dnd-discussion

[long belfry]

The only reason I'm not saying beasthide immediately is paladin AC is already kind of bonkers and scaling temporary hit points seems kind of unfair lol

[restive blade]

go unfair

[inner silo]

If battle master is taken, what's the most fun big damage martial in your opinion?

[restive blade]

make your paladin a demi god kekw

[inner silo]

Paladin is taken too

[glossy narwhal]

I think the best way to describe my character is a Warlock/Sorcerer/ Bladesinger

[old sluice]

Ranger

[glass granite]

MONK

Monk sounds perfect

[inner silo]

Which subclass for eich?

[glass granite]

Hmmm

[old sluice]

Drakewarden, swarmkeeper, gloomstalker for ranger.

[ripe shale]

So... how often does a DM let you murder your party member?

[glass granite]

VERY rarely

[old sluice]

For monk, open hand, kensei, shadow.

[long belfry]

Drunken master is pretty neat

[old sluice]

Don't need the DM's permission!

[glass granite]

I’d add elemental Warrior on that

[ripe shale]

Music to my ears.

[sick pumice]

My dm told me if I make him mad he will cast "Rock falls, your dead"

[inner silo]

2024 btw

[glass granite]

No 2014 subclasses?

[inner silo]

Nope

[glass granite]

Then I recommend shadow, open hand or elemental Warrior for monk

[old sluice]

To answer the question seriously: Killing party members depends on the circumstances. You can't be blamed for killing a mind controlled PC if breaking the mind control was not an option at the time.

[glass granite]

Actually mercy is bonkers too
Literally any if the 2024 ones

[twin trench]

Hi

[old sluice]

In the same way, a betrayal storyline or a "fellowship breaking" story justifies the party turning against each other

[inner silo]

Mercy is the healing one correct?

[glass granite]

Well, hands of harm too, but yes they can heal

[oak shoal]

If someone doesn't allow 2014 that are also in 2024 5e into there games they should have tomatoes thrown at them

[inner silo]

You mean the unearthed arcana 2024 ones?

[oak shoal]

Yeah

[inner silo]

I see. And the open hand is the most punchy one?

[twin trench]

Do you guys do DND campaigns here??

[inner silo]

They're not playtested so there could be some issues stemming from playing them no?

[old sluice]

No campaigns are hosted on this server but there is #find-a-game

[glass granite]

All monks punch a lot, open hand just buffs all your focus features and monk stuff.

The most punchy one is arguably Astral Self tbh

[old sluice]

Open hand basically just takes the basic monk and cranks it up.

It does not really change the playstyle.

[inner silo]

I see, so they're the monk monk? Like the hunter being the ranger ranger?

[glass granite]

Yup!

[inner silo]

Is that the jojo monk?

[glass granite]

Yup

[old sluice]

A term sometimes used for subclasses is "class +" and "anti-class"

[inner silo]

Is it decent?

[inner silo]

Alrighty

[glass granite]

Yup!

[old sluice]

A class+ is a subclass that does not change the mechanics or the playstyle. Just takes the same playstyle as the basic class and cranks it up. An anti-class is a subclass that goes against the design of the basic class

[oak shoal]

Way of whipass

[inner silo]

I'll ask my dm if they'd allow it then. Playing a jojo character sounds like absolute cinema

[knotty basin]

Kensei is kind of the default

[inner silo]

Oki

@old sluice thanks for explaining!

[glass granite]

Class + is like
Hunter, Eloquence Bard, Open Hand
Anti-class would be Kensei…

[inner silo]

What about beastmaster?

[old sluice]

It is of course a spectrum, not categories.

But monk is generally an unarmed combattant that does not rely on magical weapons. And then there's kensei.

[oak shoal]

Kensei sounds badass

[old sluice]

Sorcerer is generally a controlled caster all about using a limited selection of spells but tweaking them for precision. And then there's wild magic

[oak shoal]

Wild magic my beloved

[inner silo]

Oki, i think i get it

[ripe shale]

If I give myself a major weakness but the plan is to have my build have a major payoff... A dm got me right?

[inner silo]

That's the one I'm playing right now

[glass granite]

I think a classic anti-class is oathbreaker

[inner silo]

Depends on the dm

[glass granite]

Actually? No

[oak shoal]

Flavor wise yeah, but in play style ehhhhh sorta

[glass granite]

Is there a more fitting one?

[ripe shale]

dang

[oak shoal]

Paladins don't exactly have an anti subclass

That I'm aware of

[glass granite]

Maybe noble genie cuz they can go unarmoured? Idk tbh

[oak shoal]

Dude I forgot about that new one

Let me go check it out

[inner silo]

Feywanderer are pretty anti-class i think

[solar crow]

Halfway through my first ever campaign and it's been an absolute blast I've had so much fun and I'm glad I tried it out

[old sluice]

To know if something is an anti-class or a class +, there is a simple formula.

Say what the class is usually about. And see if the subclass clashes or enhances it.

[oak shoal]

Ranger gotta be one of the hardest to balance simply because of the features it gives are so specific but that's what makes it special and we don't wanna take that away

[timber turtle]

how many funny gremlin creatures are there you can play

[glass granite]

“Yes”

[old sluice]

None

[oak shoal]

Goblin of course

[timber turtle]

I only know kobold and goblin

[oak shoal]

Be an evil gnome

[woven flint]

Anything can be a funny gremlin depending on how you play it

[timber turtle]

but gremlin definition is a small monster right?

[normal junco]

Paladin with the oath of the Ashen Base would be pretty much un-paladin in behaviour. but that's 3rd party. and a walking warcrime(s).

[old sluice]

Everyone is small compared to someone else

[woven flint]

Gremlins are mostly mischievous beings.

Anyone can be a mischievous being

Hence why anyone can be a gremlin

[hushed mason]

That's flawed logic.

All mischievous beings are not gremlins.

[glass granite]

Are you a gremlin?

[woven flint]

It's not something I'm willing to argue or be pedantic about, to be completely honest

There's such thing as "Gremlin energy"

[woven flint]

Perhaps...

[oak shoal]

Something I don't like is when someone takes a race and throws out the culture of the race for their own idea. As much as I love creativity it sucks when an entire race culture gets ignored because they want the appearance of the race and not the things that come along

[glass granite]

Well, I think it’s fine if they can justify it

[woven flint]

I hate when people play tabaxi like housecats /lh

[oak shoal]

Like no Becky Goliaths are usually not chaotic

[oak shoal]

THIS

[normal junco]

thats why i really like Kobold Press' Lineage and Heritage system. combine that with Background and you have nature-nurture-past choices.

but it detaches where a character grew up from their biology

[glass granite]

Maybe they dislike the societal shackles that their kin put on them, and go out into the world to carve a path that is truly their’s
Maybe they were raised in isolation, and so aren’t familiar with their species’ customs

[woven flint]

I also hate that when I play Tabaxi, that's the instant assumption of how it'll be played people make when I wanna play one
Most of my tabaxi are normal people that are just anthropomorphic felines, just very nature connected and spiritual

[oak shoal]

Then that's a part of there character and it justifies it

[glass granite]

Hence my statement

[oak shoal]

What urks me is when they want a human with a different face plastered on it

[hushed mason]

But anyone raised by humans could be that...

[burnt cave]

this is true

[woven flint]

Hello, Goblin creature

[oak shoal]

Then it's a part of their character and it justifies it

[burnt cave]

Oi!

[hushed mason]

Gremlins are legit 2e and 4e creatures. 🙂

[woven flint]

You're my friend now

[oak shoal]

2e mentioned

[woven flint]

Any creature is friend shaped

[burnt cave]

Well that was fast

[oak shoal]

Shout out wizards of the coast for throwing out badass dragons ideas in favor of the 5e chromatic and metallic system (and gem)

[woven flint]

Indeed, I'm a very friendly fellow!
Most of the time

[hushed mason]

How is the 5e dragon system different?

[oak shoal]

Throwing away cool stuff that added onto those systems like obsidian dragon and hag dragons and vampire dragons.

[atomic kayak]

A) thats not a 5e thing B) 5e... has plenty of non metallic/chromatic/gem dragons

[hushed mason]

What edition are those from?

[meager fractal]

Orium Dragons were pretty cool

[oak shoal]

Platinum Dragons, Steel Dragons, Electrum Dragons, Mercury Dragons

Yellow Dragons, Orange Dragons, Pink Dragons, Original Purple Dragons

Obsidian Dragons, Jacinth Dragons, Amber Dragons, Pearl Dragons

All the Lung Dragons

All the Ferrous Dragons: Iron Dragons, Chromium Dragons, Titanium Dragons, Cobalt Dragons, Nickle Dragons

All the Planar Dragons: Adamantine Dragons, Battle Dragons, Radiant Dragons, Styx Dragons, Oceanus Dragons , Howling Dragons, Mirage Dragons, Pyroclastic Dragons

Force Dragons and Prismatic Dragons

The Catastrophic Dragons: Blizzard Dragons, Earthquake Dragons and Volcanic Dragons

[hushed mason]

Draconomicon is such a pretty book. 🙂

[woven flint]

Deep Dragons!
Don't forget them!!!

[atomic kayak]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to claim with that list

[oak shoal]

Dragons that got left out

[meager fractal]

hasn't there been like 5 draconomicons

[woven flint]

Ah

[old sluice]

I am still mad that metallic dragons contain both dragons named after pure metals and dragons named after alloys.

[meager fractal]

1 in 3.x, 2 in 4e, 1 in 5e (if you count Fizbans, which you SHOULD)

4 ig

[atomic kayak]

They weren't "thrown out" - they just haven't been (re)printed in 5e

Not to mention a few of them have been mentioned in 5e (like Steel)

[normal junco]

5e does have a Blueberry Dragon.

[atomic kayak]

Also I'll be honest a lot of them... never really had much if any information about them anyways even in older editions.

[atomic kayak]

not exactly.

Theres an extra-life thing made by kids that has a blueberry dragon

[old sluice]

And hey, we have plenty of dragons that are outside the metallic-gem-chromatic system

Like Moonstone, which is basically the feywilds dragon.

[atomic kayak]

But yea, not thrown out like the original claim.

[old sluice]

Moreover the idea developped in Fizban's is that dragons are of the material plane. Therefore dragons from outside it are descended from dragons that have been warped beyond their original form

[atomic kayak]

DnD has always centered around the concept of Metallic and Chromatic (and a close secondary of Gem) dragons first and foremost. That is also not a 5e thing, also unlike the original claim.

[old sluice]

It's a clean-up that still allows for variety but keeps true that the original forms of dragons are metallic, gems and chromatics. And that every dragon outside those categories is the product of something warping an original

[atomic kayak]

Especially when half the dragons you say they ""threw out"" are literally chromatic, metallic, and gem dragons

[hushed mason]

rawr

[woven flint]

Durngnz n Dergons

[normal junco]

pick a monster and run a mock combat between your character and the monster

you can do that with dice and a piece of paper

[hushed mason]

There's a section of channels called "Find a Game". Scroll to the bottom of the channel list, and you'll find them.

[meager fractal]

Styx Dragons look kinda cool

[umbral girder]

People getting needlessly mad WOTC didn’t reprint 1000+ books worth of content and claim “they threw them out!!” Again I see.

[old sluice]

Look on the bright side

Nobody is mad that WOTC "threw out" the truenamer

[next sky]

Stranger things brought me here :/

[elder marten]

Damn

[hushed mason]

I'm watchin X-Files at the moment. 😉

[atomic kayak]

I have bad news

[next sky]

Cool

[old sluice]

Damn it

[burnt cave]

Who knew you could make so many friends by just being a plain old goblin

[old sluice]

It never fails, every time a new season of Stranger Things come out, the player base increases

At this point WOTC should be paying Netflix.

[stoic haven]

I almost finished my Fey Wanderer Ranger, just to look back through Rangers in 2014 and see their spellcasting differs from Paladin, and they aren't rest casters?!

[woven flint]

What?

[glacial pulsar]

Wdym they aren't rest casters? You can rest cast with rangers

[stoic haven]

2014 nope, you are locked in

Paladins 2014 can switch out spells on a LR

And they didnt get a spellcasting focus until Tasha's

[atomic kayak]

Thats not the usual thing people are referring to when they say rest casting, the term you want is prep caster

[stoic haven]

Ah, my mistake

[glacial pulsar]

Oh you mean swapping spells
Rest Casting is where a spellcaster uses any leftover spell slots from the previous day to cast long-duration spells (like Mage Armor, Aid, or Death Ward)

[stoic haven]

Ah, ok

But yes, I was under the assumption that they were prep casters like Paladins

And they only learn 11 spells X_X

[old sluice]

Which is a shame considering how good their spell list is

[crimson gulch]

that seems a bit bloated, but feel free to use those old options too, i put a yellow dragon in the abyyss once

[knotty basin]

Should I homebrew some breath of the wild statblocks just for funsies?

[hushed mason]

Well, I have just finished laying out all the maps and tokens for the adventure I'm running. Yay.

[vague jolt]

Are familiars able to be any type of creature or animal

[crimson gulch]

There's a list of examples, and any cr 0 beast could be suitable with dm appeoval

[knotty basin]

Any CR 0 beast

[vague jolt]

Thank you I've been trying to make something resembling the shikigami from jjk and this should work.

[glossy otter]

bro, new dnd game got announced

[slender mason]

"wait is that Pact of the Blade"

Warlocks of the coast let's go

Tricia Helfer might sell me on it

[buoyant oar]

Wonder what setting it will use.

[glossy otter]

I'd figure faerun due to it being so popular with stuff like BG3

[buoyant oar]

WARLOCK is an original, third-person, single-player action-adventure game. It takes place in a dark fantasy open world inspired by DUNGEONS & DRAGONS. Developed by Invoke Studios, the game places players in the role of Kaatri, a veteran warrior who makes a pact to wield otherworldly magic against dark powers. WARLOCK is currently in development for PC, PlayStation 5 and Xbox.

Might be its own thing. WotC has teased a new setting lightly for a long time

[dense nacelle]

New DnD video game, wonder what its gameplay is gonna be like

[snow agate]

lmao

[glass granite]

Are we gonna get one for each class?

[snow agate]

for sure

[buoyant oar]

See you all in 35 years

[slender mason]

Fighter isn't as strong a title tbf

[glass granite]

Make it 40

[slender mason]

Rogue kinda already exists

[glass granite]

Neither is “Monk” tbh

[old sluice]

And calling a game "Barbarian" is just begging for a lawsuit

[blissful dragon]

i remember a streamer i watched play a game by former Sierra Entertainment people called Hero U rogue redemption where the mc the premise was their is university where adventurers learn to be their arch type and the main char is put in the rogue track after being given a offer of go to uni or jail by the headmaster

[sonic quiver]

we'll have all the classes by D&D's 100th anniversary 😛

[blissful dragon]

not sure if their ever did but i heard they planned to do a paladin and some other class of hero for follow up games

[slender mason]

going for subclass names could help some of them tbf

Oath of Devotion, Warrior of the Open Hand

Thief and Assassin are kinda taken

[sonic quiver]

okay so which subclasses would make good video game titles

[glass granite]

Eldritch Knight ain’t bad

[old sluice]

Every paladin oath

[blissful dragon]

path of the muscle wizard

[glass granite]

Heck, oathbreaker could be very cool if done right

[blissful dragon]

could be a comdey film

[old sluice]

Drakewarden is an easy one. But with that title I expect a cheap Drakenguard clone but without the disturbing plot

Open Hand is easy. Mercy could be a title too.

[fickle heart]

Thief, ez

[crimson gulch]

Scribes, its a learn to type program

[glass granite]

College of Creation could be interesting

Or College of Spirits

[old sluice]

"Circle of the Moon"... I could imagine some sort of immersive sim with an intricate magic system and a mystery plot

[snow zephyr]

Divine Soul, tempest rage, totem warrior, drunken master, gloomstalker, the list goes on

[old sluice]

Gloomstalker would likely have a very edgy 90s antihero main character

[glossy otter]

ngl I thought the divinity game was going to be a dnd game

[hot reef]

Cartographer

[remote wadi]

I personally just like Gloomstalker both for the possible ascetics and because getting Wisdom modifier on initiative is really good

[old sluice]

Which Divinity game?

[lean wigeon]

Larian is making a new Divinity game

[sleek cloud]

WHAT

[remote wadi]

Combine it with alert, and that means it's really easy to get 14 or 15 bare minimum for initiative

[lean wigeon]

yeah
it was shown in TGA

no half life 3 announcement yet btw

[buoyant oar]

Divinity Trailer went hard. Glad they dropped Original Sin subtitle though.

[sonic quiver]

general TGA talk can happen in #non-dnd-topics, just a heads up

[sleek cloud]

To the earlier question though, Oath of Conquest

[old sluice]

If I see "Oath of Conquest", I'm expecting a strategy game. Either more like a Total War or more like an RTS.

But probably closer to a Total War game.

[sleek cloud]

I could see it

[crimson gulch]

Castlevaiia had this in a titel before

[sleek cloud]

Oh oh,how bout this one,

Thief

[old sluice]

Too late, that joke was already done

[sleek cloud]

Aw man

You win this time apparently, tamms

[timid anvil]

Oathbreaker would make for a killer D&D Doomlike title

[sleek cloud]

I’d play it

[old sluice]

Just remembered... Some time ago I remember coming across rules for torture and other methods of interrogations that had a trick in it. It gave the victim a bonus on their deception check to fool the interrogator.

The idea being that those rules were made with the knowledge that "enhanced interrogation" does not work and the belief that they do actually helps the victim lie credibly

I should try to find those rules

[undone fable]

Oathbreaker is a nice doomlike dnd game

[glass granite]

Two people said that before you Enid…

[west sail]

A d&d campaign with cute animals as the characters

[lean wigeon]

redwall

[tribal mesa]

Do we think its warlock of a Raven Queen? Hexblade subclass maybe?

[undone fable]

What? they did?

great minds think alike ig. Dnd is awesome

[glass granite]

One of them was me (I just said it’d be a cool name) one was Anoth True Strike Enjoyer #dnd-discussion message

[glass granite]

Glad we can agree!

[undone fable]

like... Oathbreaker: One Man's glory!

it could be a great way to introduce dnd to a lot of video games

[glass granite]

Oathbreaker: Apostate Rising
Idk, not good at naming stuff

[old sluice]

So what would the plot be?

A paladin who broke their oath in order to summon demons and take over the country is currently being imprisoned. The game starts when you're given an opportunity to escape from prison by a demon you had made a deal with during the whole "conquer the world" phase...

Escape the prison, your goal is to get your stuff back and start conquering again... At the end you either die stopping the demon who had manipulated you or you are imprisoned again, this time in the abyss?...

[slender mason]

press R2 to Eldritch Blast

I wonder if Pact of the Blade will be forced on you based on the trailer/look or if you'll be able to choose invocations etc

[undone fable]

I love that tbh. both sound great

[atomic kayak]

I'll be honest I don't think the trailer is really indicative of much if any game mechanics

[long belfry]

Trying to start a character at level 3 is wack I keep thinking I'm forgetting to add something

Race race subtype class class subtype fighting style and/or spells character background

[humble cairn]

Probably the most thorough way is to make a level 1 character and then add levels.

[mystic shuttle]

What’s the upper size limit on the for medium creatures and the lower size limit of large creatures? I know they overlap a little bit

[marble lion]

I dont think they actually overlap

Medium is 5ft square

Large 10ft square

Height i dont think has specified limits

[slender mason]

pretty sure you're meant to do it this way

otherwise you have more level 2 spells than intended

(doesn't really matter if you're Cleric or Druid)

[dusky owl]

Might be a dumb question but are yellow tieflings not raw? A friend invited me to play in a campaign and I made a yellow tiefling, and the DM told me that he’s not allowing homebrew (which is fine) and that I have to change my tiefling to be red or purple. Which isn’t a big deal but I find a little strange?

Been playing dnd for a hot minute and I’ve never heard that one before

[hidden spindle]

Yellow should be fine. There's many colors. Even the movie had a normal looking Tiefling.

[tacit coral]

does anybody know where i can find artificer stats and stuff

[humble cairn]

The new Eberron book.

[tacit coral]

without buying anything?

[meager fractal]

Bummed that there wasn't a bg4 announcement at the game awards

[humble cairn]

The new Eberron book, if they happen to have it at your local library.

[tacit coral]

ok thx

[tender pier]

I'm currently in a impasse right now (and I'm at session Dm'ing) idk how to explain what my party is saying to me as of now

[clear lark]

I would think there wouldn't need to be a BG4 since BG3 has concluded. It would make more sense to start on another D&D saga.

[pallid haven]

what's an Eberron book?

[slender mason]

Solasta 2 was announced, at least

[humble cairn]

One of the newest D&D books. Eberron: Forge of the Artificer.

It has the Artificer, new magic items, and details the Eberron setting.

[marble lion]

Why are you typing here while DMing? On break?

[pallid haven]

so that's where the new stats for the Artificer class?

[humble cairn]

Yes

[pallid haven]

are there books for the other class?

[humble cairn]

The Player's Handbook has every other official class.

[slender mason]

and if you mean The Psion, it isn't finalized yet

[pallid haven]

is that a mage class?

[humble cairn]

It is, yes, but it is not yet an official class.

[pallid haven]

so there is also no new stats for the other class as well?

[tender pier]

Yeah on break

And I need a quick help

[slender mason]

probably best in #dm-discussion

happy to give ideas there though

[marble lion]

Well damn ask!

In there maybe true

[sage hull]

Solasta 2 looks fun

[humble cairn]

What other class are you talking about?

[fossil hollow]

why would they introduce a new stat for a class at this point

[marble lion]

What is a stat?

Stats to me are ability scores

[pallid haven]

fighter's, mage,barbarians etc.

[tender pier]

Idk if its possible

but somehow at this point my party has terrible persuasion stats but has good Deception stats

(Essentially negative modifiers for persuasion and positive modifiers for deception)

So the obvious problem is that if they try and tell the truth or something that isn't a lie they have to get a -4 to persuasion

But they get a +4 for deception

So they have to use deception to tell the truth by making a lie

[marble lion]

Deception is generally harder because you can prove the truth

[humble cairn]

"Mage" is not one of the D&D classes, but a few classes can be described that way: Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, even Bard maybe. There are 13 official classes, Artificer is in the Eberron book, every other official class is in the Player's Handbook, like I said.

[marble lion]

But yeah if theyre bad at persuasion it will be tough to persuade sometimes

So have them depend on proof instead

[old sluice]

That is not how the rules work. Persuasion is not for "telling the truth", it's for:
A) Convincing someone to do something
B) Making someone friendlier to you

[marble lion]

There is no problem here that you have to fix

[marble lion]

Which in a way works as convincing them of truth

"To do something" can be "to trust"

[old sluice]

No. Because it's about convincing someone to do a "task", an actual concrete action.

[hushed mason]

That would be the "makign someone friendlier to you" (trust, that is).

[old sluice]

What you are describing "to trust" is more akin to influencing their disposition. Making them friendlier

[marble lion]

What roll would you call for if the party tries to convince a guard that they killed the dragon after they actually did?

Id call for persuasion if necessary

[old sluice]

None. Did they bring proof that they killed the dragon? Were they seen killing the dragon?

[marble lion]

What if not

[old sluice]

If the answer is no to both, the guard does not believe them, no roll.

[marble lion]

Well that just seems bad

[old sluice]

Yes, it's bad. Bring proof.

[hushed mason]

In the past, you could use Diplomacy to improve the attitude of NPCs.

[old sluice]

Of course other things can change the situation. Does the guard know the PCs personally or are they famous?

[fossil summit]

It really depends. Why do they need the guard to believe that they killed the dragon?

[slender mason]

Charisma (Persuasion) allows you to honestly and graciously convince someone of something.

[fossil hollow]

key word honestly

[marble lion]

Source?

[tender pier]

Ohh....

Hmmmm well dang I think I messed up

[fossil hollow]

BR, 2024 i would assume

[fossil summit]

If they want to get past the guard using the fact thay they killed a dragon, I would say irs persuasion because they are trying to convince the guard of doing a concrete action

[marble lion]

Dont jump the gun emps

[slender mason]

2024 PHB

[fossil hollow]

the keyword is honestly

[marble lion]

The keyword is "honestly" but also "convince of something"

Which would mean you can use it for making someone believe you,if reasonable

[fossil hollow]

its and

[marble lion]

As i run it myself

[slender mason]

it would just probably have a high DC without Proof

[fossil hollow]

not or

[fossil summit]

Agree with tiamat. If you're lying, it's deception.

[fossil hollow]

wait, tiamat?

[marble lion]

where is this coming from?

i think you misread this talk. noone is saying persuasion works for lies

[fossil hollow]

am i tiamat?

[marble lion]

the discussion is whether you can use persuasion to make someone believe something or only to make someone take an action

the honesty part was never in doubt by anyone i think

[fossil summit]

The wording of "make someone believe you" implies you're not telling the truth.

[marble lion]

it doesnt really but if you had read the context first, youd know thats not what i meant anyway

[fossil summit]

To me, which is why I mentioned that.

[marble lion]

anyway not the point

[fossil hollow]

im confused, am i tiamat? I swear im a ti moth

[marble lion]

yes they meant you

no idea why they said that, maybe a joke, but youre the only one here with a ti in your name

[fossil hollow]

does work with process of elimination

[marble lion]

but as you pointed out jujulion, even if a DM doesnt allow persuasion for convincing someone of a truth, you can still roll persuasion because there would most likely be a reason you are trying to convince them

get paid for the kill, get trust for future favours, get a discount on an item, make peace etc

[old sluice]

Paying you for the kill is not really the guard's job

[marble lion]

so even if you couldnt make someone trust you on something, it would effectively not matter i guess

[fossil hollow]

oh yeah, DM can say there are scenarios where a roll is not possible

[old sluice]

What exactly is the guard doing in that situation?

[slender mason]

if it's a big job like that the Guard can probably just take you to someone that knows Zone of Truth too

[marble lion]

that is true but that is true for any roll, not just persuasion, so not really relevant here

[marble lion]

it doesnt seem to matter as you apparently can use persuasion for convincing people of a truth too

[fossil hollow]

ok, i think i need to scroll up past 10 minutes

[marble lion]

the phb quote reads like that to me at least

[slender mason]

I mean that's the definition of persuasion really

[marble lion]

it was to me but praetor says otherwise and since i never actually looked it up i wasnt sure

[old sluice]

It does not really read like that to me to be honest

[marble lion]

"convince of something" does not mean it has to be a quantifiable action in the physical world

[old sluice]

But like any skill, it's a matter of circumstances, I suppose

[marble lion]

you can homebrew and houserule but that sentence seems very clear

but again even without that ruling, you could still basically use persuasion for "it" because "it" will have a reason

if you go to the guard of the town that asked you to kill the dragon, you want them to believe you so they let you see the person who will pay you maybe?

then the persuasion is to make them escort you there and not think youre tricking them

[slender mason]

obviously without some backing evidence the DC for a lot of Persuasion might be high

[marble lion]

oh definitely, or even impossible

[slender mason]

just because you believe it doesn't mean it's easy to make John Commoner believe you met God

[old sluice]

See the person? Sure. You don't need to roll to get an appointment with someone whose job involves appointments

[marble lion]

thats completely DMs discretion. i did pick a rather big example with a dead dragon

[slender mason]

the DC is probably just lower than the Deception one is

[marble lion]

alright ill just use another example

[old sluice]

But then again, who kills a dragon without bringing proof? There is just no way anyone will believe you didn't cut a scale or a horn.

[marble lion]

then make it a goblin i dont care

[old sluice]

Another example would be nice, yes.

[marble lion]

make it something fairly realistic. this is about principle, not actual numbers

[slender mason]

the easy example for Persuasion is Haggling honestly

"I'll have an easier time dealing with these Goblins if I can afford your Healing Potions"

[marble lion]

a circumstance where the guard might believe you but is doubtful

if a druid threatens to kill a villager unless you return a flower to its grove or something like that, you do that and then come back without the flower, the druid might not be sure if youre lying

[old sluice]

I need a concrete example.

Wait, isn't the druid in the grove?

[marble lion]

maybe you could have had proof but didnt find it or didnt think of it and now hes not sure if youre being truthful so you can try to persuade him of having done the deed

[humble cairn]

What are we trying to determine here? Whether or not Persuasion can be used to convince someone to believe something?

[old sluice]

Assuming the druid is not in the grove... The druid will just go to the grove to check, and destroy the town if the flower isn't there

[marble lion]

yes

[old sluice]

No roll involved.

[marble lion]

you can involve a roll there though

for example, the party could try to persuade him that they did it without checking so they can return the villager now and not later

[old sluice]

And maybe the druid will ask you a question about what the flower and the grove look like to make sure you're not lying. And if you fail to give the right answer, he just destroys the town.

[humble cairn]

Whether or not a roll is called for is up to the DM. But as for the purpose of the Skill "Honestly and graciously convince someone of something" sounds like it's about making someone believe something, to me.

[marble lion]

this works for every single social interaction out there

[old sluice]

Oh, kill a villager, not destroy a village. Sorry, I need my glass

[marble lion]

you can always circumvent social rolls as DM

that doesnt mean its the wrong skill. that just means you in that scenario decided against having a roll

this is impossible

you can always worm your way out of allowing a roll if you want to which you seem very determined to do

persuasion is still the right one if it ever comes to it

[old sluice]

Thing is, there is no need for a roll. I would have the druid ask the PCs who alledgedly returned the flower to the grove. A question like "Tell me, the flower, what does it smell like?" and "The grove... Was the old oak in the middle still dealing with that fungal infestation?". If the PCs' answer betrays that they don't know the smell of the flower or that they didn't go to the grove, kill the guy

[fossil hollow]

the dice are for uncertainty

if a player says something that works, or RPs well, no roll needed

[marble lion]

knowing what the grove looks like doesnt prove you returnt the flower though

[old sluice]

In that situation, the druid has a very easy way to be certain that you're not lying to him without any roll being involved

[humble cairn]

If the task is possible but not guaranteed, that's when you roll.

[marble lion]

what if they kept it for themselves or sold it? you dont know that just because they recognise the grove

what if the druid cant travel to the grove for some reason

[old sluice]

At the very least answering both those questions correctly proved that you got the flower and went to the grove.

[humble cairn]

Sure, but that doesn't change that Persuasion is the Skill to convince people of things.

[hushed mason]

They send a little helper.

[marble lion]

yeah but it doesnt prove you left it there

[fossil hollow]

like, i had a paladin have a meeting with a high ranking demon because she asked for "something sweet" I did not know that it was a keyword for back table dealings

[marble lion]

they dont have one in this scenario

[fossil hollow]

i didnt need to roll in that scenario

[marble lion]

its an example to show that persuasion rolls exist

[old sluice]

Indeed, it doesn't prove you left it there. But it seems a little silly that you would have gone to the grove, then come back without leaving the flower in the grove. Why go to the grove at all?

At least that would be the druid's reasoning

[glass granite]

Shows up with a cookie 🍪

[marble lion]

to be better at telling the druid you did it

[humble cairn]

Why is this relevant to the question of whether or not Persuasion is used to convince people of things?

[old sluice]

In that case, sure. I'd let the PCs lie to the druid without a roll then

[marble lion]

if you get to pull out a thousand whatifs, i just have to do the same

[fossil hollow]

she did get the sweets she craved afterwards 😄

[glass granite]

Yayyy

[old sluice]

I don't know, it's an example.

[tribal isle]

Finding no Sci-Fi campaigns.

[marble lion]

but they did do it. the druid just doesnt know that for sure

otherwise its deception

[fossil hollow]

at this point i also would like to point out it seems to be a never ending conveyor belt of moving goalposts

[humble cairn]

So you agree that Persuasion as a Skill can be used to convince people to believe something based on the "Honestly and graciously convince someone of something" wording?

[old sluice]

Oh but the druid is sure. The druid is sure that nobody would have gone to the grove with the flower without putting the flower back. The druid may or may not be wrong.

[hushed mason]

If the druid had no reasonable way of knowing "for sure"... why would they have left the job up to someone else in the first place?

[marble lion]

yes it does that was my point earlier

[marble lion]

the DM has written it so

[old sluice]

Was there ever any doubt?

[marble lion]

maybe they dont have anyone around to help them? there are infinite reasons you could come up

[humble cairn]

That seemed to be the question in question.

[marble lion]

you said thats not possible

[old sluice]

No. I said persuasion is not a skill you use to "tell someone the truth".

[humble cairn]

You can stop debating useless examples, Praetor agreed that Persuasion can be used to convince someone to believe something.

[hushed mason]

"We put the flower in the grove like you said"
"Why should I believe you?"
"Why ask us to do it in the first place if you weren't going to believe us?"

[marble lion]

here you said its for doing something
i then said believing is doing something
you then said "No. Because it's about convincing someone to do a "task", an actual concrete action."

[old sluice]

Refer to use B please.

[marble lion]

because in this scenario they were his only chance i guess

[fossil hollow]

more moving gooooalpooosts

[marble lion]

believing you doesnt mean "being friendlier to you"

[humble cairn]

If you're trying to convince someone of something that you believe is the truth, which is what the "honestly" part requires, then you're trying to convince someone of the truth.

[old sluice]

I would put convincing someone of your honesty as being the second use of the skill. I think

[marble lion]

this is insane, im going to bed. im glad you agree now though that persuasion works for that

[glass granite]

Hi going to bed, I’m Nugget

[hushed mason]

Hi Nugget. Did I mention I have a rooster named Nugget?

[fossil hollow]

whose Ben nugget

[marble lion]

minor spelling error detected, im haise!

[glass granite]

Damn ittttt

[old sluice]

Moreover, this whole thing was started by this message #dnd-discussion message

[glass granite]

Friend of mine, great lad. Plays the guitar

[tidal bough]

RaW we can all agree on states

"Charisma (Persuasion) allows you to honestly and graciously convince someone of something."

[glass granite]

I remember you mentioned it was a chicken!

[humble cairn]

Whether or not they believe you about the truth, that is what you're trying to do. There are plenty of times in adventuring when proof of your deeds is impossible to get or has been taken away from you, but you might still need to convince someone you're telling the truth and Persuasion is the skill that helps you convey your honesty and sincerity.

[eager marsh]

Got the ebberon mini book today. Dragon mark feats are really cool and good and the generic improved mark feat is insanely good

[fossil hollow]

yeah, convincing them that you could be working off misinformation or wrong info is a thing

[glass granite]

Didn’t Praetor say that here tho? #dnd-discussion message

Idk got here late, no idea what the original question was

[humble cairn]

Players don't get to decide what Skill they are using, if they are being truthful and honest, you as the DM get to decide that they will roll their Persuasion rather than Deception.

[warped jay]

So does the 2024 phb trump everything else? Trying to make an aasimar but the Phb hasn't different descriptions of their transformation abilities

[fossil hollow]

your group/dm decides what versions youre using

[tidal bough]

Me either but RaW persuasion is convincing someone of something with the added terms being honestly and graciously

[warped jay]

So if its the latest one than the 2024 phb trumps all?

[fossil hollow]

and you can flavor them however you want. you dont need to be angelic specifically

ok, what do yo mean by trumps all

[tidal bough]

If you are playing 2024 yes but its up to dm

[humble cairn]

They also said this: #dnd-discussion message
and this: #dnd-discussion message

[hushed mason]

Mmm. I just created a half-celestial of lillend heritage.

[fossil hollow]

played an aasimar who was from Kirin lineage

[warped jay]

I am the dm, sorta, I'm doing a one shot as a player. I assume she still wants to use the 2024 rules. we're all fairly new.

[fossil hollow]

then you ask them

[glass granite]

And I agree. Persuasion isn’t telling the truth, it’s convincing someone of the truth (or your truth, or your argument). Telling the truth wouldn’t require a roll.

[old sluice]

To be precise:
Whether or not someone believes you first depends on the situation, context and your relationship with the person. If they doubt you, then maybe there is a roll.

[glass granite]

Me agree

[marble lion]

yes, just like with any other skill check in the game

[fossil hollow]

anyway, what are your favorite artic monsters yall

[glass granite]

Haven’t a clue

[marble lion]

frost giants

[hushed mason]

Polar bears?

[fossil hollow]

need some crowd sourcing

[marble lion]

i love frost giants so much i love them i love frost giants

[hushed mason]

Try an Immoth

[old sluice]

Remorhazes are nice. But if you're looking for something more niche... Pathfinder had adlets, which can easily be converted to D&D 5e

[marble lion]

goodnight

[humble cairn]

Remorhaz or however you spell it.

[fossil hollow]

Immoth?

[fossil hollow]

:D im always a fan of them

[hushed mason]

Immoth is a cold/air/water elemental with a tail.

[fossil hollow]

ok, frost giants, polar bears, remorhaz... immoths. Frost Giant hunting party it is

cant wait for session

I should name one of the Immoths a T-Immoth

[hushed mason]

They're usually found alone.

[glass granite]

Yes, you moth

[fossil hollow]

could be the target of teh raid

or hunting party

Frost Salamander should work maybe

[hushed mason]

Immoths can be good quest-givers.

[fossil hollow]

noq i gotta look up their actual lore and statblock. 3e monster i take it

[hushed mason]

I gave a character an Immoth as a warlock patron. Sadly, the player didn't work out.

[hushed mason]

Yes, it's in MMII.

Rime Sprite is another thing you might want to look up. Or you could use an ice mephit. Small, annoying pests.

[fossil hollow]

i love kamikaze ice mephits

[humble cairn]

Yuki Onna is also thematic, not sure how to do that in D&D.

[fossil hollow]

id probably use a Banshee or Annis Hag and give them more cold spells

[marble lion]

Succubus i guess

[old sluice]

Wouldn't it just be a snow banshee?

[marble lion]

Dont yuki onna seduce and lure?

[old sluice]

A snow banshee with a charm spell

[fossil hollow]

i think so? Cant recall specifics

[marble lion]

They dont just whine and shriek iirc

Banshees dont work at all imo

[humble cairn]

They trick you out into the snow and then freeze you.

[fossil hollow]

easy enough to add a charm.

instead of the Wail, its frozen AoE

[marble lion]

Eh true enough and make the shriek freeze

[humble cairn]

Or sometimes just pretend to be human and then melt in bathwater.

[marble lion]

Bathwater you say

[fossil hollow]

its funny to me when they make a yuki onna based character run hot springs

ive seen two anime/games that do that

[humble cairn]

They like to live dangerously?

[hushed mason]

Yuki-On-Na appears in Oriental Adventures (3e)

[fossil hollow]

ugh

Sorry, Oriental Adventures gives me an ick

[hushed mason]

And Frostburn, apparently.

[humble cairn]

Yeah it's an uncomfortable book.

[marble lion]

I think its moreso that yuki onna are based on hostess women

[fossil hollow]

that also tracks

[hushed mason]

There is a 3.5e version in Frostburn!

[umbral girder]

A pretty yikes book yeah

[marble lion]

Promise of company and shelter and comfort while travelling

Thats probably how the whole thing came to be

[fossil hollow]

i can see succubus with cold immunity and damage instead of psychic now yeah

[humble cairn]

-# Concubus!

[fossil hollow]

... oh yeah, im using this soon

[river tree]

what am i

[fossil hollow]

now to find art of a yuki onna that wont get me in trouble

[humble cairn]

I feel like more thematic than challenging.

[humble cairn]

Getting philosophical, eh?

[hushed mason]

Just use the art from the book. The 3.5e era adventures encourage folks to use art from the books.

[fossil hollow]

im not touching Oriental Adventures with a 3 foot long pole

[marble lion]

Old books are weird islay

[hushed mason]

I said it was also in Frostburn.

[fossil hollow]

i dont know 3e

[hushed mason]

Frostburn would be the 3.5e version.

[fossil hollow]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hushed mason]

I'd show you the art, but apparently no pictures in here.

[fossil hollow]

Incubbi art actually can work ithinks

now i just need to make the dungeon itself the terror

[marble lion]

Incubi are male right?

[fossil hollow]

not much for actual combat herself

[hushed mason]

It has the creature as a fey, not an outsider.

[fossil hollow]

not in 2024. Theyre alternate forms of each other

[marble lion]

Snow woman would suit succubus more

Oh i see i didnt know 24 made them one thing

[fossil hollow]

Succubi being more physical, Incubbi being more Dream based

still two statblocks, just not limited to one gender

[humble cairn]

Hot springs neutral zone, where a ceasefire is in force for all factions?

[frail nimbus]

hey guys could any kind soul please help me out

[fossil hollow]

could be yeah... although not a lot of factions in the place you guys are going to except for one...

[humble cairn]

Maybe blanketed by a Calm Emotions?

[fossil hollow]

better to ask than ask to ask

[hushed mason]

What kind of help do you require?

[humble cairn]

Oh no, is this for my game? Am I giving you ideas for my destruction?

[fossil hollow]

😅 dont worry, this should be a more chill encounter... pun intended

[umbral girder]

Yep

Which is fitting to the actual lore of succubi and incubi too.

[fossil hollow]

... are hot springs counted as running water

[glass granite]

emerges from my hole in dm discussion
Icy what you did there

[humble cairn]

Natural ones do tend to be slow running, I think.

[fossil hollow]

hmmmm good enough for a vamp

[humble cairn]

You .. are clever in a way I cannot be.

[marble lion]

Depends on the spring

[fossil hollow]

think stereotypical japanese hot spring

[glass granite]

I’ll…take that as a compliment

[hushed mason]

Is anyone else waiting with baited breath to find out what kind of help this person wants?

[marble lion]

If its a basin in a brook, yes.
If its a pond with a jet going in from below, id say no

Basically is there an actual flow of water or not

[old sluice]

What would be the definition of running water for the purposes of a vampire?

[fossil hollow]

i always imagined it was flowing water

[marble lion]

River, brook, channel, ocean maybe

[old sluice]

Is it water moving towards a direction with a flow? In that case hot springs do not count. But if it's "non-stagnant water", hot springs count

[fossil hollow]

or something with a current

[marble lion]

Lakes, ponds and baths do not count imo

[hushed mason]

There is no current in most hot springs.

[fossil hollow]

ocean i feel is fine for vamps as long as its not a whirlpool or current

[marble lion]

Hot springs can be brook or pond

[marble lion]

I did say maybe because i feel that way too kinda

[glass granite]

Oceans have currents tho

[old sluice]

Oceans are basically nothing but currents.

[fossil hollow]

yeah, but not all of ocean is current

[marble lion]

Yeah but oceans dont look like one flow going in a direction

[fossil hollow]

nevermind

[marble lion]

Its like a very big pond

[fossil hollow]

thought proccess too

[frail nimbus]

yo i heard dnd peopek are super nice, can someone help me i have no friends to play with

[marble lion]

Dnd isnt science, its about the essence of things

[old sluice]

If you are in the ocean, the water where you are may not be part of a given major current but it is certainly influenced by its flow

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[marble lion]

To me, the essence of ocean is not flowing from a to b

[glass granite]

Oh btw, what happens if you throw a vampire into a river? Can they still move? I know they still take damage, but what exactly can they do?

[fossil hollow]

id say influenced doesnt count

[marble lion]

I dont care about science

[fossil hollow]

in dnd, they just take acid damage

[hushed mason]

I have no friends to play with, either, so I search for random Internet strangers to play with. It's always an adventure.

[glass granite]

Can they still cross the water in dnd?

[old sluice]

And it also messes with a few of their other abilities

[fossil hollow]

in most vamp lore irl, they cant cross it

[hushed mason]

If you throw a vampire into a river, they get wet.

[old sluice]

Not by swimming

[fossil hollow]

no, they can cross it as long as theyre not touching it.

[old sluice]

Well, they can certainly try by swimming but it will hurt

[fossil hollow]

bridges, logs to jump on, mounts

[marble lion]

I personally prefer them not being able to even cross a bridge

[supple prawn]

So I have a question is fifth edition character sheet a good thing to help build a character for dnd

[glass granite]

Hmmmmm…
I think I’ll stick with the folklore weaknesses for my games

[hushed mason]

After you read the rules, sure.

[fossil hollow]

dndbeyond, paper and pencil

[glass granite]

I never bothered to learn dnd’s vampires and werewolves

[marble lion]

I let them in my campaign but if i made an actual vampire focussed campaign, id make them unable to cross in any manner themselves

[fossil hollow]

oh youre not asking about where to make em

[old sluice]

In that case, sunlight won't be a problem for them

[glass granite]

Plus, I think it’s more fun this way

[marble lion]

Huh?

[fossil hollow]

iirc, sunlight in Bram Stoker just turned off their supernatural powers

didnt kill them. Just supressed their abilities

[marble lion]

Sunlight being more or less horrid for vampires is very common in things though

[glass granite]

If I recall they just don’t like it, correct?

[old sluice]

Yeah, the whole "vampires are killed by the sun" thing? Not folklore, not even part of the classic vampire novels.

[glass granite]

Yeah that’s 20th century fiction iirc

[marble lion]

Oh he did say folklore true

[old sluice]

In Bram Stocker's Dracula, it's just that he can't shapeshift during the day.

[fossil hollow]

only reason why i remember this is because of a Dracula + Sherlock Holmes crossover

[hushed mason]

And yet, it does appear in the vampire episode of X-Files.

[marble lion]

Id definitely keep the sunlight thing in

[glass granite]

I think the sunlight thing is too ingrained to remove yeah

[old sluice]

I think it was invented for Nosferatu by Murnau.

[fossil hollow]

For Bram Stoker Drac? Supression. FOr Nosferatu? Deadly

[old sluice]

Eh. Coppola's Dracula was having pleasant summer strolls in London during the movie and nobody was shocked. But then again, it's London, it doesn't really count as sunlight

[fossil hollow]

theres no sun in the UK

[old sluice]

Maybe that's why he wanted to move there yeah

[glass granite]

I’m not familiar with the specifics, so thanks for the fun fact! I deadn’t know that

[fossil hollow]

London is a pretty good place for vamps yeah

[hushed mason]

And werewolves!

[fossil hollow]

Oh god, American Werewolf in London?

[old sluice]

Pretty sure the titular american werewolf in London ended up dying

[humble cairn]

For a Mananangal it just forces them back into human form, right?

[mystic fable]

I'm not in London yet

[fossil hollow]

i think so yeah. If they cant attach back, theyre dead

[glass granite]

Hi not in London yet, I’m Nugget

[mystic fable]

hi Nugget, I'm J4ck

[glass granite]

Pleased to meet ya

[mystic fable]

yee

[old sluice]

But yeah, London is the perfect place for evil creatures.

[fossil hollow]

They already get Relentless Slashers

[mystic fable]

that's where the royal family is, so that checks out

[glass granite]

-# Let’s not go there

[frail nimbus]

i submitted a form

[humble cairn]

-# Really resisting the urge to go there.

[fossil hollow]

but yeah, sunlight turns them back, so if they cant stick back, theyre a dead half of a human

[hushed mason]

Indeed, that counts as political discussion for some of us.

[frail nimbus]

GUYS IM GOING TO START DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS I submitted a form!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mystic fable]

I'll leave it there

[fossil hollow]

usually use garlic to stop a mananangal from attaching back

[humble cairn]

Awkward!

[mystic fable]

is it like Shaggy with the hiccups? can't quite keep in one form or the other

[old sluice]

If we are going there, please give me a minute to find my Robespierre costume I wore at last year's Halloween party

[fossil hollow]

hm? What about shaggy?

[mystic fable]

oh, old Scoobie Doo movie

[fossil hollow]

unfotunately ive only watched some of scooby doo as a kid

[mystic fable]

darn

[fossil hollow]

didnt get much cable back in the philippines

[mystic fable]

ah...

[glass granite]

Same with me, but in Vietnam
Wait have I told this server I’m Viet yet

[fossil hollow]

dont think so. (so thats why the trees are speaking)

[knotty pasture]

No I thought you were an Aussie

[old sluice]

That is also a trick used by vampires in VTM. Since vampires don't have a heartbeat and don't need to breathe, they just... Lie down and pretend they're corpses. Nobody can tell the difference between an ordinary corpse and a vampire waiting to strike.

[hushed mason]

I thought you were a chicken.

[glass granite]

I live in Australia, but I have Viet heritage

[mystic fable]

what's funny is that there's a restaurant in my state called Pho King

[glass granite]

Vietnamese and chicken aren’t mutually exclusive

[knotty pasture]

A Polymorphed Nugget

[fossil hollow]

vietnamese chicken is yummy

ugh, now im hungry, thanks Nugget

[hushed mason]

I was the one that brought up chickens. You're welcome.

[humble cairn]

I just had Vietnamese food yesterday, found a place in Bangkok that's decent. Still need to find a place for bun bo hue, though.

[glass granite]

I…disagree. The chicken in Vietnam is often a bit tougher, and the traditional boiling can get boring for my palate.
I actually was gonna reflect this in one of my characters. Also, hi hungry, I’m Nugget.

[mystic fable]

I need to try a proper ca phe sua da

[glass granite]

That just translates to iced latte

[fossil hollow]

i kinda like it like that though, and i dont usually have it that way

[mystic fable]

I don't speak Vietnamese

[fossil hollow]

Jolibee and KFC is usually the style i have, if my dad aint making wings

[mystic fable]

turns out, one of my cultural holiday dishes translates to "birds" in Russian

[humble cairn]

This is making me hungry

[fossil hollow]

god im hungry now

[glass granite]

It’s fine, it’s just not mind blowing to me.

[glass granite]

Ah so your first name is hungry and your last name is now!

[fossil hollow]

now it is

[mystic fable]

there aren't even any birds in said holiday dish

[glass granite]

Oh and btw, I’ve had it and it’s good (for coffee, personally I hate coffee), but it is horrible for you

I need to make a character that specialises in Viet food

[mystic fable]

I like coffee, and we Americans seem to be obsessed with eating things that are horrible for us, so it works out perfectly!

[fossil hollow]

one day ill make a springroll wizard

[humble cairn]

Story idea: Down on his luck restaurateur in .. let's say Neverwinter, opens a tiny portal to the Abyss in his kitchen to summon Abyssal Chickens because it's an exotic flavor.

[fossil hollow]

gotta make sure the blood is pumping

[humble cairn]

I allow myself a coffee a day.

[mystic fable]

I drink too much coffee

[fossil hollow]

i dont drink any

[frail nimbus]

hey sir

[glass granite]

I…can’t expresso how much that makes sense. A fair few Americans I’ve talked to like it, and I’ve bean confused about that, but idk how I didn’t realise till now. Well, better latte than never.
Ok that was wayyy too many puns

[fossil hollow]

ugh, i wanna run another food based oneshot

also, hm? what ya need Gael?

[frail nimbus]

noo im not gael hahaha its coincidence

[fossil hollow]

lmao

[fossil hollow]

i need you to type in !roll 3d6, and do it 6 times

[frail nimbus]

if you take me in or help me i will like honor you for every board game i play, like ill sya your name and say its for your sake. im super new and i dont understan anything and my friends dont play this

[glass granite]

Pay me in cookies, and I’ll consider it (this is literally just my character Reuben)

[fossil hollow]

oh, i dont think im recruiting right now unfortunately. feel free to check out #dnd-newcomers and #learn-to-play to get oriented though

[humble cairn]

Abyssal Fried Chickens!

[glass granite]

Well, I’m willing to help you too! Check out #dnd-newcomers tho, they’re better at this

[fossil hollow]

oathmeal cookies good for you?

[glass granite]

Hm, better than nothing

[mystic fable]

you think they come with built in Cajun seasoning?

[frail nimbus]

okay ill take you for sure

[fossil hollow]

depends, is the hells in the south?

[glass granite]

Read up on the first few chapters of the free basic rules on #learn-to-play , and feel free to ask any questions you might have.
Once you’re ready and got the fundamentals down, you can check out #find-a-game for information on how to find a group online. To make a post, type the appropriate command in any chat channel.

[humble cairn]

snort

[mystic fable]

...yes?

[fossil hollow]

then its cajun

[frail nimbus]

so i cant follow you and be your appretice in yor group or nahh??

[old sluice]

South of the alignment chart certainly

[humble cairn]

That burning is the demon ichor!

[fossil hollow]

naaaah, thats the built in buffalo dressing

[hushed mason]

Don't you think food from the Abyss would be abyssmally bland?

[fossil hollow]

no?

[glass granite]

Hmmmm…

[stoic haven]

Gooooood morning

[mystic fable]

that actually would make sense

[frail nimbus]

after i read the rules @glass granite

ill make sure

[fossil hollow]

seeing how grazzt is literally one layer, and he loves any sensation or pleasure

[humble cairn]

I think it would be spicy and incite violence.

[fossil hollow]

food in thanatos? sure. undead got no tastbuds.

[mystic fable]

boiled chicken with rice sprinkled on it that forms a crust sounds like food given to a sinner in hell

[fossil hollow]

demogorgon, baphomet, yeenoghu, grazzt, they all love seasoning

[stark arch]

Several more hours til next session 🥳

[old sluice]

I think that depending on the layer it would be so spicy as to tear a hole in your stomach, so rotten as to infest you with maggots, so slimy as to choke you as you're trying to eat it, or relatively pleasant.

[glass granite]

I do have a server, but I don’t know you well enough to add ya yet

If I find you’re nice, feel free to join

[frail nimbus]

okay what can i do. ill video chat o send you a photo

okay how do i prove it

[glass granite]

Nah, if you’re nice when I see you around here

[frail nimbus]

im tots down okay

[glass granite]

No rush. Now go read

[hushed mason]

I don't know if I'll have a next session. Two of the players had a spat, and I genuinely don't know how to resolve it. I'm inclined to tell them to sort it out themselves.

[frail nimbus]

YES SIR 🫡

[glass granite]

I imagine that’d be devilishly delicious

[fossil hollow]

ok, next oneshot idea,

Burying the Light

the party finds themselves in a layer of the abyss filled with shadow... but where they leave their shadows, it instead glows with light... and the noises are getting closer and closer...

[marble lion]

Was one out of line? The group should talk to them.
Do they refuse to fix things? Play without them.
Did both cause it and there is no right side? Talk to both of them.
Good luck though

[fossil hollow]

welcome to layer 67

[mystic fable]

67? M67 hand grenade?

[marble lion]

Why those numbers

[fossil hollow]

brainrot

[marble lion]

At least use the OG of the 60s

67 is a pretender to the throne

[fossil hollow]

thats the effects of the actual 67th layer of the abyss btw, good aligned creatures dont cast shadows, they cast light. which makes them easir for demons to hunt in the sheer darkness

[marble lion]

Oh very cool

[humble cairn]

Makes me want to bring Adamos back.

[fossil hollow]

reflavoring the demons to be brainrotted children

[marble lion]

67 being a mark that makes it easier to spot you as an enemy is highly topical

[humble cairn]

Oh ... oh gods, that's terrible.

[glass granite]

I’m not even gonna make a pun, that’s genuinely terrifying

[fossil hollow]

maybe ill have my younger sister voice act for them

[mystic fable]

as if they aren't already

[inner silo]

What do you think of taking a level of cleric as a lev 5 rogue?

[humble cairn]

Not great

[glass granite]

Hmmm
True strike spam is fun

[knotty pasture]

Trickery Cleric perhaps, synergy is kinda eh

[fossil hollow]

pelt them with zoomer lingo in a kid's voice

[glass granite]

So: not great, could be worse

[marble lion]

Not synergy but fun if its for your rp i guess

You get to pick up cantrips and spells

[inner silo]

Yeah it's for rp, I'm playing a rogue aasimar that's trying to return to their goddess

[fossil hollow]

hmmm... what cr fiend would a certain toilet be

[glass granite]

NO

[marble lion]

You could use a feat instead though but that was at lvl 4 not 6

[old sluice]

Oh yeah I remember that one. Long story short, I was told a story about how a group of PCs ended up trapped in the Abyss and, while trying to make their way back, had to choose between this layer and another on the way to their destination

[inner silo]

Missed the opportunity

[old sluice]

The players were basically traumatized.

[marble lion]

Could ask the DM to replace what you picked at 4 with the feat

[old sluice]

But I don't remember which of the two layers they chose

[fossil hollow]

did it include shortcuts

[fossil hollow]

wynaut

[old sluice]

Don't quite recall, why?

[marble lion]

Some DMs would be very willing to do this

[inner silo]

I'll miss out on 20 dex and 16 const so it might be worse. We're playing rolled stats 2014

[marble lion]

And asking them for it will also make them maybe engage more with that aspect of your char

Youre actively including the dm in your char, always good

[glass granite]

Now im gonna have to find a counter

[fossil hollow]

had another player retell me a story about how they were also stuck in the abyss, and they took a shortcut. which led to thir tiefling being banished, wizard enfeebld, and gave that player ptsd for shortcuts

[old sluice]

I think they were trapped because... If I remember correctly, one of them cast banishment on another to save them from danger, but the one who got banished was the one who had the tuning forks for planeshift

[fossil hollow]

wait, do you play with Incubus

[inner silo]

Sounds great but iirc the 2014 feats don't give you asi correct?

[fossil hollow]

oh god, thats the exact story

[old sluice]

Oh?

[fossil hollow]

yeah, Incubus told the story here once

[old sluice]

Wait hang on... Oh yeah, one of the friends we have in common is the person who told me that story. They probably played that together

[fossil hollow]

even asked that the players in one of my oneshots to not take shortcuts

oooh ic.

[marble lion]

Some do

[old sluice]

Seriously though. Banish the guy who had the tuning forks?

[knotty pasture]

Not that much ASI for the most part but its something

[marble lion]

Not dex or con though if you pick a spellcasting one....

[fossil hollow]

yeah, evil move

[inner silo]

I see, oof

[marble lion]

It would give you a mental stat

[inner silo]

Tbh i might wait for level 8 hopefully then

[knotty pasture]

Like +1 str or +1 con for example, enough to be an even number on a stat

[inner silo]

Or ask the dm when will the adventure end

[marble lion]

Worth mentioning that some DMs are fine sith giving storybased feats

[vestal drum]

I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. When playing a strixhaven game, do you have to choose one of the 5 strixhaven backgrounds?

[inner silo]

What would i miss out on from 6th level anyway if i take a cleric level

[marble lion]

Thats iirc the origin of feats before they were made level up stuff

[fossil hollow]

not unless your dm tells you you have to

[marble lion]

Up to DM

[inner silo]

I see. I do think getting it at level 4 would be too early though

[marble lion]

I would maybe recommend doing so though. Most things imo are most fun when you lean into it fully. Consider them

[knotty pasture]

Ideally DM should let you do what you want, backgrounds are easy to reflavor

[marble lion]

Could come at the cost of you not getting any big magic items to balance it

Thats what i do

[knotty pasture]

If you want proficiency in history and persuasion, the DM shouldn't stop you

[marble lion]

1 player is getting feats, 1 is getting items, 1 can craft items

[inner silo]

I mean early storywise

[vestal drum]

I really do like the witherbloom school for a haunted sorcerer (grim hollow subclass)

[marble lion]

Then why are you trying to multiclass?

You seem to think the time is nigh

Change of heart?

[inner silo]

I'm level 4 rn, I'll be level 5 in a session or two and then i feel like it'll be the right time at level 6

[knotty pasture]

I do agree that you don't have to be a Cleric to be related to godly stuff

Rogues could worship gods too

[marble lion]

I did that as barbarian. Went cleric

It wasnt good but it was nice to have the stuff clerics can do

But its not always the best choice

[knotty pasture]

That's a very weird jump ngl, Barb/Cleric that is

[fossil hollow]

had a barbarian who just dedicated his kills to bahamut and iuz

[marble lion]

With my char it was because i received a piece of a gods soul and i really wanted to express that

Send it into the world in shape of his divine light

I felt going cleric was the best way of doing that

But if you just wanna worship, any class works

[knotty pasture]

Druids and Paladins fall under the priest category of classes too

[marble lion]

Multiclassing is an rp choice, never an rp must

[knotty pasture]

Not that Rogue Paladin or Rogue Druid sounds any more appealing

[marble lion]

You can almost always avoid multiclassing for rp

[knotty pasture]

Actually wait nvm Rogue Paladin works

[marble lion]

But it can still be the best way of doing what you want

[knotty pasture]

Swash Rogue + Paladin probably works

[inner silo]

Ah, i picked arcane trickster and dumped char

[marble lion]

Dex paladin just lacks heavy armour but thats it o think

[inner silo]

Thanks for the help!

[marble lion]

Oh i got it. I have the solution

[inner silo]

?

[marble lion]

Youre already a spellcaster then

[knotty pasture]

Actually nvm Rogue Paladin is also v MAD, you need 13 strength

[marble lion]

All you need from your dm is some spells added to your list that are divine

[marble lion]

I dont hold ppl to these as dm but fair

[inner silo]

O! Actually, thanks a lot! I'll ask my dm if they'd allow it

[knotty pasture]

For me I would probably still enforce it but in Paladin's case I might just make it 13 con + 13 cha instead

As a house rule, cuz Dexadins > Paladins

[old sluice]

And charisma and dex. And if you don't have at least 13 constitution, how did you even survive long enough to multiclass?

[marble lion]

I do sometimes just forbid a build though if it is not done well so that counterbalances the intended power control

I just dont like blanket banning a multiclass because of someones stats

Ill look at it and if it doesnt seem like a problem, youre good to go

[knotty pasture]

You could start off with Paladin first and then multiclass into Rogue I suppose, which means you just need 13 dex

Rogue to Paladin is way harder

[old sluice]

No, you also need 13 charisma and 13 strength to multiclass out of paladin, not just into it

[marble lion]

True and then use a finesse weapon with str rolls anyway so it works

[old sluice]

The multiclass restrictions apply to your starting class too.

[knotty pasture]

Oh right that's silly

[marble lion]

Yeah this build would focus on str and con, then have some dex and charisma

Oh you didnt know? I thought you included that

[fossil hollow]

you need 13 in STR, CHA, and DEX to have that multiclass

[marble lion]

18 str, 16 con, 14 cha, 13 dex
Get 16 cha later i guess

[old sluice]

So to be a rogue paladin multiclass you need 13 strength, 13 dex, 13 cha. And you probably needed 13 con to survive until your multiclass

[marble lion]

This isnt really crazy imo

Thats almost a normal spread

[fossil hollow]

level progression is a real [redacted]

[storm quest]

i think i just created the greatest character flaw it brings a tear to my eye 🥹
the flaw is:
the character believes every bird is a person that got turned into a bird

[marble lion]

Not pointbuy but reasonably rolled

With racials and level up asi

[knotty pasture]

Oh nah having 13 on four stats is really MAD

[old sluice]

Standard array won't allow it, neither will point buy. You need a campaign where you rolled and you rolled well. Or you need to wait for a few asis until you can multiclass

[fossil hollow]

eh, relying on rolls is not great

[marble lion]

Sure you wont be good at sneaking or picking locks but thats why youre swashbuckler

[knotty pasture]

Something something I still like my house rule of 13 con/13 cha for Paladin

[marble lion]

Yeah thats accurate
Not crazy though

I like my houserule of
If i like your idea you can ignore the minimums

[knotty pasture]

Watch me multiclass into every class possible by level 13

[marble lion]

Im not gonna force pally to be strength eh

[knotty pasture]

So I'm just 1/1/1/1... in everything

[marble lion]

I doubt i will like it and therefore wouldnt allow

Oh you meant with RAW

[knotty pasture]

Aw damn I was gonna just take ASI feats and have the stats for it

[marble lion]

I mean i guess id allow that

Id just let you know youll be useless

Ive played a pretty weak char before. He died. I was ready for it

[old sluice]

It's a meme build, already been made. The original was called "Abserd". Because the character is absurd

[knotty pasture]

Yeah it is designed to be weak, I can't see how a 1/1/1/1... in 13 classes would even work out

I guess one could kind of make it work by stacking cha towards the end and spamming Eldritch Blast

Like a terrible Warlock

[hollow stone]

nah, discard the common thought and pointbuy 20 CON 20 CHA paladin and have a 9 in 3 other stats and an 8 on int

[old sluice]

Enjoy having low damage and general incompetence outside of combat

[knotty pasture]

See I wanted to try out a 14 dex 14 con 17 cha once which is kind of similar but god does the Paladin hit like a wet noodle unless I use divine smite

[fossil hollow]

basically an aura/spell bot paladin

[hollow stone]

i just came to an extremely funny concept of 20 DEX 20 CON barbarian, actually

[knotty pasture]

As nice as having a bunch of cha is, only standing there menancingly doing nothing is boring

[hollow stone]

terrible at everything but very wiggly and generally hard to murder

[fossil hollow]

not really

incapacitate them with a mental save, end rage, slaughter

[hollow stone]

is there a way to unconscious someone with a mental save?

[knotty pasture]

Rapier + Shield may be the way to go here

[fossil hollow]

sleep

sleep is a wisdom save

[hollow stone]

oh yea that'll work

[fossil hollow]

hold person them, charm them, its pretty easy to turn a barb into a shield for your enemies

[hollow stone]

yea a shield and no armor is like 22AC

[hollow stone]

also is that like, impactful tho? i've never been hit with a Hold Person

[fossil hollow]

you are paralyzed

[hot marlin]

Wanna know a little trick I learned for tactics as a DM? Imagine you're playing an illithid and his minions in front of a stereotypical party of adventurers. There's a melee fighter, a ranged rogue, a wizard... Who do you use your dominate monster on?

[uncut sentinel]

I mean, if you're paralyzed, every successful instance of physical dmg is a crit (iirc)

[fossil hollow]

incapacitated, and all melee attacks that hit you are automatic crits

[knotty pasture]

Paralyzed, close range attacks are auto crits

[old sluice]

Paralyzed is one of the worst conditions of the game.

[hollow stone]

no i mean is that a normal thing for a DM to be doing

[fossil hollow]

you fail all strength and dex saves

[knotty pasture]

I mean if they wanna be cruel sure

[fossil hollow]

lots of clerics and cultist statblocks have it

[knotty pasture]

Hold Person on one of your teammates and have the enemy focus fire on the paralyzed ally

They drop fast no matter their HP or AC

[fossil hollow]

i also dont need spells as a dm to paralyze you

[old sluice]

Generally you should almost always focus fire

[fossil hollow]

ghouls, liches, they get paralyzed as part of their attacks

[uncut sentinel]

Ghasts are p nasty for lower level parties

fun to use

[hollow stone]

huh, see i've never actually had a Paralyze effect used on me

[fossil hollow]

i like my shadows

[old sluice]

Shadows are a huge problem for low strength characters

[uncut sentinel]

Greater Zombies and Mummies are also nasty lol

[woven flint]

Fighter or Rogue, because logistically, a Illithid might understand they have weaker mental fortitudes

(Unless you're me and always give your characters something in wisdom)

[hot marlin]

Excellent

[fossil hollow]

maybe not a 9th level fighter or level 15 rogue, but a mind flayer has no idea what "level" a party is

[hot marlin]

Now can you pick which one between fighter and rogue?

[woven flint]

It'd probably be more beneficial to dominate monster the Rogue so they can't get off sneak attacks because those can be huge.

[fossil hollow]

id take the fighter

more attacks, second wind to regen, typically hits harder with every attack and decent ac

[woven flint]

Also, you gotta consider that rogues can be pretty slippery, if they have places to hide from you, they're definitely going to

[hot marlin]

The rogue is generally the better choice actually. Remember, you have minions that can keep the fighter busy. You have levitate to get out of the fighter's reach. You have advantage on save against spells. You have no defence against a sneak attack from a longbow

[fossil hollow]

a rogue i feel would struggle to help in a fight against a wizard and fighter still though

[woven flint]

What?
We're talking about a Fighter, Wizard and Rogue against an Illithid, Ti, lmao

[fossil hollow]

and you dominate the fighter and send them against the other two

[hot marlin]

Once the rogue is dominated, the rogue sneak attacks the wizard from behind. Now the tides of battle have turned. The PCs have enemies in front and behind

[woven flint]

Dominate the Rogue, Attempt to eat the fighters brain
Kill the wizard, profit

[hot marlin]

If you dominate the fighter, you gain a powerful ally, yes. But the party is still focusing in your direction

[fossil hollow]

nah, fighter brain is junk food

the tastiest morsel is the one that is harder to acquire

[hot marlin]

And mostly: You want to dominate someone farther away from you so that you can blast the ones near you without blasting your dominated minion

[woven flint]

A good mind flayer ALWAYS has some pet intellect devourers with them

[fossil hollow]

speaking of which... you killed nihiloor's favorite boy

[woven flint]

Did Artanza kill it?

I can't remember lol

[fossil hollow]

no, toby did, but by association you did

[woven flint]

Hey, man, I'm just a Cleric
...
Which the party is clearly ungrateful for!

[fossil hollow]

oh yeah, what you think is the survival rate of a party with xanathar's fish