dnd-discussion

[jovial badger]

druids are also very underrated

[upper junco]

half orc is also great, ill have to try variant human sometime

[jovial badger]

(a light gnome snack flashbacks)

[shy stirrup]

Dragons of Stormwreck Isle

[upper junco]

if its too hard you can always go easy or bend the rules a bit

[jovial badger]

thanks for the suggestion!

maybe xiandras crypt for 1-2 sessions to get them into it then a longer one?

[ivory shale]

I'm not the cleric in that but the cleric player got screwed hard.

One is the armor thing.

Second is his backstory is the cleric is an amnesiac. DM just homebrewed that character without first discussing it with him.

Like he added a feature where the cleric has a special d20 check ( before he rolls anything that related to the spell). If he pass it he could cast it. If not, the spell fails because hes amnesiac backstory makes hik forget how to cast the spell.

[jovial badger]

almost as bad as rolling an 8 for every stat

[shy stirrup]

"DM just homebrewed that character without first discussing it with him."
This

[jovial badger]

dm gotta go 🥀

[upper junco]

thats just wild

[ivory shale]

I think i left the game when he asked us to reduce the weight of the waterskin whenever we drank from it.

[upper junco]

[ivory shale]

Yea, he seems like the survival type i guess

[jovial badger]

bahahahha

encumbrance is one of the worst features, change my mind

[ivory shale]

But i came to play dnd not bags and pockets

[ivory shale]

No need to change your mind because i think almost everyone thinks the same

[shy stirrup]

I'd have to change my mind first, it's always been a pain to manage, even with VTT's that can auto-calc the weights, it's usually handwaved unless it gets unreasonable, tho some D&D clones have solutions like a CRPG-style slot inventory system

[jovial badger]

as a kobold you really cant carry much more than like 10 pounds without collapsing so i hate encumbrance with a passion

[north sun]

hi everyone, I am new to D & D

can anyone help me ?

[cinder timber]

i got too much to think about to track that lol

[north sun]

How to play and everything

[jovial badger]

what aspect?

[north sun]

everything !! I have player handbook pdf, DM Handbook pdf & Monster guide PDF, But its getting complicated !!

[zenith wind]

I recommend dropping into a game raw for an introductory one shot, best way to learn is being guided by an experienced dm

[jovial badger]

have you made a character?

[north sun]

well, in india no one knows about the game, they have just heard about it through "STRANGER THINGS"

[north sun]

nope, how can I ?

[jovial badger]

i would recommend dnd beyond

[north sun]

after that ??

[jovial badger]

wym?

[north sun]

after making a character, wht should I do ?

[jovial badger]

learn your abilities, then do a campaign with an experienced dm

[north sun]

but I though, this game can be played offline too 🥀

[jovial badger]

it can

[noble basin]

Yes like at a table with friends

[jovial badger]

youd need to print out a sheet

[north sun]

could just tell me the list of what I need ??

[zenith wind]

It is not a single player game

[limber trail]

It can, but if you're struggling to find groups to play with locally you might have an easier time online

[jovial badger]

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/5E_CharacterSheet_Fillable.pdf

[north sun]

just this ??

[jovial badger]

thats the printable version

[north sun]

If I learn I can teach others too, but first I need to know all things I need to play the game offline

[north sun]

all 3 pages ??

[real thunder]

U might not need the spell page depending on what class ur playing
Most of it is either not really heeded or a space for you to copy things down

[north sun]

so how many pages out of 3 should I print ? and how many copies ? ( The AI said to have 6 copies )

[gaunt roost]

does dndbeyond really not allow me to build a 2024 character without paying first? Not even a level 1 one?

[real thunder]

I wouldn't recommend asking ai about dnd stuff
Each player will probably want 1 copy of the 3 pages unless they want to use a app/ website (like dnd beyond) for there character sheet

[humble cairn]

They also don't call down holy fire irl, either, but that doesn't seem to be a problem?

[real thunder]

U can build a character u just can't use a bunch of the rules in the game

[north sun]

ok ok, so what is this 5e thing ??

[gaunt roost]

I can only use 2014 rules and then only 1 subclass each, which is both wrong for anything I would want to do, cant even do custom

[humble cairn]

Sure it does, but only the stuff you can access for free, so basically only one subclass per class: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024

[humble cairn]

Weird, try messing with the toggles.

[humble cairn]

Or else try asking in #ddb-support, which is the channel for help operating the Beyond website and character builder.

[real thunder]

U should probably try looking at the things under the "sources" section on the 1st page and make sure the "core rules" option is checked

[errant sphinx]

is there a way to join a game here

[hidden spindle]

I'd first sit down & read the PDF's you have; preferably Player, Dm, & Monsters. In that order. You have all the rules to get started. There's also free Rules.

Next, you'll need to find a way to roll dice, be it physical or digital.

Then players will create a character to play, with actions and decision making, in the world the DM has, which will play out everything else. Its an oversimplification.

There's also #dnd-newcomers

[hidden spindle]

#find-a-game & #looking-for-dm & #looking-for-players

[north sun]

well reading like 1000 pages book ! If it was that easy I would not have been here asking for others help

[hidden spindle]

I understand. Take it a chapter at a time. The new books has been reorganized to make it easier to learn.

[north sun]

can I DM you ?? if u dont mind

[hidden spindle]

No thank you. I'd like it here

[north sun]

well, The books pdf I have, can I send the link here ?

[hidden spindle]

I'm not sure?

Although I am curious what the pdf's are...

[north sun]

I have sent u book cover pls check

[north sun]

well it says player hand book

[hidden spindle]

Yeah. That's the cover for the 2014's 5e.

[rough basalt]

There's no legal pdfs for 5es official content so keep that in mind.

[north sun]

would it help?

[hidden spindle]

The online resources of D&D Beyond has Free Rules for both 2014 & 2024 (current) 5e that's available to all accounts, including free accounts

[hidden spindle]

I thought so too

[hidden spindle]

It would, though I'm skeptical of its contents & legality. I would go through D&D Beyond with a free account for the Free Rules. You'll be able to access two kinds, 2014 & 2024 (current).

The Free Rules do lack some content from the books such as: subclass availability (1 per class vs 4) & Spell availability (339 vs 391)

[north sun]

any youtube video ??

[hidden spindle]

There should be several. You could even watch live plays. Learn by watching it in action

[north sun]

thx buddy

so as a DM i should know hwo to cook stories ?

[hidden spindle]

You're welcome.

Essentially. I'm more keen on rules than storytelling but every time I play, I get better at both

[keen valve]

Could a decanter of endless water theoretically flood the world via magic mouth?
I.e. have a magic mouth say geyser everytime the decanter stops geysering.

[hot gate]

It seems you need to take the Magic action, remove the stopper and speak the command word. Magic mouth can replacte the latter, but not the former two.

[keen valve]

Tbf, it doesn't clarify that the stopper goes back in place, explicitly, but I can see how it could be assumed via the fact that in order to do it again, you would presumably need to remove it again.

What's the one magic thing where you can have like a duplicate of yourself? Could you do it with that?

[hot gate]

You mean a Simulacrum? I guess you could just have a familiar do it too.

[magic grotto]

how to play dnd

[hot gate]

Start here #learn-to-play !

And you can also use #dnd-newcomers for any questions you might have.

[magic grotto]

thx

btw what are the roles like the big mad guy

[keen valve]

I mainly ask because I imagine you could maybe have some sort of BEG (bad evil guy, big doesn't apply here) who kinda just super-villains the players by trying to flood the world (or maybe just a valley, so it isn't so catastrophic.)

[magic grotto]

ive only watched legends of avantris like once

[keen valve]

Is that a D&D thing?

[magic grotto]

yes

they are like yapper guys that play dnd

[keen valve]

Like the McElroy brothers?

[hot gate]

I suppose, but with a single decanter that's a very slow process. Doing it via opening some portal to the elemental planes would probably be faster and more cataclysmic.

[keen valve]

Again, it's too cataclysmic. We wouldn't want it to be that serious, yk? Like it could be, but for a lighthearted adventure? Probably not.

[magic grotto]

how do i join a game

[keen valve]

Hilariously having a patient guy (long-lived one) whose one goal is to slowly flood a single area it much more lighthearted to me. More fit for like a one-shot.

[magic grotto]

how to choose a class

[still plover]

Sounds like a barbarian.

You can find all the details of the different classes here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024/character-classes

[still plover]

There are plenty of useful guides to help you get started in the #dnd-newcomers channel, too.

[magic grotto]

ill tell you what i want

i want a fast and strong charchter that shoots orbs like a black hole thingy idk

[stoic obsidian]

Ummmmm, sir this is a dnd game

[karmic pendant]

i think speed is something that's species dependent

[magic grotto]

what

[karmic pendant]

movement

[magic grotto]

idk what dnd is i just said first thing that comes to mind

[karmic pendant]

i'd say look at the core rules first on dndbeyond

[past canopy]

greetings everyone im also new here , i was wondering.. is there a sister server that has general vs ? i kinda wanted to yap about dnd and akin topics and themes. im filling out my first character sheet today : )

[stoic obsidian]

You can play elements monk, they got a feature that allow you to create an elemental explosion, and you can simply reflavoured as a orb of elemental fury that collapses then explodes

[magic grotto]

nah i got smth else in ming

a barbarian that uhhh

has rings of chaos

[karmic pendant]

what

[magic grotto]

idk

[cosmic roost]

Welcome to Adventure!

Visit #learn-to-play for everything you need to get started!

• [What is D&D?](#learn-to-play message)
• [How does it work?](#learn-to-play message)
• [Where do I join?](#learn-to-play message)
• [Frequently Asked Questions](#learn-to-play message)

Quick Links

Basic Rules | Introductory videos | Create a character

[karmic pendant]

i don't think rings of chaos exist in dnd anyway

[stoic obsidian]

Read the books, for your character would have to work within the mechanics of dnd

[magic grotto]

idk

[past canopy]

im pretty sure hes just making up stuff lol

[magic grotto]

yeah

[past canopy]

he said in the new comers chat hes never played

[magic grotto]

amma take a elmental monk

[knotty basin]

Chromatic orb could be pretty easily reflavored to be ring-themed

[past canopy]

pretty sure we both just spawned in here lol

[stoic obsidian]

That why I say read the books

[magic grotto]

a monk witb a chromatic orb

[karmic pendant]

i don't think monks get that

[magic grotto]

i dont wanna :[

[past canopy]

so unserious

[magic grotto]

read the boks

idk what this game is

[stoic obsidian]

…… you’re trolling aren’t you

[karmic pendant]

you can find out by reading the rules

[magic grotto]

no

[knotty basin]

You’d be surprised

[magic grotto]

listen i nedd hhelp

idk how to play]

[past canopy]

there's literally like a billion youtube videos on it , i don't think a single person here is gonna write an entire book on how to play for you in a comment lol its more elaborate than that which is why theres actual published books on the game already

[magic grotto]

okay

[idle oar]

#learn-to-play and check the free basic rules: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/br-2024

Ask specific questions as you run into them in #dnd-newcomers

[past canopy]

but yeah like i was saying anyone have any relative dnd servers that have gen vcs akin to this one ? or do most other servers just have vs reserved for game play ...

[idle oar]

The first 2 chapters of the basic rules cover the core game mechanics and rhythm of play and how to create a character step by step.

[idle oar]

You can check #looking-for-community for D&D community servers that may have voice chat.

[cinder timber]

are we allowed to post links to yt?

[magic grotto]

is a monk able to use a spell

or nah

[hidden spindle]

If they have Spells, yeah

[idle oar]

As long as it complies with server rule and you explain what the link is, you can post links

[knotty basin]

If you have the magic initiate feat, yes

[past canopy]

ok thanks

[magic grotto]

monk with that feat

with spell of fire ball

[karmic pendant]

magic initiate is only 1st level spells

[magic grotto]

is fire ball a lvl 1 spell

[cinder timber]

this is a playlist for how to play dnd which i found helpful

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJmFJXf3BXjwXkNFo_-iwtHb24AuJcXqx&si=ukqhhQS0Bt0xsIPj

[idle oar]

No

[karmic pendant]

also i will add magic initiate spells that aren't cantrips are 1 use per long rest

[hot marlin]

3rd level spell. You only get it at level 5

Which you will reach by going down a few levels of the dungeon

Rich Burlew was right. Someone at TSR should have opened a thesaurus

[magic grotto]

i got

A

barb...

[knotty basin]

The silvery kind or the angry kind?

[magic grotto]

whats diffrence

amma play from my personality

[karmic pendant]

one is a spell the other is a class

[hot marlin]

Silvery barbs is a spell. Known for arguably being unbalanced and poorly made.

[magic grotto]

i got one to inspire and defilbarate the opp

[cinder timber]

Defibrillate the opps?

[magic grotto]

opponents

[cinder timber]

Ur fixing their heart rhythm?

[magic grotto]

what

the class one

[hot marlin]

That is a definition of "defibrillate".

[magic grotto]

what

[cinder timber]

The class one? I dont know then

[magic grotto]

i mean like make them sad and not wanting to fight

[stoic obsidian]

I think they meant debilitate

[hot marlin]

A defibrillator is a machine that sends an electric shock. It's used for heart attacks. That's a joke

[knotty basin]

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[magic grotto]

YES

[karmic pendant]

also if inspiring people is what you want to do i'd recommend bard

[magic grotto]

. THATS WHAT I MEAN

[cinder timber]

Thank you for clarifying

[cinder timber]

Maybe he giving Healthcare 🤔

[magic grotto]

OHHHH

[stoic obsidian]

Or get inspiring leader

[magic grotto]

Ii didnt know that frfr

[hot marlin]

Debilitate and defibrillate are indeed different things. Please do not cast Hex on someone suffering a heart attack

That's a sure way to lose your medical license

[magic grotto]

im sorry

[stoic obsidian]

Unless the punch get their heart pumping

[magic grotto]

so sorry

i didnt know that

[knotty basin]

Why are you punching people to cast hex???

[cinder timber]

Yeah, I don't think it would be a good look to hex someone suffering a heart attack

[knotty basin]

Is your fist an arcane focus?

[magic grotto]

stop

[balmy peak]

hiii

[iron sedge]

don't stop

[stoic obsidian]

It a medical glove

[magic grotto]

bruv

[cinder timber]

It's an ekg that shows the results on the monk's forearm

[stoic obsidian]

I sneak you into a healthy life

Psychologically

Okay, we are cooking up a character concept now

[stoic obsidian]

Tattoo monk

That sound like a tattoo monk

[magic grotto]

i got a idea a barb that is mad

a bardbarian

[karmic pendant]

that can actually be done

[knotty basin]

I mean, that’s a terrible multiclass, but sure

[magic grotto]

LOL

I SAID THAT AS A JOKE

[karmic pendant]

i read it as just barbarian honestly

[hollow stone]

actually that'd be pretty baller, some caster who's Arcane Focus is their prosthetic hand

[cinder timber]

oh that would be quite heat. would be interesting to see the chaos if the prosthetic is knocked off

[stoic obsidian]

Sound like a fun battlesmith idea

[karmic pendant]

maybe reflavor an armorer artificer to have the weapon be the prosthetic hand

[knotty basin]

Speaking of which, one of our players got a curse that made their head detachable. Now whenever they fall prone or whatever, they have to do a con save or drop their head

[karmic pendant]

battlesmith could work better

[stoic obsidian]

The simple way to do it

[hidden spindle]

That's not a curse but a Blessing!

Dulahan's curse~

[stoic obsidian]

Gauntlets

[cinder timber]

that's quite hilarious, icl.

[hollow stone]

"can i have that back please? 🥺"
"you used that to summon a ball of fire that chases me, absolutely not."
"but my hamd :("

[cinder timber]

:( the poor caster

[stoic obsidian]

Okay, set to self destruct

[karmic pendant]

also if you're new to dnd the last thing you should be messing with is homebrew classes

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah

Keep to official content and what your dm allows

[hollow stone]

i fear the man who spends every night of their adventure enscribing every articulated part of their prosthetic hand with a Fireball spell

[turbid vessel]

@magic grotto in the best of faith, I highly recommend checking out the #learn-to-play channel in this discord and giving everything in there a good read. It'll give you a good platform in learning to play DnD

[hidden spindle]

I make sure I'm SRD 5.2.1-approved

[stoic obsidian]

Also, I have a back up prosthetic

And a wand

You thought I wouldn’t be prepared for that?

Oh wow, I feel like Batman now

[karmic pendant]

i mean batman is a rich depressed guy

[marble lion]

Anti-Aboleth spray. Never forget it

[hollow stone]

i mean you could also reflavor a Shortsword or a Dagger as a Katar-gauntlet weapon and have the character be a Pact Of The Blade warlock so you can just instantly summon a new one

[stoic obsidian]

That also makes sense

Why not a great club at that point

[hollow stone]

i don't know exactly how a patron defines a weapon but i know anything with a sufficiently large spike or ability to throw things/be thrown can be considered a weapon

[stoic obsidian]

So a plunger would count

[hollow stone]

i mean yea, but under a different category of being a stick

[stoic obsidian]

Hair Brush too, can hurt too

[hollow stone]

sticks are weapons, sticks are the weapon

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah, because quarterstaff exist

Now I want to play Quarterstaff bladesinger

[hollow stone]

throughout all of humanity, even before, our evolutionary ancestors were hitting things with sticks

[stoic obsidian]

And poking

Probably scratching their backs with it too

Actually caveman dnd be fun to play

[hollow stone]

yea, i've never needed a stick to do that tho

i can reach any spot on my back with my hands

[turbid vessel]

Oongar was a hunter with a huge back, he needed a stick

[stoic obsidian]

Yup

And Blogi need a stick to scratch his trex back

[turbid vessel]

Could probably play tennis on the width of his scapula

[stoic obsidian]

You mean rock bash

[turbid vessel]

Nah, alternative history factoid; cavemen invented pickleball

[stoic obsidian]

Alternative history factoid:They play the first ttrpg called Rex’s and Caves

Oh wait Caves and Rex’s

Wait I think I got a strange idea for a dnd campaign

[turbid vessel]

Do it like grogs one-shot from critical role lol

[knotty basin]

Prehistoric dnd would be fire

I mean, there’s already dinosaur statblocks

[stoic obsidian]

How about a campaign were magic becomes dormant mysterously for thousands of years, and the god of dnd as well with monsters and then suddenly in modern day everyone started to be able to cast magic, other feel stronger, quicker, and sharper with the gods awakening from their slumber, but so does the forgotten terrors. Now you and your team must refind old text to combat this new reality and even find out what happened in the past

[sleek cloud]

That’d be a hard no from me

[hidden spindle]

"The Dream of the Blue Veil Adventures in another world..."

Acolyte (Magic Initiate: Cleric): Ceremony anybody?

[cinder timber]

what? I'm surprised to hear the things players come up with

[eager marsh]

There's a really strong disconnect with players that treat D&D like skyrim/a video game rather than a real world characters actively exist in so you end up with some oddball choices sometimes

[full garden]

so 27 point buy can be out performed 63% of the time by just rolling, has no one questioned how low that number is?

[eager marsh]

'outperformed' is an awefully vague statement. Furthermore 27 point buy is in fact the gold standard. rolling stats heavily risks really low stats as well numerically

[shy stirrup]

But it can also produce higher stats, so the quesiton the player should ask is:
Am I feeling lucky?

[eager marsh]

rolling stats also results in explicitly uneven or unfair spreads between players

[shy stirrup]

And if not, standard array or point buy are over there -->

[knotty basin]

It can also give you a 3 in strength as a fighter

[hidden spindle]

I think the main issue with rolling is the disparity between players

[full garden]

well i am a 1st ed player just walking into this and as far as i can tell 33 would be the right number giving 50% chance of being out performed by rolling. Seems arbitrary and put in place by singleclassites.

[hidden spindle]

And often times, rolling gets modified to become more "even"

[eager marsh]

The players being given strictly uneven methods for base character creation is very much not something I'm a fan of

[sleek coyote]

If my attack turn is taking to long cos sometimes it can be confusing to understand the spell list and wat they do, is it ok for me to ask skip my turn?

[knotty pasture]

Yeah although its 63%, that's still only 63%

[knotty basin]

1. You should of knew how to play your character before the game started

[eager marsh]

No. Read teh spells you selected/prepared before the session

[shy stirrup]

You can be a fan of party stat balance, sure
You can also deem it not a big deal and allow the dice to tell their story

[knotty basin]

2. Just use the dodge action

[hidden spindle]

Probably best to know your spells ahead of time and use the Dodge Action

[shy stirrup]

And otherwise leave stats up to the players, how they want to handle it

[sleek coyote]

I just got the spell

[knotty pasture]

What spell is it

[knotty basin]

Then pick a different spell

[knotty pasture]

Alternatively just move like 10 cm and end your turn

[eager marsh]

Unless you leveled up mid session you shouldnt be without the time to read a spell before the next combat

[knotty pasture]

There's always something to do on your turn no matter the class, even if its shooting an arrow or throwing a cantrip

[sleek coyote]

Summon celestial

[knotty pasture]

Its not really that hard to understand, you summon a pet that fights along with you

Avenger specializes in ranged combat and defender specializes in melee combat

[hidden spindle]

I wonder if they have the material for it too

[eager marsh]

dont have to worry about the spell if they dont have it then

hot take: none of the summon spells are even that good to even warrant the costly component

[hidden spindle]

I like the Material Components just so characters have to spend the time & money to get it than willy-nilly cast Pet

[full garden]

Anyway i wonder what the origin is for some of these decisions. i think there is decisions that are for the corporate controlled league and others are to try and keep D&D flavor, stray too far and your in 4th edition territory. Point buy 27 seems like a league decision.

[eager marsh]

point buy has nothing to do with 'league' at all. that rule predates organized D&D entirely. it was made as a methodology to allow a fair character creation across teh board.

[full garden]

well its not in 1st ed from what i remember

[eager marsh]

frist didnt have organized D&D anyways.

[knotty pasture]

Worst comes to worst you can homebrew it ig, what's the median stat number on randomized rolls?

[eager marsh]

Not to the capacity of Adventures League or that 3.5 equivalent

pretty sure its like 12-14 but thats without me checking probability

checked because i'm like that. The mathematically average result of 4d6 drop lowest is a score of 11.5

[shy stirrup]

Ah, a returning 1e player, welcome 🙂
You will find some things have changed
And some things have not

[knotty pasture]

That's not too bad

I wouldn't be opposed to a buffed version of the standard array in order to match the average from randomized rolls ig

[eager marsh]

the average would round up to 12 in all stats. which you can already do on point buy

[hidden spindle]

Average of random rolls is 72. (Rounded up to 12)

Standard Array is 72

[knotty pasture]

I must be reading too much reddit with how people are talking about randomized giving them 80+ points

[eager marsh]

thats called them having good luck

Not them discussing the realistic average results of randomized

[hidden spindle]

I think Point Buy is 75 if none are higher than 13. This is before bonuses

[knotty basin]

Yesterday someone was talking about how they rolled a 3 in intelligence, even after the DM let them reroll

[full garden]

excuse me, 1st ed was awsome, had over 100 active players in my town in the 80's organized many events, You modern players have no idea.

[eager marsh]

considering how D&Dwas regarded at large by people in the 80s your town was definirely the minority. glad it worked for you

[full garden]

Were you even alive then?

[eager marsh]

irrelevant

[shy stirrup]

I was there, Gandalf...

[eager marsh]

obviously its a no or I wouldnt have answered that way. doesnt change how knowing how something was regarded in the past works

[knotty pasture]

At that point I would have resigned into playing a martial class lol

[hidden spindle]

I believe the correct way is to select class first, then assign ability scores

[knotty pasture]

Imagine picking a Wizard and getting those scores though

[hidden spindle]

I'll be casting Hands

[old sluice]

What? Who does that? Why?

[old sluice]

... Are you familiar with Shadowrun?

[eager marsh]

Also picking class before stats rolled feels wrong narratively. How do you get forced into a 3 intelligence and somehow believably become even a first lv wizard

[hidden spindle]

I don't make the rules

[knotty pasture]

Just leave the table on the spot if you get a 3 in con

[shy stirrup]

Once upon a time, you rolled stats first
Then chose your class based on what you rolled

with 3 INT, you ain't being no wizard that's for sure

[void cedar]

I love just reading the discussions here and understanding none of it 💀

[knotty pasture]

3 int would make for a good Barbarian

[hidden spindle]

With 3 INT Wizard, you're locked in the whole way

[old sluice]

With 3 int, I'd say you died in childhood from eating something you shouldn't have eaten

[shy stirrup]

So you'd look at your 3 INT and your 16 STR and choose accordingly

[knotty pasture]

Nah that just sounds like having physical trauma from a mind flayer but miraculously surviving

Bet the brain was tasty

[hidden spindle]

You'd know no better

[old rose]

A 3 INT makes you think you're a wizard

[stable solar]

Lmao

[shy stirrup]

1e's minimum INT to play a Magic User (Wizard) was 9, most everything else had minimum stat requirements

[knotty pasture]

I should look into making Minsc from Baldur's Gate into a Wizard (he has 8 int 12 wis) without changing his stats

[stable solar]

I believe you cant even speak properly at that low int

[knotty pasture]

Just because of how this convo turned out

[knotty basin]

Wait don’t go there

[stable solar]

How would you cast verbal spells

[eager marsh]

3 intelligence is the minimum for sentience and verbal spells dont even require real worlds

[knotty basin]

You can just scream or say nonsense to cast verbal spells

They don’t actually require any specific phrase

[old rose]

Barb: I cast punch

[old sluice]

Sapience. Sentience is just the ability to perceive your environment. Everything with eyes is sentient, and a lot of things without eyes

[knotty pasture]

Something something wis and cha classes gotta cast their spells too without needing int

[stable solar]

Speaking of low stats, my wizard currently has 4 wisdom , I dont really know how to rp that

[shy stirrup]

Foolishness, rash decisions, lack of common sense

[knotty pasture]

Book smart but has no social experience

Bonus points if he has the noble background, make him the emperor from the emperor's new clothes

[stable solar]

Theyre a scribe actually

[shy stirrup]

Make them very unwordly

all their life, shut up in some tower scribbling scrolls

and now...

[fiery nimbus]

you yell random nonsense and when the vibes are right it does some magical stuff

[stable solar]

This might be a little grim, but they actually write down the names of people they are planning to kill lol

[knotty pasture]

Death Note moment

[stable solar]

Ya know what i might just lean into that

[old sluice]

If you're planning on killing people you may as well have an organised list

[shy stirrup]

Your DM will find a way to get this list in the hands of your targets
Just sayin

[hidden spindle]

The easiest for low Wisdom is lack of experience; a greenhorn. Otherwise there's a d4 table for it: Rash, Distracted, Oblivious, Naive

[knotty pasture]

Btw speaking of killing people, is it better to start with the preassigned gear from your class or should you just ask for a dozen gold pieces and buy your own gear

[stable solar]

Depends if you start at level 1 vs a higher level

[knotty pasture]

Level 1, so I think the options are the gear mentioned in PHB or 25 gp(?)

[stable solar]

Also it sorta depends on your class, paladin usually should just take the gear cause its expensive

[fiery nimbus]

Reminds me of one of the minor characters from the witcher
a scribe who meet a girl he wanted to be with, so he escaped from his master and joined infantry

Think 2 books later you do actually read the moment when he gets his hand amputated

[crimson gulch]

Starting gold or starting equipment kits both work fine

[sullen juniper]

I know this is an odd question but is there any non monk class that has good unarmed stuff? Want to do the classic risen in the streets boxer type for an ork

[knotty basin]

Nope

[shy stirrup]

Context dependent, but to me low WIS says unworldliness, ie lack of experience of the world

[sullen juniper]

Or subclass of course

[knotty pasture]

Not particularly but you could try Spores Druid?

[atomic kayak]

Not particularly, but i dont see why monk couldn't work for that

[fiery nimbus]

New Paladin can smite with unarmed attacks and Fighter has unarmed fighting style

[knotty basin]

But you can flavor a monk however you like

[crimson gulch]

Not really, there is an unarmed fighting style and a few feats but monks are the masters of unarmed combat

[hidden spindle]

Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, with the Unarmed Fighting Style

[knotty pasture]

But a quarterstaff with Shillilegh hits way harder even then

[sullen juniper]

I see, thank you

[old sluice]

Go with class equipment, save yourself needless trouble. You'll have ditched all of it before level 4

[fiery nimbus]

Still monk will work fine, nowhere in the class description does it say you can't be a street fighter

HADOKEN to your hearts contend

[knotty basin]

Magic iniate would be good for that

[sullen juniper]

I do get that but I was thinking more of a brutal but obviously not nimble fighter, see irl boxers or vi from arcane

[hidden spindle]

You mean "Shoryuken!"

[knotty basin]

Hadoken is something else

[old sluice]

For that, a fighter will get you that flavour more easily than a monk

[knotty basin]

Monks don’t have to be nimble

[sleek cloud]

Funnily enough, the valdas spire of secrets book on dnd beyond has a subclass for monks called warrior of the street, which basically has the features you’d expect, hadoukens, shoryukens, even guard breaks

There’s still focus point costs of course

[sullen juniper]

Well I know is just u and want the feel I'm using someone who learn to fight by being beaten up and beating In taverns and shady corners of a city

[knotty basin]

So… why not use a monk?

[sleek cloud]

Barbarian coded

[hidden spindle]

Barbarian do make good Unarmed Strikes too. Especially with Tavern Brawler for a little boost from 1 to d4

[sullen juniper]

Principles

Also barbarian sounds good

[inner silo]

Is there a fun fire and ice themed magic item for a sorcerer that's level 4/5?

[knotty basin]

For a level 0.8 sorcerer? I’m not so sure

[hidden spindle]

Maybe not together... but Boots of Winterlands with Continual Flames cast on each Boot.

[inner silo]

I meant 4 or 5

[inner silo]

I see, thanks

[coarse ravine]

I'dk about fun. But the rare items dragon touched focus gives ya adv on initiative and Another d6 towards fire or ice spells

[inner silo]

Ooo, thanks!

[hidden spindle]

Well... it's their in-game money.

Should probably be mentioned at Session 0 or just over the table conversation

Yeah. Definitely needs to be talked about then

[hidden spindle]

Oh that's cool. Where's that one from?

[marble lion]

Its usually jokes

I dont mind some jokes about it but if anyone commits the joke to canon by actually trying to get those npcs, i shut it down and might kick them if i dont like their reaction

Just not compatible

But i think its alright to want that

Just doesnt fit my game

The point is the disapproval of hareming npcs

[proven nova]

I find polyamory does kind of detract from more deep relationships.

[marble lion]

Not the point

[woven flint]

Hello, friends!

[full garden]

What was interesting about 1st edition is a combat round was a full minute, it was assumed there was movement and parrying, and all the stuff 5e shows, the roles and hp were just ways to resolve the combat and each roll to hit was the eventual opertunity that opens up after a minute of combat. So you didn't need actions, bonus actions and reactions.

[proven nova]

I am confused. Is polyamory not the practice of being in a relationship with more than one person at once?

[marble lion]

I dont really see how it responds to my response

[proven nova]

About harems being disruptive???

[full garden]

1st ed combat allowed players and DM's the creative freedom to discribe how the combat unfolded without rules constraining what happened

[marble lion]

I pointed out that theyre just joking, most of the time, and while i dont want it in my game, am fine with it

[proven nova]

Ah. I misunderstood.

[marble lion]

Its disruptive because its comedy

[hidden spindle]

How other's play at the table is in the DM's court. And any time a behavior is disruptive or not approved of, it should be promptly discussed about it.

[marble lion]

If they actually mean it seriously im not comfortable for other reasons

[fossil hollow]

I live

[proven nova]

Fair point.

[hidden spindle]

I'm glad

[marble lion]

A fantasy world is the place i absolutely would allow polyamory though

[proven nova]

Lovely liver

[marble lion]

Just not buying harem npcs

[fossil hollow]

W-what about my liver??

[proven nova]

[proven nova]

I was saying that it was lovely you were alive lol

[fossil hollow]

B-but my liver...

[marble lion]

Ill fry it right. Dont let the other hacks burn and ruin it

[hidden spindle]

Hot take: I find it uncomfortable the ways folks describe creatures they kill.

I just say its a fantasy and move on.

-# Also why I use Melee Attacks whenever possible

[full garden]

I really don't see how 5e refines the rules or improves on them over 1st ed, its just different rules. So people should play what feels right, theater of mind was not really a thing back then because that is what 1st ed was, it was just D&D.

[proven nova]

Did you know that a shrimp fried this rice?

[marble lion]

Definitely not compatible

[fossil hollow]

I-I should start drinking then. Maybe my liver wont be too yummy and not worth cooking

[proven nova]

Damn, you really comitted to the bit LMAO

[hidden spindle]

Its something that makes me uncomfortable, the same as when you see a player with their NPC's harem makes you uncomfortable

[marble lion]

You said that

[full garden]

I have been doing a deep dive into 2024 5ed and I am impressed that there is very little that's missing this time around, 1st ed themes seem to mesh better in 2024. So someone went back and said, what 1st ed stuff was cool, lets bring them forward.

[bronze wave]

Your just fermenting it. It’ll taste better

[shy stirrup]

1e, B/X, BECMI, all influenced the development of 5e (as well as 3e, 4 not so much)

[fossil hollow]

not if i destroy it.

[full garden]

but if they wanted to be first ed friendly they could publish an actionless combat alternative. Just roll oppertunity hits based on the number of attacks and best imagination wins.

[fossil hollow]

what

[fickle heart]

I would expand this to say that systems had/have different goals, so what system people find most appealing generally aligns with their goals and doesn't mean one system is inherently the best.

[shy stirrup]

Yes, well, what we have is what we have with 5e, which ofc your welcome to tinker with
But there are what's called OSR games, that adhere closer to the OD&D/1e vibe

[fickle heart]

It's entirely possible that 6e eventually comes out and discussion becomes "5e was so bad at X/Y/Z."

[full garden]

I could easily do all the combat for 5e as 1st ed, in my head (we did that back then) players wouldn't even notice. No bonuses to calculate really. THACO was nice and simple.

[shy stirrup]

Incidentally there is a #dnd-elder-editions channel - which makes it sound like a retirement home, but anyway. The convo is mostly about 3e however

As for THAC0, well

[full garden]

it was good, very easy to understand.

[bronze wave]

If the convo is about 3e it prob is a retirement home

[shy stirrup]

And one day, when we're at 10th Edition, you too will be in that retirement home

Maybe 🙂

[bronze wave]

I can’t wait until we have an atheist class. I’ll be there

[full garden]

as a 1st ed player, i go to rules when the discussion seems general and then i get sent to dnd discussions, and then if i talk too much about my 1st ed experiences i get sent to elder editions where all discussion goes to die.

[bronze wave]

Immune to radiant dmg

[full garden]

i think hasbro is trying to sell nostalgia, but it seems when you talk it, you get punted out of the way, not very friendly really.

[loud tendon]

Most of the channels we have are geared towards 5th edition because it is the current edition and what a lot of people are playing.
#dnd-elder-editions is the space for discussing things that existed in previous editions but are no longer present in 5th edition.

Also, any concerns about the discord can go to #server-feedback and any concerns about moderation you can ask to speak with a moderator in #moderator-support

[marble lion]

Yo

[lean wigeon]

we would reach heat death before we get a 6e

[valid geyser]

One random “nostalgia” thing I hope we get to see are the second or third edition iconics. Especially the 2e fighter artists loved to draw in danger/dying because TSR forced them to have a Caucasian male human fighter iconic

[rough basalt]

Nah 6e will happen eventually

Probably in the 2030s

[pseudo hinge]

If the world is even around in the 2030s

[marble lion]

It will be

[pseudo hinge]

I mean have you seen the state of the world?

[rough basalt]

That's not for here.

[loud tendon]

Let's keep it to d&d, folks and not doom spiral

[rough basalt]

But humanity is annoyingly resilient and adaptive, it's something I feel fantasy sometimes downplays

[cinder timber]

Like roaches 😂

[rough basalt]

Like we just have the ability to adapt to drastic weather changes

After 3 days in cold, 50 degrees feels like 90

[shy stirrup]

Anyway, what is fair game across editions is philosophies of play, of style, like say a convo about the superhero style of 4e, or the gritty style of 1e, and which you might prefer to inform your 5e game

[rough basalt]

Therefore I stand that humans in dnd should get cold or fire resistance depending on the climate they're in /j

Actually cold resistance wouldn't be that unbelievable.

People live in areas where a wind gust is basically the Frosty Fingers spell

And they just tank it

[sleek cloud]

Nordmaxxing

[rough basalt]

You could tell me all Icewind Dale inhabitants have cold resistance and I wouldn't argue you tbh

[valid geyser]

Give humans an extra hit dice. Make them the guys well known for having excellent stamina

[sleek cloud]

I’d buy it

[rough basalt]

It'd make sense why Auril hates them so much too

How dare they adapt to her cold

idk the story of icewind dale

Didn't get that far into the module

[proven nova]

Oh shit, fellow mighty nein enjoyer.

[marble lion]

Currently listening to it

[rough basalt]

The human changes in '24 honestly make the most sense

The daily inspiration is the indomitable human will

The extra skill cause most people have some random skill they're insanely good

[marble lion]

Daily inspiration? I dont like that

[rough basalt]

And feat for human individuality

[proven nova]

Baaaaaaad idea, daily inspiration is.

[marble lion]

1 i feel like most sentient creatures would end up lile that
2 it ruins the whole point of giving inspiration being special imo

[rough basalt]

Some humans are built with tougher parts (tough) some are talented (skilled)

[rough basalt]

'24 has various ways for players to generate inspiration

[marble lion]

Everything youre saying is true for any sentient species

[rough basalt]

Like Musician Feat and Purple Dragon Rook inspiration

[valid geyser]

Yeah I enjoy 24 human. Free inspiration and lucky feat has saved my life a bunch of times

[rough basalt]

They added ways for players to generate inspiration cause it kinda just makes sense

[marble lion]

Players already generated inspiration

[rough basalt]

Your comrade in battle plays a battle song about how you'll win wouldn't inspire you?

[marble lion]

It was just up to the dm to gage it

[rough basalt]

They only generated inspiration if the DM allowed it

[valid geyser]

I do just kinda wish they just encouraged the DM to give inspiration a lot more but true enough
It does feel less like a meta currency now

[marble lion]

I liked it for that exact reason

[valid geyser]

But even then it’s mostly contained in niche feats

[rough basalt]

Now it's more of an inworld thing as well

[proven nova]

I was contemplating possibly getting the inspiring leader feat for this exact reason.

[shy stirrup]

Inspiration is a kind of currency, and so just like any other - gold - as the DM you gotta decide how much you wanna give out

[marble lion]

Yeah im not warming up to 24 still. I thought id come around after a few months

[rough basalt]

I can never go back to '14

[marble lion]

But this i really do not like

[rough basalt]

'14 was a good stepping stone, being generous

[valid geyser]

I think out of other RPGs I’ve played with similar meta currencies. 2014 5e handled it pretty bad. Getting only one inspiration encouraged hoarding, and made a downward spiral of not using it so DMs didn’t give it out

[shy stirrup]

For me, I see some things I like in 2024
And some things I don't
Same with 2014 🤷‍♂️

[valid geyser]

Also it was kinda confusing when bardic existed

[rough basalt]

Yeah I don't have anything I dislike too much

2014 I'd say is about 70% dislike

[valid geyser]

Most of my cons for 2024 are more on the nitpick or minor dislike things that don’t super hamper the experience in any way

[rough basalt]

Yeah, same.

[valid geyser]

Like common being a magic multiverse language from sigil. I find that lore bit dumb but it doesn’t impact my game

[proven nova]

I usually play as a Paladin. Hence why I didn’t like 24 as much.

[rough basalt]

'14s issues are the type that made me wanna play pathfinder

[proven nova]

They utterly obliterated smite.

[rough basalt]

I find '24 paladin a lot better personally

[proven nova]

Why?

[rough basalt]

The spell smites are good for one

In 2014 there's a few good ones but most are crap

[proven nova]

Okay, true. At the same time, why even bother getting divine smite then? Why not them let you choose from a smite option?

[sleek cloud]

Divine smite + that new Spellfire adept feat is pretty solid

[rough basalt]

Cause you get divine smite automatically

[hidden spindle]

Technically... the DM can give creatures Resistances (max 2).

[proven nova]

Also, generally a lot of the people I play with like the older system, so I play the older system.

[valid geyser]

I dislike divine smite as a spell tbh but it’s entirely aesthetic. I just felt it as a class feature made it feel more special but it’s not a deal breaker at all

[rough basalt]

Yeah I'd quit 5e before I played '14 paladin again personally

All the good changes far outweigh the divine smite nerf which was expected

[tame estuary]

Never thought of this

[hidden spindle]

Divine Smite being a Spell was no nerf but a Boon in disguise.

[tame estuary]

"It can now be counterspelled"

Unless you're running all martials, no

[rough basalt]

More CD charges, better spell smites, Subclass buffs, free find steed, BA lay on hands, unarmed smite, lay on hands buff, the net positive weapon masteries that most martials get.

[hidden spindle]

Now certain Giant Animals being Celestials instead of Beasts was a bad move

[tame estuary]

Find steed being a feature instead of a spell is pretty funny

[lean wigeon]

i was thinking of Fate'ing it
players get rewarded inspiration for playing into their flaws and complicating the situation or giving themselves disadvantage for the roll
inspiration can be spent as normal for advantage, but if their background, bonds, or ideals come into play and are relevant to the roll, they get an automatic success when using it

[rough basalt]

Most inspiration I see given out lately is just for above table shenanigans

[tame estuary]

When I get into the game, I just always expect everything, so if people mess around they're not really getting inspiration

[sleek cloud]

I’ve seen approximately one heroic inspiration given out in the 8 months we’ve been playing our current campaign

[rough basalt]

I forget about it

So players being able to generate it is helpful

[lavish flame]

I really like the Inspiration changes tbh, I literally never once got Inspiration in 2014 5e, being able to generate it is great

[rough basalt]

Also the feats that let you generate inspiration just make sense

[sleek cloud]

It’s not really gonna break a game to have it since it’s just 1 at a time anyways. Humans generating it, musician origin feat, even some subclasses like champion getting it in the upper levels every turn in combat is fine

[rough basalt]

Like what do a lot of people do when they need inspiration? Listen to music or look to other people's example. (Musician, Purple Dragon Knight feat)

[tame estuary]

I imagine inspiration as doing something else in the heat of the moment

So you roll twice

[rough basalt]

Similar systems in other games are just as weird sometimes too lol

Like Hero points

[proven nova]

Why?

[rough basalt]

You can put divine smite into items that use spells

And since said items don't use a spell slot they're not applicable to the one slot a turn rule

[tame estuary]

Ring of spell storing to get that divine and eldritch smite

[sleek cloud]

Divine and eldritch smites stack too

[proven nova]

I see.

[valid geyser]

I like pf2 hero points, at leas the way one of my GMs ran it. We got one every hour to a random player, also any roll under 10 became a 10 (later made official in starfinder 2e as heroic rerolls) so much fun

Pf1 hero points? Not so much. One per level is a tough sell

[rough basalt]

Hero points I just imagine a guy going
"I'm gonna Hero!" Then he heroes which gives him a roll thing

[proven nova]

Idk, tbh I still enjoy 5e better. Personal preference. I’m not very interested in having PF2 levels of gaming. All the information gets a bit confusing to handle for me.

[valid geyser]

As opposed to savage worlds. Who is Benny and why is he letting me reroll

[rough basalt]

Ring a ding

[valid geyser]

And then marvel multiverse has karma. Hero points would’ve been the sensical option then because only heroes can use it and villains can’t

[rough basalt]

And a lot of marvel "heroes" aren't actually heroes, but anti-heroes

Like sorry Frank, you can't carpet bomb prisons and get Hero points buddy

[tame estuary]

Oh I like thr idea of a heroic inspiration and also a villainous inspiration. It's way more powerful, you can turn any d20 anything around you makes to a disadvantage

[rough basalt]

Draw Steel has something like that

[valid geyser]

I remember re-perusing it again and punisher isn’t even in the game which I find strange. Like he’s mentioned but no stat block. I guess they didn’t want too many gun guys? But I don’t see why we have bullseye and crossbones but no punisher

[rough basalt]

Enemies can use Malice (enemy resource) to do special attacks and stuff called Villain actions

Draw Steels Hero points are pretty crazy too

[valid geyser]

I did this because some playtest came out and there is this incredibly strong statblock for house cats. Guess how many cats it takes to beat daredevil? Like 4, probably less I got really lucky on my pseudo playtest
But anyway d&d

[rough basalt]

You get them every session

[valid geyser]

Yeah I think meta currencies are good when you get a consistent flow. People spend them more if they know more are around the corner, and they won’t hoard them until it’s life or death

Like in my pf2 game with that one DM, I spent it on a random performance check because my barbarian was a theater kid and didn’t wanna go out on a whimper

[rough basalt]

And even then they don't use it on life and death cause they forgot they had it

[valid geyser]

Then there’s systems like dungeon crawl classics with their luck system idk if I like or not. Luck is just a stat you roll with 3d6 you can burn and thieves/halflings get to roll dice for each luck point. It’s good for the shorter game that DCC strives on but there’s no way in the books to regain them (suggests that the DM figures it out, the book is kinda flip floppy because it expects the DM to pick and choose what they like)

[lavish flame]

They are still beholden to casting time tho, and Bonus Actions are in rare supply

[valid geyser]

Like if I had to make a tier list of metacurrencies, 5e heroic inspiration is like a C- I think. Pf1 is like a C, dcc luck is D for a long game B for a short convention game, Bennie’s are S, base pf2 points are like a B+ and S with heroic rerolls

[lean wigeon]

fate and cortex prime have some of the best and most involved metacurrency systems i've seen in a ttrpg imo, but im not sure how much that counts because those two games live and die by their metacurrency systems

[shy stirrup]

The DM of the game I'm playing in is fairly liberal with Inspiration points, and so I spend them early and often

[rough basalt]

Sure but you also didn't spend a spell slot, so you still have slots for other things

[shy stirrup]

Rather than saving them for a day that never comes

[valid geyser]

Also I think heroic inspiration can suffer from resetting per session, and 5e is a game where a day can either be one fight or eight

[rough basalt]

Being able to smite freely resource wise and still keep slots for buffs and healing

Pretty good

[valid geyser]

Yeah I probably trust narrative games to have the best metacurrencies

You know I’ve kinda noticed mods being more lax about other game talk here. I think it’s def for the better, as it’s had a lot of good conversation here, and we haven’t been straying too far off the topic of d&d.

[shy stirrup]

Well, D&D touches upon a lot of things 🤷‍♂️

[valid geyser]

True, I just remember around a year two years ago redirects were way more common about this, but also people here have chilled out a lot more

[knotty basin]

It depends who’s online at the moment

[valid geyser]

And I feel I might be projecting because a couple years ago I was definitely part of the problem when I was super paizo zealous and just generally being kinda negative

For sure. Ogl stuff and all that.

[knotty basin]

I think they’re talking about covid

[fiery nimbus]

I mean, it didn't chill
just the hands on mods were... removed

[knotty basin]

The mods here are still pretty hands on

[fiery nimbus]

They don't talk so its not really noticable anymore

[eager marsh]

mods have also rotated since 1-2 years ago to some degree

[valid geyser]

Yeah I’ll probably say that I have a pretty biased viewpoint, but it’s good to hear others thoughts on it

I remember feeling this server was really unwelcoming when it was the dndbeyond server, but people also said the same thing about the now defunct d&d server

[eager marsh]

I'm not sure more...detailed opinions can be made without breaking rules so I'm just staying vague

[fiery nimbus]

now its no different than the old one tbh

[valid geyser]

All good. I feel this convo got really meta anyway
I just wanna say even if thanksgiving is late I’m thankful for all the really thoughtful conversations I’ve had here

[fiery nimbus]

So, how much HP does Genie Vessel has for the warlock Subclass?

[valid geyser]

Warlock level plus proficiency bonus

[atomic kayak]

Yea it its own special little item

[potent prawn]

Is paladin lvl7 to 15 good or do i ask my dm if i can convert some level to stats

[atomic kayak]

What?

[potent prawn]

I managed to do 7 levels, dont ask me how.

[blazing ravine]

i concur, what?

[atomic kayak]

I am really unsure of what you are asking

[potent prawn]

I dont even know

[fiery nimbus]

ok

good talk

[fiery nimbus]

am i blind, i can't find its stats in the feature description

[old berry]

"Bottled Respite. As an action, you can magically vanish and enter your vessel, which remains in the space you left. The interior of the vessel is an extradimensional space in the shape of a 20-foot-radius cylinder, 20 feet high, and resembles your vessel. The interior is appointed with cushions and low tables and is a comfortable temperature. While inside, you can hear the area around your vessel as if you were in its space. You can remain inside the vessel up to a number of hours equal to twice your proficiency bonus. You exit the vessel early if you use a bonus action to leave, if you die, or if the vessel is destroyed. When you exit the vessel, you appear in the unoccupied space closest to it. Any objects left in the vessel remain there until carried out, and if the vessel is destroyed, every object stored there harmlessly appears in the unoccupied spaces closest to the vessel’s former space. Once you enter the vessel, you can’t enter again until you finish a long rest.

Genie’s Wrath. Once during each of your turns when you hit with an attack roll, you can deal extra damage to the target equal to your proficiency bonus. The type of this damage is determined by your patron: bludgeoning (dao), thunder (djinni), fire (efreeti), or cold (marid).

The vessel’s AC equals your spell save DC. Its hit points equal your warlock level plus your proficiency bonus, and it is immune to poison and psychic damage.

If the vessel is destroyed or you lose it, you can perform a 1-hour ceremony to receive a replacement from your patron. This ceremony can be performed during a short or long rest, and the previous vessel is destroyed if it still exists. The vessel vanishes in a flare of elemental power when you die."

[fiery nimbus]

Alright i was blind, it simply doesn't appear in character sheet

[sleek cloud]

Are you asking if you should stay in paladin levels or switch to a different class?

[eager marsh]

Paladin was and is one of the strongest mono classes in the game

[sleek cloud]

There is no converting levels to stats

[eager marsh]

Your levels are stats

[sleek cloud]

Yeah

Better way to put it

[blazing ravine]

im getting my own place next week, what dnd themed decor should i get?

[fiery nimbus]

well technically levels are just levels, stats are improved every 4 of em

[eager marsh]

No those are ability scores

[fiery nimbus]

Dungeon Wall, Iron Bars, Iron Cuffs, Medival Torture Device

[sleek cloud]

Trashbags of holding

[eager marsh]

Illithids

[fiery nimbus]

How is my idea the most realistic

[eager marsh]

D&D? Realistic? Don’t be silly

[fiery nimbus]

fair enough

Anyway any idea how to improve my survivalism as a Warlock?
I tend to struggle with that somewhat

[sleek cloud]

Melee or ranged

[eager marsh]

Tomb of Levistus

[fiery nimbus]

Ranged Genie Warlock

[coarse ravine]

Can warlocks get blink?

[fiery nimbus]

if you want to get a better look the sheet is in #character-discussion

[fiery nimbus]

they do have eyelids as far as im aware so blinking is not out of the realm of possibility

[burnt valley]

What makes Out of the Abyss module difficult?

[coarse ravine]

The spell blink is fantastic for survivability

[fiery nimbus]

issue, its a spell and warlock casts 2 of them and needs to go take a nap

[eager marsh]

The risk of TPK up until level 5 or so is constant through the underdark and even the first encounter is potentially lethal

[sleek cloud]

2014 or 24

[burnt valley]

What level does it even end at?

[fiery nimbus]

Already have that one, its a great emergency button, but im looking for something not reserved for emergencies

[fiery nimbus]

2014

[sleek cloud]

Oof

I’ll answer in character discussion

[eager marsh]

I think it’s intended to end at level 13 or so my DM last run let us get as high as 15 before the end since there’s a lot of room to add stuff

[fiery nimbus]

I know right, hence my problem

I am going to use my genie vessel as a shield, thats for sure

• Summons to off-set some danger, but at the same time im aware the most effective strategy of shutting the summoner down is aiming for the caster not the summon

[burnt valley]

Ah alright, would you rank it higher than Tomb of Annihilation in terms of difficulty?

[gaunt roost]

I do love the new forge of the artificer items, but is it just me or is the helmet of awareness mildly too good? I mean its just an uncommon item for advantage on init. Which does not require attunement, so its "basically" free advantage on init, so it works with literally any character

[eager marsh]

Yes and no. Depends on the characters in Tomb and how smart/clever they are since there’s way less direct encountered in ToA

The deadly parts of ToA are also the later half which is the reverse of OotA

Not that the second half of Abyss isn’t hard it’s just that you’re at a more reasonable level to deal with it

[old sluice]

Not gonna lie I do not remember a lot of fire resistance in that module

[eager marsh]

Even if there’s a lot that wouldnt make it more difficult in general terms

Not unless you intentionally had a lot of fire centric builds but that would be more of a noticeable issue in DiA

[tame estuary]

Not me making a necrotic damage build in EoR

[eager marsh]

That’s on you

[hollow stone]

it's weird, it's actually really hard to make a build with only one damage type

[tame estuary]

It's actually pretty simple

[hollow stone]

unless it's a martial, then you can just select a few Rogue options

[eager marsh]

No most builds will somehow end up with secondary element access so you usually would struggle to truly hamstring yourself as a caster

[hollow stone]

i am playing a rogue who can only deal piercing aside from Unarmed Strike

[eager marsh]

That doesn’t matter the physical damage types always work

[past blaze]

The humble Sling:

[eager marsh]

They mechanically have to to avoid handicapping martials

[hollow stone]

i don't have one of those, i got a Dagger, a Dagger, a Shortbow, and a Rapier

[tame estuary]

I mean I can get spellfire thing from magic initiate, but it doesn't fit the vibe

[hollow stone]

oh yea isn't that why they removed Magical damage?

[eager marsh]

Yes. They wanted to balance things more without magic item reliance

[hollow stone]

bc on top of playing a martial already having less versatility than a caster, they also couldn't do a damn thing to like, half of the ordinary (vampires, werewolves, etc.) monsters, yea

[tame estuary]

I long for a day where the only thing everyone does in combat is grapple everyone

And then throw them off the cliff

[eager marsh]

The intent that the casters were expected to take and cast magic weapon was kinda cruel

[eager marsh]

My Dragonborn ascendant dragon monk says hello. Most fights not being outside is what limits my power

[lavish flame]

Rogue moment

[hollow stone]

pretty much yea lol

[old sluice]

Get a shortsword.

[hollow stone]

nah i asked for the rapier instead of the shortsword

[tame estuary]

It's like 10 gold

[old sluice]

Little tip for martial characters: Try to have a way to deal all three physical damage types. You never know when you need to slice through a spider's web

[lavish flame]

I had a Swashbuckler that dual wielded Rapiers. Eventually he got them both enchanted to be +2 weapons. We had a lot of money and downtime

[marble lion]

they took away magical vs mundane slashing damage etc?

[tame estuary]

Yep

[hollow stone]

we're in the Feywild and are being hidden from the Fey human traffickers, we're not going to a shop

[marble lion]

me no likey

[tame estuary]

It's an attempt to not rely on magic items to balance martials

[marble lion]

i get that

i just really cant stand that choice. man today 2024 rules are on a roll with me

i think thats the third thing i hear that i really do not want

[lavish flame]

got replaced with either more health or just "Bludgeoning, Percing, and Slashing" regardless of magic. Things like Incorporeal Undead and Swarms are still resistant to BPS, but like most Fiends just got more health

[marble lion]

i better just lie down again

[tame estuary]

I think of it as a good thing

[lavish flame]

yeah tbh It has had no real effect in my games

[tame estuary]

Now you can just bludgeon them with the boulder you have nearby

[lavish flame]

ppl usually got magic weapons/ammunition before they encountered a creature that resisted nonmagical BPS

there was maybe a level where it was likely you'd encounter something with nonmagical BPS resistance while not having a magic weapon or ammo

and even then... Alchemist's Fire and Holy Water my beloved

[hollow stone]

isn't it a little odd that all three of those damage types are rather often treated like one damage type?

[lavish flame]

If there was just "Physical" damage, almost nothing would change

[tame estuary]

I kinda like it tho

[old sluice]

It does depend on the DM's generosity with magic weapons.

[tame estuary]

Gives flavor

[lavish flame]

skeletons and webs and rakshasas would be slightly different, but really nothing would change in gameplay

[old sluice]

My group often finds a lot of magic items, but very few of those are weapons

[hollow stone]

i mean i would advocate for the summarizing of Piercing and Slashing into being one damage type

[tame estuary]

Like imagine a wind attack making you take slashing damage, just fills you with imagination

[halcyon dragon]

barbarian thought process
...

writes that down

[halcyon dragon]

ooo!

...well, if you could make wind that sharp

now water or earth, i can see doing smth like that

[lavish flame]

I've played enough Elden Ring to know that wind can be sharp. Those damn Banished Knights...

[halcyon dragon]

💀

[clear lark]

Resistance wasn't the issue, it was immunity to BPS damage, unless they were magical

[tame estuary]

I also like to do puzzle encounters sometimes. Like of they're fighting an octopus, using any kind of slashing damage on the arms will take out exactly 1/8th of max hp

[hollow stone]

yea but like, statistically, most of the sources that deal Piercing would also be Slashing and vice versa

[halcyon dragon]

slashing is just the most efficient way to hurt

[hollow stone]

exemplary, swords! swords are often used with slashing in mind because that covers the most area, but sometimes they piercing

[halcyon dragon]

unless they have armor, then blunt force is needed

[hollow stone]

spears can graze you, arrows can graze you, that's also slashing

[clear lark]

It's not really necessary. It's not just one melee soloing. It's four or more players that are involved.

[hollow stone]

or a really sharp and fast object

[halcyon dragon]

fr

[hollow stone]

there is like, kevlar, but they do not have kevlar in the big 1113 or whenever DND doesn't take place

[eager marsh]

Fearun happens simultaneously with present day earth

The year number FR means nothing in relation to our history

[lavish flame]

Well, sorta. The Spellplague sorta mucked up the relative timeline

among other things

[hollow stone]

that's actually why people stopped wearing armor, we invented a device that launches an object so fast it's basically sharp and would punch a hole straight through platemail and scalemail and chainmail and we just gave up on using that and decided to dress in clothes with bright colors until we realized if the colors aren't bright then we're better at hiding

[red steppe]

Blame Mystra

[eager marsh]

Always blame Mystra she deserves it

[red steppe]

She rips magic away from puppies then kicks them

[lavish flame]

so Mystra's to blame? I say we kill her!

[hollow stone]

idk enough FR lore but i think that's a bad idea

[lavish flame]

nah it happens like biweekly

[red steppe]

replace her with someone better

Like Mystryl

[raven kernel]

Got I pretty fleshed out banished Nobel drow divination wizard backstory with a mimic spell book, but I have one thing to add but don’t know precisely how.

This chaotic evil character will publicly behave but in secret worships vecna, the evil Demi-god of magic and secrets. How would worship of vecna actually work? Sacrificing my not used spell slots at the end of a day to him?

[frozen fable]

I just got the 2024 player’s handbook

Whoever did the art for this needs a raise

[sleek cloud]

Glamour bard art is top tier

[frozen fable]

I personally find the vibes of the 2014 version to be better on the dm guide, tho.

[sleek cloud]

Is this for a group you’re currently in

[raven kernel]

It’s for a Christmas 1 shot and everyone is already playing evil.

[sleek cloud]

Oooooh nice

[frozen fable]

It’s still good, no question, but I feel like the forms spread out through the 2024 dm guide ruins the magic a bit

[sleek cloud]

Use at least one of your portent to make your allies fail would be a pretty good vecna tribute

[frozen fable]

Like: I cat cut it out because there’s important stuff on the back of the page, and I only have 1 so I can’t exactly write on it

So it’s just… there. A form I have no use for

[raven kernel]

Omg that’s so evil, I would literally get screamed at on the table.

But I think I can do small misery and get away with it.

[stoic obsidian]

I am not familiar with it

[glass granite]

Hello not, I’m Nugget

[stoic obsidian]

Want me to cast true polymorph on your computer?

Anyway I check what shadowrun was and I get why you asked if I am familiar with it

[glass granite]

Ah, but that’s usually specifies you must be able to see my computer

[stoic obsidian]

Or I see it through my familiar eyes

[sleek cloud]

Nobody would ever know in character 😈

If everyone’s evil, what’s a little backstabbing between “friends”

After all you’d expect nothing less from them, you’re just beating them to the punch is all

[hushed mist]

Bro all the art in the new books has been absolutely stellar

[sinful osprey]

Hey

If anyone like anime and wanna dnd just dm me

[fossil hollow]

#find-a-game

[stoic obsidian]

Why Do people not read the rules

[reef tundra]

Many newcomers end up in all sorts of places

[glass granite]

Specifically, they don’t look at #channel-guide

[reef tundra]

Like one arrived in homebrew somehow and asked to find a game here

[glass granite]

A third of the questions I see in #dnd-newcomers that I answer can be answered with #channel-guide

Maybe more

[reef tundra]

Absolutely

[stoic obsidian]

Guess people just don’t wanna read

Or at least that what it seems to me

But that probably because of yesterday

Or was it Friday

[glass granite]

Hm?

[stoic obsidian]

Some new person got in here and started asking how to build a character, and when people told them to read the books on how to play dnd and build a character and they don’t wanna read (not exact wording)

[glass granite]

Ah, reminds me of Echo (another person who was like that)

[stoic obsidian]

They go by Pico

[glass granite]

But tbf, some people learn better from having someone guide them through steps or through listening than by reading a wall of words

Or through practical application

[stoic obsidian]

Anyway, I wonder if I should retry bard and sorcerer since I haven’t gotten a chance to play them long

[glass granite]

I like bard

[stoic obsidian]

Me 2

[glass granite]

They’re my fav caster

[glass granite]

Hi 2, me Nugget

[stoic obsidian]

Hi Me Nugget

[glass granite]

Merciful End Nugget, at your service (Hades 1 reference, but that’s off topic)

[stoic obsidian]

But yeah I gonna try to be a non melee caster this time

[glass granite]

Melee caster fun tho

[torpid ocean]

wait hold on you y'all know the lady of pain right

[stoic obsidian]

But you should try non melee caster

[stoic obsidian]

#dnd-lore

[torpid ocean]

ag

it's just general dnd discussion though

I was gonna ask how strong the lady of pain actually was cuz I'm pretty confused on her

[stoic obsidian]

Idk

[torpid ocean]

didn't vecna try and fail to kill her?

[stoic obsidian]

She the enabler of wish spells

[torpid ocean]

o h

[stoic obsidian]

Yeah

[rough basalt]

Very

[torpid ocean]

more powerful than most dieties?

[rough basalt]

All of them.

[torpid ocean]

o h.

[rough basalt]

Except the DM

[torpid ocean]

so how is the lady of pain that strong?

[fossil hollow]

nobody knows

[rough basalt]

Cause she is

[torpid ocean]

huh

[fossil hollow]

shes kept purposely a mystery. She has the same amount of narrative strength as the Dark Powers

[torpid ocean]

is it kinda like the dark powers where she's deliberately not elaborated on

[fossil hollow]

exactly

[uncut zenith]

The fact that she’s so strong that she can sort of keep the gods in check is one of the biggest mysteries in the D&D multiverse

[torpid ocean]

would you guys say she's second only to Ao maybe?

[rough basalt]

Ao is weaker

[uncut zenith]

It’s left open ended so the DM can decide to explain it at their own tables if they choose to do so

[torpid ocean]

wait how

[rough basalt]

He's only the Supreme God of one world

[stoic obsidian]

How many mysteries are their?

[torpid ocean]

oh yeah he's only overgod of the forgotten realms

[uncut zenith]

Tons, especially depending on the setting you’re playing in

[torpid ocean]

honestly when I DM ravenloft I'd make the dark powers at least comparable to the lady of pain

[uncut zenith]

The Lady of Pain, the Dark Powers of Ravenloft, and the Raven Queen are intentionally designed to be inexplicably powerful beings that even the gods typically try not to mess with

[proper forum]

Hello lovely people of D&D. I want to make a super OP warlock build to impress my friends. Anyone know how or can help?

[stoic obsidian]

I would make a random pebble in a player shoe stronger than the lady of pain

[torpid ocean]

where's the raven queen from?

[fossil hollow]

The Dawn War iirc

[uncut zenith]

The Raven Queen, while considered a goddess in some settings, is a neutral being of death who spans the multiverse

[proper forum]

The Raven queen used to be a goddess of the Elven pantheon, now exiled on the shadow plane. She now commands the shadow plane. Her job is guarding the passage from life to death.

[torpid ocean]

another question about the lady of pain, is she known across the multiverse or do only people in sigil know about her

[stoic obsidian]

Until she meets another one and she be like this my job buddy

[torpid ocean]

isn't the shadow plane also where ravenloft is

[proper forum]

Fun fact my first ever character was a cleric of the Raven Queen, she was so edgy and cool I love her

[rough basalt]

Lady of Pain is probably known by multiversal scholars and travelers

[uncut zenith]

Like I said, in some settings/pantheons she’s worshipped as a goddess. In other settings, she’s considered a mysterious figure who presides over death and is an equal to the Lady of Pain.

[torpid ocean]

and I'd imagine they aren't very common to come across

[rough basalt]

Nope

[uncut zenith]

In fact, I think in older editions, there was in-world speculation that the Raven Queen and the Lady of Pain may be sisters

But I don’t think that theory has ever been confirmed

[proper forum]

She is also the creator of the shadow elves

[torpid ocean]

is the lady of pain said to be a goddess or is she just a bonkers powerful person

[torpid ocean]

isn't that lolth

[proper forum]

Guys... anyone want to help me with that?

[uncut zenith]

She didn’t create shadar-kai

[proper forum]

No lolth made the dark elves. Totally different species.

[rough basalt]

No those are dark elves

[torpid ocean]

huh

alright then

[rough basalt]

Shadow Elves are Shadar-Kai. Permanently depressed weirdos from the shadowfell /j

[uncut zenith]

Shadar-kai are elves who allied themselves with the Raven Queen and over time “evolved” to the environment they live in (the Shadowfell).

[torpid ocean]

also I asked this earlier [I think] but what plane is ravenloft in?

[uncut zenith]

Shadowfell

[fossil hollow]

Yeah, shadowfell

[torpid ocean]

right

[rough basalt]

The pocket dimensions that make up Ravenloft are basically in an extra dark corner of the shadowfell yeah

[proper forum]

The dark elves, or Drow, have gray skin and typically white hair and red or purple eyes. The shadow elves, or Shadar-Kai, have pale, but not completely white, skin and completely black eyes where the pupil takes up the entirety of their eye.

[uncut zenith]

The Domains of Dread are demiplanes that exist within the Shadowfell

[rough basalt]

If you're built different you can walk to and from domains

[uncut zenith]

I think of it less like a corner and more like they’re just scattered throughout the Shadowfell

[rough basalt]

Plausible

The Domains of Dread are pretty fun

[uncut zenith]

The best way I’ve been able to explain how I envision the Domains of Dread is a fruitcake. You’ve got an entire cake (the Shadowfell) with pieces of fruit (the Domains) in it, and a heck of a lot of cake (the Mists) between all of them.

[rough basalt]

That's a pretty good analogy

[torpid ocean]

yo I'm reading the lady of pain's wiki page on the vs. battle wiki

[rough basalt]

I think we need several more domains

[torpid ocean]

WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL DID THEY FEED HER BRO 😭

[rough basalt]

Throw the rest of Athas's Sorcerer-Kings in Ravenloft.
Save that poor planet

[uncut zenith]

In theory there are infinite domains of dread. The official ones are just some of them.

That’s why VRGTR had rules and guidance for creating original domains and dark lords

[vital tapir]

Considering how to reward my players next session for using their heads and being resourceful

[rough basalt]

Reminds me of someone getting mad at me over those rules cause the fact that Dark Lord's are irredeemable.

[proper forum]

Okay who is this lady of pain

[fossil hollow]

an enigmatic being who rules over Sigil

[rough basalt]

And is the one who says no to dumb wishes that affect the multiverse

[torpid ocean]

ruler of sigil, absolute schnook and somehow more powerful than any diety

as in: once killed a greater god with a single THOUGHT

like WHAT

[rough basalt]

My guess is she exists to keep the multiverse in check

So beings like Vecna don't get their way

[proper forum]

Is she the chief diety of D&D? The creator of everything abd all other gods, let's say?

[torpid ocean]

I like some lore I've thought of where the lady of pain is kind of a quarter of the being that made the multiverse

one other quarter being the dark powers and the other two [honestly I'm still working on it]

[uncut zenith]

No, she’s more like the gatekeeper of the multiverse who has a mysterious disdain for gods in general. She actually forbids people worshipping her as a goddess.

[rough basalt]

If you live in Sigil the only things you do concerning the Lady of Pain is not looking at her and staying out of her way

[torpid ocean]

which is double why I think her and the dark powers are somehow related considering the dark powers hate being worshipped too and have a disdain for gods

[proper forum]

What?? Dude what is her problem. Like is she fr.

[uncut zenith]

As fr as it gets

[rough basalt]

Like I said, if she didn't then the multiverse would've been destroyed

[torpid ocean]

are there any other dieties like the lady of pain besides the dark powers and the raven queen?

[rough basalt]

It's not just gods either

[proper forum]

So she got no paladins no clerics no nothing?

[uncut zenith]

Nope

[rough basalt]

Anyone starts anything in Sigil and you're done

[fossil hollow]

you worship her, you get flayed

[uncut zenith]

Nobody is allowed to worship the Lady of Pain by her own decree

[torpid ocean]

if my players ever tick me off if I ever run sigil I will throw the lady of pain at them

just bcs it's funny

[rough basalt]

Like you can see Devas and Incubi playing Humans and Jobs in Sigil cause if they fight like their nature's would assume, LoP would win

[uncut zenith]

She dislikes gods and being considered one of them. Likely because her job is to maintain balance in the multiverse and (regardless of their alignment) gods tend to unbalance the multiverse

[proper forum]

Bro how is she real 😭😭 who made her a goddess bro she sucks at her job

[rough basalt]

Well the rules for fighting the Lady of Pain are
"You don't."

[fossil hollow]

she isnt exactly a goddess either

[torpid ocean]

she's an overgod iirc

[uncut zenith]

Not a god at all

[fossil hollow]

And she doesnt suck at her job

her job is to rule over Sigil

[uncut zenith]

An enigmatic figure that even gods try not to mess with

[proper forum]

What's that

[fossil hollow]

what Ao is

[rough basalt]

If you start shit in Sigil, you get mazed if you're lucky

[torpid ocean]

an overgod is a diety above a greater god

basically they completely manipulate and control their own realm/plane however have basically no power outside of it

the dark powers for example have complete control of ravenloft and are [theoretically] all powerful

however they have little power outside of ravenloft

[rough basalt]

Which is why she isn't one.
She's just the Lady of Pain

[torpid ocean]

maybe she's something more than an overgod?

I'd have no trouble believing she has complete control of sigil

[proper forum]

"Yeah I don't wanna be a goddess ugh I'm better than all of you uogh look at me I'm so cool and edgy my name is literally lady of pain yeah puts on headphones and listens to edgy music" -The lady of pain, probably

[rough basalt]

She has power over the multiverse as a whole

[old berry]

That and she couldn't even be killed with "the last word", which could even kill Primus

[uncut zenith]

Again, she’s not an overgod either. Even Ao steers away from her.

[torpid ocean]

all the overgods do in some way I'd imagine

[rough basalt]

She's literally not a goddess

[torpid ocean]

wait who's primus

[uncut zenith]

What exactly she is is intentionally one of the biggest mysteries of the multiverse

[torpid ocean]

and that's because Ao has little power outside of the FR

[old berry]

Modron guy, god of modrons and ruler of mechanus

[torpid ocean]

honestly never heard of him lol. I'll take your word for it though

[uncut zenith]

Yeah Primus is essentially the quintessential god of “lawful neutrality”

[torpid ocean]

and again this is just how I like to percieve the story, it's intentionally left up to everyone's own judgement

if I think the lady of pain is an overgod then that's just how I percieve her

[proper forum]

A band

[torpid ocean]

after all dieties like her are intentionally vague so you can make your own interpretations of them

[old berry]

That too

[rough basalt]

Perhaps, but HC isn't viable for online discussion.

[torpid ocean]

I'd say part of it can be, after all there's no harm in sharing your headcanons

[rough basalt]

As long as you're saying it is sure.

[torpid ocean]

yeah

I'd say in #dnd-lore you should stick to the official material

[old berry]

Extremely even

[uncut zenith]

Well that’s true here too. If someone’s asking who the Lady of Pain is and you’re giving your own personal interpretation without saying that’s your own interpretation, that’s misleading

[torpid ocean]

then follow how the rule I follow, the most recent source is the continuity

[old berry]

Every major figure has like 5 backstorys

[torpid ocean]

yeah but I would do that before I give headcanons

unless I didn't earlier in which I'm sorry I didn't think to clarify

[scenic zinc]

In my opinion, there's no official canon. Everything official are myths or stories that are at best 2nd or 3rd hand retellings of incomplete information.

[undone fable]

so dnd is collaborative story telling?

[fossil hollow]

yes

youve asked this before

[undone fable]

Well, i want to try more of this collaborative storytelling.

[sterile briar]

Any good updated Druid spell cards anywhere?

[zenith wind]

Having the lore as a loose background lets players somewhat have an idea for mysteries

[topaz grove]

first session of my new campaign got delayed an entire week because one player couldn't show up and no weekdays would work :(

i COULD use this as extra prep time OR i could do nothing in the time between

[marble lion]

Definitely number two

[cinder timber]

I feel like I prep in tiny chunks when I get good ideas rather than sitting for two hours straight

[sterile briar]

Wait per 2024 circle of moon Druid can you cast spells in beast form before level 18 now?

[fossil hollow]

yes, just the subclass ones