#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 39 of 1

jagged apex
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but the way the outer planes work, seems like arugably the layers being finite would make less sense and them being inifinite at least makes equal sense and offers more room for what ever one may wish to add at their own table's version

iron saffron
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Each plane (and their layers, if any) is different is what I was trying to say.

jagged apex
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well in 5e the only planes even described as finite in scale has been the tripple realm, aka graz'zt territory in the abyss

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heck, never even heard anyone mention them being finite in scale in past editions until now

iron saffron
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Azzagrat is listed as "finite" in the 3.5E Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss.

jagged apex
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yeah, literally is the only layer of the abyss i have ever heard consistently described as finite in scale, or even finite in scale at all out of a layer of the abyss, and it being so do to a specific reason

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heck, closest thing i could find in 5e is the planes by default being compared to entire dimensions, also if the planes are infinite in scale, i see no reason the layers of it would not also be able to be infinite, unless specifically noted as being finite

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is just from what i have both read and heard, there seems more stuff supporting the default for these metaphysical planes to also be infinite in scale unless specified otherwise, cuz else it would make less sense why the draw back of combing his 3 layers into one location was that it made those layers finite in scale, so to me it just makes most sense based on what i know to be carried over from past editions, again literally never heard any other layers of the abyss referred to as finite until today, and seems like if it was a thing i'd have seen or heard it at least once before, granted i accept i could be wrong, but at best i feel that 3.5e lore you are mentioning of many of them being listed as finite, is only for 3.5e, as to my knowledge they were infinite in basically any other edition, azzagrat being one of the few exceptions

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plus from my understanding you have to use portals to move from one layer to another, i don't see why that would be needed if they were finite in scale

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plus would make sense why travel on foot is next to impossible in the likes of avernus

iron saffron
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Thanatos, Orcus' layer (layer 113), is finite.

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Demogorgon's layer, The Gaping Maw (layer 88), is finite.

jagged apex
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in 5e, neither have anything that marks their layers as finite, is at least left vauge to where it very much could be infinite

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quote dmg 5e "The Gaping Maw. Demogorgon’s layer in the Abyss is a vast wilderness of brutality and horror known as the Gaping Maw, where even powerful demons are overcome by fear. Reflecting Demogorgon’s dual nature, the Gaping Maw consists of a massive primeval continent covered in dense jungle, surrounded by a seemingly endless expanse of ocean and brine flats. The Prince of Demons rules his layer from two serpentine towers, which emerge from a turbid sea. Each tower is topped with an enormous fanged skull. The spires constitute the fortress of Abysm, where few creatures can venture without their minds being crushed.

Thanatos. If Orcus had his way, all planes would resemble his dead realm of Thanatos, and all creatures would become undead under his control. Under its black sky, Thanatos is a land of bleak mountains, barren moors, ruined cities, and forests of twisted black trees. Tombs, mausoleums, gravestones, and sarcophagi litter the landscape. Undead swarm across the plane, bursting from their tombs and graves to tear apart any creatures foolish enough to journey here. Orcus rules Thanatos from a vast palace known as Everlost, crafted of obsidian and bone. Set within a howling wasteland called Oblivion’s End, the palace is surrounded by tombs and burial sites dug into the sheer slopes of narrow valleys, creating a tiered necropolis."

iron saffron
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This is why you often need to go back to earlier editions for more detailed lore because 5E is very lacking in many areas.

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Just because 5E doesn't mention specifics doesn't mean it nullifies the stuff found in earlier editions' lore on a particular subject.

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5E tends to spend a paragraph or two on something and that's it...

jagged apex
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so i guess in 5e is in most cases ambiguous, only one that makes a clear mention is the endless maze, even the demon webpits are simply described as immense

iron saffron
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5E moved away from DM-centric lore splatbooks that were prevantlant in 2E and 3E.

jagged apex
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i think if the scale was important to those "important layers" as it calls them, it would have been mentioned or at lease give a clearer sense of scale

iron saffron
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As I mentioned [above](#dnd-lore message), The Endless Maze and the Demonweb are two of the few Abyssal layers that are known to be truly infinite.

jagged apex
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either way, i just have seen consistently more evidence that in 5e unless specified, they tend to be infinite in scale

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well in 5e, the demonweb pits are not confirmed infinite, just immense

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though i guess it could be implied with the bottomless dungeon underneath it mentions

iron saffron
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We're going in circles as I'm quoting 3E that lists not all layers of the Abyss are infinite (the Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss only go into detail about a dozen layers while the others are listed but don't mention if they're finite or infinite)

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Dude, I just quoted you that the Demonweb is infinite... (page 122 of the Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss)

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I own both Fiendish Codex books...

jagged apex
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all i know is, that even when talking about older editions outside of azzagrat, you are the only one i have ever heard/read say that any of those layers were finite, and i have even read those books you are referencing, but i will admit was not paying attention for such details when i did, as again consistently heard and read not even being implied to be finite

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my point was more so that it makes does not seem more sensible for the layers of a plane infinite in scale to be finite, in reference to born to frag's logic here #dnd-lore message

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plus with azzagrat as an example and how the dmg states "The layers of the Abyss are defined by the demon lords who rule them" so they easily could in theory change from infinite to finite on a whim based on the will of the demonlord that rules it

iron saffron
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That's because I cite 2E and 3E more often because I find there are more lore books on various D&D settings than 5E.

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Anyway, I'm going to stop here because we're going in circles.

jagged apex
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as since it does not specify what they definite about it, it implies that things like dimensions and scale is on the table, but with the likes of Fraz-Urb’luu, it can be a bit of a power issue if one can't effect the whole layer

jagged apex
iron saffron
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Again, I did say that each Abyssal layer is different. You need to look at each specific one to see if they're infinite or not.

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Yes.

eager bay
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warforged are immortal right?

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It says they're immune to aging effects

unkempt merlin
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no

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the age limit of warforged is uknown, but being immune to magical aging doesn't mean immortal

eager bay
unkempt merlin
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like I said, the answer is unknown

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the oldest warforged are only 30

eager bay
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what powers warforged?

crude blaze
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Great question

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Pretty sure it's one of the many mysteries that Baker left open-ended for the purposes of being filled in by each individual DM and their campaign

spark haven
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Yeah, that's kind of one of the explicit open questions

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How do they work? How are they made?

crude blaze
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There are plenty of ideas, many of which Baker contributed himself, but he explicitly left it open-ended so it'll likely never have an exact answer.

spark haven
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I mean, I assume the answer broadly boils down to "magic"

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but the devil's in the details

eager bay
crude blaze
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Can't name any off the top of my head. I recommend checking out Baker's blog to see what ideas he's played with, or maybe checking out the Eberron server.

jagged apex
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last i checked warforged are powered by their souls, like other humanoids

pine reef
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If Demogorgon supposedly has hordes of millions of demons how he didn't achieve divinity if demons are valid worshippers?

iron saffron
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They need mortal worshippers.

pine reef
iron saffron
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That's why demon lords have cultists.

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Demons aren't mortals.

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Angels don't count towards worshippers of good-aligned gods for the same reason.

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They're just servants of the deities/fiends.

pine reef
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Oh, I didn't know that. So -only- mortals exclusively work for the purpose of worship?

serene crater
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I've got a question as I've been thinking how to spice up my bbegs that delves into lore. I figured as my players are slowly building an army to fight back against the bbegs (a group dedicated to Asmodeus and attempting to bring the nine hells to FR known as the Dark Council) and so far they've taken most of the main settlements (Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter etc) and I wanted to ask if there would be any factions who wouldn't be opposed to siding with the Council in conquest? (the only big faction I could think off hand is the Red Wizards, mainly the Ashmodai sect). If this is something for #dm-discussion I'll move it over.

spark haven
craggy crown
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I have a lore question—what did the other gods (not Mystryl) think of Karsus’s attempted ascension?

jagged apex
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unclear, but given that supposedly in the brief time he was a god lord Ao put extra salt on the wounds by giving him the portfolio of hubris, likely not positively

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else to my knowledge, ther other gods are not even mentioned, let alone their views of the event, in relation to karsus' folly

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but from how i know the spell to work in the lore, they likely would not be happy with it, do to the majority of the god's behaviors and views of themselves at the time, even though the effects were from what i understand temporary, but unfortunately, he picked mystryl as the target for the spell, aka the one that was laterally the only wrong one to pick, as supposedly he would have achieved his goal and have enough power to end the war, but it would not have caused the near destruction of the weave and lead to the catastrophe that it did, had he picked any other god but her

serene goblet
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Not sure if it’s a lore question more than gameplay, does anybody know of any “villains” or possible BBGs that are former or summoned though text/books/chants etc

modest badger
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You can summon quite a few planar beings, including even Archfiends and demon queens/princes. Although that is notably quite hard to do and often requires knowing their true name.

serene goblet
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I was thinking what if someone “accidentally” summons them from reading a text from an old lost book or saying a chant

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But I’m guessing that can be hard

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I was thinking a lich first, sealed away or something but not sure how that would fully work out

modest badger
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#dm-discussion might be able to help for coming up with ideas on how players might accidently, through their quest and actions, unleash an evil they need to then stop. I think there might even be existing modules with similar ideas, but can't recall any off the top of my head right now.

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Things like the Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun and such, where the only way to get the sweet, sweet loot was to perform a ritual of worship which y'know. Could have consequences.

cinder folio
pine reef
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Can neutral evil beings exist in the Abyss or will the Abyss change them into chaotic evil eventually?

modest badger
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There is an optional rule in the DMG, p. 62 that will eventually corrupt non-evil beings who stay too long in the Abyss.

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It might inflict flaws (like ideals, bonds and flaws) or eventually change your alignment to evil, which can be reversed using a dispel good and evil spell.

pine reef
modest badger
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Yeah, weirdly doesn't care about the Law axis. Just if you're non-evil, and will eventually make you CE.

pine reef
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Will a corrupted Deva become a Demon? Or retain their celestial appearance like Zariel but instead have demonic traits with it?

modest badger
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The alignment change happens regardless to the failed save

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But it is an optional rule, so hard to say how it's meant to actually apply to celestial beings invading/trapped in the Abyss

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And that usually the alignment change of a planar being is meant to be a bigger deal.

pine reef
sharp owl
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For a mortal being, alignment is a trait, like being kind or hotheaded or creative

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For planar beings, alignment is more of a fundamental property, like the matter they're made up of

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A planar being changing their alignment is more like you changing your blood type than your attitude on things

pine reef
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So the alignment change would come with physical changes?

sharp owl
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No, that's not what I'm saying

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I'm saying that alignment is a more fundamental part of being from the higher and lower planes

pine reef
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So what would happen to say a Deva that spent too much time in the Abyss and gets corrupted and its alignment changes? What will this fundamental change bring/manifest both physically/psychologically?

sharp owl
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Depends on the Deva

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I can think of at least one Deva in a published adventure that just becomes a tyranical depot

pine reef
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What was the name?

sharp owl
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I don't recall

crude blaze
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Yeah, I don’t think there’s a single answer. Without getting into spoilers, there are a handful of angels that are evil, but are still fundamentally angels.

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A lot of it also comes down to the fact that they’re “evil” because their goals are antagonistic to the party.

pine reef
sharp owl
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Some creatures undergo physical changes, such as Zariel when she fell
Others stay pretty much the same, they're just evil

sharp owl
spark haven
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Extra-planar beings are complicated. They're ostensibly "extensions" of their plane of origin, but they're also fully sentient creatures (mostly)

sharp owl
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It's not a matter of your preference

crude blaze
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We have spoiler channels

pine reef
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Aha. Ping me in the spoiler channel please with the answer. 🙂

spark haven
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So like, yes, they have some "innate" tendencies but they also make fully conscious choices about how they behave and respond to things

modest badger
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Alignment in the Multiverse (PHB):

Alignment is an essential part of the nature of celestials and fiends. Both types of creatures are associated with metaphysical planes of existence—specifically the Outer Planes—that embody certain alignments. For example, most devils hail from the Nine Hells, a plane of lawful evil. A devil does not choose to be lawful evil or tend toward lawful evil, but rather it is lawful evil in its essence. If it somehow ceases to be lawful evil, it changes into something new— a transformation worthy of legend.

But see also:

Magical creatures that have a strong moral inclination (angels, demons, devils, undead, and the like) have an alignment preceded by the word “Typically.” For example, a demon’s stat block says “Typically Chaotic Evil,” since it is typical for a D&D demon to be chaotic evil. That one word—“typically”—reminds the DM that the alignment is a narrative suggestion; it isn’t an existential absolute. The holy can fall, and the fiendish can rise. Members of certain organizations—charitable knighthoods or diabolical cults, for example—also sometimes get the “Typically” treatment.
-Sage Advice: Creature Evolutions

crude blaze
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Alignment is complicated

sharp owl
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Alignment Status: It's Complicated

modest badger
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I believe the 2024 PHB will likely have a different take on alignment in the multiverse, as something that might be stronger in inclination in planar beings, but that free will still has a say in their morality.

crude blaze
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Maybe they’ll emphasize that alignment is more significant in a setting like Planescape

iron saffron
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You'll probably meet more fallen angels than risen fiends because the latter are probably killed by their brethen (or in the Blood War) before they can escape the Lower Planes.

sharp owl
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Yeah, the structure seems to be "Typically X" for planar and extranormal beings such as dragons, any alignment for mortal beings, unaligned for beasts and beast-adjacent creatures, and explicit alignment for named characters

modest badger
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Still I feel like the optional rules of the PHB were more ment to address player characters, and not so much dealing with planar beings eventually being corrupted- but could well be. Might explain why waging war is dangerous when spending too long in each others territories could fundamentally change you.

iron saffron
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Planescape is mostly about the Outer Planes, where each plane corresponds wiith the spectrum of the nine core alignments...

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However, you can find creatures of a different alignment living in a "fixed alignment" Outer Plane, such as the typically LN githzerai in the CN Plane of Limbo.

eager bay
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what are potential power sources for warforged an autognomes?

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like, are there any lore given examples?

magic jackal
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The internal components used in an autognome’s manufacture can vary wildly; one autognome might have an actual beating heart in its chest cavity, while another might be powered by stardust or intricate clockwork gears.

unkempt merlin
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Warforged don't have a "power source" anymore than a human does iirc

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While autognomes have varying things yea

crude blaze
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Yeah, Warforged have souls. It’s just where those souls came from that’s in question

iron saffron
eager bay
magic jackal
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Warforged are humanoid they have souls and their power seems to come from basically artificial internal mechanisms that function nearly identically to humanoid mechanisms, they have blood and muscle substitutes that are specifically mentioned in lore.

unkempt merlin
eager bay
unkempt merlin
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Because they don't?

magic jackal
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Magic.

crude blaze
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They’re built different

eager bay
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Also, does that mean an autognome could be solar powered?

magic jackal
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Sure

unkempt merlin
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If you want

crude blaze
# crude blaze They’re built different

In-lore, they’re designed to be the ultimate soldiers. Beings that don’t need sleep (though they still need rest), don’t need to eat (saving on resources), etc.

eager bay
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thanks for the help this time though

crude blaze
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We assumed you were partaking in the conversation and didn’t require a ping

eager bay
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I wish there was an optional role where you give people permission to ping you in convos

magic jackal
# eager bay I wish there was an optional role where you give people permission to ping you i...

As I understand them, the default assumptions are that pings are acceptable until stated otherwise, or stated in your name/role I believe.

Also if you are participating in a conversation people don't usually ping because they assume you're paying attention to it.

It can't be expected that if you vanish from a conversation people will ping you to bring you back in/notify you of some development in the conversation.

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Anywhomst I have a lore question, I recall that the Netheril Empire "Fell" after Karsus's folly, but is there any specific duration of how long it took for it to actually fully collapse, and since not everyone died and the lingering remnants of Netheril survived and splintered and people descended from them lived on in Faerûn and integrated into other cultures there, how long did that take?

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And also related to that, how was that affected by the issue of the Enclave of Thultanthar? ^

quartz cradle
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my understanding (entirely from Baldur's Gate 3, so take it with a grain of salt) is that it was a literal fall from the sky that physically destroyed most of it and killed the majority of inhabitants, so like...the actual full collapse of the empire would've been pretty instantaneous, right? since there would be very few survivors, and they'd presumably be injured or weakened, and all they could do was salvage whatever they could and crawl out of the wreckage and go start a new life elsewhere. then spreading those lingering remnants of Netheril as you mentioned, I imagine would just be a gradual process of a few lifetimes as the survivors spread out and integrate into other cultures wherever they can.

magic jackal
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Yeah BG3 kinda simplifies it a bit

quartz cradle
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in that case, don't mind me 🙈

strange rose
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I mean iirc she is right, the flying cities (or at least most of them?) did fall and thousands of people would have died instantly

magic jackal
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Yeah she's mostly right, that's not really the question though, not every city died out instantaneously, the Reincarnated Mystra was able to stop the fall of some cities, and iirc the entire empire wasn't contained in just the flying cities.

quartz cradle
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per the forgotten realms wiki:

High Netheril was ruined in a matter of hours, while Low Netheril experienced a long, agonizing decline by the aberrant Phaerimm.[8] The enclave of Thultanthar was transported to the Shadowfell, where it remained for 1,700 years.

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sorry I'm probably not helping, hopefully someone else knows more

magic jackal
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Yeah I guess what I'm getting at is more details about the "long decline" and the integration into other cultures and civilizations in Faerûn.

quartz cradle
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there's also a section on this page about Survivor States, idk if you've read it

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I think sometimes the lore is just frustratingly vague about details :')

strange rose
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looks like it took several hundred years for them to be absorbed in the surrounding cultures

quartz cradle
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I've got a somewhat complicated question. So, Corellon and his Seldarine are fey, right? Hence why elves have fey ancestry. And then we've got archfey, who aren't elves and didn't come from Corellon (right?), but in theory they should be comparable to him, right? But Corellon and the Seldarine are more powerful than archfey. Is that only because they have worshippers? Other than having worshippers, what exactly is the difference between, say, Sehanine Moonbow and Titania of the Summer Court?

strange rose
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Corellon and the Seldarine are typically described as fey themselves. Corellon created the elves, who initially lived in the Feywild/Faerie, but the Seldarine are gods, not fey.

jagged apex
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fey in the way they think and act compared to other gods

strange rose
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There are fey that live in Arvandor, so there's certainly a connection

jagged apex
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and elves have it because they descend from fey, at least in forgotten realms the original primordial elves being akin to angels as they were born from corellon's blood, and even with divine blood, that dilutes over time, thus why they are not pure fey but still have a bit of that connection in their blood

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but to my knowledge, all if not most of the seldarine, especially corellon are gods first and foremost

strange rose
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If the rest of the Seldarine were originally elves born from Corellon's blood (not a sure thing, there are conflicting stories), and the original elves were fey, then it follows that the rest of the Seldarine are technically fey who ascended to godhood. The same cannot necessarily be said of Corellon, though. He's just a greater deity, and has been going all the way back as far as we know.

jagged apex
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it varies from what i recall, some were already in existance but in some tales they were just some of the first and most powerful of those primordial elves

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but those born from his blood were effectively more or less mini corellon like beings, and were at the lowest at least comparable to angels from what i am aware and can recall

iron saffron
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The eladrin of older editions were 1) celestial fey, similar to angels or 2) the Feywild ancestors of the Material Plane mortal elves.

jagged apex
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as outside of a specific edition or version, just "eladrin" seems to be used more so as an umbrella term these days, at least in regards to the forgotten realms wiki which contains info of multiple editions for what that may be worth https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eladrin

strange rose
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I have an eladrin character, so I was attempting to wrap my brain around all these distinctions earlier this week

jagged apex
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that is why i like to keep the eladrin general page bookmarked, makes it easier to find the specific kind of eladrin i am looking to read up on from there

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as i doubt we have seen the last addition to the eladrin family/term

strange rose
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damn, I forgot about the LeShay, pinnacle of the third edition cycle of creating the "coolest, most bad-ass type of elf of all time"

jagged apex
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from what i recall, they are elf esc, not necessarily considered elves proper, could be wrong though

strange rose
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"elf-like fey" yeah

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but they're made for people who like to play elves, but want to be the MOST elf

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(so, me when I played 3.5e)

quartz cradle
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I'm basing my knowledge from Mordekeinan's Tome of Foes (which I know is considered to be out of date), but it does say that the primal elves descended from Corellon are "fey creatures" which is why I assumed he was specifically a fey deity (I feel like I've read that before somewhere, or maybe it's just that he's fey-like??)

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but yeah then there's eladrin and their subraces making things even more confusing

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I figure it goes Seldarine --> some ancient elves were permitted to stay in Arvandor/Arborea and became celestial eladrin --> the rest moved on to the feywild, where some stayed and became fey eladrin and the rest moved to the material plane

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but idk if that's exactly right

iron saffron
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That's about right.

quartz cradle
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okay, cool.

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I'm still not sure where/how archfey fit in though. I know they're a separate thing, but they are similar aren't they? do we know anything about the origin of archfey (Titania etc), or are they just sort of shrouded in mystery?

strange rose
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the thing is, afaik Corellon and the Seldarine have little connection to the fey courts and the feywild. So I'm not sure I'd call them fey

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archfey are to fey as demon lords/archdevils are to demons/devils

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just, extremely powerful rulers. But not divine, really

iron saffron
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Archfey are bascially powerful unique fey. They're not elves.

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Eladrin/elves can be fey.
Not all fey are elves.

quartz cradle
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the forgotten realms wiki says that Titania's avatar looks like a celestial eladrin, which might be where my confusion stems from

iron saffron
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Titania is a greater deity. Yes, she physically appears to be elvish but she's not an elf.

quartz cradle
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does anyone know of a sourcebook or site (aside from the forgotten realms wiki which I've already scoured) that has more fey/archfey lore? I feel like there's really not much that I've found, besides that there are the Seelie/Unseelie courts with Titania & Oberon etc vs. the Queen of Air & Darkness, but other than those pretty basic details I feel like I don't know very much else. which is a shame because it's the part of the lore that I'm most interested in :')

iron saffron
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Remember that gods can make their avatars look whatever they want. Bahamut can make his avatars look like an old human man, for example.

quartz cradle
iron saffron
modest badger
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'Celestial eladrin' in FR lore were also not elves in prior editions.
Eladrin is a confusing term in D&D. 2e-3e Eladrin are celestials and quite fey like. 4e Eladrin is another term for high elf. 5e eladrin can be fey elves or humanoid elves.

iron saffron
strange rose
quartz cradle
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are worshippers what make a deity? like, if an archfey or archdevil accumulated a lot of worshippers, could they rise to divinity?

strange rose
iron saffron
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The Queen of Air and Darkness of the Unseelie Court is an Intermediate Deity.

modest badger
iron saffron
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(Remember that the Seelie and Unseelie Courts stats for the fey gods are just from 2E. The Monster Mythology book had temporarily made some of the demon lords lesser gods but that was retconned soon afterwards reverting them back to just plain demon lords).

modest badger
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They could- Eladrin were maybe 'distantly related to elves' and as inhabitants of arborea they might have interactions with the Seldarine, but in this particular discussion it's worth noting that 'Celestial' Eladrin (as called on the wiki) refers to the 2e-3e Celestials of Arborea who only looked vaguely like elves, but were not elves at the time.

iron saffron
quartz cradle
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like homo sapiens and neanderthals

iron saffron
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Again, think of the "celestial eladrin" more akin to celestial angels who look human but aren't human.

modest badger
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Went into this a bit before. there is a connection, but it's heavily dependent on edition:

2e Eladrin was a collective term for natives to Arborea: Bralani, course, noviere, shiere, and Firre, ghaele, tulani (latter three being 'greater' eladrin). And while they got along with the Elven (and Greek!) pantheon, they actually served their own Queen of Stars. They weren't described as fey or celestial, but being natives of Arborea made them 'good' outsiders (MC Ap.ii Planescape, 1995), the same in 3.5 (MM 3.5, 2003) .

The connection to elves and fey came in one 2e book 'Warriors of Heaven' (1999), which actually made it clear elves and eladrin were distinct:

Eladrins are in fact members of a separate species; they are only distantly related to elves. -p.7

"Some believe elves who age beyond their mortal lifespans become eladrins in the elven equivalent of the afterlife. Others have suggested that the spirits of slain chaotic good elves reappear in Arborea as newly formed eladrins. The Eladrins themselves are silent about the issue, but infact neither of these suspistions are true. Though some of these faerie beings could pass for elves, and the race as a whole is on good terms with the elven pantheon, eladrins are born on Arborea to eladrin parents, not created from mortal beings. -p.57
(Also they were a playable race even back then in Warriors of Heaven)
The above 'faerie beings' is where the wiki got it's 'fey celestials' idea from. Honestly I'd argue that's a misleading description- they are not fey and were not classified as fey in 2e or 3e. But then again 2e didn't do strict creature types, so 'faerie' as a loose descriptor would be similar to calling them 'fey'- not as a creature type, but just an adjective.
These are what the wiki refer to as 'Celestial' eladrin because they are celestials as good planar outsiders. But not fey. Note that none of the sources for that page are younger than 2008.

quartz cradle
#

whew.

#

they really should've just used a different word for feywild elves if eladrin means something different.

modest badger
#

Blame that on 4e.

iron saffron
#

4E had "deva" as a playable race instead of using aasimar (who have been around since 2E Planescape).

modest badger
#

(although Feywild as we have now is also 4e, and that is pretty cool)

iron saffron
#

Shadowfell was a 4E thing too, no?

modest badger
#

Yep

jagged apex
drowsy wraith
#

Tell me stuff about the GIthzerai? How do they differ from Githyanki? What is their general disposition towards non-gith?

magic jackal
storm dagger
drowsy wraith
#

are they still evil though?

crude blaze
#

Often times, no more or less than any other people, like humans and elves

drowsy wraith
#

Tryna design a one-shot where a githyanki creche and githzerai creche must work together to disrupt a mindflayer/deep dragon scheme, so I'm just looking for fun story ideas tbh

magic jackal
#

There's way too much to teach, you can probably teach yourself from the Wiki pages.

crude blaze
magic jackal
#

Creches are a Githyanki thing, not a Githzerai thing.

crude blaze
#

I think Rrakhma?

magic jackal
#

The Githyanki need Creches in other planes and worlds (which comes from a French Word that means Nursery) because they can't reproduce and develop in the Astral Plane where they're native to, because most Biological Processes are halted within the Astral Plane, including aging, the Githzerai live in Limbo, and live effectively normal lifespans, there's no halting of biological function within Limbo, and they don't have to set up extraplanar nurseries in order to hatch and raise children.

crude blaze
#

Nope, cuz they play members of Sha’sal Khou, which is a faction of gith who put aside their different philosophies to tackle the real threat.

magic jackal
#

Oh, you're right

#

Yeah I would recommend Rrakhma

jagged apex
jagged apex
storm dagger
heady mulch
#

lore question for locations in wild beyond the witchlight, im wanting to add more quests, npcs, etc to flesh it out and make the adventure longer, but am curious if the zones are an isolated pocket of the overall feywilds or the entirety?

ionic rivet
#

It is a specific domain within the feywilds I believe

heady mulch
#

gotcha, ill think of a way to weave in other domains then so they can have side adventures

crude blaze
#

Might be worth looking into if you don’t mind spending a few bucks

heady mulch
#

ooo that sounds like a good idea, is it as in-depth as the Ravenloft one cause thats a full on book

crude blaze
jagged apex
#

i think if any of them, wild beyond the witchlight only explores like one or 2 specific ones associated with certain adventures/quests in it

crude blaze
#

Witchlight only explores a single Domain of Delight, yeah. Cuz it’s an adventure module designed to focus on that one Domain

jagged apex
heady mulch
#

so it shouldnt be too difficult for me to expand to other domains as needed then

jagged apex
#

yep as the product is properly titled "Domains of Delight: A Feywild Accessory"

jagged apex
heady mulch
#

sweet ill look into that and see what they have available, bare minimum if i cant add anything easily, ill just incorporate the npcs (traveling domains) i have in mind into the first zone so the players can run into them along the way

loud totem
#

Does the Spelljammer setting speak of Wildspace having a Feywild equivalent?

iron saffron
#

Feywild is a plane of existence that's an echo of the Material Plane (as is the Shadowfell).

Spelljammer is just a means of travelling the long distances between worlds of the Material Plane (think "hyperspace" of Star Wars).

modest badger
#

Wildspace is where the Astral Plane overlaps with the Material Plane.
-Astral Adventure's Guide.
So I could see the reasoning that if the Feywild echoes the Material Plane, it can echo where the Material Plane overlaps with the Astral (wildspace)

#

But as far as I'm aware, 5e has not touched upon how the feywild interacts with wildspace.

iron saffron
#

However, 2E Spelljammer didn't involve the Astral Plane/Sea but rather you were still in the Material Plane when spelljamming travelling in the phlogiston. 5E changed that by using the Astral Sea instead of the phlogiston. (That said, there was no Feywild nor Shadowfell back in 2E)

modest badger
#

Feywild in 5e:

The Feywild exists in parallel to the Material Plane, an alternate dimension that occupies the same cosmological space. The landscape of the Feywild mirrors the natural world but turns its features into spectacular forms. Where a volcano stands on the Material Plane, a mountain topped with skyscraper-sized crystals that glow with internal fire towers in the Feywild. (...)

So I can definitely see there being an interaction. But no official lore that I know of. Very interesting question and idea though.

iron saffron
#

Does the Astral Plane connect to the Feywild and Shadowfell?

jagged apex
modest badger
#

The ethereal and deep ethereal do.

Visitors to the Deep Ethereal are engulfed by roiling mist. Scattered throughout the plane are curtains of vaporous color, and passing through a curtain leads a traveler to a region of the Border Ethereal connected to a specific Inner Plane, the Material Plane, the Feywild, or the Shadowfell.
-DMG
I think the Astral mostly has portals to the main outer planes (and sometimes portals to the material plane, or the ethereal, but no mention of to the feywild or shadowfell)

jagged apex
#

wildspace is more or less part of the material plane

unkempt merlin
iron saffron
#

Material Plane <-> Astral Plane <-> Outher Planes
Material Plane <-> Etheral Plane <-> Inner Planes (Elemental Planes, Positive/Negative Planes)

jagged apex
#

(depending on edition)

iron saffron
#

You mean cosmology

jagged apex
#

as positive and negative energy are not part of the inner planes after 2e, or at least are not as of 5e and it's cosmology

iron saffron
#

I'm referring to the Great Wheel cosmology was is the "default" D&D cosmology.

jagged apex
#

so am i

iron saffron
modest badger
#

That does seem to be the gist of it in 5e too. (Although positive/negative do exist in 5e, they're reduced in interaction and text: "The Positive and Negative Planes. These two planes enfold the rest of the cosmology, providing the raw forces of life and death that underlie the rest of existence in the multiverse.")

jagged apex
#

but from what i am able to find, they still could be reached via the ethereal and elemental planes

iron saffron
#

The Positive and Negative Planes have less meaning gameplay mechanics wise since Radiant and Necrotic damages aren't tied to them like in past editions.

jagged apex
#

positive and negative energy are the bread, all existence is the sandwich meat

iron saffron
modest badger
#

In 5e it does seem like the Astral Plane has little or nothing to do with the Echoes of the material plane (Fey, Shadow). There's no mention of a connection in the 5e DMG.

In a 4e FR campaign guide, there was:

Traveling to the Astral Sea requires only the proper ritual, or passage through pathways found in the world, the Feywild, and especially the Shadowfell.
Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide p.62

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Not in 5E. Both of those articles cite 3.5E edition books.

jagged apex
#

and while those are cited from older editions, to my knowledge nothing in 5e explicitly says this is not still the case in some manner

iron saffron
#

As I said earlier, 5E doesn't tie Radiant damage to Positive Energy nor Necrotic to Negative Energy. Radiant damage could represent radiation, lasers, or a sun sword.

jagged apex
#

well yeah, is not exclusive to those energies, but that is more mechanical to my understanding

unkempt merlin
#

The NEP is still linked to the shafowfell in 5e

#

One can reach the Negative Plane from the Shadowfell in places where the barrier between the planes is thin

#

Per the Nightwalker entries (both versions)

jagged apex
#

yeah, way i understand it, the shadowfell basically is able to act as a sort of bridge between the negative energy plane and the rest of the cosmos more or less, or at least the shadowfell and that which is connected to it

heady mulch
#

Better way of asking. Do the laws of one domain of the feywild apply to other domains?

cinder folio
heady mulch
#

Gotcha

jagged apex
#

in the feywild, unless a god walks in to the area, the archfey in charge of that territory calls the shots

#

at least last i checked

pine reef
#

do all demons have souls? demons can be spawned either from souls of mortals but also chugged out by the abyss. does that mean that the abyss makes souls?

heady mulch
jagged apex
#

far as i know, no

heady mulch
#

Okie dokie

jagged apex
lapis slate
magic jackal
lapis slate
#

You touch a creature that has been dead for no longer than 200 years and that died for any reason except old age. If the creature's soul is free and willing, the creature is restored to life with all its hit points.

#

since theres no rules for what creatures have a soul or not it seems safe to assume all statblocked creatures do

magic jackal
#

Again, stat blocks and game mechanics =/= Lore.

pine reef
#

according to lore demons can form either from the souls of mortals or without them, so if outsiders are just souls then the abyss is able to create souls from nothing.

jagged apex
pine reef
#

if outsider's physical form is soul, then in theory they ought to have.

iron saffron
#

Mortals have souls.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Yes and no.

pine reef
#

we're talking tan'ari demons, not obyrinths.

#

modern demons.

jagged apex
#

yes, mortal souls can become demons, but far more demons are spawned form the abyss itself to my knowledge

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Yes, in that tanar'ri demons can be created from the souls of CE mortals.

#

No, in that obryinth and loumara demons aren't. Also, the Abyss can create demons.

#

Demons don't rely on mortal souls to create more demons like devils do to repopulate.

jagged apex
#

basically do to the metaphysical nature of extra planar life, once the mortal soul has become anything apart from a petitioner, what they are innately spawned into that afterlife as, they are no longer that mortal being much less their soul, so essense is a bit more accurate than soul as we mortals view them

iron saffron
#

Demogorgon and Orcus are reportedly were once evil mortals eons ago.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Souls become petitioners and their new home plane shape them to whatever. LG mortal souls become lantern archons, which are the basis for archons, devas, etc.

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

A different type of life force.
Elves (at least in the older editions) didn't have souls but spirits, that's because when they died they didn't go to
Arvandor but are reincarnated again as an elf.

pine reef
jagged apex
pine reef
#

because I recall its able to do that, and the article mentions silver cord.

iron saffron
#

Outsiders (as in creatures native to the Outer Planes) like angels, devils, and demons don't have an afterlife to go to when they die, instead their essences get reabsorbed by their native plane.

Mortals on the other hand, their souls travel from the Material Plane to their patron deity's domain in the Outer Planes. As Scarletsteam mentioned their souls become petitioners.

jagged apex
#

seperating a soul's silver cord is not the same as being able to kill an outsider instantly

lapis slate
pine reef
#

older edition lore is still valid to my knowledge as 5e is very lacking in that regard.

lapis slate
jagged apex
lapis slate
#

Otherwise there would be way too much conflicting stuff

pine reef
#

5e doesn't have lore in many regards, that's the problem.

lapis slate
#

Spelljammer is one good example

iron saffron
lapis slate
pine reef
#

agree to disagree. if I do not have a 5e source for a subject of lore, I will use an older edition to fill in the gaps.

iron saffron
pine reef
#

i agree if new edition has material, but in case when it doesn't.

#

i revert to old edition

lapis slate
#

Like Spelljammers whole phlogistion stuff, or Drow colours ect

iron saffron
#

5E is very light with lore so I often go back to older editions' lore to fill the gaping gaps.

pine reef
#

^

lapis slate
jagged apex
iron saffron
pine reef
lapis slate
#

Yeah Im saying 5e lore is seperate to every other editions lore

jagged apex
#

when using past editions to fill in gaps, anything that is not contradicted by newer materials, is considered/presumed canon, until more recent lore says otherwise

lapis slate
#

But if you wanna use lore from diffrent editions go ahead

jagged apex
#

plus certain things are just universal and rarely if ever change

iron saffron
#

WotC has basically has had a hands off approach to canon lore. "Eh, you make it up..."

#

Their biggest canon lore change was switching FR from the World Tree cosmology to the Great Wheel cosmology in 5E.

jagged apex
#

basically if anything is ment to be different from prior editions those are things that they will go out of their way to detail or at least imply to be a different way, depending on the subject

iron saffron
#

Lore has changed drastically in between in edition. That's why TSR/WotC had those cataclysms like the 1E to 2E Time of Troubles, 3E to 4E Spellplague, and 4E to 5E Second Sundering.

#

I'm surprised there wasn't something between 2E and 3E considering 3E was a major reboot of the rules and a cataclysm would have explain the changes in the magic system.

jagged apex
#

but to try and simplify summing things up, in regards to the soul, the metaphysical nature of the outer planes makes the line between the physical and the spiritual become more or less non existent, the loosest part a being of the outer planes can still be considered a soul is when they initially spawn into their afterlife as a petitioner, but if they become anything beyond that, typically via promotion, they can no longer be resurrected, back in the living world ie the prime material plane, do to their soul effectively no longer being a soul, let alone their soul, it has become a new entity entirely, with scarce traces of that person's emotional memory at best

#

but even as a petitioner, one could barely consider it a soul as it is still a being in it of itself, just largely a version of that person as they were in life, cuz that sort of connection/imprint still exists in a more whole state

#

effectively as they become something else especially multiple times in the cases of some hierarchies they might find themselves in such as those of archons or devils, that sort of connection or imprint, dilutes, first time is too different to be able to still be a soul that can be restored to their body, and even more so as they undergo such transformative proccesses again

#

i know it might be a bit wordy, but is the best i can simplify it all at least while explaining it as adequately as i possibly can

pine reef
#

no, it makes sense.

cobalt lark
#

Is there a deity / significantly powerful being similar in ideals and aesthetic to Psilofyr but more radical? I am planning my bbeg as a spore druid type beat, and Psilofyr is too chill for the ideals of “We must burn away the world, for a better one will rise from the ashes.”

#

Wait I’m literally just describing that fungus demon queen right

#

Zuggotmy or however it’s spelt

iron saffron
#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Psilofyr#Enemies

Although one might initially expect Psilofyr and Zuggtmoy to cooperate, they in fact represented two antithetical ideals. While the immortal Carrion King viewed death as a tool to renew the earth, Zuggtmoy reveled in decay for it's own sake, making her and her cultists enemies to the myconids. Zuggtmoy was not above using her wicked spores to corrupt Psilofyr's children, twisting them into abyssal monstrosities bound to her dark will.

untold sandal
#

Does it make sense lore-wise to have a community of Sea Elves that primarily lives above water? Say, on the shore of an ocean? They might often hunt and perform activities underwater off their coast, but they mostly live on land?

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

untold sandal
#

lol they told me to ask here

#

fair enough though I think Ill just run with it

cobalt lark
#

Yes, looking at her in the book, I think she’s too pure evil (fiend moment) I’ll just have a really devoted and impatient zealot of Psilofyr

#

I think I will feature her in some form however

#

It’d be a sin not to

pine reef
#

OldMan a question for u since u seem to be the loremaster of demons/abyss. How exactly is the Abyss travel? Like, let's say you're in the layer 600. If you go down, you'll eventually get to 599. Or they're not connected physically?

#

To get to 1 from 600, you'd need to go through 599 other continents for example?

jagged apex
#

portals

#

hence it various nicknames/alternate names

#

to my knowledge most layers have portals lead from one to another, and are not usually physically connected with some possible exceptions

pine reef
#

the layers connect with any other, or just the one above/bellow?

#

via portals i mean.

jagged apex
#

far as i know it is a bit unclear, but if had to guess based on what i know, usually is just with the next layer, such is the case with the layers ruled by demogorgon and dagon

pine reef
#

makes sense. if they could all connect with one another then the fist layer with all the portals wouldn't be special.

jagged apex
#

so potentially say the second layer would be connected to the 1st and 3rd, naturally, unless additional portals were set up

#

though is worth noting that often the numbering of the layers are arbitrary as they are noted by mortal scholars that dared to explore and chart the abyss, and thus the numberings can be inconsistent from source to source, so the names are often more important than the number assigned to them, only one that to my knowledge is consistently the first layer is Pazunia

cobalt lark
#

I like to imagine the abyss as a gigantic spiral staircase that gets worse each step you take

pine reef
cobalt lark
pine reef
#

ik devils got wizards and the like

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

jagged apex
#

but their standards and practices both likely are much different from what one may initially expect of the scholarly type

#

though most are likely specific individuals

ivory ice
#

"Some guy got lucky with an eldritch being, and now is traveling to find her again. The concept is funny, but the character is serious.
He's not some thirsty bastard, he is just heart broken, and wants to tell his feelings, with the hope of getting married or something."

Is there someone in "Light of Xaryxis" that might be my patron?

iron saffron
#

We don't really talk about specific adventures here, especially if they're possible spoilers.

iron saffron
final hazel
#

oopsies, thank you

drowsy turtle
#

I’ve got a question about toril-specific races.

Which of the playable races from the Monsters of the Multiverse source book are from toril? Or, if it’s easier, which playable races from this source book are not from Toril and technically wouldn’t be found there? (Excluding interplanar portals)

polar rain
#

so if warlocks get their magic via a patron, wizards learn to manipulate and harness magic via study, sorcerers just kind of Have It, paladins seemingly get theirs via the force of will associated with their oath, etc. etc., how do bards' magic work?

cinder folio
# polar rain so if warlocks get their magic via a patron, wizards learn to manipulate and har...

"In the worlds of D&D, words and music are not just vibrations of air, but vocalizations with power all their own. The bard is a master of song, speech, and the magic they contain. Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos. The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers."

polar rain
pine reef
pine reef
#

How are magic items made lore-wise? By spellcasters? By smiths? By combination of both?

iron saffron
#

Yes.

#

Creation of magic items is by spellcasters and sometimes with help of smiths, in the case of armour/weapons. In 3E, armour and weapons needed to be at least masterwork quality.

#

Look at the game mechanics of the particular edition on magic item crafting for detailed information.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Look in the DMG and Xanathar's.

jagged apex
#

bards basically channel the magic of creation and other aspects of magic, via their art, most typically that is singing and performing music, but is not limited to that specifically

#

at least that is how i understand it to be

jagged apex
pine reef
jagged apex
#

well, is not a common practice these days and that could be simply items of similar power to the great empires of old, but largely it is simply ambiguous, which could be what the dmg is trying to say wheh it originally was covering the topic

unkempt merlin
#

Wizards (and by extension artificers) are primarily responsible in a number of settings

last scaffold
#

Does anyone know if rangers and druids were unheard of during the Time of Darkness in Dragonlance? Is their magic cut off like clerics?

iron saffron
#

Rangers existed

last scaffold
#

Able to use their spells?

iron saffron
#

I don't recall

gilded lava
#

i understand that a lot of mind flayer's abilities aren't considered magic because they don't fit the criteria, are Psionics in dnd considered nonmagical in the same way Ki isn't?

iron saffron
#

Are you asking as a gameplay mechanic?

#

Each edition treated psionics differently

jagged apex
#

psionics in 5e is basically magic that is cased purely via thought

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

2e, 3e, and 4e had pscionicist classes

jagged apex
#

and that is just on the lore side of things, in terms of mechanics, it always was inconsistant from my understanding, each edition handling it differently

iron saffron
#

5E is the only one that doesn't have a separate psionics system from the magic system

#

1e psionics was a mess...

jagged apex
#

as in the 5e the continuity, psionics is a form of magic, hence why it does not have it's own system, just specific means of of how it is cast

iron saffron
#

Anyone could have a chance to have psionics powers in 1E

#

It was in 2E I think psionics were a separate class and used points

jagged apex
#

honestly most of the talk about psionics, largely is outside the scope of lore and likely would be better talked about else where, at least to my understanding

serene crater
#

Quick question but are mind flayers known to bring others of their own kind to submission. I know they're competitive but im not sure if it would be possible for a normal one, nevertheless a renegade

jagged apex
serene crater
#

hmm

jagged apex
#

what is the name of those orcs that drink white dragon blood and live in/near the spine of the world mountains that result in some half white dragon orcs that come from that ritualistic drinking of white dragon blood? i recall hearing about it in a lore video, but not sure if that was made up or not cuz i can't seem to find it when searching online

iron saffron
#

Never heard of them.

jagged apex
#

well if anyone does know of the name of the tribe/clan/organization, do let me know, or if you are able to gather that i was simply misinformed and such a group does not exist in the any editions of the forgotten realms

astral root
main fog
#

Where do Dragons go when they die…specifically evil dragons 🤔

Good dragons, mainly metallic dragons go to the upper planes when they die…or I at least think the ones in the upper planes are deceased dragons.

But do evil dragons simply go to Avernus to serve Tiamat? Do they become Abishai? I always assumed humanoid followers, cultist became Abishai, not Dragons.

Do they just end up in hell with her?

jagged apex
# astral root might be the Blood Ice Tribe/Orcs you're looking for. I am kinda sure that they'...

seems to be similar, but not able to find if is homebrew or canon, only bit from what i can find is from obsidian portal, and seems to attribute it to auril's blessing via the ice witch, but seems it may be homebrew since i can't find it anywhere else, not even a brief mention of the character's forgotten realms wiki page, and also can't find this blood ice tribe anywhere other than that obsidian portal site

#

i suspect i may have simply been misinformed

iron saffron
#

Obsidian Portal is just for people to write down their campaign table's lore.

jagged apex
#

ah

jagged apex
#

so does that mean the blood ice tribe is not a canon orc tribe or did someone likely just take the name from an existing one and is just obscure?

iron saffron
#

If it's from Obsidian Portal it's a good chance it's from someone's personal campaign and not official lore.

#

I run a 3.5E prewritten campaign and I do find other's "lore" on what happened with their own party running the campaign on Obsidian Portal, sometimes with stuff not found in the original books.

jagged apex
#

well, if one is able to find if the tribe is made up or not, do let me know, cuz otherwise closest official clan i have found is the iceshields, which has nothing in common with the tribe i was thinking of or what i was able to find on those ice blood guys

sharp owl
#

You said it yourself, you could only find reference on Obsidian Portal
It's homebrew lore

hollow blade
#

Hello, I don't know the lore of DND 5 but do dnd5 or the others have a universe in common and what is it called?

unkempt merlin
#

There is a dnd multiverse yes

#

It contains many different settings

iron saffron
#

The Forgotten Realms, Spelljammer, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, and Planescape are all campaign settings that take place in the same multiverse (aka the Great Wheel cosmology).

#

Each plane of existence is essentially an universe onto itself with the Material Plane as the "regular" universe (aka ours).

hollow blade
#

he exist lore book of dnd5 for know history ?

iron saffron
#

Each official campaign setting has its own lore.

#

If you play at a table where they DM has a homebrew setting then learning about the official campaign setting lore would be moot.

jagged apex
#

each edition is it's own continuity but some things carry over and happen in some capacity, assuming by dnd 5 you mean dnd 5e

iron saffron
#

D&D is 50 years old and there has been more than five editions, each one with it's own set of lore and the succeeding edition tends to change or overwrite the preceeding edition's lore. (It's almost as bad as trying to follow DC Comic's canon...)

jagged apex
#

i like to think of each edition as a sort of branched timeline, each edition branching off, at least in the forgotten realms case, from each notable catylist used to explain in universe the changes, and there while not necessarily exact, some version of those past events will still have happened in some capacity, all though some differences compared to past editions, if that helps

iron saffron
#

(A lot of us don't talk about the 4E lore...)

jagged apex
#

in short i like to think of each edition largely as a variation of the same timeline, that we only get the lore up to the point that the new edition picks up from

#

yeah, 4e largely was removed from most lore of other editions, hense why all but the most well recieved elements were to my knowledge, retconned and even then got their own revisions for the 5e continuity, most notable example of this being the raven queen

iron saffron
#

Well, there were "soft reboots" between the editions, particularly in the FR lore, as a narrative means to justify the changes in the ruleset, especially the magic system.

jagged apex
#

yeah, the term would be soft reboot, does not reset everything, but reverts to a sort of status quo that keeps the best/most popular of what came before, think the likes of DC comics' ne 52 and the series that followed up to their most recent reiteration (which basically said, everything is canon, just till now everyone forgot about it with each reboot, with some exceptions)

iron saffron
#

I do go back to my 4E books and look at all the stuff that was drastically changed 180 from the previous editions' lore -- 4E added the Elemental Chaos, angels were generic celestial beings (they looked like the 5E elemental myrmidons) that served all gods, good or evil, demons were elementals, etc.

5E kept some stuff from 4E, such as the Shadowfell, Feywild, and the Astral Sea.

#

I think 4E changed too much stuff too drastically for people's liking.

jagged apex
#

if trying to understand 5e lore, basically would maybe be best to start with the 5e lore and then read up on older lore, using anything not contradicted by the lore that is presented in 5e, to fill in the gaps of anything that might otherwise be left a bit too ambiguous for your liking, but do keep in mind there are some elements of dnd lore that are deliberately kept vague and ambiguous and will only ever be fleshed out so far, if at all

cinder folio
#

Points of Light was a good idea.

jagged apex
#

i have a bit of a personal theory of how that setting would be incorporated into the current cosmos, but this is not really the channel for theories or head canons so i will not elaborate, at least not in this channel

pine reef
jagged apex
#

but to my knowledge points of light was basically an incomplete setting that was ment to be able to incorporate homebrew with ease into it's canon, which honestly is kind of a poor idea for a published setting at least, cuz it basically breaks what keeps those published settings at least somewhat understandable as some thing vary from setting to setting

jagged apex
iron saffron
# pine reef But that's all D&D lore, no?

Yes... they were asking about the multiverse. I was explaining that many of the official D&D campaign settings all take place in the same multiverse (some even on the same planet!)

jagged apex
#

if you delve into other dnd media, take it with a grain of salt, as those are technically also their own continuities, such as the novels, video games, ect... and others are a bit unclear, like honor among thieves last i checked, at least in so far as how the forgotten realms wiki attempts to consolidate it's events, but odds are is likely it's own continuity too

iron saffron
#

Yes, that's like comparing the Marvel Comics canon to the MCU canon to the various animated Marvel tv series canon...

pine reef
#

what Cyannamon asked also interests me and it remains unanswered. what happens to dragons that die? from my understand their souls are special.

iron saffron
#

That said, during 2E and 3E, the D&D comics and novels were for the most part considered canon.

pine reef
#

from what I read, some lore says that dragons can't die. if their physical form is slain they reincarnate.

iron saffron
#

Did you read Fizban's?

pine reef
#

ye

jagged apex
pine reef
#

I believe Fizban said it that when a dragon dies it just reincarnates and becomes and egg and begins the cycle anew.

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Marvel has the handwave explaination of Earth-[insert number] for each of their multiverse

pine reef
iron saffron
#

I own Fizban's but I'm not going to get my copy and read it since technically I should be working...

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Fizban is the narrator of the book...

jagged apex
#

as by dnd's own logic, reincarnation only works if you die

#

be that lore or mechanics, both support that logic

#

i mean, do you think bigby would have allowed himself to be turned into a gnome if he did not have to take that chance just to not be dead?

#

cuz from what i gathered, bigby was in modern terms, initially very salty about being restored to life as a gnome

iron saffron
#

According to the D&D 3.5 Draconomicon, p. 33, the draconic deity Chronepsis decides where dragon souls go:

Chronepsis is a passionless observer of the world. He passes judgement on all dragons when they die, deciding where their souls go in the afterlife.

Draconomicon p.15,

A dragon can simply will its spirit to depart. Upon doing so, the dragon dies, and its spirit is released into the hereafter.

pine reef
#

OK, here's what the book says:

#

Rejenuvation: On DM's discretion, you might decide that Dragons are a vital part of the Prime Material Plane and are impossible to destroy. A dragon's life essence is preserved within the egg from which it emerged like a lich's phylactery

jagged apex
# iron saffron According to the D&D 3.5 Draconomicon, p. 33, the draconic deity Chronepsis deci...

5e planescape seems to more or less support this as still being the status quo, at least far as i can tell
"Chronepsis prefers to be left alone, and he seldom leaves his sanctum. In times of great need, he relies on seasoned adventurers to recover stolen hourglasses, speed the sands of a troublesome wyrm, or travel back in time to mend a past wrongdoing." from "sigil and the outlands" chapter 3

pine reef
#

Further quotes: A dragon can enter a deep trance and die, leaving behind a single egg to regenerate from.

pine reef
jagged apex
#

though seems that it is a more broad description of his personality compared to your citation from past editions, but to me at least it seems to fit with the "passionless observer of the world" thing

#

to my knowledge historically, the only dragons who have been immortal in any capacity besides undead or gods, are the time dragons, who in the 5e continuity seem to do this just by automatically reincarnating

#

so i'd say at least more often than not, a dragon very much can be killed, at least going by the published lore of any given edition

jagged apex
#

maybe, idk

sharp owl
#

I think the take away is that lore wise dragons are such powerful and unique beings that what happens to them when they die depends on the dragon itself and there's no one answer

pine reef
#

that would make sense since they're magical creatures.

#

still, a tad annoying there isn't a firm answer.

gloomy patio
#

Would it be possible for someone in faerun to make something similar to a modern day soda?

iron saffron
#

Sure, since Elminster has been to Earth more than a few times.

unkempt merlin
#

A syrup based drink that is aerated is totally possible

#

Aerated drinks in general really. Especially with how much anachronistic irl things faerun pulls from our timeline

jagged apex
#

so given it's existance, i'd say, yes

cobalt lark
#

Asked main chat, but didn’t get an answer. What’s the name of that fungus demon from Mordenkainen’s that stretches over gateways and converts them into portals to the abyss? I’m trying to find it but I’m not being lucky at all rn.

oblique wave
cobalt lark
#

Main chat did come through, it’s an Alkilith

tribal sinew
#

anyone know where to start getting in the entirty of dnd's lore?

unkempt merlin
#

choose a setting to focus on

#

the entirety of lore is many decades of things

thorny silo
#

Hey there everyone.
I've been looking on customizing and expanding on Space Clown lore so I can use them instead of Mind Flayers in my campaign. I'm not at the part of setting up Clownspace. I have some ideas and stray thoughts outside of the requisite three ring-shaped planets sharing the same orbit, but what else could I put in there? Is there anyone else who thought of this?

serene crater
jagged apex
serene crater
#

quick question, but aside from the dead three, have there been any other gods that have tried to take over the material plane for FR?

jagged apex
#

not to my knowledge

#

at best most gods use toril just as a means or stepping stone to achieving some greater goal or just gain more power via worship, but most don't to my knowledge put as much effort into it as the dead three

pine reef
jagged apex
#

pretty much everywhere

#

gods can exist across multiple settings and are not bound by linear time

#

not to mention some have more personal matters they are busy with most of the time, such as Gruumsh and Maglubyet's war against one another on acheron

#

plus even with in the forgotten realms setting, there is more than just one planet with mortal life on it, toril is just the most commonly focused on one

jagged apex
pine reef
#

i recall a long time ago we talked how asmodeus set out the laws that govern the gods and what can they do

#

anyone recall where is that written or what was it called?

iron saffron
#

Asmodeus didn't write those laws.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

untold sandal
#

not sure if its the right channel to ask, but are devils "allowed" to put pressure/worsen the lives of people to incentivize them to sign contracts? I know Erinyes punish devils who dont fulfill their contracts or make unfair deals, but is it punishable/allowed for devils to like, make your life rough so you feel more reason to take the contract? For example killing a farmers crops so they make less money or just cause general mischief in their lives so they get "down bad" and feel like more enticed to take a contract?

#

and if not, would they be allowed to convince another creature, say a greedy town mayor, to do that dirty work for them

iron saffron
#

Devils are the best lawyers in the multiverse. Why use pressure tactics when it's in the fine print?

untold sandal
#

the reason I had in mind was just some especially stubborn people were resisting them, and these devils are trying to "clean sweep" a region if that makes sense.

#

like the deals could look as favourable as possible, and all the convincing and word tactics could be used, but if that villager or whatever is just very averse to evil and just absolutely refuses to make a pact with evil, would the devils be able to use other tactics

#

idk if there is an etiquette about that kind of thing

elder hazel
#

I thiiink this is the right place to ask. But does anyone have a general idea of when owlbears reach physical maturity. Like what age is an owlbear likely to start having cubs

iron saffron
#

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Owlbear#Ecology

Although warm-blooded mammalian creatures, owlbears laid eggs. Almost spherical, they laid as many as six eggs in each clutch and several days apart. Young owlbears were called chicks or cubs. Adult owlbears dwelled together as mated pairs, and had up to six chicks at a time, which they kept in their lairs while they went hunting. Despite this, owlbear chicks were still relatively dangerous. Owlbear mothers did not produce milk and cubs were as carnivorous as adults, so adults brought them fresh meat. The mothers reared and trained the cubs in hunting until they were about two years old, when they were able to hunt on their own. Mated owlbears usually separated when the young were old enough to hunt, but if prey was readily available, a family could stay together for longer periods. Once old enough, cubs left to establish their own territory. They lived up to 20 years.

elder hazel
#

Yeah I read through that page. Couldn't find anything on physical maturity

plucky forge
#

20 years is around the age of mundane bears so i'd assume its somewhere in the range of 5ish years 🤷

untold sandal
#

Are Tieflings "accepted" in the Nine hells? (as much as one can be accepted in there) Are they able to be promoted? Say a Tiefling has a very close relative 1 generation back, like a highly ranked Devil, and they decided to go live in Hell, would that be possible or would they be hated/killed etc. Would a Tiefling be able to gain the favour of a devil and become protected in a way? Would they be allowed to get other mortals to sign away their souls?

sharp owl
#

Tieflings are humanoids, not devils, so they don't have a place in the infernal hierarchy

untold sandal
#

do half fiends go back to hell when they die on other planes, like other fiends?

untold sandal
sharp owl
#

That doesn't change what I said

#

You have to be a devil to have a place in the infernal hierachy

#

Usually by selling your soul, then dying and emerging from the River Styx

untold sandal
#

is having a place in the devil hierarchy required to be treated any differently from other mortals?

sharp owl
#

Depends what you mean by differently

#

If you're asking if tieflings get preferential treatment, the answer is no

#

A tieflings infernal heritage doesn't equate into the structure of devil 'society', they're still mortals and would be treated just as any other mortal; as a potential soul to be enslaved to the Blood War

untold sandal
#

no I'm more asking is it required to be in the hierarchy to obtain preferential treatment.

And that preference could be as simple as "we dont want to kill you/steal your soul" etc. whatever most fiends do when they see a human or whatever in the nine hells. For example if you managed to get a duke/archduke/pit fiend to somehow like you in a way (could be because you're their lineage, or you obtained lots of souls for them) would other devils recognize that as worth anything, would any of them ever second guess their actions towards you because of that

sharp owl
#

If you can provide something of utility to the Blood War, you may get special treatement

untold sandal
#

Tieflings have been known as fighting in the Blood Wars right?

sharp owl
#

That's how high priests and priestesses of Asmodeus get power, by funelling souls into Avernus

#

Tieflings do not get any special treatment by virtue of being tieflings

#

And generally no, mortals don't get involved directly in the Blood War

untold sandal
#

so a human would have the same chances at that preferential treatment as a tiefling basically

#

what about half fiends?

sharp owl
#

Given that half-fiends can be half devil, demon, yugoloth or just generic half-fiend, no

#

But even someone who is half-devil and half-devil enough to be a fiend rather than a mortal would still have to provide utility to the infernal hierarchy

untold sandal
#

would getting a lot of souls help in that aspect?

sharp owl
#

That is one of the examples I gave

untold sandal
#

ok cool

#

and then Im also curious about how half fiends dying works. obviously devils who die in the material plane respawn in hell, does the same apply to half devils at all? or do they just die

mossy tapir
#

so from what i understand the highest level of spell that can be cast is level 9 because of the spell karsus's avatar. the thing i am confused about is how this is affecting the ability of spell casters such as bards or druids to cast magic of a higher level. shouldn't this spell lore wise only affect wizards?

sharp owl
#

Mystra, in response to the spell being cast, removed the knowledge of the spell from the multiverse and limited all spellcasters from ever casting spells above 9th level to prevent such a thing happening

#

The spell itself didn't cause the 9th level limit

jagged apex
#

more so mystra became more strict about magic for mortals, do to the results of the spell rather than it's mere invention, as to my understanding, had he literally picked any other god but mystra, it would not have ended in the near destruction of the weave and catastrophe that it is known to have been

#

and technically, to my knowledge this limitation is only within the forgotten realms setting, presumably other settings have either other reasons or nobody has amassed enough power, knowledge, or what ever to have learned how to use stronger spells than those of 9th level

#

and it arguably is mainly in relation to humans as they are the ones that from my understanding are most effected/limited by it, do to our shorter lifespan to many other races in the realms, some races such as the elves with their elven high magic, it changed very little, at least in comparison, so while all mortal races are effected by that change, it mainly effects humans, cuz we just kind of had a track record of not using it well in the forgotten realms, karsus' folly and how it went down was more or less the straw that broke the camel's back

sharp owl
#

Well the limitation exists in all settings that use D&D fifth edition rules

#

It's just that reason that applies only to the Forgotten Realms

shadow aurora
#

Candlekeep's book requirement for entry: what's the basis of it? In a certain adventure a recipe book counts...so...could one pull a fast one on them by writing a brief biography of themselves, truthful or not, and expect it to count?

jagged apex
#

it is a massive library compound and an institute of knowledge, to my understanding that book entry thing is a way of paying with knowledge to contribute to their cause(s)

sharp owl
#

The requirement is that it has to be novel (as in new, not as in the type of book) book, that's it

shadow aurora
sharp owl
#

That's for them to decide

#

They don't have hard rules

#

If you want to argue with people who are lifelong career librarians who also know fireball as to what counts as a book, good luck

jagged apex
#

from what i recall, basically anything they don't already have in their libraries

sharp owl
#

Yeah

shadow aurora
#

I guess it must be pretty open-ended them....

#

*then

sharp owl
#

Yes and no

#

Like, we're talking about real people, not mindless automatons. If you try and pull a fast one, they'll just kick you out

shadow aurora
#

If it's something they lack, and if you make up a recipe book on the fly, it should count..as they take the recipes of Calimshan book..and if you write a brief off-kilter cultist novel, then apocalypto is basically that...

jagged apex
#

so rare books, or more complete works of some that are known to at best be obtained but incomplete, are easily good choices that are almost guarantied to grant you entry, at least to my understanding

sharp owl
#

Anyone going into Candlekeep with a 3 page leaflet of gibberish spouting "It's technically a book" is gonna get laughed out

sharp owl
jagged apex
#

and to my knowledge they have regularly used forms of magic to prevent that sort of thing, so pulling a fast one would be difficult to say the least

sharp owl
#

It's not something someone can rules lawyer

shadow aurora
#

I'm wondering because the options presented by the adventure are basically things anyone could reasonably imitate...a recipe book and a bunch of weird culty doomsday stuff.

jagged apex
#

i forget in what video, but i recall AJ Pickett covering this topic specifically in one of his videos relating to either candlekeep or the anthology sourcebook that bears it's name in it's title

shadow aurora
#

If grandma's got a secret recipe it's not like they'd see that elsewhere

sharp owl
#

Just because you could immitate it, doesn't mean you'd succeed

shadow aurora
jagged apex
shadow aurora
#

excellent

#

thanks

sharp iron
#

Is there an elven word/name for wood elves, high elves, and sea elves?

shadow aurora
#

"wild hippies", "Snobby", "those guys over there"

#

(joke)

#

sy-tel-quessir, is woodelf

#

Alu'Tel'Quessir is sea

#

Teu-tel-quessir is moon

#

Ar-tel-quessir is sun/"high"

sharp iron
#

Rad, thanks! Running a homebrew setting where most of the elven subraces have beef with each other, and realized they probably would call each other by an elven name, not the common translation, if there was one. And if there already was one, that’s a little less work for me 😂

shadow aurora
#

this is my source

sharp iron
#

Perfect, thanks!

jagged apex
#

are there any known orcish gods of cold and or winter? regardless if of specific setting or not, any published setting would be suitable if one exists obscure or otherwise

iron saffron
#

Not that I know of.

sharp iron
#

Supposedly there are many unnamed Orc gods, so you could probably establish one. Or you could have your clan of wintery orcs worship a giant god or something

#

Like Thrym

iron saffron
serene crater
pine reef
#

What resource is unique to Abyss apart from Abyssal bloodiron

serene crater
#

demon ichor for certain

pine reef
# serene crater demon ichor for certain

isn't that something that can only be obtained -outside- the Abyss where a demon slained turns to demon inchor while in the abyss they actually die and leave bodies instead?

serene crater
#

It notes that ot can just be found on the lower planes, nothing noting it couldn't be found in the abyss

jagged apex
# iron saffron Not that I know of.

ah ha!, found one, he is not given the portfolio or domain, but is still otherwise known as the orcish god of cold and this seems supported by the items in his possession, Shargaas, orcish god of the cold, the dark, and the night

iron saffron
jagged apex
iron saffron
#

None of his portfolios/domains are cold related

jagged apex
#

well being their god of cold, is the main thing i was hoping for, which gives me some lore to build off of for the purposes of my idea

iron saffron
#

He's the orcish god of darkness and thievery

#

Look at the right-hand column and he's been around from 1E to 5E. His portfolio throughout the editions are related to darkness and thievery. I don't see "cold" listed under portfolios/domains.

jagged apex
#

how was that inappropriate language? well the line that attributes him as a god of cold, is cited

iron saffron
#

Where in the article does it say he's the orc god of cold?

#

Oh nevermind... first sentence.

jagged apex
#

yeah, could not link to it for some reason without it being deleted as quote "inappropriate language"

iron saffron
#

Wierd it's not a domain.

jagged apex
#

one thing that i am not fully aware of the details of is how a god goes about usurping a portfolio from another god, even in just the forgotten realms setting, anyone happen to know and willing to explain it to me?

iron saffron
#

They fight for it.

unkempt merlin
#

they fight for it/a god dies for one reason or another and another one takes over the domain, among other ways

#

like the Raven Queen in Exandria has her domains of Fate and Winter, which used to belong to other gods who were killed (and she usurped the previous god of death)

iron saffron
#

Or in Jergal's case he said, "Screw it, I'm retiring. You three mortals can have my portfolios."

pine reef
iron saffron
#

He's still alive. Just retired in Florida.

jagged apex
#

ok, that has some gears turning given the the current statuses/levels of divinity in 5e for Shargaas and Auril

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

assuming both are of the same level of power of course as i recall that is a factor

unkempt merlin
#

to my knowledge there is precisely 0 info about that

#

But I believe the implication is its only for the setting

iron saffron
#

I can't remember which book it was in but they gave the example that if Lolth is killed in one setting (say Realmspace) she will still exist in others.

jagged apex
#

will go with that, but if can remember the source to confirm or debunk it, plz let me know

iron saffron
#

I thought it was in 3E Deities and Demigods but I just looked through it and can't find it.

upbeat forum
#

So we play in the Forgotten Realms setting and the campaign is set in fareûn. One of my players (new to dnd) made a druid with a backstory that involves a swarm of some big bird-like creatures that destroyed her home forest with poisonous bird poop. Is there a monster like that in this setting or do I have to add some homebrew to the world?

iron saffron
#

Can you be more specific on the "bird-like" creatures?

#

Most monsters from the Monster Manual can be found on Toril.

jagged apex
#

can't honestly say i am aware of any creatures in dnd with poisonous poop, bird like or otherwise, except maybe a dragon who has a poisonous breath weapon, else sounds like you would be better off in #homebrew

pine reef
#

poisonous bird poop. now i heard it all.

jagged apex
#

plus to be honest, not even sure if that line of logic would even make sense

iron saffron
#

Remember as DM you can say, "No, no such monster bird exists in the campaign setting, pick another creature" becuase you have final say on PCs' backstories.

jagged apex
pure hound
#

What realm would be a good starter one whilst creating my first homemade world?

serene crater
#

hmm?

serene crater
iron saffron
serene crater
#

agreed

pure hound
#

Will do

modest badger
orchid ocean
#

I have a question.
Are there any other far realm infested stars like Hadar? I know he doesn't have a fixed space in the Constellations but I'm doing some world building and eventually I wanna build some star charts and Constellations.

#

I'd assume that all far realm infested stars have no fixed locations in the stars
And if you were to look up in the sky and see him. Would it be arcana or history?

cinder folio
# orchid ocean I'd assume that all far realm infested stars have no fixed locations in the star...

Arcana or History, interesting. Arcana I imagine would give you the results of direct observation - limited, most likely, unless you have a telescope. So possibly you could detect the corrupting influence of the Far Realms, get some notion that it's more than a regular star, probably have to make some kind of saving throw against the effects of studying it too closely.

History would tell you things people think they know about it, what it is and what it does.

orchid ocean
#

Thanks

cinder folio
#

If you're going homebrew with some of your ideas, may I suggest the Judgements of Sunless Skies?

modest badger
# iron saffron I can't remember which book it was in but they gave the example that if Lolth is...

Ah 2e Faiths and Avatars!

Incidents that occur on one crystal sphere are not relevant to the dealings of that deity on another. Only incidents that affect a deity on its home plane of existence (usually in the Outer Planes) affect the power in all crystal spheres, and even then one has to be careful not to assume too much. So, beings who are multispheric who die in the Realms have merely involuntarily or voluntarily severed their divine connection to Realmspace. They are not dead, but they might as well be as far as the inhabitants of the Realms are concerned.
page 14, 'Multispheric powers or Is Tiamat Dead or Not?'

serene goblet
#

is there any "offical" translator for elvish?

grim siren
serene goblet
#

thanks!

quaint grotto
iron saffron
spark haven
#

that's the real answer. the wiki is edited by non-wizard employees, so you would need to check the citations

#

parts of it are canon, give or take

modest badger
#

The only sources I'd consider 'non official' for the FR wiki, is that it considers any message from Ed Greenwood on Faerun to be official and canon, which is different to what D&D/WotC/this server would consider official or canon.

crude blaze
#

Greenwood needs a cool nickname for his own canon, except I can’t think of anything as catchy as Kanon is for Keith Baker

modest badger
#

Messages from setting authors are more like the lore equivalent to RAI or Crawford Tweets for rules. Certainly can be helpful and informative, but not 'official' or 'LAW' (Lore as written)

modest badger
jagged apex
slow river
#

does anyone know what a traditional elf wedding dress would look like?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge, no such image is given and is not necessarily they have marriage customs the same as we humans

#

but after a quick google search, someone on reddit with a similar question seemed to be pointed to the 3e book "Races of the Wild", which at least seems to cover their marriage customs, so if you have access to that sourcebook, perhaps check there?

orchid ocean
#

So Maglubiyet is the God the goblinoids are forced to serve then they die, like they are basicly garntied to be forced to fight for him when they die.

If the goblinoid Worshiped a different God could they go with that God in the afterlife or would Maglubiyet still keep them?

He's not a goblinoid God but he did slaughter the majority of their pantheon and enslave the rest

iron saffron
#

The rule of thumb is that mortal souls (aka petitioners) go to the domain of the gods they had worshipped.

orchid ocean
#

true
i thought diffrent for these guys because of what Maglubiyet did and what he does

late storm
#

What is an aspect of Attropus?

still creek
#

Is there a reason most people give dwarves a scottish accent?

unkempt merlin
#

Not a lore reason

still creek
#

Oh. Sorry

late storm
#

Uh, you two?

#

I think I'm asking the more serious questions.

still creek
#

I'm sorry. I wouldn't know.

unkempt merlin
late storm
#

Yeah, I know, sorry, this questions confooziling my mind a bit

#

And I perfer an un confoozled mind.

mortal panther
# late storm What is an aspect of Attropus?

Atropus is an undead planet from the 3.5e book Elder Evils. The Aspect of Atropus is this headless monster thing that represented the planet and defeating it could stop Atropus

ancient umbra
#

I have a question regarding tieflings and warlocks

#

Hypothetically, if someone is a human warlock with a fiend pact, and they decided to have a kid, would it be reasonable for the kid to turn out to be tiefling?

modest badger
#

I believe that is an implied origin. In 5e for example tiefling's flavour text has:

And to twist the knife, tieflings know that this is because a pact struck generations ago infused the essence of Asmodeus-overlord of the Nine Hells-into their bloodline.

But this is also for the PHB tieflings and reffering a bit more to the unusual situation where Asmodeus essentially 'adopted' a whole bunch of tieflings into his bloodline in a ritual to gain power in the Forgotten Realm setting:

During the Spellplague, Asmodeus consumed the divine spark of Azuth and thereby achieved godhood. Subsequently, Asmodeus and a coven of warlocks, the Toril Thirteen, performed a rite wherein the archdevil claimed all tieflings in the world as his own, cursing them to bear "the blood of Asmodeus." This act marked all tieflings as "descendants" of the Lord of the Nine Hells, regardless of their true heritage, and changed them into creatures that resembled their supposed progenitor.
-SCAG

#

I believe there was also lore in earlier editions (4e and 3.5 mostly- AD&D didn't have warlocks and implied that tieflings were more direct descendents of fiends or 'planetouched' in otherways)

ancient umbra
late storm
sharp owl
#

An aspect is a projection of a greater being

#

Like imagine you're a fish in a pond. To you the pond is the entire universe and it's impossible for anything to exist beyond it. But there are things beyond it, such as humans. A human reaches their hand into the pond to pluck a fish out; this hand would be all you perceive of the human, appearing from impossible angles. This is what an aspect is; a part of the greater whole that is projected into a plane, or across planes, to carry out the actions of the whole

snow laurel
#

Aren't they both people who get limited shapeshifting abilities because of distant werecreature ancestry?

magic jackal
#

The devil is in the details as they say, on a surface level they share many similarities but if you read those articles you'll find the finer points that distinguish them.

#

That's like saying "Well wood elves and high elves are the same cuz they're both elves", technically both elves, but not identical.

unkempt merlin
#

Shifter in their setting of origin (eberron) aren't necessarily lycanthrope descendents but in other settings they are

mortal panther
#

Shifters are from the Eberron setting and it's basically the one setting with actual lore and a place for them in the setting
Shifters are also not lycanthropes that resist their curse, they're not lycanthropes at all just thematically connected (with them either being descended from lycanthropes or lycanthropy being a corruption of shifters depending on which edition's Eberron lore you use)

unkempt merlin
#

(It's not an edition thing for eberron. It's explicitly unknown out of setting)

jagged apex
# snow laurel Aren't they both people who get limited shapeshifting abilities because of dista...

no, as it literally describes it, these quasi ones are those who resist the lycanthropy, ie they don't accept it and actively are fighting against it, shifters are like distant descendants of true lycanthropes (those born with it via their parent or parents having it) but it has diluted over generations, and to be honest, was not even aware the quasilancanthropy was even a thing until now, else shifters are largely associated with the eberron setting, though have some history in faerun as a race https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shifter

#

so the difference is one who is infected/cursed/burdened by lycanthropy that was not born with it, vs one who comes from lycanthropes to where though diluted, it is in their blood, their nature, and thus is not a curse or disease, just a fundamental aspect of who they are, thus could not be "cured" if someone were to think they were cursed and try to cure it

pine reef
cinder folio
#

Short answer yes. Long answer pending.

magic jackal
#

Hadar is a Star.

#

A Far-Realm infested Star, but still a Star.

pine reef
magic jackal
#

Hadar was a dying star, slowly burning into annihilation

#

Tis not "Star-like" tis an actual corrupted star.

pine reef
#

OK. What is a corrupted star? Like, just a celestial object infused with Far Realm magic?

magic jackal
#

Tis a Star.

#

And it's corrupted by the Far Realm.

pine reef
#

OK, then let me clarify; in D&D what is a star?

magic jackal
#

A Star is a Star.

unkempt merlin
#

Yea, they are just stars

modest badger
#

In some editions/settings stars might be giant gems imbedded into the side of a sphere (Greyspace, 2e), or holes into the radiant/positive energy plane (most other spheres, 2e spelljammer) but outside the introduction of spheres, stars are... probably just stars.

unkempt merlin
#

As of 5e at least they are just... stars. Sometimes magical in nature but still stars

modest badger
#

Spelljammer: Greyspace, 1992, 2e, p.4:

The stars that can be seen from the surface of the planets and from wildspace are actually huge, glowing, multifaceted jewels embedded somehow in the material of the sphere.
(...)
The energy source that drives the star-gems’ light remains a mystery. Presumably, there must be some connection between the jewels and some highenergy plane—possibly the plane of Radiance, the plane of Elemental Fire, or possibly even the Positive Material plane itself. Perhaps at the heart of each star-gem, deep in its crystal lattice, is a gate to this other plane, whichever one it may be. Or, perhaps the source is something very different—an energetic chemical

Spelljammer: Realmspace, 1991, 2e, p.3

A feature unique to Realmspace is the hundreds of millions of glyphs and wards that cover the inside lining of the crystal sphere.
(...)
Where the writings on the crystal shell dot, dash, and tilde themselves, the flickering of pseudo-stars shine with their everlasting light. These portals open to the quasi-elemental plane of Radiance. These radiances give the sphere’s inhabitants the illusion of twinkling stars and constellations.

Of course, both of these no longer agree with 5e lore (which doesn't even have crystal spheres)

Astral Adventure's Guide, 2022, 5e, p.4:

The Astral Plane is, quite literally, the plane of stars. More precisely, it is where the stars and portals to the heavens reside

We don't get any more information there.

However the quote the wiki is referring to is this (always worth actually looking up the citation on the wiki to see what is actually said):

Some neogi use magic-the result of a pact between the neogi and aberrant entities they met during their journey from their home world.** These entities look like stars **and embody the essence of evil. They are known by such names as Acamar, Caiphon, Gibbeth, and Hadar.
VGtM, p.179 under 'Neogi'

#

So, nothing to do with actual stars. They just.. 'look like' stars. As we know what stars look like, the rest is left to your imagination on how these dead elder evils resemble stars floating the far flung astral plane.

modest badger
#

The wiki's citations seem a bit off for 'City of torment' but here's a passage to explain what they mean when they call these beings 'stars':

Then he noticed a few stars were not like their sisters. They wavered and danced, as if their place in the heavens was unfixed. Seeing the inconstant lamps reminded Japheth of his purpose.
When he realized the irregular pinpricks of light were less like stars and more like windows piercing the sky, a tendril of nausea touched him. A fell radiance leaked from the portholes, and behind them, dread silhouettes huddled close, peering down into reality.
City of Torment, 2009, 4e, p. 219

And when he 'approaches' one such star (he's actually staring into an artifact):

Nihal writhed around the fixed space it should have maintained, it's influence pulling Japheth nearer and nearer. The moment before it sucked him in, the warlock screamed. The star's image changed from a cinder red fist to that of a humanoid-shaped hole in reality filled with writhing red maggots.

unkempt merlin
#

(In addition to the art presented for them, where they look like well. Stars)

pine reef
#

Thank you for your diligence elgate that's very useful

modest badger
#

Always worth looking into the sources cited to see what the wiki was trying to paraphrase. (Although does help when the wiki cites the correct page- looks like they used the same page citation for multiple thing on that wiki page, so likely only one is correct. Still, couldn't actually find Hadar mentioned in city of torment)

loud totem
#

What happens to a fiend that falls into Styx?

iron saffron
#

They forget.

crude blaze
#

Except for my boii Crokek’toeck

feral lintel
#

who is already pretty dumb

shadow sail
#

I got pointed to this channel, can anyone give me some recommendations on where to get lore information about villains and stuff for my campaigns? I'd prefer actual fiction and not wikis, but would take it all. So far the only fiction books I have are The Crystal Shard, Servants of the Shard, and two of the Edgreenwood Presents: Waterdeep novels.

iron saffron
#

Those are in the Forgotten Realms setting.

#

Now most of them are dead in the 5E era (about 100+ years after the events of 3E).

#

(I say most but some of whom WotC have resurrected for 5E because they don't know how to create memorable NPCs).

heady mulch
#

Lore question. Trying to find anything to broader feywild that has significance of the numbers 3 and 8. Can only find that reference in the module, wondering if they made it just for that

unkempt merlin
#

It's more just a thing that pops up in fairy mythology irl. Which a lot of feywild stuff comes from (or things that come from the feywild)

#

Especially with hags/witches

storm dagger
last scaffold
unkempt merlin
last scaffold
#

I thought Kelemvor had to reinstate it due to folks choosing to leave God worshipping in Crucible.

winged skiff
#

Heya. Can anyone tell me if there are any specific patrons for The Fathomless? I can't seem to find any

queen parrot
#

I would suggest looking into powerful entities from the Plane of Water. Things like Olhydra or Ben-hadar

#

Some powerful Kraken, or I liked someone's suggestion online of an ancient sentient ship that sank but uses its cursed power to reach out and offer its power, in exchange for...

winged skiff
#

Oh right, Hadar. How did I not think of it? Some spells carry his name lol

#

Isn't he a great old one though?

snow laurel
winged skiff
#

I'm looking for a Fathomless though. I guess Hadar is a no-go

snow laurel
#

I think the fathomless was definitely intended more as the "kraken" patron

jagged apex
winged skiff
jagged apex
# winged skiff I'm looking for a Fathomless though. I guess Hadar is a no-go

well as the flavor text describing the class says "An entity of the ocean, the Elemental Plane of Water, or another otherworldly sea now allows you to draw on its thalassic power." and "Entities of the deep that might empower a warlock include krakens, ancient water elementals, godlike hallucinations dreamed into being by kuo-toa, merfolk demigods, and sea hag covens.", so perhaps look into such entities in the lore would be my suggestion

#

like othydra would be a great example of such an entity

winged skiff
strange rose
#

an aboleth is also a good choice

oak condor
#

What is one of the elemental plane of airs lesser cities

#

Or if there is only one waht is it

#

PIng me when you reply pelase

iron saffron
iron saffron
#

That's not lore.

feral lintel
#

Theyve been multiposting across several channels

weary orchid
#

Is there any official lore on astral elves beyond the one excerpt in the spelljammer campaign

hexed mortar
#

I need some cool novel, im currently reading Dragon Lance

#

Chronicles

#

Dragons of Winter Night? I guess is The title. I don t have english version so i dont know

#

In polish its Smoki Zimowej Nocy

iron saffron
grim siren
# weary orchid Is there any official lore on astral elves beyond the one excerpt in the spellja...

There is no direct reference as the Astral Elves and Xyrixian empire appeared only in 5e. However, Elves in Spelljammer are common, and there is the Elven Imperial Fleet. The Imperial Fleet seeks to promote, as well as protect, elven interests throughout the universe, actively engaging with larger elven nations while adopting a more paternalistic attitude towards smaller elven communities scattered across wildspace who are forced to share their territories with other humanoids, especially humans.

Given that the Star Moth of the Astral elves is identical to the Imperial Fleet's Man-o-War. There must be some unsaid relationship between the two.

hexed mortar
#

Is there any good beholders?

sterile breach
proud granite
#

Does anyone know if there are non-evil GOOs for the warlock to make a deal with?

magic jackal
#

Many of the Great Old Ones are pretty close to Neutral just by virtue of how little active agency they have, or how alien their perspectives and thoughts are.

rustic roost
#

Any of them. Like they said, GOOs are just so weird and out there that good and evil don't apply. It's kinds like asking ants in a backyard if humans are evil or like your gut biome wondering if your doctor is good or evil

magic jackal
#

Not all GOO patrons to be fair, for example you have the Elder Evils which are more Evil, as one might expect.

proud granite
#

I’m running Cthulhu as trying to return to the Prime from Far Realm. The regular gods are fearful of the lost pecking order and I’m considering ways to evolve my GOO warlocks arc to a more balanced patron.

#

Tharizdun, Dender and Zargon were all labeled evil (I think). Was there anyone more neutral? I may just end up using the Turtle from Stephen King.

magic jackal
#

The Turtle from Stephen King is straight up Good lol

mild oar
#

.... it is in 2e that it happened so idk why I cannot ask

#

It is the reason Humans are even a race in D&D....

#

And part of the Second Sundering ie 5e transition. We're going into One so I am doing sumthin

#

I am betting it was the Bronze Age Collapse

iron saffron
#

What is your lore question? Your post makes no sense.

#

Why are you questioning that humans are a species D&D? That's not a lore issue.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Ao doesn't bother with non-deities.

pine reef
#

Far Realm things can kill Gods so I'd say they qualify as deity in terms of power.

iron saffron
#

They're not gods as much as archdevils and demon lords aren't gods.

#

Gods have power levels much higher than those powers from the Far Realm or the Lower Planes.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Elder evils / primordials are still not gods. Gods can be killed.

pine reef
#

I never said they were Gods, I said they have the equivalent power.

iron saffron
#

The Mind Shard of Pandorym was a CR 25 monster.

pine reef
# iron saffron The Mind Shard of Pandorym was a CR 25 monster.

Setting aside that's only a part of it, it is not really consequential is it?

To use an example: During the Time of Troubles, Lolth goes to make a bargain with a balor demon named Errtu. She is a deity, he is not. He admits that she is stronger than he, and could destroy him if she so chose. But she also admits that it would not be easy, and that he could possibly hurt her rather badly.

#

CR is gameplay rather than lore.

#

Unless I'm mistaken you taught me that. 🙂

mild oar
#

I am thinking during the Neo-Assyrian Empire ie Bronze Age Collapse ish

iron saffron
#

They brought the Egyptian (Mulhorandi) gods to Toril. They never explicity say the ethnicity of those humans but it's safe to assume they were Egyptian based upon their gods, so they could have been taken from any of the dynasties from the Old Kingdom (3000 BC) to the Hellenistic period (275 AD).

mild oar
#

Races of Faerun from 2e says they were enslaving humans and then Ao pittied them so they broke the barrier during the Spellplague to bring them over.

#

Bhaal was one so I am thinking it is during the First T when the Northern Kingdom split

tribal swift
mild oar
tribal swift
#

interesting

mild oar
#

But yeah he doesn't get involved so my char wants to ascend the Infinite Staircase and force him to get involved by letting his people go free

tribal swift
#

well thank you for the information

tribal swift
mild oar
#

Sure it may br sometime. I am still working in the char and it is gonna happen next campaign unless I can find another group

tribal swift
#

good luck

mild oar
#

Thanks

#

I have done a one-shot at level 20 and it was fun. I kept getting to yell about G-D and calling people pagans. I was in stitches

mild oar
#

What are the best languages for understanding the various deities?

So far I have: Abyssal, Celestial, Infernal, Primordial. I am on the fence about Deep Speech along with Sylvan. I think some deities might use those....

hidden current
#

since nightmares can travel ti the astral plane and shadowfell and hell could a nightmare also travel to sigil?

mild oar
#

The MM says they can only be summoned to the Lower Planes and the Outlands is a higher plane iirc

#

Actually no, I just looked at the Wheel. Yeah they can be.

#

But again they would need to be ridden there

#

What city in Faerun is the most like New York?

hidden current
mild oar
hidden current
#

ok just wondered

unkempt merlin
hidden current
unkempt merlin
#

Nightmares can't travel to the Astral or shadowfell. They can shift between the material plane and the ethereal plane

#

You cannot summon one to sigil either. The way summoning works is you summon a creature that is already in sigil. You can't summon from outside of it into it

hidden current
#
  1. you dont have to summon it you could use the figurine
pine reef
#

Gate can summon anything from any plane wherever you are.

hidden current
#
  1. they could shift to the astral and ethereal planes, as well as the Shadowfell, at will
unkempt merlin
#

They cannot

hidden current
#

under abilities

unkempt merlin
unkempt merlin
#

And that still wouldn't change what I said

#

Not to mention that Sigil isn't any of those planes anyway, so it wouldn't matter

hidden current
unkempt merlin
#

Via specific portals generally

midnight sonnet
unkempt merlin
#

With the exception of permanent teleportation circles, the Lady of Pain prevents spells and other powers from allowing anything to enter the City of Doors. That means creatures and objects from outside in the multiverse can't be summoned or conjured into Sigil by any means.

#

So other than teleportation circles and portals... you don't

lapis slate
#

And she strict with that

midnight sonnet
hidden current
#

ok got it thanks swamp

magic jackal
craggy crown
#

Are Mordenkainen and Tasha friends, rivals, or both?

lapis slate
feral lintel
#

In one of the books, they are shown playing chess with each other

craggy crown
#

Gotcha

craggy crown
feral lintel
#

I think it said that they were rivals

craggy crown
#

Okay

iron saffron
#

They're not enemies. More like respected rivals.

quaint grotto
#

Out of interest,besides mind flayers what is another big bad that could be viewed as being on the same level, if not worse?

unkempt merlin
#

Not really a lore question in terms of having them be a big bad. there are all sorts of things that could function as big bads in lore

iron saffron
#

If you need help with bad guys from your adventure then ask in #dm-discussion

#

That question is awfully vague because there are plenty of "bad guy" monsters in D&D.

quaint grotto
#

I'll move it to that chat but expand a bit!

jagged apex
quaint grotto
#

Am I just reading into it a bit too much, or why does the wiki often speak about orcs in past tense? Do they still exist?

iron saffron
#

The entire FR wiki is in the past tense.

sharp owl
#

It's a formatting decision made to ensure that the tense of the site is always coherent regardless of sources

quaint grotto
#

Cool! 👍

#

I was reading it like huh!!!!

#

Cos orcs are another species I'd like to fit into a future campaign lol

iron saffron
#

The FR wiki covers all editions' eras so there is no real "present tense."

tardy wasp
#

Why does Sharindlar have connections to the moon in her portfolio? How exactly does that association manifest? Nocturnal dwarven communities? Dwarf werewolves?!

jagged apex
#

will likely only see present tense for things that are the current status quo and have been for a while as far as we know, such as the current leader of the many arrowsa tribe

jagged apex
#

else it could be something to do with her having the moon domain in 3e which includes means of protecting against lycanthropy and in theory maybe even healing the condition/curse?, granted this is just me speculating based on what i know and otherwise am able to find

storm dagger
sharp owl
#

Forgotten Realms Wiki: Paste Tense Policy

When writing in-universe articles, the people, places, creatures, items, magic, events, etc., referred to should *always *be written in the past tense, whether the information is taken from a newly published and up-to-date product or not.

jagged apex
#

ah

gray ember
#

Is there any in-universe reason a cleric needs a diamond for resurrect? I usually hear it as a toll of sorts but I feel like dieties like Ilmater wouldn’t really ask for that

iron saffron
#

It's a gamplay mechanic so players don't "spam" the spell. Past editions didn't require it.

feral lintel
#

I like to think that its because its teaching you that life has worth.

#

but yeah

jagged apex
#

at least as i understand it

iron saffron
#

In 3.5E diamonds were required as Material components for Raise Dead (5000 gp) and Resurrection (10,000 gp) but they weren't consumed in the spells' casting.

midnight sonnet
hexed mortar
#

Best books?

midnight sonnet
tepid hamlet
#

So I know everyone hates 4e but I recall reading monster manuals for the lore and art and that there was a metaplot about the 4 Elemental Evils but I seem to recall they only made 2 a gem one and I think it was fire? Did they make all 4?

modest badger
#

Not sure about 4e, but the Elemental Evils have been a thing since 1e, so might be more around.
Ended up becoming the Archomentals- Imix (Fire), Olyhydra (Water), Ogremoch (Earth), Yan-C-Bin (Air)

#
  • Cryonax for a random additonal para-elemental (Ice) one.
tepid hamlet
modest badger
#

They (or the general concept) were introduced with the 1e module Temple of Elemental Evil, but then never actually expanded upon (Gygax was too busy to finish either the T (Temple) series or the Giants/Drow series where the Elder Elemental God/Eye first appeared, so the writers who finished those series ended up focusing on very different things). The Elemental Princes (Later Archomentals) designed by Lewis Pulpisher and added into the Fiend Folio, and they were a good fit for the ToEE concept, so later remakes and additions to that series used them as part of it.

tepid hamlet
#

isn't the temple infamously "you walk in a room everyone dies"

modest badger
#

That's more Tomb of Horrors or White Plume Mountain.
ToEE was more like one of the first 'mega dungeons'.
Really big, lots of rooms, lots of enemies.

#

Dungeon #199 btw had Olyhydra and Yan-C-Bin for 4e, while Monster Manual 3 had Imix and Ogremoch.

#

For 5e, Princes of the Apocolypse is a spiritual remake of the ToEE series, in that you're trying to stop the cult of Elemental Evil from doing evil.

pine reef
#

If Tiamat is imprisoned in Hells how could her mortal cultists nearly summon her in Faerun?

tepid hamlet
#

teleporting xD

pine reef
#

So, Asmodeus couldn't account for teleporting?

tepid hamlet
#

eh?

spark haven
#

If you're looking for internal consistency, you've come to the wrong neighborhood

pine reef
#

Asmodeus is the one that keeps her imprisoned because she serves a purpose in Avernus. A Greater Deity and Asmodeus cannot counteract teleportation? He has no wards/contingencies for it?

pine reef
tepid hamlet
#

I feel this a rather deep rabbit hole to go into and just take an entire thesis to explain

spark haven
#

It's not done out of malice. part of it is the fact that there's been hundreds and hundreds of different authors over multiple decades. Part of it is that these things aren't describing the rules of an internally consistent world, they're the setup for adventurers to do cool stuff

modest badger
#

In the particular adventure this can be done in (HotDQ so on) they do explain certain aspects, but those are adventure spoilers.

#

But part of the loopholes include things like mortal aid, and that the summoning can fail and so on.

spark haven
#

Yeah. When the adventure calls for it, the author invents a loophole

modest badger
#

Like it's a whole adventure/plot that they manage/ try to break her out.

#

So it's not just a simple case of casting gate or the like.

#

Nonetheless, best go to adventure spoilers to discuss that more

pine reef
last scaffold
pine reef
#

thanks

jagged apex
#

but far as i am aware it confirms him for the 5e continuity as still being around

last scaffold
#

Minsc and Boo's Journal of Villainy I believe.

jagged apex
#

that is another book, in a similar case

jagged apex
modest badger
#

Well Random in that he is the only paraelemental one. The ToEE modules only had fire, water, earth, air, and those were the main elements in 1e. Cryonax just didn't fit, and no other para-elemental ones were really introduced and even for cryonax it's more 'eh, guess he's the only paraelemental one who was powerful enough?'

but more a result of someone making the Elemental Princes for other purposes (not even for ToEE) then being made to fit ToEE and the concept of elemental evil, so Cryonax got ousted.

Lewis Pulsipher, creator of the Elemental Princes, Jeffro's Space Gaming blog interview:

My monsters got into the Fiend Folio in a simple way. There was a general call for submissions, but I wasn’t interested. I’d submitted some monsters to White Dwarf magazine (and they’d already used some I wrote). I was in the Games Workshop offices one day (I also designed their first boardgame) and Steve or Ian asked me if they could use some of the monsters in FF. I said, OK, if I get a free copy. I didn’t think any more about it until the FF appeared. It’s nice to have my name in it, even though it tends to silly monsters (Don Turnbull’s point of view, that, he was the editor).

I used many of the monsters in my own play, but not the Princes of EE. My campaigns were relatively low level, someone who reached 10 or 11th level was extraordinary – but not really up to the Princes. So as far as I know I made them up just for the heck of it.

jagged apex
#

is a shame the book they decided to reintroduce him in, Cryonax would have been very thematic for the elemental evil frost giant cultists we got examples of in bigby's

#

like i doubt they will use him in major books so long as the one that he is reintroduced in remains a dms guild exclusive

gilded burrow
#

Just wanted some clarification, is Eberron a sphere in the prime material plane

dreamy aurora
#

Does a Dhampire have a soul?

iron saffron
#

Dhampir aren't Undead or dead. They're still living Humanoids so they have souls.

sharp owl
unkempt merlin
#

If the progenitors were actual beings yea

shell gale
#

lore channel friends, help plz! xD

Where are pyramids or similar-like objects in the forgotten realms area etc

iron saffron
#

Port Nyanzaru has a few pyramids in the outer edges of the city.

shell gale
iron saffron
feral lintel
#

Yeah, they kinda just sticking with less than 10% of the whole world

shell gale
#

ah fair enough

#

would that area be consistent with this statement

"The Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide,
and any Wizards of the Coast 5e adventure or Starter Set that
occurs in a location within the Forgotten Realms can be used.
Other Forgotten Realms Campaign setting sources published
on the DMsGuild may also be used as long as they do not
contradict official products."

Since I assume at some point Raurin was a "Forgotten realms campaign setting source"?

feral lintel
#

Could have been. I know that I put my campaign on a different continent in the same world as Faerun

shell gale
#

I know this is getting into specific AL territory and since its about AL I should ask#al-admin-questions , but just looking for general info that I could use in future stuff and also ways to possibly plan my other stories.

iron saffron
#

The Sword Coast is in the northwest corner of Faerun. Raruin is in the eastern edges of Faerun near the Hordelands (east of Mulhorand and the Eastern Shar).

feral lintel
#

Oh, looks like I need to connect my continent somewhere else then

iron saffron
#

Raruin is the desert inbetween Faerun and Kara-tur.

feral lintel
#

Huh, it looks like earth

#

except a bit warped

iron saffron
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Because Ed Greenwood kinda designed it that way. Well, the continents of Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, Osse, Anchorome and Katashaka were added by TSR/WotC after Ed Greenwood sold the rights.

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There's little to no lore on Osse, Anchorome and Katashaka.
Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica had 2E campaign settings.

proud granite
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Ascore had 13 red ones

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Anauroch and Calimport were 2 sourcebooks I can recall that had desert settings for 2e. I was researching where to run Desert of Desolation adapted for 5e

soft silo
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Is it normal in forgotten realms for people to worship multiple gods?

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Say, for instance, an artificer (artificer in lore, not a player character) that worships both Gond and Primus

iron saffron
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Yes. People pay respects to many gods. Clerics and paladins often are dedicated to just one deity though.
If a merchant of Tymora is travelling by sea, she'll say a prayer to Umberlee to ask for a safe trip by ship.

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Primus is not a deity.

soft silo
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you just shocked my entire reality

iron saffron
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If a Primus dies a Secondus is chosen to replace him. Primus is more of a title than a single entity.

soft silo
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Who is the god of true order and law in that case?

iron saffron
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Which setting?

soft silo
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forgotten realms

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after the second sundering

iron saffron
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There are many LN gods in various settings and pantheons.

soft silo
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Is there not a god whose portfolio is law and order?

iron saffron
soft silo
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It's kinda weird that the realm of pure order and law is ruled by a being that isn't really a god

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I figured that the being creating and sending inevitables to hunt down people who break celestial contracts would be a god

cinder folio
rustic roost
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Law and order are covered by essentially a near perfectly functioning bureaucracy my way of the modrones

shell gale
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MFW Sending stones/sending only let you do a 25 word or less message once, not two way communication back and forth repeatedly.....any way to remedy that besides just saying "enhanced Sending Stone?"

sharp owl
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This channel is for discussing lore, not game mechanics

modest badger
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Not really lore, but that is Def the rules on sending stones. I don't recall other "official" sending stones type items with more uses off the top of my head. #homebrew might be able to help?

soft silo
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I've got a 2 part question

  • Assuming someone was able to create undead automatons by way of magic powered machinery, would they be considered undead or constructs?
  • Would it be physically possible to create a machine that siphons magical energy from the weave? I feel like Mystra would just make the machine not work or something.
spark haven
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would they be considered undead or constructs
I mean, you're kinda getting into Ship of Theseus here. How many body parts have to be replaced with actuators and pistons before it stops being whatever it was before?

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You'd pick the creature type based on the tone you want to set, and how you want spells/features to interact with these creatures