Travis Willingham was perfect casting for the role
#halo-discussion
civic sundial
serene badger
I could see him playing Fred physically on screen.
left snow
It was lovely to see Blue team. But a lot of the in-game banter was pretty terrible. Urgh.
frosty condor
Travis Willingham was perfect casting for the role
And his wife Laura Bailey as Vale 
civic sundial
Indeed!
Just a shame the two of them didn't have their characters interact. It's always a joy to see the two of them bounce off one another as characters
static cipher
if anyone has heard of age of war the game then join my custom game on halo infinite where its age of war but with the ai from halo
sullen kilnBOT
if anyone has heard of age of war the game then join my custom game on halo infi...
craggy hearth
You guys ever heard of halo
hidden thistle
Reach Infection is awful
sturdy kernel
You guys ever heard of halo
Uhm.... No?
celest heron
Reach Infection is awful
ehh, I don't think it's bad. some maps can be campy though.
inland minnow
https://www.windowscentral.com/gaming/halo/new-halo-report-suggests-xboxs-campai...
this is just a rumour, not an official source
worthy vortex
cue the outsourcing is normal comments
cyan forum
Ikr
The cope. But anyways, its an extremely believable rumor considering the previous games and their development
inland minnow
believable or not, it's just a rumour. if you think the game's bad, don't play it. play a game you do like instead
coarse dagger
Oh, it's Rebs, again...
Anyway, Waypoint Chronicles released today 
https://www.halowaypoint.com/news/halo-waypoint-chronicles-vol-one-out-now
celest heron
cue the outsourcing is normal comments
because it is?
sleek hatch
I feel like some people really don't know how much work contractors really do
worthy vortex
because it is?
people like to spout this comment while ignoring the fact there's a clear difference between making 90-95% of the game in house then the remaining % outsourcing
now its probably something stupid like 50%+
celest heron
possibly, but it's unconfirmed and also a leak. personally, I don't really care cause I didn't ask for this and it gives them more resources to focus on the next game.
cyan forum
people like to spout this comment while ignoring the fact there's a clear differ...
My point exactly
It usually doesnt and SHOULDNT make up over 80% of a games work
left snow
Even if it's not a rumour - it could still be a good thing.
Have HS responisble for the game engine (Blam/Unreal hybrid) and game assets. And story direction.
But then hand out the other bits of games; map layout, cut scenes, etc - to other developers.
That way you can have multiple Halo projects on the go... as opposed to waiting for HS to produce one every 4-5 years.
worthy vortex
Even if it's not a rumour - it could still be a good thing.
Have HS responisble...
so you admit its bad when outsourcing starts touching game code and game assets? ;D which may or may not be the case here
infinite was clearly plagued with it
left snow
so you admit its bad when outsourcing starts touching game code and game assets?...
Not sure I really admitted to anything along that tangent.
But no - touching game code is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as the code base is managed / documented appropriately.
I would have thought that Halo's problem was more that "corporate knowledge" of the Blam/Slipspace engine was hard to maintain. More of a short term contractor sort of thing. By the time someone became useful with the coding their time was up and somebody else had to start again.
Handing out specific projects, if managed correctly, would be fine.
worthy vortex
Not sure I really admitted to anything along that tangent.
But no - touching ga...
you drew a line when you said HS should be the ones to do the game engine/story/assets which is what any sane person thinks too, so no reason why halo should outsource those
how is it game studios now have like 2-3x the amount of employees compared to 15-20 years ago but still need to outsource more than ever despite halo still being a linear campaign/sandbox shooter 🤔
something went horribly wrong when it came to game dev, at least at xbox
but instead of fixing that issue they'll probably just purchase 5 more studios and call it a day :D
civic sundial
so you admit its bad when outsourcing starts touching game code and game assets?...
You know, this just shows how little you know about how game development works. Kinda impossible for external studios brought in to help work on a project to not touch things like the code or the assets while working. But as Darwi said, as long as things are managed properly, things should be fine (And I doubt they'd end up in a situation where they have to rewrite all the code unless something really dire happens)
And that's not even mentioning how more often than not, external studios have helped make 3D assets alongside the main studio. Plenty of the armour we see in Halo 5 was done externally as an example
worthy vortex
You know, this just shows how little you know about how game development works. ...
its nice to relate to the devs
So explain why external help is needed when the studio size is 3x the size compared to bungie in 2007
Bungie even made forge in house
Its not like halo now is some open world gta scale game
civic sundial
The industry grew and changed
worthy vortex
Halo didn't though its the same game with the same features
civic sundial
And I am pretty sure Halo 3 did have some outside help from other studios too
worthy vortex
Not for forge
Which goes to show how much was in house
Because forge now will probably never be in house again
civic sundial
Not for forge
You're shifting goalposts. You were talking about the whole game
worthy vortex
We legit went from nearly everything being in house mostly new models each game, to noticeably bigger studios, out sourcing, and recycling assets
And halo is still a sandbox shooter with a different twist each time
spare storm
When do you think the new halo will drop?
civic sundial
We legit went from nearly everything being in house mostly new models each game,...
Anyway, I counted at least 10 external studios working on Halo 3. Also, the game used plenty of recycled assets. That's been a practice in the industry for decades
civic sundial
When do you think the new halo will drop?
The big guess is November because that's when it'll be the anniversary of the original CE release. But nothing concrete has been said on when it's coming out
worthy vortex
Were you going to mention at all those 10 studios covers miscellaneous in game features like sound and practical effects and weren't on nearly the same level as what 5 or infinite did?
civic sundial
Ok, now I definitely know you don't know what you're talking about
worthy vortex
Your argument is basically look this game used external companies like this game therefore its exactly the same. Just don't look too deeply in what they actually did :D
civic sundial
I looked at the credits of Halo 3, where it had multiple studios listed under titles like Development Partners, Cinematic Animation Partners and Contract Artists, Engineers, Producers & Testers
Like, I genuinely don't think that it's worth continuing this discussion because clearly you're going to try and shift goalposts again to somehow make out as though none of these studios actually did anything instead of actually recognising that you didn't know things about Halo 3's development
worthy vortex
So somehow in your mind, cut scene animations and qa & testing is equivalent to making assets and game features like forge
😆
civic sundial
And now I know that you don't understand how much work goes into animation
worthy vortex
I'm not falling for the typical "every game does it" comments, some do it more, and some do it a lot more. And you know fall well the people who complain about out sourcing are complaining because its done too much
civic sundial
And I'm telling you that you have a distinct misunderstanding of the why outsourcing happens and when it started in the first place
This is not about "falling" for anything
worthy vortex
Well you still didn't explain to me why out sourcing now is done much more than before, despite Halo Studios being bigger than bungie was, and the obvious asset recycling which apparently let's them work on other things yet CE remake actually has less features than the OG game?
It don't take no genius to work out the math ain't adding
Not to mention halo releases now are scarce
coarse dagger
Games have gotten bigger, with more features and communities constantly asking for more. Outsourcing is basically a given at this point, it's been happening at scale for 20 years. Ignoring that is just pure ignorance
I honestly don't know how you can look at games from back then vs now and not see the massive changes. The advancements in tech, graphical quality, player base increase means more people to help support infrastructure and scaling.
Also CE remake has less features than the original game? Ignoring the PVP side because it was never intended to have that, it has more: online co-op, skulls, remix campaign, cosmetics that can be applied.
At this point I'm going to have to assume you're just baiting or trolling, because this is all you ever do and frankly it's tiring. Give it a rest
magic loom
I do feel a drop in quality when I do play Infinite and 5 in many ways sometimes, its very unfortunate stuff that were always there day 1 in previous halos were pushed in updates
Sounds weird to ask for but could game devs ask for more dev time? looking back at Halo 2 and 3 they had alot scrapped because of time constraints and its massive shame how that stuff got canned because they ran out of time.
civic sundial
It's not always as simple as needing more time. Halo 2's development was messy for countless reasons, not just the amount of time they had to make it. And well, you can't keep delaying a game forever to make it just right, the higherups and the people they answer to want stuff out the door to make money
winter river
I got halo wars 2 today
worthy vortex
Games have gotten bigger, with more features and communities constantly asking f...
"Games have gotten bigger"
Um again, Halo has not. Halo is still a sandbox shooter, with small, medium and large maps and a bunch of weapons just like old halos. It's literally just campaign with similar amount of missions, customs, froge and matchmaking what we've had from 2007.
But what's different now?
- The studio is bigger, has more people
- Out sourcing is now a lot more common, doing whole features of a game and assets too
- Assist recycling is now more common
- The time between Halo releases is now longer, giving them more time for each game
- They no longer have to bother making playable elites
So where's all this extra time and man power going for a game series that's still just at its core the same?
Asking simple logical questions isn't arrogance
coarse dagger
glares at how big Forge has gotten
Not to mention campaign environments, texture fidelity, custom game options/settings, modes that weren't in previous games, animations and rigging, QA for all new features, focus on accessibility, tech stacks and engineering which are now more complex, mocap and associated rigging. I could rack my brain for more, that's just for starters off the top of my head.
Maybe listen to the people who work in and alongside the industry and what they're telling you, instead of lapping up clickbait YouTube videos
worthy vortex
Oh trust me I hate these Halo youtubers just as much as you do, my opinions are based off what I'm seeing and playing.
And what I'm seeing and playing given all the points I just made about them having noticeable more manpower and time isn't showing.
Forge was completely external with HSs oversight.
coarse dagger
The studio had and has dedicated employees working on Forge
Not just doing oversight
worthy vortex
Splitting hairs isn't my plan but the majority of the grunt work was done by skybox labs/certain affinity, saying external companies it is accurate.
coarse dagger
Forge was completely external
Saying this is false, hence the correction. It's not "splitting hairs"
worthy vortex
I'm confused so are you saying the forge we got is the result of everything I listed above? where all the extra time and manpower came from 
I just don't get how a game like GTA 5 which is on a much larger scale still managed to mostly use internal studios and only used out sourcing on things like QA, UI, localisation, asset assistance but then a game like halo now relies so heavily on contractors/out sourcing for major parts of the game
coarse dagger
R* North had upwards of 1000 people working on GTA V
https://web.archive.org/web/20131004122711/http://www.develop-online.net/studio-profile/inside-rockstar-north-part-2-the-studio/0184061
Also, interesting detail from that interview is this:
“And that’s because of the size of the thing, we are modelling at such a minute detail. Once upon a time the car models have four moving parts. Now there are 15 alone in a car’s retractable roof. The detail is ten, twenty times greater than GTA IV, so it takes ten, twenty times more people.
You can apply that same logic to Halo and its vehicles and enemies
They are also 2 vastly different games, so you can't always use that as a comparison of "If X can do this why can't Y"
worthy vortex
Does that specific quote really apply to halo though, I could use a warthog, wraith, mongoose between 4, 5, infinite and it feels mostly the same
for gta that makes sense with all the damage mechanics, doors, roofs, lights you can switch on and off, radios, punctured tires, paint/body works, car mods
coarse dagger
"feeling" mostly the same is not the same as how it's designed and engineered. the amounts of assets needed to build each model, the animations and rigging, physics, spatial sounds. There's so much more work that has gone into later models. This is the stuff you don't see just by playing the game
So yes, this quote absolutely does apply
worthy vortex
even though somehow the physics/destruction animations decreased in quality vs halo 5 and previous games, which was a popular complaint at one point
mint vapor
as someone who takes animation classes yeah i can tell you that it is hellish work
or rather took animation classes mind you
modeling can take days for a single model if not weeks depending on how complex a model you are making, then rigging it with proper physics and animating it on top of that is anything but easy
rancid sparrow
Some Americans in game chat. Threatening to report me and crashing out bc I went afk for all of 10 seconds to have a drink 💀
rancid sparrow
What’s the domination mode called on infinite?
Just capture and holding points
Thought I found it but every time I spawned I had some weird weapons
celest heron
total control. it's usually in btb
there's also a strongholds playlist in 4's which is similar.
spice quest
"Games have gotten bigger"
Um again, Halo has not. Halo is still a sandbox sho...
Personally I'm all for asset recycling if it's in favor of telling more stories, though I do think that there's tiers of assets that can be reused and still keep things fresh. Like for example reusing music from older games in key moments or boss fights? Absolute cinema. Reusing weapon models? If they fit the sandbox, why not. Reusing enemies? As long as it makes sense and doesn't feel cheap and careless, and can be supplemented with a few new models. Reusing maps? It should be done with intent and moderation, not like in Dragon Age 2 for example, but to use familiarity as an asset.
neat beacon
Yo im making a halo mod for Minecraft, does anyone want to give me feedback on the plans I wrote?
I wrote alot of details and references
Anyone who knows halo ships well for my intro, anyone who knows details on characters to check if my references are inaccurate, etc
I mean I love halo, I know what I am making
But 1 person cant get every detail right