dnd-discussion

[serene jolt]

Okay so when they roll the 5 and 18, since it's advantage, the roll is just 18. Silvery barbs happens and they roll a 20. They get 18 since that's the lower roll.

[humble cairn]

Best for certain specific things is a much more useful comparison than just "best/ worst class" I will agree. Even then there's room to differ in opinion. Cleric best to blast a bunch of undead into ash? Sure. By what about best at controlling them? That would be necromancer then.

[crystal latch]

Still wizards

[rough basalt]

Creature rolls advantage
Gets a 20 and 5
The 5 is gone
Silvery barbs the 20.
It rerolls into another 20.
They take the 2nd 20.

[meager fractal]

yeah that JUSt happened to me this weekend

[tame estuary]

advantage is you pick the heighest out of the two, reroll is you roll again and use that

[worn lagoon]

You could suggestion nystul planar bind a lich tbf

[clear goblet]

So it applies advantage to the reroll?

[rough basalt]

It is funny when they SB a hit into a crit.

[coarse ravine]

Turn undead has ruined countless undead encounters without destroying them

[glossy vigil]

I finally understood, thank you very much my friend, it was very helpful!

[coarse ravine]

Turn undead is why clerics are the best against undead

[meager fractal]

I also used inspiration to turn a nat 1 into a nat 1 today too. Master of alchemy wooo

[rough basalt]

No when you roll with advantage, the lower roll is discarded.
Then the higher roll gets rerolled which is just a reroll.

[humble cairn]

It certainly is very good.

[rough basalt]

The advantage part of the spell is something you can give to yourself or others on your next d20 test

[worn lagoon]

there are a few quirky ways for a cleric to control undead even better than a wizard in 2024

[clear goblet]

Wait mb, I read it wrong the first time. This makes sense

[fickle heart]

For example, I think the divide exists when someone truly approaches the game in a way that causes it, but I think that can easily occur for a plethora of other things aside from just balance. I also think the "fix" is just recognizing that the game doesn't necessarily fulfill those desires. If one can criticize a system for flaws that occur from (specifically fundamental) clashes in expectations, every system is definitively awful, y'know?

[coarse ravine]

Even if it doesn't destroy them. The higher cr undead get scared run away. Just so strong

[worn lagoon]

but they're mainly about being able to bind a singular very powerful undead to your will permanently, otherwise their typical animate dead undead are marginally weaker than a necromancer wizard's

[rough basalt]

Like if I were to approach Pathfinder and criticize it cause it's too complicated saying that's a problem with the system?

[fickle heart]

Bingo, yes. I think there's a fundamental difference between someone who Pathfinder doesn't actually appeal to criticizing Pathfinder for not appealing to them, even if they really try to involve themselves in Pathfinder to no success, and someone who wants to play Pathfinder for what it is good at criticizing it for not being good at that.

[crystal latch]

I don't think that Turn Undead makes cleric particularly good against undead
Its scaling is low enough that it will only really kill things that were negligible fodder many levels ago, the most important thing against any creature type is how good your spell list is

Turning is in itself solid but it doesn't make up for the generally far narrower toolkit

[tame estuary]

turn undead is weird for me, I wish it just always work on the low CR enemies

[coarse ravine]

You make the high crs run away

Then its pretty much hypnotic pattern at that point

[crystal latch]

On a failed save, sure

[coarse ravine]

You attack them one by one.

[crystal latch]

It's worse than Hypno because they don't stand still

[coarse ravine]

If every monster gets their save then yes martials are better lmfao

[tame estuary]

if turn undead always works on the low CR undeads, you can do so much silly things with it

turn your enemies into zombies lol

[fickle heart]

The part that I think makes 5e specifically subject to so many criticisms of this nature is that it fulfills enough of what people want such that they expect it can fulfill everything they want, whereas many other systems are very directed in what they aim to fulfill.

[humble cairn]

Clerics are a full caster that can swap spells every Long Rest, I don't think they lack in a toolkit.

[crystal latch]

The cleric spell list is among the more limited ones for a fullcaster

[tame estuary]

clerics also have the most subclasses of them all

you want additional spells? yeah it's called pick which

[crystal latch]

Their list also has little overlap with the list of best spells in the game

[coarse ravine]

Thats the same thing as saying if the fighter with 10 attacks can hit all of them. Acting like hes gonna miss all 10

[humble cairn]

It's still got more than enough to be extremely useful.

[coarse ravine]

Yes undead needs to fail their save. Dice are dice agreed

[crystal latch]

He's probably going to hit with 6-7 which we can predict

[crystal latch]

Definitely useful, there's just a world of difference between them and something like wizard or druid

[coarse ravine]

Ill admit this is true

However you are missing one important detail.

No other caster.... can remove stun

Only cleric.

[fickle heart]

Alas, Druid getting Augury and the like was a heavy blow to Clerics.

[coarse ravine]

Well... bard sure with magical secrets

[humble cairn]

A "world" of difference? I feel that's an exaggeration.

[spare nacelle]

I was gonna let this drop but since we are still discussing it

[crystal latch]

A world of difference, absolutely

[tame estuary]

"usefulness" is a whiteroom optimization nonesense

a druid is awesome to play as

[spare nacelle]

Does DnD advertise itself as mundane martials and high fantasy casters? Does it advertise the divide?

[coarse ravine]

Hey druids are my favorite lol. But clerics have a purpose for sure. They are the best healers however you can get away with the second best healers druids just fine

[empty thicket]

Recommended first invocation being a Warlock lvl 1? Shadow armor?

[crystal latch]

Druids are better at healing than clerics

[tame estuary]

pact of the blade

[coarse ravine]

Disquise self at will lol

[crystal latch]

Pact of the Chain

[fickle heart]

Respectfully, these are loaded questions.

[coarse ravine]

With moon sickle you can argue this in hypotheticals

[spare nacelle]

They aren't, it's a simple yes or no

[crystal latch]

Moon sickle doesn't apply to every goodberry so it's basically a ribbon feature-equivalent item

[spare nacelle]

AD&D did, told you Wizard was the strongest at max level right on the tin

[empty thicket]

oh true, i can get pseudodragon and other many useful units

[spare nacelle]

So did 2e iirc

[tame estuary]

@crystal latch I agree with the things you say if that's what you want to hear

[empty thicket]

Mmm.... will go with pact of the blade and in the future might get tome and shadow armor

[torpid hound]

Holy symbol idea: A noose (the religious figure was executed by hanging)

[tame estuary]

tome in 2024? eh I dunno

[spare nacelle]

3e onward, the gap between the power levels of casters and non-casters was not directly advertised. It is something the players (including the DM) discovered during gameplay

[fickle heart]

A loaded question doesn't have anything to do with a yes or no answer. A loaded question presumes something like a controversial assumption, in this case that people will unilaterally agree with the premise of the question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_question

[tame estuary]

tamms you have too much reading comprehension

[crystal latch]

Figuring out which classes are terrible nowadays is just part of ivory tower design

[empty thicket]

that is why the "might" its there, im trying to "disguise" myself like a cleric, going celestial and thinking im a cleric but im not

[humble cairn]

I don't agree that there is a "too much" of reading comprehension.

[tame estuary]

it's a choice? are you playing competitively?

[fickle heart]

I just think the vast majority of D&D discussions would be significantly more constructive if people had a bit more understanding of philosophy as it pertains to communication.

[spare nacelle]

Again, AD&D directly calls it out

[fickle heart]

Absolutely, yes, but this isn't AD&D, so we can't carry that presumption forwards.

[crystal latch]

In the 3e/3.5e days there was some designer commentary about how certain options are made to be bad so you can display system mastery by not taking them

[crimson palm]

Agreed

[tame estuary]

this is wild

[crimson palm]

Source?

[humble cairn]

That's ... awful.

[tame estuary]

I gotta process that, does that carry on to the philosohpy of pathfinder?

[crystal latch]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/fx0ms0/ivorytower_game_design_read_this_quote_from_monte/

[crimson palm]

Thx

[fickle heart]

Yeah, ivory tower design is pretty well discussed and understood.

Considering Monte Cook coined the term, it makes sense.

[crystal latch]

I often wonder if 5e returned to ivory tower design as part of its moving away from what 4e got right
But perhaps it's just a drop in quality rather than a deliberate decision

[crimson palm]

I am a design student, so, it is good thing to know this info.

Specifically because my main focus is likely ending up in the game industry

[humble cairn]

I regards to 5E I've always thought that the Ivory Tower design principle came in to tactics and using features. Like, the fact that Rogues get to Dash on their Bonus Action means that they can Dash twice in a turn, but the game doesn't go out of it's way to point that out, it rewards you for figuring it out yourself.

[fickle heart]

From the PT docs, they aimed for a wide audience (essentially players of every edition) and part of that was assuming that people would cultivate their own form of play, though there is seemingly reluctance in doing so, which I think causes the majority of the problems.

[crystal latch]

They certainly tried to glue bits from various editions together in an often contradictory way

[crimson palm]

Is it like, how several people online tend to bad mouth the ranger class due to lack of understanding it?

[tame estuary]

personal expression is good I think, I think everyone should form an opinion on how they think dnd is supposed to be played and then when playing together you kinda just adapt to make them similar to everyone's

[crystal latch]

Pre-3e editions not having skills as we understand them
3rd and 4th edition having a fully written skill system
5th edition having a list of skills with most having no information on what they do

It's a hybrid attempt at not eating your cake and not having it either

[fickle heart]

Ranger's playstyle is basically incompatible with how people run the game now, yes. I wouldn't say it's lack of understanding as much as the class just not fulfilling what people want from the game now.

[crystal latch]

Ranger is an example of an overwhelming chunk of the playerbase being defeated by the ivory tower, so to speak

[crimson palm]

Yeah, nowadays niche classes lack the reach of more broader options

[spare nacelle]

Regardless of how you feel about the question, the point still stands. The later editions don't "advertise" this divide

[tame estuary]

@spare nacelle I agree with everything you're saying, if that's what you want to hear

[tepid fiber]

can i ask worldbuilding questions here

[spare nacelle]

Therefore, you can't shift the blame for the DM to the Players due to "advertising"

[fickle heart]

I'd agree that they don't advertise it, yeah, though what I think we disagree about is that I don't think the later editions really consider the possibility of a divide very impactful because of said cultivation of play.

[spare nacelle]

Cool story 👍🏾

[tame estuary]

for your club? come to #dm-discussion

[crimson palm]

#dm-world-building

[humble cairn]

We also have the #dm-world-building channel

[tepid fiber]

thanks

[crystal latch]

The 2014 5e ranger excelled at things that do matter in most campaigns (oh no, ribbon features related to exploration are weak, who cares) such as killing monsters, healing, supporting allies and a bit of battlefield control
However, Hunter's Mark blinded an embarrassingly large part of the internet

[crimson palm]

Yeaaah, that is right

[spare nacelle]

I concur, I think we are discussing different things here and that makes it harder for us to reach a consensus

[tame estuary]

2014 hunter's mark was a problem?

[rough basalt]

It was a trap spell like Hex

[crimson palm]

Ye

[rough basalt]

People saw extra damage on targets and long duration and thought it was worth a slot.

[crimson palm]

Zephyr's Strike is far better at this tho

[rough basalt]

Sometimes sure, but not as much as people would use it

[crystal latch]

2014 Hunter's Mark was bad and people thought it was a must-have
So they cast bad spells and complained about the class
Imagine if people thought wizard was bad because they spent all their slots to upcast Burning Hands at their own familiar

[tame estuary]

oh

[rough basalt]

Tbf that familiar was talking crap

[crystal latch]

Every Hunter's Mark cast today is ten fewer goodberries tomorrow

[spare nacelle]

I also think we are avoiding the elephant in the room regarding the system's problems and trying to place them on different scapegoats. But it is what it is

[crimson palm]

Eh?

[tame estuary]

they're not really scapegoats, they're sympthoms

[empty thicket]

kinda, not so good, its at some point zephyr strike a better option just for the free advantage and not opportunity attacks

[crystal latch]

From this I'm pretty sure we can extrapolate that Hunter's Mark is mathematically equivalent to minor self-damage

[crimson palm]

What problems can you tell about?

[tame estuary]

I don't think goodberry is any good, am I a noob or something?

[crystal latch]

I recall Spiritual Weapon being directly compared to (and found to be worse than) upcast 2014 healing word

[fickle heart]

To be clear, I fully recognize and agree that there's a problem if someone really wants to dive into the nitty gritty and push the system to its limit via optimization past a certain point, but I don't agree that the system itself seemingly cares about that and views it as a problem to solve in the first place. Hence, the "problem" is that someone is approaching something with expectations that don't align with the expectations the designers provided as part of making it.

[tame estuary]

I don't think 4 points of healing matters that much, am I missing something?

[crimson palm]

Goodberry saves you on rations

[crystal latch]

Today's spell slot -> 10 hit points of healing tomorrow

[spare nacelle]

No offense but jumping in in media res into this conversation will not allow you to contribute effectively

[rugged hawk]

Mmmm, Goodberries. 😋 I remember well the days of spamming that in BG1 and 2 for free heals....

[empty thicket]

its T.hp and free food. Its comparing with a thing like HM that dont... do too much

[scenic zinc]

While it would be nice for hm to scale, I think that the modern day focus on damage being the end all be all by so many is actually worse.

[humble cairn]

Optimization is only one style of play, after all. Not every table is going to play that way.

[spare nacelle]

Optimization is something every player does. Just the goals differ

[crystal latch]

Goodberry makes it so that every slot you save at the end of the day will increase your party's total hit point pool the next day
This makes it one of the best healing spells in the system

[spare nacelle]

Some optimize for fun and pick options they view as fun, most optimize to make their characters effective and make choices towards that goal with the bets of their knowledge about the system

[crimson palm]

The more social oriented spells have been too overlooked

[tame estuary]

I thought it expires the next day

[frail wasp]

most players don't optimize at all no

[empty thicket]

still 1hp per berry, unless you make a pie with them and eat 4 at one action.

[scenic zinc]

There's so many features the '14 ranger has unrelated to damage or combat that went so severely underappreciated that they were simply removed in '24

[cerulean monolith]

100%. My two biggest pet peeves are “I can’t move over there, I’ll get hit by an attack of opportunity” and “I can’t Study the boss, I’d be missing out on an attack!”

[frail wasp]

most as in, the average player

[humble cairn]

No, categorically no. Beer and pretzel style players do not generally optimize and I've played with enough players who anti-optimize and still had great fun, and thus were doing D&D right.

[crystal latch]

24 hours

[spare nacelle]

Let's agree to disagree

[scenic zinc]

Which I found very sad

[rugged hawk]

Aye. Some optimize for a specific stat or set of high stats. Others optimize for their desired roleplay experience, which may be wildly 'non-meta' and 'sub-obtimal' from a damage perspective.

[fickle heart]

As an addendum, I'm also not intending to invalidate the problems people feel when they optimize and run into huge gulfs in power, but I think it's worthwhile for reflection to occur on if the system is itself the right system for them, as opposed to viewing the system as the problem.

[spare nacelle]

Anti-optimizing is still optimizing because you are choose options that aren't optimal. You are being optimal at not being optimal lmao

[humble cairn]

Which no longer resembles "optimization" as a playstyle at all.

[rugged hawk]

It's still optimization, but the success parameters are defined differently.

[tame estuary]

well what if you're just picking spells because their names sound cool?

[spare nacelle]

Resembling something and being something are different things though

[fickle heart]

I don't intend for this to be a bad-faith question, but would you say that someone criticizing a system like Pathfinder for being crunchy or VtM for being vampire-centric are criticisms the system should actively attempt to address and fulfill as desires?

[lavish flame]

I like it for it being an emergency defribulator in combat

[spare nacelle]

Optimizing for cool names

[feral fulcrum]

And now we're having a Drinking contest with Oberon in a Fey Noblewoman's castle.

[tame estuary]

darn it, got me

[scenic zinc]

Combat may be where many of the mechanics of the system exist, but that's certainly not the entirety of the game. By focusing so much on damage when it comes to "optimization"... that just cheapens the entire experience - for me, at least.

[crystal latch]

I would say that everyone optimizes to a certain extent because any amount of decision-making with the intent of putting yourself in a better spot is optimization
You could be a 2014 standard human melee rogue with all stats dumped and still optimize by targeting an enemy your party needs to take out as a priority, and even if you attack the lowest priority enemy you're still acting closer to optimally than if you targeted your allies etc.

[crimson palm]

Find Famliar being the most well known example

[cerulean monolith]

Goodberry is either near-useless or ridiculously-useful, that’s why I hate it.

[humble cairn]

Ok well when I say optimization I mean what happens over at the #optimization channel, so no, not every table does this. Not every player optimizes, and that's valid, too.

[crystal latch]

I generally find it more useful to define optimization as mid-op and higher

[crimson palm]

Yeah, no kidding

[cerulean monolith]

It is impossible to make survival a challenge if a 1st level spell neutralizes the challenge

[scenic zinc]

If someone honestly criticized vtm for being vampire-centric I don't think I could take that person seriously ever again lol.

[spare nacelle]

That's a false equivalence, the divide is a criticism of the game that aims to be balanced and have classes been mechanically around the same level with the same potential. Pathfinder and VtM let you know right away it's crunchy, it doesn't say or try to be "rules light" or about dogs and cats

[cerulean monolith]

Create Food and Water should be the end of that, period.

[tame estuary]

same could be said about hunter's mark but it's incredibly nieche that it will come up

[humble cairn]

Optimization is a valid play style, but it is one valid play style among many. It is not what everyone does, it is not the only way to play, it is not the best way to play.

[crystal latch]

So in 2014 terms optimization starts when your martials have both a BA attack and a power attack feat

[crimson palm]

The amount of times goodberry savd my pcs was ridiculously infrequent

[cerulean monolith]

What

[rough basalt]

My upcoming campaign, the Ranger doesn't wanna take goodberry.
He wants to brave the scorching deserts surviving off cactus juice and insects

[empty thicket]

like giant attack?

[tame estuary]

knowing the location of your target is really good if they aren't just going to fight to the death

[empty thicket]

Yes, but being the principal thing when you are upcasting....

[crystal latch]

Polearm Master + Great weapon master or Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter

[cerulean monolith]

You know HM does damage, right?

[tame estuary]

yea

[empty thicket]

And being a FEATURE in a class....im kinda comparing to Divine smite of paladin so...one is 1 strong hit, another is constant dps

[rugged hawk]

Ultimately, it's up to the DM whether or not 'Goodberry' or 'Create Food and Water' break the game. Interrupted rest cycles, wild magic, broken concentration, being pushed too far in battle to save a spell slot for casting them, a zone of dead magic, etc.

[cerulean monolith]

Yknow, I really like ranger. It’s a great class. What do you guys think about ranger?

[tame estuary]

I'm so glad that I can talk about rangers openly

[glass granite]

I like it. It’s not bad. Not my favourite.

[rough basalt]

I like it, but it has few subclasses that really wow me.

[crystal latch]

I consider ranger the 7th best class in the game and the best one that wants anything to do with weapons (2014)

[humble cairn]

I am having a blast playing my Ranger.

[empty thicket]

oh... i was about to take crossbow expert because honestly, its suck having to do a whole action to reload, fortunately my Artificer could put repeat shoot in it

[woven flint]

I'm having fun with my Bogeyman ranger atm

[spare nacelle]

I like the Ranger alot, fun concept and class

[tame estuary]

I wanna play that frost walker ranger, we need classes for all elements

[jolly turret]

Hi all. wondering if there is an issue with the webpage version of beyond on ipad? we sat down to play today and the site kept crashing. tried to switch to the app and had some issues there too, even after updating.just curious if there is an issue and if it's known and being worked on. thanks all

[woven flint]

He's a bugbear named Bogey and he's a hitman for the Zhentarim

[empty thicket]

Good class, neat concepts. Some lil features problems but in general find it nice

[cerulean monolith]

And I’m having a blast watching you play him! Though I can’t help but notice similarities between Malzeno and a stingray…

[rugged hawk]

In that case, I demand a necromantic sorc subclass and a water sorc subclass.

[spare nacelle]

Like if they made a subclass for different terrains as opposed to just different planes of existence. I would like that

[humble cairn]

Noooooo! Why!? You stop that!

[fickle heart]

See, the reason I think it's not a false equivalence is for the exact reason that D&D doesn't try to advertise that it's perfectly balanced.

[rugged hawk]

Because that advert would be a blatant lie 👀

[tame estuary]

probably a cleric subclass, sea druid

[fickle heart]

In certain contexts, absolutely, yeah.

[empty thicket]

would be nice that and having the feature of Nature explorer but in those terrains would be nice

its a feature that i dont see bad to have in that class, but is... problematic

[rugged hawk]

Actually, I'd solved it with Divine Soul Sorc and a Helm of Water Breathing. 🤔

[cerulean monolith]

I’ve been saying this in regard to the martial caster divide for ages. Martials are simpler by design.

[lavish flame]

They're awesome. I've had a Ranger in the last 2 games I've been in (Fey Wanderer and Hunter) and they're absurdly cool. When I play alongside Rangers, I often wonder how ppl can think they suck.

[rough basalt]

YouTuber said so

[fickle heart]

I've long held the belief that 5e's greatest strength is its greatest weakness, which is that it's meant to be good enough at everything that people can reach a common ground more easily.

[rugged hawk]

That's only a step above 'reddit said so' 😠

[tame estuary]

I love how super specific nature explorer is, I wish it's just an added bonus. Oh you play bladesinger? You play a fey subclass? yeah you're so much better in the feywilds lol

[spare nacelle]

It also doesn't advertise that other classes are suppose to be weaker and depend on more DM support by default

[scenic zinc]

VtM is anything but crunchy. The Storyteller has a rather extreme amount of say in many mechanics - explicitly so.

[empty thicket]

same, a lil bonus in lot of the skills in an certain window.
Aka, survival, nature, etc. etc. in your terrain

[spare nacelle]

Yeah I forgot to space out the crunchy with PF and VtM with something else

[fickle heart]

This seems again like a presumption and increasingly less related to actual game design and more related to marketing.

[rough basalt]

That's when I bring out my counterargument.
"My mom said Rangers good"

[spare nacelle]

It's not a presumption, it is the actual game design

[fickle heart]

Do you have a neutral source for this?

[empty thicket]

Welp... if it isnt for DM giving magic weapons, many martial classes get behind at some point...

[tame estuary]

but the game design assumes you also provide your additional input to the game no?

[spare nacelle]

Define "neutral" in this context

[cerulean monolith]

It also doesn’t advertise that spellcasters have a progression where they unlock a new level of spell every 2 levels. Not everything needs to be stated

[fickle heart]

A source that doesn't presume any sort of specific engagement with the game.

[rugged hawk]

Damn, I can't rebuttal this counterargument without getting nuked. 😢

[cerulean monolith]

Not WotC, a WotC affiliate, or anybody with a vested interest, either positive or negative, in the game

[spare nacelle]

That's tricky, to understand this concept about the game you need a high amount of engagement with the game

[fickle heart]

See, I would envision that as bias.

[spare nacelle]

Bias towards and for either point

Or against

[fickle heart]

Bingo. It's essentially saying "if you play the game and agree with me, the game has these qualities."

[spare nacelle]

But I'm speaking on actual qualities and instances in the game

[scenic zinc]

VtM and daggerheart are similar in that they're narrative-first games, though dh has many more combat related rules than VtM.

D&D has a general trend of not being narrative-first, even if that's what some people would prefer. Many people, instead, take the mechanics of the system and then derive a narrative from that.

[fickle heart]

You are speaking on qualities that arise from your own engagement, from how I see it.

[tame estuary]

spot on

[cerulean monolith]

There’s a negative term for excluding people who aren’t “experienced enough” with a hobby, but it doesn’t come to mind.

[spare nacelle]

When I say "the best x options are spells" that's not bias. That's a direct observation about the mechanics of the game

[woven flint]

Gatekeeping?

[scenic zinc]

It is biased though. Because you've predefined what 'best' means.

[tame estuary]

I should add that to my lfg questions, "do you play narrative first and supplement that with mechanics or do you play the mechanics first then pull understandment of the narrative after"

obviously I need to workshop it

[spare nacelle]

What I defined it isn't just my definition, it's partly the observations from the developers

[empty thicket]

And settle na example of it too

[tame estuary]

oh yeaa

[fickle heart]

I take developer citations as unbiased, so I'm down for those.

[scenic zinc]

You're defining best in a way that achieves what you see as the 'goal' of the game.

Not everyone plays the same way you do or wants the same things out of playing that you do.

[empty thicket]

Like, idk, oh look, your fighter doing his training learned how to use polearms better and now he got the "Polearm master" feat

[tame estuary]

woah

[cerulean monolith]

Wouldn’t developers commenting on a state of the game just be proof that the state is intentional?

[empty thicket]

"Yeah, we hate ranger like we hate poisons, so we are going to gut him, cut his speed to 0 and their Hp dice to 1d4" would be something so funny to read

[spare nacelle]

Which leads to my point that the divide is a result of the system the developers created

[cerulean monolith]

Okay? And? What’s the problem

It’s their game, we’re just playing it.

[spare nacelle]

The problem is that I'm saying the divide is a result of the system and others are saying it's a result of the players

[scenic zinc]

In my opinion, it's "our" game. They just make it.

[spare nacelle]

We as players can change and shape the rules of the game to adjust this, but that doesn't eliminate the problem that exist within the game

[cerulean monolith]

Problem for who? It’s not an error. It is intentional design.

[scenic zinc]

To be clear, you're talking about the divide between martials and casters yes?

[spare nacelle]

Problem for players who fall behind caster allies and don't get as much enjoyment from the game

[empty thicket]

True, but they are still humans, mistakes can be made and that its why some stuff is changed through time.

[spare nacelle]

Hence why DMs are encouraged by other players to give them magic items and such

[scenic zinc]

The biggest reason for that widening divide is on the players. Not the designers.

[spare nacelle]

Not the widening divide, the divide itself

[cerulean monolith]

If they don’t enjoy playing a martial in D&D, then it’s on them to stop. Play not a martial or play a different system. It is not the responsibility of the system to accommodate everyone

[tame estuary]

DM problem

[spare nacelle]

Yes there are things I can do to make it smaller, but there is an inherent gap in power because the two groups

[spare nacelle]

System Problem

[scenic zinc]

People doing "cool things" or being relaxed on the rules for spellcasters or not doing the recommended adventuring day, etc. - that's all players and dm's.

[tame estuary]

system says give them cool magic weapons that gives them spells

[scenic zinc]

The system as it is doesn't have that large of a divide inherently.

[worn lagoon]

You're tiring yourself out here, guisarme

You'll have nothing but a headache at the end of this

[spare nacelle]

I am I knew I shouldn't have returned lmao

[scenic zinc]

It's in how it's put into practice.

[cerulean monolith]

Again, it is not the system’s responsibility to be perfect for everybody. The system sets out to have a divide, and it does. If someone does not like that, then they should play a different system, or play something that puts them on the other side of the divide.

[fickle heart]

My view is a bit more complex than that. I think it's multifaceted, in the sense that one cannot fulfill the broad desires that the playerbase has without actually resulting in a sort of divide. "Fixing the divide" also causes problems, which I think is severely misunderstood and minimized, and there's ripple effects of doing so that are hard to predict unless you actually try to cultivate a specific audience, which 5e doesn't want to do.

[spare nacelle]

I agree with this! Exactly my point

[limber trail]

I think "the divide" is a bit of an illusion. It exists most of all in white room scenarios, but through actual gameplay is evens out. There are ways that DMs can design their games to lessen that divide, just like there are ways that DMs can design their games to decrease the gap in power between ranger and other classes.

[cerulean monolith]

This is like showing up to a hotel and booking a balcony room, then calling the balcony a problem of the hotel when you don’t like it. Book a different room or stay at another hotel.

[tame estuary]

it's kind of disingenous when you say there's a system problem and the solution is to fix it yourself to make it better for you, like that's just what the game advertises already? is that not what people coming into dnd want to play like?

[spare nacelle]

Kind of but not quite

[frail wasp]

The problem with balconies is the building designer didn't make the safety rails tall enough, so you cant lean furniture on them

[spare nacelle]

Anyway guys, it was nice discussing this with you guys. I'm gonna take a break. I think my point is made. Take it easy guys

[knotty vine]

I’m tweaking out

[scenic zinc]

In translation: 5e isn't the end all be all system. Different systems should be used when they're the better system for the game you're trying to play.

[crystal latch]

I have always argued that the divide is massively bigger than it is made out to be

[fickle heart]

In other words, the divide is a consequence of making spellcasting feel fun and intuitive in the vast majority of games, not based on the intention of actually making the divide itself exist.

[cerulean monolith]

Who’s leaning furniture on balconies? We might be planting in the wrong field here

[tame estuary]

the divide comes from the DM liking the caster player more

had a DM that lets the cleric does anything they want lol

[crystal latch]

5e's martial-caster disparity is close to the same order of magnitude as it was in 3.5 between Tier 1-2 casters and Tier 5 martials

[frail wasp]

I'm pretty sure everyone optimi-- uh I mean, leans furniture on balconies, how else are you getting comfortable with a good view

[tame estuary]

sometimes I wish there's consequences needed to perform your magic though

[frail wasp]

the hotel manager should have put more effort into their hotel

[scenic zinc]

There doesn't need to be a defined mechanic for everything.

[tame estuary]

like a druid needs a monthly or yearly sabbatical in their nature, warlocks are obvious, clerics need to actually follow what they set out to be

[scenic zinc]

The book is a starting place.

[empty thicket]

mmm....look, casters get their upgrades through spells. While martials need an object, aka, Weapons//armor to minimum improve, if a fighter cant kinda keep up with his caster team, either he is doing the most wrong decisions possible, the team dont buff him or the dm isnt dropping any weapon//armor//item that help him

[tame estuary]

I suppose dnd leans more towards magic is everywhere setting tho

[worn lagoon]

what's up

[empty thicket]

the only martial that dont follow that rule is Monk because monk is literally like that

[crystal latch]

The gap is big enough that you can make dungeons for an all-caster party that would TPK martial-heavy parties regardless of how optimized those martials are while still needing to make the encounters harder in order to pose a serious threat to the casters

[past needle]

Does anyone know of spreadsheet that includes all Wizard spells, previous editions included?

[fickle heart]

From my own perspective in doing design (both working on a 5e redesign as a passion project) and just my job, the situations I care least about are the situations in which case someone attempts to go against the entire purpose of my design. That's where it's a "YMMV, because I can't truly hold your hand for you."

[empty thicket]

Indeed, the only way a Martial group (Barb, fighter, monk and rogue) win against a caster group (Druid, wizard, cleric and sorc) is the monk and rogue winning the initiative and literally killing 1 or 2 instantly

[cerulean monolith]

…where’s da source?

[empty thicket]

Both sides have tools for win against each other, but martials need items to balance the fight.

[cerulean monolith]

…@fickle heart? anything like that in your stockpiles?

[fickle heart]

I only got 5e currently, alas.

[cerulean monolith]

Darn

[fickle heart]

I should add 2e at least, though.

[past needle]

Appreciate the attempt!

[tame estuary]

balancing fights is so hard tho, I still don't get it

I'm now in the mindset that combat is just supposed to be easy to make it easier on my sanity

[eternal stump]

hey can i post a kinda long story here from a session that just hapened looking for advice if i was too quick to leave

[crystal latch]

Source for what?

[tame estuary]

yeah go ahead

[cerulean monolith]

Cliffsnotes us

[cerulean monolith]

For the absurd (to me) claim you made?

[eternal stump]

so i just got done with a session and i'm considering leaving the campaign as the result of a single player. lets call them t. this campaign has been going on for several months now and t and 3 others all joined later than I did. (we had some players at the beginning but left due to life and such.) the campaign is in 2014 5e. I was given approval to run the circle of dragons druid from griffon's saddlebag 2. t is playing a druid with homebrew changes and powers also granted by the dm but play a more support role in combat. recently as i worked hard to get an extra feat (rune carver) i gained access to the spell armor of agathys. I asked the dm ahead of time if I could use the 2024 version as it would work well with the druid subclass I had chosen. The subclass I picked works as follows: when I wildshape i can choose to take on my draconic form. if I do i gain temp hp equal to my max hp.

so in combat today we fought against some homebrew wolves which hit like a truck and had multi-attack. 3 of them hit me for over 110 damage total accross 5 attacks. the new armor of agathys (cast at 4th level as again we are 8) did 20 damage per hit to me. so my first turn folks looked like this: bonus action cast aoa at 4th level, action wild shape into the dragon. pass. t claimed that aoa did "too much" and "needed a nerf like costing my reaction or concentration." T then proceeded to bring this up mid combat and again while on the discord call as we wrapped up. I won't like things got a bit heated but no names were called or insults thrown and I just noped out of the server and closed the dm's of everyone.

after i left the dm reached out and asked if i would be willing to come back and i said if t came to me and said they wanted me back and apologized. t then did proceed to dm me and then say sorry you feel that way being totally dismissive. so much so that even when i pointed out that the wizard casting fireball could do just as much if not more with fewer resources they blew off the comment. so this standard of "you do too much at level" is reserved for me and me alone. they saw the resources and the weaknesses I clearly spelled out to them and they STILL claimed i was too much. so I need to ask is this too much or was i okay for having aoa on my druid because I've worked in rp and out of session text based rp to gain that spell to make it so that despite my measly 16 ac and base of 1d12+6 and 2d6+6 damage I could keep up a bit with the other melee fighters.

for context the wording of aoa:
Source: Player's Handbook

Level 1 Abjuration (Warlock)

Casting Time: Bonus Action
Range: Self
Components: V, S, M (a shard of blue glass)
Duration: 1 Hour

Protective magical frost surrounds you. You gain 5 Temporary Hit Points. If a creature hits you with a melee attack roll before the spell ends, the creature takes 5 Cold damage. The spell ends early if you have no Temporary Hit Points.

Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. The Temporary Hit Points and the Cold damage both increase by 5 for each spell slot level above 1.

for context on my hp situation i took the tough feat and have the necklace that sets your con to 19. so my hp is 91 at max.

[idle oar]

Trust your gut is my suggestion. If something feels off/not-right, better safe than sorry.

[worn lagoon]

it's not exactly an absurd claim

[tame estuary]

what tone did t say that in? as in serious as in asking the DM that it needs to be nerfed?

[empty thicket]

yep, test stuff slowly if you are building stuff. Dont have problem to some moment throw a challenging enemy too

[worn lagoon]

you were absolutely right to leave, armor of agathys isn't even that strong an use for a whole lv4 spell slot so that's just an outrageous claim

[tame estuary]

sometimes people just can't shut their mouth and just say things because they're within their friend group and they can say those things

[eternal stump]

incredulous that i did a total of 100 damage at the cost of 91 thp, a 4th lv spell, and my wild shape

[worn lagoon]

I like armor of agathys if there's going to be a prayer of healing inbetween that and the next instance of combat

[eternal stump]

yes they were serious that it needed to be nerfed

[limber trail]

I think in one style of campaign is can be super wide which is a lower stakes and more player driven game, where players have the ability to set the pace of sessions. In those types of games layers have tons of tools - not engaging with narrative elements if they're low on resources, immediately long resting after a fight. It makes logical sense so I get why players do it, and on some level there's a couple books which don't really push players to be efficient or fast with their actions, which leads to a lot of stagnancy. This means that players can usually rely on having their full kit for any given fight, which means spellcasters can go nova and drop all of their big spells without being punished for it.

Games which have more of that tension and force more out of their players (more encounters in a day, for example) have way less of that divide. I ran an adventuring day for my players. In it, they started off travelling in a mountain range, and their first encounter as level 5 players was up against a White Dragon of roughly CR 9ish. Already a tough encounter for them. Then, they happened upon a dwarvern ruined city. They had a lot of time pressure on them but thought they could find something helpful. So, they chose to delve into the city on the same adventuring day, not wanting to lose another day. They went through a few ability checks, burning resources, and got into a fight with some Demons. they finished this fight, were basically out of combat, and ran for the hills, taking out a couple of enemies on the way. By the end of this day, the players were pretty well tapped out of resources.

At the end of that adventuring day, the standouts weren't the casters. They got big moments but the ones winning the day were the martials who were able to keep going well past the caster's limits. I ran a level 16 three-shot not long ago and had a similar experience - by the end, casters weren't even remotely competing with the martials for power.

[limber trail]

power word wall of text :( upcast to 9th level :(

[tame estuary]

then it's good that you left, that DM really likes that player and would've probably hear t out

[crystal latch]

Caster durability is that much higher, what threatens casters outright kills martials (hordes of trash mobs to force a Shield spell because the sheer weight of dice overwhelms your armordipped 19 AC otherwise)
The higher the complexity of an encounter - i.e. the more "just hit the things until they die" will not suffice to solve without dying - the less martials are able to contribute at all, and their presence becomes a burden in that 20/25/33% of your side's action economy feels like and is dead weight. Think enemies that can effectively screw over targets within their line of sight so you need to Fog Cloud or you're doomed, that kind of stuff.

Most of the best spells are more or less I-Win buttons with the entire difficulty of a dungeon coming from not knowing how many encounters you have left and trying to minimize slot costs in case you have 20 more encounters. It's like a ton of locks requiring once-per-day keys to open, classes with fewer or no keys will struggle or just fail completely.

[eternal stump]

t brought it up mid combat to be nerfed, post game to be nerfed and in dm's when i left to be nerfed

[tame estuary]

t is dead set on not letting anyone else deal damage

[eternal stump]

they're also a druid...a support druid

[fickle heart]

I do think poorly-made dungeons do unfortunately contribute to a lot of casters being overwhelming in practice.

[tame estuary]

I've had an entire campaign fail because the players kept rolling nat 1s 4 turns in a row, combat was so slow because of it

that's the moment I just stop thinking, eh let them blast if it kills it kills, let them use all their resource, resource management game is for people above me

[fickle heart]

DEX and STR are very much stats that are devalued from "walk here, kill this thing" as opposed to more traditional dungeons.

[frail wasp]

i.e level design is hard

[fickle heart]

It do be that way, yeah.

[crystal latch]

I kept records of all the dungeons and stuff in my party's Eve of Ruin game where our DM massively raised the difficulty level of all encounters and added more content besides the main plot points.

[lavish flame]

how do you mean? I've found D&D5e adventure dungeons to be lacking, but why do you feel they can encourage Casters to run away with the bank?

[limber trail]

I do think a lot of DMs should consider some research into game & level design on their off time. Just a passing bit of research can elevate their games - fundamentally a GM is a game designer, you're designing your campaign.

[tame estuary]

level design is hard, encounter balancing is hard, looks like the only easy thing is to make up voices for bobblin the goblin, no wonder the players focus on that

[brave pebble]

world building is also hard

[limber trail]

also true

[frail wasp]

to make a good game, you must first make a good game

[brave pebble]

brutal

[tall forge]

And to first make a good game, you must first make a game

but imo i dunno how relevant ive found game and level design to be

[frail wasp]

well, a bad game to be specific

[fickle heart]

Well, the low-hanging fruit is that STR and DEX are heavily minimized in a lot of 5e dungeons, when in reality STR and DEX are both huge in historical dungeon design for things such as moving obstacles, traps, stealth, and other engaging with terrain.

[frail wasp]

level design is paramount in DND, just as much as any video game

[empty thicket]

yeah but that is mostly bad luck, really bad luck.
i will put a rule when i do my DMing
If someone miss 3 actions, aka, 3 attack actions in 3 turns or 3 spells, next spell//attack land like a normal one. Because i Got that moments and ngl, feel awful.
I will call it "plot help" honestly.

Oh and if someone get 2 nat1 in the row, the third thing he do is applied the "plot help"

[frail wasp]

game design less so, because it's super easy to change things mid design when your entire game is on paper

[crystal latch]

First dungeon my party cleared in Eve of Ruin, encounters in order. Maps as in the RAW module, this is both dungeons in the chapter 1 adventuring day. We took... one short rest?
Party was ranger, warlock and two wizards, level 10

Encounter – Phylaskia CR 9, 11x Karnathi Undead Soldier CR 3, Dullahan CR 10
Original module encounter – 5x Wight CR 3

Encounter – 2x Giant Undead Shark CR 5, 2x Karnathi Undead Soldier CR 3
Default encounter – 2x Water Weird CR 3, Water Elemental CR 5

Encounter – Skeleton Knight CR 7, 2x Necromancer CR 9, 2x Mage CR 6, Evoker CR 9
Default encounter – 3x Mage CR 6, 4x Cult Fanatic CR 2

Encounter – 2x Skeleton Knight CR 7, 4x Mage CR 6, Glabrezu CR 8
Default encounter – 2x Ghoul CR 1, 4x Cult Fanatic CR 2

Encounter – 2x Oracula CR 10 from Book of Beautiful Horrors
Default encounter – 2x Wraith CR 5

Encounter – Archmage CR12, 2x Skeletal Knight CR7, 6x Mage CR 6, 9x Mind Flayer Nothic CR 2, Grim Champion of Pestilence CR 15, Glabrezu CR 7
Default encounter – Mage CR 6, 5x Nothic CR 2

Encounter – 4x Nosferatu CR8, 2x Jiangshi CR9
Default encounter – 12x Ghoul CR1
Tbf we skipped this one diplomatically

Encounter – 4x Umbral Vampire from Kobold Press
Default encounter – 4x Vampire Spawn CR 5
Skipped with dimension door

Encounter – 6x Lost Sorrowsworn CR 7, 18x Wretched Sorrowsworn CR ¼, 6x Lonely Sorrowsworn CR 9, 3x Hungry Sorrowsworn CR 11
Default encounter – Ghost CR 4 (friendly), 2x Lost Sorrowsworn CR 7

Encounter – 6 Wretched Sorrowsworn CR ¼, 2 Hungry Sorrowsworn CR 11, 3 Lost Sorrowsworn CR 9
Default encounter – Lost Sorrowsworn CR 9

[brave pebble]

tomb of horrors...

[empty thicket]

Holy wall of text

[frail wasp]

and the hardware limitations of your game are human brain

[feral fulcrum]

Wall of Text has been cast so often tonight.

[fickle heart]

By my dungeon metrics, if casters are only using slots in combat, the dungeon design has failed pretty fundamentally.

[worn lagoon]

it is my favorite terraria boss so i'm fine with it

[tame estuary]

does anyone actually enjoy hard fights actually?

[feral fulcrum]

I do

[frail wasp]

it's one of the 8 forms of fun

[worn lagoon]

i LOVE HARD FIGHTS!

[crystal latch]

I like difficult encounters, ideally 50+ times the 5e deadly threshold

[tame estuary]

isn't the point of wanting to be really strong in the game is so that you feel badass?

[brave pebble]

theres different types of hard fights tho

[feral fulcrum]

And you can both be Really Strong and struggle in a hard fight

[worn lagoon]

overcoming really hard fights with minimal or no loss is extremely badass

[empty thicket]

Yes. I love the challenge, brosky, i come from games like Darkest dungeon and F&H. A Mistake and you are ended but i enjoy that "challenge"

[feral fulcrum]

They're not mutually exclusive. Punching the equivalant of a baby in a D&D Fight doesn't make me feel Strong.

[empty thicket]

A harder fight mean a better feeling of winning

[limber trail]

Game Design also isn't rigid. In fact, one technique a lot of games use at the early early start of their design is sometimes making prototypes using paper and other physical materials. A lot of early development of games is very intentionally designed to be flexible and to change over time. Much like how a lot of design for TTRPGs is flexible and changes over time. They're not the same but there is always Game Design in a ttrpg.

[brave pebble]

or while cheesing the encounter and making your dm suffer

[worn lagoon]

I hate low level dnd because things die when I throw a fire bolt at them

[tame estuary]

I've come to a realization with my dnd friends who plays dark soul

[limber trail]

I do not think that's always true. I think fun challenging fights feel utterly amazing, but I've played my fair share of fights that are just hard without being fun

[fickle heart]

Spicy Take: 5e would do better with dungeon design if it had more intentional instant-death being possible from various sources.

[tame estuary]

I don't want that so...

[fickle heart]

This often has a side-effect of forcing lesser-used spells to be used, for context.

[empty thicket]

Depend too of each person and situation.

[empty thicket]

I would like martials have a way to instant kill unities. At least classes like Rogue or some others but few rare powerful ones.

[brave pebble]

i just want dungeon turns back

[empty thicket]

Casters can literally PWK or disintegrate stuff or other many tools

[frail wasp]

level design isn't about killing the characters :X

[fickle heart]

Dungeon turns would also do WONDERS.

[brave pebble]

sometimes it is tho

[frail wasp]

um ok

[fickle heart]

5e's dungeonplay is pretty horrendous, all things considered.

[empty thicket]

True, but that depend of what kind of level we are speaking.
A dungeon where there is juicy loot, i expect some dangers from traps//monsters.

[crystal latch]

Towards the middle/end of that Eve of Ruin game, our DM was looking for anything that could even remotely threaten our party
At some point, after multiple massacred kaiju and waves of comically large encounters, it became evident that this was a lost cause

[tame estuary]

begs the question, is playing the game to the point where you stretch the feasible difficulty fun?

[frail wasp]

killing characters is easy ... not killing them but making them think you're killing them, that's the hard part

[fickle heart]

Rogues benefit tremendously (well, indirectly) from increased lethality of dungeons, as do martials with STR when terrain is more of a problem.

[crystal latch]

We ended up fighting the final dungeon with an x10 multiplier to the number of enemies and a homebrew BBEG who was a god with 30 levels of both sorc and wizard because why not

[faint thicket]

Yesn't

[crystal latch]

Nvm cleric and wizard

[frail wasp]

but lethality of level isn't what makes a level quality

[fickle heart]

Aye, but lethality doesn't necessarily mean "lethal always", and can just mean "lethal if you try to skirt around reasonable solutions".

[faint thicket]

it depends on the context

[past needle]

@fickle heart Mind if I ask a few questions in DM?

[fickle heart]

If you introduce dungeon turns, Rogues suddenly become vastly more powerful in dungeons, because traps (something that generally goes along with dungeon turns) are a huge problem that you can't just sluggishly solve without getting snuck up on.

The same is with terrain that's difficult to pass, as lacking STR means you again can get snuck up on by how long it takes.

[brave pebble]

and suddenly the dungeons feel like dungeons again

[empty thicket]

or sacrificing familiars

[fickle heart]

Of course, you can solve those problems with spells like Knock and the like, but that also has downsides (like how Knock is ridiculously loud).

[frail wasp]

huzzah

[fickle heart]

Your group might need to actually toss a party member across a gap because the party member can't clear the gap themselves without using precious resources.

But is it worth the potential complications of the party member falling to their death or maybe even dragging someone down with them if you correctly tie a rope around them?

[fickle heart]

Depends what about

[past needle]

Well, as you were asked about the spell list, you must have some organization skills. Have a few format questions and was trying to not clog main chat

[fickle heart]

Oh, I'm down for that.

I think the game will never really move past casters being able to spiral out of control when truly desired as long as casters have freedom towards combat spells based on a lack of system pressure to use noncombat spells for dungeon problems that martials can otherwise solve maybe slightly less efficiently but without any resource or opportunity cost.

That's coincidentally very similar as to why I'm not a huge fan of flight being baked-in to early options.

[rough basalt]

Bottomless pit trap with a enemy mage who casts earthbind on a flying pc trying to cross

[limber trail]

oh that's evil I'm stealing this

[frail wasp]

bottomless pits, in this economy?

[jolly agate]

I wonder how dungeons just appear

[frail wasp]

each dungeon has its own special origin story

[jolly agate]

i mean, Is there a dungeon-building company anywhere? Or do they just appear in the world?

[frail wasp]

there is no universal source of dungeon

[rough basalt]

There's a random dungeon generator God /j

[frail wasp]

some are repurposed vaults, some are created by dungeon critters as a home, and some are caused by intersecting planar tectonics, and some...

[feral fulcrum]

Some are actively maintained and advertised by Liches who uses your stupid greedy soul to fuel his Phylactery and fuel the local adventure economy.

[rough basalt]

My favorite part of making Dungeons is making the treasure have some lorebits sometimes

Like a corpse on a treasure chest with stuff inside was the corpses stuff but he got gravely injured and couldn't move so "hey take care of my stuff, and me please"

[feral fulcrum]

That's not a joke by the way, that's an actual Adventure thing.

"I, Acererak the Eternal, beckon you to your doom. Come foolish ones, plunder my treasures, if you dare! Others have tried. All have failed! From your skin, tapestries shall be woven, and your bones will carpet my tomb. Only I am beyond death's reach. Only I know the secret to true immortality! " - Guy legit advertises the place.

[worn lagoon]

good ol tomb of horrors

[rough basalt]

Doesn't he personally put the flyers up himself too

[frail wasp]

he has lich underlings for that

[rough basalt]

It is hilarious tho that not only does he advertise it, but it works

People will think they're built different then become his next souls to eat

[cerulean monolith]

The third party Loot Tavern book has a clan of goblins that are contractors who build lairs for creatures. They’re the ones building all the dungeons

[worn lagoon]

I wonder what gave him the idea to put|| an instant transition room in there||

Whoops, I guess that's a spoiler

[jolly agate]

No bloody way I was right

also, cool Skyrim pfp

[tough kayak]

hai, im new to dnd. I was looking for a text campaign to help me get started and wondering if anyone could help show me where i find that?

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[still plover]

Search for text games, play by post or PbP. Alternatively Roll20 has a filter for text games in the search.

[tough kayak]

thank you

will the be in the looking-for-players channel?

[idle oar]

Yeah somtimes there are Play By Post games posted in the LFG channels

[tough kayak]

thank you!!!

[gilded crane]

Is there something up with the D&D Beyond website? Its crazy slow, maps isn't showing dice rolls, etc etc

[cold violet]

Hey, does anybody have tips for a new dm? I have a world set up and I’ve played for about 6 months, but it’s my first time dming. So anything would be appreciated!

[quaint hound]

you arent using a premade one?

[cold violet]

Nope 👎

[quaint hound]

i see, you kinda threw yourself in the deep end, how fast can you improvise?

[cold violet]

I’d say pretty well, but I have a lot of the world cooked up already

[weak lava]

Gl bro🙏

[cold violet]

Am I really that cooked

[quaint hound]

nah

[weak lava]

Just remember that they will do what you don't want them to do.

If you tell them not to do something, they WILL do it.

[quaint hound]

and that you shouldnt over prepare

[cold violet]

I just have the big hooks like the cities, villains, important npcs, etc I’m trying to let them do their own thing yk?

[weak lava]

The fun is in the improv.

[quaint hound]

nice

[weak lava]

Nice, more preparation than most of us.

[cold violet]

I’m doing some “light” homebrew to, lowkey not sure how bad it’s going to be

[quaint hound]

OH prioritize some but not too much loot

[weak lava]

What's everyone's favourite non combat item?

[quaint hound]

Bag of holding to hold monster parts

[cold violet]

Fs bag of holding

[glass granite]

Cape of billowing

[quaint hound]

we serious 😭

[glass granite]

Absolutely

[cold violet]

One time our dm let us fill one with a bunch of Eldridge blasts and fire bolts

[glass granite]

It’s favourite not best, after all.

[weak lava]

Best you can do is fill it with water and then cast shape water to make a 600 pound water block above your BBEG

[quaint hound]

okay piccolo

[potent mountain]

guys, what IS a pugilist?

[glass granite]

It’s a third party class

Based around unarmed combat
That’s just about all I know

[quaint hound]

Monk + fighter right?

[worn lagoon]

it's basically monk with terrible ac

[still plover]

A boxer or fist-fighter.

[jolly agate]

Now that i think abt it, Bard scales only whit char right?

[glass granite]

Mhm

[jolly agate]

Or is it possible to make a bard build whit int?

[glass granite]

Same with every other full caster, they scale only with their spellcasting mod

[jolly agate]

dammit. My hybrid Artificer bard is too cool to exist

[worn lagoon]

simply roll very high on stats

[olive wyvern]

Hello there! I’m new to this server 😌

[jolly agate]

Wait, i still think it might work

[rugged hawk]

🤔 Uh huh. See, I hear what you're saying, but it doesn't seem to match what I'm seeing in your name tag.

[glass granite]

Hi new to this server, I’m Nugget! I recommend looking at the #channel-guide .
Overall, welcome, we’re only slightly deranged.

[olive wyvern]

My name tag? It’s says new to DandD

[glass granite]

Is a dad joke.
Your name tag isn’t “new to this server” lol

[rugged hawk]

Also, welcome to the circus, we love discussing alignments. 👀

[olive wyvern]

Oh? That just went over my head 😂

[glass granite]

It was mildly obscure

[rugged hawk]

You know what's not obscure, though? How awesome Princes of the Apocalypse campaign is.

[olive wyvern]

I’m trying to find out how I can join a D and D game

[glass granite]

Check out #find-a-game to join a dnd game via this server. It should have the info you need

[olive wyvern]

Thank you!

[glass granite]

Else try reddit, dnd beyond forums, local games stores and libraries

[hushed mason]

Also Roll20 listings.

[rugged hawk]

I don't wanna deal with other people, so I just DM for myself 🤔

[glass granite]

This too.

[olive wyvern]

Huh?

[hushed mason]

Visit roll20 and choose "join a game". It allows you to search for games that are accepting new players.

Roll20 is an online virtual table top (VTT).

[olive wyvern]

Oh..okay

[rugged hawk]

I rolled 20 once. Then I got an eyeful of an ogre and giantess. 😭 I have never been so sad to roll high.

[olive wyvern]

How do you do that?

[hushed mason]

You type "roll20" into Google and click a link

[rugged hawk]

You gotta click the right link, though, that's important. 🤔

[hushed mason]

Well, yes. https://roll20.net/welcome --> it's under "play".

[cobalt owl]

It's rare to see a dnd session run the length that the DM predicted, but I successfully did it today

Congratulations me

[rugged hawk]

Once is good. Two is better. Finishing the campaign is best. Finish the fight, spiderman!

[olive wyvern]

I still don’t understand. I’m sorry

[hushed mason]

That's okay. There are other ways to find games.

[shrewd pebble]

Hey yall

[olive wyvern]

I have an app called Everbrite. Is that kind of like D and D

[shrewd pebble]

If yall could have any 5 cantrips what are yall pickin

[cobalt owl]

In real life?

[shrewd pebble]

Ye

[hushed mason]

Mending, Prestidigitation, Create Water, Cure Minor Wounds, and Ghost Sound. (3.5)

[still plover]

Never heard of it.

What application do you use to browse the Internet? Chrome, Edge, Firefox, Opera, Safari?

[shrewd pebble]

Oooo thats tuff

[olive wyvern]

I use Chrome

[shrewd pebble]

U had that shit on lock down

Opera is better brotato

[tame estuary]

off track

[cobalt owl]

Mage hand
Presti
Goodberry
Mending
Shape Water

[still plover]

So if you go to: https://roll20.net/welcome you could sign up for a free account, and start searching for games.

Are you new to D&D?

[tame estuary]

the first question is if you're looking for online games or in-person games

[olive wyvern]

Yes I am very new to D and D

[tame estuary]

dnd is fine

[still plover]

Try having a read through the first couple of sections of the Free Rules to get a grasp of the terminology, then have a go at putting a character together for practice.

You'll need to pick a class, species and background. Let us know if you have any questions!

[tame estuary]

ok, so are you living in some sort of metro area?

lots of people, predominantly speaking english?

[olive wyvern]

So wait…I thought in this server is kind of like an rp for D and D

[sour cave]

Very important question. Do your firbolgs have animal traits or not?

[tame estuary]

it's sort of a hub to talk about the game

[olive wyvern]

Online

[sour cave]

Can’t decide if I like regular forest giant, or cow/sheep forest giant

[tame estuary]

you can look on reddit

[olive wyvern]

Sorry for the confusion

[tame estuary]

or scroll through #looking-for-players

I like looking on reddit most

[proven nova]

Question: What kind of class/subclass would fit a plant-based knight?

[verbal garnet]

Druid maybe?

It could be muticlassed with paladin

[proven nova]

That can work?

[verbal garnet]

I mean you can multiclass with anything if you put your heart into it

[humble cairn]

Ancients Paladin would fit.

They're often called Green Knights.

[proven nova]

Is 2014 or 2024 the better version for it?

I ask because I know one has damage resistance to magic while the other gives resistance to some damage types from all types of sources.

[worn lagoon]

Ranger of any kind, ancients paladin

[proven nova]

I also remember that it’s Channel Divinity was kind of meh

[proven nova]

Any particular ranger?

Maybe Horizon Walker?

[worn lagoon]

All of them have druidic plant spells that fit the baseline

[proven nova]

Is Ranger itself even that good though?

[worn lagoon]

Well, it's a half-caster with several good key spells. That already puts it above barbarian and rogue.

[tame estuary]

"is it good" "is it viable" irrelevant questions, do. you. want. it?

[proven nova]

Well, I do not know

I have never played a Ranger.

[worn lagoon]

Its baseline damage in 24 is higher than 14 but its ceiling is much lower due to the power feat nerfs

But spellcastingwise it's mostly the same, and spike growth is goated

[tame estuary]

if I ever play ranger I'll probably forget that I have spells

[worn lagoon]

Conjure barrage is basically a better fireball

[proven nova]

Which?

[feral quartz]

Hi wsp I'm new to d and d

[jolly agate]

Fireball is already better fireball

cuz fireball>>>everything

[serene jolt]

Ooh Conjure Barrage is super cool! I haven't seen that one in action yet but I have a level 5 Ranger so I'm sure I will eventually. XD

[proven nova]

Horizon Walker seems fun

[prisma blade]

anyone have any childhood games they think would be a great dnd campaign

tryna get back into dming but I'm too lazy to be completly organic

[olive wyvern]

Can anyone explain to me what D snd D is please?

[hushed mason]

It's a table-top role play game.

[prisma blade]

dungeon and dragon

[olive wyvern]

I understand that part but what game is it

[prisma blade]

you're a character in a novel

[fossil hollow]

Its Dungeon and Dragons

thats the game

[prisma blade]

make decisions, grow stronger, be whatever you want to be

[fossil hollow]

might i also reccomend checking out #dnd-newcomers

[hushed mason]

The specific story is whichever one that Dungeon Master chooses to run. It might be a published adventure or a made-up one.

[olive wyvern]

So,is this server kind of like roleplaying Dungeons and Dragons or no? Guess what I’m trying to ask is that does this server have an rp chat feature?

[fossil hollow]

you dont RP here

[lavish flame]

We don't roleplay here, we mostly chat about D&D, but we don't actually do any roleplaying in here

[stiff rock]

If you want a game to RP in, there are occasionally some text based roleplay games in #looking-for-players

But this server is for discussions surrounding the TTRPG, its rules, and relevant media

[olive wyvern]

Oh okay. Thank you for clarifying for me

[rough atlas]

What's the difference between paid and free games? I keep thinking for the paid games you have to pay to play in the campaign..

[tall forge]

Thats most likely the case i would assume

[prisma blade]

paid games is under the assumption that you're going to have a higher skilled dm

because he's going to be putting a decent amount of work into making a story worth paying for

[empty thicket]

Quality most of time.
Better Dms, maps, they tend to have all the content or a big content open too. More worked out stories, etc. etc.

There is a guy that talk in this chat that is one of those, i dont remember his tag but he live doing that

[prisma blade]

Lucky man

[jolly agate]

Wait, some ppl PAY for games?

[crimson gulch]

That is correct, a paid game you pay for every session you play in, like buying a movie ticket

[tall forge]

I wonder if its the guy named “full time pro dm”

[jolly agate]

That's kinda sad

[tall forge]

Thats a toxic way to view it

[prisma blade]

I dont think you get how much work some of these players put into dming man

[tall forge]

If you have a group who no one wants to dm, you get a dm

You want to ensure quality, you pay that dm

[crimson gulch]

Yes, it's my full time job running games of dnd, life is good

[prisma blade]

If you’re too stingy to chuck 10 bucks at a man pouring his soul out for you so be it but dont judge those who arent

[jolly agate]

Fr?, oh damn that's a cool job ngl

[tall forge]

This isn’t even going into events at game stores or other stuff

[crimson gulch]

I charge 25 to 35 a session, not a lot of 10$ games put there that are worth it

[rough atlas]

How do you not get tired omg

[prisma blade]

Even 25-35 aint bad at all

[tall forge]

DMing is a lot of work, up to multiple hours out of game

[prisma blade]

You’re basically paying for a movie you get to participate in

[crimson gulch]

I get tired, but this is still way better than the last full time job I had

[tall forge]

Doing what you love at least

[rough atlas]

Yes! This is truee, I have my own fair share of dm'ing and it's very needy for passion

[crimson gulch]

I run in person at game stores and online

[tall forge]

I only dm one campaign but i put in at least 8 hours a week for a weekly session outside the game

[prisma blade]

The use of ai lowk is the only reason why im even considering going back to dming so I can spend lest time in the weeds

[crimson gulch]

You don't need ai to run dnd

[tall forge]

I dislike having ai in my games, i like it to be human 100%

Creative vision and all

[limber trail]

I would be upfront about any use of AI because I know a lot of players get very bothered by use of AI in their games. (I personally have left games over it, and have had a worse experience because of use of AI by dms)

[tall forge]

Ofc ive failed at this

[empty thicket]

if you want something good, you pay for it.

[tall forge]

Theres a lot of ai on google images 😔

[prisma blade]

I mean as a college student and a co op worker i dont often have time to plan out the main story line and think of a fun side addition week to week while also thinking for pacing for a 3-4 hour dession

Ntm its abulity for map creation

[empty thicket]

i know a page that is filled with it to the point they added a "not AI" button

[jolly agate]

I was thinking more about the part where you pay to play D&D with people, not about paying for the DM, now I feel guilty

[rough atlas]

I was working on the maps one time and when we were playing I noticed the map they're on is ai generated 💔💔 I've been fooled

[tall forge]

Oh i just make my maps

[jolly agate]

But ye it makes sense now

[crimson gulch]

I'm also a full time stay at home dad with high need kids, human made resources are better than ai, you don't need to make everything yourself

[limber trail]

I've been able to mostly avoid it with some pretty solid use of search tools and carteful eyes

[empty thicket]

with some people yes, but it can be a group that want a good DM that give them all a funny and good experience

[crimson gulch]

There are so many books out there you can pickup and run

[empty thicket]

They arent "giga expensive" and its a little pamper to one itself

[tall forge]

And even if you do (i do) its a skill you learn

And the more you learn the faster/better you are

[prisma blade]

Agree to disagree ig, every thought and ifea for the story is completely my own I just like being able to pull up encounters and fun side quests by need

[crimson gulch]

Yeah and books are a better resource than ai

[tall forge]

Side related, im trying to get out of the “side quest” mindset

[frail wasp]

whats the "side quest" mindset...?

[tall forge]

Trying to make distinctions between side quests and main quests

[cursive fjord]

I was just thinking, if you wanted to choke someone out in dnd, there isn't really a good way to do it...

[jolly agate]

Honestly i would pay a crapload of money to get a cool dm like Matthew Mercer for a session whit me and ma friends so ye i kinda see it

[frail wasp]

i.e. not having a side quest mindset means every quest is equally important?

[tidal bough]

I can say as both a player that has been in ai run campaigns and a dm that has had ai run players.

Ai is significantly noticeably worse than human made content.

[tall forge]

Pretty much

[limber trail]

It's also a matter of being economical with what you make. creating things that can be reused, learning to use good tools efficiently to speed up your work, relying on other players to help you out.

[frail wasp]

not familiar with that mind set :S

[tall forge]

More so acknowledging anything the players are INTERESTED in doing is just as important as the main quest

[empty thicket]

Make an idea of what is the principal quest.
Aka: Go to the dragon lair and retrieve back X powerful magic item.
Side quest: A person asked you if you could retrieve a relic from their family.

[limber trail]

Like a quarter of the content in my games is in some way created by my own players

not fully created but it has its roots in their ideas & creations

[frail wasp]

IME ai content is on par with ripping random junk off the internet and then tossing it into the game, its no substitute for effort

[fossil hollow]

at least if im ripping it myself i understand what parts im ripping

[limber trail]

some random junk can be pretty good if you search the right places. AI is just shlock. Never really worth the time

[tall forge]

Ai tends to not know the rules of the game from what i hear

[limber trail]

I've played with AI generated DMs and the extents to which they don't follow the actual rules of the game is quite significant

[tall forge]

So it makes abominations to run

[frail wasp]

random junk can be a meme, but 'good' i'll push back on

[crimson gulch]

Correct, it's so bad

[frail wasp]

oh yall taking about llms, i thought yall meant art

[limber trail]

shoutout the AI which said that the reason a ring of protection was rare is because you can wear up to ten of them

whereas you can only have one cloak of protection

[tall forge]

Ah. Of course

What a fool

I can wear 20 rings of protection

Fingers and toes, that stupid robot

[empty thicket]

unless you wrap it around your body like bandages

[frail wasp]

and we dont need to keep going from there

[tall forge]

Im gonna be blinged out and unhittable 😎

[frail wasp]

unfortunately the LLM can't count though

20 rings? that raises your AC to 16 mmhmm yep that checks out

[tidal bough]

Pov you use your 3 attunement slots to attune to all 20 rings 😎

[tall forge]

I just keep attuning, duh

Infinite attunement loop

Nonetheless, finding real art on the internet usually just feels better

Plus gives me reasons to add on to homebrew monsters

Or give me extra ideas

[frail wasp]

turning existing art into a new game mechanic is fun

[tidal bough]

I generally prefer to just pull up paint and make the most jank art for stuff

[tall forge]

Im way too stubborn of an artist for someone whose just started drawing

[tidal bough]

Made a finger sword which was just a bunch of gnarled fingers that on a hit could cause the target to get grappled for a turn

[tall forge]

It takes me hours to get stuff down 😔

[empty thicket]

i read one time a homebrew rule i liked.
It insert the idea that every creature have "magic" on them, some more than others and casters find ways to canalize it in many ways. While martials dont get spells their bodies get fortified
Explaining why they get more capacities than others and justifying why they could get access to attune to more magic items.

[empty thicket]

Great idea!! hope its the last. /jk

[tidal bough]

And then flavor wise, users of it that were found dead in battle would often be found missing fingers, who knows where they went 👀

[tall forge]

Im sorry i ated them 😔

[frail wasp]

forbidden technique: eldritich finger gun sword blast

choose 20 targets with 120 feet ... allies are chosen if there arent enough targets

[empty thicket]

im seeing a guy pull out a sword made of fingers, im leaving the casters to go %100 on him.
"lets forget the objective, our objective NOW is to delete this from existence"

[frail wasp]

thats fair

[empty thicket]

Reality breaking the guy.

[tall forge]

I have a group of mercenarys/adventurers in my setting who use demonic cursed weapons/items to monopolize the adventuring business

[empty thicket]

Hex, reality break, everything.

[tall forge]

Im stealing finger sword

[burnt valley]

The Mandarin from Marvel be like:

[empty thicket]

Which sword? there is no sword now. I used my wish ring to delete it from existence.

The sole idea of it was deleted too.

[tall forge]

I used my deck of many things to draw the fates, making it so you never got a wish ring

[empty thicket]

Pocket sand.

[frail wasp]

sole idea? foot sword confirmed

[tall forge]

:(

[tall forge]

@empty thicket ok you can kill this guy

[empty thicket]

Im approaching, im 2 turns away to get you.
Stand my ground, hit you 5 times and then action surge and hit you 5 more times.

wait, 5 to 6 times, depend of my luck.

Im not Saving any Lucky, giants attack and anything else.

[frail wasp]

Good thing I have 20 rings of protection

all on my sword tho

[tall forge]

On all 20 of the swords toes…

[empty thicket]

the sword is the one getting the protection.
You not. Make peace with any god you know.

[tall forge]

I need to think of more cursed demonic items

[frail wasp]

Blerp

[tall forge]

(Items that are incredibly op but have terrible costs)

[winged comet]

Hey, I have a question, is there a section in this discord channel where I can look for someone who can make dnd mini designs to print? mostly because have the character drawn and all, but I don't know someone who can make it 3D to print

[tall forge]

Had a player use their infernal dice to get nat 20s for free

6th one they exploded for all the damage they dealt….

[frail wasp]

armor whose AC increases by 1 whenever you get hit as it thickens and adapts. it also gets twice as heavy ... if it's too heavy for you to move, you can't get out of it

[wise finch]

sorry to come in so suddenly but does anyone know if there's a channel to share photos from bg3? I took some nice shadowheart pics with some clothes mods and don't know where to share them (or if I should just share it in #baldurs-gate-3-spoilers ?)

[empty thicket]

a revolver that is a russian roulette, "devils roulette"
Each shoot have 1d6 chance to shoot back (have to land in 1)
Each time you do a critic the number get higher (1 and 2 shoot back)
If you get shoot back the roulette reset.
IF you dont get shoot at the 5º critic. The revolver make your next 6 attacks be always critic.

[tall forge]

Got no ranged weapon users to tempt them but i will steal that

[tall forge]

Nicely evil

[empty thicket]

be free to, its a risky thing but if someone pull out the 6 Devil shots its going to do TONS of damage. And would need a lot of luck

[knotty vine]

I wish there was more luck based things in dnd

[empty thicket]

there is already enough if we considerate all is "luck" most of the time

[frail wasp]

what do you mean? all these 18 stats were all skill

[empty thicket]

eh¿?

[tall forge]

I have a 30 in con bc im skilled

I rolled really good lvl 1 for stats

[frail wasp]

no lies detected

[empty thicket]

Bro dont want to feel any poison or stomach ache in his life.

Bro can eat zombies and be healthy like nothing happen

[tall forge]

Shoulda built better

Then maybe you can consume beholder flesh raw like me

[frail wasp]

livin the dream

[empty thicket]

Bro can kiss an ancient Wyvern Poison like wine

(Wyvern poison save Dc being 14 is criminal.)

[tall forge]

Poison is criminally bad

[frail wasp]

poison should have been luckier

[empty thicket]

2000gp for purple worm poison. That one have a 21dc at least but damn... unless you get one like a mascot and use it or some way to supply youself with that.... 2k gp for 1 stance of extra damage is painful

[tall forge]

Its at least damaging on a successful save

[empty thicket]

60 extra damage in max roll + weapon

[tall forge]

Be a rogue

[empty thicket]

welp, let see, what you doing?

[empty thicket]

800 enemies that are immune to poison.

[tall forge]

:(

[empty thicket]

.... if its irl i dont think this is the best place to ask or do such things.

[tall forge]

Sir this is a dnd discord

And dnd being therapy has horrid consequences

I can certainly be therapeutic

But not actual therapy

[empty thicket]

yeah, tell it to me, i wanted to play Rogue, assassin and do like a character i love in another game, throw shivs, poison and apply effects on the enemy but poison is bad like eating a deep fried burger with cheddar cheese on it

[tall forge]

Yeah also rogue assasin is kinda bad

In the sense that dnd doesnt really adequately explain what “surprised” is

[empty thicket]

Whole rogue is bad.
if it was something like "sneak attack proc when you attack in the back of the enemy" i would like it more

If you want try to make a VR game with Baldurs gate system or smt like that to base and maybe improve.

[tall forge]

Best youre getting is dnd in vr chat, which sounds kinda awesome actually

[empty thicket]

And more if its VR, considerating is an expensive console, some people get dizzy on it and finally not everybody can play it comfortable for either size of the room or things.

[tall forge]

But like… it can be a 5 hour game

[empty thicket]

Can make VR campaigns? Yes.
It would take some knowledge making maps and stuff but yeah, its possible.

Same concept than DnD beyond and Owlbear.

[tall forge]

It would be so cool

[tribal shadow]

Hi

[empty thicket]

Sessions should be shorter, for both sides.
Players would get more tired because is tooo much more stuff and DM wont spend toooo much time making stuff

[tall forge]

But i know id get sick

[empty thicket]

hi there bud

[tribal shadow]

Wanna see my edit

I worked hard on it

[empty thicket]

yeah, why not

[tribal shadow]

There two one I'm fixing and one I finished

Why can't I add it

[empty thicket]

I know its possible because there is the engine of Half life Alyx, using that and some stuff. One can make a whole DnD campaign.

[empty thicket]

this channel and others dont allow to upload images, videos, stickers, gifs, etc. etc.

[tall forge]

I dont even mean like, the effects or anything just substituting it for being in person could be cool

And im sure people already do it

But yeah, could not survive in a VR headset for 6 hours

[tribal shadow]

Can I send it to you

[empty thicket]

6 hours nope, would be TOOOOO MUCH. 1 to 3, 4 if they can handle it

[tribal shadow]

I sent you the edits

[tall forge]

Yeah, but my campaign sessions are 5-6 hours minimum 😔

[tame estuary]

tabletop simulator has vr support

I pinged the wrong one

[jolly agate]

beans

[shrewd pebble]

Chat

If yall could have 1 cantrip irl what are yall picking

[lavish flame]

Prestidigitation fr

[shrewd pebble]

I think viscous mockery would be tuff

[shrewd pebble]

Whats that do

Does it let u eat everything

[tribal shadow]

Hey who wants to see my edit I've been working on

[shrewd pebble]

Whats that cantrip do

[tall forge]

Does a lot

Its the “does all your minor chores” cantrip

[polar ember]

First session ended well XD God never wanted to TPK a party that badly before 🥹

[tall forge]

Well now i wanna know whats up

[lavish flame]

Takes an action to cast, dpes one of these. You can have max of 3 of these active at a time:

• Sensory Effect. You create an instantaneous, harmless sensory effect, such as a shower of sparks, a puff of wind, faint musical notes, or an odd odor.
• Fire Play. You instantaneously light or snuff out a candle, a torch, or a small campfire.
• Clean or Soil. You instantaneously clean or soil an object no larger than 1 cubic foot.
• Minor Sensation. You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour.
• Magic Mark. You make a color, a small mark, or a symbol appear on an object or a surface for 1 hour.
• Minor Creation. You create a nonmagical trinket or an illusory image that can fit in your hand. It lasts until the end of your next turn. A trinket can deal no damage and has no monetary worth.

[shrewd pebble]

Holy shit

Okay so theres a couple uses for irl

[craggy summit]

Prestidigitation is kinda of a combo cantrip, it just does alot of stuff

[tall forge]

I could commit so much crime

[shrewd pebble]

But u can be a rapper and shit with viscous mockery

[half igloo]

I just played the longest 5 hours of my life

[hushed mason]

3.5 prestidigitation is even more open/useful than 5e.

[shrewd pebble]

Best rapper there would be

[hushed mason]

It would definitely be my choice of cantrips.

[craggy summit]

I think mage hand would be a really cool irl cantrip, only downside is the weight limit tho

[lavish flame]

Hold on, that doesn't make your mockery good, it just makes them hurt people

[polar ember]

started a tyranny of dragons campaign and my monk decides they wanted to Supplex an ambush drake and rolled a Nat 20 doing it, and another played a dhampir rolled a 20 eating the drake, and it took them an hr. to settle in cause everyone in that campaign has adhd XD

[half igloo]

Lvl 6 party of 6 challenging a 3 phase mimic boss that was supposed to be for lvl 8 characters
We almost got TPKd and I used every resource I had on me to make it out alive with the parties total health being 35 because of 3 people standing

[burnt valley]

Minor Illusion or Control Flames or Prestidigitation

[tribal shadow]

Wanna see my edit

[craggy summit]

Actually what about druid craft?

[tribal shadow]

Anyone I worked hard hard on it

[shrewd pebble]

If I actually feel pain from a person's insult then its automatically a good insult

[tall forge]

If i knew it was magically enhanced

You would lose so much aura points in my head

[shrewd pebble]

But u wouldn't so no problemo brochacho

[tall forge]

Bro needed magic to make me feel bad

[shrewd pebble]

Damn I want something like doc ocs hands

I have like 3 different dnd charecters I really wanna play

But I cant find a campaign that interests me, what a shame

And there so tuff too

[tall forge]

Become the dm

[craggy summit]

If you can't beat them, join em

[polar ember]

I usually run horror campaigns that’s hard to find players for

[shrewd pebble]

Horror is scary tho

[tall forge]

I find horror difficult in dnd

[shrewd pebble]

No beuno brotato

[polar ember]

I use SCPs or urban legends as the basis of the world

[tall forge]

Banish em

I feel fear no longer

[fossil hollow]

Greater Magic Resistance.

[polar ember]

Last time I did it one of the players avoid going to a the bathroom late at night cause I made them read a curse poem

[tall forge]

who said this was a spell

[craggy summit]

If I had a dollar for everytime banishment turned a grueling encounter into a cakewalk, I'd have $3, which isn't alot but a bit weird it happened 3 times

[fossil hollow]

m e

[tall forge]

W-my spell like ability…. What have you done?!

[fossil hollow]

i rewrote the game batman

[shrewd pebble]

Yk whats really tuff

Magic n shit

[fossil hollow]

theres no laws against rewriting the game batman

[lavish flame]

Yeah, its not really built for it

[tall forge]

No joker, no

Thats not RAW joker

[fossil hollow]

im gonna do it batman, im gonna port one piece into dnd batman

and then add solo levelling on top

[lavish flame]

This is the "kick down doors and kill shit" game, not the "run in terror from the monsters" game

[craggy summit]

A good (or sadistic) DM can definitely make you run in terror from monsters actually 👀

[tall forge]

No don’t do that no dont do it

[polar ember]

Corpse Party dnd Campaign 🤣

[tall forge]

You cant have whimsy like that joker its wrong

[fossil hollow]

ahahahaha

[polar ember]

Someone needs to run a escape room campaign I find that might be kinda fun

[woven flint]

Made me unreasonably angry just then, Ti smh

[fossil hollow]

thats the point tokii

[tall forge]

Idk what you could even do to put solo leveling into dnd

Make one player unreasonably op?

[tall forge]

Players go into an already solved dungeon, and accidentally reset it while at the end

[limber trail]

please dont

[fossil hollow]

aura farm takes your whole turn for +1000 to your next attack and damage rolls

[polar ember]

😭

[tall forge]

Session 1. “Im a super go lucky optimist!”

Session 3. “Its kill or be killed, tokii. And this creature is beneath me”

[woven flint]

What? I'm always like that by session 3

[tall forge]

Ps5 for people still confused

[fossil hollow]

not sure how thats related to dnd

[limber trail]

In Waterdeep you aren’t very kill or be killed

[burnt valley]

Longbows (in a mount)

[shrewd pebble]

Had to break the ice type shit

Main point i really like magic n shit

[limber trail]

Any self respecting horror monster isn’t being done in by a mounted archer

[shrewd pebble]

Very tuff

[gaunt spindle]

I mean, in which channel

[shrewd pebble]

By asking the question

[woven flint]

Yet.

[craggy summit]

Ask the question, either here or in #dnd-rules

[gaunt spindle]

Sorry for wording it wrong, my main language is not english

[calm storm]

Ello

[limber trail]

You would ask here, or you could also ask #dnd-rules if it’s a slightly more niche and complicated ruling

#dm-discussion might also be appropriate maybe but I wouldn’t use it as my first go-to

[shrewd pebble]

Just ask me brocery store

[gaunt spindle]

At our first session, we have faced battle between two npcs, one of them has black wings and other has white wings
Black Wing one started to prepare a spell?

My dm wanted an int check from me, i rolled nat 20.
He said its Power Word:Kill

I have NEVER heard such a spell before ( Beware, Im really new to DnD and its my first time playing wizard as well)

[fossil hollow]

thats a 9th level spell

[gaunt spindle]

What is the capabilities of this spell?
What Npc's level could be?

[fossil hollow]

it insta kills you if you have below 100 hp

[marble lion]

Are you playing 2024 or 2014 dnd?

[gaunt spindle]

2014
My dm said he hates 2024 😭 Idk why

[limber trail]

They're about as strong as a 17th-20th level character

[gaunt spindle]

WHAT

[fossil hollow]

its one of the highest level spells in the game

[limber trail]

It's in the highest tier of spells in the game.

[fossil hollow]

being 9th level

[shrewd pebble]

Whats the difference BroZilla

[limber trail]

Those are phenomenally strong beings, approach with extreme caution

[marble lion]

Wordkill is different

[limber trail]

PWK works differently in the two editions

[shrewd pebble]

Whats the word

[gaunt spindle]

Im genuienly scared of losing my character 😭
The guy who was fighting with other figure made a kind of zone(?) to block the spells that can come to others in ship

[fossil hollow]

2024 if it doesnt kill deals 12d12 damage

[gaunt spindle]

Its my first time playing wizard and im kind of scared to build my character wrong

[marble lion]

It sounds to me like youre meant to flee or something
The DM gave you a conscious warning

[tall forge]

If a dm power word kills you, thats pretty bad of em

[limber trail]

Okay so a little peak behind the curtain: Your DM probably isn't going to kill you with power word kill early on. You're not intended to fight and win

[tall forge]

They probably are just spooking you

[limber trail]

well, I don't always agree, but in the first session yes

[lavish flame]

u gotta chill with the headers bruh

[gaunt spindle]

They suceed on that because holy hell what was that 😭

[shrewd pebble]

Mb

[tall forge]

I rarely ever see a point personally

Its not particularly good in combat

[fossil hollow]

i threw it last sunday at a level 15 party, it got countered

[tall forge]

That is the rare use id gamble for

[fossil hollow]

the lich essentially knew their hp totals, so

[limber trail]

An action to take a combatant out of the fight can be huge. At high levels you have so much survivability that PWK bypasses. I wouldn't recommend it for players and I wouldn't recommend it often

[tall forge]

Oh you’re evil evil

[gaunt spindle]

One of the captains earlier i met in the session that i wanted a suggestion from only said me one word "Faith."
Later that fight there was meteors all over our ship, We ALL thought we was gonna die but the captain appeared near our ship and started to rise tides from all around to block meteors
I screamed "I never lost my faith!" to the captain, This was so cool dude.
I know this channel isn't a correct one to share but I just wanted to share this :D

[fossil hollow]

sammaster has 20+ INT and WIS, he can figure it out

[limber trail]

The general idea is relatively easy. Hit the players a few times, get them hurt, and go for the money shot. At level 15 most of them shouldn't be too far off 100hp, a couple lich hits will do it

[lavish flame]

to answer the question tho, there's no prewritten word for Power Word: Kill. I've always taken that to mean "you say something in a more cosmic language", like the universe has language you're accessing for a Power Word. Some people take that to mean "You say any word", so Vecna might just say "Sleep." to your buddy, and they croak.

[fossil hollow]

yeah, the sorc only had 127 hp, and 27 hp wasnt a lot hard to take off with a breath weapon

[fossil hollow]

basically imagine the adventure time lich, or the word demon from black clover.

"fall"

[tall forge]

Saying 1 word and downing someone, no matter how, is always pretty aura

And if the BBEG needs anything, its aura

[limber trail]

I personally keep the words incredibly simple & easy to remember. It's a representation of direct, clear intention & action. So, you want to kill someone? That's easy.

"Kill."

You want to stun someone? "Stun." Et cetera.

[lavish flame]

"Pain." and then they writhe in agony is pretty sweet

[fossil hollow]

how many power words we got actually? IK we got pain, stun, fortify, and kill

[tall forge]

Im personally a big fan of “end.”

[limber trail]

You're missing heal is the 5th in 2024

[fossil hollow]

oh damn

now to make power word shi-

[tall forge]

Thats command

[limber trail]

It would be fun to make new power words

[lavish flame]

yo Power Word Fortify? ive never seen this but its cool

[fossil hollow]

its so much thp

[tall forge]

Also “break”

[fossil hollow]

... now i wonder what power word cycle would do

[limber trail]

I want to make a custom 9th level spell which essentially is a reaction when a creature dies. The spell is just "End Life". When that creature dies, their soul & body is annihlated. They cannot be revived, all of their clones and simulacrums are destroyed, and they do not go to any afterlife or retain any consciousness in any capacity after death.

[fossil hollow]

... maybe i should give my dragon god power word reset

[limber trail]

ten thousand bikies come and join the fight

[fossil hollow]

bikies? thats a new term

[limber trail]

It’s what we call bikers in Australia

[lavish flame]

In Draw Steel, there's an ability the time wizard can do called "Again." where they make you retry a roll after it failed. Maybe it does something lile that

[fossil hollow]

its ouroboros, so im thinking something along the lines of that

alas, his reaction is saved to reduce radiant damage

[limber trail]

could always give him multiple reaction options

[fossil hollow]

whoops, it didnt copy

||Devour the Light (5/Day). Trigger: A creature deals Radiant damage while within 30 feet of the avatar. Reaction: If the creature dealt Radiant damage, it instead deals half the Radiant damage and takes Necrotic damage equal to the damage dealt.||

[limber trail]

oh so this is the boss which you were listening to bury the light while designing

[fossil hollow]

honestly, i might, im already adapting him to the drakkenheim mythical monsters

[tall forge]

Oo i can explain my custom guy too

While in darkness, he cant be hit by spells or attacks and he is also always in darkness

This is very fair and balanced you see

[shrewd pebble]

Hey chit chatters whats yalls favorite race in the game

[fossil hollow]

goliath

[lavish flame]

Warforged

[shrewd pebble]

I love warforged

[tall forge]

In FR, human

[shrewd pebble]

BESTO FRIENDO!!!

[tall forge]

To play, no idea yet 😔

[harsh hollow]

I tend towards goblins and goblin adjacent races. Running a hobgoblin and a bugbear currently, ran a goblin for a one shot. Plan to run a verdan soon.

[jolly agate]

cow

[tall forge]

So far, ive played a bugbear, an eladrin, and a human

But i have so many concepts

[onyx haven]

Half-elves were the mainstay for me for a while lol. Truly perfect beings, they were.

[lavish flame]

The more relevant characters I've played were a Genasi (air), a Goliath (fire), and my current Tiefling (Infernal)

Ooh, Half-Elves is a good call. 2014 Half Elves were just unreal

[harsh hollow]

Tried a good 'ol classic wood elf for my latest campaign just to deviate from the goblins for a bit. x3

She's a lot of fun though.

[onyx haven]

+2 cha, 2 floating +1s to anywhere else, 2 floating skill profs, dark vision, and fey ancestry.

Just perfect beings lol

[harsh hollow]

They made more specific half-elves as well if you wanted like a small portion of the full elf's power on there too.

And if you wanted artwork of the wood half-elf with a really unfitting beard, for some reason.

[unreal drum]

Im trying to make a race about being a ghost or spirit.

Dose anyone have any cool sounding names that would work for it?

Like Wondering Spirit or something.

Wraith or something more excentric

[severe rampart]

Apparition? Poltergeist? Weeping Angel?