division-universe

[cursive tapir]

If they wanted to make Keener look like a big schemer in hindsight, that’s the route they could take

Because keep in mind, we’re getting a new story expansion and stronghold near the end of Year 5

Calling it now, the end of manhunt mission will be linking up with Kelso so she can reveal that she found the Black Tusk nuke bunker/corn farm under NYC.

[marble dawn]

nuclear winter would give them a good excuse to return to a wintery setting without worrying if it made sense climatewise

[rustic frost]

Also may not be retcon, the ortiz/darpa thing, government is a mess of contractors and shit so that may all be all the same

[sick lantern]

if that was meant to be true, then they would've been mentioned the first, second or third times prior we heard the origin of SHD tech. you can't just come up with some new shit and say "actually they were there all along, they're super important to this other stuff, but conveniently not mentioned even though they could or even should have been"

[cold bramble]

Government corruption is a great thing to work with because of this

[sick lantern]

lied to by who, flavour text, environmental storytelling and the lore book??

[cold bramble]

Yeah I just remembered that💀

[cursive tapir]

Also gives them a logical reason for a dark zone in Div3

[gaunt ice]

devs would do anything but reprise a div1 gearset

literally just remake firecrest and call it a day instead of retconning shd tech origin for the 3rd time

[glad spruce]

Who would actually use a firecrest set?

[wicked gorge]

Conley

[heady night]

Finished the manhunt and Manny said something about people liking Keener in NY? Did I miss something because I just took the control point and didn't find any audio logs.

[wicked gorge]

You listen to the coms between each objective?

[heady night]

I didnt hear any coms

Is there a way to listen to them again besides replaying?

[wicked gorge]

Besides the coms from the objectives no, any talk between is one time, but just look up a YouTube who’s played it and just listen

[tranquil haven]

the comms you "missed" are in your collectibles under this season's comms

[gaunt ice]

Ok but it it would be better than ortiz tbh

[stray crystal]

"In the dance of life, illuminate uncharted paths with the brilliance of curiosity and the warmth of endless possibilities, or just burn everything"

[azure stone]

So what do guys think about anna you guys think that will be the new comms at the end of the season

Or just something only used in the next season and we keep isac

[sick lantern]

i doubt they're going to drop ISAC and re record so many voice lines for ANNA
using ANNA at all would probably be like a one time thing in a story mission

maybe in the DLC we'll see

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[azure stone]

Well i'm sure that all the story missions would not be replaced of course but perhaps open world content like control points and stuff. It would't make sense to keep isac if the comms are infiltrated

To be honest I thought with the start of this season we would already get some new temporary comms or something

[ashen jungle]

Is ANNA an actual VA? She sounds more like a voice program to me, maybe even an AI voice.

[azure stone]

It is voiced by the wife of the man who voiced isac

Alexander Ortiz and Claire Ortiz

[ashen jungle]

ISAC is voiced by Brandon Keener, unless another VA took over the job.

aka: Garrus from Mass Effect.

[azure stone]

Yeah thats the real voice actor I meant in-game

[ashen jungle]

Okay now I'm officially confused.

[lusty gull]

Alexander Ortiz and Claire Ortiz, are the creators of ISAC and ANNA ingame, ISAC is based off of Alexander's voice while ANNA is based off of Claire's,

No idea who ANNA's irl VA is

[glad spruce]

Unless someone from the Dev team tells us who voices ANNA, it's gonna be unknown for a while

[ashen jungle]

Yeah I'm specifically talking about VA's, it's mildly interesting that we know ISAC's creators name but not really what I was talking about.

[wicked gorge]

Imagine the irony if they just used a ai to voice AnnA

[loud pilot]

What happened to the base of operations from d1 is they still active or is it over run like why are all the original main npcs at this sad excuse for a home base

[sick lantern]

Not clear. The only mention it ever got in Div 2 was the flavour text for one of the season 2 I think? targets saying they were involved with an explosion in the generators

[azure stone]

In warlords of newyork its the first thing you visit. Keener and his crew killed everyone with his new virus. Probably to get the attention of the division.

[sick lantern]

no, that’s the second BoO in City Hall.

[stray crystal]

I thought I had the answer from a little reasearching about who ANNA's VA is, but all I found was "The voice actor for the ANNA AI in both the games is the American actor []."
As if the actual name has been REDACTED

[loud pilot]

Wloy is lower manhattan not near Central Park

And you don’t visit the original base of operations from d1

[ashen jungle]

I'm open to audition

Until further notice, I'm calling that ANNA literally is voiced by a synthesised voice of some sort, possibly AI.

[viral swift]

Pretty funny that they gave a reason to why the dog in haven hasn’t gotten larger

[glad spruce]

He's still a good boy, either way

[wicked gorge]

Him and ransom are the glue to the division

Does the dog at haven have a name?

[sick lantern]

isn’t it Baxter

[ashen jungle]

I honestly thought they had mentioned the dog was a Dwarf-breed before, maybe it was just a community thing.

[wicked gorge]

If the dog in haven doesn’t have a name, isn’t it our duty to name him

[tulip shale]

The fact we can't pet the cat at castle is bothering me

[pallid harness]

there's a cat?!

[tulip shale]

Yep on the desk near Wally

[ashen jungle]

You can pet the dog there, at least.

[halcyon iron]

but why is it's head so big?

[ashen jungle]

The dwarf german shepard? Google the real ones.

[halcyon iron]

huh, I guess they do look like that

[wicked gorge]

It’s still a good boy

[azure stone]

What are you guys wildest theories on what will happen next and in the future of division

[wicked gorge]

That our agent is a elite sleeper hunter when activated will kill most of the White House chain of command and Kelso kills us

[neat parrot]

we would surely be the best hunter if we joined them, we never speak, we rolled over anything on our path so far ( rogues.BTSU,hunters) and worthy targets like faye lau, keener, Recruiter, Deceit, Bardon. we are pretty much a terminator.

[hardy oar]

1. Schaeffer will wake up from coma and tell us all about Sokolova's plan. We'll also get access to the Diamond AI and get Warhounds and Hacker Pulse

2. We will get help from LMB in fighting the Black Tusk and McManus.

3. We will learn that Kandel has helped Keener with the Eclipse virus. Also Keener and president Ellis faked their death.

4. Kelso never existed and her real name is Cassandra. We will meet Cassandra in Brooklyn and she will warn us about impending doom coming to NYC and Washington DC.

5. McManus will kill Sokolova and Anderson and the Hunters will rebel against him.

6. Hunters, LMB, BTSU, Rogues and the True Sons will help the Division and JTF in stopping McManus from launching a nuke towards NYC and Washington DC.

[neat parrot]

ahhh it would be awesome having some LMB remnants fighting by our side, maybe having them on the dlc, when you signal for allies to take over a control point, it would be LMB + JTF helping. that's actually not too far fetched.

[tepid ibex]

Idk if i can say this but , guys, i can only get so erect with theories of LMB breaking good

[gaunt ice]

Unless there’s a retcon LMB has been completely wiped out after Dragov took Wall Street

[tepid ibex]

Ok, debbie downer!

[gaunt ice]

Also lets be real LMB would singlehandedly obliterate black tusk

[tepid ibex]

You're goddamn right

[wicked gorge]

If I remember after the death of bliss and the events after the water plant, most of the Lmb either joined the JTF or Black Tusk

[tepid ibex]

most

Doesnt mean a minority couldnt have rebuilt their numbers

[wicked gorge]

Didnt Ubisoft had some hyenas with Walter and Jessie as names as an Easter egg?

[ashen jungle]

Unless there were more in div2, the only breaking bad reference I know of is in div1 and 2 guys just outside of the "end of the world" party.

[wicked gorge]

That’s probably what I was thinking of

[sudden mortar]

Anybody has a theory about who is the "unknown" person that appears in the background on Haven footage?

[stray crystal]

We also respawn - just like the main character in WoW is kept alive by the spirit healers, because of our "ultimate purpose".

[sleek plover]

I hope I get to destroy some of the Ex LMB BT guys with dialogue such as "We were just following orders!"

"Please spare us!"

"I dont wanna do this anymore!"

[hardy oar]

Keener maybe?

[sudden mortar]

I don't know, they already did that thing of "killing a character and then using a defibrillator to bring him back" with Hornet. A Keener follower maybe?

[sick lantern]

it’s probably this Cassandra who has been mentioned

[gaunt ice]

inb4 Hornet

[waxen sonnet]

inb4 Faye Lau

[wicked gorge]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it was keener honestly, I wouldn’t care neither since we get keener back

[cold bramble]

damn i really want some old LMB remants fighting by us

[waxen sonnet]

I work on the theory not, I mean Keener walks into the place and Someone's gonna recognise that face

It'd be like Sokolova walking through the white house, Besides Keeners always sortta had the mentality to watch and influence from afar until it's time to get his hands dirty

[wicked gorge]

Keener was definitely the friend who threw rocks at someone and blamed it on you

[stray crystal]

Wait, have you guys noticed the flavor text on the Mosquito?
"Time to come out of hibernation. Agent. There's work to do." - Calvin McManus

[ashen jungle]

Do mosquitos hibernate?

[stray crystal]

I don't think so, but Busy Little Bee has "Practically perfect in every way. As long as you never miss." on it, which doesn't sound very bee like either.
I was just curious, because. What Agent is Calvin talking to? Us? When? Why?

[ashen jungle]

Practically Perfect in every way is a reference to Mary Poppins, of all things.
I'd assume the BLB part is too.

unsure about the mosquito though.

[stray crystal]

I mean, I see your point (and looking at some of the other flavor texts I also notice some references), but this just seems like a direct hint to lore more than anything.
A hibernating Agent. Calvin McManus. Rogues/Hunters among us. Is it the recruiter?

[stray crystal]

Is it secretly us?

[ashen jungle]

I assume it's the Recruiter, but could be someone else.
we haven't heard from Sawyer in a while, who knows!

[stray crystal]

I guess lorewise we find the Mosquito as part of the search for Kelso, right? Or is that too speculative? I dunno, that flavor text just ignited something in me, because of our past conversations here.

[ashen jungle]

No no, it's a good find to notice that. I certainly didn't.

looking through the descriptions and I only just noticed that the Vile is a BTSU mask.

ah wait, Calvin's name is also on the Rugged Gloves.

"Can't say I invented this, but at least I had a hand in it." -Calvin McManus

[stray crystal]

I was randomly looking at my exotic pistols, as I was thinking of a way to gain proficiency for it when I happened to notice Calvin's name.

[ashen jungle]

So he's either going for a pun, or they are literally based off his hands.

[stray crystal]

Maybe he used them? Will use them when we finally see him?

As in he literally had his hand in it.

[ashen jungle]

It is entirely possible. His name is on at least two of them though so

[cold bramble]

wait so whats the most recent catch up on him

i saw something abt how he let the rogues keep their tech, even though it was stated they're cut off ISAC

[urban musk]

what do you think of "Bernard Gamble?"

Hint: The Division 1.

[sleek plover]

Only way for him to properly atone for his sins against freedom is painful death. A sacrifice for our lady liberty.

[wicked gorge]

One can dream

[sleek plover]

I get this feeling that soon there will be a new DZ rogue mode where you play as the hunter

[tulip shale]

It could just be refering at the division's activation, nothing more

[stray crystal]

While I can agree with you, McManus had nothing to do with the activation nor SHD directly.
"On the organizational chart of the U.S. federal government, the Strategic Homeland Division is formally listed as part of the Department of Homeland Security. However, The Division reports directly to - and only to - the president of the United States."
I personally believe it's a hint in some form. I'm unsure if our character is the only one directly addressed as Agent, and only that.

[stray crystal]

I'm unsure here, because prior to Keener activating ANNA to be the rogue network (it was disabled, Theo somehow got access to it and retrofitted it to be the Rogue Network), I'm not sure how they used their SHD Tech.
If we theoretically went Rogue, would ISAC just disconnect from our watches? I don't think that exact process is explained anywhere - especially as to how it was prior to ANNA, which was about 7 or so months.

On the other hand, ISAC says "SHD Tech detected" whenever you encounter drones in Black Tusk missions, in the Summit etc.
They control the drones via DIAMOND (if they control the drones).

[tulip shale]

It's explained in descent comms

Regarding the désactivation of rogue's watches

[waxen sonnet]

Hunters are Sleeper Agents within the SHD, He's Probably meaning the Quote as Activation of a Hunter or hunters for a task.

[waxen sonnet]

Elite Hunters will turn on McManus or Sokolova and execute him/her in the opening moments of a Fight for power between BTSU and Homeland Security for the presidency

[sick lantern]

one would assume that rogue agents simply hacked their own SHD tech when they went rogue. seeing as they can hack others’ and their own

[waxen sonnet]

The Rogue network pre-ANNA was just the SHD network that a rogue could still functionally use skills with, but warn other agents within close distances a nearby agent is Rogue.

It was this way after Ortiz Electronics activated the Rogue protocol to allow agents to use skills even if marked as rogue after a First wave agent was killed breaking into a pharmacy for medicine for a gunshot wound, marking her as rogue and killing the turret that was protecting her as she saw to her wounds.

Descent Comms 22 "Release"

[raw yew]

Did they recast Kelso?

[surreal hearth]

I don’t get it why Natalya decided to commit propaganda? Is she running out of bodies for us to shoot? Or is it because she decided to get out of her bunker to tell her “we are not your enemies” after witnessing hostage execution

I like the black tusk better when they were just a secretive organization run by shaeffer and not by some complete oligarch that wants nothing more than US control. Now she’s exposing herself to the world putting herself a big target on her head

[surreal hearth]

There’s a vicious power trip or struggle going on

[sick lantern]

i know i’m saying that’s dumb.

[wicked gorge]

Ubisoft villain go talk

[waxen sonnet]

Not really, It's a safety mechanism, If an Agent was marked as rogue for say, the Pharamacy incident, that's not really a rogue agent...

[ashen jungle]

That one never made sense to me. The entire point of an Agent is to adapt to the situation and use their skills and training to survive.

Like, if it was a bank and they were just going after money I'd understand it more, but even then it's understandable if the situation called for it. Not a lot of place for morals when your job gives you the right to murder people who get in your way.

Like, we are literally above the law with what we are doing.

[waxen sonnet]

In the Descent the Ortiz family warn that ISAC is not safer than ANNA despite being more popular because its so heavily non-flexible in its programming, especially with it's understanding of right and wrong, While ISAC knows Agents have the ability to act beyond the law, it still probably marks agents as Rogue for breaking said laws believing they're off mission.

[ashen jungle]

I mean okay sure, but that doesn't help it make sense, in fact it actually cements that it makes no sense.

[stray crystal]

ANNA passes the Turing test. She has morals, understands ethics and gives you choices.
ISAC doesn't. You either follow the mission, the orders, the rules - or you don't.
Hostiles has to be killed. Friendlies don't.
I've heard about the pharmacy incident so many times, but I cannot find the comms/echo that details it.

[stray crystal]

Descent comms are revealing Black Tusk always has been under Natalya's control. The main reason her plans are now being unveiled is because we are actively hunting her, unraveling this deep rabbit hole that is the division, Amherst, McManus, Hunters, Directive 51.

[surreal hearth]

Under nat yeah but was in the shadow at the time now we know that her people are living in some future tech bunker which is why kelso had to investigate this herself without any division backup

Black tusk motivation was unknown at the time but now it’s revealed is that they want the entire US under the new Regime her dynasty agenda

But all that changed

[stray crystal]

In one of the first Descent comms, Claire Ortiz questions Natalya's secretive ways, asking why she's only known as the producer of "Sokolov Concern", that surely she makes more than just kneepads. Natalya responds by saying you don't reveal your hand till you know it's a winning one (something like that)

[surreal hearth]

Sokolov Concern was founded by the late father Alexis Sokolov

Was a typical weapon manufacturing like every other corporate weapons until nat took over and restructured it to her new private army called the black tusk

She partnered up with the secretary of homeland named Calvin McManus who’s motive was to invest in the latest most powerful Ortiz spyware technology that mankind has ever created

Thought nats interest was to use potential NSA tech and training for her fleet of warhounds

[stray crystal]

All I'm saying is, things haven't changed. Our knowledge of what is true has. The reason we might be learning stuff now is she's finally revealing her hand. Whether that's because she thinks she has a winning one - or because she feels forced to because of our investigation - that remains to be seen.

[surreal hearth]

Pretty much her hand has been forced but she’s always one step ahead of us or is she?

[stray crystal]

But has it been forced? Or are we playing 2D chess, while she's playing 3D chess and McManus - well he's playing 4D chess, because he has full knowledge of everything Black Tusk does due to his access to all 3 networks

[waxen sonnet]

Basically, ISAC is so strict to the set understandings its been programmed with it's then too dumb as an Artificial Intelligence to understand deviations from the settings it has.

[surreal hearth]

A prime example on how two super powers work

[surreal hearth]

Not quietly

Nat uses most of the hunter tech and tons of watches from both division and rogue agents to correlate data and create a vast network infrastructure the problem is how off guard she had gotten after realizing that there was mobile SHD cloud servers all over DC as an contingency incase the main shade network would go down

She got desperate inside and used one of McManus assets such as the “the recruiter” to commit and espionage mission into infiltrating and stealing the plans for the mobile cloud servers

[waxen sonnet]

We also learn in Thomas Parrots last book of the Series, the Black Tusk originally kept using Cyber warfare against the ISAC system (Like the countermeasure from the White house attack), but had to stop after realising whenever they'd attack the system, it'd take down DIAMOND too as they at the very core were running on the same system.

[surreal hearth]

Not surprised given these military tech raiders used a ton of forensic software to un-corrupt data from the shade network thankfully we stopped them before they can even come close

[surreal hearth]

McManus is playing on both sides of the war it be too obvious for the White House to become straight up defenseless besides where do these mobile servers came from? You guessed it

McManus himself

[waxen sonnet]

McManus will eventually make a power move over Natalia, the question is if his Hunters remain loyal to him or turn on him.

[surreal hearth]

Killing the traitor agent Johnson or the recruiter is most likely going to have an effect on McManus hunters

Encountering a rogue hunter is a 50/50 chance

[waxen sonnet]

I would like to think whatever we find this season or in the future will reveal the hunters within the SHD, McManus must have a way to contact an Agents watch to pass orders, same system could be used to reveal which of the agents are hunters.

[stray crystal]

Thing is, only persons we know had the skills to figure out the root access to all 3 systems - well that's Alexander and Claire Ortiz (unknown status) and Theo, whom we killed

[waxen sonnet]

Paul Rhodes is both a Electrical Engineer and Computer Science's Graduate, so he potentially might be able to deal with something.

[stray crystal]

He would've figured it out already.

[waxen sonnet]

Maira Kanhai too is stated to be the SHD's formost expert on ISAC (even more so than Theo Parnell) and has been recently mentioned in the last season

[stray crystal]

Considering she's gone rogue - and is in the American Southwest - she has no connection to the situation, no?

[waxen sonnet]

I wont spoil the book, but that first part is not all it seems.

[stray crystal]

Even if they reach that root access (so you can access all ISAC, ANNA and DIAMOND data), not much (if any) knowledge have been revealed about the Classified ISAC status the Hunters operate on

[waxen sonnet]

Without spoiling the book, It absolutely ties in perfectly to current events going on and is very relevant.

[stray crystal]

But is she in the southwest?

[waxen sonnet]

At the time yes, But If she has access to a hub she can receive relevant Data, and with the help of the Truckies can probably get faster transport back to DC if the SHD can't get her a chopper.

Hypothetically.

[sick lantern]

i meant the writers’ decision to bring it up at all as it was a question with an obvious answer already present. but we gotta shoehorn in more “isac dumb” bs

[sick lantern]

📠

[sick lantern]

probably cus people were talking about it back before it was actually in the game, and was just a bit of leaked info. it’s somewhere in descent officially now

[sick lantern]

can you tag your f_cking spoilers please?

[stray crystal]

What are you replying to? Confused

[sick lantern]

“I’ve heard about the pharmacy incident so many times”

because multiple people on this discord and the community discord too iirc were talking about it before it was actually in the game

which is probably why you heard it so much

[stray crystal]

You know which Descent comms has the pharmacy incident?

[sick lantern]

22 apparently

[waxen sonnet]

Not really a Spoiler given the White-house end of season 11 cut-scene establishes it....

[waxen sonnet]

22 is the one you're looking for my freind. "Release"

[daring jacinth]

given the recent events in the story, it could only make sense if the player ( the "agent" ) goes rogue at this point, no?

[waxen sonnet]

Its a catch 22 because there's a likelyhood some players wont like the premise of going rogue as much as others would like to be given the chance to be A Rogue agent in the story.

So I dont know if the writing team would do it tbh.

[daring jacinth]

:(

[waxen sonnet]

Dont take my word for it of course, I have no idea what goes on, you still have your chance perhaps 🙂

[stray crystal]

Thanks! Will get caught up on comms "soon"

[waxen sonnet]

I would suggest a small youtuber called "Rogue Agent", he uploads them all in very quick clips weekly so you can stay up to date even if you dont play descent.

[sick lantern]

“We also learn in [Hunted]”

which isn’t out internationally

the WH attack cutscene doesn’t say anything beyond “network’s down again”

[waxen sonnet]

"Overheard some of them saying the Countermeasure worked perfectly" was more what I meant, But whatever pal, you have a problem with it 🤷‍♂️

[stray crystal]

Yeah, I'm currently watching through NGN and will get through the last ones "soon"

[daring jacinth]

when i found out alani queso cheese went rogue i was genuinely bummed out

[stray crystal]

Do you have access to more of the manhunt than we do? Because she's not Rogue

[daring jacinth]

fuck

[surreal hearth]

Cheese XD

[cold bramble]

I mean tbhf

she has knives strapped on her shoulders and the rogue icon, has those same knives

[stray crystal]

Knives?

[cold bramble]

her rogue icon

the manhunt reward iirc

[stray crystal]

Speculation.
I'm saying she's not, as of now, marked as rogue.

We haven't found out if she's Rogue. ISAC has not flagged her as such. There's still 3 parts of the Manhunt to be unlocked before we get to the finale.

[undone verge]

I think she's rouge, everyone be going rouge, I wanna go rouge >:(

[spare arrow]

rouge is a color
rogue is the word you meant

[undone verge]

I want to go rogue and rouge

Brave six going rouge

[ashen jungle]

"Bravo six looking fierce"

[marble dawn]

wonder what the device kelso has on her shoulder opposite of the Brick is

[stray crystal]

Closest image of it I can find is:

https://images.app.goo.gl/G5uSnNY4ZAT1rnf6A

From the seasons reward page

[stray crystal]

Looks to me like possible SHD tech, but it remains to be seen. I was gonna say "armor" but eh

[sick lantern]

sure it’s not just… a strap or a buckle or etc

[stray crystal]

It looks "armor"ish

[sick lantern]

i didn’t see the red bit behind

it could plausibly then be a terrible shoulder pad. but i doubt it

[obtuse arrow]

There looks to be a red circle on a brick at the back of the pad but it doesn't show in this image, Maybe Kelso starts using ANNA.

[stray crystal]

Where do we see that though? What picture?

[obtuse arrow]

Just go to seasons desk at white house and spam L1 and R1 (Or whatever you use on PC) to show the rest of the picture, Looks like a brick to me.

[stray crystal]

#unofficial-troubleshooting message

Remembered someone had a glitched picture

Aaaand, now I see it's a mask

[marble dawn]

ohh seeing more of it I think its just her gasmask
why its wrapped around her shoulder like that I have no idea

[stray crystal]

Yeah, that's 100% what I see aswell. I'm quite certain I have an apparel mask that looks 1:1 like that
Maybe for the cool factor

[surreal hearth]

Let’s be real

Agent kelso has been on the shady side ever since we arrived in Washington DC from allowing Espinoza to die at the hands of a hyena boss name coyote, to disappearing when she got ambushed by the outcast then re-appear again out on the blue

After her therapy session with Michell she knows that she didn’t belong in DC anymore given how many trust issues has been going on

Her sudden disappearance and then agent Johnson popping out on the blue and then finding out that he was a hunter means that tge division is more fragmented than we imagined

[patent narwhal]

espinoza is barely if at all on her and she disappeared for like 3 minutes

shd being fragmented is sort of its whole thing

[sudden mortar]

And she was part of the CIA If I'm not wrong

[surreal hearth]

Right I forgot about that

God CIAs have far more secrecy than the NSA and homeland combined

[stray crystal]

Didn't she disappear during the Johnson manhunt? Not before?

[surreal hearth]

Yeah she straight up disappeared after Johnson’s arrival

Actually no she disappeared after rescuing Mari from the black tusk

[sudden mortar]

Wasn't before that? After the attack on the white house when she said that she was about to check the network status in NY?

[surreal hearth]

Oh right I literally forgot about that part

Pretty much

Actually no cuss she was with us going after stovepipe in which he was dead and we got baited away from the whitehouse

And after Lewis died at the hand of a hunter

Probably the recruiter

[sudden mortar]

Exactly, there was a cutscene where Manny said that the SHD network went down, and Kelso said she was going to NY to check if the network was working there.

[surreal hearth]

After the whole whitehouse and then shaeffer

[stray crystal]

"Shortly after the Battle for the White House, Kelso, Saunders and their fellow agents discovered Captain Lewis's corpse and activated a nearby ECHO, discovering that Lewis had sacrificed himself to buy time for Manny to hide with the unconscious Schaffer. Upon locating Manny's location, Kelso and Saunders assisted him in recovering Schaffer as Kelso decided to return to Benitez in New York, having grown concerned over further instability owing to the crippling of the SHD network by Black Tusk forces."

She didn't allow Espinoza to die - there's no way he would've lived if the agents left the building - it was hyenas, they're on drugs.
Why is it suspicious an agent is attacked, their watch breaks, but they manage to survive? Our agents watch never breaks, but that's main character plot armor.
When did she have a therapy? She left after the White House attack - and we didn't save Mitchell till the season after.

I'm all for thinking Kelso being gone now is sus, but nothing so far points towards that.

[waxen sonnet]

Espinoza Was a good agent, but he was too heavy to go in guns blazing alone against seriously larger numbers, he needed to have requested backup on that mission and when he didn't it got him killed.

[urban musk]

Bruh, Agent De La Cruz needs a return Arc. Bro was in the first settlement that got attacked during the prologue and got gassed by eclipse in NYC.

Ever since that, bro been gone.

[gaunt ice]

She still handled the situation terribly tho

[sleek plover]

Seriously, Hyenas and Rikers could merger to form an east coast wide syndicate

Since Rikers were group of inmates, some of them would have been from the same gang anyways.

[nocturne arrow]

New York inmates and Washington DC Gangs. Odds are, they'll hate each other enough to go at their throats, doubly more so if the Rikers consider themselves harder than the Hyenas, which they would, given what's left are the ones who survived our Division 1 Agent and were trained under Agent James Dragov.

[tepid ibex]

They might deal with them like they did with the Rioters for guns n stuff, maybe some spice, but yeah they wouldn't make an alliance with them or combine forces. Rikers are harder than Hyenas. Hyenas are just a bunch of goofs.

[gaunt ice]

i mean tbf the rikers were more insane than well armed

hyenas were secretly funded by black tusk,heck they even overthrown the feds for their gear lol

Dragov got spooked by Keener into helping him so not that tough

[surreal hearth]

Funds are mostly stolen cuss hyenas we’re wearing a lot of government gears

[stray crystal]

We know they're funded by Black Tusk due to the legendary DUA mission

[surreal hearth]

Yeah, bonded but funded with stolen gear government stuff not anymore thanks to the apocalypse

[ashen jungle]

You seem to be assuming that it's one or the other, but in the case of Hyena's, it's actually both.
They were funded by the BT, and also found old riot gear.

remember that the BT did this in secret, so they just "left" crates of supplies laying around that the Hyenas' would find.

[surreal hearth]

The oligarch didn’t cut so much corners to outfit her people with tech almost as the division

[stray crystal]

Yeah, Hyenas "found" old riot gear just like the Black Tusk "lost" crates of supplies during transport.
There's also the hyenas holding the president hostage which was 100% ordered by Black Tusk

[surreal hearth]

And it’s all orchestrated by Natalya

[ashen jungle]

Uh not so sure about that last part, since it was (IIRC) the True Sons who shot down the plane, and the plan seemed to be to land the POTUS at the White House.

unless that's been retconned.

I mean it makes sense. He shows up, Sokolova's plan is immediately completed.

[stray crystal]

Yeah, wasn't trying to negate those details, but Hyenas are all about instant gratification. They're druggies, they plunder, they ravage. They hold president Ellis hostage and we only find out by luck - they hadn't even started to negotiate? There was 99.9% some plan in motion to set up Ellis somehow. Whether the plan was for us to get him, so we could shift plans towards the anti-virals, start focusing on that before his whole plan was set in motion - or if they intended to reveal him later, well. That's as much speculation as them keeping him because of BT. But it's stuff that makes sense now - because of what we know. It's not a theory that would've been close to plausible back then.

[ashen jungle]

I honestly don't think the Hyena's taking Ellis was part of the plan at all, that it just kinda happened and the BT needed him back so they used the SHD server as a lure to get us in the same area.

[stray crystal]

I don't think them taking him was part of a plan, but I think them keeping him was. Otherwise, why wouldn't the Hyena Council start negotiating to keep out law enforcement?

[ashen jungle]

Honestly, I think the lack of law enforcement still existing probably factored in.

[stray crystal]

They still actively kept control of their area, pushing out true sons to the south, keeping JTF at bay. I'm just saying, druggies aren't exactly the "let's hold the president hostage and not even try to negotiate" kind of bunch ^^

[ashen jungle]

Hyena's aren't exactly just a den of crack heads, remember that they have an organised drug-making operation and control areas+resources around the city. They're a cartel, in essence.
the game doesn't do a great job at showing that though.

[stray crystal]

I wouldn't call them a cartel. The council only exists so they stopped fighting amongst themselves when also fighting the True Sons. They're made up of hundreds of clans with the council representing the biggest ones.
A cartel is an organised operation from top to bottom. Hyenas aren't.

[ashen jungle]

Okay cartel was too strong, but they absolutely are more than just a rabble under the Council.

[stray crystal]

I don't think they're plainly a den of crackheads, but every interaction we've had with them - imo - goes to show they have horrible drug-infused decision making. Craving instant gratification.
Anyways, it was just some added speculation on top of what we already know about BT and Hyenas. I think them getting the president was rather random, but them keeping the president is another story

[ashen jungle]

I can't agree at all, but yeah it's all speculation unless the game decides to flat-out tell us.

[stray crystal]

waiting for all of the Descent comms be like
And rest of vanguard, good lord that's stretched out. I never realized how little they give us at a time because I always come back at the end of seasons

[ashen jungle]

This is how you know Keener is a villain, he gave himself a callsign and made it "cool".

[stray crystal]

I snort-laughed at that, good one. Maybe that's all we find out when we finally catch up to Kelso. "Vanguard. I thought it meant something, but it was just cool"

[ashen jungle]

Turns out it wasn't meant to be cool and it's just because Keener was jokingly told to guard a Ford Transit.

[stray crystal]

I'm too tired, that was a perfect dad joke and I can't stop laughing

[sweet portal]

So is there any reasson enemy's or boss's in both games don't take dead division agent watches? Like does iscac know who is wearing it or???

Does it like just shut off once the agent is dead?

[ashen jungle]

I like to imagine there's actually a bunch of needles below it taking blood samples regularly.
I mostly like to imagine that because the Agents with a needle phobia are the ones I assume go Rogue.

[sweet portal]

Well I guess it could make sence, except for reason there is agents in game who don't have the watch. Like the lady at the theater.

She wears it on her belt.

[ashen jungle]

She quit, and wasn't marked as a Rogue I assume due to her leg being lost.

Sawyer is her name, you can find her kneepads in the Exotic pool. And also she owns the Eagle Bearer.

[sweet portal]

Ok thank you. I forgot her name some times.

[cold bramble]

i doubt hyenas know how to use it or outcasts, but true sons and BT im sure they do

atleast the BT, the reign of fire trailer showed alot of em stocked up in a room

[raw yew]

From one of the trailers the watch still glows but it’s fading as if the battery is dying or it’s losing connection - the one where they show cinematic view of the hyenas and the agent is dead

But coyote was able to use agent Espinozas watch while he was alive. She stopped using it after he died but that might just be because she no longer had reason to use it

Keeners watch when we took it had to be hacked into

Parnells watch same thing but this could be their own modifications

Personally i think once the vitals are no longer reading it disconnects from the shd network

When kelsos watch broke she lost connection to ISAC or so I’d assume cause she lost comms and ISAC read her as incapacitated

[ancient path]

and notified our agent that she was "down"

[waxen sonnet]

To add to Elmo- In the Division 1's Survival, if you were killed, ISAC Would sometimes also broadcast "Agent Killed, Notifying Division". Alex Irvine's Broken Dawn novel further state's that Division agents often will kill on sight those who aren't agents, yet have SHD Property, presuming its taken from killed agents.

[astral sonnet]

Presumably each watch is registered to its owner and works in proximity to the shoulder mounted brick, which would explain how Coyote could broadcast on division wavelength as Espinoza was still alive, and as soon as he died Isac broadcast his death and deactivated his watch. Hunters can have multiple active watches due to their unique AI, but my theory doesn't explain how various faction bounties got their hands on rogue tech

[ashen jungle]

If you mean the JTC mission and hearing Coyote talk, I think the idea there was that ISAC "hacked" their comms and broadcast to us.

you hear it a fair bit in missions, the enemy communications. DUA is the easiest to check out.

[astral sonnet]

But she initiated the broadcast though, we didn't tune into an ongoing conversation like DUA. I don't remember if ISAC alerted us to "intercepted communications" but if it did, she was probably fiddling with the watch and ISAC opened a channel to alert us after detecting his biomonitor going haywire from torture

[ashen jungle]

Re-play the mission, listen to the dialogue throughout. It's pretty clear.

[astral sonnet]

It still doesn't explain how bounty targets can utilise rogue shd tech if they don't have the hardware/software to operate it

[stray crystal]

There's some lore out there about how SHD tech isn't linked to the watches to function. The rogues use SHD tech and I imagine other enemies got it through Black Tusk in some way, as when we go to DARPA you start seeing different tech

Before Keener activated ANNA, before Theo found ANNA, they weren't on any network but still using the tech.

[astral sonnet]

When not registered to a watch, I suppose the skill would just default to Rogue status but I always figured the agent and AI was still necessary to assign IFF tags otherwise the auto-targeting skills would just fire indiscriminately

[late void]

You'd think they would design shd tech to only function in conjunction with a cooperative isac/anna, it always bothers me how random bounty targets get to use it

Like when the network is disabled in the recruiter mission all the shd tech fails

[sick lantern]

the shd network and shd tech’s connected functionality with it don’t make sense

so don’t think about it too hard

[sleek plover]

Does anyone know who exactly is "13" from the weapon descriptions?

[waxen sonnet]

Excluding BTSU because DIAMOND is at its core the same system as ISAC And ANNA

[waxen sonnet]

"Enemy Communications Intercepted"
"Hostile Radio, Intercepted"
"Enemy Transmission, Intercepted"

Basically BTSU Communications can get intercepted because they're on the system the same as ANNA And ISAC at the core
Hyena's and Outcasts aren't likely to be running around with Highly encrypted Radio communication suites and are probably on open channels.
True sons Im not sure about, Its likely given the TS's background they've some sort of Military comms, but seemingly weak enough for ISAC to brute force into perhaps?

[raw yew]

I’ve been pretty confused with the manhunt plot as they claim we’ve lose access to the shd network but conveniently have a mobile shd server that is active. I don’t find that dubious it’s just that it would be cool to have to rebuild that throughout the manhunt

And have no skills available until it’s built.. like how as you progress through story mode you have to rebuild infrastructure

Also once you have access to a shd server do they use someone’s credentials like Mann (Wally in this case) or is it flat out all access

[sick lantern]

but on the story mode you do also have skills available before you reactivate the network so that never made sense ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[raw yew]

Well from the cutscene when it gets restored the national network went down

No other agent outside of dc could use their shd tech but I think we had ours active because of proximity to the White House

[sick lantern]

there shouldn’t even be one super-node in DC you can turn off to disable the network across the country, it’s supposed to be decentralised and redundant

[raw yew]

I’m just saying they made it seem like we would be completely blind and the black tusk won us over but we haven’t felt any of the damage really

[sick lantern]

how convenient
so why wouldn’t other major seats of power/important buildings, military bases etc have such systems

[raw yew]

Broken Wings and Puppeteers had some really random plot . This happened but you never felt the consequences

For instance with Cindy… it would have been cool if fog of war was active by default as she was the drone reconnaissance specialist

Or if you couldn’t switch specializations at the White House without the quartermaster (I’m just assuming you could)

[sick lantern]

ISAC/the SHD brick/whatever has motion sensors and whatnot for agents to have intel on their perimeter

[raw yew]

I know I’m just saying that without changing the way the game works / what you have access to the lore doesn’t really follow

Like when you go to the dark zone and only have proximity coverage

Which is actually what I think was available whilst the shd network was down

[sick lantern]

Like I said. doesn’t make sense lol

[raw yew]

The only thing I could think of is the watch has a reserve power mode and connection on analog frequencies because when we arrive to DC it’s active on the emergency broadcast shd channel

But in wherever you were before it was down

[sick lantern]

what’s blocked in and out of the dark zone is outgoing transmissions, which (a connection to the network)an agent’s SHD tech isn’t supposed to need to function anyway

[raw yew]

I just think of it as when your phone loses connection lol

[stray crystal]

Honestly, I was planning to engage in this after reading up on it, but what a rabbit hole it is.
I know the mobile SHD server is mentioned in Descent comms and something that is unique to ISAC versus ANNA and DIAMOND. It's a specific thing McManus got for SHD.
But from there it gets.... muddled.
The SHD Network is supposed to work seamlessly with civil and military infrastructure, yet somehow the Dark Zones are blackspots - and the network isn't set up redundantly, it still has a core that gets interrupted sending all agents to DC and supposedly we couldn't use SHD Tech when that happened - but rogues use SHD tech without connecting to ISAC. And there's servers all over the nation, but no proper redundancy?

Best we can do is not think too hard about it and wait till we get 52/52 Descent comms, Vanguard being over and we head into the DLC. Hopefully by then confusion has been cleared up.

[waxen sonnet]

I always assume the DZ's have had such damage done to them as area's, the civil infrastructure ISAC would normally bounce off (Cell Towers, Radio Towers etc) have been either destroyed or are in such Disrepair they cannot be used, and given they're some of the furthest locations on the map accessible away from the BOO, the White house ISAC Servers cant provide adequate backup over range and so a localized proxy is used. Who knows what kind of US Army Equipment is in some of the shipping crates too that may be providing communications interference.

[stray crystal]

It's still a mess when you consider how far away from a cell tower you can get reception - not even mentioning how it would piggyback off any other infrastructure aswell as satellite connection.
It's definitely gameplay more than lore.

[waxen sonnet]

Just remember you're thinking of a standard "all is fine" comparison, Cell towers networks in the Division wouldn't be getting power, storms might have brought some down, some broken beyond repair etc.

[stray crystal]

Again, it's a rabbit hole and you're talking about assuming - and so am I on the technical side of it with regard to what we know thus far.
So I'll leave it at that and wait for 52/52

[raw yew]

From the dark winter video and the one division 1 cinematic about the dark zone where they left their best equipment behind the only thing I can think of is the dark zones are lost on the power grid or otherwise have been disconnected. I also think there’s signal jammers to deter civilians from entering so they know it’s considered a dead zone and they can’t call for help

I mean going in for fun is one thing but knowing you’re on your own that’s entirely different

Also it’s weird that transmissions can still occur as you can hear the extraction pilot

But then again the extraction zone never made sense cause the pilot ignores what mayhem happens between agents

[raw yew]

I don’t think it relies on cell towers but rather radio frequencies. Mostly because it’s an apocalyptic event and they’d try their best to work off the grid or otherwise not depend on existing technology that is relied upon to function a city

I’m just speculating though. I’m between satellite networks and radio frequencies

Much like how standalone gps systems work or car radios

That’s for communications though. The upload/download and link to ISAC I would believe is entirely different and bigger or more important cities have either one big node or multiple nodes

What’s surprising is that black tusk haven’t hit every node

[waxen sonnet]

They've tried, (Thomas Parrott's books), Doesn't normally go well given the SHD set up defenses to make sure the three main nodes are heavily protected

[raw yew]

Any idea where they are located?

[stray crystal]

I mean, the whole plot of Div 2 base game is them bonking the SHD core in DC

[raw yew]

I think that was the first half to be fair

[waxen sonnet]

The three main Hub's are located in the Midwest of the United states, you've another one in the JTC (What Espinoza is KIA'd trying to restore), One in that server room in the White house.

[raw yew]

The JTC one is not really defenses though which is odd

Just a big steel door

[waxen sonnet]

But It wasn't breached after all that time. The most heavily defended ones are the Midwest Hubs and there bunkers. The other's defences really are that they're hidden

[raw yew]

When u said defenses I was imagining DARPA mechs and shd boxes my bad

[waxen sonnet]

The Hub's (In the books, they've not been in game yet) have like suped up versions of the Darkzone turrets that can raise up from the ground and turn the entire fields into killing grounds with machine gun fire.

[karmic blade]

Do we know what ANNA stands for?

[gaunt ice]

a non negotiable acronym

[sudden mortar]

Since ISAC is supposed to be a worse version of ANNA, I will guess ANNA means Advanced Networked Navigation and Analysis or at least something like that.

[karmic blade]

I’m so sick of ISAC

[sick lantern]

nodes and the Cores are different things

and guess what, Compromised makes the SHD network dumb too 💀

for a system described as redundant it is such a mess that can be easily disabled

[raw yew]

I don’t think they were planning on an invasion tbf …

[sick lantern]

the cores were first mentioned as “being redundant so that by only hitting one, a decapitating strike isn’t possible”
and in Compromised… literally that happens

[urban musk]

lore is all wacky LMAO

Also, I saw someone insulting my boy ISAC, No, he's not a worse version of ANNA, he is a lesser advanced version of ANNA, but, the neat part is this, ISAC may actually have learning capabilities based on analytics data (Intelligent System Analytic Computer) he gathers data constantly and since he's an AI, ISAC could be getting smarter and learning more based on the analytic data he's getting from the surroundings and situations (sounds like something either current day 2024 AI can do). my boy ISAC is very advanced for his time, not as advanced as ANNA mind you. but sometimes we need a little redundancy. ISAC at first only saw the world in two ways, Good or Bad / Yes or No. have you all noticed, We killed a "Fellow Agent" (Jack Bonney of the BTSU) and ISAC didn't mark us rogue? ISAC wasn't tricked, he knew something was fishy. we gotta give ISAC a little more credit here folks!

[sick lantern]

truue

pls agent johnson too

yet apparently breaking a store window makes you rogue

[urban musk]

bruh wut?

we break car windows all the time, we loot everything. we break locks. do we go rogue?

[stray crystal]

Jack Bonney was never a SHD agent

[urban musk]

Have you played the manhunt? when we kill him it says he is, Of course, his watch was most likely given to him by Cal, for the hunter program training.

[sick lantern]

yea it’s some bullshit they added in Descent comms
during the outbreak in new york, an agent breaks into a store, she gets marked rogue and shot by her own turret, so McManus has Ortiz drop a hotfix to let rogue agents use their SHD tech
which doesn’t fix the overlying issue and is very dumb and answers a question that didn’t need answering

[urban musk]

by technicality he is an agent, EVEN though we know he isn't.

[stray crystal]

You just answered it yourself - Hunters aren't SHD agents. Johnson might've posed as an Agent, but that doesn't matter.

[sick lantern]

Johnson was most definitely an agent bruh

[stray crystal]

Jack Bonney never even posed as an Agent - he went straight from BTSU to Hunter training.

[urban musk]

Yes, they pose as agents, if it were any other system it would be fooled, but ISAC wasn't fooled.

and also Johnson was an agent LOL

[stray crystal]

Fine, but when we kill him he's classified as a Hunter.
Jack Bonney was classified as a Hunter Recruit/in-training.
If they had both only been classified as a SHD Agent when we killed them, ISAC would've marked us as Rogue.
ISAC does not have any morals. He's black/white

[urban musk]

also, this isn't my main point, ISAC isn't stupid, he may be simplistic, but he's learning.

[urban musk]

He may see the world in black and white, but even then, that's still a morality system. just a VERY simplistic one.

[sick lantern]

going by this nonsense, i just choose not to believe it. idk why Div 2 has been shitting on ISAC ever since “searching for way out of the vault” “PiEce oF sHIt wRisTwAtCh” but it’s never been compelling

[stray crystal]

My technical point being that:
ANNA is Turing Complete - she is an actual AI.
ISAC might learn, but at the end of the day, he's a lesser AI with binary morals that cannot just become and learn a different morality.
I'm not defending whether or not he's bad/the insult - they each have their own strengths, although I would much rather have ANNA's banter

[sick lantern]

ANNA’s voice and mannerisms are pretty annoying imo

[stray crystal]

This might be the learning you're talking about though. ISACs core is about following the mission - the mission being Directive 51.
But where ISAC will tell you to kill enemies marked as hostile and defend friendlies, ANNA would give you options to sedate, neutralize, knock out, you name it.

In theory, we have never not followed the mission. The game doesn't "know" you respawned, or left the mission or whatever, because it's a scripted game - there's no script of the main agent going rogue (outside of the DZ, but "ISAC can't see that"). All we can go by is then other agents like the one all seeing mentions with regards to the store break-in

I also want to give a counter-point. If ISAC was so damn smart he would notice the classified system running on top of the Hunter's regular ISAC protocol, which he doesn't. We can only guess whether ANNA does, and DIAMOND is more a purposebuilt tactical-AI

[sick lantern]

ok now you’re just making stuff up.

[stray crystal]

I need more ANNA, but maybe that's because I'm tired of hearing ISAC lmao

[sick lantern]

in regards to “ISAC will tell you to kill ANNA won’t”

Division agents have the autonomy to conduct their mission as they see fit

[stray crystal]

Look man, you're nitpicking - I was referencing the difference in ANNA giving options, and ISAC giving option - singular.

[sick lantern]

ok well, just like in the game, it’s disingenuous

[stray crystal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-A3XG_SAG8

This is the exact comms I'm referencing.

[sick lantern]

yes ANNA the perfect turing test passing mary sue and ISAC the dumb stinky stupid idiot

[stray crystal]

She gives recommendations. He gives orders.

[sick lantern]

in the cruddy retcon world, perhaps

[stray crystal]

Good talk, Agent!

[sick lantern]

what do you want me to say? it’s all true and good, coherent lore consistent throughout the franchise?

Kelso herself has a voice line about ISAC being “the only one who thinks we’re still on mission” in regards to not following Ellis, so ISAC thinks not following the president traitor is ok but breaking a window is not cool?

ISAC doesn’t give orders to anyone, the autonomy of Division agents is a core strength

[stray crystal]

Because here you discussed with me because I was being hypothetical, and now when I directly point to comms AKA LORE, you just go "cruddy retcon dumb stinky stupid"

So I'll and be on with it

[sick lantern]

well i’m not just going to say “yes i agree isac is so dumb” as the game presents it, because the game is showing its shoddy writing as always

[stray crystal]

I haven't said ISAC is dumb, so please. Be my guest.

[sick lantern]

^

[sick lantern]

^

[sick lantern]

^

[stray crystal]

There's a very big difference between "lesser AI" and "so dumb".

If you know anything about AI, if you have something that's Turing complete anything else is lesser in comparison if it's not.

That's not to say that AI is dumb - which I've never said. I've said he isn't as smart.

[sick lantern]

ISAC in the new narrative is too dumb to realise that breaking a window to scavenge an abandoned building is part of the Division mandate not a rogue act
you have the “way out of the vault” bs
you have the WoNY rogue agent retcon fiasco where ISAC somehow didn’t understand JTF orders
and you have ISAC being created as a direct downgrade to all powerful ANNA
ISAC isn’t just dumb he’s detached from reality to an implausibly massive degree

he’s a punching bag for the writers

[stray crystal]

Okay, so you're taking your own words and putting them in my mouth now? I'm out, have a good night.

[sick lantern]

wtf are you talking about

[stray crystal]

Because of the two of us, you're the only one calling ISAC dumb.

[sick lantern]

ok i see moreso now what that’s supposed to mean but whatever it’s not an airport don’t announce your departure
look if you can look at all that, and still think that the game is presenting ISAC as competent enough to be at his station, that’s mental

fricking “way out of the vault” bs
ISAC is canonically not even capable of doing his job

ISAC is written dumb

that’s why they had to get rid of ANNA she was “too human”, too smart, so they had to downgrade to an inferior dumber AI

it is a fact

and you saying “just because he’s lesser doesn’t mean he’s dumb” is you not knowing what the game puts out

[stray crystal]

What in the actual fuck are we discussing here? I'm talking about you reading your own thoughts into what I wrote and then calling me out or whatever.
I don't care if you think ISAC is dumb or not - this whole thing started when I replied to Dan Martin that ISAC isn't as smart as he makes him out to be. Nothing more.

You said I'm making stuff up, I sent you the comms - lore that you like - then you make it sound like I say ANNA is perfect and ISAC is a dumb stinky idiot, but now it's actually what you think according to everything you just wrote. I'm arguing because I don't like having other people put words in my mouth that I haven't said.
Not because I don't agree ISAC is 'dumb'. He's still way smarter than your average AI - but he's not smart enough to learn better morals, nor suddenly be able to pass the Turing Test which is the ultimate test of independent intelligence.

It's fictional AI - not only by lore, but not Turing-capable AI exists.

[sick lantern]

idfk anymore

and we both have better stuff to do with our time than go further i’m sure

[stray crystal]

I'm folding laundry, so even though it annoyed my I would rather stay here than keep folding
But, you know, hugs and all that

[raw yew]

Personally i don’t think he’s an AI. He’s a protocol much like Jarvis. Ultron is an AI because he diverts from his protocols and makes his own. Jarvis and ISAC respond to commands but I’m not too familiar with ANNA or AI

[urban musk]

The devs are being mean to ISAC.

😦

[raw yew]

With the Jack Bonney kill we had orders to kill him, so ISAC’s protocols were updated. Same with us going Rogue and being able to return to SHD status in the DZ. As far as I can tell Lau wasn’t marked rogue by ISAC but by those updating ISAC’s protocols. She was probably marked rogue by ISAC when she executed Ellis

[urban musk]

But the analysis from ISAC is Ellis was a traitor.

And we are still on mission.

[ancient path]

lau voice came from keeners watch before isac took over it

me thinks lau was rogue

[urban musk]

Not primary but secondary mission. Save what remains.

[raw yew]

Still you had orders to Apprehend Ellis not kill him. Same goes for Lau if she was still assigned SHD protocols

[urban musk]

We could've if Faye didn't kill him.

She took matters into her own hands.

[raw yew]

Eh again your secondary mission from then on was to apprehend Lau not kill her. It just so happens your agent is kill happy

The whole fallout of her death revealed she wasn’t supposed to die

Neither was Schaffer (he’s critical)

[urban musk]

It was an honest mistake!

And even ISAC knows that.

[raw yew]

Nah I think the whole rogue marking thing by ISAC happens when you defy orders or are out of a combat situation

Literally Keener got marked rogue for not following orders lol

[urban musk]

That's a plot inconsistency.

In the div 1 he got marked rogue by killing a JTF soldier.

[raw yew]

Not really he wanted to save the DZ. JTF didn’t wanna die

[urban musk]

JTF were recalled back by ellis.

It was a presidential order for them to pull out of the dz

[raw yew]

Ongoing with the JTF soldier execution he disabled surveillance beforehand id assume he did the same with his watch

[urban musk]

That'd be enough to mark him rogue!

[raw yew]

Also to confirm with you Keener got marked rogue for remaining in the dark zone and protecting civilians from Rikers. His spite for JTF came for them abandoning him and marking him as rogue it wasn’t ISAC who decided that without supervision. Agents who remained were determined AWOL. So that whole killing JTF thing 1) I could be wrong on the surveillance because you needed some to get the echo constructed and 2) keeners identify was hidden until you encounter the LMB… way into the end of the story.

Keener I believe wasn’t rogue when he encountered the JTF soldier suffocating from being hung on the crane by rikers. I think he killed the rikers and just left the JTF soldier. But there’s an echo, he’s just registered as I think a first wave division agent - status unknown.

[raw yew]

You know what’s funny is that black tusk probably didn’t even know the location of the node, probably not even McManus. It was defo Ellis who gave it up

I doubt McManus has that level of clearance to know where everything is located to protect against him going awol which he did … but what’s even more surprising is there’s not this big node under the pentagon

[waxen sonnet]

Yeah there's a reason I blocked that guy...

[waxen sonnet]

I've forgotten how to do the discord Spoiler thingy, but They know the Core's location after the results of Thomas Parrot's first Novel, Recruited revealed one.

[raw yew]

It’s these 2 || on both ends

[raw yew]

Any idea of the timeline? Perhaps before Wallace’s death … Mendez’s assassination? Black tusk hitting the JTC node or invading DC after capitol building?

[waxen sonnet]

Ok lets see if this works right SPOILERS FOR THOMAS PARROTS BOOKS AHEAD ||Basically A Rogue Agent formerly (Name I've forgotten) from Agent Brenda Wells's Cell turned Rogue leads a group of Outcasts to attack one of the Hubs in retaliation for her Parents deaths on Roosevelt Island during a Division assault, She assaults and breaches one of the Hub's using countermeasures from Theo Parnell to bring down the external automated defences and breaches the place, causing widespread internally and externally that reveals the location due to the battle and the after battle fire's etc||

Oh hey it worked, Thanks Arrow.

[waxen sonnet]

The first book is based Just at the start of your Agent's return to Washington, the Outcasts roam the streets, the True son's are making there first big territory gains and encroachments on the Castle and If I recall correctly, they even witness the downing of Air Force One

[raw yew]

This seems redundant to the whole executive authority thing agents have lol. I don’t think ISAC is enforcing any laws lol … if he were all ur shd tech would get you a seat on a convention

[raw yew]

The way out of the vault thing had to be a joke lol it’s just Manny hating why yall digging so deep into that one 😂😭

What kind of command is that to give to a computer who follows very specific commands

ISAC didn’t understand the phrasing lol it just meant Manny had to rephrase it to be like”ISAC plot a route to the nearest exit”

Which of course wouldn’t have worked

Exit is your entrance

“ISAC run a scan of nearby access points” is more appropriate

It’s just a play on Manny thinking he’s talking to a human. My guy is a signal technician he spends half his day over the radio

[raw yew]

From some of the stuff I’ve read about directive 51 … the whole computer assistant thing started to guide an agent so they’re not alone in the field. ISAC is fine as it is, there’s no need to make him more advanced otherwise it’s just a whole other danger. ISAC isn’t the one giving you your missions there’s a reason division agents embed themselves with local civilians and survivors. Their mission is to help them

ISAC is just a system to help you accomplish that

[raw yew]

||It’s the female agent from Ellis’s final speech aboard Air Force One as it’s going down?||

||who is present with agent johnson?||

[surreal hearth]

Let’s be real it looks like black tusk exposing themselves to who they really are straight up, stripping away every inch of secret we’ve worked so hard to conspired with

Like what’s the point of collecting it when nat is straight up telling everyone that she nows everything we already know by the propaganda comms

[gaunt ice]

"not as advanced as ANNA" so is that just rephrasing he's worse than ANNA?

[gaunt ice]

the final scene of liberty island showed her watching going red

the watch marked her as rogue from the very moment she hooked up with BT

[raw yew]

I missed that part … didn’t realize but I still have the impression that Rhodes did something

[gaunt ice]

was this like a new plot point because the JTF pulled out of DZ because they lost control of it,not because the president called it off. Ellis wasn't even sworn into presidency at that point

[gaunt ice]

Rhodes tried to crack Keener's watch but mostly failed and gave us partial access to ANNA.
that's the ingame explanation for the whole SHD watch buff thing post WoNY

think of it as overclocking your PC

[raw yew]

Interesting so do you think the reason Faye was AWOL during Liberty Island was because she was rogue before we encountered Keener or once her transmission was received?

[gaunt ice]

well frankly we don't know,since in one of the books there's a tidbit of lore about how rogue agents have a way to mask their status as on mission

so for all we know Faye could've been rogue ever since the network reactivated,and most definitely after she captured and interrogated one of the rogue agents in season 4 iirc

[raw yew]

Right. I’d take it she was going in and out of rogue status then and was able to override it as she was Acting Division Commander which I’d assume gave her higher security clearance to manipulate ISAC

[gaunt ice]

i mean thats a possibility.
its always assumed that she only went rogue after WoNY but cuz le books(nerds amirite) we just don't have a clear picture

[raw yew]

I just rewatched the cutscene… it looks red but I’m not sure entirely I’ll take your word for it

My theory is someone marked her rogue, not ISAC or she did something to make it turn red to mask her cover

[sick lantern]

straight up false

[waxen sonnet]

No, not her, I've forgotten the name I'll have to reread a segment, it's something Irish sounding, O'Shea or the likes

[raw yew]

I know the name

There’s something named after them

Also I missed last season but what is the relevance of vikram Malik and what he deleted from odea

Was there any mention of it

[waxen sonnet]

None at the moment, but we know it was Nat who pushed him into deleting the system and trying to get the agent killed. Odea pre outbreak worked with Black tusk on stuff like something computer based with Vik and Birdie and her power infrastructure

[raw yew]

Who the heck is birdie 😭

[late void]

Vikram's sister and apparently some kind of tech genius (also a bit of a psychopath)

Deleted stuff from Odea was likely referring to the big underground BT bunker that was referenced last season

[sick lantern]

you’re thinking of Heather(?) Ward
the villain of Recruited is Rowan O’Shea
what that guy is saying about “the first book” is him confusing Broken Dawn, Extremis Malis and the E3 trailer into a big mess

[waxen sonnet]

If you Replay the manhunt via the legacy manhunt section you can encounter her, But @late void is spot on with what you need to know as the short

[waxen sonnet]

Absolutely incorrect I know what I'm on about in that regard of source materials, as I literally stated in previous conversation with Arrow.

[sick lantern]

the air force one crash is from the e3 trailer, which extremis malis is directly prior to
doesn’t happen in Recruited or in Broken Dawn, nor does “your agent’s arrival at washington”

Broken Dawn happens some time before that and Recruited a good few months after

[waxen sonnet]

Proof you're not paying attention before you choose to argue with me, Arrow was asking for a Compatible timeline the first Thomas Parott book takes place in. Either way Im not going to continue this.

[sick lantern]

you said “the first book is when the player arrives in washington” which is factually incorrect, by any definition of the first book be it NYCollapse or Recruited
and you got the details of what happens in what source completely incorrect

[oblique dagger]

I wish I had your level of confidence, To be wrong publicly so often.

[waxen sonnet]

No, I did not, I stated it was "The first book is based Just at the start of your Agent's return" as a measure of when the book is compared to the in-game events Either way Im done arguing, I already have found you problematicly argumentative in the past so with respect Im going to go ahead and block you.

[sick lantern]

what does that even mean

compared to in game events… it happens after
it says so like 5 pages in

what is there difference between “it happens when” and “it happens based on” i genuinely have no clue what that is supposed to mean

[twilit maple]

What in the yap sesh

[waxen sonnet]

Have you done the Recruiter Manhunt through the Legacy Manhunt by the way?

[gaunt ice]

Yapping universe

[raw yew]

No there’s 3 division agents who arrive to DC with the trailer for division 2 … one of them is Agent Johnson, they all witness Air Force One in free fall and fight their way to the crash landing … anyways I’m asking if the female division agent of that group is who is being referred to

She mains the grenade launcher

[waxen sonnet]

No, that's Heather Ward.

[waxen sonnet]

https://thedivision.fandom.com/wiki/Heather_Ward

[raw yew]

Nah been trying to figure out what builds to use / organize my character

Missed the last 2 seasons cause the plot was boring

[waxen sonnet]

Ah well that Recuriter final mission Involves Birdie if you want to meet her Character, she's heavily Involved with the mission.

[raw yew]

Cool I’ll give it a look

Wish they included all the cutscenes with the manhunt missions

I miss when the lore was all subjective and left to interpretation lol I’m gonna have to read the books

[waxen sonnet]

You can grab those on YouTube if you want.

[raw yew]

Speaking of lore.. after completing the United Nations mission and killing the LMB commander and hornet is there anything in the world tiers of division 1 relevant to the story or is it just side missions? There was a zone I needed to be over level 30 to access

[waxen sonnet]

Afraid I cant help on that one. Only played TD2.

[stray crystal]

||I just skimmed through the first chapter of Recruited. It starts with a flashback to an event that took place after the Green Poison hit, from the description in the book it's January/February, there's still snow, but spring is closing in weather wise.
Right after there's the following (ambiguous) line: "Almost a year. It had been more than a year since that day at the recruitment office."
Which would put the events of Recruited after the events of TD2+WONY, because in-game we haven't passed the 1 year mark yet I'm pretty sure.||

[waxen sonnet]

I do hope we see Maira and the other characters from the series come in, she was name dropped in the end cutscene of the Recruiter manhunt so there's hope.

[sick lantern]

that’s what I said bruv

Heather Ward, Caleb Dunne and Brian Johnson are those three agents from Extremis Malis and the trailer

[sick lantern]

indubitably but also the in game timeline now contradicts that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

this is why I get so annoyed besides people chatting mad bollocks because it’s like whoever is writing for the game just isn’t paying attention or trying too hard to maintain continuity
considering they’re part of a skeleton crew they probably aren’t

[sick lantern]

there’s generally more worldbuilding and etc everywhere, I recommend going through the map and getting all the collectibles and side missions done
for example you know Acosta’s Go Bag exotic in div 2? Eva Acosta is a character from div 1 collectibles

and ofc there’s Underground, Survival, WSP and Incursions to be done plus a brief excursion to DZ north for some more worldbuilding

few major story beats but there’s interesting stuff, Rogue agent collectibles in UG (generally the UG phone calls are really interesting and unique, not so much the Urbex photos lol), Aaron Keener phone calls in WSP,

[raw yew]

So as far as side quests go there’s not really a continuation to the story via missions?

I’m definitely going to collect all the collectibles as I like the calendar feature of division 1

[sick lantern]

I would say the Keener phone calls in WSP are the closest thing

[raw yew]

Okay

Did they ever connect Amherst and keener I forget

[sick lantern]

have you done Unknown Signal? once you’ve done General Assembly it should be on your map

[raw yew]

There was an echo of him taking over but I can’t figure if Amherst and him had a relationship

Or if he just picked up amhersts research

[sick lantern]

no, Amherst was independent
Keener just took his research and gear

[raw yew]

Okay

[waxen sonnet]

Keener basically learns Amherst is behind green poison faster than the SHD, so by the time you raid Amherst apartment, Keener has already stolen all the research and equipment. Keener doesn't have any pre-outbreak connections to Amherst however and instead uses Tcherneko (I can recall spelling) for his eclipse version of the virus

[karmic blade]

You’re off by a letter it’s spelled Tchernenko 😄

[waxen sonnet]

Thank you buttery! I was trying to spell it as it sounded.

[stray crystal]

Does McAnus count as SHD? 'technically' that is? Because then he knew

[waxen sonnet]

McManus seems to be more on his own Agenda, he seems to stay as head of Homeland Security as apposed to taking control of the SHD At the start of its Activation so I honestly dont know.

[stray crystal]

It was also a lot of technicalities to draw out that thought, because he's Director of Homeland Security, SHD is under that, but not really, completely - because of the autonomy.
And I also wonder if he was just a dickhead in that one descent comm about Amherst or if he genuinely knew and let him cook up the poison.

[waxen sonnet]

I genuinely think he's Just Incompetent and counters anyone with aggression, but at the same time, I agree with you that it wouldn't surprise me given his closeness to Nat (who was also building up masses of equipment like she knew it was coming) that one of them knew and told the other

[sick lantern]

broken dawn would say he very much let him

[tulip shale]

Would it be a wild guess if the BT bunker was in Brooklyn ? As the future dlc will be there...
Just wondering

[waxen sonnet]

Didn't Birdie mention something about constantly pumping out ground water to prevent flooding or something so I'm thinking somewhere more rural?

[static crypt]

Upstate NY is very rural. Would also make sense as we know BT has a presence there

[waxen sonnet]

Good point Echo I'd never thought of things that way but that seems a really good idea.

[surreal hearth]

Sooo the hunters are indeed agents like us but were handpicked specifically for the hunter programs before the black tusk arrival

[glad spruce]

And from our various encounters with them, they're psychopaths. Or in the case of The Recruiter, they have superiority complex.

[stray crystal]

Which is somewhat ironic considering they're a "last resort" kinda thing to the SHD Agents going that route

[waxen sonnet]

I would describe Johnson as manipulated by his own diehard rulebook nature, a lot of agents, even Kelso for example, have ego's bordering on superiority complex's.

But just from there actions you're right, pretty psychopathic to brutally silently murder fellow agents with axe's, to take trophy's and even in cases like Agent Edward's torture for hours.

Which is one thing I don't get with the Hunters, these guys brutally execute loyalist agents, Torture them in brutal agonising way's like Poor Agent Edwards while seemingly barely targeting rogues, even before they allied themselves with the BTSU, and they still think they're on mission? Its just as bad as rogues imo.

[gaunt ice]

I think that hunters like Johnson were gaslit into doing the “right” thing while others are straight up psychopathic murderers that work under McDonalds

[waxen sonnet]

You're pretty much spot on what I was trying to (badly) word chairs yeah.

[tulip shale]

We don't really know if Edwards was killed by the hunter, he was just there when we arrived. And he didn't killed us when he could have.

[surreal hearth]

I made it clear that McManus is a power tripper he does whatever it takes to keep the US safe from hostile power but he’s been losing his grip because his ego is getting most of his hunter agents killed and his constant conspiracy against nat is making him real dangerous and edgy asf

[waxen sonnet]

A Valid point, but we've never seen any of the other factions torture or display a body like that, and the fact is he (the hunter) seems to have waited for another agent to respond to a distress call he surely must know was placed, he left him kinda like a calling card and waited really to sortta toy with you "I did this to edwards and could have done it to you"

[surreal hearth]

Kelso needed to disappear herself not because of finding her folks but because they’re is something in New York that’s been really hiding from the SHD for years

[waxen sonnet]

Im thinking its something that'll protect ISAC from being countermeasured, perhaps some sort of highly advanced anti-ecm suite or special servers etc

[surreal hearth]

ISAC almost got hacked twice now by black tusk

[waxen sonnet]

Yep, three if you count the books.

[surreal hearth]

Also, one of the reason of Natalia is engaged in so much propaganda warfare is because she stole the bioreactor from us and was using it as some “asset bargaining chip” to convince people to betray the division and join the black tusk as long as that bioreactor is in her possession she’ll continue to commit her propaganda more often from now on

Along with her secondary asset of true sons at her side

[waxen sonnet]

Eh, its more that the bioreactor can develop the anti-virals to protect against greenpoision, thats a massive power to have, being able to protect loyalists to her from such a devistating virus, and that in itself is a huge propaganda win

[surreal hearth]

She might have used it when we attacked the zoo only to find out that the black tusk used it as a massive field hospital

Making us look real bad

Unfortunately her constant propaganda did costed her one particular asset and that was biridie who suddenly just switched side and pretty much exposed everything to us

[waxen sonnet]

who also blew Cal's favourite hunter to crap so aint exactly gonna get her many brownie points with him.

[stray crystal]

The books are close to half a year after the in-game events, so they're difficult to account for.

Recruited is at the very least - I take the two others happen after

[waxen sonnet]

Yep.

[cold bramble]

dont the hyenas or true sons hang up JTF

whats to say they dont do it aswell

[cold bramble]

also that one side mission in the little relief camp where we gotta scan the dead bodies the hyenas hung up

[cursive tapir]

Underground nuclear fallout shelter/corn bunker, calling it now

[cursive tapir]

I’m pretty sure there’s a line in Hunted which says it’s been two years, which made me do a crazy double take

I suppose it’s not crazy considering there’s been like 8 years of game content since the Division 1’s release, though

[stray crystal]

The only reason I'm pointing it out is, because canonically in-game in Div2, we haven't reached the 1 year mark of the Green Poison outbreak. While the books were approved by MSV / Ubisoft writers for The Division franchise, they're in the future - and might never have an impact.

[sick lantern]

remember stuff from Recruited was getting mentioned tho?

the whole dirty bomb fake out with Stovepipe

[surreal hearth]

Funny thing is that we still have the key and it’s shaeffer

Manny and his doctors need to properly take super care of him cuss he’s really important

If nat does have a serious suped up bunkers then the entry requires live biometric identification like serious metal gear ID shit we are dealing with

[tulip shale]

Schaeffer's credentials shouldn't be valid anymore

[sick lantern]

one would hope

there was that one comm where natalya was talking about schaeffer in the white house and how they didnt know if he was a traitor or not

i sincerely hope his purpose when he wakes up isn't just to be a key

[stray crystal]

He'll change name to Yasuo, because he hasaki

[waxen sonnet]

But I wonder if Birdie or Vik can put him back on, clearly both had access to elements of the electrical and digital sections of Black tusk, birdie especially

[raw yew]

Sad part about his death is he asked for help knowing something was wrong 🥲

[raw yew]

What’s the source on this?

[waxen sonnet]

The last manhunt.

[raw yew]

Oh is it through the comms or just dialogue when u finish the different objectives

[waxen sonnet]

You still not got around to playing it?

[raw yew]

He was shocked to death much like your agent was when you encounter the hunter apart from being tortured as far as I recall

[raw yew]

Well I’m between gta and division but I just did the incursion yesterday. If it’s the dialogue after clearing objectives like the manhunt progress of control points etc I can’t listen to it unless someone did a run through of it and put it on YouTube. But the comms is what I can access which is why I’m asking if that’s where they mentioned it

[raw yew]

The strange thing is I believe the hunter to be one of the stalker hunters because Edwards found that area to be on the fritz which I take it was emanating from the hunters watch / skills

So he was there before the distress call and before Edwards from what I think

[waxen sonnet]

You'll want to do that manhunt, Parunox's right and a lot about the Hunters is revealed as that final plot twist, along with learning more about Nat's seeming Headquarterrs.

[raw yew]

The manhunt for Lewis was kind of confusing cause they kept referencing “Edwards” … a hunter… and your agent killing some BTSU/true sons operative

But idk if there’s any connection between that hunter and the Edwards they talk about

[waxen sonnet]

You mean the one at the powerplant?

[raw yew]

Yea there was some true sons or black tusk operative mad at the agent for killing someone. It was dialogue from bank headquarters

[sick lantern]

what?
are you talking about Bonney?

[sick lantern]

i don’t remember any Edwards being mentioned in the cpt Lewis manhunt

Bonney was the important BTSU member killed at bank headquarters who was being screened for Hunter recruitment… don’t think Lewis had a problem with that lol

[gaunt ice]

He was killed at jefferson tho?

[sick lantern]

oh yea not a bank i just remember it having a vault and shit idk

[wicked gorge]

Would you rather fight a hunter with their hatchet or face a hunter with a katana

[sick lantern]

with a katana because they presumably have no sword skills, it’s heavier and more unwieldy, harder to conceal…

[wicked gorge]

Next thing you know the hunter is a master of ninjitsu and sword fighting

[rare herald]

AGENTS, HEAR ME OUT!
I would love nothing more than to have The Division make a game like this, just read the idea please lol.

Basically my idea here is like Division 1 survival mode on steroids.

The virus has mutated and The Division has been overrun by Rioters, Cleaners, Hunters, and some infected...?
The only thing left is the base of operations.
Once you leave the safe area its every agent for themselves.
Find food, water, clothing, anything to stay warm, stay alive and survive. If you die, you lose it all.

Add melee mechanic and weapons so that you truly can work from the ground up, there can still be a "story mode" but the story inside the active map. Which would make it not only interactive cuz players would have to go to these specific spots to progress. BUT they could also team up for the mission through voip, or fight it out so they do the mission with their newly acquired loot.

Storage for your high value items can be stored at the base of operations, or maybe there is some sort of base you can make for yourself outside the base of operations?

But give it possibly more of a survival, Like the world is literally standing on its last legs, our only job as the last division agents is to survive, choose to fight along side our fellow agents, or dont, and try to take back the city that was once ours.

I dont know if you guys would do anything in that realm, but I think there is a huge place for a game like that and I think you guys were way before your time with games like Vigor and Division.

Who knows, could be the next best thing.
lmk what you guys think
-Agent gm1ddy out
est. 2016

[wicked gorge]

Isn’t this just Heartleand tho? I haven’t been keeping up with development, but this sounds close to what I remember

[rare herald]

I mean personally I havent looked a whole lot into heartland, but if thats the case its gona be my new favorite game lmao

[wicked gorge]

It sounds similar cause the virus in Heartland is a mutated strain of green poison

And them making more like survival and adding melee weapons

[raw yew]

Not the mission itself but the manhunt for one of the secondary targets.

[sick lantern]

none of them are called Edwards

or Edward

iirc you’re thinking of “Dusk” Edwards who’s a rogue agent from the Schaffer? manhunt way back when

who got mentioned a few times and made important posthumously

[raw yew]

Yes but that’s cause your agent killed them . Which we’ve never killed anyone named Edward or Edwards as far as I know but I missed manhunts 1-3

The other connection is the mention of a hunter being present but the hunter there was a hunter in the season Schaffer was a target who followed you around and was stalking Schaffer more than the agent. Anyways the connection between the hunter who killed agent Edwards and spared the Agent protagonist remains in play … either them having a future use for the agent or to not engage

Mind you the hunter that killed agent Edwards I’ve mentioned was previously already there but this is just my speculation. Anyways I’m under the impression that side mission is connected after you take down ridgeway … you encounter mentions of the BTSU but they’re meant to be anonymous till the invasion

So my thoughts when we first encountered that season was that they confused the protagonist agent for killing Agent Edwards when he just stumbled upon the body. Also I don’t think Dusk and Edward were the same person rather they were affiliated. I could certainly be wrong tho

The problem with that seasons story was all the twists it had. Faye, Schaffer, Lewis… Anderson, bunch of random true sons

[sick lantern]

Linette “Dusk” Edwards died in season 3, she was one of the sub targets under Schaeffer (that is to say, the player did kill someone named Edwards). The Hunter present in the Schaffer manhunt was “Deceit” iirc regardless you kill him on Coney Island

and he wasn’t “stalking” Schaeffer he was stalking the rogue agents working for Schaeffer but basically was following Schaffer’s orders to an extent

[raw yew]

No, he was stalking Schaffer. Season 10 manhunt revealed that Sokolova was less trusting of Schaffer prior to his encounter with the Agent because of Faye Lau being recruited and also due to the failures of his squads. He got less and less responsibility over time and eventually got sidelined once Anderson came into play. This is mostly because the BTSU were pretty much all dead except for new recruits which they were pushing for hard. You can hear it in the comms, Schaffer was less in the loop … part of the reason I think Lau and Schaffer moved on with their plan when they did is because both of their covers were about to be blown or if one got blown the other would soon follow afterwards

[sick lantern]

fair enough i’m just going on what i remember from the manhunt itself

[raw yew]

Plus when she discovered where he was “captured” she didn’t have intentions to rescue him. But to assassinate him because he knew too much or otherwise in my view outlived his usefulness

[sick lantern]

he was also there hunting each rogue agent when you killed them

[raw yew]

Mind you she wasn’t the one he was taking orders from … there was someone in the base game echoes referred to as Black Tusk Commanding Officer / Black Tusk CEO

Sokolova is in the base game as well because she’s who I think Ellis spoke to over the phone

But they’ve been silent ever since they’ve been pushing Sokolova so hard

[sick lantern]

that guy who showed up in one ECHO and never again lol

[raw yew]

well he appears over the dialogue in missions not him talking or anything but Schaffer talking to him. He also is the one who debriefs Ellis to put a leash on the Division

But like I said they needed a face and just pushed Sokolova

[raw yew]

Yea Faye had concerns as to the intentions of the Hunter and urged Schaffer to move forward because it seemed he was getting too close or was going to do something to Schaffer … Schaffer though he wasn’t paranoid speculated the hunter was going to kill him as far as I recall … mostly because Sokolova didn’t want Schaffer near McMannus and when he pushed on who McMannus was working with… it kind of revealed it was the hunter … this is where the whole confirmation that hunters are not Random’s kind of originated from within the context of the game (outstanding any additional universe sources like books)

If you overlook Bonny of course cause to me personally that dude is just some random they kept talking about and has no relevance lol

[sick lantern]

besides obviously the recently released Hunted, none of the books have anything to do with the Hunters

[raw yew]

Well I just said that because I haven’t read them

[sick lantern]

Most people who bring them up haven’t read them.

[pine wyvern]

Was hunted a good book?

[waxen sonnet]

Very good.

Wraps up things perfectly.

And makes hunters seem terrifying better than the games have portrayed

[sudden mortar]

Idk if this always was a thing, but I was messing around in the Hornet manhunt mission and after killing the named enemies, they dropped coms from another target from that manhunt. For example: I killed the named outcast at Tidal Basin and he dropped a coms from the "Titan" rogue agent from the Hornet manhunt.

[ashen jungle]

Yep, was added this Season. You re-do a Manhunt and a Named Enemy from that Manhunt gives you a comm you're missing.

[glad spruce]

In that case, I should get to doing the previous manhunts since I missed out some audio logs.

[loud pilot]

If the agent Johnson was the recruiter who are the 2 other agents on the cover of the game

[urban musk]

The recruited.

[wicked gorge]

I think there MIA

[vale oak]

wasn't there an npc agent you worked with in the intro for td2

if so what happened to them

[raw yew]

Spoilers 😭

[raw yew]

You talking about Agent Brooks?

[vale oak]

idk their name since I haven't seen the intro in a while

[raw yew]

They’re the agent at the sinkhole I think it’s called where you help secure a shd cache and capture a cp

[static crypt]

she's the agent you work with during the Pentagon missions

[loud pilot]

Bro I don’t know I only play the game and watch the promo material

[raw yew]

I meant that’s a major spoiler you should conceal it by putting || on both sides of the text

[loud pilot]

Oh ok

[sick lantern]

Caleb Dunne and Heather Ward, who appear in Extremis Malis and the E3 trailer

[sick lantern]

Agent Sanders
shows up at the Pentagon and in the pre rendered cutscene after the WH attack, so it’s debatable if that’s really her or if she’s just being used as a stand in for the player

[loud pilot]

Ok

[waxen sonnet]

Agent Sanders yeah, also appeared back in season 11 after the white house attack, lady with the NPS Hat, the other bloke from the tutorial missions a named agent too but i forget his name

[urban musk]

It's Agent "De La Cruz."

put some respect on his name, he survived the Base Game Prologue mission and survived the eclipse virus during the WONY Prologue mission!

[waxen sonnet]

Thats the one! Thanks Agent Martin

[undone verge]

Dead I'd imagine

[ashen jungle]

She's actually at the Pentagon/DARPA with you, and yes there was a heck of a long gap between those two events.

[wicked gorge]

Idk if anyone else would like this, but id would like Ubisoft to go back and tinker with the few echos that had Johnson in them and change them to deceased or division agent formerly, hunter etc, I think it’s just a cool detail

[sick lantern]

i don’t think he was actually in any

those three agents have i think only one or two appearances from the base game in an echo and or phone call

and iirc only two of the agents even are there it might’ve just been dunne and ward

[wicked gorge]

There’s one next to the capital

I think there’s another one besides that one but I don’t remember

[sick lantern]

Caleb Dunne is in one ECHO

Johnson and Ward aren’t

[radiant citrus]

Ok, so this could just be me, but is it just me or are sokolova and McManus basically just toying with us at this point? I mean, I've kinda been wondering this since the first time I did tidal basin and schaffer straight up says "No, wyvern, don't fire missiles at the white house that's insane." And ever since then, they've legit raided the white house like it's their job, stole like 90 percent of the characters at this point and then sorta just... Let them go, in some kind of rube Goldberg-esque plan with the recruiter and the shd server, last season established that BT has a countermeasure to just shut off the network, but they don't use it, because... Reasons, and that's without mentioning the hunters, along with the fact that McManus legit has access to not just isac, but Anna and Diamond too all in one watch, and still supposedly can't stop a squad of like, 1-4 agents. So... TL;DR, pretty sure if BT and McManus wanted us dead we would be by now.

[sick lantern]

it's like star wars rebels, the bad guys keep losing, but cus the game needs to keep going they just say "all according to plan"

[radiant citrus]

Understandable. Or it's just a Dr doofenshmirtz type situation, where they think their plan is so ingenious, they kinda just forget about the self destruct button.

[cyan haven]

Regarding the firing missiles at the White House, I think it’s because the White House is the symbol of the presidency, so blowing it up would be bad optics, because McManus claiming the presidency after blowing it up would make him look like an invader, as opposed to them wanting Manny to surrender the White House peacefully as to show that the JTF supports the transition of power

[radiant citrus]

Makes sense, yeah. But the fact is that most people kinda know about his involvement with both the hunters and with them being part of homeland, so I'm not sure if anyone would be likely to follow him the way he's going anyway.

[wicked gorge]

Agent Perry the platypus is our best op, he’ll take out McManus

[radiant citrus]

Of course!

[raw yew]

At this point I don’t even think skills are useful considering the nemesis (who Wally alludes the NSA lab is related to black tusk somehow and restrictive to shd tech) and the hunters just straight up hack or make deployable skills irrelevant. I’d like to see them create a directive where you can’t use either of your shd skills just to see what this shd network blackout

Not to mention black tusk and cleaners just seem to have way better skills in terms of drones, the war hounds, mini tanks etc

Our bombardier drone doesn’t even do jack to normal enemies on regular difficulty

[civic marsh]

Do we have even the slightest idea where we could beginn looking for the 26. Hunter?

[radiant citrus]

True, but from a gameplay and lore standpoint, our tech isn't just our skills or drones, it's the contact lenses, it's our hud, our AR overlay, think back to the recruiter's manhunt, if they turn off the network or we lost connection to the SHD server, we lost legit, every advantage, aside from our division training.

BT and the hunters have every advantage otherwise, and their training is supposed to be, gameplay aside, more than ours, especially given that the recruitment and training process of hunters is pretty unknown, and BT still have their tech that doesn't piggyback off of Diamond and the network, agents are only ever trained with their tech accessable, so to just have it essentially locked off is bound to be pretty jarring

[raw yew]

I find that to be pretty short coming of the agents abilities really considering ISAC and shd tech exist for the purpose of aiding the agent when the odds are 100 to 1. I think they are indeed capable and receive more training equivalent to higher op forces such as rangers, special forces etc. we see most agents are civilians but a lot of them are first responders or former military.

The only advantage I’d say black tusk have beside their tech is they have the numbers and desire to overthrow… wyvern, Sokolova etc

Mind you they accept missions most JTF would run from

[radiant citrus]

True, but I mean more in the case of, from a lore standpoint, we've got the JTF for allies, and no discredit to the JTF, but they pretty much abandoned the first wave to their fates back in NY. By comparison, BT have the hunters, and now the true sons, who are basically just deranged JTF who decided "nah we're gonna do our own thing." I admit that many agents do indeed have prior combat experience in their own right though and that was an oversight on my part.

No hate on the true sons of course, but that's the best sum up I could think of off the top of my head.

And I don't mean that we're necessarily dependent upon the tech exactly, but the fact is, it's as you say, shd tech is essentially a lifeline, which is meant to be used in dire circumstances to turn the odds in our favour, but having that option is bound to make some agents at the very least, careless, the same is likely true of BT in that regard though.

[stray crystal]

Oh no no. Hunters have the BT if anything.

[radiant citrus]

True, hunters do have significantly less numbers given their... "Selective" recruitment process.

[stray crystal]

It was more, if we're talking lorewise, McManus gives a Hunter to Sokolova. She has no command at all and is essentially being played by McManus - and has been from the get go

[radiant citrus]

Ahh ok, yeah, though the same can be said in general really, McManus has kinda been playing everyone from the start, especially given he's kinda the reason that rogues can even use shd tech.

[stray crystal]

Oh yeah, for sure, I'm interested in where this whole thing goes. I'm still 100% convinced the reason we aren't getting descent comms is due to us waiting for lore from the Vanguard Manhunt rather than a technical bug.

It was just the "BT have the hunters" that irked me ^^

[stray crystal]

Can't believed I missed this golden comment

[radiant citrus]

Yeah, it's likely due to manhunt delays, if nothing else it is rather odd that the global event ends tomorrow and yet we still have another week before we get the next bit of the manhunt

[raw yew]

One thing I will say is the JTF in DC from the White House who remained and didn’t trade sides seem to be some of the most dedicated and loyal members of the faction. The only other ones I can speak of that share similar traits are the ones under Benitez’s command in Division 1… but they seem to have the mentality of if it will fall leave it which in all honesty is not the worst idea. The problem with them is they will leave other people behind, seems the Division are the only ones who hold them accountable unless a pre outbreak leader is there

DC JTF seem to accept any mission regardless of risk, hell even the settlement militias who run to the fight with melee weapons

This is very true when you apply it to actual players who try to rely on skill builds for the most difficult content. In reality it’s likely that your shd tech operates on battery and has limited ammo. I doubt they carry more than a certain amount of shd deployable skills such as seeker mines but this is why I preferred division 1’s skill tree, it’s based on the power of the agent and not on tiers or cores that are stacked. With each wing you had to prioritize certain skills. You still have to do this with specializations but let’s be honest some skill builds are overpowered and melt dps builds such as EP fire (AOE … not damage)

[raw yew]

Okay so this isn’t just me… I played twice on 2 characters and didn’t get any this week

[radiant citrus]

True, and it's not necessarily a bad mentality to have, and in some cases it's definitely preferable to retreat to live to fight another day, but in terms of skills and skill builds, it's definitely a matter of the agent in question, for example, the recruiter's manhunt with a skill build is likely to be an absolute hellscape, especially given the actual fight itself, some agents find it easy, some find it difficult, same can be applied in lore or universe circumstances.

Far as div 1 vs div 2 a lot of people definitely preferred signature cores/signature skills as opposed to signature weapons, but I think part of that is also likely because of the difference in implementation and the fact that ubi were going to do an overhaul on signature weapons at one point but that idea was scrapped for some reason or another.

[stray crystal]

Oh yeah nah, it's slated to be fixed for TU20.2 (next patch, and has been "fix ready" status for a while now + it was tagged as TU20.2 already before TU20.1)

[raw yew]

Have you seen anything about the invasion weekly project related to that as well?

I really hope they go through with it

[stray crystal]

I think that one specifically is poorly formulated.
AFAIK the invaded missions gives more loot on first clear and the weekly project can have invaded missions/strongholds in them (iirc last week was like that)

[raw yew]

Oh not the weekly project; there’s supposed to be a new project for completing the weekly invasion

WEEKLY PROJECTS
Invasion Project

Conditions: To neutralize named enemies, faction activities, faction bounties, complete Invaded Missions on certain difficulties and complete invaded Strongholds on certain difficulties.

Rewards:

5 x SHD Calibration
Heroic Faction Bounty
2x Equipment Item
Crafting Blueprints
5 x Specialization Points
XP (Equivalent to one level up)
Heroic Bounty (All Factions)
1 x Named Item Cache
1 x Weapon Crafting Cache
3 x Exotic Component
WEEKLY LEGENDARY MISSION

[stray crystal]

Yes, but that's what I think is poorly formulated, because on this page they mention changes to "the following projects" ... "Weekly Projects, including Invasion and Weekly Legendary Mission" - which would mean the current weekly project is "Invasion".
And in the vanguard patch notes there's no mention of the "regular" weekly project.
However the current weekly project in South NYC (Just called Weekly Project) gives those exact rewards. Last week the "Weekly Project" had invaded missions

[raw yew]

ah thats a shame cause theres not much incentive to do the invaded missions it seems

[stray crystal]

Last week had invaded missions as a requirement + they give extra loot + xp. I usually run them. Tidal Basin I gotta be in the right mood for

[sick lantern]

at this point the brick might as well be a WW2 radio antennae backpack thingy since all the shd tech supposedly needs a network connection to run (despite still working in the DZ, Survival and at the start of 2, when the network is down/inaccessible)

[rare herald]

We need to just start filling up Div 1 servers again. The first one was the best one 🥲

[radiant citrus]

Fair point, though in terms of the DZ and the network being down, isac even says it himself, he can still manage to establish a proximity coverage connection to the network so you can use your overlay, but the fact is that, Isac can't actually designate anyone as rogue properly in the dark zone, nor can he warn you what's coming or anything. It's like... It's like a phone's signal. Yeah, you can maybe manage like, one emergency call or something, but otherwise, functionality is pretty limited.

The brick itself though is more like a battery, a power source for your overlay and the tech, aside from the actual batteries used by the assault turret and drone, it's more like a receiver than a proper radio.

[fallow linden]

Instead of this buff reading "Donating enough resources to the control points activates better detection of hostiles on a 20 m radius, for 10 min" what if it said "By contributing sufficient resources to control points, activates better detection of hostiles on a 20m radius and also double the amount of materials you collect from various sources, for 10 min." What's your thoughts on this?

[stray crystal]

#ask-td2-community material

[raw yew]

Unless what you mean is they labeled it wrong and it’s just the weekly project

lol sorry for the delayed response I was in the train

[stray crystal]

I think it is poorly formulated. I don't recall the weekly project having invaded missions/strongholds before resolve + they give more loot and xp now

[raw yew]

It’s a transponder, it’s meant to send and receive signals. It’s like a router for your shd tech except it connects to the satellite. I don’t think the brick connects to the nodes but to the satellite which is connected to nodes. The reason being the progression of how u restore the network. First satellite uplink then the primary node

[raw yew]

I like it. In my first run through story mode where you had to do all the safe zone projects I didn’t like that you couldn’t escort the green resource convoys… which in endgame should be a ton of xp if you’re going to be intercepted. Like have to fight waves of enemies each block but you get like 5 shd levels or something

There has to be a reason to capture the control points otherwise it’s a waste of time besides farming

It’s kind of like protect the VIP

[radiant citrus]

Yeah, you're right I just couldn't think of the word or how to explain it properly 😅

[wicked gorge]

McManus: A platypus?Puts hat on PERRY THE PLATYPUS

[fallow linden]

The s can be used on material when describing something that has various types.

[stray crystal]

He needs to go through many more iterations
https://youtu.be/nPz-OXEVafM?feature=shared

You beat me? You've only been here for like 15 seconds and I was monologueing for half of that. What kind of a SHD Agent are you? A Platypus SHD Agent?Perry the Platypus SHD Agent? PERRY THE PLATYPUS

[stray crystal]

Your question is about a game mechanic, so it is #ask-td2-community material - not #division-universe material (this is a lore related channel)

[fallow linden]

Just trying to have a discussion you were the one trying to troll! I see plenty off topics in this channel about game mechanics but yet you didn’t point them out. You were wrong have a great day!

[stray crystal]

Excuse me what? I wasn't trying to troll at all - I could've used more words in my first message, but you're gonna have more luck discussing a game mechanic like the buff you mentioned in #ask-td2-community
The lore nerds hang out up here.

[stray crystal]

You're the one thinking my message has anything to do with the plural of material

[fallow linden]

all good i thought your initial comment was trying to troll have a good one!

[wicked gorge]

I was thinking of that but I didn’t feel like typing it out, imagine Perry is the last hunter we face

[stray crystal]

||I love how after clearing D-Railed in Two Bridges, the only "lore" you get is Manny saying "Kelso was definitely up to something" ||

[azure stone]

Really no paper message like in the first one

[azure stone]

It seems lazy this season idk why

[stray crystal]

||I won't put too much in here, but this conversation is interesting if you read the latest intel from Kelso. 'We just need the key.'||

[late void]

They did say they'd been putting all their time and resources into project resolve and so there would be less new content than usual.

[stray crystal]

sucks having to wait 4 weeks for intel, but that how it be

[wicked gorge]

Is it in the lore that the rikers are a massive pain in the ass

[stray crystal]

Considering I had a female riker earlier yelling "I'm gonna shoot you now" at me, that seems quite spot on

[glad spruce]

||I'm interested in the ''key'' that Kelso mentions in her second note. Cuz it sounds like our ace against Black Tusk and the Hunters||

[stray crystal]

||My best guess is that it has something to do with the backdoor into all 3 systems (ISAC, ANNA, DIAMOND) that exists on every Smartwatch. The one Theo somewhat found when he recovered ANNA - and the one McManus is at fault for implementing, because he wanted access to all 3, which we learned via Descent comms was made possible by creating said backdoor by Ortiz||

[raw yew]

The footage of Baret

Also riker lore in div 2 doesn’t make sense to me

They hate cops in div 1, align with cop in div 2, cop has beef with father, starts the riots in rikers, rikers like this one cop, also tolerate rogue agents aligned with cop

[ashen jungle]

If you mean Dragov, IIRC he's responsible for them getting out, so it's not really a shock that they align with him.

[gaunt ice]

They’re kinda like that one mosquito in your room that you can just never quite catch

Like its there and its a minor nuisance most of the time

You just cant get rid of it

[stray crystal]

"After the outbreak of the Green Poison, the inmates at Rikers Island started a large riot. James Dragov, an agent of the Strategic Homeland Division and former police officer, turned on the warden during the riot, and became a rogue agent. Dragov then threw the guard keys to Larae Barrett's cell, while Duchess, who was three cells away from Barrett, witnessed the incident."
Would've put it in a block, but don't have the character on my phone keyboard /sad

[raw yew]

I like fighting the rikers the most simply because they’re the most satisfying and don’t spam you with drones and mechs

But also because they’re the worst of all the factions

[ashen jungle]

I am actually aware of what happened, but sometimes I have to play dumb on here or people take it as an attack.

[raw yew]

Lore nerds be like that

[stray crystal]

That's fair, I'm just supporting your statement.

[ashen jungle]

I'm sure with some of them it's just the pfp/latter half of the name, buuuuuuut can't accuse without evidence so whatevs.

[raw yew]

Also the baret mission in div 1 imo is by far the hardest because of the riker tanks if that answers ur question

I was punished by that mission until I realized you can run them around lol

[stray crystal]

I mean, true. You just said iirc, so I wanted to support with da lore (well wiki) :3

[raw yew]

But the visuals of what they do to people is what makes them the worst

[ashen jungle]

I had to play that literally, and not exaggerating here, 104 times to get the Exotic.

[raw yew]

Heroic?

I’ve never tried heroic in div 1

Not gonna lie cleaners and rikers are harder to fight in div 1

[stray crystal]

I now see why you chose to become an AI

[ashen jungle]

I can quote that weirdly out of nowhere rant of hers word for word to this day.
god that mission was annoying.

[raw yew]

That woman needed to go for her ranting

[ashen jungle]

And yet, Liberty Island is still worse.

It's actually impressive.

[raw yew]

I wish we got more of Charles Bliss. He was a nice ranter

[raw yew]

The end dialogue for keener doesn’t make sense to me, I wish they’d follow up on why he thought the world needed a reset

[ashen jungle]

Oh I can tell you that.
because Thanos was a popular thing when that came out.

I am convinced that is the reason, because it is 100% out of character.

[raw yew]

Yes I played div 1 after div 2 and the keener lore doesn’t make sense

Amherst had a reason per say - biologically speaking and his was kind of interesting as he didn’t seem to do it maliciously or have hatred towards any one person

Keener on the other hand well, they never specified who his and Kajika target was in Haven, I’m guessing Benitez

But Keener was unbearable and the whole New York dlc feels lazy

Cause the whole Hornet - Keeners legacy thing… is it to destroy the world?

[ashen jungle]

Don't forget, it's either confirmed or heavily implied that Amherst wasn't actually really behind it anymore, so a lot of div1 is kinda redundant now.

[raw yew]

Cause Hornet was awful to fight with outcast rushers spamming you

I wouldn’t be surprised if they close the room you come in from

[raw yew]

😓 the story was so good tho

[ashen jungle]

It being one crazy guy who thought there needed to be population control (Amherst) was a good story, it's not something you can fight against as he's dead now.
It's a good setting for a post-apocalypse. I never like when there's a specific person you can go after to get some kind of symbolic revenge in those kind of stories.

[stray crystal]

It's heavily implied Amherst was - at the very least - ignored by the NSA, but we're yet to find out if McManus is just a giant a-hole and disregarded Amherst because of that or if he had behind the scenes plans.

With regards to Keener, looking back at the final segment of Liberty Island, do we know forsure what he was targeting with the Eclipse missile? As it looks long range to me.

||Recent comms revealed in Vanguard mentions Keener knew Nat and Cal - maybe he was actually targeting them? "We have no idea what is coming." - says Keener.||

[raw yew]

Are your suggesting the NSA ignored Amhersts search history

[raw yew]

Manhattan

Why can’t I reply to the spoiler

[raw yew]

I think he knew because Parnell suggested there was institutional corruption all the way to the top

Maybe ANNA was his way of not being hacked by hunters

[ashen jungle]

I do love Parnell pretending that there being institutional corruption (which, no duh) somehow means it's okay to murder civilians with tech and chemical weapons.

[raw yew]

I mean it doesn’t work for us but he certainly had to have use for a more sophisticated system than ISAC

[raw yew]

I think Keener promised him something or that the revelation of his mission being a pawn made him realize that he was on the wrong side. No one really saw Parnell as a threat but he was darn good with tech, I think Keener promised to tell him more about said corruption or to expose them

[stray crystal]

||Keener knew Cal(vin McManus) and Nat(alya Sokolova) according to the latest comms in Vanguard. He also is very cryptic talking to us. Why did the Black Tusk come for him? Who is listening in on our comms? The missile is headed for "Manhattan" but could just aswell be ICBM for bum-fuck nowhere, the location of Calvin's bunker. Or Natalya's||

[raw yew]

I’ll get back to you later on that I’ll play through two bridges

[stray crystal]

Yeah, for sure, listen through the comms we were given today.

[raw yew]

New York missions are unbearable to say the least idk why they made them like that

[ashen jungle]

I mean sure all that, but he did willingly murder innocent people and was seemingly 100% okay with murdering most of a city.

Dude was like "war crimes? Yum".

[raw yew]

Can we not mute Conley

Kajika is like the most reasonable one

[stray crystal]

I'm not calling him a good guy in any sense, but I'm not sure it's as much a Thanos snap as we used to think. But only time will tell

[ashen jungle]

That was about Theo not Keener.

[raw yew]

@stray crystal do u watch the walking dead

||perhaps keener and black tusk can be applied to the civic republic military who destroy settlements for reduce human population or burden on their resources because they’re not able to survive without help||

[stray crystal]

Ah, fair. Theo, atleast to me, seemed rather impressionable. Keener took a Guardian role, Theo followed along.

[raw yew]

Wasn’t Theo in the ravels of uncovering certain truths about his father or something

[stray crystal]

There's one early comm from Descent where McManus tells the NSA Tech to disregard Amherst or whatever.

[raw yew]

So who the heck is Ortiz

[stray crystal]

Yeah, I believe so. Wasn't he hurting? So even more impressionable and Keener was a "caring guy", so Theo started to roll with him.

[stray crystal]

Company headed by Claire and Alexander Ortiz, created the Smartwatch + 3 AIs

[raw yew]

You’re not telling me they outsourced shd tech 🥲

I thought it was supposed to be top secret

[ashen jungle]

That is what DARPA do.

they work with contractors.

see: lockheed, boeing, etc.

[raw yew]

This whole time I thought DARPA made the tech lol

[ashen jungle]

Due to watching way too many movies when I was a kid, so did I!

[raw yew]

Also why can’t we get our own warhounds … I mean clearly DARPA has some for the army 😭

[stray crystal]

They do have their own R&D, but also outsource a lot. That's how government secrets are usually exposed

[ashen jungle]

I like to think the Warhounds just really hate the colour orange and that's why they won't join us.

[raw yew]

If they made the chameleon they can keep outsourcing

It should be an smg so I can use it with hunters fury

[stray crystal]

It's also a bit the other way around with regards to the watch/AIs
Ortiz created and sold the tech, McManus and Natalya decided to bid on it.

[sick lantern]

the official wording was (past tense) "Developed either exclusively by the Division's Research and Development department or adapted from military or commercial technological prototypes" on SHD tech. so either the SHD makes it themselves, or they take something pre existing and bring it into their design pipeline and SHD-ify it

that's past tense because the DARPA and Ortiz lore don't fit entirely with that

[radiant citrus]

Eh... That presumes that the Ortizes weren't part of the R&D team in some capacity though. Not just that but given it's shd tech, which is made to essentially co-ordinate and communicate with Isac or insert AI in question here then it wouldn't be entirely far fetched to presume that even if they weren't actually the ones who made the technology directly, they did at least have some hand in it.

[sick lantern]

Ortiz are a seperate company Ortiz Robotics, not part of the Division's structure

[radiant citrus]

I know, but it's still important to remember, the division pre green poison was top secret, so while on paper the Ortizes likely shouldn't have been involved, it's likely they were and it was kept need to know. As in, if you weren't an agent or recruiter? You didn't know squat, nor did you need to know squat.

[sick lantern]

unless they got sucked up after that but I doubt it

[radiant citrus]

And that's not even accounting for usual information compartmentalization through chain of command.

For example, a random jobber agent won't know much about the tech beyond how to use it, because they don't particularly need to. It's like teaching someone about a gun before you hand it to them and basically say, "Ok, that guy over there? Go shoot him."

All they'd need to know is two things. How to point/aim, and how to shoot.

Of course, it's also Ubisoft so... Retcons are often made and not acknowledged.

[sick lantern]

that's the only constant lol

[radiant citrus]

Pretty much yeah lol, sometimes lore just has pockets(plot holes) it is what it is unfortunately.

[stray crystal]

Okay, I finally made my way through all the Descent comms.
You guys (as if 100K members doesn't have access to this channel lol) remember our speculation about McManus? I just laughed a bit when I heard what Vivian Conley and the NSA Analyst talked about in Comm #30

[glad spruce]

IIRC, we currently have 52 total Descent comms.

[stray crystal]

The UI says there's that many total, but only 31 has been released (that YT channel has all of them)

[raw yew]

Why do they do them weekly

Pretty much any new player to descent has to wait a year in theory to get all without outside sources 😭

[stray crystal]

There's supposed to be a catchup mechanic in place, you'll get about 4 or more pr. week, but "it doesn't work" now

[glad spruce]

Yeah, though due to how runs work out with randoms, it's like finding needle in a haystack.

[cyan haven]

I use mine with hunters fury, it’s actually very effective, even with a relatively unoptimised build

[raw yew]

I meant the damage bonus essentially

But it is a really good pairing I think especially in countdown with the countermeasures

[raw yew]

This thought just crossed my mind but wasn’t dragov a snitch… threw his father in jail and the Russian crime syndicate associated with his family… continuity here seems to be very inconsistent that they’d obey dragov simply because he freed them, Baret would probably have wanted him dead but who knows

[stray crystal]

I can't find anything on him being a snitch or doing anything to the crime syndicate.
He ended up resenting SHD while dispatched to Rikers Island, killed the Warden when the riots broke out and threw the keys to Barret. After Barret died, Dragov was approached by Duchess in seek of a new leader and Dragov treats the Rikers as family

[raw yew]

It’s in his shd profile for the manhunt

Also again the plot seems ridiculous considering he wasn’t one of them, i mean even we don’t trust Schaffer even though he has a plan to save us or so to speak

[stray crystal]

My pc is off, you got a screengrab of it?

[stray crystal]

You're seriously comparing the JTF and SHD to Rikers?

[raw yew]

No? The point is they have less of a reason to trust him lol because their whole motto is they don’t like division agents or authority, I mean you can read the wiki all you want but the point stands that just because he freed them doesn’t mean they are brainless which is what they make it seem like

They’re so unsophisticated in division 2, that they need to be domesticated to have a purpose

[stray crystal]

It's just. You're comparing us not trusting Schaeffer as to why they shouldn't trust Dragov

[raw yew]

You’d think their original leader would have a strong enough selling point to make them not stray away from their original purpose even after their death

[stray crystal]

Anyways, you online? :3

[raw yew]

I’m not comparing the two, I’m comparing two instances where we don’t trust Schaffer as much as they wouldn’t trust dragov just because plot says they do

No my ps is off

Dragovs plot is just too convenient is all

[stray crystal]

I'm saying the two instances aren't comparable. It's like comparing apples to oranges

[stray crystal]

Dang. Sucks because I can't find the word for word description from the manhunt anywhere. I'm more curious than anything, annoying. Maybe I just need to find an old let's play of WONY

[raw yew]

It’s not bro you’re reading this as if both factions have the same goal or something. The point is 2 opposing sides suddenly having reason to trust each other because they have a position of value

[stray crystal]

Because like. I can find Vivian's, because ubi for some reason has a screengrab of hers on an faq page about manhunts

[raw yew]

The problem is to do it I think I need to replay WONY

And I don’t have a 4th character available atm

[stray crystal]

Oh yeah, F that, I'll find the let's play.
I'm mad surprised there's not just a screenshot of it on the wiki lmao

That's wiki 101 shit

[raw yew]

As much as I like the fandom wiki I take it at face value over what’s in the game

[stray crystal]

But like. First time you meet a new character in a manhunt, there's the bio. Screenshot the bio, put on wiki, go from there. But no

[raw yew]

I could be wrong though so don’t hold me to it, it’s just something I recall reading where dragov had beef with his father who was a mob moss which inspired him to become a police officer and was later recruited to SHD. He as a police officer turned in his father or arrested him or something

Cause dragov was the most interesting to me simply because the rikers faction diverted from the division 1 faction so hard…

[stray crystal]

Bruh this one guy takes 1h30 from intro to killing Javier, and does not ONE TIME look at the target data smh

[raw yew]

Not everyone does lol I mainly did it to see what their occupations were and where they lived in New York

[tepid ibex]

Its bcus they got ahold of some Fast and Furious DVDs since D1 and were all about family since

[sleek plover]

They just got their summer attire.
While cleaners...well..love their hazmats no matter the climate

[raw yew]

Can’t blame them

[glad spruce]

I'm probably immature, but I would like Kelso to make an angry rant against Nat Sokolova.

Ngl, Sokolova's arrogant demeanor always pisses me off

[wicked gorge]

Since she’s a rich brat in a nutshell im pretty sure she is supposed to piss you off

[ashen jungle]

"the villain annoys me" is certainly not a hot take.

[shut barn]

In mission Jefferson is "unknown" hunter is Recruiter.

[wicked gorge]

Yeah

[hardy oar]

In my opinion this is not a good idea. Sokolova is a very cunning woman and she plays her mind games with the Division. We (The SHD) must keep our heads cool, don't rush and not fall for her tricks. We lose our cool - we are defeated.

But yeah, she IS annoying

[nova falcon]

Anyone else wish we had the option at the start of the story path to choose to go rogue or remain loyal to the SHD?

[stray crystal]

I get where you're coming from, reminds me a bit of the Infamous game series, choosing whether you're good or bad - but if you went rogue at the start of Div2 story - aren't you just, like, gonna be killing agents like in the DZ?

[shut barn]

Better be hunter,and kill division.And not need be loyal to SHD and Division army.

[nova falcon]

Cus tbh playing as the shd I kinda feel like the bad guy ngl, like I feel like keener has a point

[radiant citrus]

I mean... We don't really know what the rogues actually do when they're not actively being manhunted tho, and fact is, not all rogues are evil necessarily, you can legit be flagged rogue just for going to check on your family if that's classed as "off mission"

[sick lantern]

i was just thinking on my way home from work about Infamous actually- death battle idea, Cleaners vs Dust Men. no Alden to keep things fair

[nova falcon]

This ^

I feel like it could add more of a moral choice to the game as it seems like the division are I'm not gonna say bad guys but they aren't exactly the heros

[shut barn]

Option is better,work with McManus or with SHD be rogue or hunter be hunter is good option but hunting rogues and cleans.

[radiant citrus]

Yeah, it's definitely more a shades of grey than a good v evil thing at this point, especially given that BT aren't actually the worst people either, the only actual mustache twirling villains really are the outcasts, and even then, they're just traumatized people who Emeline basically gave guns and told "Go forth, and kill. That's it. Just, kill."

Even the hyenas, for the most part, they're just trying to have "fun"

[nova falcon]

I feel like the outcasts aren't really villains but a cult however, they follow the grand leader emelines will going as far as strapping napalm to their chest and running at the JTF and agents

[shut barn]

And practically SHD (not modified) tech is bad.

[sick lantern]

what makes the division un-heroic? what do they do wrong?

[radiant citrus]

Yeah, true, I'll admit villain might be the wrong word. Fact is though, far as rogues, Theo was just manipulated by Keener, Conley went a bit mad, understandable really, dragov just wanted to protect his family, whether they were criminals before the apocalypse or not, and Keener and Kajika were loyal to the cause, but got branded rogue legitimately because they refused to retreat with the JTF after new york went dark.

Which, honestly wasn't a bad thing to do, given the JTF left a lot of people to just... Die.

Some rogues like Jupiter who legit just killed for fun, are definitely not ideal, but some rogues, it's pretty understandable how they got to that point.

Also low-key pretty sure that Keener was actually helping people get out of NY after it fell too.

[nova falcon]

In certain echos you can see around the dz keener is actually fighting off enemy's attacking civillians in one he was fighting a faction can't remember but a molotov is thrown through a window and the civillians keener was protecting were burned alive

[sick lantern]

they're Rikers
he's actually quite far from the DZ in that ECHO iirc lol

so he has a tragic backstory, but what does he actually do that's good? he helped a few dozen civilians. ok so all those Division agents he killed, 2/3 of his own fellow cell members and an unknown but fairly large number of fellow first wave agents otherwise, 20 odd second wave agents in an osprey, however many agents were at city hall... how many civilians could they have saved?

[radiant citrus]

Eh, I don't think anyone's trying to excuse what he did, but fact is, those agents "on mission" aren't exactly saints either. Nor are the JTF

[sick lantern]

not to mention that he always leaves his allies hung out to dry as well, Raptor, Domino, the LMB, Kajika, Conley, Parnell and Dragov

[sick lantern]

even the first wave agents who were in literally the same situation as him?

[radiant citrus]

Ok, I'll admit, you've got me there, but fact is that's based upon information bias. All we do know for certain is Keener was pretty awful, and more than a few first wave agents also went rogue. The fact is though, rogues for the most part, are out for themselves, Keener even says as such in his dead drops

He's just the most prominent example we know, and the fact is, the same could be said about agent Johnson, cause as far as he was concerned he was still on mission, and we were the rogue ones.

The fact is, your fate isn't decided by your actions, it's decided depending on what the wristwatch decides you are.

You could absolutely be a saint, but Isac could disagree with your judgement call, and brand you rogue.

[nova falcon]

Isaac is an awful system tbh

[sick lantern]

that doesn't stop you from determining your own actions after the fact though. just cus the watch goes red you don't have to go "oh whoopsie guess it's bioweapon time"

[radiant citrus]

True, but what you have to remember is, Keener couldn't have gone back at that point anyway, fact is once that little watch goes red, it doesn't matter who you are or what you've done. It's like in the real world, for the most part, you commit a crime? You're branded with that and looked down on, regardless of the actual situation or circumstances.

Most of the JTF and division, even civilians, operate on a shoot on sight directive concerning rogues.

[sick lantern]

source?

[nova falcon]

Again like he said he's not justifying keener actions however I feel like if you are doing what you are assigned to do being protect and save what or who remains and the get told your rogue for doing such a thing would make you feel betrayed by the system pretty hard tbh

[sick lantern]

i don't think most of the JTF and SHD in NYC really even considered they were rogues. they thought the first wave were all "either dead or MIA"

[radiant citrus]

The only example of the contrary is in New York, haven welcomes rogues that want to help, but otherwise? You are seen as a threat, same way that hyenas, true sons and outcasts see a watch and go "Oh! An agent?! Kill him!"

You say source, but think back, whenever someone has gone rogue, even if the designation has been questionable at best, how does everyone in universe react? A feeling of Betrayal.

Even random rogue agent encounters just in the wild, it's not like they're exactly staging a bioweapon attack like keener, and yet, isac immediately says you need to kill em. Even the DZ project texts brand rogues as nothing but oathbreakers who need to be put down.

[nova falcon]

I also feel like keener was doing the whole bioweapon thing to get the attention of the division, and he'll it worked no? Our agents and Kelso from everywhere on the eastcoast rushed to new york to stop keener, he was trying to send a message

[radiant citrus]

True, and his end goal, was to basically, make the entirety of Manhattan, another dark zone. Plunge it back into anarchy and a philosophy of might makes right.

His eclipse virus would've started another outbreak, which in turn would've essentially caused circumstances to repeat themselves, and with the rogue network active, he was planning to essentially make the rogues, his own division.

Was he right? God no. But that's not what anyone's saying.

[sick lantern]

i just simply don't believe that there are so many rogues who would be marked for no good reason and then decide to commit to being evil because they're a bit scared of being shot. like, stash the watch and gear and show up in your civvies...
these people swore oaths, trained rigorously to save what remains during the end times. and not one of them had the dedication to try to get back to non rogue status and work through a technical issue??

[sick lantern]

respectfully a fair few people are saying that lol

[nova falcon]

I don't think it would've started an outbreak, the eclipse virus only affects a radius, it doesn't spread from person to person the same way the green poison does, what made yhe green poison an outbreak was the fact that by the time you even knew you had symptoms it had spread to everyone else you had been in contact with since contracting the virus, eclipse kills instantly almost meaning it has no time to spread from person to person, yes the eclipse virus could've done some damage however nowhere near as much as the green poison

[radiant citrus]

Uh... It's not just the watch that identifies you though, but you're right, they probably could have ditched their gear, but say they do. Say you're branded Rogue yourself, doesn't matter why, but say that you were, you are now viewed as a threat simply for existing, you don't want to die. In the moment, you're not going to be thinking of morality, survival instinct takes over. And instinct? Doesn't care about morals.

You have a better chance surviving with all your gear than without it.

[sick lantern]

again I really don't think the JTF and the SHD had such a hatred for rogue first wave agents. they didn't even really know they existed

[radiant citrus]

If it were as simple as ditch the watch though that'd be a solution, yeah. But the fact is, Isac is everywhere, the network when you are registered as an agent, has a database of your prints, your face, your everything. If an agent's nearby? All it takes is Isaac deciding "Wait. I know you."

First wave initially, no. That came after, yes, but now, the atmosphere and attitude towards rogues for the most part is just... Kill on sight.

[sick lantern]

and even when it comes down to just survival... that doesn't excuse let's say, working with Aaron "bioweapon time" Keener, or randomly jumping non-rogues who wouldn't know you exist otherwise
there's a point where self defence becomes outright aggression, to draw parallels to certain news events these past few years

[sick lantern]

i know i was just making a short example not overly literal

[radiant citrus]

The fact is, yes, there was probably initially some leeway and the more hostile of the bunch ruined it for everyone else, yeah, but alas, sometimes that's just how it be lol

[nova falcon]

The amount of hostile rogue agents to the coincidental rogue agents makes SHD agents and JTF agents scared Total he point where they will just shoot on sight and ask questions later

[radiant citrus]

Exactly. For the most part, we only hear of the hostile ones, but in some of the comms, you can actually see evidence of some rogues not actually being inherently unpredictable, kill everything rogues.

One such example I believe is, one person couldn't take it anymore, had already decided he couldn't do it anymore, and tried to go home.

[sick lantern]

yea but then you read their backstory and it's like "slit a JTF officer's throat and fled"

[stray crystal]

I need this quoted on a poster with Keener on it.

[nova falcon]

It's can be seen all over the book hunted, that people would rather just kill anything with a red ring on the watch than risk it

[sick lantern]

no spoilers please.

not out in UK til April

[radiant citrus]

True lol, those guys far as I'm concerned? Fair game, but I don't truly believe that everyone who got branded by the as Manny says "stupid wristwatch" is exactly a bad guy.

[nova falcon]

I'm in the UK haven't read it yet however just was watching an NGN video on the topic and it was mentioned

[radiant citrus]

Also, Theo Parnell? Just a guy with daddy issues, who got played by keener trying to find out what happened to his dad.

That's legit why he went rogue, and keener even says, every 1 in 3 agents he comes across, he convinces that 1 in 3 of them to go rogue 💀

[sick lantern]

i got mildly spoiled by NGN already so. same thing

[nova falcon]

I hope that Kelso doesn't go rogue tbf cus I don't wanna have to kill her

[sick lantern]

i'm fairly sure what you're referring to is the phone call that he convinced Scarecrow to go rogue with him and killed the other two members of his cell

[radiant citrus]

Nope, I think it's one of the dead drops, he says about how he does actually manipulate people a bit

I forget where you find it, but it's not an Aaron Keener one from NY I don't think

[nova falcon]

Tbf he's good at manipulating, made me wanna go rogue if I had the option to

[radiant citrus]

Exactly, that's why he got so far. He was legit a stock broker before the green poison, it was basically his job to play people against eachother.

Also, the psych evaluations for agent recruitment? Uh... Yikes. They knew kajika and conley were risks from the get go lol

Kelso too actually

Far as Kelso going rogue? I'm not a massive fan of her myself, but... Given the foreshadowing being a subtle as a brick, I wouldn't be surprised if she did, even if I also hope she doesn't.

For context: Conley legit got called out for being obsessive, and Kajika I'm pretty sure that they were concerned because of his background and the fact that they didn't know if he'd snap.

[nova falcon]

If she goes rogue I'm sitting this manhunt out XD don't wanna have to be the one to execute her

[nova falcon]

Convey legit suggested to odea tech to make firebombs for the SHD

[radiant citrus]

Honestly? I don't agree with Faye exactly, but... Something did need to be done about Ellis.

He was not a good guy and frankly, he'd been in black tusks pocket since the outbreak started

So I'd like to think if Kelso did, it'd be for a pretty good reason at least

[nova falcon]

Yeah

Kelso is the type of agent to get shit done wether that means her going rogue for the mission or not

[raw yew]

rip you’re rogue

[shut barn]

Better be hunter,not Division no power goverment.(But is not possible)

[shut barn]

I too not kill her.

[cold bramble]

going off from some of the recruitment comms like kajika and Vivian, they made some poor choices in recruitment

[wicked gorge]

Am I insane or did they update Tidal basin with a couple of Ortiz tech crates on the hovercraft cause I swear they weren’t there before

[stray crystal]

I saw that on reddit - legendary TB has those crates, it has just been transferred to non TB or something like that for some reason. Wouldn't think too much about it