dnd-discussion

[keen kestrel]

Yes and no

[rugged hawk]

Jergal is lowkey retired, but he still keeps his books going.

Mostly out of boredom, really.

[keen kestrel]

Jergal really likes observing mortals, that’s all he cares about

[woven flint]

I think Jergal is a bum, but I still kinda feel sympathy for him

[uncut zenith]

More like he works with Kelemvor

[fossil hollow]

he deserves his bum life style

[rugged hawk]

Jergal likes observing mortals because he's seen and done literally everything else already a million times, being one of the most ancient gods.

[inner silo]

Ah, makes sense

[obtuse stratus]

Nah he can get a bum lift if he wants, right the first time

[keen kestrel]

Jergal is incredibly old, I’d feel bad too if I had to watch everything I knew wither away to nothing

[feral fulcrum]

Jergal wanted to retire and hold illegal rat races in peoples basements.

[woven flint]

Jergal was genuinely stressed at judging mortals because he, himself was never a mortal

I think that's fairly reasonable to want to pass on your job

[fossil hollow]

shhhh

[limber trail]

He's actually LN, not TN

[rugged hawk]

Jergal was never a judge of mortals. All he had to do was write down the names and death of each mortal.

[woven flint]

I thought he held that place of Judge of the dead for a while

[obtuse stratus]

Don't think Myrkul judges either. Just rules over the dead

[inner silo]

Can you imagine having to do that with the names some people in faerun have?

[woven flint]

Jergal wins every spelling bee

[fossil hollow]

names are probably the least freaky thing that god has seen

[river vector]

I have plans for the mayor of the town to call the party for a meeting, only for him to reveal that he made a deal with the BBEG, in exchange for handing over the town and the party to the BBEG, the mayor gets to live. Then a vampire spawn servant of BBEG will walk in, and kill the mayor, and proceed to fight the party. In a few days time, the army of the BBEG will attack.

[woven flint]

You know who the biggest bum of the dead three is?

Bhaal.

[inner silo]

Just saying that job can be very stressful

[obtuse stratus]

Withers standing there while you pick parts of your bg3 character

[rugged hawk]

If he did, he wasn't interested in it. All Jergal cares about, domain-wise, is that every name and death is recorded. Other than that, his hobby is mortal-watching.

[stray atlas]

so bit of a random quesiton, is there a god in dnd akin to malacath from tes?

[woven flint]

Gruumsh

[fossil hollow]

who the hell is malacath

[woven flint]

Malacath is the Daedric prince of Orcs

[fossil hollow]

Orcs? Literally gruumsh

[woven flint]

Well, he created Orcs

[obtuse stratus]

Which I keep as Orcus, god of the underground and punishing oathbreakers

[fossil hollow]

Oh, mixed in with the romain deity of the same name

[woven flint]

Orcus is ... a Demon Lord

[inner silo]

Btw wasn't gruumsh actually tricked by the elf god which made the orcs existence very miserable?

[uncut zenith]

Yeah Orcus isn’t technically a god

[fossil hollow]

debated, but thats one retelling of the story

[obtuse stratus]

hellblade was right. It's an ancient deity, D&D made something different

[woven flint]

I don't think that's actually true, at least on the outside perspective, Gruumsh just BELIEVES he was betrayed

[stray atlas]

malacath is all about honor, vengence, and is the deity of outcasts and orcs

[inner silo]

So orcs say the elf god tricked Gruumsh and elves say the other way around?

[stray atlas]

if that helps

[scarlet prairie]

If I was in dnd I’d commit mass purging of anything not friendly

[woven flint]

That's.. a take

[obtuse stratus]

Like you. Cus that's super unfriendly

[woven flint]

You don't have to be friendly to be a good person

[inner silo]

What would you describe as not friendly

[river vector]

New BBEG

[scarlet prairie]

Orcs

Chromatic dragons

Some Gods

[feral fulcrum]

Casual Genocide does not, generally, make a good person. 😛

[obtuse stratus]

Sound like you espouse genocide

[scarlet prairie]

Double gangers

[stray atlas]

anyone that fits that?

[feral fulcrum]

Dopplegangers you mean?

[inner silo]

Bhaal trying to become a good deity ig

[uncut zenith]

Orcs can be friendly. They’re not an inherently bad/evil group of people

[rugged hawk]

As a warlock whose patron is an undead black dragon, -10 approval. I will remember this.

[inner silo]

Especially in 2024

[woven flint]

It's almost like..
Not all members of a species are always Evil..

[stray atlas]

orcs are not universally evil, iirc there's at least 2 types of chromatic dragons that aren't evil by default, and please vaporize shar

[scarlet prairie]

Yea but that’s weird is dnd is the only setting where a particular race tends to all act a certain way . In humans this isn’t true , you have your good humans and bad humans and some that are good sometimes and bad sometimes. But for the other races in dnd this isn’t true , with some exceptions of course. Like chromatic dragons

[obtuse stratus]

I don't even make chromatic dragons inherently evil, just tending that way

[fossil hollow]

hasnt been the hard, always applicable truth in dnd's history

stares at dragonlance, eberron, planescape

[rugged hawk]

I can't hear you very well over that time a Half-orc kidnapped my sorc and tried to have her be his cave maid, do the cleaning and cooking. Killed him in his sleep with his own frying pan.

[feral fulcrum]

With the exception of things like Demons. But when you basically pop into a plane personifiying chaos, madness, full of infinite Psychopaths...that's kind of a gaurentee.

[obtuse stratus]

Actually, considering Elminster had a Drow apprentice for a long time you actually can't even claim that individuals of races are all X

[scarlet prairie]

Some races in dnd are almost always evil , basically a kill on sight kinda thing

[woven flint]

All Fiends are inherently evil, but that doesn't mean they can't be okay people 🧐

[fossil hollow]

why am i hearing Jarlaxle and Drizzt erasure

[inner silo]

Also Drizzt

[obtuse stratus]

Since the beginning of D&D there has been gray in almost everything, even some fiends

[rugged hawk]

Jarlaxle did Entreri dirty

[feral fulcrum]

I don't think Demons can be long term Okay People, due to their natures.

[uncut zenith]

And WOTC has since stepped away from that nonsense. Especially in recent years.

[fossil hollow]

"step one to fixing edgy boyfriend: forced therapy"

[obtuse stratus]

Good Liches have been around for most of the game's history

[inner silo]

Isn't entreri evil?

[woven flint]

Of course Demons can't
But Devils and Yugoloths can be okay!

[fossil hollow]

where are my archliches 😭

[rugged hawk]

He was, til he faced Drow culture and realized he was like, Basic Evil.

[stray atlas]

iirc blue and purple dragons are chaotic neutral

[scarlet prairie]

So yea I’d just be a hero of justice purging evil

[feral fulcrum]

The only time a Demon should be good if it's undergoing a temporary fit of insanity.

[fossil hollow]

Blue is the opposite on average; Lawful Evil

[stray atlas]

huh.

[inner silo]

So he essentially realised his evil isn't even that evil in comparison and just gave up on trying?

[fossil hollow]

Purples (not to be confused with Deeps) are CE.

[obtuse stratus]

Just because a stat block claims a creature is X alignment that doesn't mean ALL those creatures are that alignment

[stray atlas]

I've gotta find that book again

[fossil hollow]

hence my usage of average

[stray atlas]

sorry

[scarlet prairie]

Almost all of them are with some rare exceptions , 9.5 out of 10 times basically

[stray atlas]

I generally try to stay in that same range personally

[rugged hawk]

Dunno, I didn't read all that stuff. I just remember that Jarlaxle, while technically saving his life, also kept him alive to live with the betrayal of Entreri's lover.

[woven flint]

I think Demons are literally the only completely Irrevocable group of beings

[scarlet prairie]

Red dragons for example

[fossil hollow]

stares at the several communities of non evil drow

[obtuse stratus]

So what this guy supports is genocide in the game, and the "yeah but" of them being particular alignments is moot

[inner silo]

I see

[scarlet prairie]

Idk about drow yet , I only know about the ones I’ve studied

[fossil hollow]

probably not a good idea to generalize then eh?

[woven flint]

None of my three Drow were evil
They were living their best lives and being happy not to be in the underdark anymore lol

[rugged hawk]

Pretty sure Entreri at that point would've prefered to be dead rather than live with what his life had become. I vaguely recall he was SUPER peeved at Jarlaxle about protecting him in that moment and went his own separate way.

[stray atlas]

e.g. there was one red dragon that loved carnage and destruction and then another who purposefully went overboard when defending itself if disturbed in a game I played

both are evil just one was exponentially more so

[woven flint]

Vaskhir (Wildfire Druid), Dulance (Trickery Cleric) and Sovis (Celestial Warlock)
They're my drow boys

[rough basalt]

Something I always forget is that Drow men are short kings

[scarlet prairie]

I won’t make generalizations about races I don’t know about because I don’t know about them . But for races I do know about , like red dragons, yea I’d hunt them down to extinction

[inner silo]

I see. I know about them from the dnd game legends of the dark elf so my knowledge isn't very deep. When i used to play it i somehow didn't even know what dnd was

[rough basalt]

Like I think Drizzt is 5'3 or something

[obtuse stratus]

aye

[woven flint]

I think you're being a little too extreme about it, personally lol

[rough basalt]

5'4

[fossil hollow]

thats not even true either. There's also one in FR thats. Generally chill. Even generous. Shoutout to my man Klauth

[inner silo]

Good luck on hunting down red dragons ig

[stray atlas]

also bit of a random question, does dnd have a group of enemies who's whole gimmick is adapting to damage types on the fly?

[woven flint]

Evil things will always exist

[fossil hollow]

Cant forget my goat Themberchaud either

[woven flint]

But Themberchaud IS evil 😭

[stray atlas]

I need something like that for a dungeon

[feral fulcrum]

How much of that is natural and how much of it is the Toxic, frequently murderous nature of Drow Matriarchal culture?

[fossil hollow]

also a guy called Lux who had a crisis of conscience in the 12th centiury

[obtuse stratus]

Okay but you aren't Saint Juib, you're just genocidal against red dragons and probably one of those dudes in Dragonheart that want to off Sean Connery

[rugged hawk]

Far as a I barely recall, Entreri did a murder on someone, then ended up getting with a girl who knew the person he killed? Then way later, she tried to kill him while they were in bed, but Jarlaxle had secretly been prepared for exactly that and stopped her.

[woven flint]

Being a Genocidal maniac against Evil things doesn't really make YOU the better person

[scarlet prairie]

It’s cause I’m human , I’ve noticed in dnd humans are generally the most easily and accessible prey.

[inner silo]

So entreri and jarlaxle are like best buddies?

[obtuse stratus]

Why does that read like a romance novel synopsis

[rough basalt]

From what I can remember lorewise typically men are between 4'7 and 5'5 while women are typically up to 5'7 or so.

[fossil hollow]

not any more

[inner silo]

Sad

[rugged hawk]

They were, for a while.

[inner silo]

So they're quite short for elves?

[rough basalt]

Yep, sometimes.

[fossil hollow]

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Jarlaxle#Artemis_Entreri

[inner silo]

Interesting bit of lore

[woven flint]

Not every evil thing specifically CARES about or goes out of their way to kill humans, though.

[obtuse stratus]

I like everything about that. Also would help in caves

[rough basalt]

Drizzt is his human wife's short king

[feral fulcrum]

I wonder what the Tallest kind of Elves are

[scarlet prairie]

Not just dragons , I was making a list of things I’d hunt down to extinction in dnd , red dragons was just one of them . I have like 6 other things on the chopping block

[rough basalt]

A whopping 2 inches taller than him.

[fossil hollow]

probably space elves, since theyre in space

[woven flint]

The Logic is flawed
"I as a human am going to show the worst part of human nature because I'm afraid of something that probably doesn't even know I exist."

[feral fulcrum]

I don't think you'll ever find a table to enact your...rather concerning Genocide fantasies in.

[obtuse stratus]

Yeah, we get it, you want to commit genocide against numerous things. At best that makes you Lawful Evil

[fossil hollow]

anyway, might wanna move on

i can hear the orange names ticking

[scarlet prairie]

The things I listed are generally things that target humans and have as a race body counts in the millions. Basically if a human heard I was hunting them down , they’d prob be like “good riddance”

[obtuse stratus]

Yeah alright then

[flint ledge]

I think generally doing genocide against any species is not particularly good even if evil given most creatures have their place in the natural order of things

[rugged hawk]

Let them cook, it'll be amusing to see their wrath upon him

[rough basalt]

Uh yeah good luck

[fossil hollow]

AAAANYWAY, favorite titan

[feral fulcrum]

I'm not familliar with Titans

[woven flint]

Your mother, Timothy. >:] /joking

[obtuse stratus]

So, @rugged hawk what was that about a romance novel with some dudes

[fossil hollow]

tarrasque, empyreans, krakens, astral dreadnoughts, monsters with the titan tag

[rough basalt]

Illithids but even then, Rogue colonies that mind their own business or help out are fine.

[obtuse stratus]

Oh, opinions on Giants as a splat book topic?

[rugged hawk]

Reminding me of the time Summon Cow spell spawned an angry Mother-In-Law

[rough basalt]

It's mainly Elder Brains.

[fossil hollow]

i love bigby's (except for the AI assisted art)

[feral fulcrum]

Ah, I was thinking they were the uh...Crap who were the Giant Guys who fought against the Gods and got wiped out?

[obtuse stratus]

I need to get me some elder brans.

[fossil hollow]

Greek Titans

[final turtle]

Certain gods aswell such as tiamat

[flint ledge]

Those are Greek titans

[fossil hollow]

Theyre not titans. Theyre gods

[flint ledge]

Tiamat isn't a titan I don't think...?

[fossil hollow]

Tiamat's statblock also only has the Chromatic tag, at least as per Fizban

[final turtle]

But some of them are classified titans for some reason

[obtuse stratus]

You got your god in my peanutbutter, you got your titan in my chocolate!

[feral fulcrum]

No, they were a group of exceptionally large, old beings thatI vaguelly recall having worked under the gods, then rebelled and got wiped out.

[fossil hollow]

thats not true in 5e at least. Ive reasearched all the existing titans in 5e for one of my campaigns

[woven flint]

My favorite Titan is Sisyphus 🧐
He reminds me that even if life is hell, at least I'm not pushing rocks for eternity

[fossil hollow]

-# Sisyphus was a mortal

[woven flint]

Shhhh, nobody asked you /silly

[final turtle]

Oh ok good to know thanks

[obtuse stratus]

Why do I feel like now someone is gunna say he did nothing wrong

[feral fulcrum]

They were kinda like the Empryeans but not, and were older edition material.

[inner silo]

Ngl he seems like a relatively chill guy for a drow

[fossil hollow]

oooh i think i remember a dungeon dad vid about this, but it escapes my mind

[flint ledge]

Speaking of stuff who fought the gods didn't the gods fight primordials at the beginning?

[obtuse stratus]

So about the spell plague

[fossil hollow]

Is that in general 5e? I thought that was Critical Role. Is that Dawn War stuff? Gods vs Primordials?

[feral fulcrum]

It might have been the Dawn Titans/Primordials

[tropic walrus]

What are the odds in one session of dm and a party rolling nat 1 in 8 times in a row

[halcyon bison]

what makes a creature a "titan" anyways?

[obtuse stratus]

Low

[fossil hollow]

creatures with the titan tag are usually direct creations of gods, or very old and powerful monsters.

[inner silo]

As high as them rolling any other number 8 times throughout a session

[tropic walrus]

@obtuse stratus I am in the session now

[obtuse stratus]

1 in 25.6 billion

[halcyon bison]

1 in 2.56e10 (assuming they were all straight rolls, not advantage or disadvantage), but so are the odds of you rolling any other combination of numbers in a row

[inner silo]

How'd you calculate

[obtuse stratus]

20^8

[fossil hollow]

ok, found it from 2014 DMG

Quasi-deities have a divine origin, but they don't hear or answer prayers, grant spells to clerics, or control aspects of mortal life. They are still immensely powerful beings, and in theory they could ascend to godhood if they amassed enough worshipers. Quasi-deities fall into three subcategories: demigods, titans, and vestiges.

[...]

Titans are the divine creations of deities. They might be birthed from the union of two deities, manufactured on a divine forge, born from the blood spilled by a god, or otherwise brought about through divine will or substance.

[inner silo]

Ah, right

[flint ledge]

Could be wrong though I guess the guys called the elemental princes of evil don't seem particularly chill

[rugged hawk]

They're not, no.

[obtuse stratus]

Well the one for cold element is

[fossil hollow]

Theyre not the Primordials

Theyre the Elemental Princes of Evil

[crimson gulch]

The dawn war is the dnd lore that mat mercer grabbed and ran with

[inner silo]

Are there seas and big bodies of water in the underdark?

[rough basalt]

Almost ready to try paid game running.

[rough basalt]

There's subterranean lakes and stuff yeah

[obtuse stratus]

Wait... wouldnt the earth, air, AND water elements ALL be pretty chill?

[inner silo]

Are they just as deadly as everything else in the underdark?

[rough basalt]

Yeah

[tropic walrus]

Also can we roll back to the fog of war hiding the enemy in the character list till they are cleared

[halcyon bison]

interesting

[rugged hawk]

Primordials are beings like Kossuth, the Primordial Elemental of Fire. Who is decidedly unchill, being an evil wretch.

[inner silo]

Dang

[fossil hollow]

all of them really. Earth has a natural temperature of 0 degreess celsius underground

[flint ledge]

"The outer regions are the domains of creatures formed of the pure elements, including air, earth, fire, and water elementals. These are also the domains of the Elemental Princes of Evil—primordial beings of pure elemental fury."

[obtuse stratus]

Well, not fire. That wouldn't be chill

[fossil hollow]

Ever had fire hot enough to be cold?

[fossil hollow]

Theyre not The Primordials during the Dawn War

[inner silo]

How deadly would going for a swim in an underdark lake be?

[halcyon bison]

A tarrasque ascending to godhood by unintentionally gaining worshippers sounds interesting

[flint ledge]

Ahhh

[rough basalt]

There was a Tarrasque that was worshipped

People would sacrifice people to it.

[inner silo]

He'd compete with bhaal for who kills more ppl?

[obtuse stratus]

Look here Mr Physics I don't care about inversed infinities making hot cold cold hot, this is Dungeons and Derpons, not Mr Numbers

[rough basalt]

Iirc it was on Maztica but I'm not 100%

[flint ledge]

How do you differentiate between primordials anyway

[fossil hollow]

i could have sworn it was near Kara Tur, the Kaiju islands

[rough basalt]

Mightve been.
Need to google

[fossil hollow]

in this scenario. theyre specific beings who partook in the Dawn War

although some didnt fight

[rough basalt]

It was a Tabaxi Empire.
They called it the Sleeper

Can't find where tho

[halcyon bison]

Probably not, but I could see people making sacrifices and whatnot to keep it from eating them

[fossil hollow]

wait, dnd has progenitor frog people too? goddammit

whats next, orcs have a collective psyche?

[inner silo]

Definitely

[feral fulcrum]

You sure you're not mixing him up with Imix?

[fossil hollow]

#1026901431132885064

[feral fulcrum]

Imix was way more actively Evil then Kossuth.

[prime pewter]

Oops sorry

[rugged hawk]

Well, with the advent of the internet, humans are now a collective hive mind masquerading as individuals.

[fossil hollow]

Bruh, Cryonax and Bwimb are Primordials, but the main Elemental Princes arent? Lmao

[rugged hawk]

I was, yes.

[fossil hollow]

Maegera and Atropus are also on here??? lmaoooo

oh hey, Miska

[obtuse stratus]

Gestalt field

[severe rampart]

Gonna be playing a monk for the first time, in a level 20 oneshot... wish me luck

[lavish flame]

In some fairness, Primordials got invented after the Elemental Princes iirc

[fossil hollow]

love me monks

[main lagoon]

#looking-for-dm

[fossil hollow]

how come those two get special treatment 😭

[rugged hawk]

Ye. I had a fire genasi sorceress, True Neutral, who really disliked Imix. Wanted to get rid of him, then replace Kossuth as the most powerful Fire Elemental. Sort of got her wish by igniting a wholeass NEW SUN in the sky after Dendar ate the old one.

[obtuse stratus]

Make it an Orc and paint it red, it'll go faster

[lavish flame]

as to why they wouldn't just get grandfathered in, idk, but I figure they just didn't

[woven flint]

Na bruva, datz Orks!

Orcs and Orks r two very different fings.

[fossil hollow]

you git

[rugged hawk]

Not really. Dead is dead.

[woven flint]

Pass me da Dakka, bruva!

[fossil hollow]

nah, my dakka. Need it to kill some mechanical git and a dog later

[woven flint]

Wait a minute

I'm that Mechanical Git!

[rugged hawk]

Rest in pieces ⚙️

[obtuse stratus]

Um so... rules for casting bones? (sorry, don't like where that left off)

[feral fulcrum]

There is no Bones spell in 5e, but same as every other spell.

[obtuse stratus]

I mean rolling bones, or divination by throwing bones often into a dish

[grim mist]

So the new season of adventure league. The horrors within where are the mods to run for that season. I am the head DM and gaming organizer for DND at a local store in my area. I am supposed to start adventure league in April so what do I need and where do I get it do I use the new strahd book when it comes out or what. Please advise

[undone rain]

I should make a hedge knight character, for those who dont know what that is their knights who dont serve lords and are often poor. Often sleeping under hedges rather then a castle or an inn. Their like mercenaries

[feral fulcrum]

best asked in the aprorpirate AL rooms such as #al-dm-discussion and such

[stuck shuttle]

The closest thing would the the spell Augury, which can involve bones or other “divinatory tokens”

[obtuse stratus]

I should pull out the Bretonnian Army Book and make versions of each of the knights in OSE Advanced for my D&D games, possibly with some Skerples Monster Overhaul bits in there

[undone rain]

You should it sounds cool

[limber trail]

You can but I would go with the more common, non setting dependant name of Knight Errant.

Hedge Knight as a term wasn’t commonly used in any historical or fantasy contexts except for that one you’re thinking of, a hedge knight is a creation of Westeros Lore. In more common & romantic fantasy, Knight Errant is the broad term

[obtuse stratus]

Plus Questing Knights, Knights of the Grail... and I'm missing one I think, grr it's only been like a decade since Bretonnia was in WHF

[undone rain]

Hm i was not aware of that, thank you

[limber trail]

Yeah hedge knights as a concept are mainly a product of GRRM’s writing

Similarly to how the spelling “Ser” comes mainly from Asoiaf and isn’t a common spelling historically

[undone rain]

Gotcha

Man even my medieval knowledge is getting rusty lol

[limber trail]

Hey I get it I’m there with you

Just gotta do a little fact checking every now and then

[undone rain]

True, gotta make sure ya get everything right

Technically ive already made a knight errant now that i think of it

My harengon fighter with the knight of the order background but his "order" quote on quote is destroyed

[obtuse stratus]

Oh there we go. Knight Errant, Knight of the Realm, Questing Knight, Grail Knights and, of course, Pegasus Knights

[undone rain]

Pegasus knights?

[obtuse stratus]

Yeah, they ride Pegasi

[undone rain]

That is...badass

[limber trail]

I’m gonna again shout at least a couple of those as being setting dependant, Grail Knights and Pegasus Knights seem to be mainly from warhammer?

[obtuse stratus]

Yeah. But luckily the Knight class can train fantastical flying mounts at like 4th level soooo

[feral fulcrum]

Paladin's have been doin it for ages now.

[limber trail]

Which no issues with but yeah important to consider using general terms as more setting-specific terms can sometimes break immersion

[obtuse stratus]

Paladins were heroes and the lords... well that was a Lord (with both heroes and lords having a magic casting "Lady")

[limber trail]

I’ve certainly played games where people import lore from other settings to the detriment of the game

[undone rain]

Seriously? I gotta hop on the pegasus train

[spring glen]

Twas the night before DND, when all through the Dungeon
Not a Player was stirring, not even a Mimic;
The Monsters were placed in foundry with care,
In hopes that our DM soon would be there.

[obtuse stratus]

Regardless, Errant, Realm, and Questing work, and Pegasus Knights are just what they're called and super generic

[limber trail]

For sure. I just always advocate for a settingless term where possible

My rule of thumb is when I google it, if the first three results aren’t a link to a fandom wiki or site, we’re good to go

[spring glen]

for what?

[still plover]

For picking titles and the like for things in your setting.

Like I wouldn't use Arbites for cops and Inquisitors for detectives unless I was doing a 40k game.

[spring glen]

I cant wait to run some level 5 stuff tomorrow

[obtuse stratus]

It's pretty legit. You can do other things like create ranks and whatnot like 0e and maybe 1e (can't recall I think they had named levels).

[spring glen]

is there diffrent version of animal friendship for like Monstrosity's?

[obtuse stratus]

Could probably have a version of the blessing of the lady and the concept of the lady, just like have a mecca like tomb to someone and when you go there and prove yourself you're blessed. Wouldn't call it "the lady" as it would very much evoke WHFB or Authurian Legend, but yeah

[spring glen]

I hope we get more strixhaven stuff with the season of magic

[fossil hollow]

most likely not, seeing the release announcements

[spring glen]

a revision to good ole silvery barbs

[limber trail]

It may end up in Arcana Unleashed

[lavish flame]

People say "printing Dark Sun is a lose/lose situation for WOTC" but THIS? THIS is a lose/lose situation for WOTC

[rough basalt]

Dark Sun has one win condition

[lavish flame]

If they make the spell worse, people will complain, if they keep it the same, they'll complain

[spring glen]

id change it so they get disadvantage or advantage on their next roll

[limber trail]

I honestly think they could print a new silvery barbs and make it fine. People just need to accept it’s not gonna be broken

[rough basalt]

They market you as being champions against the evil Sorcerer-Kings

[spring glen]

thats all

[lavish flame]

If they make it better, i think nationwide riots break out

[rough basalt]

I think in the '24 DMG it even says something relatively like that.

[spring glen]

oh what page?

[lavish flame]

I figure thats the vibe

[spring glen]

I got my dmg beside me

[rough basalt]

Lemme grab mine I can't remember

[spring glen]

cool

[rough basalt]

Page 136

[limber trail]

Silvery Barbs ‘24 could do a few things. For one, just make it so you take a reaction and impose disadvantage before the roll. Alternatively, a fun one is giving them advantage on the next roll they make after you cast the spell.

[lavish flame]

Dark Sun's descriptor in the 5.5e DMG is

Heroes make their mark on a postapocalyptic world defiled by magic and forsaken by the gods.

[rough basalt]

And heroes in a world like Dark Sun would be fighting the Sorcerer-Kings so makes sense.

[meager fractal]

I hope we never see silvery barbs again.

[feral fulcrum]

Now the thing is, are morally Obliged to reference Fist of the North Star if your'e playing a Monk in Dark Sun?

[rough basalt]

Yes

[obtuse stratus]

Heroes do what now? What heroes?

[spring glen]

that was very imformative thanks

[rough basalt]

The heroes are the 5e PCs that'll roll up on Bores in December 2026 with Champions of Athas: Dark Sun Players Guide.
Source: The gift of prophecy

[lavish flame]

The PCs

[obtuse stratus]

"Dudes try to survive an absolute nightmare in the blasted and defiled post apocalyptic lands of a late universe world with a dying sun."

[rough basalt]

Tbh that's what they should call the Dark Sun players guide.

[obtuse stratus]

"Evil has won long ago amd there is no hope left for anyone, good luck players"

[rough basalt]

"Who decided that?"

[obtuse stratus]

"The game where you get a while stable of characters because, lol, you need it"

[meager fractal]

I play D&D because I want to escape that kinda thing

[lavish flame]

Do we think Dark Sun gets 1 or 2 books?

[spring glen]

2

[rough basalt]

I'm thinking they're gonna stick to the FR book model for setting guides

[obtuse stratus]

Don't play Dark Sun then

[meager fractal]

we're lucky if it gets a tiny pdf like Ebberron just got

[lavish flame]

Player Guide and DM Guide?

[rough basalt]

Yeah Champions of Athas and Adventures of Athas

Or Athas Advebtures

[spring glen]

I think it might be a box set like planescape

[lavish flame]

Oh interesting

[obtuse stratus]

Dark Sun needs like 4 chapters just to explain psionics right, it needs to be completely convoluted

[lavish flame]

I hadn't even considered a box set like Planescape and Spelljammer

[rough basalt]

Box set could be possible since Dark Sun originated in one

[spring glen]

yeah they get overlooked because of how little they were made

[obtuse stratus]

I mean basic was a box set and it was all of 64 pages I think

[rough basalt]

Well it's about capitalizing off of old dnd

And Dark Sun 2e was a box set so for max nostalgia purchases you make the new one a box set

Let's just hope it's a Planescape Box set, not a Spelljammer Box set

[obtuse stratus]

Makes me worry about Project Athas or whatever

Although considering how dead the discord server is 🙁

[rough basalt]

Dark Sun just has it kinda rough

[meager fractal]

yeah

[rough basalt]

It wasn't done well originally, then it wasn't done particularly well again with knowing what they did wrong before.

[obtuse stratus]

It went heavy on grimbright and slavery so, yeah, pretty cancelable now

[rough basalt]

And it's not something DnD can comfy market.

They're gonna have to either not market it or go all out

[obtuse stratus]

The whole setting fails comfy. It's specifically trecherous and uncomfy. I don't know how they're going to do it, probably heroic fantasy which is shouldnt be

[rough basalt]

"Do you like killing evil people and monsters? Then look no further!"

[meager fractal]

I mean if 4e can do it well enough (and it did) I don't see why 5e would struggle

[obtuse stratus]

Do you like drinking water and staying inside? ⛔️

[rough basalt]

The new design team also believes that "4e fixes this" so i got hopes

If they don't sanitize the setting, and don't try to downplay what's wrong with it I could see it doing alright

[obtuse stratus]

You know the image in FO1 when you die in the desert? Do you want that to happen to your first 20 characters? Look no further than Dark Sun

They could slap a mature content label on it just for marketing

[rough basalt]

Well people can't read so

[obtuse stratus]

Well, obviously not to keep it away from kidsz parents get that stuff and complain all the time

But they put it on there so it seems grittier for 5.5e

[rough basalt]

They could make the 1st page in big letters
"This setting contains Slavery, Resource Desperation, Genocide, and overall crappiness" and people will be surprised when Bores the Dragon of Tyr or whatever his title is likes torturing people.

[obtuse stratus]

If it doesn't mention Cannibalistic Halflings then people will shut it and walk away so it needs that too

[rough basalt]

With the FR books the new design team have shown they aren't afraid to put such content in books.

So I feel like they'll probably do it good

[crimson gulch]

Cannibalism is in a bunch of 5e books

[rough basalt]

I think ToA has Humanoid cannibal enemy statblocks even.

99% sure cause I'm pretty sure I used them in ToA

[uncut zenith]

It comes up a couple of times in RotF too

[rough basalt]

Which makes sense. Given what Auril is doing to those people in an already hard land.

I need to get Rime for my next cart.

It's a great adventure

[meager fractal]

It is

[obtuse stratus]

I'm just saying to shout it out in the disclaimers because people LOVE that about Dark Sun. Like Halfling Velociraptor riders, it's iconic

[jolly agate]

Dhampirs can like, do they burn whit the sun or smth?

[rough basalt]

Nah

[meager fractal]

There's a youtube video series about reskinning rime to fit in Dark Sun, actually

[rough basalt]

You could certainly say your Dhampir maybe gets sunburnt very easily as flavor.

[obtuse stratus]

They don't tan, they burn, but not like in a fire just sunburn

[uncut zenith]

Nope. Dhampirs aren’t full vampires, so they don’t come with the same weaknesses that vampires do.

[jolly agate]

Burn like they bloody turn to ashes or burn like, their skin gets all red and stuff?

Like it hurts

[rough basalt]

Burn like "ahh that hurts" and now you're gonna have skin peeling at some point that you're gonna hate and wish you wore sunscreen

[obtuse stratus]

Red and stuff, because they have bad circulation

[jolly agate]

Ouch, that's somehow worse

[obtuse stratus]

And reduced pigmentation, they pastey

Except Blade

[rough basalt]

Fireball is too easy an out for enemies.
I'd rather cast Sunburn on back and sides! So they can't sleep on their backs or sides

[jolly agate]

Gotta thinkin in other race for ma collage of glamour bard

[obtuse stratus]

Swam for 4 hours in the ocean. I pealed for 2 months

[rough basalt]

Gonna add Sunburn as a curse in my Wednesday game.

[obtuse stratus]

Will save for your friends to not slap your back

[rough basalt]

For 1d100 days you take 1d4 damage on Long Rests

[obtuse stratus]

Cold baths only

[rough basalt]

Better have a "Remove Curse" aka skin cream handy

[obtuse stratus]

Your nickname becomes lobster or tomato, your choice

[rough basalt]

I got some evil curses cooked up

Like one makes water you try to drink from turn to sand.

[obtuse stratus]

I worry about the gimpie gimpie curse, tbh

[meager fractal]

would 2d4 damage on a long rest be too much

[rough basalt]

Or the Tax Debt curse

[obtuse stratus]

Depends on if your friends fail their wisdom saves or not

[obtuse stratus]

curse of stubbed toe. Must check if it's bleeding every d4 rounds

[rugged hawk]

Curse of Caltrops, save every round or each step feels like angry legos

[obtuse stratus]

Curse of misinterpreted statements, feel awkward as your friends say "WTF" at everything you say

[remote wadi]

That's just Spike Growth

[jolly agate]

What do Collage of Glamour bards even do?

Like, do they pose and like 2d6 dmg or smth?

I'm not quite sure what they do, never played one

[obtuse stratus]

They're jusy fancy lads doing fancy glamours like a bunch of fancy glam rockers

[jolly agate]

That sounds quite fancy mate

but how the hell u attack whit that

[fossil hollow]

Glamour Bard's thing is CC and charm

[jolly agate]

Like weapon attack and Mockery (spell) or smth?

[fossil hollow]

Charming enemies, and spamming the Command spell. Bard overall is not very damagey. Its a support and control and utility class

[jolly agate]

I thought CC stood for close combat ngl, mb

[feral fulcrum]

Crowd Control is CC

[hot marlin]

Close combat is more often the acronym CQC. Close Quarter Combat

Actual military slang, but one that should be adopted

[jolly agate]

And what abt Collage of spirits?

That one sounds cooler

[feral fulcrum]

All Bards are basically Skill Monkies and Crowd Controllers/Support.

[jolly agate]

Sword bard?

[feral fulcrum]

As caster's with Bardic Spell lists, and how their inherent features, they're just not built for good combat.

Even Valor Bards are not very good at it.

[karmic heath]

DND 5.5e…smites…last a minute with concentration?
So if I land a hit I can bonus action smite? Then I keep that extra damage/effect for a full minute…so 10 rounds?
IF maintained concentration

[jolly agate]

I mean, what they even do?, like. necromancer bard?

[feral fulcrum]

Nope. 2014 is Minute long Duration with Concentration, in 5.5 most of them lost Concentration. But you're missing the part where it says the effect ends on a Hit.

[jolly agate]

caster?, or like, they wake up the dead to know their storys and stuff

[feral fulcrum]

They're Single Hit buffs, not Duration Buffs like Enlarge or the like.

They only have a duration because it may take you a minute to land a hit.

[karmic heath]

Gotcha thank you.
So one and done, correct?

[feral fulcrum]

Correct.

[karmic heath]

Thank you!

[meager fractal]

Question for you

would you play in a Dark Sun campaign if WotC released one?

[obtuse stratus]

Yeah if it was in Becmi, 0e, 1e, 2e, or OSR

[feral fulcrum]

As someone who's never seen Dark Sun personally, I'd like to look at whatever they cook up before forming an opinion.

[lavish flame]

Like a WOTC Dark Sun adventure? If its "Kill a Sorcerer King" then yeah prolly

[rough basalt]

I'd think about it

I'd probably run it instead of playing it

[remote wadi]

All right. I think I gotta do something aside from search for BG3 games for a while

[cursive ledge]

how far can you go with the thaumaturgy eye changing?

like could you display a video on your eye

or like make them reflective

[feral fulcrum]

It's a Cantrip, so I'd say no on the vdeo.

[remote wadi]

#character-discussion would be that way

[real wagon]

it got removed for spam

I posted it once

I swear

[idle oar]

Well don't post it across channels - pick the best channel (read #channel-guide) and post it there.

[shrewd thistle]

guys why does dnd beyond only allow fiend for otherowrld patron for 5e

[remote wadi]

You need to buy the books for it yourself

[hidden spindle]

You probably got the free rules

[idle oar]

To access/use paid material you have to own the book or be in a D&Beyond campaign with content sharing enabled

?books

[cosmic roost]

Accessing Content on D&D Beyond

There are four ways to access content on D&D Beyond that you may have in your physical books:

1. Purchase the full digital book from the marketplace
2. Purchase a digital/physical bundle from the marketplace
3. Join a D&D Beyond campaign with someone who already owns the book where content sharing has been enabled
4. Use the homebrew tools to copy the content from your physical book into D&D Beyond (Note: Do not publish any content copied in this way; it is for personal use only)

[shrewd thistle]

alright

[final raft]

hello everyone. he said as he wandered in.

all nonchalant. all yare yare.

[empty thicket]

Welcome there, age and race?
Pull out a big book with ages of each race

[fossil hollow]

(dont actually post your age)

[obtuse stratus]

Or your race, species is fine.

[crimson gulch]

You can play that on your own though?

[modest ocean]

Low key if I want to bring my dnd character to other campaigns I have to make a new one bc my freinds and I play by the rules but make diff rules also kinda. The dm is making the story but is is normal to have 21 ac at lvl 2😭✌️

[final raft]

pulls out a giant book. 'yes im THE CLERIC.' AHEMS LOUDLY

[crimson gulch]

21 ac at level 2 is a bit high

19 easy with starting equipment and a sheild

[modest ocean]

Yea but me and my friends make up some rules too saying my dm is making the story

[fierce sparrow]

I mean its possible if you roll for stats and have a shield and be a barbarian

[modest ocean]

Like we did just face a 30 AC 1.2k health dragon 🐉 so yea

I’m also a halfling bard bc bard is music related kinda and I love music 🎵

[jolly agate]

Gawd i hate making char sheets, they are so confusing sometimes

[humble cairn]

What are you getting stuck on?

[jolly agate]

Nah im almost there, it just took a while

[marble lion]

Its my favourite part

[modest ocean]

But lowkey during that boss fight since the dm can make up rule and my friend got this weapon he wanted in a chest under a pile of bones so I was like I want something to lol so I search get whacked by the tail then I search CAUTIOUSLY then I get blown up by a chest then I did search again I get blown up by a invisible trip wire like bruuuuu then again when it’s my turn i STEP in dragon POOP 💩 and explode and I’m like BRUUUUUUUU so I gave up trying to find something 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[empty thicket]

i kinda like it sometimes.
The making a new character its kinda addicting to me

[woven flint]

My Warforged Pugilist and his Dog kicked ass this session 😎

We also leveled up :>

[fossil hollow]

next time, on Orien Express:
Man kills his dog

[woven flint]

If someone kills my dog, they'll die

[fossil hollow]

correction:
robot kills their dog

[humble cairn]

Someone killed my raptor.

[fossil hollow]

😁 No pet or familiar is safe from me. Billicuss has the best streak so far

[sinful gulch]

you could say im plastered, cuz i hit the wall

[fossil hollow]

wot

#find-a-game

[cerulean monolith]

I genuinely might have to start leaving him behind. Shield guardians are scary vulnerable in late tier 3

[sinful gulch]

yes

[river vector]

My shadow monk player was bragging about having silence (just reached third level) because now he could "use it on my Lich that is trying to ally with the party and likes to talk a lot" I informed him that the Lich would simply walk out of the bubble, then cast Power Word Kill.

[woven flint]

Timothy mothington

[river vector]

There are channels for this.... Go to those.

No.

[woven flint]

"1 message hidden from likely spammer."
Hmmm.

[empty thicket]

unless he force him to be in the bubble, i think while being inside of it the lich cant use any of his close combat attacks

unless he carry some sort of magic item that compensate such thing

Aka, some powerful weapon or something to either break the bubble or get away from it

[radiant night]

Howdy

[river vector]

He is literally level three, doing something so disrespectful to a LICH of all beings would result in the Lich killing him. It's not about the Lich breaking away or not.

It's only 20ft of silence

[cursive ledge]

are there any spells other than zone of truth that would be rlly good in a court trial?

[river vector]

Detect thoughts

[cursive ledge]

I forgot that existed but I’d also count it under the zone of truth school of “you don’t even need the trial,” I’m tryna think of things that help out your side without outright winning

[empty thicket]

wait, why in the god of cannelloni he would face a lich being lvl3?

[cursive ledge]

ig detect thoughts isn’t a free win but it’s more info than id want

[river vector]

He isn't. The Lich is meant to be a potential morally ambiguous patron. He said he would cast silence on The Lich, because it likes to monologue. I told him the Lich would just kill his character if he did that.

[empty thicket]

let him experience the thin life of messing around and doing not so smart things

[river vector]

Power Word Pain would be me being nice

[cursive ledge]

how many power words are there?

[river vector]

Don't know. A bunch.

[winter yarrow]

are there any groups that are possibly doing a session that could take in a new player, i use a rouge, can give a character sheet if dm would like

[limber trail]

A third level player thinking they have a chance against a lich, tale as old as time

[river vector]

#find-a-game

[limber trail]

in 2024 there are 5

[empty thicket]

Pain, stun, kill and idk the other 2

[limber trail]

(Kill, Stun, Heal, Fortify, Pain)

[cursive ledge]

I’m guessing pain is usually just for ppl that have too much hp to die to kill?

[limber trail]

Pain gives disadvantage on certain d20 tests from memory

I'd say it's the worst power word to be honest

[cursive ledge]

makes sense

[limber trail]

"You speak a word of power that causes waves of intense pain to assail one creature you can see within range. If the target has 100 hit points or fewer, it is subject to crippling pain. Otherwise, the spell has no effect on it. A target is also unaffected if it is immune to being charmed.

While the target is affected by crippling pain, any speed it has can be no higher than 10 feet. The target also has disadvantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws, other than Constitution saving throws. Finally, if the target tries to cast a spell, it must first succeed on a Constitution saving throw, or the casting fails and the spell is wasted.

A target suffering this pain can make a Constitution saving throw at the end of each of its turns. On a successful save, the pain ends."

So speed of 10 feet, disadvantage on d20 tests other than con saves, and need to make a con save to cast a spell

It's fine but not incredible because at 100hp you can usually just kill the creature in a couple turns, especially with a 7th level slot

[tropic bison]

hey lads, just uhh askin, whos a dm ere?

[humble cairn]

Maybe we could have Bilikus attuned to my Companion. Even taking double Blueberry's life in damage wouldn't kill him. And then he would stop taking damage because Blueberry would be downed.

[lavish flame]

tons of people, you lookin for a game?

[tropic bison]

that, but i also had this idea for a narrative dnd setting

[limber trail]

Most folks with a blue name are DMs. That said, if you wanna discuss a setting, you'll get way better feedback in #dm-world-building

[tropic bison]

gotcha, thank you

[river vector]

He does not know how strong they are. This is good, it means he hasn't been metagaming.

[humble cairn]

I have DM'd in the past, but there is also the #dm-discussion channel of you wanted to ask specific questions. Also remember not everyone in the room is a lad.

[tropic bison]

my apologies

[cerulean monolith]

For one, shield guardians don’t require attunement anymore, but the bigger issue is that the wearer of the amulet is the one commanding it, and is also the only one who can benefit from its other-person-Shield. Second part we can let go, but I’m not sure if an animal is intelligent enough to command a robot in battle

[humble cairn]

Ha, that'd be funny.

[cerulean monolith]

The strat probably is just to remove the amulet when he gets low, let him regen without worrying about taking extra damage, then put it back on when he’s healed up

[glacial dome]

Hey I’m new player looking for a DnD party to join some where in the Roseburg OR area hopefully in person, anyone have suggestions or know of a group?

[limber trail]

I would check your local game stores and local facebook groups, this server isn't gonna have any useful information for finding irl groups

[empty thicket]

useful to destroy the morale of the players and force them to either protect the injuried or help him

[glacial dome]

Thank you

[empty thicket]

or if there is any convention in your area check there, those tend to have at least some people

[river vector]

If he does try to use silence my Lich would counterspell it, then use power word pain to torture Monk while monologuing about how foolish he is, then finally finish him off with power word kill.
Monk goes to afterlife, meets goddess of death
She gives him two options, to stay dead, or to hunt down escaped souls for her.

[empty thicket]

worse, would leave him at 1 hp

Power word him and then revivify him while torturing his allies

[humble cairn]

Silence has a longer range than Counterspell, which means you can get one off on a lich if you have the range.

[empty thicket]

Showing how his foolishness only backfired him so bad that made his whole party suffer and then he would lock them up to experiment on them and torture them. Always leaving the monk alone without an injury so he feel even worse

or too much?

[limber trail]

I would maybe be a little generous with it and give him one freebie and a stern warning, followed up with the full pwk treatment for the second offense

The Lich seems to want to be allied with the party after all

A show of restraint may help

[river vector]

Still would have the Lich slap him or tell him to grovel or something.

I feel liches have massive egos

Would not take kindly to getting silenced

[river vector]

He would be right next to the Lich because they would be talking lol.

[exotic sinew]

If I choose not to use the standard gear and take gold from class and background does that mean I can buy whatever I want

[stuck shuttle]

Generally yeah you can buy whatever you can afford

You should at least purchase the basic equipment necessary for your class (e.g. armor, weapon, spell focus, etc)

[empty thicket]

in theory, you can buy some basic gear in general.
For either optimize your character or fit with your background//gimmick

Idk if the standard gear is higher in total gold compared to the gold you can get. But considerat is useful for the starter levels

[river vector]

I like this. Something to keep in mind if he treats my Lich like a joke.

[humble cairn]

Not whatever you want, usually stuff from the equipment chapter that are not magic items should be okay, but this is a DM question. The DM controls what is available to buy and if there are any price differences: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment

[cursive ledge]

doing this over and over to the same person would be a really effective torture method

[exotic sinew]

Alright only asking cause I wanted to just take the gold and buy the things I want from the equipment chapter and didn’t know if that’s how it worked.

[empty thicket]

"Na we are good, he wont do us such thing"

[humble cairn]

Yep! Generally so.

[jolly agate]

FINALY FINISHED THE CHAR SHEET FOR MA SILLY LITTLE DHAMPIR BARD

now i gotta work in the backstory

[river vector]

All while evilly chuckling

[cursive ledge]

it’s like when you die to a boss over and over and they have the same “killed you” voice line every time

[river vector]

"We can definitely screw with Lich, he wants to be allies! That means he must be weak! Right? Right?"

[burnt valley]

Is this 2014

[river vector]

Yes

[rough basalt]

Players trying to pick a fight with stronger beings than they can handle is always fun RP

Or presenting a situation where they physically can't pick a fight with one, but said being has no interest in fighting, least you know that. They don't.

[burnt valley]

I'll cheer em on if they manage to pull it off

If the DM is whipping out a homebrew mid fight, thats a win for them ngl

[limber trail]

They’re level 3, they won’t win

[rough basalt]

My first bbeg entrance was after a long and hard boss fight.
He basically just walked into the boss room, talked to them, grabbed something then left saying "will see ya later"

[burnt valley]

LEVEL 3?

Bruh, it would be believable if it was like Lvl 8 or smth

[rough basalt]

Sucks that I never got to reveal them or see them defeated.

[limber trail]

I’m fairly sure so, DM mentioned the monk just got silence

[river vector]

Monk started bragging about what he would do today

[burnt valley]

Humble that martial asap, use paralyzing touch

Their ego will get bigger if you dont

[exotic sinew]

Sweet thank you very much for all the help you provide me

[river vector]

My BBEG has yet to be seen beyond the start (it's not the lich)

They haven't seen him since he made off with their souls.

[rough basalt]

This was in an older game I wish I saw to completion.

My current campaigns don't have bbegs yet

Closest would be in my Monday game would be a Bandit that beat the party awhile back.

[river vector]

I see. Nemesis system eh? That's cool. Love those games.

[rough basalt]

Yeah since Warner Bros wants to never let it escape their grubby hands and never use it again, gonna use it in dnd.

He was originally CR4, now he's ||CR9 or 10 I forget atm||

[river vector]

Tbh I didn't even plan on having my Lich appear in person but now it sounds interesting to do so.

[rough basalt]

My Wednesday game ran into a Goddess, a Mummy Lord and a Nord in his underwear in the first session at level 1

[river vector]

I was thinking more on some sort of projection. Lich spoke to party in dreams last time.

[river vector]

Just regular DND things

[rough basalt]

Come to think of it both campaigns have had strong starts in absurdity

Monday started with them getting the Deck of Many Things and a PC getting donjon'd

[river vector]

DECK OF MANY THINGS?!?!

[rough basalt]

Wednesday session 1 ended with one PC angered a Mummy Lord, same PC is also 1900gp in debt, and another PC is undertaking trials to be a champion of the Goddess of Death

[rough basalt]

My random tables for my campaigns are very kooky

They vary from very simple to downright absurd

[lavish flame]

I'm lucky in that my last character's Deck of Many Things draws were all pretty positive! I got the magic item card and the "get a level up if you're Lebron in ur next encounter" but I was never Him, so never got the level.

[rough basalt]

To give you an idea.
My Wednesday group ended the session stuck in a narrow valley with Dust Devils and a Gelatinous Cube upon them.

Level 1 fighter having uncommon plate armor that can summon a cr3 monster is also very ridiculous

But he's 1900gp in debt to Bjornulf the Unclothed, and he makes sure his debts are paid back.

[lavish flame]

could he pay Bjornulf back by providing him clothes?

[rough basalt]

Nah, he has a phase 2 where he becomes Bjornulf the Clothed

Basically what happened is he came to this desert country with two sets of clothes. His old ones from a cold country and new desert clothes he picked up.
Well, he had to fight a fire mage, and they burned his desert clothes

And he didn't wanna wear Winter Clothes in 90+ degree weather

Some bard that witnessed the fight called him Bjornulf the Unclothed, and it stuck, and Bjornulf himself found it hilarious and stuck to the bit.

[fierce tendon]

Poll:
Should I buy the 3 regular cover core books, blow out my wallet for the alt covers on ebay, or wait for a potential box set that includes all 3 for a lower price?

[turbid vessel]

I struggle to give buying advice cause my instinct is to be cautious about finances 😭

[radiant night]

I have one commitment in my life and it's to the bit

[fierce tendon]

That's respectable. lol
I really, really love the alt covers (my favorite deity is Lolth and my favorite monsters are Illithids) but for the money I could get so many other books.

[rough basalt]

Me: I can't justify 70 dollars for a Monster book even tho I'll use it regularly.
Also me: spending 150 dollars on modules I might not run.

[inner silo]

Wrath of the sea with spike growth sounds so great ngl

[woven flint]

People were calling my warforged a terminator this session (though, he didn't particularly kill anyone because most of his combat is nonlethal)
But he was like, right on everyones asses enemywise the whole session lol

[lavish flame]

yo ill have to forward this to my Sea Druid player

[woven flint]

He's a Dog & Hound Pugilist and he and his dog really do got that dog in them lol

[fast galleon]

Ill never understand why Grave Domain gets Revivify and Raise Dead... they go against the lore of the domain itself as stated in the subclass.

Anyone else feel this way? Because it literally says resisting death to them is an abomination.

[fierce sparrow]

Get down

Oh I have a question for other people is an arrow a weapon

[paper portal]

no it's ammunition why

[fast galleon]

Its ammunition.

If used as a weapon itd be an improvised weapon.

[alpine plume]

hey guys rq, whats the strongest CR3 monstrosity creature

[fierce sparrow]

I was thinking about if the warlock could make their weapon an arrow

[paper portal]

would be cool ngl but nah

[fast galleon]

I could be wrong but I think it specifies a simple or martial weapon.

Which would disqualify improvised weapons.

But ask your dm as they can always overrule that

[fierce sparrow]

There is alot of options really depends how the dm plays them between the basilisk, green hag and doppelganger

Minus green hag cause thats a fey but green hag is fun anyways

[alpine plume]

what if it was for a wildshape

ive got displacer beast at the top rn

[woven flint]

Displacer Beast can't be used for wildhsape alas

[fierce sparrow]

I mean doppleganger is pretty scary cause you can turn into anything with good skills pass of as anybody temporarily and basilisk might be broken unless dm counters it somehow

[woven flint]

Unless I'm misreading lol

[fierce sparrow]

I'm assuming this is not normal rules

[alpine plume]

yes, im using a mask

its called a mask of monstrous forms

[woven flint]

I think a Monstrosity based druid would be incredibly and almost too powerful tbh
Not that I'd mind personally, but it'd be a crazy subclass idea

[alpine plume]

yea, the way the mask works is that you basically only choose one monstrosity creature, and then spend 2 wildshape uses to get that

[fierce sparrow]

I want to make a homebrew dino based druid class

[alpine plume]

ive asked our dm and he said it was fine, but only monstrosities, so no like fey or anything

but yea that doppelganger looks fun, but the displacer beast is js so good

and it has built in evasion

[limber trail]

Moon druids already can wild shape into (most) dinos. Only a couple are out of their CR range (T-Rex, and probably one other from memory)

[limber trail]

In terms of raw damage numbers, an owlbear has a very impressive damage total of about 28dpr with a +7 to hit. (This is compared to a Displacer Beast's 20dpr with a +6 to hit). It offers less utility and less HP, but it's a strong damage option.

[alpine plume]

I see, ty

[inner silo]

which is better on a melee/medium ranged druid to get better ac, taking a level of cleric or choosing warden for your primal orden?

[limber trail]

I would also suggest a Phase Spider. Very solid damage numbers and a lot of mobility. It also has a bonus action to jump between planes if things are dicey.

Manticores if you can get them yet have amazing flight, the damage is a little lacking though. (21 dpr on a +5)

Hook Horrors have some nice mobility and probably have the best AC/HP of the lot. Decent damage numbers and blindsight.

As others mentioned, Basilisks have petrifying gaze, it's just so good.

[fierce sparrow]

I'm pretty sure a level of life cleric is extremely good on druid

[limber trail]

I would just take the warden order

[inner silo]

itd be for 2024 so i wouldnt be able to choose a subclass

[paper portal]

warden, you probably want martial weapons anyways and progression in your main class is almost always better than multiclassing

also tbh missing out on magician really isnt a big deal

[limber trail]

There's not a lot of level 1 cleric spells you need to get that you don't already have, the other primal order iirc is better for more RP features but not useful for combat which is what you seem to want. It sets your spellcasting progression back a level too, you'll be getting new spells a level later. (The slots will be on time, but you won't be able to learn the spells for that slot for another level afterward.

[inner silo]

it letting you be good at nature and arcana is pretty sweet though probably not necessary. I`m the only wisdom focused member of my party so thats enough utility probably

[inner silo]

Alrighty, thanks for explaining!

[limber trail]

Nature and Arcana are nice to be good at but I'm gonna be honest when I played a druid with the magician order, it was mainly just because the things it offers were funnier (I was going for as many cantrips as possible and really wanted to hit double digits nature and arcana bonuses

Mechanically it was not that useful, I could have 100% gotten by without it

although I will ask now, what druid subclass are you planning on taking?

[inner silo]

just id be the only one with a decent int check because everyone else is a charisma caster

[inner silo]

circle of the sea and try being a controller, pushing people back and forth through spike growth and hitting them with lightning and ice

[limber trail]

yeah okay Warden is the play

[inner silo]

Alright, thanks again!

[paper portal]

warden is just the better one tbh you never dont want medium armor

[inner silo]

Btw, could you, mayhap, suggest a feat that could be good for control except telekinetic (since that eats a precious bonus action which i already have armed cuz wrath of the sea)

[inner silo]

kind of like protector for cleric ig

[fierce sparrow]

Resilience con maybe

[limber trail]

War Caster is usually a good time. Fey or Shadow Touched offer some nice spell options if you're feeling a little limited on spells/spell slots. Resilient Con is also a good shout

[inner silo]

would warcaster let me cast while wielding two shields?

[limber trail]

The issue there is wielding two shields - you can only actually wield one, ever

[inner silo]

oh shoot

[limber trail]

It would let you cast spells while wielding a shield and a quarterstaff however

[inner silo]

wouldnt a quarterstaff, since its a foci let you cast spells while holding it anyway?

[limber trail]

The issue from memory is somatic components but I haven't looked at those rules in a while

[inner silo]

i see

[limber trail]

I may be wrong on that

[inner silo]

ig concentration saves advantage is really great too

[limber trail]

and also cantrip AOOs is very nice, especially for a control druid

[inner silo]

and the occasinal opportunity attack actually being useful as ill likely be melee either way

[inner silo]

for sure! getting hit with thorn whip or frostbite could be a pain

[limber trail]

Thorn whip is great for that

you can also get creative and use it to cast guidance as a reaction, which I wouldn't recommend but it would be possible

[inner silo]

also imo spawning spike growth and hitting enemies with a wrath of the sea thorn whip through it would be fun

[inner silo]

true, maybe if someone wanted to grapple as thats an athletics check right?

[limber trail]

in 2024 it's a strength or dex save

[inner silo]

dang

tbh id keep it as a athletics contest

as that lets a bard be a decent grappler which is very funny imo

[humble cairn]

Yes that works if you keep one hand free. Two handed or versatile weapons making two handed attacks only need two hands on the weapon at the moment of the attack, otherwise leaving your other hand free to cast.

[limber trail]

depends how your DM runs it

[humble cairn]

Yes, but wielding two shields gains you no benefit over wielding one shield, so there's no point.

[inner silo]

so if i want to wield a shield id need war caster either way?

[humble cairn]

For spells with S but no M components, yes.

[limber trail]

you could keep the other hand free and use that for your spells, holding nothing else

[inner silo]

i see

[humble cairn]

It makes more sense how it is now, and that's me saying it as a former Rogue who had Athletics Expertise.

[humble cairn]

Druid doesn't have a lot of support for melee weapons based play.

[exotic sinew]

Is 18 ac too much for a level 1 cleric……

[limber trail]

nope

18 is pretty reasonable for what clerics can usually achieve

As long as that's all using armour you can afford or get with your starting equipment you're fine

[burnt valley]

Control is king

[exotic sinew]

Yea I took the gold rather than equipment from background and class, took protector for my divine order, and with the gold I bought chain mail, a shield, battle axe and a few other things so yea my ac is sitting at 18 from the start.

[fierce sparrow]

Is haste still good in 5.5

[limber trail]

now you do get to play a fun game, which is the hand economy game. Make sure you still have a hand free at all times to cast spells with S components.

[limber trail]

It's basically the same to my knowledge so generally yeah it's a pretty good spell. It has all of the same drawbacks and upsides.

[limber trail]

But yeah an 18 ac isn't absurd. I play a campaign with a cleric who had a 19 AC at level 1.

[flint ledge]

I feel like haste is a consistently good spell

[lavish flame]

idk if a single character is different between 5e and 5.5e Haste

[inner silo]

true, but i wanted to be a spellcasting based close/melee fighter thanks to wrath of the sea and thorn whip combined with spike growth

[limber trail]

it can be bad if you're in a situation where you're likely to lose concentration

[inner silo]

i wander if i could find a word for command to make the enemy run around in circles on my spike growth

[flint ledge]

That's true

[limber trail]

It’s a great pickup with war caster

Especially because in 2024 you can do funny business with it and war caster

[fierce sparrow]

Its great with pole arm master wizard

[burnt valley]

I suggest not taking it for the risks alone, Bless is better

[humble cairn]

Well Thorn Whip would be your thing, then. It's not like you can do Thorn Whip and a weapon attack anyway.

[burnt valley]

No in both editions

[exotic sinew]

Wait do I would have to have my axe stowed to cast spells. Does it take like an action to pull out a weapon

[inner silo]

true

[paper portal]

yeah haste is generally outdone by other buffing spells partially because of the big drawback

but also just bless provides a lot more value for its spell level

[burnt valley]

Yes

[inner silo]

also i feel like this is the build that could get use out of poison spray as id always be in range to use it and its my highest damage option if my action is free

[fierce sparrow]

Dual casting support haste two other people

[burnt valley]

Bless is also pretty cheap too

[flint ledge]

Bless is pretty great

[paper portal]

according to pack tactics bless is actually just better overall but that does assume having 3 good targets for it

[burnt valley]

So four birds with one stone

[inner silo]

using haste on a melee class to let them dodge every round can be pretty great i think

[limber trail]

1. potentially losing two turns in one combat could lead to a TPK
2. this specifies 2024, where you can’t twin spell haste

[flint ledge]

I don't know why no one in my campaigns pick it

[limber trail]

The drawback is really bad if it goes off

[burnt valley]

Ideally a non full caster would cast this for other casters

[flint ledge]

I meant bless, I understand why haste they just got level 6 so they'd rather cast fireball

[fierce sparrow]

PAM 1 lv fighter dip on a wizard and reach weapon still

[inner silo]

btw are there good high level attack roll spells?

[paper portal]

also the limit on what actions you can take really limit it, if it allowed casting then it would be a decent option but one more weapon attack is generally not gonna do as much as you think

[limber trail]

Blade of Disaster comes to mind as the biggest one

[humble cairn]

Which only works using 2014 Twinned Spell.

[inner silo]

is that the cool 9th level spell?

[limber trail]

Yes

[fierce sparrow]

I've never done it myself just heard about that

[limber trail]

It can be useful if you have ways to stack damage, like with holy weapon

[humble cairn]

I once had Haste and Fly on me as a Rogue because I really needed to get across a huge battlefield and up a tower. I was going at nearly 500 speed. I wasn't even movement optimized.

[burnt valley]

Melee is lul, that's even more risks to yourself when engaging in melee and whilst concentrating on haste, not to parade on your schtick but this is a bad idea

[paper portal]

peak

[flint ledge]

I mean even if you'd be limited to a cantrip no?

[exotic sinew]

How does this work ??

[paper portal]

yeah same issue conjure minor elementals has but that's balanced out by its insanely high damage

[fierce sparrow]

not if you have feats and con save prof cause fighter and still able to cast fireball or other spell

[burnt valley]

RAW, it will only let you take 1 attack action

[humble cairn]

Is this 2014 or 2024?

[exotic sinew]

24. I only play 24 sorry

[paper portal]

partially depends on the version you're playing, 2014 allows you to draw or stow, not both, once per turn while 2024 does it per attack

[paper portal]

still better than an attack especially once you get the cantrip scaling at level 11

[humble cairn]

Better for you then. You have both one free draw/stow per turn and you can draw or stow for free once per attack in the Attack action.

[exotic sinew]

Oh okay so if I need to cast a spell I can put I axe away for free and then cast it cool cool

That’s good to know

[burnt valley]

Its not exactly worth slowing down spell progression for str, con saves and armor/shield prof when there's like another class that does dips better (Artificer)

[fierce sparrow]

What 1 fighter dip is like the best dip in the game

[burnt valley]

1 level of Artificer gives you everything you need, Int and Con saves, not slowing down spell progression and still get medium armour/shield proficiencies

[fierce sparrow]

But not heavy armor

[knotty pasture]

Heavy armor dips are really awkward in general

[burnt valley]

You dont want heavy armor for Wizard

[knotty pasture]

Cuz that means you're throwing away dex

[burnt valley]

And it slows you down cuz you dont meet the strength requirement

[knotty pasture]

Heavy armor is however excellent on a monoclass

[exotic sinew]

Do I have to like specify that’s what I am doing or is it usually implied

[humble cairn]

Uhh, generally it's not a big deal just keep the explanation in mind just in case your DM asks you, "How do you have a free hand to do that?"

[exotic sinew]

Oki doki will do

[burnt valley]

Forge cleric is pretty funny

[flint ledge]

In situations like those I'm always very tempted to just buff the effect

As a DM I mean

[paper portal]

main use of heavy armor is on pallies but its pretty cool to use it on a cleric with a fast race so you just dump strength

stopping the main strength class from using heavy armor was a bit of a weird design decision

[knotty pasture]

Probably concerned about it being too SAD, but I agree

Barb needs all the love it could get and more

[limber trail]

To be fair barbarians are less “don’t get hit” and more “reduce damage”. They’re great in 2024 especially.

[humble cairn]

Yeah Barbs are in a better place in the new rules. I played one, he was fun.

[paper portal]

and honestly best saves for wizard would be cha/con but taking a sorc level is very much not worth it lol

[fossil jay]

Hi!

[paper portal]

hello :3

[fierce sparrow]

Alright I'll just have my heavy armor bards and wizards that have fireball and good con saves all to myself

[limber trail]

I’ve DMd two barbarians at two different levels and they’ve been so strong both times. Awesome class.

[burnt valley]

True true, you generally focus on charisma maxxing as a Pally anyway

[knotty pasture]

Sorc is a situational dip in 2014 for Wiz I find

[limber trail]

I’ve usually found the best paladins have a really good strength and charisma is secondary

[knotty pasture]

Go DDS and grab Bless or something

[paper portal]

you can get good con saves from arti that's why everyone dips that instead of fighter

[flint ledge]

I mean a lot of monsters also received extra elemental damage in 2024

[knotty pasture]

Just outclassed by Cleric

[paper portal]

also heavy armor bard wut

[limber trail]

(Especially non-devotion paladins)

[knotty pasture]

May I introduce you to my Tortle Bard

[paper portal]

well con saves are better but yeah lol not worth it

[limber trail]

They did, yes, but not enough to totally break the class and it hasn’t at all affected my barbarians’ abilities to take absurd amounts of punishment

[humble cairn]

That's how I built my Glory Paladin. I even had a Manual of Gainful Exercise that I proselytized from.

[paper portal]

well the hypothetical "optimal" paladin is cha focused but thats not something most people care about

[knotty pasture]

People don't understand the beauty of the aura

[limber trail]

I built my vengeance paladin as Charisma first with a pretty bad strength and was hurting from it in the long run until I got a belt

[knotty pasture]

It shines (no pun intended)

[paper portal]

aop is second only to spellcasting itself in terms of strong features

[knotty pasture]

Not flashy enough I presume, granted the official guides didn't really help either with promoting str >> cha

[flint ledge]

It's so weird that paladins are charisma focused, couldn't you straight up dump Charisma with no problem whatsoever if you just use smites

[humble cairn]

Aura of Protection is great! Having a good attack stat so you can actively do stuff successfully is also pretty great.

[humble cairn]

Why is it weird?

[knotty pasture]

You can but you're just playing a weird Fighter

[paper portal]

based take

[limber trail]

Aura of Protection is so useful and so strong but I wouldn’t say it’s the strongest in the game, especially in slightly larger maps and encounters with more room to spread out

[burnt valley]

Then you're out of slots

[humble cairn]

Yeah, you really can't count on covering all your party members with the Aura all the time.

[knotty pasture]

It sees more value when Paladin can afford to stay back as a result of multiclassing to a caster or going Dexadin

Cuz you'd be hugging your non martials

[robust fable]

Aura of Protection is the most important feature for Paladins

[flint ledge]

Okay it's not weird that they're charisma focused but rather that one of the main features straight up doesn't care about your actual spellcasting modifier

[knotty pasture]

Hugging your fellow martials is harder to maintain

[limber trail]

Investing too much in charisma can be a trap as a paladin. A decent charisma is great, I think +3 is the target

[knotty pasture]

Divine Smite is not your main feature for the record

[burnt valley]

Yeah, charisma maxxing helps out EBARB damage and Aura of Protection

[knotty pasture]

Like how Druids aren't all about Wild Shape, its the funky spell list

[humble cairn]

I mean the same goes for Rangers. It's kind of a half caster thing.

[robust fable]

A good Paladin basicly should basicly never use Divine Smite

[limber trail]

I’m saying this with direct experience as someone who did this exact thing as a paladin

[humble cairn]

Ehh, there are uses for Divine Smite, especially in 2024. Also maybe especially if you're a Glory Paladin who can splash around THP when you do.

[paper portal]

i rly dislike how much people let wild shape define druid, its only an important feature for moon druids

[burnt valley]

A good Palalock generally have a pact with a patron to have a limb fall off everytime there's a slight modicum of temptation to smite

[humble cairn]

It's also really useful as a non-Moon Druid, but generally not for combat.

[quasi quiver]

My first season went pretty good today

[burnt valley]

True

[humble cairn]

But I do like how 2024 made Divine Smite one of your smites and not singled it out as special, because the other smites also have their place and are useful.

[paper portal]

useful but nowhere near class defining

also plant growth is an awesome spell just wanted to mention that cus i love it :3

[humble cairn]

As a full caster, nothing is going to come very close to class defining as their spell list.

[burnt valley]

It is a meta spell, helps out dealing with melee creatures

[vernal owl]

i just love turning into a housefly instead of rolling stealth

[primal wolf]

there's some useful cases for divine smite [undead spellcasters] but pally's biggest contribution to high-op parties is the aura of protection because of the fact saves in this game suck and AoP is one of the few ways to boost them equally.

However, AoP also encourages grouping up, which IME gets you smacked with the massive AOE damage that almost anything that throws a threatening save is also going to want to throw at you. Better to just have ways to not have to make saves in the first place or have cures to the conditions enemies throw your way than dedicate 20-25% of your party to being a +20% savechance increaser who honestly even fails at that job in a lot of scenarios.

[paper portal]

alternatively have pwt up and just guaranteed pass every stealth check but that does use up conc that a lot of the time you dont wanna

[flint ledge]

I think it's nice that they let other subclasses use their wildshapes for different things but yeah wildshape is always going to be something people mainly associate druids with

[humble cairn]

High-op is one game style and not every game style, though.

[robust fable]

I think i look down on Divine Smite even more than most optimizers (such as TTB)

Like i sometimes see people bring up while the overall damage of smiting is bad, it has good nova

But not really?

[tough lynx]

Smite at level 2 is 9 extra damage 2 times a day

[vernal owl]

its one of my fav spells although i barely get a chance to use it sighh

[vale kettle]

Thats a statement if i have ever seen one

[burnt valley]

Honestly, some of them just look at the 1/20 chance of a crit for big damage and think its good

[tough lynx]

That’s not really a good use of resources

[primal wolf]

ok? it's the style I'm discussing

[burnt valley]

Exactly

[vernal owl]

ive maybe used it once as a trickery domain cleric and once as a ranger

[paper portal]

talk about it with your party, if they're willing to commit to stealth its insanely good (at least in 2014 rules)

its cool to see more people get into optimizing ngl

[vernal owl]

ah its more of the fact that we havent gotten a situation where stealth could be as useful, i wouldnt bring it up in such cases

[primal wolf]

i'm pretty generous with divine smite since i'm a nova enjoyer but even then it's not great. the thing divine smite has going for it is in particular nuking low-hp caster enemies

[burnt valley]

The community nowadays just get hostile at even the slightest of optimization unfortunately

[paper portal]

nova is cool but i'd rather use eldritch smite so you can stay at range (also im biased towards warlocks)

[paper portal]

yeah i was expecting it to be the same here tbh

[primal wolf]

My preffered damage method is swarm of flying snakes

[paper portal]

swarmkeeper?

[primal wolf]

conjure animals

[paper portal]

ah lmao

[burnt valley]

It will be at some point, especially if you try to interact with the Adventurer's League people, had multiple bad experiences with them and my local AL table

[tough lynx]

Conjure animals with a third level spell slot does more damage that most martials

[knotty pasture]

(It is)

[humble cairn]

Yes, and actually thank you for mentioning it so we know what perspective you're coming from!

[burnt valley]

Velociraptor moment

[knotty pasture]

#optimization is our little globe of invulnerablity though

[paper portal]

drat foiled again

[tough lynx]

And that stays true until like idk level 17?

[burnt valley]

At Level 17, nothing matters cuz you are a deity

[tough lynx]

I haven’t done the calcs yet

[tough lynx]

Not the martials

[paper portal]

provided youre playing a caster ofc

[burnt valley]

Oh my bad thought you were talking about fullcasters

[paper portal]

hey flag ranger can kinda almost not really keep up!

[flint ledge]

Honestly conjure animals is really strong but at my table I just restrict the CR 1/4 option because having 8 additional turns is just really an annoyance for the whole table

[tough lynx]

I’m saying a single cast of ca at third level outdamages most martials (this includes ones that aren’t fully oped though

[knotty pasture]

Have them auto attack at the same time

[burnt valley]

With guns yeah

[tough lynx]

Monks are still in the garbage without gunk

[knotty pasture]

Gunk is an artstyle

[primal wolf]

yeah like if you're enjoying playing a strength-based pally in a casual game then cool i just can't help but optimize in every game i play and want some challenge to go along with that

[tough lynx]

Just get an autoroller or roll ahead of time

[knotty pasture]

Also hi Wizard man

[tough lynx]

Hi

[knotty pasture]

Or woman, my bad*

[paper portal]

well i mostly play with friends so i try to avoid optimizing and somehow still end up with the strongest character in the party a lot of the time lol

[tough lynx]

Sil was the person who wrote the article I sent you

[paper portal]

i feel like that one xkcd about geologists

[humble cairn]

I've had that experience.

[tough lynx]

Wamon

[primal wolf]

autoroller is cool, especially if the DM wants to just tell me their AC

[burnt valley]

Auto rollers help alot with multiattacks unless ur stuck with mobile or smth

[knotty pasture]

Poggers, ty for contributing towards my research Sil

[mighty quartz]

i hate optimizing dude i want my character to be a little bit bad, brings more fun to a campaign

[tough lynx]

Minor conjuration tech

[robust fable]

Like lets look at it at lvl 8, the earliest lvl where Paladin is not just an unplugged controller:

The Smiting Paladin has PAM, Dueling, Extra Attack and 18 str/cha (in case of Hex dip) they will use 1 smite/turn

dpr: 29.02 if they ise a first lvl slot, 34.4 if they use a 2nd lvl slot (because you do burn slots fast, here is the at-will dpr too: 18.28)

[paper portal]

optimizing doesnt always mean picking the best option, sometimes its about knowing which options are strong so you can pick something stupid instead

[humble cairn]

I think perhaps that's stretching the term "optimizing" a bit.

[burnt valley]

Or making your build functional without relying on DM fiat

[humble cairn]

Not everyone optimizes, though it is a skill everyone can learn.

[robust fable]

With using first lvl smites for all of your attacks: 46.9 dpr

[burnt valley]

Myowwa, whats the comparison like between that and EBARB, just curious

[paper portal]

personally my preference is mid high so theres a bit of room to screw around without finding out

[humble cairn]

Optimizing is fun, but it's only one style of play, not everyone plays that way, and they are also playing the game right.

[flint ledge]

I have a question what's the notable difference between optimizing and min maxing or is that just a different word for it

[tough lynx]

An under appreciated part of smite being bad is that it encourages you to use all of your slots therefore no rest casting

[paper portal]

they mean the same thing but a lot of the time optimizing is used by people who do it and minmaxing is used by people who dont

[humble cairn]

Min maxing is one way to optimize, I believe. Like it's a skill you learn in order to optimize.

[tough lynx]

In optimisation there is no min only maxing

[humble cairn]

Min maxing is learning how to minimize weakness while maximizing strengths.

[paper portal]

i dont particularly want to maximise my strength unless im playing a barbarian

[knotty pasture]

Minmaxing is the far end of optimizing, optimizing is a scale

[burnt valley]

Besides isnt minmaxing a buzzword too? They technically mean the same thing

[humble cairn]

Good thing 2024 made it so you can only Smite once a turn.

[robust fable]

With 18 cha:

At-will: 11.95

Hex: 16.5

With 20 cha:

At-will: 14.2

Hex: 19.1

[knotty pasture]

Like the speed meter on your car vs hitting 180 km/h

[tough lynx]

In an 8 encounter day that is still 32 rounds

[paper portal]

well minmaxing in most games just means dumping your less relevant stats and putting everything into one or two but in dnd it more just means making a strong build yeah

[humble cairn]

Either way, learning to master the system and making characters that are numerically strong is a skill and a style of play. It's great, and the skill is useful, but not everyone wants to do that.

[knotty pasture]

People would mix their definitions but optimizing is a scale first and foremost

[paper portal]

mid high ftw

[knotty pasture]

Minmaxing is just the far end of it (by taking out all unnecessary elements by definition)

Going 8 str and 15 int on a wizard is also optimizing

The only way to not-not optimize is literally starting the game at 8 in all stats and without any equipment, only picking the absolute worst spells

[humble cairn]

I disagree.

[paper portal]

speaking of which i should make a paladin/druid just cus that sounds like fun

[primal wolf]

Green Knight

[burnt valley]

Ty

[tough lynx]

Well if you make a decision to be good that’s optimising

[knotty pasture]

Its a scale, going full 8s in my earlier metaphor would fall under not turning on your car at all

The moment you turn on your car and start moving you're optimizing in some way or the other, just at a socially acceptable level

So I guess like driving safely and not speeding

[flint ledge]

Ah I see. Thank you

[tough lynx]

When you make a decision one over the other you are either optimising or you are purposely making your character worse

[humble cairn]

Ok let me take back my statement a bit. Sure optimizing as a skill can be done at all sorts of different levels, but "the optimization playstyle" is a specific thing that not everyone does.

[humble cairn]

And some people do want to make their character purposely worse for fun, and that's okay as well.

[knotty pasture]

Yes, hence the socially acceptable part

Difference between driving at 40 vs 59 in a road with a 60 km limit

[robust fable]

Againts 19 ac:

Longsword+Dueling Fighter, lvl 20: 30.8 or 61.6 with action surge

CBE+SS, Archery Fighter lvl 20: 47.13 or 84.83 with action surge

8 Vecociraptors: 45.48

[burnt valley]

What, wouldn't that be detrimental to the party?

[tough lynx]

It’s fine I guess as long as people have said they are okay with a dead weight player

[tough lynx]

It would

[humble cairn]

The Beer and Pretzel play style where the emphasis is on just socializing and doing funny stuff in character is not optimization. The High Drama playstyle where people want to emphasize the story and plot over the mechanics is also not optimization and is also okay.

[burnt valley]

Force divider squared 😭

[flint ledge]

That... Can't be right, I guess I see why they completely changed the spell

[tough lynx]

Want me to work it out over an 8 encounter day?

[humble cairn]

Mechanically, perhaps, but if that has been discussed as a group and moreover if everyone is doing it, then it's okay. As long as everyone is having agreed upon fun, they're doing D&D right.

[robust fable]

But they also nerfer martial damage... and inflated monster hp

[knotty pasture]

In tf2 terms, people want their bottleknight in a mvm game and god forbid you vote kick

[midnight turtle]

Hi guys 👋

[robust fable]

Hi!

[midnight turtle]

Im new to dnd, my friends wanted to play so I joined to learn a bit about dm, do you guys have any basic tips for me to learn?

[humble cairn]

Not only fine, but good and right, as long as everyone is on the same page about it.

[midnight turtle]

Im having a hard time following the sheets and videos find online

[burnt valley]

Or snipers running the huntsman thinking its actually good cuz Soundsmith told them so

[humble cairn]

Hello! You might want to visit the #dnd-newcomers channel!

[midnight turtle]

Oh cool thanks

[flint ledge]

I don't really get why martials always seem to be beaten to the ground by wotc

[humble cairn]

It's honestly not a problem at most tables.

[tough lynx]

It’s wizards of the coast not martials of the cost

[robust fable]

Fireball againts ~3 targets already outclassed the shitty fighter

[humble cairn]

Ask Urizt next time you see him, he runs like 8 games a week professionally. He will tell you how martials absolutely rock.

[tough lynx]

Yeah because the ones where it would definitely be a problem they are all playing casters

[burnt valley]

They also buffed certain statblocks to the max for discouraging melee, Liches for example can now melee better than Lvl 20 martials and can paralyze no save on hit

[tough lynx]

Therefore no power imbalance

[robust fable]

Its a combination of wanting simple options+game design errors

[humble cairn]

No, its mostly because most tables aren't playing the Optimization Play style, where everyone is trying to overclock their characters and get the highest numbers possible.

[burnt valley]

Also Cloud Giants with incap no save on a 200ft+ ranged attack

[tough lynx]

I never said that

Don’t straw man

[humble cairn]

The Martial Caster Divide is not noticeable in most general play styles where people aren't trying to overclock.