dnd-discussion

[remote wadi]

That is true, but you could also have very few spells that rely on concentration

Not saying it is the case here, just a genuine example of how it could be a moot point

[blissful ibex]

question is more if there are good conentration spells to be concentrating on, then in that case it'd be a yes

[humble cairn]

If you do you'd be missing out on a lot of power.

[undone rain]

I might be a loot goblin

Like im armed to the TEETH

[humble cairn]

Even just having Bless up for most fights is a pretty big thing.

If you have access to spells at all you're going to want to use your Concentration in combat.

[undone rain]

I got 5 javelins, a greatsword, flail, greatclub, dagger and now a longsword

2 daggers now

[remote wadi]

Right, but for all I know, it could be spacing fireball or being a Lightning Bolt Enjoyer

This is my way of asking what concentration spells are common among Sorcadins

[humble cairn]

Which you can do all while having a concentration spell up. They're not mutually exclusive?

[humble cairn]

Well, Bless is almost never a bad one to have up, but as I mentioned earlier the meme tactic for 2014 Sorcadins is Quickened Hold Person followed up by two auto-crit attacks with max leveled Divine Smites on them.

[real thunder]

I think u can do short sword then scimitar

[jovial badger]

but like rapier give damage boost ya feel

but as part of dual wielder You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light.

[remote wadi]

Mmm, that's how crits are done with it. Gotcha

[humble cairn]

Not exactly.

Wait, sorry, Dual wielder 2014 or 2024?

[jovial badger]

2024

[blissful ibex]

only as the offhand

sequencing turn A would be:

• (draw shortsword and nick weapon) shortsword
• nick attack (stow nick weapon)
• shortsword (draw rapier)
• rapier as BA

issue is second turn you'll be holding the shortsword and rapier, so turn B would need to:

• stow the rapier for your first attack
• draw nick wepaon with second
• Take the nick attack and bonus attack with the nick weapon

would only be able to use the rapier every other turn; and at that point you might as well just use a scimitar which is a 1d8 light weapon with the finesse and nick properties

[remote wadi]

Oof, this is getting a bit tricky now

[humble cairn]

Ok so I'm right. With DW 2024 it doesn't just let you use non light weapons. It only allows you to use your Bonus Action attack with a non-Light weapon.

[jovial badger]

ah.

[humble cairn]

"Offhand" isn't a thing, technically.

This is why I suggested the #dnd-rules channel.

[jovial badger]

is there any loophole that can make me annoy my dm as much as possible with this nick/dual wield

[real thunder]

I don't think it works because it isn't a light wepon

[humble cairn]

Don't try and annoy your DM, that's bad form.

[worldly flare]

Yeah

[remote wadi]

I can't exactly do a middle route because getting both GWM and War Caster is probably ill advised

[humble cairn]

Nick and Dual Wield do stack, allowing you two more attacks than standard, but if you want to use a non-Light weapon you will need to have a hand free somehow because you will need to attack with three different weapons in total.

[jovial badger]

mmm ok

[humble cairn]

The way I did it was to use Thrown Weapons. If you throw your weapon away, your hand is free!

[jovial badger]

like a handaxe, which also gives vex!

but it doesnt have finesse dang it

[remote wadi]

So I guess I should ask. Which is more important for all tiers of gameplay: a -5+10 with a Greatsword or advantage on Concentration saves and the single target benefits?

[jovial badger]

dagger is light thrown finesse nick right? could i start with a thrown dagger?

[humble cairn]

I used Light Hammers and Tridents. I didn't use Dual Wielder because I wanted to save my BA for smites, but I could have.

[real thunder]

I wouldn't recommend trying to annoy your dm.
Also rouge doesn't really have much loopholes and random stuff like that in it

[humble cairn]

Probably Concentration saves.

[halcyon forum]

with a sorcadin, I dont think GWM is super important

[burnt valley]

It wouldn't but probably just slows the game abit

[halcyon forum]

keeping conc is

[undone rain]

Like you can tease your dm but dont piss em off

[burnt valley]

Depends

Fullcasters would want advantage on conc saves

[blissful ibex]

you're better off just going shortsword + scimitar #dnd-discussion message

[jovial badger]

ohhh ok ty

and change the feat im guessing?

[humble cairn]

Yes. Dagger > Extra attack Dagger > Nick Dagger > Dual Wield BA Rapier would work.

[severe rampart]

Which is why War Caster is amazing🙏

[blissful ibex]

you still want to take Dual Wielder so you can make the extra bonus attack
you want to switch weapon masteries to short sword and scimitar

[humble cairn]

Oh no Extra Attack if you're a Rogue. Just cut that one out.

[undone rain]

Ahhh another dnd sesh done

[jovial badger]

i would need 2 daggers for that?

[jovial badger]

ok ok ty!

[severe rampart]

Did you lose to another sorcerer in a boxing match

[humble cairn]

Yes, because the Light weapon property requires to make the attack with a different weapon.

[jovial badger]

so would you recommend using daggers and rapiers or shortswords and scimitars?

[blissful ibex]

shortsword gives vex which is free advantage on the nick attack, procing sneak attack
shortsword > scimitar nick attack > scimitar dual wielder attack is the best way to go with that for rogue, seeing as rogue gets proficiency with both of those weapons

[undone rain]

Funny enough no buuuuut i am armed to the teeth now, have another curse with long term madness and if i dont have my holy symbol thats further then 30 feet away from me i have disadvantage on attack rollsnand get the madness again

[remote wadi]

It does feel like that. But I am a bit confused on what good Fighting Style to do. Defense seems pretty underwhelming for it being a +1

[humble cairn]

No, Defense is solid and higly recommended.

It's boring, but mechanically probably one of the best.

[jovial badger]

it depends on your build

[remote wadi]

For just one point in AC? If it was 2, I would totally understand. But just 1?

[jovial badger]

defense is VERY solid for basically any class

[humble cairn]

Yes, just 1.

[jovial badger]

ok, thanks for all the help!!!

[severe rampart]

The hell happened? 😭

[jovial badger]

but if i have 2 weapon fighting i can add my dex modifier to all of those?

[undone rain]

Alot of bad rolls and a giant arse of a squidlike being trying to kill us

Im talking eldritch squid shit

[blissful ibex]

only to the nick attack, TWF doesn't work with dual wielder BA attack

[burnt valley]

True true

[remote wadi]

How big of a difference does it make?

[burnt valley]

Archery + CBE + SS

[blissful ibex]

Though you might be able to swing making the Dual Wielder attack using the shortsword instead of the scimitar if you consider the nick attack the procing attack to qualify for making the dual wielder attack
unsure if you get to choose or if it uses whichever weapon you attack first with

[remote wadi]

Sorcadin build. 2014

[humble cairn]

Bigger than most of your other choices.

[halcyon forum]

defense is the best choice for melee characters unless you are a spear+shield user (or a 2024 dual wielder)
for ranged the best is archery

[burnt valley]

Oh mb

[burnt valley]

You may want to avoid multiclassing until you get to at least 6 levels of Paladin, Aura of Protection is really good

[jovial badger]

You don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative.

dual wielder 2024

[remote wadi]

You know, it would make sense thematically

[jovial badger]

so i can
shortsword with vex and dex > scimitar nick > dual wield scimitar

does that leave BA open?

[blissful ibex]

but it's not because you have dex and are using finesse, so you don't add it
and TWF only works with the light property extra attack

[blissful ibex]

the dual wield atack uses your BA

[knotty pasture]

Cuz everything else kind of sucks

[burnt valley]

You may want to take a read at this since its quite similar https://tabletopbuilds.com/flagship-build-oath-of-the-watchers-paladin/

[knotty pasture]

Or is situational

[jovial badger]

ah ok thanks!

[knotty pasture]

Dueling would be nice too if it wasn't tied to sword and board (in a world where polearms are better)

[burnt valley]

(also a world where ranged is the one above all cuz creatures deal more truck ton of damage in melee than in ranged)

[jovial badger]

and the vex triggers sneak attack on the nick or dual wield?

[blissful ibex]

(also a world where ranged spellcasting is above ranged weapons)

[burnt valley]

should i mention that frontlining doesn't exist for the same reasons above

[knotty pasture]

Yeah so anyways great feat in theory but tied to all the wrong weapons in the world

[jovial badger]

ah but does it need to be 2 different scimitars

no right? as it needs to be a different weapon to the shortsword, not the scimitar

[fast latch]

Can Dragons get piercings or are their scales too strong?

[blissful ibex]

Just need to find someone with an adamantium needle/spike XD

[burnt valley]

adamantium spike, +3 is needed for ancient dragons

[grizzled lance]

I just realized that old dwarf gets a +2 to 2 stats at the cost of 5 movement

[fast latch]

That’s only Mountain

Hill gets +2 Con +1 Wis

[blissful ibex]

only specifically if you take 2014 Mountain Dwarf
2014 Hill Dwarf gets half the tough feat instead

[grizzled lance]

I was just about to bring that up

Why dont more people play a spell casting dwarf

Not to mention they get quite a few marital tool and even medium or light armor proficiencies

[blissful ibex]

dwarven cleric is like one of the more classic species/class combinations tbf

[grizzled lance]

I’ve never seen that in a game before

Why not a sorcerer or wizard

[blissful ibex]

sorcerer is a CHA class and wizard is INT

[severe rampart]

IIRC, Dwarves are more of like martial fighters instead of spellcasters

[blissful ibex]

played a 2014 CoS game where one of the players was a Hill Dwarf Death Domain Cleric of Kelemvor

[remote wadi]

Making my character smoothly. Just need to ask what would be the primary stat between Str and Chr

[grizzled lance]

With Tasha you can change around the ability scores

[blissful ibex]

for rogue? Dex

[remote wadi]

2014 Sorcadin

[grizzled lance]

And almost every dm uses Tasha’s

[blissful ibex]

you need 13 str minimun, so bear that in mind
stat distribution gets a bit tight if you prioritise DEX as then you're split over 13 str, dex, con, and cha
doable but you're going to need to dump int/wis and take a lower con

[severe rampart]

I find it somewhat funny that in my language, goblins, elves and dwarves are all grouped as one creature

[grizzled lance]

P sure you can kinda remove dex

It’s not as important as it once was

[blissful ibex]

heavy armor lets you make it so it doesn't impact AC, dex saves are still one of the better ones

[remote wadi]

The 3 main stats will be Chr, Str, and Con

[grizzled lance]

Shield master

• aura of protection

[remote wadi]

That's actually a good point

[blissful ibex]

still have to actually make the save for shield master to do anything

-phb 2024, text included as per the relevant rulestext cutout

If you're subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can take a Reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw and are holding a Shield.

[remote wadi]

And my character will be considerably invested in defense

[remote wadi]

You get, iirc, a +6 without Res Dex at level 6

[severe rampart]

How are dex saves one of the better ones?

[grizzled lance]

It adds a + to whatever your shields defense is so +2 or +3 if your shield is magic

[grizzled lance]

It’s one of the most common saves

[remote wadi]

Dex saves are the most common saves, with Wis being a runner up or first, according to some

[severe rampart]

I see

[remote wadi]

And with AoP, that's probably another +3 or so

[blissful ibex]

many, many spells and effects require a dexterity save

DEX, WIS, and CON are 3 three important saves
STR, INT, and CHA are the three less important ones in 2024

[grizzled lance]

And with bless you can add another 1d4 to your saves

So +3 +2-3 +1d4

[blissful ibex]

true, 2014 >.>

keep forgetting

[grizzled lance]

Only thing is your initiative might not be the best but the old alert is right there so

[grizzled lance]

It’s the same in 2024 I’m pretty sure

[blissful ibex]

nope, it was reworked
Does this #dnd-discussion message and lets you do a shield bash attack as part of the attack action for free

[grizzled lance]

Oh nah it did

[grizzled lance]

It worked exactly the same in 2014 but it also had that reaction thing as well

If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect

[remote wadi]

Only if it targets only you, unfortunately

[grizzled lance]

There’s plenty out there

[blissful ibex]

yeah, looking at it, it looks like they removed the add shield AC to dex saves and made the shove no longer take a BA
also made it a half ASI

[remote wadi]

Just throwing that out there

I should also ask, is a Sorcadin very stat dependent?

[grizzled lance]

They buffed warcaster unironically

[remote wadi]

Or can I get away with a feat or 2?

[grizzled lance]

In 2014 dex isn’t as important of a stat with the feats we had

[blissful ibex]

and nerfed 2024 sharpshooter >.>

[severe rampart]

Didn't they also nerf luck?

[grizzled lance]

Eh it kinda needed one

[blissful ibex]

heavily, it just gives advantage now and needs to be declared prior to the roll
also can impose disadvantage on attack rolls made against you

[severe rampart]

Yeah

[grizzled lance]

Lucky got both ends since you can use it more

That’s the only upside

[severe rampart]

Next time I'm in a 2014 campaign I'm playing a halfling

[remote wadi]

Okay, for level 1, is there anything seriously wrong with this layout for stats?
14 10 14 8 12 16

[stiff rock]

no, however -1 on a check can get annoying if you're often trying to investigate things

[remote wadi]

Should be good enough for Sorcadin

[grizzled lance]

Let other people do it

[remote wadi]

2014 Sorcadin for context

[grizzled lance]

It’s a team game not baldur’s gate

[blissful ibex]

's fine

[stiff rock]

i'm not familiar with the multiclass but it looks fine for stats

[stiff rock]

i never said it wasn't, i just mentioned it would be annoying if you investigated something

which yeah as you said can be solved by letting someone else do it

[remote wadi]

To be honest, I'm not the most familiar either

However, hear me out on this: Wild Magic is unbelievably funny

[grizzled lance]

Why would a Paladin sorcerer investigate something

[severe rampart]

Loot bodies of dead foes

[grizzled lance]

Really?

[stiff rock]

a religious symbol, of which the paladin seems the most obvious candidate to investigate

[severe rampart]

I mean, come on, studded leather for 45 GP early game can go along way

[remote wadi]

That wouldn't require a roll, though. Probably a DM would for extra goodies, but nothing for actually investigating

[grizzled lance]

“You clearly don’t see the man wearing studded leather”

[blissful ibex]

cuz they wanna play Roamin the crime solving, rank 11 paladin; now with better spellcasting

[stiff rock]

i'd ask for investigation or perception for anything further than stripping them of armour and weapons

[remote wadi]

Probably would also need a wagon to carry it all with

[severe rampart]

Not if you have a Goliath friend with 20 strength

[blissful ibex]

wagon and a mule is only like 43 gp

[severe rampart]

Halfling Rogue is quite fun to play

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but I don’t think you can start with those

[remote wadi]

Okay, need someone to fill in the blank with a good answer

"Name's Kaid, short for _"

[blissful ibex]

You can if you select the starting gold option and your DM allows it as 'equipment available for purchase' at the start of the game https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/creating-a-character#StartingEquipment

[severe rampart]

Kaid

add a pause after "for"

[stiff rock]

Kaid in r6s is named after the arabic word for 'leader', if that helps

[grizzled lance]

I know 2 dms who use that rule

[remote wadi]

No, I mean like.
If you did Buck, short for Buckminster

[severe rampart]

I kind of always do that

[remote wadi]

What would be for Kaid?

[severe rampart]

Kaidence

[grizzled lance]

What do you mean kind of

[remote wadi]

Good answer. Anyone else got good ones?

[severe rampart]

I almost always never use the preseted equipment.

[blissful ibex]

like standard adventuring equipment is always on the table and generally Tack and Harness and the more basic pack animals and mounts are available as well
cart is not too much of a stretch and most resonable DMs will allow it

[stiff rock]

yokai(d) - supernatural monster, bit of a stretch

[severe rampart]

And what'll you do if you pick the gold? Wait till the first session, so you can add your equipment?

[humble cairn]

Kairinde

[remote wadi]

...I'm also realizing that I am a sucker for pun names and names that have good translation

[blissful ibex]

Generally you want to make out a list and send it to your DM for approval either as part of session 0 or prior to session 1

that way you don't eat up a chunk of the session 1 time with a pre adventure shopping trip

[restive blade]

why does dnd beyond not let me choose echo fighter when i have bought the book for it?

[blissful ibex]

need to enable old content / side content maybe?
DDB is a terrible VTT , vastly prefer roll20 for ease of use and far easier ability to add homebrew

[remote wadi]

Adding onto this, trying to add a feat to my character, why is the only option available Grappler?

[blissful ibex]

2014 grappler is also objectively bad

please just attack the enemy instead of failing to secure the flighty wizard 2 turns in a row q_q

[severe rampart]

Literally my Bard's name is just "Solace" reversed

[grizzled lance]

The new grappler is amazing

[blissful ibex]

it really is <3

[crimson gulch]

It won't work with 2024 fighters on dnd beyond

[remote wadi]

I'm trying to add War Caster, but there's literally no options to pick. It's just Grappler

[severe rampart]

What

[blissful ibex]

and you have the spellcasting feature?
because 2014 paladin doesn't get it until level 2

[crimson gulch]

Sounds like you don't own the phb on dnd beyond

[restive blade]

critical role isnt supported by 2024 rules apparently or something like that xd

[severe rampart]

That was one of the reasons I was planning to buy the PhB💔

[crimson gulch]

Echo knights aren't in the phb

They are in the exporers guide to wildmount

[remote wadi]

So, my Sorcadin will be pretty focused on defenses and overall stalwartness. At least for the first Tier of play

His long name is Barrington "Bulwark" Kaidence

[severe rampart]

I could've sworn they were...

Hm, Urizt is right (never doubted him)

[remote wadi]

Isn't the 2014 PHB free?

[crimson gulch]

No

[severe rampart]

No, DnD Beyond has some free features, like a free sample, but not the entire thing

So some feats are locked behind the PHB

[remote wadi]

...30 Dimsdale dimmadollars for this thing >_>

[severe rampart]

But pretty sure you can get access to it if your campaign has content sharing on

[severe rampart]

(And one of your party members has the PhB)

[remote wadi]

You can, but can't make unrelated characters

[crimson gulch]

Yeh you just get access in the charicter builder for charicters built in campaigns with shared content

[remote wadi]

Thoughts on this, by the way?

[stiff rock]

sounds interesting!!

[remote wadi]

Was more asking about the name

[grizzled lance]

I am grounded I am present I am calm (I would like to rage)

[remote wadi]

?

[grizzled lance]

I rolled a nat 1

[severe rampart]

This is why we take the luck feat

[remote wadi]

F

[umbral girder]

Echo Knight does work with 2024 Fighter. I know because I have one in my Tuesday game.

Ti-moth plays them.

The Wildemount book CR stuff works, it might be the other CR stuff not from that book doesn’t work

[grizzled lance]

Does it i thought it was stuck in 2014

I doubt it works on the website through

[severe rampart]

Time to take out some pen and paper then

[severe rampart]

We're going back to primitive ways

[crimson gulch]

Yeah homebrew tools

[umbral girder]

Ahhh I see now. He didn’t tell me he homebrewed it onto his character sheet.

[grizzled lance]

Yeah

[severe rampart]

Evening Urizt, how many sessions this month now?

[grizzled lance]

All of echo knight would still work with 2024

[crimson gulch]

The 7th is tonight

[grizzled lance]

Also echo knight an amazing capstone ability

[crimson gulch]

Echo knight works on the 2024 fighter, just not in dnd beyond

[umbral girder]

Tbh I don’t like CR content so I rarely notice and is no skin off back.

[grizzled lance]

Being able to creature two wchos instead of one

[fast latch]

SEVEN sessions in eight days?!

[severe rampart]

It's his full time job

[fast latch]

Cool

[severe rampart]

Urizt also has done like 28+ sessions in January

[fast latch]

How the frick do you not get burned out?

[crimson gulch]

Yes. I have a total of 27 sessions on the calander for this month

[fast latch]

I love this game and all but seven two plus hour sessions in eight days wouldn’t be fun anymore

[severe rampart]

IIRC it's his passion

[fast latch]

What does IIRC mean?

[severe rampart]

I feel like he's gotten everything about DnD in his noggin

[severe rampart]

If I recall correctly

[crimson gulch]

Every other job I have had is way less fun than running dnd

[fast latch]

Yeah probably

[severe rampart]

Question still stands though, how do you not get burnt out?

[umbral girder]

Learn to switch it up mainly

[crimson gulch]

Running games is my play time after my day of hard work caring for my kids and house and family

[umbral girder]

I got 5 going on and I’m a college student with a job

[jolly hound]

I have the stomach flu any clerics here

[severe rampart]

Insane juggling those

[crimson gulch]

If I dident have these games I would.be burnt out

[severe rampart]

Best we can do is healing word

[fast latch]

Sorcerer main, sorry

[livid tartan]

Hmm

[umbral girder]

2024 DMG made DMing dead easy to prepare and run games for me so it’s not that hard

[hidden spindle]

You need a Chef~ Chicken Soup 🍲

[jolly hound]

Someone casted contagion 💔

[severe rampart]

Do you get paid for those campaigns like Urizt?

[umbral girder]

No all free

[severe rampart]

I see

Might have to check out DM's guide

[umbral girder]

I read the 2014 and 2024 DMGs front to back and it has a lot of useful knowledge

[rough basalt]

We pay him with damage rolls

[severe rampart]

a group I was gonna DM for ghosted me, so...

[fast latch]

Chef is actually a really cool homebrew class I found on Reddit

[severe rampart]

Sucks, I prepared a lot

[fast latch]

Actually it’s technically called Cook

[rough basalt]

Can always use stuff you prep again.

[severe rampart]

Yeah I know

[umbral girder]

And I pay you guys by throwing yall off cliffs from Barbarian Boss fights

[rough basalt]

It does suck tho I'm sorry to hear that

[severe rampart]

Ehh it's fine, I'll polish it

[rough basalt]

Peak

[umbral girder]

That was an amusing encounter

But yeah i make an effort to read the books i buy. And not just the mechanics either.

[crimson gulch]

Reading the books is good for sure

[umbral girder]

Also slows down my spending on a new book

[rough basalt]

I haven't opened a lot of the books I've bought

But the DMG was a front to backer

[crimson gulch]

What new books? We don't have any on the horizon even lol

[rough basalt]

I need this year's book announcements

Come on Martials of the Land

[umbral girder]

As in Newly Purchase books

[crimson gulch]

Ebberon forge of the artificer was a quick read, haven't used any of it yet. Dragons delves has been wonderful though

[umbral girder]

Not newly released.

[rough basalt]

My next group of 5e books to nab are
Eberron: Forge and Ravnica so far

[umbral girder]

Once I finish the D&D books I’m gonna move to those MTG books next I know.

[rough basalt]

Then I'll have all the official books with more player options for 5e

And I'll start collecting the rest of the adventures

[crimson gulch]

Ahh fair

For the longest time I never bought a book till I booked a session with it

[rough basalt]

I just like collecting.

[crimson gulch]

In 2025 though I just finished the collection

[rough basalt]

Been nabbing alt covers when I see them pop up on amazon, for books I don't have anyway. The only two books I'm rebuying are ToA and Phandelver and Below since I don't have physical copies of them

[fossil hollow]

Trying to look for alt cover E:RftLA is so hard, theyre all super expensive 😭

[rough basalt]

My favorite of the alt covers I have is the Sigil box set ones.

[umbral girder]

What’s that?

[fossil hollow]

Oh i messed up the acronym, but its Rising from the Last War

[umbral girder]

Ah got it

[thorn abyss]

Any ya’ll ever heard of dark dungeons?

[fossil hollow]

what

[severe rampart]

Never heard of that

[thorn abyss]

Dark dungeons is a short movie, an adaptation of a comic written by Jack chick. A man who sought to cash in on the DND panic going on at the time

[umbral girder]

Oh yeah I remember hearing about that.

[thorn abyss]

I only mention it cuz of a line that cracks me up for no reason.

“No you could show mercy to your enemy. And all it cost would be your GOLD and your WEAPONS!”

[umbral girder]

The “D&D Panic” is an interesting time in the game’s history

[remote wadi]

I'm finished with the basics for my Sorcadin. Anyone want the link?

[burnt valley]

sure

lemme see

[remote wadi]

By the way, I wanted to ask. Could I get away with using the level 4 feat to get Shield Master? Idk how dependent Sorcadin is on ASIs

[thorn abyss]

Other highlights from that era was a fresh faced Tom hanks going through a psychotic episode

Psychotic as in a break from reality

[blissful ibex]

should be fine; could also go variant human for 2014 rules to snag an extra feat

[remote wadi]

#character-discussion message

[remote wadi]

Already did that. Check link above this message for link to character

[umbral girder]

Oh interesting Death Knights don’t have regional effects

[rough basalt]

Yeah, over time, video games replaced it as the scapegoat for anything under the sun lol

Tho you still hear about people who still believe in it now and then

[stark maple]

the moment i understood the weakness of my flesh it disgusted me

[fossil hollow]

wot

Tiamat, are you chroming yourself up again?

[umbral girder]

Dracolich arc

[fossil hollow]

Now i wanna make a Tiamat Dracolich...

[umbral girder]

Nah there isn’t any phylactery in the multiverse strong enough to contain her soul.

[fossil hollow]

what about an avatar

[grizzled lance]

The moment I understood the limitations of machines i abandoned them

[stark maple]

tiamat already has like 3 avatars

the main her is just in avernus

[fossil hollow]

yee, and im saying drcolich tiamat turns another one of her avatars into her Phylactery

So to get her dracolich form, you need to kill the right avatar

[stark maple]

Dracoliches are generally seen as lesser, corrupted beings by true dragons, an attitude Tiamat—as the supreme goddess of chromatic dragons—would likely hold strongly

[fossil hollow]

thats what would make it interesting

[umbral girder]

Also would be weaker too no doubt

[fossil hollow]

why did this one become a dracolich

[stark maple]

godhood vs lichdom is

[fossil hollow]

I mean, Vlaakith does it

same with Vecna

[umbral girder]

It’s like going from CEO to Cashier

[stark maple]

she already has immortility thats better then being a lich

[umbral girder]

Vlaakith isn’t a god. She is just a lich.

Vecna used his as a stepping stone to get some divinity eventually

[rough basalt]

Tiamat got chromed up choom, she zeroed some poor adventurers so now we gotta flatline some cult of the dragon gonks to prevent them from summoning her.

[stark maple]

dont sneeze at it became a greater god

[burnt valley]

Lichdom better, you aren't burdened with any responsibilities

[fossil hollow]

ok, how do i get Tiamat to not show up as a spammer lmao

[stark maple]

godhood doesnt burden with any either

[umbral girder]

You block Tiamat

[fossil hollow]

Ao be like:

[jovial shadow]

Interesting that Hasbro is going to feature a series on Bulder's Gate 3 on HBO

[umbral girder]

Nah there is

[stark maple]

like what?

[burnt valley]

Yes it does

[fossil hollow]

"No, i gave you a job. You are going to do your job. Thats why you're a god"

[umbral girder]

It’s why Acererak from Greyhawk (not FR) refuses to become a god

There is a lot of upkeep with having followers so you don’t fade from existence

[fossil hollow]

When you become a god, you have to deal with maintaining your portfolio and domain

[umbral girder]

Also becoming a god means other gods are now much more aware and now allowed to kill you

[stark maple]

when your someone like tiamat who is just the god of "evil dragon kind" thats pretty damn easy

[burnt valley]

Lichdom has the freedom of doing whatever tf u want as long as u feed ur souls to ur phylactery

[fossil hollow]

Tiamat has only known godhood

[stark maple]

plus i feel like when you become a god/godlike being people will just worship you IE lady of pain

[fossil hollow]

Born out of Io/Asgorath/whoever

[umbral girder]

Also as a god you gotta be wary of societal changes that can weaken you as well

[burnt valley]

Belief also affects your power

[umbral girder]

Yeah it also comes with the issue of people also have to know you exist too

[stark maple]

yeah deny the fact while a young red dragon si burning down a village

[burnt valley]

Mystaran Immortals do not have this weakness btw

[umbral girder]

Mortal lives are super short and can forget things quick compared to gods

[burnt valley]

lady of pain is not a good example

[umbral girder]

So it’s constant work across the infinite worlds and planes

[fossil hollow]

LoP specifically hates being treated as a god and being wirshipped

[umbral girder]

Just to keep existing

[stark maple]

tiamat is known universally

just like venca

[umbral girder]

Yeah but not multiversal

[stark maple]

i meant that

[umbral girder]

Like Eberron has no clue who those people are. Dark Sun too probably

[burnt valley]

1,000,000 GP bounty on M*stra and they gotta be dead

[fossil hollow]

except in like, Eberron or Krynn

And Vecna is not known on most worlds because his job is a god of secrets

[stark maple]

hes not very good at it then

[umbral girder]

Abeir in the Forgotten Realms has no clue about any gods and it’s an entire Planet

[fossil hollow]

You might be conflicting your knowledge of which worlds Vecna is on with what people know in world

[stark maple]

plus the people in the astral planes are just flat out immortal so would there belief keep a god living forever

[umbral girder]

The astral sea also erases consciousness of people who stay there too long

[fossil hollow]

Knome, why do we no longer need to address you.

[umbral girder]

Also you can still get eaten, stabbed, etc in the Astral Sea too

[fossil hollow]

Astral Dreadnought says hi

[stark maple]

its a battlefield

[umbral girder]

Or sucked in a whirlpool into another plane.

[limber trail]

I misread this and thought you were telling me to leave because you didn’t address me

[burnt valley]

there's also Astral Dreadnoughts

[fossil hollow]

oh lmaooo. Nah i was more referring your small time as The Elephant.

[burnt valley]

Nightmare for anyone who doesn't have a summon with them

[fossil hollow]

a horror for any Astral Projectors

[stark maple]

the summon would be removed wouldnt it?

[limber trail]

Outgrew the room. Was too big a fish for that pond.

[stark maple]

you know anti magic cone

[fossil hollow]

... are elephants fish?

[limber trail]

Yeah you didn’t know?

[stark maple]

no

[burnt valley]

Its suppressed not removed

[tidal ginkgo]

ANYONE WANTING TO JOIN LONG TERM CAMPAIGN DM ME

[stark maple]

pretty sure its removed

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[umbral girder]

Wrong channel. This isn’t for recruitment

[blissful ibex]

Fish are beasts and elephants are beasts so they're obviously the same sort of thing

[fossil hollow]

AMF specifically supresses. As soon as the AMF leaves that area, theyre back

[burnt valley]

Bears are fish

[fossil hollow]

ice bear now has existential crisis

[stark maple]

does that mean a bug is also a fish

[fossil hollow]

Yes. all is fish

[stark maple]

all beast are fish now

[fossil hollow]

I should make a kuo toa god who turns people into fish, but they dont change

[stark maple]

conjure fish

[fossil hollow]

i mean, Trident of Fish Command works on polar bears

[severe rampart]

You mean their mind doesn't change or it's only their mind that changes?

[blissful ibex]

kuo toa god that makes people believe they are fish

[fossil hollow]

no change whatsoever. Just the fact that they turned you into a fish and nothing changed

you have to live with the horror that you were always a fish

[blissful ibex]

immediately loses all of their followers because all the kuo toa become fish /j

[livid owl]

Tiktaalik...

[blissful ibex]

That's not how that works but it would be very funny

[severe rampart]

Do you still have your memories? Cognitive functions?

[stark maple]

huh i guess that pretty cool but still as long as that thing keeps its on a summoned creature its just gone

[limber trail]

Yup

[fossil hollow]

everything is the same. But the realization you were always a fish (since nothing changed)

[true raft]

Who wants to let me in on their campaign!

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[stark maple]

no body

[steady jewel]

Good morning everyone

[stark maple]

doom despair

[livid owl]

You can find DMs by posting an ad in #looking-for-dm , #find-a-game has the instructions on how to do that

[umbral girder]

Fun fact

[blissful ibex]

this also means that all humanoids are goblins

[umbral girder]

Tiamat and Bahamut are fish.

[limber trail]

That’s true

[fossil hollow]

glorious platinum fish, i beseech thee

[limber trail]

Goblins are Fey, not Humanoids

[fossil hollow]

if i fish up bahamut, would he grant me a wish

[stark maple]

im not a fan of games that last less then 3-4 hours tbh

[umbral girder]

Like the IRL myth guys that D&D used. They are giant fish, not dragons.

[fossil hollow]

which means we are all Fey

[limber trail]

One way to find out

[blissful ibex]

MPMM playable goblins are humanoid

[rough basalt]

Not a fan of less than 3 hours either

[limber trail]

You know who else is fey?

[rough basalt]

But I can do 2 hours if the game is designed for it

[stark maple]

not much will get done

[umbral girder]

Nilbog

[limber trail]

The Greaser

[stark maple]

why are new goblins fey anyway

i know they are connected to the fey wild and such

but y fey

[blissful ibex]

because humanoid species can't be objectively evil now or something

[stark maple]

now i need a 5th level spell to hold person

[umbral girder]

They’ve been fey for a while they kinda just finally made it their creature type

A lot of the fairy tale creatures are Fey

[stark maple]

when is dnd gonna make an official race for each creature type

[blissful ibex]

by that logic, shouldn't elves be fey and not humanoid?

[rough basalt]

Creature type changes affects both sides tbh

[umbral girder]

The idea is they are losing some of it yes. Thats why they got fey ancestry.

Like they were fey a long long time ago

[limber trail]

A lot of creature types aren’t really suitable for PCs. Beasts & Monstrosities strike me as the hard ones

[stark maple]

we have Humanoid duh ooze monster aberration

[umbral girder]

Plasmoids are Ooze last I checked

[blissful ibex]

we have an ooze, an aberration, a monstrocity, and two constructs

[stark maple]

we have kinda undeads

sooo many feys too many imo

[umbral girder]

Ah I see playable creature types? Aberrations, Humanoids, Fey, and Constructs so far

[burnt valley]

Ooze would be the best creature type for a race

[livid brook]

im assuming returning weapon doesnt work on arrows

[stark maple]

we already have ooze

[blissful ibex]

thri-kreen is a monstrosity

[umbral girder]

My guess is 2024 is working on expanding it.

[stark maple]

i want to be an undead or a giant or a plant

[burnt valley]

An Ooze race with Dhampir's Bite equivalent, Climbing Speed and Human's "Pick your origin feat" feature

[livid owl]

Carrion from the hit game carrion?

[blissful ibex]

Or a reprint of plasmoid with elf-like variations

[umbral girder]

Always Large PC races are unlikely due to the domino effect size has on characters

[livid owl]

NGL have been tempted to play a plasmoid reflavored to be a horrible glob of flesh and mouths

[umbral girder]

And also the modules have no support to let them into any building and dungeon

[blissful ibex]

Aah voice to text, randomly putting question marks in everything I say

[grizzled lance]

We already can become large temporary or permanently at level 10 with rune knight

[umbral girder]

So a Gibbering Mouther

[umbral girder]

Yeah. Thats why I said Always Large.

[burnt valley]

Yes plus elves with wings

[undone rain]

So what exactly is a hexblood

[umbral girder]

Not “sometimes large”

[umbral girder]

A psuedo Hag.

[blissful ibex]

give us back biblically accurate 2nd edition plasmoid that can have as many arms as you want at a penalty of -1 AC for each XD

[undone rain]

Psuedo?

[livid owl]

Yes but I didn't know Gibbering mouthers existed til now

[remote wadi]

One thing I wish I had irl and as a Ranger in DnD

A pet mimic who likes to be a backpack. Gets full from items without consuming them; and is more than willing to give thieves a comeuppance

[burnt valley]

Did it give you more actions in return too?

[umbral girder]

It’s like one but not actually one. Like how Dhampir aren’t actually vampires and reborn are actually zombies

[grizzled lance]

I don’t see why you’d want more then 4 tbh

[blissful ibex]

a sudo hag, she's got root privelages

[undone rain]

Ahhhh

[blissful ibex]

shields are nice c:

[grizzled lance]

You can only benefit from one shield at a time in any given edition

[blissful ibex]

i know but it's funny
also lore acurate
2e plasmoids love shields and despise wearing armor

[undone rain]

My paladin is armed to the teeth

[umbral girder]

Wellll

[undone rain]

Im talking ARMED

[umbral girder]

Maybe magic shields with extra bonuses?

[pine sundial]

Literally or hypothetical

[grizzled lance]

Nope higher one takes priority

[burnt valley]

Plasmoid with twenty arms and shields

[grizzled lance]

Just like how you can’t stack wraps of unarmed prowess

[undone rain]

One would believe he has daggers in his teeth but no hypothetical

[umbral girder]

Once again not reading it.

The example is

Like +3 shield for AC, Sentinal shield for Initiative bonus, spell guard shield for magic resistance

[grizzled lance]

Not reading what

[undone rain]

5 javelins, greatsword, greatclub, flail, longsword, longbow, 2 daggers

[umbral girder]

Like Magic Shields do more than AC after all.

[grizzled lance]

You can only hold one shield and gain the benefit of one shield

[pine sundial]

Brace teeth set like knuckle dusters but for teeth

[undone rain]

Exactly lol

[umbral girder]

I’ll have to recheck the magic item rule but.

“You gain the Armor Class benefit of a Shield only if you have training with it.”

The shield rule says only the AC bonus

[blissful ibex]

there's a rule that you can also benefit from one type of many items;
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment#MultipleItemsoftheSameKind
though it does not explicitly state shields

[pine sundial]

You know that video of DM that had to get stitches cause a player bit him to prove a point

[blissful ibex]

I know of it, though read it in a post rather than seeinga video

[grizzled lance]

I’m pretty sure shields also apply like you of strap one to one arm and then one to the other I think one takes over the other

[fossil hollow]

only the AC bonus doesnt stack

[grizzled lance]

Alright apparently you can stack with passive bonuses

[pine sundial]

It should work but you need to be strong (high strength stat)

[umbral girder]

The main issue is the rule is stated because you lack the anatomy to do so. Our 4 armed bug race has a lot of arms

[winter thorn]

I just got to thinking; we don't have any dragon spells do we.

[grizzled lance]

Only the main arms can hold the shields as stated

[blissful ibex]

there we go, found it
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/equipment#OneataTime

A creature can wear only one suit of armor at a time and wield only one Shield at a time.

[pine sundial]

High defence low mobility

[winter thorn]

Like dragonborns get breath weapons. And some spells like burning hands can mimic those

[limber trail]

Generally for most classes defence doesn’t come at the cost of mobility (monks aside)

[umbral girder]

Dragon’s breath, Rime’s binding ice, Ashardilon’s Stride, etc we have a few

[undone rain]

Homebrew so you can have 6 shields. 1 on each arm, 1 on each leg, 1 on the torso and 1 on the back

[limber trail]

They call that armour

[undone rain]

Now thats a walking wall

[blissful ibex]

just play tortle at that point XD

[winter thorn]

That's just armor

[grizzled lance]

THE WALL

[undone rain]

No you have armor under it

[turbid vessel]

Tortle: "look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power"

[undone rain]

Armor under it, shield over it

[winter thorn]

Right?

[pine sundial]

You described a turtle

[winter thorn]

I'm playing a fey wanderer tortle who collects wishes

[undone rain]

Tortles are walls ngl

22 ac on my bard tortle😭

BARD. TORTLE

[grizzled lance]

It is 17 + dex

[pine sundial]

You sure he a bard

[umbral girder]

Ah I checked and the secondary arms are likely too weak on the Thri-Kreen based on it’s description

[winter thorn]

Try 24 as a hexblade

[fossil hollow]

Just 17

[grizzled lance]

It is?

[fossil hollow]

it specifically says so

[winter thorn]

Tortle don't add dex

[umbral girder]

Only 24 AC? You like level 4?

[grizzled lance]

Ah you can still use a shield right?

[winter thorn]

Heh, lv1

[fossil hollow]

Natural Armor. Your shell provides you a base AC of 17 (your Dexterity modifier doesn’t affect this number).
You can’t wear light, medium, or heavy armor, but if you are using a shield, you can apply the shield’s bonus as normal.

[grizzled lance]

Hmm

[winter thorn]

Equip a shield. Then cast shield

[fossil hollow]

Reading the feature explains the feature

[grizzled lance]

I prefer thi kreen natural armor tbh

13+ dex and you can give your self advantage on stealth checks

[pine sundial]

Can monk's use shields

[halcyon forum]

not how AC works

[grizzled lance]

Not effectively no

[winter thorn]

Yes

[halcyon forum]

not if they want to use most of their features

[fossil hollow]

they can wear one. They cant use its AC

[winter thorn]

But then they can't add wisdom

[blissful ibex]

+3 full plate, + 3 shield, + 3 defender weapon, and then two AC boosting items of your choice

[fossil hollow]

Monks arent proficient in shields, They dont benefit from them

[grizzled lance]

Exactly

[umbral girder]

Also monks lose their benefits if they use a shield right?

[pine sundial]

Ok

[halcyon forum]

thats not the problem, even if they have proficiency, its a bad idea

[winter thorn]

It takes only one feat or 1 level dip to get

[grizzled lance]

They lose out on there there bonus action unarmed strike too

[umbral girder]

That isn’t a monk feature.

[grizzled lance]

And there unarmed defense

[fossil hollow]

im saying that its not even doable.

@winter thorn then you are effectively classless

[pine sundial]

Ok

[blissful ibex]

all of their bonus action abilities

[winter thorn]

They do, but like. Unarmored defense and unarmored movement are kinda mid

[halcyon forum]

of course its doable. feats and multiclassing exists

[umbral girder]

That’s like saying “a fighter is a spell caster because they can get feats or another class”

[grizzled lance]

That’s a wild statement

[worn lagoon]

it's really not

[grizzled lance]

When you can get a 20 in ac with ability scores alone

[fossil hollow]

then they dont get their monk shit :V

[winter thorn]

No no. Hear me out

[halcyon forum]

yeah, that is the main problem

[umbral girder]

24 base as well in the new rule set

[pine sundial]

What if one uses arm guard style

[blissful ibex]

flurry of blows isn't and you can't flurry if you have a shield on

[halcyon forum]

people have tried heavy armor monk builds, they are barely functional at best

[umbral girder]

You also lose your Martial Arts if you hold a shield

[grizzled lance]

Monks with maul is pretty fun

[winter thorn]

Halfplate starts you at 15 ac. This better than the dex and wisdom modifier added together when using point buy in most cases

[fossil hollow]

how are you getting mauls on a monk? not even Kensei can get Mauls

[blissful ibex]

sorry btw, accidently repplied to the wrong message as chat was going too fast >.>

[umbral girder]

So Monks can’t Punch while wielding a shield or get their bonus action attack.

[fossil hollow]

Ok, then you dont get any of your monk features

[grizzled lance]

Any race that gives you martial profen via dwarf

[halcyon forum]

by the time you typically get half plate, you already have +4 dex and +3 wis

[winter thorn]

Then you add 2 if your dex mod and you already have a higher defence. Then add a shield.

[umbral girder]

Well technically they can punch. But it’s 1+strength mod

[fossil hollow]

Mauls cannot be monk weapons

[grizzled lance]

You can still do your unarmed strikes so

[fossil hollow]

Not with Dedicated weapon, not with Kensei

[winter thorn]

Kensie

[grizzled lance]

Also who said I was playing kensei

[pine sundial]

What are monk subclass

[halcyon forum]

kensei cant do heavy weapons except longbow

[grizzled lance]

Kensei is pretty bad ngl

[fossil hollow]

please read

Each of these weapons can be any simple or martial weapon that lacks the heavy and special properties.

[worn lagoon]

how does your monk not have a +3 to dex and wis

[blissful ibex]

weilding a non monk weapon turns off your martial arts features

[grizzled lance]

Again not using kensei

[halcyon forum]

in 2014 rules, kensei is the second best monk subclass

[winter thorn]

Pointbuy

[umbral girder]

Nope can’t do heavy weapons.

[fossil hollow]

I was never saying you were. Im saying monks cant use them at all

[winter thorn]

Not enough races have dex and wisdom to pump to 16 in both

[blissful ibex]

you can do it with pointbuy or standard array
+2 on the 14 and +1 on the 15

[grizzled lance]

I mean 2014 monk is still bad

[halcyon forum]

Gunks are pretty decent

[fossil hollow]

Tasha exist. and 2024 removed species ASI

[umbral girder]

Nah 2014 Monk is good.

[winter thorn]

If you did, you'd loose con

[umbral girder]

Monsters of the Multiverse also lets you change racial stats too

[halcyon forum]

its trivial to get 16 in both

[winter thorn]

Not to mention the lack of cha or int for saves

[worn lagoon]

racial stats are a myth

[grizzled lance]

If you need a gun to be good then idk what to tell you

[fossil hollow]

youre fine with 14

[halcyon forum]

longbow works the same

[grizzled lance]

Guys Ranger is pretty good cause I found this Glock

[fossil hollow]

thats what proficiency later on is for

ranger always has been good. Not because of guns

[grizzled lance]

There aren’t very many settings where you will just find a fire arm laying around

[fossil hollow]

its almost like the 11 year old meme is just a meme

[worn lagoon]

if you are prioritizing stats you only use for saves over +3ing the stats you use for every feature then you are doing point buy wrong

[halcyon forum]

guns are are barely better than bows in dnd, arguably worse in 2024 rules. maybe you just dont know how these things work?

[grizzled lance]

They are worse

Mainly cause you Won’t find them in MOST SETTINGS

[fossil hollow]

...

[halcyon forum]

I mean, all the big settings have guns

[grizzled lance]

unless the dm adds them

[pine sundial]

If I use a metal ball and throw it would it be considered as a weapon or a tool

[fossil hollow]

this hurts to read

[umbral girder]

Ranger is probably my favorite class due to the tomfoolery I can play with

[burnt valley]

Ranger is really good, they have half of druid's spellcasting which means they get Entangle and Plant Growth

[fossil hollow]

probably would be an improvised weapon, unless you reflavor a light hammer

[grizzled lance]

Spike growth

[halcyon forum]

but again, gunk is just a name. `14 monk archers work just fine with other ranged weapons

[umbral girder]

I love how economical their spell list. Not a burst heavy like Paladin

[grizzled lance]

Pretty sure kensei is mainly about melee weapons no?

[fossil hollow]

if kensei also allowed heavy crossbows, thats what the gunk would be using

[burnt valley]

Melee Monk is bad around the same level as Barbarian and Rogue, Gun Monk is decent

[fossil hollow]

you specifically get one melee, one ranged

[halcyon forum]

not really, they shine the most as archers

[umbral girder]

It has ranged weapon features tied same levels as their melee features

[fossil hollow]

like, dude, please read Kensei

[grizzled lance]

Nah I prefer the jojo monk

[halcyon forum]

then maybe dont comment on how good the subclass is?

[umbral girder]

DnD players not reading happening once again.

[grizzled lance]

I have played it but I hardly do ranged play in dnd

[pine sundial]

Let's say I'm a monk farmer that got drafted to a war and he used a modified farming tool dose his experience as farmer contact as proficiency or does he need daggers proficiency

[fossil hollow]

:|

[fossil hollow]

Monks naturally have proficiency in daggers

[halcyon forum]

monks are already proficient in all of these weapons

[undone rain]

Theres a spell that lets me summon a horse?

[fossil hollow]

Find Steed

[umbral girder]

Find Greater steed for bigger Horse

[fossil hollow]

Phantom Steed too

[grizzled lance]

2014 shadow monk is still a so tragic

[pine sundial]

Or find mount

[fossil hollow]

PWT is great

[pine sundial]

Why

[umbral girder]

At this point it’s bait. I’m gonna block and move on

[fossil hollow]

thats Find Steed

[halcyon forum]

its the strongest monk subclass lol

[undone rain]

i should equip that

[pine sundial]

No it isn't

[umbral girder]

If you are a 2024 Paladin you get it for free and even can cast it without a spell slot.

[fossil hollow]

up to you. Im a fan of find steed, and 2024 paladins always have it at level 5

[grizzled lance]

Hey I can use 2 points of two use the darkness spell that I can’t see in

[fossil hollow]

youre not spamming Darkness. Youre spamming Pass Without Trace

[grizzled lance]

So you blind everyone including yourslef

[undone rain]

Lucky me i am level 5

[fossil hollow]

youre spamming the wrong spell firstly

[umbral girder]

Fun fact, not every spell is for combat.

[pine sundial]

He can what

[pine sundial]

Dare Devil style monk

[undone rain]

Can my steed fight

[fossil hollow]

if youre not mounted on it yes

[halcyon forum]

yes

[grizzled lance]

What is darkness suppose to be used for then.z

[severe rampart]

There was this new guy in a oneshot I was in who thought Dancing Lights could be used to attack

[undone rain]

And can i summon em again if they die

[fossil hollow]

Utility. Blinding enemy spellcasters

[umbral girder]

In 2024 yes, in 2014 a tad more complicated but yes

[fossil hollow]

yes. Just another spell slot.

[vocal owl]

I haven't touched 2024 rules my friends when I first started kept me away from it told me 2014 is better

[grizzled lance]

…

[undone rain]

Lets goooo

[umbral girder]

Magical darkness also snuffs out lights, even magical lights too

[undone rain]

I get attached to animals so

[grizzled lance]

Unless it’s daylight

[umbral girder]

Not simply block, gets rid of them too.

[naive cedar]

Yeah some of the best spells arent specifically the attack ones

[halcyon forum]

I had a shadow monk drop darkness on our group once to negate advantage all the enemies had on us

[pine sundial]

Blind monk with experience in fighting can work with that

[halcyon forum]

even if we couldnt see, it was useful that way

[fossil hollow]

monks dont get blindsight naturally

[umbral girder]

You could probably read the free rules to develop your own opinion on it.

[grizzled lance]

I suppose that could but these all seem very niche

[umbral girder]

Also Spellcaster require to see their target for a lot of spells

[undone rain]

How come dragonborns dont get darkvision

[fossil hollow]

they do in 2024 i thought

[halcyon forum]

well darkness is not the bread and butter spell for shadow monk. its situational

[burnt valley]

abusing PWT in 2014 is peak since Surprise is much stronger

[pine sundial]

I know I mean back story wise it could work

[grizzled lance]

True that

[umbral girder]

Darkness nerfs a lot of enemy spellcasting.

Plus if you are both blind your attacks are neutral, not at disadvantage or advantage

[grizzled lance]

Eldritch sight

[fossil hollow]

needs warlock/feat, not worth investment

[grizzled lance]

Wrong

[umbral girder]

Eldritch sight only gives you Detect Magic

[burnt valley]

Fog Cloud does the same thing but with a 1st level spell, I mean if they have Blindsight then yeah sure

[fossil hollow]

that too

[umbral girder]

Also NPCs don’t get invocations.

[severe rampart]

Devil's Sight you mean?

[grizzled lance]

I meant devilsn

[halcyon forum]

I devils sight only needs the spellcasting feature?

[fossil hollow]

no

just needs Eldritch Adept (bad feat) or lock dip

[umbral girder]

And devils are a third of a single creature type too

[fossil hollow]

on an inherently MAD class

[vocal owl]

Bet I'll check it out

[grizzled lance]

Mask of many faces is a pretty good one

[pine sundial]

Is there anything that gives a kind of passive detection

[fossil hollow]

on a monk? Id rather be a changling

[umbral girder]

Overall it nerfed the super strong stuff and buffed everything else.

[grizzled lance]

Not monk I mean in general

[fossil hollow]

id check out #dnd-newcomers

[fossil hollow]

the convo was about monk :V

[umbral girder]

Or gave a trade off on some stuff too

[halcyon forum]

if you build a character or party around Devils sight and darkness, its a good feat

[umbral girder]

Goal post shifting I see

[fossil hollow]

yeeea, but thats a feat for everyone

[grizzled lance]

Sharpshooter
Lucky
Great weapon fighting

[burnt valley]

Warlocks would rather have Lance of Lethargy, Eldritch Mind or Pact of the Chain/Investment

[halcyon forum]

the combo is really strong, and its got uses for other builds too. its not a bad feat by any means

[grizzled lance]

I think pole arm master is still the same?

[fossil hollow]

right, but others got more important feats to get

[umbral girder]

Yeah now Lucky can have up to 6 (7 with magic items) points now and can be gained at level 1 by any build now

[fossil hollow]

... 67

[halcyon forum]

I would argue it can fit on most builds if you have vhuman/CL

[grizzled lance]

Still it only grants advantage now :(

[halcyon forum]

especially if you build around it

[umbral girder]

Yeah now it isn’t locked to a race.

[fossil hollow]

ok, this is where i disagree with ye omegon, but i dont wanna argue against EAdept rn

[vocal owl]

Force cage into faithful hound needs nerfed hopefully they did i was destroying a lot of my dms bosses with that

[grizzled lance]

Alert was such an amazing feat

[umbral girder]

Yep! Force cage is concentration now

[fossil hollow]

... that sounds like a encounter building issue

[grizzled lance]

I’m so sad it got nerfed

[burnt valley]

its still is wdym

[fossil hollow]

nerfed? the initiative switch makes up for the lower bonus at lower levels

[grizzled lance]

It was greater then it once was

[burnt valley]

thankfully faithful hound is non conc

[umbral girder]

Now Alert can also give up to a +6 (7 with an item) bonus to Initative

[fossil hollow]

i hate this

[grizzled lance]

I do like that they buffed healer

[umbral girder]

Nah healer got nerfed hard. Understandably so. But sad

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but enemies also didn’t gain advantage as a result of being unseen by you

[umbral girder]

Same with Durable too. Durable was so good it became part of an Epic boon

[halcyon forum]

yeah using hit dice is doodoo

[umbral girder]

Old Healer was “you got 10 healing potions per kit now”

[fossil hollow]

thems my Bloodshed Greatsword Dice! Not Healer dice!

[grizzled lance]

War caster got buffed weirdly enough

By accidental imo

[burnt valley]

Classic Wizard upscale

[halcyon forum]

they easily could have turned Warcaster into two decent feats

the fact that one feat gives all that is dumb

[grizzled lance]

Since you can now target allies with “opportunity attacks”

[burnt valley]

That would just kill it

[grizzled lance]

Switch that out with a heal or haste spell and boom

[worn lagoon]

can't you also get one of those fighting styles that give you blindsight or am i misremembering what blindsight does

[fossil hollow]

its only 10 ft

[worn lagoon]

are your fists longer than 10ft

[crimson gulch]

Nah opportunity attacks are still just vs enemy's that's the first line undet opprotunity attacks

[fossil hollow]

mine are

[halcyon forum]

+1 and advantage on conc saves is worth a feat.

1+ and using spells as opportunity attacks is a bit more niche but still okay

[grizzled lance]

Yea I’m a bug bear

[umbral girder]

Bugbear moment

[fossil hollow]

Elements/Astral Self moment

[worn lagoon]

fair enough, not a race i'll ever touch

[burnt valley]

Oh thats what u meant, i take that back

[grizzled lance]

You can still cast a spell on ally leaving your reach now

So it’s not as niche anymore

[halcyon forum]

assuming your DM allows that interaction

[burnt valley]

advantage on conc spells > spells as opportunity attacks

so nothing changed 👍

[grizzled lance]

That’s just new rules at written but ok

[worn lagoon]

needing war caster to cast while holding a shield is weird

its basically caster tax if you want a high ac non-warlock caster

[grizzled lance]

In 2024 D&D rules, you can target an ally with an opportunity attack because the rules now say "a creature" instead of "hostile creature".

[halcyon forum]

it would still be more balanced, and make the warlock invocation more attractive

[halcyon forum]

its also one of those RAW things that are unlikely to be allowed at most tables

[grizzled lance]

They literally buffed war caster because of the opportunity attack change and this was intended as seen in the sage advice

[halcyon forum]

some RAW gets banned for sanity reasons by most

[worn lagoon]

that is an assumption

[burnt valley]

its one of the two feat tax they need, its either moderately armoured or res:con

[halcyon forum]

one I am very confident in

[grizzled lance]

I wouldn’t ban it it’s cool af

[fossil hollow]

just take a look at the "Tech" #optimization comes to at times...

[worn lagoon]

i'll just dip cleric tbh

[grizzled lance]

Gives you the ability to use more action ecomany

[halcyon forum]

exactly, if its "tech", you cant assume it will fly. you got to negotiate with the DM first

[grizzled lance]

It’s not really a “tech” it’s just how the rule is written

[burnt valley]

This is a common reaction to unintended rules interactions

[fossil hollow]

case in point

[halcyon forum]

it is also unintended

[fossil hollow]

anyway. im invoking Good Faith Rulings and dipping for now

[grizzled lance]

Plus the ally has to use there movement and it can’t be forced moment

• When a creature provokes an Opportunity Attack from you by leaving your reach, you can take a Reaction to cast a spell at the creature rather than making an Opportunity Attack. The spell must have a casting time of one action and must target only that creature*
  Literally how is this unintentional

[marble lion]

Because its called attack

The intent is to let casters do relevant stuff where they usually cant because their weapon attacks are bad

The result is that they can do extra stuff

Id personally rule it as not possible because opportunity attacks are meant to represent you punishing someones back turnt

[eager marsh]

I personally think the change to the use of 'attack of oppurtunity' terms across features and feats was a bad thing since making them all more restrictive was a downgrade

[marble lion]

Buffing your ally is not punishing them dropping guard

Is your ally guarding against your buffs?

Why can you only buff your ally when he doesnt use disengage?

[eager marsh]

not being able to use the warcaster feature in conjunction with PaM or sentinel or other features anymore feels worse imo

[marble lion]

As soon as you look into the logic of opportunity attacks, it makes no sense to buff allies with warcaster

Rules allow it though i guess

I think the disengage thing proves its not intended though
Why would an ally need to be "wide open" for you to buff him?

[halcyon forum]

"combat is for enemies" to quote the designers

[grizzled lance]

I doesn’t say “hostile creatures through”

[marble lion]

I just said its allowed

[halcyon forum]

they literally did an interview where they confirmed that it works RAW but was not intended

[grizzled lance]

Why does it say it does in sage advice

[halcyon forum]

sage advice says opportunity attacks work on allies?

[marble lion]

Could you address my genius point that im really proud of

[grizzled lance]

No

[marble lion]

And i worked so hard on it

[fiery perch]

The rules for scribing a spell scroll in 2024 state that you either need proficiency with arcana OR calligrapher's tools

let's assume your DM doesn't do the optional rule of spending downtime to gain proficiency with tools / weapons / armor

and you want to cast a level 5 spell but it's not on your spell list but on your friend's spell list (or another ally who can help you) but that person does not have arcana or calligrapher's tool proficiency, you can scribe borrowed knowledge spell scrolls to give to them which gives them arcana proficiency for 1 hour

this is DM dependent but for you specefically if you are a DM would you require them to maintain the arcana proficiency for the entire 4 workweeks they work or just at the end when they finish? (let me know if there is a rule to answer this question)

[grizzled lance]

I think 2024 was trying to hear away from that sort of thing

[marble lion]

Ok but the disengage thing

Your allies dodge buffs?

[grizzled lance]

I suppose so

[marble lion]

Seems unintentional to me

If they made it so disengage only prevented enemy attacks, id be with you

Right now its still obvious that OA are meant to punish unguarded retreat

[halcyon forum]

there is also the text preceding the actual rules on opportunity attacks

Combatants watch for **enemies **to drop their guard. If you move heedlessly past your foes, you put yourself in **danger **by provoking an Opportunity Attack.

[marble lion]

Or reckless pushing through lines

[marble lion]

And i guess this spells out my sentiment

[grizzled lance]

Again that sort of language isn’t used in 2024

[halcyon forum]

that is a quote from 2024 🤣

[marble lion]

All the eggs are in the basket now

[grizzled lance]

I still think it’s pretty intentional cause why does it say “creature” instead of “hostile creature”

[halcyon forum]

because hostile is used elsewhere for a specific purpose

and the designers wanted to give players more agency in murky situations

[grizzled lance]

That makes no sense to me

Just make say “foe” or “enemy”

[halcyon forum]

the intention was to let players decide who is deserving of an opportunity attack in any given situation, since terms like foe, enemy, or hostile can be sort of murky and in DM control

[grizzled lance]

Literally how

[halcyon forum]

the unintended side effect was that you can use it on allies to buff them

[grizzled lance]

Hostile is pretty cut n dry

[marble lion]

Because players can attack nonhostiles

[halcyon forum]

someone might have acted all nice around you even if they had ill intentions. or maybe someone was acting tough in your face but means well

[marble lion]

Yup

Alliances are a dynamic thing

[grizzled lance]

The rule make it pretty clear that in combat it’s either allies neutrals and hostile a

[marble lion]

Yeah

[halcyon forum]

or maybe someone is charmed by the enemy and attacking them could break the charm?

[marble lion]

And you can attack all 3 kinds

[halcyon forum]

there are countless scenarios

[marble lion]

You can keep wanting to do it, its RAW

[grizzled lance]

Hostile

[marble lion]

Just be aware plenty of DMs may think like me

[grizzled lance]

This is why I hate WOTC for reducing word count everywhere they could

[halcyon forum]

is your friend hostile to you if they are charmed? in some cases yes, in others no

[burnt valley]

why do ppl think frontlining exists in 5e? cant the enemies just move past them

[grizzled lance]

Depends on the spell/ability used

[marble lion]

Its simple
Player freedom needs you to be able to hit anyone

Dont get hung up on the charm example

[halcyon forum]

exactly

[grizzled lance]

What if I consider everyone my enemy

[marble lion]

If i wanna hit my ally in a betrayal

Thats allowed in rules

[halcyon forum]

you are free to find out the consequences in this social activity we call playing dnd

[marble lion]

The hostile distinction is completely irrelevant to the topic

Its about opportunity attack needing lowered guard

Its an aggressive action taken against someone who left himself open

[halcyon forum]

but the whole point is that it doesnt matter. you can attack everyone you deem worthy of an opportunity attack to make these debates at the table a thing of the past

that is the intention of the rule

[grizzled lance]

Clearly 2024 just made it worse

[halcyon forum]

I dont see how

[marble lion]

It puts it in, word for word

Youre just ignoring it apparently

[grizzled lance]

Raw vs Rui

[marble lion]

Omegon posted a text stating the intent clearly

I think what a table does with that is then its choice

[halcyon forum]

the devs always had a "rulings, not rules" philosophy for 5e, that hasnt really changed for the most part, for better or worse

[grizzled lance]

At the end of the day it’s up to the dm type of thing I guess

[marble lion]

Yeah

[grizzled lance]

“I cast haste on the enemy”

[west basalt]

Hey is there anyone that can get on voice chat with me? I’m dming for the first time ever, with first time players. I’m having trouble with the maps.

[grizzled lance]

Guys where can I yap about pugilist

[halcyon forum]

#third-party

[grizzled lance]

I hope Tasha s and Xanther’s get updated ranger needs it

[marble lion]

Uhoh

[halcyon forum]

uhh, I dont think will see a ranger update anytime soon lol

at best we get better subclasses

[hot marlin]

Of course they can, but it does not mean frontlining does not exist. It's not a matter of blocking the path, even though sometimes the terrain may actually allow a dedicated fighter, barbarian or paladin to block the way. It means being the character who goes on the frontline, ahead of the rest of the team, in the middle of the enemy lines. As opposed to party members who prefer being a reasonable distance away

[worn lagoon]

to me, ranger is just spike growth martial

[grizzled lance]

New ranger is somehow worse then old

[halcyon forum]

ehh, I would say its a sidegrade

[worn lagoon]

and that's good enough, spike goat

if nobody is around to shill spike growth it means i'm dead

[grizzled lance]

It goes to deep into “hunter’s mark” which is still con for whatever reason

Meaning you can’t use any of your better spells

“Look at this class with all this utility”
2024 throws that out the window

[worn lagoon]

oh god

[burnt valley]

Hunter's Mark doesn't exist, its a propaganda made by WOTC to make people think Rangers are bad

[worn lagoon]

i just checked it out for the first time, what the hell are those high-level features
most boring capstone feature of all time??

[grizzled lance]

1d10 hunters mark!!

[burnt valley]

Oh yeah uhh we might have to move to #homebrew or #third-party if we are discussing H*nter's Mark

[grizzled lance]

Gotta be the worse capstone ability of all time

[marble lion]

Ppl need to stop trashing ranger for hunters mark

[worn lagoon]

HAHAAHA

[grizzled lance]

It’s not even that good of a spell..

[marble lion]

So?

[worn lagoon]

wow i hate what they did to gloomstalker

[burnt valley]

But there aren't any abilities that force enemies to focus on them, if they do exist, its just very weak or unreliable

[marble lion]

The capstone is bad though i agree

[grizzled lance]

When your entire class is focused on one spell it better be a pretty good spell gang

[west basalt]

Hey new group and new dm here. I bought some custom minis already and now am having some trouble figuring out how to set up the maps. Like I could draw it all but that seems like a lot of work for a map I’ll just use once(especially since it’s on a 1 inch grid. I was thinking I could buy some terrain bundles. Idk how much that would cost, don’t know which to buy, don’t know how to handle fog of war. I also saw I could buy a cheap tv for $150 and use that. I just need help.

[crystal latch]

Hunter's Mark has 0 value, not negative value
Not casting it solves the issue of it being a waste of your action economy and concentration
2024 took a spell which shouldn't exist and wasted some core features on it, more importantly the strengths of 2014 ranger were nerfed

[west basalt]

I’m going to be playing lost mines of phandelver.

[grizzled lance]

^^^^

[crystal latch]

A class is at minimum the sum of its strengths, bad features don't bring it down below that level unless they're unconditional penalties

[marble lion]

Exactly

Though the capstone does rely on it so thats bad

[grizzled lance]

But a class shoudnt have to relay on a spell to be good

[crystal latch]

2014 ranger was strong because of a few good subclasses (mainly gloom), Crossbow Expert + Sharpshooter and good spells on the ranger spell list
This was a really good chassis

[grizzled lance]

Especially there capstone

[crystal latch]

Tbf most capstones are quite mediocre

[grizzled lance]

Yeah but most are decent at least

[crystal latch]

Ranger's capstone is on the lower end

[grizzled lance]

Definitely

[worn lagoon]

recovering 4 spell slots in a minute and such are not bad

[halcyon forum]

even the worse capstone of other classes are better than ranger

[crystal latch]

Every capstone is really just an incentive to multiclass tbh

[grizzled lance]

Articifter got a pretty decent capstone as well as other options in the 3rd party book

[halcyon forum]

nah, Monk, Barbarian, Paladin, Artificer and fighter are hard to give up

Cleric is great too

[grizzled lance]

Monk as well be a Greek god in 2024