#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 38 of 1

sinful pasture
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I have a concept of a hexblade warlock whose a battlefield medic n specializes in blood letting and is so dedicated to the craft that he was made a warlock and his abilities n stuff flavored as being blood or looking blood esc

grim siren
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Afflux, the Bloodfather, the Unsatisfied Questioner, the Bloodspiller. (Neutral Evil)

Libras Mortis, 3.5 pg.16

tardy wasp
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What makes Sehanine specifically the god of mysticism in the elven pantheon? The Seldarine religion as a whole seems pretty mystical, and the lore I've read about gods like Corellon and Labelas suggests they offer their faithful some pretty profound spiritual experiences.

iron saffron
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Corellon is the god of magic. Elves are highly associated with magic.

stable gulch
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what is old for an eladrin elf? it says it is not uncommon for them to live for millennia(I just googled it so take that as you will)

he is old enough to the point that what he thinks are normal history books are called ancient tomes

Im fine with switching to any elf type but i would really like his age to be great
any suggestions?

jagged apex
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which kind?

modest badger
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In 5e, I'd assume PC race, Eladrin Elf

jagged apex
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there is at least 2 that could fit as elf eladrin

modest badger
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Rather than Fey or Celestial

jagged apex
stable gulch
stable gulch
jagged apex
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yeah as from what i can find their lifespan is not different at least not in the forgotten realms and i don't recall it being said to be any different in monsters of the muliverse

modest badger
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From MPMM:

Like other elves, eladrin can live to be over 750 years old.

jagged apex
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i'd say old would probably be around the 700+ mark

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though they are not gunna be the same sort of old as say a human or even a dragon

stable gulch
jagged apex
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some wrinkles maybe, but otherwise just as healthy and lively as years past

modest badger
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Not sure if 5e has ever touched on age categories for humanoids. Earlier editions did, but then ages for species change pretty drastically between editions at times as well so aren't easily compared.

jagged apex
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best sort of idea would be to see if we have any characters in the lore of that race that are reffered to as being elders of some sort

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otherwise just kind of need to speculate based on what we do have in general

stable gulch
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im very indecisive, can one of you possibly just shoot me a number

modest badger
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But if you wanted to take 3.5 as a guideline, elves could also live to 750 but were middle age at 175 years, Old at 263 year, and venerable at 350 years

stable gulch
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that breaks it down a lil better

jagged apex
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and technically 5e does not contradict that, it just does not detail it past when they mature and when they die of old age

modest badger
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Weirdly specific 'old' age start dndLol

stable gulch
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he wants to add more weapons to his list of the "new" age

jagged apex
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so that older lore could at least for now, since there is a slight chance we might get lore on the topic in the future, can slot right in

stable gulch
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writing his own book

jagged apex
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though i imagine for elves, venerable would be what we humans would call old/elderly in comparison

stable gulch
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mmhmm

modest badger
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Aging effects for elves also depends a lot on edition. 5e Volo's did have lore on that at least.

jagged apex
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either way "old" different has some different context for elves compared to humans

stable gulch
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true

modest badger
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*Mordenkainen's, not Volo's sorry

stable gulch
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just throw a number at me above 750 and ill take it

jagged apex
modest badger
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Ah, okay so Tome of Foes does have slightly different age brackets, give me a sec.

stable gulch
modest badger
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Childhood 0-25ish
Adolescence starts 20-30: "Most elves experience their First Reflection in their second or third decade."
Adulthood at around 100: "The Drawing of the Veil marks an elf's passage into adulthood, which typically occurs at the end of the first century of life." ,
Elder at around 300-400: "Most elves undergo this experience [Revelation] in their third or fourth century. Elves who led extremely active and dangerous lives, such as adventurers, seem to be affected earlier than those who pursue more sedate occupations. Notably, elves who have been revived from death by magical means seem to experience their first other-life memory earlier than they otherwise might." And could live for normal as decades, but eventually it takes it's toll.

Most elves don't age outwardly as other humanoids do. The skin of adults remains smooth, their hair does not gray, and their bones do not ache. Even the oldest elves look similar in age to a human of perhaps 30 years.

Yet there is one sure sign that an elf is nearing the end of life: cataracts in the shape of crescents, points down, that appear over the pupils of both eyes when the elf is in trance.

stable gulch
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Age i was givin was 856

modest badger
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This lore might be subject to change as the book it's in is marked legacy and has some philosophies 5e might change on, so use as you feel best.

stable gulch
stable gulch
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there are schools in faerun right

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there has to be

iron saffron
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Sure.

stable gulch
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now would they be working together enough to have an assosiation for education?

iron saffron
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Which city state/nation?

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Faerun is a continent remember

stable gulch
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let me go look, but it would be in the forgotten realms if that is an answer to one of those
something elven

iron saffron
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The Forgotten Realms is the campaign setting.
Faerun is a continent set in the Forgotten Realms setting.

stable gulch
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oh

stable gulch
iron saffron
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You need to be specific with your question.

stable gulch
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correct, my apologies

iron saffron
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You're asking about an entire continent on a specific thing.

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Vague question gives you a vague answer, if any.

stable gulch
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fair

jagged apex
stable gulch
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tysm

iron saffron
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That's your vague answer.

stable gulch
obsidian gate
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soo I wanted to include Orcs from the Kingdom of Many Arrows in my next game and was very disappointed to find out they are essentially gone and the whole "Orc Kingdom that can peacefully coexist" thing has been thrown into the trash for a "lol no, they were always evil and needed to be wiped out"

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very dissapointing, especially since they apparently went down as a sidekick in some drow plot against drizzt?

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its so weird how early 5e Lore went back to be less progressive than 4e and even much of 3e stuff

iron saffron
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When did the Kingdom of Many Arrows revert back to being aggressive? Obould Many-Arrows made peace treaties with the humans and dwarves of the Spine of the Earth back in 3E.

obsidian gate
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in the Companions Codex Series

iron saffron
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Oh the Drizzt novels.

obsidian gate
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well they are the source of almost all many arrows lore

iron saffron
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Well, this isn't the channel for me to complain about Drizzt staying past his 15 minutes...

hollow tartan
obsidian gate
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well these names have been around for quite some time

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
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seems they became agressive again cuz the peaceful king had been dethroned, but by the end of it they were able to reinsert him, they are simply no long a kingdom, but still a powerful tribe, and they were reduced to that state because of Bruenor losing faith in the idea of orcs coexisting in the silver marshes

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so if anything they potentially are just large enough and engrained enough to be a kingdom anymore currently and are in a different part of faerun

jagged apex
obsidian gate
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I mean its possible that there is more nuance here but the summary of the book that I read is that everyone of the "good guys" more or less agreed that the peace treaty was a bad idea because "orcs cant change their ways"

jagged apex
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no

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that was all bruenor specifically

obsidian gate
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have you read the books?

jagged apex
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at least according to what is written and sited on the wiki, which at least seems more reasonable than all the companions being so closeminded

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and seems the conflict was between him and his dwarves vs the many arrows, so that is likely why his view wound up deciding their fate in that event

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but from what i am seeing there is nothing that cements them as being aggressive again in 5e, is ambiguous it seems and they very much could still be trying to live peacefully, just in another part of the world

iron saffron
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Another reason for Drizzt and his friends to retire (even after being dead they're back!)

jagged apex
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honestly, i'd chalk this up still specifically to bruenor

obsidian gate
jagged apex
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as it seems drizzt's role was mainly informing the dwarves of the politics behind why they were being violent again at the time

obsidian gate
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the group soon discussed how war between the Silver Marches and the orc kingdom of Many-Arrows seemed inevitable. The companions understood that the signing of the Treaty of Garumn's Gorge in 1372 DR had been a mistake and that the goblinkin races such as orcs were inherently evil and always needed to be combated.

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could be wrong info I guess

jagged apex
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looking at things, that book is set 1 year before what i was referencing

grim siren
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I checked SCAG and RotFM and Rime calls the Many Arrows a Tribe and SCAG map still lists the Many Arrows Kingdom

jagged apex
obsidian gate
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well sure but if the main group knew the other guy, why would they make such broad statements, and also why would they dismantle the whole kingdom and the keep once he (Lorgru) is in charge again?

jagged apex
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cuz they likely did not know at the time

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"The peace and stability of Many-Arrows fell into disarray in the Year of the Awakened Sleepers, 1484 DR, when the drow Quenthel Baenre incited the orcs into war. The orc Hartusk, a known detractor of Obould's peaceful methodology, took control of the Kingdom of Many-Arrows when Lorgru, the son of Obould XVII, was framed for the assassination of his father. Hartusk began to conquer large portions of Luruar, from Nesmé and Sundabar, and laid siege to the great dwarven strongolds of Mithral Hall, Citadel Felbarr, and Citadel Adbar. The tide of the battle turned however, when Bruenor Battlehammer rallied the dwarven forces, and began to crush the opposition."

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plus the dude was framed

grim siren
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Dark Arrow Keep is dismantled and Lorgru and the orcs of Many-Arrows are banished into the Spine of the World by the combined forces of the three dwarven kingdoms, the elves of the Glimmerwood, and the humans of the Silver Marches. Bruenor Battlehammer immediately sets his eye on recapturing Gauntlgrym (with Drizzt Do'Urden and Catti-brie, of course). Jarlaxle offers Athrogate and Ambergris as agents of Bregan D'aerthe and fellow dwarves willing to aid in the struggle.

Source: Archmage by R.A Salvatore a 5e era novel

This tracks with the Many Arrows Orcs in Rime of the Frost Maiden

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The many arrow Orcs in Rime are listed as tribal not a full kingdom

jagged apex
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if they are working with 3 dwarven kingdom's that seems pretty not hostile to me

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yeah so they are mainly just relocated and low in numbers

grim siren
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Which means per the novel line the map in scag is out of date lmaoooooooo

jagged apex
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probably makes sense since scag was long before rime came out, probably another reason why they made it no longer apart of the current continuity/official

iron saffron
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SCAG was written by Green Ronin not WotC.

grim siren
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Which does make a discrepancy that is fun to think about.

SCAG is set in 1489 DR

Rime is set in 1489 DR

Archmage is also set around 1485 DR

So the map in SCAG is not even accurate for the state of the world then. Personally since Many Arrows is only mentioned on the Map at the front of SCAG I would merely list that as where many arrows was and not is.

obsidian gate
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well there are still many arrows orcs in the spine of the world mountains, so I guess the map isnt totally inaccurate

jagged apex
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i was talking about the real world years released, but yeah, scag was flawed by at least way of that bit of content, so probably for the best it is no longer considered official

grim siren
iron saffron
# grim siren Which does make a discrepancy that is fun to think about. SCAG is set in 1489 D...

https://alphastream.org/index.php/2020/04/09/the-official-timeline-for-the-forgotten-realms-and-its-adventures/

Note on Hotenow as an incorrect source: In the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, the date of Mount Hotenow’s eruption seems in error. This likely caused errors in the dates of other products as the references fed on each other or on a common internal design source. Speaking with Scott Fitzgerald Gray, who has worked on these products, he believes the Hotenow-derived dates are incorrect.

grim siren
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Scratch that Old man is right.

Rime is also set in 1489 DR. Both Scag and Rime are same year

And Archmage directly states the winter of 1485 and also mentions the new year so 1485-1486 are accurate

pine reef
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How many worshippers one deity has to have to rise in divine rank? Like how many worshippers a quasi-deity have, lesser deity, intermediary deity, and greater deity have respectively?

unkempt merlin
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Setting?

iron saffron
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From 3E Deities & Demigods, Ranks of Divine Power section (page 25):
Demigod/quasi-power has a few hundred to a few thousand worshippers
Lesser deity has a few thousand to tens of thousands of worshippers
Intermediate deity has hundreds of thousands of mortal worshippers
Greater deity has millions of mortal worshippers

pine reef
pine reef
thick trout
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Is there any lore for stone Giants that would prevent them from being protectors of a bunch of Harengon? Like village guardians?

iron saffron
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That's awfully specific...

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Harengon don't even have lore so I think you're safe to make it up (as per WotC's design philosophy for 5E)

plucky kernel
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I’ve been really curious about the whole second-generation bhaalspawn thing

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When a bhaalspawn also has a kid and what if that offspring then also has a kid?

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They’re is potentially a whole bunch of family trees full of part bhaalspawn over time who may never know if that part of their lineage faded away

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Am I right on that?

thick trout
iron saffron
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Harengon are very recent to D&D so there wouldn't be anything that specific in regards to stone giants. Harengon don't even have lore to themselves.

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tl;dr You the DM make it up.

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Stone giants keep to themselves.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Stone_giant#Relationships

Animal domestication was not common among them, though many were known to raise colonies of giant bats as a warning system and source of food. While others have been seen in the company of giant goats and cave bears. Out of all animals they considered purple worms to be the greatest of pests, since they could effortlessly burrow through their homes and destroy prized carvings

jagged apex
# iron saffron That's awfully specific...

and more so that they did not exist until 5e and far as i know no lore on the two pits them against each other, but they normally would be unlikely to live in the same environment

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also what we do have for haregon is them migrating from the feywild from which they are native

iron saffron
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That's what I said. 5E has been very light on new lore with little to nothing on the new playable races introduced.

jagged apex
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i could see maybe do to their keen senses of hearing that harengon living along side stone giants could have a symbiotic relationship where the harengon would be able to warn the giants prematurely of any approaching purple worms so they could attempt to protect their prized carvings, but otherwise not much reason for the 2 to live together in the published lore outside of abnormal cases such as an exiled giant for example

jagged apex
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so other than a "biological" connection to their god, is ambiguous

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i say biological in quotes, as being he has not been mortal for long time and technically still is a god, all be it very weak, he is likely as other gods are more, a metaphysical being rather than one made of flesh, bone, dna, ect...

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though technically a thing in the wider dnd lore, is mainly explored via the baldur's gate games that they often are featured in

plucky kernel
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So basically, it’s not entirely known how these ‘second generation bhaalspawn’ work and just how connected to their divine ancestor they would be

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Power wise

jagged apex
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basically, an in universe excuse to make it up as you go

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only real hard thing is it would have to make at least some sense to someone related to the literal god of ritualistic murder

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though i'd imagine divine blood dilutes over generations, as is the case with the giant progenitors and the giants that now live on worlds like toril, those long life spans are at least to my understanding that divine blood that gave their progenitors immortality in terms of lifespans, was made finite and reduced over generations

formal sable
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I'm casting about for a reason why the High Road between Waterdeep and Neverwinter is so named. I've looked at several sources, and no mention. Before I make something up, anyone have any ideas?

jagged apex
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since is the forgotten realms, if not detailed in published material, assuming there is a reason behind the name, ed greenwood would likely know, as he created the forgotten realms setting

spark haven
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it's a relatively common term

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the high road, the one that's nice to travel on and cared for by the state. as opposed to the low roads

buoyant gorge
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Hey guys can you help me identify a God I'm looking for

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I don't remember his name

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They're a True Neutral Alignment and their Domain is Order, I think. And they're like mechanical and have like.. lots of orbs I think.

iron saffron
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Which campaign setting?

neon pumice
buoyant gorge
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I don't remember that's the hard part

iron saffron
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Primus is LN

eager bay
buoyant gorge
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OH I GOT THE ALIGNMENT WRONG

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ITS PRIMUS

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thanks

iron saffron
neon pumice
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thought so

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definitely sounded like some modron business

buoyant gorge
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Honestly I would love to see a true neutral deity centered around order

eager bay
buoyant gorge
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There aren't any so it seems

neon pumice
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that wld be really cool

jagged apex
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primus technically is not a god it seems though is included among them in the filtering of lawful neutral deities in the forgotten realms, at least on the wiki, he technically is a greater power, at least according to the forgotten realms wiki https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Primus

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didn't tyr use to be part of a sort of trinity of justice?

iron saffron
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Primus is god-like but not a deity. Primus can be killed (and has been) and be replaced by a Secondus when he's killed.

jagged apex
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though honestly, if enough people started to worship him i imagine he could become a proper deity

iron saffron
jagged apex
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granted lord Ao would still need to approve him, but i can think of little reason why he would not, unless it was an imposter, which to my knowledge orcus/tenebrous was the only one to ever do so and that was a while ago

iron saffron
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Because there isn't ONE Primus. It's just a title.

It's like president of a country, they get replaced every so often.

jagged apex
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fair

jagged apex
jagged apex
iron saffron
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The Triad are all LG, so they represent different aspects of LG -- law and justice (Tyr), mercy and compassion (Ilmater), and loyalty and duty (Torm).

buoyant gorge
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So what is the specifics of a Monk?
What does it mean to be a monk in DnD?

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Usually when I think of a Monk I'm usually under the assumption that they are a religious ascetic who is discipline in martial arts and believes they derive powers and abilities that surpass general human capability because of their religious adherence.

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Although I think the proper term for this is "Mystic"

jagged apex
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despite what the UA seems to be dead set on currently framing them, they are more than simple warriors

iron saffron
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D&D classes aren't really lore.

jagged apex
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they are more so ruled by philosophy rather than religion, granted some can be, but often it is more so philosophy

buoyant gorge
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Hmmm

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Yeah no that's not what I've known monks to be

buoyant gorge
jagged apex
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well, that is what they are in dnd, at least those we would call monks and use with the class, at least as i understand it

buoyant gorge
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Well when I start in my friends campaign I will work on incorporating my characters religion into his "monkhood"
But yes.
This is a character discussion thing

jagged apex
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they are effectively martial artists, ala early dragonball

iron saffron
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If you want to ask about specific monk orders with a specifc god then that's lore-related.

jagged apex
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yeah otherwise anything else would be better discussed in a different channel such as #character-discussion

iron saffron
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But discussing the class itself isn't #dnd-lore related

buoyant gorge
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okay
Pardon me I'm just trying to get used to the server way 😅

jagged apex
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well according to the forgotten realms wiki it is also a term and they have a culture, so there are some elements of lore there depending on what you are talking about

iron saffron
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No worries.

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Classes don't have culture. Classes are gameplay mechanics.

jagged apex
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so unlike say ranger i can't entirely blame them for thinking lore might be a place where they could ask

iron saffron
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That's more of their monastic traditions than "culture."

jagged apex
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either way, in the case of monks, i can see why they might have thought to ask in lore

buoyant gorge
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So if Primus is not a God then what is he exactly?

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Some kind of Principle?

iron saffron
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A greater power not unlike an archdevil or demon prince.

jagged apex
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he is a god like being but not a proper deity, he is a greater power that rules the modrons and their hive mind

buoyant gorge
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Oh

iron saffron
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Again, Primus stands apart because it's more of title than a singular unique entity. If a Primus is killed (such as by Orcus) than a Secondus will replace him and become a new Primus.

jagged apex
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powers are basically those who have power comparable to a god, but are not proper/true deities

buoyant gorge
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Sounds cool

jagged apex
buoyant gorge
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Right?

iron saffron
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Deities get their divine power from having worshippers, powers like archdevils and demon lords don't (although they want more power by wanting to become deities)

buoyant gorge
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"Primus is Dead, Long live Primus"

jagged apex
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primus is like the hive mind for the modrons, which all the modrons basically being very intelligent drones, they are all connected in a sort of network, with primus at the core of it

buoyant gorge
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Sounds badass

jagged apex
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he is certainly interesting, but i would be hestiant to say badass as he is essentially an entity of pure order, hense why he is lawful neutral and resides on the plane of that alignment where he is able to be at his full power

buoyant gorge
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Entity of Pure Order 😳

jagged apex
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and often what most of us think of as badass are not exactly orderly

buoyant gorge
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My heart skipped a beat

iron saffron
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Orcus disrupted the hive mind by murdering Primus and caused the Great Modron March to start years early. There was a 2E Planescape module about that.

jagged apex
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like we are talking about law so pure that it can be broken down to pure mathmatics

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and is picked up in 5e too

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am hesitant to clerify as it could be considered an adventure spoiler

buoyant gorge
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(I came here from the TES community)

jagged apex
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honestly this pure mathematical law and order is part of a neat ability in the lore of modrons that is not necessarily reflected mechanically last i checked in 5e, where they can see through things like illusions, basically looking at the source code of reality

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which can make a rogue modron or otherwise one that is alone that you may ally with for a time a helpful ally

jagged apex
buoyant gorge
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Elder scrolls

jagged apex
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ah

iron saffron
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Why would you come here for that?

buoyant gorge
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No I mean I came FROM there

jagged apex
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well, dnd has some similarities but plenty more differences

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to my knowledged elder scrolls is rooted in the devs being dnd fans and even players

buoyant gorge
iron saffron
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D&D is the granddaddy of RPGs so there willl be influences of D&D in other RPGs such as Elder Scrolls.

jagged apex
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heck i could easily see it being a setting in the dnd multiverse, likely would be self-contained in terms of cosmology

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but i think we may be getting off topic ^^;

buoyant gorge
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I am kinda sad that there are no Gods similar to Primus

iron saffron
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Depends on the setting.

buoyant gorge
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I am unsure which setting my DM is using

jagged apex
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could always ask them

buoyant gorge
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True

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I'm unsure if I even want to continue with D&D as a whole.
I always try but I can't get into it because it's just alot for some reason.

jagged apex
buoyant gorge
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Oh

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But Overgods don't make good patrons do they?

iron saffron
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Overgods don't have mortal worshippers. They deal with the gods instead.

buoyant gorge
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They tend to be deistic creators or too busy

buoyant gorge
jagged apex
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but gods in eberron are a lot different than other settings in dnd as they are not known factual beings that are an obvious truth of their reality, is lot more faith and philosophy based more or less

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which kind of ties into how divine magic works in eberron, where rather than coming from a god, it is from the faith of the caster

buoyant gorge
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You see I don't think I wanna do religion in dnd if I'm just gonna have to fetch quests for a magical scumbag

unkempt merlin
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Aureon isn't considered an overgod

jagged apex
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not saying he is

unkempt merlin
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He's just considered the leader of the Sovereign Host

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(Which is only one of the pantheons in eberron)

jagged apex
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i was presenting what i could find to examples of gods like primus in other known settings

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and yes, i know primus is not technically a god

jagged apex
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plus i wouldn't call the gods magical scumbags, or scumbags in general, granted some gods might fit the bill

buoyant gorge
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I've been told that Gods are for the most part condescending

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They act as if you're constantly wasting their time

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That sort of thing

jagged apex
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well that is likely just do to the inherent differnece in perspective between a mortal being and an extra planar being

feral lintel
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Fairly sure Illmater isnt a scumbag

jagged apex
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and some gods are known to be much more compassionate and sympathetic to mortals, illmater is a great example, as is bahamut

feral lintel
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The latter for that one takes several human forms and goes around as an adventurer

jagged apex
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and is rather humble and kind, and often said human form is an elderly man, not some glamorous fancy looking person

buoyant gorge
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Hmm

feral lintel
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Then Ilmater is just suffering in silence somewhere

jagged apex
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the most fancy looking avatar/aspect i know bahamut to have is Fizban

buoyant gorge
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Not to fond of "jerk" God or "nice" God trope either. I think I'm just being picky tho.

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I want to avoid a bunch of corny tropes.

jagged apex
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the gods are just as nuanced as mortals

feral lintel
jagged apex
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just on a grander scale

feral lintel
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Nice or jerk gods arent tropes. Thats just gods being gods

jagged apex
feral lintel
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I dont know man, he has rather nice drip

jagged apex
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granted that platinum scarf is pretty fancy

feral lintel
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indeed

jagged apex
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and again the gods are living intelligent beings, just like mortals, just cuz their nature is more metaphysical and their perspective is different does not mean the gods in dnd are any less human

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in fact a lot of the time their actions, goals, ect.. can be very human like, just again to a grander scale and thus effects much more people

buoyant gorge
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That's true

jagged apex
#

heck the time of troubles was basically the divine equivalent of Ao having enough of the gods of realm space's bratty behavior and wanted to teach them to care about their followers

buoyant gorge
#

What

feral lintel
#

Ao's a overgod or something right?

iron saffron
#

One of the reasons for Time of Trouble drama (other than the Tablets of Fate being stolen by Bane and Myrkul ) was that Ao smacked down the gods to mortal form to remind them to pay attention to their mortal worshippers.

feral lintel
#

ah ic ic

buoyant gorge
#

Why does Ao care about caring?
If I was the Prime being in all of existence there would be little reason for me to do anything but sit there.

jagged apex
#

he literally confined all the gods of realmspace, that were not also worshiped in other settings, to be confined to avatars, effectively making them mortal, and have to live among there mortal followers

#

basically it boils down to the gods not really do their jobs which in part involved keeping an eye on and caring for the mortals

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

He was telling them to take care of their pets better

iron saffron
#

This was a narrative means when 2E introduced avatars and redesigned the magic system (kinda since 2E was essentially a patch to 1E).

jagged apex
#

only god not punished was Helm, as he basically already was doing his duty to a the letter

feral lintel
#

Huh

#

just him? i was expecting more of the LG and LNs to also have been spared

jagged apex
#

shown even more so when despite not wanting to, he punch mystral i think it was, which ever version of mystra it was, to death with a single punch to prevent her from returning prematurely to the realms of the gods before the tablets of fate were returned

feral lintel
#

Gods Mystra has been through a lot

jagged apex
feral lintel
#

Ah ic ic

buoyant gorge
#

I think I will not worry about lore and gods and making an interesting character
For my first campaign I will just make a human warrior who is just a voiceless avatar and extension of my actual self.
Kind of just like a video game protagonist.

feral lintel
#

I mostly just have the real world mythos gods and a few of my own in my setting, but thats not the channel for that

jagged apex
#

cited from the wiki as being from "volo's guide to all thing magical"
"with a catastrophic explosion in the skies above Castle Kilgrave, north of Arabel. Following Mystra's death, Helm shed a single tear that fell to Toril, but stopped before hitting ground. Hovering over the crater of destruction left below, the teardrop appeared as a magnificent gemstone, filled with the torment and guilt that Helm felt inside."

#

if that does not show gods like helm to be like us humans, then far as i am concerned you are just being heartless

feral lintel
#

Personally, i like to think of it as the mortal races being more like them

jagged apex
#

well i feel it makes sense since the outer planes and the beings in them, gods included are created or at least influenced by the believes and thoughts of the people on the prime material plane

feral lintel
#

Aye.

#

and most of the races are creations of gods anyway

#

they're bound to get some of their gods traits

jagged apex
#

like the tabaxi

feral lintel
#

or the orcs

#

and probably the elves

jagged apex
#

at least with their latest 5e lore regarding their creation across the multiverse

buoyant gorge
#

Also when I said like Primus, I meant like "Someone whose Domain is like a polarizing sense of total certainty, order as in the law of sequence itself, mathematical precision to the utmost and beyond oppressive extent"

#

It seems like only Primus fits the bill

feral lintel
#

I'd try looking at other LN gods too

jagged apex
#

oh, yeah, at least in the realms, elves are literally decendance from their god's blood, primordial elves were basically angels/mini corellons

pine reef
#

I'm confused, did Orcus become a God or did he not? It suggests that he did but lost it due to apathy. What was he a God off? Also, it seems to be me based on his lore that he's on another league above other Demon Princes in terms of power.

iron saffron
#

Orcus was never a god*

(* a couple of demon lords were lesser deities in 2E Monster Mythology but that was quickly retconned aftewards)

#

Orcus is a powerful demon lord but not as powerful as Demogorgon. He vies for the title of Prince of Demons so the two demon princes have fought bitterly over the centuries.

glossy salmon
#

I have a lore question on FR. What's the difference between Orcus and Myrkul, as both are gods/patrons concerned with the undead? One's a god, one isn't, but does the conflicting domains incite animosity? Kinship?

feral lintel
#

Orcus is a demon lord

#

Myrkul is a (lesser) god

#

as for their relationship... not really sure

#

Myrkul also is more about rot than just general undead

glossy salmon
#

One of my PCs is a warlock of Myrkul (I think it makes sense since Myrkul's a quasideity..) but I'm thinking about whether Myrkul would want to put other undead not raised by his followers to rest

#

Of course in the end it comes down to what I wanna do and what makes a cool story... but I guess it's hard to play two gods (practically) and consider their relationships

feral lintel
#

Orcus isnt a god btw

glossy salmon
#

yes

#

I am aware

#

practically a god, as far as I'm concerned

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

Demonlords are not as the same level as gods

glossy salmon
#

yes I am aware

#

hmm

iron saffron
feral lintel
#

Well, Myrkul used to be a necromancer, so he likes undead

iron saffron
#

He's a god first and foremost.

glossy salmon
#

plus he wanted to play a warlock :)

glossy salmon
iron saffron
#

Perhaps #character-discussion would be better suited place to ask then if this is about your character development.

glossy salmon
#

It's not

#

I'm asking about the relationship between Orcus and Myrkul, from a lore perspective. It's not really related to the character.

iron saffron
#

They have no relationship. One's a former god of death (who's now just a quasi-power after losing his divine power/status after being killed) and the other is a demon lord of undeath. They have their own agendas that don't cross.

feral lintel
#

I dont think Orcus even acknowledges the Dead Three

iron saffron
#

Death =/= undeath. They're two differently divine portfolios.

jagged apex
glossy salmon
#

Myrkul makes great use of the undead, as well.

jagged apex
glossy salmon
#

Obviously, different portfolios, but to imagine no relationship seems a little silly. Definitely animosity, in my mind.

iron saffron
#

Myrkul lost most of his followers after his death.

jagged apex
#

not every god of death uses undead, just often you see those that do more than not

#

and in cases like the raven queen, they despise undead, aside from those that are loyal to her

glossy salmon
glossy salmon
#

this is cool

jagged apex
glossy salmon
#

lmao good good point

iron saffron
glossy salmon
#

I think Myrkul wanting to put undead that Orcus raised, put to rest could make a cool warlock request then. Thanks guys!

jagged apex
#

it also makes sense as presumably the death of undead might be considered an action of death and thus give power to a god of death

#

as gods gain divine power, that lasts for varying lengths and in varying doses, associated with events that happen regarding their portfolio

shadow aurora
#

Myrkul is usually contrasted to Kelemvor

#

Whereas Myrkul was about adding more souls to fill his empire of dead, Kelemvor was more interested in distribution of souls

jagged apex
#

and myrkul has Death, decay, old age, exhaustion, dusk, and autumn in his portfolio

glossy salmon
#

hmm Myrkul's quasidivinity also confuses me a lot, so in my game I basically just reverted to BG1/BG2 style divinity for the dead three rather than NWN/BG3 timeline.

shadow aurora
#

Myrkul died and was replaced by Kelemvor though

glossy salmon
#

because I really dunno how to sort through the fact there are like, 3 gods of the dead lmao

shadow aurora
#

Mystra was also replaced by Midnight...

#

who became Mystra anyway iirc

jagged apex
#

he basically was reduced in power greatly do to him and the other dead 3 ignoring lord Ao's command to stop directly influencing the world

shadow aurora
#

Jergal, the original, was bored and had a huge portfolio..made a contest..Dead 3 came and he split it up preferring to be vizier

glossy salmon
#

Isn't Jergal still a thing? Just another god under Kelemvor?

#

or no

jagged apex
#

yep

shadow aurora
#

Jergal under Kelemvor iirc is mad at him

#

I don't recall why

glossy salmon
#

So there's Jergal.. Kelemvor.... Myrkul.... lmao

feral lintel
#

Dont forget Bhaal

shadow aurora
#

Jergal became VP...

feral lintel
#

and Bane

#

who are also part of the death three

jagged apex
#

the dead 3 are not all gods of death

shadow aurora
#

Death in the general sense has many reasons...some natural, some "natural", and some not

#

Jergal had it all and was bored of it

feral lintel
shadow aurora
#

Kelemvor was more about regular ol' natural death

jagged apex
#

granted bhaal as the god of ritualistic murder falls under the death domain for obvious reasons these days

shadow aurora
#

Dead 3 were basically a hostile and negative-mindset focus on death..that it's harmful and sad

glossy salmon
#

Bhaal is the god of murder, bane is the god of tyranny

#

used to be (?)

shadow aurora
#

Bhaal got the murder and sadism side of death

#

Myrkul got the rot and decay side

#

Bane got tyranny, but, since tyranny often brings death he's sort of representative of death in captivity and oppression

#

not just murder but like...you've been worked to death by your master

#

you were executed by the state for giving charity (Talmud records this as the original story for why S'dom and 'Amora were destroyed)

#

Each is an interpretation of death as a sad, negative thing...rather than a just passive thing that happens..like Kelemvor

pine reef
#

quasi-deities like bane, myrkul and bhaal can't grant divine spells to their clerics right?

glossy salmon
#

Oh, that would give a lot of justification for warlocks, if so

pine reef
#

yep, a quasi-deity is likely to have warlocks since they can't grant spells to clerics

shadow aurora
#

uh....so far as I understand, it's all about ToT..

pine reef
#

whats ToT?

glossy salmon
#

but in the end I would give a myrkul patron or a myrkul god to players depending on what class they wanted to play xd

shadow aurora
#

Time of Troubles...when Dead 3 died and Kelemvor took over death and Midnight became Mystra

iron saffron
#

Demigods/quasi-deities (divine rank 0) still have divine power so they can grant clerical spells but not high level one (from older editions)

shadow aurora
#

Ao laid it out that if you have followers you have strength

#

if you don't have followers that worship you, you don't have strength and can fade away

glossy salmon
shadow aurora
#

The death in mortal form didn't disrupt that...they still had worshippers and clergy afterward...so their essence carried on..and I believe that's the whole BG storyline in general is that the essence can be reformed

iron saffron
#

2E and 3E

jagged apex
glossy salmon
#

Thanks! I'll definitely have to check this out

pine reef
#

Dungeon Master guide.

shadow aurora
#

There were people in 3 and 4e that ascended...like Azuth

#

or Tempus

#

or uh..there were a few others..some got eaten..others died...

jagged apex
#

and since they were previously true gods, odds are the dead 3 could

pine reef
#

They're classified as quasi-deities but they don't fall in either of the 3 categories. They're too alive to be Vestiges.

#

And the other 2 are not appropiate.

shadow aurora
#

Yea, I think Dead Three basically exist in a sort of middle state where they've got clergy so they should be gods but they're outs with Ao so they won't be

jagged apex
#

they are basically a specuial case of sorts

#

if a category they would fall under "other"

shadow aurora
#

I think Ghanadaur also had this issue...bc he ate his followers or something

#

I also think Shar had this issue and that caused her shadow weave to collapse..but I need someone to verify that

pine reef
jagged apex
#

so at least going by logic and what is known, i'd say that they indeed could grant clerical spells to their faithful

shadow aurora
#

He had Helm mess a few up

jagged apex
#

but some gods are known to have both clerics and warlocks in their service, the raven queen being the main example of this that i am aware of

shadow aurora
#

Ao is like...in charge but not really involved enough to care

#

but gets mad that it falls apart bc he doesn't care

jagged apex
#

he only really gets involved in extreme cases, like gods not doing their job, or the balance of the cosmos within realmspace being in danger

shadow aurora
#

imo he doesn't care or there would've been balance and no TOT or shifts

jagged apex
#

that is not the case

shadow aurora
#

a god of gods cannot predict and prevent? at least in the real world the free will argument exists...how can one say that when deities are given aspects?

jagged apex
#

he does care about certain things, and has reasoning, he is to gods what the gods are to mortals

shadow aurora
#

Bhaal will always be looking for opportunities to spill blood

#

there is no choice not to..it's a matter of when, not if

#

real world, by those that suppose free will, we are given the right to choose

jagged apex
#

and besides gods have their own limitations, not all of them can predict and prevent, let alone with accuracy without screwing something else up

shadow aurora
#

shar isn't ever going to decide to go visit the sun

#

a person can though..

jagged apex
#

she has no reason to

shadow aurora
#

or choose not to

jagged apex
shadow aurora
#

not survive..but they can go 😉

jagged apex
#

again, no

shadow aurora
#

?

#

how do you figure?

feral lintel
#

Unless your talking about spelljammer, no

jagged apex
#

not all people can use magic, let alone have access to the spells required to

pine reef
#

how is Lolth only a lesser deity when she has all the drow race worship her?

jagged apex
#

or otherwise resources in the case of spelljammers

pine reef
#

shouldn't she be bigger?

shadow aurora
#

spelljammer + teleportation + force-based spells that could propel

#

think the astroid bombardment of Starship Troopers

jagged apex
#

again, not everyone has acces to magic, let alone those things specifically

shadow aurora
#

pushing big rocks with blasts

feral lintel
#

Well your still going to die from radiant and fire damage, assuming there isnt a sun dragon

jagged apex
#

honestly, gunna die long before you get to the sun itself probably

shadow aurora
pine reef
#

go on please

shadow aurora
#

tldr: she killed too many and let too many die in her absence so now she's weaker

#

per the new soul count system

shadow aurora
jagged apex
#

again, many don't even have the means to do so, which you seem to be missing the point of

shadow aurora
#

but like...you're missing my point too

#

you can desire to go

#

you can even change that desire later

#

Shar will never

jagged apex
#

well sure, does not mean you can nessissarily

#

by choice

#

she literally could if she wanted to, but will not, hell she literally tried to snuff it out originally

shadow aurora
#

even in realmspace...people and creatures have a certain ability to choose their direction

#

just, using real world to demonstrate is a bit easier because we live in it, we know what we do and what we could and should and don't do

pine reef
#

what zul's saying is that gods do not have the freedom other beings have, and their portfolio is all that they can do/choose.

shadow aurora
#

there are no "alignments"

pine reef
#

they cannot act outside their portfolio while mortals have complete autonomy

jagged apex
#

gods also have free will

shadow aurora
jagged apex
shadow aurora
pine reef
shadow aurora
#

it will never interest her to admire it..only to extinguish it

jagged apex
#

i am not talking about real world

#

either way i am disengaging from this pointless conversation as clearly this will just keep going around and around

shadow aurora
#

When the ToT happened, it was Mask the thief god that stole the tablets

#

not the gods of law and justice and order

#

riddle me how that could be if it wasn't about portfolio

jagged apex
#

you are either making this up or have been misinformed

#

it is known fact in the lore that the dead 3 stole the tablets

pine reef
#

my interpretation of D&D lore shows gods that f around and found out all the time. they can act outside their portfolio and have free-will, which is a problem. half of the problems that happen is because gods aren't doing their jobs i.e. sticking to their portfolio and have free will.

If they didn't have free will we wouldn't be having so many problems.

#

so I disagree with u Zul on that matter, at least based on my knowledge of D&D history and events.

shadow aurora
#

Dead 3 stole it..but 2 of 3 were related to evil and acts of evil

feral lintel
#

its less than the gods dont have free will. Its more like they will never change their minds

pine reef
#

u have to be pretty arrogand and prideful to be God.

jagged apex
#

gods are so stubborn, even the most stubborn of mortal would be more open minded

pine reef
#

people that are stubborn and prideful irl don't change.

shadow aurora
#

I don't think that they had free will and that's why they neglected their mortals...

pine reef
#

now imagine having others literlaly worship you...

shadow aurora
#

I think they neglected their mortals because they saw them as means to an end in a big forest rather than small tree way

jagged apex
#

and gods iun dnd are more or less like mortals in terms of personalities, so no reason they would and most gods out of just their own desire for power will not even consider doing something unless it benifits them or gives them more power

pine reef
iron saffron
#

No...

shadow aurora
#

yeah, but I think Kelemvor/Mystra's relationship failure was a demonstration of the change upon ascent

#

he got too into it

iron saffron
#

There are a handful of mortals who became gods but that's not "most"

jagged apex
#

eh, not a lot in the grand scheme and besides some were never mortal and this was a trend before the time of troubles, and some gods basically gave up their humanity to do their job more effectively or otherwise better, this is the case with kelemvor

pine reef
#

bane, myrkull, bhaal, mystra, kelemvor, cyric... pretty much every important God I can think off were mortals

shadow aurora
#

I think if gods had free will to that extent supposed, Kelemvor would've had 0 motivation to do anything

#

Bhaal and Bane were already themselves...

#

Myrkul....kind of a weird guy anyway..hard to say

#

Cyric was already crazy

feral lintel
#

Personally, its more so that its just they are their aspects and domain given form

#

its part of them

shadow aurora
#

Torm was loyal

#

Tempus was brave

jagged apex
#

yeah, dude embodied his portfolio to a god of duty, loyalty, righteousness, obedience, and after the spellplague law at least according to the wiki

shadow aurora
#

spellplague was rough reading

#

I didn't like it..

#

though I did like shadow weave for play stuff

jagged apex
# shadow aurora Tempus was brave

and honorable, such was his dogma "The dogma of the Lord of Battles was primarily concerned with honorable combat, forbidding cowardice and encouraging the use of force of arms to settle disputes"

shadow aurora
#

the only argument against free will in people could possibly be derived from these

jagged apex
shadow aurora
#

I could see a valid argument made that people are preset based on the notion that all gods past/present/future have their traits or those necessary for their role in nature

#

probable that this idea would argue everyone else is just a mixture and not "pure" the way Torm or Tempus were

jagged apex
#

like his heart is so full of honor, lust for battle, exuberance for love for food, drink, hunting, and of course battle, there likely was no room for fear

#

plus being a god and thus metaphysical, it would not make sense really for the lord of battles to be fearful

feral lintel
#

cough Ares cough

jagged apex
#

if you mean god of war ares from that franchise, not really relevant, though to be fair i am not that familiar with dnd's version of ares

#

but if he is fearful, tempus is probably the kind of god he wishes he could be

feral lintel
#

Ares is a coward sometimes

#

and not from God of War, just in general

plucky kernel
#

They don’t have any abilities they normally have

#

Just the innate magic of their heritage

#

Using the divine soul subclass

#

Also, extra question,. Is Mask still alive?

#

I think it’s discussed he was,. Just reborn as one of his first chosen now pretty much

#

Unless I misunderstood the lore

iron saffron
#

This channel is about official D&D lore...

#

Taps channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

#

Yes, Mask is still alive.

jagged apex
# feral lintel and not from God of War, just in general

far as i can find, ares we got nothing on for dnd's version, just that he is "Ares, god of war and strife" and is chaotic evil in terms of his alignment with war as the suggested domain for his clerics in 5e with a Spear being his holy symbol, 0 else in terms of details officially far as i can find

plucky kernel
#

I keep misunderstanding the lore of certain parts

feral lintel
#

For those gods, I think most people just take from the original lore

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Ares is in 3.5E Deities & Demigods.

plucky kernel
#

Yeah that’s what I mean

plucky kernel
#

His divinity was claimed by one of his chosen or something something

jagged apex
#

"when the Shadowlord's plans to thwart the Cycle of Night perpetuated by Shar on countless worlds resulted in Mask's divinity (both the Shar-consumed and Kesson Rel portions) being gathered back into a single being—Drasek Riven, Mask's former Second of Five—resulting in the aforementioned cycle being thwarted, along with the stripping of divinities from both Mephistophales and Rivalen Tanthul." cited as being from the book "the godborn"

plucky kernel
#

drasek riven, the divinity of mask became gathered within him

#

yeah! ^^

#

whats this cycle pf night thing?

jagged apex
#

idk

plucky kernel
#

Fair enough, sorry anyways

#

I tend to not 100% fully understand and wanna make sure I was on the right track pretty much

tepid mist
#

Do any of the fine folks here know of a 5e source that includes the Dwarven god Hanseath? He is profiled in the 3.5e book Races of Stone, but I couldn't find a more recent source.

iron saffron
#

A lot of stuff in the earlier editions haven't been updated to 5E.

jagged apex
#

Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes is the only other 5e source i can find on the wiki for that god, apart from the phb @tepid mist

#

page 73 specifically

#

else, we have to rely on that 3.5e lore and weather or not logically the events since then would have changed or effected them

#

so most of that 3.5e lore is basically the most you have in regards to 5e unless more than "Hanseath was the dwarven deity of carousing, brewery, and singing, representing the more festive side of the Stout Folk. The Bearded One was also a war god, beloved by berserkers and whose followers were always seemingly off on some kind of crusade" is written in MToF

tepid mist
tropic drum
#

If the Far Realm is a different plane, what is going on in actual space?

#

As in, whats going on outside the crystal spheres?

sharp owl
#

Crystal spheres aren't a part of lore anymore

#

'space' covers two different planar areas; wildspace and the astral sea

#

Wildspace is where the astral sea and the material plane overlap and basically represents the planetary system of a world. It extends out from a systems sun and is an airless void teeming with activity

#

When you reach the edge of a wildspace system, you transition to the astral sea, a silvery plane of thought

#

The Far Realm is a different plane in the same way the Ethereal Plane, the Planes of Elemental Chaos, the Nine Hells and the Abyss are different planes

jagged apex
tropic drum
#

I see.

#

Hm.

sharp owl
#

The Far Realm is just your typical realm of eldritch horror

jagged apex
#

well it is the way i have come to understand it at least, in relation to where it's placed in the cosmos, as to my knowledge it is not located on the greatwheel like the other planes

sharp owl
#

There is no relation to any "omniverse" of other, non-D&D fiction

#

The Far Realm metaphysically exists 'beyond' the 'edge' of the known existence and is where all laws such as those of magic begin to break down

#

It's not some meta-fictional planar barrier

jagged apex
#

well, either way from what i understand it is basically located on the edge of the dnd multiverse, that was my main point i was trying to convey, granted i could be wrong

tropic drum
#

I see.

sharp owl
#

Yes, the edge in a metaphysical sense, not metafictional

#

There's no diegetic, fourth wall breaking metafictional cosmology to D&D lore

jagged apex
#

the relation to the other multiverses was a bit of head canon on my part since we know the obyriths came from another universe on the other side of the far realm, could be i am misunderstanding what that means as far as intent but far as i am aware it means they come from somewhere outside the dnd multiverse we know, but sorry for including that in my earlier comment

sharp owl
#

Obyriths coming from a universe beyond the Far Realm doesn't mean they came from outside of D&D fiction, it means they came from an impossible to comprehend place, a universe outside of the universe.

#

And this channel is not the place for "head canon"

jagged apex
#

fair enough

jagged apex
vale crane
#

How would a holy symbol look like in a offical LORE of the dnd world. and please dont tell me to ask my dm 🙂

#

I wanted a visual pointer;

#

its homebrew world; but use offical lore

cunning girder
#

Which setting is it based on?

vale crane
#

lets just say classical? faerun?

#

im just looking for examples

cunning girder
vale crane
#

or does the symbols jump into items of many types.

iron saffron
unkempt merlin
#

A symbol can be portrayed on many different objects

cunning girder
#

And you did tell us not to say "Ask your DM", so all we can say is it could be those objects, but can guarantee that it will be those objects

iron saffron
vale crane
iron saffron
#

I had said "Ask your DM" in #dnd-discussion because you weren't specific on the setting and you didn't say you were the DM. A DM could have a homebrew setting with homebrew gods, so their holy symbols is up to the DM then.

vale crane
iron saffron
#

The look of the holy symbol is based on the individual deity. Again, I've linked to sample official D&D gods and to the Faerunian pantheon.

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

there is really no prerequisite for what that holy symbol would look like as it can be basically anything that represents their god or faith or otherwise bares their god's holy symbol

jagged apex
#

is pretty flexible, basically anything that symbolizes that god or features it's holy symbol on it, for example, how kelemvor's is a "Skeletal arm holding up scales in balance", a pendant depicting that image would be a valid holy symbol for a cleric of his or for him to use his divine senses to sense through

#

those 3 being amulets, emblems, and reliquaries

pale ferry
#

I’m looking for information on Pirate factions along the Sword Coast

grim siren
#

You want to start your look with pretty much the entire City of Luskan

pale ferry
#

Great thanks! Are there any publications on the city?

jagged apex
#

anything with a citation can be worth hunting down to see if there is additional context as sometimes things that are archived on the wiki are paraphrased

pale ferry
#

Thanks that led me to the forgotten realms campaign guide. Unfortunately it says the city is all but abandoned and the pirate captains are dead. 😦

jagged apex
pallid berry
#

can we send a photo here as a reference

ionic rivet
#

No - only select channels have image permissions. You can use an image hosting service like imagur and link to the image file that way. Make sure to follow the server rules regarding links and content.

elder hazel
#

Asked this in discussion but might be better here:

Do y'all think that elves and other humanoid races and such, originate from other primates like humans do???

maiden mortar
grave blade
#

fantasy settings have a tendency to be explicit about the origins of fantasy races, particularly the long lived ones (either through simply having historical record going back to when they started existing, or just some of the original ones still being around in the current era)

and also be coy about where humans come from

#

or because the god/powerful immortal being who snapped them into existence is very open about things, etc

#

or even if no one in the current setting knows

you the reader will conveniently have access to the information

maiden mortar
#

I think it would be a fun retelling of Kenku lore to say they were originally a species of giant crows that gained higher and higher intelligence along with extremities to utilize the tools they were inventing

grave blade
#

come to think of it, i haven't really heard of (natural) evolution being a plot point in a dnd setting

its usually more like 'x thing was corrupted by demon blood, y thing was modified by mindflayers, z thing got created or cursed by a god'

#

oh, and that whole hadozee thing I guess

but that's basically just another version of 'modified by mindflayers'

elder hazel
#

Mutation or??

grave blade
# elder hazel Wait what's the Hadozee lore

their old lore was

i actually don't know their old lore. The initial 5e lore was going for a planet of the apes vibe (uplifted animals overthrowing those who would shackle them and all that jazz) iirc, but that combined with some of the art being very similar to some minstrel art (racists depictions of black people) resulted in it being a No Good Very Bad Thing

they also tried a few other retcons I think? but i'm not actually sure what the current fluff is

#

oh and also they had been uplifted specifically to be slave soldiers as well

iron saffron
#

2E Spelljammer Hadozee lore:
https://spelljammer.fandom.com/wiki/Hadozee

Prior to the first Unhuman War, the deck apes were considered to be primitive savages, much like the orcs and their kin, with whom they had previously been grouped. However, the hadozee showed they had a greater level of consciousness and culture, and even provided aid to the elves during the War. Ever since, the elves and the hadozee have had a close relationship, with the elves happily employing their talents as crewmen and mercenary warriors. The elves pay their hadozee employees well, but in no way consider them their equals

#

Ignore 5E Spelljammer (for various reason...)

jagged apex
#

as it is basically asking what we think rather than what is factually published in the lore and history of those settings

jagged apex
# elder hazel Wait what's the Hadozee lore

in 5e "Hadozees’ progenitors were mammals no bigger than house cats.

Today, hadozees are sapient, bipedal beings eager to leave behind the fearsome predators of their home world and explore other worlds.

Hadozees are slender, highly adaptive Humanoids with simian features and their own language. Their feet are fully as dexterous as their hands, even to the extent of having toes that serve as opposable thumbs. Membranes of skin hang loosely from their arms and legs. When stretched taut between outstretched limbs, these membranes enable a hadozee to glide.

On Yazir, their home world, hadozees lived high up in the trees to avoid large predators that walk on land. Today, Wildspace is where most of them feel at home. Hadozees are often hired as mercenary crews by other spacefaring folk. Their natural climbing ability comes in handy, as does their ability to glide. A hadozee accustomed to space travel knows how to use a ship’s gravity plane to its advantage in combat, by diving off one side of the ship, gliding under the keel, and appearing on the opposite side of the ship from where it leapt off."

#

so seems that basically took out how they got from A to B

#

which is where the dm is encouraged to even if using the lore and playing in an established setting, make it up, as is one of those things that at least currently, do to the backlash of what was originally there for 5e, is being left vauge deliberately

grave blade
#

i wonder if that is the only case of a 1st party dnd setting saying evolution is explicitly what happened.

grave blade
jagged apex
#

well yeah, they realised they executed the idea poorly and decided if they couldn't give a detailed one that was able to be executed well, might as well make it ambiguous and let the people make their own logic up

#

honestly, i probably for the best, rather than constantly pumping out revised origins with details and having to worry about it repeating the innitial problem or some similar problem

spark haven
#

I also think it's worth reflecting on how relevant these details actually are. don't get me wrong, as a (amateur) scientist I'm deeply fascinated by the questions of how and why the world(s) work. But like...really...when you're trying to tell a story about a party of adventurers saving a village/city/kingdom from an X/Y/Z, how actually relevant is it that creature X sprang forth fully formed from the forehead of its progenitor vs creature Y hatching from an egg, 10 million years ago?

#

There's absolutely a non-zero number of cases where it can become relevant

#

but I'd bet that number is way smaller than cases where it doesn't

#

It's a parallel to the "how are half-X's made?" question. Technically, there are rules describing its functioning. But is it actually relevant for the adventure?

#

Are we going to watch it happen? interrupt it?

jagged apex
#

not sure if it would be safe to describe the originally printed 5e details, but long story short, seemed like something you'd see a space faring cooperation doing like the one from the alien franchise from what i remember of it

spark haven
#

If not, we probably don't need to get into the specifics

jagged apex
#

honestly, leaving it ambiguous in it of itself can create an adventure hook or two, especially if a member of the party is a hadozee, with the reintroduction of time dragons and their abilities to create portals that can travel up to i think is like 8000 years or so max?

pearl folio
#

Hy, I'm trying to read up on all the lore of the God's of the races but it's confusing me cause some sites say different stuff, maybe because of the different editions? Does anyone know where I can read it in full?

elfin minnow
#

what do you mean specifically for "god's of the races"

pearl folio
#

I wanted to see the origins of the races and how they came to be? I know some things about seldarine and how eladrins came from her blood or something but is that the main elven deity? Do they have like a specific deity? Or is it really just like a pantheon?

#

Like hoe does religion work?

#

how*

#

I'm a new dm

elfin minnow
#

it is just a pantheon

sharp owl
#

That's all setting dependent, what setting are you asking about?

elfin minnow
#

and it depends on the realm you are talking about

pearl folio
#

Forgotten realms

#

?

elfin minnow
#

like the god of lycanthropes in the forgotten realms is Malar, but there is nothing stopping lycans from worshipping other gods

pearl folio
#

Ahhh... so the gods don't have "dominion" over the races and stuff?

elfin minnow
#

not really

#

it depends a little, but usually it's specified

#

like obviously Orcs would be more likely to worship/follow Gruumsh, but it's not required

pearl folio
#

Do you have a site or book I can buy that goes into detail about the gods in forgotten realms or just independent research?

#

like relationships between them

cinder folio
pearl folio
#

who hates who etc etc

pearl folio
cinder folio
#

Don't thank me, thank Google!

elfin minnow
#

also, a big thing to remember especially about gods, there is a purposeful amount of mystery surrounding plenty of them

#

making them in some ways unknowable adds to godhood

iron saffron
median flare
#

i am trying to get into the forgotten realms lore but i am unsure if i should read the books or watch a youtuber explain it for me

iron saffron
#

Both?

#

Youtubers such as Mr.Rhexx tend to put their own spin on things, adding their speculation or opinions rather than just citing lore.

median flare
#

ah i don’t need opinions. like actually explaining the lore

#

and if i were to read the books, which should i read first?

sharp owl
#

I think you're approaching it from the wrong angle, the lore of the Forgotten Realms isn't a narrative, there's no starting point

#

It's a pseudo-history, you kinda just pick an aspect of the setting you're interested in and start reading. This could be the sword coast or the spellplague or the Netherese Empire or the weave

median flare
#

i see

#

thank you

storm latch
#

Looking for Fey gate lore can anyone point me in the right direction.

cinder folio
storm latch
restive summit
#

Could someone please explain the Walking Statues of Waterdeep to me?

grim siren
#

The Walking Statues were mighty constructs built for the defense of holy temples, ancient vaults and the most important cities, castles and fortresses of Waterdeep. They often served as ethereal guardians that could attack other ethereal creatures approaching its guarded area. They were unswervingly loyal to their instructions or orders, carrying them out to the best of their abilities.

Unlike most constructs, walking statues were free-willed, thinking creatures who could reason, learn and remember. They were able to stand still for centuries at a time, remaining endlessly vigilant, but all the while they would be deep in thought. Walking statues were capable of understanding Common and Draconic, but would speak only if they were commanded to do so by their creator or by any whom they recognized as an authority.

Originally there was only one visible statue in the city, later known as The Sahuagin Humbled, while seven other statues remained hidden on the ethereal plane around the city. During The Spellplague (1385 DR) six more of the statues exited the ethereal plane and begun rampaging the city. Tsarra Chaadren, the Blackstaff at the time, was unable to control them or banish them back to The Ethereal plane. Once their rampage ended, the city rebuilt around, on top of, and sometimes inside the statues. Much later in 1479 DR the eighth statue, The Griffon, appeared. It defended Ahghairon's Tower before settling down near The Peaktop Aerie on Mount Waterdeep. As the statues are unable to be removed from the city, they've come to be used as landmarks to navigate.

Sources for this wiki entry:

Christopher Perkins, James Haeck, James Introcaso, Adam Lee, Matthew Sernett (September 2018). Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. Edited by Jeremy Crawford. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 182, 183, 219. ISBN 978-0-7869-6625-7.

Eric L. Boyd (June 2005). City of Splendors: Waterdeep. (Wizards of the Coast), pp. 139–140. ISBN 0-7869-3693-2.

dry sable
#

What's the lore of werewolves and Lycanthropy in 5e?

sharp owl
#

Which setting? It varies a lot

dry sable
#

Uhhh, any of them really but I guess forgotten realms first

sharp owl
serene goblet
#

How do magic items get made? Is it possible that a PC/NPC is a magic item inventor?

sharp owl
#

People make them

serene goblet
#

thanks :D

serene goblet
sharp owl
#

What do you mean?

#

Like, of course there isn't one single answer, no one person makes all the magic items

#

Some notable magic item creators include Leuk-o and Kwalish

#

On the plane of Eberron, House Canith is renowned for their artifice and magical creations

spark haven
#

But also, some magic items are just the random bodily secretions of gods or something, like blood/tears. Or more gruesome trophies like a severed finger

sharp owl
#

On Ravnica, the Izzet League is the premier fabricator of magical items

hazy pivot
#

If you look at the new Book of Many Things, it describes how The Deck of Many Things was made by a god, and that it is so powerful it echoes across the mutliverse and that why there are so many Decks of Many Things.

#

Some artifacts do the same thing

#

The dragon orbs are the first thing that comes to mind of echoes of artifacts

serene crater
#

quick question, but is it possible for a mind flayer to dominate others of it's kind without needing to be an elder brain or ultharid?

olive bridge
#

Do the Forgotten Realms have a Santa equivalent? I want to surprise my players with gifts for their characters.

iron saffron
echo parcel
#

would demon lords and dragons interact whatsoever

iron saffron
#

Ask in #dnd-discussion as it's not really a lore question. Be more specific with specific demon lords and we could answer.

echo parcel
#

ok ty

unkempt merlin
#

That is a lore question?

#

Demons (and by extension) demon lords do interact with dragons. Typically to try and corrupt them.

echo parcel
#

ok ty

serene crater
#

I mean I forgot the name, but I remembered a Balor that worked with one until it was used for the dragon's heart to ascend to a greatwyrm

echo parcel
iron saffron
echo parcel
#

ok ty

jagged apex
#

the balor's name was Ammet

#

and was not really any sort of working relationship, dude basically bound him recover after a mortal wound, now acting as a second heart

serene crater
#

huh. well then

restive summit
#

How old is the Eberron setting and where could I read more about it?

crude blaze
sick skiff
#

Why do Werewolves have immunity and Wereravens do not?

unkempt merlin
#

Simply due to the time the statblocks were made. It's not a lore thing

iron saffron
#

Ask the WotC designers about the statblocks.

sick skiff
#

That was exactly my though, it could be a lore thing

#

Thanks

jagged apex
#

so in the lore, they do have this immunity, as to my knowledge it is not mentioned in their 5e lore that they lack it, granted i could be wrong

sick skiff
#

Oh, thats true, thanks Scarlet, that is amazing knowledge

#

Thank you very much @jagged apex good insight

modest badger
#

Wereravens in 5e also have the regeneration trait that others don't.

Regeneration. The wereraven regains 10 hit points at the start of its turn. If the wereraven takes damage from a silvered weapon or a spell, this trait doesn't function at the start of the wereraven's next turn. The wereraven dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate.

SO I think it's more that for this one particular lycanthrope they decided rather than show the 'immunity' as regeneration that is stopped by silver (or spell), instead of the 'is immune to all not magical or silver'.

iron saffron
#

The resistance is from the 2E version.

Wereravens could only be hit by silver, or +2 magical, weapons.

#

The game designers screwed it up for the 5E version.

modest badger
#

It is strange that the regeneration is also not stopped by magical weapons.

unkempt merlin
modest badger
#

Oh, missed that.

unkempt merlin
#

Hence why I said it's not a lore thing. Mechanically they represent the same thing of lycans being harmed by silver weapons and not others

#

Again, not a lore thing

modest badger
#

I missed the updated lycanthropes. Which book has them? Van Richtens, MPMM?

unkempt merlin
#

It didn't update old ones, but added new ones. VRG has stuff like the loup garou which is for lack of a better term: a dire werewolf

jagged apex
#

i know that werevultures were added to 5e as of the book of many things

sick skiff
#

Well, I think the Loup Garou is way better design

#

You actually need Silvered Weapons to be more effective against them

#

Magic Weapons don't cut its regeneration, which makes more sense

#

Also regeneration makes way more sense than "immunity"

#

I always ruled as the lycantrope regenerating faster than people could do damage anyways, so there is that

unkempt merlin
#

That was the implied flavor of their immunity yes

sick skiff
#

And I'll definitely add a Loup Garou into my Strahd game

unkempt merlin
#

Now they simply changed the mechanics to reflect the concept better

jagged apex
#

in dnd, they are pretty much akin to the analogy that swampellow used earlier

#

as their curse is described as "extremely virulent" so presumably that is the reason for them basically being super werewolves

sick skiff
#

I mean, they create werewolves, and the werewolves they created cannot have the curse broken

#

Is that it?

#

They don't create other Loup Garous

jagged apex
#

historically instead of silver, they were vulnerable to gold weapons apparently

#

cited from "Monstrous Compendium Ravenloft Appendix III: Creatures of Darkness"

sick skiff
#

Oh i'll put this guy so much in my Curse of Strahd

jagged apex
sick skiff
#

it will add so much flare to the werewolf part

jagged apex
sick skiff
#

They were a variation then, the Mountain Garou were vulnerable to gold

#

That is a nice cool variation, not gonna lie

#

Those subversion of expectations are always nice

#

Adds depth

iron saffron
#

The 2E loup-garous (which is French for werewolf...) were resistant to weapon damage except for silvered weapons (which did normal damage) but magic weapons only did as much damage as their magical bonus (Str modifier nor damage roll applied).

jagged apex
#

which would potentially be even stronger if carried over to 5e, since magical weapons only go up to +3 by RAW these days

pine reef
#

What entities in D&D lore are natural merchants/economists and exceed at it?

sick skiff
#

Player Character I would say

unkempt merlin
sick skiff
#

They are amongst the richest

#

Hahahahaha

jagged apex
pine reef
jagged apex
sick skiff
#

Jokes aside, I don't really know, but I would go for humans, they might be the most greedy

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

Dohwar

jagged apex
#

in past editions i believe they were called something slightly different, that was similar to the word arcane

jagged apex
pine reef
#

Dohwar seems to be their rivals.

jagged apex
#

so is very one sided as they barely even acknowledge the little penguin like fey

#

though definitely seems the dohwar are the more annoying of the bussiness centric species

#

at least according to this line of behavior cited from their TSR days "Insistent merchants, dohwar intentionally lacked any social skills. When negotiating, they frequently engaged in pushy and unpleasant behavior, pairing up against a potential customer and endlessly reciting their list of merchandise or offers to buy their client's possessions until some sort of deal was struck. They carried incredibly varied selections of goods, including wagons, small boats, magic items, and any other items imaginable."

#

very much the "buy something so i'll go away/leave you alone" approach, which is kind of funny

pine reef
#

can't take the penguins seriously....

meager lotus
#

Just curious, why is everything in the Forgotten Realms wiki in past tense, as though the entirety of the Realms with all its immortal inhabitants were destroyed in some giant cataclysm?

spark haven
#

Because using present or future tense would be weirder.

#

Also, based on the name, it seems to be something from the past

#

You can't Forget the future

iron saffron
#

The wiki deals with things from various edition eras so not everything is "present" (which is currently 5E era).

meager lotus
#

But isn't it called the Forgotten Realms because the Realms were forgotten by a fictional version of our world?

#

Idk the structure of the universe in Forgotten Realms is so confusing to me lol.

spark haven
#

Sure, it's all a bunch of make-believe. There's less consistency than you seem to be hoping for

meager lotus
#

Yeah, as a Dark Souls fan I'm used to that kinda thing but sometimes I fall into a rabbithole of convoluted DnD lore that makes my head explode

jagged apex
spark haven
#

Right, DnD has at least two orders of magnitude more authors working on it, and a much longer lifespan

meager lotus
jagged apex
wet spindle
#

Personally, I like to curate my own lore outside of existing D&D worlds. It gives me more creative control, and allows for a more streamlined, structured and ultimately accurate worldbuilding process

#

That’s just me tho - it’s often a Sisyphean effort to create your own entire world

#

and I get why people want to use the preexistent stuff like the Forgotten Realms

jagged apex
#

basically it is all past tense, is cuz the majority of stuff in the setting has already happened, including if is still somewhat recent, plus again it also having records of past editions

meager lotus
#

But I had another question though, if Bahamut is the god of metallic dragons and Tiamat is the goddess of chromatic dragons, then what does that mean for the gem dragons? I see that one of Bahamut's aliases is Fizban but idk what that means

jagged apex
#

there are things though, not just in the forgotten realms, but in dnd lore as a whole, deliberately left vague and up for interpretation, is just part of the nature of the game/hobby

jagged apex
#

Sardior was the lord of gem dragons, who in current continuity is sscattered across the subconsiouses of every gem dragon in the multiverse

meager lotus
#

Ohh that's really cool and fascinating

jagged apex
#

as for the alias of fizban, on krynn bahamut, or Paladine as he is known on that world, is known to take the form of an elderly human man that goes by the name Fizban, which is basically an avatar of his, but also arugably an aspect of him

#

like which is like a fraction of a god's being and personality that is perfectly capable of being and individual all it's own, is what happened with the world serpent supposedly

jagged apex
#

which also details many aspects of dragons in dnd 5e across the multiverse, not tied to any one setting, ie setting agnostic

meager lotus
#

That's some really cool stuff. Thanks for the info

jagged apex
#

also keep in mind, each edition is it's own continuity while events from the past editions are still largely a thing in the current continuity, they may not have happened exactly the same way when getting into details, so anything not detailed or covered yet in 5e is typically extrapolated, hopefully i am using that term properly, from past editions to fill in the blanks until more recent information states otherwise, so if you come across any contradictions, over all in the 5e continuity, newer lore takes priority

#

but certain things, especially the big events used as in universe ways to explain the changes from one edition to another, are near universal to the forgotten realms often, and are often referenced, further cementing them having happened in this continuity in some capacity

meager lotus
#

that makes sense, as it's an ever evolving universe which was originally made in the 70s

jagged apex
#

plus ed greenwood works on it further regularly, what we get in published materials is basically what he and wizards of the coast agree apon for the published continuity

#

is usually the case with other setting creators and the settings they create when ever wizards wants to put out new lore for that setting, at least to my knowledge

jagged apex
jagged apex
meager lotus
#

One last thing though. I heard Dragonborn are almost all lawful or neutral good, but in Dragonborn society they tend to shun and discriminate upon worshippers of Bahamut, because Bahamut never did anything to help them when Tymanther was a part of Abeir (even though the gods of Toril had zero influence on Abeir). Even if these Dragonborn believe they're getting rid of evil by doing this I don't know how they can be considered "good" after committing religious discrimination, because what defines your morality is what you do and how you think, not your own personal perspective of your own actions. I understand shunning worshippers of Tiamat, as she's literally a chaotic evil goddess who wants to bring about an apocalypse on Toril, but Bahamut is a lawful good god of justice. So isn't calling most Dragonborn "lawful good" contradictory to what they do to Bahamutans in their homeland?

strange rose
#

there is much more to religious conflict than alignment. Two lawful good people can have very different opinions of one deity.

meager urchin
#

can dragon borns reason with and befreind true dragons?

iron saffron
#

Just like any other creature would. They don't get a mechanic benefit with true dragons.

meager urchin
#

so can they become friends with one?

iron saffron
#

As any other sentient creature.

meager urchin
#

ok

#

how did the city between planes get built

iron saffron
#

Sigil?

#

Noone knows how Sigil came to be.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Sigil#History

Sigil's origins were unknown and clouded in mystery and legend. Some speculated that the city had been built by the Lady of Pain herself, while others maintained that Sigil had been built by the dabus. They were believed to be the city's first inhabitants, since there was no record of a time where they were not present in the city. This hypothesis was also favored by the unique level of care the dabus demonstrated toward Sigil, constantly repairing it and silently watching over it.

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

basically in short, the majority of dragonborn in their society do not believe there is such a thing as a good dragon, let alone a good dragon god, plus in their society religion is more so a private matter to keep within one's own home/personal life

jagged apex
pine reef
#

Since demon princes can reshape the Abyss layer they in can they create resources? Like manifest rich mountains with ores?

#

Wealth appears a tool that devils use, and need. If demons can reshape reality of abyss can they create limitless wealth in terms of resources to be exploited like gold gems etc?

jagged apex
#

use, yes, need, not so much, unless hiring some yugoloths

#

the rest, not sure, is not like active reality warping what happens is the layer of the abyss is influenced by the prince that controls it, more or less making it to their liking for the most part, so to my knowledge nothing suggesting they can but also nothing technically saying they can't

pine reef
#

devils use material wealth to secure mortal souls.

#

are demons too stupid to do it?

jagged apex
#

that is not really how that works, and besides it is not like they go up offering some goal in exchange for their soul

#

they largely tempt mortals after they die while waiting to be judged or otherwise manipulate or have them involved in schemes that will lead to them ending up in hell naturally or by consequence of their contract if they form one, when they die

#

and is not like demons are stupid, some demons are actually quite intelligent, especially compared to mortals on average

jagged apex
# pine reef devils use material wealth to secure mortal souls.

to my knowledge they only use it to hire and tempt yugoloths that are either selling their services or are working for the demons in the blood war, as material wealth is what the vugoloths value rather than souls and thus charge that for their aid/services

pine reef
# jagged apex that is not really how that works, and besides it is not like they go up offerin...

As mentioned above, the benefits a mortal could reap from a contract with a devil were those that the devil had to somehow provide. A devil might have a network of spies that allowed it to provide information to the mortal, raiders under contract to obtain the necessary wealth, or some infernal cultists who could provide the mortal who sold his or her soul with some insider trades to benefit from. Actual magical help from the devil was possible, but rare and only done when it could not provide the asked service in mundane ways. This could lead to an archdevil be petitioned to cast miracle for the mortal.

jagged apex
#

otherwise material wealth is largely just for show and has no real practical use to my knowledge in devil or demon societies

pine reef
#

offering wealth in-exchange for contracts that binds souls of mortals is a valid tactic.

jagged apex
#

eh, even if it was, is not really a thing that happens in the lore to my knowledge

pine reef
#

devils actually even ransom others for material wealth.

sharp owl
#

@pine reef What's your actual lore question?

jagged apex
#

besides most people tend to not even have access to magic let alone the spells and such that are needed to summon a devil, not to mention the devils have laws of what they can and can not do to secure a soul

sharp owl
#

If it's "Do demons fabricate wealth to tempt mortals?" the answer is yes

jagged apex
#

far as i can tell he is wondering if devils do, but to my knowledge i can't recall any such cases or mentions of such a thing

sharp owl
#

However, remember that like devils, demons can't freely pass into the mortal realm and typically must be summoned by powerful mortals

#

These mortals rarely crave material wealth because when you're powerful enough to summon fiends, summoning gold or silver from the plane of earth for example is a trivial matter

pine reef
#

That is wrong. There are certain species that can cross into the prime material plane, the realm of mortals without summoning. The example that sits atop of my head are Erinyes.

sharp owl
#

I said typically

#

There are exceptions, yes

#

So no need to be quite so brusk

#

And Erinyes are the rare exception, to the point that it's noted that it's unlike "almost all other devils"

jagged ice
#

Question re: Bhaalspawn - Are they able to detect each other through some means?

I've never DM'd and I'm just now starting to try to read up on the pantheon and lore. It's a lot. I've read about Bhaal spreading his essence through Bhaalspawn and how they'd kill each other so whats-her-name could perform the ritual to bring him back and such. But did they somehow know when they came across one?

gilded lava
#

are class names understood by npcs of settings like the forgotten realms and eberron?

#

like i understand the terms cleric, paladin and wizard are known, but if a pc told someone "i'm a warlock" or "i'm a rogue", would they understand what that means? (like specifcally that a warlock is a magic user with a patron)

fallow leaf
#

no

iron saffron
#

Classes are a game mechanic.

#

A fighter could call herself an "assassin" because she's a hired killer but she has no levels in the rogue assassin sub-class.

jagged apex
#

as is often said the class terms of non-diegetic, hopefully i spelled that right

#

granted some of those terms do appear in universe, but in those cases have little if anything to do with the classes we know on the mechanics end of things

magic jackal
#

it's fair to say at least some of the terms are probably diegetic, it's not a stretch to suggest Wizard is diegetic for example.

jagged apex
#

far as i know terms like wizard, mage, ect... are at most confined to the community of such casters and magic users and a sort of title

magic jackal
#

But for example Barbarian is more a pejorative to describe foreign people perceived as "simpler" or "uneducated" etc. so that's not necessarily Diegetic as a term referring to people who have the Barbarian class.

#

So Wizard is more diegetic than Barbarian at least in terms of reference to a person that would have that "class".

jagged apex
#

indeed

hard glen
#

What is the largest soul you can put into a soul coin?

#

Such as a dragon?

iron saffron
#

Souls don't have a physical size.

fathom fjord
#

hey, does anyone know if Tabaxi have royal families and such?

modest badger
# fathom fjord hey, does anyone know if Tabaxi have royal families and such?

Depends on the setting. We don't have much lore for Tabaxi.
In 1e Fiend Folio they were treated much more like 'animal' people- wore no clothes, didn't use tools, lived in small family prides.

In 2e Faerun, Fires of Zatal, tabaxi are more mesoamerican coded and were in Matzica. They lived in larger clans led by a clan elder or sometimes a Jaguar Lord

Tabaxi clans contain equal numbers of males and females, and a full clan will have 2-7 Hunts of 2-8 individuals. The Hunts work the area around the clan lair. Sometimes the lair is temporary, but it is often a small village of ramadas, constructions of grass roofs supported by tall poles, with no walls. In a lair, 3-12 young with 1 Hit Die will be found. An elder with 4 Hit Dice acts as clan leader, and 50% of the leaders are aided by a 5th-level shaman. A clan also has a 10% chance of owing allegiance to a Jaguar Lord.
Jaguar Lords are possibly cursed Tabaxi, and are evil in nature.

I can't recall 5e Volo's giving much more on that. Just that they're from Matzica, so 2e lore might still apply.

fathom fjord
jagged apex
#

again, they don't have physical size, but dragon souls are not like most other mortal creature's so, not really one that would make much sense in my opinion at least for one to be in a soul coin

jagged apex
modest badger
#

Yeah, Volo's is FR set, so mentioning Matzica makes sense, but MPMM is setting generic.
So worth discussing with a DM, but FR wise at least that's potentially still the current lore.
The 1e lore feels very out of date now and would have applied to Greyhawk.

#

But Tabaxi skipped 3e and 4e from what I recall, so we either have 5e's sparse lore or the very old AD&D lore which often needs to be taken with more than a grain of salt.

jagged apex
#

based on a particular sentence, it likely depends on where they live, both setting and geologically in 5e "In other places, tabaxi live as other folk do, not exhibiting the feline behavior the Cat Lord intended." as monsters of the multiverse puts it, so tabaxi with sort of "royal families" does not sound unreasonable to be a potential thing

#

but only specific settings i know we have seen them in recent years is forgotten realms, granted there could be more, but to my knowledge all the tabaxi we have seen in published materials in terms of like npcs and things detailing any sort of cultural norms, has been forgotten realms, so yeah, definitely dependent on setting you are in and your dm

tardy wasp
#

Do we have any examples from older editions' lore of the any Seldarine gods having Paladins in their service?

modest badger
#

Paladins didn't have the one step rule that clerics did, as they didn't really ever need to worshp a god (outside of 4e), so it was mechanically possible, even when Paladins were alignment locked to LG (in AD&D, although some variant paladins in 3.5 allowed for CG paladins (Paladins of Freedom))

And there are prestige classes in 3.5 like Champion of Corellon from races of the wild that specifically allow paladins to take it and are paladin like, and a requisite is you must worship corellon:

Corellon's Blessing (Su): Upon entering this class, you gain the ability to heal wounds by touch, much like a paladin's lay on hands ability.
(...)
If you have levels in paladin, you add your levels of champion of Corellon and paladin together and determine your ability to heal accordingly (although if you have a Charisma score of lower than 12, your paladin levels do not contribute to your ability to heal).

And sun elves in 3.5 were described as:

"Sun elves favor the traditional paths of the elven folk: fighter and wizard. No sun elf could truly be described as a barbarian, although a sun elf raised among wilder kin might, on very rare occasions, choose to take levels in the barbarian class. They make good bards, and even if they are not noted for their light-hearted revels, the ancient songs and lore of a learned bard are worthy of a sun elf’s respect. Sun elves are also the foremost clerics and paladins among the elven races. The arts of stealth and archery are not widely practiced among sun elves, so rangers and rogues are relatively scarce among them."

iron saffron
#

Paladins were still restricted to LG up to 3E. CG deities like Sune had paladins nonetheless.

#

I swear there was a Dragon Magazine issue that had "holy warriors" for the other eight alignments. Can you correct me if I'm misremembering this, Elgate?

modest badger
#

In AD&D paladins were also restricted to humans, but 2e's Paladin Handbook allowed for 'demipaladins' (Cleric/fighters, so needed to worship a god, so 'Elven Troopers' likely worshipped one of the Seldarine)

Hmm, gonna have to look that one up.

#

Dragon 106!

iron saffron
#

Thanks! I know that for ages people had variants on the anti-paladin (aka blackguard in 3E) but I did recall vaguely of an article on non-LG holy warriors.

jagged apex
#

their belief in their cause is massively more important than service to any sort of god

jagged apex
#

else from what i can find none of them have any paladin orders of their own, closest are otherwise some knighthoods, though there are some gods that one could if wanting to have an elven paladin serve a god that would like up with some of the orders of paladin depicted in subclasses https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Seldarine#Members such as Shevarash in regard to vengeance

calm crest
# modest badger Dragon 106!

I remember the Wizard’s Spell Compendia having references to Paramanders, good to know where to actually find them.

slow river
#

is this a place to ask about dnd gods?

grim siren
#

Yes

slow river
#

Is there any God of Peace and Trickery?

jagged apex
# slow river Is there any God of Peace and Trickery?

not one that is a god of both, at least to my knowledge
typically seems often those domains are in conflict, so kind of makes sense that we don't seem to have any with both domains or otherwise viewed as a god of both peace and trickery

iron saffron
#

Also, which setting...?

zealous minnow
#

There's a quick line in the PHB about the school of necromancy that says that its considered taboo in many cultures. How do you arbitrate necromancy and raising the undead in your campaign? Do you allow players to choose the necrotic school in a good-aligned party? Is raising the dead near civilization considered illegal?

jagged apex
#

all i can say lore wise is that white necromancy is known to be a thing, which would potentially be an exception to that trend mentioned in the phb

unkempt merlin
mighty raptor
#

how does a level 20 wizard player char compare to likes of Elminister or Halaster etc ?

sharp owl
#

That's not really a lore question

#

Levels don't exist diegetically (in the world/fiction) and also level 20 means different things across different editions

#

Combine that with the fact that various characters have been depicted with varying levels of power in mechanical terms across the editions as well, it all kinda comes down to the nature of the story being told

#

In lore Elminster and Halaster are very powerful beings, but that's about it

jagged apex
#

plus some like elminster are chosen of the goddess of magic, on top of their abilities as mortal magic users

pine reef
#

If Ceremorphosis destroys the subject's soul how do the rare Illithids become petitioners after death in Ilsensine's realm? While rare, some choose not to join an Elder Brain but join Ilsensine instead.

sharp owl
#

Because the illithid themselves have a soul

#

Ceremorphosis destroys the subjects soul, but it doesn't leave the resulting illithid souless, as that would basically result in a catatonic being

pine reef
#

Aha, OK. So the souls are the tadpoles themselves gotcha.

sharp owl
#

Not really, no

#

It's more that the illithids soul is born out of the process of subsuming the hosts thoughts and memories

#

That's not to say the tadpole doesn't have a soul

modest badger
#

I think (at least according to older lore) it's more that the original hosts soul goes to the afterlife

sharp owl
#

I think that was changed to it destroying the hosts soul

#

Oh, it's either

#

Fugue Plane or destruction

modest badger
#

AD&D source 'The Illithiad' p.12 has this:

Generally speaking, the point after implantation. Any time after this, it is impossible to restore the victim; his or her spirit seeks its fate in the Outer Planes
Implying that the victims soul/spirit (there was a slight distinction in AD&D, but it gets muddled and then dropped by 3.5) is gone, and so it will be the Illithid's spirit that remains.
And ah is it either now it 5e?

sharp owl
#

According to FR wiki it's either/or, couldn't find anything conclusive in any current source that contradicts that

modest badger
#

This bit from the same AD&D source is also interesting:

Illithids do not seek an afterlife in the Outer Planes after death; instead, they endeavor to join—mind and spirit—with the elder brain of their community. The promise of life after death that so many deities hold over their worshipers does not offer the same appeal to many illithids. Thus, illithid deities suffer a lack of after-life spirits (petitioners) from the very race that believes in them. (p.40)
As a source for older editions that Illithids do have spirits, but often merge them with the elder brain, rather than enter the outer planes.

modest badger
#

Ah BG3 says their souls are destroyed and that illithids are souless. This doesn't quite agree with how 5e works mechanically (nothing prevents illithids being raised which implies a soul mechanically), and I believe greenwood for FR has stuck more to the 2e version of how it works. So for this it depends on which canon you use.

pine reef
#

Is Beshaba still in the Abyss?

jagged apex
hardy sierra
#

hello, does anyone know what would happen if the plane limbo was destroyed?

iron saffron
hardy sierra
#

those in dnd discussion sent me here 💀

iron saffron
#

Planes of existence are near impossible to destroy. A plane of existence is essentially an universe.

#

Lore is basically history.

#

Speculation of "what if this happens" is not something lore/history is about.

hardy sierra
#

hey man I'm just doing what they told me, I'm totally new here

iron saffron
#

Taps channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

#

Again, your question isn't really lore-related.

pine reef
#

Are Abyssal layers infinite like the abyss itself?

If the answer is yes, they're infinite, why do demon princes fight each other for abyssal layers when their own layer is literally infinite and therefore one doesn't need more territory because they can't fill it anyway?

iron saffron
#

Each layer has it's own dimensions and physics.

#

The "infinite" part of "inifinite layers of the Abyss" is the number of layers. The Shard of Ultimate Evil is drilling into the Abyss, creating new layers as it goes.

#

Demon lords don't fight over layers but titles, such as Prince of Demons.

jagged apex
#

as to why, it is power, concurring a layer and slaying the previous ruler presumably would bolster one's own power, plus some layers are not even hospitable even to demons

iron saffron
#

I'm looking at the 3.5E Fiendish Codex: Hordes of the Abyss. Most of the Abyssal layers listed show them as "finite"

jagged apex
#

well in 5e to my knowledge the default for a plane of existence, and the layers of that plane, are infinite in scale, unless specified otherwise

iron saffron
#

Layers listed as "infinite" are The Grand Abyss (layer 4), the Demonweb, the Iron Waste (layer 25), and the Endless Maze (layer 600)

#

Most layers of an outer plane are finite unless otherwise listed.

pine reef
iron saffron
#

Those I just listed are "infinite"...

pine reef
#

No, not the infinite ones, the finite ones you mentioned.

jagged apex
#

them being finite in 3.5e is only important if you are specifically using 3.5e

pine reef
#

Like, the scale of them; a county, a country, a continent, a world?

iron saffron
#

No.

#

Usually continent sized

pine reef
iron saffron
#

I will mention the edition and book if possible.

jagged apex
#

plus extra planar beings have different ideas of what does and does not make sense and have their own reasons for things

iron saffron
#

Each plane has their own dimension and physics/gravity. You have to do the research... again, 2E Planescape and 3.5E has more details than 5E can offer.

#

FR wiki is a good resource of published books cited for the info you're looking for.

jagged apex
#

except, last i checked, each plane in 5e is infintie in scale more often than not

iron saffron
#

Plane, not layer...

#

Also, citation please of the 5E book.