h1-high-heat-strategies

[mossy zinc]

Nyaanyaa.

[honest kernel]

yes i like nya nya

miss nyaanyaa what wr do you hold

?

im curious

[mossy zinc]

I have no clue at the moment, let me check lol.

[jaunty falcon]

Hera rta like 6 months ago

[mossy zinc]

lol

[jaunty falcon]

Now only 90 seconds off 💪 💪

[mossy zinc]

In my defense, I only tried for like 2 or 3 days.

Zag Shield, Hera, Poseidon, and Guan Yu speedrun WRs at 32 Heat. Boonless mirrorless high heat WR at 32 Heat. And the women's high heat WR at 51.

[hallow garnet]

nyaanyaa is gaming too hard

save some wr for us peasants

[jaunty falcon]

I have MEstia 32 heat WR

And ZAP fists I believe

[honest kernel]

how do i build on my zues shield after lightining special?

[hallow garnet]

#h1-builds-and-combat

[mossy zinc]

Static Discharge.

Then pom that.

[jaunty falcon]

And double strike

[honest kernel]

sorry

[hallow garnet]

and splitting bolt if you want it

[jaunty falcon]

Which you do

[mossy zinc]

Smoldering Air is amazing, too.

[hallow garnet]

Yeah but not required ofc

Static discharge basically is required

[mossy zinc]

Lord Zeus is basically the Xzibit of Olympus.

[hallow garnet]

what?

[honest kernel]

i took athrna keepske just for the dash

;-l

i messd up this run

[mossy zinc]

Putting more lightning on your lightning.

[hallow garnet]

Who’s xzibit

[mossy zinc]

Eh, Divine Flourish is pretty good, too. As are Heartbreak Flourish, Deadly Flourish, Drunken Flourish, Curse of Pain... I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[hallow garnet]

no frost flourish

Sad

[honest kernel]

so far i have zues special

and artemis dash

[undone tartan]

I personally don’t like Hunter Dash on shield

I have a new plan for 50 heat Beowulf. I’m gonna super high roll. Passion flare, snow burst, tidal dash, deadly strike, mirage shot, 2+ chaos grasp or shot boons. I’m not beating EM4 without a completely broken build (yes I understand this is a skill issue) so I’m gonna force a completely broken build. In this situation, is there an argument to be made that DC2 is better than AP1? As long as I get Snow Burst in Tartarus, it just might be better. But I really don’t know. Advice?

[mossy zinc]

You do not want to fight EM4 DC2 if you're already struggling so much with EM4 DC0.

[undone tartan]

Time constraints?

Guess that makes sense

[mossy zinc]

The skulls are actually gonna murder you.

[undone tartan]

What if I get chamber 3 snow burst or tidal dash

[mossy zinc]

Just don't.

[undone tartan]

Alright. Well then getting this build together may take hundreds of runs

[mossy zinc]

You may find you don't quite need all of that to beat him.

[undone tartan]

I’ve died to EM4 with Beo at least 6 times now

Only made it to phase 3 once and I was already a minute over on that run

[mossy zinc]

6 times isn't a lot.

[undone tartan]

I die in early phase 1 most runs

Like the first half of phase 1

A spear throw and a spin and my entire run is over (after I lose my acorn charges) and the boss has over 70K health

So… yeah I think I will

[cursive portal]

First 2 steps good

Rest bad

[shy plinth]

Why not make a practice save

Just run the Em4 fight over and over

Not even sure acorn is the call for em4

[undone tartan]

Wym first two steps

[undone tartan]

I play on switch

[cursive portal]

Snow burst+passion flare on priv status

DC2 beowulf is horrible

[undone tartan]

Yes yes I have heard. And I have done it before. And I have died in EM4 phase 1.

At least 3 times

[cursive portal]

So do an EM3 pact with AP2

Or RI2 JS2/3

[undone tartan]

AP2 doesn’t get me to 50 without doing at least DC1

And I already do JS3

[cursive portal]

Are you on hell mode?

[undone tartan]

No

[cursive portal]

You should be

[undone tartan]

No thanks

[wintry berry]

Take cp2

[cursive portal]

That one extra heat is huge

[undone tartan]

I do

[cursive portal]

Cp2 EM4 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[wintry berry]

JS3, CP2, AP2, EM3

[undone tartan]

That can’t get me to 50. I can’t get 50 without RI, EM4, or DC

[wintry berry]

• DC1

[quartz mantle]

DC1 isn’t bad

You take the initial shield with your dash attack

[undone tartan]

Ok but with AP2 I’m gonna need some godlike RNG

I’d be lucky to get Snow Burst at all

[cursive portal]

Drunken strike also ok

[undone tartan]

So all my damage will be just from my cast, which will also have no chaos boons for it

[cursive portal]

Or aphro core that isnt call or special

*dem

[shy plinth]

I would honestly consider getting the pc copy of the game and making a practice save at this point

Doing runs over and over again just to learn em4 will erode your soul

[cursive portal]

Also the ability to use a hell mode max save/modded if you feel like it

Modded gets no AP on first boon on the latest pack

[gaunt fiber]

Soul status : eroded

[undone tartan]

7 savior bowmen on 50 heat Hestia. Literally rip run

I literally can’t beat that

[quartz mantle]

That is true

unless you have booze dash or somethin

[undone tartan]

I had 3 DDs. THREE

I can’t deal with this

I’m quitting Hades. I’m done. I can’t do this. This is absolute BS. Perfect run, and then I lose 500 health in that room. I’m done.

I have literally never in my life been robbed worse than what just happened to me

If someone breaks into my house and steals my computer and my switch, it would be less of a robbery than what just occurred

[bronze viper]

🧂

[undone tartan]

Damn right

[quartz mantle]

It happens

[bronze viper]

If you want peace, assume it was going to be a 5-sack that run anyway.

[eternal hare]

shake it off and move on whether that means trying again another time or just putting it aside for the time being

[undone tartan]

I could have beat a 5-sack

I would have preferred a 5-sack to that room

When I died (after losing 3 DDs), I had spent more time in that one room than I usually lose in Styx when I get a 5-sack

[bronze viper]

Lol, I wasn't being literal. Stuff happens, shake it off and try again later.

[undone tartan]

And I had lost more health than I had lost in total for the rest of the run leading up to that room

It was the final room of Elysium too

[hallow garnet]

do it

[undone tartan]

I am

[hallow garnet]

Wuss

[undone tartan]

That wasn’t a joke. I fully intend to quit the game

[hallow garnet]

You’re just taking the game’s bad rng like that

wow

[undone tartan]

Yes

[lucid atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/buddy-bye-goodbye-good-luck-narwhale-gif-5705268

JK @undone tartan def take a break, but don't sweat it...that bad RNG feels personal, but it isn't and it won't do that to ya everytime

[hallow garnet]

50 heat hestia huh

[undone tartan]

I’ve been grinding for weeks. 60+ runs. And I finally get a run that look like it could do it. And then… absolutely screwed with the literal worst room I have ever seen in my life and that’s not an exaggeration

And in the final Elysium room

I’m done

[hallow garnet]

All i can say is take a break

and win a run out of spite

[shy plinth]

I mean you were looking for an offramp anyway right

You were kinda pushing high heat even though you weren't enjoying it because you were bored?

There's no way that's going to end up feeling good, especially for something as difficult as 50 heat

Probably a good call to disengage

[bronze viper]

Also maybe consider that if it's taking you 60+ attempts to do Hestia at 50 heat that maybe you still have a lot left mechanically to improve on and maybe RNG isn't your only stopgap.

So like... (if you want) just keep playing the game and learning and you should eventually just be able to do it a lot easier.

[eager vortex]

good call, not worth it if you're torturing yourself instead of having fun

[lucid atlas]

Yeah probably, I mean, I would accept torture for my faith, my family, close friends, and maybe a tough PlayStation platinum trophy…but for pride?

https://tenor.com/view/mike-peps-nah-no-nope-gif-7589050

[daring hedge]

High heat runs die to horrible elysium rooms all the time, even when they're otherwise going great

Even though it still sucks, keep in mind that it just happens to all of us

[flat flicker]

There’s no shame in not being able to do 50 heat. It’s mad hard

That’s like, the whole point

But once a game becomes a job, a break is ideal

Unless you’re getting paid

(assuming not charged shot - i dont like the feel there)

[cursive portal]

50 is very hard

very easy for thing to get out of control

especially with hell mode(no protection bubble)

[flat flicker]

Man I choked against lernie

Had 10 hp left thought my next rush would kill him and it didn’t and I went in lava and died

[lucid atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/floor-is-lava-tv-show-epic-title-gif-17645067

The struggle is real my friend

[ripe ermine]

Lernie is the pits. I now have a pretty strict rule that if I’m a hit away from death on the last phase I just Meg

[bronze viper]

Just remember to get your baby hit in on last phase if you have CP2 :3

I have died... non zero times to that

[undone tartan]

Is 50 heat in Hades harder than P5AB in Hollow Knight?

I doubt anyone here has done both of those things

[bronze viper]

They test different skills

I think P5AB is harder (full disclosure I haven't finished it, so I'm biased), but it's mostly because I lose steam and I get bored and do stupid stuff on the easier encounters

[shy plinth]

There are people who clear 50 with enough regularity here

Once you get in the 60s I think it becomes really tough to say

[undone tartan]

If any person says 50 heat is harder than P5AB, I’ll go back to Hades and beat it

[shy plinth]

Who are you doing this for

[bronze viper]

Yeah I can't imagine a world where I could yolo P5AB but I am in yolo range of 50

[undone tartan]

(Any person who has done both, that is)

[shy plinth]

It seems like you are in pursuit of running hades into the ground for yourself

This isn't healthy and doesn't make you happy

Why are you doing it

[solar maple]

I’ve tried p5ab. I would say it’s harder

Best I’ve done is died to collector

[undone tartan]

P5AB collector is the second hardest or hardest boss in the pantheon, so that’s understandable

[bronze viper]

Like... I haven't played this game consistently since what... half a year ago? And I'm still around 50% clear on my "feelin cute, might delete later" Rama 50 runs (though they're EM4 RI0, which is actually very consistent when you get used to EM4 lol)

[solar maple]

I eventually gave up on p5ab and did nail + mask + soul binding p5 and called it a day lol

[undone tartan]

Well yeah but I know people who do P5AB runs consistently and even have gotten hit less than 15 times more than once

But yeah I’m inclined to believe P5AB is harder

[eternal hare]

maybe it's the exact same way where if you are willing to put in the time and effort to learn it you can reach that level

[shy plinth]

It just doesn't sound like you enjoy doing these 50 heat runs

I'm trying to figure out what's compelling you

[undone tartan]

I honestly don’t most of the time. Well, not the Hestia ones. The Beowulf ones are definitely decently fun at times

[shy plinth]

If you're having fun keep doing it but the amount of negativity you've been venting in here during this 50 heat journey indicates to me that it's not a healthy pursuit

Or at least not one that seems to be giving you any kind of happiness

[undone tartan]

Yeah I know

Metroid Dread comes out in 12 days

I wanted to beat 50 heat before then, since I had nothing else to do

[bronze viper]

Or who knows, maybe you eventually could go the way of the Schadenfreudic and be in a perpetual state of having angrily quit the game while simultaneously spitting out 50 heat meme clears.

Like every other day

[shy plinth]

Spending free time on something I hate wouldn't be what I'd want to do

Like I get the idea of just having empty space and creating a goal

But at this point it feels like actually doing anything else would make you happier

[shy plinth]

This is very on brand

I miss Schad

[daring hedge]

when was the last time he was around?

is he on a more serious leave this time

[bronze viper]

he poofed a month or so after i did

Though he's been a lot more consistent about popping in lol

[eternal hare]

dont think i've seen him around in the past two months or so

[solar maple]

On the other hand I’ve played hades over 3x as much as hk

I’m sure if I played a few hundred hours I’d be able to do it but it stopped being fun so I stopped

[undone tartan]

Fair

I quit HK a bit after beating P5, but it’s still my second favorite game of all time (after BoTW )

[bronze rapids]

I played HK until unlocking P4...now trying to get my Switch file to the same spot

[undone tartan]

It took me a really really long time to beat P5 though

Like 340 hours

Although some of that time was spent on other save files and not actually practicing

But I have over 500 hours in Hades

[eternal hare]

not even sure if I have 500 yet tbh

[solar maple]

I got similarly addicted to hk as I did hades for a while, did radiant HoG and such

[daring hedge]

i have at least 722h in hades, but that's definitely not all since i had been playing on epic for a while before steam release

[undone tartan]

I did AscHoG and more than half of RadHoG but I got sick of radiant bosses because I like having my room for error

[solar maple]

yeah a few of the bosses were such a pain

[undone tartan]

Markoth

[solar maple]

yeah I did all the fun/interesting ones then I felt obligated to beat like the last 3 that were left lol

markoth

rad markoth was not fun at all

[undone tartan]

RadKoth is infamous in the HK community

[solar maple]

definitely the least enjoyable thing I did in hk

[undone tartan]

Sometimes I want to get back into HK but all I have left to do is RadHoG, AB pantheons, and P5 bindings (and my no upgrade file with nail0 white spells no charms 5 masks and no extra soul vessels where I still have to do trial2&3 and collector and P1&2)

I’ve also played a lot of Celeste

[solar maple]

pancake if you want to keep playing hades challenge runs but 50 isn't fun have you tried fresh file? I found that a lot of fun

[undone tartan]

I’ve tried fresh file a lot actually

Got to Hades once

It’s honestly way too hard for me I think

[solar maple]

yeah I died to hades like 25 times before I got a clear

[undone tartan]

I’ve done at least 40 attempts of fresh file

Wasn’t very good at it

I even watch some Vorime videos about empty dashes

[mossy zinc]

I wouldn't be very good at it after only 40 attempts.

[undone tartan]

Idk how much time you think I have lmao 40 attempts is like 20+ hours

[solar maple]

those are long attempts

if each one is half an hour

[undone tartan]

Yeah I usually got to Elysium on my later runs

Well I don’t count early tart resets

Which also eat into my time a lot

[solar maple]

for me when I got used to early game most of my runs died to heroes, then once I got used to heroes most of my runs died to dad

[undone tartan]

If my second god wasn’t Ares I would just reset honestly

[solar maple]

after that once I practiced the dad fight on a savestate I got the clear the next day

[mossy zinc]

It's not about how much time I think you have. m just trying to give you some perspective. I wouldn't be very good after only 40 attempts, either. Maybe clutch out a win here and there, but most likely no consistency yet.

[undone tartan]

Sure. I wasn’t saying that 40 attempts was a ton, but I think it’s enough to get a feel for it

[mossy zinc]

I recall you taking much smaller steps when going up in Heat and having a lot more fun with it. Recently you've been so insistent on taking very big leaps even though adding any Heat past 40 is a lot more difficult than adding any Heat in the 20s or 30s or whatever.

Instead of looking for the best ways to practice and learn, you're looking for the easiest win. I don't think that's a healthy mindset.

I get that you want to join the 50s "club", but maybe you're skipping a few steps along the way.

[undone tartan]

I beat 45 with 5 aspects and 40 with 19 aspects

[mossy zinc]

45 is pretty far away from 50.

[undone tartan]

What step have I skipped? If I do 48 and I win by a lot, I’ll never forgive myself for not just doing 50

[mossy zinc]

I'd say 45 to 50 is a much bigger leap than 32 to 45.

[undone tartan]

I agree

In fact, I’d say that the leap from 45 to 50 is comparable to the leap from 0 to 40

But I just don’t think that doing 47 or 48 is really gonna make me satisfied right now

Weren’t you the one that was pushing my to do 45 when I thought it was too hard and was just gonna do 44?

[mossy zinc]

You also weren't so frustrated with yourself and the game then.

[undone tartan]

This is true

[mossy zinc]

From what I've gathered, you make it farthest with an EM4 pact, but you don't stand a chance against him at the moment. That's a lot of practice steps you're trying to skip there.

And if you don't take EM4, you're running into other problems that I don't think you're trying to efficiently practice for or to learn how to deal with. I only ever see you asking for pact suggestions anymore, but you don't ask how to deal with the situations that got you killed.

[undone tartan]

Well what am I supposed to ask? I’ve watched gameplay, the way to do it is pretty clear, I just need to do it and I need to do it precisely? If I say “how do I deal with armored speeder shieldbearers with Hestia where my only damage is my attack?”, I doubt I’m gonna hear anything I didn’t already know

Or “how do I not get savior numbskulls” or “how do I get Tartarus mirage shot”? Just get luckier for those

[mossy zinc]

Bunch them up, so that you can hit them all with your Special and proc all of their attacks at the same time, ideally.

You don't need to not get Savior Numbskulls to make it out of Tartarus.

[undone tartan]

My special is dealing 50 damage a hit

[undone tartan]

I do with most Hestia builds I’ve gotten. I just hold attack and dash strike. I don’t even get hit, but they waste 2+ minutes

[mossy zinc]

Spread them thin along the wall, so they don't all give each other blue hearts all the time.

And use your Special, too.

[undone tartan]

Unless I’m willing to get hit, they’re too fast for my special

[mossy zinc]

That's fine. You have SD.

[mossy zinc]

Skull Earring and Shackle will both get you more damage on your Special even when you don't have a boon. Hourglass is also an option for more damage depending on Wells.

[undone tartan]

Yeah but they all have 4+ hearts anyway. It’s not gonna really do anything

Well I’m not taking either of those into Elysium if I can help it

[mossy zinc]

Of course it is.

[undone tartan]

I take Tooth or Acorn into Elysium

But it doesn’t matter because I’m definitely not doing 50 heat Hestia runs anymore

[mossy zinc]

EM3 shouldn't be too much of a problem for Hestia without Acorn in Elysium.

[undone tartan]

Those are so miserable

[undone tartan]

Yeah that’s why I take tooth most of the time

Unless I lost it in Asphodel

But again I’m done with 50 heat Hestia

[bronze viper]

At 50 heat you don't need to start an attack damage boon. I found Tidal Dash start to be comfy and immune to Savior nonsense

[undone tartan]

AP2 RI2

I’m using Shackle

was

[bronze viper]

I mean... at AP2 RI2 you're going to have to expect a lot of resets because of any number of reasons. You're already playing a lottery.

[undone tartan]

I’ve reset 40-70 times

Never made it to champions

[bronze viper]

Which is to say, I remember your comment earlier about the 5 dash divine dash 45 heat clears. I think your venture at 50 is more or less pointless until you can be very very unlucky at 45 and still generate semi-consistent clears

[undone tartan]

But again, any 50 heat attempts I make in the future will be with Beowulf

[daring hedge]

while this is true, hestia in particular isn't too pressed by these compared to most other aspects, i would say

part of why hestia has been so popular in a 50 heat speedrunning context

[bronze viper]

Yeah that's fair. The sanity of deciding to learn 50 heat on AP2 RI2 is something else entirely though.

Especially if you haven't done that heat before.

[mossy zinc]

Speedrunners also don't mind resetting for 3 hours in Tartarus.

[undone tartan]

I was advised by many good players to do AP2 RI2 for Hestia

[daring hedge]

yep

because hestia can handle both without much issue, as the aspect doesn't ask for much to get going

not that it doesn't get hard

not saying that

[bronze viper]

It's different. I also advocate for AP2 RI2 on Hestia, it's more or less resilient. The difference lies in the fact that you haven't learned 50 heat by itself yet. So you're hamstringing your progress with a lot of aborted runs based off of RNG when you could just be... playing the game and getting better

[mossy zinc]

Pretty sure the majority of players who did Hestia for their first 50+ were also Hestia mains, though.

That's something to keep in mind.

[daring hedge]

really? i remember plenty of players getting into 50 hestia first just through word of mouth that it was one of the most straightforward in that arena

like duunk0

[shy plinth]

Duunk0 is an exception to most rules

[wintry berry]

duunk0 was already very experienced

[mossy zinc]

Well, duunk0 has more experience on every single aspect than most players have on just one tbh.

[daring hedge]

not saying he wasn't? this is in context of the "hestia mains" point

regardless of how good he is, which he is

[eternal hare]

duunk0 also had significantly more trouble with 50-heat in general than you'd expect

[daring hedge]

he's not a hestia main

[bronze viper]

I think around release last year there was a renaissance of Hestia awareness where tons of people just did 50 Hestia from nowhere lol.

[daring hedge]

yeah, but i don't think it came from nowhere

[bronze viper]

Oh sure, it came from Hestia lmfao

[mossy zinc]

I just know there's been a lot of "Hestia Bestia" players among them, and some who were infected.

[bronze viper]

Aspect good

[daring hedge]

hestia has been known not to ask for much at high heat

and its mechanics are relatively simple to work with in a chaotic high heat environment

[mossy zinc]

Anyway, point I was trying to make is you can pick up Hestia and do 40-45 or whatever in a couple attempts, but 50+ is still gonna take some practice to become familiar with the aspect.

Or resets if RNG screws you over and you don't feel like learning how to deal with those particular encounters.

[undone tartan]

I now have more practice with Hestia than I do with Rama, my favorite aspect in the game

[eternal hare]

did you try 50 with rama?

[undone tartan]

Nah, that doesn’t sound fun. Well I’ve tried a few times but it demands good hammers which equals more resets than I want to do

[bronze viper]

You can def clear 50 on Rama with potatoes and a dream

[mossy zinc]

I was confused at what ad ream is lol.

[daring hedge]

yeah, rama at 50 doesn't demand good hammers i would say

[bronze viper]

So I wouldn't say "demands" is a great word. That and Rama has like, the highest concentration of good hammers in the game

[undone tartan]

Well ok maybe not

[mossy zinc]

Yeah. Twin Shot, Triple Shot, Repulse Shot, Explosive Shot...

[undone tartan]

But I am not gonna beat 50 without twin perfect/point-blank

[mossy zinc]

It's odd to me that you have no confidence in beating 50, yet you keep trying.

[undone tartan]

It’s hard to have confidence after 100+ failed runs

[bronze viper]

If you want the coward's way out, Drunken Flourish + Relentless Volley is basically sufficient for 50 as well :3

[daring hedge]

i think if you practice high heat rama more you will get to the point where you don't necessarily need two ideal hammers to make it through. and if it's your favorite aspect, practicing isn't as much of a chore

i personally have had fun just improving with rama, but i know that isn't universal

[undone tartan]

Yeah but at high heat it feels very difficult and I don’t really enjoy it as much there, so I prefer to play safer aspects

[bronze viper]

I think doing content that's harder than you've done before, with all the pacts that make your runs the least consistent is kind of a recipe for burnout.

[undone tartan]

Beo is my second favorite though, so I’m running that

[bronze viper]

Which is why I advised working on making 45 easy first

[undone tartan]

Yeah but I just didn’t feel satisfied beating 45 anymore

[bronze viper]

45->50 is probably the most significant meaningful difficulty gap. 50++++ obviously gets really hard but you're mostly fighting against RNG and timer bullcrap

[mossy zinc]

I didn't even make an attempt for my first 52 until I practiced the boss fights so much that I was confident I could beat them even with relatively weak builds and ~200 HP total for Hades.

[bronze viper]

Yeah, for my first 50s I also made save states for dumb BP2 Elysium rooms so I could practice without pressure

[mossy zinc]

I did that a whole lot when I was trying to get 56 Heat in Blood Price.

[undone tartan]

Switch moment

[daring hedge]

i just did old school resets and genuine deaths 😔

[bronze viper]

RIP

[bronze viper]

You don't count, you learned EM4 by just... getting to the ends of runs LOL

We can't all be space foxes

[mossy zinc]

You also had the high heat WR before heat was reworked.

[daring hedge]

lol it is def not the most efficient way to improve at EM4 at all

[mossy zinc]

Had a head start on most of us.

Barrel-rolled us before we knew what barrel rolls were.

It was a good strategy, though.

Get high heat WR. > Bribe Amir to lower how much Heat you can get. > Unbeatable high heat WR.

[daring hedge]

this came at a great cost: old high heat isn't even fun to watch

bull rush for 45 minutes

[mossy zinc]

So basically 60+ now but for 45 minutes instead of 20.

Sounds like you had more than double the fun.

[bronze viper]

You can pretty easily add stakes to lower heats by going for streaks, or imposing arbitrary constraints or suboptimal pacts on purpose.

[daring hedge]

remember wobbles doing all 45s with DDs

[undone tartan]

I already got a 100 streak

And I did AP2 RI4

[bronze viper]

I meant streaks at 45 heat lol

[undone tartan]

God no

That would not be fun

I really think that the only thing that will make me feel accomplished is if I beat 50 heat. I can do more casual fun runs, but I ran out of ideas for those

[eternal hare]

40-heat but fast

[mossy zinc]

That feeling of accomplishment will be short-lived, and then you'll be looking at "I'll feel accomplished if I do 50 Heat on two aspects" or whatever.

[undone tartan]

Nah

I’m gonna move on from this game in a few weeks most likely

There are games that I’m looking forward to

[daring hedge]

if it really isn't fun and you're not interested in playing Hades beyond a few weeks from now, i guess it's hard to argue against that

whatever's best for you really, as there's never pressure to complete 50 heat

[shy plinth]

Why not play something else now

Why this

You don't have to give hades two weeks notice

[undone tartan]

But in the meantime I have nothing else to play and when I try to play something else I just keep coming back to Hades because I have unfinished business

[undone tartan]

I honestly have nothing else to play

During my break from the game today all I did was replay old Celeste levels to get a few less deaths than my last attempt

I’ve played an insane number of games in the last few months

I have a lot of games that I still want to play but they’re not on switch, so I’m until PS5s exist so I can get one and play them

[shy plinth]

Have you played one step from eden

[undone tartan]

What is that

[shy plinth]

https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/one-step-from-eden-switch/

Fun game

[undone tartan]

For context on the types of games I really like, my top 5 favorite games are:
BoTW, Hollow Knight, Dark Souls 3, Hades, and Celeste

Mmm idk if that looks like my kind of game

[shy plinth]

Idk I feel like there are lots of options of games to play and this sounds like a compulsion based on a perceived need to prove something

This sounds so miserable man

You're not having fun

[undone tartan]

It’s very hard to quit after putting 60+ hours into something and getting extremely close

Now that I’ve switched to Beo I’m definitely having more fun

[shy plinth]

As long as you're enjoying it

The volume of negativity is kind of hard to keep up with

I hope future runs don't have that kind of reaction for you, it's pretty easy to ruin a game for yourself

[flat flicker]

40 beowulf

Okay im gonna go for 36. Yolo

[mossy zinc]

You kinda live a lot more than once in Hades.

Unless you're mortal.

[bronze viper]

Or mirrorless

[mossy zinc]

No, because even if you die mirrorless, you just live again.

[bronze viper]

MIrrorless + uninstall

[shy plinth]

Make a mod where a death deletes your windows folder

[bronze viper]

Doki doki hades club

[shy plinth]

Now there's a deep cut

[bronze viper]

Just Beowulf.

[mossy zinc]

Hades but every time you lose, you have to donate blood.

@bronze rapids it's a blood price.

Smh.

[bronze rapids]

Something something Price of Midas

[flat flicker]

Man just got smoked by furies twice

Oof

[mossy zinc]

Charon probably gets the blood for cheap from Zagreus and then sells it to Lord Ares at a premium.

[bronze rapids]

yes

[undone tartan]

Do trials have 3+ times the difficulty rating? I just got 5 waves of armored cloner thugs (well it may have been more than 5 but I died)

[eternal hare]

tart trials are 1 wave but thugs have a pretty low spawn limit so it feels like they trickle in very slowly

the difficulty is higher than regular encounters but not excessively so

[solar maple]

in asphodel it is excessive

it's not a multiplier but they do have a significantly higher base difficulty value

same with erebus

[bronze viper]

Elysium feels like a crapshoot. Sometimes the rooms are just kinda bad Elysium rooms.

Nothing particularly crazy though

[eternal hare]

elysium trials are alright

i'll take two waves of guaranteed elites over endless unarmored brightswords

[solar maple]

tart/elysium trials are often good but it's very rare for me to take an asphodel trial

[bronze viper]

You don't like killing 40 elite bloodless?

[eternal hare]

i have vague memories of tail spending 2 minutes IGT in an asphodel trial in his 60-heat lol

[next acorn]

[cursive portal]

Than in Asphodel in that one room(you know the one, with all the lava cracks and single exit)

I hate that room

[bronze viper]

The one with the big peninsula in the middle and 3 small islands around it?

Didn't think Than could spawn there lol

[cursive portal]

oh he can

and he will

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/835125168341778463.gif?v=1

[next acorn]

are there combat rooms he can't?

[eternal hare]

than's eligibility only cares about your biome depth

so if a tile is eligible only in depths prior to when than is eligible then than won't appear in those tiles

[quartz mantle]

Like chamber 1

[jaunty falcon]

Can he appear in the Athena room

[cursive portal]

Huh

I don't ever think I had him in that room

Than in tart chambers 11-12. Than in aspho 18-22. Than in ely 29-34.

[eternal hare]

cgull has a doc in the speedrunning discord with all the rooms and their min/max depths

[nocturne stag]

I've seen him spawn in rooms where most of the ground enemies can spawn on is covered by his weird Aoe ring. Which makes beating him more challenging than normal

[undone tartan]

My capture card arrived today

If I do any 50 heat runs, I’ll record them

[undone tartan]

I’d be very interested in seeing that, if you know where to find it

Actually I think I found it

Unfortunately it appears to be unfinished

There is an image of every Tartarus room (or I think it’s every Tartarus room, can’t be sure though). But there are only a few Asphodel room images and no Elysium room images

There is also no info for Styx although I know the rooms generate much differently there

Still, I’m very curious how it works in Styx as well

Ohh, rooms are not included unless they have a specific restriction on where they can spawn

Well I would have liked to see those rooms anyway, since if I can’t see them there then I’ll forget they exist

Maybe just a separate section for rooms that can spawn anywhere

Idk

Wait nvm I’m blind

Those are all linked at the top of the doc

Still would love to see Styx though

[lime heath]

What's everyone's approach to farming titan bloods early game for newer players? The only successful clear I've had is with the Chaos Shield (lvl 1). I'm about 20 runs in and haven't cleared the game with any of the other weapons. I suspect that further darkness and keys farming will help with the other weapons but some of the aspects that I unlocked are quite underwhelming at low levels (e.g. I have Chiron lvl 2 and I start struggling in Elysium, typically reach Hades with 0-1 DD and lose). Obviously I need to git gud but thoughts on whether I should try to farm titan bloods through shield heats or just try to clear with the other 5 weapons first?

One concern I have with the shield is that I don't think it's making me a better player because it ignores a lot of the Hades mechanics if I just hold shield lol

[gaunt fiber]

Yeah shield will definitely lead you to that lmao
Try another weapon. I remember grinding with nemesis in my early days, the crit felt op and I got a lot of wins in no time (after a very hard fought first win on chaos aspect)

[shy plinth]

20 runs is pretty early on, you'll want to review mirror options and keep unlocking and leveling stuff there

[gaunt fiber]

And it was not maxed at all. Works pretty well

[shy plinth]

Bloods come with time and experience

Once you start chaining clears and finishing prophecies, it'll happen surprisingly fast

We're happy to help here but #h1-builds-and-combat may be a better place to get advice so early in your progression

We play at crazy heat levels here

But of course, happy to answer any questions

[undone tartan]

Yeah this channel is for 32+ heat (generally closer to 40+)

[lime heath]

Oh my bad, I clearly posted in the wrong channel. Meant to do #h1-builds-and-combat !

[shy plinth]

The mirror is often the difference maker both in terms of what you choose and what your levels are

[lime heath]

thanks for the advice though

[shy plinth]

Once you get it maxed it's gonna be a lot easier to clear

[jaunty falcon]

http://imgur.com/a/FeLymVo phase 3, over 3 mins left

[undone tartan]

[gaunt fiber]

not pink enough

[jaunty falcon]

There were 3 aphro boons in the Styx shop

[undone tartan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/892526199669133332/image0.jpg

What’s the pick?

[jaunty falcon]

Bottom

[undone tartan]

I figured

[jaunty falcon]

With FF, ×1.33 damage is better than +39%

[undone tartan]

That’s true

Is it just me or is Snow Burst not that good with CShot?

It doesn’t really feel that good

Like it feels insanely strong without CShot, but it feels kinda meh with it

[jaunty falcon]

Yeah I agree

You're not casting as often with cshot

[undone tartan]

Would it be worth taking Hermes over Demeter in the tart midshop (already got epic frozen touch to sell)?

[jaunty falcon]

I would

[undone tartan]

Ok thanks

Turns out the correct answer was to buy nothing because there was Poseidon in the endshop

Oh well

[undone tartan]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/892534664793833513/image0.jpg

Pray for me

This really could go either way (although I think it’s more likely that I choke it)

But this is definitely the best run I’ve ever had

Other than that Hestia run that died in pretty much the last chamber where I could have realistically lost

Any EM4 tips for Charged Shot + Sudden Rush?

[mossy zinc]

Stay in the bottom right corner if you're not already doing that.

[undone tartan]

Ok

[mossy zinc]

Like not so insistently that you stand in traps to stay there, of course.

[undone tartan]

Should I buy a Prometheus Stone in this well? It’s a very minor choice but it could matter

[undone tartan]

Gotcha

[mossy zinc]

And if he's doing beam attacks, don't make the mistake of standing right behind a pillar.

Have some distance between the pillar and yourself.

[undone tartan]

Wait why? To make sure I don’t get hit by the shockwave?

[mossy zinc]

The arc that he can't attack is the narrowest right at the pillar but widens the more distance you have.

Which means it's much easier to be a step outside if you're hugging to the pillar.

[undone tartan]

Ah ok

Yeah that makes sense

Does Mirage Shot count as a Poseidon boon for FF?

[mossy zinc]

No, I don't think so.

[undone tartan]

Ok. Rush Delivery, Killing Freeze, and Sweet Surrender are the boons I should look for in Styx, in that order, right? (With this build)

[daring hedge]

play it similarly to rama; each hit is going to hit hard, so don't overdo it

empty dashes are your friend

[hallow garnet]

question, what’s an empty dash

also you got this pancaek

[daring hedge]

dashing without a dash-strike so you retain iframes

[mossy zinc]

I would take whichever has higher rarity between Broken Resolve and Sweet Surrender.

[undone tartan]

Gotcha. Thanks Tailesque

Oh yeah BR would also be good

[mossy zinc]

And take her Call over either.

[undone tartan]

Oh true!

I’m gonna need a 2 or 3 sack still

Got a 2-sack. 5:30 entering Hades fight. Here we go

[hallow garnet]

destroy him

Send him back to the pool in shame

[mossy zinc]

Above all, focus on a clean fight. Don't rush.

[daring hedge]

be patient and try not to take unnecessary hits due to rushing it! charged and sudden beo stronk

[undone tartan]

Nope

Died

Phase 3

I took 150 from a trap. That’s what did me in

In early phase 3

[mossy zinc]

That's pretty good. Bottom right corner went well?

[undone tartan]

Yeah I guess

[mossy zinc]

The urns unfortunately are just something you gotta accept will happen sometimes.

You got there again and you got to phase 3 again. I would say that's good progress.

Doing some practice runs with just LC4 EM4 FO2 HS TD3 could help you be more comfortable with navigating the fight around the urns to lower the chance of that happening again.

[quartz mantle]

Should have done 49 heat smh

[daring hedge]

the frequency and density of urn spawns does get pretty ridiculous in phase 3

[undone tartan]

Yeah I sure does

[mossy zinc]

The best strategy for phase 3 I've found is have enough damage that you don't need to play it for long.

[undone tartan]

Well it took me 3 minutes to get to phase 3

[mossy zinc]

You can also cut down the time you need for phase 3 by 100% if you do EM3.

[undone tartan]

I did 30ish runs of EM3 RI2 instead

I don’t think I ever even made it to Elysium

[mossy zinc]

Smart. You avoid the Hades fight altogether by ending the run before Elysium.

[flat flicker]

[ripe ermine]

You’ll get there. EM4 hard.

[rose condor]

is there like a recommended heat progression order while im still leveling weapons and mirror and stuff up?

[ripe ermine]

#h1-high-heat-strategies message

[quartz mantle]

Just try out different heat options

[rose condor]

ty

[quartz mantle]

On their own they’re not very dangerous, they only get really deadly when you start to combine the harder pacts

[flat flicker]

Yeah, @rose condor

Oh I did that wrong

But the message I replied to has the link you want

[shy plinth]

:)

Thanks y'all for linking that

[daring hedge]

you can also opt to start learning FO1/2 earlier and swap out other pact options of favor of it

[mossy zinc]

Just keep in mind that any kind of recommended progression will be biased. I'd encourage you to experiment and make your own experiences with all the pacts and how they interact.

[undone tartan]

But don’t “experiment” with Routine Inspection unless you’re looking for an extra challenge

[mossy zinc]

Also never listen to UnholyPancake. Ever.

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

RI4 is a great pact for new players.

8 free Heat.

You also don't have to worry about upgrading your mirror.

[undone tartan]

I beat 16 heat with AP2 and RI4. Therefore it’s probably optimal

[mossy zinc]

Or which mirror side to choose.

[mossy zinc]

No. Not if you recommend it.

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

There was a chance it would be, but not anymore.

[steel widget]

What would the unholy pancake recommend for a 40 heat gamer that still hasn't beaten it, but has tried for 250+ attempts

[undone tartan]

I recommend listening to Nyaa, she’s very experienced and knows a lot about the game

[steel widget]

Thank you Pancake

[undone tartan]

#h1-victory-boasting message
This pact

[steel widget]

You take Jury summons over trap damage?

[undone tartan]

Unless you’re using Rama, then maybe swap one JS and one CF for DC2 (if you’re comfortable with it)

[undone tartan]

For sure

Except on Hestia

[mossy zinc]

UnholyPancake is a coward, so yes.

[steel widget]

Because that's basically the pact I settled on, but with trap damage for faster hp resets in Asmodel

[undone tartan]

I only have to lose one run to a 150 damage pot to know that’s not worth turning on at 40 heat

[undone tartan]

You’re saving yourself like 3 seconds

[mossy zinc]

See, just don't lose a run to a 150 damage pot. Easy.

[steel widget]

Thank you Nyaa

Tomorrow I go back to grinding another 10+ attempts and win because of that advice

But I should probably turn it down a bit, because I've gotten pretty rusty at the Hades fight

[mossy zinc]

Taking HS at 40 is way more common than not taking it.

40 Heat meta is HL5 LC4 EM3 BP2 MM UC FO2 HS TD3 and then a combination of CF, JS, and AP.

[undone tartan]

In my personal opinion, AP at 40 heat is a bad idea (unless maybe you’re speedrunning? Idk the speedrun meta)

[left prism]

aspect dependant ig, didnt bother me much with rama

[mossy zinc]

CF1 AP1 is meta for speedruns and actually quite consistent either way.

[shy plinth]

Some aspects roll with it just fine and some really don't

[mossy zinc]

AP1 doesn't hurt too much.

[shy plinth]

I mean if you're on beo it sucks

[mossy zinc]

Not really.

[shy plinth]

At a certain skill level at 40 you can still kinda do whatever

But I would doubt that beo players would say to go ap generally

[mossy zinc]

Mirage Shot Beowulf is a 3 boon build.

[shy plinth]

That is technically true

And there are quite a few aspects that just don't care if the skill is there

[mossy zinc]

AP1 doesn't hurt your build very much. It often just takes a little longer to come together.

AP2 hurts a lot.

[undone tartan]

AP1 also hurts poms on Beo

And hammers

With 4 boons, you have only a 50% chance to be able to Pom your cast with AP1 (without a reroll)

[shy plinth]

I guess my first 32 clear ever was ap1

Mostly about refining the core skill of hades up to 40 anyway

Playing fast without getting hit

[undone tartan]

I have epic quick favor and I have smoldering air. Is the QF worth just selling for 155 gold (I already sold a bad boon so I don’t have to sell it, and I’m headed into Styx)

[mossy zinc]

If you only have 4 boons on Beowulf and all 4 can be pommed, you most likely either have decent pom targets that aren't your Cast or made a mistake somewhere.

No, don't sell Quick Favor.

[undone tartan]

A Pom on other things does very little compared to a Pom on cast

[weak gyro]

My god Dionysus Cast is bad without Ice Wine.

[undone tartan]

Nah

Where it’s good it’s good and where it’s bad it’s bad. Ice Wine makes it better where it’s good and makes it alright where it’s bad, but it doesn’t make a massive difference imo

[mossy zinc]

Trippy Shot is great in any build.

[shy plinth]

I dunno

I don't think it's great with beo

In fact I've never seen a beo trippy shot build

Must be bad

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

There's a bug that changes the text for, I think, Flood Flare and Trippy Flare to Flood Shot and Trippy Shot, respectively.

[shy plinth]

Oh no

Out technicaled by Nyaanyaa

Guess I shouldn't be surprised

[mossy zinc]

You thought you had me.

But you were already defeated.

[shy plinth]

I should've known

[mossy zinc]

The naive don't know what they don't know. 👸🏽

[undone tartan]

Actually, every person doesn’t know what they don’t know

[flat flicker]

[shy plinth]

I don't know if that's true

[undone tartan]

[mossy zinc]

How naive. 👸🏽

https://tenor.com/view/disney-descendants3-descendants-mal-ben-gif-15647362

[flat flicker]

[undone tartan]

Died to phase 2 this time (no ToSD)

With ToSD I would have definitely got to phase 3 at the very least

[shy plinth]

What is tosd

Oh patty?

[undone tartan]

Touch of Styx Dark

[shy plinth]

Yeah patty

[undone tartan]

Yeah patty

[shy plinth]

Jinx

You owe me a Dr pepper

[undone tartan]

Turns out… Charged Shot Beo with a 190 damage cast absolutely obliterates Tartarus enemies

[weak gyro]

It's hard to hit with that lob. And if enemies have shields or armor its sort of wasted.

[undone tartan]

What?

Oh it’s not Trippy Flare

It’s a lvl 3 epic passion flare

Ok I know I’ve already done one of these today so I apologize but…

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/892563247725703198/image0.jpg

Do I take the attack or reroll?

This chaos gate has one exit

+75% is really quite huge, especially with Deadly Strike

However, the downside it potentially pretty bad (I’m gonna take conch into Asphodel and don’t want to take a random god here and end up with a 5 god pool)

And I could also get something much better if I reroll

[ripe ermine]

Oooof I think roll but barely. Attack is nice to have but rushes already have +100% and Enshrouded is a “Dionysus take the wheel” choice

[undone tartan]

I bet Nyaa wouldn’t mind if I ping her, seeing how much she pings other people…

[undone tartan]

@mossy zinc what do you think (I hope you don’t mind the ping, I’m just interested in hearing your opinion on this)

[ripe ermine]

Oh you have 5 rolls. I’d probably roll.

[mossy zinc]

Attack.

[undone tartan]

Interesting

Two conflicting opinions from two very good players

[ripe ermine]

Nail biter for me haha. That’s a beefy attack. If you got a pair of roilings on the roll that’d be a bad day. And a possible 5-god pool isn’t the worst thing.

If it was early in Tart I’d take the attack no question. Dash-strike would one-shot half the biome

[undone tartan]

So does my lvl 3 passion flare

[quartz mantle]

Enshrouded gaming

Take the strike

[undone tartan]

Baj says take it

[ripe ermine]

Yeah I’m coming around to that also

[undone tartan]

I took it

I got 4 1-exit rooms in a row

[hallow garnet]

nice

[undone tartan]

I’m always surprised by how cheap braid is

It’s less than half the cost of Prometheus Stone for arguably a better effect

[solar maple]

I very often buy braids even when I'm not playing cast builds lol

sometimes even when I don't have a cast boon

[mossy zinc]

Sometimes even when you're not playing Hades.

[undone tartan]

Can I send one more screenshot? I’ve got an important decision that I’m not too confident on

[mossy zinc]

I don't see a rule against it.

[undone tartan]

Alright, I just don’t want to be annoying

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/892569802424594463/image0.jpg

That’s Poseidon in the top left corner

There’s also an exit leading to an Artemis bossfight but that’s definitely not the right choice

Chaos is probably better than shop

[mossy zinc]

Chaos Gate.

[undone tartan]

And I’ll probably be able to get a Poseidon bossfight from the chaos gate

Ok thanks

[solar maple]

come to think of it I was thinking of getting a braid

[mossy zinc]

See? m never wrong.

[hallow garnet]

true

[undone tartan]

Chaos gave me trap damage, died to Lernie.

[mossy zinc]

I find the person who is annoyed by that to be a lot more concerning than the one humbly asking for help and trying to improve.

[hallow garnet]

yeah I mean you can just not answer

[hallow garnet]

Sad

[undone tartan]

It was such an insanely good run too

I had mirage prereqs and everything

Lvl 4 epic passion flare

5x divine dashes

[hallow garnet]

Sad

[undone tartan]

Very very sad

[mossy zinc]

I have a feeling you probably unnecessarily rushed the fight?

[hardy garden]

i need to grind my new file up

[mossy zinc]

That will come with experience. Which is slow to gain in boss fights if you can't make practice saves.

[undone tartan]

Possibly. Although you kinda have to rush when the 6 heads spawn and most of the floor becomes lava

+8% cast damage from

[mossy zinc]

That's the run.

I can do like up to 30 or something fights against Lernie in an hour. If you don't have a practice save, you could maybe do like.. 7? At best. In the same time.

Probably more than 30 because the fight doesn't take 2 minutes.

[undone tartan]

I’ve done a whole lot of EM2 HS Lernie

If I have a 3-god pool leaving Tartarus, and none of those gods are Artemis or Poseidon, it’s not worth going for Mirage Shot right?

I have Zeus call so I’ll go for SAir for sure

I also have divine dash

Do I take Athena keepsake and look for DDs?

Do I take Zeus and look for SAir (or settle for billowing)?

Do I look for mirage anyway and hope to get it in late Elysium?

Do I take lucky tooth for Asphodel insurance?

[solar maple]

I would force dem

[undone tartan]

It’s charged shot Beo though

I don’t feel like Snow Burst is nearly as good with CShot

[mossy zinc]

I would take Chthonic Coin Purse over Lucky Tooth in Asphodel.

[undone tartan]

Also I have Family Favorite (which admittedly may be incorrect)

[mossy zinc]

In my experience, taking a defensive keepsake in Asphodel is a bad idea.

[solar maple]

yeah snow burst is less good with cshot

still might force dem though lmao

[mossy zinc]

Cosmic Egg is a decent option, too.

[undone tartan]

Yeah that makes sense. I do have 378 gold though)

[undone tartan]

Really? Why?

[mossy zinc]

Epic Cast damage gud.

I'd probably take the Frostbitten Horn too.

[undone tartan]

Alright I’ll take the horn

[mossy zinc]

Blame @solar maple if it doesn't work.

[daring hedge]

nourished soul here we come

[undone tartan]

Good thing it’s AP1

[daring hedge]

true lol

[mossy zinc]

Nourished Soul, Rare Crop. Take your pick.

[solar maple]

if crop hits common/rare cast it's a fine/good boon

[undone tartan]

Rare crop would be alright if my cast was common. It’s epic though

[mossy zinc]

Rare Crop on an Epic Cast is still alright tbh. The main concern is EM4, and it will be Heroic by then.

Not great, but.. alright.

[undone tartan]

That’s only 16 damage

[mossy zinc]

Base damage.

[left prism]

late but hope is not cast replace/nourished soul

[solar maple]

can just roll it's not that bad

but I really like snow burst or dem attack on beo

into killing freeze

helps a ton vs em4

[mossy zinc]

You can roll Icy Flare/Nourished Soul into Icy Flare/Nourished Soul.

[solar maple]

technically, yes

[mossy zinc]

A cause to celebrate. The rare time when Nourished Soul is a good pick despite LC4.

[daring hedge]

RI0 AP1 is def pretty lenient, i doubt dem would really put you in a bad spot ultimately here

[bronze rapids]

my best Demeter rerolling experience is LC4 Nourished Soul -> Nourished Soul -> Crystal Beam (replace) in Elysium

[mossy zinc]

Ah yes, attempting flattery so she won't screw you over in your next AP2 run.

[daring hedge]

i love how your name completes this anecdote

[bronze rapids]

yes

gave up instantly

[mossy zinc]

That is the average AP2 Lady Demeter experience.

[daring hedge]

i think even if i was as nice as possible to grandma she would still give me her homemade unsellable gyros

[mossy zinc]

Because you are so nice to her.

For her favorite grandson.

[undone tartan]

Breaching rush is better than Minotaur rush right?

[mossy zinc]

Helps with EM4 summons.

And nasty BP2 chambers.

Minotaur Rush can do a lot of damage, though.

[undone tartan]

It’s chamber 28 so I anticipate a few of those

I have deadly strike btw

And I’m also not familiar with Minotaur rush at all

[mossy zinc]

But you end up overcharging for your Casts with Minotaur Rush.

[undone tartan]

Too bad AP crossed out FG

So I should take Breaching?

[daring hedge]

i'd say yes

minotaur is a bit more niche and would mostly recommend as a second hammer if you had sudden rush first

[undone tartan]

Gotcha

Thanks!

[daring hedge]

but breaching is just useful for a lot of content throughout the run

[solar maple]

Yeah I like breaching a lot

[undone tartan]

Well since this channel is now #helping-unholy, uhh

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/868852801663565824/892581898285629480/image0.jpg

Do I sell Hunter’s Mark of Heart Rend?

(Yes, Artemis gave me heart rend instead of Mirage Shot I’m very sad)

[shy plinth]

My instinct is rend

[solar maple]

I'd sell heart rend

mark is a better boon and you get 400 bucks

[undone tartan]

Heart Rend is great for damage but I also kinda want gold for Styx so I can hope to get Mirage

[shy plinth]

I honestly don't think it's close

Mark is so good

[undone tartan]

Even for EM4?

[solar maple]

only argument for selling mark is higher mirage chance imo

[undone tartan]

Isn’t mark more likely to show up than HR anyway?

[solar maple]

and you are pretty likely to get an extra look at mirage with those extra 400 bucks

[undone tartan]

Alright I’m sold

And so is Heart Rend

[shy plinth]

Eyyyyy

[undone tartan]

Thanks for the help

I was probably gonna make the wrong call there tbh

[solar maple]

the way duos work is it rolls for "will this be a duo/legendary", then rolls among the available duos/legendaries

so having HR available does lower your odds at mirage

mark also does but in a more convoluted way

[undone tartan]

That gold is also great because it gives me a possibility of getting rush delivery

Or Smoldering Air

Oooh do I buy Yarn for 126 gold?

I now have 561

Out of the 5 gods in my pool, 4 of them could offer me a duo that I really want

But I’m also out of rolls

I’m gonna take a snack break and think about that one, let me know if you have advice on it

[daring hedge]

heart rend with this setup isn't worth it

[solar maple]

the thing is without mark you aren't really going to crit that much, so it's just increasing your attack damage by a bit

and the attack is only 15% crit

admittedly the best fight for mark (heroes) has already passed

[undone tartan]

Well I also have epic PP

So my cast crits would be chunky

[undone tartan]

I hate they spear throws will go through my shield if they’re close enough

That’s so sad

I took over 300 damage from that happening

If that didn’t happen, that would have been an easy win

Died second half of phase 3

That’s my 3rd death to Hades in the last 4 hours

[ripe ermine]

Yeah, that’s burned in my muscle memory. Swipe block swipe block rush the heck out of there and get ready to dash

[undone tartan]

Charged Shot moment

[ripe ermine]

Oh no

[undone tartan]

I just had to release after the second swipe and dash for dear life

Worked a few times

But it often didn’t work. So I took the risk a few times

Stupid stupid thing to do

I did have 5 divine dashes

Too bad the entire Styx shop was 4 poms

[ripe ermine]

You’re making it to superdad phase 3 repeatedly. You’ll get ‘im

[undone tartan]

If I’d had Smoldering Air or Mirage Shot I would have won (and I had yarn)

But the Styx shop was literally 4 poms

Actually if one of those poms had hit my cast I might have got it

My cast was only lvl 3

[ripe ermine]

Time to shake things up. Egg start next?

Ride the chaos

[undone tartan]

Had mirage and a lvl 8 epic cast. Got a 4 sack

[ripe ermine]

Good phase 1 practice time

[undone tartan]

Alright I’m done for the day

5-6 hours of attempts

4 EM4 deaths, one of which was to time

I’ll keep trying tomorrow

[mossy zinc]

Don't block first, dash second. Dash through the swipes, then turn around and block the throw. And if you can dash behind the pillar, that's another layer of safety (I'd still probably block just in case). One of the advantages of fighting him in the bottom right corner is that the right pillar is always close.

[undone tartan]

I tend to block whenever he winds up with an attack

Or when I’m at a distance and don’t know what’s coming next so I want to be safe

So I’m usually already blocking when he begins the swipes

[mossy zinc]

As you've noticed, that can leave you in a bad position with Charged Shot.

[undone tartan]

Yes it can

[mossy zinc]

Dashing through the swipes will keep you safe from the spin, block the throw, and put you into position to attack him as he's recovering from his combo.

[undone tartan]

So I should get out of the habit of blocking whenever I feel unsure or unsafe? Or is that fine, but I just need to release the rush and instantly dash away if it looks like he’s beginning that combo?

[solar maple]

if you are panic blocking I would really recommend not loading a cast so you can release + dash to get out of a sticky situation

[undone tartan]

Yeah I don’t load a cast

[solar maple]

unless you don't have cshot then you can just invincibly fly to the other side of the map

[undone tartan]

Yeah ofc

[honest kernel]

@hardy garden @pseudo flame il be recording my 16 heat run today

ill send it here

[undone tartan]

Damage control is always worse than you think it is (unless you’re very experienced and have a good understanding of the pact)

[honest kernel]

how tho?

like

its just one hit

[undone tartan]

That’s a lot. One extra hit for every enemy? Plus, what if you want to dash upper (since you said you use fists)? You have to attack first

Also makes fiery presence not really work

[honest kernel]

my fist gameplay is basically just attack and dash attack so

i understand fiery presence ig

[undone tartan]

Do you take Zeus attack?

[honest kernel]

zeus or ares yeah

[undone tartan]

If you’re doing Ares then definitely don’t do DC2

[honest kernel]

yeah im talking dc1 here

ive never used dc2

[undone tartan]

I only take DC1 when I’m also doing DC2

But that’s just because I hate DC so I only do it on aspects that can really handle it well and at very high heats

[mossy zinc]

Malphon can handle DC better than most with the right attack boons, but people still greatly underestimate it.

[undone tartan]

It’s still a bad idea below 32 heat or even below 40 imo

Maybe with Zeus start it’s alright at 32

[honest kernel]

well i just thought since malphon is fast the one hit per enemy isnt gonna hurt it that much

mabye in elysium or styx it could

[undone tartan]

But on Demeter (aka the only decent fist aspect), you really want to be able to dash upper undamaged enemies to 1-shot them when it’s empowered

[next acorn]

underestimating DC is very easy

[undone tartan]

Everyone underestimates DC

Odds are it’s hurting you way more than you think it is

[honest kernel]

you could just attack once then dash upper-

[undone tartan]

That’s like a full second slower

That time adds up

[honest kernel]

its still damage

[undone tartan]

Ok? You could do RI4 and still “have health”

That’s not an argument

[next acorn]

you can still use AP2 and just get boons

[undone tartan]

Yeah exactly

[honest kernel]

i mean yeah

[next acorn]

just do what magnil did for his 50 heat talos

AP2 ME

[undone tartan]

Yes, you can still do damage to enemies when they have DC. Obviously. But you’re gonna be doing a lot less damage

And it’s gonna force you to play suboptimally

[honest kernel]

i guess im thinking bosses wise

because like

[undone tartan]

Yeah it doesn’t really affect bosses other than making it way harder to Meg both heroes

[next acorn]

It's free on Bosses that dont start with a H and end with ades

because DC on the skulls suck

[honest kernel]

fr

[undone tartan]

Oh true

But also Beowulf

[honest kernel]

thats the only roadblock i had with dc when i used it for 1 heat

[undone tartan]

Lmao DC for 1 heat? That’s definitely wrong

[honest kernel]

i didnt know what else to do so

now i use like em and fo

[night parcel]

fo??

what

[honest kernel]

i meant tight deadline im dumb

[night parcel]

bruh

[honest kernel]

[night parcel]

I have never tried fo yet

but looks brutal from the description

[honest kernel]

fo seems.. yeah

[next acorn]

FO is hard to adjust to but good to get used to if you want to push heat

[mossy zinc]

DC1 with Curse of Agony and DC2 with Lightning Strike are alright.

[undone tartan]

But basically, you are definitely underestimating DC if you’re using it below 20 heat on any aspect, or if you ever call it free heat

One of the dumbest things I’ve said is that DC2 is free heat on Eris

Which I now know is just so false

We’ve all underestimated DC at one time or another tbh

[mossy zinc]

Try not to use "dumb" for things like that, though.

[undone tartan]

“Incorrect”, then

[honest kernel]

i guess dc seemed easy to me because i was thinking of it on bosses

other then hades

[undone tartan]

Well think of normal rooms as well

[honest kernel]

yeah i realize that now

[undone tartan]

Especially if you’re using TD3

[honest kernel]

im not that far in heat so im using TD1 most of the time

could probably use TD2

[night parcel]

td2 is easy

[honest kernel]

my times are like sub 20

[night parcel]

td3 is hard for me

[night parcel]

then u can use td3 lol

[honest kernel]

oof tight deadline pretty hard '

[undone tartan]

TD3 takes practice

[mossy zinc]

Good reason to keep on TD3.

[undone tartan]

Actually true

[honest kernel]

ill stick to TD2 since they arent consistently sub 20 like sometimes ill get 26 minutes or something

[mossy zinc]

As is everything I say. 👸🏽

[night parcel]

my fastest clears are always spear for some reason

[honest kernel]

gun for me

or i guess the rail

[night parcel]

flurry jab too good

[undone tartan]

Flurry Jab does definitely result in fast clear times

[honest kernel]

sea storm poseidon dash eris aspect too good

basically the speedrun build

[undone tartan]

Ehh sea storm isn’t that good for speedrun Eris. I mean it’s not bad, but it’s not really necessary

[honest kernel]

i usually get it off to the side yeah

[undone tartan]

Especially since Tidal Dash isn’t even a prerequisite for it, so you’d have to have a pretty useless boon to get offered it (Poseidon’s Aid is a great boon but not good for speedruns)

[honest kernel]

i just get like cast or something

[undone tartan]

Exactly, useless boon

[honest kernel]

im not trying to speedrun im just using gun

[undone tartan]

Plus, any of the Poseidon tier 2s are better than sea storm anyway

Especially Breaking Wave

[honest kernel]

well i have school tmr and its 12:30 here

gn

sleep time

[undone tartan]

I also have school tmr and it’s 1:30 for me

[honest kernel]

the farthes heat ive reached now is 13

i am currently on my 16 heat run

[hardy garden]

school.....

[next acorn]

School

[honest kernel]

offline class start from monday for me

what does the dusa emoji mean

?

[night parcel]

means dusa

[undone tartan]

[next acorn]

[honest kernel]

confused akuma noises

tell me what it means or i throw cheese burger patties on you

i am mcdonald worker after all

[mossy zinc]

[honest kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/throwing-throw-gif-10228521

[gaunt fiber]

On the Speedrun discord it's a sign of congratulations. Here, it has a slightly more ironic tone.

[honest kernel]

I always knew yugi got mah back

lmao

[honest kernel]

16 heat is hard

the farthest i got was styx

but dad wrecked me

[nocturne stag]

Wait Dusa has a meaning? I thought it was just "the funny emote we spam"

[hoary pasture]

Could be your pact, but if you got that far then should come eventually

[nocturne stag]

[daring hedge]

well dusa is funny emote we spam but astaos is correct in that it gets used for deadpan a lot lol

[nocturne stag]

I see

[honest kernel]

how do i unlock arthu?

i have 5 titan blood on the sword

[hoary pasture]

Check the pinned message in #h1-story-discussion

[undone tartan]

To pick up the meanings of a server’s emotes, you often just have to see the context where people use it

[trim sigil]

I think the meaning of this one is similar to 🙃

[undone tartan]

Not in my experience

[trim sigil]

Well, what's your take then?

It's a good time to piece the opinions together anyway

[undone tartan]

As Tailesque said, it’s used to convey a deadpan tone

But also