#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 73 of 1

calm crest
#

The Dark Powers have been known to trap everything up to a greater deity (non-inclusive). So Shar could escape their grasp, but definitely doesn’t control them.

jagged apex
#

is understandable that shar does not have automatic control of it considering that rather than creating it outright she more so did some cosmic terraforming of the plane of shadow, what the plane was originally and is still sometimes referred to as

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Indeed.

#

One can spend a lot of time in an infinite pond without bumping into any other big fish.

jagged apex
#

honestly given the dark powers keep to the domains of dread and only really snatch up the worst of the worst from the prime material plane, seems that many enities tend to just let them do their own thing

#

especially since some historical darklords that met such a fate included followers of gods like umberlee, and she clearly did not mind enough to try to get them back, plenty of other worshipers after all, plus given some of her titles i doubt she'd be a god to care about one mortal unless maybe they were her chosen

iron saffron
#

Deities: "You're going snatch up Vecna into his own priviate jail? Be our guest!"

jagged apex
#

at least in 5e the people they snatch up are those who basically commit "irredeemable acts" so arguably them being trapped in their own personal torture realm that they sort of rule over, is in the best interested of the multiverse, not the reason the dark powers do so nessissarily, just happens to kind of work out that way

#

hence why i describe such people as "the worst of the worst"

calm crest
#

Deities leaving them alone seems smart, as the Dark Powers can somehow capture portions of non-standard cosmologies like Eberron and Athas. The former means the Dark Powers can supersede the Ring of Siberys, and the latter means they affect settings wholly disconnected from the core multiverse. Neither setting can normally access the Shadowfell, and neither setting can be accessed by gods. Furthermore, there are Domains of Dread that are as big as entire wildspace systems, like the Masque of the Red Death, where a single Dark Power controls a parallel Earth.

#

So the Dark Powers are definitely stronger than deities in some capacities, and weaker in others.

jagged apex
#

eh, or at least have a less common skillset, as lolth captures worlds in her realm, literally webbing them up kind of cosmic spider web, to partially quote the description of the demon web pits in the revised 5e monster manual "The webs conceal random portals that snare objects from demiplanes and Material Plane worlds that figure into the schemes of the Spider Queen. Lolth’s servants also build dungeons amid the webbing, trapping and hunting Lolth’s hated enemies within crisscrossing corridors of web-mortared stone." end quote

iron saffron
#

Think of the Dark Powers like a warden of prison, who's the head honcho of the prison but have no authority outside of the prison.

jagged apex
# iron saffron Think of the Dark Powers like a warden of prison, who's the head honcho of the p...

and basically let the most powerful inmates run the joint unless they try to do something they don't like, as save for the dark powers themselves, last i checked the dark lord of the domain, despite being the main captive, appart from never being allowed the one thing they truely desire and being regularly tormented by their past, they basically are the most powerful being in that domain with full control over it, almost like a god in their own realm

#

which usually just leads to the poor victims that got sucked into the domain when the dark powers yoinked it to suffer in addition to the dark lord

calm crest
#

Darklords aren’t always the most powerful entity within a domain, but they do typically have the ability to open or seal their domain and some sensory powers. Some Darklords are no more powerful than normal mortals, and some are elder brains or ancient liches.

jagged apex
#

fair, point is the dark lord is both, well, lord and prisoner/victim all at the same time

calm crest
#

My understanding is that only the Darklord gets pulled in, and the rest are essentially soulless simulacra.

#

The domain is a copy of a location, not the literal place.

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Kalidnay exists as both a Domain of Dread and as ruins in Athas.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, a domain could/would disppear after a Darklord is dispensed with or somehow escapes.

jagged apex
#

i believe that is one of the plot hooks for one of the 5e domains detailed in the ravenloft sourcebook, where that plane is falling apart cuz the dark lord is somehow gone and not just reformed like some such as strahd always do normally

calm crest
#

Hazlik didn’t take Thay with him when he became a Darklord.

#

Yes, Azalin Rex is believed to have escaped, dooming his domain.

jagged apex
#

and all the people who were still there, if memory serves including their own child

calm crest
#

Which would mean liches 2, Dark Powers 0.

#

Yes, the populace is still there. I can’t recall every retcon that 5e made to Ravenloft, especially due to the multiple-choice plots it offers, so I don’t know if Azalin’s son is currently Death, Darklord of Necropolis or not.

jagged apex
#

granted i could be wrong, but i was always under the impression or told that the lands were snatched up too 🤷

ebon star
#

Okay, random deity question: Any ideas for a neutral/good deity that would be open to a cleric that was more of a general employee vs a true devotee?

calm crest
jagged apex
ebon star
calm crest
jagged apex
#

at best one may task a mortal with a specific task for one reason or anther, but the angle you are looking for is typically more in line with the relationship between warlocks and their patrons

calm crest
#

In Eberron, deities are more conceptual, and there could a variety of expressions of cleric.

ebon star
#

Yeah, that's more of the relationship I was looking for. I want to get more into RPing my characters but RPing worship makes me squeamish (personal religious thing, not something I have a problem with other people doing)

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Verily.

ebon star
#

I blame cleric not having real competition for best heals

jagged apex
#

that is not really a lore thing

#

and clerics are more than just healing anyways

ebon star
#

True, I'll continue that frustration elsewhere

calm crest
#

Technically, 5e has established that once a cleric receives magic, a deity can’t rescind it. So an ex-faithful could still be a competent healer.

jagged apex
#

and historically to my knowledge they did not even need a god for at least 2nd or 3rd level spells, i forget which was from an old magazine article where a two headed ettin caster was detailed and was a tidbit of like 1e or 2e i found neat

calm crest
#

In AD&D, 1st and 2nd levels are granted by the cleric’s force of will. 3rd and 4th are bestowed by a deific servant. 5th+ are by direct divine intervention.

ebon star
#

In a more general sense, is there a good centralized wiki like site that has "all" the D&D lore that I can browse around?

jagged apex
#

honestly depends on the setting, edition, and even more so dm, so consult your dm to tailor it to your preferences if they are willing to for their world or their take on an existing world

scarlet sigil
jagged apex
#

yeah while it is mostly forgotten realms specific, much of the stuff especially relating to how gods work and planes of existence tends to translate to other settings unless stated otherwise in lore specific to that setting

calm crest
#

And some settings like Eberron and Athas have ambiguous or no deities. Clerics in the former are canonically the source of their own powers even if most do not realize it. The latter has elemental priests that venerate an element to get divine magic, as well as templars who are granted divine powers by being a loyal employee of a Sorcerer-King.

copper inlet
#

Hello I have a question
If the demon or a devil dies In the material world they will just go back to there world right but since the abyss and hell is one side of a cone what happen when let say a demon dies in hell or a devil in the abyss will they just die or will they go back to there original plance

iron saffron
#

I'm trying to parse your run on sentence.
What do you mean by "cone"?

#

If a fiend is killed on the Material Plane then its essence goes back to its home plane (Hell or the Abyss). If they are killed on their home plane then they're dead permanently.

calm crest
#

Traditionally, outsiders like fiends only die permanently on their own plane. This is a major reason by the Hells and the Abyss both try to keep the Blood War away from anything important.

iron saffron
#

Demons and devils also hire out yugoloth mercenaries to help them fight in the Blood War.

calm crest
#

Generally, the Blood War gets no further than Avernus or Pazunia, where droves of expendable mooks like manes and lemures are used drive off invaders.

#

But a demon killed in Avernus or a devil killed in Pazunia would reform in the Abyss or Hells, respectively.

jagged apex
#

or in the past if memory serves, if things get real desperate, tiamat basically blasting the enemy forces overhead with her breath weapons via a flyby, either way of the demons do manage to conqure avernus, and that's a big if, they gotta get past tiamat to get to dis and the other layers

#

and on the abyss side of things, the plane itself is semi conscious and once killed a whole pantheon of gods on it's own, so there is that

calm crest
#

And if devils bypass Pazuzu’s realm, they have infinite layers to deal with.

jagged apex
#

and are unlikely to know which portals lead where, and some layers of the abyss are completely uninhabitable even to the natives, so instant death in such cases they pass through a portal and wind up in one of those layers

calm crest
#

And if 4e’s cosmology is accepted, even destroying the Abyss won’t bring an end to demons.

jagged apex
#

well to my knowledge the known forces able to destroy the abyss completely are not even willing to take the risk, so the best they can do is contain it

calm crest
#

I imagine that a great deal of the Archdevils’ time is spent spreading further distrust between the Demon Lords, as that’s pretty much their only advantage against infinite armies of the damned.

jagged apex
#

like if i remember correctly, i heard that 6 ancient celestial dragons would be capable of doing the dead but at great risk to themselves, the 2e versions of celestial dragons just to be clear

#

hell's advantage is basically tactics, the abyss' infinite bodies to throw at the enemy

calm crest
#

Although interesting to ponder that the ancient Baatorians and the Obyriths never seemed to have the meaningless power struggle that modern devils and demons are locked in.

jagged apex
#

like their organized and skilled tactics are so fine tuned it more or less can level the playing field for them

#

well to be fair, the obyriths are in hiding, some forging such a notion and focusing on being a demon lord, and others because if the tanari knew they were an obyrith, they'd destroy them, especially demogorgon would

calm crest
#

Just as the nupperibos are constantly culled to make lemures in the Hells.

jagged apex
#

not sure why for the ancient baatorians assuming you mean the natives from before asmodeus arrived/made himself known, in which case they are likely outside of the infernal society and amries we hear of these days

calm crest
#

But historically it has always been proto-Baatezu vs. the Obyriths and later Tanar’ri, never Baatorians vs. Obyriths.

#

Pre-Blood War.

jagged apex
#

from my understanding it was more so law vs chaos

#

and before that tharzidun vs chaos, all be it retroactively

calm crest
#

Oh, certainly, but the denizens of what would become the Hells seem to be Lawful Evil just as the Obyriths are Chaotic Evil. Prior to the efforts of what would later be devils, it seemed like Baatorians and the early demons had no problems with each other.

copper inlet
jagged apex
#

they are the same in so far as they are both evil in nature, but that is about it

calm crest
#

Traditionally the Outer Planes are described as a wheel. A demon killed in Hell returns to the Abyss.

jagged apex
#

either resident would take comparing one to the other as an insult, the demon would likely be more inclined to rip your head off than they already are

copper inlet
iron saffron
jagged apex
#

sometimes, but not always

copper inlet
jagged apex
#

some devils are more noble than others, relatively

iron saffron
#

One of the alleged reasons for Asmodeus to be in the Blood War is that he wants the Shard of Ultimate Evil, which he has a piece of as the tip of his Ruby Rod. The Shard of Ultimate Evil is drilling into the depths of the Abyss, creating new layers as it goes.

copper inlet
jagged apex
iron saffron
jagged apex
thorny hound
#

do elementals have a core? like a heart or something similar to that?

calm crest
#

I’m not saying that the pre-devil ancient Baatorians (of which only nupperibos and possibly Zargon remain) are the same as the pre-demon Obyriths. My point is that those types of ancient evil beings didn’t have a Blood War.

jagged apex
#

like when a demon and a mortal are working together the demon usually does not have a choice, do to some sort of magic or more powerful entity they are actually working for and will take any chance to break free and kill the fool that summoned them if given the chance

iron saffron
#

Pazuzu, Graz'zt, Malcanthet, and Orcus are probably the most "reasonable" demon lords...

jagged apex
lost pebble
#

So being born a Tiefling (or Aasimar) is just something that can randomly happen right? Like a really extreme birthmark or something dndLol

jagged apex
#

they are more like energy beings anyway so would make very little difference

serene crater
#

iirc, pazuzu was probably the one you could probably get into a conversation with before he tries to kill you

copper inlet
jagged apex
serene crater
thorny hound
lost pebble
calm crest
#

Pazuzu famously aids good-aligned mortals for a price.

jagged apex
# copper inlet demogorgon?

not really, his two heads have each personality vying for control and trying to kill the other to take over, one is more reasonable and cunning while the other is basically gunna just cut to the chase and destroy you any anything else that gets in their way

copper inlet
#

Ok but if you would pick the worst from those three who would you pick
Demon
Devil
Fey

jagged apex
lost pebble
#

Both having boosts to Charisma in 2014 is interesting, I wonder if the two are anymore likely to be born with innate Magic like Sorcery then 🤔

Obviously it's flavour I could just make up in a self-made world but

#

Doesn't even have to be a huge deal more, just like, 1/3 Vs 1/4 or something

calm crest
#

Graz’zt may be the most inclined to serve lawful causes out of demonkind, and his realm is disparagingly called the Little Hells.

jagged apex
#

most beings of the outerplanes are more magical than mortals, so naturally that manifests in their blood as a tiefling or aasimar

lost pebble
#

Makes sense, thanks

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Since Slaadi have their brain gems.

jagged apex
#

elemental slaadi is arguably a stretch do to the nature of chaos stuff, not kidding that is the actual name of the substance XD

iron saffron
#

4E kinda squished everything as "elemental" due to the introduction of the Elemental Chaos. Demons were "elementals"...

jagged apex
#

and other things that are very far removed from any other edition's lore and such

iron saffron
#

That's why I ignored most lore stuff from 4E at my table...

calm crest
#

The blurring of the chaotic Slaadi and the CE demons didn’t do their often arbitrary distinctions any favors in 4e, either.

iron saffron
#

Yugoloths were considered demons in 4E.

calm crest
#

To be fair, they were daemones…

jagged apex
#

is why anything that did get well recevied about 4e lore, got a 5e version rework rather than being dragged and dropped, like the raven queen, my personal favorite example

iron saffron
#

I prefer the name "daemon", which they removed during the 2E Satanic Panic but didn't revert when devils and demons were.

jagged apex
#

probably cuz how close it is to demon and how in some languages is probably literally the same thing, it was deemed to confusing to justify

crude blaze
calm crest
#

Demodand is definitely a better name than gehreleth, but I don’t mind yugoloth for daemon.

iron saffron
crude blaze
#

Gotcha

jagged apex
#

kind of like the wendigo, which was a fey in 3e that just happen to also live in a specific layer of the abyss

calm crest
#

I am kinda disappointed that there is currently no major CG outsider faction as 4e made the status of Eladrin complicated.

jagged apex
#

well chaotic already lends itself towards a lack of order which is usually important to what makes a faction a faction

iron saffron
#

Too many iterations of eladrin...

#

Eladarin: high elf variant, feywild variant, outer planes variant

calm crest
#

Because we currently have Demons, Yugoloths, Devils, Modrons, Rilmani, Slaadi, Archons, Guardinals, and then a vague shrug in the direction of Arborea.

iron saffron
#

Demodands

#

Celestial eladrin

jagged apex
calm crest
#

Oh, sure, there are Demodands and Inevitables, but there aren’t any confirmed categories of Chaotic Good outsider, other than the assumption that celestial Eladrin probably still exist.

reef cape
crude blaze
jagged apex
#

at least with the ones native to arborea, they got specified as Celestial eladrin, implying that eladrin was just what they were called for short, not sure if that was retroactive or not, but it works in my opinion

reef cape
crude blaze
calm crest
#

I believe that they’re called “day-moan” or “day-moan-ez” as the plural.

reef cape
#

Damn, I got that wrong for years

iron saffron
#

4E had generic non-celestial angels that served all gods rather than just the Upper Planes good-aligned gods.

reef cape
#

Oh well, what do I care? I've been calling them Yugoloth to avoid confusion for this reason

crude blaze
reef cape
#

I blame my greek middle school teacher.

crude blaze
reef cape
#

Now, on the topic of celestial eladrins, I think there's a good chance they'll be retconned out of existence. It's not like they had a big impact on the lore anyways

calm crest
jagged apex
#

funny thing is your average person on most dnd worlds probably is not gunna know the difference between 1 type of fiend and another until it is tool late XD

crude blaze
calm crest
reef cape
#

Ninth? Wait, we've got angels for "general good", archons for lawful good, slaadi for chaotic neutral, demons for chaotic evil, yugoloths for neutral evil, devils for lawful evil, inevitables for lawful neutral...

crude blaze
#

Angels are typically LG

jagged apex
#

generic good is not a thing

#

neutral good is, but that is different than generic

calm crest
#

Angels are just genetically good. Essentially miscellaneous celestials like concubi are to fiends.

reef cape
#

My brain is getting confused between Pathfinder and D&D.

crude blaze
#

Guardinals are the neutral good ones iirc

#

At least based on Planescape 5E

calm crest
#

Yes, they’ve always been the NG celestials.

reef cape
#

I need to compartimentalize better. So, it's in pathfinder that angels are just "any good", right?

#

Damnable brain getting confused

crude blaze
#

I believe so

calm crest
#

Both.

#

Angels are any good in both, but lean lawful in D&D.

crude blaze
#

Aside from specific NPCs and setting specific angels (namely the ones you see in the MTG settings), the angels (solars, planetars, devas) of 5E are all LG

calm crest
#

And angels expressly aren’t Neutral Good over any other flavor of good.

jagged apex
#

in 5e they are lawful good, but there are technically two kinds of angels in dnd, one being from the astral sea

iron saffron
#

I wished they kept the deva variants.

calm crest
#

Yeah, as do I.

jagged apex
#

angel is basically a sort of family, like dragon, or goblin, is semi-catch all term for a collection of similar creatures

reef cape
#

Well, I suppose that's always the problem with good outsiders, right? Having too many of them is a bit of a waste of page count considering their actual function within the game

jagged apex
#

except it has nothing to do with that

crude blaze
jagged apex
#

lore does not care about game functions, lore is the in universe stuff

#

like mortals can be good or evil and thus fight good or evil entities, for one reason or another

#

is just most adventurers traditionally lean towards fighting evil, is a trope of sorts but is by no means any sort of rule or cosmic law

#

granted his seven wyrms are there to heal you incase he gets a bit too carried away

reef cape
#

That is not what I meant Scarlet.

calm crest
#

Well, holier-than-thou Arcadia would be happy to pick a fight with anyone even marginally less good or lawful.

jagged apex
#

plus in dnd not everything is gunna be fully defined, so just cuz some planes have major groups of creatures that can be treated like a faction, does not mean every one needs to or has one

reef cape
#

I meant that the reason there are few angels and the deva variants have not been kept is that it makes sense considering their function within the game

#

It's not a matter of lore or game. It's why 5e did not introduce that lore.

crude blaze
jagged apex
#

plus with some creatures, like demons, what we have detailed in the lore is canonically only a drop in the bucket, cuz you know infinite, of the possible kinds of creatures that may arise from the abyss

crude blaze
#

Ysgard's happy to pick a fight, regardless of alignment

jagged apex
reef cape
#

Actually, we have multiple books entirely dedicated to demons, fleshing them out, fleshing out the abyss, explaining their deal and their systems. No book went into that much detail about the celestial planes

jagged apex
#

like the list of don'ts is rather small in ysgard, it basically rewards the strong

calm crest
# crude blaze Gods forbid you end up in Ysgard

To be fair, all of their buddies come back after you bury an axe in their head. How were they supposed to know better? Besides, if knowing things was your lot in life, you definitely ended up in the wrong plane.

jagged apex
#

yeah as long as you don't do something as cowardly as a putting that axe in the back of their head when they ain't looking, you ain't gunna get points for that, if anything you are gunna be less likely to come back the next dawn if you happen to bite it

calm crest
#

My main point for the missing CG classification of celestial is that the Great Wheel is built on the assumption of the rule of threes. There are nine alignments, three threes. From 3e to 1e, each of these nine extremes had an outsider for a complete three threes. Now there are eight with an obvious gap in the framework.

reef cape
#

Wait, what about true neutral?

calm crest
#

Rilmani.

#

They are in charge of maintaining perfectly neutral order.

#

Which is odd that they’re celestials and not constructs or elementals given their form and function, but eh.

jagged apex
#

they got redesigned and reintroduced in planescape, in the outlands they basically keep things in balance, to much evil in the outlands, they will go do something good to balance it out, and vice versa

reef cape
#

You know, that's why I should have read Planescape more deeply. I had no idea Rilmanis were brought back

#

Although... Isn't "neutral order" an oxymoron? Order is not neutral.

jagged apex
#

to be fair, they are entirely different looking to past editions so easy miss if you were not paying attention and were just skimming it or something

#

they balance things out, what i said about good and evil, applies to order aka law, and chaos too

calm crest
#

The artwork is way different, but flowing metal humanoid has remained the same.

jagged apex
#

it does make a bit of sense, keep the great wheel balanced by keeping the middle of the cosmos, which the outlands is often treated as, balanced

calm crest
#

Definitely.

reef cape
#

I don't know if it does make sense. The middle is balanced by definition. If it's not balanced, it's not the middle.

#

Whatever is balanced is the middle.

jagged apex
#

yeah but people live there from all over the multiverse, hense things like the gate towns

#

it is not just constantly perfectly balanced at all times

#

things happen there

#

they make sure it stays balanced

calm crest
#

The other planes are constantly scheming to absorb more of the Outlands.

#

The Rilmani want to take back what has been stolen.

jagged apex
calm crest
#

True.

jagged apex
calm crest
#

But given the balance of the Great Wheel being such a big part of the setting, it’s odd to not have major confirmed CG outsiders after the Eladrin confusion.

reef cape
#

Blame 4e.

jagged apex
#

eh, who knows, we do have a new revised 5e monster manual on the way with new lore to go with new monsters and versions of monsters

reef cape
#

Since 4e did away with the great wheels, and with half the alignments, they did not need CG, since CG did not exist anymore. So they were free to use the term eladrin for elves.

jagged apex
#

so might be we just don't have one yet

calm crest
reef cape
#

Now, the word eladrin is kind of...Tainted. For most players of this generation, it means a specific type of elves. I'm sure most don't know it used to be the CG celestials

jagged apex
#

i disagree

#

it much like angel is more of a subcategory, just not to one singular creature type

reef cape
#

What do you disagree with exactly?

jagged apex
#

and it might just be me but i find that perfectly digestible so long as there are differentiation like with the celestial eladrin

#

i disagree with it being "tainted"

#

at the very least i feel saying such a thing is an exaguration

calm crest
#

They could just use the celestial Eladrin subtype names and call the group Arboreans, and I’d be happy.

jagged apex
#

yeah i feel it is more fair to say the term is muddled, or is it muddied, which ever idk, as it currently is, not tainted

reef cape
#

Arborean would be a good term for that, yes. Just stop using eladrin for them

jagged apex
#

eh, i think just keeping the destinction of celestial eladrin would also be fine

#

like to me the issue is just using the term "eladrin" full stop, to reffer to any one of them with 0 elaboration

heady hare
#

Was Elminster involved in founding cult of dragon?

#

I thought he was good aligned character but forgotten realms wiki says he is one of the founders

cinder cloud
#

No.

Not all of Elminster's apprenticeships ended well. By Mystra's request El began tutoring Sammaster, one of the goddess's other Chosen who went on to found the Cult of the Dragon. The relationship between the two mages quickly became contentious.

iron saffron
#

I think you misread it:

...founded by Sammaster, a powerful wizard and former Chosen of Mystra like Elminster and Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun.
The cult was found by Sammaster. He was a former Chosen of Mystra (Elminster is a Chosen as well).

cinder cloud
#

Jinx

jagged apex
#

and he did not form the cult of the dragon until many years later, so i think saying elminster was involved in it's founding at all, would be beyond a stretch

cinder cloud
#

It's more likely OP just misread the wiki

jagged apex
#

heck, in one of the crossover things that the forgotten realms wiki at least makes mention of, on the far-off world of Adenthia, from a different game which is inspired by dnd, the two of them fought in a spell battle and elminster and another character even were the ones to destroy Sammaster, again

#

which seems to be chronologically in his timeline before his last appearance in 3e

heady hare
teal rock
#

Does Asmodeus have any godly enemies? Specific ones.

regal girder
#

What exactly are souls?

iron saffron
regal girder
#

What are they made of though, and how do they get there in the first place?

iron saffron
#

They aren't made out of stuff. They're spirits.

#

Living creatures are born with them.

heady hare
#

Are events of BG3 considered to be canon?

iron saffron
#

In BG3.

heady hare
#

In overall DnD

iron saffron
#

Think of the MCU movies, Marvel comics, and Marvel video games. They all have their own lore but not official in the other.

#

BG3 wasn't made by WotC but licensed out.

cinder cloud
#

As OldMan pointed out, the events of BG3 are canon for that game. WotC only considers the published D&D books for the current edition as canon, for example. The FR wiki has its own canon that it defines, as another example.

iron saffron
#

That said, characters from the BG video games series have been brought over, such as Minsc and Boo.

jagged apex
#

i believe we answered this question before, i know we did, but what i mean is i believe we answered it to nemesis specifically unless i am misremembering

#

though bg3 was designed to tie into decent into avernus, i believe taking place after the events of that adventure, so presumably some version of the events may have happened in the published continuity, but we will not know until such events are referenced

#

but like dragonball "canon" is a word that makes no sense to be used without elaboration in reference to dnd lore as it has always had more than one continuity and likely always will even if the publisher has their own that they follow

storm dagger
#

In the future we will probably see references to BG 3 as having happened

#

The upcoming FR setting guide will probably mention some of it in the Baldur’s Gate setting.

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

storm dagger
#

But I doubt they will go into too much direct detail

cinder cloud
#

WotC has been pretty clear on what they deem canon, and video games are not included

storm dagger
#

Not really.

cinder cloud
storm dagger
#

I fully expect references in the upcoming setting guide given that a section is going to be about Baldur’s Gate

storm dagger
cinder cloud
#

If you have an updated source, feel free to share it. Otherwise, that is the official stance from WotC for 5e as a whole, at least as far as what they consider canon.

storm dagger
#

I am 99% sure that they will talk about the events of BG 3 having happened, like they have talked about BG 1 and 2 having happened

#

They can adopt things into canon

teal rock
cinder cloud
#

You can certainly speculate, but the statements above are their official stance.

cinder cloud
#

Also, it depends on the setting

storm dagger
#

Like I can’t think of a single deity on any Setting Asmodeus is involved in that is not opposed to him in someway

#

Tiamat is as far as I know the only one with a semi positive relationship

teal rock
#

Deities usually have a few gods that they dislike more than others. Did Asmodeus not earn the wrath of any specific god or goddess?

teal rock
storm dagger
#

Well in FR he killed Azuth the god of wizards who has since returned

#

So Azuth and his superior goddess Mystra probably hate him a lot

cinder cloud
teal rock
#

For example, I expect Chauntea not be a fan of Maglubiyet but I know the two don't really have any real beef.

cinder cloud
teal rock
#

Yes, I did visit that page. Almost all deities have specific enemies but Asmodeus doesn't seem to be have any.

teal rock
cinder cloud
storm dagger
#

In 3e he pretty much pissed off every Law aligned god when he cheated them. They allowed him to build Hell to punish evil souls

#

But then he started to drag more to hell by tempting mortals to evil

#

In 4e he was an angel that slew his own god and stole his power earning the enmity of all the other gods for his treachery

iron saffron
#

Of course one of the great thing about Asmodeus lore is that we don't truly know his origins (it's like the Joker from The Dark Knight movie). He doesn't want us to know.

storm dagger
#

His origin has pretty much been different each time

#

I don’t think 5e bothered with it, he’s the King of Hell

#

Decide on your own if you want to do more

iron saffron
#

I love the one where his true body is a colossal snake and his humanoid form is just an avatar.

storm dagger
#

I think that was late 2e lore

iron saffron
#

Yeah.

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

also he is not described as the king, that is simply one thing someone could call him do to being the top of the hierarchy, at least in the new dmg when it mentions him in regards to the nine hells

#

i find it strange though that he and lolth don't have entries in the lore glossary so that book's only info is indirect and not usually the kind of stuff you tend to actually be looking for

storm dagger
#

Asmodeus gets a fair amount of descrption in the Nine Hells section.

stable yacht
#

What are some not-as-popular characters n Forgotten Realms that could serve as a surprising BBEG?

One I heard about is Null, who is the sibling of Tiamat and Bahamut

storm dagger
#

I think Null was just another name for Chronepsis

#

He’s not really evil as far I recall

#

Anyway Fzoul could make a good villain

#

Fzoul Chembryl is Bane’s foremost chosen and and an exarch in his service.

stable yacht
storm dagger
#

Yeah it says another of his names is Chronepsis

stable yacht
#

An alias, yes

#

And although there isn’t a current alignment listed, they were listed as lawful evil/neutral in 3e and 2e. So the DM could craft a story in having Null be a BBEG if they wanted. (Or an ally if they wanted)

stable yacht
humble wing
#

Are there any books that talks about the abyss?

#

Or novels

iron saffron
calm crest
pallid flower
#

Is there a description of female goblins anywhere?

iron saffron
pallid flower
#

It only describes their role in society

#

I should’ve specified appearances

iron saffron
#

Google "female goblin" perhaps?

#

You asked in the lore channel...

pallid flower
#

Yeah just tried that
It seems that they may have been illustrated in ||ToA||
And they don’t differ much from males

pallid flower
iron saffron
#

That link is the best we have outside of illustrations.

unkempt merlin
#

Or bg3, for FR goblins anyways

obsidian gate
#

not sure if google will give usable results for "female goblin" 😐

reef cape
#

Do I want to check?

feral lintel
#

... its def gonna give you weird stuff

modest badger
#

Inappropriate topics aside (And be careful of that folk) many googling 'goblins' is not going to be useful for many reasons, especially as much of the art and depictions you'll find are not at all specific to D&D (See how most goblins are depicted green, while D&D goblins are usually shades and hues of yellow-orange).

#

It'd be far more useful to try and direct to official examples of goblins in art, even from different media, such as the examples in modules or BG3.

jagged apex
#

there is queen grabstab from the biting ant tribe of the batiri is a good example of what female goblins tend to look like in the forgotten realms at least, grabstab being from tome of annihilation https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Grabstab

modest badger
jagged apex
#

honestly much like humans and other non reptilian races ain't that much different from their male counterparts, else seems at least what is on the forgotten realms wiki, most examples of goblin individuals are either from games, have no artwork, the artwork is not full body, or they are male, so unfortunitely we don't have many visual examples it seems strictly from published books at least in the realms

jagged apex
storm dagger
#

I think it’s a female goblin

jagged apex
modest badger
modest badger
# storm dagger I think it’s a female goblin

The mini def confirms a female presentation. This is one issue of going off images alone to assume a character's gender, as what gender we interpret and believe the character to be presenting might not match the gender intended by the artist, and 'intention' and 'interpretation' aren't quite 'Lore as written'. But you can see in the artists description and the fuller art she is intended to be a woman.
https://mikejordana.artstation.com/projects/3d0ByA

pallid flower
stable elk
#

Any creature with photographic memory ? Or passive keen mind ? Or any spell that allows me to instantly memorize anything that I see ?

Creature would be great to know !

cinder cloud
#

Elder brains retain the memories of every mindflayer that joined with them.

#

Aboleths also have flawless memory and pass on their cumulative knowledge

jagged apex
#

aboleths basically got a flawless photographic memory that is baked into their genetics to where their spawn inherit said memories

muted marsh
#

would you guys say that a young dragon's bottom jaw would fit nicely in a 5x5 square?

ionic rivet
muted marsh
#

ah misclicked

#

MB

stable elk
jagged apex
#

it is refered to as racial memory, also it can gain the memories of those it consumes

#

for books they are from, check the citations

storm dagger
cinder cloud
#

It doesn't copy personality or anything, just memories.

jagged apex
#

and even then the offspring still needs to grow over time to be anywhere close to it's parent in terms of size and strength in the physical sense

#

despite the method and the same memories they are still 2 individuals

sharp halo
#

I was just bestowed this piece of lore saying “tiefling breast milk tastes like butter milk with a hint of cinnamon”

clever path
#

That’s official and canon per Ed Greenwood. You can thank Vtuber Tiefling Melissa for this

sharp halo
#

That’s so insane😭

#

I mean, now since we have one we gotta do all of the races, right?

clever path
#

No

crude blaze
clever path
#

This is a pg server

clever path
crude blaze
clever path
#

You knew that before asking so the rhetorical was pointless

crude blaze
#

I didn’t know. I’m only aware of official 5E content.

clever path
#

Ah. Came across as sass. My bad then

crude blaze
#

All good

fallow leaf
#

depends on the type of canon. Things greenwood says are canon to his realms but not neccesarily canon to the wotc published realms

crude blaze
#

Yeah, similar to Keith Baker and Eberron. What he refers to as “Kanon” isn’t necessarily official.

pallid flower
#

Eanon

iron raptor
#

in a non rude way, why does the community seem so pertained to only using what was written in officially public books?
is this just because its the official server, or the way of the medium as a whole? it seems very .. this is my good book and im not listening at times

pallid flower
feral lintel
#

Youre free to do whatever for your games, but this channel specifically is for whats published

iron raptor
#

okay so this is just the official archive

feral lintel
#

Not a lore thing

midnight minnow
#

whoops, wrong channel

pallid flower
#

I’d argue that things like Kanon are still ok to be discussed here, as long as they’re labeled as such

modest badger
#

Yep, you can think of it as the equivalent of RAW (Rules as written) and RAI (Rules as intended). LAW and LAI.

In general we tend to stick with LAW, because that is the common ground we all can agree upon for our references. If it's in an official book, it's official lore, even if retconned.

LAI, such as the word of the author, isn't as official. It's not in the book, it's not really apart of the lore/story in the same way. That's not to say it can't be helpful to read as it can give some insight into what the author was intending and planning.

#

Canon is it's own kettle of fish, as canon is really more subjective to it's particular medium and edition. What is canon in the Baldur's Gate games for example might not be canon in the TTRPG or Novels. What is canon in 1e may not be canon in 3e.

You can generally assume that lore might still be applicable until it's obvious retconned or changed, and it can still be useful to discuss the earlier changed lore to see where an idea came from and changed.

#

On this note, it can be very interesting to look into a wiki and how it tries to organise tiers of officialness and canonicity. The Forgotten Realms Wiki for example considers Ed Greenwood's word to be official and canon. Some of the Greyhawk Wikis (there's like, three now, although one is a remake of another) will give some authors more weight, so even if they publish in a non official publication (like the fan publication 'Oerth Journal' or fanzines), they'll consider that author's article to be worth including in the wiki. However forum posts and such by even Gygax? Nah.

Some wikis also try to lay out all the lore with notes where it came from, and will let the reader decide what they want to take from it. So no removing 1e lore to replace with updated 5e lore, or deciding that official core books outweigh Dragon Magazine articles- it all goes in. Other wikis (like the FR Wiki) will try to keep up with the most up to date lore for FR, removing overwritten/ retconned lore, as needed. Both approaches have pros and cons.

Def worth looking into how lore is curated in the sources you draw upon.

dull vessel
#

Do elder brains produce tadpoles as well or is that just mind flayers?

sharp owl
#

The mind flayers lay the eggs that hatch into tadpoles, which are then placed in pools while they await implantation
The elder brain manages the population of tadpoles in the brine pools

#

The elder brain doesn't actually have any physical role, in fact the brine pool is often kept distinctly isolated from the tadpole pools

grizzled star
#

I have a question about the diction of the dnd world,

what do people call life besides for words like "Man" or "Humanity", those don't work for obviously cause there is more species than humans(and even "human" is a little grey sometimes) and saying "Mortal" also has some issues

sharp owl
#

I think in many settings "peoples" is used

grizzled star
#

makes sense

#

seeing that Tolkien uses "Free Poeple" as his word in that world

dusk quail
#

see the elf soul cycling stuff? how does that work with half elves or someone who was turned into an elf via the reincarnate spell or no longer being an elf via the same spell

iron saffron
#

No, half-elves don't have spirits that reincarnate. Their souls move onto the afterlife like their human parents.

dusk quail
#

and what about the reincarnate spell changing race? would it just be a human soul in an elven body/vice versa?

grim siren
#

Mordenkainen Tome of Foes, Chapter 2

From the elven perspective, the birth of a half-elf represents a disruption of the natural order of reincarnation. Elves in different communities and across different worlds have numerous ideas about the nature of the disruption, because the gods have never given an answer that seems applicable to all. The soul of a half-elf might be an elf soul whose connection to the Seldarine has been weakened, or it might be a true elf soul trapped in the body of a half-elf until death, or the soul that lies beneath one’s elf-like visage might be human.

Many elves, especially the younger ones, view the existence of half-elves as a sign of hope rather than as a threat — an example of how elf souls can experience the world in new ways, not bound to a single physical form or a particular philosophy.

Many different Recincarnate spells in different player's handbook discuss how the Soul remembers the past life, but the soul is merely inhabiting a new body. Basically same head different hat. So the soul does not change.

iron saffron
dusk quail
#

ah okay got it

dusk quail
iron saffron
#

Half-elves don't have past lives because they don't reincarnate.

#

Elves forget their past lives when they reach 100 years old.

fallow leaf
dusk quail
dusk quail
grim siren
#

Yes they remember their past lives if they have an elven soul. At some point during adulthood, the reverie of an elf’s trance is first interrupted by a new form of unbidden thought. This seemingly errant memory arises not from the elf’s personal experience, nor from the memories of the elf’s primal soul, but comes from another life and another time. An elf’s first experience of this sort is often referred to as the Remembrance and attributed to the influence of Labelas Enoreth. Or it is called the Revelation, and Araleth Letheranil is honored for its occurrence. Regardless of its label, this event marks the start of a new phase in an elf’s life..

dusk quail
#

thats cool

#

this dnd original stuff or tolkien stuff?

fallow leaf
#

Forgotten realms stuff

dusk quail
#

ah kk

grim siren
#

Mordnenkainen Tome of Foes Chapter 2

iron saffron
#

D&D elves are very different from Tolkien ones.

dusk quail
#

ah

fallow leaf
#

Yeah Tolkien elves main trait is mostly just being immortals

dusk quail
#

cuz ik a lot was inspired by tolkien stuff as a basis of fantasy

grim siren
#

DnD borrows much less from tolkien than people think

dusk quail
#

oh

grim siren
#

Gygax famously loathed LotR

fallow leaf
#

Yeah Tolkien wasn’t really the main inspiration for d&d during its creation and was mostly added because it was popular

#

More inspired by pulp stories like Conan the barbarian

dusk quail
#

ah fair

iron saffron
#

Tolkien elves are very tall and immortal. D&D elves are shorter on average than humans and only live up to 700 years.

fallow leaf
#

Part of me wishes that there was an alternate elf race block who was a little more Tolkien like and had more abilities based on being long lived than being descended from fey

grim siren
#

Many things that were added were added to get people to stop asking him to add it lmao.

Because its important to remember we are further away from the Fellowship of the Ring movie right now. Than Gyagx was from the first publishing of the Fellowship of the Ring Book when DnD was first produced.

Fellowship movie to now, 24 Years

Fellowship book to DnD, 20 years

fallow leaf
#

Also most of the stuff gygax said about the importance of Tolkien on d&d was after getting sued by the Tolkien estate so grain of salt

#

They were just called hobbits and balrogs and ents in the first printings of the first d&d books

iron saffron
#

Hobbits > halflings. Ents > treants. Balrog > balor.

#

Yeah, the illustrations of early halflings were barefooted.

grim siren
#

which is funny because Balor is a real mythological creature

fallow leaf
#

Also orcs got a pass because while orcs the way they were presented were pretty much Tolkien orcs but etymologically orc is arguably derived from a historical word so it was arguable enough that d&d and fantasy in general got to keep orcs

iron saffron
#

D&D orcs are very different from Tolkien. The former being more porcine (the 1E orcs had pig heads).

lethal shard
#

Are there lore reasons that justify what spells are in which spell schools beyond simple logic? For example, why is Mage Hand conjuration, but Bigby’s Hand is evocation?

grim siren
#

Its also important to note that Tolkein Estate was not the group that sued TSR. It was actually Saul Zaentz's group, Tolkien Enterprises who was the merchandising compnay

fallow leaf
unkempt merlin
fallow leaf
#

Like, one can argue necromancy is barely a real spell school and a lot of the spells are just other schooled spells with a vague theming of death

#

speak with dead is divination, finger of death is evocation, summon undead is conjuration

#

Just a thought experiment more or less

lethal shard
#

Thanks! And yeah, I figured it was just a really loose categorization system

iron saffron
muted marsh
#

would warforge need a bed?

iron saffron
#

Warforged don't need to sleep.

cinder cloud
#

And beds aren't required to sleep.

snow laurel
#

Let's say I'm joining a campaign where my character starts at like level three or five or something. Would you say that simply surviving a rough part of the city of sigil like the hive Ward for a few years is enough to justify having a few character levels?

unkempt merlin
#

Not super a lore thing

cinder cloud
snow laurel
#

(I've got an idea for a character who is a junior Harper agent from The forgotten realms who got trapped in Sigil and got radicalized by one of the philosophical factions there, and then found his way back home)

iron saffron
#

Are you asking specifics of Sigil?

#

Discussing character ideas/backstories isn't the place for this channel.

gloomy brook
#

How are Zhentarim perceived by the common folk? Are they seen as a band of criminals, thugs and assassins or more as a professional mercenary company?

tall berry
gloomy brook
#

What about Sword Coast, 5e?

jagged apex
#

like if you know who they are, you either are an enemy or you are likely paying them for protection or afraid of them i'd imagine, given the nature of the kind of things they are typically involved in even post second sundering, else SCAG and it's summary of them are likely the pest place to get a modern vibe for how the common folk might view them

#

but at least going by SCAG, seems their reputation among the common folk is better than it use to be, but given their lines of work and tendancy to work in secret, might not even know about them other they are an organization that people know of

iron saffron
#

Well, over 100 years has passed. Long enough for them to rebrand.

tall berry
# gloomy brook What about Sword Coast, 5e?

Personally, and this is because I have known the Zhentarim since 1e, they will always be a a network of not so savory people. And that is how some of them are portrayed in 5e. But they have become more of a merc organization which leads to a whole new dynamic of things.

teal rock
#

Are empyreans the offspring of a god or the offspring of two gods?

#

I assume an empyrean has two godly parents instead of an immortal one and a mortal one.

unkempt merlin
#

They are titans which means they can be both

#

They might be birthed from the union of two deities, manufactured on a divine forge, born from the blood spilled by a god, or otherwise brought about through divine will or substance.

teal rock
#

What do you mean with "they are titans"?

unkempt merlin
teal rock
#

It seems that empyreans don't have mortal parents from that little paragraph that you sent.

iron saffron
#

Titan now includes "epic" level monsters such as the tarrasque.

unkempt merlin
#

"Otherwise brought about through divine will or substance" could very much include a mortal

feral lintel
#

and the kraken, or the giant scions

#

basically, anything made by the gods directly

unkempt merlin
#

Yep

teal rock
feral lintel
#

Its simply a tag

calm crest
#

Demigods and generic divine avatars have been previously represented by Empyreans.

unkempt merlin
iron saffron
#

Back in 1E, titans were what the empyreans are now. 3.5E titans were gargantuan giants.

feral lintel
unkempt merlin
#

Because there's many ways that gods can. Make stuff.

teal rock
#

Empyreans can be one of the kind of celestials that can create aasimars by uniting with a mortal, right?

feral lintel
#

like most planetouched, their origins are varied

#

Aasimar were human-based planetouched, native outsiders that had in their blood some good, otherworldly characteristics. They were often, but not always, descended from celestials and other creatures of pure good alignment, but while predisposed to good alignments, aasimar were by no means always good.

#

Empyreans fall under celestials, so yes

teal rock
feral lintel
#

(I do have an empyrean who is attuned to the Wand of Orcus... perhaps he went rogue after retrieving it)

teal rock
#

I'd be surprised if he hadn't.

fast sable
#

so with the new unearthed arcana, and the new subclasses/improved subclasses for forgotten realms... is anyone wondering if Cormyr is getting a boost... like if purple dragon knights now ride around on dragons!!! -- wouldnt the cormyrian army (air force) be like nearly unstoppable... did they just make Cormyr the targaryens?

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

We'll have to wait and see with the two new FR books. This channel isn't really for speculation of what hasn't been published yet.

#

Remember it's UA and it may not make it to final print (personally I'm not a fan of the dragon pet/mount since the PDK were never directly tied to dragons).

storm dagger
fast sable
# storm dagger Depends how rare they are.

perhaps... as a subclass i think it will be rare still and likely many might opt to not allow... but if the subclass is really representative of the nations "war force" and they have these "pets" at 3rd level... wouldnt that nation have -- um -- not rare -- almost common place... I just think the lore implications of realigning the PDK to be dragon riders... isnt sound.

iron saffron
#

Well, give them feedback. I plan to.

fast sable
# iron saffron Well, give them feedback. I plan to.

dont get me wrong i think there is a place for that type of subclass... and maybe it can align to purple dragons... but they need to relore cormyr to have like 100 PDK... not be the basis of their military... true a 14th level PDK will be rare... but still in the thousands... that many purple dragons in a few hundred miles... isnt even sustainable...

cinder cloud
#

There is no such lore supporting the idea that they use dragons at all, let alone ride such sentient creatures. The new subclass recently released in UA has very little to do with existing lore.

fast sable
cinder cloud
#

I don't know what they're doing

#

Only that it has nothing to do with current lore

iron saffron
#

This channel isn't for speculating. We'll have to wait for the new FR books to come out to find out.

jagged apex
cinder cloud
#

Yes. None of that conflicts with what I wrote

jagged apex
#

i know, i was saying it as to be in addition to what you said

modest badger
wide nimbus
#

How hands on would Mystra be?
I'm planning a campaign involving something that might deeply offend her or something, and I was thinking of how she might react

clever path
#

Kinda depends which mystra you have or if it’s actually midnight (her current replacement iirc)

iron saffron
#

After the Tablets of Fate crisis, Ao order the gods to be less directly involved in the affairs of the mortals.

wide nimbus
#

Current replacement.

Ah I see. Might she send one of her chosen to do stuff?

iron saffron
#

Yes, she has a lot of Chosen to pick from.

clever path
#

Yes the chosen are literally her loophole against what Ao said. The way she made them is super morally dubious as well but they kinda do what she needs to. They’re 1/3 her kids

iron saffron
#

Other gods have Chosen but she got hers at a bulk discount.

clever path
#

Happens when you defile a marriage yea

wide nimbus
#

Lovely.

storm dagger
#

Clerics, Chosen, and devout worshippers are the main tools gods in FR have to deal with their interests

jagged apex
#

but that is usually what a god's chosen are for, to act on their god's behalf

jagged apex
wide nimbus
#

I was reading the Forgotten Realms wiki and came across this passage on Epic magic

Mystra and Azuth were aware of all casting attempts, and would afflict all casters involved with feeblemindedness (as in the feeblemind spell), as well as remove the written spell from existence, if they considered the casting to be for purely selfish and/or malevolent ends, that is, running counter to the free and individualistic development of magic.

Does this still happen after Ao's decree?

jagged apex
jagged apex
# wide nimbus I was reading the Forgotten Realms wiki and came across this passage on Epic mag...

yes, and it does not go against it to my knowledge because the laws on toril regarding magic beyond what is known to us as 9th level, are a cosmic thing, put in place to protect the weave and thus the world, and she is also part of the weave, so monitoring and shutting down any attempts that would reveal that such magic is still technically possible to the wider world or otherwise be used in a manner that is not deemed worthy, least to my knowledge, is more so self defense in a sense than "mortal affairs"

jagged apex
wide nimbus
#

I see

#

Causing a semi permanent 1 mile wide antimagic field due the all the magic in that area being drained as a result of something like a Mythal definitely counts?

tawny raven
#

Very, very strange question, but hypothetically could a Tiefling be the offspring of a Quasit?😅

calm crest
#

Near as I can tell, quasits are incapable of reproduction. They are shaped from larvae or manes rather than giving birth to new quasits, and they lack sex characteristics.

storm dagger
#

Auril is another god that chose to stay and be weakened for example.

storm dagger
storm dagger
#

Fiends don’t reproduce with each other very much, but can with Mortals

calm crest
#

Tanar’ri are generally capable of reproduction, which is why I was checking quasits specifically. Unlike most tanar’ri, which can change their sex characteristics on a whim, quasits consistently seem to lack them across editions. Being a special class of minor field like imps, quasits are only made as servitors by more powerful demons rather than occurring naturally from either birth, the natural transformation of a petitioner, or a spontaneous fluctuation of the Abyss.

tawny raven
#

I thought combions were only devils. Is that not true?

modest badger
#

Cambions in the lore have specifically been children of Succubi. Succubi were demons up to 3e, Devils in 4e, Generic fiends in 5e.

#

In 5e however, Cambions also were made more generic and essentially the term for 'Half-fiends'.

MM 2014:

A cambion is the offspring of a fiend (usually a succubus or incubus) and a humanoid (usually a human).

tawny raven
#

This completely changes everything I thought I knew about Tiefling’s

#

And here I was making one based off a Merrenoloth

#

I did get this information from the 2024 players guide so maybe that’s why the information is different from everything else I’m hearing😅

modest badger
#

It's not that different, but one change from 2014 to 2024 is that '24 allowed for more than infernal tieflings. Abyssal (and cthonic) technically were always possible and exist in older lore too (and prior to '24, 5e had a UA attempting to include abyssal tieflings).
The '14 tieflings were focused on infernal, but that wasn't the only kind to exist in lore.

tawny raven
#

Ohhhh ok I think everything that my misled me was some Cthonic tiefling’s (my favorites) look “cadaverous” like a Merrenoloth

#

Which made me believe that a mortal could just reproduce with a fiend like that🫰

modest badger
#

2e Planescape:

"Part human and part something else, tieflings are the orphans of the planes. They can be described as humans who've been plane-touched. A shadow of knife-edge in their face, a little too much fire in their eyes, a scent of ash in their presence- all these things and more describe a tiefling.

Although implied infernal as teifling= teufel= devil, but they were not limited to infernal origins only.

3.5 Races of Destiny:

Tieflings appear human at a glance, although they all possess one unnatural feature that reveals** their infernal heritage.** At the least, tieflings have a disturbing demeanour or carry a whiff of brimstone about them, but most also possess small horns, red eyes, or needle-sharp teeth. In extreme cases tieflings may have a barbed tail or cloven feet. No two tieflings have the same appearance.
3e was a bit more infernal focused, but examples of demonic tieflings existed although at times specifically named something else (as tieflings were assumed human based), like the elven Fey'ri.

4e, Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms

heirs to an ancient** infernal bloodline **, tieflings have no realms of their own but instead live within human kingdoms and cities. they are descended from human nobles who bargained with dark powers
4e was specifically infernal, also to explain the homogenous look.

5e PHB:

tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus—overlord of the Nine Hells—into their bloodline. Their appearance and their nature are not their fault but the result of an ancient sin, for which they and their children and their children’s children will always be held accountable.

*Could also refer to the Asmodeus adopting all tieflings into his bloodline

Tieflings are derived from human bloodlines, and in the broadest possible sense, they still look human. However, their infernal heritage has left a clear imprint on their appearance.

So definitely favouring infernal throughout.

#

SCAG:

Asmodeus and a coven of warlocks, the toril thirteen, performed a rite wherein the archdevil claimed all tieflings in the world as his own, cursing them to bear the "blood of asmodeus". This act marked all tieflings as descendants of the Lord of the Nine hells, regardless of their true heritage, and changed them into creatures that resembled their supposed progenitor.

tawny raven
#

Seems like there’s some major devil bias here and there haha

jagged apex
lime wagon
#

Hi, does anyone know a powerful dryad or something that could be flavored as such? A warlock player wants one as his patron

#

Anything fey adjacent and related to nature could do it if not

modest badger
#

It also depends upon which setting you're using.

cinder cloud
static smelt
#

Is Unaligned the same as True Neutral?

scarlet sigil
#

No. Unaligned is a creature who can't express any alignment. True neutral is still a stance. Beasts are typically unaligned.

static smelt
#

Perfect

cinder cloud
#

This is a mechanical question, not a lore question

static smelt
#

So in the case of someone no perscribing to the alignment chart would that make them True Neutral?

unkempt merlin
#

They wouldn't be on the alignment chart

static smelt
unkempt merlin
#

Something unaligned would not be on the alignment chart

#

The alignment chart is also both A) not a lore thing and B) not something a character would really be aware of

static smelt
iron saffron
#

Alignment is a game mechanic.

unkempt merlin
#

It quite literally isn't

scarlet sigil
#

It used to be. In 2024 they removed the last traces of the mechanic.

static smelt
iron saffron
#

Alignment is still in 5.24E.

#

Anyway, this is moving out of the scope of this channel.

scarlet sigil
static smelt
# iron saffron Anyway, this is moving out of the scope of this channel.

I still maintain it's a lore thing, regardless of whether it's in current mechanics or not. I'm asking in regards of whether it's within intent or action that defines someone's alignment. Like I'm not saying every case has to be handed to Primus to determine if someone is X alignment, that probably goes to Kelemvor. But I'm asking around if there was a precedent I was missing where you can default

iron saffron
static smelt
#

How so?

cinder cloud
#

These are all mechanical questions about the rules of the game, magic items and stat blocks.

#

Not lore topics

static smelt
#

Okay lemme rephrase this. "In the Forgotten Realms is morality governed by intent or consequence?"

cinder cloud
#

Define governed, intent and consequence

static smelt
# cinder cloud Define governed, intent and consequence

Let's say I'm a paladin of Tyr. I'm on my quest to fight against evil. I'm directed to defeat the evil lord. Except I was tricked by the actual evil person behind it all the court wizard. Because my intent to defeat evil was the goal, does that still keep me in alignment with Tyr who is lawful good. Or have I gone down a different path because of the consequence of these actions.
I'm picking Tyr because accidentally killing someone you weren't supposed to is a very Tyr thing

modest badger
#

Ah, this is one of those tricky ones where lore and mechanics overlap.
Alignment is a lore thing, but how it's expressed mechanically is another matter.
'Unaligned' turns up as a specific 'alignment' in some editions only, which was to represent creatures that couldn't really take a moral stance as Deva mentioned.

#

So there's not really going to be a great answer, because it will depend on how alignment is expressed mechanically in an edition.

iron saffron
#

BECMI = lawful, neutral, chaotic
1E/2E/3E = LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, CE
4E = LG, Good, Unaligned, Evil, CE
5E = LG, LN, LE, NG, N, NE, CG, CN, CE, Unaligned

static smelt
iron saffron
#

Unaligned was introduced in 5E for creatures that cannot take an ethical/moral distinction in its choices, such as non-sentient/non-sapient Constructs and Beasts. Past editions just made them Neutral.

modest badger
#

In some editions a such a creature might be noted to be (true) neutral, unaligned or just have no alignment listed. That'd be the mechanical aspect.
Such as a wolf:
5e- Unaligned
4e- Unaligned
3.5- Always neutral( "Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral. Dogs may be obedient and cats free-spirited, but they do not have the moral capacity to be truly lawful or chaotic.")
2e- Neutral
1e- Neutral

unkempt merlin
cinder cloud
#

Talk to your DM

storm dagger
storm dagger
iron saffron
#

In 1E, alu-fiends were the offspring between a succubus and a male mortal.

modest badger
#

So Cambions are specifically still demon in AD&D, but not exclusively children of succubi (especially as AD&D didn't really do Incubi, and the lore needs the mother to be the mortal in the partnership).

storm dagger
#

Sorry was not trying to be dismissive. Tone doesn’t really come across in text

tawny raven
weary trench
#

I have a question to ask, and it's kind of a combination between lore and Homebrew so I'm not sure if I should ask here, or in homebrew. @_@

feral lintel
#

if its official lore, its here

weary trench
#

Uhh it's kinda both, cuz I'm making a homebrew but I want there to be some lore that's accurate.

jagged apex
#

well we can help with the part that is refferencing existing lore in published material

weary trench
#

I'll post the question, if I need to repost in homebrew just lmk

#

Okay, so if I'm following the people in DM Discussions correctly, Shadowfell is the domain of the ravenqueen, but was created by Shar?

I'm trying to make my own homebrew, but I want there to be like, some facts to it.

So my main bad guy took a powerful stone from the druids, and then found a amulet belonging to a worshipper of Shar in the Shadowfell, she abandoned Lolth to the serve Shar, then merged the power stone and the amulet to make it even more powerful.

Would it make more sense if I made it so the amulet belonged to a worshipper of the ravenqueen? And have her abandon Lolth to serve the raven queen?

She's using the amulet to combine the Shadowfell to the material plain.

jagged apex
#

and shar did not entirely create it, it use to be the plane of shadow until shar modified it

weary trench
#

So the question of "If she's combining the Shadowfell to the material plain, and abandoning Lolth to serve another, who should she serve, Shar or RavenQueen, which one makes more sense?"

Should I ask this in Homebrew?

jagged apex
#

like last i checked, Shar, The Raven Queen, Vecna, and Orcus are known to have their own sort of territories in the shadowfell where they have influence, if i am not mistaken

feral lintel
feral lintel
modest badger
# tawny raven Oh the mother has to be mortal? That’s really interesting!

AD&D was a lot more specific about some of these things, using Liger/Tion logic where the type of offspring could depend on which species the mother/father was.
Ogrillo and Orogs were both ogre/orc in AD&D, but Ogrillo the father was ogre and Orog the father was orc.

This lore has not continued to recent editions (oops wrong paste!)

jagged apex
#

yeah that is part of it but also seperate at the same time

jagged apex
#

though in her 5e incarnation, the raven queen has a sort of indirect, though that may not quite be the right word for it, history with lolth, as one of her 5e origins from mordenkainen's tome of foes suggests that she became a god, or at least tried to, in order to put a stop to the conflict between Corellon and Lolth before they wound up tearing the elven pantheon assunder

#

last i checked they in the new dmg in the lore glossary have leaned more into the mysterious elements of her character such as being mysterious and aloof, her true origins might even be more unknown than asmodeus, which is saying alot if you are familiar with his lore and history over the years and all the origins he has spread about himself, at least in universe to explain the different origins used in various editions

rare gyro
#

Hi! I just got directed here to ask a lore question of mine.

I'm just getting into the Peril in Pinebrook booklet, and I've skipped to the end to the character sheets. I want to put my own name on one of the characters, but before I do, I need to ask:

Is there acultural parallel to Spain, or possibly even Mexico, in the DnD universe? My last name is "Rodriguez" and I'd like to keep it, but I notice most playable character names in DnD seem to be in line with the Germanic language family (Norse, Old English, Deutsch, etc.); I'm wondering if it is really tone-right for me to go and ordain my Spanish surname on a DnD character.

Granted, I've gotten a reminder that it's okay for me to use my name anyway - you guys' positivity makes my day - but I'd still like to know.

#

Or if not a cultural parallel, then at least linguistic, to Spanish or Nahuatl?

sterile breach
iron saffron
#

Maztica is more inspired by the Mayan and Aztecs.

rare gyro
#

That's good enough for me. I'm part Aztec.

tall berry
iron saffron
#

Maztica is the name of the continent that's across the Western Ocean.

iron saffron
cinder cloud
# rare gyro Hi! I just got directed here to ask a lore question of mine. I'm just getting i...

Yeah, a common misunderstanding is that there is a single "DnD universe" as you put it. There are, in fact, an infinite number of worlds in the multiverse. A handful have been officially documented over the last 50 years. But Peril in Pinebrook is setting agnostic (ie it can take place anywhere) so there's no actual lore with which we can respond.

In short, pick any name you want. If you are playing in a specific setting, we can help you further.

jagged apex
#

and in the new dmg, the characters from the dnd cartoon, who if i am not mistaken are originally from earth, have been referenced and are basically still traveling the multiverse, making them also canon to the published continuity too and not just their show from back in the day

iron saffron
#

Well, it's the same names but not necessarily mean they're the same characters.

calm crest
#

Yes, they arrived in the Realm (not to be confused with Toril) from Earth in 1983.

jagged apex
#

well, they are versions of the characters from what i understand, so depends how specific you wanna be about every detail

#

but from what i understand most of their history is the same, if i am not mistaken like originally being from earth

iron saffron
#

Also, there's no fixed time on Earth that Toril is connected to. The Mulhorandi were ancient Egyptians but Elminster and Mordenkainen have visited contemporary Earth.

jagged apex
#

time flows differently at times between settings anyway last i checked, there is a rough approximation but not anything concrete that i am aware of

calm crest
#

As far as I know, nothing contradicts their general history, which would seem to imply that Earth relative to the 5e continuity would still be in the mid-90s, as about a decade has passed for the Heroes of the Realm who went back to Earth.

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Each edition from 1E to 3E were only a few years apart. 4E jumped ahead about 100 years (for some dumb reason).

calm crest
#

And there’s also Gothic Earth, which is set in the 1890s, as well as the medieval France visited in Château d’Amberville, and multiple contemporary Earths visited in both the Advanced multiverse as well as the Basic continuity.

#

Oerth is technically a variant of our Earth along with a few others at various points along the spectrum of more to less magical, including Aerth, Uerth, and Yarth

jagged apex
#

they even get an entry in the lore glossary to quote "The so-called “heroes of the Realm” are a group of young adventurers—Bobby, Diana, Eric, Hank, Presto, and Sheila—who traveled from Earth in the 1980s into a world in the D&D multiverse. Equipped with powerful magic items, they foiled the schemes of foes such as Venger and Tiamat while seeking some means to return home. Eventually, as the heroes’ mastery of adventuring skills increased, they discovered the secrets of traveling between worlds, though they still haven’t found a way home.
The heroes of the Realm weren’t the only kids transported from Earth to the worlds of D&D. Other young adventurers, including Niko the Cleric, are still exploring the vast D&D multiverse." end quote

#

but far as i know we don't know what the present year of earth in the dnd multiverse is, much like we don't technically know the same for the forgotten realms

#

like the latest we know year wise of the forgotten realms is about 1499 DR if you account for Ed greenwood's videos about the setting he made, we don't know if that is necessarily the present date/year

calm crest
#

My math regarding the mid-1990s stems from the HotR reaching the Realm after going on the Dungeons & Dragons ride in 1983. They then spend a while in the Realm (Bobby has a birthday, but not two) and we see other people from Earth pop in a couple episodes, indicating that some time has passed at a pretty comparable rate. We are told that they found their way back to Earth prior to Uni and the Hunt for the Lost Horn, so we can assume that time on Earth passed at the normal rate for them during the years they were on Earth. Bobby appears to be in his late teens or early twenties, while the others look like they are in their mid-twenties. Given that Bobby was 8/9 in the cartoon and the oldest were 16, that seems to correspond to roughly a decade passing on Earth since 1983. Hence mid-90s as the best guess currently available from known lore.

jagged apex
#

yeah there are differences, but they are still a version of those characters and besides, the fact it is referenced, means it happened in the history of the dnd multiverse for the current continuity, meaning there is 0 reason such a thing could happen again with any other world

calm crest
#

It’s always possible that there may be multiple Heroeses of the Realm running around, Robilar and Bilarro style, but that strains credibility more than assuming that anything in the cartoon not currently contradicted in 5e is accurate to the present continuity.

jagged apex
#

true, given some things have happened where extra planar adventuring, which what they could be considered to have been doing, got a bit weird, if you are familiar with the 5e planescape adventure, you know what i am reffering to

calm crest
#

And time travel is certainly part of the D&D cosmology.

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

and back in the days of 2e chronomancy was a proper school of magic that some would specialize in, having more spells than we currently do relating to it in modern continuity

calm crest
jagged apex
#

plus the line of "The heroes of the Realm weren’t the only kids transported from Earth to the worlds of D&D. Other young adventurers, including Niko the Cleric, are still exploring the vast D&D multiverse." is basically the lore telling you, yes, you too could be one of those kids if you want to especially in your own games, is not like we know the exact number of kids that got transported into the dnd multiverse all across time

#

niko was just one used as an example since that adventure's story made use of the heroes of the realm in the 5e continuity

calm crest
#

A journey to the Realm coming soon to an amusement park near you!

iron saffron
#

Well, they retconned to add in Niko to add a cleric into the party. They made Diana into a monk rather than a thief-acrobat.

jagged apex
#

if dnd's lore has taught me anything, it is that even when the multiverse reforms to a familiar state, it is never 100% the same as it was before, which i love they basically poke at in a part of the planescape books

calm crest
#

Well, monk is pretty close to thief-acrobat. Eric would be closer to paladin rather than fighter as a cavalier.

iron saffron
#

The D&D cartoon was essentially a commercial for the 1E Unearthed Arcana book which introduced the barbarian (Bobby), cavalier (Eric), and thief-acrobat (Diana) classes.

calm crest
#

Especially with 5e’24’s less supernatural-coded Focus-based monk.

#

Oh, absolutely. I could go on about how horribly broken the 1e UA barbarian is. I may just do so in #dnd-elder-editions.

minor plume
#

Yo, what is the quadraped dragon born? They're like centaurs or w/e

jagged apex
#

sort of, historically, but they are not called dragonborn nor directly related to them in any way

jagged apex
minor plume
#

Yeah they're like the centaur of the dragons

#

Some of them have dragonborn upper body or w/e

#

Probably why there's no art on them

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

there is art

tall berry
#

If I remember correctly, dracons were introduced in Spelljammer for 2e.

jagged apex
#

not much, but art none the less

#

huh, was not aware of the dracotaur aka Drakkoths

#

seems that in 3e at least they were likely ment to be be a spiritual successor to the dracons, least till 4e sized them down and they seem to have yet to be reintroduced

jagged apex
minor plume
#

Appreciate your input

minor plume
#

I'm trying to find artwork for them, I know Blizzard ended up doing a species like them too

jagged apex
#

well the forgotten realms wiki pages for each have at least 2 pictures each from published materials

#

given it was 2e, one of the ones of the dracon is in black and white, but the other is in color all though not as detailed

#

and the drakkoth are basically the more aggressive take of the same concept

minor plume
teal rock
#

I won't be surprised if there are no answers for this, but can intelligent oozes get drunk?

pallid flower
calm crest
#

Kind of depends on the ooze in question. It’s a pretty broad type with lots of different sorts of oozes.

teal rock
#

Plasmoids for example.

south warren
#

I have a lore question about the dark elves... Not much in the PHB. I'm seeing mixed things online that not all dark elves are Drow... I'd love to hear what the "official" lore here is

#

Bonus points if you can send me to a reliable resource

weary trench
#

I'm creating a homebrew, but I am trying to use real-to-lore facts? I'm asking AI about stuff, I just wanted to be sure of something-- Is "The Tear of Sehanine" A real item?

#

Looking online, I guess it's called "Moontear"?

feral lintel
#

I wouldnt suggest using AI, it can just make shit up

weary trench
#

Which is why im fact checking n_n

south warren
feral lintel
weary trench
feral lintel
#

its on the realms wiki, its official

weary trench
#

awesome thank you

feral lintel
#

although probably not in 5e

teal rock
# south warren I have a lore question about the dark elves... Not much in the PHB. I'm seeing m...

According to the official lore drow are elves that have been driven to the Underdark which is an immense area where several monsters and humanoids live. Drow culture is considered controversial to some people while others appreciate it. This is due to the fact that it is an evil matriarchal society. Drow have their own pantheon so those who have traditional views see the elven gods and their worshippers as enemies.

#

Duergar and deep gnomes are two other playable races that call the Underdark home however only the gnomes are friendly. And even them are extremely cautious and not as cheerful as surface gnomes.

#

Of course I'm only talking about the traditional drow, duergar and deep gnomes. Some of them choose to escape their roots.

cinder cloud
#

While some of that is largely true, the lore of the drow really depends on the setting.

cinder cloud
teal rock
#

Yes, I'm only familiar with the Forgotten Realms setting. Which is the "default" DnD setting.

south warren
# cinder cloud What setting?

Character was the daughter of a priestess and was sent to the surface on a "mission" she recognizes as exile because her mother was jealous of her natural abilities and seeming favor from Lolth.

iron saffron
weary trench
#

Where can I find information/the story/lore about demon Belaphoss's attempt to corrupt the Moontear?

cinder cloud
south warren
# cinder cloud What setting?

(sorry couldn't type fast enough) About to play dragons of stomwreck isle and my background snippet involves dreams about the temple of bahamut so I'm trying to decide how to approach it

iron saffron
#

In FR lore the ancestors of the drow were the the dark elves (Ssri-tel-quessir). The drow were essentially dark elves who were followers of Lolth and got corrupted with demonic blood.

cinder cloud
iron saffron
#

Each setting has a different take on the drow. This is why we often ask "Which setting?"

teal rock
cinder cloud
south warren
teal rock
#

That is why I chose use these "

cinder cloud
weary trench
#

Yes- Looking at that page rn haha- Yes, that guy.

teal rock
weary trench
cinder cloud
weary trench
#

oh pffft ofc

teal rock
cinder cloud
#

There's a brief summary on the wiki article I linked

weary trench
#

coooli thank you

south warren
cinder cloud
sick skiff
#

What would be the exact tint of skin color for dusk elves?

#

It says they have dark skin, but it doesn't specify, always thought something like gray

#

In Rahadin's art he seem more like, pale gray/white

jagged apex
#

there is basically the original and then the 5e one

sharp owl
jagged apex
#

good point, plus the wider used they are across media the more minute differences tend to happen, the drow and their skin tone is one good example i know of, you are better off looking for the average skin tone, like what range is normal if looking for that sort of thing rather than trying to get it down to such a minute detail

jagged apex
grim siren
#

The book describes Rahadin as brown skinned. I think the Dusky elf bit is more a desaturation towards grey

jagged apex
#

plus he lives in ravenloft from what i could find and there is not really proper daylight/sunlight there, so depending how long he has been there, that much like real life could effect the coloration of his skin

grim siren
#

The other dusk elf illustrated in the book is hyper stylized and monochrome so not reliable.

weary trench
#

So- Forgotten Realms, that's sword coast- with Faerune
But then there's Greyhawk, that's like a totally different world?

Does the feywilde, material plane, shadowfell stuff still apply all across the board?

Or does that stuff only fit for the Forgotten Realms.

(not sure if Im asking this right- total newb here)

sharp owl
#

The Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk are both settings

#

That's basically a title for all the adventures set in and around their respective worlds; Toril and Oerth

#

The Sword Coast is a region in Faerun, which itself is a continent on Toril

#

Toril and Oerth are both worlds in the Material Plane, a plane of existence in which most mortals live, and there are many other such worlds; Krynn (Dragonlance), Exandria (Critical Role), Athas (Dark Sun) etc

#

For each world/setting there are a selection of associated other planes such as the Feywild, Shadowfell, etc

#

Which of these planes a setting has, how they connect to the material plane, and if they're shared between settings varies

iron saffron
#

The Forgotten Realms is a campaign setting set in the continent of Faerun, which is on the planet Toril, which is in the Realmspace system in the Material Plane. There are other continents (some are settings in their own rights) on Toril.

Greyhawk is a campaign setting set in the continent of Flanaess on the planet Oerth, in the Greyspace system in the Material Plane.

The Feywild and Shadowfell are echoes of the Material Plane. (Think the Shadowfell like the Upside Down World from Stranger Things). These are some of the Inner Planes, which is connected by the Ethereal Planes.

sharp owl
#

So for example, Exandria, Toril, and Eberron all have fey realms, the Fey Realm, Feywild, and Thelanis respectively

#

They're all similar in some ways, different in others, and don't really connect

#

However, some planes are connected; for example characters have crossed from Exandria to Avernus, the first layer of the Nine Hells. These character can be encountered when travelling to Avernus from Toril

#

It can be a bit confusing at times, especially once you bring in the Astral Plane and spelljamming

weary trench
#

Okay so, Toril and Oerth are planets, and they are in their own "solar system" within the same material plane?

sharp owl
#

Yeah, kinda

weary trench
#

I need it put REAL simple 😂

sharp owl
#

Instead of solar systems, they're called Wildspace systems

weary trench
#

That makes sense-

sharp owl
#

They're like bubbles floating on water; both contain air but it's not the same air, if that makes sense?

weary trench
#

Totally does-

iron saffron
sharp owl
#

You can travel from one bubble (wildspace system) to another via the astral sea

#

You could also travel between them by jumping to another plane (say the Plane of Fire) and then back again: Material Plane >> Plane of Fire >> Material Plane

#

"Material Plane" is like saying "City" as opposed to "Town" or "Countryside"

#

And there are some exceptions, for example Eberron is in a bubble of material plane, except it's in the Deep Ethereal rather than the Astral Sea; it's a bubble but instead of being in a bucket of water with other bubbles, it's over in a glass of cola 😛

iron saffron
# weary trench Okay so, Toril and Oerth are planets, and they are in their own "solar system" w...

You can travel between systems via spelljammers, special ships that sail in the phlogiston (2E Spelljammer) / Astral Sea (5E Spelljammer) with the use of special chairs called spelljamming helms.

In 2E Spelljammer the systems were enclosed by an impenetrable globe called Crystal Spheres. So some systems like Athaspace didn't allow for spelljammers to enter. 5E Spelljammer retconned away Crystal Spheres and the Phlogiston.

weary trench
#

Okay! Thank you both for taking the time to explain all of that to me 🙂

sharp owl
#

S'all good

weary trench
#

So going from one bubble to the other, would be comparable to like, traveling from earth to mars.

So forgotten realms is it's own bubble (setting)
Then Greyhawk is it's own bubble (setting)

And you can travel though space (astral sea) to go from one to another

Where as going to say, shadowfell, would be like traveling to a different paralell universe 🤔

#

am I following?

cinder cloud
#

More like Sol to Alpha Centauri

weary trench
#

so from 1 planetary system to another?

cinder cloud
#

Yep.

weary trench
#

Okay that makes sense.

cinder cloud
#

Like there are other planets in the FR crystal sphere

iron saffron
tall berry
#

Bring back the phlogistan.....

cinder cloud
weary trench
#

VERY expansive!

iron saffron
weary trench
cinder cloud
#

A bit, but with less tentacles

weary trench
#

awesome okay Im glad I understand!
Thank you for explaining

cinder cloud
#

And not actually upside down

iron saffron
cinder cloud
#

Sorry, Old, you are correct I didn't see your message

weary trench
iron saffron
#

Yes, each plane is an universe onto itself.

tall berry
weary trench
#

okay well! Thank you for your time! I'll be back if I have any more silly little questions 🙂 Take care yall

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

It's always done that since 5e started, even before spelljammer

cinder cloud
#

(WotC: "it's a sea so we should sail in it!"
UA PDK vibes

tall berry
storm dagger
tall berry
storm dagger
unkempt merlin
storm dagger
unkempt merlin
#

It's just that as of 5e the wildspace systems don't have a physical boundary (the sphere) anymore

weary trench
#

Do any of you know if there exsists a single map that's good at showing some of this?

storm dagger
#

Most don’t they can be inserted to close them off

weary trench
#

I know there's gotta be stuff in the books, i just dont have them

tall berry
iron saffron
#

The phlogiston was the stuff between crystal spheres.

iron saffron
weary trench
#

Just kinda everything I guess 🤔 the differnt planes, and all that.

storm dagger
iron saffron
weary trench
#

I don't know how to be more specific :x

storm dagger
#

Map of the Astral Plane with Wildspace systems in that preview article

weary trench
unkempt merlin
storm dagger
iron saffron
cinder cloud
# weary trench Just kinda everything I guess 🤔 the differnt planes, and all that.

The current and most generally accepted cosmology model is here: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Wheel_cosmology
This picture is of the material and inner planes: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/1/17/Inner_planes-5e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180207152612
And this picture is a representation of all the planes: https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/forgottenrealms/images/a/a2/Planes-5e.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180207035855

storm dagger
weary trench
#

Spot on guys thank you 🙂

#

opens all of the links

#

yeah! like the great wheel cosmology there we go, That's what Im looking for! Thank you Schm0

iron saffron
#

Ignore the 4E lore...

storm dagger
#

The DMG will be helpful for Cosmology

cinder cloud
#

Oh my... TIL 4e put the Nine Hells in... <checks notes> the astral sea

tall berry
#

Only thing is Spelljammer Academy is no longer available

iron saffron
spare smelt
#

Do moon elves typically wear a lot of the forest type style you see in art where a lot of elves will wear leaves and tree branches, or are moon elves more like a type of English fantasy

#

I assumed it was only wood elves that wore trees as clothing but a lot of the elf art has it

fallow leaf
jagged apex
#

oh wait found it, cited from 3e's races of faerun "Like most elves, moon elves preferred clothing of simple design but exquisite making, using the finest textiles and most beautiful weaving designs available but typically making simple cuts and measurements, finding showy flourishes unnecessary. Moon elven clothing was often flashy in other ways, however, with bright colors popular amongst moon elves who felt comfortably at rest and away from danger. Most moon elves wore their hair in braids or ponytails, decorated with wires or beads. Tattoos were not unheard of amongst moon elves and were frequently worn, though it was not an ingrained part of their culture."

jagged apex
spare smelt
jagged apex
#

so wait are you wanting to know about moon elves or sun elves?

jagged apex
cinder cloud
jagged apex
spare smelt
# jagged apex so wait are you wanting to know about moon elves or sun elves?

This is going to sound stupid but I was looking generally at elves, sun elves seem the best but don’t really interact with humans, so I went with moon elves. Then I was looking around for character inspiration and immediately got disinterested when every elf art was basically just wearing leafs as clothes

jagged apex
jagged apex
jagged apex
spare smelt
#

The one thing I looked at was the magic the gathering cards if that matters, because I wanted to be a stronger elf

jagged apex
#

that is technically a seperate universe, as mtg, even with cross over materials, are seperate multiverses

iron saffron
#

D&D elves aren't the same as elves from other IPs.

jagged apex
#

the only thing they really have in common with other elves is the pointy ears, everything else they tend to have their own thing compared to others

#

especially as the years passed and the lore was fleshed out across multiple settings

cinder cloud
#

And D&D elves differ vastly from setting to setting, individual regions and cultures, and even between small populations

iron saffron
#

Athas elves =/= the rest of D&D elves...

spare smelt
#

I thought MTG was forgotten realms

jagged apex
#

nope, not even the one set moddeled after the setting

spare smelt
#

That makes more sense

jagged apex
#

that was merely an mtg adaptation

#

much like the mtg books are dnd adaptations of their mtg counterparts

iron saffron
#

MtG is a different product than D&D.

jagged apex
#

not all things owned by the same company are part of the same universe, especially since wizards of the coast did not originally own dnd, they got the liscense to it after 2e, basically supporting the IP and making products and lore for 3e onwards

fallow leaf
#

Yeah magic the gathering has its own disconnected 30 years of worldbuilding and cosmology

jagged apex
#

not to mention the nature and ways their respective multiverses function are drastically different

fallow leaf
#

As of current mtg status lore is starting to take a backseat in favor of universes beyond(crossover) content but that’s kind of an entirely different discussion

#

But mtg d&d books are kind of in a weird place where they’re not fully committing on explaining how the world fits in mtg cosmology (because that’s extremely complicated and completely new unrelated lore to all of pre-established d&d stuff) or to just fully saying that the mtg world exists in the same d&d cosmology

#

The most that’s been is a few mentions of planeswalkers and a strixhaven spoiler that uses the weave as an explanation rather than mana colors

jagged apex
#

they are sort of in a weird in between of the two multiverses, more so favoring dnd obviously in terms of terminologies for things like creatures magic, ect...

fallow leaf
#

Yeah one of my friends who was a magic player first and foremost is always a little confused/angry that devils are the lawful ones and demons are the chaotic ones in d&d

jagged apex
#

far as i know the mtg dnd worlds are sperate, as the crossover adventure connecting ravnica and the forgotten realms was written by the mtg team rather than the dnd team, so it's validity is questionable at best

fallow leaf
#

Mtg has the complete opposite connotations

fallow leaf
jagged apex
#

it's just in it's own separate thing as i understand it and i feel kind of makes the most sense to view it as that, at least until an official statement on the topic is given, if it is ever

fallow leaf
#

Yeah I think it is kind of the best course of action for the least effort

#

If wotc ever published a big mtg d&d book with rules on planeswalkers and plane gazetteers I think that’d be a good place to explain magic cosmology to the d&d sphere

jagged apex
#

or even just an article or like i said other sort of official statement, else they are really more so tools and resources for use in one's own games

fallow leaf
#

Which I doubt. I don’t think wotc will do another mtg crossover book since strixhaven was pretty badly received. The most I think we’ll get are like the d&dbeyond monsters eldraine got

iron saffron
#

Strixhaven is listed on DDB as a sourcebook but it's more of adventure with bare minimum setting lore.

fallow leaf
#

Yeah it wanted to be both but ended up having the worst of both worlds

unkempt merlin
#

(That's more a symptom of the dnd book basically coming out before anything for the mtg set did. The dnd book actually introduced a bunch of stuff to the setting)

grim siren
#

The plane shift articles on DMsGuild from James Wyatt are pretty good for adapting a lot of MTG settings. Each one has monsters in it IIRC

#

I know we got Zendikar, Amonkhet, and Innistrad at least from it.

fallow leaf
#

Yeah the plane shifts are interesting but also I feel kind of bad because that means it’s unlikely we’ll get a book on those worlds

#

They’re also just not mechanically designed by the d&d wotc team so they have these quirks

#

Like all the ammonkhet clerics are just phb cleric Frankenstein subclasses. Like zeal is a mix of war light and trickery

fallow leaf
#

The set was January 2021 and strixhaven was q1 2022 iirc

jagged apex
#

i feel this may be deviating a bit from the subject of lore

unkempt merlin
normal warren
iron saffron
#

Intellectual properties.

wide nimbus
#

Are there ways to hide from gods?
The idea I had for my campaign, I realized that there is no way Mystra would not notice a 1 mile wide antimagic field suddenly pop up somewhere, and that some sorcerer or wizard in the middle of that field suddenly gets wildly powerful and not need to memorise spells anymore

sharp owl
#

I assume you're referring to the Forgotten Realms?

calm crest
#

Traditionally, the center of the Outlands served that purpose.

jagged apex
#

alternatively, you could in theory just stay away from holy symbols of the deity, their faithful, avoid saying their names, and avoid any events that would fall under their portfolio, but with mystra being the goddess of magic, she'd be instantly aware anything regarding magic occurs in the world, especially given she and the weave are one in the same especially these days

#

though there is also the fact that in these days most gods by order of lord Ao, don't get directly involved in mortal affairs, meaning you will more likely be faced with one of their chosen rather than have the god directly act against you, baring maybe some sort of special circumstances

wide nimbus
#

I found a homebrew 10th lvl spell on gmbinder, and thought it would set a pretty good premise for a quest

So it needs like 4 casters, with 9th lvl spell slots, some material components like a balor's hand, a solar's hand, every spell scroll, and stuff

Upon the casting of this spell, the target gains an infinite amount of lvl 1, 2, and 3 spell slots, additional 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th spell slots, access to every spell list, and the 1 mile area around the casting location is drained of magic, replicating the effects of an antimagic field

The casters that were not the target has a chance to lost their spell slots permanently

jagged apex
#

well, in published materials you would not even be able to cast such a spell, but your own games you can change things to suit your needs, but normally the first time you could attempt to cast such a spell it would automatically fail

#

but we really only can answer what published materials say on such matters, anything else is outside the topic for this channel, such as homebrew

sharp owl
wide nimbus
#

ah i see

#

thank you

feral lintel
#

Are ther any gods in Greyhawk that represent the arts and pursuit of knowledge?

#

by arts i mean drawing and painting

sharp owl
#

Do you mean specifically and only represent drawing and painting?

#

Or the arts, including those two specific categories?

feral lintel
#

The first If possible, but anything connected works

sharp owl
#

there's no deity for just drawing and painting, but I know there's at least one deity of creative endeavours

#

Can't remember off the top of my head

cinder cloud
# feral lintel Are ther any gods in Greyhawk that represent the arts and pursuit of knowledge?

Art
Lirr: https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Lirr
Corellon (elvish): https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Corellon_Larethian
Meriadar (mongrelfolk): https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Meriadar

Knowledge
Boccob - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Boccob
Lydia (suel) - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Lydia
Belial (archdevil)- https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Belial
Deep Sashelas (elvish) - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Deep_Sashelas
Maanzecorian (illithid) - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Maanzecorian
Tharzidun - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Tharizdun
Zagyg - https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Zagyg

See also:
https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Category:Gods_of_knowledge
https://ghwiki.greyparticle.com/index.php/Category:Gods_of_the_arts

feral lintel
#

Oh, forgot to check these out, but ill look them over. Thank you Schm0!

verbal barn
#

Do all creatures in the forgotten realms have souls, or only the humanoids?

cinder cloud
iron saffron
#

Living sentient creatures.

cinder cloud
#

For the most part, only mortal, sentient creatures have souls.

calm crest
#

Some beings, mostly Fiends and Celestials, essentially are souls, so whether they “have” them is debatable.

verbal barn
#

extra planars also seem to have their soul bound to their body, from what I'm reading there

iron saffron
#

Some celestials and fiends are created from mortal souls, such as lemures and lantern archons. Those outsiders eventually get promoted to become more powerful fiends/celestials.

cinder cloud
#

Such outsiders have a combined soul and body. If the body dies on its plane of origin, its soul merges with the plane. If not, it reforms on the plane of its origin after some time.

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Outsiders don't really have "souls" as they are essentially part of their home plane.

#

Remember that the Outer Planes is the "afterlife" for mortal souls from the Material Plane.

jagged apex
#

and elementals are more so energy beings with physical bodies being more like vehicles made of the corresponding element

calm crest
#

Similar deal with Elementals, most of which are an extension of their plane of origin. The difference is that they aren’t made from mortal souls.

jagged apex
#

well the funny thing is, like schm0 linked earlier, the term of a "soul" is vauge and multifaceted in the game's history in universe and out

iron saffron
#

1E made a distinction between souls and spirits. Elves had the latter because they reincarnated instead of going into the afterlife in Arborea.

jagged apex
#

but like a soul as we tend to think of it, any sentient living being would have one, and life on other planes life is fundamentally different from what we on the prime material plane know

calm crest
#

Or at very least orcish culture didn’t go as much into detail about reïncarnation.

iron saffron
#

That I don't recall.

jagged apex
#

and these sort of levels of distinction aren't to unique to the forgotten realms, this often tends to apply to other settings across the dnd multiverse, save self contained cosmology such as eberron sometimes, but even then to my knowledge the concept of what a soul is, remains as it is in other settings in the wider dnd muliverse

#

usually if a creature is devoid of a soul, something in it's lore or creation, like with some undead, will say such or if it is a construct without sentience or some elemental being bound to it

#

one of the reasons why at least in 5e warforged are not considered constructs is cuz they actually have their own souls and free will

jagged apex
#

just to clarify, am not disagreeing with your statement, but expanding apon it or at least attempting to

tawny raven
#

Are Tiefling’s ever born in hell or the abyss? Or are they only ever born in the material plane? (I hope I got my terminology correct)

iron saffron
#

Sure. When tieflings where first introduced in 2E Planescape there were Outsider creature type. They were the descendants of mortals and fiends.

#

PC tieflings are assumed to be mortals from the Material Plane.

storm dagger
jagged apex
iron saffron
#

2E Planescape had introduced "planetouched" for creatures not native to the Outer Planes but had ties to the Material Plane, such as aasimar, tieflings, and genasi.

storm dagger
storm dagger
#

When fighting humanoid-type creatures of the “giant class”, listed hereafter, rangers add 1 hit point for each level of experience they have attained to the points of damage scored when they hit in melee combat. Giant class creatures are: bugbears, ettins, giants, gnolls, goblins, hobgoblins, kobolds, ogres, ogre magi, orcs, and trolls. Example: a 5th level ranger hits a bugbear in melee combat, and the damage done to the opponent will be according to the ranger’s weapon type, modified by strength, and +5 (for his or her experience level) because the opponent isa bugbear — a “giant class” humanoid

teal rock
#

What is a nahual? I can find any info on this creature I wanted to use.

feral lintel
#

Some sort of demon

teal rock
#

Is there no other info on it?

feral lintel
#

Oh wait, its an adventure monster

teal rock
#

Is it like a named demon?

storm dagger
#

Looking it up

feral lintel
#

||its from Tales from the Yawning Portal, a fiendish doppelganger||

#

Spoilers for Tales

storm dagger
#

I was thinking of another minor demon I saw mentioned

#

Nashrou from the 3.5 monster manual 4

feral lintel
#

If i were to remove DnD, all i get is a Native American monster of the same name

#

In Mesoamerican folk religion, a nagual (pronounced [na'wal]) or nahual (both from the Nahuatl word nāhualli [naˈwaːlːi]) is a human being who has the power to shapeshift into their tonal animal counterpart.

teal rock
#

I kinda want to avoid spoilers even though I'm not currently playing that adventure. From the website I'm using it seems that it is indeed some sort of named creature.

storm dagger
#

It’s basically a fiend dopleganger

feral lintel
#

-# oi, i put spoilers for a reason

#

befitting name tho

storm dagger
#

Honestly If I were to use a shapeshifter demon I would use the maurezhi

iron saffron
# teal rock Is it like a named demon?

Nahual is a creature from Mesoamerican folklore. The one mentioned in The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan is just a name without a true statblock (both in the original 1E adventure and the 5E conversion).

#

When I ran it I had to homebrew it to make it fit more towards the folklore version than just using a boring doppelganger.

abstract burrow
#

HOW DOSE MAGNETISM WORK WITH MAGIC WITHIN DND LORE

iron saffron
#

Please turn off your Capslock key.

abstract burrow
#

i was gonna say that

#

mb

#

like is there any weird interactions or anything that happens?? are there ways magic can effect and changes magnetic fields or maybe something of the sort?

iron saffron
#

D&D isn't a physics simulator.

#

As far as I know there aren't any spells or other magic that affects magnetism.

jagged apex
remote star
#

Does The Beholder Great Mother fall under She’baz?

remote star
#

Also, is Ust Natha under or near Port Zazesspur? It isn’t clear where exactly Ust Natha is on the Underdark map. Just “Northwestern Old Shanatar”

cinder cloud
cinder cloud
remote star
#

So there’s some wiggle room on both. For the great mother. She is the mother of all beholders. Which are aberrations. Meanwhile She’baz is the mother of ALL aberrations. (Writing this I realize this is someone’s homebrew BBEG and not an official character.) and for Ust Natha I guess it’s just kinda up for interpretation. You’d think as important as Ust Natha is for Drows they’d depict it on a map somewhere.

remote star
cinder cloud
#

I wrapped up my homebrew campaign

versed hare
calm crest
#

And I know older editions specified whether magnetism worked on certain planes. Astral, no, but the Demiplane of Electromagnetism, yes.

#

Even back in 2e, the Demiplane of Electromagnetism was a vestigial dying plane being absorbed by the Quasiëlemental Plane of Lightning.

rigid latch
#

I’ve started reading the 3rd edition campaign setting and it is fascinating stuff.

5e doesnt have campaign setting books, as best as i can tell.
(When checking the advertisement for the sword coast adverting guide on dndbeyond, the entire focus seems to be classes, subclasses, spells, etc. and that is boring. I want the setting!)

So my question is this: does anyone know of some good resources that detail how the setting changed from 3rd to 4th and 5th edition?

pallid flower
tawny raven
#

Fiend question of the day! Are Quasit’s on the same level of intelligence as a human, elf etc. or are they more animalistic in their behaviors? I see that they have a seven in intelligence, but I have interpreted them to almost have like behaviors..

feral lintel
#

theyre simpler

#

When not doing the bidding of a greater evil, quasits might entertain themselves with minor acts of malicious mischief, such as curdling milk or plotting wicked schemes of their own.[1][8] They were not particularly smart, but their small size was not to be mistaken for an equally small mind. Quasits could rival the average human in brainpower, and normally possessed a deep cunning able to compensate for their lack of intellect. The small fiends excelled at deception, the words they spoke and their actual meaning rarely being the same thing.

rigid latch
feral lintel
#

theyre being more setting agnostic with lore

#

and now are mostly saying to the DM to create their own worlds that fit their needs

rigid latch
#

Yeah my motivation is getting more insight into tyranny of dragons.

feral lintel
#

ToD is an adventure module