dnd-discussion

[lyric idol]

Welcome to DND, where 3 things are guaranteed. TPKs, nat 1s and homebrewing Beastmaster so the beast has its own turn.

[knotty pasture]

And buff magical item drop rates while we're at it

[buoyant oar]

Bg3 played fast and loose with a lot of things.

[knotty pasture]

Bg3 spoiled me with all kinds of magical items to the point where its weird to end a T2 or T3 without full rare/super rare gear

[stray atlas]

this reminds me of something I'm curious about actually

is the blood of lathander in bg3 a weapon in normal dnd?

[crimson gulch]

It's not something that's been printed jn 5e

[old sluice]

BG3 is a Monty Hall DM. You end up simply loaded

[lyric idol]

No but I intend to make it one. Not as strong.

[knotty pasture]

No, neither are most bg3 items for the record

The few that are in 5e are improvised

[wide rock]

What do yall think of the new artificer

[knotty pasture]

Amulet of Greater Health is not a thing but Amulet of Health is

[sleek cloud]

They sure can do artificer things alright

[wide rock]

Idk whether I should be happy or dissapointed at the new artificer… simply cause a lot of flavor got removed imo

[lyric idol]

I like it. Has a lot of intrigue and flavor. Also the new armor for the armorer subclass is great.

[knotty pasture]

Club of Hill Giant Strength is just a nod to Belt of Hill Giant Strength

[lyric idol]

Wholely disagree they added a bunch of flavor in my opinion.

[upbeat marten]

Heyy

[wide rock]

Oooo I didn’t see armorer yet

That’s my fav one

[lyric idol]

Its great. It allows you to grow to Large, have a wrecking ball weapon, and go toe to toe with creatures larger then you.

[buoyant oar]

The Blood of Lathander has been a thing for decades.

[wide rock]

Also the only reason I was a bit disappointed is cause it was fun to make a random stone turn into a stink bomb with the second level ability

[wide rock]

HOLY whattttt that sounds soo fun

[buoyant oar]

The Blood of Lathander is first given a history in Volo's Guide to All Things Magical in 1996

[atomic kayak]

the only real difference between weapons (and magic items in general) in bg3 and regular 5e is the fact that attunement doesn't exist. Considering at least 80% of bg3 items would have attunement in dnd they really aren't as strong in actual dnd as people act like they would be

[lyric idol]

I cant WAIT to try it out. Having a total of 3 armor types now really feels like a trick of all trades. I can play ranged, I can provide front line support, or I can bulldoze things down as god intended.

[wide rock]

a THIRD armor omgggggg

I always wanted a dps frontliner version of the armorer since the other always felt like a cleric with more fun

[reef tundra]

Curse you, artificer! /lh

[glass granite]

Can’t fault you on your consistency

[reef tundra]

And I to you

[glass granite]

I feel flattered

[wide rock]

Hehe

[reef tundra]

I think I'm actually getting better though. I'm feeling less distaste for it

I think if I were to truly play artificer for a bit, maybe I'd even learn to like it

[lyric idol]

The new Cartographer subclass looks really fun for an exploration focused campaign. The map guy can now actually be the map guy ingame.

[reef tundra]

My only beef comes from DMing for it and bad previous artificer player experiences

[reef tundra]

I also quite like cartographer and so far the reanimator

[glass granite]

You think your name’s Actually Getting Better Though? Well, if your distaste for the name has lessened over time I guess I can respect the name change, Amity.

[glass granite]

I do like the cartographer too

[lyric idol]

The reanimator? Did I miss a subclass?

[reef tundra]

Unearthed arcana, dw

[sleek cloud]

More classic nugget shenanigans

[runic pilot]

WAIT MORE CLASSES AND SUBCLASSES ANNOUNCED?

[reef tundra]

-_-

[sleek cloud]

Inside voices

[runic pilot]

did I miss something big?

[reef tundra]

Yup, unearthed arcana

[reef tundra]

Not really, unearthed arcana is just testing the water of things

[runic pilot]

I have been so behind on UA recently, my job is wild.

[runic pilot]

[sleek cloud]

They’re hit and miss

[glass granite]

I do not keep up on UA, I just hear it from otherwise

[lyric idol]

Same tbh

[reef tundra]

I just check it out sometimes

[runic pilot]

I’m in a 2024e campaign rn so I like to check on it

[runic pilot]

I adore your pfp so much

[glass granite]

Lupin the Niffler thanks thee, kind benefactor

[lyric idol]

I want to fell giants with the armorer so much rn. Time to throw hands.

[runic pilot]

Lupin 😭

[buoyant oar]

I find public testing to be hit or miss on design sometimes.

I trust the people with years and decades of design experience more so than the public DND community at large. So I don't pay much attention to UA at large.

[wide rock]

Hehe heck yeah

Iron man wasn’t enough why not be the hulk/thanos

[halcyon forum]

idk, most of the stuff in recent years that didnt have UA was pretty bad

[lyric idol]

My question is how did Beastmaster slip past UA without being changed into having its own turn. I dont wanna harp on about it but I thought it was genuinely agreed upon beastmaster deserved to not sacrifice either a bonus action or an action to have its beast do something.

[stray atlas]

also going back to bg3 and mind flayers, I think Omeluum is cool as hell and wish he was a party member

[runic pilot]

Omeluum my beloved

[buoyant oar]

Which stuff. I know for a bit they had contractors making stuff which was really dumb.

[lyric idol]

Think bigger. Its Hulk Buster armor.

[stray atlas]

I get why he isn't because that'd break the ending

[wide rock]

Awww yeahhhhh

[stray atlas]

but still

[buoyant oar]

They probably ran more simulations than the average player and felt that it shouldn't have its own turn. Like Mackenzie said about Banneret. It's recharge was made what it was because of the Math.

[lyric idol]

I mean sure but we already have an example of a better beastmaster. We have Battle Mage, which is Beastmaster but better. Ik theres probably something saying it shouldnt be changed but it still doesnt make sense to me.

[stray atlas]

ngl omeluum reminds me of my idea for a warforged artificer

they're both deeply interested in the future of their species

[buoyant oar]

I don't know what Battle Mage is.

[lyric idol]

Battle smith* sorry for some reason I was thinking wizard lmao.

[stray atlas]

actually wait

could a mind flayer tadpole infect a myconid?

idk if they have traditional brains

[halcyon forum]

tashas beastmaster was wildy agreed to be fun and balanced as is

[buoyant oar]

Well battle smith is for a wholly different class. It's goals and space in the party dynamic is different than a Ranger's

[reef tundra]

Battlesmith I beef with the most, but that's only because it's one of the main 4 subclasses for artificer. If it was like a niche 7th subclasses added in some obscure book then I would probably not mind it

The fact that it isn't sword based hurts me

[lyric idol]

As a DM, I have had thoughts of making a subplot of a Warforged that is attempting to create more warforged via evil experimentation and essentially torture and bisection in a darker campaign and the party keeps running into his inventions, robotic inventions mixed with flesh with no soul as he attempts to make them conscious and aware.

[stray atlas]

btw I bet y'all can guess where I just reached in bg3

underdark is cool as hell

[stray atlas]

reminds me of dayshift at freddy's

[lyric idol]

Idk...All mortal lives expire? Souls go to their doomM

[stray atlas]

underdark

been meaning to ask actually

[delicate roost]

Did i miss any cool and interesting discussions while i was away cutting glass that i need to back up and read? lol

[stray atlas]

what even lives in the lowest layers of the underdark?

[buoyant oar]

The lowerdark is a dreadful place full of aberrations

[reef tundra]

Mind flayers apparently live in the underdark according to the monster manual. I'd say it was a shame that wasn't represented in bg3 but I think they still have enough presence there

[stray atlas]

I'd expect some type of cosmic treasure, stupid strong monster, and/or some type of access to the hells

[buoyant oar]

No access to the Hells are known of in the Underdark.

It is impossible to get to the Hells without death or magic.

[sleek cloud]

Is it

[dense nacelle]

Hi chat

[sleek cloud]

Hello

[proper ermine]

I made drows austrailan

in my campain

[proven lagoon]

Hellurrrr!

[scenic zinc]

Because they live in the land down under?

[proper ermine]

yes

[sleek cloud]

Acceptable

[old sluice]

Would that not make Illithids, Duergars, Svirfneblins, Orogs, Ghouls and Myconids also australians?

[knotty canyon]

You know, I am surprised boomerangs and slingshots haven't been made a thing yet

[buoyant oar]

Slings are a weapon already

[old sluice]

Oh, I forgot Kuo-Toas. My apologies to the fish community

[glass granite]

Slings and slingshots aren’t the same thing

[knotty canyon]

Yeah, I was about to say xD

I feel like they are distinct enough

[glass granite]

I’d just reflavour the weapons anyhow

[knotty canyon]

Would be cool having a boomerang as a slashing range weapon

[scenic zinc]

Illithids aren't from the underdark

[crimson gulch]

but boy have a lot of them moved in down there

[valid geyser]

they live there though, and most australians aren't from australia anyway

[knotty basin]

Shouldn’t they be bludgeoning?

[scenic zinc]

At this point, they are.

[valid geyser]

true enough, i just wanted to make that joke

[old sluice]

By this standard, neither are drows, svirfneblins, orogs, ghouls and duergars

[old sluice]

By this standard, illithids are from the underdark

[scenic zinc]

They still aren't - though I'm sure the gith wished so

[knotty canyon]

Depends on how you imagine it. I like the idea of the weapon slashing the target and smoothly coming back to you. Can't really do that if they smash into someone

[valid geyser]

i mean most boomerangs dont come back to you

and especially as like hunting tools boomerangs just kinda worked by hitting them real hard

[old sluice]

Then I do not understand the standard. Illithids have been in the underdark for longer than australians have been in Australia. Including natives

[knotty canyon]

Look, can't we suspend our desbelief a little bit here? If wizards can trow fireballs I wanna trow a boomerang and have it come back

[old sluice]

Sure. Use a spell. Or a magic boomerang

[scenic zinc]

Because I'm pretty sure most illithid’s are still on the astral plane

[knotty canyon]

... You know what? Fair enough

[scenic zinc]

Plus it's also fake, not real life

[old sluice]

Most humans are in Asia, yet Australian humans are still Australians

[scenic zinc]

And this is why I said the 2nd part

[old sluice]

I am having a lot of trouble understanding what you're saying

[scenic zinc]

I'm aware of that. Perhaps stop making direct comparisons between real life and a fictional world.

[glass granite]

Does the underdark have snags? If not then it ain’t Australia.

[old sluice]

That is how that conversation started though

[glass granite]

Final answer

[scenic zinc]

No... it started with a joke.

Not an actual comparison

[valid geyser]

is that the case? i kinda just figured most of them were in the underdark because the astral plane is full of gith who'd wanna kill them. Compared to most other underdark people who also wanna kill them

[old sluice]

Those are not mutually exclusive. A joke can also be a comparison.

Still I do not understand: Why are illithids not from the Underdark while drows are?

[rough basalt]

Illithids are from a different dimension

Drow are humanoids from material planes

[scenic zinc]

Well... not the material plane.

They're from the fey wild

[rough basalt]

Oh right

[old sluice]

Drows are elves. Elves originate from the feywilds, I thought.

[scenic zinc]

Illithids are from the Far Realm

Which is a completely different universe, so you're right about that

[valid geyser]

elves are both from the material plane and the feywild

the lore is weird like that

[old sluice]

People can be from more than one place

[valid geyser]

sure, I just meant as in originating from

[scenic zinc]

Again you're making unnecessary reference to real life in this conversation...

[tender pier]

How do ally NPC's operate in a DnD Party? Any tips?

[valid geyser]

at least just where their creation myth is concerned. Like, correlon isn't really a fey god at all. At most he's fey adjacent

[old sluice]

Why do you believe it's a reference to real life?

A character can be from multiple places even in the fiction. No need for real life to be involved.

[scenic zinc]

Poorly.

At best, use the sidekick rules from Tasha's.

[halcyon forum]

dont include them unless the PCs want them there, make sure they are not stronger than the PCs

they should be passive when it comes to decisions etc

[scenic zinc]

Eh.

I agree they shouldn't make them for the party, but I disagree about them being passive. They should still make decisions for themselves.

[inner silo]

What do you think of the wand of wonder?

[old sluice]

Funny item. If you loot it just sell it, it's not worth using

Or give it to an npc you don't like

[inner silo]

Is it that bad?

[tender pier]

Ah alright, so just as strong as PC's? My friends want them to be useful so

[sleek cloud]

Wild magic table: the wand

[inner silo]

Can it be fixed if the table of effects is buffed?

[halcyon forum]

I would say slightly weaker and/or in supportive roles is better but certainly not stronger than PCs

[inner silo]

If you give your players a NPC ally they'll take up time during combat and take away hype moments from players sometimes so yeah, that's the issue with them i think

[tender pier]

I see...

[inner silo]

If they really want to of course give them one but just keep that in mind and remove them if the problems start to show

[old sluice]

It's not bad. It's just too unreliable. You never know what you're going to get so how do you even decide how to aim that thing?

[inner silo]

Yeah that does make sense. Do you think if the effects were weaker but more focused on a certain aspect and didn't eat your action it would be better?

[old sluice]

No. Random effects are just not worth using your action on

[inner silo]

What if instead of eating your action it activated when you used a cantrip or something?

[old sluice]

It would be worse. Now you have to take into account the fact that you might be blinding your team when using a cantrip

[inner silo]

You can choose when to use it of course

[old sluice]

Then it's still detrimental. What if you enlarge an enemy? What if you blind your allies? You cast darkness, but every place you can place it is detrimental.

[inner silo]

I see

Are there any other magic items that could fit a wild magic sorcerer?

[old sluice]

I'd go with the same items that would fit any other sorcerer

[inner silo]

I see

[inner silo]

Are there any good ice themed ones?

[old sluice]

A frostbrand weapon? Boots of the winterlands?

[inner silo]

Alrighty, let me look them up

Seems like ice and cold themed stuff really got the short end of the stick in dnd

[sleek cloud]

Oh absolutely, check out the Feywild shard

Not Chardonnay lol

[inner silo]

1 moment

[old sluice]

In Tasha's Cauldron.

[inner silo]

This is actually goated, thanks a lot!

I also often forget about metamagic tbh so this'll make sure i remember it

[fast totem]

This is a silly question but is there a way to play DnD solo using the adventure books or the different starter kits. I got into DnD a few months ago and while I have played with friends I was also looking to play solo when I'm home and just want to do something chill.

[knotty basin]

Not really

[inner silo]

There's dnd type video games

[fast totem]

Ok thanks

[inner silo]

There is a way to play dnd solo but i only know that it exists. Researching it on the internet could help

[fast totem]

I'll look more into it

[jovial badger]

honestly (dont laugh at me)

i js make a couple characters and do fights w them as lego characters like i got a party of 3 lego characters and a dragon figure so they can fight a white dragon or smth

[inner silo]

Sounds 🔥

[runic mulch]

solo D&D is basically the DM telling a story...

[jovial badger]

real

[jovial badger]

ty lol

i got alot of free time

[inner silo]

Free time is good

[spice stump]

Would a dnd nuzlocke where characters who go down to 0 hp insta die and can't be revived be possible to pull off

[spice stump]

Fire

[jovial badger]

oh gosh

[somber mesa]

not too difficult to apply, it does mean stuff that stabilizes people is useless and effectively needs to be cut

[crimson gulch]

Yes

[inner silo]

So healing is terrible now

[crimson gulch]

You need to be an incrediblely powerful dm to make it work though

[spice stump]

This is absolutely not for me then 😭

[inner silo]

Why would it be that hard?

[buoyant oar]

It is remarkably easy to down PCS to zero HP. It gets harder to actually kill them

[inner silo]

I see. Tbh yeah i see it, in our party we go down constantly

[marble lion]

it might include a lot of sitting-it-out on the player side so you need to conduct this whole death-new-character cycle in an entertaining manner

you need to be a skilled dm to make sure people are still having fun

[crimson gulch]

You gotta dm so hard to keep players interested in a meat grinder campaign

[inner silo]

I see

[crimson gulch]

I ran a hardcore toa game like that, no resurrection and dc 15 death saves

[inner silo]

How did it go?

[crimson gulch]

Very well, 13 deaths over 37 sessions and they cleared the campaign. Only one player charicter from session 1 made it to the end

[sleek cloud]

Legend

What were they

[inner silo]

Was it a cleric?

[crimson gulch]

We also rolled 3d6 stats in order for charicters

Warlock actually

[sleek cloud]

Terrifying

[inner silo]

Dam, what subclass?

[crimson gulch]

Feind

[inner silo]

Nice

[crimson gulch]

It was 2014 phb only as well, super good campaign

[inner silo]

Ig fiends really don't let their sugarbabies go

[clear lark]

Sounds like an imbalance with CR's and homemade monsters

[inner silo]

Sounds like fun. How beginner friendly is it?

[crimson gulch]

I dident make any monsters at all for that

I ran the deadliest publishes campaign as written

[old sluice]

Dc 15 death saves, no resurrection, 3d6 in order for stats. I don't see a CR imbalance.

What I see are very vulnerable PCs.

[crimson gulch]

Rolled all hit dice for hp at level ups too

[old sluice]

That one is a toss-up. I've seen characters that rolled ending up with a lot more HP than they would have.

[knotty basin]

I can vouch for this

We’ve had more PC deaths than sessions so far

But it’s very balanced/fun

[lean wigeon]

it depends for me

if the allied NPC is powerful and has alot of narrative impact on the scene relative to the PCs, they're delegated to being background and set dressing.

if the allied NPCs are lesser or of equal power to the PCs, i just use a statblock. if they're recurring NPCs that will last for more than a couple of scenes, they get sidekick statblocks.

if there's like one or two of them and the players want them there, they're in the initiative order and i just let players control them jointly unless doing so would go against the NPC's character.

if there's many of them, they're delegated to being background and set dressing

[strong wave]

What's up my miniature tarrasques

[covert cape]

wait so how do you roll for stats? my stupid ass thought it was a normal d20 ;-;

[lean wigeon]

4d6 remove lowest is standard

[covert cape]

ohhh thanks! i shall be rolling for my next pc :3

[lean wigeon]

so if u roll a 6 3 4 2, you keep only the highest three rolls, which in this case would be 13

[hot gate]

I'd also check with your DM to see what sort of stat generation the game is using. They might just be going for standard array or point buy instead of rolling.

[covert cape]

mk :3 my dm's pretty lenient

[patent ember]

Hello how is everyone?

[jovial badger]

good

[slender mason]

there's no way Circle Magic can alter Sending, is there?

it's either already got unlimited range, or doesn't have anything modifiable otherwise

[crimson gulch]

circle cast sending, reply all: world

[slender mason]

I just like the idea of a group putting together a longer message

[old sluice]

If I need to send a message to just about everyone in the area, I tend to use skywrite

[tough sandal]

I think this works as a house rule, yeah.
One of the few times where I would be okay with using any spell slot.

[glad arch]

Curious, i play dnd with a paper character sheet and pencil/eraser but stuff like hp, spellslots ext gets written and erased a lot which eventually makes the sheat a mess. Curious if anyone has better ways to do it (while still having a physical character sheat)

[snow agate]

a white erase board

[glad arch]

Okay but that would have me create an entire sheat myself

[crimson gulch]

A sheet of my notebook becomes a resource page for a session

[snow agate]

no you just put your quantity of resources on it

[tough sandal]

Plastic insert, use dry-erase. :3

[limber trail]

I've seen some people put their character sheet in a plastic binder slip or laminate it, and write on that with a dry erase marker

[glad arch]

Aah like that

[old sluice]

Also fun fact: the limit of ten words in Skywrite may not be as significant as you think depending on the language you use. In real life, the Mohawk language can communicate in ten words what would take an entire paragraph in english

[crimson gulch]

Also some of my players print a new copy every level up

[glad arch]

Im guessing no pencil/eraser combo is ever gonna be 100% effective over multiple sessions

[snow agate]

no it wont because pencils and erasers leave leftovers

[glad arch]

Yeh i figured

[tough sandal]

I share this same opinion too.
Language varies across the entire world, some words can indicate more or less meanings. Others have fewer articles in a sentence (i.e. a, an, the).
Words can be conjugated into whole other words in non-English languages (i.e he eats vs. [Spanish] come).

I gave one of my players an Inspiration solely because they mentioned this for one of their languages. In our world, Sylvan is Latin.

[knotty wyvern]

i just got an idea for a campaign i wanna write but i have never done that before and all i have in mind is the start and a concept for the big bad

[quasi mesa]

hey guys, very important and urgent: do you think bones count as objects that could be healed with mending?

[paper brook]

misread it nvm

[crimson gulch]

If they are part of a dead creature then the bones are objects because living creatures aren't objects

[quasi mesa]

ok so if one of my players has broken legs then the others can't rip open their flesh, mend the bones, use cure wounds, and then heal the damage?

[valid geyser]

technically-ish Since reival spells treat creatures that have died as creatures

[crimson gulch]

Lingering injury rules suck in 5e, I reccomend not using them.

Mending is 100% not a medical spell

[idle oar]

Ask your DM but trying to use mending on bones is beyond what the core D&D rules (and the mending spell) allow in a straight rules as written way.

[raw ocean]

Being a DM is so hard, do I make one map ahead of time in 5 minutes or game for 3 hours

[old sluice]

Nope. But you could... Kill that character, use mending and revivify

[raw ocean]

Such a hard choice...

[woven flint]

Could just cast Cure Wounds.
Logistically it sound.. mend Wounds lol

[raw ocean]

Just cut off the leg and buy a robot one

[crimson gulch]

I rarely make maps, I just find ones online or in the books I'm running

[raw ocean]

Only maps I make are gonna be reused ones

Like a party boat or base

So I can update them over time with party spoils

[crimson gulch]

Ahh, I have used boat maps alot from the books

And bases and homes I just did theater of the mind, maps are for battle

[raw ocean]

I just slap them in real quick and put walls down

only annoying part is when players go to [insert random object] on the far top left of the map and ask what it is

Im currently geeking on how to set up multi-level maps in foundry

[clear lark]

It's smarter to use the Standard Array. Point buy causes bad decisions. Rolling 4d6 almost always results in mediocre rolls. I mean you are talking about 3.5 on the avg per die.

[crimson gulch]

3d6 stats are the funnest for rolled stats in my experience

[raw ocean]

100 in strength, 0 in everything else

Giant Hammer, Smash, Win

[valid geyser]

having a zero in a stat means instant death

at least according to most effects that reduce scores

[sleek cloud]

Just for the fun of it, I’m gonna roll those 3d6 stats in order and see what I get

[languid ingot]

Rolling a concentration check for a spell? Just remember: hocus focus

[shy stirrup]

It was 3d6, now its 4d6, and eventually it'll be 5d6 - which incidentally is what CR4's rolls are

[sleek cloud]

10,15,13,8,13,10

[shy stirrup]

Those look like 3d6 rolls for sure, bask in the averageness

[sleek cloud]

I’m basking! Basking I say!

[shy stirrup]

you rolled a 15 and two 13's, and no sub 8's, those are (or were) actually pretty good rolls

[sleek cloud]

I was quite surprised

[valid geyser]

also for reference the stat bonus rolls were more curved. a 13 was a +1 and a 15 was a +2 iirc.

[mystic citrus]

Can i join if there is game happening rn

[cosmic roost]

Ready to play Dungeons & Dragons?

Visit #find-a-game for everything you need to start your search, including:

• Instructions for finding a game here on the server (including how to post in our #looking-for channels).
• Suggestions for finding a game outside of this server.
• Basic advice to help you in your hunt.

[loud tendon]

unlikely to find a game happening this instant. But you can read the post just above this to try and find a group to play with

[dusk socket]

Hey, is there a dm out there that would mind joining a vc and helping me be a better dm

[loud tendon]

you could certainly text chat with other DMs over in #dm-discussion

[torn snow]

Is there a generally accepted or popular "muscle wizard" homebrew that anyone can direct me to?

[shy stirrup]

muscle...wizard?

[torn snow]

Yuh.

A melee focused wizard.

[knotty basin]

Eldritch knight maybe? It is a fighter subclass though

It’s not homebrew

[loud tendon]

bladesinger uses melee weapons.. but it's not a strength based class - it would allow you to use your Int mod with the weapon instead of str or dex

[torn snow]

Sure. But I'm looking for homebrew specifically, rather than trying to force official content into this idea that I have.

[knotty basin]

Why?

[torn snow]

The "I cast Punch" idea

[knotty basin]

So… a monk? I’m not really getting it

[dusk socket]

they haven't answered at all 😭

[idle oar]

Folks will respond as they have time, energy and interest. Be patient.
Also not everyone has the time and space to do voice chat.

Feel free to get feedback and workshop this out in #homebrew

[torn snow]

Sorry. Thank you

[sleek cloud]

Third party has one on dnd beyond. Its valdas spire of secrets, has a subclass literally called path of the muscle wizard for barbarians. The “I cast fist” idea is all in there too.

They even get a free short time rage when someone questions their “wizardly capability”

[torn snow]

Ill give it a look. Thank you. I was hoping to create something around the wizard chasis. Hopefully thats close.

[sleek cloud]

Well it’s important to note then that that subclass doesn’t actually have any magic, they just think they do

[torn snow]

Omg wait. Its like Mashle. Thats brilliant. Not exactly what I was going g for but brilliant nonetheless

[sleek cloud]

Worth a look into 😛

[torn snow]

Def

[snow agate]

studying my tome pondering my orb

[oak shoal]

Truth nuke

[narrow python]

.as long as you as the DM can keep them barely alive to complete their goal without letting them know you are fixin the rolls

[crimson gulch]

No, I rolled in the open and let the dice decide weather they lived or died

Many died

[narrow python]

well...as long as they were well acquainted with Run Away Run Away

[shy stirrup]

Retreat, as they say, is always an option

[crimson gulch]

Also no, they fought to the end evey time

Retreat would have ment tpk each time

One pc from session one made it to the end Alive, 13 deaths total over 37 sessions, tomb of anhilliation hardcore mode

[high vine]

Having trouble writing this description. Do you guys know what you call an area of large rocks that linger along the shore of an island? The type of rocks that could sink ships lead by a careless crew

[lusty tendon]

Hey guys what sounds better for my next character for a campaign, a swashbuckler/sorcerer or a swashbuckler/hexblade (i want cantrips but not sure as hex blade gives me more features

[high vine]

Hex blade would be fun

[lusty tendon]

Rocky shores

[minor lake]

crags maybe

or reefs, shoals

[high vine]

Those are close for sure

[minor lake]

probably a shoal i think they specifically imply "hard to navigate"

[high vine]

I thought alcove but that isn't quite right either

[lusty tendon]

Thats what i thought as well, thanks

[minor lake]

i would call them craggy rocks

[high vine]

Maybe rocky shoal?

[umbral girder]

Rocks

[minor lake]

that works too imo

i like rocky shoal best

[lusty tendon]

Ive been told by a previous dm friend of mine who is also an english teacher that you dont have to be crazy about it, just describe it as you see fit

But rocky shoal does sound pretty good

[high vine]

Yeh but I'm bein a little bit picky about the wording IG lol it's a quest location so I wanna make sure they know what I'm talking about

[minor lake]

"what does he look like?"
"man i have no idea Uh.... he's got a hat on"
'a HAT?'
"HELMET i mean HELMET"
'I take his hat'

[snow agate]

yaaaaargh there be treacherous waters by them tides

the foolish vessel seeking harbor will be dashed upon the stones

[high vine]

Or a tired sea captain lured by harpies

[lusty tendon]

I was an absolute menace in his game almost every npc id ask for their name

[snow agate]

harpies are why all vessels keep bows or firearms

[lament sapphire]

Sirens 😏

[high vine]

But he's sleepy 🙁 lol

[minor lake]

i honestly love it when that happens bc those end up being some of the silliest characters

[snow agate]

darwinism

[lusty tendon]

Im a veteran player but a newbie dm so we will see how well i do i have a small campaign set up so any advice (and yes im not gonna pull a deus ex machina)

[minor lake]

i actually did have an npc who ended up with a tiny mountaineering hat bc i said hat instead of helmet

and the players just took that and ran w it

[high vine]

I heard something recently I really like that leads to those situations a lot more.. as the dm you let the players describe how the enemy looks when they attack the enemy for the first time

[snow agate]

id start screwing around and having the npcs say stuff like "whos askin"

"are you a karen gonna report me to HR"

[minor lake]

just have fun. it's not as intimidating as ppl seem to think, as a veteran player u have the tools u need. just look out for things your players want and find a way to give it to them (but make them work!)

i feel like not enough people talk about how the players have a responsibility to like
give their characters wants and form a connection with the world

[lusty tendon]

“Hi im hr of the forgotten realms and weve had a few complaints about some recent activities of yours do you care to explain”

[high vine]

My advice would be don't be afraid to lean on prewritten modules lol it helps to have that bulk of the work rdy for you to simply edit a bit like I'm currently doing

[snow agate]

"that warlock deserved it"

[shy stirrup]

Your experience as a player will serve you well, you may wish to head over to #dm-discussion if you have specific questions

[lusty tendon]

“Alright noted, but you will be blinked for about lets see here 2 days”

[coarse ravine]

||Harpy combat was cool in bg3||

[shy stirrup]

And to all you other Forever Players, follow Agent q's example and give DMing a try

[high vine]

Super frustrating on more combat focused difficulties though lol

[coarse ravine]

I wanta say im on tactician can't remember

Moon druid for the w tno.

[lusty tendon]

Yeah im running a small homebrew campaign and so far it has a nice ton of flexibility so even if it goes off the rails i have something planned for them to enjoy

[minor lake]

yeah just have fun dude
you know the rules, and your story, the rest is just vibing and improvising

[lusty tendon]

Thanks for the advice but just seeing if their is any common things i need to keep aware of while doing this if i have any ill cone and check the place out

Im great as bsing so i should be fine

Anyways how many of you are aware of “the witch is dead” game

[coarse ravine]

When ya make up stories at the table what uncle Trikool told ya

[errant gate]

hey guys im new to dnd and i just wanna ask if there is like any attack bonus when casting wizard spells

[minor lake]

i think it depends on ur character and the spell

[fossil hollow]

you add your INT and proficiency bonus to your wizard spell attack rolls

[minor lake]

oh u right
i totally forgot about int

[lusty tendon]

Tons your int+prof mod+ die roll

[fossil hollow]

its in the spellcasting feature of the wizard

[errant gate]

ah so if i have 2 proficiency and +3 on int, a spell like firebolt does 5 more damage?

[lusty tendon]

But damage is only what the spell reads out

[minor lake]

i think that's to chance to hit

[old sluice]

Not damage. Attack roll

[fossil hollow]

no. you dont add your PB or INT to damage unless something says otherwise

[lusty tendon]

Your chance to hit is upped by your prof+ int+ die roll but the damage is what the spell says it is

[errant gate]

ah alright

[lusty tendon]

So firebolt is 1d6

[fossil hollow]

d10

[cerulean monolith]

The text of the class’s Spellcasting feature and the Spellcasting section of the PHB will have the answers you seek

[old sluice]

Firebolt is an attack spell that resolves in two steps.
Step 1: Roll your attack. 1d20+PB+Int modifier
Step 2: If the attack hits, roll damage

[minor lake]

is there a way to get a damage modifier on that?

[lusty tendon]

I forgot i thought it was d6 mb

[minor lake]

i've never played a wizard

[fossil hollow]

you have something that says you add your INT mod

[errant gate]

there isnt anything to get like a damage bonus for spells?

[fossil hollow]

there are, but i do not know them all

[minor lake]

maybe another spell or an item

there's probably some cantrip that gives you extra damage

[lusty tendon]

I think in rare cases yes like storm cleric maxing lightning spell damage is one

[old sluice]

There are. Eldritch invocations, some metamagic, some items, some subclass features

[fossil hollow]

not really adding damage as much as, well. maximizing it

[sleek cloud]

Swash/hexblade for sure. You still get access to most of the same cantrips anyways

[minor lake]

bro i want to get to the point with a character where i am just rolling handfuls of dice

[lusty tendon]

Yeah but 2 < 4 (i think im being stingy

[fossil hollow]

also, feel free to check out #dnd-newcomers if your new to the hobby

[minor lake]

i wanna roll 10d8

[lusty tendon]

I cast lv9 fireball

[sleek cloud]

Counterspell

[minor lake]

shit

[lusty tendon]

Damn

[sleek cloud]

Just accepting it without a con save just like that huh

[fossil hollow]

or a spellcasting ability mod check

[lusty tendon]

My con is 8 you think im gonna try

[errant gate]

are there attack roll bonuses for like rogues and paladins too?

[lusty tendon]

Yes

[fossil hollow]

they add their DEX/STR to the roll depending on the weapon

also, as said before, might be worth checking out #dnd-newcomers

[lusty tendon]

Every spell and melee have that exact formula but physical attacks their damage gets their physical modifier added to the damage

(Btw learned that the hard way that you add prof mod on attack rolls for physical attackers i was lv5 in that campaign) not my proudest moment

[errant gate]

so if im a rogue, i add the atk bonus + prof + my dex modifer to the d20 roll?

[oak shoal]

Who up pondering thy orb

[lusty tendon]

Yes and yes i am pondering

[lusty tendon]

As in to hit: dex+prof+die roll

Damage number: dex+die roll

[errant gate]

for the damage of spells its just die roll or is there +int too?

[sleek cloud]

Quite literally my profile pic

[lusty tendon]

Nope just what the spell says it does

[sleek cloud]

But Kirby orb of course

[oak shoal]

Pondering the Kirby

[lusty tendon]

This is because spells out class physical attacks fast in later levels so this is then trying to help balance out the damage like 1d10 for a sword+ strength compaired to like 8d6 for fireball

[lusty tendon]

Terrifying the godslaying toddler

[errant gate]

alright tysm guys!

[lusty tendon]

Yep anytime but more advice next time ask in here to get attention then go to dnd newcomers as the people here like to keep chats freed up so it doesnt become crowded

Anyways whats your guys’s opinions on sandbox campaign format for when not on specific missions

[shut pond]

Sad

Can't even be a SCP fan anymore 🙁

[lusty tendon]

Huh? what do you mean

[sleek cloud]

Anyways, how bout them monks

[marble lion]

i love monks

[knotty basin]

Monks are great

My last one was flavored as a wrestler

[lusty tendon]

I dont hate them but not a fan of the play style

[humble cairn]

Monks are a lot of fun!

[lusty tendon]

I like rogues, fighters artificers and full casters

[knotty basin]

Rogues are basically monk lite, so I don’t really get it, but ok

[lusty tendon]

Nah i play a spell caster rogue, thats the difference

[knotty basin]

Oh, I’m playing a swashbuckler at the moment

[lusty tendon]

Yeah my next character concept is a hexblade swashbuckler

[humble cairn]

My favorite character was one of those, with some Swords Bard thrown in.

[sleek cloud]

Swashbuckler with the new zhentarim feats is on my to play list

[knotty basin]

What’s that?

Nvm, just read them

[lusty tendon]

Do you mind sharing the character levels (character discussion)

#character-discussion

[sleek cloud]

Swash swords bard is also popular

[old sluice]

A DM I know is considering a gestalt campaign...

Oh the things I could do...

Bladesinger + Kensei?
Storm Cleric + Fighter?

So many options...

[crimson gulch]

My dream gestalt is probably war cleric champion fighter

[sleek cloud]

What is a gestalt campaign

[old sluice]

Basically: Characters have two classes

They progress in both every time they level up. They take the best of all

[old sluice]

Oh that's nasty

[sleek cloud]

Insane

Sounds fun though

[delicate roost]

what two classes?

[woven flint]

Any two classes

[delicate roost]

so multiclassing but when you level up you level both classes?

[old sluice]

To imagine it more simply: A gestalt character has their own custom class made of two classes thrown in a bender.

So yes, a level 1 gestalt is actually a first level cleric and a first level sorcerer for example

[knotty basin]

No

You put that level in either class

So if you’re a level 1 fighter, when you level up you could either go level 2 fighter, or level 1 fighter level 1 rogue, for example

[woven flint]

I think you misunderstood the question

It was about Gestalt multiclassing

[delicate roost]

Sounds like an aweful lot of maths, and i do not like maths

[knotty basin]

What’s gestalt? Is it a setting?

[knotty pasture]

What is dnd if not maths

[woven flint]

When you level two classes at once

[knotty basin]

Oh, ok, disregard what I said

[delicate roost]

Its me playing games, rolling dice adn before i can add the pips up, one of our players at the table who is real good with the maths tells me what i rolled and i i am happy 😄

[woven flint]

It's a different type of multiclassing where you always have more than one class and they level together

[knotty basin]

That seems really strong

[scenic zinc]

In 2e? Sure.

[knotty basin]

They’re talking about gestalt multiclassing

[woven flint]

It is

[scenic zinc]

And I'm talking about how multiclass in 2e was leveling both classes at the same time.

[crisp osprey]

Anyone got any opinions on best crowd control items?

[delicate roost]

oh oh! a net? 😄

[scenic zinc]

Whatever casts web

[crisp osprey]

our wizard has that spell

[delicate roost]

get a metal fishing net with a chain leading to your hand. toss it and cast shocking grasp. nods

[scenic zinc]

Why have them waste a spell slot?

[crisp osprey]

true

[scenic zinc]

Have them put it in a scroll

[crisp osprey]

actually, i need to buy healing pots and give them to my teammates so they can feed them to me when i’m wildshape

that the issue, i cant access my inventory 80% of the time

[knotty basin]

Healing as a wild shape seems like a waste

[scenic zinc]

Speaking of which, if you're playing '24, they should also put counterspell into a scroll.

[delicate roost]

sleep spell is a great crowd control too

[scenic zinc]

In '24 your hp doesn't turn into the beasts hp.

[knotty pasture]

Wild Shape charges are so readily available that you should see Wild Shape health as disposable

[scenic zinc]

You keep your own hp.

[knotty basin]

Isn’t it 2 per long rest?

[crisp osprey]

i’m the only tank of the party, and i can take an ally’s dmg as my own as a reaction, so i can be drained pretty fast

[scenic zinc]

If your dm allows this, that's cool - but mechanically that's not how potions work. You can't give them, you can only take them.

[crisp osprey]

i currently have 108hp at lvl 4, and i just multiclassed a lvl in barbarian for Rage

[knotty basin]

Ok, but what kinda DM plays by RAW 100%

[delicate roost]

as a dm, i would allow a character to use an action to forcefeed another character, but id debate if it also takes an action to swallow the potion, burning two actions

[knotty basin]

If they did, that would invalidate the need for a DM in the first place

[crisp osprey]

hell, our dm lets us chuck them at each other, but we take 1d4 glass dmg before healing

[scenic zinc]

Many. I'm not arguing they should - only commenting on what the item does as written.

[crimson gulch]

The rules for healing potions cover administering them

[knotty basin]

I’ve never seen this

[scenic zinc]

Did that change in '24?

[delicate roost]

Mm what about getting a humanoid shaped familiar and using your bonus action to command it to feed you a healing potion...

[knotty pasture]

Yeah but there's no real consequence to dropping to 0 hp while Wild Shaped, so it should be treated as temporary hp

[crimson gulch]

Been like that since 2014

[scenic zinc]

Drinking or administering a potion takes an action.

Hey look at that I was wrong

Cool. I like that.

[knotty pasture]

And Druid can really take a beating with all that effective hp it could have at the start of a day

[knotty basin]

The consequence is being within melee range without wildshape

[crisp osprey]

my subclass says that if i run out of hp, unshift and fall into death rolls.

[knotty pasture]

What subclass is this again

[knotty basin]

What subclass is this?

[crisp osprey]

in exchange for matching my max ho in temp hp

[scenic zinc]

That's not true at all in '24

[crisp osprey]

Circle of Dragons, Griffin’s Saddlebag Ed

[knotty basin]

Also not being able to fly or whatever else utility features you might need

[woven flint]

Glopr

[knotty basin]

Ah, 3rd party.

[scenic zinc]

In '24 you don't change hp at all. You just gain a tiny amount of temp hp.

[crisp osprey]

i’m a big dmg sponge, without many other actions. But damn is it fun

[knotty basin]

Isn’t it the other way around? That’s the 2014 ver

[scenic zinc]

No, it's not.

[delicate roost]

i am down for hte wand lore wizard in that book and the bard mercintile subclass. I love the idea of flinging coins at people and doing thunder damage 😄

[knotty basin]

You’re right, I’m tired

[crisp osprey]

lol

[scenic zinc]

It's okay - I just got the potion thing wrong lol

[knotty pasture]

Oh right the person in question is playing 2024 right

Cuz I'm not well versed in it, anything I say refers to 2014 only

[knotty basin]

Same

[crisp osprey]

our thunder cleric is strategizing his spells around me, since i can be a blue dragons, then save on aoe spells with my high dex. So i can draw a large crowd, then he can smote them, me included

[scenic zinc]

I'm about to start a '24 druid character next week. That's the only reason I'm a bit better read up on that right now

[woven flint]

I want more interesting Wizard and Bard subclasses tbh
(And just more barbarian subclasses in general lol)

[crimson gulch]

2024 druid is still really good

[delicate roost]

Tokii, have you looked at the wand lore wizard in the griffons saddlebag? its pretty dope

[woven flint]

Wizards:"Wow, we've got a subclass for every school of magic! thats our gimmick! that's our ENTIRE thing!" (I know they have some others but they feel pretty frontloaded with "Our subclasses are the colleges of magic and thats it"

[scenic zinc]

Going with the '24 circle of mutations from the new Grimhollow content

[crisp osprey]

i mean, that’s college

[woven flint]

AT the minimum... Bladesinger is pretty cool and so was Scribes Wizard.

[crimson gulch]

bladesinger war and scribes have all been used a lot in my games

[sleek cloud]

I built a wand lore wizard. Seems interesting at least

New bladesinger is exciting to me

[old sluice]

Just so people know: Potions can be administered to others. Goodberries can't

[woven flint]

I want a Wizard subclass that maybe has something to do with the wizards from Greyhawk or something idk

[delicate roost]

i love the wand charge mechanic. you cast a spell, get a charge then can use them to buff up d20 rolls on a whim

[crisp osprey]

i should find an enchanter who will make me a floating backpack. Basically a Floating Shield, but then i can access it in wildshape

[scenic zinc]

The day I see a dm actually enforce this I'll laugh

[woven flint]

Doesn't change it from being pretty boring, I mean, the subclasses are fun, but it pigeonholds you into ONE type of magic to be your main thing, and, personally? I wouldn't want to do that (So I play a Bladesinger felllow)

[knotty basin]

Then again, why would you eat goodberries mid-combat?

[scenic zinc]

How exactly does it do this?

[crisp osprey]

oh i totally know what you mean. I was making an IRL college joke

[knotty pasture]

Magical items that have something to do with healing perhaps

[crimson gulch]

Wizards are still wizards no matter the sub class

[woven flint]

Weezer-d

[scenic zinc]

It doesn't force you into learning those spells. And in '24 it even does it less so by removing the cost incentive that exists in '14

[crimson gulch]

They have the biggest spell list of all, they just get some bonus spells now of their school

[scenic zinc]

Which I think was the right call rather than making that given school cheaper.

[old sluice]

I enforce it. All the DMs I played with enforce it.

[knotty basin]

I’m pretty certain you’re joking

[scenic zinc]

In my opinion? A silly hill. It's 1hp and takes a whole action.

An absolute waste of a turn.

[crimson gulch]

I think I have seen a goodberry used in combat once

[scenic zinc]

And fully ignores the "improvised action" that the rules describe

[old sluice]

I am not.

[crimson gulch]

I can see enforcing that if someone was trying the old life cleric goodberry combo

[scenic zinc]

Playing dnd as though it's a video game where you're limited to only what the system says is... oddly restricting.

[fossil hollow]

i live

[woven flint]

Shoots you

Nah, mate, you dead.

[fossil hollow]

[System:] Death Ward activates

[crimson gulch]

That would have been a good spell to use allright

[woven flint]

we're in an anti-magic field, brother, why do you think I brought a gun when I can cast spells usually?

[fossil hollow]

wait is there no session today?

[brave sable]

Hey I am brand new in the game and looking for groups to play and teach me (I am desperate) 🥺🙏🙏🙏

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[knotty basin]

They might want #learn-to-play first

[crimson gulch]

Nah I'm home sick

[scenic zinc]

Because you're obviously playing as an artificer.

[fossil hollow]

oh damn, hope ya get better soon!

[scenic zinc]

You should go home if you miss it so much

[crimson gulch]

I am

[scenic zinc]

-# i like stupid jokes

[crimson gulch]

I'm under blankets and cats with a cup of tea. Oh wait i see what you did over thar

[fossil hollow]

thats the first dad joke ive seen you crack

[scenic zinc]

Surely, that can't be true.

[fossil hollow]

nah

[old sluice]

Oh they can fully improvise an action to feed someone a goodberry. It's just that since the person did not use their own action, that does nothing. No HP regained

Not sure why they would do that.

[scenic zinc]

Again, the silliest of hills.

[old sluice]

Though... Goodberry is a bonus action now, right?

[fossil hollow]

nope. also where the hill giants

[crimson gulch]

There put to lunch

[scenic zinc]

Apparently Warding off the ability to gain a singular hp.

[old sluice]

Bonus action to eat, yep

[fossil hollow]

so its a... silent hill today then eh?

[scenic zinc]

Perhaps they're climbing a pyramid.

They got a head start.

You should go after them. It's hard to see. It's a bit foggy.

[fossil hollow]

[Thats the extend of my Silent Hill knowledge]

oh look, its our favorite fiend

[hot marlin]

Where? I got my divine smite prepared!

[scenic zinc]

Stop hitting yourself

[hot marlin]

What are we talking about here?

[fossil hollow]

making silent hill puns

i ran out though, never watched/played

[hot marlin]

Magic cursed town. Bad people confront their inner demons. And actual outer demons. Not much else to say

[fossil hollow]

sounds like Baldur's Gate

[hot marlin]

It's a rather simple premise.

[scenic zinc]

One where if you enter, you don't leave.

[hot marlin]

Well... Bad people. Debatable.

[scenic zinc]

So, you never ran out. Because you can't.

[fossil hollow]

-# oh on the topic of fiends and BG, what subclass were yo thinking for yer Avernus wiz?

[hot marlin]

Oh it started with a goodberry argument?

[fossil hollow]

parently

[hot marlin]

I'm gonna do something I never did before. Have a character start without knowing the subclass they'll take and make it a dilemma for the character

[fossil hollow]

sweet (pain)

[scenic zinc]

Not really an argument so much as me saying I think it's silly to prevent a single hp from being restored. If they want to waste their action on that, does it actually create an issue? In my opinion, no.

[knotty pasture]

Warlock sounds like a good choice here

You don't know who your patron is for some reason

[hot marlin]

And I will only pick a subclass that makes sense. A subclass where the character has a valid reason to learn the tricks of it

[sleek cloud]

I’ve had so much decision paralysis with my invocation choices on warlock

[hot marlin]

Meaning: The DM will decide which subclasses are "unlocked" for me. Dragon Age style.

[timid current]

Why don't you?

[scenic zinc]

Armor of Shadows and another one.

[knotty pasture]

Its in response to this prompt

[hot marlin]

Well... It doesn't create an issue no. But RAW it's correct.

[timid current]

Aha

[sleek cloud]

Oh hey Dave

[timid current]

Evening

[scenic zinc]

Right. Which is why it isn't really a problem if it's allowed and I've never seen anyone actually not allow it.

[hot marlin]

Some people just stick to RAW as a matter of principle.

[timid current]

RAW is an excellent starting point for conversation

[scenic zinc]

#dnd-discussion message

[sleek cloud]

But anyways, I wanted specifically to not just be a 2nd copy of the current established warlock that was doing pact of the blade stuff for a ranged build but they got dm permission to redo their build so now they’re going part lock part bard so now I just decided to be the radiant gunslinging pact of the blade celestial warlock of the group

+2 revolvers are nice, gun allowed campaigns can really change things up when they’re 2d8 per shot and rifles are 2d10

Hope I live this saturday…

[hot marlin]

OK so I have just one counterpoint. I don't disagree in principle, I think everyone does their own thing. But... Restrictions are good.

Which might be the thing I have said the most in this server

[scenic zinc]

I agree. Which is why RAW is a starting point, not necessarily an end point.

[hot marlin]

That and my denial of certain allegations

[scenic zinc]

It would help if your name wasn't fiendish.

[sleek cloud]

I think the thing I’ve said most in the servers probably “give assassin rogues d10 sneak attack die, they should be the subclass that’s best at doing damage since they’re not really doing better than other rogues after round 1 of combat”

[fossil hollow]

or if you didnt have such a extensive knowledge of the lower planes

[sleek cloud]

Except roving aim

[hot marlin]

I have read both Fiendish Codices!

I know the lower plane like... An academic. Not a native.

I wouldn't be able to tell you what the best restaurant in Hades is!

[fossil hollow]

thats not denying the allegations. arcanoloths can claim the same

[woven flint]

Fiend...

[scenic zinc]

The assassin rogue subclass should just be scrapped. It was terrible in '14 and in '24 it could have been fixed if they'd kept the assassination feature along with how they changed surprised... but didn't.

[sleek cloud]

The best restaurant in hades is obviously gonna be P.F Changs

[hot marlin]

Though there is an argument to be made that the best restaurant in Hades is McDonald's.

Yes they have many franchises open in the lower planes, what do you expect?

[fossil hollow]

im fairly sure not even Hades would stoop that low

he seems more like a... more organic typa guy

[undone fable]

What is your opinion on drakewarden?

[hot marlin]

Ever since the demon lord of cannibals got locked up, things have been dire for the food industry in the lower planes.

[sleek cloud]

I’m also particularly not a fan of envenom weapons when poisons already such a problematic damage type to begin with

[fossil hollow]

ig you cant rely on the gluttonous king Jubi to make a good reccomendation

[humble cairn]

It was changed, though?

It no longer relies on Surprise at all.

[sleek cloud]

McDonald’s in hades but the ice cream machine is always down, they kept condiments on your burger that you asked them to take off, and the fries are always soggy by the time you get them. Now that would track.

[hot marlin]

Yeah. Poison is not good for damage. Poisons are good for the debilitating effects they can give. And that's only on creatures not immune to the condition

[sleek cloud]

And with it being a lvl 13 feature rogues would likely already be running into that problem decently often

[hot marlin]

You would think the assassin subclass might capitalize more on that

[fossil hollow]

cant wait to see poison be useless in the hells

[scenic zinc]

That's the problem.

[fossil hollow]

or fire. what will the party do without fireball

[sleek cloud]

I’ve been seeing it happen all year

all.year.

[woven flint]

Me, The Barbarian:
"I dunno, just beat the hell out of it!"

[fickle heart]

That feel when 5.14 Assassin was a really flavorful subclass entirely kneecapped by Rogue's awful subclass progression.

[hot marlin]

But... Thinking about it, don't goodberries make reviving downed PCs too easy? Ten goodberries give you ten free revivals. Without a roll, all in a single spell slot.

[scenic zinc]

I actively hate that the poison cunning strike doesn't incur poison damage on the Poisoned enemy each turn while they have the condition

[hot marlin]

That is indeed a bit stupid

[fossil hollow]

imagine waiting 6 levels. for a shit feature that wont see much use in most campaigns

[scenic zinc]

If you're relying on that, you've got bigger problems.

[sleek cloud]

One of the highlights of the campaign I’m in, to summarize, was a group plan to deceive a devil into releasing someone and as soon as we enter the room the artificer just throws a fire bolt at them for 0 damage and they proceed to get just about immediately impaled

[fickle heart]

I honestly think the feature was gr8, but the real issue was the waiting.

[past blaze]

when the subclass has no combat features between levels 3 and 14

[sleek cloud]

Love dnd

[hot marlin]

Fair enough!

Anyways, gonna grab a bite and head to bed.

[sleek cloud]

Oh, 5.14. I like that.

[hot marlin]

Ping me if an alignment argument starts

[fossil hollow]

bingo

[scenic zinc]

Hi

-# jk, also going to sleep

[fossil hollow]

its only 8 pm. its party time

(yes, i know people have other time zones)

[fickle heart]

5.14 Assassin Rogue is one of those subclasses that makes you truly feel like that type of character, and I'm actually fine with the idea that it lacks a lot of direct combat features, trading them for specific features that help in its role. Alas, 5e isn't really designed for that type of play anymore.

[sleek cloud]

Azerick has already failed one save and now has the incapacitated condition

[scenic zinc]

I have to get to work at 4am tomorrow, young whippersnapper

[woven flint]

Time for your familiar to be ceremoniously executed because the entire party hates her

[fossil hollow]

fine. summoning my quasit named Miraja

[woven flint]

You want Sovis to hate you, don't you?

[fossil hollow]

(she has an even fouler mouth when she's extremely pissed)

[rough basalt]

Yeah 5e14s Assassin wasn't built for the kind of system 5e is

[fossil hollow]

hey, i can change their creature type. Celestial Quasit

[woven flint]

Still a Quasit.

[fickle heart]

I think it was built for what 5e was, but not is.

[fossil hollow]

but a celestial one!

[woven flint]

Still the shape and soul of a field, friend

[fossil hollow]

not if shes in bat form

[rough basalt]

I don't think 5e ever was about sitting in one single city the whole campaign

[fossil hollow]

cant be mad at a bat, can ya?

[woven flint]

Sovis doesn't have a pact familiar specifically because he finds familiars annoying

[fossil hollow]

:3

[rough basalt]

Like the campaign duo that stays in one city for 20 levels 15 of those is in a dungeon

[crimson gulch]

I have done several city based campaigns

[fickle heart]

Assassin is a lot better in a less forgiving world, in the sense that a single Deception check doesn't magically make you have papers for another person, y'know?

[woven flint]

"Why do I need a familiar to be my personality when I can do all the lifting myself?"

[rough basalt]

And designing a Subclass around that hyperniche style of game led to it being one of the jokes.

[fickle heart]

Jokes on you, I actually think more subclasses being designed around a niche makes for better game design.

[rough basalt]

I disagree in a game like 5e

[fossil hollow]

talking horts :( Abyssal is the only language that doesnt mess with her already damage vocal cords :(

[crimson gulch]

The subclass is based around crit fishing for surprise

[fickle heart]

At this point in time, I think I could probably cram most of the subclasses in the game into minimal actual subclasses.

Genericize those themes across classes, and voila.

[sleek cloud]

Yknow, I also would’ve been ok if assassin rogues got the same crit range progression that champions get instead of sneak attack die changes

[rough basalt]

I think that players should be allowed to use their Subclass features

[woven flint]

You're lucky someone in the party can actually speak abyssal

[fossil hollow]

i got like, 5 languages

[undone fable]

I love abyssal! its one of my favorite languages in dnd. Next to druidic and thieves' Cant!

[fossil hollow]

i only speak abyssal because its the only one you know. that isnt common

[fickle heart]

I agree, though I think that not every subclass should fit for every game.

[rough basalt]

And in 2014 you couldn't use your subclass features a lot of the time with some Subclasses, Assassin being a prominent one

[woven flint]

He speaks
Common, Undercommon, Elvish, Abyssal and Sign Language (but specifically the drow's sign language)

[fossil hollow]

... nevermind, we could have gone with undercommon

[rough basalt]

I think this is fine in a game like PF where there's ungodly amounts of character options that you can make certain characters work without being forced into irrelevancy.

[undone fable]

Would it be offputting to have druidic and thieves' cant on a character?

[fickle heart]

That's why I say that I don't think that every subclass should fit for every game, ya.

[woven flint]

He could have also learned Infernal through his close encounters with fiends as a kid, but he refused to learn it.
He learned Abyssal out of necessity

[fossil hollow]

Abyssal, Common, Common Sign Language, Draconic, Undercommon

[rough basalt]

I just can't agree.
I think player options should have a wide berth

[old sluice]

Sometimes I wonder about D&D languages. Which ones are polysynthetic? Which ones are analytic? Which ones are agglutinative?

[fickle heart]

I mean, you can have a wide berth of options without making every subclass fit for every game.

[rough basalt]

Yeah, but not while keeping it a streamlined game imo

[woven flint]

The Drow language is apparently a bit of Elvish, Abyssal and Underclmmon

[old sluice]

That doesn't say much about how it is structured

[fickle heart]

To be clear, setting-specific subclasses and the like are perfect examples of what I'm getting at.

[woven flint]

It doesn't, but it's interesting ig

[rough basalt]

I guess I can see, but I don't think PHB options should be barred from games by design

[fickle heart]

It depends on what game/campaign style is being played, tbh.

[spare fog]

I'm here for a good linguistics discussion. The Drow language, or Ilythiiri, is a structured language with a Subject-Object-Verb (SOV) word order, borrowed from or similar to Elven

[old sluice]

Sure. And it makes sense. Drows are elves who live underground and have religious proximity with demons. It only makes sense that it would evolve into its own language over time.

[spare fog]

Different than English's SVO order

[rough basalt]

And that's my problem.
PHB should be playable in the general game

[old sluice]

Sounds like a fusional language! Like the latin ones

[odd pike]

Hey there everyone, I was wondering where is the open dnd groups

[fickle heart]

How would you define "the general game"?

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[crimson gulch]

Not every option is going to be optimal for everyone in every situation, variety is good

[odd pike]

Also is it worth paying a dungeon master for a dnd experience

[rough basalt]

I doubt most games are sitting in cities for the whole entire time

[woven flint]

@fossil hollow
I was mulling over what we should do before we head to Menzobarrenzenafter we solve whatevers going on in Astral Space and I think our best bet would be to get hats of disguises for everyone who isn't a Drow and let Sovis do most of the talking lol

[spare fog]

imo no

[rough basalt]

They might use the same hub, but they're not there permanently

[fossil hollow]

i think i got disguise self

myself

[fickle heart]

This assumes that Assassin only gets use in cities, which it definitely doesn't.

[rough basalt]

Yeah at level 3 and 17

[woven flint]

I think a hat of disguise would be better because it could function longer term, we're probably gonna be in Menzo for quite some time

[sleek cloud]

Ti, where is this part you said earlier about changing your quasits creature type to celestial

[fickle heart]

Honestly, I would chalk this up to a lack of player skill, which is honestly okay for a system that is valued around creativity.

[fossil hollow]

true, and it doesnt eat spell slots

[sleek cloud]

Or did you just mean regular familiars

[fickle heart]

Is Assassin strong? Definitely not. Does it have a very high ceiling for player skill due to how you creatively use its features? Definitely.

[fossil hollow]

its part of find familiar and pact of hte chain

[rough basalt]

On some level, but how does player skill account for needing 7 days

[meager fractal]

What would you want from a potential 6e?

[fickle heart]

A skilled player is likely to predict that need, tbh.

[rough basalt]

So a skilled player is gonna make their DM take away the time gate?

[sleek cloud]

I know it’s part of find familiar, I suppose I just never realized it extended to the pact of the chain ones as well. Interesting

[rough basalt]

Ig you could blackmail the dm

[fickle heart]

A skilled player is going to make the time gate not a problem by virtue of predicting the need for those identities.

[sleek cloud]

That would’ve made me change some build decisions

[rough basalt]

Threaten to tell the players he fudged a roll unless he makes that bbeg wait a week

Except that requires knowing information.

[fickle heart]

And thus, player skill.

[rough basalt]

And a DM probably ain't gonna have the 5 levels ahead quest up on the table for them to see

[fickle heart]

It's a wee bit odd in a 5e sense, but it's not particularly hard to actually have a system account for player skill.

[old sluice]

I have trouble imagining a game where getting a week to do your stuff is difficult

[rough basalt]

I've pretty much never been in a game where that's been allowed

If there's a week, it's probably like a month or longer downtime

[humble cairn]

I can. One-shots where it's a heist, other high action fast paced games.

[old sluice]

I've had downtime last a year.

[old sluice]

Yeah you're right. Let me correct: I have trouble imagining a long campaign where getting a week to do your stuff is difficult

[rough basalt]

I just can't ever agree that players should be forced into certain Subclasses cause their other options can't work without constantly hyperanalyzing your DM or irl investigating them

[fickle heart]

I think you have it backwards, tbh.

[rough basalt]

I think that's what I'm understanding

You need to investigate your DM, find his notes so that you can prepare ahead of time.
Come to think of it, very assassinly thing to do

[fickle heart]

Framing it as being forced "into" certain subclasses is the exact opposite of what I'm getting at. I'm saying that certain subclasses likely don't fit every game and that should be understood as early parts of the campaign.

[rough basalt]

And you can end up forced into others

[humble cairn]

Which is more of a "forcing out" than a forcing in.

[rough basalt]

Like 2014 Barbarian was forced into Totem Warrior if they didn't wanna spend most of the game with an exhaustion point or more

[fleet jay]

Are all undead only semi intelligent?

[humble cairn]

No

[rough basalt]

Undead intelligence varies on the undead

[fleet jay]

Sorry misconceptions, i meant revived undead by necromancer

[humble cairn]

Vampires and Mummy Lords are fairly intelligent.

[rough basalt]

Zombies for example are as smart as animals, but Death Knights are as smart as they were when they were people.

[fickle heart]

I think it's also worthwhile to mention that assuming the absolute worst of every possible design decision makes for pretty bad discourse, considering one can largely do the same thing for new design directions.

Imagine the middle of the line, not the worst.

[rough basalt]

Sure but I can't agree with only allowing one character option by design

It should be a fair choice

[fleet jay]

Like is there a chance pile of bones suddenly talk

[fickle heart]

Aye, but I never actually said there would be one, which is why I'm saying to not assume the worst.

You are assuming I'm referring to a single option being usable, when I never said that, nor would actually say that.

[rough basalt]

That's what I was understanding

[fossil hollow]

i mean, just look at the statblocks

[fickle heart]

Which is why asking for clarification is often more important than just disagreeing with a hypothetical you maybe aren't understanding

The inverse is that I could say I can't understand why you'd disagree with one option out of 25 being niche, or something to that matter.

[rough basalt]

Alright I can agree.
But I still can't agree with having options that only fit certain games being in the core book

[humble cairn]

Am I summarizing the two of you somewhat correctly?
Tamms: Not every subclass is appropriate for every campaign
Sora: No subclass should be designed so badly that it is not ever a viable choice
Because these two points are not at cross purposes.

[fleet jay]

Int six 6,surprisingly high, like gnoll

[fickle heart]

They are not diametrically opposed, yup, and they shouldn't be considered to be that way.

[fleet jay]

Can be intelligent enough to talk perhaps

[rough basalt]

Basic speech yeah

[fickle heart]

Just because there is wood paint, that doesn't mean that you can't get other types of paint.

[humble cairn]

I don't think every subclass is appropriate for every campaign, even from the core book. But that's not from bad core design, it's from the fact that every game is different and could be so different that even base assumption PHB subclasses might be inappropriate for the game.

[woven flint]

I think the main problem with Assassin Rogue is that it's pretty much the
"You better hope you roll good on initiative"
Subclass

[rough basalt]

I guess, but I don't like it

[fleet jay]

Also,

[humble cairn]

You don't like that every person's game is free to be radically different from everyone else's?

[fickle heart]

Certain settings even disqualify classes by virtue of their source material.

[fleet jay]

Well i think its better to ask in dms dis

[rough basalt]

I don't like that you have to rely on said persons radical choice being lucky enough that it let's you play a Subclass you've been wanting to play for years that comes from a corebook

[humble cairn]

Then you just .. don't join that campaign?

[rough basalt]

Yeah, but how long will it take before you can finally play something cause only say 1/10 games will even consider its features usable.

[humble cairn]

I mean, when I DM I don't want players coming to Session 0 with fully developed characters anyway.

[fickle heart]

I think I'd need to understand the underlying assumptions being used that assumes said hypothetical subclass is barely usable.

Assassin, for example, is mostly harmed by Rogue's terrible progression, not necessarily the features themselves.

[rough basalt]

Then you might get to a point where you just give up that you eventually find a game that allows it and you don't even remember you wanted to play it

[humble cairn]

This sounds super specific and not necessarily something that can even feasibly be addressed by design.

[fickle heart]

Sure, but the (false) alternative is that if every piece of content is homogeneous you might give up playing the game all together.

[empty thicket]

wait, 2014 rogue?¿

[rough basalt]

Ig I prefer the illusion of variety over being locked to one thing

[humble cairn]

There's no perfect "Every player choice is unique but also perfectly suited for every game that is going to be run" option.

[empty thicket]

i want to involve in the convo and i need that context

[fickle heart]

Respectfully, this is definitely a false dilemma.

If we had to choose between illusion of variety and being locked to one thing, it would be different.

[rough basalt]

I still think that's what you're getting at

[fickle heart]

You gotta think a lot bigger picture

Though if you're curious of my mindset, I do have a 32 page design document that may help.

[rough basalt]

Bigger picture says "let's make everything hyperniche so that when a campaign is made everyone picks the one subclass that fits"

[fickle heart]

Bigger picture is that there is gray area between those things.

[knotty pasture]

Usually ban lists aren't that big right either right? I'm not completely opposed to ban lists as long as its minor

[raw ocean]

The only homebrew I truly instantly deny is self-made, 99% of the time it's busted unless they are experienced

[knotty pasture]

No banning half the roster for no apparent reason, but if one wants to take out Twilight Cleric because its too op go for it

[fickle heart]

In a balance sense, this discussion would be "everything in the game inherently either sucks or is amazing."

[rough basalt]

We're talking stuff designed by WotC in a way that can feel like it's use is barred from games due to hyperspecific features

[fickle heart]

This may be a pretty 5e mindset, as my overall experience has been that players use the tools they choose/are given, and the real key is making sure those tools get decent use in a general fantasy context.

[woven flint]

I don't think Twilight Cleric is broken and people seem to overestimate or overreact about its apparent power

[old sluice]

I don't think anyone is entitled to play the thing they have wanted to play for years. I think you should play something that fits the campaign

[raw ocean]

I have never seen a glassblower's tools ever used in my entire D&D career

[rough basalt]

I think that stuff shouldnt be designed in a way that it bars itself from games

[humble cairn]

Honestly I feel like nothing in 5E even going back to 2014 PHB only games was so bad that it was unplayable, most of it was player anti-hype.

[old sluice]

And you may never find a campaign where the thing you have wanted to play. And I don't think that's a problem

[fickle heart]

Unfortunately, this is inevitable. The best designer can't avoid this, and they shouldn't try to.

[knotty pasture]

Oh yeah in those cases I may homebrew/improvise those features or just ignore them as a whole

Cavalier needs a mount for one of its features, but if there's no mount that's a different story (doesn't impact its overall viability that much but it is a dead feature)

[rough basalt]

I cant agree with that they shouldnt, for a game like 5e however

[humble cairn]

Berserker was problematic, but still playable. Assassin had issues, still playable. Ranger '14 had issues, still eminently playable. All of those were still fun to play.

[fickle heart]

The thing is, it's still not actually possible to do, and there's a lot of flops of this in even 5e.

[rough basalt]

I think Berserker was shot and left to die

[rough basalt]

Yeah and thats why they're trying to fix them at least

[old sluice]

To be fair, I'm not sure I have ever seen any class option being barred from games

[humble cairn]

Nah, plenty of people played it and had tons of fun.

[fickle heart]

But they can't truly fix them, because what you are describing is a fundamental aspect of game design.

[rough basalt]

Like Arcane Archer was the last of the "flavor is enough to make up for design that wants to make you bang your head against the wall"

[woven flint]

My Cavaliers mount died last session 😔

[rough basalt]

Then im happy for you

[woven flint]

Sora killed him!
He killed my horse, man! >:[ /hj

[old sluice]

Like seriously, what is really barred?

[knotty pasture]

That feature always felt rather clunky/situational to me, mounts cost some money and you can't possibly bring a horse into a cramped dungeon

[rough basalt]

Then im happy for them, but you cant ignore that people wanted it better so they made it better

[rough basalt]

something that is disallowed by nature in this context

[empty thicket]

welp, what you can expect? its kinda...meh
im seeing its features and its, info about some glass, info about some potions and that it is.
Unless you are in a place that glass is expensive and is cheaper to make it for yourself or you want to make bottles for something.

[fickle heart]

Do you have an example?

[old sluice]

Yes. A concrete example please?

[knotty pasture]

So if homebrewing/improvising can address said feature especially in an environment with no mounts, why not

[old sluice]

Oops. Answered the wrong message

[fickle heart]

I'm not trying to seem combative, but I'd look into the Nirvana fallacy, which is the idea that some idealized and unrealistic standard is the only thing that is acceptable, even when it's not actually possible to accomplish.

[empty thicket]

jejejej, np np

[humble cairn]

Yeah, they patched up a lot of the glaring issues with 2024. Anyone who thinks any of the player choices are just auto-banned for being unplayable have encountered those weird sweaty optimization groups.

[fickle heart]

To be clear, 5.24 still fails against the "perfect problem" metric, so it's not really fair to simultaneously argue that they are fixing that, when the thing itself can't be fixed.

[humble cairn]

Sorry, I'm probably being a little judgemental.

[rough basalt]

Old berserker, if you wanted to use your frenzy that meant no more skill checks for you if you wanna help your party
new berserker, you sacrifice advantage for more damage while keeping advantage against you as a dangerous tradeoff.
No being taken out of the out of combat with an exhaustion point, but you're still risking your life and limb

[empty thicket]

sadly you cant have like access to this paladin spell that give you a mount for "free".

[fickle heart]

Funny enough, Barbarian didn't really have good skill checks in the first place, so it wasn't a big issue then.

[knotty pasture]

Ask your Paladin to pass the mount to you lol

[empty thicket]

If there is one

[red steppe]

Phantom Steed kek

[rough basalt]

Perhaps, so do you think they shouldve kept it?

New exhaustion isnt as bad sure

[empty thicket]

that is another thing, i was seeing from a lot of campaigns, mounts arent a total thing

[fickle heart]

With how 5e got powercrept? Nah, that downside for that upside is too much.

[humble cairn]

Mounts are great, but most options are way too frail for even late Tier 2 combat.

[fickle heart]

Is it possible to have downsides? Definitely.

[rough basalt]

yes and downsides are good

[fickle heart]

Keep in mind that there are very few absolutes in design. The vast majority of stuff is gray area, which is why we have to think of design as huge gray areas if we want nuance.

[raw ocean]

A griffon is a pretty good mount in my opinion

[empty thicket]

let me guess, 10k gold?

no wait, 25k gold

[raw ocean]

Maybe like 2K for an egg

[humble cairn]

Also remember tha horses are a griffon's preferred prey item.

[rough basalt]

and at what point does the grey area just end up the extreme anyways without you realizing it

[knotty pasture]

Yknow one homebrew attempt I've seen is to replace the mount feature with a free dash on the first turn of combat + a passive 25% fall damage resistance

[raw ocean]

You can always just tame a griffon

[fickle heart]

That's where design experience comes in.

[knotty pasture]

Which I think is pretty cool, like a rush down version of the Gloom Stalker Ranger

[empty thicket]

5 eggs for the chance of a griffon because i know my unlucky booty wont get it at first.

[rough basalt]

Like "I want everything to be niche" leads to everything being niche which means theres only 1 correct option every time

[knotty pasture]

Flavoring wise you can just call it "the Cavalier channels the spirit of their favourite mount, gaining a burst of speed blah blah"

[raw ocean]

Isen't it literally impossible to balance D&D without just making everything the same?

[fickle heart]

I would think a bit harder about that statement and question if that's actually a truthful result or if that's maybe an oversimplification.

[knotty pasture]

I think that's just most games in general, let alone dnd

[humble cairn]

This is kind of the crux of the discussion at the moment.

[empty thicket]

the thing i feel with the idea of mounts is, in combat unless you are in a really big area or need the constant use of a vehicle. They are heard... kinda waste

[knotty pasture]

True balance makes the game v monotone, something has to win/lose

[raw ocean]

So what's the point of discussing an impossible subject?

[knotty pasture]

Discussion is always fun

[humble cairn]

Learning how each other thinks about it.

[knotty pasture]

Also that would invalidate my side project for a video game if balance is a pointless topic

[raw ocean]

Balance should exist but it's never gonna be perfect

[rough basalt]

I cant agree with forcing players into certain pidgeonholes by making everything a hyperniche that fills one specific slot

[humble cairn]

Okay? Was .. anyone suggesting that?

[rough basalt]

Thats what I was getting and I'm not really getting anything else

[fickle heart]

Sora, respectfully, I think you need to listen/ask questions a bit more comprehensively than responding quickly.

[empty thicket]

The idea would be making it like some sort of rock paper scissors for me.
The thing is making a class good in his own way

[minor cargo]

In design, sometimes we talk about “difference in kind” and “difference in scale” - which comes down to that sometimes things aren’t balanced because they can’t be compared.

Class features in D&D kind of straddle both categories and that’s what makes it hard to dissect fully.

That said, one thing that I think trumps both in terms of discussion is how it “plays” (by which I mean how do actual players feel when they actually play). A few anecdotes were given above but some other thoughts I think are just hypotheses?

[fickle heart]

The fact that you are only getting that is partially a failure on my explanations, perhaps, but jumping to those conclusions is also a failure on not asking for clarification.

[raw ocean]

What?

[fickle heart]

Put another way, you haven't actually asked me anything that would let you make a better conclusion. You are just disagreeing with what you think I'm saying, without trying to understand if that's actually what I'm saying.

It's impossible for me to help you understand what I'm trying to get at if you don't actually want to understand what I'm trying to get at.

[empty thicket]

question, there is any item that can be an indestructible chain?

[rough basalt]

Aight so do you think 2024 Berserker shouldve kept exhaustion points with its new frenzy because its flavorful to be exhausted after losing your temper severely

Ig that dont work cause exhaustion itself went from the end of the world out the gate to a slow insidious killer

[fickle heart]

With its new Frenzy? No. At the same time, I think that we're approaching new Berserker from a flawed perspective if we're just thinking that we wouldn't account for said Exhaustion in the Berserker's design, causing potential changes to the entire subclass if it was introduced.

[old sluice]

That's just not something being "barred" at all.

[fickle heart]

If someone said "How would you imagine a Berserker Barbarian if it had Exhaustion tied to Frenzy?" I would respond with some variation of "Well, I'd probably end up redoing most of the subclass with that in mind."

[old sluice]

That's something being unoptimal

[rough basalt]

Well that was 2014s issue with it wasnt it? It wasnt healthy to be that penalized just for an extra attack

[old sluice]

In what world is being unoptimal the same as being barred?

[fickle heart]

Hindsight is 20/20, yar.

[humble cairn]

Overall it's a good thing if a player can choose something that makes their character unique. But this does imply that they will be able to do something that another character cannot. This immediately sets up a system where some characters can do some things and other characters can do other things. Depending on the "things" that each campaign will ask characters to do, some character choices may be left out. This is inherently just an issue that the game designer cannot account for unless they very specifically control the rules for what kinds of games can be run.

[rough basalt]

Yeah like 2014 Ranger

[fickle heart]

Wonderfully said. It's not an actually solvable problem.

[rough basalt]

A noticable amount of the community treated exploration rules like they didn't exist, and those that did, there's Goodberry (not a cureall but some people treat it as such)