#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 36 of 1

jagged apex
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far as i know it has never been disproven, so i always just kind of keep it in mind as a possibility

iron saffron
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I trust AJ more than Mr.Rhexx but I still like a citation.

jagged apex
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i'll see if i can find one anywhere

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"(October 2007). “The Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Graz'zt, the Dark Prince”. In Kim Mohan ed. Dragon #360 (Wizards of the Coast), pp. 10–11. Archived from the original on 2009-06-03. Retrieved on 2019-08-27"

iron saffron
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I still don't see where it mentions Asmodeus as his father.

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The article suggests that Pale Night is his mother but doesn't say who the father is.

jagged apex
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"Some maintained that Asmodeus was drawn from the Nine Hells to mate with Pale Night, implying that there may be truth in both theories."

iron saffron
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I don't see that in that Dragon Magazine article (oh that's from the wiki)

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From the article:

"The exact nature of the entity that Pale Night ensnared and mated with has long been the subject of debate among scholars. Those with their own desires and allegiances invoke names such as Asmodeus, Loki, Set, or even one of the ancient baernaloths, perhaps basing their theories more upon personal prejudice and loyalty than actual evidence. "

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The wiki took liberties from what the article implied.

jagged apex
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either way it is an in universe theory

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but if asmodeus were his father, it would explain his often more devil like behavior compared to the other demon lords

iron saffron
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Well, it's suggested he was a devil before.

jagged apex
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yeah but that is again another theory on his origin

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point is it is implied in a way to where it is a possible in universe theory on the dark prince's origin

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but is potentially fitting that his origin is a bit unclear much like asmodeus' own true origins

cosmic otter
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Could a human become a teifling through exposure to a demon or as the result of pact with a demon?

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All right thanks

iron saffron
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I've never read where a human became a mortal through a pact with a fiend.

untold blaze
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What kind of relationship do baldur's gate and waterdeep goverments have ?

jagged apex
manic moat
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how is the underdark structured? Like, which races inhabit it and such.
also, what’s the behaviour of those who live on the surface towards the inhabitants of the underdark?

modest badger
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Ah some pretty broad questions there. Any particular setting in mind?

manic moat
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forgotten realms, sorry if i haven’t mentioned it

modest badger
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For forgotten realms the wiki does have a lot that can cover for you: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Underdark
There's a bunch of races that can inhabit it across the editions, but drow, duergar, illithid, svirfneblin, aboleth, koa-toa and such are fairly common.
There are three 'levels' overall- lower, middle and upper dark.
Surface attitudes is very dependent on which community.

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Some have open trade with those below, some have secret trade, some think they are scary, evil slavers (which isn't incorrect for some of the underdark cultures)

jagged apex
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some even have to do these practices just to survive, namely things like slavery, as is the case with the svirfneblin, as they are more or less like their surface kin in terms of friendliness

modest badger
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I wouldn't ever down play slavery as 'just to survive'.

jagged apex
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not trying to downplay it, just to my knowledge they adopted the practice cuz it seems to be one of those things those in the underdark seemingly have to do if they wanna last long term

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like far as i know civilization that does not adopt it seemingly does not tend to last long in the underdark, either way it is a trend in the underdark even with the svirfneblin

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i could be wrong though, in which case i got no idea why the svirfneblin would adopt the practice as to my understanding they are as friendly as other gnomes on the surface

manic moat
modest badger
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Really is a failing of D&D lore and narrative approaching slavery if it can ever come across as a 'neccessary evil just to survive'.
Which it never is, the fact that svirfneblin and myconid communities can do fine without slavery and often only struggle because they are raided for slavery, is proof enough that no, slavery is not needed to survive.
The cultures that benefit from slavery do not need it to survive, they use it to profit.

Be it in Darksun or in the underdark or elsewhere, slavery as a system isn't neccessary, it's always an abusive system that benefits only one group at the cost of another where other systems could work (as evident in the fact the slaves and other cultures being raided themselves can survive).

jagged apex
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huh, i guess i may have been misinformed on some aspects of them then

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good to know and correct that, thx

topaz socket
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Does lore form older editions such as 3e still effect 5e lore seeing that they are the same world just about 150 years apart?

dusty kettle
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For the most part. They tend to retcon certain elements, but usually try to do so with story reasons.

I think Spelljammer got some pretty big changes to the cosmology

jagged apex
jagged apex
# topaz socket Does lore form older editions such as 3e still effect 5e lore seeing that they a...

older editions and their lore are basically used to fill in the gaps in parts of 5e lore that have yet to be addressed until they get addressed in published materials that tell us what is what there or if any past events did not happen or happened a specific or different way in the 5e continuity, should those subjects and bits of lore be touched on at all, this is especially the case often when looking at most things outside of the sword coast on the world of toril

iron saffron
jagged apex
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basically anything that was not sufficiently popular or well received, least as i understand it

iron saffron
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Which was most of 4E FR lore...

jagged apex
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and even some of the stuff that did get kept or carried over got new versions for the 5e continuity, at least was the case with the raven queen

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also psionics, like every edition before it psionics changed in nature, in 5e it is a specific form of magic

iron saffron
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5E barely mentions psionics and disappointingly not its own system as in past editions.

jagged apex
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not sure what it was concidered in 3e

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it did not have it's own system cuz it would be an unneeded complexity, and besides that is not really a disappointment unless you prefered certain editions past, it having a system or not is not even a lore thing

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and i don't know what you mean, i see it mentioned plenty when the term is actually applicable

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literally every creature with psionics mentions psionics even if they are just associated with psionics to my knowledge

jagged apex
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oh another thing that is a notable change from past editions lore wise, is how magic behaves in sigil and the outlands, the rings and levels of magic being only availably within certain rings of the outlands in relation to the spire is seemingly no longer a mechanical issue or thing

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or if it is still a thing, is definitely not focused on as heavily

eager bay
modest badger
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Choosing to interpret this as a meta question about whether D&D should include slavery in it's themes; That's been a big discussion for not just slavery but many topics for D&D and how they're handled in the lore.

I think in general the attitude isn't that D&D cannot ever discuss topics that are difficult and 'dark', but that such topics always need a more careful approach and should be more 'opt in' than assumed as the default. Things like bigotry, slavery, drugs, sexual themes and so on- all of these are heavier topics, than touch upon real life hurts a lot more than fantasy violence against monsters (which most people consent to simply by playing D&D). They can be exhausting to deal with and make players uncomfortable and ruin enjoyment of the game, or worse portray the themes in harmful ways that continue misconceptions or harmful ideologies. In this case, if D&D actually did portray slavery as a necessary evil that would be a harmful validation of slavery. In the past D&D has also accidently implied that slavery isn't inherently wrong and you can be a slave owner without doing an evil thing (Dark Sun 4e).

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Sometimes it's an approach of 'well, slavery is an evil that exists, so can exist here'. Meta design wise, I don't like that argument very much as there is plenty of 'evil' we chose to never include in a game because it's distressing and we never consented to be confronted by it while playing an escapist fantasy game. Things like bigotry and slavery don't have to be included in the game for the sake of some people's expectations of 'realism'. A similar argument can be made for 'well it's such an easy way to show who the bad guys are, everyone hates slavers right?' and while true, again there are a myriad of other evils we choose not to use to signal that, and many more we can use. And while it might seem cathartic to some, how to handle 'solving' that evil IG can be exhausting or just.. empty to others. A power fantasy of killing off slavers is empowering for some, but also deeply unrealistic to others who are aware that such systems are far more than just individual slavers being bad people and dismantling it takes effort, and pain, and horror.

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Now one difficulty is that FR is considered the default setting by most, so unlike a setting like Dark Sun, which you can explicitly opt into, FR has the issue that it can feel like it's needed to be 'baseline D&D'. Which doesn't have to be true, FR is a patchwork quilt of different genres and themes and you can choose where in FR you play, thus choosing to engage with some themes or not, but it's still a consideration. But FR wasn't always the default setting and FR has slavery. Thayan wizards, grung, drow, genies ... this is lore that is hard to shake now. The ways in which it is discussed and approached could be changed, but removing it entirely, while possible, would be harder to do. We're still struggling to convince some people that not all drow are evil, despite that being the lore since the start, I don't think we'd ever convince people that no drow in FR engages in slavery with that being a main aspect of lolthian culture since the start.

The TL;DR is- Dark themes don't have to be off limits to D&D, but need a more sensitive approach than they've historically been given in the game and ideally should not be part of the 'default' base game but a theme players can opt in/out of engaging with. For FR slavery is already part of the lore and would be hard to remove, but how it's approached and presented to players can be changed.

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I feel though like this could easily go beyond 'lore' and is more about game design. Overlaps a lot, but unless specifically talking about snippets of lore from the books, could easily derail.

sharp owl
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Just gonna say that this appears to be validly on topic for the channel as it's good to have an understanding of how we discuss the lore

grim siren
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Speaking as a realms enthusiast. And somebody who's been living and breathing this setting since the 90s.

The dark themes are not the identity of the realms. And anyone who tells you that it is hasn't explored the realms in its entirety or even a majority.

There are dark themes. Make no mistake. How we approach them in reconciling lore from the '80s and '90s which were written by people who are very talented but writing out of their depth and skill set is very important.

Recent works set in the realm have done a better job at identifying things like slavery as objectively evil. Even if they are third party books by Mr. Greenwood. Plenty of call-outs saying that any interaction in the trade of slaves, is explicitly and non-negotiably evil.

When we discuss these dark topics that can be found in not just the realms but also as mentioned above Athas, or even Greyhawk, It's important to look at them through a historical context and never attach that just because that's how it was done. Regardless of reason, that does not necessarily mean that is how we should be moving forward.

There are plenty of black and white evils that can be found within the lore and things that should not be done. How we choose to interact with those things is critical to designing a safe gaming table.

Always I love Elgate's dissections

jagged apex
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are there any creatures or beings in the lore of dnd, does not matter edition or setting, that are associated with the concept of "ID"? as in the concepts of id, ego and super-ego

grim siren
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Associated with the concept itself but most chaotic outsiders could fit

pine reef
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Could demons be bound into servitude via a magical contract or an infernal contract or their inherent chaotic evil nature makes them unbindable?

iron saffron
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Yes.

pine reef
iron saffron
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Magic.

pine reef
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😄

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OK.

spark haven
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You just named ways it could work

rapid zephyr
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Faustian deal right?

spark haven
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magic, or some kind of (magical) contract

iron saffron
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Even the demon lord Graz'zt was bound by his on/off lover Iggwilv (aka Tasha).

rapid zephyr
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You make them do a deal, and they can't escape

pine reef
spark haven
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A demon could also just agree to something

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Like, with a handshake

pine reef
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OK, if it works it works, thanks.

iron saffron
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Magic is more powerful than a contract (unless it's a magic contract).

spark haven
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Can you trust em? I dunno. But they have...minds, and usually means of communicating

crude blaze
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But hear me out: magical contract

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Beat me to it

spark haven
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get out of here kyubey

crude blaze
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Kyubey… shudders

spark haven
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yeah, there's a real BBEG for ya

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none of this "bwa ha ha i turn every1 into zambonis" nonsense

pine reef
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Can a magical contract be absolute? Like, I'm thinking a defeated demon is bound in complete servitude unable to act against the interests of its victor directly or indirectly via proxy for X perioud or until the death of the victor.

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Is that feasible?

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Lore-wise I mean.

spark haven
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Devils do it

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There's precedent.

pine reef
spark haven
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Describing all of devil lore would take more time than i have

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the Forgotten Realms wiki will cover the broad strokes

crude blaze
spark haven
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But yeah, contracts is their entire gimmick

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Binding contracts, for better or worse.

crude blaze
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Demons typically don’t care much about contracts. They’d likely “serve” you until it suits them, then once they get what they want, they split you in half.

pine reef
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Like, there has to be a magical backlast/consequence if you breech it.

spark haven
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Depends on the contract

iron saffron
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Read the Faustian Pacts section
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Devil

Faustian pacts were considered the most effective tool in the devils' arsenal to corrupt mortals. While copies for both parties existed, the devil gave the mortal's copy only when pressed on the issue. The mortal's blood was used for signature. There were two kinds of contracts that were made with mortals. The devils called them Pact Certain and Pact Insidious, but only among themselves for they were aware that the names sounded too ominous in mortal ears

crude blaze
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Again, there isn’t a lot of super specific lore that dictates how demons interact with contracts (that I know of)

iron saffron
jagged apex
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making one of the amulets like those mentioned in the monster manual tends to make you able to get otherwise stronger or too dangerous demons to work for you

pine reef
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the protected essence?

jagged apex
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and when i say is not a magical item i mean is not something with stats and mechanics or a specific name

pine reef
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aha, found it, thank you.

hollow tartan
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You can make a homebrew amulet that allows you to make a "contract" with a demon

iron saffron
eager bay
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What's good about Ysgard?

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Like, it basically seems like limbo but kind of worse

iron saffron
eager bay
iron saffron
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Read about it as a travel guide.

jagged apex
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if you like glory and battle, ysgard is the plane for you, if you want something more war centric, better off in acheron

sharp owl
# eager bay And? That literally changes nothing

You're basically asking "What's good about Chicago? Like, it basically seems like New York but kind of worse"
There doesn't need to be anything good about it, it's simply a plane where some deities exist

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Not every plane serves a purpose, many don't. Especially demiplanes and astral dominions

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Like Scarletsteam pointed out, it's good if you like the kinds of things the panteon its home to stand for

jagged apex
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if you have planescape, check out it's gate town, buy the way it's gate is described one could argue is ysgard is a place of what most consider Hero to be

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or as to quote the 5e dmg "Ysgard is a rugged realm of soaring mountains, deep fjords, and windswept battlefields, with summers that are long and hot, and winters that are wickedly cold and unforgiving. Its continents float above oceans of volcanic rock, below which are icy caverns so enormous as to hold entire kingdoms of giants, humans, dwarves, gnomes, and other beings. Heroes come to Ysgard to test their mettle not only against the plane itself, but also against giants, dragons, and other terrible creatures that thunder across Ysgard’s vast terrain."

iron saffron
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Each of the Outer Planes of the Great Wheel corresponds with the nine alignments and the gradients inbetween. Ysgard is CG/CN.

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Like all of the Outer Planes, Ysgard serves as the place of afterlife to the souls of the mortals who worship the gods/pantheons who call that particular plane home.

jagged apex
sharp owl
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A much more concise way of putting what I was trying to say

jagged apex
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among many other things

iron saffron
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So what's good about Ysgard? Ask the gods who dwell there and their followers.

sharp owl
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Much like Chicago

iron saffron
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Who has better pizza? Ysgard or Limbo?

crude blaze
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Ysgard. I’m a fan of deep dish.

sharp owl
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Do we have any published reference to pizza or pizza-like food in lore? I know we have coffee in 3 settings, but what about the 'za?

jagged apex
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and depending on who you talk to it is basically the one that basically rewards you with power most fairly, at least the way some lore youtubers have described it

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though that seems to be the only such item listed in that category

sharp owl
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Oh, I was talking across the planes and settings

crude blaze
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I’d figure if any, Strixhaven would be the one that would make most sense to have pizza, but I’m not sure

sharp owl
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Yeah, Strixhaven is one of the coffee settings

crude blaze
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I think their only menu was for the cafe, and was kinda sparse

jagged apex
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basically if you are your typical battle loving and glory seeking barbarian, ysgard is the plane that has what you want in an afterlife in spades, just ask Hrafnul the Bold, who's quote is even on the wiki

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i found it funny to see the implications that despite their elemental nature, in places like strixhaven some kinds of mephits at least enjoy coffee, i just find that funny

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i forget which kinds were mentioned in that regard off the top of my head but i know it was detailed in that free adventure in the setting from a dnd beyond article a while back

crude blaze
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Steam, I believe

jagged apex
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at least in the continuity of the bg games that version of toril has pizza

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though honestly given elminster has gone to earth and brought back german beer, i see no reason why other versions of toril would not be able to have pizza too

jagged apex
crude blaze
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Gotcha

hazy fox
jagged apex
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just calls it german beer

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seems basically any german beer that would purchasable in the united states, presumably the area where yellowstone national park is located, around the year 1894 AD would be fair game

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though does not seem like his wiki page gives any indication the type of beer he prefered or anything else that would narrow it down

eager bay
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The Dungeon Master's Guide on p. 24 describes what happens after someone dies: “its soul departs the Material Plane, travels through the Astral Plane, and goes to abide on the plane where the creature's deity resides. If the creature didn't worship a deity, its soul departs to the plane corresponding to its alignment.

iron saffron
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Again, from what I've posted earlier above. Ysgard, like the other Outer Planes, are the "afterlife" for mortals' souls. Each of the Outer Planes correspond to the nine alignments and the gradients between. Ysard is CG/CN.

eager bay
iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

eager bay
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Most chaotic neutral arch mages just want to be left alone

iron saffron
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CN archmages can worship gods who aren't CN and reside in Ysgard

eager bay
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And what about cloakers?

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Or darklings?

jagged apex
jagged apex
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no idea where you are getting ideas like that

jagged apex
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and cloakers are aberrations, they are not what people mean usually when they reffer to mortals

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and to my knowledge we don't even know if cloakers even have souls or an afterlife or even believe in such things, sure we know from the lore historically they have their own sorts of societies but not nessissarily what we would consider a society

jagged apex
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cuz at least you get an afterlife

eager bay
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I could have saved millions, but if I still value my freedom and the things I care about more then helping others, I get to either endlessly suffer and die, or get basically an endless void of chaos and nothingness?

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That seems kinda messed up

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It's like saying "you just barely didn't make the cut-off to join the beastlands, so enjoy enternal pain and death in a slightly better version of hell"

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No wonder liches exist

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If I was chaotic neutral and found out near the end that I was getting punked over by the multiverse for not worshiping a god or worse yet worshipping the wrong god all my life, I'd butcher whoever I had to so that I could avoid that too

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At least in hell they have the decency to actually be honest about it being a hellscape

jagged apex
eager bay
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Also, Limbo lowkey seems more pleasant

jagged apex
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it is not

eager bay
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Instead of suffering forever, you just stop existing

jagged apex
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you are the one assuming you are suffering in ysgard

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fact is, you are not

eager bay
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Or do they somehow remove all pain?

jagged apex
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everyone that dies there is literally raised back to life

eager bay
jagged apex
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quote again of the dmg "Ysgard is the home of slain heroes who wage eternal battle on fields of glory. Any creature, other than a construct or undead, that is killed by an attack or a spell while on Ysgard is restored to life at dawn the next day. The creature has all its hit points restored, and all conditions and afflictions it suffered before its death are removed."

eager bay
jagged apex
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no

eager bay
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"You froze to death and felt every bit of it. Now try again"

jagged apex
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fundimentally when you become a petitioner, you are not really a mortal any more, you are fundimentally different at your core

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you become an extra planar being

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you seem to be missing the major element of it being a place of gloryous battles, but that is not the only sort of thing to do there

eager bay
jagged apex
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no

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you do not HAVE to engage in battle just cuz you are in ysgard

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there are litterally beings there who just chill and drink

eager bay
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Like, is there a rule combat must be consensual?

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Or is it a situation where it just happens on the lowest rings?

jagged apex
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i highly recommend reading the wiki if you have not, as a lot of this stuff is covered there last i checked

eager bay
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Also, what happens if you die on ebberon?

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Or another place with extra or different planes?

jagged apex
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eberron has it's own planes, do to it's nature of a self contained cosmology

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the majority of settings use the same planes, unless the setting info says otherwise as is the case with self contained cosmologies like eberron

eager bay
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According to the video you just sent me

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If you don't die in combat, you die forever

jagged apex
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dying as an extra planar being is often not the same as we mortals view it

eager bay
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You don't get brought back

jagged apex
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honestly in ysgard it is hard to die for good, as normally extra planar beings dying on their home plane are gone for good

eager bay
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If you choke on food you die

jagged apex
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life as a petitioner =/= life as a mortal

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you are clearly viewing it as if it were the same as if you were still mortal

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also, there is no way you watched both those videos to see if either of them explained it in a better way for you

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as both videos are roughly 30 minutes or more and you just kept going on as if they were not presented as a way at attempting to understand it

jagged apex
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like they'd be surrounded by enemies effectively, and not in the way anyone wants to be even in ysgard

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like the majority of the stuff you seem to be considering and worrying about are not something that would be at all even remotely common on that plane

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at least to my knowledge

eager bay
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So one of the three of us was misinformed or is misunderstanding something

jagged apex
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is a possibility yes, but not a common one

eager bay
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Seems weird to me

spark haven
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It is. You're starting to come to the realization that living a finite lifespan and then being assigned a box to sit in for a eternity based on your actions is a kind of intrinsically unfair way to account for people's choices. But there's no rule saying the fictional universes of DnD games have any reason to be fair.

eager bay
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I can give some actually reasonable ends

jagged apex
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this is not harry potter

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these planes are metaphysical concepts made based on the thoughts and beliefs of mortals all over the multiverse

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plus petitioners rarely even remember their lives before hand

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the natural order of the dnd cosmos, basically historically at least to my knowledge separates your memories and your soul, leaving you with vauge emotional memories if anything, and part of the reason gods like kelemvore exist is so that it is made as fair as possible, as you don't instantly wind up in your afterlife on death

magic jackal
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moguls are rich or powerful people

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still doesn't really make sense tho

jagged apex
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i doubt rich or powerful people are are dying having lived mostly a chaotic good or chaotic neutral life anyway, maybe once in a blue moon

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in the past, though resently was retconned even within 5e, there was the likes of the faithless that was a possible faith if you basically did not even acknowledge the gods

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like the only sort of powerful people i imagine are actually likely to wind up in ysgard are the kind that actually match up with those ideals, wealth and power are not really factors and at best any power would be an afterthought

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besides, unless that power was innate to their very being or soul, it would not even be a thing that applied to their afterlife and they would not even remember their mortal life unless a god or similar power went trough hectic task of preserving and reuniting that petitioner with their memories, which historically is rarely done cuz of how much of a pain it is to actually do successfully, even for the gods

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honestly i think may just be that shad-yxx's understanding of alignment and the outerplanes and the afterlife, at least in the context of the lore of dnd is flawed or is working off some inaccuracies cuz a lot of the stuff he brought up is not really a problem usually for those in ysgard and others like the mogul thing don't really even make sense

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plus with the gods in dnd often on worlds where they exist like they do in the forgotten realms for example they are a confirmed part of existence, unlike say eberron or our own world, so likely the majority of mortals will be faithful to some god by the time they die, not to mention while your soul is basically waiting to be judged or escorted to your afterlife, devils can still try to convince them into coming with them to the nine hells instead

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plus he did not seem to understand what an afterlife is defined as in dnd and kept viewing the concepts of life and death as the same weather you are mortal or not, which is not the case if you are reading and actually following the lore

eager bay
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Bullys, warlords, moguls

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All aligned with Ysgard

jagged apex
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the fated of planescape is not a book

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as for planescape, adventures in the multiverse, that is the multiverse, the dnd multiverse, primarily the outer planes just like the 2e version

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you seem to be ignoring things in context of dnd

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context is important

eager bay
eager bay
# jagged apex no, they are not

Fated
Who Take All They Can and More

Factol: Duke Rowan Darkwood

Headquarters: Hall of Records

Aligned Plane: Ysgard

Members: Bullies, moguls, warlords

Epithet: Takers

To the Fated, the multiverse belongs to those with the strength to take it. Destiny and the will of the gods are poor excuses used by folk too weak to go after what they want—everyone makes their own fate. At the same time, nothing’s free. It takes work, dedication, and sometimes blood to seize greatness.

There’s no inherent malice in the Fated’s philosophy. It takes more than material wealth to provide for one’s needs, and not everything worth having can be taken by force. Respect and happiness, for example, must be earned (or bought). Still, Takers are branded as callous and selfish, if not outright feared, and they never offer assistance willingly unless it benefits them in some way

jagged apex
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that is a faction, completly different

eager bay
jagged apex
eager bay
jagged apex
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no, you are missing the point of what i keep trying to explain to you

eager bay
jagged apex
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it isn't

eager bay
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As far as I know, the only explanation of the planes we have is the DMG

jagged apex
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the planes are infinite in scale and they are limited in how much they can fit in any one product

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the gate towns give you a bit of insight to life on the respective plane of existance it is associated with

ionic rivet
#

also this is a game, not the actual real version of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

#

The lore is just flavor to make the game feel real.

spark haven
#

someone has to pay the writers for those extra paragraphs, and that money in turn has to come from somewhere

jagged apex
#

the more they would have put in on the planes themself, the less info they could have with the info that was actually relevant to the adventure included

#

is is not anyone's fault, let alone the game of the company that owns the IP and is putting out products for it that the default is not to your personal preferences

ionic rivet
#

There is also a general D&D community trend to not want large, in-depth lore that is often plagued with concepts that continue/perpetuate harm towards certain populations who see connections to their own cultural stories.

jagged apex
#

especially since as is, saddly most people don't seem to bother using the outerplanes in their games, despite the fact that in dnd death is not a character's end to their journey unless you make it that way

#

kind of like with why we for so long did not get a lot of high level monsters, cuz most people would not be in those levels of play, but again that is not really a lore thing so we should probably move on to another actual lore topic

ionic rivet
#

Anyhow I think this topic has been well hashed over now - you want more than what you're getting, others want big lore tomes, others are happy with what they're getting, others want little to no lore at all.

#

And D&D trying to sell games is trying to find a good-enough middle between all that.

#

Anyway, take care - I need to dip for now.

jagged apex
#

an Arcanaloth is not merely a race or a species

#

for extra planar beings, while they can behave different from their moral norms, often it is drastically more difficult without their nature being altered by say the energies of another plane, at least when compared to a mortal

#

extra planar beings much like the outer planes themself and all other life in them are largely metaphysical in nature, is to my understanding why unlike mortals, their body and soul are one in the same, rather than two sides/parts of a whole

#

plus is worth remembering
could =/= would

#

just cuz one can do something, does not mean they will do it, this is no different in fiction unless stated otherwise

serene crater
#

quick question, though this is more tied towards mtg lore, just trying to do some prep for my campaign. I had an idea to bring in Rona as a more personal nemesis to one of the characters in a what if case as I wanted to have it that due to strange effects (mainly magic either casted by others or before phyresis) that she actually survived the invasion, albeit her phyrexian limbs no longer functioned and was reduced to using magic prosthetics. though I wanted to as for rp reasons (making sure to at least stay true to her personality), what would be someone like hers reaction to watching the invasion go up in flames and being almost one of the last ones left?

jagged apex
#

not that familiar with mtg, but from what i could find her personality is not really addressed it seems, which kind of makes sense cuz to my knowledge none of the planes of mtg she has been associated with have been adapted into dnd campaign settings so far

sharp owl
lapis gate
#

OH!

gentle coral
#

So kinda new to non homebrew stuff here, if a fiend dies in the nine hells do they die for good? Does that apply to tiamat since shes a fiend?

unkempt merlin
#

Yes and no

#

Tiamat is a god, her physical form is just an avatar. She will reform after a time.

gentle coral
crude blaze
#

Yeah, at least as far as 5E goes, there’s no surefire way to permakill a god

unkempt merlin
#

An avatar being killed limits the physical direct actions the god can take upon the world. The time it takes for it to reform is up to the setting/dm.

grim siren
#

Take a look at the new DM's guild release chains of asmodeus. That way you can kind of gauge a proper stat block for a deity in their home domain. It even talks about him. Reforming after a certain number of days.

crude blaze
#

Also worth acknowledging its not official

unkempt merlin
#

Same concept with him really. Still an avatar.

gentle coral
#

I see. I'll check it out anyway since it sounds interesting, and thanks c:

unkempt merlin
#

(Not to mention he is a greater deity to tiamats lesser, so the power of the avatars reflects that)

gentle coral
#

the no dying rule applies to lesser deities as well then

grim siren
#

It generally applies to all levels of divinity

For in universe ways to kill the deity not necessarily tied to mechanics since mechanics is not really a part of this channel. One of the primary ways a couple of settings have done to permanently kill a god is to steal their divine spark. Which is essentially their access to divinity. It makes them mortal for a time being.

That allows a campaign to really explore a lot of metaphysical and philosophical truths about divinity.

unkempt merlin
gentle coral
#

Well thats all I wanted to know, appreciate the help ^^

grand sigil
#

If you delve into deep lore Asmodeus as we see him is an avatar anyway
The actual body is deep into serpent's coil

#

For his case anyway

gentle coral
#

About that I do have one more question actually

#

How strong are avatars compared to say, cr30 monsters like tiamat

#

Greater god avatars for instance

#

Is it up to the dm?

crude blaze
#

The only two official avatars we have in 5E are CR30 already. The Avatars of Tiamat and Bahamut.

unkempt merlin
gentle coral
#

And are still cr30

grand sigil
#

Personnally I would say it depends on the use the avatar have

crude blaze
#

Well, we have Auril, but her stats are kinda… stranger

unkempt merlin
#

Tiamat has 2 avatars, auril has 3. But hers ||are explicitly weakened||

crude blaze
#

Either way, safe to say that if we were to get stats for the avatars of greater gods, they’d likely be stronger than CR30

gentle coral
#

As a dm guess you can make them around that level with the excuse of them being weakened

#

I kinda wanted bane as one of the big bads in my first campaign

#

Maybe have one of his chosen fight instead

unkempt merlin
#

While not official, the asmodeus one talked about prior is significantly stronger than either tiamat, while still being cr30

grand sigil
#

Honestly for greater deities avatar, i would just make them a "you lose" button and never make them face the players

unkempt merlin
#

Cr30 is more a cap for an enemy statblock than anything else

crude blaze
#

I find the best way to use a greater deity in a campaign is to make them a background villain and not something you actually swing a sword at

gentle coral
grand sigil
#

Yeah, asmodeus from chains can just summon the entire roster of archdevil, one at a turn

#

He's mad OP

gentle coral
#

Guess I'll make the bbeg something like bane's chosen then judging by the official power levels

grand sigil
#

My policy about god is that beyond CR 20 some people can worship creatures as gods and recieve some sort of power from it, but actual gods are just not stated

#

Archevils like zariel are an example, CR 24-25 and she has warlocks

sharp owl
#

Let's keep things on topic please

runic totem
#

What do people in Myrkul's cult believe? If it's just that death is amazing, why don't they commit suicide

modest badger
#

It's not that death is amazing, it's that it's powerful and to be feared and respected.
Also, You need to stay alive in order to spread the teachings of a god and do their will.

#

Duties of a Myrkul preist are more things like:

  • Ensuring someone dies comfortably
  • Dealing with dead bodies and seeing that they're treated with respect
  • guarding graveyard
  • making everyone fear them
  • sometimes dealing out vengence on behalf of the dead or seeing to their last wishes.
iron saffron
# runic totem What do people in Myrkul's cult believe? If it's just that death is amazing, why...

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Church_of_Myrkul#Beliefs

They believed that death was an inevitability of life, an aspect that mortals should not attempt to flee. As such, they held the influence of the dead in extremely high regard.

While many Faerûnians openly made offerings to Myrkul out of fear, such as during funeral services or when honoring their dead, his clergy were more secretive in their worship. As was the common perception, these faithful were a reclusive and macabre lot who remained stoic, almost aloof, to their surroundings. They often concealed their pre-church lives from their fellow clergy and membership within the church from those outside. Yet there were some followers of Myrkul that sincerely romanticized the concept of death and joined due to their attraction to the teachings of Myrkul's high priests.

autumn bridge
#

Priests of Myrkul actually caring for the dead?

jagged apex
#

yeah, being a god of death does not mean you just want everything dead

autumn bridge
#

I was thinking more like raising Undead but he is not a deity I’m familiar with too much

#

I’m thinking to add the possibility of a Good aligned Red Dragon for my own setting and I’m trying to wrap my head around it.

iron saffron
#

The god of murder wants you dead.

jagged apex
#

or orcus, demon prince of undeath

autumn bridge
#

I read somewhere that Myrkul is a lot less about Undead and he serves Kelemvor

jagged apex
#

yeah kelemvor out ranks him and is his superior

autumn bridge
#

Poor Bhaal got the short end of the stick

iron saffron
#

Myrkul is a quasi-deity now, having lost most of his divine power after being killed.

jagged apex
#

eh, not really, he chose poorly, they all claimed what they wanted when they did their games of chance

jagged apex
#

meaning gods had to delegate to their chosen and their other followers if they want to get involved or try to otherwise influence something

#

the dead 3, of course did not care and continued to be more or less directly involved when conducting their schemes, but that is my understanding at least, i could be wrong potentially

#

also, speaking of myrkul, is it just me or is kind of odd for autumn to be in his portfolio, cuz the other seem at least on theme or related to death in more obvious ways, so maybe i am just missing something

autumn bridge
#

Autumn is the end of the cycle, the death I suppose

jagged apex
#

i guess that makes sense if it is true, otherwise still seems odd, or at the very least is less obvious, but given his portfolio people that die in autumn while very elderly of exhaustion must give him a heck of surge of divine power

autumn bridge
#

Out of the dead three Myrkul scares me the least really

jagged apex
#

fair, he honestly seems the most dedicated to his job out of the 3, though most effective definitely goes to Bane

autumn bridge
#

Bane is all about efficiency. That’s the respectable part. Bhaal is just…. Nope

grim siren
#

Wasn't myrkul that created the now missing wall of the faithless

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge last i checked Bane maintained the majority of his power the longest before they all were reduced to their current status

grim siren
#

It was a really screwed up thing that he did with that. Thankfully irl thats gone

autumn bridge
#

Mind you there are worse deities than Myrkul or Bane out there

jagged apex
#

else i am not seeing anything mentioning him creating the wall

#

otherwise his own history implies he was at least in charge of it, regardless if he created it or not

autumn bridge
#

I admit a Cleric of Myrkul would be interesting to play.

grim siren
#

To be fair on the sourcing that game came out in 2007 and the next mention of the wall was in SCAG which it then got erratad I have those physical books. The wall was mentioned in a home. I'll have to check those when I get back

pine reef
#

Mask of the Betrayer was one of my most favorite games. Which reminds me, is there a non-game precedent for the soul-eating ability? Like an entity that can devour souls and increase its own power is a snowball universe-ending threat in the making no?

jagged apex
#

closest thing i know of are the fiends Barghest and Nabassu, which are specific types of fiends in dnd, otherwise is something supposidly fiends and some undead cando in the lore

#

but nothing that extreme as what you are hoping for

pine reef
#

Interesting. Another question; is there any special ores in the Abyss? Like Hells have Infernal Iron.

jagged apex
#

probably, all of if not most of the outer planes have unique resources be they minerals, ores, ect...

#

mainly detailed in past editions to my knowledge

#

which one for which edition, idk

magic fog
#

correct me if I'm wrong, but the planet for 5e is still Abeir-Toril, right?

obsidian gate
#

its the planet of the forgotten realms setting. Which is the most prominent setting in 5e, but not its default and not its only setting by any means

jagged apex
modest badger
#

Yeah they drifted apart again if I recall.

SCAG has this line in 'Shifting of the Seasons' page 15:

The worlds of Abeir and Toril drifted apart in 1487 and 1488 DR.

And I believe 5e Forgotten Realms is set in post 1489

obsidian gate
#

ah right, but Abeir left some stuff on toril afaik, like the current dragonborn

modest badger
#

Yeah, it left influences. And right, 'Present Age' in SCAG ends on 1489, so 5e is post 1489 DR

manic moat
#

What’s the difference between an ancient dragon and a greatwyrm?

#

Like, i know a greatwyrm is obviously stronger

#

But lore wise how are they different? How is a greatwyrm born?

modest badger
#

A greatwyrm isn't really born, it's just the next stage after ancient

obsidian gate
#

some greatwyrms achieved that status by combining echoes of themselves from different universes, others are just obscenely rich and 1200+ years old

manic moat
#

Ohh i see thanks

#

So basically an ancient dragon becomes a greatwyrm as time passes

unkempt merlin
#

No

modest badger
#

Certainly in older editions, although 5e does imply it's a bit more involved now (so sorry for my confusing answer)

obsidian gate
#

they also have to be millionairs

unkempt merlin
#

Much like all age categories, a dragon doesn't reach the next age category via just time

manic moat
modest badger
#

It's not just age, but also an accumulation of power. Gold and items and hoards actually empower dragons

obsidian gate
#

a dragon's wealth is tied to its power

manic moat
modest badger
#

Wyrms often also need to do something else, like merging with alternate serlves, such as Omegon said,

unkempt merlin
#

A dragons age category is linked to both their literal age and the size/contents of their hoards

manic moat
#

I see thanks y’all

unkempt merlin
#

To quote a bit from fizbans

Many result from ancient dragons ritually combining multiple echoes of themselves into a single corporeal form, as Ashardalon and Chronepsis are said to have done. Most greatwyrms are at least twelve centuries old and have hoards worth millions of gold pieces, but they are otherwise similar to other ancient dragons in their goals and perspectives.

#

Ancient dragons only sometimes become greatwyrms too

manic moat
#

What does ‘echo of themselves’ mean?

unkempt merlin
#

A reflection of that dragons from a different world. It's a concept explained thoroughly in Fizbans

manic moat
#

I see thank you

tranquil heron
#

Who are the most powerful or well-known entities in the far realm? I know of Cthulhu and one other I can't think of the name of, but I'm looking for others.

eager bay
#

So, what happens if you die twice?

#

Like if you go to an outer plane and then die there, you just stop existing, right?

jagged apex
#

@eager bay potentially, at least as of 5e planescape quote "A petitioner or another Celestial or Fiend that is destroyed can reconstitute on a plane that shares its alignment after 100 years, or it might choose to become one with that plane and never return. A creature that re-forms on the planes multiple times becomes increasingly dissimilar from its original mortal form."

#

so either you wait a 100 years to respawn or you stop existing as your soul becomes part of the plane, both are potential possibilities

jagged apex
#

elder evils in general, but not all are nessissarily associated with or tied to the far realm, let alone from it

pine reef
#

this thing, this Pandorym is able to beat Gods?

jagged apex
#

yes, or at least is a legit threat to them, some gods likely would be able to fair better than others

#

the wiki defines elder evils as "Elder evils were ancient, powerful, and generally evil beings or entities. Their power could rival, or even surpass, that of demigods, such that they could destroy an entire world"

#

so maybe not true gods, but if they are in a weak enough state or low enough status it seems reasonable

eager bay
#

How does the great wheel actually work?

#

Like is that just an interpretation of how the planes work or is it more set in stone then just an interpretation?

iron saffron
#

It's a cosmology of the planes.

#

There are different cosmologies, like the World Tree (pre 5E FR)

eager bay
iron saffron
#

Each campaign setting has their own cosmology. Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms share the Great Wheel (FR previous used the World Tree)

#

Dragonlance has its own.

#

Don't overthink this.

spark haven
#

It's a metaphor, yes. the universe is not strictly literally shaped like a wheel/circle. Usually.

iron saffron
#

The wheel part of the Great Wheel represents the Inner Planes around the Material Plane and the Outer Planes encircling the Outlands (Sigl).

jagged apex
#

otherwise, i would arguably look at the adventure "TURN OF FORTUNE’S WHEEL" as without going into spoilers it arguably gives a pretty good idea

#

at least as far as "how it works", depending on what you mean by that

iron saffron
#

I've think we've answered that question many times before, explaining the D&D cosmologies.

#

They can refer to the FR wiki if need be.

jagged apex
#

basically it all gets very metaphysical when you start involving the outerplanes in any capacity, as they are metaphysical by nature

eager bay
#

Hey all could use some help

iron saffron
#

With?

eager bay
#

So I have a campaign idea in the Forgotten Realms since reading Brimstone Angels

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

unless maybe your are wanting to know something as to the relation of how it appears in published lore

eager bay
#

Wanted to a campaign in Tymanther in Djread Thymar 5 years after Brimstone but have no idea about what the post-war landscape would look like

jagged apex
#

so how much is it wanting to know the lore of something and how much is campaign idea prep

eager bay
#

Lore

#

And then I’ll move this to campaign prep

jagged apex
eager bay
#

I guess it’s more…lore discussion to give me an opening point

jagged apex
#

if you can't find it there, i would definitely try asking ed greenwood via something like X/twitter or his own discord

eager bay
#

Heh heh

#

Funny enough you mention that

jagged apex
#

as it is basically a part of toril that wizards of the coast has kind of avoided touching on in the modern day

eager bay
#

I talked to Erin M. Evans on Reddit once lol

iron saffron
#

If it's not in the Sword Coast WotC will probably won't touch it for 5E...

jagged apex
#

only time will tell, but so far more often than not in regards to toril they tend to hyper focus on the sword coast, they have deviated sometimes, but not often

#

like i believe at least one of the adventures in candlekeep mysteries was in such a location, near the shinning south from what i am aware and i don't believe it is technically considered part of what is known as the sword coast

#

so it seems that may be the latest published lore, in any of the continuities, for that part of toril we have, the rest one would have to go off of their best reasoning, logic, and what events may have occurred in the areas surrounding it and how it may have effected things

#

presumably much like any other war, they would be rebuilding what was destroyed and caring for the injured or bury the dead who are not able to be resurrected for one reason or another, if i had to make an educated guess

eager bay
#

I’ve read both of these

#

But I discover I have better brainstorming with other people

iron saffron
eager bay
#

Alright sorry I’ll bring this over to the other channel

jagged apex
#

maybe try #dm-world-building first since you are trying to flesh out a part of a setting that is not nessissarily up to date

eager bay
#

Okay

digital hill
#

What do devils do with souls they "bargain" for? Do they all become lemures?

obsidian gate
#

souls are also used as currency and get stuck in soul coins

digital hill
#

So like warlocks and people who make deals with devils get stuffed in coins after death?

obsidian gate
#

depends on the deal

grim siren
#

They can or cannot. They can also become devils themselves upon their death, at which point they will be the either subservient to their master. Or more commonly they become fodder for the blood war , but at least a little bit better than a lemure

obsidian gate
#

yeah powerful souls might skip the lemure stage

digital hill
#

So it's just dependent on what their master does with them? None of this seems even remotely appealing, so idk how anyone would make such deals

grim siren
#

When you're making a deal with a devil, you're probably not thinking about the afterlife. And probably thinking about the here and now

#

And if you were given the choice of being on the rack or the person who turns the rack, most evil people, that's a pretty easy choice

obsidian gate
#

desperation, trickery or overconfidence could all be reasons for such deals for example

digital hill
#

Yeah true

iron saffron
#

Can you be more specific rather than vague?

obsidian gate
#

I dont know if she is the most conflicted, but Zariel did come to mind first for me.

#

being a fallen angel for understandable reasons and all that

iron saffron
#

D&D Youtubers such as AJ Pickett, Mr. Rhexx, and Jorphdan covers D&D lore. That said, some of their stuff is speculation rather than citing official books (I'm looking at you, Mr. Rhexx!)

#

You'll probably find them in the novels.

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

like when she first fell from grace, the majority of the time she is able to justify her actions by her own view of how righteous her actions are over all

#

like if she was a class, i could easily see her having much in common with zealot barbarians

torpid oak
#

Hi! I’m sure questions like this are asked a lot, but I was wondering if someone could please help me with some questions about Drow aging 😭😭 because I’m rather new to the game and I want to make a Drow character for my next campaign. Online it says that Drow reach adulthood at around age 80, but I wonder if that’s considered adulthood by Drow society but they’re mentally developed enough to be an adult to others, or like that’s actually real adulthood for the race bcs they mentally develop slower or something

#

Thanks so so much for any help in advance <33

modest badger
#

That's cultural adulthood in drow society. Elves generally physically and mentally mature around the same rate as humans, but culturally have a higher age bracket for being seen as full adults.

#

Elves in general:

Age. Although elves reach physical maturity at about the same age as humans, the elven understanding of adulthood goes beyond physical growth to encompass worldly experience. An elf typically claims adulthood and an adult name around the age of 100 and can live to be 750 years old.

With Drow in some lore books being given a lower age of adulthood and also a lower life expectancy compared to other elves, due to the harsher enviroment they grow up in. (And so drow who grow up in other environments might find their life expectancy and when they're considered adults to be different to that of the ages given for underdark lolthian drow)

torpid oak
tardy wasp
#

How do half-elven priests operate within the religious structures of a Seldarine deity's church?

Like, how does a half-elf priest of Corellon minister to a community that is of a more arcane and fey-like mindset than s/he may be? Or how does a half-elf priest of Sehanine properly counsel the laity when s/he has no past-life memories that could influence their dreams?

iron saffron
#

Elves pretty much forget their past lives by age 100.

jagged apex
sacred root
#

Hey, I’m gonna make a fake magazine talking about various different parts of the Forgotten realms lore, to practice my design skills as a student and to help some of my fellow players wrap their head around it.

What should I do first? (Doesn’t have to be chronological) (can focus on an event, person, object, or concept, or location!)

iron saffron
storm dagger
#

On Devils and Soul Deals. Most Mortals don’t know what their exact fate will be.

sharp owl
#

Is that a question or a statement?

storm dagger
#

Statement

sharp owl
#

ok

storm dagger
#

Most mortals are ignorant of the hells and what happens there

sharp owl
#

I don't think those two things are as related as you may think. People who end up making deals with devils tend to be aware of devils in the first place. And devils being lawful evil, the exact and very specific details of what will happen are laid out in the infernal contracts. If a mortal doesn't know what their fate will be, it's because they didn't read or fully comprehend the contract
However, there are lots of in-lore examples of mortals who have made such deals, fully know the consequences, and attempt or attempted to get out of the contract (multiple in Descent into Avernus)

storm dagger
#

The ones in descent are part of a major plot and are full accomplices, who know their stuff.

sharp owl
#

Is there context for your statement? Are you replying to someone or some topic?

storm dagger
#

It was being talked about earlier

#

Most souls become Lemures when they go to hell

#

The ones who make better deals may skip that step

restive summit
#

Do we know what cosmic realignment in the Outlands looks like when it happens? (In any edition of dnd)

#

And if not, how would the DMs among you describe it in your campaigns?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge we are not really told, closest thing i know of is in the adventure "Turn of Fortune's Wheel" and even then it does not exactly pain a clear picture at least from what i can gather from reading it

jagged apex
jagged apex
storm dagger
# jagged apex from my understanding is less they skip that step and more so are quickly promot...

Well a better deal is skipping that step because being turned into a Lemure involves being dunked into the River Styx losing all of your memories and being tortured.
One villain from Descent, if he dies, gets to skip steps and become one of the strongest types of devils as part of his deal, while keeping his memory and personality (But he has a weak personality, and is a coward, so it shows why they destroy that).

jagged apex
#

well last i checked souls that manifest in hell either wind up as larvae or lemure, seems to imply lemures more often than not, so is not really something a mortal soul that winds up in hell via natural means or a deal with a devil can actually completely skip normally to my knowledge

storm dagger
#

Larva is over in Hades

#

They just get traded away

jagged apex
#

no, is in the lower planes in general

#

hades just has the most idea, not too ridget, not too chaotic

odd fossil
#

I assume this is the right channel to ask in but what are the dimensions of dnd coinage? Trying to make true to life dnd currency props for my players using my resin printer

jagged apex
#

which details such info

#

@odd fossil hopefully those above links help

clear pine
#

Would an adopted member of a Cormyrean noble family be considered a legitimate member of the noble family? And if yes would they suffer some sort of prejudice for it?

grim siren
#

So I posted this question over in Ed Greenwood's personal discord server and we got this answer back.

If the person was willingly adopted then yes they would be considered a legitimate member of the noble family. Even if they were an illegitimate child. The names and titles with pass on. As far as mistreatment that probably would not happen. Mostly because in the cases of illegitimacy they're not going to tell the royal scribes that, which forces the scribes themselves to balk at the potentially illegitimate child. Which is a situation they don't want to find themselves in. So the Royal scribes leave such debates for the Heralds of Faerûn.

Which is an organization that deals with family lines of Noble houses, heraldry and matters of state across all countries and nations of the continent to make sure that everything is consistent.

brazen kindle
#

So does anyone know if there's any lore on the northern realm of Vassa in Faerun? i have never really read anything on it.

pine reef
#

What Gods are dead and rotting in the Astral Plane in late 15th century from Toril?

jagged apex
grim siren
slow river
#

sorry not sure if this is the right channel, but in the feywilds, are the stars the same as in faerún or is it up to DM discretion?

signal sigil
wheat wedge
#

Alright so I'm completely know to all of this. And I'm watching yt to learn the basics on how to play but I really wanna learn lore. Doesn't anyone know any good yt channels or books (or literally anything) on lore?

grim siren
#

Which setting?

#

Current Supported Settings are

Spelljammer: Space Fantasy A la Flash Gordon and Treasure Planet

Strixhaven: A Magic the Gathering take on "We have Harry Potter at Home."

Ravenloft: A Horror based setting where everything always sucks so bad.

Dragonlance: What if a World War happened in Fantasy?

Ravnica: A Magic the Gathering take on "The whole planet is one city."

Wildemount: From the popular series Critical Role.

Theros: A Magic the Gathering take on Ancient Greece

Eberron: What if low Magic was widely accessible, very punk cold war style.

The Radiant Citadel: A city on a big crystal that is the definition of a cultural melting pot.

Planescape: Metaphysics the place.

The Forgotten Realms: The most common setting, its a land of a thousand stories. where almost anything can happen. It is kitchen sink and themeless by design so it can be what ever you need it to be.

wheat wedge
#

I'll start with The Forgotten Realms

grim siren
#

Okay so on the Forgotten Realms, I recommend one Youtube Channel though there are others and some books.

Channel: Jorphdan his forgotten realms explained series is perfect for onboarding.

Books:

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide is good for the Sword Coast Region where most modules are but does little justice to the rest of the setting. This is the most up to date offical information.

Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting 3rd Edition. Its lore is 100 years out of date but its the most comprehensive package of the Realms. Can be bought in PDF on DMsGUILD.

Grand History of the Realms. A time line of everything FR through 3rd edition. Can be bought in PDF on DMsGUILD.

crude hinge
#

How does the education system in DnD work?

#

Is there training/education in STEM/social science fields? I assume bards have bard colleges and there are a lot of magic colleges and educational institutions, but are there like social science/STEM divisions or any sort of traditional research?

modest badger
#

Depends heavily on the system and location within the system

#

Halruua in Forgotten Realms has a pretty detailed education system and expectations of it's citizens.
Other places might not have schools.

grim siren
#

Halruaa my beloved

jagged apex
#

in short there is no unified schooling system, each school or academy opperates on their own, at least to my knowledge, unlike in the usa of our own world, education is not really required

#

is a sort of luxary as some would probably consider it

jagged apex
#

is more so an organization, like how druids have circles

crude hinge
#

Ah

jagged apex
#

though if looking for a sort of template for your own campaigns, that is largely what strixhaven was marketed as it's major selling point

clear pine
teal wharf
#

Are Saints in Forgotten Realms exclusively Avatars and Chosen of their respective deity, or are there people who achieve Sainthood without divine imbuement?

iron saffron
#

Exarchs

#

Avatars are aspects of the deities themselves.

teal wharf
iron saffron
#

Saints don't seem to be divine. They're just followers who sacrificed themselves for their deities. It seems like Ilmater has the most saints according to the FR wiki but that's not surprising since Ilmater's dogma is sacrificing oneself for others.

jagged apex
#

saints are basically to a faith as celebraties are to popculture

grand sigil
#

Hi ! I'm running a campaign in the nine hells right now, and I was wondering : which sin would you associate to each layer of the nine hells ? Some are pretty obvious like avernus and wrath, or minauros and greed, but i'm wondering about the others, less obvious
Also am i off topic ? I'm not sure

sharp owl
grand sigil
#

Wasn't sure, since the nine hells is a canon part of dnd's lore, thanks

sharp owl
#

Yes, but maping non-lore concepts to it such as the seven deadly sins would be outside that

inland vault
#

I don't know where to ask about this, but I was wondering if anyone had leonin lore that they have for a specific campaign! I'm trying to get ideas for my characters background and unfortunately I haven't been able to find much lore related to leonins!

modest badger
#

Leonin are interesting as they're a Magic the Gathering race, so you could look to MTG lore on them but for D&D lore all we have is what is in the Theros book.

#

Beyond that gets a bit more homebrewy. You could in other settings make up your own lore with the DM, or maybe have them be a type of tabaxi and so on.

sharp owl
#

Yeah, Leonin don't have lore outside the MtG settings and it gets a little weird because the same race will appear on different planes, but with no shared ancestry or anything

#

This is largely because MtG is a competative card game first and the lore comes second even in top-down designed sets. Leonin is the name for any humanoid type creature with the cat subtype

#

For example, Cat Cleric, Cat Soldier, Cat Giant or Cat Wizard

jagged apex
sharp owl
#

Leonin lore on Theros is interesting; they're a pariah'd nomadic people that lives outside the city states of the humans. They have a contencious relationship with the various gods, being culturally iconoclastic

#

They live out on the plains (which is why in MtG mechanics they're aligned with white mana primarily) and tend to not interact well with the city dwelling peoples

eager bay
#

So, apparently killing and eating humanoid species is a neutral act

#

It depends on the circumstance

#

Cause lizardfolk do it whenever it's convenient

#

At least according to the lore

magic jackal
#

A thing that is neutral can do non neutral things.

#

And an act can be different alignments based on the factors that motivate it.

#

A tiger eating a person is not an evil act just by virtue of it being a killing and consumption of a humanoid, for example.

#

So your conclusion is inaccurate.

iron saffron
#

Animals (aka Beast creatures types) are Unaligned. They are not sentient/sapient enough to have ethics and morals to have alignment. Carnivores kill to survive because it's in their instinctual nature to do so.

#

So a (True) Neutral creature is balanced between the Law-Chaos and Good-Evil axes in terms of ethics and morality, respectively.

jagged apex
#

them being people eating monsters is literally in universe reffered to as a stereotype

#

this is even the case in greyhawk as you can see with the ways the events of ghost of saltmarsh can play out, as that adventure is by default set in the greyhawk setting, so is not like is specific to the lizardfolk of the forgotten realms

iron saffron
#

5E Ghosts of Saltmarsh is setting agnostic but the original modules were set in Greyhawk.

jagged apex
#

if they have to kill a human in self defense, sure they are not gunna waste the resulting meat, as to lizardfolk meat is meat when a creature is dead, but again normally a lizardfolk will not go out of their way to hunt and eat humans

jagged apex
#

will admit it does mention some tribes do that, but again, to my knowledge those tribes are usually more often than not that way do to them being ruled by a lizard king/queen who perpetuates and makes a mandatory thing

#

i believe AJ pickett covers the specifics of it in his lore video on the lizardfolk

sharp owl
#

Ghosts of Saltmarsh: Using This Book

Along with each adventure appear notes for setting the adventure in the Saltmarsh region or adapting it to a variety of D&D settings. Use that information to place it in your campaign or on the shores of your choice.

iron saffron
#

I stand corrected. I thought they changed it to setting agnostic for the 5E book.

eager bay
#

It says they specifically have a taste and hunger for humanoid flesh especially

eager bay
#

Oops, forgot to turn off the mentions again. Apologies.

#

Why is it auto on in servers and auto off in DMs?

iron saffron
#

That's because lizardfolk so corpses of humanoids as just flesh. "Why let it go to waste?"

eager bay
#

There is literally an entire paragraph in the monster manual detailing that

#

And they are still listed as neutral

#

Probably because killing and eating a person doesn't nessicarily make you evil by D&D standards

#

Which tbf, is true in real life to a degree

#

But D&D never deals in anything but extremes pretty much

jagged apex
#

which is just factually not the case in the lore of published materials

eager bay
jagged apex
#

they do not go out of their way to hunt and kill humans or other humanoids

eager bay
#

It is used to describe how often they kill and eat humanoids

#

Turns out it typically means whenever convenient, despite it possibly being immoral

#

And it, like the paragraph about them eating people, is found in the monster manual

jagged apex
#

that is not the case for lizardfolk in published dnd materials at least not in recent years

eager bay
#

Like I just said

#

Unless of course such things can no longer be considered "recent" enough to be canon lore?

iron saffron
#

Hunting for food isn't necessarily an evil act.

Lizardfolk aren't human their mindset is different from ours. They see everyone else as possible food.

Lizardfolk have no notion of traditional morality, and they find the concepts of good and evil utterly alien. Truly neutral creatures, they kill when it is expedient and do whatever it takes to survive.

jagged apex
#

"Lizardfolk are omnivorous, but they have a taste for humanoid flesh. Prisoners are often taken back to their camps to become the centerpieces of great feasts and rites involving dancing, storytelling, and ritual combat. Victims are either cooked and eaten by the tribe, or are sacrificed to Semuanya, the lizardfolk god."

#

the word you mentioned does not even appear in that sentence and they are not often the kind to take prisoners

#

they are hunter gather's, if they are taking prisoners it is do to them being victims of regular attacks from said humanoids

eager bay
jagged apex
#

seems clear that shad is mixing and matching different parts to suit his own interpretation

#

"When unwelcome visitors are detected, a tribe sends a hunting band to harass or drive the trespassers off, or tricks them into blundering into the lairs of crocodiles and other dangerous creatures."

eager bay
#

Because I will

#

As I am sick and tired of you ignoring the entire text, and instead focusing on what lets you potray them in the way YOU want

#

This is a place of LORE

#

So either put the whole damn text and stop being a coward, or stop putting down an opinion that isn't sponsored by core 5e books

jagged apex
#

i am not ignoring the entire text, i am literally trying to find what you are going on about cuz currently it seems you are going off some jumbled up version of what is actually written

eager bay
jagged apex
#

yes, that is literally where i am grabbing these quotes from

#

i am not being a coward by quoting and going off the actual published lore and actually proving the evidence i am going off of rather than some self made quote that seems largely made from a jumbbling up of what is actually written

eager bay
#

lord do I even want to know what the heck is happening here?

jagged apex
#

not ever part of a thing talks about the exact same topic, that is why they have these titles in bold at the beginning of those paragraphs

eager bay
#

looks like an argument, if Im correct

jagged apex
#

shady is saying lizardfolk eat humans when ever it is convenient, me and old man yelling at clouds try to provide what is actually published, and he things were are just nit picking and misconstruing stuff just cuz it does not line up with his own logic

#

with us even proving quotes from the source he is claiming to be getting his statement from

eager bay
#

ah I see

#

they are literally quoting the book

jagged apex
#

also, if he were correct, he should have been able to provide the section he is quoting and getting this idea from, rather than just using soly his own words and claims

#

like rather than just doing that, he is just belittling us for trying to provide what is actually written in the published lore

magic jackal
#

Y'all not to mini mod but name calling and hostile arguing is not exactly what this channel is for I don't think.

jagged apex
#

perhaps it would be best if we moved on to another topic

eager bay
jagged apex
#

that has nothing to do with humans specifically

#

normally they stick to wild game when hunting sources of meat

eager bay
#

Sorry, my discord broke

jagged apex
#

granted, there are cases where a tribe may deviate for one reason or another, but the objective fact is, the idea in universe of them just casually eating people as any sort of standard diet for the species as a whole is inaccurate is is an in universe stereotype, it is by no means a common occurance on most worlds such as oerth and toril

eager bay
jagged apex
#

no, it is not, as i quoted earlier, they first attempt to chase them off

eager bay
#

Right under where my first quote was

jagged apex
eager bay
jagged apex
#

i did

eager bay
#

About half of it is dedicated to eating people

jagged apex
#

facepalm

eager bay
#

Whether that be for rituals or ordinary hunting

#

They literally see no difference between humanoids beasts and monsters

#

You don't drive away a pack of wolves. You kill and eat the wolves

#

That's what a predator does

jagged apex
#

i'm done trying to explain this to him, if others wanna try, so be it, i am stepping away from the situtation

eager bay
#

I'm not claiming they're evil

ionic rivet
#

Real world does not apply here - this is for D&D lore.

serene crater
#

I just realized something and I have to ask. I just watched the dnd movie again and with the group using the tablet of reawakening, and it made me think. How do gods feel about resurrection? Particularly FR

iron saffron
#

Taps this channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

jagged apex
#

at least that is my understanding

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

last i checked, they will

serene crater
#

The only reason I mention that is I know kelemvor despises necromancy, but im not sure if it noted how he handles ressurection

#

Myrkul i assume wouldn't really care since the soul most likely would return at a later date

iron saffron
#

Resurrection isn't undeath and it's voluntary.

jagged apex
#

all they retain unless their god or some other powerful being goes out of the way to reunite them, they will lose their memories of their mortal life, retaining only vague emotional recollections, the memories themselves are separated from the soul when the soul is passing on to the afterlife, at least historically, and resurrection requires the soul to be willing anyways, so as long as they are not too far along their new life in the afterlife, ie have not been elevated from a normal petitioner, they can still be resurrected with the right spell if willing, otherwise they are effectively no longer that being that you are trying to revive, they are fundimentally a new being entirely, at least that is my understanding

serene crater
#

Huh

jagged apex
#

but yeah, i am seeing nothing that implies that kelemvor is bothered in anyway by normal resurrection spells

#

undeath or otherwise extending your life beyond your natural one especially if to the point of being practically immortal, that is a no no in his faith

#

as long as they are not being made undead and are still within the cycle of existence and will one day die of old age or otherwise natural causes, he has no issue

indigo warren
#

Where is the best place to get started learning the Lore of D&D?

iron saffron
#

There is no "one" lore for D&D.

#

Taps on channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc.

#

AJ Pickett, Jophdan, and Mr. Rhexx are probably the most prominent D&D Youtubers that cover D&D lore, usually about monsters rather than swathes of D&D lore history.

indigo warren
#

Yea I guess just getting into the lore and stuff! Have been playing through /readying the adventures for LMoP, DoIP and Dragons of stormwreck isle to run for some friends. Just looking into more of the lore around the world I guess. Will check them out

iron saffron
#

Those adventure takes place in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting, specifically the Sword Coast region of the continent of Faerun.

jagged apex
robust swallow
#

You could also check out the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide.

lost copper
#

In Faerun, what's a kingdom with a super powerful navy or a huge vendetta against pirates?

modest badger
#

One thing to consider is that pirates are just enemy raiders. Bucaneers/ Privateers are your own pirates that you legalise harrassing others.

So really any seaside country with poor relations with another seaside country will have issue with their pirates.

#

Luskan is definitely one of the more 'piratey' cities along the coast, and has enemies, but then those port cities and countries will likely still have their own pirates.
For example Ruathym and Luskan were often enemies (although had an 'agreement). Both had pirates, although Luskan probably had more pirates.

#

The Lord's Alliance likely has a very powerful navy and has to deal harshly with non-alliance nations like Luskan.

#

For example one quote about the Lord's Alliance:

For a century and a half, and more, **the Lords' Alliance has stood as the most important and influential group in the North. Its power has kept towns safe from the predations of larger powers, has kept the ambitions of Luskan in check, **and has taught the rulers of many cities that it is better to cooperate, even for a time, then to merely shut one's doors and allow the storms to rage outside.

lost copper
#

thanks for the info!

iron saffron
jagged apex
echo parcel
#

how much do we know about Verenestra in terms of the lore about the feywild?

loud totem
#

Is there a reason Eilistraee doesn't have the Twilight Domain?

iron saffron
#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

#

She had the Moon domain in 3E

unkempt merlin
iron saffron
#

The Twilight domain came out in Tasha's.

unkempt merlin
#

Yep

jagged apex
# loud totem Is there a reason Eilistraee doesn't have the Twilight Domain?

not everything on the wiki is always up to date, especially with the number of subjects on wikis and the like and could be explained in the flavor text/description of the domain as a class itself "The twilit transition from light into darkness often brings calm and even joy, as the day’s labors end and the hours of rest begin. The darkness can also bring terrors, but the gods of twilight guard against the horrors of the night.

Clerics who serve these deities bring comfort to those who seek rest and protect them by venturing into the encroaching darkness to ensure that the dark is a comfort, not a terror."

#

being a god of the moon does not automatically mean you get twilight just cuz selune has it

#

though i think it could be reasonable or at the very least debatable for her to have such a domain or have clerics of that domain based just on the roles of such beings mentioned inthe class itself

jagged apex
#

seems she'd at least be a known figure in the feywild given her parentage and being part of the seelie court, but not much really as she has not been used in published materials it seems since 2e

lost copper
#

I'm curious, what kingdoms in Faerun are the most likely to conduct twisted experiments?

haughty olive
#

Drow, Thayan, Chultan are first 3 that come to mind

jagged apex
#

technically not in faerun, thay definitely would

haughty olive
#

Ah yeah fair

#

Mind flayers love to experiment

jagged apex
#

also, disagree on those other 2 as one of them is not even a kingdom

haughty olive
#

I know I know

jagged apex
#

but if if not limiting yourself to a kingdom, the mindflayers are easily top of the list

haughty olive
#

Just using a loose def of kingdom

jagged apex
#

honestly society would be the better term i feel

#

cuz some do not even have kingdoms, illithid, aka mindlfayers have 2 known sort of society structures, colonies and empires

#

at least to my knowledge, never heard of them making kingdoms

glacial plover
#

Starting an evil campaign.

Who are the most common gods that a necromancer might serve?

iron saffron
#

Which setting?

glacial plover
#

Forgotten Realms

jagged apex
#

vecna is an obvious one to me

#

or could go with Myrkul, who is one of the dead 3

glacial plover
#

Are those two pretty common to have followers?

#

Sorry, specifically in the Sword Coast area, should have mentioned that

jagged apex
#

don't really change the answer

#

vecna, yes, and definitely is the case with myrkul

#

though most followers of vecna are not gunna opperate openly as he is also the god of dark secrets

#

so if you don't have the restraint for subtlety or intrigue, i'd suggest myrkul over vecna

glacial plover
#

Very awesome, thank you!

jagged apex
#

if using one of the other listed deities, carefully look at their worshipers, personalities, and dogmas, as not all death domain deities would fit such a role without deviating from their actual character

crystal radish
#

Could it be theoretically possible for a mimic to eventually grow into the size of a planet? Or better question, is there a set/theoretical limit to the growth of a mimic?

jagged apex
#

yes, they rarely grow beyond a certain size

jagged apex
#

like normally to my knowledge a mimic would not be able to reach anywhere near that sort of size with out a lot of unnatural aid, be it magic or something else

#

from what i can find normally they are usually no longer than 10 feet, the average one in 5e being to my knowledge 6 ft, though technically they can seemingly have any dimension it could be they are usually no longer than 10 feet is cuz the larger they get the more food they need to consume regularly

jagged apex
#

so any mimic that did somehow manage get to anywhere near that size would be eaten by a genius loci probably, if they somehow managed to survive that long

storm dagger
glacial plover
storm dagger
untold blaze
#

Do common people, local people , demo humans, elves of Faerun know what exactly happened during the spellplague I mean do they know about what cyric did to mystra ?

sharp owl
#

What do you mean by "demo humans"?

#

But no, the average person would not know the specifics about the spellplague, just that it was pretty terrible time all round

sharp owl
#

@clear tundra Devils don't "follow" archdevils

#

They serve under them

clear tundra
#

Ok, can you guy tell me which devils follow Zariel?

clear tundra
sharp owl
#

The Nine Hells are incredibly hierarchical and structured

clear tundra
#

Ok then...which served under her?

sharp owl
#

Literally hundreds of thousands

clear tundra
#

...

#

Ok, then this is more freedom then I thought

#

:)

sharp owl
#

She rules over Avernus, which is the first layer of the Nine Hells and the front line of the Blood Wars

#

She commands the legions of Hell in their fight against demonic incursions

clear tundra
#

Is there any group of devil she favour the most? Or she view every devil the same?

sharp owl
#

So she'll have dozens of high ranking devils under her direct command
Those devils will each have dozens of devils under their command
And so on and so forth down to the lowly lemurs dragging themselves from the River Styx

#

She doesn't care, best devil for the job

clear tundra
#

alright

#

@sharp owl So currently she leading an army fighting demon in Avernus which is also the place between the Nine Hells and the Abyss?

#

I think I'm wrong in the last part

sharp owl
#

No, Avernus is the first of the nine levels of the Nine Hells of Baator (to give it its full name)
The River Styx is a metaphysical river that winds through the lower planes (which includes the Abyss and the Nine Hells) and is the only direct link between the Abyss and the Nine Hells
The river enters the Nine Hells in Avernus, what with it being the first level. This means that the demons that want to invade the Nine Hells do so by landing in Avernus.

#

As such, Avernus is constantly mustering infernal troops to repell the demons, and Zariel commands those troops

clear tundra
#

And which part of the abyss does these demon come from?

sharp owl
#

Any, the Abyss is pure chaos

crude blaze
#

Yeah, there’s no ordered structure to the Abyss. Pretty much any wave of demons could come across the River Styx at any given moment, whether following a demon lord or not.

clear tundra
#

@sharp owl Since I got to know Avernus and the Nine Hells (a little bit) Can I ask about the Upper Plain?

sharp owl
#

I don't know much about the Upper Planes

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

though most that serve zariel currently likely only do so as she rules avernus, and would follow anyone who manages to replace her in that role, cuz historically that potion has changed at least a few times, mostly between zariel and bel

steady verge
#

What D&D races would live in a primarily sea faring civilization that lives underwater aside from little outposts on the surface?

#

Triton, Water Genasi, and Sea Elves are the 3 I have so far

iron saffron
#

Which setting?

steady verge
#

Homebrew, just general across the multiverse

iron saffron
calm crest
#

D&D has a wide variety of aquatic equivalent monsters: scrag (marine trolls), merrow (marine ogres), kapoacinth (marine gargoyles), koalinth (marine hobgoblins), and vodyanoi (marine umber hulks), to name a few.

iron saffron
#

Sure but this channel is to deal with specific official D&D lore and not to help with world building.

jagged apex
#

did not know about kapoacinth until now

iron saffron
#

It's a variant mentioned in the AD&D MM.

calm crest
#

Although I don’t think the “swim instead of fly” element was added on until after 1e. They could do both, originally.

unique bough
#

i want to do a red wizards of thay one shot (where the players are red wizards)

#

do they have any specfic ranks/titles

#

and what rank would a level 14 have

#

and what would be a good prize to give the players to do (maybe their own fortress, or they become the new leaders of the forgein trade guild

jagged apex
jagged apex
jolly bolt
jagged apex
unique bough
#

true. also i had a look too, there are Khazark and Autharch too

untold blaze
sharp owl
#

demi-human isn't a term used in D&D

obsidian gate
sharp owl
#

Okay, well it's not used in current editions and it's not a great term to use full stop

modest badger
#

Yeah Humans, Demi-human (elves, dwarves, halflings- 'good' non humans) and humanoids (gnolls, orcs, goblins - 'evil' non-humans) are pretty dated and unhelpful terms in modern D&D, and even old AD&D really.

Mostly they're a hang over from Gygax's writing being explicitly humanocentric:

ADVANCED D&D is unquestionably "humanocentric", with demi-humans, semi-humans, and humanoids in various orbits around the sun of humanity.

  • 1e DMG, p. 21

(Honestly Gygax didn't even really like the idea of you playing anything other than human and intentionally designed the other races to not be the best idea to play (such as level caps). )

Demi- as a prefix should mean 'half-' which.. obviously makes no sense, as elves, dwarves and such are not half human. Demi to mean 'lesser' also feels very, very off, but is likely the intention of Gygax from the above sentiment, especially as he also throws in 'semi-human' without explanation. Meanwhile 'humanoids' was used interchangeably as how we use it now (to mean someone of a human like shape), such as in the monster manual, and used to more specifically mean evil or at least nonplayable humanoids.

Doppleganger from the 1e MM:

These bipedal creatures are of mutable form so that they are able to shape themselves into the likeness of any humanoid creature

And what even counted for either? Was a centaur a demi-human or humanoid? What was the difference?

Demihuman—a player character who is not human: a dwarf, elf, gnome, half-elf, or halfling.
2e PHB, p.13
Wait, so now is it only PC characters who are demi-humans? Or at least races that are playable? This term has no strong definition, even in AD&D.

When WotC took over and introduced creature types for 3.0, making things a bit more codified, humanoid became the creature type for all of the above and 'demi-human' was dropped for the above reasons. It made little sense and wasn't a useful distinction.

grim siren
#

Funnily enough market demand is what pushed the Idea of Demi-humans in the first place. Which around that time was synonymous with anything that looked partially human. But the term was confusing and it almost seems on purpose

Demi-Humans first appeared in Chainmail, mainly because they were including fantasy style races to capitalize on the rabid tolkien fandom. (Fellowship of the Ring was less than 20 years old at this point.)

Initially, for Dungeons and Dragons Gygax did not want any non human playable species. The fantasy he was inspired by was Conan, Carter, Dying Earth, and Eternal Champions. Tolkienesque fantasy was the lowest of the lowest priority when making D&D because well, the creators just didn't like it.

So why did all of these "Demi-Humans" make it into the game that neither creator desired.

Player feedback. According to Dragon Magazine #95 Gygax penned an article where he discussed that playable Elves, Dwarves, and Halflings were added because people would not stop writing him asking him to do it.

After long contemplation of the plight of dead-ended demi-human characters, and considerable badgering from players with same, it seemed a good plan to work up some new maximum levels for those demihumans with super-normal statistics and in a couple of cases just reward those with high stats across the board. Demi-humans were limited in the first place (in the original rules) because I conceived of a basically human-dominated world.

-Gygax March 1985

As far as using it as a negative term because "Half-Human" or "Lesser-Human" feels weird. (Which while I could see it, lesser human has never been the assumed definition at my tables YMMV though) One of the core races today is still called. "Halfling".

In some of the settings Demi-human was generally a non-diegetic word. I can't recall any setting that used that as an inworld way to describe peoples.

To use the Forgotten Realms as an example. Most of the time the species of Toril do not refer to the in game way.

Elves called themselves Tel-quessir.
Halflings called themselves Hin.
Gnomes were often called The Forgotten Folk. Dwarves were often called Stout or Deep Folk.

Demi-Humans last appearance prominently IIRC was in 2Es Demihuman Deities.

summer tulip
#

So I've been doing some diving into the wikis for the Forgotten Realms setting and haven't had any luck finding an answer to something. Has it ever been stated how the elemental and outer planes were created? From my understanding Ao and the other deities used these powers to create the prime material (I guess with the energy/primal elemental energies of the elemental planes?)

#

Or did both kind of just form when the 'multiverse' was created.

iron saffron
#

Ao didn't create the Material Plane. Realmspace (where the planet Toril is) is part of the Material Plane. It's like our Earth is part of the universe.

You have to go back further before the creation of Realmspace to creation of the multiverse, pre-Dawn War.

hearty lion
#

lore-wise, what is the most dangerous creature in the Shadowfell and the Feywild?

iron saffron
#

The gods/archfey who reside there.

hearty lion
#

I read that Feywild was divided into several domains which were each ruled by an Archfey

#

so isn't there something ruling over all the Archfeys?

obsidian gate
#

not really, no. Some like Titania are considered especially powerful but I dont think there is an overarching ruler

iron saffron
pine reef
#

are there any Gods in the Abyss?

#

I know there are deities in the Hells and most planes, but I can't find a reference to a God that resides there.

covert island
#

The Equivalent would be the Demon Princess afaik

pine reef
#

but their power level/influence is far beneath that even the least of deities, no? in supplements for 5th edition most are barely above 24 CR.

#

I mean actual divinities, demi-god at least and above.

iron saffron
#

There are inifinite number of layers to the Abyss so CE gods control a layer or more (Lolth has two layers).

pine reef
#

ooooh yeah Lolth, thank you

iron saffron
#

The statblock of the gods in 5E are avatar/aspects and not the gods' true forms.

#

Tiamat's aspect is CR 30.

pine reef
#

Something with CR 26 is certainly strong, but hardly divine level. It makes no reference of any avatar for Demon Princes, it list themselves.

iron saffron
#

Demogorgon isn't a god though.

#

Demon lords don't have avatars because they are not divine (although in 3.5E they had very weak aspects about half of their CR). Demogorgon and Orcus have strived to become gods but failed so far.

pine reef
#

Aha, OK, I was talking primarily of Demon Princes. So Demon Princes/Lords are not Gods, correct?

iron saffron
#

They are not gods.

pine reef
#

If they're not, what is stopping a deity like Lorth from just pwning everyone in the Abyss?

iron saffron
#

Because she sees the bigger picture of the multiverse, the Abyss is just one small corner of it

#

As a deity she gets her divine power from her worshippers and the more faithful she has the more powerful her divine rank becomes.

#

The demon lords are just annoying neighbours.

pine reef
#

Are demons capable of worship?

#

Like, could she just smite a demon lord and try to take their layer and have them worship her?

#

Or faithful are only mortals?

iron saffron
#

That's what demon lords like Demogorgon and Orcus try with their cults. They don't have enough followers to become divine.

#

Lolth already has two layers. Why waste resources and time on the petty infighting of the demon lords.

olive tulip
#

Where to learn about the campaign settings? I have found only a few campaign setting books. For example is there any campaign setting book for forgotten realms except sword coast?

iron saffron
#

There's FR wiki.
You can always go back to the older editions' FR campaign setting books.

olive tulip
iron saffron
#

5E hasn't updated much with the FR lore. What's "okay" is up to your DM.

olive tulip
#

Thanks

sand sentinel
#

Am new so any basic lore

ionic rivet
sand sentinel
#

Yeah but just like basic stuff

#

Who’s the big bad

modest badger
#

Honestly depends a lot on the setting you use for your game. Many modules use the Forgotten Realm setting.
Other than that, you don't really need much more than what's presented in your prewritten adventure if your using that.

#

There is no one big bad.

sand sentinel
#

Oh I thought there was a big story in all the box sets that was really subtle

modest badger
#

D&D has multiple settings and adventures. Think like asking 'What's the lore' when the options are Lord of the Rings, Narnia, Witcher, so on on.

sand sentinel
#

Oh ok never mind then

modest badger
#

If running an adventure, it'll likely have the lore you need, but you can look up anything to see if it has more lore.
If making your own adventure in your own setting, you get to decide the lore yourself, but might like to use the 'set' lore of creatures in the monster manual and so on.

sand sentinel
#

Super excited I just got the starter set

modest badger
#

#1029833015423143957 for the [Lost Mine of Phalndelver](#1029835597168267384 message) or [Dragons of Stormwreck Isle](#1029841458661957682 message) might also be able to help out there ( The new starter set uses Stormwreck isle, older starter set used Lost Mines) if you're planning on running as a DM. Other can help out with explaining details of the module, including possible relevant lore.

tribal sparrow
sand sentinel
tribal sparrow
#

Nice themberchonk

sand sentinel
#

Should I prepare some props or maps

tribal sparrow
#

You don’t have to

iron saffron
pine reef
#

Where can I find the lore on the types of Gods and their abilities in 5e? Which book?

iron saffron
#

The PHB and DMG has sample list of gods.

If you want a specfic setting of gods then you should say which setting.

pine reef
#

I'm more interested in the limitations and categorizations of the Gods rather than individual Gods. Like the wiki lists a lot of info, some outdated, some current, and it is confusing.

#

What are the ranks?

iron saffron
#

Divine ranks.

pine reef
#

Quasi-Deity, Intermediary, Greater and Overgod?

grim siren
#

Which setting

pine reef
#

faerun.

#

Toril.

#

Realmspace.

iron saffron
#

Demi-god, Lesser, Intermediate, Greater are the divine ranks

grim siren
#

Quasi and Demi are interchangeable

pine reef
iron saffron
#

3.5E Deities and Demigods has more information on divine ranks.

pine reef
#

Nothing on 5e?

iron saffron
#

Nope.

grim siren
#

SCAG actually touches on them. It's the really only good part of the book

iron saffron
#

5E has been very sparse on deities.

pine reef
#

Because I'm unclear, lore-wise, about the Gods. How much they get involved, how much -can- they get involved, what are their powers, do they feud with one another, how power passes, how are Gods killed, etc.

#

What are their limitations, who they can directly interfere with and who they can't.

iron saffron
#

Again I recommend you read the older editions Deities and Demigods books.

pine reef
#

Alrighty, will look for one.

iron saffron
#

Or read the link I posted above.

#

There is also the 3.5E book Faiths and Pantheons that dealt specificially with the Faerun gods.

storm dagger
#

The 5e DMG.

pine reef
#

Where would Bane as quasi-deity in 5e exist? I don't imagine he's got Black Bastion still.

jagged apex
pine reef
#

Can he really keep that plane as a quasi-deity?

jagged apex
#

far as it seems to say here at least, he would dwell in banehold

#

if anything it might exist in some unknown part of toril or in a pocket dimension, but he is still a deity, just drastically reduced in power

#

but historically at even demigods could have divine realms, so nothing that suggests, at least to my knowledge that he would not have access to them still

#

though we don't really see him doing much or get such things addressed in recent years regarding him outside of things like games

pine reef
#

His portfolio is pretty big for a quasi-deity tho, no?

jagged apex
#

and i am sure if anything he probably has not lost any of it cuz the 2 other notable deities, maglubiyet and grummsh are busy waring with each other

jagged apex
storm dagger
#

I imagine he’s on Toril somewhere as he didn’t go to the Outer Planes when he gave up his power

pine reef
storm dagger
#

Staying on Toril instead of being restricted to the Outer Planes of why he gave up power in the first place

pine reef
#

Quasi-deities have a divine origin, but they don't hear or
answer prayers, grant spells to clerics, or control aspects of
mortal life. They are still immensely powerful beings, and in
theory they could ascend to godhood if they amassed enough
worshipers.

jagged apex
#

plus i would not call 3 things a lot, given mrykul has a whopping 6 things in his portfolio

jagged apex
storm dagger
#

Yes he should be able to freely travel you are correct

jagged apex
storm dagger
jagged apex
#

also it notes only some could not grant spells, likely the dead 3 are within this exception as they merely loss a massive amount of divine power rather than were starting from that state like other quasi-deities

storm dagger
#

Like Bane is one of the most worshipped gods on Toril

iron saffron
#

Ao is the one who decides who because a deity and if they get promoted to higher divine ranks (or demoted).

storm dagger
#

He can but he’s normally hands off

jagged apex
#

they long since had been true gods, but were more recently demoted so to speak for not heading his warning to stop being directly evolved with mortal affairs on toril

iron saffron
#

Bane lost most of his worshippers when he was killed by Torm. His powers and followers went to Cyric.

iron saffron
storm dagger
jagged apex
#

plus to be fair, unlike bhaal, bane basically kept a tighter hold on his stuff than the others so he did not loose as much as easily from other deities to my knowledge

storm dagger
#

Anyway Bane is one of the most popular gods he’s the official religion of most of the Moonsea region

jagged apex
#

plus to my knowledge it is possible cuz of their situation, the dead 3 if they garner enough divine power via worship and the like they could over time regain some of that power that was taken away, as we don't know how long this demotion lasts or if it is permanent, simply that after the second sundering the dead 3 had all been reduced to the status of quasi-deities as part of them refusing to stop directly influencing events on toril

#

and given the power of other gods and the sort of for lack of a better term, divine laws regarding how a god can and can not expand worship on toril, which is why some gods are not worshipped in some parts and why no god is just doing some sort of crusade where they are converting people by force under the threat of death

grim siren
#

Bane hedged his bets on a child like Bhaal. But unlike Bhaal he used a singular sire, Iyachtu Xvim. After bane was killed he returned by killing his son. Who was little more than a cocoon for his father.

jagged apex
#

yeah, bhaal cast a wide net

rapid shale
#

anyone know the elvish word for Scale?

wet crow
#

does anybody know abt any nations/kingdoms in sword coast north?

iron saffron
#

The Sword Coast (North) doesn't have kingdoms.

#

The Sword Coast is mostly city states (Neverwinter, Silverymoon, Waterdeep, and Baldur's Gate)

wet crow
#

ohhh okay that makes more sense lol

#

what about nations in the sword coast as a whole?

iron saffron
#

Again, city states listed above.

#

Those cities have alliance through the Lords' Alliance.

wet crow
#

okay gotcha thanks brah 🤙

tardy wasp
#

Can the Grayhawk or Forgotten Realms pantheons appear in other worlds/settings, like the Seldarine or Ordning? Or are they explicitly bound to their regions of the multiverse?

storm dagger
#

They can if they gather a following and in FR if they don’t step on the toes of another gods portfolio too much

#

Many of those gods are active in many worlds.

serene crater
#

I mean there are gods like Vecna and Tharizdun who've crossed into FR from Greyhawke iirc

pine reef
#

Characters who reach 20th level have attained
the pinnacle of mortal achievement. Their deeds are
recorded in the annals of history and recounted by
bards for centuries. Their ultimate destinies come to
pass. A cleric might be taken up into the heavens to
serve as a god's right hand. A warlock could become
a patron to other warlocks

This is from D&D Dungeon Master Guide.

Would a 20th level warlock lose power by being a patron for another? How high can this new warlock be in terms of levels?

#

I'm interested in lore-wise aspect not the gameplay, hence this channel. Is there a loss of power for the one being the patron to another, or no?

unkempt merlin
#

No

jagged apex
#

is just certain gods are not multispherical as they are not worshiped in multiple settings, but some that are examples of ones worshiped in multiple settings are bahamut, tiamat, tyr, odin, ect...

storm dagger
serene crater
#

Im surprised about Vecna, though he has been active with the obelisk scenario

storm dagger
#

The Obelisks were not made by him or anything. They are around the multiverse and he used one.

serene crater
#

No but he pulled a whole stunt to kill their creators

storm dagger
#

Correct, but they were multiversal creatures not FR exclusives. (Also I don't think he killed them, but erased memory of them)

thorny hound
#

What are some beasts that would make sense a Firbolgs would have ? As in Beastmaster Ranger.

#

They usually don't go too far away from their Strongholds iirc

iron saffron
thorny hound
#

Maybe 🤔

jagged apex
#

tharzidun more so cuz he was literally a threat to the entire dnd multiverse

kind dagger
#

Do dragonborn have a sort of "dragon hoarding" type history?

jagged apex
#

canonically, not to my knowledge

kind dagger
#

Hmm alright. Maybe I can make that into his background then

#

Like maybe his family specifically likes to hoard

jagged apex
#

their connection kind is the weakest so is largely just physical stuff that is draconic and why their personality norms are not tied to certain breeds like true dragons or half dragons

kind dagger
#

Alright

jagged apex
#

in fizban's we get some general lore for each of the 3 major subtypes of dragonborn that are based off the 3 major types of true dragons, chromatics seem to embrace more so the raw elemental power their draconic connection gives them, the metallic dragonborn embracing the tenacity of the metallic dragons, and the gem dragonborn being more so the ones to adopt at least from what i can tell more mental and personality centric traits, maybe do to the psionic nature of gem dragons, but they give a bit more insight

#

but even in general, anyone can hoard or otherwise be greedy, true dragons just have a sort of need for it as it influences their power and reputation, again which is covered at least a bit in fizban's

#

but some do play up those draconic traits as just more so things for their individual dragonborn, nothing says they don't, but nothing to my knowledge in published materials say it is a habit or otherwise behavioral norm for the way dragonborn or their societies are

kind dagger
#

Alright thanks for the info. I wanna be like a dragonborn from a greedy hoarder family who became a monk after realizing the material wealth isn't fulfilling

wet crow
#

what does the abbreviation in toril’s calendar epoch stand for?

jagged apex
#

far as i can tell it is used the same way the term epoch is used outside of that context

jagged apex
#

cuz i found nothing indicating it was even an abbreviation for anything and is just a term that not everyone is familiar with, i certainly wasn't until just now

grim siren
#

I believe Thomas is referring to DR which appends the Year. A Calendar Epoch is a instant that kicks off an era.

In that case. DR stands of Dalereckoning. Dalereckoning is taken from the Year of Sunrise, 1 DR, when the Standing Stone was raised by the elves of Cormanthyr and the human Dalesfolk. Since this time, humans were permitted by the Elven Court to settle in the more open regions of the forests.

pine reef
#

lore-wise, are there demon casters? like I know there are devil wizards.

unkempt merlin
#

yes

pine reef
unkempt merlin
#

They can cast like any other sort of thing can

#

There are a lot with some kind of innate spellcasting as well

jagged apex
#

so a lot of the time these sort of thing just are not mechanically reflected but do still exist in the lore

iron saffron
#

In past editions more advanced versions of fiends could have PC class levels, including casters.

jagged apex
#

now a days is currently more so a reminder given in the dmg for if they wanna modify or create monsters for their games

static oracle
#

I love using the archmage stat block and just stapleing it to whatever monster I need.

iron saffron
#

Sure but that's gameplay which has little mean in lore. That's more of a #dm-discussion thing.

magic jackal
#

So I understand the needs for sustenance both materially and psionically nutritional, and I understand elder brains are formed of a conglomerate of Illithid minds at the near-ends of their life cycles, but does the elder brain still require some form of sustenance the way other mind flayers do?

jagged apex
#

from what i am aware they do eat some of the tadpoles in their brine pool from time to time, otherwise i presume the brine handles the rest

spark haven
#

Yeah, they soak in a nutrient slurry. I'd imagine there's some lesser caste dedicated exclusively to just tossing rats, possums, deer, etc into the brine pool for...absorption

umbral verge
#

Hello everyone, everything good? I'm playing a campaign like a homebrew race where I'm half unicorn and playing wizard. I have the idea of creating a biome inspired by the game Terraria o "The Hallow is a Hardmode surface biome. It is characterized by pastel-colored fairytale graphics, with colorful cyan-colored grass, multicolored trees, and a large rainbow in the background, as well as similarly whimsical-looking (though dangerous) enemies. The Underground Hallow biome can be found directly beneath a naturally-generated Hallow biome.", with the idea of making a biome that corrupts/consumes another biome, I would like to ask for help More experienced players if there is a mechanic like this in the game, thank you!

modest badger
#

Also, from what you said, you might be interested in the Hallow spell

stable gulch
#

i really need to find a god with an angel equivalent

#

i was using the christian angels at first but it posed some problems so i needed an already established god

umbral verge
modest badger
#

In D&D 'angels' (or Aasimon, or things like Devas, Planetars and so on- or most celestials) tend to work for any good god. So there are plenty of gods to pick from that will have celestials and angelic like beings working for them.

stable gulch
#

Thank yu

umbral verge
#

Is there any magic where I can reverse the alignment of creatures?

stable gulch
#

~
Are all angels aasmiars?
i wish to have an angel whos wings dont fade

modest badger
#

Aasimar are mortals with celesital heritage. Aasimon is an older name for angels in D&D.

stable gulch
#

Ooh i see, thank you i will read more

modest badger
#

There are potential ways to reverse alignment in D&D, but I believe 5e has less of them than other editions. No spells that I know of.