#dnd-lore

1 messages · Page 34 of 1

rapid jetty
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Don't aberrations serve entities outside of Realmspace?

jagged apex
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like they are probably the most mysterious beings in dnd, at least asmodeus has a bunch of origins that are theorize even if nobody knows which is true if any

jagged apex
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some can in theory, but nothing about aberrations means they innately fill such a role

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not all aberrations are from the far realm, something many forget

iron saffron
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5E reduced the number of creature types (no more "Outsider" for creatures native to the Outer Planes) so some creatures are listed as "aberrations" when they were once "outsiders", such as slaadi

rapid jetty
jagged apex
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outsider if anything is more a blanket term than a proper creature type if it were to still be in 5e

rapid jetty
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I forgot Driders are aberrations and not monstrosities

jagged apex
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they are monstrosities

iron saffron
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In 3.5E, a slaad would be "outsider (slaad)" with slaad as the sub-type

jagged apex
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at least in 5e

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slaad likely are considered aberrations do to their biology defying any sort of logic known to them and given they are from neither from the upper or lower planes, they are from one of the ones in the middle, specifically limbo

iron saffron
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The githzerai in 5E Planescape are listed as "aberration (gith)" though (I guess because they're native to Limbo). Other githzerai from older books are "humanoid (gith)" though.

jagged apex
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or at least have become so over time since they migrated there long long long ago

rapid jetty
jagged apex
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sounds like it likely was something in past editions

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yep, apparently in 3e they were aberrations

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so odds are you were just mixing up continuities

iron saffron
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Strange, they should be monstrosities.

rapid jetty
jagged apex
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i'm sure the 3e lore explains the logic behind the typing in that edition, but remember, the monstrosity category did not exist until 5e

rapid jetty
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Aberration probably just referred to most things originating through unnatural means to the Realmspace during that time

iron saffron
jagged apex
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or do to them being a creation of lolth, who was warped by the abyss, and the abyss has close ties with the far realm at least in terms of some similar elements

iron saffron
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Monstrosities tended to mean they were created from supernatural/magical means.

jagged apex
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and again were not a thing until 5e

rapid jetty
iron saffron
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3.5E had monstrous humanoid (doppelganger, hags, harpy, keo-toa, medusa). I think drider would have fit the bill better under that.

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Anyway, drifting away from lore talk...

jagged apex
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yeah but monstrous humanoids and magical beasts are technically different from monstrosities

jagged apex
rapid jetty
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Wait wait wait, are Githyanki technically aberrations in 5e then?

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I get they're humanoid, but they're from outside the realmspace.

unkempt merlin
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Only some of them

white ravine
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More monstrosity, if anything. Psionic mutants

unkempt merlin
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In the most recent book, the monster blocks are Aberrations, but the playable ones (and other blocks from earlier in the edition) are humanoid

jagged apex
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no, they are humanoid, the planescape githzerai are aberrations

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specifically the traveler, uniter, and futurist

iron saffron
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I assume those are native to Limbo.

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
rapid jetty
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I don't mean in terms of game mechanics, I mean lorewise

jagged apex
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again, limbo/limbo's gate town

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though that is an educated guess

rapid jetty
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Is Limbo inside what's considered the Realmspace?

jagged apex
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no, limbo is one of the planes of existance

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the plane of chaotic neutral on the great wheel

rapid jetty
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Okay this is confusing.

jagged apex
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not to me, but if you are new to dnd, i can see how that can be

iron saffron
rapid jetty
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What is Ao's domain?

jagged apex
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realmspace

grim siren
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Realmspace

iron saffron
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Realmspace is the "star system" where Toril is located.

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Earth is located in the solar system, for example.
Toril is located in the Realmspace system.

rapid jetty
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So he has no jurisdiction over the other planes. Even if his gods are the masters of those realms...?

jagged apex
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in 5e these are known as "wildspace systems"

iron saffron
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Realmspace is part of the Material Plane (aka our universe).

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There are the Inner Planes (the elemental planes, positive/negative planes, Feywild, Shadowfell).

jagged apex
iron saffron
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The "afterlife" is what most consider the Outer Planes where the gods, devils, and demons live. Mortals' souls tend to go to the Outer Planes where their gods' realms are located.

jagged apex
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and they are not nessissarily his gods, closest would be selune and shaar if any of them

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and that is if going by the creation myth of the forgotten realms setting

rapid jetty
iron saffron
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What do you mean their own realms?

jagged apex
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more so he can revoke their godhood, despose i don't think is the right term

rapid jetty
grim siren
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Since the Nine Hells are an outer plane it is outside of Ao's power

jagged apex
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i believe they mean a divine realm, like you have to be a specific level of god or higher to have a divine realm that is not on the material plane

iron saffron
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Gods above divine rank 0 (aka demi-gods) can have their own divine realms.

jagged apex
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basically anyone lower than a lesser deity

rapid jetty
jagged apex
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he is their boss in relation to their ability to operate in realmspace

rapid jetty
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Yeah, okay I got it now I think.

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So it's more like the gods are contractors that he employed to handle certain things, and fires them if they aren't doing what they're supposed to do.

jagged apex
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or at least, revokes their access if they are a multisphereical power

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ie they are worshiped in more than one setting

rapid jetty
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Still don't get what kind of balance he's trying to achieve/maintain, but the hierarchy makes more sense.

jagged apex
iron saffron
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There are interloper gods like Tyr who come from other systems.

cedar badger
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Are there any examples of magic/raw magic storing in faerun lore? I just wanna know if an artificer can make a device to store high amount of raw magic, then unleash it to cause small scaled chaotic events

iron saffron
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Artificers are limited by what their class says they can do not what lore has done.

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PC artificers are still bound by their class features.

rapid jetty
cedar badger
iron saffron
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Read the artificer class and what items they can create.

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This is outside the scope of the channel.

rapid jetty
cedar badger
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Aight, thanks

iron saffron
rapid jetty
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So I asked this question in #character-discussion but I think the implications extend past the scope of it... can a Ring of Mind Shielding halt or prevent ceremorphosis?

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Or would it just mean the tadpole becomes a mind flayer anyway but gets none of your character's knowledge from eating your brain?

iron saffron
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Seems like a #dm-discussion rather than a lore one since it involves a gameplay mechanic (magic item).

rapid jetty
iron saffron
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Lore is just history. The magic item is a gameplay mechanic.

jagged apex
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key here is magical intrusion, ceremorphosis is very much physical

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that description by the way comes from the dmg for 3.5e, anything further besides creation, would indeed be mechanics rather than lore

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if anything it would prevent someone from connecting to the nearest elder brain if they were in range of one after ceremorphosis

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but only so long as they continued to wear the ring and were attuned to it, and to my knowledge if you transform into an illithid via ceremorphosis any items attuned to the host would not be attuned to the newborn illithid

magic jackal
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Question if ceromorphosis is only a physical process

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I think it's both a physical and magical one, given the results and the typical processes by which mind flayers operate.

jagged apex
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it is mentally, physical, and spiritual, as you lose your soul as a result

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no indication that the change is do to any sort of magic, the only exception i am aware of is the variant used by the absolute in bg3

magic jackal
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so that's interesting as a mind shielding ring might prevent mental intrusion, and save the soul of the individual, but still (maybe) produce a semi-functional mind flayer.

jagged apex
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like far as i can tell is just what "naturally" happens when the tadpole is inserted into a host and consumes and thus replaces it's brain

jagged apex
magic jackal
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well it should have to be somewhat magical

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based on the fact that it interacts with the psionic energies around an individual

jagged apex
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to my knowledge there is no indication it involves magic or psionics

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far as i am aware the process is purely biological via the tadpole

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plus just cuz it involves psionic energies does not mean the process is psionic or by extention magical especially since psionics as a form of magic is specific to 5e

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and from what i am finding no mention is made of psionic energy

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simply "psychic essence" which is very different

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as psychic essence likely is reffering to the energies of the brain itself, and not everyone with a brain can use psionics necessarily

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the non physical sort of part of the mind

merry roost
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Lore wise, has a Celestial Steel equivalent of an Infernal Engine ever been made?

jagged apex
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not to my knowledge, devils explicitly war against the demons so the celestials don't really have need to make massive war machines, but the 5e planescape books easily provide ways to make equivalents by simply having them influenced by the respective planes

merry roost
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Is there a lore reason a Celestial Steel equivalent of an Infernal Engine has not been made?

jagged apex
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am assuming you mean a hellfire engine

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but no, the logical answer would be there has yet to be any need for such a thing to be made

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just realized, infernal engines are the things used to power infernal war machines, but again no, no such thing to my knowledge has been made and likely would not since infernal engines are powered by soul coins which contain the souls of sentient beings, the use of which destroys them, which is considered a cosmically evil act regardless of context

white ravine
jagged apex
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so if nothing else, is likely for that reason, it is more than just a matter of the materials the engine is made of

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no sane celestial to my knowledge would even entertain the idea of destroying souls for any purpose let alone something as mundane as fuel

jagged apex
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else, yeah a spelljammer might at least be somewhat reasonable

jagged apex
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or positive energy since in the current cosmology the upper planes are rather close to it, at least compared to the rest of the multiverse i imagine they can potentially harness that energy more easily

iron saffron
jagged apex
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but let's be honest, hell and fiends in general got plenty on their plate between the bloodwar and the in fighting

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oh yeah, that reminds me, a balor in demogorgon's service turned a layer of the abyss into a massive ship that more or less is a spelljammer/planar ship

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Straoth, was his name

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or at least according to the wiki demogorgon did the transforming and then put Straoth in charge of it

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the plane of rust has interesting implication that kind of support the evidence that Asmodeus is deliberately not winning the blood war

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"This layer had once been a neglected swamp with intermittent portals to the Nine Hells. When devils discovered this connection, they set up a colony in the poisonous swamp. Upon discovery of this invasion, Orcus and Juiblex combined forces to strengthen the poisonous nature of the plane and imbue it with necrotic energy, causing all iron and structures on the layer to decay and crumble, until all that was left was a tightly packed layer of rust and ruins, inhabited by undead and evil constructs. The portals to the Nine Hells remained since buried and unusable"

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like they had a back door, if they were determined asmodeus with all his wit and guile i bet could have made the most use of it to end to end the blood war if he had actually wanted to before orcus and juiblex wrecked it

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though surprised that the demons did not seem to even attempt to use it themselves, so my guess is maybe the portal was one way?

limpid silo
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sup

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im wondering if someone can help me

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i was looking for a name for a build thing that i had created

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i came across a really cool name but then later abandoned it

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anyway i came back to it but i forgot the damn name

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all i remember is that it was a monk order i think, something to do with shar.. im pretty sure it was shar

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but all i can find online is Dark Moon and it wasn't that

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any lore experts know what im talking about?

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it was sorta similar to Nightseer or Nightcloak but way cooler than that 😄

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maybe it wasn't shar, not sure. definitely some sort of order of monks or ninjas or warrior priests or something like that

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associated with darkness and stuff

iron saffron
limpid silo
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yeah ive been trawling that for ages

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can't find the right word

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so frustrating lol

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maybe it wasn't Shar and thats why im not finding it

jagged apex
jagged apex
limpid silo
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yeah i tried looking at that also, no luck

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nah wasn't those guys

jagged apex
limpid silo
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it was like, a female order i think

jagged apex
iron saffron
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It would help to dwindle down to the god.

limpid silo
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i could have sworn it was Shar 😄

jagged apex
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if it was the sisters of st. jasper of the rocks, the god would be ilmater

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otherwise best i can suggest is looking at the monastic orders i linked above and check each listed one till you find one that rings some bells

limpid silo
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alright thanks anyway!

limpid silo
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I thought of 'Duskblade' but that wasn't it either

harsh vale
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What dragon type would most fit a tinkerer sort of thing?

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Like what type of dragon would most likely be a tinkerer/host a colony of tinkerer kobolds

jagged apex
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could be some sort of metallic dragon, given the existence of Metallic Sentinels in fizban's for the 5e continuity

jagged apex
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though tinkering honestly is more often a gnome thing, rock gnome specifically in the case of the forgotten realms, but i think if any dragon, especially if we presume the existence of metallic sentinels implies it would likely be a metallic dragon, i think any further narrowing of it would depend on the intent behind such contraptions

crude blaze
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I’d say the curious nature of an emerald dragon could be fitting as well

jagged apex
# harsh vale Like what type of dragon would most likely be a tinkerer/host a colony of tinker...

honestly none, at least to my knowledge as again to my knowledge gnomes, specifically rock gnomes in the case of forgotten realms are usually the tinkering sort kobolds usually are more mining and or worshiping/serving dragons, and no dragon to my knowledge is known for any sort of tinkering, but i'd guess a steel dragon especially one who's current life is that of a rock gnome, but i doubt they would have a colony of kobolds

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though i could see an emerald dragon having kobolds helping it lay traps of various kinds in their lair since that is something they are known for doing on their own and kobolds would just allow them to do presumably smaller scale traps or more fine tuned ones

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but that is only if you would consider the creation of such traps as tinkering

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if you were to go with something associated with gond, the god of artificers basically in the forgotten realms, seems a steel or crystal dragon would potentially be valid choices at least based on what is recorded and cited on the wiki https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gond#Followers

fathom rapids
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FR: What is the Elemental Evil?

grim siren
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the cults the princes or the Elder Elemental?

white ravine
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Elemental Evils are essentially dark elemental beings that use their powers to destroy stuff, pretty much.

unkempt merlin
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Elemental Evils are the well. Evil elementals yea

jagged apex
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depending on what you mean by "what is elemental evil" cuz elemental evil was a the name of a specific storyline

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much like how hoard of the dragon queen and rise of tiamat before being revamped into a singular book, made up the tyranny of dragons storyline

fathom rapids
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The context I heard it in seems like it’s a group or cult

jagged apex
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then it would be the evil archomentals

white ravine
jagged apex
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the ones of the 4 basic elements, earth, fire, water, and air, being the most prominent and having cults dedicated to them, each basically wanting to bring about a destructive apocalypses rooted in their respected element essentially

fathom rapids
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Gotcha. That makes sense

jagged apex
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which also are mentioned and used as examples for alternative faiths some giants may take if they reject the ordining, including a few variants specific as examples of such giants in bigby's glory of the giants

grim siren
white ravine
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(air, fire, earth, and water respectively)

fathom rapids
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Yeah, I got that dndLol

jagged apex
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you might have been hearing it used in a context to like what bigby's does when covering interloper gods to giants, as it uses elemental evil as basically a group name for all the various evil elemental cults before breaking down into specific ones and examples of giants who may join such a cult if they reject the ordining

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more often they worship one of these cults rather than worshiping the Elder Elemental Eye directly, who the elemental evil princes and princesses of the individual cults all acknowledge as a sort of father to my knowledge

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far as i know though, regardless of the species worshiping them, even giants, those who worship him directly as the elder elemental eye are in the minority

grim siren
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The Elder Elemental Eye is an interesting creature. Introduced in the realms via the 4th edition Abyssal plague storyline, its a complete retcon of the Eye's identity. Add in a Drow God called the Elder Elemental God and Elder Eye. Who is purportedly completely unrelated to Tharizdun.

jagged apex
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or is in some theories, along side the demon lord jubilex who is considered at times is listed as an aspect/alias of Ghaunadaur, are sort of fragments of the chained god divorced from him that presumably don't remember that sort of true self, is one of those things kind of left unclear in the lore

grim siren
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When originally written in the mid-1980s, the adventures T1-T4 made no reference to Tharizdun at all, and specifically pointed out that the cults worshipped chaos and evil, using the concepts of various elements to solidify their concepts. They did not worship a named being.

In Oerth Journal #12, Gary Gygax specifically mentioned that the Elder Elemental Eye and Tharizdun were separate entities.

Q: Some people have lumped the Elder Elemental God (EEG) and Tharizdun together. My perspective is that they are distinct beings. Would you clarify their relationship, or lack thereof?

A: I meant no relationship between the two. The Elder Elemental God I saw as a dark creative deity, one that spun form out of chaos in his portion of one universe, then lost control of his creation-as is the story with so many deities of this sort in the mythology of various peoples of earth, from Babylonian and Egyptian on.

Tharizdun is a larger and more pervasive force that is multiversal but not omnipresent. That is what he sought, of course, along with omnipotence. Tharizdun failed on both accounts.

However, further manuscripts by Gygax blurred that distinction quite a bit, so perhaps he changed his mind or was uncertain at some point.

I'll try to keep this brief. Tharizdun is connected by means of an adventure module by Monte Cook for third edition. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, Monte Cook either misinterpreted or altered the connection to Tharizdun; so depending on which interpretation you want to go with, Tharizdun has either always been the hidden force behind the cult of the Elder Elemental Eye (in which case the Elder Elemental Eye doesn't exist), or that Tharizdun's cult has been using or manipulating worshippers of the Elder Elemental Eye for their own purposes (which leaves them as separate entities). Tharizdun is a deity from the Greyhawk setting, and Ghaunadaur is the most similar deity in the Forgotten Realms setting. If you subscribe to a many-worlds style of cosmology in your campaign world, Tharizdun and Ghaunadaur might be different aspects of the same being appearing in different realities. If your campaign world only uses one reality, then there is no connection because one of those deities doesn't exist. But with Tharizdun coming to the Realms in 4th edition we simply cannot say for certain.

A manuscript by Gygax listed three Elder Elemental Gods, one as Vilp-akf'cho on Oerth, one as Ghaunadaur on Toril, and a third, unknown and unnamed Elder Elemental God. This manuscript also mentions Vilp-akf'cho as fleeing to Oerth and hiding within Tharizdun's darkness, until the deity Pelor shone light upon Tharizdun, at which point Vilp-akf'cho retreated to Unoerth (Oerth's underdark). However, this manuscript was never published, so it is not official.

As for who the Elemental Eye is PotA... well the adventure has two possibilities both are presented in the module and neither are confirmed.

jagged apex
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and then you got beings like zuggtmoy that basically posed as the elder elemental eye in a plot to boost her how following which was imbeded within the cult

jagged apex
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also, if the theory about Ghaunadaur and Juiblex as parts of him were to be true, i'd imagine them being cut off from tharizdun would be do in part to the nature of his prison, and thus probably why they are not basically doing everything possible to free him

mint wave
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What happened to the Shou in the Spellplague?

iron saffron
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¯_(ツ)_/¯

jagged apex
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likely a big fat question mark since they were part of the kara-tur setting and i don't believe they were covered since before the spellplague

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so until we get actual lore or a statement on it, wild speculation and head canons are more or less fair game

iron saffron
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The non-Faerun FR settings haven't been officially updated since 2E.

jagged apex
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at best we probably get vague off hand mentions just to remind us they are still technically there incase we forgot

iron saffron
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A few characters from Kara-Tur have made appearances in 5E campaign books.

jagged apex
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like closest i think we get to revisiting them is in one of the adventures in candlekeep mysteries that takes us near the shining south as i recall, but that is about it

mint wave
jagged apex
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cuz they have yet to choose to publish sourcebooks or adventures involving them since those days especially do to how they looking back were rooted in stereotypes, plus they are less insentivised since fans have been doing it via 3rd party books for them, otherwise is simply do to choices made by wizards of the coast when deciding what their next project for dnd is gunna be and can really only have so many in the works at one time without massive and obvious suffering in quality among other things

tardy wasp
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What kinds of elves and half-elves would find Sehanine Moonbow an ideal patron deity?

Like, Corellon is favored by elven bards, warriors, artists, mages, and patriots. So what walks of life would likely adopt Sehanine’s faith?

iron saffron
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For various reasons one was that TSR at the time was essentially competing against itself during the 2E era by introducing many campaign settings (Forgotten Realms, Kara-Tur, Maztica, Al-Qadim, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun) — players would just buy stuff for one setting and ignore the rest. They reduced the number of support settings in 3E and onwards.

jagged apex
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plus to be fair in recent years they are from from in a position with the fandom to take the risk of trying to adapt them and risking making it as if not more offensive than the original dated ones from back then that were more or less products of their time

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so odds are for wizards there is just too much of a risk on their end in revisiting those settings, especially when so far no matter how open they try to be about the people working on the books they are putting out having actual passion and interest in doing so, most people write it off as disingenuous but that is more a meta reason, there is not really any sort of lore reason

iron saffron
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DMs Guild has 3rd party stuff that covers things WotC hasn't touched on, such as Ed Greenwood's Thay Land Of The Red Wizards book.

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If you want to know more about lore on Toril I would recommend going over to Ed Greenwood's Discord server.

jagged apex
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yeah, which i believe a while back is part of why they said they were not in any hurry to revisit settings like darksun

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but again, there is not really any lore reason, at least to my knowledge, so if you are curious more so on that matter is likely better continued in a different channel

wise dirge
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Late response but that’s interesting! Are Eberron and the Forgotten Realms some of the most popular settings or am I using the wrong terminology

unkempt merlin
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They are two popular settings yes

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Other popular settings include Greyhawk, Exandria, and Dragonlance

grim siren
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Yeah of the settings in the modern day I would say the top three are Eberron, Exandria, and Forgotten Realms

eager bay
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Is the Far Realm tied to the Underdark?

white ravine
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Not exactly, more the fact that a lot of far realm stuff sits in the underdark because its away from prying eyes

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Not easy for an aberrant horror to exist on the surface

eager bay
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But why does the underdark seem to warp things?

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Is it because of the influence of the far realm or not?

white ravine
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...Define, 'warp things'

iron saffron
eager bay
iron saffron
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Nope.

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Two different places.

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The Underdark has a lot of scary things so aberrations from the Far Realm may see it as a great place to go.

eager bay
iron saffron
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No...

jagged apex
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to my knowledge, supposedly there is a point in the underdark, where most even the natives would not dare go cuz eventually it leads into the abyss itself

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so after a certain point the underdark is essentially uncharted territory

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which if anything might have been what you were thinking of shad

iron saffron
jagged apex
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i recall hearing it in a lore video about it, might have been one of AJ pickett's but i am not 100% certain off the top of my head, hence why mainly stating to my knowledge, and not claiming it to be aboslute fact

eager bay
iron saffron
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There's no mention of the Abyss in the Underdark wiki article.

eager bay
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Basically uncharted because the denizens dare not go

iron saffron
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Oh, the sub-article

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Yeah, there are maps of the Underdark with the different layers (Upperdark, Middledark, and Lowerdark).

eager bay
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Anyways, the underdark is only for a specific world right?

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It's not like every world has an underdark

iron saffron
jagged apex
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technically to my knowledge only supporting evidence is that oerth, the world from the greyhawksetting, has a different name for the their equivilent

iron saffron
teal rock
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What happens if a fiend becomes good?

jagged apex
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they become more morally good, depending on the situation, may become celestial at least half celestial, is not overly special

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besides is such a rare thing to happen to begin with, likely is little info on such cases, like i am at best vaguely aware of like one or 2 examples

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neither of which i can recall by name but i recall being an alu-fiend, but those are technically half fiends

jagged apex
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so seems i was not far off with my speculation of them moving towards transforming into a celestial of some sort or otherwise something new and less fiendish depending on the context

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seems to be covered sort of technically in 5e planescape

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where it starts talking about planar influences and planar alignment, but technically those are more so ment for prolonged exposure to the energies of a plane from what i understand, but is vaguely similar

iron saffron
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In previous editions, fiends can be good but they risk of being hunted down by their peers. The 2E Planescape book, Faces of Evil: The Fiends, covers this.

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https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hamatula#Notable_Hamatula

K'rand Vahlix: A reserved being and among the few rogues of baatezu society. He was especially rare among the rogues for being a 'risen devil' who supposedly fled to Bytopia after killing his cornugon superior. He worked to organize any reformed fiends during missions that required them to cooperate with archons and other native denizens of the upper planes, while also rooting out double agent fiends.

jagged apex
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assuming he is still around in the 5e continuity, i imagine he probably looks more or less like a typical barbed devil, but who to quote planescape 5e "appear carved, constructed, or sculpted by an expert artisan." as it describes creatures influenced by the energies of that plane

iron saffron
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It sucks that WotC removed their archives of old articles.

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Anyway, yes "risen" fiends are a thing but they probably most don't survive their way out of the Lower Planes.

jagged apex
iron saffron
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A template creature. 3.5E were full of those.

jagged apex
#

point was the artwork shown, i imagine K'rand Vahlix if he is still around in 5e, would probably look like a more ornate and goodly version of that

#

at least based on how it describes creatures influenced by the energies of bytopia in 5e planescape

storm dagger
#

New Planescape has a lawful good horned devil

#

He was made the high priest of one of Sigil's temples after the angel who was old high priest left on a divine errand and picked the horned devil as their sucessor.

#

A chunk of the clergy refuse to accept the redeemed fiend as the new high priest.

maiden mortar
#

Intriguing

#

I think that's the first redeemed fiend in 5e

#

What's their name?

jagged apex
#

the temple in question is "Heart’s Fire" located in the lady's ward

jagged apex
#

so less than a chunk

#

at least i consider "some of" out of a whole group to be less than a chunk

#

and just for the fun of it, bonus fun fact, the one running the divine errand is a deva named Ephemera

vivid sphinx
#

For Forgotten Realms, and looking in context as to the timeframe of PAB:TSO, I need to find out something
some lore talks about curses on dragons and elves from ages past, which is generally the timeframe I need to pin down. Generally, how long ago were those things?

jagged apex
vivid sphinx
#

I basically need to get this time frame research to help my dm as I am playing pab tso
So I need only the info of
How long ago was the beginning of that, when that dracorage curse was initiated
Compared to when pab tso is generally set, kinda

sharp owl
#

They just answered that
the 'curse on dragons' ended 1373
5e material is set between 1492 and 1494 according to what info we have

#

So basically a century ago

white ravine
#

He asked when it started, not ended

sharp owl
#

Oooh, misread

#

-25,000 DR

#

😛

jagged apex
#

according to the wiki it started in -25000 DR

#

which was described in the first of the 2 links i shared as part of answering the question

#

DR is the most popular or at least most often use one in the lore especially for forgotten realms so is often the default

vivid sphinx
#

But 26k years is a nice ballpark, now we've got the idea set

sharp owl
muted ruin
#

Hello,

A long time ago (a year) I talked about a orc godess of witchcraft and pacts named Grovna, and I can't remember if I made it up or if it's an obscure godess I read about somewhere.

Now my PC want to go back to her temple and I don't want to invent stuff if she's a real thing.

Does it ring a bell for someone ?

Thanks in advance.

iron saffron
jagged apex
#

no such god exists to my knowledge among the orc pantheon, especially not the forgotten realms

#

how ever is worth noting that Luthic's portolio consists of Caverns, fecundity, fertility, healing, witchery

jagged apex
#

so likely a lesser deity or lower

muted ruin
#

Thanks for the fast answer !

tardy wasp
#

What settings are the racial pantheons from Mordenkainen's, Fizban's, and Bigby's meant to be applicable to?

iron saffron
#

Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms are the two most "generic" of the official D&D campaign settings. They would check off most of the stuff found in those books.

unkempt merlin
#

Mordenkainens is the Forgotten Realms iirc. It specifically calls out when it isn't I believe.

#

Fizbans and Bigbys are both for the generic DnD multiverse and everything within may not be applicable to a specific setting

grim siren
#

Which is really weird considering Mordenkianen is specifically not a FR character

#

Like that could have easily been a Elminster Book That is though when 5e started to get more multiversal

unkempt merlin
magic jackal
#

Neither's Tasha for example.

grim siren
#

Oh yea it is most of the Gods discussed are straight FR.

Is Tasha in any FR Material?

magic jackal
#

Sure, she spent a great deal of time in the FR, although mostly visiting its other Planes.

grim siren
#

Huh the wiki only references her spells in Waterdeep Dragon Heist

iron saffron
#

And yet the named FR archmages don't seem to travel outside of Toril.

magic jackal
#

Clearly that's just where everything's happening /s

iron saffron
#

I know more about the Greyhawk named archmages than the FR ones even though I've never played in the Greyhawk setting before (other than the early D&D modules).

grim siren
#

Yeah from what I can find at least in recent memory she hasn't made a physical appearance on Toril at least in recent time. Doesn't mean she hasn't and I will happily be corrected.

jagged apex
magic jackal
#

Being on Toril does not mean the same as being in the Forgotten Realms.

iron saffron
#

I wonder if any of my players know who Iggwilv/Tasha is because they'll be encounter her later in my campaign.

magic jackal
#

The Forgotten Realms encompasses the cosmology of the planes as well

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

It would be a tad underwhelming that they're not in awe of meeting THE Iggwilv.

magic jackal
iron saffron
#

Greyhawk is barely mentioned in 5E.

jagged apex
#

if you are on toril you are technically in the forgotten realms, but you can be in the forgotten realms but not be on toril

magic jackal
iron saffron
#

Toril is the planet.
Forgotten Realms is the campaign setting that's more or less takes place in/around the continent of Faerun.
You can play in a FR campaign and be outside of Faerun.

magic jackal
#

Tasha spends little time on Toril but she's spent a great deal of time in the hells and the abyss, and the feywild.

unkempt merlin
jagged apex
#

ah

magic jackal
#

please read the conversation before jumping in with an "um actually"

grim siren
#

This is fair I had not considered that. On the Outer Planes.

#

Though most of them existed pre FR as part of Greyhawk

iron saffron
#

Anyway, I found Tasha's 5E statblock a tad underwhelming for one of the most powerful archmages.

grim siren
#

I just wanna know who the current Magister is in FR

jagged apex
magic jackal
#

though I think it's a bit of a copout

grim siren
#

I am sad her "Reveal" was not part of the Adventure but took place before it.

iron saffron
#

Yeah, I had to remake her statblock to be more in line with her 3.5E one.

unkempt merlin
grim siren
#

Yeah Sigil has a page and sigil is by definition a different setting

jagged apex
magic jackal
unkempt merlin
#

Yep

#

Even by proxy she has had influence due to her wizardly rivals

jagged apex
#

i imagine once she is far enough in her research, she easilly could up her cr especially if like any powerful wizard/former wizard she prepares for any situation she is intentionally going into

#

after all, she is at least smart enough to regularly beat mordenkainen at chess, so is not like she is beyond strategy

magic jackal
#

Eh. I mean I see that argument for Liches too, but like, their CR and stats don't reflect that, you have to purposefully inject that to raise their CR.

jagged apex
#

but then again lore and mechanics like CR only can really translate to one another so much

magic jackal
#

The argument being made is she's weaker than she used to be, relative to the power she held compared to PCs and other Mages in prior editions.

#

There is a narrative excuse for it, but I don't like it very much as I mentioned.

jagged apex
#

plus there is always the fact that often things can wind up being much different in practice than they look on paper

#

not to mention i believe the powers of an archfey are either vague or highly varied, so add on top of that her established history and knowledge, hard to say how much of her old self remains or how it may have impacted her memory, spellcasting, and otherwise powers

#

like as i understand it, that statblock is ment to be her as she exists as an archfey at that point in time, without any sort of prep and what little experience she likely has at this state of being, especially since she also spent an undisclosed amount of time, to my knowledge, frozen in time do to the events of the adventure she appears in

#

and the only items she has on her are not exactly super potent in terms of combat unless facing other casters

unkempt merlin
#

Her memory wasn't affected

#

She just cares more about finding out about what her new existence is like than personal power

jagged apex
#

fair

#

but looking at it, i can see how do to factors like rng, much like say the quaggoth, the cr can be rather deceptive and allow her to punch above her CR so to speak

#

like if you used the quaggoth in combination with the lore of their typical pack sizes, they are not really fitting their current cr and are effectively stronger, things on paper often can be drastically more powerful in practice, besides CR is a rough estimate anyways so i feel that 20 is a respectable enough bare minimum all things considered

#

odds are if she appears again far enough down the line, it would warrent a reprint and or new version/variant as she likely will have made progress on her research and learned more about her new existence and how to use her power more effectively

#

cuz despite her history across various planes, until now, to my knowledge she was still merely been human

grim siren
#

Well with WOTCs near abandonment of advancing timelines I would not count on it

jagged apex
#

i am not i am just saying that such a thing would be logical and rather reasonable IF it were to happen

#

plus with how freaky time and the flow of it can get in the feywild, especially in relation to say the prime material plane, who knows how far she could get in her research in what little time may have passed since the events of her adventure, is possible she may have finished her new research for all we know, ain't really gunna be able to know for sure unless she makes further appearences

#

plus, with her specialization for much of her history being demons, and the knowledge she has gained, is not guaranteed that knowledge will translate to combat especially mechanically, is the same reason why some gods despite their status and cosmic power, their avatars are not necessarily gunna be in the 20 pluses

#

sure knowledge equals power, but that power is not always tangible or suited for use in combat

jagged apex
#

do we get any description of how goblins, in the realms or other settings for that matter, like at least those that fall into the typical ways of those in the forgotten realms, and how they treat their dead? like burials, trials, ect... or do they just leave them to rot where they fall?

thorny hound
#

Can someone please tell me what are Firbolgs all about? I'm asking because I don't want to miss anything important about them.

unkempt merlin
#

Nature based, fey adjacent, giant related peoples generally.

thorny hound
#

Read that they are generally elusive, usually won't make contact with anyone but elves, fey and nature correct?

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

They've changed throughout the editions. In 1E to 4E they were essentially big human barbarians but in 5E they became more mellow and nature-based.

jagged apex
#

they are sort of the fey touched hippy good sameritan of giant kin

jagged apex
#

though more was added in bigby's not anything major that would imply deviation from what he talked about from what i am aware of

jagged apex
#

you know the kind of person that lives more or less alone out in the woods away from civilization

#

though rewatching the lore vid i linked, i can see what you might have meant given the giant blood that is said to be on their hands, from the war of hart presumably

#

and they from my understanding always had that nature based element to them, but living in the feywild made those abilities stronger and a bit more expanded, in addition to mellowing out as you put it, oldman, and again that is cuz those we see in 5e are those who have up till recently been living in the feywild and after a generation or two were changed by the energies of that plane

#

at least that is my understanding since we have not gotten anything from the heartlands in 5e or the kingdom founded by hartkiller, Hartsvale, last info we got was in sword coast adventurers guide, which was very little but had no mention of the firbolg

jagged apex
#

at least from what i am aware

#

so honestly if a firbolg these days walks up to you in the forest they live in and are not asking you for aid or offering some sort of trade of goods or services for something they want/need that you have, odds are you are one wrong step away from them beating the crap out of you, like if you accidently offend them or defile the land absentmindedly or otherwise disrespect nature, they are probably gunna at least throw a mean punch or swing of a staff at your head

thorny hound
#

I read that they ask politely to leave first

#

If you are nice that is, if they can feel that you are kinda evil they will chase you out

jagged apex
#

yeah, violence and kicking your but is only if absolutely nessissary

thorny hound
#

@jagged apex what would be a good reason for a Firbolg to join Emerald Enclave?

jagged apex
#

they try every possible and reasonable peaceful option first

jagged apex
# thorny hound <@194411209909338112> what would be a good reason for a Firbolg to join Emerald ...

looking at their tactics and what they seem to be about, and how their Hierarchy seems to be somewhat democratic, though i could be wrong, maybe if the emerald enclave had been protecting the forest they live in in a similar manner to the way they do and they don't do anything to betray or otherwise do wrong by them, might trust them enough approach them and wish to join do to seeing them as kindred spirits of sorts

#

though i am no expert on the factions and am just going off what i can read from skimming the wiki and what i know off the top of my head, but does seem to largely be in line with firbolgs and their societies, as despite being a bit reclusive, they do have societies of their own and settlements of sorts

thorny hound
jagged apex
#

np

jagged apex
#

do we get any description of how goblins, in the realms or other settings for that matter, like at least those that fall into the typical ways of those in the forgotten realms, and how they treat their dead? like burials, trials, ect... or do they just leave them to rot where they fall?
pardon the reasking but did not get an answer earlier and since has been burried a bit with other talk

ionic rivet
#

I’m not personally aware of any official lore on the matter.

jagged apex
#

well if anyone does find or knows of such info, feel free to ping me with it or at least the source where i can find said info

void valley
#

A quick google suggests this is a relatively common question without a definitive answer.

Most coherent answer seems to be for FR Goblin culture that given their god's deleterious effect on their sense of community it's probably more "disposal" than "funeral".

Cannibalism is a frequent suggestion, as is feeding to predators to keep the satiated.

Endocannibalism to keep the strength in the tribe seems like an interesting option.

thorny hound
#

One more question about Firbolgs, how would they treat a Dhampir

#

Do they fall under the same category as half orcs and elves ?

jagged apex
#

they would treat them similar to others, if they are a friend of the land and respectful of nature and not overtly evil or malicious, likely would not have any sort of negativity towards them

#

dhampir are basically half vampire and is more so akin to a curse rather than a genetic thing given the nature of undead life

#

plus such individuals are as likely to embrace their non vampric heritage as they are to embrace their vampiric nature/roots

feral lintel
#

What's on the other side of the world in Toril?

jagged apex
jagged apex
iron saffron
jagged apex
#

yeah you need to be a bit more specific if you want an actual answer

feral lintel
#

Well, the maps of Toril I've seen usually just portray Sword Coast,, so I was wondering if there's any other landmass (or a continuation of the map), cuz I kinda just wanna plaster my hb setting ont he other side of the world

iron saffron
#

The Sword Coast is part of the continent of Faerun. Faerun is one of many continents on Toril.

#

Google "map of Toril" and you'll see the entire landmasses of the planet.

feral lintel
#

Gotcha

#

Oh wow, there's a lot

iron saffron
#

Half of the continents have little to no information on them.

feral lintel
#

Gotcha

#

So anything goes then...

iron saffron
#

As DM you can fill in whatever you want.

feral lintel
#

Yess

iron saffron
#

Your table, your lore.

feral lintel
#

Gotcha. Thanks guys

jagged apex
#

so it would still be worth at least looking at what info there is to see where liberties can or should be taken if using that part of the world, at least to have some level of consistency

#

like it would be weird if say kara-tur were to suddenly become some new york city esc place

#

like even if not sticking to steretotype there are certain themes and ideas worth keeping around

iron saffron
#

I never said or implied that. There's little to no information on continents such as Osse, Anchorome, or Katashaka.

void valley
jagged apex
#

is more or less a mummified undead, as per the definition of mummified aka "preserved as a result of shriveling and drying up"

void valley
iron saffron
#

Mummification isn't limited to the process the Egyptians developed. There are bog mummies and desert mummies. The D&D mummy is more based on the Hollywood version of the Egyptian mummy rather than the historical.

jagged apex
#

plus nobody said i was going with cannibalism of any sort, besides to my knowledge goblins only really do that sort of thing when food runs too low

void valley
#

But mummified Goblin "scarecrows" could fit.

void valley
jagged apex
#

plus there seem to be examples across past editions of a bog mummy and an ice mummy

#

and apparently 3e had the bog mummy and also a clay mummy

iron saffron
#

Like I said earlier, realy life mummies aren't limited to the Egyptian mummification process. Bog and sand desert mummies exist.

maiden egret
#

Hello

#

I'm new here

#

Saw this online and thought it might be fun

iron saffron
jagged apex
verbal barn
#

where did vedalken come from?

#

I mean their origin as a race

void valley
verbal barn
#

is that lore on the forgotten realms?

feral orchid
#

No, they are from a MtG setting Guildmasters' Guide to Ravnica

jagged apex
# verbal barn is that lore on the forgotten realms?

but they could in theory at least some of their kind could have secretly traveled to toril if you are including "ADVENTURES IN THE FORGOTTEN REALMS" and it's storyline at your table, as it is a series of short dnd adventures that connect the two multiverses in some capacity, the second one specifically connecting toril to ravnica, mainly the second one onwards and far as i can tell from reskimming them, they are designed to where you could have one lead into another https://magic.wizards.com/en/story

#

so while they are not native to the forgotten realms, nor anywhere else in the proper dnd multiverse to my knowledge, there is precedence, if i am using that word properly, for them to travel to the forgotten realms

verbal barn
#

I thought all the books had the same universe in the forgotten realms

jagged apex
#

multiverse

#

and it is a bit tricker in the case of the settings that serve as cross overs between mtg and dnd

wise dirge
#

Regarding Curse of Strahd, players are teleported to Barovia in the very beginning right? Is it depicted as like a separate realm or something connected?

iron saffron
#

I don't know if you're a player so I rather not answer.

jagged apex
#

it is in the 5e cosmology a specific section of the shadowfell under the jurisdiction of the mysterious and vague "dark powers"

#

and teleported i feel is not even the proper term

jagged apex
# wise dirge Regarding Curse of Strahd, players are teleported to Barovia in the very beginni...

to quote the 5e dmg "In remote corners of the Shadowfell, it is easy to reach horrific demiplanes ruled over by accursed beings of terrible evil. The best known of these is the valley of Barovia, overlooked by the towering spires of Castle Ravenloft and ruled by Count Strahd von Zarovich, the first vampire. Beings of the Shadowfell called the Dark Powers created these domains as prisons for these “darklords,” and through cruelty or carelessness trapped innocent mortals in these domains as well."

#

basically it is part of the shadowfell that makes the rest of the shadowfell seem pretty not horrible to the living of the prime material plane by comparison

#

and to my knowledge answering that part of the question is not spoiler like, as for the other, it would be and even then i don't know as i have not gotten a chance to play it and don't feel like reading my copy at the moment

#

now i am wondering if planar travel is technically teleportation of some sort or not, but far as i know, planar travel and teleportation are distinctly different in dnd

iron saffron
#

Teleportation is different.

#

Planar travel is between two different planes of existence.
Teleportation is between two places within the same plane of existence.

jagged apex
#

thought so, but was starting to second guess myself

sullen stag
#

Is bhaal pronounced "ball" or "Bale?"

iron saffron
#

Bawl

void valley
#

I'd have said Barl

#

Apparently though (based on where it originally comes from):

The correct pronunciation of Baal is Bah-ahl. Baal is therefore pronounced with two syllables, like the correct spelling of it, Ba'al.

jagged apex
jagged apex
distant brook
#

Are cambions sent to the nine hells after they die in the material plane just like their full devil brethren?

modest badger
#

That's a fun one, as devil's and demons explicitly do, but cambions are 'fiends' and untyped

sharp owl
#

Cambions are fiends rather than devils that are the offspring of (typically) a human and an incubus or succubus.
Concubi (a good, generic term for all types of such fiends) aren't specific to any one lower plane and inhabit all of them

modest badger
#

Went into that a bit up here

#

I'd say they probably should go to the same plane their concubus parent would, but concubus are in an odd position now as they are not explicitly devil's nor demons, but fiends (devil's in 4e, demons in 3.5 and earlier)

#

And this feels like a weird mechanical quirk and concubi should return to their respective plane as they have in previous editions

jagged apex
#

so while they would unlike tieflings have a potentially stronger pull towards evil, they are not truly predisposed to that nature to my knowledge

jagged apex
#

as a demon based one would likely not go to or even be allowed to enter the hells

#

but again, i feel it likely depends on what plane the cambion in question has as their home plane

#

cuz being part mortal it seems reasonable they would follow the same process as mortal souls when they die if they live primarily on the prime

#

though if we go by the logic detailed in 5e planescape, since they are classified as fiends, they would reconsitute on a plane that matches their alignment after about 100 years

#

otherwise i can't find any specific lore on the topic

jagged apex
sharp owl
#

I never said it comes from D&D (because it doesn't)
It's a constructed (insofar that any word is) gender neutral term

jagged apex
#

ah

sharp owl
#

Not all language here needs to be present in lore dndLol

jagged apex
#

i just was not familiar with the term, like at all, and could not find anything besides some homebrew stuff that seemed to use the term, so was confused

#

but, yeah if any lore for 5e answers the question, best i am aware of is what was reconfirmed to be the case in planescape in 5e which is what happens for petitioners or otherwise for fiends or celestials at least

#

so by that logic a cambion would only reform in the 9 hells if they were of lawful evil alginment

sharp owl
#

No, the reforming principle isn't based on alignment

#

It's based on plane of origin based on being a devil or demon specifically

jagged apex
#

well i was going off the process as detailed in 5e planescape titled "death and the planes" which is under the petitioner section in the multiversal menagerie

#

though if that was not the intent, then it may not have been worded as well or was unclear about it

sharp owl
#

Petioners are former mortals

#

Cambions are not mortals

jagged apex
#

yeah, but the section specifically mentions "A petitioner OR another celestial or fiend..." in what it describes which at least far as i can tell may be implying it also is the case for celestials and fiends in general, though if this is not the intended meaning, it is not super clear or at least vague enough that it could be interpretated that way instead of what they might have intended

#

otherwise yeah, would just presume it depends on the home plane of the cambion in question

#

i would quote the paragraph, but not sure if that would be considered sharing paid content or not as that was a concern someone pointed out last time i was sharing lore that i found from a book other than the 3 core books

#

but which ever is the case, it would still potentially vary from cambion to cambion and not strictly reside them to a fate in the 9 hells since they are not technically strictly devil based

jagged apex
distant brook
livid moat
#

Are there any humanoid dog-like races? And if so, how many are there?

iron saffron
#

Not that I can think from the top of my head. At least non-Outsider ones.

jagged apex
livid moat
#

ah ok gotcha

jagged apex
#

dungeon dad has done a lore video that also adapts a version for 5e, so if ok with using that, it exists, but is technically homebrew

livid moat
#

oh homebrew is always fine in my books

jagged apex
#

but otherwise he does mention 3e's Laika

#

which is official, but they were part of a web supplement and specifically a 3e thing, and super bare bones

#

and lupin seem to have been at least around in 2e, but like a number of creatures have yet to make an official adaptation into 5e

livid moat
#

I've seen some media make kobolds into more dog-like creatures, while other media makes them more lizard-like

jagged apex
#

well to be fair kobolds in 5e have elements of canine, mammals, and dragons, which resembles reptiles

livid moat
#

Not sure if werewolfs count either, as they are merely a transformation, not a constant race

jagged apex
#

lycanthropes are not really a race as they don't really have their own cultures

#

some have socities of sorts, like wererats, but most are not really fleshed out in a way where they could really be considered a race like say humans, orcs, elves, ect...

livid moat
#

Felines do actually have a lot more races surprisingly, with the Lion people and the tabaxi

unkempt merlin
#

While not playable, 5e has Gnolls.

And of course it also has Shifters

jagged apex
#

gnolls are not dogs

#

they are hyenas

#

while related to dogs, are not dogs, heck are more closely related to cats last i checked

#

also lupin seem were last officially published in 3e

#

and shifters are not only technically eberron specific, but are much more broad rather than just say dog

jagged apex
#

tabaxi as they currently exist in dnd are setting agnostic race of cat humanoids made by the cat lord

livid moat
#

... the cat lord?

jagged apex
#

yes, lord of all cats, and briefly made mordenkainen, a known dog person ie fan of dogs given spells he made that create hounds of sorts, reconsider his opinion on cats

#

as monsters of the multiverse describes him "the Cat Lord—a divine being of the Upper Planes"

livid moat
#

That is, certainly a very interesting entity

iron saffron
#

There are other animal lords besides the Cat Lord.

jagged apex
#

there were in past editons such entities that sort of were in between angels and gods in terms of power, they were associated in with the beast lands and were lords or loosely god like beings of all of a certain kind of animal

iron saffron
#

They're like the equivalent of an archfey, not quite a deity but they're power was almost there.

jagged apex
#

though the cat lord is the only one even so much as mentioned thus far to my knowledge in 5e and even all we know is that he is a divine being of the upper planes and he created the tabaxi

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

The cat lord first appeared in 1E MM2. Other animal lords are mentioned in the 3E Epicl Level Handbook (PCs could become one).

jagged apex
#

like they were just shy of being comparable to angels in power as i recall, but were more on even footing with archfey

iron saffron
#

The animal lords is more of mantle or title rather than one single entity.

jagged apex
#

as i recall, they also at least in their animal forms, represented the peak and idealized or as some may say perfect version of that kind of animal and what it could be

#

likely why the cat lord was able to briefly make mordenkainen reconsider his opinion on cats the time he mentions having met him in the part of the monsters of the multiverse player tabaxi lore that briefly gives us what little info we have on the cat lord in 5e continuity

#

so if they are still a thing in 5e and merely have not been directly introduced, that may be an element, if i am recalling correctly, that may remain in tact from past incarnations

thorny phoenix
#

When playing in the Planescape setting which is connected to the Forgotten Realms, is it possible for beings from Eberron to appear there? Both of these universes are part of the multiverse but I know Eberron is locked for multiversal travel, right?

iron saffron
#

Planescape is a setting and not a place. Sigil is the city in the Outlands, which is in the middle of the Outer Planes. The Forgotten Realms campaign setting is set on the planet Toril, which is one of the many planets in the Material Plane.

This doesn't change where Eberron is located.

unkempt merlin
#

Eberron in (wotc) canon is located in the Deep Ethereal

#

It is possible, but rare for travel to and from Eberron. Especially when Sigil is involved

sharp owl
#

Planescape is a 'connective' setting like Spelljammer, rather than a place

#

What places it connects to depends on those settings

#

There is, at least as far as I'm aware, no officially stated connection between Sigil and Eberron, something the settings creator has backed up

iron saffron
#

Sigil is the City of Doors so it's up to the individual DM if a door can be linked to Eberron.

sharp owl
#

Yes, but that's got nothing to do with lore

#

The only official link between Eberron and other planes is (again, as far as I remember) via the World Serpent Inn, which has portals to Fairhaven, Sarlona, Sharn, and Stormreach

iron saffron
#

Eberron came out after 2E Planescape so afaik there's no direct connection between the two unless there's been updates in 5E Planescape / Eberron that says otherwise. (Not a fan of Eberron so I know next to nothing on its lore).

sharp owl
#

Oh, and a portal to Metrol too

jagged apex
#

sigil last i checked has portals/doors to everywhere in the multiverse, is part of what gave it's nickname and likely why vecna tried to siege control of sigil

#

but in an infinite multiverse, is easily plausible

#

i imaigne if there is a door/portal for eberron within sigil, it spends the vast majority of the time innactive and thus not used since it can't be used if innactive and i recall reading in 5e some portals are only active during certain time frames or otherwise specific conditions

#

i'd honestly keep an eye on keith baker's stuff as if wizards does not connect them, is possible he will via a 3rd party book/supplement much like he more recently did with ravenloft/the domains of dread

sharp owl
#

As I said, Baker has corroborated the fact there are no connections between Sigil and Eberron

#

And nothing about Sigil says it must connect to everywhere, just that it can connect to almost anywhere

jagged apex
#

ah

unkempt merlin
#

Kanon is a bit different than Canon (unfortunately). To quote the first bit from the "Eberron and the Multiverse" in Last War

It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifically designed to prevent such travel,

#

In Kanon, Eberron isn't in the Deep Ethereal, but in Canon, it is.

thorny phoenix
#

Alright, thanks for your insight. So there is basically no 5e official/semi-official (Baker) material supporting their connections, there is even Baker who refuses any connections. Would you understand that like that there are no connections that we know of (meaning created by designers) or that it is strictly impossible for a portal to Sigil to appear in Eberron. What was Baker's statement?

sharp owl
#

That there's no connect between Sigil and Eberron

#

There is a section in Chapter 4 of Eberron, Rising from the Last War titled "Eberron and the Multiverse" that says

It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifically designed to prevent such travel, to keep the world hidden away from the meddling of gods, celestials, and fiends from beyond.

obsidian gate
#

Well we do have characters from Eberron running around in Sigil

sharp owl
#

I'm just quoting the book

#

They may have got there via other means, such as a Wish spell or non-planar travel magic

#

The only way in and out of Sigil is via permitted planar travel, and the cosmology of Eberron specifically prevents that

#

However, if you were to get around that limitation of Eberron and reach another plane, you could then get to Sigil

#

However, getting around the limitation of Eberron and planar travel would then throw you up against the limitation of Sigil

grim siren
#

There is this call out note in Rising from the Last War.

ARTIFICERS IN OTHER WORLDS

Eberron is the world most associated with artificers, yet the class can be found throughout the D&D multiverse..... In the City of Sigil, artificers share discoveries from throughout the cosmos, and one in particular — the gnome inventor Vi — has run a multiverse-spanning business from there since leaving the world of her birth, Eberron....

obsidian gate
#

yeah Vi is basically the only example, but she is mentioned a lot

jagged apex
#

now i just imagine the church of gond having a stand or something outside of the armory in the lady's ward advertising the the wonders of firearms

feral lintel
#

A church/store/smith sounds like fun

jagged apex
#

pretty much the same thing to my knowledge in regards to some of gond's churches

grim siren
#

Another connection between eberron and Sigil is in Dragon Magazine 371 as it is listed as a way to incorporate Warforged into other Settings, an origin story is created that a warforged stumbled through the City of Doors.

slim notch
#

what is "Kanon", how is it different from "Canon"?

iron saffron
#

Kanon = Keith Baker canon
Canon = WotC canon

heavy fulcrum
#

Does Shar have the equivalent of angels that serve her?

iron saffron
#

Angels tend to be good-aligned (the except was in 4E when they were "unaligned" celestial version of the elemental myrmidons) so it's unlike Shar, a NE deity, has angels serving her in Hades. She probably has yugoloths and similar fiends working for her.

heavy fulcrum
iron saffron
#

FR switched over to the Great Wheel cosmology in 5E. It was using the World Tree cosmology up to 4E.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Shar#Divine_Realm

Shar's divine realm was originally the Palace of Loss, which in the Great Wheel cosmology was found in Niflheim, the second gloom of the Gray Waste of Hades, and in the World Tree cosmology stood on the Plane of Shadow

heavy fulcrum
#

I see. So a yugoloth would be a good choice for a patron linked to Shar? I’ve read about a nightshade too

jagged apex
iron saffron
#

4E angels did that but those were more generic servants of the gods than the good-aligned celestials from 1E to 3E and 5E.

heavy fulcrum
#

Yeah from what I can tell Angels are good alligned, at least based on the wiki.

iron saffron
#

4E angels were different...

#

4E angels were called "angels" but they weren't the good-aligned celestial ones we see in the other editions. They were more akin to the elemental myrmidons.

#

4E drastically changed the cosmology, away from the Great Wheel. I try not to talk about the 4E changes because they were essentially retconned out with 5E.

jagged apex
#

the only nightshade to make it to 5e officially thus far is the nightwalker

heavy fulcrum
#

Oh that looks pretty fitting

iron saffron
#

In 3.5E there was an "angel" for Mechanus (sorry I'm still working so I can't find the 3.5E MM on it).

jagged apex
#

and remember despite being undead, nightwalkers are noted as being sentient

#

though on average they have a 6 in intelligence, so may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but individuals are able to go beyond mere average examples represented in published statblocks

#

one seems to be coming in the book of many things, so may wanna check that one out once the 14th comes around, but don't really need a statblock unless you are using them in combat, which rarely does a patron get into the situation of

heavy fulcrum
#

I can look into that. Seems there's a few options so I'll show them all to my dm and go from there

jagged apex
#

else you could just take an angel and modify it as per the options in 5e planescape in relation to the plane of hades which is where her divine realm historically was located

heavy fulcrum
#

An angel that's corrupted could be interesting. I'll see what my DM thinks of these ideas. Thanks for the help.

jagged apex
#

not necessarily corrupt, but influenced by that plane

#

which more or less would just be a way to indicate the god or narrow the potential gods they are in serivce to

spare forge
#

What do the Shadovar look like? I am running an adventure that necessitates taking the PCs to the Citadel of the Raven and can't seem to find resources about their appearance or official art of netherese denizens to go on

magic jackal
#

In all likelihood they probably resemble Netherese

#

Save for the ruling class which were fully transformed into Shades.

jagged apex
#

it depends, as it is made up of multiple races technically

arctic solstice
#

What happens if a Human starts following the gnome god Urdlen as their deity?

iron saffron
#

They become a follower of that deity.

abstract oar
abstract oar
jagged apex
#

eh, not really

jagged apex
#

at most they would have pale skin like a gloomling though

modest badger
#

Seems like Shadovar is more a culture than a race, as Scarletsteam pointed out above.
The wiki says the humans of Thultanthar are majority Netherese in ethnicity, as they hid their enclave in the shadowplane /shadowfell before becoming more multicultural- so would mostly be fair skinned, dark haired.
there would also be 'netherese human shadar-kai' which is a 4e only lore point (in 5e Shadar-kai are elves bound to the Ravenqueen).
Much of the Shadovar's lore is set in 4e, but their first appearance was in 2001 in a novel

essence of shadow has long intertwined with the souls of the Shadovar. Some have become shades; some are born shadar-kai. Most are still human, but with an element of darkness about them.
Neverwinter Campaign Setting, 4e, 2011, p.38
Althought the wiki also notes a tiefling character who is Shadovar.

jagged apex
#

not quite, they are not bound to her

#

quote monsters of the multiverse, their latest version and the setting agnostic lore for them in the dnd multiverse "Shadar-kai are the elves of the Shadowfell, originally drawn to that dread realm by the Raven Queen. Over the centuries, some of them have continued to serve her, while others have ventured into the Material Plane to forge their own destinies.
Once shadar-kai were Fey like the rest of their elven kin; now they exist in a state between life and death, thanks to being transformed by the Shadowfell’s grim energy.
Shadar-kai have ashen skin tones, and while they’re in the Shadowfell, they also become wizened, reflecting the somber nature of that gloomy plane."

#

so would be more accurate to say they are elves of the shadowfell, many just happen to serve the raven queen

#

but again, looking at races like gloomlings and the shadar-kai, is likely that the shadovar would have the pale almost greyish skin coloring do to living in the shadowfell/plane of shadow, so long

spare forge
#

Ooh thanks for all the helpful info and links people. I guess this is one of those somewhat “forgotten” parts of the realms. I went with grey tones for the art because I want them to be distinct from regular humans due to their time in the shadowfell and I suppose the remaining royalty are shades from what I’ve managed to read but I’ll keep note of the possibility of diversity of skin tones and races amongst the Lower arcanists to make them seem distinct from just grey skinned humans

sour trout
#

One thing I'm not too satisfied with the new Planescape book about: it doesn't give sufficient reason for people to live in the "bad" border towns. Like, the description for Hopeless says that its inhabitants have nowhere else to go. There are literally fifteen other towns.

#

Like, I get that people are kind of bound to their alignment here, but it doesn't really go out of its way to say that

jagged apex
#

good and bad is subjective

#

despite the scales each alignment and alignment combination is nuanced, but many wind up saddly over looking that

#

and besides, nothing stops them from going to other gate towns, just the influences of the energies of the plane which each gate town has a gate to, hense the name, influences the very core nature of those that live there actively, this is explained in the part called "planar influences", near the start of the multiversal menagerie

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

sure the planes might be infinite in scale, but the gate towns are not

#

so to me at least it seems like you may be overlooking some details

#

plus one of those gate towns is still last i checked canonically rebuilding cuz their town previously got too much like it's plane and collapsed inward through the gate to their plane

manic moat
#

Could anyone explain me the hexblade patrons lore wise please?

iron saffron
#

"You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell"
"Because the Raven Queen is known to have forged the first of these weapons, many sages speculate that she and the force are one and that the weapons, along with hexblade warlocks, are tools she uses to manipulate events on the Material Plane to her inscrutable ends"

#

That's between you and your DM to work on the patron. Not really a lore question.

manic moat
#

Gotcha thanks

somber moon
#

What color is history class?

#

For lore reasons

iron saffron
#

Ask your DM.

maiden mortar
jagged apex
serene crater
#

While its tied to more mtg lore, was the fate of the phyrexians on New Phyrexia ever mentioned post march of the machine? (Planning on a mtg campaign that takes place post MoM)

feral lintel
#

They had really bad story for the ONE set

serene crater
#

I thought that was only the ones outside of the plane

feral lintel
#

Well, unfortunately, it's kinda hard to really know what happened

#

the plots a mess as of right now

serene crater
#

Fair

#

Tbh them just becoming inert after norns death was a let down

feral lintel
#

yeap

#

Does it even mention what happened to Urabrask, I wonder?

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

signal being out of range = no orders = standby mode more or less

#

it had nothing to do with norn's death, it was do to it swapping places with another plane and basically being cut off from the multiverse

jagged apex
#

part of me wonders if they will potentially reveal this invasion to have also targeted the dnd versions of those mtg planes we have, cuz far as i know they are ment to be effectively seperate and just a different version of the main one it is based on from mtg lore

magic jackal
#

Norn was trying to invest all authority over all Phyrexia in herself, which was her fatal flaw, she wanted complete and total authority which is guaranteed to fail.

#

As a consequence of investing all authority of Phyrexia in herself and dying it lost its guiding force across the Multiverse.

#

This happened the last time Phyrexia was defeated too

#

Yawgmoth was killed by the Legacy Weapon, and the Phyrexians were basically extensions of his will.

#

And his death basically spelled the complete end of the original Old Phyrexian Forces.

jagged apex
#

the mtg wiki seems to as i was recalling, attributing the inert being them being cut off from the signal from new phyrexia

#

cuz from what i recall hearing, otherwise a new being could have simply took control of the signal and thus the army

#

and though her own history describes her not dying until after the switch, the only bit supporting that her life being ended was a factor is the final line of her history that describes the events of her death https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Elesh_Norn#Death

#

so seems that it may be there is some inconcistancy as both are offered but the plane being phased out of the multiverse is mentioned more often than norn's death which her own history seems to be the only one that attributes it to her death

iron saffron
#

Why the MtG lore discussion? (Sorry, not a MtG player or fan)

tardy wasp
#

Is there any lore in 5e about what roles that temple priests (not adventuring Clerics) of Selune perform in their communities?

SCAG says that Tempus priests act as tacticians, Milil's priests are art patrons and entertainers, Talos priests are often apocalyptic prophets... but all it says about Selune priests is that they like milk and zone-out a lot, nothing about how they serve the faithful.

meager lotus
#

This might be a weird question but do naval cannons exist in current lore of forgotten realms? like around the time of CoS and DiA and BG3? Is naval combat just guys on boats shooting spells and crossbows at each other or do ships with cannons on them exist?

jagged apex
#

yes, cannons and firearms in general do exist in the forgotten realms

#

they are just not wide spread and common use so they are a bit pricy allowing lantan and the church of gond to basically have a monopoly on it

meager lotus
#

okay cool, thanks. wanted to figure that out for writing the beginning of my campaign. Given the story that I'm writing that's absolutely perfect

jagged apex
slim notch
#

gunnes (a corruption of Gond)
hah.

thorny hound
#

Are there animals in Feywild ?

sharp owl
#

Yes

#

All of them will be, to some degree, changed by the nature of the feywild, but there are beasts of all sorts

thorny hound
#

like what? are Unicorns beasts still or full on fey?

obsidian gate
#

Unicorns are celestials

thorny hound
#

oh right lol

#

but they are in Feywild

#

so it was just an honest mistake on my part

modest badger
#

An eays mistake to make. Unicorns were 'magical beasts' in 3.5 and in 4e were 'Origin: Fey' and 'Type: Magical Beast'. And in AD&D there weren't really types, but unicorns had associations with celestials and fey, and at least in one dragon magazine (#190) there were distinctions between sylvan and faerie 'fey' unicorns and cunnequines which were more lawful and righteous.

jagged apex
#

and in 5e they keep that trend but in terms of classification are celestials

#

but a unicorn is by no means an animal, they are rather intelligent, more so than anything that would typically be called an animal to my knowledge

#

some creatures that have the monstrosity classification would be more so what you would find in the feywild that would otherwise be a beast, like the displacer beast or owlbear as notable examples

verbal hedge
#

are there any gods who’s disciples would take in teiflings?

#

actually nevermind we’re settling for cultists

jagged apex
#

honestly cultists are more likely to manipulate a tiefling into joining them and their cause cuz of the negative perception many on toril, and other worlds, tend to have towards them simply do to their fiendish blood/ancestry

obsidian gate
jagged apex
#

as quote "The Crying God was the patron of the suffering, oppressed, and persecuted," the crying god being one of his title/aliases, and tieflings are definitely persecuted at least on toril, again mainly cuz of their heritage, many default to that cuz they are connected via blood or otherwise lineage to an evil being they must be evil innately, when the fact is that is false, but such treatment tends to often force tieflings into evil ways, they basically reach a breaking point and decide to be the monster they were treated as

#

is rather sad but intreging narratively

#

but at least in forgotten realms if any non evil god's faith would welcome tieflings with open arms, it would likely be Ilmater, least that is my guess

verbal hedge
#

Sorry I should’ve been more clear with context but basically
1.) Town filled with tieflings gets almost completely wiped by a plague
2.) Cultists come to “help the townspeople by recruiting them to their temple” (get some cultist babies by being evil red cross)

jagged apex
jagged apex
#

like at least the way it was depicted recently, i can't help but see strong simularities

verbal hedge
#

honestly that fits really well with my character being a Sorcerer

jagged apex
#

she does also have a regular ally in Talona, the goddess of poison and disease, so in theory all she would need to do is get a little help from her to pull off such a scheme to bolster her church

#

of course shar and her faithful would definitely not help them deal with the lingering negative emotions they'd likely feel from surviving such an experience in any way that could be considered healthy in our own world

verbal hedge
#

Well my character was also 3 at that point

#

But it makes sense since a big point i my characters story was going to be the church being attacked and him running away with a nun

jagged apex
#

poor child, no way they are mentally healthy if they did make it to adulthood, i am no psychologist, but i imagine you'd likely not be the most mentally stable if you were being nurtured to more or less give into your depression and what not for so long

#

not sure that nuns are thing at least in any churches i am aware of in dnd

#

a dark sister/brother at most

verbal hedge
#

mhm!

#

In reality all of this would be my character’s Fathers fault bc, yk the whole greedy dragon thing. (He sold is kid for 300 gold)

#

I was thinking 2nd gen Bronze Dragonborn carried the sorcerer class down, and then his mom was a tiefling, BUT this is getting very character development heavy, so Ty for all the info on the churches!

jagged apex
#

np

misty tiger
#

If a paladin’s power comes from their oath, then how come oath breakers are still able to use smites and stuff

obsidian gate
#

they are like....evil smites, powered by their evilness instead

fallow leaf
#

Oathbreakers ≠ paladins who break their oath

modest badger
#

Oathbreakers essentially embody a different strong ideal. They effectively still have a code/morals they follow, it's just typically the antithesis to their previous codes.

there are paladins who break their oaths and there are Oathbreakers:

A paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous paladin is fallible. Sometimes the right path proves too demanding, sometimes a situation calls for the lesser of two evils, and sometimes the heat of emotion causes a paladin to transgress his or her oath.

A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. The paladin might spend an all-night vigil in prayer as a sign of penitence, or undertake a fast or similar act of self-denial. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.

If a paladin willfully violates his or her oath and shows no sign of repentance, the consequences can be more serious. At the DM's discretion, an impenitent paladin might be forced to abandon this class and adopt another, or perhaps to take the Oathbreaker paladin option that appears in the Dungeon Master's Guide.
-Basic Rules

An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power. Whatever light burned in the paladin's heart has been extinguished. Only darkness remains.
-DMG

#

We don't get much on oathbreakers in 5e. They represent blackguards from previous editions to an extent. BG3 had an interesting take on it:

You have broken your sacred Oath in pursuit of power and ambition. Only darkness remains to fuel you now.

#

It's more that you are fueled by the darkness and resentment to your previous oaths.
Very Sith.

obsidian gate
#

the point of Oathbreakers that they have forsaken all higher callings and ideals so they can be self-servingly evil. thats why not every broken Oath makes you an Oathbreaker

#

an evil conquest paladin turned towards goodness and kindness will never become an Oathbreaker

jagged apex
#

an oath breaker basically is one who is self serving or otherwise serves a dark entity

#

as an oath breaker the inner power you channeled from the same source as the gods, all be it to a much more limited extent, via your conviction and belief in a cause, inverts, thus why it goes from positive to negative in some cases

#

the oath is quote "...a formality, an official stamp on what has always been true in the paladin’s heart."

misty tiger
#

So they’re basically so determined and believe so much in a set of ideals and beliefs that they can channel superpowers from it

jagged apex
#

basically they are like green lanterns, but instead of emotional energy, they are channeling divine energy via their will from the belief in the cause or ideal they swear to

#

like technically the source is being drawn from the same sources the gods do, is just obviously as mortals we are drastically more limited in how we can channel it without killing ourselves

#

as for oath breakers, the flavor text/lore summary in 5e reads as this "An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power. Whatever light burned in the paladin’s heart has been extinguished. Only darkness remains."

#

and to my knowledge in dnd in a wider sence you can repent, but if you do so a second time, that paladin is largely considered irredeemable and thus would become an oath breaker for the rest of their days

#

not sure how canon that last bit is, so take it with a grain of salt as it may only apply to some materials and how oathbreakers are depicted, like games, novels, ect...

#

?

#

not really the right channel for sharing ideas for like storylines and such

iron saffron
#

This channel deals with official D&D lore.

#

Taps on channel's sign:

Discuss WotC-published game settings, and the events and characters that shaped them. Wherever possible, please indicate which setting you're discussing: [Forgotten Realms]/[FR], [Eberron], [Dragonlance], etc

empty cave
wise dirge
#

Are there any other notable robot races in DND lore aside from Warforged and Autognomes?

spark haven
#

If you're restricting it to official playable races, I think that's it. If you expand the criteria, I know for a fact that modrons exists

wise dirge
#

Duly noted!!

jagged apex
#

though it would be a bit inaccurate to call warforged or modrons robots

#

as while modrons are constructs the they also have organic elements to them

#

and warforged also have organic elements in so far as proxies for things such as blood and muscle, and have souls and which is why they are humanoid and not constructs

#

in dnd what we would call a robot is what most in universe would call a golem, cuz one thing to keep in mind, unlike earth, most worlds have magic and those with it their tech is rooted in fundamentally different things than ours, that is why artificers exist as they do

maiden mortar
#

Warforged stats and autognome stats also work pretty well for a character as an 'Awakened Statue' or non-flying Gargoyle.

fathom belfry
#

Hey guys, can anyone explain how Azalin Rex was able to escape from his domain? Is this somehow described in previous editions, or is his successful escape an innovation of the fifth edition?

maiden mortar
jagged apex
#

he made attempts, but not seeing indication that any were successful

fathom belfry
jagged apex
#

looking at 5e's darkon, it has no darklord, later in the same book despite initially the wording implying he succeeded, it later retells who he is and leaves it vauge, and older editions seem to also indicate it failed, but not sure if these are 2 seperate instances

#

only dark lord to my knowledge know for a fact actually escaped their domain was lord Soth

#

mainly cuz they released him once he became desensitized to emotion that he could not be tormented by the domain, which is how the dark powers get power from these darklords

#

i don't count vecna, cuz while he technically did he basically outgrew back in 2e beyond the ability to be locked away in a domain of dread

#

honestly seems possible that Azalin could have had his soul destroyed in it's entirety in his desperate attempt at escape, could explain why he is not still listed as in powered and has not reformed

#

as if he was still existing in some capacity, there is no reason to believe he would not reform eventually like other darklords do

fathom belfry
#

Yeah, I think I got it! In the lore, Azalin used a doomsday device that destroyed his body and the capital. The book describes Azalin's son in the tomb. In the older books, Azalin gathers his consciousness into his dead son. In the new edition, Requiem (the result of the device) is called differently

jagged apex
#

i would specify the example i am thinking of but am not certain if it would be counted as a spoiler or not for a module

#

like all we know for a fact is that in his latest attempt to escape he simply vanished and has not reformed or been reinstated

#

as if he had simply escaped, no reason to assume the dark powers could not wisk him back in like when he originally became a darklord or like so many other dark lords

fathom belfry
maiden mortar
#

So it implies he got out of HIS Domain but is now stuck traveling the others

jagged apex
#

based on what i know about the domains of dread and the related lore, seems the most likely possibility is his attempt worked, but did so by erradicating his soul entirely

#

after all, can't be locked up in a domain of dread if you no longer exist

#

plus since he is described as a lich, is likely he could have gone mad by the time he made his most recent attempt

maiden mortar
jagged apex
#

to my knowledge this is no such thing as a lich name

#

like not every lich goes by some new name

#

vecna being a prime example of that

#

not to mention Acererak

#

also, only an idiot that is a non mortal would go by their true name

fathom belfry
maiden mortar
# jagged apex to my knowledge this is no such thing as a lich name

Not a literal lich name so much as I think the ritual that blew up his castle let him escape his Domain because he's not 'Azalin Rex' anymore, he's gone back to using his old name and is faking at having a living body (Or possessing a living one, or displaced the original soul of the body he's in.)

#

so if the players find out and attack him, and he's forced to go back to using the power and prestige he had as Azalin Rex... he gets sucked back in. Mwhahaha

jagged apex
#

not really sure that is how that works, honestly sounds made up

maiden mortar
fathom belfry
#

But why did Azalin become Firan again?

jagged apex
#

to my knowledge, he didn't

maiden mortar
jagged apex
#

honestly far as i know my theory is the more likely one to have happened

#

heck the book even leaves his fate vague and provides a table of 4 fates he could have wound up having

#

and only one of them gives leeway for escape, the others are basically still involving him not being truly free

#

so just by that in some form or fashion seems most likely he did not truly escape

maiden mortar
#

What's your take on the Mist Wanderer?

fathom belfry
jagged apex
#

who the heck is firan?

maiden mortar
#

That's his True Name.

#

Who he was before a Lich.

#

and the name of a Mist Wanderer.

jagged apex
#

it's listed as an alias

#

which means he just as well could have used it as a fake identity

#

also, the 4th option does not even support your theory, so you are likely unintentionally contradicting yourself

#

and the name is cited as being from "from the shadows" from the tsr days on page 30, all the way back in 2e

fathom belfry
#

When Azalin first entered Darkon, it split into Firan and Darkalus, like Strahd in Mordent. He probably split again or got caught in the Ravenloft cycle

jagged apex
#

and then again even if it does say that was his name before he changed it and not just a fake identity, there is nothing that requires it to be the same in the 5e continuity, though as i check there may be possibility, but is not likely that it is canon as he is given as one of many who wander the mists, likely they included him if you were to use that more time travel esc option for azalin's fate

#

but his fate is deliberately left vague, so canonically all that is certain is he vanished and is no longer ruling the domain of darkon, everything else is left up to the dms unless we revisit it after these events in a novel or other book

#

as to my knowledge they don't ever give a canon outcome in the same book where an adventure's conclusion is left vauge and or unclear

#

as before they list the mist wonders, let alone him specifically, this is how these individuals are described "The individuals in this section travel the Mists, carrying with them rumors and mysteries that can lead characters from one domain to the next. Any of these travelers might use Mist talismans or other methods to aid characters in undertaking their own journeys." end quote

#

so even then, any of them showing up at all is left uncertain, let alone him specifically

fathom belfry
candid timber
#

hello, i'm a beginner dm and I would like to know more about the history of the Forgotten Realms, so what books would you recommend about it?

grim siren
#

Well there are two book I would recomened. First is the third edition Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, the second is Grand Histories of the Realms.

candid timber
grim siren
warm glacier
#

about Tharmekhûl's followers

so he is the dwarven god of fire and warfare right?

im making a character heavily inspired by fyreslayers from warhammer

is there any basis to a dwarf commiting a sin and being punished by becoming a barbarian that his only goal is to worship Tharmekhûl by dying while taking down the biggest monster he can find?

jagged apex
#

his domains are forge and light, his portfolio containing fire, forges, and molten rock

#

he is only a war god in 3e

warm glacier
#

oh, is there a god of fire and war then?

#

or something that fits the bill kinda

jagged apex
#

his the present continuity he has seemingly abandaned war

jagged apex
warm glacier
#

and in surtur's faith? does it make sense in this case?

jagged apex
#

and seems war was a minor domain of his historically in the case of Tharmekhul

#

not to my knowledge and would be unlikely for a dwarf to worship a giant god anyways

warm glacier
#

then is Tharmekhul my best option?

jagged apex
#

but seems to me as far as i can tell these Fyreslayers would likely be a sect of tharmekhul worshipers that unlike most dwarven society would have a much greater regard for him as a god, probably decadences of the ancient clan that is most noted for worshiping him https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Clan_Melairkyn
and perhaps fell on hard times where they were locked in constant war with various evil underground races and probably would consist of followers of both Tharmekhul and either Clangeddin Silverbeard or Hanseath and there faithful working together, and depending on how that society developes that clan could perhaps give way to an entity being born from their culture which honestly is what Grimnir seems to me looking at his wiki page, like it seems like the kind of god that might come into existance under such a society of dwarves in certain position especially if being forced into a near constant cycle of war would lead to them to focus more on Tharmekhul's role in weapon creation that gave him a minor war domani following in 3e if i had to figure out a reasonable way to transplant them into dnd

#

so far as i can tell you could make either of those 3 gods work, the rest would mainly come down to their background, their life experiences, the way they view the world around them, how they view the gods, ect..., though different ones will require different work and different things to be added for that idea

#

and apparently at least according to the book it is cited from, that everfire is the source of the finest magical weapons in faerun, at least back in 3e

#

but looks like the latest lore that we got implies that place collapsed, but though ruled by orcs and the dwarven part collapsing, there probably is enough wiggle room for you to insert your fyreslayer based dwarves as a sort of surviving version of the Vigilant who would presumably also be acting as a sort of resistance or freedom fighters against what might be left of hartusk's forces https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hartusk or maybe being more proactive in preventing orcs from taking over the place again, since hartusk was killed about a decade ago or so in relation to present day

#

if anything i am sure at the very list the stuff i have digged up and shared probably gives enough pieces to put your idea into action, just will require a bit of thought and work to string it together

#

so hopefully i was able to help at least a little bit

warm glacier
manic moat
#

ok so, in a campaign i’m playing in, asmodeus just killed oghma in a single strike and ate him, absorbing his power

i’m curious, canonically what would that move imply, wouldn’t this start a war between deities? would it be this easy to kill him for asmodeus?

iron saffron
#

I don't see how official canon would apply to something that happened at your table.

#

What happened is canon at your table.

manic moat
#

it’s a curiosity, of course i know that will never apply to my campaign

#

just curious about how that would play out in the canon setting

iron saffron
#

There is no one canon setting though.

manic moat
#

gotcha thanks

distant brook
gray ember
#

What would be an appropriate offering to Ilmater to cast divination??

jagged apex
#

otherwise i could not really find any indication of any particular offering to their faith they would give their god

jagged apex
#

especially since the only dragon listed among the creatures for the book is a white dragon

#

honestly idk what that pic is even from, just is labeled "Green dragon viz" on the forgotten realms wiki

#

if nothing else i'd be curious where it is even from

terse pumice
#

Does anyone know the history of the creation of the Filborg race? They are very reminiscent of Ogier from the Wheel of Time novels.

modest badger
#

Meta wise, they're based on Firbolg from Irish legend, but very, very loosely.
In 1e-3e they were basically giantish red-haired humans.
4e tried to make them more dark fey.
5e went with gentle woodland blueskinned furry-ish folk.

#

AD&D firbolg (cw/ for casual racism)

Of all the giant-kin, the firbolg is the most powerful, due to natural intelligence and considerable magical power.
Firbolgs appear to be normal humans, except that they are over 10 feet tall and weigh over 800 pounds. They wear their hair long and keep great, thick beards. Their skin is a normal fleshy pink, with any shade of hair color, although blonde and red are most common. The flesh and skin of firbolgs are unusually dense and tough. Their voices are a smooth, deep bass, thick with rolling consonants.

3.5 was about the same:

Firbolgs are reclusive giants who tend to avoid contact with humanoid races and even other kinds of giants. Unlike some of the more brutish giantkin, firbolgs do not depend heavily on raiding for subsistence, nor do they rely solely on force to resolve problems. A firbolg looks like a 10-foot-tall human and weighs more than 800 pounds. Its skin is a fleshy pink color, and it can have hair of almost any shade, although blond and red are the most common.A firbolg of either gender wears its hair long, and the typical male sports a great, thick beard.

4e:

Large, fiercesome humanoids of the feywild, Firbolg live for the hunt. They value independence, courage, and the middle ground between good and evil. They are agents of destiny, death, and the unforgiving world.

warm glacier
#

i have a question about dwarf grudges
dwarves are known to take grudges and be quite unforgiving right?
is there some kind of book/entity that remembers every grudge done to dwarves?

sharp owl
#

What setting are you referring to? The notion of dwarf grudges isn't universal to all settings

warm glacier
#

the forgotten realms

sharp owl
#

It's a personal thing

modest badger
#

I believe the answer is still no. It depends on the dwarf, on the culture the dwarf is from and so on.
In older editions, and early 5e, there were some generic ones, such as their 'burning hatred to orcs and goblins', but really that should not be a monolithic racial thing

sharp owl
#

Yeah, it's v.much a cultural thing; some clans would be more predesposed to encouraging their members to forgive grudges than others

warm glacier
#

but there is no big book or an entity that contains every grudge made to dwarves right?

sharp owl
#

Nothing of the sort is mentioned

warm glacier
#

i see then, thanks

modest badger
jagged apex
#

the 5e incarnation of the firbolg are basically those who were fey touched from being in the feywilds for a generation or 2

summer latch
#

I know there are a few examples of dragons breeding with hobgoblins to create an army of half dragon minions/shock troops (Azaar Kull from Red Hand of Doom, Blood of Morueme clan, etc.). Are there any other notable examples of this? I love this concept - make a ferocious monster even more WTF-y by making them half dragon.

modest badger
#

Again, hobgoblins + Blue dragons this time: https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Blood_of_Morueme

So not an unheard of concept. Get's a bit weird though when it essentially becomes a breeding program to make a martial slave force. And by a bit weird, I mean very, so might be lore to engage with carefully and make sure your players are on board with.

unkempt merlin
#

The group known as the Cold Sun (followers of an overlord in Eberron) is known to include half dragons of varying things. Mostly black half dragons due to Rhashaak iirc

modest badger
#

Oh wait, you mentuoned Blood of Morueme , my bad

unkempt merlin
modest badger
#

Looking at the Firbolg page for the FR wiki, it really shows how hard it is to try and reconcile edition changes using that style.
They still insist the Volo's art is an 'artist's error' despite that design repeating in Tasha's, Mordenkain Present's and also being referenced in new novels like Honor Among Thieves: The Druid's Call (A firbolg is described as red haired and grey skinned). The Volo's artwork is even reused in the new MPMotM.
But nope, still insist it's an artist error. Oh and the height descrepancy between older editions (10ft) and 5e (7-8ft) as 'Volo must have just met short firbolg it doesn't count'.

unkempt merlin
#

You will run into that a fair amount on the FR wiki when the editors don't like the changes to something

#

The concept of "retcon" isn't accepted easily

#

It's why stuff like divine realms and locations are listed the way they are due to 4e and 3e and 5e having variability between where or what certain ones are

steady verge
#

If I wrote the name of a war called the Pier-Minister War, would it be obvious who it’s between?

#

Its between the Harpers and the Lords Alliance in a semi-homebrew campaign

sharp owl
calm yoke
#

idk if this is a stupid question, but most places i look it says that genasi commonly know primordial, yet they usually dont know/have a relationship with their genie parents. Do they just naturally know primordial??

iron saffron
#

The updated playable genasi in Monsters of the Multiverse only know Common and one other language.

quasi bridge
#

Does anyone know of a herb in DnD to make people more complient, a sort of pre-cursor to subtle mind control?

iron saffron
#

Nope, that seems more of a game mechanic thing.

quasi bridge
#

It is? I thought it was an in-game thing. Sorry for getting the channel wrong 🙂 Would #dnd-discussion perhaps be a better place, than #dnd-rules ?

iron saffron
#

I mean if you're looking to add it to your game then it's a game mechanics thing so ask in #dm-discussion ?

quasi bridge
tacit portal
#

Question, is it possible for a chromatic dragon to shift to a neutral alignment or even be considered good, or are all of them universally evil?

spark haven
#

The general rule, at least in 5e, is that if it's sentient, it can do whatever it wants

iron saffron
spark haven
#

Give or take. A creature that lives its entire life in a place that views murder and trafficking as morally good would be very likely to view those things as morally good, but they don't have to

soft silo
#

Is manshoons last name known

spark haven
#

Non-sentient creatures generally only follow orders given to them by sentient creatures so for the alignment of their actions, see: sentient creatures

iron saffron
#

Even the "absolute" of celestials and fiends who are created from their home planes of existence can have exceptions. There are fallen angels and risen fiends.

#

If you want an evil gold dragon or a good green dragon for your adventure there's noone stopping you. This is drifting into #dm-discussion territory.

tacit portal
#

Makes sense, I know that that is a DM thing but was more interested if there were specific examples of this in lore similar to Drizzt and the drow.

iron saffron
#

D&D is very creationist so creatures tend to follow their creator gods. I use the word "tend" there because as sentient creatures they don't mandated to follow them. Eilistraee is a CG goddess of the drow, who acts as a counter to the teachings of her mother (yes, I have issues of Drizzt being the "only good drow" when there are plenty of them on the surface).

tacit portal
grim siren
#

"Drizzt is the only good drow" = people who don't read Drizzt. He is not even the only good drow in his own story.

Sure Zaknafien eats it. But it is he who gives Drizzt those ideals in book 1

signal perch
#

don't like drizzt and the author is ruining lolth

grim siren
#

Honey, it was ruined when she bought it

tacit portal
signal perch
#

personally i hope lolth turns drizzt into a drider just out of spite, Quenthel baenre throws a party in celebration and then kills a few surface elves for good measure

grim siren
#

no one denies he was the most well known example. But the hyperbole surrounding him has done more damage the image of Drow than TSR or WOTC ever did.

#

Have you read Lolth's Warrior Swede?

signal perch
#

No. as i dont like drizzt and considers war of the spider queen and lady penitent the peak of drow litterature

iron saffron
#

I enjoyed reading the early Drizzt books.

grim siren
#

you know bob salvatore was the lead story teller behind War of the Spider Queen right?

signal perch
#

and he didnt throw in his OP creation and pussy cat into the book and instead allowed the drow to be te evil arsholes that they are meant to be

grim siren
#

but Salvatore overseeing the whole project.

signal perch
#

as i said, dont care, i don't like drizzt and how they are trying to make the whole " oooh but not all drow are evil! now they allow different faiths in menzoberranzan just cause we dont wanna hurt someones feelings and being evil is wrong! "

grim siren
#

not all drow being evil has been a thing since drow have been a thing.

modest badger
#

Salvatore is basically Lolth as she is now.
Good drow have existed since their debut in the D1-3 series, and playable drow in 1e where expected to be 'not evil'.
Lolth had some lore in 1e, but a lot of her characterisation (and the drow as they are now in FR) is Salvatore and Greenwoods collaboration.

signal perch
#

all drow that lives in the underdark were evil, they worshipped an chaotic evil goddess and their whole thing was to sow chaos and dread. The followers of elistraee was the good drow and they left the underdark or went down there to try and convert with mixed results. Lolth will always be the main goddess for the drow

modest badger
#

Nilonim was the first mentioned good drow in D3. (Also, canonically in a M/M relationship retroactively from a 2e module).
The 'rakes' were a group of drow, elf, drow/elf, half-drow, half-orcs and such who were disillisuoned with the society of Erelhei-cinlu and were mostly neutral in alignment.
Playable drow in 1e Unearthed Arcana were expected to be non-evil.

Lolth wasn't even the only god worshipped in the start, nor later.

grim siren
#

Gygax quite literally opened the door for good aligned drow in 1985

iron saffron
#

There are other deities in the Dark Seladrine besides Lolth. Not all Underdark drow cities exclusively worshipped Lolth.

signal perch
#

but lolth is their main goddess as she was the one that turned them into drow

#

or the balor did on her orders

grim siren
#

Actually. that was Corellon Larethian

signal perch
grim siren
#

Ed Greenwood (September 2007). The Grand History of the Realms. Edited by Kim Mohan, Penny Williams. (Wizards of the Coast), p. 15.

signal perch
grim siren
#

-10000DR
Descent of the Drow: Corellon's Magic, as directed through his priests and High Mages, Transforms the Dark Elves, whether the Corrupt Ilythiiiri or others, into the Drow.

modest badger
#

Those roaming the streets of Erelhei-cinlu include these bands of bitter youths, who are often outcasts. The group includes drow and half-drow/ half-humans, the remainder being either half-orcs (60%) or half-drow/half-elves (40%)
(....)
They are hostile to all they perceive as part of the system which prevails in their world, and the drow with them are of the few who are neither totally degenerate nor wholly evil; they hate the society around them and see no good in it. If the party manages a friendly meeting with these types, the youths tell them about the worship of the Demoness Lolth and the way to her Egg.
-Vault of the Drow, 1978

He is Nilonim, a dissident drow captured in Erelhei-Cinlu where he led a band of rebels attempting to overthrow noble rule. He has a slight but terrible tendency towards good deeds.

  • Vault of the Drow, 1978
    Nilonim is listed as N (G)

Drow are generally evil and chaotic in nature, though player characters are not required to be so. A dark elf player character is considered an outcast from his or her homeland deep within the earth, whether by matter of choice, alignment, or merely being on the losing side of some family-wide power struggle
Unearthed Arcana, 1985

iron saffron
#

[pulls out a bag of popcorn and watches the battle of citations]

grim siren
#

Corellon targeted all Ilythiiri, not just those that worshipped Lolth.

#

That note that all ilythiiri not just the lolth worshippers were targeted pave the way to the Aevendrow and the Lorendrow introduced in 2021.

signal perch
grim siren
#

I just provided you with the source text and the page number.

signal perch
# grim siren I just provided you with the source text and the page number.

After the Descent, Wendonai continued his work, acting as an adviser, tutor, and sometimes consort to the most powerful drow Matron Mothers. He tried to claim a little power for himself by leading a successful drow and duergar attack against the Elven Court in −4400 DR, called the Dark Court Slaughter. Wendonai's efforts at personal growth over the next two millennia earned Lolth's ire as she had no intention to let the drow return to the surface.

modest badger
#

I mean in 5e, the lore changes again as well, but even within the context, Kas has proven that's not the case.
Editions also can really play into this. 4e wanted it much more to be 'drow are 99.9999% evil', where as older editions have always allowed for non-evil drow, and in 5e there are non-lolthian drow groups

iron saffron
grim siren
#

Even Mordenkainen says this.

The so-called descent of the drow isn’t one moment in history, but the result of conflict between godly powers in an era that has become myth to mortals. My investigations indicate it occurred in different worlds of the Material Plane at different times. I have even discovered one world, Krynn, where it has yet to come to pass.

signal perch
#

Station: In all the world of the drow, there is no more important word. It is the calling of their—of our—religion, the incessant pulling of hungering heartstrings. Ambition overrides good sense and compassion is thrown away in its face, all in the name of Lloth, the Spider Queen.

grim siren
#

"Of our"

that is a specific person. and a specific person should not be taken as the spokes person for a species.

And that is from a dude who was brainwashed to think that from birth and still managed to not succumb to the spider queen

signal perch
#

it was said by drizzt

grim siren
#

Am aware

signal perch
#

so yea lolth is the main goddess of the drow

grim siren
#

Drizzt who's experience with the drow until book 37 was drow from this one singular city and a couple from Ched Nasad.

crude blaze
#

It sounds less like proven fact and more like doctrine he was forced to believe, but that could just be my two cents

modest badger
#

Oh, also on the Lady Penitent and Drizzt drow stuff I have notes on that!
See, Lisa Smedmen used to get flak for how she handled Elistraee and killing her off, but it was actually a written requirement because 4e wanted mostly evil drow. Because 4e wanted most things to be fightable. Including metallic dragons, and firbolg and so on.

#

As soon as I read the fate of Eilistraee I contacted the author of the Lady Penitent series, Lisa Smedman, in regard to the fate of the Lolth’s two children, Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Ms. Smedman was quite delightful to talk about and answer of my frantic questions. Most important to me was why, or if, Eilistraee had been killed. Ms. Smedman had this to say:
I would have love to have kept both Eilistraee and Vhaeraun alive and kicking, since they make such interesting antagonists for Lolth, but my assignment from Wizards of the Coast was to make the necessary “tweaks” to the drow pantheon. WOTC stipulated that they had to die, but I had the fun of coming up with the gruesome details. Whether Eilistraee or Vhaeraun are ever resurrected (either in game material or a novel) is strictly up to WOTC — although individual DMs can do as they will, within their own campaigns. Hopefully, I’ve written in a couple of “loopholes” in my trilogy that they can use!” -Lisa Smedman.
( Eilistraee.org, “Eilistraee is not dead!”, December 25th 2012. This site can be accessed by Wayback Machine and the latter half of the quote ended up in a reddit post in 2015, and shortly after referenced again in other forums)

I can't speak much with regard to the story of Eilistraee thus far, as I was not involved in its creation or evolution. However, I know that during the 3E and 4E era, t**here was a attempt to shrink the enormous pantheon of FR gods, as well as an effort to paint the drow as being almost universally evil to make it clear that Drizzt Do'Urden is extraordinary. (**The argument is that Drizzt becomes less of an iconoclast if there are good drow everywhere.) -Chris Perkins, Candlekeep Forum, ‘Eilistraee and Vhaeraun are alive in 5e FR’, 2014

#

So the 'I like these books because evil, but hate drizzt because he ruins that' is ironic because they did that to highlight drizzt (and also so you can kill more creatures guilt free)

iron saffron
#

All that 4E lore was reconned in 5E...

modest badger
#

Yep!

iron saffron
#

I try to forget the 4E FR lore changes...

calm crest
#

Probably for the best.

grim siren
#

It goes smoother with drink

iron saffron
#

4E: Halruaa was destroyed.
5E: Nope, the entire kingdom teleport to Abeir and it's now back!

modest badger
#

I mean biological determinism is bad and also lazy world building, yep.

grim siren
#

Let us not forget Liriel Baenre

unkempt merlin
#

More of a loaded statement than you seem to think

modest badger
#

And also never how Drow were.

unkempt merlin
#

Oh there we go

grim siren
#

hook line and sunk

unkempt merlin
#

Was kinda expecting it

unkempt merlin
grim siren
#

Lolth looks at Vlaakith and is like "Now that is how its done."

unkempt merlin
#

The gith definitely still have some biological determinism going on. At least according to some recent things (like bg3)

grim siren
#

yeah

unkempt merlin
#

Considering ||there is literally an entire quest about proving that they are biologically and innately evil by default||

grim siren
#

in this world I will take the Ws where I can get them

modest badger
#

I do find it interesting to look into why things were written a certain way at times as well. Can reveal a lot about why lore is the way it is in each edition. Like Drow being a scary dark reflection of surface elves in 1e, based on St. Clair's Shadow People, and worshipping terrifying demons, but not being all evil. To Drizzt originally being just an interesting sidekick character to Wulfgar and then 'hey this Drizzt guy is actually pretty cool, make it about him' and so we had our drow protagonist who had to be likeable to the reader and now Salvatore gets to play with drow lore, or Greenwood adding in Elistraea with a lot of his free love values, 4e wanting more hard evil and fightable options, and then 5e trying to address the bioessentialism of the past.

grim siren
#

the world needs more wholesome men like Ed

iron saffron
#

I've always seen the giths (githyanki and githzerai) as warring factions with different political leaders (lich-queen and god-king) vying for control after the fall of Gith.

calm crest
hazy fox
#

There is Ondonti Orcs (basically Lawful Good Orc farmers) in Forgotten Realms as well…BUT never got explored after 2E and Many-Arrows Kingdom overshadow them in popularity.

tacit portal
iron saffron
#

Ondonti were pacificists as they followed Eldath, the goddess of peace and quiet places, after turning their backs on Gruumsh and his violent teachings.

graceful jolt
#

Can you plane shift into someone's domain? Like an archfey's domain of delirium or a domain of dread