insults

[empty thicket]

he, fallout number

[sleek cloud]

I mean, cunning strike do kind of cover that idea some, but still at the cost of damage

[knotty vine]

i wont forget the time someone tried to play AM in my dnd game

[bronze wave]

meh effects and it shouldnt even cost dmg

[potent vector]

Tbh, it does actually help towards the Caster/Martial Gap, but doesn't fix the Rogue specific issue

[severe rampart]

from I have no mouth and I must scream? Warforged?

[potent vector]

Sneak Attack's being it's worse than Extra Attack math wise because it's all or nothing

(Among other things)

[severe rampart]

You could crit fish

[reef tundra]

-# Here we go again

[severe rampart]

uh oh did I bring something up

[lyric viper]

Remember we have #optimization if you really want to dig into some of these mechanics and tactics!

[knotty vine]

yeah

[severe rampart]

Just imagine me hitting myself with a newspaper like Dobby from Harry Potter

[scenic zinc]

Does fish really deserve to be crit?

[knotty vine]

allied master computer

[reef tundra]

I think now it's just a response I have whenever I see the word "martial" or "caster"

I just immediately assume it's that insufferable argument

[knotty vine]

martial caster! bah!

[viral kraken]

i'm confused how hitting for the same amount per round on average, but with one attack versus many attacks is better or worse? is it just about feeling better, because you deal some damage more often as opposed to either missing or hitting with all of it at once?

[green mirage]

off hand attack reduces this risk by a lot

[severe rampart]

uh oh here we go

[green mirage]

whoops

[reef tundra]

I enjoy the riskiness, makes their playstyle different and god dayum does it feel good when it hits

[knotty vine]

here comes the sun

[woven flint]

There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of millions of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate!

I love AM, He's so real...

[bronze wave]

sneak attack dmg just wont ever compare to another attack but idk think it like needs to, its a diff flavor type

[knotty vine]

i dont think AM would make a good adventuering partner through

[severe rampart]

His speeches and attitude are so good

[reef tundra]

Rogue is honestly such an inspiration for me whenever I homebrew classes because of how it makes the fighting style of a non-caster distinct

[severe rampart]

I love playing Halfling Rogues

[sleek cloud]

Bilbo baggins coded

[reef tundra]

They are a classic

[knotty vine]

goblin rogue is more my style

[green mirage]

what about a dm for a dungeon crawl

[potent vector]

Wanna ride the line because I'm not tryna argue for the optimal way to play Rogue, because to talk Abt why I think rogue needs a buff, we gotta admit there's a problem.

Rogue numbers wise is the worst combat class, for reasons I think can be smoothed out.

[knotty vine]

he hates humans thats all i gotta say

[lyric viper]

Quite literally!

[woven flint]

They call him AM
Allied "Walk 'Em Down" Mastercomputer

[bronze wave]

I think rogue is fine for a martial imo, it has other things and it isnt resource dep, i just think martials in gen need more buff

[knotty vine]

and i feel like if put in dnd he would also hate humanoids

[potent vector]

Issue is that is resource dependent

[reef tundra]

-# Oh god let's not put us on thin ice

[knotty vine]

which is a lot of player races

[bronze wave]

what is

[severe rampart]

I would love to get as much hate in my system as he does, so I can write speeches like that, oh my god, just imagine your BBEG taunting your PCs like that

[knotty vine]

i wonder what AM would say about a lich

[woven flint]

My favorite species is Minotaur
Alas, I've only played 2 😔

[sleek cloud]

So what about just increasing the actual sneak attack progression instead of the damage die

[reef tundra]

Positivity, people, let's do our best to avoid the worst reoccuring topic of debate

[sleek cloud]

Do yall think that getting another d6 per level instead of every 2 would be too much

[reef tundra]

Oooh I love minotaurs. Never played them, but I love using them as enemies

[knotty vine]

20d6 at level 20 is funny as hell

[viral kraken]

i mean i do, but i also think rogue is good enough to play as is lol. i'm a rogue in the campaign i get to play in

[severe rampart]

Gorrister!, do you remember the last words you heard your wife speak before they took her to the asylum?, The taunting and the delivery of it, I feel like if AM wasn't as evil as he was, he'd be a damn good DM

[potent vector]

Rogue. It still relies on HP, and methods to apply Sneak Attack (Advantage, otherwise is partner dependant).

[knotty vine]

rouge can just drop half the damage of a metor swarm

[lyric viper]

I love that Krynn took the idea of minotaurs being great at directional sense with their labrynth senses and went 'That would make them amazing nautical navigators'

[knotty vine]

unless you got a subclass that says otherwise like swash

[reef tundra]

Oooh I gotta try Krynn one day, the only taste I've gotten is from Eve of Ruin

[sleek cloud]

Oh whoops. Instead of seeing 20d6 I rolled 20d20

[potent vector]

Fixing a class issues with a subclass is bad game design

[sleek cloud]

Got like 233

[viral kraken]

or steady aim?

[bronze wave]

how does it rely on hp? plus sneak attack has "infinite uses" like i meant resource as limit number of uses

[reef tundra]

Not the point they were making

[bronze wave]

just do steady aim

[woven flint]

I had a Minotaur Giant Barbarian
He had disdain for the entire party because they either wore armor, used ranged weapons, used magic or all three.
The only reason he adventured with them was for cash
The Tabaxi in the group had a crush on him lmao

[lyric viper]

Krynn is interesting. It deviates more from the D&D standard than Greyhawk or Faerun. But also has a much more classic fantasy feel to it.

[knotty vine]

i was just saying theres plenty of rouges and a billon ways to get advantage in dnd

one really good one is taking 2 levels in barbarian

[bronze wave]

I think rogues work fine in compare to martials just caster/half caster blow it out of the water

[reef tundra]

I'm just saying, I've been playing and DMing for five years in all tiers of play, I have never once seen any class consistently underperform compared to others

[knotty vine]

2d12 hit dice and the ability to sneak attack

[lyric viper]

Although TBF most of my knowledge of Krynn comes from the amazing Russian musical, the not so amazing animated movie, reading the original module and cultural osmisis.

[green mirage]

strength rogue is cursed

[sleek cloud]

As it should be

[woven flint]

Strength Rogue...

The Strogue...

[lyric viper]

Beef Strogue on/off

[green mirage]

Beef stroganoff 🤤

[knotty vine]

it is but still awesome

[potent vector]

Steady Aim presents new issues however in gameplay (which I'll drop seeing as it probably won't lead to anything productive here, just know I don't agree with the current iteration of it)

[sleek cloud]

So proud elgate

[woven flint]

Beef Rogue'n off

[sleek cloud]

You’re grounded

[severe rampart]

Great now I'm hungry

[green mirage]

what subclass

[reef tundra]

Rip Tokii

[green mirage]

do yuo recommend

[potent vector]

I do wish Strength Rogue was supported a lil more to support this dip ye

[knotty vine]

Benny!

[lyric viper]

Why you got beef with 'em? 😛

[reef tundra]

The only change I'd make to rogue and maybe monk is just support for strength

[flint ledge]

Stealth is literally tied to dex, I see why they didn't try and make a Strength alternative

[lyric viper]

Now y'all gotta make a minotaur rogue.

[severe rampart]

Yummy.

[reef tundra]

Already a step ahead of you. I had an NPC one

[lyric viper]

Should minotaurs have hooves or feet?

[reef tundra]

Although they were an archer, centred on sniping and using their labyrinth to take cover

[reef tundra]

.... you've broken me with that one

[knotty vine]

hooves

[potent vector]

Counterpoint: They literally gave Barbarians a way to use normally Dex features with Strength. The opposite doesn't seem like a stretch for Rogue, especially when Monk exists.

[green mirage]

Idk, that feels like it would blur the line between classes too much, relying on certain abilities gives classes their identities and creates some guard rails for multiclassing

[knotty vine]

i do not wanna see DOGS on a minotaur

[sleek cloud]

Do you think Minotaur rogues would have silent, padded horseshoes for their hooves

[reef tundra]

Hmmm, I can respect that point

[green mirage]

like imagine if you could reckless attack as a monk

[potent vector]

Imo, hooves.

[flint ledge]

But why would they inverse it giving a primarily dex class a way to use strength with their dex skills

[potent vector]

Thief does it with Jump distance

[rough basalt]

Yeah you gotta account for multiclassing in 5e when you think of major changes

[potent vector]

There's a few skills that would be interesting for Dex to be able to be used for

[empty thicket]

which half it is?

[sleek cloud]

He’s going the distance

[woven flint]

Minotaurs should have hooves

In the realms they aren't usually half-man half-bull
So they should feel more monstrous

[reef tundra]

To baphomet, human feet are weakness

[lyric viper]

Classic Minotaur is a man with a bull head (Just one dude), but yeah, D&D minotaurs are proper bovine.

[flint ledge]

Again in the opposite way of what you suggest

[potent vector]

True

[lyric viper]

Real Brovines 💪 🐮

[sleek cloud]

BROVINES

[woven flint]

I have a Minotaur Death Cleric of Baphomet I've been waiting to play
He's not like, insanely evil, but I'd love to have him begrudgingly healing the party

"You need to be healed? Why? Shouldn't you want to die in glorious combat you pathetic welp?!"

[jolly canyon]

I'm feelin' fine, brovine!🙏

[minor cargo]

When they use the Stealth skill, would you consider that cowhide?

[green mirage]

as someone who's almost always multiclassing i'm aware of the limitations of many classes and i'm thankful for it.
The fact that some classes don't mix well together is a good thing, it automatically nerfs busted combinations if you need to divest from your main stat ability

[potent vector]

Ah, took me a second, you mean STR to Dex. Where I'm talking features that can be both.

[woven flint]

Normalize having Clerics of Devils/Demons and Archfey

[green mirage]

I made my last character an animist cleric

[reef tundra]

I have a paladin of asmodeus in one campaign

[green mirage]

rip he died last session

[woven flint]

A Forge Cleric of Dispater would go HELLA HARD

[green mirage]

i already made a list of like 5 characters to choose from for the next one

[lyric viper]

Although you gotta keep an eye on minotaur players, they're good at cheesing the game.

[woven flint]

My Harengon Wizard retired the last session he was in
Fatherly stuff
He's gonna go meet Bahamut is one of the reasons he left the party

I replaced him with an Air Genasi Attificer fellow ...
Now the party has an Air Ship!

[green mirage]

it's kinda poetic, my friend was 3d printing new minis, and only mine broke before the session. I said it was a premonition, then i fell to the ground and got two nat 1s on death saves

[sleek cloud]

Me, right before every session, thinking about the other 40 potential characters I could play if today’s the day my character perishes

[severe rampart]

Right before the session I roll a d20 for luck, nat 1 means I'm gonna roll badly, nat 20 means I'm gonna roll good

[woven flint]

I worry for my Bugbear Ranger lol
If he dies his Wood Elf wife is gonna miss him 😔

[severe rampart]

everyone does this right? it's not just me? I'm not weird?

[green mirage]

https://youtu.be/87F-Ind9BaQ
reminds me of this video

[woven flint]

He's only got a +1 in con due to stat rolls lol

[sleek cloud]

Oh buddy

[woven flint]

But, he's also a Gloomstalker so...

[sleek cloud]

2014 or 5.5

I guess I could just say 5 or 5.5 now

[green mirage]

how do we feel about 5.5 after two years

[flint ledge]

Yes I know features can be both but rogues entire thing was designed around dex, I mean barbarians don't let you make survival and perception checks with dex. Cause they're clearly meant for strength

[reef tundra]

Still loving it

[sleek cloud]

Having a blast

[reef tundra]

Although I've recently been combining it with old 5e

[viral kraken]

i like it

[severe rampart]

pretty good

[green mirage]

my table is still playing 5e but we were considering switching. Personally i like what they did, but sometimes it feels a bit too standardized, which you could say it's a good thing

one thing that i don't like is feats and backgrounds, it feels more limited than before

[potent vector]

I mean, do you have an example of "too standardized" anywhere?

[flint ledge]

They did remove a few optional rules like flanking which was odd imo

[potent vector]

Oh, yeah, I believe custom Background is still an option tho

So you can kinda get around it pretty easy.

[umbral girder]

A significant upgrade

[reef tundra]

I think combining both versions gets the peak TTRPG for me

-# I am not open for debate

[umbral girder]

Notably most of the optional rules was stuff from previous editions too.

[lyric viper]

My only issue with this is that it makes it sound like '5.5' is not '5e' when it still is.
'24 and '14 are a bit more clunky, but way more accurate. But then '5.5' and '5.0' were adopted on D&D Beyond (to help avoid confusion over legacy vs not legacy) because th community used it.

[terse blaze]

Hey question. How often do people here actually play DnD? Or is it just kinda a chat room for DnD players?

[umbral girder]

Flanking I know was a 3.5e and 4e thing

[minor cargo]

I play about once a week. Some weeks I play twice, and a few rare occassions I play 3 times a week.

[woven flint]

Fun Fact, you can just.. change the origin feat and ASI's of the background if you don't like em

[umbral girder]

This server is not for playing Dnd

[reef tundra]

This server is not for playing it, but you can find servers that do in #find-a-game

[lyric viper]

We don't play D&D on the server, but a lot of the users here regularily play in their own games.

Although we do have one or two who just like talking D&D but not playing

[reef tundra]

Sometimes you can tell who has or hasn't played it based on what they say

-# Such as everyone who complains about ranger /lhj

[lyric viper]

I mean, TBF, currently my regular game is biweekly between Drawsteel and PF2e >.>
Although played plenty of D&D before that- just don't have the time to juggle more games.

[flint ledge]

Makes me wonder if they're attempting to move away from the older editions

[umbral girder]

Every edition tries to be its own edition of the game

[reef tundra]

I believe they are, but that's just my read of the situation

[green mirage]

new backgrounds all granting an origin feat, warlocks without a patron, clerics without deity (all subclasses at level 3), origin feats being few and underpowered, all regular feats now give you a stat buff, warlocks pacts being turned into invocations, twinned spell getting nerfed into just a regular upcast, fighting styles being turned into fighting style feats.
What is happening here is that for the sake of balance they've removed a lot of the original texture and quirks from the game.

you could say it's a good choice, that balance is good, I'm just pointing out something i noticed

[flint ledge]

What is apparent is that they're not relying as much on the FR anymore. So I'm a bit curious on the direction they're going

[ripe nimbus]

i do think ‘24 making feats not an optional rule was a mistake. or at least making them something everyone gets one of at 1st level feels like a mistake. it’s one more factor for new players to decide on or track that can frustrate ‘em

I’ve seen it slow down character creation for my new players compared to ‘14, esp if they’re playing a human

on the other hand suggested spells for 1st level are great

but i think they were in ‘14 as well?

[green mirage]

i don't think so

it's definitely a good idea

[ripe nimbus]

yeah they are, i just checked

under “Quick Build” in each class

[still plover]

One feat from not a hugely long list doesn't sound too bad to decide on.

[glass granite]

Plus origin feats are relatively simple

Minus maybe magic initiate

[green mirage]

i think a lot of people were already playing with a feat at level one, variant human also worked if your dm didn't want to just grant one, but most people wouldn't pick the new origin feats, they would probably just choose something more impactful to their gameplay. I find it weird to be forced to pick an option that i don't really want when I used to be able to get something more specific to what i wanted to do

[ripe nimbus]

it doesn’t sound too bad but it does end up causing a noticeable slowdown in practice

[still plover]

That's only a factor in Session Zero though, right?

[ripe nimbus]

every extra bit of decision making might not sound bad in isolation but it adds up until 1st level character creation takes a long time

[river vector]

How's combat with a water weird? Annoying? Good?

[glad arch]

Idk i feel like lucky could use some explaining as well to a new player

[river vector]

I know the main drown gimmick

[glass granite]

Free rerolls a few times a day isn’t too complicated

[ripe nimbus]

or whenever a new player drops in (my game is open table) or when someone dies and needs to roll up a new character or similar

for open table games especially the longer character creation takes the more annoying it is

[glass granite]

In my experience my new players just choose a background that seems kinda interesting to them and take whatever feat that has

[bronze wave]

It’s fine to play, I had one in a room with water pipes, it would travel via the pipes around the arena

[green mirage]

old feats like warcaster didnt need a buff also

[frail wasp]

too gimmicky to be good imo

its more like a trap than a combat

[bronze wave]

I love gimmicky fights in dnd lol

[still plover]

In that case, it's a thing to anticipate and work towards fixing.

[south prawn]

Interesting you ask this, I may be running one Saturday

[feral fulcrum]

Honestly one shouldn't be expected to just crap out a charecter in under an hour in general.

You have like a whole week before a game starts.

[river vector]

I'm asking because I'm running one tommorow. Fight is in a river.

[river vector]

That's cool!

[ripe nimbus]

nah i think 1st level characters should be creatable in 15m.

[feral fulcrum]

Speedrunning charecter creation just leads to sloppy charecters you're not going to be attatched to.

[ripe nimbus]

you can get free respecs later

[glad arch]

• Dies at the beginning of the session *

[south prawn]

I swapped it in for a oddly placed Giant Octopus. The CR is off, but either way it's sort of an optional fight they can run from anyways for us

[still plover]

"What goes in the water stays in the water!" - De Vor, witch

[south prawn]

The Water Weird just seemed way more interesting to me

[feral fulcrum]

You realize there are plenty of games where the DM doesn't treat PC's like dispoable mooks, right?

[flint ledge]

That is true. Pretty sure that's a majority of games actually.

[glad arch]

Obviously, still doesnt mean its impossible to die early on in a session

[ripe nimbus]

and there are plenty of open table games where even absent character death being able to create a character in 15m is essential for the format to work, too

[river vector]

The players will start panicking when I start talking about drowning, but the rules for drowning are so unrealistic, they should be fine.

[frail wasp]

if you die at the beginning of the session, the DM knew what they were doing

[south prawn]

Unless it's Death House RAW?

[feral fulcrum]

Or very much didn't know what they were doing with combat.

[frail wasp]

accidents happen sure but statistically not at the beginning

[glad arch]

If you ended last session right before an encounter why shouldnt that encounter be just as dangerous as an end of session one

[frail wasp]

||death house isn't deadly for the first third of the dungeon||

[south prawn]

True. It's top of mind because I'm about to run a new group through it

[river vector]

I'm running CoS as my second campaign after I finish my homebrew (so in a few months)

[frail wasp]

sorry i thought we were talking about the first session

[south prawn]

I'm feeling nervous. I've DMd for a couple of years, but don't have a lot of character death under my belt. Just one and I ended up cheesing a revive (with consequences)

[river vector]

I've heard death house is well, a Death House.

[frail wasp]

obv after the first session all bets are off

[glad arch]

Aah that makes more sense, ill agree with you there. Dying in session 1 is dm issue

[river vector]

The ending of death house feels like my group would be evil about it

[south prawn]

Yep, I've been doing my homework. It's pretty nasty

[still plover]

Dying in Session Zero is a Traveller issue.

[glad arch]

Though i wouldnt be suprised if a dm killed a lvl 1 player by accident on the first encounter

[slender stump]

HOW

[south prawn]

I tried planting the seed to this new group in our session 0 last weekend how difficult CoS is and death is very very possible

I said "go ahead and consider second characters"

[jolly canyon]

Player: yo dm I have a character idea
Dm: I cast pwk on you

[south prawn]

The one experienced player didn't seem too happy about that

[ripe nimbus]

level 1 is pretty lethal, i wouldn’t be shocked if a level 1 character died to an encounter in session 1

[umbral girder]

Fun thing I decided to check. In 2014 the players are expected to get 3,031,413 gold pieces from a level 1 to 20 campaign (not including, Gems, Art, or Magic items)

[slender stump]

Dm: So this the setting you'll be playing in-
Player: (heart attack)

[still plover]

There's a lifepath with random elements, sometimes you learn new skills, one particular combination has your character retired from the Service in a plastic coffin, rather than off to a life of adventure.

[buoyant oar]

The easiest way to rebalance any D&D economy is to change all gold pieces rewards to Silver and nothing else

[ripe nimbus]

but the player’s reaction should be “oh no! okay guess ill roll up a new one” not “uggghhhh i spent an hour on this just now and you’re telling me i have to spend ANOTHER hour on this?”

[river vector]

Third Level player decided to antagonize my lich overarching villain. I was very nice and didn't PWK him.

[frail wasp]

cant control how players feel

[meager fractal]

Are you prepared for the return of Dark Sun?

[ripe nimbus]

i mean you can control if character creation takes 15m or 1h

[south prawn]

Even worse with brand new players who are incredibly attached to the first character

[slender stump]

Awh

[flint ledge]

Do you mean for treasure or prices

[slender stump]

But thats wholesome

[buoyant oar]

You should always pay in silver and charge in gold

[glad arch]

My dm used pwk on our level 5 party lol, he did also conveniently give us a 300gp gemstone a bit earlier then another one near the end of the session

[south prawn]

Not when they stand up from the table refusing to play in the rest of the campaign

"I couldn't possibly play another character"

[frail wasp]

gotta get the new players hooked first

[river vector]

how did that happen lol? Antagonize a Lich?

[slender stump]

DAMN

[buoyant oar]

If you've communicated expectations, that death is possible and that you will not pull punches in doing so. But that you don't want to kill them. Any emotional dysregulation is a them issue

[still plover]

"We hope you have enjoyed your D&D experience."

[ripe nimbus]

i don’t think the prices of 5e are balanced against each other at all well enough for just dividing player wealth by 10 to solve my issues with it…

[slender stump]

THEY TAKE THEIR LIL BUDDIES SERIOUSLY

[potent vector]

• Warlocks have Patrons, they just don't reveal themselves or give directly linked powers until 3rd.
• Origin feats are FAR from underpowered across the board, on the contrary, the vary in power lot (prob a lil too much tbh . . .)
• What's wrong with Warlock Pacts?
• Twin Spell I TOTALLY get tbh.
• Fighting Style Feats are a buff, since they can now gatekeep it with the Prequisite of the feature from Casters, and buffed a few accordingly
• Oh, and Cleric also don't technically even get powers from Deities anyway, they get it from the Outer Planes.

[frail wasp]

new players not liking a game where they die in the first encounter isn't emotional dysregulation >_>

[south prawn]

Haha, yep. True story. And that dude is my good friend and the glue of the group, so not like I could kick him

[glad arch]

Not even, but i am pretty sure hes supposed to be the bbeg (eventhough hes trying to convince us hes not)

[frail wasp]

that's the average new player

[buoyant oar]

Standing up and refusing to play is

[frail wasp]

nobody's entitled to the new player's time

[south prawn]

Ohh let me clarify - this was 15 sessions in

[still plover]

Some folk still play the Original version, it's okay to have a preference.

[river vector]

bruh. My lich is trying the same stuff. To convince the group he is good. While he is invading the world.

[glad arch]

In his defence we (I...) did attack first

[frail wasp]

if they want to leave, thats their right

[ripe nimbus]

you know part of the reason players are so attached to their first characters is because they spent an hour on them…

[buoyant oar]

No they're not. But if your expectations have been communicated. That's not on the DM. That's what I'm saying. If they want to politely leave that's completely fine.

[ripe nimbus]

if character creation took shorter youd get attached to the ones that survive adventures and such

[south prawn]

Or days in the case of brand brand new

[glad arch]

Though seeing as we got the gem i have a feeling the pwk would have been used a bit later even if i hadnt

[frail wasp]

sure if the DM says "you may die in the first encounter" beforehand, and the new player dies in the first encounter, and the new player leaves the game, technically nobody's at fault

[still plover]

Maybe just start them at level two with the max HP patch.

[ripe nimbus]

as it stands my open table policy is now “if you come without a character or die in the session, simple pregens only, you can respec between sessions”

[frail wasp]

thats just fate I guess

[ripe nimbus]

i like lethal games though

[south prawn]

Don't know if able to mention the site here or not - but the guy making Fast Character (website) is on to something. Problem is I'm not a fan of the layout

[still plover]

Then you gotta find the compromise that works for you and your table. Sounds like (#dnd-discussion message) you have that covered.

[buoyant oar]

When I say emotional dysregulation I'm not saying that the player is not entitled to feel a certain way. The way that it was phrased as in standing up and just refusing to play is a lot different than saying that an experience is not for them personally, and leaving gracefully.

[river vector]

If the party attacks my lich, he would use defensive spells, while busy trying to convince the party that he is good. Because he wants to use them as pawns.

[flint ledge]

I think people getting invested into their characters is a good thing, unlike from what I heard from some older editions where pumping out new characters was considered normal

[south prawn]

Didn't Beyond just rollout a quick character builder just yesterday?

[umbral girder]

Yes

[south prawn]

I haven't checked it out, but saw an ad on socials

[river vector]

He wants to use them as assassins to kill his political enemy

[slender stump]

Nah i kinda get his point. It feels weird for characters to not have a defined "niche" (subclass) they can fit into.
I made a homebrew system of signatures where every level until you gain your subclass you can take "free samples" of the subclass' traits. These reduced traits are called signatures. And it works pretty well.

[buoyant oar]

Oh I love it when people get invested in characters. Don't get me wrong on that. But managing expectations is important from both a player and a DM thing.

[flint ledge]

It's in #dnd-announcements too

[frail wasp]

i'll also put it out there that a new player making a character in 15 minutes is ambitious ... i think on average it would take them longer than that just to read all the species and pick one

[buoyant oar]

That's why whenever I am doing a new player, I always have a backup in case their character dies that they can play temporarily

[glad arch]

Yeh were collecting keys to a castle which the story is centered around and hes trying to tell us thats bad. But the only bad thing that has happened with the 2 keys we collected is he shows up in a nearby city and channels his inner thanos and kills half the town

[river vector]

And he's trying to convince the party he is good? LMAO

[glad arch]

So we'll see where that ends

[river vector]

my warlock actually made a side pact with my Lich

[flint ledge]

"Slaughtering half the city was necessary, belive me"

[river vector]

I gave him a few extra powers

[glad arch]

Maybe not that hes good, but that what we think is saving the world is actually bad. Honestly not sure what the purpose of killing half a town is

[river vector]

"Perfectly balanced, as all things should be"

[glad arch]

Im hoping to stay in the nearest town when we get another key to confront him. And warn the villagers of his coming

[river vector]

Lich: PWK

[ripe nimbus]

you still got invested in your characters in earlier editions, once they survived a few adventures and you had actual stories to tell abt them

[glad arch]

He seems open to discussion... ill get the cleric on standby

[river vector]

Nah what would be evil is DM casting power word pain

[river vector]

Imagine he shows up with an army this time

[potent vector]

Not sure if I agree when Cleric and Warlock get Divine Order and Eldritch Invocations respectfully, which both are build defining features

[ripe nimbus]

i let players in 5.5 choose subclass at level 1 for cleric, warlock, and sorcerer if they know what they want, in exchange for pushing divine order, eldritch invocations, and innate sorcery to lvl 3

[flint ledge]

I just have people decide what subclass they want to get into when they pick classes like warlock or sorcerer

[slender stump]

No, i mean in flavour! It feels weird for the level 1 fighter to just be a fighter. Its just a thing to help give characters identity through new and unique traits.

[atomic kayak]

Clerics definitely still have a deity (well. assuming they are one of those types of clerics, since clerics don't need one in general), warlocks still have a patron, sorcerers still have a source of their powers.

All of the flavor is/can be literally identical to the 2014 phb.

Just because you don't have any specific abilities from your power source doesn't mean you A) don't have any powers from your power source (you wouldn't be your class if you didn't) and B) don't have a power source (See point A)

[empty thicket]

A weapon could be more than just +3?
Like +5 or smt like that?

[potent vector]

TY

[flint ledge]

Officially no. But homebrew wise yeah

[minor cargo]

In 5E, the DMG highly suggests stopping at +3. If you want to go stronger, add an ability/feature like “flaming”.

[atomic kayak]

Being flaming does make something stronger its true

[empty thicket]

its just numbers up so, wont be too much problem i guess and it would help to make some weapons shine a bit more
Like daggers

[flint ledge]

Honestly higher than +3 to attack rolls isn't necessary imo. If you think the weapon needs something more just add some magical effect or extra damage

[crystal latch]

It won't break anything to make a +4 or +5 weapon, but it's usually better and cooler to make, idk, a +3 flame tongue

[minor cargo]

Yeah. 5E has a core pillar of “bounded accuracy”. So AC never balloons super high - hence suggesting stopping at +3. At this point, you’re probably beating AC anyways.

[buoyant oar]

I know the Divine magic in the Forgotten Realms at least, comes from a god, always, but it's not necessarily required for that God to have a personal relationship nor is anything mentioned about them ever taking power away.

[flint ledge]

Maybe Ao doesn't approve of taking power away again

[buoyant oar]

Perhaps he doesn't. Ever since the time of troubles Divinity in the Realms has gotten a lot less vibes based

[flint ledge]

Though I don't imagine deities will give you more power (level ups) if you annoy them

[buoyant oar]

I ran with that once. A cleric of Kelemvor, joined up and allied with band of necromancers. I had to be like, if you want to keep advancing and cleric powers and your devotion to your God. You're going to have to find someone else to sponsor you because he's not going to anymore

[violet cave]

if you annoy someone like Lolth she'll probably do something worse than take your powers away

[woven flint]

Why would a Cleric of Kelemvor ally with Necromancers?

[flint ledge]

If you annoy Lloth you're very likely to be jumped by a group if Drow soon after

[buoyant oar]

Good question. I still have no idea

[woven flint]

That kinda seems counterintuitive given the Deity they worship 😭

[buoyant oar]

It's okay. These guys are ethical. Necromancers was the excuse I got

But they were red Wizards. That's the least type of ethical you can be

[violet cave]

if you don't get turned into a drider that is

[umbral girder]

Well not all necromancers bring back the dead

[woven flint]

Ethical as in...
Summoning the Undead instead of raising them?

[umbral girder]

Some Necromancers study the school so they can destroy the undead

At least according to the 2014 PHB

[violet cave]

to be fair not all necromancy spells are about raising dead

[reef tundra]

I use the dead to destroy the dead

[violet cave]

inflict wounds and false life for example

[reef tundra]

Very true

[woven flint]

Just use holy magic ez

[buoyant oar]

A black and white entity such as the Lord of the dead would be unlikely to see the nuance in such a scenario is what I explained to the player

Kelemvor Is one of the few gods that's specifically stripped himself of nuance to make himself better at his job.

[woven flint]

As long as they're not raising dead, I'm sure he'd be fine with it

[still plover]

You have become the very thing you hated!

[woven flint]

Wait..

I read somewhere that Kelemvor had a family curse as a Mortal
Does anyone know what that curse is?

[buoyant oar]

With him specifically, his clergy is charged with the destruction of Undead in all shapes, forms, and styles. They are an affront to him

[reef tundra]

Being a werepanther I believe

[buoyant oar]

His curse when it befell upon him, he would change shape into a wild panther

[woven flint]

Dude?!
That makes me love him even more lol

[reef tundra]

He is pretty cool

[flint ledge]

What would you guys say is his stance on dhampirs? They're not entirely undead and usually not voluntarily so

[woven flint]

Kelemvor is like..
Top three Deities for me

[buoyant oar]

The curse would only manifest, when he would try to perform an act of any kind without asking for a reward

So it forces him and his family into this transactional relationship with everybody

[woven flint]

Kelemvor, Oghma and Hoar are my top 3 favorite deities so far 🧐

[reef tundra]

I would pay to watch Kelemvor duke it out with Myrkul

My money would be on Kelemvor because he is the goat

[buoyant oar]

Most vampires are not vampires voluntarily. Any creature that has anything to do with undeath should be destroyed in his eyes

[violet cave]

Myrkul is probably the most chill out of the dead three

[buoyant oar]

He sent one of his best friends to the wall of the faithless when it still stood because that was the rules.

[woven flint]

"There have been many Lords of Death who cast judgment upon souls lost and found alike. Among them was Kelemvor, a hard man of harder convictions. As a mortal man, he was a mercenary with a paladin's stoic beliefs hidden under a crust of scowls and grumbles. As Lord of Death, he was forced to mellow both aspects of himself, for the impulses of a man and a god are not consummate. Mortals are allowed caprice, but immortality wears that stone smooth quickly, and Kelemvor chose cool prudence over cold malice."

The chadliest

[reef tundra]

True

[buoyant oar]

The dude even adopted a death mask so you could not see his emotions when he judges you

[reef tundra]

Fine, I wanna watch Bane duke it out with Kelemvor

[reef tundra]

Okay now that's metal af

[woven flint]

He's truly the coolest Death God

[buoyant oar]

When you get to talk to him and Neverwinter nights 2, it's one of the best moments in D&D

You get to have a long conversation where you try to get him to justify what he does

[woven flint]

The rest are just Edgelords
And Kelemvor is like... THE LEGEND!

[violet cave]

I've got a cleric of kelemvor character that I wanna play in a campaign someday

[buoyant oar]

And if you want to see him fight any God, Cyric is like his number one op

[violet cave]

she's half shadar kai but I'm not sure yet what her relationship with the raven queen would be

[woven flint]

I've played a Tabaxi Cleric of Kelemvor (looks at my pfp)

I had a Shadar-Kai who could give 10 shits less about the Raven Queen, he was just happy to be out of the Shadowfell

[buoyant oar]

Raven Queen is just Walmart brand genderbent Kelemvor

[reef tundra]

All roads lead back to Kelemvor

[violet cave]

How would Kelemvor and Raven Queen feel about each other

[buoyant oar]

I'm so sad that they gave him a death mask to cover his face. Because that dude has mutton chops for days

[violet cave]

Cause they basically have the same goals

[reef tundra]

Even my homebrew goddess of death with depression is just Kelemvor

I should make a playdate for the two sad little gods of death