dnd-discussion

[serene jolt]

And the thought of an adventuring party going on a mission to "clear out" a cave, killing a bunch of kobolds who were just protecting their home, and a dragon, and then taking all its loot... Is objectively evil too.

I have some missions/campaigns where I'm thinking to myself "This is... Terrible. But my character will be thinking about the gold and loot. So 🤷 Here we go."

Then pin it as 'defending yourself' as if you didn't just waltz into someone's home casting fireball.

[fossil hollow]

what did i miss

[hot marlin]

Indeed. If you attack the dragon just for the hoard, you are little more than a murderer and a thief. Or... It's rightful plunder.

[still plover]

Introduction to Ethics hosted by Incubus.

[fossil hollow]

Making use of your University funding eh?

[hot marlin]

Plunder is seen positively by some societies. The Ironborn of A Song of Ice and Fire who take pride in the fact that they "do not sow" and that it is more honourable to take through violence are only an exaggeration of certain actual historical trends.

[serene jolt]

I'm talking about how dnd parties are evil. They're going into deeper more insightful messages that my brain doesn't wrap around fully.

[frail wasp]

some* dnd parties

[hot marlin]

Again, is it "objectively" evil? No. It's subjectively evil. And that subjectivity, in cinema, is called directing. The director is the one who decides if an action is good or evil. Through the music and the camera angle

[woven flint]

D&D parties typically, overall, are ij the moral grey area tbh

[frail wasp]

the ones that are stopping the gods from blowing up the world and the ones that are sealing the magic that's gonna consume the nation, they not evil

[woven flint]

If you kill Evil creatures, society views it as a good thing, even if said evil creature had a family

[serene jolt]

Sorry most DnD Parties. Not all of them.

[still plover]

One of my Grim Fels scenarios starts with goblins raiding a farm. They're there to steal food as their caves have become less habitable on account of the ghouls. The party don't know about that part until they catch up, and then it's possibly a negotiation.

I've had parties chat it out. I've had others draw swords in an area with goblin young. The choice is theirs.

[hot marlin]

My favourite example is Darth Vader vs Grima Wormtongue. On the surface, it's the same thing. The bad guy's underling, having been abused by that bad guy, kills the bad guy while their back is turned. When Grima Wormtongue does it, it's moral condamnation, it's the action of a man who was a coward to his last breath. When Darth Vader does it, it's redemptive. But it is exactly the same action. So why is it good when Darth Vader does it? Because the director decided to communicate that it was

It's not about the action. It's about the framing.

[iron cosmos]

Hi

[hot marlin]

Of course, I do think that Vader killing Palpatine in the back is not redemption. It's the last act of a man who lived an utterly worthless life, who destroyed everything around him, and who further damns himself by confirming his deep cowardice. But I'm not George Lucas. I disagree with George Lucas, but George Lucas decides how the film presents it

[iron cosmos]

No I do mauhahaha

[hot marlin]

I in fact have more sympathy for Grima Wormtongue than with Vader, but that may be some contrarian tendencies speaking

You understand what I mean, yes?

[still plover]

Sure! Anakin was manipulated, yes, but never powerless. He had all manner of opportunities to change his course.

[knotty vine]

Let’s get married via ceremony

[hot marlin]

There's a great 20th century novel by Nabokov that's about that tension. The point was simple. Make the narrator the worst person imaginable, have them justify the horror they commit, and train the reader to see the manipulation, the way he lies and constantly tries to make the horrors he inflicts be looked upon as normal. That is one of the rare situations where the "director" actually wants their audience to go against the subjectivity presented.

[knotty vine]

Does that one ceremony thing still work

[hollow stone]

i just generally don't like Star Wars that much because there are so many instances where it sounds like they're just covering up mistakes they made in the films as free content

[frail wasp]

thats what gives me strength as a DM

my mistakes can be opportunities for lore --- wow my campaign suddenly has a lot of lore

[hot marlin]

So anyways, back to the origin point: Yep, D&D party often default to not respecting the dignity of their enemies. But there are so many factors playing into this that this phenomenon exists at the intersection of sociology, politics, history, game design and media analysis.

[hollow stone]

like Order 66, that never came up in the original trilogy because George forgot that jedi are extraordinarily rare in the original 3 films and accidentally made them too prevalent in the first of the prequels and then decided to just go "ykw? kill 'em" and then forgot that most cultures don't like genocide and then made it seem like The Emperor was polarizing the populace with propaganda against them

[hot marlin]

This is... Very out of the scope of this conversation I think

[hollow stone]

yea no i appeared with no context, saw star wars and said the thing

[empty thicket]

i dont understimate my enemies most of time

but at the same time im a really arrogant fighter so, i stand my ground knowing i might not be alive or in 1 piece

[still plover]

I dunno. I'm kinda hoping that this generation has more awareness of others and value of empathy, even in the fantasy adventure elfgames. There can always be the implacable foes, juxtaposed against the valiant heroes. Enemies who lack that empathy, who are tyrannical, who are driven by their own motivations heedless of the cost to others.

(Funnily enough we just went past a bit in Penitent by Dan Abnett where the title character, considering her own actions and course forward, asks herself "what is the Imperium if not its people?")

[hot marlin]

This generation? Eh, not sure. There's sociology at play

[feral fulcrum]

A spooky psychic Skeleton in a cool chair- possibly wrong Imperium?

[hot marlin]

All in all, there's a question fundamental to it: How do we engage with media?

Do we accept the terms dictated to us by the material? Or do we engage with them, meaning that we might refute them?

Back to Star Wars, I find the terms dictated by the material to be ignorant at best

That is why I can't really like it. I overthink it.

[feral fulcrum]

It is a very Black/White setting in general.

[hot marlin]

Nothing wrong with that. But you have to establish what is bad about your villain and what is good about your heroes

Take Tolkien. Again, very black and white, but Tolkien excels at showing why Sauron is bad.

Because Sauron is... Well, I could say that he is the personification of an attitude of domination. Domination of others, domination of the environment. Everything seen only through the value they contribute to "the grand vision".

While the morality embraced by the heroes is one of the small things. Refusal of the big picture, the big vision, beauty in the simplicity that is destroyed and incinerated in the forges

We will never outgrow Tolkien, I fear. But regardless, you see where the mastery lies

[hollow stone]

i mean, inevitably, as early creatures the media we consume will likely be consumed by its ideals, those concepts becoming part of us, right?

like how every single kids show in existence tries to teach kids to be kind, to hope they assume such an ideal

[hot marlin]

People are more complex than that. What happens when you've consumed media with different viewpoints, different attitudes, different ideas, different moralities?

You grow through contrast.

The dialectic, meaning the way the ideas presented to you clash, lets you develop your individual thoughts

[hollow stone]

this is true

[hot marlin]

So, why do people play characters who would kill fleeing enemies in the back? Refuse surrender and kill them while they're on their knees? Torture them for information?

The simplest answer, by which I mean a truthful but woefully insufficient answer, is that they want their characters to be cool.

And they were exposed to media that has spent the last twenty years telling you that this is cool

Twenty five to be exact

[charred swift]

Hey guys quick question, is warcaster still worth for a cleric of 19 Wis, 17 Con, if the dm ain’t tracking somatic components?

[frail wasp]

sure

[proven mountain]

Warcaster is always helpful

[jagged jungle]

they drop loot

More information = more loot and xp

[hot marlin]

There is no worthwhile loot from nameless orc n°23

They have an axe and an armor. This is not worth the encumbrance, or the act of killing someone

[jagged jungle]

Nameless orc in theory is wearing armor which can be sold

[frail wasp]

some orcs do have magic itens

[jagged jungle]

Also it feels good to level up and slaying my enemies helps me level up

[hot marlin]

No. Beating your enemies makes you level up. If they're running away, they're beaten. It's not worth the arrow

[frail wasp]

running away enemies can go get reinforcements, which can speed your levelling up if you defeat the reinforcements too

[keen valve]

I think it's more interesting to have a character like that, but then play them differently. Like, growing a conscience. I think it grows to be more satisfactory in the end.

Change is kind of fun, afterall.

And figuring out why it happened makes out for a far more interesting journey.
"Why didn't they kill that person fleeing?"
"Why did they spare this prisoner?"
"Why didn't they punch that kid for his lolipop?"

[jagged jungle]

Ohh true

[hot marlin]

Again, their armor, which might have some value, is also heavy. Mechanically, it's not worth transporting. Time-wise, it's not worth the minutes it takes to remove it from a corpse.

[frail wasp]

eh minutes aren't scarce

[hot marlin]

Not to mention that if they're dead, this means their armour is likely to have failed. Might not be much more than scrap metal at that point

[frail wasp]

just cause the armor can't stop fireball doesn't mean its failed armor

[jagged jungle]

But am I really the bad guy for killing the guy running away when I was attacked first

[frail wasp]

what alignment does it say at the top of your char sheet?

[hot marlin]

If it didn't stop fireball, and that person died from a fireball, that means the flesh melted, the armour was heated, and is likely to be ruined. At the very least, the flesh is now glued to the inside of the armour.

[jagged jungle]

Chaotic neutral because I feel like doing what benefits me most

[frail wasp]

fine, just because the armor can't stop cone of cold doesn't mean its failed armor

[hot marlin]

Cone of cold, no. That one's fine

But someone who died from a melee attack?

[frail wasp]

a little bit bad but not like 80% percentile bad

[hot marlin]

By "failed" I do not mean the armour was badly made. I mean that armours are supposed to break before the body does.

That's the point of protection. It's the thing that breaks instead of you

[wintry spindle]

Whats the discussion about?

[frail wasp]

killing enemies that are running away i think

[hot marlin]

At this point I am not sure

[jagged jungle]

Ig the morality of killing people/creatures

[wintry spindle]

I guess it depends on the tone of the game

[jagged jungle]

For the cave of kobolds example I feel like unless the dragon that’s hoarding the wealth got it through normal means rather than raiding and pillaging its a net positive

Sure the kobolds are defending their home but I as the adventurer am recovering the property of people who were stolen from

[wintry spindle]

I mean depends on the lore of how Kobolds are alignment wise. If they are known as evil critters then make sense you will kill them. But if they are neutral then it becomes complicated

[frail wasp]

in one village they're known as evil critters, in a neighboring village they're known as neutral ... how do you figure out which one is right

[wintry spindle]

I assume then it's up to the tone of the game. Is morale choiced an aspect of it then you try to continplate more on it

But if you do 80% dungeon crawls stopping up in the middle of a game and valuing lives gets a little mucky

[jagged jungle]

Depends on what village I’m associated with

Mechanically it would probably be a bonus if I leave the kobolds alive in the neutral bonus

[wintry spindle]

You can always just kick their ass non lethally to show dominance and recruit them

[frail wasp]

ahhhh, pokemon morality

[wintry spindle]

or like prison rules

Beat their leader become the leader

[river vector]

I just finished the curse of strahd card reading. I think my party is screwed.

[feral fulcrum]

That really depends on the armor really. If your Full Plate is breaking, somethings gone terribly wrong.

[hot marlin]

If you're dead, something has indeed gone terribly wrong

[glass granite]

If your full plate is breaking, you’re probably dead

[fossil hollow]

"Your team is breaking"

[stiff rock]

i'm still recovering from that game

[fossil hollow]

LMAO, i was hoping someone got it

[stiff rock]

i'm gonna be playing it with friends in like half an hour so it's at the front of my mind lol

[undone rain]

For honor flashbacks

I still hear shaman shouting every day

[rare ember]

I might've broken my dm.
To start, i play a rogue. During a quest i found a bag of tricks which i used a session later and i got a giant badger. The dm let me keep the badger and we made a quest to make it immortal. During the last week's session we fought our BBEG which was our friend being posessed by the godess that the character worshipped. The dm proposed that the boss has 50 hp, i replied that i might kill it in 2 turns. The dm changed the hp to 100. I made my badger grapple and push the bbeg to the ground and i repeatedly sneak attacked it to death with the rapier.
In the end, the dm raised the HP of it to 250 until he gave up because he kept failing the strenght saves. Should i apologise my dm and beg for him to not explode my badger?

[fossil hollow]

what level are you all

[rare ember]

3, we started the campaign in october

[fossil hollow]

50 hp is pretty damn low for a BBEG

[rare ember]

The dm is kinda new, also the bbeg had some busted spells and infinite spell slots... But badger stronger

[arctic bobcat]

Are there any mini poisonous plant thingys

Like living ones. I cant seem to find any

[hot marlin]

Yeah this whole thing screams new DM

[signal ore]

Can someone link me the homebrew channel, it's not showing up for me

[fossil hollow]

techniucally speaking, all plants are poisonous :P
But I think the Corpse flower has a poison aura

[arctic bobcat]

Balright

I just need something low cr to add some flavour to a travel sesh

Lowkey might js make my own

[idle oar]

Check id:browse and #channel-guide but to your question: #homebrew

[signal ore]

Thank you ❤️

[fossil hollow]

Theres also the Chaimberlain of Zuggtmoy, Zugg herself Gas Spore Fungus, to name a few more

Oh, also the Violet Fungus

[rare ember]

We also scammed the gay archwizard that made dave (The badger) immortal. He asked my character to bring him the helmet of his loved one that died from a monster. I peer pressured my party's sorcerer into using minor illusion on the pot so it looks like the helmet.

[woven flint]

Hope that wizard gets vengeance on you

[fossil hollow]

... wow

[vivid owl]

Immortality has to be one of the worse curses to get roleplay wise

[rare ember]

Next session i tried to walk in to sell some magic necklace i found. The instant i walked in i got hit with downcasted fireball for 2d6 damage leaving me at 3 HP for the rest of the day.

[river vector]

Should I redraw the cards for Curse of Strahd? They got garbage locations

[rare ember]

Its a badger, we thought to lobotomize it so it never becomes sentient

[vivid owl]

oh mb, I thought dave the badger was some homebrew race 😔

[vivid owl]

Prolly should if it's going to make the locations buns

[river vector]

Sunsword and Tome are both in Ravenloft.

Holy symbol is in van richtens tower

[rare ember]

It also means that the dm gets to do the most gruesome shit to dave, he got ripped in half by an orc once

Poor Dave.

[river vector]

Their ally is Arrigal

The Vistani Assassin|| that betrays them at the end if strahd dies ||

[vivid owl]

If dave dosen't feel pain, I would use dave as a trap finder

[vivid owl]

I only understand like 40% of this because I have only played cursed by strahd

[rare ember]

He does feel pain, he just regrows. The bodyparts of his just get pulled together. If they can't get together or they're too far away, they deteriorate and appear on Dave.

[vivid owl]

[Homebrew version of curse of strahd]

[vivid owl]

Any way you guys can remove the immortality?

[rare ember]

The mage warned us. You can't.

You could submerge him in acid fully

[hollow lance]

I just realised the repeat save for feeblemind is (practically) useless since your int is 1 and it's an int save

[vivid owl]

Personally nothing is impossible in D&D in my opinion, but that's table to table

[rare ember]

Or starve him until he passes out, then he is turned off until food touches his stomach acid.

[vivid owl]

Could use the wish spell

But that's alot to spend on a pet

[kindred ginkgo]

Chat. If I cast resurrection on armor made from a monster does the wearer go inside the monster or is that not allowed

[rare ember]

Yeah...

[vivid owl]

also most campaigns don't even get to level 9 spells

[hollow lance]

you could always make him sleep with the fishes, if he's alive still during that he'll wish he wasn't

[rare ember]

Theoretically if you cast friends on it, it becomes the immortal snail

[kindred ginkgo]

Does it work or not?

[rare ember]

After a minute, its a vicious badger.

[vivid owl]

Hm

Well, how recently did the monster die

[kindred ginkgo]

Idk like two weeks ago

[vivid owl]

Kind of hard to do that on someone because it's an hour to cast

[kindred ginkgo]

Theoretically if it did work though

[vivid owl]

So yeah, you could probably do it on a very sleepy monster hunter

[kindred ginkgo]

Ok

DID YOU JUST SAY MONSTER HUNTER

[vivid owl]

monster hunter reference [real]

[kindred ginkgo]

No gifs ? Why

[signal ore]

I want this campaign I'm working on to start players at a massive disadvantage, is -2 too much for this goal? I'm creating a homebrew system where I wanna have players train their stats instead of level ups, but is starting like this too punishing? Also is this question better suited for homebrew, I don't know because I'm not trying to ask about adding mechanics here so Idk

[vivid owl]

Thems the rules

[kindred ginkgo]

That’s poopy but whatever

[vivid owl]

Like, -2 in stats?

[kindred ginkgo]

I’m going to be leaving now

[potent vector]

. . . They REALLY forgor to specify "in an unoccupied space" somewhere important didn't they lmao

[feral fulcrum]

Because it'd get really spammy, really frequently, which the moderators of this large public server, would rather not deal with.

[vivid owl]

If they have a -2 in all stats, they will just die instantly

[signal ore]

In everyone yes, or the core 6 anyway

[potent vector]

If they're Long Resting/Asleep . . .

[signal ore]

Oh

Is -1 better?

[vivid owl]

0 is brain dead, int wise

[potent vector]

-2 to every score? Rolled or Point Buy/Standard Array?

[vivid owl]

Are the stats starting at -2, or are they rolling then adding a negative

[potent vector]

They either mean a penalty to score, I believe, or 6-7 scores (-2 modifier).

[vivid owl]

Also if they don't level up, they won't gain health unless they do constitution which won't help much

[potent vector]

@signal ore So, which is it between these two?

-2 penalty to all 6 stats or flat starting stats of 6/7?

[paper portal]

-2 is fine if the encounters you throw at them are weak enough, all difficulty is relative

[vivid owl]

[I play 3.5 alot so my thought instantly went to the base stats literally being in the negatives, that's on me]

[signal ore]

I honestly don't even know :<
I'm trying to create a homebrew system though, it's been a while since I revised it and I can't remember how to balance stuff. I did a bunch of research before but I stopped working on it so I can't remember; I also haven't gotten to play dnd yet

Idk what the hell I'm doing 🙁

[vivid owl]

I would suggest not doing a homebrew system if you haven't played D&D yet

Maybe a couple of one-shots first

[potent vector]

Ahhh. Homebrewing before you've played vanilla is always going to be rougher*.

[vivid owl]

One-shots are a life saver for new DM's

[paper portal]

and new players too

[agile pulsar]

what channel would I walk to in order to ask an environmental question about wanting to make a cooking scenario related to dungeon meshi?

I want to know if I make a super hot cave, they'll be able to steam things...

[potent vector]

Or mini campaigns. I had a 7-day boss rush that did wonders for kick-starting my DMing

[signal ore]

How would I set that up?

[vivid owl]

We should probably move to #dm-discussion

[potent vector]

Vanilla, set a one and done mission for a single session, that you know you can manage

[paper portal]

yeah oneshots are really good for letting people test out the mechanics without actually needing to do a campaign

[hidden spindle]

You could start with 1d4 Exhaustion levels.

[paper portal]

better to make it a set amount cus thats just gonna screw over anyone with bad rolls for the whole game

[potent vector]

They prob meant 1d4 to decide for the whole party

So a 4 would give everyone 4 levels

[viral kraken]

1d4 to determine which character gets 6 levels of exhaustion

[glad arch]

Everyone rolls a d6 at the start of the game, odds are someone will die before their characters first word

[burnt valley]

At Level 1?????

[potent vector]

(scroll down)

[viral kraken]

gosh i think one of the people in the party i get to play in has 3 levels of exhaustion now, they better start working on a new character sheet if they don't get some sleep soon

[glad arch]

Wizard cries in -2 con

4hp

[glad arch]

Berserker barbarian?

Berserker barbarian is such a bs subclass, they need some way to get rid of exhaustion easier than long rest

[twin quartz]

Yo is it physically possible to do a mage barb

[paper portal]

berserker is probably the single worst subclass in 5e yeah

[glad arch]

Possible yeh, advisable no

[paper portal]

there's a wild magic subclass but otherwise not without RAW shenanigans

[burnt valley]

No

[glad arch]

You can multiclass wizard and barbarian, wont be good though

[hidden spindle]

Rock Gnome Barbarian

[twin quartz]

I have a plan trust

[glad arch]

For some reason im doubting youre the one to have cracked the wizard barbarian multi class but i aint stopping you

[burnt valley]

The class features actively work against eachother

[glad arch]

Slightly discounted plate armor /j

[severe rampart]

How

[glad arch]

Ball bearings are not worth that much but hey if the dm said yes

[vivid owl]

ball bearings made of diamonds?

[severe rampart]

Ball bearings with a piece of mystra's soul in them

[glad arch]

1gp for the bag of ball bearings

[vivid owl]

ball bearings that can summon a deity

[severe rampart]

Did you think one ball = 1 gold? 😭

[glad arch]

The seller said they were premium ball bearings though...

Worth every gold piece

[vivid owl]

ball bearings forged by dwarves, blessed by the church, enchanted by the elves, and gaurded by the dragons

[viral kraken]

what if they got rid of two levels each long rest? i just feel bad for them, since we are missing long rests already due to the Dream spell

gotta convince that dm to let them get some extra pep back in their step

[severe rampart]

Oh the DM thought it was one gold per ball lmao

[glad arch]

Yeh idk how but they need some feature that interacts with exhaustion. Something to reduce the 'damage', something to recover from them quicker, maybe even a con save of a increasing dc per day to not get exhausted

[severe rampart]

You're oversaturating the ball bearing market, now all equipment are 10x the price

[glad arch]

Yeh thats problem players behaviour, mention it to the dm and let then decide on how to resolve this

Dm made a mistake, you found out. Only right to fess up

[viral kraken]

that would probably feel cool, doing a save at the end of it to see if they even get exhaustion. would make them feel real powerful when they don't get the exhaustion

[glad arch]

Honestly i actually really like that idea now that i think of it. Start it at like dc 10 for the first time of the day then increase by 5 for every succesfull save

Still means you cant just spam it but its way less debilitating

And it ties in with barbarians high con stat

[woven flint]

Finishing up my Air Genasi artificer 🧐

[severe rampart]

Joining a oneshot where I'm guaranteed to die... what's the best class to use that gives me the best fighting chance...

I guess this is just the question of, what is the best class at level one?

[crimson gulch]

Are you playing a faster purple worm kill kill kill game?

[unreal plaza]

is there anywhere I can ask a moderator a question?

[idle oar]

#moderator-support and ask for a private thread

[unreal plaza]

OH HAHA

[severe rampart]

It is CoS oneshot, at level one, so I'm guaranteed to die

[glad arch]

Play a goblin named boblin

If youre truly guaranteed to die no point in trying for a fighting chance as there isnt one with 'guaranteed' id say just make a fun character and go with the flow

[crimson gulch]

Make a character designed to be a snack for strahd then

[severe rampart]

I want to play a martial for like the first time

[severe rampart]

Oh yeah

Barbarian or Fighter... An overconfident guy making their way through Barovia

[glad arch]

Original ideas truly are dead, not the first person with this idea. Am atleast 5 years late

[viral kraken]

oh lol good to know

[reef tundra]

They’re fun. Very fun

[vivid owl]

Oh really, what about a barbarian/fighter/wizard/rogue multi-class that uses magic skates and uses oversized toothpicks as portable gym equipment, and they also have a pet dog named Bartholomew john zip dorpies the third regent of hullahoop

[severe rampart]

thinking about Fighter Archer, or Berserker

[reef tundra]

Playing berserker is just a strange type of fun

Plus at level 6 immunity to being frightened or charm is amazing

[severe rampart]

Unfortunately it is level 1

[reef tundra]

It truly is just playing a killing machine

[severe rampart]

so I might just go with the Fighter Archer

[reef tundra]

Fire away

Wait, what is it you’re supposed to say with bows?

Loose?

[severe rampart]

Aim Straight?

and for the species... hmm...

[vivid owl]

fairy!

[severe rampart]

uh oh, it's 2014 ruleset, where are the experts when ya need 'em

time to get a Cleric

[crimson gulch]

raises hand

[severe rampart]

right, hello Urizt!, from your experience, what's the best level 1 build you've seen in your games? (2014 rules)

[paper portal]

haiiii

[severe rampart]

you too wings :)

[paper portal]

custom lineage (or variant human if ur not about that) cleric with crossbow expert

[severe rampart]

pretty nice iirc, Cleric had subclasses at level 1 back then no?

[paper portal]

yeah

twilight is best ofc

[crimson gulch]

fighter with heavy armor, strength, sheild and Longsword. Defense fighting style, mountian dwarf. For +2 and +2 stats. The backround from the book of many things that gives you the lucky feat

[paper portal]

although if ur just doing level 1 then peace is numbers

[severe rampart]

Can we pretend that airplanes in the night sky are like shooting stars?

[severe rampart]

Scary thinking about it...

[crimson gulch]

19 ac and 14 hp Is hard to beat at level 1

[severe rampart]

And did they survive being John Fighter?

[crimson gulch]

Fighters are the hardest class to kill

I have killed 23 pcs this year, 1 fighter

[severe rampart]

what class got killed the most

wizards?

[crimson gulch]

Sorcerer and warlock

[severe rampart]

Ah I see

[crimson gulch]

A bunch of paladins too

[glass granite]

Paladins are surprising to me

[limber trail]

Interesting

[wispy vector]

Man, first party death today. We're fighting a war with Draconic soldiers while a giant worm is rampaging through both sides.
We got 2 frontliners, me as a maul wielding fighter who fell unconscious but aced his 3 death saves, and our AC-sponge Forge Cleric with 22 AC that got hit like only 3 times throughout the entire campaign. He got mauled by said worm, rolling incredibly high for 3 strikes in a row. Even got a nat 1 on his first death save.

[severe rampart]

Fun for the whole party!

[burnt valley]

If i had a party of fighters, id throw enemy spellcasters with cc spells

[crimson gulch]

I do that anyway, I stunned half my parties at ones alot with mind flyers and such

[wispy vector]

If I had a party of fighters, I'd love to see them shove the BBEG down and unleash all their attacks and Action Surge turn one.

[fickle heart]

EHP-wise, they mostly shine later on.

[crystal latch]

Highest death rate in my campaigns have been fighters (100% of all deaths iirc)

[feral fulcrum]

Sounds like a bad time all around.

[severe rampart]

then the BBEG heals up and enters second phase while their resources are depleted

[knotty vine]

What would be a good replaced for “man im so hungry I could eat a blank” in dnd

[severe rampart]

Really? so far it's been a six way tie for me

[crystal latch]

In one campaign I played in, we had two fighters
It was a level 3 start, iirc they tried sneaking up on a hobgoblin devastator gangster and just got trashed

Rest of the party was sorc 1/hex 2, peace 1/chron 2 and twilight 1/genie 2

[knotty vine]

For me it’s been barbarians

[severe rampart]

nearly seven way tie as the sorcerer just got their foot chopped off

[arctic roost]

what about wizards? they have amazing spells obviously, but pretty garbage hp

[feral fulcrum]

Hungry enough to eat a Nightmare.

[knotty vine]

You can eat nightmares?

[crystal latch]

Wizard has among the best EHP

[feral fulcrum]

Nightmares are Fiendish horses that can traverse between planes

[crystal latch]

Shield spam + control just removes entire martial health pools' worth of enemy DPR

[knotty vine]

If you know how to play a wizard you can make them nearly unkillable

[severe rampart]

Night Mares lol

[feral fulcrum]

It's actually spelled Nightmares

[knotty vine]

There’s a reason why they rank so high

[severe rampart]

man now I'm having that itch to play a oneshot where I'm guranteed to die

[frail wasp]

thats a weird itch D:

[knotty vine]

I have the book for you

[arctic roost]

that's a fair point
i mean false life is one of the first spells you can get that raises your hp now that I think of it-- roll good enough and you have enough hp to effectively be on par with the rest of the group

[crystal latch]

That campaign was technically BGDiA but we ended up never getting to Avernus

[severe rampart]

Purple Worms?

[knotty vine]

Exactly

[severe rampart]

...

perhaps

[knotty vine]

I love the faster purple worm series I played it before it was on dnd beyond

[crystal latch]

Notably, burning slots on false life is the exact way in which the myth of the squishy wizard survives

[knotty vine]

A lot of them are super funny

[severe rampart]

if I were to play Purple Worm it'd likely be by being the DM, and I'd hate to be a DMPC

[knotty vine]

My favorite item has to be barbarian in a box

My only question is when are we getting another potentially broken spell

[arctic roost]

how so? i don't usually play wizards so tell me how you think that stands.

[feral fulcrum]

Going by how they're doing spells in 2024, during the next book release :V

I still can't believe Selunes Viper made print in it's current form

[crystal latch]

False life only gives you a bit of temp HP which is generally a bad trade for a 1st-level slot
Defense-wise, my expectation for a 1st-level slot is saving HP equivalent to Shield making 3-10 attacks miss

[vestal mesa]

hi can anyone help me, im currently in a party we just finished the whole heros of the boarderlands start kit n we are about to start a new campaign lvl 1/12 {i played the rogue in the boarderlands } n now im being told that we need a scout n everyone doesnt want to play it so i will have to do it again so i thought go a rogue again but my DM said dont play a rogue a ranger is better {first he said dont play a fighter u need a scout} then i made a scout druid n he is sayin he has a problem with that ?

[severe rampart]

Case by Case scenario imo

[paper portal]

sounds like fighters lol

[fickle heart]

I'm not surprised, considering that it has quite a few drawbacks that hinder it.

[knotty vine]

Still super stupid that if another source of poison is applied it most likely extends the time they are incapacitated

[vestal mesa]

so im currently looking to play dnd online roll20 or something but its super difficult to find a party any help ?

[severe rampart]

If you need the temp hp, likely at levels 1-3, false life can be good, false life is especially used by my Sorcerer player who got cursed with his max hp reduced to 7

[crystal latch]

False Life is 2d4+4 THP, average 9
It's worth it compared to Shield if (and only if) at no point in the adventuring day will you be hit with an attack that deals 9 or more damage

[knotty vine]

Why not use armor of ag instead?

[feral fulcrum]

At those levels it's worth it just to avoid the potential for a huge crit just instantlly killing you

[crystal latch]

AoA is an underwhelming but better spell for another class

[viral kraken]

armor of ag is fun with polymorph

in '24 at least

[crystal latch]

Yeah, that's the one niche it does have

[severe rampart]

Yeah but in his case he dies if anything hits him

[crystal latch]

There's also some potential value in AoA + level 6 clocksorc feature

[arctic roost]

lol

[crystal latch]

But that eats sorc points better spent on making more slots

[paper portal]

probably better with abjurer wizard but thats harder to get aoa on

[crystal latch]

True

[knotty vine]

How do people prefer crits? I do crunchy crits

[crystal latch]

I don't care much about crits

[viral kraken]

what's a crunchy crit?

[severe rampart]

prefer crits?, like either doubling damage or doubling the dice?, I double the dice

[median sinew]

I just made a new charecter

[severe rampart]

is it a wizard

[median sinew]

No it is a paladin

[knotty vine]

Max out the first the first dice and roll another for example if your weapon does 2d6 you do 12+ another 2d6

[paper portal]

have you considered assassin 3 on moon knight :3

[knotty vine]

Crunch crits

[severe rampart]

Doesn't say what it does on the tin /j

[crystal latch]

All wrongs combined make a right

[viral kraken]

ya i like that, did not know it was called that, thought it was named after some person

[severe rampart]

I did not know that

[knotty vine]

It has a few names but I call it churchy cause that’s what I heard it as first

[severe rampart]

Poor bard rolled a nat 20 on poison spray only for the enemy to be immune to it
Then next session they rolled another nat 20 on poison spray only to deal 3 damage

[knotty vine]

Yeah so it actually makes the crit do something so bad rolls kinda don’t effect it

[severe rampart]

I might implement that actually

[knotty vine]

So even if you roll a crit with a 1d12 you still get 12 damage + another dice

[severe rampart]

I'll make it apply to enemies as well though

[knotty vine]

Obvious!

Through seeing the enemy do 30 damage in one hit is something lol

They were fighting a bandit captain and the damage dice on the pistol is 2d10

[severe rampart]

20 + 2d10 damage 💔

[knotty vine]

Yup

[severe rampart]

levels 1-3 instanly disintegrate

[knotty vine]

It’s a dangerous game but also a fun one

[severe rampart]

Ohh yeahh, that might work well with a house rule I implemented not long ago

[knotty vine]

This applies to allll damage dice in the crit btw so like rouges sneak attack and paladins smite to name a few

[severe rampart]

if enemy deals enough damage to not only get you to 0 hp but also have enough damage left over for your hit point maximum, you get a lingering injury

[knotty vine]

Watching a rogue do 5x6 worth of damage and not even roll is soemthing

[severe rampart]

ex: 2/24 hp left, 26 damage dealt, get a linguring injury

[crimson gulch]

Raw is best, roll double the dice feels great

[severe rampart]

Last session my bard player crit on a poison spray and only dealt 3 damage (2d12) 😭

[worn lagoon]

2+1 crazy

[arctic roost]

that's tragic

i tried to use toll the dead, and the enemy rolled a nat 1 on the saving throw just for the dm to realize he was immune

[severe rampart]

the session before that they also rolled a nat 20 on poison spray but the enemy was immune to poison lol

[knotty vine]

That’s why I like max + one damages dice

[severe rampart]

will try to implement that

[hollow hawk]

hey, I have a moral question for y'all

[knotty vine]

How moral is moral

[hollow hawk]

how would you deal with someone who is your best friend, and very enthusiastic about getting into DnD, but is absolutely terrible at playing it?

well, moral is a loose term, kind of

[severe rampart]

What do you mean terrible?

[knotty vine]

When you say.. terrible

Explain a little

[worn lagoon]

you play normally as their party member and when they inevitably feel bad because they're not pulling any weight whatsoever you sit down and teach them

[knotty vine]

I mean there’s many ways a player can be “terrible”

Especially in a loose ended game like dnd

[severe rampart]

they could be making bad builds

[knotty vine]

I’m hoping he says that..

[lyric viper]

You do not have to be good at D&D to enjoy D&D. Rules can be wrong, things can be changed. Expectations on this can be established at the start.

[hollow hawk]

so, we are playing a one shot in a homebrew Warcraft 3 setting, I am DMing, four players... dude is playing a druid, he tries to summon a (small) treant in order to light him on fire and send him into a cave to scout it out

[lyric viper]

Because 'bad builds' is not 'terrible at D&D'

[worn lagoon]

4 monk 4 wizard made me flee the party before it was too late

[hollow hawk]

no no, the build was a premade, not a problem there

[knotty vine]

dig a little deeper we need a bit more context

[severe rampart]

Here's what you do, outline the possible results of the scenario and ask "are you sure you want to attempt to do this?"

[hollow hawk]

I did, took me 5 minutes to get him to understand why would that be wrong to do

[lyric viper]

So the issue is more his strategies and plans don't vibe with the group? The above works pretty well for trying to illustrate why a choice might not be the best idea.

[hollow hawk]

at the end of the session (no kidding) the dude did more damage to his party than to the enemies

[knotty vine]

Yeesh

[arctic roost]

rule of thumb: if the dm says "are you sure" before you try to do something, don't do the thing

[knotty vine]

I do that to mess with my players

[hollow hawk]

I asked that, and I even said "okily dokily" after it...

[knotty vine]

You could be 100% right and I’ll still say “are you sure”

[hollow hawk]

chaotic neutral

[arctic roost]

what did they have to do to warrant an "are you sure?"

[knotty vine]

I like making people second guess themselves

[burnt valley]

Here's a creature I'd suggest using, Intellect Snares

[severe rampart]

gotta make them rethink their actions

[knotty vine]

My question is if a spell such as suggestion won’t allow you to tell a creature to harm itself why would it normally do that

[lyric viper]

If it's a big issue, having a talk about it outside of game might be warranted. My parties been together for years but we'll still need to have an aside to talk about why something didn't feel good and how it occured.

[arctic roost]

/
(oops i did NOT mean to send that-- my phone hit my keyboard and somehow that sent)

[knotty vine]

Even stronger spells like gese(not how you spell it) still says you can’t tell a creature to cause harm to itself

[hollow hawk]

Geas

[knotty vine]

Thank you

But my point is if a spell can’t get a creature to do it I doubt normal words can

[hollow hawk]

makes sense

[paper portal]

i cast geese, it does exactly what you think it does

[knotty vine]

Summons 1d4 geese

[hollow hawk]

dude geese are scary

[knotty vine]

Imma make that a spell now

“Wing’s scary geese”

[burnt grove]

Do you guys.. like ever know you wanna play dnd but can’t ever decide on a character let alone make even a small concept because your brain is corrupt thinking about 2014 iterations and what was Mechanically good rather than roleplaying so now that you want to play like actually play you can’t even think how to finalize a concept? Or that just me?

[feral fulcrum]

It was already a spell

[crimson gulch]

A favorite of mine since I ran phandelver

[feral fulcrum]

Conjure Animals

[hollow hawk]

used to happen to me a lot

[vestal mesa]

when doing looking for DM does it take a while before it goes up on the chat?

[knotty vine]

I know but in some of my games I like throwing in random discord users names into random spells

[frail wasp]

i stopped caring about what's mechanically good after the first time I beat dnd

[burnt grove]

Yea that combined with thinking about the class before the character lol and decision paralysis

[worn lagoon]

it happens. I want to play a necromancer again but lowkey nothing subclass in 14

[knotty vine]

Like “Progamers nice house”

[arctic roost]

you think you have it bad? i'm canadian and every spring we can't use the fields because the geese use that area to poop.

doing that would be the equivalent of casting geese at level 9

[burnt grove]

There is no winning dnd there’s only an end of a story

[feral fulcrum]

Just you. 5E is fairly forigving outside of brutal DM's who'd kill even the most min-maxed guys, and the Modules designed to be meatgrinders.

[hollow hawk]

just get everything randomly picked and make it work

[worn lagoon]

I can't just disregard what's mechanically fun there's the letter g in rpg for a reason

[severe rampart]

I'd get into like "What class and subclass is the best combination?", then after playing them I just abandon the idea of optimization and do what I think is fun

[frail wasp]

if there's no winning, then what's the point of optimization

[hollow hawk]

for two months I had to go to work at 5:30 in the morning through a park that had geese in it... GERMAN GEESE

[burnt grove]

lol I was trained on war games entirely in my early days lol

[knotty vine]

Some people find fun in optimizing

[obsidian pebble]

Something something dnd

[worn lagoon]

It's fun

[burnt grove]

To face the harder challenges of higher level tables that’s it genuinely for more intense experience battles but still there is no winning dnd

[frail wasp]

thats not my point--- optimization is goal oriented

if you can never achieve the goal, its not actually optimization

[arctic roost]

are they worse than canadian geese? because canadian geese are pretty damn mad

[hollow hawk]

yes, they wear white socks and sandals.

[burnt grove]

Shrug they optimize how powerful one can be not how to win

[frail wasp]

power to do what >_>

[burnt grove]

Dnd isn’t a winning game unless you I don’t know beat all the gods, Demi gods, the dungeon master, the devils, the abstracts and all powers that be at once shrug

And even then

[frail wasp]

shrug

i dunno how else to explain it

[hollow hawk]

(and have a goblin NPC pet/henchman)

[uneven berry]

I want to play as my fursona but I don’t want to homebrew do you guys have any suggestions for a spotted hyena\saltwater crocodile mix??
(Not looking for something exactly like that but all I can think of is some kind of lizard folk or something to use for her)
I want to play as a barbarian (giant subclass)

[lyric viper]

Optimization cna be fun, in that it's cool to plan out ideas and have a character that can do cool things. Which is usually how it's understood in D&D spaces- having a little more focus on the build and getting to do the cool thing.

Doesn't have to be at odds with RP or anything else either.

That being said, it's possible to 'optimise the fun' out of a game, breaking immersion with the gameplay by focusing on the numbers and the rules that.. well the rules that are clearly game conveniences.

[burnt grove]

You finished your story plain and simple

That characters journey I mean

[lyric viper]

If you end up getting stuck on 'what if this character isn't good enough'- I'd recommend just saying heck it and doing it anyway. It'll likely play just fine and if you enjoy the flavour and game anyway, it's all good.

[burnt valley]

Pretty nasty if you combine it with Rifflers

[hollow hawk]

it also depends on what kind of game/group do you have...

[lyric viper]

It's getting that balance between 'I love the way this plays' and 'I love the story I'm telling'.

[burnt grove]

Yea lol my problem is asbergers and mechanical decision paralysis lol

[small heath]

Hmm. Maybe a Satarre or Gnoll

[severe rampart]

I loved running Undead Shambling Mound with the past players' corpses on there

[burnt grove]

I think o have a concept now but it’s ehhh idk if I can execute it well

[hidden spindle]

Be an attacker

I have analysis paralysis too so martials are a perfect

[burnt grove]

A disgruntled jester who rages so hard he turned into a barbarian essentially giant barbarian he was disgraced out of his role as town comedian but yea..

That’s about it

But my mind keeps going back to other stuff lol

[uneven berry]

This is somehow my first time seeing a satarre and holy moly I love how they look also ty for the suggestions so much!!!

[burnt valley]

Try a Warlock, building it around solely just Eldritch Blast does wonders (Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast)

[small heath]

NP! For my fursona I had to homebrew, but I based most of it from the Vulpin

[arctic roost]

p a l a d i n

[burnt grove]

Did that already it has the same problem as martials.. you use one thing and done gets boring after like 50 times

[paper portal]

that's why you put 3 levels into echo knight fighter of course

[uneven berry]

Omg that’s so sick!! I love dnd and how creative it can be I wanted to play as my fursona but also one of my friends who hasn’t dmed before is most likely dming so I don’t want to make it more hard for him with homebrew

[burnt valley]

Based but fair enough

[paper portal]

what species is your fursona? there might already be a race for it

[severe rampart]

What was the snake species called again...

[small heath]

Homebrewing is fun but complicated if you don't understand how dndbeyond works with text coding and font stuff.

[paper portal]

yuan-ti

[burnt grove]

Yuan-Ti or pure blood Yuan-Ti there’s also Naga

[uneven berry]

She is a spotted hyena and saltwater crocodile Ik their is races I think for both but I can’t pick which would work best for her and her class

[burnt valley]

My paladin has a pact with his patron that he will lose a limb every time there's a slight temptation to use smites

[arctic roost]

call me basic, but i never understood how multiclassing is superior than sticking to one class. i've never done it before, so could you explain it to me please?

[lyric viper]

Sounds like a good question for #optimization

Gotta let those channels do their jobs.

[burnt grove]

Funner builds in general as you get more features give or take to use and build around

But yea

That’s a good channel to ask

[uneven berry]

I’m very dyslexic and not that well knowing of the site so I tend to not dip my toes into homebrew much sadly

[burnt valley]

You can offset character weaknesses if done right

[arctic roost]

but... but... divine smite!

[stiff rock]

Some class features unintentionally benefit others in ways that sometimes make it advantageous to dip into multiclassing

[small heath]

That's alright. I sent a friend request btw :3

[paper portal]

generally multiclassing is worse than straightclassing, its about knowing which features to pick up that cover your big weaknesses or have the most synergy with the features you already have

echo knight helps warlocks a lot by giving them a second opportunity to eldritch blast, and on someone else's turn no less

[uneven berry]

Omg I see it :D

[stiff rock]

I suppose between tabaxi(cat) and yuan-ti or some other lizard race you need to decide which your fursona is more likely to act like?

[burnt valley]

Synergies doesn't mean its always good either

[arctic roost]

that's kinda overpowered

[burnt valley]

Nuh uh

[arctic roost]

yuh huh!

[burnt valley]

Nyet

[lyric viper]

Folk, please use the most appropriate channel. #character-discussion for general character builds and ideas, #optimization for those optimisation chats

[uneven berry]

I’m so sorry I didn’t even see that channel

[paper portal]

yeah if you know what to look for multiclassing can be very potent

[lyric viper]

No worries! We have a lot. #channel-guide can help out and you can check out more in id:customize

[uneven berry]

Ty

[lyric viper]

But helps when there are multiple discussions happening at once and makes sure the discussions happen in the channels watched by folk most interested in t.

[arctic roost]

but why would a patron do that?
that's kind of what paladins do, it's infamous

[lyric viper]

At this point, this is now an #optimization discussion.

[arctic roost]

alright my bad

[woven flint]

Welcome to the D&D server, friend, may you have many adventures ahead of you 🧐

[unreal plaza]

can someone explain psychic energy dice for me pls? I’m planning to be psyknife rogue

[frail wasp]

its like bardic inspiration dice, except you use them to power yourself instead of giving them out to others

[unreal plaza]

oo, what can I do with them?

[burnt grove]

-have ya read the class?

[unreal plaza]

I can’t really find info but it may just be bc I’m really dumb

[burnt grove]

Ah

[unreal plaza]

Or bc my outlet just exploded and I’m in shock one of the 2

[jolly hound]

Do we like circle of the sea? Is it awesome possum

[frosty garnet]

Giving you fly for no reason is crazy but its also level 10so its lowkey chill

[limber trail]

Fly at level 10 is fine

[frosty garnet]

Yeah exactly

[limber trail]

There are plenty of easier ways to get it

[frosty garnet]

Fly the spell is like a tier 3 slot

[limber trail]

It’s level 3 yeah

[frosty garnet]

Yes that

[limber trail]

(Tier 3 refers to something else in dnd)

[frosty garnet]

Til

[jolly hound]

I’m doing a pirate campaign so I’m trying to pick something thematic lol

[frosty garnet]

That fits perfectly!!

[jolly hound]

I was reading the features and can’t decide if they’re good or not

[frosty garnet]

Thats a great idea actually.

Does it matter if theyre good? Flavour is what truly matters

[jolly hound]

That’s so true

[glass granite]

Circle of the sea ain’t half bad, not my favourite but that’s cuz I haven’t tried it

[jolly hound]

My character idea was that he’s a sailor that drowned and he’s a reborn with a bunch of coral and sea life growing on him

[frosty garnet]

Thats freaking awesome

[glass granite]

Sounds like a good fathomless warlock too, but sea is very fitting

[frosty garnet]

That is genuinely the perfect fit for a sea druid

Give him some kelp clothes

Mmm

Kelp is actually pretty tasty

Few realise this

Hmmm

[jolly hound]

You ever have bull kelp?? It’s pretty good

[frosty garnet]

I gotta

I should

I love kelp

Wait actually i mightve

Wait

[jolly hound]

I’ll check the archives

[frosty garnet]

Isit laminaria

Im guessing not

I genuinely have no idea actually.

But i have eaten at least like 5 types of kelps in my life

Slash seaweed

Hmmmmmmmm

So for my homebrew campaign i kinda have a setting id say

And theres a little mystery

But theres hardly one big quest

Nor exactly a particular bbeg

I wonder if i could just wing it.

[marble lion]

hey experiter as a fellow
typing
in
lines
addict
i recommend you maybe try to type in one big message instead

[frosty garnet]

Rude

[jolly hound]

It’s ok experiter you’re my buddy

[frosty garnet]

So horse magic has vanished so only spellcasting works and thats causing famine and trade deficit and thers a civil war and theres church trouble because the church head elections cant really go off because the senior members were all captured or ransomed or held up or cant travel and they cant start the elections lest they give undue precedent to the officials of those regions which the falling empire would not approve of. Some say the death of horse magic is due to the death of church head boy. Some say its because there are evil cultists. Some say its their border rivals or a work of an enemy state. Some say theres a shadowy conspiracy all across the realms, plotting to destroy all magic one by one, in the name of some secret goal.

But like how do i go about involving my players in that. They would presumably be poor villagers whose wives and dads and husbands and sons and best friend since middle school are dying from no magic disease

(Famine)

Do they just stumble on that eventually? I guess so. Maybe i could get them to go fetch some cardinals

Fetch quest but its cardinals

And they are horses

I was also wondering for a while howd they go about delivering and trading like would they be the horses drawing the horse drawn carriages? And i decided that yes, they will be the horses, carrying the horse drawn carriages.

If you think about it theyre like really big wheelbarrows.

Also i may be a very bad writer but im pretty good at improv i think.

Dang i hardly considered this but would horses have big horse bikes?

What if. Church big boy is the evil one

No thats far too trite.

What if big church head boy not evil, but good, but too good and too powerful, so they had to dispose of him

He got magic powers to change the very fabric of time

And no one could be trusted with such powerful magic

Not even the prettiest fattest church boy ever

Four horsemen of the apocalypse but with a twist: No men

[polar mortar]

[river vector]

Curse of Strahd false advertising. Supposedly about a vampire, yet the villagers of Barovia call Strahd "The Devil". Coincidence? I think not!

[marble lion]

i didnt mean to offend, just a genuine tip from someone who types the same way and consistently has people annoyed at himself for it, besides the mods sometimes tell people off for it too in here

[broken imp]

fr the mods here are strict

[frosty garnet]

Yeahh they are

[marble lion]

well they seem to be chill with it right now, noone has told her off for it yet

[frosty garnet]

Her

[paper portal]

hello dnders

[frosty garnet]

Yo

If im gonna run a homebrew do yall think i should go by 2014 5e or 2024 5.5e actually?

[humble cairn]

When you say homebrew do you mean plot or mechanics?

[paper portal]

5e imo

[frosty garnet]

Plot, but also mechanics, mostly race-wise.

But mainly, plot

I will be having all-unique races so

[humble cairn]

Ok I think 2024 as a system just works smoother, easier to get out of your way and tell the plot you want, also easier to plop different flavors on top. So that would be my recommendation.

[frosty garnet]

Thats a great point. I am pretty much learning from scratch so starting from either is perfectly fine for me

[marble lion]

i really dont think there is a difference between them. pick the one you prefer as a system overall id say

[humble cairn]

And 2024 will have more and more support coming out in the future.

[frosty garnet]

Im honestly not very knowledgeable about the differences lol

[marble lion]

then youll be good with either

[paper portal]

theyre mostly the same game, its just differences in individual features for the most part

[humble cairn]

I've played in both and 2024 works better in about 90%+ of the places where it changed the rules, and then like half of what's left is side grades.

[frosty garnet]

Ill probably just go for the newest one then!

[paper portal]

i disagree, i much prefer the 2014 rules in pretty much every way

[marble lion]

picking "the right" one only really matters if you know both

[paper portal]

its very much down to personal preference

[marble lion]

otherwise both are completely fine for anything

yeah i prefer 2014 in 90% of cases

[frosty garnet]

What are the biggest differences in yalls opinions?

[marble lion]

weapon masteries, monk dash and some other stuff is great though

[frosty garnet]

I assume my players will be more familiar with 2014, though

[marble lion]

but i hate what they did to casting and many other things i dont remember right now

[keen kestrel]

Tbh, I prefer 2024 at this point, most of the new stuff feels so much better and a lot of features are great (except for rangers)

[humble cairn]

Probably the biggest noticeable change was subclasses at level 3 across the board.

[frosty garnet]

That seems pretty great no?

[humble cairn]

But most of the changes were rather small and subtle.

[frosty garnet]

We love subclasses!

[marble lion]

well yeah but subclasses were gotten earlier by some classes before

[frosty garnet]

Oo i see

[marble lion]

its not that people get them earlier now rather that everyone waits til 3

[paper portal]

yeah they just made them later for some classes

[humble cairn]

Right, the old way was at random-ish points between 1-3.

[marble lion]

i dont think it was random

[humble cairn]

Arbitrary, then.

[marble lion]

i dont think it was arbitrary either

i think it was supposed to be dependant on certain relevancies to the class

[humble cairn]

The fact that it can all be changed to 3 means that the specific placement wasn't crucial, so yeah it was arbitrary just based on the whims of the devs,

[paper portal]

the difference between 2nd and 3rd kinda was but yeah i get why warlock and sorc were immediate

[marble lion]

some classes did fine without subclass until 3 but then others were really really boring without them

[frosty garnet]

Yeah warlock getting an immediate subclass makes sense

[marble lion]

i will just keep playing 2014 and take the few things i like from 24 like weapon masteries

[humble cairn]

Warlock getting it at 3 also makes just as much sense.

[frosty garnet]

Fair!

[paper portal]

honestly i find pretty much every class less interesting without a sub but moving them all to 1st level would cause a lot of balance issues

[marble lion]

it was just built differently per class

[humble cairn]

Levels 1-2 are certainly an experience, but I think it's that way on purpose and I feel that experience is valuable.

[marble lion]

some classes were built around getting their subclass at level 1 so it worked

[keen kestrel]

Most of the campaigns I’ve done recently have started at level 3 anyway, so it hasn’t impacted us much

[frosty garnet]

I would probably like to start them out at 1!

[paper portal]

optimal starting level is 3rd /silly

[marble lion]

i love level 1

[humble cairn]

Having many less features at levels 1-2 are actually great, because it lets you learn your features slowly.

[marble lion]

as long as the DM plays it lowstakes for level 1 and doesnt actually TPK the party should they all go down to unlucky rolls

[limber trail]

I played a campaign at level 1 in 2024 and all players and classes had a great time

[keen kestrel]

I’ve done enough campaigns to just… not want to start at level 1 anymore

[marble lion]

level 1 is rough if the encounters finish you off

[humble cairn]

Good thing that not everyone likes to play like an optimizer, I guess.

[paper portal]

an optimal starting level is a nonsense idea lol

[frosty garnet]

Optimal starting level is probably 1

[marble lion]

optimal starting level is 20 because thats when you are the strongest

[frosty garnet]

Valid

[marble lion]

but i prefer level 1

[limber trail]

Optimal starting level is as the DM where you’re as strong as you choose to be

[marble lion]

drunk haise signing off

[frosty garnet]

Im thinking of giving my campaign like a hard cutoff at around level 10 or so

If not lower

[limber trail]

Some folks do, depends on the adventure you want

[frosty garnet]

I am so not ready for higher levels!

[humble cairn]

Easily done, especially if you use story based advancement rather than experience points.

[frosty garnet]

I dont even know how to do first level encounters!!

Yet.

[paper portal]

most campaigns end around 10-12 yeah

[limber trail]

I’ll be very honest with you first level encounters were much harder to design than 16th level encounters in my experience

[frosty garnet]

Experience points seem daunting on the one hand, on the other, mmm players begging me to level up after every session...

[humble cairn]

Story based advancement is one of the methods in the DMG where instead of giving experience points you just give them levels whenever they've hit significant points in the story as determined by you.

[limber trail]

That said I was designing first level encounters with not a lot of experience and 16th level encounters with a lot more experience

[humble cairn]

Yeah I say forget about experience points, just set certain goals they must achieve, like beating certain bosses or getting to certain areas alive.

[frosty garnet]

Yeah, makes sense!

[limber trail]

I will say, you might not be able to design level 10+ encounters yet, but if you pace things properly you’ll learn as you go

[frosty garnet]

Thats true! Perhaps if i start out from level 1 ill eventually have the knowledge to run higher and higher levels

[limber trail]

Also, if you can, it can be great to set clear expectations for what the next level up will entail! “You’ll level up when you make your way to the city of Helone” “You’ll level up when you find and capture or kill Thelvor” etc

[limber trail]

Generally yeah you just learn, readjust, run more encounters, see what works, have fun with it

Don’t be afraid to delve into higher CR creatures as you go, try running new stuff. Sometimes you might just get ideas by staring at the monster manual, those are awesome fun

[frosty garnet]

At the end of the day its important to remember, that you can do anything, if you believe in yourself. And your heart is true, and you are kind. Then anything is possible

[humble cairn]

Just read this section about leveling without experience points, and the rate they suggest you go: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2024/running-the-game#LevelAdvancementwithoutXP

[limber trail]

I mean for DnD yeah kinda

[frosty garnet]

Yeah this doesnt apply to like poverty

Unfortunately

[humble cairn]

I played a Noble character once and found out that one of the most cathartic things I can do in a TTRPG is have money to buy stuff for friends, what a fantasy huh? 😭

[frosty garnet]

I KNOW!!

I think it would be quite fun to run a campaign where the pcs desperately claw their way out of poverty and famine

Dnd is about escapism after all

[hidden spindle]

That's why I love Origin Feat: Crafter!

[humble cairn]

Right but ... how about we escape being poor by pretending to be rich right off the bat, lol

[paper portal]

dnd is about winning and being the best /silly

[frosty garnet]

That also is fun actually

[limber trail]

I wanna play a campaign with aristocratic characters who start rich and with tons of resources

[keen kestrel]

I just wanna blow things up or smite things

[humble cairn]

I played a Noble, a son of one of the Great Houses of Waterdeep, and my DM let me use my family name as a line of credit, that was fun.

[limber trail]

I want a whole campaign with tons of players all at that power level, it sounds so great

[humble cairn]

That does sound fun.

[limber trail]

I might incorporate the idea into my next campaign and use it to really lean into the conspiracy and intrigue aspects of the game

[humble cairn]

In my Waterdeep campaign, my Bard made great use of the "start a rumor" downtime activity to shape public opinion in Waterdeep. Controlling public opinion and reshaping the game world is very fun.

[limber trail]

That sounds awesome

[knotty vine]

I kinda want Alice in wonderland based monsters now

[rough basalt]

I love downtime activities

[plush ermine]

How exactly are strength based fighters supposed to do good in dex saves?
Barbs get adv on dex saves thru level 2 danger sense
Paladins get aura of protection to kinda help at 6
Fighters get indomitable at 9, and its once per long rest with more uses at higher levels?

[rough basalt]

They don't

They just tank it.

[umbral girder]

They got the HP/resistances for it yeah

Plus it’s meant to be a weakness someone else excels on in the party as well.

[plush ermine]

Would it make sense to homebrew up an alternate shield master where u can use str for dex saves?

[umbral girder]

No not really

If they want a decent Dex save resilient is already there as a feat

[plush ermine]

Im not sure if this would be homebrew or just wishful thinking of cover rules, but can u block aoes/provide cover? If not id also like to see that as a shield master or something like that

[umbral girder]

That’s a magic item too last I checked in the 2024 rules

[rough basalt]

You can provide cover from attack rolls in some cases

If their attack roll would have to go around you

Like if someone shoots an arrow down a 5ft wide hallway, whoever is behind you has cover.

[umbral girder]

Plus half cover does give a +2 to dex saves

That is PHB rules in both versions

[plush ermine]

Maybe shields could work more like half cover, to include the normal +2 ac and +2 to dex saves for a win win?

[rough basalt]

Shields are fine as they are.

[umbral girder]

Yeah no need for that

[plush ermine]

Older version of shield master includes it, so ig its not really needed

[rough basalt]

Weaknesses are something that every class has.

[umbral girder]

It’s the point of a team work game after all

Your weakness is your friend’s strength

[rough basalt]

Wizards get absolutely rolled and smoked by strength and dex saves as well as focus fire.
Same with Sorcs.

Warlocks need short rests so if the pressure is on them, they can't do much.

[umbral girder]

DnD is a team game after all

[knotty vine]

One man’s weakness is another man’s strength

[exotic sinew]

NO. I want to be the main character and everyone must suffer the consequences

[primal wolf]

Wizards have tools to avoid and deal with a lot of these but kinda, Strength saves are usually "Go prone" which isn't a big deal, dex saves i think are one of the bigger legitimate threats on a party level but Absorb elements helps.

[midnight pagoda]

If a metallic dragon found a chromatic dragon’s eggs what would they do with them?
Probably just destroy them?

[viral kraken]

i should assume not, killing defenseless young doesn't seem very metallic right?

maybe try to raise them right

[umbral girder]

Metallics value all life after all

[burnt grove]

What do metallics eat again? Lol

[burnt valley]

Metals

[umbral girder]

Metals, gems, humanely sourced animals depending on which one

[safe raptor]

I need help balancing my next encounter for my players, so it’s the final battle or the story arc, my players have been doing a lot of random dwarf killings, (bassicly anything that is short) so I made a story arc about them having to save all of dwarfkind from extinction Beaucuase of thsis evil king thats plotting to take all of dwarfen souls for himself (souls produce power and magic) so he steals the axe of the dwarfish lords, I’m looking back in his stat block and hes wayyyyy to powerful for a level 7 party my session is in 10mminuites help

[burnt grove]

What about the micro organisms found on metals and the like

[umbral girder]

A gold dragon’s hoard is a pile of snacks to them

[burnt grove]

#dm-discussion ? Maybe

10 minutes!!!

10 minutes what!!

[viral kraken]

are those a thing in d&d?

[safe raptor]

Yeah I’m cooked

[burnt grove]

Prolly not but shrug

[safe raptor]

Nvm there here now wish me luck

[umbral girder]

Magic items

Give them potions of healing and maybe a ring or something to resist some of his damage

If it’s BPS then a Potion of Invulnerability is a good one.

[stark arch]

is there a way i can change "Summon Greater Demon" into Summon greater abbiration ?

[umbral girder]

Ask your DM

That is homebrew

[stark arch]

i couldt use wish spell summon a abbiration instead of a demon?

[viral kraken]

you can wish for whatever you want, but it'll be up to the dm what happens

[stark arch]

ok

[stuck shuttle]

That would still be up to DM since that falls outside the listed options of Wish

[stark arch]

ehh Tasha's Cauldron of Everything has summon abbiration

[stuck shuttle]

If you used Wish to cast Summon Aberration then yeah that would fall under the listed options. Wishing to cast a spell but with a modification isn’t.

[stark arch]

metamagic must have feat for wizard class on higher levels?

Elemental Adept seems also good for wizards

[stuck shuttle]

You can take metamagic adept but that won’t change the kind of creature a spell can summon

[stark arch]

yea figured that out 😛

[stuck shuttle]

Elemental adept is fun to hone in on a theme, I like it but it tends to be much less useful if you’re not frequently encountering enemies with resistance to the element that you choose

[stark arch]

Extended Spell. metmagic seems usefull for the summon spells

and increase spell duration of mage armor

[safe raptor]

Session over, thank god the wizard was a half orc

[cobalt owl]

Love messing with the deck of many things

[burnt valley]

Not rlly

[odd valley]

yeah no feat is a must have feat in this game

[stark arch]

usealy lvl 4 and 8 i boost my int to 20

[knotty pasture]

Tbf you do want Alert/Lucky somewhere in your final build

Resilient too

[odd valley]

it depends on what specifically you’re taking for resilient

it’s a class dependent feat i’d say

[knotty pasture]

Wis for martials con for spellcasters right? I was thinking of in general

Like you'd take resilient anyways, whether it'd be con or wis depends on the class

[stark arch]

You can't be surprised while you are conscious.
You gain a +5 bonus to initiative.
Other creatures don't gain advantage on attack rolls against you as a result of being unseen by you..
this all sounds so good

+5 Is hugeee

[stone panther]

just finished my session for this week! totally went well i think, a big combat for my players with some roleplay before and after, and some exposition. the players are finally starting to uncover the conspiracy at the heart of the campaign...

[knotty pasture]

Its not something you rush first but its something you wanna fit in eventually yea

Going first means a lot

[odd valley]

or lucky

with the 3 rerolls

[burnt valley]

Res:Con, War Caster and Cartomancer imo, the rest are flex slots

[lyric viper]

Just as a reminder folk, if you start digging into #character-discussion or #optimization best to take it to the appropriate channel.

[lyric viper]

My personal favourite has been mist dragons who are these very cultivator inspired dragons. They sit near waterfalls contemplating philosophy, absorbing nutrients from the mists... but now and again just eat a mouthful of mud.

[sonic lagoon]

does anyone wanna teach me how to play i want to be able to play

please

[lyric viper]

We have #learn-to-play if you want to have a read through some things yourself and #dnd-newcomers if you have any questions on how to play. A lot of it you'll pick up as you play.

[sonic lagoon]

ive already read it im just still confused with alot of things

@lyric viper ive already read it im just still confused with alot of things

[paper portal]

what stuff don't you get?

[sonic lagoon]

saving throws proficantsies magic items

[lyric viper]

We got you in #dnd-newcomers

[sonic lagoon]

ok

[versed pollen]

Has anyone ever seen a d&d community server "revive"?
like old, dust, inactive, purges & invites new blood & actually thrives?

I've never seen that happen and i've joined hundreds of servers & been mod in many of them.

I wanna say it doesn't work, you are better off starting fresh new server & just copy the template to save effort or smth.

[still plover]

It's not impossible. Probably easier as you say to build something new, taking the good parts and using that as a starting point.

[vestal mesa]

is there anywhere to practise DnD combat situations finding it difficult to get a party or to join a game

[knotty pasture]

Play bg3

[stuck shuttle]

The best you could do outside of joining a group is trying out a D&D video game based off the edition that you want to play for. Baldur’s Gate 3 is 5e-ish, so it has a significant amount of the DNA of 5th edition but with a few key changes, editions, and removals.

[vestal mesa]

yea been playin bg3 but wanted to play dnd to get a better understandin of it but all gd ill keep looking

[hoary totem]

wotc pls pls pls release mystic

[restive blade]

I’m currently reading the squire of solamnia feat but the wording is a bit weird

Can someone make sense of this?

Once per turn, when you make a weapon attack roll against a creature, you can cause the attack roll to have advantage. If the attack hits, you roll a d8 and add the number rolled as a bonus to the attack's damage roll. You can use this benefit a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, but a use is expended only if the attack hits. You regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.

Does the advantage work for multiple attacks? Or is it only for the d8 extra damage?

[paper portal]

just one attack

the d8 is also just for that attack

[limber trail]

It's a nine year old UA.... I'm not optimistic

[stark arch]

i wonder is it playing with your phone at the table a good behaviour ? 🙂 and im talking doing things that has nothing to do with dnd so not looking up info like dnd rules and stuff but compleetly offtopic

[limber trail]

It's up to your group but generally.... Not the best behaviour

I mean of course check your phone, check messages, etc

but if you're just scrolling during a session, it's not super respectful to the DM and other players

[stark arch]

or playing another game on the phone 😛

[prime pewter]

I'm watching a video on elven god lore and they are (imo) so insufferable. Genuinely they could never make me hate orcs :3

[limber trail]

So I do know DMs who get quite upset at players who play games on their phone, or a PC or console during sessions. I've known DMs who will have a problem with that

[prime pewter]

(I'm barely exaggerating I really do not like elves)

[stark arch]

my characters doest like living things in general 😛

[prime pewter]

Hail orcus, I suppose

[stark arch]

oh yea that dude prety cool god

[humble cairn]

I consider this rude. Even if it's not your turn I feel like you should be paying attention to what's happening so you don't constantly have to ask what's happening. Also you should be almost as big a fan of the other player characters and the cool NPCs the DM makes as you are of your own character.

[stark arch]

true

cant wait for next combat encounter got now 6 armed and up armoured skeletons 😄

all of them got 18 ac 😄

[hot marlin]

I often wonder where this "elf hatred" thing comes from

It's a big sentiment in fantasy circles.

[wanton raft]

Question: Other than stuff like Tasha's and other things that came with the added books, what DND spells are copyrighted

I didn't know where to ask this

[paper portal]

deep rock galactic i think

[lyric viper]

A mix of old tolkienism dwarf Vs elf, mixed with a weariness towards the 'perfect elite' elves can be portrayed as, perhaps a little fantasy fatigue, mixed with a dose of misogyny and homophobia (those effeminate elves Vs our macho dwarves).

[humble cairn]

From what I've seen there's a .. oh yeah Elgate got it, misogyny and homophobia.

[wanton raft]

Elves are also generally portrayed as wealthy posh boys as well

[wanton raft]

I just wanna know if I can get sued for saying fireball or thaumaturgy in my fantasy novel

[humble cairn]

Thaumaturgy is an actual word. Existed before D&D. So is fireball.

Basically the spells with names of iconic characters are the ones you can't use.

[wanton raft]

So which ones are. My WIP is largely inspired by D&D with some cultural flavoring but the magic system especially. It has people casting spells and learning them like wizards do

[humble cairn]

Just don't use the ones with named characters.

[wanton raft]

Oh so animate dead is fine. Bigby's hand is not.

Got it!

[humble cairn]

Yes

But also you could just like ... be a bit creative?

[paper portal]

anime dead mentioned

[wanton raft]

Oh definitely. I'll try to make distinctions but like there's only so many ways to say fireball

Firebolt and firestorm exist. I guess I can say flaming ball

[prime pewter]

It's just... I just don't like the vibes, and their culture is not the best in FR. (They seem kinda arrogant)

[humble cairn]

I'm sure we can come up with a lot.

[prime pewter]

Yes

Love that spell

[hot marlin]

What makes you think they're arrogant?

[wanton raft]

Also the schools of magic is just so nice. Having stuff like illusion and stuff just fits everything in nice boxes for a magic school

But I'd be open to bounce ideas if you're free

[hot marlin]

While I personally do enjoy arrogance immensely, finding it much more entertaining than humility, and would therefore see arrogance as something in their favor, I don't see any arrogance.

[paper portal]

wughf

[prime pewter]

Less about the elves themselves, and moreso how their main deity is... not the best

[hot marlin]

Their main deity?

[prime pewter]

(In FR)

[lyric viper]

Corellon is Def an... Interesting deity at times.

I do disagree with their reaction to a few things

[humble cairn]

Corellon seems fine?

[wanton raft]

Can I send you a message?

[hot marlin]

Considering how little we have on Corellon, I admit that I'm not seeing it yet. It's not exactly a character that has appeared a lot, there's half a dozen myths and that's basically it

[humble cairn]

I prefer not, thank you.

[lyric viper]

I dislike their reaction to elves having gender and also damning the drow. And in older editions especially encouraging hatred towards orcs

[prime pewter]

but he did that whole silly prank (sarcasm) where they literally intended to make it so the Orcs didn't have a biome to call their own

[prime pewter]

This

[wanton raft]

Oh okay. I just wanted a little bit of help but understandable

[hot marlin]

In FR lore, Corellon did not damn the drow. That was entirely the action of elven archmages.

[paper portal]

what are you guys' favourite multiclasses with warlock? :3

[wanton raft]

Paladin

[prime pewter]

Rogue Hexblade

[hot marlin]

And I can fully appreciate and understand why a shapeshifter would see having a fixed form as being a degeneracy. Especially if that fixed form comes with societal roles and expectations.

[severe rampart]

Walked into this beautiful statement, morning everybody

[prime pewter]

Gm

[paper portal]

im a shapeshifter and can confirm i agree

[hot marlin]

There's a context!

[lyric viper]

While I can understand it, I still don't like it. Just feels a bit rude to be like:
Elf: I'm an elf!
Corellon: yep.
Elf: I'm also a woman!
Corellon: oh Ew. Wrong.

[hot marlin]

But the interesting part is that, since gender is a social construct, it is perfectly normal that it would seem like a corruption to a god like Corellon, who is more or less a primordial one, in the sense that it appears that there is no progenitor for Corellon. Corellon is not a social being, they have been alone for untold eons, with not a single thing in the multiverse like them. They were part of no society.

So the very idea that there would be social constructs that would be meaningful would be not only foreign to them, it would be horrific

[severe rampart]

I love seeing things without context

[prime pewter]

I will admit, it does have some personal biases. I do prefer orcs to elves

[severe rampart]

Mmm halflings

[prime pewter]

I should play one sometime

[hot marlin]

Moreover, one could say that nobody is a woman, in the sense that womanhood is a thing you do, a performance. The ability to stop performing and relax is important. To Corellon, all identities are supposed to be fluid. Taken and discarded. Attachment to an identity is a corruption. I am inclined to agree.

[wanton raft]

Oh... That word is not allowed it seems

[severe rampart]

Yes, I think so, I like Elves, Halflings, and Changelings which have those traits

I have not and will never play an orc

[prime pewter]

This is a valid point. But what I'm trying to say has more to do with how they encouraged orc hatred. My bigger problem was with how even the 5e MM supported the idea that orcs were dumb brutes (did they NEED to give orcs negative int in their stat block? Also the way that the only way to play an orc in the core rules is not even an actual orc. Just all around, not the greatest)

[severe rampart]

Agreed, this is part of the reason I have not (and probably will never) play an orc

[lyric viper]

I feel like I disagree on that and what my gender is to me and how others may interact with it.

Again this is not to say I do not understand why it fits corellon, but that I still disagree with it as a stance.

[prime pewter]

Fairs :3 I'll be playing an 24 orc divination wizard maybe soon

[lyric viper]

But that overall I can see the fatigue and weariness of elves somes being depicted as 'better than you'd in media and dnd

A thing one can deconstruct in our games.

[wanton raft]

I might play a half orc at some point but that's it. I will NEVER play a human

[hoary totem]

Twilight cleric is that one subclass that feels like its flavour is wayyy too specific or confusing to play, but you actually make one and its flavour is actually amazing

Tasha even points this out in TCoE

[severe rampart]

I find humans delightful

[hoary totem]

"I think I could get behind a faith based around evening wear and mood lighting"

[wanton raft]

I find them boring

Effective but boring

[hoary totem]

I want to collect them feats like pokemon

[severe rampart]

Don't talk to me or my human ranger, my human warlock, my human Sorcerer, my human cleric, my human wizard, or my human fighter ever again /j

[short brook]

Humans are awesome what, they don't have all the extra stuff other races get, they're just fellas

[hoary totem]

When everyone goes out of their way to not play a human, playing the human makes you the most unique character at the table.

[wanton raft]

They're just uninteresting

[short brook]

that's what makes them cool in the face of adversity

[severe rampart]

When making a character: "hmm... What species should I make them as... I don't know... none of them really fit..."

So I just pick humans

[wispy vector]

Now make a non-variant human character

[wanton raft]

But I like that humans get feats (source: me who has to choose between feats or ASI)

[severe rampart]

I don't play 2014

[hoary totem]

laughs in 2024

[severe rampart]

I play humans as is :)

All of them are non-variant humans

[short brook]

I love other races, but humans are just as rad to me

[prime pewter]

Fair. But like, why in the fantasy game would I wanna play myself when I can be tiny scheming dragon

[hoary totem]

Playing humans lets you place more emphasis on your backstory because your species doesn't have to be involved with it

[severe rampart]

Because I'm so cool /j

[short brook]

I love the thought that humans are nifty compared to other long lived or magical races

[prime pewter]

Seriously

[severe rampart]

LMAO woah, I never

[hoary totem]

Who wants free lucky, tough, magic initiate, etc? I do!

[prime pewter]

Lessons of the first ones

[hoary totem]

Oh you have one origin feat? That's cute

[marble lion]

Because you either want to relate your humanity to a new surrounding or wanna be a different kind of human

[severe rampart]

Play a human warlock :)

[marble lion]

Playing yourself just because you play a human is one single option out of many

[hoary totem]

Gotta catch 'em all

[prime pewter]

Never. You can't make me. I'd rather play an elf

(/j)

I would rather play a human than an elf

[severe rampart]

Better make my first human fighter, John Fighter

[short brook]

John Man

[severe rampart]

All my characters are Johns (humans)

[short brook]

Middle name Hugh

[marble lion]

Also when corellon banned the orcs from a domain, the orcs were still a purely evil villain element of dnd

I feel like its pretty reasonable to straight up fight them back then

Old orcs were monsters

[prime pewter]

Okay but like... the fact that they were pure evil is a problem in of itself

[marble lion]

But not with corellon

And i dont think having pure evil creatures is bad either

[severe rampart]

Now that I think about it, that's probably how Goblins get treated like too, right?

[marble lion]

Devils and demons exist, why cant a race that lives on material plane

Modern orcs are great, dont get me wrong

But making a monster race written as evil in a supernatural setting seems fine to me

[prime pewter]

Because demons are devils are the literal personification of evil. Orcs are not

[marble lion]

Its not genetics, its a god magically making a creature

Its magic

Anyone can just be evil in a magic setting

But anyway this has nothing do with corelon

[still plover]

I'll say there are always exceptions. Anyone can be good, anyone can be evil. Situation matters.

[marble lion]

He went against a race thats written as horribly evil, where is the issue?

[short brook]

Idk why people get so uppity over an inherently evil race. It's cool for something completely alien when it comes to morals, like they just perceive the world completely different from people that live normal lives

[marble lion]

I get it if its genetics, biological determinism is a dangerous topic

[short brook]

Orcs definitely aren't that i don't think

[marble lion]

But magically evil? Thats completely fine to me, just like devils

[prime pewter]

It works with, lets say, an aboleth, because an aboleth IS alien. Most races that were born on the material plane should not be wholly good or evil

[marble lion]

Arent orcs aliens

[prime pewter]

I don't think they come from the far realm

[marble lion]

Its been a while since i looked into them

[short brook]

I think in some instances they aren't born.

[marble lion]

No not the far realm