halo-discussion

[wooden briar]

This is really frustrating after all of the time you put into ascending ranks, so we want to ensure this doesn't get buried in chat: would you also copy this into a #1039633978841374720 post so that it remains visible for staff to see when they tour through for feedback?

[left blaze]

I got a question for anyone who knows about Halo Mythic or just 100DOS systems in general

How the heck do they work?😅

[solid canopy]

https://www.halopedia.org/Cancelled_Halo_project_(2011)

I do wonder what this project was. I'm willing to bet it was part of Ryan Payton's version of Halo 4, which just makes me way more intrigued

I can only hope that DYKG or some outlet invested in game development history could dig up some more information

[solid canopy]

How has Halo Studios/343i not fixed the audio bug on Halo 4 Xbox MCC

This and the glitch on Reclaimer are the most glaring and obvious issues that need fixing

[celest heron]

cause there were hundreds of other bugs and they likely didn't get to it.

the reclaimer one is legacy if you meant the terrain disappearing.

[solid canopy]

Idk, it just feels so apperant and damaging to the game

Like not being able to hear any of the characters at the game's climax is just such a letdown

[celest heron]

file a support ticket and maybe if a miracle happens they'll get to it.

[solid canopy]

I might as well, but I know I'm not the only one to exprience this thing

[celest heron]

well it might get noticed more if people decide to submit bug reports.

[glacial tartan]

If things like Rejoin arent being addressed an H4 audio bug seems out of reach - BUT, agreed you still ought to file a ticket because otherwise it has no chance.

[inland minnow]

software support/dev (not for halo) here to once again state that "number of user reports" is one of two top metrics used to decide if a bug is worth fixing. the other is impact/severity

[gilded pivot]

💫

[solid canopy]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1J3z_2Uep8&pp=ygUYaGFsbyBhbm5pdmVyc2FyeSB0cmFpbGVy

Pitty they haven't got Jeff Steitzer to do voice over for more trailers

I loved how he sounded here

[coarse dagger]

https://www.threads.com/@halo/post/DUZfyHoEbs2

[onyx latch]

He's getting up there in years, and IIRC he's kinda changing his career goals/retiring due to health

[solid canopy]

Yeah, it is totally understandable

But it is a shame they didn't do it again for H2A or the MCC

[hearty gyro]

Is it hard to get the unicorn emblem

[onyx latch]

If you lack thumbs or a functioning internet connection I would wager the answer is maybe yes.

[hearty gyro]

Do I have to be lucky to be in a match with them

[glacial tartan]

Yes because other people will be trying as well. The benefit is there are considerably less people now than in the past, so your chances are higher

[zealous cloak]

Yeahhh but to my knowledge it's not usually that difficult
Sorta depends how long they're on for

[plucky flicker]

Campaign Evolved might be coming out earlier than expected?

[sturdy kernel]

Nobody knows
Everything you are reading on the internet is based on non-confirmed information about CEA
Wait until official information will arrive

[short flower]

Yep I hope the summer date isn’t confirmed. Not enough time for HS and it just wouldn’t fit right!

[hearty gyro]

Today , i'm gonna try to get the unicorn emblem

Because today is community play date

@zealous cloak @glacial tartan

[glacial tartan]

glhf!

[zealous cloak]

Sound's like a plan!

[plucky flicker]

I am more willing to trust Tom Warren. 🤷‍♂️

[short flower]

Sadly ill have to work DURING the play date.

And idk how much longer they’re gonna do those, so I am permanently unable to get it.

It’s depressing, and it was already like this from the start.

Hate to sound like a broken record it’s just the truth.

[coarse dagger]

https://www.youtube.com/live/JV7FnAZGsvU?si=Nm05RJiCo59aUpaN

[hearty gyro]

I tried , I did not get the unicorn

It's hard

@coarse dagger

[sullen kiln]

Please do not tag Admins or Moderators unless immediate action is needed. If you see anything that does not abide by our rules and guidelines, please tag a Moderator to bring it to their attention.

[desert karma]

Hello

[desert karma]

Don't ping mods or admins

[hearty gyro]

Okay

[left snow]

Everyone is assuming November - for the Anniversary - but also wary of going up against the new GTA.

So it's probably not a bad assumption that it could release earlier than "expected".

But we pretty much know nothing official.

[short flower]

That’s right it actually might clash with the grand theft auto release…

[compact marlin]

I've seen a lot of people worrying that CER won't be finished in time, but people have to remember that it is being made in U.E.5, an engine that is simple to use, most of the stuff people want fixed is very simple stuff, so I think the game will be finished by release

[solid canopy]

This news does leave me a little worried that this game will come out under-cooked or rushed for time

Especially if they are trying to listen to fan feedback and make changes to meet those demands

[left snow]

Possibly. But we don't know how far they have progressed in the 100+ days since we've seen anything. And what we saw was probably an earlier (more stable) version anyway.

In principle - as long as they have the hybrid engine up and running - it should be relatively quick to rebuild the assets / levels. It's not like they are doing all this from scratch.

But yes, with the disaster of Infinite's launch - it's right to worry a little bit. 🙂

[left snow]

Hopefully they are ignoring most of that "fan" feedback.

The typical response on Reddit / Youtube etc is along the lines of "we don't need another CE game" - and besides, I will refuse to play it if it doesn't have "insert whatever call back to 2001 is important to me".

The target audience for this project is not necessarily those people...

[solid canopy]

Random detail I noticed-
When Cortana pulls up a Broadsword at the end of Composer you can see the original UNSC logo on the side of it. This is because it is reusing Sparth's concept art for the Broadsword which included the classic logo

[solid canopy]

I still think that it looking/feeling true to the original is important

Rythaze's cover art for Paracite's Wake and the responce to it is evidence enough for this

Staying true to the intent of the original and it's tone, atmostphere, art direction, ect. is crucial when this is going to be people's first encounter with the series or Halo CE specifically. I don't believe people should get a (another) compromised version of Halo CE

There is also the concern about this game falling short and how that is going to be a kick in the shin for Halo Studios

You only get one chance to make a first impression or win people over. If they drop the ball, I don't think there will be much goodwill/faith left. Not to mention 343i's trackrecord with game launches was..... poor. MCC's network failings, 5's lack of day-one content, and Infinite's drought of updates give me and plenty of other people reasons to be skeptical

I really want this game to succeed and blow people's expectations away

[short flower]

Master sergeant grade 3… reclaimer 19/20…

And that’s a wrap on completing all my battle passes!

Currently 110,326 to go until Lieutenant!

[unkempt geyser]

When dose halo come out on ps5

[sleek field]

just finished halo 4 gng

so tuff 🥹

now how do I play halo 5 on PC lol, ive heard people say it's bad but i still wanna get to it anyway

[waxen spire]

yes twinn best halo (halo 4)

[waxen spire]

you can only play forge on PC or you can do cloud gaming with a controller only

[sleek field]

wordd

[sleek field]

dayum, might try it. it's crazy that it's only in one platform

[waxen spire]

yeah

[sleek field]

don't even have an xbox controller too, only got a 360

and im betting a ps5 controller won't work either 💔

[waxen spire]

needs third party software but itll work

[left snow]

As long as we're not a slave to a quarter of a century ago.

This is about modernising the franchise for a new generation to get on board.

You still have the original / MCC if, for some reason, you want to see what games where like in 2001.

I saw some posts elsewhere harping on about the horror aspects of the original CE - and how they couldn't wait for new players to experience that. Just setting things up to fail - as if a modern audience was ever going to react the same way we did 25 years ago.

[solid canopy]

Idk, I think the Flood reveal still works and catches the uninitiated off guard pretty much just the same

Also Halo CE, while yes it does show its age sometimes, has generally held up fine. It isn't like Goldeneye where the control scheme was archaic and graphics were muddled down by low-frame rates and sluggish draw distances

People can still jump into Halo CE with reletive ease just like they can with Doom or Half-Life

A remake doesn't need to change all that much beyond sanding down some of the rougher edges.

[tiny flare]

halo ce aging better than most of us tbh

[wooden meadow]

halo ce is timeless for me

[distant plank]

where do i start with halo? i have only played CE and a bit of halo 2 but that was ages ago

[wooden meadow]

can't be replicated

[distant plank]

i have also read the first 2 books but that was also ages ago

[wooden meadow]

ce or reach,i personally like to start at ce because the transition in gameplay to each game feels smoother,but you can start with reach as it's a prequel to ce also

[distant plank]

what about the expanded media

[wooden meadow]

idk i've only played the games,but i've been thinking about getting into the audiobooks recently,most of them are region locked for me on spotify tho

[left snow]

Yep. And don't get me wrong. It's a nice direction for the story. And they are still fun to fight.

But I've seen people post about the horror experience. Which may have worked for us in 2001 - but isn't going to have the same effect on a generation who grew up with the Last of Us etc.

[left snow]

The remake needs to have a more modern feel. It can't be clunky.

I am happy for them to bring the weapon and vehicle sandbox into sync with more modern versions.

We need consistency going forward into whatever form of multiplayer with the way movement works (eg. Sprint). With how health and shields work. Equipment. And so on. There is no point "going back".

I've seen people threaten to boycott on the basis of 64 shot AR's - or toning down of the mini-hand cannon that was the CE pistol.

There are a lot of things that HS have to get right. And it won't be easy. But there isn't a hope in Hell they can (or should) please everyone.

But I do agree 100% - the launch needs to be complete and tidy. There will be enough for the haters to hate without soft serving them up easy hits.

[civic sundial]

I genuinely don't get the attachment to the CE AR's 60 round magazine, because it was only there for CE, before getting replaced by the SMG and then when the AR came back for Halo 3, it had a 32 round magazine which was standard until Halo 5 bumped the mag size up to 36

Like, we've hard 32-36 round mags for the AR be standard since 2007. If anything, going back to the 60 round magazine would just feel at odds with having weapons like the SMG

[compact marlin]

Exactly, which would make adding the SMG useless if the AR had 60 rounds

[left snow]

Me either.

And TBH - I didn't even remember there was such a thing 🙂

But it's a hill that some seem prepared to die upon.

And I can only imagine what other torches people will take to the streets.

It could be very amusing.

Providing the game is otherwise doing well.

[lost turret]

Checking in, who’s watching the Olympics!? I believe the Olympics are the key to world peace. Plus, gamer support of athletes worldwide = better relationships and opportunities for global Major League Gaming ♾️🛡️

[left snow]

It's a lovely thought... But we've had over 50 Olympiads since 1896 - and we're not exactly hurtling towards world peace. 🙁

[lost turret]

That's fair, but we just have to be persistent and kind. With that, we can accomplish anything ❤️‍🔥

Also, my Macbook Air, ThinkPad charging doc port thing, and Samsung G7 monitor do NOT like each other at all. Plugging in my Mac into the doc which flows into the Samsung monitor makes my stream crash which is obnoxious

It keeps making halo and overwatch glitch out on the monitor

[inland minnow]

hi, this channel is for discussing halo. for general chatter please use #general-chat

[celest heron]

I don't think they'll be terrified like an actual horror game, but people can still get freaked out or anxious esp with the chasing aspect.

[celest heron]

the main complaints are usually with the campaign.

[celest heron]

you can do more damage before having to reload and it's mainly just staying true to the original. I think it's just an unnecessary change, but I'm not upset about it or anything.

[short flower]

I shall get Lieutenant today or tomorrow

[warm frost]

I think the new CE will look great and probably feel great based on the clips and screenshots we've seen so far. It's nice to see a colour palette in a 343 game for once. I do kind of worry about whether the forerunner structures are going to be pristine and shiny as hell and have every light glow a horrendous blue like in past 343 art styles, but we shall see. I also worry about them forcing their retcons into the narrative of CE, specifically with dialogue and cutscenes from The Library and Two Betrayals. So I'm skeptical but hopeful at the same time.

[hearty rune]

will someone play halo with me

[sullen kiln]

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
#lfg-social – For social/casual matchmaking
#lfg-campaign - For campaign co-op
#lfg-forge - For map/mode building and testing
#lfg-customs - For custom games
#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
#lfg-hcs-scrims-or-teams – To help you find a team or secure some scrims

Don't forget to check out #lfg-and-voice-chat to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

[hearty rune]

ty

[solid canopy]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a few references to events in the Forerunner trilogy or details from what happens in The Flood

Anyway, I was watching Kammyshep's video covering the history of each Installation, and it really did hit me how much Cortana's plan makes no sense with the very rules Bungie introduced

This is what happens when you don't have a writer for your games

[compact marlin]

What retcons?

[civic sundial]

Which plan of Cortana's are you referring to? And what do you mean by "This is what happens when you don't have a writer for your games"?

[solid canopy]

Her plan to deal with the Flood by lighting the ring and how Halo 3 did not have a proper writer, most of its story being done by committee

[civic sundial]

The stuff shown off in October was WIP, it's very probable they will be doing a pass or two to make the structures more dirty and change up the lighting we have seen in the demo. And what do you mean by "forcing their retcons into the narrative of CE"?

[civic sundial]

Ah, had to be sure what you were talking about

Yeah, Halo 3's story is such a mess

[solid canopy]

Joesph Staten stepped back after being burnt out working on Halo 2/having a disagreement with Marcus Lehto/to work on Contact Harvest

Most of its production there wasn't a proper writer, the team just kind of tossed ideas in around the structure they had built. There is a reason it was Marty O'Donnell who suggested killing off Miranda and Johnson. When you don't have a proper writer to tell your story, you are going to wind up clinging to every idea that comes your way

[civic sundial]

Believe me, I know how bad it was, I just had to be sure you were talking about the mess of Halo 3's campaign

[solid canopy]

And hell- while I don't like how their deaths were handled (especially Miranda), I don't even think having a few characters go down fighting was a bad idea

They just felt unearned and a bit cheap

[civic sundial]

Honestly, if we do get a Halo 3 remake, I wouldn't mind them reworking Halo 3's campaign to fix the issues

[inland minnow]

@jade pebble please dont necro conversations like that

[jade pebble]

huh?

[inland minnow]

please dont restart an old conversation that is largely just arguing amongst users

ie: replying to an old message complaining about a user

[jade pebble]

Im not? just replying to it

[glacial tartan]

If we get a Halo 3 remake I'd be happy for it to be only campaign

Similar to CEs original approach. Remake the Campaign, give the mp a refresh by targeting gametype/map combos

[jade pebble]

mods get weird when the subject is trenchbird. find that a bit odd

[jade pebble]

itd make sense if they wanted to add to the MCC some more

although seems like itd be a waste of money in that case

[inland minnow]

no, its just weird to dig up drama when this is #halo-discussion and not #old-drama-discussion

[glacial tartan]

Why do you say that?

[jade pebble]

because itll become a part of the bundle so idk if you can justify the same price theyd probably want for it. idk how theyd figure out that scheme

[civic sundial]

Honestly, having the hypothetical remakes of 2 and 3 (As it would be odd to skip remaking 2 if we get a Halo 3 remake) be campaign only is how I'd do it. I am betting they've got a dedicated multiplayer in the works and they'll likely add stuff to that themed around 2 and 3 to coincide with each remake

[glacial tartan]

Arent they remaking just campaign for CE for a second time right now?

[jade pebble]

yeah but thatll be a standalone thing wont it?

[civic sundial]

First time, CEA wasn't a remake

Like all CEA was is just a new coat of paint over the already existing Combat Evolved

[jade pebble]

idek what to call CEA. doesnt even feel like a remaster, just a graphics mod

[glacial tartan]

If they chose to remaster H3 instead of remake, same comments

[civic sundial]

It's a remaster

[jade pebble]

I think we let that term out its cage too easily

[glacial tartan]

I have very serious hopes they dont touch the multiplayers. But we'll see

[jade pebble]

when I think of remake/remaster I think of games like resident evil remake

or what they are doing now with H1

[civic sundial]

Resident Evil 1 Remake was a remake, yes, not a remaster

[jade pebble]

whats the difference then

[civic sundial]

Remasters aren't the game remade from the ground up

Most remasters involve updating textures and some quality of life changes

[jade pebble]

so how much do you have to just retouch a game for it to count as a remaster to you

[glacial tartan]

Forget the term - the point is, they can go nuts on campaign but after what they've delivered regarding multiplayer on repeat I think they are better off left alone

[civic sundial]

Like, as I already said, CEA is a remaster

[jade pebble]

I really liked infinite MP

[jade pebble]

I dont really agree

[glacial tartan]

I am happy to hear you enjoyed it

[civic sundial]

I doubt HS will abandon making multiplayer, I just don't think we'll be seeing a multiplayer attached to any potential future remakes they could make

[jade pebble]

although if they make a new MP with this remake I would prefer it to be more like the original one. maybe no sprint etc, as much as I like that

[glacial tartan]

Thats what I meant/hope for. Not multiplayer EVER, just dont try to change H2 / H3s. H2A MP could have never existed and H2A would have been viewed in a much kinder light. Do that again

[civic sundial]

CEA is quite literally a new layer of graphics running on top of the original Combat Evolved. They did not rebuild the game from scratch, which is what a remake would be

[jade pebble]

yeah but I dont think they did enough is my problem with that. a lot of the clunkyness is still there because didnt properly update geometry

and just porting over old assets to do the job..

[civic sundial]

It's still a remaster

[jade pebble]

it lacks the love and effort I feel like a competent modding community could do

[civic sundial]

Like, they had a limited time to get it done in, I don't think it released the way it was because it lacks "love and effort"

[jade pebble]

idc

[civic sundial]

Regardless of the quality, it still counts as a remaster

[jade pebble]

for me it hasnt crossed that threshold. graphics mod not make a remaster.

[civic sundial]

What do you even define as a remaster then?

Because it seems like you just want to come up with an arbitrary reason so you can refuse to call it a remaster

[latent acorn]

Remakes and Remasters are two different things. They are not the same.

[glacial tartan]

I am well aware 😄

I do not care which route they go, please re-read my comments

Remake H3 campaign = wow awesome
Remaster H3 campaign = wow awesome
Attempt to remake OR remaster H3 multiplayer = recipe for disaster

The fact they (seemingly) arent attempting to touch CEs multiplayer w/ the new campaign evolved thing is a good sign for me

[civic sundial]

I think I'd rather them remake Halo 3 than remaster it. Gives them the opportunity to rework things like Arbiter's role in the story

Like, give us a few additional missions which explore what Arbiter was doing at certain points in the campaign or something

Like, unless co-op is the canon for how Halo 3 went down, what was Arbiter doing during Tsavo Highway? What was he doing before he joined Chief in High Charity?

[lost trellis]

As much as I love Thel I don’t think that needs to really be done. Wondering exactly what he’s doing between missions is overall weird because characters are always doing stuff off screen between missions like how Johnson leaves you in Halo 2 to lead the marines defense of New Mombasa. We can just assume he’s helping in his own way and since he evacs with the rest of the remaining troops in the base on Miranda’s pelican he’s probably just helping them do whatever they were doing.

Also devs are weird with remakes which is why I don’t like the CE remake so far. They get weirdly picky with what stays and what goes. Like RE4 removed some things I’d say help make RE4 what I was and RE3 was really bad with a lot of stuff. I don’t think any Halo game needs a remake IMO. Perhaps Halo 5 to make its story more coherent to casuals. I’d buy that asap especially if they went with the story they we’re marketing instead of whatever the hell we got

[warm frost]

Forerunners were meant to be human. It wasn’t until 343 took over that they decided they weren’t. Which unfortunately makes the entire Human/Covenant war make no sense.

[compact marlin]

Yeah, Halo 3 terminals disapprove that, if that was really true, Bungie would've updated the game and fix it

[warm frost]

They don't

Only one section, written by Frankie "disproves" it. And those sections also contradict other basic lore things and the timeline.

You can't claim that Forerunner were not meant to be human because 2% of the content of Halo 3 written by a guy who didn't know all the lore in the first place contradicts it

I highly recommend you watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P-uOCKDTAA

Goes into great detail on how Bungie definitely intended for the Forerunner to be human, and shows how 343's retcons make continuity a problem for the game. Therefore you kind of have to treat the two companies as making games for separate universes

[civic sundial]

You know others within Bungie had to approve of what was in that terminal, right?

Like, if it was an issue to say humanity wasn't the same as Forerunner, they would've not shipped that terminal like that

But regardless, Bonnie is right, Halo 3 is where we got our confirmation

[warm frost]

I don't think that's necessarily true. Bungie isn't a perfect company. Things can slip past

[civic sundial]

No amount of claiming it was actually 343 who did it will change that

[warm frost]

Especially when the terminals are as vague as they are

343 Guilty Spark literally says "You are Forerunner." How do you reconcile that?

[civic sundial]

The Terminals did not "slip past" anyone

[civic sundial]

Spark has shown multiple times to confuse and misremember things throughout the games, such as in Combat Evolved when speaking to Chief about a conversation he definitely didn't have with him

[warm frost]

In the first game that conversation is also proof that humans are forerunner. He wasn't misremembering a conversation with a specific person (again that is a 343 retcon), but he is saying "you" as "humanity" not as a singular individual.

[civic sundial]

Regardless, the whole human-Forerunner debate is pointless these days, they're not the same. Maybe at some point they were planned to be, but there were contradicting opinions on the idea within Bungie back in the day

[compact marlin]

You want me to watch a video where I got harassed for giving my opinion and actual evidence for proving the video was wrong?

[civic sundial]

Like, it's not like Bungie had a whole unified plan they were following all along. Most of the lore was made up as they went

[warm frost]

I agree it's pointless and these days they are different. There is no changing that now. But it was 100% a 343 retcon. Bungie had no intentions of ever making Forerunner a different species

[civic sundial]

So you're just choosing to ignore the facts then, got it

[civic sundial]

Pretty sure I saw the guy who made that video come out and say he regrets making it because people constantly harass others using points he made in the video

[warm frost]

The facts are that all retcons in relation to that stem from one person. Frankie. Frankie does not represent Bungie as a whole. There's even Bungie staff members who have stated that the terminals were not meant to point to them being a separate species.

[civic sundial]

I never said Frank did represent the whole of Bungie

But also, that doesn't change that the Terminals confirm humanity and Forerunners are different or the fact that people within Bungie had differing opinions. It's not a case of it was everyone vs Frank on the matter

[warm frost]

343 fans can have their retcon story and like it, that's fine. But I assure you, it's entirely a 343 fabrication, not a Bungie one.

[civic sundial]

Like, it genuinely comes across that you think Frank snuck in and changed things on behalf of 343 when that's not at all the case

[compact marlin]

And also, the only proof you Bungie Stands have are someone who stabbed you in the back and a cut ending in Halo 2

[warm frost]

No, I think that he wrote the terminals without having knowledge of the rest of the established lore and then went on to continue his misunderstanding of the universe while in charge at 343. One section of terminals does not overwrite the 2 book series and 2 games that came before it.

[compact marlin]

Now you're just trying to grasp at straws

[warm frost]

Am I? This is like claiming that the theory of gravity doesn't exist because things float in water. One instance of something not falling doesn't overwrite all of the other evidence. There is overwhelming evidence from Bungie's games that they are the same race. One section of terminals doesn't erase all of that, and I don't understand the thought process of claiming that it does. 343 is responsible for the retcon.

And again, I need to reiterate. I know they are different now and there's no changing that. The universe I came to know and love it gone and it isn't coming back. I just need you to understand that it was 343 that changed it, not Bungie.

[civic sundial]

This does not compare to proving or disproving gravity

[twin crag]

some people annoy me so much on ranked ugh

I got comms on too
but nah just ignore

[civic sundial]

Like, you are actively pushing mis-information regarding the whole thing and multiple people here have already explained why what you are saying is incorrect

It has me wondering what other mis-information you push

[solid canopy]

With the fact that Chief likely carries Bornsteller's (the Forerunner who fired the Halo rings and asked Spark that very question of "if it were your choice") geas and Spark was confusing the two

[chrome mauve]

what if, now hear me out. Maybe it was changed by both studios

started by one and finished by another

[warm frost]

And again. Guilty Spark literally said "You are Forerunner." In Contact Harvest it's explicitly stated that humans are Forerunner. Guilty Spark says "The installation was specifically built to study and contain the Flood. Their survival as a race was dependent upon it. I am grateful to see that some of them survived to reproduce."

Why is it that Guilty Spark is only wrong when it comes to Forerunners being humans but always correct about everything else?

[solid canopy]

There are also differing accounts of the nature of the Forerunners from various Bungie devs, which would seem to point to the idea that not everybody behind the scenes was in agreement

Also worth noting that Contact Harvest was written in isolation from Bungie as Joesph Staten stepped away from the games during the development of Halo 3

[twin crag]

didn't bungie mostly just improvise the story every iteration?

[solid canopy]

Yes

[civic sundial]

They did

[solid canopy]

Halo 3 and Halo Reach are proof of that

[civic sundial]

Like, they had no plans originally for a Halo 2

[twin crag]

so then, relying on bungie era story for anything isn't going to be really reliable then?

cus u never know if they were going to do x or y anyway

[civic sundial]

But when CE was so successful, well, they made Halo 2

[solid canopy]

Bungie had no grand vision for the series, considering they didn't plan on it being a series to begin with

[warm frost]

Bungie era story isn't contradictory in critical aspects though

[solid canopy]

Except, idk, the nature of the Halo rings?

[civic sundial]

The Marines quite literally call Chief a "Mark V", which doesn't make sense because he isn't a Mark V of anything in Halo. His armour is but you don't refer to a person by their armour model normally (Unless you're talking about a guy called Locus)

[twin crag]

isn't the whole Forerunners were past humans to the Halo 3 kinda and then later some initial background on Forerunners actually starting to be different species isn't critically contradictory?

[solid canopy]

It is stated outright in Halo CE that "Halo doesn't kill the Flood, it kills their food" and yet Halo 3 contridicts this very clearly with how how they planned to fire Installation 08 and deal with the Flood.

[twin crag]

and then 343 canonised it by actual Halo 4

[warm frost]

Again, written by one man who continued to misunderstand the lore.

[civic sundial]

Not even 343 canonising it, Bungie were the ones who canonised it first

[warm frost]

And other Bungie devs have been on the record as stating that the Halo 3 terminals were not meant to give the impression of Forerunner being different

[twin crag]

sure so contradictory no?

[civic sundial]

So you're now changing it from one person working on the terminals to one person working on Halo 3's story

[solid canopy]

Hell, Frank O'Conner wasn't even the only person to write the terminals

[warm frost]

No. I'm saying one person wrote those terminals. Frankie. I never said he wrote Halo 3's story. Halo 3's story never implies Forerunner are different. It explicitly says "You are Forerunner."

[civic sundial]

Not contradictory. Just 343 carrying on with information within Halo 3 and fleshing it out more

[solid canopy]

People act like he was some sort of shadow opperative secertly trying to dismantle Bungie's vision of the series which there really wasn't one

[twin crag]

forerunners being past humans to forerunners taking out past humans and being a separate species is quite contradictory or am I thinking it wrong?

[warm frost]

Further proof that Bungie intended for them to be human is the fact that the Human/Covenant war makes zero sense if Forerunner aren't human. There's no reason for The Covenant to not have brought humans into it.

[twin crag]

idrc about 343 or bungo
they're both tryna do something but messing up here and there

[solid canopy]

Humans and Forerunners are "two branches on the same tree" so to speak

[twin crag]

yea from precursors

I wonder their thinking was when creating these specicies, like experiments or pets?

or just some drama to watch cus they're bored

[civic sundial]

See, it just goes back to the nature of how Bungie did things with basically no big plan. Ultimately they decided to make humanity and Forerunners separate species. Then the later addition of us being from the same evolutionary tree Otto mentioned is a more recent addition 343 added

[civic sundial]

Experiments mainly

[solid canopy]

Most likely the same species until they were separated by years and years of evolution

[twin crag]

so we all just come from a test tube

[warm frost]

And, if you want to keep citing the terminals how do you reconcile the Communications terminals and the Mendicant Bias terminals?

[compact marlin]

The Covenant mis-translated Mendicant Bias

[twin crag]

precursors were there with bungo as well no?

[warm frost]

Yes. As all the humans on Reach were "Reclaimers." They were all forerunner.

[civic sundial]

Forerunners chose humanity to be their successors, the Covenant misunderstood the glyph for Reclaimer as Reclaim. Saw a planet covered in the Reclaimer glyph and discovered humans. Not a great look for your ancient religion if you've built it on a mistranslation this whole time and there's living proof of that

[warm frost]

In Bungie's canon all humans were reclaimers. Not just some. That's another 343 retcon.

[twin crag]

huh

[solid canopy]

Humans inherted the Forerunners' stuff because the Forerunners failed, Halo was the ulitmate disgrace and their species was on its last legs

[twin crag]

when did that change or how?
I don't think 343 has some being reclaimers?

[civic sundial]

My guess is Precursors creating life is not quite as obviously scientific as that

[latent acorn]

Humans and Forerunners are two different species, they are not the same to begin with.

[warm frost]

343 makes it so that only some people with specific genes are reclaimers. Not all humans.

[twin crag]

sure hyper advanced test tube percursor version then

[twin crag]

is it in a book or u citing the show?

[warm frost]

Anyway, I have to go do real life things. The take away here is that Bungie established Forerunners as Humans and 343 retconned it. You can like that retcon if you want, but it absolutely was a retcon and to deny as such is to not pay very close attention to literal dialogue.

[twin crag]

ah this is still 🌲 fo 🌲 vs bungo thingy

idrc about that but when did the specific gene thing happen

[civic sundial]

See, now I'm convinced you're just making things up. Because there's never been anything within the 343 era which said this

[latent acorn]

There is no proof of a retcon has ever happened. Even humans being Forerunners was never planned at the start.

[civic sundial]

That is something we have all tried explaining to them

[twin crag]

ugh 343 v bungo in the big 26 😔

[civic sundial]

Not even just that, it's the Human-Forerunner debate in 2026 when it's such a tired and worn out debate

[compact marlin]

And Reclaimer doesn't always mean it's for the blood offspring, it's for whoever is chosen by the previous owner

[latent acorn]

Well, he was beating a dead horse on that and failed to listen to logic explanation.

[twin crag]

yea it's a boring debate now,
I think we've done enough of it,
let whoever wants shout in the abyss

tho, again, about the specific individual/genes thing, when did that happen?
I thought it was only in the show?

[civic sundial]

It's like the third or fourth time they've popped in to make claims about how a "rogue employee snuck into Bungie to add in a secret terminal" or how "343 didn't follow the one true vision of Bungie that they totally had since before Combat Evolved"

[compact marlin]

It's also funny that the person they site for proof is also the person that stabbed them in the back and has lied to them once before in Halo 1

And was clearly insane

[solid canopy]

Keep in mind that Bungie's Halo universe is largely inspired by/was once considered (though not for very long) in the Pathways Into Darkness/Marathon universe where another anicent species called the Jjaro existed, having multiple "client species", imprisoning ancient eldritch horrors, and leaving behind a bunch of their things

And while it has been a while since I've brushed up on Marathon's canon, it is pretty clear in those games that the Jjaro, be they a species or individual, was not human

[latent acorn]

I see. Then the induvial had no idea what he is talking about and was making up false assumption on believing a "rogue employee snuck into Bungie" and "343 didn't follow the one true vision" That concludes that person has no idea or has ever studied the Halo lore.

[solid canopy]

As the events of Pathways Into Darkness has a representitve of the Jjaro directly telling humans circa-late 20th Century that an Eldritch terror is gonna wake up if they don't go to its sleeping place and nuke it

[compact marlin]

And that wouldn't work anyway, cause the rogue employee would be fired and they're plan would be fixed either before the game released or fixed in an update

[civic sundial]

Remind me to finally play Marathon soon. I was gonna try doing something this month but changed plans to something Resident Evil instead

[solid canopy]

Play it, they are outstanding

[civic sundial]

Isn't it canon in Pathways that they visited Bill Clinton and told him about a slumbering alien?

[solid canopy]

The story especially is among the best I've ever had the pleasure of expriencing in a game

[civic sundial]

I fully intend to. I just need to figure out if I want to livestream or make a video out of it

[solid canopy]

Oh to live in a world where Duality came out

[civic sundial]

Honestly, it has me wondering what else they believe which is untrue

[compact marlin]

The guy has been real quiet since we proved him wrong

[twin crag]

eh

wait, I hope it's not me

cus I don't think there was anything for me?

[compact marlin]

No, the Bungie Stand

[twin crag]

huh ok

I gotta get into Halo lore again

tbvh I gotta get into Halo again
it's been a while I think

[compact marlin]

You should, you won't Regret it

[twin crag]

yea I don't, I start playing Infinite again, it's just so fun :D

[solid canopy]

Greg Kirkpatrick deserved to tell more stories

[twin crag]

I gotta complete Halo Wars 1 tho,

idk why I never did

all this fighting got us nowhere

[compact marlin]

Just like The Great Journey

[short flower]

I was trying to throw a plasma coil and game decides that it makes contact with the ceiling and not out at enemies… whatever…

Lieutenant rank nears anyway…

Brute continues to chase me when I literally got far away… whatever dude

Always the dumbest thing happening, wish I had control over unfair stuff.

[lost trellis]

Not if they left to join another company shortly after.

Can't fire someone who quit lol

[uncut oasis]

thats life, you cant have control over everything.

[compact marlin]

That still doesn't stop my second point

[short flower]

Still need another match for Lieutenant grrr.

[lost trellis]

Well, the comment I just made was literally deleted right before my eyes but you can go to Halopedia for the exacts of the terminals stuff at the notes and sources point. I even remember being apart of those discussions years back. To put it shortly "No one in the writers room for Halo 3 seemed to know what was going on with the terminals or cared." which sucks because lore is lore but there was an issue with writers being at each other's necks. Apparently Frank O'Connor ran stuff pass Joshen Staten but he was notoriously hands off for Halo 3 and other devs claim next to no one knew what was going on with the terminals so it sounds very likely that Franky was making them, got conflicting lore, asked his boss if it was okay to do this, the boss just hand waved it, Franky kindly stepped past the writers and made the terminals. Either way, the game literally has several moments of people flat out calling or relating humans to forerunners. It's weird seeing people act like this wasn't a retcon. It was, the only reason it's still talked about today is because people can't accept that for some reason.

It's probably best to say these days that since writers were at each other's necks during Halo 3's creation that Franky simply didn't want to add his head to the butting and just did something on his own since IIRC 343i was forming at that time and he wanted to carry the lore in that direction since writers were fussing. That makes alot of sense. IMO

[hearty rune]

will someone join general discussion n1

[lost trellis]

sure why though?

[hearty rune]

nobody will talk or join me

[lost trellis]

sure I'll join in a sec lol

[hearty rune]

ty

[lost trellis]

how dare you gojo!

[hearty rune]

what i couldn't hear you

[lost trellis]

oh really? well, my bad, I'll have to alert my mic then.

[hearty rune]

ok

sorry

[lost trellis]

nah you're good I just assumed you were a quiet person lol

[hearty rune]

do you want to try again

[lost trellis]

I'm good for now, my brother is screaming about other stuff on another server.

[hearty rune]

ok

[lost trellis]

dm me if you want to hang out and play or something.

[hearty rune]

how i just got it

[compact marlin]

Yeah, which is what I believe. The lore was never set in stone, so when 343 was formed, Frank finally put the matter to rest. Was there a retcon? You could argue yes, but since it was never set in stone and the only evidence we got was a rough translation from The Covenant and from someone who stabbed us in the back, twice. Even if you want to say they both were telling the truth: It doesn't mean they were actually Forerunner, but that they're species are so similar that by logic, they are Forerunners and the descendants. Like a Leopard and a Jaguar

[hearty rune]

what is the lore

[lost trellis]

Correct but also, that's a matter of mixing up intent with story. A writer can't just have their face superimposed onto the screen and say "HUMANS ARE FORERUNNERS! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!" even though Guilty Spark literally says so. It becomes weird to see people say that humans weren't never forerunners when even Gravemind calls MC "Child of my enemy." and further goes on about sins of the father and what not. In another series this stuff would be seen as concrete evidence but for some reason we have alot of dejectors. Writers clearly were fussing, Halo 3's campaign very clearly paints humans as forerunners or related to them in some large way, terminals say otherwise, and Halo 4 does as well. This is like the people who say Nameless King isn't Gywn's son. Like yes, you could certainly find a way to say he isn't but everything points to him being the lost son.

[compact marlin]

Child does not have to be related by blood, all that matters is that you are given the keys to the kingdom by the last ruler, they're choice makes you they're bloodline, related or not

[warm frost]

In Halo 4 there's humans that can't activate Forerunner technology.

[lost trellis]

True but that's what I'm talking about intent. There are a million examples I can give but my last comment that went off the grain got deleted when I did so, so, uh yeah. Not to go off on media literacy like some tiktok brat but you have to understand what is being said in a story. Like there are people who think the UNSC are the bad guys of Halo like we're in some kind of 40k like situation and they think that simply because not everyone in the UNSC is good. As if good guy factions can't do a single bad thing and still remain good. Again, loads of examples exist but I'm not looking to get my comment deleted again. To put it simply, I just hate this discussion because it was very clearly a retcon but people want to die on the hill that it wasn't in so many ways. I'm so tired of people in this community finding reasons to pointlessly defend 343i or Bungie on things that they shouldn't. Even people here are more worried about trying to stomp on our fellow community members then simply about talking kindly and concisely with people to express their points. Literally the moment I got on this discord, a guy was harassing me because I didn't know the exact details of a recent novel. These people suck and keep dragging Halo down.

[compact marlin]

I'm not saying there wasn't a retcon, there definitly was. I'm just giving my personal opinion to make the retcon make sense

Even if it wasn't set in stone, it still can be considered a retcon, and even if it wasn't: Halo 4's version definitely was and was for the better honestly

[lost trellis]

You're fine it's just tiring how toxic pretty much every side of the community has become over the years. Back in the day it was mostly just the PvP players but now the lore side is bad too. Been riding this train for 20 years now and there ain't a track no more, so I'm just waiting for the crash.

[warm frost]

I personally dislike the retcon, mainly because I think the ancient humans trope is more unique and interesting than the chosen one trope (which 343i basically did to the entire human race). I dislike the notion that it wasn't a retcon at all more than the retcon itself though. And I find it crazy how you can be immediately vilified for talking about how a retcon took place. Nobody hates Halo more than Halo fans lol

[compact marlin]

The thing is: The retcon isn't even that bad, yeah it was retconned but it doesn't really change anything honestly. It can still make the Prophets mad and declare war, I think what should be focused on more is can Halo gets it's fans back?

[lost trellis]

I wouldn't say Halo fans hate Halo, I'd say people are too connected to it so they drive their on personality through it's media. Prime example is the TV show.

[lost trellis]

I don't think it affects the in universe explaination but it affects the real world POV. Like I know that the Covenant are killing humans for an even dumber reason now lol. I'd much rather it be kept the way it was before. Also the irony of a holy war against your own gods is crazy thing to pull off and I respect that more then simply being chosen by realilty to herald realilty. IDK, feels too warhammer.

[warm frost]

The Forerunner/Human thing isn't even 343i's biggest or most egregious retcon. Most of the bad ones they did to their own lore.

[lost trellis]

What do you mean?

[warm frost]

Halo 5 was practically retconned by Infinite

[compact marlin]

No it wasn't

[lost trellis]

I get what they mean. It was made pointless, like Cortana dying was.

Why kill her if she's going to be in the next game. There is even the back and forth of if she is the real Cortana or not which is pointless because literally everyone thinks she's the real Cortana and everyone calls her Cortana. So, if no one knows then it doesn't really matter sadly.

[warm frost]

^

[celest heron]

I agree. whatever humans are, it's not advancing the story and it's mainly just for some lore backstory which I doubt casual players even care about. give us a good story an mp moving forward.

[compact marlin]

Most likely cause that wasn't the original plan, they had a whole different story with another villain then Microsoft forced them to write a whole new story cause they hated it

[latent acorn]

One thing we should keep in mind that Bungie was never into deep lore. They were more focused on the storyline in the games. If they were still doing Halo maybe they might’ve expanded and explored more on the lore between the humans and forerunners (I doubt it).

[lost trellis]

I disagree on the point of casuals not caring because the most casual Halo fans I knew of at the time hated the chance, those being my father and niece. Halo 4 took my neice away from the franchise which sucked because it was the best way we stayed connected. Even after my father passed, we never played together meaning anyone I had to play halo with IRL was gone. It also hurt my dad's feelings super hard that Halo 5 had no couch co-op. Never forgiving 343i for that.

[lost trellis]

yeah that's awhole different layer to the problems 343i had which IIRC is the problem Bungie foresaw. Getting a big MS hand shoved up your booty and puppetting you to do certain thing. I think the release of the Cortana AI IRL made them put her back in the game. IT SUCKS, IT SUCKS SO HARD!

[latent acorn]

Unfortunately Halo 5 was not retconned by Infinite. Don’t spread misinformation.

[compact marlin]

I was a casual fan, and I didn't even care about the past era, all I cared about was the timeline I was in, stopping the aliens, the Flood and seeing what happened in the next game. Did not care about the past, still don't care about the past

[celest heron]

chance or change? that's surprising if change cause most I knew of didn't really put two and two together.

[lost trellis]

That's fine but others certainly did care about that stuff, that's why the paid for the games. Oh and I meant change sorry for any confusion. I'm trying to do like 3 things at once.

[compact marlin]

It's cool

[lost trellis]

Honestly my biggest gripe with 343i is how they loved killing people off screen FOR SOME ASDISDS reason.

[compact marlin]

Now, there are a few things Bungie Fans are blaming 343 for that wasn't actually they're doing if I may explain

[lost trellis]

What do you mean? Like, things 343i didn't do?

[celest heron]

I still think Locke is alive

[lost trellis]

It's been so long, I don't care anymore about Locke. Black Team though....EHHE I'M A LITTLE MAD ABOUT BLACK TEAM!

[latent acorn]

I most likely the Locke is alive and is hiding somewhere on Zeta Halo along with Lasky

[lost trellis]

You promise? Is noble 6 with them too?

[warm frost]

The Forerunner change is what made me stop playing. I only played like half of Halo 4 when it was released. Stopped because none of it made any sense anymore. Sucks cause Halo was my whole life for a good long time there.

[compact marlin]

Sprint was added by Bungie in Halo 2, it's just turned off. It is also in Reach.

Loadouts were in Reach along with Bloom, which in a dev commentary was to get COD Fans to like Halo,

343 does not hate playable Elites, it's just there were lore reasons why they couldn't be playable

[latent acorn]

Don’t act silly. There is no conformation that Locke is dead. And unfortunately 6 is dead like literally dead.

[warm frost]

I didn't like how at the beginning the Human/Covenant war is back on and the reason is just explained away as "A lot can happen in 4 years." . . . Like what? What happened in that 4 years? Why doesn't the game tell us?

[lost trellis]

Okay this is some history bending. Sprint was in Halo 2 but clearly cut. Following this logic is flawed because that means we take everything that was cut as the word of god which gets hella messy. Loadouts, bloom and other COD stuff from Reach were all hated at the time. Reach just got good PR from the people who liked Reach over the years while people who hated it left the community like my little brother. (I've lost alot of family to this stuff ) Also lore be damned brother, do cool stuff!

[warm frost]

I'll say while playing MCC these days I wish the early games had sprint. Feels weird now to play an FPS that doesn't have sprint. Halo CE, 2, and 3, only feel comfortable on a controller because shift doesn't do anything lol.

[compact marlin]

The Human/Covenant War wasn't back on. Jul Mamdala's Faction was an Ex-Covenant Splinter Group that just didn't want to forgive Humanity and went crazy and lied to his entire army

[lost trellis]

This only hurts IMO because 343i set up a war between the brutes and the elites and they somehow made the UNSC do a fully recovery becoming "THE BIG DAWGS NOW!" They should've kept with the first story of elites vs brutes.

[lost trellis]

Again I get what they're saying. It's still effectively UNSC vs Covenant. Thel even directly calls them the Covenant in Halo 5 too so, yeah, it's like the Locust returning in Gears 5. Like, we get it, but move on TC.

[compact marlin]

If people are leaving due to gameplay changes? Then that is a terrible excuse cause Halo needs to evolve, if it doesn't then it will get left behind like History has always shown

[latent acorn]

The Human-Covenant war was over at the end of 3. The Covenant fought in 4 were remiments of splinter faction remnants.

[lost trellis]

Yes but, when The Arbiter calls them the Covenant in Halo 5, it gets muddy.

[compact marlin]

Right, which Cortana and Chief didn't know. We know cause we have the context, the characters don't

[lost trellis]

That's just voting with your wallet. Something can evolve in the wrong way, just look at Halo 4's MP.

[warm frost]

I understand there's a reason for it. My issue is with the games presentation of explanation. "A lot can happen in 4 years" isn't good enough. This kind of issue unfortunately extends to other 343i entries. A lot of their lore is barely comprehensible without looking at external media like books. Star Wars has a similar problem where in order to understand all of Mandalorian you need to have watched Book of Boba Fett. If your game or show requires consuming other media then unfortunately your story isn't very good.

[compact marlin]

Yeah but bloom and sprint are two most nitpick things ever

[compact marlin]

Please read my comment above

[latent acorn]

That’s because Jul’s Covenant still view the Forerunners as gods and no longer believe the Great Journey from the Prophets. Each splinter faction has different views

[lost trellis]

For good reason IMO. People contridict themselves on them too by saying "Well MC is a super soldier so he should be able to sprint!" but also he's a super soldier he shouldn't really have to deal with recoil. This is what I was talking about before. People don't want a better Halo or community, they want to seem superior to another.

[lost trellis]

I'm aware but if you just play the games, none of this information is conveyed expect that Jul's faction is the Covenant as spoken by the Arbiter who says it's finally dying in Halo 5. If you're an ultra casual who does nothing but play the games that's confusing which is why so many people hate Halo 5's story.

[compact marlin]

Wasn't confusing to me and I didn't read the lore till later

[warm frost]

Again, I understand the characters didn't know. But the player needs to know otherwise they're going to go "Huh? What? This doesn't make any sense."

[celest heron]

you mean two things that greatly affect gameplay? well of course they'd be.

[lost trellis]

That's fine but the biggest gripe of Halo 5 is how confusing it's campaign was without external content. You can be one of the few people who're fine without it but loads of people sadly weren't

[latent acorn]

On casual fans, yes. But for deep lore fans who have read the books and novels including the comics would know more on the stories.

[compact marlin]

I was fine with it, cause instead of complaining like most, I paused and sat for a moment to think how it made sense and came to the realization that Halo isn't black and white. People do know they fight Elites and Grunts in they're first mission as The Arbiter right? If it happened once, why can't it happen again?

[lost trellis]

Yep and they shouldn't be the only ones in on the loop when it comes to a main story release. If someone who has played Halo's 1-4 don't get what's going on in 5, that's a failure of narrative story telling when outer context is needed and even then many things arne't understood which SUCKS SO MUCH HARDER! Legit we still don't even know why Warden Eternal can't just deploy all of his bodies and destroy everything.

You literally can't even know what the Domain truly is without external content. There are people out there who think it's just Forerunner internet because of Halo 5.

[warm frost]

To be fair, there's a pretty lengthy cutscene before The Arbiter explaining how you're fighting heretics. So the player understands what's happening. People who skipped cutscenes were very confused what was going on back in the day when that mission happened.

[compact marlin]

I was one who skipped the cutscenes, I thought they were traitors without the context, keep in mind that I'm not very bright and I was able to figure that out

[lost trellis]

Rude to self deprecate!

[compact marlin]

I was giving context so people didn't think I was lying. I'm disabled and was able to put two and two together, at six years old

[lost trellis]

Still though, also you'd be very surprised on stupid many people are. I was in the military, I've seen people struggle to grasp things so basic I wanted to swallow my own barrel because I had to trust them with keeping me alive.

[compact marlin]

And I find it sad that I am able to figure stuff without looking up while people that don't have my disabilities can't

[lost trellis]

Hey people are stubborn, hard headed and lack many other skills. That's why games have flashing lights to guide people to every objective these days. Though TBH I was replaying Morrowind not too long ago and it was a bit annoying to not have a guide. If it wasn't for The Boots of Blinding Speed, I'd have gone far too bored with the traveling in that game.

[warm frost]

I think I've gotten dumber over the years. I was replaying some old games and wondered how the hell I even figured anything out when there was so little lack of direction compared to nowadays.

[compact marlin]

I just do trial and error until I win

[lost trellis]

EXACTLY! Convenience has damned many.

[compact marlin]

Anyway, I have to go to bed. If you all would love to chat and debate tomorrow, I'd love to honestly cause I am having so much fun. Seriously, I'd love to do this again tomorrow

[warm frost]

If there's one thing I'm good for it's an argument

[lost trellis]

and I, have to hell at people on the Helldivers reddit for messing up this attack on Cyberstan. OMG I HATE THOSE FREAKS OVER THERE! Peace

[latent acorn]

I had some trial and error on when playing Snes games back then like Zelda: Link to the Past, it took me some time to figure out the puzzles and areas (even getting lost at times) I need to go as I started have a better understanding on what to do

[compact marlin]

Debate, not argument

[warm frost]

No it isn't (lol)

[compact marlin]

Oh, It's a joke, okay

[warm frost]

Queue the Monty Python Argument Clinic sketch

[compact marlin]

Okay, night fellow Halo friends

[crystal iron]

if you woke up tomorrow and saw halo 5 on the mcc on pc would you play it ?

[warm frost]

Me personally, probably not

[crystal iron]

i would probably only touch warzone firefight tbh

[warm frost]

Although I am a completionist, so if suddenly achievements were added then I'd feel obligated. So I guess I would actually. I wouldn't enjoy it though.

[crystal iron]

fair

[warm frost]

Halo 3 custom games are still where it's at for me. Love all the ridiculous maps and game modes

[crystal iron]

warzone is like the only thing going for that game , i just wish you were able to unlock weapons without paying

like if it wasnt so micro transactiony i would probably run around with op weapons

been forever since i last actually played it , must have been like 2017

anyone excited for the remake for combat evolve?

i hear people say its going to suck

[warm frost]

I'm excited but skeptical. I'm not a very big fan of 343i games or lore. But Halo CE was a fantastic game, so I'm hoping they can do it justice. I will pick it up and happily play some co-op with my friends.

The change in art style from 4 & 5 to infinite is encouraging they'll do the visuals justice. And I'm sure the multiplayer will be good.

Nah, Reach was Bungie. Frankie did write most of Reach, but 343's first foray was CE Anniversary

[coarse dagger]

343 worked on map packs and post launch support for Reach, including the title update

This is Discord

[warm frost]

Lot of children enjoy Halo, and I imagine there could be lots of children as part of this Discord.

[coarse dagger]

OK, we'll we do here, per our #rules-and-guidelines

[nova basalt]

But this is halo, not pokemon

[bleak steppe]

Yes! I love Halo 5

[austere current]

I'm curious how to get sp fast on MCC. Tried firefight but nobody wants to do score attack...

[austere current]

Same! I miss my xbox one just for that game. But, here's to hoping they'll release it on steam one of these years lol

[bleak steppe]

I played Halo 5 and Battlefield 4 almost every single day on my Xbox One lol

[solid canopy]

.....you do know that in Halo 4 when you first activate a terminal Cortana directly explains the Domain as an "off world data respiratory"

[lost trellis]

exactly, that's what I'm talking about, you can't know what the domain truly is without external content.

[solid canopy]

The failing isn't that you need outer context to understand Halo 5's story. Most of the media released in the lead-up to Halo 5 was stand alone- Nightfall, Old Blood, Hunters in the Dark, Last Light, and even Hunt the Truth didn't really factor in to 5's story

You can go through all of those things and it doesn't suddenly make the story click into place

The only media that really helps is Escalation, but that is only because it wraps up Spartan Ops' story that they had to compromise as a comic

5's storytelling is not great. Bad pacing paired with too many characters, exposition dumps that tell instead of show, and a gameplay structure that more often than not feels like you are just shooting at things for the sake of it- but it isn't because you need to read 5 books to understand it

[solid canopy]

I mean, how else would you describe it? That is a fairly accurate, albeit simplified explaination of it

[glacial tartan]

Do the challenges! There is a set amount of spartan points unlockable per week. You can do a good amount the challenges in 1 hour per week 🙂

You do get 1 SP per level (and there are 330 levels) but it takes longer and longer per level. So for the first 100ish levels its pretty quick, but after that it slows way down.

[austere current]

Is there a mode that's fun and gives lots of xp or no?

[glacial tartan]

Depends on how much you like PvP, personally I played a lot of Firefight Doubles, Sniperfight and Rocketfight.

If you’re not a big PvPer but still want the PvP challenges I’d do action sack.

XP per game is pretty universal now, they used to be different but you should be good playing whichever title you prefer.

[austere current]

Ah okie i appreciate it ^^

Well, maybe btb is the only one that's not xp heavy?

[solid canopy]

https://www.gdcvault.com/play/1017935/The-Design-of-New-Enemies

I wish more Halo fans would watch these. Very informative stuff

Also very funny seeing them talking about player responces to Halo 3 and how many fans felt tired of fighting the Covenant yet again

Also also- them deciding to make the Elites the primary Covenant enemy instead of the Brutes because they wanted to avoid it feeling like "more of the same" puts things into perspective quite well

The entire narrative of "343i hated Halo" is total BS, and these developer talks are proof of that. It really does show that the people making these games did have great reverence for what came before

[radiant sundial]

the only reason that people say "343 hates halo and is trying to kill it" is because they are too busy drowning themselves in nostalgia and expecting the next thing to be the same as the last and never change

[solid canopy]

That and pointing at that one Frank O'Conner quote people love to take out of context

[civic sundial]

If 343 hated Halo, they'd have just not made any Halo games

Like, I think people don't understand that if nobody wanted to continue Halo, they'd have just ended the franchise

[cyan forum]

That logic doesnt work tho, theyre getting paid to continue halo whether they like it or not

This is common in EVERY form of the entertainment industry

[civic sundial]

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying

[cyan forum]

Am i?

[civic sundial]

Certain people love to push this idea that everyone from the very top to the very bottom of 343 hated Halo. If that was the case, they'd have just not made any Halo games

[cyan forum]

Well the people at the top clearly wanted to continue its success but wasnt it said 343 hired people that hated halo?

343 or MS?

[civic sundial]

Like, yes, there are people who have worked on Halo games who are not fans of the franchise, but that's not what the people who push the "343 hates Halo" narrative mean when they talk about people at the company disliking Halo, they are pushing misinformation to try and make it sound like there was some grand plan to destroy the series

[cyan forum]

Ah well thats different

But its also not crazy to think theres some correlation between people who disliked Halo working on Halo games that get met with a mixed reception

Because there absolutely is

[civic sundial]

Correlation is not causation

[latent acorn]

This has been mentioned many times. Many took it way out of context too seriously, even stckr brought this up that fans took it out of context probably by a fault.

[civic sundial]

Like, ice cream sells well in summer and people show symptoms of hey fever more in summer. Does this mean ice cream causes hey fever? No

[civic sundial]

Aye, which makes it all the more annoying when we're over 10 years from when that quote was first spoken and people are still pushing it as if it's a glimpse into some grand scheme to ruin the franchise

[cyan forum]

I think theres a case to be made here. From halo 4 embracing call of duty style loadouts to the later games' delayed prioritization of legacy casual and pve modes

[civic sundial]

They didn't delay things because of a secret hatred of the franchise

Like, please stop making claims like this

And Halo 4 was continuing on from what Reach laid the foundations of. Which is loadout based gamemodes

The natural next step was to go with custom loadouts players can make, regardless of it's something CoD has or not

Not to mention multiple other games by that point also had custom loadouts. Are we to claim all those games were also "embracing Call of Duty"?

[cyan forum]

Never said that at all, i said they changed course and priorities because the developers didnt like halo. Im not saying they tried to destroy it, im saying they tried to change it

[civic sundial]

You're making claims that decisions were made because people hated the series

[cyan forum]

And it didnt work. They had to go back to basics for halo 5 but continued to delay or cut casual features which got progressively worse with halo infinite

[cyan forum]

Yeah, the developers hated halo

[civic sundial]

Like, I don't know how to explain to you that you are taking two things as proof of something when it isn't

[cyan forum]

Well i think youre getting my own views confused with the views of others

[civic sundial]

My dude, you have said multiple times the same tired old line of "the developers hated Halo and changed things for the worse"

[latent acorn]

That is subjective and out of context

[civic sundial]

This is not me being confused over your views at all

[cyan forum]

I dont believe 343 or microsoft wanted the franchise to fail, they wanted it to succeed but by appealing to people who essentially didnt like the franchise or at the very least never found it interesting

Hence why they hired people that hated halo, to take their feedback

[cyan forum]

Isnt this an actual quote? That is not subjective, that is objective

[civic sundial]

People take the quote out of context, which includes you

Because you've taken it out of context multiple times to make a blanket statement about the entire company

[cyan forum]

Then what is the context

[civic sundial]

Like, you claimed legacy stuff wasn't added because people hated Halo

[cyan forum]

No, i claimed it wasnt added because said people who hated halo switched priorities

Big difference. Youre again confusing my views with the views of others

[civic sundial]

Don't start claiming I'm confused

[cyan forum]

I asked what the context is

What is the true meaning of "we hired people who hated halo"?

[latent acorn]

If fans had payed more close attention in context then there wouldn’t be “We hired fans who hate Halo” it was due to misinterpretation and misunderstanding on fans part, even stckr brought that up at one point.

[cyan forum]

Okay but what is the context then?

I asked this like 3 times so far

[civic sundial]

This is the full quote;
"We had people who we hired who hated Halo because of 'X,'" says O'Connor. "But what that really meant was, 'I feel like this game could be awesome because of 'Y input' that I'm going to bring into it. I want to prove it, and I'm passionate about proving it.' So we ended up with a bunch of people who were genuinely passionate about the product. That is a huge advantage, and that helped in hiring and forming our team."

People take that first sentence and chop off everything said after the word Halo because it doesn't fit the idea of 343 being created to destroy the franchise they love to push

[cyan forum]

Ngl the second bit just sounds like exactly what ive been saying

They took the input of people who just didnt find the previous halo experiences interesting, so they made changes and shifted priorities, came up with ideas that probably wouldnt have been made by bungie

[solid canopy]

Most developers aren't going to apply to work on a series you hate

[cyan forum]

Tbf the quote only really explains why halo 4 in particular turned out the way it did

[solid canopy]

Fun fact! The decison to include some of those.features were the result of fan feedback

[cyan forum]

Cuz 5 and infinite feel more like they tried to appeal to legacy halo fans again, albeit with remaining compromises and changes to appeal to non fans

[cyan forum]

Yes, thank god for the community

[solid canopy]

So the whole narrative of "They were chasing trends" is kind of nonsense when it was more a case of "They were gaging fan interest and responces"

Based on the GDC talks there did seem to be a need to try and shake things up or else they would run the risk of growing stale and losing interest with both general audiences and fans

[cyan forum]

Wasnt the decision to resort to loot boxes and advanced movement mechanics literally them chasing trends? Other shooters at that exact same time period were doing it too lol

[solid canopy]

No

The enhanced mobility seen in Halo 5 came from prototyping done after Halo 4 that saw a lot of early success

The lootboxes were a compromise made to allow for free content updates rather than dividing the player base with Map Packs.

[cyan forum]

And the loot boxes? And what about the decision to go live service with infinite?

[solid canopy]

343i had always been doing live services since Halo 4

[cyan forum]

Alright well trend chasing or not, none of it worked out in the end. Its STILL not working out

[solid canopy]

There were new Spartan Ops episodes released over the course of three months after Halo 4, Halo 5 had a year and a half of free content drops, and Infinite well, went free to play with seasonal updates

Hell, Halo 5 was gonna be a lot more ambitous with its multiplayer mode with a centeralized Infinity hub

[solid canopy]

It hasn't been an outright failure either

[cyan forum]

Yay?

[solid canopy]

Each of their games have seen success on different fronts and it would be wrong to suggest so

[solid canopy]

Infinite was also planning to have a much bigger live service with what was reffered to as the "Road to the Ring" which would lead up right up to launch of the proper campaign

[warm sedge]

Hi

[solid canopy]

Also worth mentioning while I'm at it that Halo 5's empahsis on competitive play was the correct call to make after Halo Reach and Halo 4 leaned far more into casual and social play

Not like 5 also didn't have a ton of social modes and features

[cyan forum]

Shame it all took a while to be added

And seemingly nothing was learned for Infinites release 🤷‍♀️

[solid canopy]

Yeah, but it was added fairly frequently (can't same the same for Infinite)

Forge I think took three months to release and it was well worth it

Infinite was less a case of "not learning from your mistakes" and more so "the result of mismangement and clawing your way to the finish line"

Also a global pandemic throwing a dozen monkey-wrenches into the mix

[cyan forum]

I mean they released the game in its barebones state

I think that is certainly a case of not learning from your mistakes

[autumn forum]

Honestly Halo was the one game that I and my big brother in france both play when we have our xboxes

the question is why halo 5 being the only major halo title to not on PC?

[civic sundial]

I see allot of people omitting this when it comes to the discussion of not just Halo, but plenty of games which released within the 2021 to 2022 window were affected by the pandemic

[civic sundial]

Halo 5 released just before Microsoft decided to start releasing games on PC again and unlike MCC, there was never really as big of a push for it to be brought to PC. Plus, if I recall, allot of stuff in Halo 5 is tied to it running at 60fps as much as possible, which would likely need reworking to make work at higher framerates like 120fps that some people love to go for with their PCs

[autumn forum]

so like basically rewriting and reoptimizing all the stuff just to make it run 120fps again, but then resources lack so they kinda neglected that idea

[civic sundial]

There's probably more to it than that but they'd likely need to dedicate a full team to making sure it works

And that's not even getting into stuff like how they'd likely need to revamp the console version if we did get a PC version of Halo 5. Since I doubt they'd be able to sell a game where the primary way of obtaining armour customisation is via REQ packs

And well, the customisation system itself is pretty limited in 5. Since it's helmets, visors, body and the basic armour colours

[warm sedge]

Yo

[left snow]

You could also think of advanced movement as moving away from old stale trends.

[cyan forum]

I never hated it so yeh probably

[left snow]

I remember there was a bit of fuss at the time on how impressive Halo 5 was hitting 60fps on the current consoles. It required a fair bit of engine trickery. And there probably isn't the Blam knowledge / expertise left at the studio to get that running for PC.

[cyan forum]

But at the same time i dont love that it kind of destroys classic halo's slower paced combat and decision making. I think there was a way to change things up without turning halo into a speedy movement based shooter

[civic sundial]

Aye. And that would mean they'd need basically reverse engineer the game to make a PC port

[cyan forum]

For comparison, new Doom also added advanced movement mechanics but it worked better there because classic Doom was already very fast and frantic

[lost trellis]

This discussion reminded me how I was 10 years ago. I legit was dead set that there had to be people inside do 343i sabotaging them because it just seemed impossible to think they took so many Ls. Back to back like they did. Like changing Halo 5s story was the nail in the coffin for me. Someone had to be a corporate spy telling thane that the ai revolt was better because there was no way honest hard working people thought that in my mind.

[digital crag]

guys im trying to play halo mcc with someone they invited me but its not letting me join him can someone help?

[brazen cliff]

Afaik it's just buggy. Trying having the host leave whatever matchmaking they are in and restart.

[digital crag]

we already did that like 1000000000000 times

[brazen cliff]

Try changing the host?

[digital crag]

we already tried that too

we cant invite each other

[inland minnow]

its better to post things like this in #1075989764026675210

[hearty rune]

what is the best halo to yall

[rotund zenith]

if youre on steam restarting the pc and verifying files seemed to magically work for me even though it didnt find anything missing

[gray crag]

i would say it was even worse because not only did they not learn from their mistakes but also took double the time to do it lol. People couldve almost finished a PhD program before 343 released a game that had nothing in it

[compact marlin]

The slipspace engine was a pain to work with

[gray crag]

no one forced them to do that it was their own project as well

[cyan forum]

My point exactly. Whether it was mismanaged or halted by covid, they didnt have to release it. They didnt have to make the first impression seriously lacking

I remember when they released the mp early and literally everyone was thinking "they'll release the rest of the game next month right?"

[gray crag]

GTA 6 has been delayed so long and im not mad at all because i know when it comes out that game is gonna be a bangerrr

[cyan forum]

"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"

The guy who said this makes super mario games btw

So he kinda knows what hes talking about

[gray crag]

i would want them to delay halo CE but then they would miss the 25th annniversary. Which is honestly a big reason why they are even making halo CE to began with

and not getting a game for the 25th would be such an L

they need another 7 years for another halo game lmao

[cyan forum]

Ive seen franchises fall because they forced themselves to release a game on a milestone year of the franchise

I honestly wouldn't mind getting CER on the 26th anniversary. Apparently theres rumors its coming out as early as this summer tho

[gray crag]

yeah thats been confirmed and its kinda scary because tht could be like 4 months away

a lot of credible sources have reported it and i would say its almost guaranteed because they dont wanna release next to GTA

[cyan forum]

Oof maybe its for the best then

A basic shooter with only singleplayer against GTA, thats gonna screw them over so hard

[coarse dagger]

Nothing has been confirmed with regards to release dates. Anything being thrown around right now is absolutely not credible in any sense

[civic sundial]

Posting allot doesn't make one a credible source

Allot of people speculated about Halo coming to PS5

[left snow]

That quote is older than Halo itself.

And from a time when games couldn't be patched or updated.

Not overly applicable today.

[cyan forum]

Just because things can be patched doesnt mean developers should be more careless than before

[coarse dagger]

People have been rumoring Halo to come to PS for years now, this isn't something new

[cyan forum]

My job has loads of new ways to prevent human error but we are still encouraged to not make those mistakes

[left snow]

I believe his track record is reasonable.

But his words in this case were "tentatively looking at"...

[left snow]

Yes and no.

Older games used to have cut content. Whole levels even. To make deadlines.

Some risk is worthwhile.

But yes. You are right. Infinite's launch was a dog's breakfast. And HS simply can't make that mistake again.

[cyan forum]

Here's to Hello 7: The Return of Chef John🍷

[compact marlin]

And also people keep forgetting that this is just a remake for a game, not a new Halo game, and also a game with a bad launch can become good.

Star Wars Battlefront 2.

Gotham Knights.

Halo MCC.

Halo Infinite.

Arma Reforger

[left snow]

I like checking in on the "leakers". Eg. Mr Rebs.

You have to take everything with a grain of salt. But at least they are generally getting to be positive.

And it's been 3 and half months since we've heard from HS.

[cyan forum]

I still play infinite for the firefight

Hate it when it puts us in a multiplayer map tho

[compact marlin]

Really?

[cyan forum]

Uh yeah

[gray crag]

halo studios i highly doubt will release next to GTA 6. They would be insane to do that. ITs either an extension or summer 2026 because all microsoft cares about is that money

[compact marlin]

Okay, but this isn't just with Halo, this is with a lot of games that have bad launches

[cyan forum]

Im talking about firefight

Sorry

[compact marlin]

Oh

[gray crag]

100%

but with halos 25th anniversary they gotta do something for it

imo they got their hands tied. cant release on the actual anniversary cause of GTA 6, cant extend it because of the backlash, and cant release a half baked game

[glacial tartan]

Why do they HAVE to do something for the 25th anniversary

[gray crag]

throw in some 25 year anniversary cat ears and ill take it lmao

[glacial tartan]

For Halo 2s 20 year they didnt do anything, for MCCs 10 year they didnt do anything, for Halo 5s 10 year they didnt do anything

Im all for the timing lining up but if they push it to 2027 its not like it would move the needle

[gray crag]

i think because they are hyping up this 25 year annivsary a lot and they have said a big reason they are remaking halo CE to began with is because of the anniversary

[compact marlin]

Yeah, a lot of people keep forgetting that it is more to celebrate Xbox then Halo. For Halo Studios, they want to celebrate Halo, for Microsoft, they want to celebrate they're 25th anniversary

[gray crag]

true

they still gotta make those 3 new extra missions i think as well

[compact marlin]

Which they're probably close to finishing if they were able to show off a demo

[latent acorn]

It’s going take more time to made then being ready for summer release. It likely (pending) may come out between September or October of this year

[cyan forum]

I know this is an extremely minor thing that nobody really cares about but i really hope we get some CE themed merch after the release of the game

[gray crag]

yeah that would be cool

[cyan forum]

Figures specifically

A high quality import figure of the chief is completely overdue

[gray crag]

i think im not totally sure but i remember watching the demo and with the silent cartographer they said they showed that mission because that is the one they have the most completed, so if they havent finished the original missions i doubt they are far on making the new ones

[cyan forum]

Peak?

[civic sundial]

They most likely have the team working on the remake split into smaller teams to work on multiple levels at once. They're not focusing on one mission at a time

[coarse dagger]

Demos are branched off in advance of any scheduled release/publication. Work on the rest of the game will have already progressed significantly since branching

That was also a good few months ago now

[plucky flicker]

I didn't know there were some Halo pieces performed by London Philharmonic Orchestra.

https://open.spotify.com/track/6EwKf0ogNXUVB7GyzUReNo?si=1NmZsROQQ1KsgjCXSCljcA

https://open.spotify.com/track/3q81uuMbxNCZ3QrgR1BqE2?si=M6vp6j2cTuSJrTChGuC6Dg

I'm hoping the upcoming Halo concert to be streamed, or recorded and published at the least.

[solid canopy]

Me too

Tickets are all bought out and I'd love to get to see the performance

I hope we get an even balance of songs from each game

I especially want to see some Halo Wars rep

https://www.artstation.com/artwork/JXDxm

I do kind of wonder if Halo would gel with some Metroid style HUD elements like they were exploring here

[round forge]

If they planning on having you go to any of the other Covenant home worlds in the next few games I would love to see them take some notes from the designs of the Chozo stuff from Metroid.

[solid canopy]

How so?

Like, what specifically about the Chozo would you want to see carried over?

[sacred lava]

I hope halo starts becoming a rated m game again and sticks to all the original stuff 😭

[gray crag]

i do too. The rated T thing to appeal to the broader audience just takes away from the atmophere and takes away from the intensity and seriousness of some situations

[celest heron]

hmm, like h4 cause that was rated m?

[lime robin]

I hope it's sold after the concert as a CD like the times of auld

[solid canopy]

I am desperate for the performance to live streamed

[plucky flicker]

Halo TV show was TV-MA.

So it's not really like they want to tone everything down. 🤔

[solid canopy]

Halo 5 and Infinite didn't really have much to justify the M raiting

You can point to the language being tonned down a bit, or lack of blood, yes- though I'd also waiger that had to do with engine limitations made to achieve 60 FPS- but also remember how Halo CE-4 had
•Pools of blood pouring out of characters
•Gory Flood designs
•Dead citizens laid across city streets
•Elites with their insides scrambled
•Doctor Tilson's body being composed layer by layer up close
•Dead Marines pinned to walls
•The Gravemind (in H2A specifically)

[left snow]

One of my favourites is by the Danish Symphony Orchestra.

https://youtu.be/vJUmx_bSolI?si=9UVW1t08vlm5Ypf6

[plucky flicker]

I think everyone's seen that at this point.

I like it, although not the biggest fan of certain parts.

[left snow]

It's the enthusiasm of the conductor that always get me. 😄

[plucky flicker]

She's actually a famous videogame composer.

[solid canopy]

Y'know, I kind of wish they kept doing the Roman Numerals for the anniversary years

The 10th Anniversary logo always looked pretty cool would've like to have seen "XV", "XX", "XXV"

[cyan forum]

Is anyone else slightly disappointed that the CE remake is just gonna use the original ost instead of a remade one?

[compact marlin]

You are really desperate to make sure the remake fails huh?

My rank is captain, how many games of Firefight Heroic would I have to play to reach Hero?

[civic sundial]

Where did you hear this?

[cyan forum]

The demo?

[civic sundial]

The company making a game doesn't decide the rating. They can aim for a rating sure, but I doubt that the intent with Halo was to go for a teen rating. The ESRB, GRA or other ratings boards (depending on where you are) are the ones who decide the ratings

[cyan forum]

Unless the music that played is yet another placeholder

This doesnt upset me btw, i like the original music. Im just a tad disappointed we're not getting a new take on "under cover of night"

[gray crag]

halo 5 had 0 human blood in the game and infinite had none either or was extremely reduced. They also completely toned down harsh language in the games released by 343. I know they didnt give themselves the T rating but of course they were going for it to broaden the audience for the game and reducing the stuff they did almost guaratees it

[lost trellis]

Honestly I feel like CER is doing that itself. As someone whose spent his entire adult life working in the military and data analytics, I'm extremely used to doing random BS for the sake of it but just wanting to know the context. Often times with both, you'll get some BS answer so you just have to sus it out of what's really going on and the reasons I've seen people say CER needs to happen fires my alarm bells. Obviously we as consumers have no idea what's going on behind the scenes but I've been the guy whose job it is to look into the literal science of this kind of stuff and how it relates to wants and desires. Eh, I cut this post down because it dragged on but TLDR; My spidey senses feel weird for CER. I don't see how it's an optimal thing to make which with company's optimization is always key. Either someone at Halo Studios is just using everyone to make their dream of a full CE remake for themselves which IMO I love the idea of that or there's a huge part of the painting we're missing. I hope it isn't more background shenanigans like what seemingly kept happening with 343i.

[gray crag]

My point in saying that is that i hope they dont tone down stuff they did in the past because good luck creating the horror flood atmosphere in CE with T rating tactics it will just ruin a great opportunity for the game and honestly be worst than the original

[civic sundial]

Halo has allot less harsh language than you remember. And if going for a T rating was somehow the best way to broaden an audience, why are other franchises, such as Resident Evil, still thriving and gaining new fans when they're not going for that rating?

[civic sundial]

Where are you getting that Campaign Evolved is T? Last I checked, which was a few seconds ago, it's not been rated yet

And what do you mean by "T rating tactics"?

[gray crag]

im saying i hope they dont make it T since all 343 games minus halo 4 have been T

also i agree with you halo doesnt have much bad language but the ones that were there 343 made sure to get rid of. its a little suspicious no?

[compact marlin]

And, a lot of people forget that Halo 1 can feel T-rated, especially if you play on Easy Mode and you get PG-13 type quotes

[coarse dagger]

Reminder that the ESRB rating for games aren't the only ratings body, and ratings and how they are handled has changed and adapted drastically over the last 20 years.
https://gist.github.com/stickerboy/d1a87f3f595ee9f462bf9eda3bd890da

[civic sundial]

I think you're looking too much into things

[gray crag]

probably

[cyan forum]

I miss the cursing tbh

[compact marlin]

So Infinite is rated M but only in certain countries?

[civic sundial]

If the original Mortal Kombat came out today, I imagine it would have a much lower rating than what it got back then

[compact marlin]

I play on Easy Mode and I hardly hear cursing

So, it's normal for Easy Mode Players like me

[coarse dagger]

Yep, and if you look at UK ratings - they have not changed since CE released

[compact marlin]

Thank you

[civic sundial]

If I recall, the only Halos in the UK with different ratings are the two mobile games

[compact marlin]

And if even if it wasn't, you can still make things dark with T-Rated games

[plucky flicker]

Me. I've been talking about this ever since people started taking about the remake. 🙎

[cyan forum]

No doubt theyre avoiding making a new soundtrack to avoid scrutiny like CEA's did. Shame cuz i think CEA has some pretty cool tracks

[coarse dagger]

The audio is being remastered for the remake, that's about all we know so far. There may be new pieces, there may not be

[plucky flicker]

I have some hope - since they have to compose orginal soundtrack for the prequel missions.

Who do you think they should hire? I personally think Neil Davidge

[distant plank]

When exactly did 343 take over halo?

[celest heron]

hero is a little over 9 million so some math with your average xp that you get over time should figure that out.

[coarse dagger]

They formed in 2007 and formally took over in 2011

[compact marlin]

Okay

[rotund zenith]

should get stephen rippy back on, his stuff for aom and aoe3 was peak and he 1000% understood the assignment when making halo wars soundtrack

[winged falcon]

I still to this day have mixed feelings on the gravity hammer rework.

[sullen owl]

Lay it out there, what's mixed about your feelings?

[winged falcon]

Like it’s one of those “I like it when I use it weapons but hate it when some else has it”

[heavy geode]

Halo wars soundtrack being the 2nd best in the franchise is a hill I will die on

[winged falcon]

Halo is no stranger to overpowered weapons and some should stay and some should go but idk. I can like the direction they took with it but it is definitely one of the more annoying weapons.

[sullen owl]

How would you change it? Is it mostly a counter-play problem for you?

[uneven bison]

And it’s one id die with you on

[heavy geode]

[solid canopy]

Idk, Halo CE can be pretty gnarly

Elites with their insides torn out, Flood forms with exposed ribcages, gallons and gallons of blood, Keyes' skull getting caved in, the insane Marine, ect.

[left snow]

I'd rework the hammer so that it has to hit the ground to work - and it mainly affects enemies that are standing on the ground.

So no more mid air swings.

And a well timed jump can alleviate the damage taken.

But make the area of damage spectacular. Really send things (that are grounded at the time) flying!

Maybe a slower swing and longer reset?

[brave carbon]

How many quitting reports until a person gets temp banned? And how long is temp ban?

[brave carbon]

I believe it is already this. I have not even damaged players because they are not on the ground next to me when I swing hammer

[glacial tartan]

What game? There are no quitting reports that automatically lead to bans though.

[brave carbon]

Infinite. There really should be. The amount of people who quit is quite excessive. Really ruins the rest of the match for teammates. I just played 5 matches and only had one where someone didn't quit.

[brave carbon]

Should be two within a certain amount of time or games. People quit as soon as they are down in objective 0-1. And they can just keep doing it without repercussions? We can do/be better.

[celest heron]

no, if you quit enough games you'll automatically get a temp ban.

[left snow]

I'm all for penalising the Hell out of quitters. They need to ferment in lengthy bans. But I keep getting told that is not the way.

So, instead, we should openly reward those who don't quit. There should by XP bonuses for completing consecutive games - which should slowly accumulate and then get set back to zero if/when you quit out of a game. You should have a little gold star above your gamertag if you complete a certain % of matches.

And the matchmaker should preferentially put quitters into the same matches - so that they can quit on each other to their heart's content. Fester in their own cess pool of misery.

Oops. Sorry - what I should say instead is that players like me, who play games out, should preferentially be put into games together.

[brisk heron]

I Had A Entire Team Quit On Me From Tactical Slayer Cause They Was Against One Player That Was Cheating Hard Core That They Didn't Want To Put Up With Again.

I Been Wondering If The New Halo CE Will Have Drop In & Drop Out Support In The Middle Of The Campaign

As Well A Player Search Interface Similar To Gamespy Arcade With Tools Like Block, Kick, Invites, Mute Specific Players From Host

[plucky flicker]

By 2010, I think. They worked on Halo: Reach to an extent.

[plucky flicker]

I would be interested in getting Gordy Haab to score it. But Stephen Rippy works too. In fact, I saw once on his channel under the comments he insinuated he's open to work.

[plucky flicker]

Halo 4 comes second.

[solid canopy]

It is damn good

I love Insignifica/All Sloppy No Joe

[plucky flicker]

Gordy Haab is the one if you want to intimate John Williams. I think that'd be a hit or miss for Halo fans...

[coarse owl]

hey, does anyone wana play some co-op halo or some halo 3 forge? I'm on mcc pc
don't have anyone to play with): I used to play with my brother but he's in prison.

[sullen kiln]

If you're looking for other Spartans to join you in battle, check out our LFGs:

#lfg-competitive – For ranked/competitive matchmaking
#lfg-social – For social/casual matchmaking
#lfg-campaign - For campaign co-op
#lfg-forge - For map/mode building and testing
#lfg-customs - For custom games
#lfg-other – For firefight, spartan ops, etc
#lfg-español – Para jugadores hispanohablantes en cualquier categoría de juego
#lfg-hcs-scrims-or-teams – To help you find a team or secure some scrims

Don't forget to check out #lfg-and-voice-chat to learn about the !lfg bot, how to use it, and how to create your own voice channels.

[distant plank]

what is the difference between original printings of the books and the reprints?

[celest heron]

sounds good, but there are also people who crash out of games so that would likely be an issue.

[covert hornet]

Is halo in a good spot or are we cooked

[sleek hatch]

Define cooked?

You can still find games, so I don't think it is cooked.

[chrome mauve]

I would say its in a decent spot. infinite and mcc both have at least a couple thousand people playing at what could be considered off-peak hours + whoevers playing on xbox

[coarse dagger]

https://aka.ms/ModMinute1

[autumn forum]

the pain of playing Halo Infinite Multiplayer: High pings and higb latency warning

[errant cairn]

lmao

[autumn forum]

Halo just isn't popular in Vietnam tbh

[errant cairn]

no wonder your ping is horrible dawg

[pearl robin]

Any clans open?

[covert hornet]

I mean, are people still hating on it and trying to put it down because over the last 2 days I came across a few halo posts and its just people throwing in hate as usual. So my question is, is the fanbase still trying to take down the game or vhat

[left snow]

Generally no. But there is an element that are primed on hating Infinite. And the upcoming CE remake. Anything post Halo 3 really*

• Broad generalisation.

[short flower]

I have beef with skimmers.

[plucky flicker]

What 'good spot' means to you?

[wispy oracle]

the difference between original printings of the books and the reprints?

[livid fable]

Is xbox cloud worth it? Im on PC and I have the MCC and Infinite, but never played Halo 5.

[plucky flicker]

I would prefer GeForce NOW, but they don't offer Halo 5, so...

I've never played Halo 5 either.

[glacial tartan]

They usually have a $1 for 1 month type promotion, because the usability varies so much depending on location / game I’d recommend getting the discount and trying it. Pretty low risk for $1

In my experience it is comfortable enough to do solo campaign but multiplayer would be pretty frustrating

[covert hornet]

Meaning is Halo not dying anymore? Are the games saved? Is the community no longer split into multiple groups?

[civic sundial]

The community is always going to have multiple groups, even without the divide you are likely referring to, not everyone here likes Halo for the same reasons

[quick bone]

I wonder what you all think about combining Halo RTS (Halo Wars) and Halo FPS (Main Halo video game series) into one massive scale Warzone type of battlefield for the next big multiplayer release? Like, what if some players play the RTS side of the battle overseeing the whole scale of the battlefield and the deployment of troops and assets where they are needed, while the other players on the team are boots on the ground fighting FPS at each major arena, area, choke point, or whatever it might be called. I thought this would be an epic step forward for the Halo franchise as a whole.

I would also love to see the addition of underwater combat, boats, and submarines! Imagine if you could sneak into the enemy base from underwater tunnels and steal the flag and slip away unnoticed?? Not sure if the flag marker would stay hidden underwater or not, but that was another cool idea of mine.

And last but not least, imagine having a throwable sandwich that acted like an explosive. Now take that a step further and turn them into sandwich torpedoes underwater, lmao. I think that would all make for some truly epic new and exciting meme-worthy Halo moments for the future!

[civic sundial]

I think you're asking for a Halo game which does too much at once

Like, I think trying to make a game which is trying to be a satisfying RTS and FPS at the same time is likely not going to work easily and one side would likely end up feeling lacking compared to the other

Not to mention the completely different structure to gameplay the two genres have

[quick bone]

Yeah, perhaps you’re right, or maybe it wouldn’t have to be the main Halo experience, but an experimental project like Warzone in H5

[civic sundial]

The closest we've had to RTS mechanics within a Halo game which wasn't Halo Wars would be the squad mechanics of Halo 5's campaign, but those were lacking compared to other squad based shooters

[quick bone]

I didn’t really flesh out the details of how it would work, but it was an idea or concept overview in my head

[quick bone]

Oh yeah, i remember that

[civic sundial]

Warzone was a major part of Halo 5, it wasn't some small side project

[quick bone]

Well, i know, but i mean it was experimental since they hadn’t really done something like that before

It was a test. Perhaps I didn’t have to call it small

[civic sundial]

I think calling it a test is the wrong phrasing

[quick bone]

Yeah, you know what I mean tho lol

It was new to Halo

[quick bone]

Sorry for the wrong verbiage

I figured by presenting my ideas here, ppl might like to tweak or add to them and we could collaborate in chat on some huge new idea

Working together

[wooden briar]

I would love to see this developed into something playable. Having a tactical commander role that can ping (perhaps even triage/categorize pings by priority/type) for all teammates to see, with the ability to activate attack or support drops like CoD's scorestreaks. I'm not sure whether it would be an entire "class" or maybe just essentially a longer-duration scorestreak where you earn enough H5 WZ-style points to activate it.

[quick bone]

Most notably i love the idea of adding underwater combat. Spartans are already on the ground and in the skies, why not underwater??

Seems like a next logical step

[sturdy kernel]

They too heavy I guess

[civic sundial]

You can still fight underwater when heavy

We've even had depictions of Spartans walking underwater in their armour

[wooden briar]

No worries about the presentation: it's awesome when people bring new ideas out of love for the game and share it for everyone to think about. It's a lot of fun.

[quick bone]

Yeah, that sounds pretty cool. But it would never work for like traditional ranked modes in Halo which i guess would remain 4v4 with weapons and equipment on the map as it is now

Ranked is ranked

But other modes have more flexibility

[quick bone]

I haven’t seen that! But i remember building on a modded Halo Reach Forge
map that included an underwater area. It was dope. I don’t remember how I built the bases anymore, but it was probably my favorite build of all time.

[quick bone]

Exactly!! That’s how we improve the game! We talk ideas, collaborate, share

Gonna go make some food. Be back in a bit

Hopefully i won’t be gone long

[civic sundial]

I want to say it was one of the Collateral Damage comics where we got a visual of them doing it but I need to double check

[quick bone]

Ooh, that’s one thing I haven’t ventured a lot into: books and comics. But i do love lore videos and such

[brave carbon]

I'm all for this if devs don't want to penalize quitters. They should hire you as the ideas person. Applause for you.

[quick bone]

I never quit

That’s the most disrespectful thing to do to your team

[glacial tartan]

Yeah but in MCC sometimes the game quits for you

[sleek hatch]

Or sometimes you get spawned trapped on last resort because your team doesn't know how to play it, and the enemy team is a 4 stack

[quick bone]

That’s a different story. So long as you don’t manually quit yourself, you’re a decent person

[quick bone]

That’s unfortunate, I know

[inland minnow]

the problem they're discussing is about penalising players who quit, not good sportsmanship. the servers cannot reliably distinguish between "this person quit from the pause menu" vs "this person alt-f4'd" vs "this person's game crashed" vs "this person pulled their ethernet cable on purpose" etc. penalising quitters means penalising people who did not actually decide to quit

[quick bone]

Ooh, i see

I get it now

[celest heron]

are you the type of person to stay in a game if it's just you or one other person on your team?

[quick bone]

If it’s just me, I’d guess I could quit, but if it was I was with someone else, I probably wouldn’t because I don’t want them to suffer

[celest heron]

if you quit though, then the probability of them quitting would likely be higher and then neither of you would be suffering.

[distant plank]

I’ve just finished CE on normal should I play on heroic?

[glacial tartan]

Quit bans likely shouldnt be "per quit" anymore and instead should be more like Infinite where it targets patterns of behavior.

Quit once a day who cares
Quit once a day every single day, bit weird
Quit multiple times a day every day, we should probably have some negative reinforcement issued here

ESPECIALLY since you cant rejoin on MCC anymore. All of the crashes used to be fine because you could rejoin, but you cant, which makes the bans feel much worse than years past

Obviously it would be great to fix the rejoin feature

On a side note, I wish the nastygram popup in MCC telling you that you'll get banned if you quit changed when half of your team left. Or at least let people know you can safely quit with no ban risk once half the team leaves. The amount of people who call me a liar when I tell them they can quit is.....well it happens every single day still

[sleek hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/theboys-perfect-gif-23821319

[inland minnow]

i only quit if my team has less than half the members of the opposing team, or half-ish and most of my team is giving up. but unless the other team is being especially unsportsmanlike i usually give it a go for a while before quitting, especially if my team's down a member before the match really starts.
conversely, if my team has higher member count then i relax a little and give the other team space/leniency. sometimes ive actually quit in those cases to even out the teams.

[distant plank]

Why would you get banned for quitting?

[glacial tartan]

MCC used to have serial quitters who would simply leave because there was NO downside.

[inland minnow]

i was just about to say something about that measure too. there was a time where that was common knowledge

[glacial tartan]

So the solution was to ignore why they were quitting or any kind of nuanced approach, and instead said every single time you quit = ban, period, no excuses/exception. So a bit too heavy handed in the other direction

[inland minnow]

being disruptive to a match. some people just like to know they caused problems for others

[distant plank]

Oh like those people who left among us back when it was popular

[glacial tartan]

As someone who has continued playing MCC almost every single day since launch, I have never found this to be common knowledge. Especially because....its not written in the game ANYWHERE. It was only ever in that one patch note once. Bleh. Adding it to the popup is literally a string change, I know we're on a "skeleton crew" for Halo multiplayer now but come on 😄

[errant cairn]

lmao it's so funny when diamond shields refuse to quit because they think you're tricking them into getting banned 😭

[glacial tartan]

(and we all have our own experiences, I'm not discounting yours ofc)

Like this game I just played, the last two people didnt quit because they thought they would get banned. About 2 minutes ago. And this game was not fun for anyone involved https://i.imgur.com/Bt2jlja.jpeg

[waxen spire]

i was once banned for a day to being toxic to a 343 dev since they were playing really bad on my team.. ive never blamed a teammate since cause im scared now

[celest heron]

I was toxic to a 343 dev, but they were a bot.

[glacial tartan]

its annoying that Infinite ranked has probably the best system but we'll never see it in MCC. If half of EITHER team quits you can quit with no penalty. On its face that sounds incredible 😄

[inland minnow]

its possible i have that perception because it was frequently, positively discussed/reassured here. i very rarely talk to users over xbox live; this server is the most contact ive had with active halo fans

[inland minnow]

i have never confronted anyone over their gameplay in my life i am too scared of gamers

[waxen spire]

xbox live is very toxic from my experience

[glacial tartan]

Yeah having game chat on in game is usually a mistake BUT it helps me get issues from real people, so its basically a risk I take lol

[waxen spire]

CoD 360 people will hate you so much they'll get you console banned, happened to me recently

[inland minnow]

thats wild. getting a two-generations dead console banned over pixels is so wild

[waxen spire]

exaclty lmao

[inland minnow]

i mean its wild in any case (i assume they are using hacks instead of reports to achieve it) but especially for the 360 now

this is why i stuck to making reach parkour maps and playing teamfortress 2 orange box. and the l4d2 demo

[waxen spire]

yeah and now theres mods for the 360 that can mess with users profiles apparently so they probably changed something or idk. still crazy to get that mad over pixels

im looking at you, dareals old dad. broke my halo 3 xbox 360 controller over legendary reach

[glacial tartan]

Also hey Halo Studios if you're listening, the automated quit ban system is the same thing cheaters were using to target streamers. If you modify that system you immediately defang cheaters, what a huge win/win that would be

[waxen spire]

im listening but im not halo studios

[glacial tartan]

(Cheaters can Spoof XUID -> MCC sees duplicates in the MPSD, automatically bans -> MAJOR ABUSE OF POWER)

That being said they dont really do it anymore but why leave it open for them to do it 😄

[waxen spire]

XUID's are still a thing on newer consoles?

[glacial tartan]

Its not related to the console? Unless we are talking past each other

[waxen spire]

ohh ok

[glacial tartan]

XUID = Xbox User ID = how the backend sees you. Your Gamertag may be "The FFA Panda" but thats not what the matchmaking logic sees, it sees your XUID and translates it

[inland minnow]

i oresume that means Xbox User ID. as in the numerical id number for your account, unlinked from your username

[glacial tartan]

Kind of like how "google.com" is really an IP address that your browser translates into human speak for us

[inland minnow]

out br'd

[waxen spire]

thought they were only 360 but forgot that its still the same xbox live

[glacial tartan]

Thats why when people are cheating I grab their XUID, because they will often be spoofing someones tag and/or change their name later, but the underlying XUID doesnt change 😄

[inland minnow]

i think we should curtail any further hack discussion now though, starting to head towards crossing a boundary i feel

[waxen spire]

yeah agreed

[glacial tartan]

Yeah np, trying to keep it fundamental to how the game works instead of a tutorial for nonsense

[inland minnow]

not maliciously intended and i get that but we dont really like discussion in any context for a variety of reasons

[glacial tartan]

TLDR: If we arent going to adjust quit bans, can we at least get the rejoin feature back pretty please like pretty pretty please

It took 6 months to get the Microsoft Store being able to search for games thing fixed, we are almost to 1 year on rejoin, please dont make it two 😄

[distant plank]

what is ilovebees

[coarse dagger]

An ARG that Bungie ran for the promotion of Halo 2
https://www.halopedia.org/I_love_bees

[inland minnow]

forever mad about the fact i kept writing "halo 3" in my gcse media studies essay where i mentioned ilovebees 💔 i still got a B though

[civic sundial]

I did Media Studies for a GCSE too!! Can't remember my grade though

[distant plank]

they dont do media studies at my school :(

[inland minnow]

i remember most of my grades because i got a C in history, E in ICT (yeah), and B in everything else

[civic sundial]

I was mostly Bs and Cs. Failed German due to a supply teacher not understanding that to practice speaking, we had to speak

So like a whole class of us failed that

[plucky flicker]

I don't know about Multiplayer, but I think it can be done for Campaign. I have ideas, but nothing groundbreaking you need to hear from me - they are already out there.

[plucky flicker]

Halo never died, it faded away from mainstream conversations, is all. I won't consider games 'saved' until I see Halo 7, but realistically Halo: Campaign Evolved should give it a headstart. I would suggest you not worry about the community, it will stay divided, some are healthy divisions — because of niche interests — and others maybe toxic; they can't make games for everyone.

[quick bone]

Dang, i really wanna see some large scale multiplayer

[quick bone]

It is impossible to please everyone haha

[lime forge]

I read a lot about criticism about the game, even about the artstyle

But i don't get why?

[rotund zenith]

You dont get why people would criticize something?

[lime forge]

That's not what i mean

I don't get what they are criticizing

I just would like to know, cause didn't read any "détails"

[celest heron]

I don't think we had enough hunters.

[rotund zenith]

dunno who "they" are. ive seen a bunch of different criticism floating about with plenty of details and others with no deats. probably best to just ask whoever youre talking about directly or just ignore it

[lime forge]

I've tried but no answer
Mostly was on Reddit

Well is not really to confronte them its just for curiosity

[solid canopy]

Wasn't there a Command and Conquer game that sort of did that?

I would like to see a proper successor to Warzone in the next mainline game

Maybe not Warzone itself, but something with a ton of its DNA

[lime forge]

Why?

[solid canopy]

Warzone's gameplay structure is centered around the REQ Card mechanics which are a tad problematic as they are Loot Boxes

Still, a large scale PvPvE multiplayer mode would be cool to see done again

I'd like to see them take ques from Invasion and how that mode was built around a specific scenario and really expand it

[lime forge]

Ah ok warzone of Halo 5

I don't want back the Req system personally

[solid canopy]

You could have a map based around a fleet battle where in place of bases you have two different ships (UNSC and Covenant/Banished). One set of players on the ships while another set engages in space battles.

Or have one set in a city with UNSC forces playing defense, taking down AA guns or securing sites. I really like the idea of objectives and encounters shifting depending on the direction of the match

As an example, if the UNSC forces manage to take out the AA gun they are able to advance forward with more powerful weapons and vehicles, maybe some air support and they move in on the Covenant or Banished ship/stronghold. On the flip-side, if the Covenant/Banished are able to defend the AA gun the UNSC forces have to fall back and defend their base

[left snow]

I've never been convinced that the Halo sandbox would do well with more players.

I think 12v12 is already too many.

You can't step out into the open without being shot from multiple angles. Going towards the objective is a death sentence. And most forays into a vehicle seem to end in a quick death.

The only players who seem to profit are those who like to camp and snipe. Which hardly feels Halo (at least to me). Yet every match - there they are. Sitting at the back of the map, ignoring any team play for the objective, waiting for 'x' to spawn.

Yes - you can make the maps bigger to compensate - but players will still congregate together to key areas. It will just be a more frustrating trek to catch up with mates.

What I would like is more of a sensation of being in a bigger battle. More happening around me. Even if it's "outside" the playable area.

[compact marlin]

That is a lot of Swords Of Sanghelios Hunters

[lime forge]

That's true

[winged hazel]

few thousand more wouldn't hurt

[quick bone]

I see your point there

[hexed lily]

do you guys think HS has any shot of making halo relevant again after theyve butchered the franchise so badly?

[sullen owl]

Will say though... Halo Infinite's BTB is baller.

I'm a huge fan of Squad Battle for the traditional BTB feel, but Infinite's BTB is awesome.

[compact marlin]

Halo has always been relevant, some fans just refuse to like change

[lime forge]

Meh

The BTB was good at the beginning but the map they added suck

[wooden briar]

Exactly. "Halo was my childhood!" Well, childhood is over.

[compact marlin]

Exactly, and games can still be the same with new addtions and can still make you feel like a kid again

[distant plank]

Is the audio drama the only “important” thing from ilocebees?

[celest heron]

It would need bigger maps, but the spawn system would likely need to be different maybe similar to bf and objectives would probly need to be reworked.

[gray crag]

halo will always be relevant its a legendary title but its hard to argue that it hasnt been on a decline and has had pretty bad retention numbers post launch. The drop off of players almost immediately after launch of the halo games for the last decade is significant. Halo infinite lost roughly 90% of its player base 4 months into its life and 98% as of july 2023. I know that is just steam and doesnt give a full representation but the trends overall are likely similar, and I would still be concerned with those numbers. H4 and H5 also had similar trends. With retention drops that sharp its hard to argue some fans just dont like the change and its more of a sizable amount of people dont find the new direction of the game compelling enough or fun enough to stay. They would rather use their time to play other games. The number would also be good if they could capture another demographic audience but that isnt the case. I switched to black ops 2 when H4 came out and would go back to reach and 3. Strong franchises dont just launch well they keep player engagement. Look at fortnite or even the Halo MCC that has a higher player count on steam and xbox most played rankings than halo infinite and those games are 20-25 years old.

[compact marlin]

MCC has six games you can play and Fortnite is a kids game, and it won't matter anyway once Halo comes to PlayStation and the Bungie Stands are left behind

[gray crag]

hopefully i want halo to be successful still my favorite game to this day

[compact marlin]

Same

[gray crag]

the playstation thing will definitely bring some new life and players to the franchise i like that move

[celest heron]

I think it's going to be hard to figure out the best way to go about things moving forward. what they're doing now isn't retaining players and going back to the original gameplay mechanics likely wouldn't work either.

[gray crag]

honestly releasing a fully loaded game at launch would be key. The slowly added updates and added features is something i commonly hear complaints about. Having forge, a good ranked system i miss the 1-50 system, campaign, graphics and a color pallet that look like OG halo or infnite I feel would be best. Also, theatre, and customs games browser ect.. I also think mechanically they should probably add some stuff to modernize but can't overdue it. I think of halos mechanics like CSGO or valorant. Its supposed to be simple and fun and more about map positioning and shot accuracy. I would add more map based equipment that makes the gameplay feel fun. I thought infnites movement was decently well done.

i also think the studio should focus on making the game fun and balanced before showing off graphics i think they rely a little to much on the looks of the game

[left snow]

100%. A fully featured game is a must.

One of the most damaging aspects of half-hearted launches is that it tends to favour competitive Halo (or is at least perceived as such). And that alienation of the other side takes a lot to earn their trust back.

The Halo sandbox is big enough to embrace everyone - but only if it launches with pve / forge / customs / career xp.

[left snow]

Which part of the 1-50 do you miss the most? The rank locking? The black market for level 50 accounts? Or the hidden 20 levels?

🙂

But having said that I do agree that the CSR needs to be a smaller scale. One that doesn't change every game. I'm just not sure we can go all the way back to 1 to 50.

Maybe 1 to 100. Or even better, 1 to 117. And those last 17 ranks can by H2-esque symbols.

The important parts would be to make rank somthing you earn over days to weeks (not game to game). And constrain it to a normal distribution (so people can't manipulate the grind). Then find something else to encourage regular play (eg. win tables at every rank, weekly prizes, medals, etc).

[left snow]

The movement is key.

We can safely conclude that sprint is going forward (being added to the CE remake).

I would now head back towards Halo 5.

A touch more speed to sprint - but counter with being knocked out when shot and delayed shield regen.

And thrusters back - they add so much to the combat dance (mixing up the strafe, avoiding grenades, and breaking a sniper's aim). We just need to tone down the ability to sprint -> jump -> thrust forward (it tended to break the maps).

Maybe the easiest and most consistent way is to make all these things (shield regenerators, equipment, thrusters) stop working when you are sprinting.

That would also stop people wanting to bring back that awful Spartan Charge. 🙂

But I note that this moves Halo away from the classic gameplay of predictable movement and map control. I just don't think you can have both. And if Halo 3 is the pinnacle of classic and Halo 5 was the height of advanced movement - I want more of the latter.

[gray crag]

yeah hahah my account was hardstuck 48 back in the day and it killed me as a kid that i never would rank up even after 5 wins in a rowect.. lol. But regarding the black market. I've yet to play a ranked game that didnt have a black market selling accounts or just straight up boosting. That stuff is everywhere. Also, H3's ranking system was one of the first ranking systems out there so yeah of course it had flaws it is 20 years old. The black market issues will never go away in any game but can be slightly nullified by just adding steep ranked play requirements such as having a certain amount of games played achievements idk stuff like that. In both Halo 5 and infinite I hit onyx in like 5 days and then was like ok well thats that and barely ever touched ranked again, so i definitely agree they need to make it a little more of a grind to keep player retention. The rewards need to be better too. Like armor, weapon camo, a nameplate that is reactive and makes you wanna get it. Overall, I've played a ton of ranked games and still today that 1-50 system i think is the best because its unique. Every game out there uses the generic platinum, diamond and it just isnt special or unique. The 1-50 system can easily be modified for todays standards and 2007 flaws. The #2 ranking system for me is cod because I love how they balance out how much you gain or lose per match just feels fair.

[gray crag]

honestly I just want a full game with a good ranked system and traditional graphics. I don't like to get into the sprint debate. Its just not my thing although I did enjoy halo 5's movement. H5's movement was amazing but the graphics weren't imo. But I am a competitive player and I love advanced movement in all types of games. I just feel with halo that when it comes to sprint there is always so much tuning that has to go with it that it becomes the focus of tuning sprint and not focusing on what actually matters which is making the game fun. H5 movement is fun to you and me but halo should be fun to everyone. The hypersweaty movement risks alienating a huge part of the population. Plus the market is already very saturated with hypermobility type of games. Halo is going to have to try to appeal to those fans and idk if they will leave there games for halo. I just feel games like counterstrike, valorant, rainbow six seige all ahve simple movement and massive followings because they are fun. We've seen 15 years of advanced movement halo and it just hasnt worked while we never got to see if simple movement would fail.

[left snow]

I think you've nailed the problem. Kids today get frustated they don't rank up with every win. Dopamine hits etc.

The problem is that if you've just beaten five teams ranked below you (if that's all the server has to give you) - then you shouldn't rank up.

And while I'm sure people still sell ranked accounts - the fact that they no long "lock" anymore - and are reset with each season anyway - makes it a much less enticing prospect.

We do need an incentive to keep playing through the season - so I would have a table of wins at each rank. And then display leaderboards ranked on age and region. Then have seasonal awards - eg. the top 200 in each rank are awarded "Champion" for that season (for that rank). Obviously Onyx 6 Champ is the pinnacle.

Players can concentrate on moving up the leaderboard as opposed to grinding meaningless CSR.

[gray crag]

that would be amazing

[lost trellis]

The announcement of God of War trilogy remake is exactly the kind of thing that makes it hard for me to get excited for CER. You're very rarely going to get me jumping up out of my chair and fist bumping the sky for a remake, but what's a cool thing to do with a remake is just confirm the whole trilogy is getting done even if some of the games are much further down the pipeline then others. Having a remake coming out then having random fans online shout out "THIS GAME ISN'T FOR YOU!" is such a weird thing to experience as the kind of person whose been apart of the franchise nearly all of their life.

Though it is funny to see the two big gaming Spartans having remakes seemingly coming out at the same time.

Also to add, the full package reveal is one of the things that made MCC so cool. Everyone being there type of stuff, even if Halo 3 didn't get the full invite as with 4, it's nice to see this package.

[left snow]

To be fair - the retort of "this game isn't for you" is usually directed at rusted on classic fans who bemoan "another" CE as opposed to Halo Studios working on Halo 7 and/or Halo 3 Anniversary.

And it's specific to this game being used to break the ice of the Playstation community.

It's also a bit more relevant given we know that there are other Halo projects in the works.

And finally - even though they haven't announced it - the trilogy is pretty much a given. Providing the foray into PS5 territory is successful. The main work for CE is getting the hybrid engine up and running. Once they have that then getting H2 and H3 on board would be relatively easier. Easy $$$.

[lost trellis]

Which lets be real, that's a wild thing to say. It's not like simply playing a playstation makes you some thing impossible to relate to, to the point where you need your own version of Halo. Halo is fun. World shattering reveal I know but you don't need to make the games more plateable to playstation players, they can just be as they are and still be extremely fun. I doubt adding sprint or lowering the bullets in the AR are going to be the disiciveion decisions that make CE better to the playstation market. Even then why would people champion a game that's purpose is to ignore it's core audience. I just don't see the logic.
On the topic of more Halo being silently made, that's cool I'm okay with that but what's up with all the cloak and dagger? I assume it's to avoid another Infinite situation where the game took forever to release but that's still happening people just don't have a name for the game.

Also again it's just weird to be told by other Halo fans not to engage with a Halo product. Like, what? That's so weird, no matter the franchise. Perhaps if it's like a really dark blemish such as like the later seasons of game of thrones, I get that, but just saying "No, this isn't for you!" is weird. If Coke made a sort of Dr.Pepper like mix with their own Cola flare to it, it'd be weird if Cola enjoyers were telling each other it's not for them, it's for the Dr.Pepper fans.

[left snow]

I think it's a reasonable retort. At least to those players who have clearly stated they aren't interested in another version of CE (as opposed to H3A, H7, and/or the next multiplayer). And that's where I've mainly seen (and used) that argument.

As for changing things like sprint and AR capacity. And nerfing the Halo pistol. etc...

I think it is important that the new Halo is consistent. The remake of CE, the upcoming Halo 7, and whatever iteration the next multiplayer take - need a level of consistency. A new Halo fan should be able to pick up a controller and swap between the games with ease. Same weapons should be consistent. Movement should be consistent. How the health and shields work should be consistent. And so on.

I'm not keen about perpetuating game play / design decisions from 25 years ago.

[lost trellis]

I think it's obviosu that I don't like the retort. IMO I pushes this weird superiorty thing that members have had in this community for awhile now. I have no idea why it exists or where it came from but fans are now trying to put up a scale of how loyal they are to Halo and which version of Halo that is. RATHER THEN JUST ENJOYING HALO! It's not a retort made in good faith, it's meant to dimmish their perceived opposition which is why it's a poor thing to say. It doesn't make us a better community it just builds animosity for no reason.

That matter of consistency is apart of the problem I fear. If CER is going to be changed because of an unrelated title releasing then burn both now. I'd lose my mind if I'm playing CER and have to get an update that balance changes the weapons of my PVE only game from a PVP only game just because someone wants things to be consistent.

I however am very keen on games from 25 years ago, the 2000s was easily the gaming golden age. Dawn of War, Half Life 2, Mass Effect, GTA San An and IV, Dragon Age obviously Halo, Gears of War, the CODs, fighting games where in a weird place but MOBAs were being born there too as well as loads more. Oh, oh man you got me salivating over here just thinking about it. Preem, it was preem. Also my favorite game every made Star Wars republic Commando is a 2000s game so, I'm sorry man, I have to love the Golden Age. The early teens were cool too, I gotta slide in my boy Vanquish into the talk.

[left snow]

Sorry if you've seen or had it used inappropriately against you.

But I'm comfortable using that specific argument. Again, specifically against those who lament that they would prefer Halo Studios look at H3A / H7 over yet another version of CE. This project is for HS (to get used to the new hybrid engine and using UE5) and for a new generation of CE players (including breaking into the PS5 market). If a previous fan of CE gets a kick out it - that's a bonus.

I'm definitely on the other side of the fence in regards of consistency.

I played the throwback playlists on Halo Infinite - and while I had more fun that I expected - it was incredibly frustrating to press the sprint button by muscle memory and have absolutely nothing happen.

I'm all for "fixing" the old fashioned / out-dated elements of Halo:CE for a (largely) new audience.

But on the same token - I'm all for a switch (or skulls) that bring those nostalgic elements back for veterans of the series.

[spice quest]

Yeah if they're gonna be trying out UE5 and other ideas they can test out before implementing them for the new games then CE is the safest game to try it out. It doesn't really move the needle story wise and they have a very low bar to clear to be the better remake vs CEA.

[left snow]

Plus there is no pressure of trying to get PvP or PvE right. Not that CE had much to go on anyway.

Fingers crossed they build the game with a common launcher in mind - so that other games and multiplay can be added together like a new MCC.

[spice quest]

Agreed

[lost trellis]

Again I just think it's lame to at all diminish each other. It's just getting worse and worse with the community and no one is stopping each other so hey, here I go. Your opinion on it isn't what has been said though. You still have the outlook of "Hey, CE fans should still be able to enjoy the game." many others don't and simply think CER should be a totally new experience and hate that there is anything holding it back. Like you said how you would prefer if games of today didn't borrow from games 25 years ago, they take it to heart thinking everything with CE is flawed or out of date when that simply isn't the case.

IMO nothing really needs to be fixed with CE. I felt the same way with RE4's remake. All I could think was "How are you guys going to improve RE4?" they really didn't. They just gave it some visual touch ups and removed content really. CE already has it's visual touch up so overall CER doesn't really drag me towards it too much. I feel a remake is needed when a game fundamentally missed it's market. But the tread right now is just to remake for the sake. This isn't even an issue with gaming either, it's just bleed into gaming sadly.

[left snow]

I don't see how the retort in anyway diminishes some one. Sorry.

If you want to play CE in it's orginal glory you still have the original, the Anniversary, and MCC.

Take to heart what you want I guess. Some aspects of CE don't make sense 25 years down the track. And the game by itself, in it's original form, would be a hard sell to a modern audience. I agree that most things "wrong" with game are quirks or foibles, more than flaws. But that doesn't mean they belong in a 2026 marketplace.

I can tell you now my kids, who play Infinite with me regularly, wouldn't touch the original CE with a barge pole - it just looks and feels like a 25 year old game. But they are both looking forward to playing the refresh. The rest of the young adults in our weekly Halo sesh seem to have the same feeling.

[lost trellis]

I'm speaking of how it just carelessly dismisses people. Many valid critics have been washed off with "It's not for you." which is the exact opposite place we were last decade. I remember 343i during Halo 4 asking for fans to stop with the shouting about problems and to give concise reasons to why we were displeased with Halo 4 and that was cool to see the community realize that all we were doing was screaming at the sky and people even started making diagrams of why they didn't like Halo 4's MP. People were saying "THIS IS BAD AND I HATE IT!" and 343i said "Nice to know but what exactly do you not like so we can address it?" and things looked up because people felt safe and encouraged to add their voice into a discussion which lead to atleast some of the issues being addressed like the art style change. Now, eh, you're a problem for giving feedback and shouldn't even bother playing the game. It's flawed and has totally inverted where we were before.

Again CE is still fun, that hasn't changed. Many people have gone back to play it either through CEA or MCC and enjoyed it and the classic games. Fun doesn't normally die out because of time but from repetition which is why many people don't like that CE is being sold again. I also highly doubt the only thing keeping your kids from CE or CEA is anything we've seen added to CER. Are they really saying "MC can sprint now, THIS IS OUR HALO GAME!"

[uneven bison]

People are allowed to criticize things, and people are also allowed to enjoy things. Enjoying something does not invalidate criticism, and criticising something does not invalidate a persons enjoyment of something

If all criticism is deflected as “not for you” something will never really grow or change in a meaningful capacity

[coarse dagger]

Nothing has changed with the studio's stance on feedback, if anything they've doubled down on asking for S.M.A.R.T and constructive feedback

[sleek hatch]

Where is the best place to give this S.M.A.R.T feedback?

[coarse dagger]

If it's related to Infinite: #1039633978841374720
If it's related to MCC, or future games like the CE Remake: #1076337363770417172

There are also sometimes surveys sent our to Halo and Xbox Insiders, which is also a great place to submit any constructive feedback, depending on they type of and subject of feedback they're after

[sleek hatch]

One of my friends got the email but I didn't. Is there a different insider for future Halos?

[coarse dagger]

Not everyone will get every survey they send out, sometimes surveys are only sent out to selected target groups - which isn't a bad thing.

While Halo has their specific Halo Insiders group for surveys/feedback/testing, Xbox do have a wider Xbox Research Group which may also be worth signing up for - if you're interested in this kind of thing:
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/research?msockid=2d1fef147e176ff818cdf9e27f736e3c

[solid canopy]

The issue with Infinite losing its player base really comes down to the massive content drought that came after the launch. The lack of maps, game types, a progression system, and no Forge mode to carry some of the weight are what really did it in. Had Infinite launched as a more complete package on par with Reach, I have little doubt that the game wouldn't have seen such a decline.

Halo 4's playerbase dropping so heavily can be particially blamed on the fact that there were two other Halo games on the same system and Call Of Duty Black Ops II released not long after Halo 4's launch

[sleek hatch]

Thanks

[errant cairn]

Movement in Halo 5 worked, what do you mean advanced movement hasn't work in Halo?

[civic sundial]

What?

[distant plank]

Should I listen to ilovebees?

[glacial tartan]

Look up Belos Lionmark or Belos Chosen

Its probably one of these two

[lime forge]

Reach is the perfect example of a peak Halo launch content for me

And i think Reach is also the issue in the Halo Franchise

Because at some point those Bungie games, and especially Reach represent what Halo fans expect from a Halo Game in term of content
Like a standard

[sleek hatch]

The problem is the players. Just enjoy what you have.
As told by corpos

[civic sundial]

Ah. Yeah, I don't really spend my time staring at my enemy's feet

[sleek hatch]

Strongsiding?

[lime forge]

If you think about Reach, you think about a good campaign with local coop and online coop even with match making coop
-Multiplayer with a lot of content, game mode and maps
-Firefight
-The biggest forge mode until then
-cinema

[lime forge]

Yes but in some way i'm just saying that its "normal" to expect what was before

[sleek hatch]

I was being sarcastic

[lime forge]

Ah yes didn't saw the second part sorry

[glacial tartan]

Thats staring at your own feet 😛

[sleek hatch]

Skillgap seen

[gray crag]

I was just hypothetically having a convo about stuff that could make halo relevant again. Halo 5 movement I thought was fun. I just was saying with halo 5's advanced movement doesnt work for the general population. It's great for competitive but hurts the core player base that wants a fun shooter. It also hurts map creation because everything has to be scaled to the advanced movement and the flow of games can get easily disrupted if everything isnt done right. It creates this balancing act and focuse on movement instead of focus that can be added to being creative and focusing on making the game fun first. Most franchises became fun first and then the competitive came from that. Fortnite and call of duty are 2 of the ones that come to mind for me. Both were very casual and then developed insane competitice scenes. Another thing is the population numbers Halo 5 had better numbers than 4 or infinite 100% but still dropped off pretty quickly. This was because of a lot of things but movement and hypercompetition focus was one of them. I like halo 5 movement so maybe they can make it so its tuned down in casual and increased for ranked idk.

[civic sundial]

Where are you getting that tidbit about the general population saying the movement in Halo 5 not working?

And I wouldn't say the abilities hurt the level design. There's definitely areas where the level design isn't as good as other areas, but that's true of all the Halo games, regardless of what the base mechanics the player has access to

And I wouldn't say the movement in Halo 5 took away from making the game fun. That's a really subjective thing to say

[errant cairn]

It doesn’t hurt halo as a whole, it’s honestly a personal preference

H5 has balanced movement unlike infinite

[errant cairn]

Spartan charge and ground pound were both unnecessary. The combinations you could have with using sprint, slide, and thrust in different ways was good enough

I agree with you

[civic sundial]

I would argue Spartan Charge, with some tweaks, could stay. I like the idea of there being destructible walls you can charge through. But they were woefully underutilised within the multiplayer in the map design

[gray crag]

its all subjective

[gray crag]

i used the xbox most played games for the first 3 year of halo 5

im not saying movement was the sole reason but it 100% contributed

Also for level design advanced movement in my opinion increased the complexity. Sightlines, vertical angles, and routes to get out of situation had to be insanely controlled. 343 leaned heavily on forge made models for more control and the maps were very symmetrical and geometrically and structurally similar. The spacing in the maps also felt a bit off for me as that threw off pacing.

[civic sundial]

The majority of maps in matchmaking in Halo 5 were dev made. There were Forge maps primarily in the BTB playlist, but that's because there were no BTB maps made by the devs for Halo 5

And yeah, adding additional movement and combat abilities will affect the level design, that's to be expected

I wouldn't want to play Halo 2's Midship with Halo 5's movement abilities, it'd feel horrible

Granted, I think Midship was too small even back in Halo 2

[gray crag]

can you imagine lol that would be chaos

i would want to see that tbh

[lost trellis]

NGL, Halo Wars 2's I know you trailer really embodies an animated Halo 3 Believe.

[celest heron]

couldn't stand SC. it was a complete gimmick ability that felt like an afterthought when they were trying to come up with abilities and the areas of the campaign maps that were blatantly designed for it felt completely pointless other than bash wall.

[gray crag]

yeah that one I didnt like. ground pound was also not the best imo. Other than that H5 movement felt good to me

[errant cairn]

True but it’s way too powerful when charging into an opponent

[rugged quartz]

ground pound was very fun

spartan charge, the issue with it was it had too much magnetism and too little during hte beta

[solid canopy]

I never got very good at the ground pound, mainly because I was playing with Recon controls

Bit hard to direct yourself when your right thumb is holding down the B button

[left snow]

I didn't mind hover and ground pound. The noise was obvious and you had a chance to retaliate or dodge (with thrust).

Spartan Charge essentially lined you up and gave you little warning. It was tough to avoid. I didn't like it.

[gray crag]

yeaH i can see how it can be fun i just never used it is why i said that. Charge up was so slow. Was good for some situations tho like when running the flag and jumping off a ledge and using it as a speed boost with the flag

[summer aspen]

Halo has never been about predictable movement, it's always been about unpredictable movement. You aren't supposed to predict your enemy, you're supposed to make educated guesses & be "smarter then the enemy".

Making it predictable just makes it boring, boring means people stop playing.
No, classic Halo titles aren't predictable, and no, 343i Halo titles aren't predictable either.

[summer aspen]

Define "on the decline".
343i Halo has arguably been far more successful over the years vs Bungie titles. It's just the unnecessary "hate" that's existed online which has lead many people astray.

In fact, Halo 5 is the 2nd most popular Halo title of all time according to what 343i said throughout 2016 - 2017. Halo Infinite got hyped so much off of Halo 5's popularity, it's one of the reasons Infinite got over 20 million players at launch.
No, Xbox Most Played isn't a reliable way to compare the over-all population of Halo titles, because you're effectively comparing entirely different era's of gaming in general.

[gray crag]

All of the original halo trilogy are some of the greatest video games of all time and revolutionized the fps genre and still are played today. I can’t exactly say H5’s population because its impossible. 343 took that data down after halo 4. I also am not going to take their word for it as it fits them to say stuff like that for PR purposes. Without actual data it is very hard to verify that claim. The facts are that halo 5 launched very strong and held that for a couple months, but the longevity of the game wasn’t great. At the end of 2016 it was in and out of the top 10 on its own console that it should be the face of and in 2017 the bottom of top 20. By 2018 it had little presence anymore. Keep in mind the next halo game wasn’t till 2021 so H5 didnt even make it till the next title. If the game truly was the 2nd best halo game of the franchise you would expect sustained engagement. I'm not asking for fortnite numbers. But for Xbox’s flagship title that isn’t up to par. I know xbox most played isnt the best but it does show what xbox games are being played the most at the current moment on xbox so it will have to do. By the decline I mean the franchise's hype is slowly eroding. Halo has been taken off the advertisement box of the xbox which it was the face of for over 20 years and is also being outsourced to playstation to gather players (which I think is a good thing). 343 also had to fully rebrand which suggests the studio leadership needed to shift in a different direction. Major moves like that don’t happen if a product is trending upward. This is my definition of decline: they are focusing on remakes of the older games showing still the franchise's momentum is with the earlier titles as well as halo losing its spotlight status with the xbox. Also, Halo infinite was also free to play that probably contributed to 20 million players as well

[summer aspen]

All of the original halo trilogy are some of the greatest video games of all time
Uh..No. That's an opinion. The only Halo titles that really did anything was Halo 1 & 2. Although H1 didn't actually do anything new that wasn't already done by previous games afaik.

I can’t exactly say H5’s population because its impossible.
Finding games on Halo 5 today isn't a issue at all, it just depends on the playlist.

am not going to take their word for it
Then your being disingenuous. If you can't take 343i's word, you can't take Bungie's word either. Stop being selective.

The facts are that halo 5 launched very strong
Correct, it retained a huge population for years.

By 2018 it had little presence anymore.
No idea where you got this from because that's verifiably false. Halo 5 stayed in the top 20's all throughout 2018. It also wasn't at the "bottom of the top 20's" at the end of 2017.

In fact -
Oct. 4th, 2017 - 20th
Feb 25th, 2028 - 24th
June 1st, 2018 - Halo 5's at the 20th position on Xbox most played.

H5 didnt even make it till the next title.
It did?

I'm not asking for fortnite numbers.
No Halo title has ever gotten fortnite numbers btw.

Was a few other things I could've replied to but honestly it's just the opposite of what you think tbh.